Fringe History

November 5, 2013 9:03 AM

Seven Things Not to Learn from Sleepy Hollow, a "delightful but completely unreliable source of historical information". The show, which is already writen by Fringe alumni Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman just gained John Noble as a recuring character "The Sin Eater".
posted by Artw (334 comments total)

Is this show good? Please do not answer if you are one of the 1000 Mefites who told me Hannibal was brilliant, when it is essentially Dexter with a MFA in Design from Parsons.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:11 AM on November 5, 2013 [26 favorites]

Ginna have to stay quiet on that one then, I'm afraid.
posted by Artw at 9:13 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

I second Potomac Ave's question, but with the modifier that, along with your recommendation you tell how you liked Fringe seasons 2-4.

Because if it's good, man, I will watch me some John Noble. Guy's a damn treasure.
posted by gauche at 9:14 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Please to put this show on this scale:

RidiculousBad_____________________________________________RidiculousGood
True Blood ----- Dexter ---- Hannibal --- American Horror Story --- Xfiles --- Fringe
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:14 AM on November 5, 2013 [16 favorites]

Actually American Horror Story should be under the scale entirely, eating its own flesh.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:15 AM on November 5, 2013 [22 favorites]

Man, in the last 24 hours people have dissed Hannibal and Night Vale on Metafilter. People are much braver than me.

Sleepy Hollow isn't good by a lot of people's definitions, but I find it pretty entertaining. It's balls crazy and it knows it but somehow doesn't acknowledge it with annoyingly winking. On preview, according to your scale, I'd say right now it's between AHS and X-Files, but YMMV.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:16 AM on November 5, 2013 [6 favorites]

True Blood, with attendant ridiculous campiness.
posted by maryr at 9:16 AM on November 5, 2013

I don't know if it's good, but it is nuts. The episode I saw involved the two main characters getting stung by scorpions that they got from a Native American in New England because apparently the indigenous inhabitants of the northeast know all about arachnids from the southwest. And also the Ichabod Crane character was really, really surprised to find out about the genocide of Native Americans. I mean, like really surprised. Shocked even. Apparently race relations were going swimmingly when he left the 18th century.
posted by dortmunder at 9:16 AM on November 5, 2013 [16 favorites]

Leftenent Ichabod Crane is the best Pantene commericial I have seen in years.
posted by maryr at 9:17 AM on November 5, 2013 [6 favorites]

I'm enjoying the show and find it reminds me a bit of the X Files, although the metaphysical and historical underpinnings are hilariously over the top.
posted by localroger at 9:17 AM on November 5, 2013

Also I can't take Cecil's voice on Night Vale but that is neither hither nor yon. #iconoclashin'
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:17 AM on November 5, 2013

I had seventeen conniption fits with the Middle English thing because that is the kind of viewer I am.

Is Sleepy Hollow good? No. Is it really, really entertaining? Yeah, pretty much.
posted by WidgetAlley at 9:17 AM on November 5, 2013 [12 favorites]

I think Orci wrote last night's Blacklist too? In case you were wondering, that show is only good for hatewatching.
posted by Think_Long at 9:18 AM on November 5, 2013

Fringe was about as good as Haven. Watchable, but often terrible. Still better than Lost. Sleepy Hollow is about as good as Grimm, which is to say not very.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:19 AM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

The show is RIDICULOUS. Which I mean to be a complement. I got sucked in to watching it based on this exchange about baked goods.
posted by maryr at 9:19 AM on November 5, 2013 [8 favorites]

It's ridiculous, and veers on Supernatural-lite, but, dude, when you look at the freaking cast, it's like all those racebending fancasts people have made for so many other shows...but it's real! And it's on our TVs!

Fuck yeah!
posted by Katemonkey at 9:19 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

My wife describes Sleepy Hollow as "Pretty bad, but bad in such a bonkers away you keep watching it because it is completely insane."
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:20 AM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

John Noble's performance of his pro-LSD character is the only reason to watch Fringe. And then you'll want to watch all of it. But you won't like how terrible the plots to the individual episodes are, unless you are dropping acid while you watch them.

Yes, Anna Torv is great in it too. But you won't be watching it because anything makes sense.
posted by Catblack at 9:20 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Also, if I had to sum up the show in one image, it would be this.
posted by maryr at 9:21 AM on November 5, 2013 [7 favorites]

The headless horseman has a machine gun.

IT'S FANTASTIC.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:22 AM on November 5, 2013 [11 favorites]

It is the dumbest, campest, most ridiculous thing I have seen in a while (and I have seen Teen Wolf) but that's what makes it amazing. You should totally watch it, because it has a badass WoC as the main character and multiple PoC supporting characters, some insanely stupid (and self-aware) mythology, Orland Jones as Washington Captain Irving and a total fandom shipper, and a writing staff that gets into Twitter feuds with the Elementary writing staff.

I did like Hannibal, but have not directly suggested it to Potomac Avenue, so I feel qualified to make this recommendation.

Watch it.
posted by Phire at 9:22 AM on November 5, 2013 [25 favorites]

(Also also and I'll stop after this, I am excited to watch this week's episode because apparently Ichabod is introduced to baseball.)
posted by maryr at 9:22 AM on November 5, 2013

Sleepy Hollow is awesome and shut up about Hannibal.
posted by elizardbits at 9:22 AM on November 5, 2013 [18 favorites]

Also, I don't get Orlando Jones's character on the show at all, but Orlando Jones being on the show and then being ridiculous about it on the twitter and the tumblr is a true gift.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:23 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

The Baked Goods clip us probably a good test of if you'll like it.
posted by Artw at 9:24 AM on November 5, 2013

Yes, exactly, Ichabod Crane vs the 21st Century is my favourite underlying sidestory in the series, especially his concern that a certain number of starbucksen might be federally mandated per square mile.
posted by elizardbits at 9:25 AM on November 5, 2013 [9 favorites]

Oh! Wait! Here is the reason to watch this show:

Orlando Jones' Tumblr background image.

That's it. That's the show.

or something like it.
posted by Katemonkey at 9:26 AM on November 5, 2013 [7 favorites]

To be perfectly fair to y'all I told everyone I know how great Homeland was this summer and now I have to endure a veritable Niagara Falls of complaints about the latest season, which has jumped a Whole Sea World Full Of Aquatic Creatures in scarcely 5 episodes. IM SORRY OK STOP THROWING THINGS AT ME ON THE STREET I DIDNT KNOW THE SHOW WAS GOING TO GO FULL COUGAR CAVE THIS YEAR FFS.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:29 AM on November 5, 2013 [5 favorites]

Also SPOILER ALERT James Frain was a guest star last night and James Frain, as we all know, is awesome.
posted by elizardbits at 9:30 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

I'm two eps into this season of Homeland... Does it ever get good again?
posted by Artw at 9:30 AM on November 5, 2013

Man, Ichabod is not going to like Obamacare.
posted by maryr at 9:31 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Sleepy Hollow is utterly ridiculous and totally earnest, which is a winning combination in my view.
posted by brundlefly at 9:32 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Also the enjoyment of every role James Frain has ever played and will ever play is remarkably enhanced by the assumption that they were all alter egos of Franklin the vampire.
posted by elizardbits at 9:32 AM on November 5, 2013 [9 favorites]

Latest ep of Homeland ended A LOT of horrible plotlines, so we'll see. Maybe skip to ep 6. Watch the single Brody one (I think it's ep 3 of this season).
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:32 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

I still think of James Frain as Cromwell, so Vampire Cromwell works pretty good.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:33 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

Sleepy Hollow totally dispenses with plausibility in a way I find very entertaining. The show is thoroughly, absolutely ridiculous.
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:34 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

They're filming it in my hometown, and took over historic Oakdale Cemetery one night to film a sequence (complete with real live horses galloping through the cemetery as they wage battle).

Much over the top fun!
posted by mightshould at 9:37 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Man, Ichabod is not going to like Obamacare.

It IS a FOX show...
posted by Artw at 9:38 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Ichabod Crane vs Baseball was the SECOND MOST ADORABLE THING in American history. Seriously, I need an entire wacky sports movie now with Abbie coaching the police intramural baseball team and Ichabod* valiantly failing at running the bases in the right direction.

And the #1 most adorable thing, you ask? Ichabod vs Yolanda the OnStar lady. Oh my GOD.


* "Do your friends call you 'Ichy?'" "Not if they wish to remain my friends."
posted by nicebookrack at 9:38 AM on November 5, 2013 [10 favorites]

Has anyone mentioned that Abbie's sister is Sara Connor? Abbie's sister is Sara Connor. Ichabod totally loves her crazy breaking out of asylums, freedom fighting ways.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:38 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

I've been looking for a copy of the Onstar scene to link to this thread, but to no avail. It was the best 'recap the premise of this television show within the context of the show' scene ever.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:41 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Abbie's sister is POC Linda Connor with Faith the Vampire Slayer's sass and it is so, so beautiful.

Who passes the Racial Bechdel test every week, Sleepy Hollow? You do!
posted by nicebookrack at 9:42 AM on November 5, 2013 [9 favorites]

I love me some ridiculous but entertaining TV, but I think this show might be too ridiculous even for me. But if John Noble is a regular, I might have to give it a shot again.
posted by rtha at 9:42 AM on November 5, 2013

Does this show refer to the fact that 100% of Brooklyn Hipster Families are moving to the Hudson River towns? That's the kind of historical inaccuracy I can get behind.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:42 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

I’m shocked, SHOCKED, that Sleepy Hollow is playing fast and loose with history.

But then I'm also shocked that I... kind of really, really like this show so far and missed it while it was on a brief hiatus for the World Series.
posted by sparkletone at 9:42 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Also, I don't get Orlando Jones's character on the show at all, but Orlando Jones being on the show and then being ridiculous about it on the twitter and the tumblr is a true gift.

The most recent Firewall & Iceberg podcast mentioned this and dropped in a tidbit about Orlando Jones' character from an early version of the pilot that they watched. I don't know if his character will eventually evolve, but the writers at least had plans for him at one point.
posted by gladly at 9:42 AM on November 5, 2013

It is the dumbest, campest, most ridiculous thing I have seen in a while (and I have seen Teen Wolf) but that's what makes it amazing. You should totally watch it, because it has a badass WoC as the main character and multiple PoC supporting characters, some insanely stupid (and self-aware) mythology, Orland Jones as Washington Captain Irving and a total fandom shipper, and a writing staff that gets into Twitter feuds with the Elementary writing staff.

Why ‘Elementary’ Is Falling Apart — And Why ‘Sleepy Hollow’ Isn’t (spoiler alerts for both)

I’ve been thinking a lot about the piece Rob Bricken wrote for I09 about why Sleepy Hollow works, because I think it answers what’s gone wrong with Elementary. The two shows share a similar template–you have the fussy British detective with incredibly progressive politics for his time (Ichabod Crane lacks all of the racist and sexist attitudes you might expect in a man from the 1700s, Holmes’ social circle is incredibly diverse without it being played for “Look how accepting he is!”), the American woman of color partner who’s helping him figure out, the somewhat stern police captain who is supportive of the efforts of the two leads, and a huge cast of weird characters doing often seemingly inexplicable things.
[...]
The show went to great lengths last season to build this really interesting world full of people you don’t normally see on TV to tell interesting stories in. And it’s like they lost their nerve about letting Sherlock and Joan continue to occupy that interesting world this season. So, instead, we’ve been given a much more conventional, much less enjoyable show.

And maybe that wouldn’t necessarily be a problem, except that, like I said, if you want to watch a dynamic friendship forming between a British dude and an American woman who are trying to solve mysteries on a show that is still funny and charming, you can turn to Sleepy Hollow. So, Elementary needs to find a way to get the magic back and soon.

posted by zombieflanders at 9:42 AM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

I have it in gif form somewhere

Also re: baseball scene - I don't buy that he would profess such utter befuddlement at the existence of a game with bats and balls, as surely he would have been aware of the existence of cricket. Further, he would also have been aware of the intense rivalries and fannish enjoyment of local cricket supporters.

sigh
posted by elizardbits at 9:43 AM on November 5, 2013

Please to put this show on this scale:

Maybe better as a 2-D chart, with Good/Bad along the Y axis and Ridiculous/Mundane along the X. In terms of Ridic it's right there with True Blood, AHS, Adventure Time, etc. and in terms of Good? Probably not as good as the X-Files, maybe about as good as Fringe.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:43 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

The Baked Goods clip us probably a good test of if you'll like it.

I haven't seen Sleepy Hollow yet, but I don't think I'd be able to get past that scene. It's cute, but there's currently a crazy guy standing outside my post office calling for the impeachment of the President for raising taxes (amongst other things).

Maybe I could be enticed if they included a proto-steampunk Ben Franklin, or a John and Abigail Adams demon-hunting duo who dispatch the supernatural by carefully constructing arguments against it's existence.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:43 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Oh oh oh, it does turn out that the Tea party was just a ruse to hide some sort of macguffin! Ichabod set it up, for reasons.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:45 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

I just hope they never move it from the Monday time slot because I do not watch a lot of TV when it is on, but it is just the perfect thing to decompress after a Monday. It's like a 24 that doesn't outrage me with its politics.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:45 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Maybe I could be enticed if they included a steampunk Ben Franklin, or a John and Abigail Adams demon-hunting duo who dispatch the supernatural by constructing carefully constructed arguments against it's existence.

Well, according to Ichabod, Jefferson was a fan of puns and Adams loved dirty limericks, so there's that.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:46 AM on November 5, 2013

yolanda
posted by elizardbits at 9:46 AM on November 5, 2013 [16 favorites]

I don't buy that he would profess such utter befuddlement at the existence of a game with bats and balls, as surely he would have been aware of the existence of cricket.

He also would have been aware of the very baseball-like game rounders, which was even called "base-ball" in the 18th century.
posted by jedicus at 9:47 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

Ken and Robin Talk About Stuff has a good take on it's historicism - you know when there's a setting that's genetically nicer China or whatever but they've mashed everything up because most people here don't know that stuff and what the hell, throw in ninjas, ninjas are fun? It's basically that for American history. Which is awesome.
posted by Artw at 9:47 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

I enjoy the freaking hell out of Sleepy Hollow, and I say that as a history buff and a Washington irving fan. It dances on the graves of both those sources, but it's such a merry dance I simply can't help joining in.

I think the comparisons to The X-Files are apt. All the crazy stuff they show happening during the Revolution is the stuff you WISH really happened. And the costars have mad chemistry together (Noromo!!!).

He's eventually going to have to stop wearing that coat, isn't he? Like, for hygiene and stuff? It'd fall apart if he tried to get it cleaned!
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:48 AM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

If we don't get Ben Franklin doing a Bewitched I'll be shocked.
posted by Artw at 9:48 AM on November 5, 2013

zombieflanders: "The show went to great lengths last season to build this really interesting world full of people you don’t normally see on TV to tell interesting stories in. And it’s like they lost their nerve about letting Sherlock and Joan continue to occupy that interesting world this season. So, instead, we’ve been given a much more conventional, much less enjoyable show."

That's an interesting parallel. I do still enjoy the heck out of Elementary, and I wonder if maybe some of the disappointment in S2 so far is because we're coming off of a hell of an S1 finale that anything is dull in comparison. S1 took a bit to get going in the earlier episodes as well, and since Elementary doesn't feature arc-long mysteries per se it's hard to jump right back into those high stakes. Mycroft and Lestrade were both really great additions to the wider world of Sherlock Holmes, for example, and I'm really enjoying exploring more character development for Sherlock / have faith that the writers will pull something amazing off by the end.

Sleepy Hollow, Elementary, and (of all things) Brooklyn Nine-Nine are the things that I look forward to after work each week.
posted by Phire at 9:49 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

He's eventually going to have to stop wearing that coat, isn't he? Like, for hygiene and stuff? It'd fall apart if he tried to get it cleaned!

This is important stuff.
posted by Artw at 9:49 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Oh, and I've also heard the racial Bechdel test referred to as the Mako Mori test, which I adore for obvious reasons.
posted by Phire at 9:50 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

I've headcanoned that Ichabod actually went clothes shopping at a Ren faire at some point so Ichabod could continue wearing clothes he felt comfortable in, and then made myself incredibly happy imagining how that would have gone.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:50 AM on November 5, 2013 [5 favorites]

I thought about rounders but that didn't really get big until the early 1800s, which were after Ichabod's time.
posted by elizardbits at 9:50 AM on November 5, 2013

He's eventually going to have to stop wearing that coat, isn't he? Like, for hygiene and stuff? It'd fall apart if he tried to get it cleaned!

This is important stuff.

According to an interview with Tom Mison at EW: "[Y]es, there will be new clothes arriving soon. But how well Ichabod takes to them is another matter."
posted by zombieflanders at 9:51 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

If we do not get a brief shopping montage wherein Ichabod is filled with confusion and dismay and finally reluctant acceptance I will be terribly cross.
posted by elizardbits at 9:53 AM on November 5, 2013 [15 favorites]

If we do not get a brief shopping montage wherein Ichabod is filled with confusion and dismay and finally reluctant acceptance I will be terribly cross.

I've been gleefully looking forward to this scene since it was hinted at in an interview with the writers.
posted by sparkletone at 9:53 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

Extra points if he is drawn by the siren call of jeggings and Abbie has to pry them from his grasp.
posted by elizardbits at 9:53 AM on November 5, 2013 [8 favorites]

Fic time! Five Times North Star Assistance Helped The English Guy
posted by nicebookrack at 9:54 AM on November 5, 2013 [9 favorites]

I want see Crane with a credit card in the mall food court. He'd be all over Cinnabon, I know it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:56 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

He also would have been aware of the very baseball-like game rounders, which was even called "base-ball" in the 18th century.

Pittsfield, MA (~40mi east of Albany) had an ordinance which prohibited the playing of "baseball" near the town hall in 1791.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:57 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Phire: I've heard the Mako Mori test a) at least one female character; b) who gets her own narrative arc; c) that is not about supporting a man’s story.
Which Sleepy Hollow Abbie & sister also pass!
posted by nicebookrack at 9:57 AM on November 5, 2013

I'm not trying to convince you, because I suspect you're invested in your antagonism towards Hannibal*, but I would guess you didn't watch enough of it. A few episodes would make it seem more Dexter-like. The depth of the relationships that is the meat (ha ha!) of the show takes time to prepare. And the build over the season is unrivalled. (Although I also freely grant that it's definitely not for everyone).

*I don't mean this is like an insulting way. I'm comparing to my own experience, where once I disagree with popular opinion about something, or find some particular fault that I find distracting, often I have a very hard time leaving that relationship with the thing behind. Even when I suspect I'm wrong, it's so difficult to stop just reaffirming my argument, proving to myself that I'm "right" in not liking it. Maybe that's just me, though.
posted by neuromodulator at 9:58 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

nicebookrack: "Phire: I've heard the Mako Mori test a) at least one female character; b) who gets her own narrative arc; c) that is not about supporting a man’s story."

That is probably what I was thinking of, yeah, good call. Incidentally, Daily Dot has been doing some excellent progressive reporting on fandom / new media / internet culture, and is a great place to figure out what Tumblr is up to without actually going on Tumblr. Gavia Baker-Whitelaw (Hello Tailor) is consistently excellent.

10 Reasons to Love Sleepy Hollow Even If You Don't Watch The Show
posted by Phire at 10:02 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

Maybe better as a 2-D chart, with Good/Bad along the Y axis and Ridiculous/Mundane along the X.

OK, Here you go, Horror TV Eye Chart affix Sleepy Hollow where you like.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:04 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

I left Supernatual off because Seasons 1-2 are clever and make sense and then it goes totally bonkers.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:06 AM on November 5, 2013

Ichabod Crane vs Umpire

This will inspire my new blog, ichabod-denounces-ALL-the-things.tumblr.com
posted by nicebookrack at 10:07 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Potomac Avenue, Once Upon a Time requires +20 Ridiculous boost for the family/dating tree alone
posted by nicebookrack at 10:08 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

One thing that I haven't seen anyone mention in this thread yet that really alleviated a lot of fears I had after having a confusingly good time watching the pilot was learning that Sleepy Hollow is only doing 13 episodes per season. No back 9, which means no stretching things out or doing mediocre filler episodes.

Hannibal is doing things the same way (13 episodes per season, no stretch to 22), and in both cases, I could not be more pleased with the push to keep things constrained and to have a definite end point for each season so that things can be built up naturally without having to leave them hanging in case 9 more episodes get ordered. In the Sleepy Hollow/Elementary comparison someone was making up thread, I think not having to stretch out over a long season is actually something that makes things easier for the Sleepy Hollow writers.

Speaking of those two shows: Their respective writing staffs had an adorable twitter "fight" the other week.
posted by sparkletone at 10:09 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Once Upon A Time is slightly different because the characters are complete morons that constantly fall for Evil Bad Guy Tricks and yet you root for them anyway but my god are they dumb.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 10:10 AM on November 5, 2013 [7 favorites]

*sob*


I love Sleepy Hollow for the amaze-balls trainwreck that it is and of course, Ichabod's coat. Which he never washes. But it's so old it may fall apart or something.
posted by Kitteh at 10:12 AM on November 5, 2013

Once Upon A Time is slightly different because the characters are complete morons

Haaha yeah that is so very true. Its Smartypants factor is increased mainly by the backstory myth-twisting which is genuinely one of the smartest things I've ever seen on TV. The modern day plotlines are absurd though, totally boring. Which is why it's trending Mundanely. Imo.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:13 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Also, to mention a conversation I was having with Mefites on Twitter about Ichabod's hygiene, I think we've seen him bathe once. ONCE. I dunno about you, if I just woke up after 250 years of dirty smelly in-the-groundness, I'd be bathing every damn day.
posted by Kitteh at 10:15 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

The #1 reason Once Upon a Time stays on my TV-DVR

It's like Spike and Captain Jack Sparrow had a snarky leathery baby and wow I totally have A Type

Um, back on topic: citizens of Great Britain & Ireland, plz continue to invade all of my TV shows plz plz
posted by nicebookrack at 10:17 AM on November 5, 2013 [5 favorites]

WELL BUT non-dead/non-decomposing things that have been buried for 250 years are not really that smelly. And in comparison to the standard hygiene practices of his contemporaries he seems to be doing a good job.

Also it is a sort of invalid metric because we have never seen anyone else on the show bathe EVER.

you just want to see him the shower again ADMIT IT
posted by elizardbits at 10:18 AM on November 5, 2013 [6 favorites]

This is one show for which I am able to turn off my analytical mind and just enjoy despite all the ridiculousness. Learning there is a Fringe connection makes sense because I had a similar relationship with that show. Also, learning that it has already been picked up for a second season is a great shock to me because I curse every thing I watch and enjoy to an early cancellation. Of course, they will completely ruin it in the second season and the curse will live on.
posted by mimo at 10:19 AM on November 5, 2013

I love ridiculousness and terrible camp and supernatural things that make no sense but I quit Sleepy Hollow because I just could not get past the fact that they let this weirdo from the past instantly become a detective, working with the local police department. I mean, what? Fine, have him come back from the dead and never change his clothes and all that but there is just no way they would let him roam about solving cases.
posted by something something at 10:23 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

elizardbits, are you really against more characters of sleepy hollow showering scenes?
posted by dinty_moore at 10:23 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Isn't Crane from an era from when people thought frequent bathing made you sick? Perhaps he's been dousing himself with that refreshing cheap cologne he found at a truck stop, AXE for Manly Men.

I totally wanna see him in the shower again. And in a sleek exquisitely tailored suit, in which he looks as miserable as a golden retriever with a poodle cut.
posted by nicebookrack at 10:23 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

Captain Hook rocks the guyliner so hard on OUAT it's actually a little unnerving.

And you're damn right I will take any excuse to get Tom Mison out of moldy clothing and under hot water.
posted by Kitteh at 10:23 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

I just could not get past the fact that they let this weirdo from the past instantly become a detective, working with the local police department.

Right but, uh, spoiler alert maybe? Captain Irving knows more than he is letting on about Ichabod, I think. Also remember that when Detective Hottie Ex Boyfriend called up Oxford to find out if Ichabod really was a visiting professor, someone had either fudged records or paid someone off to confirm that yes, Ichabod Crane the 250 year old magical dude was a contemporary professor on leave.
posted by elizardbits at 10:25 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

Oh wow. I had this show totally confused with the completely terrible show "Once Upon a Time" so I never watched it. Thanks for setting me straight.

But you won't like how terrible the plots to the individual episodes are, unless you are dropping acid while you watch them. Yes, Anna Torv is great in it too. But you won't be watching it because anything makes sense.

Fringe is definitely on my top ten list, and I've never taken LSD (unfortunately). The science on the show was often terrible, but it generally followed its own rules, which is all that really matters to me when it comes to science fiction. The fact that it takes place in a (well, several) alternate universes where the laws of nature may not coincide with our own gives it a good excuse for handwaving away inconvenient science.
posted by Thoughtcrime at 10:27 AM on November 5, 2013

you just want to see him the shower again ADMIT IT

Well, yes, of course. That's a given.

But look at the hair - there's no way that's not regularly-washed hair. Probably not as regularly as if he'd been born in the 20th century, but I think the coat and maybe the trousers are most likely the only things still getting straight-up 18th-century levels of care because of the fabrics and construction.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:27 AM on November 5, 2013

Captain Irvine

Oh no you didn't.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:27 AM on November 5, 2013

"general washington gave me that ribbon"
posted by elizardbits at 10:28 AM on November 5, 2013 [5 favorites]

Captain Irvine knows more than he is letting on about Ichabod, I think.

I forget the details beyond the same interview that teased "Ichabod getting out of his coat and into modern clothing" as a thing that might happen also said they'd address why Captain Irving is so totes fine with this crazy supposedly-old person wandering around town solving cases, fighting demons, etc.

In any case, I'm willing to give them benefit of the doubt because I'm sure whatever the explanation is, if they do address, will be entertainingly insane.
posted by sparkletone at 10:28 AM on November 5, 2013

(Updates Official Nemesises to include Potomac Avenue )
posted by The Whelk at 10:28 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

also someone better write ichabod/donut holes for yuletide
posted by elizardbits at 10:29 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

I need to see last night's episode. Badly.

(i missed you Ichabod...and your coat)
posted by Kitteh at 10:30 AM on November 5, 2013

Fine, have him come back from the dead and never change his clothes and all that but there is just no way they would let him roam about solving cases.

Yet you're fine with the Headless Horseman carrying a machine gun. Which is understandable, because...YEAH.

My biggest problem is that the show feels like the writers have done an insane amount of world building and want to show us every detail, though rarely in a logical fashion.

All of this would be fixed with more scenes of Abbie strapped to a table and wearing only a bra and jeans.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:31 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Maybe someday I can catch up via Netflix and speed through it quickly enough to assuage my doubts about the bureaucratic details. I like when stuff is weird but I don't like when they try to bend weird stuff to fit in with normal life.
posted by something something at 10:32 AM on November 5, 2013

I seethe with jealousy at Captain Hook's one-handed guyliner. That tightlining! And then adorable dorky baby Flashback Hook makes him Captain Sparrow and fluffy puppy Norrington at the same time. My heart!

Someone introduce Ichabod to cronuts. Someone introduce Ichabod to IHOP!
posted by nicebookrack at 10:34 AM on November 5, 2013

I keep meaning to catch up on Sleepy Hollow! I watched the pilot and twigged to the fact that the Sheriff was The Kurgen just about thirty seconds before the inevitable happened. Hang on to your head, Clancy!
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:35 AM on November 5, 2013

I pretty much assume that Orlando Jones is a Watcher.
posted by maryr at 10:36 AM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

Horror as a TV genre has great potential though. As does Superheros. I have faith there's a script out there that will realize that potential sometime soon. Hannibal could definitely get there. It is totally beautiful in its unbelievable way.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:37 AM on November 5, 2013

do birds help you dress in the morning?

Ichabod Crane is a Disney princess

This explains SO MUCH
posted by nicebookrack at 10:37 AM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

It certainly explains the hair.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:39 AM on November 5, 2013

So we need a musical episode then?
posted by The Whelk at 10:39 AM on November 5, 2013

(Look if Fringe can do it anyone can do it )
posted by The Whelk at 10:40 AM on November 5, 2013

Complete with Ichabod getting super into musicals, yes.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:40 AM on November 5, 2013

Potomac Avenue: OK, Here you go, Horror TV Eye Chart affix Sleepy Hollow where you like.

OK. Along with some more shows for context. I'm using (X,Y) notation, and it looks like Hannibal is at (8,2) and OUAT is (-18,7).

Sleepy Hollow (18,0)
Gravity Falls (10,8)
Twilight Zone (14,18)
later seasons of Nip/Tuck (25,-25)
Original Scooby Doo (-15, -5)
posted by Rock Steady at 10:41 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Deadlands the TV Show
Paranoia the TV show
Call of Cthlulu the TV show
Wasteland the Video Game the TV Show
Beauty & The Beast Reboot

Hire me FX.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:41 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

OUAT is the show that I watch during the summer when Netflix updates their catalog so I don't have to make room for it during the normal TV season. It is not great, but it is watchable. I do wish they would just decide if Regina is just going to be evil no matter what, and god someone replace Henry.
posted by Kitteh at 10:42 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Take all the monies, Potomac. Paranoia!
posted by Rock Steady at 10:42 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

I keep peeking-in to Sleepy Hollow, but I've yet to make it through an entire episode, save for the first one. I think it's the police procedural bits grafted onto its flanks that turns me off.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:43 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

This is good you don't enjoy any of the things I love Potomac so you make a useful foil - tell me what other things do you hate that I can go enjoy?
posted by The Whelk at 10:43 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Maybe someday I can catch up via Netflix

It is already in reruns on FX somehow.

dark magicks presumably
posted by elizardbits at 10:44 AM on November 5, 2013

If we do not get a brief shopping montage wherein Ichabod is filled with confusion and dismay and finally reluctant acceptance I will be terribly cross.

SET TO THE LAVERNE AND SHIRLEY THEME YES
posted by The Whelk at 10:45 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

SET TO THE LAVERNE AND SHIRLEY THEME YES

For those special moments when Yakety Sax just won't do.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:47 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

No I want him skipping through Sleepy Hollow to the Mary Tyler Moore Show theme song

YOU'RE GONNA MAKE IT AFTER ALLLLL *sassy beret throw*
posted by elizardbits at 10:52 AM on November 5, 2013 [5 favorites]

tell me what other things do you hate that I can go enjoy?

Lesse, Arena Football? Chief Keef? Eli Roth? Have fun. ;)

I don't hate any of these things! I like silly entertainment a lot. I like gorgeous art design a lot. I just like taking the piss out of contemporary nerd fandom and think while its wonderful to love something in spite of its flaws you have to point out the flaws every now and then.

Anyway, Here you go rock steady, amended Believability Matrix.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:56 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Also based on my viewing of exactly 3 episodes, this show should hire me to do some crazy cstross Laundry series shit with American History. Virginia Dare! Roanoke! Ghost Dances! I can totally class up this joint with my spurious understanding of history! (Why was D.C chosen as a capitol and not an existing city, BECAUSE THE MARYLAND SWAP WAS THE CENTER OF MANY LEY LINES DUH, that's why we had to stop Le Enfant's orginal plan from being used! You fuckers put it back in place!)
posted by The Whelk at 10:57 AM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

I wouldn't say the show is great, but it's entertaining. What really works for me is the chemistry between the two leads; sometimes buddy shows have it without effort, sometimes they have to work hard scriptwise to make it work, sometimes it just ain't there no matter what the script says. SH is in the first category; they just flow.

And it doesn't hurt that this is the first genre show I can think of since since Eureka where I can expect two PoC women to have conversations on a regular basis.
posted by tavella at 11:01 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Seconding tavella in the sense that the chemistry between Abbie and Ichabod is great; also, I love love a show where it's not All White Dudes All the Time.

Just one White Dude. That I wish to bathe.
posted by Kitteh at 11:04 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

Oh please be hired The Whelk oh please

I can count on you for a Mr Darcy-style shirtless swimming scene, right? Plus Benedict Arnold being a secret werewolf and something cool with the Eleanor Dare Stones
posted by nicebookrack at 11:05 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

It's like Spike and Captain Jack Sparrow had a snarky leathery baby

That guy doesn't have nearly big enough hair to be Spike's baby. Do you mean Jet?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:07 AM on November 5, 2013

ALSO excellent casting of Craig Parker as the baddie last night.
posted by elizardbits at 11:07 AM on November 5, 2013

In other "British Guys Named Tom Who Are So Adorable IRL That You Just Want To Ask Them 'Seriously, How Are You For Real?'" happenings...
posted by zombieflanders at 11:07 AM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

I can count on you for a Mr Darcy-style shirtless swimming scene, right? Plus Benedict Arnold being a secret werewolf and something cool with the Eleanor Dare Stones

He has to SWIM THE DELAWARE OF COURSE. Plus! All the connections between New England maritime history and lovecraftian horrors!

(Switches over the Scribner - begins work on THE TERROR OF NIEUW AMSTERDAM )
posted by The Whelk at 11:09 AM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

This thread keeps getting derailed by All My Favorite Things, yay!
posted by nicebookrack at 11:10 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

It's basically that for American history. Which is awesome.

A thing whose existence I delight in, even though I've never read it, is Diana: Warrior Princess, a role-playing game in a setting that tries to do for English history what Xena: Warrior Princess does for Greek.

Diana, Princess of Wales rides around in shining white motorcycle leathers on a semi-sentient motorcycle, doing battle with the war-god, Landmines, and "Bonnie Prince" Charlie, from whom she took her mystic powers of royalty. Diana is aided by Fergie, the barbarian "Red Ken" and "Wild Bill" Gates, while Tony the Vampire Slayer battles the sorceress Thatcher and her masked assassin Archer.

posted by Zed at 11:10 AM on November 5, 2013 [7 favorites]

Oh oh oh Manderlay style out of time evil plantations that appear via magic, isolated mountain towns that "keep the old traditions" and prepare stockpiles for the apocalypse
posted by The Whelk at 11:10 AM on November 5, 2013

Sigh, I need an agent.
posted by The Whelk at 11:11 AM on November 5, 2013

Coulson?
posted by nicebookrack at 11:12 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

Sleepy Hollow needs a shot of Washington with a mason ring and schnauzer in his perfect hand.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 11:12 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

Guys, I've actually been INSIDE the Library of Congress in the crazy dead stacks room. There is no doubt in my mind there is some eldrich stuff hidden in a cardboard box on a shelf in there.
posted by The Whelk at 11:14 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Now, this is a story all about how
My life got flipped-turned upside down
And I'd like to take a minute, if y'all can follow,
I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Sleepy Hollow

In merry old England born and raised
Merton College was where I spent most of my days
Lecturin' and speechin' and teachin' all cool
And meetin' with the Masons every night after school
When I thought the Americans were up to no good
Joined His Majesty's Army like a loyal subject should
I said, "It's one little fight, and ya know I ain't yellow,"
But I never guessed what'd happen in the town of Sleepy Hollow.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:15 AM on November 5, 2013 [26 favorites]

As your Nemesis I feel I would make the ideal Agent. Memail for rates (ie your soul).
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:16 AM on November 5, 2013

The streets of Sleepy Hollow are stalked by Struwwelpeter! "Modern children's literature is so violent!" says Ichabod Crane.
posted by nicebookrack at 11:16 AM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

OH GOD I just remembered that bit from ALL AROUND THE TOWN where one of the first English governors of New York was like a crazy con-man son of a cousin who ruled like Rob Ford and was eventually sent back to England in shame and debt.

What if that was ALL A COVER

(dun dun dun!)
posted by The Whelk at 11:17 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

"Modern children's literature is so violent!" says Ichabod Crane.

GERMANIC FAIRYTALE MONSTERS STALK QUIET HUDSON VALLEY TOWNS YES I AM ON THIS
posted by The Whelk at 11:19 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Best crossover: Ichabod Crane is the great-great-uber-great-grand-uncle of Frasier and Niles.
posted by nicebookrack at 11:20 AM on November 5, 2013 [9 favorites]

Also re: baseball scene - I don't buy that he would profess such utter befuddlement at the existence of a game with bats and balls, as surely he would have been aware of the existence of cricket. Further, he would also have been aware of the intense rivalries and fannish enjoyment of local cricket supporters.

You say this like there aren't people today who walk around completely ignorant of modern mainstream sports and their rivalries.
posted by Atreides at 11:23 AM on November 5, 2013

He's bookish! It says so on his character sheet!
posted by Artw at 11:29 AM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

Since I've only seen three episodes has any hay been made form the fact that Paul Revere was a silversmith?

Like finding a lost silver-forged weapon against evil could fit.
posted by The Whelk at 11:32 AM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

Headcanon of bookish teenage nerd Ichabod sneaking off to re-read the salacious bits of Moll Flanders and Pamela, or Virtue Rewarded, ooh la LA
posted by nicebookrack at 11:35 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Also wonderful: John CHO. Make 3 bottle episodes and use the extra budget to kidnap CHO as a series regular!
posted by nicebookrack at 11:37 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Also wonderful: John CHO. Make 3 bottle episodes and use the extra budget to kidnap CHO as a series regular!

Only if they keep his head on right. That was freaking me out.
posted by sparkletone at 11:39 AM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

Potomac Avenue: Anyway, Here you go rock steady, amended Believability Matrix.

That's about right, Potomac, though American Horror Story should be furthest along on the Ridiculous axis. I find it hard to even conceptualize a narrative television show that is more Ridiculous than AHS. Maybe if Cronenberg made Videodrome: The Series?
posted by Rock Steady at 11:42 AM on November 5, 2013

Wait, wait, wait. We are questioning the historical validity of a show about a headless horseman brought back to life from revolutionary war era along with a soldier from the same era who is determined to stop said horseman from causing the apocalypse?

YOU PEOPLE ARE SO JADED.
posted by Kimberly at 11:43 AM on November 5, 2013 [5 favorites]

No way, if Revenant Crane isn't going to present with any traditional zombie traits, we need Cho for the undead body parts all comically askew.
posted by nicebookrack at 11:44 AM on November 5, 2013

determined to stop said horseman from causing the apocalypse WITH HIS MACHINE GUN
posted by nicebookrack at 11:46 AM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

I'm kind of glad I haven't watched the show, because while I usually allow a bit of leeway with historical accuracy in the shows I watch, something like the Middle English thing would drive me into an aneurysm. (Mrs. Example still refuses to let me watch Anonymous because she fears a full-on Scanners-style head explosion.)

Also:

In case you were wondering, [The Blacklist] is only good for hatewatching.

So true, with the possible exception of James Spader, who is fun to watch as a villain. I think the most annoying thing about it is the absolute and stunning uncreativity on display when it comes to the villains of the week--The Innkeeper, The Freelancer, The Stewmaker, The Courier...somewhere in the writing office there has to be one desk labeled "The Namer".
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:10 PM on November 5, 2013

Also the enjoyment of every role James Frain has ever played and will ever play is remarkably enhanced by the assumption that they were all alter egos of Franklin the vampire.

headcanonaccepted.gif
posted by The Whelk at 12:11 PM on November 5, 2013

Forney the Vampire in Where the Heart Is was delightful.
posted by nicebookrack at 12:14 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

something like the Middle English thing would drive me into an aneurysm.

Like with Fringe, where I assume it took place in a universe where The Frontean Times is a peer reviewed journal, after you reach a certain point in history inaccuracy you just pretend this takes place in a world where all those things happened cause otherwise you're screaming all the time.

Like the really frustrating shit are stuff that meets you half-way, does a lot of history due diligence and then pulls some crazy nonsense.
posted by The Whelk at 12:14 PM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

(I AM LOOKING AT YOU VIKINGS)

when will TV exces realize the key to getting a hit show in having it appear on elizardbits' tumblr?
posted by The Whelk at 12:15 PM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

So true, with the possible exception of James Spader, who is fun to watch as a villain. I think the most annoying thing about it is the absolute and stunning uncreativity on display when it comes to the villains of the week--The Innkeeper, The Freelancer, The Stewmaker, The Courier

All of this could be redeemed if they have an episode featuring The Swiper.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:39 PM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

The Butcher, The Baker, The Candlestick Maker.

(wait those could totally be Hannibal villians, nevermind)
posted by The Whelk at 12:42 PM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Plus Benedict Arnold being a secret werewolf and something cool with the Eleanor Dare Stones

it would be Benefict Arnold Cumberbatch of course.
posted by Artw at 12:43 PM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

The Whelk - I feel we are crossing over into Doom Patrol.
posted by Artw at 12:43 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Artw: it would be Benefict Arnold Cumberbatch of course.

I give you all of the favorites.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:53 PM on November 5, 2013

It as ridiculous fanservice but had to be done.
posted by Artw at 12:54 PM on November 5, 2013

Who else is watching The Blacklist to pre-emptively cross it over with Avengers 2? Reddultron, robot criminal mastermind!
posted by nicebookrack at 12:55 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

We are questioning the historical validity of a show about a headless horseman brought back to life from revolutionary war era along with a soldier from the same era who is determined to stop said horseman from causing the apocalypse?

YES WE ARE and furthermore I question his usage of "emancipated" in the first episode as he would have surely said "manumitted" instead.
posted by elizardbits at 1:04 PM on November 5, 2013 [12 favorites]

Sleepy Hollow abuses history in the same way that Iron Man abuses physics and Thor abuses mythology. Although Middle English in Roanoke was pushing it too far, and a wasted opportunity when they could have done frickin Vikings.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 1:09 PM on November 5, 2013

No, no, the Vikings in the Hollow-verse probably speak Latin.
posted by Wulfhere at 1:14 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

This thread is like when I discovered through livejournal that Supernatural was a lot more interesting than I realized (substitute tumblr/Teen Wolf as needed)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:32 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Abbie also said "Calvary" in the last episode when she meant "cavalry." BURN THE WRITERS
posted by nicebookrack at 1:34 PM on November 5, 2013

Abbie also said "Calvary" in the last episode when she meant "cavalry." BURN THE WRITERS

I just took this to mean that Abbie is the sort of person who says library as "lie berry."
posted by sparkletone at 1:35 PM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Is this show good? Please do not answer if you are one of the 1000 Mefites who told me Hannibal was brilliant, when it is essentially Dexter with a MFA in Design from Parsons.

No, Sleepy Hollow is not good in the slightest. Hannibal was a hot mess from start to finish. Other shows that are new and bad include: Hostages and The Blacklist. Shows that are new and good include: none. There are none new good shows.
posted by turbid dahlia at 1:41 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

I have been struggling to explain with words why I love Sleepy Hollow so and yet am utterly bored with other ridiculous-yet-earnest shows like Once Upon A Time and Agents of SHIELD (which I want so very much to love), and I just don't know how to explain it. Maybe it's the great chemistry between the characters? And stuff like this? I don't know. But I do love it despite the fact that I spend the first 10 minutes after the name Ichabod Crane is mentioned in any episode trying to get this out of my head. And they've even managed to get past the whole, "Good heavens, a negress! In pants! Outside of the home! And giant metal beasts roaming the streets!" and make Crane's man-out-of-time experiences endearing instead of eyerolly.
posted by rhiannonstone at 1:42 PM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

Sleepy Hollow has a population of 144,000 people (for Biblical reasons), making it about the same size as Syracuse, NY, so I assume it has replaced that city in all things. I've spent some time in Syracuse and can imagine a host of horrors beyond headless horsemen.

And that dead sherif wasn't very good at mystery collecting if he never noticed the local priest was actually a fucking chain swinging wizard immortal.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:14 PM on November 5, 2013

Other shows that are new and bad include: Hostages and The Blacklist.

Well, kinda, but it's like saying that both pancreatic cancer and diaper rash are bad. They are, but one is only a minor annoyance and the other kills you.
posted by Justinian at 2:17 PM on November 5, 2013

Hostages and The Blacklist also share a time slot and an actor some people thought they would watch in anything until this particular project.

(Will somebody please save Toni Collette from that show? That's the real hostage drama.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:24 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

And that dead sherif wasn't very good at mystery collecting if he never noticed the local priest was actually a fucking chain swinging wizard immortal.

It's been months since I last spotted my last chain swinging wizard immortal. They really blend in. I mean, REALLY blend in. You have to be looking for it.

I get driven into a near frothing mess over the casual manner that the show sucks at history, but in the periods of lunacy before and after, I find it extremely fun and entertaining. It's cavalier manner with the past is almost one of its attractive features - sort of like watching a daredevil perform a death defying stunt - you know it's stupid, but man, it's also fun to watch.
posted by Atreides at 2:27 PM on November 5, 2013

Agents of SHIELD is just boring, Partially because a cast of boring interchangeable characters, partially because it's so scared of its premise it runs to boring procedural territory every chance it gets - compare its pilot with the Sleepy Hollow pilot and it's full commitment to crazy shit.
posted by Artw at 2:35 PM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

I have been struggling to explain with words why I love Sleepy Hollow so and yet am utterly bored with other ridiculous-yet-earnest shows like Once Upon A Time and Agents of SHIELD (which I want so very much to love), and I just don't know how to explain it.

Because OUaT and SHIELD are ridiculous-yet-earnest while (thankfully so far) Sleepy Hollow is just plain ridiculous. Sleepy Hollow is the Scooby Doo gang eating brownies with Robert Anton Wilson and Charles Fort. And it helps having a cast that actually seem to work well together.

OUaT tries throwing everything and the kitchen sink into the cauldron with a Moral of the Week, that's rinsed away the next time they want Carlyle to chew the scenery (and even he seems tired of it.)

SHIELD, ugh. It can't decide if it wants to be a heroine show or an ensemble show, and fails at both. The relationships feel like they're performed in separate rooms and edited together (in many cases they are), and they've already recycled the pilot once.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:59 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

SHIELD is just....I still have trouble telling characters apart. Off my weekly watch list. (He said, preparing dinner in advance so we can really focus on Dean barking at the mailman tonight)
posted by The Whelk at 3:00 PM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

The worst part is the Agents of SHIELD will probably have more seasons than The Shield because some fans love anything that even smells like comics.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:11 PM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

SHIELD is just....I still have trouble telling characters apart.

I'm having trouble caring about any of the characters except Melinda May and Coulson and even they're pushing it.

The premise is great, normal people at ground zero as the world goes through this fantastic change. But it can't decide what's great or mysterious about that change, it's too busy trying to make us care about Skye, the super secret agent and their inevitable relationship.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:12 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

It would be interesting to rematch the first season of some beloved shows and see how they hold up ( Did this a bit with Buffy, the two part pilot is very strong but then ....wooooshing mediocrity. Supernatural's first season was so generic as to be nonexistent and Dear god the less said about the first few episodes of the X-Files the better. Angel was pretty consistent from the get go, but that's a spinn off, not a new property. Mad Men's pilot feels like an action movie compared with how things have shaken out now.)
posted by The Whelk at 3:16 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

OUaT became little more than an excuse to pull everything from the Disney Consumer Products trademark catalog for Carlyle and Parilla to diabolically threaten.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 3:17 PM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

I just watched the first season of OUaT, and while I largely don't give a crap about the Storybrooke characters (with the exception of Mr. Gold who is much less annoying than his Fairyland counterpart), I really love their twisty takes on familiar fairy tales. The reimagined Snow and Red Riding Hood are both fantastic. But then, I'm a sucker for retellings of classical stories that centre and empower their heroines, and am perhaps not the best judge of quality here.
posted by Phire at 3:29 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

The other intentionally-camp-and-ridiculous series that I am currently indulging in is Revenge. As the AV Club puts it:

"Knowing you can flip on this show every Wednesday and see a smart, pretty woman take down some smug rich asshole (who will also undoubtedly be established to totally deserve it) is a weirdly satisfying way to spend an hour. As much as this show revels in the ridiculously rich trappings of the Hamptons—polo, anyone?—there’s also an underlying sense of “Rich people: Fuck ‘em!” that feels right in keeping with current society’s overall climate. Never mind the fact that a very rich girl is herself doing the proverbial fucking: It’s still fun to watch them get fucked."

posted by Phire at 3:32 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

I watched most of the first season of OUaT, and I just got so irritated with the whole "he's my son! even though you legally adopted him and raised him from babyhood!" shtick. So much so that I couldn't even enjoy Parilla anymore. Boooo.

However, what I really love is that, over here, I get Bates Motel and Sleepy Hollow back-to-back.

Bates Motel is just awful, but I keep on watching it because then I get to make jokes like "Wow, Norman...are you feeling a little psycho there? Huh? Huh?"

And it makes Sleepy Hollow look like freakin' The Wire.
posted by Katemonkey at 3:42 PM on November 5, 2013

The main problem I have with Agents of SHIELD is that I just don't really give a shit about Phil Coulson.

THERE I SAID IT
posted by elizardbits at 3:59 PM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

But he might be a robot! That's eternally fascinating! Don't you want to hang on for every little clue that he might be a robot?
posted by Artw at 4:05 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

nope

not unless he is a robot that is piloted by a tiny fat frenchie in a boiler suit that lives inside his cranium and even that is only good for a one-time visual gag.
posted by elizardbits at 4:13 PM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

It's probably just all Kirby-tech in there.
posted by Artw at 4:18 PM on November 5, 2013

I find him less compelling when he's not in a tempestuous relationship with a heavy drinking Archer with blue collar affectations like a slightly less gay The Odd Couple.
posted by The Whelk at 4:19 PM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

Wait - there seriously are people who regard this show as historically accurate?. What are they, headless?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:22 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

I need to think of more insane Colonial era stuff the show can shove in. Dutch/English folk magic from the period is pretty cray.
posted by The Whelk at 4:25 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

SHIELD: I normally think "Mary Sue" is applied to too many things, but:

1. outsider with a mysterious past
2. attractive
3. criticism by other female characters who are framed as difficult to like
4. is inexplicably trusted by male leads
5. swoops in to fix things for more experienced teammates
6. has faults that turn out to be not really faults: (can't pull the trigger, is secretly looking for parents.)

I was just thinking that she was the show's Wesley Crusher, but even Wesley took at least three episodes to win Picard over.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 4:28 PM on November 5, 2013

That name doesn't help.
posted by The Whelk at 4:29 PM on November 5, 2013

The agents of shield that exists in my head is more of an office comedy where they occasionally go on missions, less pistols, more paperwork.
posted by The Whelk at 4:29 PM on November 5, 2013 [4 favorites]

...more a better off Ted-ish, basically.

" When you finish the indexing can you go down and make sure the Flaying Beast is well fed? We're starting to run out of kittens. Oh don't give me that look, you know who you work for."
posted by The Whelk at 4:31 PM on November 5, 2013 [5 favorites]

Part on of my scheme to rescue the show would absolutely be her suffering some kind of horrible death. But then I'd probably get kill crazy with the rest of the cast.
posted by Artw at 4:33 PM on November 5, 2013

She gets uploaded into an AI and just becomes a disembodied voice.
posted by The Whelk at 4:35 PM on November 5, 2013

God that would be annoying.
posted by Artw at 4:37 PM on November 5, 2013

They'd probably have nominal-romantic-interest get all angry too. He's duller than her, but has less actual characteristics to be annoyed by.
posted by Artw at 4:39 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Square bland passion meanders across the screen!
posted by The Whelk at 4:39 PM on November 5, 2013 [2 favorites]

I got sucked in to watching it based on this exchange about baked goods.

It's really about dollars and cents, though, isn't it? Which is weird, because dollars and cents weren't minted in the US until the 1790s, while Ichabod Crane is from the 1780s. Why would he be outraged by the prices of things in dollars and cents? Wouldn't he just think the exchange rate favoured the guinea or whatever?
posted by Sys Rq at 4:44 PM on November 5, 2013

The agents of shield that exists in my head is more of an office comedy where they occasionally go on missions, less pistols, more paperwork.

Part of why I am so disappointed in SHIELD is because I really thought it was going to be The Office with Superheroes. It fits pretty perfectly into the Whedon wheelhouse. Buffy was high school with monsters. Why not have The Office with Superheroes? Think of all the tension that could be created if their jobs were far more mundane, as they clean up after the likes of Tony Stark.

And it would probably make the characters into characters you might actually care about.

Grr. I was SO EXCITED for it.

Anyway... so I shall now be checking out Sleepy Hollow.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 4:49 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Oh my God I am watching the most recent episode of SH right now and when Abbie is hallucinating or whatever there is a totally unnecessary bird screech and I swear to you my first thought was, "If that is a goddamn bald eagle I am going to laugh until I pee and then throw my TV out the window."

This show. This show is so incredibly over the top. I love it.

Spoiler: it was a golden eagle. Sigh. Patriotic opportunity MISSED.
posted by WidgetAlley at 5:04 PM on November 5, 2013

Bet money that the call they used was a redtail call.
posted by rtha at 5:06 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

it totally was and i thought of you and lol'd
posted by elizardbits at 5:08 PM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

"Hey, intern!" Training Agent Morris is hit in the back of the head by one of Special Agent Krantz's hackey sacks. "Go organize the Stark incident reports.by date and damage payout." He crooked his thumb toward an open door.

"Incident reports?"

"The stuff we have to write down when Tony isn't behaving himself, insurance claims, bar tabs, de-programing and memory wipes.."

"Memory ...wipes?"

Special Agent Krantz delight in Morris' discomfort is obvious.

"Computer memory, he does something that requires legal action, we write it down and make it go away. The files are through there."

Morris walks into the open door to meet a stacked room full of gun-metal grey filing stacks and piles of papers spilling out from overstuffed manilla folders.

"They're in here?"

"Nope." Krantz begins to toss his hackey sack in the air. "That's them. Earliest should be somewhere in the back under the desk."

"Morris looks around the room trying to hide his mounting panic.

"I don't see a desk."

"You will. I'll be back at five to check in, don't disappoint me now Morris."
posted by The Whelk at 5:11 PM on November 5, 2013 [7 favorites]

God, coulson is the only character that is genuinely interesting so far. The show without him would be exponentially worse.
posted by neuromodulator at 5:12 PM on November 5, 2013

That is exactly what I wanted SHIELD to be, Whelk. So disappointed.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:27 PM on November 5, 2013

This is why I need an agent. Sigh.
posted by The Whelk at 5:28 PM on November 5, 2013

Sorry guys, I will only allow the cancellation of AoSHIELD if it means Coulson can return to the movie series and resume a buddy-cop bromance with Hawkeye and Sitwell. Melissa May can come along to give the flat incredulous stares at Tony Stark and the GOTG guy who is a tree.

We definitely need more Office-with-superheroes, though.
posted by nicebookrack at 5:29 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

We need to start MetaFilter Studios and then we can all have development deals.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:33 PM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

God, coulson is the only character that is genuinely interesting so far. The show without him would be exponentially worse.

The show without him would be unwatchable. I'm barely hanging in there with Agents of SHIELD on the slim hope that eventually something interesting will happen, but prospects are grim. Count me as another person who wanted SHIELD to be the "and this is what the bureaucrats and low-on-the-totem-pole field agents of SHIELD are doing while the Avengers are avenging." That had the potential to be both charming and fascinating, and Agents of SHIELD is instead somehow managing to be boring.

Sleepy Hollow may not be good per se, but by god, it commits to its crazy. Agents of SHIELD could stand to learn a lesson from that, and from Torchwood which similarly committed to its crazy while having human trainwreck protagonists.
posted by yasaman at 5:34 PM on November 5, 2013

I mean, I still think my Wildtype concept has legs.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:38 PM on November 5, 2013

And Emily, starring as Emily.
posted by The Whelk at 6:06 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

In Sleepy Hollow, as in most shows, I was distracted by the completely inappropriate use of law books as set decoration. Why do they have 6 random volumes of American Law Reports in their secret underground lair?
posted by interplanetjanet at 6:37 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

Why do they have 6 random volumes of American Law Reports in their secret underground lair?

Goodwill. Secret underground lairs cost a fortune to outfit, and they don't even have a budget for lasers.
posted by localroger at 6:53 PM on November 5, 2013

All the law libraries are throwing them out. They probably picked them out of a dumpster.
posted by interplanetjanet at 6:55 PM on November 5, 2013

They probably only got to one of the three dumpsters then before the law dump trucks arrived.
posted by localroger at 7:10 PM on November 5, 2013

Pretty sure that this is Sleepy Hollow canon

I've been faithfully watching Shield every week, but it's not something I've been excited about. I certainly didn't miss it while it was gone. And I can't imagine trying to get someone else to watch it.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:18 PM on November 5, 2013

Agents of SHIELD spoilers ahead:










I will admit that tonight on SHIELD (fuck the periods) there was a moment where I thought, "nah, they won't kill Simmons - oh fuck, it's Whedon, of course she'll die" but I got my senses back before she went out the back of the plane.

Right now I keep hoping it will get better or at least give us an Asgardian cameo to chew on during November.
posted by Ber at 7:44 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

This show does a valuable service by giving all of us underemployed history and literature majors a chance to show off, when we amaze our friends by pointing out anachronisms or other factual errors. People never get tired of that.

Seriously, though, St. John the Divine, Milton, and Blake all wrote different books in different centuries. You can't just lump them altogether into an Apocalypse encyclopedia.
posted by bibliowench at 7:51 PM on November 5, 2013

I liked the Coulson angst tonight. He knows deep down inside that he came back... wrong.
posted by Jacqueline at 7:56 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

AoS is so disappointing because there is so much they could've done with it and have utterly failed to do.

I mean even if you can't use Fury because Jackson is too expensive you could easily have used the remainder of the Sterenko characters like Quartermain, De Fontaine, Woo, Stitwell, Dugan, etc.

To go with a Coulson plus a totally generic team of blah is a major failure of developing this show and the failure to introduce a villain to hate like Strucker is almost unforgivable.

It's like the only point of this show is to introduce plot background for movies that might happen.

Anyway back to Sleepy Hollow, it's a fun show that is probably going to be nuked by Fox undermining it by moving it all over creation once their bevy of spring reality bullshit goes full steam.

Not even Spader scenery chewing is going to save Blacklist long term but NBC is so desperate for numbers that they will renew shows that don't really work that have even a glimmer of ratings success.
posted by vuron at 7:57 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

And the SHIELD Coulston angst was foreshadowed. In the background, "he can never know..." But of course he will. Whatever it is.
posted by localroger at 8:14 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

We definitely need more Office-with-superheroes, though.

Training Agent Morris adjusted his tie as he walked into the lower-level SHIELD office hidden underneath a very suspicious looking dry cleaners in SoHo. He was there to report for his new job as Communication intern, third class, to the rapidly expanding SHIELD bureaucratic corps. He was there to meet his new boss, Special Agent Robert Krantz.

Special Agent Krantz looked like a 99 cent store Tony Stark - one of those off brand models they sell in Chinatown labeled IRONS MEN. Even his Stark-inspired beard was patchy and uneven. He walked toward Morris with his pockets stuffed inside his long lab coat.

"Training Agent Morris?"

"Yes sir-" Morris extended his arm instinctively. "-let me just say what an honor it is to-"

Krantz stared at the outstretched hand. "Yeah we don't touch." Krantz turned around and walked through a set of double doors. "This way." They walked into a small windowless room with a man in uniform stationed at a small desk and office set-up. There was a big alien-looking gun strapped to the wall behind him but otherwise it was sparse and metallic.

"Anyway, this is our department secretary, Neil Wolk."

Wolk didn't look up from his paperwork and laptop screen. "Communications officer and liaison, first class. "

"So, yeah secretary. Why don't you get us some coffee and a bear claw?"

"Oh look, my hands they're just moving on their own." Wolk began typing. "They're filling out another complaint to HR, all by themselves, It's Asgardian mind control - it is impossible to resist." He slammed the enter key. Krantz turned to Morris.

"You don't fire the guy who designed all the tesseract-powered weapons."

"You designed the handle, I think they'll live."

"Hate you later Wolk." Krantz pushed up the other set of doors with his shoulder.

"This is the main office pod, all the workstations are over there, elevator to labs is on the right. You will notice there are no windows, no cameras, no internet-enabled phones, and most importantly, no mess. No documents left on desks." Krantz paused next to a desk with a pile of paper sitting on top. He picks them up and with a dramatic flourish, dumps them into the slot on the left wall marked INCINERATOR.

Morris blinked. "Where those not important?"

" Possibly. Possibly not. It's not my problem. We're real big on information security here. No paperwork left on desks, no photocopying without clearance, and if I so much as see a smartphone in your hands you'll be downstairs in the wet lab cleaning mice off the walls faster than you can say "unlicensed use of restricted devices."

Krantz smiled. "Clear?"

"Crystal."

They walked through the office bullpen and into a nearby break area. A man with a completely shaved head and no eyebrows was sitting over a pile of small white gears and bolts.

"Lopez, work happens at workstations."

"My workstation doesn't have a coffee machine in it."

"Because you abused that privilege - quite spectacularly."

"It wasn't working fast enough." Lopez snapped together two gears that had just been in completely different shapes a moment ago.

"This is Technician Lopez, he does all onsite repairs and specializes in exotic machinery. Don't worry, you'll never have to talk to him."

Morris looked at Lopez and watched him blink each eye rapidly and out of sync.

"If you're wondering why I'm blinking asynchronously it's because someone replaced half my brain with Chitatauri tech and now my hemispheres are out of whack."

Krantz leaned in close to Morris. "That's just something he says. We would never do that. Not without ...proper ethics board oversight."

Lopez blinked each eye again.
posted by The Whelk at 8:28 PM on November 5, 2013 [16 favorites]

A perfect Agents of SHIELD would have been exactly like a live-action Archer where you never actually saw Archer.
posted by WidgetAlley at 9:06 PM on November 5, 2013 [6 favorites]

genetically nicer China

Wow.

"Generically ancient china", I think that should read.
posted by Artw at 9:07 PM on November 5, 2013

So I watch it but I sorta have a hard time getting into it (and I watch A LOT of TV of varying quality, including OUAT and OUAT in Wonderland). I really really want to like it because despite all of it I think handles a lot of things pretty well, I really like Abby and she and Icabod have a really good dynamic and I have a really high tolerance for plot BS.

That being said I will forever be baffled by Icabods sheer Mary-Sueishness. Like I get it, he's one of the COOL old guys who's totally fine working with a black lady police officer despite his scoffing that she wears pants. That I can get cause no one likes an overt racist/sexist as their protagonist, but really? He also conveniently knows old English and seems to have a surprisingly fine time of adjusting to 20th Century life.

OUAT is just absurd and honestly I watch it just for the sort of train wreck. This seasons been finally starting to pick up but it's still not great. I Really, Really wanna like OUAT in Wonderland, I love their Alice and I really like the girl questing to rescue her man aspect of the plot. That being said their Queen of Hearts has zero charsima and while I dug him in lost, dude-from-lost-who's-now-Jafar also isn't doing it for me.
posted by KernalM at 9:19 PM on November 5, 2013

I haven't even tried watching OUAT in Wonderland because I am so scared of Naveen Andrews Jafar's awful hair.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:31 PM on November 5, 2013

hdu he is a precious elfin sex god
posted by elizardbits at 9:59 PM on November 5, 2013

The main problem I have with Agents of SHIELD is that I just don't really give a shit about Phil Coulson.

My god, it's true, you're not and never were human!

Tonight's shield episode was one the best so far, yet i still didn't give a damn about any of the characters, except Coulson and May. No, they aren't characters, just walking cliches that amount to nothing.

At this point, I should care that Brunette#2 is going to commit sucide, but I don't because all she does is hover in the background, spout tech babble and smile. There is zero explanation or hint of who she is as a person, herrelationship with short haired guy #2, why she works for shield, why she was picked for Coulson's special instead of no doubt thousands of other scientists and so on.

Sleepy Hollow, you know what the hell motivates the characters. He'll, you knew that after the first episode.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:14 PM on November 5, 2013

A perfect Agents of SHIELD would have been exactly like a live-action Archer where you never actually saw Archer.

MAY: Phil, your expense accounts are a mess, we're going to have to back-date every one of the itemizations.

PHIL: Every noun and verb in that sentence arouses me.
posted by The Whelk at 10:19 PM on November 5, 2013 [3 favorites]

I want to watch this SO BAD WHERE DO I KICKSTART?
posted by rhiannonstone at 11:14 PM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]

If Wayside Studios can do Fallout: Nuka Break so well to get a second season maybe I could pump out an INTERNS OF SHEILD.
posted by The Whelk at 12:03 AM on November 6, 2013 [2 favorites]

Ugh, way too late for this thread, but I want to say I ADORE Sleepy Hollow's all-in brand of complete ridonkulousness.

> Anyway back to Sleepy Hollow, it's a fun show that is probably going to be nuked by Fox undermining it by moving it all over creation once their bevy of spring reality bullshit goes full steam.

SH is only running for 13 eps a season, so it'll probably be over before the reality glut happens in the Spring. It's also already been renewed for a second season.

I've been pretty disappointed in Agents of SHIELD thus far, but I liked tonight's episode. It felt like a proper ensemble for the first time. Plus I want Coulson and May to get it on. They can glisten together and compare scars while the younglings make fun of Agent Wardbot.

...tell me there's fic of this?
posted by lovecrafty at 12:36 AM on November 6, 2013 [2 favorites]

I mean ..I have directing credits, I know actors ....

Oh god I could resurrect Dan.


oh god I could play him.
posted by The Whelk at 1:16 AM on November 6, 2013 [1 favorite]

In my head we get lots of late 20s Intern-Agents doing lots of paperwork and going home to shitty apartments and listening to old late 90s alt rock records, together. (SHIELD, unlike most organizations, actively encourages interoffice romance, cause it cuts down on the number of people needed to undergo security checks. )
posted by The Whelk at 1:21 AM on November 6, 2013 [1 favorite]

Actually, what I keep hoping for in AoS (aside from, yes, Coulson and May kicking ass and then filling out paperwork) is that because they keep on referring to the techies by their names smushed together ("Fitzsimmons"), that something will happen where they actually merge together and can change shape depending on who is talking at the time.

Which would be neat.

[Camera focused on Fitz]
Fitz: blah blah blah something about physics because I am physics
[camera switches to an unimpressed Phil]
Simmons: blah blah something biology or something
[camera switches back and it's Simmons]
[camera switches to Phil]
Phil: So bored of this bullshit.
[camera switches back and it's Fitz again]
Fitz: Blah blah blah I'm quirky!

That or they become conjoined not-quite-twins. Which would be awesomer.
posted by Katemonkey at 2:44 AM on November 6, 2013 [2 favorites]

Nicole Beharie's line readings of "I cannot believe I am saying this, I know it sounds stupid and crazy, but I want you to believe me anyway because I promise I wouldn't be saying this out loud at all unless I really really had to" are worth seeing. I can imagine her using this tone in describing her role to her friends.

Really -- the situation is completely ridiculous, but she knows it and she makes it work.
posted by amtho at 5:13 AM on November 6, 2013 [2 favorites]

Are the Wonder Twins Marvel-universe? Could Fitzsimmons turn into the Wonder Twins? They're really just a radioactive accident waiting to happen anyway.
posted by maryr at 7:47 AM on November 6, 2013

You made me look up the Wonder Twins. They were created by Hanna-Barbera for the SuperFriends, which was a show based on DC heroes. They were later in a DC comic book.

I guess they're memorable for their power phrase -- it's fun.
posted by amtho at 8:26 AM on November 6, 2013

That being said I will forever be baffled by Icabods sheer Mary-Sueishness. Like I get it, he's one of the COOL old guys who's totally fine working with a black lady police officer despite his scoffing that she wears pants. That I can get cause no one likes an overt racist/sexist as their protagonist, but really? He also conveniently knows old English and seems to have a surprisingly fine time of adjusting to 20th Century life.

Although there were planty of Enlightenment philosophers only interested in the natural human rights of white men, there were others like Montesquieu and Brissot arguing against slavery at the same time.* Bentham and de Condorcet both wrote about equality between the sexes and even women's suffrage. So, these concepts may not have been embraced by every man on the street, but I can buy them from an intellectual who ends up siding with the revolutionaries.

I have an OK time with his adjustment to modern life because he was a history professor before joining the Army. If he spent a lot of time thinking about how cultures radically change over the years, it might not be such a big mental hurdle for him to get over.

Heck, I'm just an amateur historian, and I've been known to spend hours sitting and wondering, "What would my ancestors from the 1400's think of my life in the 2000's, and what would I think of theirs?" so I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that Ichabod had spent some time pondering on, "What would my ancestors from the 1100's think of my life in the 1780's, and what would I think of theirs?" Thinking about the differences in eras' cultures could be good preparation for living in a brand new one yourself.

That said, I'm glad they spent so much of the last episode in flashback. They're going to have to walk a fine line with his adapting: we need it to be fast and thorough enough that it doesn't bog down the story every week because he doesn't know how do do enough things to get through the day, but not so fast and thorough that we lose the fish-out-of-water element that's half the premise of the show.

I was thinking more about it, and in addition to The X-Files, I'm reminded of the movie Warlock.

*During the Revolution, the Crown promised freedom to all slaves of rebel masters in New York, although that was more of a tactical move than a philosophical one
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:27 AM on November 6, 2013 [1 favorite]

Thanks to this thread, I started watching Sleepy Hollow last night and it did not disappoint. All the eps are on Hulu and the pilot is just totally bonkers in a way that ... I don't know if it works, as such, but they sell the shit out of it anyway. So thanks, you lot.
posted by gauche at 9:14 AM on November 6, 2013 [1 favorite]

the pilot is just totally bonkers in a way that ... I don't know if it works, as such, but they sell the shit out of it anyway.

I kept repeating this to myself both the night of the pilot and for several weeks after that. Eventually I had to give up and just admit that I kind of love this shithouse crazy little show whether it "works" or not by some more rigorous standard.

I'm also still entirely confused by the fact that SH is ... doing pretty well in terms of ratings. I'm so incredibly used to being the only one that loves it out of three people that even knows some tiny show exists.
posted by sparkletone at 10:13 AM on November 6, 2013 [2 favorites]

I kept repeating this to myself both the night of the pilot and for several weeks after that. Eventually I had to give up and just admit that I kind of love this shithouse crazy little show whether it "works" or not by some more rigorous standard.

Yeah, I'm kind of already there. On my drive to work this morning I kept trying to think of how I would describe the show to my wife.

"He's a time-displaced Yankee Doodle / Oxford Don(?) who wakes up in the present day. She's a hardened cop with a history of seeing demons. Together, they fight crime!
"Oh, and the Revolutionary War was a secret occult struggle to stave off the apocalypse.
"Oh, and George Washington was probably a witch.
"Oh, and the headless horseman is actually the Angel of Death.
"Oh, and the 'Make 7-Up Yours' guy, remember him? He's the police chief."

And I think every one of those sentences is amazing. Not even "together, they fight crime" makes sense when I think about it, but I'm in for the ride.
posted by gauche at 10:32 AM on November 6, 2013 [5 favorites]

Oh! It's on Hulu, well the three episodes I saw where in the middle and like ..on a plane as I slipped in and out of concussions - maybe I'll try the pilot...

(10 minutes later)

Okay I'm responding to everything with "IS THIS AN ADMIRALTY COURT?!" from now on.
posted by The Whelk at 10:35 AM on November 6, 2013 [4 favorites]

Your daily reminder that Orlando Jones is a national treasure.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:39 AM on November 6, 2013

Man, Pilot Ichabod is so damned prissy, it's delightful.
posted by The Whelk at 10:44 AM on November 6, 2013 [1 favorite]

The thing about Ichabod's thoughtfulness that gets me isn't that he's thoughtful. He's an enlightenment-era university professor, so I kind of expect that. It's how precisely his thoughtfulness lines up with 2013 morals and values that leaves me meh on occasion. Still, thats a small quibble about a really fun show.

(Agents of SHIELD, I want to love you, but May and Coulson are the only ones I care about. My friends call the rest of them "the catalog models" and it's SO TRUE.)
posted by immlass at 11:00 AM on November 6, 2013

Any show where characters scream THE ANSWERS ARE IN WASHINGTON'S BIBLE gets a pass.
posted by The Whelk at 11:08 AM on November 6, 2013

Twist, it turns out Ichabod is really racist against the Swiss, it just never comes up.
posted by The Whelk at 11:09 AM on November 6, 2013 [2 favorites]

I hope that on the season 1 dvd extras there are a bunch of unsavoury limericks allegedly composed by John Adams.
posted by elizardbits at 11:20 AM on November 6, 2013 [1 favorite]

and maybe a coupon for timbits
posted by elizardbits at 11:22 AM on November 6, 2013

"Oh no, another pile of Ben Franklin's erotic fanfiction."
posted by The Whelk at 11:24 AM on November 6, 2013 [1 favorite]

"Oh no, another pile of Ben Franklin's erotic fanfiction."

Oh man, you really need to look up the Franklin side mission from Assassin's Creed 3.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:36 AM on November 6, 2013

I am so sick of those goddamn diary pages. I am the fucking worst virtual pickpocket ever.
posted by elizardbits at 11:38 AM on November 6, 2013

Guys please please tell me there is Sleepy Hollow / Assassin's Creed fic in which Ichabod and Ratonhnhaké:ton/Connor are Revolutionary BFFs.

I don't even play AC and I NEED THIS TO HAPPEN.

Ichabod was buddies with the Mohawk! Totally canon!
posted by nicebookrack at 11:40 AM on November 6, 2013 [2 favorites]

YULETIDE
posted by elizardbits at 11:42 AM on November 6, 2013

Alright history nerds, was the tax rate in England actually less than 2% in the 1780s? I could see why Crane would think it might be a high rate for a colony with little government services, but England had a large military. Surely they were taxing more than 2%? Also, would a professor from that time period really not understand the concept of inflation?
posted by Thoughtcrime at 12:04 PM on November 6, 2013

> Guys please please tell me there is Sleepy Hollow / Assassin's Creed fic in which Ichabod and Ratonhnhaké:ton/Connor are Revolutionary BFFs.

I want this!!! Except SH has gone and made the masons/Templar Knights the GOOD GUYS. Thus far, at least. And Washington does not come out of AC3 smelling like a rose, let me tell you.
posted by lovecrafty at 12:14 PM on November 6, 2013

I don't think there was a tax rate, as such, in England at all. There were specific taxes and tariffs that could be of various rates (sometimes quite high), and Parliament could order levies on landowners, of which there were several in the late 1790s (very useful for genealogical research.) But there was no income tax, AFAIK.

It's possible that a researcher has argued that the overall tax burden of all of those was only 2 percent of the income total, but I wouldn't necessarily trust that number without good peer review. Tends to be a politically slanted subject.
posted by tavella at 12:30 PM on November 6, 2013

Though Ichabod was complaining about a sales tax, wasn't he? I don't think the UK had any kind of general sales/VAT tax until the 20th century, it was individual categories of goods.
posted by tavella at 12:53 PM on November 6, 2013

when will TV exces realize the key to getting a hit show in having it appear on elizardbits' tumblr?

It's true. One of these days I'm going to end up watching fucking Teen Wolf.

I just don't really give a shit about Phil Coulson.

But her influence on me just waned.

I think I like SHIELD more than most of you, and I felt like the last episode finally started dialing up the sass to appropriate levels, but I am shocked to find myself liking the Hollers more than anything else that's on right now.
posted by flaterik at 2:09 PM on November 6, 2013 [1 favorite]

They need to hire Kate Beaton as a consultant.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:02 PM on November 6, 2013 [2 favorites]

I think the latest "hey, wait a minute..." moment of the last Sleepy Hollow episode for me was the introduction of Katrina as an eighteenth century Quaker witch, without a hint of plain speech in conversations between Ichabod and Abbie.

And Irving has to be a plant, because in spite of repeatedly giving speeches about how skeptical he is, his role on the show is to give Abbie a blank check for crazy and cover it up.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 6:56 AM on November 7, 2013

Orlando Jones @ HuffPo:

The Fandom Menace

It's no secret that Sleepy Hollow is one of the surprise hits of this television season, renewed for a second season after airing just three episodes. The audience response has been tremendous, demonstrated by the countless fan pages that began appearing shortly after the show's premiere.

The Sleepy Hollow Fandom immediately embraced the plots, characters and relationships, creating and sharing their own original art and stories (fan fiction, or fanfic, for short). They are legion, but the epicenter of their interaction is on Tumblr, the most exciting social platform on these streets that celebrates diversity, demands accountability (or at the very least authenticity) and promotes a level of interaction that is unlike anything I've experienced. Far more thoughtful analysis of the Tumblr phenomenon can be found elsewhere, but I can only say that it has completely transformed how I interact with fans and I ain't ever going back.
[...]
You'll find no shortage of me on the interwebs -- I'm on Twitter, Tumblr, Instagram and all points in between (what happens on Snap Chat stays on Snap Chat). I create and share GIFs and memes like a veritable boss. I comment, respond and interact with the Fandom in any way possible, including live blogging and answering questions on a marathon-length Reddit AMA. I live tweet during East Coast and West Coast airings of the show. I do these things for my own enjoyment -- and hopefully, yours. But even if I wasn't part of the Sleepy Hollow cast, I'd still be part of the Fandom. They've welcomed me in, and I'm grateful for their hospitality, humor and support (even those skeptics who are waiting for "the other shoe to drop")

Some say all this fan interaction could be construed as breaking the fourth wall -- the invisible boundary between artist and audience. I think it's fair to say that any wall separating me and the Fandom is forever broken, à la Berlin circa 1989. I strongly believe in acknowledging and interacting with the audience, eliminating barriers of all kinds, and making real connections with people whenever possible. If that's wrong, I sure as hell don't want to be right. I didn't choose the fangirl life; it chose me.

I invite all Sleepy Hollow fans -- both casual and obsessed -- to keep watching. Trust me when I tell you we've only just begun.

posted by zombieflanders at 7:11 AM on November 7, 2013 [2 favorites]

I'm not 100% convinced that Katrina was actually living as a Quaker full-time. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that she just claimed to be one whenever it was convenient to get her into someplace.

Then again, they're probably just using the TV convention of turning on the Universal Translator during flashbacks.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:13 AM on November 7, 2013

Orlando Jones is a precious gem among humans, and I wish to welcome him among His People in fandom by carrying him in a golden litter through Dragon*Con or by making him red velvet cupcakes.
posted by nicebookrack at 12:14 PM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

It just occurred to me because of the Orlando Jones/fandom talk that I'm pretty sure there was an SDCC panel for this show before it aired... But now that it's more or less caught on (at least by first season of crazy genre show standards)... How hilarious and insane next year's will be? Not to mention panels at other places post-starting to air.
posted by sparkletone at 1:18 PM on November 7, 2013

'“Ichabod’s clothes are his security blanket, his tie to the past,” Kurtzman says. “That being said, he will soon discover the joys of dry cleaning and the grave injustice of the bill that accompanies it.”'
posted by brundlefly at 1:53 PM on November 7, 2013 [2 favorites]

NEVER DRY CLEAN, ICHABOD, IT IS THE DEVIL

Wait, where the heck is Ichabod getting money for dry cleaning? Where is he living? Is Abbie putting a can of tuna out for him at night like a cat?
posted by nicebookrack at 4:33 PM on November 7, 2013 [4 favorites]

Wait, where the heck is Ichabod getting money for dry cleaning? Where is he living? Is Abbie putting a can of tuna out for him at night like a cat?

Meow.

He moved into Sheriff Corbin's secret cabin on the lake, which may or may not have been willed to the Mills sisters. Maybe they'll do something fun with his money problems, like reveal that the Freemasons owe him 240 years of back rent on NYC property.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 6:59 PM on November 7, 2013 [2 favorites]

He's undead, guys. There's not really any evidence he needs to eat.
posted by maryr at 7:22 PM on November 7, 2013

That doesn't really do anything for the "Ichabod smells" theory.
posted by Artw at 7:25 PM on November 7, 2013

There's not really any evidence he needs to eat.

Except for donut holes.
posted by localroger at 7:51 PM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

Maybe they'll do something fun with his money problems

Getting him a modern identity capable of paying taxes or claiming an inheritance would be a pretty neat trick. For practical purposes he's an undocumented illegal alien in the modern US. If it wasn't set in the weird alternate universe where it's set he'd have probably already been shot by a cop for one of his principled outbursts.
posted by localroger at 8:08 PM on November 7, 2013

Set up for a Season opener where it turns out he's the heir to good chunk of land and an old , grand farm house.


Problem: the house is owned by the historical society, he can live in it, but they have to keep it open for tours.

Ichabod becomes indignant - not because of the tours, but because they are SO WRONG. He starts doing them himself, and the tips he gets is his petty cash for missions.
posted by The Whelk at 8:20 PM on November 7, 2013 [5 favorites]

So, Orlando Jones is becoming the Misha Collins of Sleepy Hollow?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:45 AM on November 8, 2013 [3 favorites]

Less aggressively weird but yes.
posted by The Whelk at 6:50 AM on November 8, 2013

My assumption, which may or may not be warranted, is that whatever expenses Ichabod is incurring are still being directly paid by the PD. Of course they can't be reimbursed to him or in the form of a paycheck, but they could be paid by and then reimbursed to Abby, or paid with a department credit card. I think it's probably still under whatever system they use for putting a witness up in a motel for the night, and they're stretching it out for as long as they can get away with under the Who'll Notice Under All These Mountains of Paperwork Principle.

Eventually, as with the mangy coat, they'll have to come up with a more sustainable arrangement. Maybe they'll pay him in Target gift cards, like we sometimes have to do with our casual temp student workers (with their enthusiastic consent, obtained ahead of time) when the accounting gets tricky.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:51 AM on November 8, 2013

Maybe he is like a cicada and only has to come to the surface to eat donut holes and breed every couple of hundred years or so?
posted by Artw at 7:54 AM on November 8, 2013 [3 favorites]

I didn't say he couldn't eat, just that he didn't need to. BTW, I just googled "Can vampires eat food?" and not only did Google auto-complete the search term for me, but the first result is from Yahoo Answers and the top answer is posted in the first person. So I'm saying all is well on the internet this morning.

Anyway, The Whelk's plan is brilliant and absolutely in line with the spirit of the show.

(Although it makes me realize another huge inaccuracy of the show - Ichabod is way too tall to be believably Revolutionary.)
posted by maryr at 8:00 AM on November 8, 2013 [1 favorite]

...and breed every couple of hundred years or so?

VOLUNTEERING
posted by Kitteh at 8:37 AM on November 8, 2013 [2 favorites]

While all three are taller than average during the time of the Revolutionary War, I suspect Ichabod looks so impossibly tall because he's forever standing next to Nicole Beharie (Abbie) who is 5'1".*

As a side note, one of the things I've noticed about Elementary is the tendency to put Joan in heels except when she's out on a run. It's hard to find good shots, but Beharie seems to be wearing eyelet boots with a bit of lift.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:53 AM on November 8, 2013

Reportedly, her conversation shots with Clancy Brown were seated due to the height difference. I think it's a performance advantage because multiple scenes depend on her walking right up to an antagonist and pulling the cop or prophet of god voice.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:58 AM on November 8, 2013

My bad, I just assumed they were all short given the ridiculousness of the tour I had of Paul Revere's house. Even I had to duck at times.
posted by maryr at 10:59 AM on November 8, 2013

Paul Revere was secretly a hobbit.
posted by The Whelk at 11:52 AM on November 8, 2013

Okay but what I really want is for Abbie to sit Ichabod down and make him watch 1776.
posted by elizardbits at 11:57 AM on November 8, 2013 [2 favorites]

And National Treasure.
posted by elizardbits at 11:58 AM on November 8, 2013 [1 favorite]

And say they're both documentaries
posted by The Whelk at 12:01 PM on November 8, 2013

wait .."
George Washington did not have wooden teeth. His dentures were made of gold, hippopotamus ivory, lead, and human and animal teeth (including horse and donkey teeth)."


EPISODE WITH WASHINGTON'S CURSED DENTURES.
posted by The Whelk at 12:11 PM on November 8, 2013 [4 favorites]

Dramatic villain chase across Washington's nose at Mount Rushmore!
posted by nicebookrack at 12:55 PM on November 8, 2013

Ri¢hie Ri¢h already did it.
posted by maryr at 1:05 PM on November 8, 2013

Real Life Mysteries that would Make Great Sleepy Hollow Episodes...

The first one had me praying that the producers would see this article. It involves the characters going to Colonial Williamsburg. THINK OF IT. Ichabod at Colonial Williamsburg. That's easily two episodes of gold waiting to be mined!
posted by Atreides at 8:18 AM on November 9, 2013 [4 favorites]

I love that idea cause it could also function as meta joking about the shows' ....creative approach to history.
posted by The Whelk at 8:55 AM on November 9, 2013

OK, and now we know Ichabod leaves the best voicemails evar.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:14 PM on November 11, 2013

YESSSS Crane vs lazy historian! JUSTICE
posted by nicebookrack at 6:41 PM on November 11, 2013

"Flummoxed by a foreign concept that resembles close to nothing of what you know? I can't imagine how that feels." Oh, Icky, you're so sassy.
posted by nicebookrack at 6:44 PM on November 11, 2013

But all of this pales in comparison to Crane vs INTERNET PORN
posted by nicebookrack at 6:48 PM on November 11, 2013

And we have this thing called DNA testing now ... you don't really know some people.
posted by localroger at 7:01 PM on November 11, 2013 [2 favorites]

I actually found the bits of Crane vs. the Internet kind of unrealistic and contrived. I mean, he just pounds on the keyboard as frustrated people who don't understand things will do, and comes up first on a gun worship site and then on video internet porn? The latter when there isn't even a browser running?

It's been established that Crane is a very intelligent and literate man, and he is mostly unfazed by modern miracles. It's established that he knows how to print from the browser. I think that implies a bit more understanding of the rest of the user interface than was portrayed.
posted by localroger at 7:30 PM on November 11, 2013

Oh, and when this is all over and Crane finally gets to visit Washington DC, this is going to make his visit to the Jefferson memorial a bit awkward.
posted by localroger at 7:33 PM on November 11, 2013

Because of course Ichabod leaves voicemails that sound like letters of his day as read in a Ken Burns documentary....

It occurred to me while watching this week's episode that this show is pushing the same "lunatic alternate history" button that the encyclopedia bits of the better Assassin's Creed games did, and that's part of why I have such a soft spot for it (not that there aren't quite a few other reasons).
posted by sparkletone at 9:55 PM on November 11, 2013

It occurred to me while watching this week's episode that this show is pushing the same "lunatic alternate history" button that the encyclopedia bits of the better Assassin's Creed games did, and that's part of why I have such a soft spot for it (not that there aren't quite a few other reasons).

I don't know if it's intentional or not, but there's a bunch of parallels between the show and the AC series, particularly AC3. The deconstruction of the Founders As Heroes myths, the insistence on accuracy for some historical events while going off-script on others, even the many tunnel sequences always leading to some secret area beneficial to the Assassins/Masons. I'm kind of loving it.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:31 AM on November 12, 2013

I did love having two black characters cheerfully detail TJ's issues and Ichabod's being quietly flummoxed, just as side conversation while they are setting up their trap. That's the kind of nice detail that makes Sleepy Hollow so enjoyable. I mean, the fact that they actually *have* two characters in a position to do that in a show that isn't aimed at a black audience is nice in itself, but I do like the way they balance out Ichabod's reverence for certain of his former comrades with modern knowledge. Makes it less one-sided.
posted by tavella at 11:11 AM on November 12, 2013 [5 favorites]

I did love having two black characters cheerfully detail TJ's issues and Ichabod's being quietly flummoxed, just as side conversation while they are setting up their trap

Agreed, I loved this, especially Irving and Abbie's near-glee. I kinda like that we're getting some info via Ichabod's "I know the sekrit magic secrets lost to time, and also Olde Englishe!" and some info via modern policing's "We know how to get DNA from the skeletons in the closet, and we have UV lamps!"

I had an embarrassing moment of giddiness when Abbie and Irving are talking and another officer pokes her head into his office to pass on a phone message. "Look! Look! THREE black characters talking to each other onscreen!!" Get John Cho (YAY CONTINUED JOHN CHO) in there and we may break some fantasy TV POC record.
posted by nicebookrack at 11:26 AM on November 12, 2013 [2 favorites]

Though in retrospect now I'm a little sad that it will probably not be revealed that Sally Hemmings was a ninja vampire slayer.
posted by nicebookrack at 11:28 AM on November 12, 2013 [2 favorites]

I had an embarrassing moment of giddiness when Abbie and Irving are talking and another officer pokes her head into his office to pass on a phone message. "Look! Look! THREE black characters talking to each other onscreen!!" Get John Cho (YAY CONTINUED JOHN CHO) in there and we may break some fantasy TV POC record.

Don't forget about Morales!
posted by zombieflanders at 11:35 AM on November 12, 2013

Between normal-patronizing Morales with his "I just want to jealously question all your life choices, Abbie! And/or freak out at you because of Undead John Cho," and creepy-patronizing Undead John Cho with his "I just want to stalk you WITH LOVE from beyond the grave, Abbie!"—I feel Abbie is going to be headdesking a lot, and deservedly so.

(I know Undead John Cho has a character name, but it's going to be a few more episodes with him before my brain stops its automatic "JOHN CHOOOOOO!" at the sight of him.)
posted by nicebookrack at 11:46 AM on November 12, 2013

I know Undead John Cho has a character name

Yeah, but they can't seriously expect us to use it when the alternative is something as catchy as "Undead John Cho." If they wanted us to choose his canon name over that, they should have named him Digby Q. Horsefeathers or something.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:08 PM on November 12, 2013 [3 favorites]

The Choverlord.
posted by Uncle Ira at 12:24 PM on November 12, 2013 [5 favorites]

His name is Andy Brooks which my mind kept correcting to Mel Brooks which is inconvenient because it made me imagine Carl Reiner as the Horseman.
posted by elizardbits at 1:36 PM on November 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

Who IS playing the Horseman? Same actor each time or Random Stunt Guy O' the Week? I don't actually want a Headed Horseman unless it's Christopher Walken with fang teeth. But it must be a formidable acting challenge, emoting with zero lines or facial expressions.

Still some sense of (evil) personality seeps through, like the Horseman's obvious glee at his shiny new machine gun. (he names it Vera.) And there's a fight scene in ep 1 or 2 in which IIRC Ichabod refuses to die or stop attacking; Horseman goes "Getting real tired of your shit Crane" and tries to stride ominously away; Ichabod attacks again; Horseman loses his cool and starts slapping the crap out of Crane.
posted by nicebookrack at 8:49 PM on November 12, 2013

IMDB says Richard Cetrone, who apparently was also the guy in the suit for the first Iron Man movie.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:44 PM on November 12, 2013

I AM HEADLESS IRONMAN
posted by The Whelk at 10:09 PM on November 12, 2013

His character also does not fit the name Andy Brooks at ALL. C'mon. We need at least a hint of menace in the name somewhere. Or maybe a neck pun. Something snappy.
posted by maryr at 9:32 AM on November 14, 2013

nicebookrack: "Still some sense of (evil) personality seeps through, like the Horseman's obvious glee at his shiny new machine gun."

There's a moment where he goes to put his gun in the back holster, and I thought for a moment he was about to stick it down his neck hole. Which would have been AMAZING.
posted by brundlefly at 9:46 AM on November 14, 2013

Although "Undead John Cho" is better, I found myself calling him "John Cho and his Neckfolds."
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:40 AM on November 14, 2013 [2 favorites]

Thoughts from tonight:

1) "a byproduct, perhaps, of years spent negotiating with the French." S I C K B U R N, ICHABOD.

2) ... Aww. Lonely malevolent horse is lonely. :(

3) ... Kinda shipping Orlando Jones and Abbie's sister a little.

4) How does this show get away with such long pre-credits sections on top of the previously-on? This one is, like, 15 minutes into the show.

5) God damn, the guy in the Horseman suit is good at conveying a lot with just body language.

6) JOHN CHO CONTINUES TO FREAK MY SHIT OUT.

7) Spinny glass instrument thing: The theremin of its day?

8) ORLANDO "NECK SNAP" JONES!!!

9) UM. SHIT. SHIIIIIIIITTTTTT. Also: 2 hours to repair all that explosion? Ooookay.

10) CHO. WHAT THE FUCK, MAN. WHAT ARE YOU DOING. AAAAHHHGHUSELSEFHEFLSEF.

11) Splodey supernatural bad guys that Cho summoned making me think of Buffy, but only just a little.

12) Horseman wants to fight fair and arms Ichabod? Weird, but okay.

13) OMG. I feel like I should've seen that reveal coming. BUT OMG.

Man, that was one fine-ass piece of TV.
posted by sparkletone at 9:44 PM on November 18, 2013 [2 favorites]

2 hours to repair all that explosion?

Redundancy in the power grid. All they have to do is bypass it. The surprising thing is that the power stayed out for 2 hours when they only hit one substation. Normally it would blink once or twice then fail over to an alternate route.

/pedantic Seconding that was one of the finest hours of series TV I've seen in a long time. I have a bad feeling about how SHIELD is going to look by comparison tonight.
posted by localroger at 5:15 AM on November 19, 2013

Redundancy in the power grid. All they have to do is bypass it. The surprising thing is that the power stayed out for 2 hours when they only hit one substation. Normally it would blink once or twice then fail over to an alternate route.

Ah. That hadn't occurred to me. I guess I'm used to thinking of things like storms knocking out the power for longer, but now that I think about it, that's a lot more damage over a lot larger an area generally speaking.
posted by sparkletone at 6:27 AM on November 19, 2013

7) Spinny glass instrument thing: The theremin of its day?


Glass armonica! I've seen one played in person, much better than it was on the show last night! Of course, the best music written specifically for the instrument was written after the 1770's, but they could have come up with something better than "Greensleeves."

Undead John Cho was looking kind of Grandpa, but I guess that's pretty good when you're dead.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:06 AM on November 19, 2013

Possibly my favorite moment was Irving going "Ya might want to check your math." I love a guy who doesn't instantly forget his mundane resources when he's initiated into the Secret World. Also a show that doesn't punish him for using them.
posted by tavella at 9:06 AM on November 19, 2013

Looking at the Wiki article on the glass armonica, I wonder if we'll be seeing it again. Not only was it invented by Benjamin Franklin, it fell out of use partly among rumors originating mostly with Germans that it could drive its player or listeners mad.
posted by localroger at 9:39 AM on November 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

I suppose "Greensleeves" could have been in honor of Katrina. Her dress looked blue to me at the time, but I have trouble telling some shades of light blue from light green.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:55 AM on November 19, 2013

It seems that Orlando Jones has been having a bit of fun with the Supernatural community.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:58 PM on November 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

From above link:

EDIT: ORLANDO JONES HAS TWEETED THE POST GUYS OH MY GOD THIS IS NOT A DRILL SEMPAI NOTICED US

God bless you, fandom_wank. Go in peace.
posted by maryr at 7:39 PM on November 25, 2013 [2 favorites]

Coincidentally, this episode of sleepy hollow felt like the best episode of supernatural I've seen in a while.

And it only took 11 minutes to get to the title card!
posted by dinty_moore at 8:07 PM on November 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

There was lots to like this week, but I couldn't help noticing how messed up Ichabod's clothes got. Could next week be the hoped for clothing upgrade?
posted by sparkletone at 9:44 PM on November 25, 2013

"These 'Cargo Pants' are most practical."
posted by Artw at 5:27 AM on November 26, 2013 [1 favorite]

YOU GUYS!

Victor Garber joins 'Sleepy Hollow' as Ichabod Crane's father


I have never felt more like a show was targeting ME as the specific demographic who should watch it.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:16 AM on December 3, 2013 [1 favorite]

I didn't get a good enough look at the swarm of black birds presiding over the birth of Ichabod's son to see if they were crows or ravens (corvus, corbeau, korb, corvino, corvo), but can it be a coincidence that Abbie's mentor and father figure was named Corbin? Abbie, who's descended from the midwife?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:00 AM on December 3, 2013 [2 favorites]

MCMikeNamara: "Victor Garber joins 'Sleepy Hollow' as Ichabod Crane's father"

Yes.

Yes.
posted by brundlefly at 12:53 PM on December 3, 2013