New Third Coast
September 9, 2013 9:34 PM Subscribe
We're a couple of months away from the gales of November, but it's already getting a bit cold on Lake Superior. You've all heard Gordon Lightfoot's ballad about the Edmund Fitzgerald.
More recently a group out of Maple City, Michigan composed another ballad about the sinking of the Fitzgerald, "Captain McSorley" (you'll need to click the play button).
More of the New Third Coast's songs can be heard here. If you want to hear them live, you'll probably need to hit one of the bars in Maple City.
It would be worth the trip to hear them sing "Halfway to Mackinaw" which, for some reason can NOT be found online.
More recently a group out of Maple City, Michigan composed another ballad about the sinking of the Fitzgerald, "Captain McSorley" (you'll need to click the play button).
More of the New Third Coast's songs can be heard here. If you want to hear them live, you'll probably need to hit one of the bars in Maple City.
It would be worth the trip to hear them sing "Halfway to Mackinaw" which, for some reason can NOT be found online.
It's the Witch of November, and heaven help you if the Witch comes early and you're not in sheltered waters.
You can joke about the weather on the Great Lakes if you've never been caught in them. If you have, you don't. It's such smooth, sheltered water -- how could it possibly rise up and break you?
Whitefish Point -- which claimed the Edmund Fitzgerald -- had taken 239 ships before the Fitz went down. Easily 6000 ships have fallen to the Great Lakes, some 30,000 lives -- and that's a low estimate, and only in the last 150 years. Nobody really paid attention, before.
Superior, it's said, never gives up its dead when the gales of November come early.
posted by eriko at 9:57 PM on September 9, 2013 [14 favorites]
You can joke about the weather on the Great Lakes if you've never been caught in them. If you have, you don't. It's such smooth, sheltered water -- how could it possibly rise up and break you?
Whitefish Point -- which claimed the Edmund Fitzgerald -- had taken 239 ships before the Fitz went down. Easily 6000 ships have fallen to the Great Lakes, some 30,000 lives -- and that's a low estimate, and only in the last 150 years. Nobody really paid attention, before.
Superior, it's said, never gives up its dead when the gales of November come early.
posted by eriko at 9:57 PM on September 9, 2013 [14 favorites]
I don't know anything about ships or sailing or water or stuff, and I'm pretty sure it's because I heard this song when I was very small.
Still gives me chills.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:02 PM on September 9, 2013
Still gives me chills.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:02 PM on September 9, 2013
What a great song, but so tough to listen to. Anyone know if there are still iron ore freighters traversing the great lakes, or has all the ore been depleted?
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:36 PM on September 9, 2013
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:36 PM on September 9, 2013
I saw freighters and active taconite mining while hiking the Superior Trail about 6 years ago.
posted by TrialByMedia at 11:00 PM on September 9, 2013
posted by TrialByMedia at 11:00 PM on September 9, 2013
I grew up next door to a Great Lakes ship engineer who had sailed the Atlantic during World War II. He always said the Great Lakes were scarier because they were much more unpredictable. One minute you're sailing along minding your own business, the next some horrible storm has come up and rolled over you.
posted by etaoin at 11:04 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by etaoin at 11:04 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Anyone know if there are still iron ore freighters traversing the great lakes, or has all the ore been depleted?
According to the LCA report I linked to below there were around 45 million net tons of iron ore moved over the lakes in 2012.
2012 Annual Report of Lake Carriers’ Association
1000 footers page
Lake freighters
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 11:11 PM on September 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
According to the LCA report I linked to below there were around 45 million net tons of iron ore moved over the lakes in 2012.
2012 Annual Report of Lake Carriers’ Association
1000 footers page
Lake freighters
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 11:11 PM on September 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Great Lakes & Seaway Shipping Online : Fleet Photo Gallery
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 11:13 PM on September 9, 2013
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 11:13 PM on September 9, 2013
InsertNiftyNameHere: There are still a billion steel mills in Hamilton, ON, and most of them are still in business, so they must get the ore somehow. You still see cargo ships from both Hamilton and Burlington, ON where I grew up.
Also AElfwine Evenstar has a much better source on preview.
posted by Canageek at 11:33 PM on September 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also AElfwine Evenstar has a much better source on preview.
posted by Canageek at 11:33 PM on September 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Indeed, there's a company that concluded a backroom deal to rewrite the entire mining legislative code in Wisconsin just so they could open a mine. Surveying is all that's happening now, though.
The driver of iron ore demand today is China. It doesn't fly there.
For a long time Duluth-Superior was considered the world's largest iron ore port, but from figures out there, it is now far surpassed by Pilbara in Australia.
posted by dhartung at 11:37 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
The driver of iron ore demand today is China. It doesn't fly there.
For a long time Duluth-Superior was considered the world's largest iron ore port, but from figures out there, it is now far surpassed by Pilbara in Australia.
posted by dhartung at 11:37 PM on September 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Many thanks to all for responses to my question about whether ore freighters are still operating on the great lakes.
Also, dhartung pretty much nailed my assumptions. They don't call the former "steel cities" of the USA the "rust belt" for no reason. Glad to hear it's not all been depleted, but I suppose that's only a matter of time.
Also, I'd like to thank AElfwine Evenstar and Canageek for the info you provided. I'll have to dig through that in the near future when I have the time.
MeFi is outstanding! Give yourselves a huge round of applause and thanks!
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 11:53 PM on September 9, 2013
Also, dhartung pretty much nailed my assumptions. They don't call the former "steel cities" of the USA the "rust belt" for no reason. Glad to hear it's not all been depleted, but I suppose that's only a matter of time.
Also, I'd like to thank AElfwine Evenstar and Canageek for the info you provided. I'll have to dig through that in the near future when I have the time.
MeFi is outstanding! Give yourselves a huge round of applause and thanks!
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 11:53 PM on September 9, 2013
It would be worth the trip to hear them sing "Halfway to Mackinaw" which, for some reason can NOT be found online.
It's available here*
(Love those Michigan accents. So distinct.)
*Presumably legally.
posted by madajb at 12:46 AM on September 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's available here*
(Love those Michigan accents. So distinct.)
*Presumably legally.
posted by madajb at 12:46 AM on September 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
I grew up in Duluth MN and my father worked for the Navy, with an office down on the waterfront. I used to spend a lot of time watching ships as a child, and traveling with him to various sailor's bars and clubs. (he was a recruiter.) my extended family all worked in Mining on the Iron Range, as northern MN is known.
There's still mining, although it fluctuates due to a changed market, and certainly it's not what it was before. However production yields per person are much higher so the correlation between employment and production arent the same as they used to be. There's a lot of hope for regrowth in this as there is still massive amounts of ore underground there, but that seems unlikely as tourism outstrips mining for local economic growth.
Duluth is still a working port and receives numerous ships a day, but nothing like it did before. The waterfront is no longer full of bars and strip clubs and flophouses, instead it's been redeveloped with expensive but bland hotels and boutique shops and other tourist stuff. The first time I returned home after many years I found myself in tears at the lost history and reality of the place, but I guess this an experience everyone has growing up and returning home as an adult.
Lake superior can throw massive waves, and northern MN is the coldest region in the continental US, so storms there can be pretty serious. I still remember the foghorns booming at night, echoing over the city, audible in my childhood bedroom miles away from the shore.
posted by EricGjerde at 1:09 AM on September 10, 2013 [6 favorites]
There's still mining, although it fluctuates due to a changed market, and certainly it's not what it was before. However production yields per person are much higher so the correlation between employment and production arent the same as they used to be. There's a lot of hope for regrowth in this as there is still massive amounts of ore underground there, but that seems unlikely as tourism outstrips mining for local economic growth.
Duluth is still a working port and receives numerous ships a day, but nothing like it did before. The waterfront is no longer full of bars and strip clubs and flophouses, instead it's been redeveloped with expensive but bland hotels and boutique shops and other tourist stuff. The first time I returned home after many years I found myself in tears at the lost history and reality of the place, but I guess this an experience everyone has growing up and returning home as an adult.
Lake superior can throw massive waves, and northern MN is the coldest region in the continental US, so storms there can be pretty serious. I still remember the foghorns booming at night, echoing over the city, audible in my childhood bedroom miles away from the shore.
posted by EricGjerde at 1:09 AM on September 10, 2013 [6 favorites]
Been to the museum at Whitefish Point. It's pretty cool. The whole area is really beautiful.
posted by professor plum with a rope at 1:47 AM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by professor plum with a rope at 1:47 AM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
madajb, thanks for finding "Halfway to Mackinaw", it's one of my favorites and I hadn't been able to find it online... It's worth a listen folks.
posted by HuronBob at 4:56 AM on September 10, 2013
posted by HuronBob at 4:56 AM on September 10, 2013
It's not about the resources being depleted, it is that old physical plant and higher wages cannot compete with people doing it cheaper, with more modern gear, elsewhere.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:16 AM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Meatbomb at 5:16 AM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
I collect books on shipwrecks and have read hundreds of accounts of maritime disasters.
For a number of reasons, Great Lakes wrecks are particularly cruel. Things sink faster in fresh water; many ships simply went missing in the record books because they sank too quickly to send a distress call. Given its size and the turbulence of the seas, the vessel likely was wrenched apart; its final moments must have been terrifying for the crew.
posted by kinnakeet at 5:19 AM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
For a number of reasons, Great Lakes wrecks are particularly cruel. Things sink faster in fresh water; many ships simply went missing in the record books because they sank too quickly to send a distress call. Given its size and the turbulence of the seas, the vessel likely was wrenched apart; its final moments must have been terrifying for the crew.
posted by kinnakeet at 5:19 AM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
Duluth is still a working port and receives numerous ships a day, but nothing like it did before. The waterfront is no longer full of bars and strip clubs and flophouses, instead it's been redeveloped with expensive but bland hotels and boutique shops and other tourist stuff. The first time I returned home after many years I found myself in tears at the lost history and reality of the place, but I guess this an experience everyone has growing up and returning home as an adult.
True all of that, but on the plus side we are at least no longer a godforsaken waste town on the verge of collapse as it appeared in the 80s.
Yeah taconite is still a going concern around here.
Radio transmission reporting the loss of the Fitz.
Here are a few pretty mild Superior storm in Duluth.
posted by edgeways at 5:33 AM on September 10, 2013 [3 favorites]
True all of that, but on the plus side we are at least no longer a godforsaken waste town on the verge of collapse as it appeared in the 80s.
Yeah taconite is still a going concern around here.
Radio transmission reporting the loss of the Fitz.
Here are a few pretty mild Superior storm in Duluth.
posted by edgeways at 5:33 AM on September 10, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'll second the comment that the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum at Whitefish Point is a neat place.... Well worth the trip if you're anywhere close by.
Also, this audio between the Coast Guard and the Arthur M. Anderson at the time of the sinking.
posted by HuronBob at 5:33 AM on September 10, 2013
Also, this audio between the Coast Guard and the Arthur M. Anderson at the time of the sinking.
posted by HuronBob at 5:33 AM on September 10, 2013
Having a cabin right off of St. Mary's River on Drummond Island near Detour, I can attest that there is very little more awe inspiring than having a thousand footer meander up that narrow passage to Sault Ste. Marie on its way back to Duluth, towering high over the water because its empty after delivering a previous load of taconite from the seemingly endless Mesabi range. It was that iron ore that got America through World War II.
posted by coachfortner at 5:41 AM on September 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by coachfortner at 5:41 AM on September 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
dhartung: "Indeed, there's a company that concluded a backroom deal to rewrite the entire mining legislative code in Wisconsin just so they could open a mine."
I read that right after following Aelfwine's link on 1000-footers. One of which has been re-christened "American Integrity".
How about that.
(What is it with the re-named ships getting cheesy faux-patriotic bullshit names?)
posted by notsnot at 5:43 AM on September 10, 2013
I read that right after following Aelfwine's link on 1000-footers. One of which has been re-christened "American Integrity".
How about that.
(What is it with the re-named ships getting cheesy faux-patriotic bullshit names?)
posted by notsnot at 5:43 AM on September 10, 2013
I went to college at Michigan Tech. It's always a bit disconcerting to wake up in the morning, look out the window, and see a lake freighter sheltering in Portage Lake. Especially when you consider that Portage Lake is well inland from the north entry, and if there was a freighter in the Portage then the canal was probably full of them.
posted by jlkr at 5:45 AM on September 10, 2013
posted by jlkr at 5:45 AM on September 10, 2013
The Edmund Fitzgerald was the last big wreck on the Great Lakes (now almost 40 years ago), thanks in part to new caution and safety rules after the tragedy. And the Arthur M. Anderson mentioned above is still sailing. I'm not sure if they still do this, but when I was a kid the evening news would announce all the big ships coming in and out of the port, so that name is burned into my mind along with names like the Paul J. Tregurtha and the James R. Barker.
In the "Twin Ports" of Duluth, MN and Superior, WI you can visit former lakers turned tourist attractions, including the William A. Irvin -- a laker similar to the Fitzgerald but smaller -- and the much smaller and antique S.S. Meteor, a historic "whaleback" ship.
It also seems appropriate to mention here that there are now plans to ship oil on the Great Lakes out of Superior, WI. As you might imagine, not everyone is thrilled with this idea. It would help the shipping industry and bring always-needed jobs and money. On the other hand, it would also mean shipping oil on the Great Lakes out of Superior, WI...
posted by TheKevinFlynnEffect at 6:13 AM on September 10, 2013
In the "Twin Ports" of Duluth, MN and Superior, WI you can visit former lakers turned tourist attractions, including the William A. Irvin -- a laker similar to the Fitzgerald but smaller -- and the much smaller and antique S.S. Meteor, a historic "whaleback" ship.
It also seems appropriate to mention here that there are now plans to ship oil on the Great Lakes out of Superior, WI. As you might imagine, not everyone is thrilled with this idea. It would help the shipping industry and bring always-needed jobs and money. On the other hand, it would also mean shipping oil on the Great Lakes out of Superior, WI...
posted by TheKevinFlynnEffect at 6:13 AM on September 10, 2013
Anyone know if there are still iron ore freighters traversing the great lakes?
I live a couple hundred feet from ore docks, and I can assure you that ore boats are still a very common sight on Lake Superior. They are especially noticeable on foggy mornings like today...when I am woken up by the BWAHHHHHHHH of the ships foghorns at 4am. You can see who's coming and going on the Duluth Shipping News, but believe me when I tell you that the arrival and departure times are very much just an estimate.
I've been living here for a few years now, and have kind of "gotten over" the touristy excitement of watching the boats come in, load ore, and depart. Instead, it's kind of like having an old friend come to visit. I can understand why people treated the loss of the Edmund Fitzgerald like the loss of an old friend, even if they didn't know anybody on the crew. I like to see the Presque Isle and the Indiana Harbor and the Jim Oberstar in dock, or the gigantic "American Whatevers" (American Spirit, American Courage, American Integrity etc...identical thousand-footers) zipping on by on their way to Thunder Bay. It feels good to know that that part of the world just keeps on turning.
posted by Elly Vortex at 6:48 AM on September 10, 2013 [3 favorites]
I live a couple hundred feet from ore docks, and I can assure you that ore boats are still a very common sight on Lake Superior. They are especially noticeable on foggy mornings like today...when I am woken up by the BWAHHHHHHHH of the ships foghorns at 4am. You can see who's coming and going on the Duluth Shipping News, but believe me when I tell you that the arrival and departure times are very much just an estimate.
I've been living here for a few years now, and have kind of "gotten over" the touristy excitement of watching the boats come in, load ore, and depart. Instead, it's kind of like having an old friend come to visit. I can understand why people treated the loss of the Edmund Fitzgerald like the loss of an old friend, even if they didn't know anybody on the crew. I like to see the Presque Isle and the Indiana Harbor and the Jim Oberstar in dock, or the gigantic "American Whatevers" (American Spirit, American Courage, American Integrity etc...identical thousand-footers) zipping on by on their way to Thunder Bay. It feels good to know that that part of the world just keeps on turning.
posted by Elly Vortex at 6:48 AM on September 10, 2013 [3 favorites]
Anyone know if there are still iron ore freighters traversing the great lakes?
You may also like:
About 85 percent of the Great Lakes shipping trade is iron ore, coal, and limestone for construction. The rest is primarily salt, cement, grain, and oil.
-- NBC News, June 18, 2013
You may also like:
- Daily Great Lakes and Seaway Shipping News
- Vessel Passage
- Winter 2012-2013 Lay-up List
- Lake Superior Shipping News
- Duluth Shipping News
- Win a trip on a working Great Lakes freighter
- Ore boat captains hate him! One weird trick for transp- just kidding
uh, sorry Elly Vortex, I missed that you'd already linked to Duluth Shipping News.
Seriously, though, check out the all the pics and info at boatnerds.com (the first three links above) if you're interested in the Great Lakes angle on ships, shipping, lighthouses, tugs, shipwrecks, maritime photography, maritime history and lore, or just fascinated by the human propensity to nerd-out on avocations -- like ship-spotting.
posted by Herodios at 7:53 AM on September 10, 2013
Seriously, though, check out the all the pics and info at boatnerds.com (the first three links above) if you're interested in the Great Lakes angle on ships, shipping, lighthouses, tugs, shipwrecks, maritime photography, maritime history and lore, or just fascinated by the human propensity to nerd-out on avocations -- like ship-spotting.
posted by Herodios at 7:53 AM on September 10, 2013
The Edmund Fitzgerald was the last big wreck on the Great Lakes (now almost 40 years ago), thanks in part to new caution and safety rules after the tragedy. And the Arthur M. Anderson mentioned above is still sailing.
One of my brothers is an engineer on the Arthur M. Anderson. Two months on, one month off. Heck of life. Excellent post, HuronBob, and to the other contributors, thanks.
posted by Mojojojo at 8:15 AM on September 10, 2013
One of my brothers is an engineer on the Arthur M. Anderson. Two months on, one month off. Heck of life. Excellent post, HuronBob, and to the other contributors, thanks.
posted by Mojojojo at 8:15 AM on September 10, 2013
I took this picture last August and it's posted on my office wall. People often comment on it and ask where it was taken. They usually assume it's some SoCal beach (not surprising, we're in NorCal) and they're surprised when I tell them it's Lake Superior. Then I show them a winter picture like this or this. Brr.
posted by elsietheeel at 8:32 AM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by elsietheeel at 8:32 AM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
...that name is burned into my mind along with names like the Paul J. Tregurtha...
Erm, burned in my mind I say? I meant Paul R. Tregurtha.
Speaking of Paul, where is she?
posted by TheKevinFlynnEffect at 10:15 AM on September 10, 2013
Erm, burned in my mind I say? I meant Paul R. Tregurtha.
Speaking of Paul, where is she?
posted by TheKevinFlynnEffect at 10:15 AM on September 10, 2013
notsnot: I read that right after following Aelfwine's link on 1000-footers. One of which has been re-christened "American Integrity".Dauntless. Intrepid. Bounty.
How about that.
(What is it with the re-named ships getting cheesy faux-patriotic bullshit names?)
posted by IAmBroom at 10:50 AM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
.
I remember that night. We had volleyball practice, so we didn't leave school until after sundown. We cut south, through the ravine and over to Morrison & Beech. Where we could buy smokes. Coming up from the ravine we saw the sign (it was a 7-Up sign) being torn off of the storefront and tossed across the road like a coin tossed from your fingers. The wind was fierce. We all made it home safe somehow. In the morning we found the middle one of three oaks on our property wrenched to the ground. Snapped like a toothpick.
But the news that came later that day... it was the most wrenching of all. My dad was head of transportation at Algoma Steel at the time. It was very traumatic.
Thanks to everyone for all of the links. Much appreciated.
From great loss, often comes great music. As proved again by this post. Thank you, HuronBob.
posted by shoesfullofdust at 5:24 PM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
I remember that night. We had volleyball practice, so we didn't leave school until after sundown. We cut south, through the ravine and over to Morrison & Beech. Where we could buy smokes. Coming up from the ravine we saw the sign (it was a 7-Up sign) being torn off of the storefront and tossed across the road like a coin tossed from your fingers. The wind was fierce. We all made it home safe somehow. In the morning we found the middle one of three oaks on our property wrenched to the ground. Snapped like a toothpick.
But the news that came later that day... it was the most wrenching of all. My dad was head of transportation at Algoma Steel at the time. It was very traumatic.
Thanks to everyone for all of the links. Much appreciated.
From great loss, often comes great music. As proved again by this post. Thank you, HuronBob.
posted by shoesfullofdust at 5:24 PM on September 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
IAmBroom: "
Naming ships used to be about the implication that you'd die for the team of ShipX. That's why they got away from cool one word names to names of leaders and places, because they thought that the average seaman understood that better.
At least, that's what I seem to remember from a history class somewhere, so it's probably wrong.
posted by Sphinx at 6:08 PM on September 10, 2013
Dauntless. Intrepid. Bounty.Ask the Brits. Defiance. Victory. Revenge. Earnest.
Naming ships used to be about the implication that you'd die for the team of ShipX. That's why they got away from cool one word names to names of leaders and places, because they thought that the average seaman understood that better.
At least, that's what I seem to remember from a history class somewhere, so it's probably wrong.
posted by Sphinx at 6:08 PM on September 10, 2013
Interesting timing for this. September 10 is the 200th anniversary of that famous message from Lake Erie:
"Dear General: We have met the enemy and they are ours. Two ships, two brigs, one schooner and one sloop. Yours with great respect and esteem, O.H. Perry"
posted by Twang at 11:34 PM on September 10, 2013
"Dear General: We have met the enemy and they are ours. Two ships, two brigs, one schooner and one sloop. Yours with great respect and esteem, O.H. Perry"
posted by Twang at 11:34 PM on September 10, 2013
(What is it with the re-named ships getting cheesy faux-patriotic bullshit names?)
Well, the American ______ vessels are those of the American Steamship Company. I agree they're cheesy, but American _____ is probably just a branding thing that's increasingly common for ships -- most of the Carnival companies do this (e.g. Carnival, Princess, Costa), Maersk and COSCO do it for shipping.
names of leaders and places
Well, navies are political. I think there were clear choices favoring populism and recognition of battlefield courage the further you get into the 19th century with the US Navy, and then the two world wars in particular caused the building of many, many ships. With several hundred you run out of the Dauntlesses rather quickly.
posted by dhartung at 1:56 AM on September 11, 2013
Well, the American ______ vessels are those of the American Steamship Company. I agree they're cheesy, but American _____ is probably just a branding thing that's increasingly common for ships -- most of the Carnival companies do this (e.g. Carnival, Princess, Costa), Maersk and COSCO do it for shipping.
names of leaders and places
Well, navies are political. I think there were clear choices favoring populism and recognition of battlefield courage the further you get into the 19th century with the US Navy, and then the two world wars in particular caused the building of many, many ships. With several hundred you run out of the Dauntlesses rather quickly.
posted by dhartung at 1:56 AM on September 11, 2013
What a great post, thanks, Huronbob!
posted by Gadgetenvy at 2:57 PM on September 12, 2013
posted by Gadgetenvy at 2:57 PM on September 12, 2013
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