ioerror may have errored
June 7, 2016 5:12 PM Subscribe
On June 4th it was announced that Jacob Appelbaum(previously) has stepped down from his role as an employee of the TOR foundation while they investigate charges of inappropriate behavior. The TOR project (previously) anonymizes Internet traffic and is seen as a key tool for dissidents and others who wish to avoid surveillance while using the Internet. Appelbaum has been a key contributor and passionate public advocate for TOR. It is not clear what impact his departure will have on the future of the project.
Also to learn about this direct on Twitter: Meredith L. Patterson @maradydd
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:39 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:39 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Given how much rancor I've seen wikileaks direct at "feminists", it's somewhat heartening to see that whoever's in charge of social media over there hasn't gone too far off the deep end.
At least not yet anyway....
posted by phack at 5:42 PM on June 7, 2016
At least not yet anyway....
posted by phack at 5:42 PM on June 7, 2016
Just to be clear, the allegations include rape. "Assault", "misconduct", "sex abuse" are all correct, but let's not beat around the bush.
It is not clear what impact his departure will have on the future of the project.
His departure can only help the project, if he's half as toxic a personality and actual danger as it seems he is.
posted by BungaDunga at 5:42 PM on June 7, 2016 [20 favorites]
It is not clear what impact his departure will have on the future of the project.
His departure can only help the project, if he's half as toxic a personality and actual danger as it seems he is.
posted by BungaDunga at 5:42 PM on June 7, 2016 [20 favorites]
Jake has effectively no commits to Tor. An advocate, sure, but not a developer.
posted by effugas at 5:48 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by effugas at 5:48 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
from what I gather, the "behavior" has been fairly well known for years. which makes Appelbaum a Sandusky to someone's Paterno...
posted by ennui.bz at 5:48 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ennui.bz at 5:48 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hard data is coming out at Gizmodo and The Daily Dot. The Cult of the Dead Cow, a well known hacker group, has also removed him.
posted by effugas at 5:52 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by effugas at 5:52 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Unlike wikileaks which is all about Assange, TOR has a wider set of personalities and actors. It also seems to reflect that the work being done to reduce harassment of women in tech is starting to bear fruit. I'm glad the tribe isn't just descending in misogyny and attacking the accusers.
posted by humanfont at 5:59 PM on June 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 5:59 PM on June 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
From the Gizmodo link:
posted by rtha at 6:18 PM on June 7, 2016 [43 favorites]
In interviews with Gizmodo, Emerson Tan and Meridith Patterson, computer security experts involved in the Tor community, and Andrea Shepard, a developer at the Tor Project, described some of Appelbaum’s inappropriate behavior they say they witnessed—and speculated on how he got away with deeply troubling behavior for so long.and
One incident, witnessed by Shepard, Tan, and Patterson, occurred in December at the Chaos Communication Conference in Hamburg, Germany.It's mysterious, isn't it, how he got away with such troubling behavior for so long, with so many people apparently witnessing it. So mysterious.
“At about 2 or 3 a.m. in the morning I happen to be talking to [Patterson], [Shepard] and Jacob Appelbaum and a group of other people who have come out of the congress hall into the lobby of the Raddison Blu hotel in Hamburg,” Tan told Gizmodo. “Jake has his hands all over this girl, and she is very obviously not very happy. You know, she’s looking for her bag, they’re having a conversation and she’s looking for her bag she can’t find her bag and she appears to be really quite distressed and Appelbaum forcibly attempts to try and kiss her, grabs her arm and her backside and makes a move for her breasts.”
Shepard and Patterson confirmed the account to Gizmodo, saying they watched it happen.
“And the other males who we were with were basically just kind of joking amongst themselves and don’t really seem to see anything wrong with it, which is really quite distressing,” Tan said. “So I watched this for about two to three minutes and then I decide to go and do something and just mount a very very subtle intervention. Which is, I go over, I shake Jake’s hand I tell him what a great job he’s doing with the Tor project and the rest of it and that gives the girl roughly the 30 seconds she needs to find her bag without being in an undistracted fashion. She left, and I found her hiding out in the hotel bar later, after Jake had left. She was pretty composed but obviously upset.”
“Jacob basically had cornered her and we saw him try to force a kiss and Emerson was like fuck this and interrupted him,” Patterson told Gizmodo.
posted by rtha at 6:18 PM on June 7, 2016 [43 favorites]
Oh lord, another one. It's time someone set that staircase on fire.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:23 PM on June 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:23 PM on June 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
Jake has effectively no commits to Tor. An advocate, sure, but not a developer.
In tech sexism controversies, isn't that the kind of role that usually gets you dismissed as a nontechnical "evangelist" who doesn't have the intellectual chops to contribute anything important? I mean, if you are a woman.
posted by Ralston McTodd at 6:26 PM on June 7, 2016 [52 favorites]
In tech sexism controversies, isn't that the kind of role that usually gets you dismissed as a nontechnical "evangelist" who doesn't have the intellectual chops to contribute anything important? I mean, if you are a woman.
posted by Ralston McTodd at 6:26 PM on June 7, 2016 [52 favorites]
Yup.
posted by gusandrews at 6:41 PM on June 7, 2016
posted by gusandrews at 6:41 PM on June 7, 2016
“Jacob basically had cornered her and we saw him try to force a kiss and Emerson was like fuck this and interrupted him,” Patterson told Gizmodo.
Good for him, but that was only half the fucking job. There needed to be a conversation which which Appelbaum was told to his face that his behaviour was abhorrent, and he needed to be reported to Tor and to the conference orgs.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:44 PM on June 7, 2016 [12 favorites]
Good for him, but that was only half the fucking job. There needed to be a conversation which which Appelbaum was told to his face that his behaviour was abhorrent, and he needed to be reported to Tor and to the conference orgs.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:44 PM on June 7, 2016 [12 favorites]
Further context, TOR is also an apparatus for state espionnage, intelligence, and covert action agencies to mask agents' internet presence from other states and the public.
posted by anthill at 6:46 PM on June 7, 2016
posted by anthill at 6:46 PM on June 7, 2016
Semi-related from the last time around, this comment relates to the no-commits portion of what people are talking about above.
posted by abbazabba at 6:50 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by abbazabba at 6:50 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
He has a few commits to TOR based on the git repo. I wouldn't dismiss him as a non-technical contribitor. His technical contributions do appear to be less than I understood them. This seems to consistent with some of the accusations above, specifically claims that he often took credit and overstated his role using tricks like insisting authors be listed alphabetically.
This news has really bummed me out.
posted by humanfont at 6:50 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
This news has really bummed me out.
posted by humanfont at 6:50 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Pales in comparison to the rape/sexual assaults allegations, but from Nick Farr: What Jake Appelbaum Did to Me
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:51 PM on June 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:51 PM on June 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
Is Nick Farr's commentary relevant here, or is that another case altogether?
oops jinx
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:53 PM on June 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
oops jinx
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:53 PM on June 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
In tech sexism controversies, isn't that the kind of role that usually gets you dismissed as a nontechnical "evangelist" who doesn't have the intellectual chops to contribute anything important? I mean, if you are a woman.
Has the coverage been doing otherwise? I mean, this seems to be the blowback that is happening, since Appelbaum is indeed largely an evangelist. That said, my impression from looking up articles about him back when was that coverage from him has liked playing up his skills as well as his activism. It’s a good look to have Tor’s chief PR Person be straight out of Hackers.
That said, does “evangelist” really connote a lack of chops? When I hear the phrase I always think of Vint Cerf, Google’s Chief Internet Evangelist. I don’t imagine Cerf knows his way around the code base, but I’d be a fool to characterize him as non-technical.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:54 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Has the coverage been doing otherwise? I mean, this seems to be the blowback that is happening, since Appelbaum is indeed largely an evangelist. That said, my impression from looking up articles about him back when was that coverage from him has liked playing up his skills as well as his activism. It’s a good look to have Tor’s chief PR Person be straight out of Hackers.
That said, does “evangelist” really connote a lack of chops? When I hear the phrase I always think of Vint Cerf, Google’s Chief Internet Evangelist. I don’t imagine Cerf knows his way around the code base, but I’d be a fool to characterize him as non-technical.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:54 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Coincidentally, I'm in the middle of an argument in a tech hacker group on creating a code of conduct, somewhat summarised by "we're all nice people, how dare you suggest sexual assaults could happen here" .
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:57 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:57 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
Fuck man commits or no I definitely had admired this guy (maybe 'cause I never met him).
posted by atoxyl at 7:02 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 7:02 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
I wonder if his story about his apartment in Berlin being searched is actually true.
posted by My Dad at 7:04 PM on June 7, 2016
posted by My Dad at 7:04 PM on June 7, 2016
It strikes me that it's particularly hard to get rid of a toxic individual in an environment where people are obviously sympathetic to the possibility of a frame-job.
posted by atoxyl at 7:16 PM on June 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 7:16 PM on June 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
Further context, TOR is also an apparatus for state espionnage, intelligence, and covert action agencies to mask agents' internet presence from other states and the public.
Tor is designed to let all sorts of actors hide themselves on the internet. Plenty of them are bad actors. Take Tor away and state-level malefactors can do what they have always done. Powerful states like the USA have access to the internet backbone; they don't really need tor to be sneaky.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:18 PM on June 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Tor is designed to let all sorts of actors hide themselves on the internet. Plenty of them are bad actors. Take Tor away and state-level malefactors can do what they have always done. Powerful states like the USA have access to the internet backbone; they don't really need tor to be sneaky.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:18 PM on June 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
It is my understanding that various parts of the US government rely on TOR for various work, from human rights advocacy to espionage. They see it as critical and even have funded it. Meanwhile other parts of the US government are at war with TOR and its developers.
posted by humanfont at 7:27 PM on June 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 7:27 PM on June 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
It strikes me that it's particularly hard to get rid of a toxic individual in an environment where people are obviously sympathetic to the possibility of a frame-job.
It makes you wonder if there's a bit of a chicken-and-egg question. Does the persistent threat of frame-ups have a boomerang effect that makes people like Appelbaum more likely to do horrible things, when they realize that they'll be more able to sweep crimes under the rug? Or do people like Appelbaum court controversy to intentionally increase that threat as cover for their actions? It all seems part and parcel of the grandiosity of the pathological mindset.
posted by chimaera at 7:30 PM on June 7, 2016
It makes you wonder if there's a bit of a chicken-and-egg question. Does the persistent threat of frame-ups have a boomerang effect that makes people like Appelbaum more likely to do horrible things, when they realize that they'll be more able to sweep crimes under the rug? Or do people like Appelbaum court controversy to intentionally increase that threat as cover for their actions? It all seems part and parcel of the grandiosity of the pathological mindset.
posted by chimaera at 7:30 PM on June 7, 2016
TOR was developed for CIA spook field work and overwhelmingly funded by the US government. Just fleshing out the OP's description of TOR as a dissident / privacy tool (which is Appelbaum's characterization, FWIW).
posted by anthill at 7:31 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by anthill at 7:31 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
TOR was developed for CIA spook field work and overwhelmingly funded by the US government.
Isn’t Tor still overwhelmingly funded by the US gov’t? Just wanted to check your tenses there.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:34 PM on June 7, 2016
Isn’t Tor still overwhelmingly funded by the US gov’t? Just wanted to check your tenses there.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:34 PM on June 7, 2016
(That said, that article is kind of tinfoil hatty)
posted by Going To Maine at 7:38 PM on June 7, 2016
posted by Going To Maine at 7:38 PM on June 7, 2016
infosec: why did we tolerate this horrible toxic person in our midst for so long we need to do a better job of policing our community going forward
me: what about the misogynistic actual nazi
infosec: haha, what, weev's cool
posted by phooky at 7:40 PM on June 7, 2016 [54 favorites]
me: what about the misogynistic actual nazi
infosec: haha, what, weev's cool
posted by phooky at 7:40 PM on June 7, 2016 [54 favorites]
parts of the US government are at war with TOR
If you actually think about it, the US government should love Tor (and maybe secretly does). Anyone who uses Tor has a strong desire to be secret, and it's only a tiny percentage of Internet traffic, so all the NSA has to do is snoop on that traffic. One way is by setting up a bunch of exit nodes, so they can do traffic analysis. Another is by controlling >50% of the router nodes so it could track traffic end-to-end (which would cost a couple million bucks a year, but not billions or anything). Tor is a neat way to hide yourself from your ISP or whatever but it's worse than useless against a large state actor.
posted by miyabo at 7:54 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
If you actually think about it, the US government should love Tor (and maybe secretly does). Anyone who uses Tor has a strong desire to be secret, and it's only a tiny percentage of Internet traffic, so all the NSA has to do is snoop on that traffic. One way is by setting up a bunch of exit nodes, so they can do traffic analysis. Another is by controlling >50% of the router nodes so it could track traffic end-to-end (which would cost a couple million bucks a year, but not billions or anything). Tor is a neat way to hide yourself from your ISP or whatever but it's worse than useless against a large state actor.
posted by miyabo at 7:54 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
> US government should love Tor...
> the NSA...
and that's the problem. FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA and ONI have different motivations and abilities. The FBI doesn't even agree with the DOJ which it's supposedly beholden to.
posted by morganw at 8:13 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
> the NSA...
and that's the problem. FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA and ONI have different motivations and abilities. The FBI doesn't even agree with the DOJ which it's supposedly beholden to.
posted by morganw at 8:13 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Don't forget the State Department, which has backed Tor as part of democracy-promotion efforts to help people get around censorship, at the same time the FBI was paying people to actively break Tor's security.
posted by zachlipton at 8:20 PM on June 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:20 PM on June 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Describing Appelbaum's behavior as "errored" seems kind of weirdly trivializing and cutesy.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:22 PM on June 7, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:22 PM on June 7, 2016 [9 favorites]
For those who are still saying "well, surely Jacob committed some code," you may want to look into the accusations of plagiarism which have gone on for some time.
There is a story of how he actively harmed Tor's rep with potential funders, by intervening where he shouldn't have, which I hope will eventually also come to light.
This doesn't just add up to rapist. It adds up to rapist sociopath.
posted by gusandrews at 8:31 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
There is a story of how he actively harmed Tor's rep with potential funders, by intervening where he shouldn't have, which I hope will eventually also come to light.
This doesn't just add up to rapist. It adds up to rapist sociopath.
posted by gusandrews at 8:31 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
p.s. infosec in no way uniformly thinks weev is cool
posted by gusandrews at 8:32 PM on June 7, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by gusandrews at 8:32 PM on June 7, 2016 [21 favorites]
OOOooo, I remember seeing the comments many years ago which were deleted. I remember turning to my roommate and saying "Wow, someone doesn't like this guy." Edit: hmmn, I think I took umbrage that my comments were deleted. I can't recall what they were, but I think I was responding to other comments which also got deleted? Anyhow, I've grown up since then.;)
posted by Catblack at 8:35 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Catblack at 8:35 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
That said, does “evangelist” really connote a lack of chops?
Think of it as part of a PR process that's transitioning him from "A well respected part of our group" to "Uh, he's just a guy that kinda hung around us."
posted by happyroach at 8:38 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Think of it as part of a PR process that's transitioning him from "A well respected part of our group" to "Uh, he's just a guy that kinda hung around us."
posted by happyroach at 8:38 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry to see this but glad it's been disclosed. And I appreciate the cDc's stance and communique.
Wondering if ioerror will turn up here to comment. It's been years since his last mefi post, so probably not.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:40 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wondering if ioerror will turn up here to comment. It's been years since his last mefi post, so probably not.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:40 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
What happened: a man in tech sexually assaulted, harrassed and threatened multiple women.
How we're apparently framing it: this could be bad for Tor.
posted by shmegegge at 8:41 PM on June 7, 2016 [24 favorites]
How we're apparently framing it: this could be bad for Tor.
posted by shmegegge at 8:41 PM on June 7, 2016 [24 favorites]
Yasha Levine on Tor is... not very good. Breathless uncovering of things that are in plain sight and of all the things he could have dug up about Appelbaum he accused him of "training Qatari censors" based, as far as I can tell, on a misreading of Appelbaum's RS puff piece.
posted by atoxyl at 8:43 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by atoxyl at 8:43 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was trying to avoid editorializing or being overly sensationalistic in phrasing the original post. I did not wish to come across as cutsey or to be seen as minimizing/trivializing the scope of the accusations.
posted by humanfont at 8:44 PM on June 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 8:44 PM on June 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
Leigh Honeywell writes: "The stories I have read are entirely consistent with my own experiences being sexually involved with Jacob in 2006-2007."
posted by parudox at 9:07 PM on June 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by parudox at 9:07 PM on June 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
I at least have some faith that, at least insofar as the Tor Project's part of this is concerned, that Shari Steele, their Executive Director and former EFF ED for many years, is inclined to do the right thing and will manage this professionally in a way that makes it safe for as many people as possible to be a part of that community.
posted by zachlipton at 9:07 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:07 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 9:13 PM on June 7, 2016
posted by armoir from antproof case at 9:13 PM on June 7, 2016
cDc is some serious heat to bring down on yourself if you're an infosec "personality." You gonna try to claim they're in the bag for anyone? Lots of luck. Good for them in bringing the thunder down when needed, even on one of their own.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:13 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:13 PM on June 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
What is it with self-aggrandizement / braggadocio and people in the infosec community?
whoooooo hack the gibson
posted by thewalrus at 9:26 PM on June 7, 2016
whoooooo hack the gibson
posted by thewalrus at 9:26 PM on June 7, 2016
How we're apparently framing it: this could be bad for the Penn State football team Tor.
posted by ennui.bz at 9:59 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ennui.bz at 9:59 PM on June 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
First Assange, now Appelbaum, if Snowden turns out to be some kind of sex creep I'm throwing my laptop into the ocean and moving to the goddamn moon. I can only lose so many Internet heroes.
posted by zjacreman at 10:34 PM on June 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by zjacreman at 10:34 PM on June 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Is Tor really the kind of thing that could be threatened by the appearance of the Tor developers/organization? It's a decentralized protocol meant to run on consumer hardware. And there's powerful interests on both sides of the law who want it around, regardless of how it looks.
Is this perhaps in terms of convincing ISPs to try to filter/block Tor traffic?
posted by mccarty.tim at 10:39 PM on June 7, 2016
Is this perhaps in terms of convincing ISPs to try to filter/block Tor traffic?
posted by mccarty.tim at 10:39 PM on June 7, 2016
Ouch, that previous 2010 MeFi thread about Appelbaum. You can hear the frustration and resignation that ezpeel is expressing at having her comments deleted yet again at yet another website. And we wonder how sexual predators keep getting away with it. I'm no longer surprised to read any eminent man is a serial harasser/assaulter/rapist, sadly, but at least word is slowly getting out.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:21 PM on June 7, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:21 PM on June 7, 2016 [20 favorites]
I at least have some faith that, at least insofar as the Tor Project's part of this is concerned, that Shari Steele, their Executive Director and former EFF ED for many years, is inclined to do the right thing and will manage this professionally in a way that makes it safe for as many people as possible to be a part of that community.
Her public statement actually admits to there having been rumors for "some time." I'm pretty damn certain that he's going to be persona non grata now - the issue is more that it took a long time for them to do anything.
posted by atoxyl at 11:34 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Her public statement actually admits to there having been rumors for "some time." I'm pretty damn certain that he's going to be persona non grata now - the issue is more that it took a long time for them to do anything.
posted by atoxyl at 11:34 PM on June 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
from what I gather, the "behavior" has been fairly well known for years. which makes Appelbaum a Sandusky to someone's Paterno...
Some kinds of friends in high places, perhaps:
posted by jamjam at 11:43 PM on June 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
Some kinds of friends in high places, perhaps:
Jake has targeted, abused and silenced many close friends of mine, many of whom are researchers you probably know and respect. Whether it’s ripping off research or just harassing someone into submission, somehow we all felt powerless to do anything about it. He’s the perfect bully.[From His thoughts were red thoughts' and JoeZydeco's excellent link]
...
Those that tried to stand up to him were destroyed, one even took his own life after Jake stole his research. But that’s not my story to tell.
...
One of the many things I used to help out with were the Lightning Talks. From the 27c3 onward, I coordinated and emceed these sessions where anyone could speak pretty much about whatever they wanted in 5 minutes or less. The format that I developed over the years is basically what they use today. If you could follow basic directions, I did whatever I could to get you on stage to say what you had to say.
Part of this open policy meant dealing with folks who may not be entirely stable. Often, these folks would end up not following basic directions and they’d fall off the schedule for that reason. Generally, they accepted that and trusted I was not trying to silence them, I was just being fair.
One person following this pattern submitted an LT proposal alleging that Jake was a US Intelligence Operative. I LOLed. After a few rounds of encrypted e-mail pestering and a few texts, they insisted on being put on the schedule. I did so to appease, as was my strategy at the time, with every intention of pulling them off after they inevitably failed to follow directions.
The next day I wake up to an e-mail from Jake, followed by e-mails from very important people in the CCC chastising me for what I had done to Jake’s reputation. Jake demanded all the records I had received from this person. Jake also had the CCC edit the 30c3 wiki database to eliminate any trace of the offending talk.
Because the last thing anyone needs is to be targeted by Jake, I purged everything this person and sent and refused to hand over anything on privacy grounds. I explained what my reasoning was for doing what I did, was chastised further, let it go and considered the matter over.
But really, I thought, why would Jake be so defensive about some random LT that might have otherwise gone completely unnoticed? If I were a government operative hell-bent on destroying the global hacker community, what would I do differently from what Jake is doing now?
Once I arrived at the 30c3, not more than 10 minutes went by before Jake himself comes and accosts me, warning “there will be severe consequences” unless I hand over everything this person sent. I told him that I no longer had the records he sought, but that simply wasn’t good enough.
...
Every night, I came back to my hotel room, a typewritten note on my pillow stating, “Don’t make us use extreme measures. Hand it all over.”
...
posted by jamjam at 11:43 PM on June 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
Describing Appelbaum's behavior as "errored" seems kind of weirdly trivializing and cutesy.
Worse than that, it's grammatically incorrect! ioerror erred.
posted by Dysk at 1:35 AM on June 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
Worse than that, it's grammatically incorrect! ioerror erred.
posted by Dysk at 1:35 AM on June 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
Leigh Honeywell writes: "The stories I have read are entirely consistent with my own experiences being sexually involved with Jacob in 2006-2007."
There’s a depressing irony contained within the closing lines of that blog post. She opens it by quoting herself
I really, really don’t want to call her out personally here: I’m sure she has good reasons for not naming them. It’s just that these are probably the same kind of reasons that kept people from calling out ioerror’s actions in public, which is what’s frustrating & depressing about the whole thing - nothing *really* changes when you kick out one bad actor: You’ve just created a hole for some other abuser to step into unless and until the wider community changes their attitude.
Leigh has been a strong advocate for that wider change, but the implication of her blog post is that clearly that there’s a long, long way to go.
posted by pharm at 2:29 AM on June 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
There’s a depressing irony contained within the closing lines of that blog post. She opens it by quoting herself
“The problem with ‘open secrets’ is that they are never open enough to keep people safe.”then closes the article by warning of another bad actor in the community, without naming them
“I’ve noticed at least one person who also has a history of sexual assault spreading word about the accusations about Jacob in a supportive way. I just want to say that, like Jacob himself, simply talking the talk about consent and sex positivity and ‘yes means yes’ does not make someone a safe person to be around.”So someone else in the community is an ‘open secret’ :(
I really, really don’t want to call her out personally here: I’m sure she has good reasons for not naming them. It’s just that these are probably the same kind of reasons that kept people from calling out ioerror’s actions in public, which is what’s frustrating & depressing about the whole thing - nothing *really* changes when you kick out one bad actor: You’ve just created a hole for some other abuser to step into unless and until the wider community changes their attitude.
Leigh has been a strong advocate for that wider change, but the implication of her blog post is that clearly that there’s a long, long way to go.
posted by pharm at 2:29 AM on June 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
I wonder if there's some psychological dynamic that attracts sexual predators to the privacy/anti-surveillance movement.
posted by acb at 3:50 AM on June 8, 2016
posted by acb at 3:50 AM on June 8, 2016
So someone else in the community is an ‘open secret’ :(
The whole hacker/tech community is an open secret. This kind of thing is endemic.
I don't know Jake personally, having only met him once, but I do know some of the people involved and I'd heard some pretty disturbing stories about him. My guess is that for this to be happening in the face of the kind of hero-worship he's managed to attract, he must have upset an awful lot of people.
I’m sure she has good reasons for not naming them.
Maybe because, like Nick Farr, these aren't her stories to tell? Or maybe because if she started naming names she'd severely limit her career prospects? That must have been a very difficult post for her to write, even from her position of relative security. Hell, it was hard enough for me to read it.
It’s just that these are probably the same kind of reasons that kept people from calling out ioerror’s actions in public, which is what’s frustrating & depressing about the whole thing - nothing *really* changes when you kick out one bad actor: You’ve just created a hole for some other abuser to step into unless and until the wider community changes their attitude.
I can only speculate about Jake's character flaws based on the accounts of him I've heard in the past (consistent with what's coming out now) but in my experience this end of the tech community has fostered an environment which rewards and lionises powerful men for predatory behaviour. So I don't blame her for not naming names. What good would it do? Without any kind of evidence, it's all hearsay until people get together and decide to do something about it. And even then it gets written off as dirty tricks or some kind of feminist conspiracy because why else would anyone want to discredit this great hero?
Writing off individuals as bad apples is not enough if we don't address the culture that allows them to operate freely. I'd like to think that this is a sign things could be changing for the better but I'm not holding my breath.
posted by Elizabeth the Thirteenth at 4:03 AM on June 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
The whole hacker/tech community is an open secret. This kind of thing is endemic.
I don't know Jake personally, having only met him once, but I do know some of the people involved and I'd heard some pretty disturbing stories about him. My guess is that for this to be happening in the face of the kind of hero-worship he's managed to attract, he must have upset an awful lot of people.
I’m sure she has good reasons for not naming them.
Maybe because, like Nick Farr, these aren't her stories to tell? Or maybe because if she started naming names she'd severely limit her career prospects? That must have been a very difficult post for her to write, even from her position of relative security. Hell, it was hard enough for me to read it.
It’s just that these are probably the same kind of reasons that kept people from calling out ioerror’s actions in public, which is what’s frustrating & depressing about the whole thing - nothing *really* changes when you kick out one bad actor: You’ve just created a hole for some other abuser to step into unless and until the wider community changes their attitude.
I can only speculate about Jake's character flaws based on the accounts of him I've heard in the past (consistent with what's coming out now) but in my experience this end of the tech community has fostered an environment which rewards and lionises powerful men for predatory behaviour. So I don't blame her for not naming names. What good would it do? Without any kind of evidence, it's all hearsay until people get together and decide to do something about it. And even then it gets written off as dirty tricks or some kind of feminist conspiracy because why else would anyone want to discredit this great hero?
Writing off individuals as bad apples is not enough if we don't address the culture that allows them to operate freely. I'd like to think that this is a sign things could be changing for the better but I'm not holding my breath.
posted by Elizabeth the Thirteenth at 4:03 AM on June 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
I really, really don’t want to call her out personally here: I’m sure she has good reasons for not naming them.
The current call-out of Jake is clearly a community effort. It's much more difficult for an individual to publicly accuse someone else of sexual harassment without some support. Jake's victims have been talking between themselves for years.
posted by daveje at 4:22 AM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
The current call-out of Jake is clearly a community effort. It's much more difficult for an individual to publicly accuse someone else of sexual harassment without some support. Jake's victims have been talking between themselves for years.
posted by daveje at 4:22 AM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Exactly: I’m not saying she should be naming the individual - I’m saying that the fact that she isn’t doing so shows that the real problem isn’t fixed & that’s a depressing thought. I thought my comment was pretty clear on that distinction, but maybe not?
posted by pharm at 4:33 AM on June 8, 2016
posted by pharm at 4:33 AM on June 8, 2016
Today I learned cult dead cow's home page has not been updated in eight months and they are posting on facebook. Bizarre. I can't see what they posted without a facebook login.
If I were a government operative hell-bent on destroying the global hacker community, what would I do differently from what Jake is doing now?
That is a good question and some morph on it applies in way too many contexts.
posted by bukvich at 5:05 AM on June 8, 2016
If I were a government operative hell-bent on destroying the global hacker community, what would I do differently from what Jake is doing now?
That is a good question and some morph on it applies in way too many contexts.
posted by bukvich at 5:05 AM on June 8, 2016
I was quite impressed with the cult of the dead cow's statement actually. It's years and years since I've been exposed to them, and I was very happy to see my fears and prejudices proved wrong.
posted by Dysk at 5:14 AM on June 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 5:14 AM on June 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
Today I learned cult dead cow's home page has not been updated in eight months and they are posting on facebook.
Of course, the cDc still exists and is now a Facebook group, that makes perfect sense. In other news, the Legion of Doom is now a club that meets every other Tuesday for LARP sessions, the L0pht has been converted to a tavern that resembles Bob's Country Bunker, and The PHIRM now runs a chain of shopping mall cell-phone kiosks.
posted by sfenders at 6:26 AM on June 8, 2016 [22 favorites]
Of course, the cDc still exists and is now a Facebook group, that makes perfect sense. In other news, the Legion of Doom is now a club that meets every other Tuesday for LARP sessions, the L0pht has been converted to a tavern that resembles Bob's Country Bunker, and The PHIRM now runs a chain of shopping mall cell-phone kiosks.
posted by sfenders at 6:26 AM on June 8, 2016 [22 favorites]
I wonder if there's some psychological dynamic that attracts sexual predators to the privacy/anti-surveillance movement.acb: That dynamic is "a desire to reduce chances of getting caught."
posted by baconaut at 7:52 AM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Thank you for that sfenders I never heard of PHIRM. L0pht's home page hasn't been updated in 8 months either.
Maybe they were all always spook side-projects and the funding got swapped elsewhere.
posted by bukvich at 7:52 AM on June 8, 2016
Maybe they were all always spook side-projects and the funding got swapped elsewhere.
posted by bukvich at 7:52 AM on June 8, 2016
Today I learned cult dead cow's home page has not been updated in eight months and they are posting on facebook. Bizarre. I can't see what they posted without a facebook login.
I'm a longtime member of cDc's auxiliary Ninja Strike Force. cDc has, like everybody else, followed the path of least resistance in gathering together & sharing information. Yes, Facebook. FWIW the FB group is public & anybody already on FB should be able to look inside without joining. The Cult's statement was made there first & meant to be shared & reposted wherever the reader felt was appropriate, as all of cDc's content has been since it was founded in 1986. I will now do that here for my fellow MeFites. I am not speaking on behalf of my brothers & sisters in cDc, merely forwarding their message. And now you can do the same. That's how we roll. Bow to the Cow.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
06-June-2016
CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror
Like much of the hacker community, we were troubled to hear the allegations of sexual abuse, manipulation, and bullying leveled against one of our members, Jacob Appelbaum, A.K.A. ioerror. We’re also aware that the Tor Project is conducting an internal investigation, and encourage anyone with relevant testimony to come forward. For some, it won’t be easy. There can be shaming or humiliation, or the fear of not being believed.
It is also our responsibility to create an environment where people feel safe to come forward. We have always stood for freedom of speech and expression, which sometimes necessitates the right to anonymity. This is something that victims of abuse often require. We stand by their right to be anonymous. Others, like our friend Nick Farr, who decided to go public with his own difficulties, deserve our respect and support. Everyone will do this in their own way.
We know that it may be scary, but we also encourage victims to contact their appropriate local authorities. We understand the complicated relationship we all have with law enforcement, but there is a time and place for government intervention. If the most extreme of these allegations are true, they should be addressed in a court of law, and dealt with appropriately.
CULT OF THE DEAD COW is known for a lot of things, but treating people horribly is not one of them. If communities are to thrive and remain relevant we have to do some housecleaning from time to time. As we have become aware of the anonymous accusations of sexual assault, as well as the stories told by individuals we know and trust, we've decided to remove Jake from the herd effective immediately.
EOM
posted by scalefree at 8:13 AM on June 8, 2016 [17 favorites]
I'm a longtime member of cDc's auxiliary Ninja Strike Force. cDc has, like everybody else, followed the path of least resistance in gathering together & sharing information. Yes, Facebook. FWIW the FB group is public & anybody already on FB should be able to look inside without joining. The Cult's statement was made there first & meant to be shared & reposted wherever the reader felt was appropriate, as all of cDc's content has been since it was founded in 1986. I will now do that here for my fellow MeFites. I am not speaking on behalf of my brothers & sisters in cDc, merely forwarding their message. And now you can do the same. That's how we roll. Bow to the Cow.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
06-June-2016
CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror
Like much of the hacker community, we were troubled to hear the allegations of sexual abuse, manipulation, and bullying leveled against one of our members, Jacob Appelbaum, A.K.A. ioerror. We’re also aware that the Tor Project is conducting an internal investigation, and encourage anyone with relevant testimony to come forward. For some, it won’t be easy. There can be shaming or humiliation, or the fear of not being believed.
It is also our responsibility to create an environment where people feel safe to come forward. We have always stood for freedom of speech and expression, which sometimes necessitates the right to anonymity. This is something that victims of abuse often require. We stand by their right to be anonymous. Others, like our friend Nick Farr, who decided to go public with his own difficulties, deserve our respect and support. Everyone will do this in their own way.
We know that it may be scary, but we also encourage victims to contact their appropriate local authorities. We understand the complicated relationship we all have with law enforcement, but there is a time and place for government intervention. If the most extreme of these allegations are true, they should be addressed in a court of law, and dealt with appropriately.
CULT OF THE DEAD COW is known for a lot of things, but treating people horribly is not one of them. If communities are to thrive and remain relevant we have to do some housecleaning from time to time. As we have become aware of the anonymous accusations of sexual assault, as well as the stories told by individuals we know and trust, we've decided to remove Jake from the herd effective immediately.
EOM
posted by scalefree at 8:13 AM on June 8, 2016 [17 favorites]
Thank you for that sfenders I never heard of PHIRM. L0pht's home page hasn't been updated in 8 months either.
Life is change. What started out as a space to store old computers & manuals became a cohesive group following a collective set of interests. That group became the core of a company that helped define the Information Security industry. Its members have gone on from there to be leaders in their field, some founding their own companies in turn & one notable member becoming the de facto liaison between the Defense Department & the hacker underground, now returned to the private sector. They are all my friends & none of them to my knowledge has ever been anything less than forthright about who they are & what they stand for. And again I speak only for myself on behalf of longtime friends.
posted by scalefree at 8:21 AM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Life is change. What started out as a space to store old computers & manuals became a cohesive group following a collective set of interests. That group became the core of a company that helped define the Information Security industry. Its members have gone on from there to be leaders in their field, some founding their own companies in turn & one notable member becoming the de facto liaison between the Defense Department & the hacker underground, now returned to the private sector. They are all my friends & none of them to my knowledge has ever been anything less than forthright about who they are & what they stand for. And again I speak only for myself on behalf of longtime friends.
posted by scalefree at 8:21 AM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Longtime cDc member & hacktivist Oxblood Ruffin's take on the Jake Appelbaum scandal.
posted by scalefree at 8:27 AM on June 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 8:27 AM on June 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's kind of a shame that Oxblood Ruffin takes the time to denigrate Applebaum's contributions to the cDc. It'd have been a more powerful statement if he'd omitted it (and more powerful still to say someone's contributions were invaluable but they're gone and there can be no question because this is important, but well, the facts are what the facts are, so that may not be the case) so it doesn't seem a little like 'yeah, we didn't like that guy and this let us get rid of him'.
posted by Dysk at 8:55 AM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 8:55 AM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Nothing from GM Ratte yet, eh?
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:59 AM on June 8, 2016
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:59 AM on June 8, 2016
Man, I remember the first cDc text files I read. Filled with sexual violence.
Did I remember right? No time to re-read them all this morning. A quick perusal of the cDc archive tells me my recollection is about right (without getting into the specific trigger warnings -- just assume any and all -- I would direct attention to cDc-0264.txt and cDc-0018.txt). Those two files stand seven years apart.
I guess I read most of those when I was 11 or 12. Turns out, on quick review with grep to find the files, my recollections were vivid. I wonder if they kicked any of these authors out.
Infosec is my trade, it's my hobby and it's my passion, professionally it's where I've spent most of my adult life.
But I'm not a "personality", don't want to be, I don't go to the "hacker" cons because I'm pretty sure there's nothing worth having there for me -- at least that I can't get better on my own from documentation and experimentation and academic papers. I hear it's a great setting to make friends with feds, entrepreneurs and egomaniacs -- sounds horrible.
I don't go to the hacker spaces, I don't compete in CTFs and as I've said elsewhere if your event happens at a bar I definitely am not attending.
But people keep acting like I'm missing something, like I've deprived myself of success or happiness and all I can really say is it must be success looks different for me than for them.
cDc, for better and worse, informed how I relate to this world, infosec and the larger world, and I'm missing the linkage between their past and history. I think that would be a good story for 0xblood to tell.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 9:00 AM on June 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
Did I remember right? No time to re-read them all this morning. A quick perusal of the cDc archive tells me my recollection is about right (without getting into the specific trigger warnings -- just assume any and all -- I would direct attention to cDc-0264.txt and cDc-0018.txt). Those two files stand seven years apart.
I guess I read most of those when I was 11 or 12. Turns out, on quick review with grep to find the files, my recollections were vivid. I wonder if they kicked any of these authors out.
Infosec is my trade, it's my hobby and it's my passion, professionally it's where I've spent most of my adult life.
But I'm not a "personality", don't want to be, I don't go to the "hacker" cons because I'm pretty sure there's nothing worth having there for me -- at least that I can't get better on my own from documentation and experimentation and academic papers. I hear it's a great setting to make friends with feds, entrepreneurs and egomaniacs -- sounds horrible.
I don't go to the hacker spaces, I don't compete in CTFs and as I've said elsewhere if your event happens at a bar I definitely am not attending.
But people keep acting like I'm missing something, like I've deprived myself of success or happiness and all I can really say is it must be success looks different for me than for them.
cDc, for better and worse, informed how I relate to this world, infosec and the larger world, and I'm missing the linkage between their past and history. I think that would be a good story for 0xblood to tell.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 9:00 AM on June 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
A ton of the cDc folks were teenagers when they started in cDc and are now middle age. It makes a ton of sense that they their attitude towards violence and sexual violence has changed dramatically.
Thankfully the time I met IOError he was kind of a dismissive dick to me and I never engaged with him again (this was before he was internet famous, just a little well known in the 'scene', more of a photographer than a big name activist).
I am friends with a bunch of the folks that have come forward though, and their word is impeccable to me. As they related first-hand accounts, I have absolutely no doubt as to the truth of their statements.
I just wonder when people will finally out a couple of the extremely high profile pederasts that are polluting the hacker community. Googling the matter there are some mentions here and there about other serial offenders on the net, but nothing that has gotten these folks kicked out of their communities (indeed, one is a leader of a scene).
I understand how and why the accusations were anonymous, but am heartened that those anonymous accusations then caused a bunch of other folks to stand up and talk about what they witnessed and experienced.
I wonder if in addition to sports, religion, the infosec community, if every community has these well known offenders in them.
posted by el io at 9:56 AM on June 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
Thankfully the time I met IOError he was kind of a dismissive dick to me and I never engaged with him again (this was before he was internet famous, just a little well known in the 'scene', more of a photographer than a big name activist).
I am friends with a bunch of the folks that have come forward though, and their word is impeccable to me. As they related first-hand accounts, I have absolutely no doubt as to the truth of their statements.
I just wonder when people will finally out a couple of the extremely high profile pederasts that are polluting the hacker community. Googling the matter there are some mentions here and there about other serial offenders on the net, but nothing that has gotten these folks kicked out of their communities (indeed, one is a leader of a scene).
I understand how and why the accusations were anonymous, but am heartened that those anonymous accusations then caused a bunch of other folks to stand up and talk about what they witnessed and experienced.
I wonder if in addition to sports, religion, the infosec community, if every community has these well known offenders in them.
posted by el io at 9:56 AM on June 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
el io: if you're not going to name names, and you know seem to know how these bad folks are, how about a more specific set of search terms or a link off to someone who is willing to name these names?
Why ask "when people will finally out a couple of the high profile pederasts"? You could point us to better breadcrumbs, at least. Google searches for "hacker serial pederast", "hacker community pederast" and "defcon serial pederast" -- suggestions?
If I knew, I would say it.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 10:12 AM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why ask "when people will finally out a couple of the high profile pederasts"? You could point us to better breadcrumbs, at least. Google searches for "hacker serial pederast", "hacker community pederast" and "defcon serial pederast" -- suggestions?
If I knew, I would say it.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 10:12 AM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
el io: if you're not going to name names, and you know seem to know how these bad folks are, how about a more specific set of search terms or a link off to someone who is willing to name these names?
I will name the names. 2600 Magazine publisher Emmanuel Goldstein/Eric Corley & "legendary phone phreak" Captain Crunch/John Draper. I've heard convincing, reinforcing first hand stories from multiple sources about Draper going back 25 years. I cannot say the same about Corley, more like dark but unsubstantiated rumors. But those are definitely the people being referenced.
posted by scalefree at 10:22 AM on June 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
I will name the names. 2600 Magazine publisher Emmanuel Goldstein/Eric Corley & "legendary phone phreak" Captain Crunch/John Draper. I've heard convincing, reinforcing first hand stories from multiple sources about Draper going back 25 years. I cannot say the same about Corley, more like dark but unsubstantiated rumors. But those are definitely the people being referenced.
posted by scalefree at 10:22 AM on June 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
Dysk: It's very, very relevant that Jacob made no concrete contributions to cDc. He made few concrete contributions to Tor. He's been accused of plagiarism. Again: this adds up to sociopath rapist, not just rapist. That's important to keep in mind because it's also a way of understanding his charisma, his way of working through a community, and his way of getting what he wants.
posted by gusandrews at 10:47 AM on June 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by gusandrews at 10:47 AM on June 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I too have had friends (that were young teenagers) that have had unpleasant encounters with Draper ('no, i won't go back to your room with you and get a massage'). And I've personally watched Emmanuel Goldstein pick up someone under 18 (he must have been 50 at the time).
posted by el io at 10:48 AM on June 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by el io at 10:48 AM on June 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
Confirming that I've heard the same stories about Captain Crunch. He's known as a molester.
posted by gusandrews at 10:51 AM on June 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by gusandrews at 10:51 AM on June 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
I can confirm Draper's forcible, and thankfully thwarted, attempt to give me a 'power yoga' massage.
posted by baconaut at 11:07 AM on June 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by baconaut at 11:07 AM on June 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
Matthew Garret's Be wary of heroes is worth reading this this in mind. (I assume it was written with this in mind.)
posted by joeyh at 11:29 AM on June 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by joeyh at 11:29 AM on June 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
Poor Nick. He was always so happy at hacker camps... stressed and busy and running around in his suit and happy, talking to everyone, bathing in the atmosphere of the event. I really hope to see him again at a future camp.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:43 AM on June 8, 2016
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:43 AM on June 8, 2016
Nick is great, and sometimes he gives of himself a little too much. He's taking a break from the whole scene for a while, but hopefully he'll still poke his head in where he's loved once in a while. Nick Farr appreciation thread, activate!
posted by phooky at 12:04 PM on June 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by phooky at 12:04 PM on June 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
Draper's creepiness ain't that secret but he still has his defenders - "oh he's just a weird old man." I've heard things about Corley too but it was often coming from people like this so it wasn't obvious at the time that it might be for real.
posted by atoxyl at 12:10 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by atoxyl at 12:10 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
" it was often coming from people like this "
Yeah, googling I saw some accusations on encyclopedia dramatica, but it's not like I'm going to link to that here (or anywhere), and not like anyone is going to take that as a credible source.
I didn't mean to derail the thread...
Given TOR and CdC's actions, I wonder how many other organizations will start to disassociate themselves from Jacob. Googling "jacob appelbaum board of advisors" reveals a surprising number of hits: Privacy International, Freedom of the Press Foundation, Purism, Securing Change, Wikileaks (duh)... (note, there is another Dr Jacob Applebaum that unfortunately shares a name with him that is on some boards - not the same guy).
posted by el io at 12:34 PM on June 8, 2016
Yeah, googling I saw some accusations on encyclopedia dramatica, but it's not like I'm going to link to that here (or anywhere), and not like anyone is going to take that as a credible source.
I didn't mean to derail the thread...
Given TOR and CdC's actions, I wonder how many other organizations will start to disassociate themselves from Jacob. Googling "jacob appelbaum board of advisors" reveals a surprising number of hits: Privacy International, Freedom of the Press Foundation, Purism, Securing Change, Wikileaks (duh)... (note, there is another Dr Jacob Applebaum that unfortunately shares a name with him that is on some boards - not the same guy).
posted by el io at 12:34 PM on June 8, 2016
Cryptome has what seems to be the separation agreement between Appelbaum and the Tor project:
https://cryptome.org/2016/06/tor-appelbaum-separation.pdf
posted by Matt Oneiros at 1:30 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
https://cryptome.org/2016/06/tor-appelbaum-separation.pdf
posted by Matt Oneiros at 1:30 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
anyone know if tanja lange (of elliptical crypto fame) has commented on this at all? or what her general politics are? appelbaum recently started a phd under her supervision.
(note that appelbaum didn't sign the document above, according to the link, so it's not an actual "agreement")
posted by andrewcooke at 2:21 PM on June 8, 2016
(note that appelbaum didn't sign the document above, according to the link, so it's not an actual "agreement")
posted by andrewcooke at 2:21 PM on June 8, 2016
I met him through Scott Beale (laughingsquid.com), who vouched for him to document a billboard hit back in '04 (IIRC) and became friends after that. Heck he took my mefi profile picture. Soon, I couldn't underground art party or tech meetup in SF with out running into him, everyone adored him and his daring work and photography.
About a year or two later the grumbling started to surface, pissing of this person, angering that person, 'accidentally' breaking a friend's finger. Most of it was dismissed as him being in his mid-20s and not having the maturity to behave better. And he just disappeared, I guessed he was either run out of town and went to find a new crop of suckers to charm and bedazzle. Nothing I heard was of a sexual nature but then I didn't get invited to those kind of parties, but I seeing how quickly the audience turned on him I'm not shocked by this at all.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 2:27 PM on June 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
About a year or two later the grumbling started to surface, pissing of this person, angering that person, 'accidentally' breaking a friend's finger. Most of it was dismissed as him being in his mid-20s and not having the maturity to behave better. And he just disappeared, I guessed he was either run out of town and went to find a new crop of suckers to charm and bedazzle. Nothing I heard was of a sexual nature but then I didn't get invited to those kind of parties, but I seeing how quickly the audience turned on him I'm not shocked by this at all.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 2:27 PM on June 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hmm, I knew of Draper groping and being creepy to male friends at raves back in the 90's. Which makes me think about the mechanisms by which these sort of people continue to victimize people in fairly tight-knit groups. Certainly if you hang around people who are wary of authority and/or high on drugs you've got a degree of cover. I think that around the Bay Area people have also been reluctant to complain about LBGTQ people that are harassers for fear of seeming like a homophobe. It also seems that aligning oneself politically and being proactive with sympathetic organizations is something of a shield- I knew of two people that were very active in the medical marijuana scene about 15-20 years ago who would show up at parties with very high teenage boys and everyone would shake their heads and roll their eyes... but who wants to be the bad guy and suddenly start complaining about a well known, sometimes well liked, famous or pro-active person that's supposed to be on your side? Especially in the sort of underground, us-agianst-the-man kinds of scenes. As a witness 2 or 3 removes away it's very difficult to know what exactly to do or who to go to- you just start warning people to stay away from the abusers. I know some organizations that threw parties would tell people they were not welcome to come around any more, once there was kind of a groundswell of "this person is bad" but until that happens people are still being taken advantage of and being hurt.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:31 PM on June 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 2:31 PM on June 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
Cap'n Crunch is a classic missing stair situation - lots of people will tell you to watch out for him but they won't kick him out because he cuts a bit of a pathetic figure/they are uncomfortable being exclusionary.
posted by atoxyl at 2:41 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by atoxyl at 2:41 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Cap’n Crunch is also kind of iconic. It’s hard to tear down an icon.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:31 PM on June 8, 2016
posted by Going To Maine at 3:31 PM on June 8, 2016
jeez is everyone in the hacker community on MeFi
posted by gusandrews at 3:34 PM on June 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by gusandrews at 3:34 PM on June 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
The idea that they would offer a mutual non-disparagement clause in light of the information is off putting. As a community driven organization I think they have an obligation to take a stand and make a comment to protect others.
posted by humanfont at 3:39 PM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 3:39 PM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Cap’n Crunch is also kind of iconic.
Except that if this book is accurate, people thought Draper was a creep (if not a molester) even back in the early days.
posted by asterix at 3:40 PM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Except that if this book is accurate, people thought Draper was a creep (if not a molester) even back in the early days.
posted by asterix at 3:40 PM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
andrewcooke: true, I probably should've labelled that as "purported proposed agreement".
Tanja Lange hasn't made any statement that I've seen so far on twitter, her site, or her department's site. Politically, I assume but do not know, she could be similar to Daniel J. Bernstein since they seem to collaborate a lot and share a department. In the university environment I know it could be perilous for her to remark upon accusations made against one of her graduate students and even if it is permissible I have little doubt Uni lawyers have asked her to at least wait a bit. DJB has remarked, though I think his point would have been better articulated if he'd waited until he was a bit calmer and had thought it through a bit more.
Freedom of the Press Foundation has also disassociated themselves from Appelbaum. Appelbaum does not appear on the Wikileaks Advisory Board and so far as Google site search indicates there hasn't been much mention of him by name or by handle in the past year (just a quote of a tweet, and the cryptome archive carrying the unsigned agreement I linked above). He is still listed on The Calyx Institute Advisory Panel but knowing a bit of the characters of Eleanor Saitta (who has had a lot to say on the matter) and Micah Anderson, I expect that will change eventually (Calyx so far as I know has always been rather slow moving). I couldn't find a statement from Puri.sm, but Appelbaum was on the puri.sm About page on 6/4 but is not today.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 3:52 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Tanja Lange hasn't made any statement that I've seen so far on twitter, her site, or her department's site. Politically, I assume but do not know, she could be similar to Daniel J. Bernstein since they seem to collaborate a lot and share a department. In the university environment I know it could be perilous for her to remark upon accusations made against one of her graduate students and even if it is permissible I have little doubt Uni lawyers have asked her to at least wait a bit. DJB has remarked, though I think his point would have been better articulated if he'd waited until he was a bit calmer and had thought it through a bit more.
Freedom of the Press Foundation has also disassociated themselves from Appelbaum. Appelbaum does not appear on the Wikileaks Advisory Board and so far as Google site search indicates there hasn't been much mention of him by name or by handle in the past year (just a quote of a tweet, and the cryptome archive carrying the unsigned agreement I linked above). He is still listed on The Calyx Institute Advisory Panel but knowing a bit of the characters of Eleanor Saitta (who has had a lot to say on the matter) and Micah Anderson, I expect that will change eventually (Calyx so far as I know has always been rather slow moving). I couldn't find a statement from Puri.sm, but Appelbaum was on the puri.sm About page on 6/4 but is not today.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 3:52 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
thanks. i imagine she could be in a difficult position (in retrospect i don't like how my question came across - my partner is a prof and i was trying to imagine what it would be like if this were her student).
posted by andrewcooke at 3:58 PM on June 8, 2016
posted by andrewcooke at 3:58 PM on June 8, 2016
Tanja Lange hasn't made any statement that I've seen so far on twitter, her site, or her department's site. Politically, I assume but do not know, she could be similar to Daniel J. Bernstein since they seem to collaborate a lot and share a department.
Should she? Appelbaum might be a scummy guy who is getting the community backlash he deserves, but should his graduate career get wrecked? (On the other hand, if he was admitted under false pretenses or such, then sure.)
posted by Going To Maine at 4:20 PM on June 8, 2016
Should she? Appelbaum might be a scummy guy who is getting the community backlash he deserves, but should his graduate career get wrecked? (On the other hand, if he was admitted under false pretenses or such, then sure.)
posted by Going To Maine at 4:20 PM on June 8, 2016
*sigh* This toxicity that is rampant in the InfoSec community really frustrates me. I keep one foot in that world - I'm one of those rare InfoSec/AppDev hybrids, and it's the shit like this that keeps me from ever having any desire to leap entirely into the InfoSec world. It's so easy for perfectly rational people to get wrapped up in it and accept it as "just part of the scene".
posted by jferg at 4:27 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jferg at 4:27 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Going to Maine: Probably she shouldn't remark publicly just yet IMO, just based on the environment her and Appelbaum share. I didn't mean to imply she ought or oughtn't to, only to help Andrew (and everyone) fill out their maps a bit more.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 4:40 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Matt Oneiros at 4:40 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Holy shit I had completely forgotten about my weird Cap’n Crunch experiences as a teenager until now. Christ.
posted by Jairus at 6:10 PM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Jairus at 6:10 PM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
OK I lied, I'm back just long enough to try to steer things back to more productive terrain.
[rape, sexual assault] ioerror, TOR, and encouraging victims to report rape to law enforcement
Self rescuing princesses
And now I'm off to the sidelines for the remainder of the thread.
posted by scalefree at 6:14 PM on June 8, 2016
[rape, sexual assault] ioerror, TOR, and encouraging victims to report rape to law enforcement
Self rescuing princesses
And now I'm off to the sidelines for the remainder of the thread.
posted by scalefree at 6:14 PM on June 8, 2016
Happily in our society it isn't necessary to make a contract with someone not to rape you. Or, to establish the criteria for guilt. That last link is garbage.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:50 PM on June 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:50 PM on June 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
Seriously, rape victims need to be self rescuing 'princesses'? To protect Tor's funding? Fuck that and the dismissive Super Mario reference it rode in on.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:56 PM on June 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:56 PM on June 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
Thanks for contributing, scalefree. And you should feel free to contribute.
Maine, it wouldn't be the worst thing if he buckled down and did the solid work required to get his PhD (certainly, that's some competent mentorship). But yes, both plagiarism and ... being a risk to those around him are relevant factors in graduate studies.
posted by effugas at 8:50 PM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Maine, it wouldn't be the worst thing if he buckled down and did the solid work required to get his PhD (certainly, that's some competent mentorship). But yes, both plagiarism and ... being a risk to those around him are relevant factors in graduate studies.
posted by effugas at 8:50 PM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wow, that Shava Nerad twitlonger is a total piece of shit. "shut up shut up shut up! funding of Tor is more important than your ability to talk about a sociopathic sexual harasser!" What a self-involved asshole.
posted by tavella at 11:03 PM on June 8, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by tavella at 11:03 PM on June 8, 2016 [9 favorites]
Cap’n Crunch is also kind of iconic.
Cultivated eccentricity/flamboyance as a camouflage/distraction mechanism for predators (see also: Jimmy Saville, possibly Michael Jackson)
It's easy enough to connect this, the paranoid anti-authoritarianism of the hacker scene and the 1960s “sexual revolution” and conclude that movements against authority and social constraints were essentially cover for predators. Though given that the old, authoritarian order had more than its share of very well-protected abusers, a more accurate cynical observation would be that it's mobile bandits trying to steal a march on the stationary bandits.
The constant throughout, of course, is the inevitability of abuse and exploitation (by both small-town patriarchs and hippie gurus/anarchist hackers), which is what needs to be tackled.
posted by acb at 4:15 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
Cultivated eccentricity/flamboyance as a camouflage/distraction mechanism for predators (see also: Jimmy Saville, possibly Michael Jackson)
It's easy enough to connect this, the paranoid anti-authoritarianism of the hacker scene and the 1960s “sexual revolution” and conclude that movements against authority and social constraints were essentially cover for predators. Though given that the old, authoritarian order had more than its share of very well-protected abusers, a more accurate cynical observation would be that it's mobile bandits trying to steal a march on the stationary bandits.
The constant throughout, of course, is the inevitability of abuse and exploitation (by both small-town patriarchs and hippie gurus/anarchist hackers), which is what needs to be tackled.
posted by acb at 4:15 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
Seriously? What sort of "meditation" does Shava Nerad think should happen between an abuser and his victims? And of course the community doesn't actually have an interest in getting rid of abusers and predators. And keep it quiet, because money.
Shava Nerad is exactly the sort of enabler that allows a predetor like Applbaum to fiction for so long. He gives anarchism a bad name.
posted by happyroach at 9:12 AM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
Shava Nerad is exactly the sort of enabler that allows a predetor like Applbaum to fiction for so long. He gives anarchism a bad name.
posted by happyroach at 9:12 AM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
She, I believe. Which is always a brutal reminder that women can be some of the most enthusiastic enforcers of abuse by men.
posted by tavella at 10:05 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 10:05 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's an elephant in the room when it comes to both the open source movement and the infosec scene, and its the same issue the kink scene and to my knowledge the lgbtq culture has had to battle.
i'd love to name names, but it is'nt my story to tell, but seeing as we're almost touching on the dissident fetish.
the infosec scene is a festering cesspool of bloated egos. i've seen more than one missing stair comment on the ioerror affair but this isnt the story either.
the story is how someone can operate in the open for _a decade_ without so little as a public nudging in the infosec scene.
the story here is that it took a very public naming and shaming, to oust the abuser, because as i'm told and as you can read here, is that _nobody_ took the allegations seriously enough to just plainly state to the abuser that he is, an abuser and why he is.
the story here is how the GNOME project handled their community outreach, how KDE implemented community governance (ombudsmän etc).
this is such a clusterfuck.
to the point that we even now have one of the witnesses going on the record to say this.
the infosec community must take a longer, harder, closer look at itself because its sitting on more stories like these, and very serious one's at that.
and as far as brokep's statements here, the community has always been inclusive of individuals from the white middle class. there are other, not very inclusive viewpoints (mine included)
the point i'm trying to make, is that i'm pissed off at everybody involved but mostly with Jake.
posted by xcasex at 3:07 PM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
i'd love to name names, but it is'nt my story to tell, but seeing as we're almost touching on the dissident fetish.
the infosec scene is a festering cesspool of bloated egos. i've seen more than one missing stair comment on the ioerror affair but this isnt the story either.
the story is how someone can operate in the open for _a decade_ without so little as a public nudging in the infosec scene.
the story here is that it took a very public naming and shaming, to oust the abuser, because as i'm told and as you can read here, is that _nobody_ took the allegations seriously enough to just plainly state to the abuser that he is, an abuser and why he is.
the story here is how the GNOME project handled their community outreach, how KDE implemented community governance (ombudsmän etc).
this is such a clusterfuck.
to the point that we even now have one of the witnesses going on the record to say this.
the infosec community must take a longer, harder, closer look at itself because its sitting on more stories like these, and very serious one's at that.
and as far as brokep's statements here, the community has always been inclusive of individuals from the white middle class. there are other, not very inclusive viewpoints (mine included)
the point i'm trying to make, is that i'm pissed off at everybody involved but mostly with Jake.
posted by xcasex at 3:07 PM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
Huh, so either an executive at Tor is leaking their communications (the disciplinary letter xcasex just linked, the unsigned separation agreement) or Jake is leaking them (to muddy the waters if it ever goes to court? something else?) or Appelbaum/Tor have severe opsec issues (the disciplinary letter seems to indicate whoever got it Appelbaum's torproject or gmail account -- maybe a infrastructure administrator for Tor is doing it). Slightly fuller version of the performance improvement letter, which includes the To: field of the email.
Of course it's that email and document are pretty fakeable, but the content seems to be pretty spot-on. Farivar is awaiting authentication from Tor Project.
I hope this can be a turning point for the infosec and privacy and anonymity communities, I guess I have some stake in trying to make it so, but I will probably need to be a little less reclusive to do my small part.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 3:51 PM on June 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
Of course it's that email and document are pretty fakeable, but the content seems to be pretty spot-on. Farivar is awaiting authentication from Tor Project.
I hope this can be a turning point for the infosec and privacy and anonymity communities, I guess I have some stake in trying to make it so, but I will probably need to be a little less reclusive to do my small part.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 3:51 PM on June 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
Statement by Jill Bähring regarding Jacob Appelbaum (verification)
posted by rhizome at 11:52 PM on June 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 11:52 PM on June 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
The consequences of mob justice: spraypainted apartmentbuilding where ioerror lives, with arrow pointing at wrong Window.
Wisdom of The crowds indeed.
posted by xcasex at 10:43 AM on June 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wisdom of The crowds indeed.
posted by xcasex at 10:43 AM on June 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wow. That's not any kind of justice. That's a special kind of asshattery.
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:48 AM on June 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:48 AM on June 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I've been thinking about timeline and how this all played out in the Tor project.
I had heard previously early in this situation that Appelbaum had been disciplined for sexual harassment around Spring 2015. The purported disciplinary letter would tend to corroborate this. As I thought about it, I wondered if the transition to Shari Steele (who has a strong background as a lawyer and advocate, in my opinion) was catalysed by or a catalyst for this important action by the Tor project.
An incomplete timeline assembled as I've tried to understand if this idea might be true and the genesis of the response in general:
12/12/2014: Andrew Lewman (at that time, Executive Director of Tor) posts Injustice, Accountability, and a Better Future, this is the first post tagged "abuse" or "feminism" on his blog
27-30/12/2014: 31c3 takes place.
17/01/2015: Andrew Lewman posts Learning About Abusers (two more posts on domestic violence appear on 18/2/2015 and 9/3/2015)
02/2015: Buzzfeed reports that Appelbaum's conduct comes up at the Tor developer meeting and is an issue. I think they have their dates wrong though, because the Tor developer meeting took place at the beginning of March, but maybe it wasn't the meeting but an informal pre-meeting where the events in the Buzzfeed story took place.
03/03/2015: First incident at the dev meeting where Appelbaum is alleged to engage in sexual harassment leading to eventual discipline
03/06/2015: Second incident at the dev meeting leading to disciplinary action regarding Appelbaum
18/03/2015: Performance improvement letter issued to Appelbaum
30/03/2015: Appelbaum slated to return to work from disciplinary leave
13/04/2015: Andrew Lewman officially leaves his post as Executive Director at Tor
11/09/2015 (on or around): the theme for jacobappelbaum.net is forked from the upstream author's repository, ignoring minor commits from February and March 2016.
11/12/2015: Shari Steele takes the helm as new ED
05/25/2016: Appelbaum resigns
05/27/2016: jacobappelbaum.net is registered
06/04/2016: Statement from the tor project
So of course, this is only a small window into what must have gone on throughout this time. It seems to me that maybe Lewman was struggling to understand what he was seeing, or struggling to get himself to do the right thing. I suspect in some way the Appelbaum situation is related to Lewman leaving. I wonder if we'll see an interview with him soon whether about the specifics of this scenario or just generally about the issues it points to.
Also it seems to me as if Shari Steele is likely a positive influence on Tor as an organization taking action but not by any means the only element within the organization which took action.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 12:03 PM on June 10, 2016
I had heard previously early in this situation that Appelbaum had been disciplined for sexual harassment around Spring 2015. The purported disciplinary letter would tend to corroborate this. As I thought about it, I wondered if the transition to Shari Steele (who has a strong background as a lawyer and advocate, in my opinion) was catalysed by or a catalyst for this important action by the Tor project.
An incomplete timeline assembled as I've tried to understand if this idea might be true and the genesis of the response in general:
12/12/2014: Andrew Lewman (at that time, Executive Director of Tor) posts Injustice, Accountability, and a Better Future, this is the first post tagged "abuse" or "feminism" on his blog
27-30/12/2014: 31c3 takes place.
17/01/2015: Andrew Lewman posts Learning About Abusers (two more posts on domestic violence appear on 18/2/2015 and 9/3/2015)
02/2015: Buzzfeed reports that Appelbaum's conduct comes up at the Tor developer meeting and is an issue. I think they have their dates wrong though, because the Tor developer meeting took place at the beginning of March, but maybe it wasn't the meeting but an informal pre-meeting where the events in the Buzzfeed story took place.
03/03/2015: First incident at the dev meeting where Appelbaum is alleged to engage in sexual harassment leading to eventual discipline
03/06/2015: Second incident at the dev meeting leading to disciplinary action regarding Appelbaum
18/03/2015: Performance improvement letter issued to Appelbaum
30/03/2015: Appelbaum slated to return to work from disciplinary leave
13/04/2015: Andrew Lewman officially leaves his post as Executive Director at Tor
11/09/2015 (on or around): the theme for jacobappelbaum.net is forked from the upstream author's repository, ignoring minor commits from February and March 2016.
11/12/2015: Shari Steele takes the helm as new ED
05/25/2016: Appelbaum resigns
05/27/2016: jacobappelbaum.net is registered
06/04/2016: Statement from the tor project
So of course, this is only a small window into what must have gone on throughout this time. It seems to me that maybe Lewman was struggling to understand what he was seeing, or struggling to get himself to do the right thing. I suspect in some way the Appelbaum situation is related to Lewman leaving. I wonder if we'll see an interview with him soon whether about the specifics of this scenario or just generally about the issues it points to.
Also it seems to me as if Shari Steele is likely a positive influence on Tor as an organization taking action but not by any means the only element within the organization which took action.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 12:03 PM on June 10, 2016
i think you switched date format in 2016?
posted by andrewcooke at 3:29 PM on June 10, 2016
posted by andrewcooke at 3:29 PM on June 10, 2016
Err, yep, I sure did, also the buzzfeed reporter corrected the timing in his article.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 4:09 PM on June 10, 2016
posted by Matt Oneiros at 4:09 PM on June 10, 2016
The response seems to be we never saw anything and we can't believe he did it. We have to weigh their character reference vs. the direct statements of victims and those who claimed to have observed the behavior.
posted by humanfont at 7:04 PM on June 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 7:04 PM on June 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
using tricks like insisting authors be listed alphabetically
Why am I not surprised that someone with an A name wants to be listed alphabetically?
posted by LizBoBiz at 9:04 AM on June 13, 2016
Why am I not surprised that someone with an A name wants to be listed alphabetically?
posted by LizBoBiz at 9:04 AM on June 13, 2016
Wow, what a pile of shit. "He was nice to me, so surely he didn't abuse other people!" "You can't remove this abusive person because it's distracting us from the *structural* issues!" "People talking about how he abused them is character assassination!"
As I referred to above: women who have brought into a patriarchal structure can be some of the most vicious enforcers of it.
posted by tavella at 10:34 AM on June 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
As I referred to above: women who have brought into a patriarchal structure can be some of the most vicious enforcers of it.
posted by tavella at 10:34 AM on June 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'd much rather trust the multiple people in my immediate network who say that they have had serious issues with Jake, than people I don't know and basically haven't heard of saying that there are no problems.
posted by daveje at 8:43 AM on June 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by daveje at 8:43 AM on June 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yeah, daveje, same. I have gone over my own sense that he's a bad actor to check it for holes multiple times. What I keep coming back to is the *range* of people I know who have had bad experiences with him. They're not all friends, so this is hardly a conspiracy. They all serve different roles in the community. And they each had different kinds of ugly experiences with him, ranging from physically unpleasant to career-threatening.
I was at the conference in 2015 where that Tor employee took her concerns to the higher-ups. I listened while she went through tears and shaking with rage.
I'm half-suppressing my own memory of Jake from that conference, because it creeped me out so fiercely. In addition to getting an earful from my friend at Tor, we had learned there was a UK activist among us who was going to talk about how she had been tricked by a police agent who had gotten romantically involved with her. One night on the way to dinner, I saw her and Jacob on their knees on the sidewalk, peering under a car. Jacob dug out what appeared to be a tracking device. He insisted on analyzing it himself.
Vulnerable activist, known bad actor, underside of car, device of unknown origin. The constellation made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. Got out of there as fast as I could.
posted by gusandrews at 12:52 AM on June 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
I was at the conference in 2015 where that Tor employee took her concerns to the higher-ups. I listened while she went through tears and shaking with rage.
I'm half-suppressing my own memory of Jake from that conference, because it creeped me out so fiercely. In addition to getting an earful from my friend at Tor, we had learned there was a UK activist among us who was going to talk about how she had been tricked by a police agent who had gotten romantically involved with her. One night on the way to dinner, I saw her and Jacob on their knees on the sidewalk, peering under a car. Jacob dug out what appeared to be a tracking device. He insisted on analyzing it himself.
Vulnerable activist, known bad actor, underside of car, device of unknown origin. The constellation made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. Got out of there as fast as I could.
posted by gusandrews at 12:52 AM on June 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
The Forest for the Trees
When I first started seeking out other victims, about six months ago, I did not want to formally report any of the stories I had heard from Jake’s victims to the Tor Project or others, for two primary reasons. First, that my main motivation in this was to ensure that these behaviours stopped, and it was not clear to me that any traditional punitive “justice” measures would achieve such. Second, I feared retaliation from Jake, as well as retaliation towards any of the victims whose stories I would divulge. Multiple victims at the time expressed that they didn’t want me to tell The Tor Project, later admitting they feared retaliation to be extremely likely, as well as difficult to combat.
Instead, I had planned to gather people for a secret meeting in Valencia, somewhere calm, neutral, and away from events, like on the beach, invite Jake, and have everyone willing who has ever been sexually assaulted, humiliated, harassed, or felt their boundaries disrespected, by him to take turns telling a few sentences about what he did to them and how it made them feel. Then we would tell Jake that, as his friends, we thought this needed to stop, and that we’d either deliver a list of the stories to The Tor Project and other organisations, or make all the stories public, if he refused to hold himself accountable for his actions or his behaviour did not appear to improve. In planning this secret meeting, I tried to determine what would cause Jake to perpetually disrespect other people like this, and if there were any positive things we could do to help him.
Somehow Jake got word of all this, and proceeded to go back and forth between everyone I knew, starting, it seems, with one of my roommates and a reporter acquaintance, to force information out of these people, including more names of more people involved (to force more information out of). He seemed to have put the whole story together from all the bits and pieces he was given. In between my efforts to get work done and give a lecture, he imposed on me that my ten minutes of coffee break time should be spent speaking with him, because it was An Emergency. During that rather one-sided conversation, Jake described all the time, effort, and ways he was using in order to completely ruin someone’s life who had attempted to stand up to him, as well as previous ways he had managed to get someone fired from their position and ostracised. He pointedly mentioned, several times, the names of multiple people who he had destroyed in the past for standing against him. In his current efforts to harass one of these people — which through backchannels I was already aware of, he said, “I’ve literally been spending 15 hours a day on this. […] I’ve been speaking with an investigative journalist team to make sure they don’t believe [that person]. […] I heard there was a plan to ‘Confront’ me in Valencia. If that happens, I probably will not take it very well…”
posted by zabuni at 12:13 PM on June 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
When I first started seeking out other victims, about six months ago, I did not want to formally report any of the stories I had heard from Jake’s victims to the Tor Project or others, for two primary reasons. First, that my main motivation in this was to ensure that these behaviours stopped, and it was not clear to me that any traditional punitive “justice” measures would achieve such. Second, I feared retaliation from Jake, as well as retaliation towards any of the victims whose stories I would divulge. Multiple victims at the time expressed that they didn’t want me to tell The Tor Project, later admitting they feared retaliation to be extremely likely, as well as difficult to combat.
Instead, I had planned to gather people for a secret meeting in Valencia, somewhere calm, neutral, and away from events, like on the beach, invite Jake, and have everyone willing who has ever been sexually assaulted, humiliated, harassed, or felt their boundaries disrespected, by him to take turns telling a few sentences about what he did to them and how it made them feel. Then we would tell Jake that, as his friends, we thought this needed to stop, and that we’d either deliver a list of the stories to The Tor Project and other organisations, or make all the stories public, if he refused to hold himself accountable for his actions or his behaviour did not appear to improve. In planning this secret meeting, I tried to determine what would cause Jake to perpetually disrespect other people like this, and if there were any positive things we could do to help him.
Somehow Jake got word of all this, and proceeded to go back and forth between everyone I knew, starting, it seems, with one of my roommates and a reporter acquaintance, to force information out of these people, including more names of more people involved (to force more information out of). He seemed to have put the whole story together from all the bits and pieces he was given. In between my efforts to get work done and give a lecture, he imposed on me that my ten minutes of coffee break time should be spent speaking with him, because it was An Emergency. During that rather one-sided conversation, Jake described all the time, effort, and ways he was using in order to completely ruin someone’s life who had attempted to stand up to him, as well as previous ways he had managed to get someone fired from their position and ostracised. He pointedly mentioned, several times, the names of multiple people who he had destroyed in the past for standing against him. In his current efforts to harass one of these people — which through backchannels I was already aware of, he said, “I’ve literally been spending 15 hours a day on this. […] I’ve been speaking with an investigative journalist team to make sure they don’t believe [that person]. […] I heard there was a plan to ‘Confront’ me in Valencia. If that happens, I probably will not take it very well…”
posted by zabuni at 12:13 PM on June 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
Isis had to leave the U.S. late last year herself, btw.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:20 PM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 1:20 PM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Jesus Christ, Isis/"Forest's" experience with him was way worse than I was aware of.
posted by gusandrews at 1:47 PM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by gusandrews at 1:47 PM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Alaska, or northern Siberia — it doesn’t matter. Until his sociopathic behaviours are revised, there is no place for him in civil society.
Um, not sure that Isis realizes that Alaska is full of perfectly nice members of civil society who'd rather not have a(nother) rapist exiled to live among them. It's not an Ice Waste.
posted by BungaDunga at 3:47 PM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Um, not sure that Isis realizes that Alaska is full of perfectly nice members of civil society who'd rather not have a(nother) rapist exiled to live among them. It's not an Ice Waste.
posted by BungaDunga at 3:47 PM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Violet Blue shares her personal experiences.
posted by humanfont at 7:22 PM on June 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 7:22 PM on June 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
I was at a party sometime in the last 3 years or so (probably just after 30c3) and talking to a friend of mine who is very involved in the copyright/open source/infosec scene. I mentioned how Jacob Appelbaum's addresses were keeping me enthused about infosec, and my friend kinda cringed. I asked what's up and couldn't get a straight answer as to why they didn't really care for Jake.
This news came out and when I saw my friend this past week, I brought up the 3-year-old conversation.
"Exactly. I've known some of those stories since before they were posted on that website."
We had a good talk about the missing stair phenomenon.
posted by onehalfjunco at 8:31 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
This news came out and when I saw my friend this past week, I brought up the 3-year-old conversation.
"Exactly. I've known some of those stories since before they were posted on that website."
We had a good talk about the missing stair phenomenon.
posted by onehalfjunco at 8:31 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Violet Blue's piece doriangreys Appelbaum thoroughly and more credibly than anything I've seen so far; the more of hers I read, the more impressed I am.
Parallels between Appelbaum's case and Assange's may make Wikileaks the most reluctant to cut ties with Appelbaum, yet if and when they do, and if Appelbaum happens to be not just an ass but an Asset, I think we'll see him drop out of sight.
posted by jamjam at 3:08 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Parallels between Appelbaum's case and Assange's may make Wikileaks the most reluctant to cut ties with Appelbaum, yet if and when they do, and if Appelbaum happens to be not just an ass but an Asset, I think we'll see him drop out of sight.
posted by jamjam at 3:08 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wonder if this incident changes anyone's mind about the charges against Assange. In Assange's defense I don't think there are numerous women and others making claims. Yet the length of time the Appelbaum stuff was apparently knowm, but not reported by lots of people who should know better makes me wonder.
posted by humanfont at 12:42 PM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by humanfont at 12:42 PM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Appelbaum's Debian developer status has been removed.
For me, the Appelbaum situation doesn't much change my view on the Assange case.
The primary goal of the prosecution and others in the Assange case has long seemed to be skewed hard toward the service of embarassed world governments rather than pursuit of justice for any non-state victim. It's possible Assange did assault those women, if he has a pattern of this sort of activity like Appelbaum does I wish more people would come forward so as to make it easier to understand (or if I've missed them could someone share a link?), the way the specific Sweden allegations have been handled though it's much too hard to differentiate from the other pre-existing desires to capture Assange.
With Appelbaum, assuming all that has been said is true (and it really does seem to be because some of the more credible folks I've chatted with over the years are corroborating) it is a troublesome case. Troublesome in part because these distant colleagues I trust somewhat, somehow, come to never mention these sorts of attributes about a person.
Aside from the sexual harassment angle, as a professional risk manager I look at the unhinged behaviour Violet Blue describes from early in his career and I would be terrified that he has an undiagnosed condition affecting his discretion. In my organization, I would want to see some indication he had changed his ways or sorted out whatever the cause was (possibly, he quits drinking or gets some sort of treatment) before endorsing him for future work.
I've known a person that disinhibited and sexually transgressive -- they had severe brain damage from a blunt force trauma -- I knew someone else who started acting out sexually in midlife and this was due to a brain tumor. If I was his colleague, friend or associate and he was doing these things I would have been imploring him to get with a psychiatrist or social worker at the very least and to possibly directly advising he see a neurologist if it was a sudden change and there was no other accounting for it.
How he gets from behaving like an untrained dog in heat as a grown-ass adult man in his twenties to having a notable public career in security six or seven years on without much change is just mind boggling to me! He seems to be a textbook case of a counterintelligence liability (if he can't restrain himself in all these various situations, how well do you suppose he can manage a secret?) Who and how were his personal references checked all along the way, did anyone ever spring for a background investigation?! But of course, I know, I come from a different culture and ethos than many of these folks.
Anyhow, I'm watching closely to see if Assange has any more to say on this subject or if he explicitly cuts ties. I don't think Appelbaum has had any formal ongoing relationship with Wikileaks so the form this may take is that he will never be mentioned again. Seeing as Freedom of The Freedom of the Press Foundation has cut ties, and CCC has cut ties (and they're closely associated with the Wau Holland Foundation) -- FPF and WHF handle donations for Wikileaks -- that support network is at least closing to Appelbaum. I've noticed with some interest that Sarah Harrison (Wikileaks volunteer who helped Snowden move about) is a signatory on Our Response but that Assange is not.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 10:54 AM on June 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
For me, the Appelbaum situation doesn't much change my view on the Assange case.
The primary goal of the prosecution and others in the Assange case has long seemed to be skewed hard toward the service of embarassed world governments rather than pursuit of justice for any non-state victim. It's possible Assange did assault those women, if he has a pattern of this sort of activity like Appelbaum does I wish more people would come forward so as to make it easier to understand (or if I've missed them could someone share a link?), the way the specific Sweden allegations have been handled though it's much too hard to differentiate from the other pre-existing desires to capture Assange.
With Appelbaum, assuming all that has been said is true (and it really does seem to be because some of the more credible folks I've chatted with over the years are corroborating) it is a troublesome case. Troublesome in part because these distant colleagues I trust somewhat, somehow, come to never mention these sorts of attributes about a person.
Aside from the sexual harassment angle, as a professional risk manager I look at the unhinged behaviour Violet Blue describes from early in his career and I would be terrified that he has an undiagnosed condition affecting his discretion. In my organization, I would want to see some indication he had changed his ways or sorted out whatever the cause was (possibly, he quits drinking or gets some sort of treatment) before endorsing him for future work.
I've known a person that disinhibited and sexually transgressive -- they had severe brain damage from a blunt force trauma -- I knew someone else who started acting out sexually in midlife and this was due to a brain tumor. If I was his colleague, friend or associate and he was doing these things I would have been imploring him to get with a psychiatrist or social worker at the very least and to possibly directly advising he see a neurologist if it was a sudden change and there was no other accounting for it.
How he gets from behaving like an untrained dog in heat as a grown-ass adult man in his twenties to having a notable public career in security six or seven years on without much change is just mind boggling to me! He seems to be a textbook case of a counterintelligence liability (if he can't restrain himself in all these various situations, how well do you suppose he can manage a secret?) Who and how were his personal references checked all along the way, did anyone ever spring for a background investigation?! But of course, I know, I come from a different culture and ethos than many of these folks.
Anyhow, I'm watching closely to see if Assange has any more to say on this subject or if he explicitly cuts ties. I don't think Appelbaum has had any formal ongoing relationship with Wikileaks so the form this may take is that he will never be mentioned again. Seeing as Freedom of The Freedom of the Press Foundation has cut ties, and CCC has cut ties (and they're closely associated with the Wau Holland Foundation) -- FPF and WHF handle donations for Wikileaks -- that support network is at least closing to Appelbaum. I've noticed with some interest that Sarah Harrison (Wikileaks volunteer who helped Snowden move about) is a signatory on Our Response but that Assange is not.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 10:54 AM on June 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Matt Oneiros - Women tend to keep their whisper networks limited to other women, because men frequently FLIP THEIR SHIT when they become aware that there's a Secret List. So yeah, being a guy would put you at a disadvantage for receiving that info (although of course there were plenty of men around at some of these incidents who could've spoken up at any time.)
Tangentially worth noting, perhaps, is that i'm in an entirely different segment of the tech industry, in a Midwestern city, and have literally never hung out with any of these people or in any of those social circles - and even i had heard quiet rumors about Appelbaum being someone to beware of, going back a few years at least.
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:06 PM on June 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Tangentially worth noting, perhaps, is that i'm in an entirely different segment of the tech industry, in a Midwestern city, and have literally never hung out with any of these people or in any of those social circles - and even i had heard quiet rumors about Appelbaum being someone to beware of, going back a few years at least.
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:06 PM on June 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I've never seen or met any of these people in person. A few would quite likely know me by an alias.
Funny thing is, I heard the whispers just not at any sort of useful level. Several times, I've seen folks saying things, or directing remarks to me, along the lines of "there are some bad people in group X" or "I don't trust anyone involved in project Y, that group supports abusers" but never more -- I've had men make these allusions about the Tor project in particular, in face to face conversation with me, and then refuse to elaborate -- what does that do other than foster paranoia? One can say that of most any group and there is quite possibly an element of truth to support both statements given the unfortunate nature of the world. Without concrete information, I have to filter it, without something actionable there are too many other hazards to be concerned with -- failure to filter leads to certain sicknesses.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 4:41 PM on June 20, 2016
Funny thing is, I heard the whispers just not at any sort of useful level. Several times, I've seen folks saying things, or directing remarks to me, along the lines of "there are some bad people in group X" or "I don't trust anyone involved in project Y, that group supports abusers" but never more -- I've had men make these allusions about the Tor project in particular, in face to face conversation with me, and then refuse to elaborate -- what does that do other than foster paranoia? One can say that of most any group and there is quite possibly an element of truth to support both statements given the unfortunate nature of the world. Without concrete information, I have to filter it, without something actionable there are too many other hazards to be concerned with -- failure to filter leads to certain sicknesses.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 4:41 PM on June 20, 2016
c3 says ioierror is not welcome
Well, there's no official statement yet and I'm not sure there will be one, but I'm certain he won't be welcome at SHA2017 either.
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:55 AM on June 22, 2016
Well, there's no official statement yet and I'm not sure there will be one, but I'm certain he won't be welcome at SHA2017 either.
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:55 AM on June 22, 2016
“It's possible Assange did assault those women, if he has a pattern of this sort of activity like Appelbaum does I wish more people would come forward so as to make it easier to understand (or if I've missed them could someone share a link?), the way the specific Sweden allegations have been handled though it's much too hard to differentiate from the other pre-existing desires to capture Assange.”
And therein lies the problem. Being acquainted with people closely involved with Wikileaks at a high level and once removed from Appelbaum himself through a number long-standing friends, it’s been my observation since way back when that the hacker community’s tolerance of rampaging egos and uncritical hero worship has made it far too easy for abusive conduct to go unchallenged. It’s not all about sex either - this was likely a root cause of Wikileaks’ “structural problems” that caused the schism with Daniel Domscheit-Berg.
I can’t consider this case without also considering Assange. I think it’s unlikely he’s an abuser on the same scale as Appelbaum, but I fully expect that the Swedish cases are part of a larger pattern of entitled behaviour and casual misogyny, because they are entirely consistent with my experience with other alpha males in the group. Appelbaum is a perfect storm in this global teacup, a monster that the hothouse would ultimately breed if left unchecked. He’s a damaged and extremely dangerous product of something that’s been going on for a very long time.
Leigh’s just published another brilliant article on the matter, written in collaboration with Valerie Aurora and Mary Gardiner. In it, they address the some of the conditions that created this toxic environment. In retrospect, I recognise many of the problems the authors describe, and their proposal reads like a template for good progressive leadership.
No More Rock Stars
posted by Elizabeth the Thirteenth at 4:54 AM on June 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
And therein lies the problem. Being acquainted with people closely involved with Wikileaks at a high level and once removed from Appelbaum himself through a number long-standing friends, it’s been my observation since way back when that the hacker community’s tolerance of rampaging egos and uncritical hero worship has made it far too easy for abusive conduct to go unchallenged. It’s not all about sex either - this was likely a root cause of Wikileaks’ “structural problems” that caused the schism with Daniel Domscheit-Berg.
I can’t consider this case without also considering Assange. I think it’s unlikely he’s an abuser on the same scale as Appelbaum, but I fully expect that the Swedish cases are part of a larger pattern of entitled behaviour and casual misogyny, because they are entirely consistent with my experience with other alpha males in the group. Appelbaum is a perfect storm in this global teacup, a monster that the hothouse would ultimately breed if left unchecked. He’s a damaged and extremely dangerous product of something that’s been going on for a very long time.
Leigh’s just published another brilliant article on the matter, written in collaboration with Valerie Aurora and Mary Gardiner. In it, they address the some of the conditions that created this toxic environment. In retrospect, I recognise many of the problems the authors describe, and their proposal reads like a template for good progressive leadership.
No More Rock Stars
Over more than a decade of studying reports of harassment and assault in tech communities, we’ve noticed a trend: if things have gotten to the point where you’ve heard about an incident, it’s almost always just the tip of the iceberg. People argue a lot about whether to take one person’s word (the alleged victim) over another’s (the alleged harasser), but surprisingly often, this was not the first time the harasser did something harmful and it’s more likely a “one person said, a dozen other people said” situation. Think about it: what are the chances that someone had a perfect record of behavior, right up till the instant they stuck their hand in someone else’s underwear without consent – and that person actually complained about it – AND you heard about it? It’s far more likely that this person has been gradually ramping up their bad behavior for years and you just haven’t heard about it till now.On preview, Too-Ticky, I hope you're right. I fear he may still have some supporters around here though.
posted by Elizabeth the Thirteenth at 4:54 AM on June 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
It's what I've heard from several folks on team Content.
That piece by Leigh is indeed brilliant, thanks for posting that!
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:22 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
That piece by Leigh is indeed brilliant, thanks for posting that!
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:22 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
No More Rock Stars should be required reading for *every* organization. So much incredibly valuable stuff in there.
posted by gusandrews at 10:40 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by gusandrews at 10:40 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Additional coverage:
- June 4: Jack Smith IV at Mic: “Jacob Appelbaum, Digital Rights Activist, Leaves Tor Amid Sexual Misconduct Allegations”
- June 5: Cyrus Farivar at Ars Technica:
“Tor developer Jacob Appelbaum quits after ‘sexual mistreatment’ allegations [Updated]
- June 5: Statement from The Cult of the Dead Cow
- June 6: Andy Greenberg at WIRED: “Tor Developer Jacob Appelbaum Resigns Amid Sex Abuse Claims”
- June 6: Cyrus Farivar at Ars Technica:
“Breaking silence, ex-Tor developer decries ‘vicious and spurious allegations’”
- June 6: Cory Doctorow at Boing Boing: “Jacob Appelbaum, Tor developer and Wikileaks staffer, resigns amid sex abuse claims”
- June 6: Danny Yadron at The Guardian: “Digital privacy activist Jacob Appelbaum denies colleagues' assault allegations”
Meanwhile, if you’d like to read allegations from the horses’ mouths, you can go to (the rather crappy site at) jacobappelbaum.net or browse Andrea Shephard’s tweets (though they are by no means solely about this one issue).posted by Going To Maine at 5:30 PM on June 7, 2016 [8 favorites]