We can't "make" women
December 31, 2013 2:05 PM Subscribe
This post was deleted for the following reason: Heya, this needs a lot more context if it's worth posting about, and in general I'd say that impulsive curiosity about what mefites might say about something you think is sucky is not a good reason to make a post to the front page. -- cortex
This makes The Information look pretty awful. And if they were just publishing free articles online like other tech pubs, that'd be one thing. But for a site charging $400/yr for higher quality journalism... Well, this could be deadly.
Sooo....it's more like "The Misinformation," zing!.........
posted by honor the agreement at 2:16 PM on December 31, 2013
Sooo....it's more like "The Misinformation," zing!.........
posted by honor the agreement at 2:16 PM on December 31, 2013
Here's the Information founder Jessica Lessin's reply to his reply.
posted by griphus at 2:17 PM on December 31, 2013
posted by griphus at 2:17 PM on December 31, 2013
I think that this post would be better with some more context. What I have gotten from reading Paul Graham's page is that this interview has gone "viral" because, I suppose, it made him appear outrageously sexist. But I haven't seen any of this "viral" coverage and until chasing linked the interview, I hadn't seen that either.
What is it about this particular outrage that is important and worth my attention? Is it the implications for the publication in which the "interview" appeared? Is it because Paul Graham is important in his field? Something else? Those things and something else?
I'm not saying it's not important, but if it is, can someone explain it to me?
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:19 PM on December 31, 2013 [4 favorites]
What is it about this particular outrage that is important and worth my attention? Is it the implications for the publication in which the "interview" appeared? Is it because Paul Graham is important in his field? Something else? Those things and something else?
I'm not saying it's not important, but if it is, can someone explain it to me?
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:19 PM on December 31, 2013 [4 favorites]
Explained: why people are angry at Paul Graham by Danilo Campos:
He doesn’t seem to have been misquoted too dramatically, but he’s tied no one to railroad tracks either. His perceptions, made public, do explain a lot about why it’s such a challenge for certain folks to get funding for their technology venture"posted by Space Coyote at 2:20 PM on December 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
...
There’s a few problems with this. Y Combinator launched in 2005 with the batch that brought us Reddit. In 2005, 20% of CS Bachelor’s degrees were awarded to women, along with 28% of CS Master’s degrees.
What was the percentage of women who co-founded a YC company in 2005?
0%.
(She's also the editor-in-chief; I have no idea if that is implied by "founder" but she's speaking as an editor in that.)
posted by griphus at 2:20 PM on December 31, 2013
posted by griphus at 2:20 PM on December 31, 2013
Saw, that, griphus. And, yeah, her defense seems to drive home Graham's point. Graham isn't speaking very eloquently in that bit of the interview, but "these" pretty clearly (in my mind) refers to women who don't have a deep programming background.
It's arguable as to whether someone needs to have been a hacker since 13 to successfully start-up tech a company. But. Leaving the "these" out totally changes the meaning.
What if he'd said "these people" and then Lessin had omitted the "these?" That's just about the same thing, except saying "We can’t make women look at the world through hacker eyes" sounds inflammatory and "We can’t make people look at the world through hacker eyes" sounds non-sensical.
posted by chasing at 2:24 PM on December 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's arguable as to whether someone needs to have been a hacker since 13 to successfully start-up tech a company. But. Leaving the "these" out totally changes the meaning.
What if he'd said "these people" and then Lessin had omitted the "these?" That's just about the same thing, except saying "We can’t make women look at the world through hacker eyes" sounds inflammatory and "We can’t make people look at the world through hacker eyes" sounds non-sensical.
posted by chasing at 2:24 PM on December 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry I didn't include more context. Thanks everyone for filling in the blanks.
I read this article as a bad apology on behalf of diversity and inclusivity in ycombinator, and impulsively wanted to know what the fine people on Metafilter had to say about it.
posted by oceanjesse at 2:25 PM on December 31, 2013
I read this article as a bad apology on behalf of diversity and inclusivity in ycombinator, and impulsively wanted to know what the fine people on Metafilter had to say about it.
posted by oceanjesse at 2:25 PM on December 31, 2013
It's not an apology at all. It's a clarification.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 2:27 PM on December 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 2:27 PM on December 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also, I don't want to completely defend Graham on the issue of women in tech. I went to the YCNYC meet-up event thing a couple of years ago and out of several hundred people, I counted on the order of ten women present. It felt really, really weird. And repellent.
posted by chasing at 2:29 PM on December 31, 2013
posted by chasing at 2:29 PM on December 31, 2013
My takeaway here, after reading the source bit, Graham's response, and the rebuttal to the response, is that he got jobbed pretty hard. The edit changes the meaning and makes him sound like women can't be hackers, and that's absolutely NOT what he was saying.
It's a serious ding on the site, especially since they're still contending that their edits didn't change his meaning. WTF?
posted by uberchet at 2:32 PM on December 31, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's a serious ding on the site, especially since they're still contending that their edits didn't change his meaning. WTF?
posted by uberchet at 2:32 PM on December 31, 2013 [2 favorites]
From the HN thread on this, there are several female founders who describe how they feel in general in the community, how they regard Paul Graham, and what they think useful next steps are. One says "I've talked to many female founders and YC does have a reputation as a "frat house" (I told one of the YC partners that personally when he asked me to apply.)".
posted by fatbird at 2:33 PM on December 31, 2013
posted by fatbird at 2:33 PM on December 31, 2013
That said, Graham seems to be making a pretty clear and innocuous point in a casual context, and the reporter sexed it up.
posted by fatbird at 2:34 PM on December 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by fatbird at 2:34 PM on December 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
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This makes The Information look pretty awful. And if they were just publishing free articles online like other tech pubs, that'd be one thing. But for a site charging $400/yr for higher quality journalism... Well, this could be deadly.
posted by chasing at 2:12 PM on December 31, 2013