I Am Not A Feminist
February 1, 2015 3:26 AM Subscribe
"Let’s suppose, as many people do, that a primary goal of feminism is equality. Then let’s look at the most popular iteration of feminism, as represented in the signs of Beyoncé and Julia and assess it against this fundamental aim. We find that what is sought is not actual equality of the sort that would, say, redeem poor women, or men, from poverty and powerlessness but a very conditional equality. Our era’s widely practised feminism sees wealth and power inequality as a necessary condition. The only problem feminism has with unequally distributed wealth and power is that women don’t have their unequal share of it." (SLMedium)
This post was deleted for the following reason: Looks like this is really not going over well. Maybe it would work better a bit later in a more developed post with responses and analyses, but as is, it's basically single-link op/ed flamebait. -- taz
It's amazing how many anti-feminists will come up with these issues and proclaim that feminism is bad/dead/pointless when 100% of these arguments were had by feminists within feminist discourse literally thirty or more goddamned years ago.
The short version is that this is the fundamental distinction between liberal and radical feminism- liberal feminists want to allow women the same access to dominance and power as men, while radical feminists want to abolish dominance and power altogether. Congratulations, Helen, you've discovered the radical feminist critique of liberal feminism, and only forty years after radical feminists did. You're clearly engaged with this topic at a deep and insightful level.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:58 AM on February 1, 2015 [23 favorites]
The short version is that this is the fundamental distinction between liberal and radical feminism- liberal feminists want to allow women the same access to dominance and power as men, while radical feminists want to abolish dominance and power altogether. Congratulations, Helen, you've discovered the radical feminist critique of liberal feminism, and only forty years after radical feminists did. You're clearly engaged with this topic at a deep and insightful level.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:58 AM on February 1, 2015 [23 favorites]
She could have just googled 'intersectional feminism' then she'd have gone 'oh!', and never would have needed to have written this.
Oh well, something to remember for next time.
posted by Summer at 3:59 AM on February 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
Oh well, something to remember for next time.
posted by Summer at 3:59 AM on February 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
A white radical once again pivoting a critique of liberal feminism around Beyonce with no mention or apparent thought given to the many, many radical women of colour who have said, all over the internet, that Beyonce's FEMINISM performance was important and ground-breaking. Unsurprising, and uncomfortable.
posted by these are science wands at 4:01 AM on February 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by these are science wands at 4:01 AM on February 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
I feel like Helen Razer may have slightly lost touch with the reality of how feminism is received in Australia and the Western world in general, as opposed to how it's received in her social/cultural circles.
posted by Quilford at 4:01 AM on February 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Quilford at 4:01 AM on February 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
The author clearly did not think very good on this, since not until the 2nd-to-last paragraph do the symbols DIGNITY and SURPLUS (in the sense used in the article) show up to undermine her own argument predicated on a notion that there's a Material Real that's somehow superior to a Symbolic understanding of the world.
posted by polymodus at 4:08 AM on February 1, 2015
posted by polymodus at 4:08 AM on February 1, 2015
Ah, the whole "the world is full of problems, and X doesn't address every last one of them, therefore X is useless" argument.
And if you're taking Beyoncé to task but in the next breath praising Katy Perry for her "courage" to say "I'm not a feminist," you've probably thought your argument through as much as Katy Perry has.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:33 AM on February 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
And if you're taking Beyoncé to task but in the next breath praising Katy Perry for her "courage" to say "I'm not a feminist," you've probably thought your argument through as much as Katy Perry has.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:33 AM on February 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just another front on the conservative war against everything that has been accomplished over the past 80 years or so, using their time-tested trope of "If we use a [individual normally associated with thing we hate] against [thing], then, obviously, [thing] must be stupid, wrongheaded and probably evil."
posted by Thorzdad at 4:35 AM on February 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 4:35 AM on February 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Just another front on the conservative war against everything that has been accomplished over the past 80 years...
Really? You really think she's a conservative or that she defends a conservative worldview?
posted by huguini at 4:39 AM on February 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Really? You really think she's a conservative or that she defends a conservative worldview?
posted by huguini at 4:39 AM on February 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I agree with this rant against allowing capitalist to co-opt anarchist, left-wing, etc. theory free of charge, but..
Authoritarianism and fascism hold power partially by maintaining power inequalities within the oppressed. I.e. Authoritarians and fascists stratify their oppression so that enough oppressed people support the fascist elite and help oppress everyone else.
It's obvious that fascisms exploits racism, ala Tea party, Golden Dawn, Front National, UKIP, etc., but sexism facilitates fascism too :
"5. Rampant Sexism - .. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution." 1
Authoritarianism and fascism have a harder time holding sway when more viewpoints are expressed because they hold power by selling very simplistic world views.
Ya know, if a right-wing female leader lobbies for cuts to public childcare, then by all means write an article about how child care professionals were essential to her career.
1 I'm nervous about the claim that "The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid." There isn't exactly a shortage of fascist female leaders today, like Teresa May, Marine Le Pen, Michele Bachmann, Condoleezza Rice, etc. In fact historically, prohibition was driven in large part by women's suffrage. Anyways the role of women's suffrage in prohibition still represents authoritarians/fascists exploiting inequalities in lower classes, like the social pressures preventing women from partaking anyways.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:41 AM on February 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Authoritarianism and fascism hold power partially by maintaining power inequalities within the oppressed. I.e. Authoritarians and fascists stratify their oppression so that enough oppressed people support the fascist elite and help oppress everyone else.
It's obvious that fascisms exploits racism, ala Tea party, Golden Dawn, Front National, UKIP, etc., but sexism facilitates fascism too :
"5. Rampant Sexism - .. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution." 1
Authoritarianism and fascism have a harder time holding sway when more viewpoints are expressed because they hold power by selling very simplistic world views.
Ya know, if a right-wing female leader lobbies for cuts to public childcare, then by all means write an article about how child care professionals were essential to her career.
1 I'm nervous about the claim that "The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid." There isn't exactly a shortage of fascist female leaders today, like Teresa May, Marine Le Pen, Michele Bachmann, Condoleezza Rice, etc. In fact historically, prohibition was driven in large part by women's suffrage. Anyways the role of women's suffrage in prohibition still represents authoritarians/fascists exploiting inequalities in lower classes, like the social pressures preventing women from partaking anyways.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:41 AM on February 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Really? You really think she's a conservative or that she defends a conservative worldview?
Well, I kind of do, because her whole article's thesis was constructed on this tired ideology of Real > Symbol, while being neither sensitive to the modern idea that one doesn't have license to define and privilege her version of reality in this way, nor cognizant that this dichotomy is a well-known philosophical issue/debate/topic and it's not fair to distort the things known about the philosophical issues involved as a way to serve her opinions.
posted by polymodus at 4:46 AM on February 1, 2015
Well, I kind of do, because her whole article's thesis was constructed on this tired ideology of Real > Symbol, while being neither sensitive to the modern idea that one doesn't have license to define and privilege her version of reality in this way, nor cognizant that this dichotomy is a well-known philosophical issue/debate/topic and it's not fair to distort the things known about the philosophical issues involved as a way to serve her opinions.
posted by polymodus at 4:46 AM on February 1, 2015
I tried reading this yesterday, but I honestly couldn't get past
the emotional assumption that any “successful” woman owes a debt to feminism.
No. They don’t. Julie Bishop and Marissa Mayer have capitalism to largely thank for their success.
So, yes. Capitalism! Always the first thing you think about when discussing milestones like universal suffrage and family planning, right?
posted by harujion at 4:47 AM on February 1, 2015
the emotional assumption that any “successful” woman owes a debt to feminism.
No. They don’t. Julie Bishop and Marissa Mayer have capitalism to largely thank for their success.
So, yes. Capitalism! Always the first thing you think about when discussing milestones like universal suffrage and family planning, right?
posted by harujion at 4:47 AM on February 1, 2015
There isn't exactly a shortage of fascist female leaders today, like Teresa May
I'm really - really - not a fan of Theresa May, but you're devaluing the meaning of fascism by applying it to a fairly mainstream centre-right-wing politician.
posted by sobarel at 4:49 AM on February 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm really - really - not a fan of Theresa May, but you're devaluing the meaning of fascism by applying it to a fairly mainstream centre-right-wing politician.
posted by sobarel at 4:49 AM on February 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Fascinating food for thought. Beyonce is, of course, awesome, but putting her on a pedestal has always left me a bit uncomfortable, because she's still playing the game of capitalism, just advocating that women take advantage of all its class divisions.
Which, sure ok, but really?
Long story short, it's complicated out there and you're not going to find an ideological pure symbol or person. At least not one that connects with a huge swath of people. So. Baby steps, a bit of stumbling, but always moving forward in all sorts of messy ways.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:51 AM on February 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Which, sure ok, but really?
Long story short, it's complicated out there and you're not going to find an ideological pure symbol or person. At least not one that connects with a huge swath of people. So. Baby steps, a bit of stumbling, but always moving forward in all sorts of messy ways.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:51 AM on February 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
7 Female CEOs Who Inspire Us All To Be Cogs In The Capitalist Machine.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 4:51 AM on February 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by TheophileEscargot at 4:51 AM on February 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Hrm, I thought. This is likely to just be another 'you know, the real problem is always capitalism' essay. While I do believe there are some people for whom the problem with inequality isn't the nature of it but just that they're not on the top, I don't think they are so prominent or able to define something as large as feminism, so I was interested to read the article and then see how it was demolished here.
But it's written by Helen Razer, so no. She's a dreadful, sophomoric contrarian who doesn't deserve to be listened to. She's a terrible troll, and like many trolling media personalities, it is, in fact, better to ignore her than deal with her.
posted by gadge emeritus at 4:54 AM on February 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
But it's written by Helen Razer, so no. She's a dreadful, sophomoric contrarian who doesn't deserve to be listened to. She's a terrible troll, and like many trolling media personalities, it is, in fact, better to ignore her than deal with her.
posted by gadge emeritus at 4:54 AM on February 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
...this tired ideology of Real > Symbol...
How do fly from country to country? Symbolic airplanes, I'm sure.
posted by huguini at 4:55 AM on February 1, 2015
How do fly from country to country? Symbolic airplanes, I'm sure.
posted by huguini at 4:55 AM on February 1, 2015
I don't care for snark. Just look up the damn papers.
posted by polymodus at 4:57 AM on February 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by polymodus at 4:57 AM on February 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Wow. So many strawmen in that article. So many trite euphemisms. So many verbally shiny things, that the author herself got distracted.
posted by Dashy at 4:58 AM on February 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Dashy at 4:58 AM on February 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
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In short, Beyoncé does not equal feminism any more or less than Bush, or Obama, equals democracy. If you are really interested in seeing how feminists (and other social theorists) grapple with wealth and power inequality, look for works on "intersectionality." I looked back at your previous posting history and it seems that you are quite interested in looking at how feminism doesn't measure up to some ideal or is somehow inconsistent. I don't think this example, or your previous examples, passes argumentative muster.
posted by Slothrop at 3:58 AM on February 1, 2015 [8 favorites]