Ben Carson Gets Schwifty
November 5, 2015 6:05 PM Subscribe

Ben Carson just dropped his rap radio ad for president.

He seems characteristically excited with the result:

Dr. Carson, your campaign will release radio ads starting tomorrow that features a rap artist, and its demographic is a little specific. Can you explain why you’re going that route? Why rap?

Well, there are people in the campaign who felt that that was a good way to do things. And, you know, they’re entitled to their opinions about such things.

What about you?

I support them in doing that. But, you know, I probably would have taken a little different approach.

The $150,000 ad buy is targeting "urban voters," in an attempt to "reach young, African-American voters 'on a level they appreciate and follow.'" Carson has previously been a critic of hip-hop music, claiming it was destroying faith, family, and values.

posted by Muddler (313 comments total) 16 users marked this as a favorite

How is this guy a legitimate candidate? I feel like I'm living in Bizarro World.
posted by Saxon Kane at 6:10 PM on November 5, 2015 [55 favorites]

@ElonJames has been tweeting about this all day, including the hashtag #TweetYourReactionToTheBenCarsonRap and the latest TWiBPrime episode Ben Carson Needs to Stop.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:10 PM on November 5, 2015 [6 favorites]

Did I have a stroke or something? Am I dreaming?

This might actually be a brilliant bit of viral marketing. It has to be that, right? There's no way anyone earnestly thought this was a good idea.
posted by axiom at 6:10 PM on November 5, 2015

We're all going to feel dumb making fun of this when he's elected president.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:12 PM on November 5, 2015 [13 favorites]

Were we lacking in opportunities to point/laugh/cringe/cry at (Republican) presidential candidates?
posted by rtha at 6:12 PM on November 5, 2015 [3 favorites]

That interview looks for all the world like an SNL skit starring an uncannily good Ben Carson impersonator
posted by theodolite at 6:13 PM on November 5, 2015 [5 favorites]

I was hoping for more of the "I'm Ben Carson and I'm here to say..." style rap popular among conservatives and corporate team-building consultants everywhere.
posted by downtohisturtles at 6:14 PM on November 5, 2015 [77 favorites]

The ducking election isn't for a fucking year.

*ducks*
posted by Xavier Xavier at 6:15 PM on November 5, 2015

BEN CARSON: SHOW ME WHAT YOU GOT
posted by GuyZero at 6:15 PM on November 5, 2015 [43 favorites]

Please let's not post stupid stuff about stupid people.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:19 PM on November 5, 2015 [7 favorites]

How is this guy a legitimate candidate? I feel like I'm living in Bizarro World.

He believes the world is flat. This is a significant selling point in some conservative circles.
posted by Artw at 6:20 PM on November 5, 2015 [3 favorites]

The ducking election isn't for a fucking year.

Flagged because this fucking election shit.

Dude. In a year, it's just going to be all white-hot rhetoric A VS B NO IN BETWEEN - and sure, we'll all get to feel self-righteous while proving we're voting for the candidate who is demonstrably the lesser evil and that's fine or whatever.

But right now? Right now it still feels like anything is possible. Look at this jackass! And the next highest polling candidate is motherfucking Donald Trump! What a fantastic time to be alive and engaged in our idiocracy-cum-mosh-pit! What a country! Revel in it or wallow in it as you will.
posted by Ryvar at 6:20 PM on November 5, 2015 [23 favorites]

I DON'T WANNA SEE WHAT YOU GOT. PLEASE DON'T SHOW US WHAT YOU GOT.

...
...
...

NOT. COOL.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:21 PM on November 5, 2015 [12 favorites]

Were we lacking in opportunities to point/laugh/cringe/cry at (Republican) presidential candidates?

If history is any guide, we're going to get to do this with all of them.

I was hoping for more of the "I'm Ben Carson and I'm here to say..." style rap popular among conservatives and corporate team-building consultants everywhere.

"...store your grain the Egyptian way."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:28 PM on November 5, 2015 [195 favorites]

Oh the Hamilton parodies we could write...
posted by zachlipton at 6:31 PM on November 5, 2015

What a fantastic time to be alive and engaged in our idiocracy-cum-mosh-pit!

Eewwwwwwwww. Ew. Ew. No. Ew. Gross.
posted by um at 6:32 PM on November 5, 2015 [19 favorites]

I just tell myself that neurosurgery is a discipline that has taken up most of his available brain space and the rest is all confused with food pyramids and creationism.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 6:33 PM on November 5, 2015 [11 favorites]

it's like if flow were discovered to be conducted by a new kind of elementary particle that flute line would be a pure stream of antiflosons
posted by Wolfdog at 6:37 PM on November 5, 2015 [37 favorites]

Dear god. Somebody post the instrumental, please.
posted by cashman at 6:39 PM on November 5, 2015 [7 favorites]

He believes the world is flat. This is a significant selling point in some conservative circles.

Tell me this is hyperbole or metaphor
posted by middleclasstool at 6:40 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

Yeah, ok, so who were the brothers who hooked Dr. Carson up with a bassline and a spassy flute? He probably doesn't have two turntables and a microphone set up in his neurosurgery office(?)
posted by newdaddy at 6:41 PM on November 5, 2015

Etov rof neb nosrac
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:43 PM on November 5, 2015 [12 favorites]

He believes the world is flat. This is a significant selling point in some conservative circles.

Tell me this is hyperbole or metaphor

Well, he legit thinks the pyramids are fucking hollow, so I don't even know anymore.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:44 PM on November 5, 2015 [19 favorites]

Who is Ben Carson trying to fool with his bizarre, insincere rap ad?: “He’s a more refined version of Sarah Palin”

Ben Carson’s bizarro-world pyramid madness: This is why evangelicals adore him, and everyone else will find him nuts
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:45 PM on November 5, 2015 [3 favorites]

My favorite is still - in response to the debate question of what his greatest weakness is, "Probably in terms of the applying for the job of president, a weakness would be not really seeing myself in that position until hundreds of thousands of people began to tell me that I needed to do it."
posted by sallybrown at 6:45 PM on November 5, 2015 [3 favorites]

We're all going to feel ~~dumb making fun of this~~ crippling, soul-crushing depression when he's elected president.
posted by Sangermaine at 6:48 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

The rocket scientists are going to be totally insufferable if Carson becomes president.
posted by um at 6:49 PM on November 5, 2015 [32 favorites]

If you play it in reverse, he sounds presidential.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:50 PM on November 5, 2015 [3 favorites]

More fresh beats from the same rapper, Aspiring Mogul, which includes some Ben Carson speechifying.
posted by peeedro at 6:51 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

We're all going to feel dumb making fun of this when we're herded into heretic camps by Seventh Day Adventist President-for-Life Dr. Carson.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 6:51 PM on November 5, 2015 [4 favorites]

I am still stunned by his insane comments about the Pyramids --Tldr Ben Carson thinks the Pyramids were built by Joseph as graineries to protect against famine.
posted by humanfont at 6:52 PM on November 5, 2015 [6 favorites]

I suspect that Carson is being advised by some incredibly strange people..... Hearing this on the heels of learning about Carson's thoughts about the Great Pyramids makes me wonder how he ever obtained a medical degree.
posted by HuronBob at 6:54 PM on November 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

We're all laughing at this, but I think it works.
posted by Nelson at 6:56 PM on November 5, 2015

This is incredible.
posted by flippant at 6:57 PM on November 5, 2015

More fresh beats from the same rapper

His rapping is terrible. The beat is terrible. His flow is terrible. That song is terrible. He had to have gotten that whole beat out of an off the shelf package. The RZA he's not. Thank goodness there's only one song on his soundcloud, because wow.
posted by cashman at 6:58 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

Well, I don't know about all you haters, but I'm convinced. Not sure of what, but I'm sure convinced.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 6:58 PM on November 5, 2015 [7 favorites]

Well, I don't know about all you haters, but I'm convinced. Not sure of what, but I'm sure convinced.

Spoken like a true Carson voter.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:01 PM on November 5, 2015 [39 favorites]

Only in today's media environment could a guy like this get so popular. Knowing we can actually read hieroglyphics, this moron puts forth the premise the pyramids were used to store grain.
Well, I'm going to claim that the teepee wasn't actually a portable home. The native Americans wore them as hats!
posted by Muncle at 7:03 PM on November 5, 2015 [11 favorites]

How is this guy a legitimate candidate? I feel like I'm living in Bizarro World.

Is Ben Carson running for President?
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 7:05 PM on November 5, 2015 [18 favorites]

This is all just some Andy Kaufman level of performance art, right?
posted by octothorpe at 7:05 PM on November 5, 2015 [5 favorites]

How is this guy a legitimate candidate? I feel like I'm living in Bizarro World.

Just like 2012, every clown gets to drive the car before they finally settle on the establishment's candidate.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:07 PM on November 5, 2015 [5 favorites]

Etov rof neb nosrac

Last time I listened to back masking I ended up in the navy and making lentil soup.
posted by Talez at 7:12 PM on November 5, 2015 [10 favorites]

The thing about the pyramids has really solidified something in my mind that I could never quite put my finger on: the vast majority of the time there's a conspiracy theory to explain why some ancient architecture must be the result of aliens or time-traveling Elvis or whatever, the thing being explained away is a piece of culture that came from non-white people.

Nobody goes to Rome and says "oh, this Coliseum is so amazing, how could any man have built it? Clearly this is the work of extra-terrestrials!". The closest we even come to seeing that is Stonehenge, and even that, I mean, for a lot of western civilization England was considered some crazy northern land of savages, so who knows. But the pyramids in Egypt? South American step pyramids? Nazca lines? There weren't any white people there, so clearly they must be the work of a higher being.
posted by tocts at 7:14 PM on November 5, 2015 [116 favorites]

I think it was written at 6 a.m after a night of drinking, the vocals were recorded before lunch, they found a guy who called himself a rapper and gave him fifty bucks, the beat and voice were overlayed before three so everyone got to go home early, and it aired at dinner.

And at no point did anyone ask 'Is this a good idea?'
posted by FallowKing at 7:18 PM on November 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

peeedro: More fresh beats from the same rapper, Aspiring Mogul

Wait, what? Aspiring Mogul? Dude needs to step up his game. In the annals of rap history, has there ever been another "Aspiring" anybody? I'm gonna bet on "no." Why? Because like Yoda said, "Do. Or do not. There is no try." Same thing goes for aspiring. Come on, if you're hooked on that "mogul" thing, go with "Young Mogul."

Unless you're serious about courting the white conservatives (dude sings about pulling himself up by his bootstraps and being pro-life), then I guess it all makes sense. Oh, he's also a youth minister and in the Republican leadership. Now it all makes sense. (But your store link doesn't work, so you're really not doing that well on the mogul front. Just saying.)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:18 PM on November 5, 2015 [6 favorites]

Just like 2012, every clown gets to drive the car before they finally settle on the establishment's candidate.

I was thinking that too, but with JEB! cratering... well, I don't think Mittens The Inevitable was doing that badly at this point.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:19 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

It was supposed to be Aspirin Mogul but there was a typo.
posted by Wolfdog at 7:19 PM on November 5, 2015 [11 favorites]

Keep it OTC (over the counter), Ben Carson's codine-core rap tour, pouring purple drank by the gallon, keeping it schwifty (NSFW lyrics - really, why are you playing this at work?)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:24 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

Ben Carson, for one, welcomes his alien pyramid-building overlords. With fat funky beats and a fresh groove that's keepin' it street.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:25 PM on November 5, 2015 [4 favorites]

It really really bothers me that this guy is polling as high as he is. Bring back Trump! I mean, lesser of two evils... Carson wants to replace taxes with tithing, and the department of education with an organization to police radical politics on college campuses...meanwhile, this Lamar Smith dude wants to massacre the NSF. It really makes me feel like we're in a state of cultural collapse. Surely (surely?), Carson can't win the election, but the fact that he could even make it so far says something terrible about the state of the electorate. I wish I could laugh at this man's antics.
posted by Edgewise at 7:26 PM on November 5, 2015 [8 favorites]

And we're all going to feel dumb when Ben Carson rips off his face and reveals that he is a reptiloid.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:29 PM on November 5, 2015 [6 favorites]

HuronBob: Hearing this on the heels of learning about Carson's thoughts about the Great Pyramids makes me wonder how he ever obtained a medical degree.

I've mentioned before my undergrad major was biochemistry. And I learned early on in college that all of us in that program could be roughly divided into "science nerds" and "premed nerds". I don't want to accidentally offend anyone; for one thing both groups seemed equally smart, and the premeds tended to get better grades. But, well, they used their intellect in a different way. And that psychological/cultural/professional difference extends to engineers, too.

Basically if you see a list of "scientists who disagree with global warming consensus" or "scientists who disagree with evolutionary dogma", expect a lot of doctors and engineers on that list. It's why I don't like the acronym STEM; that's really some very different kinds of things in there, philosophically.
posted by traveler_ at 7:32 PM on November 5, 2015 [51 favorites]

Is Ben Carson For Preident A Direct Mail Scam? Or at least start off that way?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:33 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

He spent today releasing a terrible rap album and trying to convince the media he really stabbed someone, is he Vanilla Ice?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:36 PM on November 5, 2015 [16 favorites]

Jon Stewart left the Daily Show too soon, that's all I can say.
posted by longdaysjourney at 7:38 PM on November 5, 2015 [10 favorites]

Ben Carson, for one, welcomes his alien pyramid-building overlords. With fat funky beats and a fresh groove that's keepin' it street.
posted by octobersurprise

KLF must be involved!
posted by reedcourtneyj at 7:40 PM on November 5, 2015 [6 favorites]

From Jezebel: The ABCs of Ben Carson's wacky beliefs, and don't forget the other GOP candidates: Rick Santorum said the President is 'Chicken,' But I've Fought 'The Ladies of The View'.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:40 PM on November 5, 2015

Some scientists believe the pyramids were created by aliens. Teach the controversy!
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:41 PM on November 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

Is Ben Carson running for President?

Yeah I think this pretty much nails it. When I read it, it occurred to me that Ben Carson is building a phenomenally valuable asset right now: his donor database. If you got a hold of that list, just think how much survivalist gear, snakeoil supplements, gold coins, donation opportunities for poorly defined charities, etc... you could market to these people.
posted by zachlipton at 7:47 PM on November 5, 2015 [27 favorites]

For me to listen to all of this, it would have to be played not just backwards but upside down: uosɹɐƆ uǝq

I made it to about the halfway point before quitting. I really do feel kind of sorry for the regular Republicans who are having to watch the clown show go from one freak attraction to the next at the moment.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:49 PM on November 5, 2015

If you got a hold of that list, just think how much survivalist gear, snakeoil supplements, gold coins, donation opportunities for poorly defined charities, etc... you could market to these people.

Let the Mannatech(TM)* flow!

* Not endorsed by Ben Carson but he totally says it's great.
posted by Artw at 7:49 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

I mean, I guess it's interesting in that the last black guy who ran for president and won (twice) didn't really do this kind of thing, which reeks to me of trying-too-hard-to-get-hip-wit-da-yooths. Obama reached young voters and urban voters by talking about things relevant to them (us). And by actually being cool in a not-totally-embarrassing-dad-please-STOP way. Though there's probably stuff I've forgotten or never knew about.

True, Obama himself didn't, but don't underestimate the power of Will.i.am's "Yes We Can" viral video. Now, of the many differences between those two things, one of them is definitely of quality (also, Will.i.am didn't attempt to go hip-hop with his videos in that campaign, which was smart. In my experience, political hip-hop either tends to be quite angry or quite spiritual, and neither in a way that paints the candidate in a nationally-appealing way. It's also generally so far left that nobody but Sanders would put themselves next to it.)

Like in the "Yes We Can" video, this one focuses mostly on a speech the candidate made, but this one is airless and soulless. It just feels like misbranding, even before we get the generic "urban" beat that has no relation to the message and does nothing to inspire, well, anything.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:50 PM on November 5, 2015 [5 favorites]

Just remember that at this time four years ago, Herman Cain was just finishing up his time at the top of the GOP polls, a couple months after Bachmann had her surge. In mid-November until mid-December we had Gingrich, followed by the Santorum surge right at the Iowa caucus. None of them ever, ever, ever had a chance in hell at the nomination. The GOP electorate is a shitshow and the GOP establishment lets them have this charade to keep them placated, but come the primaries they will elect someone with establishment support who has held political office. I still think it will be Jeb, but could be Rubio or maybe even Kasich. I think Cruz will have a moment sometime in the next month or two after Carson withers against the slightest scrutiny.
posted by skewed at 7:52 PM on November 5, 2015 [6 favorites]

What a fantastic time to be alive and engaged in our idiocracy-cum-mosh-pit!

Eewwwwwwwww. Ew. Ew. No. Ew. Gross.
posted by um

damn, so close
posted by wallabear at 7:52 PM on November 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

Totally-not-a-Republican-honest dad in law who spends all his time hanging out with republicans told us repeatedly how great Kasich is and how he's totally vote for him on a recent trip up here. Based purely on that anecdata I suspect he will be the candidate once the clown show is over, but I'm not entirely convinced the clown show WILL end this time.
posted by Artw at 7:55 PM on November 5, 2015

I think Ben Carson makes much more sense if you think of him as an American version of Karl Pilkington.
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:12 PM on November 5, 2015 [8 favorites]

Gonna be Rubio. Jeb is flaming out, everyone hates Cruz, rest can barely tie their own shoes.
posted by emjaybee at 8:14 PM on November 5, 2015 [23 favorites]

The GOP electorate is a shitshow and the GOP establishment lets them have this charade to keep them placated, but come the primaries they will elect someone with establishment support who has held political office.

You know, this would be a genuinely intelligent strategy, and it would be interesting (in a depressing way) to see whether this becomes the next stage of electoral evolution: primaries become completely divorced from the selection process, and spectacle and substance are completely divorced: the former takes place over the course of 2+ years on every TV screen in America, the latter takes place in smoke-filled rooms on Wall Street.
posted by AdamCSnider at 8:20 PM on November 5, 2015 [5 favorites]

It's funny/scary/ridiculous that the best possible explanation of Ben Carson's campaign is that he is a grifter running a rather unsophisticated scam to fleece dumb Republicans with a direct mail campaign to build his brand and cash in after the election.

Even weirder to imagine that this genuinely super-gifted and accomplished neurosurgeon would at some point dream up (or be sold on) that sort of plan... for what, exactly? He's already renowned in the field where he's actually an expert. He's surely not hurting for money. What's going on here?
posted by Navelgazer at 8:26 PM on November 5, 2015 [6 favorites]

I'm not entirely convinced the clown show WILL end this time.

Some of us still can't believe that Ronald Reagan got elected.
posted by bonobothegreat at 8:27 PM on November 5, 2015 [27 favorites]

Well, that would require a complete upheaval of the primary system though, wouldn't it? Primaries are not poll or debates 4 months before hand, the actual process still involve actual voters, who from all indications are decidedly not inclined to go along with choice hand down from the smoke filled rooms. At some point early next year, these clowns are going to start accruing actual electors and marching towards the nomination, which is the entire crisis, the 2012 clown show ended with voters slowly resigning themselves to Romney, but this time its clowns all the way down.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:27 PM on November 5, 2015 [3 favorites]

To be fair, Carson's rap anthem would make a great opening theme for The Wire: Season 37.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:33 PM on November 5, 2015

> this time its clowns all the way down.

Jesus wept?

This is how it ends, not with a bang but with a whimper?

Bring back the Whigs?

What does one even say at this point?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:35 PM on November 5, 2015

I suspect that Carson is being advised by some incredibly strange people

People who think that Ben Carson for President is a good idea? Those kind of strange people?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:48 PM on November 5, 2015 [10 favorites]

I am still stunned by his insane comments about the Pyramids --Tldr Ben Carson thinks the Pyramids were built by Joseph as graineries to protect against famine.

This has also been given the remix treatment.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:48 PM on November 5, 2015 [4 favorites]

Heh. I was raised Adventist, in the Michigan mothership. I no longer practice, but that's another story.

I can tell you now that if Carson is as devout as he presents himself, this rap piece is against what he believes. It's hard enough getting drums and a guitar into Adventist-approved music. Even clapping along is BAD. The 'ideal' is a slow, reflective piano accompaniment, lest the spirits get too excited. So, rap? THE DEVIL'S INSTRUMENTS LOL

Also while growing up, yes, I did hear about pyramids=granaries.
posted by Xere at 8:55 PM on November 5, 2015 [6 favorites]

I guess I don't get the granary thing.
posted by newdaddy at 9:09 PM on November 5, 2015

this time its clowns all the way down

They all float down here. Beep beep, America!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:26 PM on November 5, 2015 [13 favorites]

The granary thing is what you get when you only believe what you can find evidence for in the Bible, so you take the story of Joseph advising Pharaoh to store up grain from the seven good years and use that to explain the big, ancient piles of stone in Egypt. It is ignorant close-mindedness.

It baffles me so much. Like ... you can go to the pyramids. You can check. There is not enough room in them to store large amounts of grain, because they are not fucking hollow.
posted by kafziel at 9:26 PM on November 5, 2015 [31 favorites]

oh, i'm sure there's a reasonable explanation. like, they installed all that interior stuff after they took all the grain out. or something.
posted by palomar at 9:32 PM on November 5, 2015 [5 favorites]

Oh it's all explained in Joseph And The Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat:

Joseph - Pharaoh's number two
Joseph - Egypt looks to you

Seven years of bumper crops
They came just as Joseph said.
He made his people dig and labor
No aliens were overhead.
But he was a total moron,
Made them out of solid stone.
Filled pyramids up with Pharroh bits
Instead of stocking them with grits.

posted by zachlipton at 9:35 PM on November 5, 2015 [11 favorites]

Oh hell no on the Whigs. My grandmothers grandfather was one and it drove him to become a republican in 1858 you know, because of Granaries.

I also suspect the glue that holds the "big three" nightly news channels is Orchestral music and fresh haircuts.
posted by clavdivs at 9:40 PM on November 5, 2015

It baffles me so much. Like ... you can go to the pyramids. You can check. There is not enough room in them to store large amounts of grain, because they are not fucking hollow.

Sure, they're not hollow now, not after evolutionists have spent almost 200 years packing the empty granaries with inconvenient fossils that prove mankind walked with dinosaurs. themoreyouknow.jpg
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:47 PM on November 5, 2015 [5 favorites]

Even weirder to imagine that this genuinely super-gifted and accomplished neurosurgeon would at some point dream up (or be sold on) that sort of plan... for what, exactly? He's already renowned in the field where he's actually an expert. He's surely not hurting for money. What's going on here?

We don't know that he's either got money or still able to practice neurosurgery. Ever since he started his run, I've wondered if there's something physically or mentally wrong with him; sixty-two is a pretty young age for a successful neurosurgeon to retire. Even if there were some purely physical problem preventing him from doing surgery, though, there are things such as teaching, writing, doing research, medical administration, and/or serving on the boards of corporations--all of which he was doing at one time or another before he began his campaign.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:48 PM on November 5, 2015 [4 favorites]

Huckabee was a TV minister, which is often already about getting money from people who are in a bad situation. Carson was a brain surgeon. Carson's fall is much further, and I find it much sadder.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:12 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

South Park and P. Diddy did it better. (nsfw--language , SLYT)
posted by raihan_ at 10:18 PM on November 5, 2015

Have you folks met any neurosurgeons? They're...uh...famously terrible with the people-skills on every level, and famously Duning-Kruger arrogant in their allegedly deep insight about humans.

(Ben Carson, however, makes even the most stereotypical neurosurgeon seem reasonable.)
posted by desuetude at 10:20 PM on November 5, 2015 [8 favorites]

Is Ben Carson running for President?

No. Actually, none of the current set of so-called candidates is actually running for the office. They're all on the payroll of Mitt Romney, who, after they all go down in pre-meditated flames, will step in to offer himself as boring, but capable, and will carry the nomination by acclamation.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:28 PM on November 5, 2015 [4 favorites]

I personally find it gratifying to see that the only viable Presidential candidates that the Republican Party can come up with - even after Citizens United - are Carson and Trump. Not only does it insure four more years of a Democratic presidency but it fortells the not too distant disintegration of the Republican Party as a whole. So much for Koch Bros et ilk control of America.
posted by AGameOfMoans at 10:46 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

Lyndon LaRouche has got to be super pissed that he wasn't born 40 years later.
posted by aaronetc at 10:48 PM on November 5, 2015 [7 favorites]

Idiocracy wasn't just a movie, it was prophesy.
posted by photoslob at 11:13 PM on November 5, 2015 [4 favorites]

"...store your grain the Egyptian way."

Damn you autocorrect..."store your BRAIN the Egyptian way".
posted by boilermonster at 11:17 PM on November 5, 2015

It could be worse.

“Cat® D6N (Dozer Pride)”—Cat® Products, 02 November 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 11:36 PM on November 5, 2015 [6 favorites]

In fairness to Dr. Carson, building the Pyramids wonder in Civilization II *did* count as a Granary in every one of your cities.

(Perhaps his fiscal strategy is to convert the government to Fundamentalism -- even with that 10% tax rate, the low maintenance costs and extra gold generated by all those happiness-related improvements will more than make up for the shortfall! But we'll never make it to Alpha Centauri with science production cut in half. Unless... he plans to win the game by CONQUEST.)
posted by Rhaomi at 11:44 PM on November 5, 2015 [69 favorites]

Of course, fanatics are the best part of Fundamentalism. And strategywiki.org says of Fundamentalism, "citizens will never be unhappy for any reason". So there ya go. He's got my vote.
posted by isthmus at 11:54 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

Look everyone knows building the pyramids grants you a granary in every city, that's just fact
posted by The Whelk at 11:54 PM on November 5, 2015 [9 favorites]

twitter: #bencarsonwikipedia

Roombas are cyborg anchor babies. #bencarsonwikipedia

In the 1400s, bison were nearly driven to extinction following the discovery of the buffalo wing #bencarsonwikipedia

Recent manuscript finds reveal loaves & fish recipients had to pass drug tests before Jesus allowed them to eat. #bencarsonwikipedia

Susan B. Anthony was a robot. #bencarsonwikipedia

Gregorian monks "sing" by rubbing their legs together. #bencarsonwikipedia

Stonehenge is a game of Jenga abandoned by giants. #bencarsonwikipedia

#bencarsonwikipedia Moses once said "I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"

And Pharaoh said "Like mannatech from heaven, welcome to my grain pyramid!" #bencarsonwikipedia

Women cannot work in Silicon Valley because it would be awkward and uncomfortable. And because they attract bees. #bencarsonwikipedia

At the equator, toilets don't flush #bencarsonwikipedia

Our founding fathers knew the importance of grain storage.
#bencarsonwikipedia

#bencarsonwikipedia Baby Churchill could have killed Baby Hitler if domineering nannies hadn't taken away all the English babies' guns

More Guns and Semi Automatic Assault Rifles Would Keep Us Safer but Affordable Healthcare Would Kill Us All. #bencarsonwikipedia
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:58 PM on November 5, 2015 [28 favorites]

Has anyone asked Kanye what he makes of all this?
posted by Sonny Jim at 1:00 AM on November 6, 2015

I wonder how many of Carson's beliefs are drawn from the work of cranks like David Barton, who is depressingly influential in right-evangelical circles and a favorite of Tea Party types.
posted by kewb at 3:10 AM on November 6, 2015

Some of us still can't believe that Ronald Reagan got elected.

Ronald Reagan? The actor?
posted by zombieflanders at 3:35 AM on November 6, 2015 [31 favorites]

God gave him the answers for a freshman chemistry test. FOR REAL.

My mind reached toward God — a desperate yearning, begging, clinging to Him. “Either help me understand what kind of work I ought to do, or else perform some kind of miracle and help me pass this exam.”
...
While I slept I had a strange dream, and, when I awakened in the morning, it remained as vivid as if it had actually happened. In the dream I was sitting in the chemistry lecture hall, the only person there. The door opened, and a nebulous figure walked into the room, stopped at the board, and started working out chemistry problems. I took notes of everything he wrote.

When I awakened, I recalled most of the problems, and I hurriedly wrote them down before they faded from memory...

I dressed, ate breakfast, and went to the chemistry lecture room with a feeling of resignation. . . . Hurriedly, I skimmed through the booklet, laughing silently, confirming what I suddenly knew. The exam problems were identical to those written by the shadowy dream figure in my sleep.

posted by BungaDunga at 3:38 AM on November 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

o snap hes a rapping wizard of the tenth realm of ephysyiyies
posted by robocop is bleeding at 3:45 AM on November 6, 2015

Either help me understand what kind of work I ought to do, or else perform some kind of miracle and help me pass this exam.

Weird. Nowhere in that prayer is there a request to god to help him understand the material.
posted by rdr at 3:50 AM on November 6, 2015 [15 favorites]

Hitting your mother in the head with a hammer is the new chopping down your dad's cherry tree!
posted by sallybrown at 4:42 AM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Ben Carson.
posted by Poldo at 4:45 AM on November 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Carson reads like a clown to me, but when he says shit like, "It is not fair for [transgender people] to make everybody else uncomfortable," I just can't even. I literally cannot even.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:46 AM on November 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Is Ben Carson running for President?

It doesn't really matter. The clown car is a huge McGuffin. The real contest is to win a veto-proof majority in the Senate. If they accomplish that feat, it won't matter who is in the White House. In fact, having a Democrat as President would be to their advantage as it would give the GOP a nice scapegoat when things go pear-shaped.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:01 AM on November 6, 2015 [12 favorites]

I smoke a lot of weed so my memory may be impaired, but I honestly do not remember such a GOP shit show. I mean, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, Santorum, it seemed like there was maybe a month of ascendancy of those wackos where we were scared, and then it leveled out. I don't remember this drip drip drip of 100% crazy for months.
posted by angrycat at 5:07 AM on November 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

In one of the (many) Trump threads, I said I'd eat my hat if he won the nomination. I stand by that and now extend my wager. If Carson wins the nomination, I'll eat two hats. Full of grain. Sweet, sweet pyramid grain.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 5:18 AM on November 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

Anything that trys to involve youth in the process has to be a step forward; no matter how clunky.
posted by buzzman at 5:25 AM on November 6, 2015

When I first heard about this, I cringed. I really didn't want to click the link. I was then relieved when I finally did to discover he didn't actually rap in the ad, but they just used speech excerpts over the beat. It's not nearly as awful as I had feared.

None of this changes the fact that he's nuttier than a Stuckey's log.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:32 AM on November 6, 2015

Needs more feat. Redman.
posted by echocollate at 5:36 AM on November 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Hearing this on the heels of learning about Carson's thoughts about the Great Pyramids makes me wonder how he ever obtained a medical degree.

If my girlfriend's first few months of medical school are anything to go by, obtaining a medical degree is way more about your ability to memorize a huge pile of facts than it is about being able to think critically.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 5:38 AM on November 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

I mean it really is a jumped-up trade school. I am pretty sure the main reason physicians in America (like actors the world over, now) are so highly esteemed is because they are paid so very much, and they are only paid so very much because the AMA has taken active steps to restrict their supply.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 5:41 AM on November 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

The Most-Popular U.S. Presidential Candidate Blames the Poor
posted by bukvich at 5:50 AM on November 6, 2015

My latest "they aren't that clever but may luck into a conspiracy theory style strategy" theory is this:

The presidential election becomes so obviously one sided towards the democrats. Plus, Hillary doesn't really inspire. So, it isn't a question of who will win, but turnout is very low for an election year. Hillary wins, but the Republicans carry every (enough) down-ticket race and Hillary is sworn into office to run executive against a veto-proof super-majority of Republican legislators in both houses.

That said, I'm still pushing for a Sanders vs. Trump general as the best way to bring health to our democracy by getting everyone engaged and opinionated about it. Plus, entertainment value!
posted by meinvt at 5:53 AM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Didn't we already watch Michael Steele make pretty much this same mistake? It worked out so well for him.

Ben Carson is building a phenomenally valuable asset right now: his donor database. If you got a hold of that list, just think how much survivalist gear, snakeoil supplements, gold coins, donation opportunities for poorly defined charities, etc... you could market to these people.

Plus he lets some in the GOP's Southern voter group convince themselves that they're not racists because they're okay this Black guy versus the [insert your own racial, political, or religious invective here] who's been holding their White House and country hostage for the past seven years.

Anyway, here's Clutch online magazine's take on Carson the new rap star. And here's my favorite comment to the article: "Corny ass Manchurian candidate type fool right here."

posted by fuse theorem at 6:08 AM on November 6, 2015

Hillary wins, but the Republicans carry every (enough) down-ticket race and Hillary is sworn into office to run executive against a veto-proof super-majority of Republican legislators in both houses.

I'm not sure you know how many seats are required for a veto-proof majority. At the moment, even if the GOP wins every Senate seat, even the very safe blue ones, they'd still be short. And I suppose it's technically possible that they could not only hold all their House seats and then win ~50 more, but both the apportionment and likelihood of losing the Presidential race but picking up so many seats make that essentially impossible.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:12 AM on November 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Redstate (No I won't link to them):

If you are trying to make a case that Carson is an idiot or against science, I think it takes more than a religious conviction to discredit an internationally prominent neurosurgeon with a string of articles published in scholarly medical journals. On the other hand, Hillary Clinton believes in man-induced global warming.

So there you go, accepting what 99.9% of scientists say about climate change is equivalent or even worse than believing in complete nonsense that's easily dis-proven by just looking inside the damn pyramids.
posted by octothorpe at 6:27 AM on November 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

Greg Sargent: They're Not Scientists

The Republican Party is well positioned to deal immense setbacks to the best efforts taking shape, at long last, to combat the escalating risks we face from a warming world.

In the near term, Republicans are threatening to throw a wrench into the implementation of President Obama’s recently completed Clean Power Plan (CPP), which aims to reduce carbon dioxide emissions from U.S. power plants by 32 percent by the year 2030, relative to 2005 levels. (Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has angrily vowed to stop this “bureaucratic and regulatory menace.”) By itself, this Environmental Protection Agency plan is a vastly insufficient response to the long-term carbon challenge. But it is the most ambitious step the United States has ever taken to curb carbon emissions, and it could help lay the groundwork for a global climate deal to be negotiated in Paris in December, when more than 190 participating countries are expected to commit to reductions in their greenhouse gas emissions. This agreement may, in turn, provide a foundation for more international action in the next decade.

The emerging global effort to combat climate change will hinge, in part, on whether the United States can successfully implement the CPP. If we can’t, it would complicate our ability to meet our obligations in a global accord and weaken the incentive for other countries to meet their commitments. Yet influential figures in the Republican Party are working to block the CPP on multiple fronts: They’re filing lawsuits against the EPA, applying political pressure to state officials who are poised to implement the plan, and working to sow doubts among our international partners about America’s political will to fulfill our end of an international deal. If any of those efforts pay off, it would seriously set back the emerging efforts to combat global warming. So could a new Republican president in 2017.

This has created an odd situation that was recently summed up by New York magazine’s Jonathan Chait: “The entire world is, in essence, tiptoeing gingerly around the unhinged second-largest political party in the world’s second-largest greenhouse gas emitter, in hopes of saving the world behind its back.” And indeed, there are grounds for thinking that the most hopeful scenario might be that Democrats keep the White House, and international efforts continue unfolding while (at worst) Republicans try and fail to block them, or (at best) just sit the whole thing out.

posted by zombieflanders at 6:33 AM on November 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Ugh, yes, I hear that all the time about him. "But he's a neurosurgeon, so he's smart and he must be right about everything!" while simultaneously dismissing expert-level knowledge from people in their own actual fields. I can't imagine that an appeal to authority to dismiss appeals to authority is unique to Carson supporters, but it's seemingly much more common these days.
posted by jaguar at 6:34 AM on November 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Some of us still can't believe that Ronald Reagan got elected.

I wish I could favorite this more. Many of us watched that addled ham actor's rising popularity and election to the Presidency with the same horror that folks today have for candidates like Trump and Carson. The current lunacy is not a new story, sadly.
posted by aught at 6:36 AM on November 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

I think it takes more than a religious conviction to discredit an internationally prominent neurosurgeon with a string of articles published in scholarly medical journals.

"I literally only think this because liberals don't like him, and I have never so much as opened a single 'scholarly' journal in my life, medical or otherwise."
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 6:40 AM on November 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Running for President Isn’t Brain Surgery
posted by andoatnp at 6:44 AM on November 6, 2015

One of the things that bugs me about the whole pyramid thing is that a pyramid shape would a terribly inefficient use of space to store grain, and completely goes against the principle of KISS.
posted by drezdn at 7:12 AM on November 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

True, Obama himself didn't, but don't underestimate the power of Will.i.am's "Yes We Can" yt viral video.

The difference is obviously that the Carson rap is unbelievably tone deaf while the Will.i.am video still makes me tear up upon rewatching it, even 7 years later and following two terms that really didn't live up to the motto.

In my experience, political hip-hop either tends to be quite angry yt or quite spiritual yt , and neither in a way that paints the candidate in a nationally-appealing way.

You link to Rage Against the Machine, but I think a good example of politically-motivated hip hop that is very angry but actually succeeds at delivering its message to people outside of the choir is Mosh by Eminem. It's from 2004 and it was in support of John Kerry (or, really, anti-Bush) and it was angry, unforgiving, and real. And yet, it almost certainly helped Kerry immensely (though not enough, of course).
posted by 256 at 7:18 AM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Ben Carson's Latest CNN Interview Was A Catastrophe
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:43 AM on November 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'm not sure you know how many seats are required for a veto-proof majority. At the moment, even if the GOP wins every Senate seat, even the very safe blue ones, they'd still be short. And I suppose it's technically possible that they could not only hold all their House seats and then win ~50 more, but both the apportionment and likelihood of losing the Presidential race but picking up so many seats make that essentially impossible.

So, then the Republicans will stay in the same gridlock mode as they operate today. It seems to be working quite well for them, considering Tuesday's results.

Really, 2016 is either going to leave things operating as they are today, or give the Republicans what they need to start dismantling government. It's pretty much a win/win outlook for them. The worst that can happen is the Democrats somehow take the Senate, which might ensure some sanity when it comes to any potential Supreme Court nominations.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:44 AM on November 6, 2015

and completely goes against the principles of KISS

Stack it up! / Stack it up! / Oooh yeah
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:51 AM on November 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

One of the things that bugs me about the whole pyramid thing is that a pyramid shape would a terribly inefficient use of space to store grain, and completely goes against the principle of KISS.

To be fair, it's not the most efficient corpse-storage method either.

I have a family event tomorrow. I am bracing myself for pro-Carson/Trump/Whoever sentiments. Or just flat-out HILARY BAD GRAAAAR.
posted by emjaybee at 7:51 AM on November 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

What's good, Ben Carson? WHAT'S GOOD?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:52 AM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Apparently Carson is angry that anyone is checking on his assertion that he had a violent temper as a teen and hit someone with a lock. Because Obama apparently never got challenged about his past.

Which reminds me, has anyone actually seen Carson's birth certificate? I'm just sayin'.
posted by emjaybee at 7:57 AM on November 6, 2015

and completely goes against the principle of KISS.

You mean, Knights In Service of Satan?
posted by aught at 8:00 AM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Part of the rise of Trump and Carson is that the rest of the candidates don't appeal much to those large, important parts of the base.

Romney and GWB were backed by the establishment, but they also had appeal to the fringes. Romney was a little more of an arrogant rich asshole than Bush, and Bush was a little better at being mean and making religious dog whistles. But both had money, arrogance, and religion working for them as well as a sheen of political success. These were not pure establishment candidates with nothing to offer the base.

Whereas Jeb has no appeal. He isn't charismatic, he doesn't seem especially religious. He even seems to suck at campaigning. Is there any other candidate who can appeal to both parts of the base that currently like Trump and Carson? Huckabee is a tired retread. Fiorina got attention but got bogged down in political details. The congressmen are all terrible. They are generic, slimy, one-dimensional puppets. They are undistinguished in all senses of the word.

So if a republican voter is backing Trump or Carlson, but starting to get cold feet, there's no one for them do fall back to, to come down to. Maybe one of the establishment schlubs to win it, but somehow it's hard to imagine any particular one of them winning, at this point.
posted by nom de poop at 8:01 AM on November 6, 2015

I think a good example of politically-motivated hip hop that is very angry but actually succeeds at delivering its message to people outside of the choir is Mosh by Eminem. It's from 2004 and it was in support of John Kerry (or, really, anti-Bush) and it was angry, unforgiving, and real. And yet, it almost certainly helped Kerry immensely (though not enough, of course).

I am not an Eminem fan, but I totally loved that track. It totally hit my fear and despair at what was happening. I always felt he brought it out too late to do enough good, though. As I recall it was only released about a week or two before the election. I felt like if the song had come out sooner and been heard more it might have made a bigger difference.
posted by dnash at 8:02 AM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

So if a republican voter is backing Trump or Carlson, but starting to get cold feet, there's no one for them do fall back to, to come down to. Maybe one of the establishment schlubs to win it

The current line is Rubio but IMHO the current line should be "Republican elites still haven't made up their mind in any obvious way."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:04 AM on November 6, 2015

Aspiring Mogul's website: "History in the music business seems to be a thing of the past." And I can't tell if that's supposed to be a joke or not.
posted by mochapickle at 8:12 AM on November 6, 2015

Bob the Angry Flower Rates the Candidates as If They Were Hamsters
posted by five fresh fish at 8:20 AM on November 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

Also, Carson was apparently a hero in the black community and his various wild beliefs were a minor or non-existent part of his story. Now he's working to completely trash his reputation. That part is sad. People looked up to him for his accomplishments and the adversity he overcame. I He's turning himself into a laughingstock.

This came up when Ta-Nehisi Coates was here doing an author Q&A last week -- he expressed a lot of anger and frustration with Carson, saying how especially upsetting it was to watch him right now when he had grown up in Baltimore with Carson being held up as someone to idolize and emulate.
posted by palomar at 8:24 AM on November 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

The Wisconsin Republican establishment is starting to put its weight behind Rubio. The Wisconsin Speaker of the House signed on as a muckety muck in the Rubio campaign, and many of the other house members have started talking him up.

In itself, that might not seem like much, but the Wisconsin's Speaker of the House roommate during college was RNC head, Reince Priebus.
posted by drezdn at 8:26 AM on November 6, 2015

RNC head, Reince Priebus

I think you meant RNC Head and Obvious Anagram Reince Priebus (h/t: Charlie Pierce).
posted by zombieflanders at 8:27 AM on November 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

Rise up, be nicer.
posted by corvine at 8:40 AM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Whoops: Ben Carson's West Point story might not hold up.
posted by drezdn at 8:43 AM on November 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Does anyone else also understand Republican presidential elections using the same bro college analogy as I do? Right now we're in the "wild summer fling" phase. Trump and Carson are crazy and exciting and will tempt you into doing things you've always wanted to try but never dared. Romney and Jeb! are the summer job at your Dad's law firm that you really don't want to do, but you'll probably end up at. And when the actual voting starts is like when school starts — time to get a little more serious, and maybe leave the summer fling behing.

Of course there's always the danger of marrying the summer fling, just to piss off your parents. That ends up 2-4 years later with a college expulsion, a wrecked credit history, a divorce, and maybe a drugs charge on your record. I think you can extend the analogy there too. (George W who?)

I think Rubio is the at-school girlfriend who will indulge some of your weird obsessions but still holds down a respectable day job. I predict that's where they'll end up.
posted by benito.strauss at 8:43 AM on November 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Is this the first time a presidential candidate is really attempting to convince everyone that he really did try to stab a friend?
posted by drezdn at 8:46 AM on November 6, 2015 [15 favorites]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Ben Carson

That essay is devastating reading. Carson really is a horrible candidate for the job.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:47 AM on November 6, 2015

Carson admits to lying about being admitted to West Point.

As Rick Perry would say, "oops."
posted by sallybrown at 8:55 AM on November 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

>> So if a republican voter is backing Trump or Carlson, but starting to get cold feet, there's no one for them do fall back to, to come down to.

> The current line is Rubio but IMHO the current line should be "Republican elites still haven't made up their mind in any obvious way."

and also too:

think Rubio is the at-school girlfriend who will indulge some of your weird obsessions but still holds down a respectable day job. I predict that's where they'll end up.

A few weeks ago I was firmly on this bandwagon. No way in hell is Trump the nominee; Carson is a direct mail scam operation that is stuck in a Producers-esque situation; Jeb! has been revealed to be naked, so it'll be Rubio.

But I'm beginning to think that the base really is going to shoot the hostage this time. There's no going back to the mainstream choice because the anointed choice (¡Jeb) is a disaster, and Rubio is a lightweight with all the smarminess of a used car salesman.

It's going to be Trump.

The FSM save us all.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:16 AM on November 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Idiocracy wasn't just a movie, it was prophesy.

Idiocracy isn't as dystopian as it seems.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:24 AM on November 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Okay, it had to be done, so I've done it (with a little help from a friend or two): #SpacemanCarson

Just pairing Dr. Leo Spaceman with Dr. Ben Carson images. It's almost too easy.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:43 AM on November 6, 2015 [13 favorites]

From the RedState quote above: On the other hand, Hillary Clinton believes in man-induced global warming.

I don't get this. Republicans don't respect scientists. I understand that. It's ridiculous but it's a known quantity of their party.

But they worship money and the companies / individuals who make money. They also have an intense love for resource extraction firms. So why hasn't something like Exxon's reports, which has known about climate change for years, swayed them? Or insurance companies, which have altered their coverage for at-risk areas. For the stated reasons of climate change.

Or the fucking military. Republicans love everything to do with the military. And the military is altering their future plans and equipment to adjust for future climate changes. And have been quite public about it.

I don't get it at all. Not only is the scientific evidence overwhelming, but the Republican's own beloved entities also agree that climate change is a reality. The politicians might still go with the people that bought them, like the Kochs. But the rank-and-file conservatives should be asking some hard questions.
posted by honestcoyote at 10:00 AM on November 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

I'll wait for the chopped and screwed version, myself.
posted by jonmc at 10:05 AM on November 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I prefer his earlier stuff.
posted by funkiwan at 10:13 AM on November 6, 2015

This has all happened before...
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 10:32 AM on November 6, 2015

I'll call it now: Kasich/Rubio.

White, middle-aged, experienced, not-obviously-batshit Midwest governor plus young, semi-experienced, Southern Latino senator who'll land the follow-on administration.
posted by the sobsister at 11:06 AM on November 6, 2015

Kasich not batshit? In what context is that?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:08 AM on November 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

honestcoyote - carefully managed cognitive dissonance, the same way Carson can be a brain surgeon and not believe in science.
posted by Artw at 11:09 AM on November 6, 2015

I'm amazed that Cruz and Rubio are the same age because I always think of them as like ten years apart at least.
posted by sweetkid at 11:09 AM on November 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Rubio has the unnatural smoothness of a freshly painted synth job plus a gangly debate club teen affect.

Cruz on the other hand looks like the midway point between senator Kelly in X-Men melting into that jellyfish blob. Posture wise he seems to be struggling not to hunch over and rub his hands Mr. Burns like
posted by The Whelk at 11:13 AM on November 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

Kasich is not getting the nomination. Outside chance of a VP nod? Possible. Top of ticket? Not a chance.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 11:15 AM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Anybody living in Ohio who's been directly affected by Kasich's policies would beg to differ with the "not-obviously-batshit" designation. He barely registers in the national polls and has been a non-entity in the debates, so we can probably write him off within the next couple of months I think.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:17 AM on November 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

I'm still about 60% certain that Cruz is just Will Forte playing an Andy-Kaufman-style long game.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:21 AM on November 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship
posted by Frayed Knot at 11:22 AM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

the same way Carson can be a brain surgeon and not believe in science.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:32 AM on November 6, 2015

Republicans love everything to do with the military. And the military is altering their future plans and equipment to adjust for future climate changes. And have been quite public about it.

I don't get it at all. Not only is the scientific evidence overwhelming, but the Republican's own beloved entities also agree that climate change is a reality.

I'm sure the thinking in the GOP is that the black guy in the White House is strong-arming the Pentagon to take warming seriously. Once there's a real President in-power, though, that nonsense will be dropped like a hot potato.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:33 AM on November 6, 2015

The Conspiracy Theories Of Ben Carson: A Brief Introduction
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:41 AM on November 6, 2015

Chances this West Point thing turns into a stolen valor issue that puts him out of the running by Thanksgiving?
posted by rhizome at 12:05 PM on November 6, 2015

I think a good example of politically-motivated hip hop that is very angry but actually succeeds at delivering its message to people outside of the choir is Mosh by Eminem.

We discussed "Mosh" at the time as it happens. My own remarks are here, here, and here. I'm skeptical that it had any effect on the Kerry campaign at all, but who knows? It's hard to measure these kinds of things.

Carson admits to lying about being admitted to West Point.

Times like these make me long for the IMG tag.

Is Ben Carson For Preident A Direct Mail Scam?

The almost umbilical connection between grift and fringe politics, especially on the right, is utterly remarkable. In this instance, Ben Carson is just a step or two up from "Willie's Truth Call." (And if on a day you're feeling too full of love and respect for your fellow (wo)man, listen to one of Willie's calls.)
posted by octobersurprise at 12:11 PM on November 6, 2015

Ignorance and Arrogance
posted by andoatnp at 12:17 PM on November 6, 2015

Ben Carson: token candidate
posted by andoatnp at 12:19 PM on November 6, 2015

How is this guy a legitimate candidate?

He's not. He's a Republican.
posted by Naberius at 12:27 PM on November 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

How is this guy a legitimate candidate?

He's not. He's a Republican.

I wish someone could actually answer that question in a way that resonates. I didn't know much about him before the debates, but it says on his Wikipedia page that he only declared as Republican because it would be advantageous for him in a Presidential run.

I mean I think he has some deeply held religious beliefs that translate as pretty nutty, but I think he's "crazy like a fox" and am really curious what's going on here. Pretty much all my white Republican Facebook friends are posting support for him, and no one else. They're not all evangelical, though they are mostly very pro military.

What is this Ben Carson thing really about?
posted by sweetkid at 12:32 PM on November 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Here in mostly white, conservative, pro-military Colorado Springs (from my living room window, I can see a FIRE OBAMA sign in the window of the building across the street), it's a sea of Ben Carson bumper stickers. And Carly Fiorina. I'm stumped.
posted by mochapickle at 12:37 PM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I think the republicans like him because they are eager to throw the "racism" charge back in the face of the Dems. I think they are sick of being called racists for hating on Obama.
posted by spaceviking at 12:37 PM on November 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

He's a crazy person who hates science. So are republicans. Also he's a black person who uses racist dog whistles and republicans like racism and think having a black person do it is way more of a gotcha than it actually is.
posted by Artw at 12:38 PM on November 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Oh yeah, and competence stopped being an advantage and in fact became the opposite.
posted by Artw at 12:40 PM on November 6, 2015

What is this Ben Carson thing really about?

A chunk of grift, a lump of ideological/spiritual combat, a dash of rage and alienation, a pinch of tribal solidarity, and a soupçon of nihilism.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:56 PM on November 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

I think the republicans like him because they are eager to throw the "racism" charge back in the face of the Dems. I think they are sick of being called racists for hating on Obama.

By serving as tokens, Carson and other black Republican candidates allow racist whites to continue to hide from their racism.
posted by andoatnp at 1:02 PM on November 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Basically a human version of #notyourshield.
posted by Artw at 1:10 PM on November 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

Every time I try to seriously ask "but seriously, why" about the Republicans, I turn into Will Farrell in Zoolander.
posted by emjaybee at 1:18 PM on November 6, 2015

Ben Carson Defends Himself Against Allegations That He Never Attempted to Murder a Child
posted by azarbayejani at 1:53 PM on November 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

octobersurprise: ... a soupçon of nihilism.

That's one October surprise I could do without. A primal scream of rage at their disenfranchisement, at the gains of the Other at their expense - burn it all down.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:59 PM on November 6, 2015

Well that's basically the republican approach across the board right now isn't it? Fuck governance, they just want to burn things down and sit in the ashes.
posted by Artw at 2:11 PM on November 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Chances this West Point thing turns into a stolen valor issue that puts him out of the running by Thanksgiving?

0%

I wouldn't be surprised if he was made a similar offer as I was: If you apply, we will ensure you get in. But I, like Dr. Carson, never applied.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:25 PM on November 6, 2015

skewed: "followed by the Santorum surge"

Ick!
posted by Splunge at 3:18 PM on November 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Conservatives slam ~~Tiger Beat on the Potomac~~ Politico after they change their headline to be slightly less inflammatory.
posted by dirigibleman at 3:35 PM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

The conservative response seems to be focusing on their assertion that the West Pont claim does not in fact appear in Gifted Hands, which, if true, would probably deflate the scandal and make it a lot easier to blame on lazy or misleading reporting.

But, after a quick google, nope, the claim definitely appears in the book, via @BenjySarlin:
"For those looking for ambiguous wording in Gifted Hands on the West Point scholarship, it isn't there"
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:57 PM on November 6, 2015

We don't know that he's either got money or still able to practice neurosurgery. Ever since he started his run, I've wondered if there's something physically or mentally wrong with him; sixty-two is a pretty young age for a successful neurosurgeon to retire. Even if there were some purely physical problem preventing him from doing surgery, though, there are things such as teaching, writing, doing research, medical administration, and/or serving on the boards of corporations--all of which he was doing at one time or another before he began his campaign.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:48 AM on November 6

I want to go back to this because this is something that has been bothering me for weeks. He spent his entire adult life training to be and practicing as a pediatric neurosurgeon. Then after 25 years as head of his department he just walks away from it all. He has said he wanted to go out while he was on top of his game, and I can understand no longer performing surgery if you distrust your coordination or eyesight, but to walk away from all of medicine? That seems very strange. Why not teach? Why not administer? It is very weird and I keep expecting to hear some hints about him being forced out or making a serious mistake that got hushed up.

I can't ever pass up a news story with his name in the title and my news feed has a lot of them. My favorite thing at the moment has to be him comparing himself to Noah: "The ark was built by an amateur, the Titanic was built by professionals." As my husband pointed out, it wasn't the professionals who failed, it was God who sent a big iceberg to rip open the ship. (If you believe in God.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:43 PM on November 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

The anti-science Bilblical history wingnuttery is probably more compatible with a clinical position than an academic or administrative one. How would his stories about God intervening to save patients he was losing on the operating table go over in a classroom? Can a serious institution have an administrator who publicly espouses the kinds of whacky stuff Carson does?
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:58 PM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Real school or Jesus school?
posted by Artw at 5:00 PM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

The former. He can always do the latter once this current gig peters out, but to do it first would devalue the medical cred he trades on.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:09 PM on November 6, 2015

If he was lecturing on his specialty, though, I'm sure any medical school would be glad to have him....make that: would have been before he revealed his wingnuttines, now he is a laughingstock to anyone with a brain. I doubt any serious institute of learning would have him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:28 PM on November 6, 2015

I expect we'll learn that he's had an aneurysm or other brain tissue injury.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:47 PM on November 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

That's what I was thinking, FFF. It is extremely unusual for someone who is foremost in his area of expertise retire from the field so completely.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:52 PM on November 6, 2015

make that: would have been before he revealed his wingnuttines

Didn't some of this stuff come out while he was still practicing? Although I guess that just as easily weighs in the other direction — the pyramids lecture video is from 1998, but he was at Johns Hopkins through 2013.

Here's their press release.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:12 PM on November 6, 2015

“The Thugification of Ben Carson,” Goldie Taylor, The Daily Beast, 06 November 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 6:57 PM on November 6, 2015

Caught a brief snippet of Carson talking about the West Point thing on the radio tonight; he compared his repeated fabulisms over the years to someone digging up his kindergarten teacher to talk about how he peed his pants in school once.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:59 PM on November 6, 2015

I'd love to see someone update Steve Martin's King Tut with Carson quotes.

Make it happen universe.
posted by futz at 9:02 PM on November 6, 2015

Hell, I'll do it myself.
posted by futz at 9:12 PM on November 6, 2015

King Tut
They're pullin' out my brain-a
King Tut
In a silo full of grain-a
posted by Sys Rq at 9:18 PM on November 6, 2015 [19 favorites]

King whut?
posted by jaguar at 9:40 PM on November 6, 2015

OMG Sys Rq, I laughed so hard at that. Favoriting you doesn't seem enough, I want you to know I nearly bust a lung.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:27 AM on November 7, 2015

now he is a laughingstock to anyone with a brain. I doubt any serious institute of learning would have him.

You'd think: Physicians to Columbia University: ‘Dismayed’ that Dr. Oz is on faculty
posted by Room 641-A at 7:56 AM on November 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

"Ultimate Trickster Ben Carson Claims He Was Named "Most Honest" Student in Yale Class That Didn't Exist"
posted by sallybrown at 8:08 AM on November 7, 2015 [5 favorites]

Ben Carson's house: an homage to himself – in pictures
The decor at Ben Carson’s home in Maryland shows that Donald Trump may not have the biggest ego among the Republican candidates. On display are awards, certificates, medals, and a painting of himself with Jesus
posted by andoatnp at 8:16 AM on November 7, 2015 [7 favorites]

He has *multiple* paintings of himself. I really hope these were gifts.
posted by Artw at 8:21 AM on November 7, 2015

Are you...are you saying it's not normal to have paintings of yourself hanging all over your house? What am I supposed to do, replace them with mirrors?
posted by sallybrown at 8:22 AM on November 7, 2015 [8 favorites]

He has *multiple* paintings of himself.

How else is he supposed to prevent aging?
posted by drezdn at 8:37 AM on November 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

"poverbs"? "poverbs"?! This is chiseled into the wall. Doesn't say much about his attention to detail.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:43 AM on November 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

Now I'm distracted by the possible side effects of having multiple Dorian Grey style paintings - what happens if they *age differently*?
posted by Artw at 8:44 AM on November 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

He has a quote from the previously unknown book of the bible "Poverbs" to remind him to be humble.
posted by humanfont at 8:46 AM on November 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

Ultimate Trickster Ben Carson Claims He Was Named "Most Honest" Student in Yale Class That Didn't Exist

Come on now, you gotta put a #nottheonion on that sort of lead
posted by M Edward at 9:08 AM on November 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

Ben Carson’s Past Faces Deeper Questions (google link)

In his 1990 autobiography, “Gifted Hands,” Mr. Carson writes of a Yale psychology professor who told Mr. Carson, then a junior, and the other students in the class—identified by Mr. Carson as Perceptions 301—that their final exam papers had “inadvertently burned,” requiring all 150 students to retake it. The new exam, Mr. Carson recalled in the book, was much tougher. All the students but Mr. Carson walked out.

“The professor came toward me. With her was a photographer for the Yale Daily News who paused and snapped my picture,” Mr. Carson wrote. “ ‘A hoax,’ the teacher said. ‘We wanted to see who was the most honest student in the class.’ ” Mr. Carson wrote that the professor handed him a $10 bill.

No photo identifying Mr. Carson as a student ever ran, according to the Yale Daily News archives, and no stories from that era mention a class called Perceptions 301. Yale Librarian Claryn Spies said Friday there was no psychology course by that name or class number during any of Mr. Carson’s years at Yale.

(via)

Whoops, looks like this was linked to in the Gawker story above.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:18 AM on November 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

Then there was the time that he and his buddies missed a test because they were in jail out of town, and they decided to say that they had a flat tire and couldn't get towed.
posted by thelonius at 9:28 AM on November 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

*sigh*. When he was a credible threat as the Republican candidate I though it was really important that he be stopped. But it looks like he's going to get ripped to shreds in the public square and I'm feeling kinda-sorta bad for him.

I'm seeing attacks come from the polite right wing establishment (e.g. Wall Street Journal) so there's no holding back now. He's going to go from someone widely beloved and respected for his accomplishments to a figure of general ridicule. The only people who will stay by him are the few who personally care for him and a bigger crowd who find him and his strange world view useful for their own ends. The latter are a toxic group.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:31 AM on November 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

Testing people's honesty by perpetuating a hoax is...an interesting concept.

Something tells me, if that story actually happened, the second test was probably one of those "READ ALL QUESTIONS BEFORE ANSWERING ANY" joke tests where one of them is something like "Stand up and announce that you have read the instructions" and the last one is "Now that you have read all the questions, you may ignore them and leave the class. Have a great summer!"

I mean, how would walking out indicate dishonesty?
posted by Sys Rq at 9:38 AM on November 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

> “ ‘A hoax,’ the teacher said. ‘We wanted to see who was the most honest student in the class.’ ”

Wait, how does that even make sense within its own context? How is not walking out of the classroom more "honest"? What does that have to do with honesty? It's like the person who wrote it doesn't even understand what the word "honest" means, or ...

... oooooooooh.
posted by kyrademon at 9:52 AM on November 7, 2015 [16 favorites]

That reads like something Mr. Burns would write in his own autobiography.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:57 AM on November 7, 2015 [6 favorites]

That reads like something Mr. Burns would write in his own autobiography.

The first thing I thought when I heard about these lies was how it actually sounded like Bart Simpson winning Laddie at a church carnival two towns over, in a 'truth telling contest.'
posted by mordax at 10:00 AM on November 7, 2015 [5 favorites]

No photo identifying Mr. Carson as a student ever ran, according to the Yale Daily News archives, and no stories from that era mention a class called Perceptions 301.

How certain are we that Ben Carson even went to school? How certain are we that his name is even "Ben Carson"?

Wake up sheeple! My reptiloid theory is looking more and more plausible!
posted by octobersurprise at 10:02 AM on November 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

Ben Carson is actually a muslim man born in Kenya who has spent the last eight years playing an elaborate prank.
posted by humanfont at 10:11 AM on November 7, 2015

I'm flabbergasted by that hoax story. I agree that the moral "honesty means you don't refuse to re-take a test" makes zero sense. Are we sure he doesn't have a brain tumor? This man's thought processes are bizarre. "I need to prove that I was a better student than anyone else at Yale. Lots of students had good grades but maybe I can prove I was the most honest. I know, I'll lie about falling for a hoax-- that will prove I'm honest!"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:12 AM on November 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

...a painting of himself with Jesus

Beard, mullet, karategi... I think that's actually Chuck Norris in the painting.
posted by peeedro at 10:18 AM on November 7, 2015

This is all reminding me very much of The Duggars. They sold themselves as a reality TV show super-Christian family who raised 19 godly children by living frugally and home schooling. . The weird thing is that there was a giant turd in their background-- their son was accused of molesting their daughters when he was 14. They knew this when they signed up for their television show and yet it never seemed to occur to them that one day the secret would get out and their perfect, godly family would be revealed as less than perfect. They didn't have to become public figures, they chose to.

It really seems like Ben Carson has been telling whoppers for many years about himself yet he chose to run for president-- an act that would ensure his past would come under intense scrutiny. Did he forget how all these stories he tells are actually lies or did he think it wouldn't matter?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:22 AM on November 7, 2015 [8 favorites]

Everyone is talking about the misspelling in stone but all I see are those sexy golden angel idols on the mantle.
posted by The Whelk at 10:25 AM on November 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

Most of those stories sound like something a pastor would throw in to a sermon. Like parables, you're trying to make a point and just how true the details are isn't of concern.

Of course we want government officials to be able to distinguish reality from confabulation, (although people didn't seem to care so much about Reagan's difficulty doing so). I'm also expecting a new "Religious Freedom (From Scrutiny)" movement, where, if you claim some degree of Christianity people aren't allowed to challenge anything you say.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:28 AM on November 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

Yeah, SLoG, I get the same feeling about a collision of worlds. I've been wanting to resurrect the "epistemic closure" idea, although this time, instead of the right-wing blogosphere/media complex, it's a Bible-based Christian Fundamentalism that Carson has been wrapped in. But there's the same clash and confusion when this closed system has to interact with the outer world.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:33 AM on November 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

I would really like to see some interviews with former colleagues, girlfriends, neighbors, and others who have spent time around him. So far the most I'm seeing are people who remember him as a kid and fellow college students who all say he was boring and soft-spoken. I know people mis-remember and even lie for reasons of hatred or love, but I feel like if enough people were interviewed we would start to see some sort of pattern-- possibly that he is very boring and soft-spoken. Yet his house is a monument to himself and he has written 8 books lauding himself so there is something a bit off about him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:52 AM on November 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

It's a test of honesty because other students were saying they would claim they had not received the notice to retake the test, when they left.

Carson proclaimed to himself that he could not lie about not having received the notice that the retest was happening. His honesty forced him to stay and finish the test.
posted by andoatnp at 11:11 AM on November 7, 2015

The test story is wildly implausible, but the basic lesson that Carson is more honest that all the other students who left and lied about receiving notice, makes sense within the internal context of the story.
posted by andoatnp at 11:15 AM on November 7, 2015

Mr. Carson writes of a Yale psychology professor who told Mr. Carson, then a junior, and the other students in the class—identified by Mr. Carson as Perceptions 301—that their final exam papers had “inadvertently burned,” requiring all 150 students to retake it. The new exam, Mr. Carson recalled in the book, was much tougher. All the students but Mr. Carson walked out.

I don't see anything about a notice. He says that the professor told the class, which I take to mean the professor stood in front of the class and told them, and all of the classmates just walked out of the class.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:22 AM on November 7, 2015

Ok the notice does appear in the book, Gifted Hands. The other students start taking the test but then say that they will pretend they never saw the notice. However the $10 becomes an important part of the story. The year before he had been flat broke and prayed to God to send him money so he could get to church. Then as he was walking along he found a $10.00 bill. A year later he was again flat broke, so he looked for $10.00 on the ground as he walked towards the test. No luck. Then he takes the test and is rewarded with a $10.00 bill for being so honest.

He writes this for the most gullible of people. I can't even....
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:33 AM on November 7, 2015 [6 favorites]

Here is the Kevin Drum summary:

Ben is broke. Finds ten-dollar bill on sidewalk. Thank you, Lord!
A year later, Ben is broke again. Looks for ten-dollar bill, doesn't find one.
Ben gets notice that all the final exams in Perceptions 301 were accidentally lit on fire. He goes in for the retest.
The new test is really, really hard. A girl near Ben tells her classmate they should leave. "We can say we didn't read the notice."
Everyone starts leaving. Ben is conflicted. "I was tempted to walk out, but I had read the notice, and I couldn't lie and say I hadn't."
Eventually Ben is the only one left. The professor comes back in with a Yale Daily News photographer. The whole thing was a hoax, she said. "We wanted to see who was the most honest student in the class. And that's you."
Ben concludes the story: "The professor then did something even better. She handed me a ten-dollar bill."
End scene.

posted by andoatnp at 11:53 AM on November 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

Yup, also from the Kevin Drum summary:

No one who's not an evangelical Christian would believe it for a second. But evangelicals hear testimonies like this all the time. They expect testimonies like this, and the more improbable the better. So Carson gives them one. It's clumsy because he's not very good at inventing this kind of thing, but that doesn't matter much.

posted by benito.strauss at 12:06 PM on November 7, 2015 [6 favorites]

You can read it in his actual words by going to Amazon, "look inside" search for "hoax." Which brings up something else about this story that bothers me:

"Forget it," I heard one girl say to another. "Let's go back and study this. We can say we didn't read the notice. Then when they repeat it we'll be ready."

Is this really how Yale administers final exams? You go into the auditorium, start taking the exam, and if it is too hard you can leave and go study some more and then come back to take the same exam at a different time? That sounds absurdly trusting. At the very least I would expect that you would have to sign in before getting the exam, so that they can prevent people from walking off with final exam sheets.

Again I have to repeat that no professor is going to label a kid in his class "The Most Honest student at Yale" if all this was a hoax or even if it wasn't. It is only one class not the entire University.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:15 PM on November 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

Marine Todd himself handed him the $10.
posted by Artw at 12:15 PM on November 7, 2015 [9 favorites]

"Citizen, I earned it!"
posted by rhizome at 12:20 PM on November 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

> Is this really how Yale administers final exams? ... That sounds absurdly trusting.

I got an even higher level of trust at my college, but almost everything else rings wrong. Past the whole "guy's not anchored in reality" problem there is interesting stuff there w.r.t. cultural markers. Like, I couldn't write two convincing sentences on the goings on at an evangelical church, but I've got lots of experience and friends in academia, and his story is so contrary to reality I know I was never expected to read it.
posted by benito.strauss at 12:44 PM on November 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

How would the professor know that students would choose to lie and say they hadn't seen the notice? They could have reacted in some other way and not lied, and then no one would have been being dishonest.

Argh why am I trying to find any sort of logic in this argh.
posted by jaguar at 12:56 PM on November 7, 2015 [5 favorites]

Was there money waiting for the rest of the class that just went on beer? What's the budget for this kind of thing?
posted by Artw at 12:59 PM on November 7, 2015 [6 favorites]

The most insane part, to my mind, is the idea that a college professor would give a student $10 for "being honest". Never in a million years. Maybe when you're three, mommy will give you a lollipop for that. In grownup life, it doesn't happen, and if anyone tried it you'd think they were off their rocker.

No wait, the most insane part is that he made up a lie about how honest he is.
posted by rifflesby at 1:18 PM on November 7, 2015 [8 favorites]

The professor then did something even better. She handed me a ten-dollar bill

The professor handed Ben the ten-dollar bill. "This is even better than getting my name in the school paper," he said. He noticed that one of the students who had gotten up and left had come back and had seen the whole thing. She began clapping her hands slowly. Soon, more students filed back into the classroom and joined the growing chorus of applause. One student softly chanted "Ben Ben Ben." Others followed and it grew to a deafening volume. One student passed around a hat and everyone put in some bills. When it reached Ben, there was $50 in the hat. "What the heck, you earned it," the professor said, adding another $10 bill to the pile.

That professor's name?

Albert Einstein.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 1:23 PM on November 7, 2015 [28 favorites]

National Review:

Let’s begin with two propositions: There is a difference between an admirable man and a perfect man, and there is a difference between “vetting” and viciousness. The collective goal of the liberal media is now clear — to take one of America’s most admired and brilliant men and somehow transform him into a dishonest, stupid extremist. The vetting of Ben Carson has become vicious, and to what end? An admirable man has been exposed as imperfect.

I love how elastic the concept of "liberal media" is. Somehow Politico and The Wall Street Fucking Journal are now part of the liberal conspicuous to take down Dr. Carson.
posted by octothorpe at 1:30 PM on November 7, 2015 [9 favorites]

This just in: Brain Surgery is not Rocket Science.
posted by y2karl at 1:52 PM on November 7, 2015

“Where Politico's Ben Carson 'scoop' went wrong,” Dylan Byers, CNN Money, 06 November 2015

octothorpe: I love how elastic the concept of "liberal media" is. Somehow Politico and The Wall Street Fucking Journal are now part of the liberal conspicuous to take down Dr. Carson.

Right? My most reliable Facebook Usual Suspect posted a status along the lines of, "Of course Politico lied, those liberal-media liars. They just want to bring a good man down." But I'm the one that doesn't understand politics, media, or anything about way the world works.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:55 PM on November 7, 2015

Now back to your regular Benghazi.
posted by Artw at 2:07 PM on November 7, 2015

Brain Surgery is not Rocket Science
posted by kyrademon at 2:37 PM on November 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

Look when Jesus wants you to have ten dollars he can't just hand it to you

He doesn't carry a wallet. And all he has is a bunch of shekels from his last visit.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:51 PM on November 7, 2015

no no no-no no
posted by maggieb at 2:58 PM on November 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

More details emerge about Ben Carson's school days.
posted by teraflop at 3:08 PM on November 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

I wonder how Cuba Gooding, Jr. feels about all this....
posted by brand-gnu at 5:24 PM on November 7, 2015

MetaFilter: The Liberal Conspicuous
posted by Wolfdog at 5:48 PM on November 7, 2015

(PDF) In latest Quinnipiac poll, Carson leads Republicans, beats Clinton 50-40.

Hilariously: "Carson gets the best honesty grades among top candidates, a positive 62 – 24 percent."
posted by dirigibleman at 5:52 PM on November 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

octothorpe: "I love how elastic the concept of "liberal media" is. Somehow Politico and The Wall Street Fucking Journal are now part of the liberal conspicuous to take down Dr. Carson."

Um, I'm assuming you knew that I meant liberal conspiracy. Stupid chrome spell-check.
posted by octothorpe at 7:43 PM on November 7, 2015

(PDF) In latest Quinnipiac poll, Carson leads Republicans, beats Clinton 50-40.

I clicked through because I was sure you had to be lying. How are you not lying? This should not be true.
posted by cashman at 8:13 PM on November 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

It may be true, but that doesn't mean it's accurate.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:25 PM on November 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

If you ask U.K. bookies, Carson's hardly even on the list.
posted by rifflesby at 9:13 PM on November 7, 2015

I love how elastic the concept of "liberal media" is. Somehow Politico and The Wall Street Fucking Journal are now part of the liberal conspicuous to take down Dr. Carson.

Right? I had Googled some of these claims and the sites supporting him were basically, "Well, sure if you pay attention to what he said, then you're doing a liberal-media gotcha. If you are willing to ignore three levels of surface-level meaning in order to embrace seriously-hidden implicit meanings, then, hey! That means you're ethical." Like, what? I'm sorry, if you give the impression that you were admitted to West Point, then you need to acknowledge that you created that impression, not try to pillory the press that assumes you meant what you said.
posted by jaguar at 9:25 PM on November 7, 2015 [7 favorites]

Those theoretical matchup polls are pretty much meaningless right now. And as 2000 taught us, popular vote in the general is meaningless too.
posted by octothorpe at 8:07 AM on November 8, 2015

Clearly we need Carson's input on the red cups scandal.
posted by Artw at 11:31 AM on November 8, 2015

He's totes one of those people who thinks they have God at their beck and call.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:58 PM on November 8, 2015

Well, that sort of thing worked out well for the country during the bush era property boom.
posted by Artw at 2:05 PM on November 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

The red cups scandal, oh my fucking lord.
I think it should spin as "Religious Fundamentalists Attack Free Market Principles by Protesting Corporate Design Choices"
posted by Saxon Kane at 7:10 PM on November 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

It is the stupidest thing I have heard for... At least days.
posted by Artw at 7:30 PM on November 8, 2015

Starbucks should just respond saying the red represents the blood of Jesus.
posted by drezdn at 8:15 PM on November 8, 2015 [4 favorites]

I went looking for information on Patrick & Benjamin Binder, the conjoined twins that Carson famously separated in 1987. I was curious about their outcomes -- did they make it to adulthood? -- but I found precious little. In and of itself, that's not so surprising; I can understand declining to be treated as a research subject/medical oddity! But I was a little saddened by the bit of information I did find [1, 2] from the two years following the surgery, both of which seem quite grim yet feature Carson making much rosier statements than his colleagues. In the second article, the mother faults Hopkins for giving her false hope for her sons' recovery; it's something the other drs at Hopkins deny, but if the quote by Carson in the earlier piece is representative of what she was told, I can imagine how she'd feel misled....

Lots of ifs here, obviously: the media quoting Carson may have been too quick to take a flashy out-of-context soundbite, and the mother may have misunderstood or been inclined toward excessive optimism herself. I just really hope that's what it is, and not Carson being so enamored of his own skills that he embellished not only stories about college life, but the prognoses of his patients.
posted by Westringia F. at 11:18 PM on November 8, 2015

To be fair Carson was part of a team that successfully separated conjoined twins in 1997, ten years after the Binders. Maybe that operation is the one he's talking about.
posted by rdr at 5:27 AM on November 9, 2015

The red cups scandal, oh my fucking lord.
I think it should spin as "Religious Fundamentalists Attack Free Market Principles by Protesting Corporate Design Choices"

Perhaps "Former evangelical pastor who proposed fighting LGBT rights with assault weapons now complaining about 'religious freedom'" would work just as well.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:24 AM on November 9, 2015

drezdn: Starbucks should just respond saying the red represents the blood of Jesus.

I was at a Christmas party, maybe 9-years-old, and having my first slice of red velvet cake in my life when I got told the color represented the blood of Jesus. Very festive!

This Carson surge has been giving me the heebie-jeebies though. His performance on the Sunday shows isn't helping.
posted by ob1quixote at 7:47 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]

What does the blood of Christ have to do with Christmas? That's more of an Eastery thing.

Unless it's, like, umbilical cord blood.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:34 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]

Oh, that shit has stem cells, it's super good.
posted by Artw at 10:38 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]

> Whoops: Ben Carson's West Point story might not hold up.

Eh, of all of the fabrications and sketchy things he's said, this particular story is more of a truthiness nitpick than a solid gotcha.
posted by desuetude at 11:47 AM on November 9, 2015

I don't really care about the veracity of Carson's stories about his youth, lots of candidates have been dinged in similar ways. I'm sure that some of my memories of my childhood aren't quite right and wouldn't stand up to fact-checking.

I do care a lot about his wacky policy ideas though. I wish that people would talk more about those than some personal story from fifty years ago.
posted by octothorpe at 11:56 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]

octothorpe has it right, I think. The West Point "scandal" seems more like an exaggeration or tall tale that Carson got caught in, not really a big deal. But, and this isn't to demonize someone's faith, but the how the hell are we supposed to expect this guy to make rational decisions based on sound evidence when he holds wacked out beliefs like the pyramids being used to hold grain? I mean, this isn't a debated question or something; he just denies the evidence and findings of archaeology in favor of believing in a story from the Bible. How can anyone think he'll make decisions based on science or sound policy when he just ignores that in favor of his spiritual book? It's crazy talk.
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:27 PM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]

I don't really care about the veracity of Carson's stories about his youth, lots of candidates have been dinged in similar ways. I'm sure that some of my memories of my childhood aren't quite right and wouldn't stand up to fact-checking.

It's of course true that our honest recollections of what happened in our childhood will change over time, but I don't think it's the case that just because some other politicians have embellished their life stories means it's okay to do in this case. Even if Carson's ideas weren't batshit, the specific ways in which he's stretching these stories out into morality plays where he's the hero is very problematic when you consider that his base is made up in large part of a bunch of credulous rubes, the kind of folks who fall for multi-level marketing scams, televangelists, and the like. It's also important to note that his response has been to double down on his story, facts be damned:

So what really happened? The true story, it turns out, bears almost no resemblance to Carson’s inspirational tale. In January of 1970 (when Carson was a freshman, not a junior), the Yale Record, a student-produced humor magazine, printed a parody issue of the Daily News, that included an item reporting that series of exams for a psychology course had been destroyed, and that a make-up exam would be held on the evening of January 14. According to a report next day in the Daily News, “several” students fell for the hoax, and showed up to take the fake exam, which the pranksters took the trouble to produce, and that closely resembled the actual exam, which had been administered two days earlier.

Incredibly (a word that is difficult to avoid using repeatedly when discussing Ben Carson) the eminent Johns Hopkins neurosurgeon posted a reproduction of the Daily News report on his Facebook page yesterday, as proof that the Wall Street Journal was incorrect when it suggested that Carson had fabricated the story told in Gifted Hands.

But of course Carson’s “proof” strongly suggests that the story he tells in Gifted Hands is false in practically every detail, except for the fact – if it is a fact, as we have only Carson’s word on the matter – that he fell for a hoax.

When one remembers that the point of Carson’s elaborate fabrication was to emphasize his exceptional honesty, the question arises whether Carson is a pathological liar, that is, someone who lies compulsively, and in ways that are so excessive and out of control that they seem unconnected to any practical purpose. (Carson’s real life story is compelling enough that concocting bizarrely improbable tales of this sort seems both totally unnecessary and potentially self-destructive).

It’s also possible that Carson is so severely narcissistic that he is actively delusional, and is no longer capable of distinguishing his fabrications about his past from his actual past. In other words, by now Carson’s transformation of a trivially embarrassing incident into an elaborate story of providential delivery and personal triumph may be so complete in his own mind that he has literally forgotten that he made it all up.

I just don't see how one can draw a bright line between his fabrications about life events and his nutty ideas -- they seem to be coming from the same place.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:56 PM on November 9, 2015 [11 favorites]

Ctrl-F "popeye" -- Phrase not found.

How did we get 284 comments into a Ben Carson thread (with special emphasis on questionable story-telling) without talking about his Popeye's armed robbery story? Remember that one? If ever there was a walking embodiment of the concept of "truthiness", it's Dr. Carson.
posted by mhum at 1:42 PM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]

So, based on that linked article, I just looked at Carson's Facebook page, and he's refuting things with other things that don't actually refute the thing. He posted a link to a syllabus to "prove" that Yale does have a course called "Perception," except it's a syllabus from 2002, with readings from the 80s and 90s, which in no way demonstrates that such a course existed in 1970. He posted that Daily News article saying there was a prank to prove... I don't even know what he thinks that proves. And all the posts have various "Yeah, the liberal media is totally making stuff up!" comments from supporters. It's bizarre-o world.
posted by jaguar at 1:44 PM on November 9, 2015

From here on out it will be easier to catalogue any truthful statements he happens to make, than to enumerate his lies.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:50 PM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]

I think it is important to nail down all of the details in the stories he tells about himself because so many of the stories we will never be able to prove or disprove. There is no concrete evidence that God didn't give him the answers to a test in a dream, for example, and there never will be. However by getting the story on his "Full Scholarship to West Point" or the $10.00 he got for being "The most honest student in Yale" you can start to see a pattern to the way he remembers or tells his inspirational stories about himself. It won't turn off true believers, but if he does get the nomination all of this shading and manipulation of the truth might sway independent voters.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:30 PM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]

Ben Carson hasn't held political office. He doesn't have a voting record on the city council, in the state house, in the senate, anywhere. What he has is his life story and his opinions so it's entirely fair that the stories he tells about his life get extra scrutiny.
posted by rdr at 5:44 PM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]

Here's what I don't get about the guy: what's his appeal to NON-fundamentalist/evangelical Republicans?
posted by Saxon Kane at 5:50 PM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]

They hate science too.
posted by Artw at 6:09 PM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]

For 15 years we've had to endure Al Gore jokes over his alleged exagerations from these same conservstives who are crying today over poor Ben Carson.
posted by humanfont at 7:27 PM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]

Reality Check, Robert Reich

The other night I phoned a former Republican member of Congress with whom I’d worked in the 1990s on various pieces of legislation. I consider him a friend. I wanted his take on the Republican candidates because I felt I needed a reality check. Was I becoming excessively crotchety and partisan, or are these people really as weird as they seem? We got right into it:

Me: “So what do really you think of these candidates?”

Him: “You want my unvarnished opinion?”

Me: "Please. That’s why I called.”

Him: “They’re all nuts.”

Me: “Seriously. What do you really think of them?”

Him: “I just told you. They’re bonkers. Bizarre. They’re like a Star Wars bar room.”

Me: “How did it happen? How did your party manage to come up with this collection?”

Him: “We didn’t. They came up with themselves. There’s no party any more. It’s chaos. Anybody can just decide they want to be the Republican nominee, and make a run for it. Carson? Trump? They’re in the lead and they’re both out of their f*cking minds.”

Me: “That’s not reassuring.”

Him: “It’s a disaster. I’m telling you, if either of them is elected, this country is going to hell. The rest of them aren’t much better. I mean, Carly Fiorina? Really? Rubio? Please. Ted Cruz? Oh my god. And the people we thought had it sewn up, who are halfway sane – Bush and Christie – they’re sounding almost as batty as the rest.”

Me: “Who’s to blame for this mess?”

Him: “Roger Ailes, David and Charles Koch, Rupert Murdoch, Rush Limbaugh. I could go on. They’ve poisoned the American mind and destroyed the Republican Party.

Me: "Nice talking with you.”

Him: “Sleep well.”

posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:49 PM on November 9, 2015 [20 favorites]

“I just told you. They’re bonkers. Bizarre. They’re like a Star Wars bar room.”

So which one's Hammerhead?
posted by dirigibleman at 9:02 PM on November 9, 2015

> Him: “Roger Ailes, David and Charles Koch, Rupert Murdoch, Rush Limbaugh. I could go on. T

Newt fucking Gingrich and Grover goddamn Norquist.
posted by rtha at 9:10 PM on November 9, 2015 [14 favorites]

Grover goddamn Norquist.

Treasonous fucker.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:02 AM on November 10, 2015 [9 favorites]

Someone told me over a month ago that Ben Carson said the earth is flat. I laughed that off. Later, as I heard more crazy beliefs attributed to him, I googled to see if he ever did say that. It doesn't look like he did.

We shouldn't be in a situation where I have to fact check such a completely ridiculous claim about a front-running candidate with a 50/50 chance that it's true.
posted by double block and bleed at 9:35 AM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]

Holy cow. The Yale fake test story just keeps on giving. From Buzzfeed, "Yale Classmate: We Did The Prank Test That Ben Carson’s Talking About". The tl;dr of it appears to be that, 1) a "we burned all the test and now you have to rewrite a much harder test" hoax actually was perpetrated, 2) except not by the professor but by the local satire paper, 3) and Ben Carson likely was a victim of this prank. But, at the same time, it doesn't seem like Carson has (even to this day) understood what really happened that day?

Anyways, I guess I now need to re-evaluate my thoughts on what the pyramids were used for?
posted by mhum at 10:30 AM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]

So there's another reason not to concentrate on picking apart his childhood memories, because it can backfire. Now the right is going to crow about how the liberal media was wrong and Carson was right all along.
posted by octothorpe at 10:44 AM on November 10, 2015

I don't really see how it backfired? This is the standard media practice of vetting a candidate's words and deeds, and since Carson's deeds have mostly involved scalpels and sutures, it's falling heavily on his many words. It turns out some of those words are terribly stupid! In this case, it also turns out that he's gullable, and when he can't remember the details of something, embellishes. That's useful information that voters have that they didn't before.

Status: Resolved, Works For Me.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:49 AM on November 10, 2015 [2 favorites]

Did he get ten bucks for falling for a prank?
posted by Artw at 10:51 AM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]

And Most Honest Student designation?
posted by futz at 11:05 AM on November 10, 2015

I'm not really seeing this as not a lie, given the information.
posted by Artw at 11:08 AM on November 10, 2015 [2 favorites]

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant by my bizarre-o world comment above. The hoax did happen, but not anywhere close to the way Carson described and definitely in a way that makes Carson look like an idiot rather than "honest," and it still proves that Carson was lying. But Carson is using the idea that "a hoax did occur" to somehow mean that his story is true. But his story is still not true.
posted by jaguar at 12:00 PM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]

I disagree with its concluding line, but this WaPo opinion blog piece explains all the embellishments we've seen from Carson:

The crux of this tale is that Carson, having derived strength from God, did not abandon his efforts to complete the re-examination, as others did. ... [T]his underlying aspect of the story could be true, even as the other trappings of the tale aren’t. (I’m not defending the embellishments; I’m merely trying to explain them.) Maybe there was some kind of hoax, and maybe it created a moment of real anguish and self-doubt for Carson, and maybe he did show up to take a fake re-exam, even if there were only several other students present and even if no teacher ever praised him as “honest” or gave him any money.

The spiritual triumph over a moment of adversity is what Carson remembers about himself. The details don’t really matter.

In a sense, I can understand Carson's frustration with the scrutiny. My guess is that he authored the books not intending for them to be accurate accounts but inspirational tales, and took some liberties parable-izing them (possibly even to himself), never expecting his fables to be fact-checked.

As President, however [and as a doctor, which was the point I was trying to make upthread], details DO matter. He needs to perceive things accurately and assess situations realistically, without indulging in embellishments that might be tolerable from a motivational speaker. The trouble is that, with no public record, his embellished writings are all we have to go on, and nobody -- perhaps not even Carson himself -- knows where those embellishments end.
posted by Westringia F. at 12:36 PM on November 10, 2015 [5 favorites]

Where there's passive voice, there's smoke.
posted by rhizome at 12:36 PM on November 10, 2015

As President, however [and as a doctor, which was the point I was trying to make upthread], details DO matter.

Maybe he's just taking a vacation from the overwhelmingly fact-based world of medicine by indulging in every possible imprecision while away from it.
posted by rhizome at 12:38 PM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]

And where there's smoke, fires have been observed.
posted by Wolfdog at 12:51 PM on November 10, 2015 [3 favorites]

Huh. Did not expect Trump to be first to jump for the cups bullshit. Carson better watch his lead.
posted by Artw at 3:35 PM on November 10, 2015

"When Donald Trump is president, I'll make everybody Christian. Problem solved. I'm a problem solver. Merry Christmas, America. I got you all a little something called Trump Nuts for Christmas. You're welcome."
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:43 PM on November 10, 2015 [2 favorites]

Is there a thread for tonight's debate?
posted by futz at 3:52 PM on November 10, 2015

"I'm building a wall around Christmas, and I'm making it out of Starbucks cups and Megyn Kelly."
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:54 PM on November 10, 2015 [4 favorites]

Who is paying for that wall? Baby Jesus?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:00 PM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]

The future. The future always pays. Because the future is a sucker.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:15 PM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]

But, at the same time, it doesn't seem like Carson has (even to this day) understood what really happened that day?

This is so sad.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:34 PM on November 10, 2015 [2 favorites]

Is there a thread for tonight's debate?

Some of us are using this one.
posted by homunculus at 7:29 PM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]

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