Crossover Comic, with Counseling
May 12, 2016 8:51 AM Subscribe
Comics artist Panic Volkushka imagines a present day scene [SLTumblr] between those Fox TV sons, Chris Griffin, Bobby Hill, and Bart Simpson (cw: discussion of abuse).
I thought that it was Milhouse Van Houten that was noted as having "flamboyantly homosexual tendencies" by the esteemed Dr. J. Loren Pryor. I guess I was wrong!
Maybe going to the gay steel mill helped Bart come to terms with his sexuality. Then again, with the entire steel industry, aerospace, the railroads and Broadway all gay (yeah, I found Broadway being gay very hard to believe) Bart had plenty of positive role models.
Keep reaching for that rainbow, Bart and Chris! You're going to make it!
posted by Roentgen at 9:07 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe going to the gay steel mill helped Bart come to terms with his sexuality. Then again, with the entire steel industry, aerospace, the railroads and Broadway all gay (yeah, I found Broadway being gay very hard to believe) Bart had plenty of positive role models.
Keep reaching for that rainbow, Bart and Chris! You're going to make it!
posted by Roentgen at 9:07 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
That is really nice. Thanks for posting.
posted by sheldman at 9:18 AM on May 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by sheldman at 9:18 AM on May 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
That was surprisingly affecting. Family Guy flipped over from edgy to gross a million years ago, but I never considered the Simpsons as being about an alcoholic abusive father before.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:21 AM on May 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:21 AM on May 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Never been a big Family Guy fan (too many fart jokes and similar sophomoric stuff for me) but have watched a lot of King of the Hill and Simpsons over the years. That was pretty depressing, but I am glad Bobby turned out OK.
posted by TedW at 9:29 AM on May 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by TedW at 9:29 AM on May 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Well, I was happy.
posted by tommasz at 9:33 AM on May 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 9:33 AM on May 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's weird that the creator of Beavis and Butthead, Office Space and Idiocracy also created what I think you could call the "nicest" family sitcom cartoon of that era.
Meanwhile in the next town over....
posted by Fizz at 9:39 AM on May 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Meanwhile in the next town over....
posted by Fizz at 9:39 AM on May 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
On a serious note, this was interesting because it points out how well-integrated violence is into everyday imagery, to the point where we often don't even really see it as depictions of violence.
I thought the comic was very sweet, actually.
posted by Frowner at 9:56 AM on May 12, 2016 [21 favorites]
I thought the comic was very sweet, actually.
posted by Frowner at 9:56 AM on May 12, 2016 [21 favorites]
bonus if you read all that in their characters' voices (but a little more grown up).
Now I wanna see one between Hayley Smith, Tina Belcher, and Summer Smith
posted by numaner at 9:56 AM on May 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Now I wanna see one between Hayley Smith, Tina Belcher, and Summer Smith
posted by numaner at 9:56 AM on May 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
"Dumb Dads" were the standard ever since the ratings of "Father Knows Best" dropped. It seemed as if the only halfway-competent fathers on TV were the widowers (from "My Three Sons" to "Full House"). The only exceptions were Dan Conner on "Roseanne" and Hank Hill on "King of the Hill". And Hank was going against the tide even more because animated sitcoms allowed for "cartoon violence" that live-action shows couldn't. So it's really no surprise that Bobby Hill would grow up happy, healthy and going into a profession dedicated to trying to make other people happy and healthy.
Related: you know who Bobby Hill kinda resembles? "The Star Wars Kid".
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:10 AM on May 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Related: you know who Bobby Hill kinda resembles? "The Star Wars Kid".
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:10 AM on May 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
So it's really no surprise that Bobby Hill would grow up happy, healthy and going into a profession dedicated to trying to make other people happy and healthy.
I still imagine Hank kind of sighing whenever he's reminded that his kid is a therapist, though. I mean, he's proud of him for helping people, and he's happy that Bobby's happy, but he still has a Strickland Propane shirt with "ROBERT" on the breast in a closet somewhere.
posted by Etrigan at 10:14 AM on May 12, 2016 [60 favorites]
I still imagine Hank kind of sighing whenever he's reminded that his kid is a therapist, though. I mean, he's proud of him for helping people, and he's happy that Bobby's happy, but he still has a Strickland Propane shirt with "ROBERT" on the breast in a closet somewhere.
posted by Etrigan at 10:14 AM on May 12, 2016 [60 favorites]
That was quite nice. Thanks for sharing, coolname.
I grew up without a dad, and I didn't "meet" Hank Hill until I was in my 20s, but, man, I wanted him to be my dad pretty much right away. This rings true to how I think Bobby turned out thanks to Hank.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:20 AM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I grew up without a dad, and I didn't "meet" Hank Hill until I was in my 20s, but, man, I wanted him to be my dad pretty much right away. This rings true to how I think Bobby turned out thanks to Hank.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:20 AM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
That boy's alright.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 10:53 AM on May 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 10:53 AM on May 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
Hank was mostly a pretty great dad, and he definitely made an effort to accommodate a son that he didn't entirely understand.
Having said that, my cartoon dad is Greg Universe.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 12:11 PM on May 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Having said that, my cartoon dad is Greg Universe.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 12:11 PM on May 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
My cartoon dad was Zandor from The Herculoids, but Hank Hill was pretty goll danged awesome.
posted by museum of fire ants at 12:47 PM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by museum of fire ants at 12:47 PM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
This was really powerful. I think the Simpsons actually tried to talk about this in one of its future episodes where Bart is a struggling divorced dad and Homer is a really great, present, involved grandpa to Bart's sons-- and a big part of Homer's being able to do that is that he's sober.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 12:51 PM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 12:51 PM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Related: you know who Bobby Hill kinda resembles? "The Star Wars Kid".
I'd always thought Matt Cain, but sure.
posted by letourneau at 1:43 PM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'd always thought Matt Cain, but sure.
posted by letourneau at 1:43 PM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jesus am I pregnant why did that make me cry like an idiot?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:45 PM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:45 PM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
This was really eye-opening for me. It has been MANY years since I last watched a Simpsons or Family Guy episode. I never really like Family Guy, but didn't think hard enough about why. Huh.
posted by jillithd at 2:44 PM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jillithd at 2:44 PM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
And now I'm right back to all the arguments I had with people when they were aghast about Kermit and Piggy breaking up, and I was like, "Good! She's horribly abusive!"
"But she's a feminist icon!" they said. Like that's any reason to stay in a relationship where you're treated like that?
Bart's behavior, btw, lines up pretty much exactly with my experience as a teacher. It's so painfully common to call home about a misbehaving kid and then discover that no, the problem isn't the kid at all. It's one or both of the parents.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:20 PM on May 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
"But she's a feminist icon!" they said. Like that's any reason to stay in a relationship where you're treated like that?
Bart's behavior, btw, lines up pretty much exactly with my experience as a teacher. It's so painfully common to call home about a misbehaving kid and then discover that no, the problem isn't the kid at all. It's one or both of the parents.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:20 PM on May 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Ow holy shit that hurt.
posted by geek anachronism at 5:01 PM on May 12, 2016
posted by geek anachronism at 5:01 PM on May 12, 2016
"Dumb Dads" were the standard ever since the ratings of "Father Knows Best" dropped. It seemed as if the only halfway-competent fathers on TV were the widowers (from "My Three Sons" to "Full House"). The only exceptions were Dan Conner on "Roseanne" and Hank Hill on "King of the Hill".
Ironically, the most prominent exception you're forgetting is Bill Cobsy on The Cosby Show.
posted by layceepee at 5:56 PM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ironically, the most prominent exception you're forgetting is Bill Cobsy on The Cosby Show.
posted by layceepee at 5:56 PM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ironically, the most prominent exception you're forgetting is Bill Cobsy on The Cosby Show.
I was also going to say "And Mike Brady" but then I remembered that an architect designing a home for his new blended family of six children and only including one other upstairs bathroom aside from the master bath was a pretty boneheaded thing to do.
posted by radwolf76 at 11:02 PM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was also going to say "And Mike Brady" but then I remembered that an architect designing a home for his new blended family of six children and only including one other upstairs bathroom aside from the master bath was a pretty boneheaded thing to do.
posted by radwolf76 at 11:02 PM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Similar vibe to Max Landis' Mickey Mouse comic Boy's Night
posted by mikelieman at 12:22 AM on May 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 12:22 AM on May 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think the interesting thing about Hank Hill is that he manages to be a pretty good father to Bobby, and a reasonable father figure to Luanne, despite having one of the most hateful, repellent characters to ever have darkened the screen for a father himself.
I really like "King of the Hill" and have spent far too much time thinking about it over the years.
posted by Ipsifendus at 6:14 AM on May 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
I really like "King of the Hill" and have spent far too much time thinking about it over the years.
posted by Ipsifendus at 6:14 AM on May 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
And now I'm right back to all the arguments I had with people when they were aghast about Kermit and Piggy breaking up, and I was like, "Good! She's horribly abusive!"
To digress for a moment about Miss Piggy: Not only is she pretty creepy, but Kermit is also horrible. If you watch the early Muppets (as I have been!) there's all this just really mean gaslighting, making fun of her, encouraging others to make fun of her, taking pleasure in her misfortunes, etc. It's really ugly to watch and indeed spoils any episode in which Piggy/Kermit stuff is central. Given that there's been a "grand romance" narrative about Piggy and Kermit since I was little in the eighties, it's depressing to reflect that their relationship was ever seen as anything other than awful. Also, early Muppets is really, actively misogynist - way out of line with even eighties misogynist staples like Labyrinth. I actually would never recommend it for kids and am kind of surprised that my parents let us watch the show. (Don't know about the later stuff.)
posted by Frowner at 6:58 AM on May 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
eighties misogynist staples like Labyrinth
*spits coffee*
.... YOU DID NOT JUST
posted by webmutant at 7:17 AM on May 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
*spits coffee*
.... YOU DID NOT JUST
posted by webmutant at 7:17 AM on May 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Okay this is a digression and I recognize that, but:
1. Labyrinth is all about a teenage girl learning to dial down her creative side to take care of a baby. A baby boy, no less. How would this film be different if it were about caring for a sister? Why would this never be the plot arc?
2. There are almost no other women characters in the film, except the stepmother, the bad birth mother, a few sexy-goblin dancing ladies and the Bad Sad Goblin Woman Burdened By Materialism at the end. Sarah receives no assistance or advice from women, except Bad Sad Goblin.
3. She gets kind of sexually harassed by several of the goblin characters (other than David Bowie) IIRC.
4. It is strongly implied in the film that her birth mother is slutty and selfish, in addition to being an actress (? is that her career - something artsy and dressy-uppy anyway). There's that bit right at the end where a wiser, more moral, less "selfish" Sarah puts away the picture of her birth mother that is on her dresser. It is filmed in such a way that it is clear that Sarah is rejecting the values that her "bad" birth mother had, in favor of the "wiser" values she has learned on her adventure.
5. The choice in the film is between "mature" "unselfish" womanhood which centers family and minimizes personal goals and a "selfish" sexual womanhood of submission to male desire. The choice is between two forms of patriarchy. The one that is less work is the one that is figured as immature and immoral, that's all.
I'm sorry. I loved that movie as much as anyone else as a kid and it certainly has its moments. But it illustrates the state of cinematic affairs in the eighties - that any film with a female lead was experienced as liberatory simply because female leads were so rare, even when the actual message of the film was anti-feminist.
Women are always told that it is selfish not to want to care for children and not to want to be obedient; women are always told that it is selfish to put artistic desires ahead of family duties. Men are almost never told this; men are very rarely hectored about being selfish at all.
posted by Frowner at 7:43 AM on May 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
1. Labyrinth is all about a teenage girl learning to dial down her creative side to take care of a baby. A baby boy, no less. How would this film be different if it were about caring for a sister? Why would this never be the plot arc?
2. There are almost no other women characters in the film, except the stepmother, the bad birth mother, a few sexy-goblin dancing ladies and the Bad Sad Goblin Woman Burdened By Materialism at the end. Sarah receives no assistance or advice from women, except Bad Sad Goblin.
3. She gets kind of sexually harassed by several of the goblin characters (other than David Bowie) IIRC.
4. It is strongly implied in the film that her birth mother is slutty and selfish, in addition to being an actress (? is that her career - something artsy and dressy-uppy anyway). There's that bit right at the end where a wiser, more moral, less "selfish" Sarah puts away the picture of her birth mother that is on her dresser. It is filmed in such a way that it is clear that Sarah is rejecting the values that her "bad" birth mother had, in favor of the "wiser" values she has learned on her adventure.
5. The choice in the film is between "mature" "unselfish" womanhood which centers family and minimizes personal goals and a "selfish" sexual womanhood of submission to male desire. The choice is between two forms of patriarchy. The one that is less work is the one that is figured as immature and immoral, that's all.
I'm sorry. I loved that movie as much as anyone else as a kid and it certainly has its moments. But it illustrates the state of cinematic affairs in the eighties - that any film with a female lead was experienced as liberatory simply because female leads were so rare, even when the actual message of the film was anti-feminist.
Women are always told that it is selfish not to want to care for children and not to want to be obedient; women are always told that it is selfish to put artistic desires ahead of family duties. Men are almost never told this; men are very rarely hectored about being selfish at all.
posted by Frowner at 7:43 AM on May 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Also she is horribly punished for even daring to express anger. All she does is say, in understandably frustrating circumstances, that she wishes the goblins would take the baby away, when as far as she knows goblins don't even exist. (How could anyone but a bad, selfish woman wish harm on an innocent baby?) And then blammo - express anger and the goblins show up.
Also, the film totally implies that missing her mother and wanting to be like her mother are bad, wrong feelings, which is I think pretty fucking heartless.
posted by Frowner at 7:46 AM on May 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, the film totally implies that missing her mother and wanting to be like her mother are bad, wrong feelings, which is I think pretty fucking heartless.
posted by Frowner at 7:46 AM on May 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Women are always told that it is selfish not to want to care for children and not to want to be obedient; women are always told that it is selfish to put artistic desires ahead of family duties. Men are almost never told this; men are very rarely hectored about being selfish at all.
Well, note the contrast with Hank Hill: he also puts aside any desire for self-expression in order to do his duty. He's not hectored into it because he doesn't need to be.
posted by ocschwar at 10:32 AM on May 13, 2016
Hmm, could have used a call out that Bobby is living in Wichita Falls.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:28 AM on May 13, 2016
posted by Chrysostom at 11:28 AM on May 13, 2016
The thing about Miss Piggy and Kermit is that, originally, their characters were not obviously intended to go together. Any sort of "grand romance" is a retcon originating with the first and third movies. Piggy had a massive crush on Kermit (from her first appearance), but would drop it in an instant in favor of a handsome guest star, and Kermit viewed her as a grabby prima donna -- which she was, let's be honest. I don't remember any outright gaslighting on Kermit's part, though, and I have also seen the early Muppet Shows, although it's been a few years now. What were you thinking of?
One thing is, Kermit was pretty close to being a perfect character up to this point, both from the Muppet Show and before, the sort that was capable of no wrong, and they probably put in his mocking of Piggy as a way to break that a bit, of making him less of an authorial self-insert. And that pretty much demanded that Piggy have her persistence, and karate, as a way to get back at Kermit. Not a healthy relationship, no, but not being held up as a model either.
Neither were particularly great for the other during the Muppet Show, and the show recognized that by not having them get together at all during it. Then the Muppet Movie came along, and with it Hollywood's demand that characters have some kind of romantic arc. There are only three such arcs among the Muppet cast: Wayne and Wanda are one-note and obscure, and Gonzo and Camilla, well, are Gonzo and Camilla.
Note that, in the Muppet Movie, the characters aren't quite so cruel to each other, and also in the opening Kermit himself admits that this isn't intended to be a canonical history of the Muppet Show Muppets, but that "it's sort of approximately how it happened." The characters developed over time, but not always in ways that can be considered to be the result of past history. The Kermit and Piggy of the movies can be viewed as subtly different from those of the show -- if one can see and solid sort of continuous canon regarding the characters at all.
posted by JHarris at 8:46 PM on May 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
One thing is, Kermit was pretty close to being a perfect character up to this point, both from the Muppet Show and before, the sort that was capable of no wrong, and they probably put in his mocking of Piggy as a way to break that a bit, of making him less of an authorial self-insert. And that pretty much demanded that Piggy have her persistence, and karate, as a way to get back at Kermit. Not a healthy relationship, no, but not being held up as a model either.
Neither were particularly great for the other during the Muppet Show, and the show recognized that by not having them get together at all during it. Then the Muppet Movie came along, and with it Hollywood's demand that characters have some kind of romantic arc. There are only three such arcs among the Muppet cast: Wayne and Wanda are one-note and obscure, and Gonzo and Camilla, well, are Gonzo and Camilla.
Note that, in the Muppet Movie, the characters aren't quite so cruel to each other, and also in the opening Kermit himself admits that this isn't intended to be a canonical history of the Muppet Show Muppets, but that "it's sort of approximately how it happened." The characters developed over time, but not always in ways that can be considered to be the result of past history. The Kermit and Piggy of the movies can be viewed as subtly different from those of the show -- if one can see and solid sort of continuous canon regarding the characters at all.
posted by JHarris at 8:46 PM on May 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
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It's weird that the creator of Beavis and Butthead, Office Space and Idiocracy also created what I think you could call the "nicest" family sitcom cartoon of that era.
posted by selfnoise at 9:01 AM on May 12, 2016 [21 favorites]