The Trump administration dons a tinfoil hat
March 13, 2017 7:15 PM Subscribe
A Washington Post Op-Ed today states: It’s hardly just coincidence that the Trump executive branch is rife with beliefs that are wholly disconnected from reality. The Congressional Budget Office today projected that 24 million Americans will lose health insurance in 10 years. And a late-breaking Politico scoop: the executive branch analysis forecast that 26 million people would lose coverage over the next decade,.
Meanwhile, "[Customs & Border Patrol] has requested approval to ease its stringent hiring standards, which include background investigations and polygraph exams mandated by Congress in 2010 after the misconduct allegations came to light."
NYPost: Here’s President Trump’s report card after 50 days in office
Trump is headed back to Mar-a-Lago this weekend. He will host Chinese President Xi Jinping there the first weekend of April.
Meanwhile, "[Customs & Border Patrol] has requested approval to ease its stringent hiring standards, which include background investigations and polygraph exams mandated by Congress in 2010 after the misconduct allegations came to light."
NYPost: Here’s President Trump’s report card after 50 days in office
Trump is headed back to Mar-a-Lago this weekend. He will host Chinese President Xi Jinping there the first weekend of April.
I can't wait to ask my lifelong Republican voting family members what they think of their plans to raise premiums for 64 year olds by 700%. Sadly they're probably in that camp who don't think it goes far enough to be called a blanket repeal and they're mad.
posted by msbutah at 7:27 PM on March 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by msbutah at 7:27 PM on March 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
Just a reminder that while Trump might ignorantly affix his signature to this garbage fire, he probably can't even spell "health care reform," much less understand or care how it works. He's Grover Norquist's ideal warm body "with enough working digits to handle a pen," and maybe provide some welcome distractions.
The calculated cruelty of this legislation is 100% the brainchild of Paul Ryan and the rest of the Republican congressional leadership, and pass or fail they need to be held most responsible for it in 2018.
posted by Rhaomi at 7:28 PM on March 13, 2017 [60 favorites]
The calculated cruelty of this legislation is 100% the brainchild of Paul Ryan and the rest of the Republican congressional leadership, and pass or fail they need to be held most responsible for it in 2018.
posted by Rhaomi at 7:28 PM on March 13, 2017 [60 favorites]
Well guys, we've made it through 50-something days of the greatest daily odds of nuclear annihilation since Reagan's first term and maybe since '62. Now we only need to keep it up for oh christ
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:31 PM on March 13, 2017 [85 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:31 PM on March 13, 2017 [85 favorites]
"and pass or fail they need to be held most responsible for it in 2018"
I've recently lost any conviction that we're going to make it to 2018.
posted by sutt at 7:31 PM on March 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
I've recently lost any conviction that we're going to make it to 2018.
posted by sutt at 7:31 PM on March 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
V.P. Pence showcases laments of "small businessman victim of Obamacare" who turns out to be another noted right-wing asshole.
Paging Joe the Plumber! Joe the Plumber to the white courtesy phone! Someone is stealing your bit!
posted by darkstar at 7:32 PM on March 13, 2017 [53 favorites]
Paging Joe the Plumber! Joe the Plumber to the white courtesy phone! Someone is stealing your bit!
posted by darkstar at 7:32 PM on March 13, 2017 [53 favorites]
"The American Wealthcare Act, in its majestic equality, allows the rich as well as the poor to save money on their capital gains taxes, to pay in cash for chemotherapy treatments, and to buy a private island far away from the diseased deplorables who voted for this shit thinking it wouldn't affect them or anyone care about." [fake]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:35 PM on March 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:35 PM on March 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
So, looks like the Executive Branch re-org EO was a dud.
posted by rhizome at 7:35 PM on March 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 7:35 PM on March 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
People gave Grayson such shit for it, but their plan really is "If you get sick, die quickly."
Though not even he said "Oh, and give billionaires a massive tax cut while you're at it."
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 7:36 PM on March 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Though not even he said "Oh, and give billionaires a massive tax cut while you're at it."
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 7:36 PM on March 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
My litmus test for taking things an easy day-at-a-time right now is:
[ x ] I did not die in a purging nuclear fire today.
posted by mrdaneri at 7:36 PM on March 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
[ x ] I did not die in a purging nuclear fire today.
posted by mrdaneri at 7:36 PM on March 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
This is all fucking fucked, and fucks the fuck out of all the fucks in fuckville, fucktown, fuckopolis, fuck city and fucked county.
posted by vrakatar at 7:36 PM on March 13, 2017 [123 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 7:36 PM on March 13, 2017 [123 favorites]
NYPost: Here’s President Trump’s report card after 50 days in office
Well that's some evidence-free Kellyanne grade bullshit:
On Subject No. 2, whether he is delivering results, Trump gets a B. From the moment of the election, he eyed low-hanging fruit he could pick through executive orders, which he issued right out of the gate. Those changes already show impressive gains.
[citation needed]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 PM on March 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
Well that's some evidence-free Kellyanne grade bullshit:
On Subject No. 2, whether he is delivering results, Trump gets a B. From the moment of the election, he eyed low-hanging fruit he could pick through executive orders, which he issued right out of the gate. Those changes already show impressive gains.
[citation needed]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 PM on March 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
It really is.
posted by rhizome at 7:38 PM on March 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 7:38 PM on March 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Guys I am unable to be witty or articulate regarding healthcare ragnarock, so I went on twitter and responded to Paul Ryan by calling him a shitbagel. It's not much but it's all I have to give today.
posted by supercrayon at 7:39 PM on March 13, 2017 [96 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 7:39 PM on March 13, 2017 [96 favorites]
A little context for the Jinping visit:
posted by jaduncan at 7:39 PM on March 13, 2017 [68 favorites]
China, unusually due to the handing of names in PRC trademark law, provisionally grants Trump 38 trademarks on his surname.Obviously both articles feature unhappy ethics lawyers, because of course. Do I think anything will happen? No. Really, it's impressive to me how fast my trust in institutions can erode.
"Ethics lawyers across the political spectrum say that if Trump receives any special treatment in securing trademark rights, it would violate the US constitution, which bans public servants from accepting anything of value from foreign governments unless approved by Congress. Concerns about potential conflicts of interest are particularly sharp in China, where the courts and bureaucracy are designed to reflect the will of the ruling Communist party.
Dan Plane, a director at Simone IP Services, a Hong Kong intellectual property consultancy, said he had never seen so many applications approved so expeditiously.
“For all these marks to sail through so quickly and cleanly, with no similar marks, no identical marks, no issues with specifications – boy, it’s weird,” he said."
Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner make $400 million as a Chinese company buy a large stake in 666 Fifth Avenue
"The planned $4-billion transaction includes terms that some real estate experts consider unusually favorable for the Kushners. It provides them with both a sizable cash payout from Anbang Insurance Group for a property that has struggled financially and an equity stake in a new partnership.
[...]
Also at issue: as-of-yet undisclosed lenders who are financing the project and the forgiveness of a portion of a $250 million loan which will allow the debt to be cleared for one-fifth of its value."
posted by jaduncan at 7:39 PM on March 13, 2017 [68 favorites]
Report cards are not a thing with value in this situation. Our President had to be shipped off to military school, it's not something with power.
posted by rhizome at 7:39 PM on March 13, 2017
posted by rhizome at 7:39 PM on March 13, 2017
Someone proposed that the best name for the health care thing is the Republican Insurance Program or R.I.P. for short. That may be a keeper.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:42 PM on March 13, 2017 [150 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:42 PM on March 13, 2017 [150 favorites]
This is all fucking fucked, and fucks the fuck out of all the fucks in fuckville, fucktown, fuckopolis, fuck city and fucked county.
Why don't you tell us how you really feel, vrakatar?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 7:43 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Why don't you tell us how you really feel, vrakatar?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 7:43 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Breitbart front page attacking Paul Ryan for stripping health insurance from 24M people, using CBO numbers.
I really don't understand the rhetoric from the far right on this, some groups hate Trumpcare for not being full repeal, but they're also using tactics from the left citing the number of uninsured? What?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:45 PM on March 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
I really don't understand the rhetoric from the far right on this, some groups hate Trumpcare for not being full repeal, but they're also using tactics from the left citing the number of uninsured? What?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:45 PM on March 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
You have to look at it from a white nationalist perspective. Of those 24M people, most of them will be white. They wanted health care taken away from black and brown people only--white people should get better and cheaper health care.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:47 PM on March 13, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:47 PM on March 13, 2017 [54 favorites]
I really don't understand the rhetoric from the far right on this, some groups hate Trumpcare for not being full repeal, but they're also using tactics from the left citing the number of uninsured? What?
The number is too low for them.
posted by jferg at 7:48 PM on March 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
The number is too low for them.
posted by jferg at 7:48 PM on March 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I really don't understand the rhetoric from the far right on this, some groups hate Trumpcare for not being full repeal, but they're also using tactics from the left citing the number of uninsured? What?
Right wing populism is often economically socialist. After all, if it wasn't for all the brown people taking benefits, we could look after God's own real/white Americans.* That isn't the bit that surprises me, it's more the fact that either Bannon doesn't like the healthcare bill or Breitbart is willing to smack Bannon's administration around.
* not my argument or something I agree with, obviously.
posted by jaduncan at 7:49 PM on March 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Right wing populism is often economically socialist. After all, if it wasn't for all the brown people taking benefits, we could look after God's own real/white Americans.* That isn't the bit that surprises me, it's more the fact that either Bannon doesn't like the healthcare bill or Breitbart is willing to smack Bannon's administration around.
* not my argument or something I agree with, obviously.
posted by jaduncan at 7:49 PM on March 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Mod note: Friendly reminder, please don't use the edit function to add or change content. Thanks.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:50 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:50 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's not about the bill. It's about attacking Ryan, who is not One Of Them and won't let the Louie Gohmerts of the world dictate legislation in full.
posted by delfin at 7:50 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by delfin at 7:50 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ok I reached deep and also called Steve King a racist fuck-knuckle. Now I really am tapped. That's all I got.
posted by supercrayon at 7:52 PM on March 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 7:52 PM on March 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
At this point, I cannot see any way that TrumpCare/R.I.P. gets passed through both houses of Congress.
Of course, my utter shock on election night last November is a painful reminder that there are still more things in heaven and earthly politics than are dreamt of in my philosophy, so...
posted by darkstar at 7:53 PM on March 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
Of course, my utter shock on election night last November is a painful reminder that there are still more things in heaven and earthly politics than are dreamt of in my philosophy, so...
posted by darkstar at 7:53 PM on March 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
There was a question in the last thread about whether the executive order on reorganizing the executive branch happened. It did. But it's mostly an order that says there should be a plan in the future.
The best part is this section:
posted by zachlipton at 7:53 PM on March 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
The best part is this section:
(b) The Director shall publish a notice in the Federal Register inviting the public to suggest improvements in the organization and functioning of the executive branch and shall consider the suggestions when formulating the proposed plan described in subsection (c) of this section.In other words, we all get to make suggestions for how the executive branch should be improved, and the OMB Director "shall" consider them. I can think of a few suggestions involving the guy at the top of said branch. Maybe we can all suggest cutting costs by not jetting off to Florida every other weekend and divesting himself of Trump Tower so we don't have to pay to secure it. Or docking Spicey's pay every time he lies. I'm sure there are all sorts of other great suggestions we can provide. Can't wait.
posted by zachlipton at 7:53 PM on March 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
It's painfully clear that most Republicans don't look at 24,000,000 uninsured people as a disaster and a failure of basic civilization. They'd say those people are uninsured because of their own bad decisions and it's a good thing the uninsured are not pushing up the costs of the insured.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:54 PM on March 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:54 PM on March 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Ok I reached deep and also called Steve King a racist fuck-knuckle. Now I really am tapped. That's all I got.
Are you asking for suggestions because I have plenty.
posted by futz at 7:56 PM on March 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
Are you asking for suggestions because I have plenty.
posted by futz at 7:56 PM on March 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
Someone proposed that the best name for the health care thing is the Republican Insurance Program or R.I.P. for short.
I really like tonycpsu's version -- "the American Wealthcare Act"
posted by msalt at 7:57 PM on March 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
I really like tonycpsu's version -- "the American Wealthcare Act"
posted by msalt at 7:57 PM on March 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
That EO reorg of the Executive Branch is the same non-answer as the ISIS plan: "I have a great idea but you go first and we'll see whether we got different answers."
It's like every shitty group project at work or "correct the quiz of the person across from you" where the fakers and lamers scam a chance to take someone else's work as their own.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:00 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's like every shitty group project at work or "correct the quiz of the person across from you" where the fakers and lamers scam a chance to take someone else's work as their own.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:00 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump might ignorantly affix his signature to this garbage fire
If the current bill gets to his desk, he won't sign it. Well, I suppose if it were a choice between that and getting impeached, it's just possible he would. But if this bill is implemented, he's a one- term president.
posted by Coventry at 8:01 PM on March 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
If the current bill gets to his desk, he won't sign it. Well, I suppose if it were a choice between that and getting impeached, it's just possible he would. But if this bill is implemented, he's a one- term president.
posted by Coventry at 8:01 PM on March 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I hate to be pedantic, but shouldn't we call the healthcare bill by its official name, The World's Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017?
posted by TedW at 8:02 PM on March 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by TedW at 8:02 PM on March 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
If the current bill gets to his desk he won't sign it.
Uh, why the hell not? He's out whipping for it. He doesn't care/understand about the consequences, they want a "win" for "replacing" Obamacare with "something great", and Trump is incapable of coming up with anything on his own. So this is all he's got. He'll absolutely sign this, and literally everything else put on his desk.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:03 PM on March 13, 2017 [40 favorites]
Uh, why the hell not? He's out whipping for it. He doesn't care/understand about the consequences, they want a "win" for "replacing" Obamacare with "something great", and Trump is incapable of coming up with anything on his own. So this is all he's got. He'll absolutely sign this, and literally everything else put on his desk.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:03 PM on March 13, 2017 [40 favorites]
If the current bill gets to his desk, he won't sign it.
I'm a pretty grim person these days but that made me crack a genuine smile
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:04 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm a pretty grim person these days but that made me crack a genuine smile
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:04 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
*rubs America's back*
Shhh. Shhh.
No, seriously, I don't know what the fuck else to do with this.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:04 PM on March 13, 2017 [47 favorites]
Shhh. Shhh.
No, seriously, I don't know what the fuck else to do with this.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:04 PM on March 13, 2017 [47 favorites]
Please let TedW be kidding... Please let TedW be kidding... nope!
posted by mrdaneri at 8:05 PM on March 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mrdaneri at 8:05 PM on March 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
A little context for the Jinping visit:
Given that the likely quid-pro-quo is that Trump not blunder us into a war with China, at Russia's behest, I'm okay with this.
posted by ocschwar at 8:05 PM on March 13, 2017
Given that the likely quid-pro-quo is that Trump not blunder us into a war with China, at Russia's behest, I'm okay with this.
posted by ocschwar at 8:05 PM on March 13, 2017
The only reorg of the Executive Branch I am willing to consider is if they all resign and put an adult in charge. Or a ham sandwich. I bet there are some vintage ham sandwiches out there who are better at Twitter and have some good ideas.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:06 PM on March 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:06 PM on March 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
How about that one old Twinkie under a bell jar?
posted by wenestvedt at 8:07 PM on March 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 8:07 PM on March 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Given that the likely quid-pro-quo is that Trump not blunder us into a war with China, at Russia's behest, I'm okay with this.
The classic mob protection racket? Sure, but I understand that the US once held itself to higher standards.
posted by jaduncan at 8:09 PM on March 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
The classic mob protection racket? Sure, but I understand that the US once held itself to higher standards.
posted by jaduncan at 8:09 PM on March 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Want to know how much Breitbart is at war with Paul Ryan? They just published audio of Ryan's conference call from October 10 after the pussy tape came out (it's an archive link). Here's a direct link to the audio on YouTube. It links this to the healthcare bill and is a direct attack on Ryan's leadership:
posted by zachlipton at 8:10 PM on March 13, 2017 [66 favorites]
“I am not going to defend Donald Trump—not now, not in the future,” Ryan says in the audio, obtained by Breitbart News and published here for the first time ever.Ryan is on tape telling his members to decide what is best for them, insofar as supporting Trump goes, but makes it clear he's not doing that, saying simply that he'll just focus on keeping Congress so as not to give "Hillary Clinton a blank check in Congress":
Now, Ryan—still the Speaker—has pushed now President Donald Trump to believe his healthcare legislation the American Health Care Act would repeal and replace Obamacare when it does not repeal Obamacare. Ryan has also, according to Trump ally Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), misled President Trump into believing that Ryan’s bill can pass Congress. Paul and others believe the bill is dead on arrival in the U.S. Senate since a number of GOP senators have come out against it and there are serious questions about whether it can pass the House. This is the first major initiative that Trump has worked on with Ryan—and the fact it is going so poorly begs the question as to whether Speaker Ryan, the GOP’s failed 2012 vice presidential nominee who barely supported Trump at all in 2016, really understands how Trump won and how to win in general
“His comments are not anywhere in keeping with our party’s principles and values,” Ryan said. “There are basically two things that I want to make really clear, as for myself as your Speaker. I am not going to defend Donald Trump—not now, not in the future. As you probably heard, I disinvited him from my first congressional district GOP event this weekend—a thing I do every year. And I’m not going to be campaigning with him over the next 30 days.”This is war.
posted by zachlipton at 8:10 PM on March 13, 2017 [66 favorites]
If the current bill gets to his desk, he won't sign it
Of course he'll sign it! I can't believe you'd think otherwise.
posted by Justinian at 8:11 PM on March 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Of course he'll sign it! I can't believe you'd think otherwise.
posted by Justinian at 8:11 PM on March 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
The fact that Breitbart is slamming Paul Ryan and the R.I.P. is pretty great, actually. I get to rub my Republican family's noses in something they won't immediately dismiss as "fake news"
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:12 PM on March 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:12 PM on March 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm really confused about where Breitbart stands with respect to the Trump administration. Does this mean that Bannon is at war with Ryan, or has Breitbart somehow gone rogue?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:12 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:12 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Spicer says you can trust what the president says "if he's not joking."
Well, I guess it's now obligatory to find out whether the president is joking. I look forward to seeing the press respond to literally every statement coming out of the administration with the question, "earlier today, President Trump made remarks about [horrible thing]. Is that supposed to be some kind of joke? Does the President think [horrible thing] is funny?"
posted by dirge at 8:13 PM on March 13, 2017 [37 favorites]
Well, I guess it's now obligatory to find out whether the president is joking. I look forward to seeing the press respond to literally every statement coming out of the administration with the question, "earlier today, President Trump made remarks about [horrible thing]. Is that supposed to be some kind of joke? Does the President think [horrible thing] is funny?"
posted by dirge at 8:13 PM on March 13, 2017 [37 favorites]
I hate to be pedantic, but shouldn't we call the healthcare bill by its official name, The World's Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017?
I really hate to be pedantic, but that's a different bill, not the one that's advancing or that the CBO just scored. (The World's Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017 is also awful, but going nowhere.)
Anyway, war. How long has Breitbart been sitting on this tape waiting for just the right moment to attack? Probably since October 10th.
posted by zachlipton at 8:13 PM on March 13, 2017 [31 favorites]
I really hate to be pedantic, but that's a different bill, not the one that's advancing or that the CBO just scored. (The World's Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017 is also awful, but going nowhere.)
Anyway, war. How long has Breitbart been sitting on this tape waiting for just the right moment to attack? Probably since October 10th.
posted by zachlipton at 8:13 PM on March 13, 2017 [31 favorites]
I'm really confused about where Breitbart stands with respect to the Trump administration. Does this mean that Bannon is at war with Ryan, or has Breitbart somehow gone rogue?
Bannon has always been at war with Ryan. He hates establishment Rs as much as liberals.
posted by Talez at 8:14 PM on March 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Bannon has always been at war with Ryan. He hates establishment Rs as much as liberals.
posted by Talez at 8:14 PM on March 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Maybe you guys would go through less of these threads if you thought of your posts in terms of how many Iphones they cost
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:14 PM on March 13, 2017 [57 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:14 PM on March 13, 2017 [57 favorites]
Paging Joe the Plumber!
I was thinking about Joe the Plumber today for the first time in years when wondering how it is these white conservatives can watch everyones livelihoods being stripped away and sold out to the wealthy and still support these kind of policies. I remember Obama thoughtfully and sincerely trying to explain wealth distribution to the guy.
Like, what has to happen for you to see that it's a pyramid scheme? How much do you have to lose?
Now that we have elected the ultimate pyramid schemer, maybe we will find out.
posted by angrybear at 8:15 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was thinking about Joe the Plumber today for the first time in years when wondering how it is these white conservatives can watch everyones livelihoods being stripped away and sold out to the wealthy and still support these kind of policies. I remember Obama thoughtfully and sincerely trying to explain wealth distribution to the guy.
Like, what has to happen for you to see that it's a pyramid scheme? How much do you have to lose?
Now that we have elected the ultimate pyramid schemer, maybe we will find out.
posted by angrybear at 8:15 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Of course he'll sign it. Of all the business he's been in, Trump's never been in the business of delivering on his promises. He'll sign any piece of shit the republicans put in front of him, then go lie about it, what's in it, and what it does. You're talking about a man who would start the negotiation with "The sky is green" and move on to call pissing on a bed you once slept on a win, because he won't even keep the same fucking metaphor.
posted by mrgoat at 8:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by mrgoat at 8:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
That is brutal. Two independent analyses, one non-partisan, one Republican-controlled but staffed by professionals, reach the same conclusion. (Here's Krugman on these issues. )
One point I constantly make I feel is confirmed: Professional civil servants will provide a break on Trump for at least a couple years. There will be much damage but if enough energy, intelligence and luck are available for the midterms we might avoid catastrophe.
A second point, less happy, I expect to be confirmed: The press, including the "liberal" NYT and NPR, will respond by making the CBO and White House projections part of the "Democratic side" and go wherever they need to to get the "Republican side" and give it roughly equal weighting. The occasional comment in a news story referring to the CBO as non-partisan or something will be pointed to if you complain and reporters and editors will continue.
Put another way, the important point--which side is correct--will be communicated in code to those who know how to read between the lines while the misinformation will be given in plain-spoken, direct language.
posted by mark k at 8:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [44 favorites]
One point I constantly make I feel is confirmed: Professional civil servants will provide a break on Trump for at least a couple years. There will be much damage but if enough energy, intelligence and luck are available for the midterms we might avoid catastrophe.
A second point, less happy, I expect to be confirmed: The press, including the "liberal" NYT and NPR, will respond by making the CBO and White House projections part of the "Democratic side" and go wherever they need to to get the "Republican side" and give it roughly equal weighting. The occasional comment in a news story referring to the CBO as non-partisan or something will be pointed to if you complain and reporters and editors will continue.
Put another way, the important point--which side is correct--will be communicated in code to those who know how to read between the lines while the misinformation will be given in plain-spoken, direct language.
posted by mark k at 8:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [44 favorites]
I was thinking about Joe the Plumber today for the first time in years when wondering how it is these white conservatives can watch everyones livelihoods being stripped away and sold out to the wealthy and still support these kind of policies. I remember Obama thoughtfully and sincerely trying to explain wealth distribution to the guy.
Like, what has to happen for you to see that it a pyramid scheme? How much do you have to lose?
Seriously? Have you been asleep for the past fifty years? So long as the black guy and the Mexican get fucked more they're 100% ok with it.
posted by Talez at 8:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Like, what has to happen for you to see that it a pyramid scheme? How much do you have to lose?
Seriously? Have you been asleep for the past fifty years? So long as the black guy and the Mexican get fucked more they're 100% ok with it.
posted by Talez at 8:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Serious Q: who doesn't Bannon hate? Does he have any positive goals?
posted by wenestvedt at 8:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 8:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
So it's looking like the playbook on this one is:
posted by Freon at 8:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
- Bannon has Breitbart distance itself a little from him with a couple critical pieces
- Breitbart puts the hit on AHCA
- Breitbart pins the AHCA on Ryan
- Breitbart paints it as Ryan undermining the Trump Administration deliberately with bad legislation
posted by Freon at 8:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Serious Q: who doesn't Bannon hate? Does he have any positive goals?
His "positive" goal is the restoration of Father Knows Best America™. Male dominated, white dominated, capitalist dominated.
posted by Talez at 8:19 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
His "positive" goal is the restoration of Father Knows Best America™. Male dominated, white dominated, capitalist dominated.
posted by Talez at 8:19 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Does this mean that Bannon is at war with Ryan, or has Breitbart somehow gone rogue?
I think that from the White House/Nixonian perspective, everybody is an enemy. Especially people who are nominally within your party but are not part of the inner circle. They're the ones who can hurt you the most. Ryan will take credit for anything Trump accomplishes legislatively and his criticisms are always going to be the most damaging.
But, the White House doesn't really seem to care about legislative accomplishments, so Ryan's position is weakened in that respect. And Ryan's going to be a convenient scapegoat whose failure explains the lack of Trumpian accomplishments. So the more Trump discredits Ryan, the less Ryan can hurt him, and the better Trump will end up looking. Also, they're basically just a lot of really nasty people; I honestly think they'd put the boot in for the hell of it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:23 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think that from the White House/Nixonian perspective, everybody is an enemy. Especially people who are nominally within your party but are not part of the inner circle. They're the ones who can hurt you the most. Ryan will take credit for anything Trump accomplishes legislatively and his criticisms are always going to be the most damaging.
But, the White House doesn't really seem to care about legislative accomplishments, so Ryan's position is weakened in that respect. And Ryan's going to be a convenient scapegoat whose failure explains the lack of Trumpian accomplishments. So the more Trump discredits Ryan, the less Ryan can hurt him, and the better Trump will end up looking. Also, they're basically just a lot of really nasty people; I honestly think they'd put the boot in for the hell of it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:23 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
wondering how it is these white conservatives can watch everyones livelihoods being stripped away and sold out to the wealthy and still support these kind of policies
Ronald Wright (often incorrectly attributed to Steinbeck):
Ronald Wright (often incorrectly attributed to Steinbeck):
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."posted by fedward at 8:24 PM on March 13, 2017 [74 favorites]
It's a clown car administration and Bozo in Chief is behind the wheel. Pray he doesn't drive us over a cliff...
posted by jim in austin at 8:24 PM on March 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jim in austin at 8:24 PM on March 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Whatever little expectations Priebus had for his unholy alliance with Bannon and Trump, I'm reasonably sure they didn't involve declaring war on Paul Ryan and demanding his ouster.
posted by zachlipton at 8:25 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:25 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
The American Wealthcare Act
...
Someone proposed that the best name for the health care thing is the Republican Insurance Program or R.I.P. for short
...
I cannot see any way that TrumpCare/R.I.P. gets passed
...
I really like tonycpsu's version -- "the American Wealthcare Act"
if only we find the right stupid name for it, liberals will finally win the politics forever
posted by indubitable at 8:27 PM on March 13, 2017 [56 favorites]
...
Someone proposed that the best name for the health care thing is the Republican Insurance Program or R.I.P. for short
...
I cannot see any way that TrumpCare/R.I.P. gets passed
...
I really like tonycpsu's version -- "the American Wealthcare Act"
if only we find the right stupid name for it, liberals will finally win the politics forever
posted by indubitable at 8:27 PM on March 13, 2017 [56 favorites]
So just imagine for one brief shining moment that Paul Ryan attacks back by leaking the piss tape, which he's had all along.
posted by zachlipton at 8:31 PM on March 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:31 PM on March 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
The Chinese stuff is telling because it suggests that Beijing's approach for the moment is to ride things out by buying the bastards off.
Again: the world is not short of corrupt family dictatorships. Other countries in the world have a playbook for corrupt family dictatorships. The US has a playbook for corrupt family dictatorships that need to be kept on side (see: Saudi Arabia). It's disgusting to watch from the inside, of course, but given current circumstances, other countries will act in their own best interests, especially ones where the institutions in charge plan on staying there for a while.
posted by holgate at 8:33 PM on March 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
Again: the world is not short of corrupt family dictatorships. Other countries in the world have a playbook for corrupt family dictatorships. The US has a playbook for corrupt family dictatorships that need to be kept on side (see: Saudi Arabia). It's disgusting to watch from the inside, of course, but given current circumstances, other countries will act in their own best interests, especially ones where the institutions in charge plan on staying there for a while.
posted by holgate at 8:33 PM on March 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
if only we find the right stupid name for it, liberals will finally win the politics forever
Just like when we finally decide on the right cutesy nickname to avoid saying his name, Trump will resign and confess to being a Russian traitor.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:33 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Just like when we finally decide on the right cutesy nickname to avoid saying his name, Trump will resign and confess to being a Russian traitor.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:33 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Father Knows Best? Fuck no. Bannon wants a postapocalyptic hellscape where he is king.
posted by emjaybee at 8:33 PM on March 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 8:33 PM on March 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."
This belief imho is the greatest and most poisonous lie ever foisted onto the American people, and its been dyed into the very fabric of our national story - which is no doubt deeply pleasing to the descendants of the gilded age and earlier plutocrats who invented it.
posted by azuresunday at 8:38 PM on March 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
This belief imho is the greatest and most poisonous lie ever foisted onto the American people, and its been dyed into the very fabric of our national story - which is no doubt deeply pleasing to the descendants of the gilded age and earlier plutocrats who invented it.
posted by azuresunday at 8:38 PM on March 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
Father Knows Best America™
Führer Knows Best America™, surely.
posted by jaduncan at 8:39 PM on March 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Führer Knows Best America™, surely.
posted by jaduncan at 8:39 PM on March 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Serious Q: who doesn't Bannon hate? Does he have any positive goals?
posted by wenestvedt at 1:16 AM on March 14 [+] [!]
Nope. Imagine depression, anger, and a serious gin addiction mixed into a slurry. Filter it through a mesh composed of white nationalism, and a few shitty philosophy books, the kind most people give up after sophomore year.
Steve Bannon's rotten to the core. He's a monster, in the old sense of the word. Steve Bannon is a warning. Not just in the large sense of being careful who we elect to power, but in the small, day to day sense of being careful who we choose to be, and how we treat those around us. He practically radiates pain, both personal and in policy.
His stated goal is to destroy the "administrative state". Nothing in him is positive anymore. He's way too deep into breaking to ever build anything up again.
posted by mrgoat at 8:43 PM on March 13, 2017 [72 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 1:16 AM on March 14 [+] [!]
Nope. Imagine depression, anger, and a serious gin addiction mixed into a slurry. Filter it through a mesh composed of white nationalism, and a few shitty philosophy books, the kind most people give up after sophomore year.
Steve Bannon's rotten to the core. He's a monster, in the old sense of the word. Steve Bannon is a warning. Not just in the large sense of being careful who we elect to power, but in the small, day to day sense of being careful who we choose to be, and how we treat those around us. He practically radiates pain, both personal and in policy.
His stated goal is to destroy the "administrative state". Nothing in him is positive anymore. He's way too deep into breaking to ever build anything up again.
posted by mrgoat at 8:43 PM on March 13, 2017 [72 favorites]
White House.gov: Obamacare: Share Your Story
I love writing essays telling the WH how much I value compassionate legislation like the ACA. It's cathartic.
posted by OHenryPacey
I bet that was a twist they weren't expecting.
posted by chris24 at 8:44 PM on March 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
I love writing essays telling the WH how much I value compassionate legislation like the ACA. It's cathartic.
posted by OHenryPacey
I bet that was a twist they weren't expecting.
posted by chris24 at 8:44 PM on March 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
Man, that Jill Stein is doing a helluva job.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:48 PM on March 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:48 PM on March 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Imagine depression, anger, and a serious gin addiction mixed into a slurry. Filter it through a mesh composed of white nationalism, and a few shitty philosophy books, the kind most people give up after sophomore year.
Steve Bannon's rotten to the core. He's a monster, in the old sense of the word. Steve Bannon is a warning. Not just in the large sense of being careful who we elect to power, but in the small, day to day sense of being careful who we choose to be, and how we treat those around us. He practically radiates pain, both personal and in policy.
Absolutely. I've flirted with some of the kinds of deeply negative, destructive tendencies Bannon is ruled by at a couple of points in my life, but came back from them. I imagine I'm not the only MeFite who's tangoed with depression and anger at times throughout my life (more so since Election Day, amirite?), and personally, I could do with a little less of the sauce.
Yet I, along with the many others among us who battle with these demons, don't just give up and let the hate take over completely. I don't want to say Bannon just chose to be weak and let it take over him; I don't think any of us will ever really know what caused the darkness to take him over completely. What saved me, I think, is a small underlying optimism that never completely died, coupled with a wonderful wife and two-year-old, and a couple of good, lifelong friends that remind me that yeah, there's still beauty, decency, and goodness in this world.
Were he not in such a position of dangerous power, I'd almost feel sorry for Bannon.
posted by CommonSense at 8:49 PM on March 13, 2017 [26 favorites]
Steve Bannon's rotten to the core. He's a monster, in the old sense of the word. Steve Bannon is a warning. Not just in the large sense of being careful who we elect to power, but in the small, day to day sense of being careful who we choose to be, and how we treat those around us. He practically radiates pain, both personal and in policy.
Absolutely. I've flirted with some of the kinds of deeply negative, destructive tendencies Bannon is ruled by at a couple of points in my life, but came back from them. I imagine I'm not the only MeFite who's tangoed with depression and anger at times throughout my life (more so since Election Day, amirite?), and personally, I could do with a little less of the sauce.
Yet I, along with the many others among us who battle with these demons, don't just give up and let the hate take over completely. I don't want to say Bannon just chose to be weak and let it take over him; I don't think any of us will ever really know what caused the darkness to take him over completely. What saved me, I think, is a small underlying optimism that never completely died, coupled with a wonderful wife and two-year-old, and a couple of good, lifelong friends that remind me that yeah, there's still beauty, decency, and goodness in this world.
Were he not in such a position of dangerous power, I'd almost feel sorry for Bannon.
posted by CommonSense at 8:49 PM on March 13, 2017 [26 favorites]
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."
I've long thought "socialism of idiots" a good phrase for people who aren't getting ahead and blame every external factor except the very rich: illegal immigrants, minorities or even EPA regulators aren't why more people than ever are billionaires and you aren't. But I don't use it because the actual "socialism of idiots" line referred to a more traditional anti-Semitism and I'm sensitive about anything that would co-opt the term for another purpose.
With Trump's rise it's looking like I may not need to worry. It's not co-opting; it works as originally intended and on many more levels.
posted by mark k at 8:51 PM on March 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've long thought "socialism of idiots" a good phrase for people who aren't getting ahead and blame every external factor except the very rich: illegal immigrants, minorities or even EPA regulators aren't why more people than ever are billionaires and you aren't. But I don't use it because the actual "socialism of idiots" line referred to a more traditional anti-Semitism and I'm sensitive about anything that would co-opt the term for another purpose.
With Trump's rise it's looking like I may not need to worry. It's not co-opting; it works as originally intended and on many more levels.
posted by mark k at 8:51 PM on March 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Does this mean that Bannon is at war with Ryan, or has Breitbart somehow gone rogue?
It indicates that Bannon wants full repeal, and that he thinks the best way to get Trump on-side is to communicate with him through Breitbart, rather than in-person.
posted by dirge at 8:53 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
It indicates that Bannon wants full repeal, and that he thinks the best way to get Trump on-side is to communicate with him through Breitbart, rather than in-person.
posted by dirge at 8:53 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
I've been on a British reality show binge via YouTube lately and stumbled onto one called Country House Rescue. The show features a businesswoman who descends on decrepit aristocratic estates and attempts to save the hopelessly-up-their-own-ass lords and ladies from ruin. It's fascinating to watch as an American because I sense that these obliviously cruel Republicans aspire to that life - lazing around in a grand mansion supported by innumerable underpaid, underfed servants who get passed down with the estate to their heirs for eternity. And yet the owners in every episode are just laughably isolated, out of touch and seemingly quite under-educated despite their noble upbringing. It's a mystery to me why anyone would aspire to living in a castle that will inevitably be forgotten by the changing times and rot away while they become unstable hoarders.
posted by azuresunday at 8:54 PM on March 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by azuresunday at 8:54 PM on March 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
I was surprised today by how cheerful it made me to see employees in bright blue vests emblazoned with "Elections" collecting totes of ballots from the box at the library today. There's a municipal election in COS on April 4th, but through the glory of Colorado's all vote-by-mail elections, ballots were sent out on Friday. I'm enthusiastic about the democratic process and a little embarrassed by my optimism, because so much is so bleak right now, but I'll take my good omens where I can find them and it feels normal to have this election for city council.
posted by danielleh at 8:55 PM on March 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by danielleh at 8:55 PM on March 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
This belief imho is the greatest and most poisonous lie ever foisted onto the American people
That interview with Angus Deaton has been bumping around my head for a few days: the idea that even redistributive giveaways to white America can be poison chalices. A while back I talked about people who live in remote areas in paid-off houses inherited from relatives, whose largest bill is property taxes, and that affects how they see government. They're stuck: nobody wants to buy their property; they can't afford to move; they can barely afford to live. There's a massive amount of tension in American culture -- more so, I think, than in most developed nations -- between continuity and radical transformation. It's perhaps the product of not really having cities without their being industrial cities. And into this you dump Steve Bannon, the oily preserved corpse of Italian Futurism, alongside Steve King, the ugly face of a belief in racial purity.
Elsewhere, Josh Marshall is teasing something out of the blue: "Remember, wld be terrible if we learned tens of millions in foreign cash had been brought into 2016 campaign ground operations." That would be a kind of Grand Unifying Timeline, if the arrival of Manafort and the Ukraine policy shift opened up a spigot to dirty cash laundered through pension payments. But, it's still just speculation.
posted by holgate at 8:56 PM on March 13, 2017 [34 favorites]
That interview with Angus Deaton has been bumping around my head for a few days: the idea that even redistributive giveaways to white America can be poison chalices. A while back I talked about people who live in remote areas in paid-off houses inherited from relatives, whose largest bill is property taxes, and that affects how they see government. They're stuck: nobody wants to buy their property; they can't afford to move; they can barely afford to live. There's a massive amount of tension in American culture -- more so, I think, than in most developed nations -- between continuity and radical transformation. It's perhaps the product of not really having cities without their being industrial cities. And into this you dump Steve Bannon, the oily preserved corpse of Italian Futurism, alongside Steve King, the ugly face of a belief in racial purity.
Elsewhere, Josh Marshall is teasing something out of the blue: "Remember, wld be terrible if we learned tens of millions in foreign cash had been brought into 2016 campaign ground operations." That would be a kind of Grand Unifying Timeline, if the arrival of Manafort and the Ukraine policy shift opened up a spigot to dirty cash laundered through pension payments. But, it's still just speculation.
posted by holgate at 8:56 PM on March 13, 2017 [34 favorites]
Stay tuned for the next episode of "Gin Blossom & Cheddar Glans go to the White House".
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 9:03 PM on March 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 9:03 PM on March 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Steve Bannon, the oily preserved corpse of Italian Futurism...
bravo.
posted by j_curiouser at 9:04 PM on March 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
bravo.
posted by j_curiouser at 9:04 PM on March 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
I haven't posted a drawing in one of the threads recently, primarily because I was taking a mental health break from them.
But, I'm here along with a rendering of Trump on the golf course.
Please feel free to share, or download, or what have you.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 9:07 PM on March 13, 2017 [62 favorites]
But, I'm here along with a rendering of Trump on the golf course.
Please feel free to share, or download, or what have you.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 9:07 PM on March 13, 2017 [62 favorites]
Trump on the Gold Course sent me straight to
What have they done to the Earth?
What have they done to our fair sister?
Ravaged and plundered and ripped her and bit her,
Stuck her with knives in the side of the dawn
Tied her with fences
And dragged her down. J. Morrison, I'm just saying how that hit me.
posted by Oyéah at 9:14 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
What have they done to the Earth?
What have they done to our fair sister?
Ravaged and plundered and ripped her and bit her,
Stuck her with knives in the side of the dawn
Tied her with fences
And dragged her down. J. Morrison, I'm just saying how that hit me.
posted by Oyéah at 9:14 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
RE foreign money influence:
Given...
(a) how relatively easy it would be for a foreign national to launder money through a superPAC despite the illegality,
(b) the fact that one of Trump's superPACs was caught in a sting offering to do just that, and
(c) that Trump is a proven con artist with no moral compass...
...I think we can pretty much safely assume that Russia (and probably other foreign actors) backed a figurative dump truck full of money to the back door of Trump Tower at some point in the campaign. I've half expected the shoe to drop about this before now, honestly.
posted by darkstar at 9:26 PM on March 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Given...
(a) how relatively easy it would be for a foreign national to launder money through a superPAC despite the illegality,
(b) the fact that one of Trump's superPACs was caught in a sting offering to do just that, and
(c) that Trump is a proven con artist with no moral compass...
...I think we can pretty much safely assume that Russia (and probably other foreign actors) backed a figurative dump truck full of money to the back door of Trump Tower at some point in the campaign. I've half expected the shoe to drop about this before now, honestly.
posted by darkstar at 9:26 PM on March 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Want to know how much Breitbart is at war with Paul Ryan? They just published audio of Ryan's conference call from October 10 after the pussy tape came out (it's an archive link).
This makes me happy because it indicates that Bannon knows the AHCA is going to fail, and he's stepping on Paul Ryans head for leverage as he desperately tries to swim for shore.
posted by msalt at 9:31 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
This makes me happy because it indicates that Bannon knows the AHCA is going to fail, and he's stepping on Paul Ryans head for leverage as he desperately tries to swim for shore.
posted by msalt at 9:31 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
[Bannon's] stated goal is to destroy the "administrative state"
The goal of any (wannabe) autocrat, whether on or behind the throne, is to first destroy every independent institution that can check their power. Republicans have been doing this for years (attacking the media, science, courts) imagining that they would all rule together unopposed as a unified party.
What they didn't realize was that the Republican Party itself is one of those independent institutions. And that once the checks and balances were gone, it was always going to be a no-holds barred fight to the death for power. Bloodless, coddled functionaries like Paul Ryan aren't gonna last 5 minutes against a vicious and instinctive nihilist such as Steve Bannon.
posted by msalt at 9:32 PM on March 13, 2017 [57 favorites]
The goal of any (wannabe) autocrat, whether on or behind the throne, is to first destroy every independent institution that can check their power. Republicans have been doing this for years (attacking the media, science, courts) imagining that they would all rule together unopposed as a unified party.
What they didn't realize was that the Republican Party itself is one of those independent institutions. And that once the checks and balances were gone, it was always going to be a no-holds barred fight to the death for power. Bloodless, coddled functionaries like Paul Ryan aren't gonna last 5 minutes against a vicious and instinctive nihilist such as Steve Bannon.
posted by msalt at 9:32 PM on March 13, 2017 [57 favorites]
darkstar: also
(d) given that the business of the Family Business is sluicing money from one shadowy entity to another to preserve liquidity with minimal accountability...
posted by holgate at 9:32 PM on March 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
(d) given that the business of the Family Business is sluicing money from one shadowy entity to another to preserve liquidity with minimal accountability...
posted by holgate at 9:32 PM on March 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
What's the opposite of burying the lede? Because this Vice piece here is doing that:
It struck me as normal, somehow, to watch my girlfriend enter an online sweepstakes that would help decide whether or not she would be able to afford to buy medicine. Only now, watching the Republican establishment dismantle the Affordable Care Act, has this struck me as cruel.posted by komara at 9:39 PM on March 13, 2017 [140 favorites]
I don't remember the specifics of the promotion, but I remember that it was a monthly trivia contest run by an online cystic fibrosis pharmacy. Answer the questions right, and your name was entered to receive $500 toward your meds. I'd ask Katelin about it now, but she is dead.
So the provision that provided funds to people jobless or below poverty is being replaced with a tax cut, which doesn't help the poor at all. If you make min wage, you're good and screwed, correct? Not that states like Texas ever offered this provision anyway.
posted by Beholder at 9:46 PM on March 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Beholder at 9:46 PM on March 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
- Uncle Sam, I'm afraid you are the sickest polity in the world. You have everything.
- You mean I have crony capitalism?
- Yes.
- Fascism?
- Yes.
- Pseudo-katechontic monarchy?
- Uh, a little bit, yes. You also have several societal dysfunctions that have just been discovered...in you.
- This sounds like bad news.
- Well, you'd think so, but all of your maladies are in perfect balance. Uh, if you have a moment, I can explain.
- Well...
- Here's the door to your body, see? And these are oversized novelty dystopias. That's totalitarian theocracy, that's an anarcho-capitalist wasteland, and this cute little cuddle-bug is nuclear armageddon. Here's what happens when they all try to get through the door at once: "Woo-woo-woo-woo-woo-woo-woo!" "Move it, chowderhead!" We call it "Three Stooges Syndrome."
- So what you're saying is, I'm indestructible
- Oh, no, no, in fact, even a slight breeze could-
- Indestructible....
posted by Iridic at 9:53 PM on March 13, 2017 [48 favorites]
- You mean I have crony capitalism?
- Yes.
- Fascism?
- Yes.
- Pseudo-katechontic monarchy?
- Uh, a little bit, yes. You also have several societal dysfunctions that have just been discovered...in you.
- This sounds like bad news.
- Well, you'd think so, but all of your maladies are in perfect balance. Uh, if you have a moment, I can explain.
- Well...
- Here's the door to your body, see? And these are oversized novelty dystopias. That's totalitarian theocracy, that's an anarcho-capitalist wasteland, and this cute little cuddle-bug is nuclear armageddon. Here's what happens when they all try to get through the door at once: "Woo-woo-woo-woo-woo-woo-woo!" "Move it, chowderhead!" We call it "Three Stooges Syndrome."
- So what you're saying is, I'm indestructible
- Oh, no, no, in fact, even a slight breeze could-
- Indestructible....
posted by Iridic at 9:53 PM on March 13, 2017 [48 favorites]
Wow, that Vice piece.
In most of the developed world, chronic illness is treated as a manageable misfortune, because there's a standing social consensus that you have already been fucked over. (Whether that consensus would be supported if it required ongoing reauthorisation is another matter, but that's because we live in shitty times.)
In the US, chronic illness is the fucking Hunger Games. It exists around you, and you don't notice it until you're part of it. Your insurer changes its formulary (perhaps because of lucrative kickbacks involving PMOs and pharma companies) and the stuff that worked for you either requires special pleading or is no longer available. Pharmacy discount schemes stop working because the "usual and customary" value has been hiked by 500% because too many people used the discount scheme. You find local support groups and arrange swap meets to see if you can trade off the stuff your insurer will pay for with the stuff you actually rely on. You buy supplies on eBay from Florida and think about the retirees and intermediaries who create that particular grey economy.
Living with chronic illness is already a second job. America gives you a third job on top of it. People accept this as normal because they can't imagine an alternative, and why should they think otherwise? This is not normal.
posted by holgate at 9:56 PM on March 13, 2017 [159 favorites]
In most of the developed world, chronic illness is treated as a manageable misfortune, because there's a standing social consensus that you have already been fucked over. (Whether that consensus would be supported if it required ongoing reauthorisation is another matter, but that's because we live in shitty times.)
In the US, chronic illness is the fucking Hunger Games. It exists around you, and you don't notice it until you're part of it. Your insurer changes its formulary (perhaps because of lucrative kickbacks involving PMOs and pharma companies) and the stuff that worked for you either requires special pleading or is no longer available. Pharmacy discount schemes stop working because the "usual and customary" value has been hiked by 500% because too many people used the discount scheme. You find local support groups and arrange swap meets to see if you can trade off the stuff your insurer will pay for with the stuff you actually rely on. You buy supplies on eBay from Florida and think about the retirees and intermediaries who create that particular grey economy.
Living with chronic illness is already a second job. America gives you a third job on top of it. People accept this as normal because they can't imagine an alternative, and why should they think otherwise? This is not normal.
posted by holgate at 9:56 PM on March 13, 2017 [159 favorites]
"Uh, why the hell not? He's out whipping for it. He doesn't care/understand about the consequences, they want a "win" for "replacing" Obamacare with "something great", and Trump is incapable of coming up with anything on his own. So this is all he's got. He'll absolutely sign this, and literally everything else put on his desk."
The single philosophy of Trumpism is "Got mine, fuck you." To assess his feelings on policy, does he still got his? If so, fuck you.
posted by klangklangston at 10:07 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
The single philosophy of Trumpism is "Got mine, fuck you." To assess his feelings on policy, does he still got his? If so, fuck you.
posted by klangklangston at 10:07 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Whatever little expectations Priebus had for his unholy alliance with Bannon and Trump, I'm reasonably sure they didn't involve declaring war on Paul Ryan and demanding his ouster.
He knew they were snakes when he took them in.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 10:08 PM on March 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
He knew they were snakes when he took them in.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 10:08 PM on March 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
Hamilton church volunteers denied entry to U.S. so they wouldn't 'steal American jobs'
On this occasion, however, the group was told that, as foreigners, they would be taking American jobs, and that there was no pressing need for relief work anyway this long after Hurricane Sandy hit the region in 2012.
"Hurricane Sandy happened five years ago ... but the unfortunate thing for people who live in poverty is that they don't get over these things as quickly as others," he explained.
"They obviously can't afford to remove the barriers that are in front of them on their own, so they rely on volunteers coming. And that's all we were trying to do, go help others."
Kaper-Dale agreed, saying it takes an average of seven years to get an impoverished family back on its feet.
"We still have people living in their yards and in trailers while their houses are not completed because of financial shortcomings and the distribution of funding after Hurricane Sandy. Honestly, it just takes a long time to rebuild."
SAD! Seriously sad. This what sad actually means you fucking piece of shit US president. 5 plus years after Hurricane Sandy our friends to the north are still coming to the US to help people. Think about that.
And now their volunteer work is somehow stealing American jobs. Ooookay. On the surface this appears petty and/or brainless.
posted by futz at 10:17 PM on March 13, 2017 [84 favorites]
On this occasion, however, the group was told that, as foreigners, they would be taking American jobs, and that there was no pressing need for relief work anyway this long after Hurricane Sandy hit the region in 2012.
"Hurricane Sandy happened five years ago ... but the unfortunate thing for people who live in poverty is that they don't get over these things as quickly as others," he explained.
"They obviously can't afford to remove the barriers that are in front of them on their own, so they rely on volunteers coming. And that's all we were trying to do, go help others."
Kaper-Dale agreed, saying it takes an average of seven years to get an impoverished family back on its feet.
"We still have people living in their yards and in trailers while their houses are not completed because of financial shortcomings and the distribution of funding after Hurricane Sandy. Honestly, it just takes a long time to rebuild."
SAD! Seriously sad. This what sad actually means you fucking piece of shit US president. 5 plus years after Hurricane Sandy our friends to the north are still coming to the US to help people. Think about that.
And now their volunteer work is somehow stealing American jobs. Ooookay. On the surface this appears petty and/or brainless.
posted by futz at 10:17 PM on March 13, 2017 [84 favorites]
On the surface this appears petty and/or brainless.
CBP = Customarily Brainless and Petty.
posted by holgate at 10:22 PM on March 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
CBP = Customarily Brainless and Petty.
posted by holgate at 10:22 PM on March 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
I really don't understand the rhetoric from the far right on this, some groups hate Trumpcare for not being full repeal, but they're also using tactics from the left citing the number of uninsured? What?
Breitbart is apparently being gutted of ad dollars by Sleeping Giants and related initiatives - this may be part of the rumored attempt to grovel their way back via less transparently fascistic clickbait.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:22 PM on March 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
- Good news everybody! No more of those terrible Government Death Panels!
- Oh, well that's a relief!
- Isn't it? We're privatizing the whole thing!
- Wut?
- Your shiny new, totally not government so it's totally Ok, Mom, America, and Capitalism Death Panel (tm), now consists of your boss who hates you, that guy in HR who's always going on about "personal responsibility," and a late-middle-age diabetic in an insurance company cubicle in South Dakota who will lose his job and insulin supply if he lets you buy so much as a multivitamin.
- Umm... You know, it wasn't so much the "government" part of the death panels that I had a problem with. Mostly the "death" part, actually. And I think I'm going to miss the "imaginary" aspect.
- Not sure I like your attitude. You need to accept personal responsibility for maintaining a healthy relationship with your Death Panel. I may mention this to your boss.
posted by dirge at 10:40 PM on March 13, 2017 [40 favorites]
- Oh, well that's a relief!
- Isn't it? We're privatizing the whole thing!
- Wut?
- Your shiny new, totally not government so it's totally Ok, Mom, America, and Capitalism Death Panel (tm), now consists of your boss who hates you, that guy in HR who's always going on about "personal responsibility," and a late-middle-age diabetic in an insurance company cubicle in South Dakota who will lose his job and insulin supply if he lets you buy so much as a multivitamin.
- Umm... You know, it wasn't so much the "government" part of the death panels that I had a problem with. Mostly the "death" part, actually. And I think I'm going to miss the "imaginary" aspect.
- Not sure I like your attitude. You need to accept personal responsibility for maintaining a healthy relationship with your Death Panel. I may mention this to your boss.
posted by dirge at 10:40 PM on March 13, 2017 [40 favorites]
this may be part of the rumored attempt to grovel their way back via less transparently fascistic clickbait.
Another take is that it was written specifically to be printed out and placed on the desk of the Oval Office. Ordinarily, the Breitbart-Ryan flareup could be filed under "and nothing of value was lost", but I'm more inclined to agree with msalt that Actual President Bannon wants to break and remake the Congressional GOP leadership in the image of the family dictatorship, banking on there being enough true believers in the caucus to prevent that being a trigger for impeachment.
posted by holgate at 10:41 PM on March 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
Another take is that it was written specifically to be printed out and placed on the desk of the Oval Office. Ordinarily, the Breitbart-Ryan flareup could be filed under "and nothing of value was lost", but I'm more inclined to agree with msalt that Actual President Bannon wants to break and remake the Congressional GOP leadership in the image of the family dictatorship, banking on there being enough true believers in the caucus to prevent that being a trigger for impeachment.
posted by holgate at 10:41 PM on March 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
If you've never seen The Autobiography of Nicolae Ceausescu, go for it.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:47 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:47 PM on March 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah if Breitbart was looking to show a little bit more legitimacy, they wouldn't be doing it by demanding the head of Paul Ryan. It's worth at least skimming the actual article. It's a very serious attack that ties together Ryan's October comments, the healthcare plan, and White House dissatisfaction with Ryan's leadership. And it ends by outright telling the base basically "if this is how Ryan is handling healthcare, just think how badly he'll screw up the other good stuff you want."
That's not an attempt to get ad dollars back by acting a little more responsible. It's an attempt to complete the total takeover of the GOP. If Bannon's appearance at CPAC was the shot that signified this is the party of Trump now, this is the chaser to make good on that.
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 PM on March 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
That's not an attempt to get ad dollars back by acting a little more responsible. It's an attempt to complete the total takeover of the GOP. If Bannon's appearance at CPAC was the shot that signified this is the party of Trump now, this is the chaser to make good on that.
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 PM on March 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
[Canada's] Federal plan to fast-track foreign talent could capitalize on Trump's crackdown
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:01 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:01 PM on March 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
(I'm so not going to visit Breitbart, but the screencap excerpts suggest that it was written and edited to be readable by the White House occupant in a prose style he understands and can consume. That's the frame we're working with now.)
posted by holgate at 11:03 PM on March 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by holgate at 11:03 PM on March 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
!!!!!!:
Living with chronic illness is already a second job. America gives you a third job on top of it. People accept this as normal because they can't imagine an alternative, and why should they think otherwise?
Omfg yes. It is so not normal and I am not trying to be a smarty-pants at all but when you know that this is not normal it can be more soul crushing. I think most people do realize this. Maybe I am wrong about that and folks are conditioned to the ever increasing hoops that they have to trip over and stumble through? There is no jumping through a hoop when you are disabled (generalization).
Speaking to my insurance company and trying to get a straight answer after 5 different service reps have given you 5 different answers and asking each one to document our conversation only to find out they didn't and then having to start from the beginning every time you call is exhausting. When I was feisty and full of indignation/anger/determination (but oh so polite on the calls) I always ended up getting what I requested.
The ultimate end result for me was total burnout. I do have insurance in a red state. I should use it before I lose it.
I could write a novel about this. That will have to wait until I can get better pain management so that I can get to physical therapy, eye doctor, dentist, mammogram, various other health screenings and procedures.
Yo mods, if this is a derail please send the bees.
posted by futz at 11:11 PM on March 13, 2017 [46 favorites]
Living with chronic illness is already a second job. America gives you a third job on top of it. People accept this as normal because they can't imagine an alternative, and why should they think otherwise?
Omfg yes. It is so not normal and I am not trying to be a smarty-pants at all but when you know that this is not normal it can be more soul crushing. I think most people do realize this. Maybe I am wrong about that and folks are conditioned to the ever increasing hoops that they have to trip over and stumble through? There is no jumping through a hoop when you are disabled (generalization).
Speaking to my insurance company and trying to get a straight answer after 5 different service reps have given you 5 different answers and asking each one to document our conversation only to find out they didn't and then having to start from the beginning every time you call is exhausting. When I was feisty and full of indignation/anger/determination (but oh so polite on the calls) I always ended up getting what I requested.
The ultimate end result for me was total burnout. I do have insurance in a red state. I should use it before I lose it.
I could write a novel about this. That will have to wait until I can get better pain management so that I can get to physical therapy, eye doctor, dentist, mammogram, various other health screenings and procedures.
Yo mods, if this is a derail please send the bees.
posted by futz at 11:11 PM on March 13, 2017 [46 favorites]
The insurance industry already has death panels and has had them for basically forever. They are called actuaries. Why has no one every talked about this before? FFS. So we have all decided that it is ok for some nameless faceless entity, employed by some for profit company to have these death panels, but not ok for the government that we set up together, voted for etc. to consider the same things. Yeah. Sounds about right.
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 11:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 11:16 PM on March 13, 2017 [43 favorites]
Has anybody got an approximate House Republican whip count on Paul Ryan crazy vs. Rand Paul crazy vs. Steve King crazy vs. idiosyncratic other crazy? I assume "not obviously crazy" has some derisory residual constituency?
If Bannon, and/or whoever, managed to depose Ryan, is there anything left that can be plausibly described as a "Republican Caucus?" Is there any candidate with support from more than a third of the caucus to replace Ryan as Speaker? They don't seem to be able to agree on anything else.
posted by dirge at 11:19 PM on March 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
If Bannon, and/or whoever, managed to depose Ryan, is there anything left that can be plausibly described as a "Republican Caucus?" Is there any candidate with support from more than a third of the caucus to replace Ryan as Speaker? They don't seem to be able to agree on anything else.
posted by dirge at 11:19 PM on March 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
If Bannon, and/or whoever, managed to depose Ryan, is there anything left that can be plausibly described as a "Republican Caucus?"
That's a fair question. There's the "Freedom Caucus", which is such a fucking sad treehouse gang that it doesn't disclose its leadership, though talking sphincter Mark Meadows (who represents an Appalachian bit of NC ravaged by meth and opioids) is treated as a leader. But as is sometimes mentioned by pundits, you don't have to be a member of the House to be elected as Speaker, and I'm sure the White House would like the House majority to have no autonomy whatsoever.
posted by holgate at 11:57 PM on March 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's a fair question. There's the "Freedom Caucus", which is such a fucking sad treehouse gang that it doesn't disclose its leadership, though talking sphincter Mark Meadows (who represents an Appalachian bit of NC ravaged by meth and opioids) is treated as a leader. But as is sometimes mentioned by pundits, you don't have to be a member of the House to be elected as Speaker, and I'm sure the White House would like the House majority to have no autonomy whatsoever.
posted by holgate at 11:57 PM on March 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
It would be a rather amusing bit of karma for Ryan's monster to kill him first. I feel like both sides ferociously briefing against each other would be rather better for killing productivity, though.
posted by jaduncan at 12:10 AM on March 14, 2017
posted by jaduncan at 12:10 AM on March 14, 2017
somewhere in america tonight, john boehner pours himself a tall glass of wine and drinks to the "health" of the republican party.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 12:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
elsewhere in america tonight, newt gingrich emerges from his bunker, sees his shadow, and thinks to himself "maybe they'll make me speaker again."
posted by zachlipton at 12:24 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:24 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
The single philosophy of Trumpism is "Got mine, fuck you." To assess his feelings on policy, does he still got his? If so, fuck you.
That is what the concept of the 'American dream' has always translated to for me. One hand shaking, the other in their back pocket. It's implicit that someone is doing worse than you are.
posted by mannequito at 12:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
That is what the concept of the 'American dream' has always translated to for me. One hand shaking, the other in their back pocket. It's implicit that someone is doing worse than you are.
posted by mannequito at 12:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Justice Department asks for more time after Trump fails to provide wiretap evidence
The Department of Justice said on Monday it had requested more time to respond to a request from lawmakers on the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee for evidence about President Donald Trump’s allegation that then-President Barack Obama wiretapped him.posted by Room 641-A at 12:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
Have you seen the UN's sustainable development goals? The US is going to fail the big ones like zero hunger, health and well being for everyone, decent work for decent pay. I don't even.
posted by b33j at 2:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by b33j at 2:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
That Breitbart piece is something else. Reads like something out of North Korea. Nice swipe at Spicer, also.
"House GOP leadership offices—particularly Ryan’s and House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy’s team—have not responded to requests for comment on the possibility the bill may be pulled altogether. But White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer, who is working internally as hard as he can to help Ryan on this front regardless of the impact on Trump along with a handful of other White House aides who came from the Republican National Committee and are not Trump loyalists, told Breitbart News that the idea the bill may be pulled is “false.”
But in conversations Breitbart News has had with no fewer than 15 other White House aides, including many on the press team, it is clear that the President and the senior Trump administration team are not happy with this bill’s lack of conservative support. The President and his team were assured by Ryan that conservatives would, in fact, be on board with it in the beginning, something that has turned out to not be accurate. Interestingly, much more so than Ryan and his House GOP leadership team, the White House is much more open to significant negotiation on the details in a healthcare bill—including the structure, vehicle, timeline and more. Several senior White House aides confirmed to Breitbart News that while the administration is publicly touting the bill as the party line, the President is much more willing to wheel and deal on this front than Ryan loyalists on his team would have anyone believe."
posted by AwkwardPause at 3:20 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
"House GOP leadership offices—particularly Ryan’s and House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy’s team—have not responded to requests for comment on the possibility the bill may be pulled altogether. But White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer, who is working internally as hard as he can to help Ryan on this front regardless of the impact on Trump along with a handful of other White House aides who came from the Republican National Committee and are not Trump loyalists, told Breitbart News that the idea the bill may be pulled is “false.”
But in conversations Breitbart News has had with no fewer than 15 other White House aides, including many on the press team, it is clear that the President and the senior Trump administration team are not happy with this bill’s lack of conservative support. The President and his team were assured by Ryan that conservatives would, in fact, be on board with it in the beginning, something that has turned out to not be accurate. Interestingly, much more so than Ryan and his House GOP leadership team, the White House is much more open to significant negotiation on the details in a healthcare bill—including the structure, vehicle, timeline and more. Several senior White House aides confirmed to Breitbart News that while the administration is publicly touting the bill as the party line, the President is much more willing to wheel and deal on this front than Ryan loyalists on his team would have anyone believe."
posted by AwkwardPause at 3:20 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
the President is much more willing to wheel and deal
Hey, remember when flip-flopping was bad?
posted by Etrigan at 3:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Hey, remember when flip-flopping was bad?
posted by Etrigan at 3:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Wow, that CBO report is terrifying. I knew that the bill was terrible but I didn't even imagine that it could be that bad.
posted by octothorpe at 4:00 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:00 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
One silver lining from the last 50 days - my wife (MeFi's Own banjo_and_the_pork) was always woke, but rather than feel frustrated or filled with despair, she's going all in. In the past 50, she's marched in Washington and Boston, collected toys and clothes for Syrian refugees, attended and helped run a local Democrat caucus, speaking at city-wide meetings, and so on. Our current City Council has been dicking around trying to bury a Sanctuary City proposal and that was the final straw.
So on International Women's Day, she announced her candidacy for City Council here in the Witch City.
I don't think she's an outlier in this, the evil stupidity of the current administration has pushed a lot of competent, intelligent people into action. Hopefully the momentum will continue to build over the next two years.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:09 AM on March 14, 2017 [240 favorites]
So on International Women's Day, she announced her candidacy for City Council here in the Witch City.
I don't think she's an outlier in this, the evil stupidity of the current administration has pushed a lot of competent, intelligent people into action. Hopefully the momentum will continue to build over the next two years.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:09 AM on March 14, 2017 [240 favorites]
I hereby suggest that ALL americans should lose their medical insurance, and have it replaced with, you know, actual health care.
posted by MikeWarot at 5:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [68 favorites]
posted by MikeWarot at 5:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [68 favorites]
People gave Grayson such shit for it, but their plan really is "If you get sick, die quickly."
Republicans howled about Grayson's "incivility" precisely because he had them dead to rights. And the media retreated to their fainting couches because Grayson's framing makes it hard to pretend Republicans are acting in good faith for the sake of "balance. Dismissing the statement out of hand spared them the hard work of analyzing Republican policy to see if Grayson's statement was actually true. If only the media had remembered Adlai Stevenson's quip that Democrats would agree to stop telling the truth about Republicans when they stopped lying about Democrats.
posted by Gelatin at 5:12 AM on March 14, 2017 [32 favorites]
Republicans howled about Grayson's "incivility" precisely because he had them dead to rights. And the media retreated to their fainting couches because Grayson's framing makes it hard to pretend Republicans are acting in good faith for the sake of "balance. Dismissing the statement out of hand spared them the hard work of analyzing Republican policy to see if Grayson's statement was actually true. If only the media had remembered Adlai Stevenson's quip that Democrats would agree to stop telling the truth about Republicans when they stopped lying about Democrats.
posted by Gelatin at 5:12 AM on March 14, 2017 [32 favorites]
Justice Department asks for more time after Trump fails to provide wiretap evidence
It's time for the Press and our Senators and Representatives to stop dancing around the clear truth here.
Donald Trump is lying to you, me, them. Everybody. All the time. Now, IMNSHO, it's a violation of US Law, 18 USC 1001, and others, but that's secondary.
It's time for the Press, and our Elected Officials to clearly call Donald Trump's lies what they are, "LIES", and Donald Trump a "LIAR".
posted by mikelieman at 5:24 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's time for the Press and our Senators and Representatives to stop dancing around the clear truth here.
Donald Trump is lying to you, me, them. Everybody. All the time. Now, IMNSHO, it's a violation of US Law, 18 USC 1001, and others, but that's secondary.
It's time for the Press, and our Elected Officials to clearly call Donald Trump's lies what they are, "LIES", and Donald Trump a "LIAR".
posted by mikelieman at 5:24 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's time for the Press, and our Elected Officials to clearly call Donald Trump's lies what they are, "LIES", and Donald Trump a "LIAR".
We've been over this. Using the word "liar" presumes intent. Using the word "liar" without definitive proof is partisan. No news organization in their right mind is going to use the word liar unless they have SCROTUS on tape boasting about misleading the American people.
posted by Talez at 5:32 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
We've been over this. Using the word "liar" presumes intent. Using the word "liar" without definitive proof is partisan. No news organization in their right mind is going to use the word liar unless they have SCROTUS on tape boasting about misleading the American people.
posted by Talez at 5:32 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Using the word "liar" presumes intent.
So what's the problem there?
posted by thelonius at 5:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
So what's the problem there?
posted by thelonius at 5:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Using the word "liar" presumes intent.
So what's the problem there?
posted by thelonius at 5:35 AM on March 14 [+] [!]
Funnily enough, I think the implication is that he can't tell the difference between lies and his pretty little thoughts.
Our president. Such a dreamer.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:39 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
So what's the problem there?
posted by thelonius at 5:35 AM on March 14 [+] [!]
Funnily enough, I think the implication is that he can't tell the difference between lies and his pretty little thoughts.
Our president. Such a dreamer.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:39 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
npr doing a puff piece on kelly anne conjob. if this was 1935 they'd be doing a soft profile on Goebbels
posted by localhuman at 5:39 AM on March 14, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 5:39 AM on March 14, 2017 [40 favorites]
A second point, less happy, I expect to be confirmed: The press, including the "liberal" NYT and NPR, will respond by making the CBO and White House projections part of the "Democratic side" and go wherever they need to to get the "Republican side" and give it roughly equal weighting. The occasional comment in a news story referring to the CBO as non-partisan or something will be pointed to if you complain and reporters and editors will continue.
I haven't been pleased with NPR's political coverage at all, but to their credit, they had Claire McCaskill on this morning, who was coherent and effective in her criticism of Trumpcare. (Okay, the NPR interviewer did bring up the claim that the Ryan bill reduces the deficit, like anyone should care, but she countered that it does so by kicking people off of Medicaid, which may have been the intent, so I'll consider that a wash.)
NPR also threw a little shade by pointing out that their invitation to Republicans to have someone on to defend the bill remains open.
posted by Gelatin at 5:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
I haven't been pleased with NPR's political coverage at all, but to their credit, they had Claire McCaskill on this morning, who was coherent and effective in her criticism of Trumpcare. (Okay, the NPR interviewer did bring up the claim that the Ryan bill reduces the deficit, like anyone should care, but she countered that it does so by kicking people off of Medicaid, which may have been the intent, so I'll consider that a wash.)
NPR also threw a little shade by pointing out that their invitation to Republicans to have someone on to defend the bill remains open.
posted by Gelatin at 5:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
Serious Q: who doesn't Bannon hate? Does he have any positive goals?
His "positive" goal is the restoration of Father Knows Best America™. Male dominated, white dominated, capitalist dominated.
Only much, much less benevolent than the TV show. More like this one.
posted by Gelatin at 5:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
His "positive" goal is the restoration of Father Knows Best America™. Male dominated, white dominated, capitalist dominated.
Only much, much less benevolent than the TV show. More like this one.
posted by Gelatin at 5:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just rewatched "All the President's Men" for maybe the 20th time. The end, where it's all teletype news scrolling across the screen--with who was convicted for what, their sentences, Nixon's denial even when caught red-handed, and the new of his resignation three days later--made me so emotional in a way it never has before. Probably my soft liberal heart filling with hope of a live replay of that scene for modern times.
Will the 21st century Woodward and Bernstein please stand up??
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 5:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
Will the 21st century Woodward and Bernstein please stand up??
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 5:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
He's a bullshitter - liars are aware of the truth value of their statements, bullshitters don't care.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Meatbomb at 5:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Using the word "liar" without definitive proof is partisan.
Trump has had ample opportunity to disprove the hypothesis that he's lying about Obama wiretapping him during the campaign.
Trump has failed to provide the extraordinary proof required to substantiate his extraordinary claims.
So, there's no reason NOT TO call his claims lies, and him a liar.
posted by mikelieman at 5:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump has had ample opportunity to disprove the hypothesis that he's lying about Obama wiretapping him during the campaign.
Trump has failed to provide the extraordinary proof required to substantiate his extraordinary claims.
So, there's no reason NOT TO call his claims lies, and him a liar.
posted by mikelieman at 5:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
We asked for Woodward & Bernstein, and all we got was this stupid wikileaks thing
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
More to the point. I strongly disagree that objective facts, "Donald Trump Lied About Obama Tapping His Phones" are partisan.
posted by mikelieman at 5:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 5:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
Like many people, sometimes I continue a conversation in my head and then forget that the other person wasn't following along, and this happened to me after my husband and I had been discussing the healthcare bill ("health" "care") and how the Republicans don't want to cover prenatal care or birth control but also don't want anyone to have abortions and so what the hell are we all supposed to do? This conversation kept going in my head for a few hours which is why, seemingly out of the blue, I announced to my husband "I figured it out: gay sex".
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 5:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [67 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 5:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [67 favorites]
I *WILL* consider that he's mentally incompetent and therefore, without intent.
I welcome proof of this alternative hypothesis.
posted by mikelieman at 5:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I welcome proof of this alternative hypothesis.
posted by mikelieman at 5:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Incredible Cruelty of Trumpcare
"If Republicans wanted to cut taxes on the rich, they could cut taxes on the rich (by zeroing out Obamacares taxes, or cutting other taxes or both) and distribute trillions of dollars in revenue up the income scale without creating a vast humanitarian crisis as collateral damage. The 14 million people who will lose their insurance immediately under AHCA, and the 24 million who will be uninsured 10 years from now as a consequence of it, are necessary not so that Republicans can cut taxes per se, but so that the tax cuts won’t expire automatically. These millions of uninsured serve only to make the giant GOP tax cut for the rich permanent, as opposed to merely 10 years long.
The irony is that for all the GOP’s vindictiveness, the collateral damage would be born disproportionately by Trump’s own supporters."
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [44 favorites]
"If Republicans wanted to cut taxes on the rich, they could cut taxes on the rich (by zeroing out Obamacares taxes, or cutting other taxes or both) and distribute trillions of dollars in revenue up the income scale without creating a vast humanitarian crisis as collateral damage. The 14 million people who will lose their insurance immediately under AHCA, and the 24 million who will be uninsured 10 years from now as a consequence of it, are necessary not so that Republicans can cut taxes per se, but so that the tax cuts won’t expire automatically. These millions of uninsured serve only to make the giant GOP tax cut for the rich permanent, as opposed to merely 10 years long.
The irony is that for all the GOP’s vindictiveness, the collateral damage would be born disproportionately by Trump’s own supporters."
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [44 favorites]
Answer the questions right, and your name was entered to receive $500 toward your meds.
Yeah, ugh, these kinds of gimmicky promotions only underscore and make it obvious how unfair and dehumanizing our health care system and attitudes toward delivering it are; it's like throwing one of those tacky, huckstery fire sales for vital lifesaving medical services. It puts health care in that same sort of crass consumer marketing space as ginsu knife sets and snuggies, which undermines the idea that we really take everyone's health and well-being seriously as a public health issue. It seems to reflect an inherently undignified and cynically commercial way of thinking about human life and access to medical services. I'm sure the organizers' motives behind these sorts of campaigns are often genuinely good and rooted in a laudable impulse to expand healthcare access, but the way our culture markets everything kind of makes you picture juggling clowns and carnival barkers, like it's all just some lighthearted game or entertainment.
We've been over this. Using the word "liar" presumes intent.
I think with Trump there is often an intent to lie, he just doesn't let his conscious mind attend to that, he doesn't reflect on what he's doing enough that he ever owns his intentions, he just does whatever instinctually feels like the right tactical move in the situation to get bargaining leverage, without much regard for the context. I bet he's developed a cognitive habit of dissociation from his own lying and deception, as a survival tactic, to make it possible to lie more effectively without any guilt or moral compunction. I mean, if you pick up a habit of thought that astutely avoids reflecting on what you're doing when you lie, so you can do it more easily, in a way, it's never your specific intent in the moment to lie, but there is a sort of general contempt for truth imputed in each individual act of deception and so I think in that sense, it's still fair to call it lying. In his own moral reality, metaphorically, Trump just buys big storage warehouses full of lies in bulk ahead of time, instead of paying for them one at a time like more honest people do.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
Yeah, ugh, these kinds of gimmicky promotions only underscore and make it obvious how unfair and dehumanizing our health care system and attitudes toward delivering it are; it's like throwing one of those tacky, huckstery fire sales for vital lifesaving medical services. It puts health care in that same sort of crass consumer marketing space as ginsu knife sets and snuggies, which undermines the idea that we really take everyone's health and well-being seriously as a public health issue. It seems to reflect an inherently undignified and cynically commercial way of thinking about human life and access to medical services. I'm sure the organizers' motives behind these sorts of campaigns are often genuinely good and rooted in a laudable impulse to expand healthcare access, but the way our culture markets everything kind of makes you picture juggling clowns and carnival barkers, like it's all just some lighthearted game or entertainment.
We've been over this. Using the word "liar" presumes intent.
I think with Trump there is often an intent to lie, he just doesn't let his conscious mind attend to that, he doesn't reflect on what he's doing enough that he ever owns his intentions, he just does whatever instinctually feels like the right tactical move in the situation to get bargaining leverage, without much regard for the context. I bet he's developed a cognitive habit of dissociation from his own lying and deception, as a survival tactic, to make it possible to lie more effectively without any guilt or moral compunction. I mean, if you pick up a habit of thought that astutely avoids reflecting on what you're doing when you lie, so you can do it more easily, in a way, it's never your specific intent in the moment to lie, but there is a sort of general contempt for truth imputed in each individual act of deception and so I think in that sense, it's still fair to call it lying. In his own moral reality, metaphorically, Trump just buys big storage warehouses full of lies in bulk ahead of time, instead of paying for them one at a time like more honest people do.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
"I figured it out: gay sex".
"We're doing the only thing we can do. If our government is just gonna let anybody into our time who wants to come, then we have to take matters into our own hands. We're trying to turn everyone gay so that there are no future humans! Present-day America Number One!"
posted by J.K. Seazer at 5:55 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
"We're doing the only thing we can do. If our government is just gonna let anybody into our time who wants to come, then we have to take matters into our own hands. We're trying to turn everyone gay so that there are no future humans! Present-day America Number One!"
posted by J.K. Seazer at 5:55 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
"I figured it out: gay sex"
Is that you Chuck Tingle?
posted by peeedro at 5:56 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Is that you Chuck Tingle?
posted by peeedro at 5:56 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
SacBee: Texas men would face fine for masturbating, need rectal exam for Viagra under proposed law
Farrar's bill penalizes masturbatory emissions outside a vagina or a medical facility, describing them as "an act against an unborn child" that fails to preserve "the sanctity of life."posted by Room 641-A at 6:09 AM on March 14, 2017 [63 favorites]
He's a bullshitter - liars are aware of the truth value of their statements, bullshitters don't care.
It's worse than that -- a bullshitter knows he's lying, and he knows that you know he's lying, but neither of you really cares, because the bullshit is a good story or you agree with the thesis underlying the bullshit or you just like the guy who's telling you this bullshit. Or, sometimes, because you desperately want to believe the bullshit.
posted by Etrigan at 6:14 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's worse than that -- a bullshitter knows he's lying, and he knows that you know he's lying, but neither of you really cares, because the bullshit is a good story or you agree with the thesis underlying the bullshit or you just like the guy who's telling you this bullshit. Or, sometimes, because you desperately want to believe the bullshit.
posted by Etrigan at 6:14 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
My guess is Bannon knows healthcare reform is going down in flames and they need a scapegoat. Luckily they have pretty boy establishment Paul Ryan to feed to the wolves.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
SacBee: Texas men would face fine for masturbating, need rectal exam for Viagra under proposed law
A year or two ago, I would immediately have thought "gee, obviously that's a 'law' intended to satirize the constraints placed on women". Now my first thought is, "This is some loony-toon anti-gay deal, of course".
Happily, it's still satire....how long will that be the case?
posted by Frowner at 6:19 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
A year or two ago, I would immediately have thought "gee, obviously that's a 'law' intended to satirize the constraints placed on women". Now my first thought is, "This is some loony-toon anti-gay deal, of course".
Happily, it's still satire....how long will that be the case?
posted by Frowner at 6:19 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
The thing about a postapocalyptic hellscape for Bannon is that at least nobody is going to want to eat him.
posted by Artw at 6:19 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:19 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
We could feed Paul Ryan to actual wolves.
The bees tried really hard; I appreciate the bees. But I think it's time to break out the large carnivores.
posted by Frowner at 6:20 AM on March 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
The bees tried really hard; I appreciate the bees. But I think it's time to break out the large carnivores.
posted by Frowner at 6:20 AM on March 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
It's like when we all ran out of evens and had to move on to fuck-this-es.
posted by Frowner at 6:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 6:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
The irony is that for all the GOP’s vindictiveness, the collateral damage would be born disproportionately by Trump’s own supporters
They are incredibly dumb, mean and self righteous. So while this will hit them hard they'll just dig in and blame liberals for it.
posted by Artw at 6:22 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
They are incredibly dumb, mean and self righteous. So while this will hit them hard they'll just dig in and blame liberals for it.
posted by Artw at 6:22 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Maybe this is Wendy Davis's time?
posted by Room 641-A at 6:23 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 6:23 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
The thing about a postapocalyptic hellscape for Bannon is that at least nobody is going to want to eat him.
All that fat and the liver already pickled? He'll be a delicacy.
posted by Talez at 6:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
All that fat and the liver already pickled? He'll be a delicacy.
posted by Talez at 6:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Jesus Christ, this "is it a lie?" shit again?
Is there any more succinct summary of the failures of the modern media than, "won't call out incredibly harmful lies because of a fine-grained linguistic distinction that 99.9% of readers/viewers are not aware of"?
posted by tocts at 6:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [67 favorites]
Is there any more succinct summary of the failures of the modern media than, "won't call out incredibly harmful lies because of a fine-grained linguistic distinction that 99.9% of readers/viewers are not aware of"?
posted by tocts at 6:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [67 favorites]
I've been pretty critical of media coverage (and I think everyone here has been), but I am starting to come around to Talez's position here that clamoring for NYT headlines starting with the phrase "Trump Lies On ______" are not productive for a couple reasons.
1) It's not going to change much. The media have had a year and a half to decide how they are going to cover Trump, and for the most part mainstream publications have decided that using phrasing that indicates wilful bad intent is not a road they are usually willing to go down. I don't agree objectively with that assessment (and I suspect most of the editors and writers also do believe that these are lies), but I understand where they are coming from institutionally. They believe that the risk to (idealistically) their ability to speak truth to power and/or the risk to (cynically) their brand is too great, given the viciousness with which the Administration will attack them over any slight, and they don't want to risk calling something a lie which may possibly turn out in the future to be spinnable as something else, and thus would give the Administration further grounds for calling them fake news / partisans.
2) It wouldn't matter anyway. Everyone who would be convinced is pretty much already there; everyone who needs to be convinced won't be convinced by a sharp USA Today headline. There are no magic words that CNN can put in a chyron which will save us.
Better to focus our energies on organizing against the actions of the government, and for the people who are being hurt or who are in danger, and for special elections and the midterms.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:30 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
1) It's not going to change much. The media have had a year and a half to decide how they are going to cover Trump, and for the most part mainstream publications have decided that using phrasing that indicates wilful bad intent is not a road they are usually willing to go down. I don't agree objectively with that assessment (and I suspect most of the editors and writers also do believe that these are lies), but I understand where they are coming from institutionally. They believe that the risk to (idealistically) their ability to speak truth to power and/or the risk to (cynically) their brand is too great, given the viciousness with which the Administration will attack them over any slight, and they don't want to risk calling something a lie which may possibly turn out in the future to be spinnable as something else, and thus would give the Administration further grounds for calling them fake news / partisans.
2) It wouldn't matter anyway. Everyone who would be convinced is pretty much already there; everyone who needs to be convinced won't be convinced by a sharp USA Today headline. There are no magic words that CNN can put in a chyron which will save us.
Better to focus our energies on organizing against the actions of the government, and for the people who are being hurt or who are in danger, and for special elections and the midterms.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:30 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
If one were genuinely bothered that knowledge of intent is needed to say "lie", how about "falsehood"?
In a way, we kind of brought this on ourselves, by indulging people who want us to think of whatever grabbag of idiocy and delusion a person believes in as "their truth".
posted by thelonius at 6:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
In a way, we kind of brought this on ourselves, by indulging people who want us to think of whatever grabbag of idiocy and delusion a person believes in as "their truth".
posted by thelonius at 6:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
One of the biggest differences between the proposed health care plan and the Affordable Care Act is that there would be no penalty for people who do not have health insurance. The CBO says lifting that requirement would be one of the biggest factors contributing to the increase in the number of uninsured.
Lets be honest. Most media outlets are stressing that x number of millions will lose their coverage.
They don't mention that millions of Americans who don't want insurance, who don't need insurance won't have to buy it so that others can pay less.
Trump's plan has many problems. Not commending it. Just pointing out that 24 millions being able to choose not to have insurance is not as evil sounding as 24 millions losing their insurance.
posted by 2manyusernames at 6:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lets be honest. Most media outlets are stressing that x number of millions will lose their coverage.
They don't mention that millions of Americans who don't want insurance, who don't need insurance won't have to buy it so that others can pay less.
Trump's plan has many problems. Not commending it. Just pointing out that 24 millions being able to choose not to have insurance is not as evil sounding as 24 millions losing their insurance.
posted by 2manyusernames at 6:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
it's one thing to not use the word lie, but it's another thing to not pin these fucks against the wall with every interview instead of lobbing softballs at them (or, as i like the call them, inskeep specials)
people getting upset about "lie" is a kind of shorthand for their FROTHING RAGE at the UTTER. FUCKING. FAILURE of the media
(sips coffee)
posted by entropicamericana at 6:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
people getting upset about "lie" is a kind of shorthand for their FROTHING RAGE at the UTTER. FUCKING. FAILURE of the media
(sips coffee)
posted by entropicamericana at 6:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
Also, in a real sense the argument that these outlets are being 'partisan' if they call out lies is... true.
The very existence of accessible truth is a partisan issue, now. And that's not a problem that the media are going to be able to solve for us either -- even if God tomorrow sends lightning from heaven to strike down the entire senior Administration staff.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:37 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
The very existence of accessible truth is a partisan issue, now. And that's not a problem that the media are going to be able to solve for us either -- even if God tomorrow sends lightning from heaven to strike down the entire senior Administration staff.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:37 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Agreed, and well said entropicamericana.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:38 AM on March 14, 2017
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:38 AM on March 14, 2017
I am beyond tired of this man blaming Obama for everything.
I don't even have a good analogy or metaphor for this. It goes way beyond the boy cried wolf.
Why do people keep listening and believing him. I sincerely don't understand.
(I am having a minor existential crisis over here. Don't mind me. I think the whole thing with the racist fuckhead Steve King broke something inside me yesterday)
posted by INFJ at 6:38 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't even have a good analogy or metaphor for this. It goes way beyond the boy cried wolf.
Why do people keep listening and believing him. I sincerely don't understand.
(I am having a minor existential crisis over here. Don't mind me. I think the whole thing with the racist fuckhead Steve King broke something inside me yesterday)
posted by INFJ at 6:38 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
They don't mention that millions of Americans who don't want insurance, who don't need insurance won't have to buy it so that others can pay less.
The only way any reform could possibly improve the economics of health insurance substantially using the insurance model is if everyone gets in the pool. That's how insurance works. If the policy goal isn't to encourage all the people who think they "don't need" insurance into the common pool, the policy is doing it wrong. The only other way to improve the system is to cut the middlemen out and go sole provider/nationalized health care. Even what they're trying to do here makes no sense as a way to improve anything about health care.
posted by saulgoodman at 6:40 AM on March 14, 2017 [36 favorites]
The only way any reform could possibly improve the economics of health insurance substantially using the insurance model is if everyone gets in the pool. That's how insurance works. If the policy goal isn't to encourage all the people who think they "don't need" insurance into the common pool, the policy is doing it wrong. The only other way to improve the system is to cut the middlemen out and go sole provider/nationalized health care. Even what they're trying to do here makes no sense as a way to improve anything about health care.
posted by saulgoodman at 6:40 AM on March 14, 2017 [36 favorites]
Trump's plan has many problems. Not commending it. Just pointing out that 24 millions being able to choose not to have insurance is not as evil sounding as 24 millions losing their insurance.
So what you're saying is everyone just needs to choose to have a million dollars and they'll be able to self-finance their care?
Well fuck, why didn't we think of that earlier?
posted by Talez at 6:41 AM on March 14, 2017 [43 favorites]
So what you're saying is everyone just needs to choose to have a million dollars and they'll be able to self-finance their care?
Well fuck, why didn't we think of that earlier?
posted by Talez at 6:41 AM on March 14, 2017 [43 favorites]
localhuman: "npr doing a puff piece on kelly anne conjob. if this was 1935 they'd be doing a soft profile on Goebbels"
That was on my local NPR station when I started the car this morning prompting me to lunge for the button for a music station so fast that I almost broke my index finger.
posted by octothorpe at 6:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
That was on my local NPR station when I started the car this morning prompting me to lunge for the button for a music station so fast that I almost broke my index finger.
posted by octothorpe at 6:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
Assuming Breitbart is still under WH control, I don't understand Bannon turning on Ryan. The Republicans put party before country only because they figured Trump to be useful with a pen. If that's no longer true, doesn't that free up the the silent cowards in House and Senate to turn on Trump? Doesn't it almost necessitate their turning on Trump?
posted by klarck at 6:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by klarck at 6:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
So what you're saying is everyone just needs to choose to have a million dollars and they'll be able to self-finance their care?
No, what they're saying is that many healthy people (young people, for instance) think they won't need health care that they can't afford, and so they don't buy insurance.
posted by Slothrup at 6:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
No, what they're saying is that many healthy people (young people, for instance) think they won't need health care that they can't afford, and so they don't buy insurance.
posted by Slothrup at 6:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
If the policy goal isn't to encourage all the people who think they "don't need" insurance into the common pool, the policy is doing it wrong.
I'm sure there would be lots of people who would decide they "didn't need" car insurance, too -- in fact, I know there are lots of people who do, because the last person to run into my car didn't have any. But if there weren't a law saying we had to have insurance, accidents would have a much greater cost than they do. Young, healthy people might not feel they need insurance, but if they do get sick or injured, they'll either go bankrupt paying for care -- hello, free market! -- or die prematurely. It's a cost to the system either way; the ACA just has fewer dead people at the end of the day.
The only other way to improve the system is to cut the middlemen out and go sole provider/nationalized health care.
I wish the Democrats would start pointing out that the main problem people have with the ACA is that it relies on the "market based solutions" Republicans claim to love so much by making people buy private insurance. I was disappointed that Claire McCaskill, in the NPR interview I cited earlier, didn't at least mention a public option, but baby steps, I guess.
posted by Gelatin at 6:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
I'm sure there would be lots of people who would decide they "didn't need" car insurance, too -- in fact, I know there are lots of people who do, because the last person to run into my car didn't have any. But if there weren't a law saying we had to have insurance, accidents would have a much greater cost than they do. Young, healthy people might not feel they need insurance, but if they do get sick or injured, they'll either go bankrupt paying for care -- hello, free market! -- or die prematurely. It's a cost to the system either way; the ACA just has fewer dead people at the end of the day.
The only other way to improve the system is to cut the middlemen out and go sole provider/nationalized health care.
I wish the Democrats would start pointing out that the main problem people have with the ACA is that it relies on the "market based solutions" Republicans claim to love so much by making people buy private insurance. I was disappointed that Claire McCaskill, in the NPR interview I cited earlier, didn't at least mention a public option, but baby steps, I guess.
posted by Gelatin at 6:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
I'm not sure I understand Bannon's master plan here.
1. Let Ryan roll out a healthcare bill that everybody hates.
2. Watch the bill fail.
3. Destroy Ryan.
4. ?
What the hell is step 4?
posted by diogenes at 6:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
1. Let Ryan roll out a healthcare bill that everybody hates.
2. Watch the bill fail.
3. Destroy Ryan.
4. ?
What the hell is step 4?
posted by diogenes at 6:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
Lets be honest. Most media outlets are stressing that x number of millions will lose their coverage.
Because it's true.
They don't mention that millions of Americans who don't want insurance, who don't need insurance won't have to buy it so that others can pay less.
[citation needed]
Trump's plan has many problems. Not commending it. Just pointing out that 24 millions being able to choose not to have insurance is not as evil sounding as 24 millions losing their insurance.
The CBO report stresses that millions will absolutely lose their insurance or be able to afford insurance at all if they need it. And then there's the people who will lose their guaranteed access to Medicaid or Medicare, both of which (like most single-payer insurance programs, and contrary to the assertions of conservatives and libertarians) regularly outstrip private insurance in terms of health outcomes, efficiency, and reducing overall and per capita costs of care.
So you can try and make it sound less evil all you want, but you'd basically be reciting Paul Ryan's zombie-eyed granny-starving talking points rather than stating anything based in reality.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [41 favorites]
Because it's true.
They don't mention that millions of Americans who don't want insurance, who don't need insurance won't have to buy it so that others can pay less.
[citation needed]
Trump's plan has many problems. Not commending it. Just pointing out that 24 millions being able to choose not to have insurance is not as evil sounding as 24 millions losing their insurance.
The CBO report stresses that millions will absolutely lose their insurance or be able to afford insurance at all if they need it. And then there's the people who will lose their guaranteed access to Medicaid or Medicare, both of which (like most single-payer insurance programs, and contrary to the assertions of conservatives and libertarians) regularly outstrip private insurance in terms of health outcomes, efficiency, and reducing overall and per capita costs of care.
So you can try and make it sound less evil all you want, but you'd basically be reciting Paul Ryan's zombie-eyed granny-starving talking points rather than stating anything based in reality.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [41 favorites]
Good news everyone: the RIP, in its majestic equality, allows both rich and poor alike to not have health care.
posted by tocts at 6:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by tocts at 6:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
Assuming Breitbart is still under WH control, I don't understand Bannon turning on Ryan. The Republicans put party before country only because they figured Trump to be useful with a pen. If that's no longer true, doesn't that free up the the silent cowards in House and Senate to turn on Trump? Doesn't it almost necessitate their turning on Trump?
The Senate couldn't give two fucks about house politics and half the Republicans in the house don't like Ryan either.
posted by Talez at 6:47 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Senate couldn't give two fucks about house politics and half the Republicans in the house don't like Ryan either.
posted by Talez at 6:47 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
One would think so, klarck, but to be honest we've thought that Republicans would've had a 'surely this' moment for at least a year, and up until now Bannon has had a better intuition for just how cowardly and craven the GOP is than have any of us.
Hopefully he is overreaching now, or will at some point in the near future. But given what we've seen to date, I'm not relying on that either.
Turns out I am particularly despondent today.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:48 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Hopefully he is overreaching now, or will at some point in the near future. But given what we've seen to date, I'm not relying on that either.
Turns out I am particularly despondent today.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:48 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's a power struggle for who will pull Trump's strings. Priebus and Ryan are too often getting in a yank here and there and Bannon doesn't like it.
Bannon honestly doesn't give a single solitary shit for getting anything "done" in the traditional sense of the word. He'd blow up the entire Republican Party tomorrow, if he could. He's confident that he could rule over the ashes, and he might not be wrong. Congressional GOPers are still terrified of their bases to openly wage war on the West Wing. They aren't answering to Trump so much as answering to the MAGAhat shitheads in their home districts. And half of them are MAGAhat shitheads themselves.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
Bannon honestly doesn't give a single solitary shit for getting anything "done" in the traditional sense of the word. He'd blow up the entire Republican Party tomorrow, if he could. He's confident that he could rule over the ashes, and he might not be wrong. Congressional GOPers are still terrified of their bases to openly wage war on the West Wing. They aren't answering to Trump so much as answering to the MAGAhat shitheads in their home districts. And half of them are MAGAhat shitheads themselves.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
That was on my local NPR station when I started the car this morning prompting me to lunge for the button for a music station so fast that I almost broke my index finger.
That's okay. You really only need the next one these days.
posted by Etrigan at 6:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [45 favorites]
That's okay. You really only need the next one these days.
posted by Etrigan at 6:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [45 favorites]
Lets be honest. Most media outlets are stressing that x number of millions will lose their coverage.
They don't mention that millions of Americans who don't want insurance, who don't need insurance won't have to buy it so that others can pay less.
Trump's plan has many problems. Not commending it. Just pointing out that 24 millions being able to choose not to have insurance is not as evil sounding as 24 millions losing their insurance.
You're not mentioning the reason why those people will lose coverage, because Republicans are cutting the subsidies that allow them to make that choice. Repulibcans could design a bill to allow the freedom to choose to not have insurance, just keep or increase the Obamacare subsidies and repeal the individual mandate. You want to get sick and refuse coverage, fine, but it's here for you if you change your mind, maybe with some penalties. That's not what they're doing. They're making the 'choice' for millions of people by providing wholly inadequate subsidies that will eventually cover literally nothing, because they start out inadequate, and are designed to trail cost increase to become even more inadequate. That's not making a choice to go without insurance, any more than today I chose not to buy a yacht.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [44 favorites]
They don't mention that millions of Americans who don't want insurance, who don't need insurance won't have to buy it so that others can pay less.
Trump's plan has many problems. Not commending it. Just pointing out that 24 millions being able to choose not to have insurance is not as evil sounding as 24 millions losing their insurance.
You're not mentioning the reason why those people will lose coverage, because Republicans are cutting the subsidies that allow them to make that choice. Repulibcans could design a bill to allow the freedom to choose to not have insurance, just keep or increase the Obamacare subsidies and repeal the individual mandate. You want to get sick and refuse coverage, fine, but it's here for you if you change your mind, maybe with some penalties. That's not what they're doing. They're making the 'choice' for millions of people by providing wholly inadequate subsidies that will eventually cover literally nothing, because they start out inadequate, and are designed to trail cost increase to become even more inadequate. That's not making a choice to go without insurance, any more than today I chose not to buy a yacht.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [44 favorites]
Republicans don't care if people die. It's not a factor in any decisions they make.
posted by INFJ at 6:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by INFJ at 6:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Priebus and Ryan are too often getting in a yank here and there and Bannon doesn't like it.
wait, what
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
wait, what
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
The insurance industry already has death panels and has had them for basically forever. They are called actuaries. Why has no one every talked about this before?
This is from way upthread, but as an actuary (though not a health actuary), I would like to point out that health actuaries have been pretty united in their opposition to the Republican healthcare bill. Though I'm not a health actuary, I get updates from the American Academy of Actuaries which represents all kinds of actuaries and I've been impressed with the way they lay out the issues with the proposed bill and the effort they are making to get the issues with the bill in front of Congress. For example, here is a paragraph from an issue brief they released about the problems with selling insurance across state lines:
If states are given more flexibility regarding issue and rating rules, adverse selection will occur.
Similar to the adverse selection problems arising if states have flexibility regarding benefit requirements, adverse selection would occur if states have flexibility regarding issue and rating rules. The ACA harmonized issue and rating rules, which previously had varied by state. Medical underwriting, previously allowed in most but not all states, was prohibited by the ACA; insurers can no longer deny coverage or charge higher premiums to individuals with health conditions. The ACA also limited the extent to which premiums could vary by age; prior to the ACA, some states prohibited premium variations by age, whereas others allowed unlimited variations. If insurers are allowed to sell across state lines and states are again given flexibility regarding issue and rating rules, insurers licensed in states with less restrictive rules will attract younger and healthier enrollees, whereas states with more restrictive rules will attract older and less-healthy enrollees. Premiums for insurance licensed in states with the more restrictive rules would increase, and the viability of those insurers would be threatened. As a result, older individuals and those with health problems could find it more difficult to obtain coverage.
Translation: Even if you live in MA or CA, you can still be screwed by this bill.
It's not the people who can do math who are pushing for this change.
posted by peacheater at 6:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [64 favorites]
This is from way upthread, but as an actuary (though not a health actuary), I would like to point out that health actuaries have been pretty united in their opposition to the Republican healthcare bill. Though I'm not a health actuary, I get updates from the American Academy of Actuaries which represents all kinds of actuaries and I've been impressed with the way they lay out the issues with the proposed bill and the effort they are making to get the issues with the bill in front of Congress. For example, here is a paragraph from an issue brief they released about the problems with selling insurance across state lines:
If states are given more flexibility regarding issue and rating rules, adverse selection will occur.
Similar to the adverse selection problems arising if states have flexibility regarding benefit requirements, adverse selection would occur if states have flexibility regarding issue and rating rules. The ACA harmonized issue and rating rules, which previously had varied by state. Medical underwriting, previously allowed in most but not all states, was prohibited by the ACA; insurers can no longer deny coverage or charge higher premiums to individuals with health conditions. The ACA also limited the extent to which premiums could vary by age; prior to the ACA, some states prohibited premium variations by age, whereas others allowed unlimited variations. If insurers are allowed to sell across state lines and states are again given flexibility regarding issue and rating rules, insurers licensed in states with less restrictive rules will attract younger and healthier enrollees, whereas states with more restrictive rules will attract older and less-healthy enrollees. Premiums for insurance licensed in states with the more restrictive rules would increase, and the viability of those insurers would be threatened. As a result, older individuals and those with health problems could find it more difficult to obtain coverage.
Translation: Even if you live in MA or CA, you can still be screwed by this bill.
It's not the people who can do math who are pushing for this change.
posted by peacheater at 6:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [64 favorites]
[i]citation needed[/i]
Some media sources are reporting that most of the reduction is from people choosing not to have insurance.
However from the report itself:
CBO and JCT estimate that,
in 2018, 14 million more people would be uninsured under the
legislation than under current law. Most of that increase would stem from repealing the
penalties associated with the individual mandate.
https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/americanhealthcareact_0.pdf
The fact is that many people don't want and don't insurance, especially not the kind mandated by ObamaCare. The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
posted by 2manyusernames at 6:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Some media sources are reporting that most of the reduction is from people choosing not to have insurance.
However from the report itself:
CBO and JCT estimate that,
in 2018, 14 million more people would be uninsured under the
legislation than under current law. Most of that increase would stem from repealing the
penalties associated with the individual mandate.
https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/americanhealthcareact_0.pdf
The fact is that many people don't want and don't insurance, especially not the kind mandated by ObamaCare. The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
posted by 2manyusernames at 6:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
The responses of Montana's elected officials to the ACA fuckaroo are a pretty interesting as an example of what interparty state unity could theoretically look like.
Bullock (D Governor, narrowly won re-election in '16): a "troubling step backwards [...] Ripping health care away from thousands of Montanans, cutting off the lifeline to our hospitals, and keeping our taxpayer dollars back in Washington, D.C., is a sucker-punch to rural states like Montana."
Daines (R Senator, shitbag, but representing a state whose GOP seems to want to keep the medicaid expansion, probably because our poor are mostly white): "We need to do better. [...] I want to see costs and premiums go down to make health care more affordable for Montana families."
Tester (D Senator, up for re-election in '18, clearly scared shitless and trying so hard to not look like a filthy liberal): called the Republican bill "reckless" and said Congress "should work together to improve the Affordable Care Act instead of dismantling it."
We'll see how Daines actually votes but I suspect he might vote the right way if gets as far as the senate. And if we all survive that long, ha ha ha sob
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Bullock (D Governor, narrowly won re-election in '16): a "troubling step backwards [...] Ripping health care away from thousands of Montanans, cutting off the lifeline to our hospitals, and keeping our taxpayer dollars back in Washington, D.C., is a sucker-punch to rural states like Montana."
Daines (R Senator, shitbag, but representing a state whose GOP seems to want to keep the medicaid expansion, probably because our poor are mostly white): "We need to do better. [...] I want to see costs and premiums go down to make health care more affordable for Montana families."
Tester (D Senator, up for re-election in '18, clearly scared shitless and trying so hard to not look like a filthy liberal): called the Republican bill "reckless" and said Congress "should work together to improve the Affordable Care Act instead of dismantling it."
We'll see how Daines actually votes but I suspect he might vote the right way if gets as far as the senate. And if we all survive that long, ha ha ha sob
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
wait, what
I am so, so sorry for this entirely unintentional mental image.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
I am so, so sorry for this entirely unintentional mental image.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
The fact is that many people don't want and don't insurance, especially not the kind mandated by ObamaCare. The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
Until the young healthy person gets lymphoma or leukemia or they drop an anvil on their foot. Then we let them choose to... whatever? Pay half a million in chemo to stay alive? Let them onto insurance that they've never paid for? Let them die?
Those are the options available and none of these options are better than mandating people buy insurance subsidized down to affordable for their income levels.
posted by Talez at 6:57 AM on March 14, 2017 [58 favorites]
Until the young healthy person gets lymphoma or leukemia or they drop an anvil on their foot. Then we let them choose to... whatever? Pay half a million in chemo to stay alive? Let them onto insurance that they've never paid for? Let them die?
Those are the options available and none of these options are better than mandating people buy insurance subsidized down to affordable for their income levels.
posted by Talez at 6:57 AM on March 14, 2017 [58 favorites]
All these people are driving me fucking crazy, btw.
IT'S CALLED SINGLE PAYER! THE TERM YOU ARE LOOKING FOR IS "SINGLE PAYER".
"Hmmm. We want a system where everyone can get health care regardless of ability to pay, and where people who are elderly, disabled, or poor can still get quality health care from the nearest and most convenient source. Where everyone pays in in an easy-to-understand and equitable fashion so that no one is caught without coverage when they step off a curb and get hit by a bus at the age of 25. If only there were such a thing. Shame there's not. Guess we just have to cobble something together with spare parts and hope it limps along a couple more years."
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:59 AM on March 14, 2017 [144 favorites]
IT'S CALLED SINGLE PAYER! THE TERM YOU ARE LOOKING FOR IS "SINGLE PAYER".
"Hmmm. We want a system where everyone can get health care regardless of ability to pay, and where people who are elderly, disabled, or poor can still get quality health care from the nearest and most convenient source. Where everyone pays in in an easy-to-understand and equitable fashion so that no one is caught without coverage when they step off a curb and get hit by a bus at the age of 25. If only there were such a thing. Shame there's not. Guess we just have to cobble something together with spare parts and hope it limps along a couple more years."
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:59 AM on March 14, 2017 [144 favorites]
Guess we just have to cobble something together with spare parts and hope it limps along a couple more years.
The phrase you are looking for is "Fuck Joe Lieberman".
posted by Talez at 7:00 AM on March 14, 2017 [57 favorites]
The phrase you are looking for is "Fuck Joe Lieberman".
posted by Talez at 7:00 AM on March 14, 2017 [57 favorites]
A healthcare system that is not shitty is not on the table right now. Shitty or on fire, radioactive AND shitty are you choices.
posted by Artw at 7:01 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:01 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
The fact is that many people don't want and don't insurance, especially not the kind mandated by ObamaCare.
The kind "mandated by ObamaCare" is insurance that actually covers health care, as opposed to dirt-cheap, high-deductible, low-maximum-payout policies that are basically worthless.
That aside, people may perceive that they don't need insurance, but as with my auto insurance example cited above, people are generally terrible at perceiving risk.
The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
Is that you, Speaker Ryan? Because as many people pointed out with Ryan's baffling comment over the weekend, yes, that's how insurance works. The system needs young, healthy people that don't get sick to participate in the risk pool. Not even the Republicans are willing to -- or willing to admit wanting to -- axe the requirement that insurers provide coverage to those with pre-existing conditions, so it won't work to let young, healthy people wait until they develop a health crisis to buy insurance.
posted by Gelatin at 7:01 AM on March 14, 2017 [45 favorites]
The kind "mandated by ObamaCare" is insurance that actually covers health care, as opposed to dirt-cheap, high-deductible, low-maximum-payout policies that are basically worthless.
That aside, people may perceive that they don't need insurance, but as with my auto insurance example cited above, people are generally terrible at perceiving risk.
The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
Is that you, Speaker Ryan? Because as many people pointed out with Ryan's baffling comment over the weekend, yes, that's how insurance works. The system needs young, healthy people that don't get sick to participate in the risk pool. Not even the Republicans are willing to -- or willing to admit wanting to -- axe the requirement that insurers provide coverage to those with pre-existing conditions, so it won't work to let young, healthy people wait until they develop a health crisis to buy insurance.
posted by Gelatin at 7:01 AM on March 14, 2017 [45 favorites]
Every day of the week and twice on Sundays, Talez.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:01 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:01 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
One of the biggest differences between the proposed health care plan and the Affordable Care Act is that there would be no penalty for people who do not have health insurance. The CBO says lifting that requirement would be one of the biggest factors contributing to the increase in the number of uninsured.
Lets be honest. Most media outlets are stressing that x number of millions will lose their coverage.
They don't mention that millions of Americans who don't want insurance, who don't need insurance won't have to buy it so that others can pay less.
Actually the media has reported that Paul Ryan has made this claim-- that the 14 million who will lose their insurance immediately include those who no longer will be forced to buy insurance. The problem is that there is no break down in numbers differentiating between those who don't want to pay any money to be insured and those who do want insurance but will no longer be able to afford to buy it under RyanCare.
I do know that the town halls have been filled with hundreds and thousands of terrified people who fear losing their insurance and I am much more worried about them then that young guy who hates being told by his government that he has to buy insurance or otherwise pay a small penalty.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:05 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Lets be honest. Most media outlets are stressing that x number of millions will lose their coverage.
They don't mention that millions of Americans who don't want insurance, who don't need insurance won't have to buy it so that others can pay less.
Actually the media has reported that Paul Ryan has made this claim-- that the 14 million who will lose their insurance immediately include those who no longer will be forced to buy insurance. The problem is that there is no break down in numbers differentiating between those who don't want to pay any money to be insured and those who do want insurance but will no longer be able to afford to buy it under RyanCare.
I do know that the town halls have been filled with hundreds and thousands of terrified people who fear losing their insurance and I am much more worried about them then that young guy who hates being told by his government that he has to buy insurance or otherwise pay a small penalty.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:05 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
axe the requirement that insurers provide coverage to those with pre-existing conditions, so it won't work to let young, healthy people wait until they develop a health crisis to buy insurance
Acquiring life crippling debt is apparently an appropriate punishment for rolling the dice on what would normally be a perfectly acceptable risk to anyone sane. You should have bought insurance y'know. It's just like the kid who gets shot in the process of shoplifting a stick of gun. If they didn't do the crime they'd still be alive. Never mind that it's sociofuckingpathic in the big picture, actions have consequences yo.
posted by Talez at 7:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
Acquiring life crippling debt is apparently an appropriate punishment for rolling the dice on what would normally be a perfectly acceptable risk to anyone sane. You should have bought insurance y'know. It's just like the kid who gets shot in the process of shoplifting a stick of gun. If they didn't do the crime they'd still be alive. Never mind that it's sociofuckingpathic in the big picture, actions have consequences yo.
posted by Talez at 7:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
The fact is that many people don't want and don't insurance, especially not the kind mandated by ObamaCare.
There is no specific care mandated by the ACA, just insurance that meets very specific requirements.
The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
Yes, as any health care expert will tell you, you've just described the concept of health insurance. You still haven't provided any citations for your assertions as "fact" that:
a) "millions" of Americans don't want or need insurance
b) those who don't want or need health insurance are doing it to reduce costs
c) doing so would reduce health care costs (or as you put it "others can pay less")
All of which is moot, because even voluntarily removing themselves would raise costs, not reduce them, as we've seen. The ACA has already made progress in reducing costs, but of course what has been proven to be even more effective to reduce costs at both an individual level and for countries as a whole is single-payer health care.
Much like anthropogenic climate change and LGBTQ rights, outside the right-wing crazysphere news bubble there's near-consensus on these very basic concepts. Maybe instead of parroting a sociopathic monster like Ryan, do a little research instead.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:07 AM on March 14, 2017 [46 favorites]
There is no specific care mandated by the ACA, just insurance that meets very specific requirements.
The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
Yes, as any health care expert will tell you, you've just described the concept of health insurance. You still haven't provided any citations for your assertions as "fact" that:
a) "millions" of Americans don't want or need insurance
b) those who don't want or need health insurance are doing it to reduce costs
c) doing so would reduce health care costs (or as you put it "others can pay less")
All of which is moot, because even voluntarily removing themselves would raise costs, not reduce them, as we've seen. The ACA has already made progress in reducing costs, but of course what has been proven to be even more effective to reduce costs at both an individual level and for countries as a whole is single-payer health care.
Much like anthropogenic climate change and LGBTQ rights, outside the right-wing crazysphere news bubble there's near-consensus on these very basic concepts. Maybe instead of parroting a sociopathic monster like Ryan, do a little research instead.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:07 AM on March 14, 2017 [46 favorites]
The fact is that many people don't want and don't insurance, especially not the kind mandated by ObamaCare. The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
You know how many children I have? Zero children! You know how many cars I drive? Zero cars! For all of me, society could run with no schools and no streets, just bike paths and sidewalks. And yet here I am, paying into the system so that others can pay less for the roads and schools that they use and I do not. For that matter, at present I have zero disabilities that prevent me from working, and I can also afford all of my own food. And yet here I am, paying taxes that support disability and SNAP. Sucks to be me, right?
Also, you know what? I'm not even old, and yet here I am paying taxes that support all these programs for old people. Why do I have to do that? I guess I could start paying when I'm actually old myself, maybe that would be fair.
Seriously, people, I think there's two kinds of people in the world, folks who think "huh, society is kind of shitty when other people are dying in the street and/or getting crap educations and/or being malnourished and/or being homeless, also when we have this kind of society economic growth is difficult to sustain" and folks who think "the most important thing in life is that I not pay for something that does not actually literally directly benefit me, like when I buy a coke, or some coke".
posted by Frowner at 7:07 AM on March 14, 2017 [285 favorites]
You know how many children I have? Zero children! You know how many cars I drive? Zero cars! For all of me, society could run with no schools and no streets, just bike paths and sidewalks. And yet here I am, paying into the system so that others can pay less for the roads and schools that they use and I do not. For that matter, at present I have zero disabilities that prevent me from working, and I can also afford all of my own food. And yet here I am, paying taxes that support disability and SNAP. Sucks to be me, right?
Also, you know what? I'm not even old, and yet here I am paying taxes that support all these programs for old people. Why do I have to do that? I guess I could start paying when I'm actually old myself, maybe that would be fair.
Seriously, people, I think there's two kinds of people in the world, folks who think "huh, society is kind of shitty when other people are dying in the street and/or getting crap educations and/or being malnourished and/or being homeless, also when we have this kind of society economic growth is difficult to sustain" and folks who think "the most important thing in life is that I not pay for something that does not actually literally directly benefit me, like when I buy a coke, or some coke".
posted by Frowner at 7:07 AM on March 14, 2017 [285 favorites]
Yeah, let's be real clear here: there's no such thing as someone who "doesn't need health insurance" in the US. There's only people who are willing to gamble that going without it won't ruin them, often for very short-sighted reasons.
posted by tocts at 7:08 AM on March 14, 2017 [119 favorites]
posted by tocts at 7:08 AM on March 14, 2017 [119 favorites]
I'm holding an "Ides of Trump" postcard writing event tonight, so I decided to print some address labels (man, these newbie activists really need hand-holding for even a low-level of action. SO many people needing me to bring postcards for them, etc etc :/) to make it as easy as possible.
My thought process: "So, I know that it is 1600 Pennsylvania, but not the ZIP...*Googles* Ah, I'll check out this page at whitehouse.gov. OK, 20500 is the ZIP. Wait. I'd better double-check that ZIP somewhere else. I mean, it is possible they have the ZIP wrong here at whitehouse.gov, whether by accident or malicious intent. OMG. How awful IS this? I don't trust this government to tell me the goddamn ZIP code." And now I feel exhausted and sad.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:09 AM on March 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
My thought process: "So, I know that it is 1600 Pennsylvania, but not the ZIP...*Googles* Ah, I'll check out this page at whitehouse.gov. OK, 20500 is the ZIP. Wait. I'd better double-check that ZIP somewhere else. I mean, it is possible they have the ZIP wrong here at whitehouse.gov, whether by accident or malicious intent. OMG. How awful IS this? I don't trust this government to tell me the goddamn ZIP code." And now I feel exhausted and sad.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:09 AM on March 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
Yeah, let's be real clear here: there's no such thing as someone who "doesn't need health insurance" in the US. There's only people who are willing to gamble that going without it won't ruin them, often for very short-sighted reasons.
And many who are willing to say they don't need insurance just so they can guarantee that Those People don't get it either.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:09 AM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
And many who are willing to say they don't need insurance just so they can guarantee that Those People don't get it either.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:09 AM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
If you don't want health insurance then you must legally be required to never use any kind of automobile (as either driver or passenger), own a gun, eat refined sugar and red meat or go out in the sun without SPF 50 sunblock sprayed on you like clown paint.
posted by PenDevil at 7:14 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 7:14 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm not sure I understand Bannon's master plan here.
1. Let Ryan roll out a healthcare bill that everybody hates.
2. Watch the bill fail.
3. Destroy Ryan.
4. ?
What the hell is step 4?
OH I know this one.
4. Consolidate control of all branches of government in the white supremacist / Confederazi wing of the GOP.
5. Start rolling out entitlements for only "natural citizens" or "provable citizens" or whatever hellish euphemism they'd use
And then 6-10 get really grim
posted by schadenfrau at 7:15 AM on March 14, 2017 [43 favorites]
1. Let Ryan roll out a healthcare bill that everybody hates.
2. Watch the bill fail.
3. Destroy Ryan.
4. ?
What the hell is step 4?
OH I know this one.
4. Consolidate control of all branches of government in the white supremacist / Confederazi wing of the GOP.
5. Start rolling out entitlements for only "natural citizens" or "provable citizens" or whatever hellish euphemism they'd use
And then 6-10 get really grim
posted by schadenfrau at 7:15 AM on March 14, 2017 [43 favorites]
Just because you're scotch-irish, it doesn't mean that you're literally a Highlander.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by dinty_moore at 7:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
think they won't need health care that they can't afford, and so they don't buy insurance.
you are literally retelling the fable of the fox and the grapes and treating it as a scathing indictment of the fox for lacking the sophisticated palate to appreciate a fine grape
but you see he couldn't reach the fucking grapes.
"CAN'T AFFORD" man, you wrote it yourself
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [56 favorites]
you are literally retelling the fable of the fox and the grapes and treating it as a scathing indictment of the fox for lacking the sophisticated palate to appreciate a fine grape
but you see he couldn't reach the fucking grapes.
"CAN'T AFFORD" man, you wrote it yourself
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [56 favorites]
The NYT's Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Sharon LaFraniere have an in-depth report on the slow Trump transition and all the unfilled positions: Trump Lets Key Offices Gather Dust Amid ‘Slowest Transition in Decades’
At the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis is overseeing missions in Iraq, Afghanistan and Yemen without his own leadership team.posted by Room 641-A at 7:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
folks who think "the most important thing in life is that I not pay for something that does not actually literally directly benefit me, like when I buy a coke, or some coke".
I had a roommate once who Post It-noted everything in the apartment she was afraid I might use with "Mine, Not Yours." She once had her boyfriend (who actually looked a little like Paul Ryan) give me a lecture about personal responsiblity when I, unthinkingly, used some of her milk.
We're not really friends anymore, but she went to work for a Republican Congressperson shortly after college. I like to imagine her, wherever she is, walking through offices, driving down the street, visiting the hospital, armed with an endless supply of Post-Its, labeling everything Mine Not Yours, Mine Not Yours, Mine Not Yours.
posted by thivaia at 7:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [124 favorites]
I had a roommate once who Post It-noted everything in the apartment she was afraid I might use with "Mine, Not Yours." She once had her boyfriend (who actually looked a little like Paul Ryan) give me a lecture about personal responsiblity when I, unthinkingly, used some of her milk.
We're not really friends anymore, but she went to work for a Republican Congressperson shortly after college. I like to imagine her, wherever she is, walking through offices, driving down the street, visiting the hospital, armed with an endless supply of Post-Its, labeling everything Mine Not Yours, Mine Not Yours, Mine Not Yours.
posted by thivaia at 7:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [124 favorites]
People who think they are never going to use the health care that insurance gets them access to are deluded and need to be saved from themselves.
I suspect that if you quizzed them for long enough on the what-ifs, you'd get them to admit that what they are actually relying on is the fact that a hospital can't actually turn them away should they show up with grievous injuries, and that they wouldn't have to pay for it--not really. Someone somewhere would take care of that for them, I mean you can't just stick someone with a $2 million doctor bill, right?
Yeah, wrong. I've seen the receipts.
People who want health insurance but can't afford it and are making the gamble to go without because it's either that or pay rent, I definitely feel for and I want them to be able to get more help (and I also want that help to get them real insurance, not catastrophic garbage that does nothing). The people who are all "La la la I don't need no health insurance, I'm totes healthy and why should I have to pay for ladies and their boobie exams anyway amirite?" can go find a nice plot of land in Antarctica and set up their little self-reliant fiefdome of one.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:22 AM on March 14, 2017 [54 favorites]
I suspect that if you quizzed them for long enough on the what-ifs, you'd get them to admit that what they are actually relying on is the fact that a hospital can't actually turn them away should they show up with grievous injuries, and that they wouldn't have to pay for it--not really. Someone somewhere would take care of that for them, I mean you can't just stick someone with a $2 million doctor bill, right?
Yeah, wrong. I've seen the receipts.
People who want health insurance but can't afford it and are making the gamble to go without because it's either that or pay rent, I definitely feel for and I want them to be able to get more help (and I also want that help to get them real insurance, not catastrophic garbage that does nothing). The people who are all "La la la I don't need no health insurance, I'm totes healthy and why should I have to pay for ladies and their boobie exams anyway amirite?" can go find a nice plot of land in Antarctica and set up their little self-reliant fiefdome of one.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:22 AM on March 14, 2017 [54 favorites]
but as with my auto insurance example cited above, people are generally terrible at perceiving risk.
Bottom line, that aspect of it has nothing specifically to do with ObamaCare. The only way to get better coverage and outcomes and make insurance provided health care more economically efficient is to either take away the choice and force everyone into the pool, or give them incentives so they can pretend they're making a choice for their own reasons. That's a consequence of how insurance works, nothing to do with ObamaCare, specifically, except that its approach was to try to force everybody into the pool until the penalties got softened (I never liked the idea of a penalty mechanism personally anyway--in most cases, we'd be penalizing the working poor and lower earners, which stings emotionally on the receiving end--though I'm not sure there's a better alternative that both protects the health insurance industry as an institution and drives down costs).
posted by saulgoodman at 7:25 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Bottom line, that aspect of it has nothing specifically to do with ObamaCare. The only way to get better coverage and outcomes and make insurance provided health care more economically efficient is to either take away the choice and force everyone into the pool, or give them incentives so they can pretend they're making a choice for their own reasons. That's a consequence of how insurance works, nothing to do with ObamaCare, specifically, except that its approach was to try to force everybody into the pool until the penalties got softened (I never liked the idea of a penalty mechanism personally anyway--in most cases, we'd be penalizing the working poor and lower earners, which stings emotionally on the receiving end--though I'm not sure there's a better alternative that both protects the health insurance industry as an institution and drives down costs).
posted by saulgoodman at 7:25 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
thivaia, i imagine you countering with post-its that read 'Yours, Not Mine' (like a countersigned document)
posted by kokaku at 7:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 7:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
back when I was, apparently, too young to be permitted to live, I had a serious health problem that required intense and frequent and expensive physical therapy. the glory of worker's compensation took care of that for a time until they got wise to the fact that I didn't know how the fuck anything worked so they could cut me off when they got bored with paying for it because what was I going to do about it, seriously?
but if I had been paying my own insurance premiums back then the way I am now, I would not have been able to afford any treatment whatsoever except for some covered back surgery which would have been more expensive to the insurance company but very much not a good idea. I assume the insurance execs are willing to pay for that but not for very much PT because surgery could leave me paralyzed or in permanent chronic pain, so the excitement of getting to do that to me balances out the dollar cost to them. makes sense I guess.
Why not just pay for the billion PT appts myself, in this alternate world where I was on "Obamacare" as a youth instead of now? Well, under these circumstances I have a spare few hundred dollars a month that are just enough for physical therapy appointments as long as I need them but by a happy coincidence that is exactly what my health insurance premiums cost. So, luckily for society, I am nice and responsible and do my duty and if I get hit by a car I will be covered, but if I cared to maximize my own health care this is not the way I would do it. Paying for health insurance -- "good" health insurance, the second most expensive kind provided for individual sale in my region! is EXACTLY the thing preventing me from accessing health care.
thanks, everybody who thinks "health insurance" is a worthy goal rather than actual health care. works great.
tl;dr "young people secretly all want to die because pain is the new twerking or planking or I don't know what youths do because I am old now, and also they are stupid because they are poor I guess"
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:29 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
but if I had been paying my own insurance premiums back then the way I am now, I would not have been able to afford any treatment whatsoever except for some covered back surgery which would have been more expensive to the insurance company but very much not a good idea. I assume the insurance execs are willing to pay for that but not for very much PT because surgery could leave me paralyzed or in permanent chronic pain, so the excitement of getting to do that to me balances out the dollar cost to them. makes sense I guess.
Why not just pay for the billion PT appts myself, in this alternate world where I was on "Obamacare" as a youth instead of now? Well, under these circumstances I have a spare few hundred dollars a month that are just enough for physical therapy appointments as long as I need them but by a happy coincidence that is exactly what my health insurance premiums cost. So, luckily for society, I am nice and responsible and do my duty and if I get hit by a car I will be covered, but if I cared to maximize my own health care this is not the way I would do it. Paying for health insurance -- "good" health insurance, the second most expensive kind provided for individual sale in my region! is EXACTLY the thing preventing me from accessing health care.
thanks, everybody who thinks "health insurance" is a worthy goal rather than actual health care. works great.
tl;dr "young people secretly all want to die because pain is the new twerking or planking or I don't know what youths do because I am old now, and also they are stupid because they are poor I guess"
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:29 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
localhuman: npr doing a puff piece on kelly anne conjob. if this was 1935 they'd be doing a soft profile on Goebbels
'The Atlantic' Examines Trump Adviser Kellyanne Conway is probably the piece you mentioned, and I'm not quite sure that stacks up to puff piece. It depicted Conway as a mid-level political consultant who jumped from working for a super PAC that supported Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and being critical of Trump to his #1liar teller of alternative facts.
Where was the puff? I mean, it wasn't nails and acid, but it wasn't a Thomas Kinkade portrait, either.
Here's the Atlantic article in question, which comes out with more barbs than the NPR piece:
posted by filthy light thief at 7:30 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
'The Atlantic' Examines Trump Adviser Kellyanne Conway is probably the piece you mentioned, and I'm not quite sure that stacks up to puff piece. It depicted Conway as a mid-level political consultant who jumped from working for a super PAC that supported Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and being critical of Trump to his #1
Where was the puff? I mean, it wasn't nails and acid, but it wasn't a Thomas Kinkade portrait, either.
Here's the Atlantic article in question, which comes out with more barbs than the NPR piece:
Even in triumph, Kellyanne Conway nursed a grudge. As she reflected on Donald Trump’s November victory, she made clear that she hadn’t forgotten how people treated her back when they thought she was a sure loser. Their attitude wasn’t one of outright rudeness or contempt; it was so much worse than that. It was syrupy condescension—the smarmy, indulgent niceness of people who think they’re better than you.Best description of Kellyanne's rhetorical style: "verbal fog."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:30 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
The entire health insurance industry needs to be blown up because you can choose to not have a car but you can't choose to not have a body. Single payer, single payer, single payer.
Failing that (and we are very much failing that right now), however, the only thing that even makes it work is everyone participating. Which is why at my job if you pass on the sponsored health insurance, you have to show proof that you are somehow getting covered some other way.
(And yes, I have in fact met people who legit think that they will not ever need health care--they don't go to the doctor, they take care of themselves, it's only those stupid people who don't lift, bro, who need health insurance. They could pay, they just won't, because it's a sign of weakness or some shit.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [41 favorites]
Failing that (and we are very much failing that right now), however, the only thing that even makes it work is everyone participating. Which is why at my job if you pass on the sponsored health insurance, you have to show proof that you are somehow getting covered some other way.
(And yes, I have in fact met people who legit think that they will not ever need health care--they don't go to the doctor, they take care of themselves, it's only those stupid people who don't lift, bro, who need health insurance. They could pay, they just won't, because it's a sign of weakness or some shit.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [41 favorites]
Reading the Atlantic piece on Kellyanne Conway, I'm thinking that this is rather akin to finding out someone who enjoyed torturing animals as a child ended up a serial killer...
Frank Luntz, the Republican pollster and messaging guru, met Conway in the 1980s at Oxford University, when he was in graduate school and she was on an undergraduate year abroad from Trinity Washington University, in D.C. Lonely, homesick, and surrounded by stuffy Brits, Luntz was immediately drawn to Conway. “She already was political, and right of center,” he recalled. “The smile, the blond hair, the vivaciousness, a little bit flirtatious—she was just fun.”
One time, she and a couple of friends took Luntz shopping and made him try on a Speedo so they could laugh at him. “I’ve been fat for, like, 15 years, but I wasn’t always fat,” he told me. “Nevertheless, a guy like me should not put on a Speedo.” This sounded humiliating and cruel to me, but Luntz insisted it was hilarious.
And not to put too fine a point on it, but I read "Lonely, homesick, and surrounded by stuffy Brits, Luntz was immediately drawn to Conway" as more like "Being around people who were just so different from him bugged the shit out of Luntz. So he sought out company he could be comfortable with: another loudmouth American asshole."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:36 AM on March 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
Frank Luntz, the Republican pollster and messaging guru, met Conway in the 1980s at Oxford University, when he was in graduate school and she was on an undergraduate year abroad from Trinity Washington University, in D.C. Lonely, homesick, and surrounded by stuffy Brits, Luntz was immediately drawn to Conway. “She already was political, and right of center,” he recalled. “The smile, the blond hair, the vivaciousness, a little bit flirtatious—she was just fun.”
One time, she and a couple of friends took Luntz shopping and made him try on a Speedo so they could laugh at him. “I’ve been fat for, like, 15 years, but I wasn’t always fat,” he told me. “Nevertheless, a guy like me should not put on a Speedo.” This sounded humiliating and cruel to me, but Luntz insisted it was hilarious.
And not to put too fine a point on it, but I read "Lonely, homesick, and surrounded by stuffy Brits, Luntz was immediately drawn to Conway" as more like "Being around people who were just so different from him bugged the shit out of Luntz. So he sought out company he could be comfortable with: another loudmouth American asshole."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:36 AM on March 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
It's almost as if, in order to pass significant legislation packages that benefit the common good -- let's call it a Fresh Opportunity or a Revised Distribution of Cards or something like that -- our nation first needs a long period of devastating economic catastrophe in which it is driven home irrevocably into the mind of the common man that No One Actually Gives A Fuck About Them, No One Will Catch Them When They Fall, The Lives That Are Being Destroyed May Be Their Own Regardless Of How Well Organized And Phrased Their Prayers To God Are, And The People With The Money Are Only Looking Out For Number One And Number One Ain't You, You Ain't Even Number Two.
So buckle up.
posted by delfin at 7:37 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
So buckle up.
posted by delfin at 7:37 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yeah, let's be real clear here: there's no such thing as someone who "doesn't need health insurance" in the US.Sure there is. Warren Buffett, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates and Michael Bloomberg can all self-finance any medical care that they could possibly need. If you are literally a billionaire, you probably don't need insurance in the US. This is just an honest philosophical difference about whether our government should care more about the interests of the 150 people at the top of the American economic pyramid or the 300-odd million nearer to the bottom.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:38 AM on March 14, 2017 [32 favorites]
yeah plus never ever think people can't be dumb enough to think that medical shit is just as cheap for a self-payer as it is for them with their good good government-staffer insurance. (How much could an MRI cost, Michael? Fifty dollars?)
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:41 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:41 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Former NC Gov. Pat McCrory: ‘People are Reluctant to Hire Me, Because ‘Oh My Gosh, He’s a Bigot”
What a whiny manbaby. After all, if the shoe fits...
posted by zombieflanders at 7:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [38 favorites]
What a whiny manbaby. After all, if the shoe fits...
posted by zombieflanders at 7:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [38 favorites]
How much could an MRI cost, Michael? Fifty dollars?
I'll be able to tell you that real soon, because my wife fell in the shower last week and injured her neck. She ended up with a couple of bulging discs in her neck, for which all she can do is rest and not do anything strenuous. The ER copay was $300, but we have not yet received the itemized stuff like X-Ray, MRI, CAT scan, the meds they gave her while she was in the ER, and so on.
I had outpatient surgery for a tonsillectomy several years ago. My copay was $1,000, but the itemized costs reached over $26,000.
This stuff adds up real fast.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:48 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
I'll be able to tell you that real soon, because my wife fell in the shower last week and injured her neck. She ended up with a couple of bulging discs in her neck, for which all she can do is rest and not do anything strenuous. The ER copay was $300, but we have not yet received the itemized stuff like X-Ray, MRI, CAT scan, the meds they gave her while she was in the ER, and so on.
I had outpatient surgery for a tonsillectomy several years ago. My copay was $1,000, but the itemized costs reached over $26,000.
This stuff adds up real fast.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:48 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Sure there is. Warren Buffett, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates and Michael Bloomberg can all self-finance any medical care that they could possibly need. If you are literally a billionaire, you probably don't need insurance in the US.
I've known several billionaires and near-billionaires (professionally). They all had health insurance and/or citizenship to a country with universal healthcare. Because they know that self insuring your healthcare costs - and, more importantly, those of your kids - is a stupid thing to do financially, even if you have essentially unlimited money.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [61 favorites]
I've known several billionaires and near-billionaires (professionally). They all had health insurance and/or citizenship to a country with universal healthcare. Because they know that self insuring your healthcare costs - and, more importantly, those of your kids - is a stupid thing to do financially, even if you have essentially unlimited money.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [61 favorites]
I had outpatient surgery for a tonsillectomy several years ago. My copay was $1,000, but the itemized costs reached over $26,000.
It's a crying shame that part of the reason for the incredibly screwed-up cost structure of modern health care is that prices are set artificially high so they can be negotiated down with various insurance companies, and of course because so much of modern health care is run by for-profit companies. I daresay that no one knows want an MRI really costs, though one could probably collect a dozen wildly disparate billing examples.
posted by Gelatin at 7:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
It's a crying shame that part of the reason for the incredibly screwed-up cost structure of modern health care is that prices are set artificially high so they can be negotiated down with various insurance companies, and of course because so much of modern health care is run by for-profit companies. I daresay that no one knows want an MRI really costs, though one could probably collect a dozen wildly disparate billing examples.
posted by Gelatin at 7:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
Yeah it's pretty much a circlejerk of for-profit companies trying to soak as much money as possible out of the system.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:54 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 7:54 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I recently had an illuminating experience.
In the process of opening a small cafe, I had to get all my licenses and tax forms and inspections squared away. Most of this involved dealing with the city, state, and county governments. Alabama is hardly renowned for efficient government, but for the most part the process was straightforward, the people helpful, and the costs modest.
But I made a mistake. Restaurants in Alabama require a local license from the county health department and a state license from the Department of Agriculrure and Industry. I mailed the form to the state office, but I failed to enclose the check for the $50 license fee. A few days later, I got a call at work from that office. A nice young woman named Latasha said they'd received my application, but no check. Could I get that out to them this week? No problem, I apologized for my error, and asked what I needed to do to make sure the check got paired up with the application. Another form? A cover letter explaining the error? Resubmit the whole application? Latasha laughed and said, "Just put 'Attention: Latasha' on the envelope, I'll take care of it." So I did. And she did. It was No Big Deal. Problem solved promptly and efficiently.
Meanwhile, I had a question about a charge I received from my health insurer. I've made eight phone calls, written two emails, gotten six different answers, and been hung up on twice.
Tell me again how BIG GOVERNMENT is the problem, GOP. I fucking dare you.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 7:56 AM on March 14, 2017 [216 favorites]
In the process of opening a small cafe, I had to get all my licenses and tax forms and inspections squared away. Most of this involved dealing with the city, state, and county governments. Alabama is hardly renowned for efficient government, but for the most part the process was straightforward, the people helpful, and the costs modest.
But I made a mistake. Restaurants in Alabama require a local license from the county health department and a state license from the Department of Agriculrure and Industry. I mailed the form to the state office, but I failed to enclose the check for the $50 license fee. A few days later, I got a call at work from that office. A nice young woman named Latasha said they'd received my application, but no check. Could I get that out to them this week? No problem, I apologized for my error, and asked what I needed to do to make sure the check got paired up with the application. Another form? A cover letter explaining the error? Resubmit the whole application? Latasha laughed and said, "Just put 'Attention: Latasha' on the envelope, I'll take care of it." So I did. And she did. It was No Big Deal. Problem solved promptly and efficiently.
Meanwhile, I had a question about a charge I received from my health insurer. I've made eight phone calls, written two emails, gotten six different answers, and been hung up on twice.
Tell me again how BIG GOVERNMENT is the problem, GOP. I fucking dare you.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 7:56 AM on March 14, 2017 [216 favorites]
That's also partially because some percentage of people without insurance will go bankrupt after getting care (esp. for emergent care). As it is, the cost of their health care is priced into the cost of everyone else's. (Via premiums, or higher list prices, and so on). If 100% of people had coverage, this wouldn't be needed.
posted by nat at 7:57 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by nat at 7:57 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's a crying shame that part of the reason for the incredibly screwed-up cost structure of modern health care is that prices are set artificially high so they can be negotiated down with various insurance companies, and of course because so much of modern health care is run by for-profit companies. I daresay that no one knows want an MRI really costs, though one could probably collect a dozen wildly disparate billing examples.
Hahaha, let's talk about the time I tried to call up a couple of hospitals' billing departments and comparison shop for a pretty standard procedure.
Spoiler: I didn't get anywhere.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:57 AM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
Hahaha, let's talk about the time I tried to call up a couple of hospitals' billing departments and comparison shop for a pretty standard procedure.
Spoiler: I didn't get anywhere.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:57 AM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
ha, fleebnork. I am not laughing at your wife's pain but at my own, as five years after my lumbar disc explosion I am pretty sure I have something up with a cervical or thoracic disc now, for variety. before I get to find out how much an MRI costs when beautiful, wonderful Compensation isn't paying for it, I got to go to a billion pain doctor appointments and convince them I actually do want some kind of imaging and maybe even treatment besides pain pills. not that I will say no to the pain pills. because, like, you got to prove you are serious about wanting an expensive scan by first paying for a bunch of expensive specialist co-pays. so I am on a voyage of discovery right alongside you.
p.s. fuck HMOs. I suppose this is a "derail" so I will complain no more about my private woes. but they are pretty woeful
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:58 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
p.s. fuck HMOs. I suppose this is a "derail" so I will complain no more about my private woes. but they are pretty woeful
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:58 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
There are places (e.g., Thailand) with medical tourism, and you can compare costs that way. Last time I checked they seemed to charge about a third of US prices, and they seem to be doing very well. I've used one for outpatient treatment a couple of times; they were way nicer than any hospital I've seen in the USA.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:59 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:59 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'll be able to tell you that real soon, because my wife fell in the shower last week and injured her neck. She ended up with a couple of bulging discs in her neck, for which all she can do is rest and not do anything strenuous. The ER copay was $300, but we have not yet received the itemized stuff like X-Ray, MRI, CAT scan, the meds they gave her while she was in the ER, and so on.
I'm here from a single-payer system to say that you would literally see none of those bills if this happened here.
That's not to say a single-payer system like ours is some magical unicorn-infested landscape in which nobody ever endures bureaucratic snafus or has to wait for care they really need. All that stuff can and does happen.
But the thing that literally does not happen ever - EVER - is people wondering "Can I afford a trip to the ER right now?"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:00 AM on March 14, 2017 [80 favorites]
I'm here from a single-payer system to say that you would literally see none of those bills if this happened here.
That's not to say a single-payer system like ours is some magical unicorn-infested landscape in which nobody ever endures bureaucratic snafus or has to wait for care they really need. All that stuff can and does happen.
But the thing that literally does not happen ever - EVER - is people wondering "Can I afford a trip to the ER right now?"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:00 AM on March 14, 2017 [80 favorites]
Oh, I didn't get any imaging or pain pills for my back explosion! And I have really good insurance. But not so good that my PCP didn't know from go that they would not cover imaging unless I literally came into the office dragging myself by my fingernails due to disability.
They did pay for PT, but you get X number of sessions per calendar year and if you aren't cured by then, welp.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:01 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
They did pay for PT, but you get X number of sessions per calendar year and if you aren't cured by then, welp.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:01 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
s_l -- things have changed a LOT since I last conducted a sleazy bursting-into-tears in exchange for percocet transaction. time was, all I had to do was say my left leg didn't work so well because of all the electric shocks and falling down and they would pretend some sympathy but now they are not really into that anymore. not sure if this is a consequence of "opiate epidemic" crackdown regulation tightening or if I appeal less to doctorly sympathies now that I am five years more haggard and cranky. or if it is deeply implausible to them that a person can have two unrelated agonizing back issues in the same lifetime and the same spine. perhaps all three.
but yeah the limited PT sessions allowed by every insurance plan I ever had is the thing that most makes me want to break all the insurance company executives' backs personally.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:08 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
but yeah the limited PT sessions allowed by every insurance plan I ever had is the thing that most makes me want to break all the insurance company executives' backs personally.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:08 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Kaiser Permanente. I know some people have had negative experiences, but swear to Maude, I have been a member since the day I was born, I have had extensive illnesses and a few surgeries and I am still a huge fan. Husband was reluctant to go on Kaiser since he had only been on PPO, but the minute he started, he's been a fan. He has HIV and he sees an excellent infectious disease specialist. It's not for profit and I have only been turned down for one procedure I thought I should get in the entire 47 years I've been a member (they called it elective, I beg to differ). It's not-for-profit, the doctors, nurses and other staff are, for the most part, happy to be there and the medical care is excellent.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:10 AM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 8:10 AM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
What a whiny manbaby. After all, if the shoe fits...
More like if the hood fits...
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:11 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
More like if the hood fits...
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:11 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
The fact is that many people don't want and don't insurance, especially not the kind mandated by ObamaCare. The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
This is a mental model of insurance that seems to assume that everybody's health status will remain static — that healthy people will never get unpredictably sick or injured. But the entire point of insurance is pooling together individual risks that are individually unpredictable into a group that is much more predictable. It protects the insured from catastrophic loss.
The alternative right now to having insurance is to drop in on an emergency room when your health is too poor to ignore any longer, go bankrupt from expenses, and force the hospital to eat the losses that they can't recover from your bankrupt ass, i.e., pass off the expenses to everyone else anyway. So the costs are going to be spread amongst us all one way or another (except the bankruptcy route costs everybody a whole lot more); can you really tell me with a straight face that you would prefer the latter when the inevitable happens to you?
posted by indubitable at 8:11 AM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
This is a mental model of insurance that seems to assume that everybody's health status will remain static — that healthy people will never get unpredictably sick or injured. But the entire point of insurance is pooling together individual risks that are individually unpredictable into a group that is much more predictable. It protects the insured from catastrophic loss.
The alternative right now to having insurance is to drop in on an emergency room when your health is too poor to ignore any longer, go bankrupt from expenses, and force the hospital to eat the losses that they can't recover from your bankrupt ass, i.e., pass off the expenses to everyone else anyway. So the costs are going to be spread amongst us all one way or another (except the bankruptcy route costs everybody a whole lot more); can you really tell me with a straight face that you would prefer the latter when the inevitable happens to you?
posted by indubitable at 8:11 AM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
The alternative right now to having insurance
addendum: another alternative is nationalizing the health insurance function and paying your premium through a progressive income tax, which collects money according to a person's ability to pay, but few people seem to want to discuss that option.
posted by indubitable at 8:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
addendum: another alternative is nationalizing the health insurance function and paying your premium through a progressive income tax, which collects money according to a person's ability to pay, but few people seem to want to discuss that option.
posted by indubitable at 8:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
No, they just keep describing their wish for a system that worked exactly like that, and then throwing up their hands like TOO BAD THERE IS A PHYSICAL LAW OF NATURE PREVENTING SUCH A THING FROM EXISTING.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:18 AM on March 14, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:18 AM on March 14, 2017 [56 favorites]
Which is why at my job if you pass on the sponsored health insurance, you have to show proof that you are somehow getting covered some other way.
I'm pretty sure that's an ACA requirement. Employers have to prove they offered you a policy and you turned it down.
The employer-provided coverage part of the ACA is a real mess, though. I discovered this year that an employer can offer all manner of non-compliant, shit policies as long as they provide at least one ACA-compliant policy to its employees. My son's employer did just that. The high-deductible, compliant policy was priced so stratospherically, that it would have eaten well over half of his monthly take-home pay. The "affordable", non-compliant policies were such shit. No catastrophic coverage. No copays. Everything out-of-pocket until you hit the high deductible. Thing is, if he elected to not take any of them, he wouldn't be eligible for assistance on the Marketplace. He ended up having to roll the dice and take the plan with no catastrophic coverage because that was the best option he could afford.
Fuck America and it's "healthcare" system.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that's an ACA requirement. Employers have to prove they offered you a policy and you turned it down.
The employer-provided coverage part of the ACA is a real mess, though. I discovered this year that an employer can offer all manner of non-compliant, shit policies as long as they provide at least one ACA-compliant policy to its employees. My son's employer did just that. The high-deductible, compliant policy was priced so stratospherically, that it would have eaten well over half of his monthly take-home pay. The "affordable", non-compliant policies were such shit. No catastrophic coverage. No copays. Everything out-of-pocket until you hit the high deductible. Thing is, if he elected to not take any of them, he wouldn't be eligible for assistance on the Marketplace. He ended up having to roll the dice and take the plan with no catastrophic coverage because that was the best option he could afford.
Fuck America and it's "healthcare" system.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
many people don't want and don't insurance
Yeah, too bad. Many people want and [think] they don't need auto insurance, either, and of course they do. They need health insurance, too. THey need it to protect the rest of us in epidemic situations. They need it to prevent higher-cost and higher-intensivity care later that drives up pricing and consumes resources out of all reasonable proportion to need, further limiting resources to the rest of us. They need it because no one can predict which ones among us are going to develop a serious condition, be impacted by a natural or political disaster, or have a serious accident. They need it so they can get guidance on the long-term lifestyle-related health issues that aren't bothering them now, but are likely to in the future, and make plans accordingly. Everyone needs to be able to receive regular health care and to face the myriad health unknowns of life without financial anxieties.
posted by Miko at 8:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [63 favorites]
Yeah, too bad. Many people want and [think] they don't need auto insurance, either, and of course they do. They need health insurance, too. THey need it to protect the rest of us in epidemic situations. They need it to prevent higher-cost and higher-intensivity care later that drives up pricing and consumes resources out of all reasonable proportion to need, further limiting resources to the rest of us. They need it because no one can predict which ones among us are going to develop a serious condition, be impacted by a natural or political disaster, or have a serious accident. They need it so they can get guidance on the long-term lifestyle-related health issues that aren't bothering them now, but are likely to in the future, and make plans accordingly. Everyone needs to be able to receive regular health care and to face the myriad health unknowns of life without financial anxieties.
posted by Miko at 8:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [63 favorites]
EVERYONE FUCKING NEEDS HEALTH INSURANCE. Health care is a public good. It is good for me when people who need care get it, and even better if they get preventive care.
Even if I could afford to pay my healthcare expenses out of pocket, my life is immeasurably better when others are getting the care they need.
Or what Miko said.
posted by allthinky at 8:24 AM on March 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
Even if I could afford to pay my healthcare expenses out of pocket, my life is immeasurably better when others are getting the care they need.
Or what Miko said.
posted by allthinky at 8:24 AM on March 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
Last I looked, people who don't want and don't feel they need a military aren't able to send in their tax returns with their share of the military budget deducted from their tax liability. A mandate to buy something from private sector insurance companies is not the way I would have chosen to get people to all pay their fair share of the costs of living in a functioning society, but it was the only way to achieve that goal at the time the ACA was passed, so I see very little separating it from compulsory taxation.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
I feel like we understood at the beginning of the last century that not having large populations rife with disease/untreated injuries/high maternal and infant mortality was desirable for the larger public health. Also clean water and working sewer systems.
I don't know why we are stupider now.
posted by emjaybee at 8:29 AM on March 14, 2017 [46 favorites]
I don't know why we are stupider now.
posted by emjaybee at 8:29 AM on March 14, 2017 [46 favorites]
especially not the kind mandated by ObamaCare
Are you arguing in good faith here? Your original point about media presentation seemed valid on a meta-level.
But I think it's pretty clear to most serious journalists and most people who've been paying attention to the US healthcare debacle over the years that the important part is not the resentment of a bunch of short-sighted little libertarian shits who are either:
A. Too greedy and selfish to care about the well-being of others
B. Too wet-behind-the-ears to have discovered their own mortality
C. Too goddamn uninformed to understand the basics of insurance and risk
D. All of those
The important part is that people are going to lose care and die.
The people who get all het up about the individual mandate are the same jerks who get mad about paying taxes for things they aren't using right this second. The ACA--the Republican-conceived plan--was specifically designed to keep what many countries approach as a government-held risk pool largely-privatized.
[On preview others have covered most of this and the car insurance analogy has already happened so I'll skip it. Y'all are smart.]
posted by aspersioncast at 8:30 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
Are you arguing in good faith here? Your original point about media presentation seemed valid on a meta-level.
But I think it's pretty clear to most serious journalists and most people who've been paying attention to the US healthcare debacle over the years that the important part is not the resentment of a bunch of short-sighted little libertarian shits who are either:
A. Too greedy and selfish to care about the well-being of others
B. Too wet-behind-the-ears to have discovered their own mortality
C. Too goddamn uninformed to understand the basics of insurance and risk
D. All of those
The important part is that people are going to lose care and die.
The people who get all het up about the individual mandate are the same jerks who get mad about paying taxes for things they aren't using right this second. The ACA--the Republican-conceived plan--was specifically designed to keep what many countries approach as a government-held risk pool largely-privatized.
[On preview others have covered most of this and the car insurance analogy has already happened so I'll skip it. Y'all are smart.]
posted by aspersioncast at 8:30 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
It SHOULD be built into taxes, wherein people are taxed on their income, like every other developed nation does. This whole insurance company bullshit boggles. The whole model is fucked. Tear it down.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:31 AM on March 14, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:31 AM on March 14, 2017 [36 favorites]
I don't know why we are stupider now.
Because most people alive today have never seen influenza, polio, mumps, or even advanced HIV infection hit a community and decimate it. We learn by experiencing, not, unfortunately, by reading history books.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [55 favorites]
Because most people alive today have never seen influenza, polio, mumps, or even advanced HIV infection hit a community and decimate it. We learn by experiencing, not, unfortunately, by reading history books.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [55 favorites]
Yeah, I mean, this is true...
The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
And this is also true...
Many people want and [think] they don't need auto insurance, either, and of course they do. They need health insurance, too. THey need it to protect the rest of us in epidemic situations. They need it to prevent higher-cost and higher-intensivity care later that drives up pricing and consumes resources out of all reasonable proportion to need, further limiting resources to the rest of us.
But this is the MOST true...
Also, you know what? I'm not even old, and yet here I am paying taxes that support all these programs for old people. Why do I have to do that? I guess I could start paying when I'm actually old myself, maybe that would be fair.
It's not even like you "might" need healthcare, and that's why you should buy insurance. You will 100% definitely need healthcare. Because every frickin' one of us dies eventually of something, and typically we are in the hospital for at least a little while before we do it (or need to be!), and in many cases for a long while.
Not only that, every frickin' one of us HAS already needed healthcare, because we were fetuses and then babies once, and we got born (which involves a lot of blood and a lot of risk no matter what you do), and then we got sick a lot until our immune systems developed.
I really like the framing that some advocates for the disabled use when they refer to the rest of us as "temporarily able-bodied." Those young healthy people who don't need insurance should remember that they are at best TEMPORARILY young, healthy, and able-bodied.
WHEN, not if, they are old and/or sick and/or injured themselves, they will be unable to work and pay for their own care. So they better pay into the system now, while they still can, and hope others will do the same when their time comes.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:34 AM on March 14, 2017 [34 favorites]
The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
And this is also true...
Many people want and [think] they don't need auto insurance, either, and of course they do. They need health insurance, too. THey need it to protect the rest of us in epidemic situations. They need it to prevent higher-cost and higher-intensivity care later that drives up pricing and consumes resources out of all reasonable proportion to need, further limiting resources to the rest of us.
But this is the MOST true...
Also, you know what? I'm not even old, and yet here I am paying taxes that support all these programs for old people. Why do I have to do that? I guess I could start paying when I'm actually old myself, maybe that would be fair.
It's not even like you "might" need healthcare, and that's why you should buy insurance. You will 100% definitely need healthcare. Because every frickin' one of us dies eventually of something, and typically we are in the hospital for at least a little while before we do it (or need to be!), and in many cases for a long while.
Not only that, every frickin' one of us HAS already needed healthcare, because we were fetuses and then babies once, and we got born (which involves a lot of blood and a lot of risk no matter what you do), and then we got sick a lot until our immune systems developed.
I really like the framing that some advocates for the disabled use when they refer to the rest of us as "temporarily able-bodied." Those young healthy people who don't need insurance should remember that they are at best TEMPORARILY young, healthy, and able-bodied.
WHEN, not if, they are old and/or sick and/or injured themselves, they will be unable to work and pay for their own care. So they better pay into the system now, while they still can, and hope others will do the same when their time comes.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:34 AM on March 14, 2017 [34 favorites]
19 months ago, people would have said Mr. Machine was the kind of guy who should be able to elect not to have health insurance. Male, early 30's, healthy, no longer overweight, no chronic or health conditions after a mystery and never-repeated asthma attack as a two year old, no surgery since his wisdom teeth came out. Lingering flu-like cold, but who doesn't catch one of those every once in a while? No biggie, and no need to see the doctor. We had gone hiking in Yosemite just months before.
18 months ago, Mr. Machine went to the emergency room for pains in his chest. Pretty quickly, they figured out he wasn't having a heart attack, but out of an abundance of caution, they did some x-rays, and turned up a weird shape. At 6 AM or so, they decided to admit him until they could get a specialist in to look at the weirdness. Around noon, they discharged him.
Enter, several weeks later: a bill for $25,000+ for six hours in the emergency room and six hours of being an admitted patient because the fancy fucking insurance company had denied coverage. Since he wasn't having a heart attack, they argued, he should have just been sent home.
Twist ending: WASN'T A HEART ATTACK
IT WAS A CANCER
THE WEIRD SHAPE WAS A FOUR INCH AGGRESSIVE LYMPHOMA BETWEEN HIS HEART AND LUNGS. THE WEIGHT HE HAD BEEN LOSING EARLIER IN THE SUMMER? CANCER. THE FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS? ALSO CANCER.
Further twist ending, available only on the DVD for the US: despite the fact that my fucking job involves bending complicated technical/bureaucratic regimes to the will of my clients, multiple rounds with the insurance company and hospital availed nothing, and we were going to be on the hook for the $25K in cold hard fucking cash.
Further, further twist ending, available only on the DVD for the US after inputting numbers from your tax return that place you firmly in the upper middle class or above: I went to my HR department, which negotiates our health insurance, and broke down in tears, crying about how my husband had aggressive cancer, and I was pregnant, and I didn't know what to do, because I didn't know how we could afford this and all the other expenses that would come from treating the big C.
So they made some calls, and without me having to lift another finger, we not only got a revised bill a couple weeks later for a quarter of the original amount, and also, ps, the biopsy and CAT scans and PET scans that confirmed the cancer diagnosis plus the four months of chemotherapy that followed, plus the $1,000+ a pop immune system boosting shots that came with it were free basically free due to the fact that we'd hit our deductible for the year.
Welcome to our completely fucked up health care system that we only survived because of privilege. Paul Ryan only wants to make things worse for people who don't have that.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [238 favorites]
18 months ago, Mr. Machine went to the emergency room for pains in his chest. Pretty quickly, they figured out he wasn't having a heart attack, but out of an abundance of caution, they did some x-rays, and turned up a weird shape. At 6 AM or so, they decided to admit him until they could get a specialist in to look at the weirdness. Around noon, they discharged him.
Enter, several weeks later: a bill for $25,000+ for six hours in the emergency room and six hours of being an admitted patient because the fancy fucking insurance company had denied coverage. Since he wasn't having a heart attack, they argued, he should have just been sent home.
Twist ending: WASN'T A HEART ATTACK
IT WAS A CANCER
THE WEIRD SHAPE WAS A FOUR INCH AGGRESSIVE LYMPHOMA BETWEEN HIS HEART AND LUNGS. THE WEIGHT HE HAD BEEN LOSING EARLIER IN THE SUMMER? CANCER. THE FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS? ALSO CANCER.
Further twist ending, available only on the DVD for the US: despite the fact that my fucking job involves bending complicated technical/bureaucratic regimes to the will of my clients, multiple rounds with the insurance company and hospital availed nothing, and we were going to be on the hook for the $25K in cold hard fucking cash.
Further, further twist ending, available only on the DVD for the US after inputting numbers from your tax return that place you firmly in the upper middle class or above: I went to my HR department, which negotiates our health insurance, and broke down in tears, crying about how my husband had aggressive cancer, and I was pregnant, and I didn't know what to do, because I didn't know how we could afford this and all the other expenses that would come from treating the big C.
So they made some calls, and without me having to lift another finger, we not only got a revised bill a couple weeks later for a quarter of the original amount, and also, ps, the biopsy and CAT scans and PET scans that confirmed the cancer diagnosis plus the four months of chemotherapy that followed, plus the $1,000+ a pop immune system boosting shots that came with it were free basically free due to the fact that we'd hit our deductible for the year.
Welcome to our completely fucked up health care system that we only survived because of privilege. Paul Ryan only wants to make things worse for people who don't have that.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [238 favorites]
I don't know why we are stupider now.
We learn by experiencing, not, unfortunately, by reading history books.
Exactly. It's the same reason the USA hasn't given up its bloodthirsty guns-and-death-penalty mentality like Europe (and even Russia!) has: it hasn't known war of the your-city-burned-down-twice-and-your-family-is-dead variety since the Civil War, whereas much of the rest of the world has known that violence repeatedly in the 20th century alone. Societies only learn through experience and ours has forgotten a lot over our long and now ending era of peace and prosperity.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:37 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
We learn by experiencing, not, unfortunately, by reading history books.
Exactly. It's the same reason the USA hasn't given up its bloodthirsty guns-and-death-penalty mentality like Europe (and even Russia!) has: it hasn't known war of the your-city-burned-down-twice-and-your-family-is-dead variety since the Civil War, whereas much of the rest of the world has known that violence repeatedly in the 20th century alone. Societies only learn through experience and ours has forgotten a lot over our long and now ending era of peace and prosperity.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:37 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Enter, several weeks later: a bill for $25,000+ for six hours in the emergency room and six hours of being an admitted patient because the fancy fucking insurance company had denied coverage.
My cousin purchased his first health insurance when he aged off his father's plan. Same thing, healthy kid, no reason to think he was going to be sick. Literally three weeks later, he drove off a bridge, and spent the next eight weeks in a hospital, several of those weeks in a coma. The bill to the insurance company, which had just started covering him, was in the very high six digits.
Everyone needs health insurance.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:38 AM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
My cousin purchased his first health insurance when he aged off his father's plan. Same thing, healthy kid, no reason to think he was going to be sick. Literally three weeks later, he drove off a bridge, and spent the next eight weeks in a hospital, several of those weeks in a coma. The bill to the insurance company, which had just started covering him, was in the very high six digits.
Everyone needs health insurance.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:38 AM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
They don't mention that millions of Americans who don't want insurance, who don't need insurance won't have to buy it so that others can pay less.
Many years ago I met a man on the city bus. He was extremely upset about laws mandating car insurance for motorists. "I tell you," he said, "a lot of stuff these days, it's what caused the founding fathers to declare independence."
"Car insurance?" I asked.
"I mean, not car insurance, but stuff like it. What you have to understand is that the founders were anarchists."
"Why would anarchists form a government?" I asked.
He thought a moment before replying. "They were anarchists of the mind."
The proposed Republican healthcare law represents a return to the founding principles of our nation as espoused by bus rando: Anarchy of the mind.
posted by compartment at 8:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [96 favorites]
Many years ago I met a man on the city bus. He was extremely upset about laws mandating car insurance for motorists. "I tell you," he said, "a lot of stuff these days, it's what caused the founding fathers to declare independence."
"Car insurance?" I asked.
"I mean, not car insurance, but stuff like it. What you have to understand is that the founders were anarchists."
"Why would anarchists form a government?" I asked.
He thought a moment before replying. "They were anarchists of the mind."
The proposed Republican healthcare law represents a return to the founding principles of our nation as espoused by bus rando: Anarchy of the mind.
posted by compartment at 8:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [96 favorites]
When I was young, and could not afford the (shitty) health insurance my company offered due to the fact that I was making 6.50 an hour, I went without. But because I was not stupid, and had seen several relatives die by then, I was always aware that I was taking a gamble. As soon as I could get healthcare, I did.
And also, let's talk about one type of healthcare most young people do need: birth control. So there's at least one thing you should have coverage for.
And everyone should get their teeth cleaned. That's not age-dependent.
And get a flu shot every year.
Oh and then there are young people who need care for transitioning.
And of course young people born with a disability or chronic illness who will always need care.
Youth, besides being temporary, is a terrible reason not to have healthcare.
posted by emjaybee at 8:45 AM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
And also, let's talk about one type of healthcare most young people do need: birth control. So there's at least one thing you should have coverage for.
And everyone should get their teeth cleaned. That's not age-dependent.
And get a flu shot every year.
Oh and then there are young people who need care for transitioning.
And of course young people born with a disability or chronic illness who will always need care.
Youth, besides being temporary, is a terrible reason not to have healthcare.
posted by emjaybee at 8:45 AM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
They don't mention that millions of Americans who don't want insurance, who don't need insurance won't have to buy it so that others can pay less.
Car insurance is the rebuttal to your astroturf talking point.
posted by winna at 8:57 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Car insurance is the rebuttal to your astroturf talking point.
posted by winna at 8:57 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
"The headline that millions are picking up from their driveways this morning, across red states, blue states & swing states:"
1 2 3 4 5 6
Each tweet link has 4 front pages from newspapers that have headlines saying 24 million will lose coverage. On a purely local level, Rs are losing the messaging battle bigly.
posted by chris24 at 8:59 AM on March 14, 2017 [43 favorites]
1 2 3 4 5 6
Each tweet link has 4 front pages from newspapers that have headlines saying 24 million will lose coverage. On a purely local level, Rs are losing the messaging battle bigly.
posted by chris24 at 8:59 AM on March 14, 2017 [43 favorites]
1. Let Ryan roll out a healthcare bill that everybody hates.
2. Watch the bill fail.
3. Destroy Ryan.
4. ?
What the hell is step 4?
Step 4.
We're not really friends anymore, but she went to work for a Republican Congressperson shortly after college. I like to imagine her, wherever she is, walking through offices, driving down the street, visiting the hospital, armed with an endless supply of Post-Its
One of my college RAs, who was forbidden to walk at his graduation over allegations that he'd spent a semester plundering the dorms under his supervision, went on to a quite lucrative career as a Chief of Staff to a Republican Representative. I've always imagined that his early experience with larceny must've looked good on his CV.
In other news, Wikileaks is throwing it's support to Wilders in the Dutch election.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:00 AM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
2. Watch the bill fail.
3. Destroy Ryan.
4. ?
What the hell is step 4?
Step 4.
We're not really friends anymore, but she went to work for a Republican Congressperson shortly after college. I like to imagine her, wherever she is, walking through offices, driving down the street, visiting the hospital, armed with an endless supply of Post-Its
One of my college RAs, who was forbidden to walk at his graduation over allegations that he'd spent a semester plundering the dorms under his supervision, went on to a quite lucrative career as a Chief of Staff to a Republican Representative. I've always imagined that his early experience with larceny must've looked good on his CV.
In other news, Wikileaks is throwing it's support to Wilders in the Dutch election.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:00 AM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
In other news, Wikileaks is throwing it's support to Wilders in the Dutch election.
Did you mean, "Russian intelligence front group Wikileaks"?
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:02 AM on March 14, 2017 [32 favorites]
Did you mean, "Russian intelligence front group Wikileaks"?
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:02 AM on March 14, 2017 [32 favorites]
They don't mention that millions of Americans who don't want insurance, who don't need insurance won't have to buy it so that others can pay less.'
This just makes me so sad, the belief that people can't possibly want to help others and shouldn't have to*. I've been going to a lot of protests recently (I live in DC so I have proximity instead of representation which is a shitty trade-off) and, I think largely because I usually have a baby with me, I've been interviewed a fair number of times by various news outlets. One thing that comes up with some frequency is a question along the lines of "Do you have friends or family affected by the Muslim ban/increased ICE enforcement/ACA repeal?" and it makes me nuts that the implicit assumption is that I must have some personal connection to want to protest these horrific policies instead of believing it's the right thing to do. Is that really what most people assume, that no one actually cares about people they don't know, they only care about things that affect them in some way? It's awful but it also just makes me sad.
*I do understand that some people have to make terrible choices between say, insurance and paying rent, and I think we should help them too e.g. with single payer.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [48 favorites]
This just makes me so sad, the belief that people can't possibly want to help others and shouldn't have to*. I've been going to a lot of protests recently (I live in DC so I have proximity instead of representation which is a shitty trade-off) and, I think largely because I usually have a baby with me, I've been interviewed a fair number of times by various news outlets. One thing that comes up with some frequency is a question along the lines of "Do you have friends or family affected by the Muslim ban/increased ICE enforcement/ACA repeal?" and it makes me nuts that the implicit assumption is that I must have some personal connection to want to protest these horrific policies instead of believing it's the right thing to do. Is that really what most people assume, that no one actually cares about people they don't know, they only care about things that affect them in some way? It's awful but it also just makes me sad.
*I do understand that some people have to make terrible choices between say, insurance and paying rent, and I think we should help them too e.g. with single payer.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [48 favorites]
Can't wait for the one stein-voting bernie-or-buster in my FB feed to start heartily supporting Geert fucking Wilders. Of all things the last couple years have taught me, Horseshoe Theory having some merit is maybe the craziest.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments deleted; the heat is understandable, but all-caps yelling at people here, as if they aren't already angry/resisting/etc, leads nowhere useful.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:10 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:10 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Further twist ending, available only on the DVD for the US: despite the fact that my fucking job involves bending complicated technical/bureaucratic regimes to the will of my clients, multiple rounds with the insurance company and hospital availed nothing, and we were going to be on the hook for the $25K in cold hard fucking cash.
There is a possible out for people in similar situations who don't have the benefit of an HR department willing to go to bat for them. What follows is my understanding of a couple laws and how they work together, not any kind of recommendation or advice.
Under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), collection agencies are required to validate your debt upon request with a line-item breakdown of individual fees. Under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), healthcare providers may not share this information without your consent.
This creates a catch-22 where medical debt (allegedly) cannot be collected without either the collector or healthcare provider violating one of the laws that governs their conduct. I believe the next step after this is letter writing to credit reporting agencies get the unvalidated debt expunged from your credit record.
Again, don't interpret this as an endorsement, recommendation, or advice. I assume this is easier to do if you have had the privilege of an education that gave you the skills to write a professional-looking, polite but firm letter asserting your rights. I also assume this all to be a massive headache and not an easy thing to do even if the law is on your side. And I wouldn't assume a favorable outcome to be a likely conclusion in any situation involving medical billing disputes.
More information can be found here.
posted by compartment at 9:12 AM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
There is a possible out for people in similar situations who don't have the benefit of an HR department willing to go to bat for them. What follows is my understanding of a couple laws and how they work together, not any kind of recommendation or advice.
Under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), collection agencies are required to validate your debt upon request with a line-item breakdown of individual fees. Under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), healthcare providers may not share this information without your consent.
This creates a catch-22 where medical debt (allegedly) cannot be collected without either the collector or healthcare provider violating one of the laws that governs their conduct. I believe the next step after this is letter writing to credit reporting agencies get the unvalidated debt expunged from your credit record.
Again, don't interpret this as an endorsement, recommendation, or advice. I assume this is easier to do if you have had the privilege of an education that gave you the skills to write a professional-looking, polite but firm letter asserting your rights. I also assume this all to be a massive headache and not an easy thing to do even if the law is on your side. And I wouldn't assume a favorable outcome to be a likely conclusion in any situation involving medical billing disputes.
More information can be found here.
posted by compartment at 9:12 AM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
Wikileaks is throwing it's support to Wilders in the Dutch election
For the record, that's what Faine Greenwood infers from the Wikileaks tweet about documents pertaining to Rutte, but Wikileaks did just leak a bunch of documents pertaining to Wilders himself like, yesterday.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:14 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
For the record, that's what Faine Greenwood infers from the Wikileaks tweet about documents pertaining to Rutte, but Wikileaks did just leak a bunch of documents pertaining to Wilders himself like, yesterday.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:14 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
The fact is that many people don't want and don't insurance, especially not the kind mandated by ObamaCare.
There are other dimensions to requiring health insurance for all that the debate often ignores. To those screaming about how denying people the choice to forego health insurance is unfair, we tend to explain how participation by the young and healthy are necessary to generate sufficient premiums to pay for the care required by the old and/or unlucky: the mandate rationale.
But that approach ignores that health insurance falls into a category of goods for which you pay over your entire life. However, unlike, say, the cost of educating one's children in public schools or social security--for which you also pay over a lifetime via taxes as do others who won't use the service because we've agreed (putting aside Betsy Devos and GOP notions about private investment accounts) that it's important to society--we haven't, until the ACA, made any attempt to require it. It's all entangled in having private sector providers, from physicians all the way through the system to the insurance companies; somehow that makes the mandate unacceptable unlike taxes to pay for schools or social security contributions.
If we had a single payer system, after an initial kerfuffle I think it would receded into the landscape of taxes that are just background noise, like how few people have any idea what FICA deductions from their paychecks are all about. The public's growing appreciation for the ACA is evidence. That said, fuck Joe Lieberman forever.
posted by carmicha at 9:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
There are other dimensions to requiring health insurance for all that the debate often ignores. To those screaming about how denying people the choice to forego health insurance is unfair, we tend to explain how participation by the young and healthy are necessary to generate sufficient premiums to pay for the care required by the old and/or unlucky: the mandate rationale.
But that approach ignores that health insurance falls into a category of goods for which you pay over your entire life. However, unlike, say, the cost of educating one's children in public schools or social security--for which you also pay over a lifetime via taxes as do others who won't use the service because we've agreed (putting aside Betsy Devos and GOP notions about private investment accounts) that it's important to society--we haven't, until the ACA, made any attempt to require it. It's all entangled in having private sector providers, from physicians all the way through the system to the insurance companies; somehow that makes the mandate unacceptable unlike taxes to pay for schools or social security contributions.
If we had a single payer system, after an initial kerfuffle I think it would receded into the landscape of taxes that are just background noise, like how few people have any idea what FICA deductions from their paychecks are all about. The public's growing appreciation for the ACA is evidence. That said, fuck Joe Lieberman forever.
posted by carmicha at 9:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
This just makes me so sad, the belief that people can't possibly want to help others and shouldn't have to.
It's why the right is obsessed with the made-up concept of "virtue signalling" - because clearly having virtues or caring about other human beings can never be true deeply held values, there must some personal enrichment goal otherwise why are you doing it? It is narcissistic sociopathy (also known as homo economicus) as a political philosophy. "We don't want to care because then we might feel bad and have to do something we don't feel like doing or deal with the mild discomfort of acknowledging our privilege, so therefore no one else must genuinely care (because caring = bad for you personally), meaning that everyone is faking that they care, and being a faker is the worst thing ever; all of you faking fakers are the worst meaning that we sociopaths are actually the most virtuous."
posted by melissasaurus at 9:18 AM on March 14, 2017 [48 favorites]
It's why the right is obsessed with the made-up concept of "virtue signalling" - because clearly having virtues or caring about other human beings can never be true deeply held values, there must some personal enrichment goal otherwise why are you doing it? It is narcissistic sociopathy (also known as homo economicus) as a political philosophy. "We don't want to care because then we might feel bad and have to do something we don't feel like doing or deal with the mild discomfort of acknowledging our privilege, so therefore no one else must genuinely care (because caring = bad for you personally), meaning that everyone is faking that they care, and being a faker is the worst thing ever; all of you faking fakers are the worst meaning that we sociopaths are actually the most virtuous."
posted by melissasaurus at 9:18 AM on March 14, 2017 [48 favorites]
In other news, Wikileaks is throwing its support to Wilders in the Dutch election
Of course they are. Wilders and Assange go to the same hairdresser.
posted by rocket88 at 9:19 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Of course they are. Wilders and Assange go to the same hairdresser.
posted by rocket88 at 9:19 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I liked Julian Assange so much more before he found that magic crown that turned him blue and gave him ice powers. I swear, before he started wearing that crown he was a decent guy.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
I meant to add that for things that are paid for over our entire lives through a required obligation, like public education taxes and mandated health insurance, it doesn't matter which if you move to another school district or switch insurance companies. It all evens out across the giant population (and, yes, using property taxes to pay for public education is terrible, insurance companies are more or less competitive, etc.) But still.
posted by carmicha at 9:22 AM on March 14, 2017
posted by carmicha at 9:22 AM on March 14, 2017
I feel compelled to share a pair of healthcare stories. One is mine, the other is not.
Ten years ago when I was twenty-six, my small intestine developed a fistula that burst forth out of my abdomen (thanks, Crohn's Disease!). I was hospitalized for thirteen days. When I was admitted, they checked my insurance information and told me I was covered. When I was discharged, they told me that "oh, by the way, our hospital and your insurance company failed to agree to a new contract while you were here, so you're actually not covered at all" and billed for me for over $400,000. The week after I was discharged, the hospital and the insurance company made a new deal. I was one of the unlucky people who dared to be deathly ill during the agreement lapse. Sucks to be me.
We eventually worked something out, but I lived with that open abdominal wound for three years after that. Long story. Lots more healthcare bills. Several more brushes with death. I've regenerated so much that I'm starting to think I'm a Time Lord. I have another story in which an x-ray technician calmly walked out of my testing room after assuring me nothing was wrong and then ran down the hall, comical loud footsteps of increasing speed ending with a door slam as he rushed to find doctors to see my test results immediately. Ask me about that one sometime.
Anyway, the other story happened to a former boss about seven years ago. He did not believe in doctors, medicine, or healthcare at all. One evening he was working on a little home remodeling project and accidentally dropped a concrete block with exposed rebar on his foot, punching a hole right through it. His solution was to run his bloody foot under the kitchen faucet for a while, put a sock on it, then go to bed. He limped around the office for three days with layers of bloody socks on his foot until we finally convinced him to go to the ER. The doctor told him that if he'd waited until the next morning to come in rather than that evening, they would've had to remove his gangrenous foot. They pumped him full of antibiotics and he later went on to become a marathon runner, so I guess his foot is fine now.
I don't know if I had a specific point in sharing these stories, but all of the discussion this morning inspired me to tell them. Everyone needs healthcare sooner or later. It just depends on when and why.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:22 AM on March 14, 2017 [32 favorites]
Ten years ago when I was twenty-six, my small intestine developed a fistula that burst forth out of my abdomen (thanks, Crohn's Disease!). I was hospitalized for thirteen days. When I was admitted, they checked my insurance information and told me I was covered. When I was discharged, they told me that "oh, by the way, our hospital and your insurance company failed to agree to a new contract while you were here, so you're actually not covered at all" and billed for me for over $400,000. The week after I was discharged, the hospital and the insurance company made a new deal. I was one of the unlucky people who dared to be deathly ill during the agreement lapse. Sucks to be me.
We eventually worked something out, but I lived with that open abdominal wound for three years after that. Long story. Lots more healthcare bills. Several more brushes with death. I've regenerated so much that I'm starting to think I'm a Time Lord. I have another story in which an x-ray technician calmly walked out of my testing room after assuring me nothing was wrong and then ran down the hall, comical loud footsteps of increasing speed ending with a door slam as he rushed to find doctors to see my test results immediately. Ask me about that one sometime.
Anyway, the other story happened to a former boss about seven years ago. He did not believe in doctors, medicine, or healthcare at all. One evening he was working on a little home remodeling project and accidentally dropped a concrete block with exposed rebar on his foot, punching a hole right through it. His solution was to run his bloody foot under the kitchen faucet for a while, put a sock on it, then go to bed. He limped around the office for three days with layers of bloody socks on his foot until we finally convinced him to go to the ER. The doctor told him that if he'd waited until the next morning to come in rather than that evening, they would've had to remove his gangrenous foot. They pumped him full of antibiotics and he later went on to become a marathon runner, so I guess his foot is fine now.
I don't know if I had a specific point in sharing these stories, but all of the discussion this morning inspired me to tell them. Everyone needs healthcare sooner or later. It just depends on when and why.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:22 AM on March 14, 2017 [32 favorites]
You know how many children I have? Zero children! You know how many cars I drive? Zero cars! For all of me, society could run with no schools and no streets, just bike paths and sidewalks. And yet here I am, paying into the system so that others can pay less for the roads and schools that they use and I do not. For that matter, at present I have zero disabilities that prevent me from working, and I can also afford all of my own food. And yet here I am, paying taxes that support disability and SNAP. Sucks to be me, right?
This isn't even a good line of altruism.
Without streets to get anywhere would involve trekking through the forest or scrub or grasslands no matter how you get there. For your groceries to get anywhere involves those streets. The computer you're typing on? It got to you somehow. You were, I assume, educated which was in a public school which you, personally, never paid for. Your company that you probably work for relies on public funded services and conveniences. They may even have low paid employees that depend on public services like SNAP which, if the company were mandated to pay instead, might come out of your pocket.
Nobody, nobody started life on their own. We all start our lives in debt to society and our lives are the means to pay it back by paying it forward. It sure as hell isn't an act of charity on anyone's part to contribute back to the civilization as a whole that gave them the life they now have. For anyone to pretend otherwise is delusional. People might ask when they have paid it back? The answer is that they can never pay it back because civilization gave them life itself.
posted by Talez at 9:25 AM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
This isn't even a good line of altruism.
Without streets to get anywhere would involve trekking through the forest or scrub or grasslands no matter how you get there. For your groceries to get anywhere involves those streets. The computer you're typing on? It got to you somehow. You were, I assume, educated which was in a public school which you, personally, never paid for. Your company that you probably work for relies on public funded services and conveniences. They may even have low paid employees that depend on public services like SNAP which, if the company were mandated to pay instead, might come out of your pocket.
Nobody, nobody started life on their own. We all start our lives in debt to society and our lives are the means to pay it back by paying it forward. It sure as hell isn't an act of charity on anyone's part to contribute back to the civilization as a whole that gave them the life they now have. For anyone to pretend otherwise is delusional. People might ask when they have paid it back? The answer is that they can never pay it back because civilization gave them life itself.
posted by Talez at 9:25 AM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
I am much more worried about them then that young guy who hates being told by his government that he has to buy insurance or otherwise pay a small penalty.
It's not just about that, though. It's that it's the first time in the history of America where you have to pay a tax just for being alive.
If you don't want to buy car insurance, no one is forcing you to buy a car. If you don't want to pay income tax, no one is forcing you to earn money. But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death. It is, frankly, a frightening precedent.
The issue of how insurance can work without young healthy people in the system is a different one from the issue of "should the government be allowed to force people to buy things to exist."
posted by corb at 9:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's not just about that, though. It's that it's the first time in the history of America where you have to pay a tax just for being alive.
If you don't want to buy car insurance, no one is forcing you to buy a car. If you don't want to pay income tax, no one is forcing you to earn money. But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death. It is, frankly, a frightening precedent.
The issue of how insurance can work without young healthy people in the system is a different one from the issue of "should the government be allowed to force people to buy things to exist."
posted by corb at 9:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
The issue of how insurance can work without young healthy people in the system is a different one from the issue of "should the government be allowed to force people to buy things to exist."
You don't have to buy it. You can pay the penalty which contributes to the working of the system. If you don't have the money it's given to you.
posted by Talez at 9:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
You don't have to buy it. You can pay the penalty which contributes to the working of the system. If you don't have the money it's given to you.
posted by Talez at 9:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
It is, frankly, a frightening precedent.
Why?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Why?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Death and taxes, man. What a choice.
posted by nickmark at 9:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by nickmark at 9:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's that it's the first time in the history of America where you have to pay a tax just for being alive.
Not true. "Selective Service".
posted by Slothrup at 9:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [38 favorites]
Not true. "Selective Service".
posted by Slothrup at 9:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [38 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Great optimism in America – and the results will be even better!
[links to bloomberg on optimism among US CEOs]
America = CEOs. Come on, dude.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Great optimism in America – and the results will be even better!
[links to bloomberg on optimism among US CEOs]
America = CEOs. Come on, dude.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:28 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
This isn't even a good line of altruism.
I thought that was pretty blatant sarcasm, no?
posted by aspersioncast at 9:29 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
I thought that was pretty blatant sarcasm, no?
posted by aspersioncast at 9:29 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you don't want to buy car insurance, no one is forcing you to buy a car. If you don't want to pay income tax, no one is forcing you to earn money. But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death. It is, frankly, a frightening precedent.
Not a great analogy. Everyone participates at some point in the healthcare system. And even if you don't participate all that much, that doesn't exempt you any more than you can be exempt from paying taxes on roads and schools. It's part of participating in society.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:29 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Not a great analogy. Everyone participates at some point in the healthcare system. And even if you don't participate all that much, that doesn't exempt you any more than you can be exempt from paying taxes on roads and schools. It's part of participating in society.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:29 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
With something like health care, where timing is everything, we don't need anything discouraging people from getting things checked out, even if it turns out to be a waste of time. The one time a doctor catches, say, a freak case of the bubonic plague early (not sure if that's a realistic example, but hopefully it gets the idea across), it could make the difference between an epidemic that costs everybody and no big deal. Health matters cross personal boundaries into the public interest. Too bad Republicans can't conceptualize collective responsibility anymore, or they'd get that.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:30 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 9:30 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
I think it's more the laws of physics that force us to need to have healthcare and food if we want to continue existing. The question is whether we pay those costs efficiently, as a group, or disparately, which works out better for a few of us and waaaay worse for the rest.
If one doesn't reject the entire concept of society, this is not a frightening prospect in the slightest.
posted by Scattercat at 9:30 AM on March 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
If one doesn't reject the entire concept of society, this is not a frightening prospect in the slightest.
posted by Scattercat at 9:30 AM on March 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
Under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), collection agencies are required to validate your debt upon request with a line-item breakdown of individual fees. Under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), healthcare providers may not share this information without your consent. This creates a catch-22 where medical debt (allegedly) cannot be collected without either the collector or healthcare provider violating one of the laws that governs their conduct. I believe the next step after this is letter writing to credit reporting agencies get the unvalidated debt expunged from your credit record.
As an aside, this is at best misleading. HHS specifically says: "The Privacy Rule permits covered entities to continue to use the services of debt collection agencies. ... The Department is not aware of any conflict between the Privacy Rule and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Where a use or disclosure of protected health information is necessary for the covered entity to fulfill a legal duty, the Privacy Rule would permit such use or disclosure as required by law."
Now, it's certainly possible for either the covered entity or the debt collection agency to fuck it up and fail to comply with the Privacy Rule, but there is nothing inherent in the law that makes it impossible for covered entities to use debt collectors. I would be very cautious about relying on any advice that suggests you can whipsaw a medical debt collector by request validation. In the worst case, you may implicitly be giving permission to the debt collector to receive more detailed medical information than it would normally get.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 9:31 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
As an aside, this is at best misleading. HHS specifically says: "The Privacy Rule permits covered entities to continue to use the services of debt collection agencies. ... The Department is not aware of any conflict between the Privacy Rule and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Where a use or disclosure of protected health information is necessary for the covered entity to fulfill a legal duty, the Privacy Rule would permit such use or disclosure as required by law."
Now, it's certainly possible for either the covered entity or the debt collection agency to fuck it up and fail to comply with the Privacy Rule, but there is nothing inherent in the law that makes it impossible for covered entities to use debt collectors. I would be very cautious about relying on any advice that suggests you can whipsaw a medical debt collector by request validation. In the worst case, you may implicitly be giving permission to the debt collector to receive more detailed medical information than it would normally get.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 9:31 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
The fact is that many people don't want and don't insurance, especially not the kind mandated by ObamaCare.
There's no need for me to join the pile-on here, but I think Josh Barro has a valid point that of all the elements of the ACA contraption, the mandate is hated, but the ACA -- and insurance in general -- relies on a mandate. People are inherently stupid about things, especially when time and orders of magnitude are involved. People like the idea of buying special snowflake insurance that just covers them because they're special snowflakes, even though the costs associated with special snowflake insurance are much much higher than being part of a big risk pool.
Simple enough solution, then: hide it. Take it out of taxes. Single-payer primary, let the private insurance market play in a little sandbox for secondary coverage. Job done.
As I've said here a couple of times, the only way this shit works is through continuity. The same entity has to be responsible for those early screenings and interventions as the one that would bear the cost of not screening or intervening early. If it isn't, then the entity dealing with the present will let whoever's bearing future costs deal with those costs whenever.
posted by holgate at 9:31 AM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
There's no need for me to join the pile-on here, but I think Josh Barro has a valid point that of all the elements of the ACA contraption, the mandate is hated, but the ACA -- and insurance in general -- relies on a mandate. People are inherently stupid about things, especially when time and orders of magnitude are involved. People like the idea of buying special snowflake insurance that just covers them because they're special snowflakes, even though the costs associated with special snowflake insurance are much much higher than being part of a big risk pool.
Simple enough solution, then: hide it. Take it out of taxes. Single-payer primary, let the private insurance market play in a little sandbox for secondary coverage. Job done.
As I've said here a couple of times, the only way this shit works is through continuity. The same entity has to be responsible for those early screenings and interventions as the one that would bear the cost of not screening or intervening early. If it isn't, then the entity dealing with the present will let whoever's bearing future costs deal with those costs whenever.
posted by holgate at 9:31 AM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
"We don't want to care because then we might feel bad and have to do something we don't feel like doing or deal with the mild discomfort of acknowledging our privilege, so therefore no one else must genuinely care (because caring = bad for you personally), meaning that everyone is faking that they care, and being a faker is the worst thing ever; all of you faking fakers are the worst meaning that we sociopaths are actually the most virtuous."
If anyone doubts the veracity of this, I have maaaaany stories of times I tried to Do Something Good In Public and these edgelords were first on the scene to tell me what a truly terrible, awful, lying faker poser person I am. (Being a practicing Buddhist also tends to bring this out in some people, for some reason.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:31 AM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
If anyone doubts the veracity of this, I have maaaaany stories of times I tried to Do Something Good In Public and these edgelords were first on the scene to tell me what a truly terrible, awful, lying faker poser person I am. (Being a practicing Buddhist also tends to bring this out in some people, for some reason.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:31 AM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
Without streets to get anywhere would involve trekking through the forest or scrub or grasslands no matter how you get there. For your groceries to get anywhere involves those streets. The computer you're typing on? It got to you somehow.
But you see, everything could be delivered by bike carts! And maybe trains! If it's not bike carts or trains, I think I should not have to pay. Also, what if I just don't want to have all those things unless they can be delivered by bike? Maybe I'd be happier without a computer! Just because I have one now doesn't mean I wouldn't get rid of it after the no-road-taxes-for-Frowner revolution.
Also, I don't care about other people's kids; I got my education paid for by a bunch of suckers, but since I don't have kids, I'm not going to be a sucker.
(This is not what I actually believe.)
posted by Frowner at 9:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
But you see, everything could be delivered by bike carts! And maybe trains! If it's not bike carts or trains, I think I should not have to pay. Also, what if I just don't want to have all those things unless they can be delivered by bike? Maybe I'd be happier without a computer! Just because I have one now doesn't mean I wouldn't get rid of it after the no-road-taxes-for-Frowner revolution.
Also, I don't care about other people's kids; I got my education paid for by a bunch of suckers, but since I don't have kids, I'm not going to be a sucker.
(This is not what I actually believe.)
posted by Frowner at 9:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's that it's the first time in the history of America where you have to pay a tax just for being alive.
If you don't want to buy car insurance, no one is forcing you to buy a car. If you don't want to pay income tax, no one is forcing you to earn money. But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death. It is, frankly, a frightening precedent.
This is just wrong. If you have no income, you pay no penalty for not having insurance. If you have no tax return filing obligation, you have no penalty. If your available coverage would cost more than 8% of your income, you don't owe a penalty. If you live in a state that didn't expand Medicaid, which would have covered you if they had, you don't owe a penalty.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [90 favorites]
If you don't want to buy car insurance, no one is forcing you to buy a car. If you don't want to pay income tax, no one is forcing you to earn money. But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death. It is, frankly, a frightening precedent.
This is just wrong. If you have no income, you pay no penalty for not having insurance. If you have no tax return filing obligation, you have no penalty. If your available coverage would cost more than 8% of your income, you don't owe a penalty. If you live in a state that didn't expand Medicaid, which would have covered you if they had, you don't owe a penalty.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [90 favorites]
If you don't want to buy car insurance, no one is forcing you to buy a car. If you don't want to pay income tax, no one is forcing you to earn money. But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death. It is, frankly, a frightening precedent.
Jules: Well, you know how society functions through public investment?
Vincent: I don't want to pay taxes.
Jules: Yeah, but, you are aware that there's an invention called society, and in this invention people live their lives, right?
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:34 AM on March 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
Jules: Well, you know how society functions through public investment?
Vincent: I don't want to pay taxes.
Jules: Yeah, but, you are aware that there's an invention called society, and in this invention people live their lives, right?
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:34 AM on March 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
Zooming back upthread to catch up after posting this comment, but I wanted to say that whoever said in the previous thread that this administration is a hostile takeover was spot on.
From now on, that's what I'm calling this regime: Hostile Takeover of the US Government. Because that's what it is.
posted by yoga at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
From now on, that's what I'm calling this regime: Hostile Takeover of the US Government. Because that's what it is.
posted by yoga at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's not just about that, though. It's that it's the first time in the history of America where you have to pay a tax just for being alive.
If you don't want to buy car insurance, no one is forcing you to buy a car. If you don't want to pay income tax, no one is forcing you to earn money. But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death. It is, frankly, a frightening precedent.
The issue of how insurance can work without young healthy people in the system is a different one from the issue of "should the government be allowed to force people to buy things to exist."
Corb: interestingly you are one jump away from the suggestion that it would be better funded from a small increase in normal income tax, and at that point single payer makes more sense, no?
posted by jaduncan at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2017 [31 favorites]
If you don't want to buy car insurance, no one is forcing you to buy a car. If you don't want to pay income tax, no one is forcing you to earn money. But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death. It is, frankly, a frightening precedent.
The issue of how insurance can work without young healthy people in the system is a different one from the issue of "should the government be allowed to force people to buy things to exist."
Corb: interestingly you are one jump away from the suggestion that it would be better funded from a small increase in normal income tax, and at that point single payer makes more sense, no?
posted by jaduncan at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2017 [31 favorites]
People who think they are never going to use the health care that insurance gets them access to are deluded and need to be saved from themselves.
Honestly I don't even put saving them from themselves at the top of the list of reasons why. Shaving some of the most unnecessary edges off things for folks who haven't figured out better is a worthy goal for society but we don't even have to get to that point before we see compelling reasons to have universal health care. The reality is that folks with no health insurance are expensive and risky for all the rest of us.
People who get sick for protracted periods cost the country tons of money in lost productivity and by spreading their ick around rather than getting preventative care and treatment. It's the same reason we should have some mandated sick time; you're not just making your own life harder when you drag your sorry flu-ridden ass into the office. You're further endangering "the herd" by exposing others, and our insistence on being this country of rugged individualists means the folks most likely to contact many people and be very effective Typhoid Marys are those in the service industry who are least likely to have the ability to take time off to get better.
This is "choice" like the choice to build homes that don't have decent fire resistance. It's okay, I'm always going to be careful and I don't like candles and it's my house anyway. Sure, till it's next to other people's houses and your stupid catches them on fire. Or maybe the forest, which now society will pay a few million bucks to put out because you didn't want to spend 5% more to use the correct drywall in that furnace room. "Choice" like unsafe vehicles, which don't just kill your stupid ass when you hit something but which kill families legally in the crosswalk when your uninspected and unmaintained brakes failed.
This idea that it's the first time you "had to pay a tax to be alive" is just comical. There has never been a time in the lives of anyone reading this where being in America didn't cost you money that went to your government. They might inefficiently gather it by tacking it onto the cost of gas or your chocolate bar or an amount based on the value of the property you resided on (which if you owned it you paid in property tax or if you rent you pay in increased rent to cover that property tax) or etc on and on forever. But you paid it.
The choice in America has always been that, to participate in society, you pay. You don't like it? You can overtly leave and go somewhere else (maybe Libertarian Paradise Somalia?) or you can wander off into whatever large chunk of forest you can find. Nobody's really gonna come track you down over your ACA payment if you're not participating in any of the rest of society and just eat acorns and lichen. But if you want to be in a society you pay some price for being in society. This idea that you can just opt out of something that is now 1/5th of our economy - even if you try to avoid paying a dollar in directly - is just stupid.
posted by phearlez at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
Honestly I don't even put saving them from themselves at the top of the list of reasons why. Shaving some of the most unnecessary edges off things for folks who haven't figured out better is a worthy goal for society but we don't even have to get to that point before we see compelling reasons to have universal health care. The reality is that folks with no health insurance are expensive and risky for all the rest of us.
People who get sick for protracted periods cost the country tons of money in lost productivity and by spreading their ick around rather than getting preventative care and treatment. It's the same reason we should have some mandated sick time; you're not just making your own life harder when you drag your sorry flu-ridden ass into the office. You're further endangering "the herd" by exposing others, and our insistence on being this country of rugged individualists means the folks most likely to contact many people and be very effective Typhoid Marys are those in the service industry who are least likely to have the ability to take time off to get better.
This is "choice" like the choice to build homes that don't have decent fire resistance. It's okay, I'm always going to be careful and I don't like candles and it's my house anyway. Sure, till it's next to other people's houses and your stupid catches them on fire. Or maybe the forest, which now society will pay a few million bucks to put out because you didn't want to spend 5% more to use the correct drywall in that furnace room. "Choice" like unsafe vehicles, which don't just kill your stupid ass when you hit something but which kill families legally in the crosswalk when your uninspected and unmaintained brakes failed.
This idea that it's the first time you "had to pay a tax to be alive" is just comical. There has never been a time in the lives of anyone reading this where being in America didn't cost you money that went to your government. They might inefficiently gather it by tacking it onto the cost of gas or your chocolate bar or an amount based on the value of the property you resided on (which if you owned it you paid in property tax or if you rent you pay in increased rent to cover that property tax) or etc on and on forever. But you paid it.
The choice in America has always been that, to participate in society, you pay. You don't like it? You can overtly leave and go somewhere else (maybe Libertarian Paradise Somalia?) or you can wander off into whatever large chunk of forest you can find. Nobody's really gonna come track you down over your ACA payment if you're not participating in any of the rest of society and just eat acorns and lichen. But if you want to be in a society you pay some price for being in society. This idea that you can just opt out of something that is now 1/5th of our economy - even if you try to avoid paying a dollar in directly - is just stupid.
posted by phearlez at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
corb - If you don't want to pay income tax, no one is forcing you to earn money.
That's right! No one forces me to earn money! When I get hungry, I just pop on down to the free food store unlike all you suckers who pay for food. When thunderstorms come, I just go in my free house that I got at the free house place. Don't even get me started at how empty the free clothes places is every time I go there! Why do people die from exposure every winter when they could just have free energy from the free energy fairy? All you people earning money are such suckers! No one's making you do that.
posted by Slothrop at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2017 [71 favorites]
That's right! No one forces me to earn money! When I get hungry, I just pop on down to the free food store unlike all you suckers who pay for food. When thunderstorms come, I just go in my free house that I got at the free house place. Don't even get me started at how empty the free clothes places is every time I go there! Why do people die from exposure every winter when they could just have free energy from the free energy fairy? All you people earning money are such suckers! No one's making you do that.
posted by Slothrop at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2017 [71 favorites]
It's that it's the first time in the history of America where you have to pay a tax just for being alive.
This is just Republican bullshit framing -- much like the "death tax."
You pay taxes for everything in your life. You pay taxes on your wages, you pay taxes on the food you eat, you pay taxes on property you own, you pay taxes on your gasoline, you pay taxes on your car, you pay taxes on your bank accounts. There is not a person in the US that doesn't pay one or more of these taxes.
So this idea that a health insurance tax is unique as a tax on "being alive" is just cranky bullshit.
posted by JackFlash at 9:37 AM on March 14, 2017 [74 favorites]
This is just Republican bullshit framing -- much like the "death tax."
You pay taxes for everything in your life. You pay taxes on your wages, you pay taxes on the food you eat, you pay taxes on property you own, you pay taxes on your gasoline, you pay taxes on your car, you pay taxes on your bank accounts. There is not a person in the US that doesn't pay one or more of these taxes.
So this idea that a health insurance tax is unique as a tax on "being alive" is just cranky bullshit.
posted by JackFlash at 9:37 AM on March 14, 2017 [74 favorites]
I'm not sure I understand Bannon's master plan here.
1. Let Ryan roll out a healthcare bill that everybody hates.
2. Watch the bill fail.
3. Blame Democrats for the bill failing.
4. Continue to blame every problem with the healthcare system on Democrats for the next 8 years.
Bad things will happen in the healthcare system in the future (because they always do) and as long as Republicans don't successfully change it, they can't be blamed. The absolute worst thing they could do at this point would be to pass some small changes to Obamacare that don't really accomplish the goals and would expose them to flak forever.
posted by miyabo at 9:38 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
1. Let Ryan roll out a healthcare bill that everybody hates.
2. Watch the bill fail.
3. Blame Democrats for the bill failing.
4. Continue to blame every problem with the healthcare system on Democrats for the next 8 years.
Bad things will happen in the healthcare system in the future (because they always do) and as long as Republicans don't successfully change it, they can't be blamed. The absolute worst thing they could do at this point would be to pass some small changes to Obamacare that don't really accomplish the goals and would expose them to flak forever.
posted by miyabo at 9:38 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
> If you don't want to buy car insurance, no one is forcing you to buy a car. If you don't want to pay income tax, no one is forcing you to earn money. But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death.
This is a willfully tenditious definition of "force." Contemporary power operates less through direct acts of violence against the victims of power, and more through denying its victims access to needed resources. It's less about actively making the object of force dead, and more about letting the disfavored die.
I do not think it is possible for someone, at least someone in the lower 48, to live without in some way interacting with taxation; sales tax, property tax, capital gains tax, etc. If you are legitimately concerned with the mandate's effect on people who live off the grid, you should be more concerned with helping people get the resources they need to live off the grid — that would be a more effective way to spread the type of freedom you envision.
Or you should get with the program and militate for single payer health care instead of health care filtered through insurers.
The fine theological point about whether or not it's theoretically possible to evade every tax other than the ACA fine is moot, since in practical rather than theoretical terms, it is obvious that we must interact in some way with the tax system, or else die.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:38 AM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
This is a willfully tenditious definition of "force." Contemporary power operates less through direct acts of violence against the victims of power, and more through denying its victims access to needed resources. It's less about actively making the object of force dead, and more about letting the disfavored die.
I do not think it is possible for someone, at least someone in the lower 48, to live without in some way interacting with taxation; sales tax, property tax, capital gains tax, etc. If you are legitimately concerned with the mandate's effect on people who live off the grid, you should be more concerned with helping people get the resources they need to live off the grid — that would be a more effective way to spread the type of freedom you envision.
Or you should get with the program and militate for single payer health care instead of health care filtered through insurers.
The fine theological point about whether or not it's theoretically possible to evade every tax other than the ACA fine is moot, since in practical rather than theoretical terms, it is obvious that we must interact in some way with the tax system, or else die.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:38 AM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
That's right! No one forces me to earn money! When I get hungry, I just pop on down to the free food store unlike all you suckers who pay for food. When thunderstorms come, I just go in my free house that I got at the free house place. Don't even get me started at how empty the free clothes places is every time I go there! Why do people die from exposure every winter when they could just have free energy from the free energy fairy? All you people earning money are such suckers! No one's making you do that.
You are kind of describing the concept of a welfare state (and I'm a supporter of that). It is probably a good thing that people have houses, food, clothes etc., even if they don't want to earn money.
posted by jaduncan at 9:40 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
You are kind of describing the concept of a welfare state (and I'm a supporter of that). It is probably a good thing that people have houses, food, clothes etc., even if they don't want to earn money.
posted by jaduncan at 9:40 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
YOU GUYS A MANDATE ROBS ME FROM MY GODGIVEN FREEDOM TO DIE OF AN EASILY TREATABLE ILLNESS IN ABJECT POVERTY
posted by entropicamericana at 9:41 AM on March 14, 2017 [75 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 9:41 AM on March 14, 2017 [75 favorites]
But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death. It is, frankly, a frightening precedent.
I can sort of grok this if you start with a certain set of preconceptions. But if it's a tax, then the people to whom you're paying it are accountable to you. Not to shareholders. Not to boards of directors. If you're not getting your money's worth, you can vote to change it.
I'm sure you've seen the Twitter threads where an American asks "how much did the birth of your kids cost?" and Americans chip in with "oh, $20,000" or "$40,000 because it was difficult" or "$35,000 and insurance covered most of it but there was this $3000 bill out of nowhere which sucked" and non-Americans in developed nations are all "you were charged to have a baby? wtf?"
In America, there is a large charge incurred just by being born. The rest of the developed world thinks this is crazy bonkers. It's up to Americans to provide a compelling justification for this, not the rest of the developed world.
posted by holgate at 9:41 AM on March 14, 2017 [119 favorites]
I can sort of grok this if you start with a certain set of preconceptions. But if it's a tax, then the people to whom you're paying it are accountable to you. Not to shareholders. Not to boards of directors. If you're not getting your money's worth, you can vote to change it.
I'm sure you've seen the Twitter threads where an American asks "how much did the birth of your kids cost?" and Americans chip in with "oh, $20,000" or "$40,000 because it was difficult" or "$35,000 and insurance covered most of it but there was this $3000 bill out of nowhere which sucked" and non-Americans in developed nations are all "you were charged to have a baby? wtf?"
In America, there is a large charge incurred just by being born. The rest of the developed world thinks this is crazy bonkers. It's up to Americans to provide a compelling justification for this, not the rest of the developed world.
posted by holgate at 9:41 AM on March 14, 2017 [119 favorites]
It's not just about that, though. It's that it's the first time in the history of America where you have to pay a tax just for being alive.
If you don't want to buy car insurance, no one is forcing you to buy a car. If you don't want to pay income tax, no one is forcing you to earn money. But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death. It is, frankly, a frightening precedent.
I find this comment really frustrating because it's easy to say you're "Never Trump" but when it comes to something like an actual, concrete GOP policy, one that will literally cost lives, instead of "Okay, I'll work with everyone trying to save lives instead of cost them" it's all "a frightening precedent". I think Trump is bad and dangerous in many, many ways but this is a Republican policy, a terrifying, callous, and dangerous one, and it doesn't fill me with confidence that conservatives, even the ones ostensibly on my side, would rather handwring about the dangerous precedent of taxation than save lives.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [57 favorites]
If you don't want to buy car insurance, no one is forcing you to buy a car. If you don't want to pay income tax, no one is forcing you to earn money. But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death. It is, frankly, a frightening precedent.
I find this comment really frustrating because it's easy to say you're "Never Trump" but when it comes to something like an actual, concrete GOP policy, one that will literally cost lives, instead of "Okay, I'll work with everyone trying to save lives instead of cost them" it's all "a frightening precedent". I think Trump is bad and dangerous in many, many ways but this is a Republican policy, a terrifying, callous, and dangerous one, and it doesn't fill me with confidence that conservatives, even the ones ostensibly on my side, would rather handwring about the dangerous precedent of taxation than save lives.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [57 favorites]
I'm not sure I understand Bannon's master plan here.
1. Let Ryan roll out a healthcare bill that everybody hates.
2. Watch the bill fail.
3. Blame Democrats for the bill failing.
4. Continue to blame every problem with the healthcare system on Democrats for the next 8 years.
I have a bad feeling that the plan is
1. Let Ryan roll out a healthcare bill that everybody hates.
2. Have DJT swoop in and veto the bill, doing a solid for the base, looking all "outsider."
3. Have DJT "broker" a "really better" bill that passes, looking like a boss.
4. Profit.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
1. Let Ryan roll out a healthcare bill that everybody hates.
2. Watch the bill fail.
3. Blame Democrats for the bill failing.
4. Continue to blame every problem with the healthcare system on Democrats for the next 8 years.
I have a bad feeling that the plan is
1. Let Ryan roll out a healthcare bill that everybody hates.
2. Have DJT swoop in and veto the bill, doing a solid for the base, looking all "outsider."
3. Have DJT "broker" a "really better" bill that passes, looking like a boss.
4. Profit.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Corb: interestingly you are one jump away from the suggestion that it would be better funded from a small increase in normal income tax, and at that point single payer makes more sense, no?
I don't like single payer, but yes, I would have vastly preferred if the ACA were funded through a simple tax increase rather than mandating people buy health insurance or face a penalty. I know it may seem weird to some, but this kind of stuff actually matters to me.
So essentially, I think "what form of health care should the government help pay for" is an argument we can have, but "how should it be funded" should be "through the normal taxing authority without creating mandates."
posted by corb at 9:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
I don't like single payer, but yes, I would have vastly preferred if the ACA were funded through a simple tax increase rather than mandating people buy health insurance or face a penalty. I know it may seem weird to some, but this kind of stuff actually matters to me.
So essentially, I think "what form of health care should the government help pay for" is an argument we can have, but "how should it be funded" should be "through the normal taxing authority without creating mandates."
posted by corb at 9:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
But the ACA individual mandate creates a tax that is levied on you at birth and remains with you until your death.
Other people have pointed out the error in the "tax just for being alive" framing, but this point is erroneous as well. Children are under no obligation to provide their own health insurance, and once an individual reaches the statutory age, they're automatically covered under Medicare.
posted by Gelatin at 9:45 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Other people have pointed out the error in the "tax just for being alive" framing, but this point is erroneous as well. Children are under no obligation to provide their own health insurance, and once an individual reaches the statutory age, they're automatically covered under Medicare.
posted by Gelatin at 9:45 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can you explain the difference between "a mandate to pay $X that is assessed at tax time via the IRS" and "a tax processed through the normal taxing authority?"?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:45 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:45 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
No libertarian first principle survives first contact with an actual society, but the whole "forcing" and "compulsory" frame is perhaps the most useless of the lot. If it weren't a state made up of representatives elected by the people forcing you to do something, it would be a warlord, or a benevolent king if you're lucky. We have to all agree on what we are so that we can haggle over the price. No society free of compulsory activity has ever existed, so to split hairs over the differences in how those obligations are enforced is a total waste of time.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:48 AM on March 14, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:48 AM on March 14, 2017 [36 favorites]
The difference is that it's a tax conditional on whether or not you have "chosen" to buy health insurance through a private company.
I think from corb's last few comments, her position is that maintaining a strict separation between the state and private industry is very important, and that therefore a tax that gives you financial incentive to do business with a private company is morally suspect.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think from corb's last few comments, her position is that maintaining a strict separation between the state and private industry is very important, and that therefore a tax that gives you financial incentive to do business with a private company is morally suspect.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
This sounds a lot like "I'm going to wear my seatbelt because that's the smart thing to do but I don't like you telling me I HAVE TO."
posted by phearlez at 9:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 9:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
jaduncan - I was sarcastically pointing out how disingenuous it is to say that "no one forces you to earn money" as some purported justification that taxes are bad - that ordinary people can just blithely "choose" not to pay income tax. I also support a welfare state or social safety net for people who are unable to acquire necessary resources. Heck, I feel fairly certain that automation is going to force a Universal Basic Income in my lifetime. I just think it's beyond ridiculous to claim that in the United States you can effectively avoid earning income. Even people who receive welfare benefits still end up dying of easily avoidable problems due to low or no income - read city papers in the depths of winter and you will always find stories of elderly people dying of exposure because they had to "choose" between a heating bill and some other necessity.
Honestly, if a Republican talking point on their legislation is "Hey, you could just choose not to earn money," I think their idea is dead in the water.
posted by Slothrop at 9:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Honestly, if a Republican talking point on their legislation is "Hey, you could just choose not to earn money," I think their idea is dead in the water.
posted by Slothrop at 9:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
This idea that it's the first time you "had to pay a tax to be alive" is just comical
Every time somebody pays a sales tax, they're paying a tax for the privilege of buying something on an open market. You can't opt out of them even if you, rightly or wrongly, do think you personally "need" the thing. It may not literally be a category of tax on "being alive" since we at least exclude food in most states I think, but the basic idea we've never taxed people in ways someone might choose to construe as coercive and unfair is fashionable nonsense.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Every time somebody pays a sales tax, they're paying a tax for the privilege of buying something on an open market. You can't opt out of them even if you, rightly or wrongly, do think you personally "need" the thing. It may not literally be a category of tax on "being alive" since we at least exclude food in most states I think, but the basic idea we've never taxed people in ways someone might choose to construe as coercive and unfair is fashionable nonsense.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't like single payer, but yes, I would have vastly preferred if the ACA were funded through a simple tax increase rather than mandating people buy health insurance or face a penalty.
It is funded through a variety of simple tax increases. Even the "mandate" is actually just a tax increase - the GOP calls it a penalty, but legally (as affirmed by SCOTUS), it is a tax and is collected as a tax and enforced by our central tax enforcement agency. One can even pre-pay it by increasing their withholding. You are arguing against a strawman ACA invented by the GOP. The actual bill is paid for through our normal taxing authority.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
It is funded through a variety of simple tax increases. Even the "mandate" is actually just a tax increase - the GOP calls it a penalty, but legally (as affirmed by SCOTUS), it is a tax and is collected as a tax and enforced by our central tax enforcement agency. One can even pre-pay it by increasing their withholding. You are arguing against a strawman ACA invented by the GOP. The actual bill is paid for through our normal taxing authority.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
Girl Guides of Canada cancel all trips to the U.S., including trips with final destinations in the US and trips with connecting flights through the US. "We really wanted to make sure that no girl gets left behind," spokesperson says
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [64 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [64 favorites]
So essentially, I think "what form of health care should the government help pay for" is an argument we can have, but "how should it be funded" should be "through the normal taxing authority without creating mandates."
I assume you're aware of and perfectly in agreement with the Sebilus decision that said exactly this, that the mandate was in fact a valid exercise of the tax power.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
I assume you're aware of and perfectly in agreement with the Sebilus decision that said exactly this, that the mandate was in fact a valid exercise of the tax power.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think from corb's last few comments, her position is that maintaining a strict separation between the state and private industry is very important, and that therefore a tax that gives you financial incentive to do business with a private company is morally suspect.
Well, that I can agree with. Again: single payer fixes this. If Republicans were really so concerned about this problem, there is, in fact, a solution. A number of different solutions, actually, that have decades of data behind how effective they variously are.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
Well, that I can agree with. Again: single payer fixes this. If Republicans were really so concerned about this problem, there is, in fact, a solution. A number of different solutions, actually, that have decades of data behind how effective they variously are.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
(I leave it as an exercise for people who've ever made enough money to itemize to list the ways that the tax code is basically suffused with incentives to do business with private industry)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
> therefore a tax that gives you financial incentive to do business with a private company is morally suspect.
Sure, and I could raise the same objection to any policy that subsidizes or in any way favors automobile traffic over public transit, because that policy pushes me strongly in the direction of car ownership, where I'm "forced" to do business with a private company. Ditto the mortgage interest deduction, 401ks... Nearly everything the state does has a significant on the bottom line of a private company, so it's really hard to accept this special pleading about specific instances where the policy has the benefit of keeping people from dying.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sure, and I could raise the same objection to any policy that subsidizes or in any way favors automobile traffic over public transit, because that policy pushes me strongly in the direction of car ownership, where I'm "forced" to do business with a private company. Ditto the mortgage interest deduction, 401ks... Nearly everything the state does has a significant on the bottom line of a private company, so it's really hard to accept this special pleading about specific instances where the policy has the benefit of keeping people from dying.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Republicans, for the most part, prefer people to interact with private companies, even if a tax incentive is involved.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I thought that was pretty blatant sarcasm, no?
Please remember that we're all on edge here, and that the executive branch of the United States along with its ally Russia is waging war against the concept of truth, so please don't be hard on people for not picking up on sarcasm. This is why we have [real] and [fake] tags.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 9:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Please remember that we're all on edge here, and that the executive branch of the United States along with its ally Russia is waging war against the concept of truth, so please don't be hard on people for not picking up on sarcasm. This is why we have [real] and [fake] tags.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 9:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Can you explain the difference between "a mandate to pay $X that is assessed at tax time via the IRS" and "a tax processed through the normal taxing authority?"?
I'm not corb, but I can see the difference. Think about the bistromaths endemic to the healthcare system -- inflated rack rates, bullshit discount rates -- and how the mandate is forced to be complicit in that process by contracting with private entities. We know why it's complicit: the political need in 2009 to gain buy-in from entrenched players, along with the "keep your doctor, keep your plan" stuff for people in the group market. But it also enforces a terrible model.
(The public option might have made a difference here, but it might have also forced public entities to behave like private ones.)
posted by holgate at 9:54 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm not corb, but I can see the difference. Think about the bistromaths endemic to the healthcare system -- inflated rack rates, bullshit discount rates -- and how the mandate is forced to be complicit in that process by contracting with private entities. We know why it's complicit: the political need in 2009 to gain buy-in from entrenched players, along with the "keep your doctor, keep your plan" stuff for people in the group market. But it also enforces a terrible model.
(The public option might have made a difference here, but it might have also forced public entities to behave like private ones.)
posted by holgate at 9:54 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
SNL Weekend update premieres on Thursday, August 10.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:58 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:58 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think from corb's last few comments, her position is that maintaining a strict separation between the state and private industry is very important, and that therefore a tax that gives you financial incentive to do business with a private company is morally suspect.
Yeah, so essentially there's a few big problems I have with it and that is a major one, which goes into other problems with the government pushing you into essentially monopolistic systems in some states but that is a far longer rant than I think anyone has time for.
But the crux of it is that if the government feels it should be in the business of healthcare - which, we can abstractly debate, but it already kind of is, wrt Medicaid, Medicare, etc - I feel it should just provide said healthcare directly. And if it feels that it needs more money to do so, it should take it from its usual money pots, rather than create these penalties to force people into things. And if it feels those money pots aren't big enough because it's expensive, that it should raise its income to provide for said money pots to be larger.
I think there's this idea that Republicans always oppose taxes, no matter what, and I think that broad brush really kind of erases "people who will grumble about more taxes because taxes suck, but also acknowledge that the government needs money and be okay with it if it's necessary."
posted by corb at 10:01 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
Yeah, so essentially there's a few big problems I have with it and that is a major one, which goes into other problems with the government pushing you into essentially monopolistic systems in some states but that is a far longer rant than I think anyone has time for.
But the crux of it is that if the government feels it should be in the business of healthcare - which, we can abstractly debate, but it already kind of is, wrt Medicaid, Medicare, etc - I feel it should just provide said healthcare directly. And if it feels that it needs more money to do so, it should take it from its usual money pots, rather than create these penalties to force people into things. And if it feels those money pots aren't big enough because it's expensive, that it should raise its income to provide for said money pots to be larger.
I think there's this idea that Republicans always oppose taxes, no matter what, and I think that broad brush really kind of erases "people who will grumble about more taxes because taxes suck, but also acknowledge that the government needs money and be okay with it if it's necessary."
posted by corb at 10:01 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
Huh. I wonder why didn't Democrats think of raising taxes and spending more.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:03 AM on March 14, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:03 AM on March 14, 2017 [46 favorites]
Bad things will happen in the healthcare system in the future (because they always do) and as long as Republicans don't successfully change it, they can't be blamed.
Sure they can. They've been calling Obamacare a disaster (a lie) and promising to fix it (another lie) for going on a decade now, and now they have a Republican Congress and President. Their base, drunk with fear and loathing on all the lies they've been told (from "taxed at birth" to "death panels"), expect the Republicans to do something. Whatever happens from here on in, even if they don't do anything to change Obamacare, they own the situation.
The "party of personal responsibility" just wishes they can avoid the blame for what comes next.
posted by Gelatin at 10:03 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sure they can. They've been calling Obamacare a disaster (a lie) and promising to fix it (another lie) for going on a decade now, and now they have a Republican Congress and President. Their base, drunk with fear and loathing on all the lies they've been told (from "taxed at birth" to "death panels"), expect the Republicans to do something. Whatever happens from here on in, even if they don't do anything to change Obamacare, they own the situation.
The "party of personal responsibility" just wishes they can avoid the blame for what comes next.
posted by Gelatin at 10:03 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Bizarro video of Trump's photo op with the Saudi Crown Prince, referring to the media as "nice people."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:04 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:04 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
I feel it should just provide said healthcare directly
Please go forth and speak to your fellow Republicans, because they were the folks who stuck us with the ACA--this was the Heritage Foundation plan, and Romney's plan. If you want people to be able to access health care regardless of their personal assets, and you don't want private companies to be involved, there is a way to do this. It's very popular and works well. We're the only modernized country that doesn't use it. Please talk to your peeps.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [79 favorites]
Please go forth and speak to your fellow Republicans, because they were the folks who stuck us with the ACA--this was the Heritage Foundation plan, and Romney's plan. If you want people to be able to access health care regardless of their personal assets, and you don't want private companies to be involved, there is a way to do this. It's very popular and works well. We're the only modernized country that doesn't use it. Please talk to your peeps.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:06 AM on March 14, 2017 [79 favorites]
We've gone from magically being able to not earn income to having magic "money pots." corb, you would prefer that the ACA was funded by a tax increase, but not by an individual mandate that is leveled as a tax (legally defined as such by the Supreme Court) on the individual who refuses to get coverage? That would mean that everyone else who pays the tax pays for the person who refuses to get coverage, but will with 99.99%* certainty use health care. How is that at all a Republican/Libertarian position? Whatever happened to personal responsibility in that case?
Again, to avoid confusion regarding my sarcasm, I am for universal government-provided healthcare.
*-Emergency room visits have decreased under Obamacare. This is because people without insurance still get sick and injured anyway, and before Obamacare they just went to emergency rooms to be treated.
posted by Slothrop at 10:09 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Again, to avoid confusion regarding my sarcasm, I am for universal government-provided healthcare.
*-Emergency room visits have decreased under Obamacare. This is because people without insurance still get sick and injured anyway, and before Obamacare they just went to emergency rooms to be treated.
posted by Slothrop at 10:09 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think from corb's last few comments, her position is that maintaining a strict separation between the state and private industry is very important, and that therefore a tax that gives you financial incentive to do business with a private company is morally suspect.
If only the Republicans weren't obsessed with taking a page from Margaret Thatcher's destructive playbook and privatizing everything in sight, from roads to prisons.
posted by Gelatin at 10:10 AM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
If only the Republicans weren't obsessed with taking a page from Margaret Thatcher's destructive playbook and privatizing everything in sight, from roads to prisons.
posted by Gelatin at 10:10 AM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
> We know why it's complicit: the political need in 2009 to gain buy-in from entrenched players, along with the "keep your doctor, keep your plan" stuff for people in the group market. But it also enforces a terrible model.
This points toward one of the reasons why I get so bothered by libertarians and other conservatives who insist that engineering freedom requires devising, from first principles, a system that admits to the possibility of freedom. This sounds fine... but we don't live in first principles; we live on Earth, in complex societies with competing powerful institutions, and so we make choices (political choices and other choices) that will tend to produce preferred outcomes, or at least least-bad outcomes, given the constraints on possibility imposed by the actual power of actual institutions. First principles and good intent does not matter; what matters is increasing actual freedom of action for actual people actually here in America. The ACA does that.
I mean, look, putting on my first-principles hat I'll note that genuine material freedom for all requires equal access to resources, rather than the purely formal equality offered by liberal legal systems. The ACA increases material freedom. It doesn't do it as well as expropriating the assets of insurance companies at gunpoint and using them as starter funds for state-provisioned health care — but in reality, right now, in this wretched year 2017, we don't have the force or organization to do anything like that. So we support the ACA, and we support attempts to establish single payer, and we hope that someday, in a better future, we can seize real freedom from out of the hands of our capitalist dominators.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:11 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
This points toward one of the reasons why I get so bothered by libertarians and other conservatives who insist that engineering freedom requires devising, from first principles, a system that admits to the possibility of freedom. This sounds fine... but we don't live in first principles; we live on Earth, in complex societies with competing powerful institutions, and so we make choices (political choices and other choices) that will tend to produce preferred outcomes, or at least least-bad outcomes, given the constraints on possibility imposed by the actual power of actual institutions. First principles and good intent does not matter; what matters is increasing actual freedom of action for actual people actually here in America. The ACA does that.
I mean, look, putting on my first-principles hat I'll note that genuine material freedom for all requires equal access to resources, rather than the purely formal equality offered by liberal legal systems. The ACA increases material freedom. It doesn't do it as well as expropriating the assets of insurance companies at gunpoint and using them as starter funds for state-provisioned health care — but in reality, right now, in this wretched year 2017, we don't have the force or organization to do anything like that. So we support the ACA, and we support attempts to establish single payer, and we hope that someday, in a better future, we can seize real freedom from out of the hands of our capitalist dominators.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:11 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
I think there's this idea that Republicans always oppose taxes, no matter what, and I think that broad brush really kind of erases "people who will grumble about more taxes because taxes suck, but also acknowledge that the government needs money and be okay with it if it's necessary."
But you still haven't listed any taxes that you're ok with increasing. You keep talking in hypotheticals. If you don't believe that health care is a human right, then say so. If you believe it is a human right, then what is your proposal for ensuring that everyone has health care, even those who cannot afford it or those who don't plan ahead and pre-purchase insurance? If Republicans want their considerations taken into account they have to actually propose specific plans based on their specific values. My proposal is medicare for all paid for by progressive taxation and a really high estate tax.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:11 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
But you still haven't listed any taxes that you're ok with increasing. You keep talking in hypotheticals. If you don't believe that health care is a human right, then say so. If you believe it is a human right, then what is your proposal for ensuring that everyone has health care, even those who cannot afford it or those who don't plan ahead and pre-purchase insurance? If Republicans want their considerations taken into account they have to actually propose specific plans based on their specific values. My proposal is medicare for all paid for by progressive taxation and a really high estate tax.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:11 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
It's disheartening how obvious it is when the Trump administration speaks about "Americans," they actually mean a pretty specific subset of Americans.
I have this idea rolling around in my head for a project to reclaim the word "Americans." It would be single image capsule bios of terrific, upstanding people of color, LGBTQ people, and immigrants titled "I LOVE AMERICAns."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:12 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have this idea rolling around in my head for a project to reclaim the word "Americans." It would be single image capsule bios of terrific, upstanding people of color, LGBTQ people, and immigrants titled "I LOVE AMERICAns."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:12 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
This seems to be an ideological/worldview difference, where folks on the right would generally prefer to choose--and succeed, or fuck up--on their own.
The ones who aren't just morally bankrupt opportunists seem to believe innovation is directly connected to survival stress and the desire to win that we valorize in, say, professional athletes. In reality, most truly history making innovations come from bookish intellectuals and deep thinkers who don't give a rat's ass about success as a proxy for social worth and making the big bucks, fairly humble people with modest ambitions for their own personal wealth, like Einstein or Tesla, say. When you make wealth the only respectable ambition to pursue, you end up with a bunch of people whose only ambitions are to get wealthy by whatever means, with any incidental public benefit being only secondary or coincidental to their real aims. That's one of the root problems with modern American "conservatism."
posted by saulgoodman at 10:12 AM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
The ones who aren't just morally bankrupt opportunists seem to believe innovation is directly connected to survival stress and the desire to win that we valorize in, say, professional athletes. In reality, most truly history making innovations come from bookish intellectuals and deep thinkers who don't give a rat's ass about success as a proxy for social worth and making the big bucks, fairly humble people with modest ambitions for their own personal wealth, like Einstein or Tesla, say. When you make wealth the only respectable ambition to pursue, you end up with a bunch of people whose only ambitions are to get wealthy by whatever means, with any incidental public benefit being only secondary or coincidental to their real aims. That's one of the root problems with modern American "conservatism."
posted by saulgoodman at 10:12 AM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
I would be super delighted not to start a corb show where there's 274282 comments trying to thread the needle of exactly what fictional scheme nobody will ever enact would satisfy her.
posted by phearlez at 10:12 AM on March 14, 2017 [71 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 10:12 AM on March 14, 2017 [71 favorites]
I think there's this idea that Republicans always oppose taxes, no matter what, and I think that broad brush really kind of erases "people who will grumble about more taxes because taxes suck, but also acknowledge that the government needs money and be okay with it if it's necessary."
Well, the election of representatives who routinely go the obstructionist, all-taxes-suck route does most of the work on that erasure; this is a problem that comes down to policy in practice, and policy in practice right now is Trump & Co, on the strength of broadly partisan conservative voters, recklessly dropping the other shoe on decades of agitation to demonize and scrap some pretty necessary if sometimes grumble-worthy spending at the direct cost of millions of American's already shaky health care stability.
At a certain point it makes sense to stop fixating on the brush strokes and reconsider instead who is actually putting most of the momentum into the brush.
posted by cortex at 10:13 AM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
Well, the election of representatives who routinely go the obstructionist, all-taxes-suck route does most of the work on that erasure; this is a problem that comes down to policy in practice, and policy in practice right now is Trump & Co, on the strength of broadly partisan conservative voters, recklessly dropping the other shoe on decades of agitation to demonize and scrap some pretty necessary if sometimes grumble-worthy spending at the direct cost of millions of American's already shaky health care stability.
At a certain point it makes sense to stop fixating on the brush strokes and reconsider instead who is actually putting most of the momentum into the brush.
posted by cortex at 10:13 AM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
I think there's this idea that Republicans always oppose taxes, no matter what
Yes, I got this idea from Republicans who seem like the always oppose taxes no matter what.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:14 AM on March 14, 2017 [81 favorites]
Yes, I got this idea from Republicans who seem like the always oppose taxes no matter what.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:14 AM on March 14, 2017 [81 favorites]
a. There is no way to have a complex, functioning human society of some kind without a system of taxation. How those taxes are collected is mostly about logistics (automatically or via penalties/fees) and justice (whether everyone is paying their fair share or not). Both of which are difficult to monitor, and we can and will argue about endlessly but neither of which justifies just tossing the whole idea of taxation.
b. Deducting my single-payer taxes from my check instead of making me jump through a complicated system of levels and penalties would be great! Let's do that.
posted by emjaybee at 10:17 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
b. Deducting my single-payer taxes from my check instead of making me jump through a complicated system of levels and penalties would be great! Let's do that.
posted by emjaybee at 10:17 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Wherein close Trump friend and advisor Chris Ruddy, CEO of NewsMax, advocates for a pubic option.
4. Reject the phony private health insurance market as the panacea. Look to an upgraded Medicaid system to become the country's blanket insurer for the uninsured.
posted by chris24 at 10:18 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
4. Reject the phony private health insurance market as the panacea. Look to an upgraded Medicaid system to become the country's blanket insurer for the uninsured.
posted by chris24 at 10:18 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yes, I got this idea from Republicans who seem like the always oppose taxes no matter what.
AKA A harmed society is a polite society.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:18 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
AKA A harmed society is a polite society.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:18 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
But the crux of it is that if the government feels it should be in the business of healthcare - which, we can abstractly debate, but it already kind of is, wrt Medicaid, Medicare, etc - I feel it should just provide said healthcare directly. And if it feels that it needs more money to do so, it should take it from its usual money pots, rather than create these penalties to force people into things. And if it feels those money pots aren't big enough because it's expensive, that it should raise its income to provide for said money pots to be larger.
corb, I agree with you 100% about this point, but I am compelled to point out that as far as the Republican Party is concerned, it's a complete non-starter. For one thing, because it'd compete with countless numbers of for-profit businesses. The Democrats weren't even able to offer a government-provided health plan ("public option") because its critics stated outright that private plans couldn't compete with it, which should have given the bad faith of their arguments away -- well, it did, for those who were paying attention, which sadly was not the news media, but never mind.
In any case, yes -- the flaws of the ACA is basically that it's one of those "market-based solutions" Republicans keep talking about, in which coverage was gained thru buying private health insurance. We agree that that's far from an optimal solution, but even so, millions of Americans gained health insurance because of it.
posted by Gelatin at 10:19 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
corb, I agree with you 100% about this point, but I am compelled to point out that as far as the Republican Party is concerned, it's a complete non-starter. For one thing, because it'd compete with countless numbers of for-profit businesses. The Democrats weren't even able to offer a government-provided health plan ("public option") because its critics stated outright that private plans couldn't compete with it, which should have given the bad faith of their arguments away -- well, it did, for those who were paying attention, which sadly was not the news media, but never mind.
In any case, yes -- the flaws of the ACA is basically that it's one of those "market-based solutions" Republicans keep talking about, in which coverage was gained thru buying private health insurance. We agree that that's far from an optimal solution, but even so, millions of Americans gained health insurance because of it.
posted by Gelatin at 10:19 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sigh. Ok, if you don't want to pay car insurance so you don't buy a car... but come the day you're walking/biking along and get hit by a car, it's really important that the drive is insured and that you have health insurance, too.
Seriously, all the "I'm young and healthy, why do I need insurance?!" types need to be told that they have to sign a pledge to
a)never ride in--much less operate--a motorvehicle while uncovered
b)never bike while uncovered
c)never walk/sport while uncovered
d)actually, just never leave their hermetically-sealed house while uncovered
I mean, before we get into the "it'll never happen to me!" realm of cancer and other terrible diseases, I currently have 3 friends out with torn ACLs from their various winter sport activities, and another who needed surgery for a broken shoulder after, yep, being hit by a car while biking to work. Good thing everyone involved had some form of insurance! You need health insurance if you want to maintain your current lifestyle, much less to ward off aging and/or catastrophic illness.
posted by TwoStride at 10:20 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Seriously, all the "I'm young and healthy, why do I need insurance?!" types need to be told that they have to sign a pledge to
a)never ride in--much less operate--a motorvehicle while uncovered
b)never bike while uncovered
c)never walk/sport while uncovered
d)actually, just never leave their hermetically-sealed house while uncovered
I mean, before we get into the "it'll never happen to me!" realm of cancer and other terrible diseases, I currently have 3 friends out with torn ACLs from their various winter sport activities, and another who needed surgery for a broken shoulder after, yep, being hit by a car while biking to work. Good thing everyone involved had some form of insurance! You need health insurance if you want to maintain your current lifestyle, much less to ward off aging and/or catastrophic illness.
posted by TwoStride at 10:20 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
This sounds fine... but we don't live in first principles; we live on Earth, in complex societies with competing powerful institutions, and so we make choices (political choices and other choices) that will tend to produce preferred outcomes, or at least least-bad outcomes, given the constraints on possibility imposed by the actual power of actual institutions. First principles and good intent does not matter; what matters is increasing actual freedom of action for actual people actually here in America.
I mean, I think this is honestly the problem with pretty much all political discourse that takes place on the internet, right? Because some of us are talking about first principles at one moment, and some of us are talking about the least-bad options at the same moment, and it's not always clear which we are talking about at any given moment and it makes our stuff look incoherent as fuck. It's hard to have nuanced conversations about "Okay, what do you believe in an ideal world? What about in a not-ideal but still pretty good world? What about a crap one?" when there's fifteen people all trying to get at a different angle of stuff. *
Because I think a lot of our answers are not always the same in all moments. If I'm asking you about your first principles - and I'm super interested in the answers, because I think our first principles always inform our choices - you're going to have a different answer on the ACA or really anything else, than if we're talking about that "in the imperfect (and vulgar-capitalist) world we live in, what specific policy do you want to advance"?
I think right now a lot of people are stressed and jumping down each other's throats because we're zooming in from the small to the large back and forth in a situation that's effectively a wartime footing. The answers of 'what do we do in the age of Trump' are different from 'what would we like to do if we designed the world', and I think it's important to remember that.
*I note as ever, my memail is always open and I am happy to talk nuanced for those who want to get into the fine detail
posted by corb at 10:20 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
I mean, I think this is honestly the problem with pretty much all political discourse that takes place on the internet, right? Because some of us are talking about first principles at one moment, and some of us are talking about the least-bad options at the same moment, and it's not always clear which we are talking about at any given moment and it makes our stuff look incoherent as fuck. It's hard to have nuanced conversations about "Okay, what do you believe in an ideal world? What about in a not-ideal but still pretty good world? What about a crap one?" when there's fifteen people all trying to get at a different angle of stuff. *
Because I think a lot of our answers are not always the same in all moments. If I'm asking you about your first principles - and I'm super interested in the answers, because I think our first principles always inform our choices - you're going to have a different answer on the ACA or really anything else, than if we're talking about that "in the imperfect (and vulgar-capitalist) world we live in, what specific policy do you want to advance"?
I think right now a lot of people are stressed and jumping down each other's throats because we're zooming in from the small to the large back and forth in a situation that's effectively a wartime footing. The answers of 'what do we do in the age of Trump' are different from 'what would we like to do if we designed the world', and I think it's important to remember that.
*I note as ever, my memail is always open and I am happy to talk nuanced for those who want to get into the fine detail
posted by corb at 10:20 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
> Yes, I got this idea from Republicans who seem like the always oppose taxes no matter what.
Not true! Sometimes Republicans support sales taxes.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:20 AM on March 14, 2017
Not true! Sometimes Republicans support sales taxes.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:20 AM on March 14, 2017
I think there's this idea that Republicans always oppose taxes, no matter what, and I think that broad brush really kind of erases "people who will grumble about more taxes because taxes suck, but also acknowledge that the government needs money and be okay with it if it's necessary."
Take it up with Grover Norquist. Republican politicians always oppose taxes, no matter what. Evidence: They wouldn't raise taxes, not even a penny, to pay for the second Gulf War.
posted by Gelatin at 10:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Take it up with Grover Norquist. Republican politicians always oppose taxes, no matter what. Evidence: They wouldn't raise taxes, not even a penny, to pay for the second Gulf War.
posted by Gelatin at 10:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Okay, I see: the ACA makes you buy something from a private entity. Agree, corb, that's grody, but there was nobody--noooobody--on the right arguing what you're arguing now when they were trying to set it up, so they went with Romneycare (which made people buy something from a private entity and nobody--noooobody--on the right argued against it.) (Or they might've but it couldn't've been too many, given it became the law of Mass and then the law of the land).
Perhaps Bannon's plan now is to throw Ryan under the bus, write up a single payer plan that includes an explicit and increasingly baroque-in-phrasing ban on all abortion and birth control funding in every paragraph, and call it something like Brave Eagle. Gin up support for the tax increase to pay for it by calling it the Support Our Unborn Troops and Miners tax.
posted by Don Pepino at 10:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Perhaps Bannon's plan now is to throw Ryan under the bus, write up a single payer plan that includes an explicit and increasingly baroque-in-phrasing ban on all abortion and birth control funding in every paragraph, and call it something like Brave Eagle. Gin up support for the tax increase to pay for it by calling it the Support Our Unborn Troops and Miners tax.
posted by Don Pepino at 10:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
I feel it should just provide said healthcare directly
As an outsider, it seems like Americans too often conflate healthcare and health insurance. This is especially clear when people speak about choice. Some Americans are so wrapped up in choice of health insurance that they don't see how little choice of healthcare even people with supposedly great insurance have.
The argument seems to be "why should I pay for a plan that covers X, Y, Z, if I don't want and will never use X, Y, Z" but this misses that A) Nothing about having a plan that covers these things means you have to have those tests/procedures/services and B) Presumably the thinking is that you're paying more because your plan covers this, but in a single payer system, what you pay is based on your means, not on what services you need/use/are at risk of using. C) And if you're thinking "but if it didn't cover X,Y,Z for the people who DO want/need it, then I'd pay less, then you're a jerk.
Anyway, once you have a single payer system in place EVERY doctor, EVERY hospital, EVERY procedure, is available to EVERYONE. So yeah, you only have one health insurance plan to choose from, but you have full choice of healthcare that as far as I can tell, no US private insurer offers. There are no networks. No approved providers. Nobody but your doctor and you deciding what procedures/services you should have. Never have to worry about whether something is covered. Never have to call your insurance company for any reason. Never get a bill or statement in the mail. Never give a thought to money when you're in the hospital (well, parking costs near hospitals are not as well-regulated as they should be, at least here). Never have to declare to anyone that this doc or that is your "PCP" (wtf? whose business is that?). Never send your private health information to your insurer.
It seems strange to me that anyone would want more choice of insurance so they could have more limited choice of healthcare and have to deal with all the hassles of an insurance company.
Oh, and most healthcare providers ARE private businesses, so it's not the government providing heallthcare, they're providing health insurance. You then take your insurance and get your healthcare wherever you want mostly from the private sector. I think this works well because the healthcare providers DO have to compete with each other. If I don't like one doctor or clinic or lab or hospital (though hospitals are mostly public-ish) I can up and go to another.
So yeah, reasonable Americans, you should be pushing for more choice, but part of that needs to be pointing out how every private insurance company severely limits your choice, and they should be required to get out of the business of telling you where you can get your healthcare or what healthcare you should get. If they can't do that, then maybe they should get out of the health insurance business all together and leave it to someone who can.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:23 AM on March 14, 2017 [73 favorites]
As an outsider, it seems like Americans too often conflate healthcare and health insurance. This is especially clear when people speak about choice. Some Americans are so wrapped up in choice of health insurance that they don't see how little choice of healthcare even people with supposedly great insurance have.
The argument seems to be "why should I pay for a plan that covers X, Y, Z, if I don't want and will never use X, Y, Z" but this misses that A) Nothing about having a plan that covers these things means you have to have those tests/procedures/services and B) Presumably the thinking is that you're paying more because your plan covers this, but in a single payer system, what you pay is based on your means, not on what services you need/use/are at risk of using. C) And if you're thinking "but if it didn't cover X,Y,Z for the people who DO want/need it, then I'd pay less, then you're a jerk.
Anyway, once you have a single payer system in place EVERY doctor, EVERY hospital, EVERY procedure, is available to EVERYONE. So yeah, you only have one health insurance plan to choose from, but you have full choice of healthcare that as far as I can tell, no US private insurer offers. There are no networks. No approved providers. Nobody but your doctor and you deciding what procedures/services you should have. Never have to worry about whether something is covered. Never have to call your insurance company for any reason. Never get a bill or statement in the mail. Never give a thought to money when you're in the hospital (well, parking costs near hospitals are not as well-regulated as they should be, at least here). Never have to declare to anyone that this doc or that is your "PCP" (wtf? whose business is that?). Never send your private health information to your insurer.
It seems strange to me that anyone would want more choice of insurance so they could have more limited choice of healthcare and have to deal with all the hassles of an insurance company.
Oh, and most healthcare providers ARE private businesses, so it's not the government providing heallthcare, they're providing health insurance. You then take your insurance and get your healthcare wherever you want mostly from the private sector. I think this works well because the healthcare providers DO have to compete with each other. If I don't like one doctor or clinic or lab or hospital (though hospitals are mostly public-ish) I can up and go to another.
So yeah, reasonable Americans, you should be pushing for more choice, but part of that needs to be pointing out how every private insurance company severely limits your choice, and they should be required to get out of the business of telling you where you can get your healthcare or what healthcare you should get. If they can't do that, then maybe they should get out of the health insurance business all together and leave it to someone who can.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:23 AM on March 14, 2017 [73 favorites]
David Frum (who's Canadian, so his conservatism comes from a different set of foundations) offers a sane conservative alternative: accept universality, work on cost control at the provider level, not by foisting it on individuals who simply aren't in a position to make informed and cost-efficient choices because of how the market is structured and how ill health works. It's not something the GOP in its current form will support, especially not when the HHS secretary is an insider-trading profiteer.
The Dutch system is a decent model here. It's very Dutch, very consensus and committee. A payroll tax covers chronic and long-term stuff (and also abortions) and then "regular doctor stuff" is from premiums to competing private (not-for-profit) companies, or to a subsidised public option for those with low incomes. Lots of risk equalisation, lots of hard negotiations to set the reimbursement rates for providers.
posted by holgate at 10:24 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Dutch system is a decent model here. It's very Dutch, very consensus and committee. A payroll tax covers chronic and long-term stuff (and also abortions) and then "regular doctor stuff" is from premiums to competing private (not-for-profit) companies, or to a subsidised public option for those with low incomes. Lots of risk equalisation, lots of hard negotiations to set the reimbursement rates for providers.
posted by holgate at 10:24 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
a. There is no way to have a complex, functioning human society of some kind without a system of taxation.
I think there might be on first principles alone personally, but we've already got a system in place with institutional momentum and political realities and cultural realities that make the kind of wholesale structural reform thinking and deep reform impossible in practice. If the Federal government just started printing its own money to pay its own working budget without radically boosting spending, we could bypass the bond markets and create GDP growth directly without hyperinflation, and you wouldn't need an income tax base. You'd still want to tax the extremely wealthy though to solve the surplus capital problem. But that's my personal hobby horse, and I agree it's a relatively new way of thinking about how a monetary system might work, but it's basically just radical Keynesian economics applied literally and I think it could work with enough will.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:25 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think there might be on first principles alone personally, but we've already got a system in place with institutional momentum and political realities and cultural realities that make the kind of wholesale structural reform thinking and deep reform impossible in practice. If the Federal government just started printing its own money to pay its own working budget without radically boosting spending, we could bypass the bond markets and create GDP growth directly without hyperinflation, and you wouldn't need an income tax base. You'd still want to tax the extremely wealthy though to solve the surplus capital problem. But that's my personal hobby horse, and I agree it's a relatively new way of thinking about how a monetary system might work, but it's basically just radical Keynesian economics applied literally and I think it could work with enough will.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:25 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have this idea rolling around in my head for a project to reclaim the word "Americans."
John Cena is here to help you out.
posted by Gelatin at 10:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
John Cena is here to help you out.
posted by Gelatin at 10:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
I don't like single payer, but yes, I would have vastly preferred if the ACA were funded through a simple tax increase rather than mandating people buy health insurance or face a penalty.
Easy Peasy. Employer assessed payroll tax, which goes to the Medicare trust rather than some health insurance company.
YOUR NET PAY STAYS THE SAME. There's no 'mandate' on anyone, but rather a regulation that Artificial Legal Entities applying for an EIN have to comply with.
posted by mikelieman at 10:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Easy Peasy. Employer assessed payroll tax, which goes to the Medicare trust rather than some health insurance company.
YOUR NET PAY STAYS THE SAME. There's no 'mandate' on anyone, but rather a regulation that Artificial Legal Entities applying for an EIN have to comply with.
posted by mikelieman at 10:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
By my back of the envelope calculations I have paid somewhere around $16000 worth of my taxes to help the US government kill people since 2012. That money included all the 'bistromaths' endemic to healthcare as well. The only difference is the government did the contracts on my behalf with General Dynamics, Northrop Grumman, BAE and others. So I guess my hands are clean because I didn't pay them directly. Yet I am still that much poorer, defense contractors are that much richer and the dead are still that dead.
posted by srboisvert at 10:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 10:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
> I mean, I think this is honestly the problem with pretty much all political discourse that takes place on the internet, right? Because some of us are talking about first principles at one moment, and some of us are talking about the least-bad options at the same moment, and it's not always clear which we are talking about at any given moment and it makes our stuff look incoherent as fuck. It's hard to have nuanced conversations about "Okay, what do you believe in an ideal world? What about in a not-ideal but still pretty good world? What about a crap one?" when there's fifteen people all trying to get at a different angle of stuff.
Honestly, I think first principles are more or less totally unimportant; there is no such thing as abstract thought, only thought in context. A consequentialist approach to assessing political actions — less "what does this mean and how does it accord with my values?" and more "what does this tend to result in when implemented in its context, and how does that accord with my values" — is more fruitful.
The first approach is a way to have a bunch of on-paper freedoms that get taken away from you by the first cop, landlord, or CEO that can get their grubby little mitts on them. The first approach leads us toward theorycrafting about what's just, while the second approach keeps us focused on actually making a more just world. In the latter approach, it's difficult to justify opposition to the ACA.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:29 AM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
Honestly, I think first principles are more or less totally unimportant; there is no such thing as abstract thought, only thought in context. A consequentialist approach to assessing political actions — less "what does this mean and how does it accord with my values?" and more "what does this tend to result in when implemented in its context, and how does that accord with my values" — is more fruitful.
The first approach is a way to have a bunch of on-paper freedoms that get taken away from you by the first cop, landlord, or CEO that can get their grubby little mitts on them. The first approach leads us toward theorycrafting about what's just, while the second approach keeps us focused on actually making a more just world. In the latter approach, it's difficult to justify opposition to the ACA.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:29 AM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
Republicans love taxes. Here in Kansas, the sales tax and sin taxes were substantially raised by Brownback as a way to (inadequately) cover his massive tax cuts for the rich. National Republicans realize someone's got to pay for the military and they're thrilled to let the middle class do their patriotic duty. They just think the wealthy should have an exemption.
You can see it shown quite baldly when Obama was willing to lower middle class tax rates and the Republicans refused to play along. Can also see it when the Republicans praise people like Trump and Romney for avoiding tax, but criticize poor single moms who avoid it via low wages, credits, and deductions.
posted by honestcoyote at 10:32 AM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
You can see it shown quite baldly when Obama was willing to lower middle class tax rates and the Republicans refused to play along. Can also see it when the Republicans praise people like Trump and Romney for avoiding tax, but criticize poor single moms who avoid it via low wages, credits, and deductions.
posted by honestcoyote at 10:32 AM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
I liked Julian Assange so much more before he found that magic crown that turned him blue and gave him ice powers. I swear, before he started wearing that crown he was a decent guy.
Oh really? Rapist and misogynist Julian Assange used to be a decent guy? When was that exactly?
posted by Squeak Attack at 10:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh really? Rapist and misogynist Julian Assange used to be a decent guy? When was that exactly?
posted by Squeak Attack at 10:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
John Cena is here to help you out.
I want to high five John Cena so much right now.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:34 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I want to high five John Cena so much right now.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:34 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I want to high five John Cena so much right now.
Bear in mind that it would likely kill you.
posted by Etrigan at 10:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Bear in mind that it would likely kill you.
posted by Etrigan at 10:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Oh really? Rapist and misogynist Julian Assange used to be a decent guy?
Years and years ago he was part of the "Rubberhose Cryptography" project, which had some insights. Probably was a creep then too, but it wasn't part of his official bio.
posted by mikelieman at 10:36 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Years and years ago he was part of the "Rubberhose Cryptography" project, which had some insights. Probably was a creep then too, but it wasn't part of his official bio.
posted by mikelieman at 10:36 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I think first principles are more or less totally unimportant;
This time, that might depend on what's left after Trump. If there's not enough left or it's too mangled to repair more efficiently than scrapping altogether, we might end up with a basically razed foundation again here to start building up from scratch again. The Rs and business interests have already corrupted so many of the foundational institutions... :(
Money is an invention, a technology that's supposed to make it easier to allocate resources and accomplish real things. It's become the point instead.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:38 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
This time, that might depend on what's left after Trump. If there's not enough left or it's too mangled to repair more efficiently than scrapping altogether, we might end up with a basically razed foundation again here to start building up from scratch again. The Rs and business interests have already corrupted so many of the foundational institutions... :(
Money is an invention, a technology that's supposed to make it easier to allocate resources and accomplish real things. It's become the point instead.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:38 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here are some talking points for calling legislators to oppose the Paul Ryan's reckless and wasteful tax cut:
* Americans will be paying more $$ for less coverage.
* According to the CBO, 14 million Americans would lose coverage next year. Within a decade 24 million would lose coverage.
* The WH's own estimate says that 26 million Americans would lose coverage in a decade.
* The bill contains nearly $1T in cuts to Medicaid over the next decade.
* The much touted "deficit reduction" of $337B is over not per year, so the yearly reduction is a paltry $30B--a drop in the bucket of our national budget.
* Insurance companies will be allowed to charge our nation's elders more for their insurance.
* Insurance companies will be allowed to use the old system that allowed them to offer extremely high deductible, low-benefit policies that will cost Americans dearly.
* Tens of thousands will die each year because of Paul Ryan and his casual cruelty. (For use in deep blue districts)
Feel free to use any, all, or none of these!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:39 AM on March 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
* Americans will be paying more $$ for less coverage.
* According to the CBO, 14 million Americans would lose coverage next year. Within a decade 24 million would lose coverage.
* The WH's own estimate says that 26 million Americans would lose coverage in a decade.
* The bill contains nearly $1T in cuts to Medicaid over the next decade.
* The much touted "deficit reduction" of $337B is over not per year, so the yearly reduction is a paltry $30B--a drop in the bucket of our national budget.
* Insurance companies will be allowed to charge our nation's elders more for their insurance.
* Insurance companies will be allowed to use the old system that allowed them to offer extremely high deductible, low-benefit policies that will cost Americans dearly.
* Tens of thousands will die each year because of Paul Ryan and his casual cruelty. (For use in deep blue districts)
Feel free to use any, all, or none of these!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:39 AM on March 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
I think the biggest talking point is that 7 million will lose employer provided health insurance. That means at least 3.5 million working republicans will lose health insurance that they used to have. Probably more.
posted by srboisvert at 10:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 10:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
Maybe Ryan is being set up to be the Trumpists' Ernst Röhm?
posted by dazed_one at 10:43 AM on March 14, 2017
posted by dazed_one at 10:43 AM on March 14, 2017
Here are some talking points for calling legislators to oppose the Paul Ryan's reckless and wasteful tax cut:
Senator Schumer's DC office went to voicemail. I suspect some offices aren't open today because of the weather. YMMV
posted by mikelieman at 10:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Senator Schumer's DC office went to voicemail. I suspect some offices aren't open today because of the weather. YMMV
posted by mikelieman at 10:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Of course the most reasonable and humane Republican plan would be the one they came up with in response to HRC's push for universal healthcare in the 1990s, later passed in Massachusetts and dubbed Romneycare.
Whatever happened to that one? They may have had a winner there. They should... Oh... I see.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Whatever happened to that one? They may have had a winner there. They should... Oh... I see.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Maybe Ryan is being set up to be the Trumpists' Ernst Röhm?
No, that'd be Milo Yiannopolis. Or Peter Thiel. Both of them are queer enough for the radical rightwing to kill once they have outlived their usefulness.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:45 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
No, that'd be Milo Yiannopolis. Or Peter Thiel. Both of them are queer enough for the radical rightwing to kill once they have outlived their usefulness.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:45 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Folks, I firmly believe that the U.S. WILL have Single Payer. It may take yet another generation or two to get there, but we will.*
As has been noted here, the health-care-mediated-by-health-insurance-coverage scheme that our country has been experimenting with for the past century has serious flaws and efforts to tinker around the edges aren't sufficient to really fix things. The ACA was a huge leap forward, yes. But because it is still reliant on a profit-driven market of middlemen, it is ultimately unsustainable. Medicare and Medicaid are also unsustainable in the long term, because profit-driven inefficiencies are baked into those programs, too.
We are living through what I think are the death throes of a bad system that has hurt and killed literally millions of Americans (an estimated 40k+ per year). The flailing attempt at TrumpCare is a part of that death spasm. The time is coming when the majority of the voting public will finally be ready to give Single Payer a shot. Maybe it will start in California and spread from there. But once people have it, and get the taste of actual universal health care (and not just "increased access to health insurance") enjoyed by a hundred other countries, there will be no turning back.
American Exceptionalism and The Rugged Individual can only hold back this tide for so long. Eventually the reality faced, and embraced, by every other developed country on the planet will be evident even to us. We're just going to have to slog and fight through a lot more shit before we can get there.**
Which is really sad, because if we could just go ahead and get there, the millions of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars that we are wasting now could be much better invested in developing our civilization in other needed ways.***
*This assumes that the U.S. still exists as such.
**Fuck Joe Lieberman.
***UBI, cures for diseases, and more tiny hats for animals.
posted by darkstar at 10:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
As has been noted here, the health-care-mediated-by-health-insurance-coverage scheme that our country has been experimenting with for the past century has serious flaws and efforts to tinker around the edges aren't sufficient to really fix things. The ACA was a huge leap forward, yes. But because it is still reliant on a profit-driven market of middlemen, it is ultimately unsustainable. Medicare and Medicaid are also unsustainable in the long term, because profit-driven inefficiencies are baked into those programs, too.
We are living through what I think are the death throes of a bad system that has hurt and killed literally millions of Americans (an estimated 40k+ per year). The flailing attempt at TrumpCare is a part of that death spasm. The time is coming when the majority of the voting public will finally be ready to give Single Payer a shot. Maybe it will start in California and spread from there. But once people have it, and get the taste of actual universal health care (and not just "increased access to health insurance") enjoyed by a hundred other countries, there will be no turning back.
American Exceptionalism and The Rugged Individual can only hold back this tide for so long. Eventually the reality faced, and embraced, by every other developed country on the planet will be evident even to us. We're just going to have to slog and fight through a lot more shit before we can get there.**
Which is really sad, because if we could just go ahead and get there, the millions of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars that we are wasting now could be much better invested in developing our civilization in other needed ways.***
*This assumes that the U.S. still exists as such.
**Fuck Joe Lieberman.
***UBI, cures for diseases, and more tiny hats for animals.
posted by darkstar at 10:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
* The much touted "deficit reduction" of $337B is over not per year, so the yearly reduction is a paltry $30B--a drop in the bucket of our national budget.
.8% of budgeted USG spending in 2016. It also only reduces costs because TrumpCare uninsures people by forcing out the old, disabled and children.
posted by chris24 at 10:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
.8% of budgeted USG spending in 2016. It also only reduces costs because TrumpCare uninsures people by forcing out the old, disabled and children.
posted by chris24 at 10:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Folks, I firmly believe that the U.S. WILL have Single Payer. It may take yes another generation or two to get there, but we will.
Will this be before or after the adoption of the metric system and the public acceptance of a dollar coin?
posted by rocket88 at 10:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
Will this be before or after the adoption of the metric system and the public acceptance of a dollar coin?
posted by rocket88 at 10:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
Folks, I firmly believe that the U.S. WILL have Single Payer. It may take yes another generation or two to get there, but we will.
One of the reasons the public option was so strongly opposed was that it'd provide a superior product at a lower price, because for-profit insurance couldn't compete on a cost basis.
Astonishingly, those were the stated reasons at the time.
I agree that a public option would likely be another step on the way to single-payer, which is among the reasons I support it.
posted by Gelatin at 10:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
One of the reasons the public option was so strongly opposed was that it'd provide a superior product at a lower price, because for-profit insurance couldn't compete on a cost basis.
Astonishingly, those were the stated reasons at the time.
Republicans argue that a public plan would invariably drive private insurers out of business and prompt employers to drop private coverage, pushing people who are already insured onto a plan run by the government.
I agree that a public option would likely be another step on the way to single-payer, which is among the reasons I support it.
posted by Gelatin at 10:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
Serious Q: who doesn't Bannon hate? Does he have any positive goals?
His "positive" goal is the restoration of Father Knows Best America™. Male dominated, white dominated, capitalist dominated.
All for the benefit of the "right Christians".
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:53 AM on March 14, 2017
His "positive" goal is the restoration of Father Knows Best America™. Male dominated, white dominated, capitalist dominated.
All for the benefit of the "right Christians".
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:53 AM on March 14, 2017
Folks, I firmly believe that the U.S. WILL have Single Payer. It may take yes another generation or two to get there, but we will.
I mean if the High Warlord of the Irradiated Wastelands Formerly Known As America grants all of his subjects access to his enslaved clan of mutant chirurgeons that counts as single payer right
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:54 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
I mean if the High Warlord of the Irradiated Wastelands Formerly Known As America grants all of his subjects access to his enslaved clan of mutant chirurgeons that counts as single payer right
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:54 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
The White House just released the Washington Post story about cutting federal agencies, as like a press release.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:58 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:58 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
The White House just released the Washington Post story about cutting federal agencies
Jump back -- so, is the WaPo not "fake news" now?
posted by Gelatin at 11:00 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Jump back -- so, is the WaPo not "fake news" now?
posted by Gelatin at 11:00 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maybe someday America will become a real country.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:04 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:04 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe someday America will become a real country.
"What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea." - Mahatma Gandhi
posted by mikelieman at 11:05 AM on March 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
"What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea." - Mahatma Gandhi
posted by mikelieman at 11:05 AM on March 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
are we all arguing over what the best healthcare plan would be?
This is mostly abstract argument, given current circumstances, but "anything that resembles a model used elsewhere" would be an improvement. Most single-payer systems aren't fully single-payer: they offer choices where it's not stupid to have choices. The US has specific challenges that make certain models less suitable (e.g. Singapore, a dense city-state, doesn't have to worry about rural county hospitals or medevacs from remote areas) but that's okay.
People will need healthcare; the cost of the most important bits of healthcare in the developed world (even with the most optimistic efficiency projections) will never ever ever be priced for individual purchase; therefore, mechanisms are needed to spread out that cost across the population, over time, so that the healthy cover the sick in the knowledge that good health is temporary. Paul Ryan cannot even grasp this, because he is a terrible person.
posted by holgate at 11:07 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is mostly abstract argument, given current circumstances, but "anything that resembles a model used elsewhere" would be an improvement. Most single-payer systems aren't fully single-payer: they offer choices where it's not stupid to have choices. The US has specific challenges that make certain models less suitable (e.g. Singapore, a dense city-state, doesn't have to worry about rural county hospitals or medevacs from remote areas) but that's okay.
People will need healthcare; the cost of the most important bits of healthcare in the developed world (even with the most optimistic efficiency projections) will never ever ever be priced for individual purchase; therefore, mechanisms are needed to spread out that cost across the population, over time, so that the healthy cover the sick in the knowledge that good health is temporary. Paul Ryan cannot even grasp this, because he is a terrible person.
posted by holgate at 11:07 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Republicans argue that a public plan would invariably drive private insurers out of business
Wouldn't that be the market working, though? I'm so confused!
posted by kirkaracha at 11:08 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Folks, this article makes me think that Trump may actually go for single payer lite. Meets his campaign promises (if you squint), crushes Ryan and his cohorts, and leaves the Democrats in the dust.
One could thus imagine “Medicaid for all” as a lower-cost alternative to “Medicare for all.” More affluent people would probably find Medicaid coverage to be excessively restrictive for their taste, in which case they would probably seek to obtain supplemental insurance — a practice that’s common in France and some other countries with national health care systems. But the private insurance system would exist as a layer on top of a basic blanket of security that guarantees health care fundamentals for everyone. You could certain tack health savings accounts (Ruddy’s point 7) on top of this as well.posted by maudlin at 11:09 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Now, needless to say, embracing this idea would be a huge break with the ideological orthodoxy of the Republican Party. But Trump really did campaign on a promise of universal coverage. And as he told CBS’s Scott Pelley back during the primary, “the government's gonna pay for it.”
The GOP establishment’s bet since Inauguration Day has been that Trump didn’t really mean it when he said that. And so far, their bet has paid off. Ruddy is suggesting that maybe Trump should stick to the ideas that let him beat the establishment and win the election. It’s an idea that’s so crazy it just might work.
Wouldn't that be the market working, though? I'm so confused!
Well, it would be, except that it isn't fair that the government doesn't have to make a profit (also, ominous but unspecified Big Brother-ish overtones).
posted by Gelatin at 11:10 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, it would be, except that it isn't fair that the government doesn't have to make a profit (also, ominous but unspecified Big Brother-ish overtones).
posted by Gelatin at 11:10 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Republicans argue that a public plan would invariably drive private insurers out of business and prompt employers to drop private coverage, pushing people who are already insured onto a plan run by the government.
No doubt it's old news by now, but I want to make sure highlight the dog-whistley part for people. Corb's pragmatism aside, in my experience (living in the now red Wisconsin) run by the government is seen as a bad thing on the right. You only get one government, the idea goes, and it probably sucks, so instead of making it better, everyone should have "access" to "choice"*. If something is run by the government, it's automatically bad. Not the result, necessarily, but the idea that you can't choose something different if the government product doesn't work for you.
I'm having a hard time articulating the argument, but I guess that's on of the reasons why I'm not really a political conservative anymore.
*See also school choice, etc.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:11 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
No doubt it's old news by now, but I want to make sure highlight the dog-whistley part for people. Corb's pragmatism aside, in my experience (living in the now red Wisconsin) run by the government is seen as a bad thing on the right. You only get one government, the idea goes, and it probably sucks, so instead of making it better, everyone should have "access" to "choice"*. If something is run by the government, it's automatically bad. Not the result, necessarily, but the idea that you can't choose something different if the government product doesn't work for you.
I'm having a hard time articulating the argument, but I guess that's on of the reasons why I'm not really a political conservative anymore.
*See also school choice, etc.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:11 AM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Folks, this article makes me think that Trump may actually go for single payer lite. Meets his campaign promises (if you squint), crushes Ryan and his cohorts
Let me stop you right there: And so Randian Ryan and his cohorts in the House are going to vote for single-payer why, exactly? As a favor to Trump?
posted by Gelatin at 11:11 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Let me stop you right there: And so Randian Ryan and his cohorts in the House are going to vote for single-payer why, exactly? As a favor to Trump?
posted by Gelatin at 11:11 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think I'm wrong on something, and would like to be corrected:
Did US corporations really lobby against public health insurance in the 1920s-1930s because "health insurance as a job benefit" was seen as a way to keep workers from jobhopping?
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:13 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Did US corporations really lobby against public health insurance in the 1920s-1930s because "health insurance as a job benefit" was seen as a way to keep workers from jobhopping?
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:13 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
We need to start hammering home the point that even in mainstream economic theory, a perfectly efficient system doesn't have room or need for profit. Profit is what you get by shortchanging or not maintaining assets properly or not passing along material savings to consumers. Creating profit necessarily requires squeezing out more money than should be left over once all costs and externalities are properly accounted for. Anytime you privatize any sector to allow for profit in the mix, you make the sector less efficient in that sense.
There's a sort of brand loyalty at work that makes some think any public service will necessarily be less efficient than a private one performing the same function because its leaders aren't motivated to be fiscally responsible, but in a certain sense, profit seeking isn't fiscally responsible from a public interest point of view in the first place. The profit motive can easily corrupt the core mission of an organization. I mean, look what market forces have done to retail stores: more and more, companies don't have any particular focus other than making money by any means, so you end up with weird mission creep/corruption stuff in the private sector all the time, like MTV morphing from an outlet dedicated to broadcasting and promoting music videos to being about lifestyle and reality TV and dabbling in just about every kind of commercial enterprise.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:14 AM on March 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
There's a sort of brand loyalty at work that makes some think any public service will necessarily be less efficient than a private one performing the same function because its leaders aren't motivated to be fiscally responsible, but in a certain sense, profit seeking isn't fiscally responsible from a public interest point of view in the first place. The profit motive can easily corrupt the core mission of an organization. I mean, look what market forces have done to retail stores: more and more, companies don't have any particular focus other than making money by any means, so you end up with weird mission creep/corruption stuff in the private sector all the time, like MTV morphing from an outlet dedicated to broadcasting and promoting music videos to being about lifestyle and reality TV and dabbling in just about every kind of commercial enterprise.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:14 AM on March 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
And so Randian Ryan and his cohorts in the House are going to vote for single-payer why, exactly? As a favor to Trump?
Have they yet actually stood up to him when they had an opportunity not to roll over and show their bellies?
posted by Etrigan at 11:15 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Have they yet actually stood up to him when they had an opportunity not to roll over and show their bellies?
posted by Etrigan at 11:15 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Two things before we move on to Spicey Time
Welfare was a Conservative invention. German Reichschancellor Bismarck introduced universal welfare in Germany to stop the rising tide of Social Democracy (not even Communism). In the late 19th century.
Also, it seems that very often young white men argue that they don't need insurance, because they don't need healthcare. Because they are all paleo and do their benchwork, or whatever. This thread has reminded me of my personal experience. When I was in 8th grade, our biology teacher told us that at least one from our class would die before we were 30 and it would most likely be a boy, and that happened. Actually many of my friends died before we were 30, and all of them were men. Most of them upper middle class white men, though that guy from my class wasn't. They died from cancer, heart attacks, suicide, overdoses. Most of them from completely unexpected illnesses. One cousin was run over by a car when he was a ten.
Among people I knew who died before they were 50, there are far more men, and three women, one died from an eating disorder, one was brutally murdered, and one had a known heart disease and an eating disorder.
So this is pure anecdote, but is seems that the demographic who needs insurance the most are also those who imagine they don't need it at all. Not anecdotally, statistics agree with me. Men have a far higher mortality than women. But they are less likely to support universal healthcare.
posted by mumimor at 11:15 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
Welfare was a Conservative invention. German Reichschancellor Bismarck introduced universal welfare in Germany to stop the rising tide of Social Democracy (not even Communism). In the late 19th century.
Also, it seems that very often young white men argue that they don't need insurance, because they don't need healthcare. Because they are all paleo and do their benchwork, or whatever. This thread has reminded me of my personal experience. When I was in 8th grade, our biology teacher told us that at least one from our class would die before we were 30 and it would most likely be a boy, and that happened. Actually many of my friends died before we were 30, and all of them were men. Most of them upper middle class white men, though that guy from my class wasn't. They died from cancer, heart attacks, suicide, overdoses. Most of them from completely unexpected illnesses. One cousin was run over by a car when he was a ten.
Among people I knew who died before they were 50, there are far more men, and three women, one died from an eating disorder, one was brutally murdered, and one had a known heart disease and an eating disorder.
So this is pure anecdote, but is seems that the demographic who needs insurance the most are also those who imagine they don't need it at all. Not anecdotally, statistics agree with me. Men have a far higher mortality than women. But they are less likely to support universal healthcare.
posted by mumimor at 11:15 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
I too favor state-run MTV
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:15 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:15 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's that it's the first time in the history of America where you have to pay a tax just for being alive.
before the revolution, i believe the colonies were subject to poll taxes - The Massachusetts law of 1646 served as a model for the New England colonies. Every male 16 years and older, the year of registration for potential military service, was required to pay an annual tax of 1s. For administrative simplicity, the tax was often combined with the country rate.
so, you see, it IS NOT the first time
posted by pyramid termite at 11:15 AM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
before the revolution, i believe the colonies were subject to poll taxes - The Massachusetts law of 1646 served as a model for the New England colonies. Every male 16 years and older, the year of registration for potential military service, was required to pay an annual tax of 1s. For administrative simplicity, the tax was often combined with the country rate.
so, you see, it IS NOT the first time
posted by pyramid termite at 11:15 AM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
If something is run by the government, it's automatically bad. Not the result, necessarily, but the idea that you can't choose something different if the government product doesn't work for you.
Included in there is the assumption, implicit or otherwise, that the "moochers" could just continue to vote themselves more and more generous benefits, to be paid for by the actually productive members of society.
(Also note that private "medigap" coverage is a thing that exists; I agree that it's a dog whistle, but it's also deceptive to imply that a cheaper public option is the equivalent of outlawing private insurance altogether.)
posted by Gelatin at 11:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Included in there is the assumption, implicit or otherwise, that the "moochers" could just continue to vote themselves more and more generous benefits, to be paid for by the actually productive members of society.
(Also note that private "medigap" coverage is a thing that exists; I agree that it's a dog whistle, but it's also deceptive to imply that a cheaper public option is the equivalent of outlawing private insurance altogether.)
posted by Gelatin at 11:16 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Spicey is claiming the CBO numbers are not a good reference because they don't fully take into account their magic three-pronged plan.
[violent imagery redacted]
Bottom line, fuck you, you ghouls.
posted by prefpara at 11:17 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
[violent imagery redacted]
Bottom line, fuck you, you ghouls.
posted by prefpara at 11:17 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Spicer's latest compliant is that the CBO score doesn't take into account "phases 2 and 3," which literally do not exist. He is upset the CBO has not scored random fantasies rather than actual legislative language.
posted by zachlipton at 11:17 AM on March 14, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:17 AM on March 14, 2017 [37 favorites]
So the White House line is that the CBO is a budget office and doesn't know anything about healthcare, so the $337 billion deficit number can be trusted but the 24 million dropped is fake
posted by theodolite at 11:17 AM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 11:17 AM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
Spicer explicitly endorsing the Underpants Gnome Theory of Healthcare.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:18 AM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 11:18 AM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
Maybe Trump could lean on his past experience to create some kind of Single Nonpayer health plan where the government agrees to pay healthcare providers but then doesn't.
posted by snofoam at 11:19 AM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 11:19 AM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
Spicer claims that many Americans have no choices.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:20 AM on March 14, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:20 AM on March 14, 2017
Welfare was a Conservative invention. German Reichschancellor Bismarck introduced universal welfare in Germany to stop the rising tide of Social Democracy (not even Communism). In the late 19th century.
Which Marx predicted. One of the many outrageous aspects of the Republican war on the New Deal is that FDR arguably saved the US from Communism and -- at least at the time -- fascism. Marx maintained that the liberal reforms would only forestall, not prevent, the ultimate proletarian revolution, but FDR proved him wrong, and for some reason the Republicans have never forgiven him.
posted by Gelatin at 11:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Which Marx predicted. One of the many outrageous aspects of the Republican war on the New Deal is that FDR arguably saved the US from Communism and -- at least at the time -- fascism. Marx maintained that the liberal reforms would only forestall, not prevent, the ultimate proletarian revolution, but FDR proved him wrong, and for some reason the Republicans have never forgiven him.
posted by Gelatin at 11:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Spicer's latest compliant is that the CBO score doesn't take into account "phases 2 and 3," which literally do not exist.
Remember that one guy who loudly defended The Phantom Menace in 1999 because we hadn't seen the full scope of what Lucas had planned yet?
posted by Etrigan at 11:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [44 favorites]
Remember that one guy who loudly defended The Phantom Menace in 1999 because we hadn't seen the full scope of what Lucas had planned yet?
posted by Etrigan at 11:21 AM on March 14, 2017 [44 favorites]
Spicey is claiming the CBO numbers are not a good reference because they don't fully take into account their magic three-pronged plan.
Of course, nothing was stopping them from putting their magic three-pronged plan on the table in the first place, except that the CBO would fully take it into account. It's an implicit admission that the results would not be pretty.
If only the political media had learned to not be fooled by "secret plans" after Nixon.
posted by Gelatin at 11:23 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Of course, nothing was stopping them from putting their magic three-pronged plan on the table in the first place, except that the CBO would fully take it into account. It's an implicit admission that the results would not be pretty.
If only the political media had learned to not be fooled by "secret plans" after Nixon.
posted by Gelatin at 11:23 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Reporter: ok Sean, so what specifically will be in phase 2 and 3?
Sean: competition.
posted by prefpara at 11:25 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sean: competition.
posted by prefpara at 11:25 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Folks, this article makes me think that Trump may actually go for single payer lite. Meets his campaign promises (if you squint), crushes Ryan and his cohorts, and leaves the Democrats in the dust.
Maybe Trump would but I don't see how President Bannon and his "dismantle the administrative state" goes for an expansion of medicare. Nothing in any of their actions thus far has indicated a willingness to grow government. Even if you could get House and Senate (R)s on board, which I find hard to believe.
posted by phearlez at 11:25 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Maybe Trump would but I don't see how President Bannon and his "dismantle the administrative state" goes for an expansion of medicare. Nothing in any of their actions thus far has indicated a willingness to grow government. Even if you could get House and Senate (R)s on board, which I find hard to believe.
posted by phearlez at 11:25 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump would introduce single payer if he could be bothered to figure out how government works. It is totally consistent with his thinking (insomuch as there is a line or a thought there). But, he can't be bothered to figure out how government works. So there's that.
posted by mumimor at 11:25 AM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 11:25 AM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
So how about that town hall with the Senate Dems' outreach chair?
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:26 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nothing in any of their actions thus far has indicated a willingness to grow government.
They're pretty happy to grow the CBP, and the military.
posted by emjaybee at 11:27 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
They're pretty happy to grow the CBP, and the military.
posted by emjaybee at 11:27 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Gah, phases 2 & 3.
It's been Trump's MO from the start of his campaign, from proposals to tax returns -- promise that the great, unbelievable, the most incredible [THING] is coming later and close with "what-have-you-got-to-lose?"
Still waiting on tax returns. And actual policy proposals.
posted by notyou at 11:31 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
It's been Trump's MO from the start of his campaign, from proposals to tax returns -- promise that the great, unbelievable, the most incredible [THING] is coming later and close with "what-have-you-got-to-lose?"
Still waiting on tax returns. And actual policy proposals.
posted by notyou at 11:31 AM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
No problem. Just pass stage 1 when stage 2 and 3 are also ready to present.
posted by jaduncan at 11:31 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 11:31 AM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Spicer's chutzpah to claim that the CBO can estimate budgets but not count the number of uninsured is really something. They go together. They figure out how much money the government will have to pay in subsidies and Medicaid by figuring out how many people will receive them. The only way to get the budget savings is by having more people uninsured. You can't be happy about the budget numbers without accepting the number of uninsured people.
posted by zachlipton at 11:32 AM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:32 AM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
So how about that town hall with the Senate Dems' outreach chair?
if this reaction from the crowd in a deep-red area re: a coal miner expressing support for universal coverage doesn't get the dems to go all-in for single payer...
like, now is the PERFECT time for them to hammer on medicare for all, but instead we're getting "uhhh this needs some revision doesn't it!!"
just thinking about this is getting my blood pressure up so i'm gonna go take some deep breaths and stare out the window for a bit
posted by burgerrr at 11:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
if this reaction from the crowd in a deep-red area re: a coal miner expressing support for universal coverage doesn't get the dems to go all-in for single payer...
like, now is the PERFECT time for them to hammer on medicare for all, but instead we're getting "uhhh this needs some revision doesn't it!!"
just thinking about this is getting my blood pressure up so i'm gonna go take some deep breaths and stare out the window for a bit
posted by burgerrr at 11:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
Gah, phases 2 & 3.
It's been Trump's MO from the start of his campaign, from proposals to tax returns -- promise that the great, unbelievable, the most incredible [THING] is coming later and close with "what-have-you-got-to-lose?"
I can guarantee you he has referred to Melania as "Phase 3" at least once. While she was standing there.
posted by Etrigan at 11:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's been Trump's MO from the start of his campaign, from proposals to tax returns -- promise that the great, unbelievable, the most incredible [THING] is coming later and close with "what-have-you-got-to-lose?"
I can guarantee you he has referred to Melania as "Phase 3" at least once. While she was standing there.
posted by Etrigan at 11:33 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I know this is petty, but will Spicer ever stop prefacing every fucking answer with "I think"?
He literally chastised a reporter yesterday for asking him for his personal opinion, which he apparently understands is not what he is there to provide.
posted by prefpara at 11:34 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
He literally chastised a reporter yesterday for asking him for his personal opinion, which he apparently understands is not what he is there to provide.
posted by prefpara at 11:34 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
I know not what Phase 3 will be, but Phase 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:34 AM on March 14, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:34 AM on March 14, 2017 [39 favorites]
"What about Phases 2 and 3?"
"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:35 AM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
Spicer claims that 80% of Americans don't support sanctuary cities.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:38 AM on March 14, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:38 AM on March 14, 2017
in sum:
Phase 1: Repeal Obamacare
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
posted by entropicamericana at 11:39 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Phase 1: Repeal Obamacare
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
posted by entropicamericana at 11:39 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
We need to figure out how to position a single payer approach politically now, before the Millennials move into the high health care cost years. That includes determining how to relate the strategy to what everyone "knows" about the baby boom generation decimating Social Security and burdening Medicare and the VA System. How can we educate low information voters about how to harness actuarial science for societal good, especially when they fear demographic bulges? One angle: on a personal level, a lot of people have experienced life in the sandwich generation, caring for both young children and older parents simultaneously. No one wants that for their kids, and single payer can help.
posted by carmicha at 11:40 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by carmicha at 11:40 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Spicer claims that 80% of Americans don't support sanctuary cities.
Also expands the "city won't hold people for ICE pickup" definition of sanctuary cities to "city allows any undocumented immigrants to access any public services."
posted by melissasaurus at 11:40 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also expands the "city won't hold people for ICE pickup" definition of sanctuary cities to "city allows any undocumented immigrants to access any public services."
posted by melissasaurus at 11:40 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Percentages are apparently another thing this administration doesn't understand.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:40 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 11:40 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
LOL, a reporter asked how the CBO was supposed to take something into consideration that does not exist.
Spicer says that you can't base your score off of "one piece of information."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:41 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Spicer says that you can't base your score off of "one piece of information."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:41 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
80% of people don't understand what a Sanctuary City is.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
Spicer claims that 80% of Americans don't support sanctuary cities.
. . . 80% of Americans probably live in a Sanctuary area.
Or are we just talking about Real Americans?
posted by dinty_moore at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
. . . 80% of Americans probably live in a Sanctuary area.
Or are we just talking about Real Americans?
posted by dinty_moore at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
"Medicaid for all, funded from taxation" is the kind of thing that would trigger a bish-bosh-bash impeachment process to usher in Mike Pence, whose Indiana version of Medicaid expansion was notable in its meanness. The man's attitude to public health is on record: he presided over a HIV epidemic spread by dirty needles. If Bannon could finagle "Medicaid for all white folks", though...
posted by holgate at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by holgate at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nothing in any of their actions thus far has indicated a willingness to grow government.
They're pretty happy to grow the CBP, and the military.
I was thinking more in the sense of "expanding responsibility."
posted by phearlez at 11:43 AM on March 14, 2017
They're pretty happy to grow the CBP, and the military.
I was thinking more in the sense of "expanding responsibility."
posted by phearlez at 11:43 AM on March 14, 2017
Trump already trotted the sanctuary cities percentage out a few weeks ago.
Source: Fucking infowars.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Source: Fucking infowars.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, that 80% number appears to be accurate. Or at least an actual poll number.
posted by notyou at 11:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 11:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Q: How can the CBO take into account phases 2 and 3 when they don't exist?
A: That's a question for the House, but it's bad that the CBO based their score off of just this one piece of information. You all should have reported last night that this was just one of three parts. We always talk about all three parts but you people report it without that.
Spicer seems hurt that people don't take his mythical phases 2 and 3 seriously.
posted by zachlipton at 11:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
A: That's a question for the House, but it's bad that the CBO based their score off of just this one piece of information. You all should have reported last night that this was just one of three parts. We always talk about all three parts but you people report it without that.
Spicer seems hurt that people don't take his mythical phases 2 and 3 seriously.
posted by zachlipton at 11:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
After the revolution, I say we put Spicer and Conway on stage and have them each argue that the other does not exist until they both disappear in a puff of smoke.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
80% of people don't understand what a Sanctuary City is.
I certainly don't, because it's my impression as I read the various arguments about whether or not Austin counts as one that the term has no clear meaning outside of an attempt to signal something to one side or another!
posted by sciatrix at 11:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
I certainly don't, because it's my impression as I read the various arguments about whether or not Austin counts as one that the term has no clear meaning outside of an attempt to signal something to one side or another!
posted by sciatrix at 11:44 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think they should argue about who's first against the wall.
posted by notyou at 11:45 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by notyou at 11:45 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, that 80% number appears to be accurate. Or at least an actual poll number.
posted by Etrigan at 11:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
An overwhelming majority of Americans believe that cities that arrest illegal immigrants for crimes should be required to turn them over to federal authorities.I'll see your "80% of Americans don't know what the fuck they're talking about", and I'll raise you "And neither do some pollsters and/or The Hill writers".
...
A survey from Harvard–Harris Poll provided exclusively to The Hill found that 80 percent of voters say local authorities should have to comply with the law by reporting to federal agents the illegal immigrants they come into contact with.
posted by Etrigan at 11:46 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Donald Trump set to completely scrap US consumer protection agency, says man expected to lead it
Loan sharks, payday lenders and rogue debt collectors could be given carte blanche to rip off American customers as part of a touted shake up of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB).
Randy Neugebauer, considered the favourite to replace the current director of the CFPB, said Mr Trump was facing pressure from inside the Republican Party to dismantle the agency entirely.
posted by futz at 11:47 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
Loan sharks, payday lenders and rogue debt collectors could be given carte blanche to rip off American customers as part of a touted shake up of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB).
Randy Neugebauer, considered the favourite to replace the current director of the CFPB, said Mr Trump was facing pressure from inside the Republican Party to dismantle the agency entirely.
posted by futz at 11:47 AM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
(I support the stuff we are doing to protect immigrants and not turn anyone over to ICE without a criminal warrant here, for clarity. I am just really tired of arguing about sanctuary cities as a term because oh my God could you fuckers not.)
posted by sciatrix at 11:47 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by sciatrix at 11:47 AM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Politico: Why Trump's prosecutor purge could haunt the GOP.
Former prosecutors tend to be good candidates for public office for both parties.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
Former prosecutors tend to be good candidates for public office for both parties.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:49 AM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yeah, that 80% number appears to be accurate. Or at least an actual poll number.
Like the infowars poll that Harvard-Harris poll the Hill is relying on seems a little . . . odd?
DailyKos is hardly un-biased, but they've voiced some suspicions.
Anybody here know anything more?
posted by aspersioncast at 11:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Like the infowars poll that Harvard-Harris poll the Hill is relying on seems a little . . . odd?
DailyKos is hardly un-biased, but they've voiced some suspicions.
Anybody here know anything more?
posted by aspersioncast at 11:50 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I certainly don't, because it's my impression as I read the various arguments about whether or not Austin counts as one that the term has no clear meaning outside of an attempt to signal something to one side or another!
That's because "sanctuary cities" isn't a real thing! Or, wasn't until NY AG Schneiderman drew up model guidelines [pdf] for other states/cities to follow earlier this year.
I think people hear "sanctuary cities" and picture like Bill de Blasio hiding undocumented serial killers in his basement and helping them identify Innocent American Citizens to kill so that the city can collect estate taxes.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's because "sanctuary cities" isn't a real thing! Or, wasn't until NY AG Schneiderman drew up model guidelines [pdf] for other states/cities to follow earlier this year.
I think people hear "sanctuary cities" and picture like Bill de Blasio hiding undocumented serial killers in his basement and helping them identify Innocent American Citizens to kill so that the city can collect estate taxes.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:51 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump set to completely scrap US consumer protection agency, says man expected to lead it
They have no positive solutions for anything. Fucking consumers is the point, just like all taxes (on the rich) is theft.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
They have no positive solutions for anything. Fucking consumers is the point, just like all taxes (on the rich) is theft.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Politico: Why Trump's prosecutor purge could haunt the GOP.
Former prosecutors tend to begood successfully elected candidates for public office for both parties.
Let's phrase that correctly, shall we?
posted by phearlez at 11:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Former prosecutors tend to be
Let's phrase that correctly, shall we?
posted by phearlez at 11:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
I find that Spicey time has become like one of those videos like a snake eating a goat where 8/10 of you is like *don't watch that what's wrong with you* and 2/10 is like *but it's so fucked up I have to witness this fucked up thing*
posted by angrycat at 11:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 11:52 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
Folks, this article makes me think that Trump may actually go for single payer lite. Meets his campaign promises (if you squint), crushes Ryan and his cohorts, and leaves the Democrats in the dust.
Anything's possible. Honestly, at this point, anything. And this is probably what a politically savvy and pugnacious Trump would try to do—outflank his opposition on the left, use his capital to coerce his opponents on the right, and rely on the rest of Americans forgiving him everything else in return. Except: Donnie isn't politically savvy; he isn't particularly pugnacious except when it comes to threatening journalists and immigrants; and he hasn't demonstrated any ability to compel Congress to do anything they don't want to do already.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Anything's possible. Honestly, at this point, anything. And this is probably what a politically savvy and pugnacious Trump would try to do—outflank his opposition on the left, use his capital to coerce his opponents on the right, and rely on the rest of Americans forgiving him everything else in return. Except: Donnie isn't politically savvy; he isn't particularly pugnacious except when it comes to threatening journalists and immigrants; and he hasn't demonstrated any ability to compel Congress to do anything they don't want to do already.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Spicer says there is "significant reporting" and he feels "very confident" that there will be something on the Obama wiretap evidence. He says "no" when asked if it's possible there won't be any evidence.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:53 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
evidence or "evidence"?
posted by thelonius at 11:54 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 11:54 AM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Spicer says there is "significant reporting" and he feels "very confident" that there will be something on the Obama wiretap evidence. He says "no" when asked if it's possible there won't be any evidence.
So they're abandoning the tactic of insisting Trump didn't actually mean wiretapping when he said wiretappping?
posted by flatluigi at 11:55 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
So they're abandoning the tactic of insisting Trump didn't actually mean wiretapping when he said wiretappping?
posted by flatluigi at 11:55 AM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Evi" dense.
posted by valkane at 11:56 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by valkane at 11:56 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
A: That's a question for the House, but it's bad that the CBO based their score off of just this one piece of information. You all should have reported last night that this was just one of three parts. We always talk about all three parts but you people report it without that.
Well, gee, maybe the political press has learned their lesson about "secret plans" after all.
posted by Gelatin at 11:57 AM on March 14, 2017
Well, gee, maybe the political press has learned their lesson about "secret plans" after all.
posted by Gelatin at 11:57 AM on March 14, 2017
Did US corporations really lobby against public health insurance in the 1920s-1930s because "health insurance as a job benefit" was seen as a way to keep workers from jobhopping?
Employer health plans were adopted as a recruiting tool on a large scale during WWII when wages were frozen.
posted by srboisvert at 11:57 AM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
Employer health plans were adopted as a recruiting tool on a large scale during WWII when wages were frozen.
posted by srboisvert at 11:57 AM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
So they're abandoning the tactic of insisting Trump didn't actually mean wiretapping when he said wiretappping?I think the plan is to say a bunch of conflicting nutty stuff when asked about it and assume that at some point there will be a new controversy and everyone will forget about it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:58 AM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
I think the plan is to say a bunch of conflicting nutty stuff when asked about it and assume that at some point there will be a new controversy and everyone will forget about it.
To be fair, experience indicates that would be a pretty fucking solid plan.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:59 AM on March 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
To be fair, experience indicates that would be a pretty fucking solid plan.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:59 AM on March 14, 2017 [33 favorites]
"Look. The President just says shit sometimes and you're going to have to get used to it."
posted by notyou at 12:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by notyou at 12:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
Randy Neugebauer, considered the favourite to replace the current director of the CFPB, said Mr Trump was facing pressure from inside the Republican Party to dismantle the agency entirely.
Amusingly Neugebauer means 'new born'. What better person to dismantle a consumer protection agency than someone who was born yesterday!
posted by srboisvert at 12:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Amusingly Neugebauer means 'new born'. What better person to dismantle a consumer protection agency than someone who was born yesterday!
posted by srboisvert at 12:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Randy Neugebauer, considered the favourite to replace the current director of the CFPB, said Mr Trump was facing pressure from inside the Republican Party to dismantle the agency entirely.
I realize that the executive can cripple an agency by appointing a yahoo to run it, and generally neglecting it, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the CFPB's existence a matter of statute? Wouldn't Congress have to act to abolish it? (Not that they wouldn't, or that we aren't dealing with an abnormal situation...)
posted by Gelatin at 12:02 PM on March 14, 2017
I realize that the executive can cripple an agency by appointing a yahoo to run it, and generally neglecting it, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the CFPB's existence a matter of statute? Wouldn't Congress have to act to abolish it? (Not that they wouldn't, or that we aren't dealing with an abnormal situation...)
posted by Gelatin at 12:02 PM on March 14, 2017
This weekend, my mom, who was a pre-school teacher, was visiting. She compared the Trump administration to that one a-hole toddler who never really gets in trouble because there's simply no time to give him a stern talking to about shoving since you're already busy sopping up the milk he poured onto the floor and anyway, he's now trying to climb onto the cabinet and out the window.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [40 favorites]
isn't the CFPB's existence a matter of statute? Wouldn't Congress have to act to abolish it?
Yes, but it spent the first 18 months of its life without an administrator, because Congress refused to approve any of Obama's appointments. A new agency without an administrator to set policy and do senior hiring is... not very effective.
posted by suelac at 12:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, but it spent the first 18 months of its life without an administrator, because Congress refused to approve any of Obama's appointments. A new agency without an administrator to set policy and do senior hiring is... not very effective.
posted by suelac at 12:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wouldn't that be the market working, though? I'm so confused!
Schumpeter's gale only hits trailer parks and small businesses. It isn't for corporations.
posted by srboisvert at 12:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Schumpeter's gale only hits trailer parks and small businesses. It isn't for corporations.
posted by srboisvert at 12:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Randy Neugebauer, considered the favourite to replace the current director of the CFPB, said Mr Trump was facing pressure from inside the Republican Party to dismantle the agency entirely.
The CFPB had an extremely public example of its effectiveness just last year, when it hit Wells Fargo for creating millions of financial accounts for customers without permission. This was the biggest case the bureau has been involved with, so it was the first time a lot of casually-news-aware Americans noticed it: about as clear-cut a case of big banks screwing over the little people as you could want, and the CFPB came out as the hero. This should be the easiest political narrative in the world: the GOP wants to destroy the agency that keeps you safe from financial predators. Hits right at the middle-class, the heroes and villains are obvious, and if the Democrats can't make this case then I don't even know.
posted by skymt at 12:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [64 favorites]
The CFPB had an extremely public example of its effectiveness just last year, when it hit Wells Fargo for creating millions of financial accounts for customers without permission. This was the biggest case the bureau has been involved with, so it was the first time a lot of casually-news-aware Americans noticed it: about as clear-cut a case of big banks screwing over the little people as you could want, and the CFPB came out as the hero. This should be the easiest political narrative in the world: the GOP wants to destroy the agency that keeps you safe from financial predators. Hits right at the middle-class, the heroes and villains are obvious, and if the Democrats can't make this case then I don't even know.
posted by skymt at 12:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [64 favorites]
"The microwave is not a sound way of surveilling someone."
OK, thanks.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:09 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
OK, thanks.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:09 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
We don't need to harness actuarial science; low-information voters don't give a shit about actuarial science, nor should they.
I disagree. There's a huge number of people, most of whom vote GOP, who shake their heads sadly any time a spending opportunity comes up that they don't understand, meanwhile saying some varient of "But the budget! We can't afford it!" (or, related, "What about liability?") because they think it makes them sound smart and wise and fiscally responsible. We need to give these people an alternative number-based narrative that also makes them sound smart and wise and fiscally responsible.
posted by carmicha at 12:09 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I disagree. There's a huge number of people, most of whom vote GOP, who shake their heads sadly any time a spending opportunity comes up that they don't understand, meanwhile saying some varient of "But the budget! We can't afford it!" (or, related, "What about liability?") because they think it makes them sound smart and wise and fiscally responsible. We need to give these people an alternative number-based narrative that also makes them sound smart and wise and fiscally responsible.
posted by carmicha at 12:09 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
"The microwave is not a sound way of surveilling someone."
I'm going to need a [real] or [fake] tag for this one.
posted by cooker girl at 12:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm going to need a [real] or [fake] tag for this one.
posted by cooker girl at 12:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
how long until spicer's response to every question is just "Top. Men."
posted by murphy slaw at 12:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 12:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Corb: I don't like single payer, but yes, I would have vastly preferred if the ACA were funded through a simple tax increase rather than mandating people buy health insurance or face a penalty. I know it may seem weird to some, but this kind of stuff actually matters to me.
I appreciate that. Taking you up on your suggestion of getting back to first principles, IMHO it all boils down to one question:
Is medical care a market good, or not?
If one thinks medical care should be a market good, then people who can't afford treatment should be left to die. Period. Anything else screws up the market incentives. The young people who think they don't need health insurance would change their mind very quickly after the first couple quadriplegic snowboard accident victims are left to freeze to death on a ski slope, because the ambulance alone exceeded their credit card limit.
I don't think most people are willing to accept the harsh consequences that such logic entails, though. Paul Ryan actually does, if you fuzz up the darker results with a little rhetoric, and that is scary.
posted by msalt at 12:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
I appreciate that. Taking you up on your suggestion of getting back to first principles, IMHO it all boils down to one question:
Is medical care a market good, or not?
If one thinks medical care should be a market good, then people who can't afford treatment should be left to die. Period. Anything else screws up the market incentives. The young people who think they don't need health insurance would change their mind very quickly after the first couple quadriplegic snowboard accident victims are left to freeze to death on a ski slope, because the ambulance alone exceeded their credit card limit.
I don't think most people are willing to accept the harsh consequences that such logic entails, though. Paul Ryan actually does, if you fuzz up the darker results with a little rhetoric, and that is scary.
posted by msalt at 12:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
it's not a SOUND way it's an ELECTROMAGNETIC RADIATION way wake up sheeple
posted by murphy slaw at 12:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 12:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
That might the thing that finally broke my brain.
posted by cooker girl at 12:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 12:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
There's a huge number of people, most of whom vote GOP, who shake their heads sadly any time a spending opportunity comes up
Yeah, I remember how after Obama's election Mitch McConnell and John Boehner would shake their heads sadly and intone "we're broke." In the richest nation in the world. After George W. Bush passed his tax cuts.
posted by Gelatin at 12:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah, I remember how after Obama's election Mitch McConnell and John Boehner would shake their heads sadly and intone "we're broke." In the richest nation in the world. After George W. Bush passed his tax cuts.
posted by Gelatin at 12:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
mumimor: "Trump would introduce single payer if he could be bothered to figure out how government works. It is totally consistent with his thinking (insomuch as there is a line or a thought there). But, he can't be bothered to figure out how government works. So there's that."
I think this bears expanding on, because it's one of the things that people get confused about with Trump. When Trump "supports" single-payer, he is having an emotional reaction. He knows, because he isn't a lizard-person, that people shouldn't be dying in the streets because they can't see a doctor.
But Trump is so monumentally stupid that he can't even understand the tradeoffs involved or how you can graft your way into this terrible situation. That's how awful a businessman he is--he can't figure out why people don't have good healthcare, because he can't figure out how to con some money out of the most easily conned business in the history of time.
In any case, Trump is fundamentally a good person in the sense that your racist uncle is--he agrees that morality exists and that it'd be best if everyone was good and happy... but we all know that that can't happen, so I've got to get mine while the getting is good. Which is to say, only good insofar as it doesn't impede his desires in the least. And you should understand Trump's support of single-payer in the same way that you'd understand your racist uncle's support of women's basketball or latino youth centers. Those things are lovely right up until he can't find parking at the Wal-Mart, and then they're enemies of America.
posted by TypographicalError at 12:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
I think this bears expanding on, because it's one of the things that people get confused about with Trump. When Trump "supports" single-payer, he is having an emotional reaction. He knows, because he isn't a lizard-person, that people shouldn't be dying in the streets because they can't see a doctor.
But Trump is so monumentally stupid that he can't even understand the tradeoffs involved or how you can graft your way into this terrible situation. That's how awful a businessman he is--he can't figure out why people don't have good healthcare, because he can't figure out how to con some money out of the most easily conned business in the history of time.
In any case, Trump is fundamentally a good person in the sense that your racist uncle is--he agrees that morality exists and that it'd be best if everyone was good and happy... but we all know that that can't happen, so I've got to get mine while the getting is good. Which is to say, only good insofar as it doesn't impede his desires in the least. And you should understand Trump's support of single-payer in the same way that you'd understand your racist uncle's support of women's basketball or latino youth centers. Those things are lovely right up until he can't find parking at the Wal-Mart, and then they're enemies of America.
posted by TypographicalError at 12:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
What he said was "That's not how Soundwave surveils someone," which is true, he uses those little cassette dudes.
posted by emjaybee at 12:13 PM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 12:13 PM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
> how long until spicer's response to every question is just "Top. Men."
Are we to understand "top" here as an adjective or a verb?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:13 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Are we to understand "top" here as an adjective or a verb?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:13 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
@JessicaHuseman:
Spicer keeps saying this healthcare bill is only part one of three of the total plan. But remember last week when he put the stacks of paper next to each other, and compared just this little part to the whole of Obamacare?
"LOOK HOW SIMPLE OUR BILL IS!" has become "But it's much more complicated than that guys."
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [61 favorites]
Spicer keeps saying this healthcare bill is only part one of three of the total plan. But remember last week when he put the stacks of paper next to each other, and compared just this little part to the whole of Obamacare?
"LOOK HOW SIMPLE OUR BILL IS!" has become "But it's much more complicated than that guys."
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [61 favorites]
Are we to understand "top" here as an adjective or a verb?
As a noun.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
As a noun.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
In any case, Trump is fundamentally a good person in the sense that your racist uncle is--
I thought the big takeaway from the last year or so was that hey, maybe they actually aren't.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
I thought the big takeaway from the last year or so was that hey, maybe they actually aren't.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
I think maybe that was the joke you were going for though? Sorry
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
In any case, Trump is fundamentally a good person in the sense that your racist uncle is--he agrees that morality exists and that it'd be best if everyone was good and happy... but we all know that that can't happen, so I've got to get mine while the getting is good.
You need to show your work here, because I think all available evidence contradicts that premise.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
You need to show your work here, because I think all available evidence contradicts that premise.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Remarkably, while Spicer pointed out that microwaves are not effective surveillance tools, he stepped around denying that Trump believes that he was spied on through microwaves and televisions. Presumably either Trump actually thinks he was spied on through household appliances or Spicer is hedging because he thinks that Trump might think that.
posted by vathek at 12:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by vathek at 12:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
if this reaction from the crowd in a deep-red area re: a coal miner expressing support for universal coverage doesn't get the dems to go all-in for single payer...
Just to be clear even Bernie Saunders is kind of failing here. He starts out by saying "every worker" then he points out other countries provide healthcare to 'every person' and then the coal miner says "every American citizen'.
Those are three different groups. Every person is the superset. Every worker is a subset and every citizen is a subset. You can be a worker in America and not be a citizen (there are about 13 million of these who are documented and another 30 million or so undocumented). There are probably a couple of dozen millions of unemployed, disabled people, retired people or kids in school who are not workers.
You have to be very careful about the casual conversation exclusions when talking about who deserves what. There will be people at the table that you will exclude or allow to be excluded by others who will recognize that they are candidates for being thrown under a policy bus.
posted by srboisvert at 12:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
Just to be clear even Bernie Saunders is kind of failing here. He starts out by saying "every worker" then he points out other countries provide healthcare to 'every person' and then the coal miner says "every American citizen'.
Those are three different groups. Every person is the superset. Every worker is a subset and every citizen is a subset. You can be a worker in America and not be a citizen (there are about 13 million of these who are documented and another 30 million or so undocumented). There are probably a couple of dozen millions of unemployed, disabled people, retired people or kids in school who are not workers.
You have to be very careful about the casual conversation exclusions when talking about who deserves what. There will be people at the table that you will exclude or allow to be excluded by others who will recognize that they are candidates for being thrown under a policy bus.
posted by srboisvert at 12:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
Yeah, I remember how after Obama's election Mitch McConnell and John Boehner would shake their heads sadly and intone "we're broke." In the richest nation in the world. After George W. Bush passed his tax cuts.
And launched two trillion-dollar wars, while cutting those taxes.
posted by darkstar at 12:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
And launched two trillion-dollar wars, while cutting those taxes.
posted by darkstar at 12:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Spicer keeps saying this healthcare bill is only part one of three of the total plan. But remember last week when he put the stacks of paper next to each other, and compared just this little part to the whole of Obamacare?
I also love this idea that a bill that amends another bill by adding more provisions is somehow "less" government than the original bill. It's like I told my law school lenders "Thiiiiis [gestures to mountain of undergrad debt] is excessive debt; thiiiiis [gestures to smaller pile of debt covering one semester] is not."
posted by melissasaurus at 12:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
I also love this idea that a bill that amends another bill by adding more provisions is somehow "less" government than the original bill. It's like I told my law school lenders "Thiiiiis [gestures to mountain of undergrad debt] is excessive debt; thiiiiis [gestures to smaller pile of debt covering one semester] is not."
posted by melissasaurus at 12:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
And launched two trillion-dollar wars, while cutting those taxes.
That's the thing; with the GOP, winning the race to say that a policy, program or perspective is the best vis-a-vis fighting terrorism means being able to spend $Sky'sTheLimit. This is why I think I have made some headway framing global warming, especially sea level rise, as a threat to military readiness both in terms of protecting coastal bases and fomenting strife in areas that will experience food/water shortages, catastrophic weather events, etc.
posted by carmicha at 12:25 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's the thing; with the GOP, winning the race to say that a policy, program or perspective is the best vis-a-vis fighting terrorism means being able to spend $Sky'sTheLimit. This is why I think I have made some headway framing global warming, especially sea level rise, as a threat to military readiness both in terms of protecting coastal bases and fomenting strife in areas that will experience food/water shortages, catastrophic weather events, etc.
posted by carmicha at 12:25 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
And anyway, how can Spicey wave off the CBO projections that 24M people will lose coverage when the leaked White House estimate projects that 26M people will lose coverage?
posted by darkstar at 12:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 12:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Same way Spicey waves off everything else.
You gonna believe what he tells you to believe or are you going to believe that nonsense you read with your own eyes?
posted by INFJ at 12:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
You gonna believe what he tells you to believe or are you going to believe that nonsense you read with your own eyes?
posted by INFJ at 12:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Des Moines Register - Editorial: GOP needs to oppose King's re-election, not just King's words
If King’s world view truly doesn’t match that of the Republican Party, then party leaders at both the state and national level need to stand together in supporting an opposing candidate in the 2018 Republican primary. Given King’s longstanding record as one of the least effective members of Congress, the GOP should have no difficulty finding a more thoughtful and qualified individual to represent the people of Iowa’s 4th District.posted by Room 641-A at 12:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [56 favorites]
The only question is whether these party leaders have the courage of their alleged convictions.
Actually, I think Trump would like single payer healthcare because he is the type of employer it would hugely benefit. The employers who gain from employer-provided healthcare are those who depend on highly skilled workers with many opportunities. A good insurance can keep employees from moving on when they get more interesting offers (as seen from countless asks). Unskilled, low-payed hospitality staff are not worth wasting healthcare on, and it is a bother that you can't have them in full-time/over-time jobs if you don't.
This is how welfare works in many European countries, with Germany as the worst example - when the employers don't have social responsibilities, they can drive the workers to the bottom, relying on the state to pick them up.
Don't misunderstand me, I prefer the very different European systems to the US system, but there is an other side to them which Trump must have learnt from his international ventures.
posted by mumimor at 12:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is how welfare works in many European countries, with Germany as the worst example - when the employers don't have social responsibilities, they can drive the workers to the bottom, relying on the state to pick them up.
Don't misunderstand me, I prefer the very different European systems to the US system, but there is an other side to them which Trump must have learnt from his international ventures.
posted by mumimor at 12:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
which Trump must have learnt
I see the flaw in your plan.
posted by Etrigan at 12:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
I see the flaw in your plan.
posted by Etrigan at 12:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
And anyway, how can Spicey wave off the CBO projections that 24M people will lose coverage when the leaked White House estimate projects that 26M people will lose coverage?
They attempted to spin the leaked White House estimate as essentially "not what we think will happen, but what we think the CBO will say, using their methodology." Nobody really believes them.
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
They attempted to spin the leaked White House estimate as essentially "not what we think will happen, but what we think the CBO will say, using their methodology." Nobody really believes them.
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
Guys, I am suffering from incompetence fatigue and in my fever dreams I see President HRC getting shit done. Sob.
posted by lydhre at 12:45 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 12:45 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
if it's any consolation, in the universe where HRC won the house GOP has already started impeachment proceedings over Her Emails and it's a real drag
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [52 favorites]
Actually, I think Trump would like single payer healthcare because he is the type of employer it would hugely benefit.
Honestly, I see no evidence to suggest that Trump has any opinions at all on health care. I suspect that if Steve and Jared told him one morning that "everyone was saying" that single-payer was the thing, then he be all over it. And if Ivanka dropped by later on that afternoon and told him that single-payer was the worst, then he'd want to talk to Steve and Jared again.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Honestly, I see no evidence to suggest that Trump has any opinions at all on health care. I suspect that if Steve and Jared told him one morning that "everyone was saying" that single-payer was the thing, then he be all over it. And if Ivanka dropped by later on that afternoon and told him that single-payer was the worst, then he'd want to talk to Steve and Jared again.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump is fundamentally a good person in the sense that your racist uncle is--he agrees that morality exists and that it'd be best if everyone was good and happy
lol no
posted by dis_integration at 12:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
lol no
posted by dis_integration at 12:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
Monica Crowley Lost White House Job, Now She’s Got One With Pro-Russian Oligarch
Monica Crowley told the Justice Department's National Security Division that she will represent billionaire Victor Pinchuk in discussions with U.S. government officials “and other policy makers” regarding “issues of concern to Mr. Pinchuk.” [...]posted by melissasaurus at 12:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
In 2015, the Pinchuk Foundation paid the Trump Foundation $150,000 in exchange for a video appearance by Trump at Pinchuk’s annual Yalta European Strategy meeting. A former official in the IRS’s Exempt Organizations unit told The Daily Beast at the time that the payment raised questions about whether Trump was evading taxes by routing income through his foundation.
Trump summoned D.C. mayor to Oval Office for storm that brought 2.5 inches of snow: Presidents have over the years invited D.C. mayors to ceremonial and political events, but no one could recall a D.C. mayor being summoned to the Oval Office to brief the president — not for Nor’easters that paralyzed the city; not when a 2011 earthquake damaged city landmarks; not even after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's worth pointing out that for all of Spicer's talk about how having coverage doesn't mean access to care because deductibles are too high, the CBO said the AHCA will cause higher deductibles.
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
He starts out by saying "every worker" then he points out other countries provide healthcare to 'every person' and then the coal miner says "every American citizen'.
it's an opening for the dems. we've spent years compromising before we even start to negotiate, and there honestly is not going to be a better time to push for single payer. as evidenced by many, many recent townhalls and the like, people are NOT stoked on the GOP replacement and actually wish the ACA went further. the dems could get a lot of non-voters excited by pushing for single payer and if they don't take this opportunity...i just don't know. i wouldn't be surprised, but it's very disheartening to think about
posted by burgerrr at 12:52 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
it's an opening for the dems. we've spent years compromising before we even start to negotiate, and there honestly is not going to be a better time to push for single payer. as evidenced by many, many recent townhalls and the like, people are NOT stoked on the GOP replacement and actually wish the ACA went further. the dems could get a lot of non-voters excited by pushing for single payer and if they don't take this opportunity...i just don't know. i wouldn't be surprised, but it's very disheartening to think about
posted by burgerrr at 12:52 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
In 2015, the Pinchuk Foundation paid the Trump Foundation $150,000 in exchange for a video appearance by Trump at Pinchuk’s annual Yalta European Strategy meeting.Well, if you're going to make a bad decision, that's probably the place to do it.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:54 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Des Moines Register - Editorial
Per jason_steakums' tip, the daily newspaper of the biggest city in Steve Racist King's district still appears to have no opinion on him.
posted by holgate at 12:56 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Per jason_steakums' tip, the daily newspaper of the biggest city in Steve Racist King's district still appears to have no opinion on him.
posted by holgate at 12:56 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
> Monica Crowley Lost White House Job, Now She’s Got One With Pro-Russian Oligarch
"Wingnut fails upward" is sort of a "dog bites man" story these days, innit?
posted by tonycpsu at 12:56 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
"Wingnut fails upward" is sort of a "dog bites man" story these days, innit?
posted by tonycpsu at 12:56 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
He knows, because he isn't a lizard-person, that people shouldn't be dying in the streets because they can't see a doctor.
you could be right because in theory anybody could be right about anything and only Professor Xavier knows for sure what's in our secret brain parts, but this is like "Obama is wiretapping my toaster oven" level of completely made up no evidence and only possibly true in the strictest sense of definitely not being true
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:58 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
you could be right because in theory anybody could be right about anything and only Professor Xavier knows for sure what's in our secret brain parts, but this is like "Obama is wiretapping my toaster oven" level of completely made up no evidence and only possibly true in the strictest sense of definitely not being true
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:58 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump summoned D.C. mayor to Oval Office for storm that brought 2.5 inches of snow
Micromeddling.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump summoned D.C. mayor to Oval Office for storm that brought 2.5 inches of snow
what a big orange weenie - what's he going to do in a REAL crisis?
posted by pyramid termite at 1:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
what a big orange weenie - what's he going to do in a REAL crisis?
posted by pyramid termite at 1:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
I kinda wish they'd just replace Spicer with Steve King. He could just come out and say "Look, we're making sure the right People are getting health care, okay? The one's who will support and maintain Western Civilization in the right Way."
posted by valkane at 1:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by valkane at 1:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Am I the only one thinking 45 thinks the DC mayor has magical weather powers and therefore should have prevented all this?
would I be surprised if he Tweeted that?
am I thinking "maybe day-drinking is a viable option"?
posted by emjaybee at 1:02 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
would I be surprised if he Tweeted that?
am I thinking "maybe day-drinking is a viable option"?
posted by emjaybee at 1:02 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
He's probably worried that the snow will prevent him from going to Mar A Lago this weekend.
Priorities, people.
posted by cooker girl at 1:07 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
Priorities, people.
posted by cooker girl at 1:07 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump summoned D.C. mayor to Oval Office for storm that brought 2.5 inches of snow
what a big orange weenie - what's he going to do in a REAL crisis?
He's concerned he'll miss his Saturday tee-off if the roads to Andrews aren't clear.
posted by dis_integration at 1:07 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
what a big orange weenie - what's he going to do in a REAL crisis?
He's concerned he'll miss his Saturday tee-off if the roads to Andrews aren't clear.
posted by dis_integration at 1:07 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Good news, everyone!*
CBO projects TrumpCare will save Social Security $3 billion!
Take a guess why that is...
*Spoken in Professor Farnsworth's voice
posted by darkstar at 1:08 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
CBO projects TrumpCare will save Social Security $3 billion!
Take a guess why that is...
*Spoken in Professor Farnsworth's voice
posted by darkstar at 1:08 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
Secretive American conservatives are helping bankroll Geert Wilders' Dutch election campaign
posted by futz at 1:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by futz at 1:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump summoned D.C. mayor to Oval Office for storm that brought 2.5 inches of snow
The request for the presidential briefing was made about 4 p.m., aides said, and seemed hastily arranged. The invitation came about 45 minutes after Politico posted an article on its website with the headline: “Will Trump bungle first big snow threat like Obama did?” (Emphasis mine.)posted by Room 641-A at 1:13 PM on March 14, 2017 [39 favorites]
In any case, Trump is fundamentally a good person in the sense that your racist uncle is--he agrees that morality exists and that it'd be best if everyone was good and happy... but we all know that that can't happen, so I've got to get mine while the getting is good.
Trump is not a good person, he does not agree that morality exists, he is a malignant narcissist which is a form of sociopath, a person without a conscience. He's a career conman who makes money from ripping people off. He's not simply uninformed, he's incapable of feeling empathy for anyone. He will say things that sound sympathetic but there's no true emotion behind them. Even in his own family his attempts at mimicking love come across as skeevy & incestuous.
posted by scalefree at 1:13 PM on March 14, 2017 [56 favorites]
Trump is not a good person, he does not agree that morality exists, he is a malignant narcissist which is a form of sociopath, a person without a conscience. He's a career conman who makes money from ripping people off. He's not simply uninformed, he's incapable of feeling empathy for anyone. He will say things that sound sympathetic but there's no true emotion behind them. Even in his own family his attempts at mimicking love come across as skeevy & incestuous.
posted by scalefree at 1:13 PM on March 14, 2017 [56 favorites]
Trump is fundamentally a good person in the sense that your racist uncle is
In that he is not, is not willing to learn how to be, and is incapable of hearing any information that might indicate otherwise. But like, really loves his dog or something.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
In that he is not, is not willing to learn how to be, and is incapable of hearing any information that might indicate otherwise. But like, really loves his dog or something.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Per jason_steakums' tip, the daily newspaper of the biggest city in Steve Racist King's district still appears to have no opinion on him.
There's this incredibly frustrating news culture of "don't rock the boat" here (with the exception of some brief glimmers of hope, once when I worked in local news here under a great news director, we caught King in some nonsense that ended up on Colbert). Partially it's because the news outlets are understaffed and overworked, partially it's the political views of some news outlets' ownership and management, partially it's because of calls from upset rural readers/viewers when anything pisses them off, but largely it's the assumption that the reaction will be worse than it is in reality, working off of an outdated assumption of what rocks the boat and upsets people. We were "the home office in Sioux City, Iowa" on Letterman because KMEG thought Star Trek reruns were more palatable to their viewers than Letterman - out of touch then and now.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's this incredibly frustrating news culture of "don't rock the boat" here (with the exception of some brief glimmers of hope, once when I worked in local news here under a great news director, we caught King in some nonsense that ended up on Colbert). Partially it's because the news outlets are understaffed and overworked, partially it's the political views of some news outlets' ownership and management, partially it's because of calls from upset rural readers/viewers when anything pisses them off, but largely it's the assumption that the reaction will be worse than it is in reality, working off of an outdated assumption of what rocks the boat and upsets people. We were "the home office in Sioux City, Iowa" on Letterman because KMEG thought Star Trek reruns were more palatable to their viewers than Letterman - out of touch then and now.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have this idea rolling around in my head for a project to reclaim the word "Americans."
You should take a look a look at Define American project.
This is a project started by Jose Antonio Vargas, who is journalist that found out as an adult that he is undocumented, and wrote about it last year in the New York Times magazine.
posted by mach at 1:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
You should take a look a look at Define American project.
This is a project started by Jose Antonio Vargas, who is journalist that found out as an adult that he is undocumented, and wrote about it last year in the New York Times magazine.
posted by mach at 1:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
also your racist uncle might not be as good a person as you think he is.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [34 favorites]
Trump summoned D.C. mayor to Oval Office for storm that brought 2.5 inches of snow
I, for one, didn't have to go in to work today, but the roads were well-plowed. Historically the city has kinda sucked at snow.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I, for one, didn't have to go in to work today, but the roads were well-plowed. Historically the city has kinda sucked at snow.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
*Spoken in Professor Farnsworth's voice
(Speaking of which, whenever I see Bannon, I mumble to myself "Not only do you not deserve a Nobel Prize for loosing this bloated man-ball on the world but you are hereby kicked out of the Academy of Science!")
posted by octobersurprise at 1:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
(Speaking of which, whenever I see Bannon, I mumble to myself "Not only do you not deserve a Nobel Prize for loosing this bloated man-ball on the world but you are hereby kicked out of the Academy of Science!")
posted by octobersurprise at 1:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
But like, really loves his dog or something.
Trump is the first president in modern history without any pets in the White House, because he is a miserable shell of a person incapable of even feigning affection for another living being
posted by theodolite at 1:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [70 favorites]
Trump is the first president in modern history without any pets in the White House, because he is a miserable shell of a person incapable of even feigning affection for another living being
posted by theodolite at 1:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [70 favorites]
Just out of curiosity, what would happen if the D.C. mayor told Trump to fuck himself?
I'm just lookin' for a hero, man.
posted by angrycat at 1:25 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm just lookin' for a hero, man.
posted by angrycat at 1:25 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
CBO projects TrumpCare will save Social Security $3 billion!
Because of all the poor people who couldn't afford insurance will die & not need their benefits anymore.
posted by scalefree at 1:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Because of all the poor people who couldn't afford insurance will die & not need their benefits anymore.
posted by scalefree at 1:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Bowser has shown a lot of spine, despite her corporatist leanings, and with the constant assault on our autonomy from dickbags like Chaffetz it wouldn't shock me in the slightest if she told The Trump to fuck himself.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 1:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
(Trump hates dogs.)
Seriously, why don't they just do singlepayer for only American citizens and only "not-your-fault" straightup accidents and diseases? If you have sex and want birth control, that's your fault, you pay for it out of pocket. If you have sex and get pregnant, that's your fault, you pay out of pocket to gestate and have the kid or you pay for a plane ticket and fly to California or some other godless place to abort the fetus. If you're not a citizen and you get sick or fall under a train, it's not our problem, go back to your country and get treatment. Lifestyle disease? We told you to "just say no." DJT just said no; he has never inhaled the smoke from burning intoxicants or touched a single drop of alcohol and he is right there in front of you acting as a healthful object lesson. You ignored the lesson? Your choices are your fault; you pay. Heart attack? Well, we'll look at it. Maybe you have the kind of heart attack that comes from constant stalwart striving in the pitiless saltmines of Wall Street, in which case, thank you, soldier. But probably you should have jogged more, in which case, your heart disease is your fault. Mental illness? Sure thing, that's covered in that we pay for the PSAs touting the first lady's cure of plenty of fresh air in proximity to plants. Don't take the fresh air and sniff the flowers and become cured? Oops, sorry, you seem to have the kind of mental illness that is your fault. Do you have the black lung? Evidence of MAGA success; you clearly have a job! And this is how you repay your employer? By nearly inaudible but highly disturbing constant wailing for O2? Here is a two-foot stack of forms to go home and fill out and a MAGA hat to wear while you do it; come back when you're done and then we'll take half a year to review your case, oh, you died waiting? We love our miners.
They would pay for flu shots and Viagra and cough medicine and keep plague and suchlike bad-optics public-health catastrophes from sweeping the land, thus protecting their vile soft underbellies from attack by whatever remains of the left wing and garnering acclaim among previously uninsured renouncers of Obamacare who will be brought to amazed tears the first time they go to their brand new primary care doctor and get antibiotics for strep throat instead of waiting sixteen hours in the E.R.
posted by Don Pepino at 1:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Seriously, why don't they just do singlepayer for only American citizens and only "not-your-fault" straightup accidents and diseases? If you have sex and want birth control, that's your fault, you pay for it out of pocket. If you have sex and get pregnant, that's your fault, you pay out of pocket to gestate and have the kid or you pay for a plane ticket and fly to California or some other godless place to abort the fetus. If you're not a citizen and you get sick or fall under a train, it's not our problem, go back to your country and get treatment. Lifestyle disease? We told you to "just say no." DJT just said no; he has never inhaled the smoke from burning intoxicants or touched a single drop of alcohol and he is right there in front of you acting as a healthful object lesson. You ignored the lesson? Your choices are your fault; you pay. Heart attack? Well, we'll look at it. Maybe you have the kind of heart attack that comes from constant stalwart striving in the pitiless saltmines of Wall Street, in which case, thank you, soldier. But probably you should have jogged more, in which case, your heart disease is your fault. Mental illness? Sure thing, that's covered in that we pay for the PSAs touting the first lady's cure of plenty of fresh air in proximity to plants. Don't take the fresh air and sniff the flowers and become cured? Oops, sorry, you seem to have the kind of mental illness that is your fault. Do you have the black lung? Evidence of MAGA success; you clearly have a job! And this is how you repay your employer? By nearly inaudible but highly disturbing constant wailing for O2? Here is a two-foot stack of forms to go home and fill out and a MAGA hat to wear while you do it; come back when you're done and then we'll take half a year to review your case, oh, you died waiting? We love our miners.
They would pay for flu shots and Viagra and cough medicine and keep plague and suchlike bad-optics public-health catastrophes from sweeping the land, thus protecting their vile soft underbellies from attack by whatever remains of the left wing and garnering acclaim among previously uninsured renouncers of Obamacare who will be brought to amazed tears the first time they go to their brand new primary care doctor and get antibiotics for strep throat instead of waiting sixteen hours in the E.R.
posted by Don Pepino at 1:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump is the first president in modern history without any pets in the White House, because he is a miserable shell of a person incapable of even feigning affection for another living being
Even the eagle they brought in for a photoshoot could sense something was off with him.
posted by scalefree at 1:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Even the eagle they brought in for a photoshoot could sense something was off with him.
posted by scalefree at 1:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Donald Trump and the Narrative of US National Security
Trump (backed by the Breitbart and Fox megaphones) may be able to persuade more Republicans to rally around his vision not only to support his policies on trade and immigration (which are closer to his point of view anyway) but Trump’s views on Russia as well. Trump may be able to cherrypick a few Gorkas and Millers from obscurity in the short-run, but in the longer-run, a Republican Party steeped in Bannonite ideology may produce bevies of them, many of whom will go on to leadership positions. What starts with Iowa Congressman Steve King now may be a deeper bench in years to come, particularly if Trump manages to win re-election. That’s what keeps me up at night.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump (backed by the Breitbart and Fox megaphones) may be able to persuade more Republicans to rally around his vision not only to support his policies on trade and immigration (which are closer to his point of view anyway) but Trump’s views on Russia as well. Trump may be able to cherrypick a few Gorkas and Millers from obscurity in the short-run, but in the longer-run, a Republican Party steeped in Bannonite ideology may produce bevies of them, many of whom will go on to leadership positions. What starts with Iowa Congressman Steve King now may be a deeper bench in years to come, particularly if Trump manages to win re-election. That’s what keeps me up at night.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I guess the "dog" in that analogy is just a big poorly-kerned gold sign with some d-bag's name on it.
There really needs to be a [sob] tag
posted by aspersioncast at 1:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
There really needs to be a [sob] tag
posted by aspersioncast at 1:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump is the first president in modern history without any pets in the White House
Hey now, he'll bring in Chris Christie soon enough.
posted by Justinian at 1:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
Hey now, he'll bring in Chris Christie soon enough.
posted by Justinian at 1:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
Trump is the first president in modern history without any pets in the White House,
To be fair, Steve Bannon's dog, Cerberus, doesn't really get along with other dogs.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:33 PM on March 14, 2017 [37 favorites]
To be fair, Steve Bannon's dog, Cerberus, doesn't really get along with other dogs.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:33 PM on March 14, 2017 [37 favorites]
also your racist uncle might not be as good a person as you think he is.
Yeah, my racist grandparents abandoned me on the side of the fucking road in their city after inviting me to stay with them. My parents won't stand up for me when I say I'm scared. My sister won't stand up for me when I say it hurts me to hear her Republican friend say that states' rights are more important than my wife being able to live with me. I can't even get a family member to acknowledge that I have a reason to be afraid or do a little legwork to verify the things I say on their own.
This whole--this whole year has been a process for me learning how little I matter to my own family members if I don't toe their party lines. It's been heartbreaking, finding out how little it helps to say "I'm so scared; will you help me?" and how little all those strong family bonds they all bang on about matter when I ask for support and understanding. It hurts to find that all that rhetoric about proud Irish immigrant ancestors and remembering where we came from means nothing next to the chance to hate on today's immigrants; to find all the rhetoric about my mattering means nothing if I speak out too loudly; to find that all the rhetoric about respect being central to humanity means nothing if I ask for some for myself.
Discovering the hypocrisy of the right, the number of people I lived all my life thinking of as really good people despite their politics, and finding out that the goodness was the veneer all along over the rotten shell is maybe the most heartbreaking thing about my life right now. I used to believe that honorable opposition existed, and I don't know if I can any more. I used to think--well, never mind.
I envy those of you who get to believe your family will catch you if you fall, I guess. I don't feel that way any more. And I don't even--what do I mourn? The spun-sugar lies that melted away the instant I tried to lean on them? The belief I used to have in my ability to matter for people? When do I even have time to mourn that now? The people I loved from birth abandoned me and told me it was my fault, and I'm still trying to survive.
posted by sciatrix at 1:35 PM on March 14, 2017 [141 favorites]
Yeah, my racist grandparents abandoned me on the side of the fucking road in their city after inviting me to stay with them. My parents won't stand up for me when I say I'm scared. My sister won't stand up for me when I say it hurts me to hear her Republican friend say that states' rights are more important than my wife being able to live with me. I can't even get a family member to acknowledge that I have a reason to be afraid or do a little legwork to verify the things I say on their own.
This whole--this whole year has been a process for me learning how little I matter to my own family members if I don't toe their party lines. It's been heartbreaking, finding out how little it helps to say "I'm so scared; will you help me?" and how little all those strong family bonds they all bang on about matter when I ask for support and understanding. It hurts to find that all that rhetoric about proud Irish immigrant ancestors and remembering where we came from means nothing next to the chance to hate on today's immigrants; to find all the rhetoric about my mattering means nothing if I speak out too loudly; to find that all the rhetoric about respect being central to humanity means nothing if I ask for some for myself.
Discovering the hypocrisy of the right, the number of people I lived all my life thinking of as really good people despite their politics, and finding out that the goodness was the veneer all along over the rotten shell is maybe the most heartbreaking thing about my life right now. I used to believe that honorable opposition existed, and I don't know if I can any more. I used to think--well, never mind.
I envy those of you who get to believe your family will catch you if you fall, I guess. I don't feel that way any more. And I don't even--what do I mourn? The spun-sugar lies that melted away the instant I tried to lean on them? The belief I used to have in my ability to matter for people? When do I even have time to mourn that now? The people I loved from birth abandoned me and told me it was my fault, and I'm still trying to survive.
posted by sciatrix at 1:35 PM on March 14, 2017 [141 favorites]
Official: Tax Mar-a-Lago owner to help pay for cost of Trump visits [Palm Beach Post]
Palm Beach County Commissioner Dave Kerner is exploring the idea of imposing a special tax assessment on President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago mansion as a means of recouping costs the county has incurred during the president’s frequent visits.posted by melissasaurus at 1:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [72 favorites]
Kerner has asked County Attorney Denise Nieman to research the idea of designating Mar-a-Lago a “municipal services benefit unit,” which could position the county to assess a special tax for any special benefit the county has provided or is providing to the property owner.
Yeah, Donald is not a good person. He says things like "everyone will have health care and it'll be the best health care!" because people cheer when he says it. That's it. That's the sum total of his fucks for health care.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
(((hugs to sciatrix)))
posted by emjaybee at 1:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [78 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 1:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [78 favorites]
The Venn diagram for "good people" and "brags to acquaintances about their proclivity for sexual assault" has zero intersection.
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:40 PM on March 14, 2017 [78 favorites]
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:40 PM on March 14, 2017 [78 favorites]
Not to leap onto a landmine or anything, but if I understood it correctly, the racist uncle/Trump analogy wasn't ever intended to state that Trump is a good person, only that he believes himself to be one. Taking part of that longer comment, stretching the (admittedly not awesome) analogy until it breaks, just so you can gain a bit of satisfaction making sure everyone understands just how hard Trump sucks is maybe not the best derail I've seen all day. I mean, sure, not a great metaphor there, but still.
Even accounting for analogies gone awry, I'm 100% sure we're one and all on-board the Trump Sucks Right Down to the Marrow Train.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Even accounting for analogies gone awry, I'm 100% sure we're one and all on-board the Trump Sucks Right Down to the Marrow Train.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
>what a big orange weenie - what's he going to do in a REAL crisis?
Blame someone else and talk about how great he is.
posted by Catblack at 1:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Blame someone else and talk about how great he is.
posted by Catblack at 1:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
This whole--this whole year has been a process for me learning how little I matter to my own family members if I don't toe their party lines.
Sciatrix, I am so sorry you are having to deal with this and are hurting. I know it is cold comfort for loss of family, but many people here care about you and find you an amazing and inspiring individual. I know I, personally, am always impressed with your bravery and strength in showing vulnerability. Please don't lose hope. You are one of the best of us.
posted by corb at 1:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [66 favorites]
Sciatrix, I am so sorry you are having to deal with this and are hurting. I know it is cold comfort for loss of family, but many people here care about you and find you an amazing and inspiring individual. I know I, personally, am always impressed with your bravery and strength in showing vulnerability. Please don't lose hope. You are one of the best of us.
posted by corb at 1:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [66 favorites]
Trump summoned D.C. mayor to Oval Office for storm that brought 2.5 inches of snow
what a big orange weenie - what's he going to do in a REAL crisis?
Stage a photo-op and take credit where none is deserved.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
what a big orange weenie - what's he going to do in a REAL crisis?
Stage a photo-op and take credit where none is deserved.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
what a big orange weenie - what's he going to do in a REAL crisis?
He says, "Me and my old school pals had some might high times 'round here
And what happened to you poor black folks, well it just ain't fair"
He took a look around, gave a little pep talk, said, "I'm with you" then he took a little walk
Tell me, how can a poor man stand such times and live?
posted by mikelieman at 1:53 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
He says, "Me and my old school pals had some might high times 'round here
And what happened to you poor black folks, well it just ain't fair"
He took a look around, gave a little pep talk, said, "I'm with you" then he took a little walk
Tell me, how can a poor man stand such times and live?
posted by mikelieman at 1:53 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not to leap onto a landmine or anything, but if I understood it correctly, the racist uncle/Trump analogy wasn't ever intended to state that Trump is a good person, only that he believes himself to be one
Oh yeah I got that, I assumed we were just rolling with it because analogies are fun. Sorry to add to the derail.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:57 PM on March 14, 2017
Oh yeah I got that, I assumed we were just rolling with it because analogies are fun. Sorry to add to the derail.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:57 PM on March 14, 2017
The people I loved from birth abandoned me and told me it was my fault, and I'm still trying to survive.
You didn't deserve to have your heart broken twice this year, sciatrix. I suppose none of us did, but the Potemkin family realization is a particularly cruel one, so. I'm so sorry, and I say that with depth of someone who's had the same realization. You will get through it, and I'm glad you have your partner by your side. You can always MeMail me. (That goes for anyone else in that boat, too.)
posted by schadenfrau at 2:01 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
You didn't deserve to have your heart broken twice this year, sciatrix. I suppose none of us did, but the Potemkin family realization is a particularly cruel one, so. I'm so sorry, and I say that with depth of someone who's had the same realization. You will get through it, and I'm glad you have your partner by your side. You can always MeMail me. (That goes for anyone else in that boat, too.)
posted by schadenfrau at 2:01 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
We were "the home office in Sioux City, Iowa" on Letterman because KMEG thought Star Trek reruns were more palatable to their viewers than Letterman.
Aside: I was always curious about that! I figured it was just another one of Dave's typically odd non-sequiturs. Neat to get the backstory, jason_steakums.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Aside: I was always curious about that! I figured it was just another one of Dave's typically odd non-sequiturs. Neat to get the backstory, jason_steakums.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is not an encouraging sign, from Prerequisite for Key White House Posts: Loyalty, Not Experience
Still, Mr. Greenblatt seemed at that point somewhat taken aback that Mr. Trump had identified him to the news agency as his principal adviser on Israel, telling reporters that Mr. Greenblatt was so passionate that “when he goes on vacation, he goes to Israel.”posted by zachlipton at 2:09 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
“I knew that he was relying on me for certain aspects of Israel, but I didn’t know I was his top adviser,” he said.
New Dykes to Watch Out For strip about not burning out from resisting.
posted by emjaybee at 2:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 2:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
Probably the only thing even in the neighborhood of "good" about Trump is that he reveals who people truly are. Sometimes slowly, sometimes all at once. But sooner or later, almost everyone will have to react (or fail to react) to Trump and in those reactions our underlying human natures are exposed.
posted by mhum at 2:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by mhum at 2:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
"The microwave is not a sound way of surveilling someone."
Good to know. I can stop putting my pants on when I get up for a glass of water from the kitchen in the middle of the night.
posted by JackFlash at 2:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Good to know. I can stop putting my pants on when I get up for a glass of water from the kitchen in the middle of the night.
posted by JackFlash at 2:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
He's like the Sorting Hat nobody asked for.
posted by emjaybee at 2:13 PM on March 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 2:13 PM on March 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
JackFlash, the toaster noticed.
posted by erisfree at 2:14 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by erisfree at 2:14 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Probably the only thing even in the neighborhood of "good" about Trump is that he reveals who people truly are. Sometimes slowly, sometimes all at once. But sooner or later, almost everyone will have to react (or fail to react) to Trump and in those reactions our underlying human natures are exposed.
oh man I thought all those supernatural beings sent down to earth to make us reveal our true natures through the way we react to them had their work all wrapped up by the end of the 70s
ATTN INTERPLANETARY WATCHERS: YOU FORGOT TO RECALL THIS ONE! THINGS WENT TOO FAR!
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:14 PM on March 14, 2017
oh man I thought all those supernatural beings sent down to earth to make us reveal our true natures through the way we react to them had their work all wrapped up by the end of the 70s
ATTN INTERPLANETARY WATCHERS: YOU FORGOT TO RECALL THIS ONE! THINGS WENT TOO FAR!
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:14 PM on March 14, 2017
(Trump hates dogs.)
I was almost willing to give him a chance until you said that. I can't abide a dog-hater.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
I was almost willing to give him a chance until you said that. I can't abide a dog-hater.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Monica Crowley Lost White House Job, Now She’s Got One With Pro-Russian Oligarch
They must be pretty confident that Congress has been completely neutered because they are being pretty damn naked about being Putin puppets. It was bad enough when the finance officials revolved into bank jobs and back but National Security to Eastern oligarchs is just all kinds of insane.
posted by srboisvert at 2:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
They must be pretty confident that Congress has been completely neutered because they are being pretty damn naked about being Putin puppets. It was bad enough when the finance officials revolved into bank jobs and back but National Security to Eastern oligarchs is just all kinds of insane.
posted by srboisvert at 2:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
JackFlash, the toaster noticed.
That's OK.
It's a brave little toaster.
A flying toaster.
It's one of us.
posted by Floydd at 2:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's OK.
It's a brave little toaster.
A flying toaster.
It's one of us.
posted by Floydd at 2:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
He probably hates music, too.
posted by valkane at 2:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by valkane at 2:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Still, Mr. Greenblatt seemed at that point somewhat taken aback that Mr. Trump had identified him to the news agency as his principal adviser on Israel, telling reporters that Mr. Greenblatt was so passionate that “when he goes on vacation, he goes to Israel.”
“I knew that he was relying on me for certain aspects of Israel, but I didn’t know I was his top adviser,” he said.
Area Man Surprised After Tipsily Discussing Last Holiday at Golf Club
posted by jaduncan at 2:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
“I knew that he was relying on me for certain aspects of Israel, but I didn’t know I was his top adviser,” he said.
Area Man Surprised After Tipsily Discussing Last Holiday at Golf Club
posted by jaduncan at 2:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
He's got a fantastic White House pet plan in the works, you're going to be very pleased. They've already got the sharks, they're just trying to figure out the cheapest way to waterproof the lasers.
posted by contraption at 2:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by contraption at 2:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
wasn't ever intended to state that Trump is a good person, only that he believes himself to be one
The distinction was clear, but I don't think it's wise to treat hopeful imaginings like that as known facts or even likely facts. Plenty of bad people do think they're good because this is a thing that matters to them for whatever reason. Trump has never behaved like such a person. he may get self-esteem from feeling big, feeling powerful, even feeling liked and accepted, but not from feeling moral. observation suggests that morality, like fine cuisine and tie clips, is just something completely out of his scope of reference and interest. he doesn't act like he has a wicked moral system he believes is right, or a hypocritical one, or a simplistic one he's self-righteous about, but like he has none at all.
I can see how this comes across as a pointless argument about nothing. and maybe it is. but it has been suggested that he is difficult to predict by those who expect some semblance of normal evil behavior and this does seem like part of why.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:22 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
The distinction was clear, but I don't think it's wise to treat hopeful imaginings like that as known facts or even likely facts. Plenty of bad people do think they're good because this is a thing that matters to them for whatever reason. Trump has never behaved like such a person. he may get self-esteem from feeling big, feeling powerful, even feeling liked and accepted, but not from feeling moral. observation suggests that morality, like fine cuisine and tie clips, is just something completely out of his scope of reference and interest. he doesn't act like he has a wicked moral system he believes is right, or a hypocritical one, or a simplistic one he's self-righteous about, but like he has none at all.
I can see how this comes across as a pointless argument about nothing. and maybe it is. but it has been suggested that he is difficult to predict by those who expect some semblance of normal evil behavior and this does seem like part of why.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:22 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
But not Gennifer Flowers! "Great gal, one of the best, really willing to help me out."
posted by valkane at 2:22 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by valkane at 2:22 PM on March 14, 2017
Were you all aware that the tape- and packing- and everything-supply company ULINE is owned and operated by a bunch of assholes (the Uihlein family) who not only are pro-Trump but are willing to post this kind of garbage on their company's web site?
posted by komara at 2:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by komara at 2:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [41 favorites]
The new Dykes to Watch Out For strip just nails my state of despair: we're holding steady at le pantalon confortable.
posted by lydhre at 2:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 2:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
this kind of garbage on their company's web site
my favorite thing in the world is so-called "patriots" who don't know how to correctly display the flag.
posted by entropicamericana at 2:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
my favorite thing in the world is so-called "patriots" who don't know how to correctly display the flag.
posted by entropicamericana at 2:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
I can barely keep up with things these days because this whole healthcare debate is so stressful to me as someone who is disabled and who's husband has an expensive chronic illness. He was a healthy 30 year old who was taken down by an autoimmune disorder and nearly died. He luckily had good employer insurance at the time that covered his hospital stay after a $500 deductible. Since then he had needed almost $1000 in medication a month to stay out of the hospital.
He didn't "need" insurance before he got sick but DAMN were we lucky he had it. Because before the ACA he wouldn't have even been able to get coverage once he did get sick.
What people really want is not to have to pay for anything (whether that's healthcare or food stamps or what) but still have people get help if they really really need it, like through charities. Explaining to people that only a fraction of people ever get helped by charities is really hard because people want to believe we as a society don't just let people suffer. So long as it's not from their pocket.
posted by threeturtles at 2:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
He didn't "need" insurance before he got sick but DAMN were we lucky he had it. Because before the ACA he wouldn't have even been able to get coverage once he did get sick.
What people really want is not to have to pay for anything (whether that's healthcare or food stamps or what) but still have people get help if they really really need it, like through charities. Explaining to people that only a fraction of people ever get helped by charities is really hard because people want to believe we as a society don't just let people suffer. So long as it's not from their pocket.
posted by threeturtles at 2:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
Trump is the first president in modern history without any pets in the White House
There was this minidrama a few months ago where one of Trump's socialite friends decided she was going to give him a goldendoodle named Patton and announced it to the press as a fait accompli. A few weeks later she withdrew her offer, claiming she had fallen in love with the dog and couldn't bear a parting. To judge by his press photos, Patton is a friendly, fluffy boy who will never comprehend the enormous bullet he dodged.
posted by Iridic at 2:35 PM on March 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
There was this minidrama a few months ago where one of Trump's socialite friends decided she was going to give him a goldendoodle named Patton and announced it to the press as a fait accompli. A few weeks later she withdrew her offer, claiming she had fallen in love with the dog and couldn't bear a parting. To judge by his press photos, Patton is a friendly, fluffy boy who will never comprehend the enormous bullet he dodged.
posted by Iridic at 2:35 PM on March 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
The fact is that many people don't want and don't insurance, especially not the kind mandated by ObamaCare. The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
So, anytime I see lines like this trotted out, I'd like to know: do you actually know anybody who has had to do without insurance? Do you know what their medical care looks like?
Up until the ACA, I never qualified for Medicaid, because in many states, pregnant women, children, and the disabled are given priority (as they should be), and single healthy adults are SOL. I am a relatively healthy woman without any chronic diseases, but my employment situation has always been tenuous, and insurance was almost never an available benefit even when I was employed. I am the ideal person who "won't use much health care", but amazingly, shit happens in life and rather than deal with life-ending medical debt, I've often chosen to "pull myself up by my bootstraps" and fixed things myself.
I have:
- Debrided and cleaned out an open wound when I had a motorcycle accident, picking through bits of my knee tissue with tweezers trying to decide whether various stringy bits were attached to me or part of the pants I was wearing.
- Gone to a chiropractor that advertised free initial x-rays to see if I'd broken my wrist (I had). I then treated it myself with a brace.
- Cut out a cyst on my leg with a pocket knife.
- Cut off a ripped off toenail with a pair of scissors.
- Used all kinds of home remedies I found on the internet to various degrees of success when dealing with common and easily treatable conditions like strep throat.
- Gone without an ADD diagnosis for most of my life because when you can't afford a doctor you sure as hell can't afford a psychiatrist, let alone medication.
There's more, but this is what life looks like without insurance for many of us. Waiting until you have no alternative but to go to the doctor, when you know without a doubt you can't just ride it out this time, and doing that waiting because you know that you can't afford thousands of dollars in medical bills for every little thing that comes along. You patch yourself up the best you can and hope for the best. And that works OK sometimes, except when it doesn't.
Now that I have medicaid, I got strep throat and saw a doctor to get some antibiotics. If I am wounded, I can go to an urgent care and get xrays and I don't have to play "does-this-look-infected-to-you" with my friends anymore. I got vaccinated for free, and sterilized so I can stop worrying about being forced to give birth someday by regressive slut-punishing bastards.
With the way things are going, all of that is going to go away for me, and many people I care about. I'd encourage anybody who feels like anyone "doesn't need insurance" to stop for a minute and actually think about what that means, because we don't live in a magical fairyland where only people who can afford it have health problems.
posted by Feyala at 2:35 PM on March 14, 2017 [99 favorites]
So, anytime I see lines like this trotted out, I'd like to know: do you actually know anybody who has had to do without insurance? Do you know what their medical care looks like?
Up until the ACA, I never qualified for Medicaid, because in many states, pregnant women, children, and the disabled are given priority (as they should be), and single healthy adults are SOL. I am a relatively healthy woman without any chronic diseases, but my employment situation has always been tenuous, and insurance was almost never an available benefit even when I was employed. I am the ideal person who "won't use much health care", but amazingly, shit happens in life and rather than deal with life-ending medical debt, I've often chosen to "pull myself up by my bootstraps" and fixed things myself.
I have:
- Debrided and cleaned out an open wound when I had a motorcycle accident, picking through bits of my knee tissue with tweezers trying to decide whether various stringy bits were attached to me or part of the pants I was wearing.
- Gone to a chiropractor that advertised free initial x-rays to see if I'd broken my wrist (I had). I then treated it myself with a brace.
- Cut out a cyst on my leg with a pocket knife.
- Cut off a ripped off toenail with a pair of scissors.
- Used all kinds of home remedies I found on the internet to various degrees of success when dealing with common and easily treatable conditions like strep throat.
- Gone without an ADD diagnosis for most of my life because when you can't afford a doctor you sure as hell can't afford a psychiatrist, let alone medication.
There's more, but this is what life looks like without insurance for many of us. Waiting until you have no alternative but to go to the doctor, when you know without a doubt you can't just ride it out this time, and doing that waiting because you know that you can't afford thousands of dollars in medical bills for every little thing that comes along. You patch yourself up the best you can and hope for the best. And that works OK sometimes, except when it doesn't.
Now that I have medicaid, I got strep throat and saw a doctor to get some antibiotics. If I am wounded, I can go to an urgent care and get xrays and I don't have to play "does-this-look-infected-to-you" with my friends anymore. I got vaccinated for free, and sterilized so I can stop worrying about being forced to give birth someday by regressive slut-punishing bastards.
With the way things are going, all of that is going to go away for me, and many people I care about. I'd encourage anybody who feels like anyone "doesn't need insurance" to stop for a minute and actually think about what that means, because we don't live in a magical fairyland where only people who can afford it have health problems.
posted by Feyala at 2:35 PM on March 14, 2017 [99 favorites]
Trump is the first president in modern history without any pets in the White House
A mental exercise for the reader:
In the absence of reporters and/or TV cameras, can you imagine the current US president doing any of the following things?
A mental exercise for the reader:
In the absence of reporters and/or TV cameras, can you imagine the current US president doing any of the following things?
- petting a dog
- smiling at a baby who's not related to him
- helping an elderly stranger to navigate stairs
- asking an employee about how she and her family spent their vacation
- listening while a young child tells a joke and then laughing like it's the funniest thing he's ever heard
- fetching his wife a cup of tea when she's feeling ill
@atul_gawande: Final point: Annual opioid overdose deaths now exceed the peak of deaths in the worst year of the HIV/AIDS epidemic.
posted by PenDevil at 2:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 2:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
are willing to post this kind of garbage on their company's web site
I'm amazed that half of her concern about California involves LUNCH BREAKS. The demon lunch break! O the horror!
posted by suelac at 2:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm amazed that half of her concern about California involves LUNCH BREAKS. The demon lunch break! O the horror!
posted by suelac at 2:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
The "they can ask for charity" thing blows my mind. Anyone who has ever been on the board of a church, even a big one, should realize that paying the medical bills of one uninsured church member with cancer would blow through your entire budget in less than a year, even with extra donations.
So that doesn't happen. The church will give you a little, and then they will maybe visit you and watch you slowly decline and give you a nice funeral. Because that's all they can do.
posted by emjaybee at 2:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
So that doesn't happen. The church will give you a little, and then they will maybe visit you and watch you slowly decline and give you a nice funeral. Because that's all they can do.
posted by emjaybee at 2:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
fetching his wife a cup of tea when she's feeling ill
That depends. Have you seen Crimson Peaks?
posted by corb at 2:40 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
That depends. Have you seen Crimson Peaks?
posted by corb at 2:40 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Anyone who has seen a US medical bill should be aware that for something unusually and unluckily interesting the congregation would have to sell a rural church to pay it.
posted by jaduncan at 2:40 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 2:40 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
•helping an elderly stranger to navigate stairs
Donald's the one who needs help with stairs, apparently
•asking an employee about how she and her family spent their vacation
well now scroll up and you'll see that this is exactly how he found his principal advisor on Israel
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Donald's the one who needs help with stairs, apparently
•asking an employee about how she and her family spent their vacation
well now scroll up and you'll see that this is exactly how he found his principal advisor on Israel
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
The fact is in order for ObamaCare to work - especially when pre-existing conditions are covered those who are healthy, those who won't use much health care need to pay into the system so others can pay less.
This is simply a way of saying that health insurance is, uh, insurance.
posted by Justinian at 2:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
This is simply a way of saying that health insurance is, uh, insurance.
posted by Justinian at 2:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
And I don't even--what do I mourn? The spun-sugar lies that melted away the instant I tried to lean on them? The belief I used to have in my ability to matter for people? When do I even have time to mourn that now? The people I loved from birth abandoned me and told me it was my fault, and I'm still trying to survive.
Hi sciatrix (and anyone else feeling this way), if I can keep a little bit of that belief in humanity alive -- you matter to this stranger. The things that your loved ones can't provide to you -- security, reassurance, goodwill -- I will work harder for to balance the scales. Your posts inspire me, even though I don't participate that much here.
posted by orbit-3 at 2:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [45 favorites]
Hi sciatrix (and anyone else feeling this way), if I can keep a little bit of that belief in humanity alive -- you matter to this stranger. The things that your loved ones can't provide to you -- security, reassurance, goodwill -- I will work harder for to balance the scales. Your posts inspire me, even though I don't participate that much here.
posted by orbit-3 at 2:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [45 favorites]
1. Let Ryan roll out a healthcare bill that everybody hates.
2. Watch the bill fail.
3. Blame Democrats for the bill failing.
4. Continue to blame every problem with the healthcare system on Democrats for the next 8 years.
5. Hammer this home until it becomes the accepted media narrative and framing for all healthcare system discussions.
6. Use this advantage to win two-thirds supermajorities in the House and the Senate, and full control of at least 38 states.
7. You see where this is going...
(Please please do not let these last three things happen!)
posted by SisterHavana at 2:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
2. Watch the bill fail.
3. Blame Democrats for the bill failing.
4. Continue to blame every problem with the healthcare system on Democrats for the next 8 years.
5. Hammer this home until it becomes the accepted media narrative and framing for all healthcare system discussions.
6. Use this advantage to win two-thirds supermajorities in the House and the Senate, and full control of at least 38 states.
7. You see where this is going...
(Please please do not let these last three things happen!)
posted by SisterHavana at 2:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Do you know what their medical care looks like?
Yup. I've dug out ingrown toenails, stitched up wounds, taken herbal remedies by the boatload, and once helped a friend set a broken finger in a parking lot. Life as a "healthy" young adult without insurance sucks. In the years after college, if we did anything physical like a softball game or any outdoor-type activity, at least one person could be heard on the sidelines shouting "Be careful, you don't have insurance!!"
I have friends who in their 40s are in chronic pain due to untreated injuries from their 20s. I personally recall I time when I actually had health insurance but the copay was so high I couldn't afford to go, but after two weeks of dizziness, fever, and general misery I borrowed the money from my folks to go to the doctor. Of course, I did have mono, but it was almost played out so there really wasn't anything they could do.
And let's not even get started on the number of friends and aquaintances I have who got married to get health insurance.
Yeah, it's a damn walk in the park to be "healthy", young and uninsured.
posted by teleri025 at 2:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
Yup. I've dug out ingrown toenails, stitched up wounds, taken herbal remedies by the boatload, and once helped a friend set a broken finger in a parking lot. Life as a "healthy" young adult without insurance sucks. In the years after college, if we did anything physical like a softball game or any outdoor-type activity, at least one person could be heard on the sidelines shouting "Be careful, you don't have insurance!!"
I have friends who in their 40s are in chronic pain due to untreated injuries from their 20s. I personally recall I time when I actually had health insurance but the copay was so high I couldn't afford to go, but after two weeks of dizziness, fever, and general misery I borrowed the money from my folks to go to the doctor. Of course, I did have mono, but it was almost played out so there really wasn't anything they could do.
And let's not even get started on the number of friends and aquaintances I have who got married to get health insurance.
Yeah, it's a damn walk in the park to be "healthy", young and uninsured.
posted by teleri025 at 2:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
JFC!!! That nyt article Prerequisite for Key White House Posts: Loyalty, Not Experience is data point #1000 that we are functioning (?) in a kakistocracy.
posted by lalochezia at 2:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 2:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
JFC!!! That nyt article Prerequisite for Key White House Posts: Loyalty, Not Experience is data point #1000 that we are functioning (?) in a kakistocracy.
We had that during Bush II as well, the whole pillaging of Iraq was driven by ignorant but loyal 20-somethings
posted by mumimor at 2:52 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
We had that during Bush II as well, the whole pillaging of Iraq was driven by ignorant but loyal 20-somethings
posted by mumimor at 2:52 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Trump is the first president in modern history without any pets in the White House"
Exclusive of Penthouse Pets?
posted by Chitownfats at 2:53 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wired asks the important questions: No, Microwave Ovens Cannot Spy on You—for Lots of Reasons
I'd also like a ruling from our judges on whether a microwave oven is a gadget. Judges? No I'm sorry, the judges say we can't accept that.
posted by zachlipton at 2:54 PM on March 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
But what if we were to take Conway not literally, but seriously? Asked whether a microwave could be turned into not a camera, specifically, but a listening device, Stephen Frasier, a microwave imaging and radar researcher at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, let out several seconds of sustained laughter.While we're on the subject of Conway's statements: Overlooked in all of this: KellyAnne Conway seems to think Inspector Gadget was an inspector of gadgets, not a gadget-filled inspector
I'd also like a ruling from our judges on whether a microwave oven is a gadget. Judges? No I'm sorry, the judges say we can't accept that.
posted by zachlipton at 2:54 PM on March 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
And now Jesse Watters of Fox News, best known for his ridiculously racist segment ambushing Asians on the street in New York, gets an interview with Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
No, Microwave Ovens Cannot Spy on You—for Lots of Reasons
But what if we were to take Conway not literally, but seriously? Asked whether a microwave could be turned into not a camera, specifically, but a listening device, Stephen Frasier, a microwave imaging and radar researcher at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, let out several seconds of sustained laughter.
I would bet hard cash money that CES had at least one smart microwave with a microphone and web connection. It's the Internet of Terribly configured nix boxes. So, uh, give it a year or two.
posted by jaduncan at 3:01 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
But what if we were to take Conway not literally, but seriously? Asked whether a microwave could be turned into not a camera, specifically, but a listening device, Stephen Frasier, a microwave imaging and radar researcher at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, let out several seconds of sustained laughter.
I would bet hard cash money that CES had at least one smart microwave with a microphone and web connection. It's the Internet of Terribly configured nix boxes. So, uh, give it a year or two.
posted by jaduncan at 3:01 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Prerequisite for Key White House Posts: Loyalty, Not Experience
Reince Priebus has never looked more like a beloved French comedian than in that Omarosa photo
posted by theodolite at 3:01 PM on March 14, 2017
Reince Priebus has never looked more like a beloved French comedian than in that Omarosa photo
posted by theodolite at 3:01 PM on March 14, 2017
So, anytime I see lines like this trotted out, I'd like to know: do you actually know anybody who has had to do without insurance? Do you know what their medical care looks like?
I had a roommate back in college whose parents ran a Thoroughbred farm, so she didn't have insurance through them. (There was also some sort of tax thing, as I recall, which meant she had had to try to flounder through the FAFSA as best she could without help from them, and which later wound up meaning she had to leave the university because she could no longer afford the tuition there.) She told me about having sewn up a cut wound on her foot herself with a bit of local anesthetic intended for the horses; about treating injuries and 'minor' ailments herself as well as she could so many times I've forgotten all the specifics.
I believed her, because when she had a bad toothache during our sophomore year it took me weeks to convince her to go to the health center to get it looked at it instead of flushing it desperately with salt water twice a day. And that was after having gotten university insurance through our pack of student fees.
posted by sciatrix at 3:02 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
I had a roommate back in college whose parents ran a Thoroughbred farm, so she didn't have insurance through them. (There was also some sort of tax thing, as I recall, which meant she had had to try to flounder through the FAFSA as best she could without help from them, and which later wound up meaning she had to leave the university because she could no longer afford the tuition there.) She told me about having sewn up a cut wound on her foot herself with a bit of local anesthetic intended for the horses; about treating injuries and 'minor' ailments herself as well as she could so many times I've forgotten all the specifics.
I believed her, because when she had a bad toothache during our sophomore year it took me weeks to convince her to go to the health center to get it looked at it instead of flushing it desperately with salt water twice a day. And that was after having gotten university insurance through our pack of student fees.
posted by sciatrix at 3:02 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Gallup's daily tracker has him at 39% approval, 55% disapproval. His second least popular day since taking office. If the last couple days' trend continues, tomorrow will be his least popular day ever.
We're so lucky they're this bad at fascism.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [32 favorites]
We're so lucky they're this bad at fascism.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [32 favorites]
Russia appears to deploy forces in Egypt, eyes on Libya role - sources
posted by futz at 3:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by futz at 3:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
it took me weeks to convince her to go to the health center to get it looked at it instead of flushing it desperately with salt water twice a day. And that was after having gotten university insurance through our pack of student fees.
There have been a few times that I've had insurance and didn't use it, not because it was cumbersome, but because once you start seeing the medical establishment as a trap meant to extort hidden fees and ruin your life, it doesn't even register as a viable option without some serious consideration.
Doctors are for Other People.
posted by Feyala at 3:08 PM on March 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
There have been a few times that I've had insurance and didn't use it, not because it was cumbersome, but because once you start seeing the medical establishment as a trap meant to extort hidden fees and ruin your life, it doesn't even register as a viable option without some serious consideration.
Doctors are for Other People.
posted by Feyala at 3:08 PM on March 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
The sick thing about all the workarounds people come up with to avoid going to the doctor is that many conservatives would applaud it as ingenuity and innovation. They like it when you sew up your own wounds.
I do. I am in the wilderness a lot and admire self-sufficiency. Doing it when I'm near an NHS hospital just seems idiotic.
posted by jaduncan at 3:09 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
I do. I am in the wilderness a lot and admire self-sufficiency. Doing it when I'm near an NHS hospital just seems idiotic.
posted by jaduncan at 3:09 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
They like it when you sew up your own wounds.
Pluck! Grit!* Good old-fashioned American sepsis!
*Real, actual, grit in your wounds
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
Pluck! Grit!* Good old-fashioned American sepsis!
*Real, actual, grit in your wounds
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
Russia appears to deploy forces in Egypt, eyes on Libya role - sources
Well, that was fast. I was giving until past April for Putin to push a little further, but I guess you strike while the iron is .. uh .. still assembling his administration.
posted by eclectist at 3:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well, that was fast. I was giving until past April for Putin to push a little further, but I guess you strike while the iron is .. uh .. still assembling his administration.
posted by eclectist at 3:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
The sick thing about all the workarounds people come up with to avoid going to the doctor is that many conservatives would applaud it as ingenuity and innovation. They like it when you sew up your own wounds.
One libertarian of my acquaintance insists that all the criticism of Mylan is misplaced because you can vote with your dollars by DIY-ing a solution. Like, you just explain to your kid's teachers that you have to train them on the 3D-printed syringe that you made from a CAD file you downloaded from the Internet. American resourcefulness in action!
posted by Ralston McTodd at 3:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
One libertarian of my acquaintance insists that all the criticism of Mylan is misplaced because you can vote with your dollars by DIY-ing a solution. Like, you just explain to your kid's teachers that you have to train them on the 3D-printed syringe that you made from a CAD file you downloaded from the Internet. American resourcefulness in action!
posted by Ralston McTodd at 3:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
They like it when you sew up your own wounds...
Pluck! Grit!* Good old-fashioned American sepsis!
Pull yourself up by your gurney straps!
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Pluck! Grit!* Good old-fashioned American sepsis!
Pull yourself up by your gurney straps!
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
She told me about having sewn up a cut wound on her foot herself with a bit of local anesthetic intended for the horses; about treating injuries and 'minor' ailments herself as well as she could so many times I've forgotten all the specifics.
Finagling vet medications for human use is A Thing in America, and it leads certain people to say "well, we need a totally free market in medicine like with vets", without considering how the costs of veterinary medicine are mostly curtailed because euthanasia is also A Thing for sick animals.
posted by holgate at 3:14 PM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
Finagling vet medications for human use is A Thing in America, and it leads certain people to say "well, we need a totally free market in medicine like with vets", without considering how the costs of veterinary medicine are mostly curtailed because euthanasia is also A Thing for sick animals.
posted by holgate at 3:14 PM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
One libertarian of my acquaintance insists that all the criticism of Mylan is misplaced because you can vote with your dollars by DIY-ing a solution. Like, you just explain to your kid's teachers that you have to train them on the 3D-printed syringe that you made from a CAD file you downloaded from the Internet. American resourcefulness in action!
Can any FDA approved plastics even be 3d printed yet?
posted by jaduncan at 3:18 PM on March 14, 2017
Can any FDA approved plastics even be 3d printed yet?
posted by jaduncan at 3:18 PM on March 14, 2017
Oh wow. I buy a ton of stuff from Uline. I had not realized that the family supports awful causes and people per Wikipedia so I got in touch with Customer Service. Next stop: spreading the word. Thank you, komara.
Hello-- Just a note to let you know that I will never buy anything from Uline ever again. Why? It's the despicable letter from company President Liz Uihlein. She's is entitled to her perspective, of course, but using her company as a platform to spread her opinions is an affront to decency and an insult to customers and employees who don't share her views.
Although I enjoy buying from other Wisconsin businesses and supporting job creation in our state, I do not wish my companies, which are privately held, to expend dollars to advance this perspective or benefit the Uihlein family. I'm also forwarding a link to Uihlein's letter far and wide to help other people make informed choices about whether to purchase goods from your company.
Please stop sending me your catalog immediately. Thank you.
posted by carmicha at 3:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [74 favorites]
Hello-- Just a note to let you know that I will never buy anything from Uline ever again. Why? It's the despicable letter from company President Liz Uihlein. She's is entitled to her perspective, of course, but using her company as a platform to spread her opinions is an affront to decency and an insult to customers and employees who don't share her views.
Although I enjoy buying from other Wisconsin businesses and supporting job creation in our state, I do not wish my companies, which are privately held, to expend dollars to advance this perspective or benefit the Uihlein family. I'm also forwarding a link to Uihlein's letter far and wide to help other people make informed choices about whether to purchase goods from your company.
Please stop sending me your catalog immediately. Thank you.
posted by carmicha at 3:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [74 favorites]
once you start seeing the medical establishment as a trap meant to extort hidden fees and ruin your life, it doesn't even register as a viable option without some serious consideration.
This helps make the vitamin/supplement industry so profitable, especially the "miracle cures doctors won't tell you" side of it -- for instance, Mike Huckabee promoting cinnamon pills for diabetes, or the orange menace himself with a piss-test and vitamin-peddling pyramid scheme.
posted by holgate at 3:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
This helps make the vitamin/supplement industry so profitable, especially the "miracle cures doctors won't tell you" side of it -- for instance, Mike Huckabee promoting cinnamon pills for diabetes, or the orange menace himself with a piss-test and vitamin-peddling pyramid scheme.
posted by holgate at 3:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
The sick thing about all the workarounds people come up with to avoid going to the doctor is that many conservatives would applaud it as ingenuity and innovation. They like it when you sew up your own wounds.
The weird part of this is that even doctors are reluctant to make decisions for insured medical patients. I had a bike accident last summer where I was knocked out cold and in the emergency room the team of three doctors just gave me a big shruggie on whether I should get a scan because they can't ever be sure that insurance will cover it. They were all like "You seem fine but you could be bleeding in brain. You can get a scan or you can go home and if you head starts to hurt or you get dizzy come back in". So I got the scan because I don't like rolling dice with death. Now in all likelihood waiting would probably have been the smarter medical decision because a bleed might not have even been visible so soon after the accident but that isn't what they said to me. What they said was "Have you been here before? Well we are a small plate place. Pick a couple things. We recommend three plates per person".
The American Health Sales system is just so fucked.
posted by srboisvert at 3:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
The weird part of this is that even doctors are reluctant to make decisions for insured medical patients. I had a bike accident last summer where I was knocked out cold and in the emergency room the team of three doctors just gave me a big shruggie on whether I should get a scan because they can't ever be sure that insurance will cover it. They were all like "You seem fine but you could be bleeding in brain. You can get a scan or you can go home and if you head starts to hurt or you get dizzy come back in". So I got the scan because I don't like rolling dice with death. Now in all likelihood waiting would probably have been the smarter medical decision because a bleed might not have even been visible so soon after the accident but that isn't what they said to me. What they said was "Have you been here before? Well we are a small plate place. Pick a couple things. We recommend three plates per person".
The American Health Sales system is just so fucked.
posted by srboisvert at 3:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
> We're so lucky they're this bad at fascism.
My current thing to not think about lest the panic overtake me is that history will remember Trump less like Hitler and more like Hindenburg: not the monster himself, but instead the in-over-his-head old man whose ineptitude results in the monster's rise to power.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
My current thing to not think about lest the panic overtake me is that history will remember Trump less like Hitler and more like Hindenburg: not the monster himself, but instead the in-over-his-head old man whose ineptitude results in the monster's rise to power.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
The sick thing about all the workarounds people come up with to avoid going to the doctor is that many conservatives would applaud it as ingenuity and innovation. They like it when you sew up your own wounds.
The example Rep. Bill Huizenga (R-MI) gave in an interview with MLive.com was from his own experience when he waited until the morning after to take his youngest son to the doctor with an injured arm, because he did not want to waste money on an expensive emergency room visit. The arm, it turned out, was broken.
posted by PenDevil at 3:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
The example Rep. Bill Huizenga (R-MI) gave in an interview with MLive.com was from his own experience when he waited until the morning after to take his youngest son to the doctor with an injured arm, because he did not want to waste money on an expensive emergency room visit. The arm, it turned out, was broken.
posted by PenDevil at 3:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
My letter to Uline got a response! Here it is, in full, formatted as received with just the names replaced/redacted:
Dear carmicha,
Thank you for contacting Uline Customer Service.
We are unable to comment on the political beliefs or positions of any of our owners or employees.
We appreciate your feedback and will forward it to the appropriate department.
Sincerely,
[Redacted]
Uline
posted by carmicha at 3:33 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Dear carmicha,
Thank you for contacting Uline Customer Service.
We are unable to comment on the political beliefs or positions of any of our owners or employees.
We appreciate your feedback and will forward it to the appropriate department.
Sincerely,
[Redacted]
Uline
posted by carmicha at 3:33 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Actually, Hindenburg was the name of the doctor. His airship was the monster
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:33 PM on March 14, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:33 PM on March 14, 2017 [41 favorites]
That's fucking child abuse.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 3:33 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 3:33 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
I was responding to the story about Huizenga.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 3:34 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 3:34 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes it is.
posted by Artw at 3:35 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:35 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, in West Virginia, the legislature is working on a bill to eliminate approximately all mine safety enforcement. There would no longer be inspections, just "compliance visits and education" and instead of citations for violating regulations (which they also plan to repeal), you just get a "compliance assistance visit notices."
posted by zachlipton at 3:44 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:44 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
The Rude Pundit: GOP Straight Up Wants People to Die (Almost Literally)
posted by homunculus at 3:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 3:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
CNN Reporter Jim Acosta Confronts Spicer: 'Medicare Is Government-Run, People Like It!'
While Spicer was spewing his talking points about the ACA being "government-run health care" that "nobody wants," Acosta stopped him cold.
"Medicare is government-run healthcare," Acosta reminded him. "People seem to like it."
This sent Spicer on a minute-long rant about Medicaid, and how no one can get a doctor who takes Medicaid and so freedom dictates that they should have no doctor at all or some such.
Spicer glided right past Medicare, because Acosta is right. It works, and people like it. And yeah, it's "government-run."
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
While Spicer was spewing his talking points about the ACA being "government-run health care" that "nobody wants," Acosta stopped him cold.
"Medicare is government-run healthcare," Acosta reminded him. "People seem to like it."
This sent Spicer on a minute-long rant about Medicaid, and how no one can get a doctor who takes Medicaid and so freedom dictates that they should have no doctor at all or some such.
Spicer glided right past Medicare, because Acosta is right. It works, and people like it. And yeah, it's "government-run."
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
The example Rep. Bill Huizenga (R-MI) gave in an interview with MLive.com was from his own experience when he waited until the morning after to take his youngest son to the doctor with an injured arm, because he did not want to waste money on an expensive emergency room visit. The arm, it turned out, was broken.
I often think about the fact that I probably owe my continued existence on the planet to not being American. I had appendicitis at 13 and I have a father who is probably 1000% more stingy than Huizenga so instead of a single payer covered same day emergency appendectomy I probably would have had 'wait and see if gets better to avoid a costly deductible' lead to a ruptured appendix with possible septicemia and death. This alternate universe mortality salience is all because a few years after my appendectomy I saw a Macleans magazine advertisement for travel insurance that said an appendectomy in the U.S. cost $13,000 and I figured my Dad wouldn't pay that or even 20% of that since he wouldn't even buy me a baseball mitt. (Appendectomies in the US now apparently cost anywhere from $10,000 to $180,000).
posted by srboisvert at 3:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
I often think about the fact that I probably owe my continued existence on the planet to not being American. I had appendicitis at 13 and I have a father who is probably 1000% more stingy than Huizenga so instead of a single payer covered same day emergency appendectomy I probably would have had 'wait and see if gets better to avoid a costly deductible' lead to a ruptured appendix with possible septicemia and death. This alternate universe mortality salience is all because a few years after my appendectomy I saw a Macleans magazine advertisement for travel insurance that said an appendectomy in the U.S. cost $13,000 and I figured my Dad wouldn't pay that or even 20% of that since he wouldn't even buy me a baseball mitt. (Appendectomies in the US now apparently cost anywhere from $10,000 to $180,000).
posted by srboisvert at 3:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
> Meanwhile, in West Virginia, the legislature is working on a bill to eliminate approximately all mine safety enforcement. There would no longer be inspections, just "compliance visits and education" and instead of citations for violating regulations (which they also plan to repeal), you just get a "compliance assistance visit notices."
Hopefully the compliance assistance visitor will be Mothman.
posted by christopherious at 3:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hopefully the compliance assistance visitor will be Mothman.
posted by christopherious at 3:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump’s White House security aide Keith Schiller has a history of financial problems
And that is putting it mildly.
-- Keith Schiller, the former Trump Organization security chief whom the president has brought into the White House as director of Oval Office operations, has a long trail of tax liens and mortgage foreclosures, according to financial records reviewed by Newsweek.
Schiller and his wife Lena were sued three times for unpaid taxes, once by New York State and twice by the IRS, the last instance as recently as four years ago, publicly available records show. A decade ago, two of their properties, one in New York and one in Florida, were foreclosed for nonpayment.
-- A government employee struggling with financial problems is considered a security risk, according to the Department of Homeland Security’s 2014 guideline on “insider threats.” Schiller’s troubled financial history also raises questions about the rigor of the security vetting process...
He's a violent asshole to boot.
The burly Schiller, 58, was involved in several campaign incidents in which he physically clashed with demonstrators or reporters. In one videotaped incident, Schiller manhandled Univision anchorman Jorge Ramos during a Trump press conference when Ramos persisted in asking questions. In another, Schiller punched a protester outside Trump Tower. (A suit filed by five demonstrators against Schiller and four other unnamed Trump security guards after that incident is ongoing.) And on March 10, Schiller was in the news again when he “began yelling loudly" at reporters to leave a White House press event.
By many accounts, Schiller is not just a bodyguard but one of the president’s closest confidants, often spending evenings dining and watching TV with Trump in the White House residential quarters. Dietl, a Fox News fixture who is running for mayor of New York, says their bond is built on decades of trust and comfort.
Good article. Packed with info.
posted by futz at 3:56 PM on March 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
And that is putting it mildly.
-- Keith Schiller, the former Trump Organization security chief whom the president has brought into the White House as director of Oval Office operations, has a long trail of tax liens and mortgage foreclosures, according to financial records reviewed by Newsweek.
Schiller and his wife Lena were sued three times for unpaid taxes, once by New York State and twice by the IRS, the last instance as recently as four years ago, publicly available records show. A decade ago, two of their properties, one in New York and one in Florida, were foreclosed for nonpayment.
-- A government employee struggling with financial problems is considered a security risk, according to the Department of Homeland Security’s 2014 guideline on “insider threats.” Schiller’s troubled financial history also raises questions about the rigor of the security vetting process...
He's a violent asshole to boot.
The burly Schiller, 58, was involved in several campaign incidents in which he physically clashed with demonstrators or reporters. In one videotaped incident, Schiller manhandled Univision anchorman Jorge Ramos during a Trump press conference when Ramos persisted in asking questions. In another, Schiller punched a protester outside Trump Tower. (A suit filed by five demonstrators against Schiller and four other unnamed Trump security guards after that incident is ongoing.) And on March 10, Schiller was in the news again when he “began yelling loudly" at reporters to leave a White House press event.
By many accounts, Schiller is not just a bodyguard but one of the president’s closest confidants, often spending evenings dining and watching TV with Trump in the White House residential quarters. Dietl, a Fox News fixture who is running for mayor of New York, says their bond is built on decades of trust and comfort.
Good article. Packed with info.
posted by futz at 3:56 PM on March 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
Senate nixes Obama-era drug testing rule: The Senate voted Tuesday to roll back an Obama-era regulation that limits who can be drug tested while applying for unemployment benefits.
Senators voted along party lines 51-48 under the Congressional Review Act to cut the rule. The legislation already passed the House and now heads to President Trump's desk, where he is expected to sign it.
Under a 2012 law, states can only drug test individuals applying for unemployment benefits if they were previously fired for drug use or work in jobs for which workers are regularly drug tested. The Obama rule specified a list of jobs the could be included under the rule.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Senators voted along party lines 51-48 under the Congressional Review Act to cut the rule. The legislation already passed the House and now heads to President Trump's desk, where he is expected to sign it.
Under a 2012 law, states can only drug test individuals applying for unemployment benefits if they were previously fired for drug use or work in jobs for which workers are regularly drug tested. The Obama rule specified a list of jobs the could be included under the rule.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
without considering how the costs of veterinary medicine are mostly curtailed because euthanasia is also A Thing for sick animals.
That doesn't explain why the medicines are much cheaper, though. My husband, raised rural, used to get medicines prescribed by the veterinarian for a "Teenage Boy Weight German Shepherd" because they were so much cheaper than a human pharmacy.
posted by corb at 4:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
That doesn't explain why the medicines are much cheaper, though. My husband, raised rural, used to get medicines prescribed by the veterinarian for a "Teenage Boy Weight German Shepherd" because they were so much cheaper than a human pharmacy.
posted by corb at 4:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Democrats reintroduce major LGBTQ anti-discrimination bills granting gender identity and sexual orientation status as protected classes and explicitly granting transgender students bathroom access. Oregon’s Jeff Merkley, a Democrat, said colleagues opposed to the bill “should have to stand up and explain why.”
The motivation seems to be to drive a wedge through Republican party lines on protecting LGBTQ Americans. I think this is genius, because these are issues that do have wide bipartisan American support and simultaneously factionalize the Republican elected officials dramatically. Pit the theocrats against the money-worshipers with my blessing!
posted by sciatrix at 4:02 PM on March 14, 2017 [70 favorites]
The motivation seems to be to drive a wedge through Republican party lines on protecting LGBTQ Americans. I think this is genius, because these are issues that do have wide bipartisan American support and simultaneously factionalize the Republican elected officials dramatically. Pit the theocrats against the money-worshipers with my blessing!
posted by sciatrix at 4:02 PM on March 14, 2017 [70 favorites]
So the Spencer Daily News is not doing a great job covering why Indivisible members are picketing Steve King's office, but it's great that Indivisible members are picketing Steve King's office in Spencer.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:02 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:02 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
Schiller’s troubled financial history also raises questions about the rigor of the security vetting process...Doesn't "not obviously in the pay of a foreign oligarch" count as a win by current security standards?
posted by octobersurprise at 4:07 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
> Meet the Hundreds of Officials Trump Has Quietly Installed Across the Government
We have obtained a list of more than 400 Trump administration hires, including dozens of lobbyists and some from far-right media.
Short Democracy Now interview with the author: From Lobbyists to Reality Show Stars, Meet the Hundreds of Officials Trump Has Quietly Installed
Also: Is Jared Kushner Breaking the Law with $400M Real Estate Deal with Firm Tied to Chinese Gov't?
posted by homunculus at 4:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
We have obtained a list of more than 400 Trump administration hires, including dozens of lobbyists and some from far-right media.
Short Democracy Now interview with the author: From Lobbyists to Reality Show Stars, Meet the Hundreds of Officials Trump Has Quietly Installed
Also: Is Jared Kushner Breaking the Law with $400M Real Estate Deal with Firm Tied to Chinese Gov't?
posted by homunculus at 4:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Breaking; Chuck Grassley says he won't put AG nom Rosenstein up for a vote until Senate Judiciary gets a briefing from Comey on Russia. (Stories to come, I guess.)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:14 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:14 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Medicare is government-run healthcare," Acosta reminded him. "People seem to like it."
This sent Spicer on a minute-long rant about Medicaid, and how no one can get a doctor who takes Medicaid and so freedom dictates that they should have no doctor at all or some such.
To be fair, he may not know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid?
Wait, no, that's not better.
Or is it?
I don't... eurgh.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
This sent Spicer on a minute-long rant about Medicaid, and how no one can get a doctor who takes Medicaid and so freedom dictates that they should have no doctor at all or some such.
To be fair, he may not know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid?
Wait, no, that's not better.
Or is it?
I don't... eurgh.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
In Josh Marshall's new piece from today, Among the Brutalized and the Murderers, he explores some of the post-WWI factors that led to the industrialized genocide of the Third Reich.
For all the wanking over the fact that my grandparents' and great-grandparents' generations "won WWII", a whole lot has been forgotten about what had been happening in Europe for centuries, the many sacrifices people had to make, and all the shit they went through to do so. Can't say I've ever met anyone who's has been in combat who wanted to repeat it or to have others experience it--even they who fought the Third Reich or Imperial Japanese Army/Navy.
Breaks my heart how so many seem to be actively working to foment hostilities at all levels of societal organization.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
One persistent theme of this story was that each 'ethnicity' had a state somewhere or was trying to create one that would vindicate and protect it and brutalize those communities which stood in the way of creating ethnically homogenous states. So Magyars were the brutalizers in one place and the brutalized in another - the same could be said for virtually every national group, albeit with the groups with new states generally having the whip hand. This story is most discussed in the arc of German history but Gerwarth places it in a broader, pan-European (at least all-East and Central European) context. [...]Josh spells it out clearly--the radical authoritarians are making use of old hypernationalistic tools that eventually wrought massive destruction all over the world. I fear that his point about Jewish people--a diasporatic group with no homeland at that time--extends to anyone else without a "homeland" (read: trans people, gay people, Jewish people, refugees, and so on) in the present day.
Reading through Gerwarth's narrative you find this recurring pattern of one group brutalizing another where it was in the stronger position. But in virtually every case where it's Pole vs Ukrainians or Magyar vs Romanian or German v Czech, in almost every case, the dominating group is also killing the Jews it found in the way too. Jews similarly became the central objects of cults of revenge in most regions, most consequentially in the German hyper-nationalist right.[...]
The generally peaceful world we have all grown up in is not normal or pre-ordained. It was built by design, a great deal of work and sacrifice and on the experience of and in response to almost unimaginable destruction. It's not natural. It can easily be very different. The wave of rightist, populist politics which is now making a bid for power in Europe and which is represented in the United States by President Trump and his key advisors is expressly based on the rightist, hyper-nationalist politics of this period.
For all the wanking over the fact that my grandparents' and great-grandparents' generations "won WWII", a whole lot has been forgotten about what had been happening in Europe for centuries, the many sacrifices people had to make, and all the shit they went through to do so. Can't say I've ever met anyone who's has been in combat who wanted to repeat it or to have others experience it--even they who fought the Third Reich or Imperial Japanese Army/Navy.
Breaks my heart how so many seem to be actively working to foment hostilities at all levels of societal organization.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [28 favorites]
Good god can the Dmitry Rybolovlev drama get any worse? Yes, yes it can: Yachts of Trump financial backer, Russian oligarch seen close together
We had Rybolovlev buying a massive mansion in Palm Beach from Trump, then the weirdness of Rybolovlev and Trump's planes meeting during the campaign, and now Rybolovlev's yacht winds up next to Robert Mercer's.
As with everything else, there's a good chance it's nothing, but I mean come on.
posted by zachlipton at 4:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
We had Rybolovlev buying a massive mansion in Palm Beach from Trump, then the weirdness of Rybolovlev and Trump's planes meeting during the campaign, and now Rybolovlev's yacht winds up next to Robert Mercer's.
As with everything else, there's a good chance it's nothing, but I mean come on.
posted by zachlipton at 4:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
The belief I used to have in my ability to matter for people?
Why Sciatrix Matters to Me:
A few months ago, after the Orange One was elected but before he ascended, I happened to mention a quite liberal Australian friend of mine who had said that he thought the USA had "lost that pride in itself that made it want to be an example. He thought Trump would restore that pride and make the USA a force for good again."
Sciatrix replied
And since then I've tried to speak up about this and similar things. Just a few days ago when the dinner party conversation was "women can't and shouldn't aspire to the same career paths as men because babies and upper body strength" I gave an impassioned lecture about people doing what they want and are good at rather than accepting arbitrary limitations; and that traditionally female careers aren't actually easier, they're just less rewarding, and that if we respected women and their choices more it would be better for everyone. And you know, there were some very traditionally raised young women there who were nodding along with me thoughtfully, and maybe they're not going to accept being relegated to teaching or childcare without considering where their strengths and passion lie. And that's just a second-degree inspiration from Sciatrix, if they were exposed to her directly I expect they'd be marching in the streets wearing pussyhats.
Sciatrix, I wish the people you love treated you and your family with the respect and love they deserve, but please don't ever think you don't matter to people. You matter to people all over the world, including people who never heard of you, and the things you do and stand for are just going to keep on reverberating, not just in Texas but around the world.
– Not singeing mice though, I can't endorse that.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [137 favorites]
Why Sciatrix Matters to Me:
A few months ago, after the Orange One was elected but before he ascended, I happened to mention a quite liberal Australian friend of mine who had said that he thought the USA had "lost that pride in itself that made it want to be an example. He thought Trump would restore that pride and make the USA a force for good again."
Sciatrix replied
I just wanted to tell your friend that he had hit me in a fucking sore spot, in part because I actually held my patriotism and my faith in institutions pretty close to my heart. And now that faith is bleeding badly and I, like many people around me, am wrestling with a kind of trauma to my soul. If you see your friend, tell me what he thinks of that. I am genuinely interested to know.I'm not a very confrontational person, and I don't see this guy very often, but as it happened I ran into him the very next day. So I told him what Sciatrix had said, and he seemed to take it to heart.
And since then I've tried to speak up about this and similar things. Just a few days ago when the dinner party conversation was "women can't and shouldn't aspire to the same career paths as men because babies and upper body strength" I gave an impassioned lecture about people doing what they want and are good at rather than accepting arbitrary limitations; and that traditionally female careers aren't actually easier, they're just less rewarding, and that if we respected women and their choices more it would be better for everyone. And you know, there were some very traditionally raised young women there who were nodding along with me thoughtfully, and maybe they're not going to accept being relegated to teaching or childcare without considering where their strengths and passion lie. And that's just a second-degree inspiration from Sciatrix, if they were exposed to her directly I expect they'd be marching in the streets wearing pussyhats.
Sciatrix, I wish the people you love treated you and your family with the respect and love they deserve, but please don't ever think you don't matter to people. You matter to people all over the world, including people who never heard of you, and the things you do and stand for are just going to keep on reverberating, not just in Texas but around the world.
– Not singeing mice though, I can't endorse that.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [137 favorites]
The Palm Beach Post's reporting has been great, and suggestive of more to come. Though I'm surprised that nobody asked the (ex-Breitbarter) pet flack of the oligarch what the deal was in flying that huge jet 20 miles across Charlotte.
posted by holgate at 4:28 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by holgate at 4:28 PM on March 14, 2017
Senate nixes Obama-era drug testing rule
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
But it's okay to overrule state governments on weed. I'm developing an unhealthy all-consuming hatred for Republicans in general and that son-of-a-turtlefucker McConnell in particular.
Republicans have argued the Obama regulation amounted to a federal overreach that limited a state's ability to determine its own drug testing policy.
"As we saw too often, the Obama administration went beyond its legal authority in creating legislation that limits the role of state governments," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said from the Senate floor.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
I know about singing mice.
Singeing them freaks me out...
posted by futz at 4:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Singeing them freaks me out...
posted by futz at 4:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
They're starting the process of fucking up Medicaid. Price is offering to consider waiver requests from states to add work requirements, premiums and cost sharing, and other awfulness.
posted by zachlipton at 4:33 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:33 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Not singeing mice though, I can't endorse that.
She sings to them, she doesn't singe them.
What? They sing to her? Awesome.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:34 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
She sings to them, she doesn't singe them.
What? They sing to her? Awesome.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:34 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maddow apparently has Trump tax returns
posted by localhuman at 4:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 4:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [43 favorites]
They already started (re)fucking up Medicaid, first with the non-expansion of course and then with negotiations with the Obama Administration for waivers, most notably in Indiana but also in a few other states.
Because Medicaid eligibility determinations weren't already a confusing bureaucratic nightmare that the ACA was only just starting to unravel (and in some cases, sadly, make worse, in my opinion, by the addition of managed care organizations).
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:38 PM on March 14, 2017
Because Medicaid eligibility determinations weren't already a confusing bureaucratic nightmare that the ACA was only just starting to unravel (and in some cases, sadly, make worse, in my opinion, by the addition of managed care organizations).
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:38 PM on March 14, 2017
Uh. Maddow has news.
BREAKING: We've got Trump tax returns. Tonight, 9pm ET. MSNBC.
(Seriously).
posted by rewil at 4:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
BREAKING: We've got Trump tax returns. Tonight, 9pm ET. MSNBC.
(Seriously).
posted by rewil at 4:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
Maddow apparently has Trump tax returns
WHAAAAAAAT!!!!!!
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
WHAAAAAAAT!!!!!!
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
In this country we have cheap food, we have cheap clothes, we have cheap gas, we have cheap electronics and appliances but the one thing that is going to continue to spiral farther and farther out of reach of the middle class American is health care. Due to bad genetics I had to have a hip replacement at 55. Fortunately we had good insurance and the $5,000 that our share of the bill cost. Now my orthopedic surgeon wants me to think about getting a partial knee replacement but nobody can tell me for sure what my costs will be and I don't have a nest egg anymore.
A few days before the inauguration I had to go to the ER. I struggled not to because we all know what kind of bills come out of a few hours in ER. I waited all night and called as soon as my doctor's office was open in the morning hoping he could see me. The triage nurse told me to go to the ER ASAP because I was getting shocky from blood loss. Our Federal Employee Insurance through Blue Cross was pretty helpful. They knocked down the CAT scan bill from $7000 to $1800. Plus three different doctors submitted bills for reading the test results but our insurance said "LOL we will only allow one bill" so our portion was a small fraction of what it could have been. Our out of pocket expenses came to $1000 and the hospital gave us a nice discount for paying cash within 30 days. Not terrible, but $800 is a hard thing to swallow when it is unexpected and it didn't result in a diagnosis and I still have to go have more tests.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
A few days before the inauguration I had to go to the ER. I struggled not to because we all know what kind of bills come out of a few hours in ER. I waited all night and called as soon as my doctor's office was open in the morning hoping he could see me. The triage nurse told me to go to the ER ASAP because I was getting shocky from blood loss. Our Federal Employee Insurance through Blue Cross was pretty helpful. They knocked down the CAT scan bill from $7000 to $1800. Plus three different doctors submitted bills for reading the test results but our insurance said "LOL we will only allow one bill" so our portion was a small fraction of what it could have been. Our out of pocket expenses came to $1000 and the hospital gave us a nice discount for paying cash within 30 days. Not terrible, but $800 is a hard thing to swallow when it is unexpected and it didn't result in a diagnosis and I still have to go have more tests.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Man, I hope it's at least one real, full, recent tax return. I've been wondering why it would take so long for something like that to leak, and my best guess is that the IRS has really good auditing about who accesses what.
posted by uosuaq at 4:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 4:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I am profoundly excited for this report, but also slightly concerned because I know Maddow's style, and I'm concerned she's going to spend the first 20 minutes of her show slowly repeating herself as she provides a patient and thorough explanation of what a tax return is and who Donald Trump is before she gets to it.
posted by zachlipton at 4:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [25 favorites]
Oh god, Maddow... You better not be playing with us and come out with some tax return from 1986 or some crap.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 4:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 4:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
Uh. Maddow has news.
(Tweet does not specify which member of the Family Business. Though that's a pretty clickbaity way to promote, say, a return where Eric writes off his golf car.)
posted by holgate at 4:44 PM on March 14, 2017
(Tweet does not specify which member of the Family Business. Though that's a pretty clickbaity way to promote, say, a return where Eric writes off his golf car.)
posted by holgate at 4:44 PM on March 14, 2017
Yeah, she'd better have the goods, or her credibility is shot forever.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:45 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:45 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
I hope Maddow's people have sourced those tax returns to hell and back. With the way things have been going for the Trump team, I wouldn't put it past them to try a Killian Documents gambit.
posted by vibrotronica at 4:45 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by vibrotronica at 4:45 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
I hope these are authentic, full returns from at least the last 10 years for that man's "businesses". We all deserve to know about that family's convoluted web of financial depredation and depravity.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:45 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:45 PM on March 14, 2017
i would say that if this isn't the real goods, Maddow is gonna go into Al Capone's Secret Vault of Shame for the rest of her career?
posted by murphy slaw at 4:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 4:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Pod Save America folks are doing an AMA on reddit right now.
We’re a couple of former Obama staffers who figured it was time to create a place to talk about politics the way actual human beings talk. Our show Pod Save America is a no-bullshit podcast dedicated to every American who isn't ready to give up or go insane. Ask Us Anything!
posted by futz at 4:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
We’re a couple of former Obama staffers who figured it was time to create a place to talk about politics the way actual human beings talk. Our show Pod Save America is a no-bullshit podcast dedicated to every American who isn't ready to give up or go insane. Ask Us Anything!
posted by futz at 4:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
Those tax returns had better not be the one from 1995 Marla Maples leaked -- or a couple more from that era added to the collection.
posted by notyou at 4:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by notyou at 4:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, I just hopped on a bus to run some errands but it looks like I need to be home in an hour. I'll pick up some popcorn.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 4:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maddow's ratings have been rising sharply since the election, so I don't think she's dumb enough to pull some sort of "We have the Tiffany Trump Tax Returns!" scam to get people to tune in. I was a regular watcher of her show but took a break for my mental health, but if it is a ratings ploy, it's working for this guy tonight.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:49 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 4:49 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I trust Maddow to believe she has something, and that "(seriously)" in her tweet gives me hope. She may be verbose but she's not sloppy.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 4:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
> The motivation seems to be to drive a wedge through Republican party lines on protecting LGBTQ Americans.
This is definitely worth a shot, but given the number of actual socially liberal Republicans in Congress, it seems like it'll be more of a scalpel than a wedge to me. Maybe peel off two or three of them who actually walk the walk.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is definitely worth a shot, but given the number of actual socially liberal Republicans in Congress, it seems like it'll be more of a scalpel than a wedge to me. Maybe peel off two or three of them who actually walk the walk.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Have been watching Maddow for the past few weeks and she's been like a bloodhound on the trail of the Russia stuff, all the while managing to not overhype the connections or oversell her hand. With her highest ratings in forever, she has nothing to gain by doing this stupid-like.
Also, say what you will about her style and plodding and whatnot. she is my even when i have no evens left
posted by localhuman at 4:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
Also, say what you will about her style and plodding and whatnot. she is my even when i have no evens left
posted by localhuman at 4:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
"We've got Trump tax returns"
Hm. Is it paranoid of me to worry that the fact the wording says "Trump tax returns" rather than "the Trump tax returns" or even "Trump's tax returns" means they might be older tax documents, from like the 1980s or something?
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:54 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hm. Is it paranoid of me to worry that the fact the wording says "Trump tax returns" rather than "the Trump tax returns" or even "Trump's tax returns" means they might be older tax documents, from like the 1980s or something?
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:54 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
WSJ: "Steve Bannon and the Making of an Economic Nationalist" (routed through tweet to bypass paywall)
posted by Apocryphon at 4:59 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by Apocryphon at 4:59 PM on March 14, 2017
The wording is so specifically vague that I think it can't be the real biggie and must instead be the returns of other members of the imperial household or old/partial returns.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
1) Could be not so relevant (old or another family member)
2) Could be they don't show as much as we hoped
3) Could be they show a whole hell of a lot and Trump and his followers blow it off as fake news or not important
I'm interested but not looking for the magic bullet.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
2) Could be they don't show as much as we hoped
3) Could be they show a whole hell of a lot and Trump and his followers blow it off as fake news or not important
I'm interested but not looking for the magic bullet.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am going to tune into msnbc to see what they are saying ahead of Maddow's show. We will find out what is what in an hour when this thread will explode.
Ok Chris Hayes said nothing about this at the top of his hour and Matthews said nothing at the end of his. I will report back if anything changes but I don't want to clog up the thread with speculation.
posted by futz at 5:03 PM on March 14, 2017
Ok Chris Hayes said nothing about this at the top of his hour and Matthews said nothing at the end of his. I will report back if anything changes but I don't want to clog up the thread with speculation.
posted by futz at 5:03 PM on March 14, 2017
I trust Maddow not to pull an Al Capone's Vault on this one, but I'll admit to sharing others' worry that she'll have either tax returns that aren't relevant or tax returns that are relevant but don't show anything noteworthy.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 5:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's apparently a David Cay Johnston story. He's doing Lawrence O'Donnell too.
posted by zachlipton at 5:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 5:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, it could be that she has returns from the Trump Company or Trump Foundation, rather than Trump's personal tax returns. (I actually think the former are more likely to have dirt than the latter, but the latter are what everybody's been breathlessly speculating about.)
posted by tobascodagama at 5:05 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by tobascodagama at 5:05 PM on March 14, 2017
GODDAMMIT RACHEL! THIS BETTER BE GOOD! Swear to maude, I can't take the disappointment rn.
posted by Sophie1 at 5:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 5:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
A tale of two Republicans: Rep. Yoho says he won't support the AHCA because it's not cruel enough, while Rep. Ros-Lehtinen won't support the bill because it's too cruel.
posted by zachlipton at 5:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
GODDAMMIT RACHEL! THIS BETTER BE GOOD! Swear to maude, I can't take the disappointment rn.
My expectations are so low if they look up they see the basement floor. This is the era of disappointment. Don't get your hopes up
posted by dis_integration at 5:14 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
My expectations are so low if they look up they see the basement floor. This is the era of disappointment. Don't get your hopes up
posted by dis_integration at 5:14 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
If Maddow has the real deal, I hope that she and her staff are ninja-trained at dodging polonium-tipped blowdarts.
posted by delfin at 5:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by delfin at 5:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also related: Gideon Resnick (Daily Beast) tweeted: i have the tax returns
Seems like this is a David Cay Johnston/Daily Beast story that they're breaking on Maddow. Trade in popcorn futures has been suspended after record-breaking price spikes.
posted by zachlipton at 5:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Seems like this is a David Cay Johnston/Daily Beast story that they're breaking on Maddow. Trade in popcorn futures has been suspended after record-breaking price spikes.
posted by zachlipton at 5:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
msnbc now has a countdown to Maddow's show: Trump Taxes Exclusive.
Not sure how long the countdown has been up.
posted by futz at 5:15 PM on March 14, 2017
Not sure how long the countdown has been up.
posted by futz at 5:15 PM on March 14, 2017
So, while I trust Maddow's judgment, I have no clue how reliable this David Cay Johnston guy is. Anybody else have an opinion on him?
posted by tobascodagama at 5:18 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by tobascodagama at 5:18 PM on March 14, 2017
Resnick tweet was deleted/edited, so here's the original David Cay Johnston tweet.
posted by Freon at 5:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Freon at 5:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
It gives me pleasure to imagine what's going down in the Oval right now.
posted by localhuman at 5:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by localhuman at 5:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
is there any way someone without cable can pay msnbc to watch it live
asking for about three friends
posted by sciatrix at 5:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
asking for about three friends
posted by sciatrix at 5:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
My guess: Johnston has new details about the old Trump tax returns from the 1970s that he talks about in his old book on Atlantic City.
Get ready for a nothingburger that Maddow takes an hour to explain while hyping as not a nothingburger
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Get ready for a nothingburger that Maddow takes an hour to explain while hyping as not a nothingburger
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
I have no clue how reliable this David Cay Johnston guy is.
Oh, he's pretty good. If someone had docs to leak, he'd be one of the people at the top of the list. (Especially since Wayne Barrett is no longer with us.)
posted by holgate at 5:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, he's pretty good. If someone had docs to leak, he'd be one of the people at the top of the list. (Especially since Wayne Barrett is no longer with us.)
posted by holgate at 5:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
is there any way someone without cable can pay msnbc to watch it live
Go to a bar and tip the bartender to change the channel?
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Go to a bar and tip the bartender to change the channel?
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Three sources have told me the tax returns on Maddow tonight are 2005 tax returns and Trump reports 150 million in income.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:22 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 5:22 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
It gives me pleasure to imagine what's going down in the Oval right now.
"Waitaminute, who has my returns?"
"Rachel Maddow"
"Which one is she, the blonde with the gams?"
"No Donald"
"Ah, I got it, the blonde with the cans!"
"No Donald, she's a serious and very credible journalist on a network other than Fox News."
.....
"I have no idea what the hell you're talking about"
posted by splen at 5:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Waitaminute, who has my returns?"
"Rachel Maddow"
"Which one is she, the blonde with the gams?"
"No Donald"
"Ah, I got it, the blonde with the cans!"
"No Donald, she's a serious and very credible journalist on a network other than Fox News."
.....
"I have no idea what the hell you're talking about"
posted by splen at 5:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
It gives me pleasure to imagine what's going down in the Oval right now.
Something something nuclear launch codes?
posted by acidic at 5:23 PM on March 14, 2017
Something something nuclear launch codes?
posted by acidic at 5:23 PM on March 14, 2017
I really hope it's more than that, nobody cares about 2005 unless there are sketchy deposits that can be linked to Russia talks. (But most of the interesting stuff with Russia seems to have happened in 2015/2016, so that seems unlikely.)
posted by tobascodagama at 5:24 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by tobascodagama at 5:24 PM on March 14, 2017
If it turns out Donald once bought some tacks at the local hardware store and later returned them...
posted by uosuaq at 5:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by uosuaq at 5:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
via madamejujujive (who has cable, alas i do not get msnbc): "She has tax expert David Cay Johnson on; she & he will also cotinue on hour 2 w Lawrence O'Donnell"
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:26 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:26 PM on March 14, 2017
Maddow confirms it's a form 1040 from 2005.
posted by zachlipton at 5:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Look who’s going after Trump’s Russia scandal
Democrats have been arguing for weeks that a special prosecutor or independent commission is required to get to the bottom of the metastasizing scandal over President Trump’s and his aides’ connections to Russia. Now they are getting help from Stand Up Republic, a group formed by the independent conservative presidential ticket of Evan McMullin and Mindy Finn. Stand Up Republic is out with a new ad entitled “Sunlight."posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [39 favorites]
This is the second such ad dinging Trump on his Russia ties and affection since his inauguration.
McMullin, who has become one of the most prominent conservative leaders in opposition to Trump and Trumpism, in these ads actually pressures Republicans, who have resisted a transparent, independent process. In doing so, he makes a critical point: Trump would not be concealing his taxes, apparently violating the emoluments clause, spitting out inhumane and constitutionally suspect executive orders on immigration and spewing loony conspiracy theories (only to send out Sean Spicer to walk back his “Obama wiretapped me” nonsense) if Republicans would stand up to him.
We can still get good information from his 2005 return. Things like what his effective tax rate was during that period. Charitable giving. Etc. It just won't shed light on possible connections to Russia, sadly.
posted by Justinian at 5:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 5:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
A 2005 1040 would at very least show how much of the $916 million loss in the 1995 return was still being carried over a decade later.
posted by holgate at 5:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by holgate at 5:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Josh Marshall says "2005 is legit, right around the time Trump plugged into the FSU money Bigly."
posted by diogenes at 5:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 5:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Man, tough crowd. No, the 2005 return isn't as juicy as the 2015 or 2016 return would be but it's still a Big Deal. You people!
posted by Justinian at 5:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
In a time not so very long ago, relationships, like Trump's, with Russian politics and finance, or then, the USSR, could have resulted in capital punishment.
There is a war going on and it's one in which $capital$ is king and winning...for now.
I'm wondering now how far that influence reaches...who is being influenced...why is the IC not dropping the hammer like a bad mofo?
I can only imagine that the trail of evidence must be incredibly damning. Trump & Co is flaunting this right in our faces.
Anyway, democracy is a struggle and we happen to be witness to one of the great struggles. I believe in democracy and I believe in our citizens. Many have been misguided and sold a bill of goods...some might wake up and I hope they do before there is any human cost of life.
posted by snsranch at 5:30 PM on March 14, 2017
There is a war going on and it's one in which $capital$ is king and winning...for now.
I'm wondering now how far that influence reaches...who is being influenced...why is the IC not dropping the hammer like a bad mofo?
I can only imagine that the trail of evidence must be incredibly damning. Trump & Co is flaunting this right in our faces.
Anyway, democracy is a struggle and we happen to be witness to one of the great struggles. I believe in democracy and I believe in our citizens. Many have been misguided and sold a bill of goods...some might wake up and I hope they do before there is any human cost of life.
posted by snsranch at 5:30 PM on March 14, 2017
FSU = Former Soviet Union
posted by diogenes at 5:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 5:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
The point is, the, uh...leaks? Are trickling in.
posted by agregoli at 5:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 5:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Man, tough crowd. No, the 2005 return isn't as juicy as the 2015 or 2016 return would be but it's still a Big Deal. You people!
HE LEAKED THEM HIMSELF AS A DISTRACTION
posted by acidic at 5:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
HE LEAKED THEM HIMSELF AS A DISTRACTION
posted by acidic at 5:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
So it is 2017. Eventually all the tax return info is gonna leak out right? And by trying to plug the dam aren't the Trump people just prolonging the agony? I mean, unless there is like super illegal shit in there. But it is government record, how incriminating could it possibly be? They ought to just dump it all to wikileaks, then deny anything that they don't like as fake news. We'd cry about whatever is in there for a week or two, then move on to the next disgusting thing.
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:31 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:31 PM on March 14, 2017
Damn, I was just trying to make a joke. This IS a tough crowd.
posted by agregoli at 5:33 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 5:33 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Damn, I was just trying to make a joke. This IS a tough crowd.
It's hard to do a piss take around here.
posted by nubs at 5:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
It's hard to do a piss take around here.
posted by nubs at 5:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
Lou Dobbs has chosen which side he is on: Ryan seems hell bound on destroying the GOP and working against the American people…It's time for Speaker Ryan to resign. #MAGA #Dobbs
Also, fabulous news! We're getting another Goldman Sachs guy at the Treasury. From Reuters: BREAKING: Trump to nominate Goldman Sachs managing director James Donovan as deputy Treasury secretary - White House
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also, fabulous news! We're getting another Goldman Sachs guy at the Treasury. From Reuters: BREAKING: Trump to nominate Goldman Sachs managing director James Donovan as deputy Treasury secretary - White House
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
HE LEAKED THEM HIMSELF AS A DISTRACTION
alexburnsNYT: "Bring me the head of the first person to suggest Trump leaked his own taxes to distract from the health care bill being engulfed in flame"
posted by zachlipton at 5:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
alexburnsNYT: "Bring me the head of the first person to suggest Trump leaked his own taxes to distract from the health care bill being engulfed in flame"
posted by zachlipton at 5:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
The White House has already released a statement that in 2005 Trump paid $38 million in taxes on income of $150million. It's almost like they actually can release this info if they feel like it and their prevarications are bullshit. But that can't be right.
posted by Justinian at 5:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
All of America right now. (links to a silly gif in a tweet)
posted by diogenes at 5:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by diogenes at 5:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
HE LEAKED THEM HIMSELF AS A DISTRACTION
CHAPTER 11-DIMENSIONAL CHESS!
posted by Atom Eyes at 5:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
CHAPTER 11-DIMENSIONAL CHESS!
posted by Atom Eyes at 5:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
14-Mar-2017 08:29:23 PM - WHITE HOUSE SAYS IN RESPONSE TO MSNBC THAT TRUMP PAID $38 MILLION IN TAXES ON INCOME OF $150 MILLION
Cut to Obama and Maddow clinking glasses behind a microwave because they have the password now
posted by acidic at 5:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
Cut to Obama and Maddow clinking glasses behind a microwave because they have the password now
posted by acidic at 5:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [27 favorites]
is there any way someone without cable can pay msnbc to watch it live
MSNBC live stream, sketchy but works (use with no script, ad block and ghostery) they also broadcast CNN and FOX.
posted by phoque at 5:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
MSNBC live stream, sketchy but works (use with no script, ad block and ghostery) they also broadcast CNN and FOX.
posted by phoque at 5:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
BUT HE'S BEING AUDITED!
posted by valkane at 5:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by valkane at 5:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Can we just tell the White House that we have his taxes every day and they'll reveal what's in them? I bet we could string them along for quite a while before they realize we don't have them.
posted by zachlipton at 5:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
Is he trying to scoop Maddow? What on earth. We've asked for this information a thousand times; you don't get to release it 30 minutes before someone scoops you and claim you're in the right.
posted by samthemander at 5:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 5:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ooooo I like the way you think, Zachlipton!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:42 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:42 PM on March 14, 2017
Ok, because I have the patience of a gnat when it comes to this stuff, if the WH has already said what the numbers are, is there anything left to care about?
Like a line item saying "income from Russia, with love?" Or a line about expenses for hookers and laundry?
posted by nubs at 5:43 PM on March 14, 2017
Like a line item saying "income from Russia, with love?" Or a line about expenses for hookers and laundry?
posted by nubs at 5:43 PM on March 14, 2017
So, ~25 minutes until Maddow, we know:
1. She has his 2005 taxes
2. David Cat Johnston is reporting - he has pulitzers for tax reporting
3. These 2005 tax returns are a 1040.
4. 2005 is the year Trump licensed a hotel in Moscow.
5. Felix Sater was involved in the deal
6. Felix Sater is a Russian American.
7. Sater was a senior advisor in building Trump SoHo in 2006 + also involved in Trump Hotel Phoenix
8. Sater met w/ Ukrainian opposition politician Andrey Artemenko + Trump’s personal lawyer in Jan 2017 to discuss lifting Russia sanctions
9. The proposal withdrew Russian forces from eastern Ukraine & allowed Ukrainians to vote on Crimea being “leased” Ex-NSA Head Flynn saw it
posted by waitingtoderail at 5:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [31 favorites]
1. She has his 2005 taxes
2. David Cat Johnston is reporting - he has pulitzers for tax reporting
3. These 2005 tax returns are a 1040.
4. 2005 is the year Trump licensed a hotel in Moscow.
5. Felix Sater was involved in the deal
6. Felix Sater is a Russian American.
7. Sater was a senior advisor in building Trump SoHo in 2006 + also involved in Trump Hotel Phoenix
8. Sater met w/ Ukrainian opposition politician Andrey Artemenko + Trump’s personal lawyer in Jan 2017 to discuss lifting Russia sanctions
9. The proposal withdrew Russian forces from eastern Ukraine & allowed Ukrainians to vote on Crimea being “leased” Ex-NSA Head Flynn saw it
posted by waitingtoderail at 5:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [31 favorites]
MSNBC live stream, sketchy but works (use with no script, ad block and ghostery) they also broadcast CNN and FOX.
excellent thank you
also, for those of y'all with cable, I bet you you could get into msnbc.com/now and log in.... which, if you combine that with rabb.it, would let you broadcast it for all of us in real time for free
just, you know, just saying
posted by sciatrix at 5:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Someone should tweet that they have the pee tape.
15-Mar-2017 03:22:13 AM - WHITE HOUSE SAYS THAT OBJECTS IN CAMERA ARE LARGER THAN THEY APPEAR AND BESIDES IT WAS VERY COLD IN THERE.
posted by Justinian at 5:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
15-Mar-2017 03:22:13 AM - WHITE HOUSE SAYS THAT OBJECTS IN CAMERA ARE LARGER THAN THEY APPEAR AND BESIDES IT WAS VERY COLD IN THERE.
posted by Justinian at 5:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
White House statement: Starts with "You know you are desperate for ratings when you are willing to violate the law to push a story about two pages of tax returns from over a decade ago."
posted by zachlipton at 5:44 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:44 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
> Damn, that was easy. Maddow should wait a couple days and say she has 2016 returns.
posted by 23skidoo at 5:42 PM on March 14 [1 favorite +] [!]
Here's hoping the plan is to do it year by year. "tune in tomorrow night for 2006," followed by "tune in tomorrow night for 2007," followed by etc.
okay and in this fantasy the orange fucker resigns the night before she gets to whichever one is most incriminating.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by 23skidoo at 5:42 PM on March 14 [1 favorite +] [!]
Here's hoping the plan is to do it year by year. "tune in tomorrow night for 2006," followed by "tune in tomorrow night for 2007," followed by etc.
okay and in this fantasy the orange fucker resigns the night before she gets to whichever one is most incriminating.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, back at the ranch: Comey privately told Sen. Whitehouse and Graham he'd confirm if Russia/Trump FBI inquiry exists by tomorrow
So we get to do this again tomorrow? I might stay in bed.
posted by zachlipton at 5:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
So we get to do this again tomorrow? I might stay in bed.
posted by zachlipton at 5:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
Any chance it'll be on MSNBC Live Online? The page says it's "temporarily down", but I don't know if that means there's a chance, or if it's been "temporarily" down for weeks/months/years.
posted by fragmede at 5:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fragmede at 5:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
That statement dictated directly by Clicker von Bathrobe.
posted by holgate at 5:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by holgate at 5:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Is there a link to an easy-to-digest (in the informational sense, at least), compiled list of Trump's EOs to date, and what each of them has done?
I feel like it's so overwhelming that I've started to lose track of exactly how shitty he is.
posted by darkstar at 5:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I feel like it's so overwhelming that I've started to lose track of exactly how shitty he is.
posted by darkstar at 5:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
>Starts with "You know you are desperate for ratings when you are willing to violate the law to push a story about two pages of tax returns from over a decade ago."
Pro tip: if you don't want people to think they're onto something, don't let them see you sweat.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Pro tip: if you don't want people to think they're onto something, don't let them see you sweat.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's like that Star Trek where they speak entirely in cultural references.
GERALDO! IN CAPONE'S VAULT!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:49 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
GERALDO! IN CAPONE'S VAULT!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:49 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
The White House response begins:
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:49 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
You know you are desperate for ratings when you are willing to violate the law to push a story about two pages of tax returns from over a decade ago.It goes on to describe DJT as "one of the most successful businessmen in the world" and concludes:
The dishonest media can continue to make this part of their agenda, while the President will focus on his, which includes tax reform that will benefit all Americans.Yeah, it's all about the ratings.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:49 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
If you don't have access to MSNBC and you're in the US -- it is one of the channels on Sirius XM, and you can sign up for a free 30 day trial. The commercials are different but otherwise it is live MSNBC.
posted by litlnemo at 5:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by litlnemo at 5:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also related: Gideon Resnick (Daily Beast) tweeted: i have the tax returns
Found while I was looking for Resnick's tweet:
"Twitter is a good microcosm of the sentiment that one holy grail could bring down Trump and not actually, ya know, organizing & politics
"This will certainly sink Trump
"[you, an unhappy voter]: i'm concerned about losing medicaid
[me, knowing reporter]: trump made a clerical error on his w4"
posted by Coventry at 5:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Found while I was looking for Resnick's tweet:
"Twitter is a good microcosm of the sentiment that one holy grail could bring down Trump and not actually, ya know, organizing & politics
"This will certainly sink Trump
"[you, an unhappy voter]: i'm concerned about losing medicaid
[me, knowing reporter]: trump made a clerical error on his w4"
posted by Coventry at 5:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
> Is there a link to an easy-to-digest (in the informational sense, at least), compiled list of Trump's EOs to date, and what each of them has done?
List of Executive Actions by Donald Trump on Wikipedia.
posted by fragmede at 5:52 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
List of Executive Actions by Donald Trump on Wikipedia.
posted by fragmede at 5:52 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
A very helpful mefite (hi bleep) has agreed to use my rabb.it account to log into MSNBC live with her credentials so y'all can come watch it with us if you want
posted by sciatrix at 5:52 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by sciatrix at 5:52 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
According to Ashley Biden, this is her dad's favorite bromance meme.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:54 PM on March 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:54 PM on March 14, 2017 [26 favorites]
This YouTube stream of MSNBC is working great for me.
posted by postagepaid at 5:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by postagepaid at 5:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Apparently, they found the 1040 in Trump's microwave. [fake]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:56 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:56 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
@seanhannity
@NBCNews on Jihad against @POTUS From access Hollywood, to morning Lib Joe, to Deep State Leaks. Media Corporate Jihad. Details at 10 FNC [real]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
@NBCNews on Jihad against @POTUS From access Hollywood, to morning Lib Joe, to Deep State Leaks. Media Corporate Jihad. Details at 10 FNC [real]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
While we are waiting, more from our favorite Iowan White Supremacist:
CNN Steve King: Blacks and Hispanics 'will be fighting each other' before overtaking whites in population
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
CNN Steve King: Blacks and Hispanics 'will be fighting each other' before overtaking whites in population
King, a Republican, was on the radio responding to a question about Univision anchor Jorge Ramos' comment to Tucker Carlson on Fox News that whites would become a majority-minority demographic in America by 2044, a point Ramos used to make the argument that it is a multiracial country.Also he concluded the interview by recommending that listeners read the novel, "The Camp of the Saints," by French author Jean Raspail which is, I believe, Bannon's favorite book.
"Jorge Ramos' stock in trade is identifying and trying to drive wedges between race," King told Iowa radio host Jan Mickelson on 1040 WHO. "Race and ethnicity, I should say to be more correct. When you start accentuating the differences, then you start ending up with people that are at each other's throats. And he's adding up Hispanics and blacks into what he predicts will be in greater number than whites in America. I will predict that Hispanics and the blacks will be fighting each other before that happens."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Maddow just said the fact that someone handed over the return may be "the most important part of this story."
posted by Coventry at 6:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 6:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Starting to think the real story here is how easy it is to scare Trump.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
Time for the Rachel Maddow shaggy dog politics hour.
posted by peeedro at 6:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 6:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
OMG Rachel get to the point.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Also he concluded the interview by recommending that listeners read the novel, "The Camp of the Saints," by French author Jean Raspail which is, I believe, Bannon's favorite book.
I didn't think he could top the "other people's babies" comment, but recommending Camp of the motherfucking Saints does so. Wow.
posted by dhens at 6:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
I didn't think he could top the "other people's babies" comment, but recommending Camp of the motherfucking Saints does so. Wow.
posted by dhens at 6:04 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Millions of people unfamiliar with Rachel's format are losing their minds on Twitter right now.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [49 favorites]
Maddow is Maddowing. That combined with the "these being handed over may be the most important part of the story" comment makes me think we're waiting on a Nothingburger.
posted by jammer at 6:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by jammer at 6:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
For those who are not watching live, they're giving some background on presidential tax return disclosures and how Trump's "audit" explanation actually makes no sense.
posted by insectosaurus at 6:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by insectosaurus at 6:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of social media and the mainstream media and how these decisions get made and what other factors are in play (like potential sources or people approached for comment spilling the beans) - but I wonder how different this might have gone if Maddow had waited until her show was underway to tweet about what she had;no time for an attempt at a pre-emptive strike.
posted by nubs at 6:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by nubs at 6:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Media Corporate Jihad
Tell us how you really feel, Hannity. Is NBC a branch of Al Qaeda?
posted by dis_integration at 6:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Tell us how you really feel, Hannity. Is NBC a branch of Al Qaeda?
posted by dis_integration at 6:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is why I can't really watch Maddow anymore. She's great and stuff but ain't nobody got time for this.
posted by Justinian at 6:07 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:07 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
Rachel Maddow likes to live in an alternate reality where the Internet didn't turn us all into goldfish.
I'd like to live in that reality too.
posted by ocschwar at 6:08 PM on March 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
I'd like to live in that reality too.
posted by ocschwar at 6:08 PM on March 14, 2017 [35 favorites]
I mean, but for the fact that Twitter is insane and everyone is crazy twitchy now, she really didn't launch that much of a pre-emptive strike. She teased it with a tweet like an hour before air, but people are acting like she's been hyping this as a primetime special for a year and rented out stadia in every major city so everyone can watch it together.
posted by zachlipton at 6:08 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:08 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
I didn't think he could top the "other people's babies" comment, but recommending Camp of the motherfucking Saints does so. Wow.
Who wants to start a betting pool on how long we have before King rolls up into Congress wearing a swastika flag pin?
posted by tobascodagama at 6:08 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Who wants to start a betting pool on how long we have before King rolls up into Congress wearing a swastika flag pin?
posted by tobascodagama at 6:08 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
FOR THE LOVE OF PETE SPIT IT OUT LADY
posted by photoslob at 6:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by photoslob at 6:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
1040 forms or 1040 EZ?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
people are acting like she's been hyping this as a primetime special for a year and rented out stadia in every major city so everyone can watch it together.
Well where are you watching it, then?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well where are you watching it, then?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
While Maddow continues to Maddow, The Daily Beast just published their story: Report: Trump’s 2005 Taxes Revealed. Go read.
posted by zachlipton at 6:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
6:10 pm PST. so glad I made the extra stop to get ice cream.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 6:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
makes me think we're waiting on a nothingburger.
Eh. Nothing Maddow reveals tonight will drive Trump from the WH tomorrow. But piece by piece is the way journalism works. Everything is part of a case.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [42 favorites]
Eh. Nothing Maddow reveals tonight will drive Trump from the WH tomorrow. But piece by piece is the way journalism works. Everything is part of a case.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [42 favorites]
I mean, but for the fact that Twitter is insane and everyone is crazy twitchy now, she really didn't launch that much of a pre-emptive strike.
Yes she did. She did announce at 4:30 ish on twitter that she had Trumps taxes and then a more tamed down tweet about an hour (?) before her show. So yes she hyped it bigly and if this tanks she's gonna own it.
posted by futz at 6:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yes she did. She did announce at 4:30 ish on twitter that she had Trumps taxes and then a more tamed down tweet about an hour (?) before her show. So yes she hyped it bigly and if this tanks she's gonna own it.
posted by futz at 6:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Daily Beast says it's just the first two pages.
posted by diogenes at 6:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 6:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Daily Beast preview doesn't look very exciting.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:14 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by schadenfrau at 6:14 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Shorter 99% of people watching this right now.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Top line is Trump paying just $5.3 million in regular tax on more than $150 million in income, but getting hit with $31 million on alternative minimum tax. That's relevant since Trump has called to scrap the AMT along with other proposed reforms. Just the first two pages, so no details that might get into the kind of stuff Maddow is talking about now. He continued to benefit from the massive loss he declared in 1995.
posted by zachlipton at 6:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
The meat is allegedly here but even though it's hosted on a CDN I'm getting a 522 error.
posted by dis_integration at 6:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dis_integration at 6:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
"It is totally illegal to steal and publish tax returns,” the White House statement read. “The dishonest media can continue to make this part of their agenda, while the President will focus on his"
Trump just gave his blessing to continue to find and publish more.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trump just gave his blessing to continue to find and publish more.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Like you gotta go multiregion and load balanced if you're posting Trump tax returns, dude.
posted by dis_integration at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Daily Beast preview doesn't look very exciting.
Indeed, and knowing the reveal, this Maddow intro is ridiculous.
posted by diogenes at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Indeed, and knowing the reveal, this Maddow intro is ridiculous.
posted by diogenes at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ugh. She has nothing.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017
let's hope Maddow has something better than The Daily Beast, which has nothing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is he trying to scoop Maddow? What on earth. We've asked for this information a thousand times; you don't get to release it 30 minutes before someone scoops you and claim you're in the right.
Obviously they were always going to release the 2005 returns today. They started the process the day after the election.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Obviously they were always going to release the 2005 returns today. They started the process the day after the election.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
OMG all these rhetorical questions and I'm very sure the two pages she has are not going to answer any of them
posted by blue suede stockings at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by blue suede stockings at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Charles Pierce: This Level of Corruption Is Unprecedented in the Modern History of the Presidency. And it's threatening our democracy.
There is a level of intellectual—and, perhaps, literal—corruption that is unprecedented in the modern history of the presidency and that is a genuine and unique threat to democratic institutions that are the objects of destructive contempt. The man ran on chaos. He won on chaos. And now he's governing on chaos. The checks and balances and safety valves of the Constitution—the things that, well, constitute—the immune system of this self-governing republic are facing a threat that is as different as it is lethal.The Executive Branch Is About to Be 'Reorganized' into Oblivion. Steve Bannon's time has come.
On Monday, not long after the CBO numbers lit the entire healthcare debate aflame again, he made good on his threat. He signed the "Comprehensive Plan For Reorganizing The Executive Branch." I didn't like the sound of this at the time, and it sounds even worse now that it's here.posted by homunculus at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
Quite simply, this empowers the president* and his advisers simply to eviscerate the federal agencies that might inconvenience them by actually acting like they're part of the government or something. Not long ago, the president*'s plans for drastic budgetary cuts in discretionary spending leaked. People howled. (The Coast Guard? Really?). This latest move impresses me most as a backup plan in case those cuts don't fly in Congress. And considering that the White House really is being run by Steve Bannon, last heir to House Harkonnen and destroyer of the administrative state, it seems likely that this is the fundamental purpose behind the order.
Is this her Geraldo moment? fucking ugh.
posted by futz at 6:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by futz at 6:18 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
oh god it's like Paul Harvey... And now the rest of the story...
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I guarantee you multiple political cartoonists are already half done with drawings mashing up Maddow showing Trump's 2005 tax return with Gerardo Rivera opening Al Capone's vault.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
At first glance it would appear to be worse than nothing. It establishes that he paid a lot of money in taxes, and gives him the opportunity to be the victim and say waah they stole my taxes and they're out to get mee, which even people who aren't necessarily in his corner might believe.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:19 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Executive Branch Is About to Be 'Reorganized' into Oblivion. Steve Bannon's time has come.
Seriously, this is the thing that has me FREAKED THE FUCK OUT right now and I do not feel like I see any coverage of it anywhere.
Whatever Maddow has in his 2005 taxes, it's not gonna be much, and it's just gonna be another piece of this vast Russia puzzle, which - while it's certainly true and a serious danger to the country - is also so broad and complex that most people will never understand it.
posted by dnash at 6:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Seriously, this is the thing that has me FREAKED THE FUCK OUT right now and I do not feel like I see any coverage of it anywhere.
Whatever Maddow has in his 2005 taxes, it's not gonna be much, and it's just gonna be another piece of this vast Russia puzzle, which - while it's certainly true and a serious danger to the country - is also so broad and complex that most people will never understand it.
posted by dnash at 6:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
WHY ARE WE ON COMMERCIAL BREAK
posted by sciatrix at 6:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by sciatrix at 6:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
If the story is nothing then why would the WH and Hannity be so upset? She better have something good.
posted by gucci mane at 6:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by gucci mane at 6:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maddow's totally like, "u mad bro?" to the internet right now.
She doesn't care if someone scooped her. She gives context. She thinks it's important.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
She doesn't care if someone scooped her. She gives context. She thinks it's important.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
It establishes that he paid a lot of money in taxes
Does it? I calculate that at 25%, and I'm wondering if that $150 million is just taxable income, in which case his real tax rate is even lower.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Does it? I calculate that at 25%, and I'm wondering if that $150 million is just taxable income, in which case his real tax rate is even lower.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Why the HELL did she tweet that she had Trump's taxes?! What a joke.
(Meta Seriously)
posted by futz at 6:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
(Meta Seriously)
posted by futz at 6:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
but for the fact that Twitter is insane and everyone is crazy twitchy now, she really didn't launch that much of a pre-emptive strike.
Sorry, my attempted point was that the WH wouldn't have time for an attempt to pre-empt the story.
But the hype this got is crazy; it is a reflection of the fact that everyone is looking for the "silver bullet" to bring him down. There is no "silver bullet", but I think hyping a story this way just reinforces the notion and potentially gets in the way of the incremental accumulation of information that is needed in this fight - because when it isn't the silver bullet, we turn away and wait for the next one that might be it.
posted by nubs at 6:22 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sorry, my attempted point was that the WH wouldn't have time for an attempt to pre-empt the story.
But the hype this got is crazy; it is a reflection of the fact that everyone is looking for the "silver bullet" to bring him down. There is no "silver bullet", but I think hyping a story this way just reinforces the notion and potentially gets in the way of the incremental accumulation of information that is needed in this fight - because when it isn't the silver bullet, we turn away and wait for the next one that might be it.
posted by nubs at 6:22 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
I've got to say that I agree with this tweet: "Whatever comes of this, watching journalists tweet "SAY IT ALREADY" while Maddow provides context is problematic."
It doesn't sound like there's a ton to this story here, and I realize that turns into overhyping quickly, but taking the time to talk through the context is a good thing, and snarking about that 140 characters at a time is unhelpful.
posted by zachlipton at 6:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
It doesn't sound like there's a ton to this story here, and I realize that turns into overhyping quickly, but taking the time to talk through the context is a good thing, and snarking about that 140 characters at a time is unhelpful.
posted by zachlipton at 6:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
That's what she was insinuating in the introduction, right? That Trump has 'leaked' this to muddy the waters and reduce the credibility of the news orgs. Killian documents (or 'Rathergate') style.
posted by postagepaid at 6:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by postagepaid at 6:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ergh. Did these people ever hear of the story of the boy who cried wolf? Sure, you've obtained this information, get it out there to point up the fact that he hasn't released any returns. But all this hype for nothing just plays into the "nothing to see here" narrative.
posted by Preserver at 6:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Preserver at 6:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
You broke my heart, Maddow. You should've just let this stuff drop on the web and talked about it later.
posted by dis_integration at 6:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 6:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ugh. She has nothing.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
posted by octobersurprise at 6:24 PM on March 14, 2017
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
posted by octobersurprise at 6:24 PM on March 14, 2017
I remember back in the 80s when I was making under 10,000 a year and I saw a form titled Alternative Minimum Income Tax and thought that must be for me. Nope. It was for millionaires.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:24 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
@billyeichner: Trump won cause while an intelligent woman was trying to tell us about Russian ties u complained about her presentation & here we are again
posted by rewil at 6:25 PM on March 14, 2017 [82 favorites]
posted by rewil at 6:25 PM on March 14, 2017 [82 favorites]
That's what she was insinuating in the introduction, right? That Trump has 'leaked' this to muddy the waters and reduce the credibility of the news orgs. Killian documents (or 'Rathergate') style.
Wait...what? Then why on earth would she have teased this as a reveal of the documents that EVERYONE ON THE FUCKING PLANET WANTS TO SEE
posted by saturday_morning at 6:25 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait...what? Then why on earth would she have teased this as a reveal of the documents that EVERYONE ON THE FUCKING PLANET WANTS TO SEE
posted by saturday_morning at 6:25 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Once again the broadcast media shoots itself in the foot. This feeds directly into the narrative of "dishonest media." Fuck.
posted by photoslob at 6:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by photoslob at 6:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
David Cay Johnson did say on Maddow he thinks that the Melania girl on girl pictures might have come from DJT himself.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ahahahaha, David Cay Johnson suggested that DJT leaked it himself! That's kind of glorious.
posted by TwoStride at 6:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 6:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
@meakoopa "a thousand thinkpieces draft and undraft themselves about male impatience when a competent woman is talking"
posted by dnash at 6:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by dnash at 6:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
Why the hell are all of you moaning and complaining about actual context? Many Americans are overwhelmed and having a hard time following or even just hiding from news right now; getting this context is actually a pretty important time to get it across. Moreover, dropping the "hey we have tax related stuff" when she did got us all to tune in and listen to the full story, not just scanning down to the bit we did on the Daily Beast story. This stuff is why people trust her: because she brings context and helps people understand what is happening.
I mean I get we're all impatient, but I want the context from experts about what this is likely to reveal about his finances and what it means. I want the next piece of this puzzle. And I'm willing to wait for it without bitching it's not better. It's certainly better than not having it is!
posted by sciatrix at 6:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [64 favorites]
I mean I get we're all impatient, but I want the context from experts about what this is likely to reveal about his finances and what it means. I want the next piece of this puzzle. And I'm willing to wait for it without bitching it's not better. It's certainly better than not having it is!
posted by sciatrix at 6:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [64 favorites]
>>It establishes that he paid a lot of money in taxes
>Does it? I calculate that at 25%, and I'm wondering if that $150 million is just taxable income, in which case his real tax rate is even lower.
Yeah, but half the country already believes that taxation is inherently bad, those billionaires earned that money by working hard, it's mean to take it and give it to welfare cheats who use their food stamps to buy iPads. Some people might be pissed off at a billionaire president who paid no taxes and took away their health insurance. He paid 31 million dollars? Story's over.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:28 PM on March 14, 2017
>Does it? I calculate that at 25%, and I'm wondering if that $150 million is just taxable income, in which case his real tax rate is even lower.
Yeah, but half the country already believes that taxation is inherently bad, those billionaires earned that money by working hard, it's mean to take it and give it to welfare cheats who use their food stamps to buy iPads. Some people might be pissed off at a billionaire president who paid no taxes and took away their health insurance. He paid 31 million dollars? Story's over.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:28 PM on March 14, 2017
Maggie Haberman points out that Trump must have written part of that White House statement himself, because "totally."
Much as I want to be disappointed, this isn't nothing. It's not a lot, but there's some good news here. Somebody is mailing out Trump's tax returns to reporters, and that's significant (whether it was Trump himself or someone else). It also just blew up the entire "under audit" argument, since the White House was happy to confirm the top-line numbers on this document tonight.
posted by zachlipton at 6:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
Much as I want to be disappointed, this isn't nothing. It's not a lot, but there's some good news here. Somebody is mailing out Trump's tax returns to reporters, and that's significant (whether it was Trump himself or someone else). It also just blew up the entire "under audit" argument, since the White House was happy to confirm the top-line numbers on this document tonight.
posted by zachlipton at 6:28 PM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
I didn't see this myself, but someone on twitter just noted that the returns had "client copy" stamped on them, anyone else notice?
posted by waitingtoderail at 6:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by waitingtoderail at 6:29 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Johnston doing a good job methodically explaining than DJT paid less in taxes that poor people and dual-income upper-middle-class people as well.
posted by TwoStride at 6:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 6:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
the context
What some call context, others see as bait. The context would be great if any of it linked up to what came afterwards. But it's sounding like there isn't much of a connection. Nothing in these pages that links Trump to Russian influence. Just rich guy bullshit.
posted by dis_integration at 6:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
What some call context, others see as bait. The context would be great if any of it linked up to what came afterwards. But it's sounding like there isn't much of a connection. Nothing in these pages that links Trump to Russian influence. Just rich guy bullshit.
posted by dis_integration at 6:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
We're also at the point where a guy making $150 million in a year paying 24% is a nothingburger. I mean, it's not new, but that should be outrageous in and of itself.
posted by zachlipton at 6:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
I've got to say that I agree with this tweet: "Whatever comes of this, watching journalists tweet "SAY IT ALREADY" while Maddow provides context is problematic."
It doesn't sound like there's a ton to this story here, and I realize that turns into overhyping quickly, but taking the time to talk through the context is a good thing, and snarking about that 140 characters at a time is unhelpful.
True...but there is also a legitimate criticism when a journalist tries to give so much context up front that they bury the lede 15 grafs (or in this case, minutes) down.
posted by darkstar at 6:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
It doesn't sound like there's a ton to this story here, and I realize that turns into overhyping quickly, but taking the time to talk through the context is a good thing, and snarking about that 140 characters at a time is unhelpful.
True...but there is also a legitimate criticism when a journalist tries to give so much context up front that they bury the lede 15 grafs (or in this case, minutes) down.
posted by darkstar at 6:30 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
So for me the "context" is the obvious, "This is why we need the President's tax forms." (That was the first 20 minutes of this broadcast.) And it's obvious to me because it's all stuff I've heard/read before since well before the election. These were questions raised in the debates, if you didn't bother to follow the most basic points in the media. And her presentation of this involved a lot of hot bait teasers and a lot of padding out that seemed to get a bit desperate to fill air time.
I mean, we got a massive investigation plus followup plus debate attention ALREADY on, "rich people like Trump don't pay as much taxes as you do, and sometimes they don't pay any."
posted by blue suede stockings at 6:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean, we got a massive investigation plus followup plus debate attention ALREADY on, "rich people like Trump don't pay as much taxes as you do, and sometimes they don't pay any."
posted by blue suede stockings at 6:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't have a problem with context I have an issue with the melodrama. It's the same with Olberman. Also, as a former print journalist, anyone who calls themselves a journalist bloviating on television makes me nuts.
posted by photoslob at 6:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by photoslob at 6:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
I could listen to David Cay Johnston all day long.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
And the gentleman she's interviewing is pointing out how much of his taxes he's paying compared to people with vastly smaller incomes, in a way that the rest of us can actually understand, despite his astronomically larger income. And explaining what he should have paid without the AMT and what he paid with it, and also how he benefited.
This is valuable information many of us didn't have a reason to focus on before.
posted by sciatrix at 6:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [38 favorites]
This is valuable information many of us didn't have a reason to focus on before.
posted by sciatrix at 6:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [38 favorites]
The context would be great if any of it linked up to what came afterwards.
Yeah, it isn't really context if it's unrelated to your scoop. It was hype.
posted by diogenes at 6:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, it isn't really context if it's unrelated to your scoop. It was hype.
posted by diogenes at 6:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Right, context was the description the AMT, Trump's desire to eliminate it, and what that would have meant for his taxes. Hype is all the stuff about "his taxes COULD show us..." about stuff that turn out not to be in his taxes.
posted by Justinian at 6:34 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:34 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
What some call context, others see as bait.
And what some call bait, others see as literally what Maddow does all the time. It's a style many find annoying, to the extent I joked that this was going to happen, but it's her style, and she's handling this one the same way her show normally operates.
posted by zachlipton at 6:34 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
And what some call bait, others see as literally what Maddow does all the time. It's a style many find annoying, to the extent I joked that this was going to happen, but it's her style, and she's handling this one the same way her show normally operates.
posted by zachlipton at 6:34 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
AMT is not something the average American cares about. They could have done this all without the returns. Ok 90%
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:34 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:34 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm not saying that what Maddow and Johnston are talking about isn't important. I'm just saying that wrapping it around a non-existent bombshell reveal is problematic.
posted by diogenes at 6:34 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 6:34 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
If her original tweet had been more honest she wouldn't be getting a lot of this criticism.
posted by futz at 6:35 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by futz at 6:35 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's not bait unless you have never seen Maddow before. She never claimed there was going to be a bombshell reveal of anything.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
And what some call bait, others see as literally what Maddow does all the time. It's a style many find annoying, to the extent I joked that this was going to happen, but it's her style, and she's handling this one the same way her show normally operates.
This is totally true, and like I said earlier it's why I can't really watch anymore. But I didn't mean to imply she was doing something different here than she always does.
posted by Justinian at 6:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is totally true, and like I said earlier it's why I can't really watch anymore. But I didn't mean to imply she was doing something different here than she always does.
posted by Justinian at 6:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
If her original tweet had been more honest she wouldn't be getting a lot of this criticism
"I've got the first 2 pages of Trump's 2005 1040" fits just fine in 140 characters.
posted by diogenes at 6:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
"I've got the first 2 pages of Trump's 2005 1040" fits just fine in 140 characters.
posted by diogenes at 6:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
> If her original tweet had been more honest
The text of the original tweet, in its entirety:
"BREAKING: We've got Trump tax returns. Tonight, 9pm ET. MSNBC. (Seriously)."
Please point out where the dishonest part is.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
The text of the original tweet, in its entirety:
"BREAKING: We've got Trump tax returns. Tonight, 9pm ET. MSNBC. (Seriously)."
Please point out where the dishonest part is.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think you're overestimating the amount of cognitive capacity a lot of Americans, including Americans who care very strongly about this, have to devote to the tax story specifically without a bit of cues to remind us of context. I also think you're underestimating the sheer fatigue of the Trump presidency on many of us; these days I'm desperately trying to keep up with massive swarms of informations from multiple outlets on top of, y'know, my actual day job. I don't really think there is a way to get people's attention about the tax thing right now that isn't going to raise hopes and get a whole lot of people massively excited and interested.
Seriously, how would you have framed this?
posted by sciatrix at 6:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Seriously, how would you have framed this?
posted by sciatrix at 6:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Eichenwald is pointing out that the income numbers here don't match up with his net worth claims (now there's a shocker for you). $150 million is a pretty paltry rate of return on the billions he claimed to be worth at the time.
posted by zachlipton at 6:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
It's not bait unless you have never seen Maddow before. She never claimed there was going to be a bombshell reveal of anything.
What do you call this?
"BREAKING: We've got Trump tax returns. Tonight, 9pm ET. MSNBC.
(Seriously)."
posted by diogenes at 6:38 PM on March 14, 2017
What do you call this?
"BREAKING: We've got Trump tax returns. Tonight, 9pm ET. MSNBC.
(Seriously)."
posted by diogenes at 6:38 PM on March 14, 2017
"I've got the first 2 pages of Trump's 2005 1040" fits just fine in 140 characters.
That's not how ratings work, of course, and also, god forbid anyone sit through a 20 minute lesson on what's actually happening in this country.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
That's not how ratings work, of course, and also, god forbid anyone sit through a 20 minute lesson on what's actually happening in this country.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
If it doesn't look like an own-goal to you, and wasn't technically an own-goal, but the other side spins it successfully as an own-goal to people you want to reach with that form of media then it was a fucking own-goal.
Hopefully something exciting actually comes out of this but as it looks like nothing that will energize the formerly un-energized I'm off this hype-train.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hopefully something exciting actually comes out of this but as it looks like nothing that will energize the formerly un-energized I'm off this hype-train.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
This gets the tax returns issue back into the news, at least.
posted by uosuaq at 6:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 6:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
What do you call this?
It was pretty straightforward. She even SAID at the top of the story that the leak itself was the most important part. Internet freaking out on her for no reason.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
It was pretty straightforward. She even SAID at the top of the story that the leak itself was the most important part. Internet freaking out on her for no reason.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
If it doesn't look like an own-goal to you, and wasn't technically an own-goal, but the other side spins it successfully as an own-goal to people you want to reach with that form of media then it was a fucking own-goal.
What do you mean 'other side'? Looks to me like the Left is spinning it as an own-goal just fine all on its own, no help needed from the Right.
posted by sciatrix at 6:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
What do you mean 'other side'? Looks to me like the Left is spinning it as an own-goal just fine all on its own, no help needed from the Right.
posted by sciatrix at 6:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
A more honest spin: "We've got 2 pages of a Trump 1040 from '05. Here's why we need more."
posted by blue suede stockings at 6:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by blue suede stockings at 6:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
That's not how ratings work
Oh, sorry, I thought we were talking about journalism.
posted by diogenes at 6:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh, sorry, I thought we were talking about journalism.
posted by diogenes at 6:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
If her original tweet had been more honest
Do you not understand that Twitter is a hype & publicity machine? Any media savvy person should have expected precisely this when she posted that. Hoping for more is fine, but actual expectations were exactly this.
posted by dnash at 6:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Do you not understand that Twitter is a hype & publicity machine? Any media savvy person should have expected precisely this when she posted that. Hoping for more is fine, but actual expectations were exactly this.
posted by dnash at 6:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Boy, we sure do like to hate on smart women who explain things thoroughly, don't we.
posted by palomar at 6:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [73 favorites]
posted by palomar at 6:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [73 favorites]
Wouldn't the handful of people in the world who could possibly produce Trump's 2005 1040 be people who have access to more than that?
posted by klarck at 6:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by klarck at 6:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
CLIENT COPY.
He leaked it.
Jesus, if that's the case-- fuck all of this, as someone headed for a death pool in the Ryan plan. Fuck the amount of hype and noise and breathless airtime deliberately whipped up on this right now.
posted by blue suede stockings at 6:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
He leaked it.
Jesus, if that's the case-- fuck all of this, as someone headed for a death pool in the Ryan plan. Fuck the amount of hype and noise and breathless airtime deliberately whipped up on this right now.
posted by blue suede stockings at 6:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's not how ratings work, of course
Your credibility is damaged if you don't follow through though. Her show isn't Fox News or the Enquirer. We expect msnbc to deliver.
You'd have to be an idiot not to realize what everyone would take away from that tweet.
posted by futz at 6:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Your credibility is damaged if you don't follow through though. Her show isn't Fox News or the Enquirer. We expect msnbc to deliver.
You'd have to be an idiot not to realize what everyone would take away from that tweet.
posted by futz at 6:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
he paid $38 million in taxes, which sounds like a HUGE amount of money to most people.
I disagree--Johnston is modelling exactly how you explain it to people, when he was all, "My wife and I earn $400,000 a year. That is what Trump earned EVERY DAY. We paid more in taxes. That is not right."
posted by TwoStride at 6:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
I disagree--Johnston is modelling exactly how you explain it to people, when he was all, "My wife and I earn $400,000 a year. That is what Trump earned EVERY DAY. We paid more in taxes. That is not right."
posted by TwoStride at 6:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
Yeah, it's going to be remarkable watching people spend the rest of the week arguing over whether or not Maddow's news was too hyped. Because that's the real issue here. (I mean, I know it's the internet and people are gonna internet, but we're not talking about a record drop here.)
posted by octobersurprise at 6:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 6:42 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
So Trump leaked his own tax returns?
posted by gucci mane at 6:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 6:43 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
CLIENT COPY.
He leaked it.
Bannon is swirling his finger in a glass of gin and giggling right now.
He's just fucking with us.
posted by photoslob at 6:44 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
He leaked it.
Bannon is swirling his finger in a glass of gin and giggling right now.
He's just fucking with us.
posted by photoslob at 6:44 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, if your takeaway from this was "bullshit hype machine", I don't think she's the problem.
posted by palomar at 6:44 PM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by palomar at 6:44 PM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
So Trump leaked his own tax returns?
Can't prove it, but jeez, Melania? Why only the two pages?
posted by waitingtoderail at 6:44 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Can't prove it, but jeez, Melania? Why only the two pages?
posted by waitingtoderail at 6:44 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Comparing this shit to something like John Oliver's show which has the same format but more so, and which MeFi as a whole loves, yeah, I'm going to say I think gender is a factor here when I roll my eyes!
Christ on a crutch.
posted by sciatrix at 6:45 PM on March 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
Christ on a crutch.
posted by sciatrix at 6:45 PM on March 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
Maddow putting out a tweet about the topic of her show tonight offends me far less than the fact that he paid way less of his income in taxes than plenty of families not making hundreds of millions of dollars.
posted by zachlipton at 6:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [43 favorites]
There are other people who would have a copy of the client copy. Besides lawyers/accountants etc., the obvious people are his wives and ex-wives and their lawyers and accountants. Trump would have been paying child support (presumably, I hope) and may have been required to hand over tax returns to determine the amount, for example. I don't think it follows from "client copy" that he leaked it himself.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
How does the fact that it says "CLIENT COPY" means he leaked it? Do you think he could even find his own tax forms? What it means is that the IRS didn't leak it.
posted by uosuaq at 6:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 6:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Boy, we sure do like to hate on smart women who explain things thoroughly, don't we.
Uh, no? I'd be ripping anyone to shreds who did this. I expect this from Breitbart or FOX.
posted by futz at 6:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Uh, no? I'd be ripping anyone to shreds who did this. I expect this from Breitbart or FOX.
posted by futz at 6:46 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Comparing this shit to something like John Oliver's show which has the same format but more so, and which MeFi as a whole loves, yeah, I'm going to say I think gender is a factor here when I roll my eyes!
John Oliver's format is jokes. Also I get bored when he gets preachy for his main segment, too.
posted by dis_integration at 6:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
John Oliver's format is jokes. Also I get bored when he gets preachy for his main segment, too.
posted by dis_integration at 6:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Seriously, can we go to the actual leaked documents and what they mean instead of moaning about Maddow's twitter choices now?
Because christ on a fucking crutch, you people.
posted by sciatrix at 6:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [39 favorites]
Because christ on a fucking crutch, you people.
posted by sciatrix at 6:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [39 favorites]
It was so irresponsible of Maddow to let me pin all my hopes and dreams of cathartic impeachment-vengeance on her accurate promotional tweet
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [72 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [72 favorites]
Meh. Trump probably hides a lot of his income from taxation using the same sort of schemes other super-rich folks do, so that it never even makes it to his 1040. Venal, but hardly earth shattering.
Good for Maddow, I guess, for using a fairly clickbaity tweet to get more people to tune into her segment on Trump's opposition to the AMT.
I expect Maddow's bit to be little more than a distraction for the next 24 hours, which is something of a pleasant diversion from debating just how many millions of people will lose their health care, and how many thousands of people will die, due to TrumpCare.
posted by darkstar at 6:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Good for Maddow, I guess, for using a fairly clickbaity tweet to get more people to tune into her segment on Trump's opposition to the AMT.
I expect Maddow's bit to be little more than a distraction for the next 24 hours, which is something of a pleasant diversion from debating just how many millions of people will lose their health care, and how many thousands of people will die, due to TrumpCare.
posted by darkstar at 6:47 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Man, I missed the hype. Was there a print campaign to promote tonight's show? Internet ads? Cross-channel promos on other NBC properties on the days leading up to now?
Because there's some fucking hyperbole in the air, and I think it's coming from this thread.
posted by rewil at 6:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Because there's some fucking hyperbole in the air, and I think it's coming from this thread.
posted by rewil at 6:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Yeah, it's going to be remarkable watching people spend the rest of the week arguing over whether or not Maddow's news was too hyped.
I'm wondering if maybe, if people want to continue this discussion about hype vs. context in political journalism, then we should have a separate FPP about it? And leave this thread for the larger issues of the Trump presidency?
posted by saturday_morning at 6:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm wondering if maybe, if people want to continue this discussion about hype vs. context in political journalism, then we should have a separate FPP about it? And leave this thread for the larger issues of the Trump presidency?
posted by saturday_morning at 6:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Do they usually put a countdown timer on screen before non-bombshells?
On MSNBC, yep, all the time. Anytime one of the name shows is doing a special episode, they usually have a countdown. Like I think Chris Hayes's "Bernie does a townhall in West Virginia" thing from last night may have had one?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
On MSNBC, yep, all the time. Anytime one of the name shows is doing a special episode, they usually have a countdown. Like I think Chris Hayes's "Bernie does a townhall in West Virginia" thing from last night may have had one?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's all a distraction. Which means there is no distraction - it's all part of a whole.
posted by Artw at 6:49 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:49 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Countdown timers are used across the platforms. Very common.
posted by futz at 6:50 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by futz at 6:50 PM on March 14, 2017
Sigh. I think this was just a reminder that we all want an easy way out, a quick fix, for this presidency. myself very much included. But the real world requires the slow way.
posted by samthemander at 6:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 6:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [36 favorites]
Yes, but her accurate tweets!
posted by valkane at 6:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by valkane at 6:50 PM on March 14, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm a commercial real estate banker, and I work with client tax returns every day, so it could have come from one of his many banks. (And it's how I knew the second she said she had his 1040 that there wouldn't be anything there - without the schedules, notes, K-1s, etc. you really can't glean a ton of info from just the 1040 without the supporting documentation.)
posted by skycrashesdown at 6:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by skycrashesdown at 6:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [23 favorites]
Well that got my hopes up for nothing, and if she didn't realize it would, then she's not the journalist I take her for. So well played, Maddox, I suppose.
posted by corb at 6:52 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by corb at 6:52 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's just so frustrating that it's proving so difficult to break this man. WHY?! He's just a rubber-mask short of being a Scooby-Doo cartoon villain! How is he still winning!?
posted by wabbittwax at 6:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 6:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
I mean, to be fair, this administration keeps producing executive orders with approximately the same level of drama as a reality TV show, only now the consequences are all our lives. IN SOVIET AMERICA REALITY TV STARS YOU?
posted by sciatrix at 6:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by sciatrix at 6:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
do you actually know anybody who has had to do without insurance? Do you know what their medical care looks like?
Coming in late to this, but...hi. I lost my job as part of the whole late-2001 dot-com bubble burst and the recession that was occurring around that time. Continuing my insurance would have cost far more than I was getting from unemployment, and I wound up being unemployed for nine months.
Guess when I first found out that I have a predisposition to gout.
Let me tell you, I pretty much singlehandedly propped up ibuprofen sales at my local pharmacy for a couple of weeks.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:57 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Coming in late to this, but...hi. I lost my job as part of the whole late-2001 dot-com bubble burst and the recession that was occurring around that time. Continuing my insurance would have cost far more than I was getting from unemployment, and I wound up being unemployed for nine months.
Guess when I first found out that I have a predisposition to gout.
Let me tell you, I pretty much singlehandedly propped up ibuprofen sales at my local pharmacy for a couple of weeks.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:57 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, it was nice to have a real-time collective MeFi news-watching experience that had some positive anticipation associated with it, anyway.
That hasn't happened since Nov. 9 at about 8pm Central by my reckoning.
Now back to our regularly scheduled, ongoing horror show.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:57 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
That hasn't happened since Nov. 9 at about 8pm Central by my reckoning.
Now back to our regularly scheduled, ongoing horror show.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:57 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
Mod note: Folks, if you want to discuss how Metafilter is discussing how the internet is discussing how Maddow discussed her own show, MetaTalk may not have enough metas in it but it is there for you. Otherwise, please move on. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:57 PM on March 14, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:57 PM on March 14, 2017 [39 favorites]
How is he still winning!?
He's being protected by both Houses of the Legislative branch. Checks and balance only check and balance when the other branches of government care more about country than party.
posted by Justinian at 6:58 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
He's being protected by both Houses of the Legislative branch. Checks and balance only check and balance when the other branches of government care more about country than party.
posted by Justinian at 6:58 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
I prepare client tax returns every day, and I agree with skycrashesdown. It's important to remember that the 1040 is the summary page - almost all the numbers there are net amounts, not gross amounts, and the backup that shows how those net amounts came to be are elsewhere.
posted by yhbc at 6:58 PM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 6:58 PM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
@BrendanNyhan Shiny object alert: There's a proposal to massively change health care policy affecting tens of millions of people. This doesn't matter.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 6:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's just so frustrating that it's proving so difficult to break this man. WHY?! He's just a rubber-mask short of being a Scooby-Doo cartoon villain! How is he still winning!?
The problem is basically that nobody has the legal ability to go after him in any way except for Congress, and they're all on his team. If we had a Democrat-led Congress or he was a Democrat himself with the current Congress, this would be over already.
The checks and balances that we all learn about in school are optional, it turns out. If one branch of the government doesn't want to check the others they don't have to, and there's nothing any of us can do about it.
posted by IAmUnaware at 6:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
The problem is basically that nobody has the legal ability to go after him in any way except for Congress, and they're all on his team. If we had a Democrat-led Congress or he was a Democrat himself with the current Congress, this would be over already.
The checks and balances that we all learn about in school are optional, it turns out. If one branch of the government doesn't want to check the others they don't have to, and there's nothing any of us can do about it.
posted by IAmUnaware at 6:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
The fact of the matter is that most of the time on the report was spent talking about what you could learn from Trump's tax returns if you actually had them. This is proof that they really didn't have anything.
I understand them wanting an audience, but if they had even added the word "partial," (because they truly did not have his tax returns) it would have made a huge difference in expectations. I don't blame Maddow personally. I suspect it's mostly all done by PR flasks and interns, but it was clearly a set up that under-delivered.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
I understand them wanting an audience, but if they had even added the word "partial," (because they truly did not have his tax returns) it would have made a huge difference in expectations. I don't blame Maddow personally. I suspect it's mostly all done by PR flasks and interns, but it was clearly a set up that under-delivered.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
I lost my job as part of the whole late-2001 dot-com bubble burst and the recession that was occurring around that time. Continuing my insurance would have cost far more than I was getting from unemployment, and I wound up being unemployed for nine months.
Guess when I first found out that I have a.
This was me, exactly, except it wasn't gout it was a chronic illnesses.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:01 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Guess when I first found out that I have a.
This was me, exactly, except it wasn't gout it was a chronic illnesses.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:01 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Apparently Wells Enterprises, makers of Blue Bunny ice cream, are a major Steve King donor. Sounds like a job for angry customer complaints!
posted by jason_steakums at 7:02 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:02 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, let's move on to what will probably be the next disappointment: Comey comin'
posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
I would just like any of these promised revelations to not end with me wanting to drink myself to death from disappointment, I guess. Well, back to your daily horror!
posted by corb at 7:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by corb at 7:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
He's just a rubber-mask short of being a Scooby-Doo cartoon villain! How is he still winning!?
1. He's really rich.
2. He's propped up by a lot of very powerful people.
3. He's backed by a worshipful throng of racist enablers.
4. The media is (generally) more interested in ad revenue than in speaking truth to power.
and
5. The kids in the Mystery Machine seem to be compelled to attack each other with about as much frequency and passion as they spend working on bringing down the villain.
posted by darkstar at 7:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [52 favorites]
1. He's really rich.
2. He's propped up by a lot of very powerful people.
3. He's backed by a worshipful throng of racist enablers.
4. The media is (generally) more interested in ad revenue than in speaking truth to power.
and
5. The kids in the Mystery Machine seem to be compelled to attack each other with about as much frequency and passion as they spend working on bringing down the villain.
posted by darkstar at 7:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [52 favorites]
People, if she'd had anything more than what was presented tonight, it wouldn't have been a Tweet saying "tune in tonight," - it would have been an immediate interruption of any regular broadcasting.
posted by dnash at 7:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by dnash at 7:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
So perhaps this is hopelessly naive but I'm reading the focus as speaking directly to the leaker: "We received this and it's as important as you thought it was. Look at the response tomorrow, PEOPLE CARE. We have no idea who leaked this. And we can't outright solicit information but per the reasons laid out in the 15-minute intro, the people need, want, and deserve more".
They said at the outset that it was legal because they didn't specifically solicit it, and the lead-in was that the leak itself was the most newsworthy part of it. If this were a TV plot it'd be validation to the source paired with the very positive airing of what could have been a test run by a cautious leaker.
posted by mireille at 7:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [37 favorites]
They said at the outset that it was legal because they didn't specifically solicit it, and the lead-in was that the leak itself was the most newsworthy part of it. If this were a TV plot it'd be validation to the source paired with the very positive airing of what could have been a test run by a cautious leaker.
posted by mireille at 7:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [37 favorites]
David Cay Johnston had the most all encompassing interview about all his journalism covering Donald Trump over the years on CSPAN, back before the election.
No one knows Trump like Johnston.
posted by readery at 7:09 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
No one knows Trump like Johnston.
posted by readery at 7:09 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Another significant part of this story is that the White House claimed that this reporting was illegal, while legal scholars say otherwise.
posted by zachlipton at 7:09 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:09 PM on March 14, 2017 [17 favorites]
Okay, so this was basically just a summary of his taxes, stamped Client Copy. Would the lawyer/accountant/ex-wife/leaker be in possession of the entire tax return? which according to him is a stack of paper three feet tall.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 7:09 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by TWinbrook8 at 7:09 PM on March 14, 2017
Internet freaking out on her for no reason.
Freaking out is what the internet does, though
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Freaking out is what the internet does, though
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:10 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Another significant part of this story is that the White House claimed that this reporting was illegal, while legal scholars say otherwise.
I mean, if Trump wrote the statement, that makes sense. He has no idea what's legal.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean, if Trump wrote the statement, that makes sense. He has no idea what's legal.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not only was this news FAKE but it was also ILLEGAL, plus it SMELLED REALLY BAD and IT WAS THE WRONG COLOR and IT DIDNT MATCH and it was also REALLY ITCHY. I'd like to return it, please.
posted by valkane at 7:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by valkane at 7:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Leaking the tax return may have been illegal. Reporting it is obviously not, and Trump is an idiot if he thinks so.
posted by Justinian at 7:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean, if Trump wrote the statement, that makes sense. He has no idea what's legal
I'm pretty sure he just shat himself, which is amusing.
posted by Artw at 7:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty sure he just shat himself, which is amusing.
posted by Artw at 7:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
until you consider his reported diet. Then it’s horrifying.
posted by nicepersonality at 7:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by nicepersonality at 7:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
I got a kick from the Hannity tweet about NBC's "Jihad" against Trump, which neglected to even mention SNL as one of the offenders, but, I also wonder if he'll ever mention that NBC is still partnering with Trump on the Apprentice TV show. Of course, if this really gets the Trump House mad at NBC's parent company Comcast, I wonder how hard the new FCC chair will work on how to eliminate net-neutrality WITHOUT letting Comcast make any money off of it... Anyway, what are the odds on "Celebrity Apprentice on FOX" next fall?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:26 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:26 PM on March 14, 2017
@BrendanNyhan Shiny object alert: There's a proposal to massively change health care policy affecting tens of millions of people. This doesn't matter.
This. 24 million people are still going to be without healthcare if it gets forced through.
posted by Talez at 7:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
This. 24 million people are still going to be without healthcare if it gets forced through.
posted by Talez at 7:26 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
I've got to say that I agree with this tweet: "Whatever comes of this, watching journalists tweet "SAY IT ALREADY" while Maddow provides context is problematic."
as opposed to whom, thecranky toddlers very serious adults who absolutely had to cling to every second of a tedious cable news program instead of waiting for it to filter through to print media to peruse at their leisure?
posted by indubitable at 7:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
as opposed to whom, the
posted by indubitable at 7:27 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
According to that Daily Beast story,
posted by mubba at 7:35 PM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
2005 was the year that Trump, a newly minted reality star, made his last big score as a real-life real estate developer, when he sold two properties, one on Manhattan’s west side and one in San Francisco, to Hong Kong investors, accounting for the lion’s share of his income that year.So it's the rosiest year in terms of Trump's income, it probably predates any income from the 2006-ish deals linked to Felix Sater & Co., and with only the first two pages, it doesn't come with any juicy details like itemized deductions or offshore holdings. However, we can no longer say we've never seen Trump's tax returns. Isn't that dandy.
posted by mubba at 7:35 PM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
I'm happy to still say we've never seen Trump's tax returns.
posted by Coventry at 7:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 7:36 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
I think we can say that Trump has never seen more of his tax returns beyond the "where do I sign?" line.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:39 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
And speaking of distraction, I suspect that responding to Donald's "Why CAN'T you arrest and prosecute everybody at NBC?!?!" will take time away from all the nasty things his Department of Injustice had planned for this week.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:45 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:45 PM on March 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
For real though I knew better than to watch news. memo to self: do not follow any "breaking news" ever.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:49 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:49 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well, tomorrow is the ides of March, so anything could happen, I guess.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Egg is on CNN right now! HI EGG.
posted by Justinian at 7:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:55 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
5. The kids in the Mystery Machine seem to be compelled to attack each other with about as much frequency and passion as they spend working on bringing down the villain.
Shaggy keeps relitigating the primary.
posted by condour75 at 7:58 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
Shaggy keeps relitigating the primary.
posted by condour75 at 7:58 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
Comey to say whether FBI probing Russia, Trump campaign by Wednesday
posted by futz at 7:59 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by futz at 7:59 PM on March 14, 2017
Meanwhile Sec. Defence James Mattis has gone offscript and told the Senate Armed Services Committee that he believes in climate change and recognizes it as a threat.
posted by adamvasco at 7:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 7:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [56 favorites]
Egg says some things that I can get behind re: his criticism of trump but he is not a good EGG for the long run. I despise just about everything he stands for.
posted by futz at 8:01 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by futz at 8:01 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
David Cay Johnston's focus on the sourcing and not the content is the key here to what happens next. If 2005 is the year that was considered leakable (before the Russian outreach began with the SoHo deal) then that draws its own line.
posted by holgate at 8:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by holgate at 8:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Trumps, they just keep coming.
Day of the Trumpids
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 8:07 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
Day of the Trumpids
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 8:07 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
David Kay Johnston is brilliant and I wish there had been more time with him on the Maddow Show. I don't think this will be the last shoe to drop on this. The timing of the tax return -2005 - re: Russian connections is super interesting.
I fucking hate donald trump.
posted by bluesky43 at 8:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
I fucking hate donald trump.
posted by bluesky43 at 8:11 PM on March 14, 2017 [16 favorites]
Uday crowing on twitter lends credit that the leak came from inside the WH. They wanted this out there to change the narrative from healthcare fail and/or Comey. Why 2005 is the next question. Chip, chip, chip away.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:15 PM on March 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
So it's the rosiest year in terms of Trump's income, it probably predates any income from the 2006-ish deals linked to Felix Sater & Co., and with only the first two pages, it doesn't come with any juicy details like itemized deductions or offshore holdings. However, we can no longer say we've never seen Trump's tax returns. Isn't that dandy.
Exactly, In fact I called a Trump leak on Twitter (where I go by @taoish) before DC Johnston mentioned it. Don't forget that the only jokes Trump banned at his roast were jokes about him not being as rich as he claimed.
Also -- the selective release of one year's taxes, the most innocuous year, is another technique that Trump copies from Bernie Sanders. It worked to quiet demands for more tax years, though it hid the years where Bernie paid his wife and stepdaughter out of campaign funds, the years they made a lot more money because Jane was president of a university, etc.
posted by msalt at 8:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
Exactly, In fact I called a Trump leak on Twitter (where I go by @taoish) before DC Johnston mentioned it. Don't forget that the only jokes Trump banned at his roast were jokes about him not being as rich as he claimed.
Also -- the selective release of one year's taxes, the most innocuous year, is another technique that Trump copies from Bernie Sanders. It worked to quiet demands for more tax years, though it hid the years where Bernie paid his wife and stepdaughter out of campaign funds, the years they made a lot more money because Jane was president of a university, etc.
posted by msalt at 8:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [13 favorites]
Burhanistan - fixed that for you.
posted by bluesky43 at 8:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 8:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
is another technique that Trump copies from Bernie Sanders
We should probably avoid non sequitur derails into relitigating the primaries, please oh please
posted by dis_integration at 8:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
We should probably avoid non sequitur derails into relitigating the primaries, please oh please
posted by dis_integration at 8:20 PM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Fwiw, I took Kellyanne Spillway's comments about microwaves to reference this MIT study
Extracting audio from visual information
Algorithm recovers speech from the vibrations of a potato-chip bag filmed through soundproof glass.
In a related note, did you know the government was recording all of your phone calls? S'crazy man.
posted by petebest at 8:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Extracting audio from visual information
Algorithm recovers speech from the vibrations of a potato-chip bag filmed through soundproof glass.
In a related note, did you know the government was recording all of your phone calls? S'crazy man.
posted by petebest at 8:21 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Like when you get the urge to scratch the I hate Bernie or Hillary was a disaster, Bernie would've won itch, count to ten and go look at doggo gifs
posted by dis_integration at 8:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 8:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [15 favorites]
Thinking about it, I'm, highly skeptical that this succeeds as a distraction from other stuff in any real sense, whether it was intended that way or not. Coming up in the next two days, we've got:
- Congress continues to explode as the healthcare of tens of millions hangs in the balance.
- The budget is announced on Thursday, and background briefings on the plan start tomorrow. There's about to be an explosion of stories about massive cuts to every part of the government, with howls of protest from every impacted group.
- Comey comin'
- He or one of his staff will inevitably say something horrible and/or ridiculous
- The Detroit/Nashville trip, Andrew Jackson lovefest, and rally
Once the budget drops, and even before that as numbers dribble out, the story will be all about the bloodbath in every government department that doesn't carry guns. I really don't see this being much of a distraction for long.
posted by zachlipton at 8:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
- Congress continues to explode as the healthcare of tens of millions hangs in the balance.
- The budget is announced on Thursday, and background briefings on the plan start tomorrow. There's about to be an explosion of stories about massive cuts to every part of the government, with howls of protest from every impacted group.
- Comey comin'
- He or one of his staff will inevitably say something horrible and/or ridiculous
- The Detroit/Nashville trip, Andrew Jackson lovefest, and rally
Once the budget drops, and even before that as numbers dribble out, the story will be all about the bloodbath in every government department that doesn't carry guns. I really don't see this being much of a distraction for long.
posted by zachlipton at 8:23 PM on March 14, 2017 [29 favorites]
Leaking a "good" tax return--instead of just releasing it--seems like a weird distraction. It just makes people wonder, huh, that was 11 years ago, what's happened since? If I was trying to prove my trustworthiness, not being willing to show what I'd been up to for the last 10 years would not do it. Kind of like a giant gap in your resume history; it's going to raise eyebrows.
posted by emjaybee at 8:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 8:31 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
A "good" tax return? Well, it's pretty good income for someone worth only a billion dollars, which is a small fraction of what he claims. And he's most sensitive about how much he's worth.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Random thought on Trump's tax returns: he claims he can't release them due to an audit and that's total bullshit in a regular audit, but would he actually be unable to release them if they were audited and what they found kicked it up a notch into being "audited" (read: "investigated") by IRS Criminal Investigation? Or if they were being looked over by IRS CI at the request of another agency's investigation into him or into his various shady partners? An ongoing investigation would seem like a situation where the IRS and other law enforcement agencies really would say no, you can't release those.
I still think it's vastly more likely that he's just straight up lying, but it's an interesting possibility.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:58 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
I still think it's vastly more likely that he's just straight up lying, but it's an interesting possibility.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:58 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
The EPA Used to Tweet About the Environment. Now It Just Tweets About Scott Pruitt.
The agency's work on climate and energy policy has slowed to a crawl, but it has been replaced with a different focus: the promotion of the new EPA administrator, Scott Pruitt. With one exception, all of the EPA's tweets and Facebook posts since Pruitt's confirmation have been about his various appearances or sharing quotes from the EPA chief or President Donald Trump. The only time the EPA tweeted about an environmental issue, it was to promote Trump's executive order attempting to roll back a Clean Water Act rule. (On Monday, outside of the three-week period we used for this analysis, the EPA finally tweeted about a local grant.
This must be so demoralizing for the EPA employees.
posted by futz at 9:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [40 favorites]
The agency's work on climate and energy policy has slowed to a crawl, but it has been replaced with a different focus: the promotion of the new EPA administrator, Scott Pruitt. With one exception, all of the EPA's tweets and Facebook posts since Pruitt's confirmation have been about his various appearances or sharing quotes from the EPA chief or President Donald Trump. The only time the EPA tweeted about an environmental issue, it was to promote Trump's executive order attempting to roll back a Clean Water Act rule. (On Monday, outside of the three-week period we used for this analysis, the EPA finally tweeted about a local grant.
This must be so demoralizing for the EPA employees.
posted by futz at 9:00 PM on March 14, 2017 [40 favorites]
On the plus side, due to the new direction the EPA is taking, Flint MI may soon have the cleanest tapwater in the United States.
posted by um at 9:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by um at 9:06 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
With cuts looming, Park Service closes Ben Franklin print shop, Jefferson’s Declaration House
David Fitzpatrick, the president of American Federation of Government Employees Local 2058, said the freeze was responsible for the shuttering of seven attractions, including Declaration House, where Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence; exhibits at the site of Ben Franklin’s home and print shop; and the home of Tadeusz Kosciuszko, the Polish military leader who served as a brigadier general in the Revolutionary War.
posted by futz at 9:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
David Fitzpatrick, the president of American Federation of Government Employees Local 2058, said the freeze was responsible for the shuttering of seven attractions, including Declaration House, where Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence; exhibits at the site of Ben Franklin’s home and print shop; and the home of Tadeusz Kosciuszko, the Polish military leader who served as a brigadier general in the Revolutionary War.
posted by futz at 9:12 PM on March 14, 2017 [19 favorites]
@theviewfromll2: Sounds like the documents Trump produced in discovery for the O'Brien litigation finally leaked.
posted by Artw at 9:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:16 PM on March 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
oh 2017 how can i hate you when you have finally brought dykes to watch out for back to me
posted by medusa at 9:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by medusa at 9:37 PM on March 14, 2017 [5 favorites]
McMaster didn't want Flynn's pick for NSC intel director, but overruled by Bannon, Kushner & Trump
Trump isn't a government, he's a regime. None of the official American government even exists, it's entirely a parallel structure, which Republicans have fully accepted. Because they love tax cuts and taking health care from people who can't afford it more than anything.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [31 favorites]
Trump isn't a government, he's a regime. None of the official American government even exists, it's entirely a parallel structure, which Republicans have fully accepted. Because they love tax cuts and taking health care from people who can't afford it more than anything.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:38 PM on March 14, 2017 [31 favorites]
Gotta have a conduit to the FSB on the council, thems the rules.
posted by Artw at 9:40 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by Artw at 9:40 PM on March 14, 2017
This is just another sign that people are realizing the potential profitability of a post-Trump left. Jill Stein buying one state recount and a dozen new sets of healing crystals was the first indication.
posted by BeginAgain at 9:40 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by BeginAgain at 9:40 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Whenever Milo Yiannopoulos is compared to Ernst Röhm it always gives me a bit of a sad. I mean, I get it. They're both fascists and also gay. But Röhm was a genuinely brave man who excelled at his chosen, albeit terrible, role. Contrast with today's fascists that go hide under their beds when they hear a loud noise in the street.
posted by um at 9:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by um at 9:41 PM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
David Cay Johnston toots his own horn at the Guardian. He's been up in Trump's grill for a long time.
[In 1988] Competitors, casino regulators and Trump’s own people told me he knew nothing of the casino business. Really? To test this, I interviewed him, making a false statement about craps. Trump incorporated my false statement into his answer – and did so again with three other questions containing false facts, which made me realise: he was just a conman.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:45 PM on March 14, 2017 [55 favorites]
As an expert witness for Whole Foods, Kellyanne Conway gave testimony that was deemed 'fundamentally flawed' and thrown out
-- In 2007, Conway — then a Republican pollster running the research firm The Polling Company — was hired as an expert witness by Whole Foods in a lawsuit filed by the Federal Trade Commission in Washington.
-- During the case, Whole Foods retained Conway to design a survey to support the testimony of David Scheffman, a former FTC official with experience testifying on behalf of companies in antitrust suits. He argued that Whole Foods and Wild Oats shoppers frequently shopped at other grocery chains and that these other supermarkets competed for the business of crossover customers.
-- Kent Van Liere, presented compelling evidence about the study's drawbacks, which the agency said suffered "serious and fatal design flaws, poor execution, and conclusions that are inconsistent with the survey's results," and failed to "meet basic standards" of survey research.
-- He said it was "very curious" that Conway's survey claimed to have interviewed respondents who were in the designated zip codes, yet included respondents who didn't live in the zip codes.
-- Further, court documents said that Scheffman didn't ultimately rely on Conway's report, despite it being conducted on his behalf and cost Whole Foods over a quarter of a million dollars
A $250,000 mistake by Kellyanne and she's still fucking up at every turn. Must be nice (emphatically not) to be her privileged ass.
posted by futz at 9:53 PM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
-- In 2007, Conway — then a Republican pollster running the research firm The Polling Company — was hired as an expert witness by Whole Foods in a lawsuit filed by the Federal Trade Commission in Washington.
-- During the case, Whole Foods retained Conway to design a survey to support the testimony of David Scheffman, a former FTC official with experience testifying on behalf of companies in antitrust suits. He argued that Whole Foods and Wild Oats shoppers frequently shopped at other grocery chains and that these other supermarkets competed for the business of crossover customers.
-- Kent Van Liere, presented compelling evidence about the study's drawbacks, which the agency said suffered "serious and fatal design flaws, poor execution, and conclusions that are inconsistent with the survey's results," and failed to "meet basic standards" of survey research.
-- He said it was "very curious" that Conway's survey claimed to have interviewed respondents who were in the designated zip codes, yet included respondents who didn't live in the zip codes.
-- Further, court documents said that Scheffman didn't ultimately rely on Conway's report, despite it being conducted on his behalf and cost Whole Foods over a quarter of a million dollars
A $250,000 mistake by Kellyanne and she's still fucking up at every turn. Must be nice (emphatically not) to be her privileged ass.
posted by futz at 9:53 PM on March 14, 2017 [18 favorites]
Only she suffered no consequences then or now.
We've got to stop grasping for the silver bullet in decades old documents. They won with this shit and worse right out in the open.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
We've got to stop grasping for the silver bullet in decades old documents. They won with this shit and worse right out in the open.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:59 PM on March 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
CNN Money: Ethics complaint filed against White House official
An ethics watchdog group says a White House official appears to have attended meetings with corporate executives earlier this year while he personally held stock in the companies.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:05 PM on March 14, 2017 [24 favorites]
The group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, filed a complaint with the White House on Tuesday.
The actual David Cay Johnston story on taxes is finally accessible (maybe, I got in once, now it's being weird), and it's a good read. It's simple and doesn't overhype it (even saying "There’s no smoking gun there, no obvious evasion, but clearly some bending of the tax laws almost to the breaking point"), explains that this shows a ridiculously low tax rate of 24%, connects the information to Trump's plans to eliminate the AMT, and even relates this information to what we know from other reports:
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
That Trump had only $103 million of his $918 million tax shelter left in 2005 also tells us something about his past income. Using up the other $815 million of negative income in the tax shelter indicates that he earned an average of $81.5 million annually during the 10 years from 1995 through 2004.If this dropped first instead of the Maddow version, or even if the website hadn't gone down in the first place, it would have hit better, I think.
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 PM on March 14, 2017 [22 favorites]
dcreport seems to run into a lot of issues when they get a lot of hits. I couldn't access the site. I'll see if it is cached.
posted by futz at 10:37 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by futz at 10:37 PM on March 14, 2017
Here it is, I hope, saved on archive.is.
DCREPORT EXCLUSIVE: Trump Earned $153 Million in 2005; He Paid $36.6 Million in Taxes
posted by futz at 10:44 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
DCREPORT EXCLUSIVE: Trump Earned $153 Million in 2005; He Paid $36.6 Million in Taxes
posted by futz at 10:44 PM on March 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
Meanwhile, Robert Costa brings us the latest palace intrigue in Trump loyalists sound alarm over ‘RyanCare,’ endangering health bill. This is a good bit that shows the various factions at work:
posted by zachlipton at 10:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Inside the White House, senior officials said they are taking note of the mounting opposition. “You can’t be so blind that you’re not seeing the outside noise,” said one adviser, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the adviser was not authorized to speak publicly.We are so far down the looking glass that someone who sounds suspiciously like Priebus is using the Post to ask Trump's friends and supporters to use their inside voices please.
A second adviser, who also requested anonymity to speak candidly, said, “We take their views seriously and we’re listening, but we do appreciate when those concerns are shared privately and with a smaller megaphone.”
posted by zachlipton at 10:48 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Contrast with today's fascists that go hide under their beds when they hear a loud noise in the street.
I guess it's part of the historical tragedy->farce sequence. But, I'm so very glad they're cowards. Especially glad their brownshirts are terrified of being punched, much less going down in a hail of glory. And very glad their side doesn't seem to have anything like the Black Bloc. Though it's kinda surprising they don't, now that I think about it.
posted by honestcoyote at 10:54 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
I guess it's part of the historical tragedy->farce sequence. But, I'm so very glad they're cowards. Especially glad their brownshirts are terrified of being punched, much less going down in a hail of glory. And very glad their side doesn't seem to have anything like the Black Bloc. Though it's kinda surprising they don't, now that I think about it.
posted by honestcoyote at 10:54 PM on March 14, 2017 [10 favorites]
Well a lot of the SA were veterans of WW1, so it makes sense they were not afraid of physical confrontation.
posted by um at 11:07 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by um at 11:07 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well a lot of the SA were veterans of WW1, so it makes sense they were not afraid of physical confrontation.
Rates of physical violence were also a lot higher in general. Corporal punishment at home and in school, police had a fairly free hand, strike-breaking, political violence on the street, glorification of nationalist violence all over Europe. All of it goes together to make a population that were used to violence in all contexts, so it's not much of a jump to go from one to any of the others.
posted by jaduncan at 11:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Rates of physical violence were also a lot higher in general. Corporal punishment at home and in school, police had a fairly free hand, strike-breaking, political violence on the street, glorification of nationalist violence all over Europe. All of it goes together to make a population that were used to violence in all contexts, so it's not much of a jump to go from one to any of the others.
posted by jaduncan at 11:17 PM on March 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
Rates of physical violence were also a lot higher in general.
Yep. And all the talk of inner-city warzones in the US distracts from how, say, the Prohibition era in the US had a homicide rate twice what it is today. (The eras that American culture goes back to again and again are ones where murder was more of a presence and gruesomely splashed on newspaper front pages.)
posted by holgate at 11:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yep. And all the talk of inner-city warzones in the US distracts from how, say, the Prohibition era in the US had a homicide rate twice what it is today. (The eras that American culture goes back to again and again are ones where murder was more of a presence and gruesomely splashed on newspaper front pages.)
posted by holgate at 11:51 PM on March 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Ah, yes, back when America was Great Before.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:58 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:58 PM on March 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
12 GOP senators have criticized Paul Ryan’s health care bill. 3 defections kill it.
I am 99% that this bill won't pass. The repubs won't pass it for all of the fucking wrong reasons though.
Having said that there seems to be a chink in the armor for an increasing number of them and I am pretty sure that it is due to townhalls etc.
When you have Tom Cotton saying that this bill is too harsh on the neediest...I am not buying the words coming out of his mouth until I see action of course. I have wasps at the ready. pssst, I really don't want any bees to get killed so from now on I will be weoponizing wasps. no more bees. I like bees.
posted by futz at 12:05 AM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
In case there is any doubt left whether Trump or his minions orchestrated the tax return leak, here is what Republican pollster/messaging guru Frank Luntz tweeted tonight:
Rachel @Maddow debunked one of liberals' most widely-used attacks against Donald Trump – that he pays no income tax.posted by msalt at 12:05 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
An ethics watchdog group says a White House official appears to have attended meetings with corporate executives earlier this year while he personally held stock in the companies.
Is it Trump?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:08 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is it Trump?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:08 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Re relitigating the primaries: Deleted. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:09 AM on March 15, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 12:09 AM on March 15, 2017 [52 favorites]
From the Mefi ElectionThreadReference wiki: RLTP = "Relitigating the Primaries" DRTP = "Don't Relitigate the Primaries"
posted by christopherious at 12:12 AM on March 15, 2017
posted by christopherious at 12:12 AM on March 15, 2017
When you have Tom Cotton saying that this bill is too harsh on the neediest...I am not buying the words coming out of his mouth until I see action of course.
Chicken Neck Beardy Boy may be a conservative and also a terrible person, but he's in Arkansas (which voted for Bill Clinton twice) and he knows what his electorate looks like, especially since it has been shouting at him about healthcare for the past month. Arkansas has a "private option" section 1115 waiver to Medicaid expansion, and it cut the adult uninsured rate dramatically.
posted by holgate at 12:30 AM on March 15, 2017
Chicken Neck Beardy Boy may be a conservative and also a terrible person, but he's in Arkansas (which voted for Bill Clinton twice) and he knows what his electorate looks like, especially since it has been shouting at him about healthcare for the past month. Arkansas has a "private option" section 1115 waiver to Medicaid expansion, and it cut the adult uninsured rate dramatically.
posted by holgate at 12:30 AM on March 15, 2017
So tomorrow is the day Comey makes his Heel-Face turn? I guess this is how all the people waiting for Comey to indict Clinton felt.
I honestly don't know what I expect him to say.
posted by Justinian at 12:31 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I honestly don't know what I expect him to say.
posted by Justinian at 12:31 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I honestly don't know what I expect him to say.
Probably something like this. (relitigating the 1970s europop)
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:39 AM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Probably something like this. (relitigating the 1970s europop)
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:39 AM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Comey to say whether FBI probing Russia, Trump campaign by Wednesday
"When asked to confirm whether or not the FBI is probing Russia, Comey responds with a belch that lasted for almost 15 minutes." (unidentifiable laughter permeates the backround) [fake]
posted by futz at 1:05 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
"When asked to confirm whether or not the FBI is probing Russia, Comey responds with a belch that lasted for almost 15 minutes." (unidentifiable laughter permeates the backround) [fake]
posted by futz at 1:05 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Someone photoshopped one of Pete Souza's photos of Obama, and Pete Souza is retweeting it.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:22 AM on March 15, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 1:22 AM on March 15, 2017 [29 favorites]
He'll say that of course the FBI never investigated the Trump campaign, just people who worked on the Trump campaign
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:25 AM on March 15, 2017
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:25 AM on March 15, 2017
It's hard to do backwards math on multimillionaires' tax returns because of the manipulations they do, but what the Trump tax return does seem to say is that he was not nearly as rich or successful as he claimed to be.
But whatever, I call distraction, but I don't think even team Trump believes this can distract from the healthcare idiocy - they've clearly just decided to place that on Ryan. It is more today's Comey story they are aiming at, maybe because they know Comey is going to point to investigations into economic transactions.
Trump may be saying something like "The FBI won't be finding anything there, you all saw my tax return(s), I'm a law-abiding citizen paying millions in taxes. This is Obama trying to incriminate me"
posted by mumimor at 1:33 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
But whatever, I call distraction, but I don't think even team Trump believes this can distract from the healthcare idiocy - they've clearly just decided to place that on Ryan. It is more today's Comey story they are aiming at, maybe because they know Comey is going to point to investigations into economic transactions.
Trump may be saying something like "The FBI won't be finding anything there, you all saw my tax return(s), I'm a law-abiding citizen paying millions in taxes. This is Obama trying to incriminate me"
posted by mumimor at 1:33 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
i wonder if congressional republicans will continue to stonewall trump investigations if AHCA goes down and they realize that he's actually no help in pushing their legislative agenda
posted by murphy slaw at 1:53 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:53 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
i wonder if congressional republicans will continue to stonewall trump investigations if AHCA goes down and they realize that he's actually no help in pushing their legislative agenda
It all depends on the trumpistas, the congress republicans are scared of their voters, not of the president or his band of rotten men
posted by mumimor at 2:02 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
It all depends on the trumpistas, the congress republicans are scared of their voters, not of the president or his band of rotten men
posted by mumimor at 2:02 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just to scratch my pedantic itch: the "CLIENT COPY" does not mean for sure that this return was leaked by Trump - there are other plausible scenarios, like a current or former insider who wasn't paid, etc.
posted by thelonius at 3:23 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 3:23 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's no black bloc on the alt-right because getting arrested and beat up for your cause sounds suspiciously like caring. They're still trying to walk that knife edge between "true believer" and "for the lulz."
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:55 AM on March 15, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:55 AM on March 15, 2017 [25 favorites]
where'd all the skinheads go, anyway? have they just grown their hair out, retired to 8chan, and decided that actual violence is passé when you can just SWAT people?
posted by murphy slaw at 4:00 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 4:00 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
what the Trump tax return does seem to say is that he was not nearly as rich or successful as he claimed to be.
The thing is, for most people - honestly including myself - we can't really easily tell the difference between someone who "only" makes 80 million a year and someone who makes 250 million a year. They're still in the same category.
posted by corb at 4:26 AM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
The thing is, for most people - honestly including myself - we can't really easily tell the difference between someone who "only" makes 80 million a year and someone who makes 250 million a year. They're still in the same category.
posted by corb at 4:26 AM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
OK, I don't know what to make of any of this from the president this morning:
(My numbering, not his)
1. Does anybody really believe that a reporter, who nobody ever heard of, "went to his mailbox" and found my tax returns? @NBCNews FAKE NEWS!
2. Can you imagine what the outcry would be if @SnoopDogg, failing career and all, had aimed and fired the gun at President Obama? Jail time!
3. Will be going to Detroit, Michigan (love), today for a big meeting on bringing back car production to State & U.S. Already happening!
4. Looking forward to a big rally in Nashville, Tennessee, tonight. Big crowd of great people expected. Will be fun!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:37 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
(My numbering, not his)
1. Does anybody really believe that a reporter, who nobody ever heard of, "went to his mailbox" and found my tax returns? @NBCNews FAKE NEWS!
2. Can you imagine what the outcry would be if @SnoopDogg, failing career and all, had aimed and fired the gun at President Obama? Jail time!
3. Will be going to Detroit, Michigan (love), today for a big meeting on bringing back car production to State & U.S. Already happening!
4. Looking forward to a big rally in Nashville, Tennessee, tonight. Big crowd of great people expected. Will be fun!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:37 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, wait, OK, here's the Snoop Dogg video that he seems to be bothered buy. I guess it's unclear to me if the president understands the difference between reality and a music video.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:43 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:43 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
1. Does anybody really believe that a reporter, who nobody ever heard of, "went to his mailbox" and found my tax returns? @NBCNews FAKE NEWS!
2. Can you imagine what the outcry would be if @SnoopDogg, failing career and all, had aimed and fired the gun at President Obama? Jail time!
1. He's a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and you and the White House confirmed the fucking tax return and the numbers last night.
2. Yeah, people went to jail a lot for pretending to kill Obama. I mean look at all those Tea Partiers who got life for burning Obama in effigy... oh wait.
posted by chris24 at 4:44 AM on March 15, 2017 [52 favorites]
2. Can you imagine what the outcry would be if @SnoopDogg, failing career and all, had aimed and fired the gun at President Obama? Jail time!
1. He's a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and you and the White House confirmed the fucking tax return and the numbers last night.
2. Yeah, people went to jail a lot for pretending to kill Obama. I mean look at all those Tea Partiers who got life for burning Obama in effigy... oh wait.
posted by chris24 at 4:44 AM on March 15, 2017 [52 favorites]
Well I gotta give it up - there would have indeed been an outcry if Snoop had zizassinated Obama
posted by thelonius at 4:53 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 4:53 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I too favor state-run MTV
Well then you'll be glad to hear that this is one of the most solid planks in the Robotic Space Communist Party platform. It's coming! Stay tuned!
posted by Meatbomb at 4:58 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well then you'll be glad to hear that this is one of the most solid planks in the Robotic Space Communist Party platform. It's coming! Stay tuned!
posted by Meatbomb at 4:58 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Cohen on Snoop's video:
It's also a toy clown gun that pops out a little flag saying bang, followed and then the Trump character is seen alive but tied up. In other news, Donald Trump has previously stated that the entire families of unconvicted terrorist suspects should be assassinated.
posted by jaduncan at 4:59 AM on March 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
“It’s totally disgraceful. Snoop owes the president an apology,” Cohen said. “There’s absolutely nothing funny about an assassination attempt on a president, and I’m really shocked at him, because I thought he was better than that.”Cohen would like you to know that he has the vapors, and never thought that the author of Murder Was the Case rap about such a thing. Shocking, I tell you.
It's also a toy clown gun that pops out a little flag saying bang, followed and then the Trump character is seen alive but tied up. In other news, Donald Trump has previously stated that the entire families of unconvicted terrorist suspects should be assassinated.
posted by jaduncan at 4:59 AM on March 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
>@SnoopDogg, failing career and all,
Yeah, well, Snoop Dogg is a musician, and he made a music video. So he's at least doing his job. One wonders if Mr. Trump has someplace he works, or some job he's supposed to be doing, besides commenting on music videos.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Yeah, well, Snoop Dogg is a musician, and he made a music video. So he's at least doing his job. One wonders if Mr. Trump has someplace he works, or some job he's supposed to be doing, besides commenting on music videos.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
wow now Trump is going after Snoop Dogg
good use of your powers of the presidency, you POS
posted by angrycat at 5:05 AM on March 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
good use of your powers of the presidency, you POS
posted by angrycat at 5:05 AM on March 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
2. Yeah, people went to jail a lot for pretending to kill Obama. I mean look at all those Tea Partiers who got life for burning Obama in effigy... oh wait.
Obama also didn't waste his time tweeting about such things either.
posted by octothorpe at 5:07 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Obama also didn't waste his time tweeting about such things either.
posted by octothorpe at 5:07 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Snoop should release his taxes, he probably made more in 2005 than Trump.
Anyway, don't feed the troll. Healthcare bill. James Comey. He wants us talking about Snoop.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:19 AM on March 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
Anyway, don't feed the troll. Healthcare bill. James Comey. He wants us talking about Snoop.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:19 AM on March 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
Snoop should get as much jail time as Ted Nugent did.
posted by ian1977 at 5:25 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 5:25 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
“It’s totally disgraceful. Snoop owes the president an apology,” Cohen said.
...he continued, "the president however does not owe an apology for accusing Obama of a crime... or not being a US citizen.... or sexually asaulting a woman... or mocking a disabled reporter"
posted by PenDevil at 5:26 AM on March 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
...he continued, "the president however does not owe an apology for accusing Obama of a crime... or not being a US citizen.... or sexually asaulting a woman... or mocking a disabled reporter"
posted by PenDevil at 5:26 AM on March 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
Fart Against Trump
Das ist die größte Protestbewegung in der Geschichte der Menschheit.
Am 21. März 2017 um 23.05 Uhr MEZ sollen über 7 Milliarden Menschen einen gigantischen Furz Richtung Weißes Haus schicken.
Join the storm!
It's the largest protest movement in the history of mankind.
On March 21 2017 at 23:05 Middle European Time more than 7 billion people shall send a gigantic fart towards the White House.
Join the storm!
[Real but most likely not serious.]
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:32 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Das ist die größte Protestbewegung in der Geschichte der Menschheit.
Am 21. März 2017 um 23.05 Uhr MEZ sollen über 7 Milliarden Menschen einen gigantischen Furz Richtung Weißes Haus schicken.
Join the storm!
It's the largest protest movement in the history of mankind.
On March 21 2017 at 23:05 Middle European Time more than 7 billion people shall send a gigantic fart towards the White House.
Join the storm!
[Real but most likely not serious.]
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:32 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
State v Hawaii argument (against the new travel ban) will take place 9:30 Hawaii time today. So that's something to watch as well.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:34 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:34 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
where'd all the skinheads go, anyway? have they just grown their hair out, retired to 8chan, and decided that actual violence is passé when you can just SWAT people?
They have slightly more hair, and are attending conferences in DC.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 5:36 AM on March 15, 2017
They have slightly more hair, and are attending conferences in DC.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 5:36 AM on March 15, 2017
Politico: ‘People are scared’: Paranoia seizes Trump’s White House: In interviews, nearly a dozen White House aides and federal agency staffers described a litany of suspicions: that rival factions in the administration are trying to embarrass them, that civil servants opposed to President Donald Trump are trying to undermine him, and even that a “deep state” of career military and intelligence officials is out to destroy them.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:42 AM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:42 AM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Politico: ‘People are scared’:
Yeah? Well, I'm scared too, except I'm not "scared" that I'll have to leave a highly-paid gig for a lifetime on the wingnut welfare circuit, I'm scared that my university job will get defunded and I'll lose my healthcare and my house.
posted by Frowner at 6:03 AM on March 15, 2017 [64 favorites]
Yeah? Well, I'm scared too, except I'm not "scared" that I'll have to leave a highly-paid gig for a lifetime on the wingnut welfare circuit, I'm scared that my university job will get defunded and I'll lose my healthcare and my house.
posted by Frowner at 6:03 AM on March 15, 2017 [64 favorites]
New PPP poll:
Only 24% of voters support [Trumpcare], to 49% who are opposed. Even among Republican voters only 37% are in favor of the proposal to 22% who are against it, and 41% who aren't sure one way or another. Democrats (15/71) and independents (22/49) are more unified in their opposition to the bill than Republicans are in favor of it.posted by melissasaurus at 6:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [33 favorites]
63% of voters now support an independent investigation into Russia's involvement in the 2016 Presidential election, to only 28% opposed to one. On a related note, 60% of voters think Russia wanted Donald Trump to win last year's election to only 16% who think it wanted Clinton to win. Among Trump voters though, 30% think Russia wanted Clinton to win the election to 28% who grant it wanted Trump to be victorious.
Only 27% of voters believe Trump's accusations that Barack Obama tapped his phone during the election last year, to 56% who don't believe them. Trump's voters are going along with him on it though- 57% of them think Trump was tapped to only 17% who don't believe he was.
Trump continues to lose out in his fights with the media. Voters say that the New York Times has more credibility than him, 53/35, and that CNN has more credibility than him, 53/37.
I'm scared that we're all going to die in a nuclear apocalypse.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
“President Trump’s Supreme Court nominee has breezed through more than 70 meetings with senators. Opponents who’ve scoured his record have found little to latch onto. And some Democrats are privately beginning to believe that Gorsuch — barring a blunder at his Senate confirmation hearings next week — will clinch the 60 votes he needs to be approved without a filibuster.”
Any Democrats voting for confirmation are traitors. They must be primaried into the sea of fire and damn the consequences. If there's anything worth fighting it has to be this or why are we even trying.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:10 AM on March 15, 2017 [65 favorites]
Any Democrats voting for confirmation are traitors. They must be primaried into the sea of fire and damn the consequences. If there's anything worth fighting it has to be this or why are we even trying.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:10 AM on March 15, 2017 [65 favorites]
I'm having a hard time parsing the "were Trump's phones tapped?" question. Accusing Obama of wiretapping is stupid and cruel and possibly a crime (the usual Trumpfecta). But I believe (and hope I'm right) that the DOJ independently tapped his phones as part of the Russia inquiry. So if a poll asked me if I believed his phones were tapped, I'd say yes too. But I don't think it was Obama doing it. Am I missing something? Or is even assuming that much akin to saying that Obama had the DOJ tap his phones, since it happened on his watch?
posted by Mchelly at 6:15 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Mchelly at 6:15 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Aren't everybody's phones tapped at this point?
posted by wabbittwax at 6:21 AM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 6:21 AM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
But I believe (and hope I'm right) that the DOJ independently tapped his phones as part of the Russia inquiry
If they did so without a FISA warrant, then they did a very bad thing. But what's more likely is not that they tapped Trump's phones, but that the CIA/NSA/Five Eyes was listening in on all the convos the Russians were having with anyone else, and that in that great big slurp of Russian phone calls, Trump people got caught up.
posted by dis_integration at 6:21 AM on March 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
If they did so without a FISA warrant, then they did a very bad thing. But what's more likely is not that they tapped Trump's phones, but that the CIA/NSA/Five Eyes was listening in on all the convos the Russians were having with anyone else, and that in that great big slurp of Russian phone calls, Trump people got caught up.
posted by dis_integration at 6:21 AM on March 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
Wait, so the Attorney General perjured himself in front of a Senate committee?
And EPA trumplicant Scat Pruitt perjured himself before a Senate committee as well? About using a private email server?
AlfaBank has an office IN Trump Tower?!?
posted by petebest at 6:24 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
And EPA trumplicant Scat Pruitt perjured himself before a Senate committee as well? About using a private email server?
AlfaBank has an office IN Trump Tower?!?
posted by petebest at 6:24 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Slate: Rachel Maddow Turned a Scoop on Donald Trump’s Taxes Into a Cynical, Self-Defeating Spectacle
TV is a ratings game, but an entire episode about highly damaging tax returns is just as likely to get you great ratings as milking the possibility that you have highly damaging tax returns, and less likely to get you compared to Geraldo.posted by ZeusHumms at 6:45 AM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
...
Trump’s tax returns, whatever information they happen to contain, constitute a major scoop. Maddow’s social media team ensured the highest possible ratings for that scoop. But if ever a story should have been delivered in a stentorian, fuddy-duddy, nonpartisan manner, this was it. In positioning it as a grand revelation, a vital step in comprehending Trump’s corruption, MSNBC created an exceedingly cynical spectacle. By playing into the network’s loyal liberal audience’s fantasy that there exists a Trump silver bullet, it instead delivered Trump a positive news cycle—the guy pays taxes! Who knew!—amidst the debacle of the AHCA, along with more evidence that the media is aligned against him. The lesson? Don’t tell us you have news, just tell us the news.
“It’s totally disgraceful. Snoop owes the president an apology,” Cohen said. “There’s absolutely nothing funny about an assassination attempt on a president, and I’m really shocked at him, because I thought he was better than that.”
When you say that to the Nuge, then I'll believe you.
posted by scalefree at 6:46 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
When you say that to the Nuge, then I'll believe you.
posted by scalefree at 6:46 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
NYT: Rachel Maddow Lands a Scoop, Then Makes Viewers Wait
The headline is a bit misleading. The NYT seems fully on Rachel Maddow's side here, and goes out of its way to mock the (all male) journalists who criticized what Maddow did.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:47 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
The headline is a bit misleading. The NYT seems fully on Rachel Maddow's side here, and goes out of its way to mock the (all male) journalists who criticized what Maddow did.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:47 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
We expect to have a new president within a year and the American people deserve to have that president make his or her nomination.
Or: 'We don't think it's right to nominate a new Justice during the runup to the 2020 presidential elections.'
posted by PenDevil at 6:52 AM on March 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
Or: 'We don't think it's right to nominate a new Justice during the runup to the 2020 presidential elections.'
posted by PenDevil at 6:52 AM on March 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
I missed the whole tax hoo-haw last night because I was catching up on Legion (Dan Stevens, call me!), but I actually think the tweet should have been the tip-off that it was not the droids we were looking for. A breathless tweet says "I've got a juicy tidibit!" It doesn't say, "I have gravely concerning information that implicates the President in actual crimes."
I'm also on Team He Leaked Them Himself (or rather Team Bannon Encouraged Him To Leak Them Because He's Too Dumb To Understand The Advantages Of Doing So On His Own.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:53 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm also on Team He Leaked Them Himself (or rather Team Bannon Encouraged Him To Leak Them Because He's Too Dumb To Understand The Advantages Of Doing So On His Own.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:53 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
From the NYT article:
Ms. Maddow’s opening monologue raised lingering questions about links between Mr. Trump and Russia — questions that no simple 1040 form, like the one sent to Mr. Johnston, could address.
posted by diogenes at 6:54 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ms. Maddow’s opening monologue raised lingering questions about links between Mr. Trump and Russia — questions that no simple 1040 form, like the one sent to Mr. Johnston, could address.
posted by diogenes at 6:54 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
We expect to have a new president within a year and the American people deserve to have that president make his or her nomination.
Be sure to mention that Pence is getting impeached too, Ryan is quickly drowning under his own incompetence in the House, and it would be best to wait on the SCOTUS pick til we can find a President that will stick around long to see his Judge confirmed.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:54 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Be sure to mention that Pence is getting impeached too, Ryan is quickly drowning under his own incompetence in the House, and it would be best to wait on the SCOTUS pick til we can find a President that will stick around long to see his Judge confirmed.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:54 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
CNN: DOJ official says agency will announce developments related to "major" cyber intrusion “with the backing of a nation state" (press conference at 11:30am.)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:59 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:59 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
There's no black bloc on the alt-right because getting arrested and beat up for your cause sounds suspiciously like caring. They're still trying to walk that knife edge between "true believer" and "for the lulz."
I think it's more like they already have the cops to commit violence and terrify on their behalf, and they're a lot more pervasive, effective and ruthless than any Black Bloc actions.
posted by indubitable at 6:59 AM on March 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
I think it's more like they already have the cops to commit violence and terrify on their behalf, and they're a lot more pervasive, effective and ruthless than any Black Bloc actions.
posted by indubitable at 6:59 AM on March 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
DOJ official says agency will announce developments related to "major" cyber intrusion “with the backing of a nation state" (press conference at 11:30am.)
Oh wonderful, it'll be the Trump administration vs Great Britain/Germany/all of the EU for tapping the Russians.
posted by lydhre at 7:00 AM on March 15, 2017
Oh wonderful, it'll be the Trump administration vs Great Britain/Germany/all of the EU for tapping the Russians.
posted by lydhre at 7:00 AM on March 15, 2017
David Cay Johnston reported on twitter that people have been calling to harass his wife and child. Because America.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:06 AM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:06 AM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
I found this twitter thread useful in laying out the whats and whys of this release of Trump's taxes.
posted by Spumante at 7:11 AM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Spumante at 7:11 AM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Justice Department charging Russian spies and criminal hackers for Yahoo intrusion: The Justice Department is set to announce Wednesday the indictments of two Russian spies and two criminal hackers for the heist of 500 million Yahoo user accounts in 2014, marking the first U.S. criminal cyber charges ever against Russian government officials.
The indictments target two members of the Russian intelligence agency FSB, and two hackers hired by the Russians.
The charges include hacking, wire fraud, trade secret theft and economic espionage, according to officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the charges have not yet been announced. The indictments are part of the largest ever hacking case brought by the United States.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:12 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
The indictments target two members of the Russian intelligence agency FSB, and two hackers hired by the Russians.
The charges include hacking, wire fraud, trade secret theft and economic espionage, according to officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the charges have not yet been announced. The indictments are part of the largest ever hacking case brought by the United States.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:12 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, Rachel and other journos should be wary of what happened to Dan Rather.
She did her homework and sent the returns to the White House before going with the story. Apparently they confirmed their reality so no chance of Rathering here.
posted by dis_integration at 7:13 AM on March 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
She did her homework and sent the returns to the White House before going with the story. Apparently they confirmed their reality so no chance of Rathering here.
posted by dis_integration at 7:13 AM on March 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
zachlipton: This is not an encouraging sign, from Prerequisite for Key White House Posts: Loyalty, Not Experience
I was reading through the discussion about Trump's lack of pet and reveling in this glorious image of a bald eagle named Uncle Sam attacking Trump (thanks, scalefree!), so I misread the link as "Prerequisite for Key White House Pets: Loyalty, Not Experience" and I was confused as to why that was a bad thing.
"Come on, just let a dog be a good doggie! It doesn't have to protect the president or do tricks."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:26 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was reading through the discussion about Trump's lack of pet and reveling in this glorious image of a bald eagle named Uncle Sam attacking Trump (thanks, scalefree!), so I misread the link as "Prerequisite for Key White House Pets: Loyalty, Not Experience" and I was confused as to why that was a bad thing.
"Come on, just let a dog be a good doggie! It doesn't have to protect the president or do tricks."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:26 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm scared that we're all going to die in a nuclear apocalypse.
The problem with nuclear apocalypse is that people are both scared of dying in one and scared of surviving one, like you wouldn't believe!
posted by juiceCake at 7:32 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
The problem with nuclear apocalypse is that people are both scared of dying in one and scared of surviving one, like you wouldn't believe!
posted by juiceCake at 7:32 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
while I cry no tears for the sad and scared White House officials, it terrifies the fuck out of me that so much energy is being spent trying to root out those who don't accept Trump's narcissistic reality.
posted by angrycat at 7:38 AM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 7:38 AM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
it terrifies the fuck out of me that so much energy is being spent trying to root out those who don't accept Trump's narcissistic reality.
Imagine how much external fuckery they would be perpetrating if it weren't for all this internal fuckery.
posted by Etrigan at 7:41 AM on March 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
Imagine how much external fuckery they would be perpetrating if it weren't for all this internal fuckery.
posted by Etrigan at 7:41 AM on March 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
As we saw too often, the Obama administration went beyond its legal authority in creating legislation that limits the role of state governments," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said from the Senate floor.
McConnell can say whatever he pleases on the Senate floor or in front of the TV cameras, but I'd like to see him try that "the Obama administration went beyond its legal authority" argument in front of a judge and see if it holds water.
posted by Gelatin at 7:41 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
suelac: I'm amazed that half of her concern about California involves LUNCH BREAKS. The demon lunch break! O the horror!
Treating people like responsible humans who need a break instead of cheating, sneaky slackers who will take any opportunity to not work is kind of a Republican hallmark. For a similar example, the New Mexico governor hates public school teachers so much that she is fighting to keep limited use of sick days as part of teacher evaluations, which is getting bipartisan pushback with House Bill 241, which is subtitled “Teachers are human, too.” The measure passed both house and senate, only to get vetoed by the governor, who trumpets that by negatively scoring teachers who use four or more sick days, she's kept more teachers in the classroom. And now the senate has overturned her veto with a supermajority, so we're waiting to see if the house will quash the governor's nonsense.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:42 AM on March 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
Treating people like responsible humans who need a break instead of cheating, sneaky slackers who will take any opportunity to not work is kind of a Republican hallmark. For a similar example, the New Mexico governor hates public school teachers so much that she is fighting to keep limited use of sick days as part of teacher evaluations, which is getting bipartisan pushback with House Bill 241, which is subtitled “Teachers are human, too.” The measure passed both house and senate, only to get vetoed by the governor, who trumpets that by negatively scoring teachers who use four or more sick days, she's kept more teachers in the classroom. And now the senate has overturned her veto with a supermajority, so we're waiting to see if the house will quash the governor's nonsense.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:42 AM on March 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments deleted. Folks, I get that the concern is real, but trading worst-fears doomsday scenarios makes these threads hard to read for people who just want to keep up with the present horrors.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:44 AM on March 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:44 AM on March 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
Treating people like responsible humans who need a break instead of cheating, sneaky slackers who will take any opportunity to not work is kind of a Republican hallmark.
I feel like projection needs some kind of jingle at this point.
I'd take advantage of everyone
If given half a cha-aaance!
So I got my eye on all you motherfuckers
something something gla-aaance!
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:48 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I feel like projection needs some kind of jingle at this point.
I'd take advantage of everyone
If given half a cha-aaance!
So I got my eye on all you motherfuckers
something something gla-aaance!
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:48 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, tomorrow is the ides of March, so anything could happen, I guess.
"Failing Romans Casca, Cinna, Cassius stab me in front of the Capitol? Disaster! And Brutus too? Sad! FAKE KNIVES."
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 7:56 AM on March 15, 2017 [35 favorites]
"Failing Romans Casca, Cinna, Cassius stab me in front of the Capitol? Disaster! And Brutus too? Sad! FAKE KNIVES."
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 7:56 AM on March 15, 2017 [35 favorites]
I have this perspective on Trump's 2005 taxes. Since 2005 (through 2016), the federal deficit (not the same as the debt) has totaled $8.46 trillion dollars.
There are 117 million households in the United States. (2010 census). This makes 1.17 million households in the top 1%. The top 1% income averaged $1,153,293 (2013 figures, not everything is available from the same years).
In this case average is a good number to have: multiply average by the population and you have total. $1.15 million times 1.17 million (1% of households) and you have $1.35 trillion dollars of income.
In America, the top tax bracket is 39.6%.
If the top 1% of income earners paid 39.6% that would be $534 billion.
If the top 1% of income earners paid 25% (the amount Trump paid in 2005 on taxable income after the minimum income tax), that number would total $338 billion, a loss of nearly $200 billion in comparison to the 39.6% rate.
If the top 1% of income earners paid 3.5% (the amount Trump would have paid in 2005 if he didn't pay the minimum income tax) that would total $47 billion dollars, a loss of $487 billion in comparison to the 39.6% rate. (the federal deficit was $587 billion in 2016)
In other words, following Trump's lead, the 1% would be adding $200 billion a year to the deficit, or over the last eleven years 2.4 trillion.
Without the alternative minimum income tax (and following Trump's mode of stinginess), that would be 5.9 trillion in 11 years.
The mentality of Trump, inasmuch as it is followed by others in the one percent, is a major cause of the deficit.
In the absence of people like Trump paying their taxes, the rest of us are gouged.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:56 AM on March 15, 2017 [61 favorites]
There are 117 million households in the United States. (2010 census). This makes 1.17 million households in the top 1%. The top 1% income averaged $1,153,293 (2013 figures, not everything is available from the same years).
In this case average is a good number to have: multiply average by the population and you have total. $1.15 million times 1.17 million (1% of households) and you have $1.35 trillion dollars of income.
In America, the top tax bracket is 39.6%.
If the top 1% of income earners paid 39.6% that would be $534 billion.
If the top 1% of income earners paid 25% (the amount Trump paid in 2005 on taxable income after the minimum income tax), that number would total $338 billion, a loss of nearly $200 billion in comparison to the 39.6% rate.
If the top 1% of income earners paid 3.5% (the amount Trump would have paid in 2005 if he didn't pay the minimum income tax) that would total $47 billion dollars, a loss of $487 billion in comparison to the 39.6% rate. (the federal deficit was $587 billion in 2016)
In other words, following Trump's lead, the 1% would be adding $200 billion a year to the deficit, or over the last eleven years 2.4 trillion.
Without the alternative minimum income tax (and following Trump's mode of stinginess), that would be 5.9 trillion in 11 years.
The mentality of Trump, inasmuch as it is followed by others in the one percent, is a major cause of the deficit.
In the absence of people like Trump paying their taxes, the rest of us are gouged.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:56 AM on March 15, 2017 [61 favorites]
Today is Ruth Bader Ginsburg's 84th brithday.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:01 AM on March 15, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:01 AM on March 15, 2017 [49 favorites]
Treating people like responsible humans who need a break instead of cheating, sneaky slackers who will take any opportunity to not work is kind of a Republican hallmark.
Ah, good old Theory X!
posted by TedW at 8:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ah, good old Theory X!
posted by TedW at 8:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The measure passed both house and senate, only to get vetoed by the governor, who trumpets that by negatively scoring teachers who use four or more sick days, she's kept more teachers in the classroom.
I'm sure she's kept more teachers in the classroom day to day. No word on whether that policy helps keep teachers in the classroom year to year, and I'd guess that's a hard no. I've never been so sick in my life as the first year I spent teaching, and that's true for a lot of teachers. This is some evil shit.
posted by asperity at 8:08 AM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm sure she's kept more teachers in the classroom day to day. No word on whether that policy helps keep teachers in the classroom year to year, and I'd guess that's a hard no. I've never been so sick in my life as the first year I spent teaching, and that's true for a lot of teachers. This is some evil shit.
posted by asperity at 8:08 AM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
But if you give someone a potato or something it needs strict means testing.
posted by Artw at 8:08 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 8:08 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Were you all aware that the tape- and packing- and everything-supply company ULINE is owned and operated by a bunch of assholes (the Uihlein family) who not only are pro-Trump but are willing to post this kind of garbage on their company's web site?
Oh, that Liz Uihlein. As a part-time resident of Vilas County in Wisconsin's Northwoods, I've been angry with her for quite some time. She and her family have no moral issues with using their influence to sneakily buy up a bunch of lakefront land in the area. They see themselves as the saviors of the town, because they own some businesses, and therefore entitled to do whatever they want.
posted by TheFantasticNumberFour at 8:09 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh, that Liz Uihlein. As a part-time resident of Vilas County in Wisconsin's Northwoods, I've been angry with her for quite some time. She and her family have no moral issues with using their influence to sneakily buy up a bunch of lakefront land in the area. They see themselves as the saviors of the town, because they own some businesses, and therefore entitled to do whatever they want.
posted by TheFantasticNumberFour at 8:09 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Today is Ruth Bader Ginsburg's 84th brithday.
That makes me want to hide under a blanket for the next four years. Tell me when it's safe to get out, RBG.
posted by lydhre at 8:10 AM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
That makes me want to hide under a blanket for the next four years. Tell me when it's safe to get out, RBG.
posted by lydhre at 8:10 AM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Josh Marshall with some encouraging words.
TL;DR: the failure of Trumpcare will cripple the administration and the GOP going into 2018. And the resistance seems to be working so far.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:16 AM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
TL;DR: the failure of Trumpcare will cripple the administration and the GOP going into 2018. And the resistance seems to be working so far.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:16 AM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
Treating people like responsible humans who need a break instead of cheating, sneaky slackers who will take any opportunity to not work is kind of a Republican hallmark.
Why, it's almost as though they know how they would act if not constrained by the rules of society.
posted by Etrigan at 8:19 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Why, it's almost as though they know how they would act if not constrained by the rules of society.
posted by Etrigan at 8:19 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
by negatively scoring teachers who use four or more sick days, she's kept more teachers in the classroom.
Who make the kids sick who bring it home to make their families sick who don't necessarily have healthcare coverage and even if they do they might not sick days so they make THEIR office sick and it keeps rolling and rolling and rolling...
The worst disease this country suffers from is Puritanism, since it just amplifies the rest.
posted by Freon at 8:20 AM on March 15, 2017 [65 favorites]
Who make the kids sick who bring it home to make their families sick who don't necessarily have healthcare coverage and even if they do they might not sick days so they make THEIR office sick and it keeps rolling and rolling and rolling...
The worst disease this country suffers from is Puritanism, since it just amplifies the rest.
posted by Freon at 8:20 AM on March 15, 2017 [65 favorites]
"Failing Romans Casca, Cinna, Cassius stab me in front of the Capitol? Disaster! And Brutus too? Sad! FAKE KNIVES."
Awesome. I couldn't help myself.
posted by jammer at 8:26 AM on March 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
Awesome. I couldn't help myself.
posted by jammer at 8:26 AM on March 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
Why, it's almost as though they know how they would act if not constrained by the rules of society.
And yet they expressly design those rules so as to affect them not in the slightest. It's like if Superman realized that he might go mad with his own power, and thus calmly and rationally resolved to shoot everyone else in the world with Kryptonite bullets.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:29 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
And yet they expressly design those rules so as to affect them not in the slightest. It's like if Superman realized that he might go mad with his own power, and thus calmly and rationally resolved to shoot everyone else in the world with Kryptonite bullets.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:29 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Awesome. I couldn't help myself.
It was good that you went with that urge. Really good.
posted by mikelieman at 8:32 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
It was good that you went with that urge. Really good.
posted by mikelieman at 8:32 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Lots of details from Jeff Sessions' remarks today on this WSJ reporter's twitter account. Says Trump did not get any evidence to believe that he was wiretapped. Sessions also calls marijuana a "life-wrecking dependency...that’s only slightly less awful" than heroin.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:32 AM on March 15, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:32 AM on March 15, 2017
futz: The EPA Used to Tweet About the Environment. Now It Just Tweets About Scott Pruitt.
How did I not notice this already? I am on the EPA's email list, because I like to see what environmental grants awarded and fines have been charged in my region. They used to send out a string of emails at a time, which were collected in an EPA Blog Digest email once a week. Looking in my email inbox, I see Scott Pruitt's confirmation on 2/17/2017, then Pesticide poisoning trainings, March 6 on Kauai, March 7 on Oahu (2/21), and EPA awards $380,000 to Diné College for abandoned uranium mine study (2/28).
They're not silent, but definitely not active, and the EPA blog was last updated January 19, 2017.
Another peak inside federal and state government: some colleagues were in a meeting recently where a federal employee, who we have known is a libertarian opened up about what he sees as injustices in how federal funds are spent on people who aren't (like?) him. We've worked this guy for years, and we've known he's an odd fit for his position, but he hasn't spoken up like this before, which is good - previously he was professional, and at this meeting, he was not.
Paraphrasing what Aziz Ansari said on SNL, please go back to pretending that you care about doing your job with some semblance of politeness and consideration about others! I’m so sorry we never thanked you for your service. We never realized how much effort you put into pretending you aren't a selfish person.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:34 AM on March 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
How did I not notice this already? I am on the EPA's email list, because I like to see what environmental grants awarded and fines have been charged in my region. They used to send out a string of emails at a time, which were collected in an EPA Blog Digest email once a week. Looking in my email inbox, I see Scott Pruitt's confirmation on 2/17/2017, then Pesticide poisoning trainings, March 6 on Kauai, March 7 on Oahu (2/21), and EPA awards $380,000 to Diné College for abandoned uranium mine study (2/28).
They're not silent, but definitely not active, and the EPA blog was last updated January 19, 2017.
Another peak inside federal and state government: some colleagues were in a meeting recently where a federal employee, who we have known is a libertarian opened up about what he sees as injustices in how federal funds are spent on people who aren't (like?) him. We've worked this guy for years, and we've known he's an odd fit for his position, but he hasn't spoken up like this before, which is good - previously he was professional, and at this meeting, he was not.
Paraphrasing what Aziz Ansari said on SNL, please go back to pretending that you care about doing your job with some semblance of politeness and consideration about others! I’m so sorry we never thanked you for your service. We never realized how much effort you put into pretending you aren't a selfish person.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:34 AM on March 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
"life-wrecking dependency...
...mainly because if we catch you with some, we will wreck your life.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:35 AM on March 15, 2017 [35 favorites]
...mainly because if we catch you with some, we will wreck your life.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:35 AM on March 15, 2017 [35 favorites]
the EPA blog was last updated January 19, 2017.
I'd like to see a running count of things that's true for. I bet it's large.
posted by Etrigan at 8:36 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'd like to see a running count of things that's true for. I bet it's large.
posted by Etrigan at 8:36 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Comey will testify publicly on Russia investigation next week: FBI Director James Comey has agreed to appear at a public House Intelligence Committee hearing next Monday on the investigation into Russia's alleged meddling in the 2016 election, Chairman Devin Nunes told reporters Wednesday.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:37 AM on March 15, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:37 AM on March 15, 2017
Failing Romans Casca, Cinna, Cassius stab me in front of the Capitol? Disaster! And Brutus too? Sad! FAKE KNIVES
Part of me keeps getting excited when anyone talks about "Ides of March Resistance" and then sad when they continue with "postcards".
posted by corb at 8:38 AM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Part of me keeps getting excited when anyone talks about "Ides of March Resistance" and then sad when they continue with "postcards".
posted by corb at 8:38 AM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
what is this thing with Sessions has with weed. You can't od on weed. Does he actually understand this
posted by angrycat at 8:39 AM on March 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 8:39 AM on March 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
Sessions also calls marijuana a "life-wrecking dependency...that’s only slightly less awful" than heroin.
Come to think of it, a 125 year old Harry J. Anslinger kept alive with evil magicks would look an awful lot like Jeff Sessions.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:39 AM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Come to think of it, a 125 year old Harry J. Anslinger kept alive with evil magicks would look an awful lot like Jeff Sessions.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:39 AM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Is anyone else watching the joint statement of Schiff and Nunes? My understanding is that the House Intel Committee has now have access to everything the Gang of 8 has seen, but that it's all kept by CIA(?) and that they aren't even allowing a computer in the room at this time: Schiff said he's been taking handwritten notes and leaving them locked in the room with the intel... Also apparently some external (?) force has pushed the FBI to be more "cooperative" with the Intel Committee?
posted by Freon at 8:40 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Freon at 8:40 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sessions also calls marijuana a "life-wrecking dependency...that’s only slightly less awful" than heroin.
I really want to know the story behind this. Like, did Jeff do something personally embarrassing the first time he got stoned, like smile at a black person?
posted by uncleozzy at 8:41 AM on March 15, 2017 [58 favorites]
I really want to know the story behind this. Like, did Jeff do something personally embarrassing the first time he got stoned, like smile at a black person?
posted by uncleozzy at 8:41 AM on March 15, 2017 [58 favorites]
Sessions also calls marijuana a "life-wrecking dependency["]
To be fair, he was only talking about their record collections. There are only so many Sublime tribute albums that one person should own.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:42 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
To be fair, he was only talking about their record collections. There are only so many Sublime tribute albums that one person should own.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:42 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
I really want to know the story behind this. Like, did Jeff do something personally embarrassing the first time he got stoned, like smile at a black person?
The story is it allows him to smile at a black person as they get led away to prison for minor bullshit.
posted by chris24 at 8:43 AM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
The story is it allows him to smile at a black person as they get led away to prison for minor bullshit.
posted by chris24 at 8:43 AM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
TPM: Trumptanic Approaches Repeal Iceberg - Everything Is Fine
The GOP and President Trump are now woefully exposed with a deeply unpopular reform, deep in enemy territory with little hope of an organized retreat. The Senate GOP wants to go left; the House GOP wants to go right. And you're already seeing a growing chorus from the feral Trump right that Paul Ryan has led Trump into a trap and he, Ryan, should be forced to pay the price.posted by ZeusHumms at 8:43 AM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
This can break Trump if his opponents can organize effectively, maybe even if they can't.
A couple of recent articles, together, paint the picture that a successful safety net and secularization in America may lead to what could be called a Europeanization of the major parties: socialists to the left of me, nativists to the right. If this is the case, then perhaps Democrats could draw lessons from successful leftists in Europe. So... who are the successful leftists in Europe? Or are they all getting trampled underfoot by the rise of the right?
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:45 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:45 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Still catching up from last night, but this: White House statement: Starts with "You know you are desperate for ratings
...was echoed this morning on NPR. My response: Thanks for admitting that people are interested enough in the contents of Trump's tax return that having them would boost ratings, White House spox!
posted by Gelatin at 8:48 AM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
...was echoed this morning on NPR. My response: Thanks for admitting that people are interested enough in the contents of Trump's tax return that having them would boost ratings, White House spox!
posted by Gelatin at 8:48 AM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Sessions also calls marijuana a "life-wrecking dependency...that’s only slightly less awful" than heroin.
There's part of me hoping that when he falls from power, my country will be at the point that I can light up a joint legally and watch the news coverage. But there's a larger part of me hoping his fall from power happens faster than that.
posted by nubs at 8:50 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
There's part of me hoping that when he falls from power, my country will be at the point that I can light up a joint legally and watch the news coverage. But there's a larger part of me hoping his fall from power happens faster than that.
posted by nubs at 8:50 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
So... who are the successful leftists in Europe? Or are they all getting trampled underfoot by the rise of the right?
I don't know if you can have this conversation without talking about immigration. Which is good, because immigration ain't going anywhere.
My admittedly lay-understanding is that if climate change keeps accelerating at its current WTF-y pace, we're going to see a lot more migration from the burning or submerged or famished or poor places to the places with existing infrastructure that have not been totally ravaged or made unlivable by a convulsing planet.
So. There's gonna be a lot of change. I don't think those of us intent on fighting the fascists / racists / Nazis are going to be able to rest in my lifetime.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:52 AM on March 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
I don't know if you can have this conversation without talking about immigration. Which is good, because immigration ain't going anywhere.
My admittedly lay-understanding is that if climate change keeps accelerating at its current WTF-y pace, we're going to see a lot more migration from the burning or submerged or famished or poor places to the places with existing infrastructure that have not been totally ravaged or made unlivable by a convulsing planet.
So. There's gonna be a lot of change. I don't think those of us intent on fighting the fascists / racists / Nazis are going to be able to rest in my lifetime.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:52 AM on March 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'm still unclear on why the far right hates Ryan so much,
He didn't kowtow to the God Emperor quickly or passionately enough. They know he still hates the guy and is only faking it until he makes it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:53 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
He didn't kowtow to the God Emperor quickly or passionately enough. They know he still hates the guy and is only faking it until he makes it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:53 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm still unclear on why the far right hates Ryan so much
The narcissism of small differences?
posted by Kitty Stardust at 8:55 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
The narcissism of small differences?
posted by Kitty Stardust at 8:55 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Today's re:act email on what to do about Trump's taxes:
Ask your rep to support House Resolution 186 (H.Res.186), which directs the Department of the Treasury to provide to the House of Representatives the full tax returns of President Trump for tax years 2006–2015, financial documentation, and any information in its possession that specifies President Trump’s foreign debts, investments in foreign countries and enterprises, and use of tax loopholes.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:57 AM on March 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
Ask your rep to support House Resolution 186 (H.Res.186), which directs the Department of the Treasury to provide to the House of Representatives the full tax returns of President Trump for tax years 2006–2015, financial documentation, and any information in its possession that specifies President Trump’s foreign debts, investments in foreign countries and enterprises, and use of tax loopholes.
“Hello my name is [NAME] from [PLACE]. I am calling because I think we have to ensure that our president’s foreign dealings do not violate the US constitution, or pose a threat to our national security. Does [REPRESENTATIVE X] support House Resolution 186 and the release of President Trump’s tax returns? Will [REPRESENTATIVE X] be vocal in doing so?”Sign up for a tax march near you. On Saturday, April 15, marches are taking place across the country to demand that the president releases his tax returns, sending the message that he is accountable to the people.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:57 AM on March 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
The hate katamari of fascists plays no favorites.
posted by erisfree at 8:58 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by erisfree at 8:58 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
kekamari magacy
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:01 AM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:01 AM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Josh Marshall with post #3 about the failure katamari* of Trumpcare and its next target: Paul Ryan.
I have somewhat mixed feelings about this, because if the Breitbart wing wins decisively, then we're left with just the really enthusiastic Nazis, as opposed to enthusiastic Nazis and the Nazi-sympathizer who are trying to get them to observe *some* social norms. But I don't think the GOP establishment is a paper tiger when it comes to the machinations of politics within government, so I'm hoping they mortally wound each other. Like the Ryans of the world might be powerless to deal with the ravenous base during an election, but they can bring out the knives for you in committee, or...something.
If Ryan gets primaried by a Trumpist and loses, we have a problem.
*all credit to erisfree. I like "katamari of [some evil thing]" rather than "terrible Nazi zombie virus of the mind," because it seems less...doom-y, somehow
posted by schadenfrau at 9:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have somewhat mixed feelings about this, because if the Breitbart wing wins decisively, then we're left with just the really enthusiastic Nazis, as opposed to enthusiastic Nazis and the Nazi-sympathizer who are trying to get them to observe *some* social norms. But I don't think the GOP establishment is a paper tiger when it comes to the machinations of politics within government, so I'm hoping they mortally wound each other. Like the Ryans of the world might be powerless to deal with the ravenous base during an election, but they can bring out the knives for you in committee, or...something.
If Ryan gets primaried by a Trumpist and loses, we have a problem.
*all credit to erisfree. I like "katamari of [some evil thing]" rather than "terrible Nazi zombie virus of the mind," because it seems less...doom-y, somehow
posted by schadenfrau at 9:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
If I ever have to meet Jeff Sessions I'm going to take a shitload of pleasure in dressing like a caricature of a prim and proper WASP-y lady and smiling demurely while I tell him about the time I held down a full time job and earned a promotion while also earning a college degree with honors and taking care of an aging grandparent, all while high as a fucking kite every single day on the demon weed. Not that it'll make any kind of difference to him. I'd just really enjoy watching his creepy face freeze in polite horror. Fuck that guy.
posted by palomar at 9:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by palomar at 9:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
What's the popular wisdom about contacting your reps about bills that are still in committee, when your rep is not actually on that committee?
(I fucking hate committees, btw. I understand why they exist but it feels like I have no representation on 80% of what is happening right now.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:05 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
(I fucking hate committees, btw. I understand why they exist but it feels like I have no representation on 80% of what is happening right now.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:05 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
He didn't kowtow to the God Emperor quickly or passionately enough. They know he still hates the guy and is only faking it until he makes it.
He deserves an Oscar. That star-fucking grin he had behind Trump during the entire Congressional address was something special. There should have been cartoon hearts pouring out of his eyes.
posted by archimago at 9:05 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
He deserves an Oscar. That star-fucking grin he had behind Trump during the entire Congressional address was something special. There should have been cartoon hearts pouring out of his eyes.
posted by archimago at 9:05 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
On the subject of Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao's plan to sell off our highways to private entities, how's that working out for Hampton Roads? With tunnel toll bills as high as $18,000, women plead for relief in Portsmouth and Norfolk:
posted by indubitable at 9:11 AM on March 15, 2017 [78 favorites]
When Virginia launched an infrastructure upgrade and tolls at the Midtown and Downtown tunnels, critics warned that Hampton Roads’ poorest drivers would shoulder the heaviest burden. People who rely on the tubes have some of the lowest incomes in the state, which means they have less to spend on travel. Portsmouth workers like Reynolds cross the Elizabeth River more than anyone else because the city's job base is much smaller than those in Norfolk and Virginia Beach.Of course, it's probably purely a coincidence that Portsmouth is a majority Black city. So this is what we have to look forward to: selective sales of our highway systems that target the poorest Americans and racial minorities, a mountain of bullshit fees and "billing errors" that always seem to work out in favor of the toll operators and zero oversight by whatever minimal regulatory bodies that were supposed to look after this in the first place.
[...]
Virginia partnered with ERC to build a second Midtown Tunnel tube, renovate the existing tunnels and extend the MLK Freeway to Interstate 264. In exchange for operating and maintaining the roads, ERC gets an average annual profit of 13.5 percent over 58 years.
[...]
Norfolk resident Tamaia Camp owes $18,396 for 981 crossings. She said she was earning about $1,000 per month as a cafeteria worker at Douglass Park Elementary before she quit in April because a fifth-grader punched her in the back while she was pregnant. She said she was already recovering from a back injury at Wal-Mart, her previous employer.
[...]
To crack down on scofflaws, ERC puts registration holds on vehicles whose owners don’t pay on time.
CEO Greg Woodsmall and CFO Anthony Evans wrote in a Jan. 27 financial report that the company wasn't collecting enough money from drivers, so "DMV registration holds and court actions are now fully ramped up. A newly recruited internal collections team are improving results."
That's what happened to Camp, so now her family moves around Norfolk on foot.
posted by indubitable at 9:11 AM on March 15, 2017 [78 favorites]
Id like to take Sessions on a tour of heroin ravaged Louisville, Kentucky and demand an explanation for the lack of similar numbers of marijuana deaths.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:30 AM on March 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:30 AM on March 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
Please don't ruin Katamaris for me too folks.
posted by yellowbinder at 9:31 AM on March 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by yellowbinder at 9:31 AM on March 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
@govtrack
"House Dems (@WhipHoyer) have put up a website where you can vote up or down on #AHCA w/ a map of US sentiment."
ResistRepeal.org
posted by slipthought at 9:36 AM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
"House Dems (@WhipHoyer) have put up a website where you can vote up or down on #AHCA w/ a map of US sentiment."
ResistRepeal.org
posted by slipthought at 9:36 AM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
My admittedly lay-understanding is that if climate change keeps accelerating at its current WTF-y pace, we're going to see a lot more migration from the burning or submerged or famished or poor places to the places with existing infrastructure that have not been totally ravaged or made unlivable by a convulsing planet.
Immigration to the US stabilized under Obama, largely due to economic downturn of 2008. It's a mistake to assume that the United States is as attractive an option for the Americas as Europe is for Africans and the Middle Easterners.
People who migrate to the US would be doing so knowing they will be a marginalized and criminalized underclass (hell even the legal immigrants are a rights restricted underclass). The problem the Europeans are grappling with is a problem of assimilation of immigrants that they grants full rights to.
posted by srboisvert at 9:36 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Immigration to the US stabilized under Obama, largely due to economic downturn of 2008. It's a mistake to assume that the United States is as attractive an option for the Americas as Europe is for Africans and the Middle Easterners.
People who migrate to the US would be doing so knowing they will be a marginalized and criminalized underclass (hell even the legal immigrants are a rights restricted underclass). The problem the Europeans are grappling with is a problem of assimilation of immigrants that they grants full rights to.
posted by srboisvert at 9:36 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
...except in some instances it feels, from a great distance and impressionistically, a lot like how African-Americans had "full rights" in 1930.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:40 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:40 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
> Why those particular divisions exist within the Republican party and why divisions over what, on the outside, seem to be not terribly different positions have spun into hatred and name-calling is left as an exercise for the reader, but it's a hatred less about individuals than it is party ideology and governance.
I wonder if this is one of the few rare situations where it's useful to think in terms of the Russian Revolution. Lenin's (mediocre) book _The State and Revolution_ is in large part devoted to arguing with anarchists who believed the proper course was to smash the state immediately; Lenin's position was that the dictatorship of the proletariat must take hold of the state apparatus and maintain it until the bourgeoisie were entirely suppressed.
Ryan, in this scenario, finds himself uncomfortably positioned as the Lenin of the bourgeoisie, taking and ruthlessly using state power to suppress all opposition to capitalism, white supremacy, and patriarchy. The Freedom Caucus are understood as something like anarchists, albeit anarchists with Black Hundredist leanings, demanding the immediate dissolution of the state without regard for whether preserving it will help them reach any particular goal.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:48 AM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I wonder if this is one of the few rare situations where it's useful to think in terms of the Russian Revolution. Lenin's (mediocre) book _The State and Revolution_ is in large part devoted to arguing with anarchists who believed the proper course was to smash the state immediately; Lenin's position was that the dictatorship of the proletariat must take hold of the state apparatus and maintain it until the bourgeoisie were entirely suppressed.
Ryan, in this scenario, finds himself uncomfortably positioned as the Lenin of the bourgeoisie, taking and ruthlessly using state power to suppress all opposition to capitalism, white supremacy, and patriarchy. The Freedom Caucus are understood as something like anarchists, albeit anarchists with Black Hundredist leanings, demanding the immediate dissolution of the state without regard for whether preserving it will help them reach any particular goal.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:48 AM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
To me it has seemed for quite a while that the only successful* aspect of the GOP approach to immigration "reform" has been to render the country a less desirable place to visit/live.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:48 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 9:48 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Just got an email from my unit's business administrator exhorting us to complete our annual Conflict of Interest forms. The fact that I, a lowly technology-maker-goer, have to annually report on whether or not I own any stock in anything that might be construed as a conflict of interest with stuff the university may or may not be developing in a lab somewhere, and that I have to do this every single year, yet apparently the President and his cronies do not is absurd.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:55 AM on March 15, 2017 [82 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:55 AM on March 15, 2017 [82 favorites]
The Freedom Caucus are understood as something like anarchists, albeit anarchists with Black Hundredist leanings, demanding the immediate dissolution of the state without regard for whether preserving it will help them reach any particular goal.
That's not at all the read I get of them. I think of them more as extreme ideological purists who are keen on inquisitorial purges of any and all heresy rather than anarchists.
Their product may be the same though.
posted by srboisvert at 9:58 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's not at all the read I get of them. I think of them more as extreme ideological purists who are keen on inquisitorial purges of any and all heresy rather than anarchists.
Their product may be the same though.
posted by srboisvert at 9:58 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, they're only anarchists for the purposes of the analogy to the Russian Revolution. "anarchists for the bourgeoisie" isn't really a coherent political concept.
Really, the only thing you can say about bourgeois anarchists is that they make terrible roommates. literally the worst.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Really, the only thing you can say about bourgeois anarchists is that they make terrible roommates. literally the worst.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think of them more as extreme ideological purists who are keen on inquisitorial purges of any and all heresy rather than anarchists.
Yeah, I think trying to distinguish between "people who hate government and want to drown it in a bathtub" and "anarchists" may be a distinction without a difference.
But maybe -- "anarchists" like to believe that power vacuums can stay vacuums, that if they take down the current government, then no one will have power over them.
I think many Tea Partiers suffer from this same delusion, but at least some seem to realize that human nature abhors a power vacuum, and to (I think rightly) deduce that corporate power is likely to fill that vacuum, in the US. They are fine with this.
(Of course, in most places it's gangs and war lords, but corporations have a head start here.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:06 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I think trying to distinguish between "people who hate government and want to drown it in a bathtub" and "anarchists" may be a distinction without a difference.
But maybe -- "anarchists" like to believe that power vacuums can stay vacuums, that if they take down the current government, then no one will have power over them.
I think many Tea Partiers suffer from this same delusion, but at least some seem to realize that human nature abhors a power vacuum, and to (I think rightly) deduce that corporate power is likely to fill that vacuum, in the US. They are fine with this.
(Of course, in most places it's gangs and war lords, but corporations have a head start here.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:06 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
The fact that I, a lowly technology-maker-goer, have to annually report on whether or not I own any stock in anything that might be construed as a conflict of interest with stuff the university may or may not be developing in a lab somewhere, and that I have to do this every single year, yet apparently the President and his cronies do not is absurd.
One thing I hope Dems do if they ever get control of Congress again is to pass legislation mandating that the President and all members of the administration are subject to -all- laws and regulations regarding conflicts of interest. It's absolutely ridiculous that we've been depending on "norms" all this time. (Other things on the wish list: pass a new VRA, require that all Pres. candidates release (at least) the last 10 years of their tax returns in full, strengthen the anti-nepotism laws to cover all paid advisors, whether paid or not.)
posted by longdaysjourney at 10:10 AM on March 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
One thing I hope Dems do if they ever get control of Congress again is to pass legislation mandating that the President and all members of the administration are subject to -all- laws and regulations regarding conflicts of interest. It's absolutely ridiculous that we've been depending on "norms" all this time. (Other things on the wish list: pass a new VRA, require that all Pres. candidates release (at least) the last 10 years of their tax returns in full, strengthen the anti-nepotism laws to cover all paid advisors, whether paid or not.)
posted by longdaysjourney at 10:10 AM on March 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
Are we still waiting on an announcement from Comey re FBI investigation into Trump/Trump campaign associates?
posted by birdheist at 10:13 AM on March 15, 2017
posted by birdheist at 10:13 AM on March 15, 2017
NYT: Rachel Maddow Lands a Scoop, Then Makes Viewers Wait
Wait, the NYT is complaining that Maddow made people wait a few minutes?
The same NYT that, literally, sat on a story proving Junior's lying about Iraq for months because they didn't think the truth about him should influence the 2004 elections?
That NYT?
Fuck the NYT.
posted by sotonohito at 10:15 AM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
Wait, the NYT is complaining that Maddow made people wait a few minutes?
The same NYT that, literally, sat on a story proving Junior's lying about Iraq for months because they didn't think the truth about him should influence the 2004 elections?
That NYT?
Fuck the NYT.
posted by sotonohito at 10:15 AM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
Anarchists want a self-organizing utopia, the Tea Partiers want Snow Crash.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:16 AM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:16 AM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
The charges against the Yahoo hackers seem to be the FBI announcement.
We're going to be waiting indefinitely on any word from Comey re the supposed Tru o investigation. Comey has been Trump's man from the beginning.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:17 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
We're going to be waiting indefinitely on any word from Comey re the supposed Tru o investigation. Comey has been Trump's man from the beginning.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:17 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Freedom Caucus are understood as something like anarchists
I feel like they fit more under the concept of anomie rather than anarchy. I think there have been some studies linking anomie and racism and authoritarianism, but I haven't read through them in depth [she said as she opened google scholar and neglected her actual work].
posted by melissasaurus at 10:22 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I feel like they fit more under the concept of anomie rather than anarchy. I think there have been some studies linking anomie and racism and authoritarianism, but I haven't read through them in depth [she said as she opened google scholar and neglected her actual work].
posted by melissasaurus at 10:22 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I came here to see if John Marshall's analysis had been posted, and it has, but I think folks here are seriously underemphasizing what he says.
I mean, I get that it's easy to feel demoralized and that it feels like any kind of optimism has been forcibly burned away by the ongoing dumpster fire but...
It seems like the Republicans are in a very, very rough spot around Obamacare. I mean, the level of in-fighting that's already happening is a lot. The current bill is almost certain to fail.
And what then? Just the defeat (or more likely withdrawal) of the bill will add stress to the already high tension between the Republican factions. And it will be a big blow to Trump's ego (and therefore probably emotional stability) and his reputation as a winner.
The heart of the problem--the collision between Republican ideology, driven by the hard-liners in the Freedom Caucus and the reality that taking away health insurance from millions of Americans would be an ethical and political disaster--isn't going to go away and isn't easily solvable, for any skilled negotiator or consensus builder. And when the leader of your party is pretty much the opposite of a consensus builder...
posted by overglow at 10:25 AM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
I mean, I get that it's easy to feel demoralized and that it feels like any kind of optimism has been forcibly burned away by the ongoing dumpster fire but...
It seems like the Republicans are in a very, very rough spot around Obamacare. I mean, the level of in-fighting that's already happening is a lot. The current bill is almost certain to fail.
And what then? Just the defeat (or more likely withdrawal) of the bill will add stress to the already high tension between the Republican factions. And it will be a big blow to Trump's ego (and therefore probably emotional stability) and his reputation as a winner.
The heart of the problem--the collision between Republican ideology, driven by the hard-liners in the Freedom Caucus and the reality that taking away health insurance from millions of Americans would be an ethical and political disaster--isn't going to go away and isn't easily solvable, for any skilled negotiator or consensus builder. And when the leader of your party is pretty much the opposite of a consensus builder...
posted by overglow at 10:25 AM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
Could a single State - ideally a large "Purple" one (Ohio, Florida for example) make it a requirement to be on the Presidential ballot that candidates have released their tax returns? States seem to have a lot of discretion around this kind of thing but not sure where it ends?
posted by Rumple at 10:30 AM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 10:30 AM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Blue-state lawmakers want to keep Trump off 2020 ballot unless he releases tax returns
"A pair of Maryland Democrats on Tuesday announced they would introduce a bill mandating the release of five years of tax returns, mirroring similar proposals in New York, Massachusetts, California and Maine."
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:33 AM on March 15, 2017 [38 favorites]
"A pair of Maryland Democrats on Tuesday announced they would introduce a bill mandating the release of five years of tax returns, mirroring similar proposals in New York, Massachusetts, California and Maine."
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:33 AM on March 15, 2017 [38 favorites]
A recent poll from Quinnipiac University found 71 percent of voters think “the government should not enforce federal laws against marijuana in states that have legalized medical or recreational use.”
Sessions said on Wednesday that he doesn’t care about being in step with trends.
“We’re not going to worry about being fashionable,” he said.
71% of the people is a "trend"? I get this is a representative republic, but does the voice of the people even factor into this at all?
posted by H. Roark at 10:34 AM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
Sessions said on Wednesday that he doesn’t care about being in step with trends.
“We’re not going to worry about being fashionable,” he said.
71% of the people is a "trend"? I get this is a representative republic, but does the voice of the people even factor into this at all?
posted by H. Roark at 10:34 AM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
71% of the people is a "trend"? I get this is a representative republic, but does the voice of the people even factor into this at all?
Depends on which groups one considers to be people.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:35 AM on March 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
Depends on which groups one considers to be people.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:35 AM on March 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
The current bill is almost certain to fail. ... And when the leader of your party is pretty much the opposite of a consensus builder.
To throw in the opinion of someone who voted for their first Democratic presidential candidate this election, this is a useful talking point. I was probably a not-very-good-conservative to begin with, but when I hear about a candidate who doesn't care about policy, I feel obligated to look into my other options. And when I hear that one of those other options very much cares about policy, I start thinking she might not be so bad after all.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:37 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
To throw in the opinion of someone who voted for their first Democratic presidential candidate this election, this is a useful talking point. I was probably a not-very-good-conservative to begin with, but when I hear about a candidate who doesn't care about policy, I feel obligated to look into my other options. And when I hear that one of those other options very much cares about policy, I start thinking she might not be so bad after all.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:37 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
I guess I'm back in the election threads again. Run! Save yourselves before you get sucked back in!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:38 AM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:38 AM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
Dear US American MeFites,
Today is (almost was as it's ending in 20 minutes) election day here in the Netherlands. We really really don't need a little Donald of our own.
Can you please spare a good thought/vibe/whatever it is you do for us? I'm worried. Thank you so much.
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:39 AM on March 15, 2017 [94 favorites]
Today is (almost was as it's ending in 20 minutes) election day here in the Netherlands. We really really don't need a little Donald of our own.
Can you please spare a good thought/vibe/whatever it is you do for us? I'm worried. Thank you so much.
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:39 AM on March 15, 2017 [94 favorites]
Could a single State - ideally a large "Purple" one (Ohio, Florida for example) make it a requirement to be on the Presidential ballot that candidates have released their tax returns?
From OnceUponATime's link:
posted by Etrigan at 10:39 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
From OnceUponATime's link:
Hoylman and other lawmakers say Laurence Tribe, a constitutional-law scholar at Harvard University, told them requiring tax disclosures would be constitutional under the broad powers that states have to control ballot access.However, U.S. Term Limits v. Thornton holds that states cannot impose additional requirements on candidates for Congress, and that would likely hold for the Presidency as well, especially if it were clearly an anti-Trump measure. Three of the five who ruled against term limits are still on the court, too.
posted by Etrigan at 10:39 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
“We’re not going to worry about being fashionable,” he said.
im giving myself a bloody nose trying to set this stupid smug racist baby on fire with my mind
posted by poffin boffin at 10:41 AM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
im giving myself a bloody nose trying to set this stupid smug racist baby on fire with my mind
posted by poffin boffin at 10:41 AM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
> Could a single State - ideally a large "Purple" one (Ohio, Florida for example) make it a requirement to be on the Presidential ballot that candidates have released their tax returns? States seem to have a lot of discretion around this kind of thing but not sure where it ends?
A bunch of states are already writing bills saying that presidential candidates must release their tax returns in order to appear on the ballot (I think Hawaii was the first... not sure if any non-blue states are participating).
Unfortunately, it does not seem at all clear that such a requirement would be constitutional. Even if it were, I can't imagine our institutions actually enforcing such rule.
Incidentally, while googling around for links about the constitutionality of a tax return release requirement, I found a right-wing site that dismissed the idea and said the bills are being written "in response to the demands of the far-left so-called “Resistance.”" Which I found very pleasing, in a "u triggered bro?" way. So many hyphenated adjectives indicating contempt! and then scorn quotes to top it off! The fascists really don't like the idea of a Resistance, do they? Just can't handle it.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:41 AM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
A bunch of states are already writing bills saying that presidential candidates must release their tax returns in order to appear on the ballot (I think Hawaii was the first... not sure if any non-blue states are participating).
Unfortunately, it does not seem at all clear that such a requirement would be constitutional. Even if it were, I can't imagine our institutions actually enforcing such rule.
Incidentally, while googling around for links about the constitutionality of a tax return release requirement, I found a right-wing site that dismissed the idea and said the bills are being written "in response to the demands of the far-left so-called “Resistance.”" Which I found very pleasing, in a "u triggered bro?" way. So many hyphenated adjectives indicating contempt! and then scorn quotes to top it off! The fascists really don't like the idea of a Resistance, do they? Just can't handle it.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:41 AM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Dear Too-Ticky, I am very frightened of DutchDonald, too! I am sparing many many thoughts and good vibes. Godspeed, you guys.
posted by Don Pepino at 10:43 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 10:43 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Could a single State - ideally a large "Purple" one (Ohio, Florida for example) make it a requirement to be on the Presidential ballot that candidates have released their tax returns?
I'd be sort of surprised if it were constitutional -- there's an analog in _Thornton_ where the court said that (1) the only qualifications for [legislative] office are those in the Constitution, and that if you want to change those you need to change the Constitution, and (2) laws that restrict ballot access instead of formally forbidding a run count as qualifications.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:44 AM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'd be sort of surprised if it were constitutional -- there's an analog in _Thornton_ where the court said that (1) the only qualifications for [legislative] office are those in the Constitution, and that if you want to change those you need to change the Constitution, and (2) laws that restrict ballot access instead of formally forbidding a run count as qualifications.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:44 AM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump v US intelligence: growing feud puts NSA's legislative priority at risk
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:44 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:44 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I recently had an illuminating experience...
<snip>
...Tell me again how BIG GOVERNMENT is the problem, GOP. I fucking dare you.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 7:56 AM on March 14 [195 favorites +] [!]
I will never ever for the life of me figure out why my dear neighbours to the south are the only country in the world that will trumpet the need for free markets and champion the growth, mergers & acquisitions that seem imperative for efficiency and (yet) completely fail to apply the principles of economies-of-scale to means of protecting the commons & common good.
Why is it that markets like health insurance which, when administrated as a universal single payer market, can both most efficiently distribute & minimize risk saving money for every individual and the culture as a whole are somehow demonized because a individual can't be made to reap all of the benefits?
Why isn't there more outrage instead of the usual weird-laughing-and-shrugging-thing when a media person does half heartedly point out that such and such an entity has successfully leveraged a situation involving public assumption of risk for purely private profit?
I live on a island south of the 49th and the degree to which your country differs from mine (not that they're different, just the magnitude) never ceases to astound and confuse me. I love so many of your individuals, but collectively you are bizarre and frightening.
posted by mce at 10:47 AM on March 15, 2017 [26 favorites]
T.D. Strange: Trump v US intelligence: growing feud puts NSA's legislative priority at risk
posted by filthy light thief at 10:51 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The escalating feud between Donald Trump and US intelligence is now putting the top 2017 legislative priority of the intelligence agencies at risk.Huh. This is an interesting turn of events, in favor of the public at large.
At the end of the year, a broad legal authority permitting sweeping surveillance is set to expire. The National Security Agency considers the authority, known as Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (Fisa), pivotal to fighting terrorism and stopping espionage. Civil libertarians consider the measure – the wellspring of the NSA’s Prism and “upstream” mass communications-data collection – unconstitutional.
The typical balance of power on Capitol Hill over surveillance is such that opponents of renewing Section 702 face strong political headwinds. The measure was reauthorized with minimal challenge in 2012.
Now the Republican chairman of the House intelligence committee has thrown reauthorization into question after extensive leaking about Trump and Russia that the president and his Capitol Hill allies have blamed on the US intelligence community.
Asked at a Tuesday press conference about the renewal of section 702 in light of ongoing leaks concerning Trump and Russia, Devin Nunes said, “I think it’s very problematic.”
He continued: “I’ve expressed this concern to the IC [intelligence community]. We have sent them many followup questions as it relates to intelligence that’s been collected. And we expect prompt answers. I think we also expect unprecedented answers from them of the information that we’re going to be asking for.”
posted by filthy light thief at 10:51 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I posted a separate thread for the Netherlands verkiezingen, Too-Ticky. I hope the hand counting goes well tonight!
posted by autopilot at 10:54 AM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by autopilot at 10:54 AM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
mce my theory is, our government is overrun with members of an Ayn Randian death cult that worships money and those who have it. They team up with the racist Puritan shitheads we've always had to make things terrible for everyone who doesn't have money to shelter them.
The greater good, public service, the future: these are all seen as enemies to the accumulation of wealth. It makes no sense, because on a ruined planet all money gets you is a nice hole in the ground to die in more slowly, but then, cults tend to be like that.
posted by emjaybee at 10:54 AM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
The greater good, public service, the future: these are all seen as enemies to the accumulation of wealth. It makes no sense, because on a ruined planet all money gets you is a nice hole in the ground to die in more slowly, but then, cults tend to be like that.
posted by emjaybee at 10:54 AM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
Huh. This is an interesting turn of events, in favor of the public at large.
This is definitely not the way I wanted to see FISA end, but I'll take whatever silver lining I can find right now.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:57 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is definitely not the way I wanted to see FISA end, but I'll take whatever silver lining I can find right now.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:57 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
mce, part of my theory is that this country embodies "the end justifies the means" to an extent rarely seen elsewhere.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:58 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:58 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is definitely not the way I wanted to see FISA end, but I'll take whatever silver lining I can find right now.
Reminder, this is Devin "There’s been major crimes committed, and it's not Trump's ties to Russia, it's the fact we have leaks" Nunes now saying that the NSA has gone too far.
This is also Devin "Don't shackle the NSA now that we have enemies in the Middle East" Nunes, but that was waaay back in 2014, when "These groups (lead by Islamist warlords) threaten U.S. interests in the region and beyond," not in 2017, when this group (lead by the Russian dictator in presidents clothing) threatens democracies in the US and abroad.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:01 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Reminder, this is Devin "There’s been major crimes committed, and it's not Trump's ties to Russia, it's the fact we have leaks" Nunes now saying that the NSA has gone too far.
This is also Devin "Don't shackle the NSA now that we have enemies in the Middle East" Nunes, but that was waaay back in 2014, when "These groups (lead by Islamist warlords) threaten U.S. interests in the region and beyond," not in 2017, when this group (lead by the Russian dictator in presidents clothing) threatens democracies in the US and abroad.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:01 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I came here to see if John Marshall's analysis had been posted, and it has, but I think folks here are seriously underemphasizing what he says.
...
It seems like the Republicans are in a very, very rough spot around Obamacare. I mean, the level of in-fighting that's already happening is a lot. The current bill is almost certain to fail.
This is an interesting point, especially in light of mid-term elections. I know it's exhausting to think about, but while we are only 4 months out from the previous election, there are only 24 months between elections, so we're 1/6 of the way there already. And election campaigning begins in earnest in... May or so. So it's really a bit more than a year away.
In that time, this "repeal" clusterfuck will continue to grind on and pit various factions of Republicans against each other while the Democrats (please, Jesus!) are united against it. The next several months at least is going to be constant bickering between "Trump wants to take away 24M people's health care" and "Trump failed to repeal Obamacare" - two losing narratives for Republicans to run on.
It would probably be a bit much to be optimistic, but I do see a real possibility of Republicans digging their own grave here.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 11:01 AM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
...
It seems like the Republicans are in a very, very rough spot around Obamacare. I mean, the level of in-fighting that's already happening is a lot. The current bill is almost certain to fail.
This is an interesting point, especially in light of mid-term elections. I know it's exhausting to think about, but while we are only 4 months out from the previous election, there are only 24 months between elections, so we're 1/6 of the way there already. And election campaigning begins in earnest in... May or so. So it's really a bit more than a year away.
In that time, this "repeal" clusterfuck will continue to grind on and pit various factions of Republicans against each other while the Democrats (please, Jesus!) are united against it. The next several months at least is going to be constant bickering between "Trump wants to take away 24M people's health care" and "Trump failed to repeal Obamacare" - two losing narratives for Republicans to run on.
It would probably be a bit much to be optimistic, but I do see a real possibility of Republicans digging their own grave here.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 11:01 AM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
I do see a real possibility of Republicans digging their own grave here.
I suppose the problem is that they seem to be digging an unnecessarily large grave.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [46 favorites]
I suppose the problem is that they seem to be digging an unnecessarily large grave.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:04 AM on March 15, 2017 [46 favorites]
Guardian talks to David Cay Johnston: Journalist who got Trump's tax return: 'All I cared was whether it was authentic' He got the document last week, and sent a copy to Spicer hours before airtime to confirm that it was real, on background.
Spicer ignored him. Johnston emailed Spicer again shortly before broadcast, he said, and again received no reply. Then the Trump team briefed the nation’s White House correspondents on what was about to be reported elsewhere – a break from the typical rules of engagement, but not unheard of as a defensive PR tactic.posted by ZeusHumms at 11:10 AM on March 15, 2017 [54 favorites]
“He went and took what I gave him and gave it to other reporters,” said Johnston. “That’s as unethical as it gets. It tells me that the Trump White House lacks honor.”
It tells me that the Trump White House lacks honor
Are we giving out understatement-of-the-year awards yet? I know it's only March but we might have a winner.
posted by dis_integration at 11:12 AM on March 15, 2017 [53 favorites]
Are we giving out understatement-of-the-year awards yet? I know it's only March but we might have a winner.
posted by dis_integration at 11:12 AM on March 15, 2017 [53 favorites]
(As a guilty pleasure, especially when it seems trouble is brewing for Republicans, I read RedState... there's a post there arguing that Ryan should step down as Speaker immediately... and in the comments people are arguing about whether Ryan or Trump is the bigger RINO.)
posted by overglow at 11:13 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by overglow at 11:13 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh, now you see the WH lacks honor. Not Sessions lying about contacts with Russia, then everyone spinning his lies as less than substantial issues. Not the hiring and firing of Flynn. Not Kellyanne Conway telling people to buy Ivanka's shit after the angry orange shouted at Nordstroms.
Really, now?
posted by filthy light thief at 11:14 AM on March 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
Really, now?
posted by filthy light thief at 11:14 AM on March 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
Can we get stats on how much of the proposed rollback of the ACA tax on upper earners ($200K single and $250K couple) is going to flow to high cost of living states like California and New York? We know they hate California and New York. I think it would irk some of the red state reps and their constituents if we figured out where the majority of the one quarter millionaires actually live. Yeah, Warren Buffet has a house in Nebraska, but an awful lot of this money will flow to the coasts, not the middle of the country where people feel left behind and not taken care of by the government.
(I know this is mean-spirited, but I don't know how to wrestle with a pig or punch a nazi without getting dirty and scuffed up.)
posted by puddledork at 11:19 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
(I know this is mean-spirited, but I don't know how to wrestle with a pig or punch a nazi without getting dirty and scuffed up.)
posted by puddledork at 11:19 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump’s hiring the Bear Stearns economist who promised the economy was fine right before it went bankrupt ~ Famous last words: “Don’t panic about the credit market.”
But despite decent paper credentials, Malpass has a striking track record of poor judgment about major economic issues over the past decade — cheerleading the economy on the verge of the Great Recession while warning of a collapse just as recovery was getting underway.
posted by futz at 11:20 AM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
But despite decent paper credentials, Malpass has a striking track record of poor judgment about major economic issues over the past decade — cheerleading the economy on the verge of the Great Recession while warning of a collapse just as recovery was getting underway.
posted by futz at 11:20 AM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
>> U.S. Term Limits v. Thornton holds that states cannot impose additional requirements on candidates for Congress, and that would likely hold for the Presidency as well, especially if it were clearly an anti-Trump measure. Three of the five who ruled against term limits are still on the court, too.
> Including Thomas, who argued that since the printing of ballots was not itself the same as barring a candidate -- because write-ins were still possible, and a write-in candidate could still win election -- the law did not actually impose a restriction on anyone's choice for President.
I understand that people who really dig their Supreme Court jurisprudence admire a lot of Thomas' writing, but this is the kind of lawyerly hair-splitting bullshit that gets me really ticked off. By this reasoning, though, a state could require that someone has to release their tax returns to havetheir names printed on the ballot, but no such requirement is imposed on write-in candidates, except that only completely legible votes with the candidate's full name will be counted as valid. And there it is, a literacy test I can get behind.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if Trump's re-election bid was hoist by the petard primed by Clarence Thomas.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:20 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Including Thomas, who argued that since the printing of ballots was not itself the same as barring a candidate -- because write-ins were still possible, and a write-in candidate could still win election -- the law did not actually impose a restriction on anyone's choice for President.
I understand that people who really dig their Supreme Court jurisprudence admire a lot of Thomas' writing, but this is the kind of lawyerly hair-splitting bullshit that gets me really ticked off. By this reasoning, though, a state could require that someone has to release their tax returns to havetheir names printed on the ballot, but no such requirement is imposed on write-in candidates, except that only completely legible votes with the candidate's full name will be counted as valid. And there it is, a literacy test I can get behind.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if Trump's re-election bid was hoist by the petard primed by Clarence Thomas.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:20 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't know how to wrestle with a pig or punch a nazi without getting dirty and scuffed up.
It looks like, if we're patient, the pig will punch the nazi while the nazi's wrestling with the pig.
posted by Floydd at 11:22 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
It looks like, if we're patient, the pig will punch the nazi while the nazi's wrestling with the pig.
posted by Floydd at 11:22 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
> Wouldn't it be wonderful if Trump's re-election bid was hoist by the petard primed by Clarence Thomas.
Although I'm still rooting for a much earlier "Eh, I'm bored, let Pence do it" exit, followed by a bear.
Betsy DeVos, a distraught nation turns its eyes to you - where are those grizzlies?
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:24 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Although I'm still rooting for a much earlier "Eh, I'm bored, let Pence do it" exit, followed by a bear.
Betsy DeVos, a distraught nation turns its eyes to you - where are those grizzlies?
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:24 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I understand that people who really dig their Supreme Court jurisprudence admire a lot of Thomas' writing,
.... oh my god, what, really? i'm scared to google this.
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:24 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
.... oh my god, what, really? i'm scared to google this.
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:24 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Steven T. Mnuchin, Mr. Trump’s Treasury secretary, gave assurances as recently as last month that “there would be no absolute tax cut for the upper class.” During Mr. Mnuchin’s Senate confirmation hearing, Democrats referred to the promise as the “Mnuchin rule.” That tenet, critics say, has now been violated".
source
posted by H. Roark at 11:25 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
source
posted by H. Roark at 11:25 AM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
>> I understand that people who really dig their Supreme Court jurisprudence admire a lot of Thomas' writing,
> .... oh my god, what, really? i'm scared to google this.
Yeah, sorry, I'm with you on this, but ughhh: "... Thomas has repeatedly led the court back to the original meaning of the Constitution with thought-provoking separate writings that explore the historical record."
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:30 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
> .... oh my god, what, really? i'm scared to google this.
Yeah, sorry, I'm with you on this, but ughhh: "... Thomas has repeatedly led the court back to the original meaning of the Constitution with thought-provoking separate writings that explore the historical record."
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:30 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is it possible that Donald Trump died during a bizarre urine-related accident back in 2013 while hosting the Miss Universe in Russia and Putin replaced him with a look-alike mole the same way the Illuminati replaced Paul McCartney after his death in 1966? Not that I'd want to start a rumor.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:31 AM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:31 AM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
It tells me that the Trump White House lacks honor...
Oh, now you see the WH lacks honor. Not Sessions lying about contacts with Russia, then everyone spinning his lies as less than substantial issues. Not the hiring and firing of Flynn. Not Kellyanne Conway telling people to buy Ivanka's shit after the angry orange shouted at Nordstroms.
Johnston is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who's been covering Trump's financial fuckery since the early 1990s. I think his simple statement speaks more loudly than a thousand screaming clickbait headlines about how some TV commentator "eviscerated" the president by calling him orange or whatever.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:33 AM on March 15, 2017 [45 favorites]
Oh, now you see the WH lacks honor. Not Sessions lying about contacts with Russia, then everyone spinning his lies as less than substantial issues. Not the hiring and firing of Flynn. Not Kellyanne Conway telling people to buy Ivanka's shit after the angry orange shouted at Nordstroms.
Johnston is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who's been covering Trump's financial fuckery since the early 1990s. I think his simple statement speaks more loudly than a thousand screaming clickbait headlines about how some TV commentator "eviscerated" the president by calling him orange or whatever.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:33 AM on March 15, 2017 [45 favorites]
Republican Rep. Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska talked to his constituents in an open town hall meeting, which is now news-worthy in itself, as is his interest in posing questions to his constituents like who is right to be angry, the farmer with the higher health costs under ACA, or the woman with the pre-existing condition who said ACA is "a godsend" for her. He's keen on debating the AHCA, but ..
As an indirect reply of sorts, Governors in charge of expansion states, 16 of them Republican, have also been in favor of retaining the [Medicaid] expansion. Many have acknowledged the program's importance to their states in recommendation letters solicited by Republican congressional leaders.
And the block grant is bullshit, as said in kinder words by Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D).
posted by filthy light thief at 11:35 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
It is discomforting that this is so rushed. I'll be honest with you. It would be better to have more time to unpack some of the thoughtful questions and challenges that you're raising, as well as others. I would prefer to have that time. But we are where we are. And the House has acted. And this is just a start.Dude, you're part of the system. You can put the brakes on this and slow it down. That said, I rather enjoyed Steve Inskeep trying to put words into Fortenberry's mouth:
INSKEEP: Were you on your way to saying that if you're in this audience and you're going to end up under this change to the health care law paying more in insurance premiums, which undoubtedly will be the case for at least some people, that, well, that's your responsibility and pay up? Is that where you were going with that?Also, he failed to answer Inskeep's question of taking money out of Medicaid in future years would likely make it even less sustainable, instead saying "we'll let the States figure it out."
FORTENBERRY: No. [Detour into personal stories that show "We have to have a system that's fair and works for everyone. What we are currently doing is not sustainable. It does help some people but it hurts many others."]
As an indirect reply of sorts, Governors in charge of expansion states, 16 of them Republican, have also been in favor of retaining the [Medicaid] expansion. Many have acknowledged the program's importance to their states in recommendation letters solicited by Republican congressional leaders.
And the block grant is bullshit, as said in kinder words by Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D).
posted by filthy light thief at 11:35 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
“He went and took what I gave him and gave it to other reporters,” said Johnston. “That’s as unethical as it gets. It tells me that the Trump White House lacks honor.”
This is infuriating. What part of "the free press is the enemy" is the free press having a hard time understanding?
posted by LastOfHisKind at 11:36 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is infuriating. What part of "the free press is the enemy" is the free press having a hard time understanding?
posted by LastOfHisKind at 11:36 AM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Can we get stats on how much of the proposed rollback of the ACA tax on upper earners ($200K single and $250K couple) is going to flow to high cost of living states like California and New York? We know they hate California and New York.
...
I know this is mean-spirited, but I don't know how to wrestle with a pig or punch a nazi without getting dirty and scuffed up.
Two thoughts: First, this is a really good idea and a great way to steal back the framing on income inequality and tax cuts for the wealthy in general; it takes money out of the pockets of Real Americans and hands it over to the Coastal Elites! Second, the fact that an idea as common-sense as this might be considered "mean-spirited" is a great example of the timidity that gets us steamrolled. That's not even playing dirty, it's just refusing to politely acquiesce to your opponents' worldview.
posted by contraption at 11:38 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
...
I know this is mean-spirited, but I don't know how to wrestle with a pig or punch a nazi without getting dirty and scuffed up.
Two thoughts: First, this is a really good idea and a great way to steal back the framing on income inequality and tax cuts for the wealthy in general; it takes money out of the pockets of Real Americans and hands it over to the Coastal Elites! Second, the fact that an idea as common-sense as this might be considered "mean-spirited" is a great example of the timidity that gets us steamrolled. That's not even playing dirty, it's just refusing to politely acquiesce to your opponents' worldview.
posted by contraption at 11:38 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Johnson is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who's been covering Trump's financial fuckery since the early 1990s. I think his simple statement speaks more loudly than a thousand screaming clickbait headlines about how some TV commentator "eviscerated" the president by calling him orange or whatever.
Thats great, but I'm still confused why it took him almost two months into this garbage fire of a presidency to say the White House has no honor.
This is infuriating. What part of "the free press is the enemy" is the free press having a hard time understanding?
Exactly. That tweet was on Feb. 17, 2017, almost a month ago.
Still, I'll take all the voices we can get to say "the White House is without honor," in the off-chance that it changes something.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:40 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thats great, but I'm still confused why it took him almost two months into this garbage fire of a presidency to say the White House has no honor.
This is infuriating. What part of "the free press is the enemy" is the free press having a hard time understanding?
Exactly. That tweet was on Feb. 17, 2017, almost a month ago.
Still, I'll take all the voices we can get to say "the White House is without honor," in the off-chance that it changes something.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:40 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
He went and took what I gave him and gave it to other reporters,” said Johnston. “That’s as unethical as it gets. It tells me that the Trump White House lacks honor.”
This is why I hate journalists. The Trump White House lacks honor because they violated a social protocol where journalists expect a chummy relationship with the people they're supposed to be watching that will protect their "scoops"? Not because he's a goddamn fascist?
posted by corb at 11:41 AM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
This is why I hate journalists. The Trump White House lacks honor because they violated a social protocol where journalists expect a chummy relationship with the people they're supposed to be watching that will protect their "scoops"? Not because he's a goddamn fascist?
posted by corb at 11:41 AM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Metafilter: I love so many of your individuals, but collectively you are bizarre and frightening.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:42 AM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:42 AM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
it...it's okay to point out the devil in the details sometimes. really.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:43 AM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:43 AM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'd be sort of surprised if it were constitutional -- there's an analog in _Thornton_ where the court said that (1) the only qualifications for [legislative] office are those in the Constitution, and that if you want to change those you need to change the Constitution, and (2) laws that restrict ballot access instead of formally forbidding a run count as qualifications.
I don't think it's that simple; states have pretty broad authority when it comes to ballot access. Consider... I decide in 2020 to run for President under the banner of the Metafilter People's Front of Judea Party. I go to California, New York, and Texas and inform them of my decision. Am I then on the ballots? Why not? After all, I meet all the qualifications in the Constitution.
Interestingly if the right of states to require tax disclosure were upheld it may well rely in part on Bush-v-Gore.
posted by Justinian at 11:44 AM on March 15, 2017
I don't think it's that simple; states have pretty broad authority when it comes to ballot access. Consider... I decide in 2020 to run for President under the banner of the Metafilter People's Front of Judea Party. I go to California, New York, and Texas and inform them of my decision. Am I then on the ballots? Why not? After all, I meet all the qualifications in the Constitution.
Interestingly if the right of states to require tax disclosure were upheld it may well rely in part on Bush-v-Gore.
posted by Justinian at 11:44 AM on March 15, 2017
Yeah, I don't really understand the reaction about the "without honor" thing. It seems clear from context that he was not saying, "Until now, I thought this guy was great!" If we had asked him for a reaction about all the other bad stuff when it occurred, he probably would have criticized those things, too.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:48 AM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 11:48 AM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
FORTENBERRY: ...What we are currently doing is not sustainable. It does help some people but it hurts many others.
So...you're swapping it for a system that is not sustainable, helps fewer people, and hurts larger numbers?
posted by nubs at 11:49 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
So...you're swapping it for a system that is not sustainable, helps fewer people, and hurts larger numbers?
posted by nubs at 11:49 AM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ugggh, my local absentee Representative has finally scheduled a town hall.
At 8:30 on a Saturday morning.
posted by Etrigan at 11:49 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
At 8:30 on a Saturday morning.
posted by Etrigan at 11:49 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
So...you're swapping it for a system that is not sustainable, helps fewer people, and hurts larger numbers?
Oh, don't worry. When enough young people are attracted to health care, everything will turn up daises. Or somthing.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:51 AM on March 15, 2017
Oh, don't worry. When enough young people are attracted to health care, everything will turn up daises. Or somthing.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:51 AM on March 15, 2017
Yeah, I don't really understand the reaction about the "without honor" thing. It seems clear from context that he was not saying, "Until now, I thought this guy was great!"
On reflection, I find that I'm really more upset about "that's as unethical as it gets" applied to chummy journalist social protocols.
Because that's the thing, right? This guy is supposedly a journalist crusading for truth? But he still sent the tax return to Spicey to confirm, because he's used to a friendly relationship with the people he's supposed to be a watchdog against. And that let Spicey get ahead of the problem. His stupid chummy protocols did real damage to the truth, and he's complaining about how they were violated when they themselves are the problem.
posted by corb at 11:53 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
On reflection, I find that I'm really more upset about "that's as unethical as it gets" applied to chummy journalist social protocols.
Because that's the thing, right? This guy is supposedly a journalist crusading for truth? But he still sent the tax return to Spicey to confirm, because he's used to a friendly relationship with the people he's supposed to be a watchdog against. And that let Spicey get ahead of the problem. His stupid chummy protocols did real damage to the truth, and he's complaining about how they were violated when they themselves are the problem.
posted by corb at 11:53 AM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
8:30 on a Saturday morning sounds better than the 2 in the afternoon on workdays you see for a lot of "Town Halls". At least working people can get to the Saturday one, even if they have to wake up a bit early.
posted by sotonohito at 11:56 AM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 11:56 AM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
Huh. 17 Republicans sign resolution to fight climate change.
Several Republicans who signed the resolution represent parts of the country most affected. Curbelo hails from Miami, where streets regularly flood at high tide due to rising sea levels.
“This issue was regrettably politicized some 20 or so years ago, and we are in the process of taking some of the politics out, reducing the noise, and focusing on the challenge and on the potential solutions,” Curbelo said in a call with journalists on Tuesday.
"Regrettably politicizes" that is some A++ weaseling out of YOUR party's responsibility here, Curbelo. But as climate change is an emergency, I welcome any signs of sanity by anyone with an R after their name.
posted by emjaybee at 11:56 AM on March 15, 2017 [54 favorites]
Several Republicans who signed the resolution represent parts of the country most affected. Curbelo hails from Miami, where streets regularly flood at high tide due to rising sea levels.
“This issue was regrettably politicized some 20 or so years ago, and we are in the process of taking some of the politics out, reducing the noise, and focusing on the challenge and on the potential solutions,” Curbelo said in a call with journalists on Tuesday.
"Regrettably politicizes" that is some A++ weaseling out of YOUR party's responsibility here, Curbelo. But as climate change is an emergency, I welcome any signs of sanity by anyone with an R after their name.
posted by emjaybee at 11:56 AM on March 15, 2017 [54 favorites]
"Steven T. Mnuchin, Mr. Trump’s Treasury secretary, gave assurances as recently as last month that “there would be no absolute tax cut for the upper class.” During Mr. Mnuchin’s Senate confirmation hearing, Democrats referred to the promise as the “Mnuchin rule.” That tenet, critics say, has now been violated".
It's not violated because Republicans consider $250,000 to $1 million income as middle class.
posted by JackFlash at 12:00 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's not violated because Republicans consider $250,000 to $1 million income as middle class.
posted by JackFlash at 12:00 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Donald Trump on witness list for civil case involving billionaire paedophile Jeffrey Epstein
-- Donald Trump has been place on the witness list for a civil trial involving billionaire paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, a lawyer involved in the case has claimed.
-- He said there is evidence that at least one former employee at Mr Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, was recruited by an associate of Epstein to become involved in alleged sex offences.
-- “Epstein’s phone directory from his computer contains 14 phone numbers for Donald Trump, including emergency numbers, car numbers, and numbers to Trump’s security guard and houseman,” the affidavit reportedly claims.
-- It also quotes an interview with Mr Trump, featured in New York Magazine, in which he said: “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it, Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
And Trump's Labor Secretary pick, Alexander Acosta, gave Epstein a very light sentence and will likely face questions about it at his confirmation hearing. Everywhere you look in this administration you find something unpalatable or illegal.
posted by futz at 12:04 PM on March 15, 2017 [50 favorites]
-- Donald Trump has been place on the witness list for a civil trial involving billionaire paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, a lawyer involved in the case has claimed.
-- He said there is evidence that at least one former employee at Mr Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, was recruited by an associate of Epstein to become involved in alleged sex offences.
-- “Epstein’s phone directory from his computer contains 14 phone numbers for Donald Trump, including emergency numbers, car numbers, and numbers to Trump’s security guard and houseman,” the affidavit reportedly claims.
-- It also quotes an interview with Mr Trump, featured in New York Magazine, in which he said: “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it, Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
And Trump's Labor Secretary pick, Alexander Acosta, gave Epstein a very light sentence and will likely face questions about it at his confirmation hearing. Everywhere you look in this administration you find something unpalatable or illegal.
posted by futz at 12:04 PM on March 15, 2017 [50 favorites]
This isn't 'being chummy,' this is being responsible and giving the subject of a story the chance to comment and confirm, and, hand-in-hand with that, doing everything by-the-book so that he, Johnston, can't be accused of cutting corners.
It's also necessary, as the George W. Bush National Guard story was shut down after the authenticity of the documents Rather presented were questioned, despite the fact that the entire episode never proved that Bush actually had done his military duty. Johnston submitted the tax return for confirmation, and Spicer, as press secretary, is fully aware of the norms he's supposed to operate under. Johnston here is signaling what so many have said -- the danger of the Trump Regime is that they shred norms that have checked power for decades.
posted by Gelatin at 12:05 PM on March 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
It's also necessary, as the George W. Bush National Guard story was shut down after the authenticity of the documents Rather presented were questioned, despite the fact that the entire episode never proved that Bush actually had done his military duty. Johnston submitted the tax return for confirmation, and Spicer, as press secretary, is fully aware of the norms he's supposed to operate under. Johnston here is signaling what so many have said -- the danger of the Trump Regime is that they shred norms that have checked power for decades.
posted by Gelatin at 12:05 PM on March 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
this is being responsible and giving the subject of a story the chance to comment and confirm,
True, but as a reporter I'm of two minds about that standard as it applies to this case.
1) Contacting the subject of an article to get comment/confirmation before publishing is generally good practice, and remains so even in the Trump administration -- reporters need to be open to the possibility that leakers may be giving them bad info, and counter-evidence can prevent overreaching or outright false reporting that would cause more damage to the press than to their actual target. For instance, AP notably contacted the White House the night before publishing their story on DHS memos implementing the first travel ban, and and the fact that the administration could have commented to them and didn't helped defang Spicer's post-publication attacks on the article.
2) When you're just running a document dump and comments from the administration won't add anything, as seems to have been the case with Maddow's story, what's the point? You're not going to preserve your relationship with the White House by following protocol even for stories where it's not useful, because they already hate you.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
True, but as a reporter I'm of two minds about that standard as it applies to this case.
1) Contacting the subject of an article to get comment/confirmation before publishing is generally good practice, and remains so even in the Trump administration -- reporters need to be open to the possibility that leakers may be giving them bad info, and counter-evidence can prevent overreaching or outright false reporting that would cause more damage to the press than to their actual target. For instance, AP notably contacted the White House the night before publishing their story on DHS memos implementing the first travel ban, and and the fact that the administration could have commented to them and didn't helped defang Spicer's post-publication attacks on the article.
2) When you're just running a document dump and comments from the administration won't add anything, as seems to have been the case with Maddow's story, what's the point? You're not going to preserve your relationship with the White House by following protocol even for stories where it's not useful, because they already hate you.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
I dunno, I'll take David Cay Johnston's maybe-slightly-too-cautious-and-deferential approach over Julian Assange's "radical transparency"-as-propaganda any time. Just to draw one possible comparison.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 12:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sessions also calls marijuana a "life-wrecking dependency...that’s only slightly less awful" than heroin.
posted by msalt at 12:12 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's part of me hoping that when he falls from power, my country will be at the point that I can light up a joint legally and watch the news coverage.Move to the West Coast! You can do that right now. Pick, a state, any state.
posted by msalt at 12:12 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Senate hearing on Russian interference in elections (broadly, not Trump-related per se) is happening now; questioning the panelists/witnesses just started. CSPAN link.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:12 PM on March 15, 2017
posted by melissasaurus at 12:12 PM on March 15, 2017
Sessions also calls marijuana a "life-wrecking dependency...that’s only slightly less awful" than heroin.
There's part of me hoping that when he falls from power, my country will be at the point that I can light up a joint legally and watch the news coverage.
Move to the West Coast! You can do that right now. Pick, a state, any state.
That's assuming that Sessions won't last long enough to fuck that all up.
posted by Etrigan at 12:15 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
There's part of me hoping that when he falls from power, my country will be at the point that I can light up a joint legally and watch the news coverage.
Move to the West Coast! You can do that right now. Pick, a state, any state.
That's assuming that Sessions won't last long enough to fuck that all up.
posted by Etrigan at 12:15 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
One thing I hope Dems do if they ever get control of Congress again is to pass legislation mandating that the President and all members of the administration are subject to -all- laws and regulations regarding conflicts of interest.
I don't think state laws requiring tax disclosure would be unconsitutional. Requirements for a number of signatures to get on the ballot were not unconsitutional, and seem like a much closer analogy than an absolute bar on anyone who has served two terms. The conflict of interest law is not in the consitution, either.
But I think it might be easier to get Congress to pass such a bill, especially after AHCA goes down in flames. How many Republicans really want to say they voted against conflict of interest laws applying to the president?
The flip side of warring on somewhat moderate Republicans and even people like Paul Ryan is that those Republicans aren't bound to you any more. They already know you're going to primary them, so they've got nothing to lose.
posted by msalt at 12:16 PM on March 15, 2017
I don't think state laws requiring tax disclosure would be unconsitutional. Requirements for a number of signatures to get on the ballot were not unconsitutional, and seem like a much closer analogy than an absolute bar on anyone who has served two terms. The conflict of interest law is not in the consitution, either.
But I think it might be easier to get Congress to pass such a bill, especially after AHCA goes down in flames. How many Republicans really want to say they voted against conflict of interest laws applying to the president?
The flip side of warring on somewhat moderate Republicans and even people like Paul Ryan is that those Republicans aren't bound to you any more. They already know you're going to primary them, so they've got nothing to lose.
posted by msalt at 12:16 PM on March 15, 2017
One thing I hope Dems do if they ever get control of Congress again is to pass legislation mandating that the President and all members of the administration are subject to -all- laws and regulations regarding conflicts of interest.
The issue in that regard isn't a lack of laws.
posted by Etrigan at 12:17 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The issue in that regard isn't a lack of laws.
posted by Etrigan at 12:17 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
>>There's part of me hoping that when he falls from power, my country will be at the point that I can light up a joint legally and watch the news coverage.
>Move to the West Coast! You can do that right now. Pick, a state, any state.
I am not planning any move to the US anytime in the foreseeable or not so foreseeable future; but thanks - I like an awful lot of you that live there. Happy to stay in Canada and try to stem the populist tide from washing away our somewhat sane, stable governance here.
posted by nubs at 12:21 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've pretty much put the Maddow show back into the "this flavor of prolefeed is not for me" pile. Maddow seems like a genuinely brilliant/good person — I'd vote for her for any office, in a heartbeat — but the talk-radio-on-the-tv style of her show makes it very hard for me to watch. I hope it's effective propaganda, and it very well might actually be effective propaganda, but I don't really want to watch it myself.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:22 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:22 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
MeFi has now corrupted me to the point that when I think of the words "trump" and "honor" I think of this. [NSFW - it's THAT Oglaf strip]
posted by Ber at 12:23 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Ber at 12:23 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Onion: Report: It Unclear Whether Opposition From Every Sector Of American Society Will Have Any Effect On Healthcare Bill Passing
posted by Chrysostom at 12:26 PM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:26 PM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
Um, there's a real theme being developed at this Senate hearing on Russian interference. Mr. Democratic Senator With Gray Wavy Hair is brick-by-bricking that we need Trump's tax returns and other business information to evaluate whether Russia is bribing him. He's not using those words, but it's clear, and he's aiming for "airtight."
posted by prefpara at 12:26 PM on March 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 12:26 PM on March 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
I'm personally aiming for "airtight in a dome filled with bees" for the lot of them.
posted by lydhre at 12:33 PM on March 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 12:33 PM on March 15, 2017 [17 favorites]
Oh sure, you like us when you can smoke weed, but for some reason not when we're a terrifying pit of rabid fascists about to get a neutered-CDC bird flu outbreak
Let's not forget how much I like my socialist health care too!
posted by nubs at 12:34 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Let's not forget how much I like my socialist health care too!
posted by nubs at 12:34 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm personally aiming for "airtight in a dome filled with bees" for the lot of them.
What do you have against bees?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:34 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
What do you have against bees?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:34 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, Atom Eyes, you really need to CTRL+F bees in the last 7 or 8 election threads...
posted by Sophie1 at 12:36 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 12:36 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
sending Atom Eyes off Tehhunding won't bring back our goddamned honey.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:38 PM on March 15, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:38 PM on March 15, 2017 [45 favorites]
EPA filed in the Federal Register their plan to kill the latest fuel efficiency standards.
posted by zachlipton at 12:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think Atom Eyes meant it would be cruel to put bees somewhere without air.
posted by emjaybee at 12:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 12:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'd let the bees out when the beeing was done, I promise.
posted by lydhre at 12:42 PM on March 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 12:42 PM on March 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
Or with Republicans
posted by knapah at 12:42 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by knapah at 12:42 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
the bees will be released from the dome with plaudits and honor once their grim work is done.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:48 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:48 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
EPA filed in the Federal Register their plan to kill the latest fuel efficiency standards.
Republicans want you to spend more money on gas.
File that with all of the other obvious messaging angles that the Democratic Party will never press on...
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:48 PM on March 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
Republicans want you to spend more money on gas.
File that with all of the other obvious messaging angles that the Democratic Party will never press on...
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:48 PM on March 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
Rep. Brat is a no on the AHCA vote in the Budget Committee tomorrow. He's a Freedom Caucus guy who won't support the bill unless it destroys more of Obamacare (including stuff that can't pass through reconciliation). If three more Republicans on the committee balk, the bill isn't advancing. The hearing is tomorrow.
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
genuine question: who is actually in favor of the bill and wants it to pass more or less as is?
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:52 PM on March 15, 2017
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:52 PM on March 15, 2017
Clostridium botulinum colonies, maybe?
posted by Etrigan at 12:53 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 12:53 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't think even Ryan wants it to pass.
posted by corb at 12:54 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by corb at 12:54 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Y'all. Bees die after they sting. Wasps. They can keep stinging.
posted by Weeping_angel at 12:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Weeping_angel at 12:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
We are all human beeings.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am now googling what insects have the worst stings, for political reasons
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [32 favorites]
Get those Japanese bees that beeball rather than sting.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I believe Bullet Ants have the most painful stings. I can neither confirm nor deny that I knew this off the top of my head after watching stupid youtube videos of a crazy dude getting stung on purpose to see what it felt like.
Think of it as the Trump Presidency of the stinging insect world.
posted by Justinian at 12:59 PM on March 15, 2017
Think of it as the Trump Presidency of the stinging insect world.
posted by Justinian at 12:59 PM on March 15, 2017
Bullet ants. How do "waves of burning, throbbing, all-consuming pain that continues unabated for up to 24 hours" sound to you?
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:59 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:59 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sounds like last Nov. 9.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:01 PM on March 15, 2017 [62 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:01 PM on March 15, 2017 [62 favorites]
Jinx, Justinian and rp owe me week-old, unwashed bottles of Coke that are surrounded by scary yellow jackets
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:02 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:02 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I decide in 2020 to run for President under the banner of the Metafilter People's Front of Judea Party.
Splitter.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:04 PM on March 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
They're bees because tradition, guys. Plus ants don't go with a gilded wicker man. It has to be bees. And after, the bees will get a full Triumph with puffy, welt-covered Rs driven before them as captives.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:08 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:08 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
What do you have against bees?
Apologies if this was covered previously and I missed it, but as one of Metafilter's resident population of soft-hearted crouton petters, I want to clarify that I do not want these bees to be honeybees, not only because their stings are relatively low on the pain scale, but beacuse they die in really sad circumstances after stinging.
Instead, I propose that we bring on the wasps, specifically Synoeca septentrionalis for the unbeatable combination of:
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:09 PM on March 15, 2017 [47 favorites]
Apologies if this was covered previously and I missed it, but as one of Metafilter's resident population of soft-hearted crouton petters, I want to clarify that I do not want these bees to be honeybees, not only because their stings are relatively low on the pain scale, but beacuse they die in really sad circumstances after stinging.
Instead, I propose that we bring on the wasps, specifically Synoeca septentrionalis for the unbeatable combination of:
tl;dr: SAVE THE BEES. BRING ON THE RESISTANCE WASPS.grotesquely painful stings, each inflicting 150 minutes of pain at the 4 level on the Schmidt insect sting index whereas small bees only do 2 minutes on a 1 level. Similarly, the Starr pain index lists them as a 4.
flying, unlike other members of the Schmidt insect sting/Starr sting pain level 4 club like bullet ants, because Paul Ryan has an undeniably sting-a-ble granny-starving face
eusocial, so there are a lot of them, plus they're definitely socialists or RINO's at the very least
aggression, so they actually don't mind this
have been known to eat carrion, so [insert comment here about a Trump appointee finally doing good]
here is a video of a colony beginning to beat their wings in slow horrible horrible twitching sync in prepartion for fucking someone the fuck up
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:09 PM on March 15, 2017 [47 favorites]
Mod note: Folks, let's bring this thing back from beetown.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [54 favorites]
Just in case anyone was on the fence about doing this "Ides of Trump" postcard thing, I can report that it is very easy and very satisfying.
I bought a package of blank 5x7" index cards on my lunchbreak, and wrote "You're fired" on eight of them with pink highlighter.
Below I wrote a different reason on each card...
* For palling around with Putin
* For corruptly using your office to make money
* For all the shamelessalternative facts LIES
* For being heartless to desperate refugees fleeing with their children for their lives
* For gutting our diplomatic efforts to prevent war
* For encouraging white nationalists and Islamophobes to believe their ideas are welcome in your government
* For making hardworking, tax paying people (who want nothing more than to be allowed to make their immigration legal) live in fear
* For making me fear I won't be able to afford my kids' medicine anymore.
Put the White House address on the back of each one with a stamp, and dropped them in the mail. It feels really good. Highly recommended. If you can't get yours into the mail until tomorrow, I think it's still fine -- the post office will be dumping bags of these in the White House mailroom for at least a week regardless.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:12 PM on March 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
I bought a package of blank 5x7" index cards on my lunchbreak, and wrote "You're fired" on eight of them with pink highlighter.
Below I wrote a different reason on each card...
* For palling around with Putin
* For corruptly using your office to make money
* For all the shameless
* For being heartless to desperate refugees fleeing with their children for their lives
* For gutting our diplomatic efforts to prevent war
* For encouraging white nationalists and Islamophobes to believe their ideas are welcome in your government
* For making hardworking, tax paying people (who want nothing more than to be allowed to make their immigration legal) live in fear
* For making me fear I won't be able to afford my kids' medicine anymore.
Put the White House address on the back of each one with a stamp, and dropped them in the mail. It feels really good. Highly recommended. If you can't get yours into the mail until tomorrow, I think it's still fine -- the post office will be dumping bags of these in the White House mailroom for at least a week regardless.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:12 PM on March 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
buzzkill.
posted by prefpara at 1:12 PM on March 15, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 1:12 PM on March 15, 2017 [25 favorites]
[i had to]
posted by prefpara at 1:12 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 1:12 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Why, I've got some bright red postcards right here! Thanks for the reminder, OUAT!
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:14 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:14 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't think state laws requiring tax disclosure would be unconsitutional. Requirements for a number of signatures to get on the ballot were not unconsitutional, and seem like a much closer analogy than an absolute bar on anyone who has served two terms.
It would be an interesting argument to see, anyway. I'm more on the side of signature requirements being legitimate and necessary parts of election management, while a tax disclosure requirement isn't. But justices gonna do what they want.
To be clear, I'm in favor of forcible release; you could do it by just directing the IRS to release their records over the last n years for everyone who's registered as a candidate with the FEC. I'm only offering an empirical prediction.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:17 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
It would be an interesting argument to see, anyway. I'm more on the side of signature requirements being legitimate and necessary parts of election management, while a tax disclosure requirement isn't. But justices gonna do what they want.
To be clear, I'm in favor of forcible release; you could do it by just directing the IRS to release their records over the last n years for everyone who's registered as a candidate with the FEC. I'm only offering an empirical prediction.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:17 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'll just leave this here:
@jbarro: Oklahoma State Senator fails the live boy/dead girl test: Story.
posted by mosk at 1:22 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
@jbarro: Oklahoma State Senator fails the live boy/dead girl test: Story.
posted by mosk at 1:22 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
I wrote one for President Bannon, too. Why not spread the love?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:23 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:23 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I enjoyed doing my Ides of Trump postcards, printed on obnoxious pussy hat pink paper. It was fun. I left out a little "station" at my volunteer job if anyone else wants to, though I suspect not. After a friend of mine asked what I was doing, she was all, you know he's never going to see it and nobody's going to read it, right? Yeah, but it's still fun to clog the mail.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:29 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:29 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Just in case anyone was on the fence about doing this "Ides of Trump" postcard thing, I can report that it is very easy and very satisfying
Agreed. A friend of mine hosted a postcard party, and I created/decorated a dozen postcards, then filled out probably six or seven of them. Some people were snarky, some people were very detailed and reasoned - I was somewhere in the middle. It was actually nice to think of a subject, create a postcard for it, and then write 50 words about my feelings on the matter. It was both cathartic and soothing, plus it was good company.
All in all, the organizer reported 150 filled out postcards from the event. 10/10 would do again.
posted by dinty_moore at 1:29 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Agreed. A friend of mine hosted a postcard party, and I created/decorated a dozen postcards, then filled out probably six or seven of them. Some people were snarky, some people were very detailed and reasoned - I was somewhere in the middle. It was actually nice to think of a subject, create a postcard for it, and then write 50 words about my feelings on the matter. It was both cathartic and soothing, plus it was good company.
All in all, the organizer reported 150 filled out postcards from the event. 10/10 would do again.
posted by dinty_moore at 1:29 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
mosk: @jbarro: Oklahoma State Senator fails the live boy/dead girl test: Story.
Oklahoma Senator Ralph Shortey is under investigation for an incident at a motel with a teenage boy.
Cleveland County District Attorney Greg Mashburn told NewsChannel 4 the boy is 16 or 17, and that is the age of consent in Oklahoma.
...
The republican from Oklahoma City is married with children.
I'm just waiting for someone to come up with a Trump-like compliment of Shortey
futz: quotes an interview with Mr Trump, featured in New York Magazine, in which he said: “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it, Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
And here's his page on Ballotpedia, which informs me he has ONE issue of note: "Human fetuses in food"
posted by filthy light thief at 1:30 PM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
Oklahoma Senator Ralph Shortey is under investigation for an incident at a motel with a teenage boy.
Cleveland County District Attorney Greg Mashburn told NewsChannel 4 the boy is 16 or 17, and that is the age of consent in Oklahoma.
...
The republican from Oklahoma City is married with children.
I'm just waiting for someone to come up with a Trump-like compliment of Shortey
futz: quotes an interview with Mr Trump, featured in New York Magazine, in which he said: “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it, Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
And here's his page on Ballotpedia, which informs me he has ONE issue of note: "Human fetuses in food"
In January 2012, Shortey introduced legislation to ban the use of aborted human fetuses in food. Shortey told members of the media that he had conducted Internet research which led him to believe a ban was necessary. The United States Food and Drug Administration said it was unaware of any concern. Specifically, the legislation would have prohibited the manufacture or sale of any food in which aborted fetuses were used in developing any of the ingredients. Shortey said that he was not aware of any Oklahoma companies that use aborted human fetuses.Time to order more brain bleach.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:30 PM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
I wanted to write "sic semper tyrannis" but then thought that might be considered a threat. (I mean, it is, but, you know.) I opted instead for sort of cryptic expressions of "I am on to you, this shit does not work on me."
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:30 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:30 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
It looks increasingly like the Obamacare repeal is dead in the water. I wonder what the implications for abject failure on health reform are for the next stage of Ryan's legislative agenda, (additional) massive tax cuts for the wealthy. That should be trivial to pass for Republican majorities, provided they sunset in 10 years, but my understanding is they don't want the tax cuts to sunset which would require balancing massive spending cuts.
posted by Justinian at 1:32 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:32 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Time to order more brain bleach.
When the country is crazy, only crazy people want to lead the country.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:33 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
When the country is crazy, only crazy people want to lead the country.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:33 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
That legislation wasn't called the Don't Feed Us No Fetus act (DFUNFa) and that's how I know I am not cut out for State Senate.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
I can't believe it's not fetus!
posted by peeedro at 1:42 PM on March 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 1:42 PM on March 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
Shorty's Mirror? He probably makes Fetus Pie for the bake sales.
I can't believe it's not fetus!
I have a debilitating stomach ache and this made me laugh so hard I thought I was going to pass out from the pain.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I can't believe it's not fetus!
I have a debilitating stomach ache and this made me laugh so hard I thought I was going to pass out from the pain.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Apparently Chuck Grassley is pretty pissed with the FBI's lack of responses and answers about possible investigations into the Russian election interference: Grassley Accuses FBI Of Withholding Information On Russia Investigations.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:49 PM on March 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
“Every time they come up here for their nomination hearing and I ask them are you going to answer phone calls and our letters and are you going to give us the documents you want? And every time we get a real positive yes! And then they end up being liars!” Grassley told the Post, referring to senior law enforcement officials. “It’s not if they’re treating us differently than another committee. It’s if they’re responding at all.”It further sounds like he's willing to hold up Deputy AG confirmation hearings until Comey responds. It's almost like Congress can act as a check against the executive branch, if they want--not sure where I got that idea, though.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:49 PM on March 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
there goes my modest proposal
posted by entropicamericana at 1:51 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:51 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
he has ONE issue of note: "Human fetuses in food"
WTF? I mean...what the actual fuck?
posted by vibrotronica at 1:51 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
WTF? I mean...what the actual fuck?
posted by vibrotronica at 1:51 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
Apparently Chuck Grassley is pretty pissed with the FBI's lack of responses and answers about possible investigations into the Russian election interference
The big question for me is WHY? What reason would the FBI have for stonewalling Congress? Are they worried about leaks? Evidence being destroyed? Are Congressfolk the subjects of the investigation? Is the FBI trying to clean up their act behind the scenes? WHY?
posted by leotrotsky at 1:52 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
The big question for me is WHY? What reason would the FBI have for stonewalling Congress? Are they worried about leaks? Evidence being destroyed? Are Congressfolk the subjects of the investigation? Is the FBI trying to clean up their act behind the scenes? WHY?
posted by leotrotsky at 1:52 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I am now googling what insects have the worst stings, for political reasons
tarantula hawk wasp. the inspiration for Fallout: NV's cazador
posted by indubitable at 1:52 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
tarantula hawk wasp. the inspiration for Fallout: NV's cazador
posted by indubitable at 1:52 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
The big question for me is WHY? What reason would the FBI have for stonewalling Congress?
The same reason they released the letter about Hillary Clinton like 3 days before the election?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:53 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The same reason they released the letter about Hillary Clinton like 3 days before the election?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:53 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The big question for me is WHY? What reason would the FBI have for stonewalling Congress?
Investigations might reveal that the FBI was also responsible for throwing the election to Trump?
posted by jferg at 1:54 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Investigations might reveal that the FBI was also responsible for throwing the election to Trump?
posted by jferg at 1:54 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Grassley's a Republican, though. The Republicans are getting stonewalled, too.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:54 PM on March 15, 2017
posted by leotrotsky at 1:54 PM on March 15, 2017
Grassley's a Republican, though. The Republicans are getting stonewalled, too.
I don't believe that matters to them.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't believe that matters to them.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't think even Ryan wants it to pass.
What happens to all those "REPEAL OBAMACARE!" voters? Don't they start calling for heads?
posted by leotrotsky at 1:57 PM on March 15, 2017
What happens to all those "REPEAL OBAMACARE!" voters? Don't they start calling for heads?
posted by leotrotsky at 1:57 PM on March 15, 2017
The big question for me is WHY? What reason would the FBI have for stonewalling Congress? Are they worried about leaks? Evidence being destroyed? Are Congressfolk the subjects of the investigation? Is the FBI trying to clean up their act behind the scenes? WHY?
The last one. They've had whatever evidence they're hiding about Trump/Russia since WAY before the election and did nothing. Comey intentionally sat on the dossier and pushed Clinton emails. They're complicit in covering up behind Trump and feeding Clinton attacks through Guliani and the NY office. Any real response to Congress exposes their own total compromise.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
The last one. They've had whatever evidence they're hiding about Trump/Russia since WAY before the election and did nothing. Comey intentionally sat on the dossier and pushed Clinton emails. They're complicit in covering up behind Trump and feeding Clinton attacks through Guliani and the NY office. Any real response to Congress exposes their own total compromise.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Wonkette: Roger Stone Car Accidented To Death By CIA, But He’s OK Now
I don't know why y'all are messin with bees when Portuguese Man O' War are just hanging around begging to find a purpose in life. And how convenient is this: Detached tentacles and dead specimens (including those that wash up on shore) can sting just as painfully as the live organism in the water and may remain potent for hours or even days after the death of the organism or the detachment of the tentacle.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
In January, Stone broke all our hearts when he revealed on the Alex Jones Real News And Information Show that he had been murdered to death by the “Deep State,” by being poisoned with polonium 210, which Russian intelligence has actually used to murder at least one former Russian FSB agent that we know of. (If you’re new, the “FSB” is like the Russian version of the “CIA,” just like “Canada SCOTUS” is the Canadian corollary to “SCOTUS.”) However, miraculously, Stone made a complete recovery from getting polonium-ed to death, glory halleljuah!
Until this week, when the “Deep State” tried to maketh murder upon him again, allegedly, in a car accident that happened, allegedly
I don't know why y'all are messin with bees when Portuguese Man O' War are just hanging around begging to find a purpose in life. And how convenient is this: Detached tentacles and dead specimens (including those that wash up on shore) can sting just as painfully as the live organism in the water and may remain potent for hours or even days after the death of the organism or the detachment of the tentacle.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yes, the Ides of Trump postcard thing was VERY therapeutic. My group of 4 churned out 84 in 30 minutes and vented for another 30. My mother wrote a well-thought-out and kind plea that she had been working at for hours. The rest of us put essentially "eat shit."
(I am fearful that this draws a bright pink arrow at the target already pasted on the USPS, but I fear for that wonderfully democratic institution on a normal day.)
posted by thebrokedown at 1:59 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
(I am fearful that this draws a bright pink arrow at the target already pasted on the USPS, but I fear for that wonderfully democratic institution on a normal day.)
posted by thebrokedown at 1:59 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
What happens to all those "REPEAL OBAMACARE!" voters?
Turns out all those voters actually really liked the ACA and now that they've been informed that's the same thing as Obamacare, they've gotten mysteriously quiet.
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:00 PM on March 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
Turns out all those voters actually really liked the ACA and now that they've been informed that's the same thing as Obamacare, they've gotten mysteriously quiet.
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:00 PM on March 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
What happens to all those "REPEAL OBAMACARE!" voters? Don't they start calling for heads?
it seems possible they never really had a solid understanding of ObamaCare or any cogent objections to it, but wanted something fighty to yell at the black president.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:00 PM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
it seems possible they never really had a solid understanding of ObamaCare or any cogent objections to it, but wanted something fighty to yell at the black president.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:00 PM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
Trump has now embraced Spicey's spin, saying "But wiretap covers a lot of different things." His tweets were quite clear that Obama was tapping his phones in Trump Tower in October, which is much more specific than "a lot of different things."
posted by zachlipton at 2:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
tarantula hawk wasp. the inspiration for Fallout: NV's cazador
AKA The PlayStation Crashers
/shakes fist at cazadors except everything is frozen so I'm paralyzed with my fist motionless in midair
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:13 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
AKA The PlayStation Crashers
/shakes fist at cazadors except everything is frozen so I'm paralyzed with my fist motionless in midair
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:13 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Until this week, when the “Deep State” tried to maketh murder upon him again, allegedly, in a car accident that happened, allegedly
It's interesting how the paranoid/conspiracy worldview is just like cultures that believe all deaths are caused by witchcraft: there are no coincidences. If someone could conceivably have benefitted from arranging a car accident, then, case closed.
posted by thelonius at 2:14 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's interesting how the paranoid/conspiracy worldview is just like cultures that believe all deaths are caused by witchcraft: there are no coincidences. If someone could conceivably have benefitted from arranging a car accident, then, case closed.
posted by thelonius at 2:14 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
it seems possible they never really had a solid understanding of ObamaCare or any cogent objections to it, but wanted something fighty to yell at the black president.
I agree. To this day, I still talk to people who speak of "obamacare" as if it were a specific insurance plan. Healthcare reform had to happen, and it's a shame it didn't happen 10 years before the ACA. The republicans, cowards and idiots that they are, turned a necessary aspect of public policy into a fact-free buzzword centered heavily on white supremacist ideas of who does and does not deserve the social safety net, and absent any sort of policy or argumentation, the fantasy of "obamacare" has festered in the minds of people who are now on the slate to get royally and completely screwed by Republicare. Unfortunately for the rest of the country, it's a crowded slate.
posted by codacorolla at 2:17 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
I agree. To this day, I still talk to people who speak of "obamacare" as if it were a specific insurance plan. Healthcare reform had to happen, and it's a shame it didn't happen 10 years before the ACA. The republicans, cowards and idiots that they are, turned a necessary aspect of public policy into a fact-free buzzword centered heavily on white supremacist ideas of who does and does not deserve the social safety net, and absent any sort of policy or argumentation, the fantasy of "obamacare" has festered in the minds of people who are now on the slate to get royally and completely screwed by Republicare. Unfortunately for the rest of the country, it's a crowded slate.
posted by codacorolla at 2:17 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
it seems possible they never really had a solid understanding of ObamaCare or any cogent objections to it, but wanted something fighty to yell at the black president.
We're talking about a group of people who fought tooth and nail against the ACA like they did anything else Obama proposed, then nicknamed it Obamacare (with the clear implication that because it's Obama's it's trash), and then later forgot they did that and started complaining about the hubris of a man who would name a healthcare reform bill after himself.
I would say that it seems more than possible that their objections were 99.9% of the time, "a black guy got elected and we're pissed!".
posted by tocts at 2:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [46 favorites]
We're talking about a group of people who fought tooth and nail against the ACA like they did anything else Obama proposed, then nicknamed it Obamacare (with the clear implication that because it's Obama's it's trash), and then later forgot they did that and started complaining about the hubris of a man who would name a healthcare reform bill after himself.
I would say that it seems more than possible that their objections were 99.9% of the time, "a black guy got elected and we're pissed!".
posted by tocts at 2:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [46 favorites]
he has ONE issue of note: "Human fetuses in food"
Now, let's not go overboard. He just means in human food, right? It's still okay for me to put human fetuses in my cattle feed?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Now, let's not go overboard. He just means in human food, right? It's still okay for me to put human fetuses in my cattle feed?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
NYT: Donald Trump Budget Slashes Funds for E.P.A. and State Department: President Trump’s budget blueprint for the coming fiscal year would slash the Environmental Protection Agency by 31 percent and cut State Department spending by a similar amount in a brash gesture of disdain for big government, according to congressional staff members familiar with the plan.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:22 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:22 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
in a brash gesture of disdain for big government that does things beneficial to real people.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:24 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:24 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's almost like Congress can act as a check against the executive branch, if they want--not sure where I got that idea, though.
It's more that the veterans of Senate Club don't like people who disrespect the lofty and ancient authority of Senate Club. I'll take it, for now: oversight is oversight, even if it's triggered by Chuck Grassley's personal annoyance.
posted by holgate at 2:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's more that the veterans of Senate Club don't like people who disrespect the lofty and ancient authority of Senate Club. I'll take it, for now: oversight is oversight, even if it's triggered by Chuck Grassley's personal annoyance.
posted by holgate at 2:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
[writes then deletes triggering jokes about a certain Canadian punk band who got barred from the US after a certain provocatively-titled album prominently featuring the Reagans and fetuses as food]
posted by aspersioncast at 2:28 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 2:28 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
and it's a shame it didn't happen 10 years before the ACA.
Well back then a woman tried it and they shouted down her ideas too. It's only by serendipitous circumstances we were able to get this one through.
posted by Talez at 2:28 PM on March 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
Well back then a woman tried it and they shouted down her ideas too. It's only by serendipitous circumstances we were able to get this one through.
posted by Talez at 2:28 PM on March 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
The thing is, there were genuine problems with Obamacare. Premiums were still too high for a lot of people, and a lot of people were compelled to buy insurance that they couldn't easily afford. And a lot of those people thought that "repeal Obamacare" meant that they were going to get something better and more affordable. They were criticizing Obamacare from the left, not the right, and they didn't realize that the government they were electing would take it as a mandate to make things even worse. They were terribly misguided, but that's what they thought.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:29 PM on March 15, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:29 PM on March 15, 2017 [43 favorites]
This is pretty hilariously pathetic: Is the GOP drug-testing plan about to backfire?
They just used the Congressional Review Act (a law that was only used once before now) to kill Labor Department rules that allowed states to require drug tests for unemployment benefits for workers in certain jobs that already required drug testing (e.g. aviation, trucking, law enforcement, etc...). They did so because they want stricter rules that would let states drug test many more people. The Congressional Review Act says that the executive branch can't just turn around and create similar rules again, which makes sense, or we'd just have an endless tug-of-war between the executive creating rules and Congress dumping them. So now it's unclear that states have any authority at all to drug test people for unemployment benefits, in any industry or job, and they won't get that authority without an act of Congress. That would require 60 votes in the Senate, and they don't have the votes.
These people are so incompetent at being evil.
posted by zachlipton at 2:29 PM on March 15, 2017 [42 favorites]
They just used the Congressional Review Act (a law that was only used once before now) to kill Labor Department rules that allowed states to require drug tests for unemployment benefits for workers in certain jobs that already required drug testing (e.g. aviation, trucking, law enforcement, etc...). They did so because they want stricter rules that would let states drug test many more people. The Congressional Review Act says that the executive branch can't just turn around and create similar rules again, which makes sense, or we'd just have an endless tug-of-war between the executive creating rules and Congress dumping them. So now it's unclear that states have any authority at all to drug test people for unemployment benefits, in any industry or job, and they won't get that authority without an act of Congress. That would require 60 votes in the Senate, and they don't have the votes.
These people are so incompetent at being evil.
posted by zachlipton at 2:29 PM on March 15, 2017 [42 favorites]
"Hey hey, Donald J. How many poor people will die from entirely preventable conditions today?"
posted by Talez at 2:30 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Talez at 2:30 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump: "wiretap covers a lot of different things," and "I think you're going to find some very interesting items coming to the forefront over the next two weeks."
For someone with a basic technical understanding of a five-year-old, this is a bold prognosis.
Then again, as a thesis supervisor, I tell thee that "interesting" is code for "utter bullshit," so stay tuned
posted by Namlit at 2:31 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
For someone with a basic technical understanding of a five-year-old, this is a bold prognosis.
Then again, as a thesis supervisor, I tell thee that "interesting" is code for "utter bullshit," so stay tuned
posted by Namlit at 2:31 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Cutting Meals on Wheels is like the ultimate "mine, not yours" move.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:31 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:31 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
NYT: Scott Pruitt protested the White House's proposed EPA cut of about $2.2 billion; the White House then made it $2.6 billion.
posted by PenDevil at 2:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 2:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
I never guessed that Ron Paul Funeral City would have been prophetic.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 2:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I actually think the explanation “he didn’t actually mean wire-tapping when he said wire-tapping” is less ridiculous than it might be, in that Trump is careless with his language and ignorant about technology.
But that’s why real presidents listen to intelligence briefings, and have communications professionals and lawyers to check what they say, instead of getting their information from Breitbart and vomiting it undigested straight out onto Twitter.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:37 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
But that’s why real presidents listen to intelligence briefings, and have communications professionals and lawyers to check what they say, instead of getting their information from Breitbart and vomiting it undigested straight out onto Twitter.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:37 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
In January 2012, Shortey introduced legislation to ban the use of aborted human fetuses in food.
OMG I know what this is about. There was a viral email a while back about fetuses in a huge range of products. All the details here. I found myself having to argue that Pepsi wasn't really made of babies once.
posted by threeturtles at 2:38 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
OMG I know what this is about. There was a viral email a while back about fetuses in a huge range of products. All the details here. I found myself having to argue that Pepsi wasn't really made of babies once.
posted by threeturtles at 2:38 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
The thing is, there were genuine problems with Obamacare. Premiums were still too high for a lot of people, and a lot of people were compelled to buy insurance that they couldn't easily afford. And a lot of those people thought that "repeal Obamacare" meant that they were going to get something better and more affordable. They were criticizing Obamacare from the left, not the right, and they didn't realize that the government they were electing would take it as a mandate to make things even worse. They were terribly misguided, but that's what they thought.
This! Democrats have a huge opening here, on real, specific policy that impacts real people and cuts across all traditional party lines!
Let's hope they (and we) can rally around that message and not get bogged down on Trump's taxes and Russia desperately searching for the silver bullet like on Maddow last night. Yes, that shit is terrible, but it's not going to move votes, and no deus ex machina is going to fall from the heavens to put Trump out of office. We have to beat him, and beat the Republicans. Republicans taking away people's healthcare when they thought they were voting for lower premiums, WILL move votes. Much less when the budget comes out and they want to kill every other program in existence on top of taking everyone's healthcare. And if they go after Social Security again.
Most people LIKE government services and programs when they're explained to them. As long as there's not a black guy or a woman telling them to like it, that is. We have to take what we're given sometimes, while also not compromising on an inclusive message.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:38 PM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
This! Democrats have a huge opening here, on real, specific policy that impacts real people and cuts across all traditional party lines!
Let's hope they (and we) can rally around that message and not get bogged down on Trump's taxes and Russia desperately searching for the silver bullet like on Maddow last night. Yes, that shit is terrible, but it's not going to move votes, and no deus ex machina is going to fall from the heavens to put Trump out of office. We have to beat him, and beat the Republicans. Republicans taking away people's healthcare when they thought they were voting for lower premiums, WILL move votes. Much less when the budget comes out and they want to kill every other program in existence on top of taking everyone's healthcare. And if they go after Social Security again.
Most people LIKE government services and programs when they're explained to them. As long as there's not a black guy or a woman telling them to like it, that is. We have to take what we're given sometimes, while also not compromising on an inclusive message.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:38 PM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
They just used the Congressional Review Act (a law that was only used once before now) to kill Labor Department rules that allowed states to require drug tests for unemployment benefits for workers in certain jobs that already required drug testing (e.g. aviation, trucking, law enforcement, etc...). They did so because they want stricter rules that would let states drug test many more people. The Congressional Review Act says that the executive branch can't just turn around and create similar rules again, which makes sense, or we'd just have an endless tug-of-war between the executive creating rules and Congress dumping them. So now it's unclear that states have any authority at all to drug test people for unemployment benefits, in any industry or job, and they won't get that authority without an act of Congress. That would require 60 votes in the Senate, and they don't have the votes.
These people are so incompetent at being evil.
Only once before? There must be something up, because that name sounded familiar and sure enough, in Advertisers look forward to buying your Web browsing history from ISPs, Rep. Blackburn and Sen. Flake used the Congressional Review Act to kill some Obama-era rules that prevent your internet provider from selling your browsing history to third parties and requires them to protect certain kinds of personal information.
posted by indubitable at 2:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
These people are so incompetent at being evil.
Only once before? There must be something up, because that name sounded familiar and sure enough, in Advertisers look forward to buying your Web browsing history from ISPs, Rep. Blackburn and Sen. Flake used the Congressional Review Act to kill some Obama-era rules that prevent your internet provider from selling your browsing history to third parties and requires them to protect certain kinds of personal information.
posted by indubitable at 2:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Apparently in more "Trump is incompetent news", he's decided to mess with Texas.
posted by corb at 2:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by corb at 2:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
corb: Apparently in more "Trump is incompetent news", he's decided to mess with Texas.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:43 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Texans who live in the path of President Trump’s proposed border wall with Mexico have received the first letters, called a “Declaration of Taking,” from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. One of the notices, received by Yvette Salinas, offers her family $2,900 for 1.2 acres near the Rio Grande.... During President George W. Bush’s tenure, her family received a similar condemnation notice so that 110 miles of border fencing could be put on private land in Texas. They were never made to sell, and then Bush’s term ended.I only hope they're so lucky a second time.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:43 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
I found myself having to argue that Pepsi wasn't really made of babies once.
Mountain Dew, on the other hand...
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:43 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mountain Dew, on the other hand...
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:43 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Someone needs to recreate the "cloud to butt" extension as "falsehoods to bullshit." For certain news sites, any usage of "false" or "falsehood" would be replaced with the much more accurate "bullshit."
posted by rouftop at 2:43 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
- Donald Trump's Streak of Bullshit Now Stands at 33 Days
- A Trump book riddled with bullshit will no longer be sold by the National History Museum
- Paul Ryan's bullshit claim that because of Obamacare, Medicare is going broke
posted by rouftop at 2:43 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
This whole time I figured some jackanapes just mistook 'fetus' for 'feces' in an FDA memo about acceptable amounts of the latter in mass-produced food.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:44 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by aspersioncast at 2:44 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
It was smart of him to limit the bill to fetuses. I fully expect The World's Greatest Modest Proposal/Soylent Green Act of 2017 to make ACA repeal under reconciliation.
posted by cmfletcher at 2:45 PM on March 15, 2017
posted by cmfletcher at 2:45 PM on March 15, 2017
WikiLeaks CIA files: Former intelligence chief claims millennials leak secrets because of 'cultural differences'
posted by futz at 2:54 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by futz at 2:54 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
he has ONE issue of note: "Human fetuses in food"
In other news in Trump Mirror World, never let Shortey cook for you.
posted by chris24 at 2:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
In other news in Trump Mirror World, never let Shortey cook for you.
posted by chris24 at 2:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Only once before? There must be something up, because that name sounded familiar and sure enough
Congress has only used the Congressional Review Act once before this year, since it was passed in 1996. They're now in the process of using it on a whole host of Obama-era regulations.
posted by zachlipton at 2:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Congress has only used the Congressional Review Act once before this year, since it was passed in 1996. They're now in the process of using it on a whole host of Obama-era regulations.
posted by zachlipton at 2:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Tweet with picture:
Apparently the day after Moore police report Ralph Shortey shared a Super 8 Motel room with a boy, Shortey spent time with Donald Trump Jr.
posted by futz at 2:59 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Apparently the day after Moore police report Ralph Shortey shared a Super 8 Motel room with a boy, Shortey spent time with Donald Trump Jr.
posted by futz at 2:59 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
It looks increasingly like
Shhhhh! Shhh shhhh shh shhhhhh . . After the deeply disturbing events of 11/9, only hindsight is acceptable prognostication.
posted by petebest at 3:01 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Shhhhh! Shhh shhhh shh shhhhhh . . After the deeply disturbing events of 11/9, only hindsight is acceptable prognostication.
posted by petebest at 3:01 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Someone photoshopped one of Pete Souza's photos of Obama, and Pete Souza is retweeting it.
I was imagining Trump leaning over so a young black boy could feel his hair.
posted by snofoam at 3:04 PM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
I was imagining Trump leaning over so a young black boy could feel his hair.
posted by snofoam at 3:04 PM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
futz: WikiLeaks CIA files: Former intelligence chief claims millennials leak secrets because of 'cultural differences'
The fabled hacker ethos is finally taking hold! Information wants to be free, man!
posted by filthy light thief at 3:05 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
The fabled hacker ethos is finally taking hold! Information wants to be free, man!
posted by filthy light thief at 3:05 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
WikiLeaks CIA files: Former intelligence chief claims millennials leak secrets because of 'cultural differences'
God, is there nothing they can't turn into a generational fight? Wait, what am I saying... Of course not. They're still mad at hippies from 50 years ago.
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:05 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
God, is there nothing they can't turn into a generational fight? Wait, what am I saying... Of course not. They're still mad at hippies from 50 years ago.
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:05 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
There was a viral email a while back about fetuses in a huge range of products. All the details here. I found myself having to argue that Pepsi wasn't really made of babies once.
Wait until you hear the horrifying truth about delicious Girl Scout cookies.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Apparently the day after Moore police report Ralph Shortey shared a Super 8 Motel room with a boy, Shortey spent time with Donald Trump Jr.
Shortey: "He's [Trump Jr.] an extremely electric guy with a magnetic personality. And, like his dad, very humble man with a true passion to make our country better."
I mean... surely even the most brain-dead, fascist-worshiping boot-licker wouldn't buy that line about trump being humble. The fact that he's a cocky asshole is what they looove about him.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:08 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Shortey: "He's [Trump Jr.] an extremely electric guy with a magnetic personality. And, like his dad, very humble man with a true passion to make our country better."
I mean... surely even the most brain-dead, fascist-worshiping boot-licker wouldn't buy that line about trump being humble. The fact that he's a cocky asshole is what they looove about him.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:08 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
Someone needs to recreate the "cloud to butt" extension as "falsehoods to bullshit."
It wouldn't be hard at all. This is pretty much all there is to cloud-to-butt. (I prefer cloud-to-butt plus, personally, because it handles a few other contexts nicely, but for your purposes the simpler version would be fine.
That said, you could probably do this just fine with Word Replacer II.
posted by jammer at 3:09 PM on March 15, 2017
It wouldn't be hard at all. This is pretty much all there is to cloud-to-butt. (I prefer cloud-to-butt plus, personally, because it handles a few other contexts nicely, but for your purposes the simpler version would be fine.
That said, you could probably do this just fine with Word Replacer II.
posted by jammer at 3:09 PM on March 15, 2017
WikiLeaks CIA files: Former intelligence chief claims millennials leak secrets because of 'cultural differences'
So the same reason why The Cherry Poppin' Daddies' 2016 album didn't win a Grammy, then.
posted by rhizome at 3:15 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
So the same reason why The Cherry Poppin' Daddies' 2016 album didn't win a Grammy, then.
posted by rhizome at 3:15 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was imagining Trump leaning over so a young black boy could feel his hair.
I literally got horror movie chills at the possibility. Like when the monster is in the room and no one knows yet?
posted by corb at 3:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
I literally got horror movie chills at the possibility. Like when the monster is in the room and no one knows yet?
posted by corb at 3:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Grassley let Feinstein do the talking after they both had a meeting in the Senate SCIF with Comey. Another of those visits that leaves Hill reporters noticing the atmosphere.
posted by holgate at 3:19 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by holgate at 3:19 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is just another drop in the bucket, but South Korean hip-hop artist Don Malik was scheduled to perform at SXSW and, per a statement released by his label, he was denied entry and racially discriminated against by CBP:
Don Malik and Co. were entering as guests, with a non-profit purpose, abiding by the Visa Waiver Program and they were cleared by the ESTA. His participation in SXSW was going to be unpaid and they had all relevant documents at hand, also proof for their ESTA clearance and travel visas.posted by paisley sheep at 3:21 PM on March 15, 2017 [46 favorites]
Yet they were denied entry and then detained for 24 hours. They were racially discriminated by local employees who imitated monkeys and called them “chink(s).” Further, the whole group’s cellphones were confiscated, thus they were unable to ask for help from [SXSW] staff. In this process, one of the fellow artists was even handcuffed for no reason. Due to this denied entry, the whole group’s ESTA clearance is apparently cancelled for good.
> We are all human beeings.
You mean like Mellifers?
posted by homunculus at 3:23 PM on March 15, 2017
You mean like Mellifers?
posted by homunculus at 3:23 PM on March 15, 2017
Like all my comments in the poli threads I'm way behind in reading so apologies for posting out of sync with the current conversation, BUT. I wanted to share something that gives me some hope. 2 congressmen from Texas are road tripping to DC and it's pretty charming at times. They are hosting 'tele town halls' via Facebook live where the talk policy, current events, going through drive thru's, and singing along to Johnny Cash. I watched them start out a few days back because I'm really hoping Beto O'Rourke can gather some momentum and challenge Cruz in 2018 (PLEASE don't dash my hopes!). Congressman Will Hurd's flight to DC was cancelled and Beto offered him a ride. They didn't really know each other beforehand and it's nice seeing a democrat (Beto) and a Republican (Hurd) talk like normal people. There was only a 100 or so of us die hard hopefuls watching yesterday but it seems to be growing today so I thought I'd share with you fine folks. You can ask them questions when they are live.
and I hope it always goes without saying how much I appreciate so many of you. Thank you for being here. For expressing yourself so passionately and clearly. You help me more than you will ever know.
posted by dog food sugar at 3:26 PM on March 15, 2017 [40 favorites]
and I hope it always goes without saying how much I appreciate so many of you. Thank you for being here. For expressing yourself so passionately and clearly. You help me more than you will ever know.
posted by dog food sugar at 3:26 PM on March 15, 2017 [40 favorites]
> Grassley let Feinstein do the talking after they both had a meeting in the Senate SCIF with Comey. Another of those visits that leaves Hill reporters noticing the atmosphere.
Fuck. I haven't seen that much of her on TV, but she looks really shaken here. Like, Stage IV Shit-Hitting-Fan shaken.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:28 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Fuck. I haven't seen that much of her on TV, but she looks really shaken here. Like, Stage IV Shit-Hitting-Fan shaken.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:28 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Musa al-Gharbi, Columbia University: The Democratic Party is facing a demographic crisis
I thought the Republicans were the one who are doomed by demography?
posted by Apocryphon at 3:32 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I thought the Republicans were the one who are doomed by demography?
posted by Apocryphon at 3:32 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
fetus - it's what's for dinner
posted by pyramid termite at 3:32 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 3:32 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fuck. I haven't seen that much of her on TV, but she looks really shaken here. Like, Stage IV Shit-Hitting-Fan shaken.
This is what not being able to deny the objective facts looks like. I wonder if/when this look will spread.
posted by mikelieman at 3:37 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is what not being able to deny the objective facts looks like. I wonder if/when this look will spread.
posted by mikelieman at 3:37 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
SXSW simply won't be able to book non-US artists if CBP is going to treat unpaid promo gigs in bars at the behest of record labels as paid work, especially if the artists aren't white.
posted by holgate at 3:43 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by holgate at 3:43 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
per bloomberg: *TRUMP’S SECOND TRAVEL BAN IS BLOCKED BY U.S. JUDGE
posted by H. Roark at 3:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by H. Roark at 3:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
I'm wondering about Coachella and the upcoming festival season. I assume visas for these paid gigs would be different, but I don't see the CBP caring if it gets in the way of their harassment campaign.
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fuck. I haven't seen that much of her on TV, but she looks really shaken here. Like, Stage IV Shit-Hitting-Fan shaken.
It is truly terrifying to know something is really, really wrong and we have no idea what it is or what to do. But what this is indicating is that congress is in a situation where they know something is really, really wrong, and they know what it is, but they have no idea what to do.
posted by mumimor at 3:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
It is truly terrifying to know something is really, really wrong and we have no idea what it is or what to do. But what this is indicating is that congress is in a situation where they know something is really, really wrong, and they know what it is, but they have no idea what to do.
posted by mumimor at 3:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
I thought the Republicans were the one who are doomed by demography?
There's about 10\% of a point there; the declines in Democratic support are troubling if minor.
But:
Comparing things to 2008, a year which saw an already-unpopular Republican President running an already-unpopular war presiding over the most serious economic crash in a lifetime, is just silly. Of course support declined after 2008; support for Democrats in every demographic group was artificially high that year.
And his larger point is just silly. If a future electorate will have a lot more people who currently vote consistently Democratic and a lot fewer people who vote consistently Republican, that bodes well for the Democrats. Especially given that Trump and the GOP are alienating all of them real fuckin' hard.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's about 10\% of a point there; the declines in Democratic support are troubling if minor.
But:
Comparing things to 2008, a year which saw an already-unpopular Republican President running an already-unpopular war presiding over the most serious economic crash in a lifetime, is just silly. Of course support declined after 2008; support for Democrats in every demographic group was artificially high that year.
And his larger point is just silly. If a future electorate will have a lot more people who currently vote consistently Democratic and a lot fewer people who vote consistently Republican, that bodes well for the Democrats. Especially given that Trump and the GOP are alienating all of them real fuckin' hard.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Geert Wilders appears to have picked up a few seats in the Dutch parliament, but it doesn't look like he's going to win.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
You pretty much have to get barred by CBP to have any indie cred these days. This will hurt white American bands.
posted by srboisvert at 3:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 3:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
per bloomberg: *TRUMP’S SECOND TRAVEL BAN IS BLOCKED BY U.S. JUDGE
Frozen nationwide per Washington Post.
posted by peeedro at 3:54 PM on March 15, 2017 [39 favorites]
Frozen nationwide per Washington Post.
posted by peeedro at 3:54 PM on March 15, 2017 [39 favorites]
Sam Levine: I called all 50 secretaries of state to ask them if they've heard from WH about voter fraud Not one said they had
posted by PenDevil at 3:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 3:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
From 538: Liberals Would Be Foolish To Primary Joe Manchin .
Some liberal activists want to challenge Sen. Joe Manchin in West Virginia’s 2018 Democratic primary. They complain that he’s too conservative and that he voted to confirm most of President Trump’s Cabinet officials. Manchin is probably safe — Democratic voters in West Virginia are pretty conservative.1 But the impulse to challenge Manchin from the left could be dangerous for Democrats. Manchin, even though he often votes with the GOP, is incredibly valuable to the Democratic Party compared to any plausible alternative.posted by Justinian at 3:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
You pretty much have to get barred by CBP to have any indie cred these days. This will hurt white American bands.
"I just wasted thousands of dollars on flights, suffered a couple of days of indignity, and let down the fans that paid hundreds of dollars if not thousands to get hotels and tickets during SXSW but this white guy says we now have indie cred so it probably worked out even".
Said nobody. Ever.
posted by Talez at 3:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
"I just wasted thousands of dollars on flights, suffered a couple of days of indignity, and let down the fans that paid hundreds of dollars if not thousands to get hotels and tickets during SXSW but this white guy says we now have indie cred so it probably worked out even".
Said nobody. Ever.
posted by Talez at 3:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Did you just take srboisvert's obvious joke comment at face value?
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:02 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:02 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
That Feinstein/Grassley press briefing got to me more than a lot of other stuff has these days. I think, despite the appalling nature of daily administration and congressional skulduggery, it can be easy to subconsciously get caught up in the buffoonish angle to the whole thing—it's all so absurd as to make parts of my brain "laugh", if you will, about how "comically" dysfunctional it all is. (I quote these things because they are not that, but I have this subconscious reaction that tracks to a similar set of stimuli.)
But then people I know to be serious come out and show, through their serious body language, that serious shit just came out of a serious discussion with national security implications, and it all comes crashing back home. These fucking clowns are going to pull serious shit down on all of us. I've known this. But somehow that clip really set that reality back off for me in a visceral way.
posted by Brak at 4:03 PM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
But then people I know to be serious come out and show, through their serious body language, that serious shit just came out of a serious discussion with national security implications, and it all comes crashing back home. These fucking clowns are going to pull serious shit down on all of us. I've known this. But somehow that clip really set that reality back off for me in a visceral way.
posted by Brak at 4:03 PM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
I think the Democrats would be well-served by having basically an old-school socialist challenge Manchin in the primary, pushing whatever well-to-the-left-of-the-Democrats thing polls best in west virginia. (universal healthcare? basic income?) Basically with the intent of forcing Manchin into taking uncomfortably left-populist positions.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:04 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:04 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Did you just take srboisvert's obvious joke comment at face value?
It was a bad joke in context. Maybe I'm just pissed off because I'm an LPR about to spend $6,000 on flights to go visit my family this Christmas and I'm terrified at the administration's complete indifference to my LPR status and CBP agents targeting people based on political beliefs.
posted by Talez at 4:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
It was a bad joke in context. Maybe I'm just pissed off because I'm an LPR about to spend $6,000 on flights to go visit my family this Christmas and I'm terrified at the administration's complete indifference to my LPR status and CBP agents targeting people based on political beliefs.
posted by Talez at 4:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Second travel ban frozen by a Hawaiian judge. Obviously an Obama puppet.
posted by maudlin at 4:09 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 4:09 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm literally hoping my white privilege gets me back into the country and that SCROTUS and Turnbull don't have another (!) international fucking incident while I'm out of the US.
posted by Talez at 4:09 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Talez at 4:09 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
>Second travel ban frozen by a Hawaiian judge.
"Fake news from a fake judge who lives in a fake state. Sad." [Fake]
posted by mosk at 4:12 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
"Fake news from a fake judge who lives in a fake state. Sad." [Fake]
posted by mosk at 4:12 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
@pourmecoffee: Everyone pause to give a slow clap for Stephen Miller, strategic genius, giving court reason to strike down White House travel ban.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:14 PM on March 15, 2017 [65 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:14 PM on March 15, 2017 [65 favorites]
But then people I know to be serious come out and show, through their serious body language, that serious shit just came out of a serious discussion with national security implications, and it all comes crashing back home.
Yeah. I joke about Senate Club rules, Grassley tweets in a language all of his own, and Feinstein is a frustrating hawk, but in an era when many newly-elected senators are scoping out presidential runs in their first term (including Obama!) Grassley and Feinstein have 67 years of Congressional experience between them. Institutions may not save us, but at least the grown-ups in those institutions seem to be acting like grown-ups.
posted by holgate at 4:15 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yeah. I joke about Senate Club rules, Grassley tweets in a language all of his own, and Feinstein is a frustrating hawk, but in an era when many newly-elected senators are scoping out presidential runs in their first term (including Obama!) Grassley and Feinstein have 67 years of Congressional experience between them. Institutions may not save us, but at least the grown-ups in those institutions seem to be acting like grown-ups.
posted by holgate at 4:15 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Skimming the Hawaii order is brutal (citations omitted):
posted by zachlipton at 4:19 PM on March 15, 2017 [87 favorites]
The record before this Court is unique. It includes significant and unrebutted evidence of religious animus driving the promulgation of the Executive Order and its relatedAnd then it goes on to cite Trump in various interviews repeatedly citing religion as a reason for his policies. Over and over again. It's just hanging his words (and that of his staff, especially Miller announcing how this ban is just like the first one) around him.
predecessor.
...
The Government appropriately cautions that, in determining purpose, courts should not look into the “veiled psyche” and “secret motives” of government decisionmakers and may not undertake a “judicial psychoanalysis of a drafter’s heart of hearts.” The Government need not fear. The remarkable facts at issue here require no such impermissible inquiry. For instance, there is nothing “veiled” about this press release: “Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.[]” . Nor is there anything “secret” about the Executive’s motive specific to the issuance of the Executive Order:Rudolph Giuliani explained on television how the Executive Order came to be. He said: “When [Mr. Trump] first announced it, he said, ‘Muslim ban.’ He called me up. He said, ‘Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it legally.’”
posted by zachlipton at 4:19 PM on March 15, 2017 [87 favorites]
On first day in office, new Medicaid chief urges states to charge premiums, prod recipients to get jobs
Wow. She wastes no time going pure evil.
-- Hours after she was sworn in, the Trump administration’s top official for Medicaid and her boss dispatched a letter to the nation’s governors, urging states to alter the insurance program for the nation’s poor by imposing insurance premiums, charging them for part of emergency room bills and prodding them to get jobs.
-- By paying so much for covering these new beneficiaries, they contend, the ACA has “provided states with an incentive to deprioritize the most vulnerable populations.” The three-page letter does not mention that, for the first three years, the federal government paid the entire cost of covering the expansion group and still pays nearly all of that.
-- The letter from Verma and Price stops short of urging an outright work requirement, saying that CMS will “review and approve meritorious innovations that build on the human dignity that comes with training, employment and independence.”
Asked whether the Trump administration would allow states to impose work requirements within Medicaid, an HHS spokesman replied, “We can’t speculate.”
posted by futz at 4:19 PM on March 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
Wow. She wastes no time going pure evil.
-- Hours after she was sworn in, the Trump administration’s top official for Medicaid and her boss dispatched a letter to the nation’s governors, urging states to alter the insurance program for the nation’s poor by imposing insurance premiums, charging them for part of emergency room bills and prodding them to get jobs.
-- By paying so much for covering these new beneficiaries, they contend, the ACA has “provided states with an incentive to deprioritize the most vulnerable populations.” The three-page letter does not mention that, for the first three years, the federal government paid the entire cost of covering the expansion group and still pays nearly all of that.
-- The letter from Verma and Price stops short of urging an outright work requirement, saying that CMS will “review and approve meritorious innovations that build on the human dignity that comes with training, employment and independence.”
Asked whether the Trump administration would allow states to impose work requirements within Medicaid, an HHS spokesman replied, “We can’t speculate.”
posted by futz at 4:19 PM on March 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
But then people I know to be serious come out and show, through their serious body language, that serious shit just came out of a serious discussion with national security implications, and it all comes crashing back home. These fucking clowns are going to pull serious shit down on all of us. I've known this. But somehow that clip really set that reality back off for me in a visceral way.
Yes, it was really a stark reminder that this is not simple. Now I'm projecting, but if the Trump administration are all deeply intwined in something dark, what does congress actually do? Given that a relatively large portion of the House are crazy, what do the sane people do?
I don't mean what does protocol say, but how does the American government handle the worst constitutional crisis ever? Who is there to deal with it? Which officials can you trust? How does practical day to day management go on. And how does one deal with Trump's voters?
I do not believe there will be a civil war. The trumpistas are fat, ignorant lazy and fearful. They are even less able to organize than their leader. Look at how they failed to rally for him when he asked them to. They are completely unlikely to gang up in militias.
But day to day government needs leadership, and who can or will provide it if government fails, or is ousted? And what if something happens?
Don't even hint at Ryan, he has zero legitimacy.
There would definitely be a popular pressure to bring Obama back, but I don't think he'd comply, because there would be serious issues with that.
posted by mumimor at 4:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yes, it was really a stark reminder that this is not simple. Now I'm projecting, but if the Trump administration are all deeply intwined in something dark, what does congress actually do? Given that a relatively large portion of the House are crazy, what do the sane people do?
I don't mean what does protocol say, but how does the American government handle the worst constitutional crisis ever? Who is there to deal with it? Which officials can you trust? How does practical day to day management go on. And how does one deal with Trump's voters?
I do not believe there will be a civil war. The trumpistas are fat, ignorant lazy and fearful. They are even less able to organize than their leader. Look at how they failed to rally for him when he asked them to. They are completely unlikely to gang up in militias.
But day to day government needs leadership, and who can or will provide it if government fails, or is ousted? And what if something happens?
Don't even hint at Ryan, he has zero legitimacy.
There would definitely be a popular pressure to bring Obama back, but I don't think he'd comply, because there would be serious issues with that.
posted by mumimor at 4:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
And a lot of those people thought that "repeal Obamacare" meant that they were going to get something better and more affordable.
This is the narrative (not your messaging of it, mind you) that's driving me crazy. It's just accepted among so many people at this point that there's no such thing as hammering out new and updated legislation as a unified Congress. The entire notion that Ryan's bill is built on—that it can only contain what can be passed through reconciliation, because Fuck Democrats—it's not just a disservice to Americans because the atrocious lack of merits of the bill. It's a disservice to Americans because it de facto presumes that Congress simply doesn't work to a common purpose anymore, that factional divisions are paramount, unassailable, that Congress is nothing but a binary-outcome war between "sides" now.
What the fuck? Congress is run by people who openly acknowledge that they have no interest in the merits of the Congressional body, the merits of representation of the entire nation. The Executive has often been that way throughout history—with current representation taking that to an obscene extreme. But Congress has as often as not tried to work together through the daily, unsexy grind of essential governance. These people should not be eligible to represent, based on their unwillingness to understand what that actually means, and govern by those principles.
posted by Brak at 4:22 PM on March 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
This is the narrative (not your messaging of it, mind you) that's driving me crazy. It's just accepted among so many people at this point that there's no such thing as hammering out new and updated legislation as a unified Congress. The entire notion that Ryan's bill is built on—that it can only contain what can be passed through reconciliation, because Fuck Democrats—it's not just a disservice to Americans because the atrocious lack of merits of the bill. It's a disservice to Americans because it de facto presumes that Congress simply doesn't work to a common purpose anymore, that factional divisions are paramount, unassailable, that Congress is nothing but a binary-outcome war between "sides" now.
What the fuck? Congress is run by people who openly acknowledge that they have no interest in the merits of the Congressional body, the merits of representation of the entire nation. The Executive has often been that way throughout history—with current representation taking that to an obscene extreme. But Congress has as often as not tried to work together through the daily, unsexy grind of essential governance. These people should not be eligible to represent, based on their unwillingness to understand what that actually means, and govern by those principles.
posted by Brak at 4:22 PM on March 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
The trumpistas are fat
Can we refrain from fat-shaming? Being fat is not a character flaw. People of any size/weight can be super awesome and cool or total douchebags.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [57 favorites]
Can we refrain from fat-shaming? Being fat is not a character flaw. People of any size/weight can be super awesome and cool or total douchebags.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [57 favorites]
That Giuliani has provided a powerful leverage point against this travel ban is delicious.
posted by angrybear at 4:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by angrybear at 4:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
I volunteered at the ACLU office this morning, and even though I was just stuffing envelopes, it's certainly possible I helped get the travel ban frozen through some zany Hudsucker Proxy-esque chain reaction of events
posted by theodolite at 4:26 PM on March 15, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 4:26 PM on March 15, 2017 [39 favorites]
The Reason Donald Trump’s 2005 Tax Return Was So Yuge? Chinese Investors.
Not only did he play no part in the best deal of his career, he actually fought it.
posted by mumimor at 4:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Not only did he play no part in the best deal of his career, he actually fought it.
posted by mumimor at 4:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
There's about 10\% of a point there; the declines in Democratic support are troubling if minor.
If you look at the cross tabs you will find that Clinton won the same percentage of minority women as Obama. Where she lost a few points compared to Obama was minority men. Turns out some minority men are sexist. Who knew?
Clinton faced the same racism problem as Obama, but on top of that she faced sexism, and that made a difference.
posted by JackFlash at 4:36 PM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
If you look at the cross tabs you will find that Clinton won the same percentage of minority women as Obama. Where she lost a few points compared to Obama was minority men. Turns out some minority men are sexist. Who knew?
Clinton faced the same racism problem as Obama, but on top of that she faced sexism, and that made a difference.
posted by JackFlash at 4:36 PM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
That 2005 joint return would also have been filed as part of Melania's citizenship application, which may be why it was relatively non-hinky, and also why she was still "Melanija Knavs" after her marriage. (If you change your name in the middle of the immigration process, it's a bureaucratic pain, but it's easy to change it on naturalization.)
posted by holgate at 4:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by holgate at 4:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Thank you Andrew Jackson! #POTUS7 #USA [flag emoji]
fuck you
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:48 PM on March 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
Thank you Andrew Jackson! #POTUS7 #USA [flag emoji]
fuck you
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:48 PM on March 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
Mod note: This fat-shaming derail is bizarre and needs to stop right now. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 4:49 PM on March 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 4:49 PM on March 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
Do shepherds bell the wether so the flock will follow him, or do they bell the wether the flock follows? Shepherds of MetaFilter it's your moment to shine!
posted by um at 4:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by um at 4:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
If you change your name in the middle of the immigration process, it's a bureaucratic pain
This was not my (our) experience. Based on VisaJourney threads as well, I'd say a large portion of marriage-based visas include a name change during the process with no issues.
There were a lot of headaches in the immigration process, but name change was not one of them.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:50 PM on March 15, 2017
This was not my (our) experience. Based on VisaJourney threads as well, I'd say a large portion of marriage-based visas include a name change during the process with no issues.
There were a lot of headaches in the immigration process, but name change was not one of them.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:50 PM on March 15, 2017
BuzzFeed: The 1.6 Billion Dollar Hoax: "An elaborate hoax based on forged documents escalates the phenomenon of “fake news” and reveals an audience on the left that seems willing to believe virtually any claim that could damage Trump." This is a weird story, and it's exactly the kind of reason David Cay Johnston sent the tax return to the White House for comment. Forgeries abound.
Politico: Wherever Trump goes, his gang of aides stays close by. His senior staff have no real job duties and are all trying to stab each other in the back all the time, so they all constantly attend every single meeting and surround him. Whether the issue is domestic energy policy, a phone call with a foreign leader, or meeting with Congressional leaders, everybody shows up for everything.
posted by zachlipton at 4:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
Politico: Wherever Trump goes, his gang of aides stays close by. His senior staff have no real job duties and are all trying to stab each other in the back all the time, so they all constantly attend every single meeting and surround him. Whether the issue is domestic energy policy, a phone call with a foreign leader, or meeting with Congressional leaders, everybody shows up for everything.
posted by zachlipton at 4:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
Protesters shutting down a Trump supporter by chanting "Bless your heart." Only in Nashville.
posted by zachlipton at 4:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [61 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [61 favorites]
His senior staff have no real job duties and are all trying to stab each other in the back all the time, so they all constantly attend every single meeting and surround him.
That sounds more like an absolute monarch's court than a functioning modern democracy.
posted by Justinian at 4:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [26 favorites]
That sounds more like an absolute monarch's court than a functioning modern democracy.
posted by Justinian at 4:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [26 favorites]
His senior staff have no real job duties and are all trying to stab each other in the back all the time, so they all constantly attend every single meeting and surround him.
The Team of Arrivistes
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Team of Arrivistes
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
His senior staff have no real job duties and are all trying to stab each other in the back all the time, so they all constantly attend every single meeting and surround him.
It all makes so much more sense if you picture the White House goings-on as that of a late medieval or early modern royal court. And you'd better believe the smartest of this bunch of courtiers have read their machiavelli and so on. They might as well all be wearing goddamned codpieces.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:01 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
It all makes so much more sense if you picture the White House goings-on as that of a late medieval or early modern royal court. And you'd better believe the smartest of this bunch of courtiers have read their machiavelli and so on. They might as well all be wearing goddamned codpieces.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:01 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
They might as well all be wearing goddamned codpieces
They are. At their age they just look a lot more like diapers nowadays.
posted by wabbittwax at 5:03 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
They are. At their age they just look a lot more like diapers nowadays.
posted by wabbittwax at 5:03 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
So, travel ban suspended (again) and health care replacement legislation in trouble. I feel like the takeaway from today is that the politics of failure have failed.
posted by nubs at 5:04 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by nubs at 5:04 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
You think Trump is sick of winning yet?
posted by valkane at 5:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by valkane at 5:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Apparently Justin Trudeau is seeing "Come From Away" on Broadway tonight (which is excellent and you should 100% buy a ticket now)…. with Ivanka?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Anyone see the latest exclusive on Breitbart? "Exclusive — Rand Paul: Let’s ‘Smash’ Paul Ryan’s Obamacare Lite ‘to Smithereens’
I'm not going to link to it but there it is.
posted by gucci mane at 5:12 PM on March 15, 2017
I'm not going to link to it but there it is.
posted by gucci mane at 5:12 PM on March 15, 2017
Anyone see the latest exclusive on Breitbart? "Exclusive — Rand Paul: Let’s ‘Smash’ Paul Ryan’s Obamacare Lite ‘to Smithereens’
This isn't just hearsay hyperbole. It's literally a Rand Paul op-ed on Breitbart.
If you told me this would happen back in 2015 I think I might have just shot myself right there and then. But here we are. This is 2017.
posted by Talez at 5:17 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
This isn't just hearsay hyperbole. It's literally a Rand Paul op-ed on Breitbart.
If you told me this would happen back in 2015 I think I might have just shot myself right there and then. But here we are. This is 2017.
posted by Talez at 5:17 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
And then it goes on to cite Trump in various interviews repeatedly citing religion as a reason for his policies. Over and over again. It's just hanging his words (and that of his staff, especially Miller announcing how this ban is just like the first one) around him.
I love this. I was just thinking this afternoon that what Trump just can't grasp (or bear) is that, unlike his all too malleable idiot followers who will believe anyfuckingthing he says and then equally believe the contradictory statement five minutes later, the courts. do. not. forget. or buy into his distracting bullshit. You can rewrite that crappy order six ways from Sunday, and everyone is still going to know and remember why and how it was created. You don't get a god damn clean-slate do-over, you revolting bastard.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [49 favorites]
I love this. I was just thinking this afternoon that what Trump just can't grasp (or bear) is that, unlike his all too malleable idiot followers who will believe anyfuckingthing he says and then equally believe the contradictory statement five minutes later, the courts. do. not. forget. or buy into his distracting bullshit. You can rewrite that crappy order six ways from Sunday, and everyone is still going to know and remember why and how it was created. You don't get a god damn clean-slate do-over, you revolting bastard.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [49 favorites]
Would anybody happen to have a direct link for that Feinstein/Comey video? The clip linked on MSNBC's Twitter account appears to be hors de combat.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:21 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:21 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump's reichsparteitag is in full swing with him lashing out at the judiciary. Lock her up is back 110%. This is pretty fucking scary.
posted by Talez at 5:29 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Talez at 5:29 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump in Nashville on the Hawaii ruling: "Moments ago I learned the a district judge in Hawaii [boos], part of the much overturned Ninth Circuit court [boos], and I have to be nice, otherwise I'll get criticized for speaking poorly about our courts. I'll be criticized by these people, among the most dishonest people in the world [I think he means reporters], I'll be criticized by them for speaking harshly about our courts. I would never want to do that. A judge has just blocked our executive order on travel and refugees coming into our country from certain countries. The order he blocked was a watered down version of the first order that was also blocked by another judge and should have never been blocked to start with. This new order was tailored to the dictates of the ninth circuit's, in my opinion, flawed ruling. This is the opinion of many. An unprecedented judicial overreach. The law and the Constitution give the President the power to suspend immigration when he, or she, or she, fortunately it will not be Hillary she [much shouting of lock her up], when he or she deems it to be in the national interest of our country. "
Then he cites the USC again to say he can ban whoever he wants.
posted by zachlipton at 5:29 PM on March 15, 2017 [26 favorites]
Then he cites the USC again to say he can ban whoever he wants.
posted by zachlipton at 5:29 PM on March 15, 2017 [26 favorites]
Oh please, President Genius Trump is reading the text of the federal immigration statute to the collected brain trust at his rally to get their legal opinion on it. [real]
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:30 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:30 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
adamgreenfield, this Raw Story story provides a one minute clip. I can't compare it to the MSNBC Twitter clip because that clip wouldn't work in my browser.
posted by Silverstone at 5:30 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Silverstone at 5:30 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
He's Hitler. It clarifies the mind, knowing that we're dealing with a legit Hitler.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:32 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:32 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Yes Trump, keep saying "this is a watered down version of the first one" over and over again. I promise you that it will be cited as a reason to keep blocking this order
posted by zachlipton at 5:33 PM on March 15, 2017 [59 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:33 PM on March 15, 2017 [59 favorites]
Cheers Silverstone.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:33 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:33 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's Hitler. It clarifies the mind, knowing that we're dealing with a legit Hitler.
Yep. JFC this is terrible.
posted by Talez at 5:34 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yep. JFC this is terrible.
posted by Talez at 5:34 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I love how he keeps calling out Hillary. That's because that's always going to be the high point of his presidency, beating her. Everything after has been and will be a clusterfuck, because he's not actually good at the job.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 5:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [36 favorites]
Is it just me, or does Trump seem to be having trouble speaking tonight? Mildly -- but it sounds a little like he's talking around novocaine after getting a filling or has loose dentures or something, like a slight speech impediment he doesn't normally have.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Crap, still not working for me, in either browser. Ah well.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:35 PM on March 15, 2017
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:35 PM on March 15, 2017
Maybe he'll do a press conference tomorrow? That went well the first time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:36 PM on March 15, 2017
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:36 PM on March 15, 2017
i think some americans want a president who meltsdown and kicks some ass
he won't be effective at kicking ass - hell, the courts won't let him
posted by pyramid termite at 5:38 PM on March 15, 2017
he won't be effective at kicking ass - hell, the courts won't let him
posted by pyramid termite at 5:38 PM on March 15, 2017
and will someone please tell that stupid bastard he's not running against hillary anymore?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 5:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
I don't really see how this works, given that the House wants the AHCA to be moved right, and the Senate wants it to be moved left, but I'm not a genius like Paul Ryan:
Speaker Paul Ryan said that his health-care proposal “must change to pass the House, marking a significant retreat from his earlier position that the carefully crafted legislation would fail if altered,” the Washington Post reports.posted by Chrysostom at 5:40 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
“The shift came after a private meeting of House Republicans from which Ryan (R-Wis.) emerged to tell reporters that his proposal to revise the Affordable Care Act would ‘incorporate feedback’ from the rank-and-file. Ryan attributed the change of strategy to the effect of an analysis issued Monday by the Congressional Budget Office.”
What a knob
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:40 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:40 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Did you just take srboisvert's obvious joke comment at face value?
It was a bad joke in context. Maybe I'm just pissed off because I'm an LPR about to spend $6,000 on flights to go visit my family this Christmas and I'm terrified at the administration's complete indifference to my LPR status and CBP agents targeting people based on political beliefs.
I'm a resident alien as well and I am not even visiting my family this year because I have a history of problems with American border crossings even before the current unleashing of the racist hounds.
I joke because otherwise I cry.
posted by srboisvert at 5:41 PM on March 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
It was a bad joke in context. Maybe I'm just pissed off because I'm an LPR about to spend $6,000 on flights to go visit my family this Christmas and I'm terrified at the administration's complete indifference to my LPR status and CBP agents targeting people based on political beliefs.
I'm a resident alien as well and I am not even visiting my family this year because I have a history of problems with American border crossings even before the current unleashing of the racist hounds.
I joke because otherwise I cry.
posted by srboisvert at 5:41 PM on March 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
I am curious to find out how much he talks about the healthcare bill. I thought that was the original intent of this rally, to rouse the troops and get them to put pressure on the Senate to pass the bill. I'm not so sure he's still enthusiastic about it now.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:42 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:42 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm so sorry, adamgreenfield :( Please try this mediaite link. Would there be a geographic limitation on these links?
posted by Silverstone at 5:43 PM on March 15, 2017
posted by Silverstone at 5:43 PM on March 15, 2017
JFC with all this bullshit Trump may as well be promising a unicorn in every backyard at this point.
posted by Talez at 5:44 PM on March 15, 2017
posted by Talez at 5:44 PM on March 15, 2017
I thought that was the original intent of this rally
Eh? The purpose of this rally is the purpose of all Trump's rallies; he gets a semi from the adulation.
posted by Justinian at 5:44 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
Eh? The purpose of this rally is the purpose of all Trump's rallies; he gets a semi from the adulation.
posted by Justinian at 5:44 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
He talked about the healthcare bill some, but kind of generically. His main point, which he's made a few times before, was that Obamacare will blow up anyway, so we have to do something. It's all a big negotiation to him and it's all going to be so great. There was no real effort to rally the base an get them to do anything to pass the bill, nor is he really standing behind the bill beyond "negotiation."
posted by zachlipton at 5:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sentence from the Hawaii order that I really, really want to put on a tshirt, since it nicely sums up this entire shitshow with drippingly polite snark:
The illogic of the Government’s contentions is palpable.posted by FelliniBlank at 5:46 PM on March 15, 2017 [81 favorites]
Would anybody happen to have a direct link for that Feinstein/Comey video? The clip linked on MSNBC's Twitter account appears to be hors de combat.
I had to tell Privacy Badger to allow a cookie.
posted by mikelieman at 5:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I had to tell Privacy Badger to allow a cookie.
posted by mikelieman at 5:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
SIlverstone, yeah, but my VPN generally gets around that kind of thing. Thanks for trying.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:49 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:49 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's the video of Trump calling the second travel ban a "watered-down version" of the first one and saying "I think we ought to back to the first one and go all the way which is what I wanted to do in the first." That whirring noise you hear is lawyers rushing to their keyboards.
And here's a guy in Nashville with a "I've made a huge mistake" sign. He says he was a Trump voter and, "this is the first step: showing up and being honest."
In other news: Survey reveals the one thing Trump’s supporters can’t forgive him for. Spoiler alert: it's ketchup on steak. (Yes, I am a horrible person for clicking on this and for linking it, and I do not care.)
posted by zachlipton at 5:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
And here's a guy in Nashville with a "I've made a huge mistake" sign. He says he was a Trump voter and, "this is the first step: showing up and being honest."
In other news: Survey reveals the one thing Trump’s supporters can’t forgive him for. Spoiler alert: it's ketchup on steak. (Yes, I am a horrible person for clicking on this and for linking it, and I do not care.)
posted by zachlipton at 5:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
Talez: This isn't just hearsay hyperbole. It's literally a Rand Paul op-ed on Breitbart.
Likewise, it's an ad by Rand Paul for people to be able to buy out-of-state insurance, which would help create the ACA death spiral, effectively killing it, which was Trump's plan all along.
Quote:
"So if you hated Obamacare and don’t care much for Ryan’s Obamacare Lite, maybe you ought to consider telling them all to take a hike and give you the option of joining a co-op. Give you the option of buying across state lines."
posted by gucci mane at 5:52 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Likewise, it's an ad by Rand Paul for people to be able to buy out-of-state insurance, which would help create the ACA death spiral, effectively killing it, which was Trump's plan all along.
Quote:
"So if you hated Obamacare and don’t care much for Ryan’s Obamacare Lite, maybe you ought to consider telling them all to take a hike and give you the option of joining a co-op. Give you the option of buying across state lines."
posted by gucci mane at 5:52 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
give you the option of joining a co-op.
How about a fucking Public Option, if I don't believe that middle-men should be rationing care?
posted by mikelieman at 5:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
How about a fucking Public Option, if I don't believe that middle-men should be rationing care?
posted by mikelieman at 5:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
Kickstart Single Payer?
posted by petebest at 5:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by petebest at 5:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Kickstart Single Payer?
We could take a little bit from everyone, a little bit more from rich people and pay for everyone's healthcare! It's brilliant!
posted by Talez at 6:04 PM on March 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
We could take a little bit from everyone, a little bit more from rich people and pay for everyone's healthcare! It's brilliant!
posted by Talez at 6:04 PM on March 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
In other travel ban court news, the 9th Circuit just voted en banc not to reconsider the panel's initial decision in the first travel ban case. In other words, Trump told the 9th Circuit "see you in court," and he just lost again, in court.
Judge Reinhardt has a nice little concurrence, stating: "Finally, I am proud to be a part of this court and a judicial system that is independent and courageous, and that vigorously protects the constitutional rights of all, regardless of the source of any efforts to weaken or diminish them"
Five judges dissented, writing that "the President’s decision was well within the powers of the presidency."
posted by zachlipton at 6:06 PM on March 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
Judge Reinhardt has a nice little concurrence, stating: "Finally, I am proud to be a part of this court and a judicial system that is independent and courageous, and that vigorously protects the constitutional rights of all, regardless of the source of any efforts to weaken or diminish them"
Five judges dissented, writing that "the President’s decision was well within the powers of the presidency."
posted by zachlipton at 6:06 PM on March 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
'The senator from Kentucky is now working for Putin': John McCain slams Rand Paul for blocking Montenegro from joining NATO
THE MAVERICK IS MAVERICKING!
posted by Talez at 6:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
THE MAVERICK IS MAVERICKING!
posted by Talez at 6:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
I think we ought to back to the first one and go all the way which is what I wanted to do in the first.
What was the deal - they needed 120 days to "figure out what's going on"? We're 47 days since the original EO was signed. Sure they've been doing the figurin' in the meantime and are over a third done, right?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:10 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
What was the deal - they needed 120 days to "figure out what's going on"? We're 47 days since the original EO was signed. Sure they've been doing the figurin' in the meantime and are over a third done, right?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:10 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
At this point, I think we should probably reserve "working for Putin" for people who are actually on Putin's payroll or otherwise doing things at Putin's behest.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wow. I was flipping through the channel and just caught a question on their Health Care Town Hall. An obvious Trump supporter just asked a question of Secretary Price which amounted to "Obamacare is shit, please tell me how the new plan will be super awesome".
posted by Justinian at 6:14 PM on March 15, 2017
posted by Justinian at 6:14 PM on March 15, 2017
> @realDonaldTrump
Thank you Andrew Jackson! #POTUS7 #USA [flag emoji]
Jamelle Bouie: Donald Trump Sees Himself in Andrew Jackson: The president deserves the Jackson legacy, but not for the reasons he’d like.
Thank you Andrew Jackson! #POTUS7 #USA [flag emoji]
Jamelle Bouie: Donald Trump Sees Himself in Andrew Jackson: The president deserves the Jackson legacy, but not for the reasons he’d like.
That’s one view of Jackson. There is another. That perspective sees Jackson in a different tradition. Not of democracy, but of white supremacy. This Jackson was a planter who built his wealth and influence with the stolen labor of more than 200 enslaved Africans. He forced Native Americans off their land in a campaign of removal that claimed thousands of lives in service of white expansion and white hegemony.posted by homunculus at 6:15 PM on March 15, 2017 [44 favorites]
Jacksonian democracy, in other words, was a racial democracy built on a foundation of ethnic cleansing, committed to race hierarchy and enslavement. And while Jackson rejected the nullification theories of his vice president, John C. Calhoun, he all but embraced the South Carolinian’s view that slavery—and racial caste more broadly—was “the best guarantee to equality among the whites.” Along with that racial ideology, he brought ceaseless condemnation of elite corruption and a profoundly anti-government philosophy that contributed to the panic of 1837, a crushing depression that lasted more than a half-decade.
If Donald Trump channels any vision of Andrew Jackson, it’s the latter one, from his anti-immigration message rooted in the explicit view that undocumented immigrants lack legitimate claims on national belonging, to his administration’s campaign of harassment against Muslims and suspected “illegals,” orchestrated by advisers who see immigration and Islam as threats to their vision of a white “Judeo-Christian” America. Trump even seems to mimic parts of Jackson’s personality. Not his rigid religiosity or military demeanor, but his domineering, authoritarian temperament and his barely suppressed aggression.
That whirring noise you hear is lawyers rushing to their keyboards.
Lit-erally.
Lawyers from the ACLU and NILC respectively.
posted by zabuni at 6:15 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Lit-erally.
Lawyers from the ACLU and NILC respectively.
posted by zabuni at 6:15 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Hm, the next questioner seems pretty clearly a Democrat and her question amounts to "AHCA is shit, tell me how you can support this evil plan?". So I guess this is the sort of balance they are going for. Inane questions from both sides.
posted by Justinian at 6:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
THE MAVERICK IS MAVERICKING!
Oh fuck McCain. He barks some appealing things but he's ultimately a Republican and will never stop being one. Party first.
posted by futz at 6:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Oh fuck McCain. He barks some appealing things but he's ultimately a Republican and will never stop being one. Party first.
posted by futz at 6:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Gotta say, it's been a pretty enjoyably ides-y Ides of March so far.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:19 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:19 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Judge Reinhardt
Fun fact: Reinhardt is married to Ramona Ripston, who was the badass ED of the ACLU of SoCal for forty years.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Fun fact: Reinhardt is married to Ramona Ripston, who was the badass ED of the ACLU of SoCal for forty years.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
TIL that Montenegro is still a country.
posted by threeturtles at 6:20 PM on March 15, 2017
posted by threeturtles at 6:20 PM on March 15, 2017
TIL that Montenegro is still a country.
Still? It's only been since 2006; give it a while!
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 6:23 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Still? It's only been since 2006; give it a while!
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 6:23 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Ok, guys: my terrible, terrible, terrible senator is having a town hall on Friday, and I am going! (She scheduled it at absolutely the least convenient time she could find: at a college on spring break, on St. Patrick's Day, in a town with a big parade, an hour before the parade begins. Fuck her. I am taking a vacation day from work and going.) What should I ask her? Assume she is 100% on board with every aspect of the Trump agenda.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [33 favorites]
FelliniBlank: "Gotta say, it's been a pretty enjoyably ides-y Ides of March so far."
Eh, needs more haruspices.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Eh, needs more haruspices.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
TIL that Montenegro is still a country.
There was a Putin-backed coup attempt there just last year. If I were Montenegro I wouldn't be buying any green bananas.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:28 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
There was a Putin-backed coup attempt there just last year. If I were Montenegro I wouldn't be buying any green bananas.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:28 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
For reference, Judge Bybee (who wrote that dissent) signed the torture memos in Bush's Justice Department. The fact that he is on the Ninth Circuit is phenomenally offensive to the rule of law.
posted by zachlipton at 6:32 PM on March 15, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:32 PM on March 15, 2017 [44 favorites]
'The senator from Kentucky is now working for Putin': John McCain slams Rand Paul for blocking Montenegro from joining NATO
I have news for you John, so are you.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:33 PM on March 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
I have news for you John, so are you.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:33 PM on March 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
>The fact that he is on the Ninth Circuit is phenomenally offensive to the rule of law.
And yet even he sounds like The Voice Of Reason compared with our cheddar-flavored Caligula.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
And yet even he sounds like The Voice Of Reason compared with our cheddar-flavored Caligula.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
On the Feinstein/Grassley press briefing:
What makes viewers or reporters believe that Feinstein was shaken after the FBI meeting? I read nothing in her body language to suggest that but I might be missing something.
I am, however, like others, gratified that there appear to be at least two adults in the USCongress, and these two adults played hardball and won (the strong language of Grassely used to get the briefing).
I fucking hate donald trump.
posted by bluesky43 at 6:36 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
What makes viewers or reporters believe that Feinstein was shaken after the FBI meeting? I read nothing in her body language to suggest that but I might be missing something.
I am, however, like others, gratified that there appear to be at least two adults in the USCongress, and these two adults played hardball and won (the strong language of Grassely used to get the briefing).
I fucking hate donald trump.
posted by bluesky43 at 6:36 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
There would definitely be a popular pressure to bring Obama back,
What? If we're going there, why not go with the person who actually got the most votes and didn't commit fucking treason to throw an election?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:37 PM on March 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
What? If we're going there, why not go with the person who actually got the most votes and didn't commit fucking treason to throw an election?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:37 PM on March 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
I misread Judge Bybee's name as Judge Babyee.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
how about judge beebee
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:40 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:40 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
And yet even he sounds like The Voice Of Reason compared with our cheddar-flavored Caligula.
I still can't get my head around the fact that in this dimension, David Frum is... well, not *good*, but not the complete and totally irredeemably evil fuck I remember.
posted by mikelieman at 6:42 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I still can't get my head around the fact that in this dimension, David Frum is... well, not *good*, but not the complete and totally irredeemably evil fuck I remember.
posted by mikelieman at 6:42 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
There would definitely be a popular pressure to bring Obama back, but I don't think he'd comply, because there would be serious issues with that.
That is so far away from reality. So far.
What makes viewers or reporters believe that Feinstein was shaken after the FBI meeting? I read nothing in her body language to suggest that but I might be missing something.
Hill reporters see her all the time. I have never seen her look like that on camera. Is she shaken? I read it as more exhausted and burdened. I did see several people say that they haven't seen her act like that since Harvey Milk was assassinated.
posted by futz at 6:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
That is so far away from reality. So far.
What makes viewers or reporters believe that Feinstein was shaken after the FBI meeting? I read nothing in her body language to suggest that but I might be missing something.
Hill reporters see her all the time. I have never seen her look like that on camera. Is she shaken? I read it as more exhausted and burdened. I did see several people say that they haven't seen her act like that since Harvey Milk was assassinated.
posted by futz at 6:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
What makes viewers or reporters believe that Feinstein was shaken after the FBI meeting? I read nothing in her body language to suggest that but I might be missing something.
Regular contact, basically. Full-time Hill reporters have a well-established relationship with the pols, especially on the Senate side because there are only 100 of them, and they know the difference between normal (even on the intel side) and not normal. Perhaps people are too quick to point to Feinstein speaking after the murder of Harvey Milk, but it's an inevitable reference point.
posted by holgate at 6:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
Regular contact, basically. Full-time Hill reporters have a well-established relationship with the pols, especially on the Senate side because there are only 100 of them, and they know the difference between normal (even on the intel side) and not normal. Perhaps people are too quick to point to Feinstein speaking after the murder of Harvey Milk, but it's an inevitable reference point.
posted by holgate at 6:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
...cheddar-flavored Caligula.
That is a vile calumny against the most noble of the cheeses.
posted by Floydd at 6:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
That is a vile calumny against the most noble of the cheeses.
posted by Floydd at 6:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
I've seen that commentary and I think it's rather an exaggeration. The clip of Feinstein announcing that Milk and Moscone were shot and killed by Dan White is one of the most haunting moments of television I've ever seen (I also saw it a lot, since I worked on a play years ago that used it). This wasn't that. Nothing is that. But I do think she certainly looked rattled when she spoke.
posted by zachlipton at 6:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Tucker Carlson asked Trump if he talks to anyone before he tweets or whether he'd listen to anyone who suggested he not tweet something. His response is a rambling rant that includes a discussion of how much money the Apprentice made.
posted by zachlipton at 6:52 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:52 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oh, I agree that it's a bad comparison, and that it was still not normal business. Grassley wasn't even willing to engage with questions on whether Comey had satisfied the concerns that triggered the meeting.
posted by holgate at 6:54 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by holgate at 6:54 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump's eliminating the National Endowment for the Arts and Humanities altogether.
posted by flatluigi at 6:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by flatluigi at 6:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [25 favorites]
Buzzfeed: Trump’s Lawyer Launched An Offshore Casino — And Left A Wake Of Angry Creditors: The casino’s implosion would be of little note, one of at least a dozen offshore gambling operations to fail in Florida during the last decade, except that one of the owners of Atlantic Casino is now President Donald Trump’s personal attorney and close advisor, Michael D. Cohen. This chapter of Cohen’s life has not been fully reported before and offers a rare opportunity to understand how an important figure in Trump’s inner circle conducted business.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
The costs will be roughly equivalent on an annualized basis. But Melania claims she will move to the WH after the school year is over. We'll see. I suggest she flee to Canada and seek asylum as a refugee instead.
posted by Justinian at 7:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
“The only winners under the GOP’s healthcare repeal are wealthy Americans who stand to pocket a $600 billion windfall in tax breaks. Those cuts, and the meager deficit reduction in this scheme, come at a heavy price for working families and people on Medicaid. For millions of Americans, ‘TrumpCare’ will go down in history as the healthcare equivalent of Trump University – that is to say, a complete and utter sham.”From my Congressman, the inestimable Raul M. Grijalva. I'm always proud to be a Tucsonan, but this is getting ridiculous.
posted by MrVisible at 7:10 PM on March 15, 2017 [23 favorites]
Trump's eliminating the National Endowment for the Arts and Humanities altogether.
Mr. Trump’s budget will be the first time a president has called for ending the endowments, which were created in 1965, when President Lyndon B. Johnson signed legislation declaring that any “advanced civilization” must fully value the arts, the humanities and cultural activity.It makes sense because we're not an advanced civilization anymore. Let's just update the legislation:
The world leadership which has come to the United States canposted by kirkaracha at 7:13 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]notrest solely upon superior power, wealth, and technology, but must be solidly founded upon worldwide respect and admiration for the Nation's high qualities as a leader in the realm of ideas and of the spirit.
Trump's eliminating the National Endowment for the Arts and Humanities altogether.
Trump isn't doing shit. The president's budget proposal is just a proposal. Ask all the responsible Obama budgets that fully funded the IRS, CMS and HHS. The legislative branch passes laws that set the budget.
Any cuts will be 100% owned by the Republican congress and Republican voters. Republicans are Trump. There's no difference whatsoever. We need to be crystal clear about that at all times.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:15 PM on March 15, 2017 [53 favorites]
Trump isn't doing shit. The president's budget proposal is just a proposal. Ask all the responsible Obama budgets that fully funded the IRS, CMS and HHS. The legislative branch passes laws that set the budget.
Any cuts will be 100% owned by the Republican congress and Republican voters. Republicans are Trump. There's no difference whatsoever. We need to be crystal clear about that at all times.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:15 PM on March 15, 2017 [53 favorites]
From Justice Bybee's dissent:
oh hell. because of course one of the authors of the Torture Memos went on to burrow his way into the judiciary.
posted by indubitable at 7:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
oh hell. because of course one of the authors of the Torture Memos went on to burrow his way into the judiciary.
* Democratic Senator Charles Schumer noted that he supported Bybee's confirmation specifically because the judge's conservative views would help to moderate "the most liberal court in the country."fuck everything
posted by indubitable at 7:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
Democratic Senator Charles Schumer noted that he supported Bybee's confirmation specifically because the judge's conservative views would help to moderate "the most liberal court in the country."
Just when you thought the decision not to primary Chuck Schumer couldn't possibly get any worse.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:17 PM on March 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
Just when you thought the decision not to primary Chuck Schumer couldn't possibly get any worse.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:17 PM on March 15, 2017 [19 favorites]
i guess i owe you a coke now, zachlipton. serves me right for posting before [x new comments].
posted by indubitable at 7:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by indubitable at 7:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
No, indubitable, I'm glad we have another reason to hate Schumer. I didn't know he specifically said something so awful.
The bees will remember.
posted by zachlipton at 7:36 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
The bees will remember.
posted by zachlipton at 7:36 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Fuuuuck yoooouuuuu!!! Go spend some time in Cambodia or Nepal and see the children who haven't had the benefit of vaccinations.
@CNN:
HHS Secretary Tom Price says it should be up to states to regulate whether immunizations are required http://snpy.tv/2muO0H2
posted by chris24 at 7:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
@CNN:
HHS Secretary Tom Price says it should be up to states to regulate whether immunizations are required http://snpy.tv/2muO0H2
posted by chris24 at 7:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
Federal court blocks deportation of Afghan special visa recipient
-- A federal court late Wednesday stopped the Trump administration from deporting an Afghan man who is trying to enter the United States with a special visa reserved for those who have assisted the U.S. mission in Afghanistan at great risk to their own lives.
-- Foydel said immigration authorities had held the 25-year-old for nearly 36 hours without providing access to a lawyer, during which time the government says he voluntarily withdrew his application for entry to the United States. The U.S. State Department revoked his visa, at the request of Customs and Border Protection (CBP), Tuesday night, she said.
BULLSHIT. I'd bet big $$$ that this man did not voluntarily withdraw his application for entry...Duh. So fucking wrong and against all common sense. I am so angry.
posted by futz at 7:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
-- A federal court late Wednesday stopped the Trump administration from deporting an Afghan man who is trying to enter the United States with a special visa reserved for those who have assisted the U.S. mission in Afghanistan at great risk to their own lives.
-- Foydel said immigration authorities had held the 25-year-old for nearly 36 hours without providing access to a lawyer, during which time the government says he voluntarily withdrew his application for entry to the United States. The U.S. State Department revoked his visa, at the request of Customs and Border Protection (CBP), Tuesday night, she said.
BULLSHIT. I'd bet big $$$ that this man did not voluntarily withdraw his application for entry...Duh. So fucking wrong and against all common sense. I am so angry.
posted by futz at 7:45 PM on March 15, 2017 [24 favorites]
Fucking Chuck Schumer. When will Democrats like him stop acting like the nerdy kid who ass kisses the popular jocks at school? The popular jocks are never going to like you bro, they have complete and utter contempt for you and everything you stand for. Your attempts at ingratiating yourself with them will only make them despise you more, because they view compromise as weakness.
posted by supercrayon at 7:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 7:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
To be clear, that Schumer quote was from 2003.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
If anyone is interested David Cay Johnston is on msnbc now right after the commercial break.
posted by futz at 7:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by futz at 7:50 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've caught up. Come on Tehund, you can do it!
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:51 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:51 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
Rich Lowry in Politico ought to be a shit-covered shit fondant, but it's actually a pretty good overview of the WH-Congress relationship: because the GOP had two very different campaigns for the presidential and congressional elections, there is no "presidential faction" in Congress, just a marriage of convenience. If the AHCA goes down, "[t]he explanation of the president and his supporters won’t be that he backed a flawed strategy and bill in the House and paid the price. It will be that he was stabbed in the back."
posted by holgate at 7:56 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by holgate at 7:56 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
HHS Secretary Tom Price says it should be up to states to regulate whether immunizations are required
"Let's sell measles across state lines!"
posted by holgate at 7:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
"Let's sell measles across state lines!"
posted by holgate at 7:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [28 favorites]
It will be that he was stabbed in the back.
On the Ides of March no less.
posted by emjaybee at 8:03 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
On the Ides of March no less.
posted by emjaybee at 8:03 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
To be clear, that Schumer quote was from 2003.
That doesn't make it better, it just shows Schumer has been a sniveling weasel since 2003. Bybee was a monster then too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:05 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
That doesn't make it better, it just shows Schumer has been a sniveling weasel since 2003. Bybee was a monster then too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:05 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've always been so glad that being anti-vax wasn't a partisan issue. If it finds a permanent home in the Republican party
No no no, unfortunately this is not true at all.
posted by futz at 8:06 PM on March 15, 2017
No no no, unfortunately this is not true at all.
posted by futz at 8:06 PM on March 15, 2017
I've always been so glad that being anti-vax wasn't a partisan issue. If it finds a permanent home in the Republican party, you are going to see vaccination rates drop 50% nationwide in just a few years. Absolutely terrifying.
and there i will be, sitting on my porch, sipping a beer, mumbling to myself, "huh, I always figured the apocalypse would come cloaked in nuclear fire"
posted by indubitable at 8:06 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
and there i will be, sitting on my porch, sipping a beer, mumbling to myself, "huh, I always figured the apocalypse would come cloaked in nuclear fire"
posted by indubitable at 8:06 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
For those that didn't send a postcard yet, I am pleased to report that MyPostcard.com has a fine assortment of ready-made protest designs from Democracy Delivered. You can spend $3 and do it without leaving your house.
posted by mmoncur at 8:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 8:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
The news JUST reported 56 cases of mumps confirmed in Dallas, so guess the anti-vaxxing has gotten here already.
posted by emjaybee at 8:08 PM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 8:08 PM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh my, I read your comment totally wrong great_radio. Apologies and retracted!
posted by futz at 8:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by futz at 8:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump pops back to see the press on Air Force One (a short time after calling them horrible on stage). On healthcare, he says: "We will get something through. We're going to mix it up, we're going to come up with something. We always do." [as noted here, this is essentially his first bill, so what the heck does "we always do" even mean?]
He also says he's going to have rallies every two weeks. God help us.
posted by zachlipton at 8:19 PM on March 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
He also says he's going to have rallies every two weeks. God help us.
posted by zachlipton at 8:19 PM on March 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
Van Jones is on Bravo's "What What Happens Live" and said seriously that he wants Oprah to run for POTUS in 2020. hmmm.
posted by futz at 8:19 PM on March 15, 2017
posted by futz at 8:19 PM on March 15, 2017
"We will get something through. We're going to mix it up, we're going to come up with something. We always do."
It's just healthcare for millions of people. Just wing it and shoot from the hip. What could go wrong?
posted by Talez at 8:21 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's just healthcare for millions of people. Just wing it and shoot from the hip. What could go wrong?
posted by Talez at 8:21 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Van Jones needs a vacation. He's been in medialand for a bit too long.
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:25 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
so what the heck does "we always do" even mean
That's really quite funny to me. Some of the development teams I've worked on, with terrible project management, have used that as a motto. "We'll muddle through. It'll work out in the end. We always do."
Famous last words, and a sign things aren't going well at all and will not end well, but the team's tendency to ignore the bad news means you still feel like you come out on top. Not surprised Trump would use that phrasing. There's a dire corporate comedy, which would rival Office Space, going on in the West Wing now.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:26 PM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
That's really quite funny to me. Some of the development teams I've worked on, with terrible project management, have used that as a motto. "We'll muddle through. It'll work out in the end. We always do."
Famous last words, and a sign things aren't going well at all and will not end well, but the team's tendency to ignore the bad news means you still feel like you come out on top. Not surprised Trump would use that phrasing. There's a dire corporate comedy, which would rival Office Space, going on in the West Wing now.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:26 PM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
this is essentially his first bill, so what the heck does "we always do" even mean
I tried to find a reasonable way of interpreting this and really can't. I guess it's: we always come up with some way of postponing the catastrophe that I, Donald Trump, am in my essence, corporeally and spiritually. The bombs haven't gone off yet! We always keep my finger off the trigger! We always do!
posted by dis_integration at 8:31 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I tried to find a reasonable way of interpreting this and really can't. I guess it's: we always come up with some way of postponing the catastrophe that I, Donald Trump, am in my essence, corporeally and spiritually. The bombs haven't gone off yet! We always keep my finger off the trigger! We always do!
posted by dis_integration at 8:31 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Van Jones is on Bravo's "What What Happens Live" and said seriously that he wants Oprah to run for POTUS in 2020. hmmm.
I just want Andy Cohen to moderate all future debates.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:34 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I just want Andy Cohen to moderate all future debates.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:34 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
At some point, Trump is going to start ignoring the courts outright. This is where the visible public protests will gain importance. The people need to show up and stand behind the courts and the rule of law. That's the only counter to flagrant violation of democratic checks and balances, when you can no longer trust the agents of the state to enforce them.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 8:35 PM on March 15, 2017 [18 favorites]
"We're going to mix it up, we're going to come up with something. We always do."
For Donald, what he 'always does' is one form of bankruptcy or liquidation, leaving angry investors/contractors/innocent bystanders, which is the inevitable fate of any "Republican Health Care Plan", so, mmmkay...
he wants Oprah to run for POTUS in 2020. hmmm.
Donald is starting a new American tradition of Rule By Celebrity, so why not? Although I live in dread fear of Oprah naming Dr. Oz her Secretary of HHS.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:37 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
For Donald, what he 'always does' is one form of bankruptcy or liquidation, leaving angry investors/contractors/innocent bystanders, which is the inevitable fate of any "Republican Health Care Plan", so, mmmkay...
he wants Oprah to run for POTUS in 2020. hmmm.
Donald is starting a new American tradition of Rule By Celebrity, so why not? Although I live in dread fear of Oprah naming Dr. Oz her Secretary of HHS.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:37 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
I give Cheez-Wizard 2 more months, if he's fuckin lucky. There's a smell of desperation that's getting stronger. Nobody's falling for the bullshit.
And that liver-spotted, sclerotic paranoiac Bannon can go jerk himself to Mein Kampf for all eternity in a padded room.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:37 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
And that liver-spotted, sclerotic paranoiac Bannon can go jerk himself to Mein Kampf for all eternity in a padded room.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:37 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Will absolutely take Dr. Oz over anyone appointed by Trump.
posted by Artw at 8:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:39 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
At some point, Trump is going to start ignoring the courts outright.
Trump's already ignoring the rule of law, but he hasn't publicly called for people to choose between the rule of law and loyalty to Trumpism. That would be the end of constitutional democracy in the USA.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:40 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump's already ignoring the rule of law, but he hasn't publicly called for people to choose between the rule of law and loyalty to Trumpism. That would be the end of constitutional democracy in the USA.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:40 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
"We will get something through. We're going to mix it up, we're going to come up with something. We always do." [as noted here, this is essentially his first bill, so what the heck does "we always do" even mean?]
It means he always gets it mixed up. You know, the truth, the facts, the alternative facts, the lies. It's like, whatever, I'm Emperor Cheeto, I do what I want!
posted by axiom at 8:48 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
It means he always gets it mixed up. You know, the truth, the facts, the alternative facts, the lies. It's like, whatever, I'm Emperor Cheeto, I do what I want!
posted by axiom at 8:48 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hey all, a brief dispatch from puppy land . . . I can't follow these threads the way I once did so apologies if this was ever discussed, but I am burning with curiosity to know if the right wing narrative of liberals having "so much hatred" started with Trump's comment about Hillary during one of the debates, or if it predates that. I have recently added a few virulent Trump supporters on FB and this is pretty much all they have to say about anything. It's a constant drumbeat in the comments to every post. "Their hatred is overtaking them," "I've never seen this much hatred in my life," "hatred to the point of wanting him impeached," etc. Always the word "hatred."
posted by HotToddy at 8:49 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 8:49 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Just parrot it back to them, HT. "Trump has hatred for PoC, hatred for families, hatred for American Constitution, hatred for decency, manners, etc. More effective than trying to argue with research or actual facts.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, projection is very much a thing with Trumpies, so you can safely assume they are filled with hatred. Also, they are mad they we aren't doing Lefty Emotional Labor by being nice to them and if you're not licking their boots, then you are mean and filled with hate.
As to whether they said it before the election, I don't remember seeing it much if at all. They were more on the "crooked elites" "Benghazi" train then.
I really think the "You liberals are so MEAN!" thing started with the Women's March/Resistance actions in general. They weren't expecting that kind of response to Trump winning. They thought we'd just collapse. And maybe tell them how right they were all along.
posted by emjaybee at 8:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [39 favorites]
As to whether they said it before the election, I don't remember seeing it much if at all. They were more on the "crooked elites" "Benghazi" train then.
I really think the "You liberals are so MEAN!" thing started with the Women's March/Resistance actions in general. They weren't expecting that kind of response to Trump winning. They thought we'd just collapse. And maybe tell them how right they were all along.
posted by emjaybee at 8:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [39 favorites]
"I think we ought to back to the first one and go all the way which is what I wanted to do in the first."
Does... does he not realize that he makes the decisions on that score? Who overruled him on the first one? Darth Bannon?
posted by axiom at 8:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Does... does he not realize that he makes the decisions on that score? Who overruled him on the first one? Darth Bannon?
posted by axiom at 8:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fun little side note for those of you who (like me) are allergic to even the word 'Trump':
I run a gift shop that carries a game called Lord of the Wings: A Bird Trump Game. It's a lovely and educational and beautiful gift, but I have heard multiple customers mention that just the word 'Trump' being on there ruined it for them. I passed the feedback on to the publisher, and they responded that because they have gotten *so much* feedback like this, the next print run will have the word 'Trump' removed.
That's how toxic his brand is. It's so toxic that market forces responded.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [88 favorites]
I run a gift shop that carries a game called Lord of the Wings: A Bird Trump Game. It's a lovely and educational and beautiful gift, but I have heard multiple customers mention that just the word 'Trump' being on there ruined it for them. I passed the feedback on to the publisher, and they responded that because they have gotten *so much* feedback like this, the next print run will have the word 'Trump' removed.
That's how toxic his brand is. It's so toxic that market forces responded.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [88 favorites]
Liberals have always been the real haters to them, for not tolerating intolerance or whatever
They've always seen our disgust for conservative leaders and figureheads as more hateful than bigotry towards entire classes of people. This is nothing new
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
They've always seen our disgust for conservative leaders and figureheads as more hateful than bigotry towards entire classes of people. This is nothing new
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
Francisca Lino, mom of six, is about to be deported. Her congressman protested and was handcuffed.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [31 favorites]
Other news from my store: today someone walked in wearing a shirt that said "Veterans Before Refugees" and I successfully withheld myself from yelling at him over the idiocy of that false dichotomy.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 9:00 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 9:00 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Liberals have always been the real haters to them, for not tolerating intolerance or whatever
But has it ever been articulated as such? I don't ever remember hearing the one word over and over. It's pervasive in all of the crap they post.
(And just to clarify, I'm only curious about the origin of the thing. Not much of a FB debater at all.)
posted by HotToddy at 9:01 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
But has it ever been articulated as such? I don't ever remember hearing the one word over and over. It's pervasive in all of the crap they post.
(And just to clarify, I'm only curious about the origin of the thing. Not much of a FB debater at all.)
posted by HotToddy at 9:01 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Culty indoctrination techniques. Repeat the same inane phrase over and over. It may be from whatever media source/talking head they consume or even church.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 9:05 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 9:05 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Has prenzident wotzishame always used the royal 'we' or is this something new?
posted by um at 9:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by um at 9:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I definitely saw lots of "liberals are full of hate" stuff in those sweet sepia-toned years before Trump
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:07 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Their hatred is overtaking them," "I've never seen this much hatred in my life," "hatred to the point of wanting him impeached," etc. Always the word "hatred."
Two responses:
1) LOCK HER UP ... LOCK HER UP
2) "I just wish Obama could have run for a third term!"
posted by benzenedream at 9:19 PM on March 15, 2017
Two responses:
1) LOCK HER UP ... LOCK HER UP
2) "I just wish Obama could have run for a third term!"
posted by benzenedream at 9:19 PM on March 15, 2017
Has prenzident wotzishame always used the royal 'we' or is this something new?
Always? Dunno. Not trumpolologist. Not new, though. Fire bad.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:22 PM on March 15, 2017
Always? Dunno. Not trumpolologist. Not new, though. Fire bad.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:22 PM on March 15, 2017
Other news from my store: today someone walked in wearing a shirt that said "Veterans Before Refugees" and I successfully withheld myself from yelling at him over the idiocy of that false dichotomy.
What about the very valuable refugees that were essential to our veterans survival?! Of course I know that you can't say anything.
posted by futz at 9:27 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
What about the very valuable refugees that were essential to our veterans survival?! Of course I know that you can't say anything.
posted by futz at 9:27 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Post went for it and posted Trump's budget. It's a blueprint, of course, because why would we expect them to provide a fully detailed budget when they can skate on this? It's a $54 billion increase in defense spending, plus increases for immigration enforcement, offset by huge cuts elsewhere. The Post breaks it down here, with excellent graphics and links to detailed stories on each cabinet-level agency. There's so much awfulness on one web page.
Agencies to be eliminated entirely include the Appalachian Regional Commission, Americorps, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Legal Services Corporation (legal aid), and the National Endowments for the Arts and Humanities. 31% cut to EPA, 29% to State, 21% to Agriculture and Labor.
posted by zachlipton at 9:31 PM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
Agencies to be eliminated entirely include the Appalachian Regional Commission, Americorps, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Legal Services Corporation (legal aid), and the National Endowments for the Arts and Humanities. 31% cut to EPA, 29% to State, 21% to Agriculture and Labor.
posted by zachlipton at 9:31 PM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
If the AHCA goes down, "[t]he explanation of the president and his supporters won’t be that he backed a flawed strategy and bill in the House and paid the price. It will be that he was stabbed in the back."
It's increasingly looking like when the AHCA goes down (we'll see what happens in the AHCA Budget Committee hearing tomorrow), they'll do their darnedest to take Paul Ryan down with it.
posted by zachlipton at 9:48 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's increasingly looking like when the AHCA goes down (we'll see what happens in the AHCA Budget Committee hearing tomorrow), they'll do their darnedest to take Paul Ryan down with it.
posted by zachlipton at 9:48 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
If a freshman turned in this budget proposal, it would be graded a C, I think - it has all the department names and everything is spell-checked, but none of it makes any sense.
To pick out one tiny nugget from this fractally-stupid proposal: Funding for DHS goes up. (Of course.) But the proposal cuts $667 million from grant programs to state and local agencies, including pre-disaster mitigation grants and counterterrorism funding.
Or: the proposal increases funding for efforts to prevent and treat opioid addictions but decreases funding for the National Institutes of Health and certain programs to train health professionals.
It's a stupid, mean-spirited, short-sighted, nasty budget proposal. I would expect no less from this administration.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:51 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
To pick out one tiny nugget from this fractally-stupid proposal: Funding for DHS goes up. (Of course.) But the proposal cuts $667 million from grant programs to state and local agencies, including pre-disaster mitigation grants and counterterrorism funding.
Or: the proposal increases funding for efforts to prevent and treat opioid addictions but decreases funding for the National Institutes of Health and certain programs to train health professionals.
It's a stupid, mean-spirited, short-sighted, nasty budget proposal. I would expect no less from this administration.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:51 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
I know I should be above wishing awful fates to people... but I hope Paul Ryan gets "taken down" to the extent that he is homeless, cold, and hungry, without health care that he needs. Only then will he even approach getting what he deserves.
And yet if he showed up on my doorstep I'd still give him a bowl of soup, because I'm not a goddamned soulless granny-starving asshole.
It might not be GOOD soup, though....
posted by litlnemo at 9:52 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
And yet if he showed up on my doorstep I'd still give him a bowl of soup, because I'm not a goddamned soulless granny-starving asshole.
It might not be GOOD soup, though....
posted by litlnemo at 9:52 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
"The budget would zero out the National Institute of Standards and Technology’s $124 million Manufacturing Extension Partnership program, which is intended to support the manufacturing industry."
So. Much. Winning.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:52 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
So. Much. Winning.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:52 PM on March 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
In order to flee this country, people are taking their toddlers and trekking across the desolate, frozen hellscape that is Northern Minnesota. Walking. To Canada. In winter.
posted by Hypatia at 9:53 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Hypatia at 9:53 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
"The blueprint does not mention the National Science Foundation, which provides more than $7 billion annually in grants. That may fall under the category of “other agencies,” which are not detailed but which the blueprint puts down for a 9.8 percent cut."
DOES NOT MENTION the National Science Foundation. DOES NOT MENTION.
Ok, I'm done.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
DOES NOT MENTION the National Science Foundation. DOES NOT MENTION.
Ok, I'm done.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:55 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
Hey, some of us really love that frozen, desolate hellscape of northern Minnesota and do a lot of winter camping.
posted by misterpatrick at 9:56 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by misterpatrick at 9:56 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
... I am burning with curiosity to know if the right wing narrative of liberals having "so much hatred" started with Trump's comment about Hillary during one of the debates, or if it predates that.
It's probably just the same kind of projection that leads to Trump's Mirror, as well as the right seeing scammers, ethnicity-motivated terrorists, and (in some communities) pedophiles everywhere.
posted by IAmUnaware at 9:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's probably just the same kind of projection that leads to Trump's Mirror, as well as the right seeing scammers, ethnicity-motivated terrorists, and (in some communities) pedophiles everywhere.
posted by IAmUnaware at 9:57 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hope you all like government shutdowns. No way this is getting 60 votes in the Senate. Government funding for the current fiscal year runs out April 28 unless they work out a deal.
posted by zachlipton at 9:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:58 PM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Stupid and meanspirited is right. Among the agencies to be shut down entirely: U.S. Interagency Council on Homelessness.
And I'm pretty sure the Appalachian Regional Commission and the Denali Commission serve communities who most definitely voted for He, Trump.
posted by suelac at 10:00 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
And I'm pretty sure the Appalachian Regional Commission and the Denali Commission serve communities who most definitely voted for He, Trump.
posted by suelac at 10:00 PM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Our prime minister went on a fucking date with Ivanka Trump.
Fuck you for normalizing this shit, Trudeau.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:01 PM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
Fuck you for normalizing this shit, Trudeau.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:01 PM on March 15, 2017 [37 favorites]
Hey, some of us really love that frozen, desolate hellscape of northern Minnesota and do a lot of winter camping.
posted by misterpatrick
Did you read the article?? Because this is not well prepared winter camping. It is the exact opposite. Jesus.
posted by futz at 10:02 PM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by misterpatrick
Did you read the article?? Because this is not well prepared winter camping. It is the exact opposite. Jesus.
posted by futz at 10:02 PM on March 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
MetaFilter: everything is spell-checked, but none of it makes any sense.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:06 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:06 PM on March 15, 2017 [8 favorites]
The ARC won't be needed because everyone in the mountains will be mining coal again, or something.
posted by holgate at 10:08 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by holgate at 10:08 PM on March 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is what people are willing to risk to flee the US. I never thought I'd see anything like this.
-- The migrants found near Emerson told firefighters they had been dropped off near the border and walked for about an hour through the snowy prairie before someone called Canadian authorities.
“Even an hour in this wind and this weather is a long time,” French told reporters afterward. “We got them out of the elements right away and into a warm place.”
One person was taken to a hospital and treated for a broken arm, firefighters said. The others were checked for hypothermia and frostbite, then turned over to the Canadian Border Services Agency for processing. The 1-year-old was not injured, Global News reported.
-- Town officials in Emerson said they were stunned that the asylum seekers had decided to travel in Wednesday’s storm.
“Of all things it was probably one of the windiest blizzards we’ve had all winter and they come across where it’s literally zero visibility,” Greg Janzen, the town manager, told the Canadian Press. “I think they walked almost right through Emerson without knowing they were here.”
posted by futz at 10:09 PM on March 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
-- The migrants found near Emerson told firefighters they had been dropped off near the border and walked for about an hour through the snowy prairie before someone called Canadian authorities.
“Even an hour in this wind and this weather is a long time,” French told reporters afterward. “We got them out of the elements right away and into a warm place.”
One person was taken to a hospital and treated for a broken arm, firefighters said. The others were checked for hypothermia and frostbite, then turned over to the Canadian Border Services Agency for processing. The 1-year-old was not injured, Global News reported.
-- Town officials in Emerson said they were stunned that the asylum seekers had decided to travel in Wednesday’s storm.
“Of all things it was probably one of the windiest blizzards we’ve had all winter and they come across where it’s literally zero visibility,” Greg Janzen, the town manager, told the Canadian Press. “I think they walked almost right through Emerson without knowing they were here.”
posted by futz at 10:09 PM on March 15, 2017 [16 favorites]
In CBP Only Following Orders news, a group of Canadian nurses working in Detroit on TN visas were refused re-entry. The Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit had been recruiting qualified staff from Windsor, but, y'know, borders.
posted by holgate at 10:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by holgate at 10:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [27 favorites]
Hey, some of us really love that frozen, desolate hellscape of northern Minnesota and do a lot of winter camping.
When I used to live in Minnesota, it wasn't uncommon for us to come across car accidents in winter. Usually people were fine, thanks to seat belts, but they were shook up of course. We stopped to help them. All the other cars on the road stopped to see if there was something they could help with--a ride to the nearest town? cell phone? emergency blankets?-- because otherwise the people could freeze to death.
One man quoted in that article said so many cars passed them before one finally picked them up and drove them to the border. Sure it must be a moral dilemma: do you help people flee in a dangerous situation by making their situation a tiny bit safer? Can you really let them out of your car at the end of the country and say "Well, good luck and try not to freeze to death!"
But he said so many cars passed him by.
posted by Hypatia at 10:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
When I used to live in Minnesota, it wasn't uncommon for us to come across car accidents in winter. Usually people were fine, thanks to seat belts, but they were shook up of course. We stopped to help them. All the other cars on the road stopped to see if there was something they could help with--a ride to the nearest town? cell phone? emergency blankets?-- because otherwise the people could freeze to death.
One man quoted in that article said so many cars passed them before one finally picked them up and drove them to the border. Sure it must be a moral dilemma: do you help people flee in a dangerous situation by making their situation a tiny bit safer? Can you really let them out of your car at the end of the country and say "Well, good luck and try not to freeze to death!"
But he said so many cars passed him by.
posted by Hypatia at 10:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump's budget is like one of those newspaper interactive budgets where you move the sliders up and down to set your preferences until you realize the point of the exercise is to grok that this shit is complicated and full of compromises and you decide to get serious and pick one priority and maybe next year you'll be able to get two if you play your cards right on the economic choices you make this year and instead Trumpco said fuck it, we're all in with the sliders.
posted by notyou at 10:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by notyou at 10:16 PM on March 15, 2017 [13 favorites]
I am burning with curiosity to know if the right wing narrative of liberals having "so much hatred" started with...
Faulty premise. It's the narrative of liberals having "so much hatred" that started the right wing. It's a foundational axiom of right wing thought that your opponents -- whether we're talking about the USSR, liberals, "Islamic Extremism," or anybody else -- are motivated by "hatred" rather than by comprehensible interests that would become apparent after a few minutes thought by anybody with two functioning mirror neurons to rub together.
In order to justify what they intend to do to their opponents, they need to believe that their opponents' motivations are alien, intrinsic, and implacable. Empathy is treason.
posted by dirge at 10:19 PM on March 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
Faulty premise. It's the narrative of liberals having "so much hatred" that started the right wing. It's a foundational axiom of right wing thought that your opponents -- whether we're talking about the USSR, liberals, "Islamic Extremism," or anybody else -- are motivated by "hatred" rather than by comprehensible interests that would become apparent after a few minutes thought by anybody with two functioning mirror neurons to rub together.
In order to justify what they intend to do to their opponents, they need to believe that their opponents' motivations are alien, intrinsic, and implacable. Empathy is treason.
posted by dirge at 10:19 PM on March 15, 2017 [34 favorites]
Russian spy ship again spotted off East Coast
For the second time in a month a Russian spy ship has been spotted near the US coastline, this time off the coast of Georgia.
The Viktor Leonov, a Russian spy vessel outfitted with a variety of high-tech spy equipment and designed to intercept communications signals, was spotted some 20 miles south of the US Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay near the Florida border, a US defense official told CNN. It was heading north.
Florida huh? Possibly related? [This was posted way earlier in this thread] Yachts of Trump financial backer, Russian oligarch seen close together [Updated: 6:17 p.m. Wednesday, March 15, 2017 | Posted: 6:40 p.m. Tuesday, March 14, 2017].
Article makes no mention of what they updated. Was it a typo? A retraction? I hate it when they don't explain why they updated the article.
posted by futz at 10:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
For the second time in a month a Russian spy ship has been spotted near the US coastline, this time off the coast of Georgia.
The Viktor Leonov, a Russian spy vessel outfitted with a variety of high-tech spy equipment and designed to intercept communications signals, was spotted some 20 miles south of the US Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay near the Florida border, a US defense official told CNN. It was heading north.
Florida huh? Possibly related? [This was posted way earlier in this thread] Yachts of Trump financial backer, Russian oligarch seen close together [Updated: 6:17 p.m. Wednesday, March 15, 2017 | Posted: 6:40 p.m. Tuesday, March 14, 2017].
Article makes no mention of what they updated. Was it a typo? A retraction? I hate it when they don't explain why they updated the article.
posted by futz at 10:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
In CBP Only Following Orders news, a group of Canadian nurses working in Detroit on TN visas were refused re-entry. The Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit had been recruiting qualified staff from Windsor, but, y'know, borders.
Having lived in Windsor, I can testify to the fact that there are lots of people (on both sides of the border) who live in either Windsor or Detroit and work in the other.
I had several university professors who were American, lived in Detroit, but worked in Canada. I also knew some people whose parents were health care workers (particularly nurses) who lived in Windsor, but worked in Detroit.
A roommate of mine's mother worked in Detroit. She went into labour early at work, and he was therefore born in the US, so he got dual citizenship quite by accident.
Assuming no border delays, from downtown to downtown, it's only a 20 minute drive. It's utterly bizarre that this workable arrangement should be disrupted by nothing short of fascistic xenophobia.
This is going to fuck things up for so many people in all sorts of ways.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:27 PM on March 15, 2017 [31 favorites]
Having lived in Windsor, I can testify to the fact that there are lots of people (on both sides of the border) who live in either Windsor or Detroit and work in the other.
I had several university professors who were American, lived in Detroit, but worked in Canada. I also knew some people whose parents were health care workers (particularly nurses) who lived in Windsor, but worked in Detroit.
A roommate of mine's mother worked in Detroit. She went into labour early at work, and he was therefore born in the US, so he got dual citizenship quite by accident.
Assuming no border delays, from downtown to downtown, it's only a 20 minute drive. It's utterly bizarre that this workable arrangement should be disrupted by nothing short of fascistic xenophobia.
This is going to fuck things up for so many people in all sorts of ways.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:27 PM on March 15, 2017 [31 favorites]
But has it ever been articulated as such? I don't ever remember hearing the one word over and over.
A. Yes, and B. I do. I was a teen during the Clinton years and it was omnipresent then. I feel like I could call up a traumatic flashback of circa 1994 Rush Limbaugh saying just those words into my earballs if I cared to, but I do not. I don't know how old it is but it is certainly more than two decades old. I would guess that it dates back to exactly when liberals coalesced around the idea of fighting bigotry and hate, whenever that was articulated in those terms. Everybody loves to find a hypocrite and if you can't find one, you manufacture one.
No conservative is as happy to find out that a liberal is a murderer or a shoplifter or an embezzler as he is to find out that a liberal hates anything or anyone. like if all you hate is "your father-in-law" or "lines at the DMV" or "war and poverty" it is all the same to them, hate is hate and they gotcha. they are simple folk with simple minds and to them, an angry liberal is hateful and a liberal who hates anything is a hypocrite. this is a tale as old as time. I hate all manner of things and hatred fires my spirit, but I am very clear that I fight sexism and racism and injustice, not hatred, so the joke is on them and they can search for hypocrisy up one side of me and down the other and they will not find any.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:41 PM on March 15, 2017 [22 favorites]
Donald is starting a new American tradition of Rule By Celebrity, so why not?
Can't blame Trump for that. Arnold Schwarzenegger was elected California governor 14 years ago, just 20 years after he became a citizen. And Ronald Reagan -- known only as a B-movie actor -- was elected President 37 years ago, and California governor 50 years ago.
posted by msalt at 11:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Can't blame Trump for that. Arnold Schwarzenegger was elected California governor 14 years ago, just 20 years after he became a citizen. And Ronald Reagan -- known only as a B-movie actor -- was elected President 37 years ago, and California governor 50 years ago.
posted by msalt at 11:11 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
and will someone please tell that stupid bastard he's not running against hillary anymore?
This is the 2020 campaign. He needs somebody to slam at his campaign stops but the Democratic frontrunners haven't emerged yet, so Hillary will do for now.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 11:13 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is the 2020 campaign. He needs somebody to slam at his campaign stops but the Democratic frontrunners haven't emerged yet, so Hillary will do for now.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 11:13 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump's eliminating the National Endowment for the Arts and Humanities altogether.
Which costs what, the price of keeping Melania in her gilded tower?
I did the math, and it's .027%. To give a sense of perspective, let's say you do pretty well for yourself and make a nice $100,000 salary. This would be the equivalent of saving $27.
A year.
Fucking spiteful, is what this is.
posted by CommonSense at 11:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
Which costs what, the price of keeping Melania in her gilded tower?
I did the math, and it's .027%. To give a sense of perspective, let's say you do pretty well for yourself and make a nice $100,000 salary. This would be the equivalent of saving $27.
A year.
Fucking spiteful, is what this is.
posted by CommonSense at 11:20 PM on March 15, 2017 [30 favorites]
Trump’s budget calls for seismic disruption in medical and science research
The proposed budget would cut $6 billion from NIH, or 20% of its current budget. No word on the NSF yet, but DOE's Office of Science (which funds a lot of physics, high performance computing, and other research) is looking at a nearly 20% cut as well ($900m on a $5bn budget).
Fucking ridiculous, with research as underfunded as it is right now in this country, is what this is. At least there's a glimmer of hope in that these proposed cuts (along with the NEA, NEH and other cuts) may not make it into the final bill... but I don't know how much faith I want to put in Congress right now.
posted by un petit cadeau at 11:28 PM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
The proposed budget would cut $6 billion from NIH, or 20% of its current budget. No word on the NSF yet, but DOE's Office of Science (which funds a lot of physics, high performance computing, and other research) is looking at a nearly 20% cut as well ($900m on a $5bn budget).
Fucking ridiculous, with research as underfunded as it is right now in this country, is what this is. At least there's a glimmer of hope in that these proposed cuts (along with the NEA, NEH and other cuts) may not make it into the final bill... but I don't know how much faith I want to put in Congress right now.
posted by un petit cadeau at 11:28 PM on March 15, 2017 [15 favorites]
Goddammit, when our daughter was due to be born in January, 2015, we toyed with the idea of making an extended visit to our friends in Toronto around the time our little one was due. (OK, it was just me — my wife rolled her eyes and said I was being silly to contemplate such a thing, especially as we live in Baltimore and were slated to have our child at Johns Hopkins.)
Ohhhhhhhh, boy do I wish we had done that now. Instant dual citizenship for her, and if I understand things correctly, once she hit 18, she could sponsor us for Canadian citizenship. (Or not. I dunno. I'm guessing.) Still, the least we could've done for our daughter is give her that Plan B. Of course, back in the halcyon days of January, 2015, we foolishly assumed everything would be alright.
Sigh.
posted by CommonSense at 11:28 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ohhhhhhhh, boy do I wish we had done that now. Instant dual citizenship for her, and if I understand things correctly, once she hit 18, she could sponsor us for Canadian citizenship. (Or not. I dunno. I'm guessing.) Still, the least we could've done for our daughter is give her that Plan B. Of course, back in the halcyon days of January, 2015, we foolishly assumed everything would be alright.
Sigh.
posted by CommonSense at 11:28 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was born not all that far from Canada and you cannot imagine how many times I've wished my mom had taken a perfectly-timed day trip.
posted by litlnemo at 11:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by litlnemo at 11:47 PM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I am burning with curiosity to know if the right wing narrative of liberals having "so much hatred" started with...
IIRC, this phrasing was preceded by the notion, dating from the GWB years, that liberals are "so angry." Often applied to Hillary. Also elections where the popular vote didn't matter (2000) or the candidate was smeared in a ludicrous way (2004). Also a Republican fool in the White House.
posted by carmicha at 11:59 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
IIRC, this phrasing was preceded by the notion, dating from the GWB years, that liberals are "so angry." Often applied to Hillary. Also elections where the popular vote didn't matter (2000) or the candidate was smeared in a ludicrous way (2004). Also a Republican fool in the White House.
posted by carmicha at 11:59 PM on March 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is the 2020 campaign. He needs somebody to slam at his campaign stops but the Democratic frontrunners haven't emerged yet, so Hillary will do for now.
The Three Minute Hate requires no explicit campaign.
posted by jaduncan at 12:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Three Minute Hate requires no explicit campaign.
posted by jaduncan at 12:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trump’s budget calls for seismic disruption in medical and science research
Hey, I was waiting for this shoe to drop. Lovely! A 20% cut for the NIH! Death to ARPA-E (which you'd think would be the sort of results-focused initiative Republicans would like, but ZOMG biofuels ewww, I guess?), and an almost $1 billion dollar cut to the DOE's Office of Science (which really does fund stuff across all the sciences)! The cuts we already knew were coming to the NOAA and of course the EPA! And the NSF doesn't even get mentioned, though the WaPo is guessing they'd be at 10% or so too?! I, uh, wow. When I remember how unhappy everyone was about the 5-10% cuts related to the sequestration bullshit... Even if these ridiculous cuts get mitigated somewhat in the final bill, I somehow suspect any final numbers will leave science - like the arts - in a rather worse funding position.
posted by ubersturm at 12:17 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hey, I was waiting for this shoe to drop. Lovely! A 20% cut for the NIH! Death to ARPA-E (which you'd think would be the sort of results-focused initiative Republicans would like, but ZOMG biofuels ewww, I guess?), and an almost $1 billion dollar cut to the DOE's Office of Science (which really does fund stuff across all the sciences)! The cuts we already knew were coming to the NOAA and of course the EPA! And the NSF doesn't even get mentioned, though the WaPo is guessing they'd be at 10% or so too?! I, uh, wow. When I remember how unhappy everyone was about the 5-10% cuts related to the sequestration bullshit... Even if these ridiculous cuts get mitigated somewhat in the final bill, I somehow suspect any final numbers will leave science - like the arts - in a rather worse funding position.
posted by ubersturm at 12:17 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here are the federal agencies and programs Trump wants to eliminate
These are not trump's ideas. He's not smart enough to even know that these departments exist let alone what they do. This is President Bannon's wet dream.
As if we needed any more proof that tRump is a puppet. He has zero idea what these departments do. Bannon can't keep trump under control long enough to insert his arm from rectum to mouth to make trump say what he wants. It's a horror movie of a ventriloquist's dummy run amok. trump is Chucky and this must piss off Bannon who wanted to be Dr. Frankenstein but instead finds himself lurking about the West wing with rohypnol and extra long latex free disposable gloves.
posted by futz at 12:29 AM on March 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
These are not trump's ideas. He's not smart enough to even know that these departments exist let alone what they do. This is President Bannon's wet dream.
As if we needed any more proof that tRump is a puppet. He has zero idea what these departments do. Bannon can't keep trump under control long enough to insert his arm from rectum to mouth to make trump say what he wants. It's a horror movie of a ventriloquist's dummy run amok. trump is Chucky and this must piss off Bannon who wanted to be Dr. Frankenstein but instead finds himself lurking about the West wing with rohypnol and extra long latex free disposable gloves.
posted by futz at 12:29 AM on March 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
I was just thinking about how the GOP campaign strategy always entails mocking Democratic presidential candidates for their strengths: those with policy chops and experience (all of them) cast as boring establishment wonks with whom no one would drink beer, Kerry's three Purple Hearts -> a narrative of him as a lying braggart courtesy of the swift boaters, Hillary's steadfastness in her marriage despite Bill's infidelities -> she's complicit in the paramours' abuse, Obama's optimism getting ridiculed for being "hopey changey," and so many other examples. So when Democrats point out that DJT is a failed businessman and that he's rapey as fuck and compromised re: Russia, etc. etc. etc., the GOP can just pretend that's a tactic designed to undermine his strengths, because that's exactly what they have always done. Projection, mirror, and razor all exist on a much wider scale in the GOP than just Trump.
posted by carmicha at 12:30 AM on March 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by carmicha at 12:30 AM on March 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
The really infuriating thing about the budget is that it starts with a scolding letter about how the debt is too high, but then it doesn't actually do anything to cut the deficit. Almost every dollar of these horrible cuts just goes to shift funding from the "everything else" category to the military, with a bit left over for more immigration enforcement and building a wall (actual amount of wall to be built is unknown) and some school vouchers (even though they think the feds shouldn't be involved in education). Despite all the debt shaming, it's just deficit neutral.
The AHCA cuts tens of millions off from healthcare to pay for tax cuts to the rich, while claiming it's about providing healthcare. This budget slashes the government to pay for more military, while claiming it's about the deficit.
posted by zachlipton at 12:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
The AHCA cuts tens of millions off from healthcare to pay for tax cuts to the rich, while claiming it's about providing healthcare. This budget slashes the government to pay for more military, while claiming it's about the deficit.
posted by zachlipton at 12:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
It's also infuriating from a process perspective. This document is just the discretionary programs. They say there will be a full budget this Spring that combines these cuts with their tax plan and changes to mandatory spending (read: Social Security and Medicare).
It's insane to brag about having a budget that doesn't increase the deficit when you outright say you're going to turn around and propose massive tax cuts in a few months.
posted by zachlipton at 12:40 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's insane to brag about having a budget that doesn't increase the deficit when you outright say you're going to turn around and propose massive tax cuts in a few months.
posted by zachlipton at 12:40 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
To pay for an increase in defense spending, a down payment on the border wall and school voucher programs, among other things, funding was cut from the discretionary budgets of other executive departments and agencies. The Environmental Protection Agency, the State Department and the Agriculture Department took the hardest hits. The proposal also completely defunded 19 agencies.What Trump Cut in His Budget, NZ Herald (16 March 2017).
posted by Sonny Jim at 1:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hope you all like government shutdowns. No way this is getting 60 votes in the Senate. Government funding for the current fiscal year runs out April 28 unless they work out a deal.
They need 60 votes in the Senate to increase military spending by $50billion, but do they need 60 votes to cut the domestic spending? I believe they can slash all the discretionary spending they want with 51 votes. Only entitlement cuts can be filibustered, as far as I am aware.
posted by Justinian at 1:11 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
They need 60 votes in the Senate to increase military spending by $50billion, but do they need 60 votes to cut the domestic spending? I believe they can slash all the discretionary spending they want with 51 votes. Only entitlement cuts can be filibustered, as far as I am aware.
posted by Justinian at 1:11 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Clinton faced the same racism problem as Obama, but on top of that she faced sexism, and that made a difference.
I don't understand what being said here.
posted by rdr at 1:14 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't understand what being said here.
posted by rdr at 1:14 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Still? It's only been since 2006; give it a while!
It was also a country prior to WWI, which is what I was thinking of. I should have said is a country again.
posted by threeturtles at 1:39 AM on March 16, 2017
It was also a country prior to WWI, which is what I was thinking of. I should have said is a country again.
posted by threeturtles at 1:39 AM on March 16, 2017
They need 60 votes in the Senate to increase military spending by $50billion, but do they need 60 votes to cut the domestic spending? I believe they can slash all the discretionary spending they want with 51 votes. Only entitlement cuts can be filibustered, as far as I am aware.
I'm far, far from a Senate procedure guru, but reconciliation is complicated and is a lot more than just a generic "this stuff can't be filibustered." You can only pass one reconciliation bill in a fiscal year, and that has to be setup in advance with a budget resolution. I believe they already used their shot for this fiscal year for healthcare, though I'm not completely sure what happens if the AHCA goes down in flames.
This article, and John Harwood usually knows what he's talking about, says they need 60 votes because this budget messes with the sequestration caps. Assuming that holds true, hope you all like government shutdowns.
And honestly, I'm not convinced this budget can get 50 votes either. A bunch of Republicans are likely to nope out of double-digit cuts to their favorite agencies.
posted by zachlipton at 1:43 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm far, far from a Senate procedure guru, but reconciliation is complicated and is a lot more than just a generic "this stuff can't be filibustered." You can only pass one reconciliation bill in a fiscal year, and that has to be setup in advance with a budget resolution. I believe they already used their shot for this fiscal year for healthcare, though I'm not completely sure what happens if the AHCA goes down in flames.
This article, and John Harwood usually knows what he's talking about, says they need 60 votes because this budget messes with the sequestration caps. Assuming that holds true, hope you all like government shutdowns.
And honestly, I'm not convinced this budget can get 50 votes either. A bunch of Republicans are likely to nope out of double-digit cuts to their favorite agencies.
posted by zachlipton at 1:43 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
This article, and John Harwood usually knows what he's talking about, says they need 60 votes because this budget messes with the sequestration caps. Assuming that holds true, hope you all like government shutdowns.
Right, which is why I said that trying to increase the military budget by $50+billion would run afoul of a filibuster, as they would filibuster any attempt to change the sequestration caps. But cutting spending wouldn't do that, and the Trumpers are evil enough I could see them gutting all the programs they don't like even if they can't push all that sweet sweet cash over to the military side.
The objection that only one reconciliation bill can be passed in a given year is correct. I'm assuming that AHCA flames out. If they manage to do something there with reconciliation then, yes, they can't do this slash-and-burn budget this year AFAIK.
posted by Justinian at 1:48 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Right, which is why I said that trying to increase the military budget by $50+billion would run afoul of a filibuster, as they would filibuster any attempt to change the sequestration caps. But cutting spending wouldn't do that, and the Trumpers are evil enough I could see them gutting all the programs they don't like even if they can't push all that sweet sweet cash over to the military side.
The objection that only one reconciliation bill can be passed in a given year is correct. I'm assuming that AHCA flames out. If they manage to do something there with reconciliation then, yes, they can't do this slash-and-burn budget this year AFAIK.
posted by Justinian at 1:48 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, it's always possible that Trump just ignores the sequestration caps and dares Congress to impeach him. They will not.
posted by Justinian at 1:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Is the administration actually required to cut agency expenditure via the Congressional budget rather than instruct their executive-controlled agency heads that they expect the agency to run x% under budget?
posted by jaduncan at 2:30 AM on March 16, 2017
posted by jaduncan at 2:30 AM on March 16, 2017
Nixon had the same idea, and it resulted in the Impoundment Control Act. Actually enforcing it though would require Congress to exercise oversight, which isn't really something they seem very interested in nowadays.
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Junk Insurance (aka what concessions is the AHCA giving to the insurance companies):
posted by foxfirefey at 2:45 AM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
We need to start calling this what it is: junk insurance. The "consumer choice" Ryancare proposes to return to the insurance market to was a type of insurance that was such a bad deal for the consumer, the state had to step in and ban it to protect innocent people from being scammed by it.As an extra bonus, the AHCA allows Medicaid expansion plans the states are offering to also be turned into junk insurance.
And make no mistake: this doesn't add that "choice" to the market. Without the subsection requiring insurers to offer quality plans, insurers will drop them drop them like hot rocks, thus this pretty much replaces all the real choices we presently have with that one sort of "choice" that is nobody's choice once they no longer have the wool pulled over their eyes....
posted by foxfirefey at 2:45 AM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
About the budget proposal: for what it is worth, this is how Trump "deals", and he thinks is a smart way to do business. He proposes something outrageous and everyone freaks out, and then after a while an agreement is reached. Lots of this happens in the construction/real estate world, all the time. It is unproductive and leads to dangerously bad mistakes and expensive repairs, but that is tradition. Come to think of it, given that a lot of Trump voters are relatively well off but with low educations, plenty of them must be contractors within construction and see this whole circus as totes normal.
I am no longer in that business, but I am still on the edge of it, and only a few weeks ago one of our business "partners" did a Trumpian stunt on us. My head of economy almost started crying, and said she couldn't believe how anyone could run a business when they were so dishonest and corrupt. I almost laughed out loud.
Thinking about it, the reasons this can keep on happening are twofold: one is that construction/real estate are genius for money laundering. So there will always be mob associates and what that entails.
Second (although this is makes the first possible), for most people, building and owning property is something one does few times in a life, even if you are a billionaire and/or the CEO of a global company. So you have no experience and no authority. People cannot recognize BS even if it's in their face, and they invest a great deal of their personal value in it.
If you buy a product regularly, you learn to appreciate it's quality, and you are able to discern between good an bad and make informed choices. Say you are a hospital, buying lab coats. You know what you are doing, you can make choices and deals with the lab coat manufacturers. If the same hospital needs a new building, they are at the mercy of their advisors, and those advisors don't necessarily know anything about prices and quality of concrete or flooring. So the contractors can just BS, they can make illegal deals, they can bribe the quantity surveyors etc. etc.
Trump comes from the seedy bottom of that world. When he says "we always do" he means that Trump co. always lands the deal and cashes in the money. It's not entirely true, but win some lose some is part of this philosophy as well.
The public is even worse than private investors in managing this whole mindset. Why are public buildings and infrastructure always so sad and shabby? Because the people who are supposed to manage their construction are often totally helpless in the face of a corrupt industry (and often they are also easily corruptible, because they are so ridiculously underpaid in comparison with their counterparts). Did I mention earlier here that I once was offered 1/4 of the construction costs as a bribe? And I was the architect, the public official who gave them my number must have gotten his own share. What would then be left for the actual construction?
posted by mumimor at 3:04 AM on March 16, 2017 [59 favorites]
I am no longer in that business, but I am still on the edge of it, and only a few weeks ago one of our business "partners" did a Trumpian stunt on us. My head of economy almost started crying, and said she couldn't believe how anyone could run a business when they were so dishonest and corrupt. I almost laughed out loud.
Thinking about it, the reasons this can keep on happening are twofold: one is that construction/real estate are genius for money laundering. So there will always be mob associates and what that entails.
Second (although this is makes the first possible), for most people, building and owning property is something one does few times in a life, even if you are a billionaire and/or the CEO of a global company. So you have no experience and no authority. People cannot recognize BS even if it's in their face, and they invest a great deal of their personal value in it.
If you buy a product regularly, you learn to appreciate it's quality, and you are able to discern between good an bad and make informed choices. Say you are a hospital, buying lab coats. You know what you are doing, you can make choices and deals with the lab coat manufacturers. If the same hospital needs a new building, they are at the mercy of their advisors, and those advisors don't necessarily know anything about prices and quality of concrete or flooring. So the contractors can just BS, they can make illegal deals, they can bribe the quantity surveyors etc. etc.
Trump comes from the seedy bottom of that world. When he says "we always do" he means that Trump co. always lands the deal and cashes in the money. It's not entirely true, but win some lose some is part of this philosophy as well.
The public is even worse than private investors in managing this whole mindset. Why are public buildings and infrastructure always so sad and shabby? Because the people who are supposed to manage their construction are often totally helpless in the face of a corrupt industry (and often they are also easily corruptible, because they are so ridiculously underpaid in comparison with their counterparts). Did I mention earlier here that I once was offered 1/4 of the construction costs as a bribe? And I was the architect, the public official who gave them my number must have gotten his own share. What would then be left for the actual construction?
posted by mumimor at 3:04 AM on March 16, 2017 [59 favorites]
CNN: Section 2 of new EO now blocked by a second federal court, this time in Maryland.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:13 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:13 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
mumimor: When he says "we always do" he means that Trump co. always lands the deal and cashes in the money. It's not entirely true, but win some lose some is part of this philosophy as well.
As well as lie some, and lie some more.
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
As well as lie some, and lie some more.
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Did I mention earlier here that I once was offered 1/4 of the construction costs as a bribe? And I was the architect, the public official who gave them my number must have gotten his own share. What would then be left for the actual construction?
Sounds like Nigeria, where everybody knows this is a fact of life re government projects.
posted by glasseyes at 3:40 AM on March 16, 2017
Sounds like Nigeria, where everybody knows this is a fact of life re government projects.
posted by glasseyes at 3:40 AM on March 16, 2017
Sounds like Nigeria, where everybody knows this is a fact of life re government projects.
Doesn't it? But it was here, in the least corrupt country in the world..
posted by mumimor at 3:44 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Doesn't it? But it was here, in the least corrupt country in the world..
posted by mumimor at 3:44 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not to abuse the edit function, the difference between countries is, whether this is admitted public knowledge or not. Not public knowledge in the sense of being written down anywhere but in the sense of everybody from officials to general public knowing this is something they are going to have to contend with, whether they are going to collude with it or struggle against it.
eta: yes, I thought I remembered you're based in Denmark.
posted by glasseyes at 3:44 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
eta: yes, I thought I remembered you're based in Denmark.
posted by glasseyes at 3:44 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nixon had the same idea, and it resulted in the Impoundment Control Act. Actually enforcing it though would require Congress to exercise oversight, which isn't really something they seem very interested in nowadays.
On looking, I also wonder if they could avoid enforcement (on a very bad faith interpretation indeed, but still) by claiming that the WH released the money to the agency and then the agency head was just told to spend as efficiently as possible while fulfilling all legal duties.
posted by jaduncan at 3:45 AM on March 16, 2017
On looking, I also wonder if they could avoid enforcement (on a very bad faith interpretation indeed, but still) by claiming that the WH released the money to the agency and then the agency head was just told to spend as efficiently as possible while fulfilling all legal duties.
posted by jaduncan at 3:45 AM on March 16, 2017
I am burning with curiosity to know if the right wing narrative of liberals having "so much hatred" started with...
IIRC, this phrasing was preceded by the notion, dating from the GWB years, that liberals are "so angry."
That's when I noticed it too, and it was no accident. I remember hearing Hannity, Medved, and others starting to say it out of nowhere after 9/11 any time somebody would say anything negative about the Bush administration.
Pretty clever device, really—"hate" is a viscerally negative word that implies a lack of reason by definition. Casting one's opposition as "hating" is a pretty tidy shortcut to considering what opponents are actually saying. Much more effective than "My opponent is well-intentioned, with nothing but concern for the well-being of the country and love in their heart, but they're wrong."
Visible anger in a person can look like hate (or its caricature, at least), so there's your "hateful libtard with a sign yelling at the nice President" photo op too.
posted by Rykey at 3:58 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
IIRC, this phrasing was preceded by the notion, dating from the GWB years, that liberals are "so angry."
That's when I noticed it too, and it was no accident. I remember hearing Hannity, Medved, and others starting to say it out of nowhere after 9/11 any time somebody would say anything negative about the Bush administration.
Pretty clever device, really—"hate" is a viscerally negative word that implies a lack of reason by definition. Casting one's opposition as "hating" is a pretty tidy shortcut to considering what opponents are actually saying. Much more effective than "My opponent is well-intentioned, with nothing but concern for the well-being of the country and love in their heart, but they're wrong."
Visible anger in a person can look like hate (or its caricature, at least), so there's your "hateful libtard with a sign yelling at the nice President" photo op too.
posted by Rykey at 3:58 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Regarding the effort to paint liberals as angry/hateful, in a way Hannity, Limbaugh et al were right: apart from the GOP base, if you weren't furious, you weren't paying attention. And for many good reasons, but they flipped justified righteous indignation into a negative. Again.
posted by carmicha at 4:14 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by carmicha at 4:14 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Visible anger in a person can look like hate (or its caricature, at least), so there's your "hateful libtard with a sign yelling at the nice President" photo op too.
They also, crucially, hate Real Americans like you and your family, viewer. Let's cut off their welfare from our taxes since they hate us so much, then they'll have to get a job, cut their hair and stop going in the women's bathrooms like the degenerates they are. [etc]
posted by jaduncan at 4:15 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
They also, crucially, hate Real Americans like you and your family, viewer. Let's cut off their welfare from our taxes since they hate us so much, then they'll have to get a job, cut their hair and stop going in the women's bathrooms like the degenerates they are. [etc]
posted by jaduncan at 4:15 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't think the House and Senate will even consider the President's budget. They'll present their own budget resolution -- which will be terrible but maybe sane -- and go from there. I'm very skeptical that this Congress will actually move appropriations bills, though, and expect that the CR will be extended. I'm not convinced that the President or his advisors know how the budget and appropriations process on the Hill works. The President has veto power, of course, but that's about it. I'm sure he thinks he can roll Congress, but look at the AHCA...
posted by wintermind at 4:23 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by wintermind at 4:23 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Bear in mind that our very own G Dubz The Talking Prezdint was responsible for the modern implementation of "evil" as standard political discourse. Which was helpful.
posted by petebest at 4:32 AM on March 16, 2017
posted by petebest at 4:32 AM on March 16, 2017
Why are public buildings and infrastructure always so sad and shabby?
Another reason is performative efforts by ignorant elected officials designed to demonstrate that they're saving "taxpayer dollars" and not giving anything nice (aka "coddling") to those awful bureaucrats. Never mind that they could attract better employees and reduce turnover by providing a pleasant work environment. Notable exception: the palaces built for law enforcement and sometimes fire departments.
This problem goes to ludicrous extremes sometimes. My favorite example involved a legislator who spotted some state employee playing solitaire and became incensed about how these lazy mofos were stealing time from the public. He decided to force through a requirement that future computers be purchased without solitaire, which, as an aside, was originally provided to help people become proficient with mice. Anyway, it was hugely expensive thanks to the cost of splitting up the Microsoft bundles, effectively making every desktop a custom build.
posted by carmicha at 4:34 AM on March 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
Another reason is performative efforts by ignorant elected officials designed to demonstrate that they're saving "taxpayer dollars" and not giving anything nice (aka "coddling") to those awful bureaucrats. Never mind that they could attract better employees and reduce turnover by providing a pleasant work environment. Notable exception: the palaces built for law enforcement and sometimes fire departments.
This problem goes to ludicrous extremes sometimes. My favorite example involved a legislator who spotted some state employee playing solitaire and became incensed about how these lazy mofos were stealing time from the public. He decided to force through a requirement that future computers be purchased without solitaire, which, as an aside, was originally provided to help people become proficient with mice. Anyway, it was hugely expensive thanks to the cost of splitting up the Microsoft bundles, effectively making every desktop a custom build.
posted by carmicha at 4:34 AM on March 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
Sorry if this has been discussed already (MeFi threads, job, sleep: pick two), but is it possible that, having been caught with their thumbs up their asses when Trump won unexpectedly, the best the Rs could come up with re Obamacare was to propose something so bad (in the form of bullshit budget earmarks and add-ons) that it would provoke the Dems into shutting down the government in April? Because it seems like blaming them for messing everything up (as per usual) is a lot easier than replacing an already Republican health care policy.
I realize a shutdown itself, fucked as it would be, wouldn't actually affect the implementation of the AHCA in the long run, but blaming the Dems for the problems they themselves created has never bothered the Rs before, and Lord knows it would pass FOX News peer review.
I'd really, really like this game of "But would they really be that stupid?" to be over now.
posted by Rykey at 4:48 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I realize a shutdown itself, fucked as it would be, wouldn't actually affect the implementation of the AHCA in the long run, but blaming the Dems for the problems they themselves created has never bothered the Rs before, and Lord knows it would pass FOX News peer review.
I'd really, really like this game of "But would they really be that stupid?" to be over now.
posted by Rykey at 4:48 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Bear in mind that our very own G Dubz The Talking Prezdint was responsible for the modern implementation of "evil" as standard political discourse. Which was helpful.
Even more importantly, next time someone links a "reasonable" quote from David Frum, remember it was Frum (Bush's former speechwriter) who coined the phrase, "axis of evil."
posted by Room 641-A at 5:19 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Even more importantly, next time someone links a "reasonable" quote from David Frum, remember it was Frum (Bush's former speechwriter) who coined the phrase, "axis of evil."
posted by Room 641-A at 5:19 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Holy shit that budget.
More bombs, less art!
More guns, less parks!
Also what the fuck, cutting Americorps? That's one of those great programs that makes a difference in the lives of the down and out and disadvantaged. I mean I always knew it but I guess it turns out that the forgotten man and woman were those with over a million in assets
posted by dis_integration at 5:21 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
More bombs, less art!
More guns, less parks!
Also what the fuck, cutting Americorps? That's one of those great programs that makes a difference in the lives of the down and out and disadvantaged. I mean I always knew it but I guess it turns out that the forgotten man and woman were those with over a million in assets
posted by dis_integration at 5:21 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Clinton faced the same racism problem as Obama, but on top of that she faced sexism, and that made a difference.
I don't understand what being said here.
Not my comment, but I'm assuming they mean that as the nominee of the Democratic Party, the party of brown people and Obama, she basically got the same hate from, and lost the votes of, the racist, white nationalist right like Obama did or would have. Plus she got hate from and lost the votes of misogynists.
posted by chris24 at 5:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't understand what being said here.
Not my comment, but I'm assuming they mean that as the nominee of the Democratic Party, the party of brown people and Obama, she basically got the same hate from, and lost the votes of, the racist, white nationalist right like Obama did or would have. Plus she got hate from and lost the votes of misogynists.
posted by chris24 at 5:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
All is not roses at the Palace
“Mattis told the White House either Mira goes, or he walks. They blinked.”
Mira is Mira Ricardel ex Boeing one of a large defence industry interest in the transition team.
posted by adamvasco at 5:27 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
“Mattis told the White House either Mira goes, or he walks. They blinked.”
Mira is Mira Ricardel ex Boeing one of a large defence industry interest in the transition team.
posted by adamvasco at 5:27 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
lol "Boycott Hawaii" is trending on twitter at the moment and some of the responses are wonderful:
Jaime @jlynneg24posted by INFJ at 5:27 AM on March 16, 2017 [60 favorites]
In Hawaii I'll get sun, surf, the beach, nature - but no Trump supporters. Book me on the next flight
So my husband works for the regional planning commission, and his job is currently partially supported by grants from the Economic Development Administration (on the chopping block), and they do a lot of administering things like Community Development Block Grants (on the chopping block) and probably a bunch of other things on the list.
They've shifted him on to some contract work out to a couple of local communities so if the things actually do get cut he has his job, with full hours, for now. But if this stuff actually gets passed, long term, the entire commission is in trouble.
posted by damayanti at 5:27 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
They've shifted him on to some contract work out to a couple of local communities so if the things actually do get cut he has his job, with full hours, for now. But if this stuff actually gets passed, long term, the entire commission is in trouble.
posted by damayanti at 5:27 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm fascinated by Mattis. Does he really have the ability to tell Trump to fuck himself and that is somehow respected? Why? Is Steve Bannon afraid of the consequences if Trump fires Mattis? And does Mattis really think that maybe tinkering with the margins of this shit show is worth it for the chance to maybe thwart some nuclear attack by the U.S.?
I mean reading the article, Trump maybe "blinked" but the Trumpist is elsewhere in the administration, IDK, maybe it's better she's fucking up Commerce than Defense.
It'd be nice if civilization survives this, because if the printing presses still operate I'm going to read the shit out of autopsies of this administration.
posted by angrycat at 5:35 AM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
I mean reading the article, Trump maybe "blinked" but the Trumpist is elsewhere in the administration, IDK, maybe it's better she's fucking up Commerce than Defense.
It'd be nice if civilization survives this, because if the printing presses still operate I'm going to read the shit out of autopsies of this administration.
posted by angrycat at 5:35 AM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Why? Is Steve Bannon afraid of the consequences if Trump fires Mattis?
It would be pretty indicative that your administration is a dumpster fire if you axe your Secretary of Defense over minor personnel issues 2 months into a 4 year term.
posted by PenDevil at 5:39 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
It would be pretty indicative that your administration is a dumpster fire if you axe your Secretary of Defense over minor personnel issues 2 months into a 4 year term.
posted by PenDevil at 5:39 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also, count me in favor of a gov't shutdown. For a while yesterday I was staring at the front page of the NYT, which had side-by-side articles re: massive cuts to the EPA and massive die-offs among the coral reefs around Australia. I mean I don't know if EPA cuts are going to impact coral reef research, but I just want to take Pruitt's face and just somehow force him to read those articles, and then come up with some sort of cogent explanation of why the EPA isn't important when our planet is fucking dying, just one explanation that doesn't dismiss science as fake Gods or whatever I don't understand how that man thinks.
posted by angrycat at 5:44 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 5:44 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nazi-Allied Group Claims Top Trump Aide Sebastian Gorka As Sworn Member
Sebastian Gorka, President Trump’s top counter-terrorism adviser, is a formal member of a Hungarian far-right group that is listed by the U.S. State Department as having been “under the direction of the Nazi Government of Germany” during World War II, leaders of the organization have told the Forward.
Gorka’s membership in the organization — if these Vitézi Rend leaders are correct, and if Gorka did not disclose this when he entered the United States as an immigrant — could have implications for his immigration status. The State Department’s Foreign Affairs Manual specifies that members of the Vitézi Rend “are presumed to be inadmissible” to the country under the Immigration and Nationality Act.
posted by PenDevil at 5:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
Sebastian Gorka, President Trump’s top counter-terrorism adviser, is a formal member of a Hungarian far-right group that is listed by the U.S. State Department as having been “under the direction of the Nazi Government of Germany” during World War II, leaders of the organization have told the Forward.
Gorka’s membership in the organization — if these Vitézi Rend leaders are correct, and if Gorka did not disclose this when he entered the United States as an immigrant — could have implications for his immigration status. The State Department’s Foreign Affairs Manual specifies that members of the Vitézi Rend “are presumed to be inadmissible” to the country under the Immigration and Nationality Act.
posted by PenDevil at 5:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
I had to stop reading the breakdown of Trumps Budget. It made me feel nauseated.
posted by INFJ at 5:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by INFJ at 5:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
It occurs to me that people maybe don't remember the 1970s, what with rivers catching on fire, Love Canal, and so on?
My Grandma lived in Evanston then, and we'd go visit. I remember stern parental warnings not to approach or enter the water of Lake Michigan. There were dead fish washed up on the beach, with flies around them. #MAGA
posted by thelonius at 5:50 AM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
My Grandma lived in Evanston then, and we'd go visit. I remember stern parental warnings not to approach or enter the water of Lake Michigan. There were dead fish washed up on the beach, with flies around them. #MAGA
posted by thelonius at 5:50 AM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'm fascinated by Mattis. Does he really have the ability to tell Trump to fuck himself and that is somehow respected? Why?
Mattis is pretty much the only person in the entire administration who has a reasonable political reputation (given that Acosta hasn't been confirmed yet). Mattis also has the personal capital to be able to hurt Trump with the military in general induce joy or complete apoplexy in the Marines.
posted by jaduncan at 5:54 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mattis is pretty much the only person in the entire administration who has a reasonable political reputation (given that Acosta hasn't been confirmed yet). Mattis also has the personal capital to be able to hurt Trump with the military in general induce joy or complete apoplexy in the Marines.
posted by jaduncan at 5:54 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't think there's a "nice" way to say it, so: the problem is that people are stupid in general, and stupid particularly about preventative measures. There's a vast number of people who are ready to believe that environmental protection measures are actually not needed because "duh, we don't have any problems!" -- they literally cannot conceive that the reason we don't have these problems is the measures they want to eliminate.
It's the same logic as anti-vaxxers, and the same root cause: selfish people who think because an ongoing solution to a problem is possibly mildly inconvenient, it's probably therefore not even really necessary because c'mon who gets mumps anyways and ...
posted by tocts at 5:55 AM on March 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
It's the same logic as anti-vaxxers, and the same root cause: selfish people who think because an ongoing solution to a problem is possibly mildly inconvenient, it's probably therefore not even really necessary because c'mon who gets mumps anyways and ...
posted by tocts at 5:55 AM on March 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
Yeah, I can't even start down the rabbit hole of that budget. I live in a city that is economically reliant on 2 R1 universities and several smaller institutions of higher learning. Federal research dollars are largely the difference between here and Detroit. I know the entire point of this stuff is "fuck the liberals" and hey, congratulations, we're feeling pretty fucked! You can stop now.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:55 AM on March 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:55 AM on March 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
I'm fascinated by Mattis. Does he really have the ability to tell Trump to fuck himself and that is somehow respected? Why?
No, Mattis doesn't have the ability to tell Trump to fuck himself. But he knows one thing and is another.
The thing he knows is that Trump really doesn't care (and/or have the capacity to care) about anything outside the room he's in at the moment. So Mattis knows to stick around until Trump has made his decision and confirmed it to Bannon and Kushner et al (McMaster has probably learned that lesson now, as well as "Don't ask Trump to make a decision on Friday when Jared isn't around").
The thing he is is highly experienced in an intensely political and executive environment. In the senior ranks of the White House, only Rnc Prbs has similar experience. Bannon and Kushner and suchlike have maybe read the SparkNotes of The Art of War; Mattis has read the works that Sun Tzu read.
Mattis doesn't have the ability to tell Trump to fuck himself. But he knows how to massage Trump into making the decision Mattis wants him to make, at the time and location of Mattis's choosing, in the manner that Mattis believes will be best.
posted by Etrigan at 6:14 AM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
No, Mattis doesn't have the ability to tell Trump to fuck himself. But he knows one thing and is another.
The thing he knows is that Trump really doesn't care (and/or have the capacity to care) about anything outside the room he's in at the moment. So Mattis knows to stick around until Trump has made his decision and confirmed it to Bannon and Kushner et al (McMaster has probably learned that lesson now, as well as "Don't ask Trump to make a decision on Friday when Jared isn't around").
The thing he is is highly experienced in an intensely political and executive environment. In the senior ranks of the White House, only Rnc Prbs has similar experience. Bannon and Kushner and suchlike have maybe read the SparkNotes of The Art of War; Mattis has read the works that Sun Tzu read.
Mattis doesn't have the ability to tell Trump to fuck himself. But he knows how to massage Trump into making the decision Mattis wants him to make, at the time and location of Mattis's choosing, in the manner that Mattis believes will be best.
posted by Etrigan at 6:14 AM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Good news from the Netherlands election, where the centre-right party looks set for 31 seats and the far-right 20 out of 150 or so, which means there'll be no problem assembling a coalition that freezes out the wingnuts. Here's hoping Brexit/Trump has put the fear of Beelzebub into the European electorate but good.
posted by Devonian at 6:19 AM on March 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 6:19 AM on March 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
Reagan famously described the USSR as an "evil empire." This is probably what Bush, Jr. was echoing. And, although I'm not an expert, I would bet that evil came into the vocabulary of a few more presidents whether talking about Indian attacks or Huns, etc.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:20 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:20 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Daniel Dale with a new (to me) question on the travel ban - its been 45 days since the first attempt at a 90 day ban so that better screening processes could be created. How far along are they? Why does there still need to be a 90 day ban for that work?
(And yes, these questions are rhetorical in the sense that this was never about actually doing any work on screening, but potentially meaningful from a legal argument perspective, I think)
posted by nubs at 6:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
(And yes, these questions are rhetorical in the sense that this was never about actually doing any work on screening, but potentially meaningful from a legal argument perspective, I think)
posted by nubs at 6:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
well, the damage from the budget has already started for science. I review grants for the Israeli-US Binational program - it is a joint program with NSF and the Israeli NSF for to fund collaborations. I just received an email indicating they are not funding any submitted proposals and are not accepting any further proposals due to budget concerns.
I fucking hate donald trump.
posted by bluesky43 at 6:27 AM on March 16, 2017 [38 favorites]
I fucking hate donald trump.
posted by bluesky43 at 6:27 AM on March 16, 2017 [38 favorites]
So, to clarify the budget process, here's how it's supposed to go:
1. The President submits a budget proposal. Trump is late on this, but that happens when the new President is a different party.
2. The President's budget is referred to the House and Senate Budget Committees, who completely ignore it and write their own budget proposals.
3. Congress passes the budget resolution(s), going to conference committee if the House and Senate versions differ. These are concurrent resolutions that do not require the President's signature.
5. The House Appropriations Committee writes 12 appropriations bills for the different parts of the government. These are actual bills that go through Congress. I think that as long as they stay under the budget resolution limits (and the sequester limits, which are also federal law) they are protected against filibuster. The protection from the filibuster is one of the key points of the budget resolution.
6. The President signs the bills, and money can be spent.
7. Very very often, not all 12 bills get through in time, and Congress cobbles together a "continuing resolution" to go ahead and temporarily appropriate money to keep things going.
8. Also, something something reconciliation, to reduce the deficit. Sorry, can't really explain this part very well.
To sum up: the President's budget proposal does not matter.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:30 AM on March 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
1. The President submits a budget proposal. Trump is late on this, but that happens when the new President is a different party.
2. The President's budget is referred to the House and Senate Budget Committees, who completely ignore it and write their own budget proposals.
3. Congress passes the budget resolution(s), going to conference committee if the House and Senate versions differ. These are concurrent resolutions that do not require the President's signature.
5. The House Appropriations Committee writes 12 appropriations bills for the different parts of the government. These are actual bills that go through Congress. I think that as long as they stay under the budget resolution limits (and the sequester limits, which are also federal law) they are protected against filibuster. The protection from the filibuster is one of the key points of the budget resolution.
6. The President signs the bills, and money can be spent.
7. Very very often, not all 12 bills get through in time, and Congress cobbles together a "continuing resolution" to go ahead and temporarily appropriate money to keep things going.
8. Also, something something reconciliation, to reduce the deficit. Sorry, can't really explain this part very well.
To sum up: the President's budget proposal does not matter.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:30 AM on March 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
Just yesterday Slate ran an article about Mattis' lack of influence in the administration. Though he's prevailed in disagreements with Trump a few times, it certainly hasn't been the rule, and he's still working with a skeleton crew with no clear path to filling crucial lower level positions (though surely getting rid of Ricardel is a step forward).
Trump himself also seems to have a deep-seated belief that generals who weren't involved with the Obama administration agree with him about foreign policy issues, probably imagining that they are all as unhinged as his bosom pal Flynn. It seems like an unsustainable belief, but Trump manages to sustain all kinds of counterfactual beliefs. There's sure to be fireworks whenever Trump loses interest in his failing domestic policy and decides he wants to follow through with his stupid fantasies about destroying ISIS and taking the oil.
posted by vathek at 6:32 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump himself also seems to have a deep-seated belief that generals who weren't involved with the Obama administration agree with him about foreign policy issues, probably imagining that they are all as unhinged as his bosom pal Flynn. It seems like an unsustainable belief, but Trump manages to sustain all kinds of counterfactual beliefs. There's sure to be fireworks whenever Trump loses interest in his failing domestic policy and decides he wants to follow through with his stupid fantasies about destroying ISIS and taking the oil.
posted by vathek at 6:32 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Note on #6: the appropriations bills become federal laws; the government is required by law to spend that money. The President cannot prevent that money from being spent.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:33 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:33 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Donald Trump's Punitive, Bannonesque "Fourth Turning" Budget
These aren't sharp cuts that are likely to be explained away as trims of waste, fraud, and abuse. These cuts are meant to be punitive and meant to look punitive. The Trumpers aren't Reaganites insisting that they're just trimming the fat. These folks want you to think that they're cutting into muscle. [...]posted by tonycpsu at 6:33 AM on March 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
I think this is a Fourth Turning budget. I think it's meant to cause disruption and pain. I think it's informed by the belief that it's good to knock the populace around, because that's an inevitable step before we reach the Promised Land.
Of course, the disruptors will be just fine -- the Trumps with their Russian and Chinese capital, Bannon with a nice egg from his Goldman Sachs earnings and his Seinfeld residuals and his former $750,000 Breitbart salary. The apocalypse is for the rest of us.
Gorka’s membership in the organization — if these Vitézi Rend leaders are correct, and if Gorka did not disclose this when he entered the United States as an immigrant — could have implications for his immigration status. The State Department’s Foreign Affairs Manual specifies that members of the Vitézi Rend “are presumed to be inadmissible” to the country under the Immigration and Nationality Act.
This is not correct. The manual states that "any alien who participated in the persecution of any person because of race, religion, national origin, or political opinion during the period from March 23, 1933, to May 8, 1945, under the direction of or in association with the Nazi Government of Germany or an allied or occupied government" is ineligible for a visa. It goes on to mention certain "criminal organizations", members of which are "presumed", though not necessarily, ineligible for a visa. These are the leadership corps of the Nazi Party, the Gestapo, the SD, and the SS. Later, the manual says, "In the case of possibly inadmissible aliens from countries allied with or occupied by Nazi Germany during the relevant time period (see 9 FAM 302.7-4(B)(5) and (6)), the same inquiries specified in paragraph a above should be pursued concerning the aliens activities and his or her possible association with organizations involved in persecutions. Many, but not all, such organizations are listed in 9 FAM 302.7-4(B)(7)." The Vitézi Rend only appear in that list.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 6:35 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is not correct. The manual states that "any alien who participated in the persecution of any person because of race, religion, national origin, or political opinion during the period from March 23, 1933, to May 8, 1945, under the direction of or in association with the Nazi Government of Germany or an allied or occupied government" is ineligible for a visa. It goes on to mention certain "criminal organizations", members of which are "presumed", though not necessarily, ineligible for a visa. These are the leadership corps of the Nazi Party, the Gestapo, the SD, and the SS. Later, the manual says, "In the case of possibly inadmissible aliens from countries allied with or occupied by Nazi Germany during the relevant time period (see 9 FAM 302.7-4(B)(5) and (6)), the same inquiries specified in paragraph a above should be pursued concerning the aliens activities and his or her possible association with organizations involved in persecutions. Many, but not all, such organizations are listed in 9 FAM 302.7-4(B)(7)." The Vitézi Rend only appear in that list.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 6:35 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Our prime minister went on a fucking date with Ivanka Trump.
Fuck you for normalizing this shit, Trudeau.
OK, so I thought about this all night, actually, and wanted to be really angry. And then I was like, Trudeau brought Ivanka Trump to see a show about the way that his country treated American refugees who had nothing but the clothes on their backs... I sort of appreciate that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [43 favorites]
Fuck you for normalizing this shit, Trudeau.
OK, so I thought about this all night, actually, and wanted to be really angry. And then I was like, Trudeau brought Ivanka Trump to see a show about the way that his country treated American refugees who had nothing but the clothes on their backs... I sort of appreciate that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [43 favorites]
It occurs to me that people maybe don't remember the 1970s, what with rivers catching on fire, Love Canal, and so on?
Between the Trump administration, and the Republican governments at the state level, I kind of expect a string of similar incidents in the coming decades, but people won't necessarily make the immediate connection to the republican deregulation.
posted by drezdn at 6:52 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Between the Trump administration, and the Republican governments at the state level, I kind of expect a string of similar incidents in the coming decades, but people won't necessarily make the immediate connection to the republican deregulation.
posted by drezdn at 6:52 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
To sum up: the President's budget proposal does not matter.
Doesn't matter, unless the Republicans are on board with the cuts. And I'll bet a lot of them are. I wonder whether we're going about the resistance to them the right way. We shouldn't be yelling about the environment, and the arts, and science, and how important it all is - that's just liberal outrage and it's red meat to them. People who would vote for those cuts don't care. There isn't a "but" we can say that will resonate except for "but jobs," and they don't think government-funded jobs count anymore, so we don't even have that.
I think the right response is, "Is this guy a complete moron?" Everyone agrees that Trump doesn't read, isn't curious, and doesn't even know that he doesn't know. "Protect America from his stupidity" is something Republicans might be able to get behind without losing face. It's not about the environment, or the arts, or consumer protections. It's about how we set up a system that works but has some flaws, and he's decided to burn everything down rather than read a book about what the issues are. And everyday Americans - Republicans and Democrats - are not willing to suffer for it. We like the stuff he wants to cut. We like to breathe clean air and drink clean water and not get ripped off and maybe see a play or go to a museum. That's part of what makes America great. How can he not get that? Is he a complete moron?
This is not how a government run by thinking people budgets. This is amateur hour, and the US deserves better. That's what we should be fighting. Not the individual talking points.
posted by Mchelly at 6:56 AM on March 16, 2017 [33 favorites]
Doesn't matter, unless the Republicans are on board with the cuts. And I'll bet a lot of them are. I wonder whether we're going about the resistance to them the right way. We shouldn't be yelling about the environment, and the arts, and science, and how important it all is - that's just liberal outrage and it's red meat to them. People who would vote for those cuts don't care. There isn't a "but" we can say that will resonate except for "but jobs," and they don't think government-funded jobs count anymore, so we don't even have that.
I think the right response is, "Is this guy a complete moron?" Everyone agrees that Trump doesn't read, isn't curious, and doesn't even know that he doesn't know. "Protect America from his stupidity" is something Republicans might be able to get behind without losing face. It's not about the environment, or the arts, or consumer protections. It's about how we set up a system that works but has some flaws, and he's decided to burn everything down rather than read a book about what the issues are. And everyday Americans - Republicans and Democrats - are not willing to suffer for it. We like the stuff he wants to cut. We like to breathe clean air and drink clean water and not get ripped off and maybe see a play or go to a museum. That's part of what makes America great. How can he not get that? Is he a complete moron?
This is not how a government run by thinking people budgets. This is amateur hour, and the US deserves better. That's what we should be fighting. Not the individual talking points.
posted by Mchelly at 6:56 AM on March 16, 2017 [33 favorites]
A 20% cut for the NIH!
Almost all of the NIH budget goes to research grants. A 20% cut is going to be, in real numbers, about $6 billion dollars. An R01 (standard health research) grant is about $500,000. Junior faculty loss in the 20,000 person range. Research in the U.S. is going to be devastated by this for generations.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:58 AM on March 16, 2017 [53 favorites]
Almost all of the NIH budget goes to research grants. A 20% cut is going to be, in real numbers, about $6 billion dollars. An R01 (standard health research) grant is about $500,000. Junior faculty loss in the 20,000 person range. Research in the U.S. is going to be devastated by this for generations.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:58 AM on March 16, 2017 [53 favorites]
I hope NIH Bear mauls 45 for his poor budgetary decisions.
I don't begrudge your sad obsessions, okay?
posted by pxe2000 at 7:00 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't begrudge your sad obsessions, okay?
posted by pxe2000 at 7:00 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
McDonald’s Tweets at Trump: ‘Disgusting Excuse of a President’: At 9:15 a.m., the fast-food titan’s corporate Twitter account tweeted at President Donald Trump, telling him, “You are actually a disgusting excuse of a President and we would love to have @BarackObama back, also you have tiny hands.” The post was deleted within 20 minutes, but not before the @McDonaldsCorp account pinned it to the top of its profile page and received several thousand likes and retweets
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:03 AM on March 16, 2017 [104 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:03 AM on March 16, 2017 [104 favorites]
This is not how a government run by thinking people budgets.
The most surprising thing to me was that it wasn't just a flat 20 percent off of everything that wasn't a gun. Someone actually did some work on this thing.
posted by Etrigan at 7:04 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
The most surprising thing to me was that it wasn't just a flat 20 percent off of everything that wasn't a gun. Someone actually did some work on this thing.
posted by Etrigan at 7:04 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
McDonald’s Tweets at Trump: ‘Disgusting Excuse of a President
I'm lovin' it
posted by zakur at 7:05 AM on March 16, 2017 [83 favorites]
I'm lovin' it
posted by zakur at 7:05 AM on March 16, 2017 [83 favorites]
I can happily trade Hardee's biscuits for McGriddles. Well, my brain can. My heart, waistline, blood pressure, and cholesterol levels may feel differently down the line.
posted by teleri025 at 7:09 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by teleri025 at 7:09 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Of course, the disruptors will be just fine -- the Trumps with their Russian and Chinese capital, Bannon with a nice egg from his Goldman Sachs earnings and his Seinfeld residuals and his former $750,000 Breitbart salary. The apocalypse is for the rest of us.I understand where this is coming from, and that's fine, but surely the Trumps' capital doesn't just stem from "Russian and Chinese" (that is, "alien") sources, just as Bannon isn't just a creature of Goldman Sachs and Breitbart (that is, safely "other"). It's not like those in the Trump administration were all infiltrated in by parachute from a low-flying Il-76 on the evening of 7 November 2016. Their money and social networks have always placed them right at the heart of American business and politics—Democrat as well as Republican, in Trump's case. The budget cuts that Trump just proposed (as unlikely as they are ever to be enacted) are a bundle of Republican talking points and fixations going back at least to the Reagan administration. They are all, in their own way, as American as apple pie: creatures of American business, the American entertainment industry, the Ivy League, and the seamier bits of the Republican Party. As Corey Robin put it recently, we must continue to "make the connection between Trump and the Republican Party. The GOP tied themselves to this man; do not allow them to slip out of the noose they designed for themselves. I don’t simply mean they embraced Trump. I mean that he comes out of 50 years of their politics, and we have to make sure everyone remembers that."
posted by Sonny Jim at 7:09 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm going with "But Jobs" because they may not care about government jobs in theory, but they care a whole lot more when it's their own district or state whose unemployment numbers are going to go up.
I've got three post-cards all written up and ready to mail here, and they all say BUT THESE VERY SPECIFIC JOBS IN YOUR DISTRICT/STATE. They say BUT MY, YOUR CONSTITUENT'S, JOB. They say BUT THE ECONOMY OF THIS VERY SPECIFIC PLACE OF WHICH YOU ARE THE ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:11 AM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
I've got three post-cards all written up and ready to mail here, and they all say BUT THESE VERY SPECIFIC JOBS IN YOUR DISTRICT/STATE. They say BUT MY, YOUR CONSTITUENT'S, JOB. They say BUT THE ECONOMY OF THIS VERY SPECIFIC PLACE OF WHICH YOU ARE THE ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:11 AM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Also, I'm calling it "Trump's job-killing budget."
Feel free to take that and run with it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:11 AM on March 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
Feel free to take that and run with it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:11 AM on March 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
Dr. R.R. Wilson's testimony to Congress regarding authorization of funding for construction of Fermilab's first particle accelerator, April 1969:
SEN. PASTORE: Is there anything connected in the hopes of this accelerator that in any way involves the security of the country?posted by Rhaomi at 7:14 AM on March 16, 2017 [129 favorites]
DR. WILSON: No, sir; I do not believe so.
SEN. PASTORE: Nothing at all?
DR. WILSON: Nothing at all.
SEN. PASTORE: It has no value in that respect?
DR. WILSON: It only has to do with the respect with which we regard one another, the dignity of men, our love of culture. It has to do with those things. It has nothing to do with the military. I am sorry.
SEN. PASTORE: Don't be sorry for it.
DR. WILSON: I am not, but I cannot in honesty say it has any such application.
SEN. PASTORE: Is there anything here that projects us in a position of being competitive with the Russians, with regard to this race?
DR. WILSON: Only from a long-range point of view, of a developing technology. Otherwise, it has to do with: Are we good painters, good sculptors, great poets? I mean all the things that we really venerate and honor in our country and are patriotic about. In that sense, this new knowledge has all to do with honor and country but it has nothing to do directly with defending our country except to help make it worth defending.
Having almost finished Alone In Berlin by Hans Fallada (ne Rudolf Ditzen - quite a life story the guy had), the postcard comments are a little heartening. Get them out now before doing so becomes a capital offence
posted by Myeral at 7:14 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Myeral at 7:14 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
This Forbes article gives some perspective on Trump's 2005 taxes. The IRS publishes a summary of the top 400 adjusted gross income earners (not names, although Trump would not have been among them) and the taxes they paid.
"In 2005, the IRS 400 had an average adjusted gross income of $214 million and paid income tax averaging $39 million each, for an effective tax rate of 18.23%. But of that $39 million tax tab, only $1.4 million, on average, was due to the AMT. By contrast, the AMT made up $31.3 million of Trump’s total taxes. Without the AMT, his taxes would have been a paltry $5.3 million and the tax rate on his income just 3.5%, instead of 24%."
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:20 AM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
"In 2005, the IRS 400 had an average adjusted gross income of $214 million and paid income tax averaging $39 million each, for an effective tax rate of 18.23%. But of that $39 million tax tab, only $1.4 million, on average, was due to the AMT. By contrast, the AMT made up $31.3 million of Trump’s total taxes. Without the AMT, his taxes would have been a paltry $5.3 million and the tax rate on his income just 3.5%, instead of 24%."
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:20 AM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
The administration proposes to eliminate the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP). This is the program that helps poor folks pay their energy bills. Basically, it directly pays the utility when the customer can't afford to. The total federal LIHEAP funding in 2015 was $3.35 billion nationally.
I work for a natural gas utility in Minnesota. To qualify for LIHEAP assistance in Minnesota, a household has to have income at or below 50% of the state median income or 110% of the federal poverty level. Winter in Minnesota is a serious business, and customers tend to use a fair bit of natural gas in the winter (it is both the primary and most economical form of residential heat for most Minnesota households).
In 2015 (a relatively warm year), payments to my company from LIHEAP - for the benefit of low income customers - were over $10,000,000. That's a single year, and is the lowest amount of LIHEAP payments we received over the five years 2011-2015.
Note that LIHEAP payments only address costs the customer owes the utility and do nothing to address the efficiency of a customer's home, which might help keep future energy costs down. That's through the Weatherization Assistance Program, which the administration also proposes to end.
It is not clear to me where those ten million dollars are supposed to come from. The options are basically that customers find the money somewhere else (food? medicine? clothes?) or we shut off their gas - which simply means it becomes a bad debt expense, and we roll it into our next rate case in order to collect it from all our other customers.
So those options boil down to "screw the poor customers" or "freeze the poor customers and screw all the rest of the customers as well." The company (and its shareholders) are not going to be screwed, except to some minor degree if it takes slightly longer to recover our costs.
And no one is going to benefit. The money saved in taxes is simply reflected in increased costs to customers. We screw a whole bunch of people with no benefit to anyone else.
posted by nickmark at 7:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [90 favorites]
I work for a natural gas utility in Minnesota. To qualify for LIHEAP assistance in Minnesota, a household has to have income at or below 50% of the state median income or 110% of the federal poverty level. Winter in Minnesota is a serious business, and customers tend to use a fair bit of natural gas in the winter (it is both the primary and most economical form of residential heat for most Minnesota households).
In 2015 (a relatively warm year), payments to my company from LIHEAP - for the benefit of low income customers - were over $10,000,000. That's a single year, and is the lowest amount of LIHEAP payments we received over the five years 2011-2015.
Note that LIHEAP payments only address costs the customer owes the utility and do nothing to address the efficiency of a customer's home, which might help keep future energy costs down. That's through the Weatherization Assistance Program, which the administration also proposes to end.
It is not clear to me where those ten million dollars are supposed to come from. The options are basically that customers find the money somewhere else (food? medicine? clothes?) or we shut off their gas - which simply means it becomes a bad debt expense, and we roll it into our next rate case in order to collect it from all our other customers.
So those options boil down to "screw the poor customers" or "freeze the poor customers and screw all the rest of the customers as well." The company (and its shareholders) are not going to be screwed, except to some minor degree if it takes slightly longer to recover our costs.
And no one is going to benefit. The money saved in taxes is simply reflected in increased costs to customers. We screw a whole bunch of people with no benefit to anyone else.
posted by nickmark at 7:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [90 favorites]
We screw a whole bunch of people with no benefit to anyone else.
This is going to be replacing "E Pluribus Unum" any day now.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 AM on March 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
This is going to be replacing "E Pluribus Unum" any day now.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 AM on March 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
via the NYT's Glenn Thrush: Senior aide to Hill GOP leadership on Trump/budget: 'its a joke...we've learned not to listen to anything he says or does. We're on our own'
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:29 AM on March 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:29 AM on March 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Neil Gorsuch Helped Defend Disputed Bush-Era Terror Policies
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:35 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:35 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
continue to "make the connection between Trump and the Republican Party. The GOP tied themselves to this man; do not allow them to slip out of the noose they designed for themselves
I see this a lot, and understand it's really tempting. But do you understand that tying everyone to Trump means they are more, not less, willing to do what he wants because they see no alternative?
Denazification worked in Germany because it allowed people who had not actually been complicit in war crimes to reintegrate into society, and even still hold political office. By allowing Germans to focus on the time and the actions, Germany now has far less of this activity than we do.
Do you want revenge, or do you want this poison gone? If the latter, there needs to be a place people can safely walk back to.
posted by corb at 7:38 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
I see this a lot, and understand it's really tempting. But do you understand that tying everyone to Trump means they are more, not less, willing to do what he wants because they see no alternative?
Denazification worked in Germany because it allowed people who had not actually been complicit in war crimes to reintegrate into society, and even still hold political office. By allowing Germans to focus on the time and the actions, Germany now has far less of this activity than we do.
Do you want revenge, or do you want this poison gone? If the latter, there needs to be a place people can safely walk back to.
posted by corb at 7:38 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
nickmark, that is a wonderfully detailed & informative comment about LIHEAP. If you haven't already slapped it on stationery & sent it to every lawmaker in the country, please please do!
posted by Westringia F. at 7:40 AM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Westringia F. at 7:40 AM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Budget letter from Trump to Paul Ryan
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Do you want revenge, or do you want this poison gone? If the latter, there needs to be a place people can safely walk back to.
Fuck 'em. They had the chance. Primary them if you want, but #nevertrump tried to provide that safe place, and it failed. McCain and Graham claim to be looking for that place, but McCain votes with Trump 96.4% of the time, and Graham is at 100%. Trump isn't up for re-election for three years and eight months -- 468 members of Congress are up in one year and eight months. Hang it on them. Make them actually take a step before we start talking about where they get to safely walk back to.
To use your other example, we didn't start denazification until Hitler was gone.
posted by Etrigan at 7:44 AM on March 16, 2017 [67 favorites]
Fuck 'em. They had the chance. Primary them if you want, but #nevertrump tried to provide that safe place, and it failed. McCain and Graham claim to be looking for that place, but McCain votes with Trump 96.4% of the time, and Graham is at 100%. Trump isn't up for re-election for three years and eight months -- 468 members of Congress are up in one year and eight months. Hang it on them. Make them actually take a step before we start talking about where they get to safely walk back to.
To use your other example, we didn't start denazification until Hitler was gone.
posted by Etrigan at 7:44 AM on March 16, 2017 [67 favorites]
Budget letter from Trump Bannon to Paul Ryan
posted by zakur at 7:45 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zakur at 7:45 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Corb, if individuals want to leave the Republican party because they can't live with what it's become, that's awesome and I'll welcome them with open arms. But that's no reason to take the heat off the people in actual power, for two reasons:
1) The party as an institution is already 100% behind Trump. The reintegration of non-war-criminal Nazis into German political society didn't extend to preserving the Nazi Party as a party.
2) So are the current crop of elected Republicans. Talking about what would alienate the John McCains of the world from turning against Trump is a pointless exercise because they will never turn.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:47 AM on March 16, 2017 [43 favorites]
1) The party as an institution is already 100% behind Trump. The reintegration of non-war-criminal Nazis into German political society didn't extend to preserving the Nazi Party as a party.
2) So are the current crop of elected Republicans. Talking about what would alienate the John McCains of the world from turning against Trump is a pointless exercise because they will never turn.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:47 AM on March 16, 2017 [43 favorites]
"Do you want revenge, or do you want this poison gone? If the latter, there needs to be a place people can safely walk back to."
I haven't been the least bit conciliatory with anyone responsible for putting the spawn of Mammon in the Whitehouse. But more than them, I fear the chaos that will be the realignment of the parties. We have a necessarily 2 party system, and it's not likely anyone will be in a position to point and laugh at the Republicans for breaking only their half of our see-saw. After a couple election cycles, we might not be happy with the distribution of strange bedfellows that rebalanced it.
posted by klarck at 7:47 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I haven't been the least bit conciliatory with anyone responsible for putting the spawn of Mammon in the Whitehouse. But more than them, I fear the chaos that will be the realignment of the parties. We have a necessarily 2 party system, and it's not likely anyone will be in a position to point and laugh at the Republicans for breaking only their half of our see-saw. After a couple election cycles, we might not be happy with the distribution of strange bedfellows that rebalanced it.
posted by klarck at 7:47 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Additional notes on Trump's 2005 tax form. (pdf here)
He checked the box saying he wanted $3 given to the Presidential Election Campaign fund.
It says he paid $22,400,000 was paid with the request for extension to file (line 69).
It says he paid $13,291,993 in estimated tax payments. (line 65).
I'm not an expert in this field, but if you greatly underestimate your final bill, isn't there a penalty?
Also, his estimate says that he was expecting to pay about a third of the taxes that he did pay. One conclusion: this was not a typical year, this was a windfall year.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
He checked the box saying he wanted $3 given to the Presidential Election Campaign fund.
It says he paid $22,400,000 was paid with the request for extension to file (line 69).
It says he paid $13,291,993 in estimated tax payments. (line 65).
I'm not an expert in this field, but if you greatly underestimate your final bill, isn't there a penalty?
Also, his estimate says that he was expecting to pay about a third of the taxes that he did pay. One conclusion: this was not a typical year, this was a windfall year.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
And just in case all youse scientists were thinking "if my research gets cut, there's always teaching," the Trumpian budget has this to offer:
posted by Westringia F. at 7:52 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
EDUCATION DEPARTMENTHere's a longer story about the Education proposal [WaPo] in case you want to nauseate yourself with DeVos' wankfest.
The Education Department faces a 14 percent cut under the Trump administration budget, which would downsize or eliminate a raft of grants, including for teacher training, afterschool programs, and aid to low-income and minority college students. The cuts would be coupled with a historic investment — $1.4 billion — in charter schools, private schools and other school-choice initiatives.
x Cuts $3.7 billion in grants for teacher training, after-school and summer programs, and aid programs to first-generation and low-income students
x "Significantly" reduces federal work-study aid to college students
+ Increases charter school funding by $168 million
+ Creates new private-school choice program with $250 million
+ Spends $1 billion to encourage districts to allow federal dollars meant for low-income students to follow those students to the public school of their choice
posted by Westringia F. at 7:52 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
I see this a lot, and understand it's really tempting. But do you understand that tying everyone to Trump means they are more, not less, willing to do what he wants because they see no alternative?
Actually, nothing we do is going to make them more willing to do what Trump wants, because they are already at the maximum level of willingness to do what Trump wants.
Denazification worked in Germany because it allowed people who had not actually been complicit in war crimes to reintegrate into society....
I don't think this is entirely in good faith. Denazification worked in Germany because lots of people no longer wanted to be Nazis. Many had never wanted to be Nazis in the first place and felt forced into it to avoid reprisals, potentially including their own murder. If Trump disappeared tomorrow, there's not a single Republican in the government who would go "Whew, glad that's over, time to become a reasonable grownup and try to help people". They would still be trying to starve the poor and steal people's health care and ensure that large discriminatory systems remain in place and make sure that their supporters have access to guns with which to threaten their opponents.
If we said right now "Hey, come over to our side and all is forgiven, no consequences of any kind for any of the things you've done" not a single Republican would come. These are not people who were coerced into these positions. These people pursued these positions of their own free will, and they were happy to get them. They're in power now. They don't believe they've done anything wrong.
posted by IAmUnaware at 7:54 AM on March 16, 2017 [96 favorites]
Actually, nothing we do is going to make them more willing to do what Trump wants, because they are already at the maximum level of willingness to do what Trump wants.
Denazification worked in Germany because it allowed people who had not actually been complicit in war crimes to reintegrate into society....
I don't think this is entirely in good faith. Denazification worked in Germany because lots of people no longer wanted to be Nazis. Many had never wanted to be Nazis in the first place and felt forced into it to avoid reprisals, potentially including their own murder. If Trump disappeared tomorrow, there's not a single Republican in the government who would go "Whew, glad that's over, time to become a reasonable grownup and try to help people". They would still be trying to starve the poor and steal people's health care and ensure that large discriminatory systems remain in place and make sure that their supporters have access to guns with which to threaten their opponents.
If we said right now "Hey, come over to our side and all is forgiven, no consequences of any kind for any of the things you've done" not a single Republican would come. These are not people who were coerced into these positions. These people pursued these positions of their own free will, and they were happy to get them. They're in power now. They don't believe they've done anything wrong.
posted by IAmUnaware at 7:54 AM on March 16, 2017 [96 favorites]
> I think the right response is, "Is this guy a complete moron?"
If you ask anyone who still supports him at this point if Trump is a complete moron, it will almost certainly be perceived as an Act of Liberal Aggression.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:55 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
If you ask anyone who still supports him at this point if Trump is a complete moron, it will almost certainly be perceived as an Act of Liberal Aggression.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:55 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Do you want revenge, or do you want this poison gone? If the latter, there needs to be a place people can safely walk back to.
I want a Democratic majority unified government that makes no concessions to the Republican Party currently attempting to destroy our way of life.
And I don't care about the feelings of Republican collaborators.
We can achieve this solely though increasing voter turnout. We don't have to compromise with one single Republican voter, at all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:56 AM on March 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
I want a Democratic majority unified government that makes no concessions to the Republican Party currently attempting to destroy our way of life.
And I don't care about the feelings of Republican collaborators.
We can achieve this solely though increasing voter turnout. We don't have to compromise with one single Republican voter, at all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:56 AM on March 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
I'm not an expert in this field, but if you greatly underestimate your final bill, isn't there a penalty?
There is a penalty notation at the bottom of page two of the return: "penalty not included: $68,783" (if you aren't requesting a waiver or alternate method of calculation, you can have the IRS calculate the penalty for you and send you a bill).
posted by melissasaurus at 7:57 AM on March 16, 2017
There is a penalty notation at the bottom of page two of the return: "penalty not included: $68,783" (if you aren't requesting a waiver or alternate method of calculation, you can have the IRS calculate the penalty for you and send you a bill).
posted by melissasaurus at 7:57 AM on March 16, 2017
To use your other example, we didn't start denazification until Hitler was gone.
I agree - but the only way to force this Hitler out currently, short of assassination, is for the legislative body controlled by Republicans to do so. And for them to do so, they need to feel like it will be safe to do so.
For an example: Paul Ryan is goddamn dead to me. He is morally culpable for putting this fucker in the White House. It's not morally right to let him off the hook. But it's tactically sound, because if there's one thing we have learned, it's that Paul Ryan does what is good for Paul Ryan. And Trump is doing more damage every day. We can't wait until 2018, not that 2018 will get an impeachment majority anyway if Republicans aren't on board. Look at where we are, and it's only been /two months/.
posted by corb at 8:03 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
I agree - but the only way to force this Hitler out currently, short of assassination, is for the legislative body controlled by Republicans to do so. And for them to do so, they need to feel like it will be safe to do so.
For an example: Paul Ryan is goddamn dead to me. He is morally culpable for putting this fucker in the White House. It's not morally right to let him off the hook. But it's tactically sound, because if there's one thing we have learned, it's that Paul Ryan does what is good for Paul Ryan. And Trump is doing more damage every day. We can't wait until 2018, not that 2018 will get an impeachment majority anyway if Republicans aren't on board. Look at where we are, and it's only been /two months/.
posted by corb at 8:03 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
dis_integration: Also what the fuck, cutting Americorps? That's one of those great programs that makes a difference in the lives of the down and out and disadvantaged.
Here's the thing with Trump and Republicans - by and large, they're very short-sighted. Sort of penny wise and pound foolish, except not so much penny wise. They don't believe that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, or a stitch in time saves nine.
In other words, they don't believe that an investment in something positive and life-affirming now can save any money in the future, or perhaps because the prevention smells like "socialism" to them, they reject it without a second thought.
Cut health care spending, ignoring that preventative care is cheaper and more efficient than increased use of emergency rooms
Cut foreign relations support, ignoring that it's faster and cheaper than going to war (plus, blowing up stuff is super manly)
Cut science funding because what we have today works well enough, ignoring the fact that we'll be out-innovated (and lose jobs and economic opportunities) to other countries
Similarly, cut education, and get mad that jobs look abroad for better trained workers
Cut social support (or in conservative terms, "entitlements"), ignoring that cycles of poverty can start with crippling medical or education debt
Cut women's health and safe sex education and funding, ignoring that this significantly cuts abortion rates
This is why Democrats are better for deficits, debts and personal income than Republicans and why abortion rates fall faster under Democrats.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:03 AM on March 16, 2017 [69 favorites]
Here's the thing with Trump and Republicans - by and large, they're very short-sighted. Sort of penny wise and pound foolish, except not so much penny wise. They don't believe that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, or a stitch in time saves nine.
In other words, they don't believe that an investment in something positive and life-affirming now can save any money in the future, or perhaps because the prevention smells like "socialism" to them, they reject it without a second thought.
Cut health care spending, ignoring that preventative care is cheaper and more efficient than increased use of emergency rooms
Cut foreign relations support, ignoring that it's faster and cheaper than going to war (plus, blowing up stuff is super manly)
Cut science funding because what we have today works well enough, ignoring the fact that we'll be out-innovated (and lose jobs and economic opportunities) to other countries
Similarly, cut education, and get mad that jobs look abroad for better trained workers
Cut social support (or in conservative terms, "entitlements"), ignoring that cycles of poverty can start with crippling medical or education debt
Cut women's health and safe sex education and funding, ignoring that this significantly cuts abortion rates
This is why Democrats are better for deficits, debts and personal income than Republicans and why abortion rates fall faster under Democrats.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:03 AM on March 16, 2017 [69 favorites]
So are we back to "wiretapping" meaning wiretapping?
posted by Artw at 8:04 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:04 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
No one changes until the pain of change is clearly less than the pain staying the same. This is especially true in groups, where there is an additional incentive to punish defectors.
If we want a new, saner GOP - and we really really do - there have to be clear consequences that tilt the scale against our worst political impulses. Open support must be an albatross and attempting to quietly ride out the crazy not worth the risk.
posted by BS Artisan at 8:05 AM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
If we want a new, saner GOP - and we really really do - there have to be clear consequences that tilt the scale against our worst political impulses. Open support must be an albatross and attempting to quietly ride out the crazy not worth the risk.
posted by BS Artisan at 8:05 AM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
I don't think this is entirely in good faith. Denazification worked in Germany because lots of people no longer wanted to be Nazis.
They prosecuted relatively few people for war crimes, even among the SS. Many judges who had been complicit in passing death sentences etc. were allowed to stay on. I think the dilemma was, if you really thoroughly de-Nazify, there'd be no one left to be a civil servant or cop or judge.
posted by thelonius at 8:06 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
They prosecuted relatively few people for war crimes, even among the SS. Many judges who had been complicit in passing death sentences etc. were allowed to stay on. I think the dilemma was, if you really thoroughly de-Nazify, there'd be no one left to be a civil servant or cop or judge.
posted by thelonius at 8:06 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Even if we accept Trump's "premise" that quotation marks mean you can't be taken literally
Trump, in the manner of a depressing number of idiots, uses inverted commas for "emphasis" [sic] rather than to quote or airquote something.
posted by jaduncan at 8:08 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump, in the manner of a depressing number of idiots, uses inverted commas for "emphasis" [sic] rather than to quote or airquote something.
posted by jaduncan at 8:08 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
if you really thoroughly de-Nazify, there'd be no one left to be a civil servant or cop or judge.
See also de-Baathification.
posted by nickmark at 8:08 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
See also de-Baathification.
posted by nickmark at 8:08 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Paul Ryan does what is good for Paul Ryan
And once Paul Ryan does what is good for Paul Ryan by stabbing his orange frenemy in the back, he will go right back to attempting to enact his Galt's Gulch fantasies.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:08 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
And once Paul Ryan does what is good for Paul Ryan by stabbing his orange frenemy in the back, he will go right back to attempting to enact his Galt's Gulch fantasies.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:08 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
So are we back to "wiretapping" meaning wiretapping?
I believe it is intended to cover everything on the spectrum from (someone actually physically coming up to the wire and tapping it with their finger or, possibly, something like a pencil or a stick) at one end to (using a person's microwave and possibly their toaster and maybe even their fillings to listen to their conversations) at the other.
posted by nubs at 8:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
I believe it is intended to cover everything on the spectrum from (someone actually physically coming up to the wire and tapping it with their finger or, possibly, something like a pencil or a stick) at one end to (using a person's microwave and possibly their toaster and maybe even their fillings to listen to their conversations) at the other.
posted by nubs at 8:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Related news from around the world: a likely reason that Spain, despite similar or worse circumstances to their EU neighbors, have no significant far-right movement is that they were inoculated by nearly 40 years of a repressive, right-wing dictator. Hopefully this is our booster shot that keeps us dictator-free in the future.
Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte Has A New Adversary — The Church
posted by filthy light thief at 8:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [25 favorites]
Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte Has A New Adversary — The Church
"The culture of death is what we are fighting," Pabillo says. "The culture where the belief is that death is the solution to problems."The Catholic Church is vocally against the extrajudicial killings in Duterte's war on drugs, and his push to bring back the death penalty.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [25 favorites]
NBC: Perez Begins Overhaul of DNC:
“To guide his transition process, Perez on Wednesday tapped a wide range of Democrats for a transition advisory committee that will work over the next month or so to provide advice and recommendations. The 30 members of the committee were selected to represent and highlight the party’s broad coalition, from former Alaska Sen. Mark Begich to Black Lives Matters activist Deray McKesson to former South Carolina Gov. and DNC Chair Don Fowler to undocumented immigrant activist Astrid Silva.”posted by Chrysostom at 8:14 AM on March 16, 2017 [29 favorites]
“And in a nod to Bernie Sanders allies, the committee includes freshman Rep. Pramila Jayapal, who won an election last year in Washington state with the backing of the Vermont senator.”
I think the dilemma was, if you really thoroughly de-Nazify, there'd be no one left to be a civil servant or cop or judge.
(You know I'm an anarchist because I'm ok with this result as long as there are no more fucking Nazis hanging around.)
posted by tobascodagama at 8:18 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
(You know I'm an anarchist because I'm ok with this result as long as there are no more fucking Nazis hanging around.)
posted by tobascodagama at 8:18 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Guardian: 'A disgusting excuse of a President': McDonald's tweets at Trump
A McDonald’s company Twitter account went rogue on Thursday, tweeting President Trump to call him “a disgusting excuse of a President”.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:23 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
A now-deleted tweet from the verified @McDonaldsCorp account said: “@RealDonaldTrump You are actually a disgusting excuse of a President and we would love to have @BarackObama back, also you have tiny hands.”
GOP 2017: What's the rule of law done for you lately, anyway?
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
It would be pretty indicative that your administration is a dumpster fire if you axe your Secretary of Defense over minor personnel issues 2 months into a 4 year term.
As opposed tooooo . . .
posted by petebest at 8:25 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
As opposed tooooo . . .
posted by petebest at 8:25 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
A McDonald’s company Twitter account went rogue on Thursday, tweeting President Trump to call him “a disgusting excuse of a President”.
Oh man, where's Trump going to send Chris Christie to pick up lunch now?
posted by nubs at 8:25 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Oh man, where's Trump going to send Chris Christie to pick up lunch now?
posted by nubs at 8:25 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Currently, the American rule of law is as follows: 1) Everything is legal if you don't get caught and punished 2) Nothing is legal if those in power decide to go after you.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:28 AM on March 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:28 AM on March 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
I see this a lot, and understand it's really tempting. But do you understand that tying everyone to Trump means they are more, not less, willing to do what he wants because they see no alternative? ... Do you want revenge, or do you want this poison gone? If the latter, there needs to be a place people can safely walk back to.Corb, I don't mean to pile on here, but ... the Clinton campaign took this approach this back in '16, and it turns out that you could fit #NeverTrump into the back of a single minivan, and what's more, there'd still be room for a barbecue, a couple of suitcases, and the family dog.
posted by Sonny Jim at 8:31 AM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
The Trump administration dons a tinfoil hat
It only took 1500 comments, but I see what you did there!
posted by Room 641-A at 8:31 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
It only took 1500 comments, but I see what you did there!
posted by Room 641-A at 8:31 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
See also de-Baathification.
Right! Since you had to join the B'aath party to do pretty much any professional job, they had no one to run power plants etc, no one who knew what they were doing.
posted by thelonius at 8:32 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Right! Since you had to join the B'aath party to do pretty much any professional job, they had no one to run power plants etc, no one who knew what they were doing.
posted by thelonius at 8:32 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Huckabee 2011: Obama's Executive Orders are mark of a "classic-dictator"
Huckabee 2017: Trump should act like a dictator
posted by zakur at 8:33 AM on March 16, 2017 [51 favorites]
Huckabee 2017: Trump should act like a dictator
posted by zakur at 8:33 AM on March 16, 2017 [51 favorites]
Julie Andrews and Emma Walton Hamilton: Rescue the arts from the budget chopping block: There was the student who sat silently at the back of a playwriting class for the better part of the semester, ski hat pulled low over his forehead, arms folded defiantly across his chest. Who would have thought he would ultimately write an award-winning political satire that was selected for production, and go on to start a student-written and edited section of his local newspaper, before attending journalism school?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:39 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:39 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
I hope NIH Bear mauls 45 for his poor budgetary decisions.
A few recent tweets from NIH Bear:
Increases to military, veterans, and paramilitary organizations. It's almost like @realDonaldtoddler is buying military loyalty for a coup.
A huge number of humans WANT to live in an apocalyptic hellscape of violence, filth, and hate. They are called "Republicans". @GOP
All I am saying is the British have burned the White House down before.
Remember. Legislators are like regular people. They respond to the most recent freak out. Keep the pressure on or they revert to bullshit.
posted by Dashy at 8:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
A few recent tweets from NIH Bear:
Increases to military, veterans, and paramilitary organizations. It's almost like @realDonaldtoddler is buying military loyalty for a coup.
A huge number of humans WANT to live in an apocalyptic hellscape of violence, filth, and hate. They are called "Republicans". @GOP
All I am saying is the British have burned the White House down before.
Remember. Legislators are like regular people. They respond to the most recent freak out. Keep the pressure on or they revert to bullshit.
posted by Dashy at 8:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
Sessions also calls marijuana a "life-wrecking dependency...that’s only slightly less awful" than heroin.
This is no more true of marijuana, in particular, than any other potentially useful, clinically therapeutic medicine or recreational intoxicants. Even in its least virtuous uses as an entertainment or diversion, it's demonstrably so much less harmful to long term health than more socially acceptable intoxicants like liquor, it's practically a form of reality denial to single out marijuana as a substance for blame. Even government studies have found clinical benefits from the use of marijuana for managing the emotional stress of PTSD and stress disorder. In my own life, I can characterize it this way: marijuana isn't a cure but it can be a useful tool in the kit when circumstances are so difficult and painful you need to block the pain somewhat to control and manage even more harmful self destructive and suicidal impulses. The emotional pain blunting effects of medical marijuana can help you keep pain from overwhelming you so much all at once you might impulsively take more seriously self-destructive steps to try to escape or assert control.
It's unconscionable and perverse to deny our troops and other sufferers access to these treatments after giving them stress disorders in the course of their duties or working lives, due to nothing more than archaic and unscientific social stigma originally advanced by industrial interests (Hurst) for reasons of increasing their monopoly power.
posted by saulgoodman at 8:52 AM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
This is no more true of marijuana, in particular, than any other potentially useful, clinically therapeutic medicine or recreational intoxicants. Even in its least virtuous uses as an entertainment or diversion, it's demonstrably so much less harmful to long term health than more socially acceptable intoxicants like liquor, it's practically a form of reality denial to single out marijuana as a substance for blame. Even government studies have found clinical benefits from the use of marijuana for managing the emotional stress of PTSD and stress disorder. In my own life, I can characterize it this way: marijuana isn't a cure but it can be a useful tool in the kit when circumstances are so difficult and painful you need to block the pain somewhat to control and manage even more harmful self destructive and suicidal impulses. The emotional pain blunting effects of medical marijuana can help you keep pain from overwhelming you so much all at once you might impulsively take more seriously self-destructive steps to try to escape or assert control.
It's unconscionable and perverse to deny our troops and other sufferers access to these treatments after giving them stress disorders in the course of their duties or working lives, due to nothing more than archaic and unscientific social stigma originally advanced by industrial interests (Hurst) for reasons of increasing their monopoly power.
posted by saulgoodman at 8:52 AM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
On the topic of Trump/Bannon budget proposal, here's a separate discussion on the proposed NASA budget.
Summary - Cuts are not as extreme as with other agencies, but those cuts specifically target climate change missions and completely eliminates the NASA Education Office (which runs camps and enrichment programs, provides internships and scholarships for young scientists, and oversees efforts to support women and underrepresented minorities in science, technology, engineering and math, or STEM, fields).
posted by zakur at 8:54 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Summary - Cuts are not as extreme as with other agencies, but those cuts specifically target climate change missions and completely eliminates the NASA Education Office (which runs camps and enrichment programs, provides internships and scholarships for young scientists, and oversees efforts to support women and underrepresented minorities in science, technology, engineering and math, or STEM, fields).
posted by zakur at 8:54 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Denazification worked in Germany because it allowed people who had not actually been complicit in war crimes to reintegrate into society, and even still hold political office. By allowing Germans to focus on the time and the actions, Germany now has far less of this activity than we do.
This assumes a lot of things that i don't think are actually true. De-Nazification wasn't thorough; lots of them stayed in government, and Germany didn't start dealing culturally with their role in WW2 until the next generation came of age and asked questions.
And Germany has fewer Nazis now because they made it illegal.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:04 AM on March 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
This assumes a lot of things that i don't think are actually true. De-Nazification wasn't thorough; lots of them stayed in government, and Germany didn't start dealing culturally with their role in WW2 until the next generation came of age and asked questions.
And Germany has fewer Nazis now because they made it illegal.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:04 AM on March 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
Josh Marshall on the amazing continuing journey of the GOP Failure Katamari.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:06 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 9:06 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am burning with curiosity to know if the right wing narrative of liberals having "so much hatred" started with...
I don't know about the narrative. But to be fair -- and speaking only for myself -- right now this particular liberal really does have so much hatred.
posted by Killick at 9:07 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't know about the narrative. But to be fair -- and speaking only for myself -- right now this particular liberal really does have so much hatred.
posted by Killick at 9:07 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
So ... we want to get Americans back to work, but not in the sciences and technology. Got it. So where are the good jobs, again? Let's talk to someone in a major multinational company about that:
Investing in Education Is Smart Business The U.S. economy needs a STEM-educated workforce -- by Deirdre Connelly, president of North American Pharmaceuticals at GlaxoSmithKline | U.S. News & World Report, Aug. 29, 2011
But maybe if GSK and other major pharma companies get a break from push back from U.S. pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs), which administer drug benefits and negotiate rebates for employers and health plans, maybe those pharma companies will invest in education directly?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ... oooh, that was funny.
Prescription Drug Prices in America Are Rising Like No Other Industry (Time, July 14, 2016)
Yup, totally invested in improving the labor pool.
Why Drug Costs Will Keep Rising in 2017 (Fortune, Dec. 19, 2016)
posted by filthy light thief at 9:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Investing in Education Is Smart Business The U.S. economy needs a STEM-educated workforce -- by Deirdre Connelly, president of North American Pharmaceuticals at GlaxoSmithKline | U.S. News & World Report, Aug. 29, 2011
But maybe if GSK and other major pharma companies get a break from push back from U.S. pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs), which administer drug benefits and negotiate rebates for employers and health plans, maybe those pharma companies will invest in education directly?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ... oooh, that was funny.
Prescription Drug Prices in America Are Rising Like No Other Industry (Time, July 14, 2016)
But because medications are literally essential—patients could die without them—people have little choice but to pay up no matter what the price.
...
Meanwhile, a new report from Americans for Tax Fairness says that Gilead Sciences, the world's sixth most valuable pharmaceutical company, has been gouging consumers, raking in billions in profits, and dodging U.S. taxes—all based on medications that were developed by taxpayer dollars.
Yup, totally invested in improving the labor pool.
Why Drug Costs Will Keep Rising in 2017 (Fortune, Dec. 19, 2016)
when drug prices go up, everyone who touches the drug, including the drug makers, pharmacy benefit managers, pharmacies, and in some cases, providers, all make more money. Additionally, patients continue to be desensitized to super expensive drugs through copay coupons and out of pocket maximums well below the price of their drugs. And we can’t imagine any new legislation being passed to allow re-importation of drugs from countries with lower prices or to enable Medicare to negotiate prices./minor derail
posted by filthy light thief at 9:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Josh Marshall on the amazing continuing journey of the GOP Failure Katamari.
Trump really doesn't get how this works, does he? "If the bill sucks he won't sign it". Let's assume that he's actually serious. Like it gets to his desk and he goes "what the hell is this shit?" and sends it back covered in red ink embarrassing the hell out of the Republican congress.
How to win friends and influence people, right?
posted by Talez at 9:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump really doesn't get how this works, does he? "If the bill sucks he won't sign it". Let's assume that he's actually serious. Like it gets to his desk and he goes "what the hell is this shit?" and sends it back covered in red ink embarrassing the hell out of the Republican congress.
How to win friends and influence people, right?
posted by Talez at 9:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Do you want revenge, or do you want this poison gone? If the latter, there needs to be a place people can safely walk back to.
We can achieve this solely though increasing voter turnout. We don't have to compromise with one single Republican voter, at all.
We have to both influence the legislation being made today and go all out at the polls. Too many Americans with critical needs, as well as important ideas and incontrovertible truths like global warning, are being harmed by the current spate of EOs, bills and appointees; we must do all we can to fight them, including helping rational GOP folks find their way towards the light and not fear it. That said, fear of the ballot box is one arrow from the tactical quiver we can aim right now in the service of rejecting these awful policies and their implementation. That threat has strength if, and only if, we work hard throughout the ramp-up to 2018, starting now.
We must see both the forest and the trees simultaneously.
posted by carmicha at 9:13 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
We can achieve this solely though increasing voter turnout. We don't have to compromise with one single Republican voter, at all.
We have to both influence the legislation being made today and go all out at the polls. Too many Americans with critical needs, as well as important ideas and incontrovertible truths like global warning, are being harmed by the current spate of EOs, bills and appointees; we must do all we can to fight them, including helping rational GOP folks find their way towards the light and not fear it. That said, fear of the ballot box is one arrow from the tactical quiver we can aim right now in the service of rejecting these awful policies and their implementation. That threat has strength if, and only if, we work hard throughout the ramp-up to 2018, starting now.
We must see both the forest and the trees simultaneously.
posted by carmicha at 9:13 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
The very second the GOP has more to lose by standing by the orange disease than by stabbing him in the eye, the knives will come out. Only it will be some Tarantino knives, just crazy sharp excessive fuckery, because these people will have been *waiting*. I bet one of them brings a mace.
And I hope the Dems just smile and wait until everyone is bloody and tired, and then they go collect their scalps.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:17 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
And I hope the Dems just smile and wait until everyone is bloody and tired, and then they go collect their scalps.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:17 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Has prenzident wotzishame always used the royal 'we' or is this something new?
I noticed this earlier this month, when His Majesty thrillingly recounted the tale of the deliberation over which baseball cap would adorn His Royal Cranium for his aircraft carrier speech.
posted by contraption at 9:17 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I noticed this earlier this month, when His Majesty thrillingly recounted the tale of the deliberation over which baseball cap would adorn His Royal Cranium for his aircraft carrier speech.
posted by contraption at 9:17 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
[R]ight now this particular liberal really does have so much hatred.
Yeah, me too, and I think it's because there are so few Republicans operating in any way close to resembling good faith, let alone making evidence-based arguments/decisions; it's all about power and I've got mine (or enjoy pretending I do) so fuck you. I've often thought Republicans were just plain wrong, for a host of reasons, but with few exceptions (cough, Cheney, cough) I never thought so many were flat out evil.
posted by carmicha at 9:19 AM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
Yeah, me too, and I think it's because there are so few Republicans operating in any way close to resembling good faith, let alone making evidence-based arguments/decisions; it's all about power and I've got mine (or enjoy pretending I do) so fuck you. I've often thought Republicans were just plain wrong, for a host of reasons, but with few exceptions (cough, Cheney, cough) I never thought so many were flat out evil.
posted by carmicha at 9:19 AM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
The thing that mystifies me is that Trump is behaving exactly as you'd expect a c-level executive to behave if they were a force of pure id. You would think that at least some republicans, what with their boot-licking adoration of business, would know some of them and realize that the traits that tend to develop with that kind of power are terrible for government purposes. Although I realise that they want government to fail, so maybe they know it already?
Because for the most part the c-level people are absolute lords of the earth and can tell everyone no and humiliate people and trample about like bulls with no real constraint. Trump is behaving like he is the CEO of our country and congress is at best divisional presidents. It doesn't matter if they hate him - they still work for him and if they want to get paid they'll do what he says.
The astonishing thing is that it works as well as it does in business, but saying that is at best praising with faint damns.
posted by winna at 9:21 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Because for the most part the c-level people are absolute lords of the earth and can tell everyone no and humiliate people and trample about like bulls with no real constraint. Trump is behaving like he is the CEO of our country and congress is at best divisional presidents. It doesn't matter if they hate him - they still work for him and if they want to get paid they'll do what he says.
The astonishing thing is that it works as well as it does in business, but saying that is at best praising with faint damns.
posted by winna at 9:21 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Even the military budget is stupid. Pushing to increase the number or carriers and ships is really dumb at a time when those carriers and ships are now completely vulnerable to missile swarms and silent subs. You might as well just hand $20 billion to your enemy for them light on fire for you rather than park a sitting duck aircraft carrier within range of their anti-ship missiles or subs.
Pretty much every allied Navy with subs has 'sunk' a US aircraft carrier in war games.
This includes Canada using a barely functional discarded royal navy piece of crap.
The key component of US military force projection is even vulnerable to Canadians and you're budgeting to build more of them.
posted by srboisvert at 9:23 AM on March 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
Pretty much every allied Navy with subs has 'sunk' a US aircraft carrier in war games.
This includes Canada using a barely functional discarded royal navy piece of crap.
The key component of US military force projection is even vulnerable to Canadians and you're budgeting to build more of them.
posted by srboisvert at 9:23 AM on March 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
it turns out that you could fit #NeverTrump into the back of a single minivan, and what's more, there'd still be room for a barbecue, a couple of suitcases, and the family dog.
To be fair, it's not like the dog has to take up space inside the minivan.
posted by littlegreen at 9:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
To be fair, it's not like the dog has to take up space inside the minivan.
posted by littlegreen at 9:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
The key component of US military force projection is even vulnerable to Canadians and you're budgeting to build more of them.
Sorry, do you mean more carriers or more Canadians?
posted by Etrigan at 9:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sorry, do you mean more carriers or more Canadians?
posted by Etrigan at 9:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
The very second the GOP has more to lose by standing by the orange disease than by stabbing him in the eye, the knives will come out. Only it will be some Tarantino knives, just crazy sharp excessive fuckery, because these people will have been *waiting*. I bet one of them brings a mace.
I really think the Trump crew goes for a coup, either outright or de facto, before the idiots in Congress realize the situation has moved past whatever line they've set for their collaboration. So yeah, the knives come out, but it won't be the congressional GOP holding them. And they might not be metaphorical knives.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
I really think the Trump crew goes for a coup, either outright or de facto, before the idiots in Congress realize the situation has moved past whatever line they've set for their collaboration. So yeah, the knives come out, but it won't be the congressional GOP holding them. And they might not be metaphorical knives.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:24 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sorry, do you mean more carriers or more Canadians?
The defence budget makes more carriers and the immigration policy makes lots of new Canadians.
posted by jaduncan at 9:26 AM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
The defence budget makes more carriers and the immigration policy makes lots of new Canadians.
posted by jaduncan at 9:26 AM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
Etrigan: "Mattis doesn't have the ability to tell Trump to fuck himself. But he knows how to massage Trump into making the decision Mattis wants him to make, at the time and location of Mattis's choosing, in the manner that Mattis believes will be best."
Are you practicing for the coup already or what? Mattis can't save us, stop fantasizing.
posted by TypographicalError at 9:26 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Are you practicing for the coup already or what? Mattis can't save us, stop fantasizing.
posted by TypographicalError at 9:26 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
And Germany has fewer Nazis now because they made it illegal.
Yep and they now fly the confederate flag instead.
posted by srboisvert at 9:27 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yep and they now fly the confederate flag instead.
posted by srboisvert at 9:27 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
this particular liberal really does have so much hatred.
I have been trying really hard not to give in to this. I find myself thinking horrible thoughts about people and it's so fucking toxic. I will not let Trump or the GOP turn me into a writhing ball of red hot hate.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:27 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have been trying really hard not to give in to this. I find myself thinking horrible thoughts about people and it's so fucking toxic. I will not let Trump or the GOP turn me into a writhing ball of red hot hate.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:27 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm genuinely curious - with the NIH/NSF/DOE cuts, does the (R) collective think the fundamental research with no clear path to sales/profit will move to corporations, or do they see it as having zero value whatsoever? The whole thing is very odd to me. A lot of big business R&D is subsidized by cherrypicking work/researchers from the grants that do pan out (pharma prime example but many others too).
posted by H. Roark at 9:30 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by H. Roark at 9:30 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
I really think the Trump crew goes for a coup, either outright or de facto, before the idiots in Congress realize the situation has moved past whatever line they've set for their collaboration. So yeah, the knives come out, but it won't be the congressional GOP holding them.
Before this happens, is it in any way feasible for Congress to pass bipartisan legislation cutting back the scope of Executive power and limit what can be done with EOs?
posted by puddledork at 9:30 AM on March 16, 2017
Before this happens, is it in any way feasible for Congress to pass bipartisan legislation cutting back the scope of Executive power and limit what can be done with EOs?
posted by puddledork at 9:30 AM on March 16, 2017
Are you practicing for the coup already or what? Mattis can't save us, stop fantasizing.
I think you're reading somewhat more into my comment than I intended. What I was saying was that Mattis has learned how to deal with Trump, not that he was necessarily going to do so to the best possible effect (as you or I would define it). That's why I said "Mattis" so much and not "us" or even "America".
posted by Etrigan at 9:30 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think you're reading somewhat more into my comment than I intended. What I was saying was that Mattis has learned how to deal with Trump, not that he was necessarily going to do so to the best possible effect (as you or I would define it). That's why I said "Mattis" so much and not "us" or even "America".
posted by Etrigan at 9:30 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I like the idea that a amce will be involved. That's one cheery thought for these gloomy times.
Note that the UK parliament has a mace but it's not the cool kind and nobody has tried to hit anybody with it since the 80s.
posted by Artw at 9:34 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Note that the UK parliament has a mace but it's not the cool kind and nobody has tried to hit anybody with it since the 80s.
posted by Artw at 9:34 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
The key component of US military force projection is even vulnerable to Canadians and you're budgeting to build more of them.Trump = secret Canadian. That Ivanka meeting with Trudeau makes so much sense now.
posted by Sonny Jim at 9:34 AM on March 16, 2017
Before this happens, is it in any way feasible for Congress to pass bipartisan legislation cutting back the scope of Executive power and limit what can be done with EOs?
They would absolutely have the votes for veto-proof passage of such bills if useful-idiot Republicans realized the shit they're in, but in order to do that they'd have to stop being idiots.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:40 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
They would absolutely have the votes for veto-proof passage of such bills if useful-idiot Republicans realized the shit they're in, but in order to do that they'd have to stop being idiots.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:40 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
this particular liberal really does have so much hatred.
Colonel Tanner: All that hate's gonna burn you up, kid.posted by octobersurprise at 9:42 AM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Robert Morris: It keeps me warm.
— Red Dawn (1984)
So Sam Bee is riffing on the Deep State this week and is selling Deep State class of 2017 jackets.
posted by Talez at 9:42 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:42 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Whoever was on their last day as McDonald's Social Media coordinator, and decided to go out in a blaze of glory, sir or madam, I salute you.
I try to avoid just frothing at the mouth all the time by adopting an attitude of cold determination, like when I found out we had cockroaches breeding in horrific numbers in the folded cardboard boxes that fell behind our fridge.
I had to put aside my desire to scream and run away, or burn the house down, put on some rubber gloves, get the bug spray and Lysol, and take care of that situation.
You need a steely-eyed determination to accept the situation as-is, and do what you have to to clean it up.
posted by emjaybee at 9:45 AM on March 16, 2017 [25 favorites]
I try to avoid just frothing at the mouth all the time by adopting an attitude of cold determination, like when I found out we had cockroaches breeding in horrific numbers in the folded cardboard boxes that fell behind our fridge.
I had to put aside my desire to scream and run away, or burn the house down, put on some rubber gloves, get the bug spray and Lysol, and take care of that situation.
You need a steely-eyed determination to accept the situation as-is, and do what you have to to clean it up.
posted by emjaybee at 9:45 AM on March 16, 2017 [25 favorites]
Talez: So Sam Bee is riffing on the Deep State this week and is selling Deep State class of 2017 jackets.
I half joked with my wife about updating my t-shirt collection, which is currently 80% weird Threadless shirts and 20% musician and music-related shirts, by buying a ton of political shirts in support of various causes. Now we can also get an awesome hoodie, to replace our bland hoodies.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I half joked with my wife about updating my t-shirt collection, which is currently 80% weird Threadless shirts and 20% musician and music-related shirts, by buying a ton of political shirts in support of various causes. Now we can also get an awesome hoodie, to replace our bland hoodies.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Deep State class of 2017 jackets
If I wore one of these over my "Straight Shooter Respected on Both Sides" t-shirt*, does that mean I win Angry Democrat Twitter?
*Yes I have one. They're made in Pittsburgh. I couldn't not.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
If I wore one of these over my "Straight Shooter Respected on Both Sides" t-shirt*, does that mean I win Angry Democrat Twitter?
*Yes I have one. They're made in Pittsburgh. I couldn't not.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:49 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Last committee meeting before Trumpcare heads to Congress. Get it while it's hot.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:53 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:53 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: ‘Wayne Tracker: Legends of the Caped Crusader’
Is there anyone in the Trump White House who does not have a secret alter ego? Trump was John Barron. Sean Spicer was the Easter Bunny. And now we discover that Rex Tillerson was, allegedly … Wayne Tracker, sender of emails about climate change.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:53 AM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
But with a name like that, surely this cannot be all. It’s too macho to be used simply to send and receive emails. This is an alias that belongs in the field.
Fortunately, I was able to get my hands on some early issues of “Wayne Tracker: Legends of the Caped Crusader” and fill in this gap. No wonder he won’t take journalists with him on foreign junkets. They might see him don the cowl.
I don't think there's going to be a coup. I think what will happen is that Trump's budget is garbage and will never pass. I think we'll get a bad budget with social services cuts, but not an apocalyptic one.
This is why: Every government dollar goes to someone with clout. Even the NEA and the NEH fund programs at the Smithsonian, flagship American arts spaces, etc. And you know who likes those things? The very rich. I think there's some possibility that the NEA and the NEH get thrown to the wolves, but even that isn't guaranteed. The EPA is in big trouble, but maybe not as big trouble as it appears.
Who is negatively impacted by these budget cuts? Universities! Harvard, MIT, the University of Minnesota, UCLA, etc. Big universities with strong alumni associations and rich graduates. Big universities that are big players in their states. And those universities and many of their connections are going to be screaming over the cuts that hit their programs.
Everyone who gets to spend money locally because of government dollars is going to be upset by this budget. Consider the split between Republican governors who want to keep the Medicaid expansion and the wingnut House Republicans who are basically not accountable to anyone except their itty, stupid base. Consider that split, and extend it to everything. Consider all those people voting at the midterms.
I don't actually think that what is going to happen is a coup and no elections again ever. I think what's going to happen is a lot of Trumpian sound and fury, corrected by Congress to a bad budget that we can hopefully fix after we kick these people out and fumigate their offices.
It will be pretty terrible, but the important thing to remember is that Bannon et al have plans but they are dumbshit plans. "I plan to burn down the US and rule the wreckage; all rich people should join me" is not actually a good plan, no matter how many times you've read that Fourth Turning book.
posted by Frowner at 9:59 AM on March 16, 2017 [51 favorites]
This is why: Every government dollar goes to someone with clout. Even the NEA and the NEH fund programs at the Smithsonian, flagship American arts spaces, etc. And you know who likes those things? The very rich. I think there's some possibility that the NEA and the NEH get thrown to the wolves, but even that isn't guaranteed. The EPA is in big trouble, but maybe not as big trouble as it appears.
Who is negatively impacted by these budget cuts? Universities! Harvard, MIT, the University of Minnesota, UCLA, etc. Big universities with strong alumni associations and rich graduates. Big universities that are big players in their states. And those universities and many of their connections are going to be screaming over the cuts that hit their programs.
Everyone who gets to spend money locally because of government dollars is going to be upset by this budget. Consider the split between Republican governors who want to keep the Medicaid expansion and the wingnut House Republicans who are basically not accountable to anyone except their itty, stupid base. Consider that split, and extend it to everything. Consider all those people voting at the midterms.
I don't actually think that what is going to happen is a coup and no elections again ever. I think what's going to happen is a lot of Trumpian sound and fury, corrected by Congress to a bad budget that we can hopefully fix after we kick these people out and fumigate their offices.
It will be pretty terrible, but the important thing to remember is that Bannon et al have plans but they are dumbshit plans. "I plan to burn down the US and rule the wreckage; all rich people should join me" is not actually a good plan, no matter how many times you've read that Fourth Turning book.
posted by Frowner at 9:59 AM on March 16, 2017 [51 favorites]
Trump budget proposes 13 percent cut to Transportation Dept (The Hill, 03/16/17)
And Amtrak ... that was expected, given all the other heavy cuts.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:00 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Department of Transportation (DOT) faces a $2.4 billion cut under President Trump's proposed federal budget blueprint — a surprising figure given Trump's pledges to improve U.S. infrastructure.TIGER is/was one of a few big grants for infrastructure, with each cycle getting billions of dollars of project requests for the annaul $500 million grant opportunities.
The department's funding would be cut by 13 percent, to $16.2 billion, according to the proposal released early Thursday.
"The Budget request reflects a streamlined DOT that is focused on performing vital Federal safety oversight functions and investing in nationally and regionally significant transportation infrastructure projects," the budget document says.
"The Budget reduces or eliminates programs that are either inefficient, duplicative of other Federal efforts, or that involve activities that are better delivered by States, localities, or the private sector."
...
The budget limits funding for the Federal Transit Administration's Capital Investment program, eliminates funding for the Essential Air Service program and ends federal support for long-distance Amtrak trains.
The blueprint also eliminates funding for the Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery (TIGER) grant program, which was set up by the Obama administration’s 2009 economic stimulus package to provide an extra injection of cash for surface transportation projects.
The grants are appropriated by Congress every year but were never authorized. The proposal estimates that scrapping the program would save $499 million annually.
And Amtrak ... that was expected, given all the other heavy cuts.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:00 AM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
I will not let Trump or the GOP turn me into a writhing ball of red hot hate
Join us here in the void!
You don't have to hate people, just their racist, vile, venal attitudes and policies. Hatred keeps us motivated.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:00 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Join us here in the void!
You don't have to hate people, just their racist, vile, venal attitudes and policies. Hatred keeps us motivated.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:00 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Takes series of deep breathes, unable to differentiate between compromised organs and anxiety attack.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:03 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 10:03 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
selling Deep State class of 2017 jackets.
I want a t-shirt with "Deep State" in a TNR-ish font, like last fall's WINONA tees.
(It's laugh or cry, people.)
posted by octobersurprise at 10:05 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I want a t-shirt with "Deep State" in a TNR-ish font, like last fall's WINONA tees.
(It's laugh or cry, people.)
posted by octobersurprise at 10:05 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
> and ends federal support for long-distance Amtrak trains.
Everything with these jerks is about punitive score-settling. Can't you guys just let Biden enjoy his retirement?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:05 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
Everything with these jerks is about punitive score-settling. Can't you guys just let Biden enjoy his retirement?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:05 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
and ends federal support for long-distance Amtrak trains.
RELEASE...THEKRAKENBIDEN!
posted by zombieflanders at 10:09 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
RELEASE...THE
posted by zombieflanders at 10:09 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Remember this sweatshirt that John Belushi wore in Animal House?
posted by carmicha at 10:13 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by carmicha at 10:13 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
and ends federal support for long-distance Amtrak trains.
We will spend $1tn on the infrastructure America needs*! *if your definition of useful infrastructure does not include trains!
posted by jaduncan at 10:19 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
We will spend $1tn on the infrastructure America needs*! *if your definition of useful infrastructure does not include trains!
posted by jaduncan at 10:19 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Post is doing great work on the budget (and it looks to my eyes like they broke the embargo and published early last night, good for them). Here's A day in the life of a poor American under Trump’s proposed budget
Meanwhile, the leaks continue, this time with Internal Trump administration data undercuts travel ban. It cites one report as previously unpublicized, even though Maddow broke the story of that report earlier this month (not cool), but also cites another report based on classified FBI data in which most of the terror suspects don't come from the banned countries.
Please enjoy: Stephen Pulls A 'Rachel Maddow'
And finally in entertainment news, SNL to actually air live on the West Coast.
posted by zachlipton at 10:22 AM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Meanwhile, the leaks continue, this time with Internal Trump administration data undercuts travel ban. It cites one report as previously unpublicized, even though Maddow broke the story of that report earlier this month (not cool), but also cites another report based on classified FBI data in which most of the terror suspects don't come from the banned countries.
Please enjoy: Stephen Pulls A 'Rachel Maddow'
And finally in entertainment news, SNL to actually air live on the West Coast.
posted by zachlipton at 10:22 AM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
A day in the life of a poor American under Trump’s proposed budget: Breakfast. Luckily, cuts to WIC’s nutrition assistance program haven’t affected your family. But you still need to be judicious about what food is in the house, now that the Meals on Wheels program that helped your father has been cut, as a result of the elimination of federal Community Development Block Grants. Something small, then. You still get the same supplemental nutrition assistance as before, but it never went very far. Your younger son’s asthma is acting up. The county’s efforts to cut down on the air pollution that exacerbates it were slowed when the Environmental Protection Agency’s grant program was axed.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:22 AM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:22 AM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Everything with these jerks is about punitive score-settling. Can't you guys just let Biden enjoy his retirement?
We will spend $1tn on the infrastructure America needs*! *if your definition of useful infrastructure does not include trains!
It may be worth pointing out that Amtrak's clientele generally aren't poor and aren't needy. Less than a sixth of Amtrak passengers make under $20K. If you're getting between places on the extreme cheap you're taking Greyhound or Megabus, not Amtrak. I realize it's sad and I love and prefer NEC service from Boston to NYC over air but trains are a drain on the budget for the upper middle class's benefit not the poor's. The equation needs to change somehow. I doubt these chowderheads will do it right though.
posted by Talez at 10:26 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
We will spend $1tn on the infrastructure America needs*! *if your definition of useful infrastructure does not include trains!
It may be worth pointing out that Amtrak's clientele generally aren't poor and aren't needy. Less than a sixth of Amtrak passengers make under $20K. If you're getting between places on the extreme cheap you're taking Greyhound or Megabus, not Amtrak. I realize it's sad and I love and prefer NEC service from Boston to NYC over air but trains are a drain on the budget for the upper middle class's benefit not the poor's. The equation needs to change somehow. I doubt these chowderheads will do it right though.
posted by Talez at 10:26 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
and ends federal support for long-distance Amtrak trains.
Come on, money for gleams!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:29 AM on March 16, 2017 [25 favorites]
"Crumbling infrastructure will be replaced with new roads, bridges, tunnels, airports and railways, gleaming across our very very beautiful land."-DJT, Feb 28th
Come on, money for gleams!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:29 AM on March 16, 2017 [25 favorites]
From Rep. Cummings and House Oversight Dems:
Flynn Received Funds From Instrument of Russian Government
Flynn Received Funds From Instrument of Russian Government
Rep. Elijah E. Cummings, Ranking Member of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, sent a letter to President Donald J. Trump, Defense Secretary James Mattis, and FBI Director James Comey requesting information about whether Lt. General Michael Flynn fully disclosed — as part of the security clearance and vetting process for his return to government — his communications with and payments from Russian agents, Turkish agents, or any other foreign agents, as well as his payments from foreign sources.posted by melissasaurus at 10:32 AM on March 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
As part of his letter, Cummings released new documents obtained by the Oversight Committee — including payment vouchers, international financial transaction logs, and detailed email exchanges with Russian media officials — showing that the Kremlin-backed media outlet known as RT paid more than $45,000 for Flynn’s participation at a gala in Moscow in December 2015, during which he dined with Russian President Vladimir Putin, in apparent violation of the Emoluments Clause of the U.S. Constitution. [...]
The documents reveal that Flynn also received $11,250 from a Russian charter cargo airline and $11,250 from a top Russia-based cybersecurity corporation.
Do you want revenge, or do you want this poison gone?
Why not both? The so-called "Tea Party" movement, despite being nothing more than a corporate-funded rebranding of the dead-end Republicans who still thought George W. Bush was doing a good job in 2008, set the narrative for the remainder of Obama's presidency, not to mention putting the Republican agenda squarely in the hands of the far right and hobbling much of Obama's initiatives. One of the reasons we are where we are is because feckless Democrats -- but I repeat myself -- ran from the ACA rather than defending it on the points that even Republican voters say they like now.
So yes, absolutely -- the place we should give Republicans to run is nothing less than #nevertrump, for real, instead of a meaningless pose for the Sunday TV cameras.
posted by Gelatin at 10:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Why not both? The so-called "Tea Party" movement, despite being nothing more than a corporate-funded rebranding of the dead-end Republicans who still thought George W. Bush was doing a good job in 2008, set the narrative for the remainder of Obama's presidency, not to mention putting the Republican agenda squarely in the hands of the far right and hobbling much of Obama's initiatives. One of the reasons we are where we are is because feckless Democrats -- but I repeat myself -- ran from the ACA rather than defending it on the points that even Republican voters say they like now.
So yes, absolutely -- the place we should give Republicans to run is nothing less than #nevertrump, for real, instead of a meaningless pose for the Sunday TV cameras.
posted by Gelatin at 10:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
The documents reveal that Flynn also received $11,250 from a Russian charter cargo airline and $11,250 from a top Russia-based cybersecurity corporation.
That would be Kaspersky Labs, which also recently had an employee charged by the Russians with treason for supplying info to the FBI.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
That would be Kaspersky Labs, which also recently had an employee charged by the Russians with treason for supplying info to the FBI.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
It may be worth pointing out that Amtrak's clientele generally aren't poor and aren't needy. Less than a sixth of Amtrak passengers make under $20K. If you're getting between places on the extreme cheap you're taking Greyhound or Megabus, not Amtrak. I realize it's sad and I love and prefer NEC service from Boston to NYC over air but trains are a drain on the budget for the upper middle class's benefit not the poor's. The equation needs to change somehow. I doubt these chowderheads will do it right though.
Sure. That isn't the only way to approach the question though. Does investment in Amtrak produce an ROI for the economy that exceeds the borrowing costs? If so, the question of if it benefits only the poor isn't as crucial as it usually is. The government just have to then tax the businesses and people it benefits.
posted by jaduncan at 10:39 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
cjelli: In "Mike Huckabee Sinks To New Lows" news: Huckabee: Trump Should Ignore Travel Ban Ruling, Like Jackson With Trail Of Tears
Question: aren't CBP and airport security people already doing this work? Because with story after story after story of people traveling to the US being turned away and US citizens being questions for hours before being let back into their country, it sounds like the travel ban freezes have been ignored.
Also, are you really going to celebrate actions that took place in what is now your state where native people were forcibly removed from their homes to clear space for Anglo-European settlers? Telling Trump to ignore the law and enforce what you're pretty much calling his own Indian Removal Act is putting you solidly on the wrong side of history by almost 200 years. And much like the "temporary" travel ban, it's providing fodder to your opponents.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:41 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
Question: aren't CBP and airport security people already doing this work? Because with story after story after story of people traveling to the US being turned away and US citizens being questions for hours before being let back into their country, it sounds like the travel ban freezes have been ignored.
Also, are you really going to celebrate actions that took place in what is now your state where native people were forcibly removed from their homes to clear space for Anglo-European settlers? Telling Trump to ignore the law and enforce what you're pretty much calling his own Indian Removal Act is putting you solidly on the wrong side of history by almost 200 years. And much like the "temporary" travel ban, it's providing fodder to your opponents.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:41 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
For something more empowering:
posted by filthy light thief at 10:44 AM on March 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
The National LGBTQ Task Force Action Fund has developed the Queering Reproductive Justice toolkit (1.13 mb PDF) to support the integration of repro* and LGBTQ advocacy. This first-of-its-kind toolkit covers some of the fundamentals of repro* and LGBTQ issues, major challenges advocates face, and advocacy tactics designed to address these challenges. The toolkit aims to help advocates understand the intersection and allow them to better reflect and serve the repro* needs of LGBTQ people. The Queering Reproductive Justice Toolkit makes the case that repro* rights are LGBTQ rights.For advocacy tools, turn to pages forty-nine to sixty-two.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:44 AM on March 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
Joint statement from Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Burr and Vice-Chair Warner: "Based on the information available to us, we see no indications that Trump Tower was the subject of surveillance by any element of the United States government either before or after Election Day 2016"
They should demand Trump testify about what he knows next.
posted by zachlipton at 10:50 AM on March 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
They should demand Trump testify about what he knows next.
posted by zachlipton at 10:50 AM on March 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
Unlike the events his predecessors held to build support for their agenda, Trump's [rallies are] being organized and funded by his presidential reelection campaign rather than the White House
If nothing else, that means the Dems can push back on any Supreme Court nominations with the same justification the GOP used to stall Obama - "we shouldn't be discussing such a nomination during election season."
posted by filthy light thief at 10:52 AM on March 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
If nothing else, that means the Dems can push back on any Supreme Court nominations with the same justification the GOP used to stall Obama - "we shouldn't be discussing such a nomination during election season."
posted by filthy light thief at 10:52 AM on March 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
If you're getting between places on the extreme cheap you're taking Greyhound or Megabus, not Amtrak
Right, but isn't that at least partially because of Amtrak's bizarre public/private funding model? They already were getting less federal money than the TSA. Also I partially blame the way we constantly have of framing questions like this:
Does investment in Amtrak produce an ROI for the economy that exceeds the borrowing costs?
Instead of asking "Why do we have to justify public transportation as an economic rather than social good? [rhetorical; I know why, just hate it]
I realize this is somewhat moot since the discussion at hand is about the actual executive asking how to best make sure poor people to pay for the shit sandwich and even then only get to eat half of it, but I'm old enough to remember when passenger trains were a much more viable way of getting around the country.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:57 AM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Right, but isn't that at least partially because of Amtrak's bizarre public/private funding model? They already were getting less federal money than the TSA. Also I partially blame the way we constantly have of framing questions like this:
Does investment in Amtrak produce an ROI for the economy that exceeds the borrowing costs?
Instead of asking "Why do we have to justify public transportation as an economic rather than social good? [rhetorical; I know why, just hate it]
I realize this is somewhat moot since the discussion at hand is about the actual executive asking how to best make sure poor people to pay for the shit sandwich and even then only get to eat half of it, but I'm old enough to remember when passenger trains were a much more viable way of getting around the country.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:57 AM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Someone burns a Jewish student's mezuzah at their UC Hastings (San Francisco) residence hall.
Also, Spicey time.
posted by zachlipton at 10:59 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also, Spicey time.
posted by zachlipton at 10:59 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think it's also a social good. I'm in favour of it on that basis...it just also pays for itself, which makes it hard not to love.
posted by jaduncan at 11:01 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jaduncan at 11:01 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
In any testimonial situation that requires a Congressional body to call witnesses and hear it, Trump is safe because that is not ever going to happen.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:06 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:06 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
‘Saturday Night Live’ to Air Live Across the Country: Starting on April 15, the show will air live simultaneously across the country for the first time in its history, coinciding with the East Coast airing, Variety has learned. This schedule change impacts the final four episodes of the current season.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:06 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:06 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
He needs to
he needs to
he doesn't need to do a damn thing, he can be the shit-flingingest toddler in the shit-filled kiddie pool and accuse Obama of being a sorcerer for all it matters to the spineless cowards in congress who won't hold him accountable for a damned thing.
maybe, if this is not all part of god's plan to destroy us all, things will be different in 2018, but all that motherfucker needs to do in 2018 is get his ass impeached
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
he needs to
he doesn't need to do a damn thing, he can be the shit-flingingest toddler in the shit-filled kiddie pool and accuse Obama of being a sorcerer for all it matters to the spineless cowards in congress who won't hold him accountable for a damned thing.
maybe, if this is not all part of god's plan to destroy us all, things will be different in 2018, but all that motherfucker needs to do in 2018 is get his ass impeached
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
aspersioncast: Instead of asking "Why do we have to justify public transportation as an economic rather than social good? [rhetorical; I know why, just hate it]
Everything is about instant gratification level economics for many Republicans. Like I mentioned upthread, if there's not a direct benefit, ideally to them personally, Republicans don't care or have the patience for the benefits, plus an unhealthy dose of "hate the sinner AND the sin, but mostly the sinner," where the "sin" is anything that they don't like. Drug and/or crime epidemic? Let's get Tough On Crime and build more jails, instead of treating drug addiction as a medical condition and investing in communities and education to offer opportunities that compete with gangs.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Everything is about instant gratification level economics for many Republicans. Like I mentioned upthread, if there's not a direct benefit, ideally to them personally, Republicans don't care or have the patience for the benefits, plus an unhealthy dose of "hate the sinner AND the sin, but mostly the sinner," where the "sin" is anything that they don't like. Drug and/or crime epidemic? Let's get Tough On Crime and build more jails, instead of treating drug addiction as a medical condition and investing in communities and education to offer opportunities that compete with gangs.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:10 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Research in the U.S. is going to be devastated by this for generations.
Belated jumping in on this, but this budget as proposed will be fundamentally devastating to US competitiveness. Innovation across all sectors is underpinned by our robust research infrastructure across the university/national lab/research institute sector; it attracts the best minds across the globe, it's responsible for the advances in batteries, therapeutics, software, startups, interconnectivity, everything. This has the potential to damage the fundamentals of the US economy, driving innovation and entrepreneurial activity elsewhere and kicking off a brain drain as talented scientists, engineers, and physicians head elsewhere.
This is the second most alarming part of the budget to me, after the starvation of homebound elders.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:11 AM on March 16, 2017 [46 favorites]
Belated jumping in on this, but this budget as proposed will be fundamentally devastating to US competitiveness. Innovation across all sectors is underpinned by our robust research infrastructure across the university/national lab/research institute sector; it attracts the best minds across the globe, it's responsible for the advances in batteries, therapeutics, software, startups, interconnectivity, everything. This has the potential to damage the fundamentals of the US economy, driving innovation and entrepreneurial activity elsewhere and kicking off a brain drain as talented scientists, engineers, and physicians head elsewhere.
This is the second most alarming part of the budget to me, after the starvation of homebound elders.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:11 AM on March 16, 2017 [46 favorites]
Okay, so at what point can Obama sue for the wiretapping allegations?
posted by MattWPBS at 11:12 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by MattWPBS at 11:12 AM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Back to transit: instead of thinking everyone should have their own car, support transportation options, and recognize that every person on a bus means one less in a car, reducing congestion without having to add lanes, if you could actually have space and money to build new road lanes.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:12 AM on March 16, 2017
posted by filthy light thief at 11:12 AM on March 16, 2017
National treasure Charles Pierce: This Is the Ending Conservatives Always Wanted
There is an increased stirring among allegedly respectable conservatives to separate themselves from the president* and his more manic supporters in the Congress and out in the country. To hell with them. Like Haman, they're dancing on a gallows they spent years devising. This budget represents the diamond-hard reality behind all those lofty pronouncements from oil-sodden think tanks, all those learned disquisitions in little, startlingly advertising-free magazines, all those earnest young graduates of prestige universities who dedicated their intellects to putting an educated gloss on greed and ignorance, and ideological camouflage on retrograde policies that should have died with Calvin Coolidge—or perhaps Louis XVI.
This is it, right here, this budget. This is the beau ideal of movement conservative governance.
Let's never pretend the problem is Trump. It's Republicans and Republican voters.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:14 AM on March 16, 2017 [80 favorites]
There is an increased stirring among allegedly respectable conservatives to separate themselves from the president* and his more manic supporters in the Congress and out in the country. To hell with them. Like Haman, they're dancing on a gallows they spent years devising. This budget represents the diamond-hard reality behind all those lofty pronouncements from oil-sodden think tanks, all those learned disquisitions in little, startlingly advertising-free magazines, all those earnest young graduates of prestige universities who dedicated their intellects to putting an educated gloss on greed and ignorance, and ideological camouflage on retrograde policies that should have died with Calvin Coolidge—or perhaps Louis XVI.
This is it, right here, this budget. This is the beau ideal of movement conservative governance.
Let's never pretend the problem is Trump. It's Republicans and Republican voters.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:14 AM on March 16, 2017 [80 favorites]
Existential Dread: This has the potential to damage the fundamentals of the US economy, driving innovation and entrepreneurial activity elsewhere and kicking off a brain drain as talented scientist, engineers, and physicians head elsewhere.
EXACTLY. Pair that with the travel ban, stricter limits on immigration, rolling back regulations to make drinking water safe, it seems that people would be foolish to look to the US for an opportunity, which is then an opportunity lost for the US. I think Canada could win big with this.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:15 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
EXACTLY. Pair that with the travel ban, stricter limits on immigration, rolling back regulations to make drinking water safe, it seems that people would be foolish to look to the US for an opportunity, which is then an opportunity lost for the US. I think Canada could win big with this.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:15 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Well, I spent the last two hours of my theoretical "work day"* catching up with the political news, and in among my fatigue and exhaustion with the budget, here's my first thought: "Why should I do my job?" Like. Why should I apply for grants? Why should I put myself out there and scrabble for a DDIG, why should I invest more time into my science? I mean, when we're at the point where a government shutdown looks more promising, not less, when I remember the last one had my old college roommate going "WELLP not sure about my rent but I guess Netflix marathons are go?" from her job at the CDC and my colleagues on fellowships going "not.... sure if we are allowed to work or not???" When I'm going "ah, yes, the budget we regard from over here in integrative biology as the land of fucking milk and honey is getting cut by 20% and our own rail-thin beloved NSF isn't even worthy of mention.
I don't even fucking want to leave science. I want my PhD, I want those fucking letters after my name and I want to get through and graduate, but I'm so--I'm so tired, and this job, this phase of my career wouldn't be easy even if my nation was just ignoring me instead of actively trying to fuck me over harder; I'm trying to mine knowledge from nothing and that hits roadblocks and it fucking sucks when a goddamn PhD is the soothing replenishing constant in my life!
And all anyone around me can do--all I can do for myself--is wince and say "I'm sorry" or "your mental health does not look great" or "have you considered therapy?" and yes I am doing all of these things I have SSRIs and a biweekly appointment with my therapist! If I'm this obviously crazy that just makes me more frustrated because I am trying to not let it all seep through the cracks, I really fucking am. But it's like. The shit that is making me crazy and angry and unbalanced isn't in my head, it's by and large not actually in my personal control, if I am not very careful indeed it's going to fuck me over, and just--
aaaugh all I have right now is the realization that I should force some soup down my increasingly sore throat--like many of my peers I am currently battling a cold; turns out stress suppresses immune function--and breathe and look at my damn data sets and try not to sit too paralyzed. And I should sit, reflect on the trade-off between personal mental/emotional health care and the importance of immediate action to stop this shit now, while we can, before the only thing to do is flee--and then go take a damn break (again) and try to nab some other falling ball in the air before it can strike the ground.
or I mean, I could go with my other, stronger, impulse: to go find or concoct some kind of massively radioactive super serum like a Marvel scientist to turn myself into some kind of irradiated oversized monster beast. Then I could go stomping down to the Capitol screaming and maybe destroying property in my wake; I could roar into the crowds and lean down to give one of my own state senators a lift to work if he wanted it and then turn and scream into the faces of the smug, self-satisfied state legislature. I could use my ugly spikes and massive slab-like hands to crush the buildings that those money-worshiping death cultists use to enact their agendas, sow so much destruction and defiance that the machinery would fall apart in my wake and nothing would get done while they battled the force of my obscene and bereft rage and grief.
I could immolate myself in a fireball of righteous anger, look for a martyring cause to burn myself up for; make myself literally Katy Perry's fucking Firework to draw more public attention to my rage and pain and fear for my kindred and family. I think, I could sacrifice just about anything about myself in one fell swoop, if only I could see a way forward that let me pay any price I can yield up to stop this grindstone from mashing up my whole way of life. I'd pay it, any price that's mine to give, and I'd do it with a smile as a did so, and burn everything I am for fuel as I did so.
But those impulses are grand, sure, but too ephemeral to be real solutions; claws and monster hands and fiery licks of righteous flame and smoke are a fine spectacle but they make doing the small work of creating a sustainably changed society all but impossible. I can't type my fury if my fingers singe the keys; I can't go inside to vote if I've shattered the entrance hall of the voting registrar by doing so. I can't throw my shoulder to the wheel if it's so big my full effort shatters it before it moves us out of the mud or so hot that my presence burns the whole cart before we can collectively free it. I know that many small sustainable actions are the only reliable path out of this mess.
I know.
But damn if the other two scenarios aren't so much more appealing to part of me. Not always a small part, either.
*(it's spring break, I know I should be doing research harder but I haven't actually taken spring break off research work since 2010 except for that week in 2014 when I went to Boston to get married so fuck it)
posted by sciatrix at 11:15 AM on March 16, 2017 [62 favorites]
I don't even fucking want to leave science. I want my PhD, I want those fucking letters after my name and I want to get through and graduate, but I'm so--I'm so tired, and this job, this phase of my career wouldn't be easy even if my nation was just ignoring me instead of actively trying to fuck me over harder; I'm trying to mine knowledge from nothing and that hits roadblocks and it fucking sucks when a goddamn PhD is the soothing replenishing constant in my life!
And all anyone around me can do--all I can do for myself--is wince and say "I'm sorry" or "your mental health does not look great" or "have you considered therapy?" and yes I am doing all of these things I have SSRIs and a biweekly appointment with my therapist! If I'm this obviously crazy that just makes me more frustrated because I am trying to not let it all seep through the cracks, I really fucking am. But it's like. The shit that is making me crazy and angry and unbalanced isn't in my head, it's by and large not actually in my personal control, if I am not very careful indeed it's going to fuck me over, and just--
aaaugh all I have right now is the realization that I should force some soup down my increasingly sore throat--like many of my peers I am currently battling a cold; turns out stress suppresses immune function--and breathe and look at my damn data sets and try not to sit too paralyzed. And I should sit, reflect on the trade-off between personal mental/emotional health care and the importance of immediate action to stop this shit now, while we can, before the only thing to do is flee--and then go take a damn break (again) and try to nab some other falling ball in the air before it can strike the ground.
or I mean, I could go with my other, stronger, impulse: to go find or concoct some kind of massively radioactive super serum like a Marvel scientist to turn myself into some kind of irradiated oversized monster beast. Then I could go stomping down to the Capitol screaming and maybe destroying property in my wake; I could roar into the crowds and lean down to give one of my own state senators a lift to work if he wanted it and then turn and scream into the faces of the smug, self-satisfied state legislature. I could use my ugly spikes and massive slab-like hands to crush the buildings that those money-worshiping death cultists use to enact their agendas, sow so much destruction and defiance that the machinery would fall apart in my wake and nothing would get done while they battled the force of my obscene and bereft rage and grief.
I could immolate myself in a fireball of righteous anger, look for a martyring cause to burn myself up for; make myself literally Katy Perry's fucking Firework to draw more public attention to my rage and pain and fear for my kindred and family. I think, I could sacrifice just about anything about myself in one fell swoop, if only I could see a way forward that let me pay any price I can yield up to stop this grindstone from mashing up my whole way of life. I'd pay it, any price that's mine to give, and I'd do it with a smile as a did so, and burn everything I am for fuel as I did so.
But those impulses are grand, sure, but too ephemeral to be real solutions; claws and monster hands and fiery licks of righteous flame and smoke are a fine spectacle but they make doing the small work of creating a sustainably changed society all but impossible. I can't type my fury if my fingers singe the keys; I can't go inside to vote if I've shattered the entrance hall of the voting registrar by doing so. I can't throw my shoulder to the wheel if it's so big my full effort shatters it before it moves us out of the mud or so hot that my presence burns the whole cart before we can collectively free it. I know that many small sustainable actions are the only reliable path out of this mess.
I know.
But damn if the other two scenarios aren't so much more appealing to part of me. Not always a small part, either.
*(it's spring break, I know I should be doing research harder but I haven't actually taken spring break off research work since 2010 except for that week in 2014 when I went to Boston to get married so fuck it)
posted by sciatrix at 11:15 AM on March 16, 2017 [62 favorites]
A very relatable poem from Patricia Lockwood
I said out loud for the first time ever, I want to deface a car. I wanted other things too, as it happened — the things I wanted were so specific.posted by DynamiteToast at 11:15 AM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
You see I was looking at the bodies all day. The unrolling skins of the politicians. Due to recent developments I could see every pore, and a moistness at the corner of the eyes.
I thought I would like to make that moistness.
Totally, flt. And like so many of the postwar US's hysterically* backward obsessions (someone mentioned the failure to adopt metric and dollar coins back upthread somewhere), we are far, far behind most developed nations in recognizing this.
*for certain interpretations of the word
posted by aspersioncast at 11:17 AM on March 16, 2017
*for certain interpretations of the word
posted by aspersioncast at 11:17 AM on March 16, 2017
sciatrix: I could immolate myself in a fireball of righteous anger, look for a martyring cause to burn myself up for; make myself literally Katy Perry's fucking Firework to draw more public attention to my rage and pain and fear for my kindred and family.
You can set yourself on fire only once. You can keep fighting, over and over, fight after fight. It's draining, but you're still alive.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:18 AM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
You can set yourself on fire only once. You can keep fighting, over and over, fight after fight. It's draining, but you're still alive.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:18 AM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
This has the potential to damage the fundamentals of the US economy, driving innovation and entrepreneurial activity elsewhere and kicking off a brain drain as talented scientists, engineers, and physicians head elsewhere.
I know multiple scientists who are already making plans to leave in the next few years, as soon as they can do so without irreparably damaging their careers, and sooner if they decide they need to. One of them is an Iranian-American scientist who was first author on a Science paper during her dissertation; a Science paper, no less, on the epigenetics of neurological variation within individuals.
I am looking at the potential of leaving. We are not kicking off a brain drain. At the point that we are at, it's a matter of when we lose that talent, not "we could" lose it.
posted by sciatrix at 11:19 AM on March 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
I know multiple scientists who are already making plans to leave in the next few years, as soon as they can do so without irreparably damaging their careers, and sooner if they decide they need to. One of them is an Iranian-American scientist who was first author on a Science paper during her dissertation; a Science paper, no less, on the epigenetics of neurological variation within individuals.
I am looking at the potential of leaving. We are not kicking off a brain drain. At the point that we are at, it's a matter of when we lose that talent, not "we could" lose it.
posted by sciatrix at 11:19 AM on March 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
Yeah. I know. That's what's keeping me from doing it, more than anything else. That knowledge.
Fuck, this is not a great place for my headspace any more. But what do you do, when mental health care is like a brace or a supportive treatment to let your body heal itself, and the world just keeps throwing shattering blow after shattering blow at you and you can't dodge all of them?
What do we do?
posted by sciatrix at 11:21 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Fuck, this is not a great place for my headspace any more. But what do you do, when mental health care is like a brace or a supportive treatment to let your body heal itself, and the world just keeps throwing shattering blow after shattering blow at you and you can't dodge all of them?
What do we do?
posted by sciatrix at 11:21 AM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Tucker Carlson: "The counties who voted for you will do far worse under your plan"
Donald Trump: "Oh, I know..."
posted by porn in the woods at 11:22 AM on March 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
Donald Trump: "Oh, I know..."
posted by porn in the woods at 11:22 AM on March 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
What do we do?
March and yell and go to meetings and call our reps if we have them and say the things we believe in and hug our friends and introduce ourselves to our neighbors and grind our teeth and lose sleep and make sure we know how to do things like fix our clothes and sharpen our knives and teach kids to do the things we know how to do and hopefully live long enough to get old.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:25 AM on March 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
March and yell and go to meetings and call our reps if we have them and say the things we believe in and hug our friends and introduce ourselves to our neighbors and grind our teeth and lose sleep and make sure we know how to do things like fix our clothes and sharpen our knives and teach kids to do the things we know how to do and hopefully live long enough to get old.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:25 AM on March 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
And every now and again, take some time off, because you're not fighting alone, even if it feels like it. Take some comfort in knowing that there is a country full of angry, active people, all moving in the same direction, more or less, so you can take some time, if you have the luxury of time, to care for yourself and your loved ones.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:29 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 11:29 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
We are not kicking off a brain drain. At the point that we are at, it's a matter of when we lose that talent, not "we could" lose it.
Absolutely. You are absolutely right. And it's not just university/national lab scientists that will take the hit, it's administrators, support staff, grant writers, a whole economy of support for universities. I'm trying to take heart in realizing we're not alone, and that this directly threatens people with far greater political power than us across every. single. state. Provosts, presidents, regents, state legislators with major universities in their districts.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:29 AM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Absolutely. You are absolutely right. And it's not just university/national lab scientists that will take the hit, it's administrators, support staff, grant writers, a whole economy of support for universities. I'm trying to take heart in realizing we're not alone, and that this directly threatens people with far greater political power than us across every. single. state. Provosts, presidents, regents, state legislators with major universities in their districts.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:29 AM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
I know multiple scientists who are already making plans to leave in the next few years, as soon as they can do so without irreparably damaging their careers, and sooner if they decide they need to. One of them is an Iranian-American scientist who was first author on a Science paper during her dissertation; a Science paper, no less, on the epigenetics of neurological variation within individuals.
I am looking at the potential of leaving. We are not kicking off a brain drain. At the point that we are at, it's a matter of when we lose that talent, not "we could" lose it.
It's the same with Brexit and science departments here. So in terms of relaxed Western countries that don't instantly shun foreigners to the extent that they don't want to be there, that's the EU and Canada? I know Cambridge and Oxford are frantically building up campus sites on within the EU, so maybe some of the New England colleges will suddenly obtain some Canadian real estate.
posted by jaduncan at 11:31 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am looking at the potential of leaving. We are not kicking off a brain drain. At the point that we are at, it's a matter of when we lose that talent, not "we could" lose it.
It's the same with Brexit and science departments here. So in terms of relaxed Western countries that don't instantly shun foreigners to the extent that they don't want to be there, that's the EU and Canada? I know Cambridge and Oxford are frantically building up campus sites on within the EU, so maybe some of the New England colleges will suddenly obtain some Canadian real estate.
posted by jaduncan at 11:31 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I could use my ugly spikes and massive slab-like hands to crush the buildings that those money-worshiping death cultists use to enact their agendas...
Hey now, let's not make the historic buildings collateral damage.
posted by Preserver at 11:33 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hey now, let's not make the historic buildings collateral damage.
posted by Preserver at 11:33 AM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
And every now and again, take some time off, because you're not fighting alone, even if it feels like it. Take some comfort in knowing that there is a country full of angry, active people, all moving in the same direction, more or less, so you can take some time, if you have the luxury of time, to care for yourself and your loved ones.
Quoted for motherfucking truth.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Quoted for motherfucking truth.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
...welcome to my hell being the son of 2 rabid Trump supporting lifelong (retired now, full pensions +healthcare) national lab physicists. Burn that ladder, assholes.
posted by H. Roark at 11:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by H. Roark at 11:37 AM on March 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
filthy light thief: Take some comfort in knowing that there is a country full of angry, active people, all moving in the same direction, more or less
Not just one country.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:40 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Not just one country.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:40 AM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm very much getting the sense that Spicer saw the Intelligence Committee statement about wiretapping and is hiding in the steam pipe trunk distribution venue instead of doing the briefing (he's 45 minutes late).
posted by zachlipton at 11:46 AM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:46 AM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
Fuck that guy and his bullshit.
posted by Artw at 11:48 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:48 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm very much getting the sense that Spicer saw the Intelligence Committee statement about wiretapping and is hiding in the steam pipe trunk distribution venue instead of doing the briefing (he's 45 minutes late).
Yes, in my business we call this an "interesting rhetorical situation." The guy on MSBNC just referred to it as "The White House has a lot of 'splainin' to do."
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:48 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes, in my business we call this an "interesting rhetorical situation." The guy on MSBNC just referred to it as "The White House has a lot of 'splainin' to do."
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:48 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe Spicer skipped town. That's what I would do at this point.
posted by lydhre at 11:48 AM on March 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 11:48 AM on March 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
the only way to force this Hitler out currently, short of assassination, is for the legislative body controlled by Republicans to do so. And for them to do so, they need to feel like it will be safe to do so
Or, as with my Tea Party reference, for enough Democrats to be elected in 2018 that they either do it on their own, or enough other Republicans feel it isn't safe to their careers to do anything but join them in opposition.
Congress is meant to be a check on the President, and it's a betrayal of American principles that the Republican Party is enabling, not opposing, Trump. I'm not terribly concerned about their feelings.
posted by Gelatin at 11:50 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Or, as with my Tea Party reference, for enough Democrats to be elected in 2018 that they either do it on their own, or enough other Republicans feel it isn't safe to their careers to do anything but join them in opposition.
Congress is meant to be a check on the President, and it's a betrayal of American principles that the Republican Party is enabling, not opposing, Trump. I'm not terribly concerned about their feelings.
posted by Gelatin at 11:50 AM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
They should use this time to lay shit out like it is, wether or not the spinner idiot shows up.
posted by Artw at 11:51 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:51 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I imagine Sean Spicer sorting out his ethical dilemmas by discussing them with the massive gum bezoar in his stomach, which is sentient and can talk in my headcanon
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:52 AM on March 16, 2017 [51 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:52 AM on March 16, 2017 [51 favorites]
Sorry, but if they are going to try and burn it all down then Congress has to go with it. Get them out in 2018. Chase them into the rising seas.
Zero feelings for anyone connected to him like the Seinfeld car stink.
posted by archimago at 11:53 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Zero feelings for anyone connected to him like the Seinfeld car stink.
posted by archimago at 11:53 AM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
I imagine Sean Spicer sorting out his ethical dilemmas
Objection: Assumes facts not in evidence (namely, that Sean "I'll give the scoop someone sent me to confirm to rival news outlets" Spicer has ethics).
posted by Gelatin at 11:54 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Objection: Assumes facts not in evidence (namely, that Sean "I'll give the scoop someone sent me to confirm to rival news outlets" Spicer has ethics).
posted by Gelatin at 11:54 AM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
What a lot of people don't know (including--perhaps especially--politicians, I am assuming) and what I try to tell folks as much as possible about research funding is this:
When grant funds come in, the institution immediately takes a giant chunk of that money (like, 30%--not a small amount). The university takes that money in order to pay for all the shit that needs to be in place so the the science can happen. It literally keeps the lights on in academic buildings. It pays the salary of that nice lady over in Grants Management who helps researchers meet their submission requirements (who is, by the way, a first-generation college grad with a BS in accounting from Big State U who has clawed her way into the middle class with this secure white collar job). It pays for the facilities worker to come in and fix the loud steampipe that's driving the postdocs nuts while they're trying to science--a worker who, by dint of being employed by the university, will be able to send her three kids to college for free. It pays for people like me: IT staff who recover the data when a scientist's laptop shits the bed. It pays for compliance officers to be around to ensure that the undergrads don't have access to the plutonium.
These are the stories that we need to be telling people. The science is vitally important and the advancement of human knowledge is vitally important but the people who don't respect that also need to know that there are vast armies of just regular people who also get paid to make science happen, indirectly. When you cut research funding, you cut the salary of the grant manager, the facilities worker, and the help desk guy or girl.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:54 AM on March 16, 2017 [85 favorites]
When grant funds come in, the institution immediately takes a giant chunk of that money (like, 30%--not a small amount). The university takes that money in order to pay for all the shit that needs to be in place so the the science can happen. It literally keeps the lights on in academic buildings. It pays the salary of that nice lady over in Grants Management who helps researchers meet their submission requirements (who is, by the way, a first-generation college grad with a BS in accounting from Big State U who has clawed her way into the middle class with this secure white collar job). It pays for the facilities worker to come in and fix the loud steampipe that's driving the postdocs nuts while they're trying to science--a worker who, by dint of being employed by the university, will be able to send her three kids to college for free. It pays for people like me: IT staff who recover the data when a scientist's laptop shits the bed. It pays for compliance officers to be around to ensure that the undergrads don't have access to the plutonium.
These are the stories that we need to be telling people. The science is vitally important and the advancement of human knowledge is vitally important but the people who don't respect that also need to know that there are vast armies of just regular people who also get paid to make science happen, indirectly. When you cut research funding, you cut the salary of the grant manager, the facilities worker, and the help desk guy or girl.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:54 AM on March 16, 2017 [85 favorites]
NBC: NYPD Commissioner O'Neill says training for bomb squad, active shooter training, and intel analysts all could be cut with new fed budget
So that's nice.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:56 AM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
So that's nice.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:56 AM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Objection: Assumes facts not in evidence (namely, that Sean "I'll give the scoop someone sent me to confirm to rival news outlets" Spicer has ethics).
One of the smarter things he's done actually, even if evil. It means people are less likely to confirm with the White House, and then he'll jump up and down talking about fake news and complaining that nobody checked with the WH before breaking the story. So, so much much like an abusive relationship.
posted by jaduncan at 11:57 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
One of the smarter things he's done actually, even if evil. It means people are less likely to confirm with the White House, and then he'll jump up and down talking about fake news and complaining that nobody checked with the WH before breaking the story. So, so much much like an abusive relationship.
posted by jaduncan at 11:57 AM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yeah, I have the weird cognitive dissonance of fucking hating Spicey but still sympathizing with him enough to think, "Bro, why are you doing this to yourself? No job is worth this amount of shit-eating. Move on, dude."
And that's the thing about "liberal hate." When lefties hate our political adversaries, we usually still want them to have, you know, healthcare, voting rights, safe neighborhoods, reproductive freedom, the ability to refrain from getting gay-married if that's how they roll, etc., etc., etc. I mean, walk around wearing a blinking nativity scene on your head if you want. You just can't put one on the city hall lawn. If that makes me Pol Pot, oh well.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:58 AM on March 16, 2017 [48 favorites]
And that's the thing about "liberal hate." When lefties hate our political adversaries, we usually still want them to have, you know, healthcare, voting rights, safe neighborhoods, reproductive freedom, the ability to refrain from getting gay-married if that's how they roll, etc., etc., etc. I mean, walk around wearing a blinking nativity scene on your head if you want. You just can't put one on the city hall lawn. If that makes me Pol Pot, oh well.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:58 AM on March 16, 2017 [48 favorites]
Oh, man, I wish I could make an FPP just on this: Here are the times Sesame Street Roasted Donald Trump
posted by Mchelly at 11:59 AM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 11:59 AM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
walk around wearing a blinking nativity scene on your head if you want
Or roll like the Lubavitchers with a menorah on your car!
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:01 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Or roll like the Lubavitchers with a menorah on your car!
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:01 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't even fucking want to leave science. I want my PhD, I want those fucking letters after my name and I want to get through and graduate, but I'm so--I'm so tired, and this job, this phase of my career wouldn't be easy even if my nation was just ignoring me instead of actively trying to fuck me over harder; I'm trying to mine knowledge from nothing and that hits roadblocks and it fucking sucks when a goddamn PhD is the soothing replenishing constant in my life! [...] And all anyone around me can do--all I can do for myself--is wince and say "I'm sorry" or "your mental health does not look great" or "have you considered therapy?" and yes I am doing all of these things I have SSRIs and a biweekly appointment with my therapist! If I'm this obviously crazy that just makes me more frustrated because I am trying to not let it all seep through the cracks, I really fucking am. But it's like. The shit that is making me crazy and angry and unbalanced isn't in my head, it's by and large not actually in my personal control, if I am not very careful indeed it's going to fuck me over, and just--
I am not sure I could cosign this any harder without breaking my keyboard.
I think what will happen is that Trump's budget is garbage and will never pass. I think we'll get a bad budget with social services cuts, but not an apocalyptic one.
I mean, yes, that's likely to be true. But the problem is that with the framing of this budget, any Republican who wants to retain funding for one of the eliminated or worst-hit programs will have to actively advocate for that program, and for higher levels of government funding as a principle. Unlike budgets under Obama or even Bush, they can't just say "sure, as a Republican, I believe we should cut expenses, but not quite as much as the Freedom Caucus says, because some of my constituents benefit from this program." Actively fighting to retain a program/department requires more spine, and no one has accused recent Republicans of being too willing to defend non-military government spending. And even a more "moderate" version of this budget will be staggeringly awful for so many aspects of our country!
I'm genuinely curious - with the NIH/NSF/DOE cuts, does the (R) collective think the fundamental research with no clear path to sales/profit will move to corporations, or do they see it as having zero value whatsoever? The whole thing is very odd to me. A lot of big business R&D is subsidized by cherrypicking work/researchers from the grants that do pan out (pharma prime example but many others too).
My lab was debating this earlier, and it is in fact frankly sort of bizarre, unless they do indeed believe that most basic research is a waste of money (see the periodic crusades to publicly shame "bad" grants), and unless they do indeed believe that if government would just get out of the way, industry would carry out all the necessary basic research. I mean, that seems pretty obviously incorrect to me, but I'm sure Republicans would dismiss me as biased, what with me having been in academic science for the past decade and a half...
posted by ubersturm at 12:03 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
I am not sure I could cosign this any harder without breaking my keyboard.
I think what will happen is that Trump's budget is garbage and will never pass. I think we'll get a bad budget with social services cuts, but not an apocalyptic one.
I mean, yes, that's likely to be true. But the problem is that with the framing of this budget, any Republican who wants to retain funding for one of the eliminated or worst-hit programs will have to actively advocate for that program, and for higher levels of government funding as a principle. Unlike budgets under Obama or even Bush, they can't just say "sure, as a Republican, I believe we should cut expenses, but not quite as much as the Freedom Caucus says, because some of my constituents benefit from this program." Actively fighting to retain a program/department requires more spine, and no one has accused recent Republicans of being too willing to defend non-military government spending. And even a more "moderate" version of this budget will be staggeringly awful for so many aspects of our country!
I'm genuinely curious - with the NIH/NSF/DOE cuts, does the (R) collective think the fundamental research with no clear path to sales/profit will move to corporations, or do they see it as having zero value whatsoever? The whole thing is very odd to me. A lot of big business R&D is subsidized by cherrypicking work/researchers from the grants that do pan out (pharma prime example but many others too).
My lab was debating this earlier, and it is in fact frankly sort of bizarre, unless they do indeed believe that most basic research is a waste of money (see the periodic crusades to publicly shame "bad" grants), and unless they do indeed believe that if government would just get out of the way, industry would carry out all the necessary basic research. I mean, that seems pretty obviously incorrect to me, but I'm sure Republicans would dismiss me as biased, what with me having been in academic science for the past decade and a half...
posted by ubersturm at 12:03 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Sean is alive!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:04 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:04 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Spicy Boyfriend made it
posted by theodolite at 12:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 12:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
walk around wearing a blinking nativity scene on your head if you want
Or roll like the Lubavitchers with a menorah on your car!
To say nothing of their pedi-sukkahs.
posted by Mchelly at 12:07 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Or roll like the Lubavitchers with a menorah on your car!
To say nothing of their pedi-sukkahs.
posted by Mchelly at 12:07 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
And that's the thing about "liberal hate." When lefties hate our political adversaries, we usually still want them to have, you know, healthcare, voting rights, safe neighborhoods, reproductive freedom, the ability to refrain from getting gay-married if that's how they roll, etc., etc., etc.
A close friend just shared on Facebook an article about how many of Trump's supporters are likely to lose health care under the Republican plan, and are feeling anxious. And she posted some sympathetic words about how hard that was for her to read, even after they voted this monster into office against nearly every small-d democratic principle one could care to name.
That's the difference, isn't it? How many Republicans, other than corb, look at this budget and think "it's too bad all those scientists and artists and railroad workers will lose their livelihoods" and not "sweet, sweet liberal tears"? As someone observed upthread, the budget is meant to signal that priorities perceived as liberal are getting it in the shorts, no matter what their actual value is.
posted by Gelatin at 12:10 PM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
A close friend just shared on Facebook an article about how many of Trump's supporters are likely to lose health care under the Republican plan, and are feeling anxious. And she posted some sympathetic words about how hard that was for her to read, even after they voted this monster into office against nearly every small-d democratic principle one could care to name.
That's the difference, isn't it? How many Republicans, other than corb, look at this budget and think "it's too bad all those scientists and artists and railroad workers will lose their livelihoods" and not "sweet, sweet liberal tears"? As someone observed upthread, the budget is meant to signal that priorities perceived as liberal are getting it in the shorts, no matter what their actual value is.
posted by Gelatin at 12:10 PM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Sean Spicer is again reading what he believes to be the justification for Trump imposing whatever immigration sanctions that he wants.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:12 PM on March 16, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:12 PM on March 16, 2017
Sean Spicer is again reading what he believes to be the justification for Trump imposing whatever immigration sanctions that he wants.
How likely is that statement to be used as a direct citation in a future court decision striking said sanctions down?
posted by Gelatin at 12:14 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
How likely is that statement to be used as a direct citation in a future court decision striking said sanctions down?
posted by Gelatin at 12:14 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's not a good sign for the healthcare bill when the Press Secretary keeps getting the acronym wrong. People actually interested in selling legislation usually know what it's called.
posted by zachlipton at 12:15 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:15 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mulvaney calls out the NYT for misgendering his sons. The irony is lost on these people. I hate them.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:19 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:19 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
A thought, on de-Nazifying anything - Eisenhower, on learning of the concentration camps, did everything in his power to make sure everyone knew of the atrocities and that they could not be denied or forgotten. Something to remember when the history of our current era is being made.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:21 PM on March 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:21 PM on March 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
And every now and again, take some time off, because you're not fighting alone, even if it feels like it. Take some comfort in knowing that there is a country full of angry, active people, all moving in the same direction, more or less, so you can take some time, if you have the luxury of time, to care for yourself and your loved ones.
Yes, please take as much time as you need. I feel like this is an extended grieving process, and I'm trying to adjust to the idea that the despair will come in waves. One thing I found helpful and comforting was something my husband sent to me about geese formations (all points good, but this resonated with me):
posted by orbit-3 at 12:21 PM on March 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
Yes, please take as much time as you need. I feel like this is an extended grieving process, and I'm trying to adjust to the idea that the despair will come in waves. One thing I found helpful and comforting was something my husband sent to me about geese formations (all points good, but this resonated with me):
"When the goose flying in the front of the formation has to expend the most energy because it is the first to break up the flow of air that provides the additional lift for all of the geese who follow behind the leader. Consequently, when the lead goose gets tired, it drops out of the front position and moves to the rear of the formation, where the resistance is lightest, and another goose moves to the leadership position. This rotation of position happens many times in the course of the long journey to warmer climates. When a team is functioning well, various members of the team may take the leadership role for a while because of a particular expertise or experience. Consequently, on good teams, everyone has the opportunity to serve as a leader as well as a follower."You don't have to take this all on alone. Neither of us does. Thank you all for being here. I know you've helped me through my own waves of despair.
posted by orbit-3 at 12:21 PM on March 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
"And that's the thing about "liberal hate." When lefties hate our political adversaries, we usually still want them to have, you know, healthcare, voting rights, safe neighborhoods, reproductive freedom, the ability to refrain from getting gay-married if that's how they roll, etc., etc., etc. I mean, walk around wearing a blinking nativity scene on your head if you want. You just can't put one on the city hall lawn. If that makes me Pol Pot, oh well."
You're nicer than me. I hope Sean Spicer gets the point of not wanting to show his face in public because of his extreme shame and nervousness. Again, he's part of an administration openly and explicitly attempting to make people hate their lives so much they flee the country. He bears responsibility for that, because he's one of the main salespeople.
In allegedly unrelated "Gambling? I'm shocked!" news, it would appear that there are not entirely obviously fake news claims that Gorka is actually a sworn member of a Nazi/pro-Horthy Hungarian nationalist group. Tl;dr: wore their medal in public, took on an initial that indicates membership of the group, admits his father was in it, refuses all comment or denial on the matter after previously being the type to ring up and berate journalists for any negative comments.
posted by jaduncan at 12:22 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
You're nicer than me. I hope Sean Spicer gets the point of not wanting to show his face in public because of his extreme shame and nervousness. Again, he's part of an administration openly and explicitly attempting to make people hate their lives so much they flee the country. He bears responsibility for that, because he's one of the main salespeople.
In allegedly unrelated "Gambling? I'm shocked!" news, it would appear that there are not entirely obviously fake news claims that Gorka is actually a sworn member of a Nazi/pro-Horthy Hungarian nationalist group. Tl;dr: wore their medal in public, took on an initial that indicates membership of the group, admits his father was in it, refuses all comment or denial on the matter after previously being the type to ring up and berate journalists for any negative comments.
posted by jaduncan at 12:22 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
the massive gum bezoar in his stomach, which is sentient and can talk in my headcanon
Are we sure that the gum-bezoar isn't controlling him, much like Krang from TMNT?
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:27 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Are we sure that the gum-bezoar isn't controlling him, much like Krang from TMNT?
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:27 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Steelworkers in Ohio, single mothers of 2 in Detroit, coal miners shouldn't have to pay for CPB or NEA
- Mulvaney
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:27 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
- Mulvaney
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:27 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mulvaney was just asked if he's concerned that cutting foreign aid will harm some of the most vulnerable people in the world, who according to a new report, are facing severe famine and humanitarian crises. His answer, basically, was no: Trump said over and over that we're spending less money on people overseas and that's what we're going to do.
As Mulvaney speaks, note that he said this morning (and is saying a variation right now) that we can't ask coal miners or single moms to pay for PBS. The founding purpose of Sesame Street was precisely to provide educational opportunities for, say, the child of a single mom in an inner-city. Single moms like PBS.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on March 16, 2017 [50 favorites]
As Mulvaney speaks, note that he said this morning (and is saying a variation right now) that we can't ask coal miners or single moms to pay for PBS. The founding purpose of Sesame Street was precisely to provide educational opportunities for, say, the child of a single mom in an inner-city. Single moms like PBS.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on March 16, 2017 [50 favorites]
Yeah, I have the weird cognitive dissonance of fucking hating Spicey but still sympathizing with him enough to think, "Bro, why are you doing this to yourself? No job is worth this amount of shit-eating. Move on, dude."so i was talking to my wife about this last night.. Spicey has an interesting job since he doesn't need his own opinions to do his job; he's just a mouthpiece. and i was postulating that perhaps he's playing a long game where he does this gig for awhile, and then when the administration is done and gone writes a memoir about all the shit he saw.
but then we decided that's a really long game to be playing.
posted by osi at 12:29 PM on March 16, 2017
To be honest, I mostly don't wish destruction on Trump voters out of a realistic sense that violence is hard to contain and that bad things that happen to Trump voters will also happen to innocent people around them (like their kids).
If a precision-guided bolt of Ironic Justice that did not hurt any innocents was a real thing, I'd probably be severely tempted to hope for it.
But since it doesn't exist, this is not a moral dilemma I ever have to grapple with.
I think one of the problems Trump voters face is that they don't understand this. They believe that Trump can in fact govern surgically in a way that only harms the people they hate, never them.
posted by emjaybee at 12:31 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
If a precision-guided bolt of Ironic Justice that did not hurt any innocents was a real thing, I'd probably be severely tempted to hope for it.
But since it doesn't exist, this is not a moral dilemma I ever have to grapple with.
I think one of the problems Trump voters face is that they don't understand this. They believe that Trump can in fact govern surgically in a way that only harms the people they hate, never them.
posted by emjaybee at 12:31 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Peter Alexander asks Mulvaney about Meals and Wheels defunding citing specific MoW programs that he's talked to saying that X number of seniors will not be fed. Mulvaney says it's not a federal program and it doesn't work.
Same thing re after school programs -- "can't prove they work."
posted by melissasaurus at 12:32 PM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Same thing re after school programs -- "can't prove they work."
posted by melissasaurus at 12:32 PM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Steelworkers in Ohio, single mothers of 2 in Detroit, coal miners shouldn't have to pay for CPB or NEA
- Mulvaney
Should they have to pay a bit more than that to guard Trump Tower? Asking for a vaguely sane friend.
posted by jaduncan at 12:32 PM on March 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
"A thought, on de-Nazifying anything - Eisenhower, on learning of the concentration camps, did everything in his power to make sure everyone knew of the atrocities and that they could not be denied or forgotten."
Don't worry, I'm keeping a log. It's in a Wordperfect file on a 3.5" floppy.
posted by klarck at 12:32 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Don't worry, I'm keeping a log. It's in a Wordperfect file on a 3.5" floppy.
posted by klarck at 12:32 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Spicer is essentially the Mouth of Sauron, so I'm not exactly worrying about his future job prospects after his boss is vanquished.
posted by lydhre at 12:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 12:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Steelworkers in Ohio, single mothers of 2 in Detroit, coal miners shouldn't have to pay for CPB or NEA
- Mulvaney
They're paying somewhere between 20 and 60 cents in taxes per year: A coal miner’s plight: Paying for public broadcasting is less than a dollar of his taxes.
posted by peeedro at 12:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
- Mulvaney
They're paying somewhere between 20 and 60 cents in taxes per year: A coal miner’s plight: Paying for public broadcasting is less than a dollar of his taxes.
posted by peeedro at 12:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [30 favorites]
The founding purpose of Sesame Street was precisely to provide educational opportunities for, say, the child of a single mom in an inner-city. Single moms like PBS.
Of course. But we all know that coal miners like nothing more than to stare at buckets of coal when they get home.
The bleakness and cynicism of the vision is what aches. The whole point of being a rich developed nation is that you are allowed to have nice things for everybody. This budget is the vision of a shit Sparta.
posted by holgate at 12:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
Of course. But we all know that coal miners like nothing more than to stare at buckets of coal when they get home.
The bleakness and cynicism of the vision is what aches. The whole point of being a rich developed nation is that you are allowed to have nice things for everybody. This budget is the vision of a shit Sparta.
posted by holgate at 12:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
Feeding kids in after school programs who wouldn't otherwise have food doesn't help them do better academically.
- Mulvaney
lol [citation needed]
My wife works at a school in a very poor part of Milwaukee and she'd love to see summer break gone, if for no other reason than kids would have regular meals.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
- Mulvaney
lol [citation needed]
My wife works at a school in a very poor part of Milwaukee and she'd love to see summer break gone, if for no other reason than kids would have regular meals.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
I haven't decided if my feelings should be defined as "hate" or not—I don't know the proper definition. I'm fighting mad at the people running our government, and at the people who support/enable them. But there's generally no amount of anger I hold for anyone that allows me to abdicate my moral compass. Like, whatever you've done, it still doesn't make it okay for someone to, say, assault a family member, or burn down your house. I still don't wish calamity upon you, per se. I don't wish that upon anyone. Which, at the end of the day, is a lot more about me, and what I think it means to be a good person.
I really love the simplicity and profundity of the Golden Rule. I wish it could be hard-wired into every human being's psyche.
posted by Brak at 12:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
I really love the simplicity and profundity of the Golden Rule. I wish it could be hard-wired into every human being's psyche.
posted by Brak at 12:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mulvaney is saying that it's compassionate to eliminate meals on wheels because it's hard to ask coal miners to fund things with no demonstrable benefit. Will someone please ask him how Trump justifies spending those dollars (54 billion of them) on the military?
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Wow, it took me literally 15 seconds to find a study saying Meals on Wheels keeps the elderly out of nursing homes and off Medicaid. Here.
posted by suelac at 12:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by suelac at 12:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [56 favorites]
Steelworkers in Ohio, single mothers of 2 in Detroit, coal miners shouldn't have to pay for CPB or NEA
- Mulvaney
Well, that's mighty elitist, to suggest that steelworkers, Detroit residents, and coal miners don't appreciate art. Or have kids that watch public television.
It's also disingenuous, of course, not only because CPB and NEA are a tiny reaction of the Federal budget, not only because "coastal liberal elites" pay for all kinds of Republican priorities too, but also because the lower-income people on whose behalf Mulvaney sheds crocodile tears pay a vastly smaller amount of Federal income tax compared to, say, the wealthy.
posted by Gelatin at 12:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
- Mulvaney
Well, that's mighty elitist, to suggest that steelworkers, Detroit residents, and coal miners don't appreciate art. Or have kids that watch public television.
It's also disingenuous, of course, not only because CPB and NEA are a tiny reaction of the Federal budget, not only because "coastal liberal elites" pay for all kinds of Republican priorities too, but also because the lower-income people on whose behalf Mulvaney sheds crocodile tears pay a vastly smaller amount of Federal income tax compared to, say, the wealthy.
posted by Gelatin at 12:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
They're paying somewhere between 20 and 60 cents in taxes per year
hey, that's a lot of money to romanticized mythological Americans
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
hey, that's a lot of money to romanticized mythological Americans
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Hell, ask him how Trump justifies spending those dollars taking weekly golf vacations.
posted by IAmUnaware at 12:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by IAmUnaware at 12:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
If you cut the after school program, what is the Detroit single mother supposed to do with her two kids? Let them walk the streets?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:37 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:37 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
i was postulating that perhaps he's playing a long game where he does this gig for awhile, and then when the administration is done and gone writes a memoir about all the shit he saw.
but then we decided that's a really long game to be playing.
Not that long. Four years. Maybe less.
posted by Gelatin at 12:37 PM on March 16, 2017
but then we decided that's a really long game to be playing.
Not that long. Four years. Maybe less.
posted by Gelatin at 12:37 PM on March 16, 2017
My wife works in school in a very poor part of Milwaukee and she'd love to see summer break gone, if for no other reason than kids would have regular meals.
City of Albany, New York has a program where during the summer, those meals still get served.
FWIW, I'm like some sort of communist because I think we should use school kitchens as PUBLIC KITCHENS and serve a dinner meal for all comers. *I* want MY tax dollars going to things like feeding hungry people.
But, I understand that there are all sorts of issues with this. Still, I don't want people going hungry.
posted by mikelieman at 12:38 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
City of Albany, New York has a program where during the summer, those meals still get served.
FWIW, I'm like some sort of communist because I think we should use school kitchens as PUBLIC KITCHENS and serve a dinner meal for all comers. *I* want MY tax dollars going to things like feeding hungry people.
But, I understand that there are all sorts of issues with this. Still, I don't want people going hungry.
posted by mikelieman at 12:38 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
I hate them. It's another thing to hate them for--making me feel this.
I DO hope for a precision-guided bolt of ironic justice, but I recognize it's not within our mortal wheelhouse. I really, really want one though. Like a lot.
And if there is one day a program where you can sign up to punch one of these criminals in the face during their prison term, I will sign up every day and twice on Sundays.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:39 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
I DO hope for a precision-guided bolt of ironic justice, but I recognize it's not within our mortal wheelhouse. I really, really want one though. Like a lot.
And if there is one day a program where you can sign up to punch one of these criminals in the face during their prison term, I will sign up every day and twice on Sundays.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:39 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
If you cut the after school program, what is the Detroit single mother supposed to do with her two kids? Let them walk the streets?
That's the beauty of this bullshit. Of course a West Virginia coal worker doesn't want the government to spend money on Meals on Wheels. Just like a housebound senior doesn't want the government to spend money on afterschool programs. Just like that single mother doesn't want the government to spend money on job retraining in Appalachia. Everyone gets a veto. It's really the perfect form of government, if you hate government.
posted by Etrigan at 12:39 PM on March 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
That's the beauty of this bullshit. Of course a West Virginia coal worker doesn't want the government to spend money on Meals on Wheels. Just like a housebound senior doesn't want the government to spend money on afterschool programs. Just like that single mother doesn't want the government to spend money on job retraining in Appalachia. Everyone gets a veto. It's really the perfect form of government, if you hate government.
posted by Etrigan at 12:39 PM on March 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
Mulvaney on Climate Change: “We’re not spending money on that anymore. We consider that to be a waste of your money.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:40 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:40 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mulvaney is asked if he's playing a shell game with the budget by bragging about not increasing the deficit when they're talking about large infrastructure spending later (they are). He says the infrastructure plan will only come after healthcare and then tax changes, so maybe not until August or later.
An attitude of "we'll get around to infrastructure once we've managed to somehow completely overhaul the tax code" is not exactly one that indicates they're ever going to get there.
He's also being asked what evidence he has that Meals on Wheels doesn't do its job effectively and whether feeding seniors is in and of itself evidence of effectiveness. He says states decide where the block grants go and the feds just look at the big number and see no evidence it's getting results.
posted by zachlipton at 12:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
An attitude of "we'll get around to infrastructure once we've managed to somehow completely overhaul the tax code" is not exactly one that indicates they're ever going to get there.
He's also being asked what evidence he has that Meals on Wheels doesn't do its job effectively and whether feeding seniors is in and of itself evidence of effectiveness. He says states decide where the block grants go and the feds just look at the big number and see no evidence it's getting results.
posted by zachlipton at 12:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mulvaney on Climate Change: “We’re not spending money on that anymore. We consider that to be a waste of your money.”
FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE.
posted by lydhre at 12:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE.
posted by lydhre at 12:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
Mod note: One comment deleted, in the name of avoiding a long predictable "everybody vs corb" reactionfest.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
single mothers of 2 in Detroit, coal miners shouldn't have to pay for CPB or NEA
Wanna bet that those single mothers *like* PBS over broadcast TV, since they have 2 kids to entertain...
posted by mikelieman at 12:42 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wanna bet that those single mothers *like* PBS over broadcast TV, since they have 2 kids to entertain...
posted by mikelieman at 12:42 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Spicer comin in HOT
posted by theodolite at 12:42 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 12:42 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ooh, Spicer is mad today. He's fighting with reporters for not covering people saying there "might" have been surveillance, but covering it when the Intelligence Committee says there's "no evidence."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:43 PM on March 16, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:43 PM on March 16, 2017
god bless those of you who are able to watch Spicer live. I still can't do it.
posted by corb at 12:43 PM on March 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by corb at 12:43 PM on March 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
Spicer's response to the Senate Intelligence Committee's wiretapping statement is to literally yell at the press that they're covering it wrong.
posted by zachlipton at 12:43 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:43 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Words don't mean things, the truth can't be known, how come Jon Karl just waits for the committee report instead of reporting when people say things are "very possible"?
-Spicer
[first two clauses mostly fake, last clause real]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:43 PM on March 16, 2017
-Spicer
[first two clauses mostly fake, last clause real]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:43 PM on March 16, 2017
Trump’s three Mar-a-Lago trips since the inauguration have probably cost the federal treasury about $10 million, based on figures used in an October government report analyzing White House travel...
In New York, the city is paying $500,000 a day to guard Trump Tower, according to police officials’ estimates, an amount that could reach $183 million a year.
This month, The Post reported that Secret Service and U.S. Embassy staffers paid nearly $100,000 in hotel-room bills to support Eric Trump’s trip to promote a Trump-brand condo tower in Uruguay.
Those coal miners and single moms are really getting bang for their buck out of this guy. Maybe somebody who's not already infuriated past the point of reason should extrapolate four years of Trump vacation costs and compare them to the costs of some of the agencies that we mustn't ask coal miners to pay for, out of concern for their financial well-being.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [65 favorites]
In New York, the city is paying $500,000 a day to guard Trump Tower, according to police officials’ estimates, an amount that could reach $183 million a year.
This month, The Post reported that Secret Service and U.S. Embassy staffers paid nearly $100,000 in hotel-room bills to support Eric Trump’s trip to promote a Trump-brand condo tower in Uruguay.
Those coal miners and single moms are really getting bang for their buck out of this guy. Maybe somebody who's not already infuriated past the point of reason should extrapolate four years of Trump vacation costs and compare them to the costs of some of the agencies that we mustn't ask coal miners to pay for, out of concern for their financial well-being.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [65 favorites]
It's just fundamentally weird to me that Spicer and Ryan and the rest of these people who want to strip government funding must have learned something about the Great Depression and the widespread suffering that occurs in the absence of a safety net.
It's just, like, when in their lives did they come to the consensus that more suffering is better? They're my age, they went to school.
It's like, I can see some sneaky thing where it's like oops nobody noticed that evil rider that defunds Meals on Wheels, but like bragging about it? WTF
posted by angrycat at 12:45 PM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's just, like, when in their lives did they come to the consensus that more suffering is better? They're my age, they went to school.
It's like, I can see some sneaky thing where it's like oops nobody noticed that evil rider that defunds Meals on Wheels, but like bragging about it? WTF
posted by angrycat at 12:45 PM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
This shit is pure evil. That's the only applicable word. Ending Meals on Wheels and school lunch to give even more tax cuts to millionaires is not just garden variety, haha Republicans are Nazis amirite? level of exaggerated political rhetoric. It's comic book, cartoonish evil.
Everything they do is driven by spite. Hatred in turn is an appropriate and rational response.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:45 PM on March 16, 2017 [45 favorites]
Everything they do is driven by spite. Hatred in turn is an appropriate and rational response.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:45 PM on March 16, 2017 [45 favorites]
Spicer is reading press reports about alleged FISA warrants that Trump himself could unilaterally declassify and make public
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:46 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:46 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Now we know why the briefing was so late. Spicer was apparently googling up a long list of news stories about how members of the Trump campaign was the subject of a counter-intelligence investigation. He's reading them all, at really incredible length.
Yes, to defend the President's idiotic tweets, he's going on and on about all the stories about how they're under investigation. What is this? Who defends themselves by talking about how everyone is investigating themselves for wrongdoing? What kind of strategy is this?
posted by zachlipton at 12:48 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yes, to defend the President's idiotic tweets, he's going on and on about all the stories about how they're under investigation. What is this? Who defends themselves by talking about how everyone is investigating themselves for wrongdoing? What kind of strategy is this?
posted by zachlipton at 12:48 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
"What an unexpected question! I just happen to have jotted down a few reams of notes on that exact topic..."
posted by uosuaq at 12:50 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 12:50 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe somebody who's not already infuriated past the point of reason should extrapolate four years of Trump vacation costs and compare them to the costs of some of the agencies that we mustn't ask coal miners to pay for, out of concern for their financial well-being.
But you see, the transfer of wealth from the peons to the wealthy is just the natural order of things.
posted by Gelatin at 12:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
But you see, the transfer of wealth from the peons to the wealthy is just the natural order of things.
posted by Gelatin at 12:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Spicey's just trying to run out the clock. I'm sure he's going to wrap this up by saying sorry, we're out of time for more questions.
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:51 PM on March 16, 2017
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:51 PM on March 16, 2017
I've never watched one of these live before. Does Spicer think that if he keeps reading really really fast endlessly eventually everyone will get bored and give up and leave?
posted by instead of three wishes at 12:51 PM on March 16, 2017
posted by instead of three wishes at 12:51 PM on March 16, 2017
What kind of strategy is this?
Damn it! He's using the Chewbacca defense!
posted by Etrigan at 12:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Damn it! He's using the Chewbacca defense!
posted by Etrigan at 12:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
I haven't decided if my feelings should be defined as "hate" or not—I don't know the proper definition. I'm fighting mad at the people running our government, and at the people who support/enable them. But there's generally no amount of anger I hold for anyone that allows me to abdicate my moral compass. Like, whatever you've done, it still doesn't make it okay for someone to, say, assault a family member, or burn down your house. I still don't wish calamity upon you, per se. I don't wish that upon anyone. Which, at the end of the day, is a lot more about me, and what I think it means to be a good person.
Interesting. Wouldn't that mean no violent revolution could ever be justified? I mean, personally, I don't have a problem with someone burning down a few buildings to make a point. I'm not going to hate Nelson Mandela for having blown up a post office of a regime that was killing black people pretty much as they wished. I can't imagine myself crying for the now burnt down home of a slaver. I don't have a problem with the fact that for some reason Mussolini ended up on a lamppost. All of those people and things were affected to prevent a greater evil.
I never have a problem knowing what I'd do with the trolley problem dilemma, though. YMMV, although I'd be really curious to know what situation - if any - you do think that force is justified in resistance.
posted by jaduncan at 12:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Interesting. Wouldn't that mean no violent revolution could ever be justified? I mean, personally, I don't have a problem with someone burning down a few buildings to make a point. I'm not going to hate Nelson Mandela for having blown up a post office of a regime that was killing black people pretty much as they wished. I can't imagine myself crying for the now burnt down home of a slaver. I don't have a problem with the fact that for some reason Mussolini ended up on a lamppost. All of those people and things were affected to prevent a greater evil.
I never have a problem knowing what I'd do with the trolley problem dilemma, though. YMMV, although I'd be really curious to know what situation - if any - you do think that force is justified in resistance.
posted by jaduncan at 12:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maggie Haberman is pretty upset (she's made this point before) that Spicer is now citing articles the White House has previously denounced.
Previously, they condemned these articles as fake news, because they didn't want to be seen as the subjects of a counter-intelligence investigation. Now, they're citing them as accurate because they want to defend the damn tweets.
posted by zachlipton at 12:52 PM on March 16, 2017 [54 favorites]
Previously, they condemned these articles as fake news, because they didn't want to be seen as the subjects of a counter-intelligence investigation. Now, they're citing them as accurate because they want to defend the damn tweets.
posted by zachlipton at 12:52 PM on March 16, 2017 [54 favorites]
The other, slightly ungracious thing to say is "fuck miners." I don't mean that personally, but there are about 100,000 coal miners in the entire US. Invoking them as somehow a core part of the economy is myth-making bullshit.
posted by holgate at 12:53 PM on March 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by holgate at 12:53 PM on March 16, 2017 [32 favorites]
RT paid more than $45,000 for Flynn’s participation at a gala in Moscow in December 2015, during which he dined with Russian President Vladimir Putin
Same dinner (and table) that Jill Stein was at. Anyone know how much she got paid? I want it to be noticeably less.
posted by msalt at 12:54 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Same dinner (and table) that Jill Stein was at. Anyone know how much she got paid? I want it to be noticeably less.
posted by msalt at 12:54 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Steelworkers in Ohio, single mothers of 2 in Detroit, coal miners shouldn't have to pay for CPB or NEA
Sure, it's only wringing three-quarters of a million dollars in value out of their community. What would would a blue-collar worker or single parent want with public activities to take their families to, anyway? What good is a Jazz festival when you have Netflix?
Jesus wept.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 12:56 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sure, it's only wringing three-quarters of a million dollars in value out of their community. What would would a blue-collar worker or single parent want with public activities to take their families to, anyway? What good is a Jazz festival when you have Netflix?
Jesus wept.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 12:56 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
It may be worth pointing out that Amtrak's clientele generally aren't poor and aren't needy. Less than a sixth of Amtrak passengers make under $20K.
Amtrak is focused in the NE corridor, where expenses and wages are higher though. You can be just as poor living there and making $25K as someone living in a rural place where rent etc. is much cheaper.
posted by msalt at 12:56 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Amtrak is focused in the NE corridor, where expenses and wages are higher though. You can be just as poor living there and making $25K as someone living in a rural place where rent etc. is much cheaper.
posted by msalt at 12:56 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
So, this Mulvaney character. He sounds nice.
(OMFG just reading this shit I feel my gorge rising. This guy? This guy I hate.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:00 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
(OMFG just reading this shit I feel my gorge rising. This guy? This guy I hate.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:00 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Interesting. Alexis Simendinger of Real Clear Politics gets called on, asks Spicer to call on the New York Times instead (which is relevant, given that Spicer just spent an enormous amount of time mischaracterizing NYT reporting he's previously attacked). He refuses and calls on someone else, saying "I call the questions."
posted by zachlipton at 1:01 PM on March 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:01 PM on March 16, 2017 [22 favorites]
mikelieman: “Still, I don't want people going hungry.”Agreed. I used to say it more often, but my position is still: This is the goddamned United States of America. What the fuck do you mean there isn't enough to make sure nobody goes hungry?
Cf. “The Forces of Contempt,” Charles P. Pierce, Esquire, 05 September 2013
posted by ob1quixote at 1:07 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
This is the goddamned United States of America. What the fuck do you mean there isn't enough to make sure nobody goes hungry?
And Jesus said, "Take these loaves and fishes, and make sure that anyone who wants to have a bite has been looking for work in the past week, and has never smoked marijuana ever in their life, because supply side Jesus is not down with the ganja."
posted by Existential Dread at 1:09 PM on March 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
And Jesus said, "Take these loaves and fishes, and make sure that anyone who wants to have a bite has been looking for work in the past week, and has never smoked marijuana ever in their life, because supply side Jesus is not down with the ganja."
posted by Existential Dread at 1:09 PM on March 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
WTF is this Skype attendee shit? ( and such low bandwidth! sad! )
posted by mikelieman at 1:10 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mikelieman at 1:10 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Newspeak of the week: "There's this assumption in Washington that when you get less money, that's a cut"
posted by dis_integration at 1:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 1:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [29 favorites]
It's going to be a hell of a lot more than 100,000 jobs eliminated on the coal miners behalves.
posted by Artw at 1:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
you just know if we ever discover a real actual vampire, scientists will refer to it as "a real mick mulvaney type"
posted by murphy slaw at 1:13 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:13 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Spicer: "There's an assumption in Washington that if you get less money, it's a cut" (something something, more efficiencies, etc...) (video)
This is a truly crazy briefing.
posted by zachlipton at 1:13 PM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
This is a truly crazy briefing.
posted by zachlipton at 1:13 PM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
How much cocaine do we think Spicer does before he starts these briefings?
posted by dis_integration at 1:15 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dis_integration at 1:15 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Newspeak of the week: "There's this assumption in Washington that when you get less money, that's a cut"
I'm old enough to remember when Republicans defended funding increases that lagged the rate of inflation as "not a cut."
posted by Gelatin at 1:15 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm old enough to remember when Republicans defended funding increases that lagged the rate of inflation as "not a cut."
posted by Gelatin at 1:15 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Newspeak of the week: "There's this assumption in Washington that when you get less money, that's a cut"
I'm glad someone else heard that. I thought I was having a stroke.
posted by mikelieman at 1:15 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm glad someone else heard that. I thought I was having a stroke.
posted by mikelieman at 1:15 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
It'll go well with the Muslim ban that's not a ban.
posted by Talez at 1:16 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Talez at 1:16 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
>And Jesus said, "Take these loaves and fishes,
Yeah, I keep coming back to that as one of the main points of hilaritragedy about this: these people pretend that they like to ask themselves, 'What would Jesus do?' If only Jesus had provided some clear guidelines about what people should do with respect to their money and poor people. Something real simple and easy to remember.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:16 PM on March 16, 2017 [54 favorites]
Yeah, I keep coming back to that as one of the main points of hilaritragedy about this: these people pretend that they like to ask themselves, 'What would Jesus do?' If only Jesus had provided some clear guidelines about what people should do with respect to their money and poor people. Something real simple and easy to remember.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:16 PM on March 16, 2017 [54 favorites]
With Pence, Ryan and now Mulvaney (note caption and suit decoration), the GOP is showing the very worst of fiddle-de-dee plastic-paddyism this week.
posted by holgate at 1:17 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by holgate at 1:17 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
With Pence, Ryan and now Mulvaney (note caption and suit decoration), the GOP is showing the very worst of fiddle-de-dee plastic-paddyism this week.
man i'm glad my great aunt Sister Helen Gertrude Cavanaugh didn't live to see this, but if she did i think she'd have some words for these motherfuckers
posted by murphy slaw at 1:20 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
man i'm glad my great aunt Sister Helen Gertrude Cavanaugh didn't live to see this, but if she did i think she'd have some words for these motherfuckers
posted by murphy slaw at 1:20 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm still just viscerally upset by the budget outline numbers, but the thread has moved on. Let me just pull out these two bits, though:
>> Existential Dread: This has the potential to damage the fundamentals of the US economy, driving innovation and entrepreneurial activity elsewhere and kicking off a brain drain as talented scientist, engineers, and physicians head elsewhere.
> flt: EXACTLY. Pair that with the travel ban, stricter limits on immigration, rolling back regulations to make drinking water safe, it seems that people would be foolish to look to the US for an opportunity, which is then an opportunity lost for the US. I think Canada could win big with this.
Just to add - it's not that Canada could win big. At least McGill and U. Toronto (where I have colleagues) have both extended application deadlines to allow for more applications from foreign graduate students and postdocs who had already been accepted by US universities, but are worried about getting into the country. And the number of talented scientists we are about to lose, as grants run out and aren't renewed, is staggering.
This is beyond eating our seed corn. This is taking a hatchet to the tree trunk to see if a few more apples can be shaken out of the tree.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:21 PM on March 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
>> Existential Dread: This has the potential to damage the fundamentals of the US economy, driving innovation and entrepreneurial activity elsewhere and kicking off a brain drain as talented scientist, engineers, and physicians head elsewhere.
> flt: EXACTLY. Pair that with the travel ban, stricter limits on immigration, rolling back regulations to make drinking water safe, it seems that people would be foolish to look to the US for an opportunity, which is then an opportunity lost for the US. I think Canada could win big with this.
Just to add - it's not that Canada could win big. At least McGill and U. Toronto (where I have colleagues) have both extended application deadlines to allow for more applications from foreign graduate students and postdocs who had already been accepted by US universities, but are worried about getting into the country. And the number of talented scientists we are about to lose, as grants run out and aren't renewed, is staggering.
This is beyond eating our seed corn. This is taking a hatchet to the tree trunk to see if a few more apples can be shaken out of the tree.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:21 PM on March 16, 2017 [37 favorites]
And Jesus said, "Take these loaves and fishes, and make sure that anyone who wants to have a bite has been looking for work in the past week, and has never smoked marijuana ever in their life, because supply side Jesus is not down with the ganja."
"And Jesus Said Unto Paul of Ryan..."
posted by orbit-3 at 1:22 PM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
"And Jesus Said Unto Paul of Ryan..."
posted by orbit-3 at 1:22 PM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
The other, slightly ungracious thing to say is "fuck miners." I don't mean that personally, but there are about 100,000 coal miners in the entire US. Invoking them as somehow a core part of the economy is myth-making bullshit.
But every time you say "fuck miners", every miner, and everyone whose past three generations has a miner in it, and everyone who's ever watched those heartwarming shows about the Pure Heart of a Miner, and every guy who thinks of himself as a Worker With Dignity What Puts The Food/Fuel In People's Homes, is going to think, "You're saying 'fuck me'? Well, fuck you!"
And then we all die in a blazing hellfire of science and State Department cuts.
posted by corb at 1:24 PM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
But every time you say "fuck miners", every miner, and everyone whose past three generations has a miner in it, and everyone who's ever watched those heartwarming shows about the Pure Heart of a Miner, and every guy who thinks of himself as a Worker With Dignity What Puts The Food/Fuel In People's Homes, is going to think, "You're saying 'fuck me'? Well, fuck you!"
And then we all die in a blazing hellfire of science and State Department cuts.
posted by corb at 1:24 PM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
'What would Jesus do?' If only Jesus had provided some clear guidelines about what people should do with respect to their money and poor people. Something real simple and easy to remember.
So many of them seem to be Catholics, too! (I mean, Mick Mulvaney? I will eat my foot if he was not an altar boy. Oh wait, I just wikid him--he went to Catholic high school and fucking Georgetown.) As someone with a deep familiarity with rust belt ethnic Catholicism, none of this computes.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:25 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
So many of them seem to be Catholics, too! (I mean, Mick Mulvaney? I will eat my foot if he was not an altar boy. Oh wait, I just wikid him--he went to Catholic high school and fucking Georgetown.) As someone with a deep familiarity with rust belt ethnic Catholicism, none of this computes.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:25 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Interesting. Alexis Simendinger of Real Clear Politics gets called on, asks Spicer to call on the New York Times instead (which is relevant, given that Spicer just spent an enormous amount of time mischaracterizing NYT reporting he's previously attacked). He refuses and calls on someone else, saying "I call the questions."
In a few months all the reporters will have their own slack channel where they coordinate their attacks.
I hope they gaslight the hell out of him as a bonus.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:27 PM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
In a few months all the reporters will have their own slack channel where they coordinate their attacks.
I hope they gaslight the hell out of him as a bonus.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:27 PM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
But every time you say "fuck miners", every miner, and everyone whose past three generations has a miner in it, and everyone who's ever watched those heartwarming shows about the Pure Heart of a Miner, and every guy who thinks of himself as a Worker With Dignity What Puts The Food/Fuel In People's Homes, is going to think, "You're saying 'fuck me'? Well, fuck you!"
Yeah, again, this is the rhetoric of toxic masculinity. Coal Mining is a Real Man's Job so every single dude who also thinks of himself as a Real Man, despite the fact that he's currently sitting in a cubicle making sure that Penske account gets closed on time, is going to see himself in that. Oh, he doesn't want to actually, like, mine coal. That sounds messy and dangerous. But he wants everyone to know that he totally could, if he wanted to. Which he doesn't. BUT YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH ABOUT COAL MINERS!
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:27 PM on March 16, 2017 [48 favorites]
This is beyond eating our seed corn. This is taking a hatchet to the tree trunk to see if a few more apples can be shaken out of the tree.
Yeah, it's like The Giving Tree budget, except in this version the kid wants a capital gains tax cut and some aircraft carriers and a big wall on the Mexican border.
posted by Mchelly at 1:29 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah, it's like The Giving Tree budget, except in this version the kid wants a capital gains tax cut and some aircraft carriers and a big wall on the Mexican border.
posted by Mchelly at 1:29 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah, again, this is the rhetoric Administration of toxic masculinity.
posted by jaduncan at 1:31 PM on March 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 1:31 PM on March 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
I guess the press conference is a good segue to mention the book I'm reading, which is apparently the pilot volume in a new series called Unspeakable, a collection of interviews by folks from Hot Books.
Anyhow, the interview subject of this first book is reporter and author Chris Hedges, and his conversation about the nature of power and its relationship to the press is pretty cogent and relevant to just this kind of Spicer/Trump chicanery and how the press handles it. I don't agree with all his arguments, but he's got a hell of a resume as a journalist and a perspective on his profession you don't see coming from the inside too often, so it's been uplifting in a sad kind of way for me at least.
posted by Rykey at 1:31 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Anyhow, the interview subject of this first book is reporter and author Chris Hedges, and his conversation about the nature of power and its relationship to the press is pretty cogent and relevant to just this kind of Spicer/Trump chicanery and how the press handles it. I don't agree with all his arguments, but he's got a hell of a resume as a journalist and a perspective on his profession you don't see coming from the inside too often, so it's been uplifting in a sad kind of way for me at least.
posted by Rykey at 1:31 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mulvaney is using miners as a convenient shield for arguments for gutting the civil state, based in part on that Real Man mythos about the noble blue-collar worker. In the abstract, of course it's idiotic to allow the concerns (whether or not Mulvaney is accurately representing the interests of the miners) of 100,000 or so people determine the governance of 300+ million. In the real world, saying "fuck miners," even if it feels good, is a bad bad idea, for the reasons corb lays out. OTOH, accurately pointing out how Mulvaney/Trump/etc are actually helping out the mine owners who get miners killed (see the safety rule suspensions in WV, for ex) and demonstrating how we will actually help miners and other Real Workers is the best way to approach countering this pernicious bullshit.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 1:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
The documents reveal that Flynn also received $11,250 from a Russian charter cargo airline and $11,250 from a top Russia-based cybersecurity corporation.
This is one of the least suspicious things to come out about the administration all week.
Also whoever was making plans to punch the living shit out of Mike Huckabee's face as soon as possible, know that I can't condone such behavior, no no stop no
posted by petebest at 1:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is one of the least suspicious things to come out about the administration all week.
Also whoever was making plans to punch the living shit out of Mike Huckabee's face as soon as possible, know that I can't condone such behavior, no no stop no
posted by petebest at 1:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
every miner, and everyone whose past three generations has a miner in it, and everyone who's ever watched those heartwarming shows about the Pure Heart of a Miner, and every guy who thinks of himself as a Worker With Dignity What Puts The Food/Fuel In People's Homes
But one of the frustrating things I, and probably many other people here, wrestle with is that modern movement conservatives obviously don't care about insulting entire swaths -- hell, entire coasts -- of Americans. And clearly they don't fear that kind of repercussion. So what gives?
posted by Gelatin at 1:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
But one of the frustrating things I, and probably many other people here, wrestle with is that modern movement conservatives obviously don't care about insulting entire swaths -- hell, entire coasts -- of Americans. And clearly they don't fear that kind of repercussion. So what gives?
posted by Gelatin at 1:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
so maybe some of the New England colleges will suddenly obtain some Canadian real estate.
Like the Ivy League could afford Canadian real estate!
posted by srboisvert at 1:37 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Like the Ivy League could afford Canadian real estate!
posted by srboisvert at 1:37 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mulvaney is using miners as a convenient shield for arguments for gutting the civil state, based in part on that Real Man mythos about the noble blue-collar worker. In the abstract, of course it's idiotic to allow the concerns (whether or not Mulvaney is accurately representing the interests of the miners) of 100,000 or so people determine the governance of 300+ million.
Mulvaney also wouldn't agree with the obvious solution of paying for all those budget priorities by raising taxes only on the wealthiest Americans. It's pure nonsense.
posted by Gelatin at 1:38 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mulvaney also wouldn't agree with the obvious solution of paying for all those budget priorities by raising taxes only on the wealthiest Americans. It's pure nonsense.
posted by Gelatin at 1:38 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
They have enough electoral votes without the liberal coasts. There's no disadvantage to openly punishing liberals, their hatefilled wannabe coal miners in the Rust Belt love them for it, and that's sufficient to win.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:39 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:39 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
With Pence, Ryan and now Mulvaney (note caption and suit decoration), the GOP is showing the very worst of fiddle-de-dee plastic-paddyism this week.
Surprised they didn't go big on Irish Slaves.
posted by Artw at 1:39 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Surprised they didn't go big on Irish Slaves.
posted by Artw at 1:39 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
But one of the frustrating things I, and probably many other people here, wrestle with is that modern movement conservatives obviously don't care about insulting entire swaths -- hell, entire coasts -- of Americans. And clearly they don't fear that kind of repercussion. So what gives?They can alienate everyone who identifies with the coasts and still win elections. And insulting the coasts can help win over people whose identity is bound up with resenting people on the coasts.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:40 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Do you hunk they are going to have every holiday that falls near a weekend in advance because they need to pack up and fly to Florida?
posted by Artw at 1:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 1:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
But one of the frustrating things I, and probably many other people here, wrestle with is that modern movement conservatives obviously don't care about insulting entire swaths -- hell, entire coasts -- of Americans. And clearly they don't fear that kind of repercussion. So what gives?
Wasn't there an FPP about differences in conservative/liberal thinking? IIRC, conservatives tend to overestimate how many people agree with them. They truly believe that "silent majority" narrative.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wasn't there an FPP about differences in conservative/liberal thinking? IIRC, conservatives tend to overestimate how many people agree with them. They truly believe that "silent majority" narrative.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
The other, slightly ungracious thing to say is "fuck miners." I don't mean that personally, but there are about 100,000 coal miners in the entire US. Invoking them as somehow a core part of the economy is myth-making bullshit.
Oh they are still fucking miners. What communities do you think will be drinking the contaminated creek water they are now allowed to spill? Who do you think will die from a collapse due to the reduced safety regulations? Whose healthcare isn't going to cover their black lung? Who won't get to file a class action suit?
posted by srboisvert at 1:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
Oh they are still fucking miners. What communities do you think will be drinking the contaminated creek water they are now allowed to spill? Who do you think will die from a collapse due to the reduced safety regulations? Whose healthcare isn't going to cover their black lung? Who won't get to file a class action suit?
posted by srboisvert at 1:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
Wasn't there an FPP about differences in conservative/liberal thinking? IIRC, conservatives tend to overestimate how many people agree with them. They truly believe that "silent majority" narrative.
The question is wholly irrelevant. They win elections whether the silent majority is behind them or not.
posted by Talez at 1:45 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
The question is wholly irrelevant. They win elections whether the silent majority is behind them or not.
posted by Talez at 1:45 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
And the coal miners aren't just any 100,000, they're the last remnants of an absolutely dying industry, that government re-education programs and relief programs would be designed to help the most. but of course no funding for them.
The Republican party really is a shit sandwich through and through.
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:45 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
The Republican party really is a shit sandwich through and through.
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:45 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Oh they are still fucking miners. What communities do you think will be drinking the contaminated creek water they are now allowed to spill? Who do you think will die from a collapse due to the reduced safety regulations? Whose healthcare isn't going to cover their black lung? Who won't get to file a class action suit?
That is so a job that is going away to automation in any case. There aren't any safety standards for robots.
posted by jaduncan at 1:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
That is so a job that is going away to automation in any case. There aren't any safety standards for robots.
posted by jaduncan at 1:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
No one even actually supported "fuck the miners" here, but it's interesting (and sadly predictable) how the response was to immediately try to pin the blame on supposed leftist elitism for Trump. And if even the people who claim to be sane moderates can't take responsibility for the engaging in and/or enabling all of the bigoted, fascist bullshit that was behind the rise of Trump, they have less than zero business calling themselves supporters of an ideology around personal responsibility. Remember, they supported Kansas-style economic warfare against the poor and "states' rights" to discriminate against LGBTQ people before Trump made it unfashionable. Just because they claim Ryan is no longer the Randian ubermensch they worshiped up to the summer of 2016 doesn't mean they wouldn't mind seeing that granny-starvin' action themselves as long as it's put in a proper, market-libertarian-friendly framing.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:48 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 1:48 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
And insulting the coasts can help win over people whose identity is bound up with resenting people on the coasts.
This is the thing. The culture war narrative really doesn't help people who actually want to make the world better, at all. Like, if you hate regulations being lifted? That, "Hey, these people are siding with mine owners" thing Existential Dread talks about above would be spot fucking on - if you could convince people that you don't actively hate them, their whole way of life, and everything they stand for.
If anyone has time, can suffer through romanticized past and a lot of nondenominational religious references, and a Netflix account, I would really recommend to everyone "When Calls The Heart", which is pretty much a textbook window into not-hateful Conservative Consciousness. I've been watching it in batches, and think it would be really, really enlightening, especially in the urban/rural divide stuff. It goes into how deep the core of conservative hate actually is for The Industrialist, or The Coal Mining Company What Fucks Them. They just can't be reminded of that when they think people are sneering at them.
posted by corb at 1:48 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is the thing. The culture war narrative really doesn't help people who actually want to make the world better, at all. Like, if you hate regulations being lifted? That, "Hey, these people are siding with mine owners" thing Existential Dread talks about above would be spot fucking on - if you could convince people that you don't actively hate them, their whole way of life, and everything they stand for.
If anyone has time, can suffer through romanticized past and a lot of nondenominational religious references, and a Netflix account, I would really recommend to everyone "When Calls The Heart", which is pretty much a textbook window into not-hateful Conservative Consciousness. I've been watching it in batches, and think it would be really, really enlightening, especially in the urban/rural divide stuff. It goes into how deep the core of conservative hate actually is for The Industrialist, or The Coal Mining Company What Fucks Them. They just can't be reminded of that when they think people are sneering at them.
posted by corb at 1:48 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
The whole culture war thing is weird to me in one way (well, in all ways): most cities were built on industry. I have nothing but empathy for towns that are experiencing deindustrialization because it happened here first! I lived through it! All my neighbors lived through it. My house probably could use a powerwashing because when it was built the air was heavy with the soot of industry and that soot is gone now, forever. I get it. I feel you. We know about some ways forward! But we have to trust one another first.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:53 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:53 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
The problem is that "liberals look down on me" is far more important to these mythical moderate conservatives than "my kids have clean air to breathe".
No matter how many Netflix documentaries you suggest, that's the real picture of American conservatism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:54 PM on March 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
No matter how many Netflix documentaries you suggest, that's the real picture of American conservatism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:54 PM on March 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
No one even actually supported "fuck the miners" here[...]
Well, one of Trump's campaign managers begs to diff- oh, miners, not minors. Sorry!
posted by PontifexPrimus at 1:56 PM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Well, one of Trump's campaign managers begs to diff- oh, miners, not minors. Sorry!
posted by PontifexPrimus at 1:56 PM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
It goes into how deep the core of conservative hate actually is for The Industrialist, or The Coal Mining Company What Fucks Them.
You mean they hate Job Creators? I've not seen much evidence to support this (the conservatives I know are either all about being entrepreneurs or look at their corporate overlords as shrewd and saintly benefactors protecting their shitty jobs from the accursed labor unions) but if there's anything to it it would a great place to drive in a wedge.
posted by contraption at 1:58 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
You mean they hate Job Creators? I've not seen much evidence to support this (the conservatives I know are either all about being entrepreneurs or look at their corporate overlords as shrewd and saintly benefactors protecting their shitty jobs from the accursed labor unions) but if there's anything to it it would a great place to drive in a wedge.
posted by contraption at 1:58 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is ridiculous: Spicer is reading, longform, excerpts from public reporting about the possibility of FISA warrants to cover people associated with Trump's campaign; reporting that is sourced on anonymous leaks, which in Spicer has spent weeks attacking. He has yet to cite anything other than public reporting in defense of the President's claims of wiretapping; the President, who could, presumably, actually release the reports or information on which that reporting was based, and actually either confirm or deny the reporting. This is absolutely, 100% ridiculous.
They haven't yet found the switches to turn the lights on in the White House. They probably haven't found Comey's phone number either. I'm only half joking.
posted by mumimor at 1:59 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
They haven't yet found the switches to turn the lights on in the White House. They probably haven't found Comey's phone number either. I'm only half joking.
posted by mumimor at 1:59 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
They just can't be reminded of that when they think people are sneering at them.
Well, then, maybe if wannabe miner-whisperers would spend less (maybe even none!) of their time telling them that we're sneering at them and instead tell them we want them to have healthcare, clean water/air, living wages, healthy work environments, and a billion other awesome things that somehow gets translated to "socialism meant to take away your freedom" before it gets to them, they wouldn't think that.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:00 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, then, maybe if wannabe miner-whisperers would spend less (maybe even none!) of their time telling them that we're sneering at them and instead tell them we want them to have healthcare, clean water/air, living wages, healthy work environments, and a billion other awesome things that somehow gets translated to "socialism meant to take away your freedom" before it gets to them, they wouldn't think that.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:00 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
> Francisca Lino, mom of six, is about to be deported. Her congressman protested and was handcuffed.
Rep. Gutiérrez Speaks Out After Being Handcuffed for Demanding Answers on ICE Raids & Deportations
Complete Idiocy: Rep. Gutiérrez Slams Rep. King's Racist Tweet About "Somebody Else's Babies"
posted by homunculus at 2:04 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
Rep. Gutiérrez Speaks Out After Being Handcuffed for Demanding Answers on ICE Raids & Deportations
Complete Idiocy: Rep. Gutiérrez Slams Rep. King's Racist Tweet About "Somebody Else's Babies"
posted by homunculus at 2:04 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
I would really recommend to everyone "When Calls The Heart", which is pretty much a textbook window into not-hateful Conservative Consciousness.
Funny, that--it's written/produced (at least partly) by Ricky Manning, who was the executive producer of Farscape. It's not exactly coming from a classic conservative position, you understand...
posted by suelac at 2:04 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Funny, that--it's written/produced (at least partly) by Ricky Manning, who was the executive producer of Farscape. It's not exactly coming from a classic conservative position, you understand...
posted by suelac at 2:04 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
That is so a job that is going away to automation in any case. There aren't any safety standards for robots.
It's kind of sweet to think that a robot will be considered more expendable than a human life, but I don't think that's the world we live in.
Those robots are expensive. Human life is cheap to people who only care about actuarial tables.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:04 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's kind of sweet to think that a robot will be considered more expendable than a human life, but I don't think that's the world we live in.
Those robots are expensive. Human life is cheap to people who only care about actuarial tables.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:04 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
The view from Ireland:
‘First Mike Pence says 'top of the morning', then Paul Ryan holds up this appalling pint, grave missteps by the US’
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
‘First Mike Pence says 'top of the morning', then Paul Ryan holds up this appalling pint, grave missteps by the US’
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
My point is that there are more dog groomers in America than there are coal miners. Of course, dog grooming is lowish-paid work mostly done by women, but it's still a big industry. But nobody's hanging the budget or the fate of the nation on the wellbeing of dog groomers, in the way President Bannon does with his fantasy of bare-chested miners and steelworkers.
I come from a heavy-industrial town. I know the mythology of heavy industry. I also know that heavy industry -- especially extractive industry -- is about generational sacrifice so that the next generation doesn't have to do terrible life-shortening jobs.
posted by holgate at 2:06 PM on March 16, 2017 [55 favorites]
I come from a heavy-industrial town. I know the mythology of heavy industry. I also know that heavy industry -- especially extractive industry -- is about generational sacrifice so that the next generation doesn't have to do terrible life-shortening jobs.
posted by holgate at 2:06 PM on March 16, 2017 [55 favorites]
Funny, that--it's written/produced (at least partly) by Ricky Manning, who was the executive producer of Farscape. It's not exactly coming from a classic conservative position, you understand...
Oh, sure, I apologize if I seemed to misrepresent it as political propaganda - it's completely not. But the conservative moms I know eat it up like hotcakes, which got me to watch the thing in the first place. And it's actually fascinating as a blueprint for how you could totally crack at least some of the problem. Like that's kind of the great part about it being Canadian, because it's kind of big on the "We all pull together and that's what makes us great" aspect, but also on the "strength, independence, and faith will move mountains, there's redemption for everyone, etc" stuff.
posted by corb at 2:08 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, sure, I apologize if I seemed to misrepresent it as political propaganda - it's completely not. But the conservative moms I know eat it up like hotcakes, which got me to watch the thing in the first place. And it's actually fascinating as a blueprint for how you could totally crack at least some of the problem. Like that's kind of the great part about it being Canadian, because it's kind of big on the "We all pull together and that's what makes us great" aspect, but also on the "strength, independence, and faith will move mountains, there's redemption for everyone, etc" stuff.
posted by corb at 2:08 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
‘First Mike Pence says 'top of the morning', then Paul Ryan holds up this appalling pint, grave missteps by the US'
I thought to myself, "How the fuck can you get a pint wrong? Did he use US piss water or something?"
Nope. It's Guinness. And the pint is fucking appalling. It looks like some fucking moron poured it, or, far more likely, poured it out of a can into a glass 20 minutes before going up there.
posted by Talez at 2:09 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
I thought to myself, "How the fuck can you get a pint wrong? Did he use US piss water or something?"
Nope. It's Guinness. And the pint is fucking appalling. It looks like some fucking moron poured it, or, far more likely, poured it out of a can into a glass 20 minutes before going up there.
posted by Talez at 2:09 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Chris Hedges
I read War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning, and I thought, this is a wise man who understands human nature, the dark parts of it and the good parts of it. He went to seminary, and he covered the war in the former Yugoslavia and the Gulf War as a war correspondent. These are some profound and tragic insights.
Then I read American Fascists ...
I'm sorry, Chris Hedges. You were right, and I was wrong. You saw it before I did. They really were fascists. They didn't even wait for another 9/11 to show it. I think I'm gonna read that book again with my blinders off and see what wisdom he has for me...
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:10 PM on March 16, 2017 [60 favorites]
I read War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning, and I thought, this is a wise man who understands human nature, the dark parts of it and the good parts of it. He went to seminary, and he covered the war in the former Yugoslavia and the Gulf War as a war correspondent. These are some profound and tragic insights.
Then I read American Fascists ...
All it will take, Hedges writes, is one more national crisis on the order of September 11 for the Christian Right to make a concerted drive to destroy American democracy. The movement awaits a crisis. At that moment they will reveal themselves for what they truly are -- the American heirs to fascism. Hedges issues a potent, impassioned warning. We face an imminent threat. His book reminds us of the dangers liberal, democratic societies face when they tolerate the intolerant.I thought: "This is so harsh and partisan. What happened to him? How did he get so angry and uncharitable toward the people he disagrees with? What happened to the presumption of good faith and the benefit of the doubt? He was more sympathetic to the Iraqi Republican Guard than he is here to the American right wing. I guess people get crankier as they age."
I'm sorry, Chris Hedges. You were right, and I was wrong. You saw it before I did. They really were fascists. They didn't even wait for another 9/11 to show it. I think I'm gonna read that book again with my blinders off and see what wisdom he has for me...
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:10 PM on March 16, 2017 [60 favorites]
Even when you do try to say "the richies are screwing you," their response is to jump to the defense of the billionaires. You're jealous, lazy, entitled. You just don't like to see people happy to work. Even if you wrap the message in 18 layers of bubble wrap, the conditioning runs so deep they'd rather throw themselves under the feet of the 1% than admit the system is rigged against them by the ruling class that waves the right flag and totes the right Bible (unless that involves blaming immigrants/minorities/liberals).
posted by Kitty Stardust at 2:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 2:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Well, this is Proper Immigrants Week, flat pints and all.
posted by holgate at 2:12 PM on March 16, 2017
posted by holgate at 2:12 PM on March 16, 2017
> The Incredible Cruelty of Trumpcare
More from Brian Beutler: Trumpcare Is the Opposite of Freedom: The Republican alternative to Obamacare only gives Americans the freedom to work until they die.
More from Brian Beutler: Trumpcare Is the Opposite of Freedom: The Republican alternative to Obamacare only gives Americans the freedom to work until they die.
Republican appeals to freedom are often amusingly circular; the party coopted the language of liberty long enough ago that they deploy it unthinkingly. If Republicans are for it, it must increase liberty. Under the terms of the AHCA, 14 million people will lose their insurance almost immediately, in many cases because higher premiums and lower subsidies will make health plans unaffordable. This is a weird way to define liberty.posted by homunculus at 2:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
But its Republicans strongest arguments for the AHCA, rather than their weakest ones, that reveal their conception of liberty and freedom to be exceptionally callous. Obamacare supporters now have an opportunity to reclaim those terms.
Oh, sure, I apologize if I seemed to misrepresent it as political propaganda - it's completely not. But the conservative moms I know eat it up like hotcakes, which got me to watch the thing in the first place.
I'm just amused because it's Froon, and he's the ultimate left coast liberal. He invented Scorpius, you understand....
posted by suelac at 2:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm just amused because it's Froon, and he's the ultimate left coast liberal. He invented Scorpius, you understand....
posted by suelac at 2:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
For whatever it's worth, as of May 2015, the Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that around 69K people are employed in Coal Mining (NAICS 212100), including management (2,450), business & finance (1,490), and architecture and engineering occupations (2,230). This is just about the size of the median NFL stadium. If Beyonce threw a special concert for everyone employed in the coal industry on her Formation tour, it would only be sixth largest of her shows. This is 15% the population of Staten Island. This is only slightly larger than the 62K employed at Disney World alone.
posted by mhum at 2:14 PM on March 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by mhum at 2:14 PM on March 16, 2017 [40 favorites]
Trump to Michigan gov: 'I never forget' those who didn't endorse me
posted by futz at 2:14 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by futz at 2:14 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
‘First Mike Pence says 'top of the morning', then Paul Ryan holds up this appalling pint, grave missteps by the US'
Best reply: "What fucking methodist poured that pathetic pint".
It's funny because it probably was a methodist.
posted by Talez at 2:14 PM on March 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
Best reply: "What fucking methodist poured that pathetic pint".
It's funny because it probably was a methodist.
posted by Talez at 2:14 PM on March 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
The only good thing about today's briefing was the opportunity Spicey's green tie has given the internets.
posted by rewil at 2:15 PM on March 16, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by rewil at 2:15 PM on March 16, 2017 [29 favorites]
some people will think you're sneering at them even when you're not.
Adam Cadre seems to be topically accurate so often, even years later:
Adam Cadre seems to be topically accurate so often, even years later:
Paul Krugman recently pointed out that "much of the anger on the right is based not on the claim that Democrats have done bad things, but on the perception -- generally based on no evidence whatsoever -- that Democrats look down their noses at regular people. Thus Mr. Giuliani asserted that Wasilla, Alaska, isn't 'flashy enough' for Mr. Obama, who never said any such thing. And Ms. Palin asserted that Democrats 'look down' on small-town mayors -- again, without any evidence." Of course there isn't any evidence; it's hard to look down your nose at people when you're kissing their feet. So why do the red staters feel as though blue staters are looking down at them? Because they know they deserve it.posted by jackbishop at 2:16 PM on March 16, 2017 [63 favorites]
Democrats can avoid saying that the red states are inferior to the blue ones as much as they like. But the red staters will continue to hear it. They'll hear it because the voices inside their heads are saying it. And those voices are correct. This makes them angry, and they lash out.
The problem isn't that people aren't being nice enough to miners (or whatever group), the problem is that miners (or whatever group) have been fed a line of bullshit that everyone is already sneering at them.
And that any attempt to make their (or anyone's) lives better is actually an extension of said sneering -- to the point where things like arts funding or feeding hungry children are considered in and of themselves anti-Real-America.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:16 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
And that any attempt to make their (or anyone's) lives better is actually an extension of said sneering -- to the point where things like arts funding or feeding hungry children are considered in and of themselves anti-Real-America.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:16 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Best reply: "What fucking methodist poured that pathetic pint".
It's funny because it probably was a methodist.
So you're saying there was Methodism to this madness?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:17 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's funny because it probably was a methodist.
So you're saying there was Methodism to this madness?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:17 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Democrats can avoid saying that the red states are inferior to the blue ones as much as they like. But the red staters will continue to hear it. They'll hear it because the voices inside their heads are saying it. And those voices are correct. This makes them angry, and they lash out.I mean, that does kind of sound like sneering to me?
I dunno. I moved to Iowa from Chicago, and before that I lived in NYC and DC. There are some nice things about Iowa, and there are some things about Iowa that I will never love. People here are people. The idea that it's either superior or inferior to New York or San Francisco seems kind of silly to me.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:20 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Onion: 'Curses!' Shouts Fist-Shaking Meals On Wheels Ringleader As Trump Cuts Off Gravy Train
posted by porn in the woods at 2:22 PM on March 16, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 2:22 PM on March 16, 2017 [25 favorites]
Trump to Michigan gov: 'I never forget' those who didn't endorse me
hahahahahahaha
(Our governor is my second least liked person - next to POTUS)
posted by INFJ at 2:22 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
hahahahahahaha
(Our governor is my second least liked person - next to POTUS)
posted by INFJ at 2:22 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
FWIW, I'll concede that Adam Cadre, individually, is directing some pretty unambiguous disdain there. But the point that red America has a huge fucker of an inferiority complex which outweighs what people might actually be saying about them is still relevant.
posted by jackbishop at 2:23 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jackbishop at 2:23 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I never have a problem knowing what I'd do with the trolley problem dilemma, though. YMMV, although I'd be really curious to know what situation - if any - you do think that force is justified in resistance.
I'll admit that it's tough to quantify, and far from fool proof. I believe that we should live with a certain baseline of civility and respect for each other, and it's up to each of us to uphold our end of that bargain, regardless of others' inability or unwillingness to do so. But of course that contract bends and breaks in any number of extraordinary circumstances. If you cut me off in traffic, I'm not going to wish or act to ensure that you smash into a tree at high velocity. Conversely, if come at me or the people I love intent on doing violence, I'm going to end you.
And I understand that those are literal examples that have metaphorical analogs—some of which are going to pre-ordain revolution or violence against transgressions. Which is what makes it hard to succinctly quantify. I think, even in the extreme examples, there are lines I wouldn't cross—I'm never going to be okay subjecting someone to torture, no matter their crimes, for example.
In a civilized world, with human beings trying to move through life with empathy for others, I think the Golden Rule offers some of the best guidance for how to approach interactions with your fellow humans. Understanding that these stated premises are reasonably questioned by many at this point, I don't judge others for where their respective lines in the sand are. We are living in extraordinary times, for better or worse. But it's the line I personally try to toe, to keep my moral compass aligned.
posted by Brak at 2:27 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'll admit that it's tough to quantify, and far from fool proof. I believe that we should live with a certain baseline of civility and respect for each other, and it's up to each of us to uphold our end of that bargain, regardless of others' inability or unwillingness to do so. But of course that contract bends and breaks in any number of extraordinary circumstances. If you cut me off in traffic, I'm not going to wish or act to ensure that you smash into a tree at high velocity. Conversely, if come at me or the people I love intent on doing violence, I'm going to end you.
And I understand that those are literal examples that have metaphorical analogs—some of which are going to pre-ordain revolution or violence against transgressions. Which is what makes it hard to succinctly quantify. I think, even in the extreme examples, there are lines I wouldn't cross—I'm never going to be okay subjecting someone to torture, no matter their crimes, for example.
In a civilized world, with human beings trying to move through life with empathy for others, I think the Golden Rule offers some of the best guidance for how to approach interactions with your fellow humans. Understanding that these stated premises are reasonably questioned by many at this point, I don't judge others for where their respective lines in the sand are. We are living in extraordinary times, for better or worse. But it's the line I personally try to toe, to keep my moral compass aligned.
posted by Brak at 2:27 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
I mean, that does kind of sound like sneering to me?
A lot of the people I know who express this weird combined hate/inferiority complex thing resent that they themselves never made it to college — or whatever it is they feel inferior about (moved away from home, got a boat, a 4WD, whatever). And they are really mean, when it gets to them. So I can understand if someone would sneer at them.
When I was in (equivalent to) high school, there was this gang of jocks who were mostly dead-set on the route to libertarian conservatism and hate of liberals. They were the worst bullies, violent, cruel, misogynistic. In the end, it all turned out very differently, but that's an other story. Back then, it was interesting that the one guy who knew he wanted to be a pilot, and did everything he could to reach his goal stood out from the others because he never felt inferior to us nerds. He was doing his thing, and he could respect that we were doing ours. No resentment, no hate, always respectful towards women and outsiders.
posted by mumimor at 2:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
A lot of the people I know who express this weird combined hate/inferiority complex thing resent that they themselves never made it to college — or whatever it is they feel inferior about (moved away from home, got a boat, a 4WD, whatever). And they are really mean, when it gets to them. So I can understand if someone would sneer at them.
When I was in (equivalent to) high school, there was this gang of jocks who were mostly dead-set on the route to libertarian conservatism and hate of liberals. They were the worst bullies, violent, cruel, misogynistic. In the end, it all turned out very differently, but that's an other story. Back then, it was interesting that the one guy who knew he wanted to be a pilot, and did everything he could to reach his goal stood out from the others because he never felt inferior to us nerds. He was doing his thing, and he could respect that we were doing ours. No resentment, no hate, always respectful towards women and outsiders.
posted by mumimor at 2:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
The whole "Fuck coal miners" thing, coming from people here who vote for politicians who would enact laws supporting a social safety net for miners and everyone else, makes me think of my favorite parable. The current political situation also reminds me of it.
Matthew 21:28-32
Dad goes to his son and asks: "Please go work in the vineyard today." Son says: "Fuck you Dad! I'm not going to waste my time under the hot sun for you." Dad goes to his second son and asks: "Please go work in the vineyard today." Second son says: "I'd do anything for you, Dad. I love you. You're the best!"
Second son then fucked off to the beach and did nothing. First son regretted what he said. Went into the vineyard and picked grapes all day.
When asked: "who was the better son?", white voters in Appalachia and the Rust Belt responded with: "Clearly, the second son was the best. He loves his dad!"
posted by honestcoyote at 2:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [76 favorites]
Matthew 21:28-32
Dad goes to his son and asks: "Please go work in the vineyard today." Son says: "Fuck you Dad! I'm not going to waste my time under the hot sun for you." Dad goes to his second son and asks: "Please go work in the vineyard today." Second son says: "I'd do anything for you, Dad. I love you. You're the best!"
Second son then fucked off to the beach and did nothing. First son regretted what he said. Went into the vineyard and picked grapes all day.
When asked: "who was the better son?", white voters in Appalachia and the Rust Belt responded with: "Clearly, the second son was the best. He loves his dad!"
posted by honestcoyote at 2:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [76 favorites]
Brak: Thank you, that was an excellent answer.
posted by jaduncan at 2:37 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jaduncan at 2:37 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
BTW, the Onion just made a rather neat bit of snark, but it reads roughly in the dismissive way being discussed:
Trump Says Wasteful NEA Hasn’t Produced Single Valuable Work Since Claes Oldenburg’s ‘Giant Three-Way Plug’posted by jaduncan at 2:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
WASHINGTON—Defending his proposed elimination of the federally funded agency, President Donald Trump told reporters Thursday that the wasteful National Endowment for the Arts hasn’t even produced a single valuable work since Claes Oldenburg’s Giant Three-Way Plug. “We have not seen one single NEA-backed project come close to justifying its cost since the Swedish-American sculptor debuted his Pop Art masterpiece in 1970, challenging the way we grapple with questions of industrialization and decay,” said Trump, adding that taxpayer dollars shouldn’t support an organization whose body of work includes such underwhelming artistic efforts as the Joffrey Ballet’s The Rite Of Spring and the entirety of the Hudson Valley Shakespeare Festival. “Sure, William Bolcom’s Songs Of Innocence And Of Experience moved me at times, but for every Pulitzer Prize–winning composer the NEA supports, it also funds 20 more derivative jazz quartets. Enough is enough.” Trump went on to say that PBS’s Evening At Pops, which ended in 2005, was the network’s last example of worthwhile programming.
honestcoyote, I wish I could favorite that a hundred times. Because it is so accurate on the macro level.
That said, in my personal micro level experience, people think that way when/because they have been abused, and conditioned to act on what they are told rather than what they see with their own eyes. I'm afraid that is what is playing out in politics today.
posted by mumimor at 2:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
That said, in my personal micro level experience, people think that way when/because they have been abused, and conditioned to act on what they are told rather than what they see with their own eyes. I'm afraid that is what is playing out in politics today.
posted by mumimor at 2:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I really love the simplicity and profundity of the Golden Rule. I wish it could be hard-wired into every human being's psyche.
Along with the fucking Hippocratic Oath.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Along with the fucking Hippocratic Oath.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Bloomberg has a story about how selling condos to shady Russians provided a decade of cashflow for the Trump organization: Behind Trump’s Russia Romance, There’s a Tower Full of Oligarchs.
John Marshall adds his context: Follow The Money, Donald Trump Edition.
posted by peeedro at 2:45 PM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
John Marshall adds his context: Follow The Money, Donald Trump Edition.
posted by peeedro at 2:45 PM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
So... this "budget." Is this, like, a done thing? Or does Congress have to enact it, and could they instead change it.
In other words, is there any hope of saving the NEA/PBS, etc.
posted by dnash at 2:48 PM on March 16, 2017
In other words, is there any hope of saving the NEA/PBS, etc.
posted by dnash at 2:48 PM on March 16, 2017
The president's budget request is just that -- a request. It has zero legal weight, but when the president's party controls Congress it does (usually) set the tone for their own spending bills. Ultimately the budget goes through the same process as any other bill - Congress writes it, debates it and votes on it, and the president only comes into the picture in a formal capacity when he signs or vetoes it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:49 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:49 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
"We're not going to give up on destroying the healthcare system for the American people." Paul Ryan, 2014.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
The traditional language used for the Presidential budget in Congress, pretty much regardless of party, is "dead on arrival".
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:55 PM on March 16, 2017
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:55 PM on March 16, 2017
The World Famous: Why is it that, when Trump tweets accusing Obama of illegally wiretapping Trump Tower, congress and the FBI and DOJ and the news, etc. spend weeks going on and on about whether there should be a formal investigation of this allegation of a crime that is being made by only one person, who is unwilling to back up the allegation at all,...
Just spitballing here, but, "racism"?
posted by mikelieman at 2:59 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Just spitballing here, but, "racism"?
posted by mikelieman at 2:59 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also "irrelevant" and "wishlist."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:59 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:59 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this budget is, like many of Trump's statements, mostly about positioning and showing his power. Not so much about actually accomplishing anything.
Most members of Congress aren't going to be okay with killing Meals on Wheels and hundreds of other programs that support their constituents. Instead we'll get a standard Republican budget that gives too much to the military and not enough to EPA or NIH.
It's still awful, mind you. But it's not implementable, even on its face, since it apparently breaks the law Congress passed during the Obama years that put the sequester in place.
posted by suelac at 2:59 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Most members of Congress aren't going to be okay with killing Meals on Wheels and hundreds of other programs that support their constituents. Instead we'll get a standard Republican budget that gives too much to the military and not enough to EPA or NIH.
It's still awful, mind you. But it's not implementable, even on its face, since it apparently breaks the law Congress passed during the Obama years that put the sequester in place.
posted by suelac at 2:59 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
So between the cutting of Meals on Wheels and the heating subsidies, the elderly poor will be able to starve AND freeze to death. MAGA! I'm sure all of those Christians who put DJT in the WH will pray for their souls.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:03 PM on March 16, 2017
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:03 PM on March 16, 2017
Brak: I really love the simplicity and profundity of the Golden Rule. I wish it could be hard-wired into every human being's psyche.
posted by mikelieman at 3:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
aspersioncast : Along with the fucking Hippocratic Oath.Tikkun Olam is how I roll...
posted by mikelieman at 3:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Rewinding the tape back to the way in which extractive energy -- its production and use -- is totemic to the populist right, there's clearly a disjunction between Symbolic Miner and Actual Miner. Some Actual Miners might feel obliged to behave like Symbolic Miners, because it's through conforming to Symbolic Miner stereotypes that power flows down to Actual Miners. And the fewer Actual Miners there are, the more they have to play the part of Symbolic Miner.
There could be one coal miner left in the US -- let's call him Ken -- and every elected politician would claim to speak on Ken's behalf, and what Ken actually says or thinks independently is immaterial.
posted by holgate at 3:22 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
There could be one coal miner left in the US -- let's call him Ken -- and every elected politician would claim to speak on Ken's behalf, and what Ken actually says or thinks independently is immaterial.
posted by holgate at 3:22 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Trump's policy wish list (and the rest of the GOP's for that matter) would be horrific for Actual Miners, but great for the Don Blankenships of the world who have enriched themselves by making conditions for Actual Miners even more horrific. I get that the "What's the Matter with Kansas" theory was condescending and incomplete at best, but there does come a point at which you have redirect resources away from the people who hate your policies no matter how much better off they'd be under them.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:31 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 3:31 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ralph Shortey, Oklahoma State Senator, Christian conservative with two kids, and Trump campaign organizer, was Just busted on child prostitution charges, live boy version
Not only that, but he engaged in prostitution within 1,000 feet of a church!
posted by nubs at 3:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Not only that, but he engaged in prostitution within 1,000 feet of a church!
posted by nubs at 3:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
I really love the simplicity and profundity of the Golden Rule. I wish it could be hard-wired into every human being's psyche.
I sometimes wonder if it isn't already hard-wired, and that it takes years of abuse (of various sorts) to get rid of it.
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I sometimes wonder if it isn't already hard-wired, and that it takes years of abuse (of various sorts) to get rid of it.
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
This Mulvaney guy is a fucking monster. Jesus H Christ, I am so depressed at hearing the shit coming out of his mouth. Inhuman.
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:46 PM on March 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:46 PM on March 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
Not only that, but he engaged in prostitution within 1,000 feet of a church!
To be fair, in Oklahoma, pretty much anywhere you happen to do anything is within 1,000 feet of a church. [fake-ish]
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
To be fair, in Oklahoma, pretty much anywhere you happen to do anything is within 1,000 feet of a church. [fake-ish]
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Hey, these people are siding with mine owners" thing Existential Dread talks about above would be spot fucking on - if you could convince people that you don't actively hate them, their whole way of life, and everything they stand for.
Which is probably why there's an entire conservative media structure, including a cable news channel, dedicated to prospect of convincing rural voters that liberals actively hate them, their whole way of life, and everything they stand for.
(And no, "you don't get to legislate your religious preferences on your fellow citizens != hating; it's in the First Amendment, so it's patriotic. Not that Fox News would jeopardize the devil's bargain the evangelicals made with the Republican Party to admit it.)
Because "Hey, these people are siding with mine owners" really should be proof, except the Republican Party, which does side with the mine owners, needs to fool people int voting for them, so they need miners not to hear that message at all.
posted by Gelatin at 3:48 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Which is probably why there's an entire conservative media structure, including a cable news channel, dedicated to prospect of convincing rural voters that liberals actively hate them, their whole way of life, and everything they stand for.
(And no, "you don't get to legislate your religious preferences on your fellow citizens != hating; it's in the First Amendment, so it's patriotic. Not that Fox News would jeopardize the devil's bargain the evangelicals made with the Republican Party to admit it.)
Because "Hey, these people are siding with mine owners" really should be proof, except the Republican Party, which does side with the mine owners, needs to fool people int voting for them, so they need miners not to hear that message at all.
posted by Gelatin at 3:48 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
So not to abuse the edit function: It goes into how deep the core of conservative hate actually is for The Industrialist, or The Coal Mining Company What Fucks Them. They just can't be reminded of that when they think people are sneering at them.
If they can't be reminded of their economic disadvantage at the hands of big capitalism because they think, wrongly, that people are sneering at them, I wonder how deep the hate of said capitalism really is.
posted by Gelatin at 3:50 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
If they can't be reminded of their economic disadvantage at the hands of big capitalism because they think, wrongly, that people are sneering at them, I wonder how deep the hate of said capitalism really is.
posted by Gelatin at 3:50 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Spicey cited Fox News's Judge Judge Judgeyman, who accused Obama of outsourcing surveillance to GCHQ, and GCHQ very very quickly told the British press that the accusations were "complete and utter nonsense", and followed it up with a statement saying much the same thing. That's the kind of shite that puts long-standing spook alliances at risk.
posted by holgate at 3:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by holgate at 3:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sean Spicer:
There’s this assumption in Washington, Jonathan, that if you get less money it’s a cut. And I think that the reality is, is that in a lot of these, there’s efficiencies, duplicity, ways to spend money better, and I think if you are wasting a lot of money, uh, that’s not a true dollar spent. And I think when you look at the way that Director Mulvaney and the President approached this budget it was, can we ask, can we get more, with the same dollar, can we find duplicity, can we find efficiencies, can we combine, you know, facilities in some cases at NIH, to enhance a better experience? Um, whereby we actually have an outcome that’s reduced savings. But to assume that because you spend a ton of dollars, uh, you’re going to get a better outcome, I mean, with all due respect I mean you look at the District of Columbia they spend by far more per capita than any other city in the country on education, and I think they have, you know, uh, tremendous issues that are constantly being dealt with in their education system. So to assume that just because you throw money at a problem, it some how magically solves, is a very Washington way of looking at a budget problem.
So to recap: NIH budget: $31.7 billion, lots of waste, use the Homespun Rural America Folks' way of looking at the problem, cut the shit out of it. Defense budget, $587 billion, no waste there, use Washington way of looking at the budget, throw money at the problem.
Oh, I think we can find duplicity alright.
posted by Killick at 3:52 PM on March 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
There’s this assumption in Washington, Jonathan, that if you get less money it’s a cut. And I think that the reality is, is that in a lot of these, there’s efficiencies, duplicity, ways to spend money better, and I think if you are wasting a lot of money, uh, that’s not a true dollar spent. And I think when you look at the way that Director Mulvaney and the President approached this budget it was, can we ask, can we get more, with the same dollar, can we find duplicity, can we find efficiencies, can we combine, you know, facilities in some cases at NIH, to enhance a better experience? Um, whereby we actually have an outcome that’s reduced savings. But to assume that because you spend a ton of dollars, uh, you’re going to get a better outcome, I mean, with all due respect I mean you look at the District of Columbia they spend by far more per capita than any other city in the country on education, and I think they have, you know, uh, tremendous issues that are constantly being dealt with in their education system. So to assume that just because you throw money at a problem, it some how magically solves, is a very Washington way of looking at a budget problem.
So to recap: NIH budget: $31.7 billion, lots of waste, use the Homespun Rural America Folks' way of looking at the problem, cut the shit out of it. Defense budget, $587 billion, no waste there, use Washington way of looking at the budget, throw money at the problem.
Oh, I think we can find duplicity alright.
posted by Killick at 3:52 PM on March 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
I imagine Sean Spicer sorting out his ethical dilemmas by discussing them with the massive gum bezoar in his stomach, which is sentient and can talk in my headcanon
Unfortunately it's only concerned with accumulating more gum
It passes him a note during the briefing: "Send down more gum."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:57 PM on March 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
To add: GCHQ issuing any public comment on anything beyond "neither confirm nor deny" is exceptionally rare.
posted by holgate at 3:57 PM on March 16, 2017
posted by holgate at 3:57 PM on March 16, 2017
GCHQ issuing any public comment on anything beyond "neither confirm nor deny" is exceptionally rare.
In related news, we still want that trade deal.
posted by jaduncan at 4:01 PM on March 16, 2017
In related news, we still want that trade deal.
posted by jaduncan at 4:01 PM on March 16, 2017
And that any attempt to make their (or anyone's) lives better is actually an extension of said sneering -- to the point where things like arts funding or feeding hungry children are considered in and of themselves anti-Real-America.
Which gets us back to cleek's law: "Today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today, updated daily."
posted by Gelatin at 4:02 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Which gets us back to cleek's law: "Today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today, updated daily."
posted by Gelatin at 4:02 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
Don Blankenship is in prison because his company was violating safety standards that Republicans want to gut the enforcement of, resulting in an explosion that killed 29.
posted by prefpara at 4:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 4:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
All the congressman in green and holding pints and whatnot...it is still Thursday, right? Like, I didn't miss a day? St Patrick's is tomorrow, is it not?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:07 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:07 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
St Patrick's is tomorrow, is it not?
Tomorrow's a half day.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:10 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Tomorrow's a half day.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:10 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Tomorrow's a half day.
Fuck, I forget how lazy the rich are
posted by OverlappingElvis at 4:11 PM on March 16, 2017 [25 favorites]
Fuck, I forget how lazy the rich are
posted by OverlappingElvis at 4:11 PM on March 16, 2017 [25 favorites]
Mulvaney: Proposed cuts are compassionate to taxpayers
Mick Mulvaney is a goddamn sociopath.
posted by Rhaomi at 4:11 PM on March 16, 2017 [61 favorites]
On after-school programs, [Trump budget director] Mulvaney said services intended to help feed hungry students in order to improve their academic performance deserve to be cut because proof of that progress has not materialized.Because why else would we feed hungry children if not to turn them into cogs more efficiently?
“They're supposed to be educational programs, right? I mean, that’s what they’re supposed to do. They're supposed to help kids who don't get fed at home get fed so they do better in school,” Mulvaney said. “Guess what? There's no demonstrable evidence they're actually doing that. There's no demonstrable evidence they're actually helping results, helping kids do better in school… the way we justified it was, these programs are going to help these kids do better in school and get better jobs. And we can’t prove that that’s happening.”
Mick Mulvaney is a goddamn sociopath.
posted by Rhaomi at 4:11 PM on March 16, 2017 [61 favorites]
It is, but they'll probably be more restrained with the Merkel visit.
I hope
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 4:11 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I hope
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 4:11 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Don Blankenship is in prison because his company was violating safety standards that Republicans want to gut the enforcement of, resulting in an explosion that killed 29.
He will serve one year in jail, at a low security facility -- for 29 killed.
posted by JackFlash at 4:13 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
He will serve one year in jail, at a low security facility -- for 29 killed.
posted by JackFlash at 4:13 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mick Mulvaney is a goddamn sociopath
Both I and this guy had a Catholic education and I just... How?!
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:14 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Both I and this guy had a Catholic education and I just... How?!
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:14 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
“They're supposed to be educational programs, right? I mean, that’s what they’re supposed to do. They're supposed to help kids who don't get fed at home get fed so they do better in school,” Mulvaney said. “Guess what? There's no demonstrable evidence they're actually doing that. There's no demonstrable evidence they're actually helping results, helping kids do better in school… the way we justified it was, these programs are going to help these kids do better in school and get better jobs. And we can’t prove that that’s happening.”....so we're not going to feed them.
What a fucking monster. We have demonstrable evidence that these poor fucking kids get fed. That's enough to justify the program, full fucking stop.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:15 PM on March 16, 2017 [64 favorites]
What a fucking monster. We have demonstrable evidence that these poor fucking kids get fed. That's enough to justify the program, full fucking stop.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:15 PM on March 16, 2017 [64 favorites]
Oh, and Bankenship's jail contains circuit training with a running track, softball field, soccer field, basketball court, two tennis courts, bocce, horseshoes, exercise bicycles, elliptical trainers and treadmills.
posted by JackFlash at 4:18 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 4:18 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
My son's best friend is freaked out about the free breakfast/lunch program cuts: working families rely on that stuff!
posted by saulgoodman at 4:20 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 4:20 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Video of Mick Mulvaney's smug dismissal of programs that feed hungry schoolchildren
posted by Rhaomi at 4:24 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 4:24 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
A friend of mine just tweeted about how when she was a kid, often the free breakfast/lunch was the only regular meal she got.
And fuck you, Mulvaney, there are many studies showing that kids with full stomachs do better at school. This is not some outlandish theory.
posted by suelac at 4:32 PM on March 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
And fuck you, Mulvaney, there are many studies showing that kids with full stomachs do better at school. This is not some outlandish theory.
posted by suelac at 4:32 PM on March 16, 2017 [41 favorites]
Is it okay to feel fairly sure that he's a jackass even if I haven't watched the video?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:32 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:32 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
For a guy who is so protective of his brand, DJT is a bit myopic. Trump is going to be forever associated with snatching the food away from children and elderly while flying off every weekend to play golf at his own private golf club all on the taxpayers' dime. He has managed to outdo the fat cat capitalists of the gilded era.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [42 favorites]
How can anyone justify to themselves taking food from the mouths of children? It's just sick. Who is the human who does not respond to the idea of a starving child with "we should feed them"? That's just a basic response. I don't care about your political views. Starving people get food. That's not negotiable.
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:37 PM on March 16, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:37 PM on March 16, 2017 [48 favorites]
Republicans would literally rather starve themselves if the alternative is that maybe someone, somewhere, in some theoretical situation, might get something they don't "deserve". Empathy to these people is a zero sum game.
posted by tocts at 4:40 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by tocts at 4:40 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
And fuck you, Mulvaney, there are many studies showing that kids with full stomachs do better at school. This is not some outlandish theory.
Moreover, who the fuck cares if they do or don't do better in school? I just love the disgusting utilitarian framing of this, as if there were no inherent value in and of itself in making kids less hungry. Mick Mulvaney, stone-hearted baby-starver.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
Moreover, who the fuck cares if they do or don't do better in school? I just love the disgusting utilitarian framing of this, as if there were no inherent value in and of itself in making kids less hungry. Mick Mulvaney, stone-hearted baby-starver.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
I hope there are televisions in Hell, and that they only show the Disney channel and NickJr.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:46 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:46 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Video of Mick Mulvaney's smug dismissal of programs that feed hungry schoolchildren
The press have far more control than I because it'd take every ounce of control not to bum rush the stage and knock that motherfucker's block off.
posted by Talez at 4:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
The press have far more control than I because it'd take every ounce of control not to bum rush the stage and knock that motherfucker's block off.
posted by Talez at 4:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
For a guy who is so protective of his brand, DJT is a bit myopic. Trump is going to be forever associated with snatching the food away from children and elderly while flying off every weekend to play golf at his own private golf club all on the taxpayers' dime. He has managed to outdo the fat cat capitalists of the gilded era.
This type of image absolutely needs to be linked to the "stop feeding poor kids" soundbite everywhere, all the time until it's burned into people's retinas.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
This type of image absolutely needs to be linked to the "stop feeding poor kids" soundbite everywhere, all the time until it's burned into people's retinas.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
Also Ivanka eating her diamonds.
posted by Artw at 4:50 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:50 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think that was Melania munching jewelry.
posted by valkane at 4:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
I mean. I can't get over this. We are literally proposing starving hungry kids so some asshole gets a point off the top marginal rate of tax. Making America Great Again? You fucking tell me because right now I don't know what the fuck they're talking about. I'd borrow the Will McAvoy rhetorical answer of Yosemite but I'm pretty sure that's fucking cut as well.
posted by Talez at 4:52 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Talez at 4:52 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
The press have far more control than I because it'd take every ounce of control not to bum rush the stage and knock that motherfucker's block off.
The camera very wisely cut away from Peter Alexander just before his jaw started hanging open and his eyes rolled back in his head. He's really becoming my personal hero in terms of consistently pissing off the Trumpskis by finding all sorts of superficially polite ways to ask, "Are you fucking kidding?"
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:57 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
The camera very wisely cut away from Peter Alexander just before his jaw started hanging open and his eyes rolled back in his head. He's really becoming my personal hero in terms of consistently pissing off the Trumpskis by finding all sorts of superficially polite ways to ask, "Are you fucking kidding?"
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:57 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
We are literally proposing starving hungry kids so some asshole gets a point off the top marginal rate of tax.
Not even that. We're proposing starving hungry kids and seniors so everyone can pay the same amount in tax and we can spend more money on fighter jets and aircraft carriers (plus a few billion for a wall). The part where we cut taxes comes next, and will surely bring with it a fresh new set of horrors.
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
Not even that. We're proposing starving hungry kids and seniors so everyone can pay the same amount in tax and we can spend more money on fighter jets and aircraft carriers (plus a few billion for a wall). The part where we cut taxes comes next, and will surely bring with it a fresh new set of horrors.
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
>Starving people get food. That's not negotiable.
But what if they didn't EARN the food? How are they supposed to build character if you just GIVE it to them? Seriously, I have, God help me, a conservative friend who CANNOT SHUT UP about that teach-a-man-to-fish shit, and who probably thinks this is all fine.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:00 PM on March 16, 2017 [29 favorites]
But what if they didn't EARN the food? How are they supposed to build character if you just GIVE it to them? Seriously, I have, God help me, a conservative friend who CANNOT SHUT UP about that teach-a-man-to-fish shit, and who probably thinks this is all fine.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:00 PM on March 16, 2017 [29 favorites]
Maybe the kids can shoot a grizzly bear for food.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:01 PM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:01 PM on March 16, 2017 [13 favorites]
We're proposing starving hungry kids and seniors so everyone can pay the same amount in tax and we can spend more money on fighter jets and aircraft carriers (plus a few billion for a wall)
Yeah, the tax cut proposals come later.
posted by notyou at 5:02 PM on March 16, 2017
Yeah, the tax cut proposals come later.
posted by notyou at 5:02 PM on March 16, 2017
remind me what christ did with fish, was it the teaching thing or
posted by prefpara at 5:04 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 5:04 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Maybe the kids can break Mulvaney's kneecaps and raid his fridge
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
And let's not sell Mulvaney short -- he actually wants to starve the whole world, not just American kids and old people:
"An American guy named Mulvaney, wearing Shamrock for St Pat's, angrily insisting famine relief is not a priority in his budget. Jesus wept."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [69 favorites]
"An American guy named Mulvaney, wearing Shamrock for St Pat's, angrily insisting famine relief is not a priority in his budget. Jesus wept."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [69 favorites]
Which, speaking of tax cut proposals coming later -- iirc, Machiavelli advised dribbling out the good stuff little by little over time to keep the people satisfied and happy, but doing the awful stuff all at once, so the people will forget their suffering and hate. It seems like Trump's got this ass-backwards (per usual) with the awful coming in dribs and drabs every day, and no good stuff visible anywhere at all.
posted by notyou at 5:06 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by notyou at 5:06 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
WaPo: Tillerson says diplomacy with North Korea has ‘failed’; Pyongyang warns of war
posted by Westringia F. at 5:06 PM on March 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
TOKYO — The Trump administration made a clear break Thursday with diplomatic efforts to talk North Korea out of a nuclear confrontation, bringing the United States and its Asian allies closer to a military response than at any point in more than a decade.(And how, might you ask, is T. Rex's Asia visit to "exchange views on a new approach" going so far?
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said that 20 years of trying to persuade North Korea to abandon its nuclear program had failed and that he was visiting Asia “to exchange views on a new approach.”
Soon after Tillerson’s remarks, in a sign of mounting tensions, the North Korean Embassy held an extraordinary news conference in Beijing to blame the potential for nuclear war on the United States while vowing that its homegrown nuclear testing program will continue in self-defense.
Tillerson did not go to the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo to meet staff Thursday morning, as is often customary. He instead stayed in his hotel, where he read and received briefings from embassy officials, a spokesman said."Trying to spank one out over a shark documentary," as it were.)
posted by Westringia F. at 5:06 PM on March 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
I'm old enough to remember when Conservatives would attack leftists using Stalin letting millions die of starvation and cold because of deliberately bad government policy.
posted by srboisvert at 5:06 PM on March 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 5:06 PM on March 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
>remind me what christ did with fish, was it the teaching thing or
I'm pretty sure when he said 'I will make you fishers of men' he meant 'I will make you fishermen, so that you may feed yourselves; so go ye not onto welfare.' Sorry, I'll just be over here banging my head on the wall if anybody needs me.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:07 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure when he said 'I will make you fishers of men' he meant 'I will make you fishermen, so that you may feed yourselves; so go ye not onto welfare.' Sorry, I'll just be over here banging my head on the wall if anybody needs me.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:07 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
N. Korea just needs a good denouncing every now and then or they throw a dirty protest. It's a pain in the ass but not exactly hard.
posted by Artw at 5:08 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 5:08 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
So mentally ill people should be able to buy machine guns because self-defense is a fundamental human right, but Iran and North Korea shouldn't have nuclear programs because they're dangerous and might hurt somebody.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:09 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:09 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
On the other hand Tillerson blatantly not doing ANYTHING might make him one of the better Trump appointees.
posted by Artw at 5:10 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:10 PM on March 16, 2017 [11 favorites]
I just love the disgusting utilitarian framing of this, as if there were no inherent value in and of itself in making kids less hungry.
It's not utilitarianism that makes the monster (unless you're a utility monster); it's having a shitty utility function.
Seriously, all of these "program x does not provide satisfactory return on investment" criticisms seem to be founded on the incredibly disturbing notion that the one and only legitimate function of a society is the conversion of labor to capital. Even ignoring the basic inhumanity of failing to value everything else, it's incredibly shortsighted. Capital is only given value by human ability to consume it, after all, and what good is it to produce enormous quantities of widgets if everybody hates their lives and is not consoled by the prospect of possessing widgets? What value has your capital then?
Like, yes, Meals on Wheels is far less economically efficient than the "abandon everybody over age 65 with limited mobility to starve to death" plan (although, apparently, more economically efficient than increased Medicare and nursing subsidy, so you have to get a pretty fucking inhuman comparison to even pass the low bar of "not economically efficient"), but the ROI isn't the point of Meals on Wheels. It's not much of a secret that disabled seniors are economically a net minus. We don't keep them around out of some perverse desire to hobble our economy; we keep them around because gaining a small bump in our GDP in exchange for a hypercapitalistic Logan's-Run-esque dystopia sounds like a poor exchange to anyone who gives a shit about literally anything besides economic efficiency.
posted by jackbishop at 5:11 PM on March 16, 2017 [85 favorites]
It's not utilitarianism that makes the monster (unless you're a utility monster); it's having a shitty utility function.
Seriously, all of these "program x does not provide satisfactory return on investment" criticisms seem to be founded on the incredibly disturbing notion that the one and only legitimate function of a society is the conversion of labor to capital. Even ignoring the basic inhumanity of failing to value everything else, it's incredibly shortsighted. Capital is only given value by human ability to consume it, after all, and what good is it to produce enormous quantities of widgets if everybody hates their lives and is not consoled by the prospect of possessing widgets? What value has your capital then?
Like, yes, Meals on Wheels is far less economically efficient than the "abandon everybody over age 65 with limited mobility to starve to death" plan (although, apparently, more economically efficient than increased Medicare and nursing subsidy, so you have to get a pretty fucking inhuman comparison to even pass the low bar of "not economically efficient"), but the ROI isn't the point of Meals on Wheels. It's not much of a secret that disabled seniors are economically a net minus. We don't keep them around out of some perverse desire to hobble our economy; we keep them around because gaining a small bump in our GDP in exchange for a hypercapitalistic Logan's-Run-esque dystopia sounds like a poor exchange to anyone who gives a shit about literally anything besides economic efficiency.
posted by jackbishop at 5:11 PM on March 16, 2017 [85 favorites]
How many kids could we feed if we replaced Tillerson with a rock?
posted by Artw at 5:13 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:13 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
We don't keep them around out of some perverse desire to hobble our economy; we keep them around because gaining a small bump in our GDP in exchange for a hypercapitalistic Logan's-Run-esque dystopia sounds like a poor exchange to anyone who gives a shit about literally anything besides economic efficiency.
So no Republican voters then
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:14 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
So no Republican voters then
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:14 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
So no Republican voters then
Democrats are perfectly capable of electing Republicans. You just start running as a Democrat like Ro Khanna did.
posted by Talez at 5:18 PM on March 16, 2017
Democrats are perfectly capable of electing Republicans. You just start running as a Democrat like Ro Khanna did.
posted by Talez at 5:18 PM on March 16, 2017
I'm old enough to remember when Conservatives would attack leftists using Stalin letting millions die of starvation and cold because of deliberately bad government policy.
I literally cannot imagine this. I mean, I can in theory, but I cannot actually imagine any of the people I grew up around caring that much about people dying of starvation and I certainly cannot imagine elected Republican officials shouting about this.
Wow, there's a thought experiment for you.
posted by sciatrix at 5:26 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
I literally cannot imagine this. I mean, I can in theory, but I cannot actually imagine any of the people I grew up around caring that much about people dying of starvation and I certainly cannot imagine elected Republican officials shouting about this.
Wow, there's a thought experiment for you.
posted by sciatrix at 5:26 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
An American guy named Mulvaney, wearing Shamrock for St Pat's, angrily insisting famine relief is not a priority in his budget. Jesus wept.
For I was hungry and you said, "Fuck you, taker!"
posted by kirkaracha at 5:30 PM on March 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
I'm pretty sure when he said 'I will make you fishers of men' he meant 'I will make you fishermen, so that you may feed yourselves; so go ye not onto welfare.' Sorry, I'll just be over here banging my head on the wall if anybody needs me.
Been a long time since I've been I've been in a church or cracked aBible but I'm pretty sure the "fishers of men" passage was about Jesus training his disciples to recruit followers; the "give a man a fish, you feed him for a day/teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime" is a Chinese proverb (and you still need to feed the person while you teach them, at least from my perspective).
posted by nubs at 5:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Been a long time since I've been I've been in a church or cracked aBible but I'm pretty sure the "fishers of men" passage was about Jesus training his disciples to recruit followers; the "give a man a fish, you feed him for a day/teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime" is a Chinese proverb (and you still need to feed the person while you teach them, at least from my perspective).
posted by nubs at 5:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
How many Trump-Golf-Weekends-At-Mar-A-Lago does the Meals on Wheels program cost per year, anyway? How many golf outings extra will this guy get to have as long as granny has to eat cat food?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Regarding Pence saying "top of the morning", the wonderful Irish comedian, Dara Ó Briain was asked by someone on Twitter if anyone in Ireland actually says this greeting. His reply: An important question with a simple answer. No, of course not. I'd sooner iron my own sack.
posted by vac2003 at 5:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by vac2003 at 5:35 PM on March 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
No, sorry nubs, it's pretty clear Jesus was advocating cannibalism.
posted by notyou at 5:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by notyou at 5:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
give a man a fish, you feed him for a day/teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime
The GOP found a shortcut in telling a man "go learn to fish, you lazy bastard, and stop picking through my pile of fish heads and entrails with your scrawny fingers for gobbets of muscle tissue."
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
The GOP found a shortcut in telling a man "go learn to fish, you lazy bastard, and stop picking through my pile of fish heads and entrails with your scrawny fingers for gobbets of muscle tissue."
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
A Trump Golf Weekend is how many iPhone's again? I can't ever keep the exchange rate straight.
posted by notyou at 5:37 PM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by notyou at 5:37 PM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
How many kids could we feed if we replaced Tillerson with a rock?
"I got Mick Mulvaney."
"I got Scott Pruitt."
"I got a rock."
posted by murphy slaw at 5:38 PM on March 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
"I got Mick Mulvaney."
"I got Scott Pruitt."
"I got a rock."
posted by murphy slaw at 5:38 PM on March 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
Cards Against Humanity LLC need to do a run of these evil motherfuckers as a TCG where two people compete to see who can destroy government and the population first.
posted by Talez at 5:42 PM on March 16, 2017
posted by Talez at 5:42 PM on March 16, 2017
Forget fish...I suspect the Republican party prefers the Terry Pratchett school of thought: "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
posted by uosuaq at 5:43 PM on March 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 5:43 PM on March 16, 2017 [35 favorites]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Trump’s budget makes perfect sense and will fix America, and I will tell you why
Some people are complaining that the budget proffered by the Trump administration, despite its wonderful macho-sounding name, is too vague and makes all sorts of cuts to needed programs in favor of increasing military spending by leaps and bounds. These people are wimps. Office of Management and Budget director Mick Mulvaney has called it a “hard power budget” which is, I think, the name of an exercise program where you eat only what you can catch, pump up your guns and then punch the impoverished in the face. This, conveniently, is also what the budget does.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
>Been a long time since I've been I've been in a church or cracked aBible but I'm pretty sure the "fishers of men" passage was about Jesus training his disciples to recruit followers;
Yeah, I know, I was being funny. People often can't tell when I'm being funny because I'm not very funny (or, alternatively, because this shit isn't very funny).
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I know, I was being funny. People often can't tell when I'm being funny because I'm not very funny (or, alternatively, because this shit isn't very funny).
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
And that's the thing about "liberal hate." When lefties hate our political adversaries, we usually still want them to have, you know, healthcare, voting rights, safe neighborhoods, reproductive freedom, the ability to refrain from getting gay-married if that's how they roll, etc., etc., etc. I mean, walk around wearing a blinking nativity scene on your head if you want. You just can't put one on the city hall lawn. If that makes me Pol Pot, oh well.
Yes, this. I have literally risked my life to save the life of individuals I can't stand. Individuals who not only wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire, but might actually set me on fire. I've been cursed and called every name in the book by the very people whose lives I was saving.
And I did it because they were human beings and human beings shouldn't have to suffer, and should receive medical care and compassion, even when they are useless assholes.
And I did it because some of those assholes came back and thanked me for saving their life a few weeks later when their mental illness was back under control. (And some didn't. And I got really sick of dealing with some of them over and over but I still did it because it was my job and because they were humans.)
The utter lack of compassion for their fellow human beings I see in so many of my countrypeople just astounds me. And the only way i can really understand it is to say that maybe they're just in so much pain themselves they can't spare any caring for anyone else. As a chronic pain sufferer, I understand that (and it's why I had to quit). I want to believe that, but some of them are just sociopaths. (But maybe they're sociopaths because they were abused!....I might have too much empathy, y'all.)
posted by threeturtles at 5:46 PM on March 16, 2017 [56 favorites]
Yes, this. I have literally risked my life to save the life of individuals I can't stand. Individuals who not only wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire, but might actually set me on fire. I've been cursed and called every name in the book by the very people whose lives I was saving.
And I did it because they were human beings and human beings shouldn't have to suffer, and should receive medical care and compassion, even when they are useless assholes.
And I did it because some of those assholes came back and thanked me for saving their life a few weeks later when their mental illness was back under control. (And some didn't. And I got really sick of dealing with some of them over and over but I still did it because it was my job and because they were humans.)
The utter lack of compassion for their fellow human beings I see in so many of my countrypeople just astounds me. And the only way i can really understand it is to say that maybe they're just in so much pain themselves they can't spare any caring for anyone else. As a chronic pain sufferer, I understand that (and it's why I had to quit). I want to believe that, but some of them are just sociopaths. (But maybe they're sociopaths because they were abused!....I might have too much empathy, y'all.)
posted by threeturtles at 5:46 PM on March 16, 2017 [56 favorites]
Feeding kids in after-school programs who might not get another meal requires some evidence that starving kids perform worse on standardized tests. A half million a day in security expenses so that Barron Trump doesn't have to change schools is self-evidently worth spending coal miners' taxes on.
Marie Antoinette's got nothing on these ghouls.
posted by Killick at 5:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [48 favorites]
Marie Antoinette's got nothing on these ghouls.
posted by Killick at 5:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [48 favorites]
The Republicans misheard it as "I will make you vicious old men," and the rest is history...
posted by Devonian at 5:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 5:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
This budget kind of makes sense if you consider that people who don't live to the next election cannot vote against you.
posted by srboisvert at 5:49 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 5:49 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
>give a man a fish, you feed him for a day/teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime
Of course, if huge corporations have lobbied to have laws passed saying that they own any fish that you catch, and all you can do is get a job catching fish for them, but they only give you 39 hours so you can't get benefits, and they also lobby to have the fishing industry deregulated so they don't have to give you a pole, and can instead just make you jump into the rapids where the sharp rocks are and fish with your bare hands, and then when you end up with a disabling injury they replace you with a fishing robot anyway and impugn your life choices, then IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER IF YOU KNOW HOW TO FISH OR NOT NOW DOES IT.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:49 PM on March 16, 2017 [46 favorites]
Of course, if huge corporations have lobbied to have laws passed saying that they own any fish that you catch, and all you can do is get a job catching fish for them, but they only give you 39 hours so you can't get benefits, and they also lobby to have the fishing industry deregulated so they don't have to give you a pole, and can instead just make you jump into the rapids where the sharp rocks are and fish with your bare hands, and then when you end up with a disabling injury they replace you with a fishing robot anyway and impugn your life choices, then IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER IF YOU KNOW HOW TO FISH OR NOT NOW DOES IT.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:49 PM on March 16, 2017 [46 favorites]
Unfortunately the EPA was shut down so the fish are full of heavy metals and dioxins. Also a rich person shoots you for poaching.
posted by Artw at 5:49 PM on March 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:49 PM on March 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
This budget kind of makes sense if you consider that people who don't live to the next election cannot vote against you.
Honestly I veer between "they're not planning for the next election" and "they're planning something really sinister for the next election".
posted by Artw at 5:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Honestly I veer between "they're not planning for the next election" and "they're planning something really sinister for the next election".
posted by Artw at 5:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
I find this cute animal video soothing.
(facebook link. spolier: is a chihuahua humping a donald trump doll in the face. maybe nsfw but if so i would quit that job)
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:02 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
(facebook link. spolier: is a chihuahua humping a donald trump doll in the face. maybe nsfw but if so i would quit that job)
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:02 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Or "they're not planning on a next election."
posted by kirkaracha at 6:02 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 6:02 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
"I got Mick Mulvaney."
"I got Scott Pruitt."
"I got a rock."
Now I'm not feeling like the kid who got the rock had such a bad deal after all.
posted by scalefree at 6:28 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
"I got Scott Pruitt."
"I got a rock."
Now I'm not feeling like the kid who got the rock had such a bad deal after all.
posted by scalefree at 6:28 PM on March 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
More Holy Fucking Shit WTFness.
Trump Sends Hate Group Leader to U.N. Women’s Commission, Echoing George W. Bush
On Monday, the State Department revealed the list of people who will represent the U.S. at the U.N. Commission on the Status of Women (CSW) this week and next. They include a senior executive from a known hate group and a leader at an organization that works against grants to address violence against women.
One delegate, Lisa Correnti, is an executive vice president at the Center for Family & Human Rights (C-FAM), which the Southern Poverty Law Center has labeled a hate group since 2014. C-FAM was explicitly formed in the ‘90s to push back against the rights of women in U.N. resolutions and policies. One of C-FAM’s core missions is to advance laws that restrict the rights and protections of LGBTQ people; its president recently called contraception and gay rights “devilish gospel.” The organization signed on in favor of Russia’s anti-gay laws, which have led to arrests, prosecution, and physical assaults from government agents for gay Russians.
The Heritage Foundation will send to the CSW Grace Melton, the organization’s associate for U.N. social issues and the author behind such riveting texts as “In Bed with Radical Feminists: The U.N.’s Misguided Women’s Agenda.” Her employer is one of the most high-profile anti-LGBTQ organizations in the country. The foundation likes to argue that laws preventing any kind of discrimination—in schools, housing, and employment, for instance—against LGBTQ people grant them “special privileges” and are contrary to the values of the United States. Heritage takes a special interest in advocating against protections for transgender people and insurance coverage for contraception. In advocating for the repeal of the Violence Against Women Act, the Heritage Foundation has called grants that fund the prevention of and response to violence against women “a misuse of federal resources and a distraction from concerns that truly are the province of federal government,” claiming that the act is “watering down services” by including funds for incarcerated survivors of abuse. When Trump proposed cutting all 25 federal grant programs managed by the Office on Violence Against Women, it was under the advice of the Heritage Foundation.
Absolutely fucking sickening but par for the course with these Deplorables.
posted by futz at 6:31 PM on March 16, 2017 [69 favorites]
Trump Sends Hate Group Leader to U.N. Women’s Commission, Echoing George W. Bush
On Monday, the State Department revealed the list of people who will represent the U.S. at the U.N. Commission on the Status of Women (CSW) this week and next. They include a senior executive from a known hate group and a leader at an organization that works against grants to address violence against women.
One delegate, Lisa Correnti, is an executive vice president at the Center for Family & Human Rights (C-FAM), which the Southern Poverty Law Center has labeled a hate group since 2014. C-FAM was explicitly formed in the ‘90s to push back against the rights of women in U.N. resolutions and policies. One of C-FAM’s core missions is to advance laws that restrict the rights and protections of LGBTQ people; its president recently called contraception and gay rights “devilish gospel.” The organization signed on in favor of Russia’s anti-gay laws, which have led to arrests, prosecution, and physical assaults from government agents for gay Russians.
The Heritage Foundation will send to the CSW Grace Melton, the organization’s associate for U.N. social issues and the author behind such riveting texts as “In Bed with Radical Feminists: The U.N.’s Misguided Women’s Agenda.” Her employer is one of the most high-profile anti-LGBTQ organizations in the country. The foundation likes to argue that laws preventing any kind of discrimination—in schools, housing, and employment, for instance—against LGBTQ people grant them “special privileges” and are contrary to the values of the United States. Heritage takes a special interest in advocating against protections for transgender people and insurance coverage for contraception. In advocating for the repeal of the Violence Against Women Act, the Heritage Foundation has called grants that fund the prevention of and response to violence against women “a misuse of federal resources and a distraction from concerns that truly are the province of federal government,” claiming that the act is “watering down services” by including funds for incarcerated survivors of abuse. When Trump proposed cutting all 25 federal grant programs managed by the Office on Violence Against Women, it was under the advice of the Heritage Foundation.
Absolutely fucking sickening but par for the course with these Deplorables.
posted by futz at 6:31 PM on March 16, 2017 [69 favorites]
Yeah, I know, I was being funny. People often can't tell when I'm being funny because I'm not very funny (or, alternatively, because this shit isn't very funny).
Sorry. I suffer from the same affliction plus an increasingly pedantic need to over-explain shit. I think it's a stress reaction to all the [fake] these days. Let's go split a heavy metal infused fish and a loaf of bread together; I think if we do it right we can share with the whole thread.
posted by nubs at 6:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sorry. I suffer from the same affliction plus an increasingly pedantic need to over-explain shit. I think it's a stress reaction to all the [fake] these days. Let's go split a heavy metal infused fish and a loaf of bread together; I think if we do it right we can share with the whole thread.
posted by nubs at 6:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
jesus fucking christ, futz
we are the evil empire
what a horrorshow
posted by prefpara at 6:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
we are the evil empire
what a horrorshow
posted by prefpara at 6:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump Sends Hate Group Leader to U.N. Women’s Commission, Echoing George W. Bush
Please Ms Stein, explain to us again about the parties being essentially the same.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
Please Ms Stein, explain to us again about the parties being essentially the same.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:34 PM on March 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
we are the evil empire
what a horrorshow
and
Please Ms Stein, explain to us again about the parties being essentially the same.
But see? Now look at how terrible we are! We DEFINITELY have to destroy America!
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:39 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
what a horrorshow
and
Please Ms Stein, explain to us again about the parties being essentially the same.
But see? Now look at how terrible we are! We DEFINITELY have to destroy America!
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:39 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
But her emails, you guys!
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:40 PM on March 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:40 PM on March 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
Just following Putin's lead in normalizing and decriminalizing violence against women.
posted by benzenedream at 6:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 6:44 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
if you want to see someone defending this budget as a Christian (you don't): link
posted by prefpara at 6:45 PM on March 16, 2017
posted by prefpara at 6:45 PM on March 16, 2017
Trump wasn't satisfied with all the neo-Nazis & para-Nazis surrounding his administration so he went & found himself an actual Nazi to bring into the White House.
posted by scalefree at 6:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 6:47 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
That has been linked to a few times already plus other discussion upthread. Does anyone know if Spicer was asked a question about it today?
posted by futz at 6:51 PM on March 16, 2017
posted by futz at 6:51 PM on March 16, 2017
Spicer was not. There was some pushback on the Gorka Story in Tablet Magazine, including a quote from Gorka and a quote from an anonymous source who everyone agrees sounds suspiciously like Gorka talking about himself in the third person.
posted by zachlipton at 6:54 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:54 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ah ha.. Found it, maybe. According to this infographic the MoW program spends $1.46bn/yr, close to half of that ($517m) coming from the OAA via the CDBG. So, it's 156 golf outings, or 468,000 iPhones.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:55 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:55 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
WaPo: Whom to trust when it comes to health-care reform? Trump supporters put their faith in him, in which Trumpists in Nashville are interviewed about health care and produce some pretty wild quotes, including one guy, identified by name, who admits to committing tax fraud (claiming he has insurance when he does not, though whether he'd actually have to pay the penalty depends on his income and such), and this:
Ware is a landscaper and often works near Section 8 housing in the Nashville area, and she becomes furious when she sees residents who “drive better cars than I do, they have weaves and hair color better than I can, they have manicures.” As Ware, who is white, waited in line for the rally to start, a group of young African American protesters walked by, and she yelled at them, “Go cash your welfare checks!”posted by zachlipton at 6:59 PM on March 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
“He [her son] gets penalized on his income taxes, while these people that don’t know how to pull their pants up can go get it for free,” said Ware, whose employer covers the full cost of her health care. “Make it even. Make it balanced.”
What was that about "Fuck miners?"
“Trump seeks to ax Appalachia economic programs, causing worry in coal country,” Valerie Volcovici, Reuters, 16 March 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 7:02 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
“Trump seeks to ax Appalachia economic programs, causing worry in coal country,” Valerie Volcovici, Reuters, 16 March 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 7:02 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
What was that about "Fuck miners?"
"We're metaphorically fucking both miners and minors so phonetic distinctions are irrelevant" [fake]
posted by Talez at 7:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
"We're metaphorically fucking both miners and minors so phonetic distinctions are irrelevant" [fake]
posted by Talez at 7:05 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump loves to read: "Well, you know, I love to read. Actually, I'm looking at a book, I'm reading a book, I'm trying to get started."
Speaking of reading, Trump bumbled through reading an "Irish proverb" today, but nobody in Ireland has heard of it, perhaps because it seems to have been written by a Nigerian poet.
posted by zachlipton at 7:09 PM on March 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
Speaking of reading, Trump bumbled through reading an "Irish proverb" today, but nobody in Ireland has heard of it, perhaps because it seems to have been written by a Nigerian poet.
posted by zachlipton at 7:09 PM on March 16, 2017 [21 favorites]
I'm apprehensive whenever I open an article about Tennessee nazis, cause I know there's a chance that one of the people quoted will be related to me.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:11 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:11 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
"Well, you know, I love to read. Actually, I'm looking at a book, I'm reading a book, I'm trying to get started."
Sometimes I get a dull dawning realization that this era is actually making me dumber with each passing day but then I get distracted with petting the soft fur of this rabbit
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
Sometimes I get a dull dawning realization that this era is actually making me dumber with each passing day but then I get distracted with petting the soft fur of this rabbit
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
Can the U. N. Commission refuse to admit those assholes?
posted by emjaybee at 7:17 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by emjaybee at 7:17 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Details on how MoW works here. The program estimates it saves $34 billion in medical expenses a year simply by preventing falls, and of course it also functions as a welfare check.
posted by emjaybee at 7:21 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 7:21 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
Look people, when you don't read each and every comment in the thread you insult the Tehhund in all of us.
Has the storey about Oklahoma State Senator Ralph "Don't You Bring Me No Fetuses In My Food" Shortey been mentioned? Well obviously not because the photo
Shortey posed for a photo with Donald Trump Jr. posted to the state Senator's Facebook page on March 10 — a day after the motel incident. (FACEBOOK)
is GOP gold.
Oh, no wait
The Oklahoma Senate on Wednesday imposed sanctions against Shortey, voting unanimously for a resolution that accuses him of “disorderly conduct.”
The resolution forces the politician out of his office, strips him of leadership roles on several Senate committees, and blocks him from penning new bills.
. . . Senate officials told Fox News Shortey would still be allowed to vote and that he will continue to receive his $38,400 annual salary as a senator.
Okay that's GOP gold.
posted by petebest at 7:22 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Has the storey about Oklahoma State Senator Ralph "Don't You Bring Me No Fetuses In My Food" Shortey been mentioned? Well obviously not because the photo
Shortey posed for a photo with Donald Trump Jr. posted to the state Senator's Facebook page on March 10 — a day after the motel incident. (FACEBOOK)
is GOP gold.
Oh, no wait
The Oklahoma Senate on Wednesday imposed sanctions against Shortey, voting unanimously for a resolution that accuses him of “disorderly conduct.”
The resolution forces the politician out of his office, strips him of leadership roles on several Senate committees, and blocks him from penning new bills.
. . . Senate officials told Fox News Shortey would still be allowed to vote and that he will continue to receive his $38,400 annual salary as a senator.
Okay that's GOP gold.
posted by petebest at 7:22 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
WaPo: Whom to trust when it comes to health-care reform? Trump supporters put their faith in him
I snarked a bunch, and there's plenty of awfulness in this article, but a small portion of it between the ridiculousness does highlight one reality, which is that the ACA hasn't been crazy helpful for a particularly defined group of people in states like Tennessee: older folks who don't have employer-provided health insurance and make too much to qualify for subsidies and not so much that premiums are fairly insignificant expenses who live in certain high-medical-cost areas where there's minimal competition (whew). Since these people pay the unsubsidized price, they're seeing fairly significant premium increases. What's missing, though is that these people were screwed before the ACA too: there weren't exactly a surplus of affordable comprehensive coverage options (if there was were at all) on the individual market in Tennessee for a 60-something couple with anything on their medical history. They don't like the options they're seeing now, but the individual market was near non-existent in many states before the ACA already.
Some of this is by design––the ACA prioritized a much larger group of those more in need––, some is due to sabotage of the ACA (leading to rising premiums), and some is just due to the fact that health insurance premiums rose very fast before the ACA and that didn't magically stop happening, except we blame the government for it now.
The problem is that there are plenty of things we could do to throw these people a bone without knocking tens of millions of other people off their insurance, but that would mean not trying to hasten the death of poor people, so such plans are never considered.
posted by zachlipton at 7:24 PM on March 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
I snarked a bunch, and there's plenty of awfulness in this article, but a small portion of it between the ridiculousness does highlight one reality, which is that the ACA hasn't been crazy helpful for a particularly defined group of people in states like Tennessee: older folks who don't have employer-provided health insurance and make too much to qualify for subsidies and not so much that premiums are fairly insignificant expenses who live in certain high-medical-cost areas where there's minimal competition (whew). Since these people pay the unsubsidized price, they're seeing fairly significant premium increases. What's missing, though is that these people were screwed before the ACA too: there weren't exactly a surplus of affordable comprehensive coverage options (if there was were at all) on the individual market in Tennessee for a 60-something couple with anything on their medical history. They don't like the options they're seeing now, but the individual market was near non-existent in many states before the ACA already.
Some of this is by design––the ACA prioritized a much larger group of those more in need––, some is due to sabotage of the ACA (leading to rising premiums), and some is just due to the fact that health insurance premiums rose very fast before the ACA and that didn't magically stop happening, except we blame the government for it now.
The problem is that there are plenty of things we could do to throw these people a bone without knocking tens of millions of other people off their insurance, but that would mean not trying to hasten the death of poor people, so such plans are never considered.
posted by zachlipton at 7:24 PM on March 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
These people are freaking idiot savants of evil. No matter how small the tiny ray of light, or how minuscule the good thing, they will find it and fuck it up.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:25 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 7:25 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
>Senate officials told Fox News Shortey would still be allowed to vote and that he will continue to receive his $38,400 annual salary as a senator.
Will this be paid for by the coal miners who were mentioned earlier as not wanting to shell out for PBS? Will the GOP be reaching out to them to see which they would pick to not pay for, if they could only have one?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:26 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Will this be paid for by the coal miners who were mentioned earlier as not wanting to shell out for PBS? Will the GOP be reaching out to them to see which they would pick to not pay for, if they could only have one?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:26 PM on March 16, 2017 [10 favorites]
Dylan Matthews: Donald Trump's first budget outline, explained
Budgets are moral documents, and Trump’s is a moral failure
posted by homunculus at 7:26 PM on March 16, 2017 [31 favorites]
Budgets are moral documents, and Trump’s is a moral failure
What President Donald Trump released on Thursday is not a full budget. It doesn’t touch on taxes, or on entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, or food stamps. It concerns itself exclusively with the third of the budget that’s allocated through the annual appropriations process.Vox Sentences: This budget won’t become law. Read it as what it is: a manifesto.
But it’s a moral document nonetheless. And the moral consequences of its implementation would be profound, and negative. The fact that it will not be implemented in full — that Congress is almost certain not to go along with many of its recommendations — in no way detracts from what it tells us about the administration’s priorities, and its ethics.
posted by homunculus at 7:26 PM on March 16, 2017 [31 favorites]
Mick Mulvaney is a goddamn sociopath
Both I and this guy had a Catholic education and I just... How?!
Me too. My theory is a Catholic education either teaches you a complex morality and sense of service to your community or it makes you really good at getting away with immoral shit. Or possibly both. *shifty eyes*
But seriously I came out of Catholic school a bisexual, Pagan goth who devoted her life to social service of those less fortunate.
posted by threeturtles at 7:27 PM on March 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
Both I and this guy had a Catholic education and I just... How?!
Me too. My theory is a Catholic education either teaches you a complex morality and sense of service to your community or it makes you really good at getting away with immoral shit. Or possibly both. *shifty eyes*
But seriously I came out of Catholic school a bisexual, Pagan goth who devoted her life to social service of those less fortunate.
posted by threeturtles at 7:27 PM on March 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
Rep. Arrington (R-Texas) quoted the bible during the Budget Committee vote on the AHCA (and it is being called Trumpcare by both parties). The amendment was to have a work requirement for all able bodied individuals to qualify for medicaid. To defend this he chose;
2nd Thessalonians 3:10 - If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. For we hear some walk in idleness.
posted by phoque at 7:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
2nd Thessalonians 3:10 - If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. For we hear some walk in idleness.
posted by phoque at 7:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Meals on Wheels is ‘not showing any results’ only if you ignore all these results
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:36 PM on March 16, 2017 [17 favorites]
Yeah, I'm a bisexual atheist (second generation, I went to Catholic because it was an affordable private school, not because my parents are religious) socialist. My parents are Objectivists but my Catholic high school was run by liberation theologists (unbeknownst to my parents lolol) and guess whose side I came out on. We watched Romero and Jesus Christ Superstar in religion class. Politically conservative Catholicism baffles me.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:38 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:38 PM on March 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
a small portion of it between the ridiculousness does highlight one reality, which is that the ACA hasn't been crazy helpful for a particularly defined group of people in states like Tennessee: older folks who don't have employer-provided health insurance and make too much to qualify for subsidies and not so much that premiums are fairly insignificant expenses who live in certain high-medical-cost areas where there's minimal competition (whew). Since these people pay the unsubsidized price, they're seeing fairly significant premium increases.
This is exactly what things like Medicare early buy-in would've solved. Republicans (and Joe Lieberman) killed that in the ACA. It could still be added in now as part of actual ACA improvements, but instead they'd rather end Medicaid to pay for tax cuts for the rich.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:39 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is exactly what things like Medicare early buy-in would've solved. Republicans (and Joe Lieberman) killed that in the ACA. It could still be added in now as part of actual ACA improvements, but instead they'd rather end Medicaid to pay for tax cuts for the rich.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:39 PM on March 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Well, at least I can load political threads on my phone for heat.
posted by BS Artisan at 7:49 PM on March 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by BS Artisan at 7:49 PM on March 16, 2017 [28 favorites]
This is good work by Buzzfeed: Why Is Donald Trump So Obsessed With Surveillance?. It's Trump's Mirror once again. One of the interesting things about Trump's wiretapping allegations is that he's long been obsessed with the topic and carrying it out himself, including reports he'd eavesdrop on employee calls at Mar-a-Lago. And this about his hotel:
Trump himself has claimed that he possesses information on the personal lives of his hotel guests. In a little noticed passage in his 2000 book The America We Deserve, Trump wrote that he knew of at least one conservative senator who had “spent more than a few nights with his twenty-something girlfriend at a hotel I own.” He also wrote that a married conservative columnist “brought his girlfriend to my resorts for the weekend.”posted by zachlipton at 7:59 PM on March 16, 2017 [16 favorites]
including a quote from Gorka and a quote from an anonymous source who everyone agrees sounds suspiciously like Gorka talking about himself in the third person.
I can actually imagine that Young Chinmerkin Gorka was quite enamoured by being a Hungarian "hereditary knight" with the medals and titles and whatnot, and the whole fascist secret society bit sort of washed over him. A bit like Pete King and the Provos. Authoritarian cosplay: they're not the ones kneecapping people.
posted by holgate at 8:03 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I can actually imagine that Young Chinmerkin Gorka was quite enamoured by being a Hungarian "hereditary knight" with the medals and titles and whatnot, and the whole fascist secret society bit sort of washed over him. A bit like Pete King and the Provos. Authoritarian cosplay: they're not the ones kneecapping people.
posted by holgate at 8:03 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
A Security Expert Warned Congress That T-Mobile's DC Cell Network Has Been Hacked
posted by futz at 8:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by futz at 8:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's like they're itching to use Swift's A Modest Proposal as a playbook.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 8:16 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 8:16 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
California's top judge tells ICE to stop 'stalking' local courthouses
posted by futz at 8:28 PM on March 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by futz at 8:28 PM on March 16, 2017 [27 favorites]
I would just like to say that those animal videos involving corgis racing and bunnies hopping and Percy the lost and found cat on other MeFi links are super helping right now.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:33 PM on March 16, 2017 [5 favorites]
The sneaky way the Trump administration is chilling government oversight: The inspectors general aren’t often in the news, but they’re a critical part of government oversight.
posted by homunculus at 8:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 8:41 PM on March 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
So, I don't know what sort of weird tracking Amazon has going on, but I just went to look for an anniversary present for my husband, I got distracted and the next thing I knew, Amazon was suggesting that what I really came there to buy was a $109,000 painting of Putin. With obligatory tiger. And cobra. And vulture. And jackal? Mice? Rats? Crocodiles? I dunno, a veritable ark.
I mean, I was going to buy the Hicks translation of Meditations, but man...a Putin painting...it's a tough decision.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:45 PM on March 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
I mean, I was going to buy the Hicks translation of Meditations, but man...a Putin painting...it's a tough decision.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:45 PM on March 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
2nd Thessalonians 3:10 - If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. For we hear some walk in idleness."
Without the social safety net, those who will not work will not get fed, but by not feeding them you're violating one of the pretty big principles of "Live by our example," and therefore, believers should shun you.
But hey, note how this only says to keep every believer who is idle etc. etc. Not a believer, so if I could have the social safety net, that'd be great.
I honestly wonder how much of our shitty culture comes from the Bible being long and boring but full of pithy zingers that no one bothers to learn the context for.
posted by klangklangston at 8:52 PM on March 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”By restricting the right of people to such help, you eliminate the chance for them to imitate. (Abstract you, sorry.)
Without the social safety net, those who will not work will not get fed, but by not feeding them you're violating one of the pretty big principles of "Live by our example," and therefore, believers should shun you.
But hey, note how this only says to keep every believer who is idle etc. etc. Not a believer, so if I could have the social safety net, that'd be great.
I honestly wonder how much of our shitty culture comes from the Bible being long and boring but full of pithy zingers that no one bothers to learn the context for.
posted by klangklangston at 8:52 PM on March 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
so uh has anybody mentioned this yet? Because, uh
Hannity Brought a Gun to Work at Fox News, Reportedly Pointed It at Colleague Juan Williams on Set
Last year, after ending one of his many spirited on-air arguments with liberal contributor Juan Williams, Hannity pulled out a gun and pointed it directly at Williams, according to three sources with knowledge of the incident,” according to CNN. “He even turned on the laser sight, causing a red dot to bob around on Williams' body. (Hannity was just showing off, the sources said, but the unforeseen off-camera antic clearly disturbed Williams and others on set.)
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:59 PM on March 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
Hannity Brought a Gun to Work at Fox News, Reportedly Pointed It at Colleague Juan Williams on Set
Last year, after ending one of his many spirited on-air arguments with liberal contributor Juan Williams, Hannity pulled out a gun and pointed it directly at Williams, according to three sources with knowledge of the incident,” according to CNN. “He even turned on the laser sight, causing a red dot to bob around on Williams' body. (Hannity was just showing off, the sources said, but the unforeseen off-camera antic clearly disturbed Williams and others on set.)
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:59 PM on March 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
virginia is up for grabs this year. (so is new jersey, but i know much less about that.) for the house of delegates in my part of the world we have sam rasoul running for reelection in the 6th, bryan keele and steve mcbride in the 8th (a democratic primary in the 8th! that is unreal. i am so glad i do not live there and have to choose between two great dudes in the june primary. ) and in the 17th, djuna osbourne, who organized the local women's march. these are all true grassroots candidates, and they all seem absolutely determined, and it is very heartening.
and of course for the governor race we have a choice between ralph northam and tom perriello. both good choices, really. hell, there's like three choices for the lieutenant governor. stuff is already happening. keep these folks in mind, maybe kick them some cash, and watch virginia. i have the feeling that it's gonna be the canary in the coal mine with regards to the midterms.
anyway there's an embarrassment of talent being thrown this way, and a bit of money, and I truly think southwestern virginia is the best possible place to be this year in terms of making a difference. it's going to be very interesting indeed. i am so glad i get to fight back so soon.
posted by dogheart at 9:01 PM on March 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
and of course for the governor race we have a choice between ralph northam and tom perriello. both good choices, really. hell, there's like three choices for the lieutenant governor. stuff is already happening. keep these folks in mind, maybe kick them some cash, and watch virginia. i have the feeling that it's gonna be the canary in the coal mine with regards to the midterms.
anyway there's an embarrassment of talent being thrown this way, and a bit of money, and I truly think southwestern virginia is the best possible place to be this year in terms of making a difference. it's going to be very interesting indeed. i am so glad i get to fight back so soon.
posted by dogheart at 9:01 PM on March 16, 2017 [14 favorites]
"I have family here, second and third generation Irish. Their family came here as immigrants once," Shauna says. "They're the first to put on their green T-shirt on St Patrick's Day, but at the same time will turn around and say 'get every undocumented immigrant out of this country.'""White, Irish and Undocumented in America" -- a CNN piece on how Irish visa overstayers in tight communities like NYC's Woodlawn might not be the focus of anti-immigrant anger and ICE action, but still feel vulnerable:
"I turn and look at them and say, I'm undocumented," she says, "they don't see it that way because I'm not brown and I'm not from Mexico, they see me differently. It's disgusting."
posted by holgate at 9:02 PM on March 16, 2017 [26 favorites]
"I'm a proud @NRA member because there's no group in America that teaches gun safety more than the NRA." -- @seanhannity
I'm sure they'll be revoking his membership and Responsible Gun Owner® badge any time...
posted by holgate at 9:06 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm sure they'll be revoking his membership and Responsible Gun Owner® badge any time...
posted by holgate at 9:06 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
The problem is that there are plenty of things we could do to throw these people a bone without knocking tens of millions of other people off their insurance, but that would mean not trying to hasten the death of poor people, so such plans are never considered.
A quickie suggestion is to raise the federal poverty level by 5,000. Since existing ACA subsidies go nearly up to 4x the poverty level before phasing out completely, this would stretch subsidies for salaries up to 20k greater (than where they phase out now.) This would extend help to a lot more working class and middle class people. Unfortunately I can neither print magic legislation nor print magic money. (sigh)
posted by puddledork at 9:09 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
A quickie suggestion is to raise the federal poverty level by 5,000. Since existing ACA subsidies go nearly up to 4x the poverty level before phasing out completely, this would stretch subsidies for salaries up to 20k greater (than where they phase out now.) This would extend help to a lot more working class and middle class people. Unfortunately I can neither print magic legislation nor print magic money. (sigh)
posted by puddledork at 9:09 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
> Speaking of reading, Trump bumbled through reading an "Irish proverb" today, but nobody in Ireland has heard of it, perhaps because it seems to have been written by a Nigerian poet.
Full video (youtube, poem starts @ 2:18). Edit abuse: Random 2014 blog post crediting Alhassan.
posted by christopherious at 9:10 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Full video (youtube, poem starts @ 2:18). Edit abuse: Random 2014 blog post crediting Alhassan.
posted by christopherious at 9:10 PM on March 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
"I have family here, second and third generation Irish. Their family came here as immigrants once," Shauna says. "They're the first to put on their green T-shirt on St Patrick's Day, but at the same time will turn around and say 'get every undocumented immigrant out of this country.'"
This is absolutely why I am so incredibly angry at the people who raised me. How dare you proudly recite your family's lineage and history and all your, your fucking Irish-American ties and you sing your fucking Thousands are Sailing--how dare you be so fucking proud of your Irish-American heritage while you reject this century's desperate and poor immigrants yearning to be free? How does that cognitive dissonance not sink in? How can people be so blind?
How dare you? How have you forgotten where you came from? How have you people, blinded with your, your green glitter and your fucking Donny Boy soundtracks--how have you forgotten who you are and where you came from to such a startling degree? And how have you forgotten the price your ancestors paid, and self-satisfiedly try to hike it higher and farther to gouge those who came after you?
How dare you.
posted by sciatrix at 9:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [93 favorites]
This is absolutely why I am so incredibly angry at the people who raised me. How dare you proudly recite your family's lineage and history and all your, your fucking Irish-American ties and you sing your fucking Thousands are Sailing--how dare you be so fucking proud of your Irish-American heritage while you reject this century's desperate and poor immigrants yearning to be free? How does that cognitive dissonance not sink in? How can people be so blind?
How dare you? How have you forgotten where you came from? How have you people, blinded with your, your green glitter and your fucking Donny Boy soundtracks--how have you forgotten who you are and where you came from to such a startling degree? And how have you forgotten the price your ancestors paid, and self-satisfiedly try to hike it higher and farther to gouge those who came after you?
How dare you.
posted by sciatrix at 9:12 PM on March 16, 2017 [93 favorites]
Well, you know, I love to read. Actually, I'm looking at a book, I'm reading a book, I'm trying to get started
my reaction
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:17 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
my reaction
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:17 PM on March 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
I've never even held a gun and I know that that's a prime directive violation, gun safety wise. In the South they teach 9 year olds that you never point a gun at anything you are not going to shoot, guns can load themselves, some other stuff I forgot because I don't have any guns, and you sure as hell don't play games with them pointing them at your co-workers.
posted by thelonius at 9:25 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 9:25 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
I wonder how gun-happy the Fox people are feeling right now?
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:27 PM on March 16, 2017
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:27 PM on March 16, 2017
How dare you? How have you forgotten where you came from?
On that note, Fintan O'Toole wrote two op-eds recently: one for the Irish Times, excoriating the hypocrisy of Irish political leaders on their annual fiddle-de-dee jamboree to DC, and one for the NYT, aimed at the self-identifying Irish-Americans in high office:
posted by holgate at 9:31 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
On that note, Fintan O'Toole wrote two op-eds recently: one for the Irish Times, excoriating the hypocrisy of Irish political leaders on their annual fiddle-de-dee jamboree to DC, and one for the NYT, aimed at the self-identifying Irish-Americans in high office:
If we are not to collude in this obnoxious distinction, people of Irish descent must celebrate their heritage in a radically different way: as the ultimate rebuke to a paranoid frenzy about immigration. We Irish are not Know Nothings. We know something important: what it’s like to be feared, to be discriminated against, to be stereotyped. We know from our own family histories that anti-immigrant hysteria is founded on lies. And we know that, over time, those lies are exposed. Yesterday’s alien is today’s workmate; yesterday’s pariah is today’s patriot.As someone of Irish patrilineal descent, with an obviously Irish last name, and with lots of actual Irish friends, St Shamrock Shake's Day in the US is always weird, but especially so this year.
posted by holgate at 9:31 PM on March 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
Interesting report from deepest red northern Alabama. Sounds like Indivisible is at least putting some pressure on reps and helping candidate recruitment.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:46 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 9:46 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Hannity Brought a Gun to Work at Fox News, Reportedly Pointed It at Colleague Juan Williams on Set
Relax. I'm sure this will turn out exactly the same way it would have if the black guy had pointed a gun at the white guy.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:03 PM on March 16, 2017 [38 favorites]
I've never even held a gun and I know that that's a prime directive violation, gun safety wise. In the South they teach 9 year olds that you never point a gun at anything you are not going to shoot, guns can load themselves, some other stuff I forgot because I don't have any guns, and you sure as hell don't play games with them pointing them at your co-workers.
Cooper's Rules of Gun Safety LITERALLY begins with, "Treat every gun as if it's loaded", which eliminates pretty much every injury from negligent discharge. Because there are no accidents with firearms.
RULE 1: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE 2: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY
RULE 3: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER TIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE 4: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
posted by mikelieman at 10:28 PM on March 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
Cooper's Rules of Gun Safety LITERALLY begins with, "Treat every gun as if it's loaded", which eliminates pretty much every injury from negligent discharge. Because there are no accidents with firearms.
RULE 1: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE 2: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY
RULE 3: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER TIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE 4: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
posted by mikelieman at 10:28 PM on March 16, 2017 [34 favorites]
you know, if we're going to be this close to midnight on the doomsday clock again, the least ye gods could give us is fantastic music and art, because i read somewhere that artistic output is the greatest when times are the hardest, so if you could hook that up, that'd be great, kthxbai
posted by CommonSense at 10:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by CommonSense at 10:51 PM on March 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Trumpism is losing, again and again
Trump’s polling numbers in the latest Fox News poll reflect his lack of success to date. His approval is down to 43 percent (from 48 percent) and his disapproval is up to 51 percent (up from 47 percent). On the topics on which he has been focused the voters give him thumbs down: immigration (41/ 56 percent); health care (35/55 percent); Russia (33/55 percent); penalizing sanctuary cities (41/53 percent) and his travel ban (34/54 percent). Ironically, voters are most pleased with the economy — “By a 19-point margin, voters feel the economy is getting better rather than worse for their family (48-29 percent)” — for which Trump can claim very little credit. (He gets a slim plurality of support, 47-44 percent, for an economy he inherited.)posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:57 PM on March 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
In short, nativistic nationalism does not function well in the real world.
LAT: Trolling the Tweeter in Chief: California congressman stands up to Trump, using the president's favorite weapon
“Michelle Obama had that beautiful line, ‘When they go low, we go high,’” said Lieu. “I thought about it a lot. But I also thought, ‘We lost the election.’ My view now is that when they go low, we fight back.”posted by Room 641-A at 11:11 PM on March 16, 2017 [91 favorites]
“Dear @steveKingIA: You know what makes America great?” Lieu tweeted. “You get to make obscene comments and I get to call you a stark, raving racist.”
i just installed the "gun to cat" browser extension and it improved this thread markedly
posted by indubitable at 12:00 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by indubitable at 12:00 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
folks when michelle obama said "we go high" are we absolutely sure she wasn't talking about throwing uppercuts
posted by murphy slaw at 12:27 AM on March 17, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 12:27 AM on March 17, 2017 [49 favorites]
In GOP dream America wouldn't Williams be justified in pulling out his own firearm (if he owned one) and putting a double tap into Hannity's chest the second Hannity pointed a gun at him?
posted by PenDevil at 12:51 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 12:51 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
In GOP dream America wouldn't Williams be justified in pulling out his own firearm (if he owned one) and putting a double tap into Hannity's chest the second Hannity pointed a gun at him?
Only if Hannity was a thug. The question of if and why Hannity can be said to be or not to be a thug is left to the reader.
posted by jaduncan at 2:12 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Only if Hannity was a thug. The question of if and why Hannity can be said to be or not to be a thug is left to the reader.
posted by jaduncan at 2:12 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump has posted a remarkable video to mark St Patrick’s Day. I can only assume he edited it himself.
Dara O Briain: ‘I'm welling up here. The only thing more Irish than "Amazing grace" on the bagpipes is the Throat Singers of Tuvalu doing "We are Family”.’
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:30 AM on March 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
Dara O Briain: ‘I'm welling up here. The only thing more Irish than "Amazing grace" on the bagpipes is the Throat Singers of Tuvalu doing "We are Family”.’
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:30 AM on March 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
Oh, for God's sake. Paul's epistles are letters to churches. In this case, as in many, they're about how the church should organise and behave itself. Jesus' teaching to those who call themselves Christians - who consider themselves members of the church - contain many responsibilities and strictures, but do not apply to others. His teachings - and Paul's - regarding how the church behaves to non-Christians are quite different.
Using that quote to justify starving the poor is blasphemy.
Even as an atheist, I find it obscene, and may the Lord preserve any 'Christian' who uses that sort of argument in my hearing.
posted by Devonian at 2:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
Using that quote to justify starving the poor is blasphemy.
Even as an atheist, I find it obscene, and may the Lord preserve any 'Christian' who uses that sort of argument in my hearing.
posted by Devonian at 2:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
From the NYT: Trump May Have Pushed Dutch Voters Away From Populism.
At least we apparently still serve a useful function as the canary in the coal mine.
posted by Justinian at 2:39 AM on March 17, 2017 [64 favorites]
At least we apparently still serve a useful function as the canary in the coal mine.
posted by Justinian at 2:39 AM on March 17, 2017 [64 favorites]
Well, it's slightly enjoyable hearing, on the BBC British people calling Spicer's comments about the use of British Intel on Trump stupid.
There's something about the word stupid in a Very Proper British accent that makes said stupidity seem unforgivable.
posted by angrycat at 2:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
There's something about the word stupid in a Very Proper British accent that makes said stupidity seem unforgivable.
posted by angrycat at 2:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I have no idea what this is or why the president re-tweeted it, but yikes.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:14 AM on March 17, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:14 AM on March 17, 2017
At least we apparently still serve a useful function as the canary in the coal mine.
a dead canary is supposed to prevent everyone else from dying along with it
posted by flatluigi at 3:15 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
a dead canary is supposed to prevent everyone else from dying along with it
posted by flatluigi at 3:15 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Trump has posted a remarkable video to mark St Patrick’s Day. I can only assume he edited it himself.
Holy shit. It's not a very good movie, but one of the gags in The Great White Hype was that the "Irish" boxer's ring-entrance music was played on bagpipes.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:17 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Holy shit. It's not a very good movie, but one of the gags in The Great White Hype was that the "Irish" boxer's ring-entrance music was played on bagpipes.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:17 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump idiocy palate cleanser
(The Pogues, "the sick bed of Culchulainn.")
posted by From Bklyn at 3:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
(The Pogues, "the sick bed of Culchulainn.")
posted by From Bklyn at 3:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Not wishing to go to far into a St Patrick’s Day derail, but here’s Padraig Reidy on the relationship between Irishness and America. And The Do’s and Don’ts of Irish people on Saint Patrick’s Day.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 3:45 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 3:45 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Interesting perspective on religion and Trumpism in the Atlantic. It seems that among right wing people, the less you attend church, the more likely you were tonvote for Trump.
"When conservatives disengage from organized religion, however, they don’t become more tolerant. They become intolerant in different ways. [...] less hostile to gay people .... But they’re more hostile to African Americans, Latinos, and Muslims"
The link I followed to get there summarized it with a Ross Douthat quote: "If you don’t like the Religious Right, just wait until the see the Post-Religious Right."
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:46 AM on March 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
"When conservatives disengage from organized religion, however, they don’t become more tolerant. They become intolerant in different ways. [...] less hostile to gay people .... But they’re more hostile to African Americans, Latinos, and Muslims"
The link I followed to get there summarized it with a Ross Douthat quote: "If you don’t like the Religious Right, just wait until the see the Post-Religious Right."
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:46 AM on March 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
Paul's epistles are letters to churches. In this case, as in many, they're about how the church should organise and behave itself.
Yes, and many of the early churches were communal. In that situation, a deliberately lazy person could throw the new & fragile organization off balance and introduce considerable strife. That's very, very different than the church helping someone who's temporarily unemployed, and insanely different from how citizens should receive assistance from the government.
But if Republicans are going to pull stuff in from the epistles, they should be prepared for considerable hostility.
James 5:1-4
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten. Your gold and your silver have rusted; and their rust will be a witness against you and will consume your flesh like fire. It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!
Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and which has been withheld by you, cries out against you; and the outcry of those who did the harvesting has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.
posted by honestcoyote at 3:50 AM on March 17, 2017 [31 favorites]
Yes, and many of the early churches were communal. In that situation, a deliberately lazy person could throw the new & fragile organization off balance and introduce considerable strife. That's very, very different than the church helping someone who's temporarily unemployed, and insanely different from how citizens should receive assistance from the government.
But if Republicans are going to pull stuff in from the epistles, they should be prepared for considerable hostility.
James 5:1-4
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten. Your gold and your silver have rusted; and their rust will be a witness against you and will consume your flesh like fire. It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!
Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and which has been withheld by you, cries out against you; and the outcry of those who did the harvesting has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.
posted by honestcoyote at 3:50 AM on March 17, 2017 [31 favorites]
It seems that among right wing people, the less you attend church, the more likely you were to vote for Trump.
My parents, lifelong evangelical baby boomers who've voted Republican since 1984, never considered voting for Trump for a second, and I don't think they're an anomaly among the congregation at their small Southern Baptist church. The reason, they told me, is that it's obvious Trump's a con artist who's trying to get their votes by pretending to be a Christian, and equally obvious that he has no idea how to run a country.
On the phone after the election, I asked my mom how it felt to vote D after so many years. She paused a moment, then said, "Hillary Clinton is... a reasonable person."
So data point that might say something about the efficacy of Trump's performance among the faithful, I dunno.
posted by Rykey at 4:11 AM on March 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
My parents, lifelong evangelical baby boomers who've voted Republican since 1984, never considered voting for Trump for a second, and I don't think they're an anomaly among the congregation at their small Southern Baptist church. The reason, they told me, is that it's obvious Trump's a con artist who's trying to get their votes by pretending to be a Christian, and equally obvious that he has no idea how to run a country.
On the phone after the election, I asked my mom how it felt to vote D after so many years. She paused a moment, then said, "Hillary Clinton is... a reasonable person."
So data point that might say something about the efficacy of Trump's performance among the faithful, I dunno.
posted by Rykey at 4:11 AM on March 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
I literally cannot phrase my feelings about this budget more succinctly than this headline:
Trump's Budget Would Turn the US Into a Heavily-Guarded Shitpile
posted by supercrayon at 4:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [38 favorites]
Trump's Budget Would Turn the US Into a Heavily-Guarded Shitpile
posted by supercrayon at 4:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [38 favorites]
flatluigi: a dead canary is supposed to prevent everyone else from dying along with it
It seems to be working so far. We are pretty much okay. So, thanks and good job!
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:33 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
It seems to be working so far. We are pretty much okay. So, thanks and good job!
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:33 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
So data point that might say something about the efficacy of Trump's performance among the faithful, I dunno.
Unfortunately, not really. White Evangelicals voted overwhelmingly for Trump. They were his base.
posted by Justinian at 4:33 AM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Unfortunately, not really. White Evangelicals voted overwhelmingly for Trump. They were his base.
posted by Justinian at 4:33 AM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Also hey guys, remember Jeff Sessions and his involvement with Russia and how he committed perjury and should probably be removed from his position as AG? Yeah I forgot all about that too, what with the shit-cylcone that is every week with the Trump administration.
posted by supercrayon at 4:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 4:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [45 favorites]
I mean. I can't get over this. We are literally proposing starving hungry kids so some asshole gets a point off the top marginal rate of tax.
It isn't even that. Trump's tax cuts -- which of course will benefit the wealthy -- aren't even part of this budget. They're starving people to give even more money to the military. That's it.
posted by Gelatin at 4:47 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
It isn't even that. Trump's tax cuts -- which of course will benefit the wealthy -- aren't even part of this budget. They're starving people to give even more money to the military. That's it.
posted by Gelatin at 4:47 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
On the DC metro this morning, someone had slapped photos of Bannon over the advertisements with the phrase "He is John Galt" underneath. I have no idea if it is intended to be a compliment or insult because a) Bannon looks like a trash fire in the photo (but that is like noting that the sun rose today) and b) people who love Rand have no sense of irony. Also, it is too early in the morning for this shit.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Trump's Budget Would Turn the US Into a Heavily-Guarded Shitpile
I was thinking something similar last night. Remembering scary places I'd sometimes see in the Ozark backwoods. Getting glimpses of decrepit houses falling over, yards full of dead cars, and surrounded by barbed fences. There were always some multiple of Confederate flags, and hand-painted signs indicating the owner would gleefully commit violence upon anyone who would take just one step onto his property.
Always wondered what the hell they thought they were protecting, and who they were protecting themselves from. A nice preview of Trump's America.
posted by honestcoyote at 4:58 AM on March 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
I was thinking something similar last night. Remembering scary places I'd sometimes see in the Ozark backwoods. Getting glimpses of decrepit houses falling over, yards full of dead cars, and surrounded by barbed fences. There were always some multiple of Confederate flags, and hand-painted signs indicating the owner would gleefully commit violence upon anyone who would take just one step onto his property.
Always wondered what the hell they thought they were protecting, and who they were protecting themselves from. A nice preview of Trump's America.
posted by honestcoyote at 4:58 AM on March 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
US makes formal apology to Britain after White House accuses GCHQ of wiretapping Trump Tower
Apology to Obama still to be seen.
posted by PenDevil at 4:59 AM on March 17, 2017 [46 favorites]
Apology to Obama still to be seen.
posted by PenDevil at 4:59 AM on March 17, 2017 [46 favorites]
So we ARE doing the "going around the world apologizing for the Unites States" thing then? Cue FOX News distraction segment...
posted by Rykey at 5:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 5:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
How dare you? How have you forgotten where you came from? How have you people, blinded with your, your green glitter and your fucking Donny Boy soundtracks--how have you forgotten who you are and where you came from to such a startling degree? And how have you forgotten the price your ancestors paid, and self-satisfiedly try to hike it higher and farther to gouge those who came after you?
Not that sciatrix' righteous rant needs any embellishment, but it should be remembered that when the Irish (and so many others) were immigrating, people here used the exact same arguments that are currently being used against immigration today.
It boggles the mind. The US is a place people want to come to live. The US benefits tremendously from the talent and labor that freely comes to our shores. And people want to deny us all that benefit because bigotry. No, thank you!
posted by Gelatin at 5:24 AM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
Not that sciatrix' righteous rant needs any embellishment, but it should be remembered that when the Irish (and so many others) were immigrating, people here used the exact same arguments that are currently being used against immigration today.
It boggles the mind. The US is a place people want to come to live. The US benefits tremendously from the talent and labor that freely comes to our shores. And people want to deny us all that benefit because bigotry. No, thank you!
posted by Gelatin at 5:24 AM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
> The US is a place people want to come to live.
Looks like that's being taken care of.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Looks like that's being taken care of.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
I just had a maybe-crazy idea. Is it possible they're cutting budgets entirely for the arts and such to convince big left wing donors to fund those programs instead of protests? Like they're actually trying to cut beloved programs people would want to rescue?
posted by corb at 5:35 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 5:35 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump has posted a remarkable video to mark St Patrick’s Day. I can only assume he edited it himself.
Personally I'm holding out to hear about how the White House cafeteria has the BEST mashed potatoes with their meatloaf.
posted by jferg at 5:36 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Personally I'm holding out to hear about how the White House cafeteria has the BEST mashed potatoes with their meatloaf.
posted by jferg at 5:36 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I just had a maybe-crazy idea. Is it possible they're cutting budgets entirely for the arts and such to convince big left wing donors to fund those programs instead of protests? Like they're actually trying to cut beloved programs people would want to rescue?
No. They're just massive shitheels intent on destroying everything that isn't the military.
posted by Talez at 5:38 AM on March 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
No. They're just massive shitheels intent on destroying everything that isn't the military.
posted by Talez at 5:38 AM on March 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
Things I learned about St. Patrick's Day from Donald Trump.
It's St. Patty, not St. Paddy.
The symbol of Ireland is a four-leaf clover, not a shamrock.
Bagpipes are Irish not Scottish.
Ireland is, in fact, Scotland.
Ancient Irish proverbs that Trump has loved "for many, many years" were recently written in Nigeria.
Nigeria is, in fact, Scotland.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [46 favorites]
It's St. Patty, not St. Paddy.
The symbol of Ireland is a four-leaf clover, not a shamrock.
Bagpipes are Irish not Scottish.
Ireland is, in fact, Scotland.
Ancient Irish proverbs that Trump has loved "for many, many years" were recently written in Nigeria.
Nigeria is, in fact, Scotland.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [46 favorites]
From the piece on the US apology for the GCHQ claim: The Government "made clear" to the US that the "ridiculous" claims should be ignored and received assurances in return that they will not be repeated, showing that the administration does not give them any credence, Mrs May's spokesman said.
"Made clear" - oh, I bet it did. Probably on a par with the call Thatcher put in to Reagan after Grenada, when the impropriety of invading a British colony without warning was also 'made clear'.
So, Spicer had to eat crow to the UK's US ambassador. I do hope this comes up at the next Spicey Time. I wonder if he'll deny apologising?
posted by Devonian at 5:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Made clear" - oh, I bet it did. Probably on a par with the call Thatcher put in to Reagan after Grenada, when the impropriety of invading a British colony without warning was also 'made clear'.
So, Spicer had to eat crow to the UK's US ambassador. I do hope this comes up at the next Spicey Time. I wonder if he'll deny apologising?
posted by Devonian at 5:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I was thinking something similar last night. Remembering scary places I'd sometimes see in the Ozark backwoods. Getting glimpses of decrepit houses falling over, yards full of dead cars, and surrounded by barbed fences. There were always some multiple of Confederate flags, and hand-painted signs indicating the owner would gleefully commit violence upon anyone who would take just one step onto his property.You've just described my next-door neighbor. In New York State. One of my little fantasies for when I'm rich (ha!) is to buy that property and demolish it.
posted by ragtag at 5:49 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Things I learned about St. Patrick's Day from Donald Trump.
Everything Trump does is a fucking travesty.
posted by valkane at 5:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Everything Trump does is a fucking travesty.
posted by valkane at 5:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump's Budget Would Turn the US Into a Heavily-Guarded Shitpile
That's pretty much apt for all his properties, no?
posted by mikelieman at 5:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
That's pretty much apt for all his properties, no?
posted by mikelieman at 5:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sounds like serving as Trident-Caddy to the Great Orange Satan MAY have paid off, if it means we can get a whole anonymous non-apology from the administration of someone who can be faced down into agreeing with whoever's in the room with him anyway.
posted by comealongpole at 6:00 AM on March 17, 2017
posted by comealongpole at 6:00 AM on March 17, 2017
Thank you to Chrysostom for the ongoing reports and analysis about local elections/resistance movements throughout the US in these threads. I find it to be tangible, useful info.
I'm silent on these threads but read them like they're my career and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
posted by rabidsegue at 6:18 AM on March 17, 2017 [60 favorites]
I'm silent on these threads but read them like they're my career and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
posted by rabidsegue at 6:18 AM on March 17, 2017 [60 favorites]
Also hey guys, remember Jeff Sessions and his involvement with Russia and how he committed perjury and should probably be removed from his position as AG?
In fact, I do. And I'd bet a shiny new dime that Al Franken does, as well.
posted by Gelatin at 6:21 AM on March 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
In fact, I do. And I'd bet a shiny new dime that Al Franken does, as well.
posted by Gelatin at 6:21 AM on March 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
On the DC metro this morning, someone had slapped photos of Bannon over the advertisements with the phrase "He is John Galt" underneath.
That's rich, because one of the ways Bannon made his fortune is on Seinfeld reruns. He didn't create anything; he literally mooched off of someone else's creative work. Though Bannon is rich, so I wonder -- though not very much, because who cares, really? -- what the Randroids think about that?
posted by Gelatin at 6:24 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's rich, because one of the ways Bannon made his fortune is on Seinfeld reruns. He didn't create anything; he literally mooched off of someone else's creative work. Though Bannon is rich, so I wonder -- though not very much, because who cares, really? -- what the Randroids think about that?
posted by Gelatin at 6:24 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is it possible they're cutting budgets entirely for the arts and such to convince big left wing donors to fund those programs instead of protests?
No, cutting arts funding is something Republicans have been pushing for decades, long before the current round of protests, even long before the Occupy protests. I can remember it being a thing back in the 80s-90s. How much emphasis Republicans put on the issue has varied over time, but they've never fully gotten away from it.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:26 AM on March 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
No, cutting arts funding is something Republicans have been pushing for decades, long before the current round of protests, even long before the Occupy protests. I can remember it being a thing back in the 80s-90s. How much emphasis Republicans put on the issue has varied over time, but they've never fully gotten away from it.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:26 AM on March 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
I love that Irish PM Kenny's speech was a huge subtweet to Trump standing beside him.
posted by chris24 at 6:32 AM on March 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 6:32 AM on March 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
From the NYT: Trump May Have Pushed Dutch Voters Away From Populism.
At least we apparently still serve a useful function as the canary in the coal mine.
I think, unfortunately, that was the UK. We're the idiots who ran into the mine to see what all the fuss was about.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:35 AM on March 17, 2017 [54 favorites]
At least we apparently still serve a useful function as the canary in the coal mine.
I think, unfortunately, that was the UK. We're the idiots who ran into the mine to see what all the fuss was about.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:35 AM on March 17, 2017 [54 favorites]
There were always some multiple of Confederate flags, and hand-painted signs indicating the owner would gleefully commit violence upon anyone who would take just one step onto his property.
Always wondered what the hell they thought they were protecting, and who they were protecting themselves from.
Their still from revenuers / their marijuana patch from the DEA, I'd guess.
cutting arts funding is something Republicans have been pushing for decades, long before the current round of protests, even long before the Occupy protests. I can remember it being a thing back in the 80s-90s. How much emphasis Republicans put on the issue has varied over time, but they've never fully gotten away from it.
We heard echoes of this theme in Mulvaney's spew yesterday -- Republicans like to complain about the budget, then pretend they can fix it by cutting "waste, fraud, and abuse" (which, oddly, ever exists in the military budget), which they basically define as non-military discretionary spending.
They'd love to cut Medicare and Social Security (which is why they always conflate the two, as Social Security has its own funding stream), but they don't dare own that desire openly, the coawrds.
posted by Gelatin at 6:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Always wondered what the hell they thought they were protecting, and who they were protecting themselves from.
Their still from revenuers / their marijuana patch from the DEA, I'd guess.
cutting arts funding is something Republicans have been pushing for decades, long before the current round of protests, even long before the Occupy protests. I can remember it being a thing back in the 80s-90s. How much emphasis Republicans put on the issue has varied over time, but they've never fully gotten away from it.
We heard echoes of this theme in Mulvaney's spew yesterday -- Republicans like to complain about the budget, then pretend they can fix it by cutting "waste, fraud, and abuse" (which, oddly, ever exists in the military budget), which they basically define as non-military discretionary spending.
They'd love to cut Medicare and Social Security (which is why they always conflate the two, as Social Security has its own funding stream), but they don't dare own that desire openly, the coawrds.
posted by Gelatin at 6:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Waitaminute, Attorney General Jefferson Beauregard Sessions committed perjury at his Senate confirmation hearing by intentionally lying about his role in the crime of colluding with a hostile foreign power against the people of the United States of America?
Hoo doggies, that's gonna make the name "Jefferson Beauregard Sessions" sound like some kind of treasonous slaver rebel.
Also is it too much to ask to have all of Trump's inner circle and the press corps open carry the shit outta some arms? I'm talking like bandoliers and the helicopter chain gun, sawed-off shotgun, the works. Because *not* being ridiculously, cartoonishly, and dangerously overloaded with weapons makes them look weak. Weak like Trump's tiny infant can't-reach-the-trigger-hands weak.
posted by petebest at 6:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Hoo doggies, that's gonna make the name "Jefferson Beauregard Sessions" sound like some kind of treasonous slaver rebel.
Also is it too much to ask to have all of Trump's inner circle and the press corps open carry the shit outta some arms? I'm talking like bandoliers and the helicopter chain gun, sawed-off shotgun, the works. Because *not* being ridiculously, cartoonishly, and dangerously overloaded with weapons makes them look weak. Weak like Trump's tiny infant can't-reach-the-trigger-hands weak.
posted by petebest at 6:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's rich, because one of the ways Bannon made his fortune is on Seinfeld reruns. He didn't create anything; he literally mooched off of someone else's creative work.
Not only that but making money in most of the ways Bannon has requires the intellectual property regime, a massive system of government-created monopolies with international enforcement and a litigation system also funded and enabled by the government's use of force against private citizens.
(Whether it should exist or shouldn't, depending on it for making money is in stark contrast to "free-market principles" and snide comments Bannon has made about the government being too involved in the economy in other countries.)
posted by XMLicious at 6:47 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
Hoo doggies, that's gonna make the name "Jefferson Beauregard Sessions" sound like some kind of treasonous slaver rebel.
And remember that he's Jefferson Beauregard Sessions the Third.
posted by Etrigan at 6:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
And remember that he's Jefferson Beauregard Sessions the Third.
posted by Etrigan at 6:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
cutting arts funding is something Republicans have been pushing for decades,
The entire extended sulfurous flatulent fanfare of the rain of Il Toupeé thus far has been exactly what Reagan, Bush, and Bush II: Pretzel Chokers Gone Wild would have done if they thought they could have gotten away with it. Every heartless, shortsighted, arrogant, racist bit.
GOP, you're home. It don't get no better'n this.
posted by petebest at 6:51 AM on March 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
The entire extended sulfurous flatulent fanfare of the rain of Il Toupeé thus far has been exactly what Reagan, Bush, and Bush II: Pretzel Chokers Gone Wild would have done if they thought they could have gotten away with it. Every heartless, shortsighted, arrogant, racist bit.
GOP, you're home. It don't get no better'n this.
posted by petebest at 6:51 AM on March 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
Bagpipes can be Irish or Scottish, two different types. I apologize for my ignorance. Trump's Amazing Grace video used the Scottish variety.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:51 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:51 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
what the Randroids think about that
My parents think they are all fucking awful, so there's that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:51 AM on March 17, 2017
My parents think they are all fucking awful, so there's that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:51 AM on March 17, 2017
I just had a maybe-crazy idea. Is it possible they're cutting budgets entirely for the arts and such to convince big left wing donors to fund those programs instead of protests? Like they're actually trying to cut beloved programs people would want to rescue?
Others have already covered that these are programs the trash has wanted to cut for half a century at least, but I want to address the underlying assumption that they want private support for public art is a justification.
Public support for the arts is a good thing and I do not want that left to private support. I'd infinitely rather that government support the things that make us human than they spend my money on killing random strangers in places I can't spell. If the only things we fund as a country is killing people instead of supporting the exploration of beauty and the meaning of being human then what is the point.
posted by winna at 6:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
Others have already covered that these are programs the trash has wanted to cut for half a century at least, but I want to address the underlying assumption that they want private support for public art is a justification.
Public support for the arts is a good thing and I do not want that left to private support. I'd infinitely rather that government support the things that make us human than they spend my money on killing random strangers in places I can't spell. If the only things we fund as a country is killing people instead of supporting the exploration of beauty and the meaning of being human then what is the point.
posted by winna at 6:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
This is real. (link goes to a picture of Trump in front of a painting of George Washington)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Man, I bet Latinxs are pissed that Cinco de Mayo skipped all the way to "excuse for WASPs to get drunk and for politicians to revel in code-switched ethnicity" while managing to avoid the parts where they get to become white and complain that someone else is taking their jobs.
posted by Etrigan at 6:59 AM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 6:59 AM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
Before the election, no joke, I was saying, hey, I'm gonna be white soon! And now I have had to double down on being nonwhite. So there's that.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:06 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 7:06 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Donnie was probably referring, in his sly way, to Dal Riata, the 6th/7th century regional coupling of west Scotland and north-east Ireland - not really a kingdom, but definitely an entity. And by those gentle allusions, he was commenting on the post-Brexit possibility of Scotland and the Irelands north and south reforming as a federalist nation.
I mean, it's a subtle yet demanding synthesis, a very broad encompassing of the deep resonances of societies' potential for progressive re-invention during times of stress and their gestalt subconscious assimilation of their semi-mythic past - probably lost on so-called liberal elites like us - but that's the sort of genuinely innovative and highly insightful intellect we're dealing with.
posted by Devonian at 7:10 AM on March 17, 2017 [55 favorites]
I mean, it's a subtle yet demanding synthesis, a very broad encompassing of the deep resonances of societies' potential for progressive re-invention during times of stress and their gestalt subconscious assimilation of their semi-mythic past - probably lost on so-called liberal elites like us - but that's the sort of genuinely innovative and highly insightful intellect we're dealing with.
posted by Devonian at 7:10 AM on March 17, 2017 [55 favorites]
while managing to avoid the parts where they get to become white and complain that someone else is taking their jobs
You clearly haven't met my Trump-voting dad.
posted by corb at 7:10 AM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
You clearly haven't met my Trump-voting dad.
posted by corb at 7:10 AM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
lydhre: Mulvaney on Climate Change: “We’re not spending money on that anymore. We consider that to be a waste of your money.”
Maybe someone from BlackRock can give our administration a call and talk to them like they're going to talk to companies where they invest.
The world’s biggest fund manager has threatened to vote out directors of companies that fail to address the risks posed to their businesses by climate change. (Independent, March 15, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:11 AM on March 17, 2017 [50 favorites]
Maybe someone from BlackRock can give our administration a call and talk to them like they're going to talk to companies where they invest.
The world’s biggest fund manager has threatened to vote out directors of companies that fail to address the risks posed to their businesses by climate change. (Independent, March 15, 2017)
The world’s biggest fund manager has threatened to vote out directors of companies that fail to address the risks posed to their businesses by climate change.Emphasis mine, with the sub-quote from BlackRock's website, cross-posting from the thread on Trump's proposed/ desired cuts to NASA funding.
In a post on its website, BlackRock, which controls assets worth $5.1 trillion (about £4.2 trillion), said climate risk was a “systemic issue”.
It said it planned to engage with the companies that are “most exposed to climate risk” over this year to help them tell investors – like BlackRock -- about the financial impacts of global warming and the shift to a low-carbon economy.The concept of the “climate competent board” has surfaced in recent years. For directors of companies in sectors that are significantly exposed to climate risk, BlackRock expects the whole board to have demonstrable fluency in how climate risk affects the business and management’s approach to adapting and mitigating the risk. We have the same expectation of boards wherever a company faces a material, business-specific risk. We would assess this both through corporate disclosures and direct engagement with independent board members, if necessary. Where we have concerns that the board is not dealing with a material risk appropriately, as with any other governance issue, we may signal that concern through our vote, most likely by voting against the re-election of certain directors we deem most responsible for board process and risk oversight.In an associated briefing note (3 page PDF titled "How BlackRock Investment Stewardship engages on climate risk," dated March 2017), BlackRock made clear how serious it was about the issue, pointing to a letter written to businesses by its chief executive Larry Fink which had said “while we are patient investors, we are not infinitely patient”.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:11 AM on March 17, 2017 [50 favorites]
CNN top story:
White House apologizes to British government over spying claims
fortunately the president is a reasonable man and having to issue this apology will in no way give him fits of apoplexy
posted by murphy slaw at 7:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
White House apologizes to British government over spying claims
fortunately the president is a reasonable man and having to issue this apology will in no way give him fits of apoplexy
posted by murphy slaw at 7:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
I mean, it's a subtle yet demanding synthesis
Mmph, these shade biscuits are fantastic! I salute your shadulinary skills.
posted by petebest at 7:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mmph, these shade biscuits are fantastic! I salute your shadulinary skills.
posted by petebest at 7:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
They just want everyone to die, don't they?
House OKs Bill Allowing 'Mentally Incapacitated' Veterans To Buy Guns
posted by Room 641-A at 7:29 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
House OKs Bill Allowing 'Mentally Incapacitated' Veterans To Buy Guns
At least a dozen Democrats joined Republicans to support the bill, which was approved by a 240-175 vote.(I don't have time at the moment to look up those Democrats.)
posted by Room 641-A at 7:29 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
In case you were wondering if today was actually a half day, Trump has spent the entire morning on Twitter. So it looks like he's not doing any work at all, other than the meeting with Angela Merkel.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:30 AM on March 17, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:30 AM on March 17, 2017
Speaking of half-days, it appears that Rex Tillerson (OUR TOP DIPLOMAT) declined to dine with his South Korean hosts because he was tired.
Oh also Tillerson (OUR TOP DIPLOMAT) says that diplomacy with North Korea is a dead end.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:33 AM on March 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
Oh also Tillerson (OUR TOP DIPLOMAT) says that diplomacy with North Korea is a dead end.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:33 AM on March 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
Here's the roll call on HR 1181 "Veteran's Second Amendment Protection Act"
I really really wish more reporters would include the bill or resolution numbers in their reporting. It's impossible to look some of this shit up because half the time the name of the bill is so disingenuous. You hear about a bill defunding care for homeless puppies and you go online and all you can see is the "Fluffy Animal Protection And Petting Them Act".
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:33 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
I really really wish more reporters would include the bill or resolution numbers in their reporting. It's impossible to look some of this shit up because half the time the name of the bill is so disingenuous. You hear about a bill defunding care for homeless puppies and you go online and all you can see is the "Fluffy Animal Protection And Petting Them Act".
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:33 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
House OKs Bill Allowing 'Mentally Incapacitated' Veterans To Buy Guns
Cue gun-spewing floating Zardoz head in 3 . . . 2 . . .
posted by petebest at 7:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Cue gun-spewing floating Zardoz head in 3 . . . 2 . . .
posted by petebest at 7:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh also Tillerson (OUR TOP DIPLOMAT) says that diplomacy with North Korea is a dead end.
btw we're all going to die
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
btw we're all going to die
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
To be fair, his tweets have a way of lowering his own approval. I would call that the most important work of all.
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:35 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:35 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ooh hey as a drunken-holiday Friday, we're sure to see some crazy ass Trumpdumps today, right? EO announcing Jesus as the national bird or something? Consult the Bannoncubes! Place yer bets!
posted by petebest at 7:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by petebest at 7:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
kind of wondering how long it will be before trump issues a tweet that completely undoes any possible goodwill gained from issuing the apology
posted by murphy slaw at 7:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 7:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
To be fair, his tweets have a way of lowering his own approval. I would call that the most important work of all.
Sure, but it's such an excruciatingly slow process. Longing back to the Simpsons' "Treehouse of Horrors" episodes. They're over fast...
posted by Namlit at 7:38 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sure, but it's such an excruciatingly slow process. Longing back to the Simpsons' "Treehouse of Horrors" episodes. They're over fast...
posted by Namlit at 7:38 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
House OKs Bill Allowing 'Mentally Incapacitated' Veterans To Buy Guns
In related news, the documentary, "Tower," about ex-Marine sniper Charles Whitman, is coming out next week on DVD.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:39 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
In related news, the documentary, "Tower," about ex-Marine sniper Charles Whitman, is coming out next week on DVD.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:39 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
some crazy ass Trumpdumps today, right
Wait until he's met Merkel and comments on her looks tonight
posted by Namlit at 7:39 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Wait until he's met Merkel and comments on her looks tonight
posted by Namlit at 7:39 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm honestly grateful to the Brits for standing up to Trump and treating those claims like the outrage they are. In a normal world, when you tell lies about people, you have to apologize. We've wandered so far away from that here that it feels funny to be back there, even for a little while.
It's like we're a family with an abusive dad, and we've gotten so used to him treating us like shit that it's just become our new normal. But then we invite a friend over for dinner, and our dad says something rude to our friend that's so minor, on the scale of what we're used to, that we hardly even notice it. But to our surprise, our friend calls him out on it, and demands that he apologize, and then, to our complete astonishment, he backs down. Like, in a way, we know she can only really do that because she's not a member of the family, and the stakes are way lower for her - he's not going to get violent with her, the way he might with us - but still, it's like this reminder that there's still a world out there where people are held to standards of decency, and that his rules aren't the only rules, and that things ought to be different, even though they are a long way from being like that right now. It gives you a little bit of hope.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [91 favorites]
It's like we're a family with an abusive dad, and we've gotten so used to him treating us like shit that it's just become our new normal. But then we invite a friend over for dinner, and our dad says something rude to our friend that's so minor, on the scale of what we're used to, that we hardly even notice it. But to our surprise, our friend calls him out on it, and demands that he apologize, and then, to our complete astonishment, he backs down. Like, in a way, we know she can only really do that because she's not a member of the family, and the stakes are way lower for her - he's not going to get violent with her, the way he might with us - but still, it's like this reminder that there's still a world out there where people are held to standards of decency, and that his rules aren't the only rules, and that things ought to be different, even though they are a long way from being like that right now. It gives you a little bit of hope.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [91 favorites]
fortunately the president is a reasonable man and having to issue this apology will in no way give him fits of apoplexy
To describe him as anything but reasonable would be utterly ridiculous
posted by Myeral at 7:40 AM on March 17, 2017
To describe him as anything but reasonable would be utterly ridiculous
posted by Myeral at 7:40 AM on March 17, 2017
House OKs Bill Allowing 'Mentally Incapacitated' Veterans To Buy Guns
Some background on this; it doesn't mean what it sounds like.
So veterans, especially ones who collect VA disability, tend to be really, really bad with money. (I say this as someone who struggles myself). I don't know why, maybe it's the fact their rent is paid for them in the Army, and they know the checks will never stop, but we cheerfully plunk down money all the time on stupid shit and then find ourselves struggling with necessities. Sometimes, when they're declared "mentally incompetent", it's a process a social worker has set up so that someone pays their rent and bills with their disability check before releasing their fun money to them. This process helps keep veterans out of homelessness.
But because it has the words "incompetent", you were getting a lot of perfectly fine people who were being barred from firearms just because they were shitty with money. That's a problem.
The blackout shit is just bizarre though.
posted by corb at 7:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Some background on this; it doesn't mean what it sounds like.
So veterans, especially ones who collect VA disability, tend to be really, really bad with money. (I say this as someone who struggles myself). I don't know why, maybe it's the fact their rent is paid for them in the Army, and they know the checks will never stop, but we cheerfully plunk down money all the time on stupid shit and then find ourselves struggling with necessities. Sometimes, when they're declared "mentally incompetent", it's a process a social worker has set up so that someone pays their rent and bills with their disability check before releasing their fun money to them. This process helps keep veterans out of homelessness.
But because it has the words "incompetent", you were getting a lot of perfectly fine people who were being barred from firearms just because they were shitty with money. That's a problem.
The blackout shit is just bizarre though.
posted by corb at 7:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Gelatin: you see, the transfer of wealth from the peons to the wealthy is just the natural order of things.
Yes, because Obama's administration only deepned the class warefare, as University of Maryland economist Peter Morici told NPR listeners this morning. Luckily former economist for Vice President Biden, Jared Bernstein, quoted Warren Buffet in reply: Actually, there’s been class warfare going on for the last 20 years, and my class has won. We’re the ones that have gotten our tax rates reduced dramatically.
Yeah, no sympathy here for tax breaks for the wealthy.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [23 favorites]
Yes, because Obama's administration only deepned the class warefare, as University of Maryland economist Peter Morici told NPR listeners this morning. Luckily former economist for Vice President Biden, Jared Bernstein, quoted Warren Buffet in reply: Actually, there’s been class warfare going on for the last 20 years, and my class has won. We’re the ones that have gotten our tax rates reduced dramatically.
Yeah, no sympathy here for tax breaks for the wealthy.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [23 favorites]
From the VA's July Suicide Fact Sheet
"Approximately 66% of all Veteran deaths from suicide were the result of firearm injuries."
posted by klarck at 7:44 AM on March 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
"Approximately 66% of all Veteran deaths from suicide were the result of firearm injuries."
posted by klarck at 7:44 AM on March 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
So veterans, especially ones who collect VA disability, tend to be really, really bad with money.
If you are so bad with money that you cannot pay your own bills, you should not have a gun. JMHO. I don't care if you are a vet or not.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:44 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
If you are so bad with money that you cannot pay your own bills, you should not have a gun. JMHO. I don't care if you are a vet or not.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:44 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
jackbishop: Meals on Wheels is far less economically efficient than the "abandon everybody over age 65 with limited mobility to starve to death" plan
That plan sounds like it's supported by Trumpinistas across the board. For instance, Gorsuch seems like the kind of judge to back this line of thinking, as he wrote a book called The Future of Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia, in which he wrote that "human life is fundamentally and inherently valuable" and "the intentional taking of human life by private persons is always wrong," but it does, however, quite clearly subscribe to the notion, adopted in most state laws, that individuals have the right to hasten their own deaths by refusing nutrition, water or medical treatment.
So my takeaway from all this is that I'm free to die slowly and painfully, and I shouldn't expect the government to help keep me fed or let me die with dignity.
Thanks, Trump.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
That plan sounds like it's supported by Trumpinistas across the board. For instance, Gorsuch seems like the kind of judge to back this line of thinking, as he wrote a book called The Future of Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia, in which he wrote that "human life is fundamentally and inherently valuable" and "the intentional taking of human life by private persons is always wrong," but it does, however, quite clearly subscribe to the notion, adopted in most state laws, that individuals have the right to hasten their own deaths by refusing nutrition, water or medical treatment.
So my takeaway from all this is that I'm free to die slowly and painfully, and I shouldn't expect the government to help keep me fed or let me die with dignity.
Thanks, Trump.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
But because it has the words "incompetent", you were getting a lot of perfectly fine people who were being barred from firearms just because they were shitty with money. That's a problem.
Not a problem so huge that laws need to be rewritten to correct it at a time when, like, the world is ending. Let's tackle the "a subset of this small percentage of citizens may have been misclassified in a way that prevents them from buying an arsenal" problem once we've dealt with "we're about to go to war with North Korea" and "pollution is now allowed to be dumped into streams" and "hey, let's stop providing meals for housebound seniors."
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [40 favorites]
Not a problem so huge that laws need to be rewritten to correct it at a time when, like, the world is ending. Let's tackle the "a subset of this small percentage of citizens may have been misclassified in a way that prevents them from buying an arsenal" problem once we've dealt with "we're about to go to war with North Korea" and "pollution is now allowed to be dumped into streams" and "hey, let's stop providing meals for housebound seniors."
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [40 favorites]
In related news, the documentary, "Tower," about ex-Marine sniper Charles Whitman, is coming out next week on DVD.
Before Whitman climbed that tower, he left a note: "I do not quite understand what it is that compels me to type this letter. Perhaps it is to leave some vague reason for the actions I have recently performed. I do not really understand myself these days. I am supposed to be an average reasonable and intelligent young man. However, lately (I cannot recall when it started) I have been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts."
He went on to suggest that something had gone wrong in his head, requested that an autopsy be performed, and asked for his money to be donated to medical research. He was found to have a malignant brain tumor that almost certainly contributed to his actions.
Whitman knew there was something deeply wrong with him and wanted humanity to learn from it. Charles Whitman was a better person than Donald Trump.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:50 AM on March 17, 2017 [69 favorites]
Before Whitman climbed that tower, he left a note: "I do not quite understand what it is that compels me to type this letter. Perhaps it is to leave some vague reason for the actions I have recently performed. I do not really understand myself these days. I am supposed to be an average reasonable and intelligent young man. However, lately (I cannot recall when it started) I have been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts."
He went on to suggest that something had gone wrong in his head, requested that an autopsy be performed, and asked for his money to be donated to medical research. He was found to have a malignant brain tumor that almost certainly contributed to his actions.
Whitman knew there was something deeply wrong with him and wanted humanity to learn from it. Charles Whitman was a better person than Donald Trump.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:50 AM on March 17, 2017 [69 favorites]
If you are so bad with money that you cannot pay your own bills, you should not have a gun.
I dunno. I'm sympathetic to the ACLU's point that a disability or illness, even a mental one, doesn't remove your constitutional rights. If we must have the current ridiculously broad interpretation of the second amendment, then the right to bear arms must apply to disabled people and ill people the same as everyone else. (Unless there's actually some kind of medical evidence that the person is a danger to themselves or others.)
Not a problem so huge that laws need to be rewritten to correct it at a time when, like, the world is ending.
By the same argument we, also, have better things to worry about right now than this.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:51 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
I dunno. I'm sympathetic to the ACLU's point that a disability or illness, even a mental one, doesn't remove your constitutional rights. If we must have the current ridiculously broad interpretation of the second amendment, then the right to bear arms must apply to disabled people and ill people the same as everyone else. (Unless there's actually some kind of medical evidence that the person is a danger to themselves or others.)
Not a problem so huge that laws need to be rewritten to correct it at a time when, like, the world is ending.
By the same argument we, also, have better things to worry about right now than this.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:51 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Hey our lovable Irish scamp is up to his tricks again!
HuffPo Sean Hannity Suggests Travel Ban Judge Did ‘Weed’ And ‘Blow’ With Barack Obama
HuffPo Sean Hannity Suggests Travel Ban Judge Did ‘Weed’ And ‘Blow’ With Barack Obama
“This judge who issued the travel ban ruling is an Obama law school classmate,” Hannity said on his radio show Thursday. “Maybe he should have recused himself from the case. Just a maybe? Were they best friends in Hawaii? Were they part of the Choom Gang, smoking pot and hanging out and doing a little bit of weed and maybe even a little blow?”posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:51 AM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
Media Matters, which posted audio of the comments, notes that right-wing media have been pushing a conspiracy theory that Obama was involved in stopping Trump’s travel ban.
for real tho, why hasn't trump sacked spicer and given hannity his job
posted by murphy slaw at 7:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 7:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
I have a hunch Sean Hannity did some alcohol with the Trump administration before.
posted by R a c h e l at 7:54 AM on March 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by R a c h e l at 7:54 AM on March 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
White House Stands By President Trump's Wiretap Claim Despite GOP Pressure
Eileen Sullivan / AP
5:26 AM ET
The White House on Thursday stood by President Donald Trump's unproven accusations that his predecessor wiretapped his New York skyscraper, despite growing bipartisan agreement that there's no evidence to back up the claim and mounting pressure to retract the statement.
Angrily defending the president's statement, White House spokesman Sean Spicer told reporters Trump "stands by" the four tweets that sparked a firestorm that has threatened Trump's credibility with lawmakers. Spicer denounced reporters for taking the president's words too literally and suggested lawmakers were basing their assessments on incomplete information.
Spicer's comments were a rebuttal to the top two members of the Senate intelligence committee, who released a statement earlier Thursday declaring there is no indication that Trump Tower was "the subject of surveillance" by the U.S. government before or after the 2016 election. Spicer suggested the statement from Sens. Richard Burr, R-N.C., and Mark Warner, D-Va., was made without a full review of the evidence or, incorrectly, a briefing from the Justice Department.
"They are not findings," he said.
Emphasis added
Attaboy Spicey! Never surrender to reason! Bonus Hilarity, "threatened Trump's credibility"! Bwahahahahaaaaa!!
posted by petebest at 7:54 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Eileen Sullivan / AP
5:26 AM ET
The White House on Thursday stood by President Donald Trump's unproven accusations that his predecessor wiretapped his New York skyscraper, despite growing bipartisan agreement that there's no evidence to back up the claim and mounting pressure to retract the statement.
Angrily defending the president's statement, White House spokesman Sean Spicer told reporters Trump "stands by" the four tweets that sparked a firestorm that has threatened Trump's credibility with lawmakers. Spicer denounced reporters for taking the president's words too literally and suggested lawmakers were basing their assessments on incomplete information.
Spicer's comments were a rebuttal to the top two members of the Senate intelligence committee, who released a statement earlier Thursday declaring there is no indication that Trump Tower was "the subject of surveillance" by the U.S. government before or after the 2016 election. Spicer suggested the statement from Sens. Richard Burr, R-N.C., and Mark Warner, D-Va., was made without a full review of the evidence or, incorrectly, a briefing from the Justice Department.
"They are not findings," he said.
Emphasis added
Attaboy Spicey! Never surrender to reason! Bonus Hilarity, "threatened Trump's credibility"! Bwahahahahaaaaa!!
posted by petebest at 7:54 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Sometimes, when they're declared "mentally incompetent", it's a process a social worker has set up so that someone pays their rent and bills with their disability check before releasing their fun money to them. This process helps keep veterans out of homelessness.
Wait, so you're saying that there are people lying about their disability status in order to benefit from government protections? There should be a political party that uses that as an argument against disadvantaged people, or something...
No, I understand what (I think) you actually mean -- that this is money they were getting anyway and this is just a way to allow someone else to serve as a custodian for it. But that's the same level of rhetoric, with the same bearing on reality, that the right use all the time to argue for denying benefits to brown people. These guys are veterans, though, so they don't have to hear it.
posted by jammer at 7:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
Wait, so you're saying that there are people lying about their disability status in order to benefit from government protections? There should be a political party that uses that as an argument against disadvantaged people, or something...
No, I understand what (I think) you actually mean -- that this is money they were getting anyway and this is just a way to allow someone else to serve as a custodian for it. But that's the same level of rhetoric, with the same bearing on reality, that the right use all the time to argue for denying benefits to brown people. These guys are veterans, though, so they don't have to hear it.
posted by jammer at 7:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
Rhaomi: Video of Mick Mulvaney's smug dismissal of programs that feed hungry schoolchildren.
"... They're supposed to help kids who don't get fed at home get fed so they do better in school,” Mulvaney said. “Guess what? There's no demonstrable evidence they're actually doing that. There's no demonstrable evidence they're actually helping results, helping kids do better in school..."
I had to walk away from the thread at this point, because I can only take so much white hot rage. If we can't afford to feed starving kids so that they an stay in school, then it really is time to bring on the guillotines.
They're hungry kids. Maybe we can have a dry academic discussion about personal responsibility and doing better at their school work after we feed them?
Greatest country in the world, y'all.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:56 AM on March 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
"... They're supposed to help kids who don't get fed at home get fed so they do better in school,” Mulvaney said. “Guess what? There's no demonstrable evidence they're actually doing that. There's no demonstrable evidence they're actually helping results, helping kids do better in school..."
I had to walk away from the thread at this point, because I can only take so much white hot rage. If we can't afford to feed starving kids so that they an stay in school, then it really is time to bring on the guillotines.
They're hungry kids. Maybe we can have a dry academic discussion about personal responsibility and doing better at their school work after we feed them?
Greatest country in the world, y'all.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:56 AM on March 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
Hannity has the more important job, coming up with and pushing conspiracies and venom for the Trumpist partisans in the hinterlands. That's why he makes 30mil a year. Spicer is a flack who repeats lies to the lowlife media, any soulless climber can do that.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:56 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:56 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Guardian: Trump's 'Irish proverb' confuses the internet on St Patrick's Day
So, long story short: the proverb isn’t a proverb, it’s a poem. It’s probably not Irish, given no one in Ireland seems to have heard of it, but we’re not sure where it came from.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
This fucker is never going to admit to being wrong let alone apologize for it even once in his miserable life.
posted by Artw at 7:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Whom to trust when it comes to health-care reform? Trump supporters put their faith in him.
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE! I JUST CAN'T EVEN!
These people are voting themselves to death with ignorance and we can't do a damn thing about it.
posted by Talez at 7:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [62 favorites]
NASHVILLE — Soon after Charla McComic’s son lost his job, his health-insurance premium dropped from $567 per month to just $88, a “blessing from God” that she believes was made possible by President Trump.SDGHGAIFYHGT@#$Q)(%RGH#@WQE(IPOFDBHGWASEOIFH@#()%RIOGH!Y@#QWF)(OIPAWSEDGHOIT@Q#$HY()OT!@QYHF(IOEWASHBN
“I think it was just because of the tax credit,” said McComic, 52, a former first-grade teacher who traveled to Trump’s Wednesday night rally in Nashville from Lexington, Tenn., with her daughter, mother, aunt and cousin.
The price change was actually thanks to a subsidy made possible by former president Barack Obama’s Affordable Care Act, which is still in place, not by the tax credits proposed by Republicans as part of the health-care bill still being considered by Congress.
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE! I JUST CAN'T EVEN!
These people are voting themselves to death with ignorance and we can't do a damn thing about it.
posted by Talez at 7:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [62 favorites]
> “I think it was just because of the tax credit,” said McComic, 52, a former first-grade teacher.
Those poor kids. They'll grow up to be better adults in spite of her, I hope.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:01 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Those poor kids. They'll grow up to be better adults in spite of her, I hope.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:01 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!
Talk radio is a helluva drug.
posted by petebest at 8:02 AM on March 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
Talk radio is a helluva drug.
posted by petebest at 8:02 AM on March 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
Sean Spicer told reporters Trump "stands by" the four tweets that sparked a firestorm that has threatened Trump's credibility with lawmakers.
Oh okay, now I get it. Lawmakers, hold up: I think I see your problem...
posted by saulgoodman at 8:03 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh okay, now I get it. Lawmakers, hold up: I think I see your problem...
posted by saulgoodman at 8:03 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
From Johnny Wallflower's link: "We combed Yeats, Heaney, Kavanagh, Joyce. They google "famous Irish proverbs" and pick one from a Geocities page."
Yup, that is the level of intellect we're dealing with here.
posted by winna at 8:09 AM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yup, that is the level of intellect we're dealing with here.
posted by winna at 8:09 AM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!
Talk radio is a helluva drug.
That's exactly it. There's an entire alternative universe with Rush and Hannity and Levin as the celebrities and sole authorities, then literally thousands of lesser fever swamp creatures on local affiliates in every media market, like we're now treated to on the White House Skype line. Those are the only people Republicans true. 40 years of Republican disinformation and propaganda has poisoned the population's ability to think critically or even acknowledge the existence of facts. They only recognize the alternative facts fed to them through the machine, including now whatever the Trump White House wants to pump out there from the top.
There's no reaching them or breaking through. The only chance is to draw in more potential voters who are not already compromised by the talk radio poison. Luckily that's still only 27-40%.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:10 AM on March 17, 2017 [31 favorites]
Talk radio is a helluva drug.
That's exactly it. There's an entire alternative universe with Rush and Hannity and Levin as the celebrities and sole authorities, then literally thousands of lesser fever swamp creatures on local affiliates in every media market, like we're now treated to on the White House Skype line. Those are the only people Republicans true. 40 years of Republican disinformation and propaganda has poisoned the population's ability to think critically or even acknowledge the existence of facts. They only recognize the alternative facts fed to them through the machine, including now whatever the Trump White House wants to pump out there from the top.
There's no reaching them or breaking through. The only chance is to draw in more potential voters who are not already compromised by the talk radio poison. Luckily that's still only 27-40%.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:10 AM on March 17, 2017 [31 favorites]
There are literally dozens of empirical peer-reviewed research reports that show correlation between school food programs and academic achievement. And that's just using regular Google and not Google Scholar.
Do you think the press corps just isn't ready for the nonsense that gets spewed? I mean, why doesn't anyone ask to see the research methodology of these clowns and ask how they have determined there are no effects to academic achievement?
posted by archimago at 8:12 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Do you think the press corps just isn't ready for the nonsense that gets spewed? I mean, why doesn't anyone ask to see the research methodology of these clowns and ask how they have determined there are no effects to academic achievement?
posted by archimago at 8:12 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Luckily that's still only 27-40%.
Ugh, remember when the crazification factor was a ceiling and not a floor
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
Ugh, remember when the crazification factor was a ceiling and not a floor
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
With respect to the food programs, I suspect the R's envision local church etc filling this void - you kill 2 birds with one stone. Less taxpayer money, and greater role of church in community. I don't know why they cant just come out and say this, so maybe I'm wrong, but thats my hunch.
posted by H. Roark at 8:15 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by H. Roark at 8:15 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is what I've been pondering today, from the press conference yesterday, the soundbite that the morning news shows ran with was Mulvaney saying:
posted by peeedro at 8:15 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is the message the President wanted to send to the public, to the press, to Capitol Hill: he wants more money for defense; more money for border enforcement; more money for law enforcement generally; more money for the vets; more money for school choice.I'm really confused about that last one. For my entire life the republican argument for privatization has been that transferring government functions to the competitive markets will allow for better services at lower costs through the magic of capitalism. But now they're saying that we're going to have to pay more to introduce "school choice"? We'll be selling off our schools and our children's educations to the lowest bidders, but the catch is that we're going to be paying more to make that happen?
posted by peeedro at 8:15 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
With respect to the food programs, I suspect the R's envision local church etc filling this void - you kill 2 birds with one stone.
For the correct sorts of unlucky poor people, sure. The rest of them they just don't care about.
posted by Etrigan at 8:16 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
For the correct sorts of unlucky poor people, sure. The rest of them they just don't care about.
posted by Etrigan at 8:16 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
With respect to the food programs, I suspect the R's envision local church etc filling this void - you kill 2 birds with one stone. Less taxpayer money, and greater role of church in community. I don't know why they cant just come out and say this, so maybe I'm wrong, but thats my hunch.
The thing is, Meals on Wheels etc. already operate in cooperation with community groups -- there's matching donations, organization for volunteers, etc. If you wanted to boost the church's role you'd want to keep these programs while cutting spending on direct aid. They either just don't care if poor people die, or actively want that.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:18 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
The thing is, Meals on Wheels etc. already operate in cooperation with community groups -- there's matching donations, organization for volunteers, etc. If you wanted to boost the church's role you'd want to keep these programs while cutting spending on direct aid. They either just don't care if poor people die, or actively want that.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:18 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
With respect to the food programs, I suspect the R's envision local church etc filling this void - you kill 2 birds with one stone. Less taxpayer money, and greater role of church in community.
That seems very pre-Trump. Now they just want to kill everyone.
posted by Artw at 8:18 AM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
That seems very pre-Trump. Now they just want to kill everyone.
posted by Artw at 8:18 AM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
My Sean Spicer question for the day:
In speaking to the Irish Prime Minister, Trump described a passage as an old Irish proverb which he has enjoyed for many, many years and then recited a couple of lines recently written by a Nigerian poet. How has he enjoyed something for so many years when it didn't exist?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:19 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
In speaking to the Irish Prime Minister, Trump described a passage as an old Irish proverb which he has enjoyed for many, many years and then recited a couple of lines recently written by a Nigerian poet. How has he enjoyed something for so many years when it didn't exist?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:19 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
With respect to the food programs, I suspect the R's envision local church etc filling this void - you kill 2 birds with one stone. Less taxpayer money, and greater role of church in community. I don't know why they cant just come out and say this, so maybe I'm wrong, but thats my hunch.
I'm sure that would be their justification; however, you can talk to any person who's worked in a local church-run soup kitchen or food pantry and they will tell you that the need is already overwhelming and far beyond the capacity of the Church and voluntary organizations, even with the meager help still provided by SNAP and other anti-hunger government programs.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:22 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm sure that would be their justification; however, you can talk to any person who's worked in a local church-run soup kitchen or food pantry and they will tell you that the need is already overwhelming and far beyond the capacity of the Church and voluntary organizations, even with the meager help still provided by SNAP and other anti-hunger government programs.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:22 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
"With respect to the food programs, I suspect the R's envision local church etc filling this void..."
This is exactly what I hear from a frequent business travel peer. It's his standard rebuttal that that sort of work is best left to religious organizations. It was fun to watch his little evangelical head spin when I told him his idea would effectively put the Catholic Church - along with maybe the Latter Day Saints - in charge of almost all welfare programs.
posted by klarck at 8:22 AM on March 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
This is exactly what I hear from a frequent business travel peer. It's his standard rebuttal that that sort of work is best left to religious organizations. It was fun to watch his little evangelical head spin when I told him his idea would effectively put the Catholic Church - along with maybe the Latter Day Saints - in charge of almost all welfare programs.
posted by klarck at 8:22 AM on March 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
if i was part of the white house press pool, i would be lobbying all of my colleagues to stop asking Spicer questions that they actually want answers for, and just pepper him with "asphinctersayswhat?" and suchlike for 45 minutes.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:24 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 8:24 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
It seems four additional GOP congressmen were involved in the Price/Innate sweetheart stock deal.
Each of the congressmen — Reps. Mike Conaway (R-TX), Doug Lamborn (R-CO), Billy Long (R-MO), and Markwayne Mullin (R-OK) – purchased the stock in January 2017. Two of the new stockholders, Reps. Mullin and Long, are members of the Subcommittee on Health of the House Energy and Commerce Committee along with Rep. Collins. The trades in Innate stock by Reps. Conaway, Lamborn and Long have not been previously reported while Political MoneyLine first identified Rep. Mullin’s Innate purchase.posted by melissasaurus at 8:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
It is unknown whether the congressmen purchased Innate stock with Rep. Collins’ encouragement. Rep. Collins, who is Innate’s largest shareholder and sits on the company’s board of directors, has been overheard by reporters speaking loudly into his cellphone in the House lobby, bragging about how many “millionaires” he had made in his hometown of Buffalo in recent months.
Yeah, my kid's Catholic preschool is in a community center building shared with a Catholic adult daycare and active senior programming, and a Meals on Wheels kitchen staffed by volunteers who are largely the same group of Catholics who do the other programming offered by the center. There are actualfax nuns there.
Before the election, there was a flyer posted on the door that was basically "DEMOCRATS ARE BABY-KILLERS, DON'T VOTE FOR THE BABY-KILLERS!" And a few weeks after inauguration in that same space was a flyer saying "REPUBLICANS WANT TO TAKE YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY! SHAME ON REPUBLICANS!"
My chuckle was a desultory chuckle.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:26 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
Before the election, there was a flyer posted on the door that was basically "DEMOCRATS ARE BABY-KILLERS, DON'T VOTE FOR THE BABY-KILLERS!" And a few weeks after inauguration in that same space was a flyer saying "REPUBLICANS WANT TO TAKE YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY! SHAME ON REPUBLICANS!"
My chuckle was a desultory chuckle.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:26 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
With respect to the food programs, I suspect the R's envision local church etc filling this void - you kill 2 birds with one stone.
I know a Southern Baptist preacher involved with national food aid in this country. He has directly attested to me before that churches can't even come close to meeting the demand. According to Second Harvest, a national food bank, 1 in 7 American families experience food insecurity each week.
posted by Slothrop at 8:26 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
I know a Southern Baptist preacher involved with national food aid in this country. He has directly attested to me before that churches can't even come close to meeting the demand. According to Second Harvest, a national food bank, 1 in 7 American families experience food insecurity each week.
posted by Slothrop at 8:26 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Analysis of previous Gorsuch rulings (WaPo)
That doesn’t mean there is disagreement over Gorsuch’s ideology. Conservative legal groups enthusiastically endorse his approach to the law, certain that it reflects their view of gun rights, religious protections and support for business. Liberals are equally convinced Gorsuch is a danger to reproductive rights, inadequate on questions of discrimination and the kind of jurist who instinctively sides with corporate interests over the “little guy.”posted by kingless at 8:30 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
In speaking to the Irish Prime Minister, Trump described a passage as an old Irish proverb which he has enjoyed for many, many years and then recited a couple of lines recently written by a Nigerian poet.
Albashir Adam Alhassan was just the person who submitted it to poemhunter.com. He's unlikely to be the author. The poem dates back to at least 1936, which is the earliest record Google Books has for it. But equally hilariously, it was published in a union journal.
Unfortunately Google Books only offer a snippet view of the journal, so it's hard to tell the context or if there's an author listed. Anyone have access to volume 31 of the International Stereotypers' and Electrotypers' Union Journal?
posted by jedicus at 8:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Albashir Adam Alhassan was just the person who submitted it to poemhunter.com. He's unlikely to be the author. The poem dates back to at least 1936, which is the earliest record Google Books has for it. But equally hilariously, it was published in a union journal.
Unfortunately Google Books only offer a snippet view of the journal, so it's hard to tell the context or if there's an author listed. Anyone have access to volume 31 of the International Stereotypers' and Electrotypers' Union Journal?
posted by jedicus at 8:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
supercrayon: Trump's Budget Would Turn the US Into a Heavily-Guarded Shitpile
honestcoyote: Always wondered what the hell they thought they were protecting, and who they were protecting themselves from. A nice preview of Trump's America.
A friend on Facebook said something similar: gutting programs that actually make America the land of opportunity to fund a bigger military and a border wall - what are you protecting, and from whom?
I guess this goes back LBJ: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
"I may not have much, but you [Others] better not try to steal it, because I know you have less."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:36 AM on March 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
honestcoyote: Always wondered what the hell they thought they were protecting, and who they were protecting themselves from. A nice preview of Trump's America.
A friend on Facebook said something similar: gutting programs that actually make America the land of opportunity to fund a bigger military and a border wall - what are you protecting, and from whom?
I guess this goes back LBJ: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
"I may not have much, but you [Others] better not try to steal it, because I know you have less."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:36 AM on March 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
Yeah, this business about "let churches do it" is such easily-debunked bullshit.
1. Churches already do do it. As do other local nonprofits.
2. Ask any of them whether the needs they experience can be met only with community donations and they will all tell you no.
3. We tried having mutual aid societies and no government-subsidized social safety net. We decided that it didn't work, because we also decided that people dying on the streets isn't something we're down with as a society. That's why we have these things now. We already tried it the other way! It didn't work!
This shit is like anti-vax. People who have never experienced what life is like without herd immunity or a safety net assume those things aren't necessary because they personally have never seen someone die of polio or starve in a ditch. And the reason they've never seen those things is because we have vaccines and a social safety net (ish).
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:38 AM on March 17, 2017 [89 favorites]
1. Churches already do do it. As do other local nonprofits.
2. Ask any of them whether the needs they experience can be met only with community donations and they will all tell you no.
3. We tried having mutual aid societies and no government-subsidized social safety net. We decided that it didn't work, because we also decided that people dying on the streets isn't something we're down with as a society. That's why we have these things now. We already tried it the other way! It didn't work!
This shit is like anti-vax. People who have never experienced what life is like without herd immunity or a safety net assume those things aren't necessary because they personally have never seen someone die of polio or starve in a ditch. And the reason they've never seen those things is because we have vaccines and a social safety net (ish).
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:38 AM on March 17, 2017 [89 favorites]
And a few weeks after inauguration in that same space was a flyer saying "REPUBLICANS WANT TO TAKE YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY! SHAME ON REPUBLICANS!"
And that's when you whip out your Sharpie and write "But her emails!" on it.
posted by zakur at 8:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
And that's when you whip out your Sharpie and write "But her emails!" on it.
posted by zakur at 8:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
Amid ‘Trump Effect’ Fear, 40% of Colleges See Dip in Foreign Applicants: Graduate schools appear to be feeling the worst pinch, with nearly half reporting drops. “Our deans describe it as a chilling effect,” said Suzanne Ortega, president of the Council of Graduate Schools.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:41 AM on March 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:41 AM on March 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
Obama's administration only deepned the class warefare, as University of Maryland economist Peter Morici told NPR listeners this morning
In Warren Elllis' comic Transmetropolitan, the protagonist, a Hunter S. Thompson expy, is armed only (usually) with his words and a "bowel disruptor" -- a gun that forces its target to involuntarily defecate. Morici, and anyone who cries "class warfare!" when one points out that the wealthy have glommed all the increases in GDP produced since the 1980s, makes one wish all journalists could be armed with such a device.
posted by Gelatin at 8:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
In Warren Elllis' comic Transmetropolitan, the protagonist, a Hunter S. Thompson expy, is armed only (usually) with his words and a "bowel disruptor" -- a gun that forces its target to involuntarily defecate. Morici, and anyone who cries "class warfare!" when one points out that the wealthy have glommed all the increases in GDP produced since the 1980s, makes one wish all journalists could be armed with such a device.
posted by Gelatin at 8:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
And that's when you whip out your Sharpie and write "But her emails!" on it.
They likely didn't really care about her emails. These are elderly pro-life Catholics: single issue voters.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:44 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Amid ‘Trump Effect’ Fear, 40% of Colleges See Dip in Foreign Applicants
This makes me so sad. I think I'm so unpatriotic but then something like this happens and I remember that there are parts of this country, like our research institutions, that I'm still pretty damn proud of (on the whole anyways). I know this will hurt our economy and whatever but it also goes deeper than that, by destroying the best parts of our place in the world.
posted by R a c h e l at 8:47 AM on March 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
This makes me so sad. I think I'm so unpatriotic but then something like this happens and I remember that there are parts of this country, like our research institutions, that I'm still pretty damn proud of (on the whole anyways). I know this will hurt our economy and whatever but it also goes deeper than that, by destroying the best parts of our place in the world.
posted by R a c h e l at 8:47 AM on March 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
@codykeenan
We combed Yeats, Heaney, Kavanagh, Joyce. They google "famous Irish proverbs" and pick one from a Geocities page.
Trump signalled this in his remarks: "and this is a good one, this is one I like, I’ve heard it for many, many years and I love it."
I guarantee he had never heard or seen the "proverb" before the printout was handed to him minutes before.
posted by zakur at 8:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
We combed Yeats, Heaney, Kavanagh, Joyce. They google "famous Irish proverbs" and pick one from a Geocities page.
Trump signalled this in his remarks: "and this is a good one, this is one I like, I’ve heard it for many, many years and I love it."
I guarantee he had never heard or seen the "proverb" before the printout was handed to him minutes before.
posted by zakur at 8:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
I don't understand how the election can stand as legitimate since there is likely no doubt within intelligence community that there was foreign interference. Do not get why nothing is being done.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:50 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:50 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
Greatest country in the world, y'all.
Maybe this should be the BEGINNING of any discussion with a Republican?
Is the United States the Greatest Country In The World?
Obvs, "Yes"
Then why can't we feed hungry children and elderly?
posted by mikelieman at 8:52 AM on March 17, 2017 [31 favorites]
Maybe this should be the BEGINNING of any discussion with a Republican?
Is the United States the Greatest Country In The World?
Obvs, "Yes"
Then why can't we feed hungry children and elderly?
posted by mikelieman at 8:52 AM on March 17, 2017 [31 favorites]
This makes me so sad.
Me too, and really would impact the character of my city. I love that when I walk around there are people from all over the world. The restaurants we have here that cater to students serve cuisines from all over the world. The number of languages spoken on my bus rides, the huge variety of experiences the people I work with have, and on and on.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Me too, and really would impact the character of my city. I love that when I walk around there are people from all over the world. The restaurants we have here that cater to students serve cuisines from all over the world. The number of languages spoken on my bus rides, the huge variety of experiences the people I work with have, and on and on.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Then why can't we feed hungry children and elderly?
Freedom. The reason is freedom.
posted by dis_integration at 8:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
Freedom. The reason is freedom.
posted by dis_integration at 8:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
We combed Yeats, Heaney, Kavanagh, Joyce. They google "famous Irish proverbs" and pick one from a Geocities page.
To be fair, they'd first need to know who those people were to comb through them.
That would require a modicum of literacy.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:54 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
To be fair, they'd first need to know who those people were to comb through them.
That would require a modicum of literacy.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:54 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
If churches and charity could have managed to alleviate poverty in any sort of meaningful way, we never would have needed welfare and social services in the first place. If you're wondering how bad it got, Google "orphan trains", which was kind of horrifyingly huge effort to rehome orphans from big cities through railways. It was started as a private / religious effort, but also became the genesis of child labor laws and government programs aimed at helping children. Because we tried relying on churches to assist the poor for centuries, and we have more than enough proof it's nowhere near enough.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:54 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by krinklyfig at 8:54 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
Because GREATEST means unfettered capitalism and biggest/most guns, not most humane and highest quality of life possible for most citizens.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Then why can't we feed hungry children and elderly?
"Because I don't want to pay for it!"
posted by ArgentCorvid at 8:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Because I don't want to pay for it!"
posted by ArgentCorvid at 8:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't understand how the election can stand as legitimate since there is likely no doubt within intelligence community that there was foreign interference. Do not get why nothing is being done.
Because there's nothing that can legally be done. Our system has two fail-safes in case the election goes sideways: Either the secretaries of state for individual state can refuse to certify their vote totals, or the electoral college disregards the popular vote when it elects the next president. Neither of those things happened, partly because the slow-drip release of information didn't come quickly enough to make a coherent case for it and partly because the Republicans who would have had to act in accordance with their consciences to trigger those steps don't actually have any.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
Because there's nothing that can legally be done. Our system has two fail-safes in case the election goes sideways: Either the secretaries of state for individual state can refuse to certify their vote totals, or the electoral college disregards the popular vote when it elects the next president. Neither of those things happened, partly because the slow-drip release of information didn't come quickly enough to make a coherent case for it and partly because the Republicans who would have had to act in accordance with their consciences to trigger those steps don't actually have any.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
Freedom. The reason is freedom.
SADLY, true. The only defense I've heard from Republicans is, "All Taxation is theft, I donate to charity. The government is wrong to take it at gunpoint."
Which, if you think, "Render unto Caesar..." makes your head spin.
OH LUNCHTIME. Off to the local for a perfect pint.
posted by mikelieman at 8:58 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
SADLY, true. The only defense I've heard from Republicans is, "All Taxation is theft, I donate to charity. The government is wrong to take it at gunpoint."
Which, if you think, "Render unto Caesar..." makes your head spin.
OH LUNCHTIME. Off to the local for a perfect pint.
posted by mikelieman at 8:58 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
In Warren Elllis' comic Transmetropolitan
Just spent the last five minutes confusing Warren Ellis with Garth Ennis. Hard to tell which one is more pertinent to our currently situation.
Because GREATEST means unfettered capitalism and biggest/most guns, not most humane and highest quality of life possible for most citizens.
Don't infringe my FREEDOM to starve in the richest country in the world, and die of preventable diseases! /stands at attention and salutes flag
posted by Existential Dread at 8:59 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Just spent the last five minutes confusing Warren Ellis with Garth Ennis. Hard to tell which one is more pertinent to our currently situation.
Because GREATEST means unfettered capitalism and biggest/most guns, not most humane and highest quality of life possible for most citizens.
Don't infringe my FREEDOM to starve in the richest country in the world, and die of preventable diseases! /stands at attention and salutes flag
posted by Existential Dread at 8:59 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Because GREATEST means unfettered capitalism and biggest/most guns, not most humane and highest quality of life possible for most citizens.
Real Republican Rational: "General Welfare doesn't mean the well fare of The People"...
Must get off to the local now...
posted by mikelieman at 9:00 AM on March 17, 2017
Real Republican Rational: "General Welfare doesn't mean the well fare of The People"...
Must get off to the local now...
posted by mikelieman at 9:00 AM on March 17, 2017
You know that Itchy and Scratchy cartoon where the cat Herschel a newspaper with the headline "YOU NEED A HEART TO LIVE"?
Like that, but for Libertarians and Republicans and it's "YOU NEED A FUNCTIONING SOCIETY TO LIVE IN".
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Like that, but for Libertarians and Republicans and it's "YOU NEED A FUNCTIONING SOCIETY TO LIVE IN".
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Because there's nothing that can legally be done
Law enforcement can arrest anyone for collaborating with foreign spies. Hell, we executed Ethel Rosenberg knowing she hadn't actually done more than look the other way while her husband colluded with Soviet spies. Trump is still a citizen, and more importantly, wasn't president at the time of his alleged crimes.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:01 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Law enforcement can arrest anyone for collaborating with foreign spies. Hell, we executed Ethel Rosenberg knowing she hadn't actually done more than look the other way while her husband colluded with Soviet spies. Trump is still a citizen, and more importantly, wasn't president at the time of his alleged crimes.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:01 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
2. They are waiting for N. Korea to invade S. Korea so it will be impossible to manage the constitutional crisis at the same time and he'll get a pass.
north korea is not going to invade south korea. even though they're more heavily militarized than their southern neighbors, they have half the population. much more likely that they'll drop a million pounds of shells on Seoul.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:02 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
north korea is not going to invade south korea. even though they're more heavily militarized than their southern neighbors, they have half the population. much more likely that they'll drop a million pounds of shells on Seoul.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:02 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
So back when the orange waste of skin was inviting Russia to interfere in the election by hacking HRC's emails, that doesn't count as treason?
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 9:03 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 9:03 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
So back when the orange waste of skin was inviting Russia to interfere in the election by hacking HRC's emails, that doesn't count as treason?
nothing is treason until someone tries to proscute for it, no matter how much you might want it to be. nothing is happening to trump because it's currently in the best interests of the congressional majority for nothing to happen to trump, and nothing will happen until that calculus changes.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:04 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
nothing is treason until someone tries to proscute for it, no matter how much you might want it to be. nothing is happening to trump because it's currently in the best interests of the congressional majority for nothing to happen to trump, and nothing will happen until that calculus changes.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:04 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
"If "Mulvaney wears Shamrock, denies famine funding" isn't enough, he also has a Book of Kells tie. That's literally the Gospel on his tie." (from Twitter.)
posted by dnash at 9:06 AM on March 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by dnash at 9:06 AM on March 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
Ah, apparently 'Spicer didn't claim that GCHQ wiretapped Trump, he was "simply pointing to public reports, not endorsing any specific story", says White House' (BBC radio reporting latest developments, just now).
It's hard work keeping up! We mustn't take the President's words too literarly, and Spicer angrily backing Trump up isn't an endorsement.
posted by Devonian at 9:07 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's hard work keeping up! We mustn't take the President's words too literarly, and Spicer angrily backing Trump up isn't an endorsement.
posted by Devonian at 9:07 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sorry to copy/paste a tweet, but @Hillary Clinton
Things I learned today.
RT: @PhilippeReines
Russians spy.
Health Care is complicated.
Diplomacy is exhausting.
Who knew?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:08 AM on March 17, 2017 [73 favorites]
Things I learned today.
RT: @PhilippeReines
Russians spy.
Health Care is complicated.
Diplomacy is exhausting.
Who knew?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:08 AM on March 17, 2017 [73 favorites]
There's a gif set making the rounds on Facebook from The Emperor's New Groove, where Yzma, the emperor's advisor (fantastically voiced by Eartha Kitt) is making a ruling on one of the emperor's subjects.
"It is no concern of mine whether your family has.. What was it?"
"Um... Food?"
"HA! You really should have thought of that before you became PEASANTS!"
That's pretty much what we're looking at here. They've turned being poor into a moral judgement. If you're poor, you must have done something to deserve it, and therefore are unworthy of help.
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:08 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
"It is no concern of mine whether your family has.. What was it?"
"Um... Food?"
"HA! You really should have thought of that before you became PEASANTS!"
That's pretty much what we're looking at here. They've turned being poor into a moral judgement. If you're poor, you must have done something to deserve it, and therefore are unworthy of help.
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:08 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
"If "Mulvaney wears Shamrock, denies famine funding" isn't enough, he also has a Book of Kells tie. That's literally the Gospel on his tie."
He went to Catholic high school and college! He probably thinks he's the most Catholic Catholic Who Ever Catholiced. See also: Bannon, Ryan.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:08 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
And again, when the calculus changes it will not be the Congressional majority that acts first because the idiots who think Trump is their pawn are the quintessential Smartest Guys In The Room who assume they're in control because they know how to use the rules to their advantage but don't take seriously the fact that when their mark gets an opening he'll say "fuck the rules, I have all the guns."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:10 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:10 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sorry to copy/paste a tweet, but @Hillary Clinton
This is amazing, btw. You can copy/paste this level of Twitter shade any day of the week.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:10 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
This is amazing, btw. You can copy/paste this level of Twitter shade any day of the week.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:10 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
Slothrop said: With respect to the food programs, I suspect the R's envision local church etc filling this void - you kill 2 birds with one stone.
I know a Southern Baptist preacher involved with national food aid in this country. He has directly attested to me before that churches can't even come close to meeting the demand. According to Second Harvest, a national food bank, 1 in 7 American families experience food insecurity each week.
I've mentioned before that I'm fairly involved in our local school district as a volunteer and as someone who regularly holds the school board and district administration feet to the fire. This is not a big district. It's a lot bigger than it used to be, but we're talking about a district with about 15,000 students, the vast majority of them elementary school. (We're building new schools every year, just in front of the age curve, it's kinda weird to watch.) Anyway, of those 15000 students, 29% are eligible for free breakfast/lunch.
That's 4300 kids that would be hungry. In a town where we cannot keep the charity food pantry filled already. The Catholic church here is a few hundred people. The Baptist church is a few thousand, but they pretty much seem unwilling to help anyone who isn't Baptist, so their food pantry is only available to their churchgoers, because, ya know, that's how Jesus apparently rolls in the Baptist texts.
Where is a town, already taxed to almost state maximums, going to find the resources to feed 30% of our population when the farms that used to produce food and cattle are now subdivisions filled with bedroom community commuters who retreat behind the gates of their golf course communities to watch Fox and bemoan poor people getting free bread.
I hate to seem Cassandra about this you guys, but seriously, this is the beginning of the end of the America we grew up in. We have taken a sharp right turn into PKDick dystopia, and if we don't manage to wrest the wheel away from the maniacs, we're all going off the cliff. How we stop them, I don't know. But stop them, we must.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:11 AM on March 17, 2017 [57 favorites]
I know a Southern Baptist preacher involved with national food aid in this country. He has directly attested to me before that churches can't even come close to meeting the demand. According to Second Harvest, a national food bank, 1 in 7 American families experience food insecurity each week.
I've mentioned before that I'm fairly involved in our local school district as a volunteer and as someone who regularly holds the school board and district administration feet to the fire. This is not a big district. It's a lot bigger than it used to be, but we're talking about a district with about 15,000 students, the vast majority of them elementary school. (We're building new schools every year, just in front of the age curve, it's kinda weird to watch.) Anyway, of those 15000 students, 29% are eligible for free breakfast/lunch.
That's 4300 kids that would be hungry. In a town where we cannot keep the charity food pantry filled already. The Catholic church here is a few hundred people. The Baptist church is a few thousand, but they pretty much seem unwilling to help anyone who isn't Baptist, so their food pantry is only available to their churchgoers, because, ya know, that's how Jesus apparently rolls in the Baptist texts.
Where is a town, already taxed to almost state maximums, going to find the resources to feed 30% of our population when the farms that used to produce food and cattle are now subdivisions filled with bedroom community commuters who retreat behind the gates of their golf course communities to watch Fox and bemoan poor people getting free bread.
I hate to seem Cassandra about this you guys, but seriously, this is the beginning of the end of the America we grew up in. We have taken a sharp right turn into PKDick dystopia, and if we don't manage to wrest the wheel away from the maniacs, we're all going off the cliff. How we stop them, I don't know. But stop them, we must.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:11 AM on March 17, 2017 [57 favorites]
omg, the white house daily email has a link to this Alexandra Petri piece, which clearly no one over there actually read.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:12 AM on March 17, 2017 [81 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 9:12 AM on March 17, 2017 [81 favorites]
Amid ‘Trump Effect’ Fear, 40% of Colleges See Dip in Foreign Applicants
In addition to the many many reasons why this is a bad thing, I want to also note that foreign students almost always pay full price tuition and increased international enrollment has been one way for universities to make ends meet without further tuition increases for domestic/in-state students. This is going to be really bad for university budgets.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
In addition to the many many reasons why this is a bad thing, I want to also note that foreign students almost always pay full price tuition and increased international enrollment has been one way for universities to make ends meet without further tuition increases for domestic/in-state students. This is going to be really bad for university budgets.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
Freedom. The reason is freedom.
Whenever you see freedom passively append, "to die in a ditch" to any Republican mentions of freedom.
So for instance, take some Paul Ryan quotes and you get:
"People are going to do what they want to do with their lives because we believe in individual freedom to die in a ditch in this country."
"So we feel an obligation to step in front of that collapse and replace this law with one that works, that has more freedom to die in a ditch."
Everything suddenly makes more sense.
posted by Talez at 9:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [34 favorites]
Whenever you see freedom passively append, "to die in a ditch" to any Republican mentions of freedom.
So for instance, take some Paul Ryan quotes and you get:
"People are going to do what they want to do with their lives because we believe in individual freedom to die in a ditch in this country."
"So we feel an obligation to step in front of that collapse and replace this law with one that works, that has more freedom to die in a ditch."
Everything suddenly makes more sense.
posted by Talez at 9:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [34 favorites]
If getting elected president absolves you of any crimes committed prior to taking office, I'm predicting we'll have a run of serial killers running out of other options becoming U.S. Presidents by century's end, if we survive intact until then. Gak.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:13 AM on March 17, 2017
posted by saulgoodman at 9:13 AM on March 17, 2017
If they don't want to feed the elderly and the children, then museums and the arts have no chance, but, as winna says: If the only things we fund as a country is killing people instead of supporting the exploration of beauty and the meaning of being human then what is the point.
The Proposed Funding Cuts & the Impact on Small and Rural Museums
How to speak up for museums, courtesy of the American Alliance of Museums.
posted by gudrun at 9:14 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
The Proposed Funding Cuts & the Impact on Small and Rural Museums
How to speak up for museums, courtesy of the American Alliance of Museums.
posted by gudrun at 9:14 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
"General Welfare doesn't mean the welfare of The People"
"General Welfare" means welfare for Generals, duh.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:16 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
"General Welfare" means welfare for Generals, duh.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:16 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
House Speaker Paul Ryan to Rich Lowry on capping Medicaid funding: "We’ve been dreaming of this since you and I were drinking out of a keg"
Soooo...your younger years were spent fantasizing about taking away people's health coverage?
Those are some Jeffrey Dahmer-level warning signs there, bro.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [87 favorites]
Soooo...your younger years were spent fantasizing about taking away people's health coverage?
Those are some Jeffrey Dahmer-level warning signs there, bro.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [87 favorites]
I've seen people argue, in apparent sincerity, that we can't put government in the business of helping the sick and poor, bcause then what will the churches do to fulfill their charitable mandate? My reaction to this is an incredulous, "Have you ever been to Earth? They've got a lot of poverty and misery and general tragedy there. I promise you that no matter how much you let the government welfare state do, there will still be sad people for you to help! Really, there is plenty of human misery and deprivation to go around and the government isn't going to take all of it."
In Warren Elllis' comic Transmetropolitan
Warren Ellis might not have been pessimistic enough. He thought people would be dumb enough to elect Gary Callahan. Turns out they're crazy enough to elect Bob Heller.
posted by jackbishop at 9:28 AM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
In Warren Elllis' comic Transmetropolitan
Warren Ellis might not have been pessimistic enough. He thought people would be dumb enough to elect Gary Callahan. Turns out they're crazy enough to elect Bob Heller.
posted by jackbishop at 9:28 AM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
[Tillerson] said for the first time that the Trump administration might be forced to take pre-emptive action “if they elevate the threat of their weapons program” to an unacceptable level.It's a pity I couldn't visit Seoul before the North shells the shit out of it.
Every fucking day there's a few more clusterfucks. History have mercy on us for we were fucking morons this election.
posted by Talez at 9:29 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
We combed Yeats, Heaney, Kavanagh, Joyce. They google "famous Irish proverbs" and pick one from a Geocities page.
Alexandra Petri's most recent piece was featured in the White House's 1600 Daily email this morning, so this administration can't even skim past the headline and understand that it's a parody: This was in today's email from the White House. So clearly, literally no one read the linked piece by @petridishes, did they?
posted by gladly at 9:31 AM on March 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
Alexandra Petri's most recent piece was featured in the White House's 1600 Daily email this morning, so this administration can't even skim past the headline and understand that it's a parody: This was in today's email from the White House. So clearly, literally no one read the linked piece by @petridishes, did they?
posted by gladly at 9:31 AM on March 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
because then what will the churches do to fulfill their charitable mandate?
This is some straight up Mother Teresa level sociopathic pain-fetishizing nonsense.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:32 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
This is some straight up Mother Teresa level sociopathic pain-fetishizing nonsense.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:32 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
omg, the white house daily email has a link to this Alexandra Petri piece, which clearly no one over there actually read.
OK, I'm calling it: 3.17.17, sarcasm in America is officially dead.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
OK, I'm calling it: 3.17.17, sarcasm in America is officially dead.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Soooo...your younger years were spent fantasizing about taking away people's health coverage?
Remarkable how right wing libertarian ideology and unexamined privilege are always showing up at the same parties.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
Remarkable how right wing libertarian ideology and unexamined privilege are always showing up at the same parties.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:34 AM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
mikelieman: Then why can't we feed hungry children and elderly?
dis_integration: Freedom. The reason is freedom.
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose ....
posted by filthy light thief at 9:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
dis_integration: Freedom. The reason is freedom.
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose ....
posted by filthy light thief at 9:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
OK, I'm calling it: 3.17.17, sarcasm in America is officially dead.
To be fair that is my favorite defense against sarcasm as well; responding as if it was said in earnest.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 9:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
To be fair that is my favorite defense against sarcasm as well; responding as if it was said in earnest.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 9:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
We tried having mutual aid societies and no government-subsidized social safety net. We decided that it didn't work, because we also decided that people dying on the streets isn't something we're down with as a society. That's why we have these things now. We already tried it the other way! It didn't work!
The tragic thing about that utterly salient point is "we tried that and it didn't work" extends from before the Gilded Age clear thru the 1930s at least, and beyond. Herbert Hoover was a talented engineer and by most accounts a good man, but he simply could not abandon his free market principles to intervene in the Great Depression.
We have the Pure Food and Drug Act for a reason. We have building codes for a reason. We have rules about coal mine safety, such as they are, for a reason. And those reasons usually took the form of piles of bodies.
Whenever you see freedom passively append, "to die in a ditch" to any Republican mentions of freedom.
And append to that, "so a wealthy person gets a cut in marginal tax rates."
posted by Gelatin at 9:38 AM on March 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
The tragic thing about that utterly salient point is "we tried that and it didn't work" extends from before the Gilded Age clear thru the 1930s at least, and beyond. Herbert Hoover was a talented engineer and by most accounts a good man, but he simply could not abandon his free market principles to intervene in the Great Depression.
We have the Pure Food and Drug Act for a reason. We have building codes for a reason. We have rules about coal mine safety, such as they are, for a reason. And those reasons usually took the form of piles of bodies.
Whenever you see freedom passively append, "to die in a ditch" to any Republican mentions of freedom.
And append to that, "so a wealthy person gets a cut in marginal tax rates."
posted by Gelatin at 9:38 AM on March 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
two questions evoke dread and horror in republicans: what will the poor do with money??? what will the rich do without it???
posted by prefpara at 9:41 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 9:41 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
omg, the white house daily email has a link to this Alexandra Petri piece, which clearly no one over there actually read.
I'm not so sure about that. I think it's just as likely they saw there was an article in the Washington Post titled "Trump’s budget makes perfect sense and will fix America, and I will tell you why" and figured "Hey great, we'll link that headline without explanation and it'll look serious for the majority of our readers who won't click the link, and those that do see that it's satire will just think 'lol liberal tears' and go about their day."
posted by contraption at 9:44 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm not so sure about that. I think it's just as likely they saw there was an article in the Washington Post titled "Trump’s budget makes perfect sense and will fix America, and I will tell you why" and figured "Hey great, we'll link that headline without explanation and it'll look serious for the majority of our readers who won't click the link, and those that do see that it's satire will just think 'lol liberal tears' and go about their day."
posted by contraption at 9:44 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
From way, way upthread: The problem isn't that people aren't being nice enough to miners (or whatever group), the problem is that miners (or whatever group) have been fed a line of bullshit that everyone is already sneering at them.
They're also being fed many other lines of bullshit designed to make $Group feel bad and weak, but turn to their abusers for help. This gets fig-leafed as "straight talk" but it's really intended to signal:
the 1 percent wannabes that "we know you're better than $Group and we won't make you pay for their problems or desires;"
the deplorables as "we agree with you that $Group is awful and we will be your friends in power because you've been right all along;"
the target, if they vote, gets "you have been put in bad circumstances that make you feel bad, though it's not your fault, but only we respect you enough to say so. Come hang out with us and/or take part in your most cherished fantasy" like coal jobs coming back. $Groups that don't vote or routinely vote D get "you are bad, you are undeserving, your vision of America and how you live your life is wrong, and here's how we're stripping the law of elements you like and here's your a ticket to deportation or prison."
The other one I hate ("Health care is complicated!) is the notion that when Democrats attempt nuanced discussion of complex issues requiring thoughtful consideration, Republicans tell $Group that these ideas are at best inferior to simplistic "common sense solutions" and at worst a way for the Democrats to obscure that they're not actually going to help or fix the problem.
See also: "your city is a crime-ridden hellscape" and "your candidates/elected officials are elitist shits screwing you over" but only I, Trump, can fix it.
posted by carmicha at 9:45 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
They're also being fed many other lines of bullshit designed to make $Group feel bad and weak, but turn to their abusers for help. This gets fig-leafed as "straight talk" but it's really intended to signal:
The other one I hate ("Health care is complicated!) is the notion that when Democrats attempt nuanced discussion of complex issues requiring thoughtful consideration, Republicans tell $Group that these ideas are at best inferior to simplistic "common sense solutions" and at worst a way for the Democrats to obscure that they're not actually going to help or fix the problem.
See also: "your city is a crime-ridden hellscape" and "your candidates/elected officials are elitist shits screwing you over" but only I, Trump, can fix it.
posted by carmicha at 9:45 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I lived in China for a while in the mid-90s if anyone wants to AMA on what happens to air and water when no one regulates industry. (There was a little stream in a culvert behind my compound. We called it 黑龙江 "Black Dragon River" after the real Black Dragon River in the north of the China. We called it that because the "water" was really jut 3 feet deep black, reeking sludge, wending its way above-ground through the suburbs of Shanghai.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:45 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:45 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
Re: Tillerson, reading this...
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson cut short his recent visit with South Korean officials due to "fatigue," the Korea Herald reported on Friday.
...this is like inviting someone over for dinner and then they drunkenly stagger over to the front door of your neighbour (with whom you've been having a long-simmering but manageable feud with about dog poop on the lawn and where the fenceline is) and start talking shit to them, and then when your neighbour says "BRB I'm going to get some buddies and we're going to burn down your house," your dinner guest is all like "Whew. I'm pooped. Going home to bed. Thanks for dinner!"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:47 AM on March 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson cut short his recent visit with South Korean officials due to "fatigue," the Korea Herald reported on Friday.
...this is like inviting someone over for dinner and then they drunkenly stagger over to the front door of your neighbour (with whom you've been having a long-simmering but manageable feud with about dog poop on the lawn and where the fenceline is) and start talking shit to them, and then when your neighbour says "BRB I'm going to get some buddies and we're going to burn down your house," your dinner guest is all like "Whew. I'm pooped. Going home to bed. Thanks for dinner!"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:47 AM on March 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
I lived in China for a while in the mid-90s if anyone wants to AMA on what happens to air and water when no one regulates industry.
I lived in urban America in the mid-70s, and the pictures of China remind me of that time, so yeah.
posted by Gelatin at 9:47 AM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
I lived in urban America in the mid-70s, and the pictures of China remind me of that time, so yeah.
posted by Gelatin at 9:47 AM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
That Petri piece has this joke (which made me chuckle):
"National Endowment for the Arts: The NEA will be destroyed and replaced with an armored helicopter with a shark painted on it."
Now, that line will be read by Trumpistas and they will cheer.
I guess what I'm saying is maybe the White House wasn't making a mistake including that link in their e-mail.
posted by valkane at 9:49 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
"National Endowment for the Arts: The NEA will be destroyed and replaced with an armored helicopter with a shark painted on it."
Now, that line will be read by Trumpistas and they will cheer.
I guess what I'm saying is maybe the White House wasn't making a mistake including that link in their e-mail.
posted by valkane at 9:49 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson cut short his recent visit with South Korean officials due to "fatigue," the Korea Herald reported on Friday.
Can you imagine if a presidential candidate had said she was tired on the diplomatic circuit? She would be pilloried!
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:50 AM on March 17, 2017 [38 favorites]
Can you imagine if a presidential candidate had said she was tired on the diplomatic circuit? She would be pilloried!
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:50 AM on March 17, 2017 [38 favorites]
They've turned being poor into a moral judgement.
It's pretty much been the GOP platform since ever.
posted by petebest at 9:51 AM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's pretty much been the GOP platform since ever.
posted by petebest at 9:51 AM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
kind of wondering how long it will be before trump issues a tweet that completely undoes any possible goodwill gained from issuing the apology
It's not a tweet, but it looks like they're denying that there was ever an apology. US Officials Won’t Say Whether The White House Actually Apologized To Britain For GCHQ Wiretap Claims:
It's not a tweet, but it looks like they're denying that there was ever an apology. US Officials Won’t Say Whether The White House Actually Apologized To Britain For GCHQ Wiretap Claims:
But US officials have been disputed whether the Trump administration had gone as far as an apology. One administration source told BuzzFeed News: “The UK demanded an apology, NSC worked overnight to try and smooth things over.”posted by peeedro at 9:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
The ambiguity over whether it was an apology puts pressure on Trump aides to clarify the exact nature of the conversation. Trump is legendarily opposed to apologizing.
And append to that, "so a wealthy person gets a cut in marginal tax rates."
They don't care about deficits when they're in charge. They literally just view the poor as disposable at best and an enemy to punish at worst.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
They don't care about deficits when they're in charge. They literally just view the poor as disposable at best and an enemy to punish at worst.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
If we don't use income to judge, how will we best be able to judge people at the vast scale required to fill our cold, dark hearts?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
I really think that it's not worthwhile to spend time being scandalized about the Republican Party's positions. We know that they're enemies of humanity; as such, we shouldn't pretend that exposing their hypocrisy or whatever has any value. They are nazis. nazis gonna nazi. discussing nazi positions in detail is only worthwhile insofar as it's a tool to fuel anti-nazi action.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:59 AM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:59 AM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson cut short his recent visit with South Korean officials due to "fatigue," the Korea Herald reported on Friday.
Reading that headline this morning made me immediately worried that Tillerson knew something the rest of us didn't about shit about to go down.
posted by nubs at 10:01 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Reading that headline this morning made me immediately worried that Tillerson knew something the rest of us didn't about shit about to go down.
posted by nubs at 10:01 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
They don't care about deficits when they're in charge. They literally just view the poor as disposable at best and an enemy to punish at worst.
They are also cynically willing to use the poor as hostages...
posted by puddledork at 10:01 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
They are also cynically willing to use the poor as hostages...
posted by puddledork at 10:01 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's also the Four Big Pollution Diseases of Japan which came from unregulated industrial pollution there during the 20th century.
posted by XMLicious at 10:04 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 10:04 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Because we tried relying on churches to assist the poor for centuries, and we have more than enough proof it's nowhere near enough.
Not to mention that Jesus commented once that there would always be poor people, so not even all Christian theocrats believe that churches are obligated to relieve the effects of poverty.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:05 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not to mention that Jesus commented once that there would always be poor people, so not even all Christian theocrats believe that churches are obligated to relieve the effects of poverty.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:05 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Josh Barro:
If you think about international incidents on a scale from "easy to de-escalate" to "hard to de-escalate," "stupid accusation against GCHQ" is way out on the "easy" end. And yet, this White House cannot even fix that one correctly.posted by dnash at 10:06 AM on March 17, 2017 [31 favorites]
As you watch the White House fail to fix this easy-to-fix screw-up, do you have any confidence in them to manage a confrontation with North Korea with a clear eye toward avoiding millions of deaths on the Korean Peninsula? What will happen if Trump feels de-escalating the situation in Korea will involve a loss of face for him?
Reading that headline this morning made me immediately worried that Tillerson knew something the rest of us didn't about shit about to go down.
Probably just avoiding being anywhere where he might accidentally have to do diplomacy or be useful in any way.
posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Probably just avoiding being anywhere where he might accidentally have to do diplomacy or be useful in any way.
posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Handshake-gate, Germany edition
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:12 AM on March 17, 2017 [57 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:12 AM on March 17, 2017 [57 favorites]
As you watch the White House fail to fix this easy-to-fix screw-up, do you have any confidence in them to manage a confrontation with North Korea with a clear eye toward avoiding millions of deaths on the Korean Peninsula?
In fairness avoiding millions of deaths is probably not a Trump goal.
posted by Artw at 10:12 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
In fairness avoiding millions of deaths is probably not a Trump goal.
posted by Artw at 10:12 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Probably just avoiding being anywhere where he might accidentally have to do diplomacy or be useful in any way.
I prefer to think of it as him "attempting diplomacy" (like I do in D&D games, and roll a 1)
posted by nubs at 10:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
I prefer to think of it as him "attempting diplomacy" (like I do in D&D games, and roll a 1)
posted by nubs at 10:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
First on CNN: White House jumper on grounds for 15 minutes before caught, Secret Service source says: Secret Service officials are conducting a formal Mission Assurance Review to the incident. They say the 26-year-old California man carrying a backpack jumped multiple fences at the White House complex and set off multiple alarm sensors before he was discovered just steps from a main door to the mansion.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:16 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:16 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
FBI Arrests Man Who Allegedly Used Twitter To Cause Seizure Of Newsweek Writer
Kurt Eichenwald, said writer, on Twitter just now:
More than 40 ppl sent strobes once they found out they could trigger seizures. Details of their cases are with the FBI. Stop sending them.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:16 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Kurt Eichenwald, said writer, on Twitter just now:
More than 40 ppl sent strobes once they found out they could trigger seizures. Details of their cases are with the FBI. Stop sending them.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:16 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
So when are we gonna start referring to Merkel as 'Leader of the free world'? (I vote for today)
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:17 AM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:17 AM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
Handshake-gate, Germany edition
Grumpy manchild thought he'd have most of St Shamrock Shake's Day off, but is forced to meet leader of free world.
posted by holgate at 10:19 AM on March 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
Grumpy manchild thought he'd have most of St Shamrock Shake's Day off, but is forced to meet leader of free world.
posted by holgate at 10:19 AM on March 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
So when are we gonna start referring to Merkel as 'Leader of the free world'?
Last November, I'm pretty sure.
posted by Gaz Errant at 10:19 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
Last November, I'm pretty sure.
posted by Gaz Errant at 10:19 AM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
But because it has the words "incompetent", you were getting a lot of perfectly fine people who were being barred from firearms just because they were shitty with money. That's a problem.
Whether it really is a problem I am kind of ambivalent about; having lived through decades when it was considered perfectly reasonable to use credit reports to determine whether a person was a sufficiently responsible person to get a retail job and having sat through grodd knows how many interviews to determine whether someone deserved a secret clearance and answered the most moronic questions, I am unsure I think it's that crazy to say that if you can't wrangle the day to day aspects of life then maybe you're not in a mental place where you should have a deadly weapon. I'm also pretty skeptical that this sort of thing tends to exist in a vacuum, where people are only bad with money, versus it being a part of a larger issue.
But set that aside. My bigger issue here is that if we do call this a problem then we have patched it in the stupid and riskier way. These rules came out of perceived agency obligations under the Brady Act to report what they know and who they report comes from statute. I didn't turn up the VA record but there's a related on using similar criteria for Social Security benefits. You can read the entire rule here, and here's the troubling thing about how this is being handled:
Additionally, they didn't just change the reporting obligations to NICS to address this problem; they have altered the very classification system for folks who might be seen as a danger to themselves or others. In order to not sweep up folks into the bad with money group they have now removed the ability for those VA boards to report people they do perceive as a danger to themselves.
I don't know whether the VA reporting included it, but if you look at the SSI reporting rule I linked above you find they had a whole notice, appeal, and reversal criteria system set up. Yes, it would have been irksome to get swept up in that and have to push back just because of financial problems. But now we're solving the issue of a sticky door by knocking down a whole wall. There was a system to overcome this issue. Now there's no system to make sure this new swath of people actually get reported.
posted by phearlez at 10:20 AM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
Whether it really is a problem I am kind of ambivalent about; having lived through decades when it was considered perfectly reasonable to use credit reports to determine whether a person was a sufficiently responsible person to get a retail job and having sat through grodd knows how many interviews to determine whether someone deserved a secret clearance and answered the most moronic questions, I am unsure I think it's that crazy to say that if you can't wrangle the day to day aspects of life then maybe you're not in a mental place where you should have a deadly weapon. I'm also pretty skeptical that this sort of thing tends to exist in a vacuum, where people are only bad with money, versus it being a part of a larger issue.
But set that aside. My bigger issue here is that if we do call this a problem then we have patched it in the stupid and riskier way. These rules came out of perceived agency obligations under the Brady Act to report what they know and who they report comes from statute. I didn't turn up the VA record but there's a related on using similar criteria for Social Security benefits. You can read the entire rule here, and here's the troubling thing about how this is being handled:
Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(4), any person `who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution' is prohibited from shipping, transporting, possessing or receiving firearms under federal firearms laws. ATF has clarified through regulations that this prohibitor covers the following circumstances and categories of individuals:So the "problem" of other folks getting caught up in this sweep is that they're getting caught in the second condition: Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his or her own affairs. Corb etc think it's unreasonable to draw this line such that it includes folks just because they were shitty with money. But the thing is, this bill doesn't amend 922 only to carve out an exclusion there. Here's what it does:
(1) A determination by a court, board, commission or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition or disease:
○ Is a danger to himself, herself or others; or
○ Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his or her own affairs.
This includes (1) a person found to be insane by a court in a criminal case, and (2) a person found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility pursuant to articles 50a and 76b of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. 850a, 876b.
Chapter 55 of title 38, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:So this isn't just carving out a notch for the folks with organizational issues. The old way said that, in addition to a court, a board, commission or other lawful authority could make a determination that this person is a danger to themselves or others. That's done under this change. Now it's only judges, and courts are backed up all to shit already and nobody has slashes their budgets yet.
5511.Conditions for treatment of certain persons as adjudicated mentally incompetent for certain purposes
In any case arising out of the administration by the Secretary of laws and benefits under this title, a person who is mentally incapacitated, deemed mentally incompetent, or experiencing an extended loss of consciousness shall not be considered adjudicated as a mental defective under subsection (d)(4) or (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18 without the order or finding of a judge, magistrate, or other judicial authority of competent jurisdiction that such person is a danger to himself or herself or others.
Additionally, they didn't just change the reporting obligations to NICS to address this problem; they have altered the very classification system for folks who might be seen as a danger to themselves or others. In order to not sweep up folks into the bad with money group they have now removed the ability for those VA boards to report people they do perceive as a danger to themselves.
I don't know whether the VA reporting included it, but if you look at the SSI reporting rule I linked above you find they had a whole notice, appeal, and reversal criteria system set up. Yes, it would have been irksome to get swept up in that and have to push back just because of financial problems. But now we're solving the issue of a sticky door by knocking down a whole wall. There was a system to overcome this issue. Now there's no system to make sure this new swath of people actually get reported.
posted by phearlez at 10:20 AM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
FBI Arrests Man Who Allegedly Used Twitter To Cause Seizure Of Newsweek Writer
the ad that played before this page loaded contained strobelike images of flickering static, I note with no small measure of irony
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:21 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
the ad that played before this page loaded contained strobelike images of flickering static, I note with no small measure of irony
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:21 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Reading that headline this morning made me immediately worried that Tillerson knew something the rest of us didn't about shit about to go down.
My theory was Tillerson was trying to provoke an international incident to prove that he is too the Secretary of State, not Jared. Would fit in to the pattern of the rest of Trump's admin desperately undercutting each other in an attempt to force Trump's hand.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:22 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
My theory was Tillerson was trying to provoke an international incident to prove that he is too the Secretary of State, not Jared. Would fit in to the pattern of the rest of Trump's admin desperately undercutting each other in an attempt to force Trump's hand.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:22 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Because there's nothing that can legally be done
Law enforcement can arrest anyone for collaborating with foreign spies.
I'm starting to think "collaboration" is going to be very hard to prove. Or rather, I think we already have all the proof we're likely to get, which is pretty convincing to me, but technically just circumstantial still.
We already know a bunch of campaign staff were talking to Kislyak during the campaign and during the hacking. We already know Trump made a lot of very public Putin-friendly policy promises. We already know Trump DID in fact ask the Russians to hack Hillary's e-mail because he did that publicly! (After the DNC hacks but before the Podesta hacks). We already know that Trump decided to use the hacked e-mails in his campaign, quoting (and misrepresenting) them in speeches. So that's quite a bit of evidence already that the Trump campaign gave the Russians signals that they would not mind if Russia hacked Democrats, and that if Trump won there might be benefits in it for Russia, and that the hacked e-mails were incorporated into Trump's campaign strategy.
So what are we looking for here, beyond that (already highly compromising, in my view) stuff we already know about? Evidence that the Russians told the campaign what they were were going to do before they started? 1) Why would they need to explicitly do that? When they already knew that they were simpatico with Trump from public statements many private talks about policy, and even, before the Podesta hacks, that Trump would not mind them hacking Hillary's e-mail, since he asked them to publicly? What further communication do they really need? 2) If they were going to talk about it anyway, they had lots of opportunities at in person meetings (like that one in the unfinished hotel). So unless someone was wearing a wire, how would we get evidence of it?
On the other hand, I would not be surprised at this point if evidence turns up that Trump was involved in money laundering for Russian oligarchs. But I think money laundering through complicated shell companies etc takes a lot of investigation to track down and prove. I kind of think if there is any bombshell classified evidence behind the very serious "no comment" faces, its likely to be money laundering evidence, and its probably still inconclusive. I wonder if the server which was in communication with Alfa Bank actually had something to do with that...
(These opinions may or may not contradict opinions I have posted previously. I feel like we keep getting additional TINY pieces of the puzzle...)
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:22 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Law enforcement can arrest anyone for collaborating with foreign spies.
I'm starting to think "collaboration" is going to be very hard to prove. Or rather, I think we already have all the proof we're likely to get, which is pretty convincing to me, but technically just circumstantial still.
We already know a bunch of campaign staff were talking to Kislyak during the campaign and during the hacking. We already know Trump made a lot of very public Putin-friendly policy promises. We already know Trump DID in fact ask the Russians to hack Hillary's e-mail because he did that publicly! (After the DNC hacks but before the Podesta hacks). We already know that Trump decided to use the hacked e-mails in his campaign, quoting (and misrepresenting) them in speeches. So that's quite a bit of evidence already that the Trump campaign gave the Russians signals that they would not mind if Russia hacked Democrats, and that if Trump won there might be benefits in it for Russia, and that the hacked e-mails were incorporated into Trump's campaign strategy.
So what are we looking for here, beyond that (already highly compromising, in my view) stuff we already know about? Evidence that the Russians told the campaign what they were were going to do before they started? 1) Why would they need to explicitly do that? When they already knew that they were simpatico with Trump from public statements many private talks about policy, and even, before the Podesta hacks, that Trump would not mind them hacking Hillary's e-mail, since he asked them to publicly? What further communication do they really need? 2) If they were going to talk about it anyway, they had lots of opportunities at in person meetings (like that one in the unfinished hotel). So unless someone was wearing a wire, how would we get evidence of it?
On the other hand, I would not be surprised at this point if evidence turns up that Trump was involved in money laundering for Russian oligarchs. But I think money laundering through complicated shell companies etc takes a lot of investigation to track down and prove. I kind of think if there is any bombshell classified evidence behind the very serious "no comment" faces, its likely to be money laundering evidence, and its probably still inconclusive. I wonder if the server which was in communication with Alfa Bank actually had something to do with that...
(These opinions may or may not contradict opinions I have posted previously. I feel like we keep getting additional TINY pieces of the puzzle...)
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:22 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Handshake-gate, Germany edition
Can't listen to the audio right now, but the visual is horrifying enough. Trump's head shake and eyeroll, his contempt (not even barely concealed). This half-man is in an official meeting with the leader of the free world and he can't even hide his misogynistic seething much less play at diplomatic photography. I have observed this look only in sullen toddlers and sociopathic, abusive men in my life.
posted by orbit-3 at 10:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [55 favorites]
Can't listen to the audio right now, but the visual is horrifying enough. Trump's head shake and eyeroll, his contempt (not even barely concealed). This half-man is in an official meeting with the leader of the free world and he can't even hide his misogynistic seething much less play at diplomatic photography. I have observed this look only in sullen toddlers and sociopathic, abusive men in my life.
posted by orbit-3 at 10:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [55 favorites]
watching trump's body language with merkel is fucking amazing. shoulders down, mouth down, head down, elbows drawn into the body, hands pressed together and that nervous little finger-pressing half-clap. total fucking refusal to make eye contact. and then merkel leaning over and asking nicely if they're gonna do a handshake, like you'd do with a toddler in a social situation, and EVEN THEN HE WON'T LOOK HER IN THE EYE.
HE WON'T EVEN SAY NO. HE WON'T LOOK AT HER. HE KEEPS STARING OFF INTO THE MIDDLE DISTANCE.
jesus. fucking. c h r i s t.
strong and dynamic leader who can stand up to foreign powers, my fucking foot.
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [145 favorites]
HE WON'T EVEN SAY NO. HE WON'T LOOK AT HER. HE KEEPS STARING OFF INTO THE MIDDLE DISTANCE.
jesus. fucking. c h r i s t.
strong and dynamic leader who can stand up to foreign powers, my fucking foot.
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:25 AM on March 17, 2017 [145 favorites]
So when are we gonna start referring to Merkel as 'Leader of the free world'?
Per Mr. Takei on Inauguration Day, it happened on January 20th.
@GeorgeTakei
The peaceful transfer of power is a thing of beauty. One moment Barack Obama is leader of the Free World. A moment later it's Angela Merkel.
posted by chris24 at 10:27 AM on March 17, 2017 [77 favorites]
Per Mr. Takei on Inauguration Day, it happened on January 20th.
@GeorgeTakei
The peaceful transfer of power is a thing of beauty. One moment Barack Obama is leader of the Free World. A moment later it's Angela Merkel.
posted by chris24 at 10:27 AM on March 17, 2017 [77 favorites]
When I watched the handshake debacle with Chancellor Merkel, it looked to me like he actually didn't hear the question; he just seemed really out of it.
posted by MrVisible at 10:30 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by MrVisible at 10:30 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
also, i cannot even tell you how familiar merkel's micro-expression in this gif is to me.
like that mix of annoyance, amusement, okay-i guess, and omg-not-gonna-let-this-fucking-rattle-me-because-i'm-a-fucking-professional?
i see it on the faces of so many women that i work with. apparently, like pantsuits, it's part of the basic equipment for professional women who have to restrain themselves and play nice in public with male shitgibbons that they completely outclass.
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [90 favorites]
like that mix of annoyance, amusement, okay-i guess, and omg-not-gonna-let-this-fucking-rattle-me-because-i'm-a-fucking-professional?
i see it on the faces of so many women that i work with. apparently, like pantsuits, it's part of the basic equipment for professional women who have to restrain themselves and play nice in public with male shitgibbons that they completely outclass.
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [90 favorites]
WSJ: Kellyanne Conway’s Husband Is Set to Lead Justice Department Division : WASHINGTON—George Conway, the husband of senior White House adviser Kellyanne Conway, is set to be nominated to run the Justice Department’s civil division, according to people familiar with the matter, a job that would put him at the forefront defending the controversial immigration executive order and other lawsuits against the Trump administration.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
MrVisible, yeah that's the passive-aggressive plausible deniability aspect of the behavior that makes it truly revolting. Trump does not have a hearing problem (that we know of) and this isn't his first handshake-expected meeting.
posted by erisfree at 10:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by erisfree at 10:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
He's probably still fuming from this shade Enda Kenny threw at him yesterday.
posted by Preserver at 10:41 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Preserver at 10:41 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
First it was Shrub with the back-rub now she has to put up with this toddler.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 10:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 10:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
CNN: White House fence jumper was on the White House south grounds for 15 minutes or more before he was caught Friday.
..@CBSnews has learned #Secret Service agent's laptop stolen in #NY has #national security information about #Trump.
@kenvogel
Source tells me that protective perimeter pins & other @SecretService communication equipment also was stolen, and that USSS is FREAKING.
So... not a great day for the Secret Service it seems.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:43 AM on March 17, 2017 [44 favorites]
..@CBSnews has learned #Secret Service agent's laptop stolen in #NY has #national security information about #Trump.
@kenvogel
Source tells me that protective perimeter pins & other @SecretService communication equipment also was stolen, and that USSS is FREAKING.
So... not a great day for the Secret Service it seems.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:43 AM on March 17, 2017 [44 favorites]
He deserved a "bless your heart".
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 10:44 AM on March 17, 2017
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 10:44 AM on March 17, 2017
Exactly joyceanmachine, that's exactly what I saw first in the video as well. A calm realization of "Ok, well, now I know what I'm working with. I've done it before. I've got this."
posted by meinvt at 10:45 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by meinvt at 10:45 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Thanks for digging into that, phearlez.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:45 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:45 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
It seems to me that Donald Trump acts this way around women who possess the intelligence, self-confidence, and power he could never hope to grasp. He doesn't probe any deeper past his superficial and infantile belief that all women are beneath him, but must instinctively know (and resent) his uselessness when compared to Angela Merkel, Hillary Clinton, etc. It's the body and facial language of someone who doesn't have the emotional or intellectual tools to even recognize, much less cope with, his own cognitive dissonance. The only woman who escapes this is Ivanka, and only because he sees his own reflection in her (which honestly probably also accounts for his weird sexual attraction).
posted by orbit-3 at 10:47 AM on March 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by orbit-3 at 10:47 AM on March 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
also, i cannot even tell you how familiar merkel's micro-expression in this gif is to me.
like that mix of annoyance, amusement, okay-i guess, and omg-not-gonna-let-this-fucking-rattle-me-because-i'm-a-fucking-professional?
With at least a little bit of this face.
posted by Mchelly at 10:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
like that mix of annoyance, amusement, okay-i guess, and omg-not-gonna-let-this-fucking-rattle-me-because-i'm-a-fucking-professional?
With at least a little bit of this face.
posted by Mchelly at 10:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
"... because he sees himself in her ..."
eww
posted by logicpunk at 10:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
eww
posted by logicpunk at 10:48 AM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trump seems pathetic, like genuinely pathetic, in that shot. Like, more than anything he looks senile. And then, inspired by the gender-swapped performance of the debate that was linked here a couple of weeks back, I thought about how that scene would play out with Merkel as a man and Trump as a woman. And I can't picture it. I think if I were able to picture it, I'd see what nazis see when they look at Trump and when they look at Merkel.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
Trump's idea of hell: watching helplessly as a world full of women gleefully ignores him and does everything brilliantly and better than he ever could.
posted by emjaybee at 10:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 10:53 AM on March 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
I think he doesn't have any ability to value women who aren't conventional-model-attractive (with all the ageism, anorexia-encouraging and expectation of revealing or form-fitting clothing that goes with it). The men to whom all women over 45 are almost literally invisible. I genuinely don't believe he believes Merkel is intelligent, or powerful, or possibly even competent. He looks like he's humoring her. And like he wants everyone there to know it. It's sickening.
I suspect, though, we'll see a different Trump attitude when (if) he meets Queen Elizabeth. Because to him, I suspect, she's actually powerful, even if that's only because her face is on money.
posted by Mchelly at 10:54 AM on March 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
I suspect, though, we'll see a different Trump attitude when (if) he meets Queen Elizabeth. Because to him, I suspect, she's actually powerful, even if that's only because her face is on money.
posted by Mchelly at 10:54 AM on March 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
Merkel must be all like "How many more times am I going to sit beside YET ANOTHER orange-hued kleptocratic misogynist who won't treat me like a goddamn human being and be expected to not lose my shit? Surely there is a German word for that."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:55 AM on March 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
Ok but ya'll this means we get more Kate McKinnon-as-Merkel on SNL though.
posted by emjaybee at 10:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 10:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
> I suspect, though, we'll see a different Trump attitude when (if) he meets Queen Elizabeth.
I suspect that Liz has realized that she'd rather die than meet with Donald Trump and has decided that as such it's about time to be leaving.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
I suspect that Liz has realized that she'd rather die than meet with Donald Trump and has decided that as such it's about time to be leaving.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:57 AM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
At least he had the good manners to sit down next to Merkel and not perform another alpha primate display by lurking around the room behind her and humping a chair.
posted by peeedro at 10:59 AM on March 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 10:59 AM on March 17, 2017 [33 favorites]
One of the reporters or photographers asked him a question just a few seconds before the handshake suggestion was made, and he seemed to have a very negative reaction to it. Anyone know what that question was? I couldn't make it out. Almost looked like he was still distracted by whatever that was. Maybe that was the first handshake question?
posted by christopherious at 11:07 AM on March 17, 2017
posted by christopherious at 11:07 AM on March 17, 2017
At least he had the good manners to sit down next to Merkel and not perform another alpha primate display by lurking around the room behind her and humping a chair.
He is presidential!
posted by kirkaracha at 11:09 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Merkel's writing notes as Trump speaks on NATO members paying their 2% share. Is this a debate?
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
"...And since he wasn't looking at her, perhaps this one has an innocent explanation."
Righty-o, he innocently was ignoring the leader of Germany who was right there in the room with him less than two feet away.
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [39 favorites]
Righty-o, he innocently was ignoring the leader of Germany who was right there in the room with him less than two feet away.
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [39 favorites]
In all fairness, it seemed to me that he didn't hear her. I know I couldn't hear a thing she said. And since he wasn't looking at her, perhaps this one has an innocent explanation.
Watch it again. He hears her and he hears the photographer (?) near Merkel and responds to her by barely turning his head but does move his eyes. He's making an effort not to turn his head. He also hears Merkel talking, watch closely and you will see it.
Merkel and Trump just started their press conference. Donnie is reading a prepared statement.
posted by futz at 11:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Watch it again. He hears her and he hears the photographer (?) near Merkel and responds to her by barely turning his head but does move his eyes. He's making an effort not to turn his head. He also hears Merkel talking, watch closely and you will see it.
Merkel and Trump just started their press conference. Donnie is reading a prepared statement.
posted by futz at 11:13 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Merkel's writing notes as Trump speaks on NATO members paying their 2% share. Is this a debate?
Ah, you know how it is. You doodle, or you take notes, or you start laughing at the gibbon in a suit next to you until you burst a blood vessel all over the podium.
posted by Etrigan at 11:15 AM on March 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
Ah, you know how it is. You doodle, or you take notes, or you start laughing at the gibbon in a suit next to you until you burst a blood vessel all over the podium.
posted by Etrigan at 11:15 AM on March 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
Fired U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara Said to Have Been Investigating HHS Secretary Tom Price [ProPublica]
posted by melissasaurus at 11:21 AM on March 17, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 11:21 AM on March 17, 2017 [53 favorites]
What a shitty little clown. I want to send Merkel a beer or five for having to politely put up with that shit. I know she's probably used to insecure men being embarrassing assholes to her, she must be, any woman in power knows that dance, but fucking fuck it must get really old.
posted by lydhre at 11:26 AM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 11:26 AM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
Just called the German press "fake news" because she called him an isolationist
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:27 AM on March 17, 2017
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:27 AM on March 17, 2017
So a reporter from the German Press Agency is outright asking Merkel a half-dozen questions about how terrible Trump is, right in front of Trump (do you believe this isolationist policy is dangerous? is it bad to keep calling stuff fake news?). Trump takes the question, sneers at the reporter, says that calling him isolationist is fake news. (video)
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on March 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on March 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
I feel like, similarly to some of Obama's last words as President, the Chancellor is speaking as much to Trump directly as she is to the US or to Germany.
Reminding him (or just informing him for the first time, really) of the history of the peace and prosperity that was built, seventy years ago, on the ruins of Europe.
We have a President who does not understand these things in his bones. This is not normal.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:29 AM on March 17, 2017 [37 favorites]
Reminding him (or just informing him for the first time, really) of the history of the peace and prosperity that was built, seventy years ago, on the ruins of Europe.
We have a President who does not understand these things in his bones. This is not normal.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:29 AM on March 17, 2017 [37 favorites]
Handshake-gate, Germany edition
He looks confused and unwell—just what I want in a President.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:30 AM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
He looks confused and unwell—just what I want in a President.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:30 AM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
you know i look at the donald trump on the cover of The Art of the Deal and then at the donald trump in this press conference and i am like "shit i have got to start taking better care of myself"
posted by murphy slaw at 11:32 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 11:32 AM on March 17, 2017 [14 favorites]
I could barely watch the non-handshake video, it was so horribly infuriating. This is so utterly beyond the pale; I don't know where to put my anger. He ignored Merkel outright and, as is per usual in this new world order, didn't get called out on it by anybody official. Trump acted aggressively misogynistic and enormously disrespectful and is going to go golfing again this weekend and propose grotesque cuts and when does it stop. Goddammit.
posted by but no cigar at 11:33 AM on March 17, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by but no cigar at 11:33 AM on March 17, 2017 [34 favorites]
Don't you think he looks tired?
posted by Etrigan at 11:33 AM on March 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 11:33 AM on March 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
What was that aside from Trump to the effect of "Angela Merkel and I have something in common" wrt claims of wiretapping about?
I don't know but I intuit it's horrible and offensive.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:36 AM on March 17, 2017
I don't know but I intuit it's horrible and offensive.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:36 AM on March 17, 2017
Trump: "In response to wiretapping by this previous administration, at least we [him and Merkel] have something in common perhaps"
With a ridiculous smirk on his face. It didn't exactly land as well as I'm sure he thought it would.
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
With a ridiculous smirk on his face. It didn't exactly land as well as I'm sure he thought it would.
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
So... not a great day for the Secret Service it seems.
It's been at least a bad decade for them.
posted by srboisvert at 11:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's been at least a bad decade for them.
posted by srboisvert at 11:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Don't you think he looks tired?
No offense to you, but I am kind of sick of people repeating this. Firstly, because if the showrunners of Doctor Who actually knew how to bring down administrations, they would be doing it, not making TV shows. Secondly, because even in show it was clear it only worked because sexism. Men can look tired all day and no one cares because they aren't expected to be dewy-eyed beauties while dealing with national catastrophe.
posted by corb at 11:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
No offense to you, but I am kind of sick of people repeating this. Firstly, because if the showrunners of Doctor Who actually knew how to bring down administrations, they would be doing it, not making TV shows. Secondly, because even in show it was clear it only worked because sexism. Men can look tired all day and no one cares because they aren't expected to be dewy-eyed beauties while dealing with national catastrophe.
posted by corb at 11:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
Don't you think he looks tired?
Well, it's Friday afternoon and he's still in the office! What do you expect, most self-respecting billionaires have jetted off to their resorts by now.
posted by nubs at 11:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well, it's Friday afternoon and he's still in the office! What do you expect, most self-respecting billionaires have jetted off to their resorts by now.
posted by nubs at 11:37 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
In E-mails, Neil Gorsuch Praised a Leading Republican Activist Behind Voter Suppression Efforts
Few people in the Republican Party have done more to limit voting rights than Hans von Spakovsky. He’s been instrumental in spreading the myth of widespread voter fraud and backing new restrictions to make it harder to vote.
But it appears that von Spakovsky had an admirer in Neil Gorsuch, Donald Trump’s nominee for the Supreme Court, according to e-mails released to the Senate Judiciary Committee covering Gorsuch’s time working in the George W. Bush Administration.
posted by futz at 11:38 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Few people in the Republican Party have done more to limit voting rights than Hans von Spakovsky. He’s been instrumental in spreading the myth of widespread voter fraud and backing new restrictions to make it harder to vote.
But it appears that von Spakovsky had an admirer in Neil Gorsuch, Donald Trump’s nominee for the Supreme Court, according to e-mails released to the Senate Judiciary Committee covering Gorsuch’s time working in the George W. Bush Administration.
posted by futz at 11:38 AM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump: "In response to wiretapping by this previous administration, at least we [him and Merkel] have something in common perhaps"
Holy shit did he really?
Also for god's sake Trump, you can declassify anything you want. So if there's evidence, just release it, you monster.
posted by dis_integration at 11:39 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Holy shit did he really?
Also for god's sake Trump, you can declassify anything you want. So if there's evidence, just release it, you monster.
posted by dis_integration at 11:39 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Secondly, because even in show it was clear it only worked because sexism.
Kinda the joke there, yeah.
posted by Etrigan at 11:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Kinda the joke there, yeah.
posted by Etrigan at 11:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hannity has the more important job, coming up with and pushing conspiracies and venom for the Trumpist partisans in the hinterlands. That's why he makes 30mil a year. Spicer is a flack who repeats lies to the lowlife media
That is precisely how you make the climb from flack to Fox making 30mil a year. Gotta pay your dues.
posted by JackFlash at 11:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
That is precisely how you make the climb from flack to Fox making 30mil a year. Gotta pay your dues.
posted by JackFlash at 11:40 AM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Here's the video on that. The more interesting part is what he says after, where he says "you shouldn't be talking to me, you should be talking to Fox" about the wiretapping claims he made. [real]
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on March 17, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on March 17, 2017
I probably misheard but did trump call Merkel "sweetheart" at the very end. I thought I heard "thank you sweetheart".
posted by futz at 11:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by futz at 11:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ah, yes, I remember now.
Trump has no concept of the continuity of the American government from Administration to Administration. He's perfectly willing to bring up a sore point in German-American relations because in his mind, Obama was not ever a legitimate representative of the United States.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump has no concept of the continuity of the American government from Administration to Administration. He's perfectly willing to bring up a sore point in German-American relations because in his mind, Obama was not ever a legitimate representative of the United States.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:42 AM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Shoutout to MeFi's own LooseFilter for a very enlightening and stimulating podcast episode about hyperreality and our current situation. I listened to it on my run this afternoon. Good stuff.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:43 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:43 AM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
What was that aside from Trump to the effect of "Angela Merkel and I have something in common" wrt claims of wiretapping about?
Per the Snowden leaks, we know that the NSA reportedly tapped Merkel's phone, so presumably it's insinuating that the same thing was done to him.
posted by Candleman at 11:43 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Per the Snowden leaks, we know that the NSA reportedly tapped Merkel's phone, so presumably it's insinuating that the same thing was done to him.
posted by Candleman at 11:43 AM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Approved Daughter got to sit next to Angela Merkel, still has no official title.
posted by holgate at 11:43 AM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by holgate at 11:43 AM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Don't you think he looks tired?
While I have many curses that I'd like to put on this shitgibbon, I'm banking most of my hopes that he will never complete a full REM cycle ever again.
posted by otenba at 11:45 AM on March 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
While I have many curses that I'd like to put on this shitgibbon, I'm banking most of my hopes that he will never complete a full REM cycle ever again.
posted by otenba at 11:45 AM on March 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
"you shouldn't be talking to me, you should be talking to Fox"
The buck stops somewhere else.
posted by peeedro at 11:46 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
The buck stops somewhere else.
posted by peeedro at 11:46 AM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
Justice Department statement: DOJ has complied with House & Senate Intel Committees seeking info related to surveillance during the election
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:56 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:56 AM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm banking most of my hopes that he will never complete a full REM cycle ever again.
He has been having rather disturbing dreams lately.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:00 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
He has been having rather disturbing dreams lately.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:00 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Alexandra Petri's latest column is all about the surreal experience of having your satirical column treated as real news by the White House.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:00 PM on March 17, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 12:00 PM on March 17, 2017 [40 favorites]
The British government has learned that Barack Obama recently sought significant quantities of wiretapping from Trump Tower.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:01 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 12:01 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Did anyone else hear trump say "We're a very powerful company...country."?
posted by futz at 12:01 PM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by futz at 12:01 PM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
valkane: National Endowment for the Arts: The NEA will be destroyed and replaced with an armored helicopter with a shark painted on it.
Time to update the guide to identifying helicopters by paint color and insignia.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:03 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Time to update the guide to identifying helicopters by paint color and insignia.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:03 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I did hear him call America a company yes.
And jesus fucking christ, we've been "treated very badly" by the rest of the world? Is that why Americans consume something like twice as many resources as other first world countries do? What, exactly, would he think being treated right would look like? America gets everything and the rest of the world eats cold oatmeal in the dark?
posted by sotonohito at 12:04 PM on March 17, 2017 [49 favorites]
And jesus fucking christ, we've been "treated very badly" by the rest of the world? Is that why Americans consume something like twice as many resources as other first world countries do? What, exactly, would he think being treated right would look like? America gets everything and the rest of the world eats cold oatmeal in the dark?
posted by sotonohito at 12:04 PM on March 17, 2017 [49 favorites]
What, exactly, would he think being treated right would look like? America gets everything and the rest of the world eats cold oatmeal in the dark?
No one saying anything bad about us.
I mean that 100 percent literally and seriously and seriously literally and suchlike. That is all that matters to Donald Trump, that people aren't mean to him. It's all about approval.
posted by Etrigan at 12:07 PM on March 17, 2017 [49 favorites]
No one saying anything bad about us.
I mean that 100 percent literally and seriously and seriously literally and suchlike. That is all that matters to Donald Trump, that people aren't mean to him. It's all about approval.
posted by Etrigan at 12:07 PM on March 17, 2017 [49 favorites]
i'm trying to think of somebody worse to represent America on the world stage and i just can't
i mean by all accounts Ted Bundy was very charming when he wasn't murdering people
posted by murphy slaw at 12:10 PM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
i mean by all accounts Ted Bundy was very charming when he wasn't murdering people
posted by murphy slaw at 12:10 PM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
More and more it seems like the kindest and smartest thing to do with Trump is hook him up to 24/7 VR goggles where he lives in a world full of virtual people telling him how awesome he is.
posted by emjaybee at 12:10 PM on March 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 12:10 PM on March 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
Russian elite invested nearly $100 million in Trump buildings
A Reuters review has found that at least 63 individuals with Russian passports or addresses have bought at least $98.4 million worth of property in seven Trump-branded luxury towers in southern Florida, according to public documents, interviews and corporate records.
The buyers include politically connected businessmen, such as a former executive in a Moscow-based state-run construction firm that works on military and intelligence facilities, the founder of a St. Petersburg investment bank and the co-founder of a conglomerate with interests in banking, property and electronics.
posted by futz at 12:12 PM on March 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
A Reuters review has found that at least 63 individuals with Russian passports or addresses have bought at least $98.4 million worth of property in seven Trump-branded luxury towers in southern Florida, according to public documents, interviews and corporate records.
The buyers include politically connected businessmen, such as a former executive in a Moscow-based state-run construction firm that works on military and intelligence facilities, the founder of a St. Petersburg investment bank and the co-founder of a conglomerate with interests in banking, property and electronics.
posted by futz at 12:12 PM on March 17, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'm genuinely curious - with the NIH/NSF/DOE cuts, does the (R) collective think the fundamental research with no clear path to sales/profit will move to corporations, or do they see it as having zero value whatsoever?
You're thinking about this wrong. Most Republicans know perfectly well that e.g., pharma depends completely on academic research (not an exaggeration). But they also know that university employees tend to be liberal and that liberals tend to like scientific research. The point of the proposed cuts isn't to make the country better, it's to punish the left. That is literally the only thing the Trump administration and the majority of modern Republicans care about. Much as with climate change or transportation, they don't care what other consequences there might be, or are willing to suffer them later so that they can show dominance over the left now.
They're not totally stupid; they know their constituents like chest thumping and the political equivalent of dom/sub porn a hell of a lot more than they like the governmentmaking reasonable decisions based on evidence. Focusing on policy is totally beside the point.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:12 PM on March 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
You're thinking about this wrong. Most Republicans know perfectly well that e.g., pharma depends completely on academic research (not an exaggeration). But they also know that university employees tend to be liberal and that liberals tend to like scientific research. The point of the proposed cuts isn't to make the country better, it's to punish the left. That is literally the only thing the Trump administration and the majority of modern Republicans care about. Much as with climate change or transportation, they don't care what other consequences there might be, or are willing to suffer them later so that they can show dominance over the left now.
They're not totally stupid; they know their constituents like chest thumping and the political equivalent of dom/sub porn a hell of a lot more than they like the governmentmaking reasonable decisions based on evidence. Focusing on policy is totally beside the point.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:12 PM on March 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
The British government has learned that Barack Obama recently sought significant quantities of wiretapping from Trump Tower.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:01 PM on March 17
[real]? [fake]? link? WTF?
posted by yoga at 12:12 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 3:01 PM on March 17
[real]? [fake]? link? WTF?
posted by yoga at 12:12 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Switching gears, but did anyone ever update on the status of the Egg Hunt? Did they finally order the eggs in time?
posted by Mchelly at 12:13 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 12:13 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
>we've been "treated very badly" by the rest of the world?
This is central to the whole point of view from which such a creature as Trump arises, though--that the REAL problem here is reverse racism, and the REAL downtrodden minority is white men, and FINALLY somebody is going to make all those bad OTHER people stop saying those bad things about us. We ARE number one and we DON'T have small hands or small ANYTHING and YOU'LL BE SORRY YOU LAUGHED AT ME.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:13 PM on March 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
This is central to the whole point of view from which such a creature as Trump arises, though--that the REAL problem here is reverse racism, and the REAL downtrodden minority is white men, and FINALLY somebody is going to make all those bad OTHER people stop saying those bad things about us. We ARE number one and we DON'T have small hands or small ANYTHING and YOU'LL BE SORRY YOU LAUGHED AT ME.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:13 PM on March 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
More and more it seems like the kindest and smartest thing to do with Trump is hook him up to 24/7 VR goggles where he lives in a world full of virtual people telling him how awesome he is.
I'm getting pretty darn tired of living in Trump's episode of The Twilight Zone.
posted by Gelatin at 12:13 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm getting pretty darn tired of living in Trump's episode of The Twilight Zone.
posted by Gelatin at 12:13 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
The British government has learned that Barack Obama recently sought significant quantities of wiretapping from Trump Tower.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:01 PM on March 17
[real]? [fake]? link? WTF?
It's a riff on the WMD "intel" from before the Iraq War.
posted by Etrigan at 12:14 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 3:01 PM on March 17
[real]? [fake]? link? WTF?
It's a riff on the WMD "intel" from before the Iraq War.
posted by Etrigan at 12:14 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
[real]? [fake]? link? WTF?
[fake]; parody
posted by kirkaracha at 12:15 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
the whole point of view from which such a creature as Trump arises
We as a society have profoundly failed at raising emotionally competent citizens.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:16 PM on March 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
We as a society have profoundly failed at raising emotionally competent citizens.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:16 PM on March 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
Thanks for the clarification. Pardon me while I step out for some air & a reduction in heart rate.
posted by yoga at 12:16 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by yoga at 12:16 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Switching gears, but did anyone ever update on the status of the Egg Hunt? Did they finally order the eggs in time?
Well they managed to get the ticket lottery going at least. As for the eggs themselves, the same page notes:
Well they managed to get the ticket lottery going at least. As for the eggs themselves, the same page notes:
Commemorative eggs will be available for sale online later this month, and information on how to purchase will be linked on this page.posted by jedicus at 12:18 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Switching gears, but did anyone ever update on the status of the Egg Hunt? Did they finally order the eggs in time?
The Egg Roll is on! I haven't heard any specific details about the egg order, but the website says commemorative eggs will be available for sale soon.
The deadline to enter the public lottery to attend is tomorrow, should you be interested.
posted by zachlipton at 12:18 PM on March 17, 2017
The Egg Roll is on! I haven't heard any specific details about the egg order, but the website says commemorative eggs will be available for sale soon.
The deadline to enter the public lottery to attend is tomorrow, should you be interested.
posted by zachlipton at 12:18 PM on March 17, 2017
They're probably just going to use plain white and brown real eggs from Costco.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 12:20 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 12:20 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
So about that wire-tapping...
When asked on Thursday if the White House regrets accusing the UK of helping President Obama wiretap Trump Tower, Trump replied that "all we did was quote" a Fox commentator, so "you should be talking to Fox."
Fox released a statement on Friday saying that Napolitano stood by his reporting, but Fox's Shep Smith said later that "Fox News cannot confirm Judge Napolitano’s commentary."
"Fox News knows of no evidence of any kind that the now-President of the United States was surveilled at any time, any way. Full stop," Smith said.
Seems super relevant to me that Fox used literally their only guy with any credibility to make that statement.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:23 PM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
When asked on Thursday if the White House regrets accusing the UK of helping President Obama wiretap Trump Tower, Trump replied that "all we did was quote" a Fox commentator, so "you should be talking to Fox."
Fox released a statement on Friday saying that Napolitano stood by his reporting, but Fox's Shep Smith said later that "Fox News cannot confirm Judge Napolitano’s commentary."
"Fox News knows of no evidence of any kind that the now-President of the United States was surveilled at any time, any way. Full stop," Smith said.
Seems super relevant to me that Fox used literally their only guy with any credibility to make that statement.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:23 PM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
I realize it's sad and I love and prefer NEC service from Boston to NYC over air but trains are a drain on the budget for the upper middle class's benefit not the poor's.
Totally incorrect. In the Northeast Corridor you're referring to, Amtrak is actually profitable. The reason Amtrak loses so much money is that it is forced to run very long, completely unprofitable lines through very sparsely populated areas. If they actually cared about whether Amtrak turned a profit, they could do it tomorrow by eliminating all those unprofitable routes. The problem is that would affect rural train users while actually making life better for urban train users. Since Republicans care more about signaling contempt for urban areas than about policy, that is obviously an unacceptable outcome. Hence, this shit show.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:24 PM on March 17, 2017 [53 favorites]
Totally incorrect. In the Northeast Corridor you're referring to, Amtrak is actually profitable. The reason Amtrak loses so much money is that it is forced to run very long, completely unprofitable lines through very sparsely populated areas. If they actually cared about whether Amtrak turned a profit, they could do it tomorrow by eliminating all those unprofitable routes. The problem is that would affect rural train users while actually making life better for urban train users. Since Republicans care more about signaling contempt for urban areas than about policy, that is obviously an unacceptable outcome. Hence, this shit show.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:24 PM on March 17, 2017 [53 favorites]
"The White House Easter Egg Roll is a timeless White House tradition, dating back to 1878 and the presidency of President Rutherford B. Hayes. "
1878 IS A TIME!
posted by notyou at 12:24 PM on March 17, 2017 [66 favorites]
1878 IS A TIME!
posted by notyou at 12:24 PM on March 17, 2017 [66 favorites]
I'm getting pretty darn tired of living in Trump's episode of The Twilight Zone.
i mean, we are literally living in the plot from "It's A Good Life":
a man-child imbued with power far beyond his ability to comprehend or control is surrounded by people who constantly tell him how great everything is so that he doesn't get angry.
meanwhile, an impending change in the weather threatens the survival of everybody involved but no one will take any action.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:26 PM on March 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
i mean, we are literally living in the plot from "It's A Good Life":
a man-child imbued with power far beyond his ability to comprehend or control is surrounded by people who constantly tell him how great everything is so that he doesn't get angry.
meanwhile, an impending change in the weather threatens the survival of everybody involved but no one will take any action.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:26 PM on March 17, 2017 [27 favorites]
oh geez. I stopped reading too soon:
The White House Easter Egg Roll is a timeless White House tradition, dating back to 1878 and the presidency of President Rutherford B. Hayes. The President and First Lady are honored to continue the traditions of the past, while weaving new traditions into the fabric of our Nations history.
New... traditions? Oh God please no weaving of new traditions into the fabric.
posted by notyou at 12:27 PM on March 17, 2017 [36 favorites]
The White House Easter Egg Roll is a timeless White House tradition, dating back to 1878 and the presidency of President Rutherford B. Hayes. The President and First Lady are honored to continue the traditions of the past, while weaving new traditions into the fabric of our Nations history.
New... traditions? Oh God please no weaving of new traditions into the fabric.
posted by notyou at 12:27 PM on March 17, 2017 [36 favorites]
They're probably just going to use plain white and brown real eggs from Costco.
Setting the stage for the great Presidential Egging of 2017
posted by Existential Dread at 12:27 PM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
Setting the stage for the great Presidential Egging of 2017
posted by Existential Dread at 12:27 PM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
Erik Wemple: Dear Fox News et al.: How does it feel to be taken very, very seriously? In short: the conspiracy theories you cooked up before that everyone sensible ignored aren't going to fly now, because the White House might actually believe them.
President Trump may intend to hold the mainstream media accountable with his constant denunciations and invocations of “fake news.” Yet he’s much better at holding the conservative media accountable, via mere reliance on its reporting.posted by zachlipton at 12:27 PM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
Be careful about what you report, in other words. Someone at the White House might take it very seriously.
watching trump's body language with merkel is fucking amazing.
Trump has a big beef with the Germans because they are running a trade surplus to the U.S. Trump thinks it's unfair but probably has more to do with all those Mercedes and BMWs Republicans keep buying.
posted by JackFlash at 12:29 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump has a big beef with the Germans because they are running a trade surplus to the U.S. Trump thinks it's unfair but probably has more to do with all those Mercedes and BMWs Republicans keep buying.
posted by JackFlash at 12:29 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
The President and First Lady are honored to continue the traditions of the past, while weaving new traditions into the fabric of our Nation[']s history.
A mixed metaphor and a misspelling? That's it! Dr. Phineas Phage away!
posted by Existential Dread at 12:30 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
A mixed metaphor and a misspelling? That's it! Dr. Phineas Phage away!
posted by Existential Dread at 12:30 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is really bad, folks.
This is really bad.
To the principled career civil servants that manage to keep their jobs, and to our geopolitical allies in the world:
I pray that you can continue to patiently and persistently provide the political inertia, competence and moral leadership to help minimize the dangerous and destructive impulses of our current administration.
It just doesn't seem fair to keep asking you to shoulder this burden when so many of our own citizens elect incompetent and destructive leaders again and again, and the regulating influence of our own Congress seems to be hamstrung by the twin curses of greed and bigotry.
We are doing our best to do what's right - and a majority of our voters did reject the clown currently in the White House - but, well, here we are nevertheless. It is very depressing.
posted by darkstar at 12:31 PM on March 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
This is really bad.
To the principled career civil servants that manage to keep their jobs, and to our geopolitical allies in the world:
I pray that you can continue to patiently and persistently provide the political inertia, competence and moral leadership to help minimize the dangerous and destructive impulses of our current administration.
It just doesn't seem fair to keep asking you to shoulder this burden when so many of our own citizens elect incompetent and destructive leaders again and again, and the regulating influence of our own Congress seems to be hamstrung by the twin curses of greed and bigotry.
We are doing our best to do what's right - and a majority of our voters did reject the clown currently in the White House - but, well, here we are nevertheless. It is very depressing.
posted by darkstar at 12:31 PM on March 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
And jesus fucking christ, we've been "treated very badly" by the rest of the world?
Is he still mad that stopping a Nazi 70 years ago was very expensive in blood and treasure? You'd think we would have learned something, especially "don't support nazi policies."
posted by puddledork at 12:33 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is he still mad that stopping a Nazi 70 years ago was very expensive in blood and treasure? You'd think we would have learned something, especially "don't support nazi policies."
posted by puddledork at 12:33 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I let that Nation's thing slide because the report made the same mistake with "lotterys website," and maybe because it's an automated feed, the apostrophe's are getting stripped by a dumb bot.
There's no glitch in the new traditions promise, though!
posted by notyou at 12:34 PM on March 17, 2017
There's no glitch in the new traditions promise, though!
posted by notyou at 12:34 PM on March 17, 2017
Here's an essay by Robert Rector, a Heritage Foundation guy who's a big advocate for work requirements for food stamps, any kind of welfare. Even without getting into whether he's monstrous, very wrong, whether the policies he's advocating don't work, etc..., he makes a case that work requirements for Medicaid are utterly pointless:
posted by zachlipton at 12:36 PM on March 17, 2017 [46 favorites]
A work requirement would just make it less likely for able-bodied adults without dependent children, known as ABAWDs, to register for the program. The work requirement would reduce Medicaid enrollments, but Medicaid costs might well go up because the eligible ABAWDs would go to the emergency room rather than receive routine care elsewhere.This is someone who flipping loves work requirements telling Republicans they're being stupid for trying to force this.
...
The most likely outcome of an ABAWD Medicaid work program would be the following. The income eligible ABAWD would choose not to enroll in Medicaid. When he gets sick, he goes to the clinic or emergency room. The clinic or emergency room enrolls him prospectively in Medicaid and treats him. The ABAWD is then assigned to participate in workfare/job search months in the future. He never shows up. One year later he gets sick again and goes back to the clinic and the cycle starts over
posted by zachlipton at 12:36 PM on March 17, 2017 [46 favorites]
(cripes, i'd use the edit window to fix that, but it serves me right. the white house can borrow that errant apostrophe if they want.)
posted by notyou at 12:39 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by notyou at 12:39 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
via Zeke Miller: Mark Halperin and staff for his Showtime show The Circus are on board Air Force One along with Fox News' Tucker Carlson.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:41 PM on March 17, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:41 PM on March 17, 2017
(cripes, i'd use the edit window to fix that, but it serves me right. the white house can borrow that errant apostrophe if they want.)
It's good to know that we at least still have the rule of Muphry's Law, if none other.
posted by Etrigan at 12:42 PM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's good to know that we at least still have the rule of Muphry's Law, if none other.
posted by Etrigan at 12:42 PM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
This is someone who flipping loves work requirements telling Republicans they're being stupid for trying to force this.
I feel like the entire establishment right thinktankosphere right now is waving their arms and going ''GUYS, YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO TAKE US SERIOUSLY, NOT LITERALLY!!!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:42 PM on March 17, 2017 [23 favorites]
I feel like the entire establishment right thinktankosphere right now is waving their arms and going ''GUYS, YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO TAKE US SERIOUSLY, NOT LITERALLY!!!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:42 PM on March 17, 2017 [23 favorites]
So the White House has offended one of our most longstanding allies in an effort to back up a report that Fox News won't even stand behind, which was in turn part of an effort to back up Trump's tweets, which were inspired by a Breitbart article, which was written because Mark Levin said some stuff, which happened because he thought that a couple of anonymously sourced reports about FISA warrants said more than they actually did. Do I have that right? Man 2017 is stupid.
posted by zachlipton at 12:45 PM on March 17, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:45 PM on March 17, 2017 [49 favorites]
It's good to know that we at least still have the rule of Muphry's Law, if none other.
Not to mention Finagle's.
posted by Gelatin at 12:48 PM on March 17, 2017
Not to mention Finagle's.
posted by Gelatin at 12:48 PM on March 17, 2017
And jesus fucking christ, we've been "treated very badly" by the rest of the world? Is that why Americans consume something like twice as many resources as other first world countries do? What, exactly, would he think being treated right would look like? America gets everything and the rest of the world eats cold oatmeal in the dark?
Yes. This American-centric worldview is along the same lines as cis-het MRAs complaining about loss of rights or white Christians perceiving higher discrimination against themselves than any other group. It's the zero-sum worldview of privilege not recognizing itself as privilege but as normalcy. This sort of calls back to the response to that "What Liberals Want" photo of a woman wearing niqab and a drag queen sitting peacefully on a subway.
In this worldview, "America First" is an appropriate and just slogan. Limited numbers of immigrants/POC/the other are acceptable in society only if they cast off their identities and any cultural markers and adopt the mold of whiteness, and only so long as they know their place in the hierarchy. The leaders must always be the powerful, rich, white men in society, and America in the world. There's no allowance in this worldview for Black presidents, or women leaders, or immigrant achievements, or more developed and progressive nations, or any suggestion that people other than themselves have the full weight of dignity and contribution and standing equal to their own.
posted by orbit-3 at 12:49 PM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
Yes. This American-centric worldview is along the same lines as cis-het MRAs complaining about loss of rights or white Christians perceiving higher discrimination against themselves than any other group. It's the zero-sum worldview of privilege not recognizing itself as privilege but as normalcy. This sort of calls back to the response to that "What Liberals Want" photo of a woman wearing niqab and a drag queen sitting peacefully on a subway.
In this worldview, "America First" is an appropriate and just slogan. Limited numbers of immigrants/POC/the other are acceptable in society only if they cast off their identities and any cultural markers and adopt the mold of whiteness, and only so long as they know their place in the hierarchy. The leaders must always be the powerful, rich, white men in society, and America in the world. There's no allowance in this worldview for Black presidents, or women leaders, or immigrant achievements, or more developed and progressive nations, or any suggestion that people other than themselves have the full weight of dignity and contribution and standing equal to their own.
posted by orbit-3 at 12:49 PM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said that 20 years of trying to persuade North Korea to abandon its nuclear program had failed.
This is some grade-A bullshit right there. Bill Clinton had negotiated a deal with North Korea much like the Iranian deal, with a series of sticks and carrots, that effectively stopped North Korea's nuclear program. There were IAEA observers on site and continuous video surveillance of nuclear facilities to prevent cheating.
But G.W. Bush and the Republicans blew up the agreement as soon as they took office with their juvenile and deliberate "opposite of everything Clinton" international policies. First the John Fund inspired State of the Union address in which Bush branded North Korea as part of the "Axis of Evil" along with Iraq and Iran. This was followed by the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq, thereby proving to North Korea that you need nuclear weapons or else.
So North Korea kicked out the international inspectors and immediately began processing plutonium which previous had been under lock and key. Within three years they had their first nuclear test.
So Tillerson is spouting bullshit when he says that diplomacy doesn't work. It is just Republican "diplomacy" that doesn't work and you can expect the same results for Iran.
posted by JackFlash at 12:49 PM on March 17, 2017 [92 favorites]
This is some grade-A bullshit right there. Bill Clinton had negotiated a deal with North Korea much like the Iranian deal, with a series of sticks and carrots, that effectively stopped North Korea's nuclear program. There were IAEA observers on site and continuous video surveillance of nuclear facilities to prevent cheating.
But G.W. Bush and the Republicans blew up the agreement as soon as they took office with their juvenile and deliberate "opposite of everything Clinton" international policies. First the John Fund inspired State of the Union address in which Bush branded North Korea as part of the "Axis of Evil" along with Iraq and Iran. This was followed by the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq, thereby proving to North Korea that you need nuclear weapons or else.
So North Korea kicked out the international inspectors and immediately began processing plutonium which previous had been under lock and key. Within three years they had their first nuclear test.
So Tillerson is spouting bullshit when he says that diplomacy doesn't work. It is just Republican "diplomacy" that doesn't work and you can expect the same results for Iran.
posted by JackFlash at 12:49 PM on March 17, 2017 [92 favorites]
It's good to know that we at least still have the rule of Muphry's Law, if none other.
listen you aren't pinning any of this shit on me
posted by murphy slaw at 12:52 PM on March 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
listen you aren't pinning any of this shit on me
posted by murphy slaw at 12:52 PM on March 17, 2017 [32 favorites]
I guess y'all are probably savvy enough to know war with North Korea soon means war with China. Damn, friends. We tried.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:53 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 12:53 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
>So the White House has offended one of our most longstanding allies in an effort to back up a report that Fox News won't even stand behind, which was in turn part of an effort to back up Trump's tweets, which were inspired by a Breitbart article, which was written because Mark Levin said some stuff, which happened because he thought that a couple of anonymously sourced reports about FISA warrants said more than they actually did. Do I have that right? Man 2017 is stupid.
basically it's the informational equivalent of a human centipede, and the president of the united states is at the back of it.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:54 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
basically it's the informational equivalent of a human centipede, and the president of the united states is at the back of it.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:54 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's good to know that we at least still have the rule of Muphry's Law, if none other.
Not to mention Finagle's.
Muphry's Law: "If you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written."
posted by Etrigan at 12:55 PM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
Not to mention Finagle's.
Muphry's Law: "If you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written."
posted by Etrigan at 12:55 PM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
Unfortunately, Trump is not the last link in the human centipede.
We are.
posted by darkstar at 12:58 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
We are.
posted by darkstar at 12:58 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
They're probably just going to use plain white and brown real eggs from Costco.
They would dare use fake eggs!
posted by archimago at 1:01 PM on March 17, 2017
They would dare use fake eggs!
posted by archimago at 1:01 PM on March 17, 2017
The White House Easter Egg Roll is a timeless White House tradition, dating back to 1878 and the presidency of President Rutherford B. Hayes. The President and First Lady are honored to continue the traditions of the past, while weaving new traditions into the fabric of our Nations history.
My inner editor is so twitchy rn.
posted by chaoticgood at 1:02 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
My inner editor is so twitchy rn.
posted by chaoticgood at 1:02 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
>war with North Korea soon means war with China.
Bannon thinks it sounds like a good time.
So does Tillerson.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:02 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Bannon thinks it sounds like a good time.
So does Tillerson.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:02 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
i mean surely if trump puts us on an honest-to-god war footing with china, everyone who has been holding back because they're opportunistically using him to enact their dream agenda will sit up straight and let the FBI/CIA go buckwild on him, right?
right?
i picked the wrong decade to quit drinking
posted by murphy slaw at 1:03 PM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
right?
i picked the wrong decade to quit drinking
posted by murphy slaw at 1:03 PM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
i mean surely if trump puts us on an honest-to-god war footing with china, everyone who has been holding back because they're opportunistically using him to enact their dream agenda will sit up straight and let the FBI/CIA go buckwild on him, right?
That isn't how Americans respond to war presidents. You find a decent pretext, get your war on, and it's like nothing happened ever in the past. War-Trump will have more support than current Trump. We saw this already when he turned the death of a soldier into a cynical spectacle at the joint address.
posted by dis_integration at 1:06 PM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
That isn't how Americans respond to war presidents. You find a decent pretext, get your war on, and it's like nothing happened ever in the past. War-Trump will have more support than current Trump. We saw this already when he turned the death of a soldier into a cynical spectacle at the joint address.
posted by dis_integration at 1:06 PM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
In which NYT Public Editor spends her column complaining about a Sopan Deb tweet, playing into an outrage campaign from Mike Cernovich. Given the frequency with which she does this, she really seems to think the primary purpose of her job is to play Twitter police instead of, you know, reflecting on the paper's coverage.
In conclusion, Liz Spayd is the worst.
posted by zachlipton at 1:06 PM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
In conclusion, Liz Spayd is the worst.
posted by zachlipton at 1:06 PM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
So how did IJR get to be the only media outlet officially on the Korean trip with Tillerson? Well, it has a major investor who advises Pence.
posted by rewil at 1:08 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by rewil at 1:08 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
war with North Korea soon means war with China.
Actually, there are more serious immediate consequences. A strike by the United States against North Korea will mean the utter destruction of South Korea by artillery barrage, conventional missile strikes, and tactical WMD's.
I suspect Tokyo will also be hit, and I think it's likely North Korea would reserve a nuke to do that job.
War with China would commence a while later, if at all.
In the meantime, South Korea will be destroyed, and Japan decapitated. The least worst option for everybody else is global economic collapse as financial markets crash and global logistics networks freeze up. That's the best case of a US attack on North Korea.
posted by My Dad at 1:09 PM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
Actually, there are more serious immediate consequences. A strike by the United States against North Korea will mean the utter destruction of South Korea by artillery barrage, conventional missile strikes, and tactical WMD's.
I suspect Tokyo will also be hit, and I think it's likely North Korea would reserve a nuke to do that job.
War with China would commence a while later, if at all.
In the meantime, South Korea will be destroyed, and Japan decapitated. The least worst option for everybody else is global economic collapse as financial markets crash and global logistics networks freeze up. That's the best case of a US attack on North Korea.
posted by My Dad at 1:09 PM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
war with North Korea soon means war with China.
From What Trump Might Do When He Realizes He’s Losing:
From What Trump Might Do When He Realizes He’s Losing:
But Trump is too different from every other recent president for us to comfort ourselves with the thought that he’ll sputter along for four years and leave office humiliated. If Trump’s agenda collapses, particularly in the first few months of his presidency, he will cast about for scapegoats.posted by peeedro at 1:10 PM on March 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
We can hope that he lays failure at the feed[sic] of the conservatives driving the agenda, and that the GOP descends further into civil war. There remains, perhaps, a faint and receding possibility that he will try to revive his presidency by pursuing the kinds of economic-nationalist, great-man-of-history legacy projects (universal health care, infrastructure spending) that figured heavily in his campaign.
But this is most likely wishful thinking, when there is a path-of-least-resistance that would satisfy Trump’s lust to impose his will, win, and be feared. Faced with roadblocks in every direction, and loath to become another Carter, it is unnervingly plausible to imagine him turning to the military levers of power over which he exerts singular control, and unleashing hell.
If Trump goes to war with North Korea, I hope you guys shut down the country and every worker with an ounce of sense surrounds Congress in ranks a thousand deep until they enact the 25th as their last act before resigning en masse.
.
posted by Devonian at 1:11 PM on March 17, 2017 [50 favorites]
.
posted by Devonian at 1:11 PM on March 17, 2017 [50 favorites]
Can someone tell Tillerson that war with China might mean extra work? Maybe he'll just go back to sleep and everybody can forget about it.
posted by Artw at 1:14 PM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:14 PM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
In re: Tillerson's "fatigue": does anyone else have a read on whether or not this was simply a face-saving measure? Tillerson is well-known to have zero power, and I suspect Korea granted him these meetings imagining that it would be zero cost to host the SecState at the possible benefit of friendliness if his star rises. But instead, he shows up and threatens to blow off a war with PRK, at which point (I imagine) Korea shows him the door.
posted by TypographicalError at 1:14 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by TypographicalError at 1:14 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
These are elderly pro-life Catholics: single issue voters.
The fact that the party of Tim Kane and Joe Biden has not even tried to reach out to this population is just nuts. The Democrats have an airtight argument and tons of evidence that their policies lead to fewer abortions and less human suffering.
posted by schmod at 1:16 PM on March 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
The fact that the party of Tim Kane and Joe Biden has not even tried to reach out to this population is just nuts. The Democrats have an airtight argument and tons of evidence that their policies lead to fewer abortions and less human suffering.
posted by schmod at 1:16 PM on March 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
Merkel's response to Trump's wiretapping bullshit is v good
posted by peeedro at 1:20 PM on March 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 1:20 PM on March 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
i would hire a skywriter to put "WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU" over the white house every day if i thought the air force wouldn't shoot it down
posted by murphy slaw at 1:25 PM on March 17, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:25 PM on March 17, 2017 [31 favorites]
I think I am about done with this stuff where well meaning people on the left tell us that what we really have to do is "reach out" to the miners, or whatever other group of rural Republican voters are popular this news cycle.
We tried that. We've tried that for decades. And you know what we have to show for it? Nothing. Not one single thing.
We reached out, and they laughed at us for being SJW libtards.
We reached out, and they constructed an evil, hateful, fantasy world where we were evil moochers and they were the only productive people in America.
We reached out, and they voted to hurt as to the greatest extent they were able to.
So yes, fuck the miners. We've tried reaching out, it didn't work, let's stop wasting our time and effort. There's nothing to gain by reaching out.
if they want to join up with civilization and do something good for a change then I'm delighted to have them aboard. But I'm done squandering my time, empathy, and effort trying to reach them. They aren't reachable, and they vote for the most vicious, evil, racists they can find. Fuck 'em.
And this ties in with the constant refrain that what we really need is to work with the Republicans to stop Trump.
Guess what? The Republicans are totally, utterly, completely, disinterested in stopping Trump. There's no there, there. There's no one to work with.
Worse, more important, Trump is a product of the Republican party. He's not some weird evil parasite that has taken over an otherwise honorable, worthwhile, and good political party, he's just the distilled awful of a political party that has, since 1968, been nothing but evil.
Like the miners, I say fuck 'em. I won't bother reaching out to people who are just going to bite a hand extended in friendship. I value my hands too much to shove them back into the razor maw of the Republicans.
The only good Republican is an ex-Republican. If they want to quit being Republicans and join us on the side of righteousness, good, and light, then I'll welcome them. But if they want to say "oh no, I think the Republican Party is totally fine and dandy and the only problem is Trump" then they aren't really our allies even in the most brief allies of convenience sense.
Like the miners, and the other white working class scumfuckers they're just preying on our liberal sense of civilization and empathy. We'll keep, foolishly, reaching out and then acting all puzzled when we pull back a bloody stump where our hand used to be.
I'm done reaching out. There's no benefit in it, there's nothing but pain and wasted effort. Let them reach out to us for a change.
Because, seriously, just think about what happens if somehow (and it never will happen) we actually get the theoretical goal here: we get Republicans to help us impeach Trump and remove him from office.
Then we get President Pence imposing Catholic Sharia on America, appointing 3 Supreme Court Justices, and basically everything Trump has been doing except without the incoherent twitter rages and the awkward photo ops with foreign heads of state.
That isn't a win for us.
Getting rid of Trump but leaving the Republicans in charge of all three branches of government, plus a majority of states, is not a victory condition. Literally every awful thing we're seeing Trump do legislatively will continue, and probably accelerate because Pence isn't a total incompetent.
Trump isn't the enemy. The Republican Party is the enemy. All Republican politicians are the enemy. They might, if you don't pay much attention, seem somewhat better simply because they don't say the quiet parts loud, but they still say the quiet parts.
Even if reaching out worked, and it doesn't, there's no benefit to it.
posted by sotonohito at 1:26 PM on March 17, 2017 [95 favorites]
We tried that. We've tried that for decades. And you know what we have to show for it? Nothing. Not one single thing.
We reached out, and they laughed at us for being SJW libtards.
We reached out, and they constructed an evil, hateful, fantasy world where we were evil moochers and they were the only productive people in America.
We reached out, and they voted to hurt as to the greatest extent they were able to.
So yes, fuck the miners. We've tried reaching out, it didn't work, let's stop wasting our time and effort. There's nothing to gain by reaching out.
if they want to join up with civilization and do something good for a change then I'm delighted to have them aboard. But I'm done squandering my time, empathy, and effort trying to reach them. They aren't reachable, and they vote for the most vicious, evil, racists they can find. Fuck 'em.
And this ties in with the constant refrain that what we really need is to work with the Republicans to stop Trump.
Guess what? The Republicans are totally, utterly, completely, disinterested in stopping Trump. There's no there, there. There's no one to work with.
Worse, more important, Trump is a product of the Republican party. He's not some weird evil parasite that has taken over an otherwise honorable, worthwhile, and good political party, he's just the distilled awful of a political party that has, since 1968, been nothing but evil.
Like the miners, I say fuck 'em. I won't bother reaching out to people who are just going to bite a hand extended in friendship. I value my hands too much to shove them back into the razor maw of the Republicans.
The only good Republican is an ex-Republican. If they want to quit being Republicans and join us on the side of righteousness, good, and light, then I'll welcome them. But if they want to say "oh no, I think the Republican Party is totally fine and dandy and the only problem is Trump" then they aren't really our allies even in the most brief allies of convenience sense.
Like the miners, and the other white working class scumfuckers they're just preying on our liberal sense of civilization and empathy. We'll keep, foolishly, reaching out and then acting all puzzled when we pull back a bloody stump where our hand used to be.
I'm done reaching out. There's no benefit in it, there's nothing but pain and wasted effort. Let them reach out to us for a change.
Because, seriously, just think about what happens if somehow (and it never will happen) we actually get the theoretical goal here: we get Republicans to help us impeach Trump and remove him from office.
Then we get President Pence imposing Catholic Sharia on America, appointing 3 Supreme Court Justices, and basically everything Trump has been doing except without the incoherent twitter rages and the awkward photo ops with foreign heads of state.
That isn't a win for us.
Getting rid of Trump but leaving the Republicans in charge of all three branches of government, plus a majority of states, is not a victory condition. Literally every awful thing we're seeing Trump do legislatively will continue, and probably accelerate because Pence isn't a total incompetent.
Trump isn't the enemy. The Republican Party is the enemy. All Republican politicians are the enemy. They might, if you don't pay much attention, seem somewhat better simply because they don't say the quiet parts loud, but they still say the quiet parts.
Even if reaching out worked, and it doesn't, there's no benefit to it.
posted by sotonohito at 1:26 PM on March 17, 2017 [95 favorites]
The Democrats have an airtight argument and tons of evidence that their policies lead to fewer abortions and less human suffering.
Yeah but actual Catholic priests have done shit like this.
And to be fair, most Catholics where I live (and there are a lot) are Democrats. Our mayor is a progressive Catholic Democrat with a vowel at the end of his name. But the abortion issue has been so callously used to manipulate the electorate, it doens't matter how much evidence you have. All someone has to do is scream "BUT THE DEAD BABIES!!!!" You can't bring facts to a feelings fight.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:27 PM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yeah but actual Catholic priests have done shit like this.
And to be fair, most Catholics where I live (and there are a lot) are Democrats. Our mayor is a progressive Catholic Democrat with a vowel at the end of his name. But the abortion issue has been so callously used to manipulate the electorate, it doens't matter how much evidence you have. All someone has to do is scream "BUT THE DEAD BABIES!!!!" You can't bring facts to a feelings fight.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:27 PM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Australia, Mexico, Sweden, Britain, Germany. Who needs enemies when you can get into fights with allies.
posted by chris24 at 1:30 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 1:30 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Who needs enemies when you can get into fights with allies.
They're ideal sparring partners for when you want to look big and tough but not risk starting a war.
posted by contraption at 1:31 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
They're ideal sparring partners for when you want to look big and tough but not risk starting a war.
posted by contraption at 1:31 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Leader of the Free World: Polandball Edition.
posted by Justinian at 1:32 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 1:32 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
> a polite way of not having meetings that will necessarily go badly, given his comments.
But then why send him at all? Surely the insult of the Secretary of State hiding in his hotel room during an official visit is diplomatically worse than him simply being too "busy" to come....
Anyway, it's not only Korea he's blown off this trip; he also blew off US Diplomatic staff in Japan. So, just to review the highlights of T.Rex's Asia tour so far:
On Thursday in Tokyo, "Tillerson did not go to the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo to meet staff Thursday morning, as is often customary. He instead stayed in his hotel" [WaPo].
Then on Friday in Korea, "his meetings with [Foreign Minister] Yun and [acting President and Prime Minister] Hwang were each confined to about an hour, without a lunch or dinner gathering. Seoul officials said the US side opted not to have a meal together, citing the secretary’s 'fatigue.'" [Korea Herald].
And to add to that, "Tillerson made an unusual and perhaps unprecedented decision to travel without a complement of State Department reporters on this first extensive solo trip.... Tillerson’s deliberate choice means that seasoned American diplomatic reporters cannot cover all of his engagements" [WaPo], so who knows what he's actually doing over there.
All in all, it's almost like this administration has no clue whatsoever how to do their jobs. What's the worst that can happen?
posted by Westringia F. at 1:33 PM on March 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
But then why send him at all? Surely the insult of the Secretary of State hiding in his hotel room during an official visit is diplomatically worse than him simply being too "busy" to come....
Anyway, it's not only Korea he's blown off this trip; he also blew off US Diplomatic staff in Japan. So, just to review the highlights of T.Rex's Asia tour so far:
On Thursday in Tokyo, "Tillerson did not go to the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo to meet staff Thursday morning, as is often customary. He instead stayed in his hotel" [WaPo].
Then on Friday in Korea, "his meetings with [Foreign Minister] Yun and [acting President and Prime Minister] Hwang were each confined to about an hour, without a lunch or dinner gathering. Seoul officials said the US side opted not to have a meal together, citing the secretary’s 'fatigue.'" [Korea Herald].
And to add to that, "Tillerson made an unusual and perhaps unprecedented decision to travel without a complement of State Department reporters on this first extensive solo trip.... Tillerson’s deliberate choice means that seasoned American diplomatic reporters cannot cover all of his engagements" [WaPo], so who knows what he's actually doing over there.
All in all, it's almost like this administration has no clue whatsoever how to do their jobs. What's the worst that can happen?
posted by Westringia F. at 1:33 PM on March 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
> VA Secretary David Shulkin: [nodding head awkwardly, eyes closed] *silence*
Here's one blessing the vast majority of us can count in these trying times; we don't have to deal with Donald Trump in person.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:35 PM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
Here's one blessing the vast majority of us can count in these trying times; we don't have to deal with Donald Trump in person.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:35 PM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
Time for some long reads about the security of the Mercer legacy.
WaPo: The Mercers and Stephen Bannon: How a populist power base was funded and built
New Yorker: The Reclusive Hedge-Fund Tycoon Behind The Trump Presidency, featuring some of Mercer's beliefs:
WaPo: The Mercers and Stephen Bannon: How a populist power base was funded and built
New Yorker: The Reclusive Hedge-Fund Tycoon Behind The Trump Presidency, featuring some of Mercer's beliefs:
Patterson also recalled Mercer arguing that, during the Gulf War, the U.S. should simply have taken Iraq’s oil, “since it was there.” Trump, too, has said that the U.S. should have “kept the oil.” Expropriating another country’s natural resources is a violation of international law. Another onetime senior employee at Renaissance recalls hearing Mercer downplay the dangers posed by nuclear war. Mercer, speaking of the atomic bombs that the U.S. dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, argued that, outside of the immediate blast zones, the radiation actually made Japanese citizens healthier. The National Academy of Sciences has found no evidence to support this notion. Nevertheless, according to the onetime employee, Mercer, who is a proponent of nuclear power, “was very excited about the idea, and felt that it meant nuclear accidents weren’t such a big deal.”posted by zachlipton at 1:36 PM on March 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
Mercer strongly supported the nomination of Jeff Sessions to be Trump’s Attorney General. Many civil-rights groups opposed the nomination, pointing out that Sessions has in the past expressed racist views. Mercer, for his part, has argued that the Civil Rights Act, in 1964, was a major mistake. According to the onetime Renaissance employee, Mercer has asserted repeatedly that African-Americans were better off economically before the civil-rights movement. (Few scholars agree.) He has also said that the problem of racism in America is exaggerated. The source said that, not long ago, he heard Mercer proclaim that there are no white racists in America today, only black racists. (Mercer, meanwhile, has supported a super pac, Black Americans for a Better Future, whose goal is to “get more Blacks involved in the Republican Party.”)
schmod The fact that the party of Tim Kane and Joe Biden has not even tried to reach out to this population is just nuts. The Democrats have an airtight argument and tons of evidence that their policies lead to fewer abortions and less human suffering.
And here's a great example of the futility of "reaching out".
Democrats have been trying to reach out to the so forced birth faction of Catholics forever. And it has never worked because they aren't interested in reducing abortions.
That's not their goal.
Their goal is a moral victory, not a practical victory. They flatly do not care if their policies produce more abortions, that's not the point. The point is to have the government align itself with their moral convictions and declare abortion to be illegal. If that results in fewer abortions that's nice, but it isn't the goal. The goal is simply to have their morality enacted by the government, to feel that on this issue the government is on their side and against the baby killers. If that policy produces more abortions they won't care in the slightest, because reducing the number of abortions isn't their goal.
We saw this with Obama, he reached out to the forced birth faction of American Catholics when he attempted to appoint Alexia Kelley executive director of Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good, to head the Center for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships at the Department of Health and Human Services. And the forced birth Catholics told him to fuck off and die and voted for Trump in droves.
I remember that Obama was so devoted this pathetic, failed, reaching out policy that even after the forced birth scum murdered Dr. Tiller he still kept his offer of a position to Kelley open. Basically he declared that he was so devoted to reaching out that the forced birthers could murder us, and he'd still offer them positions of power in his administration. That's about as devoted a "reaching out" to the forced birth Catholic voters as you can possibly get.
And what did it get him?
Answer: Jack fucking shit.
So let's not bother pretending that there's anything to be gained from "reaching out", k? We tried it, it didn't work, let's move on to other tactics.
posted by sotonohito at 1:42 PM on March 17, 2017 [119 favorites]
And here's a great example of the futility of "reaching out".
Democrats have been trying to reach out to the so forced birth faction of Catholics forever. And it has never worked because they aren't interested in reducing abortions.
That's not their goal.
Their goal is a moral victory, not a practical victory. They flatly do not care if their policies produce more abortions, that's not the point. The point is to have the government align itself with their moral convictions and declare abortion to be illegal. If that results in fewer abortions that's nice, but it isn't the goal. The goal is simply to have their morality enacted by the government, to feel that on this issue the government is on their side and against the baby killers. If that policy produces more abortions they won't care in the slightest, because reducing the number of abortions isn't their goal.
We saw this with Obama, he reached out to the forced birth faction of American Catholics when he attempted to appoint Alexia Kelley executive director of Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good, to head the Center for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships at the Department of Health and Human Services. And the forced birth Catholics told him to fuck off and die and voted for Trump in droves.
I remember that Obama was so devoted this pathetic, failed, reaching out policy that even after the forced birth scum murdered Dr. Tiller he still kept his offer of a position to Kelley open. Basically he declared that he was so devoted to reaching out that the forced birthers could murder us, and he'd still offer them positions of power in his administration. That's about as devoted a "reaching out" to the forced birth Catholic voters as you can possibly get.
And what did it get him?
Answer: Jack fucking shit.
So let's not bother pretending that there's anything to be gained from "reaching out", k? We tried it, it didn't work, let's move on to other tactics.
posted by sotonohito at 1:42 PM on March 17, 2017 [119 favorites]
Oh, and the hilarious[?] thing about Tillerson traveling without a press pool? It provides the North Korean people a powerful example of political transparency and freedom of the press... in the form of a DPRK soldier taking a closeup of Tillerson.
posted by Westringia F. at 1:45 PM on March 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Westringia F. at 1:45 PM on March 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
More and more it seems like the kindest and smartest thing to do with Trump is hook him up to 24/7 VR goggles where he lives in a world full of virtual people telling him how awesome he is.
I am reading Emotional Vampires right now and holy shit does Trump fit the example of the Narcissistic Superstar. If I ever finish typing up the notes from reading this I should post them or something.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:45 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
I am reading Emotional Vampires right now and holy shit does Trump fit the example of the Narcissistic Superstar. If I ever finish typing up the notes from reading this I should post them or something.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:45 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Even if reaching out worked, and it doesn't, there's no benefit to it.
This may be true if you only care about domestic policy. But Mike Pence is a lot less likely to start a global war.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:47 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
This may be true if you only care about domestic policy. But Mike Pence is a lot less likely to start a global war.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:47 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
These are elderly pro-life Catholics: single issue voters.
The fact that the party of Tim Kane and Joe Biden has not even tried to reach out to this population is just nuts.
In the sense that yes they have, repeatedly? Yes, it is nuts to assert that is a fact.
Aside from all of what sotonohito says, the reality is that a sizable section of that cohort is simply never going to sign on to a plan that still, in the end, allows abortions. Whether there would be a tenfold decrease is irrelevant. A compromise that still allows one would be unacceptable to them. You may make your own decisions about whether this represents moral conviction or madness, but it's a firmly held position by many.
posted by phearlez at 1:47 PM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
The fact that the party of Tim Kane and Joe Biden has not even tried to reach out to this population is just nuts.
In the sense that yes they have, repeatedly? Yes, it is nuts to assert that is a fact.
Aside from all of what sotonohito says, the reality is that a sizable section of that cohort is simply never going to sign on to a plan that still, in the end, allows abortions. Whether there would be a tenfold decrease is irrelevant. A compromise that still allows one would be unacceptable to them. You may make your own decisions about whether this represents moral conviction or madness, but it's a firmly held position by many.
posted by phearlez at 1:47 PM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
The fact that the party of Tim Kane and Joe Biden has not even tried to reach out to this population is just nuts. The Democrats have an airtight argument and tons of evidence that their policies lead to fewer abortions and less human suffering.
We have tried to reach out - repeatedly. Single issue anti abortion Catholics aren't going to discuss this in good faith, it's very emotional to them. They have a picture in their heads of the Gerber baby being born to an unwed teenage mother who stoically gives the baby up for adoption to a devout infertile couple. They refuse to acknowledge the actual reality of conception due to lack of bc access, rape, bad luck or anything else that isn't the result of a slutty girl who couldn't keep her legs closed.
In a nutshell, you can't argue logic with these people.
posted by hollygoheavy at 1:50 PM on March 17, 2017 [43 favorites]
We have tried to reach out - repeatedly. Single issue anti abortion Catholics aren't going to discuss this in good faith, it's very emotional to them. They have a picture in their heads of the Gerber baby being born to an unwed teenage mother who stoically gives the baby up for adoption to a devout infertile couple. They refuse to acknowledge the actual reality of conception due to lack of bc access, rape, bad luck or anything else that isn't the result of a slutty girl who couldn't keep her legs closed.
In a nutshell, you can't argue logic with these people.
posted by hollygoheavy at 1:50 PM on March 17, 2017 [43 favorites]
may make your own decisions about whether this represents moral conviction or madness, but it's a firmly held position by many.
It comes back to what sonohito said -- they don't care if abortions stop, they care that abortions are illegal. Just like how the War On Drugs will never ever ever stop people from doing drugs but the "law and order" types don't give a shit as long as they can keep throwing people (preferably poor minority people) in jail.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:53 PM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
It comes back to what sonohito said -- they don't care if abortions stop, they care that abortions are illegal. Just like how the War On Drugs will never ever ever stop people from doing drugs but the "law and order" types don't give a shit as long as they can keep throwing people (preferably poor minority people) in jail.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:53 PM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
I know several pro-life Catholics who are "whole life" pro-life meaning they're willing to vote for pro-choice candidates who enact values such as caring for the sick and destitute and eliminating the death penalty and mass incarceration, because they understand that you can't always get what you want and it's better to reduce all the things you consider evil than to hold out and let all the evil happen in the hopes that one day that one thing you consider evil among all the other twenty things will be eliminated completely. They already vote Democrat.
But the people who are super emotionally attached to the idea in their head of cute perfect miniature-6-month-old-looking fetuses being thrown in the trash aren't ever going to be wooed here. At least, not wooed by any force outside themselves having a moment of clarity and taking a good long hard look on their own. (Which does happen, but not because Joe Biden said any magic words.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:57 PM on March 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
But the people who are super emotionally attached to the idea in their head of cute perfect miniature-6-month-old-looking fetuses being thrown in the trash aren't ever going to be wooed here. At least, not wooed by any force outside themselves having a moment of clarity and taking a good long hard look on their own. (Which does happen, but not because Joe Biden said any magic words.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:57 PM on March 17, 2017 [24 favorites]
If Trump’s agenda collapses, particularly in the first few months of his presidency, he will cast about for scapegoats.
The interesting thing is that Trump hasn't mentioned Korea at all in the last 48 hours (while Tillerson has made some pretty wild comments).
Like some MRM / red pill types I know from Facebook, Trump instead appears to be obsessed with humiliating a strong woman, Angela Merkel.
posted by My Dad at 1:59 PM on March 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
The interesting thing is that Trump hasn't mentioned Korea at all in the last 48 hours (while Tillerson has made some pretty wild comments).
Like some MRM / red pill types I know from Facebook, Trump instead appears to be obsessed with humiliating a strong woman, Angela Merkel.
posted by My Dad at 1:59 PM on March 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
If Trump goes to war with North Korea
Fun fact: we're technically sort of still at war with North Korea since the fighting was ended "until a final peaceful settlement is achieved" by an armistice and there's never been a formal peace treaty ending the war. "North Korea has announced that it will no longer abide by the armistice at least 6 times, in the years 1994, 1996, 2003, 2006, 2009, and 2013."
posted by kirkaracha at 2:07 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Actual footage of Angela Merkel after Trump didn't want to shake her hand. [fake, probably real]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:13 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:13 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just today, I was reading the comments on a Forgotten Weapons YouTube video (there are some obvious 4chan idiots down there, but usually the commenters are just knowledgeable or curious people who want to talk about cool guns). On every video of a rifle with a pistol grip, though, somebody will show up to make a joke about how it's an "assault weapon" because apparently they haven't got the memo that it's no longer 1994.
I bring it up because somewhere in the chain of responses was a guy who talked about how much he loves guns and thinks it's ridiculous that certain guns have onerous requirements for expensive tax stamps based on random design elements, etc., etc. But he thinks there needs to be a middle ground because it's equally ridiculous for convicted felons to be able to go to any old gun shop and walk out with a handgun the very same day.
Needless to say, this guy was flooded with comments calling him a "libt**d" and worse because he dared to suggest that maybe there are some extremely minor exceptions to the right to bear arms.
I bring it up because that's the level of absolutist dogma we're talking about with certain single-issue voters. No matter how much couching of your language you do or how much you're willing to negotiate down, they simply will. not. budge.
Now, all that being said... There are people in the rust belt who aren't self-destructive fucking idiots. There are people in the South who aren't self-destructive fucking idiots. There are, actually, quite a few of them. Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio are all purple states still. North Carolina is purple. Goddamned Georgia is in the process of turning purple.
Forget about winning over the single-issue assholes, definitely. But also throw a lifeline to the people who are already out there who are on our side or genuinely on the fence (not Ken Bone making-a-big-show-of-being-on-the-fence-when-you're-not). Not only is it the right thing to do, but it'll actually pay off in the end. That's what the 50 State Strategy was about. Every state has people who want to move the country in the right direction, but they can't do that if our political institutions on the left are all saying, "Meh, fuck 'em, that's what they get for living outside of California and Massachusetts."
posted by tobascodagama at 2:18 PM on March 17, 2017 [45 favorites]
I bring it up because somewhere in the chain of responses was a guy who talked about how much he loves guns and thinks it's ridiculous that certain guns have onerous requirements for expensive tax stamps based on random design elements, etc., etc. But he thinks there needs to be a middle ground because it's equally ridiculous for convicted felons to be able to go to any old gun shop and walk out with a handgun the very same day.
Needless to say, this guy was flooded with comments calling him a "libt**d" and worse because he dared to suggest that maybe there are some extremely minor exceptions to the right to bear arms.
I bring it up because that's the level of absolutist dogma we're talking about with certain single-issue voters. No matter how much couching of your language you do or how much you're willing to negotiate down, they simply will. not. budge.
Now, all that being said... There are people in the rust belt who aren't self-destructive fucking idiots. There are people in the South who aren't self-destructive fucking idiots. There are, actually, quite a few of them. Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio are all purple states still. North Carolina is purple. Goddamned Georgia is in the process of turning purple.
Forget about winning over the single-issue assholes, definitely. But also throw a lifeline to the people who are already out there who are on our side or genuinely on the fence (not Ken Bone making-a-big-show-of-being-on-the-fence-when-you're-not). Not only is it the right thing to do, but it'll actually pay off in the end. That's what the 50 State Strategy was about. Every state has people who want to move the country in the right direction, but they can't do that if our political institutions on the left are all saying, "Meh, fuck 'em, that's what they get for living outside of California and Massachusetts."
posted by tobascodagama at 2:18 PM on March 17, 2017 [45 favorites]
Like, I definitely think the guy who runs this Facebook page deserves some consideration here.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:20 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 2:20 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
> The interesting thing is that Trump hasn't mentioned Korea at all in the last 48 hours
Not so. Just this morning he tweeted:
posted by Westringia F. at 2:21 PM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
Not so. Just this morning he tweeted:
@realDonaldTrump: North Korea is behaving very badly. They have been "playing" the United States for years. China has done little to help!Note that China is Tillerson's next stop on his Asian Hotel Tour.
posted by Westringia F. at 2:21 PM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
In conclusion, Liz Spayd is the worst.
Now I know that's right.
posted by petebest at 2:31 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Now I know that's right.
posted by petebest at 2:31 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump Hires Giuliani
Not Rude. Junior Rude.
Giuliani, 31, will work in the Office of Public Liaison and Intergovernmental Affairs, Politico reported.
Among Giuliani’s new responsibilities, Politico reported, is helping to organize the Super Bowl champion New England Patriots' upcoming visit to the White House.
Bonus points for the shady picture.
posted by petebest at 2:40 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not Rude. Junior Rude.
Giuliani, 31, will work in the Office of Public Liaison and Intergovernmental Affairs, Politico reported.
Among Giuliani’s new responsibilities, Politico reported, is helping to organize the Super Bowl champion New England Patriots' upcoming visit to the White House.
Bonus points for the shady picture.
posted by petebest at 2:40 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I love that when I walk around there are people from all over the world. The restaurants we have here that cater to students serve cuisines from all over the world.
Me too. One of the things that make living in dark red Texas territory bearable is the major university close by and the cultural effects of that. I can get way more varied food choices and have friends from far off places, etc. Coming from Houston I often forget to appreciate the diversity there is here, but the thought that this town could be made so much whiter in the coming years is chilling.
posted by threeturtles at 3:00 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Me too. One of the things that make living in dark red Texas territory bearable is the major university close by and the cultural effects of that. I can get way more varied food choices and have friends from far off places, etc. Coming from Houston I often forget to appreciate the diversity there is here, but the thought that this town could be made so much whiter in the coming years is chilling.
posted by threeturtles at 3:00 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Just saw a 4 hour old clip of Jake Tapper and Bernie Sanders. Bernie called Trump's lies, "lies", and clearly said that he lies all the time.
LAST TIME I CHECKED, those lies are in violation of 18 USC 1001(a)(2). Hey noted Racist and Perjurer Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, III, how's that prosecution shaping up? I hear that Preet Bharara is open for a Special Prosecutor gig...
posted by mikelieman at 3:08 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
LAST TIME I CHECKED, those lies are in violation of 18 USC 1001(a)(2). Hey noted Racist and Perjurer Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, III, how's that prosecution shaping up? I hear that Preet Bharara is open for a Special Prosecutor gig...
posted by mikelieman at 3:08 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump administration rolls back protections for people in default on student loans
It's like they pick the most unpopular policies imaginable and say "yeah, let's do that thing."
posted by zachlipton at 3:29 PM on March 17, 2017 [39 favorites]
It's like they pick the most unpopular policies imaginable and say "yeah, let's do that thing."
posted by zachlipton at 3:29 PM on March 17, 2017 [39 favorites]
Mike Huckabee on Twitter: Poop Dogg has nephew named Bow Wow; both bad dogs who advocate murder and sex slavery for @POTUS and First Lady;Who let the dogs out?
WTF.
posted by porn in the woods at 3:34 PM on March 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
WTF.
posted by porn in the woods at 3:34 PM on March 17, 2017 [26 favorites]
It's like they pick the most unpopular policies imaginable and say "yeah, let's do that thing."
If I could only draw, Comrade Trump, Secret Accelerationist, would be hitting the stands about now in the other timeline, where the idea of this is all just a hilarious gag about how terrible he could be if he was trying.
posted by corb at 3:35 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
If I could only draw, Comrade Trump, Secret Accelerationist, would be hitting the stands about now in the other timeline, where the idea of this is all just a hilarious gag about how terrible he could be if he was trying.
posted by corb at 3:35 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
State department denies Tillerson was suffering from fatigue, saying no meal with South Korean leaders had been scheduled
posted by PenDevil at 3:36 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 3:36 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
WTF.
Your scheduled reminder that Mike Huckabee's son tortured a dog to death.
posted by PenDevil at 3:38 PM on March 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
Your scheduled reminder that Mike Huckabee's son tortured a dog to death.
posted by PenDevil at 3:38 PM on March 17, 2017 [42 favorites]
You know, if he brought press along on the trip, there'd be a pre-existing public schedule he could just point to.
posted by zachlipton at 3:40 PM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:40 PM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Uncanny Similarities Between The Trump Administration and Arrested Development.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:49 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:49 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
>Your scheduled reminder that Mike Huckabee's son tortured a dog to death.
Well...I somehow did not know that before now, but...yep, that's a thing that happened.
Sorry, but some of these folks truly are deplorable.
posted by mosk at 3:50 PM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
Well...I somehow did not know that before now, but...yep, that's a thing that happened.
Sorry, but some of these folks truly are deplorable.
posted by mosk at 3:50 PM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
That actually seriously affects my thoughts about Huckabee. If your son does something so monstrous, it's time to retire from politics, because clearly you need to be spending more time at home.
posted by corb at 3:58 PM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by corb at 3:58 PM on March 17, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yeah but he's still biffies with Josh Duggar, so I think his personal moral compass might be miscalibrated.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:10 PM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:10 PM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
Of Course White Nationalist Richard Spencer Gets Millions in Federal Subsidies for His Family’s Cotton Farm in Louisiana
The Spencers have received payments from two federal farm programs. One is the commodity subsidy program, intended to guarantee income for farmers who are helping to maintain supplies of certain crops deemed important by the government. The other is the conservation reserve program, which pays farmers for environmentally sound farming practices. Most of the $2 million paid to the Spencers has been in commodity subsidy payments for growing cotton.
posted by futz at 4:12 PM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
The Spencers have received payments from two federal farm programs. One is the commodity subsidy program, intended to guarantee income for farmers who are helping to maintain supplies of certain crops deemed important by the government. The other is the conservation reserve program, which pays farmers for environmentally sound farming practices. Most of the $2 million paid to the Spencers has been in commodity subsidy payments for growing cotton.
posted by futz at 4:12 PM on March 17, 2017 [25 favorites]
State department denies Tillerson was suffering from fatigue, saying no meal with South Korean leaders had been scheduled
Also there are no State department employees to schedule the meal and the State department no longer exists and now North Korea thinks we're crazy.
posted by srboisvert at 4:12 PM on March 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
Also there are no State department employees to schedule the meal and the State department no longer exists and now North Korea thinks we're crazy.
posted by srboisvert at 4:12 PM on March 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
If anyone has access to any of Donald Trump's other tax returns, please microwave them to me.
posted by lalochezia at 4:14 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 4:14 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
WaPo: How cartoonists are skewering the fight over the GOP’s health-care plan
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:16 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:16 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
From Balloon Juice, here's a way to handle Fox News for your older relatives.
...our family, alarmed by our grandma’s transformation from a conservative but kindly old lady into a rage-filled Fox bot, secretly activated the parental controls on her TV and blocked Fox News. In a matter of days, she turned back into a kindly old wingnut and now dotes on Animal Planet.
I wish I had thought of this when my mum was alive. She was a lifelong Democrat and never wavered, but she'd watch Fox constantly in her last years and would get insanely worried about the oddest things.
posted by honestcoyote at 4:21 PM on March 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
...our family, alarmed by our grandma’s transformation from a conservative but kindly old lady into a rage-filled Fox bot, secretly activated the parental controls on her TV and blocked Fox News. In a matter of days, she turned back into a kindly old wingnut and now dotes on Animal Planet.
I wish I had thought of this when my mum was alive. She was a lifelong Democrat and never wavered, but she'd watch Fox constantly in her last years and would get insanely worried about the oddest things.
posted by honestcoyote at 4:21 PM on March 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
secretly activated the parental controls on her TV and blocked Fox News
So what is the equivalent for Facebook? My dad doesn't watch TV news, but I see the same transformation by way of memes shared by his proudly ignorant good ol' boy friends. From old style (still bad, but not bonkers) conservative beliefs into crazy conspiracy theory paranoia in a matter of a few years.
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:27 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
So what is the equivalent for Facebook? My dad doesn't watch TV news, but I see the same transformation by way of memes shared by his proudly ignorant good ol' boy friends. From old style (still bad, but not bonkers) conservative beliefs into crazy conspiracy theory paranoia in a matter of a few years.
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:27 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Blow It All Up Billionaires a surprisingly thorough and interesting huffpo piece on the Mercers. Including an other perspective on Cambridge Analytics. And a tired and worn Bannon?!
posted by mumimor at 4:37 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 4:37 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
downtohisturtles: > secretly activated the parental controls on her TV and blocked Fox News
So what is the equivalent for Facebook?
If you have their password and access to their device(s), maybe this?
But yeah, that's a big IF.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:42 PM on March 17, 2017
So what is the equivalent for Facebook?
If you have their password and access to their device(s), maybe this?
But yeah, that's a big IF.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:42 PM on March 17, 2017
This is a rather wild statement by Rep. Aderholt. He says he'll support the AHCA after he talked to Trump about how people won't be able to afford premiums and the President said "These are my people and I will not let them down. We will fix this for them." He also quotes Trump as saying he supports the House bill "one thousand percent."
posted by zachlipton at 4:49 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:49 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
So what is the equivalent for Facebook?
Social Fixer has filter subscriptions for politics & football. FB Purity has something similar but much more effort involved for you & more chance of stories slipping through.
posted by scalefree at 4:50 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Social Fixer has filter subscriptions for politics & football. FB Purity has something similar but much more effort involved for you & more chance of stories slipping through.
posted by scalefree at 4:50 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Commenter on that Balloon Juice post has an interesting observation:
Now that soap operas in English are going away I think Fox fills the gap; there are heroes, villains, and an ongoing storyline
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:56 PM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
Now that soap operas in English are going away I think Fox fills the gap; there are heroes, villains, and an ongoing storyline
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:56 PM on March 17, 2017 [20 favorites]
Now that soap operas in English are going away I think Fox fills the gap; there are heroes, villains, and an ongoing storyline
Get 'em hooked on Hulu; Dark Shadows is on there and it's ten times more factual than Fox & Friends.
posted by valkane at 5:05 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
Get 'em hooked on Hulu; Dark Shadows is on there and it's ten times more factual than Fox & Friends.
posted by valkane at 5:05 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
CNN: Trump administration ramps up efforts to block media
In the latest incident, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson invited Fox News to cover his meeting at the Korean Demilitarized Zone, on the North-South Korea border, but denied access to the press pool that provides all media outlets with an account of the secretary's activities.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:09 PM on March 17, 2017 [29 favorites]
"Fox unilateral network team was allowed into this meeting -- pool asked for access and was blocked," wrote CNN's Pamela Boykoff, the author of Friday's pool report. "Local embassy official told the pool it was 'the Secretary's decision.'"
New Yorker: The reclusive hedge-fund tycoon behind the Trump presidency. How Robert Mercer exploited America’s populist insurgency. It references the following op-ed.
Philadelphia Inquirer: When a hedge fund billionaire 'buys' democracy: Magerman on Mercer (Magerman's boss' boss at Renaissance Technologies Corp is Mercer.)
Philadelphia Inquirer: When a hedge fund billionaire 'buys' democracy: Magerman on Mercer (Magerman's boss' boss at Renaissance Technologies Corp is Mercer.)
Donors to a variety of causes, political, religious and social, do not think of their donations as gifts, with no strings attached, but investments that carry the entitlement to influence decision-making, hiring, and mission.posted by ZeusHumms at 5:14 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
...
When communal organizations, or governments, allow their donors to subvert their missions, they inevitably betray their missions, as our government is betraying us now.
"Fox unilateral network team was allowed into this meeting -- pool asked for access and was blocked," wrote CNN's Pamela Boykoff, the author of Friday's pool report. "Local embassy official told the pool it was 'the Secretary's decision.'"
They're really missing the reality TV philosophy here; they should make Tillerson have Andrea Mitchell follow him around everywhere, that would be ratings GOLD!
posted by valkane at 5:18 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
They're really missing the reality TV philosophy here; they should make Tillerson have Andrea Mitchell follow him around everywhere, that would be ratings GOLD!
posted by valkane at 5:18 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Franken meets Somali girl caught up in travel ban: US Sen. Al Franken has met with a young Somali girl whose reunion with her mother was delayed by President Donald Trump's travel ban on immigrants from seven countries.
Mushkaad Abdi, 4, had been separated from her mother and older sisters since she was just a few months old She finally got a visa to come to the United States, but President Trump signed the executive order barring citizens of seven countries, including Somalia, from entering the country, before she could rejoin her family in Minnesota.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:38 PM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
Mushkaad Abdi, 4, had been separated from her mother and older sisters since she was just a few months old She finally got a visa to come to the United States, but President Trump signed the executive order barring citizens of seven countries, including Somalia, from entering the country, before she could rejoin her family in Minnesota.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:38 PM on March 17, 2017 [22 favorites]
Egg says he may challenge Hatch or Chaffetz in 2018 (from his Reddit AMA)
posted by zakur at 5:45 PM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zakur at 5:45 PM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
sotonohito, I favorited both of your recent posts so hard I may have broken my mouse.
I live in the south and have been reaching out my entire life. As a journalist I was forced to not react to the dumb racist shit people would say to me because I'm a white male. I have many republican "friends" who after a beer or two will let the n-word slip or will use all of the dog-whistle terms to describe POC and their "plights." Time and again I try to reason with them and they laugh at me because I'm the token liberal who just doesn't understand how the world works.
You can't reason with them. You have to treat them as the toxic people they are and move on. Reaching out and trying to understand the other side has gotten us nowhere. Fuck'em.
posted by photoslob at 5:51 PM on March 17, 2017 [57 favorites]
I live in the south and have been reaching out my entire life. As a journalist I was forced to not react to the dumb racist shit people would say to me because I'm a white male. I have many republican "friends" who after a beer or two will let the n-word slip or will use all of the dog-whistle terms to describe POC and their "plights." Time and again I try to reason with them and they laugh at me because I'm the token liberal who just doesn't understand how the world works.
You can't reason with them. You have to treat them as the toxic people they are and move on. Reaching out and trying to understand the other side has gotten us nowhere. Fuck'em.
posted by photoslob at 5:51 PM on March 17, 2017 [57 favorites]
Aw, Egg. Godspeed. I really hope there once again comes a day where I can dislike Republican congresspeople with a normal level of liberal disdain, rather than the all hands on deck panic freakout hatred-is-too-mild-a-word-for-it that I'm working with right now. Like, I would not piss on Chaffetz if he was on fire, but I would at least turn the nearest spigot on for Egg.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:55 PM on March 17, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:55 PM on March 17, 2017 [38 favorites]
From Rise Stronger: Ten things every American can do to save our healthcare.
Facebook link: The Undecided Ten. Is your congressperson on the list?
posted by SyraCarol at 5:56 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Facebook link: The Undecided Ten. Is your congressperson on the list?
posted by SyraCarol at 5:56 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Add his own DOJ to the list of people saying Trump's full of shit.
Sources: DOJ report does not confirm Trump's wiretap claim
Sources: DOJ report does not confirm Trump's wiretap claim
Two government officials told CNN Friday evening that the classified report the Justice Department delivered to House and Senate investigators does not confirm President Donald Trump's allegations that President Barack Obama wiretapped him during the campaign.posted by chris24 at 6:00 PM on March 17, 2017 [9 favorites]
The sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, spoke with knowledge of the classified report's contents.
When asked if the DOJ's documents would confirm Trump's as of yet wholly unsubstantiated allegations, House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes told CNN, "I don't think so" as he walked into a room to read the report.
Ranking member Rep. Adam Schiff, a California Democrat, said he was "absolutely confident" the DOJ report would not back up Trump's allegation.
"There's really no question about this. The president's statements before, and his tweets since leading right up today, have no basis in fact," Schiff told CNN.
Has this been posted? I searched and came up with zilch.
Steve Bannon in College: Grateful Dead Fan, ‘Jerry Brown Liberal,’ ‘Ladies Man’
posted by futz at 6:00 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Steve Bannon in College: Grateful Dead Fan, ‘Jerry Brown Liberal,’ ‘Ladies Man’
posted by futz at 6:00 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
WaPo: Whom to trust when it comes to health-care reform? Trump supporters put their faith in him.
It's why I've fallen into the "don't waste your time trying to convince hardcore Trumpists" camp. They are beyond reach. A lost demographic.
posted by Justinian at 6:08 PM on March 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
NASHVILLE — Soon after Charla McComic’s son lost his job, his health-insurance premium dropped from $567 per month to just $88, a “blessing from God” that she believes was made possible by President Trump.You know, just know that she would reject as fake news any attempt to show her that Trumpcare isn't actually a think yet and that it is Obamacare which is her "blessing from God".
“I think it was just because of the tax credit,” said McComic, 52, a former first-grade teacher who traveled to Trump’s Wednesday night rally in Nashville from Lexington, Tenn., with her daughter, mother, aunt and cousin.
It's why I've fallen into the "don't waste your time trying to convince hardcore Trumpists" camp. They are beyond reach. A lost demographic.
posted by Justinian at 6:08 PM on March 17, 2017 [28 favorites]
I'd like to know how many man-hours will be spent chasing after trumps bullshit, and what is the total cost of these investigations. Publish it. It's like there's no accountability for this man's nonsense. And here we are now this dumbfuck country chasing our tail for no reason
I seriously cannot wrap my mind around how moronic all of this has become.
posted by angrybear at 6:08 PM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
I seriously cannot wrap my mind around how moronic all of this has become.
posted by angrybear at 6:08 PM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's all about ME.
White House-GCHQ row reveals a leader willing to alienate allies to save face.
posted by adamvasco at 6:10 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
White House-GCHQ row reveals a leader willing to alienate allies to save face.
posted by adamvasco at 6:10 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
>a leader willing to alienate allies to save face.
Except that it only makes him look like more of a floundering jackass, so it can't really be called 'saving face'.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:13 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Except that it only makes him look like more of a floundering jackass, so it can't really be called 'saving face'.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:13 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mr. Dicks Out For Deep State, @20committee, implies Trump could end up like Allende.
If Trump Tower truly wasn't surveilled, that sorta implies the spooks didn't really think Trump was colluding with Putin, doesn't it?
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 6:15 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
If Trump Tower truly wasn't surveilled, that sorta implies the spooks didn't really think Trump was colluding with Putin, doesn't it?
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 6:15 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mr. Dicks Out For Deep State, @20committee, implies Trump could end up like Allende.
If Trump Tower truly wasn't surveilled, that sorta implies the spooks didn't really think Trump was colluding with Putin, doesn't it?
Translation please?
posted by futz at 6:25 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
If Trump Tower truly wasn't surveilled, that sorta implies the spooks didn't really think Trump was colluding with Putin, doesn't it?
Translation please?
posted by futz at 6:25 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Steve Bannon in College: Grateful Dead Fan, ‘Jerry Brown Liberal,’ ‘Ladies Man’
Alcohol is a helluva drug.
posted by petebest at 6:38 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Alcohol is a helluva drug.
posted by petebest at 6:38 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
"LAT: Trolling the Tweeter in Chief: California congressman stands up to Trump, using the president's favorite weapon
“Michelle Obama had that beautiful line, ‘When they go low, we go high,’” said Lieu. “I thought about it a lot. But I also thought, ‘We lost the election.’ My view now is that when they go low, we fight back.”
“Dear @steveKingIA: You know what makes America great?” Lieu tweeted. “You get to make obscene comments and I get to call you a stark, raving racist.”"
Neat fact: Ted Lieu is the guy who was behind SB 1172, which banned (most) conversion therapy in California. He's a good one.
posted by klangklangston at 6:39 PM on March 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
“Michelle Obama had that beautiful line, ‘When they go low, we go high,’” said Lieu. “I thought about it a lot. But I also thought, ‘We lost the election.’ My view now is that when they go low, we fight back.”
“Dear @steveKingIA: You know what makes America great?” Lieu tweeted. “You get to make obscene comments and I get to call you a stark, raving racist.”"
Neat fact: Ted Lieu is the guy who was behind SB 1172, which banned (most) conversion therapy in California. He's a good one.
posted by klangklangston at 6:39 PM on March 17, 2017 [41 favorites]
implies Trump could end up like Allende.
Dude, Trump's biggest fans idolize Pinochet. If anything, Hillary was our Allende. There's something insulting about comparing Trump to Allende in any respect other than them both being (biological) human beings. Even that's a pretty tough pill to swallow.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:42 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Dude, Trump's biggest fans idolize Pinochet. If anything, Hillary was our Allende. There's something insulting about comparing Trump to Allende in any respect other than them both being (biological) human beings. Even that's a pretty tough pill to swallow.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:42 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
From Kevin Drum at his blog on Mother Jones, "Beware the Trump Wiretap Rabbit Hole":
posted by mhum at 6:42 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Bottom line: Trump is talking about the FBI's brief investigation of a server in Trump Tower that communicated with a Russian bank. He read about it in Breitbart News the day before his tweet. That's it. He has no evidence that Obama had anything to do with it; that it involved any surveillance of him personally; or, for that matter, that it involved any actual surveillance at all. Just a Breitbart piece based on a Mark Levin harangue based on a British story based on "two separate sources with links to the counter-intelligence community" that has never been confirmed by any of the legions of extremely sharp national security reporters based in the United States.It's not 100% definitive but the case he lays out for this conclusion is based on pretty strong circumstantial evidence (imho) and is basically the Occam's Razor explanation for Trump's tweet.
posted by mhum at 6:42 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
If Trump Tower truly wasn't surveilled, that sorta implies the spooks didn't really think Trump was colluding with Putin, doesn't it?
You don't need to bug the Trump tower. You just need to bug the Russian phones that Trump's people are talking to. The first is illegal without a warrant. The second is legal without a warrant. The communications of Americans in direct contact with foreign targets can be collected without a warrant. The president may use warrantless wiretapping if it relates to protecting the country against a potential grave attack, sabotage or espionage as long as the primary target is not a U.S. citizen. In this case, hypothetically the target is the Russian interference in the election. Trump's people are incidental. Sucks to be them.
posted by JackFlash at 6:45 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
You don't need to bug the Trump tower. You just need to bug the Russian phones that Trump's people are talking to. The first is illegal without a warrant. The second is legal without a warrant. The communications of Americans in direct contact with foreign targets can be collected without a warrant. The president may use warrantless wiretapping if it relates to protecting the country against a potential grave attack, sabotage or espionage as long as the primary target is not a U.S. citizen. In this case, hypothetically the target is the Russian interference in the election. Trump's people are incidental. Sucks to be them.
posted by JackFlash at 6:45 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Nearly Half of US States Want Tax Returns Public for 2020 Election
posted by futz at 6:59 PM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by futz at 6:59 PM on March 17, 2017 [15 favorites]
So, uh, that "major meeting" about the VA that was supposed to be happening at Mar-a-Lago without the VA Secretary? Now it's not happening. Wonder if they realized how terrible this morning's video looked.
posted by zachlipton at 7:02 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:02 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's not like all communications in and out of both campaigns weren't logged, recorded, transcribed, and scrutinized. They have bots for that. Whatever is/was going on is known, there should be no doubt.
Is it releasable? Legal? Mmmm - maybe yes, maybe no. But that it is SOP - c'mon.
posted by petebest at 7:03 PM on March 17, 2017
Is it releasable? Legal? Mmmm - maybe yes, maybe no. But that it is SOP - c'mon.
posted by petebest at 7:03 PM on March 17, 2017
> State department denies Tillerson was suffering from fatigue, saying no meal with South Korean leaders had been scheduled
So we're expected to believe that the top diplomat of the most powerful nation in the world and a key ally against their unhinged neighbor to the north came to visit, and Korea didn't invite him to dinner?
posted by Westringia F. at 7:07 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
So we're expected to believe that the top diplomat of the most powerful nation in the world and a key ally against their unhinged neighbor to the north came to visit, and Korea didn't invite him to dinner?
posted by Westringia F. at 7:07 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, to be fair S. Korea has a lot going on right now.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:09 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:09 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
So we're expected to believe that the top diplomat of the most powerful nation in the world and a key ally against their unhinged neighbor to the north comes to visit, and Korea doesn't invite him to dinner?
They were just thinking pizza and a movie and T. Rex is all "Rrraaaarrgh! F33r my tiny tiny arms and Volkswagen-crushing bite!" and they were all Ooooookaaaaayyyy . . .
posted by petebest at 7:13 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
They were just thinking pizza and a movie and T. Rex is all "Rrraaaarrgh! F33r my tiny tiny arms and Volkswagen-crushing bite!" and they were all Ooooookaaaaayyyy . . .
posted by petebest at 7:13 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
What if they threw a dinner party and nobody came?
posted by uosuaq at 7:15 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by uosuaq at 7:15 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
My toddler currently spends most of his waking hours pretending to be a T Rex. Please don't ruin that for me.
posted by medusa at 7:22 PM on March 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by medusa at 7:22 PM on March 17, 2017 [21 favorites]
Translation please?
"John Schindler" owns and operates the @20committee Twitter account, where he describes himself as "Formerly NSA, NAVSECGRU, NWC" and holds himself out as familiar with and knowledgeable about the United States Government's intelligence community. He is also noted for having sent a photograph of his penis to another Twitter user which became public under circumstances I have but cursorily investigated. Be careful if you do, the Gawker article contains the image in question! I find him a comical and vile buffoon but as far as I am aware the basic facts of his biography seem legitimate. In recent times he often discusses the intelligence community's adversarial relationship with the current president, heartily siding against Trump.
Salvador Allende was an elected leftist ruler of Chile. The CIA heavily supported the coup which overthrew and killed him, installing the murderous dictator Pinochet.
Dude, Trump's biggest fans idolize Pinochet. If anything, Hillary was our Allende. There's something insulting about comparing Trump to Allende
My fear is that the next one actually does make Trump seem like an Allende relative to a Pinochet. One thing I have learned from history about times of political ruction is that it is not always the first guy that is the problem - like Hitler was the first guy to overthrow Weimar, and he in fact was the problem, having tremendous & horrible effect on the world. But often the first individual or group cannot consolidate their power, and there is a goddamn shitshow, the 2nd and 3rd and 4th guys are worse, and everybody dies.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:25 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
"John Schindler" owns and operates the @20committee Twitter account, where he describes himself as "Formerly NSA, NAVSECGRU, NWC" and holds himself out as familiar with and knowledgeable about the United States Government's intelligence community. He is also noted for having sent a photograph of his penis to another Twitter user which became public under circumstances I have but cursorily investigated. Be careful if you do, the Gawker article contains the image in question! I find him a comical and vile buffoon but as far as I am aware the basic facts of his biography seem legitimate. In recent times he often discusses the intelligence community's adversarial relationship with the current president, heartily siding against Trump.
Salvador Allende was an elected leftist ruler of Chile. The CIA heavily supported the coup which overthrew and killed him, installing the murderous dictator Pinochet.
Dude, Trump's biggest fans idolize Pinochet. If anything, Hillary was our Allende. There's something insulting about comparing Trump to Allende
My fear is that the next one actually does make Trump seem like an Allende relative to a Pinochet. One thing I have learned from history about times of political ruction is that it is not always the first guy that is the problem - like Hitler was the first guy to overthrow Weimar, and he in fact was the problem, having tremendous & horrible effect on the world. But often the first individual or group cannot consolidate their power, and there is a goddamn shitshow, the 2nd and 3rd and 4th guys are worse, and everybody dies.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:25 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Former Trump campaign chief Paul Manafort wanted for questioning in Ukraine corruption case
-- Prosecutors in Kiev said they have made seven separate appeals over the past two years for help in questioning President Donald Trump's former campaign manager, including letters to FBI Director James Comey and US Justice Department officials. Ukrainian officials said the US has not responded to those requests.
-- US authorities confirmed to CNN that the requests were received but declined further comment.
-- The official requests from a special prosecution unit in Kiev started in December 2014, and involve a corruption case targeting Ukraine's former Justice Minister Oleksandr Lavrynovych.
So Ukrainian officials have been asking for access to Manafort since 2014. There is quite a bit of info in the article that paints a tangled web of connections between a shady US law firm, mysterious cash payment, Manafort, plus more alleged shenanigans. Crazy. Not looking good for Manafort. SAD!
posted by futz at 7:25 PM on March 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
-- Prosecutors in Kiev said they have made seven separate appeals over the past two years for help in questioning President Donald Trump's former campaign manager, including letters to FBI Director James Comey and US Justice Department officials. Ukrainian officials said the US has not responded to those requests.
-- US authorities confirmed to CNN that the requests were received but declined further comment.
-- The official requests from a special prosecution unit in Kiev started in December 2014, and involve a corruption case targeting Ukraine's former Justice Minister Oleksandr Lavrynovych.
So Ukrainian officials have been asking for access to Manafort since 2014. There is quite a bit of info in the article that paints a tangled web of connections between a shady US law firm, mysterious cash payment, Manafort, plus more alleged shenanigans. Crazy. Not looking good for Manafort. SAD!
posted by futz at 7:25 PM on March 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
So there's a new story about the Alfa Bank thing out, and I held off on posting it here because it's kind of weird and stupid and rather poorly written, but then I realized I don't exactly have a coherent set of editorial standards anyway, so why not? Russian bank claims effort to frame it for connections to Trump Organization
Alfa Bank is now, months and months after the initial reports about the communications, saying that people in this February and March are spoofing traffic to make it look like the Alfa server is communicating with a Trump Organization server.
Ok, so not really that weird, and it doesn't explain anything about what was going on last year, which is the relevant bit. Just some folks playing around on the internet. But it's odd that they went so far out of their way to make this a public thing right now, and that they didn't mention this last week when they were pressed on what's going on.
posted by zachlipton at 7:29 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Alfa Bank is now, months and months after the initial reports about the communications, saying that people in this February and March are spoofing traffic to make it look like the Alfa server is communicating with a Trump Organization server.
Ok, so not really that weird, and it doesn't explain anything about what was going on last year, which is the relevant bit. Just some folks playing around on the internet. But it's odd that they went so far out of their way to make this a public thing right now, and that they didn't mention this last week when they were pressed on what's going on.
posted by zachlipton at 7:29 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Ukrainian officials said the US has not responded to those requests.
Look nobody knows where the guy is, okay? We're not his mom. Sheesh. Did you check down at Darby's? . . . Yeah, well then we don't know what to tell you.
posted by petebest at 7:31 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Look nobody knows where the guy is, okay? We're not his mom. Sheesh. Did you check down at Darby's? . . . Yeah, well then we don't know what to tell you.
posted by petebest at 7:31 PM on March 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's not 100% definitive but the case he lays out for this conclusion is based on pretty strong circumstantial evidence (imho) and is basically the Occam's Razor explanation for Trump's tweet.
Yes, I've been sort of surprised at the media buying into this whole stupid shaggy dog story about "well, I read in the NY Times about X, and then a guy on Fox said Y" when it was reported in several reputable outlets immediately after the wiretap tweets that White House people had been circulating copies of the Breitbart story a day or two before that Saturday and said clearly that Trump was reacting to that. I'm not sure why the headline hasn't consistently been "President makes crazy unsubstantiated accusations based on rant-icle on far-right white-supremacist hate site, WH officials say" all along. Congress may have to pretend to take this bullshit seriously, but the press doesn't.
But instead, MSNBC has a lovely interview with the head Breitbart dick this morning so he can talk about how unfairly misunderstood his totally mainstream site is, boo hoo.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:47 PM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
Yes, I've been sort of surprised at the media buying into this whole stupid shaggy dog story about "well, I read in the NY Times about X, and then a guy on Fox said Y" when it was reported in several reputable outlets immediately after the wiretap tweets that White House people had been circulating copies of the Breitbart story a day or two before that Saturday and said clearly that Trump was reacting to that. I'm not sure why the headline hasn't consistently been "President makes crazy unsubstantiated accusations based on rant-icle on far-right white-supremacist hate site, WH officials say" all along. Congress may have to pretend to take this bullshit seriously, but the press doesn't.
But instead, MSNBC has a lovely interview with the head Breitbart dick this morning so he can talk about how unfairly misunderstood his totally mainstream site is, boo hoo.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:47 PM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
My toddler currently spends most of his waking hours pretending to be a T Rex.
And the toddler-in-chief currently spends most of his waking hours pretending to be a president.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:49 PM on March 17, 2017 [11 favorites]
Forget about winning over the single-issue assholes, definitely. But also throw a lifeline to the people who are already out there who are on our side or genuinely on the fence (not Ken Bone making-a-big-show-of-being-on-the-fence-when-you're-not). Not only is it the right thing to do, but it'll actually pay off in the end. That's what the 50 State Strategy was about. Every state has people who want to move the country in the right direction, but they can't do that if our political institutions on the left are all saying, "Meh, fuck 'em, that's what they get for living outside of California and Massachusetts."
hi.
posted by sciatrix at 7:52 PM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
hi.
posted by sciatrix at 7:52 PM on March 17, 2017 [16 favorites]
It's the same White House that just thought an Alexandra Petri column that ended with "RAW POWER! HARD RAW POWER GRRRRRR HISSS POW! It will be great" was serious praise of the President's budget. Their ability to read, assess, and disseminate accurate information is piss poor, and I see no reason why that doesn't apply equally to articles about wiretapping or satire.
posted by zachlipton at 7:53 PM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:53 PM on March 17, 2017 [17 favorites]
Alfa Bank continues to investigate who is "behind this elaborate hoax."
Alfa Bank hired U.S. cybersecurity firm Mandiant to look into the matter, and it ended up with a "working hypothesis" that Trump Hotels sent over marketing emails, annoying spam that set off the bank's computer network defenses, which in turn caused these DNS lookups. The results were inconclusive. Investigators couldn't find a single marketing email sent that summer.
One source with direct knowledge noted importantly that Mandiant was only given the ability to perform "a narrow search."
Because of that, the mystery continues.
*raises hand*
It was sending mail to Trump's org that the cash payments had been directed into their accounts as agreed in Ukraine? In exchange for changing the party's position on assistance to Ukraine? It satisfies both the evidence and Trump's Razor.
posted by petebest at 7:57 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Alfa Bank hired U.S. cybersecurity firm Mandiant to look into the matter, and it ended up with a "working hypothesis" that Trump Hotels sent over marketing emails, annoying spam that set off the bank's computer network defenses, which in turn caused these DNS lookups. The results were inconclusive. Investigators couldn't find a single marketing email sent that summer.
One source with direct knowledge noted importantly that Mandiant was only given the ability to perform "a narrow search."
Because of that, the mystery continues.
*raises hand*
It was sending mail to Trump's org that the cash payments had been directed into their accounts as agreed in Ukraine? In exchange for changing the party's position on assistance to Ukraine? It satisfies both the evidence and Trump's Razor.
posted by petebest at 7:57 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
"My toddler currently spends most of his waking hours pretending to be a T Rex."
And the toddler-in-chief currently spends most of his waking hours pretending to be a president.
Be on the lookout for a Freaky Friday situation.
I know that it doesn't really make sense, but neither does the actual current situation.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:04 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
And the toddler-in-chief currently spends most of his waking hours pretending to be a president.
Be on the lookout for a Freaky Friday situation.
I know that it doesn't really make sense, but neither does the actual current situation.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:04 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Korea didn't invite him to dinner?
TBF, they were used to Netflix-and-chilling with Kerry and the thought of that with Tillerson put them off their feed.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:19 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
TBF, they were used to Netflix-and-chilling with Kerry and the thought of that with Tillerson put them off their feed.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:19 PM on March 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Tillerson's most honest moniker is Wayne Tracker. That is the name that he uses when expressing his true thoughts.
posted by futz at 8:30 PM on March 17, 2017
posted by futz at 8:30 PM on March 17, 2017
Fuck Ralph Nader. Fuck him. Fuck him. Fuck him.
posted by Talez at 8:33 PM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:33 PM on March 17, 2017 [7 favorites]
So... why go?
posted by Artw at 8:45 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:45 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
Fuck Ralph Nader.
Why the fuck is he still being treated as a politician?
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:47 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why the fuck is he still being treated as a politician?
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:47 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why the fuck is he still being treated as a politician?
That could be said about so many people. Including the President.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:49 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
That could be said about so many people. Including the President.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:49 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
>Steve Bannon in College: Grateful Dead Fan, ‘Jerry Brown Liberal,’ ‘Ladies Man’
I...can't...even. I have a hard enough time reconciling that Anne Coulter has apparently been a fan of the band for a long time. I'm gonna leave it at "fan" rather than Deadhead.
According to the article, Steve Bannon was...probably an even more dedicated fan than Coulter. One who went so far as to commandeer the college radio station late one night to publicly mourn the death of Arnold J. Toynbee, a British political theorist and a personal idol of his (aside - Toynbee infamously met with Hitler in Berlin in 1936. In their meeting Hitler emphasized his limited expansionist aim of building a greater German nation, and his desire for British understanding and cooperation. Toynbee believed that Hitler was sincere and endorsed Hitler's message in a confidential memorandum for the British prime minister and foreign secretary. So...although a fierce intellectual, Toynbee was apparently not so good at reading people).
The song Bannon played to commemorate Toynbee was a Phil Lesh/Bobby Peterson composition, "Unbroken Chain" (lyrics).
This post is already too long for its minor point, so I'll spare you some of the more arcane background of this song, but this song probably contains the Dead's most pro-LGBT lyric - "They say love your brother/But you catch it when you try" - which was pretty progressive for mainstream rock and roll in 1974. I cannot explain Bannon's attraction to this song nor grok his belief that this would be a good sing to use to commemorate Toynbee. I'm pretty sure that no one in the Trump administration currently shares this song's point of view.
posted by mosk at 9:02 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I...can't...even. I have a hard enough time reconciling that Anne Coulter has apparently been a fan of the band for a long time. I'm gonna leave it at "fan" rather than Deadhead.
According to the article, Steve Bannon was...probably an even more dedicated fan than Coulter. One who went so far as to commandeer the college radio station late one night to publicly mourn the death of Arnold J. Toynbee, a British political theorist and a personal idol of his (aside - Toynbee infamously met with Hitler in Berlin in 1936. In their meeting Hitler emphasized his limited expansionist aim of building a greater German nation, and his desire for British understanding and cooperation. Toynbee believed that Hitler was sincere and endorsed Hitler's message in a confidential memorandum for the British prime minister and foreign secretary. So...although a fierce intellectual, Toynbee was apparently not so good at reading people).
The song Bannon played to commemorate Toynbee was a Phil Lesh/Bobby Peterson composition, "Unbroken Chain" (lyrics).
This post is already too long for its minor point, so I'll spare you some of the more arcane background of this song, but this song probably contains the Dead's most pro-LGBT lyric - "They say love your brother/But you catch it when you try" - which was pretty progressive for mainstream rock and roll in 1974. I cannot explain Bannon's attraction to this song nor grok his belief that this would be a good sing to use to commemorate Toynbee. I'm pretty sure that no one in the Trump administration currently shares this song's point of view.
posted by mosk at 9:02 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hillary Clinton says she’s ‘ready to come out of the woods’
SCRANTON, Pa. — Hillary Clinton said Friday she’s “ready to come out of the woods” and help Americans find common ground.
Clinton’s gradual return to the public spotlight following her presidential election loss continued with a St. Patrick’s Day speech in her late father’s Pennsylvania hometown of Scranton.
“I’m like a lot of my friends right now, I have a hard time watching the news,” Clinton told an Irish women’s group.
posted by futz at 9:06 PM on March 17, 2017 [40 favorites]
SCRANTON, Pa. — Hillary Clinton said Friday she’s “ready to come out of the woods” and help Americans find common ground.
Clinton’s gradual return to the public spotlight following her presidential election loss continued with a St. Patrick’s Day speech in her late father’s Pennsylvania hometown of Scranton.
“I’m like a lot of my friends right now, I have a hard time watching the news,” Clinton told an Irish women’s group.
posted by futz at 9:06 PM on March 17, 2017 [40 favorites]
Alfa Bank is now, months and months after the initial reports about the communications, saying that people in this February and March are spoofing traffic to make it look like the Alfa server is communicating with a Trump Organization server.
IIRC, Paul Vixie had commented at the time on this. If he thought there was smoke, there's fire.
>Steve Bannon in College: Grateful Dead Fan
I'm listening to the Cap Center St. Pat's 91 show right now, and I'm reminded of a phrase one of my dearly departed friends used to say, and in this context, Dead Shows are a Microcosm.
"Life's a Party!"
And his point was that sometimes, you don't have fun at the party.
And in this instance, even assholes show up at the party sometimes.
posted by mikelieman at 9:07 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
IIRC, Paul Vixie had commented at the time on this. If he thought there was smoke, there's fire.
>Steve Bannon in College: Grateful Dead Fan
I'm listening to the Cap Center St. Pat's 91 show right now, and I'm reminded of a phrase one of my dearly departed friends used to say, and in this context, Dead Shows are a Microcosm.
"Life's a Party!"
And his point was that sometimes, you don't have fun at the party.
And in this instance, even assholes show up at the party sometimes.
posted by mikelieman at 9:07 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
and sometimes, that party is the Nazi Party.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:09 PM on March 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:09 PM on March 17, 2017 [18 favorites]
You know, just know that she would reject as fake news any attempt to show her that Trumpcare isn't actually a think yet and that it is Obamacare which is her "blessing from God".
It's why I've fallen into the "don't waste your time trying to convince hardcore Trumpists" camp. They are beyond reach. A lost demographic.
The other tell is the frequent claim made that Trump actions are OK because "Obama did them too". It's hard to think of a way to more clearly illustrate that their reasons for disliking Obama were not based in policy.
posted by jaduncan at 9:17 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's why I've fallen into the "don't waste your time trying to convince hardcore Trumpists" camp. They are beyond reach. A lost demographic.
The other tell is the frequent claim made that Trump actions are OK because "Obama did them too". It's hard to think of a way to more clearly illustrate that their reasons for disliking Obama were not based in policy.
posted by jaduncan at 9:17 PM on March 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Steve Bannon story gets weirder.
In the 90s, he was in charge of Biosphere 2.
posted by MrVisible at 9:54 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
In the 90s, he was in charge of Biosphere 2.
posted by MrVisible at 9:54 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
And Biosphere 2 went so well...
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:03 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:03 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
So the 9th Circuit decided to spend its night fighting amongst itself, and it's really not pretty. We have a fairly strong dissent from Judge Kozinski, who pretty much says that whatever Candidate Trump said doesn't matter, so let's just ignore the fact that he called for a Muslim Ban.
Then Judge Reinhardt adds this paragraph in response to his concurrence:
Then Judge Reinhardt adds this paragraph in response to his concurrence:
Judge Kozinski’s diatribe, filed today, confirms that a small group of judges, having failed in their effort to undo this court’s decision with respect to President Trump’s first Executive Order, now seek on their own, under the guise of a dissent from the denial of en banc rehearing of an order of voluntary dismissal, to decide the constitutionality of a second Executive Order that is not before this court. That is hardly the way the judiciary functions. Peculiar indeed!posted by zachlipton at 10:12 PM on March 17, 2017 [34 favorites]
Steve Bannon: worse than Pauly Shore
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:22 PM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:22 PM on March 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
Peculiar indeed!
I feel like this is supposed to be an ornate synonym for something
posted by J.K. Seazer at 10:24 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
I feel like this is supposed to be an ornate synonym for something
posted by J.K. Seazer at 10:24 PM on March 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
I...can't...even. I have a hard enough time reconciling that Anne Coulter has apparently been a fan of the band for a long time.
Have you seriously never known a d-bag Deadhead? I've met a few with massive collections of tapes and tour stories galore and giant bags of weed in their kitchen cabinets who were still greedy, unprincipled jerks. This doesn't seem terribly outlandish to me.
posted by Miko at 10:43 PM on March 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
Have you seriously never known a d-bag Deadhead? I've met a few with massive collections of tapes and tour stories galore and giant bags of weed in their kitchen cabinets who were still greedy, unprincipled jerks. This doesn't seem terribly outlandish to me.
posted by Miko at 10:43 PM on March 17, 2017 [30 favorites]
Nothing wrong with what Nader said in that interview. We all get the spoiler role he played way back when, but his comments today seem standard issue. We all basically agree!
The turn around on the potential Trump Tower surveillance is a red herring. The question isn't whether the IC listened in on foreign agents calling Trump. Trump said Obama ordered the surveillance. The difference is significant, and Trumpco is betting on us all thinking all politicians are as venal and corrupt as he is to get through this.
posted by notyou at 10:50 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
The turn around on the potential Trump Tower surveillance is a red herring. The question isn't whether the IC listened in on foreign agents calling Trump. Trump said Obama ordered the surveillance. The difference is significant, and Trumpco is betting on us all thinking all politicians are as venal and corrupt as he is to get through this.
posted by notyou at 10:50 PM on March 17, 2017 [6 favorites]
>Have you seriously never known a d-bag Deadhead?
Of course, and you're right. Sorry for the pearl clutching.
Surprised to learn he was the CEO of Biosphere II when the folks from Biosphere I broke in, and all that drama unfolded. His Super Villain resume is thorough, even if he didn't always get top marks.
posted by mosk at 11:04 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Of course, and you're right. Sorry for the pearl clutching.
Surprised to learn he was the CEO of Biosphere II when the folks from Biosphere I broke in, and all that drama unfolded. His Super Villain resume is thorough, even if he didn't always get top marks.
posted by mosk at 11:04 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Uh, "we." We would stone Him. You and I here on Metafilter. They and them on wherever. We all would.
Whatever. Did you all catch anem0ne's comments above on the situation in Korea? There's a bit more at work than our fixation on Trump and T. Rex, and it's helpful to see some context.
posted by notyou at 12:08 AM on March 18, 2017
Whatever. Did you all catch anem0ne's comments above on the situation in Korea? There's a bit more at work than our fixation on Trump and T. Rex, and it's helpful to see some context.
posted by notyou at 12:08 AM on March 18, 2017
NYT: Fox’s Andrew Napolitano Stirred the Pot for Trump’s British Tempest. It seems Napolitano, "who prefers being addressed as “The Judge” and once insisted that Fox News install bookshelves and wood-paneling in his newsroom office, the better to resemble a judge’s chambers," got (as one of his sources) the idea that Obama used British intelligence to spy on Trump from "Larry C. Johnson, a former intelligence officer best known for spreading a hoax about Michelle Obama." Johnson is also responsible for this spectacular failure of a NYT op-ed entitled "The Declining Terrorist Threat", published in July 2001.
In other news, Africa Trade Meeting Has No Africans After US Visa Denials. USC hosts the African Global Economic and Development Summit. Normally around 40% of their African attendees can't come because they are denied visas. This year, 100% were denied visas.
posted by zachlipton at 12:58 AM on March 18, 2017 [36 favorites]
In other news, Africa Trade Meeting Has No Africans After US Visa Denials. USC hosts the African Global Economic and Development Summit. Normally around 40% of their African attendees can't come because they are denied visas. This year, 100% were denied visas.
posted by zachlipton at 12:58 AM on March 18, 2017 [36 favorites]
got (as one of his sources) the idea that Obama used British intelligence to spy on Trump from "Larry C. Johnson, a former intelligence officer best known for spreading a hoax about Michelle Obama."
It is idiots all the way down. Fractal levels of garbage generated by bullshitters too incompetent to even bullshit believably.
posted by jaduncan at 3:05 AM on March 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
It is idiots all the way down. Fractal levels of garbage generated by bullshitters too incompetent to even bullshit believably.
posted by jaduncan at 3:05 AM on March 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
So a hoaxer passes some hearsay to a 9/11 truther who repeats it unvetted on his talk show on a propaganda channel and our conspiracy theorist president listens to it instead of the most advanced IC in history and rather than admit a mistake he starts international incidents with two allies and then it really escalates and that is how the world ended.
posted by chris24 at 3:34 AM on March 18, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 3:34 AM on March 18, 2017 [50 favorites]
I used to be kind of incredulous that millions went to war because someone shot an Archduke. Now it's like, well yeah, at least that's a better reason for war than anything involving fourth-hand rumors spread through Fox News.
posted by zachlipton at 3:48 AM on March 18, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:48 AM on March 18, 2017 [39 favorites]
UIC Investigates Anti-Semitic 'Jewish Privilege' Flyers Posted On Campus
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:07 AM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:07 AM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
tobascodagama Forget about winning over the single-issue assholes, definitely. But also throw a lifeline to the people who are already out there who are on our side or genuinely on the fence (not Ken Bone making-a-big-show-of-being-on-the-fence-when-you're-not). Not only is it the right thing to do, but it'll actually pay off in the end. That's what the 50 State Strategy was about.
Absolutely. Speaking here as a Texan Democrat I absolutely do not think the right approach is to simply write off various states and retreat into a handful of liberal states.
But that's a very different thing from the whole reaching out handwringing I'm seeing a lot of both here and elsewhere. It looks like a lot of people seem to imagine that the Democrats have basically been just ignoring huge portions of America, especially that oh-so-special "white working class" part of America when the truth is that the Democrats have been chasing that vote as hard as they can for my entire life.
And they aren't getting it.
So redirect elsewhere. Yes, keep the door open. If a former Trumper wants to give up their support for the Republicans and become a Democrat I'll welcome them with open arms. But I'm no longer interested in wasting resources trying to get racist old white hicks to vote Democratic. They won't so let's not bother trying too hard there.
posted by sotonohito at 4:18 AM on March 18, 2017 [37 favorites]
Absolutely. Speaking here as a Texan Democrat I absolutely do not think the right approach is to simply write off various states and retreat into a handful of liberal states.
But that's a very different thing from the whole reaching out handwringing I'm seeing a lot of both here and elsewhere. It looks like a lot of people seem to imagine that the Democrats have basically been just ignoring huge portions of America, especially that oh-so-special "white working class" part of America when the truth is that the Democrats have been chasing that vote as hard as they can for my entire life.
And they aren't getting it.
So redirect elsewhere. Yes, keep the door open. If a former Trumper wants to give up their support for the Republicans and become a Democrat I'll welcome them with open arms. But I'm no longer interested in wasting resources trying to get racist old white hicks to vote Democratic. They won't so let's not bother trying too hard there.
posted by sotonohito at 4:18 AM on March 18, 2017 [37 favorites]
Nothing wrong with what Nader said in that interview. We all get the spoiler role he played way back when, but his comments today seem standard issue. We all basically agree!
That's not the point. The point is that Nader was a "fuck you I'm taking my ball and going home" leftist when it came to Hillary and is now going "TOLD YOU SO! YOU GOT PLAYED!" with Trump.
He's a sniveling little snake who just wants to point out shit is bad without even fucking realized he played a marginal role in causing it.
posted by Talez at 4:57 AM on March 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
That's not the point. The point is that Nader was a "fuck you I'm taking my ball and going home" leftist when it came to Hillary and is now going "TOLD YOU SO! YOU GOT PLAYED!" with Trump.
He's a sniveling little snake who just wants to point out shit is bad without even fucking realized he played a marginal role in causing it.
posted by Talez at 4:57 AM on March 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
But I'm no longer interested in wasting resources trying to get racist old white hicks to vote Democratic. They won't so let's not bother trying too hard there.
They were once the Democratic base, and then Johnson lost the Dixiecrat vote somehow. What is the thing linking their voting patterns then and now? Racism is pretty much it.
posted by jaduncan at 5:03 AM on March 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
They were once the Democratic base, and then Johnson lost the Dixiecrat vote somehow. What is the thing linking their voting patterns then and now? Racism is pretty much it.
posted by jaduncan at 5:03 AM on March 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
well, the democrats can't lose an election without looking for a scapegoat somewhere
posted by pyramid termite at 5:08 AM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 5:08 AM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
They were once the Democratic base, and then Johnson lost the Dixiecrat vote somehow. What is the thing linking their voting patterns then and now? Racism is pretty much it.
Given the visceral reaction to Obamacare one might think they're still bitter about their lives being saved by Medicare.
posted by Talez at 5:08 AM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Given the visceral reaction to Obamacare one might think they're still bitter about their lives being saved by Medicare.
posted by Talez at 5:08 AM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Plus there is like only one question in that interview where he doesn't interrupt Amy Goodman.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 5:31 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 5:31 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I noticed that Nader said that Obama started several wars with other countries. What's up with that?
posted by SillyShepherd at 5:51 AM on March 18, 2017
posted by SillyShepherd at 5:51 AM on March 18, 2017
Steve Bannon in College: Grateful Dead Fan, ‘Jerry Brown Liberal,’ ‘Ladies Man’
I can only assume he heard "California Uber Alles" and didn't realize it was a joke.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:51 AM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
I can only assume he heard "California Uber Alles" and didn't realize it was a joke.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:51 AM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
I seem to remember that Biosphere 2 failed because the building created so much CO2 from the concrete that the plants couldn't cope and everyone was basically suffocated out. Overwhelming ambition, incompetence, ignorance and noxious emissions caused complete collapse of the system.
When do we start calling the White House Biosphere 3?
posted by Devonian at 5:55 AM on March 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
When do we start calling the White House Biosphere 3?
posted by Devonian at 5:55 AM on March 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
I seem to remember that Biosphere 2 failed because the building created so much CO2 from the concrete that the plants couldn't cope
...
When do we start calling the White House Biosphere 3?
WikiPenis: "Biosphere 2 suffered from CO2 levels that "fluctuated wildly," and most of the vertebrate species and all of the pollinating insects died."
Oh, G-d, we're all gonna die.
posted by mikelieman at 6:10 AM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
...
When do we start calling the White House Biosphere 3?
WikiPenis: "Biosphere 2 suffered from CO2 levels that "fluctuated wildly," and most of the vertebrate species and all of the pollinating insects died."
Oh, G-d, we're all gonna die.
posted by mikelieman at 6:10 AM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've posted my lunatic conspiracy theory about Steve Bannon and Biosphere 2 before, but I'll link to it now just to make myself look a little more deranged.
posted by MrVisible at 6:16 AM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by MrVisible at 6:16 AM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Given the visceral reaction to Obamacare one might think they're still bitter about their lives being saved by Medicare.
You joke, but I think you might be kinda right. There's something humiliating about being "saved." It can make you feel helpless, and ashamed. It can make you resent the person who saved you, and imagine they think they are better than you. It can make you feel obligated, which is a terrible feeling. There is a reason so many macho men refuse to accept help or charity even when they need it. They don't like the way it makes them feel.
I wonder how much conservative resentment of liberal "elites" really does stem from resentment over having been "saved." I'm not sure how we would counter that ... except maybe the leftist approach of doing away with means testing, so that people can benefit from the government without feeling like they are getting charity. Thinking about it in these terms makes me more sympathetic to that line of argument. Of course, Medicare already IS that. /ThinkingOutLoud
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:18 AM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
You joke, but I think you might be kinda right. There's something humiliating about being "saved." It can make you feel helpless, and ashamed. It can make you resent the person who saved you, and imagine they think they are better than you. It can make you feel obligated, which is a terrible feeling. There is a reason so many macho men refuse to accept help or charity even when they need it. They don't like the way it makes them feel.
I wonder how much conservative resentment of liberal "elites" really does stem from resentment over having been "saved." I'm not sure how we would counter that ... except maybe the leftist approach of doing away with means testing, so that people can benefit from the government without feeling like they are getting charity. Thinking about it in these terms makes me more sympathetic to that line of argument. Of course, Medicare already IS that. /ThinkingOutLoud
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:18 AM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
our conspiracy theorist president listens to it instead of the most advanced IC in history and rather than admit a mistake he starts international incidents with two allies and then it really escalates and that is how the world ended.
Well, yes, but to be fair she really could have said some damaging things in those emails. Probably admitting she baked all those kids into a pizza at the Bengazzis.
And speaking of the topic, with the exception of candidate tRump constantly barfing it up on his base, the ONLY reason "her emails" played for more than a few weeks total was the corporate media's insistence on cudgeling her with it to affect a horse-race narrative.
NYT, WaPo, Politico, CNN (bless your heart CNN, please just pack it in), all these outlets who are shocked, shocked at the display of corruption and incompetence from this bullsitistration are wallowing in the crappile they intentionally built for fun. Nevar Forget!
Nothing will change - we'll do this all again - without a major overhaul to our major news outlets. And at barely three months into non-stop whatthefuckery, the best they can do is splutter indignantly. Yes, there are some very good articles being written - but it's not enough to feed the 24x7 cycle, it was never going to be enough, and these organizations have always known that.
posted by petebest at 6:21 AM on March 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
Well, yes, but to be fair she really could have said some damaging things in those emails. Probably admitting she baked all those kids into a pizza at the Bengazzis.
And speaking of the topic, with the exception of candidate tRump constantly barfing it up on his base, the ONLY reason "her emails" played for more than a few weeks total was the corporate media's insistence on cudgeling her with it to affect a horse-race narrative.
NYT, WaPo, Politico, CNN (bless your heart CNN, please just pack it in), all these outlets who are shocked, shocked at the display of corruption and incompetence from this bullsitistration are wallowing in the crappile they intentionally built for fun. Nevar Forget!
Nothing will change - we'll do this all again - without a major overhaul to our major news outlets. And at barely three months into non-stop whatthefuckery, the best they can do is splutter indignantly. Yes, there are some very good articles being written - but it's not enough to feed the 24x7 cycle, it was never going to be enough, and these organizations have always known that.
posted by petebest at 6:21 AM on March 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
That story about Bannon, along with many other tales about other current extremist conservatives who started out as noted liberals, is why I don't trust anyone, y'all. And the noted movement of many from "firebrand liberal" to "firebrand conservative" just makes me want to run away from anyone considered a "firebrand" anything.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:39 AM on March 18, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:39 AM on March 18, 2017 [27 favorites]
The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless White Mind
The people of Trump Country, like so much of white America, long for a past that never was, and a future that cannot be. A past cleansed of conflict, where a big, paternalistic company gave them nice things if they worked hard. A future where, who knows, maybe an orange-haired grifter really will restore everything to the way it allegedly was back in their parents’ time because … well, because he said he would.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:45 AM on March 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
The people of Trump Country, like so much of white America, long for a past that never was, and a future that cannot be. A past cleansed of conflict, where a big, paternalistic company gave them nice things if they worked hard. A future where, who knows, maybe an orange-haired grifter really will restore everything to the way it allegedly was back in their parents’ time because … well, because he said he would.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:45 AM on March 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
Oh FFS... Does he really not understand why we historically might not want a very militarized and/or nuclear Germany? And that this shit will lead to it? Of course he doesn't.
@realDonaldTrump
Despite what you have heard from the FAKE NEWS, I had a GREAT meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Nevertheless, Germany owes.....
@realDonaldTrump
...vast sums of money to NATO & the United States must be paid more for the powerful, and very expensive, defense it provides to Germany!
posted by chris24 at 6:58 AM on March 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Despite what you have heard from the FAKE NEWS, I had a GREAT meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Nevertheless, Germany owes.....
@realDonaldTrump
...vast sums of money to NATO & the United States must be paid more for the powerful, and very expensive, defense it provides to Germany!
posted by chris24 at 6:58 AM on March 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Network of wealthy Russians has sunk $100m into Donald Trump's luxury developments
posted by adamvasco at 6:59 AM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 6:59 AM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
And of course, NATO doesn't have fucking dues like Mar-a-Lago. Members agree to try to spend 2% of GDP on defense. But it's not compulsory and there's no penalties. No one owes anything.
posted by chris24 at 7:09 AM on March 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 7:09 AM on March 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
The people of Trump Country, like so much of white America, long for a past that never was, and a future that cannot be. A past cleansed of conflict, where a big, paternalistic company gave them nice things if they worked hard. A future where, who knows, maybe an orange-haired grifter really will restore everything to the way it allegedly was back in their parents’ time because … well, because he said he would.
Midnight Oil's Blue Sky Mine seems oddly appropriate here.
posted by Talez at 7:14 AM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Midnight Oil's Blue Sky Mine seems oddly appropriate here.
posted by Talez at 7:14 AM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Ugh, that NATO dues thing. Covering for Europe, et al, is a small price to pay for international hegemony, Mr Trump!
posted by notyou at 7:35 AM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by notyou at 7:35 AM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Fahrenthold is at it again, Trump’s camp made three big promises to donate money to charity. What happened?
Before he took office, Donald Trump said he would not accept his presidential salary. An aide said he would donate the money instead.posted by peeedro at 7:37 AM on March 18, 2017 [59 favorites]
The Trump Organization — the president’s global real estate and branding business — pledged not to keep any profits that it made by renting hotel rooms and banquet halls to foreign governments. Those proceeds, Trump’s attorney said, would be given to the U.S. treasury.
And the committee that raised a record $90 million for Trump’s inauguration pledged that, after running a no-frills celebration, the remaining funds would be given to charity.
In all three cases, these pledges of generosity seemed designed to allay a concern about Trump expressed by some critics — that this wealthy president, who had refused to relinquish ownership of his businesses, might use his public office to enrich himself or his friends.
But nearly two months into the Trump presidency, little information has been released to show how, or if, those promises are being kept.
And of course, NATO doesn't have fucking dues like Mar-a-Lago.
There are dues (see Direct funding). But indeed, nobody argues that western countries don't pay those contributions, the issue is about some of them not spending quite as much money on defense. Note that *if* we're talking about those direct contributions, the US, despite having 4 times as many people, only pays 1.5 times the amount of money that Germany pays. France and Germany together pay more than the US pays.
I find it interesting that Trump, self described master deal maker, doesn't understand that there are other ways in which those countries are allies and that if you start to play hard ball, they might too. For example, here in the Netherlands, we have 22 American nuclear bombs, just like many other European countries have them.
A few days ago, our prime minster threw out a Turkish minister as an "unwanted alien" with the clear message that this is our country and we set our rules. And yet we allow American military in our country to work on nuclear weapons. Many Dutch people are not happy at all with the American nuclear bombs in this very populated country. But, we have them, probably because we really value relationships with the US. But apparently that doesn't matter at all to Trump.
posted by blub at 7:48 AM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
There are dues (see Direct funding). But indeed, nobody argues that western countries don't pay those contributions, the issue is about some of them not spending quite as much money on defense. Note that *if* we're talking about those direct contributions, the US, despite having 4 times as many people, only pays 1.5 times the amount of money that Germany pays. France and Germany together pay more than the US pays.
I find it interesting that Trump, self described master deal maker, doesn't understand that there are other ways in which those countries are allies and that if you start to play hard ball, they might too. For example, here in the Netherlands, we have 22 American nuclear bombs, just like many other European countries have them.
A few days ago, our prime minster threw out a Turkish minister as an "unwanted alien" with the clear message that this is our country and we set our rules. And yet we allow American military in our country to work on nuclear weapons. Many Dutch people are not happy at all with the American nuclear bombs in this very populated country. But, we have them, probably because we really value relationships with the US. But apparently that doesn't matter at all to Trump.
posted by blub at 7:48 AM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
okay, yeah, we should defund the state department.
because no matter what we achieve diplomatically, this chucklefuck is going to dismantle it first thing in the morning with a tweet
posted by murphy slaw at 7:53 AM on March 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
because no matter what we achieve diplomatically, this chucklefuck is going to dismantle it first thing in the morning with a tweet
posted by murphy slaw at 7:53 AM on March 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's really mostly because Trump is an idiot. There are no deep policy maneuvers, there are no philosophical reasons, no plans. He's just an idiot who spews out whatever nonesense he thinks will play well with his audience: whether it's true, relevant, or impossible makes absolutely no difference to him.
"NATO isn't paying their dues" means "other countries should do whatever we want because I'm going to claim they owe us" nothing more, nothing less.
posted by lydhre at 7:57 AM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
"NATO isn't paying their dues" means "other countries should do whatever we want because I'm going to claim they owe us" nothing more, nothing less.
posted by lydhre at 7:57 AM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
anyway here's a cute meme from yesterday's meeting to take your mind off of impending global war
posted by murphy slaw at 8:05 AM on March 18, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 8:05 AM on March 18, 2017 [26 favorites]
other countries should do whatever we want because I'm going to claim they owe us
He does seem to have a neuron or two firing at getting some form of repayment for age-old debts right now.
Trump's Mirror again? Like I'm sure throughout his "career" he's been creatively re-billed for debts he's bilked, and presumably done the same.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:06 AM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
He does seem to have a neuron or two firing at getting some form of repayment for age-old debts right now.
Trump's Mirror again? Like I'm sure throughout his "career" he's been creatively re-billed for debts he's bilked, and presumably done the same.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:06 AM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ugh, that NATO dues thing. Covering for Europe, et al, is a small price to pay for international hegemony, Mr Trump!
That worked when countering Russian expansionism was an American goal. Now everything's shifted and America is pro-Russian expansion, so everything is all messed up and pointing the wrong direction.
posted by Artw at 8:07 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
That worked when countering Russian expansionism was an American goal. Now everything's shifted and America is pro-Russian expansion, so everything is all messed up and pointing the wrong direction.
posted by Artw at 8:07 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here's a better video of handshake-gate. He definitely heard the question.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:12 AM on March 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:12 AM on March 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
anyway here's a cute meme from yesterday's meeting to take your mind off of impending global war
It was indeed cute, and I chuckled; but it didn't help with the "paralyzed by our apparently unstoppable descent into worldwide chaos" thing
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:21 AM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
It was indeed cute, and I chuckled; but it didn't help with the "paralyzed by our apparently unstoppable descent into worldwide chaos" thing
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:21 AM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Network of wealthy Russians has sunk $100m into Donald Trump's luxury developments
This is the same Reuters story posted earlier about Russian buyers for Trump properties in Florida. But it's different from the Bloomberg story about Russian buyers in Trump Tower in New York. And different again than the story Maddow connected to Wilbur Ross, about the single Russian oligarch who paid Trump $95 million for a Florida mansion he had paid $40 million for, four years earlier. And different from the story about Trump partnering with a company implicated in Russian money laundering (Bayrock) to develop Trump SoHo.
It's hard to keep all these stories straight. (Did I miss any?) But I think the fact that there are so many of them means, to me, that there is a huge paper trail here, and I think the chance that nothing illegal turns up now that people are examining that paper trail closely is pretty small, actually. Especially since many of the Russians in question in these various deals have already been publicly linked to money laundering in one way or another.
This financial stuff is a whole separate issue from the Flynn/Sessions/Manfort contacts and possible collaboration, a mostly separate issue from "The Dossier," and (maybe?) separate from the server that was mysteriously contacting Alfa Bank. But I think the financial stuff may have the most loose threads that could be pulled to unravel the whole thing.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:24 AM on March 18, 2017 [41 favorites]
This is the same Reuters story posted earlier about Russian buyers for Trump properties in Florida. But it's different from the Bloomberg story about Russian buyers in Trump Tower in New York. And different again than the story Maddow connected to Wilbur Ross, about the single Russian oligarch who paid Trump $95 million for a Florida mansion he had paid $40 million for, four years earlier. And different from the story about Trump partnering with a company implicated in Russian money laundering (Bayrock) to develop Trump SoHo.
It's hard to keep all these stories straight. (Did I miss any?) But I think the fact that there are so many of them means, to me, that there is a huge paper trail here, and I think the chance that nothing illegal turns up now that people are examining that paper trail closely is pretty small, actually. Especially since many of the Russians in question in these various deals have already been publicly linked to money laundering in one way or another.
This financial stuff is a whole separate issue from the Flynn/Sessions/Manfort contacts and possible collaboration, a mostly separate issue from "The Dossier," and (maybe?) separate from the server that was mysteriously contacting Alfa Bank. But I think the financial stuff may have the most loose threads that could be pulled to unravel the whole thing.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:24 AM on March 18, 2017 [41 favorites]
Oh, I did forget one, if you count money coming from former Soviet Republics which aren't Russia (and you probably should.) The hotel in Azerbaijan.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:31 AM on March 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:31 AM on March 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
OnceUponATime I'm not sure how we would counter that ... except maybe the leftist approach of doing away with means testing, so that people can benefit from the government without feeling like they are getting charity.
I'm 100% down with that, I'm a leftist.
But the funny/disturbing/whatever thing is that the very white rural voters who are a) most helped by social programs, and b) seem to have the resentment to charity you describe, are also the ones most virulently opposed to ending means testing.
Hell, they're cheering adding means testing to various government programs.
It seems like there's two conflicting urges at play, the first being the bootstraps urge to deny any and all assistance or need of assistance and to resent anyone who offers you assistance by rationalizing that if they weren't helping you then you'd be better off. The second is the urge to make absolutely sure that no one gets more assistance than you do, and that groups deemed undeserving by nature (black people, women, Hispanic people, etc) never get assistance if at all possible.
So on the one hand just making the various government programs open to all, benefits of being a citizen, is clearly both in their own self interest and would presumably make them feel better about getting the help they need. But on the other hand restricting those programs via means testing and other techniques is something they really want from a standpoint that I'd define as racial resentment and they'd probably rationalize as eliminating fraud, waste, and abuse.
Again we're running into the problem that the very thing we want, the thing that would help them the most, is the thing they hate with a burning passion and will actively work to subvert, destroy, and otherwise harm.
We're dealing with a group of people who, as corb pointed out many threads ago, see the idea of making the wealthy pay their fair share as somehow corrupt or thieving. Like most people they've got mutually contradictory goals and drives, and while their goals and objectives are mutually contradictory they are united in one respect: opposition to Democrats and programs that actually work and help.
I don't know if they were always like this or the steady poison of hate radio, prosperity gospel, and so on has made them this way, but regardless it's a deep and possibly intractable problem.
Either we try to help them, and they hate us for trying to help them, or we ignore their problems and they hate us as evil urban elites who won't help them.
I'm a bleeding heart liberal, and despite my rage I'm still firmly convinced that the right thing to do is to help them whether they want that help or not. But it's hard to help them when they vote their hate and bigotry and deny us the power to help them.
Worse, it seems quite tribal. When the help that they resent coming from us can be rationalized as coming from one of them suddenly they're all in favor of it. Obamacare was evil and horrible and needed to be destroyed. But suddenly now that Trump is in office the very stuff they hated with a burning passion 50 days ago is the best thing ever and they love Trump for "giving" it to them.
We help, and it's evil big government stomping on their liberty and snipping off their bootstraps. If the help can be seen as coming from Republicans, no matter how laughable and 100% false that perception is, then it's the best thing ever.
I have no idea how to fix this.
posted by sotonohito at 8:34 AM on March 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
I'm 100% down with that, I'm a leftist.
But the funny/disturbing/whatever thing is that the very white rural voters who are a) most helped by social programs, and b) seem to have the resentment to charity you describe, are also the ones most virulently opposed to ending means testing.
Hell, they're cheering adding means testing to various government programs.
It seems like there's two conflicting urges at play, the first being the bootstraps urge to deny any and all assistance or need of assistance and to resent anyone who offers you assistance by rationalizing that if they weren't helping you then you'd be better off. The second is the urge to make absolutely sure that no one gets more assistance than you do, and that groups deemed undeserving by nature (black people, women, Hispanic people, etc) never get assistance if at all possible.
So on the one hand just making the various government programs open to all, benefits of being a citizen, is clearly both in their own self interest and would presumably make them feel better about getting the help they need. But on the other hand restricting those programs via means testing and other techniques is something they really want from a standpoint that I'd define as racial resentment and they'd probably rationalize as eliminating fraud, waste, and abuse.
Again we're running into the problem that the very thing we want, the thing that would help them the most, is the thing they hate with a burning passion and will actively work to subvert, destroy, and otherwise harm.
We're dealing with a group of people who, as corb pointed out many threads ago, see the idea of making the wealthy pay their fair share as somehow corrupt or thieving. Like most people they've got mutually contradictory goals and drives, and while their goals and objectives are mutually contradictory they are united in one respect: opposition to Democrats and programs that actually work and help.
I don't know if they were always like this or the steady poison of hate radio, prosperity gospel, and so on has made them this way, but regardless it's a deep and possibly intractable problem.
Either we try to help them, and they hate us for trying to help them, or we ignore their problems and they hate us as evil urban elites who won't help them.
I'm a bleeding heart liberal, and despite my rage I'm still firmly convinced that the right thing to do is to help them whether they want that help or not. But it's hard to help them when they vote their hate and bigotry and deny us the power to help them.
Worse, it seems quite tribal. When the help that they resent coming from us can be rationalized as coming from one of them suddenly they're all in favor of it. Obamacare was evil and horrible and needed to be destroyed. But suddenly now that Trump is in office the very stuff they hated with a burning passion 50 days ago is the best thing ever and they love Trump for "giving" it to them.
We help, and it's evil big government stomping on their liberty and snipping off their bootstraps. If the help can be seen as coming from Republicans, no matter how laughable and 100% false that perception is, then it's the best thing ever.
I have no idea how to fix this.
posted by sotonohito at 8:34 AM on March 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
Hillary Clinton said Friday she’s “ready to come out of the woods” and help Americans find common ground.
I immediately sent this to a friend, and her reply was 100% correct: we don't deserve her. But thank God we have her.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:36 AM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
I immediately sent this to a friend, and her reply was 100% correct: we don't deserve her. But thank God we have her.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:36 AM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
I also can't believe I spend a non-trivial amount of time hoping Mattis has a 25th amendment / coup-related back up plan.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:39 AM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 8:39 AM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't think this has been previously linked.
This account in five sections traces Trump's fascination for Russia from its beginnings in Soviet times through deals done in the Putin era to Trump's appointment of a slew of Russia-connected advisers during the US presidential campaign. It concludes with outside views on Trump's long-standing Russia ties and the president-elect's own explanations.
posted by adamvasco at 8:40 AM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
This account in five sections traces Trump's fascination for Russia from its beginnings in Soviet times through deals done in the Putin era to Trump's appointment of a slew of Russia-connected advisers during the US presidential campaign. It concludes with outside views on Trump's long-standing Russia ties and the president-elect's own explanations.
posted by adamvasco at 8:40 AM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Hillary Clinton says she’s ‘ready to come out of the woods’
Pretty much the last thing we need is the Clintons having any continued influence over the party. If we're ever going to rebuild, it has to be with a new roster of new faces. Her and Bill can help with fundraising, fine. But they shouldn't be visible out front and I want them, Chuck Schumer, and everyone remotely linked with the Clintonite wing entirely disassociated with candidate recruitment. New people not named Clinton. Jason Kanders, not Patrick Murphys.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:44 AM on March 18, 2017 [38 favorites]
Pretty much the last thing we need is the Clintons having any continued influence over the party. If we're ever going to rebuild, it has to be with a new roster of new faces. Her and Bill can help with fundraising, fine. But they shouldn't be visible out front and I want them, Chuck Schumer, and everyone remotely linked with the Clintonite wing entirely disassociated with candidate recruitment. New people not named Clinton. Jason Kanders, not Patrick Murphys.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:44 AM on March 18, 2017 [38 favorites]
Letter: Without Obamacare, my brother will be thrown into the abyss: My parents must be rolling in their graves at the way their government has lost not just its mind, but its heart on health care policy. But we must not lose this fight. We’re all our brother’s (and sister's) keepers, and our neighbors’ health and safety is directly related to our own.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:50 AM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:50 AM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Here's a better video of handshake-gate. He definitely heard the question.
Yeah, and his lack of affect. I guess it's time for Grandpa to go get a psych eval.
posted by mikelieman at 9:00 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, and his lack of affect. I guess it's time for Grandpa to go get a psych eval.
posted by mikelieman at 9:00 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Good morning. People have different and very strong feelings about Clinton, pro and con. If it leads to "fuck you"s, that's the point where we need folks to just voluntarily take a breather.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:00 AM on March 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:00 AM on March 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
At a town hall meeting held by my state representative and senator right now. My state rep on his work on sister cities and states programs: "Well, if we're not going to have a State Department..."
posted by asperity at 9:07 AM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by asperity at 9:07 AM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
A MAGA-hat wearing ex-family member (thanks, FSM!) who is also a Red Pill type packs an inordinate amount of baggage around his and other people's handshakes and what they mean vis-a-vis respect, a word he never fails to intone without a heaping pile of bro-serious portentiousness. He blathers on about taking the measure of a man (always a man) from his handshake, how it reveals character, how it's a sign of his willingness to trust at first meeting, but that trust has got to be earned and handshakes today are no guarantee of handshakes tomorrow if you prove yourself unworthy, or an enemy blah blah blah. [Cue the You're Not Wrong, You're Just As Asshole meme.]
Anyway, this guy is prone to saying stuff like "If I met Obama, I'd refuse to shake his hand" as though that slight was going to send the President to the bathroom for a good cry and rattle him for the rest of the day. I've seen him pull Trumpian dominance moves like the time he tried to flip Mr. Carmicha's hand over flat and in the bottom position. Oh and he really hates shaking the hands of women unless they do that submissive fingers-pointing-down thing. I have received a lecture about this because my firm level handshake is apparently inappropriately aggressive for someone with ovaries.
TL;DR I guarantee Trump's slight of Merkel is playing well with his base. To them, she's a sneering European who owes us money and isn't conventionally attractive and he's a tough rich guy.
I'm so glad this guy is mostly out of our lives since, of course, he's completely uninterested in his kids, way behind on child support, etc. But I digress.
posted by carmicha at 9:10 AM on March 18, 2017 [50 favorites]
Anyway, this guy is prone to saying stuff like "If I met Obama, I'd refuse to shake his hand" as though that slight was going to send the President to the bathroom for a good cry and rattle him for the rest of the day. I've seen him pull Trumpian dominance moves like the time he tried to flip Mr. Carmicha's hand over flat and in the bottom position. Oh and he really hates shaking the hands of women unless they do that submissive fingers-pointing-down thing. I have received a lecture about this because my firm level handshake is apparently inappropriately aggressive for someone with ovaries.
TL;DR I guarantee Trump's slight of Merkel is playing well with his base. To them, she's a sneering European who owes us money and isn't conventionally attractive and he's a tough rich guy.
I'm so glad this guy is mostly out of our lives since, of course, he's completely uninterested in his kids, way behind on child support, etc. But I digress.
posted by carmicha at 9:10 AM on March 18, 2017 [50 favorites]
This was mentioned in passing above, but has anyone offered an explanation for why the stolen Secret Service laptop had "information about the Hillary Clinton email probe" on it? I can't think of any possible reason the Secret Service would have this. It looks like a setup for a leak of some sort.
posted by stopgap at 9:15 AM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by stopgap at 9:15 AM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
My state rep is holding a town hall today and I can't go because my husband is out of town and I'm rolling solo with my 4-year-old (who is definitely not the sort to appreciate a loud crowded room of angry adults). He's a Democrat so already on the side of good, but I'm bummed I can't go. My D senator will be doing one in a couple weeks, though, which I'll be able to go to hopefully. Still no sighting of our R senator.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:20 AM on March 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:20 AM on March 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
New Trump billboard appears in Phoenix
posted by porn in the woods at 9:24 AM on March 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 9:24 AM on March 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
Reaching out and trying to understand the other side has gotten us nowhere. Fuck'em.
As a white guy myself, I don't think it helps to take this attitude. Politically and socially, we don't let nonwhites opt out of accepting some share of collective responsibility for the behaviors and attitudes of the groups we view them as affiliated with. If it's not up to the "good whites" to confront and take responsibility for the racist rot in their own communities and families, whose job is it? Their victims? It's privilege to feel one gets to see oneself as an "other" not affiliated with those "bad whites" as a white person living in and socialized in the U.S., isn't it, regardless of what makes for winning electoral strategy?
posted by saulgoodman at 9:25 AM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
As a white guy myself, I don't think it helps to take this attitude. Politically and socially, we don't let nonwhites opt out of accepting some share of collective responsibility for the behaviors and attitudes of the groups we view them as affiliated with. If it's not up to the "good whites" to confront and take responsibility for the racist rot in their own communities and families, whose job is it? Their victims? It's privilege to feel one gets to see oneself as an "other" not affiliated with those "bad whites" as a white person living in and socialized in the U.S., isn't it, regardless of what makes for winning electoral strategy?
posted by saulgoodman at 9:25 AM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump kicked One Direction out of his hotel after they refused to meet his adult daughter -- "He was like, ‘OK, then I don’t want you in my hotel.’ So we had to leave."
As One Direction member Liam Payne recounts in a new interview with Rollacoaster, the group once had the misfortune of staying in one of Trump’s hotels. The sentient Cheeto phoned up to their room asking if they would meet his daughter (which one is unclear, though it’s worth noting that both are grown women). When he was told the group was asleep, Trump demanded they be waken up. When their manager declined, Trump threw everyone out of the hotel. “So he was like, ‘OK, then I don’t want you in my hotel.’ So we had to leave,” Payne remembers.posted by Room 641-A at 9:43 AM on March 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
New Trump billboard appears in Phoenix
But is that pro or con?
posted by Artw at 9:45 AM on March 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
But is that pro or con?
posted by Artw at 9:45 AM on March 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
Olivia Nuzzi on her cover story on Kellyanne in "New York" magazine: A former Trump adviser just told me it'll be "tough" for Conway to "explain" this headline to the president on Monday (via twitter)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:47 AM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:47 AM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
and I want ... everyone remotely linked with the Clintonite wing entirely disassociated with candidate recruitment.
Oh, OK. Bye. If you young boys ever need us again, to, I dunno, make pancakes or run the State Dept., we'll be over here. Look for the pink pussy hats.
Wait, before I leave, a couple of comments on events of the past several days:
We can't afford Head Start. We CAN afford to spend millions so Barron won't have to change rich-boy schools mid-year.
We can't afford Meals on Wheels. We can afford millions to send a 70 y.o. demented billionairre to his private club in Florida EVERY fecking weekend.
And it's now utterly clear to anyone with half a brain that Republicans want a country whose domestic policy is based on Scrooge, pre-ghosts. (Let them die and decrease the surplus population.) And a highly antagonistic - even to our most solid allies- foreign policy. Meanwhile what do you think Dear Leader Bannon plans to do with such a gargantuan military?
We're becoming North Korea, quite rapidly.
posted by NorthernLite at 9:47 AM on March 18, 2017 [35 favorites]
Oh, OK. Bye. If you young boys ever need us again, to, I dunno, make pancakes or run the State Dept., we'll be over here. Look for the pink pussy hats.
Wait, before I leave, a couple of comments on events of the past several days:
We can't afford Head Start. We CAN afford to spend millions so Barron won't have to change rich-boy schools mid-year.
We can't afford Meals on Wheels. We can afford millions to send a 70 y.o. demented billionairre to his private club in Florida EVERY fecking weekend.
And it's now utterly clear to anyone with half a brain that Republicans want a country whose domestic policy is based on Scrooge, pre-ghosts. (Let them die and decrease the surplus population.) And a highly antagonistic - even to our most solid allies- foreign policy. Meanwhile what do you think Dear Leader Bannon plans to do with such a gargantuan military?
We're becoming North Korea, quite rapidly.
posted by NorthernLite at 9:47 AM on March 18, 2017 [35 favorites]
I have no idea how to fix this.
Sometimes the [body politic] has to want to change. Conservatives are fairly literally all about not changing.
Dog caught the car.
posted by petebest at 9:59 AM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sometimes the [body politic] has to want to change. Conservatives are fairly literally all about not changing.
Dog caught the car.
posted by petebest at 9:59 AM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
How did Trump know what room One Direction were staying in?
posted by rhizome at 10:12 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 10:12 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I realize that I probably tout Raygun's stuff too much, but I thought that some people here might be interested in a Nevertheless, Science Persisted shirt.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:15 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:15 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
US 'forces G20 to drop any mention of climate change' in joint statement
-- Financial officials from the world's biggest economies have dropped from a joint statement any mention of financing action on climate change, reportedly following pressure from the US and Saudi Arabia.
-- It did, however, say: "We reaffirm our commitment to rationalise and phase out, over the medium term, inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption, recognising the need to support the poor.
"Furthermore, we encourage all G20 countries which have not yet done so, to initiate as soon as feasible a peer review of inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption."
posted by futz at 10:16 AM on March 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
-- Financial officials from the world's biggest economies have dropped from a joint statement any mention of financing action on climate change, reportedly following pressure from the US and Saudi Arabia.
-- It did, however, say: "We reaffirm our commitment to rationalise and phase out, over the medium term, inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption, recognising the need to support the poor.
"Furthermore, we encourage all G20 countries which have not yet done so, to initiate as soon as feasible a peer review of inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption."
posted by futz at 10:16 AM on March 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
I would also endorse a "Nevertheless, she persisted with science" shirt, ArbitraryAndCapricious. Two great tastes that are great together!
posted by lydhre at 10:18 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 10:18 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Undocumented farm worker arrested by ICE while attempting to settle DUI case: Carillo and his wife were driving to the Chittenden County Courthouse during Wednesday’s snowstorm to have his DUI charges dismissed after he completed a series of court requests. But, Carrillo never even made it into the courtroom.
“He was grabbing onto me, he didn't want to go with him. He was telling me,'What do I do now?' I was trying to be strong for him, I didn’t cry, I just kept calm and said don’t worry everything will be fine just go,” Deida said.
Deida doesn't have a driver’s license was left to get home on her own, while also having to worry about what to tell the couple's 4-year-old daughter.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:19 AM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
“He was grabbing onto me, he didn't want to go with him. He was telling me,'What do I do now?' I was trying to be strong for him, I didn’t cry, I just kept calm and said don’t worry everything will be fine just go,” Deida said.
Deida doesn't have a driver’s license was left to get home on her own, while also having to worry about what to tell the couple's 4-year-old daughter.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:19 AM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
I would also endorse a "Nevertheless, she persisted with science" shirt, ArbitraryAndCapricious. Two great tastes that are great together!I did order a box of 100 women in science postcards for when I want to send postcards to my elected representatives.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:24 AM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Damn. The US is really fucking things up at the G20.
G20 financial leaders row back on free trade pledge
The world's financial leaders rowed back on a pledge to keep an open and inclusive global trade system after being unable to find a suitable compromise with an increasingly protectionist United States.
Making only a token reference to trade in their communique, finance ministers and central bank chiefs from the world's top 20 economies broke with a decade-long tradition of endorsing open trade, a clear defeat for host nation Germany, which has fought to maintain the G20's past commitments.
posted by futz at 10:34 AM on March 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
G20 financial leaders row back on free trade pledge
The world's financial leaders rowed back on a pledge to keep an open and inclusive global trade system after being unable to find a suitable compromise with an increasingly protectionist United States.
Making only a token reference to trade in their communique, finance ministers and central bank chiefs from the world's top 20 economies broke with a decade-long tradition of endorsing open trade, a clear defeat for host nation Germany, which has fought to maintain the G20's past commitments.
posted by futz at 10:34 AM on March 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
Interesting commentary at 538 on who Dems should be primarying (near the bottom of the page). I.e., not Manchin, because the win scenario - WV elects a more leftist senator - is pretty improbable. But there are some reps who are in reliably blue districts, but vote a lot more conservative, and would be good targets.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:37 AM on March 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 10:37 AM on March 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
John Podesta WaPo op-ed on the VA governor race, which has a really interesting Dem primary between Lt Gov Northam and former Rep Perriello. Perriello is considered to be the more lefty of the two, so it's a surprise to see Podesta endorse him.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:01 AM on March 18, 2017
posted by Chrysostom at 11:01 AM on March 18, 2017
Chrysostom I can, with varying degrees of reluctance depending on the day, agree in principle that there's better targets for primarying than Manchin. As long as we're taking out some of the worst actors and can use that success to terrify the Manchins of the world into compliance I'm cool.
We need to decide who is going to be primaried soon though so we can all focus our money on ousting them.
Cuellar and Costa sound like great targets to me. Let's take 'em down and see if that scares the others into being better Democrats!
posted by sotonohito at 11:03 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
We need to decide who is going to be primaried soon though so we can all focus our money on ousting them.
Cuellar and Costa sound like great targets to me. Let's take 'em down and see if that scares the others into being better Democrats!
posted by sotonohito at 11:03 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
The world's financial leaders rowed back on a pledge to keep an open and inclusive global trade system after being unable to find a suitable compromise with an increasingly protectionist United States.
I'm not sure they understand that if we retreat from international trade we stop sending out dollars. If we stop sending out dollars we will lose our status as the world's reserve currency. After that it becomes a question of the Euro or the Yuan. After that the United States can stamp its feet and shout but nobody will care.
The right might be comforted by the US being able to take on the next seven largest countries combined but, then again, it's only seven. We can't project our power if the rest of the world unilaterally decides to stand up to the United States because we no longer are worth the trouble of appeasing our now obvious fears of inadequacy. The US gets a massive free ride because the rest of the world puts up with it. No country could do what we did with QE1 and 2 and not see massive hyperinflation. Once the currency is cut loose we're fucked.
If this situation isn't played perfectly it will be the end of Pax Americana. Then we're back to the question, Pax Europa or Pax Sinica?
posted by Talez at 11:04 AM on March 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
I'm not sure they understand that if we retreat from international trade we stop sending out dollars. If we stop sending out dollars we will lose our status as the world's reserve currency. After that it becomes a question of the Euro or the Yuan. After that the United States can stamp its feet and shout but nobody will care.
The right might be comforted by the US being able to take on the next seven largest countries combined but, then again, it's only seven. We can't project our power if the rest of the world unilaterally decides to stand up to the United States because we no longer are worth the trouble of appeasing our now obvious fears of inadequacy. The US gets a massive free ride because the rest of the world puts up with it. No country could do what we did with QE1 and 2 and not see massive hyperinflation. Once the currency is cut loose we're fucked.
If this situation isn't played perfectly it will be the end of Pax Americana. Then we're back to the question, Pax Europa or Pax Sinica?
posted by Talez at 11:04 AM on March 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
And I live in Cuellar's area, not his district but only a few miles outside it. I'll be out walking the street to get signatures to take that motherfucker down.
posted by sotonohito at 11:05 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 11:05 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
My state rep is holding a town hall today and I can't go because my husband is out of town and I'm rolling solo with my 4-year-old (who is definitely not the sort to appreciate a loud crowded room of angry adults).
This one was our state legislators, and while it was definitely the most crowded such town hall I've seen (last one I attended had less than half this morning's crowd) it was mostly pretty calm, so that's something. (Still probably pretty boring for a 4-year-old.) I'm always comforted by knowing that we have decent people representing us, and by hearing them talk about their successes and failures and limitations.
A couple of people were unhappy that the legislators were only taking questions via card rather than allowing everyone a turn at public speaking, but I agreed with the legislators that we'd never have gotten out of there if it had been open mic. I mean, they only provided breakfast, not lunch, too.
posted by asperity at 11:06 AM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
This one was our state legislators, and while it was definitely the most crowded such town hall I've seen (last one I attended had less than half this morning's crowd) it was mostly pretty calm, so that's something. (Still probably pretty boring for a 4-year-old.) I'm always comforted by knowing that we have decent people representing us, and by hearing them talk about their successes and failures and limitations.
A couple of people were unhappy that the legislators were only taking questions via card rather than allowing everyone a turn at public speaking, but I agreed with the legislators that we'd never have gotten out of there if it had been open mic. I mean, they only provided breakfast, not lunch, too.
posted by asperity at 11:06 AM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
> If this situation isn't played perfectly...
You can stop right there.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:10 AM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
You can stop right there.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:10 AM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
The day after Brexit, Merkel presses a button, and across Europe, the circle of stars and "European Union" flip over to reveal a double eagle and "Novum Sacrum Imperium Romanum".
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 11:38 AM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 11:38 AM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
The day after Brexit, Merkel presses a button, and across Europe, the circle of stars and "European Union" flip over to reveal a double eagle and "Novum Sacrum Imperium Romanum".
Let's be serious. Lutherans and Catholics running an empire together? You've got more chance of a two state I/P peace deal happening on Trump's watch.
posted by Talez at 11:48 AM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Let's be serious. Lutherans and Catholics running an empire together? You've got more chance of a two state I/P peace deal happening on Trump's watch.
posted by Talez at 11:48 AM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
The only princely member state of the Holy Roman Empire that has preserved its status as a monarchy until today is the Principality of Liechtenstein. The only Free Imperial Cities still being states within Germany are Hamburg and Bremen.
Angela Merkel was born in Hamburg. COINCIDENCE???
(Yes.)
posted by tobascodagama at 11:49 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Angela Merkel was born in Hamburg. COINCIDENCE???
(Yes.)
posted by tobascodagama at 11:49 AM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
The "fight" against Gorsuch is over: Democratic senator will introduce Trump’s SCOTUS nominee at his hearing.
Our Democrats have learned nothing. Even still.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:00 PM on March 18, 2017 [41 favorites]
Our Democrats have learned nothing. Even still.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:00 PM on March 18, 2017 [41 favorites]
About Judge Napolitano and the former CIA guy, Media Matters says that the former CIA guy went on Russia Today and said the stuff about GCHQ first, and from there Napolitano got ahold of it.
Link:
The New York Times has confirmed that Fox News legal analyst Andrew Napolitano sourced his false allegation that former President Barack Obama asked British intelligence to spy on President Donald Trump to a discredited former CIA analyst. This analyst, Larry C. Johnson, floated the conspiracy theory on the Russian state-sponsored news network RT on March 6, the week after Trump’s original accusation that Obama was responsible for an illegal wiretap.
On March 13, Napolitano told hosts of Fox News’ Fox & Friends that Obama circumvented the American intelligence community to ask “the British spying agency” for “transcripts of conversations involving candidate Trump” without “American fingerprints.” Napolitano’s claims were cited by White House press secretary Sean Spicer while defending Trump’s baseless claims that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower during the 2016 presidential election.
On March 14, Media Matters uncovered the link between Napolitano's claims and an interview Johnson gave to RT. The New York Times confirmed Media Matters' reporting that Napolitano used Johnson as “one of the sources” for his “claim about British intelligence.” The Times also noted Johnson’s direct involvement in spreading false rumors that video existed of Michelle Obama using a racial slur against white people.
posted by gucci mane at 12:02 PM on March 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Link:
The New York Times has confirmed that Fox News legal analyst Andrew Napolitano sourced his false allegation that former President Barack Obama asked British intelligence to spy on President Donald Trump to a discredited former CIA analyst. This analyst, Larry C. Johnson, floated the conspiracy theory on the Russian state-sponsored news network RT on March 6, the week after Trump’s original accusation that Obama was responsible for an illegal wiretap.
On March 13, Napolitano told hosts of Fox News’ Fox & Friends that Obama circumvented the American intelligence community to ask “the British spying agency” for “transcripts of conversations involving candidate Trump” without “American fingerprints.” Napolitano’s claims were cited by White House press secretary Sean Spicer while defending Trump’s baseless claims that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower during the 2016 presidential election.
On March 14, Media Matters uncovered the link between Napolitano's claims and an interview Johnson gave to RT. The New York Times confirmed Media Matters' reporting that Napolitano used Johnson as “one of the sources” for his “claim about British intelligence.” The Times also noted Johnson’s direct involvement in spreading false rumors that video existed of Michelle Obama using a racial slur against white people.
posted by gucci mane at 12:02 PM on March 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Fucks sake...
posted by Artw at 12:03 PM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 12:03 PM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Politicians are fast learning how to bring climate denial into the classroom under Trump
US states consider laws allowing Creationism to be taught by science teachers: The bill would allow science teachers to present ideas “that may cause controversy” on issues such as evolution and global warming
Next Up in 4th Period: Climate Denial. This week in the laboratories of democracy.
posted by homunculus at 12:03 PM on March 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
US states consider laws allowing Creationism to be taught by science teachers: The bill would allow science teachers to present ideas “that may cause controversy” on issues such as evolution and global warming
Next Up in 4th Period: Climate Denial. This week in the laboratories of democracy.
posted by homunculus at 12:03 PM on March 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
This is unusual: Top NSA official ridicules allegation Britain spied on Trump:
posted by zachlipton at 12:22 PM on March 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
Richard Ledgett, deputy director of the NSA, told BBC News the idea that Britain had a hand in spying on Trump was "just crazy".Between this and GCHQ's incredibly rare statement, The NSA and GCHQ are simply not going to let Trump fuck up the US-UK intelligence partnership for political purposes.
"It belies a complete lack of understanding of how the relationship works between the intel community agencies, it completely ignores the political reality of 'would the UK government agree to do that?'", Ledgett said.
There would be no advantage for Britain's government in spying on Trump, given the potential cost, he said.
"It would be epically stupid," said Ledgett, who is due to retire shortly.
posted by zachlipton at 12:22 PM on March 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
Talez The Pax Americana is over already, it's just taking time for that fact to be recognized.
What worries me deeply is that there's nothing to really replace it, and that the whole delicate framework of bullshit, lies, diplomacy, and pretense will collapse and we'll wind up with wars like we had prior to the 1950's only with modern tech.
Its like vaccines, or the Y2K problem. We solved the problem of massive, horrifying, wars so thoroughly that lots of people now have the foolish idea that the current situation is natural rather than being the result of a shit ton of work and money.
So Trump, May, LePen, and the other scumfuckers can cheerfully go around kicking the foundations of peace apart for their own short term gain and no one realizes that they're about to bring down the whole fucking world.
posted by sotonohito at 12:23 PM on March 18, 2017 [54 favorites]
What worries me deeply is that there's nothing to really replace it, and that the whole delicate framework of bullshit, lies, diplomacy, and pretense will collapse and we'll wind up with wars like we had prior to the 1950's only with modern tech.
Its like vaccines, or the Y2K problem. We solved the problem of massive, horrifying, wars so thoroughly that lots of people now have the foolish idea that the current situation is natural rather than being the result of a shit ton of work and money.
So Trump, May, LePen, and the other scumfuckers can cheerfully go around kicking the foundations of peace apart for their own short term gain and no one realizes that they're about to bring down the whole fucking world.
posted by sotonohito at 12:23 PM on March 18, 2017 [54 favorites]
Also, while I expected the Dems to cave on Gorsuch, I didn't expect such craven and pathetic caving. Congrats Senate Democrats, you've rewarded the Republican blockage of Garland, and their nullification of the last year of Obama's term in office, and told them in no uncertain terms that they can repeat that sort of behavior over, and over, and over, and you'll never make them pay a price.
At this point it is reasonable to assume that, if there is ever a Democratic President again, the Republicans will simply block any and all Supreme Court nominations they make. Why wouldn't they? The Democrats have demonstrated that they will be permitted to do so and pay no penalty for their actions.
It's easy to see the consequences of fighting this out, to see that holding up Gorsuch would have political fallout, and it's easy to see why cowards with no foresight at all would chose to cave here. But the consequences of letting the Republicans get away with blocking Garland and nullifying Obama's final year in office are bigger, if harder to see.
I'm so simultaneously enraged and despairing that I can't even muster profanity. I knew it'd happen, I knew they'd cave, I can't say I'm surprised, but the speed and totality of the surrender is truly horrifying.
posted by sotonohito at 12:28 PM on March 18, 2017 [55 favorites]
At this point it is reasonable to assume that, if there is ever a Democratic President again, the Republicans will simply block any and all Supreme Court nominations they make. Why wouldn't they? The Democrats have demonstrated that they will be permitted to do so and pay no penalty for their actions.
It's easy to see the consequences of fighting this out, to see that holding up Gorsuch would have political fallout, and it's easy to see why cowards with no foresight at all would chose to cave here. But the consequences of letting the Republicans get away with blocking Garland and nullifying Obama's final year in office are bigger, if harder to see.
I'm so simultaneously enraged and despairing that I can't even muster profanity. I knew it'd happen, I knew they'd cave, I can't say I'm surprised, but the speed and totality of the surrender is truly horrifying.
posted by sotonohito at 12:28 PM on March 18, 2017 [55 favorites]
Nevertheless, Science Persisted shirt.
Is this like an #AllPersistersMatter thing?
posted by rhizome at 12:30 PM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is this like an #AllPersistersMatter thing?
posted by rhizome at 12:30 PM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think people are hoping the whole rattling framework of international relations manages to stagger on for another 4 years with the supporting pillar of the US presidency kicked out of it, and itwill still be there when a replacement can be installled, but really at this point it's not going to take much to kill it permenantly.
Bannnon knows that, Putin knows that, ISIS et al fill figure it out... way to many people with a desire to kick Western democracy to bits are in a position to do so.
posted by Artw at 12:39 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Bannnon knows that, Putin knows that, ISIS et al fill figure it out... way to many people with a desire to kick Western democracy to bits are in a position to do so.
posted by Artw at 12:39 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Two South Carolina lawmakers prepping survivalist communities to 'restore the fabric of America': "They are encouraging neighbors to support 'principled men' — such as themselves — who are willing to nullify laws and court rulings they don’t agree with, like abortion, gay marriage, gun restrictions and federal standards for driver's licenses."
posted by adamg at 12:40 PM on March 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by adamg at 12:40 PM on March 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
In response to an inquiry from ThinkProgress regarding Bennet’s decision to introduce Gorsuch, Bennet’s press secretary Laurie Cipriano wrote that “it is tradition for senators to introduce nominees from their home state,” and that Bennet “has not taken a position on Gorsuch, nor will he take a position during the introduction.”As cavings go, this doesn't exactly sound like abject patheticness? As it says, Senators traditionally introduce candidates from their state.
posted by Justinian at 12:43 PM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Then we're back to the question, Pax Europa or Pax Sinica?
Given it's just opposite ends of the same landmass, now joined by high speed freight and passenger trains, I'm guessing it will be an all inclusive Pax Eurasia
posted by infini at 12:48 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Given it's just opposite ends of the same landmass, now joined by high speed freight and passenger trains, I'm guessing it will be an all inclusive Pax Eurasia
posted by infini at 12:48 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Senators traditionally introduce candidates from their state.
Just like the "tradition" of senators blocking the appointment of judges in the last year of a president's term? Oh, wait, that isn't a tradition. So why now?
Colorado has a Republican senator. Let him perform the tradition. This is just embarrassing submission to dominance.
posted by JackFlash at 12:49 PM on March 18, 2017 [51 favorites]
Just like the "tradition" of senators blocking the appointment of judges in the last year of a president's term? Oh, wait, that isn't a tradition. So why now?
Colorado has a Republican senator. Let him perform the tradition. This is just embarrassing submission to dominance.
posted by JackFlash at 12:49 PM on March 18, 2017 [51 favorites]
As cavings go, this doesn't exactly sound like abject patheticness? As it says, Senators traditionally introduce candidates from their state.
And he won't commit to opposing him. Wrong answer.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:50 PM on March 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
And he won't commit to opposing him. Wrong answer.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:50 PM on March 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Colorado has a Republican senator. Let him perform the tradition. This is just embarrassing submission to dominance.
This. Cory Gardner is trying to spin himself into a moderate because he knows he's fucked in 2020. Let him introduce the asshole.
posted by Talez at 12:56 PM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
This. Cory Gardner is trying to spin himself into a moderate because he knows he's fucked in 2020. Let him introduce the asshole.
posted by Talez at 12:56 PM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
AdamG that is an incredible article.
They believe that government should be replaced by militias and churches...Its Christian fundamentalists end times fantasy land.
posted by SyraCarol at 12:56 PM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
They believe that government should be replaced by militias and churches...Its Christian fundamentalists end times fantasy land.
posted by SyraCarol at 12:56 PM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Gorsuch Is Just a Start as Right Plans a Remake of the Judiciary
The scale and sophistication of the right’s judicial confirmation efforts would seem to portend a dark period ahead for the left, which, despite having made great strides under Mr. Obama, finds itself outmaneuvered.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:05 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
The scale and sophistication of the right’s judicial confirmation efforts would seem to portend a dark period ahead for the left, which, despite having made great strides under Mr. Obama, finds itself outmaneuvered.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:05 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
“The way I would describe this group is the John Birch Society meets prepper-culture, combined with a kind of Christian restorationist sensibility and expressed in a business PowerPoint kind of way,” said David Sehat, a history professor at Georgia State University.
least successful Tinder profile of 2017
posted by theodolite at 1:09 PM on March 18, 2017 [43 favorites]
least successful Tinder profile of 2017
posted by theodolite at 1:09 PM on March 18, 2017 [43 favorites]
I wonder whether Merkel's decision to wear a pantsuit to her meeting with Trump was an intentional sly dig and, regardless, whether it set him off. Nasty woman, dontcha know.
posted by carmicha at 1:15 PM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by carmicha at 1:15 PM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
why the stolen Secret Service laptop had "information about the Hillary Clinton email probe" on it?
That's just code for an Anthony Wiener dick pick and by know they are probably several on every laptop in America solicited or not.
posted by srboisvert at 1:30 PM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's just code for an Anthony Wiener dick pick and by know they are probably several on every laptop in America solicited or not.
posted by srboisvert at 1:30 PM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Inside Trump’s White House, New York moderates spark infighting and suspicion: This account of the internal workings of Trump’s team is based on interviews with 18 top White House officials, confidants of the president and other senior Republicans with knowledge of the relationships, many of whom requested anonymity to speak candidly.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:48 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:48 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
> Our Democrats have learned nothing. Even still.
Someone in one of these threads said that they had come to the conclusion that the Democratic Party's role in the current system is to just play good cop to the Republicans' bad cop while the country gets looted. Come to think of it, that sounds like Canada's Liberal Party, too...
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:49 PM on March 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Someone in one of these threads said that they had come to the conclusion that the Democratic Party's role in the current system is to just play good cop to the Republicans' bad cop while the country gets looted. Come to think of it, that sounds like Canada's Liberal Party, too...
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:49 PM on March 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
….and there's the explanation for Ivanka at "Come from Away". Trudeau invited Donald.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:51 PM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:51 PM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
It falls down when the Republicans go ahead and set fire to the the store after looting it.
posted by Artw at 1:53 PM on March 18, 2017
posted by Artw at 1:53 PM on March 18, 2017
Someone in one of these threads said that they had come to the conclusion that the Democratic Party's role in the current system is to just play good cop to the Republicans' bad cop while the country gets looted.
This seems like a dressed-up "both sides are the same!!". Which, I think, has been conclusively and decisively disproven by the last 3 months.
posted by Justinian at 1:53 PM on March 18, 2017 [27 favorites]
This seems like a dressed-up "both sides are the same!!". Which, I think, has been conclusively and decisively disproven by the last 3 months.
posted by Justinian at 1:53 PM on March 18, 2017 [27 favorites]
I haven't seen most of this information about Flynn shared in the thread yet. Veeery interesting.
Russian company that paid Flynn deemed ‘unsuitable’ by Pentagon
A Russian air cargo carrier that paid former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn more than $11,000 had been blacklisted without warning by the Pentagon months before he became Donald Trump’s top campaign adviser on military matters, according to documents obtained by McClatchy.
Documents released Thursday by Democrats on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform omitted an important piece of information: At the time that the U.S. affiliate of Russian cargo airline Volga-Dnepr paid Flynn $11,250 in August 2015, the Russian company had been frozen out by the Pentagon since February that year and was trying to learn why.
“Unsuitable for use,” is how a U.S. Transportation Command (USTRANSCOM) email in May 2015 characterized the air cargo carrier.
One possible explanation in the heavily redacted documents obtained by McClatchy: Volga-Dnepr in December 2014 ferried two Su-30MK2 attack aircraft to Da Nang, Vietnam, on behalf of Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport.
The Russian defense firm was one of 23 ‑ including some in China and Turkey ‑ hit by U.S. sanctions in September 2015 for alleged violations of treaties that banned the spread of missile technologies.
Documents released Thursday by Rep. Elijah Cummings of Maryland, the ranking Democrat on the House oversight committee, about Volga-Dnepr showed that an affiliate of the air cargo company had paid Flynn $11,250 in August 2015.
The revelation that Flynn was paid by a Russian air cargo firm considered off-limits by the Pentagon first emerged in a posting Friday by blogger Cristo Grozev, a Bulgarian with media interests in Western Europe and Ukraine.
posted by futz at 1:55 PM on March 18, 2017 [15 favorites]
Russian company that paid Flynn deemed ‘unsuitable’ by Pentagon
A Russian air cargo carrier that paid former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn more than $11,000 had been blacklisted without warning by the Pentagon months before he became Donald Trump’s top campaign adviser on military matters, according to documents obtained by McClatchy.
Documents released Thursday by Democrats on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform omitted an important piece of information: At the time that the U.S. affiliate of Russian cargo airline Volga-Dnepr paid Flynn $11,250 in August 2015, the Russian company had been frozen out by the Pentagon since February that year and was trying to learn why.
“Unsuitable for use,” is how a U.S. Transportation Command (USTRANSCOM) email in May 2015 characterized the air cargo carrier.
One possible explanation in the heavily redacted documents obtained by McClatchy: Volga-Dnepr in December 2014 ferried two Su-30MK2 attack aircraft to Da Nang, Vietnam, on behalf of Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport.
The Russian defense firm was one of 23 ‑ including some in China and Turkey ‑ hit by U.S. sanctions in September 2015 for alleged violations of treaties that banned the spread of missile technologies.
Documents released Thursday by Rep. Elijah Cummings of Maryland, the ranking Democrat on the House oversight committee, about Volga-Dnepr showed that an affiliate of the air cargo company had paid Flynn $11,250 in August 2015.
The revelation that Flynn was paid by a Russian air cargo firm considered off-limits by the Pentagon first emerged in a posting Friday by blogger Cristo Grozev, a Bulgarian with media interests in Western Europe and Ukraine.
posted by futz at 1:55 PM on March 18, 2017 [15 favorites]
You're on a roll, spitbull.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:18 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:18 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm dead.
This 5-Year-Old Geography Whiz Expertly Burned Trump On "The Ellen Show"
posted by Room 641-A at 2:19 PM on March 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
This 5-Year-Old Geography Whiz Expertly Burned Trump On "The Ellen Show"
posted by Room 641-A at 2:19 PM on March 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
It's crazy how much worse and more blatant all this stuff is than even historical U.S. scandals like Tea Pot Dome that brought other admins down. We're just getting used to being abused and taken for granted by our leaders at this point I guess.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:19 PM on March 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 2:19 PM on March 18, 2017 [21 favorites]
Guardian: Rex Tillerson defends blocking reporters from diplomatic trip to Asia
“I’ve been very successful diplomatically for over 25 years,” he said. “Done some really tough deals around the world with some really difficult governments. I’ve been successful because I was always able to respect their integrity and respect the fact that they have a population they have to take care of.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:31 PM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
“And the less I said about what we were trying to do in public, the easier it was for them to manage the outcome, and in the end we could be successful.”
also, this thread has moved into mobile-stressing territory; we would be most grateful for a new one
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:33 PM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:33 PM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
This seems like a dressed-up "both sides are the same!!". Which, I think, has been conclusively and decisively disproven by the last 3 months.
it'll be conclusively and decisively disproven when the democrats in the senate filibuster and/or block things
(i'm the guy who said the good cop/bad cop thing, although i said nothing about looting)
posted by pyramid termite at 2:34 PM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
it'll be conclusively and decisively disproven when the democrats in the senate filibuster and/or block things
(i'm the guy who said the good cop/bad cop thing, although i said nothing about looting)
posted by pyramid termite at 2:34 PM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Philip Bump, WaPo: How much is Donald Trump’s travel and protection costing, anyway?
Not as much as some estimates (but still too much.)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:41 PM on March 18, 2017
Not as much as some estimates (but still too much.)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:41 PM on March 18, 2017
So, re that NYT story. Can someone explain to me how anything trump has actually done could be considered "populist"? The health care proposal is a tax cut for the rich at the expense of literally everyone else. So is his budget proposal. "The populists are winning" narrative of that story has a giant "assumes facts not in evidence" thing going on. He says "all my white people get unicorns" but that's not actually what he's doing.
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:41 PM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:41 PM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
Populism = Racism is popular with assholes.
posted by Artw at 2:44 PM on March 18, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:44 PM on March 18, 2017 [26 favorites]
So in this usage populist means "screwing everyone but the very rich, but we hate black and brown people so it's all good"?
Can we just call that racism and skip the middleman?
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:46 PM on March 18, 2017 [26 favorites]
Can we just call that racism and skip the middleman?
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:46 PM on March 18, 2017 [26 favorites]
I think that the only really populist thing trump has done is to assure white republicans that they are not, and can never be, intolerant or wrong about anything, and that it is a shadowy cabal of elites working together trying to make them feel bad about being white. That was, assuredly, enough to win the election, and really as much populism as the evil identity politics of the American republican party can stomach or cares to embrace.
posted by codacorolla at 2:49 PM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 2:49 PM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
He said some stuff about not cutting Social Security and Medicare. And jobs, somehow. Oh, you said "done". He's "done" nothing populist. But still gets credit for his campaign lies. He's a new kind of Republican!
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:16 PM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:16 PM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I guess in my head, I had Populism=Happy Socialism, a variety of politics that was focused on the well being of the People. As it turns out, I was wrong, much like my version of Liberal, which is almost the same as my definition of populist, so imagine my confusion when exposed to how the rest of the western world defines it.
Anyway, Populism, just one more thing Trump has ruined for me.
In Russia news, last night Rachel maddow did most of her show about the fact that the Senate Intelligence committee had requested data from the NSA, CIA, and FBI, with a deadline, and that all three branches had declined to provide said data. Which Rachel seemed to believe was leading to a serious constitutional crisis, should the IC decide they are not answerable to the Senate.
However, I'm having trouble sourcing the story anywhere else, has anyone else seen other reports about this?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 3:24 PM on March 18, 2017
Anyway, Populism, just one more thing Trump has ruined for me.
In Russia news, last night Rachel maddow did most of her show about the fact that the Senate Intelligence committee had requested data from the NSA, CIA, and FBI, with a deadline, and that all three branches had declined to provide said data. Which Rachel seemed to believe was leading to a serious constitutional crisis, should the IC decide they are not answerable to the Senate.
However, I'm having trouble sourcing the story anywhere else, has anyone else seen other reports about this?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 3:24 PM on March 18, 2017
In which Jason Kander Twitter-punches Richard Spencer
posted by zachlipton at 3:35 PM on March 18, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:35 PM on March 18, 2017 [49 favorites]
Trump and Mussolini: 11 Key Lessons from Historical Fascism.
Italian fascism provides a better model for our moment than Nazi Germany—and the comparison is not encouraging.
posted by adamvasco at 3:44 PM on March 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Italian fascism provides a better model for our moment than Nazi Germany—and the comparison is not encouraging.
posted by adamvasco at 3:44 PM on March 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
I had always defined populism as "everyone* gets a unicorn, whether or not that's actually a good idea." Like, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not automatically a good thing either.
*definition of "everyone" definitely subject to varying degrees of racism.
But it seems to me that no one actually in the White House currently has any intention of ever delivering anyone even a single unicorn under any circumstances. The only populist thing happening there is the lies being uttered by Trump, which everyone around him feels perfectly free to contradict with their actual actions and proposals at every opportunity.
Hence my confusion at Costa et al calling Bannon, Priebus and Miller "populists." They are the people that proposed a budget that literally takes food out of the mouths of children and the elderly.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:58 PM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
*definition of "everyone" definitely subject to varying degrees of racism.
But it seems to me that no one actually in the White House currently has any intention of ever delivering anyone even a single unicorn under any circumstances. The only populist thing happening there is the lies being uttered by Trump, which everyone around him feels perfectly free to contradict with their actual actions and proposals at every opportunity.
Hence my confusion at Costa et al calling Bannon, Priebus and Miller "populists." They are the people that proposed a budget that literally takes food out of the mouths of children and the elderly.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:58 PM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Now here's a handy thing to chant:
Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX), the chair of the House Rules Committee, faced a raucous crowd at a town hall event in Texas on Saturday as he attempted to explain Republicans' plan to repeal and replace Obamacare.posted by peeedro at 4:28 PM on March 18, 2017 [70 favorites]
...
During the question and answer portion of the town hall, the congressman told the audience, "We are going to make the changes, we are going to pass the bill and we are going to repeal Obamacare."
That comment was met with a chant of "Vote him out!"
Ugh those prepper/legislators are a piece of work. They think that neighbors should call each other instead of the police? Oh yeah next time my house is burgled I'll be sure to have my neighbors come over because that will be so helpful. And the idea of calling your neighbors if your spouse starts getting abusive? Ooof I can only imagine how well that would go. Police are trained to deescalate the situation whereas your neighbors might just make things worse and no doubt the patriarchy would support the husband beating the wife.
My eyes bugged out when they said that public education should go back to the one room schoolhouse where the teacher is chosen by the parents. No doubt as homeschoolers themselves they think that having a bunch of different ages all sitting quietly and filling out their workbooks is optimal but I don't think the one room schoolhouse is going to work outside of rural areas. And by the way one of the commenters noted that one of the legislators got his law degree from a correspondence school but has been unable to pass the bar exam so he was working as an electrician. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of homeschooling-- at least of the fundamental religious kind.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:32 PM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
My eyes bugged out when they said that public education should go back to the one room schoolhouse where the teacher is chosen by the parents. No doubt as homeschoolers themselves they think that having a bunch of different ages all sitting quietly and filling out their workbooks is optimal but I don't think the one room schoolhouse is going to work outside of rural areas. And by the way one of the commenters noted that one of the legislators got his law degree from a correspondence school but has been unable to pass the bar exam so he was working as an electrician. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of homeschooling-- at least of the fundamental religious kind.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:32 PM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Dang y'all! That VOTE HIM OUT chant peeedro linked is awesome. That's Lewisville and Grapevine TX which used to be completely unyieldingly conservative. People are pissed. I've listen to that dude talk down to people forever. It's pure pleasure seeing him get yelled at.
posted by dog food sugar at 5:11 PM on March 18, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by dog food sugar at 5:11 PM on March 18, 2017 [43 favorites]
I like "Vote Him Out", but what I fantasize about is hearing the crowd sing the chorus of Led Zeppelin's "Your Time Is Gonna Come" in full, deafening harmony anytime one of these fucks shows their despicable face.
posted by uosuaq at 5:59 PM on March 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 5:59 PM on March 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
also, this thread has moved into mobile-stressing territory; we would be most grateful for a new one
To quote and paraphrase many other people: Is the new post button broken?
posted by futz at 6:02 PM on March 18, 2017
To quote and paraphrase many other people: Is the new post button broken?
posted by futz at 6:02 PM on March 18, 2017
Horrifying shit. Kids on winning robotics team told, 'Go back to Mexico': The Pleasant Run Elementary students had just won a robotics challenge at Plainfield High School, and the students — new to bot competition this year — were one step closer to the Vex IQ State Championship.
The team is made up of 9- and 10-year-olds. Two are African American and three are Latino.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:30 PM on March 18, 2017 [36 favorites]
The team is made up of 9- and 10-year-olds. Two are African American and three are Latino.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:30 PM on March 18, 2017 [36 favorites]
"Your old road is rapidly aging.
Please Get the fuck out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand!"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:49 PM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you can't lend your hand!"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:49 PM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is the new post button broken?
No, but I can't post until tomorrow and I'm worried my iPad will melt.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:51 PM on March 18, 2017
No, but I can't post until tomorrow and I'm worried my iPad will melt.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:51 PM on March 18, 2017
Can you believe this shit:
For Tim Allen, being a non-liberal in Hollywood is like being in 1930s Germany
posted by porn in the woods at 6:52 PM on March 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
For Tim Allen, being a non-liberal in Hollywood is like being in 1930s Germany
posted by porn in the woods at 6:52 PM on March 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
I had always defined populism as "everyone* gets a unicorn, whether or not that's actually a good idea." Like, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not automatically a good thing either.
I'd never heard the term until recently, so I thought it meant "a *promise* that everyone gets a unicorn"
So everyone votes to get their unicorn, because hey, a unicorn, but unicorn-giver doesn't have to deliver once they're safe in office. And often doesn't, because they're safe in office.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:57 PM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'd never heard the term until recently, so I thought it meant "a *promise* that everyone gets a unicorn"
So everyone votes to get their unicorn, because hey, a unicorn, but unicorn-giver doesn't have to deliver once they're safe in office. And often doesn't, because they're safe in office.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:57 PM on March 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
ugh please don't retroactively ruin Galaxy Quest for me, I have so few joys left in life
posted by nonasuch at 6:59 PM on March 18, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by nonasuch at 6:59 PM on March 18, 2017 [27 favorites]
The scale and sophistication of the right’s judicial confirmation efforts would seem to portend a dark period ahead for the left, which, despite having made great strides under Mr. Obama, finds itself outmaneuvered.
Outmaneuvered? There was no maneuvering. Neither party has a filibuster proof majority. The Republicans just declared they would filibuster any Obama nominee. That isn't a maneuver. That's just a political decision.
Likewise the Democrats could simply make a political decision that no Republican nominee goes before Merrick Garland or else filibuster. That doesn't require any tricky maneuver. It just requires discipline.
posted by JackFlash at 6:59 PM on March 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
Outmaneuvered? There was no maneuvering. Neither party has a filibuster proof majority. The Republicans just declared they would filibuster any Obama nominee. That isn't a maneuver. That's just a political decision.
Likewise the Democrats could simply make a political decision that no Republican nominee goes before Merrick Garland or else filibuster. That doesn't require any tricky maneuver. It just requires discipline.
posted by JackFlash at 6:59 PM on March 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
For Tim Allen, being a non-liberal in Hollywood is like being in 1930s Germany
More "liberals don't tolerate intolerance therefore they aren't tolerant!" bullshit.
posted by Talez at 7:07 PM on March 18, 2017 [15 favorites]
More "liberals don't tolerate intolerance therefore they aren't tolerant!" bullshit.
posted by Talez at 7:07 PM on March 18, 2017 [15 favorites]
For Tim Allen, being a non-liberal in Hollywood is like being in 1930s Germany
(types and then deletes a half-dozen various Tim-Allen-in-Nazi-Germany hypotheticals, stares out window into a darkening world)
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:09 PM on March 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
(types and then deletes a half-dozen various Tim-Allen-in-Nazi-Germany hypotheticals, stares out window into a darkening world)
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:09 PM on March 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Tim Allen's full name is Timothy Allen Dick. Just needs a comma.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:11 PM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:11 PM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
By Grabthar's Hammer, what an asshole.
posted by peeedro at 7:12 PM on March 18, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 7:12 PM on March 18, 2017 [54 favorites]
Jimmy Buffet is totes on the good side tho.
Not a huge fan, per se, but somehow that helps.
Okay sometimes the first verse of "Pencil Thin Moustache" gets stuck in my head but I'm pretty sure its some form of wifi interference with the delta waves or something.
posted by petebest at 7:14 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not a huge fan, per se, but somehow that helps.
Okay sometimes the first verse of "Pencil Thin Moustache" gets stuck in my head but I'm pretty sure its some form of wifi interference with the delta waves or something.
posted by petebest at 7:14 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Likewise the Democrats could simply make a political decision that no Republican nominee goes before Merrick Garland or else filibuster. That doesn't require any tricky maneuver. It just requires discipline.
Call it maturity or stupidity but the Democrats tend to blink rather than open a Pandora's Box of a nuclear option. Keep in mind that the Republican second choice to having Gorsuch is having a SCOTUS with no quorum which will probably not take long.
posted by Talez at 7:16 PM on March 18, 2017
Call it maturity or stupidity but the Democrats tend to blink rather than open a Pandora's Box of a nuclear option. Keep in mind that the Republican second choice to having Gorsuch is having a SCOTUS with no quorum which will probably not take long.
posted by Talez at 7:16 PM on March 18, 2017
So reading both the NYT and WaPo "this week in everyone hates each other at the White House" stories, it's striking how they both tell pretty much exactly the same story of "Priebus and Bannon are buddy-buddy, but there's now a war between those guys and the Ivanka/Jared/Gary Cohn/Dina Powell New York liberal factions" (and when they say it, I can only assume there's a triple parenthesis around that part).
How did these stories both come out so remarkably similar? Does Spicer just type up scripts for everyone to read when they leak at this point?
posted by zachlipton at 7:17 PM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
How did these stories both come out so remarkably similar? Does Spicer just type up scripts for everyone to read when they leak at this point?
posted by zachlipton at 7:17 PM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Keep in mind that the Republican second choice to having Gorsuch is having a SCOTUS with no quorum which will probably not take long.
THey were the ones floating the concept that hey, maybe we don't evenb need 9 Justices - make them live with it.
posted by thelonius at 7:18 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
THey were the ones floating the concept that hey, maybe we don't evenb need 9 Justices - make them live with it.
posted by thelonius at 7:18 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here's a radical come concept: everyone in the inner circle gets along. Their every need is pampered to, so why not.
What if these leaked stories of infighting are total BS?
posted by Yowser at 7:21 PM on March 18, 2017
What if these leaked stories of infighting are total BS?
posted by Yowser at 7:21 PM on March 18, 2017
THey were the ones floating the concept that hey, maybe we don't evenb need 9 Justices - make them live with it.
They will live with it. The 5th circuit will turn the Deep South into a conservative paradise (or hell) on Earth!
posted by Talez at 7:22 PM on March 18, 2017
They will live with it. The 5th circuit will turn the Deep South into a conservative paradise (or hell) on Earth!
posted by Talez at 7:22 PM on March 18, 2017
What if these leaked stories of infighting are total BS?
With eighteen separate sources all corroborating? No, this crew is not that good.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 PM on March 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
yeah I guess that's true, but a 5-4 hard right majority won't be any better
posted by thelonius at 7:26 PM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 7:26 PM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
hey, you know who else thought they were living in 1930s germany?
posted by pyramid termite at 7:27 PM on March 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 7:27 PM on March 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
THey were the ones floating the concept that hey, maybe we don't evenb need 9 Justices - make them live with it.
Can't, they'll nuke the judicial filibuster.
posted by Justinian at 7:29 PM on March 18, 2017
Can't, they'll nuke the judicial filibuster.
posted by Justinian at 7:29 PM on March 18, 2017
make them do it, then - make them cross that line
posted by pyramid termite at 7:34 PM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 7:34 PM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
Oh, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be made to do it at some point. I simply meant that they won't "live with it" and there's no way we can make them.
posted by Justinian at 7:42 PM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 7:42 PM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
The White House Said Trump Was Going To A Golf Course For Meetings But Then This Picture Emerged
-- On Saturday, the president visited Trump International Golf Club. The White House told pool reporter Ben Kamisar of The Hill that Trump would be “be having meetings and phone calls [at the club] before returning to Mar-a-Lago.”
-- Trump was at the golf club for about three hours before he left, with officials still providing the pool reporter with “no further updates or readouts yet on the president’s time at Trump International Golf Club.”
Then this photo emerged…
Spoiler: Sure looks like he was golfing instead. Lying is hard work.
posted by futz at 7:48 PM on March 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
-- On Saturday, the president visited Trump International Golf Club. The White House told pool reporter Ben Kamisar of The Hill that Trump would be “be having meetings and phone calls [at the club] before returning to Mar-a-Lago.”
-- Trump was at the golf club for about three hours before he left, with officials still providing the pool reporter with “no further updates or readouts yet on the president’s time at Trump International Golf Club.”
Then this photo emerged…
Spoiler: Sure looks like he was golfing instead. Lying is hard work.
posted by futz at 7:48 PM on March 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
What if these leaked stories of infighting are total BS?
From Trump and Mussolini: 11 Key Lessons from Historical Fascism linked above:
Nonetheless, we ought not to be swayed by the temporary ascendancies of this or that group within the fascist hierarchy, whether it is Steve Bannon or Michael Flynn who rises or falls. Fascism is greater than the individuals who make up its core at any given moment. Fascism requires the strongman at the center to make it move, yet if a given personality fails to do the job, another can be found as replacement.posted by kirkaracha at 7:50 PM on March 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I mean, of course he was golfing. Who the heck goes from one of their private clubs to another one just to make phone calls?
posted by zachlipton at 7:55 PM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:55 PM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's fun to watch right-wing circular firing squads for a change: What is Neil Gorsuch's religion? It's complicated. (CNN)
As Gorsuch's Senate confirmation hearings approach this week, some hardline conservatives have raised concerns about his choice of church.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:13 PM on March 18, 2017 [18 favorites]
"Be advised," blared a tweet from Bryan Fischer, a host on the American Family Radio Network. "Gorsuch attends a church that is rabidly pro-gay, pro-Muslim, pro-green, and anti-Trump."
"Is Gorsuch a secret liberal?" asked an op-ed in The Hill, a Washington newspaper.
Another columnist argued that if conservatives complained about Barack Obama's former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, shouldn't they also grumble about Gorsuch's?
Secret Life of Gravy No doubt as homeschoolers themselves they think that having a bunch of different ages all sitting quietly and filling out their workbooks is optimal but I don't think the one room schoolhouse is going to work outside of rural areas.
I'm not sure what's worse, actually. That they imagine kids sitting around filling out workbooks, or that they really know how "education" happened in the one room schoolhouse of old and they want that. Filling out workbooks would be better.
For those not familiar with the history of American education, beyond perhaps reading Little House on the Prairie, the way the one room schoolhouse worked was not education in any modern sense of the word. Yes, the kids learned to read, write, and do arithmetic. Often quite impressive feats of mental arithmetic.
But the rest of their "education" consisted of the most ridiculous crap you'd imagine. Not merely rote memorization of facts, but rote memorization of a "lesson", that is perfect memory of every single word in a paragraph or two. In answer to the question "who was Julius Caesar" the teacher was looking for the student to recite back, word for word, that the book said. If the book said "Gaius Julius Caesar, known as Julius Caesar, was a Roman politician, general, and notable author of Latin prose. He played a critical role in the events that led to the demise of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire" then that was exactly what the student needed to say.
if the student said "Julius Caesar was a Roman general, who became dictator of Rome in 49BCE" that would be wrong. If the student said "Gaius Julius Caesar, known as Julius Caesar, was a Roman politician, notable author of Latin prose, and general. He played a critical role in the events that led to the demise of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire" That would also be wrong, because they put notable author of Latin prose before general. Likewise "Gaius Julius Caesar, known as Julius Caesar, was a Roman politician, general, and author of Latin prose. He played a critical role in the events that led to the demise of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire" is wrong because he was a **NOTABLE** author of Latin prose.
They wanted, and got, word for word perfect memorization of words. The student might not have a clue what the Roman Empire was, or when it was founded, or how the Empire differed from the Republic, or how Caesar came to power or what that even meant to history, but they could parrot back a lesson.
I hope that the people yammering about one room schools are merely hoping for kids sitting around filling out workbooks (doubtless from Creationist Christian sources), I fear that they really do know what they mean when they talk about one room schools and that they really do intend to try and turn education into nothing but the word for word perfect memorization of various pat little paragraphs.
posted by sotonohito at 8:18 PM on March 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
I'm not sure what's worse, actually. That they imagine kids sitting around filling out workbooks, or that they really know how "education" happened in the one room schoolhouse of old and they want that. Filling out workbooks would be better.
For those not familiar with the history of American education, beyond perhaps reading Little House on the Prairie, the way the one room schoolhouse worked was not education in any modern sense of the word. Yes, the kids learned to read, write, and do arithmetic. Often quite impressive feats of mental arithmetic.
But the rest of their "education" consisted of the most ridiculous crap you'd imagine. Not merely rote memorization of facts, but rote memorization of a "lesson", that is perfect memory of every single word in a paragraph or two. In answer to the question "who was Julius Caesar" the teacher was looking for the student to recite back, word for word, that the book said. If the book said "Gaius Julius Caesar, known as Julius Caesar, was a Roman politician, general, and notable author of Latin prose. He played a critical role in the events that led to the demise of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire" then that was exactly what the student needed to say.
if the student said "Julius Caesar was a Roman general, who became dictator of Rome in 49BCE" that would be wrong. If the student said "Gaius Julius Caesar, known as Julius Caesar, was a Roman politician, notable author of Latin prose, and general. He played a critical role in the events that led to the demise of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire" That would also be wrong, because they put notable author of Latin prose before general. Likewise "Gaius Julius Caesar, known as Julius Caesar, was a Roman politician, general, and author of Latin prose. He played a critical role in the events that led to the demise of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire" is wrong because he was a **NOTABLE** author of Latin prose.
They wanted, and got, word for word perfect memorization of words. The student might not have a clue what the Roman Empire was, or when it was founded, or how the Empire differed from the Republic, or how Caesar came to power or what that even meant to history, but they could parrot back a lesson.
I hope that the people yammering about one room schools are merely hoping for kids sitting around filling out workbooks (doubtless from Creationist Christian sources), I fear that they really do know what they mean when they talk about one room schools and that they really do intend to try and turn education into nothing but the word for word perfect memorization of various pat little paragraphs.
posted by sotonohito at 8:18 PM on March 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
It's fun to watch right-wing circular firing squads for a change
If only they had better aim, they seem to keep missing their targets.
posted by flatluigi at 8:18 PM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
If only they had better aim, they seem to keep missing their targets.
posted by flatluigi at 8:18 PM on March 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
They know they elected the first atheist president , right? I mean, not exactly what I would have hoped for from that, but still...
posted by Artw at 8:20 PM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:20 PM on March 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Are you really an atheist, though, if you think YOU are God?
posted by thebrokedown at 8:21 PM on March 18, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 8:21 PM on March 18, 2017 [48 favorites]
North Korea tests newly developed high-thrust rocket engine
posted by futz at 8:52 PM on March 18, 2017
posted by futz at 8:52 PM on March 18, 2017
God, they don't even know they are getting the attention they are desperate for and are now in fully on dummy out of pram mode.
posted by Artw at 8:55 PM on March 18, 2017
posted by Artw at 8:55 PM on March 18, 2017
I wonder whether Merkel's decision to wear a pantsuit to her meeting with Trump was an intentional sly dig
A. she didn't wear a suit in the pictures that are being passed around. If there was an insult buried in that relatively informal choice, good for her, but I doubt it.
and B. I rolled my eyes at this shit with Clinton but let it go because of the peculiar context. but no, German politicians are not obsessing over the cultural bizarreries and passing sexist fashion terminology obsessions of several decades ago in another country. Rather, they wear trousers on many formal occasions because German women have had divided legs since well before the War and we allowed them to keep on having them even after dissolving the Wehrmacht because the Allies were just generous that way.
"pantsuits," christ. let American women shoulder this demeaning burden alone, at least. European women have problems enough of their own.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:58 PM on March 18, 2017 [45 favorites]
The reason Clinton's pantsuits became a Thing was because she was given a lot of shit as First Lady in Arkansas for not wearing skirts.
posted by Superplin at 9:06 PM on March 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Superplin at 9:06 PM on March 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
...that they really do intend to try and turn education into nothing but the word for word perfect memorization of various pat little paragraphs.
Some people think that education is exactly that. The memorization of facts in order to pass tests for good grades to earn a piece of paper that you need to get a job. That job will likewise be filled with things you need to do to keep your boss from hassling you.
That idea was confirmed for me in one of my more advanced finance classes when someone in class didn't understand or rather seemed they couldn't be bothered to understand the concept of the time-value of money. That idea is kind of the foundation of finance so this person should have been REALLY comfy with that idea by this point but they had gotten by so far by just plugging the right variables into the right formulas until then without bothering to understand how they worked or why.
I've encountered similar attitudes since in my professional life and the near contempt for understanding how things fit into the larger picture really bugs me.
posted by VTX at 9:16 PM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
Some people think that education is exactly that. The memorization of facts in order to pass tests for good grades to earn a piece of paper that you need to get a job. That job will likewise be filled with things you need to do to keep your boss from hassling you.
That idea was confirmed for me in one of my more advanced finance classes when someone in class didn't understand or rather seemed they couldn't be bothered to understand the concept of the time-value of money. That idea is kind of the foundation of finance so this person should have been REALLY comfy with that idea by this point but they had gotten by so far by just plugging the right variables into the right formulas until then without bothering to understand how they worked or why.
I've encountered similar attitudes since in my professional life and the near contempt for understanding how things fit into the larger picture really bugs me.
posted by VTX at 9:16 PM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
The reason Clinton's pantsuits became a Thing was because she was given a lot of shit as First Lady in Arkansas for not wearing skirts.
I remember, that's the peculiar context I mean. and it persisted because time stands still when you hate a woman as much as people hate her. but in the meantime it has been what, three, four decades since women worried about arrest or other retaliation for revealing through their formal wear that their lower halves were not, as Samuel Butler believed until his eleventh year, made in one solid piece from the waist down to the ground. in the civilized world outside Arkansas and DC and certain courtrooms elsewhere in the U.S, wearing trousers is not cause for comment or a crafty way to send a message unless that message be "I am in a country where clothing one's lower parts in fabric is both law and custom and signalling my respect for their ways."
(I think it was Butler and I think it was his eleventh year. but who remembers. the fact remains that the only people who are making a political statement by wearing trousers in a Western nation are mermaids. )
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:38 PM on March 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
I remember, that's the peculiar context I mean. and it persisted because time stands still when you hate a woman as much as people hate her. but in the meantime it has been what, three, four decades since women worried about arrest or other retaliation for revealing through their formal wear that their lower halves were not, as Samuel Butler believed until his eleventh year, made in one solid piece from the waist down to the ground. in the civilized world outside Arkansas and DC and certain courtrooms elsewhere in the U.S, wearing trousers is not cause for comment or a crafty way to send a message unless that message be "I am in a country where clothing one's lower parts in fabric is both law and custom and signalling my respect for their ways."
(I think it was Butler and I think it was his eleventh year. but who remembers. the fact remains that the only people who are making a political statement by wearing trousers in a Western nation are mermaids. )
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:38 PM on March 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
(I think it was Butler and I think it was his eleventh year. but who remembers. the fact remains that the only people who are making a political statement by wearing trousers in a Western nation are mermaids. )
It looks like this is actually a bit from Butler's satirical novel The Fair Haven. The narrator is here recalling an incident from when his brother was five years old:
It looks like this is actually a bit from Butler's satirical novel The Fair Haven. The narrator is here recalling an incident from when his brother was five years old:
I remember that this was the occasion on which my brother discovered a good many things in connection with the fair sex which had hitherto been beyond his ken; more especially that the mass of petticoats and clothes which envelop the female form were not, as he expressed it to me, “all solid woman,” but that women were not in reality more substantially built than men, and had legs as much as he had, a fact which he had never yet realised. On this he for a long time considered them as impostors, who had wronged him by leading him to suppose that they had far more “body in them” (so he said), than he now found they had. This was a sort of thing which he regarded with stern moral reprobation.posted by Chrysostom at 10:01 PM on March 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
A few odds and sods:
Really great security at Mar-a-Lago (guy posting selfie on Instagram with the caption "Snuck by secret service to catch this selfie. They might have told us not to go in there")
Trump Administration Conflicts? Former Anthem Lobbyist To Oversee Antitrust Division: Report. Story claiming that a former top lobbyist for Anthem will be named to head the antitrust division at DOJ. You know, the office reviewing the Anthem-Cigna merger. The guy is already Deputy White House Counsel.
And this is a good column from last year's LA Times about the GOP's efforts to sabotage parts of Obamacare and how they've ended up hurting consumers and increasing costs: Rubio's legacy: How the GOP aimed its guns at Obamacare and hit innocent consumers instead. There's also a HuffPo article on the subject: Republicans Are Crying About Obamacare Problems They Helped Create
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 PM on March 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
Really great security at Mar-a-Lago (guy posting selfie on Instagram with the caption "Snuck by secret service to catch this selfie. They might have told us not to go in there")
Trump Administration Conflicts? Former Anthem Lobbyist To Oversee Antitrust Division: Report. Story claiming that a former top lobbyist for Anthem will be named to head the antitrust division at DOJ. You know, the office reviewing the Anthem-Cigna merger. The guy is already Deputy White House Counsel.
And this is a good column from last year's LA Times about the GOP's efforts to sabotage parts of Obamacare and how they've ended up hurting consumers and increasing costs: Rubio's legacy: How the GOP aimed its guns at Obamacare and hit innocent consumers instead. There's also a HuffPo article on the subject: Republicans Are Crying About Obamacare Problems They Helped Create
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 PM on March 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
in the civilized world outside Arkansas and DC
ahem.
get it skirts! no but really come on now
posted by aspersioncast at 10:30 PM on March 18, 2017
ahem.
get it skirts! no but really come on now
posted by aspersioncast at 10:30 PM on March 18, 2017
Most US young adults see Donald Trump presidency as illegitimate
But a small majority of young white voters are fine with Trump. The But Her Emails segment
posted by mumimor at 10:56 PM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
But a small majority of young white voters are fine with Trump. The But Her Emails segment
posted by mumimor at 10:56 PM on March 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
MetaFilter: rabidly pro-gay, pro-Muslim, pro-green, and anti-Trump
posted by kirkaracha at 11:19 PM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:19 PM on March 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
For Tim Allen, being a non-liberal in Hollywood is like being in 1930s Germany
OK, I'm playing catch-up, so forgive me here, but I just want to say I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!
Nearly four years ago, there was this FPP about Allen's big '90s show, Home Improvement, and at the time I posted a comment in that thread, at least as far as I can recall, Allen's politics weren't really being discussed. That's when I came in with this overthinking-a-plate-of-beans post.
God DAMMIT, I was right! These ugly people just give themselves away, no matter how much they think they're hiding it. I knew, viscerally, in my gut, all these years, that he was a right-wing, racist creep. All from a lame-ass, stupid "Hindu head wrap" joke in a dumb standup special in 1991.
Always trust your gut if you have a feeling someone's an asshole, politically, but is trying to hide it from you (and in Hollywood, yeah, you have to do that if you're a conservative — how HORRIBLE that you have to PRETEND to be a human being with empathy). I had this asshole pegged, even when I was a 15-year-old in shithole Jacksonville, Illinois.
(It could be argued that being forced to live in Jacksonville, Illinois — even for 13 months — sensitizes you to "secret fascists," though.)
posted by CommonSense at 11:24 PM on March 18, 2017 [48 favorites]
OK, I'm playing catch-up, so forgive me here, but I just want to say I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!
Nearly four years ago, there was this FPP about Allen's big '90s show, Home Improvement, and at the time I posted a comment in that thread, at least as far as I can recall, Allen's politics weren't really being discussed. That's when I came in with this overthinking-a-plate-of-beans post.
God DAMMIT, I was right! These ugly people just give themselves away, no matter how much they think they're hiding it. I knew, viscerally, in my gut, all these years, that he was a right-wing, racist creep. All from a lame-ass, stupid "Hindu head wrap" joke in a dumb standup special in 1991.
Always trust your gut if you have a feeling someone's an asshole, politically, but is trying to hide it from you (and in Hollywood, yeah, you have to do that if you're a conservative — how HORRIBLE that you have to PRETEND to be a human being with empathy). I had this asshole pegged, even when I was a 15-year-old in shithole Jacksonville, Illinois.
(It could be argued that being forced to live in Jacksonville, Illinois — even for 13 months — sensitizes you to "secret fascists," though.)
posted by CommonSense at 11:24 PM on March 18, 2017 [48 favorites]
It's an unpredictable world. What is Trump going to do if he needs NATO's help?
posted by rdr at 11:29 PM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rdr at 11:29 PM on March 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wonder whether Merkel's decision to wear a pantsuit to her meeting with Trump was an intentional sly dig
No. That's what Angela Merkel wears. She has a rotation of suits and if they weren't such earlier in her career, they are now armour against judging her on her appearance: the ways in which she ends up being judged are related to her suits and her haircut, rather than there being a new criticism of her appearance every week.
posted by frimble at 11:37 PM on March 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
No. That's what Angela Merkel wears. She has a rotation of suits and if they weren't such earlier in her career, they are now armour against judging her on her appearance: the ways in which she ends up being judged are related to her suits and her haircut, rather than there being a new criticism of her appearance every week.
posted by frimble at 11:37 PM on March 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
Please refer to the Pantone Merkel chart
posted by moody cow at 12:43 AM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by moody cow at 12:43 AM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
While I think the odds of Gorsuch being torpedoed from the right are slim, I wonder what would happen if liberals with lunatic right relatives started sharing "Judge Gorsuch actually seems more liberal than Merrick Garland" opinions. On the one hand, it might inspire some of those right wind relatives to call their senators to block the nomination. In the other hand, it might give cover to the Democrats who just want to make nice with Hair Trump.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:53 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:53 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
With the awful, awful budget and the ever-clearer desire of republicans to destroy people's lives, I have to rate this week as the worst yet. And (as a non-American) my fear has grown this week. I used to regret growing into early middle age, but now I'm thinking that I wish I was older, because I don't want to witness X more decades of motherfuckers pillaging society. But not, now, just that: like others I have started to wonder how much longer modern safety and comfort can be taken for granted. (What follows: well I don't know, it's the end of a long thread, I may not know what I'm saying, I've had a headache all day, I abort the vast majority of my comments.)
I do not understand what motivates these men, and with the parading of impossibly vile people into the public eye by way of Trump's cabinet, I (not being worldly) am beginning to assume that a significant portion of men with any kind of power are sociopathic, utterly uninterested in concepts of "fairness" or "decency", unable to reflect on the totality of the mechanism by which they become wealthy. In one naive theory of business, the Objectivists wanted a world in which there was free exchange of value for value, unencumbered by the hard questions about how any party can rightfully lay claim over another to the earth's resources—and how once any such claims are granted, failing to acknowledge that the necessarily unequal allocation pushes some up and others down—but at least they held that there was one ethic to business: exchanges should be "win-win". The men who now profess to believe in similar ideology will be hard-pressed to say what value they have personally given in proportion to their disproportionate wealth. It seems more likely that they want to stomp on others, they want to take away value, while parading that aging economic banner of "freedom". Having reversed an Obama rule limiting debt collection surcharges, Trump's deplorables give "freedom" back to student debt owners to extract even more money for nothing from parties with whom they exchange no value; if they call themselves libertarians, they are utter cowards hiding under the banner of an ideology which supposedly believes that free economic activity between free people should lift the boats of all parties.
If the appearance of concern for others, or of even just "fair exchange", was ever a limiter on the perverse economic activity of the Trump-style creepazoids, it isn't now, because they discovered that they suffered no harm without the pretension. What is the next "limiter" to be attacked? Like husbands who gaslight, they now experiment with the notion that consensus knowledge, understood to be shared, need no longer be a limiter on the public display of their abusive behavior. What a strange turn when we, without even trying to be rhetorical, see in the president the traits of a man who abuses, with the vagaries of such abuse having easy parallels at a societal level.
It is almost as if the story of capitalism is the story of the progressive loosening of the need for the private lives of bad men to remain private. The bad men are forever breaching new experiments in taking their pathetic need to abuse and dominate into the public realm. Let us think of the children, now: I can't imagine any more satisfying daydream for the young abuser in training who pulls wings off of butterflies and bees—for that vestigial shame to give way, through example, to the possibility of the unfettered public expression of contempt for everyone but himself.
posted by sylvanshine at 1:20 AM on March 19, 2017 [12 favorites]
I do not understand what motivates these men, and with the parading of impossibly vile people into the public eye by way of Trump's cabinet, I (not being worldly) am beginning to assume that a significant portion of men with any kind of power are sociopathic, utterly uninterested in concepts of "fairness" or "decency", unable to reflect on the totality of the mechanism by which they become wealthy. In one naive theory of business, the Objectivists wanted a world in which there was free exchange of value for value, unencumbered by the hard questions about how any party can rightfully lay claim over another to the earth's resources—and how once any such claims are granted, failing to acknowledge that the necessarily unequal allocation pushes some up and others down—but at least they held that there was one ethic to business: exchanges should be "win-win". The men who now profess to believe in similar ideology will be hard-pressed to say what value they have personally given in proportion to their disproportionate wealth. It seems more likely that they want to stomp on others, they want to take away value, while parading that aging economic banner of "freedom". Having reversed an Obama rule limiting debt collection surcharges, Trump's deplorables give "freedom" back to student debt owners to extract even more money for nothing from parties with whom they exchange no value; if they call themselves libertarians, they are utter cowards hiding under the banner of an ideology which supposedly believes that free economic activity between free people should lift the boats of all parties.
If the appearance of concern for others, or of even just "fair exchange", was ever a limiter on the perverse economic activity of the Trump-style creepazoids, it isn't now, because they discovered that they suffered no harm without the pretension. What is the next "limiter" to be attacked? Like husbands who gaslight, they now experiment with the notion that consensus knowledge, understood to be shared, need no longer be a limiter on the public display of their abusive behavior. What a strange turn when we, without even trying to be rhetorical, see in the president the traits of a man who abuses, with the vagaries of such abuse having easy parallels at a societal level.
It is almost as if the story of capitalism is the story of the progressive loosening of the need for the private lives of bad men to remain private. The bad men are forever breaching new experiments in taking their pathetic need to abuse and dominate into the public realm. Let us think of the children, now: I can't imagine any more satisfying daydream for the young abuser in training who pulls wings off of butterflies and bees—for that vestigial shame to give way, through example, to the possibility of the unfettered public expression of contempt for everyone but himself.
posted by sylvanshine at 1:20 AM on March 19, 2017 [12 favorites]
Common wisdom tends to paint the secondhanders as though they were the fair value exchange folks.
posted by infini at 1:30 AM on March 19, 2017
posted by infini at 1:30 AM on March 19, 2017
Trump Budget Cuts Put Struggling Americans on Edge
dj-khaled-congratulations.jpeg
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:32 AM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
dj-khaled-congratulations.jpeg
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:32 AM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
pussy on demand
A website where every time you reload it you get new pictures of kittens
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:52 AM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
A website where every time you reload it you get new pictures of kittens
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:52 AM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
Why is this not a thing
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:56 AM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:56 AM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
New normal:
Church cops? Congregation eyes its own unusual police force
Church cops? Congregation eyes its own unusual police force
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) — Briarwood Presbyterian Church already has more than 4,000 members, two private schools and its own radio station. And if administrators have their way, the wealthy congregation could soon add something that no other American church has: its own police force.posted by Joe in Australia at 1:59 AM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
Washington Post article about a story that's probably getting talked about a lot in Syria, so Americans should at least know about it.
"Whether U.S. drones directly targeted the mosque at al-Jinah, as some allege — or it was instead caught up in a U.S. drone strike in the immediate vicinity — a significant number of civilians died at the scene, according to the White Helmets, local media and casualty monitors,” said Chris Woods, director of Airwars, a Britain-based group that tracks allegations of civilian casualties.posted by OnceUponATime at 2:20 AM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
Church cops? Congregation eyes its own unusual police force
What an absolutely terrible idea. Which, of course, means local GOP will love it.
"You've got to have some presence here," said Jeff Siren, 61, who has worshipped at Briarwood since 1998. "Anyone can wander in here unchallenged at any time."
Isn't that kind of the point of church? Anyone can enter and participate, and the door should never be barred, at least during services. And the parishoners should have at least some minimal level of faith their service would come under divine protection. And the worshippers feeling naked without their guns? That would have been horrifying to the Southern Baptists of my youth.
American conservative Christianity has become something completely unrecognizable to me.
posted by honestcoyote at 2:21 AM on March 19, 2017 [40 favorites]
What an absolutely terrible idea. Which, of course, means local GOP will love it.
"You've got to have some presence here," said Jeff Siren, 61, who has worshipped at Briarwood since 1998. "Anyone can wander in here unchallenged at any time."
Isn't that kind of the point of church? Anyone can enter and participate, and the door should never be barred, at least during services. And the parishoners should have at least some minimal level of faith their service would come under divine protection. And the worshippers feeling naked without their guns? That would have been horrifying to the Southern Baptists of my youth.
American conservative Christianity has become something completely unrecognizable to me.
posted by honestcoyote at 2:21 AM on March 19, 2017 [40 favorites]
Church cops? Congregation eyes its own unusual police force
Honestly, given Donald Trump's inaction, and consequently tacit approval, in response to the ongoing anti-Semitic terrorist attacks against Jewish Community Centers nationwide, the idea of joining an armed Synagogue Militia to patrol the perimeter and ensure the safety of the Congregants is starting to look like the good option.
posted by mikelieman at 3:22 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Honestly, given Donald Trump's inaction, and consequently tacit approval, in response to the ongoing anti-Semitic terrorist attacks against Jewish Community Centers nationwide, the idea of joining an armed Synagogue Militia to patrol the perimeter and ensure the safety of the Congregants is starting to look like the good option.
posted by mikelieman at 3:22 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
No, Germany doesn’t owe America ‘vast sums’ of money for NATO.
On Twitter, former U.S. ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder wrote that increased defense budgets by Germany aren’t transferred to the United States. He also pointed out that NATO decided to make the 2 percent requirement mandatory just a couple of years ago. The alliance gave all member states until 2024 to reach that goal, and Germany is on track.
[...]
But, Germans argue, they make up for this in other ways. As Merkel argued in a speech last month, mutual security goes beyond military spending. International development aid on things like hospitals and schools does as much for peace as warheads in Europe. “When we help people in their home countries to live a better life and thereby prevent crises, this is also a contribution to security,” Merkel said in Munich. “So I will not be drawn into a debate about who is more military-minded and who is less.”
She and other German leaders also point out that they’re bearing the brunt of the Syrian refugee crisis, spending 30 to 40 billion euros a year. If that was included in the tally, they say, they’d be putting more than 2 percent of their budget a year toward security. (They’re also quick to note that U.S. military interventions are one reason there are so many displaced people from the Middle East.)
posted by blub at 3:29 AM on March 19, 2017 [39 favorites]
On Twitter, former U.S. ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder wrote that increased defense budgets by Germany aren’t transferred to the United States. He also pointed out that NATO decided to make the 2 percent requirement mandatory just a couple of years ago. The alliance gave all member states until 2024 to reach that goal, and Germany is on track.
[...]
But, Germans argue, they make up for this in other ways. As Merkel argued in a speech last month, mutual security goes beyond military spending. International development aid on things like hospitals and schools does as much for peace as warheads in Europe. “When we help people in their home countries to live a better life and thereby prevent crises, this is also a contribution to security,” Merkel said in Munich. “So I will not be drawn into a debate about who is more military-minded and who is less.”
She and other German leaders also point out that they’re bearing the brunt of the Syrian refugee crisis, spending 30 to 40 billion euros a year. If that was included in the tally, they say, they’d be putting more than 2 percent of their budget a year toward security. (They’re also quick to note that U.S. military interventions are one reason there are so many displaced people from the Middle East.)
posted by blub at 3:29 AM on March 19, 2017 [39 favorites]
I (not being worldly) am beginning to assume that a significant portion of men with any kind of power are sociopathic, utterly uninterested in concepts of "fairness" or "decency", unable to reflect on the totality of the mechanism by which they become wealthy
And here we have the reason that I rejected the Objectivism I was raised with. I'm a dirty statist because someone has to protect us from these monsters that wear human suits. They're everywhere, and the ones who weren't lucky enough to be born with wealth, or bright enough to work the system to their own financial gain (which doesn't take a genius, just a reasonably intelligent person with no conscience whatsoever) are Trump's base.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:08 AM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
And here we have the reason that I rejected the Objectivism I was raised with. I'm a dirty statist because someone has to protect us from these monsters that wear human suits. They're everywhere, and the ones who weren't lucky enough to be born with wealth, or bright enough to work the system to their own financial gain (which doesn't take a genius, just a reasonably intelligent person with no conscience whatsoever) are Trump's base.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:08 AM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
Church cops?
For a fraction of a second there I thought it was about Chupa Chups.
posted by moody cow at 4:14 AM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
For a fraction of a second there I thought it was about Chupa Chups.
posted by moody cow at 4:14 AM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm dead.
This 5-Year-Old Geography Whiz Expertly Burned Trump On "The Ellen Show"
posted by Room 641-A at 5:19 PM on March 18 [20 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
It's a ways upthread now, but I really recommend scrolling down in the Buzzfeed article to watch the whole 5 minute Ellen segment with the geography kid. He's delightful and it's a pretty life-affirming 5 minutes!
posted by aka burlap at 4:14 AM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
This 5-Year-Old Geography Whiz Expertly Burned Trump On "The Ellen Show"
posted by Room 641-A at 5:19 PM on March 18 [20 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
It's a ways upthread now, but I really recommend scrolling down in the Buzzfeed article to watch the whole 5 minute Ellen segment with the geography kid. He's delightful and it's a pretty life-affirming 5 minutes!
posted by aka burlap at 4:14 AM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
He's delightful and it's a pretty life-affirming 5 minutes!
'This is AWESOME!'
Brilliant
posted by Myeral at 4:42 AM on March 19, 2017
'This is AWESOME!'
Brilliant
posted by Myeral at 4:42 AM on March 19, 2017
Hassan Aden, Former Greenville, NC Chief of Police, detained by CBP at JFK Airport.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:37 AM on March 19, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:37 AM on March 19, 2017 [18 favorites]
Church cops?
This phrase needs some kind of Handmaid's Tale horror flashback warning. Gak.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:48 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
This phrase needs some kind of Handmaid's Tale horror flashback warning. Gak.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:48 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Is Gorsuch a secret liberal?" asked an op-ed in The Hill, a Washington newspaper.
Historically all the supremes tend to get more liberal rather than less once seated. It's one of the funnier parts of watching the right wing try to stack courts.
posted by srboisvert at 5:55 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
Historically all the supremes tend to get more liberal rather than less once seated. It's one of the funnier parts of watching the right wing try to stack courts.
posted by srboisvert at 5:55 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
For Tim Allen, being a non-liberal in Hollywood is like being in 1930s Germany
I can see where Tim Allen, convicted drug dealer, says you have to be careful in Hollywood. You might not get your seventy-four chances at redemption under the 75-strikes-and-your-out rule that Hollywood conservatives are forced to play by.
posted by srboisvert at 6:04 AM on March 19, 2017 [26 favorites]
I can see where Tim Allen, convicted drug dealer, says you have to be careful in Hollywood. You might not get your seventy-four chances at redemption under the 75-strikes-and-your-out rule that Hollywood conservatives are forced to play by.
posted by srboisvert at 6:04 AM on March 19, 2017 [26 favorites]
American conservative Christianity has become something completely unrecognizable to me.
Nah, that's the classic formula. Racist, sexist, profoundly ignorant of bible scholarship, macho violent, snobbish, hateful, and debilitatingly anxious, with fragrant overtones of illegality and blackberry.
Marching as to war.
posted by petebest at 6:05 AM on March 19, 2017 [17 favorites]
Nah, that's the classic formula. Racist, sexist, profoundly ignorant of bible scholarship, macho violent, snobbish, hateful, and debilitatingly anxious, with fragrant overtones of illegality and blackberry.
Marching as to war.
posted by petebest at 6:05 AM on March 19, 2017 [17 favorites]
Ivo Daalder tweet stream educating the us incumbent.
posted by adamvasco at 6:29 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by adamvasco at 6:29 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Church cops
This idea, coupled withthe possibility of the Johnson amendment getting the axe, is pretty scary.
posted by Rykey at 6:37 AM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
This idea, coupled with
posted by Rykey at 6:37 AM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm not that bothered about church cops-- after all shopping malls and universities have had private security for decades. What bothers me more is that they feel nervous about security and their main response seems to be hiring some muscle. If the church feels under threat from the new laws allowing guns in church, why not respond by lobbying for gun control? If they are frightened by their neighbors, why not put more effort into outreach programs? I find it hard to imagine Jesus Christ himself counseling them to hire guards but I know American Christians of a certain flavor don't seem to care much about being Christ-like.
I see Ted Lieu is going to be on Real Time next week. I'll have to watch the show even though Bill Mahr pisses me off. Louise Mensch will be on as well.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:04 AM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
I see Ted Lieu is going to be on Real Time next week. I'll have to watch the show even though Bill Mahr pisses me off. Louise Mensch will be on as well.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:04 AM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
Church cops? Congregation eyes its own unusual police force
but, but, SHARIA LAW
posted by photoslob at 7:08 AM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
but, but, SHARIA LAW
posted by photoslob at 7:08 AM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
While I think the odds of Gorsuch being torpedoed from the right are slim, I wonder what would happen if liberals with lunatic right relatives started sharing "Judge Gorsuch actually seems more liberal than Merrick Garland" opinions. On the one hand, it might inspire some of those right wind relatives to call their senators to block the nomination. In the other hand, it might give cover to the Democrats who just want to make nice with Hair Trump.
With that and maybe Chuck Schumer throwing in a little speech about Gorsuch moderating a notoriously liberal Supreme Court, I'm sure we can count on about half of Democrats in the Senate voting to confirm him.
posted by indubitable at 7:17 AM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
With that and maybe Chuck Schumer throwing in a little speech about Gorsuch moderating a notoriously liberal Supreme Court, I'm sure we can count on about half of Democrats in the Senate voting to confirm him.
posted by indubitable at 7:17 AM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yesterday I was "treated" to several minutes of uncut Richard Spender on NPR. His interviewer was black and becoming increasingly agitated but I felt no empathy or sympathy; shitheads like Spencer do not deserve even five seconds of play on NPR or any other media outlet. When will these assholes at NPR learn that freedom of speech, the press, and the responsibilities of the fourth estate do not include giving a platform to every wrongheaded bullshit idea a man or woman can opine upon? White nationalism and climate change denial are two topics I would like to see banned from NPR forever, and until they stop giving these assholes air time they're not getting any money from me.
posted by xyzzy at 7:21 AM on March 19, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 7:21 AM on March 19, 2017 [45 favorites]
White nationalism and climate change denial are two topics I would like to see banned from NPR forever, and until they stop giving these assholes air time they're not getting any money from me.
NPR's already sitting in the Credibility Airlock, the button's just waiting to be pushed to eject them into the cold vacuum of Collaborator Space forever to join Wikileaks and CNN, and they're still happily chatting with fascists.
I'd hit that button.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:30 AM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
NPR's already sitting in the Credibility Airlock, the button's just waiting to be pushed to eject them into the cold vacuum of Collaborator Space forever to join Wikileaks and CNN, and they're still happily chatting with fascists.
I'd hit that button.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:30 AM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
Cute tricks that would only work on particularly poorly-written episodes of The West Wing are not a great way to resist fascism.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:34 AM on March 19, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 7:34 AM on March 19, 2017 [20 favorites]
Won't happen. Arlen Specter is an ex-republican, ex-senator, and ex-living being.
posted by cmfletcher at 7:38 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by cmfletcher at 7:38 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
The name "Arlen Specter" is sort of my pet name for all evil right wing senators.
Works for me.
spec·ter (ˈspektər) - noun
1) a ghost.
2) something widely feared as a possible unpleasant or dangerous occurrence.
posted by chris24 at 7:42 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Works for me.
spec·ter (ˈspektər) - noun
1) a ghost.
2) something widely feared as a possible unpleasant or dangerous occurrence.
posted by chris24 at 7:42 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
I did order a box of 100 women in science postcards for when I want to send postcards to my elected representatives.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:24 PM on March 18
Oooh nice. Ordered and already composing messages in my head. P. Ryan gets the first one.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:54 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:24 PM on March 18
Oooh nice. Ordered and already composing messages in my head. P. Ryan gets the first one.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:54 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean, I disagreed with Arlen Specter about a lot of things, but he seems like a weird person to use as a stand-in for right-wing evilness. He was drummed out of the Republican party for being the last of the moderate Republicans.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:55 AM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:55 AM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
NPR's already sitting in the Credibility Airlock, the button's just waiting to be pushed to eject them into the cold vacuum of Collaborator Space forever to join Wikileaks and CNN, and they're still happily chatting with fascists.
I'd hit that button.
Yeah, I'll still listen to Terri Gross, Chris Thile, SciFri, etc. (and the latter two are APR and PRI anyhow) if they're on when I'm in the car, but the NPR news division is dead to me. If the CPB goes under, NPR will have only itself to blame.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:58 AM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'd hit that button.
Yeah, I'll still listen to Terri Gross, Chris Thile, SciFri, etc. (and the latter two are APR and PRI anyhow) if they're on when I'm in the car, but the NPR news division is dead to me. If the CPB goes under, NPR will have only itself to blame.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:58 AM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
Tomorrow March 20th is the last day to register to vote in the April 18th special GA-06 election to replace Tom Price. If you live in GA-06 or know someone who does, you can register here.
It's a tough place to win - Price won it by 23 points as did Romney in 2012 - but Trump only took the district by 1 point. So it's not that damaging if Ds lose, but would send a huge message to congressional Rs if Ds win.
You can find out more about the Dems best shot Jon Ossoff and donate if you want at ElectJon.com
posted by chris24 at 8:08 AM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's a tough place to win - Price won it by 23 points as did Romney in 2012 - but Trump only took the district by 1 point. So it's not that damaging if Ds lose, but would send a huge message to congressional Rs if Ds win.
You can find out more about the Dems best shot Jon Ossoff and donate if you want at ElectJon.com
posted by chris24 at 8:08 AM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
When it comes to postcards, just as an FYI for everyone, the post office sells blank pre-stamped postcards without images on the front or back. I believe it was $35 for 100 postcards.
They're not available online (weirdly), but the woman at my local post office knew exactly what I was asking for when I went in.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:12 AM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
They're not available online (weirdly), but the woman at my local post office knew exactly what I was asking for when I went in.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:12 AM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
From the TPM "vote him out" link:
Though he defended Republicans' legislation to repeal and replace Obamacare, he did take issue with some proposals in President Donald Trump's budget blueprint. Sessions said that he would like to save funding for the National Institutes of Health and programs like Meals on Wheels, according to the Texas Tribune.
Sad that this seems slightly more moderate than the alternative.
That's the Overton window shifting right there. "Equally bad" and all that.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:21 AM on March 19, 2017
Though he defended Republicans' legislation to repeal and replace Obamacare, he did take issue with some proposals in President Donald Trump's budget blueprint. Sessions said that he would like to save funding for the National Institutes of Health and programs like Meals on Wheels, according to the Texas Tribune.
Sad that this seems slightly more moderate than the alternative.
That's the Overton window shifting right there. "Equally bad" and all that.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:21 AM on March 19, 2017
With that and maybe Chuck Schumer throwing in a little speech about Gorsuch moderating a notoriously liberal Supreme Court, I'm sure we can count on about half of Democrats in the Senate voting to confirm him.
His floor seems to be about 70 votes to confirm. Their total and immediate betrayal and utter cowardice is truly breathtaking even knowing they would betray us from the beginning.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:27 AM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
His floor seems to be about 70 votes to confirm. Their total and immediate betrayal and utter cowardice is truly breathtaking even knowing they would betray us from the beginning.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:27 AM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
spitbull: "Arlen Specter
Whoops I meant Orrin Hatch. The name "Arlen Specter" is sort of my pet name for all evil right wing senators."
That's more than a little misplaced. Specter wasn't exactly a progressive hero but he had a pretty middle of the road voting record and ended up leaving the republican party because he said that they'd moved too far right for him.
posted by octothorpe at 8:32 AM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
Whoops I meant Orrin Hatch. The name "Arlen Specter" is sort of my pet name for all evil right wing senators."
That's more than a little misplaced. Specter wasn't exactly a progressive hero but he had a pretty middle of the road voting record and ended up leaving the republican party because he said that they'd moved too far right for him.
posted by octothorpe at 8:32 AM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
InfoWarzel Vol. IV: Snowflakes And Fair-weather Trolls
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:33 AM on March 19, 2017
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:33 AM on March 19, 2017
Yeah, I'll still listen to Terri Gross, Chris Thile, SciFri, etc. (and the latter two are APR and PRI anyhow) if they're on when I'm in the car, but the NPR news division is dead to me. If the CPB goes under, NPR will have only itself to blame.
It's not like you get these without those. It is one system that supports them all.
NPR is intentionally middle-of-the-road in its coverage (has to be), but it is an extremely responsible, closely vetted news source with open accountability for its content and it's something we should continue to value and support. They would be interested in your points of view about who and what to air, but they will refer to other journalistic responsibilities and constituencies as well. I value this about them. They are one of our strongest and best-resourced news sources, capable of the kind of ongoing intensive on-the-ground coverage no video unit can offer because it's too costly, and has excellent reporters. I can't imagine the fate of this country without NPR News and the NPR affiliate network (which would also disappear, leaving very few stations to carry PRI and APR shows at all). I know many people are comfortable throwing them under the bus, but even thought I rant and rage at moments like those mentioned, I would never advocate for their dissolution. The "puff piece" aired was a profile based on an overtly critical article, and though I despise KEllyanne Conway I do want to read articles on her and hear what she is saying: the New Yorker has done in-depth profiles and analysis on her, too. As the NYTimes also regularly does.
It's not possible for me to square any value of "informed person" with the idea of only listening to coverage that aligns perfectly with my individual point of view, and I think those of us on the left would be the poorer for insisting on that. I want to know what ideas are in circulation. I want to know who has power and and how different people view those individuals differently. I want to know what the various conservative positions that are gaining and waning are. Sometimes assholes make news and sometimes journalists have to talk to assholes to know what is going on; they are aware of this when they enter the profession and they have good tools for managing it. Listening to and reading their work is the only way I know to be well-informed. When I want a news source that puts my views at the center of the world, I know where to go for those. I appreciate that the more centrist sources exist and do some of our best and most consistent journalistic work, creating the raw material for our personal analyses. In light of the recent study on news sources and political polarization by the Columbia Journalism Review in collaboration with the Berkman Center, it is more clear to me than ever that the ability to take in and process news from a range of points of view is not weak, but instead a characteristic primarily of the liberal mind, as opposed to the closed-loop intake of conservatives. I would never want to give that up nor assert that it should be unavailable to the American public.
posted by Miko at 8:52 AM on March 19, 2017 [37 favorites]
It's not like you get these without those. It is one system that supports them all.
NPR is intentionally middle-of-the-road in its coverage (has to be), but it is an extremely responsible, closely vetted news source with open accountability for its content and it's something we should continue to value and support. They would be interested in your points of view about who and what to air, but they will refer to other journalistic responsibilities and constituencies as well. I value this about them. They are one of our strongest and best-resourced news sources, capable of the kind of ongoing intensive on-the-ground coverage no video unit can offer because it's too costly, and has excellent reporters. I can't imagine the fate of this country without NPR News and the NPR affiliate network (which would also disappear, leaving very few stations to carry PRI and APR shows at all). I know many people are comfortable throwing them under the bus, but even thought I rant and rage at moments like those mentioned, I would never advocate for their dissolution. The "puff piece" aired was a profile based on an overtly critical article, and though I despise KEllyanne Conway I do want to read articles on her and hear what she is saying: the New Yorker has done in-depth profiles and analysis on her, too. As the NYTimes also regularly does.
It's not possible for me to square any value of "informed person" with the idea of only listening to coverage that aligns perfectly with my individual point of view, and I think those of us on the left would be the poorer for insisting on that. I want to know what ideas are in circulation. I want to know who has power and and how different people view those individuals differently. I want to know what the various conservative positions that are gaining and waning are. Sometimes assholes make news and sometimes journalists have to talk to assholes to know what is going on; they are aware of this when they enter the profession and they have good tools for managing it. Listening to and reading their work is the only way I know to be well-informed. When I want a news source that puts my views at the center of the world, I know where to go for those. I appreciate that the more centrist sources exist and do some of our best and most consistent journalistic work, creating the raw material for our personal analyses. In light of the recent study on news sources and political polarization by the Columbia Journalism Review in collaboration with the Berkman Center, it is more clear to me than ever that the ability to take in and process news from a range of points of view is not weak, but instead a characteristic primarily of the liberal mind, as opposed to the closed-loop intake of conservatives. I would never want to give that up nor assert that it should be unavailable to the American public.
posted by Miko at 8:52 AM on March 19, 2017 [37 favorites]
It's not possible for me to square any value of "informed person" with the idea of only listening to coverage that aligns perfectly with my individual point of view
Nobody is critiquing NPR for not agreeing with their views. They do it because NPR regularly lets the wild assertions Republicans make pass for facts with no push back or follow up.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:17 AM on March 19, 2017 [50 favorites]
Nobody is critiquing NPR for not agreeing with their views. They do it because NPR regularly lets the wild assertions Republicans make pass for facts with no push back or follow up.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:17 AM on March 19, 2017 [50 favorites]
I want to know what ideas are in circulation.There is a vast gulf between reporting on the alt-right/Nazis and interviewing an actual Nazi. Ditto on reporting on the effects of climate change denial vs. interviewing actual denialists.
posted by xyzzy at 9:21 AM on March 19, 2017 [20 favorites]
Mulvaney is vying to lead this Parade of Horribles.
"The only way to get truly universal care is to throw people in jail if they don't have it," he said on CBS's "Face The Nation." "And we are not going to do that."
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:24 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
"The only way to get truly universal care is to throw people in jail if they don't have it," he said on CBS's "Face The Nation." "And we are not going to do that."
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:24 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
More garbage people emboldened by our terrible president:
A California waiter refused to serve 4 Latina women until he saw ‘proof of residency’
posted by porn in the woods at 9:27 AM on March 19, 2017 [29 favorites]
A California waiter refused to serve 4 Latina women until he saw ‘proof of residency’
posted by porn in the woods at 9:27 AM on March 19, 2017 [29 favorites]
Specter wasn't exactly a progressive hero but he had a pretty middle of the road voting record...
If I recall correctly, I felt the same way about Specter for quite some time, but it eventually became apparent that his grandstanding as a moderate, reasonable Republican never applied to votes that actually affected outcomes. His entry in the Balloon Juice lexicon was thoroughly earned.
In the end, I'll give him some small credit for the deathbed (of his political career) conversion, but that doesn't make up for the years of enabling, normalizing, and legitimizing the worst impulses of the Republican Id. I think future historians will find in Specter a useful synecdoche for the fig leaf wing of the Republican party that abandoned the field to an openly authoritarian faction, with no more than a flourish of symbolic resistance.
Similar support from current "moderate" Republicans is of course still welcome, but it wasn't enough then, and the stakes are higher now. Anybody wanting a better epitaph than "repentant quisling" is going to need to do much more than take their toys and go home.
posted by dirge at 9:29 AM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
If I recall correctly, I felt the same way about Specter for quite some time, but it eventually became apparent that his grandstanding as a moderate, reasonable Republican never applied to votes that actually affected outcomes. His entry in the Balloon Juice lexicon was thoroughly earned.
Spectering (verb)- Firmly standing by one’s principles until it matters, and then dropping them like a prom dress. Less often seen since the eponymous Senator switched to a party more in line with his (genuine) principles.(Not endorsing the gendered imagery; just noting that the behavior was consistent enough to get his name verbed.)
In the end, I'll give him some small credit for the deathbed (of his political career) conversion, but that doesn't make up for the years of enabling, normalizing, and legitimizing the worst impulses of the Republican Id. I think future historians will find in Specter a useful synecdoche for the fig leaf wing of the Republican party that abandoned the field to an openly authoritarian faction, with no more than a flourish of symbolic resistance.
Similar support from current "moderate" Republicans is of course still welcome, but it wasn't enough then, and the stakes are higher now. Anybody wanting a better epitaph than "repentant quisling" is going to need to do much more than take their toys and go home.
posted by dirge at 9:29 AM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
"The only way to get truly universal care is to throw people in jail if they don't have it," he said on CBS's "Face The Nation." "And we are not going to do that."
What? So in his mind he'll go to the "debtors prison for poor who can't afford insurance" option before the public option? THESE PEOPLE ARE BROKEN.
posted by dis_integration at 9:32 AM on March 19, 2017 [39 favorites]
What? So in his mind he'll go to the "debtors prison for poor who can't afford insurance" option before the public option? THESE PEOPLE ARE BROKEN.
posted by dis_integration at 9:32 AM on March 19, 2017 [39 favorites]
Nate was showing off a world map he’d drawn, pointing out the different Nate was showing off a world map he’d drawn, pointing out the different countries and continents, and what lived on each — a penguin on Antarctica, a tiger for Africa, and so on.
That’s when Degeneres pointed to Russia, and asked what was standing on it.
Just more fake news. Sad!
posted by Rumple at 9:36 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
That’s when Degeneres pointed to Russia, and asked what was standing on it.
Just more fake news. Sad!
posted by Rumple at 9:36 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
"The only way to get truly universal care is to throw people in jail if they don't have it," he said on CBS's "Face The Nation."
That isn't even true if you can imagine a country with single payer healthcare.
posted by puddledork at 9:47 AM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
That isn't even true if you can imagine a country with single payer healthcare.
posted by puddledork at 9:47 AM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think he is deliberately eliding the distinction between universal *access* to healthcare and universal *use* of healthcare, which seems to be the new Republican strategy here. They're just going to pretend that people who choose not to spend 2/3rds of their annual income on insurance are making a choice to forgo healthcare. Republicans believe in choice! Why don't other people respect people's right to make their own choices about whether they use healthcare?
It's grotesque, but that's how they seem to be playing it. At Joni Ernst's townhall on Friday, she responded to a question about estimates of people who would lose their health insurance by saying that many of them would be people who would "choose not to engage in healthcare," as if that's just a neutral choice like choosing not to engage in getting a tattoo or something.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:53 AM on March 19, 2017 [31 favorites]
It's grotesque, but that's how they seem to be playing it. At Joni Ernst's townhall on Friday, she responded to a question about estimates of people who would lose their health insurance by saying that many of them would be people who would "choose not to engage in healthcare," as if that's just a neutral choice like choosing not to engage in getting a tattoo or something.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:53 AM on March 19, 2017 [31 favorites]
ETA: and it's true that there's no way to force people to use healthcare, which is ok. People do have a right to choose to forgo treatment. But that's very different from not having access.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:54 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:54 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yesterday I was "treated" to several minutes of uncut Richard Spender on NPR. His interviewer was black and becoming increasingly agitated but I felt no empathy or sympathy
Was it this Reveal episode? If so, the story has no relationship to the NPR news reporting team--the podcast is produced by the Center for Investigative Reporting, and then aired by your local NPR station.
posted by damayanti at 9:55 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
Was it this Reveal episode? If so, the story has no relationship to the NPR news reporting team--the podcast is produced by the Center for Investigative Reporting, and then aired by your local NPR station.
posted by damayanti at 9:55 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
"The only way to get truly universal care is to throw people in jail if they don't have it," he said on CBS's "Face The Nation." "And we are not going to do that."
No. It's not universal care because prisons have copays you fucking ignroant, monstrous ghoul.
posted by Talez at 10:04 AM on March 19, 2017 [23 favorites]
No. It's not universal care because prisons have copays you fucking ignroant, monstrous ghoul.
posted by Talez at 10:04 AM on March 19, 2017 [23 favorites]
They're just going to pretend that people who choose not to spend 2/3rds of their annual income on insurance are making a choice to forgo healthcare.
We should emphasize the cruelty of this. We could point out that they likely think people who "choose" to work for $10 an hour are stupid, because they'd be better off if they'd "chosen" a $50 an hour job.
posted by puddledork at 10:12 AM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
We should emphasize the cruelty of this. We could point out that they likely think people who "choose" to work for $10 an hour are stupid, because they'd be better off if they'd "chosen" a $50 an hour job.
posted by puddledork at 10:12 AM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's not about access to health care, it's about use of health care and health outcomes. Because those things are in no way related.
They don't even realize they're making the argument for the creation of an American National Health System.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:13 AM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
They don't even realize they're making the argument for the creation of an American National Health System.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:13 AM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
There is a vast gulf between reporting on the alt-right/Nazis and interviewing an actual Nazi. Ditto on reporting on the effects of climate change denial vs. interviewing actual denialists.
The difference is that I can hear directly what these people are saying, instead of relying on the filter of journalism to represent it accurately; I am also more confident in my assertions about their personal accountability because I have heard them representing their own views in person.
posted by Miko at 10:15 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
The difference is that I can hear directly what these people are saying, instead of relying on the filter of journalism to represent it accurately; I am also more confident in my assertions about their personal accountability because I have heard them representing their own views in person.
posted by Miko at 10:15 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's grotesque, but that's how they seem to be playing it. At Joni Ernst's townhall on Friday, she responded to a question about estimates of people who would lose their health insurance by saying that many of them would be people who would "choose not to engage in healthcare," as if that's just a neutral choice like choosing not to engage in getting a tattoo or something.
Every time I am reminded that Jodi Ernst succeeded Tom Harkin, I cry inside a little bit. She, Grassley, and King are in some sort secret contest to see who can be the worst person to represent that state.
Also, this is a daily reminder: Fuck Joe Lieberman. We could have had buy-in to Medicare if not for him.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:30 AM on March 19, 2017 [24 favorites]
Every time I am reminded that Jodi Ernst succeeded Tom Harkin, I cry inside a little bit. She, Grassley, and King are in some sort secret contest to see who can be the worst person to represent that state.
Also, this is a daily reminder: Fuck Joe Lieberman. We could have had buy-in to Medicare if not for him.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:30 AM on March 19, 2017 [24 favorites]
What passes for "liberal" commentary rarely approaches even Elizabeth Warren-level critique or passion.
Because nobody cares what some raving commie lunatic has to say. Nobody would care what a raving fascist lunatic would have to say either except people keep electing them.
posted by Talez at 10:35 AM on March 19, 2017
Because nobody cares what some raving commie lunatic has to say. Nobody would care what a raving fascist lunatic would have to say either except people keep electing them.
posted by Talez at 10:35 AM on March 19, 2017
Not really. I'm saying the solution to fucking lunatics on the right isn't to bring in the fucking lunatics of the left to counterblanace. In an ideal world neither side's lunatics would be given any credence. It's just hard to ignore lunatics with actual power.
posted by Talez at 10:41 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 10:41 AM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm saying the solution to fucking lunatics on the right isn't to bring in the fucking lunatics of the left to counterblanace. In an ideal world neither side's lunatics would be given any credence. It's just hard to ignore lunatics with actual power.
This ignores the argument that right wing lunatics partially came to power because they were normalized with this kind of unbalanced coverage.
Did everyone suddenly forget about the Overton window? This, combined with the media's increasingly strained efforts to avoid calling lies "lies," makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:46 AM on March 19, 2017 [37 favorites]
This ignores the argument that right wing lunatics partially came to power because they were normalized with this kind of unbalanced coverage.
Did everyone suddenly forget about the Overton window? This, combined with the media's increasingly strained efforts to avoid calling lies "lies," makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:46 AM on March 19, 2017 [37 favorites]
This, combined with the media's increasingly strained efforts to avoid calling lies "lies," makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
The moment you call Donald J. Trump a liar, 18 USC 1001 suddenly becomes a real thing, and it's like a week until impeachment. If there's one thing Republicans are good at, it's cognitive dissonance, and denial...
posted by mikelieman at 10:49 AM on March 19, 2017
The moment you call Donald J. Trump a liar, 18 USC 1001 suddenly becomes a real thing, and it's like a week until impeachment. If there's one thing Republicans are good at, it's cognitive dissonance, and denial...
posted by mikelieman at 10:49 AM on March 19, 2017
Trump approval ratings at stunning lows:
* Latest Gallup (3/18): Disapprove 58 / Approve 37 | (- 21)
* 538 poll average (3/17): Disapprove 51.5 / Approve 42.7 | (- 8.8)
Both show him cruising around at "lousy" for a while, then falling off a cliff when the ACHA hit the streets.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:51 AM on March 19, 2017 [21 favorites]
* Latest Gallup (3/18): Disapprove 58 / Approve 37 | (- 21)
* 538 poll average (3/17): Disapprove 51.5 / Approve 42.7 | (- 8.8)
Both show him cruising around at "lousy" for a while, then falling off a cliff when the ACHA hit the streets.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:51 AM on March 19, 2017 [21 favorites]
Trump Sued over the Real Amount of His Personal Debts
I'm sure how valid this suit is, but anything puts "Trump sued" in the headlines and distracts his legal team for a few hours is okay with me.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:57 AM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm sure how valid this suit is, but anything puts "Trump sued" in the headlines and distracts his legal team for a few hours is okay with me.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:57 AM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
i wonder if there is any disapproval number high enough for congressional republicans to see him as a liability
posted by murphy slaw at 10:59 AM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 10:59 AM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sometimes I forget, for a moment, how angry I am about the election, and then it comes crashing through again, like some sort of deranged Kool-Aid man who won't leave me alone. It's a lot like grief, except that it burns.
I don't think I'll ever forgive any of the people who had anything to do with this fucking travesty. This slow motion assault.
They have killed something. This country was never perfect, and was often monstrous, but we always had a dream of something better. That's what they've killed, for me.
It is very good for them that I am relatively powerless.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:59 AM on March 19, 2017 [67 favorites]
I don't think I'll ever forgive any of the people who had anything to do with this fucking travesty. This slow motion assault.
They have killed something. This country was never perfect, and was often monstrous, but we always had a dream of something better. That's what they've killed, for me.
It is very good for them that I am relatively powerless.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:59 AM on March 19, 2017 [67 favorites]
It is very good for them that I am relatively powerless.
for real, every day since the election i thank god that i am not a pyrokinetic
posted by murphy slaw at 11:00 AM on March 19, 2017 [18 favorites]
for real, every day since the election i thank god that i am not a pyrokinetic
posted by murphy slaw at 11:00 AM on March 19, 2017 [18 favorites]
Not really.
The risk of sarcasm is that you're taken at face value.
NPR and PBS were ruined 10 years ago by Ken Tomlinson. They're kinda lefty, in a caricatured way, but they're mostly simply broken and have lost their agency and mission. They can't be criticized in terms of left/right, because their operating environment is essentially a double-bind and does not allow sanity to ever prevail with respect to any political perspective.
posted by rhizome at 11:03 AM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
The risk of sarcasm is that you're taken at face value.
NPR and PBS were ruined 10 years ago by Ken Tomlinson. They're kinda lefty, in a caricatured way, but they're mostly simply broken and have lost their agency and mission. They can't be criticized in terms of left/right, because their operating environment is essentially a double-bind and does not allow sanity to ever prevail with respect to any political perspective.
posted by rhizome at 11:03 AM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
I feel like if I was Galadriel I'd be like "lemme just borrow that for a hot minute, I have a list"
posted by schadenfrau at 11:03 AM on March 19, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 11:03 AM on March 19, 2017 [19 favorites]
Philadelphia's Largest Cinco de Mayo Celebration Canceled in Fear of Immigration Crackdown
posted by futz at 11:30 AM on March 19, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by futz at 11:30 AM on March 19, 2017 [8 favorites]
I noticed in my Facebook feed that a lot of otherwise conservative people were very supportive of Standing Rock, like my relatives who were hippies in the 60s and love motorcycles (especially Harley Davidson) but have become brainwashed by Fox news. There really was a lot of interest in Standing Rock, and I'm surprised it didn't get more attention in the mainstream media. Pretty much everything I knew about Standing Rock I knew about because of Facebook.
posted by maggiemaggie at 11:37 AM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by maggiemaggie at 11:37 AM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: AHCA: A political disaster, a substantive outrage
President Trump is having no success selling the American Health Care Act to voters, according to a new Huffington Post/YouGov poll:posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:42 AM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]The public opposes the bill released by House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) and backed by President Donald Trump by a 21-point margin ― 45 percent to 24 percent ― according to the survey, with 31 percent unsure.
The GOP plan also is on the wrong side of a significant gap in intensity, with just 5 percent strongly favoring the bill, and 32 percent strongly opposed.
NPR is intentionally middle-of-the-road in its coverage (has to be)
Disagree with both. They are Republican apologists and have been since late Reagan. (NPR News is the only part I'm referring to). Some of that could be dismissed as adherence to norms of the time but Bush II broke that, and broke them. Their complicity in all of that administration's outrages including torture, ubiquitous and warrantless surveillance, and the sale of Iraq War II was it. Fuckers.
This banal waggly-handed Trump burbling just continues the embarrassment. Just go to dead air already; have some grace or mercy or something. FFS.
posted by petebest at 11:47 AM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
Disagree with both. They are Republican apologists and have been since late Reagan. (NPR News is the only part I'm referring to). Some of that could be dismissed as adherence to norms of the time but Bush II broke that, and broke them. Their complicity in all of that administration's outrages including torture, ubiquitous and warrantless surveillance, and the sale of Iraq War II was it. Fuckers.
This banal waggly-handed Trump burbling just continues the embarrassment. Just go to dead air already; have some grace or mercy or something. FFS.
posted by petebest at 11:47 AM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
The failure katamari rolls on!
posted by schadenfrau at 11:47 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 11:47 AM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
I look at that Gallup approval chart and wonder where to find the 3% of Americans who finally decided to start disapproving of Trump in the last week. How do we get them to vote for fucking democrats?
Also I feel that there should be some kind of small ritual celebration every time his lowest-yet approval rating comes out. Like a special Trump Failure Muffin recipe or something.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:51 AM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
Also I feel that there should be some kind of small ritual celebration every time his lowest-yet approval rating comes out. Like a special Trump Failure Muffin recipe or something.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:51 AM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
Israel threatens to destroy Syrian air defenses
Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman has warned Syria that Israel will destroy its air defense system if Syria fires an anti-aircraft missile at Israeli aircraft again.
Speaking on Israel public radio Sunday morning, Liberman said, "The next time the Syrians use their air defense systems against our airplanes, we will destroy all of them without thinking twice."
His threat comes after Syria fired anti-aircraft missiles at Israeli military jets overnight Thursday into Friday.
posted by futz at 12:43 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman has warned Syria that Israel will destroy its air defense system if Syria fires an anti-aircraft missile at Israeli aircraft again.
Speaking on Israel public radio Sunday morning, Liberman said, "The next time the Syrians use their air defense systems against our airplanes, we will destroy all of them without thinking twice."
His threat comes after Syria fired anti-aircraft missiles at Israeli military jets overnight Thursday into Friday.
posted by futz at 12:43 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh, good, I really look forward to Trump's intelligent, thoughtful analysis on this situation.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:46 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:46 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman has warned Syria that Israel will destroy its air defense system if Syria fires an anti-aircraft missile at Israeli aircraft again.
Speaking on Israel public radio Sunday morning, Liberman said, "The next time the Syrians use their air defense systems against our airplanes, we will destroy all of them without thinking twice."
haha ok buddy. if they could actually do that, they'd just do it, but Syria has a fairly new Russian air defense system, so this guy has to content himself with bellowing about it to the media.
posted by indubitable at 12:55 PM on March 19, 2017
Speaking on Israel public radio Sunday morning, Liberman said, "The next time the Syrians use their air defense systems against our airplanes, we will destroy all of them without thinking twice."
haha ok buddy. if they could actually do that, they'd just do it, but Syria has a fairly new Russian air defense system, so this guy has to content himself with bellowing about it to the media.
posted by indubitable at 12:55 PM on March 19, 2017
Yeah, I can't think of that as anything other than it being more acceptable to be a blowhard these days.
posted by rhizome at 12:57 PM on March 19, 2017
posted by rhizome at 12:57 PM on March 19, 2017
If Trump were a normal right wing militarist, he'd be rattling sabers at Assad on Isreal's behalf now, right? But Putin wouldn't approve of that. So which way will Trump jump? Are the conventional Republican hardliners going to throw a fit of Trump doesn't take Israel's side? Would Netanyahu stop sucking up to Trump? This is a hell of a soap opera.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:03 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:03 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
Russian owned and operated, Ian the it? I seem to remember that being a sticking point when a no-fly zone was being discussed (ha ha).
posted by Artw at 1:05 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 1:05 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Why does Israel have carte blanche to bomb inside Syria? I know nobody stops them from regularly bombing Lebanon, but is Israel permitted by law or treaty to just bomb anywhere they've decided is a threat, with no oversight?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:29 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:29 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
You think there are laws now?
posted by Artw at 1:31 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:31 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why does Israel have carte blanche to bomb inside Syria?
Officially Israel and Syria have been at war since 1948.
posted by PenDevil at 1:35 PM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
Officially Israel and Syria have been at war since 1948.
posted by PenDevil at 1:35 PM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
President Trump surprises supporters with invite to Mar-a-Lago
A small group had lined up on Bingham Island with signs and flags.
"We waved to him, the cars went by really fast, and we were just sitting down talking about the events of the day," said Valeria Bianco.
The long-time Trump supporter said no one expected what happened next.
Bianco said a member of the President's team came back, "And invited us to go to Mar-a-Lago," she said. "To get into a secret service van, get checked out, and go to Mar-a-Lago."
Here are some photos of their visit with trump.
posted by futz at 1:44 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
A small group had lined up on Bingham Island with signs and flags.
"We waved to him, the cars went by really fast, and we were just sitting down talking about the events of the day," said Valeria Bianco.
The long-time Trump supporter said no one expected what happened next.
Bianco said a member of the President's team came back, "And invited us to go to Mar-a-Lago," she said. "To get into a secret service van, get checked out, and go to Mar-a-Lago."
Here are some photos of their visit with trump.
posted by futz at 1:44 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
A small group had lined up on Bingham Island with signs and flags.
Me: "I shouldn't pre-judge them, there's no way to know what they look like without—"
[opens link]
Me: "ok fine"
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:49 PM on March 19, 2017 [34 favorites]
Me: "I shouldn't pre-judge them, there's no way to know what they look like without—"
[opens link]
Me: "ok fine"
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:49 PM on March 19, 2017 [34 favorites]
Here are some photos of their visit with trump.
I'm speechless. I am without speech.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm speechless. I am without speech.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
The long-time Trump supporter said no one expected what happened next.
It's like the a President of the United States on Spring Break and he's writing a letter to Penthouse about it.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:00 PM on March 19, 2017 [36 favorites]
It's like the a President of the United States on Spring Break and he's writing a letter to Penthouse about it.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:00 PM on March 19, 2017 [36 favorites]
My eyes. They have rolled so far back in my head, that I am perusing bits of my mind palace, rather than facing the reality of our Lecher in Chief.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:08 PM on March 19, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:08 PM on March 19, 2017 [10 favorites]
So... what happens when he gets gropey while in office and fails to keep a lid on it?
posted by Artw at 2:10 PM on March 19, 2017
posted by Artw at 2:10 PM on March 19, 2017
So... what happens when he gets gropey while in office and fails to keep a lid on it?
Absolutely nothing. It's just perfectly normal locker-room groping.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:12 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
Absolutely nothing. It's just perfectly normal locker-room groping.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:12 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
It wouldn't take much to set him up...I'm just saying.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:13 PM on March 19, 2017
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:13 PM on March 19, 2017
Yeah, I don't know why you'd even ask the question. We've already heard loud and clear that norms and rules do not apply to this man in the eyes of his base. He can and will act in ways counter to every claimed value (even creepy ones like how "respect for women" is often made so creepy in conservative circles) and they do not care. As long as he's being mean to liberals, nothing he does is a problem.
I fully expect that if a news organization tried to drop a sexual harassment scandal on him he'd just smirk and say she wanted it and his base would lap it up.
posted by tocts at 2:16 PM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
I fully expect that if a news organization tried to drop a sexual harassment scandal on him he'd just smirk and say she wanted it and his base would lap it up.
posted by tocts at 2:16 PM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sigh. Who had "flat-earth truthers" in the 'WTF Is Happening?' office pool?
Shaq believes the Earth is flat and his explanation is bonkers
Shaq believes the Earth is flat and his explanation is bonkers
Yet another NBA star (well, former star in this case) has come out as a flat earther, and this time it’s legendary big man Shaquille O’Neal. Shaq joins Kyrie Irving, Draymond Green, and Wilson Chandler as open proponents of the flat earth theory. They are all incorrect.posted by Room 641-A at 2:16 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
All this talk of katamari makes me hungry for sushi.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:19 PM on March 19, 2017
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:19 PM on March 19, 2017
All this talk of katamari makes me angry that people are comparing the noble katamari to anything related to the right-wing clusterfuck that is the Trump administration.
The King of All Cosmos would have some cryptically belittling words to say about this shit, if asked.
posted by tocts at 2:21 PM on March 19, 2017 [15 favorites]
The King of All Cosmos would have some cryptically belittling words to say about this shit, if asked.
posted by tocts at 2:21 PM on March 19, 2017 [15 favorites]
CBP put out their specifications for border wall proposals. One of the requirements is "The north side of wall (i.e. U.S. facing side) shall be aesthetically pleasing in color, anti-climb texture, etc., to be consistent with general surrounding environment." It says nothing about what the south side has to look like.
posted by zachlipton at 2:31 PM on March 19, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:31 PM on March 19, 2017 [10 favorites]
I know that it is unlikely to happen because greed, but wouldn't it be fantastic if no company in the US would touch this stupid damn wall at all? (I mean, you're likely to get stiffed, and it's not a great look being the company that built this monstrosity but I'm sure that there are groups simply SLAVERING.) Then what does he do? Force companies to build it? Outsource?? I'm sure prison labor would be used for the manual building, but you sort of actually need engineers for design, etc.
posted by thebrokedown at 2:37 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by thebrokedown at 2:37 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
A good chunk of that wall money is going to end up in Trump's pocket, one way or another.
posted by Artw at 2:49 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:49 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh. Forgot about those fuckers. : (
posted by thebrokedown at 2:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by thebrokedown at 2:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
So...are basketballs flat too? Is that why making free throws is so difficult? Can't see the curvature of the earth from the free-throw line? /hamburger
posted by riverlife at 3:22 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by riverlife at 3:22 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
CBP put out their specifications for border wall proposals.
A friend of mine would like to know what kind of legal consequences await the filing of a proposal for an $80 trillion wall constructed in the form of a 2,000-mile-long half-pipe/skate park supported by an enormous network of underground tunnels that run north-south for no particular reason.
posted by compartment at 3:29 PM on March 19, 2017 [12 favorites]
A friend of mine would like to know what kind of legal consequences await the filing of a proposal for an $80 trillion wall constructed in the form of a 2,000-mile-long half-pipe/skate park supported by an enormous network of underground tunnels that run north-south for no particular reason.
posted by compartment at 3:29 PM on March 19, 2017 [12 favorites]
wouldn't it be fantastic if no company in the US would touch this stupid damn wall at all?
French-Swiss firm Lafarge ready to sell cement for Trump's wall
oopsie do
posted by infini at 3:34 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
French-Swiss firm Lafarge ready to sell cement for Trump's wall
oopsie do
posted by infini at 3:34 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
a) do some espionage, b) drop some bio or chemical weapon in the food, c) or a knife or something I don't know
Note the bit in the story where they were checked over by the Secret Service in what I shall refer to as the Presidential Free Candy Van before being allowed near Trump.
d) seduce DJT or one of his Secret Service agents or someone else of importance, or e) anything else that would compromise security (both at Mar-a-Lago and in the United States in general)?
All bets are off. I find it hard to imagine that d) wasn't actually the plan.
posted by jaduncan at 3:38 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
Note the bit in the story where they were checked over by the Secret Service in what I shall refer to as the Presidential Free Candy Van before being allowed near Trump.
d) seduce DJT or one of his Secret Service agents or someone else of importance, or e) anything else that would compromise security (both at Mar-a-Lago and in the United States in general)?
All bets are off. I find it hard to imagine that d) wasn't actually the plan.
posted by jaduncan at 3:38 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
French-Swiss firm Lafarge ready to sell cement for Trump's wall
I'm sorry, I read that as:
IBM ready to solve record-keeping problem for Hitler
posted by valkane at 3:38 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm sorry, I read that as:
IBM ready to solve record-keeping problem for Hitler
posted by valkane at 3:38 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
So...are basketballs flat too? Is that why making free throws is so difficult? Can't see the curvature of the earth from the free-throw line? /hamburger
Oh snap-A-Shaq
posted by Room 641-A at 3:39 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh snap-A-Shaq
posted by Room 641-A at 3:39 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
or e) anything else that would compromise security (both at Mar-a-Lago and in the United States in general)?
Who knows how many bugs and listening devices are infesting Mar-a-Lago right now but at a rough guess I'd say about a snillion.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:16 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
Who knows how many bugs and listening devices are infesting Mar-a-Lago right now but at a rough guess I'd say about a snillion.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:16 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
I keep reading "Sleepy Tillerson" as "Sleepy Gary", and it makes me think for a microsecond that ever since election night we have been infected by Alien Parasites.
posted by My Dad at 6:28 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 6:28 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
corb: “I would really recommend to everyone "When Calls The Heart", which is pretty much a textbook window into not-hateful Conservative Consciousness”I needed something to watch after finishing my The West Wing rewatch/mental health support. I'm not sure how much conservative explication one might find in it, but I'm on episode 9. It's a nice, gentle show. Thanks, corb.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:43 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am hesistant to go all the way to the mat with my general defense of NPR being basically decent and definitely necessary, but they did cover the indigenous march. I agree they were very late and light on Standing Rock and on idigenous issues in general, though they at least were more involved than some other national media and covered it from a number of angles and repeatedly over many months. Spitbull, I think you pretty much nailed the general vague-uninformed-liberal-but-fuzzy take on Native issues that dominates national media and public perception. I'd love to see that start to break down better, too, but it's pretty amazing, the depth of the disconnect. I can see how more attention from mainstream media would open the channel to the current, and pretty exciting and eventful, state of indigenous activism. This problem, to me, goes way beyond what NPR's constraints and biases are and speaks to the larger rift between mainly-white, shallow perceptions of indigeneity, and the reality of the real lives of people with an active indigenous identity. We're living in a time in which there is this (largely Milennial-fueled) groundswell of rich, expansive, energized indigenous thought and activism across every field of endeavor, and you'd never freaking know it, because most Americans never have occasion to come into contact with it.
posted by Miko at 9:49 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Miko at 9:49 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
This way to see the Amazing Egress and the NEW THREAD ---->
posted by winna at 7:05 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:05 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
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posted by T.D. Strange at 7:25 PM on March 13, 2017 [7 favorites]