The “Other Side” Is Not Dumb
January 11, 2016 12:58 PM Subscribe
"[R]efusing to truly understand those who disagree with you is intellectual laziness and worse, is usually worse than what you’re accusing the Other Side of doing." "There’s a fun game I like to play in a group of trusted friends called 'Controversial Opinion.' The rules are simple: Don’t talk about what was shared during Controversial Opinion afterward and you aren’t allowed to 'argue”'— only to ask questions about why that person feels that way. Opinions can rage from 'I think James Bond movies are overrated' to 'I think Donald Trump would make a excellent president.'
via @rhetsee
via @rhetsee
This post was deleted for the following reason: I'm kinda eh on whether this is great post material to begin with, but I think framing it with a pullquote about an illustrative device in the piece is gonna mean a lot of arguing about that device and the merits of it even if that's not what the piece is mostly about, which just seems like a recipe for not-great weirdness. -- cortex
only to ask questions about why that person feels that way
Why do you feel this way, Sean?
posted by octobersurprise at 1:04 PM on January 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Why do you feel this way, Sean?
posted by octobersurprise at 1:04 PM on January 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Seriously, what's the point in arguing with trying to deal with a political party that simply refuses to work with you and will often disagree with you even if you're using their policies.
The other side isn't stupid, they're a flat out danger, interested only in their own power and things being down their way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:06 PM on January 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
The other side isn't stupid, they're a flat out danger, interested only in their own power and things being down their way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:06 PM on January 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
But....sometimes the "other side" IS dumb.
posted by newfers at 1:06 PM on January 11, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by newfers at 1:06 PM on January 11, 2016 [4 favorites]
There’s a fun game I like to play in a group of trusted friends called 'Controversial Opinion.'
Why do I think that the first time I try this game in a majority white group, the "controversial opinion" will be something like people like me are all monkeys or people like me should all go back to our own countries?
Oh wait, I'm not allowed to argue, I see how this game works.
Anyway, I have a "fun game" too. It's called "guess the probability the article was written by a cis white dude from the pull-quote alone."
posted by Conspire at 1:10 PM on January 11, 2016 [15 favorites]
Why do I think that the first time I try this game in a majority white group, the "controversial opinion" will be something like people like me are all monkeys or people like me should all go back to our own countries?
Oh wait, I'm not allowed to argue, I see how this game works.
Anyway, I have a "fun game" too. It's called "guess the probability the article was written by a cis white dude from the pull-quote alone."
posted by Conspire at 1:10 PM on January 11, 2016 [15 favorites]
"What if we actually talked to people instead of calling them dumb? How could we go about doing that?"
"But they're dumb! We don't want to!"
*sigh*
posted by Etrigan at 1:11 PM on January 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
"But they're dumb! We don't want to!"
*sigh*
posted by Etrigan at 1:11 PM on January 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
From the link in the post:
In psychology, the idea that everyone is like us is called the “false-consensus bias.” This bias often manifests itself when we see TV ratings (“Who the hell are all these people that watch NCIS?”) or in politics (“Everyone I know is for stricter gun control! Who are these backwards rubes that disagree?!”) or polls (“Who are these people voting for Ben Carson?”).
My goodness, to whom could this whole jeremiad possibly be addressed? If only there were context clues!
posted by sobell at 1:11 PM on January 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
In psychology, the idea that everyone is like us is called the “false-consensus bias.” This bias often manifests itself when we see TV ratings (“Who the hell are all these people that watch NCIS?”) or in politics (“Everyone I know is for stricter gun control! Who are these backwards rubes that disagree?!”) or polls (“Who are these people voting for Ben Carson?”).
My goodness, to whom could this whole jeremiad possibly be addressed? If only there were context clues!
posted by sobell at 1:11 PM on January 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
And hey, NCIS is pretty good 'background noise tv that you only occasionally have to actually watch'.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:12 PM on January 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:12 PM on January 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
My preferred game is find the person on the other side who's using reasoning instead of prejudice. There's a further refinement of it which is criticise the people on your side who are using prejudice instead of reasoning.
And if you want to go really deep, there's always the great fun game of "atomise the side you're on", where you split the vague bundle of prejudices that you use as heuristics up into their smallest possible pieces, and then take a look and see which of them are right and which wrong.
I'm going to say that a lot of what I see from the "other side" (being in the UK, this is the current Tory government) really does seem to be dimwitted and hubristic. And I'm exhausted with trying to work out what the justifiable reason for the way that these people act is. I've never found it.
posted by ambrosen at 1:13 PM on January 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
And if you want to go really deep, there's always the great fun game of "atomise the side you're on", where you split the vague bundle of prejudices that you use as heuristics up into their smallest possible pieces, and then take a look and see which of them are right and which wrong.
I'm going to say that a lot of what I see from the "other side" (being in the UK, this is the current Tory government) really does seem to be dimwitted and hubristic. And I'm exhausted with trying to work out what the justifiable reason for the way that these people act is. I've never found it.
posted by ambrosen at 1:13 PM on January 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's having an open mind, and then there's giving people a license to waste your time in the name of "balance" when they are obvious jackasses, and then there's giving a platform to abusive behavior and misinformation.
posted by Artw at 1:13 PM on January 11, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:13 PM on January 11, 2016 [8 favorites]
I definitely think the other side have their valid reasons to feel the way they feel, otherwise they would be insane.
I also think their reasons are valid in the context of their own prejudices, mistaken beliefs and false assumptions. Which is to say, their beliefs are justifiable in the context of their own ignorance, but that does not mean they are correct.
Somehow their beliefs are always about excluding, discriminating, disenfranchising and in general hurting groups that are not their own (foreigners, women, black people, the poor).
The left has its own issues, but we are not the ones who need to work on empathy, I think.
posted by Tarumba at 1:14 PM on January 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
I also think their reasons are valid in the context of their own prejudices, mistaken beliefs and false assumptions. Which is to say, their beliefs are justifiable in the context of their own ignorance, but that does not mean they are correct.
Somehow their beliefs are always about excluding, discriminating, disenfranchising and in general hurting groups that are not their own (foreigners, women, black people, the poor).
The left has its own issues, but we are not the ones who need to work on empathy, I think.
posted by Tarumba at 1:14 PM on January 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
Ahhh, the privilege inherent in being able to just dispassionately listen to people airing dangerous and hateful opinions! So refreshing. So novel.
posted by lydhre at 1:14 PM on January 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 1:14 PM on January 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
Anyway, I have a "fun game" too. It's called "guess the probability the article was written by a cis white dude from the pull-quote alone."
Yeah, it's not that I support "intellectual laziness" or anything, but the Internet is not short of clean-cut young white men who are ready to set their crazy left-liberal pals straight with their public requests that we all calm down and approach things clearly and theoretically, just like they do. (Both sides do it? I am frightened and threatened by this new idea, I am hysterical sir, please stop)
posted by Countess Elena at 1:15 PM on January 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yeah, it's not that I support "intellectual laziness" or anything, but the Internet is not short of clean-cut young white men who are ready to set their crazy left-liberal pals straight with their public requests that we all calm down and approach things clearly and theoretically, just like they do. (Both sides do it? I am frightened and threatened by this new idea, I am hysterical sir, please stop)
posted by Countess Elena at 1:15 PM on January 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
"We just need to meet Brietbart trolls in the middle everbody! Split the difference and say they're 50 percent right about whaqtever insane thing they are promoting!"
posted by Artw at 1:15 PM on January 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:15 PM on January 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
I tried to read it, but I'm really tired of feeling obligated to listen to people who are entitled to be able to assume whatever "side" of a subject they want with the idea that they can "just see what it's like", telling me how virtuous of an entitlement that is to have afforded to them and how dumb I am for not having that same privilege.
posted by Annika Cicada at 1:15 PM on January 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 1:15 PM on January 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
« Older Ashima Shiraishi, Rock-Climbing Wonder | UBI in NYT Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
No, it signals that we're tried talking and reasoning with the other side, they insist on being complete buttholes, so RiRi and I have decided that being a smug asshole is so much more fun.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:02 PM on January 11, 2016 [9 favorites]