He's been up all night listening to Mohammed's radio...
March 24, 2017 7:53 AM Subscribe

Nuclear arms tests by Pyongyang / ICE is deporting everyone that they can / Israel’s ambassador says that Jews are Nazis / And President Bannon does whatever he please / Looks like another threat to world peace / Caused by the POTUS

China gets a spot at Mar-a-Lago / D.O.J got bought and wouldn’t do no mo’ / He’s got billionaire’s immunity / He’s a lethal weapon to democracy / Looks like another threat to world peace / Caused by the POTUS

Whenever there’s a crisis / Republicans send the POTUS in / He thinks he’s their “closer” / Without Russia he’d never win

The GOP wants to kill healthcare / But the AHCA isn't goin’ nowhere / The right wing wants to punish mommies / And Paul Ryan do whatever he please / Looks like another threat to world peace / By the POTUS / By the POTUS / Must impeach!

Sincere apologies to Warren Zevon.

posted by jferg (3173 comments total) 143 users marked this as a favorite

Thanks, jferg.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:57 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

If we're quoting Warren Zevon (as in the title), I suggest "Grandpa pissed his pants last night/He don't give a damn..."
posted by thelonius at 7:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [25 favorites]

538 polling average shows continued erosion of Trump approval: now at -10 (42/52) for the first time.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Weber is a confirmed no this morning. Claudia Tenney (R-N.Y.), who was a yes, is undecided. Rodney Frelinghuysen, chairman of the appropriations committee, is a no.

Also, today is my birthday, so, let's do this. And by do this, I mean make Paul Ryan and Donald Trump look like fools.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [120 favorites]

If somehow this all causes Paul Ryan to lose his speakership I will be so happy and it will not be schadenfreude because there will be nothing shameful about it. I am avoiding sugar during Lent but if Paul Ryan steps down I will declare it a feast day and I will bake a celebratory cake and I will write Go to Hell Paul Ryan with icing in lovely cursive on the cake and then I will eat the cake.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [252 favorites]

we would also accept "send lawyers, guns, and money / the shit has hit the fan"
posted by murphy slaw at 7:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [37 favorites]

It seems like only yesterday that Trump was basking in the quisling media's approval of his "pivot" -- which wasn't -- in his address to Congress.

As I noted in the previous thread, hings will get really interesting if the Democrats gain control of either house of Congress and, therefore, gain subpoena authority to investigate the Russian connection, to say nothing of various other facets of Trump's malfeasance and corruption.
posted by Gelatin at 8:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

thelonius: I thought about that one. I actually wanted to use "Everybody's desperate trying to make ends meet
Work all day, still can't pay the price of gasoline and meat", but it was too long. Warren has far too many applicable lyrics.
posted by jferg at 8:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Paul Ryan was in the House when the House burned down.
posted by EarBucket at 8:01 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Israel’s ambassador says that Jews are Nazis

Minor pedantry, offered without censure: should this not be, "the [new] US Ambassador to Israel says ... "-?
posted by the quidnunc kid at 8:02 AM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

quidnunc: Yes, but I couldn't manage to make that scan with the song. Sacrifices for art, or something.
posted by jferg at 8:04 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Rodney Frelinghuysen, chairman of the appropriations committee, is a no.

I just want to highlight this. The Chair of Appropriations, which is to say the person who controls the purse strings of the federal government, one of the most powerful people in DC (and therefore in the world), a position that can only be occupied by a serious power player in the majority party, says "No."

There will be a bloodbath. Keep up the pressure.
posted by Etrigan at 8:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [88 favorites]

I can't decide whether it's better for this to succeed or fail. I'm leaning fail, but this albatross would presumably be helpful for 2018. Also, if the White House and Breitbart appear to be against it...

I'm so confused.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

We can't risk passage. Sure, I can construct a scenario that helps the Dems more, but only at serious risk of hurting lots of people. Kill it with fire, now.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [83 favorites]

You know what makes an even better albatross than a shitty healthcare bill? A failed shitty healthcare bill.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [61 favorites]

Every time the thread gets "quiet" I breathe a sigh of relief and think "oh good, things are calming down," and every time it means a new thread has been opened up instead. :(

(Thanks for this, jferg, and to all of you for keeping me semi-sane.)
posted by mynameisluka at 8:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Also, if this thing goes down in flames, Paul Ryan's done, yes? If a Speaker can't pass the one thing that his party has been promising for 7 years, it's game over, right?

That leaves, what, Kevin McCarthy? He'd be third in line for the Presidency? That kinda matters more than usual now.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

it's no question to me that it must fail, because the consequences of it passing are not worth any number of democratic votes it might gain
posted by murphy slaw at 8:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Yes, I would like me and many of my friends to keep having access to potentially life-saving healthcare through the Medicaid expansion please.
posted by overglow at 8:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

I can't decide whether it's better for this to succeed or fail. I'm leaning fail, but this albatross would presumably be helpful for 2018. Also, if the White House and Breitbart appear to be against it...

The enemy of my enemy can kiss my ass too.
posted by Servo5678 at 8:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

This is uh...interesting. Manafort has apparently volunteered to testify under oath.
posted by azuresunday at 8:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

quidnunc: Yes, but I couldn't manage to make that scan with the song. Sacrifices for art, or something.

Oh - I see. You claim a musical justification, in accordance with long-hallowed principles of MetaFilter law. On such basis, may it please the MetaCourt and my learned friend: I apologise, I retract my motion of pedantry and submit an application to boogie, and/or woogie, as the case may be.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 8:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [41 favorites]

I heard on NPR that Trump said that if the boll doesn't pass today, he's done with it. I hope the Democrats are preparing attack ads for every single Republican in Congress juxtaposing this mess with Trump's grandiose campaign promises, hopefully punctuated with his signature tell, "believe me" and a smash cut to black.
posted by Gelatin at 8:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [38 favorites]

I guess my takeaway from this thread is that Warren Zevon wrote Hamilton
posted by beerperson at 8:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, right? If the AHCA passes out of the house today, here's a pretty good twitter-thread about what the Senate timeline and process would be, and what should/can be done to resist it at every step.
posted by penduluum at 8:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

push a health care overhaul before unveiling a tax cut proposal

...but this is a tax cut.
posted by H. Roark at 8:12 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

Regarding Lil' Donald's Big Day, Jeopardy! legend and national treasure Ken Jennings tweeted: "tbh I'd be excited too if I just got my first semi in 25 years".
posted by dhens at 8:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [106 favorites]

This is uh...interesting. Manafort has apparently volunteered to testify under oath.

Well, it's not like the gop will ever move forward with a perjury indictment against a republican these days
posted by dis_integration at 8:14 AM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Way back in December I had briefly entertained the idea that what Trump would do is the sensible thing: fiddle with a few settings on the ACA, rebrand it as TrumpCare, and claim credit for it's success.

But I quickly realized, and I think now its proven, that was never anything but a pipe dream.

Yes, that would be the smartest thing they could do, but they are not capable of doing the smart thing due to ideology.

The ACA is a massive transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor. It is a massive example of government programs working. It is, in other words, anathema to the core positions of modern Republicanism.

They can't just fiddle a bit with it and claim it as their own. It isn't just the Teabaggers who won't stand for that, it's the whole party. You can't accept a tax and benefits program like the ACA if you're a Republican. Taxes must always go down, benefits must always shrink, and any sort of downward wealth transfer is always the Worst Thing Ever. So it doesn't matter what the smart thing to do is, they can't do it. They must slash taxes for hte rich, eradicate anything that takes money from the rich to benefit the poor, and therefore they must repeal and replace with basically nothing.

Upwards wealth transfer is not merely ok, but the divine duty of all true Republicans, and you'll notice that's exactly what the AHCA does. It steals from the poor and gives to the rich, so that's fine. Wealth transfer from poor people to rich people is not merely permissible but their holy duty, though they'd object strenuously to calling it wealth transfer. Sort of like how it isn't class war when the rich wage war on the poor, only when the poor fight back.

Which bring us to today and their almost guaranteed passage of a black box that does little but steal healthcare from the poor in order to give money to the rich. It doesn't matter if passing it is stupid, they'll pass it. They have to.

They can't let the ACA stand, if they fail to repeal it their voters will eat them alive, repealing it has been their sole reason for existence for seven years now. It's whistling past the graveyard to imagine they won't vote to get rid of it no matter how stupid that vote would be. Especially if they can kick the can down the road a bit so the voters will be less likely to blame them for the problems of repealing.

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.
posted by sotonohito at 8:15 AM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

we would also accept "send lawyers, guns, and money / the shit has hit the fan"

or how about... 'my shit's fucked up. the shit that used to work, it don't work no more'
posted by ian1977 at 8:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

If this is how he handles one of his party's signature policy proposals of the last decade, how is he going to hold up in an actual crisis? He isn't, that's how.

You're never going to see him wearing a helmet and standing on top of a pile of smoking rubble with a bullhorn. When his Katrina happens, the photo won't be him staring out the window of AF1 at the devastation with a look of vague concern: if there are any photos it'll be of him watching tv with the same blank amphibian expression as always. Remember Cheney's time in a "secure location?" It'll be like that, but indefinitely (save for the occasional tweet). He's going to make George W. Bush look like John McClane, if Bruce Willis had difficulty swallowing pretzels.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

Another thread, and yet another drawing of the Donald, this one a bit older. What do you do when both faces of a two faced human being are equally hideous? Why, you draw them both!

As per usual, please feel free to share, or download, or what have you.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 8:17 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

"Brother Billy's got both guns drawn / he ain't been right since Vietnam" may also be thematically appropriate.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 8:17 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.

Can we bring back the img tag for this?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:17 AM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

yay, the white house is leaving nunes to twist in the wind:

Rep Swalwell "as I sit here tonight we have still NOT seen the evidence that Nunes took to WH first. We are DEMANDING to see it by tomorrow"
-- @aliasvaughn

Somewhere Nunes is realizing, when you're at the table with Trump, look for the Chris Christie.

If you don't see one, YOU'RE the Christie.
-- @jonrog1
posted by murphy slaw at 8:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [200 favorites]

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.

Appropriate. Eating cake while the world burns is a pretty good metaphor for middle class accelerationists in general.
posted by Talez at 8:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

Trump was on the radio arguing for passage in second grade level caveman-speak, so he's telling the base he's for it. He may also be leaking to the NYT to cover his ass and stll appear to be a non-moron. If this doesn't get out of the House, blaming the Dems is going to be rougher than it failing in the Senate. Fail Bigly!
posted by benzenedream at 8:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

beerperson: "I guess my takeaway from this thread is that Warren Zevon wrote Hamilton"

"Aaron Burr the headless musket gunner"
posted by Chrysostom at 8:20 AM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

They can't just fiddle a bit with it and claim it as their own. It isn't just the Teabaggers who won't stand for that, it's the whole party.

I agree they couldn't do that. There are any number of ways in which the ACA needed minor tweaks, and if the Republicans actually set out to improve the bill, the Democrats would be totally on board with that process. The Republicans wouldn't get to tweak and claim credit; at best, they'd be part of a bipartisan process to improve the bill they've been promising to burn to the ground for the past seven years. Their voters would never forgive them.

And as you (and Bill Kristol, in his infamous memo urging Republicans to join in lockstep opposition to Bill Clinton's efforts to reform health insurance) point out, that approach would simply validate the Democrats' point that government can provide benefits to voters. They can't have that.
posted by Gelatin at 8:20 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Manafort has apparently volunteered to testify under oath.

He's no dummy. You've seen the news about Putin's Russian enemies dying under mysterious circumstances lately, right? Well, if that's what Putin does to his opponents, imagine what he does to compromised former assets. I'm certain Putin has Manafort in his sights right now, and Manafort knows he'll be safest locked away in federal custody. Gorilla, you're a desperado.

And we need to stop the AHCA from passing, just so no more little old ladies are mutilated.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:20 AM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

Somewhere Nunes is realizing, when you're at the table with Trump, look for the Chris Christie.

If you don't see one, YOU'RE the Christie.

May all Nunes's lunches to come taste of Nixon Submission Meatloaf
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:21 AM on March 24, 2017 [44 favorites]

And as you (and Bill Kristol, in his infamous memo urging Republicans to join in lockstep opposition to Bill Clinton's efforts to reform health insurance) point out, that approach would simply validate the Democrats' point that government can provide benefits to voters. They can't have that.

At this point it's pretty fucking obvious that government can provide benefits to voters. The question is whether people will continue to vote against it just to spite liberals.
posted by Talez at 8:22 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Meanwhile, at today's meeting on feline healthcare...(SLTwitter)
posted by Sophie1 at 8:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

a beaming Mr. Trump climbed into the rig of a black tractor-trailer
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

sotonohito: "Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here."

Are you also still predicting at least 20 Dem House votes for AHCA?
posted by Chrysostom at 8:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

You know what makes an even better albatross than a shitty healthcare bill? A failed shitty healthcare bill.

Always remember, however, to correctly tie the albatross 'round someone's neck.
posted by nubs at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2017

Somewhere Nunes is realizing, when you're at the table with Trump, look for the Chris Christie.

If you don't see one, YOU'RE the Christie.

"Where's Reek?" ... uh-oh.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Manafort has apparently volunteered to testify under oath.

Are we sure about that "under oath" part? This Howard Dean/David Frum exchange on Twitter sounds like not under oath.
posted by dnash at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Here's hoping that today is the first concrete victory we've gotten since the depressing failure that was November 8.
posted by flatluigi at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Guys let's be nice to each other, if at all possible. And that's coming from someone who's been described as "the war rig."

I have sick faith in the Republicans ability to be both entirely craven and entirely corrupt, and so I won't be surprised if they pass this clusterfuck to the Senate. We will fight it wherever we have to. But I am damn well going to enjoy every ounce of pain it brings them, because, well, they're terrible people who are trying to make poor people suffer.

We can suit up and point and laugh at the same time.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

I believe Adam Schiff will be holding a press conference in a few minutes. Live feed here
posted by birdheist at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I've put together an analysis of the age of Supreme Court justices at the time of swearing in and life expectancy on my blog. Recent Republican president Supreme Court justices have been 3 years younger than the Democrat nominees and Gorsuch would be the fifth youngest among the set born since the beginning of 20th century (after Clarence Thomas, William Rehnquist, Potter Stewart and Byron White).
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Here's hoping that today is the first concrete victory we've gotten since the depressing failure that was November 8.

I want to remind us all of the MAJOR victory we succeeded in getting around the Muslim ban. We did that. We took to the airports. We (attorneys) sat at the airports all night arguing with CBP. We (protesters) fed and brought supplies to the attorneys. We (ACLU) argued at the courts that this MF was illegal as fuck and then we (people) donated 6x ACLUs annual donation rate to make that possible again and again if need be.

We DID that.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:28 AM on March 24, 2017 [202 favorites]

Our shit's fucked up. (Thanks, Warren)

If AHCA is rejected then won't Trump starve Obamacare into a death spiral before next year?
posted by surplus at 8:28 AM on March 24, 2017

Trump Has No Good Options On Health Care
And it’s his own fault.
posted by robbyrobs at 8:28 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Adam Schiff giving another excellent explainer/chronology.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

The ACA is a massive transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor. It is a massive example of government programs working. It is, in other words, anathema to the core positions of modern Republicanism.

The ACA has seemed for a long time like a somewhat less fucked situation than the pre-ACA state of affairs. An importantly less fucked situation, but I would characterize it more as "a massive example of government programs that could be considerably worse".

Of course this is anathema to the core positions of the GOP, which are in a nutshell: Things should be worse.
posted by brennen at 8:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

At this point it's pretty fucking obvious that government can provide benefits to voters.

Paul Ryan is on record arguing against the ACA on the grounds that the young and healthy subsidize the poor and sick.

Which is, of course, how all insurance works, but to many Republicans it's an article of faith that the government can't do anything right, and certainly not better than the private sector.

If I thought they understood objective reality, I'd imagine that among of the roots of their hatred of the ACA is the fact that many of its flaws stem from its reliance on the private insurance market.
posted by Gelatin at 8:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Schiff presser : Nunes' actions were "wholly inappropriate" and "cast grave doubts into the ability [of HPSCI] to run a credible investigation."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

If AHCA is rejected then won't Trump starve Obamacare into a death spiral before next year?

It still wouldn't be as bad as the shitty bill, and they'd absolutely get the blame for it.
posted by Artw at 8:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Once in a while I bake a cake to celebrate the removal of some malignant person from the world. The list used to be pretty short... Scalia, Kissinger, Cheney, Kim Jong-Il... Now? let's just say I need to start buying flour at Costco.
posted by benzenedream at 8:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

If AHCA is rejected then won't Trump starve Obamacare into a death spiral before next year?

And then what? They'll pass another bill?

/kermitdrinkingtea.jpg
posted by saturday_morning at 8:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Literally no one seems to know if it's going to pass.

If nothing else, I shall take pleasure in the epidemic of acid reflux sure to be sweeping through the shitty side of the aisle.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I have this pet theory that the current WTFness between Comey, Nunes/Schiff and the admin and the current WTFness of the Repeal-and-oh-will-you-poors-just-die-already Healthcare bill will-they-or-won't-they are actually connected - that Trump wants something in the bill that won't hit his base numbers too hard, or he'll veto the bill, and the GOP, specifically the Freedom-to-die Caucus, keep intimating to him that a)he's not very popular, so they don't really fear him or his legion of twitter followers and b)they could make his future life, not just his administration, very hard if he doesn't roll over, play ball, sign bills and get them their tax breaks, bathroom bills, and federal shock troops; cause jail is hard for a 70-year-old.

Oh, I know that it's not nearly that well thought out - that all of this is far from the truth, which is that the GOP is falling apart, splitting between the paymasters and the foot-soldiers, splintering at the edges, and it's been happening since the turn of the millennium, and it's not going to stop just because they're in power. But that's why it's a pet theory, not a working theory.
posted by eclectist at 8:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

If this is how he handles one of his party's signature policy proposals of the last decade, how is he going to hold up in an actual crisis? He isn't, that's how.

You're never going to see him wearing a helmet and standing on top of a pile of smoking rubble with a bullhorn. When his Katrina happens, the photo won't be him staring out the window of AF1 at the devastation with a look of vague concern: if there are any photos it'll be of him watching tv with the same blank amphibian expression as always.

I agree completely and it's made me wonder something : Could someone who is familiar with those Pepe meme people tell me if the reason they adopted it is because it looks like Trump?
posted by winna at 8:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Literally no one seems to know if it's going to pass.

Which means Republicans will be calculating what action will be least risky to their political careers, which I don't expect will translate into a sudden upswell of a support for a bill widely perceived as a stinker, and a doomed stinker at that.
posted by Gelatin at 8:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

@JohnJHarwood:

• senior WH aide on health vote today: "can't debate this for months on end. Next up, tax cuts"
• senior WH aide on health-care issue of bill goes down today: "the president will walk away. next battle"
• senior WH aide, asked if decisive health care defeat today is best for Team Trump: "100%"
• remember from Trump point of view: it's not HIM who's spent 7 years promising to repeal Obamacare, it's Congressional Rs. he's barely an R

This is exactly what Trump does when the shit hits the fan. He walks away, leaving his former partners holding the bag. Why did the Rump Republicans think they'd fare any differently?
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [114 favorites]

Schiff is just short of demanding an independent investigation and the abandonment of the congressional investigation as irreparably tainted.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

> May all Nunes's lunches to come taste of Nixon Submission Meatloaf

Can we all just promise to never put all the words in the last half of this sentence in close proximity with each other ever again? Like, they're perfectly fine words, good by themselves, good when used with lots of other words. But please, please don't put all of those specific words together with each other ever again.

Like, seriously people, phrasing. phrasing.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:38 AM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

HR 1628 (AHCA) is on the floor of the House now. 4 hours of debate, and then we all find out what happens.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:39 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

[starts singing "I want to be in the House when it happens/the House when it happens/the House when it happens.]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:39 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Schiff is just short of demanding an independent investigation and the abandonment of the congressional investigation as irreparably tainted.

What in the Actual Point Fuck is keeping him?
posted by Etrigan at 8:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

This is exactly what Trump does when the shit hits the fan. He walks away, leaving his former partners holding the bag.

I am very interested to see if political opinion works like this. My suspicion is that it does not.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Like, seriously people, phrasing. phrasing.

I stand by it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

remember from Trump point of view: it's not HIM who's spent 7 years promising to repeal Obamacare, it's Congressional Rs. he's barely an R

Except he has. From 2011: Donald Trump: ObamaCare Is Unconstitutional, Should Be Repealed
posted by melissasaurus at 8:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

What in the Actual Point Fuck is keeping him?

Maybe thinks he might as well take the opportunity to interview Manafort next week before walking away?
posted by saturday_morning at 8:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

May all Nunes's lunches to come taste of Nixon Submission Meatloaf

Can we all just promise to never put all the words in the last half of this sentence in close proximity with each other ever again?

But "Nixon Submission Meatloaf" is the ultimate Dead Kennedys deep cut!
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

The Trump administration wants to kill the popular Energy Star program because it combats climate change

Under President Trump, the Environmental Protection Agency is on the chopping block. Both the president’s proposed budget and his executive orders on cutting regulations would shrink the EPA. But of the 38 EPA programs that the Trump administration has proposed cutting, at least one is quite surprising: the popular — and voluntary — Energy Star program. It’s not a mandatory regulation, nor a “job killer.” We can only assume that it’s on the list because its strong connection with climate change mitigation.

posted by Existential Dread at 8:46 AM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

The thing that seems to differentiate Trump and R Congressmembers is that Trump is more concerned with how the legislation affects his personal wealth (so, his brand. also potentially his entanglements with Russia) while Congressmembers are more worried about the rest of the 0.1%. If tax cuts hurt his brand more than they help rich folks, well...
posted by R a c h e l at 8:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I should clarify, Schiff stated all the reasons that he thinks that the independent investigation is required, he just didn't sit on the floor and say that he's not standing up until the congressional investigation is dissolved.

I suspect he's just trying to appear painfully reasonable and even-handed to make the republicans look irrational and partisan for refusing to do so.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Which means Republicans will be calculating what action will be least risky to their political careers, which I don't expect will translate into a sudden upswell of a support for a bill widely perceived as a stinker, and a doomed stinker at that.

• senior WH aide on health vote today: "can't debate this for months on end. Next up, tax cuts"
• senior WH aide on health-care issue of bill goes down today: "the president will walk away. next battle"
• senior WH aide, asked if decisive health care defeat today is best for Team Trump: "100%"
• remember from Trump point of view: it's not HIM who's spent 7 years promising to repeal Obamacare, it's Congressional Rs. he's barely an R

No better signal to back away from this thing. Trump effectively already has.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

If somehow this all causes Paul Ryan to lose his speakership

The Speaker fight would involve knives, at a point it's two steps from an easily impeachable White House.
posted by corb at 8:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

trying to appear painfully reasonable and even-handed to make the republicans look irrational and partisan for refusing to do so

oh HONEY
posted by saturday_morning at 8:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

This is exactly what Trump does when the shit hits the fan. He walks away, leaving his former partners holding the bag.

I am very interested to see if political opinion works like this. My suspicion is that it does not.

Same here. Trump's always going to have his diehard supporters, but for the rest of those who vote R, he can only go around saying "We're gonna replace X with something beautiful" or "X complex problem stops RIGHT NOW" or "I hate X, until I demonstrate that I love it" for so long, before they've had enough.

For those people, I hope "Believe me" becomes shorthand for "bullshit," sooner rather than later.
posted by Rykey at 8:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

*turns on C-SPAN*
posted by beerperson at 8:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [77 favorites]

I suspect he's just trying to appear painfully reasonable and even-handed to make the republicans look irrational and partisan for refusing to do so.

I admire the sentiment, I truly do, but when has that ever worked in the history of the Republican Party?
posted by lydhre at 8:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

You've seen the news about Putin's Russian enemies dying under mysterious circumstances lately, right? Well, if that's what Putin does to his opponents, imagine what he does to compromised former assets.

Is anybody running a book on the life expectancy of a certain Mr. Assange?
posted by acb at 8:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

we would also accept "send lawyers, guns, and money / the shit has hit the fan"

"And everybody knew/He was with the Russians, too"
posted by stevis23 at 8:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

While we've all been trying to follow the goings-on with the AHCA, Nunes, and Trump's seemingly endless supply of daily outrages, this happened:

This week, President Donald Trump quietly appointed anti-LGBTQ activist Roger Severino to lead the Department of Health and Human Services’ Office of Civil Rights (OCR), an office whose work he has actively opposed.

In his previous role as Director of the DeVos Center for Religion and Civil Society for the Heritage Foundation, Severino spoke out against the civil rights protections he will now be tasked with upholding and supported the wholesale repeal of the Affordable Care Act.

“By appointing Mr. Severino to enforce the life-saving protections that he has made his personal mission to dismantle, the Trump administration has once again put the fox in charge of the hen house,” said Mara Keisling, executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality (NCTE), in a statement.

posted by tonycpsu at 8:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [95 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives, at a point it's two steps from an easily impeachable White House.

Well, after the 2016 we just endured, I'd say the least the Congressional Republicans owe us now is a no-holds-barred knife fight on CSPAN.
posted by Mayor West at 8:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

-artist's conception-
posted by the phlegmatic king at 8:53 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

I would read this Borges story
posted by middleclasstool at 8:54 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

-animated conception-
posted by Servo5678 at 8:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

In health-but-not-health-care/insurance related news (with a hefty side of dogwhistle and obvious, straight-up lying, the treasury secretary had this to say about his boss:

“He’s got perfect genes,” Mnuchin gushed to Allen. ”He has incredible energy, and he’s unbelievably healthy.” The former Goldman Sachs banker turned movie producer turned foreclosure mogul also noted that Trump, known for his love of McDonald’s and K.F.C., no longer eats that stuff because the White House food “is great.”

Seems like that Nixon Submission Meatloaf is POTUS and Treasury approved.

source: vanityfair
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 8:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Senator Patty Murray: I will be voting against the nomination of Judge Neil Gorsuch, and I will oppose a cloture motion ending debate. -PM

If Judge Gorsuch can’t get 60 votes, Republicans shouldn’t change the rules, they should change the nominee. http://bit.ly/2nvIlDW #SCOTUS
posted by Existential Dread at 8:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [64 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

-reenactment-
posted by leotrotsky at 9:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

“He’s got perfect genes,”

Firstly: that's Hitler talk.
Secondly: Demonstrably false both in the case of Trump and Hitler, and additionally all the hideous Trump-spawn.
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

Watching the House mull this over, I can't help but re-cast them all as frat boys undergoing initiation. The final step to join up is to blindly eat whatever is on the plate. The ceremonial velvet napkin is lifted. The inductees crowd. They look down. The shiny silver plate presents a pile of shit. Dog? Human? Someone gags. It could have been Marmite. Moldy eggs. Maggots. Nails. Anything, anything but...this. Someone else gags. Maybe the price of admission is too high.

It's been eight years. They really shouldn't have phoned this one in. Even happily goosestepping Republicans have their limits.
posted by erinfern at 9:02 AM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

I kind of think the fight would look more like this - some deplorable R trying his luck on Ryan's carcass...

They're the Party of Lincoln, right? BROADSWORDS IN A PIT
posted by Mayor West at 9:03 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

“He’s got perfect genes,”

This was a typo. He's got perfect JEANS. Really nice Jordache pair he's kept since the 80s.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

I would read this Borges story

Celestial Emporium of Terrific Knowledge

∙Failing Things
∙The Art of the Deal
∙Low Energy People
∙Ivanka
∙Radical Islamic Terrorism
∙Golf
∙306 Electoral College Votes
∙Foods that taste good with Ketchup
∙Vladimir Putin
posted by leotrotsky at 9:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

If AHCA is rejected then won't Trump starve Obamacare into a death spiral before next year?

By what mechanism? All the funding levers on the ACA are held by Congress, as far as I know. There's no executive branch agency that he can refuse to fill vacancies in.

Ryan might try to starve it, but that's different. I suspect that, if he's not challenged for the speakership, he'll want to move on and pretend this fiasco didn't happen.

Is anybody running a book on the life expectancy of a certain Mr. Assange?

I don't think Assange knows anything that would make him a threat. He's been too carefully managed so far.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I kindof think the fight would look more like this - some deplorable R trying his luck on Ryan's carcass...

In death we shall be together always
posted by Existential Dread at 9:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Watching the House mull this over, I can't help but re-cast them all as frat boys undergoing initiation

They're definitely talking and acting like they've consumed a zillion beers.
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:08 AM on March 24, 2017

I'm in MI11, home of "Guy Who Looks Like Judge Reinhold Playing A Villain," Michigan's Foreclosure King, Dave Trott. He whose aide was caught on a hot mic wanting to accuse town hall protestors of acting unpatriotic.

No one could be bothered to answer his DC office phone this a.m., so here's an approximation of a fax and FB post I submitted:

Your staff didnt answer the phone at 10:30, so this is to state my extreme opposition to tRump/ryancare, and support for Pres. Obama's ACA, under which I have been able to have healthcare for the past three years.

I am a resident of MI11. I am not a "paid protestor." I also wish my highly decorated WWII vet dad was still here so he could know your weasly staff have accused people like me of being "unpatriotic." Because he - who fought Nazis, and didnt exist in the same political party with Nazis - would also have opposed the vast majority of your agenda./

__
Oh, and people here who dont know if they want this to fail NOW? Yeah, remember when people voted for Stein cos Hillary was gonna win anyway?

__
On another note, I hate how Gorsuch is being lost in all this. (Not to mention, let's keep our eye on the Big Treason Ball.) I've started watching Trevor Noah again, and he tried to cover the SCOTUS nominee a couple nights ago. (Altho both TDS and I think Seth Meyers have actually made bits re: how there's too many sh*tshows at once.)
posted by NorthernLite at 9:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Funnily enough just yesterday on FB I commented that I'd like to just send both the Koch Bros and Trump to the fighting pits of Mereen. I'd be on board for that solution to any House Speaker vacancies as well.

[I just finished rewatching all of Game of Thrones last night (mild spoilers). I nearly cried at the end remembering all of the KHALEESI IS COMING TO WESTEROS memes from the final days of the election. Meanwhile, here in King's Landing, Mad King Bannon is just going to blow up the sept with all of us in it.]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Regarding Lil' Donald's Big Day, Jeopardy! legend and national treasure Ken Jennings tweeted: "tbh I'd be excited too if I just got my first semi in 25 years".

hahahaha holy shit
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

The Speaker fight would involve knives

They've already filmed this - just go watch The Dark Crystal again and keep your eyes open.

[because there's never been a better comparison between peaceful trudging harmonious but defenseless creatures versus spiteful backstabbing shrill horrific monsters than the ~~Democrats vs Republicans~~ urRu vs Skeksis. I'll leave it up to you to determine who's really the Jen in this story (bonus points for Aughra).]
posted by komara at 9:10 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

benzenedream: Once in a while I bake a cake to celebrate the removal of some malignant person from the world. ... Now? let's just say I need to start buying flour at Costco.

Fans of the original Bugle Podcast may remember their "Fuck You-logy" to Osama Bin Laden and, later, to a few other of the world's worst humans. If you want some (sadly beeped) inspiration while you bake and do the washing up, the 7-minute clip of that piece is on YouTube here.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I did a bunch volunteer work for HRC and my state Democrats during the election, so 11/8 and 11/9 felt particularly bitter. However, yesterday, I pulled out my Election 2016 buttons and, for the first time, didn't feel crushing sadness while looking at them.

As Frowner noted in the previous thread:

We've got to try to live in the heroic mode now, I think - not in the sense of "let's storm the capitol" but in the sense of "I am acting for history and for what is right, even knowing that these are bad times and we will take losses". The only way to conceptualize these times that works for me is that we are struggling against evil, and history will remember.

So yeah, thanks to all of you who hang out in these threads for being my political support group and continually inspiring me to resist in heroic mode.

P.S. Frowner--I hope someday that I can become as wise as you. I always look forward to your comments :).
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:12 AM on March 24, 2017 [99 favorites]

if Paul Ryan steps down I will declare it a feast day and I will bake a celebratory cake and I will write Go to Hell Paul Ryan with icing in lovely cursive on the cake and then I will eat the cake.

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.

Can I get in on the Affordable Cake Act too?
posted by rouftop at 9:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Trump, known for his love of McDonald’s and K.F.C., no longer eats that stuff because the White House food “is great.”

What? He's not even at the White House every day of the week, and even if he were, you don't go from "I'm Lovin' It" to "unbelievably healthy" in 60 days. I used to think these people were in a contest to see who could tell the most lies; now I'm convinced they're in a contest to see who can tell the dumbest lie.
posted by Rykey at 9:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

One comment removed, animal kingdom or no let's maybe skip the rando corpse pics.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

rando corpse pics wtf
posted by R.F.Simpson at 9:18 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Timothy Caughman, the Other Terror Victim: Mr. Trump is easily provoked to outrage. But he seems unable to summon that emotion on behalf of Mr. Caughman, who was poor and black and lived in a shelter for homeless people with H.I.V. and AIDS. Maybe he’s not that kind of president. So the next best thing is to turn to his predecessor Barack Obama, who confronted senseless violence with healing words again and again. In January he said this, to a Chicago TV news station:

“We don’t benefit from pretending that racism doesn’t exist and hate doesn’t exist. We don’t benefit from not talking about it. The fact that these things are being surfaced means we can solve them. But over all, what I’ve seen as president in traveling around the country is, particularly, the next generation, young people, their appreciation of people who are different than them, come from different places, have different backgrounds, my daughter’s generation, they’re far more sophisticated about race, far more tolerant and embracing of diversity. So I think that over the long arc, America will keep on getting better.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:20 AM on March 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

In walks the village idiot, and his face is all aglow
posted by Meatbomb at 9:21 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Any cook worth their salt can make a picture-perfect big mac. I know because I've done it. I'm sure Cristeta can do just the same.
posted by valkane at 9:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ryan is on his way to the WH to brief POTUS. Per many anonymous Hill sources the current whip count is not looking good for him.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

I just realized that the ACA gutted DSH on the assumption that expanded Medicaid and universal insurance would lower the rate of uncompensated care. Are the Republicans readjusting the DSH levels on the back of gutting the ACA or are we literally going to see bankrupt hospitals?

The Republican AHCA plan restores DSH payments to hospitals for uncompensated care. Obamacare cut these payments because everyone was supposed to have insurance. Except the Republican states refused the Medicaid expansion money so they had lots of uncompensated care and hospitals were facing failure.

So the AHCA goes back to the 90s, reducing Medicaid and restoring DSH payments for uncompensated care. It's back to the future -- "if you can't afford a doctor, just go to the emergency room."
posted by JackFlash at 9:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

CBS WH correspondent: Mulvaney to @SpeakerRyan when informed he didn't have votes for #Obamacarerepeal -- "The president doesn't care. The president wants a vote"
posted by Chrysostom at 9:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

This Bill Murray gif sums up all my feelings about the failures of Trump/Ryan/AHCA/etc.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

DJT wants a vote so he knows who to add to his Enemies List.
posted by Superplin at 9:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

Metafilter: Lets maybe skip the rando corpse pics.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:34 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Anyone who isn't in Trump's immediate family is already on his enemies list -- he wants the vote so he knows how many tiers to move the "nays" up.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Sometimes instead of thinking how screwed we are that we're not in Trump Lost timeline, I comfort myself with thinking how glad I am we're not in Competent Nazi Timeline and just have to content with Keystone Nazi Timeline.
posted by corb at 9:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [85 favorites]

I wonder what the last bill was that actually was voted down on final passage (and not under 2/3 suspension of the rules). I'd imagine we see a motion to recommit, if it's allowed under the rule.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 9:36 AM on March 24, 2017

> DJT wants a vote so he knows who to add to his Enemies List.

He's making a list, he's checking it twice - who are the Republicans getting lumps of coal in their stockings come November 2018? But if he goes this route, it torpedoes the rest of his (p)residency.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:36 AM on March 24, 2017

Ow oooo
posted by jonmc at 9:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Warren might have loved Trump. In his biography, he says he's to the right of Reagan. Of course, he also seemed like a guy who might say stuff simply to get a reaction.

Complicated guy and a great songwriter. Sorry for this post and thanks for the new thread.
posted by orange ball at 9:39 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

God, that Major Garrett tweet is making me feel such glee. I love that these jackhole GOP congress guys are now directly, finally, feeling the result of Trump's weird insane machismo.
posted by something something at 9:39 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Lumps of coal would just be considered proof of MAGA
posted by erisfree at 9:39 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

I feel like there's more than enough to discuss with regards to the things people say, even politicians, and the actions they take without insulting physical appearance. Start walking down that road and you end up with things like racist Obama hate. Everybody who follows politics is stressed but we can do better than this.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 9:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

I feel like there's more than enough to discuss with regards to the things people say, even politicians, and the actions they take without insulting physical appearance

True enough - in fairness, it's not the actual fact of his ears that I hate, it's that every time I see a picture of him, I think about how harshly women are judged and how many conservatives I've heard praise his appearance, fitness, etc.
posted by Frowner at 9:45 AM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

Confusion over essential health benefits
House Republicans should look before they leap. Even if they’re on board with the amendment’s goals, its actual language is a train-wreck. If it becomes law, the individual insurance market will likely collapse nationwide in 2018. Its fate after that will be highly uncertain.

Why you don't write a bill that overhauls the entire health care system in a single night and try to pass it 12 hours later. Even if you knew what you were doing, legislative drafting is hard and some proofreading might be prudent.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:46 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm conflicted about the Trump Disintegration. On the one hand "Fuck em". On the other hand "Fuck me".
posted by srboisvert at 9:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

"He's got perfect JEANS. Really nice Jordache pair he's kept since the 80s."

Oh, Jesus, please, please don't. My eyes.

I think I'll go have a long, cleansing look at that entrails portrait from the previous thread.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Make sure your cake recipe includes Republican tears.
posted by overglow at 9:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

You know what? Paul Ryan's ears annoy me. I've seen so many pictures of his stupid face with his stupid googly eyes, but it's the ears that get me every time. No woman politician could rise in the ranks without having surgery to make her ears stick out less, much less rise in the ranks while being known for good looks.

I hate that I now know what all these awful people look like. I could be filling my memory with images of indelible beauty and sophistication, but instead I know what Paul Ryan looks like in workout clothes.

Those ears are actually a side effect of the second disc of P90X. There are some spine flexibility contortions involving tension bands hooking onto your ears that ultimately give you the ability to shove your own head right up your ass. The problem is that nobody gets any further in the DVDs because once you're in that position you can no longer follow the DVDs.
posted by srboisvert at 9:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

Surely what he'd have is a great vintage pair of BAD IDEA jeans.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:53 AM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

What? He's not even at the White House every day of the week, and even if he were, you don't go from "I'm Lovin' It" to "unbelievably healthy" in 60 days.

I dunno, maybe he just hasn't had the time to send the limo for takeout.

No woman politician could rise in the ranks without having surgery to make her ears stick out less, much less rise in the ranks while being known for good looks.

When it comes to politicians, we have lowered expectations in the looks department. (Plus, man.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:53 AM on March 24, 2017

MSNBC: VP Pence has arrived at Capitol Hill Club where Freedom Caucus is meeting - last ditch effort to win his former colleagues' votes
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:54 AM on March 24, 2017

Another previously uncommitted Rep., Barbara Comstock (R-VA), is a no
posted by saturday_morning at 9:54 AM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

@stevebruskCNN: GOP source tells @DanaBashCNN Speaker Ryan is telling the President they don't have the votes as of now, and asking what he wants him to do

This is some serious alpha shit here. MAGA!
posted by Existential Dread at 9:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [38 favorites]

Make sure your cake recipe includes Republican tears.

OMG please no, you're bringing down the wrath of the thing from high atop the whatever. (I had a bottle of Coke Zero that I printed out a label for that said "Fascist Tears" all ready to go for election eve Dorito and Coke celebrations. I'm having flashbacks.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

"The president doesn't care. The president wants a vote"

"Trumpie hears ya. Trumpie don't care."
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Daydream: Trump pushes for a vote because he's a giant toddler, there's a vote, whole thing goes down in flames.
posted by Frowner at 9:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I am avoiding sugar during Lent but if Paul Ryan steps down I will declare it a feast day and I will bake a celebratory cake and I will write Go to Hell Paul Ryan with icing in lovely cursive on the cake and then I will eat the cake.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl

Mrs. P, please remember to bring enough to share!
posted by BlueHorse at 9:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Speaker Ryan is telling the President they don't have the votes as of now, and asking what he wants him to do

Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
posted by saturday_morning at 9:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [93 favorites]

Paul Ryan's ears annoy me. I've seen so many pictures of his stupid face with his stupid googly eyes, but it's the ears that get me every time

I'll admit, I used to think Ryan was a stone cold fox, and now even were I single, I wouldn't fuck him with a ten foot pole. But it has nothing to do with his ears, which are honestly perfectly fine, but the fact that he's a goddamn Nazi collaborator. That's ugly enough without going looking for any other flaws.
posted by corb at 9:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

erisfree: Lumps of coal would just be considered proof of MAGA

Well, there'll be enough recipients that it could explain the pledge to get all those coal miner back to work.
posted by wenestvedt at 10:00 AM on March 24, 2017

Sen Udall (D-NM), other Ds, intro bill requiring disclosure of visitor logs at the WH and other locations Trump regularly conducts business. (unlike in the Obama admin, the WH visitor logs have not been posted online since 1/20)

The bill is called the Making Access Records Available to Lead American Government Openness (MAR-A-LAGO) Act
posted by melissasaurus at 10:01 AM on March 24, 2017 [221 favorites]

That feeling when you're happy and excited to toast marshmallows in front of the fire, even though the small voice in the back of your head is telling you that it's a raging forest fire that will unfortunately burn your house down anyway.

> Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?

See? That's exactly what I mean. I'm giggling, but existential dread is lurking in the background.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:01 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

[lurking intensifies]
posted by Existential Dread at 10:01 AM on March 24, 2017 [178 favorites]

> The bill is called the Making Access Records Available to Lead American Government Openness (MAR-A-LAGO) Act

Oh, bravo! Well done with the trolling. Almost as good as "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism" Act.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:02 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's feeling an awful lot like November 8th. Things are looking good, and that's terrifying. Ryan going to the White House to explain he doesn't want to put the bill on the floor if he doesn't have the votes (and right now, he doesn't, he's gonna need Congressional approval and he doesn't have the votes) is hilarious.

Yesterday, someone asked what AARP was doing. Turns out they're bringing it with the constituent calls! Reps have been reporting they're getting calls against the bill 1000:1.

Spicey time is a bit early today. It's supposed to start now; who knows when Spicer will show up.
posted by zachlipton at 10:03 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

So, on a totally different subject: SPECIAL ELECTION UPDATE

In the PA 197th House special, the R candidate managed to only get 7.4% of the vote...despite being the only candidate on the ballot. The D candidate has won as a write-in (there were a bunch of shenanigans about the previous rep being indicted, and people filing too late, resulting in only the R on the ballot).

The Green candidate has indicated she's suing, but that's unlikely to get far. Dem hold in this one.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:03 AM on March 24, 2017 [92 favorites]

Rodney Frelinghuysen, chairman of the appropriations committee, is a no.

I just want to highlight this. The Chair of Appropriations, which is to say the person who controls the purse strings of the federal government, one of the most powerful people in DC (and therefore in the world), a position that can only be occupied by a serious power player in the majority party, says "No."

He didn't get there on his own. One of my closest friends is on the steering committee for NJ 11th For Change, a group of Frelinghuysen's constituents who've been working tirelessly to hold him to account. Hundreds of constituents go to his office every Friday, they've held multiple town halls without the Congressman, they're getting together a fleet of buses to go to his office down in DC. And they're going to support a Democrat running against him, Frelinghuysen's first real challenger in years.

The fight to take back the house in 2018 has already started and is already having an impact.
posted by galaxy rise at 10:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [98 favorites]

Another previously uncommitted Rep., Barbara Comstock (R-VA), is a no

She's my rep, a moderate in a district that Clinton won by double digits. She is quite cagey about trying to rhetorically distance herself from the rest of the crazies but not actually voting any different from them. So that's a bad sign for this iteration of repeal-n-replace.
posted by peeedro at 10:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

CNN reporting right now that Ryan will ask Trump what to do next, telling him they don't have the votes.

If Ryan wasn't a total failure of human existence, he could make his own decisions, Congress is a co-equal branch of government capable of setting the agenda on its own. He could pull this bill and go back to the drawing board, or not. He could move on to tax cuts, or literally any other thing in the universe. Congress does not have to wait on the President's word or follow his suggested agenda.

But Ryan is above all else, a hack who has failed upwards his entire life. He's never accomplished anything other than getting himself elected, and arguably his hair did most of that work. He has no legislative achievements. His signature items have all been hack budgets that were totally unworkable and fundamentally innumerate, none of which ever came close to passing. He's never marshaled a congressional consensus on anything. He got the Speaker's gavel literally because he was the only one who would take it, and has passed basically nothing since taking over, certainly nothing of any consequence that he organized on his own without Bohener's help. He's been in Congress for almost 20 years, and has almost nothing to show for it at all. He quite literally doesn't know how to pass bills. Or how to run the House.

Ryan's Congressional career is strikingly similar to Trump's business career, and Trump's was probably superior by virtue of his talent for getting (Russian) people with far more money and success than him to bail him out.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [82 favorites]

> It's feeling an awful lot like November 8th.

I get that feeling as well. Also, like...this is a terrible bill. It's actual garbage. If it DOES fail, I feel like Ryan (or somebody waiting in the wings) will unveil a less garbage plan that will be greeted with thunderous applause because it only increases the number of uninsured Americans by 12 million.
posted by Tevin at 10:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I have a terrible feeling that Ryan's head is going to come rolling out of the Oval Office door.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 10:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Pleaseopleaseopleaseopleaseoplease let this vote go forward and crash and burn in a spectacular fireball of Trump-o-Republican incompetence o pleaseopleaseoplease
posted by darkstar at 10:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Boy, you'd think a president with 37% approval touting a bill with 17% approval would have more clout.

GOP NV Rep Amodei a nay on health care bill. On threat by Trump, says "I'm willing to take that risk."
posted by chris24 at 10:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [35 favorites]

Paul Ryan doesn't have the votes
posted by mhz at 10:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Fuckups from fucked up places trying to implement their fucked up ideology and fucking up.

I feel like there is some sort of common thread....
posted by srboisvert at 10:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's feeling an awful lot like November 8th.

At least Sam Wang isn't predicting a 99% chance that the AHCA will be voted down.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 10:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

I have a terrible feeling that Ryan's head is going to come rolling out of the Oval Office door.

Your autocorrect got confused about "terrific".
posted by howfar at 10:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

Speaking of polls....

A new Quinnipiac poll finds American voters oppose the spending cuts listed in President Trump’s proposed federal budget, including 70% to 25% against eliminating the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

By wide margins, however, American voters say other proposed cuts are a bad idea:

87% to 9% against cutting funding for medical research;
84% to 13% against cutting funding for new road and transit projects;
67% to 31% against cuts to scientific research on the environment and climate change;
83% to 14% against cutting funding for after school and summer school programs;
66% to 27% against eliminating the National Endowment for the Arts and the National Endowment for the Humanities;
79% to 17% against eliminating the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program.

Now, of course, people say they are opposed to stuff all the time, and then don't do anything about it. But these are some *really* bad numbers.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [68 favorites]

If it DOES fail, I feel like Ryan (or somebody waiting in the wings) will unveil a less garbage plan that will be greeted with thunderous applause because it only increases the number of uninsured Americans by 12 million.

This is a fair concern, but like, if there was a less horrible bill to be had here that would satisfy both the Freedom Caucus assholes and the "moderate" assholes, they'd have it on the floor right now.
posted by saturday_morning at 10:10 AM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

PA 197th is super Democratic Philly so it would have been extreme fuckery if the Republican could have pulled it out. But I'm glad to hear that even with the write-in nonsense, the line was held easily.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:10 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump demanding a vote is interesting in that sense. The last time there was vote when everyone thought he was going to lose, there was a big surprise, and he hasn't been able to stop talking about his victory ever since. Maybe he thinks that will happen every time.
posted by zachlipton at 10:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

I have a terrible feeling that Ryan's head is going to come rolling out of the Oval Office door.

But it won't roll very well, on account of the ears.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [49 favorites]

At least Sam Wang isn't predicting a 99% chance that the AHCA will be voted down.

Fun story where real life and thread life collide, I got to shoot Sam for a magazine feature this week. And he was willing to pretend to eat a cereal bowl of bugs for it. I can't show images until it runs, but he was a really nice, cool guy.
posted by chris24 at 10:12 AM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

Fun story, I got to shoot Sam

phrasing...
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Ah, another reminder that Pennsylvania has more than 197 assembly districts -- 203 to be exact -- which is ridiculous. They've been trying to pass a bill to cut that down, but it turns out that it's hard to get people to support something that will have an adverse effect on their job security.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

@sahilkapur: Message from a GOP aide: 'Comstock is a no. It's over.'

That being said, Yogi Berra's advice is still worth it, folks: it ain't over till it's over. Keep calling your representatives.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

No answer earlier at the office of PA-12's Keith Rothfus. Left a message, but I think he was probably leaning no anyway given the way the tides have turned over the past 48 hours.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:14 AM on March 24, 2017

I have a terrible feeling that Ryan's head is going to come rolling out of the Oval Office door.

He made his bed, now he gets to lie in it.

I keep on thinking about how he sucked up to Trump during the election cycle, despite the fact that Trump was supporting the tea partier that was primarying him. I keep on thinking about how he could have just kept his distance.

If there is a failure of repeal, then there will be active active poisoning of the Affordable Care Act by Congress and the Executive Branch, with that shit eating smugness of them standing around the body saying "see, told you it was failing".

They've already started with this.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:14 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

If there is a failure of repeal, then there will be active active poisoning of the Affordable Care Act by Congress and the Executive Branch, with that shit eating smugness of them standing around the body saying "see, told you it was failing".

And the response will be, correctly: "You control literally the entire government. Fix it."
posted by saturday_morning at 10:15 AM on March 24, 2017 [54 favorites]

soren_lorensen: "PA 197th is super Democratic Philly so it would have been extreme fuckery if the Republican could have pulled it out. But I'm glad to hear that even with the write-in nonsense, the line was held easily."

Oh yeah, I think the Ds have a 95/5 edge in voter registration (so, in that sense, the R over-performed). But any time you depend on a write-in, particularly when the candidate's name (Vazquez) has more than one plausible spelling....

So, that one checked off. Next is KS-4 on April 11. That isn't likely to go so hot.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:16 AM on March 24, 2017

tonycpsu: "No answer earlier at the office of PA-12's Keith Rothfus. Left a message, but I think he was probably leaning no anyway given the way the tides have turned over the past 48 hours."

Craven as always.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:18 AM on March 24, 2017

The Speaker fight would involve knives

Butch: "Well, if there ain't gonna be any rules, let's get the fight started. Someone count '1, 2, 3, go.'"
Sundance: "123Go."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

No answer earlier at the office of PA-12's Keith Rothfus.

Fucker better be working on The Doors of Stone.
posted by Etrigan at 10:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Every big loss for Trump is a good loss. Every split among the Republicans is a good split. We can't sit around thinking "if they loose this, they'll just win with something worse". For one thing, the longer things take and the madder the public gets - and the more informed the public gets - the worse things are for them.

If they actually walked all this stuff back, didn't push for the giant tax cuts, got Trump under control, passed an average, moderately stingy Republican budget, dialed back on immigration, etc - in short, ran things like an average Republican administration - they wouldn't be in trouble at midterms. But honestly, I think that if they keep on with their agenda, even if they don't succeed with much of it, they're in trouble. They are now the party of "cut medical research" and "get rid of Elmo" and "make old people pay $20,000 per year for health insurance", even if they can't actually do those things.

Also, I think the general voting public is starting to get the message on how this is entirely about tax cuts for rich people. It's just looting. If they were smart, they'd content themselves with merely egregiously enriching the richest while throwing some bones to the middle, but they want to rule like Caligula and take everything for themselves.
posted by Frowner at 10:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [100 favorites]

If there is a failure of repeal, then there will be active active poisoning of the Affordable Care Act by Congress and the Executive Branch, with that shit eating smugness of them standing around the body saying "see, told you it was failing".

I have to wonder how hard Congressional staffers would actually work to do this though, given that - I believe - they have to get their health insurance from the DC exchange.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:20 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

He said ruefully this week that he should have done tax reform first when it became clear that the quick-hit health care victory he had hoped for was not going to materialize on Thursday

Is my understanding correct that because the GOP shot their budget reconciliation wad on the health care bill that they can't use it for tax reform, assuming the health bill fails? In other words, tax reform would be subject to a Dem filibuster? Also, tax reform would be harder to achieve because they won't have already repealed the taxes put in place by the Affordable Care Act.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 10:21 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

For the rest of this thread we should refer to Trump as 'that tiny-handed gent.'
posted by Killick at 10:22 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Meanwhile, at today's meeting on feline healthcare...

Spicer is saying there will be a vote today, as if the White House gets to decide that, and that Trump has "left everything on the field" fighting for this bill, which is very much the sort of thing you say when you think you're about to lose. Spicer won't claim he has the votes, but he says "we're getting closer and closer," which just isn't true right now.

NBC's senior politics editor is making Titanic references.

This is big: "We want the vote," senior administration official says. "If they want to go against the president, they should do it on live TV." Sounds like someone in the White House is determined to see the flames rise higher, possibly because they want to force Ryan out?
posted by zachlipton at 10:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

Spicer: "Maggie, I don't want you to live tweet this." WTF?
posted by dhens at 10:25 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

For the rest of this thread we should refer to Trump as 'that tiny-handed gent.'

I saw him drinking a piña colada at Mar-a-Lago. His hair was appalling.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:25 AM on March 24, 2017 [83 favorites]

Anyone that recognizes me knows I'm dying to add snark but it's flying so fast and deep I just can not keep up.

[insert gif of fake solid gold apartment with perfect family scene with statue of liberty in the distance]
posted by sammyo at 10:26 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

ah-ooooooooo trumpwolves of floriduh
posted by lazaruslong at 10:26 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

"If they want to go against the president, they should do it on live TV."

They think that's the only way something counts, don't they.
posted by Etrigan at 10:26 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

Baghdad Sean just telegraphed that this is dead.
posted by mikelieman at 10:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Congress is a co-equal branch of government capable of setting the agenda on its own. He could pull this bill and go back to the drawing board, or not. He could move on to tax cuts, or literally any other thing in the universe. Congress does not have to wait on the President's word or follow his suggested agenda.

It makes more sense once you realize that it's not just Trump: every last one of them is an overtired toddler who's just been told they're out of their favorite breakfast cereal.

"But Daaaaaad, we were supposed to pass health care TODAY, you said we could. NOW what are we going to do?"

Now we just need someone to sternly step in and remind them that if they don't stop whining, we're not going to get to watch Daniel Tiger
posted by Mayor West at 10:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

I saw him drinking a piña colada at Mar-a-Lago. His hair was appalling.

I regret that I have but one 'like' to give.
posted by jferg at 10:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Spicer is looking *especially* tired for this briefing, and has a definite "fuck-my-life" tone in his voice while doing the stupid readout of how everything is going fine. Eager to see if he's got the energy to bring the special Spice to the Q&A.

I usually roll my eyes at reading into presenters' appearances, but oh my goodness, I've never seen him gesture this half-heartedly. This isn't the Spicer I'm used to seeing. It's 1pm on the east coast? Someone's having a loooooong day.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:28 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Y'all, we are going to lose sometimes but not like every time. One of the most heartening things recently has been seeing that the Trumpist/Republican policies are really unpopular. Their ability to lie and bullshit their way through isn't invincible--at least not when millions of Americans know there will be direct impacts on their lives and the lives of people they know and care about.
posted by overglow at 10:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

What? He's not even at the White House every day of the week, and even if he were, you don't go from "I'm Lovin' It" to "unbelievably healthy" in 60 days. I used to think these people were in a contest to see who could tell the most lies; now I'm convinced they're in a contest to see who can tell the dumbest lie.

...and have the "liberal" "dishonest" media uncritically report it.
posted by Gelatin at 10:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Now we just need someone to sternly step in and remind them that if they don't stop whining, we're not going to get to watch Daniel Tiger

If they don't stop whining, no one will since they're trying to kill PBS.
posted by Freon at 10:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Hi Sean. saturday_morning, MetaFilter. Sean, how would you like to... to just stop all this? How would you like to just walk out that door and take off your tie and walk away? How would you like to be on a sandy beach at this time tomorrow with a serious Mai Tai buzz blurring your ever-darkening memories of your time in this room, a gentle voice in your ear murmuring "you never have to go back, Sean, you never have to go back"? We can make that happen, Sean. It's all going to be okay. Shh. Shhhh. And a followup question: which charity will the President be donating his salary to?
posted by saturday_morning at 10:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [81 favorites]

Right? I don't understand the politics of politics sometimes.

My sense is that this is the 'avoidence of fault' game that went on at my last workplace. Managers and VPs weren't actively working to make the company a success, they were working to make sure the blame for failure got pinned to someone else. Ryan wants Trump to dictate the vote timing, so that when it failes he can point to the executive and say that it was Trump's ultimatum that sunk the thing. Trump wants Ryan to hold the vote so he can point to Ryan's failure to pass his signature legislative goal.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Great slip from Spicer just now: “There’s a great appetite for tax return...” then his eyes got wide & he quickly fixed it to “tax reform.”

Why yes, I am rather hungry for that, thanks
posted by miles per flower at 10:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [81 favorites]

Is "collusion between the branches of government" a problem-thing at all? Historically? Just the natural state of things?
posted by rhizome at 10:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

This is damage control for Ryan. He's trying to explain, in small words, to the Toddler-in-Chief, that losing a vote would be worse and more embarrassing for everyone, Toddler included, than not having the vote.

If he can't get that through Trump's thick skull and short attention span, then Trump will begin waging war on Ryan and the congressional Republicans, rather than just passively moving on to the next shiny object.

Ryan is trying to tip the balance toward passive neglect and the generalized anger that would cause among the GOP faithful, rather than a monumental upswell in Trump-catalyzed, vitriolic anger and hatred from the GOP base.

Either way, after the Travel Ban failed once, then was blocked a second time, and the AHCA failing, I think we can completely drop the "c" now and it's just: "The Loser".
posted by darkstar at 10:32 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Is my understanding correct that because the GOP shot their budget reconciliation wad on the health care bill that they can't use it for tax reform, assuming the health bill fails? In other words, tax reform would be subject to a Dem filibuster? Also, tax reform would be harder to achieve because they won't have already repealed the taxes put in place by the Affordable Care Act.

I'm not sure whether they can rescind the resolutions that laid out the path for AHCA under reconciliation and start over for 2017, or if they have to move onto a 2018 resolution (can they even do that? or do they have to get something done for 2017 first?). But they absolutely needed to split the tax cuts up across the two bills to get what they wanted within the Byrd rule.

And there is zero consensus among the GOP on tax reform, so it's not going to be any easier.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:32 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Now we just need someone to sternly step in and remind them that if they don't stop whining, we're not going to get to watch Daniel Tiger

If any of these goons had actually watched Mister Rogers when they were kids we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [55 favorites]

rhizome: "Is "collusion between the branches of government" a problem-thing at all? Historically? Just the natural state of things?"

Historically, there was much more branch vs branch division, and much less party vs party. Arguably, things worked okay in the earlier era. Now, not so hot.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Have been reading Pat Buchanan's magazine "The American Conservative" to get out of my bubble (and so I can pick fights with people in their Facebook comments)...

Here's their take:

So, the health care bill. It appears that the House GOP is poised to eliminate Obamacare’s rule that would protect people with pre-existing conditions from being denied insurance. They might say no, they aren’t, but that’s not really true; the protection may remain in name only.

Whatever you thought of Obamacare, that part of it was fair and necessary. Why on earth would this supposedly newly populist party want to do something that stands to hurt the most vulnerable? What kind of ideologues would do this? What kind of populist president would support it?
...
A study released this week found that mortality rates among the white working class shot up 60 percent — 60 percent! — in fewer than twenty years. It’s complicated why this is happening, but the last thing these people need is to give insurance companies an opportunity to deny them coverage. These are Trump’s people, and as Brooks indicates, he’s selling them out for the sake of a political win.

Meanwhile the Libertarian Reason Magazine:

In other words, rather than reducing health insurance premiums and increasing access to care, as Freedom Caucus members say they hope, the new rule could lead to the complete and immediate meltdown of the entire individual market. These are the sorts of problems that emerge when passing legislation becomes a purely political goal, rather than a policy objective, and when the effort is led in part by someone, in this case President Trump, who appears to have no idea what is in the bill or how it works.

We already saw in the last thread that Breitbart hates it too (link goes to twitter screenshot of Breitbart front page, not Breitbart), and Rust Moranis reported that even r/the_donald are not fans...

Fox News quotes this tweet even though they really didn't have to: If Exec branch tells Legislative branch "when 2 vote" "how 2 vote" & "what it will b allowed 2 work on if vote fails," is that a republic? - Thomas Massie

The Republican media really set the Republican party agenda these days, for better or for worse. I think most reps fear Fox News more than they fear Trump. I also think this is an opportunity for themselves to distance themselves from the possibly doomed Trump presidency (at least, I think this distancing might be a hopeful sign that it's perceived as doomed) and the increasingly unpopular Obamacare repeal plan at the same time. If they do it now, they can stick the failure to Trump, who may become a sacrificial goat...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [35 favorites]

After about the 100th question starting "If the bill fails...", Spicer pleaded, "If anyone has a question about if it PASSES, please ask it!" The reporter who interrupted asked "Would you like to have a briefing after the vote then?" To which he responded with with a cry of "NO!". I think the veil fell for a minute.
posted by jammer at 10:34 AM on March 24, 2017 [89 favorites]

So what's the problem with passing a clean repeal? You did it 50 times. Oh, wait...now that it's actually going to be SIGNED, you can't get the votes? So you never meant it to begin with. You were just hiding behind the Senate and/or Obama's veto pen. Now that the prospect of repeal is actual, suddenly you don't have the votes? Fascinating study in integrity,
posted by robbyrobs at 10:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [97 favorites]

We have some friends that we invited over for November 8. We'll eat some delicious pork shoulder (with posole), have dessert, and watch Hillary be elected!

We invited the same friends over for February 5. We'll eat some delicious pork shoulder (bo ssam style), have dessert, and well, we were't expecting it, but let's watch the Falcons beat Trump's team!

This time around, Mr. Machine met his friend in a bar last night. Mr. Machine ate a po'boy. His friend ate a burger. No pork shoulder in sight.

COME ON UNIVERSE
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [25 favorites]

Pork po'boy?
posted by kirkaracha at 10:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think you need to get new friends, sorry to say.
posted by asteria at 10:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I know we're past the Ides of March, but... Et tu, Brit?

@brithume
Trump backers saying he's really not responsible re: AHCA are, in effect, saying he's a dope taken in by evil Svengali Paul Ryan. Ridiculous
posted by chris24 at 10:38 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

That reminds me, did the Patriots ever go to the White House?
posted by asteria at 10:38 AM on March 24, 2017

Spicer: re the bill *potentially* not passing and what Trump has done to, ahem, encourage it to pass: "This isn't a dictatorship."

(yet)
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 10:38 AM on March 24, 2017

Pork po'boy

Spicer's secret service codename
posted by orange ball at 10:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

is it time to start drinking or is it really time to start drinking
posted by murphy slaw at 10:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

"Without pre-judging the way the vote will go..." [sniggers throughout the room]
posted by MattWPBS at 10:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

It isn't?!?!?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:41 AM on March 24, 2017

Speaker Fight
posted by EarBucket at 10:44 AM on March 24, 2017

"How much credit will the President take for the outcome of this bill?" [more giggles]
posted by theodolite at 10:45 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

If he can't get that through Trump's thick skull and short attention span, then Trump will begin waging war on Ryan and the congressional Republicans, rather than just passively moving on to the next shiny object.

Ryan is trying to tip the balance toward passive neglect and the generalized anger that would cause among the GOP faithful, rather than a monumental upswell in Trump-catalyzed, vitriolic anger and hatred from the GOP base.

I believe they were warned
posted by chaoticgood at 10:45 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Fucker better be working on The Doors of Stone.

You're thinking of his brother, David Lee.
posted by scalefree at 10:46 AM on March 24, 2017

SATANIC COMPETITION WITH WHITE HOUSE CONFIRMED.

JOURNALIST: "What lessons will be learned from the way this health care bill has been handled with tax reform?"
SPICER: "Well, we're very uncompetitive on tax with our otherworldly competitors..."

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Trump Mar'a'lago wgah'nagl fhtagn!
posted by MattWPBS at 10:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [46 favorites]

"Why doesn't Trump just order all the surveillance transcripts that mention his name?" (close paraphrasing)

YASSSSSS!
posted by dhens at 10:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

"Why doesn't Trump just order all the surveillance transcripts that mention his name?" (close paraphrasing)

They tried that. You'd be surprised how often "shitbag" comes up in surveillance.
posted by Etrigan at 10:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

A little something for anyone who, like me, feels like tempting the wrath of the whatever on social media
posted by saturday_morning at 10:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

wonder when they roll out the victory cake
posted by the phlegmatic king at 10:49 AM on March 24, 2017

Reporter: If you don't have the votes to pass, why have the vote?

Spicer: I'm not going to comment on our strategy.

Sean. Seany baby. C'mon. Everyone knows it's because the president doesn't know how any of this works. Just say it.
posted by zrail at 10:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [37 favorites]

A little something for anyone who, like me, feels like tempting the wrath of the whatever on social media

And if you'd like animation and soundtrack for your social media dance: You Don't Have the Votes
posted by chris24 at 10:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Yeah, so that must have been fun for Spicer, having the Press Corps laughing at him.
posted by MattWPBS at 10:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Reporter: If you don't have the votes to pass, why have the vote?

The real reason has got to be: "It looks like Trump's first infrastructure proposal is a high speed bus lane that will go right over Paul Ryan"

There's clearly a White House faction gunning for Ryan. Just look at Brietbart, which is running headlines like "REPORT: BANNON SAYS AHCA ‘WRITTEN BY THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY" and "MIDTERM SUICIDE" over this alongside a rather bad picture of Ryan. If Ryan puts this thing on the floor and it goes down in flames (and if members don't think it will pass, it will really go down in flames, because plenty of reps might be willing to vote yes if it makes a difference, but aren't signing their name to this shit for nothing), I don't know how he stays in his job.

The question is what's in it for Ryan? Trump doesn't control the House floor. What possible reason does he have to let the vote go forward.
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

God, that Major Garrett tweet is making me feel such glee

I've got a Buridan's ass situation here between either a joke about Captain Garrett or one about Minor Garrett.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:57 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oh, those sweet summer days when you could persuade a House Republican majority just by playing a movie clip of Gangster Ben Affleck saying "I need your help. I can’t tell you what it is. You can never ask me about it later. And we’re going to hurt some people."

He Is Only The Imposter: Another interesting thing is that, if this DOES fail, the Dems didn't do anything fancy to stop it. I don't mean to diminish the hard fight that has been fought, but there is no "obstruction" that the Rs can point to that shifts the blame to the Dems.

AHCA_vote.gif
posted by Rhaomi at 10:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Yeah, November is still a strong enough memory for me that I'm not counting chickens before they count votes.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

If they're gunning for Ryan, who do they want in his place? He only has that job because no one else would take it.
posted by emjaybee at 11:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Oh god, imagine Nunes failing upwards into the Speaker's chair.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:01 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

The question is what's in it for Ryan? Trump doesn't control the House floor. What possible reason does he have to let the vote go forward.

So he can say "Trump made me do it," and blame the whole debacle on Trump! Ryan has always secretly/openly hated Trump and vice versa, after all...

And then, I devoutly hope, pretend Obamacare repeal was all Trump's idea in the first place, and never mention repealing the ACA again after Trump gets impeached (knock wood.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:02 AM on March 24, 2017

Yeah, November is still a strong enough memory for me that I'm not counting chickens before they count votes.

what if the chickens are exceptionally large
posted by cortex at 11:02 AM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

You want to tempt the wrath of whatever from high atop the thing?

Also, what's Ryan's play here? Seems like a bad move to call a vote you know you're gonna lose. And Trump's not his boss.
posted by craven_morhead at 11:02 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Yeah, let's save the celebration for after the vote. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they pull this thing out at the last minute.
posted by jferg at 11:03 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

> Oh god, imagine Nunes failing upwards into the Speaker's chair.

Don't give the writers any more terrible ideas. This 2017 season is ridiculous enough already, and the ratings are going to be awful. Believe me.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:03 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

who do they want in his place?

Well technically the speaker of the house doesn't even have to be a member of congress...
posted by dilaudid at 11:03 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Does Trump know he's not Ryan's boss?

Does Ryan?
posted by asteria at 11:04 AM on March 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

Imagine what a nailbiter this must be for the hordes of medicaid-scamming lottery winners.
posted by H. Roark at 11:04 AM on March 24, 2017 [79 favorites]

I've got a different song for the afternoon.
posted by MrGuilt at 11:04 AM on March 24, 2017

And Trump's not his boss.

Depends. Do dogs consider the one they roll over and expose their balls to to be the "boss"?
posted by Etrigan at 11:04 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Wait. Am I missing something here? Yesterday everyone was saying 22 GOP defections were enough to scuttle the bill. Today Slate and NYT are saying 23 are needed. What gives?
posted by saturday_morning at 11:05 AM on March 24, 2017

> If they're gunning for Ryan, who do they want in his place? He only has that job because no one else would take it."

I am dubious regarding an implicit assumption contained within your question.
posted by kyrademon at 11:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Great slip from Spicer just now: “There’s a great appetite for tax return...” then his eyes got wide & he quickly fixed it to “tax reform.”

There's a great appetite for the blood of the innocent...

... blood of the wanton!

...

Steak! I meant to say, there's a great appetite for the blood of a medium rare steak...

*shoe flies by Spicer's head*

Well done! Well done!
posted by krinklyfig at 11:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

That reminds me, did the Patriots ever go to the White House?

Currently scheduled for April 19th, with many members of the team expected to skip the visit.

April 19th is Patriots' Day, which commemorates the Battles of Lexington and Concord. In Massachusetts, it's celebrated on the third Monday of April with reenactments, parades, and the Boston Marathon.
posted by carmicha at 11:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Another interesting thing is that, if this DOES fail, the Dems didn't do anything fancy to stop it. I don't mean to diminish the hard fight that has been fought, but there is no "obstruction" that the Rs can point to that shifts the blame to the Dems. They didn't even get the chance, really.

Which is yet another own-goal by the Republicans. The Republicans were able to do a lot of damage to the ACA thanks to the likes of Susan Collins pretending she might, just might, provide the Republican vote Obama badly wanted. This time, the Republicans were so much in triumphalist, "we're going to ram this terrible legislation thru and there's nothing you can do to stop us" mode that Democratic cover wasn't sought or desired, and Democratic opposition was presumed so much that even the media isn't invoking "partisanship" out of the fact that Democrats are a unanimous "nay."

May this pattern of Republican incompetence ever stymie their horrible agenda.
posted by Gelatin at 11:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

Does Trump know he's not Ryan's boss?

I think this is the whole thing, him thinking he's the boss not only of Congress, but the United States. Trump has got to be confused by why this isn't working! He's really stupid, and is used to everyone doing what he says.
posted by something something at 11:07 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

what if the chickens are exceptionally large

Roosters of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [49 favorites]

Trump's gonna nominate himself to be the next Speaker.
posted by Groundhog Week at 11:08 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Wait. Am I missing something here? Yesterday everyone was saying 22 GOP defections were enough to scuttle the bill. Today Slate and NYT are saying 23 are needed. What gives?

I think there's question whether Rep. Bobby Rush, a Democrat, will be there, because his wife just died the other day.
posted by zachlipton at 11:09 AM on March 24, 2017

Wait. Am I missing something here? Yesterday everyone was saying 22 GOP defections were enough to scuttle the bill. Today Slate and NYT are saying 23 are needed. What gives?

Democrat Bobby Rush of Illinois may miss the vote because his wife, Carolyn, died.
posted by carmicha at 11:10 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Can we not invoke Hamilton? Hamilton is bad luck.

A friend of mine was playing the soundtrack a month or so ago, and I nearly cried.

posted by steady-state strawberry at 11:06 AM on March 24 [+] [!]

you think that's bad?

who's got two thumbs and spent the evening of November 8th at the Richard Rodgers theater (spoiler alert: this guy).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

I just got an infection treated: I called the medical center at 1:30, got a time at another center that was open until later at 5:00, lab tests and a diagnosis before 5:45, fetched out antibiotics at a reasonably nearby pharmacy at 6:15, took my first pill in the car on the way back home.
I paid: re-calculated 17 bucks, 11 for the doctor and 6 for the medicine.
And tomorrow I can write: "what happened in Sweden yesterday."

Sorry, yes, an infection is a bit of a derail
posted by Namlit at 11:12 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Those Charter Communications jobs that Spicer was all excited about? They were announced back in October. But companies are happy to let the President of the United States give them good PR by pretending they're doing things because of Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 11:12 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

who's got two thumbs and spent the evening of November 8th at the Richard Rodgers theater (spoiler alert: this guy).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris

Boy, sometimes the universe really lays it out there for ya...
posted by Etrigan at 11:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [39 favorites]

The question is what's in it for Ryan? Trump doesn't control the House floor. What possible reason does he have to let the vote go forward.

Trump's dumb and vindictive and doesn't like being told "no." It's bad (for Ryan) to have the bill fail and the White House try to blame it entirely on the Speaker. It's worse (for Ryan) if he personally kills the vote and is 100% undeniably the cause of it not moving forward.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:15 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Loss Aversion, Trump and the New Opening for Medicare for All
posted by robbyrobs at 11:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

NCAA gives North Carolina a deadline to repeal HB2 or lose events until 2022
posted by futz at 11:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [84 favorites]

@jonNothin: This is the best one
posted by Going To Maine at 11:20 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Floor speeches by Democrats have absolutely nothing to do with what's going to happen with this bill, but if you need a shot of righteous indignation, here's one minute of amazing Rep. John Lewis material: "I oppose this bill with every breath and every bone in my body."

And holy crap: More than 200 dead in suspected U.S. airstrike that hits civilians in Mosul. They think they might have blown up a fuel truck.
posted by zachlipton at 11:22 AM on March 24, 2017 [25 favorites]

House Intelligence Committee open hearing into Russia links 'cancelled', says furious Democrat leader

"source says Nunes never told committee members he was canceling March 28 open hearing. Members didnt find out until Nunes presser today"

"Nunes essentially blew up the investigation because he realized the scope of what he negotiated with Schiff could actually threaten Trump."
posted by leotrotsky at 11:22 AM on March 24, 2017 [87 favorites]

Ryan Lizza (twitter): Senior White House official on House healthcare vote: "March or die."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:26 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

ABC News: FBI Director James Comey is at the White House. No word yet on why...
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

I also will feel less nervous once the bill is officially dead. But here's part of why I'm optimistic right now--watching this unfold the past few days, I've realized how central optics and expectations are to the Congressional negotiation process. The White House/House GOP Leadership had to stay publicly optimistic and keep saying they would win because otherwise they wouldn't have a chance. That's why various factions and Representatives kept making announcements and talking with the press--they're fighting in the realm of expectations.

Right now, the word on the D.C. Twitter is that the vote will fail. That impacts the choices and risk assessment of various Representatives. To even have a chance, they'd need to shift the narrative/climate/expectations.

And right now, no one seems to be doing that.
posted by overglow at 11:28 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Dr Chuck Tingle's take as offered on buttbart.com: Trompcare Revision Cuts Coverage For All Humans While Expanding Healthcare To Cosmic Horrors Of The Void.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

Ryan Lizza (twitter): Senior White House official on House healthcare vote: "March or die."

let's take bets: was it a) Bannon b) Priebus c) Andrew Jackson from beyond the grave
posted by saturday_morning at 11:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Attorney for "Frozen Trucker": Neil Gorsuch May Have Been Most Hostile Judge I've Ever Encountered
posted by homunculus at 11:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

"Pray with me, Henry."
posted by Chrysostom at 11:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

ABC News: FBI Director James Comey is at the White House. No word yet on why...

Donald! Hey, you want that failed healthcare bill out of the headlines tomorrow morning? Yeah! Follow me.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

"Nunes essentially blew up the investigation because he realized the scope of what he negotiated with Schiff could actually threaten Trump."
posted by leotrotsky at 11:22 AM on March 24 [15 favorites −] [!]

Uhhhh IANAL but this seems like it should be illegal, in a conspiratorial sort of way

I will be sooooo happy if we can add Nunes to the list of people who have to worry about prison
posted by schadenfrau at 11:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

Bannon Tells Trump: ‘Keep a Shit List’ of Republicans Who Opposed You

According to multiple Trump administration officials speaking to The Daily Beast on the condition of anonymity to talk freely, the president is angry that his first big legislative push is crumbling before his eyes—and his chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon is advising him to take names and keep a hit list of Republicans who worked for Trumpcare’s defeat.

“[Bannon] has told the president to keep a shit list on this,” one official told The Daily Beast. “He wants a running tally of [the Republicans] who want to sink this…Not sure if I’d call it an ‘enemies list,’ per se, but I wouldn’t want to be on it.”

posted by futz at 11:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Bannon Tells Trump: ...

This.
posted by Melismata at 11:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

On the bright side, this seems like a good way to push up impeachment.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Bannon Tells Trump: ‘Keep a Shit List’ of Republicans Who Opposed You

Dude, yes, by all means slice and dice your majority into ever smaller and smaller factions. That's the ticket!
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [89 favorites]

More from the Shit List article.

...Bannon wants the tally of “against” versus “with us” mounted in his so-called West Wing “war room.”

“Burn the boats,” Bannon (in his typical, pugnacious style) advised Trump, according to one official involved. Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

Sources also said that others including Mick Mulvaney, Trump's director of the Office of Management and Budget and co-founder of the House Freedom Caucus, endorsed the idea of the running list, and that Trump agreed with the idea.
posted by futz at 11:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

“[Bannon] has told the president to keep a shit list on this,” one official told The Daily Beast. “He wants a running tally of [the Republicans] who want to sink this…Not sure if I’d call it an ‘enemies list,’ per se, but I wouldn’t want to be on it.”

There's only so many people you can put on an enemies list before it becomes far easier to keep track of who's still willing to put up with your shit.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [44 favorites]

>Not sure if I’d call it an ‘enemies list,’ per se, but I wouldn’t want to be on it.”

Why would you be unsure if you'd call it exactly what it is?

In any case, good, let them drink each other's blood. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

According to Omarosa Manigault he already has a list.

“It’s so great our enemies are making themselves clear so that when we get in to the White House, we know where we stand,” Manigault told Independent Journal Review at Trump’s election night party on Wednesday.
...
“I would never judge anybody for exercising their right to and the freedom to choose who they want. But let me just tell you, Mr. Trump has a long memory and we’re keeping a list.”

posted by kirkaracha at 11:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

The question is what's in it for Ryan? Trump doesn't control the House floor. What possible reason does he have to let the vote go forward.

Trump's dumb and vindictive and doesn't like being told "no." It's bad (for Ryan) to have the bill fail and the White House try to blame it entirely on the Speaker. It's worse (for Ryan) if he personally kills the vote and is 100% undeniably the cause of it not moving forward.

Ryan's great weakness compared with a genuine narcissist like Trump is that he actually cares about things other than his image. The things he cares about are reprehensible things like starving grannies, but he still cares about them.

Trump is free to just veto everything else Ryan passes out of pure spite, for instance. Trump has no agenda other than enriching and aggrandising Trump, so there's no downside for him to such an (insane) strategy. And Ryan has nothing to retaliate with because, again, Trump has no agenda. (I don't consider impeachment a realistic threat coming from Ryan, at least at this stage. The case needs more time to build before he can be sure that 2/3 of the Senate will actually vote to convict.)
posted by tobascodagama at 11:38 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

"Do everything Nixon did, but in public" has been working great so far so I dunno
posted by theodolite at 11:38 AM on March 24, 2017 [53 favorites]

216. That's the magic number. 'Why are you all so negative?'

Smiling whilst backing this shit
posted by Myeral at 11:39 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

ABC News: FBI Director James Comey is at the White House. No word yet on why...

did he bring handcuffs
posted by beerperson at 11:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [66 favorites]

but like, custom-sized tiny handcuffs
posted by beerperson at 11:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [109 favorites]

Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

I'm no military historian, but pretty sure you're not supposed to do this while you're still ON the boats...
posted by neroli at 11:42 AM on March 24, 2017 [59 favorites]

Do you suppose any Republican MoC's are thinking how cushy and secure their jobs would have been with HRC in the whitehouse?
posted by klarck at 11:43 AM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

but like, custom-sized tiny handcuffs

F.B.I. TO SPECIAL-ORDER A PAIR OF TINY HANDCUFFS
posted by leotrotsky at 11:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Even Newt thinks this is stupid: "Why would you schedule a vote on a bill that is at 17% approval? Have we forgotten everything Reagan taught us?"
posted by zachlipton at 11:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

ABC News: FBI Director James Comey is at the White House. No word yet on why...

did he bring handcuffs

If so, hopefully it goes better than that other time the head of a major law enforcement agency tried to arrest a corrupt head of state.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

>Have we forgotten everything Reagan taught us?"

Why, did Reagan teach them something besides 'be smug and cut taxes'?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Even Newt thinks this is stupid: "Why would you schedule a vote on a bill that is at 17% approval? Have we forgotten everything Reagan taught us?"

@BeauWillimon: This is Trump using lackey @newtgingrich to shift blame to @SpeakerRyan when #Trumpcare proves to be an Epic Fail.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump is free to just veto everything else Ryan passes out of pure spite, for instance. Trump has no agenda other than enriching and aggrandising Trump, so there's no downside for him to such an (insane) strategy.

im not so sure, isn't the tethering of Trump to the GOP the thing that is currently providing him his best defense against impending impeachment?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

“I would never judge anybody for exercising their right to and the freedom to choose who they want. But let me just tell you, Mr. Trump has a long memory and we’re keeping a list.”

Goddd, these creeps love the "I would never say X, but X" construction
posted by the phlegmatic king at 11:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

F.B.I. TO SPECIAL-ORDER A PAIR OF TINY HANDCUFFS

oh god i made a borowitz joke

death is too good for me
posted by beerperson at 11:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [56 favorites]

Rykey: He's not even at the White House every day of the week, and even if he were, you don't go from "I'm Lovin' It" to "unbelievably healthy" in 60 days.

Fun fact: it's a lot of work for a President to casually dine out, involving weeks to months of secretive preparation, background checks, and watching the food as it's prepared. You can't really roll up to a drive-thru and order a burger as the US president. I can see Trump not being one to plan well enough for such events, so he eats in more than not.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

>I'm no military historian, but pretty sure you're not supposed to do this while you're still ON the boats...

Well, that depends on how committed you are to ensuring the "die trying" end result. Bannon is pretty fucking committed.
posted by lydhre at 11:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

@BeauWillimon: This is Trump using lackey @newtgingrich to shift blame to @SpeakerRyan when #Trumpcare proves to be an Epic Fail.

If so he did a very bad job at that, since it's been reported far and wide that Ryan wanted to kill the vote but the White House insisted that it happen this afternoon. By not explicitly naming Ryan it reads as anger against Trump.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

dilaudid: Well technically the speaker of the house doesn't even have to be a member of congress...

I know a young woman with some executive experience -- and hey, she already has an office in the White House!
posted by wenestvedt at 11:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump is free to just veto everything else Ryan passes out of pure spite...

im not so sure, isn't the tethering of Trump to the GOP the thing that is currently providing him his best defense against impending impeachment?

trump probably just assumes he can veto an impeachment.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

House intel source says Nunes trying to "suicide bomb" House Russia investigation w this week's actions
posted by leotrotsky at 11:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Goddd, these creeps love the "I would never say X, but X" construction

Apophasis
posted by rhizome at 11:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

>> Pork po'boy
> Spicer's secret service codename

I was hoping for Spiceweasel
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 11:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

I know a young woman with some executive experience -- and hey, she already has an office in the White House!

Hillary Clinton?
posted by beerperson at 11:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Looking forward to Paul Ryan stepping down to spend more time with
his $700-Wine-Sipping Buddies: Hedge Fund Manager And University Of Chicago Economist.
posted by robbyrobs at 11:52 AM on March 24, 2017

FWIW, the Senate Sergeant at Arms is the only person with the legal authority to arrest the President.
posted by schmod at 11:54 AM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

I can not fully articulate how much happiness the GOP, especially that phony Paul Ryan, is giving me. The fools might be steering the car, but the rabble rousers in the back seat are creating a ruckus. Thank you all for voicing their opinions to their Reps. Even the idiot Paula Tenney from my district is now waffling. Not likely on principle mind you, but because she is a lame excuse for personhood and has no principles other than getting re-elected.

This may be only a temporary win but today I will relish in the fact that donald trump loses big.

I fucking hate donald trump.
posted by bluesky43 at 11:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

$700 worth of wine? Yikes! That's over 233 bottles!

Three-buck cuck?
posted by rhizome at 11:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

im not so sure, isn't the tethering of Trump to the GOP the thing that is currently providing him his best defense against impending impeachment?

Impeaching him would probably hurt congressional Republicans less than this shitty bill, too.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

First off: everyone stop what you're doing and TTTCS right fucking now.

Secondly: if Trump manages to force the vote and it crashes and burns I amend my prediction of impeachment to, oh, June.
posted by lydhre at 11:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

The fools might be steering the car, but the rabble rousers in the back seat are creating a ruckus

Seinfeld did it
posted by rhizome at 11:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

FWIW, the Senate Sergeant at Arms is the only person with the legal authority to arrest the President.

I've been wondering if this is true for any crimes committed before he took office. Usually in law, that matters. If he committed the crimes before he took office, he shouldn't have immunity, I would think.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Impeaching him would probably hurt congressional Republicans less than this shitty bill, too.

The House could impeach Trump with a simple majority, but to get rid of him the Senate vote needs to be two-thirds, which means they need would Democrats. Which also means, much as the Democrats would love to oust him, they could possibly ask for some concessions in return.
posted by Gelatin at 11:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Vote still slated for 3:30 pm ET. NYT will have a live, member by member tally.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Taking another's little peek at /r/the_donald's "rising submissions" tab. Rank and titles:

#2: Paul Ryan is done after today. Press S to spit on his grave.
#5: DEMAND THIS MAN RESIGNS THE SPEAKERSHIP FOR DRAGGING TRUMP THROUGH THE MUD ON THIS CRAPSHOOT HEALTH CARE BILL
#9: Paul Ryan is a disgrace, he should resign and let someone far more qualified take over as Speaker, "Rowdy" Trey Gowdy

heh. heh heh.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

I mean, otherwise being POTUS is like a get of jail free card for anybody who can get into office. That can't be "rule of law," can it?
posted by saulgoodman at 12:00 PM on March 24, 2017

Impeaching him would probably hurt congressional Republicans less than this shitty bill, too.

Part of me thinks that the only thing preventing the Republicans from impeaching and convicting Trump and replacing him with Pence -- who would sign every piece of shitty reactionary legislation the Rs could dream of -- is that the animating philosophy of the conservative movement leads them to want to keep Trump to "stick it to the libs."
posted by dhens at 12:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

dhens: Spicer: "Maggie, I don't want you to live tweet this." WTF?

Odd tangent: Archive.org used to include tweets, and thanks to its awesome "if we don't have a live page, we'll add it," you could both bypass filters that blocked Twitter AND archive the tweets.

But today Twitter's Robots.txt file blocks Archive.org from crawling the pages, and I can't read their robots.txt file because I can't visit Twitter (and if you try viewing it on a mobile device, you get forwarded to mobile.twitter.com, which doesn't include the robots.txt file).
posted by filthy light thief at 12:01 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

If I were a Republican Congresscritter, I'd say that I would consider being on Trump's "shit list" would be a mark of honor* and would significantly improve their reelection chances in '18.

*but then, it has been decades since Republicans gave a shit about "honor"
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

"Rep. Chris Collins (R-NY), a key Trump ally in Congress, said part of the problem predicting Friday's vote result is that communications have broken down among House Republicans. "I've never seen this. People are refusing to talk to each other. They're storming past each other. This is not good," he told reporters. "There is bitterness within our conference that's going to take time to heal."

I am having another lie down.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:03 PM on March 24, 2017 [154 favorites]

Which also means, much as the Democrats would love to oust him, they could possibly ask for some concessions in return.

Those famous strong-arm Democrats
posted by beerperson at 12:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

SPECIAL ELECTION UPDATE:

New poll in GA-06:

First round:

Ossoff (D): 40
Handel (R): 20
Gray (R): 10
Hill (R): 10
Moody (R): 8

Ossoff in runoffs:

42-41 vs. Handel
44-42 vs. Gray
44-45 vs. Hill
46-44 vs. Moody

posted by Chrysostom at 12:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [38 favorites]

Hold the vote, sir, tiny hands, sir.
Comes the headlight of the subway.
Swear revenge on the defectors.
You had a busy day today.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

@Reuters: JUST IN: Trump says House Speaker Ryan should stay on as leader even if healthcare bill fails.

Am I wrong in thinking that it would have been considered a huge transgression if any previous president had opined publically about the internecine workings of the Congressional leadership structure?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

Am I wrong in thinking that it would have been considered a huge transgression

This is not normal. None of this is normal. Furthermore the president gives zero fucks toward historical norms.
posted by zrail at 12:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [29 favorites]

Am I wrong in thinking that it would have been considered a huge transgression if any previous president had opined publically about the internecine workings of the Congressional leadership structure?

Surely this...
posted by Mayor West at 12:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

All I know is they better have a vote on this fucker before I leave work today.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

if, say, it comes out a president committed murder before taking office after he assumes office,
Of course, Donald would never hold a murder weapon in his own tiny hands, he'd just give a verbal order... or tweet it. (Please remember that all the bodies in the concrete foundations of Trump Buildings are the victims of his mobster pals)
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

the president gives zero fucks toward historical norms.

The president doesn't know what a historical norm is.
posted by Melismata at 12:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Was that the Kiss of Death?
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 12:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ryan Lizza (twitter): Senior White House official on House healthcare vote: "March or die."

Got a Motörhead fan in the West Wing
posted by Existential Dread at 12:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump says House Speaker Ryan should stay on as leader even if healthcare bill fails.

That makes sense, otherwise Trump has to go through the whole process of humiliating a new Speaker, and we know how much he hates any sort of work.
posted by mikepop at 12:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

We've gone from Black Mirror to Survivor.
posted by archimago at 12:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Going to hurl myself against the wall
'Cause I'd rather feel bad than nothing at all

AND IT AIN'T THAT PRETTY AT ALL

Zevon's entire career can be used for this thread, maybe.
posted by dilettante at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

“Burn the boats,” Bannon (in his typical, pugnacious style) advised Trump, according to one official involved. Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

Arthas Menethil did this too! Great, next thing you know we'll have a Lich King, and those are next to impossible to get rid of.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

The president doesn't know what a historical norm is.

"Historical Norm, an example of somebody who's done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more."
posted by mikepop at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [82 favorites]

the president gives zero fucks toward historical norms.

The president thinks"historical norm" was the guy on Cheers who looks like Chris Christie.
</rimshot>
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

The president doesn't know what a historical norm is.

Literally. If he ever finds out, expect a speech where he tells the country, "Not a lot of people know this, but governments run on unspoken historical norms that aren't written down anywhere."
posted by tobascodagama at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [50 favorites]

Ryan Lizza (twitter): Senior White House official on House healthcare vote: "March or die."

Got a Motörhead fan in the West Wing
posted by Existential Dread

Think bigger. This whole weird train picked up speed right when Lemmy died. You're just seeing proof that this is all his ghost pulling the strings, probably trying to immanentize the eschaton
posted by the phlegmatic king at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump probably feels that if he can magnanimously allow Ryan to "stay on," he'll have power over him. Leverage. Bring on the meatloaf, etc.
posted by lydhre at 12:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

but like, custom-sized tiny handcuffs

You know who else had tiny hands?

No, not Hitler, but Billy the Kid, who had big wrists and small hands which made it no problem to slip cuffs and escape.

So yeah, we're gonna need some special cuffs for Donny.
posted by chris24 at 12:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Donald would never hold a murder weapon in his own tiny hands, he'd just give a verbal order... or tweet it.
Who will rid me of this "meddlesome" speaker?
posted by j_curiouser at 12:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Any legal experts who know for sure how it's supposed to work if, say, it comes out a president committed murder before taking office after he assumes office, please memail me or offer a hot take on that question for me.

Since the President can pardon himself for any crime, so long as he is still President, the only legal remedy for any felony commited by the President is impeachment. I suppose the President could choose *not* to pardon himself, so, technically, the DoJ could bring down indictments against a sitting President, arrest him, put him on trial, etc. But the pardon power means this is never even considered, in practice.
posted by dis_integration at 12:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Who will rid me of this meddlesome speaker?

I don't think that Trump would get this historical allusion. I also don't think that he would understand what an "allusion" is.
posted by dhens at 12:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

next thing you know we'll have a Lich King, and those are next to impossible to get rid of.

I read that as "Lice King" and was just going to recommend a medicated shampoo.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

House intel source says Nunes trying to "suicide bomb" House Russia investigation w this week's actions

Does that mean we can stop Republicans at the border now?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

Can somebody translate this Ben Shapiro tweet?

Convenient how Trump flips from all-powerful master negotiator to well-intentioned simpleton duped by Snidely Ryan at the drop of a hat.

My Trump-loving state rep just retweeted it, but I'm confused because isn't Shapiro mocking Trump here?
posted by diogenes at 12:20 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

I...I feel like this thread title is just asking for me to "eponysterical" myself.

Is that a thing? Can I do that?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

My Trump-loving state rep just retweeted it, but I'm confused because isn't Shapiro mocking Trump here?

Yeah, I got a feeling the honeymoon is over and even pretenses of supporting Trump are falling by the wayside. I've been wrong a lot, but could an actual, for real #NeverTrump wing of the GOP really come out of this?
posted by mikelieman at 12:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm not surprised, diogenes.

Is self awareness really something we've ever seen on display with this group? Didn't the actual White House tweet a satirical "this is why Trump is great!" article simple because of the title?
posted by absalom at 12:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

> isn't Shapiro mocking Trump here?

Sure is. Either your rep is scurrying off the sinking ship or they just have a case of the stupids.
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 12:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

The anal wart in a suit doling out time for the Republicans and vomiting cancerous fumes of lexical sulphur upon the nation, who VOTES for that?!? WTF?!?

WHEN SOMETHING FALLS OFF SATAN'S ASS DON'T PUT IT IN CHARGE FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!

You shall know them by their warts.
posted by riverlife at 12:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

" could an actual, for real #NeverTrump wing of the GOP really come out of this?"

No, because Trump already happened, they'll have to be #NotAgainTrump or something like that. It's too late for do-overs, they're already Vichy Republicans complicit in the Trumpening.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [25 favorites]

Sure is. Either your rep is scurrying off the sinking ship or they just have a case of the stupids.

And this is a guy who wore a "special snowflake" bow tie to Trump's inauguration.
posted by diogenes at 12:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Alexandra Petri on fire: President Trump’s broken timeline

President Trump has come unstuck in time.

Years pass, and his hair grows blonder and the women around him grow younger and younger. He is a paradox.

Or maybe he is cursed. Everything he says is true, just not necessarily at the moment he says it.

posted by zachlipton at 12:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

No, because Trump already happened, they'll have to be #NotAgainTrump or something like that. It's too late for do-overs, they're already Vichy Republicans complicit in the Trumpening.

Yeah, but they CAN make sure that nothing he promised gets passed. It's not the best of all possible worlds, but it's better than what we seem to be getting.
posted by mikelieman at 12:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Alexandra Petri has singlehandedly stopped me from hating everybody from Harvard and everyone who is both younger than me and more famous. no one else could do that except god and he isn't real
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:30 PM on March 24, 2017 [35 favorites]

GOP members holding closed door conference meeting imminently.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

House is all of a sudden in recess.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

GOP members holding closed door conference meeting imminently.

You know what to do bees!
posted by diogenes at 12:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

Whoa! They just recessed the House!
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

No vote today!
posted by sporkwort at 12:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

House is all of a sudden in recess.

Don't tell me, let me guess. Printer's broken again, Ryan?
posted by corb at 12:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Yeah, I see the vote is now "expected later today". You craven motherfuckers, get to it.
posted by lydhre at 12:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I also don't think that he would understand what an "allusion" is.

of course he does, it's like a magic trick
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

MEDIOCRE!!!!!!
posted by Existential Dread at 12:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

Uhhhhh. From Costa: "President Trump just called me. Still on phone. "We just pulled it," he tells me."
posted by zachlipton at 12:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

House into recess against Democratic calls of "Vote!"

Republicans going into immediate conference, it looks like. Come on and do it already, chickenshits.
posted by jammer at 12:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Sad!
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

> Uhhhhh. From Costa: "President Trump just called me. Still on phone. "We just pulled it," he tells me."

Yeah, but what about the bill?

(Seriously, though, good news that makes me wish we could post reaction GIFs here.)
posted by tonycpsu at 12:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Ryan is giving "an update" at 4pm Eastern.

Are you tired of all this winning yet?
posted by zachlipton at 12:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Ryan: I'll give an update on health care reform at 4pm → ET
posted by cybertaur1 at 12:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

You can't spell closer without l-o-s-e-r. (stolen)
posted by diogenes at 12:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

"I don't blame Paul," Trump tells Costa

Uh huh
posted by saturday_morning at 12:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Sad? No, Hilarious!
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:37 PM on March 24, 2017

I just spent the last XX comments trying to figure out WTF TTTCS meant.

Turn the TV To C Span?
posted by yoga at 12:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

A head-turning moment.
posted by adamg at 12:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

“Burn the boats,” Bannon (in his typical, pugnacious style) advised Trump, according to one official involved. Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

The fun part about his is that it is a war metaphor about an invasion. Offensive military strategy when facing a strong defense.

But there is no defending force. There are no fortifications. Also it's their own land and they already rule it.

But being morons they laid a seige and dug their latrines directly in their own path.
posted by srboisvert at 12:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [55 favorites]

I feel like I need a cigarette.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

I promise you'll enjoy this picture of Ryan leaving the White House.
posted by diogenes at 12:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [67 favorites]

Low energy soren_lorensen is failing badly!
posted by Chrysostom at 12:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

You guys! Work is interfering with my obsessive watching of congressional politics! Help!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

But being morons they laid a seige and dug their latrines directly in their own path.

It's the Charge of the Shite Brigade.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

Dammit, Ryan, I've been waiting all day to post that Hamilton animatic to Facebook, and now you're making me keep my powder dry longer yet.
posted by Gelatin at 12:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I just spent the last XX comments trying to figure out WTF TTTCS meant.

Turn the TV To C Span?
posted by tobascodagama at 12:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

yoga, Turn, Turn, Turn, Curse, Spit.
posted by lydhre at 12:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

So... Trump's tough-guy act, his walking away from the table, his daring them to put it to a vote so he could put the No votes on his shit list... all a bluff. Ryan called it and he lost. Our master negotiator deal-closing president just got his ass handed to him.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:40 PM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

Best birthday ever.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:40 PM on March 24, 2017 [83 favorites]

ArbitraryAndCapricious: "You guys! Work is interfering with my obsessive watching of congressional politics! Help!"

This is why I quit my job.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:40 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

The last fifteen minutes have made me sublimely happy. Let's hope we get even better news in the next twenty.
posted by obtuser at 12:40 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

So everybody still has insurance through the weekend? Cool. Kegger on the water tower, everybody!
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

So does this leave the door open to them just trying again in a months time with a different shitty bill?
posted by Artw at 12:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

AP is reporting the bill is withdrawn.
posted by corb at 12:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

So does this leave the door open to them just trying again in a months time with a different shitty bill?

How would the outcome be any different?
posted by saturday_morning at 12:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

The most telling this about all of this is that Trump personally called up Costa to spin the moment this thing died, and Costa is live-tweeting it. That's surreal.

This is equally surreal: Source says "You can't always get what you want" is playing in the House conference meeting

What is even happening?
posted by zachlipton at 12:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [75 favorites]

Soooo uhhhhh whatever happened with Comey at the White House, then? Is he still there, or...?
posted by Andrhia at 12:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

shouldn't the republicans be forced to bring the bill to term
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [262 favorites]

So does this leave the door open to them just trying again in a months time with a different shitty bill?

No idea, but they have humiliated themselves so thoroughly in public it's hard to see them getting their shit together to try again.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

"You Can't Always Get What You Want" apparently playing in GOP conference room.

[real!]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

@AlecMacGillis: There's an actual massive junkyard fire underway right now just up 95 from Washington. Feel free to use as metaphor.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

Republicans embody White Male Privilege and the Abuser utterly. Just, we will do whatever. Failed 50 times to repeal Obamacare, no thing, we'll just of course totally ram the shit down your throats good and hard the 51st. Wait. Or maybe not, maybe we'll just take our ball and go home haha, whatever. We've done this shit forever to all of you and we'll keep doing this shit forever to all of you.
posted by riverlife at 12:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Turns out people have some idea of what constitutes a shitty bill, so I'd bet more on chipping away at the existing.
posted by rhizome at 12:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is equally surreal: Source says "You can't always get what you want" is playing in the House conference meeting

It was creepy at the RNC, and it's creepy now. Is this all just an elaborate troll? I can't even tell anymore.
posted by corb at 12:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

So does this leave the door open to them just trying again in a months time with a different shitty bill?

Sure, but they'll still be dealing with the same problem. The problem isn't about this particular shitty bill. It's that there's no healthcare plan that is acceptable to their entire coalition, and anything that could come close would be a disaster for the people who vote for them. There's not really a good solution to that, and I don't think one is going to materialize in a month or two.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

The Sunday gabfests are going to be hilarious.
posted by Gelatin at 12:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Meanwhile, clerk.house.gov is down.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

"You Can't Always Get What You Want" apparently playing in GOP conference room.

Hopefully the polka Weird Al version...
posted by Melismata at 12:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

guys you laugh now but right this moment paul ryan is writing HR 1724 on a copy of A Modest Proposal
posted by beerperson at 12:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

Every time the Republicans have a lousy, coalition-fracturing failure, they are making it harder to work together to pass a bill. Right now, presumably, lasting enmities are being forged among vengeful, petty people who are not really very good at policy. The more they hate each other, the more working together seems noxious, the more the narcissism of small differences is in play - the harder they'll find it to pass another healthcare bill. Kick the can down the road as far possible and they may just kick it to pieces.
posted by Frowner at 12:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [81 favorites]

It was creepy at the RNC, and it's creepy now. Is this all just an elaborate troll? I can't even tell anymore.

Trigger for the post-hypnotic suggestions?
posted by tobascodagama at 12:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

This President ain’t much.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:46 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I know it is perverse but in a way I wanted this bill to pass so all the MoFos that voted for Trump would see/feel/experience their world without healthcare or greatly increased premiums.
And yes I know passing of this bill would have affected those that did not support/vote for Trump in regard to that factor it is a good thing this bill is toast however, I am sure the dismantles of the safety net (at least whats left of it) are not done with their evil work.
posted by robbyrobs at 12:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

a TV idiot is the president, all ironic musical cues are now diegetic
posted by theodolite at 12:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

Sure, but they'll still be dealing with the same problem. The problem isn't about this particular shitty bill. It's that there's no healthcare plan that is acceptable to their entire coalition, and anything that could come close would be a disaster for the people who vote for them. There's not really a good solution to that, and I don't think one is going to materialize in a month or two.

This entire debacle has shown that there isn't even really a bad solution to the Republican dilemma, as not even throwing ever-more-Draconian concessions to the so-called House Freedom Caucus worked.
posted by Gelatin at 12:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

So does this leave the door open to them just trying again in a months time with a different shitty bill?

Aren't they up against at least some sort of deadline? The current CR runs through April 28. Don't they have to do it before then?

(At least if they're going to do with budget reconciliation?)
posted by sporkwort at 12:47 PM on March 24, 2017

The spinning is starting. GOP leadership is saying Trump asked Ryan to pull the bill, while the White House is saying Trump wanted a vote and Ryan "pleaded to pull" it. They're going to tear each other to pieces.

Costa says he's typing up his story now, so I'm sure we'll have unhinged reaction from the President shortly.
posted by zachlipton at 12:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

SWEET CLYDE! LAUGH DERISIVELY AT PAUL RYAN!

Ojala que Sweet Clyde is one tired, sore-throated motherfucker at the end of this year...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

This entire debacle has shown that there isn't even really a bad solution to the Republican dilemma, as not even throwing ever-more-Draconian concessions to the so-called House Freedom Caucus worked.

That's from the POV of the GOP, right? Because from outside the GOP, this is a great solution. They took their best shots TWICE, failed both times. Third time you get laughed at for even pretending you have a chance.
posted by mikelieman at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Reward yourself by cuddling with a toucan
posted by rhizome at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

meta: after all the seriosity in #45 threads, the third-rate one liners and zevon-ing are making me lol. thanks! maybe 'gallows humor', but i don't mind. keep it up!
posted by j_curiouser at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

House into recess against Democratic calls of "Vote!"

Please, sir, may I have video of Dems taunting Rs?
posted by NorthernLite at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Trump asked Ryan to pull the bill

Again, I don't think Trump is smart enough to do any such thing.
posted by Melismata at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm refreshing Robert Costa's twitter feed as fast as I can.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

They're going to tear each other to pieces.

Jesus Christ this will be fun
posted by saturday_morning at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [50 favorites]

It was creepy at the RNC, and it's creepy now. Is this all just an elaborate troll? I can't even tell anymore.

Trigger for the post-hypnotic suggestions?

"Donald Trump is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life!"

Now I have to go wash my hands just for typing that.
posted by Gelatin at 12:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Tired of winning yet guys?
posted by MattWPBS at 12:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Costa is actually on MSNBC live now.
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

@TedLieu: Views of my constituents on #Trumpcare:
Opposed: 700,000
Not sure: 3
Support: 1 person named Guccifer
posted by Existential Dread at 12:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [96 favorites]

Costa says he's typing up his story now, so I'm sure we'll have unhinged reaction from the President shortly.

@molly_knight: Trump, who tells his followers that the Washington Post is fake news, calls the Washington Post to tell them his health care bill is dead.

@DavidCornDC: Costa on MSNBC: Trump says bill won’t be coming back in near future & he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [70 favorites]

this is basically the best possible outcome short of the proposed bill bursting into flames in ryan's hand and consuming him in a matter of seconds
posted by murphy slaw at 12:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [55 favorites]

the third-rate one liners

Hey! My one liners are SECOND-rate!
posted by Chrysostom at 12:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Yeah, Costa just said that Trump claimed responsibility for pulling it.
posted by jferg at 12:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

Bring your single payer A games, people!

(I still content that what Trump's base really wants is single payer, they just need it to not come from liberals so they aren't contractually obligated to hate it.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [53 favorites]

There won't be another bill (that can pass). A healthcare system that covers similar numbers of people without raising costs, and isn't either single payer or a refined version of ObamaCare/RomneyCare is literally impossible.
posted by diogenes at 12:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Trump needs to be slammed for this failure. It undermines his central argument for his presidency:

"Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it."

posted by kirkaracha at 12:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [44 favorites]

They can't get to the right of Obamacare with anything acceptable/believable as real insurance to their base and moderates because Obamacare is the right's answer to conservative "universal" coverage. And they spent 8 years pretending their own solution was a partisan Democrat thing and now have to reap the whirlwind.
posted by chris24 at 12:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

“Burn the boats,” Bannon (in his typical, pugnacious style) advised Trump, according to one official involved. Burning one’s boats is a reference to when military commanders in hostile territories order his or her troops to destroy their own ships, so that they have to win or die trying.

What fucking idiot tries to communicate with Trump in metaphors or historical references? Trump probably thinks you burn the boats just because fire looks cool.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

man, the line to claim that you never liked this bill and were just going along in the name of party unity is getting pretty long already
posted by murphy slaw at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

@DavidCornDC: Costa on MSNBC: Trump says bill won’t be coming back in near future & he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

medicare for all or eat shit motherfucker
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [82 favorites]

That's from the POV of the GOP, right? Because from outside the GOP, this is a great solution. They took their best shots TWICE, failed both times. Third time you get laughed at for even pretending you have a chance.

Absolutely. Of course, if the Republicans weren't a pack of despicable quislings, they could work with Democrats to fix several of the acknowledged problems of the ACA -- the Democrats would probably even let them get away with claiming they "repealed and replaced" it, since constituents would actually be getting better health insurance. But as noted previously, the Republicans won't do that, because it'd mean they have to admit the Federal Government does have a legitimate role to play in the lives of American citizens.
posted by Gelatin at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump: I don't blame Paul Ryan. I blame myself. I had a sudden revelation that I am an unpopular president pressing an unpopular agenda, perhaps comparable to a defecation-tossing small arboreal ape of the family Hylobatidae. But I have learned from my mistakes and from now on will not shift blame and will humbly strive to do better. [fake]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Greg Nog: "This is a great outcome for a lot of reasons, but most important is that I quite like sotonohito and this means he will get to eat a delicious cake for all of us"

Ditto.

...Say, sotonohito, any chance you could, say, guarantee there is no way Trump is impeached in the next month?
posted by Chrysostom at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

> [Trump says] he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

Oh, now he'll see if the Democrats will work with him?

FUCK YOU, CLOWN! FUCK YOU!
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump hangs up with the Post and chats to the [Failing New York] Times. What the hell is he doing?

TRUMP tells me in interview this is now the Democrats' fault, and that he anticipates that when Obama "explodes" they will be ready to deal

[I assume that's Twitter shorthand for Obamacare, not the actual guy.]
posted by zachlipton at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

work with Dems on healthcare

oh that's what dread feels like
posted by schadenfrau at 12:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

medicare for all or eat shit motherfucker

Only Nixon could go to China. Maybe only Trump and the Rs can pass single payer.
posted by anastasiav at 12:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

TRUMP tells me in interview this is now the Democrats' fault, and that he anticipates that when Obama "explodes" they will be ready to deal

NEVERMIND BACK TO CACKLING
posted by schadenfrau at 12:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

Trump needs to be slammed for this failure. It undermines his central argument for his presidency:

"Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it."

Not to mention all those grandiose promises he made, not just during the campaign, but at his rally in Louisville earlier this week.
posted by Gelatin at 12:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

One side of HerrenvolkCare, single-payer, coming up!
posted by corb at 12:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

A healthcare system that covers similar numbers of people without raising costs, and isn't either single payer or a refined version of ObamaCare/RomneyCare is literally impossible.

Which makes me wonder: with all the fussing over the bill, how come no one is discussing the underlying problem for all of this, that is WHY THE HELL IS HEALTHCARE SO EXPENSIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE? If we could focus on that, we wouldn't need all this futzing around...
posted by Melismata at 12:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

WTF is Eddie Munster going to say at 4pm?
posted by yoga at 12:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I really hope Maggie Haberman asked POTUS if it was okay if she live tweeted her call with him (after Spicey told her not to live tweet his press briefing earlier).

/just kidding, I don't care at all whether she asked, mostly fascinated by how they will pin this on Dems
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

so how's this shit playing on Fox?
posted by the phlegmatic king at 12:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

So which MeFite wants to step forward with an 11-dimensional chess explanation of how Trump has just headfaked us to our doom?
posted by howfar at 12:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

4 PM live stream
posted by TWinbrook8 at 12:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Paul Ryan press conference streaming here, expected imminently
posted by zachlipton at 12:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

WHY THE HELL IS HEALTHCARE SO EXPENSIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Because for an already complex and expensive service that literally every human needs and cannot make meaningful choices surrounding, the free market is extremely inefficient at controlling costs.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [77 favorites]

Washington Post, New York Times, bets he's mixed up his good and bad media lists, and Buzzfeed gets a call next?
posted by MattWPBS at 12:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

i want to watch but this monitor is too expensive to risk putting my fist through
posted by murphy slaw at 12:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm home sick today due to a bad asthma episode, and all this cackling in glee really IS making me tired of winning.
posted by meese at 12:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

WTF is Eddie Munster going to say at 4pm?

"I have to return some videotapes."
posted by knuckle tattoos at 12:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Bannon's entire political philosophy appears to be cribbed from the pages of 300.

Or The Turner Diaries.
posted by JohnFromGR at 1:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

so how's this shit playing on Fox?

Lead homepage headline:

BREAKING NEWS: Trump has GOP ObamaCare replacement bill pulled amid faltering support
posted by chris24 at 1:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Hey Republicans, don't worry, that burn is covered under the Affordable Care Act
-- Senator Bob Menendez (D) NJ
posted by murphy slaw at 1:01 PM on March 24, 2017 [200 favorites]

11th dimensional chess theory of the moment: Considering trump just went back on his promise to have no contat with the Trump Org (he now says he will see financial statements) maybe he never wanted healthcare at all and this was a very elaborate cover.

/s
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:01 PM on March 24, 2017

he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

When I shout single you shout payer!
posted by cmfletcher at 1:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

wait until the debt ceiling HAS to be increased - they won't get the votes together for THAT either

and then the real shocker will come - that next to congress, trump is actually a halfway sane person capable of some kind of half-assed leadership - or at least capable of agreeing what to have for breakfast at the prayer meeting

i know, i'm saying this all wrong and it's sounding like a compliment of trump, but congress is in the process of committing the nuclear option in its diaper - it's going to be an awful mess and it's going to put trump in the position of having to SAVE the country

god help us

this is going to get really ugly
posted by pyramid termite at 1:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

On the Facebook live fed where we are waiting for Paul Ryan to give a statement about repeal / replace there's a sea of HaHa faces which is awesome. I bet when he comes out they'll all turn to little angry faces. I'm going to love that. It's the little joys these days.
posted by dog food sugar at 1:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

mostly fascinated by how they will pin this on Dems

Hamfistedly, mendaciously, and with so much straight-faced hypocrisy that it will take your breath away.
posted by diogenes at 1:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Ok, so now we need to double down on our message, which has two parts:

1. The Republicans control the government and can do whatever they want. They had eight years to come up with a healthcare plan that works. The reason that they didn't pass anything is that they couldn't come up with anything that was acceptable to their own party. Whatever happens now is their fault. They own it. No one else.

2. The way to fix Obamacare is single payer.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [76 favorites]

They're going to sabotage the heck out of Obamacare now out of spite aren't they?
posted by zachlipton at 1:03 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

So, this is how a bill becomes a NAAAH.

(tip your waiters)
posted by Sophie1 at 1:03 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Bring your single payer A games, people!
if this were a back-to-the-drawing-board, i'd begin by asking, 'what will it take to get everyone the exact. same. care. as US Senators?' i'm not a policy-expert, but i know where they could get $54B.
posted by j_curiouser at 1:03 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

They're going to sabotage the heck out of Obamacare now out of spite aren't they?

Yes. And I repeat: whatever happens now is their fault. If Obamacare fails, it's their fault.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

when Obama "explodes"

An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama is an overinflated bike tire
posted by beerperson at 1:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

they're going to shut the government down - not through spite, through sheer incompetence
posted by pyramid termite at 1:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump hangs up with the Post and chats to the [Failing New York] Times. What the hell is he doing?

Having a meltdown and trying to play it off like everything's cool.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

OMG that @maggieNYT tweet is the most hysterical shit I have seen in forever. THe comments/replies & gifs are fucking HILARIOUS

thanks zachlipton and HAPPY BIRTHDAY roomthreeseventeen
posted by yoga at 1:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Well happy fucking birthday to me!
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

Work with him? He can't even close a deal with his own party in the fucking majority. The correct answer to "I, Donald Trump, notable failure, would like to work with you on healthcare" is to laugh and hang up the phone. Put single-payer on his desk without his help, dare him to veto it out of spite and find out if his approval rate can drop below 30%.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

Which is to say: call your Democratic congresscritters and tell them to tell Trump to get fucked.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Disaster scenario: he turns around and genuinely tries to pass something good with Dems and moderates, sowing chaos and changing the political calculus for a given bill back to narrow issues, and then teams up with the Republicans for the racist and fascist shit. Because most people actually like and want healthcare, but a bunch of them just hate black people, women, and Democrats more.

But that would require competence. Still, I want to see how the Dems respond.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Damn NO VOTE I wanted to see all the yas nays on the roster!!
posted by robbyrobs at 1:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Do we get another tantrum trip to Mar-a-Lago later like we did after Sessions recused himself?
posted by jason_steakums at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama is an overinflated bike tire

Show us the long-form inner tube!
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Ok, we're on a quite a roll with birthdays. Who's up next? If we can have a MeFi lucky birthday everyday for the next four years, maybe we can make this.
posted by chris24 at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Despite what you hear in the press, healthcare is coming along great. We are talking to many groups and it will end in a beautiful picture!

- Donald Trump on March 9th
posted by diogenes at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

It really is dead, isn't it? It's not like one of those gotcha horror movies?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

WHY THE HELL IS HEALTHCARE SO EXPENSIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

In part, because of end-of-life care being really expensive and not, according to many medical providers, even /useful/. But you just can't politically say it - when the Dems tried the GOP accused them of wanting death panels, and when the reverse happened there was no shortage of Dems talking about "why do you want granny to die".

I'm no statistician, but it seems like you could add significant quantities of people to the rolls if there was more of a hard cutoff for extraordinary measures that don't preserve quality of life.
posted by corb at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

I feel something I haven't felt for such a long time.

It's hard to describe.

It's not...dread, or sadness, or overwhelming crushing anger.

Could this be....

OPTIMISM?
posted by cooker girl at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

Yes. And I repeat: whatever happens now is their fault. If Obamacare fails, it's their fault.

Except it won't necessarily appear that way. They can still sabotage it so costs go up and insurers drop out, and they'll just blame Obama.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I know there's a lot of bad shit yet to come, but this was a good day.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

WTF is Eddie Munster going to say at 4pm?

"I have to go now, my planet needs me."
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 1:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

NYT story updated:

Mr. Trump, in a telephone interview moments after the bill was pulled, blamed Democrats and predicted that they would seek a deal within a year after, he asserted, “Obamacare explodes” because of higher premiums. The president said he did not fault Mr. Ryan and said that he was pleased to move past his first legislative fight. He maintained that he was merely going along with the House bill.

NBC News says that Trump is going to speak from the Oval Office, so that will be interesting. Paul Ryan on the way to the podium now.
posted by zachlipton at 1:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

the only legal remedy for any felony commited by the President is impeachment

Are you sure? I thought presidential immunity only applied to official acts in office. If that's right, it seems like a glaring omission in our constitutional design. In no other cases I know of do we grant retroactive immunity to crimes committed when somebody was a non-office holder. If you're an actual lawyer with specialty in the subject, you know better than me, but I can't remember any other cases where holding office or anything else shields you retroactively from the law.

Either way, it seems like a question there ought to be some clear answer to that doesn't create a huge contradiction in the application of law, if the rule of law is still even a thing now.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Except it won't necessarily appear that way. They can still sabotage it so costs go up and insurers drop out, and they'll just blame Obama.

They'll certainly try. And we repeat: "you control the government and can do whatever you want. You ran on the promise that you would fix it. Why didn't you fix it?"
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

... it will end in a beautiful picture!

It did.
posted by _Mona_ at 1:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

By "move past" do you mean "lose"?
posted by corb at 1:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

You just know Boehner's getting his day drink on and laughing his ass off.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [67 favorites]

wait until the debt ceiling HAS to be increased - they won't get the votes together for THAT either

Well, not from the entire Republican caucus. Ryan could do what Boehner did and do an end-run around the extreme loonies in the so-called "Freedom Caucus" and pass a debt ceiling increase with the Democrats. It might also cost him the Speakership, except that no one else seems to really want the job.
posted by Gelatin at 1:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

One side of HerrenvolkCare, single-payer, coming up!

Complete with mandated proof of citizenship and invasive questioning of patients who look "suspicious."
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

"Metafilter: in the process of committing the nuclear option in its diaper."
posted by Coventry at 1:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

The president said he did not fault Mr. Ryan and said that he was pleased to move past his first legislative fight. He maintained that he was merely going along with the House bill.

Trump is on record lobbying Congress and demanding a vote. I hope not even the most "he said, she said" addicted "balanced" media hack buys that line.

Memo to self: Take deep breaths before turning NPR on for the drive home...
posted by Gelatin at 1:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

"We came really close today." - Paul Ryan, marathon liar.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

he’ll see if the Dems want to work with him on healthcare.

Dems: Pull the Gorsuch nomination, nominate Merrick Garland for SCOTUS, and then we'll talk about healthcare. [fake, but a guy can dream]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [41 favorites]

Ryan "we came really close" than he flicks his nose CLASSIC LIAR
posted by robbyrobs at 1:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

"The process of converting from an opposition party to a governing party involves some growing pains, and boy did we feel them today" - Ryan's opening salvo
posted by murphy slaw at 1:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Big things are hard.
posted by vbfg at 1:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

So I guess this isn't where we talk about how Ryan is wearing a neon-green tie that clashes horribly with his eyes. Or ask who the guy in the front row with the cowboy hat is.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

"We want every American to feel more confident about their lot in life" --Ryan

Note that he doesn't say they want to improve people's lives, just make them feel better about their shitty lives.

Ryan's now talking up how hard the President worked to pass the bill. He's not going down alone.
posted by zachlipton at 1:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Trump and Ryan are definitely on the same page with the insistence that Obamacare is going to explode soon. The sad thing is that they probably have many ways of making that outcome more likely without people catching on.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:16 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

> "We came really close today." - Paul Ryan, marathon liar.

What next, is he going to blame those meddling kids?
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:16 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

can we retroactively apply some of this GOP failure to the 2016 elections
posted by beerperson at 1:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

You guys I just keep laughing

Also I ran out of favorites again but I love you all
posted by schadenfrau at 1:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

You just know Boehner's getting his day drink on and laughing his ass off.

Who cares what John Boehner is doing right now?

Boehner is an affable guy, and less ideologically stringent than Ryan, which lends him afterglow in this particularly cruel and chaotic moment. George W. Bush benefits from this kind of revisionism, too. But neither man deserves it.

Boehner blew just about every call of his speakership, whether he was trying to lever President Obama into signing conservative bills, or limit losses when Democrats were operating from strength. His biggest accomplishments were budget sequestration, which everyone hates, and a modest agreement he struck at the end of his career with Nancy Pelosi to fix Medicare’s physician reimbursement formula. Not only did he leave no legacy, but he left the political system in far shabbier shape than he found it.

It isn’t a huge leap to think there would be no President Trump had Boehner simply put the Senate’s comprehensive immigration reform bill on the House floor for a vote in 2013. He was widely applauded inside the beltway for mocking his own members, behind closed doors as a bunch of cowards, too scared to pass the bill they promised to pass only to chickenshit out of forcing the issue himself.

posted by peeedro at 1:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

next thing you know we'll have a Lich King, and those are next to impossible to get rid of.

Archlich Xonolotep the Unseeing's time has come.
posted by homunculus at 1:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

when the Dems tried the GOP accused them of wanting death panels, and when the reverse happened there was no shortage of Dems talking about "why do you want granny to die"

Comparing 100% voluntary personal advice to the widespread reduction or elimination of care entirely is either a wildly misinformed take on reality, or a pretty fucked up way to try and play the increasingly horrible "both sides do it!" game.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

I didn't realize that the whole "Party of No" stuff applied to their own legislation as well.

That's dedication.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [58 favorites]

Note that he doesn't say they want to improve people's lives, just make them feel better about their shitty lives.

no he just wants them to feel confident that their shitty lot in life is appropriate
posted by murphy slaw at 1:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I haven't felt this good in months. Maybe this can work. Maybe we can take the House.
posted by kerf at 1:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Everybody spare a moment to shed a tear for the young Paul Ryan, dreaming big dreams at his kegger, not knowing it would all turn to ash one day
posted by the phlegmatic king at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [35 favorites]

We were doing the Democrats a favor, by passing this law before Obamacare exploded.
-Ryan
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

An exploded Obamacare will still be a better policy than the abomination they proposed, if only because it will still have the money that these monsters would have provided to the 0.1% as tax cuts. I'll take an "exploded Obamacare", thank you very much.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Stay frosty, there's a decent chance roving packs of freedom caucus members will try to take over a hospital and turn it into a Blade 2-esque bacchanal of suffering to slake their denied thirst.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Jeez I step out for an hour and they pull the bill.

How did such fuckups get into places of power? The mind reels.
posted by dis_integration at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

"Yeah, we're going to be living with Obamacare" -- Paul Ryan

Can someone reality check me, that I heard that in this dimension just now? Because. OK. People living is a good goal.
posted by mikelieman at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [29 favorites]

More from Haberman:

TRUMP told me he is happy having this in the rearview mirror. "It's enough already," he said of the negotiations.
POTUS did not sound mad, showed uncharacteristic discipline as he talked about who had let him down (he said Democrats).

It sounds like he got tired of working, and clearly he planned out these calls to the Post and Times (actually, Haberman was in the building today) in advance, because he had talking points and wasn't angry.

Ryan is saying that "Obamacare is going to get even worse" and that they were doing the Democrats a favor of getting rid of it before it gets really bad. They're going to completely destroy this thing out of spite now.
posted by zachlipton at 1:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Two notable bills out right now from the Democrats.

First, Medicare for All, which is relevant for obvious reasons.

Second, MAR-A-LAGO, which is relevant for hilarious reasons.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:20 PM on March 24, 2017 [77 favorites]

"Obamacare is going to get even worse"

- Speaker Ryan

Which means you're going to do your absolute best to make sure it tanks. Nice.
posted by Tevin at 1:20 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

In all seriousness, if you're a conservative, what reason do you have to vote Republican now?

I mean it can't be for conservative policy, given that they've proven they can't even get their shit together to vote for their primary campaign issue for the past seven years.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:20 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump and Ryan are definitely on the same page with the insistence that Obamacare is going to explode soon.

Well, neutering the mandate was lighting the fuse.
posted by Gaz Errant at 1:20 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Brave Sir Donald ran away (No!)
Bravely ran away away (I didn't!)
When danger reared its ugly head
He bravely turned his tail and fled (No!)
Yes, brave Sir Donald turned about (I didn't!)
And gallantly he chickened out

Bravely taking to his feet (I never did!)
He beat a very brave retreat (All lies!)
Bravest of the brave, Sir Donald! (I never!)
posted by kirkaracha at 1:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

Conan O'Brien, ladies and gentlemen.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [47 favorites]

TRUMP told me he is happy having this in the rearview mirror.

Ok, this is really the best evidence that they guy hasn't actually sat in the driver's seat for decades.

Because this failure ain't in the rearview mirror. Or maybe it's like that thing where you keep passing the same kid on the bike in a New England town over and over?
posted by mikelieman at 1:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Ryan should now pull a John Galt and go drop off the grid, along with the entire Republican Freedom Caucus.

That'd show us!
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

POTUS did not sound mad, showed uncharacteristic discipline as he talked about who had let him down (he said Democrats).

Wait til the Saturday morning tweets.
posted by chris24 at 1:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

The thing is, if the Republicans are afraid of their constituents about this bill, which a lot of them are (I bet plenty of them are hugely relieved not to have to vote on it, even though they'd never say so) they are going to be even more afraid of them about just, I dunno, fucking up the debt ceiling thing.

I have some hopes that this is a hard limit for them - even their constituents won't actually concur in policies this blatently fraudulent. It's like the Milo Yiannopolous thing (and doesn't it seem like that was years ago?) - sure, it's terrible and disappointing that only the vilest, most horrible thing about a vile horrible thing actually disgusts people enough to get them to act, but at least the vilest and most horrible thing disgusts them enough to act.

Remember on January 20 when it wasn't clear to many of us whether, like, Trump would simply declare martial law? Remember when it wasn't clear that he would abide by the ruling against his travel ban? The further things go like this, with a terrible government that is still at least somewhat responsive to the popular will, the less likely we are to end up in a martial-music-on-the-radio-and-all-the-TV-stations-shut-down situation.

In a way, we're "normalizing" Trump, in the sense that Americans are still expecting their government to function like a normal government, with at least some deference to the will of the governed. This is a very, very good thing.

Keep thinking about 2020 - think with hope of the phrase "one term president".
posted by Frowner at 1:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [69 favorites]

Ryan ends with his dumbass "risk pools" bullshit. Good job.
posted by dhens at 1:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Heh.

Ahahaha.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

YEARS and YEARS of these imbeciles whining about how if they had a chance to healthcare, they would totally healthcare the best healthcare, much better than that stinky old Obamacare, which they would totally repeal the second they can and replace it with their totally awesome healthcare bill, which no you can't see it but it's totally a real bill that exists, you wouldn't know this bill, she goes to a different school.

HAHAHAHAHAHA
posted by kyrademon at 1:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [182 favorites]

I am imagining Barak and Michelle doing a fist bump, hip bump, high five dance.
posted by futz at 1:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [37 favorites]

A nice silver lining: there won't be a vote on the AHCA, but there was already a vote for the rule to allow them to pass it, and 230 Republicans voted for it. That's 230 Republicans that Dems can credibly campaign against on the basis that they voted to throw 24 million off their health insurance. For campaign purposes, the rules vote is just about as good as the actual vote.
posted by zachlipton at 1:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [93 favorites]

The good thing about this is that this was the "easy" thing. A direct attack on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security (as opposed to the stealth hit on Medicaid in ACHA) was always going to be harder and face tougher opposition. And they couldn't even do the easy one.
posted by chris24 at 1:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA FINALLY SOME KIND OF VICTORYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

> Keep thinking about 2020

Good words Frowner, but let's not forget 2018.

2018 is extremely important, too.
posted by Tevin at 1:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

CNN is reporting that the in the Repub closed meeting it was decided that Obamacare stands. It is a done deal and they are moving on.No bluff, they are moving on. No word on their music choice.
posted by futz at 1:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Stocks rebound on news of GOP bill's death.
posted by rewil at 1:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [51 favorites]

In a way, we're "normalizing" Trump, in the sense that Americans are still expecting their government to function like a normal government, with at least some deference to the will of the governed. This is a very, very good thing.

Bad normalizing: Pretending everything Trump does is within the regular rules for American politics so there's no cause to panic.

Good normalizing: MAKING Trump act within the regular rules for American politics.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

Here is a gif of the bill waving goodbye for all of your celebratory purposes.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

POTUS did not sound mad, showed uncharacteristic discipline as he talked about who had let him down (he said Democrats).

We're in DST, sundown is an hour later now.
posted by Freon at 1:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Thing is, Democrats always had the harder job, because they were trying to BUILD something, instead of just tearing shit down. Building coalitions and passing big legislation is hard. Throwing rocks and talking shit is easy.

This was their chance to show they're more than rock throwers, and they produced a piece of legislation that EVERYONE hated, and then FAILED TO PASS IT.

Republicans have demonstrated that this is all they can do.

Devastating.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [59 favorites]

Robert Costa‏Verified account @costareports 12m12 minutes ago

“I would say within anywhere from 5 to 12 votes,” Trump told me, of how close the GOP came to passage
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:30 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

1. That time a novice chief executive made a foolhardy promise, his erstwhile allies rushed to get it done—and it all fell apart in the end.
2. Of course, I’m talking about ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT’s classic episode, “The One Where They Build a House.”
[...]
posted by tonycpsu at 1:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]

We're in DST, sundown is an hour later now.

I believe the Kushners are skiing somewhere, though.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

So, is Trump going to throw us in the briar patch?
posted by ocschwar at 1:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's hard to imagine the size of Barack Obama's grin right about now.
posted by gwint at 1:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

I hadn't even thought of the sabbath angle, roomthreeseventeen, I was referencing his tendency to show signs of Alzheimer's.
posted by Freon at 1:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

I am imagining Barak and Michelle doing a fist bump, hip bump, high five dance.

I wanted to ask a pro sommelier buddy of mine on FB, "What champagne is best with Republican Tears?", but you know, although I'm an asshole, I'm not that big an asshole.
posted by mikelieman at 1:34 PM on March 24, 2017

Donnie was humiliated in front of the world and had to hold it together long enough to seem chipper and optimistic to the press - I'm sure Christie is being prepped as we speak, and orders have been placed for meatloaf to be served "scalding".
posted by jason_steakums at 1:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

CNN's Dylan Byers, talking about Trump's calls to WaPo and NYT after crying "fake news" so often: Colleague notes this is reminiscent of the way Trump used to call New York tabloids when he was getting divorced...
posted by rewil at 1:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

> "What champagne is best with Republican Tears?"

The sweat of the working class, of course.
posted by Tevin at 1:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Thing is, Democrats always had the harder job, because they were trying to BUILD something, instead of just tearing shit down.

This really the central crux of the R/D divide because it's what always happens. I think it's also a big part of anti-choice hot air from them, too, because it's something they can hold up and claim a moral highground about that does not require them to do anything but tear shit down. Banning abortion doesn't cost money, it doesn't raise taxes, it's the easiest thing in the world to crow about and make a big stink about.

Meanwhile Dems' big issues like health care and the social safety net cost money, they're huge, systemtic problems that require huge systemic solutions with a lot of complex moving parts and that shit is easy to get wrong.

The Rs get the reputation as being "responsible" and "competent" because they don't actually want to fucking do anything except destroy, and that shit is so easy, my four-year-old is practically a PhD in it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [75 favorites]

I believe the Kushners are skiing somewhere, though.

When I read "sundowning", I thought more:

Sundowning is a symptom of Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia. It's also known as “late-day confusion.” If someone you care for has dementia, their confusion and agitation may get worse in the late afternoon and evening. In comparison, their symptoms may be less pronounced earlier in the day.

than Shabbos.
posted by mikelieman at 1:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Pretty much none of my kegger dreams came true either.
posted by srboisvert at 1:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

I know the news is coming fast, but meanwhile, Flynn got thrown under another bus: Ex-CIA Director: Mike Flynn and Turkish Officials Discussed Removal of Erdogan Foe From U.S.: "James Woolsey says he attended a September meeting where other participants, including then-Trump adviser Mike Flynn, talked of moving Fethullah Gulen back to Turkey without going through U.S. extradition process"

This is discussing something that certainly sounds damn illegal while acting as a paid foreign agent for Turkey, soon before being named National Security Advisor.
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [51 favorites]

So I guess this isn't where we talk about how Ryan is wearing a neon-green tie...

Seriously? That lesson didn't even last a week?
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Annnnnnd this is how fast the press allows Trump to inject his bullshit into the storyline

This is awful journalism.
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.
posted by sotonohito at 11:15 AM on March 24 [20 favorites +] [!]

So, chocolate or vanilla? I'm partial to spice cake, myself.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:40 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

I say carrot, because any cake associated with this nonsense should be as orange as possible.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Warren Zevon's dad was a Russian mobster.

And he was famously OCD. And hung out with lots of alcoholics.

We should have been referencing Zevon the whole time instead of Hamilton, I guess, is what I'm saying.
posted by petebest at 1:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

As far as the single payer push goes, in the face of the AHCA failing this seems like a really ideal time to capitalize on the outrage over how many people would lose their insurance under the AHCA and drive home the fact that the differential between universal health care and the ACA as-is is even larger, like Matt Bruenig noted. If the one is an outrage, so is the other, and the time to start adjusting the Overton window on this (a strategy that Democrats repeatedly discount for some reason, as though letting it ~~slowly~~ shift right in favor of "pragmatism" is somehow paying dividends that will be redeemable in some imaginary future) is while the anger is fresh in everyone's blood.
posted by invitapriore at 1:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

I know the news is coming fast, but meanwhile, Flynn got thrown under another bus: Ex-CIA Director: Mike Flynn and Turkish Officials Discussed Removal of Erdogan Foe From U.S.: "James Woolsey says he attended a September meeting where other participants, including then-Trump adviser Mike Flynn, talked of moving Fethullah Gulen back to Turkey without going through U.S. extradition process"

That bus better be moving. This is murder, much as Gullen might deserve it.

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.

Save me a slice.
posted by ocschwar at 1:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Re: earlier comments about "healthcare is so expensive because we keep Granny alive too long," that's not actually it.

What is it*, or part of it, is fee-for-service medical care. Your doctor/hospital makes more if they do more stuff to you. Whether you need it or not. Same with meds; doctors are rewarded for pushing prescriptions on you by pharma companies.

One of the reasons many doctors (who should know better) opposed socialized medicine was because they might end up on a salary system instead, and make less money. Though given the grind of for-profit medicine (rushing as many patients through as possible)/constant wrangling with insurance companies, maybe some of them have changed their minds on this.

Granny, in other words, is not the problem here. Not to mention that in many places Granny does not have the option to ask for a peaceful end, or even an end to treatment.

*Yes this is a very complicated topic and this isn't the only factor.
posted by emjaybee at 1:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

Breaking: Trump has asked that the truck come back. [fake. probably real.]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

How a Republican Congressman Accidentally Disclosed a Secret Intelligence Debate (New Yorker, March 24, 2017)

It started when Nunes asked, “Do Russians historically prefer Republicans to win over Democrats?” Nunes ticked through some recent elections and inquired whether the Russians supported John McCain over Obama, in 2008, or Mitt Romney over Obama, in 2012. Comey said that he didn’t know the answer.

“I’m just asking a general question,” Nunes said. “Wouldn’t it be a little preposterous to say that, historically, going back to Ronald Reagan and all that we know about maybe who the Russians would prefer, that somehow the Russians prefer Republicans over Democrats?”

Watching the hearing, this seemed like a curious line of questioning. Because members of the House Intelligence Committee often know a great deal more than they can say publicly, they sometimes use their questioning to hint at what they have learned in classified settings. Nunes’s questions seemed to suggest some broader debate, as Comey confirmed when he shut down the exchange.

“I’m not going to discuss in an unclassified forum,” he said. “In the classified segment of the reporting version that we did, there is some analysis that discusses this because, remember, this did come up in our assessment on the Russian piece.”

Nunes thanked him and turned to Representative Peter King, of New York. King was less circumspect than Nunes had been. “I would just say on that because, again, we’re not going into the classified sections, that indicating that historically Russians have supported Republicans, and I know that language is there, to me puts somewhat of a cloud over the entire report,” King said.

I didn’t notice it at the time, though I was in the room, and the C-SPAN video of the hearing doesn’t capture it, but Democrats told me that there was, at this point, a minor commotion on the dais. King had just revealed that the classified version of the report had concluded “that historically Russians have supported Republicans.”

Two Democrats, confirming what King said, told me that there was a significant fight over this judgment during a recent classified briefing. “I was really taken aback that it came up in the hearing,” one Democratic congressman on the committee told me. “I might just observe to you, if there was such a conclusion, you can bet that the Republicans would have pushed back very, very hard about such a conclusion. And I don’t want to say more than that.”

Emphasis mine.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [67 favorites]

but guys now we'll never find out about phase 2 and the other prongs
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

I say carrot, because any cake associated with this nonsense should be as orange as possible.

Please don't ruin carrot cake for me.
posted by chris24 at 1:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Make no mistake, the AHCA will pass. If it doesn't I'll gladly print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here.
posted by sotonohito at 11:15 AM on March 24 [20 favorites +] [!]

Chocolate cake shows icing better.
posted by corb at 1:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm at the grocery store right now buying a cake mix and some frosting to write with. Pictures to follow soon.

Also, apparently my inability to be right in any political prediction continues unbroken. Hmmmm.....

I confidently predict that Trump will not resign! Mark my words he will still be president in six months!

Let's see if I can keep up my streak of total wrongness!

Also : holy Fuck I love good news for a change! Yay us!

I always knew Republicans couldn't govern but they've taken utter incompetence to a whole new level....
posted by sotonohito at 1:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [190 favorites]

It's hard to imagine the size of Barack Obama's grin right about now.

Well, this was just posted on Instagram.
posted by gwint at 1:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [53 favorites]

Nancy Pelosi now giggling after being told that Trump just stated that he wanted to work with Democrats on health care reform [real]
posted by Theiform at 1:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [75 favorites]

Tangerine pound cake with a mango glaze.
posted by spinifex23 at 1:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

"We had not Democratic support" Why do you care?? You own the House and the Senate!! Just keep babbling Mr Trump
posted by robbyrobs at 1:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

"I would just say on that because, again, we’re not going into the classified sections, that indicating that historically Russians have supported Republicans, and I know that language is there, to me puts somewhat of a cloud over the entire report,” King said.

These people do know that the USSR is not Russia and that Russia is now a right-wing authoritarian regime, right?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

Trump from the Oval Office: "We were very close, it was a very, very tight margin. We had no Democrat support. No votes from the Democrats. They weren't going to give us a single vote so it's a very difficult thing to do." Obamacare is exploding and the best thing we can do politically is to let Obamacare explode. A lot of people didn't realize how good our bill was because they only looked at phase 1, it was great with phases 2 and 3. We were very, very close. "I think what will happen is Obamacare will explode, it will have a very bad year." What would be really good with no democrat support is when it explodes, if the democrats got together with us and got a real healthcare bill. I'd be totally open to it. "I think the losers are Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer because now they own Obamacare. This is not Republican healthcare." Paul Ryan worked "very very hard," thank the Republican Party, Price, Pence. "We'll end up with a truly great healthcare plan in the future after this mess known as Obamacare explodes." "It certainly was an interesting period of time. We all learned a lot. We learned a lot about loyalty, we learned a lot about the vote getting process. We learned a lot about some very arcane rules, certainly in the Senate and the House."

In response to a question, he says they're going for tax reform now. Then he complains again that they had no support from Democrats. He says yes he's confident in Ryan, "I like Speaker Ryan, he worked very very hard." "It seems like both sides [GOP factions] like Trump and that's good."
posted by zachlipton at 1:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

This White House statement is bananas

Link?
posted by MattWPBS at 1:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

soren_lorensen: Because for an already complex and expensive service that literally every human needs and cannot make meaningful choices surrounding, the free market is extremely inefficient at controlling costs.

Elaboration: the free market doesn't have much incentive to make necessary goods and services more affordable, especially when there's significant government funding to make sure people have access to this necessary good. Doubly so when those goods and services are not easily duplicated or replaced by other sources or means. It's not necessarily a monopoly, but in a number of cases and places it's pretty close.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

It will be nice to have a celebratory beer for a change. I'ma give the drown-out-the-assholery beers a break for a minute.
posted by yoga at 1:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

I mean, you can't blame him. As Donny has said, nobody knew how complicated healthcare could be.
posted by tocts at 1:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

christ, trump's comments right now are so fucking cruel re: letting the ACA "explode"
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Warren Zevon's dad was a Russian mobster.

A Jewish immigrant to America, originally named Zivotovsky. (Nicknamed 'Stumpy.') And Warren's mother was a Mormon – that sounds like an interesting family to grow up in.
posted by LeLiLo at 1:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm having vegetarian barbecue (there is a place near me that hot smokes big blocks of tofu!) and mead tonight. It's gonna be terrific, just great, really the best, believe me, bigly.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

christ, trump's comments right now are so fucking cruel re: letting the ACA "explode"

The ads just write themselves for 2018 and 2020.
posted by chris24 at 1:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

I'm at the grocery store right now buying a cake mix and some frosting to write with.

A retrospective of why your argument led to the wrong prediction would be more interesting, but I may be biased because I'm gluten intolerant.
posted by Coventry at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Watching Trump ramble on and on now. Thinking his words will appear in a Democratic campaign ad next year. "No Democratic support for this bill at all." That's basically an endorsement of the Democrats at this point.
posted by honestcoyote at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

The timing for this victory is terrific.

From a grassroots organizing level, I'm going to start pushing for an independent investigation for the Russia case. ACA isn't safe forever, but now it's time to focus on the giant bear in the room.
posted by Tevin at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [33 favorites]

Well, this was just posted on Instagram.

Pete Souza's troll game is commendable.
posted by chaoticgood at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [43 favorites]

Look, there's interesting and then there's cake.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

A Jewish immigrant to America, originally named Zivotovsky. (Nicknamed 'Stumpy.') And Warren's mother was a Mormon – that sounds like an interesting family to grow up in.

"Such nice people, so friendly, always with the brisket!"
posted by leotrotsky at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

He keeps saying how close they were, now says 10-15 votes down, maybe even closer, and keeps blaming the fact that there were no votes from Democrats. I think he's trying to convince himself he's not a loser if it was close. [He's not "the closer," he's the "close-er"]

He says that Obamacare is "imploding and soon will explode" and probably can't be saved.

Doesn't feel betrayed by the Freedom Caucus. He says no, but he's disappointed and surprised. Now he says there are things in this bill he "didn't particularly like" and we'll have a better bill.

"If we had bipartisian I really think we could have a healthcare bill that would be the ultimate." [real]

"I never said repeal and replace Obamacare within 64 days. I have a long time" [fact check: he actually talked about calling a special session to repeal it before he even took office]
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [29 favorites]

I just called my rep's office (Karen Bass) to thank her for cosponsoring the Medicare for All bill, and shared a little chuckle with the staffer when I said, "Given the recent total failure of the Republicans' healthcare bill...." Felt good, recommend you all do it.
posted by yasaman at 1:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

David Gergen just called Trump's response "delusional, in some ways."
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

"We all learned a lot. We learned a lot about loyalty, we learned a lot about the vote getting process. We learned a lot about some very arcane rules, certainly in the Senate and the House."

I just can't get over this "we learned a lot" nonsense that Trump keeps doing. Reminds me of the joke about the Lone Ranger and Tonto.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

He says that Obamacare is "imploding and soon will explode" and probably can't be saved.

Well, as long as the implosion and explosion are in perfect balance then we have nothing to worry about
posted by Existential Dread at 1:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [39 favorites]

For a totally incoherent rant about blaming Democrats and something about "the ultimate," that was actually really lucid for him.

@bobjherman: Health insurers still lack clarity about 2018 w/ AHCA failure. One source says they are "long-tailed cats in a room full of rocking chairs."

Insurers have to turn in their 2018 exchange offerings really soon. The GOP is suing over the cost-sharing subsides and fucked up the risk corridor payments. Nobody can trust the White House or Congress not to screw it up even more. I'm really not seeing how this doesn't end with insurers pulling out of the exchanges and/or huge premiums increases to make up for the uncertainty of what the Republicans are going to do to sabotage the system.
posted by zachlipton at 1:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

>WHY THE HELL IS HEALTHCARE SO EXPENSIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

> because of end-of-life care being really expensive ...

Bullshit. Americans spend roughly twice as much per capita as citizens of every other developed country in the world, with no better outcome. Now Republicans would say we just spend too much money on old people ready to die. This myth is false or at least highly misleading. It is based on studies that only look at Medicare spending, which of course is biased to old people near death.

But more comprehensive studies looking at the entire population show that 89% of high-cost spending goes to people not near death but people with lifelong chronic conditions. Only 11% of high-cost care goes to people in the last year of life. And most important -- this is no different than any other country. Most spending is on sick people, which should be no surprise, but not necessarily end of life. So much for the myth that we are wasting money on old people ready to die.

So what does explain the high cost of healthcare in the U.S? It's not that we are consuming too much healthcare. That's what Republicans say. Amercans consume no more healthcare than other countries. What is different is how much Americans pay for healthcare. They pay roughly twice as much for each medical procedure or consumable. Twice as much for a doctor's fee, twice as much for hospital care, twice as much for an MRI, twice as much for a drug prescription. The reason we pay twice as much is other countries use government cost controls on fees and expenses allowed to be charged by providers.

So that's it. Americans aren't over consuming. They are over-paying. The idea that Americans are getting too much healthcare is a Republican myth intended to justify cuts to the poor. They want sick people, not just the old, to just quickly die to save money.

>I'm no statistician ...

You can say that again but it doesn't stop you from pushing shameful, hardhearted Republican propaganda advocating pulling the plug on sick people for unjustified reasons.
posted by JackFlash at 1:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [187 favorites]

>> He says that Obamacare is "imploding and soon will explode" and probably can't be saved.
> Well, as long as the implosion and explosion are in perfect balance then we have nothing to worry about.

Hey, that's what I tell them in Stellar Structure. Gravity making a star implode, a giant thermonuclear reaction trying to blow it apart, hydrostatic equilibrium, and you've got stars that are stable for billions of years!
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

> "We want every American to feel more confident about their lot in life" --Ryan

Note that he doesn't say they want to improve people's lives, just make them feel better about their shitty lives.

So this is from pretty far upthread, but I'm still sort of struck by how the literal meaning of Ryan's words is even worse than that. He's not saying that he wants people to feel better about their shitty lives. The literal meaning of "we want every american to feel more confident about their lot in life" is "we want every american to know their place."

It's remarkable how he can put together a bunch of terms that sound like upbeat Americanisms to produce an authoritarian, quasi-feudalist message.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [73 favorites]

Some highlights from this absolutely batshit Trump speech:

Pelosi and Schumer are "losers" who "own it"
Democrats are the ones who need to come up with a plan to replace Obamacare
"I never said repeal and replace Obamacare" (he said it in many speeches including the pseudo-SOTU)
Also: "I never said repeal it and replace it within 64 days" (he used the phrase "on day one" many times)
Obamacare is simultaneously imploding and exploding
The implosion and/or explosion is something Real Americans should be cheering on

posted by zombieflanders at 2:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [48 favorites]

leotrotsky: I didn't realize that the whole "Party of No" stuff applied to their own legislation as well.

"I think a lot of the blame for this mess falls on the fact that this was rolled out too quickly but also that the Freedom Caucus, these 29 or so conservative members of the House - they basically only know how to exist as creatures of opposition." -- Jonah Goldberg of National Review on NPR this morning.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:03 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

"We all learned a lot. We learned a lot about loyalty, we learned a lot about the vote getting process. We learned a lot about some very arcane rules, certainly in the Senate and the House."

Who knew Politics could be so complicated?
posted by MattWPBS at 2:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

The implosion and/or explosion is something Real Americans should be cheering on

And there you have the core, central message of the GOP to its voting base: let your access to medical care be taken away so that a liberal can also suffer.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'm really not seeing how this doesn't end with insurers pulling out of the exchanges and/or huge premiums increases to make up for the uncertainty of what the Republicans are going to do to sabotage the system.

This. I mean, we're all celebrating but they've already taken steps to make the ACA stop working, even if just some crazed executive orders back on Jan. 20. They'll find ways to make it worse yet.
posted by dnash at 2:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

A lot of people didn't realize how good our bill was because they only looked at phase 1, it was great with phases 2 and 3. We were very, very close.

That's going to be part of the Donald Trump Story that he tells and retells along with the three million illegal votes and the record-breaking crowds at his inauguration where God stopped the rain so that he, Trump, could speak.

Phase 2 and phase 3 are going to take on mythical proportions having the magical properties of making healthcare more affordable and better in every way for all Americans but should he ever, for any reason, have to finally reveal what Phase 2 and Phase 3 are, he will be unable to explain them with any clarity and they will ultimately turn out to be *place holder* and *TBD at a later date*.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

We learned a lot about some very arcane rules

For instance, did you know that there must be more "yes" than "no" votes for the House bill to pass a bill? Very arcane, extremely hard to understand, but this was a positive learning experience with a real bright side. Also, while we're clearing the air, many people think there is an arcane rule called "yes boats are no votes." This turns out to be a popular misconception; you cannot magically convert boats to votes by setting them on fire.
posted by compartment at 2:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [59 favorites]

Awwww poor Josh Marshall is on vacation.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Squandering the attention-grabbing gravitas of an Oval Office statement on a poorly-lit rambling press scrum is so very Trumpian.
posted by Rhaomi at 2:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

NPR would like us to know that the house intelligence committee investigation into the Trump campaigns Russia ties is sliding into partisanship.Feh. Broderism lives.
posted by Gelatin at 2:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump says he’d be “totally open” to Democrats helping on another health-care bill “when they all get civilized”
posted by H. Roark at 2:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Hello, Bob: President Trump called me on my cellphone on Friday afternoon at 3:31 p.m. At first I thought it was a reader with a complaint since it was a blocked number.
posted by rewil at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

So a bunch of Republicans in the House have now taken an open, public, meaningful stand against Trump. Is there anything we can/should do to help this nascent internal rebellion along? I know they're rebelling from the right for the most part, but it seems to me that anything that breaks the Republican lockstep seems like it should be encouraged. Before today whoever defied him would have had to be the first, now that's no longer the case.
posted by contraption at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

So will the white house now reverse the 'sabotage obamacare' executive order?
posted by srboisvert at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2017

Robert Costa: President Trump called my cellphone to say that the health-care bill was dead. This is a quote: "“You’re right,” he said. “I’m a team player but I’ve also said the best thing politically is to let Obamacare explode.”" He's trying to spin he never liked the bill that much anyway.

And this is a very candid statement from Rep. Joe Barton, outright admitting that they were "playing Fantasy Football" all those times they voted to repeal Obamacare before and now they knew they were playing with live ammo. We all knew it, but nice to hear one of them say it.

Please enjoy this hot-take: The myth of Paul Ryan was shattered today. It contrasts Pelosi's incredibly effective ability to whip votes, using the White House, using outside groups, getting people to call up reps and say "Tom, you might not vote for the DREAM Act? I know we haven't talked in 32 years, but..," whatever it took, with Ryan's failure to get any outside interest groups on board, build a coalition, individually lobby key legislators over months, or basically do anything that would make him remotely effective at his job.
posted by zachlipton at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [70 favorites]

People are posting a lot of "laughing Hillary Clinton" gifs on Twitter and it makes me realize that there is no light-heartedness, camaraderie or JOY among our elected officials right now. Seeing her laughing in a collegial way with Barack Obama seems so foreign at the moment.
posted by mynameisluka at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

If you're looking for something from the current White House to be soothing, here's today's photo of the day (empty room, staring at a cold fireplace flanked by two empty seats, poorly framed as it includes part of a lampshade on the left and part of a bust on the right).
posted by filthy light thief at 2:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Phase 2 and phase 3 are going to take on mythical proportions having the magical properties of making healthcare more affordable and better in every way for all Americans but should he ever

He should try to heed this guy's advice:

@johnboehner @EricCantor "You can't con people…if you don't deliver the goods, people will eventually catch on." – The Art of the Deal
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 19, 2011

posted by peeedro at 2:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

And true to their previous pattern, NPR has for reaction a Republican Congress person on to complain about Obamacare.
posted by Gelatin at 2:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

"No Democratic support for this bill at all."

ATTENTION DEMOCRATS: ^This is our expectation going forward. Make us proud. Exceed Our Expectations!
posted by mikelieman at 2:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [83 favorites]

The literal meaning of "we want every american to feel more confident about their lot in life" is "we want every american to know their place."

O let us love our occupations,
Bless the squire and his relations,
Live upon our daily rations,
And always know our proper stations.
posted by emjaybee at 2:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump says he’d be “totally open” to Democrats helping on another health-care bill “when they all get civilized”

Should they all get eloquent first?
posted by srboisvert at 2:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

mynameisluka: People are posting a lot of "laughing Hillary Clinton" gifs on Twitter and it makes me realize that there is no light-heartedness, camaraderie or JOY among our elected officials right now.

What about Trump in a truck? Oh damn, for all his fun, he looks like an intense to angry toddler. I know these were cherrypicked to make Donnie look as goofy as possible (really, not a hard task here), but still - no smiles.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump's first 63 days:

One of the largest protests in American history.

An unprecedented surge of grass-roots activism and political organizing on the left.

Two Muslim bans blocked by the courts.

Trump's National Security Advisor resigned in disgrace.

An FBI investigation into possible collusion with a foreign adversary to undermine American democracy.

Multiple high-profile lies that most Americans recognize as such.

Record-low approval ratings.

And the GOP caught bluffing with an empty hand on the signature issue that they've been shrieking about for seven years.

That's just a sample, of course.

This administration is still very much a grave threat, and we should not count on institutions to save us. But perhaps the arc of history may yet bend toward "get the fuck out of here, you loofah-faced shitgibbon"?

When fascists finally came to America, thank God they were so ear-fuckingly incompetent. The next batch might not be, and I remain deeply anxious about the future of democracy in America, and around the world. But if incompetence saves us from the current fascists – I mean, shit, I'll take it.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [154 favorites]

If I could favorite this jackflash comment 100 times I would.

So what does explain the high cost of healthcare in the U.S? It's not that we are consuming too much healthcare. That's what Republicans say. Amercans consume no more healthcare than other countries. What is different is how much Americans pay for healthcare. They pay roughly twice as much for each medical procedure or consumable. Twice as much for a doctor's fee, twice as much for hospital care, twice as much for an MRI, twice as much for a drug prescription. The reason we pay twice as much is other countries use government cost controls on fees and expenses allowed to be charged by providers.
posted by yoga at 2:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

So a bunch of Republicans in the House have now taken an open, public, meaningful stand against Trump. Is there anything we can/should do to help this nascent internal rebellion along?

The bunch of Republicans in question is the Freedom Caucus. They killed this bill because it wasn't horrible enough. I wouldn't count on their support to block future horrible things.

There were not-batshit Republicans who were wavering, but I don't think any of them took a firm no stance. At any rate, the way to help them along is to keep doing what everyone did to kill the AHCA, which is to say call and send postcards and make clear that they're risking their careers every time they support a piece of Trump's (or Ryan's) agenda.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

If you're looking for something from the current White House to be soothing, here's today's photo of the day (empty room, staring at a cold fireplace flanked by two empty seats, poorly framed as it includes part of a lampshade on the left and part of a bust on the right).

I have no idea what Clint Eastwood is trying to convey here.
posted by srboisvert at 2:16 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Pelosi just took off her heels and did a victory jump with MoveOn protestors outside the Capitol building.
posted by chris24 at 2:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [46 favorites]

If Americans weren't subsidizing drug prices for the rest of the world, though, what would they be paying?
posted by R a c h e l at 2:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Yes, it's absolutely not worth forgetting that a lot of the Republican no votes were because they thought the Republican healthcare bill was not cruel enough as shown by the 'revisions' to the bill the last few days.

Don't believe for a second that any Republican truly has your best interests at heart.
posted by flatluigi at 2:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

We learned a lot about some very arcane rules

Every now and then I am utterly confounded all over again by the sheer hubris of a man with no more understanding of government than a goat thinking he is qualified to run our country. Then I remember he was elected and get so so depressed.
posted by winna at 2:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [29 favorites]

“I think the Democrats are celebrating big time," grumbled Rep. Bradley Byrne (R-AL). "This is a major victory for them.” YOU ARE NOT WRONG, SNIDELY WHIPLASH
posted by WordCannon at 2:20 PM on March 24, 2017 [49 favorites]

fluttering hellfire: This White House statement is bananas

MattWPBS: Link?

I don't have one, but let me say that WhiteHouse.gov is terrible right now. There are two main links on the front page: President Donald J. Trump's Joint Address to Congress [WATCH THE SPEECH] (from Feb. 28, 2017), and Obamacare Disaster Stories [SHARE YOUR STORIES] (a form to fill in your story, not dated)

That's it for the bulk of the front page. Seriously. No link to health care under the Issues menu. Nothing on the current page of the blog about health care (three links from yesterday, seven from today, including the previously mentioned photo of the day).

Sad.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

so ear-fuckingly incompetent

dont kinkshame
posted by beerperson at 2:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

"I never said repeal and replace Obamacare within 64 days. I have a long time"

Here's the fact check. On November 1, he said that they'll do it "immediately" and he'd even call a special session to do it faster.
posted by zachlipton at 2:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

The bunch of Republicans in question is the Freedom Caucus. They killed this bill because it wasn't horrible enough. I wouldn't count on their support to block future horrible things.

Well, that's half of them, the other half are the Tuesday Club who wouldn't support something the Freedom Caucus would. The two wings are too far apart to act as one coherent party in certain situations.
posted by MattWPBS at 2:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Don't believe for a second that any Republican truly has your best interests at heart.

They don't have to have our best interests at heart to get the knives out. They can start a fight over who gets to make it illegal for me to eat, and I won't care if the end result is that they stab each other to death. This debacle broke a Republican caucus that had been voting in lockstep into warring factions that couldn't unify to pass a bill -- hopefully those divisions will only deepen over time.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

The myth of Paul Ryan was shattered today. It contrasts Pelosi's incredibly effective ability to whip votes, using the White House, using outside groups, getting people to call up reps

Pelosi gets a lot of flak around here because she isn't charismatic and she doesn't have good TV presence, but I have great respect for her and think she is without a doubt the most effective Speaker since Tip O'Neil. Pelosi deserves credit for shepherding the Obamacare bill through after everyone else, including Rahm Emmanuel and Obama himself had given up and moved to other issues. She's the bestest. She gets shit done.
posted by JackFlash at 2:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [123 favorites]

NPR would like us to know that the house intelligence committee investigation into the Trump campaigns Russia ties is sliding into partisanship.

F* NPR. There's supposed to be cake coming.
posted by petebest at 2:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's telling that Trump spent all his time blaming Democrats, while Ryan didn't go there at all, because Ryan knows his job was to deliver the votes and he couldn't get it done.

Breitbart isn't going along with the "blame Democrats" strategy either; they're continuing their war on Ryan:

Republican officials in Congress and the White House are now openly discussing finding a GOP replacement to Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) as Speaker of the House, after Ryan failed to pass the American Health Care Act out of the House and misled the public and President Donald Trump when he promised repeatedly the bill would pass.
...
“This is another example of the staff not serving the president well and the weakness of the Paul Ryan speakership,” a source close to President Trump told Breitbart News. “This calls into question once again the speaker’s commitment to supporting Donald Trump and his agenda.”

“Speaker Ryan proved today that he does not have the best interests of the President at heart,” said another source close to the president. “He sold out the president and showed his word can be taken with a grain of salt. There is only one course of action that should be taken to move past this catastrophe and that is the swift removal of Paul Ryan from the speakership.”

posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

The bunch of Republicans in question is the Freedom Caucus. They killed this bill because it wasn't horrible enough. I wouldn't count on their support to block future horrible things.

Right, I'm not suggesting we count on these particular scumbags to be on our team for anything, but I think there is some significance in the rupture of party unity, and I'm wondering if there might any way to use this first real split to encourage other members of their party to consider open defiance as a viable approach, at least on an issue-by-issue basis. I guess the only thing to do is to keep up pressure at town halls and the like, but the main thing giving me hope out of this is that we've now seen the bloc can be split, and that whoever decides to go next will not have to be the first.
posted by contraption at 2:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

In part, because of end-of-life care being really expensive and not, according to many medical providers, even /useful/. But you just can't politically say it - when the Dems tried the GOP accused them of wanting death panels, and when the reverse happened there was no shortage of Dems talking about "why do you want granny to die".

I'm no statistician, but it seems like you could add significant quantities of people to the rolls if there was more of a hard cutoff for extraordinary measures that don't preserve quality of life.

I haven't read this whole thread, because that's impossible, but I can vouch for this. My day job is updating medical records for long-term and skilled nursing facilities, and end-of-life care is fucking insane, y'all.

The average person in a nursing home is taking twenty-plus pills a day, and nearly all of them are on anti-depressants (your Prozacs, Zolofts, and the like) and anti-anxiety medications (like Xanax, Ativan, and Valium), and opioids like morphine, hydrocodone, and oxycodone. Basically America as a society is at a point where we have to dope up our elderly to the limit to make it possible to even care for them, because their circumstances are so nightmarish that they would otherwise be constantly overwhelming the nursing staff with their agitation and unhappiness. We are literally living too long. We've figured out how to make that possible, but we haven't figured out how to make that pleasant.

Of course, your mileage may vary; you may want to go out in a haze of opioids and benzodiazapines, but there's no question that it is very expensive to do that, and very profitable for the companies providing those drugs, like the one I work for. But I based on what I see in my job, I don't think it'll be very pleasant even if you are doped up to your eyeballs on morphine.

See also the various articles that pop up once or twice a year about how the doctors administering end-of-life care absolutely don't want to pass the same way their patients do. I don't have any links at my fingertips, but I know I've seen one or two on Metafilter over the past couple of years.
posted by Caduceus at 2:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

Jill Biden parody account: Ironically "pulling out" is the only method of birth control covered under the #AHCA. #Trumpcare #KillTheBill
posted by Talez at 2:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

Is this what winning so much we get tired of winning feels like? I'm not tired yet?
posted by Justinian at 2:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

>> mostly fascinated by how they will pin this on Dems
> Hamfistedly, mendaciously, and with so much straight-faced hypocrisy that it will take your breath away.

When asked, an unnamed White House source replied, "Ubiquitous. Mendacious. Polyglottal. Like a couple of donkey balls", while apparently blinking in some kind of code.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 2:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

“This is another example of the staff not serving the president well and the weakness of the Paul Ryan speakership,” a source close to President Trump told Breitbart News.

Bannon

“Speaker Ryan proved today that he does not have the best interests of the President at heart,” said another source close to the president.

Bannon talking in a funny accent
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [43 favorites]

[The American Electorate and the Congressional GOP are walking through a nightclub. A group of Democrats passes and bumps the GOP's drink.]

GOP: "Yo! Hey! Which one of y'all motherfuckers..."

[Obamacare turns around, seven feet tall and built like a brawler.]

GOP: "...reformed... health care...?"

Obamacare: "I did. The fuck you gonna do about it?"

[The Electorate and the GOP exchange glances. The Electorate leaps between them.]

GOP: "Oh, I'll tell you what I'm gonna do about it! Ooh, yeah -- you lucky I don't have a majority right now, 'cause I'd repeal you in a heartbeat! You're a total disaster! Don't hold me back, America! Don't hold me back!"

[The Electorate steps aside]

Electorate: "Oh, okay, go for it."
posted by Rhaomi at 2:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

Spin hard right!!

@mitchellvii One of my favorite tricks playing poker is to bet big on a hand I know I'll lose so my opponent thinks I'm bluffing next time...

Those who understand strategy are sitting in awe of Trump the Master right now.
posted by Coventry at 2:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Alex Jones Apologizes for 'Pizzagate' Fake News

In our commentary about what had become known as Pizzagate, I made comments about Mr. Alefantis that in hindsight I regret, and for which I apologize to him. We were participating in a discussion that was being written about by scores of media outlets, in one of the most hotly contested and disputed political environments our country has ever seen. We relied on third-party accounts of alleged activities and conduct at the restaurant. We also relied on accounts of reporters who are no longer with us. This was an ever-evolving story, which had a huge amount of commentary about it across many, many media outlets.

As I have said before, what became a heightened focus on Mr. Alefantis and Comet Ping Pong by many media outlets was not appropriate. To my knowledge today, neither Mr. Alefantis, nor his restaurant Comet Ping Pong, were involved in any human trafficking as was part of the theories about Pizzagate that were being written about in the media outlets and which we commented upon.

lol. preparing for a lawsuit?
posted by futz at 2:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [56 favorites]

Pelosi gets a lot of flak around here because she isn't charismatic and she doesn't have good TV presence, but I have great respect for her and think she is without a doubt the most effective Speaker since Tip O'Neil. Pelosi deserves credit for shepherding the Obamacare bill through after everyone else, including Rahm Emmanuel and Obama himself had given up and moved to other issues. She's the bestest. She gets shit done.

Thanks for that - I have been super annoyed at the dems because sheeple dems, but this is a perspective that I will try to remember going forward from this. My criticisms of her (and Schumer) are not based on her lack of charisma or tv presence but from the dem leadership trying to hang on to power, waaaaaay past the time when they should be cultivating new dem leaders. But they have shown leadership on this and the SCOTUS nomination that I respect.
posted by bluesky43 at 2:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Those who understand strategy are sitting in awe of Trump the Master right now.

Trump's chess game has so many dimensions it turns in on itself and becomes checkers.
posted by dis_integration at 2:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I wonder if this great divide in the Republican Party could be exploited to pass some kind of electoral reform that would make third parties more viable. Right now the Freedom Caucus might feel amenable to that sort of thing.
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 2:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

@mitchellvii One of my favorite tricks playing poker is to bet big on a hand I know I'll lose so my opponent thinks I'm bluffing next time...

Those who understand strategy are sitting in awe of Trump the Master right now.

Guys, this humiliating defeat is actually a stunning victory!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

If Americans weren't subsidizing drug prices for the rest of the world, though, what would they be paying?

The pharmaceutical industry couldn't be more delighted that you are parroting their lobbyist bullshit. Pharmaceutical companies spend more more on marketing and advertising than they spend on research. So why do Americans pay twice as much for pharmaceuticals? -- to pay for those non-stop boner pill ads on TV.

Most basic research into new drug therapies is done by government researchers. What pharmaceutical companies spend most of their money on is clinical trials which could be done more cheaply and effectively by government contractors, not to speak of the corruption involved in testing your own billion dollar golden pill.

Paying for-profit drug companies to do drug research is an enormous waste of money. Americans aren't subsidizing the rest of the world. They are foolishly subsidizing the pharmaceutical corporations and their executives.
posted by JackFlash at 2:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [119 favorites]

Politico's Josh Dawsey: White House officials, advisers say Trump is not that upset. He was far angrier about travel ban, Sessions recusal, inauguration crowd size.

Sensible minds in charge. The sensiblest. Priorities totally in the best order, simply the best. We're all gonna see, for sure.
posted by rewil at 2:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

First: the cake will be chocolate (Devil's Food in fact) because that's my favorite kind. With a cream cheese and Kool Whip topping and sparkly blue lettering (because blue is our color). I've bought the ingredients. I'll be baking later, probably pictures later tonight or early tomorrow.

Second: Coventry , I'm not sure what the answer to the "why was I so spectacularly wrong" question is yet. My first guess is that I woefully underestimated both the pettiness and mean spirtedness of the Freedom Caucus, they hated RepubliCare because it wasn't cruel enough and didn't steal healthcare from enough people.

I had assumed their hate of the ACA was bigger than their hate of giving even the smallest, tiniest, little bit of scraps to poor people and I misjudged their priorities. They'd rather have the ACA stand as the Democrat's bill than give their vote (and seal of approval) to a Republican bill that is anything less than perfect in their minds.

I could draw a parallel to the Religious Right's position on abortion: they aren't interested in any outcome, they don't really care if abortion rates go up or down, their interest is simply in making sure the government takes a stand that agrees with theirs. Similarly, and looking back on it, it seems that the Freedom Caucus wasn't actually all that interested in stopping the ACA, they were more interested in making sure that their Party took a stand that agreed with theirs.

I'd thought their priority was ending the ACA because I took them at their word, they kept saying that was their priority. Instead their priority was making sure the Republican Party was untarnished by any hint of giving poor people a break.

That's just a first approximation guess, we'll have a clearer picture as the postmortem continues, as we get interviews with various Reps, as we get a final count on who was pledging no, and so on.

I also think the presence of a tiny handful of Republicans who aren't utterly evil had a role, the moderate Republican is not yet fully extinct and by all reports they were also instrumental in the failure of the AHCA....

And that leads to some interesting questions going forward. It turns out the rumors of deep rifts in the Republican party weren't quite so exaggerated as they first seemed.

Will the Freedom Caucus learn from their experience here and moderate a bit to get the tax plan, border plan, and so forth done? Or is this an outcome they'll be satisfied with and will their priority continue to be absolute purity in the Republican Party? When TrumpTax comes down the line will they demand absolute ideological purity, presumably meaning the abolition of the IRS, the end of a progressive income tax, and replacing our entire tax structure with a flat tax? Or will they just take a "simplified" tax code that gives unto the rich and takes from the poor?

I'm going to learn from my own mistake and refrain from prediction on that one, but I think the next big thing (which does appear to be taxes) will point us to whether or not they'll compromise. If they compromise on taxes, I think it will show they're willing in general to go along with their fellow Republicans (up to a point anyway) and we'll see a fairly by the numbers passage of the Republican wish list. If not....
posted by sotonohito at 2:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

>Politico's Josh Dawsey: White House officials, advisers say Trump is not that upset

He likes to lose once in a while so he doesn't get tired of winnin'.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I can sort of imagine Trump *isn't* all that upset. It wasn't one of his executive orders, or appointees, or crowds. All Congress' fault.
(I can just as easily imagine that the White House is lying as usual.)
posted by uosuaq at 2:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

It's been so long since I've experienced a serious political victory that I'm having trouble even getting to jazzed up by this. It feels like they're just gonna reconvene in a few hours and say 'just kidding, we're still heartless Republicans so here's every one of us voting for this piece of shit'.
posted by DynamiteToast at 2:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

>Politico's Josh Dawsey: White House officials, advisers say Trump is not that upset

He will be after a day of watching the news talking about what a huge failure this is for his presidency.
posted by chris24 at 2:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

So what I'm hearing is that if the Dems own healthcare now, it's time to get a single-payer bill up for a vote.
posted by jferg at 2:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

No presidency! No presidency! *You're* the presidency!
posted by uosuaq at 2:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

Politico's Josh Dawsey: White House officials, advisers say Trump is not that upset. He was far angrier about travel ban, Sessions recusal, inauguration crowd size.

He's getting used to losing, in other words?
posted by nubs at 2:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

The networks gotta put together a highlights reel of every time Trump said he's do something w.r.t. health-insurance/health-care , and lead off with it at the beginning of every panel discussion, turn to the Republican and say, "So?"
posted by mikelieman at 2:46 PM on March 24, 2017

Man, has anybody made a Downfall parody yet for "Trump finds out they don't have the votes to repeal Obamacare"? His shift from angry and energetic to resigned and whiny is creepily similar to the flow of that scene.

More seriously, depending on how this evolves over the next few days and weeks, this could be a real insight into how to stop Trump's legislative and executive priorities: just make it extremely clear up front that he's going to lose, clear enough that even he can see it coming, and he'll just give up, blame some scapegoat, and move onto the next thing.

If we can get through this with only a few tax cuts and stupid fake sellout "infrastructure" laws, the republic might yet be saved.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 2:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

He's getting used to losing, in other words?

I imagine that if he can't cheat someone while playing golf, he does a good act of, "ya got me this time, let me comp you whatevs...", then moving on to the next round, shiny object, etc.

What time is AF1 wheels-up for Palm Beach?
posted by mikelieman at 2:48 PM on March 24, 2017

Also I wanted to just say that I recognized the post cadence pretty quickly as a Warren Zevon reference, and wanted to say cheers to jferg.
posted by Caduceus at 2:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

quidnunc: Yes, but I couldn't manage to make that scan with the song. Sacrifices for art, or something.

Maybe next time fuck the cutesy post design in favor of accuracy, please.
posted by zarq at 2:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Are we required to give a funeral for this miscarriage of a bill?
posted by localhuman at 2:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

I haven't read this whole thread, because that's impossible, but I can vouch for this. My day job is updating medical records for long-term and skilled nursing facilities, and end-of-life care is fucking insane, y'all.

There is no question that the U.S. could do better with end of life care. But the motivation to change should be because we can find ways that are more humane, not because it is too expensive. End of life care can be expensive but it is not the primary driver of high healthcare costs in the U.S and shouldn't be the excuse to just unplug people. We need to do better because it gives people better lives.
posted by JackFlash at 2:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

LET SOTONOHITO EAT CAKE

… and enjoy our victory tonight, but even this has been a huge Trumpian-style distraction from all that other stuff about Nunes, Sessions and the like. I really think it may come down to taking to the streets to demand an investigation.
posted by Soliloquy at 2:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Alex Jones Apologizes for 'Pizzagate' Fake News

Wait - Paul Ryan's monstrous attack on the poor dies on the same day Alex Jones, of all people, apologizes for the Pizzagate ridculousness?

What, next you're gonna tell me David Rockefeller's snuffed it. . . . Holy shit.

TRIFECTA, people! This is not a drill! We have permission to go buy a guitar! A RED one no no wait - Yellow! Fucking neon yellow pointy-ass guitar with all kindsa electrical shit on it! AND CAKE.
posted by petebest at 2:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Pelosi deserves credit for shepherding the Obamacare bill through after everyone else, including Rahm Emmanuel and Obama himself had given up and moved to other issues.

I'm going to need some proof that Rahm Emanuel ever cared about anything on the Democratic agenda other than getting donors to pay up.
posted by srboisvert at 2:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

“Speaker Ryan proved today that he does not have the best interests of the President at heart,” said another source close to the president. “He sold out the president and showed his word can be taken with a grain of salt. There is only one course of action that should be taken to move past this catastrophe and that is the swift removal of Paul Ryan from the speakership.”

And suddenly, the volume of Killing in the Name Of drifting out of a black SUV slowly tooling down Pennsylvania Avenue massively increases.
posted by Copronymus at 2:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

WaPo analysis: Donald Trump played a game of chicken with House Republicans. Then he blinked. Bigly.

Donald Trump was elected in large part on one, loud promise: I know how to make deals these normal politicians don't. Part of that mystique — as outlined in his best-selling book “The Art of the Deal” — is the willingness to call his rival's bluff, to put his cards on the table and ask everyone else to do the same. That's what Trump did Thursday night ... It was vintage Trump, taking a gamble no other typical politician would take ... Then Trump blinked.

That's pretty clearly the conventional wisdom shaping up - he couldn't deliver, he blinked. Weak, weak, loser.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

I really thought that the House Republicans would find a way to pass this shitpile by a vote or two not because they actually wanted it to pass but because they wanted it to die in the Senate. The fact that they couldn't even do that says that the fractures in the party are deeper than I realized and that both Trump and the Congressional Rs have absolutely no idea how the hell to govern. I guess we already knew that but this was the biggest demonstration we've had to date.
posted by Justinian at 2:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

I can sort of imagine Trump *isn't* all that upset. It wasn't one of his executive orders, or appointees, or crowds. All Congress' fault.

As I said above, he doesn't really care about his agenda other than as a way to aggrandise himself. So, yeah, he's probably not mad, because he doesn't care about whether AHCA passed, as long as he can spin it so he doesn't look too bad.

Expect him to start getting mad when/if the Sunday shows call him out for failing to ram the AHCA through after repeatedly reaffirming his dedication to getting it passed.

Pelosi gets a lot of flak around here because she isn't charismatic and she doesn't have good TV presence, but I have great respect for her and think she is without a doubt the most effective Speaker since Tip O'Neil.

I'll drink to that. She's not perfect, but I think she's tremendously underrated as a politician. I hope she gets to sit in the Speaker's chair again some day.

(I still think Schumer sucks, but his promise to filibuster Gorsuch is a step in the right direction.)

So what I'm hearing is that if the Dems own healthcare now, it's time to get a single-payer bill up for a vote.

Call your critters!

From an optics standpoint, Ryan blocking the Medicare for All bill (which of course he will) or Republicans voting it down would insulate Democrats against any underhanded shit HHS does to undermine the ACA. It'll never get past the current Senate even if it gets out of the House by some miracle, but it literally cannot hurt to try at this point.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

One good point: for all of Trump's whining that no Democrats supported this stinker and his talk of how hard he worked on this, he did absolutely nothing to sell the bill to Democrats. If this was a good-faith complaint and he was actually interested in a bipartisian bill, surely he would have been quietly meeting with some Democrats to try to get them on board. But nope. He focused all his attention on the Freedom Caucus.
posted by zachlipton at 2:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Can we circle back around to Comey's WH visit earlier this afternoon? I'm antsy to know more about wtf is happening there!

Can't remember whose tweet I saw, but Comey said he was just there for inter-agency meeting. Nothing to do with Russia.
posted by chris24 at 2:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can we circle back around to Comey's WH visit earlier this afternoon? I'm antsy to know more about wtf is happening there!

The White House claimed it was routine inter-agency stuff and had nothing to do with Russia or investigations, but I think that's all we know.
posted by zachlipton at 2:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Obama right now..
posted by Justinian at 2:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

So Trump has signaled to Washington that he doesn't know how to sustain a fight on an issue. He's also revealed that he has a very limited repertoire of negotiating tactics. I can only hope that his next major push is try to build his multi-billion dollar wall and to get Mexico to pay for it. The winning will go on forever.
posted by rdr at 2:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

Every now and then I am utterly confounded all over again by the sheer hubris of a man with no more understanding of government than a goat thinking he is qualified to run our country. Then I remember he was elected and get so so depressed.

All day I have had this extended analogy running through my head:

An 18th century shipping company has among its fleet, the Pride of the Seas and she is the greatest ship ever built. The Captain takes it out to sail the world and always returns with the cargo filled with luxury goods and treasures. However one of the shareholders never ceases to criticize the Captain's actions. Every pirate encounter does not end with enough blood spilt, the crew is not beaten enough and every trade deal is scoffed at. Most of the other shareholders pay him no mind but some take note and wonder if perhaps somehow he could handle things better.

At last the time comes for the old Captain to retire to his country estate and enjoy his share of the profits. While most of the shipping company urges the hiring of a very experienced Captain to take the helm of the Pride of the Seas, the grumbler has finagled and bought enough proxy votes that to everyone's surprise this landlubber who has never stepped on board a ship before is given the job of setting to sea and bringing the riches of the world back to the Company's warehouses.

Half the crew being terrified of his inexperience immediately abandon ship but the other half sense an opportunity to set their own agendas. A cabin boy who knows little but how to swab a deck presents himself as First Mate. The Captain brings his family and friends with him which raises some eyebrows as all of them are inexperienced as well. Hardly has he come aboard before he goes below deck to avail himself of his cabin to take a nap. There is no one quite sure of who should take control or what should be done next but finally sails are rigged, lines unmoored and the ship with its skeleton crew majestically sails out of the harbor.

The Captain wakes from his nap and lumbers up to the top deck. He is asked where the ship is headed and what adventures await? The new Captain waves vaguely at the horizon and so the ship sails on. The next day the crew await instructions. What is the heading? Where are they sailing? What will they be trading? The Captain scans the horizon with a vague look in his eye. "We shall go where there is treasure to be found." The crew, the family, the friends all look at each other anxiously but hold their tongues. They would not want to criticize for fear of being thought mutinous.

Yet as the days go by it becomes clear that the Captain has never held a sextant, does not understand the currants, cannot name the rigging, has only a hazy idea of what the constellations are, does not know how a compass works, gets North and South confused, and cannot read a map. Plus he has not determined a destination nor does he know what the ship holds for trading purposes. Yet they sail on because how can they turn back now? Perhaps he will accidentally hit land, perhaps he fight the pirates gallantly, perhaps the ship will run out of food and water in the middle of the ocean but still the ship sails on, sturdy and resolute.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [85 favorites]

White House officials, advisers say Trump is not that upset. He was far angrier about travel ban, Sessions recusal, inauguration crowd size.

Welcome to RunningTheCounryMan!

Let's go to the RageBoard and see what is in the lead.

TravelBanBlock has a slight lead over SessionRecusal but inaugurationCrowdSize is still in the lead group.

HealthCareBillFailure is gaining fast and looking large with denials of upset possibly pushing it into the lead.
posted by srboisvert at 3:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

It turns out the rumors of deep rifts in the Republican party weren't quite so exaggerated as they first seemed.

I think sometimes people underestimate the rifts and the fighting in the Republican Party because everyone puts on a smiling decorum face in public. But that has absolutely nothing to do with how vicious it can get when the cameras/public are gone, it just has to do with people's sense of propriety. It says absolutely nothing about how hard they will fight.

I'm not saying people should count on it or anything, but remember just because it seems like people will "fall in line", doesn't mean it's so.
posted by corb at 3:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump called Bob Costas to give his story.

That's Washington Post reporter Robert Costa, not face of the Olympics Bob Costas.
posted by peeedro at 3:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

to my mind, pelosi and schumer haven't done shit - not even any convincing rhetoric. this a victory for dem/prog activists. dem electeds better get their fucking heads in the game.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

I defy the world at large and the inmates of this thread in particular to show me a 76-year-old outside the entertainment industry who has more charisma than Nancy Pelosi. or even half as much.

that shoes-off celebratory hop impresses me a little but knowing she wears heels to work and has done for most of the last thirty years impresses and enrages me so much more. I'm half her age and I can't do that but I'm just a weak woman with nerves and pain receptors. pelosi is made of nails and old car tires and plays the sweet old grandmother card less believably but more adorably than any other woman her age in public life. she pulls it out once in a while like an old vaudeville number that she doesn't give a fuck if you laugh at because this joke is for her. I love her and inasfar as she got us the ACA she saved my life and a lot of yours too. usually I inflate my hate sacs to their maximum capacity at the slightest provocation but I forgive a lot of garbage from Democrats who literally allow me to live.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [146 favorites]

> There is no question that the U.S. could do better with end of life care. But the motivation to change should be because we can find ways that are more humane, not because it is too expensive

Surely some elderly people take that many drugs because that's what they need? I have a relative in an old age home and she takes some serious, serious medication -- because her brain has deteriorated, and it would be cruel to withhold the drugs that stop her agitation. Yeah the home is kinda depressing and the care is not as great as it could be, but even if that were fixed she would still have her aged brain.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

to my mind, pelosi and schumer haven't done shit - not even any convincing rhetoric.

It's a comparison between the present moment and 2010.

Pelosi was able to pull together a Democratic caucus that was at least as fractious as the current Republican caucus and pass the ACA, even though it wasn't perfect (and we all know how much Democrats love to let the perfect be the enemy of the good). That's an incredible accomplishment.

Ryan couldn't wrangle a handful of ornery jackasses in his own party to vote for something they've all been itching to do for nearly a decade.
posted by tobascodagama at 3:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [64 favorites]

Trump tried to drain the swamp—he knew the best people, people you hadn't even heard of!—but then those pesky Democrats forced him to fill his cabinet with billionaires and Goldman Sachs employees. And the Russia connections are all fake news from the fake media, but the Democrats made him fire Mike Flynn.

And now he had the bestest plan to give America the bestest healthcare ever, but it's those darn Democrats again! It's like mean old Bugs Bunny tricking Elmer Fudd in a hairpiece into shooting himself in the ass, just because Fudd is huntin' wabbits.
posted by XMLicious at 3:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

The cruel double standard that could save Obamacare
More Americans now realize Obamacare helps millions of working class whites and that it's not -- as once portrayed by conservatives -- a form of welfare pushed by the first black president to help people of color, historians and scholars say.
posted by robbyrobs at 3:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [37 favorites]

Pelosi was able to pull together a Democratic caucus that was at least as fractious as the current Republican caucus and pass the ACA, even though it wasn't perfect (and we all know how much Democrats love to let the perfect be the enemy of the good). That's an incredible accomplishment.

also something that is totally related to her ghastly great age and experience and decades of connections, all that stuff that makes people say she should step aside and go home. Do I want a younger, spryer woman for a presidential candidate next time? yup I do. For Speaker of the House? heck no. for that, the more grizzled and canny the better.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

@mitchellvii One of my favorite tricks playing poker is to bet big on a hand I know I'll lose so my opponent thinks I'm bluffing next time...

Those who understand strategy are sitting in awe of Trump the Master right now.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Please sit at my table. Please? There's a seat open on my right, which a man of your obvious tactical sophistication should prefer, but whatever. If that's your secret money making plan for a poker game, I think I can ~~earn~~ learn a lot from you!
posted by mosk at 3:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

robbyrobs, I was just reading that, and thinking of posting it. Definitely worth a read.

The media landscape is filled with images of the furrowed brows of anxious white residents at congressional town halls who fear they will suffer if they lose Obamacare, says Judy Lubin, a sociologist and adjunct professor at Howard University in Washington.
"When you see white working-class Americans saying that I'm benefiting and my family is getting help from the Affordable Care Act, you start to hear 'repair' not 'repeal,'" Lubin says. "Whites standing up in support of a policy changes the dynamics of the conversation."

emphasis mine
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 3:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Jumping ahead before reading:

Also, today is my birthday, so, let's do this. And by do this, I mean make Paul Ryan and Donald Trump look like fools.

Today is also my daughter's birthday! She is now six and we have been having a great day; we went to see Beauty and the Beast and built Legos and she wore her new Harley Quinn costume. She got some great books and wrist walkie-talkies and a DC Super Heroes bedspread, and I got a really great present from Washington.

And I forgot to put on my yellow tie this morning so I'm going to go do that right now. Happy Friday everybody!
posted by nickmark at 3:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Also in re Nancy Pelosi, she has done an amazing job for her constituents while wearing heels, getting her hair done to 'may appear in front of cameras at any time' standards, dressed appropriately which is much tougher for a woman (if she showed up in a charcoal suit everyday, she'd be pilloried as dour)...and she and her husband have five kids and eight grandkids. She must not have more than five minutes a day to herself.

She is by far the most underrated person in congress.
posted by readery at 3:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [44 favorites]

He keeps saying how close they were, now says 10-15 votes down, maybe even closer, and keeps blaming the fact that there were no votes from Democrats.

Did he lose by 3 million votes again?
posted by kirkaracha at 3:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

CNN: Trump unhappy Jared Kushner took a powder on the ski slopes as health care bill floundered

Who knows or cares whether Trump, the guy who stopped to play with a big truck has his bill went down, is actually unhappy about it, but someone who hates Jared sure wanted us to think so.

haha.gif
posted by zachlipton at 3:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

Oh how I treasure these rare, fleeting, gossamer non-abysmally-shitty days. Revel in every second, eat all the Go to Hell Paul Ryan cake, because who knows when or if there will be another?
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

I still can't wrap my head around how "we're going to let Obamacare spin out and blame the democrats" works as a stated, public strategy
posted by theodolite at 3:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

>I still can't wrap my head around how "we're going to let Obamacare spin out and blame the democrats" works as a stated, public strategy

One hopes it doesn't. But yeah, normally sabotage works better if you don't wear a T-Shirt that says SABOTEUR.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Someone pointed out on Twitter that the Comey testimony was the same week as today.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

I still can't wrap my head around how "we're going to let Obamacare spin out and blame the democrats" works as a stated, public strategy

He says the loud parts quiet and the quiet parts loud. It's a viable strategy, but not if you tell everyone point blank that it is your strategy.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I still can't wrap my head around how "we're going to let Obamacare spin out and blame the democrats" works as a stated, public strategy

He's saying it now, but he figures that won't matter as long as he shuts up about it for 8 weeks or so prior to starting up the blame machine, and if recent history is any guide he may be right.
posted by contraption at 3:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Joint statement by Barack Obama and Joe Biden.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump (circa 2013)

Just shows that you can have all the cards and lose if you don’t know what you’re doing.

Never truer words tweeted.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

Utah PAC trying to raise money to put up billboards shaming Jason Chaffetz
posted by futz at 3:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

I think sometimes people underestimate the rifts and the fighting in the Republican Party because everyone puts on a smiling decorum face in public.

I truly believe that this is a byproduct of the filter bubble. In an effort to get out of my own bubble, I listen to a lot of right-wing AM talk radio. And let me tell you, in that world it's the liberals (read: all Democrats) who always present a united front. There's a ton of infighting in the GOP, especially now that they're the dog that caught the car.
posted by joedan at 3:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

What I wonder: Did the Freedom Caucus really, actually want to repeal the ACA? Or did they want to posture in such a way that they look like people who really want to repeal the ACA but in fact do not repeal it?

Many of these House members are obviously fools and bottom-feeders, but one assumes that at least a decent percentage of them are intelligent enough to notice that an end to the popular parts of the ACA on their watch would be a huge disaster.

You have to wonder how many private "just between close friends" conversations there have been about how they hope this bill doesn't pass "but of course I'd never say that".

When we get rid of these clowns, we have to improve the Democratic stock too - far too many of these people are game-players who are not fundamentally interested in policy and government.
posted by Frowner at 3:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

a man with no more understanding of government than a goat

Well, if he had the understanding of a goat, he'd support a nanny state, wouldn't he?
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [70 favorites]

That's 230 Republicans that Dems can credibly campaign against on the basis that they voted to throw 24 million off their health insurance. For campaign purposes, the rules vote is just about as good as the actual vote.

The delicious thing is, what are they going to do, say, "No, no, *I* didn't vote to repeal Obamacare! Not me!"
posted by Gelatin at 3:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

This is good news: the HHS Inspector General is going to look into the scuttling of ACA signup outreach when Trump took office, at the request of Sens. Warren and Murray.
posted by zachlipton at 3:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [54 favorites]

Did the Freedom Caucus really, actually want to repeal the ACA? Or did they want to posture in such a way that they look like people who really want to repeal the ACA but in fact do not repeal it?

I think they would like to repeal the individual mandate of the ACA (which whether you agree or not, has a moral component for some), kick out the supports, let it fail on its own, and then propose a form of healthcare that only affects citizens and is administered by the states.

I don't think that can happen under Trump, though.
posted by corb at 3:37 PM on March 24, 2017

I'd like to suggest a cake for every victory, but given Trump's track record so far, after a month or so we'd start losing our feet from diabetes.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Costa's story on his phone call with the President has been updated. The kicker:

As Trump tried to hang up the phone and get back to work, I asked him to reflect, if at all possible, on lessons learned. He’s a few months into his presidency, and he had to pull a bill that he had invested time and energy into passing.

What was on his mind?

“Just another day,” Trump said, flatly. “Just another day in paradise, okay?”

He paused.

“Take care.”

He got everything he ever wanted and he sounds so damn miserable and I cannot tell you how happy that makes me.
posted by zachlipton at 3:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [127 favorites]

Well, thank you Lester Holt. NBC Nightly News immediately followed up the video of Trump's assertion that "We had no democrat support. They weren't going to give us a single vote" by rebutting that it failed because he didn't have Republican votes.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 3:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [54 favorites]

“Just another day,” Trump said, flatly. “Just another day in paradise, okay?”

There are many good options on youtube to accompany this statement, but it's been a long week so I'm gonna go with this one.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think they would like to repeal the individual mandate of the ACA (which whether you agree or not, has a moral component for some), kick out the supports, let it fail on its own, and then propose a form of healthcare that only affects citizens and is administered by the states.

The problem with the Freedom caucus is that they think too small when it comes to stopping big government.

Why stop at healthcare? Repeal the gas tax, kick out the supports, let the bridges fail on their own, and then the a form of road transport that only citizens are allowed to use and is administered by the states.
posted by Talez at 3:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Russia's state news service applies for White House pass
posted by futz at 3:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

Can't Putin just cc: them the notes when he sends them to Spicey?
posted by Freon at 3:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

From Reddit:

Obamacare took 9 months to negotiate, had 160 GOP markups, had the support of the American Medical Association, AARP, and American Hospital Federation, and twice President Obama addressed the nation directly in a prime time speech to lay out the benefits while he had a 63% approval rating.

Trumpcare was introduced on March 3rd, had not a single mark up, was not endorsed by any of the aforementioned organizations including even the Koch Brothers, and is projected to drop 24,000,000 from insurance all pushed by a President who couldn't write down 10 facts about healthcare with a 37% approval rating two months into his illegitimate Presidency.

Republican intellectualism is a lie, these people have no idea what they're doing because for the last 8 years they've been lying to themselves that Obama was a Muslim Kenyan hell bent on destroying America and now they forgot what reality actually was.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [196 favorites]

In a weird, tiny way I feel sorry for Trump.

The funny thing is that even now, if he were to go to therapy and try to do things that would genuinely make him loved or at least liked, he could have a private life that would probably make him at least somewhat happier than he is now. If he'd just stop presidenting and retire, try to repair relationships with his family, get some sycophants who actually like him a bit, etc, he would have a ready source of real love, or at least real like.

Leaving all else aside, he seems like someone who is driven further and further into a kind of life that can never give him what he obviously wants.
posted by Frowner at 3:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

I love the part of Trump's statement where he says like a whole paragraph of nasty, insulting, pissy things about Democrats and then invites them to work with him on a bipartisan basis, which he thinks they'll do real soon.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

The Death of Paul Ryan, Policy Genius

Savage burn herein:

Ryan’s sparkly reputation rested partly, of course, on the soft bigotry of low expectations (better than you would expect a Republican to be!), but also on appearance. Ryan looks like a thoughtful man. He can furrow his brow in simulation of abstract reasoning.

posted by Existential Dread at 3:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [60 favorites]

then propose a form of healthcare that only affects citizens

What does this even mean?
posted by JackFlash at 3:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I always think that he doesn't understand the meaning of "bipartisan".
posted by Namlit at 3:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ok, we're on a quite a roll with birthdays. Who's up next? If we can have a MeFi lucky birthday everyday for the next four years, maybe we can make this.

Oooh, oooh! I have a birthday coming up next month!

I can't tell you what I'm wishing for (because then it won't come true), but it does involve Bannon, Gorka, and a particularly insidious strain of the cordyceps fungus.
posted by darkstar at 3:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

“Just another day,” Trump said, flatly. “Just another day in paradise, okay?”

Trump continued: "I've been thinking about how that song, an incredible song, I love Phil Collins he's an incredible artist. I've been thinking about how that song is basically my life. He's singing about h... that you know, you're a rich guy in New York and these poor people just keep coming up to you begging for money. It's cold they say, well I can tell it's cold! Talk about stating the obvious! These poor people give you a weather report and you wonder where all this so called global warming is to help them. If the liberals were right these poor people wouldn't be cold and they could sleep in the park. Because we have very nice parks. I even tore down a park to make room for my building. Replaced it with this beautiful atrium with a couple of trees. Plenty of places for people to sleep, you know, when they pay for it because if you just GIVE people a place to sleep you'd have nobody working for their house and the economy would collapse BIGLY. Believe me.

Then... THEN! She apparently can't walk! You know, she's just come up to me, putting on this act, she's got the blisters and everything! You know how bad people do that? When they're begging for money they gotta look the part and they spend all this money on makeup and all this money on bad clothes and they just want to swindle you! It's incredible folks, believe me I know some of these people and they make hundreds of dollars a day. TAX FREE might I add. Some even quit their jobs to do it! They move on from place to place, just like in the song, once the police cotton on to them and try to arrest them for swindling the people.

But there are some people out there who are struggling folks, people like you. Those people call out to God and they want to know if there's anything that anybody can do to help them. Well I'm here to tell you that your prayers have been answered and the lord has said, through me, that I'm here to help. I'm going to make sure you all get to spend another day in paradise and, believe me, I'll make sure there's no people trying to get up in your grill when you can barely afford to make ends meet yourself! Believe me!"

[fake, so far]
posted by Talez at 3:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Yet another update on the current ranking of /r/the_donald's "rising submissions" tab:

#10: To anyone brigading or thinking that today was a huge loss for Trump - DO NOT forget just who this man is!
#9: The AHCA is DEAD. We have grounds to demand Rat Ryan step down. We can now craft a BASED bill that honors the populist wing that voted President Trump in. KEK HAS WILLED IT, today is a good day Pedes!
#8: POTUS in 2014: Negotiations 101: The best deals you can make are the ones you walk away from...and then get them with better terms.
#7: TRUMP IS A SON OF A BITCH FOR REPEALING OBAMACARE! NOW: TRUMP IS A SON OF BITCH FOR LETTING OBAMACARE EXPLODE! WHAT IS THIS FAT FUCK SAYING? (referring to fox commentator Bob Beckel)
#4: Never Forget: Paul Ryan - ‘I Am Not Going to Defend Donald Trump—Not Now, Not in the Future’ - Audio
#3: Paul Ryan was just blown out the airlock, here's the Obamacare Repeal bill WE ACTUALLY WANT.
#2: *IT BEGINS* Matthew Boyle of Breitbart reports ---> GOP OPENLY DISCUSSING REPLACING PAUL RYAN AS SPEAKER!
#1: Let's be clear, President Trump and us at The_Donald have NEVER been in favor of Ryancare (a.k.a. Obamacare lite). We opposed Ryancare as much as most of r/all has and are glad to see it die. The only thing we are in favor of is a full and total repeal of Obamacare. Let's make it happen!

Holy infighting-slash-denial, Batman!
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Fred Trump is dead and in Hell and nothing will ever bring him back to tell Donald that he's a winner and a killer and old Fred is proud of him, and right now Donald is probably settling in to the fact that even becoming President of the United States isn't enough to make that not matter anymore. Feels bad, man
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

then propose a form of healthcare that only affects citizens

What does this even mean?

Presumably something that would allow undocumented people and visa holders be turned away from ERs to die in the gutter, if previous Republican efforts are to be believed.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Depends on the Freedom Caucus member?

I've been riveted by Justin Amash for the past week or so: he is a real, actual libertarian for good or ill (ill. it's ill) & really for real believes that (1) the Constitution provides Congress with extremely limited governing authority and (2) the government should do as little as is humanly possible. He's consistent: he also opposes defense expansion and police expansion and he absolutely hates Trump. From that side of the right, a pure repeal is literally the only thing that could do any good, because the AHCA deforms the markets more, not less, and he's the guy who made the obvious but somehow generally unmentioned point that gutting EHB without returning to the private market altogether would just brutalize the poor.

I believe that dude cares about the poor and cares about getting them health care, and I believe that he thinks that guaranteed healthcare is a boondoggle that'll prevent that. I just think he happens to be completely wrong on all of his premises and shouldn't govern a student council, let alone a country. But his was a real and unfeigned opposition and it was aaaaalmost fun to watch it play out.
posted by peppercorn at 4:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Ryan’s sparkly reputation rested partly, of course, on the soft bigotry of low expectations

Another great Republican epithet is coined:

Obvious Anagram Reince Preibus
Small-Handed Donald Trump
Articulate Republican Paul Ryan
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

#2: *IT BEGINS* Matthew Boyle of Breitbart reports ---> GOP OPENLY DISCUSSING REPLACING PAUL RYAN AS SPEAKER!

*rubs hands together*

"Good...good..."
posted by darkstar at 4:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump looked older at his white house comments event today, much older than just a few months ago...he genuinely looks ill.
posted by robbyrobs at 4:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

He got everything he ever wanted and he sounds so damn miserable and I cannot tell you how happy that makes me.

Here lies everything
The world I wanted at my feet
My victory's complete
So hail to the king...

(Everything you ever)
posted by PontifexPrimus at 4:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

But who would replace Paul Ryan? Gowdy?
posted by Brainy at 4:06 PM on March 24, 2017

Paul Ryan is irreplaceable.

I mean irredeemable. DAMN YOU AUTOCORRECT
posted by uosuaq at 4:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

#2: *IT BEGINS* Matthew Boyle of Breitbart reports ---> GOP OPENLY DISCUSSING REPLACING PAUL RYAN AS SPEAKER!

*rubs hands together*

Breitbart and the Deplorables have been calling for Ryan's blood for awhile now. Still, always good to see!
posted by futz at 4:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Based American Health Care Act of 2017 - “It’s the based!”
posted by Going To Maine at 4:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Leaving all else aside, he seems like someone who is driven further and further into a kind of life that can never give him what he obviously wants.

Fred Trump is dead and in Hell and nothing will ever bring him back to tell Donald that he's a winner and a killer and old Fred is proud of him, and right now Donald is probably settling in to the fact that even becoming President of the United States isn't enough to make that not matter anymore. Feels bad, man

Indeed. Nothing will ever fill the hole. Best thing he could do is inspire people not to be like him.
posted by yoga at 4:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

It's so nice to mark another big one in the win column. That said, continuing to apply pressure to as many different legislators as possible is key because we're still gonna get knocked around.

If, saints preserve us, we can actually take back our Congress and Presidency from the Kremlin's stooges by 2020, it will be essential to continue hounding our legislators to enact a public option (or single payer) for health care, tax increases on the extremely wealthy, and protections for women/immigrants/refugees/LGBTQ+ people and so on. We can't squander all the wonderful organization efforts that so many folks have contributed in the past few months. I hope what people take from this clusterfuck is that we can never, ever rest on our laurels (like in 2008-2010).

We have to be the party that really is for enacting real, effective policy solutions that help as many folks as possible--and, yeah, even the people who hurts us terribly by voting for that guy.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Ah memories. I recall a time (not so long ago!) when Boehner was an impotent, discredited speaker, and yet no one would willingly take the gavel from him. Now we might get to do it again! Whose career should get wrecked next?
posted by Existential Dread at 4:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump looked older at his white house comments event today, much older than just a few months ago...he genuinely looks ill

I mean, the man has gone from working maybe one day a week to working 4 days a week...in his condition that's gotta be gruelling.
posted by TwoStride at 4:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

Ok, I know there's a sort of Hamilton moratorium, but please enjoy this animated snippet of You don't have the votes while thinking of #45 and the Granny-Starver tonight.
posted by TwoStride at 4:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Ok, we're on a quite a roll with birthdays. Who's up next? If we can have a MeFi lucky birthday everyday for the next four years, maybe we can make this.

Well, my half-birthday is coming up next week - exactly six months away from my birthday. But if there's any good news happening, I may not be able to take it in: I'm scheduled that day for some "not too major heart surgery", getting a pacemaker implanted. But when I come back I'll be a Medicare Cyborg so I can do more to fight the good fight.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

This bunch of fucking clowns.

7 years of screaming bloody murder about Obamacare, I don't even know how many bills attempted to repeal it, and now that they control the House, the Senate, and the WH suddenly "Obamacare is the law of the land. It is going to remain the law of the land"?

Try to spin that, motherfuckers.
posted by lydhre at 4:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

So Trump has signaled to Washington that he doesn't know how to sustain a fight on an issue. He's also revealed that he has a very limited repertoire of negotiating tactics.

He's also shown he is unable or unwilling to do the political work required to sell his agenda to the American people. His health care pitch was 1) promise that everything was going to be better and cheaper, 2) repeating over and over that Obamacare is exploding, 3) say it's gotta be done to get to the rest of their agenda. That's it. There were no policy speeches, no appearances at hospitals or clinics, no rural drug addiction counsellors used as props, no support from conservative think tanks with sunny numbers, no outreach to any industry stakeholders, none of the standard things a politician does to advance their policy goals. That requires work from the president, discipline from his White House, and coordination between the White House, the party, and the swamp.

Will low energy Trump be able to sell an unpopular Great Border Wall? Will he be able to sell rewriting the tax code? His only pitch for these so far is "Big and Beautiful Wall" or "Biggest tax cut since Reagan", but these pitches don't resonate with voters when they're being asked to pay the bill. These are appeals to Trump's own ego and legacy, not to the taxpayer's interests.

To get anything big done, Trump is going to have to actually work at the job and learn how to sell his vision beyond the Fox and Friends panel. The good news is that Trump is lazy and entitled, doesn't seem to learn from his failures, and has a huge blind spot to how much work Obama put in for every one of his successes. The bad news is he might have 1396 more days to try.
posted by peeedro at 4:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [53 favorites]

After Promising Not To Talk Business With Father, Eric Trump Says He'll Give Him Financial Reports

“There is kind of a clear separation of church and state that we maintain, and I am deadly serious about that exercise,” he says, echoing previous statements from his father. “I do not talk about the government with him, and he does not talk about the business with us. That’s kind of a steadfast pact we made, and it’s something that we honor.”

But less than two minutes later, he concedes that he will continue to update his father on the business while he is in the presidency. “Yeah, on the bottom line, profitability reports and stuff like that, but you know, that’s about it.” How often will those reports be, every quarter? “Depending, yeah, depending.” Could be more, could be less? “Yeah, probably quarterly.” One thing is clear: “My father and I are very close,” Eric Trump says. “I talk to him a lot. We’re pretty inseparable.”

Ethics experts are concerned. (Forbes Magazine)
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [55 favorites]

Trump is going to have to actually work

That's the hardest I've laughed in the last few days, thank you.
posted by flatluigi at 4:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Actually having the power to redo Obamacare is turning out to be Kryptonite to the Republican party. Nothing could more starkly illuminate the fact that there isn't "a" Republican party and hasn't been for decades; at this point it's about four parties in loose coalition, and while they can all agree they don't like Democrats when it comes to actually doing something affirmative, they don't agree on much at all.

The Republican political majority is razor thin and only exists because of gerrymandering and propaganda and other tricks. The Republicans don't have a majority if they lose any of the loose coalition of subgroups that they call members. Problem is, there are still a significant number of moderates that don't want their constituents to lose healthcare, both because they're not monsters and they don't want to explain how it happened to their voters. There aren't many of those guys left because they've been steadily driven out over the years, but there are still enough that without them, no Republican majority.

There are also the racists who heard the Southern Strategy dog whistles who certainly don't want "those people" getting anything from their taxes, but they've also noticed that cousin Bob and his wife Martha have health insurance now and without it Bob's stent might have been a heart attack instead, and Martha might be paying a lot more for her arthritis meds. They don't want to kick "those people" off the teat if it means kicking Bob and Martha off too, and their representatives know this.

Meanwhile, at the other end of ~~Mordor~~ ~~the Northern Wall~~ the cesspool, are those fundies who don't want anyone but the rich to have anything and will screw their own constituents to the wall to make the Koch Brothers a little richer, damn the reelection and drown the government in a bathtub anyway, and those people aren't going to vote for anything that would make the first two groups happy. So it's not a solvable problem unless somebody does the unthinkable and figures out how to get support from outside the "party." The Democrats have their own factions but now they're in the position of being able to fold their arms and say "NO" while laughing.

So it's not just Trump who might not make it to the next Presidential election. The Republican party as we've known it all my life is disintegrating before our eyes, and Trump is actually helping to pull it apart because unlike many of the members desperately trying to hold the coalition together, he doesn't give a rat's ass. His insistence that they hold the vote is in this character; he would rather see a clean final failure and move on than have things drag on. I've liked to point out that Trump has a history of burning things down that aren't working for him; while we were all worried his next torch job might be on the USA, it 's starting to look like it will really be on the Republican Party.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

there isn't 'a' Republican party and hasn't been for decades; at this point it's about four parties in loose coalition

A loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires and babies.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:30 PM on March 24, 2017 [46 favorites]

...These are the days of manacles and plunder,
This is the long-distance wall
posted by Flashman at 4:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

White House officials, advisers say Trump is not that upset. He was far angrier about travel ban, Sessions recusal, inauguration crowd size.

I keep going back to this and I'm not sure what's more amazing; that he would be more upset about crowd size than the defeat of his and Republican's signature issue, or that someone senior on his staff volunteered that comparison.
posted by chris24 at 4:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

At last the time comes for the old Captain to retire to his country estate and enjoy his share of the profits. ... the grumbler has finagled and bought enough proxy votes that to everyone's surprise this landlubber who has never stepped on board a ship before is given the job of setting to sea and bringing the riches of the world back to the Company's warehouses.

I would watch this show on Netflix or Amazon or whatever streaming service it ended up on. But I don't want to be living in it.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Ryan accidentally gives away the plan.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

The Republican party as we've known it all my life is disintegrating before our eyes, and Trump is actually helping to pull it apart because unlike many of the members desperately trying to hold the coalition together, he doesn't give a rat's ass.

I had a pet theory in the innocent and carefree days of 2016 that this was Trump's plan all along. He would swoop in and destroy the Republican coalition, then find some innovative way to profit from the chaos. These days I don't believe that Trump has plans to speak of or can even think further ahead than his next tee time at Mar-o-Lago, but Republicans are in a world of shit nonetheless.
posted by Glibpaxman at 4:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm not sure what's more amazing; that he would be more upset about crowd size than the defeat of Republican's signature issue

Because it's not his signature issue; yeah he campaigned on it but it was never very important to him. His ego is epoxied to other things.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump:

We will immediately repeal and replace ObamaCare - and nobody can do that like me. We will save $'s and have much better healthcare!

posted by kirkaracha at 4:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Basically America as a society is at a point where we have to dope up our elderly to the limit to make it possible to even care for them, because their circumstances are so nightmarish that they would otherwise be constantly overwhelming the nursing staff with their agitation and unhappiness.

Makes this episode of Grimm look like a real upper.

Leaving all else aside, he seems like someone who is driven further and further into a kind of life that can never give him what he obviously wants.

Seriously, when I get finished typing up numerous notes on the book "Emotional Vampires" I need to post it to one of these threads. It's taking me forever, but it is so poster child Donald. Suffice it to say "he will never be satisfied." (Sorry. Can't help the Hamilton.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

The White House spins to the Post: ‘The closer’? The inside story of how Trump tried — and failed — to make a deal on health care

Even as he thrust himself and the trappings of his office into selling the health-care bill, Trump peppered his aides again and again with the same concern, usually after watching cable news reports chronicling the setbacks, according to two of his advisers: “Is this really a good bill?”

In the end, the answer was no — in part because the president himself seemed to doubt it.

There's a ton of access journalism going on in here, largely in the service of the hope that Trump keeps calling up Costa to chat, so it depicts him as an effective dealmaker, but it still paints a picture of a guy bumbling around, determined to make some kind of a deal, without any regard for the actual polices he's creating. It sounds like he thought he could schmooze his way to a deal by buttering people up and showing them the Oval Office, without doing the months worth of hard work to actually talk policy and build support.
posted by zachlipton at 4:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

"He's also shown he is unable or unwilling to do the political work required to sell his agenda to the American people."

I think he really wasn't very invested in this one, you can tell by his shrugging phone call at the end. And I think the reason he wasn't invested is because he couldn't understand any of it. And if he couldn't understand it, he couldn't sell it. But he did like the sound of "fixing health care." He just naively assumed that, with control of both houses, Ryan and McConnell would get it done, and all he'd have to do is at best bash a few heads together at the end and ta-da, winning!

He'll be much more invested in things he does understand. The #fuckenwall is fish in a barrel for him because it's a goddamn wall, either it exists or it doesn't, so I bet he'll invest way more effort into that. Tax changes will be tougher because he certainly can't understand the problems with tariffs, but again I think we'll see much more fight there because he can understand businesses paying less taxes.

But now he has more enemies in the GOP than he did before... they'll be taking his "vote for this or lose your seat" words and throwing them back at him any day now with "Trump needs to take us seriously or he'll be a one term president." Maybe one of them will remember that Mexico is supposed to pay for the wall!

I guess I'm feeling a little bit optimistic today.
posted by rouftop at 4:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Trump Says He Never Promised to Quickly Repeal Obamacare. Here’s a Bunch of Times He Promised Exactly That.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

without doing the months worth of hard work to actually talk policy and build support.

I think we've identified the problem there...
posted by suelac at 4:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

RED ALERT TRUMP IS STAYING IN DC THIS WEEKEND WHOOP WHOOP.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

Trump calling up NYT, WaPo etc reminds me of that scene in Catch Me If You Can where Abagnale calls up Handratty at Christmas just to talk to a familiar voice.
posted by yoga at 4:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

What is Trump's motivation? I'm at a loss. Let's take a moment to appreciate how easy it would be for him to have 60%+ approval ratings right now.

Republicans don't give a shit about the deficit when a Democrat isn't President; this is known. They would happily vote on a giant budget-fucking tax cut at the drop of a hat. Trump just has to scrawl on the back of a napkin "Cut income taxes 10% across the board" and send it over to Paul Ryan for immediate passage. Ryan can't refuse that offer. Democrats can't possibly filibuster it in the Senate without dooming their midterm chances. That's it! They don't even have to pay for it.

2018 rolls around and every GOP congressrat can run on "We cut your taxes by 10%!", and even though half their constituents don't pay federal income tax, they'll get tickertape parades celebrating their fiscal responsibility and limited government bona fides. Trump starts every rally with "How do you like your new lower taxes? Good stuff right? Thank you thank you! Every American, paying less taxes, it's a beautiful thing". It's easy. It's really, really easy.

So why not just... do that?
posted by 0xFCAF at 4:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

RED ALERT TRUMP IS STAYING IN DC THIS WEEKEND WHOOP WHOOP

He needs a long nap.
posted by valkane at 4:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump's signature policies are racism and tax cuts for the rich. He's not actually a libertarian, so it makes sense that he doesn't really care all that much about the ACA outside of blustery rhetoric.

Now the travel ban? Yeah, of course he was pissed.
posted by jaduncan at 4:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

There's a ton of access journalism going on in here,

What's access journalism?
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:51 PM on March 24, 2017

I find it heartening to see how much Trump hates his job. I think he genuinely believed that he would be in some kind of king-like position where he would be able to make decrees and the apparatus of government would carry them out for him. I really doubt that it ever occurred to him that Democrats were actually working hard on things like health care and immigration; he just thought that they were obstructionists and ideologues and that once he was in charge things would get done the way he thinks they should be. He is such a low-information president that the alternative probably never occurred to him. The fact that he's showered with criticism every day, and that other powerful people have been blocking many of his decrees, seems to really be taking a toll on him.
posted by Dr. Send at 4:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [78 favorites]

"Trump has a history of burning things down that aren't working for him; while we were all worried his next torch job might be on the USA, it 's starting to look like it will really be on the Republican Party."

Quite likely. After 241 turbulent years the political institutions of the United States have proven they're strong enough to withstand a Trumping, but the modern Republican Party began with... I don't know, maybe Reagan? It's less than 40 years old (maybe even less than 30 if you start counting with the "Contract With America" crew that came of age in the '90s) and probably can't take the strain.
posted by Kevin Street at 4:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

> Fred Trump is dead and in Hell and nothing will ever bring him back to tell Donald that he's a winner and a killer and old Fred is proud of him...

Indeed. Nothing will ever fill the hole. Best thing he could do is inspire people not to be like him.

As if he'd even be able to. "These are the chains I forged in life! Check it out, they're bigly bigger than yours! They are the best chains! I am the King of Chains!"
posted by XMLicious at 4:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

What's access journalism?

To a reporter, having access to public figures (e.g. being called on in news conferences, or being able to get them to sit down to interviews) is very valuable. It allows them to write stories based on their own work (versus summarizing events), and is the basis for a lot of the work they get paid for.

"Access journalism" refers to members of the press compromising their reporting (e.g. softball interviews, not asking hard questions in press conferences) so as not to jeopardize their access to these figures in the future.
posted by tocts at 4:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

I wonder if Paul Ryan has shared his Obamacare Disaster Story on Whitehouse.gov yet.
posted by WordCannon at 5:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [59 favorites]

Hey guys whats poppin? I've been spending all day gloating on social media what's happening with that cake tho?
posted by supercrayon at 5:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

What's access journalism?

There's a decent summary here, which cites the Columbia Journal Review: "Access reporting tells readers what powerful actors say while accountability reporting tells readers what they do." In short, the Washington Post, and Robert Costa in particular, has access right now. The President of the United States calls the guy up on his cell phone to tell him that they're pulling the bill before Ryan even has a chance to tell his own caucus. That access allows you to do certain things, like chat with the President and ask him questions at such a critical moment, but it also limits what you're going to say and how you can say it, because you want such calls to keep coming in the future.

In this case, the story is clearly told from the White House's perspective, and depicts Trump as an active wheeler-and-dealer, working hard to pass the bill. It gets its digs in, to be sure, but no doubt there are a bunch of things that Trump would read and smile and say "yeah, I did that, yay me." I have no doubt a story told from the House perspective would look rather different.

That's not to criticize the Post or Costa, and this really isn't entirely a puff piece, especially if you read between the lines a bit, but any story built on the basis that the President immediately calls up a reporter after his bill goes down is going to be based on certain norms of access, and the parties involved aren't going to want to jeopardize those relationships.
posted by zachlipton at 5:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Remember that Trump's most successful and most visible enterprise before this was "The Apprentice" and he did NOT run that show. Mark Burnett did. Nobody on Team Trump is nearly as competent than Mark Burnett is, and his competency is not in making things work, but making them LOOK like they're working. Trump's "deal making" was always 50% promising what he can't deliver, 25% bullying and 25% cheating his 'partners', none of which will get the results he wants here. I, for one, hope he doesn't drop dead from a coronary or makes a perp walk from the Oval Office before his one massive failure of a term ends. Pence is not very competent himself, but he has the possibility of succeeding at some of his goals, all of which are awful.

What's access journalism?
It's why Robert Costa got a personal phone call from The Donald today. Although I think Trump thought he was calling Bob Costas.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Trump’s Choice on Obamacare: Sabotage or Co-opt?. A good explainer on what happens now and what insurance companies are going to be looking for in the next few weeks as they decide what to offer in the exchanges for 2018. The House's lawsuit over cost-sharing (it is amazing that this is an actual thing) chief among them.
posted by zachlipton at 5:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I still can't get over this from Joe Barton:

Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) admitted as much as he left the meeting Friday. Reporters asked why, after Republicans held dozens of nearly-unanimous votes to repeal Obamacare under President Obama, they were getting cold feet now that they control the levers of power.

“Sometimes you’re playing Fantasy Football and sometimes you’re in the real game,” he said. “We knew the president, if we could get a repeal bill to his desk, would almost certainly veto it. This time we knew if it got to the president’s desk it would be signed.”

Dude. You're not supposed to actually say that!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:19 PM on March 24, 2017 [141 favorites]

We are literally living too long. We've figured out how to make that possible, but we haven't figured out how to make that pleasant.

I've seen other mentions about end-of-life care in the States, and I'm a little confused. You do know that in other countries people are living longer and not spending as much on health care?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Ivanka Trump Lives in Washington, Works at the White House, But isn't an Employee Subject to Federal Rules

-- But all of this doesn't sit well with government watchdogs, who are urging President Donald Trump to officially hire his daughter. They wrote a letter to White House counsel Don McGahn Friday that claims Ivanka Trump's position "creates a middle space that does not exist,” The Associated Press reported. The letter signed by two former White House lawyers states: “On the one hand, her position will provide her with the privileges and opportunities for service that attach to being a White House employee. On the other hand, she remains the owner of a private business who is free from the ethics and conflicts rules that apply to all White House employees.”

-- “This is untenable. She can make a decision at any time not to comply and there’s no penalty or sanction whatsoever,” he told the AP. “We don’t normally have White House employees voluntarily complying with rules that were enacted to protect the American people.”

The White House has denied that Ivanka Trump's role is a problem. She will “voluntarily comply with the rules that would apply if she were a government employee, even though she is not,” her attorney Jamie Gorelick said this week.

And she gets all the perks.

Trump Kids’ Aspen Ski Trip Will Require 100 Secret Service Agents: Report

Another source told The Aspen Times that the number of agents would likely be much fewer than 100.

A Secret Service source tells PEOPLE that a total of 100 Secret Service personnel to staff the trip is “reasonable,” given that each of the President’s children plus their spouses and children have security details that must be manned in three daily shifts to provide 24-hour security.

But the organization itself would not confirm or deny the number of agents assigned to the Trump children in Aspen. To some critics, the exact number didn’t matter, only the expenditure of tax-payer dollars to pay the tab.

Mysterious Aspen ski rental contract may relate to Trumps

The U.S. Secret Service signed a contract last week for more than $12,000 with the Aspen Valley Ski and Snowboard Club for rental ski equipment and clothing, according to a federal government website.

However, the club doesn't rent ski equipment and the club's director said Friday he knew nothing of the contract.

"I see all the checks that come through here and I certainly didn't see one from the Secret Service," said Mark Godomsky, AVSC executive director. "For me, this is entirely out of the blue."

The $12,208.25 contract was signed March 10 and is good through March 23, according to the Federal Procurement Data System website. The contract is for "lease or rental of equipment, clothing, individual equipment and insignia," according to the website.

The contract might be related to a visit to Aspen this weekend by three of President Donald Trump's children — Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump — and their families. The large contingent of Trumps is scheduled to arrive in town later today or early Sunday, according to law enforcement sources who requested anonymity.

Other details of the contract listed on the federal website also made little sense Friday.

Demented Donald:

Trump unhappy Jared Kushner took a powder on the ski slopes as health care bill floundered

And I am unhappy that Donnie goes-a a-golfing while the US flounders. I am glad that your security blankies were MIA Donnie. They wouldn't have mattered. You would have FAILED even if they had been by your side.
posted by futz at 5:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Guys, I know you won't want to hear this, but I really think we've been outplayed today. I think this whole thing was fixed so that no matter who won, there was one side that would come out a winner. Look I know people don't want to hear about 8 dimensional chess but I've got this sinking stomach feeling we were all outmaneuvered here.

I think sotonohito set it up so he'd win either way. Either the AHCA goes down, or he gets cake. And we walked right into it, like a bunch of trusting fools.

I am so ashamed.
posted by supercrayon at 5:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [149 favorites]

I find it heartening to see how much Trump hates his job. I think he genuinely believed that he would be in some kind of king-like position where he would be able to make decrees and the apparatus of government would carry them out for him

That was my position before the election, and why I preferred Trump over Cruz. But what I didn't anticipate was that the people who he chose to try and run the government for him would be a bunch of corrupt Nazi wannabes. The problem is he so alienated the few sensible Regionals that there was no one left to join him but the Breibart Brigade. I thought there be adult supervision, and there's none.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

> Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) admitted [they didn't expect to actually repeal Obamacare under Obama] as he left the meeting Friday...

Eh, I welcome his honesty, even if the strategy that underlies it is shit. The R's are clearly the dog that caught the car, and they deserve to get run over by it. I don't feel bad knowing that they knew in their hearts that they'd never actually catch the car while Obama was POTUS. Now that Trump is POTUS, things got uncomfortably real for them in a hurry. They need to actually govern, a skill which they have failed to demonstrate to this point. I don't think they're going to learn how to govern quickly, but I do think they will learn some lessons from today's defeat. To think they won't learn from this defeat is too much hubris for my own side to have at the moment. People do learn, and people do adapt. I'm glad they lost this fight so bigly, but they may be better prepared next time. Although I'm not how they could be any less prepared, tbh.
posted by mosk at 5:30 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Remember that BuzzFeed vroom vroom article? (If not, go read it right now.)

They're printing it up as a picture book: "A fun day in the life of our Commander-in-Chief, The President and the Big Boy Truck is a fun read for ALL ages that shares the story of a special day for the President and his love of trucks."

(To be clear, this could actually have been a kind of endearing moment for a normal President, but it's a really bad look when you do it as you're blissfully unaware that your signature campaign promise is going down in flames.)
posted by zachlipton at 5:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

Hillary Rodham Clinton: Today was a victory for all Americans.

That, donny boy, is how you revenge-twitter.
posted by Dashy at 5:36 PM on March 24, 2017 [65 favorites]

The large contingent of Trumps

If being childishly amused at the mental soundscape this phrase evokes in me is wrong, I am incapable of being right.
posted by howfar at 5:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Fox News Fires Comptroller Judy Slater, Accuses Her of Racist Comments and Behavior

Slater, who is white and has worked at Fox for 19 years, was accused of asking one African-American employee if all three of her children were fathered by the same man, according to an individual familiar with the matter.

She also referred to African American women as “sista” and stereotyped African American employees’ speech, openly complaining that they mispronounced words, the individual said.

In another incident, she responded to a good-night message from two African-American employees who stopped by her office by raising her hands in a “Hands up, don’t shoot” gesture, a slogan associated with the Black Lives Matter movement, the source said.

19 years she got away with this vomitus shit. Fox has taken a lot of body blows in the last few years with many of those blows coming in the last few months. Good. Fuck'em.
posted by futz at 5:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [39 favorites]

I'm glad they lost this fight so bigly
there was no *fight*. the (r) house tripped over their own shoelaces. elected dems cannot be permitted to think that they *won* anything.
posted by j_curiouser at 5:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

My browser tab for this thread says "he's been up all night", and it keeps putting me in mind of Bob Dylan:

he's the President now, and it makes me ill
he's been up all night, standing at the windowsill
hear that noise from the top of the Hill?
he's gonna be impeached, and they'll never pass the bill
posted by uosuaq at 5:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

elected dems cannot be permitted to think that they *won* anything.

Look, I'm not going to pretend this was some major legislative coup for the elected Dems, but keeping two hundred representatives and senators largely out of sight while the GOP shot itself in the face over and over again was a conscious decision and they deserve to be applauded for staying out of things and letting the people see what happens when the monkeys try to run the circus. They did the right thing here and it paid off.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [150 favorites]

Trump unhappy Jared Kushner took a powder on the ski slopes as health care bill floundered

That's what happens when people have unofficial administration roles. They have no responsibilities.
posted by srboisvert at 5:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Philip Klein is managing editor of the Washington Examiner. He hates really Obamacare, to the extent he wrote a book called "Overcoming Obamacare: Three Approaches to Reversing the Government Takeover of Health Care." He wants the whole thing gone and things the free market will magically fix everything. And he just wrote an incredibly scathing piece: GOP cave on Obamacare repeal is the biggest broken promise in political history that's actually worth reading:

Here's the bottom line: Republicans didn't want to repeal Obamacare that badly. Obamacare was a useful tool for them. For years, they could use it to score short-term messaging victories. People are steamed about high premiums? We'll message on that today. People are angry about losing insurance coverage? We'll put out a devastating YouTube video about that. Seniors are angry about the Medicare cuts? Let's tweet about it. High deductibles are unpopular? We'll issue an email fact sheet. Or maybe a gif. At no point were they willing to do the hard work of hashing out their intraparty policy differences and developing a coherent health agenda or of challenging the central liberal case for universal coverage. Sure, if the U.S. Supreme Court did the job for them, they were okay with Obamacare going away. But when push came to shove, they weren't willing to put in the elbow grease.

There was a big debate over the course of the election about how out of step Trump was with the Republican Party on many issues. But at if anything, this episode shows that Trump and the GOP are perfect together — limited in attention span, all about big talk and identity politics, but shying away from substance.

Failing to get the votes on one particular bill is one thing. But failing and then walking away on seven years of promises is a pathetic abdication of duty. The Republican Party is a party without a purpose.

There's another section in there I really want to quote, but it's too long to stuff it all in this thread, where he says "I think Paul Ryan owes Nancy Pelosi an apology" and compares the 13 months the Democrats spent negotiating the ACA to Trump giving up after 17 days, comparing him to Groucho Marx in "Duck Soup."
posted by zachlipton at 5:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [54 favorites]

Slate A Way Forward What Democrats should do to capitalize on the defeat of Trumpcare

It almost goes without saying that Democrats have an unprecedented gift. By simply describing the AHCA and the GOP effort to pass it, they can tie their opponents to dysfunction and cruelty. They can show, in vivid terms, what the Republican Party would do to the public if it had the chance—if it could get itself together. Democrats have no excuse; they should blast the Republican Party with its failure and use the opportunity to tout a comprehensive plan for improving the Affordable Care Act. This could take several forms. They could embrace Sen. Bernie Sanders’ call for universal Medicare; they could introduce a public option to the exchanges, coupled with more generous subsidies; they could announce a plan to federalize and expand Medicaid even further; or they could do a little of each, writing a simple proposal that opens Medicare up to older Americans not yet on there, provides greater subsidies in the health care exchanges, and closes any coverage gaps with Medicaid. And in the short term, they can pressure individual states to adopt the Medicaid expansion as it exists. Whatever the path they choose, Trump’s health care quagmire gives Democrats a chance to move the ball forward and show Americans a real path toward affordable insurance and universal coverage.

The Hill ObamaCare gets new lease on life

Larry Levitt, a healthcare policy analyst at the Kaiser Family Foundation, said that the "Trump Administration has plenty of options to facilitate the collapse of the ACA marketplaces if they wanted to."

He noted that on its own, the administration has broad authority to stop enforcing ObamaCare's individual mandate, which could destabilize the market.

The administration could also cancel ObamaCare payments known as "cost sharing reductions," which reimburse insurers for giving discounts to low-income people, but that Republicans have argued are being paid out illegally without congressional authorization. Insurers could bolt from the market without those payments.

The administration, though, might not want to cause chaos in the health system by taking steps to undermine the law.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Vox I’m glad ACA repeal failed, but I’m angry about it too

Yet we should also take a few minutes to be angry, furious even, about the sad last act of this long political showdown, one that consumed, as Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell put it this week, “the better part of a decade.”

Consider this: Long before Donald Trump came along, the Republican Party ran four election campaigns — 2010, 2012, 2014, and 2016 — on the promise to rid the country of the hated and oppressive Affordable Care Act, or “Obamacare” as they alone called it until 2011, when President Obama unwisely embraced the epithet. In three of those four elections, they captured another arm of government, all on the promise of ACA repeal: the House in 2010, the Senate in 2014, and the White House in 2016. [...]

Yet in all this time, the Republican Party never fully articulated an alternative, beyond phrases like “patient-centered” or “market-based.” (The ACA is, in fact, a market-based system.) It’s now seven and a half years since Eric Cantor, then the Republican whip and a rising star, promised a full alternative to the ACA “within a few weeks.” The various repeals Republicans passed were rough sketches, doomed to failure in the Senate or veto, purely symbolic votes.

And then, when the moment came, when Republicans finally had full control of government, it took barely two months for them to admit they hadn’t really thought it through.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:03 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

“Just another day,” Trump said, flatly. “Just another day in paradise, okay?”

I had a coworker who used this as his stock response to "How's it going?" He was never not sarcastic. I don't think anybody who says this is ever not sarcastic.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

elected dems cannot be permitted to think that they *won* anything.

If anything this was an Own Goal, but players have been killed for such things in the past...
posted by Atom Eyes at 6:05 PM on March 24, 2017

I hope what the Dems do now (after their strategic and beautiful silence, and after they shoot down Gorsuch) is to push for Medicare expansion. Both in the states that have, until now, refused, and to younger and younger inclusion ages until it is, what's the word - universal.

The GOP has done such a nice job of laying the groundwork - after this fight, there's a clear increase in both support for and understanding of what the ACA does. Let's build on that!
posted by Dashy at 6:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Here's the bottom line: Republicans didn't want to repeal Obamacare that badly. Obamacare was a useful tool for them. For years, they could use it to score short-term messaging victories.

Is that not how Republicans used the abortion issue? Republicans really didnt/dont want to fully repeal abortion rights because having it in place is a useful tool.
posted by robbyrobs at 6:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Vice The law no one asked for Students can now carry concealed guns on campus in Arkansas

Over the strong objection of a university chancellor, Arkansas legislators approved a measure this week to allow people to carry concealed weapons in college campuses, bars and government buildings.

Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, flanked by Arkansas House legislators and a gun lobbyist, signed House Bill 1294 on Wednesday, expanding the locations where concealed handguns are allowed. The new state law will take effect Sept. 1.

Arkansas will become the 11th state to allow concealed weapons on campuses. And although Arkansas politicians have for several years promoted legislation to liberalize gun restrictions on public campuses, neither the university leadership nor the students have been asking for them.

The reasoning behind this bill (of course) is to keep people safe from massacre killers who are attracted to places like schools. Would-be killers will now think “Hey, I may run into a concealed carry holder, maybe I need to think to myself I am not going to kill people on an Arkansas college campus today,” Collins said.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Charles Pierce: It's Not Just Bannon. Destroying the administrative state is the longstanding purpose of the Republican Party.

We Had a Good Run. The president* just ran over the concepts of logic and reason.

Flint Is Just the Beginning. Really. 3,000 counties have it twice as bad as Flint.

The Republican Party Cannot Govern. As a result, healthcare is that much more affordable for a bit longer.
posted by homunculus at 6:13 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

“Just another day,” Trump said, flatly. “Just another day in paradise, okay?”

Now imagining The Donald with Phil Collins' (lack of) hair...
Giggles.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think it was 80% own goal, but it was also 20% grassroots pressure, and that's important to remember, because we need to keep up the grassroots pressure. It won't always work, but it can work, and we need to keep calling and sending postcards and showing up and yelling at town halls.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

Another incredibly honest GOP quote:

As the prospect of a loss became more real on Friday, the frustrations of GOP lawmakers loyal to the leadership began to boil over. “I’ve been in this job eight years, and I’m wracking my brain to think of one thing our party has done that’s been something positive, that’s been something other than stopping something else from happening,” Representative Tom Rooney of Florida said in an interview. “We need to start having victories as a party. And if we can’t, then it’s hard to justify why we should be back here.”

Again, this isn't the sort of thing you normally say out loud, let alone on the record.

I've seen a few tweets that indicate that the GOP is just a mess this week on a pretty personal level. Like not speaking to each other in the hallways kind of thing. They've got to fund the government by April 28th, and the debt ceiling needs to be addressed shortly. How the heck are they supposed to do that when they won't even say "hi" to each other?
posted by zachlipton at 6:16 PM on March 24, 2017 [111 favorites]

WaPo Ivanka Trump’s Secret Service detail roiling her D.C. neighbors

Friedman and other neighbors were far less patient when two “No Parking” signs appeared outside the Trump-Kushner house and Secret Service SUVs began swallowing spots on Tracy Place NW, their block in the Kalorama neighborhood.

Their exasperation peaked Monday when city workers installed two additional “No Parking” signs — not in front of Trump’s house, but outside Friedman’s residence next door. [...]“Are you kidding me?” asked Marti Robinson, a trial attorney who lives across the street. “This is the adult child of the president. Sometimes there are 10 cars out here.”

Metal barricades along Tracy Place and Kalorama Road now make it impossible for pedestrians to use the sidewalk bordering the house. Neighbors talk of clusters of Secret Service agents lingering on the pavement, conversing in loud voices and even changing their shirts in public view.

“They’ve completely taken over the whole street — as if they have the authority!” said Robinson

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:23 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

If I could snap my fingers and make an idea go viral it would be for everyone to call up their Republican representatives tonight when their staff is off and just fill up the voicemail with this
posted by jason_steakums at 6:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I had a coworker who used this as his stock response to "How's it going?" He was never not sarcastic. I don't think anybody who says this is ever not sarcastic.

A day in the White House is like a day on the farm. Every meal a banquet! Every paycheck a fortune! Every formation a parade! I LOVE living in the White House -- President Apone
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

"just another day in Paradise" is something suicidal people say before they realize that they're suicidal.
posted by dis_integration at 6:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I felt sorry for ivanka's neighbors in that article until I read that they sent them an engraved welcome note and thought they'd be an asset to the neighborhood. Then it was just more people amazed that the leopards eating faces party was eating their faces.
posted by winna at 6:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [66 favorites]

From zachlitpon's Obamacare critic's tears:
At no point were they willing to do the hard work of hashing out their intraparty policy differences and developing a coherent health agenda or of challenging the central liberal case for universal coverage. Sure, if the U.S. Supreme Court did the job for them, they were okay with Obamacare going away. But when push came to shove, they weren't willing to put in the elbow grease.

Because universal coverage is popular. Not so popular that Republican voters are clamoring to pay for it with tax increases, but pretty fucking popular. Most people like living. Most people, excluding Republicans, don't like seeing their neighbors dead in the streets. The pre-ACA situation finally, at long last, became untenable and the stars aligned to do something in spite of Republican obstruction on behalf of the rich. There was never a coherent rationale or popular support for going back.

There's never been a compelling argument against universal coverage. Oh, Republicans cite costs and taxes, but that argument is flatly refuted by the dozens of other coutnries around the world with workable systems, and further blunted by the fact that everyone who has coverage already pays out the ass for it. Which is why Republicans never really even tried to run against the idea of universal coverage. They resorted to lies about death panels and job killing, whatever that means, and blatantly racist signaling against that N-word in the White House. Never, "we're against everyone having health care". Even in victory, Trump won on the opposite message, bigger, better, cheaper care for everyone.

Republicare, fuck you, die in a ditch care, tax cut care. That never had any appeal to anyone other than Paul Ryan, r/the_Donald, and hate radio zombies. They still may be 30% of the electorate, but that's not enough. This time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

I hope what the Dems do now (after their strategic and beautiful silence, and after they shoot down Gorsuch) is to push for Medicare expansion.

Once more, with feeling.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Ivanka Trump’s Secret Service detail roiling her D.C. neighbors

If you think health care fuckery generated opposition just fuck with Urban homeowner's on street parking and watch the world burn.
posted by srboisvert at 6:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [52 favorites]

Their exasperation peaked Monday when city workers installed two additional “No Parking” signs — not in front of Trump’s house, but outside Friedman’s residence next door. [...]“Are you kidding me?” asked Marti Robinson, a trial attorney who lives across the street. “This is the adult child of the president. Sometimes there are 10 cars out here.”

No more free and convenient spots to park your car in the middle of a huge city. Yet another human right the Trumps have violated.

Schadenfraude level 7/10.
posted by indubitable at 6:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

Politico describes the President's concerns with the bill:

For weeks Trump had seemed disinterested and disengaged from the specifics of the health care fight, both behind closed doors with his aides and at public rallies. Trump “just wanted to get something he could sign,” said one adviser who talks to him frequently. “He was over it.” He would often interrupt conversations on the law to talk about other issues, advisers and aides said.

In one phone call with Ryan earlier this month, Trump told the House speaker that he had a problem with the bill. It wasn’t over Medicaid expansion, maternity coverage, deductibles or insurance premiums. Rather, it was that he didn’t like the word “buckets”—which Ryan had been using to describe the parts of their plan.

“I don't like that word buckets. You throw trash in buckets. I don't like that word,” Trump said, according to two people familiar with the call. Trump preferred “phases.” Ryan agreed and adopted the term.

He had absolutely no clue what was in this thing. During the campaign, his position, to the extent one could derive meaning from his words, ranged from single-payer to complete libertarian paradise. It's astonishing how little he cares.
posted by zachlipton at 6:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

They're printing it up as a picture book

Ordered and shipped to the BBOTUS.
Big Boy of the United States
posted by kirkaracha at 6:42 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

until I read that they sent them an engraved welcome note and thought they'd be an asset to the neighborhood.

Ha!

Welcome to the neighborhood, we'd love to dine with you and hopefully gain some status and insider access. Here's to hoping our property values go up up up!

*Secret Service occupies the neighbor's precious parking spaces*

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU! Our next note will be in crayon, not engraved! WAAAAAAHHHH.
posted by futz at 6:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Once again I have been on MeFi binge-watching America: the unReality Show since breakfast. Please tell the writers I really enjoyed today's "Hoist With Their Own Petard" episode. More like this please.
posted by valetta at 6:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]

Politico describes the President's concerns with the bill:

That easily ranks with the best photos of the President’s hair.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:44 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Fuck you! Fuck the prime interest rate and the secretary of state!
posted by vrakatar at 6:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

“I don't like that word buckets. You throw trash in buckets. I don't like that word,”

Well, he's right of course, and if you're printing up glossy flyers for your auto detailing business that's a point. To make. By, let's say, management. But when you're discussing national healthc WHERE'S THE CAKE?!?!? Hm? Oh! Sorry. Yes.

Buckets.
posted by petebest at 6:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

WHERE'S THE CAKE?!?!?

Based on everything I've read here at Metafilter today, I can say with confidence that the cake is not a lie and we'll soon see evidence of its deliciousness.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

This auspicious day calls for a modification of the traditional Lily Tomlin riff: Please don't stop talking about that caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

According to the Daily Beast, the night before his bombshell press conference, Nunes jumped out of an Uber he was in with a congressional staffer after receiving a message on his phone. His whereabouts were unknown for the next several hours:

"By the next morning, Nunes hastily announced a press conference. His own aides, up to the most senior level, did not know what their boss planned to say next. Nunes’ choice to keep senior staff out of the loop was highly unusual."

Sooooo, that's interesting?
posted by dry white toast at 6:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [55 favorites]

"just another day in ~~paradise~~ paranoia"

Personal Disclaimer: 25+ years ago I had a dream gig writing comedy, including parody song lyrics. Of course I did the above. I also did a parody of Van Halen's "Jump" as "Trump". And a then-current one of Ollie North turning "Funky Cold Medina" into "Funky Cold Marine". Life was simpler then.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

WTF is behind Trump next to the reproduction of Andrew Jackson on horseback?

Is it a rack of Keurig cups?

A set of slammers for his next game of pogs?

Truck-driving pins?

I NEED TO KNOW.
posted by mostly vowels at 6:57 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

The cake is out of the oven and cooling, sheesh y'all are an impatient bunch. I'll frost it in around 20 minutes when it won't just melt the frosting to death instantly. Pictures in 25 or so minutes.

I ask you in advance to excuse my awful icing writing skills. I mean, my handwriting is bad enough, but when I try to write on a cake with frosting it looks... well it doesn't look good. My kid once asked me **NOT** to write "Happy Birthday" on his birthday cake. Ok, not really, but he should have.
posted by sotonohito at 6:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [44 favorites]

Is that not how Republicans used the abortion issue? Republicans really didnt/dont want to fully repeal abortion rights because having it in place is a useful tool.

After 9/11 George W. Bush had record-high approval ratings and in January 2003 Republicans controlled both houses of Congress. Bush "supported a constitutional amendment that would outlaw abortion, except in cases of rape, incest or when a woman's life is at stake" during the 2000 election. If they didn't do it then, when will they ever?
posted by kirkaracha at 7:01 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

California Upholds Auto Emissions Standards, Setting Up Face-Off With Trump
posted by piyushnz at 7:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

If they didn't do it then, when will they ever?

The big difference here is state control of legislatures. I don't have numbers off the top of my head about the difference between the naughty oughties and today, but the GOP has worked hard to gain control of many more state legislatures over the past 15 years. A constitutional amendment ratified by 2/3 of the states outlawing abortion is entirely within the realm of possibility now, and, unlike this healthcare debacle, it's the kind of thing they don't have to crack the whip to get conservatives behind.
posted by dis_integration at 7:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

mostly vowels: They look like challenge coins to me.
posted by valkane at 7:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Bush "supported a constitutional amendment that would outlaw abortion, except in cases of rape, incest or when a woman's life is at stake" during the 2000 election. If they didn't do it then, when will they ever?

They have to do it through the Supreme Court. An Amendment requires a 2/3 majority of both Houses. They're never come close to having that.

Don't be fooled, they really will do it. Gorsuch is another step on the road. They only need to replace Kennedy and it will happen.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:06 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU! Our next note will be in crayon, not engraved! WAAAAAAHHHH.

I forgot to add that all will be forgiven when the Kushner's invite the neighbors over for cheese and crackers. Neighbors will obsequiously RSVP only to find upon arrival that the invitation ends at the Kushner's front door as a secret service agent passes them each one cracker with cheese on an autographed napkin through the mail slot.

Neighbors all log into eBay within seconds to sell their cheese, cracker, and napkin thereby lowering the value of their "buy it now" shame. Parking anger escalates. Stay tuned.
posted by futz at 7:15 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's called a piping bag, sotonohito. Get hip.
posted by valkane at 7:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

“I don't like that word buckets. You throw trash in buckets. I don't like that word,” Trump said, according to two people familiar with the call. Trump preferred “phases.” Ryan agreed and adopted the term.

I've said this before, but Trump is the living embodiment of the bike-shed effect.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:18 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Or the "ugly dog" trick so beloved of graphic designers.
posted by aramaic at 7:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

“I don't like that word buckets. You throw trash in buckets. I don't like that word,”

Is that you Don Draper?
posted by srboisvert at 7:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Andrea Mitchell reported on MSNBC this afternoon (repeated this evening by Matthews & Maddow) that she has heard from a very reliable source that WH staffers & former transition team members are "purging" their personal phones fearing subpoenas.
posted by zakur at 7:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

I feel like I should admit something here. I was reading a lot of comments fairly quickly this morning while trying to get some work done to try to get caught up before Spicey Time and the avalanche of vote news started. So I got the gist that sotonohito was predicting that the AHCA would pass and that, if he was wrong, he would "print out my words on a cake eat them, and publish the photos here" And I didn't really stop to think about all the meanings of the word "print," so in my headcannon all day, I've been assuming sotonohito was going to literally print out his comment, like with a laser printer, and bake the resulting piece of paper into a cake. I am now quite relieved to find out that this isn't happening.

Also, please enjoy: Basketball Fans Treated To Ads Congratulating Republicans For Repealing Obamacare. The American Action Network PAC was so sure this was going to pass, they bought ads asking people to call their reps to thank them for repealing Obamacare, and well, they aired anyway.
posted by zachlipton at 7:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [35 favorites]

My iphone purges sympathetically whenever there's a subpoena. I was going to do an askme about it, but my next door neighbor is a congressional page for Devon Nunes and I lost the bookmark.
posted by valkane at 7:25 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

“I don't like that word buckets. You throw trash in buckets. I don't like that word,”

How about 'baskets'? Would that be less deplorable?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

Andrea Mitchell reported on MSNBC this afternoon (repeated this evening by Matthews & Maddow) that she has heard from a very reliable source that WH staffers & former transition team members are "purging" their personal phones fearing subpoenas.

If true, this is almost certainly a violation of the Federal Records Act and official National Archives guidance.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [36 favorites]

Andrea Mitchell reported on MSNBC this afternoon (repeated this evening by Matthews & Maddow) that she has heard from a very reliable source that WH staffers & former transition team members are "purging" their personal phones fearing subpoenas.

18 U.S.C.§1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations.
posted by Justinian at 7:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

former transition team members are "purging" their personal phones fearing subpoenas.

If true, holy shit they are in a world of hurt. They have been told over and over to preserve all comms. I actually hope it is true b/c that means that they are hiding something and covering it up by destroying government records. In most cases deleting something off a computer is a fantasy. Keep fucking up GOP.
posted by futz at 7:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [58 favorites]

Too bad those are the only copies of their phone messages.
posted by uosuaq at 7:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [68 favorites]

mostly vowels is probably also right, but 18 USC 1519 is AFAIK punishable by 20 years in prison so it seems like that would take precedence.
posted by Justinian at 7:28 PM on March 24, 2017

18 USC 1519 is AFAIK punishable by 20 years in prison

I am not going to discount the possibility that they're stupid and incompetent, but it is also possible that they're trying to cover up something that is worse than that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

"The cover-up is worse than the original crime." Where have we heard that before?

Unless, of course, it isn't.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

I hope you enjoy this NYT headline as much as I do:

Republicans Land a Punch on Health Care, to Their Own Face
posted by zakur at 7:32 PM on March 24, 2017 [46 favorites]

Yeah, to my knowledge the FRA does not apply to transition/pre-inauguration staff the way it does to post-inauguration staffing. But yes, weeks ago the WH staff was told by its own General Counsel to preserve everything related to Russia, so....
posted by mostly vowels at 7:32 PM on March 24, 2017

Whoops, WaPo link is broken. Here's another one.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:34 PM on March 24, 2017

mostly vowels is probably also right, but 18 USC 1519 is AFAIK punishable by 20 years in prison so it seems like that would take precedence.

It's a great plan to delete comms, because outside of the possible 4 FISA warrants that are known about literally nothing could be externally stored by the FBI. Otherwise I'd feel like that was an opening for an enterprising agent to threaten anyone who'd deleted the communications that the FBI CI unit(!) already has stored with a 18 USC 1519 charge if they don't start talking.
posted by jaduncan at 7:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Also, please enjoy: Basketball Fans Treated To Ads Congratulating Republicans For Repealing Obamacare.

There was a "please call your Rep and ask them to pass AHCA!!!!" ad on MSNBC in my region not long ago. Maybe an hour or two?" I just gaped at it in pleasure at seeing a hunk of PAC money go right down the crapper for no reason whatsoever. I'm wondering if the ad traffic people are "accidentally" being a teeny little bit slow to pull things. Oopsie!
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I am not getting any "MSM" hits for Andrea Mitchell's story. Is anyone else?
posted by futz at 7:35 PM on March 24, 2017

Look What House Intel Committee Chair Nunes Hath Wrought

Nunes said the information was collected legally, but his vague and cagey claims were seized upon in a rush of breathless, speculative, and, in some cases, incorrect reports that claimed Trump was telling the truth about having his "wires tapped" all along. The Obama administration spied on the then-President elect, these news outlets agreed (the cat was well out of the bag before Nunes’ office conceded Thursday afternoon that he didn’t know “for sure” that intelligence agencies actually collected communications from Trump or his staffers.)

FFS.
posted by homunculus at 7:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm not seeing any links, but I personally saw a chunk of the Mitchell story replayed on Rachel Maddow.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:37 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

With apologies to The Who and the lovely Eminence Front...

The prez lies
And people forget
The spray flies as Sean Spicer lies
And people forget
Forget they're hoping
The rich fucks smile
And people forget
The bullshit stacks as the pollsters track
People forget
Forget they're wanting
Behind President Trump
President Trump, he's a liar
It's President Trump
It's President Trump, he's a liar
It's President Trump
President Trump, he's a liar
President Trump
It's President Trump
It's President Trump, he's a liar
He's a liar, he's a liar, he's a liar
Come and play the Mar-A-Lago
Links today
Won't you come and play the Mar-A-Lago
Links today, golf today,
Coke blows,
People forget
The young girls lay, the hair's thin
People forget
Forget they're fearing
The news goes
People forget
Their rates splash, hopes are dashed
People forget…
Behind President Trump
It's President Trump, he's a liar...
It's just President Trump
It's President Trump, he's a liar
It's President Trump
It's President Trump, he's a liar
President Trump
It's President Trump, he's a liar
He's a liar, he's a liar, he's a liar
Golf now
Play the Mar-A-Lago
Golf now
Play the Mar-A-Lago
Golf now
Play the Mar-A-Lago
Links today
Golf today, golf today
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Are we required to give a funeral for this miscarriage of a bill? (localhuman)

I think tradition is to send any possible remains to Pence.
posted by nat at 7:40 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

The cake is finished, and I'm eating my words even as I type this.

I must remind you, do not click on the following link to the cake pictures unless you are willing to endure seeing the worst cake writing you will ever see, and that's including stuff you see on cakewrecks.com. Really, my cakewriting skills are at the level of an excited six year old.

Here's the link to an imgur album of The Cake.

My son likes to help, he's ten, so that's his hands in the first picture spreading on the topping.

I don't like icing or frosting, it's too sweet for me, so I top my cakes with a softened block of cream cheese mixed and smoothed with 1/4 cup of sugar and some vanilla extract. Once I've got the cream cheese nice and mixed and easily malleable, I blend in a container of cool whip. Makes for a topping everyone can live with.

The cake itself is a Duncan Hines boxed Devil's Food cake. I do pretty much all of my cooking from scratch, but I never could get the hang of cakes and the boxed product works well enough so I just gave up on making my own cake and have been using boxed cakes without regret or shame for years.

So enjoy people. I sure am, both the cake and the win!
posted by sotonohito at 7:41 PM on March 24, 2017 [339 favorites]

zachlipton Sorry, don't have a cake printer, but that would have been awesome if I did!
posted by sotonohito at 7:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Outstanding, sotonohito.

And I had my celebratory vegetarian barbecue and mead. Tomorrow we fight on, but today we enjoy the sweet.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:45 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Ivanka Trump’s Secret Service detail roiling her D.C. neighbors

In addition to all the Trump-specific conflicts of interest and taxpayer-money-wasting lifestyle, maybe we should think twice about backing old-ass presidential candidates with multiple fully adult children in general. Especially if we insist on electing 1%ers. The Secret Service detail has to be the most expensive in history by now. How many separate residences are they covering on any given day?
posted by p3t3 at 7:46 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm not seeing any links, but I personally saw a chunk of the Mitchell story replayed on Rachel Maddow.

For the record, I am not doubting at all. Video can take awhile to get posted and on msnbc transcripts an take anywhere from a week to never. sigh. msnbc sucks at transcribing. I am probably old school but I would rather read an article than watch a video. Apparently I am a dodo bird.
posted by futz at 7:47 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

The cake is finished, and I'm eating my words even as I type this.

What do you do if you get your NCAA brackets wrong? Play with half a dozen puppies?
posted by Talez at 7:48 PM on March 24, 2017 [48 favorites]

Infowars put up a video of Alex Jones reading his statement backing away from Pizzagate. He apologizes!! Comments and voting turned off, natch. Hee hee.

Other titles of infowars videos from today alone: Benghazi Hero: Ready To Arrest Soros, Photos Of Beautiful Women Posted By James Woods, Why Are Globalists Executing Russians / Trump Right On Jewish Attack, Is Inbreeding A Root Cause Of Radical Islamic Terror?

The top rated comment under the Photos Of Beautiful Women Posted By James Woods video: "You can't bury the damn apology video by posting more videos. You keep losing followers (including me) and I'm pretty fucking angry right now."

hee hee hee
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [23 favorites]

sotonohito is it ok if we repost & repurpose the middle picture for memetic celebrations of future Republican failures
posted by prize bull octorok at 7:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

That is a glorious cake.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:50 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Sorry, don't have a cake printer, but that would have been awesome if I did!

I was like WTF is a cake printer...*lightbulb* lol. I am totally cracking up. Thanks for that!
posted by futz at 7:54 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

A Republican Fiasco Years in the Making
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Tromp had no idea what was in the AHCA. He didn't even know what a HUGE fuck job it was. All he knew was that some minions were putting something together and he was going to take credit for "whatever politicians do when they do it." Like writing bills and legislating.

I have to give the Donald some credit though...he's probably the greatest sham/scam artist in U.S. history. He shammed and scammed his way to the very top. THAT is an accomplishment.

It only happened though because the FUCKING REPUBLICAN PARTY is a band of nitwits hell-bent on their quest to out-moron each other.

Today, we, and hopefully EVERYBODY saw those mother fuckers for what they really are; SYCOPHANTS in the service of CORPORATE OVERLORDS. Each one an ass kissing piece of shit begging for scraps from BILLIONAIRES and entirely UNABLE to function as competent legislators. Losers, failures with completely immoral and reprehensible ideology.

I've been trying to explain this to friends and family since the MOTHER FUCKING '80s. If you can't spend 30 seconds to google "southern strategy" and see what's really going on, well then, fuck you. I don't have time for you.

Today was a good start. Let's keep it up! Cheers to my fellow MeFites and freedom fighters today!!!
posted by snsranch at 7:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

Cake printers are totally a thing, apparently. And now I want a cake printer.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Also, please enjoy: Basketball Fans Treated To Ads Congratulating Republicans For Repealing Obamacare.

Let's assume the act passed. What am I supposed to do here. Call up and say "thank you for taking away my essential health benefits"? Or maybe "thanks for making my policy unaffordable"? Maybe they want me to call up and say "thanks for bankrupting rural hospitals by screwing them on uncompensated care and DHS payments"?

I can think of many things to call a rep about if they passed the AHCA. "Better health care" isn't a single one of them.
posted by Talez at 8:02 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Infowars put up a video of Alex Jones reading his statement backing away from Pizzagate. He apologizes!! Comments and voting turned off, natch. Hee hee.

Is this some kind of attempt to avoid being sued into oblivion? If so I hope it fails.
posted by Artw at 8:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

USA TODAY Editorial Board: Take Devin Nunes off Russian case: Our view

Whether Nunes was trying to carry water for the White House, or he simply failed to understand the responsibilities of a committee investigation, doesn’t really matter.

What’s crucial is that Congress provide an honest, credible examination into the Russian connection. Nunes’ bad instincts undermine public confidence that his panel can conduct such an inquiry.

NYTimes editorial board: Rep. Nunes Is a Lapdog in a Watchdog Role

Mr. Nunes, who served on Mr. Trump’s transition team, was never a suitable choice to lead a congressional investigation into the role the Russian government played in last year’s election. He is clearly more interested in having his committee examine the manner in which American intelligence agencies collected information about the Trump campaign than in determining what that information shows.
...
By speaking expansively about intelligence gathering, Mr. Nunes may have broken the law by disclosing classified information, however obliquely. The congressman, who has assailed leaks to the press, said his information came from unnamed “sources who thought that we should know it.” That’s rich.

WaPo Editorial Board: Nunes’s grandstanding proves he can’t lead the Russia investigation

We’ve said before that it was doubtful that an investigation headed by Mr. Nunes into Russia’s interference in the election could be adequate or credible. The chairman’s contradictory and clownish grandstanding makes that a certainty. His committee’s investigation should be halted immediately — and Mr. Nunes deserves to be subject to the same leaking probe he demanded for the previous disclosures.

posted by homunculus at 8:05 PM on March 24, 2017 [64 favorites]

Is this some kind of attempt to avoid being sued into oblivion?

Almost certainly. While it's very hard to win a defamation suit in the US, the pizza parlor folks are not public figures (or at least weren't before all this, changing which is itself a tort). If Jones can be positively identified as the source of the story on the Internet, he stands a good chance of going down in civil court over it.
posted by Bringer Tom at 8:07 PM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

Is this some kind of attempt to avoid being sued into oblivion?

It looks like something the Comet Ping Pong lawyers forced him to do. What a beta
posted by theodolite at 8:08 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Cake printers are totally a thing, apparently. And now I want a cake printer.

Oh dang, I was picturing some amalgam of a 3-D printer and Easy Bake Oven and having a wonderful daydream about printable-cake downloads.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

Infowars put up a video of Alex Jones reading his statement backing away from Pizzagate.

The reaction vids are already sharpening their knives. I look forward to Jones dying the death of a thousand online cuts in the form of red arrows and random circles.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I saw some commentary predicting that the next thing to happen in the Administration's world is not going to be another big show like the last months have been, but arrests. We'll see what happens with Jones.
posted by rhizome at 8:11 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Well, there totally is a 3D Pancake Printer, but I'm not sure how you'd write political messages with it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:12 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

The undercover tech workers who won't rest until Breitbart shuts down: Sleeping Giants

They ask people to take a screenshot of ads they see on Breitbart, then tweet to the company to politely inform them, tagging Sleeping Giants so they can keep track of the campaign’s progress. Using this template, Sleeping Giants and their thousands of “helpful” followers have got over 1500 companies to block Breitbart from their ad buy. . . . The entire concept relies heavily on the participation of their followers to call brands out, a type of clicktivism with material results. The sense of collaboration that has characterised the movement so far is unprecedented as far as the founders are concerned.

Sleeping Giants has been mentioned in previous threads, but I'm mentioning them again because this, THIS is something people OUTSIDE of the United States can do. (In fact there are Sleeping Giants affiliates in several countries, not just the US.) It's easy and costs nothing but, like, 5 minutes, if you can spare that.

Even if you don't want to take a screenshot of a company's ad on Breitbart and tweet it to that company and @slpng_giants... you can still email or call or Facebook message a Thank You to companies that have pulled their ads. Even if you don't have Twitter, you can look at that Sleeping Giants list and send Thank You's. Even if you don't have Twitter, you can look at the Sleeping Giants current tweets and observe which companies are being notified that their ads are on Breitbart, and contact them to say, "Hey, I see your ads are on Breitbart. You don't want your brand associated with inflammatory, spittle-flecked misogyny and racism and harassment, do you?" or, you know, whatever words float your boat.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 8:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [81 favorites]

“I’ve been in this job eight years, and I’m wracking my brain to think of one thing our party has done that’s been something positive, that’s been something other than stopping something else from happening,” Representative Tom Rooney of Florida said in an interview.

In one of the threads, many threads ago, I asked the same question except allowing the last half century. Nobody could come up with one positive thing except Nixon on the EPA, but that was actually written and brought about through Democratic pressure. The best someone could come up with was the interstate highway system under Eisenhower almost 70 years ago. That's pretty sad, as Trump would say.

The Republican Party is a worthless party. They serve no useful purpose in American society except as an obstacle to nice things.
posted by JackFlash at 8:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [81 favorites]

RE Trump's buckets, I guarandamntee you that he didn't read the bill.

He did what a lot of lazy students do: they skim a few pages and pick out something they can comment on to make it seem like they've read the assigned passage. Then they can "engage" on the material, just so long as you don't press them too much.

I've seen it so many times as a professor that this particular kind of laziness has its own flavor of bullshit associated with it. Buckets, indeed.
posted by darkstar at 8:21 PM on March 24, 2017 [34 favorites]

I've been assuming sotonohito was going to literally print out his comment, like with a laser printer, and bake the resulting piece of paper into a cake.

Ethernet inventor Bob Metcalfe once ate his words - on paper pulped in a blender - after incorrectly predicting the Internet would collapse.
posted by adamg at 8:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

To be clear, I was not expecting you to own a cake printer. I spent all day under the misconception, caused by my failure to read more carefully, that you were planning to eat actual paper, combined with cake. I am very relieved that you are not doing so.

Anyhoo, I think this Flynn story (repeat link, if you missed it during AHCA chaos) has legs. He's sitting around not long before the election talking about how to kidnap a guy on behalf of the foreign government he's getting paid by.

In one of the threads, many threads ago, I asked the same question except allowing the last half century. Nobody could come up with one positive thing except Nixon on the EPA, but that was actually written and brought about through Democratic pressure.

I will be fair and say PEPFAR and Medicare Part D basically fall into that category. The history of Part D makes an interesting case study with a lot of parallels to Obamacare, and one crucial contrast (what the opposing party did after).
posted by zachlipton at 8:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I've been in these damn threads for a year now

Where do I get a piece of the cake
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

Sooooo, that's interesting?
posted by dry white toast

How did I miss this? Very interesting. Nunes is in way over his head. They all are.
posted by futz at 8:26 PM on March 24, 2017

A very thoughtful and insightful article by David Rothkopf entitled, The Soul-Sucking, Attention-Eating Black Hole of the Trump Presidency,* on the foreign policy implications for America, and the rest of the world, of Trump's "ur-narcissism":

"His view of the universe does not extend a single inch beyond the boundaries of his own interests. That is why normative concepts like truth or commonly held values or the national interest are completely alien to him. There is Trump world, and then there is oblivion". [emphasis mine].

"In short, Trump is very likely a short-timer whose moment on our national stage — even if it lasts four years — will not have warranted the degree to which it has shifted our attention from the important long-term issues that do not go away simply because we stop paying attention to them or, as in the case of climate change or Russian wrongdoing, our president continues to pretend they don’t exist."

*Free registration required
posted by vac2003 at 8:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

darkstar, it's worse than that. As far as I know the word "bucket" doesn't appear in the actual text* of the bill, only in Ryan's explanation of the overall plan.

*based on original bill released on 3/6
posted by birdheist at 8:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Ah - thanks for the clarification birdheist.

Dang, now I want cake.
posted by darkstar at 8:30 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Neal Gabler: Has the Trump Budget Blown Republicans’ Cover?

The whole thing is so good it's hard to pick a quote, but

Journalists ask Republicans about policies, mechanisms and money, but those are technical questions when the real and simple question they should be asking is a moral one: Why do Republicans seem intent on hurting the most vulnerable among us?

Unfortunately, the answer may just be, to paraphrase Clint Eastwood’s Dirty Harry on why serial killers murder: because they like it.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [50 favorites]

I saw some commentary predicting that the next thing to happen in the Administration's world is not going to be another big show like the last months have been, but arrests

Please links! I love spoilers and I so hope the (last?) season of the U.S. is going for the prison plot line but I've been burned before and am scared to hope.

Yes, but are the Administration going to be the ones arrested or -- gulp -- the ones doing the arresting?

/Debbie Downer
posted by dhens at 8:32 PM on March 24, 2017

By the way, at least for me, foreignpolicy.c-m has these big shouty warnings that you will never be able to see another one of their pages if you click through without paying but that has never been true for me. I have been able to view every article w/o signing up.
posted by futz at 8:32 PM on March 24, 2017

I ask you in advance to excuse my awful icing writing skills.

Should you find yourself in another delicious predicament like this, may I suggest just buying the candy letters? You might need two or three sets, in which case you will have many extra letters to eat. Or, I guess, for your family to devour.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:34 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

The cake is ~~a lie~~ fake news.

"In short, Trump is very likely a short-timer whose moment on our national stage — even if it lasts four years — will not have warranted the degree to which it has shifted our attention from the important long-term issues that do not go away
Trump's self-centeredness and incompetence may turn out to be a blessing in disguise, resulting in significantly less damage than could have happened at the hands of a more competent politician with a similarly awful agenda.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:35 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Is there no balm in Gilead?

Because, you know, you're going to need one after getting burned by Congress like that.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

I drove through the parking lot of our local Chick-Fil-A one day last week and saw a Ted Cruz bumper sticker on an Escalade.

Little voice inside my head said "Don't look back; you can never look back."
posted by Freon at 8:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [122 favorites]

California Upholds Auto Emissions Standards, Setting Up Face-Off With Trump

This is yet another reason it is critical that Democrats filibuster Gorsuch. This is destined to end up in the Supreme Court. Gorsuch's record indicates that he is a corporate stooge. The planet is at stake.
posted by JackFlash at 8:51 PM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

"Donald Trump's America is pretty rough, but (nuclear war notwithstanding) I get more freaked out when I contemplate Ted Cruz's America."

I've said since the primaries, Donald Trump is terrifying because he could blow up the world at any moment with the nukes and he'd do terrible standing to our international standing and our relationships with allies, but he was far too incompetent to achieve anything domestically where you have to make deals and do politics, not just drop bombs on people.

Ted Cruz, otoh, would follow the same general post-war order as all presidents have, but that mf'er is a high prince of the dark arts of legislative process and legal tricks. The international order would be fine but Ted Cruz would have fucked us domestically so hard.

I have never believed the hype about Paul Ryan. He is a silly person's idea of a serious person. You actually look at any of his policies or budgets, and there's no there there.

You know what bothers me most about Paul Ryan? He was running for fucking Vice President alongside a guy who was richer than God and he looked like a teenager in his dad's blazer. BUY A SUIT THAT FITS OR HIRE A TAILOR YOU STUPID ASSHOLE. THE GROWN-UPS ARE TRYING TO TALK. The situation has not improved. Is there literally no one on his staff who can tell Paul Ryan how wide his shoulders are not, or point out to him that the neck on all his suits gaps? Ambulance-chasing attorneys get better fits at Men's Wearhouse.

Trump is aggressively slovenly in his dress, but that bugs me less because he's obviously Queens pretending to be Manhattan. Paul Ryan wants us to think he's a serious politician with serious ideas AND HE CAN'T MANAGE TO BUY A SUIT. Of COURSE he can't whip his caucus. He couldn't whip cream.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:53 PM on March 24, 2017 [90 favorites]

Matt Taibbi: Trump the Destroyer
posted by rhizome at 8:58 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

(In an illustration of "familiarity breeds contempt," I loathe Trump and hate Cruz, but my blinding, searing rage is reserved for fuckheads from neighboring Midwestern states like Steve King and Scotty Walker and Paul Ryan and Mike Pence. They piss me off SO MUCH MORE, I guess because they've been pissing me off for years since they were tiny little fuckhead tadpoles in the great big political pond. There are probably plenty of politicians who can't buy a suit but Paul Ryan is the only one I'm really pissed off about.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:59 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

I have never believed the hype about Paul Ryan. He is a silly person's idea of a serious person

He's like a "medium" in a frat boy: not so crazy as to flunk out, but also able to hold his liquor so he doesn't die in the car trunk.
posted by rhizome at 9:00 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

sotonohito, you rock, as does your son.

Thanks for not promising to eat a hat or a shoe.
posted by wallabear at 9:04 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

AND HE CAN'T MANAGE TO BUY A SUIT

I hate an ill-fitting suit like fire but isn't there a theory that men do this kind of thing on purpose as a masculinity power move? to contrast themselves with the Clintons and Pelosis of the world who not only have serious policy proposals that they understand and can explain, but groom themselves to within an inch of their lives and tailor everything to the millimeter, because perfection is required of them, but Paul Ryan gets to be Speaker while looking like that because he can, and he wants to show off that he can -- he doesn't have to please the eye any more than he has to please the ear or the brain.

his suit-wearing is like the sartorial equivalent of the devil's interval. the discomfort you feel looking at it is the intent behind it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Yet another long-form "what happened?" article, this excellent one focused a bit more on the Congressional side. Politico: Inside the GOP’s Health Care Debacle: Eighteen days that shook the Republican Party—and humbled a president. It starts by explaining that Trump dismissed the Freedom Caucus' policy questions with "Forget about the little shit. Let's focus on the big picture here" and talked about the political ramification of the bill's defeat, instead of, you know, health care policy.

The article asserts that Trump really hurt the bill's chances when he singled out Meadows, who already needed to not look like a stooge for Trump, and threatened to "come after" him if he didn't support the bill. That put Meadows in an impossible situation where he'd look weak if he said "yes."

This is the quote everyone's passing around:

Pence tried to pump up the conservatives, telling them the fight was theirs to win and that they needed to help Trump and Ryan score a victory for the new administration. The plea landed on deaf ears. "Take one for the team" was a phrase repeatedly deployed; at one point, after Bannon used it, Joe Barton, a white-haired conservative from Texas, snapped back in response that Bannon was talking to them like children and he didn't appreciate it. The room filled with uncomfortable silence; Bannon backed down and the meeting went on.

And:

The atmosphere was friendly, and the president had the group laughing with irrelevant riffs and stories of negotiations past, but it became clear, as soon as he made the "little shit" comment, that no serious changes were going to be made, because the president didn't have sufficient command of the policy details to negotiate what would or would not be realistic for Ryan to shepherd through the House.

The article also blames Ryan for being a horrible salesman who completely botched the rollout of the bill, having no media strategy, and not lining up outside groups to support it.

One interesting thing to me, based on everything I've read, is that Trump spent all his time schmoozing the Freedom Caucus (not really negotiating with them, since he doesn't know anything), but made almost no effort to court votes from anyone else. When you look at who actually opposed the bill, they were bleeding out the other side of the party too, with reps who couldn't face going back to their districts after cutting hundreds of thousands of their constituents off their healthcare. The sense I'm getting is that Trump viewed his purpose as "convince the Freedom Caucus to get on board" and thought that making lots of phone calls to laugh with them was hard work, but had no strategy beyond that. And then, having failed to win over moderate Republicans, he still blames Democrats, who he didn't talk to at all.
posted by zachlipton at 9:10 PM on March 24, 2017 [76 favorites]

I’m wracking my brain to think of one thing our party has done...that’s been something other than stopping something else from happening

welp. y'all buy the *fuck* out of some freedom bombs and drop 'em on brown people. there's that.

(D's help a little, so, bad kharma all around)
posted by j_curiouser at 9:16 PM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

I mean basically every professional man in DC is richer than I am by A LOT and nine tenths of them are walking Men's Wearhouse display cases, not just poor old glum old Paul Ryan. this doesn't happen by accident. a man has a choice in life to look like a box or something other than a box, and the second option is an unholy temptation that very few succumb to. somewhere on capitol hill there is an intern orientation program for boys only that explains to them: if you have a waist that goes in, you must have a shirt that goes out. out, out, to billow in the wind, a shirt so wide you can hide a thousand subpoenas in it. pants with pleats deep enough to shelter all your secrets. sleeves long enough to hide whatever terrible knuckle shame you have.

women in DC dress terribly too of course and I do my part in that but the men's suits are their own world of wonder.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:17 PM on March 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

"Paul Ryan gets to be Speaker while looking like that because he can, and he wants to show off that he can -- he doesn't have to please the eye any more than he has to please the ear or the brain. "

Obama and Biden and Romney and even John Boehner were all men who looked sharp in a suit and knew how to pay a tailor. Paul Ryan is not strategic, he is not a wonk, he does not play 11-dimensional chess, and there was no theory behind his ill-fitting but wildly expensive suits. DUDE JUST DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO BUY A SUIT.

(It's really telling that he buys them too big, it's such an "insecure little boy with his first big-boy job" move, insisting he's a 42L when he's clearly a 39R. Buying shirts in a 16 1/2 neck because he works out, bro! When in reality he's got a 14" neck that suddenly looks like a chicken neck when your shirt is two fuckin sizes too big because you're an idiot. He's one of those guys who claims to be "a little over six feet" when he's really 5' 10.5", which he rounds up to 5'11", which he then rounds up to six feet, because it really matters to him that he be thought tall.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:22 PM on March 24, 2017 [66 favorites]

there was no theory behind his ill-fitting but wildly expensive suits.

don't tell me he doesn't get that terrible haircut just to make me mad, though. it feels personal.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:27 PM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

I've said this before, but Trump is the living embodiment of the bike-shed effect.

He spent endless hours on minute details of his inauguration & the parties afterwards. He's gone through multiple plans for his personal & family cemetery plots. It's absolutely a big part of who he is.
posted by scalefree at 9:28 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

I am not getting any "MSM" hits for Andrea Mitchell's story. Is anyone else?

Most are likely leery of publishing anything based on a single source. Maddow's bucking the trend though.
posted by scalefree at 9:29 PM on March 24, 2017

Worth remembering that Ryan's Wisconsin district is only PVI R+3, while the DNC/DCCC sabotaged and refused to fund his challengers in the last 4 election cycles. He should be vulnerable in a 2018 wave scenario, if Democrats actually backed a candidate against him.

[I swear I searched for the headline thing, does the search box not do well with urls stripped of social medial tracking referrals? I dunno.]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:29 PM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

you must have a shirt that goes out. out, out, to billow in the wind, a shirt so wide you can hide a thousand subpoenas in it.

Don't forget Fawn Hall, who in the act of shredding one and half feet of documents related to the Iran/Contra scandal, when the shredder jammed, shoved documents into her boots and down her back. Under oath, her excuse was that "sometimes you have to go above the law."

Practical clothes are a must for Republicans.
posted by JackFlash at 9:31 PM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

McKay Coppins on the GOP's larger problems. Basically, they spent 8 years rejecting every single thing Obama did, rather than the usual horse trading, making deals where they could, etc. Now, they have no idea how to govern.

“In many ways, the strategy paid off: Republicans took back Congress, slowed the progress of an agenda they genuinely opposed, and ultimately seized control of the White House. But it also came at a cost for the GOP—their lawmakers forgot how to make laws. Indeed, without any real expectation of their bills actually being enacted, the legislative process mutated into a platform for point-scoring, attention-getting, and brand-building.”

posted by Chrysostom at 9:33 PM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

"I think a lot of the blame for this mess falls on the fact that this was rolled out too quickly but also that the Freedom Caucus, these 29 or so conservative members of the House - they basically only know how to exist as creatures of opposition." -- Jonah Goldberg of National Review on NPR this morning.

Have the Republicans had a positive model of government since the Southern Strategy?
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

Republicans have been secretly schismed for the last 16 years without realizing it. They managed to run a halfhearted coalition between the hard right and GWB's "compassionate conservatism" during 2000-2004 because of 9/11, then got to run on divided government from 2004-2008, then got to run a simple "Coalition of No" for the entire Obama presidency.

But the Coalition of No can't govern when it has nothing to No against. They tried to with Obamacare, but failed. Why? Because Obamacare is already the most right-wing healthcare bill possible that still makes some attempt at universal coverage. Anything more to the right simply cannot even offer universal coverage because it collapses under the myth of the free market, so they lost the moderate Republicans trying to move right. And anything to the left of the ACA is clearly Socialism, so they lost the hard-right Freedom Caucus.

Think about this for a minute - the AHCA was both too far to the left and too far to the right for Republicans to pass it. They are divided beyond the point of being able to govern.

How is this going to land for tax reform? The current tax code is, at large scale, regressive. Federal income tax is nominally progressive but capital gains taxes bend the curve back toward regressiveness at the high end. Any tax bill is going to have at least one of the three properties:

a) increases the deficit, scaring off the deficit hawk wing
b) makes rich people pay more, scaring off the corporate shills
c) makes poor people pay more, scaring off the remaining moderates and losing the midterms

We can discount from the get-go any tax reform that makes the tax code more progressive, because that could potentially get some Democrats on board, which would be a key indicator that it's actually Socialism.

The prospect of tax reform not getting through is unremarkable, but when it comes to the debt ceiling? We should be terrified. The best case is that Ryan ditches the Hastert rule and a clean debt ceiling bill passes the House and Senate on the strength of Democrat votes. The worst case is that Donald decides that he's going to go through with his "renegotiate the debt" strategy and crashes the economy.
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:43 PM on March 24, 2017 [45 favorites]

But the Coalition of No can't govern when it has nothing to No against. They tried to with Obamacare, but failed. Why? Because Obamacare is already the most right-wing healthcare bill possible that still makes some attempt at universal coverage. Anything more to the right simply cannot even offer universal coverage because it collapses under the myth of the free market, so they lost the moderate Republicans trying to move right. And anything to the left of the ACA is clearly Socialism, so they lost the hard-right Freedom Caucus.

There's room for a wholesale reallignment of American politics, with "moderate" Republicans seeing the light and agreeing to maybe, like 15/100 times or less, working with Democrats in good faith to pass bills for the greater good. It wouldn't be that hard.

But they won't. And they've burned every last shred of goodwill to the point that Democrats cannot possibly trust them even in the unlikely scenario that they made a good faith offer.

I'd prefer we get out of this hell with the death of the Republican party nationally as happened in California and Hawaii. But if there's going to be any good faith reconciliation, they have to be the ones to come back from the brink and back to rationality. Democrats should be done. Fuck knows we've had our own Democrats begging them to step back from the ledge rather than deservedly push them off, and they'll be welcomed home by the media as heroes just for the smallest act of halfhearted outreach. That may happen one day, but they can probably bring down the world economy and/or start a nuclear war on the way, and it's still pretty much a coin flip.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I DO remember people complaining that Reagan's collars were too big for him, fwiw.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

My heart swells every time I think about how furious Trump is going to be this weekend as he watches his TV shows and everywhere he turns he is being mocked and called a colossal failure. Once again his tiny hands will beat at the air futilely!

It's almost Saturday morning. The Bitching Hour!
posted by Justinian at 9:56 PM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]

McKay Coppins on the GOP's larger problems.

That should be Mmmmkay...
posted by futz at 9:57 PM on March 24, 2017

That theory was never advanced before Bannon's rag made it up

no, I think Angela Carter made it up in the '70s, and some French feminist theorist well before that, probably as half a joke both times. There is looking bad on purpose for fashion, and then there is looking bad on purpose out of spite. the second one is aeons old I imagine but I just personally for my own theorizing date it back to the dawn of the baggy pleated trouser, which was certainly well before Andrew Breitbart was ever born.

trying to display power by looking good is always a risk, because it is ultimately always the people looking at you who decide whether you've succeeded or failed. you give yourself over for judging. but trying to display power by looking like a box from the box factory with sad eyebrows is a gesture of contempt for those who must look at you. it says: I don't have to please you because I control you.

I am sure eyebrows mcgee is right that Paul Ryan is not doing anything stylistically sophisticated on purpose, he's just a big dumb idiot who wants to look like a bigger dumb idiot. but the theory's a thing and bannon's got nothing to do with it. it's no compliment to those it theoretically applies to.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:09 PM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

From the comments on the Mckay Coppins article in the Atlantic:

The Democrats should offer Trump a single payer alternative quickly. He would probably sign it just so he could get credit for winning.

I hope someone is working this angle, because it would be a truly brilliant move with a non-zero chance of succeeding. This should come up after every debacle: a Democratic/moderate Republican coalition with a bill ready to go and sign, and every bill's name should start "Winner!" Trump would sign them and invite the press himself.
posted by fatbird at 10:14 PM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

Is it April fool's yet or just FOOLS?

Mnuchin: Trump has 'perfect genes,' has given up KFC

I have searched mefi and the web and this has to be a joke right? Right?

I feel like a crazy person. Here we go:

On AI supplanting human jobs: "it's not even on our radar screen.... 50-100 more years" away. "I'm not worried at all" about robots displacing humans in the near future, he said, adding: "In fact I'm optimistic."

Other big ticket items:

Trump:

Trump's stamina: "He's got perfect genes. He has incredible energy and he's unbelievably healthy."

Trump's diet: Mnuchin claimed Trump no longer eats KFC or McDonald's, as the White House food is "great."

The dollar bill: "I think we should look at putting President Trump on the thousand dollar bill."

Trump's views evolving: "He's the negotiator-in-chief... he wants big deals."

Trump's leadership style: "He has an open door. People are coming and going, and he thinks about something and calls somebody on the phone... this is not a formal, scheduled president."

Tax reform:

"Much simpler" than health care reform, saying the Trump administration will do it comprehensively. Not going to break it up into more passable pieces.

Corporate tax rate: Mnuchin declined to reiterate Trump's goal of a 15% corporate tax rate, vs. Ryan's 20% plan.

Carried interest loophole: Mnuchin said the loophole will be closed in our tax plan. But that's for hedge funds. No commitment on real estate, etc.

Border adjustment tax: It has certain aspects that are VAT-like, which much of the rest of the world uses.
The focus of tax cuts: Mnuchin said the Trump administration's focus is on tax cuts for the middle class, not upper.

The global economy:

Renegotiating trade deals: "So long as we can renegotiate [trade] deals that are good for us, we won't be protectionist. Otherwise we will."

The one bad thing: We don't know how to predict the next bad thing.
Trump's big objective: Keep people safe, per Mnuchin.

Does Mnuchin worry about who is calling Trump? "No. Do you?"

On Silicon Valley, tech and jobs:

Valuations: "I don't understand these valuations."

Infrastructure:

Infrastructure finance: "It's clear he wants to do something very significant," Mnuchin said, referenced Trump's wish list. He added it wouldn't be deficit-financed.

The big problem: Regulations, not the money.

Mnuchin: Trump has 'perfect genes,' has given up KFC

This guy is insane and unbelievably stupid. I can't stop shaking my head. Like I said I searched mefi and came up with zilch so please delete if I am as dumb as mnuchin. Highly likely. :)
posted by futz at 10:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

I feel something I haven't felt for such a long time.

It's hard to describe.

It's not...dread, or sadness, or overwhelming crushing anger.

Could this be....

OPTIMISM?

It's the audacity of hope!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:46 PM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

Less dread?
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:49 PM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

It's the audacity of less dread!
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:52 PM on March 24, 2017 [122 favorites]

I'd be up for putting Trump on a thousand-dollar bill. What size press would we need?
posted by uosuaq at 10:55 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Jeez, what's with the Grover Cleveland hatred?
posted by Chrysostom at 11:02 PM on March 24, 2017

I'd be up for putting Trump on a thousand-dollar bill. What size press would we need? Gotta be a big one. A bill that makes your hands look tiny in comparison.
posted by solarion at 11:24 PM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I hate an ill-fitting suit like fire but isn't there a theory that men do this kind of thing on purpose as a masculinity power move?

Hey, I despise suits in general and I have a particularly deep and utter contempt for ties, but if I have to wear a suit I at least want it to fit right. Otherwise I'd just look incompetent.

Ties are stupid.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:30 PM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Ties are adorable scarves! This is what Trump doesn't understand. You'd never scotch-tape your scarf. (This is not the only thing Trump does not understand.)
posted by kerf at 11:38 PM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

daddy never used no tie tack
posted by rhizome at 11:39 PM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

I hope someone is working this angle, because it would be a truly brilliant move with a non-zero chance of succeeding. This should come up after every debacle: a Democratic/moderate Republican coalition with a bill ready to go and sign, and every bill's name should start "Winner!" Trump would sign them and invite the press himself.

"The President Trump and American Patriotic Alliance $SUBJECT Bill"
posted by jaduncan at 12:00 AM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

So enjoy people. I sure am, both the cake and the win!

YOU MAGNIFICENT MACHIAVELLIAN BASTARD.
posted by supercrayon at 12:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

On AI supplanting human jobs: "it's not even on our radar screen.... 50-100 more years" away. "I'm not worried at all" about robots displacing humans in the near future, he said, adding: "In fact I'm optimistic."

This has been infuriating me all day. Robots already displace humans. It's not, like, the end of work anytime soon, but there will continue to be significant change as huge industries transform (I'm looking at you, trucking, and having the President toot a horn isn't going to stop it). And we don't even have a cabinet secretary with the intellectual curiosity to think about what's going to happen and be thinking about how to manage these transitions.
posted by zachlipton at 12:16 AM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

My pet theory is that Flynn is (one of) the guy(s) that got nailed by the collateral intelligence collection and he is singing like a canary to Comey on the Russia connections in exchange for not getting busted on the Turkey business. A guy can dream, right? He does seem to have disappeared since he got canned...
posted by Justinian at 12:31 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

A Jewish immigrant to America, originally named Zivotovsky. (Nicknamed 'Stumpy.') And Warren's mother was a Mormon – that sounds like an interesting family to grow up in.

His song Mama Couldn't Be Persuaded is a good one, and fairly autobiographical:

Gambler ambled down a country lane, looking for a game of chance
She was twenty-one or two and she knew what she wanted
And she wanted that gamblin' man

Her parents warned her, tried to reason with her
She was determined that she wanted Bill
They'd all be offended at the mention still
If they heard this song, which I doubt they will

And my mama couldn't be persuaded
When they pleaded with their daughter don't marry that gamblin' man

Gambler tried to be a family man though it didn't suit his style
He thought he had him a winning combination
So he took us where the stakes were high
Her parents warned her, tried to reason with her
Never kept their disappointment hid
They all went to pieces when the bad luck hit
Stuck in the middle, I was the kid
posted by Meatbomb at 1:03 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

So, Michael Flynn is going to jail, right
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump would pardon Flynn in a microsecond.
posted by Yowser at 1:36 AM on March 25, 2017

I just can't get over this "we learned a lot" nonsense that Drumpf keeps doing.

Reminds me of the final scene of Burn After Reading.

CIA Superior: What did we learn, Palmer?
CIA Officer: I don't know, sir.
CIA Superior: I don't fuckin' know either. I guess we learned not to do it again.
CIA Officer: Yes, sir.
CIA Superior: I'm fucked if I know what we did.
CIA Officer: Yes, sir, it's, uh, hard to say
CIA Superior: Jesus Fucking Christ.
posted by Meatbomb at 1:45 AM on March 25, 2017 [37 favorites]

Trump is not going to pardon Flynn. Flynn is going to be a fall guy. Flynn and Manafort, now that Trump has got them out of the White House all that nasty Russian influence is all gone. Poor Donald misled by people he trusted.
posted by rdr at 1:52 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

The flipside of the naif act and lack of pardon is that there's not much stopping Flynn and Manafort from taking an FBI deal to testify.
posted by jaduncan at 1:57 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

I guess it depends on exactly what Flynn has on everyone else

Worst case scenario for him might be a polonium sandwich

So, spilling his guts and going to rich-people jail might not seem that awful
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:59 AM on March 25, 2017

Sure, if rich-people jail doesn't serve polonium sandwich.
posted by Dr Dracator at 2:14 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't believe Florence ADX really counts as rich-people jail. Manafort and Flynn are also likely to be good intelligence sources, so it would be impressively stupid to allow them to be killed.
posted by jaduncan at 2:26 AM on March 25, 2017

I'm sorry for responding to something I'm way behind on, and not reading the intervening posts, but I have to speak to the ableism of criticizing elderly patients on 22 medications.

I'm 37 and I am on a dozen different meds. I have chronic illnesses, some which are related and some which aren't. My biggest problem is pain, for which I am prescribed 4 different meds. They all do different things and I take them at different times and for different but related types/causes of pain. I also take an antidepressant which started because my pain was causing mental symptoms. I tried stopping it, but my pain levels increased.

It would doubtless be possible for my pain to be treated with one heavy medications like oxy or fentanyl. But instead my doctors prefer treating my symptoms with the minimum level of the safest medications. I also have pills I take to help control side effects of some of my necessary meds.

The alternative is to leave me to suffer. In general medical practitioners don't like to do that. I imagine that goes double for people who are a lot worse off than me. And there are very good reasons to err on the side of overtreating illnesses in the elderly because there is less reason to be concerned about long term side effects, so the moral calculus really comes on the side of making the patient as comfortable as possible.

I'm deeply grateful that doctors exist out there who are willing to prescribe for people in pain, people who suffer. There has always been a school of thought in medicine that patients shouldn't be too comfortable, that some level of pain is a moral good. Even though every study shows how serious the consequences of living in pain are, and that getting relief is beneficial for physical and mental health.

If there is any group who should be free of the puritanical baggage that comes from needing medications, it should be those at the end of life.
posted by threeturtles at 3:07 AM on March 25, 2017 [98 favorites]

A detailed post mortem of what just happened from vox.com: On health reform, Donald Trump followed Republican leaders into a ditch.

It's a long, detailed story that I couldn't stop reading. American politics are so complicated, with so many moving parts! It seems like a system designed to change as slowly as possible. Ryan and Trump tried to speed things up, then lost control and crashed.
posted by Kevin Street at 4:16 AM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

It seems like a system designed to change as slowly as possible.

This is quite correct, and very much on purpose.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:59 AM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

no, I think Angela Carter made it up in the '70s, and some French feminist theorist well before that, probably as half a joke both times. There is looking bad on purpose for fashion, and then there is looking bad on purpose out of spite. the second one is aeons old I imagine but I just personally for my own theorizing date it back to the dawn of the baggy pleated trouser, which was certainly well before Andrew Breitbart was ever born.

Actually, Orwell made a similar observation in one of his minor essays - he was talking about Hitler and the goose step. He said that it was ridiculous and Hitler was ridiculous, but the whole point to it was to say "I look like a clown, but if you laugh I'll have you killed".

Months and months ago - it seems like a lifetime! I have crossed oceans of time since the election! (In a time boat, of course) - I said to metafilter, I said, "It would be more efficient for the right just to govern with total authoritarian brutality, smash the opposition, shut down demonstrations, etc; I wonder why they don't do that". At this point, I am realizing that authoritarian brutality is more difficult than it sounds and requires you to be a total patronizing dick to your subordinates, a la Bannon, and people don't always go for that.

Pence tried to pump up the conservatives, telling them the fight was theirs to win and that they needed to help Trump and Ryan score a victory for the new administration. The plea landed on deaf ears. "Take one for the team" was a phrase repeatedly deployed; at one point, after Bannon used it, Joe Barton, a white-haired conservative from Texas, snapped back in response that Bannon was talking to them like children and he didn't appreciate it. The room filled with uncomfortable silence; Bannon backed down and the meeting went on.

See, this gives me some hope. Bannon seems like he's always been in situations where his money and title mean he can assume that everyone else is stupid and inferior and they can't say boo, but that doesn't work as well in politics.

And it's a contrast between capitalism and democracy - even in the corrupt, morally empty world of Republican politics, there's the ghost of democracy and Bannon can't just expect the kind of unremitting compliance he might get in the corporate world. Under capitalism, you can't talk back to the boss, no matter how rude, cruel and incompetent he is; in a democratic system you can.
posted by Frowner at 5:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [56 favorites]

> "I have crossed oceans of time since the election! (In a time boat, of course) ..."

There's no such thing as a time boat! You -- what you do is you get a big clock -- a grandfather clock, you lay it down, you open the door and you paddle it ... like ...
posted by kyrademon at 5:34 AM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

a) increases the deficit, scaring off the deficit hawk wing

They only exist for Democratic Presidents.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:34 AM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's almost Saturday morning. The Bitching Hour!

look it's been a long week
posted by saturday_morning at 5:37 AM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

> "Under capitalism, you can't talk back to the boss, no matter how rude, cruel and incompetent he is; in a democratic system you can."

Now matter how much it seems otherwise, no matter how much they might wish to deny it, no matter how much they try to make it not be true, no matter how much the theory simply fails when put into practice, as long as it truly is a democratic system, THEY work for US.
posted by kyrademon at 5:40 AM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

"Take one for the team" was a phrase repeatedly deployed; at one point, after Bannon used it, Joe Barton, a white-haired conservative from Texas, snapped back in response that Bannon was talking to them like children and he didn't appreciate it. The room filled with uncomfortable silence; Bannon backed down and the meeting went on.

Barton continued, "Only oil companies get to talk to me like that. Now hush up so we can get this over with, I've got a meeting with the CEO of BP in an hour and Daddy gets very upset if I make him wait."
posted by indubitable at 5:43 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

And we don't even have a cabinet secretary with the intellectual curiosity to think about what's going to happen and be thinking about how to manage these transitions.

That's the least of my worries in some ways. It's becoming harder year after year not to notice the season cycles are breaking down. Climate change represents an existential threat to all human happening right in front of our eyes, and we don't have the kind of thoughtful, intelligent, and compassionate world leaders here or elsewhere to manage that transition to whatever a world without stable seasons looks like. Meanwhile, our new leadership isn't just incompetent on that problem, they seem to be hell bent on accelerating it.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:49 AM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

And it's a contrast between capitalism and democracy - even in the corrupt, morally empty world of Republican politics, there's the ghost of democracy

I think it bears testament to the robust nature of American democratic, constitutional and broader governmental institutions that, despite decades of the GOP moving further and further into a position of outright sabotage, US democracy is continuing to function (albeit in a severely hampered fashion) even with Trump in the White House and Republican majorities in Congress.

There are many things to admire about America, but they are hardly ever the things that those who boast of their patriotism set any value on. They are things almost entirely defined negatively, not by what the US does (given the huge systemic evils that have been allowed to prevail), but by the evils that, despite its immense power and overwhelming domination by its own capitalist class, the US has thus far managed to avoid.

Continuing to avoid those evils is going to be a terrifyingly difficult struggle, with a terrifying possibility of failure, but there is still good reason for hope, and for me to admire all of you who are taking part in that struggle.
posted by howfar at 5:50 AM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

They couldn't figure out how to vilify/disenfranchise sick people and their families, I guess.
posted by fleacircus at 5:58 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Good overview on the congressional workings regarding the failed Republican health care bill
On health reform, Donald Trump followed Republican leaders into a ditch
The allegedly masterful dealmaker ended up in a no-win situation.
posted by robbyrobs at 6:09 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Can we popularize the name Gorsuch the Merciless? And then get a committee member to put up this question -- "You've been called merciless in social media. Tell me, what are your feelings about the value of mercy in the judicial process?"
posted by puddledork at 6:12 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Between the FPP and this song about the downfall of Trumpcare, I'm starting to think we should have more news in ballad form...

“I’d counted on a veto,” said a rep from Tennessee.
“The blame Obama always took would fall on Hillary.
Then Pennsylvania went for Trump, and Michigan the same.
And now we run the government, we can’t just play a game.”
...
Oh Donnie! Clever Donnie! How everyone agreed.
The plan that he campaigned on was just the one they’d need.
It ended it all the mandates! It set the markets free!
And still it covered everyone, from sea to shining sea!

“It offers better treatment,” noted one committee chair.
“And cheaper,” said another, “I know cause I was there.
You should have heard the cheering. I thought the roof would fall.
And Mexico will pay for it! No, wait, that was the wall.”

posted by OnceUponATime at 6:14 AM on March 25, 2017 [43 favorites]

Carried interest loophole: Mnuchin said the loophole will be closed in our tax plan. But that's for hedge funds. No commitment on real estate, etc.

Oh shit giving the middle finger to the hedge fund guys while looking out for yourself? That's a way to piss off a lot of petty people who will seek revenge and who have a lot of cash.
posted by Talez at 6:15 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Well here we are, another day in paradise. Why is everyone here wearing boxy suits?

Paradise is exactly like where you are right now, only much much better.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

Can we popularize the name Gorsuch the Merciless?

Surely we can get someone to YouTube an endorsement by his brother Ming?
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:33 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

I have crossed oceans of time since the election! (In a time boat, of course)

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: President Trump’s broken timeline

President Trump has come unstuck in time.

Years pass, and his hair grows blonder and the women around him grow younger and younger. He is a paradox.

Or maybe he is cursed. Everything he says is true, just not necessarily at the moment he says it.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:36 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

While I am thrilled that healthcare overhaul was such a massive failure, there's a nasty bit of shit sticking to my happiness cupcake-- and that's the image of the turd-in-chief sitting behind the desk in the Oval Office and declaring that Obamacare is going to explode, knowing that he will never lift a finger to help, out of spite. Christ what a President we have.

Tax reform up next. On the one hand it will be a lot more difficult to get mass protests to rally against the bill specifically, on the other hand serious tax reform will affect a lot more powerful groups including large corporations. I don't think P. Ryan has the ability to sell anything to anyone but this time DJT will be more engaged and eager to help.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:40 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Tax reform had been predicated on health care reform. This'll be quite a pickle for them.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:49 AM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Tax reform up next.

Nyet. 24/7 Russia Independent prosecution. Corporate media, do *not* fuck this up for us. We've got a whole Internet with your name on it. Right here
posted by petebest at 6:52 AM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

There's a MAGA march in Philly today. And an anti-MAGA counter protest planned. I'll be attending. I wonder if there will really be much attendance for the former. The latter is looking robust.
posted by lazaruslong at 6:53 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Have the Republicans had a positive model of government since the Southern Strategy?

Sure. Newt Gingrich is a real grade-a doofus, but when he and the Republicans swept into power in 95:

(1) They had a real, positive (in the sense of active) plan for what they wanted to do. A vision for the country. One I didn't like, but you could see how at least parts of it were a vision people could put forward honestly.

(2) They really meant it, to the point that they handed Bill Clinton a line-item veto that they could only expect would be used to obstruct Republican goals in the short term (it was unconstitutional).

(3) They were absolutely willing to cut deals with moderate Democrats and Clinton to get half a loaf.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:00 AM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

Shit. McCain got out. Somebody go find him before he Goes Rogue.

Trump Should Address Russia's Election Interference, McCain Says

Trump Critic McCain Advises Less Tweeting, More Outreach to Democrats

Outreach! To Democrats!*

*said with the sneering tone of, "I think it would be fun to run a newspaper. !!" /monoclepop
posted by petebest at 7:02 AM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

Jonathan Chait: Why Obamacare Defeated Trumpcare

The American Health Care Act is a truly horrendous piece of legislation. But it did not become the vehicle for the Obamacare repeal effort because Trump, or Ryan, or anybody insisted on it over some other option. It became the repeal bill because nobody in the Republican Party had a better idea.

[...]

It is not possible to write a bill that meets public standards for acceptable health-insurance coverage within the parameters of conservative ideology. It is possible — just barely — to write a bill that meets public standards for acceptable health-insurance coverage within the parameters of liberal ideology. The form taken by Obama’s health-care reform will change over the decades to come. But its central triumph, creating a federal right to access to basic medical care, will never be taken away.

posted by tonycpsu at 7:02 AM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

(3) They were absolutely willing to cut deals with moderate Democrats and Clinton to get half a loaf.

Mmmm I remember that more as "Clinton and Teh Demz gave them whatever they wanted to show they could 'work for all Americans'". Cite?
posted by petebest at 7:05 AM on March 25, 2017

They aren't even planning to do individual tax reform yet (I'm sure Spicer would say that's in prong 3 or whatever). They've been saying they can do business tax reform by August, but business groups and pretty much everyone outside of the GOP knows that's ridiculous, and that was before AHCA went up in flames. They have no coalition, their only plan was the Ryan blueprint, which a ton of businesses hated, and people are finally realizing that maybe Ryan is not such a smart guy after all, and it would completely upend state budgets and tax regimes.

Tax reform is not going to pass this year.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:06 AM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

There is a lot of blood in the water now, and there's a whole lot of people who want a piece of these assholes.

I think lots of things are going to start going very, very badly for them.

Like soren_lorensen, I might need a cigarette.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:12 AM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Won't the House be tied up for a couple weeks with infighting about the Speakership? Trump may be willing to move on, but I think Bannon would like to use this opportunity to stir up some shit with Ryan.
posted by klarck at 7:13 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yeah. Let's not forget that when it came to it in the primaries, a lot of the Senate openly hated Trump before very reluctantly bending the knee. I doubt the Presidency thus far has convinced them otherwise.

I dunno. I think a lot of authoritarians in office suddenly saw a lot of silver hair on Trump's back when he won the nomination.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:17 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Shit. McCain got out. Somebody go find him before he Goes Rogue.

That's kind of McCain's schtick, though. He says maverick-y things to maintain his reputation for being a maverick, but when it comes time to take action or do anything that risks his standing with the people to whom he answers, he is as submissive and obedient as everyone else in his party. Lots of Republicans will talk big about wanting to investigate Trump's Russian ties, but they won't lift a finger to make it happen unless the pressure from outside the party gets overwhelming.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:24 AM on March 25, 2017 [32 favorites]

Google tells me that McCain is on the committee for Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. Any reason he can't start is own investigation? (Actually asking; I know nothing about parliamentary procedure I didn't learn from the West Wing.)
posted by schadenfrau at 7:30 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

> One interesting thing to me, based on everything I've read, is that Trump spent all his time schmoozing the Freedom Caucus (not really negotiating with them, since he doesn't know anything), but made almost no effort to court votes from anyone else.

Hey all, remember all those fawning profiles of Cambridge Analytica and their All-Singing All-Dancing Best-of-Breed Micro-Targeting Pattern Matching Supervised Learning Big Data Powerhouse that propelled POTUS45 to victory by telling them to do rallies and spend ad money to appeal to Working Class White People in the Rust Belt while the Clinton campaign foolishly tried to use their dated legacy platform from the Obama era and came up just short? You'd think that if these guys had such a Game-Changing Earth-Shattering Paradigm-Shifting platform, they might have thought about deploying it to find out how to deploy their resources to win an actual policy battle. You mean to tell me they built a machine that can micro-target voters to within fractions of a percent can't use those same powers to find out how to peel off reps who will have to face those same voters in next year's primaries?

If I didn't know any better, I might be inclined to think that the whole thing was nothing but snake oil, much like the AHCA itself.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:31 AM on March 25, 2017 [55 favorites]

Republicans go down in flames, USMNT crushes Honduras 6-0. A wonderful Friday for America!
posted by zakur at 7:32 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

She thought Trump would deport ‘bad hombres.’ Instead, he’s deporting her law-abiding husband.

“I wish I didn’t vote at all,” Helen Berestain said Friday. “I did it for the economy. We needed a change.”

She recalls that Roberto had complained, “He’s going to get rid of the Mexicans.”

But she countered with Trump’s words, that he would deport only the “bad hombres.”

The Beristains, she said, were all for deporting illegal immigrants who were criminals, bringing drugs or abusing the system, “but not to get rid of all the people. This is not what America is, the land of the free.”

Well to be fair, Trump wasn't really given a lot off press during the campaign, and even if his incredibly offensive and racist stump speech had been repeated ad nauseum for more than a year, who knew Nazis would be all Nazi about it.
posted by petebest at 7:34 AM on March 25, 2017 [69 favorites]

I dunno. I think a lot of authoritarians in office suddenly saw a lot of silver hair on Trump's back when he won the nomination.

Sure, but not all Republicans are authoritarian, and certainly not authoritarian when compared to Trump. As much as they might bend, that standard of authoritarianism doesn't include people like Collins, Heller, Graham and the like. The Senate is close, and all that is needed is a few people to think that they don't want to die on the hill of Trump's latest bout of racist paranoia expressed as incoherent policy to mean that it can't happen. This might be important when considering, say, the budget for ICE deportations, or changes in the law related to citizenship rights. Etc, etc.

As an example, it turns out the House Republicans also won't invariably be loyal soldiers for Trump's more idiotic bills. If the Dems stay strong it doesn't actually matter what the majority of Republicans think, because idiocy will be curtailed on the basis that the votes aren't there for the worst fever dreams. That is good and important, because Trump shouldn't be given a blank check.
posted by jaduncan at 7:37 AM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Beristains

Guys, the spelling changed again! I think we really did jump to the wrong part of the multiverse! o_O
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:41 AM on March 25, 2017 [35 favorites]

they might have thought about deploying it to find out how to deploy their resources to win an actual policy battle.

Besides the high probability that they haven't paid, they won so who cares. Bannon or Preibus or Pence will figure it out. Time to bask in that sweet sweet MAGAlove. Then a little golf, ogle the staff, some Nixon Meatloaf (covered-up in secret ketchup), throw a shoe at the Spiceweasel, then it's Tweetin' Time!!
posted by petebest at 7:41 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

I think a lot of authoritarians in office suddenly saw a lot of silver hair on Trump's back when he won the nomination.

Definitely, but that's why failures like AHCA and the blocked Muslim bans are important. They're revealing that most of that silver hair was just painted on the whole time. The more Trump keeps losing, the less the alpha-worshipers will be inclined to put up with him.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:43 AM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

I mean...to be fair, the targeted advertising / persuasion something like Cambridge Analytica claims to do is not meant for small groups of highly connected people with access to lots of specialized information about the topic at hand. It's meant to steer public sentiment on a mass scale, particularly with a public that doesn't have a) a lot of actual information, and b) not a lot of angry constituents calling and expressing the exact opposite sentiment. That's sort of a nonsense comparison.

If you mean why didn't they use all those ratfucking advertising techniques on the public in support of Trumpcare, I don't think they had time, even if they had the capability of selling that kind of shit sandwich. As has been pointed out, selling a specific shit sandwich served to YOU is way harder than selling the vague idea of hypothetical shit sandwiches served to the people you don't like.

Plus also $.

But I wouldn't count out ratfuckery in the future. A lot of people are very dumb, a lot are very ill informed, and a lot get their news and opinion entirely from Facebook. Still plenty of rats to be fucked.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:49 AM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

After A Wild Week, The House Trump-Russia Probe Endures — Barely

Guess which "major" news organization that headline is from. No go ahead, guess. The article itself isn't that bad, which makes this editorial decision that much more frustrating. Or it would be if one were inclined to care about such things. If you guessed npr you win a free soda.

Meanwhile, staff members are negotiating with three key figures in the Trump-Russia imbroglio about coming to testify. Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, former Trump foreign policy adviser Carter Page and self-described "dirty trickster" and longtime Trump ally Roger Stone all have come forward to say they are willing to meet with the House Intelligence Committee.

Closed-door, non-oath-sworn testimony because why pretend.

COLLUSION
posted by petebest at 7:52 AM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

Idk if this will help anyone else, but the way I've dealt with the terrifying prospect of how this government will handle a true crisis is to accept that it will happen. Something bad will happen, and they will fuck up the response beyond even my expectations, and people will suffer and die because of it. And then we'll try to mitigate the damage as best we can.

If we're lucky -- Christ I can't believe I'm saying this -- it will be on the scale of a hurricane, and not a flu pandemic or a nuclear crisis.

If he's still in office by then, that's when he'll be drummed out.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:56 AM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

Yeah I hate to be a buzz kill but

Hey, MeFi case law clearly states in OMG Pussygate v. LOL that we get the weekend to enjoy slightly less dread.

Remember, we have the public shaming ritual dance of the Sunday Morning "News" shows to "look forward to".
posted by petebest at 7:58 AM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

We made bad law
Shadow law
Random law
And abandoned law

Accidentally, like a martyr
posted by petebest at 8:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

No SNL for a few more weeks. April 8.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:18 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Netanyahu's honeymoon with Trump ends abruptly

Netanyahu now finds himself walking a tight-rope between a new president interested in a peace deal and an empowered right-wing determined to sink the two-state solution once and for all. In the face of this political pressure and a corruption investigation, it is increasingly possible that the Israeli leader may soon have to face elections.
posted by petebest at 8:19 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

TPM quoting Politico (but fuck Politico and I'm lazy):

The report described a meeting that Trump had with members of the Freedom Caucus, in which members pelted him with "wonkish concerns" about specific aspects of the Republicans' bill to repeal and replace Obamacare. Trump cut them off, according to the report, wanting to keep it simple.

"Forget about the little shit," Trump said, unnamed sources told Politico."Let's focus on the big picture here."

That reportedly did not sit well with members in attendance.

I mean, holy shit. It's not like the fucking Freedom Caucus is known for their interest in policy, either. Did they really not know what they were getting?

The "loser clown" narrative continues to build, and fuck man, I am enjoying it. its just clownshoes all the way down. It's raining little red noses. I'm imagining this meeting involved at least one bottle of seltzer and someone turning around while holding a ladder.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:27 AM on March 25, 2017 [67 favorites]

Report: Bannon told conservatives 'this is not a debate,' you have to back bill

"Guys, look. This is not a discussion. This is not a debate. You have no choice but to vote for this bill,” Bannon reportedly said.

A Freedom Caucus member reportedly replied: “You know, the last time someone ordered me to something, I was 18 years old. And it was my daddy. And I didn't listen to him, either."

LOL
posted by zakur at 8:32 AM on March 25, 2017 [132 favorites]

@JohnJHarwood
by day 64, Trump has seen travel ban halted, FBI probe his associates, top priority fail in Congress, rating fall to 37%. bleak opening act

@dburbach Retweeted John Harwood
Wrong measures. Mar-a-Lago fee doubled, hotel booming, Ivanka sales up, massive PRC debt forgive for Jared. Wins on what Trump cares abt.
posted by chris24 at 8:32 AM on March 25, 2017 [97 favorites]

I would be willing to bring back the stocks for these people.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:35 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

Trump's Triumph of Incompetence

In which NYT Opinion author Nicholas "Yaay let's invade Iraq!" Kristoff intones,

The Trump administration is increasingly showing itself to be breathtakingly incompetent, and that’s the real lesson of the collapse of the G.O.P. health care bill. The administration proved unable to organize its way out of a paper bag: After seven years of Republicans’ publicly loathing Obamacare, their repeal-replace bill failed after 18 days. . . .

Failure and weakness also build on themselves, and the health care debacle will make it more difficult for Trump to get his way with Congress on other issues. As people recognize that the emperor is wearing no clothes, that perception of weakness will spiral.

I'm shocked - Shocked! To find that gambling is going on in here!
posted by petebest at 8:39 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Wrong measures. Mar-a-Lago fee doubled, hotel booming, Ivanka sales up, massive PRC debt forgive for Jared. Wins on what Trump cares abt.

I'd gladly give him the penny-ante corruption in exchange for continued agenda failure. It would be like when we could have bought Saddam off for $50 million. It would have been morally odious but so worth it when compared to spending trillions, destabalizing a continent, killing hundreds of thousands and threatening the core values of all of Western Civilization.
posted by srboisvert at 8:39 AM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

its just clownshoes all the way down
posted by achrise at 8:40 AM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

My god - it's full of farts . . .
posted by petebest at 8:44 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

All I want is a chrome extension that puts big red noses on all images of Republicans.

Do we have the technology
posted by schadenfrau at 8:46 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

There's a ton of access journalism going on in here, largely in the service of the hope that Trump keeps calling up Costa to chat, so it depicts him as an effective dealmaker, but it still paints a picture of a guy bumbling around, determined to make some kind of a deal, without any regard for the actual polices he's creating. It sounds like he thought he could schmooze his way to a deal by buttering people up and showing them the Oval Office, without doing the months worth of hard work to actually talk policy and build support.

Going by today's coverage of the pulling of the bill in the Washington Post, I think he might want to reconsider that strategy. Of course, that implies Trump is capable of learning, so I imagine he will do it again. Only with more whining and demented claims.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 8:49 AM on March 25, 2017

Hey all, remember all those fawning profiles of Cambridge Analytica and their All-Singing All-Dancing Best-of-Breed Micro-Targeting Pattern Matching Supervised Learning Big Data Powerhouse that propelled POTUS45 to victory by telling them to do rallies and spend ad money to appeal to Working Class White People in the Rust Belt while the Clinton campaign foolishly tried to use their dated legacy platform from the Obama era and came up just short? You'd think that if these guys had such a Game-Changing Earth-Shattering Paradigm-Shifting platform, they might have thought about deploying it to find out how to deploy their resources to win an actual policy battle. You mean to tell me they built a machine that can micro-target voters to within fractions of a percent can't use those same powers to find out how to peel off reps who will have to face those same voters in next year's primaries?

Except now they are the government and they don't just get to hire contractors willy-nilly like a campaign does. Nor do they get to use data willy-nilly like a campaign does.

Also thanks to the Republican's howls of rage over the Lincoln Bedroom scandal Presidents can't throw around campaign style favors as easily anymore.

Not that any of this matters because it presumes that Trump wants to play the game. Instead he got to the very first level puzzle of the Presidentin RPG and quit and threw his controller away and said "Just another day in paradise".
posted by srboisvert at 8:56 AM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Report: Bannon told conservatives 'this is not a debate,' you have to back bill

Wait, I thought Bannon was string-pulling against the bill? I don't know what to believe any more.
posted by Hal Mumkin at 9:06 AM on March 25, 2017

>"Forget about the little shit," Trump said, unnamed sources told Politico."Let's focus on the big picture here."

'Forget about what you want. Let's focus on what I want.'

The Deal-Maker. The Great Negotiator. I imagine he got a reaction something like this.

posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:07 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

> Except now they are the government and they don't just get to hire contractors willy-nilly like a campaign does. Nor do they get to use data willy-nilly like a campaign does.

What's going to stop them? Who can even see the lines between the administration and "the administration" clearly enough to enforce them, even if they had the political will to do so? Ivanka Trump gets a WH office and a TS clearance, but they couldn't finagle a way to get their analytics firm to do some research for them? I don't see it.

But you're right about how it's no big deal to him. As the tweet above about Mar-a-Lago fees and debt forgiveness show, he's getting most of what he really cares about. The rubes don't get their ACA repeal; he continues golfing and rage-tweeting.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:17 AM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

'Forget about what you want. Let's focus on what I want.'

In fairness, I think it's quite possible that he didn't bother researching the policy demands of the Freedom Caucus, and didn't understand his own bill beyond what he vaguely recalled from Fox and Friends discussions and the executive summary.

It was pretty stupid to send a flim-flam man to do a wonk's negotiation job.
posted by jaduncan at 9:18 AM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

"ObamaCare will explode and we will all get together and piece together a great healthcare plan for THE PEOPLE. Do not worry!". Today's Trump tweet is just as unhinged as one would expect, even without a side-order of vitriol; can you imagine any sane politician saying that people shouldn't worry about the "explosion" of healthcare provision? Trump is so utterly incapable of admitting defeat that he'd sooner admit that his policy platforms are meaningless game-playing, and that he doesn't give a damn about the lives that would be lost as a result of the "explosion" of Obamacare. It's even more extraordinary that this is now apparently an unremarkable position for him to espouse.
posted by howfar at 9:18 AM on March 25, 2017 [42 favorites]

> Except now they are the government and they don't just get to hire contractors willy-nilly like a campaign does. Nor do they get to use data willy-nilly like a campaign does.

Trump has an open campaign, of course.
posted by jaduncan at 9:19 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

There was a lot of talk about punishing and primary-challenging Republicans who votes against the bill. So what's the significance of not even holding a vote? Is that the Freedom Caucus defeating the rest of the House Republicans by not exposing themselves? Or is it the House Republicans uniting against the threat of Trump by refusing the chance to be marked out? Or something else entirely?
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:19 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

"Guys, look. This is not a discussion. This is not a debate. You have no choice but to vote for this bill,” Bannon reportedly said.

A Freedom Caucus member reportedly replied: “You know, the last time someone ordered me to something, I was 18 years old. And it was my daddy. And I didn't listen to him, either."

I think somebody might be starting to realize that producing Seinfeld doesn't mean you get to be Hitler.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:20 AM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

A tweet with side by side photos of the democrats and republicans giving press conferences yesterday: "Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan," AHCA edition
posted by peeedro at 9:21 AM on March 25, 2017 [25 favorites]

I think somebody might be starting to realize that producing Seinfeld doesn't mean you get to be Hitler.

Actually you do, but only with soup.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:27 AM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

I think both the WH and Bannon in particular were pushing for a vote because they wanted a loyalty litmus test. They didn't give a shit about the bill, obviously. Ryan decided to pull it because he figured it was the least worst option, pulling the bill didn't let it die on the floor in full view of CSPAN and denied the WH their enemies list.
posted by gofargogo at 9:27 AM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

I've been watching all this go down while being too busy/travelling and so unable to join in the mefigleefest - with cake already. But I've been feeling the joy, oh yes I have.

There are parallels with the UK - here, the wingnuts have got their wish and, as in all good fairy tales, have found that they didn't quite think things through in ways that the granting has made cruelly apparent. I hope that this is the point where a consistent message that thoughtful, aware, evidence-based politics isn't a bad idea, because look at the alternative, can start to get some momentum back.

I mean. Look at them. Just look.
posted by Devonian at 9:30 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: ObamaCare will explode and we will all get together and piece together a great healthcare plan for THE PEOPLE. Do not worry!

This is also the first Android tweet in 17 days. So he still has his phone.
posted by chris24 at 9:33 AM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

What's going to stop them? Who can even see the lines between the administration and "the administration" clearly enough to enforce them, even if they had the political will to do so? Ivanka Trump gets a WH office and a TS clearance, but they couldn't finagle a way to get their analytics firm to do some research for them? I don't see it.

That they can't cut checks is what stops them.

Trump won't be pulling out his own checkbook either.
posted by srboisvert at 9:36 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

The "loser clown" narrative continues to build, and fuck man, I am enjoying it.

I tried to warn everybody he was a clown, but maybe we just had to learn the hard way...
posted by saulgoodman at 9:37 AM on March 25, 2017

Today's Trump tweet is just as unhinged as one would expect, even without a side-order of vitriol; can you imagine any sane politician saying that people shouldn't worry about the "explosion" of healthcare provision? Trump is so utterly incapable of admitting defeat that he'd sooner admit that his policy platforms are meaningless game-playing, and that he doesn't give a damn about the lives that would be lost as a result of the "explosion" of Obamacare. It's even more extraordinary that this is now apparently an unremarkable position for him to espouse.

One Democrat with a spine will hopefully stand up on national TV at some point and say "What the fuck is wrong with you? The people who will be affected by this aren't pawns in some political game. They're people. When you strip essential health benefits from their plans, when you make healthcare more expensive, when you tell us that people will choose to go off health insurance that they need when really they can't afford it. I don't know how you can do it with a straight face little alone looking people in the eye you worthless, small handed, orange shitstain."

That Democrat will hopefully be president in 2020.
posted by Talez at 9:39 AM on March 25, 2017 [47 favorites]

> [...] throw a shoe at the Spiceweasel, then it's Tweetin' Time!!

Oh please let this catch on... If I ever see a "Blasts from the Spiceweasel" segment (Bam!) on some late night show, I'll die a happy man.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 9:41 AM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

> That they can't cut checks is what stops them.

I think Trump's history of stiffing his staff and contractors shows that anyone taking the work would expect to be doing it with the expectation that they won't get paid. But of course if Bannon, Jared, Ivanka, Don Jr., or anyone else in the Trump inner circle did want to pay someone, they could find a way to funnel the payment through the family's vast network of subsidiaries. If they get caught, what's the worst thing that happens? Daddy has to pardon them?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:42 AM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

>What's going to stop them?

>That they can't cut checks is what stops them.

Mercers are billionaires. They can write all the checks they want. The Mercers own Cambridge Analytica. Both Bannon and Conway worked or are still working for the Mercers.
posted by JackFlash at 9:50 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

>> I think a lot of authoritarians in office suddenly saw a lot of silver hair on Trump's back when he won the nomination.
> Definitely, but that's why failures like AHCA and the blocked Muslim bans are important. They're revealing that most of that silver hair was just painted on the whole time.

Not painted on, sprayed on.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 9:55 AM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

"Incompetent" seems to be the word of the day.

"I have never seen an administration as incompetent as the one occupying the White House." - Schumer

Would love to hear more Ds saying this on the air, but the media is obsessed with putting Rs on to give their side of the story for their abject failure.
posted by rouftop at 10:02 AM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

NBC: President Trump is now at Trump National Golf Club in Virginia, per pool; it's his 12th golf course trip since taking office 9 weeks ago

Winning is hard.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:07 AM on March 25, 2017 [30 favorites]

My perspective on ill-fitting suits--I don't care. I don't care what he wears, or she wears, or you wear. Actually, I'd be happier if they wore discount jeans and donated the extra cash to someone who needs it, someone who can't afford a winter coat for their child. I also don't care what he eats, or she eats, or you eat, at least as far as political discourse goes. As far as tiny hands and big ears, I think "born this way" applies. I'd like to see less focus on appearance, and more on words and actions.
posted by a fish out of water at 10:08 AM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

Cambridge Analytica, like everything else in this administration, is a con.
posted by maggiemaggie at 10:11 AM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

Just repeat the mantra:

Obama, golf is play
Trump, golf is work

See? All better now.
posted by valkane at 10:11 AM on March 25, 2017

How Obamacare Became a Preexisting Condition: Wrapping up a wild week in Washington.

What happened to the Republicans this week was different by an order of magnitude. They cored themselves out as a party. They allowed the most extreme element in their caucus to set rules that became untenable and would have been even if Paul Ryan was as good a Speaker as Nancy Pelosi once was. By the middle of the week, the bill was caught in an impossible whipsaw of political imperatives. To get the Freedom Caucus cultists on board, the president* and Speaker Ryan had to make the bill even more cruel and punitive—Work requirements for Medicaid? Men asking why they had to pay for some woman's maternity care?—and, having done so, it scared the daylights over what passes for a moderate faction in the House Republican caucus. The negotiations bounced impotently back and forth for three days, going absolutely nowhere. On Friday, the White House took its ball and went home.
...
To be fair, the president* took the defeat rather better than I thought he would, which is to say he blamed the Democrats, repeated claim that the Affordable Care Act is gasping its last breath, and was so fulsome in his sympathy for Paul Ryan that, were I Ryan, I'd hire a food taster. Somebody's going to pay for this. You can be sure of that. Meanwhile, as Paul Ryan said, Obamacare remains the law of the land. The Rotunda was still packed with tourists when the news came down and you wondered how many people there had somehow been helped by the Affordable Care Act. Maybe it's that elderly gent looking up at the statue of Huey Long, or that kid in the wheelchair paused beneath Norman Borlaug. Obamacare is now a pre-existing condition, and a damned stubborn one at that.

posted by homunculus at 10:41 AM on March 25, 2017 [19 favorites]

> "Hey look, in the mean time, I guess, I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m president, and you’re not. You know. Say hello to everybody OK?" — the TIME interview

The Fuck Was That Trump Interview in Time?

But the other thing that comes through is just how pathetically weird and confused and obsessed our goddamn president is. Look at this line from towards the end of the interview: "I inherited a mess with jobs, despite the statistics, you know, my statistics are even better, but they are not the real statistics because you have millions of people that can’t get a job, ok." What does that even say? Because it sounds like "Numbers aren't numbers unless they're my numbers but my numbers are too good to be true because if they're right that means that the earlier numbers are right so fuck numbers and go with what I think is true."

It's mind-boggling in its utter and complete degradation of language and logic. As Trump has proven time and again, George W. Bush was a goddamned member of the Algonquin Round Table by comparison. And Trump's ego is so fragile that it's like house made of tissue-paper cards. He wants you to know that he is a genius: "I’m a very instinctual person, but my instinct turns out to be right. When everyone said I wasn’t going to win the election, I said well I think I would." Motherfucker, that's not instinct. That's being a candidate for office. Of course, you think you're gonna win. Why brag about that? It's like saying, "Man, no one thought I was going to take a shit today, but, I took a shit. I showed them."

posted by homunculus at 10:51 AM on March 25, 2017 [62 favorites]

This bit from Ezra Klein is good:

On Wednesday, I wrote about the closing argument President Donald Trump was making to skittish Republican legislators. Vote for the bill, he’s been telling them, or you’ll lose your seat.

That night, I received a call from a Democratic senator. He’d read the piece, and it had reminded him of the closing argument President Barack Obama made to skittish Democratic legislators. Vote for the bill, Obama told them, because it’s worth losing your seat.

If that doesn't sum up the entire difference between their approaches right there.
posted by zachlipton at 10:54 AM on March 25, 2017 [213 favorites]

Sarah Binder's take.

(Sarah is one of the top few people on congressional procedure; I've seen a few congress scholars pointing at this and saying "Yup.")
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

Vote for the bill, Obama told them, because it’s worth losing your seat.

Even Republicans are coming to realize the differences between Obama/Pelosi and Trump/Ryan. Tweetstorm from Jay Cost at the Weekly Standard:

---

- Do you guys remember the Stupak Democrat thing in 2010? Bart Stupak and like 10 other Dems were holding the whole Obamacare program up.

- Pelosi didn't set an arbitrary deadline and when they didn't fold, said, "OK THAT IS IT I'M PULLING THE BILL!"

- She worked 'em, and she worked 'em, and she worked 'em ... then she GOT 'em.

- Why did she do that but Ryan & Trump walked away after like 20 days? She wanted it bad enough to risk her majority. Ryan & Trump don't. (my bold)

- That, my friends, is the difference. Repealing Obamacare might be a hill you're willing to die on. But it ain't Trump or Ryan's.

- Pelosi and the congressional Dems were like the Charge of the Light Brigade in 2010.
"All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred."
They knew it was gonna be brutal. But they did it because they thought it their duty.

-But Ryan? C'mon. Guy's heart is in tax reform. As for Trump, reforming the individual insurance market ain't gonna MAGA.
posted by chris24 at 11:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [55 favorites]

Obamacare royalties? How does that even get collected? Does the doctor stuff some cash into an envelope every time a patient comes in and says, "Obama sent me"? Do hospitals have to put out coin boxes for collecting a quarter each time the word "Obamacare" is used? Or is it a straight up signing fee insurance companies pay for every new enrollee? I would love to see an explanation of what these royalties are and how they get collected.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:26 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Obamacare royalties are the tax you pay everytime you order a large pepperoni from Pizzagate.
posted by valkane at 11:28 AM on March 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

The news from MAGAhats on Twitter responding favorably to @realdonaldtrump is astoundingly bonkers.

Same as it ever was. TDS correspondent Jordan Klepper interviewed Trump supporters at the Memphis rally last week.

One man said, “I’m going to be honest, I don’t know that much about Trumpcare.”

He said that he preferred it to Obamacare because Trumpcare literally sounded better. The man added, “As long as it says Trump, you won’t be thinking about how bad it is.”

Watch the whole thing if you can. These people are all kinds of bonkers.
posted by zakur at 11:28 AM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

Pence is currently giving a speech talking about how important repeal and replace is.

He's quite possibly more deranged than Trump.
posted by Yowser at 11:28 AM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Obamacare is going to explode! If there were only some party which controls all of the branches of government who could do something to fix it.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

OBAMACARE ROYALTIES, y'all.

...

Ok so. Traditionally, what has been the remedy for misinformation campaigns? Because the multiplier effect of the Internet and, in particular, Facebook, has made a qualitative difference in the nature of the threat such campaigns represent to the republic, civil order, and the fabric of fucking space time.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

Pretty sure the only Obamacare royalties are King Vita-Man and Count/Archduke Chocula.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:30 AM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

I keep coming back to the idea that 1/3 of humanity might just be terrible. Like in any random sample, you're going to have the True Asshole and then the people just dumb and mean enough to follow that True Asshole all the way to Assholevanyia. I don't really know what to do about that, tbh.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:38 AM on March 25, 2017 [46 favorites]

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) gets booed after calling Obamacare a disaster during a town hall in Columbia, South Carolina.
posted by futz at 11:44 AM on March 25, 2017 [62 favorites]

Politico is reporting that a source close to @POTUS says he's being advised to replace Reince & is open to possibility -- healthcare was last straw.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:48 AM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

I hope that somebody said to Trump "if you keep Reince, you'll just have the same problems over and over again. Remember that old saying, Donald. Reince... and repeat."

I regret nothing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:53 AM on March 25, 2017 [65 favorites]

$10 says "source close to @POTUS" = Bannon
posted by zakur at 11:53 AM on March 25, 2017 [25 favorites]

Would love to hear more Ds saying this on the air, but the media is obsessed with putting Rs on to give their side of the story for their abject failure.

I was really supremely pissed that yesterday late afternoon/evening, the news channels seemed to be nothing but fucking Republicans given a forum to whine some more about Obamacare and how terrible it is. You know, if your party controls the White House and both houses of Congress and you still can't get your shitty excuse for a substitute through, and we all know you don't even particularly want to do anything related to healthcare anyhow except piss on it, then maybe you should SHUT YOUR FUCKING PIEHOLE NOW FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

If the Democrats and all the grassroots folks who worked their asses off to strike fear into the hearts of their Republican reps and listened to a decade of non-stop ACA-dissing deserve anything as a reward, it's a few days of being able to eat their delicious goddamn cake in peace and quiet.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:54 AM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

The funny thing is, I'm convinced Reince is still the most competent senior staffer in the White House. He's a complete shit and I have no appreciation for him, but he's literally the only name I recognize from senior staff who is qualified to be working there.

So at that point, I'm torn between "Get rid of him and see how fast your next big initiative falls apart" versus "Oh god if they get rid of him the first Muslim Ban will look like the least harmful roll-out they've ever done."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:57 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

I keep coming back to the idea that 1/3 of humanity might just be terrible.

I have to agree. And sadly my mother is one of them. I've mentioned before that I ended relations with her after Trump won because of her avid support of him. And glancing at her Twitter today it's filled with retweets of PrisonPlanet of Infowars, VDare, Coulter, Ingraham and the rest of the Hitler Youth.

For years I pretended her awful beliefs and actions were because of her misguided evangelicalism. But after she embraced the very antithesis of those supposed beliefs, I could no longer pretend it was the beliefs that were terrible. It's my mom who's terrible. Religion just gave her an outlet and excuse for her hate, small-mindedness and bigotry.

I'm actually glad to come to this clarification because the tacit acceptance of her beliefs, beliefs that harmed people I loved, was taking its toll. And I also think that too often people are excused for heinous beliefs because they are old or family. I know I did it. So maybe refusing to have her in my life will make her reconsider some things. In all likelihood it won't wake her up one iota, make her change a single belief, but I feel better about it and feel like I'm doing the most I can now after decades of trying to change her through dialogue.
posted by chris24 at 11:57 AM on March 25, 2017 [113 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: ObamaCare will explode and we will all get together and piece together a great healthcare plan for THE PEOPLE.

So...the three bucket strategy became the "fuckit" strategy when it comes to Health Care reforms?
posted by nubs at 12:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

A sudden sensation of dread came over Priebus as the cold and metallic taste of Nixon Submission Meatloaf returned to his palate like a vengeful revenant
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [19 favorites]

I'm with you. I'm still so sorry that you have to do it, and that you had to carry that for so many years. My family's flavor of crazy/awful is different, but I feel for anyone who's had to come to that realization, in that visceral way, and it feels like there are so many of them in the past few months. I'm usually better as the war-rig mentioned up thread, but I have like a million hugs for all of you anyway (shiny and chrome).
posted by schadenfrau at 12:12 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

All the GOP controlled states that rejected expanding Medicaid - what are the odds of them doing an abrupt u-turn on this as they now stand to lose out on tons of federal funding?
posted by PenDevil at 12:13 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm with you.

I'm also with you. Anyone who retweets Ann Coulter is dead to me. Now and always.
posted by puddledork at 12:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

Um, Priebus is their one remaining link to the institutional party, right?

Literally Bannon's plan is to go to war with the GOP?

I'm feeling...tingly.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:15 PM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

Hmmm... you know, it is never good to hook your cart to crazy horse and then act surprised when you are in the ditch or careening all around the road. So, the billionaires that supported Trump, such as the Mercers, Hubbard, Thiel, Devos what happens to them? What is the new calculus, if any?
posted by jadepearl at 12:18 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

So, the billionaires that supported Trump, such as the Mercers, Hubbard, Thiel, Devos what happens to them? What is the new calculus, if any?

They continue to float above us all on their giant clouds of money untouched by anything.
posted by srboisvert at 12:25 PM on March 25, 2017 [25 favorites]

So pleased about the fail of Trumpcare. Except while we've been celebrating, Trump has changed the rules of engagement in the Middle East and is killing so many civilians the monitoring groups cannot keep up.
posted by suelac at 12:26 PM on March 25, 2017 [54 favorites]

Nixon Submission Meatloaf

You know, this entered our vocabulary only a few days ago it seems, and every time I see it, I <3 MeFi Folks just a little more than I ever thought possible. Thanks for being there for me. And a big round of applause to the Mods, who perform the nigh impossible task of keepin this train on the tracks...
posted by mikelieman at 12:29 PM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

Suelac:
Holy fuck, killing their families indeed. This kind of conduct makes me absolutely furious. It's immoral and disgusting. Not only that, but it has ZERO practical benefits. They are fucking writing IS' propaganda for them!
posted by constantinescharity at 12:34 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

From the Cambridge Anal article above,

In Latvia, SCL said it ran a campaign in 2006 designed to stoke tensions between Latvians and ethnic Russian residents: “In essence, Russians were blamed for unemployment and other problems affecting the economy,” an SCL document said. Nix confirms the firm’s role, saying that its research found that such tensions would “influence voting behavior.”

Well these are just good people, that's clear.
posted by petebest at 12:39 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) gets booed after calling Obamacare a disaster during a town hall in Columbia, South Carolina.

I watched that press conference. It was weird to watch because he kept saying good stuff then absolutely shoot himself in the foot with Republican orthodoxy.
posted by Talez at 12:40 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

In regards to the Beristain article that petebest linked above -- I'm going to dance and sing inside every time a Trump-voting asshole feels the consequences of their actions. I feel sorry for her husband and her kids, but she voted in the hopes of enjoying the suffering of other people and too late discovered that the monster was happy to eat her too.
posted by tavella at 12:44 PM on March 25, 2017 [25 favorites]

the news channels seemed to be nothing but fucking Republicans given a forum to whine some more about Obamacare and how terrible it is.

Corporate news exists to make a profit. That's it - it serves no "function" except in textbooks or in theory. In actuality it sells trucks, boner pills, and rage and has no other purpose save accidentally.

Plus weather with Pat McFlahrety at 5, 6, and 10. And now these messages.
posted by petebest at 12:45 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

I keep coming back to the idea that 1/3 of humanity might just be terrible.

This has been my belief for quite some time. Like, true shitgibbon assholes aren't necessarily the majority, but they're a significant enough minority that if the non-assholes look away for even a second... well, here we are. Because the thing about assholes is that they don't care, and in that lack of caring is power disproportionate to their size. When you don't give much of a shit about hurting people, and you definitely definitely don't give a shit about helping people...again, here we are.

The Confucians, like many philosophers, were concerned about man's essential nature, and Xunzi minced no words when he literally said "human nature stinks." And you have to work goddamn hard to wash that stink off (Xunzi recommends ritual and filial piety, ymmv). Most of us care enough to give it a go, but a not insignificant proportion are like, nah, I'm good.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:48 PM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

Nixon Submission Meatloaf

If you thought Bat Out of Hell 2 was a bad idea, wait til you hear the album that was quietly pulled from stores and buried in the desert.
posted by petebest at 12:50 PM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

toldja: freedom bombs. good job.
posted by j_curiouser at 12:53 PM on March 25, 2017

Except while we've been celebrating, Trump has changed the rules of engagement in the Middle East and is killing so many civilians the monitoring groups cannot keep up.

But the Green Party said that Obama was killing so many people in the Middle East that they'd never know the difference between the two presidents!

I'm pretty sure they care about civilians in the Middle East the same way the religious right cares about babies: they want to save lives (we'll take that at face value), but only if they're saving them the right way.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 12:59 PM on March 25, 2017 [20 favorites]

I feel sorry for her husband and her kids, but she voted in the hopes of enjoying the suffering of other people and too late discovered that the monster was happy to eat her too.

From what I recall of some article I read about this, she just wanted a chaaaaaange!

Problem is, when you want a chaaaaaaaaaaange you gotta be real sure what you want. You probably shouldn't vote "chaaaaange!" if the chaaaaaaaange is pretty obviously "burn everyone down to the ground." If you ignored that, that's on you. Also, it was pretty stupid to think "bad hombres" actually meant that when you knew darned well your husband had come to the attention of the law once while being brown and undocumented. At this point if you're brown and sneezed in the vicinity of a cop once, it's probably enough to be dubbed a bad hombre in need of booting.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:05 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

Two seconds thinking about ICE should let you know that as a gang of racist and corrupt lazy assholes when given carte blanch they're going to do whatever hurts the most people for least effort. That's going to be hurting people with families and relationships and leaving "bad hombres" well alone.
posted by Artw at 1:11 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Well, look, she wanted leopards to eat people's faces, y'know, but this. This affects her. That wasn't made clear. Enough. By Fox News
posted by petebest at 1:11 PM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

All the GOP controlled states that rejected expanding Medicaid - what are the odds of them doing an abrupt u-turn on this as they now stand to lose out on tons of federal funding?

Yes, now that they see Obamacare as inevitable, there is no reason to hold out for craven political purposes and pass up billions in federal dollars. But perhaps more important, Seema Verma is set to take over CMS and she has great discretion in issuing waivers to states that don't comply with the Obamacare rules for administering Medicaid expansion, making it easier to swallow for recalcitrant states -- and that's not all good, as explained below.

The Obamacare rules for Medicaid expansion were designed to replace the arbitrary and capricious variety of qualifications for Medicaid that each state previously prescribed. This generally meant that no one except disabled and single parents with children were eligible for Medicaid, no matter how poor.

Obamacare simplified this by saying that anyone below a certain income level was eligible for Medicaid health insurance. Simple, sweet and completely uniform in every state.

Verma said about the convoluted Medicaid waiver she created in Indiana"This structure melds two themes of American society that typically collide in our healthcare system, rugged individualism and the Judeo Christian ethic." So expect lots of degrading and unnecessary hoops for Medicaid applicants to jump through in Red states to discourage participation, the complete opposite of Obamacare's intent.

It may not be pretty but at least some of the 4 million uninsured among the poor in states like Texas and Florida may finally get a chance at healthcare.
posted by JackFlash at 1:12 PM on March 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) gets booed after calling Obamacare a disaster during a town hall in Columbia, South Carolina.

And he chuckles, smiles, and gives the booing crowd a thumbs-up. I thought Graham was supposed to be one of the non-psychopath Republicans.
posted by zakur at 1:12 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Anyone who retweets Ann Coulter is dead to me. Now and always

I feel the same way about people helping Jennifer Rubin rehabilitate her image.
posted by rhizome at 1:17 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Real Threat to National Security: Deadly Disease. We need to be budgeting to defend against the next pandemic.
posted by homunculus at 1:23 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Problem is, when you want a chaaaaaaaaaaange you gotta be real sure what you want. You probably shouldn't vote "chaaaaange!" if the chaaaaaaaange is pretty obviously "burn everyone down to the ground." If you ignored that, that's on you. Also, it was pretty stupid to think "bad hombres" actually meant that when you knew darned well your husband had come to the attention of the law once while being brown and undocumented. At this point if you're brown and sneezed in the vicinity of a cop once, it's probably enough to be dubbed a bad hombre in need of booting.

oh no
posted by Talez at 1:23 PM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

Just got back from the counter protest to the MAGA rally here in Philly. I wasn't aware that the protest I was attending was antifa / black bloc, so that was a surprise. I must have looked fairly ridiculous in wearing normal clothes and my backpack from early sat AM class. I won't write out another play by play of events out of respect for the nature of the antifa group but suffice to say that the objectives, as I understand them, were to disrupt the Trump rally and prevent them from marching down the boulevard to the Museum. We were successful in achieving those objectives, in spades. It was dicey, involved a lot of running, some injuries and arrests, but successful. First time I've ever been able to participate in successfully moving through a line of cops trying to restrict movement too. Anyways. I am very tired now.
posted by lazaruslong at 1:24 PM on March 25, 2017 [57 favorites]

I'm taking a break from systematically copy/pasting twitter into MetaFilter to show up at the Nancy Pelosi/Jackie Speier townhall. It's a fairly Indivisible-heavy crowd so far. The main agenda item seems to be to ask Pelosi to cosponsor HR 676, the Medicare for All bill.
posted by zachlipton at 1:29 PM on March 25, 2017 [19 favorites]

"Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan,"

I originally read that as feathers and was trying to picture victory looking very fine, perhaps like an eagle or a peacock.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 1:36 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

I thought Graham was supposed to be one of the non-psychopath Republicans.

Oh, no. Nope. No, no, no. Heh. Just, no. Graham? Noooooo. Nooope. No.Nuh-uh. No.
posted by Cookiebastard at 1:39 PM on March 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

zachlipton is anyone streaming that on facebook?
posted by supercrayon at 1:39 PM on March 25, 2017

University of New Hampshire Professor/Huffington Post Political Columnist @SethAbramson :

(THREAD) BREAKING: Harvard professor and @CNN political analyst Juliette Kayyem says, per sources, Michael Flynn may have flipped on Trump.
(1) First, as an attorney I want to make clear that, if this @CNN analyst's sources are correct, the #Russiagate scandal is blown wide open.
(2) The FBI flips witnesses, turning them into cooperating individuals, _only_ when they can help secure conviction of a bigger "target."
(3) Michael Flynn was the National Security Adviser for the President of the United States. The only _bigger_ target is Donald J. Trump.
(4) But Flynn also held a clandestine meeting with Russian ambassador/spy Sergey Kislyak and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner in December '16.
(5) And Flynn coordinated with infamous Iran-Contra figure and Russian oil/gas pipeline advocate Bud McFarlane in hiring Trump's Deputy NSA.
(6) And of course Flynn had the highest possible clearance and greatest possible access to POTUS in discussing matters of national security.
(7) Flynn's hire as NSA was controversial--even suspicious--when it was made due to Flynn's absolutely _terrible_ reputation in Washington.
(8) This suggests the hire wasn't based on merit, but rather the fact that Flynn is _known_ to have ties (in-person ties) to Vladimir Putin.
(9) We should conclude from the foregoing that Flynn was in the best position of _anyone_ involved in #Russiagate to see _all_ its contours.
(10) Given all of the above, we can say that if any one person could bring down Trump due to #Russiagate, it's the man the FBI may now have.

That's a yuge IF, of course, but #russiagate, or whatever we're calling this scandal, is potentially yuge, too. And if it blows open just when Trump's failed spectacularly on Capitol Hill, the political timing to go after him couldn't be better.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:43 PM on March 25, 2017 [52 favorites]

From my sources and what has been openly reported, it increasingly looks like #Flynn may have a deal with the FBI. #trumprussia
posted by un petit cadeau at 1:43 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

No definitive source yet but the story is spreading that Michael Flynn has flipped.
posted by scalefree at 1:45 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

Jinx! Co-Jinx!
posted by scalefree at 1:46 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Alex Jones Apologizes for 'Pizzagate' Fake News

Meanwhile, Protesters outside White House demand ‘Pizzagate’ investigation

Hayes wore a shirt saying “Pizzagate is Not Fake News.” His wife, Danielle, 31, wore one reading “Investigate Pizzagate.”

Their three children, ages 9, 5 and 2, each wore shirts saying “I Am Not Pizza #pizzagate.”

[...]

“Don’t you dare imply that we are crazy ones,” said one woman into a megaphone.

“Right?” said Danielle Hayes as she watched from the audience, pushing a baby stroller.

“Hold my hand baby,” she said, reaching for her 5-year-old daughter in the Pizzagate t-shirt and casting a quick glance at the city around her.

“This is where the monsters live,” she said. “That’s why we’re here.”

Those poor kids.
posted by zakur at 1:47 PM on March 25, 2017 [46 favorites]

Speaking of Flynn and Russiagate, guess who was also at the January meeting between Flynn and Turkish officials?

Devin Nunes.
posted by chris24 at 1:49 PM on March 25, 2017 [55 favorites]

Kayyem is a bit more than a talking head/Harvard professor. She was an assistant secretary of homeland security under Obama.
posted by adamg at 1:49 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

Or it means that Flynn will help Comey, Nunes, and the rest brush it all under the rug.
posted by kewb at 1:50 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

Was just about to post the Flynn thing too. It's possible that you flip Flynn to get a lesser target than Trump. Like Manafort or others who were high up in the Trump campaign. But you're only one degree away from Trump at that point.

It also calls further attention to FBI Director Comey visiting the White House yesterday after Paul Ryan left. No reason for the meeting was given.
posted by dry white toast at 1:51 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Supercrayon: I think it will be on Pelosi/Speier's Facebook pages. Let me know if it's not streamed anyway and I can do an awful handheld stream if needed.
posted by zachlipton at 1:51 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

(THREAD) BREAKING: Harvard professor and @CNN political analyst Juliette Kayyem says, per sources, Michael Flynn may have flipped on Trump.

OK, who's birthday is it today? You know what to do
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:51 PM on March 25, 2017 [30 favorites]

Their three children, ages 9, 5 and 2, each wore shirts saying “I Am Not Pizza #pizzagate.”

I wish the best for these children and possibly even more so for the poor teacher who has to read the resulting 'what I did over spring break' essay
posted by flatluigi at 1:53 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

I'm really hoping Juliette Kayyem doesn't turn out to be the Andrew Napolitano of the left.
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Or it means that Flynn will help Comey, Nunes, and the rest brush it all under the rug.

How does that work though? The FBI's job isn't to help a political campaign cover up wrong-doing. Exactly the opposite. And if that were the case, Flynn wouldn't need protection from prosecution to do that.
posted by dry white toast at 1:55 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is the Flynn thing real life? I said this was my pet theory! I am so happy!
posted by Justinian at 1:55 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

I already sank a growler full of an 8.5% tripel today to celebrate the AHCA going down. If this RussiaGate thing turns out to be real and connected to Trump or someone in his inner circle, I may need to get on the waiting list for a new liver by tomorrow.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:55 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

The "teacher" to those children is likely a relative, home "schooling."
posted by thebrokedown at 1:56 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Protesters outside White House demand ‘Pizzagate’ investigation

Wonder if they know about Alex Jones retraction?
posted by PenDevil at 1:56 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Speaking of Flynn and Russiagate, guess who was also at the January meeting between Flynn and Turkish officials?

Devin Nunes.

Just when I thought I couldn't even anymore I realize I really finally can't even.
posted by dis_integration at 1:56 PM on March 25, 2017 [20 favorites]

MetaFilter: In actuality it sells trucks, boner pills, and rage and has no other purpose save accidentally.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:57 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

Flynn should really avoid any single engine aircraft and people carrying umbrellas in sunny weather for the foreseeable future.
posted by Justinian at 1:58 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

...Also, it was pretty stupid to think "bad hombres" actually meant...

Something! Or anything!

In this overabundance of horrible and just-plain-dumb things, this may really be the thing that might be driving me nuts the most/the most nuts.

DJT says often says things aren't particularly meaningful in a specific sense - so people get to read into them whatever they are going to read into them. I sure don't like bad hombres, but I know my husband is not a bad hombre, so LET'S GO GIT'EM DADDY TRUMP!

It's just crazy-making to me watching people realize the repercussions of things that they maybe should have thought through before they dropped a turd in the ballot box. Why didn't they see this kind of thing coming?

/end rant - sorry.
posted by Golem XIV at 1:59 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Forget Pizzagate, here's Nothingburgergate (or Nothingburghazi?)
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:00 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Flynn should really avoid any single engine aircraft and people carrying umbrellas in sunny weather for the foreseeable future.

And cars & upper story windows.
posted by scalefree at 2:01 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Hey did you guys hear about Flypping Flynn? Intresting if true. /Cosell

The recent post on Lynda Carter's Rock 'n Roll Fantasy seems relevant in this thread somehow. Dancing gorillas? Disco KISS? I can't quite place it yet.

Probably the coke.
posted by petebest at 2:06 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Welp, it may be true.

Flynn's spokesperson says he is "not responding" to questions on if he is cooperating with the FBI per @lrozen. That's... interesting.
posted by chris24 at 2:10 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

Even if Flynn isn't definitely cooperating, the fact that rumors are even swirling may lead Manafort to a mad dash to try and get the first best deal.
posted by chris24 at 2:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Carter Page and Roger Stone quickly banded together with Manafort in agreeing to testify before Congress. Wonder why we haven't heard from Flynn about getting with the team and jumping on that bandwagon?
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:19 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Let's say Flynn's testimony is enough to land Manafort or Kushner. Can DJT issue a Presidential pardon before any trials take place? And if so why would anyone cooperate with any investigation?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:20 PM on March 25, 2017

Whats the prescident on self pardoning?
posted by Artw at 2:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

So if and when Flynn flips, and if more follow, it ain't gonna be pretty. (via)
posted by maudlin at 2:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Unless Manafort is the FBI's target. If anyone laid the groundwork for Russia to influence Trump and Trump's campaign it was him.

I don't believe that Trump was the mastermind of anything. He was just someone that Russia saw could be easily duped. Not that that makes him less worthy of impeachment.

As long as Nunes is controlling the House Intelligence Committee, nothing germane is going to come out of testimony it gathers. It seems more likely that Nunes is orchestrating Page, Stone, and Manafort's appearance to give them a soft landing and try to portray a sense that the investigation is much ado about nothing.
posted by dry white toast at 2:23 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Let's say Flynn's testimony is enough to land Manafort or Kushner. Can DJT issue a Presidential pardon before any trials take place? And if so why would anyone cooperate with any investigation?

Trump can pardon them anytime, even beforehand. But a pre-emptive pardon would look terrible for Trump and bring the scandal directly to his doorstop. And IANAL, but pardons don't allow you to get out of testifying about what you know. And in fact, with pardons you could no longer take the 5th if I'm not mistaken.
posted by chris24 at 2:24 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

If you were under FBI investigation for selling out US interests to foreign powers, would you take the chance that Trump could file an ironclad presidential pardon any better than his shoddily composed executive orders?
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:25 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

The discussion upthread about Ryan's and Trump's suits reminded me of literally the only hope I had about the next four years: that maybe, if the President has any influence over fashion (and not all do, but sometimes you get a Kennedy or a Truman), just maybe we could get back to more relaxed tailoring. Sure, we don't all need to go around in shapeless potato sacks and Scotch-taping our ties (for God's sake), but it would have been nice to have somebody in the public eye showing that it's OK for suits not to be some skin-tight, Pee Wee Herman-ass, Tom Ford bellhop jacket and clamdiggers nonsense.
posted by MrBadExample at 2:26 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

So if and when Flynn flips, and if more follow, it ain't gonna be pretty.

It's going to be *beautiful*.

Trying to tamp down my hopes here...dammit, Ode to Joy, get out of my head!
posted by uosuaq at 2:26 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

If you get immunity from prosecution, there's no crime/conviction for which to pardon you.

And yeah, if my choice were that, or trusting Trump to bail me out, I'd take immunity. More likely that Trump saw Flynn as being able to take the fall.
posted by dry white toast at 2:28 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is like when you're watching a tense crime drama and the cops and the hard-assed DA start putting together their airtight RICO case against the local mob.
posted by supercrayon at 2:30 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

BIRTHDAYS FOR EVERYBODY
posted by schadenfrau at 2:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [55 favorites]

Carter Page and Roger Stone quickly banded together with Manafort in agreeing to testify before Congress.

No, it says they refused to shut up about how unfair everyone's been to them and they want to "talk to the committee". a.k.a. Bullshit.

In fact it actively harms the investigation as surely somebody involved, most probably not Stone or Page, realizes.
posted by petebest at 2:33 PM on March 25, 2017

if the President has any influence over fashion (and not all do, but sometimes you get a Kennedy or a Truman), just maybe we could get back to more relaxed tailoring. Sure, we don't all need to go around in shapeless potato sacks and Scotch-taping our ties (for God's sake), but it would have been nice to have somebody in the public eye showing that it's OK for suits not to be some skin-tight, Pee Wee Herman-ass, Tom Ford bellhop jacket and clamdiggers nonsense.

Fuck that shit. I'm female. If I have to suffer (and I do), then men have no reason to complain at all about wanting tailoring to be 'relaxed'.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 2:45 PM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

Today is the birthday of both Elton "I'm Still Standing" John and Aretha ""R-E-S-P-E-C-T" Franklin. Also Big Sean "I Don't Fuck With You". And non-musical legend Gloria Steinem.

As the story develops, tomorrow we get Diana Ross (representing The Supremes), Steven Tyler (representing The Stevens), Leonard Nimoy (representing logic), and Larry Page (representing Google). Monday's biggest name is Quentin Tarantino, so it'll be a good day for a bloodbath.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:46 PM on March 25, 2017 [32 favorites]

per chris24's link above,
Published
January 18, 2017
"Met with General Flynn, who will assume the position of National Security Advisor, and other officials at a working breakfast in Washington D.C.," Çavuşoğlu tweeted.

The meeting marks a first direct reachout between the President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan administration and the incoming Donald Trump administration, other than a phone call between two leaders last November.

House Intelligence Committee Congressman Devin Nunes, a Republican heavyweight, also attended the breakfast.
posted by petebest at 2:47 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Whats the prescident on self pardoning?

It's never been tested but the answer is he probably could do so.

The remedy for a criminal president is impeachment.
posted by Justinian at 2:47 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ode to Joy, get out of my head

Now in it's revised version, "An die Schadenfreude"
posted by dis_integration at 2:48 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

This is like when you're watching a tense crime drama and the cops and the hard-assed DA start putting together their airtight RICO case against the local mob.

And then you hear Dum-DUM and the scene changes to Adam Schiff's office.
posted by adamg at 2:52 PM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

D'oh. Missed the best part of the article, the last sentence:
Turkish officials have previously stated that Turkey can cooperate with the new U.S. administration since many of Turkey's views overlap with the incoming president.

Now there's a lucky thing, eh "workin' like a jerky for Turkey" Flynn?
posted by petebest at 2:52 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

I don't see how Nunes can still be in charge of the investigation. Surely his Republican peers must see how suspicious it looks. Do they think we are not paying attention to all of this?

In other news more FOX pundits are calling for Ryan to be replaced. If we are very good children and eat all of our vegetables maybe both Reince and Ryan will be out on their keesters.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:54 PM on March 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

UNfortunately, if your average Trumplicant can't understand his administration will deport their husbands, this extra-rich, data-heavy story is going to need a really good puppet show to connect.
posted by petebest at 2:57 PM on March 25, 2017 [26 favorites]

NYC MeFites, there's fundraiser for Jon Ossof in the Georgia 5th special election on April 5th:

The event is at 7:30 Wednesday, April 5th, at Hi-Fi (169 Ave. A). And if taking a House seat away from the GOP wasn't enough...there will also be drink specials.

If you're interested in attending, just click here to sign up and make a contribution! Even if you can't make it, you can still donate here, and support Jon's campaign.

posted by schadenfrau at 2:57 PM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

Now in it's revised version, "An die Schadenfreude"
I checked in Kinsky/Halm Beethoven Verzeichnis (the book was actually laying open on my desk, don't ask): Fake news.
posted by Namlit at 2:58 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Gerald Ford pre-emptively pardoned Nixon. I'd expect nothing less from Pence or whoever the Last Republican Standing is.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:58 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

No, it says they refused to shut up about how unfair everyone's been to them and they want to "talk to the committee". a.k.a. Bullshit.

I agree, petebest. I wanted to draw attention to Manafort, Page, and Stone all coincidentally offering to talk to Nunes' tainted committee while Flynn is conspicuous in his absence from that group, even though he's in just as much hot water. If Flynn's struck a deal with the FBI, the others are much less likely to be able to, leaving public bullshitting their best short-term option. Nunes hasn't even confirmed if Manafort would testify publicly or behind closed doors (and I would wager that none of them, least of all deer-in-the-headlights Page, want to do so under oath).

Also, Roger Stone just tweeted that he'll be on ABC's This Week tomorrow to discuss the bugging of Trump, the "Russian myth", and presumably whatever Stephanopoulos will let him get away with.

And the pro-Trump National Enquirer has now published a cover story "Trump Catches Russia's White House Spy" - i.e. Flynn - that's going to be seen by checkout counters across the country next week.

Expect a lot of disinformation in the times to come.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:58 PM on March 25, 2017 [20 favorites]

In other news more FOX pundits are calling for Ryan to be replaced.

Who the hell do they think can do any different, the entire party is full of even bigger idiots than Ryan, which is why he was the only one they could find last time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:58 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

NYC MeFites, there's fundraiser for Jon Ossof in the Georgia 5th special election on April 5th:

Also, early voting starts this Monday March 27th. Get it out of the way.
posted by chris24 at 3:00 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Fuck that shit. I'm female. If I have to suffer (and I do), then men have no reason to complain at all about wanting tailoring to be 'relaxed'.

Let's go full British banker and stuff ourselves into suits that we can barely button up. This will show that we are so prosperous we are exploding out of our suits.
posted by srboisvert at 3:02 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

And the pro-Trump National Enquirer has now published a cover story "Trump Catches Russia's White House Spy" - i.e. Flynn - that's going to be seen by checkout counters across the country next week.

See, now *that's* a good puppet show. Like that! But not evil. Okay, whatta we got?
posted by petebest at 3:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

This is wild. I've been busy in the real world for a wild, and just spent the last couple of hours reading this whole thread. It's really really wild.

Imagine someone who isn't on metafilter and isn't that interested in politics, whose FB feed is filled with friends pouting and cute cats tumbling, and then all of this breaks loose for real: healthcare, travelban, Kuschner's bailout, Korea missile launch, Russia conspiracy, continuous campaign... Actually, I can easily imagine that person (2/3 of my friends), but I can't imagine their reactions at all. It's too much of everything.

And then think of the poor school kids in 10-20 years time. I remember when we had to read about the whole Bay of Pigs thing, it was so confusing and hard to understand, more than half of my class just zoned out and hoped it wouldn't be on the exam.

Also, I know someone who is a salesperson in an expensive mens' shoe store. They say the most surprising and hilarious part of that job is that some people with small feet buy hugely oversized shoes. Clown shoes for real.
posted by mumimor at 3:04 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Flynn should really avoid any single engine aircraft and people carrying umbrellas in sunny weather for the foreseeable future.

And cars & upper story windows.

and radioactive tea.
posted by srboisvert at 3:06 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Rep. Speier says Nunes never even informed Schiff he was cancelling the open hearing next week. There are shouts of "traitor!"
posted by zachlipton at 3:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

Remember: lots of people came out of the woodwork to vote for Trump and his hateful shit. Half the battle is to get them so discouraged that they remain in the woodwork for 2018. A steady stream of news that Trump is both ineffectual and crooked (like, Nixon Redux crooked) will help dampen spirits. The Other Half is putting young, intelligent, non-crazy-sounding Dems out there to challenge each and every red stronghold. Vinegar is hard, but the honey of 'Oh, this is actually a pleasant alternative' can work magic.
posted by eclectist at 3:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

I don't see how Nunes can still be in charge of the investigation. Surely his Republican peers must see how suspicious it looks. Do they think we are not paying attention to all of this?

Now that it's out that he was at the planning meeting for the Turkish Kidnapping Club, he has to step down. Has to. Yes?
posted by scalefree at 3:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

The Enquirer doing a cover story claiming that Flynn was the Russian spy is, to me, the strongest suggestion that Flynn may be offering damning testimony to the intelligence community.

Also, I just want to thank frowner and spitbull, among others, for being voices of encouragement and historical context over the last few threads. I think the media is downplaying the degree to which the bill was defeated by a combination of an emerging liberal grassroots movement and the general American populace tending to favor government intervention in practice (while liking small government rhetoric in principle).
posted by Slothrop at 3:08 PM on March 25, 2017 [33 favorites]

“This is where the monsters live,” she said. “That’s why we’re here.”
Those poor kids.

In 10 years those kids will move out and live with the monsters instead.
posted by srboisvert at 3:09 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

I agree that It will be difficult but maybe one of those Freedom Caucus members will take a crack at it.

I guess the way to neutralize Presidential pardons is to get some else in the WH-- someone who is not beholden to this crowd of hucksters and has a goddamn moral backbone with enough integrity and will to thoroughly clean house. The only person I can think of at the moment is Romney, possibly Egg, but neither of those guys are going to be offered the job.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:10 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Gerald Ford pre-emptively pardoned Nixon. I'd expect nothing less from Pence or whoever the Last Republican Standing is.

I don't see anyone falling on their sword for these clowns. Ford's pardon required a weird courage. These craven worms have shown in the last year that they have none.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:11 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

msnbc is doing a pretty deep dive into Manafort right now. Also talking Flynn/Carter Page/Roger Stone. It's almost like they are prepping their audience as to who all the players are before a larger story breaks.

Aaaaand they just said Flynn is in deep shit and that Flynn should start talking to the FBI.
posted by futz at 3:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

Gerald Ford pre-emptively pardoned Nixon.

And lots of people didn't think he would, I mean, after all that anguish and craziness, the "long national nightmare" etc., how could he just pull the rug out from under justice like that?

But he did. Then Reagan's "October Surprise", Iran-Contra, Gulf War I, Ken Starr and The Gingrich Bunch, Gulf War II: The Lost Pretzel Adventure, and 8 years of party-over-country.

And we still voted R even when our husbands were gonna get kicked out.

C'mooooon lucky number . . two, three, four . . 18? Whatever! Fiat justitia ruat caelum!
posted by petebest at 3:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump pardons the entire Republican Party. They go on as if nothing happened.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:16 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

There are shouts of "traitor!"

MOAR LIKE THIS PLS
posted by schadenfrau at 3:16 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Wonder if they know about Alex Jones retraction?

Hayes called InfoWars “the only place you can get the news nowadays where it’s not opinion,” but said he wasn’t bothered by Jones’s about-face on Pizzagate.

“This paper in my hand is at least enough for an investigation,” the 25-year-old said, holding a flier labeled “Pizzagate/Pedogate” that listed “pedophile code words and symbols” supposedly found at Comet Ping Pong.

I tried searching online for the likely "Pizzagate/Pedogate paper" he was waving around, but it was way too much crazy to wade through.
posted by zakur at 3:16 PM on March 25, 2017

LOL, check this out. Bloomberg is doing a running tally for how much it is costing NYC to protect trump. The web page is TRIPPY as hell.
posted by futz at 3:17 PM on March 25, 2017 [61 favorites]

"Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan,"

In Social Psychology this is called "Basking In Reflected Glory" (BIRGing) and "Casting Off Reflected Failure" (CORFing). It's the reason why when your local sports team loses you say "They lost" and when they win you say "We won".
posted by srboisvert at 3:21 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

The web page is TRIPPY as hell.

Whoa. I am not stoned enough for that. BRB.
posted by chris24 at 3:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

MSNBC reporting that Trump staff are purging their phones in case of subpoena.
posted by PenDevil at 3:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

Did....did Bloomberg eat the brownies I was keeping in the freezer? Whoever's closest to Bloomberg should put it in front of an xbox before it starts getting The Fear.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:27 PM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

Yeah, we need a constitutional attorney in here to explain how justice works in the executive branch. And the limits, if any, to presidential pardons.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 3:28 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

What limits are you wondering about? They can't pardon themselves.
posted by rhizome at 3:29 PM on March 25, 2017

Gerald Ford pre-emptively pardoned Nixon.

I think it was for any crimes he may have committed as President........so, if Ford, say, found Nixon's John Wayne Gacy basement after moving in, there'd be no way to charge Nixon with murder?
posted by thelonius at 3:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

MSNBC reporting that Trump staff are purging their phones in case of subpoena.

As mentioned elsewhere, ISTR HRC's Blackberry disposal practices receiving some criticism.
posted by rhizome at 3:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

That Bloomberg page? Someone has finally captured the essence of watching the Trump presidency from outside the US. Well done.
posted by N-stoff at 3:32 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

MSNBC reporting that Trump staff are purging their phones in case of subpoena.

Have they been under a rock the last decade? If anyone wants to know what you've been saying they'll know what you've been saying.
posted by Talez at 3:32 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

What limits are you wondering about? They can't pardon themselves.

They most certainly can. Well, theoretically. It's never been tested. As to the text of the powers, " he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment", it seems pretty unlimited.The only limit to the pardon power is impeachment.
posted by dis_integration at 3:32 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

I seem to recall Pres. Clinton promising not to pardon himself for whatever crime was alleged in the Lewinsky scandal, but can't find any 90s web news to that effect.
posted by dis_integration at 3:34 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

The web page is TRIPPY as hell.

i - i - i -

we must all praise the orange one - the orange one is our glorious leader - we must all worship the republican messiah - he is our father - he is our leader - he is ...

whoa, what the fuck just happened to me?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:35 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

MSNBC reporting that Trump staff are purging their phones in case of subpoena.

Have they been under a rock the last decade? If anyone wants to know what you've been saying they'll know what you've been saying.

And if they hadn't committed a crime before, they have now.
posted by chris24 at 3:36 PM on March 25, 2017 [41 favorites]

" he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, "

Taken at face value, "offenses against the United States" all but *explicitly* includes treason.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 3:37 PM on March 25, 2017

How does that work though? The FBI's job isn't to help a political campaign cover up wrong-doing. Exactly the opposite. And if that were the case, Flynn wouldn't need protection from prosecution to do that.

You may wish to remember what the FBI made into its job a couple of weeks before Election Day.

I'm very skeptical that anything comes of this; it's too damaging to the Republican Party, and they have more than enough power - and more than enough public polarization, apathy, and confusion -- to downplay, ignore, and obfuscate whatever they need to by simply refusing to pursue impeachment or further investigation.
posted by kewb at 3:38 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

But I am happy to have a lovely meal if I am wrong.
posted by kewb at 3:38 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

I imagine any case involving the President pardoning himself for conspiring with a foreign power to ensure his own election is the sort of white hot constitutional crisis that would go straight to the Supreme Court.

So about that stolen seat...
posted by schadenfrau at 3:38 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

if Ford, say, found Nixon's John Wayne Gacy basement after moving in, there'd be no way to charge Nixon with murder?

Occasionally, as a thought experiment, I think about whether particular serial killers would make a better president than the current one. Gacy makes the cut: actually a successful business owner, well-liked by his local non-victim community, active in charities and Democratic politics. Literally the only way Trump is a better person than Gacy is not being responsible for the 30-odd murders. Except, come to think of it, there were hundreds of civilians killed in that US airstrike in Iraq the other day, so...
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:40 PM on March 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

if Ford, say, found Nixon's John Wayne Gacy basement after moving in, there'd be no way to charge Nixon with murder?

Suppose the FBI comes to the White House to arrest the President. Does the Secret Service let them? And what if he yells outloud: "I pardon myself!", what do they do? I don't think anyone knows the answer to these questions. Impeachment is the only clear way to pursue legal action against a sitting President.
posted by dis_integration at 3:44 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Regular or Blackwater Secret Service?
posted by Artw at 3:46 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Trump Administration Clears Trump’s Washington Hotel: An agency engages in legal gymnastics, producing a bizarre and ultimately dishonest rationale.
posted by homunculus at 3:48 PM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

I have zero confidence that any amount of evidence will bring Trump down because no amount of evidence stopped his rise.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:49 PM on March 25, 2017 [30 favorites]

And what if he yells outloud: "I pardon myself!"

"I... DECLARE... BANKRUPTCY!"
posted by Servo5678 at 3:53 PM on March 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

Impeachment is the only clear way to pursue legal action against a sitting President

Yeah but you know this fucker would pardon himself for "everything" and then immediately, smugly resign, thinking he outsmarted the lawyers and got the best deal
posted by schadenfrau at 3:54 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

If Trump is going down, nobody is going to voluntarily go down with him. If he pardons himself, which would be outrageous in its face, no one that isn't already tangled up in this mess is going to lift a finger to help/obfuscate/condone. It's going to be absolutely toxic to anyone's career. You'll see the entire Republican Party run like hell in the other direction and pretend to have suspected all along which is why they didn't pass his healthcare bill or some such nonsense.

Doesn't mean he'll get prosecuted, granted (if nothing else because NOBODY on the R side wants to dig any deeper than absolutely necessary), but the best he might hope for is a nice dacha in Russia or, given the current Turkish allegations, on the Bosphorus.
posted by lydhre at 3:57 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Impeachment seems to be a 100% political process. There is no way to appeal it to the courts. It's entirely up to the House to decide what "high crimes and misdemeanors" means, what counts as due process in an impeachment trial, and any other normally legal issues, and up to the Senate to decide if a standard for conviction was reached.
posted by thelonius at 3:57 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

I imagine there are committees in both houses that keep tabs on impeachment procedures and precedents.
posted by vrakatar at 4:00 PM on March 25, 2017

I remain scandalized, btw, at the obscene hypocrisy of the Republicans. If a Democratic president (or ahem presidential candidate) had a brewing Russian scandal of even a minute fraction of the magnitude of the current one they'd be literally demanding guillotines in the public square.
posted by lydhre at 4:01 PM on March 25, 2017 [37 favorites]

"MSNBC reporting that Trump staff are purging their phones in case of subpoena."

Wouldn't the carrier still have the texts? I seem to remember Kwame Kirkpatrick having a little trouble along those lines.
posted by klarck at 4:01 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

Gerald Ford pre-emptively pardoned Nixon. I think it was for any crimes he may have committed as President........so, if Ford, say, found Nixon's John Wayne Gacy basement after moving in, there'd be no way to charge Nixon with murder?

You can read Gerald Ford's pardon here.

"Now, Therefore, I, Gerald R. Ford, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974."

Note that it is not a blanket pardon. It covers only specific "offenses against the United States" and only for a specific period of time. Offenses against the United States are things like treason, bribery, perjury, criminal libel and other actions that could affect the orderly operation of government.
posted by JackFlash at 4:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

(2) The FBI flips witnesses, turning them into cooperating individuals, _only_ when they can help secure conviction of a bigger "target."

(3) Michael Flynn was the National Security Adviser for the President of the United States. The only _bigger_ target is Donald J. Trump.

I'm sorry but that's quite a leap. I'll be ~~happy~~ overjoyed to bake a cake though.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

They probably deleted their damn emails too. REMEMBER THE EMAILS
posted by localhuman at 4:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

I think that what will likely happen is that someone lower on the totem pole gets made an example of, and it doesn't ever get to trump himself. But, hey, I was sure that the AHCA would pass in some form w/ trump taking credit, and look what happened. I would love for my cynicism to be proven wrong.
posted by codacorolla at 4:11 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Just write "DJT Legal Defense Fund" in the memo.

Melania Trump is featured guest at Mar-a-Lago fundraiser after GOP drops $150,000 to rent ballroom

Seldom-seen First Lady Melania Trump was on hand Friday night at a GOP fundraiser held at the Trump-owned Mar-a-Lago resort after the Palm Beach County GOP paid $150,000 for the use of a ballroom.

Everybody earns.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:12 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Man, if I have learned one thing, your emails never go away especially if you are using Outlook at all. Then again you could be super smooth like Petraeus and using the gmail drafts folder to be communicating with your lover, but that didn't work out for him. Hell, I found Novell Groupwise mail spam that should have been incinerated over a decade ago.
posted by jadepearl at 4:13 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

The problem is EVERYBODY is getting involved in the cover up, so there isn't really a way for just one person to fall on their sword.
posted by Artw at 4:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm maybe going to stop at this comment with armchair lawyering but "offenses against the united states" includes all crimes. The state forbids it, so when we commit a crime, we are commiting an offense against the state, first and foremost, and the victim (if there is one) secondarily. The constitution uses that exact phrase ("offenses against the united states") and it is interpreted to include any crime, basically, with perhaps some limits, like maybe contempt of court.
posted by dis_integration at 4:15 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Then again you could be super smooth like Petraeus and using your drafts folder on gmail to be communicating

FWIW, he gurfed that idea from Al Qaeda.
posted by rhizome at 4:15 PM on March 25, 2017

Why is she a "featured guest?" Shouldn't she be there by like, default?
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:17 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm maybe going to stop at this comment with armchair lawyering but "offenses against the united states" includes all crimes.

i think that would be all federal crimes - state crimes might still be prosecutable

well, it's not like donnie's bright enough to phrase it properly anyway
posted by pyramid termite at 4:20 PM on March 25, 2017

If we are very good children and eat all of our vegetables maybe both Reince and Ryan will be out on their keesters/

See I don't know about you but if the GOP is going to be in power, I want The Gang That Can't Shoot Straight staying just where they are.

The only thing worse than an incompetent and unpopular conservative leader is a competent and popular conservative leader.
posted by dry white toast at 4:21 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

i think that would be all federal crimes - state crimes might still be prosecutable

Yes. Federal pardons are only for federal crims. State crimes require the governor of that state to pardon them.
posted by Talez at 4:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Ah well, I guess you gotta pay to get her out of the tower.

That photo of her on that article, yeesh.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:22 PM on March 25, 2017

All The Presidents Men
posted by robbyrobs at 4:24 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Rhizome, good to know that Petraeus was paying homage to a rival's technique. But back on topic, every email gets saved even deleted and drafts. I am taking a look at my various email clients and man, I got mail everywhere and it is tedious deleting the same email because of syncing. If the Trump folks are deleting I would be surprised someone halfway decent with forensics could not get their crap easily. Also, how technically sophisticated can these folks be if they are doing shenanigans on their personal phones or even better govt. issued phones?
posted by jadepearl at 4:24 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

they'd be literally demanding guillotines in the public square.

Too French.

"Liberty Loppers"?
posted by howfar at 4:25 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

One thing Trumpistas all have in common is their desire for self-aggrandizement and looking after only themselves. No one is going to throw themselves on the grenade to save the others. When faced with a choice, every last one of them will turn on each other to save themselves. Excuse me, my microwave popcorn just beeped.
posted by dry white toast at 4:27 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

That photo of her on that article, yeesh.

now coming to a theatre near you - melania trump in stephen king's carrie ...
posted by pyramid termite at 4:29 PM on March 25, 2017

with Palm Beach County GOP Chairman Michael Barnett saying it cost around $150,000 to rent Trump’s ballroom.

oh ffs.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:35 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

So any more news on Flynn and the FBI? I've downed like 4 cups of coffee and I'm dying to know what the end of this story looks like.
posted by gucci mane at 4:35 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

sotonohito! Metafilter needs you!

It is imperative that you clearly and distinctly assert that nothing will come of this Flynn business, and if you're wrong you'll pay the terrible price of, say, enjoying a nice plate of brisket.

I'm so jealous of the metafilter politics thread celebrities.

I wish I could do something to get on the radar but all I ever manage to do is to proofread poorly and misuse apostrophe's.
posted by srboisvert at 4:37 PM on March 25, 2017 [66 favorites]

I'm no lawyer, but if he pardons himself and resigns what is to stop congress from putting him on a witness stand. He can't self incriminate and would probably open the door to a few dozen criminal and civil trials involving all sorts of friends and family.

Very rich old white men when facing trials or even the just need to testify tend to spontaneously develop 'serious' medical conditions that generate tremendous sympathy for them from the judicial system.
posted by srboisvert at 4:40 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

I wish I could do something to get on the radar but all I ever manage to do is to proofread poorly and misuse apostrophe's.

We see you, srboisvert. We see you.
posted by dis_integration at 4:42 PM on March 25, 2017 [29 favorites]

So any more news on Flynn and the FBI? I've downed like 4 cups of coffee and I'm dying to know what the end of this story looks like.

Sorry, you're going to have to wait until the next episode of The President to see what happens. And even worse they might delay it for a bit and just air reruns like they did with the travel ban subplot.
posted by milarepa at 4:42 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Donald's overwhelming and well-documented narcissism may preclude him from the "sick old man' defense, or at least make it more difficult for him to do it right.

And srboisvert, I am quite aware of your contributions, and your background as a grocer. (local store, or big chain like Kroger? no, can't be Kroger, they own Ralphs which did the opposite thing with apostrophes)
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:47 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

I remain scandalized, btw, at the obscene hypocrisy of the Republicans.

Stop being scandalized and start organizing to give Democrats a majority.

Look, the American government is very explicitly designed around the idea that you can't expect people in power to just do the right thing. The idea that people seek to preserve their own power is baked in. If you want to curtail the power of one branch of government, you need the power of another.

Do you think the ACA repeal failed because Republicans suddenly grew a conscience? It failed because angry voters threatened their access to power.

Republicans will never impeach Trump unless it's in their political interest to do so. So stop being shocked, and give them a reason to do so.
posted by dry white toast at 4:53 PM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

It's entirely possible to be both shocked and active.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:56 PM on March 25, 2017 [48 favorites]

If you're not both shocked and active, you're not paying attention.
posted by box at 5:01 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

It turns out that the Trump team version of back-channel encrypted communication is apparently a face to face meeting people openly refer to on Twitter. My inner cyberpunk is unimpressed.
posted by jaduncan at 5:01 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

It's entirely possible to be both shocked and active.
...better than radioactive...

Republicans will never impeach Trump unless it's in their political interest to do so. So stop being shocked, and give them a reason to do so.
I've told the story here multiple times of how I witnessed the Republican Party of California committing voter fraud in 1972. I've long said that "The Democrats are a corrupt political party; the Republicans are a criminal syndicate."
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

Stop being scandalized and start organizing to give Democrats a majority.

What, you think I just sit here and get the vapors? I'm angry as fuck.
posted by lydhre at 5:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [26 favorites]

The thing that I read (TTTIR) said the tell on Flynn flipping was him registering as a lobbyist in arrears.
posted by rhizome at 5:07 PM on March 25, 2017

Speaking which, if Flynn has flipped, drinks are on me. I'll just go get some ice.

If Flynn testifies against the Trump Cabal, I'm opening a bottle of Champagne with a goddamn saber.
posted by dis_integration at 5:10 PM on March 25, 2017 [37 favorites]

I'll just go get some ice.

Whatever you do, don't rely on anyone named Ramon to get it for you.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 5:10 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

The thing that I read (TTTIR) said the tell on Flynn flipping was him registering as a lobbyist in arrears.

That being part of the deal to avoid prosecution? A fig leaf of sorts?
posted by leotrotsky at 5:11 PM on March 25, 2017

Whilest all this is wonderfully exciting, I would like to remind you about your next president.
He's trampled on the rights of women, LGBTQ folks and the poor. Then there's the incompetence. Meet, quite possibly, the next president; Mike Pence.
posted by adamvasco at 5:11 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

Pence is a Manafort pick. I wouldn't assume in any way that he would come out unscathed, and actually suspect he very much wouldn't.
posted by jaduncan at 5:13 PM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

Pence is in this to his eyeballs. If Trump goes down he goes down too.

Of course if this happened pre-2018 that means President Ryan. That would be an improvement since he is an idiot Randite rather than a crazy manchild, a Russian stooge, or a Republic of Gilead fanatic. And the last week shows him to be completely incapable of moving legislation so that's good. I'm not saying this would be a good thing only that we'd be in normal amounts of shit rather than the unprecedented amounts we are in now.

Post-2018 maybe it would mean President Pelosi. MY BODY IS READY.
posted by Justinian at 5:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [49 favorites]

With Pence gone, fellow Republicans undo his work in Indiana
posted by robbyrobs at 5:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [25 favorites]

I really hope, once upon a time long ago, Paul Ryan held a monkey's paw and said, "I want to be president in the worst way..."
posted by prize bull octorok at 5:16 PM on March 25, 2017 [60 favorites]

Surely an enterprising District Attorney in California, say, could figure out something to charge in extremis.

They'd have to fight New York for it, and they would lose.

God, the poetry of New York getting to finish him. We birthed him, after all. It's our responsibility.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:17 PM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

Oh, and let's not forget that the current line is that Pence wasn't lying when he denied knowledge of Flynn's Russian contacts because Flynn lied to Pence. I would suggest that Flynn as the FBI's witness would have some potential impact on the viability of that claim.
posted by jaduncan at 5:19 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

They'd have to fight New York for it, and they would lose.

I would be okay with the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York getting the ball rolling. It's sort of their wheelhouse.
posted by Justinian at 5:21 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Yes, Pence sucks.

But how much did Gerald Ford get done?
posted by tobascodagama at 5:21 PM on March 25, 2017

However, keep in mind, Mike Pence is truly a very stupid, and very gullible man. He's a smooth talker because he was in radio, but that's all he does -- regurgitate other people's talking points, and be super-Christian in a spiteful way.

When he was in Congress he was widely known as the dumbest member of Congress. He didn't know the stock market could go down as well as up.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:21 PM on March 25, 2017 [73 favorites]

I don't think the presidency of a man picked by a convicted foreign agent is likely to be very effective. Just a guess.
posted by jaduncan at 5:23 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

No, don't kill him. Don't martyr him. Put his weak, flawed, corrupt true form on display, forever, as a warning and a joke. Turn him back into a punchline. Make him and everyone who followed him into pathetic clowns for children to laugh at.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:24 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

Stop being scandalized and start organizing

I saw a guy at a protest wearing this shirt:

Kvetch But Act

That photo of her on that article, yeesh.

I've said it before: the photo editors are having a ball, at least with D Trump. I'd love to see the photos that were rejected. M Trump is literally a professional at being photographed; at least she doesn't end up making a weird faces while her tiny fingers contort in the air.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:25 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Oh, and I also don't think that Manafort is the type of man to leave himself without dirt on either Pence or Trump. He's a Kremlin bagman in Eastern European politics. Kompromat is part of that; it wasn't that he played around in Ukrainian politics whilst getting under the counter cash payments by playing the wide eyed innocent.
posted by jaduncan at 5:29 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Speaking of Flynn and Russiagate, guess who was also at the January meeting between Flynn and Turkish officials?

Devin Nunes.

The jigsaw pieces continue to drift together as if of their own free will

Maybe information really does want to be free
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:30 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

If Flynn has something to offer I would imagine that either Manafort is screwed (if this is carefully limited) or everyone is screwed when/if they flip Manafort.
posted by jaduncan at 5:31 PM on March 25, 2017

Is Kayyem walking it back?

Last night, I noted that other Trump players named in recent stories have agreed to speak in front of the House Intel Committee and that Flynn has not. And I stated that it raises a question about whether he may have a deal with the FBI. Moreover, sources I have talked to in the field also are increasingly wondering the same thing. But, to be clear, I did not say on this segment that I have any confirmation that he is actually cooperating or that I have talked to anyone who does. My informed analysis of this case is based on my years of experience in the national security arena.

Facebook link
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:32 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

He didn’t know the stock market could go down as well as up.

Please provide a citation for this because I’m super interested in the context.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:32 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

Yeah, everything here is predicated on the if.
posted by jaduncan at 5:34 PM on March 25, 2017

AM Joy 3/25/17: Manafort’s growing connections with Russia. This week, new reporting came out saying Donald Trump’s former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, may have had a much closer relationship with Russia than originally discovered. The AM Joy panel [Yashar Ali, David Corn, Malcolm Nance & Sarah Kendzior] discusses why this could continue to be a problem for Donald Trump. Duration: 15:22
posted by homunculus at 5:34 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

"Please provide a citation for this"

The context was reforming social security:

At the time, one of the big liberal objections to privatization was that private accounts were far riskier than conventional Social Security — and retirees could be left in the lurch if their investments went south.

In his talk, Pence had a strange answer to this: He argued that the average rate of return on investments in the stock market would be so much larger than the average Social Security benefit that it would be simple for the government to guarantee nobody would end up with less money in the new private system than they would have been entitled to under the old system. After all, most people would do so much better under the new system that the government would only need to pay up to make the guarantee work for a small number of people.

I raised what I thought was an obvious objection to this: moral hazard. If you promise people they’ll get a bailout if their private investments go south, you encourage excessive risk taking and bigger losses in the future.

My expectation was that Pence would have some kind of answer to this: a technical solution or a plan for a regulatory fix or a promise to think about it harder or something. But he had nothing. He seemed to just not understand at all what the problem was. The idea that a government guarantee could change behavior appeared to be totally unfamiliar to him, even though in most cases it’s a bedrock of conservative economic policy thinking.

It was in local Indiana media at the time, too, although that's all rotted away if it was ever online. He really, deeply did not understand how the stock market worked; how averages work; or what moral hazard was.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:38 PM on March 25, 2017 [67 favorites]

I'm so jealous of the metafilter politics thread celebrities.

Yeah me too! I wish I'd come up with an awesome idea like baking a cake based on a political outcome so I could get some recognition in this thread.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 5:38 PM on March 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

You're a pterodactyl. You could poop on Trump's head.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:40 PM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

Putin meets with white nationalist leader in France one month before French election: Marine Le Pen, leader of France's white nationalist National Front party, met with a Donald Trump advisor in Trump Tower. Now she is meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow. There is a reason white nationalists have connections to Russia.

"The United States and our Western democratic allies are facing a global white supremacist nationalist movement supported by Putin with the goal of destroying civilization as we know it."
posted by homunculus at 5:41 PM on March 25, 2017 [40 favorites]

Trump’s Keystone plan: 35 jobs for America, millions of dollars to Russian oligarchs. Donald Trump's arguments for the Keystone XL pipeline, whether based on employment or energy, all fail to withstand scrutiny. And in fact, the only people who stand to benefit from the project are his friends in Russia.
posted by homunculus at 5:42 PM on March 25, 2017 [28 favorites]

And srboisvert, I am quite aware of your contributions, and your background as a grocer. (local store, or big chain like Kroger? no, can't be Kroger, they own Ralphs which did the opposite thing with apostrophes)

Wait, I'm from Michigan. Here we go to Kroger's. And Kmart's. And Meijer's. I guess because we want to think they are friends of ours?
posted by Preserver at 5:45 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Hoosier here. He's definitely Mike 'Dumb As a Pence Fost.'

Doesn't mean he's not also dirty. I mean, Trump's (incredibly) dumber than he is and is rotten straight through.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:45 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

Kroger's

I always pronounce this Kuh-Roger's

People look at you funny, try it out
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:47 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

You're a pterodactyl. You could poop on Trump's head

Uh if you read her profile you'll clearly see that pterodactyl is her married name.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:53 PM on March 25, 2017 [37 favorites]

Is there traction on Devin Nunes and the Flynn meeting? Also, given flynn's background how did it get this far? Has he always been an asset? Nunes? I mean we are in heavy conspiracy. There is like a shortage of foil at my house as a sculpting medium. Also, journalists must be tired from such a heavy, steady diet of WTF headlines, sub headlines, sub sub headlines, footnotes, asterisks and subtitles.
posted by jadepearl at 5:56 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Stone was the one that got away from Watergate. Not surprised his close business associate is just as slippery.
posted by Yowser at 6:02 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

tobascodagama: "Yes, Pence sucks.

But how much did Gerald Ford get done?"

He did whip inflation.
posted by octothorpe at 6:09 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Note: Roger Stone, as with everything he does, vastly overstated his involvement with Nixon.

The llamas have, once again, been disciplined.
posted by Yowser at 6:09 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Juliette Kayyem says, per sources, Michael Flynn may have flipped on Trump.

We had a small discussion about Seth Abramson in the last thread. He can be sensationalist. Notice the word "may" in the above sentence? He's fond of speculating.

We were discussing him because of this tweet storm he made: (MEGA-THREAD) The plot to sell America's foreign policy for foreign oil _and_ steal an election in the bargain began at the Mayflower Hotel.

Is he onto something? Maybe? Hard to know.
posted by futz at 6:09 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Remember when Spicey was accidentally tweeting his Twitter password, or whatever? I have high hopes for some amazingly dumb public mistakes when various WH staffers start trying to cover their tracks...
posted by TwoStride at 6:17 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

That Bloomberg page? Someone has finally captured the essence of watching the Trump presidency from outside the US. Well done.

Honestly, it's how some of us are watching from inside the US too...
posted by JoeXIII007 at 6:18 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ha. Thanks again spitbull, I was trying to be nice.
posted by futz at 6:20 PM on March 25, 2017

Even with a President Pence, I have hope that republicanism in general is starting to die.

Trump's base is not the traditional big business pro-corporate repub type. Granted those types saw through his lies and got on board with him eventually, but his believers are a mix of racists and low info populists (i.e. swamp-drainers). Fuck racists, but low info populists we can totally work with and get them on board with saner, less bullshitty populism.

I think there's a fundamental divide here between people who see politics as primarily economics, with a dash of other issues, and those of us who see politics as kind of a mix of everything.

Given a choice between a big business pro-corporate Republican and a fucking racist asshole who wants to MAGA by banning abortion and contraception *and* who doesn't even remotely grasp any other issues, I'd prefer the big business pro-corporate Republican. Because a big business type one can *reason* with. Hell, Romneycare is Obamacare, remember?

If the past few decades have shown anything, it's that you can't expect people with the same concerns as you to simply jump over to your side. Abortion rates are totally lower when contraception is covered -- but that hasn't stopped the right from wanting to ban that, too. Even many gun owners are onboard with reasonable gun regulations (why the hell are we conceal carrying inside of bars?), but that hasn't stopped the NRA from sabotaging any sort of gun reform. And the "traditional big-business Republicans" weren't the ones who gutted spending at UW Madison: that was the new wave of Republicans, headed by Scott Walker.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

if he pardons himself and resigns what is to stop congress from putting him on a witness stand.

Republican fuckery. Refuclickanery.

Remember when Spicey was accidentally tweeting his Twitter password, or whatever?

The Spiceweasel tweets are a numbers station.
/sigfile
posted by petebest at 6:45 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

And the "traditional big-business Republicans" weren't the ones who gutted spending at UW Madison: that was the new wave of Republicans, headed by Scott Walker.

Good points, but this one at least can be countered by media battling some of the "fake news" since a lot of the Scott Walker and Tea Party momentum actually had big corporate money backing behind their "grass roots." It may fall on deaf ears, the same way reasoning with anti-abortioners does, but it may be enough to flip some of the more libertarian independents.

I get that overall it makes more sense to focus on activating the apolitical left, but if there's an opening to help dissolve the right at the same time, I say go for it.
posted by p3t3 at 6:48 PM on March 25, 2017

Flynn's spokesperson says he is "not responding" to questions on if he is cooperating with the FBI per @lrozen. That's... interesting.

Yeah, Abramson's speculation is less interesting than the above.
posted by chris24 at 6:55 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

oh, it's Mike Pence time? let me bring back this gem from Rolling Stone that was posted in an earlier thread:

While Mike Pence was governor, his relationship with the Democratic minority in the legislature was crap. Someone on his staff suggested having the Democratic leaders over to the governor's mansion for dinner. The table was set for 20, but there were only around seven in attendance. One unlucky legislator stuck next to Pence tried to make conversation, but found even at dinner she couldn't shift Pence off his talking points. Gov. Pence shouted to his wife, Karen, his closest adviser, at the other end of the table.

"Mother, Mother, who prepared our meal this evening?"

The legislators looked at one another, speaking with their eyes: He just called his wife "Mother."

Maybe it was a joke, the legislator reasoned. But a few minutes later, Pence shouted again.

"Mother, Mother, whose china are we eating on?"

Mother Pence went on a long discourse about where the china was from. A little later, the legislators stumbled out, wondering what was weirder: Pence's inability to make conversation, or calling his wife "Mother" in the second decade of the 21st century.

posted by indubitable at 6:55 PM on March 25, 2017 [30 favorites]

or calling his wife "Mother" in the second decade of the 21st century.

Somehow it does not surprise me that a man who sees even his own wife as 'mother' has an issue with abortion (and quite probably female agency in general).
posted by jaduncan at 7:01 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

That said, I also like to imagine that he believes her to be an Weyland-Yutani Corporation AI.
posted by jaduncan at 7:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [32 favorites]

Not a fan of Maureen Dowd, but her latest column seems designed to piss off Trump mightily so what the hell, a link and the intro.

Donald, This I Will Tell You

You know how you said at campaign rallies that you did not like being identified as a politician?

Don’t worry. No one will ever mistake you for a politician.

After this past week, they won’t even mistake you for a top-notch negotiator.

I was born here. The first image in my memory bank is the Capitol, all lit up at night. And my primary observation about Washington is this: Unless you’re careful, you end up turning into what you started out scorning.

And you, Donald, are getting a reputation as a sucker. And worse, a sucker who is a tool of the D.C. establishment.

posted by chris24 at 7:05 PM on March 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

Trump aide Boris Epshteyn leaving White House, officials say (the NYT says he was fired)

Essentially, the entire CNN article is this one sentence:

A senior administration official confirmed Epshteyn's expected departure, saying, "We are exploring opportunities within the administration."

Jesus Quintana, they can't even comment on something this ephemeral competently. . . . Which is suspicious. Epshteyn, you'll recall was Eric "no, the other one" Trump's college pal, noted for his unprompted pugnacious sexist shitheadedness in media greenrooms and bars across the land.

Apropos of quite possibly everything, he was born in Moscow because sure, why not.
posted by petebest at 7:06 PM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

Man, it's Boris's all the way down.
posted by futz at 7:12 PM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

Republicans take up Russia-aligned attack on Soros ~ How Russian propaganda on the Balkans found its way onto congressional letterhead

A group of congressional Republicans is teaming up with Russia-backed politicians in Eastern Europe with the shared goal of stopping a common enemy: billionaire financier George Soros.

Led by Rep. Chris Smith of New Jersey and Sen. Mike Lee of Utah, the conservative lawmakers have signed on to a volley of letters accusing Soros of using his philanthropic spending to project his liberal sensibilities onto European politics. As Lee and other senators put it in a March 14 letter to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Soros’ Open Society Foundations are trying “to push a progressive agenda and invigorate the political left.”

It’s an accusation that’s being fomented and championed by Moscow.

-- Those complaints appear to be drawn from a document prepared by Stop Operation Soros that was distributed to members of Congress, including Senator Lee, in January. The 38-page dossier contains a number of implausible claims, including that USAID and Soros are aiming for “complete control over the media … with the final goal of establishing complete control over the country for Soros [sic] own benefit and implementation of radical policies.”

Soros is now an international boogie man in Hungary and Russia as well. More importantly, why are Republicans siding with Pro-Russia factions?
posted by futz at 7:21 PM on March 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

Oh god. We're not seriously having the "Pence is worse" conversation again, are we?

Every awful thing that Pence wants to do is something Trump will also gladly do. Trump, however, won't stop there. Trump's list of insane and criminal bullshit is much, much longer.

Pence will not gladly piss away every basic function of government on a whim. Pence will at least try not to embarrass us in front of foreign leaders. Pence will at least care about not looking racist, and at this point we should realize that does actually make a difference in the amount of harm done to people.

Pence will not piss away NATO and the rest of our alliances. That absolutely fucking matters.

Bannon will be out. Much if not all of Trump's cabinet of fuckwits will be out.

And while Pence screwed up Indiana hardcore, and while he turned a blind eye to an epidemic of HIV transmission, I want to point out that he did, eventually, allow for a limited needle exchange. He was late in coming to it and people will suffer for the rest of their lives for his stubbornness, but he was eventually shamed into doing the right thing. Can you imagine ever saying the same of Trump? Do you honestly think he'll ever be shamed into doing the right thing about ANYTHING?

Pence is awful. No argument. He'll hurt people. No question. He's also vastly better than what we've got now. He's a foe we can deal with. Harm reduction matters.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:24 PM on March 25, 2017 [72 favorites]

"Oh god. We're not seriously having the "Pence is worse" conversation again, are we?"

Oh, no, my argument was simply that Pence is SO STUPID that it's legit possible he doesn't know he was colluding with Russia. Pence is terrible, although (IMO) moderately less terrible than Trump.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

This conservative obsession with Soros is just bizarre.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:32 PM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

This conservative obsession with Soros is just bizarre.

If you think of him as (((Soros))), it's less confusing.
posted by chris24 at 7:34 PM on March 25, 2017 [83 favorites]

There is some precedent for right wingers to be obsessed with the idea of rich Jews.
posted by Justinian at 7:34 PM on March 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

curse you chris24
posted by Justinian at 7:34 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Yes. Who could identify some of the roots behind their dislike of this international financier with a global perspective also he is a Jew and a history of supporting democratic change in Eastern Europe and who doesn't like Putin?
posted by jaduncan at 7:36 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

This conservative obsession with Soros is just bizarre.

I's despicable white nationalism on full display and more projection.
posted by futz at 7:36 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Once again my upbringing by libertarians in the 80s is like a fun house mirror of our current reality because my first memories of hearing about George Soros from my parents was as a pro-democracy hero.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:38 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Once again my upbringing by libertarians in the 80s is like a fun house mirror of our current reality because my first memories of hearing about George Soros from my parents was as a pro-democracy hero.

You misrecall. We have never been at war with Eurasia.
posted by jaduncan at 7:39 PM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

I feel so naive. Just when I think my faith in humanity can't go any lower :(
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:40 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

George Soros is a tool of the Esperanto lobby. (Seriously, it's his native language.)
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:42 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

I feel so naive. Just when I think my faith in humanity can't go any lower :(

On the upside, it probably indicates that you're a good person raised by good people. As such, the dog whistle references aren't aimed at you; they don't work on you because you haven't been around or spread the unfiltered stuff. In a way, that's a compliment.
posted by jaduncan at 7:44 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

George Soros is a tool of the Esperanto lobby. (Seriously, it's his native language.)

Thank you, waitingtoderail, for that amazing dive into Wikipedia. The world is truly full of wonders.
posted by Andrhia at 7:53 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Wait, Seth Abramson went ALL CAPS about somebody else's reporting, though, correct? So subtract all the Abramson and you still have whatsherface citing "sources?"

Also you have to imagine just the possibility of Flynn flipping is changing the calculus for a few rats.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:54 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

So Trump tweets out that everyone should watch "Judge" Jeanine Pirro's show on Fox tonight. Weird, huh? Her opening? "Paul Ryan needs to stop down as Speaker of the House." She even finds it necessary to explain, "now I certainly have not spoken with the president about any of this.

I think this is what happens when these people think they're being clever.
posted by zachlipton at 7:54 PM on March 25, 2017 [92 favorites]

Oh FFS.

We are all frustrated Lisa Simpsons now.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:59 PM on March 25, 2017 [30 favorites]

Oh Jeanine Pirro. Bob Durst is the second-worst person in The Jinx.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:59 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

Realistically: with a Republican legislature, any Republican president sucks because without vetoes to keep them in check the legislature will do a significant amount of terrible things (although the AHCA clusterfuck gives me hope that they're not nearly as unified on the whole doing-terrible-things front as I'd feared). This is unfortunately what we're dealing with until 2018, no matter who that particular Republican president is, be it Trump or Pence or Ryan or the reanimated pen-holding fingers of Reagan.

The realms where the president seems most able to wreak definite havoc are: foreign policy, and anywhere the president feels assertive enough to try to throw their weight around with executive orders. On foreign policy pretty much everyone is better than Trump. An insult comic in character would be better at foreign policy than Trump, given his preternatural penchant for pissing off every other world leader he talks to. So that leaves the question of where a president might try to throw their weight around. And here, I'm kind of OK with Pence, because he's infamously feckless, waffley, and easily cowed. He has neither the bravado of a Trump nor the personal courage of Paul Ryan (OK, I wouldn't necessarily ping Ryan as brave per se, but he's shown some willingness to embrace risk and put his neck on the line), and coming in under a cloud with no real mandate I don't think he'd really rock the boat.

Also, nobody really likes him. Both Trump and Ryan have a charisma which apparently works on somebody (I don't get why, but I'm willing to take it as given). As far as I can tell, nobody has ever found Mike Pence charming or persuasive. The Dominionist right will tolerate him as a fellow traveler, but even they don't actually seem to have any more than a purely pragmatic appreciation for him.
posted by jackbishop at 8:00 PM on March 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

She even finds it necessary to explain, "now I certainly have not spoken with the president about any of this.

"Are you stealing a cookie?!"

". . . Nnnnoooooooo! . . . "
posted by petebest at 8:01 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

Technically true if she talked to Bannon or Miller.
posted by jaduncan at 8:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Offered without comment.

White supremacist Andrew Anglin, founder of the neo-Nazi website the Daily Stormer, condemned the racially-motivated murder of a black man in New York City, arguing it “does not represent White Supremacy” and warning the attack could lead to unfair discrimination against white supremacists.

posted by jaduncan at 8:05 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Finally we have reached the logical nadir as a man makes a #notallwhitesupremacists argument.
posted by jaduncan at 8:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [92 favorites]

Yowza.

So, what's language for, again?
posted by petebest at 8:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Hard to say
posted by Golem XIV at 8:08 PM on March 25, 2017 [24 favorites]

So Trump told us to watch Judge Jeanine tonight. Judge Jeanine told Paul Ryan he should step down.

Trump is using a Fox News presenter to do his dirty work.
posted by Talez at 8:10 PM on March 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

A gluten free cake says they haven't bothered to think about who could replace Ryan
posted by schadenfrau at 8:13 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

A gluten free cake says they haven't bothered to think about who could replace Ryan

gluten free cakes aren't reliable sources
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [95 favorites]

sadly they are not even reliable as cakes
posted by schadenfrau at 8:16 PM on March 25, 2017 [102 favorites]

gluten free cakes aren't reliable sources

Look I know Chris Christie isn't part of the inner circle but I'm sure he still gets tidbits.
posted by Talez at 8:16 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

So the GOP really hates each other right now, and it's spilling out in public. Some tweets:

@AustinScottGA08: "Mark Meadows betrayed Trump and America and supported Pelosi and Dems to protect Obamacare."

@justinamash (in reply): "Austin, thank God there are honorable congressmen like @RepMarkMeadows who aren't seduced by logical fallacies."

I've seen commentary that reps were refusing to greet each other in the hallway this week. How on earth are they supposed to make a deal to keep the government open and raise the debt limit when they're this furious at each other?
posted by zachlipton at 8:18 PM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Well let's give 'em some ideas. Whose career should we ruin? Tom Cotton? Wait.

Steve King.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:19 PM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

Well let's give 'em some ideas. Whose career should we ruin? Tom Cotton? Wait.

Steve King.

Don't even joke about that.
posted by dhens at 8:20 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

This was mentioned above but this is a more recent article and I feel it is important.

CENTCOM Investigates Whether U.S. Airstrikes Killed 200 Civilians In Mosul

-- Senior military and defense officials are investigating reports that scores of civilians — potentially nearly 200 — were killed in a U.S. airstrike in the Iraqi city of Mosul last week.

-- The strike comes in the same month as two other high-profile strikes in Syria, where the U.S.-led coalition is also fighting ISIS. In total, the three strikes have resulted in unconfirmed reports of upwards of 350 civilian casualties.

-- March could prove to be the deadliest month for civilians at the hands of U.S. airstrikes since the war began, potentially taking the tally to more than 1,000 civilians killed.

-- The dramatic uptick forced Airwars — a monitoring group which notes casualty numbers — to stop tracking Russian strikes and only focus on U.S. and coalition strikes that result in civilian casualty claims.

For the first time since Moscow's intervention in Syria, claims of civilian casualty deaths caused by the coalition outstripped claims against Russia, according to Airwars.

wtf is going on? I know trump promised this but I had faith that our military wouldn't be on board...not saying that they are...what am I missing? Does the military have to follow trump's orders if the orders violate international law? Would they? I'm mostly just thinking out loud and by no means want to derail the thread. I am sick about this. Fuck everyone and everything about this.
posted by futz at 8:20 PM on March 25, 2017 [43 favorites]

Mrs. Cake for speaker
posted by schadenfrau at 8:20 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

To be fair Ryan should step down. If you can't get a signature piece of legislation through the House even with a solid party majority, you're a bad speaker and you should feel bad. Sam Rayburn is rolling in his grave right now at the sheer incompetence. The thing is, there's nobody else who can replace Ryan, for the same reason that they can't repeal the ACA: the party is divided against itself and doesn't agree on anything but negative propositions. McCarthy can't even speak, so he can't be speaker! Who would they replace him with? They're so fucked!
posted by dis_integration at 8:20 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Of course it will be Steve King. The Freedom Caucus will push him, lose, and he will name himself Speaker In Exile ot something.

I'm not going to bet a cake on this, but I will just eat a goddamn cake on my own like a goddamn adult. Might even eat the entire thing if I can find some weed somewhere. That's easy now, right?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:25 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

wtf is going on? I know trump promised this but I had faith that our military wouldn't be on board...not saying that they are...what am I missing? Does the military have to follow trump's orders if the orders violate international law? Would they?

If they loosen up the rules of engagement, this is the logical end result even with well-meaning servicepeople who don't want to gun down innocents. The person pulling the trigger doesn't have to be a bloody-eyed murderer for this to happen. Hell, a lot of them probably think (with reason) that they're saving lives by being quicker to provide fire support to allies in trouble. They don't know who they're blowing up; they're just being given targeting info by people they rely upon.

If you add loose rules to the pressures of combat you're bound to get more civilian casualties.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:30 PM on March 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

Senator Chris Murphy has penned this disturbing article about US troops heading to the fight in Raqqa.

HuffPo: Trump Is Dragging Us Into Another War... And No One Is Talking About It

Without any official notification, Trump sent 500 new American troops into Syria, ostensibly to take part in the upcoming assault on the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa. News reports suggest this deployment may just be the tip of the iceberg, with some saying that the plan is for hundreds more American troops to be added to the fight in the coming weeks. No one actually knows how many troops are inside Syria now, because the administration has largely tried to keep the build-up a secret.

The money quotes point to the fact that Sleepy Rex Tillerson has no idea what the diplomatic strategy should be, and there are a range of military and political interests - Kurds, Turkey, Russia, Iran - all with a vested interest in the outcome. And a lot of guns.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [35 favorites]

I've seen commentary that reps were refusing to greet each other in the hallway this week.

I honestly prefer this seething honesty to the old-fashioned boys'-clubby comity out of congressional storytime and possibly true history, where everybody pretends to have a philosophy and constituents they care about but then after play-fighting for C-SPAN all day morning they meet up at Paul Ryan's gym for a round of crossfit and some jovial locker room talk about who is cuter, my intern or your twin logical fallacies. no! fistfights, I want to see claw marks, I want to see tears. when john boehner was still able, he was a good sacred sacrificial Speaker who shed all the House's common tears and drank all the House's common drinks because all he had inside him was a couple of massive tear ducts and a giant liver. he was a mighty man but he made them lazy, and all the remaining Republicans must drink and cry and snub one another ten times as hard apiece to try and make up for him now he is gone. Democrats can help with the drinking if they want but they must let their friends across the aisle go it alone on the weeping et cetera
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:37 PM on March 25, 2017 [34 favorites]

If Ryan were to step down or be forced out, and the rifts in the Republican party lead to different caucuses voting for different Republicans as protest votes, the Dems get to play kingmaker and angle for the most moderate option on the table while driving the wedge into the Republican party even further.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:41 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

Trump Is Dragging Us Into Another War... And No One Is Talking About It

I'd love to read HuffPo's incisive reporting on Yemen over the past several years.
posted by rhizome at 8:41 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

If you add loose rules to the pressures of combat you're bound to get more civilian casualties.

I don't think this is only an RoE issue; command are likely to have been told that target selection itself can be loosened. You can set up RoEs so that the pilot can only drop a 150lbs bomb on a single building, but if the building you are prepared to target is an ammo dump that has been intentionally placed next to lots of civilians you are going to cause a lot of casualties.
posted by jaduncan at 8:44 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

If you add loose rules to the pressures of combat you're bound to get more civilian casualties.

Especially in urban areas. Urban combat is difficult and dangerous, and it's almost impossible to avoid massive casualties even with the strictest rules of engagement. In a case like this, a conflict that is literally on the other side of the world, it's hard to see how the US's engagement can be justified. I mean, if it were due to the USA's concern for civilians you would think that they'd be putting more effort into humanitarian missions and accommodating refugees ...
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:44 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

I don't see any scenario under which a Republican becomes speaker with the help of Democratic votes. No realistic scenario anyway.
posted by Justinian at 8:45 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

I've seen commentary that reps were refusing to greet each other in the hallway this week. How on earth are they supposed to make a deal to keep the government open and raise the debt limit when they're this furious at each other?

These fuckheads can't even get their act together when they are getting along. They don't care about the debt limit. Was it Mnuchin who recently said that the debt ceiling was a silly concept? I hope that they implode upon themselves. They are against us ALL the time. They don't care about anyone but their corporate overlords. Fuck them upside down and sideways. I hope that they hate eachother and keep shitting in their communal sandbox.
posted by futz at 8:47 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

In a case like this, a conflict that is literally on the other side of the world, it's hard to see how the US's engagement can be justified.

Not really arguing, but what we're seeing here is the difference between rules that expect you to at least try to minimize civilian casualties vs. not having those rules at all. If American forces were actively trying to kill civilians, the body count would of course become astronomical overnight. What's going on now is the result of a change in how stringent those forces are about when to fire or not fire.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:49 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Does the military have to follow trump's orders if the orders violate international law?

I'm sure one of our current or former service members will either elaborate or correct me, but as far as I know the answer is something like: no, but you'll have to prove in a court-martial that you were right to refuse the order, and the judges will not be very sympathetic unless the order was extremely egregious.

I'd love to read HuffPo's incisive reporting on Yemen over the past several years.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:49 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

White supremacist Andrew Anglin, founder of the neo-Nazi website the Daily Stormer, condemned the racially-motivated murder of a black man in New York City, arguing it “does not represent White Supremacy” and warning the attack could lead to unfair discrimination against white supremacists.

No, that's not what he was doing, and RawStory got trolled. (Also, they really, really, really need to NOT link directly to racists. FFS, people, it's 2017.)

“White Supremacy is a religion of peace, and the overwhelming majority of White Supremacists are peaceful members of society who do not agree with stabbing random black people with swords,” he wrote. “The attack has nothing at all to do with the religion of White Supremacy.”

Justinian: I don't see any scenario under which a Republican becomes speaker with the help of Democratic votes. No realistic scenario anyway.

Would you commit to eating a cake if this scenario came to pass?
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:52 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

I will eat ten cakes if Democrats secretly promise secret support to enough different warring Republican factions to keep them all hopeful and not dropping out or forming coalitions right up until the vote, when all the Democrats pull the double cross and vote in a 100 percent united bloc for the sole Democratic candidate, who wins.

ten cakes
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:55 PM on March 25, 2017 [68 favorites]

He's mocking people who defend Muslims from Islamophobia after Islamist terror attacks. The message is, "Of course we're glad a black man was killed." It's not #NotAllWhiteSupremacists. It's #YesAllWhiteSupremacists.

You think his core argument is that white supremacists are essentially the same as Islamist terrorists? I mean, I can see the logic in your argument, but I feel like he's setting up two extremely bad options for himself.
posted by jaduncan at 8:56 PM on March 25, 2017

Higher tolerance for civilian casualties from carpet-bombing is what Russia is all about.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:58 PM on March 25, 2017

Is Ryan the one who would have to ask for impeachment? Also, if Ryan does step down, who becomes Speaker?
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 9:01 PM on March 25, 2017

You think his core argument is that white supremacists are essentially the same as Islamic terrorists?

Yes. The Islamophobes do not believe that Islam is a religion; they think it's a plot to take over the world and subject it to Sharia law. They view themselves as the defenders of Western civilization against Islam, and hence feel justified in retaliating against Muslims in kind.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 9:02 PM on March 25, 2017

Alternate theory about Judge Jeanine: Fox and Friends was running a banner promoting her show this morning: "Trump wiretap claims: stunning new details 9pm ET." Maybe he saw that, got excited and tweeted, and then she didn't have the goods and changed up her show to be about attacking Ryan?

If Ryan steps down, the House elects a new Speaker. This is the point where every pundit says in unison: "did you know, fun fact, the Speaker of the House does not need to be a Member of Congress."
posted by zachlipton at 9:06 PM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

Is Ryan the one who would have to ask for impeachment? Also, if Ryan does step down, who becomes Speaker?

Anyone can draft articles of impeachment. I believe the Judiciary Committee then votes on whether to send the articles of impeachment to the floor for a full House vote. So in practice it is, IIRC, the Judiciary Committee which "asks for" impeachment though that's a vast oversimplification.

If Ryan steps down there is a vote for the next Speaker. It is whoever can command the support of a majority of the House. Well, a majority those casting votes anyway. I suppose if enough people abstained someone could become Speaker without receiving the support of a majority of the entire House but I don't know that this has ever happened.
posted by Justinian at 9:07 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

If Ryan goes down the most likely scenarios are:

0) McCarthy or some other ding-dong gets it and loses it within a month. Carry on.
1) Someone like Newt Gingrich is made Speaker. Doesn't have to be a member of Congress.
2) There is no Speaker. MAGA! Drain the Swamp! (insert generic bullshit here)
3) A moderate Democrat is made Speaker.

Option 0 repeated like 10 times over the next year is probably the most likely option. But crazy stuff has been happening.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:09 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Does the military have to follow trump's orders if the orders violate international law?

I'm sure one of our current or former service members will either elaborate or correct me, but as far as I know the answer is something like: no, but you'll have to prove in a court-martial that you were right to refuse the order, and the judges will not be very sympathetic unless the order was extremely egregious.

The United States doesn't hand people over to the Hague for war crimes. The biggest reason we pulled out of Iraq when we did was the failure to secure a status of forces agreement from the Iraqi government that would protect our servicepeople from arrest & prosecution by Iraqi authorities. "International law" isn't really something the average person in the US military worries about. Or the generals, for that matter. It matters for PR and international relations, sure, but the odds of being held to account for violating international law are pretty remote.

US servicepeople, however absolutely are bound by US law and the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. That's where the whole decision of whether or not to follow an illegal order comes into play. When I was in basic, we had a very serious class -- actually the one class I remember the best -- where we talked about that. We were told, in no uncertain terms (I think this may be verbatim): "The price you pay for refusing an order you believe is illegal is nothing compared to the penalty you will face for carrying out an illegal order."

However, that was the Coast Guard, and it was 1994. We weren't at war. Education on this topic varies widely between services and between roles within those services.

You are totally, 100% expected to follow orders instantly, and you are also expected to think about what you're doing and refuse an illegal order. And you're expected to handle all that under the pressures of combat. Even when you're 18 and high school & basic training is the full extent of your education.

It is one of the most unfair expectations we place upon people in uniform, and we don't give it nearly enough attention.

But again, these strikes in Iraq, Syria, etc? Remember, the pilots dropping those bombs are at the end of a chain of people telling them where to shoot. They can't see who they're targeting. They have to rely on the guys feeding them targeting info to avoid killing innocents, and the problem is that chain can include people who aren't Americans and don't have the same interests or rules of engagement we do. And, again, even our own rules are eroding.

I have felt incredibly awful for active duty men and women ever since Cheetoh Mussolini was inaugurated, and this is only one of the reasons why.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:09 PM on March 25, 2017 [77 favorites]

Right, the decision making process has been spread around so much that responsibility is distributed. Or maybe attenuated. That doesn't mean that for a big enough fuckup the military won't find someone to blame. But it does mean that it's tough for any one person to be like "this is wrong and illegal". Because they only see their little part of the picture.
posted by Justinian at 9:17 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

or calling his wife “Mother” in the second decade of the 21st century.

Can I take the contrarian view that people should feel free to call each other whatever they want, no matter how dated or ridiculous, as long as both caller and callee are cool with it?
posted by Going To Maine at 9:22 PM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

ten cakes

Do you like cake? Because if you do I am not sure that is how it works...
posted by futz at 9:23 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can I take the contrarian view that people should feel free to call each other whatever they want, no matter how dated or ridiculous, as long as both caller and callee are cool with it?

We're speaking of the coerced-transvaginal-ultrasound-wand-for-victims-of-rape-and-incest dude, and this is an extremely basic example of how he constructs womens' identity.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:26 PM on March 25, 2017 [62 favorites]

oh, I thought how it worked was Fate is looking down at the thread [1] as she works away at her loom, reading all the comments, and sees mine and pauses. "oh," she says, "I wasn't going to do that at all and to make it come out right I will have to tear out a good portion of my weaving and start again. but I would very much like to see that woman eat ten cakes."

[1] get it? Fate gets it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:28 PM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

Metafilter: can I take the contrarian view
posted by cybertaur1 at 9:29 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

I suppose if enough people abstained someone could become Speaker without receiving the support of a majority of the entire House but I don't know that this has ever happened.

Every time I read speculation about Constitutional shenanigans I flash back to the story about Gödel and I wonder if this is part of what he had in mind.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:35 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ronald Reagan reportedly called Nancy "Mother". I'm just assuming he was emulating a 'role model', especially in the presence of 'The Opposition'.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:35 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's Norman Bates creepy and reduces his wife to a vessel. It completely grosses me out every time I read it. The repeated "Mother Mother" squicks me out. His dinner guests that evening were very disturbed by it as well and said so.

I'd say that I need a shower after reading that again but...
posted by futz at 9:37 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

I went to Pelosi and Speier's town hall today. Overall, a very supportive crowd (maybe 800 or so people), but things got testy over single-payer healthcare and whether Pelosi would support Conyers' HR 676 (Speier is a co-sponsor). She tried to walk the line of not supporting it while discussing how she's been for single-payer since before some of us were even born, which didn't exactly go over well. We eventually got a cameo from belligerent shouty man, who would repeat his act on several other issues, asking her if she'd support it or not. She said we should support state single payer plans. She also argued that the ACA is to the left of Medicare for All in some respects (e.g. catastrophic coverage), which isn't entirely untrue, but rather misses the mark on health care as a human right. Ultimately, she favored an approach of incrementalism, acknowledging that just maintaining what we have is most of the battle, while pushing for things like extending the ACA subsidies to 500% of the poverty line and an effort to address prescription drug prices. That's all swell, but since Medicare for All is a pie in the sky fantasy right now anyway, what the heck is wrong with just being for it? There's nothing wrong with having lofty ambitions while aiming for smaller things while working to keep people from tearing down what we have.

There was also a question where she was asked why she identified Obama and Clinton as leaders of the party when they're off on vacation and not Bernie Sanders. She missed the simple answer, which is to say that Sanders is not a leader of the Democratic Party because he is not a member, but agreed there are other leaders as well, eventually mentioning Ellison.

Pelosi also spoke about the extent to which "public sentiment matters," that a groundswell of public opposition is important in opposing things like the AHCA.

Speier continues to be very impressive. One name that keeps coming up from her, both briefly today and in the hearing on Monday, is Michael Caputo, who was fired from the campaign and has ties to Russia and Putin. She wants an independent inquiry on Russia and hinted at, without committing to anything, a Democratic House Intelligence Committee sit-in on the floor to demand one. Now that's something I can get behind! There's broad public support for an independent commission, and sitting in to get people to call their reps to demand one would have a huge impact. There's no good answer Republicans can give for why they would oppose this. I really hope she has a sit-in.

A final observation is that I can frankly see why some Democrats in the House might want a new leader: listening to Pelosi is exhausting, and she was in particularly tiresome form today. I snark, but she gave incredibly long-winded answers to questions that just didn't need that treatment. And they weren't detailed wonkish answers full of policy, but rather extended anecdotes about stuff like the time 10 years ago she met some Native Alaskans and then later she went to China and told the Chinese officials they had to come to Alaska and talk to them, for a question about the environment. I've heard her like this before, but this was really taking it to another level; I don't really even think she was trying to filibuster to limit the number of questions so much as just being herself. It was disappointing both because there were a lot of topics that didn't get addressed and because it became increasingly tedious as the 2+ hours wore on.
posted by zachlipton at 9:40 PM on March 25, 2017 [66 favorites]

I've seen commentary that reps were refusing to greet each other in the hallway this week. How on earth are they supposed to make a deal to keep the government open and raise the debt limit when they're this furious at each other?

So this is pretty terrifying with the CR set to run out on April 28th and the debt ceiling has to be raised again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:44 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

The repeated "Mother Mother" squicks me out.

Each time this line of conversation comes up on MeFi about Pence, I always immediately think of my great-uncle (my grandma's brother). He often uses "Mother", and he's an ok guy, so it can't be that terrible of a practice, I think.

And then 5 minutes later my brain catches up and reminds me that when he says "mother", it's because he's telling a story about my great-grandma... His actual biological mother.

So yeah, maybe that's a little weird if you use that to refer to your wife.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:51 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can I take the contrarian view that people should feel free to call each other whatever they want, no matter how dated or ridiculous, as long as both caller and callee are cool with it?

Of course you are allowed to feel that way and I will vehemently disagree. He is a Dominionist patriarchal piece of shit. Read the context of that article and tell me it's not creepy as fuck. Spoiler: it is creepy as fuck.

I’ve read the article. I think Pence has some quite reprehensible beliefs, and I think that his language is surely an artifact of his conservative, “traditional” leanings - but the eye-rolling is basically “Aaaah! Weird!” The beliefs are creepy. The language, in that it is something perhaps produced by those beliefs is a negative signifier. But it’s weird that the left is irked about what two people willingly do to each other in their own home.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:54 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

The language, in that it is something perhaps produced by those beliefs is a negative signifier. But it’s weird that the left is irked about what two people willingly do to each other in their own home.

OK, people who were actually there in the room were weirded out. Why don't you believe them?
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:00 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

The repeated "Mother Mother" squicks me out.

My late father-in-law spoke with his wife this way and I'll admit my initial reaction was along the lines of: "That's weird." I eventually settled on 1) maybe it's just a thing among certain midwestern sub-cultures, namely very religious and traditional people and 2) I think it's almost certainly "mother" as in "mother of our children" and opposed to "mother of me."

Anyway, seeing as Pence is enthusiastic about electrocuting young gay people until they commit suicide I think calling his wife "mother" is pretty far down on the list of things that bug me about the guy.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 10:04 PM on March 25, 2017 [47 favorites]

Yeah, I've known a number of folks in our school district that all call to each other as relational signifier, I.e., brother ,sister, mother, father. It's always kinda creeped me out, but I've never put a finger on why.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:08 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

The Speaker needs the majority vote of the chamber. Another round of voting takes place if they don't get one. In 1856, it took 133 rounds over two months.

It also takes a majority vote of the entire House to remove a Speaker, so even if they did somehow manage to elect a Democrat through some kind of comic mishap, it could be quickly undone.
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

Okay, we can move on from whether or not Mike Pence calling his wife Mother is creepy; both sides have been duly noted and thoroughly flagged!
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 10:26 PM on March 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

dammit now i have danzig in my head and he won't come out
posted by Existential Dread at 10:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

Okay if that dinner involved Mike Pence shouting "DO YOU WANNA BANG HEADS WITH ME?" I'd finally have something to appreciate about him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:32 PM on March 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

dammit now i have danzig in my head and he won't come out

blow your nose?
posted by futz at 10:33 PM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

There are preliminary caucuses where the Republicans and Democrats select their nominees, so all the fighting and vote swapping occurs in the caucus before the actual vote. Generally each party's members vote for the winner of their caucus vote during the official floor vote.

But even if there were some last minute rebellion among Republicans splitting their vote on the floor, Pelosi still could not get the required majority without Republicans crossing over the to other side. That's never going to happen. Effectively, the Democrats are just bystanders no matter how the Republicans decide to battle it out on their side or how many rounds of voting it takes because they are the only caucus large enough to eventually get a majority.
posted by JackFlash at 10:34 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

In 1856, it took 133 rounds over two months.

I really hope this is what they spend the next two months doing. Every second of infighting fail is one second closer to midterms without them destroying the entire country.

Although they also have to pass a budget, or at least a CR, and a debt ceiling increase, or I'll be taking an unpaid vacation along with 2 million of my closest federal friends. So.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:39 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

Okay but can we get Jim Ross on C-SPAN to announce it?

"BAH GAWD KING DO YOU BELIEVE THIS THAT'S BARACK OBAMA'S MUSIC WHERE DID HE COME FROM?!"
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 10:40 PM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

Democrats Introduce ‘MAR-A-LAGO’ Act to Force Trump to Provide Visitor Logs

The "Making Access Records Available to Lead American Government Openness Act" — or MAR-A-LAGO Act — would require the Trump administration to disclose the names of anyone who visits the White House or "any other location at which the President or the Vice President regularly conducts official business."

"He basically moved the office of the presidency," said Richard Painter, vice chair of the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, or CREW. "Under those circumstances, in which taxpayers are paying for you to do government work and for your Secret Service protection, they're entitled to know what private parties are moving in and out of there."

This is a fucking no brainer. Southern White House and Winter White House. Soon to be known as the Easter/Spring/May Day White House [Mayday SOS].

No brainer. Won't pass. TЯUMP's crimes will be broadcast on Instagram and twitter though so there is hope.
posted by futz at 11:02 PM on March 25, 2017 [41 favorites]

The Speaker needs the majority vote of the chamber. Another round of voting takes place if they don't get one. In 1856, it took 133 rounds over two months.

Maybe it's pedantic but like I said in my original comment, it's a majority of the votes cast rather than a majority vote of the Chamber. So if a bunch of people abstain one could technically become Speaker with less than a majority of the entire House.

For example, from the Congressional Research Service.

To be elected, a candidate must receive an absolute majority of all the votes cast for individuals. This number may be less than a majority (now 218) of the full membership of the House because ofvacancies, absentees, or Member s voting “present.”

posted by Justinian at 11:24 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

If Ryan steps down, the House elects a new Speaker. This is the point where every pundit says in unison: "did you know, fun fact, the Speaker of the House does not need to be a Member of Congress."

Well, 45 does have a background in reality TV. Maybe you could be the next Speaker.

My uncle (a junior named after Pop) had his own nickname.

Like... Uncle Junior? Everyone, I think we have MeFi's own Tony Soprano in this thread.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:27 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

(Note that while pedantic it is relevant to current times since John Boehner himself was actually elected with 216 votes, less than the 218 which would constitute a majority of the full House. This is my justification for what I probably would have said anyway.)
posted by Justinian at 11:31 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't believe Ryan will step down when he's this close to being president. I don't think he'd stand a chance in the primary system so this is his only shot.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:20 AM on March 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

So, it's clear that the entire "Birther" movement was to advance the Russian interest of trying to destabilize democracy, by questioning the legitimacy of Barack Obama's presidency.

The question now is, "Was Donald J. Trump acting on orders from the Kremlin to promote their lies that Obama wasn't a legitimate President, or was he only a "Useful Idiot" spreading disinformation given him by his Russian handlers?"

Man, I bet those Rand analysts back in the 60's who worked through these scenarios never thought they'd actually be used IN THE USA. I bet the Intelligence Community is glad they have the "What to do if The President is a Russian Spy" flowcharts, too. ( Like the guy with the football? Never give The President the Football. In fact, since Trump is compromised by Russia, do they even let him near the REAL codes? )
posted by mikelieman at 12:26 AM on March 26, 2017 [48 favorites]

In fact, since Trump is compromised by Russia, do they even let him near the REAL codes?

This is the kind of thing that's hard to test - how would any president know if the codes they get are real? Maybe they all get a card with numbers on it, and when you put them in the machine all that happens is a little flag with BANG on it pops up.
posted by Dr Dracator at 12:33 AM on March 26, 2017 [29 favorites]

Yes, Kremlin involvement would certainly make the way the whole birther thing spread make more sense. You just need a few people to keep repeating something loudly and people think it's something that needs to be answered - like Her Emails, for instance.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:09 AM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

You think his core argument is that white supremacists are essentially the same as Islamist terrorists? I mean, I can see the logic in your argument, but I feel like he's setting up two extremely bad options for himself.

Anglin's bit is about attacking the media. Essentially, he's arguing that when a white person does it, the media acts like it represents all white supremacists, but when a self-identified Muslim commits an act of violence, the media falls over itself to absolve Islam.

It's aimed at an audience that thinks both #NotAllWhiteSupremacists *and* thinks #YesAllMuslims. The reason it's hard to parse is that you have to be deep into the racist asshole version of doublethink to believe both of those things at once.
posted by kewb at 2:50 AM on March 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

Overseas applications to US colleges are down 39%. By my estimate, that's about 400,000 visitors spending about $12 billion on tuition, plus whatever else for living expenses and tourism. That's a lot!

Survey Finds Foreign Students Aren’t Applying to American Colleges
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:00 AM on March 26, 2017 [14 favorites]

Yonatan Zunger clearly sets out Russiagate.
From Russia, With Oil.
Explosive Details in the Trump-Russia Investigation.
posted by adamvasco at 4:36 AM on March 26, 2017 [15 favorites]

Overseas applications to US colleges are down 39%.

It turns out that that is the world's worst headline and what they meant is that applications are down at 39\% of colleges.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:09 AM on March 26, 2017 [29 favorites]

Overseas applications to US colleges are down 39%.

Nope. According to that report: "Applications from international students from countries such as China, India and in particular, the Middle East, are down this year at nearly 40 percent of schools..." [my bold]
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:22 AM on March 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

No direct linkable cite, but my brother works in the leadership of a large MBA program in Australia, before that in the UK. Enrolments are abandoning the USA and the UK (mainly due to the loss of the two year work visa changed a few years back.) The bleed in the USA is saturating many Australian programs. Thanks tRump, you're helping fund my family's new home.
posted by michswiss at 5:35 AM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

Several academic conferences I'm involved with have discussed not hosting in the US until we get a new administration. Even more money and brainpower out the door.
posted by codacorolla at 5:59 AM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump has stuffed his Cabinet with tyrants, zealots and imbeciles – all bent on demolishing our government from within
Trump the Destroyer
posted by robbyrobs at 6:01 AM on March 26, 2017

Yesterday DJT blamed first the Democrats then P. Ryan for the death of the healthcare bill. This morning's tweet:

Democrats are smiling in D.C. that the Freedom Caucus, with the help of Club For Growth and Heritage, have saved Planned Parenthood & Ocare!

Who else can he try to pin this failure on?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:05 AM on March 26, 2017 [19 favorites]

guys I'm trying to keep up, I really am, but in the context of gov't shutdown, what does CR mean?
posted by yoga at 6:14 AM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

Politico: Need to reach Trump? Call Rhona.: "The president's acquired a White House staff, but his old friends still prefer to go through his longtime Trump Tower assistant."

The president has been resisting the isolation of the White House by spending his weeknights making phone calls to old friends – a kitchen cabinet he relies on, to the irritation of some staff, including Priebus. Yet people who have Trump’s cell phone number say they’re wary of abusing that privilege and instead flag their interest in talking by passing on messages through Graff.

“Do you know the number of people who have his cell phone?” said a person who has the president’s number. “It’s a joke.”

Aside from the ridiculousness of this, how about the security implications of the rotating cast of characters he keeps talking to on his old cell phone?
posted by zachlipton at 6:14 AM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

guys I'm trying to keep up, I really am, but in the context of gov't shutdown, what does CR mean?

Continuing resolution -- let's just keep spending like we have been for another X days, or until we do a set of real appropriations bills.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:17 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

Continuing Resolution link here.
posted by taz at 6:18 AM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

It's astonishing how little he cares. QFT. One can say whatever about former presidents, but at the very goddamn least they cared about the country and its citizens. 45 does not care about:

* actually knowing the content of a health care bill to the point where he literally did not comprehend that because some found it far too damaging and others not damaging enough, it would be impossible to negotiate
* Russia, Russia, Russia
* the very notion that POTUS really shouldn't be suggesting a former POTUS broke the law and then that epically stupid Nunes move that everyone saw through
* the staggering and outrageous taxpayer burden to keep Melania in NYC
* ditto the Florida trips
* ditto his children who are out there trading his presidency for bucks
* releasing his tax returns
* the actual, genuine effect of TWO Muslim bans, both found illegal
* instead of presidenting, needing to go to rallies so he could feel loved again
* horrifying ineptitude of putting his family members, people with ZERO govt experience, into high-level government positions because he literally has no idea how government works
* ditto with Cabinet positions, substitute billionaires for family members
* this ridiculous golf thing. YEARS of attacking Obama for doing something and then, within weeks, doing it so much more that it's mind-boggling and not giving one sh*t
* the US steel and jobs promise for pipelines. Russian steel and 35 new jobs
* the wall that Mexico would pay for. Except now it's in the US budget

* And oh, the LYING. The whoppers that pour from his facehole are beyond ridiculous. Everybody knows he's lying -- Time did a cover story about what a liar he is and yet there's little national outrage that normal people, let alone people with positions of supposed power, DON'T FREAKIN' LIE 24/7

He was delusional and that was scary, but now he's delusional with incontestably historically low approval ratings, AND he's angry. My genuine fear is that he's going to try to do something, anything to feel popular again. Something like attacking another country with nuclear weapons because he doesn't see people. He only sees himself and he is stone cold unstable.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:18 AM on March 26, 2017 [73 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
Democrats are smiling in D.C. that the Freedom Caucus, with the help of Club For Growth and Heritage, have saved Planned Parenthood & Ocare!

Is this his first factually accurate tweet?
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:33 AM on March 26, 2017 [53 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump Democrats are smiling in D.C. that the Freedom Caucus, with the help of Club For Growth and Heritage, have saved Planned Parenthood & Ocare!

"Let them fight." /Ken Watanabe - Godzilla.
posted by bluecore at 6:40 AM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

According the the Sunday Times (UK), Trump literally handed Merkel a bill for NATO dues at their meeting:

Donald Trump handed the German chancellor Angela Merkel a bill — thought to be for more than £300bn — for money her country “owed” Nato for defending it when they met last weekend, German government sources have revealed.

The bill — handed over during private talks in Washington — was described as “outrageous” by one German minister.
posted by chris24 at 6:49 AM on March 26, 2017 [62 favorites]

One name that keeps coming up from her, both briefly today and in the hearing on Monday, is Michael Caputo,

Yeah in that blog post linked yea many threads ago that listed all of Twitler's links to Putin, Michael Caputo stuck out for some reason that I can't exactly remember. Per this Nov 7 (yow) dailybeast longform,

THE PUBLICIST
Trump recruited Michael Caputo to help run his New York primary. The state was crucial to Trump since it is his home state, and losing there could have seriously hurt his ability to rally the party.

Caputo was director of media services for the Bush-Quayle campaign in 1992 and was assistant director of the Radio and Television Correspondents Gallery for the House of Representatives before that. But since then, Caputo’s activity has been limited to public relations, and much of it involved Russia.

Caputo lived in Russia throughout the 1990s, the period of time after the Soviet Union crumbled, when state-owned property was being redistributed and consolidated in the hands of Russia’s most powerful oligarchs. Caputo was under contract for Gazprom Media. And one goal of Caputo’s contract with Gazprom Media in 2000 was to improve Vladimir Putin’s image in the United States, as he admitted to his hometown paper, The Buffalo News.

Prior to that, Caputo’s work in Russia was arguably more anodyne. He traveled there in 1994 as a staffer for the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), which played a role fostering a capitalistic and democratic society in Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. His primary interest was in assisting Russia in its transition from communism to capitalism. He married a Russian, left the government, went into business, and watched his company fall apart as the ruble crashed. Upon returning home to the United States he started a PR company, Rainmaker, which is when he won the Gazprom contract. “I’m not proud of the work today.”

G.H.W. "October Surprise / Iran-Contra" Bush-Quayle (ugh) -> Gazprom -> Putin -> Trump.
Mmmhmm. Checks out. Let's bring him in.
*Dragnet theme*
posted by petebest at 6:53 AM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

The #GOPDnD trend on the Twitter is amusing:

DM: The Obamacare Dragon steps from the cave.
GOP: I slay it.
*rolls a 3*
DM: A miss.
GOP: I give up.
DM: The dragon saves the town.

---

Trump: I roll a 20.
GM: It clearly says 3
Trump: Highest role since Reagan.
#GOPDnD

---

DM: A barbarian killed everyone in the tavern.
PC: An isolated incident.
DM: A drow was caught w/ a crossbow.
PC: BEGIN THE PURGE.
#GOPdnd

posted by octothorpe at 6:56 AM on March 26, 2017 [67 favorites]

Caputo lived in Russia throughout the 1990s

Is there anyone in the Trump administration who hasn't had some kind of relationship with post Soviet Russia? Like a single person?
posted by dis_integration at 6:56 AM on March 26, 2017 [29 favorites]

The Murdoch rag is behind a paywall.
Independent
Donald Trump printed out made-up £300bn Nato invoice and handed it to Angela Merkel.
posted by adamvasco at 6:58 AM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

Donald Trump printed out made-up £300bn Nato invoice and handed it to Angela Merkel.

Merkel can't just take her ball and go home by withdrawing from NATO because that's basically what Putin helped Trump win the presidency for. She has to literally sit there, smile, and take whatever that fucking blowhard shits on her with because that's what the de facto leader of Europe has to do right now.
posted by Talez at 7:07 AM on March 26, 2017 [14 favorites]

Per the medium article recently linked, Flynn is also under a *separate* investigation for illegally working for Russia. Separate from the Turkey brouhaha.

He is also under investigation by the Army as to whether he was being paid (illegally) by the Russian government in 2015.

I also didn't know about "the Mayflower Meeting", due to eschewment of Twitting and pooh-poohing of Abramson's tweets here but if true:

The “Mayflower Meeting” was an April 27th meeting at the Mayflower Hotel, immediately before Trump gave his first foreign policy speech. In this speech, written by Russian lobbyist Richard Burt, Trump promised to “make a deal under my administration that’s great for America but also good for Russia.”

The speech, and the meeting before it, were organized by Trump’s newly-minted campaign chair Paul Manafort and Jacob Heilbrunn, the event coordinator for the Center for the National Interest, a conservative think-tank closely aligned with the Kremlin.

The meeting was a 24-person “cocktail hour” held in the Mayflower’s VIP Senate Room. Trump was there, and according to Heilbrunn, so were (now Attorney-General) Jeff Sessions, Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner, Trump’s previous campaign chair Corey Lewandowski, Iran-Contra figure (!) Bud McFarlane, and Paul Manafort. Also present were four ambassadors — from Russia, Italy, Singapore, and the Philippines — and key figures from Rosneft, Russia’s state oil company. (The Philippines are one of Rosneft’s primary expansion targets for coming years.) (emphasis mine, although (!) was in the original)

Iran-Contra! Comin' back! Zombie Space Reagan, y'all. We didn't kill it right.

The allegation is an explicit quid pro quo: Trump would as President further Russian interests, eliminating oil sanctions and ratifying Russian control of parts of Ukraine, in exchange for 19% of Rosneft and Russian intelligence assistance in winning the election.

We have puppet show, Houston! "You sold us out, Conover!"
posted by petebest at 7:11 AM on March 26, 2017 [25 favorites]

A quick technical aside for those of us with melting phones: using the "preview" window to type comments does not lag.
Hit preview, comment, preview, post.
posted by petebest at 7:16 AM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

Donald Trump printed out made-up £300bn Nato invoice and handed it to Angela Merkel.

that's something that's going to cost this country, bigly - when the right time comes, merkel, or someone, will make damn sure of it
posted by pyramid termite at 7:16 AM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

We have puppet show, Houston!

no puppet show! you're the puppet show!
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:18 AM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

Donald Trump printed out made-up £300bn Nato invoice and handed it to Angela Merkel.

i think the weirdest part of this is Trump writing up a bill in British currency to hand to the German goverment
posted by indubitable at 7:20 AM on March 26, 2017 [30 favorites]

[dunkies] Time to make the Europawehr... [/dunkies]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:22 AM on March 26, 2017

that's something that's going to cost this country, bigly - when the right time comes, merkel, or someone, will make damn sure of it

Someone's going to give him a bill for the 0.7% GDP Foreign Aid target.
posted by MattWPBS at 7:23 AM on March 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

The FBI investigation’s greatest risk is that the FBI, and the prosecutors who would pursue a case, ultimately report to Attorney-General Sessions, and one can expect substantial open and covert pressure from the administration not to release any damaging information. (It is fair to suspect that such pressure already exists, and may be related to the unusually high number of leaks from that investigation.)

Independent investigation is the ONLY way to get where we're going. Otherwise they get away with it.

Dems, (and fish) do your duty!
posted by petebest at 7:26 AM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

Handing Cold War reparations bill to Germany, Import fees to protect jobs. Trump is determined to repeat every stupid decision from history.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:28 AM on March 26, 2017 [37 favorites]

I doubt Merkel has enough respect for Trump to be offended by anything he does. I like to imagine she just smiled, the way you do with a particularly dumb child, and perhaps spoke to the diplomatic core in German while 45 preened.

That's about it. The best interests of the United States at this point is the public purging of everything DJT has done since taking office, and apologizing for our temporary incompetence.
posted by mikelieman at 7:37 AM on March 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

That's about it. The best interests of the United States at this point is the public purging of everything DJT has done since taking office, and apologizing for our temporary incompetence.

Didn't we already do this in 2009?
posted by Talez at 7:41 AM on March 26, 2017 [22 favorites]

Donald Trump handed the German chancellor Angela Merkel a bill — thought to be for more than £300bn — for money her country “owed” Nato for defending it when they met last weekend, German government sources have revealed.

Little known fact: In the history of NATO, only one country has ever called upon the other member states to come and defend it. And that country was the US.
posted by sour cream at 7:43 AM on March 26, 2017 [85 favorites]

Didn't we already do this in 2009?

In 2009 we were "looking forward, not backward." If there is a "forward" this time around, it will likely involve truth and reconciliation commissions at the very least.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:46 AM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

Didn't we already do this in 2009?

A world wide Democratic apology tour is now standard after every Republican administration.

Republicans get elected, fuck up the world for 4 years, public votes them out, then blames Democrats for not fixing everything fast enough, votes in Republicans, who fuck everything up more.

We should apologize to the world for Republicans, and our own stupidity and broken "democratic" system that keeps allowing them to take power.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:50 AM on March 26, 2017 [15 favorites]

I am guessing this line from Michael D. Shear's piece in today's NYT stretches the use of indirect quotation but I am delighted to see it anyway:

"As Mr. Trump retired to the White House residence, he sounded tired in every way, including in spirit, his advisers said. There was a weariness about him that had not been present a day earlier."

My new proposed six-word slogan: ...Don't you think he looks fired?
posted by miles per flower at 7:51 AM on March 26, 2017 [19 favorites]

In 2009 we were "looking forward, not backward." If there is a "forward" this time around, it will likely involve truth and reconciliation commissions at the very least.

We can't look forward if there's a next time. We have to deal with the treasonous Republican cancer. If not, the next Republican ur-Hitler won't be as incompetent as Trump. And there's a long way to go still with plenty of time for this one to blow up the world.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:53 AM on March 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

"...this time around, it will likely involve truth and reconciliation commissions..."

For Nixon and Reagan, crime was a means to the presidency. For Trump, the presidency is a means to crime. This time there must be heads on pikes.
posted by klarck at 7:55 AM on March 26, 2017 [35 favorites]

It turns out that that is the world's worst headline and what they meant is that applications are down at 39\% of colleges.

It's not just the world's worst headline, it's even more misleading than first glance. You can get a PDF of the 5-page summary here.

It turns out that 39% of schools report a decline but 35% of schools report an increase and 26% report no change. This seems kind of random. The only way to determine if this is significant is to compare these results to previous years changes. For example if few schools have ever had decreases in the past, if the trend has always been up, this might be a significant change. But you can't tell from this report summary which just compares this year to last year.
posted by JackFlash at 7:59 AM on March 26, 2017 [16 favorites]

I doubt Merkel has enough respect for Trump to be offended by anything he does

If I were Merkel I would frame that thing immediately and hang it up somewhere I walked past every day, because it would make me laugh every single time.

Also, seriously, WTF? I could see the president* making a big public hooha about presenting Germany with a bill, because press & campaign promises. But handing it to Merkel in private? Is it supposed to be intimidating? Did he think she was gonna pass it on to the German Treasury and come back with a counter offer? Did he think she was gonna whip out a checkbook then and there? Ask if he takes AmEx?

Sooooooo dumb. . . .
posted by soundguy99 at 8:01 AM on March 26, 2017 [74 favorites]

> Is there anyone in the Trump administration who hasn't had some kind of relationship with post Soviet Russia? Like a single person?

Is there anyone in the Trump administration who can be verified giving Aid and Comfort to the U.S. and its citizens? Like a single person?
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 8:04 AM on March 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

"As Mr. Trump retired to the White House residence, he sounded tired in every way, including in spirit, his advisers said. There was a weariness about him that had not been present a day earlier."
HAHA! Hey Trump you think its bad now?? It has not even been your first 100 days!!!
posted by robbyrobs at 8:12 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

I doubt Merkel has enough respect for Trump to be offended by anything he does. I like to imagine she just smiled, the way you do with a particularly dumb child

Which recalls this photoshop.
posted by JackFlash at 8:12 AM on March 26, 2017 [15 favorites]

I think this is what happens when these people think they're being clever.

I've said to my fellow Star Trek nerds that we are now living through a Le Carré novel written by a Pakled.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:16 AM on March 26, 2017 [15 favorites]

Also...

I will eat ten cakes [...]

I will eat forty cakes.

And that's terrible.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:17 AM on March 26, 2017 [18 favorites]

Trump is golfing again today. Don't work too hard, sir.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:18 AM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

Kremlin critic detained in tense anti-corruption protests

You know, I'm wondering if Putins alleged universal popularity Isn't all that.
posted by Artw at 8:36 AM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

So that part about how Trump "promoted Pirro's show on Twitter 'because he loves Judge Jeanine' and wanted to do her a favor", that's barely worth a mention now? The president and the favors. Not even pretending a little.

Also, of COURSE his mentioning the show and the content of the news piece was a coincidence. Bigly coincidence.
posted by Glinn at 8:39 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump is golfing again today. Don't work too hard, sir.

Luckily there are no problems in the world, so the President has time to work getting on his PGA tour card.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:42 AM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

that's barely worth a mention now?

It's a minor crime in the face of dozens and dozens of larger crimes, unfortunately. Something that would be ridiculous to see on its own, but just seems so much smaller than Trump fundamentally misunderstanding how NATO works and printing off a fucking bill for hundreds of billions of dollars that he made up to hand to Angela Merkel.
posted by flatluigi at 8:45 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

see, trump is proving to the american people that he's still an outsider who is going to fight washington by pissing off every political faction he can, including the people who support him

wile e donnie, political genius
posted by pyramid termite at 8:46 AM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

BREAKING: Trump to announce arrest of Moose and Squirrel, in major developing story [fake]
posted by thelonius at 8:53 AM on March 26, 2017 [13 favorites]

Do you think he handed her the bill like a middle school boy handing a girl a note that says:

"Do you like me? Check one

Yes
No
Maybe"
posted by Groundhog Week at 8:56 AM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

via pool: At 11:04a Trump arrived at Trump Natl Golf Club in VA.

At 11:37a pool is told Trump already had 3 meetings and is going back to WH.

Weird.

Is it too rainy to golf today in Virginia or something? Or maybe Donald had too much meatloaf last night?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:00 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump’s War on Terror Has Quickly Become as Barbaric and Savage as He Promised.
posted by adamvasco at 9:05 AM on March 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

Luckily there are no problems in the world, so the President has time to work getting on his PGA tour card.

Surely in an ideal world Trump virtually never leaves the links.
posted by jaduncan at 9:06 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Do you think he handed her the bill like a middle school boy handing a girl a note

No, it reads more as something a sleazebag dipshit businessman would consider a good negotiating tactic. It's of a piece with the endless stories of him stiffing vendors for his real estate projects, like if he presents an outrageous bill or refuses to pay, the weak party across from him might just cave in and accept his terms rather than get into an expensive legal battle that they don't have the resources to win. It doesn't matter that this is a major European power, because Trump is our stupidest president in history and this is all he knows how to do.
posted by indubitable at 9:07 AM on March 26, 2017 [44 favorites]

Trump’s War on Terror Has Quickly Become as Barbaric and Savage as He Promised.

Weird thing is he's not even publicizing it. You'd expect him to be waving it around like crazy to distract from his at-home disasters, but there's not a peep.
posted by Artw at 9:10 AM on March 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

I am going to devour Merkel's autobiography of this time whenever it comes out. I hope that it comes with some uniquely German way of insulting people.

Like "der Trumpeltier"?
Or "Trumpelstielzkin"?
posted by sour cream at 9:12 AM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

via pool: At 11:04a Trump arrived at Trump Natl Golf Club in VA.

At 11:37a pool is told Trump already had 3 meetings and is going back to WH.

Do you think maybe he believes the WH is bugged, and so is having his meetings at locations offsite for that reason?
posted by jferg at 9:13 AM on March 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

Someone just posted this on Instagram from Trump's golf club. POTUS appears to be watching Golf Channel with 2 other people.

Do you think he's bored already?
posted by Artw at 9:18 AM on March 26, 2017 [16 favorites]

Someone just posted this on Instagram from Trump's golf club. POTUS appears to be watching Golf Channel with 2 other people.

...nevermind.
posted by jferg at 9:20 AM on March 26, 2017 [19 favorites]

Weird thing is he's not even publicizing it. You'd expect him to be waving it around like crazy to distract from his at-home disasters, but there's not a peep.

Someone has probably decided that the leadership should do as much as they can in this area unless and until political resistance is created by other parties. I suspect that Mattis and the military leadership are also more prone to do their business quietly* than the less competent members of the cabinet.

*see also: KRS.
posted by jaduncan at 9:21 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

This is actually a quote from an article posted to CNN before the bill was abandoned but it's so toothsome that i must share:

The President is said to be "agitated" by the process, an aide said, which he thinks is all "political."

ya think?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:24 AM on March 26, 2017 [58 favorites]

I hope that it comes with some uniquely German way of insulting people.

May I suggest that Rheinmetall makes what would be truly unique insult-delivery mechanisms?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:26 AM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump may bypass hardline conservatives on tax, White House says
Speaking on "Fox News Sunday," Priebus held out the possibility of working with moderate Democrats as well as Republicans to pass other aspects of Trump's agenda, such as his proposed budget, the revamp of the tax code and a renewed effort at healthcare reform.

Now is when Pelosi has to show that she's still the leader. If they're floating this out there already, Democrats can have huge leverage to withhold anything resembling a win for Trump, just like the Teahadists did to Obama. With the added bonus of having the more popular and effective position on almost every area of substantive policy. But she has to keep the Republican Wing of the Democratic party from selling out every Democratic priority in the name of bipartisanship. No budgets that defund Planned Parenthood and the EPA. No zeroing out every arts and science program in sight. No unpaid-for tax cuts. No votes for a sell-off of public lands disguised as an infrastructure bill.

Democrats should be standing by ready to help them keep the lights on and raise the debt ceiling, but not at the expense of passing a punitive budget. And that's about all. Their floor should be the status quo. If they want cooperation, try actually governing for 100% of the country instead of 46% or even 27%.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:28 AM on March 26, 2017 [47 favorites]

More moments of honesty from the right, this time from the former managing editor of Redstate and current managing editor of the Blaze.

@LeonHWolf
And now for a few words about how it is already obvious that Trump is a much less effective political leader than Obama was. 1/
In light of this tweet - @realDonaldTrump: Democrats are smiling in D.C. that the Freedom Caucus, with the help of Club For Growth and Heritage, have saved Planned Parenthood & Ocare! - let's discuss the abject failures of leadership that led to the failure of the AHCA 2/
I don't think the AHCA was worth passing, but if Trump did, he did a terrible job of seeing that it happened. 3/
Let's recall the work that went into the passage of Obamacare. It was a process that took nine months of intra-party wrangling. 4/
Obama was in regular contact with his own party's congressional leadership and engaged in a full-court PR press to sell the bill. 5/
A process which began long before the bill was even conceived. 6/
An important element of this was that Obama did not act like a jackass every single day on Twitter and immediately tank his approval 7/
Thus, his campaigning, particularly with members of his own party, actually worked. His own party cared about crossing him. 8/
Now let's contrast this with Trump's, uh, "efforts," if you wish to call them that, to ensure passage of the AHCA. 9/
First, he doomed the whole effort by setting up wildly unrealistic expectations - we will repeal "immediately," it will be "very easy" 10/
Then, he refused to participate even a little bit in the drafting of the bill, even to provide input on thematic elements. 11/
Once the bill was drafted, he failed to educate himself at all on what was even contained in the bill. 12/
The entire time, he undercut House leadership's messaging on the bill and sent dramatically inconsistent messages in the press. 13/
During the fight over the bill he did almost no work to convince the public of the need for its passage. No major speeches, no townhalls 14/
He did, however, play a lot of golf, so he had that in common with Obama. 15/
During the debate over Obamacare, Obama personally cajoled, threatened, and bribed (Nelson-NE) his own caucus to keep them on board. 16/
Obama stuck with the bill even after a necessary vote in the Senate (Kennedy) DIED, making a conference committee impossible. 17/
Trump walked away after the bill had been debated for about two weeks and he personally had been involved for about 3 days. 18/
In short, the amount of effort he put forth was pathetic and his tactics were ill-suited to work with elected officials 19/
Most importantly, he has no political capital to make people afraid of him because his OTHER unforced errors made him unpopular 20/
Unforced errors, by the way, that have had nothing to do with advancing his agenda but rather with protecting his infantile ego 21/
Again, the AHCA's failure is a good thing. But if you disagree with that, nearly 100% of the failure lies with Trump. 22/
The idiotic rants of Jeanine Pirro and Sean Hannity aside, Congressmen are not serfs. Trump isn't Kim Jong Un. Leaders understand this. 23/
The end. 24/
posted by chris24 at 9:35 AM on March 26, 2017 [77 favorites]

So they are just figuring this out then?
posted by Artw at 9:39 AM on March 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

Has anyone mentioned that Nunes basically being there with the Turks to do a rendition on an American opponent of Erdogan will maybe make the Armenian community in the Central Valley sensitive ?
posted by jadepearl at 9:42 AM on March 26, 2017 [19 favorites]

I'd love to read HuffPo's incisive reporting on Yemen over the past several years.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:49 PM on March 25

Yeah, you know what's funny about HuffPo's Yemen reporting? For some weird reason, before, oh, let's say "early to mid-November," their headlines were some variation on "Why Saudi Arabia Is Continuing Its War In Yemen."

The Huffington Post is part of the problem as reactionary tools who know where their bread is buttered. I'm sure some very nice people work there and are trying to do what they think is good work, but they are not a legitimate news organization on this topic.
posted by rhizome at 9:46 AM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

> Like in any random sample, you're going to have the True Asshole and then the people just dumb and mean enough to follow that True Asshole all the way to Assholevanyia. I don't really know what to do about that, tbh.

Ignorant people are not only dangerous, they are a dangerous weapon that can be used against you. Consider treating them like nukes. Disarm their ignorance or otherwise keep them out of the hands of people who would abuse them. It's tempting to make more of them because they are easy to use and devastating in large numbers. But they could also destroy the world if left unchecked.

We should get ready for them, just as we would for other dangers that are around us all the time.
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 9:55 AM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

Has anyone mentioned that Nunes basically being there with the Turks to do a rendition on an American opponent of Erdogan will maybe make the Armenian community in the Central Valley sensitive ?

Nunes was at a different meeting with Flynn and Turkish officials, not, apparently, at the one where they discussed removing Gulen.
posted by sporkwort at 9:55 AM on March 26, 2017

I've seen a fair amount of well-deserved admiration of Rep. Ted Lieu, so thought I'd drop this here: if there are any mefites in the West LA area, Lieu is going to be speaking at the Pacific Palisades Women's Club for a Call to Action meeting with a bunch of other organizations like Swing Left, Code Blue, Indivisible, etc today at 1:30. I was hoping to go, but I've come down with a godawful cold and I don't want to be a public health hazard.
posted by yasaman at 9:56 AM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

Steering into a death spiral:
Trump's IRS stages a stealth attack on Obamacare - LA Times
posted by 0rison at 9:59 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

Post-2018 maybe it would mean President Pelosi. MY BODY IS READY.

If Dem numbers look good for 2018, it's possible there might be a 2017 chance for Republicans to impeach him early to ensure that Ryan and not Pelosi gets it. Given how insane things are after - it's hard to believe, but real - only two months, every extra year saved is a mitzvah.
posted by corb at 10:03 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

If Dem numbers look good for 2018, it's possible there might be a 2017 chance for Republicans to impeach him early to ensure that Ryan and not Pelosi gets it.

there's two problems with that - pence - and they'd need democratic votes for conviction in the senate
posted by pyramid termite at 10:05 AM on March 26, 2017

Post-2018 maybe it would mean President Pelosi. MY BODY IS READY.

If the Democrats retake the House in 2018, and then impeach the President and Vice-President leading to a President Pelosi instead of President Clinton, we would have confirmation that not only are we living in a simulation, and not only are there extra-dimensional beings writing that simulation, but also that those extra-dimensional beings are from the Disney Corporation.

Despite my comments earlier vis-a-vis The Enquirer and Flynn, I really don't hold out hope for an impeachment. Iran-Contra is more of a template for this than Watergate, because during Watergate the opposition party controlled the legislative bodies, while during Iran-Contra, it was the party in power. I also think that if the Democrats retake the House in 2018, they know that it would be incredibly inflammatory to have an impeachment that results in the opposite party being "handed" the White House, no matter how just such a process might be. I think if it really comes to pass that Trump faces an impeachment process, the Democrats' political calculus will be to leave Pence as the occupant of the White House.
posted by Slothrop at 10:13 AM on March 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

It is pretty awesome that the Republican Party is reaping the whirlwind on Trump's lying as much or more as the rest of the country. Paul Ryan, in particular, now has to wonder "Is Trump telling the truth when he says to tune in to some hatchet job on Fox at a very particular time, or is he telling the truth when he says he still likes me?" Trump sure is a straight shooter, isn't he?
posted by Slothrop at 10:15 AM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

"I also think that if the Democrats retake the House in 2018, they know that it would be incredibly inflammatory to have an impeachment that results in the opposite party being "handed" the White House, no matter how just such a process might be."

2018 is going to be an explicit referendum on impeachment. Yay or nay position will be listed on the candidate tri-folds.
posted by klarck at 10:18 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

you need 67 votes for conviction in the senate - it's going to have to be something really blatant and awful
posted by pyramid termite at 10:19 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

Iran-Contra is more of a template for this than Watergate

There it is again! Iran-Contra, the impeachable offense Republicans laughed at.

"you need 67 votes for conviction in the senate - it's going to have to be something really blatant and awful"

Would "sold out America for 19 billion" do it?
posted by petebest at 10:26 AM on March 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

and not the normal kind of really blatant and awful where Trump's presidency exists in any kind of reality-moored context of the entire prior history of the US Presidency, something real juicy
posted by cortex at 10:26 AM on March 26, 2017 [14 favorites]

I think what it boils down to, is when Trump met with the Freedom Caucus and told them to "forget the little shit" they realized he was talking about himself, and did.
posted by darkstar at 10:29 AM on March 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

I know this hasn't been posted yet in this thread, and I apologize if it's been posted in earlier threads, but from RedState, We Must Apologize To The Democratic Party.

We owe the Democratic Party an apology. Oh, you may not like that I’m saying it, but it’s owed. A big one. Why? Because we called them liars for years and it turns out they were somehow right about something.

Ever since the passage of the Affordable Care Act, the Republican Party has campaigned on, championed, raised money over the cause of repealing it. “You need to give us the House of Representatives,” they told us, “and we will fix this mess.” And so, in 2010, we gave them the House.

And they said they’d do it, and they tried, and then they told us “You need to give us the Senate, too, then we can really fix it.” So, we did give them the Senate in 2014.

And they passed repeal after repeal, which was promptly vetoed with no possibility of override. “You need to give us the White House,” they said. “That’ll make it a reality.” And, in 2016, the United States gave Donald Trump the White House, and kept the Republicans in power in Congress.

The whole time leading up to this point, however, the Democrats mocked and derided the Republicans. “You have no plan to replace it, to reform the system, to fix the mess” they cried. And, we ignored them, because we had ideas, you see, and we had people pushing those ideas.

So, months after Donald Trump takes office, the Republican leadership in the House presents a bill to the American public, and the response was nothing short disastrous. You see, the Democrats were right all along. We, very clearly, had no plan.

posted by corb at 10:31 AM on March 26, 2017 [124 favorites]

Bannon encouraged Sessions to run for president before meeting Trump
posted by futz at 10:34 AM on March 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

Really? After all the shit that they've done, he thinks that's what they should apologize for?
posted by ryanrs at 10:36 AM on March 26, 2017 [23 favorites]

No, it reads more as something a sleazebag dipshit businessman would consider a good negotiating tactic.

Seriously, the hardest part of dealing with Trump must be resisting the urge to laugh in his face when he pulls some juvenile "power move" like this.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:36 AM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

You can see in those RedState comments how this is going to play out in the GOP base -- all of this will be blamed on Trump, not the GOP, and not the larger conservative movement. It's the whole "conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed" thing. Trump was never part of their movement to begin with, and even though Trump had nothing to do with the dozens of times the GOP voted to repeal Obamacare and nothing to do with the fact that they had years to come up with their own alternative plan but failed to do so, this will be retconned as Trump's failure, not theirs.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:37 AM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

All this 'Dems are right' is fun but unsettling. And also hilarinfuriating how they talk about how deliberative Dems were on Obamacare after lying about doing it overnight and 'gotta pass it to see what's in it' for 8 years.

@davidfrum
Cotton praises Ds “fact based foundation of knowledge “ on healthcare …

@FaceTheNation
.@SenTomCotton: I think the House moved a bit too fast. 18 days is simply not enough time for such major landmark legislation. [video]
posted by chris24 at 10:38 AM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

he thinks that's what they should apologize for?

Well, it's a start.

The tipping point won't come until Joe and Jane Sixpack in the sticks apologizes for their actions in electing him, but every conservative commentator apologizing for some little thing along the way is a step in that direction.
posted by yhbc at 10:39 AM on March 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

Bannon encouraged Sessions to run for president before meeting Trump

Which shows what a keen political mind he is. Sessions wouldn't have beaten Jeb! And Rubio beat Jeb!
posted by petebest at 10:39 AM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

Which shows what a keen political mind he is. Sessions wouldn't have beaten Jeb! And Rubio beat Jeb!

Well I wouldn't have thought that Trump would have beaten a dead cat, but SEE WHAT I KNOW. *mutters darkly*
posted by corb at 10:41 AM on March 26, 2017 [18 favorites]

So, months after Donald Trump takes office, the Republican leadership in the House presents a bill to the American public, and the response was nothing short disastrous. You see, the Democrats were right all along. We, very clearly, had no plan.

This makes no sense to me. They're just now realizing they had no plan? Weren't they previously curious about what the plan was? Didn't they want to know that so they could evaluate whether it was a good plan? This has been the single biggest public policy issue of the past decade. How on earth could you, a professional political commentator, not have known where candidates you supported stood on it? How can you show your face in public after admitting that?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:41 AM on March 26, 2017 [55 favorites]

Seriously, read that article. Cunningham goes on to describe the Republican desire to repeal and replace as "taking the high road" and says the major error was in execution. Garbage with a clickbait headline, barf.
posted by ryanrs at 10:42 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

Well I wouldn't have thought that Trump would have beaten a dead cat, but SEE WHAT I KNOW. *mutters darkly*

Sessions doesn't have all the scrumptious toxic masculinity and abusive-husbandness of Trump. That's what put the big feller over the line (that line being 3 million short of the popular vote).
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:44 AM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

It's beginning to feel like President Bannon is sharpening his knives to feed on the trump beast.
posted by Yowser at 10:45 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's beginning to feel like President Bannon is sharpening his knives to feed on the trump beast.

I more imagine that Bannon feeds by inserting his head and neck fully into the carcass's body cavity, much like a hyena or vulture.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:48 AM on March 26, 2017 [12 favorites]

Now, I am not a fan of hyenas or vultures, but I feel compelled to say that comparison really does them a disservice.
posted by darkstar at 10:50 AM on March 26, 2017 [16 favorites]

Bannon is like no earthly predator or scavenger. To see him feed is to risk madness.
posted by circumspect at 10:52 AM on March 26, 2017 [21 favorites]

A timeline of events that unfolded during the election appears to support the FBI's investigation into Trump-Russia collusion
posted by futz at 10:55 AM on March 26, 2017 [14 favorites]

(My implication being that hyenas and vultures occupy an important and useful ecological niche, whereas Bannon...)
posted by darkstar at 10:55 AM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

that motherfucker ain't no otherworldly horror, just a fuckin two hit dice ghoul who got lucky
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:56 AM on March 26, 2017 [54 favorites]

Yes, the Cunningham piece is bizarre/ If someone's lying about you, then you know it's a lie - because you know yourself. Ditto if they're telling the truth. So the big reveal isn't OMG Dems Tell The Truth (although that is perhaps news to Rs) it's 'why did we not know this about ourselves?' and -here comes the real thing - 'what else about ourselves have we got wrong?'.

It's really not about having to admit the Dems were right. Forget about them. You've got bigger problems.
posted by Devonian at 10:57 AM on March 26, 2017 [18 favorites]

Donald Trump voters: "We like the president's lies" [thestar.com]
posted by porpoise at 10:57 AM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

So, is Bannon the fell-beast to Trump's Witch-King, or vice versa?
posted by tobascodagama at 10:58 AM on March 26, 2017

No, it reads more as something a sleazebag dipshit businessman would consider a good negotiating tactic.

The most revealing question is why Trump would think that the money was owed to the United States specifically. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of what NATO is.
posted by jaduncan at 11:00 AM on March 26, 2017 [13 favorites]

No, I got it, Bannon is the bloated corpse that drags Frodo into the Dead Marsh, Trump is the flickering light that drew his attention off the path in the first place.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:01 AM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

The LA Times ran this story on the front page, suggesting the possibility of bipartisan fixes to the ACA:

Obamacare future prospects

This seems loopy to me given all that has transpired; is there a legitimate hope of a coalition that could pass legislation that Trump would sign? Or is this just the bipartisan fetish bubbling up again?
posted by circumspect at 11:02 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Weren't they previously curious

Not really a trait associated with conservatism

Kind of the opposite, in fact
posted by schadenfrau at 11:02 AM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

They're just now realizing they had no plan? Weren't they previously curious about what the plan was? Didn't they want to know that so they could evaluate whether it was a good plan?

they had a plan. it was a good plan. to go back to the previous evil of poor people just getting as sick as democracy and America needed them to.

what they didn't plan for was people en mass not being stupid enough to just accept this anymore, having had a bit of a taste of what having an actual at least half effective and affordable health plan felt like.
posted by philip-random at 11:02 AM on March 26, 2017 [32 favorites]

Ex-Obama speechwriter slams CNN for booking 'stupid' Trump surrogates

“You turn it on and there’s a big giant panel..."

"You mean Jeffrey Lord and Kayleigh McEnany?" Stelter asked.

“Absolutely, and you look at that giant panel, and it’s smart person, smart person, smart person, stupid person, smart person, smart person, smart person, bullshit factory.”

“I’m calling the people that CNN puts on television terrible representatives of the views of conservatives, they’re terrible representatives of the kind of politics we should have. I mean these are not intellectually honest people. These are people building a brand, people willing to say anything," he said.

He said it on CNN.
posted by futz at 11:16 AM on March 26, 2017 [81 favorites]

They had a plan like the cylons had a plan.
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:16 AM on March 26, 2017 [23 favorites]

“I’m calling the people that CNN puts on television terrible representatives of the views of conservatives, they’re terrible representatives of the kind of politics we should have. I mean these are not intellectually honest people. These are people building a brand, people willing to say anything," he said.

In CNN's defense, no conservative with a brain is willing to get up there and defend Trump and his bullshit. That's why they need a factory to do it.
posted by Talez at 11:19 AM on March 26, 2017 [25 favorites]

Jeez, that article porpoise linked is depressing.

A toxic mixture of cognitive dissonance (basically, "he lies a lot but it's okay because he's honest") and simple, vindictive grenade-throwing ("I'm hurting, so I want all politicians to hurt, and Trump is my weapon").

How the hell do you reach people like that? It's like they each are in pain - physical or psychic - and would benefit from serious therapeutuc care. I don't think any kind of messaging could convince someone in that situation to change their mind.

I recall a Lone Ranger episode I saw some 40 years ago when one character asked why an innocent man would run from the law. The answer - which has resonated with me for decades now - was something like "a drowning man will grasp even the edge of a sword if he thinks it will save him."

I feel really bad for those down-and-out rust belters whose lives have dealt them such a hard blow that Trump seems like the only possible answer to their anguish.
posted by darkstar at 11:20 AM on March 26, 2017 [21 favorites]

How the hell do you reach people like that?

You don't. You don't even bother trying. Ignore them, build a better world around them, and let them decide if they want to participate or not.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 11:25 AM on March 26, 2017 [60 favorites]

> In CNN's defense, no conservative with a brain is willing to get up there and defend Trump and his bullshit. That's why they need a factory to do it.

Yeah, and if you watch the video, you can see where Lovett realizes this flaw in his logic and goes from talking about Trump supporters to conservatives in general. His point is that there are smart conservatives out there, and he's right about that, but none of them support Trump, and CNN just isn't going to have panels where there isn't at least one supporter of POTUS on them. One could argue that they should, but they aren't going to do it.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:26 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

His point is that there are smart conservatives out there, and he's right about that, but none of them support Trump

Some of them do. It's just that you can't go on CNN and say "I am a cynical opportunist who puts my own career and personal advancement above patriotism, principle and compassion," so they either stay away from CNN or sound stupid on CNN, because the only other justifications for their positions are stupid.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:30 AM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

I liked how Stetler was all "So you think all Trump supporters are stupid?" and Lovett immediately said "No!" while definitely thinking "....yes."
posted by yasaman at 11:36 AM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

I wanted Stetler to just shut the hell up and let Lovett talk.

And Lovett isn't wrong at all. Every time I see Jeffrey Lord or those other bullshitters CNN puts on I feel an active urge to punch someone at CNN in the head for thinking I'm stupid enough to believe those people are credible or intelligent contributors.

Of course, if that means I'm insulting Trump supporters, I'm completely comfortable with that.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:45 AM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

How the hell do you reach people like that?

Like Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick said, but I would add that I'm getting sick and tired of this question being raised, as if the only moral or winning course for Democrats is to achieve a unanimous victory or something. The people in that article are the hardest cases, the diehard, nihilist opponents. You don't waste your time on them, and when people suggest that you do, you call out a sucker's strategy for what it is.
posted by fatbird at 11:47 AM on March 26, 2017 [40 favorites]

I say we waste not one more moment on "understanding" folks like those in that article, or "reaching" them. We route around them. We already understand them, and they are saying clearly that they don't care to be reached out to by the likes of us--let's believe what they say. We keep our eyes on the bigger picture and, as said above, build a better world around them. We don't need them to do that, and we don't need the appreciation (that we will not get) once we do. We have work to do that will provide real results. Spending one more moment on placating those who won't be appeased is wasted effort. Route around, and keep moving forward.
posted by thebrokedown at 11:47 AM on March 26, 2017 [27 favorites]

We don't need them

As much as I agree with your sentiments, we lost an election to Donald fuckin' Trump because we didn't get those votes. So clearly we need a few of them at least.
posted by ryanrs at 11:51 AM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yup.
Trump has lost barely any of his supporters despite clear bigotry, despite constant incompetence, despite blatant waste of taxpayer money, despite Russia and all of it. They don't care about his hypocrisy. They don't even care about how he plainly doesn't care about him.
THEY. DON'T. CARE.

All they care about is pushing brown people further and further into the margins (or, y'know, out of the country entirely) and doing whatever makes the "stupid libs" angry. Even if that means selling out the White House to Putin.

We need to focus on the people who haven't voted and haven't been engaged, because as frustrating a battle as that is it's far better than trying to turn someone who is committed to self-destruction.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:52 AM on March 26, 2017 [37 favorites]

Nonsense, ryanrs - we won the votes. We lost the electoral college by margins that are easily made up in voter turnout and convincing middle-of-the-road voters who cast their votes for 3rd party candidates.
posted by kokaku at 11:53 AM on March 26, 2017 [29 favorites]

As much as I agree with your sentiments, we lost an election to Donald fuckin' Trump because we didn't get those votes. So clearly we need a few of them at least.

If we're just talking elections, we really don't. What happened in 2016 was a shitshow, but not paying attention to dumb white men isn't what lost Clinton the election.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:53 AM on March 26, 2017 [26 favorites]

If those are the only voters left then you're not going to win anyway. Also America is doomed and the city states need to start building walls against the wasteland people.
posted by Artw at 11:54 AM on March 26, 2017 [13 favorites]

The Toronto Star knows what it's doing.

They basically went and interviewed the Ohio equivalent of every loudmouth Sun reader you try to avoid at the bar. These are guys who think they're fucking geniuses because they fiddled workers' comp for two years.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:04 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

The most bone-chilling insight into the President of the United States of America that I have ever read:

"He didn't care or particularly know about health care," a key GOP congressional aide said.

What the what??! Not only did he have no idea what he was negotiating, HE DIDN'T CARE. Screwing around playing King Dealmaker using Americans as pawns is indicative of a profound and alarming disrespect.

This is all a game to him. He literally tried to negotiate a bill that directly affected pretty much every single American without even a basic understanding of what he was negotiating and worse, he didn't even care.

Say what we will about terrible dictators of the world, but they had goals to improve the lives of their people. Trump doesn't give a shit about Americans.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 12:04 PM on March 26, 2017 [53 favorites]

we won the votes

Yeah but the popular vote doesn't get you anything.

margins that are easily made up in voter turnout

Hillary had a really, really good ground game. It will absolutely not be easy to top our 2016 GOTV effort.

convincing middle-of-the-road voters who cast their votes for 3rd party candidates

The third party voters I've seen don't seem very middle-of-the-road-ish.
posted by ryanrs at 12:08 PM on March 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

Well then putting up the walls it is, because nobody wants to be ruled by this shitshow intellectual void and there sure isn't any persuading it to get any better.
posted by Artw at 12:11 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

I guess we give up then because those people are truly unreachable. "He lies but that's okay because he's honest"? We might as well run a literal ham sandwich because they're as likely to vote for that as they are to vote for any Democrat.
posted by lydhre at 12:16 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

HE DIDN'T CARE. Screwing around playing King Dealmaker using Americans as pawns is indicative of a profound and alarming ~~disrespect~~SOCIOPATHY.
posted by darkstar at 12:20 PM on March 26, 2017 [15 favorites]

#1. Donald Trump lies to himself.
#2. Donald Trump loves himself.
Therefore, when Trump lies to you, it's proof that he loves you.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:28 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Or does he lie to himself about love?
posted by Artw at 12:30 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump voters: "We like the president's lies" [thestar.com]
Loyal Trump voters have ALWAYS loved lies. They are the portion of the American people who profit by lying. They lie on their time cards and their taxes and commit vote fraud. Trump the liar/cheat/bully/crook is their role model. I have a Runabout Bus driver who's a Trumpist and thinks I am too (I just avoid talking politics on the bus) and he doesn't bother punching my fare card, giving me a free ride. Always count your change TWICE if you think your cashier is a Trumpist. If we can get Honest Americans to the polls (and past the dishonest pollworkers), we can relegate Trump and the entire Criminal Republican Party to the dustbin of history.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:32 PM on March 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

Voter turnout for both parties is terrible. Even for registered voters. So yes, there is a lot of votes to be gained by turning people out as opposed to trying to convert Trumpian hardliners. As achievable goals go, getting people motivated to vote who like your policies is a hell of a lot more likely to succeed than arguing with MAGA hats.
posted by emjaybee at 12:34 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

As always, I would love it if we talked less about how to appeal to racist white people and more about what white people who supposedly care are going to do about the widespread disenfranchisement of people of color since the gutting of the Voting Rights Act.
posted by hydropsyche at 12:34 PM on March 26, 2017 [63 favorites]

Hillary had a really, really good ground game. It will absolutely not be easy to top our 2016 GOTV effort.

Yes it will. We show up in WI and MI in 2020 instead of leaving them to the wolves.
posted by Talez at 12:35 PM on March 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

> for Democrats... to achieve a unanimous victory or something.

I will admit, that is a fantasy of mine, but my overton window's been shifted so far that I'd settle for Republicans with positions that aren't based on hate. Fine, you can be anti-abortion, but then you have to give assistance on child-care and healthcare. You can be anti gun-control, but mental health professionals have to be even more accessible than guns. You can be deluded enough to believe in the possibility of the poor to bootstrap themselves as long as you don't outlaw bootstraps.
posted by fragmede at 12:36 PM on March 26, 2017 [12 favorites]

I think it comes down to what it has always come down to: generational and demographic change.

In four years, the most conservative demographic group - whites over 50 - will continue to diminish as a percentage of the voting population. In 8 years, the effect will be considerably greater. These demographic shifts due to mortality, birth rates and immigration are going to make it harder and harder for gerrymandering and voter suppression to work as effectively as it did in the past to disenfranchise the poor and minorities.

As that group gets smaller, we can expect many of them to become more radicalized. So we can expect more of the same kind of destructive crap like voting for clowns like Trump just to express their anger, trying to build a wall to prevent immigration, starting trade wars, banning refugees from Muslim countries, offending geopolitical allies, etc.

The task for progressives is to hold fast in the face of major setbacks like last November, fight GOP efforts to cause permanent damage to civilized, pluralistic society, and work toward that better country that XPH evoked above.

I still feel bad for the traumatized, though.
posted by darkstar at 12:42 PM on March 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

Nearly 1 out of every 3 days he has been president, Trump has visited a Trump property - Has also golfed every 5.5 days
posted by futz at 12:48 PM on March 26, 2017 [37 favorites]

This thread explains the Trump-Russia conspiracy.
posted by y2karl at 12:49 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

Hillary had a really, really good ground game. It will absolutely not be easy to top our 2016 GOTV effort.

Which apparently was wasted by directing a large effort in California to run up the popular vote totals so that she would not just win, but win with a large popular vote mandate. That effort should obviously, in retrospect, been directed to midwestern states she took for granted.

Also, a story that hasn't gotten much play in all the louder noise: Trump had a great ground game too because the Koch brothers handled it for him via Americans For Prosperity. Trump's ground game was independently handled, separate from the Trump campaign, leading Democrats to underestimate Trump turnout. AFP did a great job, specifically in those weak-blue states, turning out Trump voters to sneak a win by the Clinton campaign.
posted by fatbird at 1:10 PM on March 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

In four years, the most conservative demographic group - whites over 50 - will continue to diminish as a percentage of the voting population. In 8 years, the effect will be considerably greater. These demographic shifts due to mortality, birth rates and immigration are going to make it harder and harder for gerrymandering and voter suppression to work as effectively as it did in the past to disenfranchise the poor and minorities.

2016 proved demographics are not destiny. Yes, long term trends are in favor of the Democrats, but not fast enough, and not geographically balanced to overcome structural disadvantage in the Electoral College, much less in the anti-democratic Senate. And not enough to replace the massive losses with white voters, who will still be 65%+ of the electorate for the forseaable future.

And a lot rides on the 2018/2020 governor's races. Control of the census and redistricting will allow Republicans to lock in control of the House for another 10 years by updating and further refining their gerrymandered districts. What demographic changes have moved towards the Dems since 2010 can be undone by another Republican cycle of gerrymandering.

The Clinton campaign fell into believing too much demographic change, reaching for Arizona while not playing defense in Michigan or Wisconsin. Arizona may one day turn into a purple and even blue state just by virtue of demographic shift, but that wasn't ever on the table in 2016, and probably not by 2020 either. Same for Texas. In the near term, Dem have to compete basically everywhere. They do need to make inroads into shifting Sun Belt states, but they cannot fail to compete in the midwest, or give up too early on states like Iowa and Ohio as lost to shifts in the other direction.

Tl;dr: the 50 state strategy is still a thing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:25 PM on March 26, 2017 [29 favorites]

There's also the issue of polls. I wasn't watching the election polling as closely as many of you, but my sense is that we were very confident in the polling, and it turned out to be wrong. If that's the case going forward, we need to rethink the poll-driven campaign strategy.
posted by ryanrs at 1:27 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

BentFranklin, probably not. But also, the Koch bros don't have many elections left in them.
posted by ryanrs at 1:29 PM on March 26, 2017

CNN just isn't going to have panels where there isn't at least one supporter of POTUS on them. One could argue that they should, but they aren't going to do it.

Indeed. I was duped into watching a Sunday talk show and the false equivalence was shriekng like metal-on-metal. We are so far past "traditional" forms of political discussion, it can't help but be farcical. The only way through is to have an entire panel of reasonable, articulate political commentators, i.e. not Trump apologists.
posted by petebest at 1:29 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

If those are the only voters left then you're not going to win anyway. Also America is doomed and the city states need to start building walls against the wasteland people.

Artw - didn't you work on Judge Dredd, or am I thinking of another MeFite? Because that's sounding a lot like Mega-Cities and the Cursed Earth to me, and I'm getting a bit nervous about which timeline we're in...
posted by MattWPBS at 1:33 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

my sense is that we were very confident in the polling, and it turned out to be wrong

Trump beat the final FiveThirtyEight national polling average by 1.8%. I don't think polls being off by 1.8% means that polls are now meaningless.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:33 PM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

But also, the Koch bros don't have many elections left in them.

Their writhing tentacles will live on though.
posted by futz at 1:33 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

Not only did he have no idea what he was negotiating, HE DIDN'T CARE.

Nope. Because it wasn't about him.

Ironically, the left would benefit with public thanks TO Trump for "pulling the bill". He'd get desperately craved attention and praise and likely respond with some action that might support less dread in the future.

But, as it happens, we're really pissed off and weren't gonna play that anyway.
posted by petebest at 1:37 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ted Koppel calls it like he sees it:

“Do you think we’re bad for America? You think I’m bad for America?” - Sean Hannity
"Yes...You have attracted people who are determined that ideology is more important than facts" - Ted Koppel

posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on March 26, 2017 [137 favorites]

Appliance and electronics companies push back on cutting Energy Star program.
posted by emjaybee at 1:45 PM on March 26, 2017 [47 favorites]

Hillary had a really, really good ground game. It will absolutely not be easy to top our 2016 GOTV effort.

No, Hillary's campaign was very effective at looking like they were competent, but they really weren't. They spent twice as much money as the Republicans and still got beat by the worst candidate to ever stand for the office.

I believed wholeheartedly in Hillary's competence, and the "electability argument", and I was proven wrong. If we're going to move forward from this great catastrophe, we must throw away our reassuring, self-serving illusions. No one involved in that campaign should be employed in the industry again, for one simple reason: They were beaten by Donald Trump.
posted by vibrotronica at 1:51 PM on March 26, 2017 [37 favorites]

Here's a good Slate article about Indivisible.

I was really happy with this local TV coverage of an Indivisible-organized healthcare rally in Cedar Falls, Iowa on Friday. We may finally, finally be getting the hang of messaging.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:54 PM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump is surrounded by sycophants, family, employees, and business partners. Does he ever come into contact with people who are willing to call him on his shit? I would love it if someone could just tell him right to his face, "Shut your fat face, you fucking blowhard. You are as dumb as a bag rocks and everybody knows it. We are all laughing at you."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:54 PM on March 26, 2017 [14 favorites]

But also, the Koch bros don't have many elections left in them.

I've been thinking a lot about the advanced age of many of these ratfuckers: Trump, the Kochs, Murdoch, Giuliani. I keep coming back to Henry Miller.

I will sing while you croak. I will dance on your dirty corpse.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:54 PM on March 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

Things are sadder than I thought if Ted Koppel is our hero of democracy.
posted by rhizome at 1:54 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

Hillary had a really, really good ground game. It will absolutely not be easy to top our 2016 GOTV effort.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with that. I've canvassed every presidential election since 2004, in PA, VA and OH. This year in Ohio, on election day, I was knocking on doors that had never been knocked on. On election day, there were names on my walk list that had moved. In one area, the woman whose house was the staging area had been walking the lists herself before we got there. I've never seen those things before. I think it had as much to do with a lack of enthusiasm (because of the heated primaries) as with bad decisions by the campaign though.

I do think it's possible to do better on turnout.
posted by maggiemaggie at 1:55 PM on March 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

It turns out that 39% of schools report a decline but 35% of schools report an increase and 26% report no change. This seems kind of random.

I suspect it varies by location and which student populations tend to go where. It will be interesting to see if my alma mater declines or not since (a) we're a sanctuary city and (b) we mostly get Chinese students, who aren't quite on the Trump shit list yet.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:58 PM on March 26, 2017

I'm not as sure that the lack of enthusiasm was because of the heated primary - Hillary Clinton had a decades long hate campaign against her. It's not fair, but barring a nomination for, I don't know, Bill Ayers, nobody else will have that particular liability. And frankly, that colored reactions well beyond the traditional low information voter.
posted by The Gaffer at 2:02 PM on March 26, 2017 [13 favorites]

They spent twice as much money as the Republicans and still got beat by the worst candidate to ever stand for the office. I believed wholeheartedly in Hillary's competence, and the "electability argument", and I was proven wrong.

That candidate had help from all the usual RNC suspects, but also from entrenched sexism across the board, a resurgence of overt racism and xenophobia, a media in the tank for false equivalencies, voter suppression in key states, unprecedented Russian interference, and the goddamn FBI.

And in the end, she lost by narrow margins in a few swing states.

I have nothing to say about ground games 'cause I'm not very studied on that, and I won't for a second claim that Hillary made no mistakes. But let's not pretend her opposition was anything normal.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:03 PM on March 26, 2017 [60 favorites]

If you want to steal votes from the Republican voters highlighted in that article you need to appeal to their dominant emotion: hate. Now, most of that hate is self-loathing that they take out in all the usual ways the Left (correctly) despises, but a good chunk is reserved for anybody they view as having it better, and that's your wedge.

That clip of Warren dressing down John Stumpf (Wells Fargo CEO)? That's the only time I've seen both sides of my 50/50 politically-split Facebook feed in full support of an explicitly political act. The moderates and the idiots alike know there are con men like Stumpf out there, and they love nothing so much as watching those guys get their asses handed to them.

You want to win the next one no matter how badly they gerrymander shit? Run a Warren-style Robin Hood. Could be Warren herself, could be someone else, but hammer that one note over and over - an entire miniseries of moments like that - and you'll win the entire game. Best of all: with the number of crooks Trump's allowed in the gate, this is a pretty target-rich environment for moments like that.
posted by Ryvar at 2:06 PM on March 26, 2017 [24 favorites]

> I've never seen those things before. I think it had as much to do with a lack of enthusiasm (because of the heated primaries) as with bad decisions by the campaign though.

I think "because of the heated primaries" here is a dangerous oversimplification. Obama fought through a much more heated primary in 2008 and didn't suffer a meaningful loss of enthusiasm. "Because of the heated primaries" underplays the role that Russian interference played in the demoralization and disorganization of liberals; it also underplays missteps made by the Clinton campaign in policy and in their ad strategy.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:08 PM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

Y'all we have on many past occasions had looping arguments about why exactly Trump won and whose fault that is and so on; let's not dig in deep on that yet again in here just to fill time. Go back and read some old threads if you're hungry for a rehash.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:11 PM on March 26, 2017 [66 favorites]

> congress just voted to let isps share your browsing history without your permission, and strips the fcc from making a similar rule in the future.

‘Personal Peeping Toms:’ Schumer Denounces Vote Allowing ISPs To Sell Data Without Consent
posted by homunculus at 2:14 PM on March 26, 2017 [27 favorites]

I'll definitely accept that "because of the heated primaries" is wrong, but there did seem to be a worrying lack of enthusiasm on the ground, especially compared to Obama in 2008. I was in denial about it at the time but it's been eating me ever since.

There was one moment in the afternoon of election day, after encountering the third eviction notice on my walk list, and it was starting to rain, when the possibility of Trump winning finally penetrated my brain and I was terrified. I texted a friend but then dismissed it as implausible.
posted by maggiemaggie at 2:14 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

people who are determined that ideology is more important than facts

A good, true message, but the vocab & syntax is a bit hairy for a Fox talk show. He probably lost half his audience.
posted by Coventry at 2:17 PM on March 26, 2017

the possibility of Trump winning finally penetrated my brain and I was terrified

You were ahead of me... I didn't accept it till the wee hours of the 9th, though all the same signs were there on my route.
posted by Coventry at 2:21 PM on March 26, 2017

Things are sadder than I thought if Ted Koppel is our hero of democracy.

Sna-haaaa-ap!
posted by petebest at 2:21 PM on March 26, 2017

I really believe that there is a certain percentage of the voting-eligible population that will not support a Democratic candidate no matter who it is or what that candidate offers. Just not gonna happen, ever.

Instead of spending time and resources trying to woo an unwooable voter, I believe it is a far better use of time and resources to do two things: 1) stop the erosion of voters' rights so that people who are actually legally entitled to vote can do so without needless regulations that simply harrass them and cause them not to vote. 2) Reach and inspire that large pool of those people eligible to vote who do not bother to vote.

Perhaps we really need to spend resources on making the voting registration process and voting process easier for all voters while preserving voting security. While others may disagree, I believe that Washington state's vote by mail is secure and has provisions for handling cases which have halted a ballot's progress due to security issues. Even with easier voting, my state still has a large pool of eligible but non-voting citizens, though. We need to find out why that is and see if we can change that. I believe it would lead to a better result than trying to woo the unwooable.

As thebrokedown so eloquently put it, route around the unwooable and keep moving forward.
posted by Silverstone at 2:22 PM on March 26, 2017 [24 favorites]

Why Does Trump Want to Stop Investigating Chemical Accidents? Eliminating a critical agency that costs as much as four Mar-a-Lago trips.

It’s a safe assumption that most Americans have not heard of the US Chemical Safety Board. Donald Trump is certainly banking on that, since he proposed scrapping it in his recent budget proposal. But if the small agency is indeed defunded, the results could be catastrophic—and we might be left wondering, as the bodies are counted after some large chemical disaster, why nobody was angry when the CSB went away.

Previous post about the CSB.
posted by homunculus at 2:27 PM on March 26, 2017 [18 favorites]

Trump is surrounded by sycophants, family, employees, and business partners. Does he ever come into contact with people who are willing to call him on his shit?

The definitive answer is no. The fact that none of Bannon or Preibus or Mulvany or Tillerson or Mattis or Conway or Ivanka or Jared had the courage to say "It might be a bad idea to hand Angela Merkel a fake bill for NATO because it will make you look childish and stupid" proves it.
posted by JackFlash at 2:28 PM on March 26, 2017 [15 favorites]

Couple comments removed, not so much with the gross cartoon blind-linking.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:34 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

"It might be a bad idea to hand Angela Merkel a fake bill for NATO because it will make you look childish and stupid"

It is, however, a testament to Merkel's diplomatic skills that she did not walk out of that meeting and immediately hand that "bill" to the nearest reporter.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:39 PM on March 26, 2017 [36 favorites]

Eliminating a critical agency that costs as much as four Mar-a-Lago trips.

I'd love to see this measurement become the new Friedman Unit--the cost for such-and-such is equal to X Mar-a-Lagos.
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:43 PM on March 26, 2017 [16 favorites]

Donald Trump Literally Nominated The Goldman Sachs Bailout Lawyer To Run The SEC

Trump’s SEC Nominee Has a Major Conflict-of-Interest Problem: Jay Clayton is tied to big banks and corporations—and that could hold up fraud enforcement.

"Embodiment of Greed": Sanders, Warren Rail Against Trump's SEC Pick'. Mr. Clayton has spent his career providing get-out-of-jail-free cards to Wall Street executives'
posted by homunculus at 2:47 PM on March 26, 2017 [33 favorites]

You say large chemical disaster? Its happening right now and in middle America
Welcome to Bridgeton Missouri
posted by robbyrobs at 2:47 PM on March 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

I do think it's possible to do better on turnout.

Low-hanging fruit would be eliminating lines to vote. If it takes more than 20 minutes in-and-out, that's a de-facto denial of service attack on the vote.
posted by mikelieman at 2:48 PM on March 26, 2017 [33 favorites]

Well, as others have said, the next battle is Gorsuch.

The Dems in the Senate are doing their part by threatening to filibuster. We need to keep up the pressure on them and "moderate" Repubs.

If Gorsuch is pulled in favor of a somewhat less farcically right-wing candidate, I am not sure it will make too much difference to future SCOTUS decisions in the long run. But it may. Even Scalia was on the right side of history once or twice more often than Clarence Thomas.

After Gorsuch, then the budget fight. Push for special prosecutors to have accountability on Russian-backed treason. Fight the unconstitutionality of Emoluments violations. Propose Medicaid for All in California and any other state where it might be possible. Contest every 2018 race. Force the GOP to try to reconcile their "moderate" wing with the Teahadist wing at every step, to drive the wedge deeper. Make them fight and squirm and spend every nickel of political will and capital for every inch of ground.

We're the loyal opposition, and it's time to bleed those fuckers dry.
posted by darkstar at 2:49 PM on March 26, 2017 [18 favorites]

Freedom Caucus member resigns from group over Obamacare rift

Ted Poe has jumped ship. Choice words: "Saying no is easy, leading is hard, but that is what we were elected to do. Leaving this caucus will allow me to be a more effective Member of Congress and advocate for the people of Texas. It is time to lead."

Saying no is easy, you say? Tell me more! I wish to subscribe every Democratic congressperson to your newsletter!
posted by supercrayon at 2:56 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

If Gorsuch is pulled in favor of a somewhat less farcically right-wing candidate, I am not sure it will make too much difference to future SCOTUS decisions in the long run. But it may. Even Scalia was on the right side of history once or twice more often than Clarence Thomas.

If Gorsuch is pulled, we probably won’t get a “less farcicly right-wing candidate”. Rather, if Gorsuch is pulled, it will be after McConnell kills the filibuster and the Rs will be free to play hardball. Not that it isn’t worth trying! But I think realistic expectation of the outcome is kind of important too.

The most recent episode of the Amicus podcast (“Gorsuch Grins, Says Nothing”) covers the hearings and does a good job of reviewing the depressing possible outcomes.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:57 PM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

If Gorsuch is pulled, we probably won’t get a “less farcicly right-wing candidate”. Rather, if Gorsuch is pulled, it will be after McConnell kills the filibuster and the Rs will be free to play hardball.

Pretty sure if they kill the filibuster, Gorsuch is confirmed. They can change the filibuster rules at any time, it's an appeal to the chair on a Constitutional question, it doesn't have any effect on the underlying vote.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:00 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

I think that increasing turnout is important. Only about 60% of eligible voters voted in 2016. This might mean encouraging people to vote by mail (which I do, and it makes it a lot easier). It might mean more polling places, it might mean giving rides to people who need them, or even babysitting or elder care so that caregivers can get to the polls.

And this goes double, or triple, for midterms. So many people don't vote in midterms and local/state elections! This makes me want to tear my hair out. If Dems had turned out in force for the 2010 and 2014 midterms, we might not be in the pickle we are in now - or at least it might be a smaller, less sour pickle.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:01 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

If Gorsuch is pulled, we probably won’t get a “less farcicly right-wing candidate”. Rather, if Gorsuch is pulled, it will be after McConnell kills the filibuster and the Rs will be free to play hardball.

Pretty sure if they kill the filibuster, Gorsuch is confirmed. They can change the filibuster rules at any time, it's an appeal to the chair on a Constitutional question, it doesn't have any effect on the underlying vote.

Fair. Also, I suppose, if Gorsuch isn’t confirmed because people yell at their senators enough about him, it will really be a sea change and something different could happen. So yell at your senators!
posted by Going To Maine at 3:05 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Update on Tomi Lahren - her suspension has been upgraded to permanent ban. On to Fox News, I guess.
posted by zakur at 3:12 PM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

Also are y'all following the anti-corruption protests in Russia? The leader of the opposition, Alexei Navalny, has been detained by riot police along with a whole heap of other people.

Trump's response? Crickets. SURPRISE.
posted by supercrayon at 3:15 PM on March 26, 2017 [29 favorites]

Tomorrow's Headline: Alexei Navalny dies after falling out seventh story window. (fake... for now.)
posted by Justinian at 3:18 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Since Putin can't blame Hillary for this one, is Soros next?
posted by zachlipton at 3:21 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Hey, now, Trump's got more important presidentin' to do this weekend than to worry about the ongoing civil rights violations and outright murders being undertaken by his ~~puppetmaster~~pal Vladimir.

I wish alla you nabobs of negativism would get off his case just because he takes the occasional* golf trip.

*Where "occasional" = 12 times in 9 weeks.
posted by darkstar at 3:22 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Sandy Levinson @ Balkinization: Why the Democrats are in a win-win situation by filibustering
posted by rhizome at 3:23 PM on March 26, 2017 [12 favorites]

Sna-haaaa-ap!

You weren't watching Nightline the evening after the ERA missed the deadline for ratification.

Phyllis Schlafly was on, crowing up a storm.

And then, at the end, Koppel asked
something to the effect of "Oh, by the way, did you once say The atomic bomb is a marvelous gift that was given to our country by a wise God ?" -- all this in a disinterested affectless yet palpably dripping with contempt denasal monotone.

Like a louse on a pin in an insect collection, he had her skewered and squirming.

She was but but but spinning like a top but but but he would not let it go, back and forth it went, ending somewhere near...

The atomic bomb is a marvelous gift that was given to our country by a wise God -- those were your exact words ?

Well, yes...

Thank you. This has been Nightline, I'm Ted Koppel, good night.
posted by y2karl at 3:26 PM on March 26, 2017 [74 favorites]

Tomorrow's Headline: Alexei Navalny dies after falling out seventh story window. (fake... for now.)

@vornietom: YOU GOT THE ~~ONE~~ SECOND CHANCE IN YOUR LIFE TO USE THE WORD 'DEFENESTRATION' IN CONTEXT AND YOU FUCKIN BLEW IT smdh
posted by Going To Maine at 3:27 PM on March 26, 2017 [19 favorites]

Now, now. Defenestrate implies someone was thrown out the window. I wanted to leave open the possibility that all of these dudes are, coincidentally, just really bad at not tripping and flying through windows all on their own.
posted by Justinian at 3:29 PM on March 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

"Vladimir and the Defenestration Caucus" would be a good name for a band.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:32 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

"Polonium Tea Party" would be my preference.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 3:37 PM on March 26, 2017 [20 favorites]

Nunes made a "dead of night excursion??" after a mysterious phone call are you fucking kidding me
posted by emjaybee at 3:39 PM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

When I first read reports of this...

According to The Daily Beast, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) was traveling in an Uber with an aide Tuesday night when he received a call on his cell phone and then left the car, giving no indication where he was going. The abrupt departure by Nunes was verified by three committee officials and a former national security official.

...the impression it left me with was that the Uber car was still moving when he leapt out - maybe with a botched tuck-and-roll - to dash dramatically away into the darkness.

In my mind, that is still how it happened.
posted by darkstar at 3:46 PM on March 26, 2017 [42 favorites]

Somebody out there has to got be trying to win a Pulitzer by tracking down Nunes' Uber driver, right?
posted by zachlipton at 3:49 PM on March 26, 2017 [16 favorites]

Sean Spicer on Politico reporter: ‘an idiot with no real sources’, in an email to a Breitbart reporter, naturally.
posted by zachlipton at 3:51 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

The abrupt departure by Nunes was verified by three committee officials and a former national security official.

Were they all in the same Uber???
posted by emjaybee at 3:51 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

Also - while the Russia protests are full of terrible things they did at least produce one amazing photograph.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:58 PM on March 26, 2017 [28 favorites]

Appliance and electronics companies push back on cutting Energy Star program.

I can't fathom why Trump would consider putting Energy Star on the chopping block in the first place. It's voluntary, so no burdensome regulations to rail against. It's hugely popular with manufacturers (who get to tout their energy-efficient features), retailers (who can use improved energy efficiency as part of a sales pitch or upsell on a more efficient model), and consumers (who are better informed and in some jurisdictions eligible for rebates). And lastly, it costs practically nothing: there seems to be very little in terms of government expenditures on maintaining the program, since all that's really involved is drafting standards and testing appliances, and AFAICT the manufaturers do most of the latter.

In short, it's a program with no enemies, lots of friends, and it's dirt cheap to boot. Why the hell would anyone even consider screwing with it?
posted by jackbishop at 4:00 PM on March 26, 2017 [55 favorites]

Kansas and North Carolina are moving towards opting in to the Medicaid expansion! The Obamacare train is leaving the station with the failure of Trumpcare.
posted by Justinian at 4:01 PM on March 26, 2017 [50 favorites]

Anything about saving energy implies that climate change isn't a Chinese hoax.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:01 PM on March 26, 2017 [19 favorites]

Kansas and North Carolina are moving towards opting in to the Medicaid expansion!

If Kansas gets on board what rationale is there for states like Texas and Florida?
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:04 PM on March 26, 2017

Trump will sign an executive order Tuesday that will begin to undo the "Clean Power Plan," a major initiative of the Obama administration to deal with climate change by reducing carbon pollution from power plants, and violating The Paris Agreement efforts to circumvent climate change.
posted by futz at 4:08 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by jferg at 4:11 PM on March 26, 2017 [46 favorites]

Trump's entire attack on the EPA is what happens when Old Man Yells At Cloud is backed up with the power of the White House. It's still just as nonsensical, but now it has real effects on people and the planet.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:11 PM on March 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

May Trump get washed out to sea when the water from melting polar ice drowns Mar-a-Lago.
posted by emjaybee at 4:13 PM on March 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

Twitter reports that while Fox News is tweeting that Trump was in DC "working," Instagram pics show a different tale.
posted by emjaybee at 4:14 PM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

In short, it's a program with no enemies, lots of friends, and it's dirt cheap to boot. Why the hell would anyone even consider screwing with it?

Re the Energy Star program being on the chopping block: It's also worth remembering that this program did not exist in the 1950's, the time frame that most closely fits Trump's comfort zone, as nearly as I can figure. He likely thinks that the Energy Star data is too much information when buying appliances. And, for low information people, maybe it is?

I really shudder to think of the jumbled mental processes of people who can make sense of and use cell phones and their apps yet not consider energy efficiency data (and a lower power bill with the added bonus of a more protected environment) as info they can use.

Trump seems to be intent on eliminating the more recently created governmental departments and agencies and I've wondered if he isn't trying to get back to when he's most comfortable. It would be better if he discovered if his constituency as a whole supports this, but as he said the other day in TIME, "I'm president and you're not." True enough for now, but being president doesn't equate to being king, sadly for him.
posted by Silverstone at 4:20 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

Instagram pics show a different tale.

I can't remember who said it on twitter, but "watching golf" are the only two words that rival "low energy" for signifying "low energy."
posted by chris24 at 4:20 PM on March 26, 2017 [47 favorites]

White House Adviser Stephen Miller’s Santa Monica High School Classmates Wonder ‘WTF?’
“This young man was lucky he wasn’t beat up,” a former school counselor tells TheWrap. “He was very offensive”

Sophie Goldstein, who attended Hebrew School classes with Miller at Santa Monica’s Beth Shir Shalom synagogue, recalled a story that she said exemplifies who Miller was back then.

Her class, which encouraged debates, was discussing how to fairly deal with a leftover slice of pizza, when Miller did something she said stopped everyone in their tracks.

“In the middle of the discussion, Stephen just slapped his open palm down on the middle of the pizza slice, palm to cheese,” Goldstein recalled. “That effectively ended the discussion. Obviously nobody was going to touch some gross pubescent pizza slice.”
posted by futz at 4:20 PM on March 26, 2017 [16 favorites]

If it takes more than 20 minutes in-and-out, that's a de-facto denial of service attack on the vote.

I don't think I've ever waited 20 minutes to vote in my life. I would be annoyed if it took 20 minutes. Granted, I generally avoid peak times, but still. Normal is 5 minutes.

(This is in the 6th largest metro area in the US, in a state that actually wants people to vote.)
posted by ryanrs at 4:24 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

That Stephen Miller anecdote neatly illustrates the first two GOP platform planks:

1. Screw you, got mine.

2. If I can't have it, nobody can have it.
posted by darkstar at 4:26 PM on March 26, 2017 [40 favorites]

futz: Trump will sign an executive order Tuesday that will begin to undo the "Clean Power Plan," a major initiative of the Obama administration to deal with climate change by reducing carbon pollution from power plants, and violating The Paris Agreement efforts to circumvent climate change.

FUCK. Remember this shit whenever someone tries to tell you Ivanka is a moderating influence. Leo Dicaprio arranged a meeting with Trump through her where he talked passionately about the need for action on climate change and how it's actually an opportunity to create jobs in the green energy sector. Fuck all good it did. If she can't even help save our planet, why does she need an office in the White House?
posted by bluecore at 4:26 PM on March 26, 2017 [13 favorites]

Why is he doing this?

Spite.

Is any further reason necessary?
posted by Devonian at 4:31 PM on March 26, 2017 [18 favorites]

Frank Schaeffer on how to get angry Trump voters to turn their anger on Trump and the Republican party:

In other words, we need a Democratic Party version of jujitsu rather than more futile reasoned debate.

Here’s where to begin: As Trump enters his third month in office, he’s already established at least one record: he’s the president most open and willing to use the prestige of the White House to enrich himself and his family.

As health care slips away for the working elderly poor, as lower middle-class students are crushed by debt, as vets languish, as the lies mount… hammer home the Trump self-enrichment scheme! Turn his much bragged-about wealth against him!

From late night comedians, SNL, Samantha Bee, to Congress and the pages of the New York Times, opponents of Trump must pound on and repeat this theme: Trump is getting rich as he spreads misery on others. Trump is a fraud! Trump is NOT keeping his promises to his voters. Trump has let his voters down. Trump is betraying the people who put him in power.

posted by OnceUponATime at 4:41 PM on March 26, 2017 [27 favorites]

I haven’t seen it mentioned - maybe far upthread?- but the Robert Draper’s New York Times Magazine profile of the administration is quite good: “Trump vs. Congress: Now What?”
posted by Going To Maine at 4:43 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Why is he doing this?

Trump is the type of "businessman" who sees all regulations as impediments to making even more money and therefore they're all bad.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:44 PM on March 26, 2017

Why is he doing this?

Spite.

Is any further reason necessary?

Who -or what- is the President spiting? It’s not that the President isn’t a spiteful man, but spite usually has a target.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:45 PM on March 26, 2017

Why is he doing this?

Trump is the type of “businessman” who sees all regulations as impediments to making even more money and therefore they're all bad.

This is all, of course, assuming that Trump knows what’s in the budget, beyond in very broad strokes.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:46 PM on March 26, 2017

Who -or what- is the President spiting?

Bannon and Trump hate regulations and barriers to doing business. Trump feels he's been screwed by environmental laws and environmentalists. Trump loves revenge.
posted by futz at 4:49 PM on March 26, 2017

I think carrying out conversations about Trump's motivations requires keeping in mind that "Trump," here, isn't a person but instead a synecdoche for the collection of competing groups within the white house that are attempting to take advantage of Trump's imbecility. The opinions, ideas, and motivations of the actual old man named Trump have only a small influence on the actions that the white house takes.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:50 PM on March 26, 2017 [37 favorites]

The Secret Service has spent $16k so far on golf cart rentals for Trump trips to Mar-a-Lago.
posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on March 26, 2017 [21 favorites]

Who -or what- is the President spiting? It’s not that the President isn’t a spiteful man, but spite usually has a target.
.
Obama? Have you seen the White house correspondent's dinner where Obama roasted the hell out of the world's most sensitive narcissist?
posted by benzenedream at 4:53 PM on March 26, 2017 [15 favorites]

Who -or what- is the President spiting?

Liberals love the environment. So fuck them. And fuck the environment. Also they didn't vote for Trump, so fuck everything they love and hold dear, because Republican governance is punitive. Republicans don't give a shit if their grand children won't be able to grow food, as long as it makes liberals today cry.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:55 PM on March 26, 2017 [46 favorites]

He's also doing this because a lot of the rubes who voted for him imagine this will bring back Coal 4Evah.
posted by kewb at 5:01 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

He's also doing this because a lot of the rubes who voted for him imagine this will bring back Coal 4Evah.

Big Environment has standing in the way of Americans' freedom to have to shovel coal into their @#$% dishwasher.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:04 PM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

the actual old man named Trump

He wanders around the Southwest, driving a limo-for-hire, only to be pulled back in by events outside his control, forced to make one last deal.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:09 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

Spiteful toward Obama for sure, but probably toward everyone but his adoring MAGAphiles. I'd imagine being called out time and again for his bullshit both by the public and by the actual respected, or at least philanthropic, billionaires that he was trying to lump himself in with probably led to his reclusive habits of watching cable news at home by himself, planning how to get back at everyone. Total comic book villain.
posted by p3t3 at 5:10 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

If Kansas gets on board what rationale is there for states like Texas and Florida?

It's called Obama-care. That's all the reason they need. Republicans were fine with Romney-care.
posted by JackFlash at 5:11 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

I think Trump is taking revenge for every time the EPA or environmental activists fought his right to destroy wetlands with one of his projects. Every time someone said undeveloped land is beautiful.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:20 PM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

The Secret Service has spent $16k so far on golf cart rentals for Trump trips to Mar-a-Lago.

...okay but c'mon now, who among us wouldn't blow 16 grand on golf cart rentals if we had even the flimsiest excuse.
posted by supercrayon at 5:26 PM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

You mean there isn't a bullet proof gold plated Golf Cart One yet??
posted by ian1977 at 5:28 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

Remember resisters this sage advice:
"Let your opponent(s) show you how they'd like to loose"
posted by robbyrobs at 5:30 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

He's also doing this because a lot of the rubes who voted for him imagine this will bring back Coal 4Evah.

Other shit Trump will bring back that retrograde white people are into:
-the steno pool
-the cabbage patch OR the running man OR the roger rabbit (only one, not all three)
-saying "Wait til your father gets home." unironically
-rotary phones
-those paper cones you used to get water in
-hansom cabs, horses to be provided at taxpayer expense
-brunette James Bond
-using cassettes to tape your favorite song off the radio
posted by supercrayon at 5:34 PM on March 26, 2017 [15 favorites]

The Secret Service has spent $16k so far on golf cart rentals for Trump trips to Mar-a-Lago ...

... paid directly to Donald J Trump.

No word on how much Trump is charging Secret Service for rooms per night.
posted by JackFlash at 5:36 PM on March 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

Report: Ryan pleaded on one knee for ObamaCare repeal vote

That is why trump says he still likes him.
posted by futz at 5:38 PM on March 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

There's so many asshole things Trump has done over the years, this thing from a couple of years ago is just one more infuriating example:
In Renovation of Golf Club, Donald Trump Also Dressed Up History

Between the 14th hole and the 15th tee of one of the club’s two courses, Mr. Trump installed a flagpole on a stone pedestal overlooking the Potomac, to which he affixed a plaque purportedly designating “The River of Blood.”

“Many great American soldiers, both of the North and South, died at this spot,” the inscription reads. “The casualties were so great that the water would turn red and thus became known as ‘The River of Blood.’ ”

The inscription, beneath his family crest and above Mr. Trump’s full name, concludes: “It is my great honor to have preserved this important section of the Potomac River!”

Like many of Mr. Trump’s claims, the inscription was evidently not fact-checked.

“No. Uh-uh. No way. Nothing like that ever happened there,” said Richard Gillespie, the executive director of the Mosby Heritage Area Association...

posted by readery at 5:40 PM on March 26, 2017 [32 favorites]

Jesus:

But they also show the fierce support some offered to leadership -- like freshman Rep. Brian Mast of Florida, who lost both legs in 2010 in Afghanistan and called on colleagues to unite behind the bill as he and his Army colleagues had done on the battlefield.

You would think that this person would understand the need for good healthcare? I am sure that the VA hospitals do some great things but holy hell is it riddled with problems and failures.
posted by futz at 5:44 PM on March 26, 2017

Going to Maine, that photo is downright archetypal resistance.

It reminds me of the guy standing in front of the Tienanmen tanks, or the students sitting peacefully while being pepper sprayed by the UC Davis guard.

Only nekkid.
posted by darkstar at 5:45 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

DCCC is out with ads against 14 Republicans who voted for the AHCA in committee.
posted by zachlipton at 5:47 PM on March 26, 2017 [37 favorites]

I am watching this right now - George Lakoff talking about strict father morality, the conservative moral hierarchy, and other bits of conservative thought that I've thus far been unable to understand. He's also talking about framing issues correctly to make sure we aren't emphasizing whatever terrible thing Trump & cronies are spewing.

Found via Wall-Of-Us.
posted by hilaryjade at 5:48 PM on March 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

like freshman Rep. Brian Mast of Florida, who lost both legs in 2010 in Afghanistan and called on colleagues to unite behind the bill as he and his Army colleagues had done on the battlefield.

my god, no wonder our action in Afghanistan's been such a mess if we sent our soldiers there to defend the Republican health care bill. that seems very misguided with regard to both strategy and location.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:49 PM on March 26, 2017 [16 favorites]

At one point, the paper said, House Speaker Paul Ryan (Wis.) got down on one knee to plead with Rep. Don Young of Alaska – the longest-serving Republican in Congress -- to support the bill. (He was unsuccessful.)

The moments highlighted by the Post during the Republican conference negotiations show what a tough battle Ryan and his deputies faced in whipping the vote.
But they also show the fierce support some offered to leadership -- like freshman Rep. Brian Mast of Florida, who lost both legs in 2010 in Afghanistan and called on colleagues to unite behind the bill as he and his Army colleagues had done on the battlefield.

At another point, a Republican shouted, “Burn the ships” to Majority Whip Steve Scalise, invoking the command a 14th century Spanish conquistador gave his crew when they landed in Mexico.

The message was clear, the Post said –- the Republicans felt there was no turning back.

The GOP was ultimately unable to coalesce around the party’s plan and Ryan pulled the bill from the floor Friday, when it was clear it did not have the votes to pass.

This is just an orgy of people who have a tenuous grasp on history and literally no capacity for learning from it.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:51 PM on March 26, 2017 [23 favorites]

the fact that you fought in a war doesn't mean you are owed one bit of deference for shitty legislation
posted by thelonius at 5:51 PM on March 26, 2017 [42 favorites]

invoking the command a 14th century Spanish conquistador gave his crew when they landed in Mexico.

Uh, the fourteenth century is the 1300s. The Spanish invasion of Mexico was in the 1500s.

/Gives The Hill side-eye
posted by dhens at 5:53 PM on March 26, 2017 [32 favorites]

freshman Rep. Brian Mast of Florida, who lost both legs in 2010 in Afghanistan and called on colleagues to unite behind the bill as he and his Army colleagues had done on the battlefield.

As I understand it, those colleagues were the beneficiaries of single-payer healthcare, and in cases like Mr Mast's, could confidently expect to remain covered for life.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:54 PM on March 26, 2017 [12 favorites]

At another point, a Republican shouted, “Burn the ships” to Majority Whip Steve Scalise,

Not a good idea, never know when they'll come in handy for something
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:58 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

invoking the command a 14th century Spanish conquistador gave his crew when they landed in Mexico.

Uh, the fourteenth century is the 1300s. The Spanish invasion of Mexico was in the 1500s.

In all fairness, the GOP seems content to reset the calendar of social progress to the 19th century, and to expect the USA to catch up with the rest of the developed world in its healthcare at some point in the 23rd century.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:00 PM on March 26, 2017

"But they also show the fierce support some offered to leadership -- like freshman Rep. Brian Mast of Florida, who lost both legs in 2010 in Afghanistan and called on colleagues to unite behind the bill as he and his Army colleagues had done on the battlefield. "

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL) (Lt.C.-Ret.), who lost both legs AND an arm in Iraq in 2004, would like to invite Rep. Mast to go fuck himself: "Senators aren't supposed to give speeches during a vote, but Sen. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., a disabled Iraq War veteran, ignored the rule. As the presiding senator was gaveling for order, Duckworth said, "For all those with pre-existing conditions, I stand on prosthetic legs to vote no!""
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:02 PM on March 26, 2017 [90 favorites]

Deleted the clickbait with badly misleading headline, and responses.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 6:10 PM on March 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

I wasn't basing my comment on GOP talking points at all. The VA has had major problems.
posted by futz at 6:14 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

As health care slips away for the working elderly poor, as lower middle-class students are crushed by debt, as vets languish, as the lies mount… hammer home the Trump self-enrichment scheme! Turn his much bragged-about wealth against him!

Trump's supporters already know he's doing that. It's the most obvious thing in the world. Even they aren't dumb enough to miss it. They're fine with it.

They genuinely don't care about any degree of hypocrisy as long as it pisses off liberals.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:16 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

Uh, the fourteenth century is the 1300s. The Spanish invasion of Mexico was in the 1500s

that's why they had to burn the boats, they were so embarassed to get there 200 years early

thus it was an exhortation to Steve Scalise et al. to remember that sometimes you fuck everything up so bad you have to burn it down and pretend it never happened and hope nobody saw you
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:21 PM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

NYT: Icahn Raises Ethics Flags With Dual Roles as Investor and Trump Adviser. Carl Icahn is "special adviser to the president" on regulatory matters but not subject to any ethics rules, and is using his position to push for changes that would benefit his investments.
posted by zachlipton at 6:22 PM on March 26, 2017 [12 favorites]

Not really, no. In general the VA is well liked by its veteran constituents.

The VA has *literally* the world's finest EHR system VistA, built with our tax dollars, providing cradle-to-grave services worldwide.

We give this out to EVERY PROVIDER in the country, and the can use the resources wasted on proprietary, incompatible systems for patient care.

It's one of my pet peeves, because it's SUCH low-hanging fruit to deliver better care to everyone. AND WE ALREADY PAID FOR IT.
posted by mikelieman at 6:24 PM on March 26, 2017 [31 favorites]

If the DNC really wanted to put the fear of god into the Republicans they would put everything they can into defeating Ted Cruz in 2018. I think there's an actual chance based on Texas trending more and more purple, even in 2016, demographics, and also have you SEEN Ted Cruz? No one likes that guy, especially his constituents.

Now it would probably take an unprecedented full court press, including a lot of outreach and registration drives in Latino communities. But there's a small army of newly radicalized Democratic Texas soccer moms looking for something to do.

And if Texas looks for a second like it might be in play? That should TERRIFY the GOP. You want a GOP ready to cut deals with a new Democratic majority in 2019? Texas, y'all.
posted by threeturtles at 6:28 PM on March 26, 2017 [55 favorites]

I hate to break it to you, but they're about to throw away VistA, despite it having the highest user satisfaction of any EHR out there, thanks to A 40-year 'conspiracy' at the VA. It's a horror story, and they're going to spend tens to billions of dollars for something that, knowing how federal IT goes, won't work and may end up killing patients.
posted by zachlipton at 6:29 PM on March 26, 2017 [24 favorites]

Not really, no. In general the VA is well liked by its veteran constituents.

Quoted for truth.

My stepdad, now deceased, was the veteran of two wars (WW2 and Korea) and received Purple Hearts in each. The first was when he had a portion of his skull blown away when a German 88 took off the conn of his LCM, where he was manning the control to lower the ramp during the lesser known Allied amphibious assault in southern France (Operation Dragoon). The second was when he took an enemy round through his chest, about half an inch away from his aorta, on the retreat from the Yalu.

It was diabetes that eventually got him, though. Failing kidneys, an amputated leg, etc. Through it all - and I accompanied him on many a V.A. trip while he was living with me - he was generally quite positive about the V.A. as an institution.

Admittedly, he was in a murderous mood when he woke up from what he had been told would be surgery to reconstruct the veins in his lower leg, to find that the surgeon had chosen instead to amputate it beneath the knee.

But while he never forgave that particular surgeon, he had very positive relationships with the other physicians and staff, and always expressed gratitude that the V.A. was providing free, quality care, otherwise. And that's here in Arizona, which has had serious scandals lately about wait lists, etc.
posted by darkstar at 6:31 PM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

WhiteHouse.gov petition to stop normal business until Russia investigation is complete. (It's actually addressed to Congress. Not sure if that makes sense or not. Still, I would love to see it take off.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:31 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

I hate to break it to you, but they're about to throw away VistA, despite it having the highest user satisfaction of any EHR out there, thanks to A 40-year 'conspiracy' at the VA. It's a horror story, and they're going to spend tens to billions of dollars for something that, knowing how federal IT goes, won't work and may end up killing patients.

Inarticulate screams of rage!
posted by mikelieman at 6:33 PM on March 26, 2017 [13 favorites]

That Stephen Miller anecdote neatly illustrates the first two GOP platform planks:

I think it's a simpler lesson than that: someone can always break the social contract. A lesson that would be better taught than "that guy's a dick," and something that we apparently don't have defenses for when it happens in real life.
posted by rhizome at 6:34 PM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

And I think that's a good question to ask at town halls, if I do say so myself.
posted by rhizome at 6:35 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's what extrajudicial redass beatdowns were invented for, tbh.
posted by darkstar at 6:36 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's what extrajudicial redass beatdowns were invented for, tbh.

Perhaps thankfully, this is not yet a movie plot.
posted by rhizome at 6:38 PM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

If the DNC really wanted to put the fear of god into the Republicans they would put everything they can into defeating Ted Cruz in 2018.

I thought Ted Cruz' face was already doing that.
posted by uosuaq at 6:39 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

Since this thread started off on with a Warren Zevon references, it's not a derail to say that Steve Earle's "Amerika v. 6.0 (The Best We Can Do)" from 2002 is still pretty relevant...

Look around
There's doctors down on Wall Street
Sharpenin' their scalpels and tryin' to cut a deal
Meanwhile, back at the hospital
We got accountants playin' God and countin' out the pills
Yeah, I know, that sucks - that your HMO
Ain't doin' what you thought it would do
But everybody's gotta die sometime and we can't save everybody
It's the best that we can do
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:41 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

I can't fathom why Trump would consider putting Energy Star on the chopping block in the first place.

He definitely has no idea what EnergyStar is or anything else in his budget recommendation that doesn't personally concern him, his image, or his wealth. Can anyone imagining him giving any kind of shit for energy efficiency?

Nah.
posted by petebest at 6:46 PM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

> Taking as much profit out of healthcare as possible is so damn obvious.

QFT.

Single payer/negotiator is sound policy.

The only losers are "healthcare" industry CEOs (and a huge tranch of middle managers/administrators and other gross inefficiencies like hiring extra people at clinics that deal with the massive headache of different insurance policies).
posted by porpoise at 6:48 PM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

If Kansas gets on board what rationale is there for states like Texas and Florida?

I know I sound like a broken record, but: rational(e) has nothing to do with it. The GOP is basically running on spite these days. They would rather doom themselves and their supposed loved ones to needless early deaths than benefit from something with a black guy's name on it that might help liberals too.
posted by tocts at 6:49 PM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

omg, that NYT article about the golf club/River of Blood that readery linked to above, is just a microcosm of Trumpfuckery, from 2015. Three history experts contacted by the writer disputed his claim, saying the battle was 11 miles upstream and his response was:

1) Yeah, well there was a river ford used by Confederate troops nearby.

But no one died there.

2) "How would they know? Were they there?"

3) Anyway, "numerous historians" had told him.

But he didn't remember their names.

4) Well, actually the historians had spoken to "his people".

Wouldn't identify those people.

In the end: “Write your story the way you want to write it,” Mr. Trump said finally, when pressed unsuccessfully for anything that could corroborate his claim. “You don’t have to talk to anybody. It doesn’t make any difference. But many people were shot. It makes sense.”
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:50 PM on March 26, 2017 [37 favorites]

The GOP is basically running on spite these days.

This. No way in hell is Rick Scott going to expand medicare in Florida. Not happening folks.
posted by photoslob at 6:55 PM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

This. No way in hell is Rick Scott going to expand [Medicaid] in Florida. Not happening folks.

Don't be so sure, I'm sure Seema Verma is willing to offer enough latitude to states that they can find all kinds of new ways to fuck with poor people through expanded Medicaid. And as a Floridian, you already know Rick Scott loves to fuck with poor people trying to get benefits (see also: drug testing TANF recipients).
posted by indubitable at 7:03 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

WaPo: Trump taps Kushner to lead a SWAT team to fix government with business ideas: President Trump plans to unveil a new White House office on Monday with sweeping authority to overhaul the federal bureaucracy and fulfill key campaign promises — such as reforming care for veterans and fighting opioid addiction — by harvesting ideas from the business world and, potentially, privatizing some government functions.

The White House Office of American Innovation, to be led by Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, will operate as its own nimble power center within the West Wing and will report directly to Trump. Viewed internally as a SWAT team of strategic consultants, the office will be staffed by former business executives and is designed to infuse fresh thinking into Washington, float above the daily political grind and create a lasting legacy for a president still searching for signature achievements.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:11 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Democrats work for the nation in spite of the Republicans.
The Republicans work against the nation to spite the Democrats.

I think the evidence of the past ten years adequately supports both statements.
posted by Devonian at 7:12 PM on March 26, 2017 [50 favorites]

is designed to infuse fresh thinking into Washington, float above the daily political grind and create a lasting legacy for a president still searching for signature achievements.

what's the emoji for "I'll be right back after I change my underpants because I just was laughing so hard when I read this, I lost bladder control and pissed on myself"?
posted by mikelieman at 7:14 PM on March 26, 2017 [19 favorites]

What with this and solving peace in the Middle East, Jared is going to be busy.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:17 PM on March 26, 2017 [19 favorites]

Wow, conflict of interest gets its own government office now?

Also in whatever society emerges from the smoking crater of the Trump presidency can we please put a bullet in the back of the head of the idea that "business ideas" can "fix" government?
posted by Artw at 7:17 PM on March 26, 2017 [34 favorites]

President Trump plans to unveil a new White House office on Monday
Hmmm ANOTHER arm of the government? Does NOT sound like fiscal conservative ism or smaller government to me.
posted by robbyrobs at 7:18 PM on March 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'd joke that he's getting rid of two arms of the govermenr to make way for it, but these moron fuckers would take it seriously.
posted by Artw at 7:19 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

The White House Office of American Innovation, to be led by Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, will operate as its own nimble power center within the West Wing and will report directly to Trump. Viewed internally as a SWAT team of strategic consultants

Aside from all fucking potentially horrible implications of this...

It's kinda hard to be SWAT-y from your Aspen ski lodge.
posted by futz at 7:25 PM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

What business experience does Kushner have exactly? As Yglesias just put it while I was writing this, "Kushner’s business experience consists of inheriting his dad’s company at a young age after Chris Christie sent him to jail." It's the most "born on third base" story ever to inherit real estate in one of the most expensive parts of the country, not completely screw it up, and be declared a business genius.

For all the business-people Trump keeps talking up, most all of them are just investors, traders, responsible for shuffling money around. Have any of them actually been responsible for a business that actually produced a product where customer satisfaction mattered? Where they had to lead a large team that developed a new product or service, solving problems and creating something customers would want? If we have to have government-like-a-business, can we at least have some managers who have the slightest experience managing something rather than just owning stuff?
posted by zachlipton at 7:25 PM on March 26, 2017 [70 favorites]

Yeah, Rick Scott is another one for the bees. He proved his GOP bona fides when he oversaw the biggest Medicare fraud in history, and isn't letting up now. I'm watching the Prosecutor Ayala issue with great interest.

And a little deciphering of the ridiculous Sir Jared's SWAT Team of Bidnessthinkery:

"...designed to infuse fresh thinking into Washington"

= It will reach unprecedented levels of venality...really you won't believe how corrupt it will be

"float above the daily political grind"

= It will be completely unreviewable and unaccountable to anyone outside of the family

"and create a lasting legacy for a president still searching for signature achievements."

Where "signature achievements" is Trumpspeak for "opportunities to peel a few hundred million more out of this sweet gig."
posted by darkstar at 7:28 PM on March 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

GOP=the party of smaller* government**

*smaller in this case means less transparent

**government in this case means not "by the people, for the people" but by private industry, for the benefit of shareholders
posted by chaoticgood at 7:28 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

For all the business-people Trump keeps talking up, most all of them are just investors, traders, responsible for shuffling money around. Have any of them actually been responsible for a business that actually produced a product where customer satisfaction mattered? Where they had to lead a large team that developed a new product or service, solving problems and creating something customers would want?

And Mitt Romney was a corporate raider who orchestrated hostile takeovers, restructured the company to steal all the equity for himself and load the corpse up with debt to sink the pensioners left holding the bag.

That is the Republican idea of running things like a business. Inherit wealth, and siphon more wealth away from the people who actually built it up from the ground.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:30 PM on March 26, 2017 [46 favorites]

Trump administration weighs deeper involvement in Yemen war

More war. I'm sure that's exactly what the region needs.
posted by zachlipton at 7:32 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

When this shit is over can we make libertarians illegal?
posted by Artw at 7:33 PM on March 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

Red-ass beatdowns. I'm telling ya.
posted by darkstar at 7:34 PM on March 26, 2017

President Trump plans to unveil a new White House office on Monday

Office of Blaming Immigrants for Everything or Office of Dismantling Obamacare?
posted by tobascodagama at 7:36 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

Oh, I see, it's the Office of the Federal Stasi.

I though the only reason Kushner didn't fall afoul of nepotism laws is that he didn't have an official position?
posted by tobascodagama at 7:38 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

Call white supremacist violence by its name: Terrorism

Most of all, designating these crimes as terrorism sends a message to vulnerable communities that their fears are understood, and that violent white supremacy is recognized as a threat to American security as well as to individual victims.
posted by futz at 7:39 PM on March 26, 2017 [52 favorites]

I kid about the beatdowns, of course. It's not cool to suggest violence against your political opponents.

Mainly because they have most of the guns, but also the morality thing.
posted by darkstar at 7:39 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

And Mitt Romney was a corporate raider who orchestrated hostile takeovers, restructured the company to steal all the equity for himself and load the corpse up with debt to sink the pensioners left holding the bag.

If you go back one cycle further, John McCain started his career in the Navy, where his father was an admiral. And then before him was George W. Bush, which, 'nuff said. Now that I think of it, who was the last Republican presidential candidate who wasn't a silver spoon failson? Reagan?
posted by indubitable at 7:43 PM on March 26, 2017 [15 favorites]

@ddiamond: The new office that Kushner will run sounds intriguing… but Obama had a very similar idea first. (screencaps)
posted by Going To Maine at 7:45 PM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

They 1000% should classify white supremacist violence as terrorism.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:45 PM on March 26, 2017 [16 favorites]

If you go back one cycle further, John McCain started his career in the Navy, where his father was an admiral. And then before him was George W. Bush, which, 'nuff said. Actually, now that I think of it, who was the last Republican presidential candidate who wasn't a silver spoon failson? Reagan?
Lets go back further
Surveying political rhetoric and policy, popular literature and scientific theories over four hundred years, Isenberg upends assumptions about America’s supposedly class-free society––where liberty and hard work were meant to ensure real social mobility. Poor whites were central to the rise of the Republican Party in the early nineteenth century, and the Civil War itself was fought over class issues nearly as much as it was fought over slavery.
Isenberg's excellent book White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America
posted by robbyrobs at 7:47 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

who was the last Republican presidential candidate who wasn't a silver spoon failson? Reagan?

Bob Dole was the nominee in 1996. He grew up relatively poor IIRC. He also fought in some brutal battles in Italy where he earned a purple heart for severe wounds from a german machine gun nest which cost him most of the use of his arm. He also got a bronze star for attempting to rescue a downed radioman while under fire.
posted by Justinian at 7:47 PM on March 26, 2017 [24 favorites]

Also, uh George H.W. Bush wasn't my favorite President by a long shot but he was a serious man with serious experience. Not any sort of failson.
posted by Justinian at 7:49 PM on March 26, 2017 [31 favorites]

In my own mental taxonomy (which I grant may be useless to anyone else), Eisenhower was the last Republican President in the traditional sense. Nixon was a transitional figure, bridging the era from when the GOP actually had principles and competence to the modern era when they've all been about ideology and partisanship.

I respect Eisenhower. I've not been able to muster respect for any Republican President since him.
posted by darkstar at 7:51 PM on March 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

That said, I agree with Justinian that GHW Bush, though he was definitely the scion of a wealthy (and oil-drenched) family, at least had a serious approach to the job as well as the good sense not to try to take Baghdad for his trophy wall.
posted by darkstar at 7:55 PM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

the Civil War was fought almost as much over class issues as it was fought over slavery.

*sigh*

Every once in awhile, I'd like to pretend it's possible to pay attention to class issues in America and yet not lose sight of race and gender-related inequalities.

And then people make these kinds of statements.

Forget it. There are reasons some of us feel more comfortable with corporate Democrats than liberal populism, and it has everything to do with the privilege and willful blindness of the people representing the populist perspective.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:56 PM on March 26, 2017 [47 favorites]

Trump administration weighs deeper involvement in Yemen war

Oh, Lord.

We all know what happens when the US gets involved in a war: the country disintegrates (further) and is taken over by bandits. But in this case, the bandits will be running a thinly-populated country that borders the path from the Indian Ocean to the Suez Canal, which leads to the Mediterranean. More particularly, Yemen commands the narrowest point of the Red Sea, the Bab-el-Mandab, which is about 20 miles / 30 km across. It's effectively even narrower because there's an island in the middle, but whatever. So basically every freighter going from Asia to Europe will be at the mercy of pirates and/or missile attacks, and the attackers will have an entire hinterland to disappear into.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:00 PM on March 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

>who was the last Republican presidential candidate who wasn't a silver spoon failson?

>George H.W. Bush?

George H.W. Bush was the son of Prescott Bush, a banker and U.S. Senator.
George W. Bush and George H.W. Bush and Prescott Bush and their grandfather James Bush were all Skull and Bones Yalies going back the the Civil War. Silver spoons all around according to Ann Richardson.
posted by JackFlash at 8:01 PM on March 26, 2017 [12 favorites]

They 1000% should classify white supremacist violence as terrorism.

The gymnastics involved in not doing so are incredible.
posted by Artw at 8:08 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm not really sure Yemen could get any worse but I am pretty sure they will give it a go.
posted by Artw at 8:09 PM on March 26, 2017

Elizabeth Spiers‏, who ran the Observer for Kushner: "In my experience: Jared will give people who have experience in an industry he's never worked in advice re: how to do their jobs."
posted by zachlipton at 8:10 PM on March 26, 2017 [41 favorites]

Elizabeth Spiers‏, who ran the Observer for Kushner: "In my experience: Jared will give people who have experience in an industry he's never worked in advice re: how to do their jobs."

OF COURSE he's a 'splainer. I've got some unsolicited advice for him...
posted by futz at 8:13 PM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

They 1000% should classify white supremacist violence as terrorism.

The gymnastics involved in not doing so are incredible

Look, it's just hundreds of lone wolves who all happen to go the same websites, listen to the same radio and TV personalities, and belong to the same communities where they egg each other on with violent rhetoric. I'm not sure why you're insisting that there's some kind of connection here.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:16 PM on March 26, 2017 [69 favorites]

Remember when SPLC and the ADL successfully smacked down Terrible Tom Metzger for inciting the violence caused by a few of those lone wolves? Better times, those.
posted by Yowser at 8:20 PM on March 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

The White House Office of American Innovation, to be led by Jared Kushner,

That sounded so cool until the second part....
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:22 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

everyone talks about the times Russian security forces threw people out of high windows nobody ever mentions all those times Russian security forces saved people who were falling out of windows
posted by um at 8:29 PM on March 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

Pence revives talk of U.S. moving Tel Aviv embassy to Jerusalem

This is beyond irresponsible and inflammatory. Is there anyone that this administration hasn't pissed off yet? *Rhetorical*
posted by futz at 8:32 PM on March 26, 2017 [14 favorites]

everyone talks about the times Russian security forces threw people out of high windows nobody ever mentions all those times Russian security forces saved people who were falling out of windows

um, I too like talking about things that have never happened ;)
posted by futz at 8:35 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ryan is probably safe as speaker because nobody particularly wants to be Henry VIII's next wife. — supposedly said by "a strategist" cited in a paywalled WSJ article
posted by XMLicious at 8:37 PM on March 26, 2017 [12 favorites]

The best part is that Chris Christie will lead an opioid abuse commission. It's a nice little insult: "hey, after you've spent the last year begging for a job, we finally found something for you to do. Go run this committee so we can blame you for not singlehandedly solving a massive national problem."

I found out yesterday that a woman I knew when she was a girl -- we used to ride bikes together when we were kids, we went to kindergarten together -- died of an overdose. I have literally a half dozen stories like that. It's hard to put into words how pissed off it makes me that Christie and Trump are going to bring their particular ideology to this problem.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:38 PM on March 26, 2017 [25 favorites]

Pence revives talk of U.S. moving Tel Aviv embassy to Jerusalem

What is the point of this other than to piss off everybody? Literally nobody wants this, it's dumb as hell, and there isn't even a profit motive.
posted by Artw at 8:38 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

"I dunno. Gotta nuke something!"
posted by um at 8:40 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

> Pence revives talk of U.S. moving Tel Aviv embassy to Jerusalem

What is the point of this other than to piss off everybody?

I think the point is We hobbled the government for years with Benghazi hearings because "Four Americans died!" in an American consulate. Well watch this, because four is nothing! And we're gonna do it on purpose!
posted by XMLicious at 8:46 PM on March 26, 2017 [14 favorites]

"White House Office of American Innovation"

It better be called WHOA!nnovation or I quit America.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:48 PM on March 26, 2017 [51 favorites]

and there isn't even a ~~profit~~ prophet motive.

I am being flippant but this is about more than paper money. $$$ is in play of course but this is involves a much larger end game. A religious end game disguised as politics. Its scope is too vast to put it succinctly, for me at least.
posted by futz at 8:48 PM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

Groan. My comment reads as crazy conspiracy theory. Maybe I'll try to put a FPP together but the mods usually frown upon entering I/IP territory with good reason...
posted by futz at 8:53 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

When this shit is over can we make libertarians illegal?

Just make it so that they're only allowed to propose changes that have been demonstrated to work elsewhere. Elsewhere meaning other countries, not sci-fi books.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:07 PM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

"YOU get a red heifer, and YOU get a red heifer. EVERYBODY gets a red heifer!"

Hey, the Trump has already sounded...
posted by darkstar at 9:07 PM on March 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

JackFlash: "George H.W. Bush was the son of Prescott Bush, a banker and U.S. Senator.
George W. Bush and George H.W. Bush and Prescott Bush and their grandfather James Bush were all Skull and Bones Yalies going back the the Civil War. Silver spoons all around according to Ann Richardson."

Well, yeah...but HW flew 58 combat missions as a Navy pilot in WWII, receiving the Distinguished Flying Cross, started and ran a successful oil company, won two terms to the House, served as ambassador to the UN, chaired the RNC, was de facto ambassador to China, directed the CIA, was a director at the Council for Foreign Relations, and served as VP for 8 years.

I'm not saying that his father's name and money weren't a big help to him starting out, they obviously were. But he was clearly a man who was quite competent and had extensive experience upon becoming President, he was not just sailing along on his name. The contrast to his son is glaring.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:20 PM on March 26, 2017 [68 favorites]

On the Clean Power Plan thing - yes, this is bad, but rolling it back is significantly harder to do than just signing an executive order. Brad Plumer has details.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:23 PM on March 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

I will have stern words for Angela Merkel if this chapter of her autobiography is not titled Die Blechtrumpel.
posted by um at 9:30 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

What is the point of this other than to piss off everybody?

1: You must do everything your enemies don't want you to do, regardless of consequences.
2: If someone tells you not to do something, anything, they are your enemy. Go to 1.
3: DO IT! DO IT! DO ALL OF IT ALL OF THE TIME!
4: If anyone retaliates, that proves you were right all along. Go to 1.
posted by dirge at 9:36 PM on March 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

A comparison of Kushner’s SWAT team to a different Obama initiative than the one mentioned before.

@kressdaniel: Obama literally did this, the US Digital Service. Reporters are using the same language of SWAT teams: https://www.fastcompany.com/3046756/obama-and-his-geeks
posted by Going To Maine at 9:39 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

but HW flew 58 combat missions as a Navy pilot in WWII, receiving the Distinguished Flying Cross,

my dad also fought in WW2, and was a pretty conservative guy his whole life. But the first Gulf War genuinely puzzled him, specifically Bush Senior's involvement. My dad couldn't understand how a man who had experienced real combat could be so eager to go to war.
posted by philip-random at 9:40 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

Good point:
Ivanka Trump once organized a campaign encouraging women to share their job titles
And now she should take her own advice.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:47 PM on March 26, 2017 [16 favorites]

Left out of AHCA fight, Democrats let their grass roots lead — and win

Beltway groups were helping organize the opposition, and did not pretend otherwise. But they were effective because they had actual grass-roots buy-in. Elizabeth Juviler co-founded an Indivisible group in the district of Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-N.J.). “He’d never taken a position against the party,” Juviler said in an interview. “By all accounts, he’s an affable person, but he wasn’t accessible.”

The group, NJ11th for Change, birddogged the Republican congressman with two tactics. First, it held mock town hall events in all four of the counties he represented. “Thousands” of people showed, according to Juviler; all were informed of how to call his office. When the health-care bill was dropped, Frelinghuysen was besieged with calls. And on Friday, he announced that he would oppose AHCA. According to Joe Dinkin, a spokesman for the Working Families Party, there were dozens of stories like that.

“For the first time in a long time, a pretty sizable number of Republicans were more scared of grass-roots energy of the left than of primaries on the right,” said Dinkin.

posted by tonycpsu at 9:49 PM on March 26, 2017 [55 favorites]

And now she should take her own advice.

Favored Daughter
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:18 PM on March 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

but HW flew 58 combat missions as a Navy pilot in WWII, receiving the Distinguished Flying Cross,

my dad also fought in WW2, and was a pretty conservative guy his whole life. But the first Gulf War genuinely puzzled him, specifically Bush Senior's involvement. My dad couldn't understand how a man who had experienced real combat could be so eager to go to war.

My girlfriend's grandfather was an officer on the submarine that picked up GHWB when his plane was shot down over the Pacific. Her grandfather did not have kind words for him. The only specific comment she remembers: "We should've thrown the son of a bitch back in."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:23 PM on March 26, 2017 [13 favorites]

the office will be staffed by former business executives and is designed to infuse fresh thinking into Washington, float above the daily political grind

didn't the AHCA fiasco reveal that "floating above the daily political grind" is exactly what the Trump administration needs less of if they actually want to get their campaign promises turned into actual, like, laws?

every day trump is in office it becomes clearer and clearer that he had no plan for what to do if he won, and he's going to continue to get his ass handed to him all over washington until he figures out that that president and god-emperor actually have significantly different job descriptions
posted by murphy slaw at 10:42 PM on March 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

A comparison of Kushner’s SWAT team to a different Obama initiative than the one mentioned before.

How cute. Once again the trump admin plagerizes Obama.
posted by futz at 10:44 PM on March 26, 2017

At one point, the paper said, House Speaker Paul Ryan (Wis.) got down on one knee to plead with Rep. Don Young of Alaska – the longest-serving Republican in Congress -- to support the bill. (He was unsuccessful.)

I...don't know how to feel about ANYTHING anymore. Don Young was my congressman the day I was born and remains so to this day almost forty years later and this is perhaps the first time I have ever agreed with him. He may even have done it for the right reasons, y'all, because the elimination of geographic subsidies hosed Alaska so spectacularly, and mayyyyybe not just because it wasn't cruel enough.

Up is down, down is up, guess I better keep calling him along with Murkowski.
posted by charmedimsure at 10:51 PM on March 26, 2017 [25 favorites]

There's already the USDS and 18F, which are full of smart, devoted public servants. By all means let the boss's son-in-law ram through a bunch of ill-thought-out technical changes. There's no way that goes bad.

Good thing Donald wants to get rid of some cabinet positions, so he can have spots open for the Secretary of SalesForce and the Secretary of Oracle. In 5 years the national debt will consist mostly of license fees for software that nobody asked for.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:55 PM on March 26, 2017 [16 favorites]

Good thing Donald wants to get rid of some cabinet positions, so he can have spots open for the Secretary of SalesForce and the Secretary of Oracle. In 5 years the national debt will consist mostly of license fees for software that nobody asked for.

Also consulting bills for the implementation. Don't forget about the consultants who will be attracted to this like flies to shit.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:09 PM on March 26, 2017 [14 favorites]

I'm not really sure Yemen could get any worse but I am pretty sure they will give it a go.

A good rule of thumb, in any area: no matter how bad things are, they can always get worse.
posted by nnethercote at 11:10 PM on March 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

The means of war is to make things worse. It's what it's made to do.
posted by rhizome at 11:20 PM on March 26, 2017

The citation about "14th Century" Spanish conquistadores in the Hill article which I pointed out has been fixed.
posted by dhens at 11:23 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

I kind of assume that The Hill is a bit of a garbage pub, similar to The Independent. (Let us note that their story about Merkel being presented with a bill by the President continues to go unconfirmed by anyone else.)
posted by Going To Maine at 11:35 PM on March 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

The citation about "14th Century" Spanish conquistadores in the Hill article which I pointed out has been fixed.

If anyone is still curious about the unnamed conquistador, it was Hernán Cortés in 1519.
posted by sukeban at 11:49 PM on March 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

Yeah I originally thought The Hill was respectable, due to not reading it regularly and their spare design. Over the past year they've proven otherwise.
posted by rhizome at 12:12 AM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Appliance and electronics companies push back on cutting Energy Star program.

This should not be that surprising - in the land of Big Pharma I was regularly called upon to read some pending FDA guidelines with the understanding that if something seemed insanely over the top I was to let our response committee know, but what I was really looking for was them making things too easy - that ideally we wanted the regulations to demand a certain level of diligence to prevent fly by night operations from being able to grossly undercut us in the marketplace by cutting every corner imaginable.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:15 AM on March 27, 2017 [49 favorites]

Regulations are usually in the interest of the incumbents precisely because they raise the barrier to new entrants. Sometimes this interest even overlaps with that of the end consumer of their product!
posted by pharm at 12:57 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

(OK, that was a tad snarky.)
posted by pharm at 12:59 AM on March 27, 2017

Congress gave us twenty dollars this year. We can't even go to the movies.
posted by XMLicious at 1:08 AM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Let us note that their story about Merkel being presented with a bill by the President continues to go unconfirmed by anyone else.

I first saw it reported in the UK Sunday Times: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germany-dismisses-white-houses-intimidating-300bn-bill-for-defence-dl7dk629k
posted by krinklyfig at 1:37 AM on March 27, 2017

Lawfare:
Did the Justice Department Just Admit Doubts Over Trump’s Oath?

previously at Lawfare:
What Happens When We Don’t Believe the President’s Oath?
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:01 AM on March 27, 2017 [22 favorites]

Trump is a fraud! Trump is NOT keeping his promises to his voters. Trump has let his voters down. Trump is betraying the people who put him in power.

Nah, he's a rebel, stickin' it to the Man: as Deng Xiaoping once said, To get rich is glorious! He's doing it for the little people...
posted by y2karl at 3:32 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

The weird thing, at least based on Twitter reports, is that nobody seems to have seen it reported in any of the German papers, where you'd expect to find such a thing. The fact that it's only in the UK press is somewhat suspicious.

They've been distracted by elections in Saarland, but it's at Die Welt and if you search for "Trump rechnung" at Google News, a bunch more sites.
posted by sukeban at 3:37 AM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Good thing Donald wants to get rid of some cabinet positions, so he can have spots open for the Secretary of SalesForce and the Secretary of Oracle.

Secretary of Hella Trump University and Wealthfare
Center for Trump Wine Control
Pussy Inspector Grabbing General
Secretary of Offense
Department of Carbon Dioxide
Secretary of Methane Clathrates
Center of Attention
Chief Twit
Department of Mass Buck Transit...
posted by y2karl at 3:49 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

What is the point of this other than to piss off everybody?

Deus Vult.
posted by valkane at 3:59 AM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Bureau of Bellicose Bullshit
posted by valetta at 4:00 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

When DC Comics made Lex Luthor president, he sold LexCorp. Trump is literally less ethical than a comic book villain.
posted by octothorpe at 4:56 AM on March 27, 2017 [104 favorites]

And more poorly drawn.
posted by y2karl at 5:06 AM on March 27, 2017 [25 favorites]

AP Exclusive: 'Bathroom bill' to cost North Carolina $3.76B Despite Republican assurances that North Carolina's "bathroom bill" isn't hurting the economy, the law limiting LGBT protections will cost the state more than $3.76 billion in lost business over a dozen years, according to an Associated Press analysis.

Over the past year, North Carolina has suffered financial hits ranging from scuttled plans for a PayPal facility that would have added an estimated $2.66 billion to the state's economy to a canceled Ringo Starr concert that deprived a town's amphitheater of about $33,000 in revenue. The blows have landed in the state's biggest cities as well as towns surrounding its flagship university, and from the mountains to the coast.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:17 AM on March 27, 2017 [39 favorites]

When DC Comics made Lex Luthor president, he sold LexCorp. Trump is literally less ethical than a comic book villain.

Flag on the play: I will only tolerate comparisons between Trump and Movie Luthor, the narcissistic moron convinced of his own genius who traveled around in a hot air balloon with a hot lady and a Chris Christie.

Comics Luthor would have Trump begging for scraps from his table. Trump is the Scrappy Doo of men like Comics Luthor.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:35 AM on March 27, 2017 [17 favorites]

(I speak of original Gene Hackman Luthor, of course. Modern Max Landis Luthor is basically Silicon Valley Milo Yiannopoulos, Randian speed bag.)
posted by middleclasstool at 5:37 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump last year: If I'm POTUS I don't think I'd see any of my golf courses again, I just want to stay in WH and "work in my ass off" [video]

---

Also, I missed this yesterday, but interesting.

Hey @RogerJStoneJr. You just referred to Russian hacker Guccifer 2.0 as "her" on CNN. If you only communicated via Twitter, how'd you know?

And video of it.
posted by chris24 at 5:42 AM on March 27, 2017 [50 favorites]

middleclasstool: Also Gene Hackman movie-Luthor is the only one with a toupee to rival Trump's "hair".
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 5:43 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

I kid about the beatdowns

I understood this to be intellectual and electoral beatdowns, natch.

Because somebody somewhere at sometime has to care about true facts! Right? HE'S NOT WEARING ANY CLOTHES!
posted by petebest at 5:46 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Hopefully there's a Froot Loops commercial coming soon.

just want to commend your spelling
posted by thelonius at 5:47 AM on March 27, 2017 [21 favorites]

Senate Committee to Question Jared Kushner Over Meetings With Russians [NYT]

Until now, the White House had acknowledged only an early December meeting between Mr. Kislyak and Mr. Kushner, which occurred at Trump Tower and was also attended by Michael T. Flynn, who would briefly serve as the national security adviser.

Later that month, though, Mr. Kislyak requested a second meeting, which Mr. Kushner asked a deputy to attend in his stead, officials said. At Mr. Kislyak’s request, Mr. Kushner later met with Sergey N. Gorkov, the chief of Vnesheconombank, which the United States placed on its sanctions list after President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia annexed Crimea and began meddling in Ukraine.

posted by melissasaurus at 5:49 AM on March 27, 2017 [17 favorites]

SWAT: Special Whites And Teutonics
posted by valkane at 6:03 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

Senate Committee to Question Jared Kushner Over Meetings With Russians [NYT]

Under oath? pls?
posted by leotrotsky at 6:13 AM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

And Mike Pence is Fred.

Jefferson Beauregard Sessions surely has to be Yabba-Doo?
posted by Myeral at 6:17 AM on March 27, 2017

Under oath and on the record or utterly worthless.
posted by Artw at 6:17 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

Under oath and on the record or utterly worthless.

Republicans still control what happens afterward, so I'm gonna go with whynotboth.gif again.
posted by Etrigan at 6:22 AM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

photoslob This. No way in hell is Rick Scott going to expand medicare in Florida. Not happening folks.

You have to promise to eat a cake if you're wrong or the magic won't work.

Artw What is the point of this other than to piss off everybody? Literally nobody wants this, it's dumb as hell, and there isn't even a profit motive.

The point is to throw a bone to US far right wing religious fruitcakes. Maybe, possibly, as a bonus, to gain some street cred with the extreme far right in Israel, but if so that's a secondary concern at best. The main purpose is to show the extreme far Christian Right that they did the right thing voting for Trump.

They "support" Israel in the sense that they believe Israel must exist (and must be a nation roughly corresponding to their idea of Israel's "Biblical" borders) as a precondition for the Rapture. That way Israel can be destroyed (either by the Antichrist, or by Jesus lobbing heavenly nukes, they have mixed opinions on how it will be destroyed, but they all agree on Israel's destruction), and all the Jews can be sent to eternal torture in hell for killing Jesus, and they can go to Heaven!

Seriously, that's it. As you noted, there's no actual sane group pushing to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem. I think Team Trump decided they needed to do something to appease the far religious right, moving the Embassy basically just takes a memo so there's no work involved but it'll make that constituency very happy, and if there's fallout from the decision they don't give a shit nor are they up enough on the political intricacies in that region to even be aware that moving the Embassy might be disruptive.

Oh, and it has the added bonus that they think us Evil Libtards are horrible anti-Israel villains, so they imagine that we've been keeping the embassy in Tel Aviv basically out of spite and hatred for Israel, so they imagine that moving it is a yuge victory over us losers and will provoke liberal tears. And as everyone knows liberal tears are the single measure of success for any project or government undertaking.
posted by sotonohito at 6:33 AM on March 27, 2017 [27 favorites]

President Trump plans to unveil a new White House office on Monday

Ivanka Trump once organized a campaign encouraging women to share their job titles

I mentioned last week that I called the White House switchboard (202-456-1414) to ask for an office because I'm just as qualified for one as Ivanka Trump. I did it to let them know I'm paying attention and also because, while I feel badly for whomever had to talk to me, I am not sorry to waste as much of this White House's time and resources as possible because they will only use that time to enable bad people to do bad things (I also did it because I thought it was funny).

I really think it would be great if more people did the same thing; call in to let the White House know that Ivanka Trump getting office space is something that we know about and care about and ISN'T NORMAL and ISN'T OKAY and, if you waste some of their time, that's an extra bonus. There are a lot of people calling congressional representatives, which is great! I think we should take this to the White House as well to let them know we're watching. I would love to organize an office space request call-in campaign on behalf of all of us who are just as unqualified as Ivanka but I don't know how to do it.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:40 AM on March 27, 2017 [55 favorites]

On reaching the end of the thread just now, Monday morning, I had a momentary weird sense that we might actually get through all this and still have a country at the other side. An ethically-compromised, war-mongering, incoherent mess of a thing, but something worth trying to fix.

Do I need to make some kind of anti-cake?
posted by aspersioncast at 7:02 AM on March 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

Upside-down cake, obvs
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:17 AM on March 27, 2017 [27 favorites]

From yesterday: They genuinely don't care about any degree of hypocrisy as long as it pisses off liberals.

The fact that the hypocrisy pisses off liberals is part of the appeal for these yo-yos. Far from pretending they're acting in good faith, many Republicans positively revel in the fact that they aren't. Liberals are perceived as valuing good-faith bargaining, so they'll have none of it. Open, unapologetic hypocrisy is an insult to the entire democratic process, but it's like a high-five for this crowd.
posted by Gelatin at 7:18 AM on March 27, 2017 [26 favorites]

all the Jews can be sent to eternal torture in hell for killing Jesus, and they can go to Heaven!

Depending on which flavor of End Times theory you prefer, 144,000 Jews will be saved (because they become Christians) and/or Jews in general get to go to Heaven if they also become Christians.

Rest of the Jews=toast, though. Along with the planet. But then we get a new Earth! Where everyone is a Christian and it's basically pre-Eden Earth with more people.

One assumes this means, ala the Creation Museum trope, that all carnivores would become herbivores again so that the lion could lie down with the lamb and so on.

Look, it's a complicated business turning a 2,000-year-old piece of hallucinatory apocalyptic revenge writing into policy.
posted by emjaybee at 7:19 AM on March 27, 2017 [52 favorites]

MetaFilter: hallucinatory apocalyptic revenge writing
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:21 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

Bake. Dig.
posted by maudlin at 7:23 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

If you realize that many conservatives truly believe we are in the end times, you can understand why they don't care about asset-stripping our institutions.

But by the same token, why do they care so much about the deficit/debt (which like .01% of them understand the difference between)?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:24 AM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

CNN (many twitter comments compiled): Sources tells Jake Tapper that House Intel Chair Nunes seen on WH grounds the day before announcement last week re: Trump surveillance.

CNN reporting Nunes now says he in fact was at White House, used WH SCIF to review 'incidental collection' info he revealed last week . New special assistant to the president, NSC deputy legal adviser Michael Ellis served as Nunes' aide, HPSCI gen. counsel til early March. Nunes aide/House intel comm. general counsel went to work for White House this month. Queried the former aide this morning if he might have been involved in Nunes' disclosure; not immediately heard back yet.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:27 AM on March 27, 2017 [26 favorites]

But he was clearly a man who was quite competent and had extensive experience upon becoming President, he was not just sailing along on his name. The contrast to his son is glaring.

Coincidence he was a one termer? I don't think so. We prefer to elect flashy, charismatic doofuses to people of substance. H.W. really was miles apart from his son and even seemed publicly ashamed and disappointed in him during his second term, as I recall. The culture prefers exciting, blustering personalities to competent thoughtful leadership in general. I'm not convinced the pop culture with its adulation of provocateurism on both sides of the political divide isn't partly to blame for our political and good governance woes. Everybody wants to be a rock star. Nobody wants to be seen as boring and conventional. That's the worst thing you can be in a culture that values charisma over character.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:31 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

But by the same token, why do they care so much about the deficit/debt (which like .01% of them understand the difference between)?

Seeing as how anyone who gave half a rat's ass about the deficit would have to start by cutting military spending, this is just a convenient excuse to defund programs that benefit the poor and support various morally bankrupt liberal institutions like "the arts."
posted by Behemoth at 7:32 AM on March 27, 2017 [26 favorites]

I believe the national debt/deficit indignation is simply something else for low-info folks to get angry about, without having to do or change anything (a smart point was made earlier on a thread about the abortion issue having similar moral math).
posted by erisfree at 7:32 AM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

a smart point was made earlier on a thread about the abortion issue having similar moral math

lol that was me

but as soon as they realize that Those People are getting $1,161 a month from SSDI, that's the problem.

Aaaand we're back to my "people are just horrible" hypothesis.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:36 AM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Is there a German word for the combination of deep relief and wistful regret? From Buzzfeed:

The German government has denied receiving a “bill” or an “invoice” amounting to billions of dollars “owed” by Germany to NATO. “The reports about the mentioned invoice or bill are wrong,” a government spokesperson told BuzzFeed News on Monday.

posted by maudlin at 7:37 AM on March 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

The German government has denied receiving a “bill” or an “invoice” amounting to billions of dollars “owed” by Germany to NATO.

Well, now I'm gonna be wondering all day whether Bannon planted the story just to see how it would go over.
posted by Etrigan at 7:38 AM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

CNN reporting Nunes now says he in fact was at White House, used WH SCIF to review 'incidental collection' info he revealed last week . New special assistant to the president, NSC deputy legal adviser Michael Ellis served as Nunes' aide, HPSCI gen. counsel til early March. Nunes aide/House intel comm. general counsel went to work for White House this month. Queried the former aide this morning if he might have been involved in Nunes' disclosure; not immediately heard back yet.

Remember the absolute fucking shitfit the Republicans had over Bill and Loretta's (admittedly fucking stupid) tarmac powwow?
posted by Talez at 7:39 AM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]

Gelatin: "From yesterday: They genuinely don't care about any degree of hypocrisy as long as it pisses off liberals.

The fact that the hypocrisy pisses off liberals is part of the appeal for these yo-yos. Far from pretending they're acting in good faith, many Republicans positively revel in the fact that they aren't. Liberals are perceived as valuing good-faith bargaining, so they'll have none of it. Open, unapologetic hypocrisy is an insult to the entire democratic process, but it's like a high-five for this crowd."

From seven years ago but still relevant:

today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today: updated daily.

posted by octothorpe at 7:41 AM on March 27, 2017 [19 favorites]

Trump: "I am the dumbest and most craven goober in all of government."
Nunes: "Hold my beer."
posted by Etrigan at 7:42 AM on March 27, 2017 [70 favorites]

Haven't seen @SethAbramson's latest (50 tweet!) megastorm mentioned here yet. It's hard work trawling through it due to Abramson's hyperbole, but seems to boil down to the Dems being prepared to take Steele's testimony if the investigation committee doesn't want it, and the dossier holding up well in the light of the various new revelations about who met who when and where and what they talked about.

I'm naturally reluctant to admit optimism into my life on such matters, but the combination of Russiagate doing the opposite of going away, Trump's manifest combination of lazy incompetence and moronic inability to perform basic cognition, and the GOP's growing realisation that it's lost its political pilot's license, makes me think of the old joke that all Russian history can be written in five words - "And then it got worse".

Where, exactly, are they going to go except downhill?
posted by Devonian at 7:45 AM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Frowner: And it's a contrast between capitalism and democracy - even in the corrupt, morally empty world of Republican politics, there's the ghost of democracy and Bannon can't just expect the kind of unremitting compliance he might get in the corporate world.

I think it's also a problem with being an outsider trying to force changes with nothing more than the notion that the (widely disliked, generally incapable) President has your back: you're the new guy in an old boy's club.

Another unforeseen thing in 2017: I'm thankful for the US political momentum and in-groups, because this time they're actually keep the wrong people out.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:45 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Who is this "they"? The right wing is no more a monolith than we are.

"They" can, and should, be peeled apart where possible. We can't, and shouldn't try, to convince the racist hypocritical low information asshat voter.

But perhaps we can convince a few people, via "hey free long acting birth control lowers abortion rates". Via "hey cutting military spending reduces the deficit." Via "hey Medicare for all."

Yeah, the hardliners won't care, but fuck them anyhow, they are unconvinceable.

The pressure on elected officials is clearly working, even on Rs. If we gave up and said "all Rs are a monolith and act only to spite us", then we should just lie down and cry. But I think that's a pretty stupid path forwards. I plan on continuing to call my senators, even though they are both Rs.
posted by nat at 7:49 AM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

howfar: Today's Trump tweet is just as unhinged as one would expect, even without a side-order of vitriol; can you imagine any sane politician saying that people shouldn't worry about the "explosion" of healthcare provision?

It's like someone saying "don't worry, that car you're driving will explode, but then you can get a new, safer car!"
posted by filthy light thief at 7:50 AM on March 27, 2017 [13 favorites]

So this is true and uncanny: I have been calling Bannon and Trump "Shaggy" and "Scooby" respectively for a while.

Ruh Ro
posted by y2karl at 7:55 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

If you realize that many conservatives truly believe we are in the end times, you can understand why they don't care about asset-stripping our institutions.

But by the same token, why do they care so much about the deficit/debt (which like .01% of them understand the difference between)?

Oh, that's easy; they don't. At all. They only pretend to to justify opposition to Democratic priorities (even if they have to lie about it, as with the ACA, which reduced the deficit).

The Republicans had control of Congress and the Presidency with George W. Bush and now with Trump, and we see again what they do with it: Massive boosts in defense spending, tax cuts for the rich, and deficits as far as the eye can see. It's what they do, and it does the political press no credit that they don't laugh derisively every time the Republicans mention the deficit.
posted by Gelatin at 7:56 AM on March 27, 2017 [40 favorites]

Nunes keeps getting spotted scampering around DC, leaping out of vehicles, scuttling in the shadows behind dumpsters, etc. Can't someone just bait a giant Hav-A-Heart trap with some turkey gizzards and release him humanely in the mountains?

We tried that. It turns out the Central Valley people don't want him either and the path of least resistance for them was to send him back to DC.
posted by Talez at 8:03 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

zakur: Meanwhile, Protesters outside White House demand ‘Pizzagate’ investigation Hayes wore a shirt saying “Pizzagate is Not Fake News.”

His wife, Danielle, 31, wore one reading “Investigate Pizzagate.”

Their three children, ages 9, 5 and 2, each wore shirts saying “I Am Not Pizza #pizzagate.”

Um, so I bought my 5 year old a weird shirt that has a bear with weird crazy eyes and a speech bubble that says "PIZZA!" on it because c'mon, it's weird!

And now I feel bad finding it funny. Damn you, crazy Pizzagate parents!

(I can't find the shirt design in a general Google image search for pizza bear shirt, though there are more nonsense shirts I would not mind owning, so I'll post a pic of the shirt later, because this is totally something that is important in this tangential discussion.)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:04 AM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Just saw this on twitter - a new site tracking state level legislation to oppose / support Trump terribleness.
posted by hilaryjade at 8:07 AM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]

A good rule of thumb, in any area: no matter how bad things are, they can always get worse.

A good friend of mine commented, back in November, that 2016 was the year that America and Western Europe got first-hand experience with the TL;DR version of Russian history: "somehow, things got worse".

As for the bizarre story about the US Embassy to Israel moving to Jerusalem:

The GOP certainly has its fair share of Dominionists who believe in a bizarre interpretation of the Revelation of John. But this stinks of a Bannon move to me.

I've said it before that Bannon is the kind of guy who posts (*shudder*) "remove kebab" memes all over the Crusader Kings 2 subreddit. He knows that he doesn't have enough Religious Authority to unilaterally declare a Crusade, so he needs a Casus Belli if he wants to escalate his war against Islam. He spent the better part of the last few years stoking up anger about an embassy attack, so he knows the Trump base is primed and ready to get riled up about another one.

Moving the US embassy to provoke an attack is exactly the kind of thing I'd expect from a jackass like Bannon who fancies himself a master strategist, in other words. The Dominionist wing wouldn't even bother with an excuse, they already have Jesus on their side.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:22 AM on March 27, 2017 [13 favorites]

Um, so I bought my 5 year old a weird shirt that has a bear with weird crazy eyes and a speech bubble that says "PIZZA!" on it because c'mon, it's weird!

So you might want to quietly ungive that shirt. Is this the bear?
posted by scalefree at 8:26 AM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Breitbart Denied Capitol Hill Permanent Press Credentials: On Monday morning, the Standing Committee of the Senate Press Gallery denied Breitbart's request for permanent press credentials for the Hill, stating that they needed "more answers" before considering the right-wing website's request again
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:27 AM on March 27, 2017 [27 favorites]

The culture prefers exciting, blustering personalities to competent thoughtful leadership in general. I'm not convinced the pop culture with its adulation of provocateurism on both sides of the political divide isn't partly to blame for our political and good governance woes. Everybody wants to be a rock star. Nobody wants to be seen as boring and conventional. That's the worst thing you can be in a culture that values charisma over character.

Yes and no.

We need a down-to-earth, charismatic wonk who can say: Look, I'm not a flashy [gal/guy], but I am a nerd who cares a lot about the issues Americans are facing, and I'm going to put a government together that has a lot of smart and caring and competent leaders who are going to help us figure out these problems we have.

And Hillary came so close, but fucking 20 years of misogynistic blasting. We got it almost there, against this unanticipatedly huge extinction-burst of straight white male hegemony that's washing across the Western world.

We can do it.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:30 AM on March 27, 2017 [43 favorites]

We need a down-to-earth, charismatic wonk who can say: Look, I'm not a flashy [gal/guy], but I am a nerd who cares a lot about the issues Americans are facing, and I'm going to put a government together that has a lot of smart and caring and competent leaders who are going to help us figure out these problems we have.

I beg you not to and present Governor OneToughNerd as an example of why.
posted by Etrigan at 8:34 AM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

Um, so I bought my 5 year old a weird shirt that has a bear with weird crazy eyes and a speech bubble that says "PIZZA!" on it because c'mon, it's weird!

You monster!
posted by sour cream at 8:36 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

"Okay, so I returned the shirt, because apparently bears and pizza are now both tainted, and got another one with this silly-looking frog so... wait, what? Goddamn it!"
posted by Behemoth at 8:40 AM on March 27, 2017 [64 favorites]

A good rule of thumb, in any area: no matter how bad things are, they can always get worse.

"[T]he worst is not/So long as we can say 'This is the worst.'"—King Lear, Act IV, Scene I (n.b. two more acts to go)
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:43 AM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]

"That's Pepe, he's kind of become a symbol of how we can't have nice things any more."
posted by tobascodagama at 8:43 AM on March 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

Yes and no.

I've seldom had a charismatic boss who didn't turn out to be a lying self dealing weasel, so I'm probably showing my personal biases. I prefer working for boring people.
posted by saulgoodman at 8:45 AM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Can someone summarize for me just exactly what Nunes is now saying went down here? I can't keep up with all the semi-retractions, obfuscations, and Uber rumors.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:48 AM on March 27, 2017 [17 favorites]

Eh, I can't shed any tears over Pepe. I always hated the little green motherfucker. He epitomised a style of "humor"and a culture I loathed long before he got appropriated by the white supremacists.

To me he isn't so much an example of why we can't have nice things, but rather how shirty things appeal to shirty people who then make them, somehow, even worse.

Seriously, his main contribution before he turned Nazi was a cartoon where he was peeing with his pants around his ankles and the "punchline" was "feels good man". Comedy cemetery is giving him too much credit.
posted by sotonohito at 8:48 AM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Haven't seen @SethAbramson's latest (50 tweet!) megastorm mentioned here yet.

OMG, have we forgotten that there are places other than Twitter where you can write longer articles?
posted by dirigibleman at 8:52 AM on March 27, 2017 [49 favorites]

zachlipton: Trump administration weighs deeper involvement in Yemen war

More war. I'm sure that's exactly what the region needs.

People keep talking about the impacts to the regions around war zones, like Syria and now Yemen, except when millions of people try to leave a region, they can't all be taken in by neighboring countries, so they go farther and farther, which Russia understood.

Russia influenced the British vote to leave the E.U. in a roundabout way: Earlier this year NATO's Supreme Allied Commander in Europe said that Russia and Syria were brutalizing Syrian civilians to maximize the number of refugees. In effect, they were "deliberately weaponising migration in an attempt to overwhelm European structures and break European resolve," hoping to diminish anti-Russia sanctions in the EU.

Emphasis mine, from a prior MeFi post.

It looks like Trump is playing Putin's game for Putin's purposes. Syria's population was around 22-24 million before their civil war, and Yemen has about that same population now, and they have their own ongoing civil war. It's great that the Netherlands resisted their far-right anti-immigration, anti-Muslim party, and hopefully France can succeed similarly. But if the US really does increase instability in Yemen, the increased number of refugees could further strain European countries, which would further Putin's desire to push against, if not fully break, NATO and the EU and rebuild the Soviet Union (long read on Politico, January 1, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:52 AM on March 27, 2017 [56 favorites]

This Scientific American article about "blue lies" seems to have an important insight... Though I think it might not be an entirely surprising one here. We might phrase it as: "Trump's fans know he's lying, and they cheer him on because Liberal Tears!"

“People condone lying against enemy nations, and since many people now see those on the other side of American politics as enemies, they may feel that lies, when they recognize them, are appropriate means of warfare,” says George Edwards, a Texas A&M political scientist and one of the country’s leading scholars of the presidency.

posted by OnceUponATime at 8:57 AM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

scalefree : So you might want to quietly ungive that shirt. Is this the bear?

No, I know what Pedobear looks like, and there is no resemblance to Pizza Bear and Pedobear.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:03 AM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Arizona Senator Jeff Flake writes an Op-ed, Democrats shouldn't filibuster Neil Gorsuch:

Even President Obama’s two Supreme Court nominees were recognized for their ability to do the job and confirmed without incident.

Except there were 3

(Flake is the charmer who asked Gorsuch about duck-sized horses and horse-sized ducks during hearings.)
posted by galaxy rise at 9:06 AM on March 27, 2017 [44 favorites]

The nomination of Judge Gorsuch and two other DOJ nominees have been held for one week.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:07 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

Even President Obama’s two Supreme Court nominees

They really do think they can just erase Garland from the collective memory, don't they.
posted by Etrigan at 9:07 AM on March 27, 2017 [81 favorites]

sebastienbailard: Lawfare: Did the Justice Department Just Admit Doubts Over Trump’s Oath?

In other words, the Department of Justice is arguing that Trump’s oath is a kind of turning point as to whether or not courts may consider his comments as evidence of purpose regarding the travel ban. Everything he said before 12:01pm on January 20th, 2017 is off the table—the comments of a private citizen, even if a private citizen who was first the Republican nominee for President of the United States and then the President-elect. In contrast, statements made by Trump after swearing the oath are presumptively within the scope of the judiciary’s inquiry. The moment of oath-taking is thus—as the Justice Department describes it—an instance of “profound transition,” on which a great deal turns.

This is interesting for a number of reasons. To begin with, this argument, in connection with the brief’s point about the presumption of regularity, responds directly to some themes addressed in a recent essay by Ben and me exploring what we believe to be the widespread and unprecedented distrust of Trump’s oath of office. We argued then that Trump’s apparent lack of fidelity to the oath and his inability to “take care that the laws be faithfully executed” were systematically undermining the presumption of regularity with which courts have traditionally approached government action—a presumption that follows directly from the judiciary’s trust in the President’s civic virtue, which is itself solemnized in the moment of swearing the oath.

After the first round of unexpected rulings against the revised executive order, we then went on to argue that the judiciary’s striking lack of deference followed from its mistrust of Trump’s oath. At issue, we wrote, is “the question of whether the judiciary means to actually treat Trump as a real president or, conversely, as some kind of accident—a person who somehow ended up in the office but is not quite the President of the United States in the sense that we would previously have recognized.”

So it is notable, to say the least, that the Department of Justice is now directly citing Trump’s swearing of the oath as a positive reason why the judiciary should uphold the revised executive order and linking it specifically to the normal presumption of regularity.

Now typically, the Justice Department does not feel the need to remind the judiciary that the President of the United States swore an oath and that a presumption of regularity in his actions flows from that. It is actually a remarkable show of weakness for the Justice Department to have to make this point.

Emphasis mine. The LA Times pointed out that Trump has done a terrible job becoming a different person as president, in an article from Feb. 7, 2017:

Typically, legal experts say, the president would almost certainly win a legal fight involving national security and foreign citizens entering the country.

But the rollout of this executive order has been far from the norm. Trump’s campaign promise to impose a Muslim ban, his recent tweets attacking the GOP-appointed judge who ruled against him and the White House’s clumsy handling of the order’s implementation may change the calculation.

“The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned,” Trump tweeted Saturday. “Just cannot believe a judge would put our country in such peril. If something happens blame him and court system,” he tweeted Sunday.

In the words of the stoic president: See you in court.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:12 AM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

They really do think they can just erase Garland from the collective memory, don't they.

The Republicans, having the Senate majority, could simply have given Garland a hearing and then rejected him. Or if McConnell wasn't sure of the whip count, they could have filibustered. The Republicans could have blocked Garland using completely normal channels. The fact that they're trying to pretend Garland's nomination never existed proves that they know they crossed a line.
posted by Gelatin at 9:12 AM on March 27, 2017 [82 favorites]

Wait wait; it's possible for someone (not just janitorial staff, but a Congressperson) to be on the White House grounds and the President (or at least his staff) not to know about it? Does that only seem weird to me?

Because that seems weird to me.

I guess my from-the-movies impression of the White House grounds was "highly secure facility watched at all times by cameras and every movement recorded" not "a really fancy version of a Starbucks where you stop to check your email."
posted by emjaybee at 9:17 AM on March 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

Wait wait; it's possible for someone (not just janitorial staff, but a Congressperson) to be on the White House grounds and the President (or at least his staff) not to know about it? Does that only seem weird to me?

Not really. He'd have to sign into the visitors book. I guess there could be some cloak and daggery ways that someone could come through an official entrance but not be logged. Maybe they make exceptions for you if you flash the right kinds of credentials or if the chief of staff or whoever says "don't make a record of this visit". Maybe. That seems a little too movie-land to me though.
posted by dis_integration at 9:20 AM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

all the Jews can be sent to eternal torture in hell for killing Jesus, and they can go to Heaven!

Depending on which flavor of End Times theory you prefer, 144,000 Jews will be saved (because they become Christians) and/or Jews in general get to go to Heaven if they also become Christians.

Rest of the Jews=toast, though. Along with the planet. But then we get a new Earth! Where everyone is a Christian and it's basically pre-Eden Earth with more people.

Prior to becoming an atheist, this is not what I was taught at Non-Denominational Evangelical Fundamentalist Sunday School, nor heard in any church sermon, at all. I honestly think it's worth discussing this horrible shit in detail because Metafilter seems to have an enormous collective blindspot regarding non-trailerpark fundies, and with Pence and his ilk so close to the throne the specific delusions of white-collar evangelicals are of global fucking import.

So, dogma regarding Jews: God's Chosen People, they can either go to their Hebrew-specific not-so-great-but-beats-the-hell-out-of-Hell afterlife (Sheol) by observing the Old Covenant outlined in the Old Testament/Judaism, OR accept salvation through Christ under the New Covenant and go to Heaven, which far from being a new Eden is described as a massive crystal & gold city descending from Heaven - a "New Jerusalem" measuring 1400 miles in all three dimensions. The New Covenant basically makes things easier all around (just ask to be saved, no animal sacrifice required), has a better afterlife, and is open to Gentiles this time; but the Old Covenant wasn't wiped out, just generally surpassed in quality. Tech metaphor: practicing Jews were regarded as the IPv4 in IPv4/IPv6. Failure to accept either Covenant of course means eternity spent in infinite pain, or more technically "separation from God", which is supposed to somehow be worse than infinite pain (sucks to be the 90+ billion Gentiles born prior to Christ, or a modern dead baby/aborted fetus - all of these default to Hell because of Original Sin).

Pence, Jerusalem: in order for the Rapture to occur, among other things, Israel needs to exist more or less as described pre-Babylonian conquest and the Temple in Jerusalem needs to be rebuilt (which: good luck with that seeing as the third holiest site in Islam is now occupying the spot).

After that and a lot of God slowly ramping up the plagues and punishment and mankind getting increasingly pissed instead of repentant, Revelations 16 which sounds awfully like a priest circa 33AD attempting to describe a global nuclear exchange, as God's punishment for the wickedness of all mankind.

Then the rise of Kings from the East (read: Russia, China, used to be Japan), they gather at Armageddon, God flips his shit remembering how terrible Babylon (read: Iraq) treated the Jews and absolutely nukes the living fuck out of the whole group/place, followed by orbital bombardment (seriously, check the link). How anybody living in Israel around this time makes out once the smoke clears is conveniently never addressed.

If you're wondering why the Evangelical Right is sympathetic to environmentalist ethos (God made mankind stewards of the Earth), but ultimately can't get too worked up about Global Warming, the fact that Earth is getting the full-on Fallout treatment Real Soon Now (for two millennia and counting) is a big factor.

Let me stress: they believe this is all absolutely required for Christ's return. Fated to happen, and probably in the next generation or three. Regarding Jews: there are pockets of fundies with a serious animus for Jews, and historically it's been more common than not throughout broader Christianity, but as far as coastal evangelicals are concerned: they're God's People, more or less grandfathered in if they want to be or they can upgrade to the deal the rest of us get. What happened with Jesus was required in order for there to be any salvation for the rest of us, and pretty much any group of people in their situation would have done the same thing, so they're in no way inherently evil and in fact God still has a bit of a soft spot for them in his heart. See also: passionate hatred for Babylon (Iraq), even in modern times.

I've met and befriended several ex-fundies from other congregations in the Upstate New York/New England area, and all of us were taught the above with little variation. Makes for some great laughing-because-I'm-crying shared snark on FB when discussing current events.

The whole thing is obviously incredibly insulting to Jewish people and their beliefs, duh, but in their extremely meager defense this idea of Jews somehow being evil killers-of-Christ is not one I encountered until after I'd left the culture entirely. While the obsessions with Jerusalem, abortion, missionary work to get out the message, and aw-shucks ambivalence towards environmental concerns are no less crazy - I hope after reading the above they at least make some kind of contextual sense for the people who believe this stuff is literal divinely-authored truth.
posted by Ryvar at 9:21 AM on March 27, 2017 [54 favorites]

They really do think they can just erase Garland from the collective memory, don't they.

I sent Flake's office a message asking why he lied in his op-ed or, if he didn't lie, whether he forgot about Garland's nomination or was never aware of it in the first place, either of which would make Flake incompetent. I really hope the Arizona Republic calls him out in an editorial (or at least publishes a rebuttal op-ed) pointing out that Flake is either a liar or incompetent.
posted by jedicus at 9:21 AM on March 27, 2017 [22 favorites]

Hmph. It looks like Flake's office ignores messages from anyone outside Arizona. If anyone here is from Arizona, I urge you to contact his office via the medium of your choice and press them on this. Ask them how many Supreme Court nominees Obama made. Ask them why Flake said there were two. Ask him if he plans to publish a correction, retraction, or apology.

This is like Trump with his electoral vote lie. It's bald-faced rewriting of history and it must be called out.
posted by jedicus at 9:28 AM on March 27, 2017 [38 favorites]

I honestly think it's worth discussing this horrible shit in detail because Metafilter seems to have an enormous collective blindspot regarding non-trailerpark fundies, and with Pence and his ilk so close to the throne the specific delusions of white-collar evangelicals are of global fucking import.

It might be worth discussing, but probably not here? Eschatology varies a lot church to church, and the treatment of the role of Israel in prophecy varies a lot also. There is no one agreed-upon version, and most of it comes from some very dodgy 19th-century Bible interpretation.

Anyway, Fred Clark is a great source on this stuff.
posted by emjaybee at 9:29 AM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

(There are about five thousand different interpretations of how the Second Coming is supposed to play out, and just as many different interpretations of the role of Jewish people in the chain of events. I think we can all agree that the common thread to all of them -- and the most important aspect of the political ideologies influenced by this kind of theology -- is that they treat Jewish people as props in a play rather than actual human beings. I'm not sure the specific details really matter beyond that.)
posted by tobascodagama at 9:31 AM on March 27, 2017 [23 favorites]

I sent Flake's office a message asking why he lied in his op-ed or, if he didn't lie, whether he forgot about Garland's nomination or was never aware of it in the first place, either of which would make Flake incompetent.

Well, Flake met with Garland, so my money is on lying.
posted by stopgap at 9:31 AM on March 27, 2017 [20 favorites]

Haven't seen @SethAbramson's latest (50 tweet!) megastorm mentioned here yet.

OMG, have we forgotten that there are places other than Twitter where you can write longer articles?

I have a similar reaction to it, but Alexandra Erin (@alexandraerin) commented on this once, saying that the difference of readership and engagement she got when she put longer form things on a blog/tumblr/whatever - even with pointing at it on twitter - was orders of magnitude lower. So while we may be agog that people do this and others want to read it... they do.

Perhaps I am somewhat inoculated to this feeling of WTFness as a tech dude who cannot understand why so many people want to do their computing tasks on tablets and phones. You seriously would rather suffer through that rather than going to a pc of some sort? Type on something with no moving keys and a keyboard that takes up a third of your screen space? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The right way to use a tool is the way people decide to use it, however mind-boggling and counter to design intention that might be.
posted by phearlez at 9:32 AM on March 27, 2017 [18 favorites]

If anyone here is from Arizona, I urge you to contact his office via the medium of your choice and press them on this.

Already done.

I called his office, requested a correction to the editorial as it appears on his Senate website, and requested a follow-up confirming that the correction had been made. (No answer and full voicemail at his Phoenix office. I had to call his office in Tucson. Thank you to all fellow Mefites in Arizona who have been jamming his switchboards!)

I think it is a pretty reasonable request to ask that the people who represent me do so with factual accuracy, and, understanding that errors happen, correct inaccuracies when they are noticed.

I also think it is pretty reasonable to request that your senator remember the time they all but admitted the blocked nomination was an unprincipled stand taken in the interest of political expediency.
posted by compartment at 9:33 AM on March 27, 2017 [38 favorites]

Well, Flake met with Garland, so my money is on lying.

Certainly he hasn't forgotten, as much as choosing to quietly forget is a clear strategy on the Garland bullshit.

Question I think is more "lying" vs. merely mendacious parsing; whether Garland was a Supreme Court nominee might depend for the sake of self-serving argument on what the definition of "Supreme Court nominee" is, etc. If you choose to argue that someone's not really an SC nominee until the process of nomination and review has proceeded past the point at which the GOP refused to proceed, then QED Garland doesn't qualify. Now watch this drive.
posted by cortex at 9:38 AM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Philly Inquirer: Report: Jared Kushner had undisclosed meeting with head of Russian bank under sanctions

The second was a previously undisclosed meeting between Kushner and Sergey Gorkov, the head of Russia’s state-owned Vnesheconombank, which has been under sanctions since the annexation of Crimea in 2014.

White House spokeswoman Hope Hicks confirmed both meetings, telling the Times that nothing of consequence was discussed and that the meetings went nowhere. The White House had previously only acknowledged the first meeting between Kushner and Kislyak.

Another meeting with Russia that was conveniently forgotten about. Oh, and at that meeting they forgot, nothing on consequence was discussed. With a Russian state-owned bank. Uh-huh.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 9:43 AM on March 27, 2017 [44 favorites]

new Paul Ryan statement: "Speaker Ryan has full confidence that Chairman Nunes is conducting a thorough, fair, & credible investigation"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:44 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Do we have a catchy term like "Kremlinology" with which to refer to everyone trying to read the tea leaves of what is actually going on based on what spokespeople are saying is going on?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:46 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Oh, and at that meeting they forgot, nothing on consequence was discussed. With a Russian state-owned bank. Uh-huh.

In fairness, nothing so far has had any consequence to them.
posted by Etrigan at 9:46 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Haven't seen @SethAbramson's latest (50 tweet!) megastorm mentioned here yet.

OMG, have we forgotten that there are places other than Twitter where you can write longer articles?

Yeah, he could write it over at HuffPo. Where he also wouldn't get paid, just like on Twitter.

(This is your irregular reminder that HuffPo is garbage and its business model should die in a fire.)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:46 AM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

> Do we have a catchy term like "Kremlinology" with which to refer to everyone trying to read the tea leaves of what is actually going on based on what spokespeople are saying is going on?

I think Kremlinology is a pretty good word for it already considering the likelihood of Kremlin involvement, but I'll throw Bannonology and Mar-a-Lago-gy out there as alternatives.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:49 AM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Do we have a catchy term like "Kremlinology" with which to refer to everyone trying to read the tea leaves of what is actually going on based on what spokespeople are saying is going on?

idk, isn't that (supposed to be) Political Reporting?
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:50 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

and the most important aspect of the political ideologies influenced by this kind of theology -- is that they treat Jewish people as props in a play rather than actual human beings. I'm not sure the specific details really matter beyond that

Your point about the landscape being highly fractured is well-taken - and sure we can drop the Eschatology - but I do think it really fucking matters whether or not evangelicals are stroking their pitchforks when they think about Jews when we have a President floating trial balloons on internment camps. On these finer points do Holocausts turn.

Plus, all politics aside - it's my family, and despite everything that happened I still love them. If the situation were reversed, I'd like them to at least speak up along the lines of, "Well sure, he believes a sea of crazy shit but he's not an anti-Semite."

So, you know...that.
posted by Ryvar at 9:51 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Mar-a-Lagology?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:52 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

It looks like Trump is playing Putin's game for Putin's purposes. Syria's population was around 22-24 million before their civil war, and Yemen has about that same population now, and they have their own ongoing civil war. It's great that the Netherlands resisted their far-right anti-immigration, anti-Muslim party, and hopefully France can succeed similarly. But if the US really does increase instability in Yemen, the increased number of refugees could further strain European countries, which would further Putin's desire to push against, if not fully break, NATO and the EU and rebuild the Soviet Union

Under Trump, U.S. airstrikes have already killed hundreds of civilians
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:52 AM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Haruspicey Time, clearly.
posted by cortex at 9:53 AM on March 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

nothing of consequence was discussed

As the head of a foreign state-owned bank subject to American sanctions, I can confirm the plausibility of this explanation. Since 1976 I have met regularly with family members of and political advisors to all American presidents-elect specifically to discuss matters of no consequence. My first meeting was with Billy Carter, and we talked about his pickup truck, which I actually really do regret not buying when when it was for sale in 2006.

(Honestly, as someone who is not the head of a state-owned bank, this is one of my biggest regrets in life.)
posted by compartment at 9:56 AM on March 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

So this is true and uncanny: I have been calling Bannon and Trump "Shaggy" and "Scooby" respectively for a while. Ivanka and Kellyanne are Velma and Daphne. And Mike Pence is Fred.

My favorite episodes were always the ones with the swamp monsters.
posted by archimago at 9:57 AM on March 27, 2017

I don't think anyone addressed this yet. "The Civil War is Here" was a TT this a.m. After following broken links, I finally found an opinion piece at a thing called frontpagemag. You can go find the piece if you want, I won't link it here. (I waded into this website so you don't have to!)

But you have to understand that this is where my/your right-wing family/neighbors/coworkers/legislators are. This is why is why if you try to address that the tRump admin has committed treason, you'll get a "You are" back.

The gist is that Leftists hold ideology over the laws of the land, are rejecting the "Authority" of the duly elected president, and are therefore treasonous. If you read the whole piece, see how many times "the Left" is called treasonous. The Left doesn't share the values of the country, so there can be no compromise. The author portrays his conservative ideology as representing the majority of the people and dogwhistles/ marginalizes all who don't agree.

(Bold emphasis mine.)
Political conflicts become civil wars when one side refuses to accept the existing authority. The left has rejected all forms of authority that it doesn’t control. ... has rejected the outcome of the last two presidential elections won by Republicans. It has rejected the judicial authority of the Supreme Court when it decisions don’t accord with its agenda. It rejects the legislative authority of Congress when it is not dominated by the left.

It rejected the Constitution so long ago that it hardly bears mentioning.
---
when government officials refuse the orders of the duly elected government because their allegiance is to an ideology whose agenda is in conflict with the President and Congress, that’s not activism, protest, politics or civil disobedience; it’s treason.
...
Democrats have become radicalized by the left. This doesn’t just mean that they pursue all sorts of bad policies. It means that their first and foremost allegiance is to an ideology, not the Constitution, not our country or our system of government. All of those are only to be used as vehicles for their ideology.

That’s why compromise has become impossible. ...

Instead it has retreated to cultural urban and suburban enclaves where it has centralized tremendous amounts of power while disregarding the interests and values of most of the country.
...
The left has made it clear that it will not accept the lawful authority of our system of government. ...
It’s an authoritarian political movement that has lost democratic authority. There is now a political power struggle underway between the democratically elected officials and the undemocratic machinery of government aided by a handful of judges and local elected officials.

What this really means is that there are two competing governments; the legal government and a treasonous anti-government of the left. ...
They are engaged in a struggle for power against the government. That’s not protest. It’s not activism. The old treason of the sixties has come of age. A civil war has begun.

This is a primal conflict between a totalitarian system and a democratic system. Its outcome will determine whether we will be a free nation or a nation of slaves.

posted by NorthernLite at 9:58 AM on March 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

OMG, have we forgotten that there are places other than Twitter where you can write longer articles?

But then nobody will go: Look at this MASSIVE TWEETSTORM ABOUT GAME THEORY and instead say: here are three paragraphs of unfounded and weakly reasoned writing.
posted by dis_integration at 9:59 AM on March 27, 2017 [39 favorites]

House Intelligence Committee scraps Tuesday briefing with Comey/Rogers because the two could not make it "as we'd hoped," aide says."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:00 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

but I do think it really fucking matters whether or not evangelicals are stroking their pitchforks when they think about Jews when we have a President floating trial balloons on internment camps. On these finer points do Holocausts turn.

Oh absolutely. Right now, Muslims are the direct target. But at the same time, white supremacists who support Trump never stopped hating Jewish people. On the other hand, white evangelicals have largely abandoned hating Jews and instead taken to using them as props, largely due to the idea that you need a State of Israel for there to be a Rapture. Judaica (Hebrew words, writing, sometimes even things like Passover ceremonies) have been appropriated by lots of evangelical congregations, who see in them a "proof" that Christianity is the true religion/fulfillment of God's relationship with the Jews. Amy Grant's "El Shaddai" was a huge hit in the 80s and so on.

You could make a good argument that all this support for Israel and appropriation doesn't really help Jewish people, but it might prevent evangelicals from being pro-internment camps for Jewish people. Islam has largely supplanted Judaism as "the enemy religion" in the American evangelical mind. Christians nowadays tend to assume that a Jewish person might be persuaded to believe in Jesus as the messiah, but Islam is presented as totally foreign, unknowable, and hostile.
posted by emjaybee at 10:04 AM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

opinion piece at a thing called frontpagemag

Ah, Taki's. Where writers who are too racist for National Review and not racist enough for [redacted] live.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:05 AM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

I have a similar reaction to it, but Alexandra Erin (@alexandraerin) commented on this once, saying that the difference of readership and engagement she got when she put longer form things on a blog/tumblr/whatever - even with pointing at it on twitter - was orders of magnitude lower. So while we may be agog that people do this and others want to read it... they do.

I'm guessing it may have to do with getting a small dopamine reward for each tweet in the series they click on, sort of like rats pushing the button for food.
posted by scalefree at 10:05 AM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

It’s an authoritarian political movement that has lost democratic authority.

I recognize a lot of that screed from the conservative ideology of my upbringing (though the purveyors of that are currently in agreement with me that Trumpism is a far greater threat to democracy than leftism) but this bit is just mind-blowing.

By definition isn't someone who is rejecting authority anti-authoritarian?

I mean, call leftists statists if you want, or even totalitarians if you want to conflate "no really you can't treat other people in a way that violates their rights, no matter how dark their skin is" with totalitarianism, but for the love of god don't rant for five paragraphs about how the mean Democrats won't respect the authoritah of the President and then refer to them as authoritarians. (I realize I am pissing into the wind here but for the love of pete, words have meanings!)
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:07 AM on March 27, 2017 [21 favorites]

By definition isn't someone who is rejecting authority anti-authoritarian?

They're saying (badly) that liberals want the state to have more authority, but are being hypocritical in refusing to recognize the state's authority when they don't like the leader of the state. It's not an unforgiveably dumb stance, but it's definitely a result of the conservative tendency toward simplistic ideological consistency above objective reality.
posted by Etrigan at 10:15 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

From my Indivisible group:

THIS IS URGENT!!
Minority chair of the House Committee on Intelligence, Adam Schiff is asking the public to DEMAND that the Trump/Russian hearing on MONDAY be open to the public.

Majority leader Nunes has decided it will now be CLOSED to the public and is also refusing to release information.

Since information will be discussed about the Trump Campaign's ties to Russia, it is imperative that the American Public know first hand whether or not Trump and his associates committed treason.

1. Call or internet fax the Intel Committee's Majority Staff: Phone: (202) 225-4121, Fax: (202) 225-1991

Here's your script, using my information:
"This is (your name), calling from (city, state). It's completely outrageous, considering the shadiness that has already characterized the hearings regarding the Trump administration's Russian ties, that Chairman Devan Nunes has closed them to the public. Transparency has never been more critical to the legitimacy of our democracy than now. The public must hear these testimonies. Reopen these hearings immediately."

2. Then call your representative and deliver the same message, asking him or her to make a public statement:
"This is (your name), calling from (city, state). I just learned that Chairman Devan Nunes has closed the hearings about the Trump Administration's Russian ties to the public. This is completely outrageous, particularly considering the underhandedness that has already come to light. I call on Rep. Pelosi to make a public statement calling for the reopening of the hearings."

Here also are numbers for the Republican members - let's target them individually as well:

Chair Devin Nunes -(202) 225-2523 (barrage his office)
Mike Conway (CA) - (202) 225-3605
Peter King (NY) (202) 225-7896
Frank Lobiondo 202) 225-6572
Thomas Ronney (FL) (202) 225-5792
Ileana Ross- Lehitinen (FL) (202) 225-3931
Michael Turner (OH) (202) 225-6465
Brad Wenstrup (OH) (202) 225-3164
Chris Stewart (UT) 202-225-9730
Rick Crawford (AK) (202) 225-4076
Trey (Draco Malfoy) Gowdy (SC) (202) 225-6030
Elise Stefanik (NY) (202) 225-4611
Will Hurd (TX) (202) 225-4511
posted by emjaybee at 10:15 AM on March 27, 2017 [39 favorites]

Climate Deniers Are Winning—and Getting Greedy
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:22 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Hey @RogerJStoneJr. You just referred to Russian hacker Guccifer 2.0 as "her" on CNN. If you only communicated via Twitter, how'd you know?

It's probably because Roger Stone is really into direct feminist action and the use of randomly gendered language to challenge a patriarchal default assumption of masculinity.
posted by jaduncan at 10:22 AM on March 27, 2017 [123 favorites]

If you choose to argue that someone's not really an SC nominee until the process of nomination and review has proceeded past the point at which the GOP refused to proceed, then QED Garland doesn't qualify.

The Constitution is quite clear"

".. he [the president] shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court."

It states that the nomination of a Supreme Court judge is explicitly a power of the president. The power of the Senate is to advise and consent to the actual appointment, but they have no legal power as to the nominee.

If the president says that someone is the nominee, they are the nominee, full stop. The Senate has nothing to do with deciding if someone is a nominee. So says the constitution.

President Obama to the press in the Rose Garden: "Today, I am nominating Chief Judge Merrick Brian Garland to join the Supreme Court."

Garland was the nominee. There is no other tendentious parsing possible.
posted by JackFlash at 10:22 AM on March 27, 2017 [61 favorites]

Gallup: Trump's Approval Rating Drops to New Low of 36%
posted by Rhaomi at 10:23 AM on March 27, 2017 [42 favorites]

Trey (Draco Malfoy) Gowdy (SC) (202) 225-6030

Draco Malfoy?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:26 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can't someone just bait a giant Hav-A-Heart trap with some turkey gizzards and release him humanely in the mountains?

Honestly if Nunes turns out to be fifteen opossums in a bad human suit it would explain SO MUCH.
posted by nonasuch at 10:26 AM on March 27, 2017 [38 favorites]

I'm really getting to know my inner troll. Because I'm procrastinating something else, I emailed Flake's Chief of Staff with this:

I’m concerned about Senator Flake’s health. I read his recent op-ed in The Arizona Republic in which he expressed his approval of SCOTUS nominee Gorsuch. But I was shocked by these closing words: Even President Obama’s two Supreme Court nominees were recognized for their ability to do the job and confirmed without incident. President Obama nominated three people to the Supreme Court: Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Merrick Garland. Since Sotomayor and Kagan were both confirmed, Senator Flake has apparently forgotten about Merrick Garland, despite the hue and cry surrounding the GOP’s efforts to deny him due consideration. Or could it be that Senator Flake never realized Garland had been nominated to the highest court in the land at all?

Either explanation is extremely concerning. Senator Flake is only 54, but could he be suffering from early onset Alzheimer’s Disease or some other form of dementia? As chief of staff, you’re probably in the best position to choose the right time and place to let Senator Flake know the sad news that his apparent incapacity requires him to step down. I’m sure it will be a difficult conversation but trust you to do the right thing.
posted by carmicha at 10:28 AM on March 27, 2017 [77 favorites]

Presidents George W. Bush (lowest approval rating: 25%), George H.W. Bush (29%), Ronald Reagan (35%), Jimmy Carter (28%), Richard Nixon (24%), Lyndon Johnson (35%) and Harry Truman (22%) all had job approval ratings lower than 36% at least once during their administrations.

Wow Republicans are shit presidents.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:29 AM on March 27, 2017 [39 favorites]

Nunes actually went to the White House grounds to meet with a source in person, and to do so in proximity to a SCIF in case there was a need to review material

"Hi, Mr. Nunes! Although neither you or I work at the White House, may I suggest that we meet there to review some classified information that the White House definitely did not tell me to share with you? Let me know your arrival time and I'll arrange for refreshments to be sent by an independent third-party catering source unaffiliated with the White House Executive Chef and her staff."
posted by compartment at 10:29 AM on March 27, 2017 [20 favorites]

Maybe Nunes is Scooby-Dum.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:31 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump's current 36% is two percentage points below Barack Obama's low point of 38%, recorded in 2011 and 2014. Trump has also edged below Bill Clinton's all-time low of 37%, recorded in the summer of 1993, his first year in office, as well as Gerald Ford's 37% low point in January and March 1975. John F. Kennedy's lowest approval rating was 56%; Dwight Eisenhower's was 48%.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:32 AM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

The District Sentinel: EPA Chief Signals Death of Clean Power Plan, Paris Climate Agreement.

An Obama-era regulation seeking to reduce carbon pollution and slow global temperature increases is next on the chopping block for the Trump administration.

Environmental Protection Agency head Scott Pruitt told ABC News over the weekend that the President will sign an executive order Tuesday to dismantle the Clean Power Plan.

The order will “address the past administration’s effort to kill jobs across this country through the Clean Power Plan,” Pruitt said. He added that the move is “about making sure that we have a pro-growth and pro-environment approach to how we do regulation in this country.”

As the Attorney General of Oklahoma, Pruitt sought to kill the Clean Power Plan. He joined several states in a lawsuit against the regulation, arguing that the EPA exceeded its authority and the rules were unconstitutional.

posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:33 AM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trey (Draco Malfoy) Gowdy (SC) (202) 225-6030

Draco Malfoy?

Can't you see the similarity?
posted by scalefree at 10:37 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Spicer time.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:37 AM on March 27, 2017

Jeff Sessions is going on about bad hombres. [fake, but that is actually what he's doing.]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:38 AM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

I’m concerned about Senator Flake’s health.

I wrote it in one of the other threads, and I'm happy to repeat it: IMO and from personal experience, this is the best way to deal with these liars, including Trump himself. Go for it!
posted by mumimor at 10:38 AM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Do you think that Jeff Sessions has to practice to sound so racist or does it just come naturally?
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:41 AM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Can't you see the similarity?

Yiiiiiiiiiiiikes.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:45 AM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Spicer was reading a statement about Women's History month, and had to look back down at his paper to see what the Vice President's wife's name was.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:49 AM on March 27, 2017 [20 favorites]

GA-06: Georgia Dems normally raise $10,000 for this House seat. This April they’ll have $3 million.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:50 AM on March 27, 2017 [41 favorites]

He also could only cite one example for how the White House will support working women: Ivanka's program to promote women entrepreneurs and business leaders. I guess if you don't own the company and just want some maternity leave, you're out of luck.
posted by zachlipton at 10:51 AM on March 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

Jeff Sessions is going on about bad hombres. [fake, but that is actually what he's doing.]

But what has he been doing? I feel like he's been conspicuously quiet since he recused himself.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:52 AM on March 27, 2017

I'm pretty sure spicey said America is open to people of all genres when he meant to say "genders"
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:52 AM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Spicer was reading a statement about Women's History month, and had to look back down at his paper to see what the Vice President's wife's name was.

Mother Mother?
posted by futz at 10:52 AM on March 27, 2017 [63 favorites]

I'm pretty sure spicey said America is open to people of all genres when he meant to say "genders"

He's a french sleeper agent?
posted by dis_integration at 10:53 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Do you think that Jeff Sessions has to practice to sound so racist or does it just come naturally?

In fairness, his bit about people needing to respect the law no longer ends with referring to said people as 'uppity'. Baby steps.
posted by jaduncan at 11:03 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

But what has he been doing?

Shutting down Investigations to make America safe forces shady shit and racists, mostly. I guess the lack of noise he's done it with makes him a genius at corruption compared with the others.
posted by Artw at 11:05 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Gallup: Trump's Approval Rating Drops to New Low of 36%

Honeymoon period.
posted by Artw at 11:08 AM on March 27, 2017 [29 favorites]

This is what I think of when I hear the words Mother Mother
Enjoy it!
posted by The_Auditor at 11:15 AM on March 27, 2017

The Salt Lake Trib says that Utahans approve of Trump now.
posted by Oyéah at 11:18 AM on March 27, 2017

Hmph. It looks like Flake's office ignores messages from anyone outside Arizona.

While I understand the desire to cater to your constituents, at the same time, the laws you try to pass and the supreme court justices you forget impact the whole country. Really, they go beyond that, but then you get into foreign powers influencing US actions, so I can see drawing the line at international calls and emails.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:18 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Spicer, pressed again, again declines to categorically deny that Nunes's source was the administration itself, saying "Anything is possible," while also noting that he has not been briefed personally on what Nunes told Trump, or who Nunes met with.

These people are incapable of avoiding rhetorical traps used by eighth grade girls.
posted by winna at 11:21 AM on March 27, 2017 [18 favorites]

These people are incapable of avoiding rhetorical traps used by eighth grade girls.

Again, it astonishes me that the role of WHPS isn't frequently given to a particularly charismatic trial lawyer. It's essentially lightweight work compared to cross-examinations, and most journalists aren't very good at framing questions in any case.
posted by jaduncan at 11:25 AM on March 27, 2017 [28 favorites]

lol this profile of The Weekly Standard, which portrays it as a conservative bastion of Real News, doesn't even mention that Stephen F. Hayes, the publication's editor-in-chief, wrote a book falsely tying Osama Bin Laden to Saddam Hussein.

That would be the same Weekly Standard that used to employ frequent NPR commentator and, more significantly, NYT NYT op-ed columnist David Brooks, for whom lying by omission is also something of a trademark.
posted by Gelatin at 11:25 AM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

"I think he's made it very clear what his position is on Planned Parenthood," says Spicer of a man who has had pretty different views on Planned Parenthood.

It's hard to see how we don't have a massive shitshow over Planned Parenthood next month. The Freedom Caucus is going to make defunding a requirement to vote for a continuing resolution, and the government shuts down April 28tth. There aren't 60 votes in the Senate to defund Planned Parenthood. And it's obvious Paul Ryan has no ability to manage this problem whatsoever.
posted by zachlipton at 11:27 AM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

T.D. Strange: Climate Deniers Are Winning—and Getting Greedy

In short: even Scott Pruitt isn't anti-environmental enough for some rabid Randians. The real monsters, er true believers, are the ones on Trump's "beachhead team," the truly extreme anti-environmentalists, like Becky Norton Dunlop, a fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, and David Stevenson of the libertarian Caesar Rodney Institute.

Pruitt has never once mentioned that he doubts the scientific consensus that air pollution can kill you, while Stevenson considers this consensus “the single biggest piece of science that we need to go back and look at.” Pruitt also has not expressed a desire to undo the EPA’s 2009 determination under the Clean Air Act that greenhouse gases are a threat to human health—a top policy priority for leading climate deniers.

Again, it's the people who aren't "vetted" through the public hearing process who are truly awful Trumpkins, and there are more than 400 of such "stealth" operatives throughout various departments of federal government now. Our only luck here is that 1) they're even more extreme than their publicly approved bosses, and 2) they can't coordinate any better than the House Republicans on trying to repeal and replace ACA.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:28 AM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

Huh.

haven't gotten Tom Price's Monday morning, always chipper "Week in Review" email (sent to all HHS offices/depts) yet today.

Go figure.
posted by gaspode at 11:28 AM on March 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

The Freedom Caucus is going to make defunding a requirement to vote for a continuing resolution, and the government shuts down April 28tth. There aren't 60 votes in the Senate to defund Planned Parenthood. And it's obvious Paul Ryan has no ability to manage this problem whatsoever.

The Party of No, Not Now, Not Ever.

Plans? We don't need no stinkin' plans.

Unfortunately, there's still a lot of damage being done, so it's hard to get too happy about their infighting.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:29 AM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

New York Attorney General Schneiderman's comment: Despite what AG Sessions implied today, local gov’ts have broad authority to not participate in federal immigration enforcement. (press release)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:40 AM on March 27, 2017 [30 favorites]

Never, ever implying Nazis might be bad sure is real, real important to these people.
posted by Artw at 11:40 AM on March 27, 2017 [31 favorites]

Asked whether the murder of a black man was a hate crime, Spicer cites a "rush to judgement" in anti-semitic hoaxes.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:40 AM on March 27, 2017 [26 favorites]

Russia Is Not Cooperating With US Probe Of Massive Money Laundering Scheme, DOJ Says

-- The case of USA v. Prevezon made headlines worldwide last week when a key witness in the prosecution, Russian lawyer Nikolai Gorokhov, plunged from his fourth-story window one day before he was set to give testimony in a separate criminal case.

Two days after Gorokhov fell from the building, a trove of documents where entered into the docket in the Prevezon case — which charges the defendant, a Cyprus-based real estate company, with utilizing funds from a $230 million Russian tax fraud scheme to buy properties in New York City.

-- According to the court record, the confidential witness is a Russian lawyer who legally obtained approximately 30,000 pages of relevant documents in a separate criminal case that includes “bank records and investigative analyses” showing how the $230 million was moved around the world.

Asked if the confidential witness referenced in the case file was Gorokhov, a DOJ spokesman told BuzzFeed News that it could not comment.

-- BuzzFeed News has learned that he is recovering from his injuries and out of any mortal danger.
posted by futz at 11:43 AM on March 27, 2017 [17 favorites]

...with him saying that people who accuse others of things that turn out not be true "should be held to account"

Surely achieving this level of self-unawareness requires mixing together some secret combination of sedatives.
posted by Killick at 11:46 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm actually surprised that nothing of this sort has come up yet during his stint as POTUS. Surely it's happening as we speak, and we'll hear about it in a few months? Either that, or he's too old and unhealthy to be a lech anymore.

It has come up once, last week. Trump was apparently obsessed with Japanese Prime Minister Abe's translator's breasts.
posted by scalefree at 11:46 AM on March 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

Asked whether the murder of a black man was a hate crime, Spicer cites a "rush to judgement" in anti-semitic hoaxes.

"I don't want to comment on an ongoing investigation and I don't have specific information to share with you in any case, but any time that an American is attacked this President will always stand with them. When an American is targeted based on their race, colour, or creed that's something we would absolutely condemn." [fake]

The clear and ongoing refusal to just give a boilerplate statement like that is quite impressive.
posted by jaduncan at 11:49 AM on March 27, 2017 [21 favorites]

Washington Post: Trump administration weighs deeper involvement in Yemen war.

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis has asked the White House to lift Obama-era restrictions on U.S. military support for Persian Gulf states engaged in a protracted civil war against Iranian-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen, according to senior Trump administration officials.

In a memo this month to national security adviser H.R. McMaster, Mattis said that “limited support” for Yemen operations being conducted by Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates — including a planned Emirati offensive to retake a key Red Sea port — would help combat a “common threat.”

Approval of the request would mark a significant policy shift. U.S. military activity in Yemen until now has been confined mainly to counterterrorism operations against al-Qaeda’s affiliate there, with limited indirect backing for gulf state efforts in a two-year-old war that has yielded significant civilian casualties.

The Houthis aren't good guys - they commit their share of atrocities - but the balance of those "significant civilian casualties" tips toward the Saudi-led coalition, and it isn't close. It's irritating to see "Democracy Dies in Darkness" fail to acknowledge this until the end of the article. Morever, the Houthi rebels aren't simple Iranian proxies, as the coalition would have us believe. We shouldn't accept that claim at face value.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:50 AM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

He actually said "hate crimes should be denounced in the most reprehensible way" which is both a classic bite of Spicerian word salad and accidentally true
posted by theodolite at 11:51 AM on March 27, 2017 [28 favorites]

a classic bite of Spicerian word salad

I have the tiniest bit of hope that Spicer will slip up and accidentally describe hate crimes as deplorable.
posted by jaduncan at 11:57 AM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis has asked the White House to lift Obama-era restrictions on U.S. military support for Persian Gulf states engaged in a protracted civil war against Iranian-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen, according to senior Trump administration officials.

I'm so old I can remember back to the days when people assured me that General "Mad Dog" Mattis would be the voice of moderation in the White House that would keep Trump out of trouble internationally.
posted by JackFlash at 12:01 PM on March 27, 2017 [44 favorites]

Bill Nelson will vote against cloture (i.e., for filibustering) in Gorsuch confirmation.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:04 PM on March 27, 2017 [21 favorites]

I'm so old I can remember back to the days when people assured me that General "Mad Dog" Mattis would be the voice of reason in the White House that would keep Trump out of trouble internationally.

Almost nobody has ever called Mattis the voice of reason over Iran. I wondered at the time if he took the job to go at them. He appears to believe that the nuclear deal is worthwhile, but if allowed to I would imagine that he will go after Iranian proxy forces and allies where possible in an attempt to strategically contain Iran.
posted by jaduncan at 12:05 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Bill Nelson will vote against cloture (i.e., for filibustering) in Gorsuch confirmation.

To be clear, Nelson is a Democrat.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:07 PM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

Bill Nelson will vote against cloture (i.e., for filibustering) in Gorsuch confirmation.

Just called his local office and the phones are ringing off the hook in the background. He has a history of playing nice across the aisle, so we are keeping the pressure on to make sure he doesn't go back on his word.
posted by hollygoheavy at 12:08 PM on March 27, 2017 [32 favorites]

Devin Nunes last week was like one of those dotted-line Family Circus cartoons. [pic]
posted by zachlipton at 12:11 PM on March 27, 2017 [33 favorites]

That entire exchange with Spicer on antisemitism got really ugly, with him saying that people who accuse others of things that turn out not be true "should be held to account" and him being really angry that anybody accused people on the right of being antisemitic and asked him to condemn it.

So, when Trump falsely accused Obama of being a bad/sick guy because he supposedly illegally tapped Trump's phones, Spicer is saying that Trump therefore "should be held to account", right?

Right?
posted by darkstar at 12:24 PM on March 27, 2017 [28 favorites]

David Kurtz at TPM, echoing what many have said in these threads:

Perhaps the White House had planned all along for Attorney General Jeff Sessions to make an appearance at today's press briefing to rail against sanctuary cities. But the timing is consistent with what I've long feared will be the impulse for the Trump administration: When the going gets rough (failed Obamacare repeal, low poll numbers, etc), it will fall back on appeals to racism and xenophobia to regain political footing.

With so much incompetence taking root, it's not difficult to envision a scenario where those base appeals must become more amped up, extreme, and scurrilous to be "effective." It threatens to turn into a vicious cycle the likes of which we've never seen in this country.

Call it out every time, of course.

But it feels like it needs more. It feels like we need to do more to fight it.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:29 PM on March 27, 2017 [42 favorites]

Okay I'm finally getting to this Buzzfeed article from upthread.

Cernovich: She had a seizure and froze up walking into her motorcade that day.
Pelley: Well, she had pneumonia. I mean—
Cernovich: How do you know? Who told you that?
Pelley: Well, the campaign told us that.
Cernovich: Why would you trust the campaign?
Pelley: The point is you didn’t talk to anybody who’d ever examined Hillary Clinton.
Cernovich: I don’t take anything Hillary Clinton is gonna say at all as true.

This just in: habitual liars assume that everyone else is also habitually lying. It's like the biggest tell of a liar. The second they accuse you out of nowhere of lying? Run. Important Life Lessons, brought to you by our current dystopia.

Cernovich appeared to be reveling in the appearance — he Periscoped himself watching the interview live and then gleefully retweeted praise

Fucking really?

“They don't understand me and didn't even try.”

Be careful that when you stare into the abyss etc...

It's personality disorders all the way down.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:30 PM on March 27, 2017 [29 favorites]

I mean, if they can't feel shame for being bigots, maybe we can make them feel shame for being suckers, instead. Losers. Clowns.

They do seem to be pretty big on "pride," after all.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:31 PM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

In general the VA is well liked by its veteran constituents.

I think a better answer might be that the VA is a deeply divisive subject among veterans. Those veterans who continue to use it for fifty years, for whom it's the only healthcare they know, may well like it: more recent veterans, who have known world-class military care and Tricare Prime active-duty insurance, generally do not, along with older veterans and female veterans who have stopped using it.

The VA is deeply troubled for a lot of reasons. I have access to both VA and military care currently, and I can tell you it's no contest as to which is higher quality.
posted by corb at 12:31 PM on March 27, 2017 [16 favorites]

I'm so old I can remember back to the days when people assured me that General "Mad Dog" Mattis would be the voice of moderation in the White House that would keep Trump out of trouble internationally.

I will totally cop to being one of the people who saw Mattis as an acceptable cabinet pick, though in my defense I did so with a bucket of reservations every time. And even now I figure he's better than the other names that were floated (Tom Cotton? Are you fucking kidding me?).

Still, my opinion of Mattis went down the toilet when he stood by smiling while Cheetoh Mussolini signed his first bullshit Muslim Ban. Nothing has happened to fix that, either.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:34 PM on March 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

With so much incompetence taking root, it's not difficult to envision a scenario where those base appeals must become more amped up, extreme, and scurrilous to be "effective." It threatens to turn into a vicious cycle the likes of which we've never seen in this country.

Never seen? I wouldn't go that far. Fox News has long used fear to sell its partisan message, and fear is a hell of a drug. One can't just keep the same amount of stimulation and get the same response; one must escalate it. No wonder Trump's description of a crime- and poverty-ridden American hellscape resonated so strongly with the information bubble crowd, not to mention the racist and sexist message that Trump was the "only hope" to prevail.
posted by Gelatin at 12:34 PM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

OMG, someone totally pranked President Tiny Hands.

"It's a child's desk," said Pres Trump of the table provided for the bill signings. "It's the smallest desk I've ever seen," he complained.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:51 PM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

I don't see a desk. I see someone seriously in need of a haircut.
posted by Namlit at 12:54 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

More Scott Pelley from WaPo yesterday

Scott Pelley is pulling no punches on the nightly news — and people are taking notice

Perhaps the most notable one, on Feb. 7, went like this:

“It has been a busy day for presidential statements divorced from reality. Mr. Trump said this morning that any polls that show disapproval of his immigration ban are fake. He singled out a federal judge for ridicule after the judge suspended his ban, and Mr. Trump said that the ruling now means that anyone can enter the country. The president’s fictitious claims, whether imaginary or fabricated, are now worrying even his backers, particularly after he insisted that millions of people voted illegally, giving Hillary Clinton her popular-vote victory.”

And then Pelley added a reality-check kicker: “There is not one state election official, Democrat or Republican, who supports that claim.”
posted by futz at 12:54 PM on March 27, 2017 [45 favorites]

One can't just keep the same amount of stimulation and get the same response; one must escalate it.

Yup. Remember when Glenn Beck (barf) had a guy tied up on his show and poured "gasoline" on him to imitate the danger to the average American of Obama supposedly "bowing" to the King of Saudi Arabia, closing Gitmo and other feverish fears conjured up from the Republican psyche?

Glenn Beck, like Hannity, Limbaugh and a lot of the performance artists of right-wing politics, have only one principle, to make money, and they do it very well because of the number of gullible conservatives that actually look to them for their advice and insight.

Limbaugh said it best himself:

Limbaugh can afford to live the way he wants. When we met he was on the verge of signing a new eight-year contract with his syndicator, Premiere Radio Networks. He estimated that it would bring in about $38 million a year. To sweeten the deal, he said he was also getting a nine-figure signing bonus. (A representative from Premiere would not confirm the deal.) “Do you know what bought me all this?” he asked, waving his hand in the general direction of his prosperity. “Not my political ideas. Conservatism didn’t buy this house. First and foremost I’m a businessman. My first goal is to attract the largest possible audience so I can charge confiscatory ad rates. I happen to have great entertainment skills, but that enables me to sell airtime.”

The Fox business model is to build as loyal a following as possible - to maximize ad revenues - not by offering anything representing journalism, but by providing performance art masquerading as news and commentary. And to maintain those viewers, they have to get more and more amped, more and more outrageous.

I still remember the early days of the Tea Party, when one of the Fox segments showed an amped-up crowd of Teabaggers. A later segment on a different network showed the wider angle shot of the same scene, which showed the Fox producer standing behind his cameraman waving on and urging the crowd to be louder and more aggressive.
posted by darkstar at 12:56 PM on March 27, 2017 [61 favorites]

Can someone help me figure out if these two stories are talking about the same money laundering scandal?

Russia Is Not Cooperating With US Probe Of Massive Money Laundering Scheme, DOJ Says

Two days after Gorokhov fell from the building, a trove of documents where entered into the docket in the Prevezon case — which charges the defendant, a Cyprus-based real estate company, with utilizing funds from a $230 million Russian tax fraud scheme to buy properties in New York City.
...
In 2013, former US Attorney Preet Bharara brought a claim against Prevezon, which is owned by Russian national Denis Katsyv, claiming that a portion of the stolen $230 million ended up in the company’s bank accounts and was used to purchase NYC apartments. In court filings, Prevezon says the DOJ has no hard evidence to back up its claims.

The three-plus year court battle over Prevezon’s holdings is on the brink of going to trial — the case is scheduled to be put before a jury on May 15 — months after Bharara was fired by President Donald Trump.

Russian mafia boss still at large after FBI wiretap at Trump Tower

For two years ending in 2013, the FBI had a court-approved warrant to eavesdrop on a sophisticated Russian organized crime money-laundering network that operated out of unit 63A in Trump Tower in New York.
...
“Their money was ultimately laundered from Russia, Ukraine and other locations through Cyprus banks and shell companies based in Cyprus and then ultimately here to the United States.”

If not... Good lord are there are lot of different Russian money laundering scandals to keep track of! Because this isn't even including the two separate Deutsche Bank scandals!
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:00 PM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]

The VA is deeply troubled for a lot of reasons. I have access to both VA and military care currently, and I can tell you it's no contest as to which is higher quality.

You are entitled to your opinion but it is only an opinion. The plural for anecdote is not data.

The data show that users of VA care consistently rate their satisfaction for care higher than users of the private healthcare system. In addition, objective studies of healthcare outcomes show that the the VA rates as good or better, especially for management of chronic conditions.

The VA has become a political football because Republicans are desperate to show that government healthcare is inferior to private and for-profit healthcare. Despite all their efforts, this is not true.
posted by JackFlash at 1:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [26 favorites]

The VA has also been pretty consistently low balled since forever. Sort of like England's health care system under (and following) Thatcher's stint at the helm. Both of which are the commonly cited evidence of why any sort of single payer system is bound to end in shambles.

Probably not a coincidence.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 1:12 PM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

The data show that users of VA care consistently rate their satisfaction for care higher than users of the private healthcare system.

The data compares all current users of VA care - thus, people who feel it's worthwhile and who return - to all users of the private healthcare system, who have a variety of different health plans, from terrible to good. Yes, I will freely admit that free or nearly-free VA care is going to come out ahead by that metric. But that isn't the standard I believe we should be measuring for.

If we were willing to treat our soldiers to world class care to ensure they were effective tools fighting America's wars, I believe we should be willing to treat them to that same world class care when they return broken from America's wars.

This doesn't have to be a partisan football. Saying "VA care isn't good enough" doesn't make you a Republican tool of privatization. There's ways to argue for better care for veterans that isn't "dismantling the whole system". You can argue for cutting edge care even within the current "government system". If you think single payer can work well, then by all means, /please/ make VA healthcare the gold standard, so that people can say "government healthcare, even when it doesn't directly benefit the government, can be the best in the world." I would love to be wrong. Show me.
posted by corb at 1:14 PM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

The data show that users of VA care consistently rate their satisfaction for care higher than users of the private healthcare system. In addition, objective studies of healthcare outcomes show that the the VA rates as good or better, especially for management of chronic conditions.

I've got really good anecdata on a friend who has VA coverage as well as Medicare plus supplemental insurance. If it weren't for his VA coverage, if he were forced to fall back on his two other insurance plans, right now he'd be selling his house to cover his cancer drugs to, you know, avoid dying, so.

But all he had to do to get the better VA purple heart coverage was kill a bunch of people, almost get killed twice, and watch his best friend die, so the system works!
posted by middleclasstool at 1:15 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

You are entitled to your opinion but it is only an opinion.

This is a pointless statement that might feel like a really good shut-down but in the end says nothing. We should be better than this.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:18 PM on March 27, 2017 [16 favorites]

But all he had to do to get the better VA purple heart coverage was kill a bunch of people, almost get killed twice, and watch his best friend die, so the system works!

USA! USA! USA!
posted by Talez at 1:20 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

This doesn't have to be a partisan football [snip] If you think single payer can work well, then by all means, /please/ make VA healthcare the gold standard, so that people can say "government healthcare, even when it doesn't directly benefit the government, can be the best in the world."

Speaking just for myself, corb, I would love to make VA health care the gold standard, and have single payer health care that delivers that kind of quality care to everyone in America. That kind of system doesn't "directly benefit the government;" it benefits the American populace on whose behalf the government should work.

The reason it's a "partisan football" is that Republicans are not willing to pay for it, and many now are perfectly comfortable with saying in public (*cough*Paul Ryan*cough*) that they don't believe the healthy should subsidize the sick.
posted by Gelatin at 1:21 PM on March 27, 2017 [26 favorites]

Georgia! "Call 678-636-9551 and @Alyssa_Milano and I WILL PICK YOU UP and take you to early vote! Now."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:21 PM on March 27, 2017 [24 favorites]

corb: "This doesn't have to be a partisan football. Saying "VA care isn't good enough" doesn't make you a Republican tool of privatization."

When Republicans consistently choose to underfund the VA, then saying VA care isn't good enough as if it's a sorry state of affairs while advocating this kind of bipartisan rhetoric... all that makes you a Republican tool of privatization.
posted by TypographicalError at 1:22 PM on March 27, 2017 [20 favorites]

I want there to be more funding for the VA--especially for mental healthcare for veterans. I believe it is currently the responsibility of the party that a) controls all three branches of government and b) constantly trots out their supposed support for Armed Forces Members to allocate enough for funds for the VA.

I don't agree or support ~~everything~~ much of what the military does, but I think it strengthens our society to ensure that veterans are not dying on the streets from preventable illness and that they can get mental health services. Mental healthcare can save your life--especially if you're a survivor of trauma.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:27 PM on March 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

The fact that Senator Nelson is supporting the Gorsuch filibuster says we're in for a showdown. I just called and let them know I was thrilled to hear the news.

Also, anecdotally of course, my father started using his VA benefits when he lost his job at 63 to offshoring 5 years ago. His care has always been fantastic and he doesn't have a bad thing to say about it. The VA in Tampa does inspiring work taking care of vets who have lost limbs and endured horrific injuries in battle. Nothing is perfect and health care is always complicated but the VA hospitals in the Tampa Bay area do a great job.
posted by photoslob at 1:32 PM on March 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

I believe we should be willing to treat them to that same world class care when they return broken from America's wars.

Then you should not have voted for, advocated on behalf of, or otherwise supported and defended a political party that constantly works against that.

Otherwise people might think you're not being truthful about your priorities.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:32 PM on March 27, 2017 [48 favorites]

Georgia! "Call 678-636-9551 and @Alyssa_Milano and I WILL PICK YOU UP and take you to early vote! Now."

Oh God. I never thought I'd feel bad for NOT living in Georgia but I've had a crush on Alyssa Milano since Commando.
Shut up, that's not creepy. She's like two years older than me.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:33 PM on March 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

Wait, Let's Clown These Scrub-Ass Doofuses Some More

Seventeen days. That’s how much stamina flinty-eyed deal master Donald Trump, sober policy knower Paul Ryan, and all the Republican Party had for a health care overhaul they’d been promising for seven years, before the work of negotiating amongst themselves overwhelmed them and they retired to their fainting couches. You can’t close on the sale of a fucking townhouse in 17 days. Holy hell, what a bunch of losers.

posted by melissasaurus at 1:35 PM on March 27, 2017 [98 favorites]

Ya'll are calling your Reps about the rollback of the FCC rules regarding letting your ISP sell your data, right? Vote is tomorrow. This should not be a thing a conservative is for, either. Call them!
posted by emjaybee at 1:36 PM on March 27, 2017 [27 favorites]

The LA Times had a rundown of California Republican congresspeople and where they were on the AHCA vote. Nunes gave a quote, saying the vote was a "no-brainer." All I could think was, hey, if there's anyone who can speak to deciding things without a brain, it's this guy.

And he keeps illustrating exactly that expertise every goddamn day.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:40 PM on March 27, 2017

Those SCIF facilities for classified computer networks in the White House are guarded 24/7 and require signing in and out in the logbook. It would be trivial for the White House to determine who was with Nunes at the time and tell the public -- if they wanted to.
posted by JackFlash at 1:44 PM on March 27, 2017 [25 favorites]

Meanwhile, across the pond:

@keiranpedley: BREAKING: NEW @GfK political poll shows Jeremy Corbyn as unpopular as Donald Trump among British adults. (screencap)
posted by Going To Maine at 1:46 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

He added that his source was not a White House staffer and was an intelligence official.

@BradMossEsq
There is a small universe of people who can just access these types of surveillance orders on a whim w/o setting off red flags.

@JoyAnnReid
Wasn't Nunes the one who suggested his former colleague Mike Pompeo for CIA director? Would a CIA agent/official have access to that info?

Just interesting because Pompeo comes from the Clinton fever swamp wing of the GOP, a la Giuliani.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:47 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

If you think single payer can work well, then by all means, /please/ make VA healthcare the gold standard, so that people can say "government healthcare, even when it doesn't directly benefit the government, can be the best in the world." I would love to be wrong. Show me.

It's not like you can't do the research yourself. In any case, people have been showing you, specifically, all about the benefits of single-payer for years now. We've posted links to short- and long-term studies, polls, and government data. We've talked about European-style healthcare programs, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA. We've discussed the increases in efficiency and effectiveness in patient care, patient satisfaction, and numerous other factors. We've shown that it's a far more powerful driver in reducing costs to both patients and taxpayers overall. And yet, mostly what we've had to deal with has been rebutting your often anecdotal arguments against it, including numerous falsehoods such as universal and/or single-payer depriving people of private healthcare choices. So maybe the problem isn't that we've failed to show you that you're wrong, but that you've refused to accept it.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:07 PM on March 27, 2017 [76 favorites]

Trump is so terrible that he's making me nod my head along with noted war criminal and shooter-of-friend-in-face Dick Cheney, who left his stasis chamber to suggest Russian interference might be an act of war, an important precondition for treason allegations.
posted by dis_integration at 2:10 PM on March 27, 2017 [58 favorites]

Trying to answer my own question above about the money laundering scandals...

It looks like Preet Bharara was pursuing both cases at the same time in 2013, but that they were separate cases.

U.S. v. Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov seems to be a conventional organized crime case involving an illegal gambling operation -- the link goes to the indictment, signed by Preet Bharara, United States Attorney:

The defendants, were based in New York City. TRINCHER and GOLUBCHIK were the principal, though not exclusive, leaders of the Taiwanchik-Trincher Organization's criminal conduct and ventures, which included an illegal gambling business, money laundering, extortion, and other crimes. TRINCHER and GOLUBCHIK were assisted by numerous criminal partners and associates throughout the United States, Ukraine, the Russian Federation, and elsewhere.

So far as I know, the only connections between this case and Trump are that one of the defendents operated out of Trump tower, and that Tokhtakhounov, the primary defendent, was seen with Trump in 2013 at the Miss Universe Pageant in Moscow (while he was wanted by the FBI.)

US v. Prevezon is something weirder, involving fake lawsuits which were used to generate fake monetary losses for a tax scam in which members of the Russian government appear to have been complicit:

Manhattan U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said: “Today's forfeiture action is a significant step towards uncovering and unwinding a complex money laundering scheme arising from a notorious foreign fraud. As alleged, a Russian criminal enterprise sought to launder some of its billions in ill-gotten rubles through the purchase of pricey Manhattan real estate. While New York is a world financial capital, it is not a safe haven for criminals seeking to hide their loot, no matter how and where their fraud took place."
...
Sham lawsuits [were used] to fraudulently generate money judgments against the Hermitage companies. Members of the organization purporting to represent the Hermitage companies then used those money judgments to seek tax refunds. The basis of these refund requests was that the money judgments constituted losses eliminating the profits the Hermitage companies had earned, and thus the Hermitage companies were entitled to a refund of the taxes that had been paid on these profits. The requested refunds totaled 5.4 billion rubles, or approximately $230 million.

Members of the organization who were officials at two Russian tax offices corruptly approved the requests within one business day, and approximately $230 million was disbursed to members of the organization, purportedly on behalf of the Hermitage companies, two days later.

After perpetrating this fraud, members of the organization undertook illegal actions in order to conceal this fraud and retaliate against individuals who attempted to expose it.
...
Magnitsky and other attorneys for Hermitage uncovered the refund fraud scheme, and the complicity of Russian governmental officials in it, and were subject to retaliatory criminal proceedings. Magnitsky was arrested and died approximately a year later in pretrial detention.

It was one of the key witnesses in this latter case who was just defenestrated. So far as I know, Trump has no connection to that case, except maybe that fact that that he fired Preet Bharara. However, several stories mention that money from this fraud scheme ended up getting invested in New York real estate (which is how Bharara got involved).
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:19 PM on March 27, 2017 [17 favorites]

Oh dear Christ, this really is the darkest timeline if we need Cheney to save us.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:20 PM on March 27, 2017 [39 favorites]

Jared Kushner has wiped both his Twitter and Facebook account clean.

Spicy!
posted by Yowser at 2:26 PM on March 27, 2017 [56 favorites]

Dude, there is no argument. Single payer is better. The fact that it's occasionally implemented in a shoddy way (often due to deliberate undermining by ideologues who have a vested interest in the private healthcare sector) is not an argument against it's superiority.

If you study health economics you can see that the system currently in use in the USA is the most economically inefficient system by a significant margin. It literally just pisses money away. Okay, but is that because America is super rich and so everyone is getting amazing cutting edge healthcare? No. When you look at public health measures you can see that when you examine any halfway important KPI, America is shite compared with other first world countries.

As for the argument that the USA is hemorrhaging money because of extended treatments for the elderly or the disabled or whatever - no. I refuse to ever have a discussion of allocation of resources in a system that is either shonky or underfunded. Until you fix those two problems you will only be care-rationing, and this is both ethically and professionally repugnant to me. Put good systems in place, fund them adequately, and then evaluate where improvements can be made.

Again, this is very possible in the United States. There's nothing inherent to America that makes it impossible to have, for example, medicare for all. There is no policy, financial, infrastructural reason why this can't happen. It can't happen at the moment because the political will isn't there to push for it (although maybe that is changing? fingers crossed) against the tide of Republicans shrieking about how it will be the worst thing ever for mumble mumble mumble reasons. They have no evidence for this. At all. They merely have an ideological position not supported by facts or reality. In keeping with so many of their policy positions, so at least they're consistent. Yay?

Basically single payer/medicare for all/universal health care (whichever or all) are like a well made bicycle. Every time you try to get on it and take it somewhere, a Republican throws a stick in the spokes and then furrows their brow and explains to you that bicycles just don't work.
posted by supercrayon at 2:27 PM on March 27, 2017 [80 favorites]

Jared Kushner ha she wiped both his Twitter and Facebook account and clean.

Spicy!

I...uh...he understands that most of that shit has been screencapped at a minimum, yes?
posted by Existential Dread at 2:29 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

I believe that Cheney comment is from 2016. Has he crawled out from under his rock again?
posted by futz at 2:29 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Bay Area people: Congresswomen Speier is hosting an event next Saturday with Michael McFaul, former Ambassador to Russia, called Russia 101 in San Mateo. It's going to be a small event (170 people), with RSVP required, but will also be streamed on Facebook. Should be interesting.

Meanwhile, Paul Ryan is going around telling donors that healthcare reform isn't dead and that he'll brief them on a new plan at a donor retreat as soon as this Thursday or Friday. He continues to blame the Freedom Caucus, despite ample evidence that he was bleeding moderates as well.
posted by zachlipton at 2:30 PM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Err it turns out that Jared Kushner never tweeted to begin with.

I umm yeah. So that's happened.
posted by Yowser at 2:31 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm not sure how one goes about getting verified when you've never tweeted. Turns out Kushner is just that kind of guy.
posted by Yowser at 2:33 PM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Meanwhile, Paul Ryan is going around telling donors that healthcare reform isn't dead and that he'll brief them on a new plan at a donor retreat as soon as this Thursday or Friday.

For the right sized donation is seems that he will write you a nice tax cut, free you of the need to provide healthcare for your employees, and now (for an unlimited time) will also kick away the government support that allows many millions of poor and working class people to actually get healthcare. Whattadeal. (sarcasm)
posted by puddledork at 2:42 PM on March 27, 2017

"It's a child's desk," said Pres Trump of the table provided for the bill signings. "It's the smallest desk I've ever seen," he complained.

"I am bigly! It's the presidency that's gotten small!"
posted by kirkaracha at 2:44 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Well, I am not sure how reliable the Palmer Report is:

Woolsey says the Flynn-Turkey meeting he attended, in which the kidnapping of Pennsylvania resident Fethullah Gülen was discussed, took place in the summer of 2016. But after Donald Trump was named the winner of the election, late in the transition team period, Flynn met with the Turkish government yet again. By this time James Woolsey had already resigned two weeks earlier. So instead, Flynn took another Trump transition team member with him, Devin Nunes.

It’s not publicly known what was discussed during the Flynn-Nunes-Turkey meeting on January 18th. But confirmation of the meeting has been hiding in plain sight all along. Earlier today respected political pundit T. R. Ramachandran posted a lengthy tweet storm (link) which included a reference to a previously overlooked article from Turkish news publication Daily Sabah (link). The article reports that “[Turkish] Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu met with designated U.S. National Security adviser Rt. Gen. Mike Flynn on Wednesday at Trump Hotel in Washington” and goes on to add that “House Intelligence Committee Congressman Devin Nunes, a Republican heavyweight, also attended the breakfast.”

James Woolsey now says that Michael Flynn offered to put him on his consulting payroll during their meeting with Turkey, an offer which Woolsey declined (source: Wall Street Journal). Flynn has since admitted that he was on Turkey’s payroll to the tune of half a million dollars during the campaign. This newly unearthed revelation about Flynn and Nunes having also met with Turkey raises a number of new questions about the events we’ve all witnessed this week. What was the relationship between Flynn and Nunes? Did Flynn also offer money to Nunes, as he’d done with Woolsey? Did Nunes have his panicked meltdown this week because he saw his own name in the classified eavesdropping intel that was fed to him?

And perhaps most keenly, why did James Woolsey go running to the media this week to reveal his six-months-ago meeting with Flynn and Turkey? Does he now suspect, as I do, that Flynn has already cut a deal with the FBI against Donald Trump, and that these details are all going to come out soon anyway, and Woolsey wanted to make sure his side of the story was heard first? If so, what will Flynn reveal about the involvement of Devin Nunes with the Turkish government? And will it help us understand why Nunes is suddenly trying and failing to make Trump’s entire scandal go away? And if Flynn is blabbing, will anyone in Trump’s orbit be left standing when the smoke clears?

Again, tinfoil is a scarce sculpting medium in my house right now. I hope the California Democrats see an oppo research gold mine with Nunes, since he comes from a very conservative area with a lot of Armenians.
posted by jadepearl at 2:47 PM on March 27, 2017 [18 favorites]

they were on the White House grounds on Tuesday evening

Am I the only one with the image in mind of Nunes huddled in the WH garden reading secret documents by the light of a cell phone flashlight?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 3:00 PM on March 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm not sure how one goes about getting verified when you've never tweeted. Turns out Kushner is just that kind of guy.

This, of all things, actually does make sense to me. A public figure of Kushner's profile is bound to attract a swarm of fake Twitter accounts, and having a real, verified one that you don't use is one way to tamp down on that. (The becheckmarked get access to a whole bunch of tools that mere Twitter mortals do not.)
posted by tobascodagama at 3:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

You are definitely not the only one. "C'mon Devin, you can do this! Ah shit low battery. Oh no, my game of candy crush!"
posted by supercrayon at 3:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Yowser: Jared Kushner has wiped both his Twitter and Facebook account clean.

And because Twitter's robots.txt file was updated recently, Archive.org no longer displays old tweets. (At least, I assume it was updated recently, because I was archiving tweets as a way to bypass a twitter.com filter last week, but now I get "Page cannot be displayed due to robots.txt" when trying to archive/view tweets.)

They've done this before, except this is not de-duping their system (blocking all www.twitter.com spidering but allowing twitter.com crawls).

-_-
posted by filthy light thief at 3:12 PM on March 27, 2017

For those looking to browse Trump's tweets, here's Trump Twitter Archive dot com, which also clearly states the device used.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:14 PM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

I believe that Cheney comment is from 2016. Has he crawled out from under his rock again? Afraid so.
posted by mcdoublewide at 3:24 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Jared Kushner flew to Aspen same day as ‘one of Putin’s closest confidants’ whose wife is pals with Ivanka

Photojournalist Eric Rosenwald examined flight logs from airports in the area and found that Kushner arrived in Aspen on Saturday, March 18 — the same day as Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich, who has been described as “one of Putin’s closest confidants.” Abramovich is known to own a home in Aspen.

According to Politico’s Jake Sherman, Abramovich’s wife, Dasha Zhukova, attended President Trump’s inauguration as a guest of Ivanka Trump.

Rosenwald goes on to point out that two days later Abramovich’s plane flew to the Caribbean just as two planes linked to Michael Cohen, special counsel to the president, arrived at nearby airports.

On Thursday, March 20, Abramovich’s plane flew to the northern Lesser Antilles, a group of islands in the Caribbean Sea. On the same day, two aircraft linked to Michael Cohen did the same – one via Palm Beach, Florida, home of Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort. It’s important to note that Caribbean nations are famous for their tax haven status, and it’s possible that these trips are purely coincidental.

Abramovich’s aircraft landed in St. Maarten, while two smaller Beauty Central LLC-owned Gulfstream jets landed in Anguilla (one of which stopped in Palm Beach, first.) St. Maarten, St. Martin, St. Barth and Anguilla are nearly the same destination. The islands lie several miles apart and have close economic and social ties. St. Maarten (formerly Dutch) and St. Martin (formerly French) are actually two sides of the same island. Each island has an airport, but they differ in their size and ability to serve large aircraft.
“It’s unclear whether or not any of these flights are related, but further investigation is certainly warranted,” Rosenwald concludes.

INTEResting.
posted by futz at 3:26 PM on March 27, 2017 [18 favorites]

State Department Press Room Goes Dark — At Least for Now: Officials said the on-camera briefings won’t resume for at least two weeks as Secretary of State Rex Tillerson moves to get a permanent spokesperson in place.

Mark Toner, a career foreign service officer who has been the department’s acting spokesman, is slated for another assignment. He might return to the podium on camera later this month, but the Trump administration doesn’t yet have a full-time spokesperson in place. That official is expected to be Heather Nauert, until now a Fox News anchor, but she is awaiting approval of her security clearance. She hasn’t been officially named and hasn’t yet started at the State Department.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:33 PM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Sweet merciful crap, how can it be that we're still in the first 100 days of the madness of King Donald?

I really can't take any more of this fucking imbecility and corruption from the people who are supposed to be upholding our hopes and dreams to promote and preserve civilized society.

Can we just get a do-over on November, already? I mean, this is what mulligans were made for, right?
posted by darkstar at 3:36 PM on March 27, 2017 [16 favorites]

Manchin says he'll vote for cloture on Gorsuch, but says he hasn't decided on whether he votes for confirmation. I think that's the first affirmative Democratic defection.
posted by zachlipton at 3:40 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Asshole, we need to release the fucking hounds on Manchin.
posted by supercrayon at 3:41 PM on March 27, 2017 [26 favorites]

Adam Schiff: After much consideration I believe Chairman should recuse himself from involvement in investigation/oversight of Trump campaign transition (full statement)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:48 PM on March 27, 2017 [35 favorites]

Sarah Kliff: Trump is now in charge of making Obamacare work. What could go wrong?. Answer: everything.

But, the Kansas Senate just voted 25-13 to advance the Medicaid expansion, with the final vote possible tomorrow.
posted by zachlipton at 3:48 PM on March 27, 2017 [19 favorites]

HuffPo: White House Announces Jared Kushner Is Now Responsible For Everything

So, if you’re keeping track, Jared Kushner, who comes to Washington with no government experience, no policy experience, no diplomatic experience, and business experience limited to his family’s real estate development firm, a brief stint as a newspaper publisher, and briefly bidding to acquire the Los Angeles Dodgers, will be working on trade, Middle East policy in general, an Israel-Palestine peace deal more specifically, reforming the Veterans Administration, and solving the opioid crisis.

Oh wait, that’s not all! Apparently, this new office will also be responsible for “modernizing the technology and data infrastructure of every federal department and agency; remodeling workforce-training programs; and developing “transformative projects” under the banner of Trump’s $1 trillion infrastructure plan, such as providing broadband internet service to every American.”

We have certainly come a long way from “I alone can fix it.”

posted by zakur at 3:59 PM on March 27, 2017 [27 favorites]

I suspect Manchin has been "released" to vote for cloture by Schumer because his vote won't matter one way or the other. Schumer will probably have the votes to withstand cloture with a couple to spare, so Manchin can vote to satisfy his conservative constituents. It's the same thing that Collins, et al., do on the other side.

So yeah, I am actually optimistically expecting there to be 41+ votes to fight off cloture on Gorsuch.

The question is then going to be whether McConnell then attempts to eliminate the filibuster, and there it's a toss-up. If he thinks he can get all of his caucus to go along with the nuclear option, he'll try it. I think that question is so murky though, that I have no idea if 50+1 would do it.

1. Dems filibuster
2. Reps try to break cloture and fail by 1-2 votes, and then...
3. ?

It depends on Yertle's whip count on eliminating the filibuster whether he even tries to nuke. You can bet there's going to be some intense pressure on moderate Republicans to do it. But (again, optimistically) I am thinking that there will be a few holdouts who don't like the idea of the nuclear option, and we might just see Gorsuch's nomination turned like a two-bit ghoul.

Oh, if I'm wrong, I will eat cake.
posted by darkstar at 4:02 PM on March 27, 2017 [25 favorites]

"modernizing the technology and data infrastructure of every federal department and agency;" is industrial relations speak for "fire a bunch of people," in case anyone hadn't cottoned on.
posted by Yowser at 4:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

No no, this is the federal government. It's industrial relations speak for "fire a bunch of people and hire really expensive incompetent IT contractors."
posted by zachlipton at 4:04 PM on March 27, 2017 [32 favorites]

nunes strikes again
posted by xcasex at 4:12 PM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

^^^ Loved this comment in the above CNN twitter stream on Nunes's disclosure: "If he puts his foot any further in his mouth it's going to start coming out his ass."
posted by mosk at 4:15 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

I swear to god Nunes wears a red nose to bed every night

He's got giant polka dot pantaloons on under that suit

Somewhere there's a pie
posted by schadenfrau at 4:17 PM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

So if I'm following this, somebody from the White House gave Nunes info that suggested that there may have been some incidental interception of campaign stuff while a legitimately executed warrant was being executed. Then he briefed the President on it. Then he went on the news and told everyone that he'd told the President something that the White House told him.

Is this correct? Because just typing it I feel like I could be crazy.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:19 PM on March 27, 2017 [67 favorites]

Holy shit. This has been amazing to watch in real time. Drip Drip Drip. Nunes is a fucking idiot and he's in good company. What a joke. Schiff is probably going nuts right now.
posted by futz at 4:24 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

That Devin Nunes once accidentally committed an act of kindness for a witch is the only credible explanation for his position today

Like a mean Forrest Gump, just forever tripping upwards over his own stupidity
posted by schadenfrau at 4:26 PM on March 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

No no, this is the federal government. It's industrial relations speak for "fire a bunch of people and hire really expensive incompetent IT contractors."

Yah. I cannot even begin to imagine what 45's team thinks they can do to modernize federal information technology. My org has been working on this for multiple administrations: it's fucking hard. And, frankly, it doesn't help when every change in upper management results in a decision to go a different way. I begin to understand my veteran coworkers who just ignore the directives to use the new tool: they've seen new tools before, and before they get fully implemented or incorporated into our workflow, they inevitably are abandoned because someone in Washington has found a new shiny to pursue.

As someone who values sound, intuitive, consistent information management, it's fucking demoralizing.

Which means I can only hope that the Kushner-led effort to modernize dies a fast and bloody death: they can only hope to make things worse.
posted by suelac at 4:26 PM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]

> Climate Deniers Are Winning—and Getting Greedy

Are You Ready to Regress? Scott Pruitt and the climate deniers have big plans ... from decades ago.
posted by homunculus at 4:27 PM on March 27, 2017

@joshorton
It’s only 1:30 ET on Monday after AHCA implosion, and already the ground is starting to shift under the Gorsuch nom. 1/
Sen Nelson announcing “no” on cloture is a terrible sign for Rs - Nelson is the species of Dem Gorsuch needed: moderate, up for election /2
First, now that this is the front page political fight, there’s going to be a much more public airing of Gorsuch's horrific record /3
Gorsuch has a cruel record of indifference to people, and his arrogance during his hearings didn’t help. 4/
Had the AHCA passed the House, there wouldn’t be this window to examine Gorsuch’s record and fight his nom, but AHCA is dead 5/
So I’d expect to see a lot more from the progressive orgs who helped kill the AHCA - progressives are energized. 6/
Speaking of momentum, Sen Hirono just announced her no on cloture. Holdout Dems will face a whole slew of pressure not to give this away. 7/
For example, attention will turn to Dems with national prominence, like Warner and Kaine, to show their leadership. 8/
Schumer is now very public about his goal of uniting Dems to filibuster. It’s a big test, and we’ll see if he’s committed. 9/
But by the end of this week there’s a good chance that Gorsuch will look like McConnell’s problem, and his confirmation no longer a lock 10/
One big question: Trump. He’s stayed out, and Rs hope won’t change. But after AHCA, will he fear another loss and step in? Let’s hope. 11/11

---

And another very interesting point.

@joshorton
The secret on Gorsuch, and why this fight is real: Republicans don’t have the votes for the nuclear option. They know Gorsuch could go down.
posted by chris24 at 4:29 PM on March 27, 2017 [56 favorites]

Are Devin Nunes and Carter Page brothers from another mother? I can't even.................
posted by futz at 4:29 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

CNN: After Schiff call for recusal, House Speaker Paul Ryan still supports Chairman Nunes, per spokesperson.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:31 PM on March 27, 2017

Is this correct? Because just typing it I feel like I could be crazy.

The groundwork for this has been laid so well by almost a decade of insane conspiracy theories that an actual broad daylight conspiracy at the very highest levels of government with GPS tracking, the stupidest possible participants who tweet, instagram and press conference their crimes and have hundreds and hundreds of witnesses has left us paralyzed with doubt.

It's almost as confusing as dating.
posted by srboisvert at 4:34 PM on March 27, 2017 [26 favorites]

I'm really thinking Nunes is just a very stupid person: "Nunes to CNN: "if I wanted to, I could have snuck onto WH grounds at night when nobody would have seen me"

I am open to the possibility that all those White House intruders have really just been Devin Nunes.
posted by zachlipton at 4:34 PM on March 27, 2017 [80 favorites]

> CENTCOM Investigates Whether U.S. Airstrikes Killed 200 Civilians In Mosul

-- The dramatic uptick forced Airwars — a monitoring group which notes casualty numbers — to stop tracking Russian strikes and only focus on U.S. and coalition strikes that result in civilian casualty claims.

Chris Woods, the founder of Airwars, on Democracy Now: More Than 1,000 Civilians Reportedly Killed by U.S.-Led Airstrikes as Trump Expands War on Terror
posted by homunculus at 4:37 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Elle: Maxine Waters Explains it All...Including That Impeachment Tweet, with the incomparable R. Eric Thomas:

Tell me about the experience of going "viral."

What [your] pieces did was to describe me in ways that I think a lot of the millennials understand or can identify with. I'm like Aunt Maxine, that Aunt who comes to your house and looks around, and says something like this, "Well why haven't you done this? Why don't you take care of that?"

Right, like critiquing the mac and cheese…

Right, "What'd you put in here?" I think that a lot of the young people identify with that. They've experienced that with relatives or with their aunts or what have you. ... The thinking is that older people cannot connect, that we can't talk [to young people]. But what I discovered is, it works if they think you're telling the truth! And if they think you have the courage to tell it like it is.

If only everyone in Congress could keep telling it like it is.
posted by zachlipton at 4:42 PM on March 27, 2017 [38 favorites]

More Than 1,000 Civilians Reportedly Killed by U.S.-Led Airstrikes as Trump Expands War on Terror

I know, it is insane that we are not hearing more about this!

-- March could prove to be the deadliest month for civilians at the hands of U.S. airstrikes since the war began, potentially taking the tally to more than 1,000 civilians killed.

-- The dramatic uptick forced Airwars — a monitoring group which notes casualty numbers — to stop tracking Russian strikes and only focus on U.S. and coalition strikes that result in civilian casualty claims.

posted by futz at 4:43 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

Nunes to CNN: 'if I wanted to, I could have snuck onto WH grounds at night when nobody would have seen me'

Apparently we've been spelling his last name wrong. It's Ninja.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:49 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

Turk in Iran Sanctions Case Adds Rudy Giuliani to Legal Team

So now it turns out that Giuliani and Mukasey went to Turkey to meet with Erdogan last month on behalf of their client, "Reza Zarrab, a prominent Turkish gold trader who has been jailed in New York on charges of violating the United States sanctions on Iran." Zarrab had previously been in a Turkish prison as part of corruption allegations involving Erdogan's associates. This really stinks. And this doesn't help:

Adding to the intrigue surrounding the Zarrab case is the fact that Mr. Giuliani has recommended Mr. Mukasey’s son, Marc L. Mukasey, a fellow lawyer at Greenberg Traurig, to Mr. Trump to become the next United States attorney in Manhattan, according to two people briefed on the discussions. The firm’s spokeswoman said the younger Mr. Mukasey has no involvement in the Zarrab case.

posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

"...since the war began..."

Which war, again? I wish the UN would step the fuck up and call us out on this "war against terror" bullshit that allows us to simply wage an endless drone and airstrike war whenever and wherever we please.
I mean, I know the current congress won't do it, even though they're the ones mandated to actually, you know, declare war.

Where are the peacemakers in all of this? Where are " the talks" the offers of surrender, the terms that will end "the war"?

Fuck.
posted by OHenryPacey at 4:54 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Jared Kushner flew to Aspen same day as ‘one of Putin’s closest confidants’ whose wife is pals with Ivanka

The original reporting on which that story is based can be found here and here. It suggests some pretty remarkable coincidences. To summarize:

On March 18, Kushner's plane and a Russian oligarch's plan both flew into the two airports nearest Aspen that could reasonably accommodate them.

Two days later, the oligarch's plane flies to the Lesser Antilles. On that very same day, two planes linked to Michael Cohen also fly into the area. My understanding of the Steele dossier is that it paints Cohen as a Trump campaign/Trump Organization Kremlin-proxy-talker-to. (IIRC, Cohen is the guy who tweeted the picture of his closed passport and was like, "I've never even been to Prague!")

Interesting coincidences. But it is also interesting that, according to Ivanka's Instagram photo, the Kushner family skies on rentals.

Nunes to CNN: "if I wanted to, I could have snuck onto WH grounds at night when nobody would have seen me"

This is a substantial piece of evidence in favor of the fifteen-possum-human-suit theory.
posted by compartment at 4:56 PM on March 27, 2017 [24 favorites]

Devin Nunes lived by the Bushido code prior to going ronin. Now sworn against his former masters, he cannot be perceived by human eyes for his is the way of stealth. None can stand against him, he could even be behind you right now. Nunes walks as the very wind, and moves like an irresistible tide of fog.
posted by supercrayon at 4:56 PM on March 27, 2017 [13 favorites]

I have been watching CNN since that tweet and they have not mentioned the Wolf/Nunes interview.
posted by futz at 4:59 PM on March 27, 2017

according to Ivanka's Instagram photo, the Kushner family skies on rentals

I'll be skiing on rentals this week, but mostly because of the hassle factor of carrying my gear around the airport. Also my boards are ten years old and not designed for a lot of fresh snow. So I'll be demoing, and maybe scout out a new pair to get with all the advances in ski design.

Discovering the Kushner & Trump family ski on rentals makes me think they're not really skiers. [/gatekeeping]
posted by suelac at 5:00 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

If their boots were rentals I'd agree. Carrying skis through airports is for the birds, but boots are personal.

I don't think I understand what's being implied by the plane coincidences though. Rich people fly through the same set of tiny airports? Is there anything else there?
posted by nat at 5:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

“My son-in-law alone can fix it”
posted by Going To Maine at 5:04 PM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Bees, surely?

I know bees are the hot thing to wish on one's enemies here at Metafilter, but I'll settle for nothing less than an angry army of the dead (LOTR).
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:04 PM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

If their boots were rentals I'd agree. Carrying skis through airports is for the birds, but boots are personal

They're multimillionaires, I'm pretty sure they don't carry their own gear.
posted by suelac at 5:05 PM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

And didn't they fly on trumps fucking plane? They weren't carrying their own skis either way.
posted by futz at 5:10 PM on March 27, 2017

Discovering the Kushner & Trump family ski on rentals makes me think they're not really skiers. [/gatekeeping]

Apologies for the poor wording — no slight against rentals intended. I've skied on them recently myself, and I think most people would have considered my last rental pair far superior to the 20-year-old skis I own.

I just would have expected them to drop a ton of money every year on a bunch of gear that they only use once and then replace next season. Rental skis may be the first real indicator that anyone in the family is capable of financial restraint.
posted by compartment at 5:16 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Same url, new CNN headline:

Nunes: 'For the most part' Trump officials were masked

-- He said other names were unmasked and he wanted to get to the bottom of why they were.
Nunes said he had to view the classified documents, which he stressed were unrelated to Russia, in an Executive Branch location because they intelligence community had not yet provided them to Congress.

-- "As somebody who supports our national security apparatus, it bothered me that this level of information would be included in intelligence reports because it just wasn't necessary," Nunes said.

He's full of shit. Probably saw his own name too. He's acting like a guilty man.
posted by futz at 5:18 PM on March 27, 2017 [42 favorites]

I am thinking that there will be a few holdouts who don't like the idea of the nuclear option

From your lips to the Cake God's ears.

I'll settle for nothing less than an angry army of the dead (LOTR).

Look, you don't just summon an angry army of the dead. First, you need them to swear an oath of service and break it, thereby cursing them to remain in the world until their oath is fulfilled rather than allowing them to pass beyond the Door of Night. Then you need a descendant of the King the oath was sworn to and a token representing said descendant's authority to release them from their obligations. And, importantly, they can only be compelled to fulfill the terms of their oath, not just to do whatever random thing you want them to.

The bees are much more practical, is what I'm saying.

(In a thousand years, after their spirits have wandered the halls of Congress in unending torment and these days have passed from the memory of all but the most learned lore-masters, Cruz and McCain and the rest will be called upon to fulfill their #NeverTrump oaths when the scions of the Orange Lord again threaten the earth.)
posted by tobascodagama at 5:23 PM on March 27, 2017 [36 favorites]

the Cake God
as played by Paul F. Tompkins
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:27 PM on March 27, 2017 [19 favorites]

I just would have expected them to drop a ton of money every year on a bunch of gear that they only use once and then replace next season.

Yes, exactly! But also: committed skiers own their own gear because you get used to a particular set of skis the way you get used to driving a particular car. Different skis react differently and any given pair isn't best for all conditions. So I would have expected the Trumpistas to have two or three pairs of skis with them for every adult skier -- or at least one pair of gold-embossed Volkls or something, just to show off their wealth.

Renting skis shows surprising fiscal restraint and a weird lack of narcissistic self-involvement, and casts doubt on any claim to be truly dedicated skiers.

To me, the fact of them renting skis and the timing of the trip (during the AHCA vote) tends to indicate that there were ulterior motives for the trip to Aspen that did not involve how good the powder was.

[/skiing derail]
posted by suelac at 5:27 PM on March 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

Renting Skis = RS = Russian Subterfuge
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:37 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

darkstar: “I feel really bad for those down-and-out rust belters whose lives have dealt them such a hard blow that Trump seems like the only possible answer to their anguish.”

I don't call them the Disgruntled Burger Shack Employee Party [Caution: Language] for nothing.
posted by ob1quixote at 5:37 PM on March 27, 2017

I noticed a new chant emerged during the Philly protest / shut down of the pro-Trump march.

Call: Punch a Nazi in the face?!

Response: Any time, any place!
posted by phoque at 5:41 PM on March 27, 2017 [82 favorites]

Adding to the intrigue surrounding the Zarrab case is the fact that Mr. Giuliani has recommended Mr. Mukasey’s son, Marc L. Mukasey, a fellow lawyer at Greenberg Traurig, to Mr. Trump to become the next United States attorney in Manhattan, according to two people briefed on the discussions. The firm’s spokeswoman said the younger Mr. Mukasey has no involvement in the Zarrab case.

To replace Preet Bahrara?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:46 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oh, please: After Donald Trump's healthcare setback, an eerie silence from the White House
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:46 PM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

“Winning Civilization,” Jim Wright, Stonekettle Station, 26 March 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 5:48 PM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Misleading headline: he reportedly offered, they said "when we're ready".

Donald Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner called to appear before Russia investigation committee

The Senate Intelligence Committee is expected to interview President Trump's son-in-law and adviser Jared Kushner as part of a sweeping investigation into potential links between the Trump campaign and Russian officials.

Mr Kushner - who was expected to be announced on Monday as the head of a new White House innovation office - volunteered to be interviewed by the committee, according to a White House official, making him the fourth member of Mr Trump's campaign operation to come forward in the past week offering to speak with congressional investigators.

A Senate source confirmed that the interview had been offered, but said that it would not be scheduled until the committee "has received any documents or information necessary to ensure that the meeting is productive for all sides."

posted by Joe in Australia at 5:54 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

" Mr. Giuliani has recommended Mr. Mukasey’s son, Marc L. Mukasey, a fellow lawyer at Greenberg Traurig, to Mr. Trump to become the next United States attorney in Manhattan"

To replace Preet Bahrara?

Last week, after plenty of drama, Trump fired Preet Bharara, the high-profile US attorney who was handling the case. Now prominent New York City defense attorney Marc Mukasey — the son of former US Attorney General Michael Mukasey, who at one point was defending Prevezon — is reportedly on the shortlist to replace Bharara.

To review, US v Prevezon was the weirder Russian money laundering scandal Bharara was investigating. The one with no obvious link to Trump, but one defenstration, one nosy invetigator who died in jail in Russia, and complicity in tax fraud from people in the Russian gov't.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:54 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Are we at the point yet where the out of the loop Republicans are having a sad because they were not invited to the Russia party that everyone else went to?

I think this is a viable plan of attack for dividing the Republicans.

Just a few innocuous questions like "Why do you think you were left out of the cool-kids conspiracy?" should do the job.
posted by srboisvert at 6:01 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

“Winning Civilization,”

Oh! I know this one! You win Civilization by resisting the urge to play "just one more turn."
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [20 favorites]

Meanwhile, Paul Ryan is going around telling donors that healthcare reform isn't dead and that he'll brief them on a new plan at a donor retreat as soon as this Thursday or Friday. He continues to blame the Freedom Caucus, despite ample evidence that he was bleeding moderates as well.

Those donors will want to hear that increasing the monetization of suffering is still on the table.
posted by srboisvert at 6:17 PM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Original CNN Nunes Headline: Nunes: Intel at White House came from Executive Branch

They seem to be backing off of this. I have just watched more CNN than I wanted to and they have not mentioned this again. They had a 10 minute explainer at the top of the hour that said yes, he was on the grounds and must have had a staffer sign him in and heavily alluded to WH complicity BUT that is it. They haven't replayed any of Wolf's interview. When CNN has something they push it HARD. BREAKING NEWS etc, lots of patting themselves on the back and tooting their own horn. That is not happening now anyways.
posted by futz at 6:20 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

The President has found the next thing he wants investigated: "Why isn't the House Intelligence Committee looking into the Bill & Hillary deal that allowed big Uranium to go to Russia, Russian speech...."

I presume someone on Fox said something like this, and he's garbled it into word salad?
posted by zachlipton at 6:29 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

You win Civilization by resisting the urge to play "just one more turn."

Literally impossible
posted by um at 6:41 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

"...money to Bill, the Hillary Russian "reset," praise of Russia by Hillary, or Podesta Russian Company. Trump Russia story is a hoax. #MAGA!"

"The Republican House Freedom Caucus was able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. After so many bad years they were ready for a win!"

He's playing "you're the puppet" like he's unaware that particular game ended four and a half months ago.
posted by zachlipton at 6:43 PM on March 27, 2017 [17 favorites]

It's also abundantly clear he didn't write that last tweet. No way would he use a phrase like "defeat from the jaws of victory."

All three are iPhone tweets.
posted by zachlipton at 6:45 PM on March 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

"Hillary Clinton sold our Uranium to Russia" is the standard line from right wingers whenever the Trump/Russia links are brought up. My Trumpish cousin was going on about it last summer, and Trump used it during the campaign.

Here's a Vox explainer/debunker.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:49 PM on March 27, 2017 [28 favorites]

Bannon probably wrote the last one.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:56 PM on March 27, 2017

scalefree: Is this the bear?

This is PIZZA! bear
posted by filthy light thief at 6:56 PM on March 27, 2017 [17 favorites]

I am open to the possibility that all those White House intruders have really just been Devin Nunes.

I am open to defining "nunes" to mean "White House intruder."

I kinda like it as the verb, "To jump the fence around, or otherwise circumvent the security of, a public place of great import, for the purpose of an inappropriate, illicit, or clandestine liaison. May connote involvement in Russian money laundering, a conspiracy amongst were-possums, or both."
posted by dirge at 6:57 PM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

I love that almost a full five fucking months since the election, Trump and the right's best argument is still, "BUT HILLARY....!" These rhetorical titans.
posted by supercrayon at 6:59 PM on March 27, 2017 [32 favorites]

I mean, it's almost as if the GOP has no real plans to govern, and is only even remotely successful when it is in the minority position so that the fact that all it does is complain but never actually solve problems can be masked by the supposed inability of them to do anything because of the majority party ...
posted by tocts at 7:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm looking forward to a future research paper, "Tracking the epidemiological implications of participation in an online community during the Trump administration" after everyone gets diabetes from all the cake eaten as a result of these threads.
posted by supercrayon at 7:07 PM on March 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

wait, he's still up!

@realDonaldTrump

The Democrats will make a deal with me on healthcare as soon as ObamaCare folds - not long. Do not worry, we are in very good shape!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:07 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

There are no American tanks at the Baghdad airport!
posted by Justinian at 7:10 PM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

The man is insane. For someone who thought it would be easy to be president/repeal healthcare/bend everyone to his will & has utterly FAILED at all of those things, here is his next plan.

Trump wants to do tax reform and infrastructure at the same time

The Trump administration is looking at driving tax reform and infrastructure concurrently, according to a White House source with direct knowledge.

It's a major strategic shift - infrastructure was likely going to be parked until next year - and is only possible because of last week's healthcare debacle.

President Trump feels burned by the ultra conservative House Freedom Caucus and is ready to deal with Democrats. Dangling infrastructure spending is an obvious way to buy the support of potentially dozens of Dems, meaning he wouldn't have to bargain with the hardliners.

Bill Shuster, the guy who would steer Trump's infrastructure package through the House, tells me he's optimistic Trump could get it done this year.

-- Trump needs fast victories and infrastructure is something that's big, flashy, and potentially bipartisan. There's no solid plan yet, but Shuster knows how to appeal to Trump.

That is the current plan. I'm sure that our rock solid and even-handed president will concentrate with all his might to see these plans through as long as they take. I have never been more confident of anything.
posted by futz at 7:13 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

There's no upside to not filibustering Gorsuch. No "deal" with McConnell or any Republican can be trusted. They will go back on any alleged deal, and will kill the filibuster if Trump gets a second appointment. Republicans can never again be trusted to act in good faith. Not ever. That well is posioned.

And he probably has the vote to kill it, but maybe not. Force him to put up. McConnell and the Republicans broke every norm of Democracy to steal this seat, make him follow through to claim their ill gotten prize. They don't get a pass on this.

And apart from simple "game theory", the Democratic base is in no mood to forgive any betrayal to confirm Gorsuch. Voting against the party buys no goodwill and should deservedly be the end of their career as a Democrat.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:13 PM on March 27, 2017 [49 favorites]

The DEMs are fucking killing me.

The Rs were fucking OUTRAGED with Bengazi-gate and "but her emails".

Now, when there is substantial, if circumstantial (for now), evidence regarding collaboration with RUSSIA there is almost silence.

WTF, mother fuckers? Get on this. Chase it down. I want to see some war-time summary executions. Because we are definitely AT WAR with those fuckers. (RUSSIA...the cold war ain't over.)

Where is the savage, aggressive OUTRAGE from the LEFT?

Nobody sells my country and my heritage out from under me without paying dearly for it.

Taking a step back for a moment, I never liked the idea of "No Drama Obama". Yes, he was cool, and I appreciated that, but there were MANY times when he should have been OUTRAGED.

I want to see some SEETHING, ANGRY FUCKING OUTRAGE...THESE MOTHER FUCKERS ARE FUCKING WITH OUR COUNTRY.

Somebody has to pay for this mess and it isn't the ignorant rubes who voted for this fuck-monkey. It has to be the the individuals who perpetrated this con-job.

I want heads and I want them yesterday!!!!1!
posted by snsranch at 7:14 PM on March 27, 2017 [30 favorites]

Wouldn't it make sense for the Democrats to have a specific health care proposal ready and set to advertise, here's what you'll get from us when you vote us in?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:14 PM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump wants to do tax reform and infrastructure at the same time.

*praying to Cake God* Oh please please please please please let him try to do this. I promise I'll be good.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:16 PM on March 27, 2017 [17 favorites]

I want to see some war-time summary executions.

I would like to go on record opposing extrajudicial murder.
posted by Justinian at 7:16 PM on March 27, 2017 [45 favorites]

Trump wants to do tax reform and infrastructure at the same time

This sounds insane if you think he has two separate plans, but I suspect the reality is that he'll just want to hand out a massive tax break to builders and declare he's officially done both.
posted by zachlipton at 7:16 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

I would like to go on record opposing extrajudicial murder.

Party pooper.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:17 PM on March 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

I remember when our elders worshipped a spaghetti God.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:17 PM on March 27, 2017 [13 favorites]

Same carbs, different day.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:18 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

I want heads and I want them yesterday!!!!1!

I have a few in my crawlspace if need some to tide you over.

edit: omg mods pls delete asap! [fake]
posted by futz at 7:20 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

State Department Press Room Goes Dark — At Least for Now: Officials said the on-camera briefings won’t resume for at least two weeks as Secretary of State Rex Tillerson moves to get a permanent spokesperson in place.

Micah Zenko makes a good point about this: the Pentagon will continue to hold press briefings. This puts the voice of US foreign policy entirely in the military's hands.
posted by zachlipton at 7:21 PM on March 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

Wouldn't it make sense for the Democrats to have a specific health care proposal ready and set to advertise

Would've loved to see them show up the minute the Republican "reform" went down in flames, with a detailed, rock solid, single payer plan, entitled the "Repeal and Replace Obamacare Act."
posted by dirge at 7:21 PM on March 27, 2017 [17 favorites]

Taking a step back for a moment, I never liked the idea of "No Drama Obama". Yes, he was cool, and I appreciated that, but there were MANY times when he should have been OUTRAGED.

This comment seriously misunderstands the racial politics Obama had to deal with. He was outraged plenty of times. After Trayvon Martin was killed. When gun control failed after Sandy Hook. But even then he had to temper his anger because the right was itching to yell ANGRY BLACK MAN. Remember what happened when he calmly waded into criticizing the police officer in Cambridge?
posted by dry white toast at 7:25 PM on March 27, 2017 [87 favorites]

Now, when there is substantial, if circumstantial (for now), evidence regarding collaboration with RUSSIA there is almost silence.

There is no reason to step in when your opponent is repeatedly punching themselves in the face.
posted by srboisvert at 7:27 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

NYTimes: Paul Ryan, Brought Down To Size

But he’s fooling no one any longer. Put to the test, Mr. Ryan revealed that all along, he doesn’t have anything more creative in his cranium than stale conservative dogma.

posted by monospace at 7:27 PM on March 27, 2017 [13 favorites]

Wouldn't it make sense for the Democrats to have a specific health care proposal ready and set to advertise, here's what you'll get from us when you vote us in?

They're currently identified with Obamacare, which is turning out to be massively popular. I think they should sit back while Republicans continue to shoot themselves in the foot over it. Afterwards, at election time, they can just say "we're the ones who didn't want to take your healthcare away". Plans for changing the existing system can wait until after the election, when they won't be a distraction from the granny-murderers and child-killers in the Republican Party.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:35 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump wants to do tax reform and infrastructure at the same time

That sounds to me like he isn't serious about infrastructure. We all know how his "tax reform" will turn out and who it will benefit, so I have no doubts there. But I won't be shocked if his interest in infrastructure is even less than his interest in health care turned out to be.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:37 PM on March 27, 2017

the Pentagon will continue to hold press briefings. This puts the voice of US foreign policy entirely in the military's hands.

Which fits, because to many right wingers, the "United States" is fundamentally just a military entity, anyway, intended to provide defense of the individual states, and to project/support/dictate their economic interests globally.

That's why it's the only budget item they don't mind paying for. Well, that, and the whole military-industrial profiteering thing.
posted by darkstar at 7:38 PM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Joey Michaels: "I'll settle for nothing less than an angry army of the dead yt (LOTR)."

Freaking Peter Jackson. The Dead did *not* sail up Anduin and participate in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. They helped Aragorn defeat the Corsairs of Umbar at Pelargir, whereupon he released them from their oath.

[/Tolkien derail]
posted by Chrysostom at 7:41 PM on March 27, 2017 [28 favorites]

But I won't be shocked if his interest in infrastructure is even less than his interest in health care turned out to be.

Look for a lot of "public-private partnerships" that result in taxes going to build and maintain toll roads and bridges, with the revenue ends up going to the companies that run the tollbooths but somehow don't maintain the roads and bridges.
posted by Etrigan at 7:44 PM on March 27, 2017 [33 favorites]

Wouldn't it make sense for the Democrats to have a specific health care proposal ready and set to advertise, here's what you'll get from us when you vote us in?

H.R. 676 - Medicare for All - currently has 72 Dem co-sponsors.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:49 PM on March 27, 2017 [88 favorites]

I wish the democrats would stop sitting back while the republicans are tripping over themselves. Schiff seems to be one of the only ones out there demanding a difference. The democrats keep acting like "surely this" since Donnie started winnig primaries (plz no primary derail. Plz no primary derail). They need to start going on the offensive and showing that they have a better, simple plan.
posted by gofargogo at 7:51 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Wouldn't it make sense for the Democrats to have a specific health care proposal ready and set to advertise

Does this count?

In wake of GOP failure on health care, Sanders to push single-payer option

Medicare for all/Single payer.
posted by futz at 7:52 PM on March 27, 2017 [16 favorites]

Look for a lot of "public-private partnerships" ...

That's also the ominous thing about Jared's "innovation office" or whatever it is. There's more than a whiff of "sell off pieces of the state in sweetheart deals" coming off of that, which smells more than a little like the flock of American ~~business consultants~~ con artists who descended on post-soviet Russia to ~~help with~~ profit from the transition to ~~capitalism~~ kleptocracy coming home to roost.

Which would make a lot of sense, actually, considering where all this seems to be coming from.

If they get very far with that sort of thing, it'll be very hard to put the pieces back together again.
posted by dirge at 7:57 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

Infrastructure:

Elaine Chao wants to privatize everything and trump will most likely be on board. I cannot imagine that the Dems will be on board with her ideas but who knows? They better not.
posted by futz at 7:59 PM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

That's why it's the only budget item they don't mind paying for. Well, that, and the whole military-industrial profiteering thing.

Also because (amongst other things) it's a national dick extension. In politics as emotive psychodrama, it means that the US is powerful enough that a macho President can beat up whoever they like. See also: every pointlessly jingoistic state ever, usually complete with big military parades to show off the toys.
posted by jaduncan at 8:02 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

I wish the democrats would stop sitting back while the republicans are tripping over themselves.

Generally, this is really good advice:

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

That is, unless you're just the right distance away, and you've sufficiently depleted his health bar, in which case:

FINISH HIM!
- Mortal Kombat

While the former is from a somewhat more credible source, I'll grant that the latter has a certain visceral appeal.
posted by dirge at 8:17 PM on March 27, 2017 [73 favorites]

Look for a lot of "public-private partnerships" that result in taxes going to build and maintain toll roads and bridges, with the revenue ends up going to the companies that run the tollbooths but somehow don't maintain the roads and bridges.

The way they did it here was that they sold off the right to collect tolls in exchange for maintenance/expansion money, and they wrote into the contract a state-guaranteed profit of 14% annually going to the private entity. It's basically a license to steal if you can get enough legislators on your side. I still don't know how nobody's uncovered the massive payoff scheme that had to be involved in getting that bill passed.
posted by indubitable at 8:20 PM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Wouldn't it make sense for the Democrats to have a specific health care proposal ready and set to advertise
[...]
Does this count? In wake of GOP failure on health care, Sanders to push single-payer option

While I'm all for single payer it would seem to me that a Democratic proposal would by necessity come from members of the Democratic Party, of which Bernie Sanders is not. That said, the Medicare for All plan has already been linked.

So, regarding GA-06. We all know early voting numbers are problematic predictors of the final result. Just look at President Hillary Clinton. But if anyone still wishes to engage in haruspicy the partisan breakdown on day 1 of in-person early voting was D60 R28. The electorate in the presidential election was D23 R46.
posted by Justinian at 8:22 PM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

Hate. I am full of hate. He may not actually be able to do this legally but the fact that he is so spiteful and ignorant makes me hate him even more.

March 27 at 11:01 PM Trump moves decisively to wipe out Obama’s climate-change record

The BAD news:

-- The order sends an unmistakable signal that just as President Barack Obama sought to weave climate considerations into every aspect of the federal government, Trump is hoping to rip that approach out by its roots.

“This policy is in keeping with President Trump’s desire to make the United States energy independent,” said a senior administration official who briefed reporters on the directive Monday evening and asked for anonymity to speak in advance of the announcement. “When it comes to climate change, we want to take our course and do it in our own form and fashion.”

The GOOD news:

The agency must first get permission from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit, where the rule is tied up in litigation, to revisit the matter. Then, agency officials will have to justify reaching the opposite conclusion of the Obama EPA, which argued it was technically feasible and legally warranted to reduce carbon pollution by about one-third by 2030, compared with 2005 levels.

“So, for the president, even if he would like to revoke the Clean Power Plan, he doesn’t have legal authority to do that,” said Jeffrey Holmstead, a partner at the Bracewell law firm who opposes the Obama-era rule. Holmstead, who headed the EPA’s air and radiation office under President George W. Bush, said he thinks the agency can justify reversing the regulation. But “they have to justify why they have changed,” he added.

It's mostly posturing to his base at this point thank god. He's probably not smart enough to know that he can't just sign off on this stuff. Still furious.
posted by futz at 8:24 PM on March 27, 2017 [21 favorites]

An example was asked for and and an example was given.
posted by futz at 8:27 PM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Politco is reporting (paywalled for now, but I'm basing this on the tweets) that Trump is demanding $18B in cuts for the current fiscal year to get a continuing resolution, including $1.2B from the NIH and $300M from CDC public health programs, especially HIV/AIDS programs. That's in addition to the massive cut he's proposed for next year. But an extra $2B for a border wall.

There's going to be another damn government shutdown.
posted by zachlipton at 8:27 PM on March 27, 2017 [25 favorites]

Meanwhile:

ICE agent shoots armed man in Chicago while attempting to arrest someone else, officials say [WaPo].

I am aghast that my first reaction to this was a resigned "well, that was bound to happen sooner or later." I mean, what the fuck.
posted by Westringia F. at 8:30 PM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]

Big Uranium? The uranium market has been in the doldrums for decades - you couldn't give the stuff away. Perhaps it's picking up a bit, perhaps it isn't. You tell me how many of the new nuke generators planned will actually get to be fuelled and when, and how much of the existing market isn't covered.

Big Uranium does not exist. It's not that sort of commodity. As for Bill and Hillary somehow slipping the Russians a sweet deal on the stuff - 40 percent of the world's supply comes from Kazakhstan. Then Canada, then Australia. The deal to which 45 alludes was the Russians buying into Canada (and took place under Obama, not Clinton), and... oh, why bother? Details and facts are no good here.
posted by Devonian at 8:32 PM on March 27, 2017 [23 favorites]

Politco is reporting (paywalled for now, but I'm basing this on the tweets) that Trump is demanding $18B in cuts for the current fiscal year to get a continuing resolution, including $1.2B from the NIH and $300M from CDC public health programs, especially HIV/AIDS programs. That's in addition to the massive cut he's proposed for next year. But an extra $2B for a border wall.

There's going to be another damn government shutdown.

This is our country now. The United States is now doing everything it can just to spite liberals.
posted by Talez at 8:36 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

If there's a shutdown and Republicans need Pelosi to save them (again) I suggest she demand an independent Russia investigation as the price of cooperation.
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:37 PM on March 27, 2017 [17 favorites]

It's not online yet, but the first little bit Colbert just did tonight about AHCA is must-see TV.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:40 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Have Glenn Greenwald and his coterie issued a mea culpa over the Russia thing yet? It was, what, barely 6 weeks ago when they were going on and on about this being the new McCarthyism and BUT HER EMAILS? Or have they scuttled back under their rocks?
posted by Justinian at 8:47 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

Maybe they'll just let the government shut down forever - it's everything they've always wanted. There won't be a functioning country anymore but at this point Republivand pretty much declared their intention to destroy America and themselves to spite liberals and wont be turned from it.
posted by Artw at 8:51 PM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Have Glenn Greenwald and his coterie issued a mea culpa over the Russia thing yet?

LOL. Plenty of dubious false equivalencies with Pizza gate left in them thar hills, I suspect.
posted by Artw at 8:52 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

"It's a child's desk," said Pres Trump of the table provided for the bill signings. "It's the smallest desk I've ever seen," he complained.

A desk for ants, surely.
posted by jaduncan at 9:00 PM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Maybe they'll just let the government shut down forever - it's everything they've always wanted. There won't be a functioning country anymore but at this point Republivand pretty much declared their intention to destroy America and themselves to spite liberals and wont be turned from it.

This is honestly what I'm afraid of.
posted by Talez at 9:06 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

Really not sure how Republicans can blame a shutdown on Democrats with total control of the government, but I'm sure they'll find a way.

I guess it's never too early to start looking for a secondary income steam, who knows if they'll reimburse federal employees this time. If you need an uber driver in DC on April 29th, I'll be the guy with the Toyota Camry full of dog hair.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:08 PM on March 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

Jeremy Bash (former CIA Chief of Staff) says that Sally Yates "had some very interesting things to tell the committee" about the timeline of when she told the White House that Flynn lied before Nunes cancelled the hearing.
posted by zachlipton at 9:12 PM on March 27, 2017 [63 favorites]

Look, I just need to know, how big a cake to I have to bake/eat? Like is one of those microwave mug cakes too small?

Also I have no idea whether or not to have hope today so I guess that's an improvement from a few weeks ago when hope was laughable?
posted by emjaybee at 9:15 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

If you microwave a cake, you can say a few words to Obama while it cooks!
posted by localhuman at 9:19 PM on March 27, 2017 [44 favorites]

NYTimes: Paul Ryan, Brought Down To Size

the provided illustration is especially piquant because it paints ryan as a little boy dressed in daddy's clothes, and on a more literal level, mocks him for buying his suits too large
posted by murphy slaw at 9:42 PM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

By linking this I'm crossing a lot of identity streams buuuut: I wrote up a state of the states on Medicaid expansion (with links for action in each state), and I think MeFi might be interested?
posted by peppercorn at 9:51 PM on March 27, 2017 [41 favorites]

Maybe they'll just let the government shut down forever - it's everything they've always wanted.

Hey, you know what? Trump wouldn't hardly be able to do anything, either.
posted by rhizome at 9:52 PM on March 27, 2017

He could cause great suffering, pretty sure that's enough for him. Destruction is all these people care about.
posted by Artw at 9:54 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

I guess Putin gets to humiliate us like he felt humiliated when the USSR collapsed. I can't believe how much it feels like the whole country has been letting itself get rope-a-doped into dismantling all the cultural ideals that fostered a sense of national purpose and at least reasonable levels of solidarity among the American people. Bit by bit, all the best most humane aspirations we ever had have been replaced by cynicism, resentment for others, corruption, and opportunism.

The Soviet Union collapsed under the weight of massive economic dysfunction going back decades -- The United States will because Putin has hurt fee-fees and the Trumpistas are craven manchildren. I don't think we're going to get the better of the debate historically.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:58 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

When I hear "these people" re: 45's administration I think "We are all trapped in John Carpenter's The Thing and just don't realize it yet."

I would gladly upgrade that to Twin Peaks, if for nothing more than the music, coffee and pie. But also as a markedly less absurdist approach to investigation as well as government.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:05 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

If the U.S. attacks Syria and hits the wrong targets, killing civilians, there will be worldwide hell to pay. Stay away and fix broken U.S.
-- Donald Trump, September 2013
posted by flatluigi at 10:45 PM on March 27, 2017 [33 favorites]

>> Nunes to CNN: "if I wanted to, I could have snuck onto WH grounds at night when nobody would have seen me"

This is a substantial piece of evidence in favor of the fifteen-possum-human-suit theory.

I guess this is a tangential question, but how does White House security deal with sneaky possums and raccoons entering the grounds?
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:00 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

If there's a shutdown and Republicans need Pelosi to save them (again) I suggest she demand an independent Russia investigation as the price of cooperation.

About four weeks into the shutdown, and riots looming, increase the price to include Merrick Garland's swift confirmation to SCOTUS.

I'll jot that down next to my fantasy about the 2019 Congress picking Speaker Hillary Clinton on Day 1, and the first order of business is the impeachment of Trump, Pence, et. al.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 11:01 PM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

> I guess this is a tangential question, but how does White House security deal with sneaky possums and raccoons entering the grounds?

Based on what I've read about the Secret Service recently, I'm going with "hookers and blow."
posted by mosk at 11:21 PM on March 27, 2017 [18 favorites]

Colbert on the AHCA (scroll down, video at bottom)

Bonus Colbert on Kushner and the Bureau of Obvious Nepotism
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:26 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

23 people ask the Justice Department to launch a criminal inquiry into its chief, Jeff Sessions

Nearly two dozen people from five states are accusing Attorney General Jeff Sessions of lying to the Senate Judiciary Committee about his communications with the Russian government and subsequently trying to cover up that lie, according to a complaint sent to the Department of Justice.

The complaint, which names 23 residents, states that Sessions gave false and misleading testimony during his confirmation hearing in January when he told the Senate committee that he “did not have communications with the Russians.” It further accuses the attorney general of covering up the alleged perjury by directing a spokeswoman to make a public statement saying he did not mislead the committee.

“We feel there is probable cause to charge him with a crime,” J. Whitfield Larrabee, a Massachusetts lawyer who represents the 23 residents, told The Washington Post. “We want indictments in the case. We want Attorney General Sessions to be treated just the same as anyone else. We don’t think that just because he’s the attorney general, that there should be a higher standard to bring charges against him.”
posted by futz at 11:26 PM on March 27, 2017 [64 favorites]

Secret Service should be able to do better than possum hookers

Do they know DC has craigslist
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:43 AM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

This is a good discussion of populism, democracy, and culture war for those who are interested in whether or not democracy is doomed, long term. Offers some reasons for hope!
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:07 AM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Really not sure how Republicans can blame a shutdown on Democrats with total control of the government, but I'm sure they'll find a way.

We already know the answer, because they've already been doing it for anything else going wrong.

First, the Republicans will say out loud, "this is the Democrats' fault!".

Next, Fox News and online alt-right circles will play this on repeat 24/7.

Finally, what passes for "real" media will write articles that kinda sorta refute this claim 7 paragraphs in, but put them under sensational clickbait headlines that give completely the opposite impression to the 80% of people who only read the headlines.
posted by tocts at 4:06 AM on March 28, 2017 [34 favorites]

The Georgia special election is getting a lot of attention, but there's a special election in Kansas that looks interesting even though it looks to be a safe Republican seat. The Democratic candidate, James Thompson, seems like a great guy, and the Republican candidate, has been missing debates.

Do any mefites have insight into this election?
posted by maggiemaggie at 4:55 AM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

Live-tweeting his shows and making excuses for Russia. Morning in America.

@realDonaldTrump
Watch @foxandfriends now on Podesta and Russia!
posted by chris24 at 5:01 AM on March 28, 2017

Nunes to CNN: "if I wanted to, I could have snuck onto WH grounds at night when nobody would have seen me"

He's like Archer's out-of-shape drunk uncle. I see his impressive level of expertise also extends to a full understanding of how much White House perimeter security is likely to depend on daylight.
posted by jaduncan at 5:01 AM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

nunes scrapped this weeks house intel meetings
posted by xcasex at 5:09 AM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

nunes scrapped this weeks house intel meetings

This nunes story is such a fucking absurd shaggy dog tale. The punch line better be impeachment of the goddamn president because I've already lost the plot.

Does he think he's helping? He's not helping. You know what it looks like when you keep cancelling hearings? That there's something you don't want the world to fucking hear.
posted by dis_integration at 5:13 AM on March 28, 2017 [58 favorites]

This nunes story is such a fucking absurd shaggy dog tale.

"That's quite an act. What do you call it?"
posted by Mayor West at 5:28 AM on March 28, 2017 [27 favorites]

My question is just how much longer they're going to be able to make hay on Fox about this before it starts losing old people's eyeballs. Seriously, Podesta? Are they ratings-driven at all?

We keep seeing how short-memoried the electorate has become; will they even remember who this is? Is the Fox viewer actually so hooked on the outrage-tainment teat that they'll stick to the channel even when it's boring and no longer topical?

_{Is it possible that Nunes is a possum? Will our heroes get out of this scrape and MAGA? Tune in next timeline!}
posted by aspersioncast at 5:28 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm not hip to parliamentary procedure on the committee level, but surely there's a mechanism for the membership of a committee to express no-confidence in its chair and oust him? And, yes, I know, the committee's Republican-tilted, but even his own fellow travelers have to be getting sick of Nunes's shit.

I'd think the advantage to a democracy of a large deliberative body would be the avoidance of concentrating too much power in individuals. And yet it appears that committee chairs and House speakers and the like have ridiculously outsize control of the functioning of the system with remarkably few checks on their power.
posted by jackbishop at 5:28 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Hey President McDoofus: the Russians didn't attempt to influence the election to elect Podesta. Your red herring is missing it's treasonous quid pro quo.
posted by notyou at 5:30 AM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

My question is just how much longer they're going to be able to make hay on Fox about this before it starts losing old people's eyeballs. Seriously, Podesta?

Podesta, Podesta... wasn't he that guy who made risotto once? For Hilary Clinton? And there was something scandalous about the risotto? Like, he used calrose instead of arborio? Or he was keeping child sex slaves in the basement of his risotto kitchen? Or something?

Anyways, I have no idea who "Podesta" is, but apparently he's a very bad dude.
posted by jackbishop at 5:33 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

"Bad hombre". Please, dude.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:37 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

NYTimes: Paul Ryan, Brought Down To Size

Wow, that editorial is brutal. Now if only the message goes out to reporters that Ryan's "serious, honest conservative policy wonk" facade is a sham, and reporters treat him and his pronouncements accordingly.

I'm sure Paul Krugman was grinning when he read it -- and thinking, now they notice?!
posted by Gelatin at 5:41 AM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sarah Jones in The New Republic: How Trumpcare's Failure Sets the Stage for Single-Payer.

Politically, the momentum clearly points left. Long derided by conservatives and centrists as socialist fantasy, single-payer health care (sometimes called Medicare for All) is having a moment. In January, 60 percent of Americans told Pew Research Center they believe the government has a “responsibility” to ensure health care access. That figure tracks with a 2015 Kaiser Health poll, which revealed that 58 percent of voters supported some version of Medicare for All. Democratic Socialists of America have experienced significant membership growth since Trump’s election, and its activists are canvassing for single-payer in New York and California. California gubernatorial candidate Gavin Newsom just added a version of the policy to his campaign platform. And Senator Bernie Sanders reigns as the country’s most popular politician—and he ran in the Democratic primary on a platform that included Medicare for All.

[...]

Trumpcare failed for numerous reasons, starting with the incompetence of President Trump himself and the dysfunction of the Republican Party. But the defeat of Trumpcare points to a deeper, simpler politics surrounding health care. Most voters have no opinion on the efficacy of high-risk pools. They think in expansive terms: They want health care, and they want more of it, not less. Trumpcare threatened that basic interest. If Democrats are to capitalize on this moment, they can’t satisfy themselves with merely preserving Obamacare. The failure of Trumpcare proved that Obamacare is a floor, not a ceiling; in fact, Trump himself helped establish that floor by duping his supporters into believing that “everybody” would be covered under a Republican health care plan. What voters want is better, more generous care, and the smart response is to give it to them.

posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:43 AM on March 28, 2017 [33 favorites]

nunes scrapped this weeks house intel meetings

If you read the CNN story, it looks like that may perhaps be a little over-stated. I'd certainly want to see some sourcing before I took it at face value. Yes, he did scrap the open hearing with Yates, et al, but the CNN story at least says that Comey and Rogers have opted themselves not to brief the panel today.

Which, uh... is a whole OTHER ball of a WTF, but not the particular ball of WTF that that tweet makes it seem like.

I follow this shit, and I love intrigue stories... but even I am rapidly losing the ability to comprehend any of this. Which, of course, is almost certainly the goal of someone.
posted by jammer at 5:47 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

but surely there's a mechanism for the membership of a committee to express no-confidence in its chair and oust him

The real truth is more complicated but the tl;dr is that chairs are appointed by the leadership, so no.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:54 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Anybody got a non-Fox source on whatever Podesta story they are reporting? My mom asked me about it. 'Cause she saw it on Fox.

(Googling previously suggested Hohn Podesta's brother's lobbying firm took took money to lobby for Russia? And then did... nothing illegal with it? As if Michael Flynn taking Russian and Turkish money weren't the LEAST scandalous part of the Russia story! But I fear I may be missing some details?)
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:00 AM on March 28, 2017

Meanwhile, the Trump administration is now deleting centuries of scientific data on the arctic. I'd say it's similar to Nazi book burnings, but really this is worse. With the books mostly there were copies around, in the case of the deleted data often the government servers was the only place it actually existed.

They're literally using Trump's election to deeply harm efforts to understand what's going on, because they don't like the answers science was coming up with. It's difficult to overstate just how damaging this sort of thing is, and the evil mindset that lurks behind the destruction of data for any reason, but especially for purely political reasons.

I do not think I'm exaggerating in the slightest when I said that this is worse than Nazi book burning. Trump and his team are, literally, trying to eradicate objective, empirical, data that they disapprove of for ideological reasons. And in some instances they are succeeding.

That this could be done on a simple order, not even an executive order, demonstrates a deep failure of politics in America. Until now we'd thought that simple norms, common decency, and shame at being seen as a book burner would be sufficient. But clearly it is not. The very instant we get a majority again we need, priority one, to pass a law absolutely prohibiting the destruction of scientific data kept in government hands, with the harshest imaginable penalties for deliberate destruction of such data.

We're seeing a 21st century book burning and the media isn't even batting an eye.
posted by sotonohito at 6:13 AM on March 28, 2017 [197 favorites]

"That's quite an act. What do you call it?"

The Republicans!
posted by nonasuch at 6:19 AM on March 28, 2017 [34 favorites]

I found the original Aristocrats joke to be far less offensive.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:23 AM on March 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

Sarah Jones in The New Republic: How Trumpcare's Failure Sets the Stage for Single-Payer.

I really think that Republicans were right about one thing and one thing only vis-a-vis Obamacare: if it passed and wasn't repealed quickly, it would be the skinny end of the wedge for single payer. The vast majority of people view the real problem of the ACA as not doing enough and the Republican base is way out of step with Congress--which had been obscured for a while by the rhetoric of "repeal and replace" (with the "replace with something way shittier and less effective because actually government has no role in healthcare at all" being mumbled sotto voce out of earshot of constituents). I'm hoping those chickens come home to roost soon.

The thing about the Democrats right now is that they can't push too hard because we've seen that the only thing that Republicans can get it up for as a unified caucus is opposing Democrats. We want to let those intraparty schisms grow nice and deep, let all that acrimony fester, and don't give them anything too obvious to come together to oppose. The second Democrats propose something high-profile, all those R factions will regroup like Voltron to strike it down, because that's all they are good at. It'll make them feel like they're doing something. We need to be really careful to keep our powder dry.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:27 AM on March 28, 2017 [41 favorites]

the CNN story at least says that Comey and Rogers have opted themselves not to brief the panel today.

"And furthermore, I don't have to go to school because I can learn everything I need to know from TV!"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:49 AM on March 28, 2017

okay we are now like three steps away from nunes getting caught dragging a dead male prostitute all over the capitol building looking for a closet to stash him in.

with yackity sax playing in the background
posted by murphy slaw at 6:52 AM on March 28, 2017 [30 favorites]

The second Democrats propose something high-profile, all those R factions will regroup like Voltron to strike it down, because that's all they are good at. It'll make them feel like they're doing something. We need to be really careful to keep our powder dry.

This is also why we don't need leaders out front just yet. We need competent, serious congress people making real arguments on TV, Adam Schiff has been great. Warren, Conyers, Ted Lieu, and others too with serious, workable, populist policies in opposition ready to roll out at a moment's notice, but not loudly just yet. It's still only 3 months into this shitshow. There's so, so long to go, and believe it or not, this is what they're doing with their honeymoon period, traditionally this is the most popular a government will be in the first 100 days, and it's down hill from there. Nothing the Dems propose can break though the all consuming Trumpstorm and Republicanfail right now anyway. Sit tight. Work on the message. Organize behind the scenes. Register voters. Recruit more and better candidates. Stoke the rage of the base. Press for real investigations and hold the line on everything possible. But it's not the time for a bold policy offensive, not yet. Save that for the meat of the 2018 midterms, because by then the full extent of the bill of goods Trump sold will be undeniable, and Republicans have nothing to offer but tax cuts and lies, same as always.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:58 AM on March 28, 2017 [52 favorites]

The thing about the Democrats right now is that they can't push too hard because we've seen that the only thing that Republicans can get it up for as a unified caucus is opposing Democrats.

Then every Democrat should resign their seat. That would show those Republicans!
posted by indubitable at 7:08 AM on March 28, 2017

I'd be happy to see the Democratic Party push hard for single-payer, but I don't think the party will do so without continued pressure from the base. If they do push for it, I fear their push would be dishonest opportunism, a bat with which to crack Republican skulls until they retake power, at which point the time will, once again, not be quite right, and once again, single-payer will never, ever happen. So I'm glad to see people continue to argue that single-payer healthcare is the best way forward, because it is.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:11 AM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump administration sought to block Sally Yates from testifying to Congress on Russia (SLWaPo).
posted by Superplin at 7:13 AM on March 28, 2017 [32 favorites]

Breaking article from the Washington Post:

Trump administration sought to block Sally Yates from testifying to Congress on Russia

According to a series of letters reviewed by The Post, Yates was notified earlier this month by the Justice Department that the administration considers a great deal of her possible testimony to be barred from discussion in a congressional hearing because the topics are covered by the presidential communication privilege.

Ms. Yates and other former intelligence officials had been asked to testify before the House Intelligence Committee this week, a hearing that was abruptly canceled by the panel’s chairman, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.). Yates was the deputy attorney general in the final years of the Obama administration, and served as the acting attorney general in the first days of the Trump administration.

So after realizing that Sally Yates was going to testify to the House Intelligence Committee, the White House tried to prevent her from doing so....Only to have Devin Nunes cancel the hearings, when they realized they couldn't intimidate her into silence! This action is extremely disturbing. I think Nunes really doesn't want something to get out--namely, that his ass got recorded talking about shady deals with Russia while he was on the transition team.

At least Lindsey Graham, the man I always want so badly to do the right thing, is casting doubt on Nunes' ability to impartially conduct a probe.

Graham: Nunes May Have 'Lost His Ability To Lead' Russia Probe

[Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)] said that Nunes must share the information he received from a secret source with the Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee.

"If he’s not willing to tell the Democrats and Republicans on the committee who he met with and what he was told, then I think he’s lost his ability to lead," Graham said.

posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:13 AM on March 28, 2017 [93 favorites]

Can we have an informal moratorium on Lindsey Graham and/or John McCain "sober Republican" pronouncements

Seriously, but you do have to admit they are masters of the craft.
posted by diogenes at 7:21 AM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

I've got some bees he could use.
posted by Mayor West at 7:26 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

Which bit about deleting climate data is not a crime against humanity?
posted by Devonian at 7:26 AM on March 28, 2017 [25 favorites]

Trump off to New York before meeting Chinese leader at Mar-a-Lago: A new federal notice suggests President Donald Trump will head to New York City for this coming weekend, prefacing a trip to Palm Beach County that will include a meeting with China’s leader.

The notice issued Tuesday morning shows flight restrictions of about 35 miles, a hallmark of presidential visits. Trump visits to Palm Beach County have all had the restrictions, which ban all unauthorized flights within about 11 miles. New York City has more flights. The Federal Aviation Administration notice does not identify Trump.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:28 AM on March 28, 2017

Blocking Yate's testimony is a pretty strong signal that there will never be a President Pence.
posted by klarck at 7:29 AM on March 28, 2017 [13 favorites]

What's next? Melting ice cores?
posted by Artw at 7:36 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Can we have an informal moratorium on Lindsey Graham and/or John McCain "sober Republican" pronouncements

No, they are providing cover for Republicans who are considering breaking party ranks on this. They are saying to other Republicans (in congress, and regular voters) that it's okay to take this seriously. This is not just some fantasy made up by Democrats. It's okay to put country before party right now. These are elder statesmen of the party trying to stop this from escalating into a situation that puts the government itself at risk.

I share every single one of those McCain/Graham statements on social media, and I wish a few other Republicans would step up and join them. (Yay Cheney? I guess?) Because the reaction in the comments sections on Republican media is like "McCain is old and senile. He needs to retire!" These guys are spending a lot of political capital on those statements because they seem disloyal to the party, which is a really big deal to Republicans, for whom loyalty is A Thing. I wish a few more were brave enough to join them.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:37 AM on March 28, 2017 [55 favorites]

Can we have an informal moratorium on Lindsey Graham and/or John McCain "sober Republican" pronouncements until one of them does a single fucking thing besides yammer about how things are troubling and how they might not go along with the Trumpist agenda before they happily go along with the Trumpist agenda where it counts?

Listen, I'm not happy with many of McCain's choices, but he's an ex officio member of the United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence by virtue of chairing the Senate Armed Services Committee.

That means his voice matters more than most to provide cover to other Republican members of the Senate Intelligence Committee if (more likely when) they decide to go after Trump in earnest. This is particularly helpful given the disgraceful behavior of Nunes on the House side.

edit: yeah seconding what OnceUponATime said.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:39 AM on March 28, 2017 [25 favorites]

For lawyers keeping track, Yates has David O'Neil of Debevoise. I'm guessing it's a DOJ connection.

(Yes, the Debevoise that Josh Lyman's dad was a partner at in the West Wing.)
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:40 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Backtracking a little:

Appliance and electronics companies push back on cutting Energy Star program.

This should not be that surprising ... we wanted the regulations to demand a certain level of diligence to prevent fly by night operations from being able to grossly undercut us in the marketplace by cutting every corner imaginable.

I'm on the board of directors of one of the organizations that signed the letter, though not an appliance manufacturer. There are representatives of appliance manufacturers on our board, including some signatories to the letter.

In general, I don't think this is a completely accurate reading of the manufacturers' intent in pushing to preserve ENERGY STAR. For one thing, it's not a regulation - it's a voluntary program. It certainly helps differentiate products in the market - that's the whole point - but it doesn't keep competitors from cutting corners, because it's not a regulation or standard. The benefit to manufacturers is that ENERGY STAR is a third-party confirmation of their claims about their product's efficiency, so that customers who care about that can trust them; because it's so widely recognized and universal it's got a lot of clout. It does cost manufacturers something to get tested and earn the certification, but they wouldn't do it if they didn't think there was a return on that expense in terms of added quality and credibility. There's a real upside to manufacturers in having ENERGY STAR around, and there's no easy and quick way for the market to replace it.

Some utilities use ENERGY STAR as the indicator for eligibility for their rebate programs, so if it goes away, it's not clear to me how those programs move forward. There are at least a couple utilities who also signed the letter (National Grid, Seattle City Light).

I've been assuming that killing ENERGY STAR would affect not just appliances, but buildings and the ENERGY STAR Portfolio Manager tool which allows building owners to track their buildings' performance over time. Portfolio Manager is the de facto (and in some cases de jure) standard for reporting building energy use in those jurisdictions that require building owners to do so (e.g. Minneapolis, New York, and others).
posted by nickmark at 7:45 AM on March 28, 2017 [38 favorites]

sotonohito: Meanwhile, the Trump administration is now deleting centuries of scientific data on the arctic. I'd say it's similar to Nazi book burnings, but really this is worse. With the books mostly there were copies around, in the case of the deleted data often the government servers was the only place it actually existed.

They beat Harper. Now Canadian scientists are trying to save science from Donald Trump. (Toronto Star, March 3, 2017) - it's a copy of Harper, whose impact on Canadian science is well documented, and back in December 2016, Canadian scientists warned US colleagues to act to protect research (Scientific American), which they (Vice) did (Wired). Also, there were hackathons to backup publicly available science data from any sources the "hackers" could find, and building auditable ledgers of alterations, basically versioning of data, to also document when data was changed.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:47 AM on March 28, 2017 [35 favorites]

Live GOP House Leadership presser.
posted by Devonian at 7:53 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

No, they are providing cover for Republicans who are considering breaking party ranks on this.

You know what's even more effective at providing cover for Republicans who are considering breaking party ranks on this -- or on any of the other things that they've bravely stood in front of the cameras to be sober, level-headed Republicans about before rolling over on the Senate floor when the vote was called? Breaking party ranks is even more effective.

Graham has voted with Trump One. Hundred. Per. Cent. of the time. He hasn't even tried to log a protest vote on a particularly egregious Cabinet nomination that was going to pass anyway. McCain at least nayed Mick Mulvaney because he knew that all the other GOP Senators (including Graham) were going to pass him through anyway.

There's a thing that military officers learn: You don't ask your troops to do something you're not willing to do. That doesn't mean you have to lead from the front every time, but Captain McCain and Colonel Graham should at least make it less obvious that they're standing at the back of the formation yelling "Y'all need to take that hill!"
posted by Etrigan at 7:59 AM on March 28, 2017 [48 favorites]

So, now Fortune magazine has John McCain as #9 on its list of 50 World's Greatest Leaders. (I'm not linking it, because it's bullshit.)

How myopic do you have to be to pick John McCain as one of the "World's Greatest Leaders"? Name a single issue that he's led on in the past 20 years that has actually had a lasting effect?

McCain-Feingold? Now defunct.

His Presidential race? He cravenly gave us Half-Term Governor Wordsalad.

His opposition to torture? I'll give him that. But his influence didn't seem to amount to much persuasion at all - which really is the core of leadership - among those who think torture is a good option when dealing with bad guys.

All the rest has been politically expedient, extremely flexible "maverickishness", including his repeatedly bending over backwards to support Trump in the lead-up to the election, despite knowing what an imbecile and a boor Trump was, and being shit on by him at every turn.

I'm sorry, but that is NOT leadership in my book, much less top 10 in the world. Screw you, Fortune.
posted by darkstar at 8:00 AM on March 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

Have Glenn Greenwald and his coterie issued a mea culpa over the Russia thing yet?

Has Greenwald ever criticized Putin? And not just in a "oh yeah, he sucks too but lets get back to the real tyrant Obama/Hillary" sort of way?

I tried googling but I just get the current Russian quagmire.
posted by asteria at 8:02 AM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Graham has voted with Trump One. Hundred. Per. Cent. of the time. He hasn't even tried to log a protest vote on a particularly egregious Cabinet nomination that was going to pass anyway.

Right, but ultimately, in the grand scheme of things, that shit doesn't matter. Cabinet picks are small potatoes to treason; I want them to deploy their political capital intelligently. Being party line on everything except Russia indicates they're fundamentally party loyalists who also put their country first. That gives them more credibility, not less.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:02 AM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

Ryan saying that ACA repeal-and-replace is still live, but no timeline - postive moves towards unification, too important to rush, but probably before June. (Isn't that a timeline?) Busy repealing regulations 'to put people at the heart of the government', committed to rebuilding government top to bottom, blah blah. Can't put the bill they'd like through because of the filibuster, so have to go through reconciliation.

First question - should Nunes stand down as chair of the intelligence committee, and does Ryan know what the source of his information was? 'No and no.' was the answer.

Nothing substantive on the health issue, of course, just trying to keep the pot boiling.
posted by Devonian at 8:03 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

You know what's even more effective at providing cover for Republicans who are considering breaking party ranks on this -- or on any of the other things that they've bravely stood in front of the cameras to be sober, level-headed Republicans about before rolling over on the Senate floor when the vote was called? Breaking party ranks is even more effective.

Other Republicans know full well that McCain and Graham's act is just that, an act for the cameras. They're providing cover, but not in the way people here seem to think. As long as it's just McCain and Graham doing their same tired McCain and Graham things, there's no danger of real momentum for investigations from Republicans. McCain and Graham on TV make it look like Republicans care about investigating treason, when they don't, and won't. They're putting up a PR smokescreen, playacting as the Maverickiest Mavericks who ever Mavericked, as it their designated role, when there's never been any teeth behind it.

If someone else other than the Idiots Who Cried Maverick breaks ranks, that's when shit must be getting real. We're not there yet and don't seem to be close.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:05 AM on March 28, 2017 [18 favorites]

McCain and Graham on TV make it look like Republicans care about investigating treason, when they don't, and won't. They're putting up a PR smokescreen, playacting as the Mavericky Mavericks who ever Mavericked, as it their designated role, when there's never been any teeth behind it.

McCain hand-delivered the Steele dossier to James Comey, and you think he doesn't take this seriously?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:07 AM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

darkstar: How myopic do your have to be to pick John McCain as one of the "World's Greatest Leaders"?

Very, and it helps if you think that the world stops at the US border.
posted by Too-Ticky at 8:07 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

I skimmed a few messages, then decided that the #GopDnD tag probably covers all of what I missed in the last 700 posts. Look at what it turns up in Imgur.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:07 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

McCain hand-delivered the Steele dossier to James Comey, and you think he doesn't take this seriously?

No.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:08 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Can't put the bill they'd like through because of the filibuster

They can't put the bill they'd like through because they don't want the government to guarantee access to affordable healthcare, and they know that their voters disagree. This is still going to be true in June.
posted by diogenes at 8:09 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Cabinet picks are small potatoes to treason; I want them to deploy their political capital intelligently.

If they're thinking of "Should we investigate possible treason?" in terms of "Have I accumulated enough political capital as a United States Senator to do it?", then I don't have faith in them coming down on the right side. And they were using the exact same playbook on those Cabinet picks, making sure the cameras were on them as Thoughtful Republicans Who Will Put Country Before Party, right up until they cast the Yea votes when it counted or made sure the whip count let them get away with a Nay. How many times does a dog have to roll over before you realize it's not an alpha?
posted by Etrigan at 8:12 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Yes. The presser was absolutely 'we need a bit more time to fix this very important thing', not 'we are so fucked because we were elected to do something we can't do and if we do what we want to do we will be so fucked', and thus it was as insubstantial but passingly awful as an eggy fart.
posted by Devonian at 8:13 AM on March 28, 2017

How many times does a dog have to roll over before you realize it's not an alpha?

I don't care if they're alphas and I don't care if they're posing. They are practically the ONLY Republicans speaking out about this issue right now, and I am grateful to them for it, even as I wish they would do more.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:15 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Seriously. As soon as it's business hours in AZ I'm calling Senator McCain's office to let him know that statements are good but actions are better. Any ideas what specific actions I should suggest re: Nunes?

Tell the staffer that in light of Mr. Nunes' recent bizarre actions you have lost confidence in the ability of the House committee to conduct a thorough and nonpartisan investigation, and you are asking Senator McCain to call for an investigation led by an independent commission or special prosecutor.

Also it's probably helpful to just repeat the phrase "clean CR, clean CR, clean CR" into the phone about a hundred million times. I don't see how we're going to avoid a shutdown at the end of next month. A clean continuing resolution — "clean" meaning that it maintains current funding levels without any of Trump's proposed cuts, defense spending hikes, or other major changes — is the desired outcome here.

Calling and demanding a clean CR is something that everyone, especially those represented by Republicans, can do. The earlier we start applying pressure on this issue, the less confident Republicans will be going into a shutdown.
posted by compartment at 8:18 AM on March 28, 2017 [19 favorites]

I have said a batrillion times that the Republicans will not move against Trump until he presents a serious threat to their agenda.

What I did not anticipate was the Republicans presenting the greatest threat to their own agenda while Trump does whatever he can by executive order.

Unless Trump explicitly tells Paul Ryan that he's not allowed to give massive tax cuts to rich people, I think the Republicans are just going to continue to stumble around yelling "TAXES!" while Trump sells Alaska to Russia for thirty rubles.
posted by Tevin at 8:19 AM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

McCain hand-delivered the Steele dossier to James Comey, and you think he doesn't take this seriously?

If he gave half a shit about it, he'd be publicly agitating for hearings, and demanding that party leadership do the same. Meanwhile, no one outside of the politics threads here seems to have heard anything about this, so I'm going to stick with my "publicly posturing as a maverick, but actually toeing the party line on absolutely all matter of substance" assessment.
posted by Mayor West at 8:20 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

White House statement calls @washingtonpost story “entirely false … White House has taken no action to prevent Sally Yates from testifying” (twitter)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:21 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Politico is saying Trump is in talks to throw out the first pitch at the Washington Nationals' Opening Day game. I'm imagining Nationals Park absolutely reverberating with boos.
posted by Lyme Drop at 8:23 AM on March 28, 2017 [20 favorites]

Can't put the bill they'd like through because of the filibuster, so have to go through reconciliation.

That means the current budget resolution stands until they're done with health care reform, because once they sign an FY2018 budget resolution it cancels out their current reconciliation authorization, which means Trump's tax reform initiative has to wait.

Can they (theoretically) pass a 2017 budget right now? Or is that off the table too?
posted by zrail at 8:23 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

How many times does a dog have to roll over before you realize it's not an alpha?

Given that John McCain was literally tortured by an enemy Russia was providing weapons to - given he refused early release unless every man captured before him was also released- I think it's not unreasonable to suggest first, that he has no reason to be soft on Russia, and secondly, that steel exists in that man's spine when he chooses to exercise it.
posted by corb at 8:23 AM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Well I guess I should start making calls to my reps about Nunes. What's the pronunciation of Nunes?
posted by medusa at 8:24 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

> What's the pronunciation of Nunes?

noo-ness
posted by Tevin at 8:25 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

The fact that McCain survived torture bravely does not give him a free pass forever on doing his job in Congress. No one forced him to be a Senator if he didn't feel up to it. As long as he is a Senator, I will judge his patriotism by his actions not his words.
posted by emjaybee at 8:27 AM on March 28, 2017 [35 favorites]

secondly, that steel exists in that man's spine when he chooses to exercise it.

I seem to remember a draft-dodging buffoon mocking him for being tortured and McCain still endorsing him, so I'm going to remain skeptical about McCain's steeliness.
posted by dis_integration at 8:27 AM on March 28, 2017 [53 favorites]

Politico is saying Trump is in talks to throw out the first pitch at the Washington Nationals' Opening Day game. I'm imagining Nationals Park absolutely reverberating with boos.

I'm imagining Trump failing to get the ball over the plate. He was apparently not a bad baseball player in high school, but that was 52 years ago.
posted by jedicus at 8:28 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

I think it's not unreasonable to suggest first, that he has no reason to be soft on Russia, and secondly, that steel exists in that man's spine when he chooses to exercise it.

Sure he does. His party has a President that could be impeached over real investigations, precluding passing of the Republican agenda. Same reason as the rest of them. McCain has built a career of claiming to put country over party, while never once actually doing so. You'd think his shameful appeals to his service record for partisan gain would be offensive to other service members, but I guess not.

And "when he chooses to exercise it" is "never". So I ask what's the point of knowing the exact steel content of his spine? Actions matter, not self-serving dissembling on CNN.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:29 AM on March 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

that steel exists in that man's spine when he chooses to exercise it.

This makes his decades-long refusal to exercise it all the more damning.
posted by Etrigan at 8:31 AM on March 28, 2017 [23 favorites]

Regarding the White House pushing back on the Yates story: Washington Post has publicly posted their documentation. (h/t to their data editor.)
posted by rewil at 8:31 AM on March 28, 2017 [43 favorites]

The Republican Party is the part of nazis, racists and traitors and mccain stands with it, making him a Nazi and a traitor. Don't pretend we're going to be saved by any "steel" in his "spine" - he is human waste poured into a suit, just like all Republicans.
posted by Artw at 8:31 AM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

I think it's not unreasonable to suggest first, that he has no reason to be soft on Russia

Except for hiring Paul Manafort's longtime business partner as his campaign director, among other shady stuff.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:31 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

O'Reilly and Fox have outdone themselves with racist crap, from Joy Reid via Media Matters:
O'Reilly crosses a huge, bright, red line: says he "couldn't hear a word Rep. Maxine Waters said because of her 'James Brown wig."
posted by readery at 8:32 AM on March 28, 2017 [50 favorites]

What's the pronunciation of Nunes?

Or El Nunerino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

Now I am imagining Nunes sneaking over the White House fence in a cardigan and jelly sandals. Spilling his white Russian as he's accosted by the secret service, he protests, "Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
posted by compartment at 8:33 AM on March 28, 2017 [13 favorites]

The Republican Party is the part of nazis, racists and traitors and mccain stands with it, making him a Nazi and a traitor. Don't pretend we're going to be saved by any "steel" in his "spine" - he is human waste poured into a suit, just like all Republicans.

One of the things that I've always liked about the Democratic Party is our ability to appreciate nuance. No Manichaeans we.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:39 AM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

Oh, no, better not accurately describe the Republicans based on the repeated evidence of their actions, someone might accuse you of being "Manichaean".
posted by tobascodagama at 8:43 AM on March 28, 2017 [20 favorites]

None of those letters posted by the Post are from the White House. The DOJ letter instructs Yates' attorney to contact the White House because any privilege in her testimony is owned by the President -- ask them, not us. Yates' attorney does ask the WH, says the privilege was waived due to public statements by admin officials, and offers a deadline for response.

It's not clear where the WH acted to block Yates from testifying.
posted by notyou at 8:46 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

Actual Democrats are generally marked by their desperate attempts to pretend Republicans are some kind of reasonable opposition that can bipartisaned with, they'll never call them what they are.
posted by Artw at 8:46 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

If he gave half a shit about it, he'd be publicly agitating for hearings, and demanding that party leadership do the same.

asking Senator McCain to call for an investigation led by an independent commission or special prosecutor.

McCain Calls for Special Committee on Russia: Congress Doesn’t Have ‘Credibility to Handle This Alone’
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:48 AM on March 28, 2017 [32 favorites]

It's not clear where the WH acted to block Yates from testifying.

The DOJ answers to the White House, doesn't it?
posted by diogenes at 8:48 AM on March 28, 2017

What's the pronunciation of Nunes?

"kʋɪslɪŋ"
posted by aspersioncast at 8:50 AM on March 28, 2017 [37 favorites]

The DOJ said if there is any privilege, it's the White House's, not ours; go ask the White House.
posted by notyou at 8:50 AM on March 28, 2017

One of the things that I've always liked about the Democratic Party is our ability to appreciate nuance. No Manichaeans we.

Republicans: not nazis, racists and traitors, but #1 with nazis, racists and traitors.

TBH, right now I don't really care if people aren't nazis, racists and traitors. If they want to not be considered such they should probably stand up to the nazis, racists and traitors running their party and country. If and when any actual action is taken that is serious enough to threaten a breach with the leadership, it then seems reasonable to consider them seperately from that. If the leadership consider them loyal team members, I will too. I think that's reasonable.
posted by jaduncan at 8:50 AM on March 28, 2017 [19 favorites]

Lindy West in The Grauniad: America has never seen a party less caring than 21st-century Republicans

I don’t know that America has ever seen a political party so divested of care. Since Trump took office, Republicans have proposed legislation to destroy unions, the healthcare system, the education system and the Environmental Protection Agency; to defund the reproductive health charity Planned Parenthood and restrict abortion; to stifle public protest and decimate arts funding; to increase the risk of violence against trans people and roll back anti-discrimination laws; and to funnel more and more wealth from the poorest to the richest. Every executive order and piece of GOP legislation is destructive, aimed at dismantling something else, never creating anything new, never in the service of improving the care of the nation.

Contemporary American conservatism is not a political philosophy so much as the roiling negative space around Barack Obama’s legacy. Can you imagine being that insecure? Can you imagine not wanting children to have healthcare because you’re embarrassed a black guy was your boss? It would be sad if it wasn’t so dangerous.

West really nails it here--the Republican party leadership continually demonstrate a total lack of care or empathy for the most vulnerable people in our society--whether it's in the arena of healthcare, climate change, racism, LGBTQ rights, and so on. They don't actually seem to much care about their supporters either--seeing as the leadership screws them over all the time too.

One can try to argue that they have "good intentions", but the results of their actions suggest that they don't. For instance, it really doesn't matter to me if they don't outright state that they are trying to hurt people of color with their voting disenfranchisement strategy--the effects show that they know and don't care or simply don't know. Neither condition is acceptable.

Healing the wounds inflicted by their policies and toxic media culture may never happen because their policies are going to promote instability that makes hope of reconciliation much more remote. Meanwhile, vulnerable people of all types will still get stomped on.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:51 AM on March 28, 2017 [103 favorites]

Here in Arizona, the prevailing theory is that McCain could be a sulfur-snorting demon with literal horns and a pitchfork, but because of what he did in Viet Nam, he will always be viewed through rose-tinted glasses and given a pass forevermore by many people.

There's something to be said for that, to be sure. If someone commits an incredible act of heroism and self-sacrifice for his brothers in arms, it places him on a different plane, so to speak, immune to the regular slings and arrows that might be hurled against normal men and women.

But there is also a view that an act of heroism in one's past, no matter how great and venerable, should not give someone a free pass to undermine the civilized society he sacrificed for, for the rest of his life. Nor does it mean we repeatedly re-elect him to a position of power to do so. Nor do we fail to call out as political expediency and cravenness when he exhibits it in his Senatorial actions. Nor does it mean that we assume that because he did that one heroic thing - amazing that it was - 50 years ago, he must have "steel in his spine" today.

I mean, if we're discussing nuance, I think we have to accept that argument cuts both ways.

That said, calling him an actual Nazi is definitely over the line, imho. And I'm very glad to see he is calling for a special committee on Russia. The degree to which it is a real call, or one made for show because he knows it will never happen - as seems to be his m.o. - is something I cannot discern.
posted by darkstar at 8:54 AM on March 28, 2017 [9 favorites]

From the WaPo article:

Justice Department notified Yates earlier this month that the administration considers a great deal of her possible testimony to be barred from discussion

So it's the White House via the DOJ. And they are clearly pinning the "false" allegation on the distinction between blocking her from testifying completely, and blocking her from testifying about any of the particulars that she's there to testify about.
posted by diogenes at 8:54 AM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

McCain Calls for Special Committee on Russia: Congress Doesn’t Have ‘Credibility to Handle This Alone’

Charlie Brown, standing on the football field, looks away from Lucy just long enough to see the headline. He laughs.
posted by Etrigan at 8:55 AM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

The White House wants you to think that the WaPo is claiming it has some kind of smoking gun evidence that they personally intervened, and that's what you should expect to see in the letters.

Instead, here's the claim:

Scott Schools, another Justice Department official, replied in a letter the following day, saying the conversations with the White House “are likely covered by the presidential communications privilege and possibly the deliberative process privilege. The president owns those privileges. Therefore, to the extent Ms. Yates needs consent to disclose the details of those communications to [the intelligence panel], she needs to consult with the White House. She need not obtain separate consent from the department.’’

Yates’s attorney then sent a letter Friday to McGahn, the White House lawyer, saying that any claim of privilege “has been waived as a result of the multiple public comments of current senior White House officials describing the January 2017 communications. Nevertheless, I am advising the White House of Ms. Yates’ intention to provide information.’’

That same day, Nunes, the panel’s chairman, said he would not go forward with the public hearing that was to feature Yates’s testimony.

posted by joyceanmachine at 8:55 AM on March 28, 2017 [21 favorites]

Oh, no, better not accurately describe the Republicans based on the repeated evidence of their actions, someone might accuse you of being "Manichaean".

To recap, the expression was: "he is human waste poured into a suit, just like all Republicans."

I'm just thinking that's not the most constructive language to use, particularly when we'll likely need the help of some of them to get rid of the actual human waste poured into a suit.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:56 AM on March 28, 2017

Oh, and I'm not sure that Godwin's law can be said to apply any more. Sebastian L. v. Gorka wears an actual Nazi ally badge and an added initial to indicate allegance to an unreformed Hungarian pro-Nazi force.

I'm pretty OK with calling him just a flat out Nazi.
posted by jaduncan at 8:56 AM on March 28, 2017 [31 favorites]

Well yeah, fuck that guy. Fuck all the racists and bigots and misogynists and antisemites associated with them; run them out on a rail. They have no place in political discourse.

But, you know, corb's been a Republican too. I don't agree with many of her positions, but I take strong issue with calling her "human waste poured into a suit."
posted by leotrotsky at 9:00 AM on March 28, 2017 [24 favorites]

That said, calling him an actual Nazi is definitely over the line, imho.

Is Trump still the Republican president? Is the White House still full of Nazis? Does McCain still stand alongside other similar slime? There you go then.

A Nazi and a coward. All his apologist bullshit counts for nothing.
posted by Artw at 9:00 AM on March 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

I don’t know that America has ever seen a political party so divested of care.

I pointed this out in an earlier thread, but:

“Pretty much anything with the pejorative suffix on it — ‘care’ — is going to be viewed unfavorably by conservatives,” said former longtime Mitt Romney spokesman Ryan Williams, who was with the Massachusetts governor when he signed Romneycare. Romney had hoped to tout it in his 2008 presidential campaign, and he campaigned on a promise to repeal Obamacare in 2012.

“Anything with the word ‘care’ in it pretty much sounds bad to people these days,” Williams said.

posted by J.K. Seazer at 9:03 AM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

Folks maybe we can leave off the "exactly in what terms can we criticize McCain" thing, points made.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:05 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

J..K.Seazer aside, all this milquetoast whimpering has got to end, by golly!
posted by y2karl at 9:06 AM on March 28, 2017

> “Anything with the word ‘care’ in it pretty much sounds bad to people these days”

So, all we had to do was rebrand to "American Patriotic Program to Destroy Ill-Health"? Huh. Maybe we should talk to some marketers.

(Also, I thought it was all about keeping government hands off our Medicare?)
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:09 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Sign me up for the War on Illness and Infirmity!
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:10 AM on March 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

We declared War on Cancer, but Trump still wants to defund NIH...
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:12 AM on March 28, 2017

soren_lorensen that is brilliant branding.

Although Nintendo might sue.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:12 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Affordable Care Act Repeal Is Back on the Agenda, Republicans Say

The fundamental disconnect between the various R factions as well as their constituents remain so I'm not sure what they think they can do here.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:13 AM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

I mean, what could be more American than freedom?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:15 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

"War on Illness, Malnutrition, and Poverty"

_dammit
posted by aspersioncast at 9:16 AM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

WILLI
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 9:18 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Sebastian L. v. Gorka wears an actual Nazi ally badge and an added initial to indicate allegance to an unreformed Hungarian pro-Nazi force.

Samantha Bee: Dr. Sebastian L. v. Gorka, Trump Whisperer "No, his first name is not suing his last name; we'll get to that later."
posted by kirkaracha at 9:19 AM on March 28, 2017 [23 favorites]

I mean, what could be more American than freedom?

FUCK YOU I'VE GOT ~~OURS~~ MINE... to fight for

Freedom ~~of Speech~~ to say racist things without being called a racist because that hurts my feelings.
Freedom of to Worship Jesus.
Freedom ~~from~~ to Want.
Freedom ~~from Fear~~ to die in a ditch.
posted by Talez at 9:19 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

I don't see how that painting of two people stealing a child out of its bed is supposed to make me feel "Freedom From Fear"
posted by thelonius at 9:20 AM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

How many times does a dog have to roll over before you realize it's not an alpha?

That's inconsequential, as this framing is toxic and doesn't help advance the debate. "Alpha" is a concept embedded in toxic masculine performance (and one that's not borne out by biology either---it really is a just-so story). It's a way of sorting people, men mostly, but male-perforant women too, into bosses and losers. In strong-man theory, you listen to bosses and no one else. this is partly what Putin struts around without a shirt on, for example.

So, if you're an incrementalist that just wants to get shit done, this is a toxic frame. "Alpha"/"Beta"/Omega" becomes a tool for destroying consensus advancement. Ideas can come from anywhere. Even people who have been devalued or discredited, who aren't at the top of the social pecking order. Contributions should be evaluated on merit, not solely on someone's past performance of a dominance display. Good ideas can come from everywhere.

Note that this isn't a competence argument. It's not about certain folks being idiots and asshats (or other low-value contributors). It's about being careful of blindly using social factors to decide if someone should be listened to, specifically gendered dominance displays.
posted by bonehead at 9:24 AM on March 28, 2017 [41 favorites]

The woman's overcoming her fear of children.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:25 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

How many times does a dog have to roll over before you realize it's not an alpha?

That's inconsequential, as this framing is toxic and doesn't help advance the debate.

You're right, and I apologize for a poorly chosen turn of phrase.
posted by Etrigan at 9:31 AM on March 28, 2017 [9 favorites]

I don't see how that painting of two people stealing a child out of its bed is supposed to make me feel "Freedom From Fear"

It's ICE again, isn't it?
posted by Artw at 9:33 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

That Samantha Bee piece... wow.

I've been trying to ignore Gorka, because he's British and it's embarrassing, and I kinda have him down as a comedy fascist a la Spode.

But no. He's an actual Nazi in the actual White House.
posted by Devonian at 9:40 AM on March 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

What a sore loser he is. Scared of a little booing?

And bouncing one about 20 feet short of the plate.
posted by chris24 at 9:40 AM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

We need a network of people in the field to stop illnesses becoming dangerously radicalised over time.
posted by jaduncan at 9:41 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Politico is saying Trump is in talks to throw out the first pitch at the Washington Nationals' Opening Day game. I'm imagining Nationals Park absolutely reverberating with boos

I anticipated this, and give away my ticket. I've always been so uncomfortable with the patriotic trappings of ballgames and this year I'm just not sure how much of that I can expose myself to, but this would be...too much. I honestly doubt this is something Trump even wants to do, but I'm not taking any chances with the one sweet refuge I have left.

on preview:

Go Nats!
posted by ezust at 9:42 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

Look, I'm not interested in starting a referendum on a specific user, but I do feel that I have to say this in regards to whether it's somehow crossing a line to use particular words to describe Republicans:

As a person who long identified with the Republican party, and who left the Republican party frankly much later than he should have, I feel qualified to say that anyone still identifying as a Republican at this point in history is going to have to own that, heart and soul. The GOP is the party of white nationalists, and of white rage. It is the party of nazis and granny-starvers. It is the party of Trump.

If you don't want to be associated with that, all you have to do is step away.
posted by tocts at 9:50 AM on March 28, 2017 [69 favorites]

The Washington Nationals say the White House has declined invitation for President Trump to throw out ceremonial first pitch Opening Day.

What a sore loser he is. Scared of a little booing?

I think he's more afraid of getting attacked by the mascot. Eagles, as patriotic birds, have a natural antipathy towards the Donald.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:50 AM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen: "The Washington Nationals say the White House has declined invitation for President Trump to throw out ceremonial first pitch Opening Day."

I have to say, as president, I would not do the first pitch. I feel it's part of Gene Healy called "The Cult of the Presidency" - the tendency to make the president into some sort of elected king. We joke here about Trump as God-Emperor, but there's a long-term trend in that direction that is disquieting, even without him around.

I wouldn't give a State of the Union, either, I'd send Congress a letter.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:50 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

Russian billionaire attempts to stifle AP scoop Perhaps this backdrop explains why Deripaska today took out paid advertisements in the Wall Street Journal and The Post to denounce the AP’s reporting.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:50 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

But no. He's an actual Nazi in the actual White House.

Yeah, pretty much. He makes more sense as a part of the same vaguely Orban and/or Jobbik social group that has attracted Nick Griffin enough that he's moving to Hungary. So, you know, every cloud.
posted by jaduncan at 9:51 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Gorka quoted in the Samantha Bee piece:

In the last 15 years, we haven't seen an Episcopalian suicide bomber, we haven't seen a Zoroastrian mass murderers. We've seen Muslim extremists.

Bee immediately debunks that by mentioning Dylann Root and Timothy McVeigh. There have been lots of mass shootings during that timespan; most of them by non-Muslims.
The Oklahoma City bombing was in 1995, so it wasn't in the last 15 years.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:56 AM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

I think he's more afraid of getting attacked by the mascot. Eagles, as patriotic birds, have a natural antipathy towards the Donald.

I think he was afraid of being upstaged by more popular presidents. And I doubt he could even beat Teddy in a race.
posted by peeedro at 10:02 AM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Gorka quoted in the Samantha Bee piece: "In the last 15 years, we haven't seen an Episcopalian suicide bomber, we haven't seen a Zoroastrian mass murderers. We've seen Muslim extremists." Bee immediately debunks that by mentioning Dylann Root and Timothy McVeigh.

A counterpoint brought through actually having used this same argument in conversation:

There are those who would still differentiate between Dylann Root and "Muslim extremists" because Dylann didn't kill in the name of Christianity, he was a mass shooter who happened to be Christian. To their minds, this is different from someone who says that "I am doing this for Islam!" or whatever.

I'm firmly in Samantha Bee's camp, I'm just pointing out that this is not a bullet-proof argument for that camp is all.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:03 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

They aren't giving up on that sweet, sweet ACA-repeal juice.

Mr. Ryan said House Republicans were determined to use the next version of the repeal bill, like the first version, as a vehicle to cut off federal funds for Planned Parenthood clinics.

Asked if he saw any signs that members of the conservative House Freedom Caucus might be willing to compromise, he said: “I don’t want us to become a factionalized majority. I want us to become a unified majority, and that means we’re going to sit down and talk things out until we get there, and that’s exactly what we’re doing.”

“We saw good overtures from those members from different parts of our conference to get there because we all share these goals, and we’re just going to have to figure out how to get it done,” Mr. Ryan said.

Repealing ACA is literally like the pleasure-dispensing button, they keep pressing it like the desperate rats they are. Faced with the possibility of having to govern, they scurried back to their only source of comfort.
posted by emjaybee at 10:04 AM on March 28, 2017 [39 favorites]

Gorka was being unusually careful with his words there. The November 2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting was pretty explicitly Christian terrorism, and resulted in multiple dead people and more injured. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Fox News isn't massively interested in going over religiously motivated anti-choice violence.
posted by jaduncan at 10:05 AM on March 28, 2017 [21 favorites]

In the last 15 years, we haven't seen an Episcopalian suicide bomber

Um, maybe not in the last 15 years, but Anglicanism was the religion of the Empire on which the sun never set, and even before that, you know, the English Reformation wasn't completely peaceful either. We* don't quite have clean hands when it comes to religiously-motivated violence.

*I am Episcopalian
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:07 AM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Adam Johnson in FAIR: NYT Says Congress Has ‘Duty’ to Make War–Rather Than the Right to Reject It

Originally launched in August 2014 under the auspices of “targeted,” “limited” airstrikes to stop an impending genocide, the war on ISIS has since expanded to include four countries, 50,000+ bombs, 1,000 attacks on civilians and over $11 billion handed out to defense contractors.

The Times correctly notes that the one-page “War on Terror” AUMF used to justify the original launching of the war in 2001 is on thin legal ground. But instead of then interrogating the legality or wisdom of this initial act—or whether or not the public would have gone along with it had they known it would eventually spiral into a global, never-ending war—it simply uses this initial bait-and-switch as further reason for Congress to validate it[.]

posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:08 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

In the last 15 years, we haven't seen an Episcopalian suicide bomber

I'm also really dubious about this claim given the multiple ongoing and quite nasty little Christian/Islamic conflicts in Africa.
posted by jaduncan at 10:09 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

In the last 15 years, we haven't seen an Episcopalian suicide bomber

I'm also really dubious about this claim given the multiple ongoing and quite nasty little Christian/Islamic conflicts in Africa.

I am dead certain that if you found one, they'd say "Oh, they're Anglican. Doesn't count."
posted by Etrigan at 10:11 AM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

Here's a short list of far-right Christian terrorist groups in the US, who qualify perfectly for the title.

(manfully resists 'was Anglicanism the official religion of Empire?' debate derail. But it's hard.)
posted by Devonian at 10:12 AM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

Spicey is calling the Sally Yates report a "false report...100% false" and says "I hope she testifies...we have no problem with it." He says the letters the Post published specifically say "if you don't respond, we'll go ahead [and testify]. We didn't respond." Silence is consent is, as always, not a great argument.
posted by zachlipton at 10:13 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

I am dead certain that if you found one, they'd say "Oh, they're Anglican. Doesn't count."

No. They'd say "that doesn't mean all Christians are suicide bombers" oblivious to the hypocrisy.
posted by Talez at 10:13 AM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

America's love of guns means that active shooters who commit suicide or suicide-by-cop don't get put into the same category of awed horror as suicide bombers, but they are utterly the same thing.
posted by Artw at 10:18 AM on March 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

I am dead certain that if you found one, they'd say "Oh, they're Anglican. Doesn't count."

Pity. My money was on "not part of Western civilisation."
posted by jaduncan at 10:19 AM on March 28, 2017

In the last 15 years, we haven't seen an Episcopalian suicide bomber

Ignoring all the other issues with this statement, 3.6% (82m) of Christians are Episcopalian/Anglican. I'm sure I could find a similarly sized sect of Islam that hasn't committed a suicide bombing in the last 15 years.
posted by chris24 at 10:20 AM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

I hope she testifies...we have no problem with it.

Great! Let's do this. What time does it start?
posted by diogenes at 10:20 AM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

Spicey is calling the Sally Yates report a "false report...100% false" and says "I hope she testifies...we have no problem with it." He says the letters the Post published specifically say "if you don't respond, we'll go ahead [and testify]. We didn't respond." Silence is consent is, as always, not a great argument.

Someone call John Stewart in to interview her on-air. They can bump whatever was going to be on at 9pm tonight on every station for it.
posted by mikelieman at 10:20 AM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

Fox Nes being overtly racist fucks today: "You saw what happened to Whitney Houston. Step away from the crack pipe..." - Eric Bolling to Maxine Waters (video)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:21 AM on March 28, 2017 [15 favorites]

Can see legally spill the beans if it's not to congress?
posted by Artw at 10:23 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

"O'Reilly was trending; I want to too!" - Eric Bolling, probably
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:23 AM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Fox Nes being overtly racist fucks today: "You saw what happened to Whitney Houston. Step away from the crack pipe..." - Eric Bolling to Maxine Waters (video)

That's Fox News being overly racist fucks in 2012. This is Fox News being overly racist fucks today, also about Rep. Waters: Fox News Anchors Laugh and Laugh After Bill O’Reilly Says Black Congresswoman Looks Like James Brown

They're really desperate to insult the appearance of a black woman now that Michelle Obama is out of the public eye, aren't they?
posted by zachlipton at 10:24 AM on March 28, 2017 [44 favorites]

With 45 ranting and twittering about Clinton and uranium again, I needed to go find the true story behind it, so for anyone else who needs a refresher:

Washington Post fact checker back in October gave the Clinton/Russia/uranium story four pinnochios.

(Gist: Russian company bought out a company that does control 20% of US uranium production, however the mines in question cannot export it. The deal was approved by a nine-agency committee, of which the State Department was only one member. And Clinton was not part of approving the deal - it was not deemed important enough for the Sec of State's direct involvement. And nothing shows her or Bill getting any money directly in return.)
posted by dnash at 10:25 AM on March 28, 2017 [28 favorites]

Gist: Russian company bought out a company that does control 20% of US uranium production, however the mines in question cannot export it. The deal was approved by a nine-agency committee, of which the State Department was only one member. And Clinton was not part of approving the deal - it was not deemed important enough for the Sec of State's direct involvement. And nothing shows her or Bill getting any money directly in return.

In all seriousness, she should sue.
posted by jaduncan at 10:28 AM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

[ENERGY STAR] is not a regulation - it's a voluntary program. It certainly helps differentiate products in the market - that's the whole point - but it doesn't keep competitors from cutting corners, because it's not a regulation or standard.

Right but because of the ENERGY STAR program, a manufacturer that cuts corners can't hide behind a bunch of marketing jargon or measuring efficiency in some way that makes their widget look efficient by that standard but costs more to actually operate.

Shitty products either don't get the certification or they do but their lack of efficiency gets dragged out into the cold light of day. Without it, consumers have to become experts in that particular product to ensure they're not getting fooled. It doesn't keep anyone from cutting corners but it does ensure that those who do can't hide that fact.

It really is a tool to keep everyone honest.
posted by VTX at 10:29 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

Spicer says there isn't a binary choice between caring about the environment, and job creation, in response to being asked if Trump believes that climate change is a hoax.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:30 AM on March 28, 2017

It is really hard not to indulge my scathing opinions of the appearances of these assholes making fun of Ms. Waters. I know we refrain from appearance-based criticism here, but I am Having Unkind Thoughts about these dudes' relative attractiveness.
posted by emjaybee at 10:30 AM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

Spicer, dismissing everything: "If the President puts Russian salad dressing on his salad tonight, somehow that's a Russian connection."
posted by zachlipton at 10:30 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Spicer says there isn't a binary choice between caring about the environment, and job creation, in response to being asked if Trump believes that climate change is a hoax.

"It's entirely possible for the President to not care about all of those all at the same time" - Spicer, probably.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:32 AM on March 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

Repealing ACA is literally like the pleasure-dispensing button, they keep pressing it like the desperate rats they are. Faced with the possibility of having to govern, they scurried back to their only source of comfort.

Donate to us for the 2018 Midterms, we'll really replace that darn Obamacare this time, honest!
posted by leotrotsky at 10:32 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

Now he's telling April Ryan to "stop shaking your head again." This is going...poorly.
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 AM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Russian salad dressing? Wtfingf??
posted by Myeral at 10:32 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

I want to send April Ryan a fruit basket or something.
posted by rewil at 10:33 AM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

I really enjoy how mad April Ryan makes Sean Spicer. Like, really a lot.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:34 AM on March 28, 2017 [42 favorites]

Interesting that they don't want to flat out say the climate change denying president who is dismantling investigation of climate change on behalf of other deniers is actually a climate change denier. Or admit to outright hating the environment. Having enough shame to dress things up isn't usually a feature of this admin.
posted by Artw at 10:34 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

@maggieNYT: "Stop shaking your head again," Spicer lectures @AprilDRyan, who is a grown woman.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:35 AM on March 28, 2017 [30 favorites]

Now he's telling April Ryan to "stop shaking your head again." This is going...poorly.

"Stop laughing!"
posted by leotrotsky at 10:35 AM on March 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

Yeah, the uranium thing is less than nothing and doesn't stand up to a moment's scrutiny. A better question is what percentage of Trump has been sold to the Russians. You know what Trump is, right? It’s this thing with nuclear weapons. And other things. Like lots of things are done with Trump. Including some bad things.
posted by Devonian at 10:35 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

I want to send April Ryan a fruit basket or something.

She just questioned a basket of something into a state of panic
posted by Myeral at 10:35 AM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Russian salad dressing? Wtfingf??

it's made with mayonnaise and ketchup so it's probably exactly what that cretin would put on a salad
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:37 AM on March 28, 2017 [13 favorites]

There is a 0 percent chance that Spicer would say that to a white guy in a suit, no matter how liberal the outlet he might represent.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:37 AM on March 28, 2017 [72 favorites]

If the President puts Russian salad dressing on his salad tonight, somehow that's a Russian connection.

I'll bet that witty response came straight from the president on a sticky note.
posted by diogenes at 10:37 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Repealing ACA is literally like the pleasure-dispensing button, they keep pressing it like the desperate rats they are. Faced with the possibility of having to govern, they scurried back to their only source of comfort.

How is this supposed to work? Are they not even trying to fit this under the reconciliation umbrella? I guess the House could try to pass a two sentence bill ("Obamacare sucks, and is repealed. Planned Parenthood shall receive no funds, nyah nyah nyah.") and toss it to the Senate to die, but that would be electoral suicide for the few remaining "moderate" Republicans and I'm not sure how likely they are to take a bullet to make the Freedom Caucus feel better about themselves.

So I'm not sure the pleasure-dispensing button works any longer.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:39 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'll bet that witty response came straight from the president on a sticky note.

phrasing plz
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:39 AM on March 28, 2017 [20 favorites]

Having enough shame to dress things up isn't usually a feature of this admin.

I don't think it's shame. I think it's a growing realization that most voters (including Republicans) don't actually want what conservatives want.
posted by diogenes at 10:40 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

phrasing plz

Sorry. A yellow sticky note!
posted by diogenes at 10:41 AM on March 28, 2017 [15 favorites]

So I'm not sure the pleasure-dispensing button works any longer.

It worked right up until they were in danger of having to deal with the consequences of following through. At that point, it was rather like a man who has been bragging about how good he is at pitching being offered a chance to finally throw one on TV.
posted by jaduncan at 10:47 AM on March 28, 2017 [25 favorites]

Stop laughing!

"Please clap."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:48 AM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

There is a 0 percent chance that Spicer would say that to a white guy in a suit

Sometimes their true colors just ooze right out of them.
posted by diogenes at 10:48 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

The Heritage Plan *Was* the Conservative Alternative to the ACA. It Was Much Worse Than the AHCA.

posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:49 AM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

Spicer's spin on Sally Yates is ridiculous. Yates and her lawyer clearly believed that DOJ was prohibiting her from testifying about "client communications" she had as Acting Attorney General and wrote to request permission. According to Spicer, they simply didn't respond, and he concludes everyone should have known that meant it was ok. Unfortunately, nobody asked him why they couldn't frickin' respond if they're enthusiastic as he claims for her to testify.

Anyway, here's a clip with both "Russian salad dressing" and telling Ryan not to shake her head, so you can see the full context.
posted by zachlipton at 10:50 AM on March 28, 2017 [13 favorites]

trying to imagine Donald J. Trump eating a salad
posted by beerperson at 10:58 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

April Ryan's reaction, presented in its entirety: "Lawd!!!!"
posted by zachlipton at 11:00 AM on March 28, 2017 [18 favorites]

My favorite part is where he says, "I'm sorry that that disgusts you."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:03 AM on March 28, 2017

Are there any legal grounds to prevent Sally Yates from testifying? Executive privilege is exercised by the executive to prevent employees of the executive from testifying. But Yates is no longer an employee. She is a private citizen. Is there any leverage or crime that would prevent her from testifying as long as she didn't release classified information?

She is a lawyer, but she isn't Trump's lawyer, so client attorney privilege doesn't hold. In fact she never talked directly to Trump. She did talk to Trump's lawyer, but that doesn't make her discussion privileged. It doesn't seem that she could be convicted of a crime if she just went to CNN and told her story. Is there possible risk of disbarment on some ethical principle?
posted by JackFlash at 11:08 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen: Russian billionaire attempts to stifle AP scoop
... via large paid advertisement.

Doesn't this have the potential for the reverse impact, in that significant scoops could instead be ways to get advertising money from Russian oligarchs, which in turn increase the attention paid to 1) the scoop itself, and 2) the publication that released the scoop?
posted by filthy light thief at 11:09 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

Sean Spicer has it tough - he has to get out there and make up some plausible or vaguely sorta kinda plausible 'explication' of what Trump has done and man, that's gotta be tough. He doesn't come off as exceptionally sleazy either as he does it - remember Ari Fleischer? That guy was selling it, whereas I kind of think maybe Spicer is a true believer. Which I find kind of melancholy.

It seems like the main theme of all these Press conferences, of almost all debate these days, is the gap between the two sides - the insane and us. Until both sides recognize and start working towards reconciling, we're screwed. And it's all the Republicans' fault. Just, to get that out of the way...
posted by From Bklyn at 11:09 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Every press secretary spins, but berating people for not believing the obvious lie you just told? That's ridiculous. Spicer's getting worse by the day. When do the rest of the White House press stop taking this?
posted by downtohisturtles at 11:10 AM on March 28, 2017 [40 favorites]

Sean Spicer is like a walking illustration of This is Your Brain on Cognitive Dissonance.
posted by emjaybee at 11:11 AM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

She is a lawyer, but she isn't Trump's lawyer, so client attorney privilege doesn't hold. In fact she never talked directly to Trump. She did talk to Trump's lawyer, but that doesn't make her discussion privileged. It doesn't seem that she could be convicted of a crime if she just went to CNN and told her story. Is there possible risk of disbarment on some ethical principle?

She presumably gave legal advice to the people she was briefing regarding Flynn. Discussing that without permission is (and should be, frankly) extremely dicey.
posted by jaduncan at 11:12 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

When do the rest of the White House press stop taking this?

This. So much this.
posted by H. Roark at 11:13 AM on March 28, 2017 [15 favorites]

She presumably gave legal advice to the people she was briefing regarding Flynn. Discussing that without permission is (and should be, frankly) extremely dicey.

If that's true, then why didn't the DOJ make that argument instead of the bogus argument they went with?
posted by diogenes at 11:15 AM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Politico: McConnell says Gorsuch will be confirmed next Friday, April 7.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:17 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

McConnell says Gorsuch will be confirmed next Friday, April 7.

Let's see the votes to kill the filibuster. Time to put up or shut up.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:18 AM on March 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

> If that's true, then why didn't the DOJ make that argument instead of the bogus argument they went with?

because they're disinterested in the details of anything and fucking incompetent besides?
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 11:18 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

In the last 15 years, we haven't seen an Episcopalian suicide bomber

Ignoring all the other issues with this statement, 3.6% (82m) of Christians are Episcopalian/Anglican. I'm sure I could find a similarly sized sect of Islam that hasn't committed a suicide bombing in the last 15 years.

Ibadis (dominant sect in Oman.) The term "Ibadi" even means "liturgy-minded," so they're pretty damn Episcopalian.
posted by ocschwar at 11:19 AM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

If that's true, then why didn't the DOJ make that argument instead of the bogus argument they went with?

A guess: publicly stating that she may not disclose the dates or existence of any advice given regarding Flynn is hardly going to allay suspicion.
posted by jaduncan at 11:20 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

I know to never read the comments, but the replies to April Ryan's exaspo-tweet mentioned upthread contain a fine selection of headshake gifs.
posted by Devonian at 11:20 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

She presumably gave legal advice to the people she was briefing regarding Flynn. Discussing that without permission is (and should be, frankly) extremely dicey.

Was she giving legal advice? She isn't Trump's lawyer. Trump is not her client. Not every conversation between two lawyers is privileged.
posted by JackFlash at 11:21 AM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

The White House says it’s “not familiar” with the economic impacts of climate change. Literally just never heard of the concept and asks the reporter to show them the research. It's astonishing.
posted by zachlipton at 11:24 AM on March 28, 2017 [58 favorites]

April 7? That's my birthday. Thanks for the tip on what to ask for as a present, Sen. McConnell.

Also:

Joy Reid: Was there a meeting this morning where folks decided to act like it's 1952? Cause not for nothing... it's NOT 1952.

Between Rep. Waters, April Ryan, and a dust-up between Angela Rye and Joe Walsh, it's been a bit of a day.
posted by rewil at 11:24 AM on March 28, 2017 [19 favorites]

Think about the economic impact on news sites that regularly feature "Florida man" stories and will have to close when the entire state is underwater.
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:26 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

She did talk to Trump's lawyer, but that doesn't make her discussion privileged.

Point of clarification: McGahn is the White House Counsel. The general rule is that WH counsel does not have typical attorney/client privilege with respect to the President or any other WH staff (for example, WH counsel has an affirmative obligation to report admissions of criminal wrongdoing to the AG; and it's also been established that the WH counsel cannot invoke privilege to withhold potentially relevant information from a grand jury). See the 8th Circuit case from the Clinton era ("In re Grand Jury Subpoena Duces Tecum") and another case from the same time in DC (In re Lindsey).

Basically - because the WH counsel is required by law to disclose any admission of criminal wrongdoing to the authorities, there is no expectation of privilege. Likewise, I believe the AG (or acting AG) has no attorney-client privilege with anyone in the admin, as their "client" is the US public interest.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:27 AM on March 28, 2017 [32 favorites]

NPR was pretty diverse in its political coverage this morning. They had an interesting piece on Occupy Wall Street co-creator Micah White, who says that protests don't make a difference but local politics do, so he moved with his family from Berkeley, California to Nehalem, Oregon, where he tried and failed to get into local politics, in a town of 280 people. It seemed like it could have gone better if he didn't come in as a Disruptor For Greater Good and instead spent more time understanding how the town historically worked.

At a basic level, it becomes easier to lie with every new lie, not accounting for the chances for real-world consequences.

Trump's reduced H-2B visas (low-skilled labor for nonagricultural jobs that U.S. employers say they can't fill closer to home) means seasonal vacation destinations are impacted. While H-2B Visas are fraught with their own issues, from wage theft and impacts on local wages, to labor exploitation as employees are tied to a single employer, this also means these companies and businesses scale every thing back, which impacts the local economies and puts local people's jobs at risk.

A long look at a small town that is in some way a microcosm of what's going on in our society or in our country on a larger scale — dysfunction and politics - a look at Cairo, Illinois, where they don't have a grocery store, or even a gas station, and promises of funds and economic development opportunities come in with politicians on tour, but leave as quickly. Phillip Matthews, a community organizer, asks of Trump: "If you can find billions of dollars to build a wall in Mexico, you can't find the money to fix this [housing project in disrepair]?"
posted by filthy light thief at 11:30 AM on March 28, 2017 [18 favorites]

So, is there anything actually preventing Sally Yates from testifying? Or telling her story to the press?
posted by JackFlash at 11:31 AM on March 28, 2017

In the last 15 years, we haven't seen an Episcopalian suicide bomber

But we have seen U.S. troops use weapons inscribed with Bible citations. Not to mention all the Muslim civilians killed under our newest Commander in Chief, whose foreign-policy and domestic-security approaches are explicitly pro-Christianity and anti-Islam.

(Blargh, did I actually just call him that? Pass the mouthwash, please. Extra Strength if possible.)
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:32 AM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

If that's true, then why didn't the DOJ make that argument instead of the bogus argument they went with?

Neither of us can know at this stage. However...if it isn't, why write a letter asking DOJ to clarify any privilege and confidentiality issues?
posted by jaduncan at 11:33 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

The White House says it’s “not familiar” with the economic impacts of climate change. Literally just never heard of the concept and asks the reporter to show them the research. It's astonishing.

I just forwarded that link to some coworkers. The mind reels. DOD has been addressing climate change as a threat to national security for well over a decade, and cities like Miami are experiencing regular flooding (even without storms!), and large areas of New York and New Jersey were trashed by Hurricane Sandy. Are these events just too minimal to notice, because their homes weren't damaged?
posted by suelac at 11:34 AM on March 28, 2017 [13 favorites]

They'll become "familiar" with the economic impacts of climate change the instant one of Trump's Florida properties has to spend money to mitigate flooding.
posted by zachlipton at 11:36 AM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

So, is there anything actually preventing Sally Yates from testifying? Or telling her story to the press?

Justified fear of heights and polonium.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:37 AM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

So, is there anything actually preventing Sally Yates from testifying?

I think just the fact that Nunes refuses to hold the hearing.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:37 AM on March 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

But we have seen U.S. troops use weapons inscribed with Bible citations.

was it

"Blessed are the peacemakers."

or maybe

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,"

wait, I know

"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?"

that's it i bet
posted by leotrotsky at 11:38 AM on March 28, 2017 [35 favorites]

The vagueness of the response and her willingness to testify probably indicates that whatever issues there are aren't showstoppers. I can just understand her caution.
posted by jaduncan at 11:38 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

They'll become "familiar" with the economic impacts of climate change the instant one of Trump's Florida properties has to spend money to mitigate flooding.

I would bet my lunch on Mar-a-Lago being in the FEMA flood zone.
posted by suelac at 11:39 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

zachlipton: The White House says it’s “not familiar” with the economic impacts of climate change

Perhaps someone should ask the president to talk on the economic opportunities of major weather events that will get more severe with climate change. (Link to U.S. News copy of Oct 24. 2016 AP coverage of Trump's $17 million "storm damage" insurance payout that he partially pocketed. Trump transferred funds into his personal accounts, saying that under the terms of his policy, "you didn't have to reinvest it.")
posted by filthy light thief at 11:40 AM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

Ibadis (dominant sect in Oman.) The term "Ibadi" even means "liturgy-minded," so they're pretty damn Episcopalian.

Another fun fact: the Ibadis are a subsect of the Kharejites, which literally means "those who left", and can be loosely thought of as the equivalent of as the "protestant" (i.e., "those who protested"), more puritan version of Muslims. (They are also sometimes cast as heretics of Islam by more conservative Sunni and Shia.)

There are more moderate and more fanatical subsects of the Kharejites (e.g., the Ibadites in Oman and North Africa vs the Azariqah in Iraq), too.

The term Kharejite definitely has mixed connotation, as there are hundreds of thousands of peace-loving Ibadi, in contrast to ISIS, which is sometimes described as a modern-day, militant Kharejite movement.

tl,dr: Islam is a land of contrasts.

The more you know.
posted by darkstar at 11:41 AM on March 28, 2017 [20 favorites]

They'll become "familiar" with the economic impacts of climate change the instant one of Trump's Florida properties has to spend money to mitigate flooding.

I await the bill demanding that home insurance companies not discriminate against FL home and business owners just because they bought property a meter above sea level. Call it the American Homes Protection Bill or something.
posted by jaduncan at 11:42 AM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Time to donate again to Sierra Club, as we did to ACLU with Muslim ban.
posted by rabidsegue at 11:44 AM on March 28, 2017 [9 favorites]

The Bristol County sheriff is currently in DC calling for federal arrest warrants to be issued for the leadership of sanctuary cities. He's meeting Jeff Session tomorrow.

In case anyone is as shocked as I am, this is Bristol County Massachusetts. This fucker, this piece of shit, is a dishonor to my state. I am shaking with rage as I type this. The most marginal political figures have been emboldened by the racism and xenophobia of this administration, not only to attack immigrants but to go after Democratic leadership they disagree with. This is the natural consequence of "LOCK HER UP".

Jesus take the fucking wheel.
posted by lydhre at 11:45 AM on March 28, 2017 [48 favorites]

Pass the mouthwash, please. Extra Strength if possible.

Here you go.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:48 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

> The Bristol County sheriff is currently in DC calling for federal arrest warrants to be issued for the leadership of sanctuary cities. He's meeting Jeff Session tomorrow.

That's the same guy who "offered up" Massachusetts inmates for Trump's wall construction, right?
posted by christopherious at 11:48 AM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

This whole "there's no Christian terrorism because no one is killing FOR Christianity" argument must be hilarious to all the people working in, around, or for abortion providers.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:49 AM on March 28, 2017 [42 favorites]

The Bristol County sheriff is currently in DC calling for federal arrest warrants to be issued for the leadership of sanctuary cities. He's meeting Jeff Session tomorrow.

Oh Jesus Christ. This is the utter tool who offered Trump unpaid, forced prison labor to build the wall. I expect a road trip down to Bristol in my future.
posted by galaxy rise at 11:49 AM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

The Bristol County sheriff is currently in DC calling for federal arrest warrants to be issued for the leadership of sanctuary cities

OFFS. It's not fucking illegal to decide not to help ICE. The whole program is voluntary.
posted by suelac at 11:53 AM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

The Bristol County sheriff is currently in DC calling for federal arrest warrants to be issued for the leadership of sanctuary cities. He's meeting Jeff Session tomorrow.

How is that supposed to work? The feds are going to arrest the mayor of Boston?
posted by diogenes at 11:54 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

They'll become "familiar" with the economic impacts of climate change the instant one of Trump's Florida properties has to spend money to mitigate flooding.

Not Florida, but this has already happened.

posted by TwoWordReview at 11:56 AM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

How is that supposed to work? The feds are going to arrest the mayor of Boston?

That is exactly what he wants, yes. That and, as previous posters have pointed out, to essentially legalize slavery so he can build Trump's wall.

A gentleman and a scholar, that one.
posted by lydhre at 11:56 AM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

In case anyone is as shocked as I am, this is Bristol County Massachusetts.

It has been kind of boring just supporting my reps for doing the right thing. Finally an opportunity to participate in yelling at the bad guys!
posted by diogenes at 11:57 AM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

Schumer on Trump's EPA executive order: "It reads as if it was written in an Exxon board room" (full statement)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:58 AM on March 28, 2017 [23 favorites]

Yates is already going to testify before the Senate panel though.

Sally Yates, the former acting attorney general, will testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee about Russian interference in the election.

The Obama appointee was blocked from testifying before the House Intelligence Committee after its chairman, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA), canceled this week’s hearings, where Yates had been scheduled to appear.

Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA), the committee’s vice chairman, told CNN that Yates would testify before a Senate panel even if she did not appear before the House committee.
posted by emjaybee at 11:58 AM on March 28, 2017 [24 favorites]

I have posted these before.

Trump acknowledges climate change — at his golf course

The billionaire, who called global warming a hoax, warns of its dire effects in his company's application to build a sea wall.

“It's diabolical," said former South Carolina Republican Rep. Bob Inglis, an advocate of conservative solutions to climate change. “Donald Trump is working to ensure his at-risk properties and his company is trying to figure out how to deal with sea level rise. Meanwhile, he’s saying things to audiences that he must know are not true. … You have a soft place in your heart for people who are honestly ignorant, but people who are deceitful, that’s a different thing.”

Trump's applications for a wall to protect his property repeatedly reference climate change.
posted by futz at 12:02 PM on March 28, 2017 [68 favorites]

Trump's applications for a wall to protect his property repeatedly reference climate change.

yeahbut I'm sure he has "a guy" do all that for him. I wouldn't bet money (or a cake) that el cheeto has actually seen those applications.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 12:09 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump is working to ensure his at-risk properties and his company is trying to figure out how to deal with sea level rise.

In Trump's defense, it's entirely plausible that he has not idea about what his company is doing at this level of detail. That would require reading or talking to subject matter experts.

on preview: what ArgentCorvid said.
posted by diogenes at 12:09 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Isn't amazing how rational, and sometimes even liberal, former republican representatives often are...
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:10 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

The thing about climate change, though, is that as this NYT map and article shows, it has getting on for 70 percent acceptance as an important and dangerous truth which needs regulation to combat.

The country across the board is solidly against Trump on this one (as is the rest of the bloody world, for what that's worth - oh, that might be rather a lot if you trash the Paris Agreement? Hm.) And, again, it's not something he needs to do to make something happen - it won't 'bring back jobs' or 'revitalise American industry', it'll just make everything worse, perhaps much worse.

So, again with the spite - but this time, it's spite against something that a majority of Americans in every shade of the map believe in and care about, more than the AHA.

For a populist leader, he's plumbing the depths of popularity.
posted by Devonian at 12:12 PM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

No, [McCain and Graham] are providing cover for Republicans who are considering breaking party ranks on this. They are saying to other Republicans (in congress, and regular voters) that it's okay to take this seriously. This is not just some fantasy made up by Democrats. It's okay to put country before party right now. These are elder statesmen of the party trying to stop this from escalating into a situation that puts the government itself at risk.

Far be it from me to be nice to these guys, ever, but when it comes to these non-legislative matters, where all anybody can do is talk to folks to shape events on committees -- especially when they are Senators trying to make things happen in the House, which they have like zero actual power to do -- I try to assume that whatever they're saying in public to the press is probably exponentially less forceful, detailed, and serious than what they're saying in private to their people, Reps and Dems both. If they're actively using their influence, it's not happening where we can see it, and that probably makes it more effective.

Or maybe they're just sitting around not giving a shit, but I really can't swallow that the Russia stuff is being dismissed by McCain in particular.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:12 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ah but if he refutes climate change, then he shouldn't get to keep money to alleviate climate change. Doesn't matter if he "knew" his name is on the papers, the money went to him.
posted by emjaybee at 12:13 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

A short tweetstorm on uncertainty in the insurance market. If Congress keeps talking about changes, it could scare off insurance companies, who are deciding now whether to participate in the exchanges for next year.

As I see it, the exchanges rely on a certain degree of trust: insurers are committing to offer coverage trusting that the government won't screw them over. That trust has already been violated in several key ways (e.g. the risk corridors, where insurers didn't get the money they were promised because Republicans refused to pay up, the House lawsuit to stop cost-sharing subsidies, and the attempts to stop promoting signups during open enrollment). At this point, there's no reason for insurance companies to trust that Republicans won't screw them over in even worse ways to sabotage the ACA. What happens if you commit to offer plans at certain prices and Trump comes along and kills the individual mandate or Congress messes with the subsidies as part of tax reform? Poof, your whole risk model is up in smoke.

Given that the GOP has been perfectly willing to go full-steam into system-breaking changes without regard for the consequences, It's hard to see why most insurance companies wouldn't run like hell. This will, of course, be used as evidence that Obamacare has failed and must be replaced with every citizen getting a bible and a box of Band-Aids, provided that they pass a drug test and satisfy a work requirement.
posted by zachlipton at 12:17 PM on March 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

Remember when the Tea Party was fresh and new and everyone worried that they would be ultimately hard for the mainstream Republicans to work with? And then for six years the two groups seemed to work together fabulously in the name of saying no to Obama and this narative sort of fell out of common conversation. But during those six years, how many times did the Republicans or Tea Party *get* something?

Six years and a little rebranding later and we have the Freedom Caucus. And what do we find but that the mainstream Republicans and the Freedom Caucus are having a hard time finding common ground on things they want. Funny, that. I won't be surprised if they manage to create literally nothing in the entire time they have the majority. They'll tear some things down, sadly, but that still falls generally in the bucket of "retroactively saying no to Obama". To create, though, I think will prove impossible.
posted by jermsplan at 12:18 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

I don't think the Freedom Caucus wants to create anything - isn't their whole deal drowning the G in a bathtub?
posted by thelonius at 12:20 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

I would bet my lunch on Mar-a-Lago being in the FEMA flood zone.

FEMA's flood map shows Mar-a-Lago being in either moderate (Zone B) or minimal (Zone C) flood hazard areas. You can order a free FEMA Flood Zone Map.
Not sure what the distinction is between "flood map" and "flood zone map."

Surging Seas Risk Zone Map shows trouble starting for Mar-a-Lago with a five-foot rise in sea level, but the Southern Boulevard bridge and main route to the airport is in trouble with a three-foot rise.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:22 PM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

To create, though, I think will prove impossible.

To quote Rent: "The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation."
posted by melissasaurus at 12:22 PM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

The top three countries with the largest Muslim populations are Indonesia, India, and Pakistan. Trump's Muslim ban (take 1) "would affect only about 12% of the world’s Muslims" and Iran is the only one of the countries named in the ban that's in the top 10.

Yeah, and I'm sure that's one of the arguments that the Trump administration is making in court for why this shouldn't be considered a Muslim ban, along with the "Barack Obama developed this list of countries which are failed states or state sponsors of terrorism" argument.

But the thing is -- there are no waves of Muslim refugees from Indonesia, India, and Pakistan. People don't flee functioning states. They flee failed states and oppressive regimes. So while only 12% of the world's Muslims may live in the countries on Trump's list, and I am very confident that a much larger percentage of the US's Muslim refugees and immigrants come from those countries.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:23 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

> Trump administration sought to block Sally Yates from testifying to Congress on Russia

Do Not F*ck with Sally Yates. The former acting attorney general is one hell of a poker player.
posted by homunculus at 12:31 PM on March 28, 2017 [22 favorites]

My dream: each and every Trump gang member getting thoroughly grilled by Yates, Elizabeth Warren, and Amy Klobuchar.
posted by emjaybee at 12:41 PM on March 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

Is Mar-A-Lago's flood insurance government subsidized? We should cut those subsidies.

Essentially all flood insurance is subsidized.

Perhaps someone should ask the president to talk on the economic opportunities of major weather events that will get more severe with climate change. (Link to U.S. News copy of Oct 24. 2016 AP coverage of Trump's $17 million "storm damage" insurance payout that he partially pocketed. Trump transferred funds into his personal accounts, saying that under the terms of his policy, "you didn't have to reinvest it.")

Meh, sometimes Trump manages to do perfectly reasonable things; presumably because he didn't think of a way to do something horrible in that situation. But collecting insurance - which one pays for - and then using the money in another way isn't unreasonable or unethical. The last time someone sideswiped my car I put about 70% of the money in my pocket and just did a minor don't-rust-too-quickly fix on it. My insurance premiums were predicated on providing me market repair costs, so collecting them is my right and ethical. I, as a person who doesn't mind driving a banged-up beater, opted to essentially forgo future resale receipts in exchange for having the money now.

There's nothing sleazy about that, and people have even gone so far as to buy back their seriously damaged vehicles on a "salvage title" from the insurance company who declared the vehicle a total loss and paid out market price for the vehicle as it was before the accident.

The only way this becomes unethical is if one were to double-dip by claiming another later payout for earlier damage. If someone had sideswiped me again I wouldn't have been able (ethically) to collect a full repair cost from that since the fender was already all beat up and bent. My insurance only offers to make me whole again, not better than before.

For Trump to take the payout and not rebuild isn't necessarily sleazy. He presumably was opting to forgo the future resale value of the improvements on the land. Now, from what we know of him it's highly likely he didn't pay taxes appropriately on that money, which might count as an accelerated return or at least might be subject to whatever the corporate version of Starker rules are. But that's a whole other ball of wax.
posted by phearlez at 12:41 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

The country across the board is solidly against Trump on this one (as is the rest of the bloody world, for what that's worth - oh, that might be rather a lot if you trash the Paris Agreement? Hm.) And, again, it's not something he needs to do to make something happen - it won't 'bring back jobs' or 'revitalise American industry', it'll just make everything worse, perhaps much worse.

True, but we've been told repeatedly that coal miners are the only real Muricans who matter. So fuck the rest of us and everyone's grandchildren, the coal must flow.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:42 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

My dream: each and every Trump gang member getting thoroughly grilled by Yates, Elizabeth Warren, and Amy Klobuchar.

Don't leave out Maxine Waters.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:43 PM on March 28, 2017 [20 favorites]

Rebecca Solnit: Protest and persist: why giving up hope is not an option. The true impact of activism may not be felt for a generation. That alone is reason to fight, rather than surrender to despair

Democracy Now: Rebecca Solnit on Climate Change, Resistance, Misogyny and "The Mother of All Questions"
posted by homunculus at 12:43 PM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

Trump's lawyer: Trump is immune from groping/defamation lawsuit at the state level because of his presidential supremacy.

Trump is looking to dismiss a defamation lawsuit filed in New York state Supreme Court by Summer Zervos, a past contestant on Trump's reality television show, "The Apprentice." Zervos filed the lawsuit in January, after Trump denied her allegations that he kissed and groped her inappropriately in 2007 at a hotel in Los Angeles.

In a filing submitted on Monday, Trump's lawyer, Marc Kasowitz, argued that "the United States Constitution, including the Supremacy Clause contained therein, immunizes the President from being sued in state court while in office."

...the U.S. Supreme Court noted [in Clinton v. Jones] that it was not ruling on presidential immunity for lawsuits filed in state courts, according to Suzanna Sherry, a law professor at Vanderbilt University.

Kasowitz asked the state Supreme Court to decide whether Trump has immunity from the lawsuit before otherwise proceeding with the case. He wrote that "allowing litigation on the merits to proceed prior to resolution of this crucial and threshold constitutional issue would unduly burden the President and would defeat the purpose of Presidential immunity," and stated that Clinton v. Jones established that courts should address the issue of immunity before taking other actions in such a case.

The decision on immunity will probably end up in the U.S. Supreme Court which, by that time, may have installed Gorsuch as its ninth member.
posted by darkstar at 12:49 PM on March 28, 2017 [21 favorites]

Roger Cohen: The Offender of the Free World

When Donald Trump met Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany earlier this month, he put on one of his most truculent and ignorant performances. He wanted money — piles of it — for Germany’s defense, raged about the financial killing China was making from last year’s Paris climate accord and kept “frequently and brutally changing the subject when not interested, which was the case with the European Union.”

This was the summation provided to me by a senior European diplomat briefed on the meeting. Trump’s preparedness was roughly that of a fourth grader. He began the conversation by telling Merkel that Germany owes the United States hundreds of billions of dollars for defending it through NATO, and concluded by saying, “You are terrific” but still owe all that dough. Little else concerned him.

Trump knew nothing of the proposed European-American deal known as the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, little about Russian aggression in Ukraine or the Minsk agreements, and was so scatterbrained that German officials concluded that the president’s daughter Ivanka, who had no formal reason to be there, was the more prepared and helpful. (Invited by Merkel, Ivanka will attend a summit on women’s empowerment in Berlin next month.)

Merkel is not one to fuss. But Trump’s behavior appalled her entourage and reinforced a conclusion already reached about this presidency in several European capitals: It is possible to do business with Trump’s national security adviser, Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, with Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, and with Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, but these officials are flying blind because above them at the White House rages a whirlwind of incompetence and ignorance.

posted by zombieflanders at 12:51 PM on March 28, 2017 [63 favorites]

I'm just reflecting on how nice it must be to have the power to vet and choose the judges that will be reviewing your case.
posted by darkstar at 12:53 PM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

> Ivanka, who had no formal reason to be there, was the more prepared and helpful.

This bar is so low it's proably melting from the heat generated by the Earth's molten core.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:55 PM on March 28, 2017 [33 favorites]

The White House says it’s “not familiar” with the economic impacts of climate change.

If Trump hadn't been so busy trying on that nifty jacket and mugging for the camera when he visited that aircraft carrier on March 2, he'd already know the answer. The biggest naval base in the world is just a few miles south of there, and the Navy itself is deeply concerned about climate change. I lived two miles south of the base and used to hear it from Navy people it all the time.

The chief engineer for the Navy's mid-Atlantic region -- not some tree-hugging liberal -- explained it here.

And the problems go far beyond the mid-Atlantic; there are 128 military bases, valued at $100 billion, at risk.

The world's leading news organization has reported on it.

What, he doesn't read fake news? No problem. One of his own beloved conservative outlets covered it too, quoting the Secretary of the Navy last year as saying we have to "do something to slow down sea level rise."

So sure, build more aircraft carriers. Don't worry about whether they have any place to dock.
posted by martin q blank at 12:57 PM on March 28, 2017 [34 favorites]

I kind of think maybe Spicer is a true believer. Which I find kind of melancholy.

He really can't understand why they're not just accepting what they're being told. Whatever top-down org he's been part of in the past sure hasn't equipped him for this gig.
posted by mikelieman at 1:07 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm just reflecting on how nice it must be to have the power to vet and choose the judges that will be reviewing your case.

Is there a precedent for a Supreme Court justice to participate in a ruling where the President who appointed him is specifically named as a defendant? (Obviously, there will be a ton of cases where the government is the defendant, and many of those I'm sure where the specific action of the government in question was ordered by the President, but are there any where the defendant is the person who holds the Presidency, being tried as a private individual?)
posted by tobascodagama at 1:10 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm just reflecting on how nice it must be to have the power to vet and choose the judges that will be reviewing your case.

This sounds like an excellent reason to filibuster all Trump nominees until any suits against him that are likely to make it to the Supreme Court are resolved.

Sure as shit better than "he's 75% done with his term."
posted by schadenfrau at 1:10 PM on March 28, 2017 [28 favorites]

So while only 12% of the world's Muslims may live in the countries on Trump's list, and I am very confident that a much larger percentage of the US's Muslim refugees and immigrants come from those countries.

A quick Google search turns up this data:

It would appear that the Syria, Somalia and Iraq (all on the original list of banned countries) account for about about 75% of all Muslim refugees to the US in 2016. They account for 41% of ALL refugees to the US, in fact.

If you leave off Iraq, as in the second version of the ban, Syria and Somalia alone still account for over half the Muslim refugees to the US.

So, yeah. If you wanted to severely curtail the flow of Muslim refugees to the US, that list of countries would be a good way to do it.

(Of course the original ban actually included ALL refugees on a temporary basis, so 100% of all Muslim refugees along with everyone else. And it banned Syrian refugees permanently, or at least indefinitely. Syrians alone were about 32% of the Muslim refugees we accepted last year, and for them the original ban was NOT temporary. And of course, the gov't reserved the right to renew the parts of the ban that nominally were temporary as well.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:10 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

Ivanka is the only thing keeping him going. He's clearly totally at sea without her.
posted by emjaybee at 1:11 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

Spicer has that touch of the bad tourist in a strange land; he will attempt to talk to the locals, and will speak more loudly and slowly every time they don't sufficiently understand or agree with him.
posted by jaduncan at 1:13 PM on March 28, 2017 [17 favorites]

The decision on immunity will probably end up in the U.S. Supreme Court which, by that time, may have installed Gorsuch as its ninth member.

No guarantee the current court would rule the same as in Clinton v. Jones, but it was a 9-0 decision (including Breyer, Ginsburg, Kennedy, and Thomas), so there is hope. The opinion doesn't deal w/ the state court immunity issue but they touched on it in oral argument (audio and transcript available here). Scalia was not impressed with the "the president is, like, a busy guy" argument (specifically citing that the president "plays golf" and if a president actually told the court he was too busy to deal w/ litigation that he'd better not be seen "playing golf for the rest of the administration"), so I don't think that carries much weight ("just...not credible" according to Scalia), and particularly not with respect to this president. Souter questioned whether a president could be brought into state court over a child custody case (Clinton's lawyer conceded that was a compelling point).
posted by melissasaurus at 1:14 PM on March 28, 2017 [19 favorites]

My dream: each and every Trump gang member getting thoroughly grilled by Yates, Elizabeth Warren, and Amy Klobuchar.

Don't leave out Maxine Waters.

Maxine leans over and whispers to Trump "When you come at the queen, you best not miss."
posted by supercrayon at 1:15 PM on March 28, 2017 [29 favorites]

Since Bill-O is being Bill-O again, a refresher:

He lost custody of his two children after they testified that he dragged his wife down a flight of stairs by the neck.

He's had to settle a sexual harassment suits for millions not once...

But twice.

He's lied about his exploits in reporting not once...

But at least twice.
posted by chris24 at 1:15 PM on March 28, 2017 [32 favorites]

538 approval tracker just updated to add historical comparison data. It's bad.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:16 PM on March 28, 2017 [13 favorites]

Invited by Merkel, Ivanka will attend a summit on women’s empowerment in Berlin next month.

When I heard about this my first thought was "I hope German Intelligence takes a very close at her and her devices."
posted by futz at 1:18 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Oh god, that 538 approval tracker goes out to 4 years.

Please no.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 1:19 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

Livestream of Democrats fighting to see Trump's tax returns in the House Ways and Means Committee:

https://waysandmeans.house.gov/live/
posted by diogenes at 1:25 PM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

The Limits of Presidential Immunity

MAY 28, 1997 (NYT)

Makes me wonder if Summer Zervos could refile in Federal court?
posted by mikelieman at 1:26 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

538 approval tracker just updated to add historical comparison data. It's bad.

Literally less popular than Gerald Ford was right after pardoning Nixon. It's not even close.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:26 PM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

I figure Trump is licking his lips and looking at Shrub's 9/11 spike and GHWB's Gulf War I spike. You know that's what they are aiming for -- a war is the always reliable way to get 80 percent of the American population fawning over you. They'd no doubt prefer a big terrorist attack in the US as the excuse, but they'll gin war up from scratch if they have to.
posted by tavella at 1:28 PM on March 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

House of Representatives votes 232-184 to do away with Broadband Privacy
posted by futz at 1:31 PM on March 28, 2017 [17 favorites]

538 approval tracker just updated to add historical comparison data. It's bad.

By "bad", he means Trump has shitty approval compared to many other presidents, not that somehow 538 thinks Trump is going to skate and become popular. For anyone else who might have panicked.
posted by corb at 1:32 PM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

they'll gin war up from scratch if they have to.

"On Wednesday, U.N. humanitarian officials said that millions of Yemenis were on the verge of starvation. Yves Daccord, director general of the International Committee of the Red Cross, warned that an extended battle for the port city would “put even more pressure on the population” and could tip the country into greater humanitarian crisis."
----
"Residents in Jinah described powerful blasts Thursday night that shook the ground and sent civilians fleeing, many of them dazed and bleeding. Three residents said that at the time of the attack at least 200 people were gathered in the mosque and a nearby building for religious instruction. Aerial imagery appeared to confirm that much of the northern section of Jinah’s mosque was destroyed, although it was unclear whether the strike was a direct one."
----
"Of course, there's nothing new about Iraqi civilians dying in American airstrikes — the country has been the target of U.S. military operations for decades. But Trump's aggressive approach seems a poor fit for the complexity of the current fight. The Trump administration is reportedly seeking ways to bypass Obama-era operational constraints meant to prevent civilian deaths. An Iraqi special forces officer, speaking anonymously to the New York Times, said there has been a clear relaxation of the rules of engagement since Trump took office. That claim was denied by a Pentagon spokesman."
----
Without any official notification, Trump sent 500 new American troops into Syria, ostensibly to take part in the upcoming assault on the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa. News reports suggest this deployment may just be the tip of the iceberg, with some saying that the plan is for hundreds more American troops to be added to the fight in the coming weeks. No one actually knows how many troops are inside Syria now, because the administration has largely tried to keep the build-up a secret.
----
“Almost 1,000 civilian non-combatant deaths have already been alleged from coalition actions across Iraq and Syria in March — a record claim,” Airwars said in a statement. “These reported casualty levels are comparable with some of the worst periods of Russian activity in Syria.”
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:33 PM on March 28, 2017 [19 favorites]

538 approval tracker just updated to add historical comparison data.

I like to switch it back and forth between "all voters" and "likely or registered voters" and watch the numbers shift, then imagine myself yelling in the face of the people who can't be arsed to vote but who dislike Trump what the actual fuck is wrong with you. Not the ones who are being prevented, of course, just the ones who deliberately decide not to vote.
posted by phearlez at 1:34 PM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

You know that's what they are aiming for -- a war is the always reliable way to get 80 percent of the American population fawning over you. They'd no doubt prefer a big terrorist attack in the US as the excuse, but they'll gin war up from scratch if they have to.

Even the W. administration did a lot of real, sustained work to craft a narrative and (fabricate) evidence in support of preemptive war to get sufficient public and media elite buy-in. It's hard to see this administration having even that level of focus or competence. Although we could have the test case for what happens to Presidential approval without public consent for war, it's not hard to see Trumpistan just firing on North Korea or Iran and provoking an instant war without planning.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:34 PM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

House of Representatives votes 232-184 to do away with Broadband Privacy

Current party balance for the curious is 237R-193D. Which doesn't mean there weren't defectors, of course, and I'd love to see a roll call to figure out whether there were any and who they were. But I suspect this was a party line vote with five vulnerable Rs not voting.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:35 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

And again, the picture when Pruzidud Brunp signs his precious anti climate change paperwork shows only dudes standing about. Haplessly grinning, visibly beer-deprived, standing dudes.

More often these days my mind plays Treebeard's line " Saruman! A wizard should know better!" and then something in me whimpers because these people aren't wayward wizards, they are just schoolyard bullies with too much power.
posted by Namlit at 1:41 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

I feel like every morning I wake up with a stroke coming on. Literally it is 930am in Auckland and so far these sociopathic fascist fucking assholes have:

-completely shown their asses with regards to black women, like get FUCKED Republicans.
-voted to do away with internet privacy, time for everyone to invest in a VPN because this shit is normal hahahaha, btw the new cyber-Stasi will be convened any moment now comrade.
-make moves like literal Captain Planet villians, like the environment how does it work? We don't need clean air or water to drink lol. Entire GOP made of future Immortan Joes.
-and oh yeah, that whole Manchurian Candidate president we have, lololol who cares about that tho, Hail Hydra! We don't need public hearings or any hearings or even ears when you think about it.
posted by supercrayon at 1:43 PM on March 28, 2017 [20 favorites]

I think that was the rules vote, with the actual bill up for a vote soon. They're still debating it on the floor.

One really nasty thing is that this is being done under the Congressional Review Act, which essentially salts the earth so the FCC can't make privacy rules in the future.
posted by zachlipton at 1:44 PM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Even the National Review is saying Nunes should step down.
posted by chris24 at 1:44 PM on March 28, 2017 [24 favorites]

I am salty as fuck this morning because I have loved Maxine Waters for ages, and it's only recently that the rest of the country has been able to share in what a fucking icon she is, and then this bullshit this morning. DO NOT COME FOR MAXINE UNLESS SHE FUCKING SENDS FOR YOU, you stupid assholes!
posted by supercrayon at 1:45 PM on March 28, 2017 [48 favorites]

But I suspect this was a party line vote with five vulnerable Rs not voting.

It could also be the deeply principled until it's inconvenient like Rand Paul. He happened to miss this vote in the senate.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:47 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Livestream of Democrats fighting to see Trump's tax returns in the House Ways and Means Committee

So, to correct the record, Rep. Renacci (Republican; a CPA) flat out lies about what is shown on a tax return. He claims, like the WH, that tax returns don't show anything and you have to look at the FEC disclosures. This is just wrong. A tax return would show, for example, K-1 information from any partnership (and likely LLCs) that he owns as well as FATCA reporting if he has any foreign financial accounts.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:49 PM on March 28, 2017 [19 favorites]

@Reuters: UPDATE: Nunes says he will not share his intelligence sources with other members of committee.

This is beyond ridiculous.
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:51 PM on March 28, 2017 [65 favorites]

Scalia was not impressed with the "the president is, like, a busy guy" argument (specifically citing that the president "plays golf" and if a president actually told the court he was too busy to deal w/ litigation that he'd better not be seen "playing golf for the rest of the administration"), so I don't think that carries much weight ("just...not credible" according to Scalia), and particularly not with respect to this president.

The Scalia part, for anyone who wants to enjoy it, is after 19:30. Or you can search for "Mr. Dellinger, can I ask you about that?" and then click that line. (Man the Oyez player is phenominal).

But you want a real treasure, given the 2017 context, you want to go down to 22:20 and get Kennedy saying this:

When we talk about privileges and immunities, we're talking about balances of interests, the rights of the litigant, the necessities of the President.

Here, it seems to me, that the President, during the course of the stay that this proceeding produces, is free with his staff and his resources to really, to continue to argue his case, to ruin the reputation of the plaintiff, to poison the well any way he can, just as the... as the other parties might try to do against him.

But he's in a very dominant position.

There's really nothing we have that could stay the President's activity in this regard.

That certainly is beyond the control of the Court.

So it seems to me that the imbalance here is very substantial.

And I know of no compensating balance mechanism to protect the plaintiff.

Dellinger's answer to that seems positively quaint.

Well, I think that certainly political pressures would cut against that.
posted by phearlez at 1:51 PM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Livestream of Democrats fighting to see Trump's tax returns in the House Ways and Means Committee.

Democrats appear to have found their spines. Things are getting hot in there.
posted by Glibpaxman at 1:58 PM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

@Reuters: UPDATE: Nunes says he will not share his intelligence sources with other members of committee.

This is beyond ridiculous

Bright lights of fuckery!
posted by dis_integration at 1:58 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Does Nunes want an independent investigation? He's poisoning any chance of the committee's findings being seen with legitimacy. It doesn't matter if he does a 180 and becomes completely transparent about everything going forward. The damage is already done.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:04 PM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

My dream: each and every Trump gang member getting thoroughly grilled by Yates, Elizabeth Warren, and Amy Klobuchar.

Don't leave out Maxine Waters.

Actually, rather than Aunt Maxine grilling them, I think that after they are all post-grilling lifeless husks, she should come in and wrap things up with a comprehensive performance review and suggestions for improvement. While they sit there and cry.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:05 PM on March 28, 2017 [15 favorites]

Debate is over on the FCC privacy regulations. A vote will take place later tonight.
posted by zachlipton at 2:11 PM on March 28, 2017

One really nasty thing is that this is being done under the Congressional Review Act, which essentially salts the earth so the FCC can't make privacy rules in the future.

Surely there's some eventual way around that if/when sane adults are in place again in the future?
posted by dnash at 2:12 PM on March 28, 2017

Top House Republicans favor funding key ObamaCare payments

These would be the cost-sharing reduction payments that House Republicans are currently suing to stop. It's almost like they're starting to realize that they own this thing now and will be held responsible for its favor.
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on March 28, 2017 [9 favorites]

Nunes clearly believes that there will never be an independent investigation. Either that or he's hoping to taint all the evidence so badly that an independent investigation won't be able to turn anything up. But, in the latter case, he could still be investigated for obstruction of justice or destroying evidence, so I'm leaning toward the first one.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:15 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm starting to think Devin Nunes is brain damaged. Poor chap.
posted by Justinian at 2:16 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Surely there's some eventual way around that if/when sane adults are in place again in the future?

Yes, if Congress itself passes the relevant laws. Executive agencies can't override the CRA (the CRA wouldn't make much sense if they could).
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:16 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

The squishiest part of the CRA is the fact that it says agencies can't craft a "substantially similar" rule to one that Congress invalidated, but gives zero guidance on how similar you can get before it's "substantial." And since the CRA has only been used once before on a low-profile ergonomics rule, it's never been tested in court.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:20 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Aside from the sheer inexplicability of Nunes acting like a complete loony partisan loose cannon, it's like he's holding up a massive neon sign saying, FBI: PLEASE INVESTIGATE ME; I'M IN THIS SHIT UP TO MY EYEBALLS.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:20 PM on March 28, 2017 [52 favorites]

Because of my previously mentioned saltiness, I do not have patience for twitter trolls this morning. I remember someone on Mefi talking about wasting a trolls time and how satisfying that is, so when this woman just threw down on me about "infanticide" instead of blocking her I've been tweeting her gif after gif of people laughing. She keeps responding! I have finally just told her that I will donate $5 bucks to PP for every tweet she sends me. Seems to have spooked her for now. AUDIENCE WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT HERE ON TROLL THEATER?
posted by supercrayon at 2:21 PM on March 28, 2017 [37 favorites]

I think Nunes believes Trump is actually innocent of all collusion with Russia, and that this whole investigation is just a political ploy to delegitimize Trump, and will go away eventually. How is it possible for him to believe in Trump's complete innocence, not harboring even a hint of suspicion? Well, he claims to be completely ignorant of the details of the case, having never heard of Roger Stone or Carter Page. So I think he's deliberately avoiding learning anything that might make Trump look bad -- anyway you'd have to look to the "liberal media" to learn about that stuff, and they have no credibility, to him. And then too, he knows that Benghazi! was never so much an investigation as a political smear campaign. He just assumes that the Democrats would want to try the same tactic. And finally, it's tribal epistemology. Trump's a Republican and therefor one of the "good guys," to Nunes. It's just ridiculous to imagine he might be in the wrong and the scurrilous liberals in the right. Preposterous!

In other words, Nunes drank the Kool Aid, and like other cult members who've made the same mistake, he's suffering for it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:22 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

A Dem Congress could pass a new law invalidating the CRA itself, of course.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:24 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

House intel panel chief Nunes say he will not divulge his sources

Asked by a Fox News reporter whether he would inform the other committee members about who gave him the reports he viewed on the White House grounds last week, Nunes said: "We will never reveal those sources and methods."

Who exactly is "We" in this situation?
posted by Uncle Ira at 2:28 PM on March 28, 2017 [21 favorites]

How the FUCK is the CRA not a violation of the Separation of Powers. If Congress doesn't like what the Executive does with the Laws it passes... Pass a different law.
posted by mikelieman at 2:30 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Nunes: I'm implicated! What do I do?
Legal: They'd have to believe you were insane..
Nunes: Hold my uber.
posted by erisfree at 2:30 PM on March 28, 2017 [19 favorites]

Nunes' flop sweat smells like someone who knows he's being set up to take a fall. [/wishful thinking]
posted by klarck at 2:31 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Who exactly is "We" in this situation?

Nunes, Trump, FOX news and InfoWars.
posted by Artw at 2:33 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

I keep picturing Nunes as a clueless teenager who threw a party when his parents were out of town, and is now bumbling around trying to stop them from finding out. We're all just waiting for the point when somebody opens a closet door and a giant pile of beer cans come pouring out.
posted by parallellines at 2:33 PM on March 28, 2017 [23 favorites]

WHO ARE THE ASSHOLES WHO ARE TALKING VERY LOUDLY OVER REP CHU????
posted by waitangi at 2:33 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

"Flop sweat" is such a great phrase.
posted by Lyme Drop at 2:34 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

Possible Trump Science Advisor Compares Climate Science to ISIS, Tells Us Jezebel 'Is Well Named'. This is a guy who Trump met with in January, known for comparing climate science to Nazi persecution. He's really damn strange:

If I understand the thrust of the article you are writing, your organization is well named. The original Queen Jezebel had an innocent man, Naboth, smeared and stoned to death so her husband, King Ahab, could steal his vinyard [sic]. You can smear me, as the original Jezebel did, but if you want to physically destroy me, you may find it bit harder. If you have the courage, quote this paragraph in full, and my message below, with the link to the BestSchools interview as my response.

Meanwhile, Ways & Means is getting ugly as heck: "the gentleman who shot off his mouth." They're taking a break to go repeal internet privacy rules.
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 PM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

change.org: Give Spiders All the Help They Need to Eat Every Human on Earth Within One Year

It's reported today by the Washington Post that spiders could eat every human on earth within one year. While we, the undersigned, are certain the spiders are doing the best they can, it's clear that they could use some help. We call on the United States government to utilize whatever resources it deems necessary and effective to help the spiders in their noble cause. We're sending our petition to Sen. Al Franken because he's one of the few people in Washington who we sort of half-trust to not initiate surveillance on us or flag our tax returns for signing such a petition.

Spider/Spider 2020! In our hearts, we know the time has come!

posted by zachlipton at 2:38 PM on March 28, 2017 [41 favorites]

No, Tax Reform Is Not Easier Than Rewriting the Health Law [Tax Policy Center]

This is a really good - and short - overview of the reasons tax reform is going to as hard or harder than ACA repeal.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:39 PM on March 28, 2017 [20 favorites]

Invited by Merkel, Ivanka will attend a summit on women’s empowerment in Berlin next month.

imagine poor Ivanka trying to work the room and build a connection with other influential women, asking one after another of them, "And what does your father do?"'

just trying to relate, you know
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:40 PM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

> I keep picturing Nunes as a clueless teenager who threw a party when his parents were out of town

Ooooh, it's the 2017 remake of Risky Business, only instead of turning his parent's house into a brothel and then trying to cover his tracks, Nunes has helped turn the White House into a traitorous swamp of Russian colluders, and now has to achieve a successful coverup before Schiff can expose his shenanigans to the American public.

I love the scene where Nunes is alone in the WH with his secret intel source, who tells him he wants to make love on a real train.
posted by mosk at 2:40 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

How the FUCK is the CRA not a violation of the Separation of Powers. If Congress doesn't like what the Executive does with the Laws it passes... Pass a different law.

It's never been tested in court! Might end up like the line-item veto passed around the same time and struck down for exactly that reason. I can tell you that Public Citizen, at least, is planning to make that argument as soon as they have a case worth suing over.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:47 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

BREAKING: Democratic National Committee asks all staffers for resignation letters - NBC News
posted by xcasex at 2:48 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

I swear my graduate quantum mechanics courses were less confusing than this shit.
posted by Westringia F. at 2:52 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

BREAKING: Democratic National Committee asks all staffers for resignation letters - NBC News

Is a staff change like this unusual following a lost election?
posted by tobascodagama at 2:55 PM on March 28, 2017

Disapproval of the FCC's privacy rules has passed 215-205, with 13 (I think) Republican defections and 0 Democratic defections.
posted by zachlipton at 2:57 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Spider/Spider 2020! In our hearts, we know the time has come!

Charlotte for Prez and Boris for VP!
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:59 PM on March 28, 2017

Key GOP leaders support funding ACA cost saving reductions, changing their position from earlier lawsuit.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:00 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Woah. Ex-Fox News CFO offered immunity in Roger Ailes investigation

That speaks to the seriousness of this. He presumably would have been aware of payments made to women who accused Ailes of harassment.
posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on March 28, 2017 [22 favorites]

tobascodagama: "Is a staff change like this unusual following a lost election?"

My understanding is this is customary.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:01 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

I suspected as much, but the impulse to post everything as ZOMFGBREAKING is making it hard to tell what's actually unusual any more. (Similar thing with the US Attorney resignations, although the fact that Preet Bahrara was investigating Trump did cross the "please report this breathlessly" threshold once that detail finally came out.)
posted by tobascodagama at 3:04 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Good grief the news is coming fast tonight. NBC: Manafort-Linked Accounts on Cyprus Raised Red Flag

A bank in Cyprus investigated accounts associated with President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, for possible money-laundering, two banking sources with direct knowledge of his businesses here told NBC News.

Manafort — whose ties to a Russian oligarch close to President Vladimir Putin are under scrutiny — was associated with at least 15 bank accounts and 10 companies on Cyprus, dating back to 2007, the sources said. At least one of those companies was used to receive millions of dollars from a billionaire Putin ally, according to court documents.

Banking sources said some transactions on Manafort-associated accounts raised sufficient concern to trigger an internal investigation at a Cypriot bank into potential money laundering activities. After questions were raised, Manafort closed the accounts, the banking sources said.

posted by zachlipton at 3:14 PM on March 28, 2017 [31 favorites]

$80 bucks to planned parenthood this morning courtesy of twitter troll.

Also I followed hella mefites on twitter just now omg prepare yourself for so many gifs 🤓
posted by supercrayon at 3:15 PM on March 28, 2017 [22 favorites]

Preet's firing was newsworthy before that detail came out - he was asked to resign & refused (then fired), plus he had previously been asked by Trump to stay on.

ProPublica: Bharara was one of 46 U.S. attorneys asked to resign after Trump took office. It is not unusual for new presidents to replace federal prosecutors with their own appointees, but Bharara’s firing came as a surprise because the president had met with him at Trump Tower soon after the election. After that meeting, Bharara told reporters Trump asked if he would be prepared to remain in his post, and said that he had agreed to stay on.

posted by cybertaur1 at 3:17 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

"We will never reveal those sources and methods."

Documents: "Legally collected foreign intelligence under FISA," per Nunes
Source: Someone who gave it to him at the White House
Method: Giving it to him at the White House

He will never reveal the information he's already revealed. Never!
posted by compartment at 3:19 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Update: 15 GOP defections on the FCC rule - Amash Brooks-AL Coffman Davidson Duncan-TN Faso Graves-LA Herrera Beutler Jones McClintock Reichert Sanford Stefanik Yoder & Zeldin
posted by zachlipton at 3:24 PM on March 28, 2017 [25 favorites]

Disapproval of the FCC's privacy rules has passed 215-205
i'll be the first to suggest a profit-making package deal: cross-isp browser history of every us elected official. monthly subscription.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:25 PM on March 28, 2017 [17 favorites]

zachlipton: "Update: 15 GOP defections on the FCC rule - Amash Brooks-AL Coffman Davidson Duncan-TN Faso Graves-LA Herrera Beutler Jones McClintock Reichert Sanford Stefanik Yoder & Zeldin"

And ZERO Dem defections, fwiw.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:26 PM on March 28, 2017 [35 favorites]

Justin Amash. I don't agree with him, but I have an increasing level of respect for his principles and guts.
posted by jaduncan at 3:28 PM on March 28, 2017 [15 favorites]

Interestingly, there was one Dem on the board as voting for it, but they changed their vote. Not sure if it was a mistake or an effective whip operation, but it worked.
posted by zachlipton at 3:29 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Wired VPNs Won’t Save You from Congress’ Internet Privacy Giveaway

While VPNs are an important privacy tool, they have limitations. The most obvious: You need to trust your VPN provider not to track you and sell your data itself.

While using a VPN, you might find that you can’t connect to all the sites and services you’re used to using. Netflix, for example, tries to block all VPNs to prevent people from accessing content not licensed in their home countries. Others sites may block particular VPN providers used by malicious hackers or criminals to cover their tracks. It can be hard to tell if you can’t access a particular site because you’ve misconfigured your VPN software, the site is down, or if a company has blocked your VPN provider from accessing a site.

Tor, privacy advocates’ favorite browsing software, tries to anonymize your internet use by routing your traffic through multiple servers around the world. It’s free and, since it’s an open source project tied to no company, at least partially solves the trust problem. But it’s more complex to set up, typically slows down your connection speeds, and malicious Tor servers do exist. Many sites and services also block Tor. Regardless, neither VPNs nor Tor would protect you from software like Carrier IQ that tracks what you do locally.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:34 PM on March 28, 2017 [13 favorites]

You need to trust your VPN provider not to track you and sell your data itself.

this always seemed like the fatal flaw with vpn services to me
posted by entropicamericana at 3:40 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

From zachlipton's NBC link:

-- Last week, the Associated Press reported Manafort was on a $10 million-a-year consulting contract with Deripaska and promised him in a 2005 memo to influence politics and news coverage "to greatly benefit the Putin government."

-- In a paid advertisement in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday, Deripaska disputed the AP report and threatened legal action.

"I want to resolutely deny this malicious assertion and lie," the ad said. "I have never made any commitments or contracts with the obligation or purpose to covertly promote or advance 'Putin's Government' interests anywhere in the world."

That oligarch is Oleg Deripaska who earlier today:

RUSSIAN MANAFORT CLIENT: WILLING TO SPEAK TO CONGRESS

Bet he's changed his mind now.
posted by futz at 3:42 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Just run your own vpn. Nobody is buying web browsing histories from random vps providers, and netflix won't know about it either. It'll cost about $5/month.
posted by ryanrs at 3:45 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Just run your own vpn. Nobody is buying web browsing histories from random vps providers, and netflix won't know about it either.

Top tip: try to stay out of the AWS IP ranges if you are going to want Netflix and Hulu.
posted by jaduncan at 3:47 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

Interesting healthcare take from Josh Marshall:

Perhaps my impression is incomplete because I am only seeing the toplines of the news or maybe that distance is clarifying. But it's remarkable to me how rapidly GOPs have become the owners and even the protectors of Obamacare since the collapse of repeal. Red states are moving to take Medicaid expansion. Anti-Obamacare GOPs are suddenly losing enthusiasm for their various lawsuits meant to cripple Obamacare.

President Trump says he'll wait for Obamacare to collapse and let the Democrats take the blame. Tom Price could still do plenty of things to sabotage Obamacare, at least the exchange markets. But the failure of repeal showed that Republicans are terrified of the kind of coverage losses that sabotage or collapse would entail. And Trump's threat/promise only adds the benefit that he would explicitly take credit for having brought it on. Trump thinks Dems will take the blame but Republicans over recent days shows they don't believe that for a moment.

The other shoe to drop will be from the major insurers. Because the pools have been imperfect, costs have been higher, pushing some insurers out of exchanges. But big insurers have also used the exchanges as a political cudgel, to leverage anti-trust decisions among other things. If the GOP refuses to destroy Obamacare, in practice buying into it, and buying into Medicaid expansion at the state level, that means Obamacare is the default policy. The political debate will be between Obamacare, which of course is a market-based policy originated by Republicans (just with much less redistribution) and single payer. That creates a very different political reality for the insurance industry. I suspect we'll see a growing recognition of that reality in coming months.

posted by Chrysostom at 3:47 PM on March 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

(I have a few US servers, and the AWS one worked for Netflix until it suddenly didn't).
posted by jaduncan at 3:48 PM on March 28, 2017

Can someone point me to a good description of this whole "run your own vpn" thing for web-illiterate types, thanks. Not to clutter up this thread.
posted by emjaybee at 3:49 PM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

Yeah I can't speak to netflix and hulu use since I pirate all my shows, but there are many, many, many cheap places to host your own vpn.
posted by ryanrs at 3:49 PM on March 28, 2017

Trump's business network reached alleged Russian mobsters

Trump told reporters in February: "I have no dealings with Russia. I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away. And I have no loans with Russia. I have no loans with Russia at all."

Yet in 2013, after Trump addressed potential investors in Moscow, he bragged to Real Estate Weekly about his access to Russia's rich and powerful. “I have a great relationship with many Russians, and almost all of the oligarchs were in the room,” Trump said, referring to Russians who made fortunes when former Soviet state enterprises were sold to private investors.

Five years earlier, Trump's son Donald Trump Jr. told Russian media while in Moscow that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets" in places like Dubai and Trump SoHo and elsewhere in New York.
posted by futz at 3:50 PM on March 28, 2017 [9 favorites]

Yep. All of my more random VPSes aren't blocked out. I'd just go on LowEndBox and get something very cheap.
posted by jaduncan at 3:50 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

i'll be the first to suggest a profit-making package deal: cross-isp browser history of every us elected official. monthly subscription.

If Anonymous had the mad skilz they liked to portray themselves as having, the browser history of every congressperson in DC would have been published as soon as that bill was introduced.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:52 PM on March 28, 2017 [20 favorites]

The very most simple way, emjaybe: https://privatepackets.io/

For the record, I'm not affiliated. The $5 a month Digital Ocean box will be more than enough, and you get setup for $3 flat cost.
posted by jaduncan at 3:53 PM on March 28, 2017 [42 favorites]

Re the Massachusetts sheriff who wants the mayor of Boston arrested. Couple of things: Sheriffs here aren't like sheriffs in the rest of the country - they don't run police departments. All they do is run jails for people convicted of misdemeanors (we basically don't have county government anymore). Few people pay much attention to their elections, so you get blowhards sometimes like in Bristol County. One of the people he wants arrested is Joe Curtatone, the mayor of Somerville (one of Boston's inner suburbs), who has a fun little riposte, involving the phrase "jack-booted thug."
posted by adamg at 3:56 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

The hilarious thing is that all the cheap VPNs and a lot of the cheap VPS companies only exist because of the current copyright enforcement regime. The legal risk is small enough that people still pirate, but large enough that they are willing to spend a couple bucks per month for anonymity. It's created this entire market for small cheap servers. It's great.
posted by ryanrs at 3:58 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Namlit: “And again, the picture when Pruzidud Brunp signs his precious anti climate change paperwork shows only dudes standing about. Haplessly grinning, visibly beer-deprived, standing dudes.”

Wait. Why did he invite the Hair Club for Men to the signing? And by surprise, apparently, since none of them are wearing neckties.
posted by ob1quixote at 3:58 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

The $5 a month Digital Ocean box will be more than enough, and you get setup for $3 flat cost.

I checked their FAQ, and they don't make any mention of bandwidth, either in terms of throughout or cost. I'd think there be a difference between the requirement sof someone who is constantly downloading/streaming vs just your average web browsing.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:02 PM on March 28, 2017

By the way, the USA Today article I just linked to isn't the usual fluff piece by them. It's chock full of good info imo.
posted by futz at 4:03 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm starting to think Devin Nunes is brain damaged. Poor chap.

Based on his recent erratic behavior, claims of ninja abilities, and signature of a twelve-year-old, I'm pretty sure we're dealing with a real-life "Big" situation here.
posted by SpaceBass at 4:03 PM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

Disapproval of the FCC's privacy rules has passed 215-205, with 13 (I think) Republican defections and 0 Democratic defections.

Last week not one Republican Senator voted against the resolution. Not Collins. Not Flake. Not Murkowski. Where are these Republican moderates I keep hearing about? They keep voting 100% for Trump right down the line.
posted by JackFlash at 4:08 PM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

Folks, this is a very long thread as usual. Please try to take sidebars like the ISP back-and-forth private or at least elsewhere. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 4:13 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Daily Kos had Manafort, Cyprus bank, Wilbur Ross all linked five days ago. MSM playing catch up again.
posted by adamvasco at 4:14 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Robot that prints and burns Trump's tweets.
posted by Death and Gravity at 4:14 PM on March 28, 2017 [33 favorites]

Based on his recent erratic behavior, claims of ninja abilities, and signature of a twelve-year-old, I'm pretty sure we're dealing with a real-life "Big" situation here.

13 year old Devin: "I want to be Congressman in the worst way!"
posted by leotrotsky at 4:24 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

That robot is hilarious.

I wonder if it should be called Jehudi...or Jehoiachim...
posted by darkstar at 4:27 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Fresno Bee, Nunes' local paper, called him on Saturday "inept and bewildering" and requests a bipartisan select committee to investigate along with a special prosecutor.
posted by zachlipton at 4:50 PM on March 28, 2017 [26 favorites]

Chaffetz: Nunes Is Doing A 'Great Job' And Has 'Full Confidence' Of GOP Conference

-- "Devin Nunes is a man of high integrity," Chaffetz, the chair of the House Oversight Committee, said on MSNBC. "He's done a great job chairing a very difficult committee, has the full confidence of the Republican conference, the Republican leadership and myself and Trey Gowdy and a host of others."

In fact, Rep. Walter Jones (R-NC) on Tuesday became the first Republican lawmaker to call for Nunes to recuse himself from the investigation.

“Absolutely,” Jones told the Hill when asked if Nunes should step down. "How can you be chairman of a major committee and do all these things behind the scenes and keep your credibility? You can’t keep your credibility!"

-- "He said he made a mistake, and then he did apologize for it," Chaffetz said. "But he's moving forward."

Chaffetz is a smarmy fuckhead. They all are. Jesus.
posted by futz at 4:52 PM on March 28, 2017 [21 favorites]

Nunes apologized! He's moving forward! Don't disturb his safe space!
posted by futz at 4:54 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

The first thing I'm going to do once they've finished salting the ground of internet privacy is negotiate to buy the web histories of every Republican member of Congress who voted for that abomination and publish them publicly. It's ok. I'll anonymize the results before I publish just so they don't know who the closeted one is, who is into preggos, and who likes the golden showers.
posted by Talez at 5:07 PM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

I'll anonymize the results before I publish just so they don't know who the closeted one is, who is into preggos, and who likes the golden showers.

Uh, well
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:13 PM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Uh, well

<THATS THE JOKE.JPG>
posted by Talez at 5:15 PM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

Karen Pence is the vice president’s ‘prayer warrior,’ gut check and shield

Over the years, Karen Pence has repeatedly said that one of her “hard and fast rules” is that she never weighs in on or attempts to influence policy.
Pence, through a spokeswoman, declined interview requests for this profile. (Her spokeswoman did, however, say she would be open to participating in a story that focused solely on her art therapy initiatives and other passions).

Friends and aides, meanwhile, say she is the Pence family “prayer warrior,” a woman so inextricably bound to her husband that even then-candidate Trump understood her importance and consulted her in critical campaign moments.

-- “You can’t get a dime between them,” said Ken Blackwell, senior fellow at the Family Research Council and a senior domestic policy adviser on the Trump transition team. “It is not him seeking her approval, but his doing a sort of gut check with what they have learned together and come up through together in terms of their shared Christianity.”

In 1991, Karen Pence, then an elementary school teacher, penned a letter to the editor in the Indianapolis Star, complaining that the paper’s “Children’s Express” section had featured an article that “encourages children to think they’re gay or lesbian if they have a close relationship with a child of the same sex” or admire a teacher of the same gender.

“I only pray that most parents were able to intercept your article before their children were encouraged to call the Gay/Lesbian Youth Hotline, which encourages them to ‘accept their homosexuality’ instead of reassuring them that they are not,” she wrote.

They sound Reagan-esque.
posted by futz at 5:23 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

Hey, there is a Ask thread on VPNs here I think the VPN discussion is important and relevant. It would better in the Ask because the thread is only 13 comments long and the info is going to be sought by many due to the ISPs now unleashed on the public.
posted by jadepearl at 5:23 PM on March 28, 2017 [25 favorites]

Isn't amazing how rational, and sometimes even liberal, former republican representatives often are...

I have a small glimmer of hope that the Senate Intel hearings will be better than the House hearings knowing that the chair, Richard Burr, said he's planning on not running for re-election after this term.

How about asking the Senate to make Nunes testify at the their hearings?
posted by p3t3 at 5:25 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

White House Easter Eggs have been released, with the addition of a gold one to the usual pastels. The gold one costs an extra $6. Please also enjoy the President and First Lady's signatures.
posted by zachlipton at 5:27 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Pence father/mother thing reminds me of the couple from The People Under the Stairs

Whenever Everett McGill was wearing the gimp suit I kept expecting him to go "Hmm, Shai-Hulud"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:28 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is just my very humble opinion, but Nunes is no different than Spicer or anyone else in collaboration with this menagerie of tainted losers.

They're minions tasked with treading water and can barely stay afloat. They are all drowning in the bullshit. They, all of them, need to be taken to task in a very forceful and immediate manor.

It is very much like high school when a handful of jocks run amuck and torture freshmen. Where is the fucking good coach who will kick their dirty little asses and strip them of their varsity letters and send them to the bench or in this case prison.

The things being perpetrated are very literally TREASON.

JFC!
posted by snsranch at 5:31 PM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

White House Easter Eggs have been released, with the addition of a gold one to the usual pastels.

donnie inspects the gutted chicken, his frustration becoming more apparent by the minute

"so ... where's the gold come from?"
posted by pyramid termite at 5:32 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

Auntie Maxine is on Chris Hayes rn.

is it just me or is it a little paternalistic that a congresswoman with over twenty years of of service gets called "auntie maxine"? i get that it's affectionate but… it hits me as subtly racist.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:39 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Maxine is taking us all to church tonight, yas queen yassss

"I am a strong black woman, and I can not be intimidated, I cannot be undermined, I cannot be thought to be afraid of Bill O'Reilly or anyone. And let me say to women out there everywhere: don't allow these right-wing talking heads, these dishonorable people to intimidate you, or scare you. Be who you are. Do what you do. And let us get on with discussing the real issues of this country."

Slay mama.
posted by supercrayon at 5:45 PM on March 28, 2017 [67 favorites]

Nunes is no different than Spicer

I dunno, Spicer's in over his head like the rest of the administration, but he's got some skills. "Trump never said that! *You* said that! Hey, what's that behind you? Now look at my pocketwatch, gently swaying back and forth. You hear nothing but the sound of my voice, not the carefully researched lies put out by your own failing media company."

Whereas Nunes is more like "I love.....lamp?"
posted by uosuaq at 5:45 PM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

no, not just you - "auntie" or "aunt" and "uncle" date way back to slave days and need to be used very carefully in an african american context - ok, if an actual aunt or uncle - probably ok if used lightly by african americans - really not ok for white people to come up with on their own
posted by pyramid termite at 5:46 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

He said he made a mistake, and then he did apologize for it," Chaffetz said. "But he's moving forward."

Bygones!
posted by srboisvert at 5:47 PM on March 28, 2017

I had thought Waters came up with that nickname herself, but I could be mistaken, I didn't see anything from a quick look.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:48 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

I know what you guys mean, I think white people need to be careful with that "Auntie" thing. To be safe I just refer to Rep Waters as QUEEN because it's accurate.
posted by supercrayon at 5:49 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Anecdote from my deeply loyal, conservative father (never liked Trump, more an Egg man, for what that's worth), on our more or less weekly 'politics come up' phone call (I manage my input carefully), when I started carefully into how Trump's actions are reflected by silence or agreement by the broader GOP, he reacted with earnest frustration and anger, not at me, but with me, for really maybe the first time ever, at the republican party, and specifically at Thune, an SD senator, for not speaking out against the incoherent new administration.

He was very much a "lets see how it goes' kind of guy, and has turned into 'This cannot work' kind of guy in a couple months, which give me hope for at least some of the low-info voters like him. They do notice when people can't do their jobs, even if they don't necessarily understand what those jobs entail.

This is my note of hope I guess. Daddy is getting woke, Momma is already part of the rural insurgency, and perhaps this is more common than we think. 2018 comes up soon. Press hard, and don't stop pressing. We have a war to win.
posted by neonrev at 5:50 PM on March 28, 2017 [55 favorites]

Point taken about the complicated baggage of "aunt" in African American culture and history, but Waters is in on it in this particular instance:

Congresswoman Maxine Waters pledges to be an Auntie for millennials in need
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:50 PM on March 28, 2017 [22 favorites]

The disrespect shown to April Ryan and Maxine Waters did not go unnoticed by HRC.
posted by Surely This at 5:51 PM on March 28, 2017 [45 favorites]

Queen is problematic as well and has its own issues/controversy.
posted by futz at 5:58 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Surely This: The disrespect shown to April Ryan and Maxine Waters did not go unnoticed by HRC .

She's wearing a leather jacket in that clip. Any Buffy fan knows this means she's got her mojo back, big time, and isn't holding back any more. "A tussle... is good for the soul."

HRC is totally ready to throw down against the First Evil.
posted by Superplin at 6:01 PM on March 28, 2017 [40 favorites]

If we're going to call her Auntie, should it at least be "Rep. 'Auntie' Maxine Waters" or "the Honorable 'Auntie' Maxine Waters?"
posted by zachlipton at 6:02 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

is it just me or is it a little paternalistic

on the one hand yes, and I wouldn't say it myself although she does appear not to mind. but on the other hand I do like to see a woman finally getting treated with the weird and very sudden absolute total old-person worship that kindly old Uncle Joe Biden got for so many years and still does. Her recent public image is like his in many ways and this kind of folksy familiar adoration smooths over a whole lot of bonkers things that both of them have said and done at times because they are just so darn likeable. I wouldn't feel the same way about it if the 'old person giving you a talking-to that you can't help loving anyway' shtick hadn't been monopolized by male politicians since always. but since it has been, I am happy to see a woman being the one to get the pass for saying whatever she wants in public because we love her and she's on our side. for however long it lasts.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:03 PM on March 28, 2017 [19 favorites]

She's wearing a leather jacket in that clip.

Ha, I noticed that. Didn't make the Buffy link though. I like it!
posted by Surely This at 6:04 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

Here's a transcript of Surely This's link to Hillary Clinton's comments on how April Ryan and Representative Waters were treated:

Where everyday sexism and structural barriers were once blatant, today they are sometimes harder to spot. But make no mistake, they are still with us. Just look at all what's happen in the past few days to women who were just doing their jobs. April Ryan, a journalist with unrivaled integrity, was doing her job just this afternoon in the White House press room, when she was patronized and cut off, [while] just trying to ask a question. One of your own California Congresswomen, Maxine Waters, was taunted with a racist joke about her hair. Now too many women, especially women of color, have had a lifetime of practice taking precisely these kinds of indignities in stride. But why should we have to? And any woman who thinks this couldn't be directed at her is living in a dream world.

America--you done fucked up bad. We could have had this woman leading us--instead we got this shitty authoritarian kleptocracy. I so hope I can some day meet Secretary Clinton--she is my heart's 45.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 6:06 PM on March 28, 2017 [92 favorites]

No make up, leather jacket, righteous fury HRC is all that I aspire to be. Fuck, that was a kick in the pants tonight. We missed you, sister.
posted by lydhre at 6:09 PM on March 28, 2017 [28 favorites]

HRC is totally ready to throw down against the First Evil.

And instead of an army of proto-vamps, she's up against an army of woman-hating, shitty-accent Calebs.

It's all fun and games until ~~Spicer~~ someone loses an eye.
posted by Salieri at 6:13 PM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

as if we were running out of reminders of what we're fighting against, the trump admin wants to stop collecting gender identity and sexual orientation data in the next census. [Out Magazine]
posted by murphy slaw at 6:16 PM on March 28, 2017 [9 favorites]

Nate Cohn with GA-06 update:

For what it's worth, day 2 of in-person early voting in GA-6 is D 55, R 32. Over all, including abs, it's D 55, R 31, with 3372 votes cast

It's a special election, so there are very few people who are "sure" to vote. Won't really know until it's over

posted by Chrysostom at 6:18 PM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

Rick Wilson is apparently my spirit animal: The fact of the matter is when they’re confronted with criminal malfeasance, and things that at the very minimum border on collusion with the enemy, they’re not going to do shit,” Wilson says of Republicans in Congress. “Donald Trump could murder a child on the White House lawn and eat him raw and those pussies in Congress will never do a thing.”
posted by leotrotsky at 6:23 PM on March 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

Sitting and waiting on stand by at PHL and CNN is blaring some "Breaking news" about Donnie saying he'll work with Democrats for new healthcare bill and it will be "easy"??? What the hell happened while I was in the air?

Nothing. In fact, Trump made this exact claim within hours, if not minutes, of Ryan's announcement that he was pulling the AHCA.

File under "if everything is breaking news, then nothing is".
posted by tobascodagama at 6:26 PM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

Also about Rep. Waters, upthread zachlipton linked another R. Eric Thomas Elle article that interviewed her, in which she said, "What [your] pieces did was to describe me in ways that I think a lot of the millennials understand or can identify with. I'm like Aunt Maxine, that Aunt who comes to your house and looks around, and says something like this, "Well why haven't you done this? Why don't you take care of that?"

That's specifically the "Aunt Maxine" I was alluding to in my comment earlier about her tongue-lashing the assembled sheepish men -- the daunting person who does not let you get away with shit.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:33 PM on March 28, 2017 [9 favorites]

The NCAA reportedly imposed a 48-hour ultimatum on North Carolina to repeal its 'bathroom law'

-- The NCAA has imposed a 48-hour deadline on North Carolina to repeal its controversial "bathroom law,"a local sports event planner said on Tuesday.

If lawmakers don't repeal the law, known as HB2, the NCAA will reject the state's more than 100 bids to host championship college sports events over the next five years.

-- "I have confirmed with a contact very close to the NCAA that its deadline for HB2 is 48 hours from now," Dupree said in the statement, according to local news reports.

"If HB2 has not been resolved by that time, the NCAA will have no choice but to move forward without the North Carolina bids. The NCAA has already delayed the bid review process once and has waited as long as it possibly can, and now it must finalize all championship site selections through spring of 2022."

Sports entities are really stepping up.
posted by futz at 6:39 PM on March 28, 2017 [79 favorites]

This is just my very humble opinion, but Nunes is no different than Spicer or anyone else in collaboration with this menagerie of tainted losers....

The things being perpetrated are very literally TREASON.

You just identified the big goddamn difference. There is absolutely no reason to believe Spicer and Conway are anything more than hired guns. They're ridiculously mendacious, but their mendacity doesn't seem to be concealing their personal activities or allegiences. Pretty much everything there is to know about Kellyanne Conway or Sean Spicer can be readily observed by watching what they overtly do.

With Nunes, Sessions, Bannon, Manafort, Page, Flynn, Trump himself, and probably a shitload of others who are less obvious, there are already a lot of question marks as to what their game is, what they specifically have done that they're so anxious to conceal, and who it is that owns them.

Put another way: Spicer lies for the administration. That's all he does, as far as we can tell. That is shameful and disgusting but probably not criminal. Nunes could be crazy deep in sketchy shit because something other than compulsive lying is making him squirrelly. I am far less confident that Nunes is not guilty of a crime than I am that Spicer isn't.
posted by jackbishop at 6:40 PM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm picturing HRC standing in an alley, lounging against a building as she strikes a match--right there on the bricks--for a post-tussle cigarette, which she savors over the corpse of the GOP she's just slain.

Oh god now I want a Tumblr. Like Hamilton in Sunnydale, but HRC on the Hellmouth.
posted by Superplin at 6:42 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

I posted a link about this 4 days ago but the timeline is now 2 days. Clock is ticking.
posted by futz at 6:44 PM on March 28, 2017

Sports entities are really stepping up.

just had a vision of a 50 foot Basketball Elemental stomping its way through the NC state house
posted by murphy slaw at 6:48 PM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

Do we have any estimates of just how much American media ownership is in foreign hands these days? Not to be conspiratorial, but the right obviously went all out to get a handle on NPR. What about the big private companies? I remember ownership consolidation being a big concern for a lot of us a few years ago. The headlines come down from the higher levels of mgmt with most outlets, don't they?
posted by saulgoodman at 6:51 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Fucking tonight:

Trump tells lawmakers he expects deal 'very quickly' on healthcare

"I have no doubt that that's going to happen very quickly," Trump said at a bipartisan reception held for senators and their spouses at the White House.

"I think it's going to happen because we've all been promising - Democrat, Republican - we've all been promising that to the American people," he said.

He's pathological.
posted by futz at 6:53 PM on March 28, 2017 [9 favorites]

Queen is problematic as well and has its own issues/controversy.

oh FFS! leave freddie alone, he's dead already.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:53 PM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Superplin, for now, here's an approximation of your tough Hillary fantasy.
posted by NorthernLite at 6:54 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

on the lighter side, here is a robot that prints out trump tweets, sets them on fire, and posts a video of the conflagration as a reply
posted by murphy slaw at 6:55 PM on March 28, 2017 [35 favorites]

Whoever built that is the hero we need.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:56 PM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

Yeah, just saw that clip and Hillary came out of the woods as No Fucks Given Hillary!
posted by TwoWordReview at 6:59 PM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

Sports entities are really stepping up.

Sports leagues and the military have all already done integration nobody thought was possible, and now they aren't afraid of doing it again if necessary. Conflict isn't dainty, and fandom thrives on diversity. There is nothing sacred about separate bathrooms for the sexes. The whole problem is solved with privacy stalls around all the commodes. The NFL have been letting female reporters into the locker rooms for years now. It is actually possible for people who might be sexually attracted to one another to be in a naked situation without losing their shit, if they understand that's expected. You expect it, and people just get used to it and move on.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:07 PM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

I missed this from the WaPo article on Karen Pence.

In 2002, Mike Pence told the Hill that he never eats alone with a woman other than his wife and that he won’t attend events featuring alcohol without her by his side, either.

Apparently he is unable to control himself? Sounds like Mikey may have cheated in the past?
posted by futz at 7:11 PM on March 28, 2017 [17 favorites]

that sounds like fairly standard "men can't control themselves, so women are responsible for policing men's sexuality" thinking typical of the evangelical churches that spawned Pence?
posted by murphy slaw at 7:17 PM on March 28, 2017 [44 favorites]

Apparently he is unable to control himself? Sounds like Mikey may have cheated in the past?

That or they are crazy people.

TBH that's not the direction I'd expect infidelity to come from for a Republican with a conversion therapy obsession.
posted by Artw at 7:21 PM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

on the lighter side,

I see what you did there
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:32 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

White House staff to skip correspondents' dinner.

Still have my fingers crossed for a Baldwin cameo.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:33 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

HRC is totally ready to throw down against the First Evil.

Is she? Do you think she, or Barack really care any more?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:41 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

In 2002, Mike Pence told the Hill that he never eats alone with a woman other than his wife and that he won’t attend events featuring alcohol without her by his side, either.
...
that sounds like fairly standard "men can't control themselves, so women are responsible for policing men's sexuality" thinking typical of the evangelical churches that spawned Pence?

I don't see how the part I bolded comes from Pence not doing these things. It doesn't appear that he's restricting women from attending events alone with him, just that he doesn't. Hell, I give him some amount of credit for not inflicting himself on people for more or less any reason.
posted by Etrigan at 7:44 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think it's pretty obvious Hillary and Barack still care.
posted by asteria at 7:48 PM on March 28, 2017 [36 favorites]

As Trump Flaunts Ford’s $1.2B Investment, Ford Says It Was Planned in 2015

Ford will invest $1.2 billion in three Michigan facilities, a move signaled overnight through a tweet from President Donald Trump — though Ford had originally planned to make the official announcement itself ahead of a Tuesday meeting with Michigan officials.

So tЯump takes undeserved credit and steals Ford's thunder? Class act as usual.
posted by futz at 7:51 PM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

"Never eats alone with a woman not his wife" puts a burden on any female staff he has. If one of them needs to meet one-on-one, they can't do it during a mealtime.
posted by nat at 7:52 PM on March 28, 2017 [20 favorites]

Karen Pence has given herself over to a dreadful Ones-Who-Walk-Away-From-Omelas-style bargain, wherein she drinks alone with Mike Pence so that no other woman on earth ever has to, or may ever be asked to. it's a dark covenant that was made between the powers of the earth and the powers of the other place, and they will keep their vows as long as she keeps hers.

it has corrupted and twisted her spirit but it would do the same to anyone. that is the price. at dinnertime. every lone woman looks to the empty place set for Mike Pence, and shudders with the thought of what might have been before lifting her glass in false cheer. but to the young ones, the ones to whom "Karen Pence" is just a name and not a warning that tolls like a bell down the corridor of their memories, there is nothing to fear in the empty chair. nothing at all.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:53 PM on March 28, 2017 [82 favorites]

In re Mike Pence and being accompanied by his wife: Not that I would normally ever speak up for ol' Dumb As A Pence Fost, but I happen to have a left-leaning Indiana relative of about Pence's generation who grew up in a fairly religious home, and he's said the same thing about not spending social time alone with [age appropriate, understood as "more or less his own age"] women other than his wife. Now, I would gnaw off a forearm if this relative had ever cheated or even seriously considered cheating - that, like smoking marijuana, getting drunk or whooping and hollering generally, is something that only immature, unserious people with bad values would even for a moment consider. But it was a behavior stricture that he picked up growing up in a religious home in Indiana about the same time as Pence.

As far as I can tell, the logic is not "men are boiling wells of lust" so much as "the way that you make sure you don't fall into sin is to structure your life so that opportunities for sin don't occur". The Devil is tricksy - you might think that you would never even look at another woman, but what if you had a moment of weakness? What if you were around a woman who had a moment of weakness right when you had a moment of weakness? It's not really about the idea that you have to be super careful every moment of every day to avoid the sin that constantly surrounds you; the idea is more that if you put yourself in the way of cheating, you might eventually be tempted to cheat.

I'm not saying that this is a productive way to think - it's certainly not how I lead my life. But it's not inexplicable or totally tied to a right-wing view of the world.

And before you totally, totally dismiss this one, ask yourself if you've ever either made or been tempted to make a bad decision when alone with an attractive person who is also attracted to you. Someone I was pretty darn attracted to once put the make on me when I was younger, and I remember the very moment that I tried to kid myself that they probably had an open relationship. Now, I was sober as a judge and I stopped things right there, but I was tempted, let me tell you, and it would have been a friend-group shattering, life-upending disaster had I not. I myself don't respond to that kind of situation by saying "guess I'll never be alone with attractive people", but I would be a lying liar who lies if I said that being alone with attractive people who are attracted to me could never, ever lead to bad decisions.
posted by Frowner at 7:54 PM on March 28, 2017 [46 favorites]

White House staff to skip correspondents' dinner.

I think it's possible the ACLU Telethon this Friday will have sharper commentary
posted by rhizome at 7:55 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Felony charges for 2 who secretly filmed Planned Parenthood
posted by adamg at 8:02 PM on March 28, 2017 [34 favorites]

Well, if Pence is that cautious, he should probably avoid putting himself in positions of power, where his actions might harm other people.
posted by valkane at 8:03 PM on March 28, 2017 [36 favorites]

> Auntie Maxine is on Chris Hayes rn.

Video (MSNBC)
posted by christopherious at 8:03 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Someone should tell him that every day he's a part of the Trump admin he fucks millions of women who aren't "mother". Maybe he'll resign!
posted by asteria at 8:05 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

any female staff he has

LOL
posted by stopgap at 8:13 PM on March 28, 2017 [34 favorites]

"Never eats alone with a woman not his wife" puts a burden on any female staff he has. If one of them needs to meet one-on-one, they can't do it during a mealtime.

this is true and it is the mirror image of powerful men meeting in strip clubs, designed for men to bond and women to be excluded. so as a social standard it disgusts me, and it is never an innocent thing to support as a goofy midwestern tradition as it provides an excuse for excluding women from any important role other than "your wife."

but like

if I were an Indiana Republican staffer and hadn't given up every hope for a bit of happiness just on that basis alone, I would trade maybe a kidney, definitely an appendix, just so I never had to be alone with mister pence in any circumstances. I don't even get a violent sex creep vibe off of him, it's more the way he looks like someone took one of those kneadable grey art erasers and just gently...smudged all his features a bit so no one would be too alarmed by seeing him too sharply. there is no more primal fear than the fear of coming to mike pence's alert attention with no one there to save you, or to die in your place.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:16 PM on March 28, 2017 [27 favorites]

Structuring your life to manage compulsions and other mental health issues is crucial for a lot of people dealing with trauma. Let's not politicize mandatory uniformity of personal values and lifestyle choices please. That seems more right wing than liberal to me.
posted by saulgoodman at 8:21 PM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

As far as I can tell, the logic is not "men are boiling wells of lust" so much as "the way that you make sure you don't fall into sin is to structure your life so that opportunities for sin don't occur".

Yes, I know where Pence is coming from and I'm a bit conflicted about it. I see it as a form of communal policing: if mixed-gender secluding or socialising is something that only naughty people do, then when it occurs it should alert people that something's wrong. If the attractive-but-misunderstood professor is expected to keep his (her) door open when meeting an attractive student, it's going to seem weird when he (she) closes the door. I don't know how many stories I've heard that start with some small transgression of boundaries and end with a ruined career.

The flip side of this is that it's almost always confined to potential mixed-sex transgression. This isn't just nominally hetereosexist; it has real consequences for people's ability to socialise and network. If the professor only goes out drinking with male (female) students, then the female (male) students lose an important chance to interact with their professor out of hours. If male (female) students get to split a room when visiting conferences with their professor, female (male) students will have to pay twice as much ... and they may lose invitations, because now the professor has to pay more too. It's a problem.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:22 PM on March 28, 2017 [15 favorites]

Worst possible reboot of "The Ice Storm."
posted by rhizome at 8:29 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump adviser to testify about smearing ‘pervert’ political rival

Stone, the self-anointed “dirty trickster” behind Trump’s rise, ran the Manhattan madam Kirstin Davis’ failed 2010 gubernatorial campaign.

He told an Albany newspaper that he urged a group called “People for a Safer New York” to send a controversial flier calling Libertarian candidate Warren Redlich a “predator.”

The mailer, which printed Redlich’s photo and home address, directed readers to call the police if they saw him.

“This man, Warren Redlich,…defends sex with children,” it reads. The mailer also calls him a “sick twisted pervert.”
posted by futz at 8:34 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

If the attractive-but-misunderstood professor is expected to keep his (her) door open when meeting an attractive student,

They're not. They're expected to keep the door cracked open when meeting with a student privately, period. At least that was the norm when I was in college and if that has changed so that you can gauge your attractiveness to professors by whether they close their doors all the way or not, I am sorry to hear it. Written rule or just social convention, it doesn't matter the gender of the student, the gender of the professor, or the attractiveness of either.

As to misunderstood -- no professor who deserves a good reputation puts it in terms of defending his reputation or career, though plenty of others do. it's to protect the students. That it also protects the professor is incidental. That is the social warning sign we know to look out for: when a powerful person thinks that going through the motions of propriety is to protect himself and establish a public defense for his behavior, rather than to protect the vulnerable. and thus I implicitly bring it back around to Mike Pence at the end.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:34 PM on March 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

(Would you really, really want to split a room with your advisor? That gives me all kinds of anxiety attacks. Another student or nothing, kthx.)

Again, a lot of this stuff is cultural - my left-leaning Indiana relative comes from a background where you don't socialize at the bar. (Drinking? Serious people don't drink!) I bet Pence doesn't socialize at the bar. There's a big difference between "all relationships outside the family are pretty formal and conducted on lines of propriety, so therefore I don't socialize with the gender I'm attracted to" and "I go out drinking with men but not women because I don't want to risk putting the moves on women - it's totally okay to booze it up with men, too bad for women who want to network".

I guess what I'm saying is that a lot of the social weirdness of Pence doesn't seem that weird to me - it's just religious in an Indiana kind of way.

Pence may turn out to be a big fornicating hypocrite, it's true - but it wouldn't surprise me if he were perfectly sincere. I think mefites tend to assume that right wing Christians are just covering up for their lying, cheating, boozing ways with a lot of fancy talk, but in my experience of Indiana, it's just as likely that people just...don't do a lot of the stuff that mefites do. If I were to say "oh, I totally disapprove of dancing and hanging around with attractive people late at night in smokey bars, that's awful", I would be a big hypocrite about something I actually like and do; but I've known a reasonable number of small town religious folks who disapprove of boozing and dancing, etc, etc, and genuinely don't sneak out to booze and dance.
posted by Frowner at 8:35 PM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Jesus Christ, colleagues have meal-meetings together or travel for business all the time, and the attitude that it's somehow inherently "improper" or "tempting" or sexually charged simply because one of them is a woman is outrageously offensive. I've been subjected to that bullshit at various times in my professional life, and it would be swell if these guys could get over their juvenile discomfort and allow me to do my job without being treated like I'm freaking Delilah or whatever.

God, I had to go on a 3-day business trip with a male colleague back in the 80s specifically so that he could train me how to supervise quarterly regional inventories (which one normally did alone thereafter), and the guy was oddly tense at times during the trip. A couple of months later after he had moved on to another job, a different coworker mentioned that the first guy had been terrified that despite our barely knowing each other, I was going to put the moves on him or something because "that's what single women do on business trips."
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:45 PM on March 28, 2017 [52 favorites]

Pence may turn out to be a big fornicating hypocrite, it's true - but it wouldn't surprise me if he were perfectly sincere. I think mefites tend to assume that right wing Christians are just covering up for their lying, cheating, boozing ways with a lot of fancy talk, but in my experience of Indiana, it's just as likely that people just...don't do a lot of the stuff that mefites do.

You are generalizing a whole state based upon a relative that you know. Pence is his own beast and yes there are others like him but he is a minority in Indiana. I have *never* met that flavor of person in Indiana (especially a left leaning one) which I know is just another singular data point.
posted by futz at 8:46 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

The alternative to Pence's world is one where friends and colleagues congregate as they wish, rely on self-control for those incredibly rare moments when two otherwise-committed people feel mutually attracted, and worse comes to worst, occasionally have affairs. That seems like a far, far better world than one structured to never allow all those myriad interactions in the first place, on the off chance than one in a thousand will lead to something unfortunate. This seems like an essential difference between liberal and conservative values, and is far more than just an "Indiana" thing, as all the patriarchal societies that prefer the rule-based approach to self-control so voluminously illustrate. Pence can indeed be generalized: not to Indiana, but to patriarchs everywhere who abuse women, the under-privileged, their own children, and virtually everyone else on a daily basis, in private and in public. There may be reasonable, open-minded folks who prefer to structure their environment rather than rely on self-control -- and who refer to their wife as "mother" for that matter -- but Pence is not an example of those people.
posted by chortly at 8:52 PM on March 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

The manhattan madam may have named her child after me. I've had nowhere relevant to post that before now. Thank you for this thread.
posted by Brainy at 8:59 PM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

If so, s/he was damn lucky you weren't named Dopey.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:05 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Without his wife, Pence might get all hopped up on taco salad and make a pass at someone
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:13 PM on March 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

Wait. No. You can't drop a bombshell like and not explain. Come on, spill. Edit to add, re, Brainy and the Madames Babe.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:14 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

President Trump won’t play ball on opening day

You have to see the pictures and the videos, the Carter one especially.
posted by rhizome at 9:14 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Given Pence's homophobia you'd think he'd have a policy of never eating or drinking alone with young men.
posted by Ber at 9:16 PM on March 28, 2017 [22 favorites]

Felony charges for 2 who secretly filmed Planned Parenthood

On the one hand, couldn't happen to nicer people. On the other hand I think two-party consent laws are mostly used to screw people and think one party consent should be universal. So I am ambivalent. It's like when a terrible person gets busted for possession. Sure, they're terrible but it's a bad law.
posted by Justinian at 9:21 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

She's wearing a leather jacket in that clip. Any Buffy fan knows this means she's got her mojo back, big time, and isn't holding back any more. "A tussle... is good for the soul."

HRC is totally ready to throw down against the First Evil.
posted by Superplin at 6:01 PM on March 28 [20 favorites +] [!]

Please, God, No. Divisive for the Left and Center and Polarizing for the Right. HRC is the last thing we need now. Seriously.
posted by W Grant at 9:28 PM on March 28, 2017 [18 favorites]

Folks, this is ranging really far afield into comparative morality; can we bring it back to the topic, please? Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 9:50 PM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

They sound Reagan-esque.

You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:06 PM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

No make up, leather jacket, righteous fury HRC is all that I aspire to be.

I'm not sure how I feel about that look. Imma go with tingly.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:15 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Clinton's just trying to remind us that we live in the cyberpunk future.
posted by Yowser at 10:23 PM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Roskam rejects bid to revive failed GOP Obamacare repeal bill

Roskam argued that Republicans should instead write an “aspirational bill” that incorporates everything the GOP has sought to do on health care— regardless of what the Senate can pass. That way, he said, members wouldn’t have to defend taking a vote on what many viewed as a mediocre bill. It would also force the public's attention onto the Senate instead of the House, Roskam said.

After the bill failed in the Senate, Roskam said GOP leaders could then work backwards to winnow down what’s possible instead of starting with a product no one is excited about.

Roskam's office did not return a call for comment.

The article is a perfect example of Repub fuckery. Seriously. This is the Republican Brain.
posted by futz at 10:42 PM on March 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

It would be a great win, a huge win! They should totally do this! Make a bill saying that all healthcare subsidies are abolished, that Medicare gets stripped, that taxes on the wealthy are cut. Call it something like "You Knew We Were Republicans When You Elected Us Bill."
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:53 PM on March 28, 2017 [13 favorites]

Call it something like "You Knew We Were Republicans When You Elected Us Bill."

the worst Taylor Swift cover
posted by en forme de poire at 11:04 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

Please, God, No. Divisive for the Left and Center and Polarizing for the Right. HRC is the last thing we need now. Seriously.

At first, the only thing I heard from the left was "Bernie is out and center -- where is HRC?"

And now, you object because she's visible.

I think the left may demonize the center because you just aren't comfortable with our existence.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 11:19 PM on March 28, 2017 [49 favorites]

Buzfeed: "60 Minutes" Interview Shows How Unprepared The Mainstream Media Is For Pro-Trump Media. How Cernovich trolled Scott Pelley and Liz Spayd because mainstream institutions don't understand "the MAGA media fever swamp" and keep getting played. The main advice: "Know your enemy and stop giving them ammunition."
posted by zachlipton at 11:33 PM on March 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

I think the left is a broad spread of opinions that include both pro-Hillary and anti-Hillary elements. She's divisive, mainly for reasons that are outside her control. It made me happy to see her, but I don't speak for "the left" and I'm pretty sure W Grant doesn't either.
posted by gofargogo at 11:35 PM on March 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

On a related derail, Matt Yglesias had a series of tweets a while back noting that socialism seems to often get abstracted in the U.S. as “wealth redistribution”, but that that’s hardly the brunt of it. I believe he pointed to the example of how workers got guaranteed seats on French corporate boards and suggested that most American companies would gladly take massive tax increases in order to avoid such an eventuality. It was one of those moments that reminded me I’m probably nowhere near as left as many folks, but that thanks to being in this country that isn’t an issue I really have to interrogate very much. Seems like a good subject for a post, if someone was interested in making it…
posted by Going To Maine at 11:37 PM on March 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

“Know your enemy and stop giving them ammunition.”

That feels like the sort of generally helpful advice that doesn’t feel very actionable when in an interview. Which, if you want to avoid interviewing Cernovich, that’s entirely fine by me, but I’m not sure that that was the intent, exactly.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:40 PM on March 28, 2017

I think the broader point is that institutions like 60 Minutes and the New York Times aren't up to the task of dealing with someone like Cernovich. It's not so much advice for during the interview as the need to fully and completely understand who you're dealing with, that this is not a person operating in good faith, before you give him a shred of attention. This question sounds really stupid, but I'm not convinced that it's as stupid as it sounds: can someone who hasn't really immersed themselves in the swamp of right-wing meme culture really understand how these people operate well enough to do a decent interview? Given the extent to which people keep getting played, I think the answer may well be no.

Still, avoiding all contact with Cernovich really does seem like the easiest policy for everyone.
posted by zachlipton at 11:52 PM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Are there any fucking adults left in the Republican party? Reading these threads and reading further afield it seems like the entire Republican party has become some weird, updated version of Lord of the Flies.
Yes, tax cuts for the wealthy and stripping regulations as per usual, but the utter destructive idiocy and vandalistic impulse is actually quite stunning, in a horrifying way.
I'm Canadian and at the moment can't think of any western democracy in the post war era that has faced something quite like this. It's truly appalling.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 12:05 AM on March 29, 2017 [22 favorites]

White House staff to skip correspondents' dinner.

I think they're scared of what might happen if they eat alone in a room with attractive ideas without their abusive partner being there.
posted by Devonian at 12:28 AM on March 29, 2017 [36 favorites]

Jeez.

Trump’s preparedness was roughly that of a fourth grader. He began the conversation by telling Merkel that Germany owes the United States hundreds of billions of dollars for defending it through NATO, and concluded by saying, “You are terrific” but still owe all that dough. Little else concerned him.

Trump knew nothing of the proposed European-American deal known as the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, little about Russian aggression in Ukraine or the Minsk agreements, and was so scatterbrained that German officials concluded that the president’s daughter Ivanka, who had no formal reason to be there, was the more prepared and helpful.

Several short thoughts:

1. That is what I hate most about Trump - he is not only uninformed, but also completely uninterested in learning even the most basic required knowledge.

2. I'm really sorry, but that is currently the face you Americans are presenting to the world and by which you will be judged; and I can tell you as a German that it won't be easy to convince people you are not all 100% behind your leader and on board with every single one of his policies.

3. Why, oh why did anyone think it was a good idea to leave politics to a completely politically uneducated person? "Our top brain surgeons tried their best and failed, there is no way we can save the patient!" "Unless... let's get Bobo, The Juggling Chimpanzee in there, see how he does!"
posted by PontifexPrimus at 12:34 AM on March 29, 2017 [87 favorites]

I can tell you as a German that it won't be easy to convince people you are not all 100% behind your leader and on board with every single one of his policies.

Do you not have televisions? Is coverage of US protest marches prohibited in the German press?
posted by tractorfeed at 1:17 AM on March 29, 2017 [41 favorites]

Trump is, regardless of the mood in the US, the face of America. Orange, weirdly-haired and all. And all the shit he spouts is what gets transmitted. Doesn't matter what the opposition says, Trump's voice carries the farthest.

Sure, press about the resistance is out there, but Trump is the one who met with Merkel.

(It's a fucking burden having every conversation, every mention of the US become an inquiry into, "why did you _all_ vote for him then?" Go ahead, explain the Electoral College for the hundredth time, try to explain that almost 3million voted against then sputter when you get back to the point that, "but still, he's now your President.")
posted by From Bklyn at 1:34 AM on March 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

@tractorfeed: I was going more for the historic context there. There is plenty of material showing that not every German in the 1930s was a fervent Nazi, but that did not keep the rest of the world from judging a whole nation by the actions of a deranged leadership and their fanatic followers.

Not to minimize the evil that was done back then, but I guess for the average German things were not different under Hitler at first, just as they are not now under Trump for the average (white, straight, male) American.
posted by PontifexPrimus at 1:38 AM on March 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

As someone said up above it's John Carpenter's The Thing: it's a foothold situation. It makes perfect sense to me if everyone else in the world regards every facet of the United States as suspect until proven redeemed, if ever.
posted by XMLicious at 2:10 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

House panel’s Russia probe effectively put on hold

Late last week, Nunes (R-Calif.) canceled an open hearing scheduled for Tuesday that would have featured testimony from former director of national intelligence James R. Clapper Jr., former CIA director John Brennan, and former acting attorney general Sally Yates. He did so, he said, “in order to make time available” for Comey and National Security Agency Director Mike Rogers to brief the panel on “additional information” that came up during an open hearing with the same spy chiefs last Monday.

But the closed-door meeting was never scheduled.

According to several Democrats on the committee, Nunes also canceled two regular panel meetings this week, without giving them a reason.
...
“Effectively what has happened is the committee’s oversight, oversight of our national intelligence apparatus, has come to a halt because of this particular issue,” said committee member Jim Himes (D-Conn.)

posted by OnceUponATime at 2:26 AM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

Devin Nunes Says He Will Continue to Lead Russia Inquiry

The Republican chairman of the House Intelligence Committee rebuffed calls on Tuesday to recuse himself from the panel’s investigation into Russian meddling in the presidential election, as Democrats accused him of stalling the inquiry by canceling the committee’s meetings.

Representative Devin Nunes of California, the chairman, said he would continue to lead the House investigation despite accusations from Democrats
...
“Why would I not?” Mr. Nunes told reporters on Tuesday morning. Pressed about concerns from Democrats, he added, “That sounds like their problem.”

They are really going all in on this idea of "no one can shame you into doing anything if you have no sense of shame" aren't they?
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:37 AM on March 29, 2017 [39 favorites]

I was thinking lexactly that last night - what happens if Nunes just cancels all meetings of the committee? I nearly posted that here, but thought - 'nah, that's not plausible'

Silly, silly Devonian. Have I learned nothing?

So, what now?
posted by Devonian at 3:16 AM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

Do you not have televisions? Is coverage of US protest marches prohibited in the German press?

Mate, it's your domestic politics. How much coverage in the US press was there of the protest march against Brexit in London at the weekend, or of the French elections (to use a foreign language example)? It might be hard to hear this, but from the outside he's your president and the default assumption is that he represents your country.

I'm in the UK, we're countries separated by a common language, but internal US politics don't feature too heavily in the news here. You'll get things like the early protests, or the Republican party cock ups with the AHCA, but not the drumbeat of the day to day issues, unpopularity, town hall protests or similar that are brought up in these threads. I can't imagine it's covered any heavier when the media are covering things happening in a country with a foreign language.

Internationally there's a degree that you're back to Bush days. Sorry.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:58 AM on March 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

Back to Bush days? Then people aren't paying attention at all. I lived in Europe for GWB's first term, and while he wasn't respected, I didn't get the sense that the US was seen as having fundamentally altered its status in the world and become an unreliable rogue state.

My European friends, who are not news junkies or particularly attuned to world politics, tell me they are stunned but impressed by all the ongoing protests here, so I guess the coverage varies.
posted by Superplin at 4:44 AM on March 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

What if the House Intelligence Committee keeps meeting and just doesn't tell Nunes? Will he notice or be too busy scampering around the White House grounds?
posted by harriet vane at 4:44 AM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Dispatch from Eden: What happens when a Trumpite talk radio station whips up a storm in a little town struggling to do right by its high school students.
posted by sacre_bleu at 4:58 AM on March 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

I was thinking lexactly that last night - what happens if Nunes just cancels all meetings of the committee? I nearly posted that here, but thought - 'nah, that's not plausible'

It's part of a pattern: it turns out that there are all sorts of areas where doing nothing is actually a way to concentrate power in the hands of the executive. What happens if they don't appoint anyone to any more executive positions? What if they don't hold elections? It's effectively a coup.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:06 AM on March 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

WSJ (paywalled, but I'll quote the important bits):

In November and January, Mr. Manafort and his wife received as much as $16 million in loans from the Federal Savings Bank, a small bank in Chicago run by Steve Calk. The loans equaled almost 24% of the bank’s reported $67 million of equity capital.

Mr. Calk was a member of Mr. Trump’s Economic Advisory panel who overlapped with Mr. Manafort on the Trump campaign. Messrs. Manafort and Calk knew each other before the campaign, a person familiar with the relationship said.
...
Mark Williams, a Boston University professor and former Federal Reserve bank examiner, said the request for the loan on the Brooklyn house should have raised red flags at Federal Savings Bank.

He said the default and foreclosure proceedings on the house demonstrated an inability or unwillingness to repay the loan. Lending almost 24% of the bank’s reported equity capital to one borrower was risky for the institution, said Mr. Williams, who has publicly criticized Mr. Trump’s economic policies.

Also...

Around the time Mr. Manafort was dealing with Mr. Calk’s bank, he was telling associates of plans for potential private equity deals with Thomas J. Barrack Jr., a wealthy real-estate investor who backed Mr. Trump, The Wall Street Journal has reported. Mr. Barrack, a Trump adviser who was his inaugural committee chairman, has said through a spokesman he has no business relationship with Mr. Manafort and none planned.

Manafort's connections to Trumpworld go deeper than "former campaign manager."
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:13 AM on March 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

that was quick. probly a tad premature. (gofundme for electeds' histories)
posted by j_curiouser at 5:24 AM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

What if the House Intelligence Committee keeps meeting and just doesn't tell Nunes?

My uninformed guess is that those meetings would just be "some congresspeople sitting in a room," not an Intelligence Committee meeting, as far as procedure is concerned.
posted by ryanrs at 5:25 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Without getting all HDU about it, I do wonder how other countries are perceiving the fact that we elected Obama twice and then did this.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:32 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Is Ryan replacing him as Chair the only remedy?
posted by mikelieman at 5:35 AM on March 29, 2017

A few deleted. Let's skip outraged comments about non-Americans having opinions about Trump / the US, please, and let's also skip digging in and fighting some more more more about Bernie / Hillary, how awful the dems are, how much Clinton does/doesn't suck, and just generally fighting and sniping for no particular reason except there isn't some more interesting news at the moment
posted by taz (staff) at 5:37 AM on March 29, 2017 [29 favorites]

It's really hard for me to understand why somebody hasn't paid the Mar-O-Lago fee, get close to Trump, and throw let's say a shoe or a really messy pie at him.

I mean, that person would be hailed as a hero.

No, that person would most likely be shot by the SS.
And even if surviving such an attack, that person then would be sent to jail, if they're lucky.
posted by sour cream at 5:39 AM on March 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

Is Ryan replacing him as Chair the only remedy?

If nothing else, Nunes will term out in 2021.
posted by ryanrs at 5:43 AM on March 29, 2017

Is Ryan replacing him as Chair the only remedy?

A special prosecutor or independent commission would make the intelligence committee irrelevant. That's the best remedy. But it also requires cooperation from Republican leadership...
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:49 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

So, are there any consequences to Yates being interviewed by the panel minus any participants who stand with Nunes?

Could they just talk to her in someone's office?
posted by Slackermagee at 5:49 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

So, how are we feeling about the hypothesis that the Russians also hacked the shit out of Republicans and thus now have kompromat on literally everyone?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:52 AM on March 29, 2017 [38 favorites]

Yeah, at this point, I fail to see how every republican in the House and Senate that don't call for Nunes to step down, are anything but complicit.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:00 AM on March 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

The Gravity is Strong, Part 2

And like evolution, gravity's just a theory, so.

/maga
posted by Rykey at 6:09 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Okay guys, time for a little gravity theory... \1
posted by birdheist at 6:12 AM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

soren_lorensen: So, how are we feeling about the hypothesis that the Russians also hacked the shit out of Republicans and thus now have kompromat on literally everyone?

You mean the fact that we know was RNC hacked, but unlike the DNC hack, no data was released? Still feel the same.
posted by klarck at 6:28 AM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

Like the violent gravitational forces around a black hole, the force of this story will just tear a hapless goober like Nunes to pieces.

Poetry
posted by schadenfrau at 6:31 AM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

Okay guys, time for a little gravity theory

This programme about gravity - with professor Jim Al-Khalili was on BBC 4 (in the UK) last night. Not sure if it's obtainable in the US, but it was definitely worth watching.
posted by Myeral at 6:35 AM on March 29, 2017

_{Wow I genuinely wasn't ready for "Who you calling pugnacious! Why I oughtta kick your ass!" this early in the morning.}

How hard is it going to be to get Nunes out of there?

He was yet another "unopposed" that in retrospect makes the Democrat's 2016 ground game look pretty weak. It's hard to put together a narrative for his district because of regular redistricting and re-numbering around Fresno county. Any meFites in what's now the 22nd want to weigh in?
posted by aspersioncast at 6:38 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

This is the new angle in Josh Marshall's latest. (It's based on the reporting of others, but he seems to find it convincing.)

The FBI likely didn't want to threaten or divulge details of its own investigations for entirely legitimate reasons. It also may not have wanted to divulge how deeply involved it was with Sater and how many bad acts he committed while he was under the FBI's protection. (Let's call this the Whitey Bulger scenario.)

Something similar to the Whitey Bulger scenario seems all too plausible and would explain a lot of the weird behavior by the FBI.
posted by diogenes at 6:39 AM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

To expand on the "Whitey Bulger" scenario idea, what it implies is that people within the FBI committed misdeeds in their dealings with the Russian criminal underworld, and catching any of the bad actors (in this case people tied to Trump) is guaranteed to expose those misdeeds.

In the Whitey Bulger case, this resulted in Whitey "escaping" to Florida and managing to live in plain site for years.
posted by diogenes at 6:44 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

I think Josh Marshall posited a similar theory a few months ago using a hypothesis re: the JFK assassination as an analogy: not that the FBI/CIA/whatever directly was involved, but that they had so many fingers in different unsavory areas that they couldn't be sure that some thread might end up pointing back to them, rightly or no.

Marshall's instincts seem to me to have been pretty good for the last two years (oh god, has it been only two years since Trump shat himself onto the scene!), not just in his level-headed but rightly alarmed assessment of the President's psychological motives generally, but also in the specific issue of his dealings with Russian oligarchy.

I hope he's right to think that the gravitational pull of whatever-the-fuck-is-happening will get revealed, and quickly, and in a way that's undeniable to any but the most rabid Trumpists.

But, if this all comes out, we would need new elections and don't have any mechanism for that. Because the entire Administration will have been found to be compromised, and the Republican "leadership" in Congress is quickly being drawn in, as well.

I don't know what would happen.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:01 AM on March 29, 2017 [22 favorites]

BREAKING: car hits people near US Capitol and shots fired.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:03 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Oh please God let this not be something that can get spun into a Reichstag fire
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:05 AM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Looks like nobody was hurt and the incident is resolved, but god knows how President Calm will respond.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:05 AM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Sketchy reports so far but doesn't sound at all like the incident in London.
posted by martin q blank at 7:08 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Standing committees are elected by the House as a whole (via resolutions), but select committees (like the Select Committee on Intelligence) are appointed by the Speaker.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:10 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

But, if this all comes out, we would need new elections and don't have any mechanism for that.

Yeah, the Twenty Fifth Amendment was enacted following the JFK assassination to handle the incapacitation of a President, but what happens when an entire administration is infested with traitors?
posted by Surely This at 7:14 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Whoops, revised, not enacted...
posted by Surely This at 7:16 AM on March 29, 2017

I'm ok with other countries looking down on us for letting Trump happen, so long as they learn from our mistakes *cough* FRANCE *cough* and don't elect their own rightwing Putin plants.

I really hope LePen's opponents are hammering her on her connections to Trump.
posted by emjaybee at 7:19 AM on March 29, 2017 [22 favorites]

And Russia, which she visits for regular cash top-ups.

Who knows? The global far right seems to have pretty openly aligned itself with Russia now.
posted by Artw at 7:21 AM on March 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

I am unapologetic in my support for Hillary. She has been one of our nation's greatest patriots.

Back in 1993, when I first heard of Rush Limbaugh, I sampled his show to see what he was about. I listened to about 10 minutes of him ranting about Hillary and her femiNazis. Something like 3 months later, I tuned in again. Ten more different minutes of him ranting about Hillary and her femiNazis. About 3 months later, ten more minutes of him ranting about Hillary and her femiNazis. I wondered if he even knew Bill Clinton was president.

While that was probably mostly a coincidence - I doubt he spoke of Hillary Clinton every minute between my samples - it solidified my perspective of the right wing and Hillary: incessant, irrational, and misogynistic.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:25 AM on March 29, 2017 [72 favorites]

Not just the right. One thing 2016 taught me is we can't count on the left to be allies to women. We have to hold them to account, too, and uproot that misogyny wherever we see it, or it will kill us from the inside.

A whole lot of women are done with this. It might not be felt politically for a few years, but it feels like a sea change. We are done supporting people who don't support us. You will feel it.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:37 AM on March 29, 2017 [78 favorites]

Secretary of the Interior says we're going to build the wall in Mexico!
posted by diogenes at 7:42 AM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

We are done supporting people who don't support us

I hope this is true in spite of the anecdata that I have showing the opposite. Making generalizations about a group that you are a part of can be as dangerous as doing it about "the other".
posted by achrise at 7:44 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

I've thought that The Fourth Turning, which Bannon believes will be an embrace of fascism, will instead be the arrival of true democracy to the USA. Trump is the crisis which will be resolved.

Hillary could have won but the monsters were still lurking in the shadows. Trump has brought the monsters into the light.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:44 AM on March 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

Secretary of the Interior says we're going to build the wall in Mexico!

Have they mentioned any of this to, you know, Mexico?
posted by lydhre at 7:44 AM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

More like Secretary of the Exterior amirite
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:45 AM on March 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

Greetings, again let's not dig back into "HRC: threat or menace" and the flip side, "people who don't think Clinton is far enough left: thread or menace". We've really done this plenty of times here. Instead of digging back into repetitive arguments, if there's not enough new stuff to talk about, consider reading another thread or doing something else for a while.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:49 AM on March 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

What if the real wall was the friends we made along the way.
posted by Mayor West at 7:49 AM on March 29, 2017 [56 favorites]

My money is still on the Trump Secreteray of the Interior having just unilaterally declared war on Mexico. It's how these guys roll.
posted by Artw at 7:49 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

This is just laying the groundwork to throw up some cameras and drones and declare that 'the wall' has been built, and that Trump never really meant a 'physical wall' (as opposed to what, exactly?) anyway.

I look forward to John Oliver introducing yet another montage of Trump saying "I never said a literal wall" and "Yes, I mean a literal wall".
posted by Etrigan at 7:54 AM on March 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

What if the real wall was the friends we made along the way.

Maybe the wall can be something like the opposite of the Care Bear Stare. A line of Trump voters, their hearts bursting with hatred, glaring at the border.
posted by diogenes at 7:54 AM on March 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

Those TPM and WhoWhatWhere pieces are actually pretty discouraging. It looks like Trump can't be taken down without the NY office of FBI going down too. The FBI can't be taken down without exposing dirt on the CIA or otherwise revealing too much about many IC sources and methods. Let's add to that the not-entirely-crazy idea that kompromat on Republican MoC's is stored somewhere.

I think it adds up to a conspiracy that is Too Big to Fail. The very serious people involved believe revealing it would undermine the very fabric of the public trust and destroy the country.

Trump will serve out his term.
posted by klarck at 7:56 AM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

Or as one of the comments in the Twitter thread suggested: fill the Rio Grande with river sharks with laser beams strapped to their heads.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:56 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

You mean you guys haven't been hearing the quotes around "build" and "wall?"
posted by contraption at 7:56 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Maybe the wall can be something like the opposite of the Care Bear Stare. A line of Trump voters, their hearts bursting with hatred, glaring at the border.

If the Care Bears had guns, maybe.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:56 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

My money is still on the Trump Secreteray of the Interior having just unilaterally declared war on Mexico. It's how these guys roll.

He hasn't yet? I thought he was going to Make America Great Again. A time when most US presidencies meant plundering a little bit more of Mexico.
posted by Talez at 7:57 AM on March 29, 2017

It's really hard for me to understand why somebody hasn't paid the Mar-O-Lago fee, get close to Trump, and throw let's say a shoe or a really messy pie at him.

I mean, that person would be hailed as a hero.

Oh Angrycat, I can feel you winking, so hard, right through the interwebs. I have wondered this too. Or why not a beautiful spy, the kind he can't keep his eyes off of, to slip a mickey into his drink, or something. All of this talk about the ease of access has to have a certain kind of person thinking. even if just for the comedic value (not the "life affirming" value, of course).
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:57 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

I look forward to John Oliver introducing yet another montage of Trump saying "I never said a literal wall" and "Yes, I mean a literal wall".

I'm dying to know how a non-literal wall can be fifty feet tall and made of concrete.
posted by diogenes at 7:57 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

"When I said 'the wall just got ten feet taller,' I obviously meant 'the drones will fly ten feet higher.' Besides, I was always saying 'wall' in airquotes, which as we all know means I didn't literally mean a wall.' [fake]

I think you're on to something! Remember in Guardians of the Galaxy how they did that force field net? Maybe Trump plans something like that?
posted by Talez at 8:01 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

I hope this is true in spite of the anecdata that I have showing the opposite. Making generalizations about a group that you are a part of can be as dangerous as doing it about "the other"

I mean, the Tea Party didn't consist of all Republicans, but they were pretty effective.

I look forward to the rise of the Agony Aunts.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:06 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ned Resnikoff: "Steve King, who two weeks ago was defending nationalist racial purity, is now back on CNN as a standard House GOP caucus surrogate. Amazing. CNN just queried a legit white nationalist about sanctuary cities without even hinting at the fact that he's a white nationalist."
posted by galaxy rise at 8:08 AM on March 29, 2017 [79 favorites]

I went to a talk last night featuring Arkady Ostrovsky from The Economist and Russia's former Foreign Minister, Andrei Kozyrev . Ostrovsky stated that it is his belief that within a year Putin may be gone from Russia. That Navalny and the new resistance are growing in strength and have the youth of the country behind them, this has come as a surprise to the powers that be. Also they no longer have an easy 'bad guy' to blame for all Russia's problems, since they openly toasted with champagne in glee that Trump won.

It's a long talk, but a lot of interesting things that really has me looking at Russia differently.
posted by readery at 8:17 AM on March 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

CNN just queried a legit white nationalist about sanctuary cities without even hinting at the fact that he's a white nationalist.

What's the other side of quietly and peacefully building a life? Loudly and violently destroying a life.
posted by Talez at 8:18 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

I've seldom had a charismatic boss who didn't turn out to be a lying self dealing weasel, so I'm probably showing my personal biases.

A charismatic boss -- what a concept. I wonder what that's like.
posted by y2karl at 8:22 AM on March 29, 2017

In this way, the FBI’s dilemma about revealing valuable sources, assets and equities in its ongoing investigation of links between the Trump administration and Russian criminal elements harkens back to the embarrassing, now infamous Whitey Bulger episode. In that case, the Feds protected Bulger, a dangerous Boston-based mobster serving as their highly valued informant, even as the serial criminal continued to participate in heinous crimes. The FBI now apparently finds itself confronted with similar issues: Is its investigation of the mob so crucial to national security that it outweighs the public’s right to know about their president?

How can it possibly be that crucial? I mean, however much of a threat the Russian mafia/government is behind the scenes, that hidden threat can't possibly outweigh the threat they pose if they can exercise power from within the Oval Office itself!

I think the FBI will do the right thing here, and take Trump down, if they have the evidence to do so. But they will indeed play their hand very carefully, not just to avoid exposing whatever misdeeds they knew about but tolerated to keep the information flowing from their informants, but because the public needs time to absorb shocking information.

"Drip drip drip" is the only way to get information into people's heads, when they are resistant (as Trump's voters are!) It's like advertising -- short, repeated messages eventually get through people's defenses. "Trump is tied to Russia. Trump is tied to Russia. Trump is tied to Russia."

During the campaign, they probably believed (like everyone else) that Hillary Clinton would win, and that the Trump problem could be dealt with quietly behind the scenes after the fact. Now that he's won, they have no choice but to show their hand -- or at least part of it -- but they have to do it in a way that doesn't look like a coup! They have to do it in a way that preserves as much faith as possible in American institutions, or we could end up as a failed state ourselves. It's an incredibly delicate situation. So they are handling it delicately. Drip, drip, drip.

That's all opinion based on nothing but my reasoning about what I would do in their position, and my continuing fears of our historically deep political polarization escalating into some level of actual violence. So take it for what it's worth. But I think the FBI has the goods, and when Trump's approval rating hits 27%, they're gonna show us at least some of what they have.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:23 AM on March 29, 2017 [26 favorites]

Yes, I mean a literal wall

spicer: the president actually said 'Yes, I mean a "literal wall"'

[fake i hope]
posted by murphy slaw at 8:24 AM on March 29, 2017

Or why not a beautiful spy, the kind he can't keep his eyes off of[...]
Maga Hari?
posted by Heretic at 8:24 AM on March 29, 2017 [34 favorites]

I think it adds up to a conspiracy that is Too Big to Fail. The very serious people involved believe revealing it would undermine the very fabric of the public trust and destroy the country.

Yeah, but game this out - if there's shady dealings that Trump happened to bungle into and that's why the FBI/CIA is loathe to put the hard evidence (even much soft evidence) out there, doesn't that mean that it was probably compromised with the RNC hack as well? If that's it, then the great conspiracy will just be used by the Kremlin when they need to use it (which they will soon, or their economy is going to collapse) to force friendly action from economic actors. It's like the filibuster/nuclear option dilemma of the Gorsuch hearing, in fact: They're going to use it eventually.
posted by eclectist at 8:25 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

3. Why, oh why did anyone think it was a good idea to leave politics to a completely politically uneducated person? "Our top brain surgeons tried their best and failed, there is no way we can save the patient!" "Unless... let's get Bobo, The Juggling Chimpanzee in there, see how he does!"

Our top brain surgeon is currently busy with Housing and Urban Development (for some reason), so we're stuck with Bobo for a while.
posted by Uncle Ira at 8:34 AM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

Bobo and Brain Surgeon are the same clown.
posted by srboisvert at 8:36 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

The FBI now apparently finds itself confronted with similar issues: Is its investigation of the mob so crucial to national security that it outweighs the public’s right to know about their president?

How can it possibly be that crucial?

It clearly can't be. I think we might be underestimating the seriousness of the FBI's misdeeds and their desire not to expose them. The idea that they are just trying to give us time to absorb the information is the most optimistic angle.
posted by diogenes at 8:36 AM on March 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

Spicer is up in 20 minutes; early today! For those who are waiting to see if April Ryan will show up and just shake her head the entire time he's talking.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:39 AM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

So, is there a presser every day? Was it always this way?
posted by yoga at 8:43 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Interesting piece (from February) on visa overstays by area of origin. Canada plus Europe outnumber Mexico, Central America, South America and the Caribbean combined.

Has Trump cracked down on any illegal immigrants who are not, um, swarthy?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:43 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

So, is there a presser every day? Was it always this way?

They almost never do 5 a week, but they are this week, for some reason. I guess they want to get ahead of the nonsense.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:45 AM on March 29, 2017

The FBI's behavior is perplexing, for sure... It doesn't make sense to me that they're just trying to cover things up, though, otherwise, why would they have disclosed anything about Trump and Russia?
posted by overglow at 8:46 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

More like Secretary of the Exterior amirite

"Posterior" surely.

I think it adds up to a conspiracy that is Too Big to Fail. The very serious people involved believe revealing it would undermine the very fabric of the public trust and destroy the country.

Given the cognitive dissonance required to maintain that rationale in the face of the very obvious destruction of the fabric of the public trust by the actual administration, you'd think there'd be a rash of heads exploding like popcorn all around Congress. Honestly I think Trump's Razor applies and the "conspiracy" is just a whole bunch of greedy incompetents vying to slap the last piece of pizza.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:48 AM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Re, immigration from areas not Latin or Brown People, my best friend, conspirator, and patent partner, was a Brit who overstayed his visa, preTrump, and when ICE snagged him, he was deported almost immediately. Now, they may be looking for Latinx, but they'll take anyone they find, it's not like white undocumented workers are treated any better if they're caught.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:52 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

CNN just queried a legit white nationalist about sanctuary cities without even hinting at the fact that he's a white nationalist.

In the same way that resisting the Trump agenda will rely on years of harassing our elected representatives à la the Tea Party, correcting course the Fourth Estate from their established patterns of false equivalence and tolerance of extremists will require lots and lots of complaining.

Here's CNN's feedback page, and their community e-mail addresses are cnn.feedback@cnn.com and community@cnn.com. The corporate office's telephone number is 404-827-1700 and the fax is 404-827-2600 (the DC bureau's phone number is 202-898-7900).

Contacting them to complain about is just a start down a long road, but you can be sure the players on the other side have a head start.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:53 AM on March 29, 2017 [49 favorites]

> Interesting piece (from February) on visa overstays by area of origin. Canada plus Europe outnumber Mexico, Central America, South America and the Caribbean combined.

I'm always wary of statements about "visa overstays". Many US visas (mine included) only govern entry criteria, the legal document covering how long you can stay is the I-94. If my visa expires on the 1st July 2017 (it doesn't, BTW) but I have entered the US the day prior and was given the customary 2-year I-94, I am perfectly legal to stay in the US until 30th June 2019. Yet on the 2nd July 2017 I'd be considered by most to be a "visa overstay".

Conversely, if I'd entered the US in the first 3 years of my 5-year visa and stayed longer than 2 years at a time, I'd have exceeded my I-94 authorisation and would have been illegally in the US despite holding a valid visa.

What are the figures for visa AND I-94 overstays?
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 8:54 AM on March 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

"You don't get to tell other people what racism is! You don't know what's in Sean's heart!"

Said the angry white man to a black man, to no one's surprise.

Literally toddlers.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:56 AM on March 29, 2017 [19 favorites]

Regarding Whitey Bulger, I grew up in Boston during his heyday. More than once I've found myself with friends regaling people from elsewhere about this notorious mobster's incredible audacity. [And then he "won" the Lottery! Nooo! Yes! And his brother was the President of the State Senate! No way! Etc.] And Whitey is a horrible, horrible man, but in those moments it was possible to feel a certain delight in how specific his brand of awfulness was to 1960s-70s Boston.

After all is said and done, and Trump is dethroned, is that how we will tell stories about this administration?
posted by carmicha at 8:56 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Trump administration's awfulness will be eclipsed by it's complete incompetence, when historians write about this dumb period of American history.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:59 AM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

After all is said and done, and Trump is dethroned, is that how we will tell stories about this administration?

"Wait, why is the chapter on the Obama Years followed by the 2020s? The math doesn't--"
"Shut up, Tyler. Just... just don't. Please."
posted by Etrigan at 9:02 AM on March 29, 2017 [41 favorites]

So, is there a presser every day? Was it always this way?

Yes, it's just that they used to be really boring ("Today the President will sign the Doesn't Really Do Much of Anything Act, and will be meeting with the Prime Minister of Boringstan to discuss how great it is that Boringstan and the United States are bestest buds. I will now take some questions.") and now they're a trainwreck shitshow that no one can look away from.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2017 [59 favorites]

After all is said and done, and Trump is dethroned, is that how we will tell stories about this administration?

I think his die hard supporters who are "in it for the lulz" already see it this way: "he bragged about sexual assault and he STILL WON!", "he insulted John McCain and McCain rolled over!", "he said racist shit and it didn't hurt him!", etc. They love it.
posted by dis_integration at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

I dunno, they'll probably have a good stab at erasing all knowledge of history prior to them as well.
posted by Artw at 9:04 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Here is a pdf with the 2015 study regarding overstays. This was the study cited by the abovementioned Latin Times article. It appears that the definition is more than "expired visa."

"An overstay is a nonimmigrant who was lawfully admitted to the United States for an authorized period but stayed or remains in the United States beyond his or her lawful admission period."

(Five Andorrans overstayed! Not many, but it may be the start of something.)

There are probably nuances I don't know how to pick up, but it seems as though the quoted numbers are not from visa overstays, but from overstays as defined above.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:08 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Literally toddlers.

To be fair, this is more like preschoolers. My four-year-old has recently discovered the power of just sitting down and saying, "You don't tell me what to do! Don't say anything!"

At which point I calmly pick him up, because I am four times his size, take him to his room, place him on his bed and say, "I'm setting the timer for four minutes and then we'll talk about it once you get a handle on your feelings." I'm pretty sure that if I every somehow found myself in the midst of these manbabies I'd just be like, "Do you need to go sit on the naughty step until you can control your feelings?"
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:09 AM on March 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

Spicer live link. He doesn't sound chipper today.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

GOP lawmaker: Senate should take lead on Congress’s Russia investigation

“The House is paralyzed on this thing,” Rep. Charlie Dent (R-Pa.) said in an interview. “The Senate is moving forward. I think that’s the only committee that’s going to be able to bring us a report at this point.”

The leaders of the Senate Intelligence Committee are expected to brief the press on Wednesday afternoon about the status of their investigation.

Dent is one of the first Republican voices to openly advocate moving the Russia investigation out of the House Intelligence Committee’s hands. Last week, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said “no longer does the Congress have credibility to handle this alone,” calling for a select committee or independent commission to take over the investigation.

So we're currently at Sens. Graham and McCain, as well as Reps Walter Jones and Charlie Dent questioning the credibility of Devin Nunes leading the House Intelligence Committee investigation into Russian interference in the election. Jones has called for Nunes to completely recuse himself.

Although it's extremely disappointing that only 4 Congressional Republicans--by my count--have called for Nunes' recusal, it's a start. While the Republicans don't give a damn when it's the Democratic leadership and voters shaming them for incompetence and questionable loyalty to the idea of Congressional oversight, they may have a harder time ignoring members of their caucus. Keep up the pressure!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:12 AM on March 29, 2017 [25 favorites]

He doesn't sound chipper today

Good. I'm loathe to wish anyone ill, but I loathe him and wish him to fall ill.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:12 AM on March 29, 2017 [34 favorites]

Two takeaways here: first, that we're three months into the Trump presidency and only now is he making any effort to reach out to Democrats; Trump has, effectively, made no effort to govern on behalf of the whole country. Second, that this partisanship -- coupled with Trump's extremism -- has driven away even Democrats who were opposed to the ACA; or, from another perspective, even the most moderate and conservative Democrats are seeing the value of a unified opposition to Trump.

Third takeaway: Brianna Wu has Lynch spooked that moderate democrats may not be that secure in their seats anymore.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:15 AM on March 29, 2017 [31 favorites]

Good. I'm loathe to wish anyone ill, but I loathe him and wish him to fall ill.

I hope he steps on a Lego.
posted by pxe2000 at 9:15 AM on March 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

Nate Cohn, New York Times: A 2016 Review: Turnout Wasn’t the Driver of Clinton’s Defeat

In the aftermath of the 2016 presidential election, many analysts suggested that Hillary Clinton lost to Donald J. Trump because of poor Democratic turnout.

Months later, it is clear that the turnout was only modestly better for Mr. Trump than expected.

To the extent Democratic turnout was weak, it was mainly among black voters. Even there, the scale of Democratic weakness has been exaggerated.

Instead, it’s clear that large numbers of white, working-class voters shifted from the Democrats to Mr. Trump. Over all, almost one in four of President Obama’s 2012 white working-class supporters defected from the Democrats in 2016, either supporting Mr. Trump or voting for a third-party candidate.

This analysis compares official voter files — data not available until months after the election — with The Upshot’s pre-election turnout projections in Florida, Pennsylvania and North Carolina. The turnout patterns evident in these states are representative of broader trends throughout the battleground states and nationwide.

posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:16 AM on March 29, 2017 [34 favorites]

Spicer stumbles over Nunes position and shows he has no understanding of whether he's "nominated or confirmed or whatever it is" (roughly)
posted by jammer at 9:17 AM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Spicer live link. He doesn't sound chipper today.

While it's obvious that there's a number of operas, plays, and films to be made about the tragedy of Donald Trump, there's a decent one man show to be written on the sad, daily humiliation of being Sean Spicer.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:17 AM on March 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

I'm dying to know how a non-literal wall can be fifty feet tall and made of concrete.

It's abstract concrete.
posted by uosuaq at 9:18 AM on March 29, 2017 [28 favorites]

Spicer stumbles over Nunes position and shows he has no understanding of whether he's "nominated or confirmed or whatever is it" (roughly)

Spicer is barely a Josh and couldn't hold a candle to C.J.
posted by Talez at 9:18 AM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Good. I'm loathe to wish anyone ill, but I loathe him and wish him to fall ill.

I hope he steps on a Lego.

Jesus, there are limits. We're trying to have a society here.
posted by Etrigan at 9:18 AM on March 29, 2017 [36 favorites]

While it's obvious that there's a number of operas, plays, and films to be made about the tragedy of Donald Trump, there's a decent one man show to be written on the sad, daily humiliation of being Sean Spicer.

With music by Tom Waits, a la Blood Money. I can already feel the pathos.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:18 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Also, David French, a National Review columnist, is calling for Nunes to step down.
posted by overglow at 9:22 AM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

OnceUponATime: I hope this hunch of yours isn't just a fairy tale, but even if it is, it's one I think I'll try to live in for a while; thanks for the glimmer of hope. Maybe dreams can come true! What we believe and accept as possible makes a difference in what happens, so I'm going to believe this as hard as I can for now.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:23 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Also, David French, a National Review columnist is calling for Nunes to step down.

David French never drank the Kool-Aid. He's sitting outside in the cold with Rick Wilson and Tom Nichols looking in on their former Grand Old Party.
posted by Talez at 9:23 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Spicer says that if they start looking into certain things, the press will ask him to look into other things, so "you're damned if you do, damned if you don't." [real]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:24 AM on March 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

I hope this hunch of yours isn't just a fairy tale, but even if it is, it's one I think I'll try to live in for a while

You know things are bad when "The FBI is worried we might be on the brink of civil war or at least significant domestic terrorism" is the rosy fairy-tale scenario...
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:27 AM on March 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

It's abstract concrete.

Abcrete, commonly produced by mixing the fibrous leavings of broken promises with the fragile egos of an administrative group. This produces a quick setting and malleable material that is still fragile but also tends to catch fire after being observed for too long.

It's redeeming quality is the low price point per unit.
posted by Slackermagee at 9:27 AM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

has it been only two years since Trump shat himself onto the scene!

Begotten, not made...Definitely sui generis, anyway!
posted by notsnot at 9:27 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

SPICER: "We're 21 days into the process of the Republican healthcare plan."

He's either forgotten most of the last three months or the last seven years.
posted by MattWPBS at 9:29 AM on March 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

He's just claimed that Trump was a strong leader in the call for Brexit...(!) That, and he wants the UK to remain a strong leader in Europe. Spicer doesn't have a fucking clue what Brexit is if he thinks that's possible.
posted by MattWPBS at 9:33 AM on March 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

> "The FBI is worried we might be on the brink of civil war...

I'm almost finished Roxane Gay's new collection of short stories (which is great, and you should read it), and one of them ("Noble Things") is set in a world where various Southern states seceded over an unspecified political grievance, which led to a chaotic but relatively low-intensity civil war and ultimately the breakup of the United States. After the war ends, a wall is built to separate the new, separate countries and a fragile peace is maintained, although a constant stream of refugees flows northward. Anyway, it seemed depressingly plausible reading it last night during a bout of insomnia.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:34 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

The UK is heading into an abyss and everything it touches is going to have to struggle hard not to be dragged in, so it and the US are similar leaders in that regard.
posted by Artw at 9:35 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't know if "stronger" is the right framing here, but it is certainly intractable in a different way.

There's the old saw about "northern" vs "southern" racism: the northern racist doesn't care how big a black person gets, as long as they don't get too close; the southern racist doesn't care how close a black person gets, as long as they don't get too big.

It's struck me that as misogyny goes, the vast majority of it is the "long as she doesn't get too big" variety.
posted by Drastic at 9:39 AM on March 29, 2017 [39 favorites]

And I actually think that for low-info voters "chaaaaange" is a major driver.

I have a hard time thinking of a dumber idea than that "change is always good". Any alteration of circumstances is good? When World War One broke out, that was "change". The related idea, on the personal level, that it is always good to "get out of your comfort zone", is a contender, I suppose. My "comfort zone", where I have a nice job and food and clothes and I'm not an active raging alcoholic anymore and I have a place to live and friends? Yeah, I better get out of that!
posted by thelonius at 9:40 AM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

I have a hard time thinking of a dumber idea than that "change is always good".

Me too. It's the battle cry of the (historically) soft and coddled. It only works if you have insufficient imagination when it comes to terrible things.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:42 AM on March 29, 2017 [21 favorites]

Me too. It's the battle cry of the (historically) soft and coddled. It only works if you have insufficient imagination when it comes to terrible things.

oh no
posted by Talez at 9:46 AM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Spicey is having to explain over and over again that Trump was joking last night when he said how "easy" it's going to be to make a new deal on health care. People aren't buying it.
posted by zachlipton at 9:46 AM on March 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

The thing I admire about Hillary is, she took all that abuse, and she could've just hid, retired from the public eye, made it stop. But instead she ran for senate, and then for president. She's gonna be remembered like Jackie Robinson, I think.

It seems to be traditional for losing presidential candidates to go back to whatever they were doing prior. Bob Dole, John Kerrey and John McCain went back to the Senate. Mitt Romney went back to his mansions.

But what Hillary Clinton has been doing all her life is public service. If she emerges to oppose Trump -- and yes, to stand as a constant, in-your-face reminder of what certain people voted against -- then I'm all for it. Let the contrasts between Clinton and Trump stand on their own merits, without a national media obsessed with taking her down on a fool's quest for something, anything wrong about her emails.
posted by Gelatin at 9:47 AM on March 29, 2017 [31 favorites]

And I actually think that for low-info voters "chaaaaange" is a major driver.

When a sitting President isn't on the ballot, the candidate with less experience in elected office tends to win. And by "tends", I mean that it has happened in every such election since 1896.

Except, technically, 1960, where Kennedy had about a week more experience than Nixon.
posted by Etrigan at 9:48 AM on March 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

Did anyone else get the impression that Spicer didn't understand that US troops aren't officially meant to be fighting in Iraq?
posted by MattWPBS at 9:49 AM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

Spicer has apparently never heard of the GA-6 special election that's happening right now. Which is pretty curious, because that would be either one less vote they have to work for or one more they can't get for their ridiculous health care plan.
posted by zrail at 9:50 AM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Spicey is having to explain over and over again that Trump was joking last night when he said how "easy" it's going to be to make a new deal on health care. People aren't buying it.

Were there any funds in his budget to help teach American-ese?
posted by thelonius at 9:50 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Spicer has apparently never heard of the GA-6 special election that's happening right now. Which is pretty curious

The depth of knowledge that Sean Spicer fails to have at any given moment is no longer even the slightest bit odd to me.
posted by Etrigan at 9:51 AM on March 29, 2017 [35 favorites]

Another day, another livestream of House Democrats forcing Republicans to vote against trying to get any details about Trump/Russia.
posted by diogenes at 9:53 AM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

I have a hard time thinking of a dumber idea than that "change is always good".

It is dumb. But there's a lot of people who fundamentally mistrust and dislike the government (often not justified, but it's an American meme that won't ever die) for whom "vote the bums out" is an easy way to not have to pay much attention to politics.

I have had monumentally irritating conversations with my mom (who is generally smart, competent and reasonably well-informed) because her permanent position on everything is "whatever the government is doing right now is bad." She has never once in my entire life said a good thing about anything any state, local, or federal government has done. She complains about taxes, she complains about infrastructure, she complains about regulations that to me seem like trivial obstacles to getting what I need to get done done but that to her are just more proof that government hates her. She voted for Obama in 08. For Romney in 12. For Johnson in 16 because even she could see that the kind of change Trump was proposing was not the kind she wanted.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:55 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

From the incomparable R. Eric Thomas: You Will Never, in Your Entire Life, Get the Best of Maxine Waters

Congresswoman Maxine Waters isn't even reading these fools anymore. She has completely leveled up. She is like Scarlett Johansson in Lucy, that movie where she was using like 100% of her brain and she can control televisions and tell the future. That's Maxine Waters. Except with reading. We don't even have a word for what she's doing yet.

Honestly, I wasn't even going to write about Bill O'Reilly's comments about her hair today. And I'm not, actually. I'm writing about Congresswoman Waters. Because Bill O'Reilly (whoever that is) can't come for her. He wasn't sent for. His hairline doesn't have the range. She has 40 years of political receipts. He has tired, racist dog whistles about hair. These are not equivalent. If he thinks he was reading her, he needs Hooked on Phonics.

So, dearly beloved, we are not gathered here today to talk about the schoolyard taunts of a talking head. We are gathered in the Church of Maxine.

posted by zachlipton at 9:57 AM on March 29, 2017 [75 favorites]

I don't see any winning in the "is sexism or racism worse?" conversation. Both are bad, they inform each other and intertwine and react in weird ways in the brains of different individuals. Add to this: any other negative -ism. It's like trying to decide which snake in the den of poisonous snakes is MOST poisonous. Not helpful. You should really just get out of the den.
posted by emjaybee at 10:01 AM on March 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

Today's Gallup: 59% disapprove, 35% approve, for a net approval rating of -24%

This is by far the lowest point of this dumpster fire (trumpster fire?) of a presidency; the previous lowest point was -21%. So much winning, I can't even!
posted by un petit cadeau at 10:04 AM on March 29, 2017 [41 favorites]

Rep. Gohmert (R, Texas) is currently regaling the Judiciary Committee with the debunked "Hillary gave Russia uranium story." I'm not sure to what end.
posted by diogenes at 10:04 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

The House Judiciary Committee trying to get Trump's taxes? I think? Is now Louie Gohmert yammering about Killary! Uranium!!!!

Just in case anyone is wondering who the current sitting President is, it is not Hillary Clinton.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:04 AM on March 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

Video of Trump's statement, should anyone want to trust their own lying eyes on this one.

Funny how nobody laughed at what Spicer claimed was such an obvious joke.
posted by zachlipton at 10:06 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oh wait, now we're on to HER EMAILS!

God this guy is a shit.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:06 AM on March 29, 2017 [16 favorites]

I guess Gohmert is trying to say that the Democrats concern about Russia is purely political because they didn't care that Hillary gave uranium to Russia.

And he just worked in Hillary's emails!
posted by diogenes at 10:06 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Myself and diogenes will be here for your Congressional committee Greek chorus needs all week! Please tip your servers.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:09 AM on March 29, 2017 [29 favorites]

Find out how much your Senators and Representatives sold your internet privacy for. My Rep (Granger) went for a measly $15k.
posted by emjaybee at 10:15 AM on March 29, 2017 [25 favorites]

House Reps are amazingly cheap. So are senators, at least as far as cabinet positions go.

Maybe we should crowdsource buying our own reps? I mean, at 15k, I can imagine saving up for one.
posted by nat at 10:18 AM on March 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

(thank you for your pedentry, cjelli; in my defense, I was too busy picturing Indiana Jones climbing away from a roomful of racism snakes to pay attention to the poisonous/venomous distinction.)
posted by emjaybee at 10:18 AM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Two takeaways here: first, that we're three months into the Trump presidency and only now is he making any effort to reach out to Democrats; Trump has, effectively, made no effort to govern on behalf of the whole country.

That technique hardly started with Trump, though. Dick "Dick" Cheney was notorious for actively eschewing Democratic cooperation (unless, of course, they truly needed it, like their failed plan to tank Social Security) on the grounds that any concessions one made courting Democratic votes was essentially leaving money on the table.

House Reps are amazingly cheap. So are senators, at least as far as cabinet positions go.

If memory serves me correctly, that's why billionaire donors like the odious Koch Brothers prefer to, ah, invest in downticket races; they're more cost-effective.
posted by Gelatin at 10:22 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

House Reps are amazingly cheap.

None of these people were "bought". They simply don't care, because they have no idea whatsoever what they've just done.
posted by Etrigan at 10:22 AM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

They've no idea what they've sold, that's true.
posted by Artw at 10:25 AM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

I really do not want to detract from your point by saying this, but, to put my pedant hat on briefly, snakes are venomous, not poisonous

This is my biggest pet peeve as a fellow herpedant (along with frog/toad confusion).
posted by zakur at 10:26 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

House Reps are amazingly cheap. So are senators, at least as far as cabinet positions go.

There's been a variety of studies on e.g. how much a pharmaceutical company has to pay for free lunches and swag to get a doctor to prescribe their stuff more, or how much a political organization has to donate to get a bill passed, and the results are basically: not very much. In a movie, we'd be talking about million dollar bribes. In reality, it's usually more like a couple thousand dollars, if that. In fact, probably the least believable aspect (to me) of the Rosneft portion of the Russia conspiracy going around is the notion that Russia would have to pay that much for what they've allegedly bought.

Corruption comes in much smaller packages than people think.
posted by tocts at 10:34 AM on March 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

Yeah, and once you get down to the state lege level, where the redistricting and voter suppression really happens, they are even cheaper. $30-40k can probably buy you a state legislator outright, or maybe even a corporation commissioner or a state judge.

Or, if you're just interested in influencing an important vote, that same amount spread around among six or eight state legislators can probably get you a favorable result, assuming it's not too high profile an issue. Lobbying at the state level is one of the best cash investments a corporate interest can make, when it comes to ROI.

And often, you don't even have to spend the money. Just threaten to spend it on a primary challenger and it's enough. As long as the legislator knows you have the money to spend, it's enough.

And when the two methods are combined in a carrot-and-stick approach, it doesn't take much money at all to buy yourself a corrupted democracy.
posted by darkstar at 10:36 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

None of these people were "bought". They simply don't care, because they have no idea whatsoever what they've just done.

Probably they'll tell you they ended a "job-killing regulation", and maybe they actually believe that
posted by thelonius at 10:41 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

$30-40k can probably buy you a state legislator outright,

I'm a lobbyist in a certain wang-shaped state and I can assure you that $30,000 is way too much. You can get a vote for about $5,000-$10,000.

I lobby on environmental issues for a coalition of non-profits, and we don't hand out checks at all. I have to actually show legislators data indicating a majority of their voting constituents favor clean drinking-water. They'll argue that this is a representative democracy, and the voters trust their judgement.
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:46 AM on March 29, 2017 [43 favorites]

Timothy B. Lee at Vox: “What the Republican online privacy bill means for you”
posted by Going To Maine at 10:50 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Crowdfunding campaign seeks to purchase search history of lawmakers who killed internet privacy.
posted by terooot at 10:52 AM on March 29, 2017 [60 favorites]

That should show how much ISPs paid Dems too. I'm sure they're not too different.

Except the Dems didn't vote to sell us out?

I know "both parties do it" is compelling but this vote split down party lines, like many do, because the Republicans really are that much worse.
posted by asteria at 10:53 AM on March 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

no Democrats voted for the bill

Glad to hear they didn't bipartisan this shit. It's a small consolation, but it's something.
posted by Artw at 10:53 AM on March 29, 2017

A bunch of comments deleted. Sorry, folks, "which is worse, misogyny or racism" is a worse-than-bad road to start down and let's just don't.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:56 AM on March 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

I have a hard time thinking of a dumber idea than that "change is always good".

It is dumb. But there's a lot of people who fundamentally mistrust and dislike the government (often not justified, but it's an American meme that won't ever die) for whom "vote the bums out" is an easy way to not have to pay much attention to politics.

This is so, so, true. To many people, government is just "the idiots who steal my income via taxes" and delight in "throwing the bums out." Even entrenched congresscritters often run campaigns based on their osupposed utsider status to prove they're not part of the Washington elite.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:00 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump picks his Apple

Evidently we have lost our ability to easily identify the source of Trump's tweets. Sigh. Can he not leave any working system alone??
posted by Silverstone at 11:01 AM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

I can tell you as a German that it won't be easy to convince people you are not all 100% behind your leader and on board with every single one of his policies.

That has never been the case with any elected leader. I voted for Obama twice, and I was never on board with all of his policies. Not even the Russians are 100% behind Putin. I'm sure that not all the German people back everything Merkel does. It defies common sense to believe that political leaders represent an entirely unified will of the people.
posted by krinklyfig at 11:06 AM on March 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

> Ivanka Trump Lives in Washington, Works at the White House, But isn't an Employee Subject to Federal Rules

Can we revisit this for a second? There's something I'm confused about.

Back when I was working at the NIH, any time the gov't closed (shutdown, snowpacalypse, &c) we were all quite explicitly told that not only were we allowed not to work, we were in fact required not to work -- even if we wanted to do so without pay -- because we couldn't legally volunteer our services to the US Gov't. The reasoning, as I understood it, is that the Anti-Deficiency Act prohibits the executive branch undertaking actions that might create financial obligations for the gov't; because the act of volunteering one's services could create such an obligation, the GAO interprets the Antideficiency Act as prohibiting federal agencies from accepting voluntary services.

So, given that (per GAO)

The Antideficiency Act prohibits federal employees from
...
accepting voluntary services for the United States, or employing personal services not authorized by law, except in cases of emergency involving the safety of human life or the protection of property. 31 U.S.C. § 1342.

how is it that the White House is allowed to accept Ivanka Trump's voluntary services?
posted by Westringia F. at 11:07 AM on March 29, 2017 [74 favorites]

So, I can declare myself an advertiser (Come visit my blog! - There, it's official) and buy the home and DC apartment browsing of whatever Congressman I want and find out which ones visit the furry porn sites? And then I can have furry pop-ups directed at them?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:08 AM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

how is it that the White House is allowed to accept Ivanka Trump's voluntary services?

They're not. But they don't care, because the GOP isn't going to call them on it.
posted by Etrigan at 11:08 AM on March 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

I wouldn't think we'll need to shell out too much to get Congressional browsing histories. Given they're not now regulated, and given the ISPs' notable lack of nous in matters technical, it won't be long before those plump ol' databases leak all over the shop.
posted by Devonian at 11:09 AM on March 29, 2017

how is it that the White House is allowed to accept Ivanka Trump's voluntary services?

Because the Republican-led Congress allows them to run outside of the law.

Feel free to re-use that answer for literally everything Trump does, because it's pretty much always correct. If the Republicans actually wanted Trump to be held accountable, they have the means to do it, but not the will.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 11:09 AM on March 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

Obamacare-Hater Price Sounds All But Ready To Undermine The Law

The fight never ends, they're still going to do everything possible to undermine the health insurance market, blame Democrats, and come back to try tax cuts disguised as fuck-you-care all over again.

Republicans don't care about health care, only ideology.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:10 AM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Propaganda doesn't reflect realty, if it must be mentioned.
posted by krinklyfig at 11:11 AM on March 29, 2017

Evidently we have lost our ability to easily identify the source of Trump's tweets. Sigh. Can he not leave any working system alone??

The Trump or Not Twitterbot "run[s] Donald Trump's tweets through a natural-language processor and try to figure out if he's actually writing them."

But yeah.
posted by mazola at 11:12 AM on March 29, 2017

The Trump or Not Twitterbot "run[s] Donald Trump's tweets through a natural-language processor and try to figure out if he's actually writing them."

Mostly it's not even that difficult--you're just looking to see if a given tweet is written at or above a sixth-grade reading level. There is precisely 0% chance Trump would use the phrase "viciously and inaccurately" in a tweet; sounds too much like those damned eggheads. Similarly "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory;" he knows all the words, but only recognizes that particular verb as a noun.
posted by Mayor West at 11:18 AM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

>> how is it that the White House is allowed to accept Ivanka Trump's voluntary services?

> They're not. But they don't care, because the GOP isn't going to call them on it.

> Because the Republican-led Congress allows them to run outside of the law.

Alright then, second question: why aren't we holding them accountable by flooding GAO with reports of Antideficiency Act violations?

For more information about submitting Antideficiency Act reports to GAO, contact Edda Emmanuelli Perez, Managing Associate General Counsel, at emmanuellipereze@gao.gov or 202-512-2853.

For general inquiries about the act, send an e-mail to AntideficiencyActReports@gao.gov.

posted by Westringia F. at 11:22 AM on March 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

Texas Observer: What Happens If Mom and Dad Get Deported?: After the five-day operation by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) in early February, which resulted in 680 arrests outside schools, homes and grocery stores across the country, undocumented parents have begun to assign legal caretakers for their children. Power of attorney forms, as they’re called, are not new, but in the past month demand has skyrocketed. They’re meant as temporary fixes, a way to limit the chaos after a parent’s arrest or deportation so that children aren’t left completely on their own.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:24 AM on March 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

I have no doubt that there were a bunch of Democrats who were perfectly happy to do the ISPs bidding. There was even one Democrat up on the board as voting for this until they changed their vote (no idea if this was a mistake or someone got to them). But the Democratic whip operation did its job so the party could show a united front, because they knew this was an issue of great importance to a lot of voters, and being known as "the party who doesn't want to sell your internet history to the highest bidder" is a pretty good way to score political points.
posted by zachlipton at 11:25 AM on March 29, 2017 [16 favorites]

Alright then, second question: why aren't we holding them accountable by flooding GAO with reports of Antideficiency Act violations?

Because Congress and the Judiciary are the check on the Executive Branch. All the GAO can do is report to Congress, but if Congressional Republicans have no intention of holding Trump responsible for actual mis-, mal- and non-feasance, it's just wasting GAO's time.
posted by Gelatin at 11:25 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Senate Intelligence Committee briefing starting shortly.
posted by jammer at 11:27 AM on March 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

'Religious left' emerging as U.S. political force in Trump era

-- Since President Donald Trump's election, monthly lectures on social justice at the 600-seat Gothic chapel of New York's Union Theological Seminary have been filled to capacity with crowds three times what they usually draw.

-- "The election of Trump has been a clarion call to progressives in the Protestant and Catholic churches in America to move out of a place of primarily professing progressive policies to really taking action," she said.
posted by futz at 11:27 AM on March 29, 2017 [34 favorites]

Interesting The Upshot (NYT) piece on GA-06: Why Democrats Have a Shot in a Georgia District Dominated by Republicans
posted by Chrysostom at 11:29 AM on March 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

The Antideficiency Act prohibits federal employees from
...
accepting voluntary services for the United States, or employing personal services not authorized by law, except in cases of emergency involving the safety of human life or the protection of property. 31 U.S.C. § 1342.

how is it that the White House is allowed to accept Ivanka Trump's voluntary services?

The answer is right there in your quote. It prohibits "federal employees" from volunteering service. Ivanka is not and has never been a federal employee.

The reason this rule applies to federal employees is that because they are employees and receive wages for their work, it implies that working, even voluntarily, might imply that they are later due wages. This is not the case for Ivanka who does not earn federal wages. She is not a federal employee.
posted by JackFlash at 11:35 AM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

It prohibits Federal Employees (i.e. White House staffers) from accepting voluntary services. From any source, it would seem.
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 11:38 AM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

hmm, from @costareports:

There is buzz among reporters about what's going on at WH, since there were several meetings there last night...
Per a top WH official, those meetings were related to the ongoing investigations, not about staffing.

Meanwhile, the Senate Intelligence Committee is trying to make a case that they're competent and good at this. They're saying that tomorrow's public hearing will focus on Russia's capabilities, what they've done in the past, what they're doing today, and what to expect from them in the future.

As I interpret this press conference, it's subtly trying to make a case that there's no need for an independent investigation because they're not crazy like Nunes. On the bright side, they're at least focused on Russia's actions instead of whining about leaks and wiretapping, even if they're not saying anything about collusion.
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 AM on March 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Jeff Stein in Vox: With Trumpcare dead and Obama gone, progressives are putting Medicare for All back on the table.

"During Obama's term, Democrats were uncomfortable with anything that might look like something other than full-throated support of the Affordable Care Act, and they didn't want to do anything that might undermine the president," said Dan Riffle, Conyers's senior legislative assistant, in an interview. "But many members who weren't on the bill, who have had their phones ringing off the hook, are now expressing interest. It's percolating from the ground up."

Several House Democrats see the same thing happening. "There's more of an appetite for an alternative now," Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA), a sponsor of Conyers's bill, told me. "Democrats have a new confidence to push for a single-payer system. The momentum is building."

Added Rep. Joaquín Castro (D-TX) in an interview: "There is a discussion now that didn't exist a few years ago about how to achieve universal coverage for people."

Of course, Conyers’s single-payer Medicare for All bill is dead on arrival with the Republicans who currently control Congress. But left-wing activists and progressives on the Hill say they’ve made getting the Democratic Party to support a single-payer health care system one of their key priorities — both because they believe it will help the party present a more persuasive alternative to Republicans in the next election, and to lay the legislative groundwork for what they'll enact once they retake the majority.

posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:40 AM on March 29, 2017 [46 favorites]

It prohibits Federal Employees (i.e. White House staffers) from accepting voluntary services.

Ah, yes. My mistake.
posted by JackFlash at 11:40 AM on March 29, 2017

How to lose friends and 'exfoliate' people — Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, is caught between 2 worlds, and his friends are cutting ties

Jared has been losing his liberal New York friends, which he's described as "exfoliat[ing]" people. Boo hoo.
posted by zachlipton at 11:44 AM on March 29, 2017 [25 favorites]

I've got faith that the investigation in the Senate Intelligence Committee is working so far. Warner would be raising red flags in this press conference if that wasn't true. It's still early, but it doesn't seem to be completely broken like the House investigation.
posted by diogenes at 11:45 AM on March 29, 2017

Assuming we get out of this it seems like theres room for massive plugging of loopholes regarding the administration, the Presidents business and the Presidents family when they cross over in cases like this.
posted by Artw at 11:46 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Senator Richard Burr: "We are willing to issue subpoenas."

Oh please oh please oh please.
posted by Mothlight at 11:47 AM on March 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

No investigation led by a Republican is credible. Not even in the Senate. No, not even John McCain. It has to be an independent commission chaired by a non-elected authority, like the 9/11 commission, but delegated full subpoena power of Congress, just like for 9/11.

Watergate was chaired by a Democrat. No Republican led investigation into the election or Trump can be impartial or even credible. They've already proved that over and over.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:48 AM on March 29, 2017 [41 favorites]

First Ladies don't get paid, do they? There seems to be a little bit of leeway for members of the President's household/immediate family, even though some of them have done real policy work over the years.

Here's a paper [pdf] that examines the interaction of the anti-nepotism laws, the anti-deficiency act, and the role of the first lady.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:48 AM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Warner really seems to trust Burr. That's a good thing.
posted by diogenes at 11:49 AM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

soren_lorensen: The House Judiciary Committee trying to get Trump's taxes? I think? Is now Louie Gohmert yammering about Killary! Uranium!!!!

Just in case anyone is wondering who the current sitting President is, it is not Hillary Clinton.

Crazy thought: could we just do some person swap trick when a Republican is yammering away about Hillary again, and swap her for Trump? She can start imitating him for a while, then ease into being herself. Bonus points if we can do that same trick in the House and Senate enough so that the Dems get control.

GOP gets to be mad about Hillary and the Democrats again, and everyone can live a fear-free life, where we're not worried about coal pollution in the water or ICE raids at elementary schools. Well, except overt racists, sexists, homophobes, xenophobes and other other deplorables who thought they were safe to hate openly and publicly.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:50 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trusting a Republican is NEVER a good thing.
posted by Artw at 11:51 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

No Republican led investigation into the election or Trump can be impartial or even credible.

This is probably true, but it's not yet demonstrably true in the Senate. Do you trust Warner to tell us if the Senate investigation is tainted? I think I do.
posted by diogenes at 11:51 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

snakes are venomous, not poisonous

In a truly just Metafilter, the mods would have a button so that they could easily reassign admittedly pedantic and offtopic but interesting corrections such as this to Stannis Baratheon.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:53 AM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trusting a Republican is NEVER a good thing.

I know it's unlikely that a Republican puts country over party, but it's not impossible.
posted by diogenes at 11:53 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Do you trust Warner to tell us if the Senate investigation is tainted? I think I do.

RIght, but you've already established him as a fool.

This will be a brief snowjob with Democrats participating.
posted by Artw at 11:53 AM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Burr says that WH has not blocked Sally Yates from testifying before them -- they have not decided yet when to bring her before committee
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:54 AM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Jared has been losing his liberal New York friends, which he's described as "exfoliat[ing]" people. Boo hoo.

Yes I'm sure Ivanka never exfoliates.
posted by emjaybee at 11:54 AM on March 29, 2017

Yeah, I don't know how much of it is an act for public, but it looks like Burr and Warner are at least trying to come out with a unified front of "we are Serious People taking Serious Things seriously". Of note for those not listening: 7 professional staff are going through "thousands" of documents; have access to material previously restricted to the Gang of Eight; have reached out to about 20 people to testify and have (IIRC) 5 currently scheduled of which Kushner is the first; they aren't going to comment on the House investigation because those questions should be taken to the House.
posted by jammer at 11:54 AM on March 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

Warner really seems to trust Burr. That's a good thing.

To be fair, this is the smart play for any sane Republican. Senators have long careers, and they don't benefit from gerrymandering. Also, Burr is a senator from North Carolina. That's a formerly red state that's now solidly purple (which is why the state legislature lost its mind recently ...fear).

Trump has already imploded his popularity, it's clear he's completely corrupt, and it's only a matter of time before he goes down for something.

Burr has strong incentives to play this straight.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:56 AM on March 29, 2017 [19 favorites]

That article about Kushner is such a classic picture of someone who completely agrees with the Trumpists and is just peeved about having to pay a social cost for it.

"You seem like a good person," he [Cerelli, who asked to give Kushner seed money he'd invested in C's company back] said. "A smart person. I am not saying that you are a bad person or that the way you act is wrong. I am saying that I don't agree with it, and me, [my cofounder], our team, and our investors ... would like to give you your money back."

Kushner listened until Cerilli was finished. He told him that the call came as a shock — and that it was "cowardly."

Then, according to Cerilli's notes of the call, Kushner unleashed.

He conveyed that the process of campaigning with Trump had "allowed him to exfoliate" people he once considered friends. "I am seeing which friendships break in the wind," he said, according to the document.

"We live in a world and time that are interesting," he added. "There are a lot of issues that need to be discussed."

He told Cerilli that he was doing what he thought was right, with "complicated facets," and that he was "navigating it appropriately."

Cerilli's decision to distance himself, Kushner said, was a "childish thing." He questioned Cerilli's character, describing his messaging as "somewhere between incredibly immature and incredibly intolerant." The decision to oust Kushner seemed emotional, not based on facts. He questioned whether Cerilli knew about his actual involvement in Trump's campaign or where he stood on key issues.
posted by winna at 11:57 AM on March 29, 2017 [26 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen: Texas Observer: What Happens If Mom and Dad Get Deported?

A Portable Panic Button for Immigrants Swept Up in Raids (Wired article about Notifica, an app you can set up to send out information at the push of a virtual button). Other families have three-ring binders of information and documentation, ready just in case of the worst.

This is all so tragic and unnecessary.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:57 AM on March 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

Exfoliat sounds like some kind of Harry Potter spell

Like Hermione flays you or something
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:58 AM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Trump or Not Twitterbot "run[s] Donald Trump's tweets through a natural-language processor and try to figure out if he's actually writing them."

As a programmer I am very uncomfortable with being made to feel pity for an algorithm.

I wouldn't think we'll need to shell out too much to get Congressional browsing histories. Given they're not now regulated, and given the ISPs' notable lack of nous in matters technical, it won't be long before those plump ol' databases leak all over the shop.

We may not even need to pay for them. The other part of the reg this rolls back is requirements for precautions to safeguard customer data. We've seen over and over again these last decades that companies won't prioritize security because it's not costly when they fuck up. So be sure that the ISPs will half-ass their work here if there's no risk to failing.
posted by phearlez at 11:58 AM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

Exfoliat sounds like some kind of Harry Potter spell

Like Hermione flays you or something

"Bored now."
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:00 PM on March 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

He conveyed that the process of campaigning with Trump had "allowed him to exfoliate" people he once considered friends. "I am seeing which friendships break in the wind," he said, according to the document.

Exfoliate. Like... like the Ped Egg? EVAN? Has this whole thing been an inside job?
posted by Mayor West at 12:00 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Imagine the relief of being someone Kushner has decided he is friends with when he fucks off in a huff.
posted by Artw at 12:01 PM on March 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

Jared has been losing his liberal New York friends

That article is really interesting!. Kushner is called to task and

Cerilli's decision to distance himself, Kushner said, was a "childish thing." He questioned Cerilli's character, describing his messaging as "somewhere between incredibly immature and incredibly intolerant." The decision to oust Kushner seemed emotional, not based on facts. He questioned whether Cerilli knew about his actual involvement in Trump's campaign or where he stood on key issues.

"You clearly don't have the depth to take on a big challenge when something like this bothers you," Kushner said, "and so clearly your team doesn't either."
posted by armacy at 12:02 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

To be fair, this is the smart play for any sane Republican ...Burr has strong incentives to play this straight.

Which is why Nunes' behavior is so mind-bogglingly stupid, he tied himself willingly to a ship that is already sinking, when he could have used his position to launch himself into a real political player in the post-Trump era.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:03 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

We may not even need to pay for them. The other part of the reg this rolls back is requirements for precautions to safeguard customer data. We've seen over and over again these last decades that companies won't prioritize security because it's not costly when they fuck up. So be sure that the ISPs will half-ass their work here if there's no risk to failing.

It's a hell of a pyrrhic victory, but you can be certain that data breaches from ISPs will stop as soon as the first Congressional hearings against Comcast get launched in the wake of an Oklahoma MOC being outed via his browser history.
posted by Mayor West at 12:03 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

That article about Kushner is such a classic picture of someone who completely agrees with the Trumpists and is just peeved about having to pay a social cost for it.

Or maybe someone who simply has no moral or ethical compass whatsoever. He describes someone making a decision based on moral concern over money as "childish," "immature," "emotional," describes someone as lacking depth if they are bothered by his decision to work to advance an agenda they disagree with. Sounds more like someone who believes nothing to me.
posted by phearlez at 12:04 PM on March 29, 2017 [48 favorites]

It's a hell of a pyrrhic victory, but you can be certain that data breaches from ISPs will stop as soon as the first Congressional hearings against Comcast get launched in the wake of an Oklahoma MOC being outed via his browser history.

They'll just plug a narrow hole, like they did back when someone got a congresscritter's video rental history. Won't stop the marketing and data warehousing.
posted by phearlez at 12:06 PM on March 29, 2017

Yeah, that article paints a picture of an amoral person who found it socially expedient to play like he had middle of the road liberal beliefs until suddenly it wasn't any more and see ya! Now he's free to really be who he always was inside and don't you dare stand in the way of his becoming.

Fucking chilling.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:08 PM on March 29, 2017 [50 favorites]

Sounds like any privileged man trying to win an argument to me: everything said against him is "childish," "immature," and "emotional". Casting oneself as the only rational agent is a time-honored tradition of abusive masculinity.
posted by lydhre at 12:08 PM on March 29, 2017 [86 favorites]

I wonder how many times Jared Kushner has said "Nothing personal, it's just business" when it was someone else getting scrod.
posted by Etrigan at 12:09 PM on March 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

Btw, the "exfoliation" thing isn't new from Jared. Here he is back in November:

And that seems to reflect how Kushner feels about friends upset by his role in electing someone who offends their values, to the point where, before the election, several wrote to him in fits of pique. "I call it an exfoliation. Anyone who was willing to change a friendship or not do business because of who somebody supports in politics is not somebody who has a lot of character.

"People are very fickle," he adds. "You have to find what you believe in, challenge your truths. And if you believe in something, even if it's unpopular, you have to push with it."

It's telling that he views the person taking the moral stand as the one lacking character. It really does fit with him not having any moral compass at all.
posted by zachlipton at 12:09 PM on March 29, 2017 [42 favorites]

So, our threads having gone from citing Hamilton to trusting Burr.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:10 PM on March 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

Those Kushner quotes make my skin crawl.
posted by BeginAgain at 12:11 PM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

Do you trust Warner to tell us if the Senate investigation is tainted? I think I do.

RIght, but you've already established him as a fool.

This will be a brief snowjob with Democrats participating.

Not as much as I would trust a non-elected appointment of an independent commission not chaired by elected Republican, no.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:13 PM on March 29, 2017

The threads were long enough for both Hamilton and he.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:13 PM on March 29, 2017 [23 favorites]

Anyone who was willing to change a friendship or not do business because of who somebody supports in politics is not somebody who has a lot of character.

Good lord.

Dear all friends of mine who ever read this,

Please stop being friends and doing business with me if I ever start openly endorsing ACTUAL FUCKING NAZIS.

Yours Cordially,
posted by Mayor West at 12:14 PM on March 29, 2017 [85 favorites]

Those Kushner quotes make my skin crawl.

Have you tried exfoliating?
posted by Servo5678 at 12:17 PM on March 29, 2017 [68 favorites]

I bet he gets really arsey if anyone calls him a Nazi.

The Nazi fuck.
posted by Artw at 12:17 PM on March 29, 2017 [21 favorites]

I would really like to exfoliate all of these motherfuckers.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:17 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Kushner appears to see friendships as a business transaction. Any friends he's lost are better off without him.
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:18 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

I don't trust Burr, but I think the Senate committee is at least going to focus on Russian actions as a major threat to national security, which is more than I can say for the House, which colludes with the White House and keeps whining about leaks and a tapp. Burr also outright said that "the Russians are actively involved in the French election," which is a sign he's taking this seriously. I don't have faith their investigation is going to take down the President or even any of his associates, and I still very much think we need an independent commission, but I think Russia's actions need to be examined one way or another, and I think the Senate committee is going to keep doing that.

Pinning down exactly what Russia did and having it endorsed by a bipartisan committee is going to delegitimize the President all on its own, and it's the first step toward making a case for collusion.

Anyway, this just popped up on my Twitter, and it's highly relevant: Fun fact: Sen. Richard Burr is the 12th cousin of Aaron Burr (who killed A. Hamilton.)
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 PM on March 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

or where he stood on key issues.

The Trump talent for lying extends to Trumps-in-law it appears, because, Jared, we know **EXACTLY** where you stand on the only issue that matters today: you stand with Trump. There's really no need or room for nuance here. You either stand with America, or you stand with Trump. And you, Mr. Kushner, chose to stand with Trump.

I don't really care if you agree with 90% of his agenda, or 10% of his agenda, or even just 1%, you decided that whatever it was you agreed with Trump about was worth taking the rest too.

And that's all I really need to know about you, or anyone else. You weighed whatever it was you wanted against "having Donald J. Trump as President" and you decided the trade off was worth it. That, automatically, makes you a bad person and you should feel bad.

leotrotsky Which is why Nunes' behavior is so mind-bogglingly stupid, he tied himself willingly to a ship that is already sinking, when he could have used his position to launch himself into a real political player in the post-Trump era.

Either that or he has good reason to think there won't be a post-Trump era, reason to think that the appearance of a sinking ship is false and that Trump will weather this.

I'm not saying he's right, but I am continuing (cake to the side) with my pessimism. We all seem to be taking for granted the idea that something will be bringing Trump down, and I'm not at all convinced that's the case. Through the whole primary we were all convinced that Trump was a has been, also ran, ass clown with no chance of victory, and then he won.

Through the whole election we were all convinced that Trump was such an obvious, blatant, moron and ass clown that Clinton would win in a landslide. We wrote that while Trump the candidate was doing bad things the silver lining was that he represented the absolute worst candidate the Republicans could offer so at least it guaranteed Clinton's election. And then he won.

I'm pretty sure a lot of our current jubilation about the various Trump scandals is whistling past the graveyard, we want to believe them because it means (please, please) our national nightmare will end before 2020.

But I remember how people were sure Iran-Contra would break Reagan, and that was with a Democratic Congress pushing things.

I'm not at all sure that Nunes is being stupid here. I hope you're right, but I'm not at all convinced that you are.
posted by sotonohito at 12:29 PM on March 29, 2017 [21 favorites]

Exxon to Trump: Don't ditch Paris climate change deal. Exxon, unlike the President, actually admits climate change exists and supports the Paris Agreement.
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on March 29, 2017 [56 favorites]

I wonder what Sleepy Tillerson thinks to that.

Assuming someone woke him up.
posted by Artw at 12:33 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

You know how to tell when you are the worst possible kind of human being? When a fucking oil company tells you to be nicer to the environment.
posted by valkane at 12:38 PM on March 29, 2017 [147 favorites]

zachlipton: "Anyway, this just popped up on my Twitter, and it's highly relevant: Fun fact: Sen. Richard Burr is the 12th cousin of Aaron Burr (who killed A. Hamilton.)"

That's not how cousins work. To be a 12th cousins with no removals, the two Burrs would have to be in the same generation. Perhaps Richard is the 1st cousing 12 times removed from Aaron.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:44 PM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

We're going to need to see Richard's tax returns and Internet browsing history to determine exactly how many cousin removals he is away from Aaron Burr.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:49 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Erasing LGBTQ People from the 2020 Census Isn't Just Wrong, It's Life-Threatening: How will we know the extent to which social services (things like educational opportunities, food stamps, medical care and housing) are needed for at-risk LGBTQ populations and people living with or at risk for HIV if we don’t have the data? How will we be able to understand how many LGBTQ people are living in this country and experiencing systemic financial and social oppressions that disadvantage them in the health care system, lead to elevated rates of discrimination in seeking or maintaining employment and are the root cause of poverty and homelessness?

And although we know from Williams Institute studies that LGBTQ people are disproportionately affected by domestic and other violence, poverty and homelessness, and suffer from high rates of physical and mental illness, how will we be able to obtain a complete picture of the needs the LGBTQ community and everyone living with HIV without the full and accurate population and demographic data available through census?

Answer: We won’t.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:57 PM on March 29, 2017 [43 favorites]

Sounds like any privileged man trying to win an argument to me: everything said against him is "childish," "immature,"

The irony of that corrupt hell spawn of Ritchie Rich and a giant pumpkin gone rotten throwing the word "immature" at anybody else is almost so toxic all by itself as to violate "obsolete" Geneva conventions on chemical warfare.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:59 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Christina Wilkie is covering Trump at the Women's Empowerment event right now.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:59 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

We'll know if the Senate investigation is bullshit as soon as they start the interviews. If the witnesses aren't put under oath, then it's bullshit. Supposedly Kushner is up first.
posted by ryanrs at 1:00 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

I thought Aaron Burr was Ironsides?
posted by yoga at 1:03 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

"Anyone who was willing to change a friendship or not do business because of who somebody supports in politics is not somebody who has a lot of character.

"People are very fickle," he adds. "You have to find what you believe in, challenge your truths. And if you believe in something, even if it's unpopular, you have to push with it."

I am just amazed at the lack of awareness Kuchner must posses in order to follow that first statement immediately with the second. Though I guess it could also be explained by the privileged position held by people who view politics as purely some sort of sporting contest rather than a critically important thing that determines who lives and dies.
posted by phearlez at 1:05 PM on March 29, 2017 [19 favorites]

Trump Administration’s Women’s Rights Lip Service Turns Irony Up To 11

First Lady Melania Trump presented courage awards today to women fighting globally for a free press, for environmental rights, and for the right to protest. Cue the awkwardness.
posted by futz at 1:10 PM on March 29, 2017 [37 favorites]

Think you can protect your privacy from internet providers without FCC rules? Good luck.

As Trump Complains About Alleged Surveillance, Republicans Gut Internet Privacy Rules
posted by homunculus at 1:15 PM on March 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

Bernard Marks, 90, survivor of Auschwitz & Dachau, confronts ICE director Thomas Homan and Sacramento Sheriff Scott Jones at public forum. (video)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:15 PM on March 29, 2017 [42 favorites]

Bank Kushner met with paid legal tab for Russian intelligence agent [CNN; autoplay]

As federal prosecutors in New York prepared their case against a man accused of covertly working for Russian intelligence two years ago, they began raising questions about an unidentified "third party" paying the defendant's legal bills.

The defendant's benefactor turned out to be VneshEconomBank, the same financial institution at the center of a recent controversy over its chairman's meeting with Jared Kushner, President Donald Trump's son-in-law and one of his top White House advisers. [...]

Buryakov pleaded guilty in March 2016 to conspiring to act as an unregistered agent of the Russian Federation in the US. He was sentenced to two and half years in federal prison.

Prosecutors said Buryakov used his cover as a bank employee to work for Russia's SVR, the country's version of the CIA.

posted by melissasaurus at 1:18 PM on March 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

I am just amazed at the lack of awareness Kuchner must posses in order to follow that first statement immediately with the second.

My beliefs are sincerely-held and deeply-considered credos. Your beliefs are a fake pose meant only to impress shallow people.

Have I heard this assertion uttered by actual humans in real life? Yes, yes I have.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:20 PM on March 29, 2017 [16 favorites]

@ktumulty: "Have you heard of Susan B. Anthony?" Trump asks at women's empowerment event.

I'm guessing someone wanted to make sure he didn't pull another Frederick Douglass and this is what they got.
posted by zachlipton at 1:21 PM on March 29, 2017 [19 favorites]

A supervisor at the Energy Department's international climate office told staff this week not to use the phrases "climate change," "emissions reduction" or "Paris Agreement" in written memos, briefings or other written communication, sources have told POLITICO.

I would get fired so quick if I worked there, because my immediate reaction would be a resounding FUCK THAT and/or the immediate usage of things like "global environmental alteration," "CO2/methane/vapor abatement," and "French Capital Contract." I might refer to greenhouse gases as "Trump emissions."
posted by Existential Dread at 1:22 PM on March 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

It's not Climate Change, it's Climate Freedom.
posted by bonehead at 1:26 PM on March 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

Beto O'Rourke is running against Ted Cruz in 2018. I know he did the road trip thing, but I had no idea he used to be in a band with Cedric Bixler-Zavala, who was in At the Drive-In and The Mars Volta. O'Rourke is the one in orange in this video.
posted by mcdoublewide at 1:27 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Ivanka is an official federal employee. "Assistant to the president"
posted by Yowser at 1:28 PM on March 29, 2017

may I present to you Rep. Mike Capuano (D-MA07) spittin' fire re: the Republicans rolling back Obama-era internet privacy laws. Someone is not happy that Comcast now knows what size and color underwear he buys over the internet.
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 1:30 PM on March 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

I know it's supposed to be an "very serious official looking statement", but Ivanka referring to herself advising the president rather than advising her father just seems like another layer of weird.
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:33 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

He's said that he doesn't plan to run for re-election.

Doesn't that make him more likely to do the right thing rather than less?
posted by diogenes at 1:36 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

hahahahahahaah

as another one of his constituents, let me say hahahahahahahahahahhah
posted by winna at 1:37 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ms. Trump’s title will be special assistant to the president.

Sound a lot better than Holder of the Xanax
posted by PenDevil at 1:37 PM on March 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

Anyone who was willing to change a friendship or not do business because of who somebody supports in politics is not somebody who has a lot of character.

What a strange sentiment. It seems so obvious that the exact opposite is true.
posted by diogenes at 1:39 PM on March 29, 2017 [19 favorites]

Huh. I wonder how to game out Ivanka's new role in the event of the (now seemingly inevitable) govt. shutdown.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:40 PM on March 29, 2017

Question for those who think Warner is carrying water for Trump by pretending that the Senate investigation is working when it isn't:

What is Warner's motivation?
posted by diogenes at 1:41 PM on March 29, 2017

Ivanka referring to herself advising the president rather than advising her father just seems like another layer of weird

What, why? She's going to be telling him what countries to bomb in his capacity as president, not dad. what's really weird is giving her this title instead of "Special Anima" or "Special Assistant: Like About as Qualified as a Senior Advisor, but for Girls." wouldn't want to make her sound too lofty for her tier. she's just some clothing company owner, not a high-level political operative like a Jared Kushner, say.

actually I bet Trump didn't do the five second wikipedia investigation I just did and so doesn't know a special assistant is actually less special and senior than a regular old plain assistant. it does sound special, though.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:43 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

What is Warner's motivation?

Bipartisanship fetish - wants to normalise trump so he can get back to chumming around with Republicans like they aren't out to destroy America.
posted by Artw at 1:45 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

What a strange sentiment. It seems so obvious that the exact opposite is true.

As long as you pretend that politics is about principled disagreements between well-intentioned people with opposing philosophies, rather than latter-day Nazis trying to crush all who oppose them, it sounds a lot better.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:46 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Honestly give half the dems and most of the media a shot and they'd normalise Trump in a second, he just fucks it up for them by being so notably a trashfire all of the fucking time.
posted by Artw at 1:47 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Can someone give a reasoned response to why we are okay with facebook,google et al mining all sorts of personal information for the benefit of advertisers but its not okay with the ISP's? Whats the difference? I'm not crazy about any of it but I cant see the difference. thanks.

Because you can choose not to use Facebook, Google, et al if you want.

Internet providers are either a monopoly, a duopoly, or an oligopoly at best. You can't really go elsewhere.
posted by Talez at 1:48 PM on March 29, 2017 [37 favorites]

Can someone give a reasoned response to why we are okay with facebook,google et al mining all sorts of personal information for the benefit of advertisers (...)

Are we okay with that? Because I'm not. I think people are mostly not okay with it but willing to ignore it out of convenience.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:49 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

Because you can choose to just not use Facebook, or Twitter or whatever (which I did until those platforms--god help us--became important political organizing tools), but the ISP is the central gateway.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:49 PM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

Also, your ISP sees ALL of your traffic, not just what comes through tracking cookies and suchlike. It is far, far more invasive and the profile they can build of you / your family is exhaustive.
posted by dragstroke at 1:50 PM on March 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

I'm not at all sure that Nunes is being stupid here.

It's hard for me to tell anymore, too. Because the administration and associated sycophants have done so many overtly stupid things and suffered no consequences to date, that there must be more savvy people in the wings who can deduce that "playing stupid"—even extremely stupid—may in fact be an advantageous approach, depending on circumstances.

I guess, in the end, the real problem is less about determining motive, and more about the fact that Real Stupid gets virtually no meaningful check at this point.
posted by Brak at 1:50 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Bipartisanship fetish - wants to normalise trump so he can get back to chumming around with Republicans like they aren't out to destroy America.

Alternatively, Bipartisanship fetish - wants to destroy Trump so he can get back to chumming around with Republicans who might not actually want to destroy America.

Let me dream for a few minutes at least...
posted by mikelieman at 1:51 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Anyone who was willing to change a friendship or not do business because of who somebody supports in politics is not somebody who has a lot of character.

I somewhat agree with this statement. People should be able to stay friends and work alongside and create businesses regardless of their political beliefs (assuming those beliefs don't affect the business). The thing is, opposing Trump isn't just about his political beliefs. It's about his racist statements, and his misogynistic statements and actions, and his attack on someone disabled, among other direct affronts. If Jared considers those "political beliefs" that he supports, rather than actions and opinions that someone politically aligned with Trump can easily and morally repudiate, then he either doesn't understand that this is abnormal, or he is 100% a horrible person.

To me, that's the difference. Making this about "politics" is insulting to Republicans. Based on their recent actions an overwhelming number of them deserve it, but I don't believe that it's a stated aim of the Republican party. Yet. But I will say the more of them echo sentiments like that, the more I can see it as a tacit acceptance that yeah, if being a good Republican means overtly embracing all that ugliness now, they're in. Sigh.
posted by Mchelly at 1:51 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Pony request: Can someone do another FPP about the internet privacy nastiness? I'd also like to talk about it but seems tangential here.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:51 PM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

So here's a bunch of background info on FBI Russian investigations from whowhatwhy re: why the FBI can't talk, which involves a longer running investigation into Trump Tower and the Russian mob and uh, stuff. I hope someone with more knowledge can read it and then let us know whether there is any agency or institution that can actually freaking do something. Or are we stuck with investigations that will drag on for months and months while all the treason just goes on and on?
posted by Glinn at 1:52 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

JK sounds like someone who somewhere, sometime once half-heard the E.M. Forster quote about how if it came to a choice between betraying his country and betraying his friend, he hoped he would have the guts to betray his country. but the thing is that quote is only powerful if you are a person for whom betraying your country would take some kind of courage or guts. if you are a Jared Kushner and betraying your country is about like going to the kitchen to get a coke, there is nothing really to grandstand or brag about in it. you don't sacrifice anything because you had nothing inside you to sacrifice.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:55 PM on March 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump's political beliefs are racist, misogynistic, ableist and utterly abhorrent on every level. If a belief has anything at all to do with the enaction, enforcement or repeal of a law or statute, it's political. We don't get to say that the marginal tax rate is political, but ICE raids somehow aren't. They both are.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:58 PM on March 29, 2017 [19 favorites]

If Jared considers those "political beliefs" that he supports, rather than actions and opinions that someone politically aligned with Trump can easily and morally repudiate, then he either doesn't understand that this is abnormal, or he is 100% a horrible person.

They are, though. 20 years ago racist fearmongering to fuel the war on drugs was a political belief. 50 years ago, segregation was a political disagreement. 150 years ago, chattel slavery. Anything politicians disagree about is a political debate.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:00 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Or are we stuck with investigations that will drag on for months and months while all the treason just goes on and on?

I don't know if the media and the public will put enough pressure on them to go on that long.

They certainly won't do any active investigation and the actual finding will be a shrug and a whaddayagoingtodo?
posted by Artw at 2:00 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump's ~~political~~ beliefs are racist, misogynistic, ableist and utterly abhorrent on every level.

FTFY. Trump has absolutely no idea what the word politics even means, unless it's a way to manipulate someone so that he can get more money for himself.
posted by Melismata at 2:00 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

"I bet they pay her in bushels of kittens (which she then unhinges her jaw and eats)" --posted by angrycat at 3:31 PM on March 29

And here I thought I was the only one who felt like we were living in "V".
posted by cass at 2:01 PM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

I don't know if the media and the public will put enough pressure on them to go on that long.

They certainly won't do any active investigation and the actual finding will be a shrug and a whaddayagoingtodo?

See: Flint Water Crisis.
posted by dinty_moore at 2:02 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Can I say how much I'd like to punch Jared Kushner? Just on general principles?

I mean, I'd never do it. But the idea that a smarmy kid, born with a silver spoon in his mouth and zero government experience, is elevated to a position of Executive power that lies somewhere between President and Secretary of State, just by virtue of being the son-in-law of the Nepotist-in-Chief, and presuming to talk about the morality of politics, smacks so much of corrupt aristocracy that it just makes me want to punch him and the system that has allowed this travesty to happen.

That's all I have to say about that.
posted by darkstar at 2:04 PM on March 29, 2017 [52 favorites]

Basically without using every electoral opportunity between now and 2020 to kick as many Republicans out of office as possible this country is in a deathslide into being fucked forever.
posted by Artw at 2:06 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Politico: After pledging to solve opioid crisis, Trump’s strategy underwhelms

Public health experts question the value of the commission. It was just last November when Surgeon General Vivek Murthy released his office's first-ever report on opioids and addiction, which included tools and recommendations collected from more than a year of research. The CDC also released prescribing guidelines after thorough study.

"These people don’t need another damn commission," said a former Obama administration official who worked to address the opioid crisis and asked not to be named. "We know what we need to do. … It's not rocket science."

Meanwhile, local news in New Hampshire noticed that nobody from New Hampshire was at the White House meeting on opioid abuse, which they're not so thrilled about.
posted by zachlipton at 2:07 PM on March 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

I know there was a shorter link earlier, but here's the whole story on how Rick Perry has lots of time to bitch about a gay guy getting elected student body president at Texas A&M.

Guess trackin' them nukes doesn't really fill up his day.
posted by emjaybee at 2:08 PM on March 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump’s strategy underwhelms is a statement complete in itself.
posted by phearlez at 2:11 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier:

“House Republicans are considering making another run next week at passing the health-care bill they abruptly pulled from the floor in an embarrassing setback to their efforts to repeal Obamacare,” Bloomberg reports.

“Two Republican lawmakers say that leaders are discussing holding a vote, even staying into the weekend if necessary, but it’s unclear what changes would be made to the GOP’s health bill.”

This does not seem like the wisest strategic move.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:15 PM on March 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Vox: It’s official: Ivanka Trump will be a White House staffer

Giving Ivanka Trump a West Wing office might be nepotism. But it’s not illegal nepotism. The Justice Department ruled that federal anti-nepotism laws don’t apply to the president’s choice of White House advisers. [...]

“A President wanting a relative's advice on governmental matters therefore has a choice: to seek that advice on an unofficial, ad hoc basis without conferring the status and imposing the responsibilities that accompany formal White House positions,” the Justice Department’s Daniel Koffsky, a deputy assistant attorney general, wrote, “or to appoint his relative to the White House under title 3 and subject him to substantial restrictions against conflicts of interest.”

In other words: Trump is going to get advice from his relatives anyway, so he might as well get it in a role that puts some ethical restrictions around what they can do.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:16 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Rick Perry on a student government election.

"In its opinion, the Judicial Court admitted that the charges were minor and technical, but, incredibly, chose to uphold the disqualification, with no consideration given to whether the punishment fit the crime," he wrote in the Chronicle. "The desire of the electorate is overturned, and thousands of student votes are disqualified because of free glow sticks that appeared for 11 seconds of a months-long campaign. Apparently, glow sticks merit the same punishment as voter intimidation."

Rick Perry on Cameron Todd Willingham, presented with exculpatory evidence: sorry, court convicted him. Go ahead with the execution! When subsequently presented with evidence of prosecutorial misconduct: nope, no posthumous pardon.

Sing me another song about mismatched weights, Ricky.
posted by phearlez at 2:20 PM on March 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

Giving Ivanka Trump a West Wing office might be nepotism. But it’s not illegal nepotism. The Justice Department ruled that federal anti-nepotism laws don’t apply to the president’s choice of White House advisers.

So if the president does it (or tells the Justice Department to put out a memo saying it's okay to do it), that means it's not illegal? That sounds like a winning argument!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:21 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

appoint his relative to the White House under title 3 and subject him to substantial restrictions against conflicts of interest

my sides
posted by ryanrs at 2:24 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Anyone who was willing to change a friendship or not do business because of who somebody supports in politics is not somebody who has a lot of character.

This is just frank bullshit. Who and what you support politically says something about who you are as a person, what values you hold and how you view living in a society. If you support a garbage person who rolls back environmental protections, is overtly rude to foreign leaders, is blatantly and ruthlessly plundering the country you live, then you probably are a garbage person as well. I don't want to be friends or do business with a garbage person. If you maybe privately disagree with taking health care away from the people you share a country with, or if you're a iittle uncomfortable ending a program that provides meals to poor elderly people in your community, BUT you're gonna go along publicly with a person who is doing these things, then you are a garbage person without any balls.

The policies you support and the people you cast your vote for tell the rest of us if you're generous or smart or brave or selfish and weak and stupid. I am not going to be friends with someone I can't respect.
posted by hollygoheavy at 2:38 PM on March 29, 2017 [51 favorites]

If I had to choose between betraying my friends or my country, I would betray my friends, and they know it, and they know I would expect them to do the same, and that's why we're able to be friends.

Seriously. In this case, "betray my country" means fuck over the poorest and most vulnerable citizens in order to enrich myself and my father-in-law at their expense, and "betray my friends" means turn my corrupt piece of shit father-in-law over to Congress for possible removal from office. Only one of these is a moral act.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:47 PM on March 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

He conveyed that the process of campaigning with Trump had "allowed him to exfoliate" people he once considered friends. "I am seeing which friendships break in the wind," he said, according to the document.

may much wind break in your direction, you pompous ass who likens the loss of friendship with people with some fucking scruples to sloughing off dead skin cells

history will record that you were a piece of shit, Jared. children will learn that you were a piece of shit. they'll name the chapter after your rotten ass father in law but there'll be a little sidebar or footnote to record the fact that you were a garbage person who did shitty things, too
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:50 PM on March 29, 2017 [33 favorites]

If I had to choose between betraying my friends or my country, I would betray my friends, and they know it, and they know I would expect them to do the same, and that's why we're able to be friends.

What nonsense. My friends are better than any country. And mean more to me.
posted by jokeefe at 2:52 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

I wonder if the fact that Jared sees political differences as not a big deal and nothing to get worked up over has anything to do with the fact that, to him, political differences essentially come down to whether he'll pay 15% of his hundreds of millions in taxes or 28% of his hundreds of millions in taxes.

I'm just kidding, I don't wonder. When the only difference to you is being super mega rich or super super mega rich then, yeah, it's just a game.
posted by Justinian at 2:52 PM on March 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

To clarify: context entirely matters here. When Jared Kushner betrays his country to protect his 'friends,' he's helping corrupt kleptocrats steal elections, oppress minorities, and rape the earth, all in the name of enriching himself and his cronies. For the vast majority of us, protecting our friends means noncompliance with criminal executives orders, protest, and fighting this thievery of our country's future.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:59 PM on March 29, 2017 [26 favorites]

Dude would betray either for a boiled sweet.
posted by Artw at 3:02 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

Rick Perry on Cameron Todd Willingham, presented with exculpatory evidence: sorry, court convicted him. Go ahead with the execution! When subsequently presented with evidence of prosecutorial misconduct: nope, no posthumous pardon.

To be fair, when he gave the thumbs up to execute an innocent man he was blinded by bloodlust.
posted by Talez at 3:06 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Meanwhile, over the weekend the World Palindrome Championship (which I participated in) was dominated by anti-Trump palindromes, including 4 of the top 6 in the final round.

Mike Maguire managed the astounding feat of reversing "Trump sucks", if only by name-checking an obscure retired Congressman (John Murtha):

"Ah, Trump sucks! Irate groper. Prison? Ah, Trump is so gross. Old ass. Sad! Loss or gossip, Murtha? No sir, prep or get a risk cusp, Murtha!"

He also had a nice dialogue:
"Don?" "Aye?"
"Buoy peer care?" "No."
"Ballot fixes?" Nod.
"Don, bar an Arab?" Nod.
"Don, sex if toll?" A boner.
"A creep you be, ya?" Nod.

Lori Wike has the highest scored effort in the final round, though she lost by the smallest possible margin to Australian Martin Clear.

Dastard stuns? I nodded, "Nah, Lil Handed Don is nuts!" Drat! SAD

(Clear and I had less compelling efforts on the prez.)
posted by msalt at 3:09 PM on March 29, 2017 [72 favorites]

The press should wait a couple of weeks and then ask him who Susan B. Anthony is.
posted by Artw at 3:12 PM on March 29, 2017 [16 favorites]

"more and more"

трамп is making Bush 2 look like a super-genius
posted by lineofsight at 3:12 PM on March 29, 2017

Business Insider: There's only one way to end the opioid epidemic, and the White House isn't talking about it

Sean Spicer, blamed the crisis on "cheap heroin" flooding the market, and he credited President Donald Trump with already taking action against drug cartels. He framed the battle against the epidemic as one for the Drug Enforcement Administration and law enforcement.

If that's what the White House is focused on, it has the situation all wrong.

The problem here isn't with drug cartels; the problem is big pharma and its multidecade campaign to normalize the prescription and sale of highly addictive opiate pain medication. It's usually only after prescriptions for this medication run out, or become too expensive, when addicts turn to cheap heroin.

Of course this WH is going to do jack shit-- because it is hard and it is nuanced and it is complicated and he would have a real uphill battle taking on Big Pharma. Posturing and talking about cracking down on drug cartels is easy.

I was listening to a podcast about how military spending does not trickle down to the troops. We spend billions on fighter jets but when it comes to boots or bootlaces there is very little money and the troops get shortchanged. The real life example given was a unit that had to be checked out on practice with grenade launchers. The trucks that would normally take the troops to the practice range were all broken down and no spare parts were available so they had to walk to the range-- cutting into practice time. Also there wasn't enough practice ammo and the sights on the launchers fell off when they were used. Not everyone got enough practice time in but there was pressure to check everyone off because they were about to ship out. So by cutting corners, the military was investing millions in weapons but not making sure they would be used properly.

While I was listening I kept thinking, "Too bad we don't have a Commander-in-Chief who would take an interest in such things and figure out a way to make sure the military spending was re-figured so that it trickled down to where it was needed." Because that is the state of affairs in America today-- we have an absolutely useless buffoon in the White House who doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself and his businesses and his revenge plans and can barely bring himself to spend more than a few hours a day, Monday through Thursday doing his job.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:14 PM on March 29, 2017 [16 favorites]

We used to talk about Trump's Mirror, but I want to take a step back.

There's this weird conspiracy theory about the world being controlled by "lizard people". Now, I'm not saying that we should necessarily buy into this, but:

Remember Trump saying "You knew I was a snake when you took me in? [real]
Jared talking about his desire to shed his skin? [real]
Spicer scarfing down a bucket of kittens? [fake]

I'm not the only one wondering about this. Here's Charles Pierce, from November last year: ‘The Strategy For Draining the Swamp Is To Put All The Snakes In Charge’

It's all starting to add up, guys.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:15 PM on March 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

Have you heard of Susan B. Anthony? I’m shocked that you’ve heard of her —

SHE WAS ON A COIN YOU ADDLED MOTHERFUCKER
posted by palomar at 3:15 PM on March 29, 2017 [50 favorites]

Like he's ever handled coins.
posted by Artw at 3:17 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H. L. Mencken
posted by entropicamericana at 3:19 PM on March 29, 2017 [52 favorites]

Have you heard of Susan B. Anthony? I’m shocked that you’ve heard of her —

To be fair, and I really don't want to be, he adopts a sarcastic tone when you watch it on the video. The entire thing is still awful though, and is pretty much a middle school level overview of women's history in US politics.
posted by zachlipton at 3:19 PM on March 29, 2017

The press should wait a couple of weeks and then ask him who Susan B. Anthony is.

She's the proof of his voter fraud claims, she rose from the dead and voted several hundred times.
posted by peeedro at 3:19 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

If I had to choose between betraying my friends or my country, I would betray my friends, and they know it, and they know I would expect them to do the same, and that’s why we're able to be friends.

What nonsense. My friends are better than any country. And mean more to me.

This conversation is, I think, easy for many of us to have because it’s mostly hypothetical, in practical terms has left us all with a lot of flex, and inverts itself on itself about a dozen ways to sunday. Heck, I can’t stand to have people with different opinions in my Facebook feed, so I’m pretty sure I’ll be able to define whatever action I take in such circumstance in either self-righteous or weasely terms so that I don’t feel bad about the decision.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:20 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Susan BEEEEEEEEEEEEEES Anthony, rise from your grave and take your swarmy revenge on this clown
posted by Existential Dread at 3:21 PM on March 29, 2017 [35 favorites]

reposting the susan b. anthony quote that the giant thread + my ipad ate:

“Since the very beginning, women have driven, and I mean, each generation of Americans, towards a more free and more prosperous future,” Trump said. “These patriots are women like the legendary Abigail Adams, right? Who, during the founding, urged her husband to remember the rights of women. She was very much a pioneer in that way. We’ve been blessed with courageous heroes like Harriet Tubman who escaped slavery. And went on to deliver hundreds of others to freedom, first in the underground railroad and then as a spy for the union army. She was very, very courageous, believe me. Around we’ve had leaders like Susan B. Anthony. Have you heard of Susan B. Anthony? I’m shocked that you’ve heard of her — who dreamed of a much more fair and equal future and an America where women themselves as she said helped to make laws and elect the lawmakers, and that’s what’s happening more and more.”

(emphasis mine)
posted by murphy slaw at 3:26 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

The entire thing is still awful though, and is pretty much a middle school level overview of women's history in US politics.

This White House has no interest in women and women's rights or the history of women's rights therefore they don't have anyone qualified to write a speech on that topic. This garbage was googled or wiki-ed by whoever was available to write up a 5 minute speech and because Trump himself knows nothing about the topic he didn't re-write it or make any suggestions. Can you imagine if this was written for Obama? It would be shredded into bits and whoever wrote it fired and then Obama would go out and wing it and give a passionate speech about much women have contributed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:27 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Well it looks like someone had the same idea as me to buy the entire browsing history of Congress if this Internet privacy demolition shit passes.
posted by Talez at 3:34 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

FBI Director James Comey attempted to go public as early as the summer of 2016 with information on Russia’s campaign to influence the U.S. presidential election, but Obama administration officials blocked him from doing so
posted by Freon at 3:35 PM on March 29, 2017 [16 favorites]

Just for the historical record, here are the headlines on the NYT website right now:

* Senate Panel Promises Full Investigation of Russia Ties
* Trump’s Move on Coal Won’t Halt the Rise of Its Rivals
* U.S. Cedes Lead on Climate to China
* Christie Allies Get Prison Terms in Bridge Case
* In Shift, Ivanka Trump Will Become a Federal Employee
* Chinese Firm Ends Talks With Kushners on New York Tower
* Everyday People Become Plaintiffs in Trump Travel Ban

And then,
* Britain Takes Decisive Step Toward Leaving E.U. in 2019
* How America Fails Black Girls

It's not just me (or you), it really is a bizarre moment in time, when reality seems unmoored from sanity. Russia! China! Coal! Bridgegate! Brexit! It's all happening at once.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:39 PM on March 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

No, You Can't Buy Congress's Internet Data, Or Anyone Else's

They forgot the "yet".

If someone comes up to AT&T with a dump truck of money for the history of users and there's no FCC rule preventing it you really think they're going to go "we don't want your dump truck of money"?

Fuck no. They're going to take the dump truck of money and give you data. This is why there's a rule stopping it.
posted by Talez at 3:40 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Artw: Like he's ever handled coins.

I'd believe that because of the alleged germophobe thing.

A friend interned for a fairly famous billionaire. He said the billionaire never bothered to put coins in parking meters. It wasn't worth his time to carry coins. He'd just hand the parking ticket to his assistant to get paid. (Supposedly he'd never park in disabled parking spots or fire lanes, just metered spots.)

Rich people - they're just like us! Ugh.
posted by bluecore at 3:41 PM on March 29, 2017

Andy Slavitt (ran Medicare under Obama) says that the GOP offer to work on health care during the recess is a "way out" for their members to avoid town halls.
posted by zachlipton at 3:43 PM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

Rich people - they're just like us! Ugh.

I mean, parking fines go to courts and public works and shit so on the scale of awful things rich people do this is in the "actually okay" zone
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:46 PM on March 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

I’m pretty sure I’ll be able to define whatever action I take in such circumstance in either self-righteous or weasely terms so that I don’t feel bad about the decision.

That avoidance of cognitive dissonance probably explains a lot of what's been going on in the Trump administration. People start off thinking they can do something positive, then they're called on to make some small sacrifice, and then another one, and at each stage the benefit of rebelling isn't worth the cost. So you start off as Governor of a US state and a Presidential candidate, and you end by having to deny that you're actually the guy who fetches burgers for his boss.

In Jared's case, the longer this goes on the fewer real friends he has to lose, which makes the rewards of sucking up to Trump look more and more appealing. And let's be realistic: he's possibly earning hundreds of millions of dollars in investment deals by being Trump's son-in-law; that sort of money can buy a lot of friends in the future, even if he has to make some sort of mea culpa.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:48 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

It’s really hard for me to understand why somebody hasn't paid the Mar-O-Lago fee, get close to Trump, and throw let's say a shoe or a really messy pie at him.

I, too, have $200,000 to burn.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:50 PM on March 29, 2017

I, too, have $200,000 to burn.

seems like that is the best possible use of crowdfunding, but really the $200k is not the issue, the federal prison sentence is the issue
posted by entropicamericana at 3:53 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

So this will go down well: -
Trump Interior Secretary suggests US will seize Mexican land to build border wall. He will also seek a waiver to the Endangered Species Act so it can build the wall in jaguar habitats that are for now protected from “destruction or adverse modification.”
These people are beyond deranged.
posted by adamvasco at 3:54 PM on March 29, 2017 [32 favorites]

Alexandra Petri: What I assume President Trump knows about Susan B. Anthony
posted by rewil at 4:03 PM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

And let's be realistic: he's possibly earning hundreds of millions of dollars in investment deals by being Trump's son-in-law; that sort of money can buy a lot of friends in the future, even if he has to make some sort of mea culpa.

A longer prison term than his father got, and compensatory damages, would buy him my forgiveness.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:03 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

He will also seek a waiver to the Endangered Species Act so it can build the wall in jaguar habitats that are for now protected

You know, I'm not sure we are worth fighting jaguars for right now, but if other people think otherwise, I am willing to welcome them. A wall of jaguar habitat is more than enough.
posted by corb at 4:04 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

This is just frank bullshit. Who and what you support politically says something about who you are as a person, what values you hold and how you view living in a society. If you support a garbage person

I think I accidentally favorited this comment earlier, but I kind of agree with this criticism, just would personally draw the line at family and probably couldn't ever give up hoping some of my older friends from childhood who never caught a break would see the light. I'd never feel comfortable calling another human being other than maybe Trump himself or someone else with that kind of power "garbage."
posted by saulgoodman at 4:06 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Vox: Devin Nunes's botched effort to scuttle the Trump/Russia investigation, explained
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:07 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

60 Minutes Interview Nov. 13, 2016

Lesley Stahl: People think that you’re going to be part of the administration, Ivanka.

Ivanka Trump: I’m-- no. I’m going to be a daughter. But I’ve-- I’ve said throughout the campaign that I am very passionate about certain issues. And that I want to fight for them.

Lesley Stahl: But you won’t be inside--

Ivanka Trump: Wage equality, childcare. These are things that are very important for me. I’m very passionate about education. Really promoting more opportunities for women. So you know, there’re a lot of things that I feel deeply, strongly about. But not in a formal administrative capacity.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:08 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

I don't know if it's that botched - he pretty much killed it in congress.
posted by Artw at 4:09 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

I, too, have $200,000 to burn.

You joke, but this is chump change for a foreign intelligence service to have direct access to the POTUS holding open air and unsecured cabinet meetings (well, except for Russia, since they already get a seat on the actual cabinet). Or for any number of companies, domestic or otherwise. Or for a random billionaire with a pet project to pitch.

The idea that foreign intelligence would get access to Mar-a-lago by buying membership or getting someone employed on the staff has actually been kicked around before and is entirely believable. It’s more the idea of using that access to heave a pie at POTUS that I find less believable - it seems a waste.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:12 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Yeah, that's good pie being ruined.
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:14 PM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'd never feel comfortable calling another human being other than maybe Trump himself or someone else with that kind of power "garbage."

I take it none of their garbage views have ever been directed at you personally? You might find yourself significantly more comfortable, in that case, or at least would know enough not to tell people who are targeted how to feel about the people targeting them.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:16 PM on March 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

I don't know if [Nunes' effort to scuttle the investigation was] that botched - he pretty much killed it in congress.

Yes, but at the cost of involving himself, making the whole thing seem more suspicious, and destroying any possibility of quietly resolving it within a structure that he more-or-less controls.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:18 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

It’s more the idea of using that access to heave a pie at POTUS that I find less believable - it seems a waste.

I bet John Oliver can get it funded in a second. Anyone have his contact? Totally worth the ensuing beatdown by the SS.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:18 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

I take it none of their garbage views have ever been directed at you personally?

I have an anxiety disorder, have been obese, have severe acne scarring, have been diagnosed with severe inattentive ADHD and schizoaffective disorder, publicly identified as bisexual for years, and first came to the U.S. speaking a foreign language. Believe me, I've gotten my share.
posted by saulgoodman at 4:23 PM on March 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

My hope is that if Nunes continues to stonewall the Russia investigation, that some people in the know (perhaps fellow Intelligence Committee reps...) leak a few choice tidbits that leave Congress no choice but to appoint a special prosecutor. Judging by the way some of these guys are talking, I wouldn't be surprised one bit if they did. Schiff wants Yates to testify really badly and a lot of others have hinted that there are major bombshells that they've seen. If they're sitting on this stuff and the GOP is attempting to bury it, sooner or later something is going to get out.
posted by azpenguin at 4:24 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

I, too, have $200,000 to burn

There are many other ways of getting into Mar-A-Lago. There was a recent dinner open to the public that cost $300 a plate. Also any member can bring a guest. Guests are not vetted nor required to provide ID.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:24 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Yes, but at the cost of involving himself, making the whole thing seem more suspicious, and destroying any possibility of quietly resolving it within a structure that he more-or-less controls.

Doesn't matter. He's killed it. There will be no consequences.

Maybe we'll get to see the same thing done more elegantly in the Senate.
posted by Artw at 4:29 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

If we learned nothing else from the Benghazi nonsense its that a steady slow drip of non-information can also be incredibly, permanently damaging. Furthermore, we learned through both that and emailghazi that even if Trump is cleared, we can keep using this against him and everyone involved in a permanent way. I am hoping this Katamari grows to envelope that whole pro-Trump population of DC and maybe a few governors as well.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:29 PM on March 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

Vox The federal coal leasing program is ripping off taxpayers. Zinke just canceled plans to reform it.

Earlier this week, I wrote a post about Donald Trump’s decision, as part of his executive order on energy and climate change, to lift the moratorium on the leasing of coal on federal land. I made a simple point: the moratorium itself is not that big a deal, since coal companies haven’t exactly been clamoring for new leases lately. The big deal is the broad, comprehensive review of the coal-leasing program launched in 2015 by Sally Jewell, who was at the time Interior Secretary under President Obama.

The review, not the moratorium, will shape the future of federal coal policy, I said, so keep your eye on the review.

Well, as of this afternoon, we have an update: the review has been scrapped. So much for that!

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:31 PM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

If we learned nothing else from the Benghazi nonsense its that a steady slow drip of non-information can also be incredibly, permanently damaging.

Yeah, but conversely actual real information does fuck all if nobody pursued it. Which is what he have seen and what we will continue to see.
posted by Artw at 4:33 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Maybe Trump shouldn't have insulted her looks.

Fiorina calls for special prosecutor, independent commission to conduct Russia investigation

"We've got to have either a special prosecutor or an independent commission, and that's still the right answer," Fiorina told the "John Fredericks Show." "And every day that goes by, it becomes clearer it's the right answer because the Democrats will not let this go, and the American people need to be reassured about what actually happened here."

"That's the only way you're gonna get to the bottom of this in a way that everyone trusts," Fiorina added.

posted by chris24 at 4:35 PM on March 29, 2017 [34 favorites]

okay that's a start but it would be nice to have a republican that other republicans don't loathe speak up
posted by murphy slaw at 4:42 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Fuck yeah Seattle.
posted by Artw at 4:45 PM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

Just spent a week in Seattle, Portland and Bend and loved every wet and snowy minute of it. PNW, you are the best and I have all the confidence that when shit finally gets straightened out in this country it will be the PNW that leads the way.
posted by photoslob at 4:58 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Good news everybody. We can keep our money & still get to see what Congress has been browsing. Cards Against Humanity creator Max Temkin has pledged to buy them for us using his own money. No, really. Maybe he thinks he can make it back when we all buy more of his games in appreciation. He's probably right.
posted by scalefree at 4:59 PM on March 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

NYMag What George W. Bush Really Thought of Donald Trump’s Inauguration

Bush’s endearing struggle with his poncho at the event quickly became a meme, prompting many Democrats on social media to admit that they already pined for the relative normalcy of his administration. Following Trump’s short and dire speech, Bush departed the scene and never offered public comment on the ceremony.

But, according to three people who were present, Bush gave a brief assessment of Trump’s inaugural after leaving the dais: “That was some weird shit.” All three heard him say it.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:00 PM on March 29, 2017 [95 favorites]

There are many other ways of getting into Mar-A-Lago.

if I knew how to grift up the funds for my rappelling hooks and tacticalnecks, I would go show the world one right now. or after I did it, I would show the world. it would be sneaky at the time. basically first you swim across the lagoon, then you go over the wall. bring quiet shoes.

but you don't need any of that fancy business if you are willing to test out the theory that women over a certain age (it's not 50, but let's say 50 to be sure) are literally invisible in donald trump's presence. when his gaze touches you it is like a cone of silence, like the opposite of a line of sight in a stealth game. just stomp on up to the important men's table, he can't see you until it's too late and maybe not even then.

this is probably also where the wiretapping theory came from. an adult woman was in the room talking to him, like an Angela Merkel type, you know, and he just felt this subsonic buzzing kind of thing, like there was no one in the room but it felt like there was someone in the room. he figured it was microwaves, microwaves make a man uneasy.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:03 PM on March 29, 2017 [28 favorites]

From the incomparable R. Eric Thomas: You Will Never, in Your Entire Life, Get the Best of Maxine Waters

Me reading this article.

My instructions for coming for Maxine. Step one: don't.
posted by supercrayon at 5:04 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

House votes to restrict EPA’s use of science

So I would be okay with this if the government had any substantial transparency regulations for any other thing that they contract for. Many, many government contractors argue 'proprietary data' in many instances where that argument doesn't make any sense at all.

However, the 'no proprietary data' argument just limited to scientific data is really an egregious affront. It makes me so angry. I am just going to hit post now and stop.
posted by Quonab at 5:06 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

The whole Jared friends/politics/country discussion seems overly simplified to me, in the sense that who you would betray or not seems to be considered as if context doesn't even matter.

It's a false dichotomy. While I'm fairly lenient on differences of opinion in general, I nevertheless live by some foundational moral strictures that are going to play a major role in that decision, if we come up against them.

If you're a bigot, I find that to be morally repugnant enough that I don't care if you're my friend. I don't care if you only carry out that behavior "politically", whatever that means. I don't care what ideology it's rolled up in. It's unacceptable, and it's going to significantly drive any decision making I consider in our relationship.

And that can be extrapolated to any set of moral lines in the sand you might have. The idea that one's political beliefs exist in some kind of a vacuum from his/her moral mettle as a human being is absurd.

On a meta-note, the fact that Jared can't make that distinction itself says a lot to me about his moral maturity. I'd say it's unlikely we'll ever be exchanging holiday cards.
posted by Brak at 5:06 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

House votes to restrict EPA’s use of science

Tell me again any Republican is anything more than sewage in a suit.
posted by Artw at 5:07 PM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

WaPo: Hill Republicans trying to avert a shutdown need Democrats — and Trump

The fear is that funding for a border wall is going to blow up any budget deal to keep the government running, and Democrats have a simple pitch to oppose that:

Democrats “will do everything possible to make sure that U.S. taxpayer moneys do not go to build a wall,” said Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), adding later: “At the end of the day, he should keep his word and make someone else pay for it — not the United States taxpayer.”

Also, hilariously, Paul Ryan to CBS on Obamacare: "I worry we'll push the President to work with Democrats."

Remember when we'd at least lie about bipartisanship as a goal? That's gone. And I actually think Ryan might be sincere here. He knows Trump doesn't give a crap about actual health policy and could start doing an end-run around Ryan. That's all his lifelong dreams about ruining Medicaid at risk there.
posted by zachlipton at 5:10 PM on March 29, 2017 [23 favorites]

Tell me again any Republican is anything more than sewage in a suit.

That doesn't sound like anything I would ever say.
posted by entropicamericana at 5:13 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

I bet Trump could say "OK, the Republicans in Congress had their chance, and they failed, horribly, it was an enormous disaster. We're gonna let the Democrats try, they can propose something and we'll work out a deal, my supporters can get enough Republicans to join in on a good deal to pass it." and it would just COMPLETELY FUCK the Democrats. Even if Trump actually wants the deal so he can actually have an accomplished goal in his presidency, it would completely fuck the Democrats.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:20 PM on March 29, 2017

We're gonna let the Democrats try, they can propose something and we'll work out a deal, my supporters can get enough Republicans to join in on a good deal to pass it.

Medicare for all. The Democrats can propose what the public already wants and the Republicans can say no.
Isn't this already happening?
posted by kirkaracha at 5:26 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Jared Kushner is saying that men of character, like himself, are willing to shake hands with on-the-record anti-semites like Bannon and Trump because that's smart business, and smart business is American Business. His father was a criminal, and his father-in-law is a criminal. That's the smart business he understands. Is it no wonder his words make no sense? He's trying to be the best nazi son-in-law possible, and keep the family business of stealing moving along smoothly. Forgive him if his logic doesn't pass muster. Crime family logic rarely does.
posted by valkane at 5:26 PM on March 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

Even if Trump actually wants the deal so he can actually have an accomplished goal in his presidency, it would completely fuck the Democrats.

dude can't even stay on topic long enough to hash out a deal with his own party, how's this supposed to work?
posted by murphy slaw at 5:27 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Jared has been losing his liberal New York friends, which he's described as "exfoliat[ing]" people. Boo hoo.

Yes I'm sure Ivanka never exfoliates.

Like most lizard people, she sheds her skin and then consumes it for calcium and other nutrients. Tomato sauce is used to obscure the process.
posted by Sparx at 5:27 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Medicare for all.

Yup.

Isn't this already happening?

Sanders says he will introduce 'Medicare for all' bill

Don;t know if it's gotten further than that.
posted by Artw at 5:32 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is a damn fantastic twitter thread about charisma, politicians, Elizabeth Warren, and sexism. I'll extract a bit, but read the whole thing:

Another reason is because the things that we value in a candidate are unacceptable in women.
Imagine a woman getting up there and shouting the way the GOP candidate and Bernie Sanders did.
Imagine a woman *spitting* with enthusiasm, as Bernie did rather often.
Imagine a woman wearing the ill-fitting suits Sanders or Pumpkinhead wore. Imagine a woman having the *hair* they had!
As far as primaries go: If we're going to hold women to the same "charisma" standards as men, we will never, ever have a female nominee.
...
But in the meantime: *Stop saying Hillary Clinton didn't have charisma.* Because according to America, no female candidate has charisma.
Leftists/progressives/liberals: Whether you liked her or not, stop ceding the definition of "charisma" to the sexist as fuck electorate.

posted by zachlipton at 5:34 PM on March 29, 2017 [62 favorites]

it would completely fuck the Democrats

Expound on that a little? As repugnant as I personally find Donnie, I'm quite capable of supporting the policies of someone I find odious, when those polices themselves seem sound.

I mean, this is purely rhetorical since the idiot and his sycophants haven't shown any likelihood of generating such policies, but holding their noses and trying to work with people they dislike used to sort of be a hallmark of the Democratic party.

Ideological purity testing and broken bipartisanship may be the name of the game now, but I feel like people who are unwilling to support a reasonable policy because of its source, especially when that source, however shitty, is actually in power, probably aren't going to be people we can form a coalition with anyway.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:36 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Please also read this excellent response to the above, which says basically "yeah that, and a thousand times more for Black and Latina women in politics":

While white women candidates get drubbed for femininity: high voices, care with fashion, Black women have their femininity denied outright.
...
While white women are attacked for being too schoolmarmish, Black women are attacked for being too strident and angry all the time.

posted by zachlipton at 5:38 PM on March 29, 2017 [30 favorites]

Expound on that a little? As repugnant as I personally find Donnie, I'm quite capable of supporting the policies of someone I find odious, when those polices themselves seem sound.

Because when someone like Donnie wants you to support something like, say, a clean water plan he's either:
a) Planning to dump a whole heap of industrial bleach into a river
b) Planning on fucking you later

Either way it's not pleasant.
posted by Talez at 5:40 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Fiorina calls for special prosecutor, independent commission to conduct Russia investigation

She's been saying this for at least three weeks now. She appears on the John Fredericks Show every two weeks as a part of her not-yet-official run against Tim Kaine in 2018. Yes, she's running for yet another senate seat in yet another state (remember when Hillary was the carpetbagger?), so it's super hilarious to me how she affects a southern accent when she mentions she briefly lived in Virginia almost four decades ago.

Also, like most rightwing radio hosts, John Fredericks is a real trash person. He was Virginia vice-chair of the Trump campaign and his radio show served as non-stop campaign platform for Trump, and his children, and other campaign surrogates.
posted by peeedro at 5:41 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

The thing about Kushner is that he's betraying his friends AND his country. And he's too much of a dick to get that.
posted by Lyme Drop at 5:43 PM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

Medicare for All has already been introduced in the House with something like 70 Democrat co-sponsors.

Conyers has been introducing this thing every year, for years.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:43 PM on March 29, 2017 [42 favorites]

Expound on that a little? As repugnant as I personally find Donnie, I'm quite capable of supporting the policies of someone I find odious, when those polices themselves seem sound.

Let me give an example of how Donnie fucks the Democrats on healthcare:

1) Democrats come up with awesome Medicare for All plan. It covers everybody. It lowers premiums, especially for businesses, but still keeps the mandate and there's now a new payroll tax for employers that don't provide health insurance to give the people Medicare anyway.

2) SCROTUS takes it to the Rs. He's fucked them once so they're in no mood to deal. But sure. They'll give him the rope to hang himself with. "Sure we'll support it so long as you take out the mandate and the new tax because fuck new taxes".

3) SCROTUS comes back to the Ds saying he's got a deal for these "teensy little changes" which basically gut the whole plan. Democrats, of course, are aghast. SCROTUS is already on TV talking about this bipartisan deal he's brokered because he's the dealmaker etc etc.

Now you have two options:

4a) Shoot your own plan in the head, publicly own a healthcare policy failure, and Donnie gets on your case from the bully pulpit talking about how he tried to work with Democrats but they failed and flipped at the last minute and it took your healthcare away. Because, you know, either they're the failure or he is.

4b) Go along with a plan that's completely fucking gutted that can't get 60 votes in the Senate, publicly own a healthcare policy failure, and Donnie gets on your case from the bully pulpit talking about how he tried to work with Democrats but they failed and flipped at the last minute and it took your healthcare away. Because, you know, either they're the failure or he is.
posted by Talez at 5:47 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

~~Giles~~ American citizenry: Now, costumes, sets, um, the things that you, uh, you know, uh, you, um... you hold them, you touch them, uh, use them, um..."
~~Harmony~~ John Conyers: "Props?"
~~Giles~~ American citizenry: "No."
~~Riley~~ Bernie Sanders: "Props?"
~~Giles~~ American citizenry: "Yes!"
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:47 PM on March 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump Russia dossier key claim 'verified'

At one point he wrote: "A leading Russian diplomat, Mikhail KULAGIN, had been withdrawn from Washington at short notice because Moscow feared his heavy involvement in the US presidential election operation… would be exposed in the media there."

There was no diplomat called Kulagin in the Russian embassy; there was a Kalugin.

One of Trump's allies, Roger Stone, said to me of Steele, scornfully: "If 007 wants to be taken seriously, he ought to learn how to spell."

The Russian Foreign Ministry said Kalugin was head of the embassy's economics section.

A lot to unpack in this article. I think I am going to need to read it again to figure out what exactly is going on.
posted by futz at 5:49 PM on March 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

Fiorina calls for special prosecutor, independent commission to conduct Russia investigation

Worth noting that Carly Forina recently moved to Virginia and is widely expected to run against Tim Kaine in 2018.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:52 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh no, what will HP do without her?
posted by Artw at 5:55 PM on March 29, 2017

Oh no, what will HP do without her?

They went back to being profitable.
posted by Talez at 5:56 PM on March 29, 2017 [36 favorites]

Expound on that a little? As repugnant as I personally find Donnie, I'm quite capable of supporting the policies of someone I find odious, when those polices themselves seem sound.

Charlie Brown generally agrees with Lucy's stated football holding policy.
posted by srboisvert at 5:57 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Expound on that a little? As repugnant as I personally find Donnie, I'm quite capable of supporting the policies of someone I find odious, when those polices themselves seem sound.

Sure, but the problem is not merely that Trump is odious, but rather that he's not a well person who listens to the last person to speak to him and is surrounded by advisors who want to destroy the government. He has no need for consistency, nothing that indicates he honors agreements (indeed, he has a long line of creditors that indicates that he does not). There's no way for Democrats to make a deal with him, even something that gives us everything we want and will be great for the country, because there's have no assurance he won't blow it up with a tweet at 6am one day. Or that someone won't get on Fox and Friends and talk trash about the deal, and he'll rip the whole thing up.
posted by zachlipton at 5:58 PM on March 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

Trump Russia dossier key claim 'verified'

I need to read this a few more times, but as I'm reading it, it's saying that Kalugin was confirmed to be a spy, but it doesn't say this guy's involvement in interfering with the election was confirmed, right?
posted by zachlipton at 6:02 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Charlie Brown generally agrees with Lucy's stated football holding policy.

Oh, quick question, when is that film going to run? Nine, ten-thirty, ...?
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:03 PM on March 29, 2017

Now you have two options:

4a) Shoot your own plan in the head, publicly own a healthcare policy failure, and Donnie gets on your case from the bully pulpit talking about how he tried to work with Democrats but they failed and flipped at the last minute and it took your healthcare away. Because, you know, either they're the failure or he is.

A party that cares about policy outcomes doesn't have to fuck around with Trump's bullshit dominance games. If he meets them on policy and brings along "moderate" Republicans, as unlikely as that is, Democrats can talk. If he sells them a bill of goods and changes the policy terms to turn it into a shit sandwich, they can walk away and say, "he turned it into a shit sandwich".

They have no real incentive to do any of this unless it's on their terms. The Democratic base isn't going to forgive working with Trump without real, actual, demonstrable, easily sold, concessions on long standing Democratic goals. If not that, they'd rather Dems tell Trump to fuck himself. Walking away from any "deal" has no downsides, and it's not clear that agreeing to any deal has any political upsides whatsoever, and certainly doesn't without real policy wins.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:04 PM on March 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Expound on that a little?

So the Medicare for All thing is not, in the current situation, a serious thing, in that the purpose of this bill is for rhetoric and for a co-sponsorship to point to while campaigning, it's not something anyone put up seriously thinking it was gonna go through. It could BECOME serious if Trump actually did as I mused about, but right now it doesn't matter much.

Why I think this would fuck the Democrats? Because there's so many ways for it to get fucked it seems exceedingly unlikely things would go decently.

-(in no particular order)
-Is it gonna be single payer? The insurance co. donations and speaking fees might have something to say about that, at least enough to set up opposing plans/factions.
-There will be moral upset and fractiousness over the thought of collaborating with the hated Trump.
-Democrats again having something of substance to argue over, BernieBros v. Clintonites conflict resurfaces.
-Maybe Trump does intend the failure.
-Or he doesn't, but lack of trust is a barrier that can't be overcome.
-It does require some negotiation with the unpredictable Trump, which could go bad even if Trump is vaguely sincere at the outset.
-Care for non-citizens & illegal immigrants.
-Coverage for abortions, birth control, transgender care.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 6:07 PM on March 29, 2017

To be non-snarky about it: if the fascists want to accomplish a genuinely social-democratic policy like good-quality, universal health care funded through a single, efficient and democratically-accountable payer with affordable (or no) point-of-service costs, and with no racist, misogynist, xenophobic or classist poison pills, then they can have our votes -- but they have to win our trust by doing absolutely all the heavy lifting.

ok, still a bit snarky, sorry
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:08 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

futz: Trump Russia dossier key claim 'verified'

At one point he wrote: "A leading Russian diplomat, Mikhail KULAGIN, had been withdrawn from Washington at short notice because Moscow feared his heavy involvement in the US presidential election operation… would be exposed in the media there."

There was no diplomat called Kulagin in the Russian embassy; there was a Kalugin.

I find it interesting that the FBI investigation became in late July and Kalugin was abruptly sent home to Russia in August.
posted by bluecore at 6:09 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

Somebody mentioned Benghazi a little ways up-thread and I remembered trying to share the deets with my boomer/tea-party parents...they literally glitched. They blinked repeatedly and hideously. They were confounded. Perplexed. They struggled, choking on the reality before they succumbed to their training...the propaganda they'd received via Fox news.

It was the most uncomfortable I'd ever been with them. Worse than when my mom walked into my room while I was masturbating as a young teen...the two most intelligent and highly educated people in my life were drinking the god-damn cool-aid. My mom denied knowing what "drinking the cool-aid" was.
posted by snsranch at 6:12 PM on March 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

Bush’s endearing struggle with his poncho at the event quickly became a meme, prompting many Democrats on social media to admit that they already pined for the relative normalcy of his administration. Following Trump’s short and dire speech, Bush departed the scene and never offered public comment on the ceremony.

But, according to three people who were present, Bush gave a brief assessment of Trump’s inaugural after leaving the dais: “That was some weird shit.” All three heard him say it.

I never thought the day would come when I thought W was one of the good guys, but here we are.
posted by oozy rat in a sanitary zoo at 6:12 PM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

-Care for non-citizens & illegal immigrants.

Medicare For All Sanguine Citizens.

I changed it from my original phrasing to conform with the relevant latinate jus. it's terrible just writing it out. Can't you imagine it?

Hans, are we the baddies?

/all ruddy citizens
//all hopeful citizens
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:19 PM on March 29, 2017

Yashar says: "Multiple sources have told me that California Senator Dianne Feinstein is likely to run for re-election in 2018."

I will say that she seems to have gotten spooked by all the calls for her to resist and is doing better lately, but seriously, who can possibly put up a primary challenge?

(This is where someone says Tom Steyer and everybody groans.)
posted by zachlipton at 6:26 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Who is ‘Source D’? The man said to be behind the Trump-Russia dossier’s most salacious claim.
posted by futz at 6:30 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

On the bright side, /r/the_donald is flipping out that their hero is about to sign the bill gutting internet privacy regulations, and it's pretty hilarious.
posted by zachlipton at 6:30 PM on March 29, 2017 [69 favorites]

My fave is the one who thinks Trump might not sign it and that will set liberals against Net Neutrality.
posted by Artw at 6:35 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

A lot to unpack in this article. I think I am going to need to read it again to figure out what exactly is going on.

Well, we know that Christopher Steele watched all seasons of Downton Abbey.
posted by ocschwar at 6:41 PM on March 29, 2017

Palmer Report on Trump - Russia. (scroll down for online link)
Long and Detailed and gives citations and sources.

New thread please.
posted by adamvasco at 6:42 PM on March 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

EXT. MAR-A-LAGO TERRACE. UM APPROACHES TRMPU, PIE IN HAND. HE HAS A CLEAR SHOT.

Angel um (perched on shoulder): Do it! Throw the pie! You'll go to prison but as a hero!
Devil um (other shoulder): No, eat the pie! Then rat out your co-conspirators! You'll have pie AND the confidence of a rich powerful stupid old duffer!
um: *profuse sweating*
posted by um at 6:51 PM on March 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

Palmer Report isn't super reliable I am interested if their sourcing is real, though.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:51 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

From that BBC "dossier key claim 'confirmed'" article:

Thirdly, Russia downloads the online voter rolls.

The voter rolls are said to fit into this because of "microtargeting". Using email, Facebook and Twitter, political advertising can be tailored very precisely: individual messaging for individual voters.

Soooo that sounds an awful lot like what Cambridge Analytica did. If it came out that Cambridge Analytica had used hacked voter roll information to juice their algorithm I would not be shocked in the least.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:06 PM on March 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

There's no way for Democrats to make a deal with him, even something that gives us everything we want and will be great for the country, because there's have no assurance he won't blow it up with a tweet at 6am one day. Or that someone won't get on Fox and Friends and talk trash about the deal, and he'll rip the whole thing up.

Yeah, that's my reading of the situation too. Trump has personal strategies and reflexes that have worked pretty well for him, but they don't come from any ideological base more sophisticated than a desire for wealth and dominance.

The limited success enjoyed by Bannon &c lies in the fact that disrupting existing processes is a lot easier than creating new ones. I mean, they not only have trouble crafting an executive order that passes judicial scrutiny, they sabotage their chances by boasting about their illegal intent when crafting it. They create a tremendously disruptive "healthcare" proposal, but drop it after less than three weeks. These are not serious people, and they don't have the depth and commitment to negotiate a compromise and stick with it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:15 PM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

White Supremacist Charged With Terrorism Over Murder Of Black Man
posted by Artw at 7:18 PM on March 29, 2017 [34 favorites]

Source: Kushner meeting with Russian bank exec was effort to 'engage with' Russia

-- According to this source, neither of Kushner's meetings -- with the Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak and with Russian banker Sergey Gorkov -- were about sanctions, which Russian banks have been lobbying against since they were imposed in 2014.

These were "relationship meetings," the source said. In Kushner's meeting with Kislyak, the source added, Kushner asked Kislyak to "identify someone who would be a good intermediary as they were trying to figure out who the right person would be to engage with on Russia."

The source said the transition team -- and Kushner in particular -- were looking for ways to establish a back channel to Putin, as they had done with other leaders during the transition.

-- In their meeting, Kislyak suggested Kushner also meet with Gorkov, whom Russian President Vladimir Putin appointed in February 2016 as chairman of VneshEconomBank, a Russian state development bank that has been under US sanctions since July 2014.

The bank, known as VEB, and its ties to the Russian government could have easily been identified in an internet search. But the Trump transition "had no mechanism for vetting anyone" and it was not done, the source said.

And while Kushner himself could have done a cursory search to find out more about Gorkov, that didn't happen. "In a more organized transition there would have been someone to vet people before there were meetings," the source said as explanation, acknowledging "incompetence" in that area of the transition.

The bank's recent statement that the meeting with Kushner was part of a "roadshow of business meetings" is in clear contrast to Kushner's view of it. "That wasn't the purpose of the meeting," the source said. "That's ridiculous."

Also:

The Kremlin and the White House have conflicting accounts of Jared Kushner's meeting with the CEO of a Russia-owned bank

Russian President Vladimir Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, told reporters on Tuesday that Kushner's meeting with Vnesheconombank CEO Sergey Gorkov in late December "was ordinary business," echoing the bank's previous claim that it had met with Kushner in his capacity as "the head of Kushner companies."

"As part of the preparation of the new strategy, executives of Vnesheconombank met with representatives of leading financial institutes in Europe, Asia, and America multiple times during 2016," the bank told Reuters on Monday night.

"During the talks, the existing practices of foreign development banks and promising trends were discussed," it added. It also said the meetings took place "with a number of representatives of the largest banks and business establishments of the United States, including Jared Kushner, the head of Kushner Companies."

That appears to conflict with the White House's version of events, which is that Kushner met with Gorkov as a representative of Trump's transition team.

Kushner's got some more exfoliating to do. Perhaps a dip in the Dead Sea might be in order too.
posted by futz at 7:32 PM on March 29, 2017 [16 favorites]

Okay, my phone just loaded near the top of the thread and I started reading it again all over until I noticed I'd already favorited- a surreal experience I would not wish on any of you...which is to say I will write a sonnet in the honor of the next mefite to post a new thread.
posted by corb at 7:34 PM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

Soooo that sounds an awful lot like what Cambridge Analytica did. If it came out that Cambridge Analytica had used hacked voter roll information to juice their algorithm I would not be shocked in the least.

Ding Ding Ding! Some of this has been revealed recently but additional confirmation is excellent. Drip Drip Drip...kinda like a an aging prostate on a Russian bed...
posted by futz at 7:37 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

I have to admit, I could actually listen to acoustic emo Trump repeatedly, unlike the original Emo Trump. Yes, I was in high school in the late 1990s, why do you ask? (Seriously, I now want to wail "WHAT .. DO YOU HAVE .. TO LOSE .. BY TRYING TRUMP?" ... to which I answer, "everything," in either a soft whisper, or a defiant shout, as if it's a call and response song)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:03 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Think of it like the debt ceiling showdown, we all know there has to be a new thread, but every time we play chicken to see just how close to disaster we can come before stepping back from the ledge and someone agrees to be the poster.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:04 PM on March 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

GA-06 status:

Day 3 of in-person early voting in GA-6 is D 52, R 32 Over all, D 55, R 31 with 4879 votes cast

So far--and it's very early--voting is proceeding at about the same pace as 2014... but Dem turnout is 2x 2014, and Rep turnout is 1/2

But really--it's super super early

Worth noting that there are another 6000 requested but unreturned absentee ballots. They're D 47, R 21.

posted by Chrysostom at 8:05 PM on March 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

So much winning you'll get sick of winning.

Hawaii judge extends national block on Trump's travel ban

The Hawaii federal judge who brought President Trump's revised travel ban to a national halt this month on Wednesday extended his order blocking the ban's enforcement.

The move sets the stage for the Department of Justice to appeal to the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals to reverse the ruling.

U.S. District Judge Derrick Watson's original order halting the travel ban was issued March 15, a day before the ban was to go into effect, in the form of a temporary restraining order. At a hearing in Honolulu on Wednesday, federal lawyers asked Watson to either dismiss that order or narrow the restrictions to apply to fewer parts of the travel ban.

Instead, Watson said he would turn the order into a preliminary injunction, which has the effect of extending his order blocking the travel ban for a longer period. Watson said he would keep intact the restrictions on the travel ban -- a block of its 90-day moratorium on travel to the U.S. from nationals of six majority-Muslim countries, and its 120-day pause on new refugee resettlement.

posted by chris24 at 8:23 PM on March 29, 2017 [37 favorites]

Medicare for All has already been introduced in the House with something like 70 Democrat co-sponsors.

"Democratic co-sponsors," please.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:39 PM on March 29, 2017 [24 favorites]

My mom denied knowing what 'drinking the cool-aid' was.
Maybe because it was Flavor Aid?
posted by kirkaracha at 8:42 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

This was mentioned earlier but deserves more notice. The NYT reports that the deal between the the Kushner Group and the Chinese company has fallen through. The building at 666 Fifth Ave was intended to expand their business into Manhattan but was bought just before the economic downturn of 2008 and it's been a struggle. The terms were very generous.

The development came days after Democratic lawmakers wrote letters to the Office of White House Counsel and Treasury Secretary, expressing concern that the possible deal could breach federal ethics rules, and as Mr. Trump is preparing to meet Xi Jinping, China’s president, for their first summit at Mr. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida.

So you figure Kushner must be mighty pissed right now.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:43 PM on March 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

Ted Lieu primaries Feinstein
posted by waitangi at 8:45 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

Or Adam Schiff?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:46 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Obama WH ethics lawyer: Appointment of Ivanka is nepotism

Former White House ethics lawyer to President Obama Norman Eisen said Wednesday that he and the former ethics lawyer to President George W. Bush see Ivanka Trump's role as an adviser to President Trump as a violation of nepotism laws.

"My view... is that the nepotism statue does apply to the White House," Eisen said on CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" of the announcement that Ivanka Trump would receive an official role in the Trump administration. "For decades the Justice Department held 'yes' the nepotism statue applies to the White House."

And then the Sniveling Snidely Jeffry [shit] Lord chimes in with 10 examples of acceptable nepotism THAT OCCURRED prior to the anti-nepotism laws after JFK in 1967! Of course Mr. Sniveling Snidely Jeffry Lord is a paid commentator on CNN. Fuck that noise.
posted by futz at 8:46 PM on March 29, 2017 [22 favorites]

The NYT reports that the deal between the the Kushner Group and the Chinese company has fallen through.

I totally missed that news. Thanks for mentioning it. *searches thread now for link*
posted by futz at 8:56 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ideological purity testing and broken bipartisanship may be the name of the game now, but I feel like people who are unwilling to support a reasonable policy because of its source, especially when that source, however shitty, is actually in power, probably aren't going to be people we can form a coalition with anyway.

Are you aware that Obamacare was originally Romneycare which was originally a plan from the right-wing Heritage Foundation? Obama embraced the Republican plan because he believed that was the best way to get bi-partisan support. Funny how that worked out. Seems Republicans were "unwilling to support a reasonable policy because of its source" as you said.

Are you aware that Obama tried to enact the carbon cap and trade policy proposed by Republicans even though economists said that a direct carbon tax would be more effective. Funny how that worked out. Seems Republicans were "unwilling to support a reasonable policy because of its source" as you said.

Now you are demanding that Democrats support a plan from Trump that he has not defined in any way and from a man who has a history of going back on his word and screwing everyone he has ever dealt with.

So you think Democrats are the problem? Get real.
posted by JackFlash at 9:02 PM on March 29, 2017 [56 favorites]

waitangi: Ted Lieu primaries Feinstein

I fantasize that his campaign slogan will be: "In Lieu of Feinstein."
posted by Superplin at 9:11 PM on March 29, 2017 [65 favorites]

NYT: "North Carolina lawmakers said they will repeal the state law prohibiting transgender people from using restrooms in accordance with their gender identities. A vote is scheduled for Thursday."

From everything that I read I did not think this would happen. IF it happens? FUCK them. They chose revenue over people. UNACCEPTABLE. Funny what a 48 hour ultimatum will do to your hard core ideology when it probably fucks with your side deals and other bribery. This really isn't a victory in my eyes, I mean it is, but in the dirtiest most dishonest way.
posted by futz at 9:15 PM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

From everything that I read I did not think this would happen. IF it happens? FUCK them. They chose revenue over people. UNACCEPTABLE. Funny what a 48 hour ultimatum will do to your hard core ideology when it probably fucks with your side deals and other bribery. This really isn't a victory in my eyes, I mean it is, but in the dirtiest most dishonest way.

It's worse than that, they choose college basketball over people (although I guess side deals and bribery probably fall into the same category). Duke and UNC were facing down the prospect of no home NCAA tournament sites for 6 years, that's the real motivation behind repeal if it comes to pass.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:19 PM on March 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

It's worse than that, they choose college basketball over people (although I guess side deals and bribery probably fall into the same category). Duke and UNC were facing down the prospect of no home NCAA tournament sites for 6 years, that's the real motivation behind repeal if it comes to pass.

Yup. I have commented on this several times. I fully understand what's what.
posted by futz at 9:27 PM on March 29, 2017

Kushner's got some more exfoliating to do. Perhaps a dip in the Dead Sea might be in order too.

Gorkov's FSB, or FSB-trained, or so on.

http://www.businessinsider.com/jared-kushner-meeting-ceo-russia-bank-2017-3

U.S. officials said that after meeting with Russian Kislyak at Trump Tower last December, a meeting also attended by Flynn, Kushner met later in December with Sergei Gorkov, chairman of Vnesheconombank.

White House spokeswoman Hope Hicks confirmed the meetings, saying nothing of consequence was discussed.

Gorkov was appointed head of VEB in early 2016 by Russian President Vladimir Putin. He graduated from the Federal Security Service, or FSB, Russia's internal security agency. He was awarded the Medal of the Order of Merit for Services to the Fatherland, according to the bank's website.

posted by sebastienbailard at 9:49 PM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

People, even including HRC, are not loving the HB2 deal, as it's apparently a "compromise" that institutes a moratorium on local ordinances like Charlotte's. It gets rid of HB2, but it's messing with anti-discrimination ordinances too.
posted by zachlipton at 9:51 PM on March 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

Wait, I'm having deja vu. Wasn't that the same "deal" that was offered then yanked six months ago?
posted by corb at 9:53 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Regarding the Business Insider article sebastienbailard linked above: it's amazing how often one answer would be fine, but two answers are worse than none at all.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:56 PM on March 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Can anyone explain this latest HB2 thing in English? I'm so confused
posted by Yowser at 9:58 PM on March 29, 2017

Can anyone explain this latest HB2 thing in English? I'm so confused

What? Are you telling me that you don't understand Americanese?! Me neither.

It is the the "bathroom bill" in which the Repubs project their insecurities about trans people lurking about in bathrooms to prey upon white Christian folk and their children. It's a reprehensible Boogie "man" bill and now that they are being held financially responsible for it (NCAA etc tournaments choosing other states) they are suddenly backing down. It's all about the ideology until the state/personal coffers take a hit. Ya know, americanese.
posted by futz at 10:29 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

But the twitter links all say they're not backing down at all???
posted by Yowser at 10:33 PM on March 29, 2017

Yowser, I am relying on lalex's link
posted by futz at 10:43 PM on March 29, 2017

Trump Drops Human Rights Demand in Bid to Sell Bahrain F-16 Jets

-- The U.S. State Department told Congress it backs the sale of 19 Lockheed Martin Corp. F-16 fighters to Bahrain without preconditions on improved human rights previously demanded by the Obama administration, according to two people familiar with the proposal.

-- The notice also came the same day the commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East, Army General Joseph Votel, told a House committee that foreign arms sales to allies shouldn’t be burdened with preconditions tied to human rights because they could damage military-to-military ties. Votel, who heads the U.S. Central Command, singled out Bahrain as an example.

Read it and weep.
posted by futz at 11:11 PM on March 29, 2017 [21 favorites]

With HB2, the deal they're talking about would ban cities from having their own anti-discrimination laws, and rights groups are coming out against it. There's real question from smart people as to whether banning cities from passing anti-discrimination laws is constitutional, by which I mean smart people say this looks an awful lot like something the Supreme Court said no to in 1996, though a bunch of other states are doing it and haven't gotten slapped down yet.
posted by zachlipton at 11:22 PM on March 29, 2017 [19 favorites]

Another day of crazy. I wonder if humanity can hold out at this pace.

Reading the most recent FBI and Russia news, I wonder if not Obama's worst mistake of his entire presidency was underestimating the Trump campaign, including its collusion with Russia.

More and more I believe that the Obama administration and the IC knew about Trump's collusion with Russia, mob ties etc. but were so certain Clinton would win that they deemed it more correct to wait till after the election to deal with it in order to avoid further delegitimization of US democracy.

Also, some people may have thought it would be a great idea to pull up all of this after a Clinton win, because it would be a kick in the balls of the Republican party, maybe securing a surprise 2016 turnover of Congress.
posted by mumimor at 2:37 AM on March 30, 2017 [14 favorites]

Paul Manafort's Mysterious MillionsNew reports question whether transactions by the former Trump campaign chair, who has been tied to Russia, indicate possible money laundering.

Or whether he just likes buying houses for cash.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:51 AM on March 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

More and more I believe that the Obama administration and the IC knew about Trump's collusion with Russia, mob ties etc. but were so certain Clinton would win that they deemed it more correct to wait till after the election to deal with it in order to avoid further delegitimization of US democracy.

Yeah, this. Or, y'know, "other" in which - Obama was following orders / master plan of [insert seekrit hegemonic boogeyman here]. Or was double-crossed by said seekrit hegemonic boogeyman.

Or just got rolled by a bunch of "sez who!?" dicks once middle-aged white men found the courage to trash America rather than vote for Hillary.

That last one is less cinematic tho.
posted by petebest at 3:08 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

This timeline... the madness of 'King Don has resulted in Vogue publishing cybersecurity advisories.

(can't stop, have to dash off 1000 words on what to expect from London Fashion Week for Enterprise Internetworking Weekly.)
posted by Devonian at 3:10 AM on March 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

Perfectly normal to have to run ads two months in to keep your popularity from plummeting even further.

@mmurraypolitics
Before Trump's 70th day in office, outside group is airing ads to prop up his numbers. 1st reported by @JoshuaGreen [ad]

@mmurraypolitics
NBC News has confirmed it's a $1M buy in 10 states (WV, WI, MO, MI, ND, FL, OH, IN, MT, PA)

Airing 3/30-4/3
posted by chris24 at 3:25 AM on March 30, 2017 [22 favorites]

is there a connection somehow between all the news about Turkey and all the news about Russia? Like Michael Flynn took money both, met with Putin, and also talked about turning over a Turkish dissident to the Turkish government.

Then there was this story about Turkish bankers in New York trying to smuggle money to Iran in violation of sanctions. They are being represented by the same lawyer who defended the Russians in that money laundering case Preet Bharara was pursuing that recently led to the defenestration. (That lawyer's son may end up replacing Bharara.)

Then there's the stuff about Turkey pissing off the Dutch and French right before their elections, in ways that probably help the nationalists/anti-Islamic parties there, which you wouldn't think would be in Turkey's interests (except I guess that it feeds the "everyone is against us!" narrative.)

Cyprus is in the news a lot too, for being Russian criminals' favorite place to get stolen money out of Russia, and of course Cyprus has some historical connections to Turkey as well.

In Syria, it's confusing, but I gather Turkey doesn't like us arming the Kurds to fight Assad, and Russia doesn't like anyone trying to fight Assad?

Why do Russia and Turkey keep coming up in the same stories, in all these different realms? Is it just gepgraphical proximity that relates them? Are they even allies -- I don't feel like I've read anything saying they are? Turkey wanted into the EU (but has so far been rebuffed) while Russia hates the EU? Are they reaching out to Russia because they've been rebuffed by Europe?

Turkey has traditionally allowed the US to operate military bases there, and served as a military ally? Oh, but during the election, there was that Russian propaganda story Manfort repeated about how a NATO base in Turkey was supposedly attacked by terrorists? (Spoiler: it wasn't.)

What the deal? Where do we stand with Turkey these days? And where do they stand with Putin?
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:35 AM on March 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

Regarding the Business Insider article sebastienbailard linked above: it's amazing how often one answer would be fine, but two answers are worse than none at all.

Not as if this administration has any history with getting into trouble by providing more information than necessary.

FRANKEN: If there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?
SESSIONS: Senator Franken, I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have — did not have communications with the Russians, and I'm unable to comment on it.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:58 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

is there a connection somehow between all the news about Turkey and all the news about Russia?

There's also the founder of Bayrock, Tevfik Arif, who has popped up in some of the Trump/Russia articles, ran Bayrock out of Trump Tower during the Trump Soho stuff, ran hotel real estate in Turkey previously, supposedly gained Turkish citizenship, was later raided and charged by Turkish police for prostitution and sex trafficking underage Russian girls off the Turkish coast (which is rumored to be part of why Trump ended up not campaigning in 2012, as the case was still very much in the news in 2011), was then fortunate enough to have those charges dropped a year later.?.., and is now believed to be living in Turkey, although there isn't much news on him lately. The Bayrock news usually focuses on Felix Sater because of his direct ties to Russian crime, but wonder what his old boss is up to now.
posted by p3t3 at 4:20 AM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

FWIW, Erdogan is unhappy with EU, for several reasons, and there was a rapprochement between Turkey and Russia several months ago. It also makes perfect sense for Russia and Turkey to ally up around Syria, since the only really successful fighters against ISIS are Kurds, some of them Turkish.
posted by mumimor at 4:27 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Before Trump's 70th day in office, outside group is airing ads to prop up his numbers. 1st reported by @JoshuaGreen [ad ]

What a sad ad. Conspicuously missing from Trump's "accomplishments": a single legislative accomplishment.
posted by dis_integration at 5:13 AM on March 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

video: Q: Did Russia interfere in the election?

Putin: “[As Reagan said], Read my lips — no”

(Of course, the person who said that was Poppy Bush.)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:23 AM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

_{Now you are demanding . . . So you think Democrats are the problem?

JFC not sure how you read that from my question but no, and no, and I'm perfectly aware of Republican obstructionism and brinksmanship based on fear of a black president over the last decades thanks very much.}
posted by aspersioncast at 5:35 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Putin: “[As Reagan said], Read my lips — no”

(Of course, the person who said that was Poppy Bush.)

And he ended up doing the opposite of what he said.
posted by drezdn at 5:40 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

Or Adam Schiff?

As his constituent, I periodically let Lieu's office know that he has my vote if he primaries Feinstein. And since Lieu isn't eligible to be president I say we leave this lane for Lieu and get Schiff on a VP track.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:48 AM on March 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

T.D. Strange It's worse than that, they choose college basketball over people [...] Duke and UNC were facing down the prospect of no home NCAA tournament sites for 6 years, that's the real motivation behind repeal if it comes to pass.

The USA has a long history of accomplishing good things by means that, when examined, are icky in the extreme. The first child abuse case was prosecuted, for example, under a law banning cruelty to animals. Because laws banning cruelty to children didn't exist at the time.

And, IIRC, back in 1978 one of the big pressures that convinced the Mormons to decree that, hey presto God changed his mind and black people **DO** have souls [1] after all, was pressure that would have kept BYU from participating in college sports.

So I'll take my victories where I can get them, even if those victories are delivered for reasons that are stupid. Of course the motive for repealing the bathroom bill **should** be humanitarian understanding, empathy, and a commitment to justice and equality. But I'll take "it'll hurt basketball" if it gets the job done. Getting people to do the right thing is hard enough that I'm not going to quibble over whether or not the lever used was the lever I'd prefer.

[1] Or the right kind of soul, or whatever the bizarre bullshit they had excusing why they discriminated against black people.
posted by sotonohito at 5:55 AM on March 30, 2017 [48 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
The Freedom Caucus will hurt the entire Republican agenda if they don't get on the team, & fast. We must fight them, & Dems, in 2018!

He said he'd bring americans together, and apart from the neofacist 30% he's doing a great job.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:40 AM on March 30, 2017 [26 favorites]

Daily Beast:

A complaint filed with the Justice Department’s National Security Division as the 2016 presidential campaign kicked into gear alleged that Breitbart was acting as a de facto foreign agent for El-Gindy by providing him with friendly coverage. The Daily Beast obtained a copy of the complaint through a Freedom of Information Act request.
El-Gindy, who was first elected to Egypt’s parliament in 2005, has found common ground with Breitbart in his staunch opposition to the country’s Muslim Brotherhood and Mohamed Morsi, the former president backed by the Islamist group who was unseated in a 2013 uprising. El-Gindy later joined a political party backed by Egypt’s current president, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, who has received favorable Breitbart coverage since then.

posted by OnceUponATime at 6:40 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Freedom Caucus will hurt the entire Republican agenda if they don't get on the team, & fast. We must fight them, & Dems, in 2018!

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHA. God. The same people who voted for those Freedom Caucus Christo-fascists are also known as "your base."
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:43 AM on March 30, 2017 [45 favorites]

Didn't he just say on Monday that he wanted to work with the Dems instead of the Freedom Caucus? What an idiot.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:49 AM on March 30, 2017 [13 favorites]

The Freedom Caucus will hurt the entire Republican agenda if they don't get on the team, & fast. We must fight them, & Dems, in 2018!

Dude, if you think the GOP establishment hasn't already measured you for a casket, you are even dumber than I think you are, and I've compared you unfavorably to my toddler.
posted by Etrigan at 6:51 AM on March 30, 2017 [25 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
The Freedom Caucus will hurt the entire Republican agenda if they don't get on the team, & fast. We must fight them, & Dems, in 2018!

I'm no political scientician, but I think the first rule of Twitter is, make sure you don't actually contradict yourself in the space of 140 characters; try to spread it out over the course of a couple tweets, and hope people get distracted and wander off before they see you destroy your own credibility.

YOU CAN'T GET THEM ON YOUR TEAM IF YOU'VE OPENLY DECLARED YOUR INTENT TO FIGHT THEM. YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT, DONNY.
posted by Mayor West at 6:56 AM on March 30, 2017 [32 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump The Freedom Caucus will hurt the entire Republican agenda if they don't get on the team, & fast. We must fight them, & Dems, in 2018! [real]

I didn't think a Trump Tweet tantrum could fill my heart with sheer, undiluted, joy but I've been proven wrong.

Trump attacking the people who voted him into office. That's beautiful. It looks like all the people predicting the Trump tearing the Republican Party apart were right after all. Oh I hope that stays up! Oh I hope the Freedom Caucus fires back and it pisses Trump off so he keeps attacking them!

The sight of my enemies attacking one another is glorious to behold. Oh what a day! What a lovely day!
posted by sotonohito at 6:57 AM on March 30, 2017 [34 favorites]

So which wing of the GOP is Trump putting himself in? The Leninists or the Maoists?
posted by PenDevil at 6:57 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Just imagine how fucked we'd all be if he weren't precisely this type and degree of insane.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:58 AM on March 30, 2017 [27 favorites]

He said he'd bring americans together, and apart from the neofacist 30% he's doing a great job

Heh, seriously. If it weren't for the daily ontological horror and despair that comes with it, it would be downright inspiring to see so many people unified around a common cause.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:58 AM on March 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

This must have been how the fellowship of the ring felt when Saruman recalled his armies to fight off the attack of the Ents.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:00 AM on March 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

237 Republicans in the House of Representatives.
- 29 Freedom Caucus members.
= 47.8% (or 435).
They could go from a majority to a plurality.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:03 AM on March 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

So which wing of the GOP is Trump putting himself in? The Leninists or the Maoists?

The Splittists.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:03 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Let the fratricide begin! Now Corker is going after Ryan. What a day!

@SenBobCorker
We have come a long way in our country when the speaker of one party urges a president NOT to work with the other party to solve a problem.
posted by chris24 at 7:06 AM on March 30, 2017 [37 favorites]

> Just imagine how fucked we'd all be if he weren't precisely this type and degree of insane.

Yes, but - and I say this in all honesty - he probably wouldn't have gotten elected if he weren't precisely this type and degree of insane.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:07 AM on March 30, 2017 [18 favorites]

And they're already doubling down on attacking the Freedom Caucus. Hahaha.

@JDiamond1
Does Trump want Freedom Caucus members to be primaried? Trump Spox @SHSanders45: "The President’s tweet speaks for itself."
posted by chris24 at 7:10 AM on March 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

How many tigers can one political party ride anyways?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:11 AM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

Depends how quickly they're eating their faces.
posted by Mayor West at 7:14 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

Are they holding the 2020 Republican Presidential primaries in a glass jar? That should be one of the lessons learned from last time.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:18 AM on March 30, 2017

back in 1978 one of the big pressures that convinced the Mormons to decree that, hey presto God changed his mind and black people **DO** have souls [1] after all, was pressure that would have kept BYU from participating in college sports.

Wut.

Sonofa- . . !
TIL.
posted by petebest at 7:19 AM on March 30, 2017 [13 favorites]

The Intelligence Committee is on CSpan, Senator Warner (D-VA) is giving a straightforward overview on Russia's involvement in the 2016 election. "This is not fake news. This is absolutely what happened to us."
posted by erisfree at 7:21 AM on March 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

Does Trump want Freedom Caucus members to be primaried? Trump Spox @SHSanders45: "The President’s tweet speaks for itself."

Primaried by who? The left? They are literally too right for Trump. How the fuck are they going to drag the party back towards the center now?
posted by Talez at 7:22 AM on March 30, 2017

And we have our first Freedom Caucus reply. Let's get ready to RUMBLE.

@RepThomasMassie
@realDonaldTrump it's a swamp not a hot tub. We both came here to drain it. SwampCare polls 17%. sad
posted by chris24 at 7:24 AM on March 30, 2017 [39 favorites]

>sex trafficking underage Russian girls off the Turkish coast

So, actual Pizzagate as opposed to fake Pizzagate

Just to be clear, the fake Pizzagate has actual pizza, but the actual Pizzagate only has fake pizza.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:27 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

> But no: that was the real Donald Trump. Unfortunately.

"That's what really happened."
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:28 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

You'll be the one complaining when I am gone. /Hamilton

Americans’ opposition to repealing Obamacare grows, particularly among Republicans

Support for repeal among Rs dropped 11 points in a month.
posted by chris24 at 7:30 AM on March 30, 2017 [19 favorites]

SwampCare polls 17%

That's almost better than Republicare.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:31 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

He's on a roll. Now it's the First Amendment.

@realDonaldTrump
The failing @nytimes has disgraced the media world. Gotten me wrong for two solid years. Change libel laws?
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:32 AM on March 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

You know, prior to this presidency, I never knew what schadenfreude felt like. The idea of it always made me vaguely uncomfortable.

But now? now I understand. And I agree, it's glorious.
posted by INFJ at 7:33 AM on March 30, 2017 [26 favorites]

I wouldn't put it past either Trump or Bannon to think that reaching out to Democrats in private while also shitting on the Freedom Caucus in public is some kind of genius negotiating tactic. Like, if you're a person who doesn't actually believe in anything, you might think you can judo your opposition into completely flipping their entire political platform by creating an "enemy of my enemy" for them to align with while yourself feinting toward the center.

But some Democrats, at least, actually do believe in the party platform. And most of them aren't as stupid as the North Carolina Dems.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:33 AM on March 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

I'm sorry, I really think he has dementia.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:33 AM on March 30, 2017 [30 favorites]

The fact that Trump doesn't know that Freedom Caucus voters are his base is pretty astounding. I knew he wasn't particularly interested in details, but that's one step removed from not knowing the difference between Republicans and Democrats.

Does he actually know the difference between Republicans and Democrats, though? I suspect that if one asked him, he probably wouldn't be able to get much beyond "Republican good freedom America job-creators Democrat evil socialism elitist hate America".

But that's just because he's (now) on Team GOP. I don't know that he has much in the way of a concept of the basic moral and philosophical differences among, say, Justin Amash, Susan Collins, Nancy Pelosi and Bernie Sanders.

It's tribalism all the way down to the turtles. (The real ones, not Mitch.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:34 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump fails to realize that his approach to deal-making, deals that screw the weak, revenge against enemies, bullying everyone including allies, has zero chance of succeeding in politics.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:35 AM on March 30, 2017 [14 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
The failing @nytimes has disgraced the media world. Gotten me wrong for two solid years. Change libel laws?

The best part is that he genuinely does not realize that he just drove millions of clicks to nytimes.com.
posted by Etrigan at 7:35 AM on March 30, 2017 [22 favorites]

In his more lucid moments (which are fewer and more far between all the time), he could probably express a mutual disdain for both parties as "establishment elites."
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:36 AM on March 30, 2017

You know, prior to this presidency, I never knew what schadenfreude felt like. The idea of it always made me vaguely uncomfortable.

How are you able to pivot to schadenfreude from the base emotional level of existential horror? I wish to subscribe to your newsletter please
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:38 AM on March 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

The full results [pdf] of the new PPP poll are up (results teased on Maddow last night).

This issue has made Paul Ryan into the most unpopular politician in the country. At the start of the Trump administration he had a 33% approval rating, with 43% of voters disapproving of him. Now his approval has plunged to 21%, with his disapproval spiking all the way up to 61%. Ryan's particularly seen his image crater with Trump voters- what was a 53/23 approval rating with them in mid-January is now negative at 35/41.

Congress as a whole isn't doing too well in the wake of the health care discussion, with its approval rating as a body standing at 11%, with 68% of voters disapproving of it. Mitch McConnell has a 19% approval rating, with 54% of voters disapproving of him but for the first time ever that at least gives him a better net approval rating than Ryan has. Democrats lead the generic Congressional ballot 48-43 at this early point in the cycle.

The crosstabs showing opinions of Trump voters are, as ever, depressing.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:40 AM on March 30, 2017 [14 favorites]

Does he actually know the difference between Republicans and Democrats, though?

I can only imagine the word salad that would result if he was asked to explain the philosophical differences between the two parties. And that's a crazy thing to say about a sitting president.
posted by diogenes at 7:40 AM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

The klaxon just went off in Ivanka's new office. Time to open the distract-dad-kit containing the latest issue of Golf Digest and a tuna sandwich.
posted by PenDevil at 7:41 AM on March 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

How are you able to pivot to schadenfreude from the base emotional level of existential horror?

You have to allocate points into your "righteous anger" and "indignation" skills. You can't put them all in Existential Horror if you want to make it past this first ~~dungeon~~ presidency year.
posted by INFJ at 7:43 AM on March 30, 2017 [17 favorites]

Some folks were suggesting pitching Trump 'Medicare for all' as a way to give him an easy win on healthcare to get single payer. I'm thinking that's pretty impossible now, as anything he gets near becomes instantly poisoned. He'll be the first president to make passing legislation harder by supporting it.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:44 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

I hate to be a downer on this conversation, but what if Trump actually succeeds in cleaving the Freedom Caucus from the Republican base and gaining more power for himself? I'm thinking that autocrats always end up consuming those who put them in power. Or is this just a delusional idea in this case?
posted by Erberus at 7:44 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

More shots fired from the Freedom Caucus. popcorn.gif

@justinamash
It didn't take long for the swamp to drain @realDonaldTrump. No shame, Mr. President. Almost everyone succumbs to the D.C. Establishment.
posted by chris24 at 7:45 AM on March 30, 2017 [21 favorites]

chris24: Fiorina calls for special prosecutor, independent commission to conduct Russia investigation
"We've got to have either a special prosecutor or an independent commission, and that's still the right answer," Fiorina told the "John Fredericks Show." "And every day that goes by, it becomes clearer it's the right answer because the Democrats will not let this go, and the American people need to be reassured about what actually happened here."

Let me get this straight - as a Republican, you know something's the right thing to do when the Democrats will not let it go?

Please remind me, dear Republican candidate, why should we vote for Republicans?
posted by filthy light thief at 7:45 AM on March 30, 2017 [24 favorites]

Time to open the distract-dad-kit containing the latest issue of Golf Digest and a tuna sandwich.

Right, like he's ever eaten an Omega-3 in his life. I'd be shocked if he ever ate a vegetable that wasn't a potato.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:45 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

The klaxon just went off in Ivanka's new office. Time to open the distract-dad-kit containing the latest issue of Golf Digest and a tuna sandwich.

She glances at the box labeled "Kit de Branlette" that was purchased in a dank corner of Montreal, and prays "please Baal, not today."
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 7:47 AM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

Add this one to the pile:

Michael Flynn Jr.: Why is @realDonaldTrump siding w/ estab Repubs (which we know r closet Dems) and looney Dems like Pelosi and Schumer? NOT WHAT WE VOTED FOR
posted by diogenes at 7:47 AM on March 30, 2017 [22 favorites]

You have to allocate points into your "righteous anger" and "indignation" skills. You can't put them all in Existential Horror if you want to make it past this first dungeon presidency year.

SCROTUS: "I want to both insult the Freedom caucus, declare I want to work with Democrats, and also destroy the Democrats in 2018"
DM: "Roll Chutzpah check, add to charisma"
SCROTUS: "Natural 20 believe me! So add to my BIG LEAGUE charisma and.... 38!"
DM: "You've pissed off everyone in Washington and only a few sycophants are left on your side. The rest vow to destroy you once given a good opportunity."
SCROTUS: "FAKE NEWS! FAILING DM!"
posted by Talez at 7:47 AM on March 30, 2017 [21 favorites]

Reason Magazine's reaction to "Trump vs the Freedom Caucus" has been fun to watch.

They have a quote from Massie that makes me think he is also a little nervous about the possibility of civil war/domestic terrorism. And that the Freedom Caucus may be little afraid of their own base...

"The biggest risk of this is going to be if he comes here and he doesn't do what he said, and if he becomes establishment, then the next revolution is not going to be at the ballot box. I mean they are literally going to be here with pitchforks and torches if electing Donald Trump didn't change anything. What the hell is going to change anything? That's what I think may be the next step."
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:47 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

because the Democrats will not let this go, and the American people need to be reassured about what actually happened here.

Heh, Fiorina and I apparently have very different opinions about the likely outcome of an investigation by an independent commission.
posted by diogenes at 7:50 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump's 100th day in office will be April 29th, the day after the Continuing Resolution expires.

So we could be celebrating his 100th day in office with a government shutdown.
posted by darkstar at 7:51 AM on March 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

Meanwhile, at the Senate Intelligence Committee, Clinton Watts just opined that Little Marco Rubio was the target and victim of Russian bot campaigning.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:52 AM on March 30, 2017 [12 favorites]

Let me get this straight - as a Republican, you know something's the right thing to do when the Democrats will not let it go? Until then, it's unclear what to do?

To be fair, her line of reasoning is:

1. Trump is obviously innocent. (she doesn't believe this, but she's talking to the base)
2. Democrats are making a big deal out of nothing. (It's nothing because of Axiom 1)
3. So what harm can an independent prosecutor do, since Trump will obviously be exonerated? (of course, she's thinking, "Fuck you, you misogynistic swine.")

It's a pretty good shiv.

Heh, Fiorina and I apparently have very different opinions about the likely outcome of an investigation by an independent commission.

I guarantee you that you share her opinion in the outcome. She hates Donald with the fire of 10,000 suns.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:52 AM on March 30, 2017 [30 favorites]

So we could be celebrating his 100th day in office with a government shutdown.

Considering Trump/Ryan will need either the Freedom Caucus or Dems to pass a CR, that just got a lot more likely today.
posted by chris24 at 7:53 AM on March 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

If I was Michael Flynn, I don't think I'd want my son getting into a Twitter fight with the President. I think I'd want my family to lay low and focus on helping me stay out of jail.
posted by diogenes at 7:56 AM on March 30, 2017 [16 favorites]

You know who else started a two front war?
posted by chris24 at 7:58 AM on March 30, 2017 [62 favorites]

I guarantee you that you share her opinion in the outcome. She hates Donald with the fire of 10,000 suns.

Yeah, your summary makes sense.
posted by diogenes at 7:59 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Y'all, I think something is imploding and exploding, but I don't think it's Obamacare...
posted by overglow at 8:01 AM on March 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'm sorry, I really think he has dementia

Maybe but who can tell the difference here between that and him simply being a tremendous asshole with no impulse control?
posted by phearlez at 8:02 AM on March 30, 2017 [17 favorites]

We crossed the 3,000 comment threshold earlier today - is anyone working on a new thread? If not, I'll post one in a few hours.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:04 AM on March 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

Meanwhile, at the Senate Intelligence Committee, Clinton Watts just opined that Little Marco Rubio was the target and victim of Russian bot campaigning.
In the primary? Or Chuck Schumer's hand picked "former" Republican Senate candidate Patrick Murphy couldn't even win with Russian interference against Rubio?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:04 AM on March 30, 2017

DeVos: Picking a school should be like choosing among Uber, Lyft or a taxi: How many of you got here today in an Uber, or Lyft, or another ridesharing service? Did you choose that because it was more convenient than hoping a taxi would drive by? Even if you didn’t use a ridesharing service, I’m sure most of you at least have the app on your phone.

Just as the traditional taxi system revolted against ridesharing, so too does the education establishment feel threatened by the rise of school choice. In both cases, the entrenched status quo has resisted models that empower individuals.

Nobody mandates that you take an Uber over a taxi, nor should they. But if you think ridesharing is the best option for you, the government shouldn’t get in your way.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:05 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

In awful people being awful news, Brownback just vetoed the Medicaid expansion in KS.
posted by chris24 at 8:06 AM on March 30, 2017 [24 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: Failing face will hurt the entire agenda if they don't get on the team, & fast. We must fight them, & CUT OFF NOSE!

@realDonaldTrump: AAAaaahhh! AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

@realDonaldTrump: Nobody could have predicted this terrible outcome! Fault of face, Democrats!
posted by leotrotsky at 8:07 AM on March 30, 2017 [17 favorites]

I'm sorry, I really think he has dementia

Maybe but who can tell the difference here between that and him simply being a tremendous asshole with no impulse control?

¿Por que no los dos?
posted by azpenguin at 8:07 AM on March 30, 2017 [19 favorites]

HuffPo twitter: Mike Pence will cast the tie-breaking vote on a motion to allow states to deny Title X family planning funds to Planned Parenthood.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:07 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Considering Trump/Ryan will need either the Freedom Caucus or Dems to pass a CR, that just got a lot more likely today.

I'm not sure it did. The FC folks are true believers and were always going to be an impediment to getting something through that could pass the filibuster over on the senate side. It's fun to watch Trump start intra-party warfare but the FC folks are ideologues first, even before their egos. They were willing to burn their chance to do something on ACA repeal because it wasn't Enough. They weren't going to compromise on a CR.

If dummy had resisted swiping at the democrats in the same tweet it might have even seemed strategic, in that light. But he can't ever put aside his need to elevate his identity - whatever that is this week - by tearing down others. So I think this didn't him no favors but any impact on the FC nutters is probably minor.
posted by phearlez at 8:09 AM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

DeVos: Picking a school should be like choosing among Uber, Lyft or a taxi

I don't think this is a metaphor that is going to resonate with working-class white people in middle America, for what it's worth.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:10 AM on March 30, 2017 [64 favorites]

Regarding the welcome signs that North Carolina's odious HB2 (the so-called bathroom bill") will be repealed: It's all about the ideology until the state/personal coffers take a hit.

Just like in Indiana, when Mike Pence himself backed down from a bill he himself championed.

It's yet another clear signal that the Republican Party will implement the religious right's agenda up to the point where it costs the state money, and no farther. In other words, they're mostly being played for suckers, and the alliance between religion and politics is as corrupt as some people warned back in the heady days of the so-called "Moral Majority."
.
posted by Gelatin at 8:12 AM on March 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

Notes from the Senate hearing:

Rubio makes a valiant attempt to nudge the investigation away from the campaign by shifting the focus to what Russia is up to now.
posted by diogenes at 8:13 AM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

Finding a school should be like finding a school, not some shit metaphor, but iDVD you're gonna make a metaphor it should have decent well funded public transport as well as throwing your money to technology billionaires.
posted by Artw at 8:13 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

DeVos: Picking a school should be like choosing yacht cushions.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:13 AM on March 30, 2017 [41 favorites]

Heh, Fiorina and I apparently have very different opinions about the likely outcome of an investigation by an independent commission.

Fiorina in a few months: "I am shocked, shocked, to find ~~gambling~~ evidence of Russian collusion in this establishment!" *breaks open champagne*
posted by corb at 8:13 AM on March 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

DeVos: Picking a school should be like choosing which of your house eunuchs to throw to the eels in a fit of pique
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:14 AM on March 30, 2017 [29 favorites]

DeVos: Picking a school should be like choosing among Uber, Lyft or a taxi:

Just as a reminder, Betsy DeVos's father is a billionaire, and she only moved out of his house when she married another billionaire. If she has ever in her life taken any of those three things, I will purchase a hat for which to eat.
posted by Etrigan at 8:14 AM on March 30, 2017 [43 favorites]

Reading this morning's developments I'm pretty sure I grew an inch or two and I feel like I could out-squat Ryan. This keeps up and I'll become a goddamn x-man.

(Pro-tip: feed on the schadenfreude. Turn it into sweet dopamine fuel for the resistance.)
posted by schadenfrau at 8:14 AM on March 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

Picking a school should be like choosing among Louis Vuitton, Chanel, and Gucci!
posted by diogenes at 8:15 AM on March 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

Actually, I take it back. It's a perfect metaphor. "You know how nobody you know uses Uber, Lyft, or a taxi, because they don't really make sense for the area in which you live? Keep that in mind when you consider that Betsy DeVos wants choosing a school to be like choosing between Uber, Lyft and a taxi."
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:15 AM on March 30, 2017 [48 favorites]

Fiorina in a few months: "I am shocked, shocked, to find gambling evidence of Russian collusion in this establishment!" *breaks open champagne*

(sotto voce) "How you like my face now, bitch?"
posted by leotrotsky at 8:15 AM on March 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

I hate to be a downer on this conversation, but what if Trump actually succeeds in cleaving the Freedom Caucus from the Republican base and gaining more power for himself?

What does that actually look like, though? I guess you're positing a scenario where the FC Republicans all get successfully primaried by loyal Trumpites and then all of them also win against their Democratic challengers? It's certainly within the realm of plausibility, but it relies on a lot of things breaking Trump's way that currently are not.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:15 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

DeVos: Picking a school should be like choosing among Uber, Lyft or a taxi

I don't think this is a metaphor that is going to resonate with working-class white people in middle America, for what it's worth.

Or anyone where that Lyft and Uber don't operate, which is much of the "in between" US, TBH. Uber said it covers 75 percent of the US population in 2015, but getting to 100% is not feasible. Why driving for Uber isn't worth it (to drivers) in small towns: a case study.

School, however, is a right for all students.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:16 AM on March 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

We crossed the 3,000 comment threshold earlier today - is anyone working on a new thread? If not, I'll post one in a few hours.

I started to make one this morning, but after crafting six links to the latest crap Trump and his ilk have done I got really disheartened and had to quit and go take a shower. Sorry.

I mean, key institutions of the federal government are now prohibited from even talking about climate change and emissions reductions. Key agencies are being headed by people who are on the record as saying they wanted to destroy that department. An oil company is urging the administration to be more environmentally conscious.

The President has just appointed two completely unqualified members of his family to be senior advisor and senior assistant, with far-reaching responsibilities, but completely unreviewable roles. The Chair of the House Committee responsible for investigating possible treason by our President is acting like he's having a mental breakdown.

The GOP just tried to eliminate insurance coverage for 20 million Americans and were only thwarted by a narrow margin because some of them thought the proposed legislation wasn't draconian enough. Nevertheless, they did just elect to allow ISPs to sell your private information. And there are actual Nazis in the White House!

And we're still only in the third month of this nightmare...
posted by darkstar at 8:16 AM on March 30, 2017 [38 favorites]

I'm running out of "Christ, what an asshole!"s.
posted by jferg at 8:16 AM on March 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

The Freedom Caucus has been a thorn in the side of the rest of the Congressional Caucus since it formed. They are the ones who drummed Boehner out, and they are the reason no one wanted the Speaker gig and we wound up with Ryan, and they are a big reason why legislation can't get passed. All long before Trump. Like, he's not wrong that they're obstructing his agenda. Unless you are ideologically pure in their eyes, they will obstruct. It's what they do.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:16 AM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

"I live in a rural area and own a car. Why should I pay for an Uber, Lyft or taxi unless I'm drunk?"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:17 AM on March 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

Choosing a school should be like deciding between Chateuax Margot 2009, Domaine de la Romanee-Conti 1990, or a Cabernet Sauvignon 1941.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:20 AM on March 30, 2017 [18 favorites]

Unless you are ideologically pure in their eyes, they will obstruct.

And fortunately for them, ideologically purity is practically impossible, which saves them the trouble of ever, under any circumstances, attempting to pass legislation or govern.

It's a pretty sweet gig. That same job on the left only gets you the Green party nomination for president.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:20 AM on March 30, 2017 [18 favorites]

"I live in a rural area and own a car. Why should I pay for an Uber, Lyft or taxi ~~unless I'm drunk?~~"

I take it you don't live in the country.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:21 AM on March 30, 2017 [25 favorites]

Mr. Trump’s message on Twitter was not impulsive: Mr. Bannon and his staff have been closely monitoring the president’s posts and using them as leverage in negotiations

if this is strategy, what will it look like when they start flailing?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:21 AM on March 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

Egg's take:

Yes, Mr. President, use your 35% approval rating and mean tweets to intimidate the Democrats and conservatives representing most of America!

Note that he refers to the Freedom Caucus as "conservatives representing most of America." I don't think we need to worry about Trump successfully removing the Freedom Caucus from the Republican party.
posted by diogenes at 8:22 AM on March 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

Choosing a school should be like deciding between Fiji, Evian, and water that the EPA let the local dry cleaner dump its waste into.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:22 AM on March 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

chris24: Brownback just vetoed the Medicaid expansion in KS.

Kansas Governor Sam Brownback on Thursday vetoed a bill expanding eligibility for Medicaid under the federal Affordable Care Act (ACA), saying he could not support legislation that provided tax dollars to Planned Parenthood.

Apparently, the Legislature was shy of mustering the two-thirds vote necessary to override a veto.

Say It With Us Now: Most Federal Funding for Planned Parethood is Through Medicaid Reimbursements for Preventive Health Care
posted by filthy light thief at 8:22 AM on March 30, 2017 [25 favorites]

diogenes, I parsed that as the [(Democrats and conservatives) representing most of America]. That is to say, the two groups combined hold more than 50% of the vote, reducing the rest of the Republicans to a plurality and not a majority in the house.
posted by Freon at 8:24 AM on March 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

Mr. Trump’s message on Twitter was not impulsive: Mr. Bannon and his staff have been closely monitoring the president’s posts and using them as leverage in negotiations

murphy slaw: if this is strategy, what will it look like when they start flailing?

Don't worry about them, they're waving, not drowning.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:25 AM on March 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

Is it possible the Trump tweet at the FreedomCaucus is another example of him trying to take credit for someone else's work? I keep hearing about Ryan et al doing proper whip work to get AHCA back to the floor. If that succeeds, Trump will want the credit for that. Making it look like he intimidated them into submission would fit his model. What a douchenozzle.

And what impact, exactly do you think Trump's tweets will have on Ryan's efforts to whip? On stubborn alpha dominance posturing representatives who've built their careers on ideological purity? I'll give you two guesses.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:27 AM on March 30, 2017

I live in a rural area and own a car. Why should I pay for an Uber, Lyft or taxi unless I'm drunk?"

Honestly, I like more school choice than most here, but even I feel it's important to be honest about the fact it only really works for cities and relatively dense suburbs, and only if you allow choice schools to be picky about admissions. It's essentially enabling "involved parent flight".
posted by corb at 8:27 AM on March 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

And what impact, exactly do you think Trump's tweets will have on Ryan's efforts to whip?

Oh please let it be a circular firing squad
posted by H. Roark at 8:30 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

The bill to "repeal" HB2 is terrible and is being loudly panned by the ACLU, SPLC, and LGBTQ rights organizations.
posted by overglow at 8:31 AM on March 30, 2017 [17 favorites]

Mr. Trump’s message on Twitter was not impulsive: Mr. Bannon and his staff have been closely monitoring the president’s posts and using them as leverage in negotiations

Trump's only negotiation technique is to simply, unabashedly revert to his best alternative to a negotiated agreement. Oddly, this usually works pretty well for him because he tends to only enter into negotiations where his BATNA is just a bit better than his opponent's BATNA. Usually.
posted by klarck at 8:32 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

na na na na na na na na BATNA!

(I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself)
posted by INFJ at 8:33 AM on March 30, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump threatens to 'change libel laws' to go after NY Times

Full on Roman emperor mode. He'll be marrying a horse next.
posted by Artw at 8:34 AM on March 30, 2017 [31 favorites]

The bill to "repeal" HB2 is terrible and is being loudly panned by the ACLU, SPLC, and LGBTQ rights organizations.

Chase Strangio has been particularly savage about this fake compromise. You may remember him as Chelsea Manning's lawyer, but he was also on the ACLU legal team that sued to stop HB2 (Carcaño v. McCrory) in the first place.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:39 AM on March 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

Trump threatens to 'change libel laws' to go after NY Times

AND YET the day the AHCA failed, the first thing he did was call the NY Times and the Washington Post to begin pushing his "it's the Democrats' fault" story.

Also, note he's tweeting this the morning of the Senate Committee hearings. I'm not a 100% believer in the "he tweets the craziest things specifically timed for distraction" theory, but this does fit that rather well.
posted by dnash at 8:41 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

MetaFilter: where people actually understand "Metafilter: the daily ontological Хорошо"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:46 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

I live in a rural area and own a car. Why should I pay for an Uber, Lyft or taxi unless I'm drunk?"

It's not so much 'why should I pay', as much as 'I could not pay an Uber, Lyft or taxi enough to come to my house because all of these services require population density to be marketable'

The more I'm thinking of it, the more I'm liking this analogy! Like how the cab options are generally better in population-dense areas but are cost-prohibitive and oftentimes completely unavailable in more dodgy urban areas, so residents are stuck relying maybe relying on Uber and Lyft, or more likely trying to cobble together a trip through a vastly underfunded public transit system. If you choose to walk instead you meet a lot of nutty Christian people on streetcorners.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:48 AM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump threatens to 'change libel laws' to go after NY Times

I mean, that's a serious threat, because he's so good at getting legislation passed.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:48 AM on March 30, 2017 [24 favorites]

David Corn: 'Former FBI agent Clint Watts tells Sen. intel. committee: "follow the trail of dead Russians."'

I never asked to live in a spy movie universe, and yet.
posted by galaxy rise at 8:52 AM on March 30, 2017 [58 favorites]

I have to say, these Senate committee hearings have been quality.

Clinton Watts also answered "Why did Putin ramp up his efforts in the US now?" with (paraphrasing) "As it turns out, Trump's team was more than happy to carry the water, so he'd be an idiot to not take advantage."
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:55 AM on March 30, 2017 [48 favorites]

So we're getting the obvious but unsayable on record? Maybe this isn't going to be as toothless as I thought.
posted by Artw at 8:58 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

The best part is no one has raised the issue of OMG THE LEAKS!!!eleventy! (Though to be fair they're talking to Russia experts, not current heads of intelligence agencies, so the focus is a bit different.)

The House really is a clown car.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:00 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Think anyone in 45's camp is smart enough to realize what's happening?
posted by schadenfrau at 9:01 AM on March 30, 2017

Also to clarify the focus of the hearing today isn't "What did the President know and when did he know it?" but just "Did Putin's apparatus vigorously engage in a hacking and disinfo campaign during the 2016-16 election? If so: how, and how do we keep it from happening again?"
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:03 AM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

The best part about the "change libel laws threat" is that according to that link there ARE no federal libel laws, only state laws.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:05 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

Paraphrasing Clinton Watts: When I leave here today I'll be hacked and trolled but I've been doing this for years and that doesn't scare me. What scares me is that I don't know where the United States stands with Russia. When I leave here, will anyone have my back?
posted by Room 641-A at 9:10 AM on March 30, 2017 [49 favorites]

tobascodagama I wouldn't put it past either Trump or Bannon to think that reaching out to Democrats in private while also shitting on the Freedom Caucus in public is some kind of genius negotiating tactic.

Holy shit.

It's the PUA thing.

They're trying to neg the Freedom Caucus.

I swear they really are, Trump and Bannon are exactly the kind of people who would be into PUA/MRA/whatever bullshit and would think all that crap about negging was the best advice ever.

They are trying to neg the Freedom Caucus.
posted by sotonohito at 9:11 AM on March 30, 2017 [69 favorites]

there ARE no federal libel laws, only state laws.

Beyond that, Donald Trump has been a public figure for decades and a public political figure for almost as long, and now he's the most public and political of figures. No matter how strict the state libel laws might become, the First Amendment provides a core level of protection for reporting on such figures:

The constitutional guarantees require, we think, a federal rule that prohibits a public official from recovering damages for a defamatory falsehood relating to his official conduct unless he proves that the statement was made with "actual malice"—that is, with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not.

The New York Times is intimately familiar with that case (New York Times v. Sullivan), and it sets a very high bar for someone like Trump.
posted by jedicus at 9:14 AM on March 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

There was heavy negging of their base during the election, too.

(Kamala Harris now up in the Senate hearings if anyone wants to drop in.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:15 AM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

the trump org is privately held, right? so donald has never had to negotiate with his board of directors or stockholders. his entire dealmaking framework is around 1:1 negotiation, ideally with someone you already have enormous leverage over (because they want your business).

he really has no idea what to do when it comes to coalition building or compromise around an acceptable consensus.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:16 AM on March 30, 2017 [18 favorites]

What I found weird about the Kansas vote on Medicare expansion is why right now? Brownback is likely to take another job soon, so there is a chance the next governor might not veto, right?
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:17 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Did someone share a link for the Senate hearing? If so, I can't find it -- can someone share again?
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:17 AM on March 30, 2017

Guys, I think I love Clinton Watts.

"Russia is better at cyber because they don't care if their trained propagandists may have smoked weed one time."
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:18 AM on March 30, 2017 [71 favorites]

Senate Hearing
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:19 AM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

his entire dealmaking framework is around 1:1 negotiation, ideally with someone you already have enormous leverage over (because they want your business).

His entire dealmaking framework is to make big promises and then have his underlings hammer out more realistic details, and then ignore what they came up with anyway and half-ass the execution and/or refuse to pay his subcontractors.
posted by Etrigan at 9:19 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

The fact that Trump doesn't know that Freedom Caucus voters are his base is pretty astounding.

It's all about him. If they vote for him, great. If they don't, crush them (unless they vote for him during the crushing, then talk about how great they are for him).

It's pretty simple, really. And of course it bespells doom.
posted by petebest at 9:20 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

there ARE no federal libel laws, only state laws.

And also the little tidbit that the truth is an absolute defense against libel claims. Donny doesn't do so well against that standard.
posted by chris24 at 9:21 AM on March 30, 2017 [22 favorites]

Expert says Russian bots target Trump when he's online (from The Hill's live coverage of the Senate intelligence hearing, timestamp: 11:58 p.m.)

A cyber expert and former FBI special agent told lawmakers that Russian Twitter bots tweet at President Trump when they know he is online in an effort to push conspiracy theories.

Related: I taught my 5th-graders how to spot fake news. Now they won’t stop fact-checking me.

Imagine a Simon Says style game where I present an article found on the web on a projector. Students research for two to three minutes, then respond by standing or staying seated to signal if they believe the article is true or fake. My students absolutely loved the game. Some refused to go to recess until I gave them another chance to figure out the next article I had queued.
...
I set out to help my students read news more critically, and I feel that these games have shifted the way my students approach online content every day. Time will only tell if this lasts beyond my classroom, but the early impact outcomes are very positive. One unintended consequence is that I now have 33 10-year-old fact-checkers in my classroom that I’ve empowered to call me out if I’m sharing fake news.

Maybe Trump could get his own cadre of fact-checking 5th graders, because if they can do a decent job debunking fake stories in 2-3 minutes, they could really cut down on Trump's junk tweets.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:28 AM on March 30, 2017 [80 favorites]

He'll be marrying a horse next.

Might have made the wrong nomination for the Supreme Court...
posted by nickmark at 9:30 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Heard (by me) on hot mic from Roy Godson as the hearings are adjourned:

"Pretty good. Almost too good!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:32 AM on March 30, 2017 [13 favorites]

"Well in England they have a system where you can actually sue if someone says something wrong," Trump said. "Our press is allowed to say whatever they want and get away with it.

The flagrant screaming hypocrisy of this after all of his defamatory lies against Clinton and Obama is just slaying me.
posted by puddledork at 9:34 AM on March 30, 2017 [22 favorites]

From that recent batch by Public Policy Polling: If proven Trump team did directly work with Russia, 53% think Trump should resign to 39% who say stay in office.

39% of respondents are totally comfortable with treason if it works out in support of their bigotry.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:35 AM on March 30, 2017 [83 favorites]

You know who else started a two front war?

George W. Bush
posted by vibrotronica at 9:35 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

"Pretty good. Almost too good!"

What do you think he meant by that?
posted by diogenes at 9:36 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Fyi The hearing will reconvene on C-SPAN st 2pm EST.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:36 AM on March 30, 2017

Beats me! He clearly was expecting more hostility and push-back than he got, though.

It was so sane and intelligent compared the gibbering morons in the House. It almost makes one wish for a unicameral legislature, and then I remember who my own Senator is.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:39 AM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

Elizabeth Spiers: I worked for Jared Kushner. He’s the wrong businessman to reinvent government.
posted by zachlipton at 9:40 AM on March 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

The Hill: Ryan breaks with Trump on healthcare: No Dems

but Ryan! Hey! Hey! Imagine this: move to the center-left, which is still totally pro-business, push your party into sanity land, and you'll get the votes of a bi-partisan coalition and you can ignore the nutballs "freedom" caucus entirely. CUT THE GORDIAN KNOT. Don't zig, ZAG. You can do it!
posted by dis_integration at 9:45 AM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ryan has not zagged since Vampire Times.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:48 AM on March 30, 2017 [16 favorites]

but Ryan! Hey! Hey! Imagine this: move to the center-left, which is still totally pro-business, push your party into sanity land, and you'll get the votes of a bi-partisan coalition and you can ignore the nutballs "freedom" caucus entirely. CUT THE GORDIAN KNOT. Don't zig, ZAG. You can do it!

He's a nutball Randian. He doesn't want just business-friendly, he wants to undo the entire New Deal/Great Society social net. He has more in common with the Freedom Caucus than any supposed Republican moderates.
posted by chris24 at 9:48 AM on March 30, 2017 [29 favorites]

He's a nutball Randian.

Yeah. I know. Just find the inability to actually compromise infuriating.

If Ryan did a kegstand at my party, I'd stop holding up his legs. Atlas shrugged and you got beer in your nose.
posted by dis_integration at 9:52 AM on March 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

Relevant to healthcare: John Green on Why Can't America Have a Grown-Up Healthcare Conversation?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:54 AM on March 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

39% of respondents are totally comfortable with treason if it works out in support of their bigotry.

Welp, we have an updated crazy factor when looking at future polls.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:56 AM on March 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

If Ryan did a kegstand at my party, I'd stop holding up his legs. Atlas shrugged and you got beer in your nose.

If he wanted to do a kegstand, I'd insist he pull his own self up by his bootstraps.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:57 AM on March 30, 2017 [29 favorites]

they don't see it as treason, of course. it's just our free-market buddies in Russia making common cause with us against the real enemy, ~~Radical Islamic Terrorism~~ Democrats
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:57 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

If Ryan did a kegstand at my party, I'd stop holding up his legs. Atlas shrugged and you got beer in your nose.

I hear he's a blast at parties, always talking about taking away healthcare.
posted by chris24 at 9:58 AM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

39% of respondents are totally comfortable with treason if it works out in support of their bigotry.

This is kind of the definition of populism, according to this Weekly Sift article, which I may have shared before.

Populism differs from democracy in a few important ways:

- In populism, “the People” isn’t everybody.

- While democracy is “government of the People, by the People, and for the People”, populism can get so focused on the for that it stops caring about the of and by.

- Because democracy is of and by the People, democratic government is defined by process. But populist movements want results.

posted by OnceUponATime at 9:58 AM on March 30, 2017 [16 favorites]

I taught my 5th-graders how to spot fake news. Now they won’t stop fact-checking me....

5th graders are pretty awesome. Sorry for the derail, but this talk of 5th graders makes me want to relate this anecdote.

Last year, I was lobbying against some fracking "regulatory bills" that basically would have opened the door to the fracking industry in Florida. Our vote-count for the final state senate committee had us at dead-even. At the committee hearing, a local school's entire 5th grade class attended, and selected one of their classmates, an 11 year old girl, to testify.

I train grassroots organizations in how to do committee testimony. I've actually thrown out a half-dozen slides and just show the video of this kid testifying these days. This 11 year old girl gave the absolute perfect model of a senate committee bill-hearing testimony. She introduced herself and her group, thanked the Chair and members of the committee, related a very brief anecdote about why the bill was important to her and her cohort, politely asked the members to vote down on the bill, thanked the committee again, and was in and out of there in under two minutes. I mean, kids are cute and all, and can get away with a lot because of it, but she was not cute. She was professional. And she nailed the speech as well as any seasoned lobbyist.

The committee voted the bill down, and the bill's sponsor said "I never thought one of my bills would be killed by a 5th grader." One of the swing votes told me later "yeah, it was really the kid who convinced me."

So, yeah, 5th graders are serious business. You want them on your side.
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:03 AM on March 30, 2017 [118 favorites]

I am (not) eagerly awaiting the re-emergence of the term Jingoism to aptly describe our present regime.
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:04 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

They are trying to neg the Freedom Caucus.

He is trying to neg ideological purists who are so safe in their district they can basically moon him for fun on live TV and get away with it? Who might have agreed with him on other legislation until he made them implacable enemies?

Please! You go ahead! Do it and you're cool!
posted by corb at 10:05 AM on March 30, 2017 [18 favorites]

Because democracy is of and by the People, democratic government is defined by process. But populist movements want results.

In my fantasies, once the "results" become clear, the crazies all go Galt from politics for the foreseeable future rather than face the shame of being losers.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:06 AM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

Sadly it's when they start lynching scapegoats. That's us, BTW.
posted by Artw at 10:09 AM on March 30, 2017

that is some super not helpful defeatist talk there, how about let's not.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:12 AM on March 30, 2017 [15 favorites]

Trump threatens to 'change libel laws' to go after NY Times

The Republican Party's single unifying cry for the past seven years has been "Obamacare has to go!" and Trump couldn't manage to overturn it even with all three branches of the federal government under his party's control. So I'm sure he'll have no problem getting two thirds of the states' legislatures to approve a constitutional amendment undoing the single greatest underpinning of the American experiment, for the sole purpose of letting him stop those mean old reporters at the nation's newspaper of record from reporting the day-to-day adventures of a modern-day Nero.

Let's go get some DEALS done.
posted by Mayor West at 10:13 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Here's a clip of Clinton Watts testifying on Russia, explaining that their objectives are to end the EU and NATO.

Conveniently, those seem to pretty much be Donald "Mr. Brexit" Trump's objectives too.
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 AM on March 30, 2017 [15 favorites]

NYT breaking: 2 White House Officials Helped Give Nunes Intelligence Reports

Several current American officials identified the White House officials as Ezra Cohen-Watnick, the senior director for intelligence at the National Security Council, and Michael Ellis, a lawyer who works on national security issues at the White House Counsel’s Office and formerly worked on the staff of the House Intelligence Committee.

Spicey time in 10 minutes. Get your popcorn ready.
posted by zachlipton at 10:21 AM on March 30, 2017 [32 favorites]

Have any current American officials identified the White House officials?
posted by nickmark at 10:25 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm giving odds that Spicy's head might actually explode.
posted by chris24 at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2017

(did you know 2 White House Officials Helped Give Nunes Intelligence Reports?)
posted by INFJ at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

okay so i have a head cold so the stupid is strong with me, but what possible reason would PEOPLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE have to use Nunes as a go-between with OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE
posted by murphy slaw at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

Officials said the reports consisted primarily of ambassadors and other foreign officials talking about how they were trying to develop contacts within Mr. Trump’s family and inner circle in advance of his inauguration.

The funny thing is that this is precisely what the NSA is supposed to be doing, and everyone, certainly Nunes, knows that. His complaint is that he could read the reports and still figure out who the Trump associates were, which, yeah, even if you call the President-elect "US-PERSON-1," it's going to be obvious from context.

He was handled a nothingburger by the White House, breathlessly repeated it as if it was a scandal, and then rushed back to the White House to make it look like he wasn't in cahoots with them. What a joke.
posted by zachlipton at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

Odds of a 45 minute Spicer delay?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:27 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Mr. Trump’s message on Twitter was not impulsive: Mr. Bannon and his staff have been closely monitoring the president’s posts and using them as leverage in negotiations.

Dan Scavino, an aide who controls Mr. Trump’s official White House Twitter account, recently moved into Mr. Bannon’s West Wing office where he closely monitors social activity by and about the president, according to two officials.

There are people who work for the President who are tasked in part with monitoring what the President does on social media.

There are people whose job is tracking what the President, their boss, does on social media.

In the White House there are staffers who monitor social media produced by their boss, our President.

no matter how I phrase it, it is still bananas all the way down.
posted by winna at 10:27 AM on March 30, 2017 [28 favorites]

what possible reason would PEOPLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE have to use Nunes as a go-between with OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE

I feel like I should be reaching for something like "insulation" or "deniability" here, but all I can really imagine is these guys in the White House are probably really amused by playing Nunes like the pathetic tool he is. They probably send him out for McDonald's and make him pay for it, too. Dude really strikes me as someone who's trying desperately to pledge to the shittiest fraternity ever.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:33 AM on March 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

What he really needs is someone whose job is to stand behind him and occasionally whisper into his ear "Remember, thou art a moron."
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:33 AM on March 30, 2017 [16 favorites]

So, were Trump's tweets this morning about the Times because he knew they had this story?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:34 AM on March 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

So, were Trump's tweets this morning about the Times because he knew they had this story?

Only if Fox & Friends was reporting that the Times had it.
posted by Etrigan at 10:36 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Background chatter waiting for the press briefing is all Nunes.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 10:37 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Does Trump sincerely believe that the NYT's job is to be his PR firm?
posted by thelonius at 10:37 AM on March 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen: So, were Trump's tweets this morning about the Times because he knew they had this story?

Etrigan: Only if Fox & Friends was reporting that the Times had it.

Or Russian bot-masters tweeted at him.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:39 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Two things emerging about those White House officials identified by the current American officials we're hearing so much about:

Cohen-Watnick was a Flynn protege who was about to be reassigned after Flynn left, but Bannon and Kushner overruled McMaster to keep him on.

Ellis is a former Nunes HPSCI staffer.

And another damning thing in here is that the story says Cohen-Watnick started looking at these reports after Trump's wiretapping tweet, which is a pretty clear indication he was searching highly classified intelligence reports to try to prove the President right.

Come watch Spicey not explain any of this, if he ever shows up.
posted by zachlipton at 10:39 AM on March 30, 2017 [30 favorites]

So, were Trump's tweets this morning about the Times because he knew they had this story?

I think as a rule of thumb if he freaks out at the press for no immediately obvious reason it can be conlcuded that: A) they've got dirt on him and have asked for confirmation and.... B) the dirt is good.
posted by Artw at 10:41 AM on March 30, 2017 [20 favorites]

Does Trump sincerely believe that the NYT's job is to be his PR firm?

I suspect the answer is yes. Think about how Trump has used the press his whole life. He'd call up the tabloids and dish gossip about his marriages and divorces, either openly or adopting a fake name and posing as his own spokesman. And they'd eat that stuff up, because the standards for reporting on the personal life of a cartoonish real estate guy were rather different than the standards for reporting on the President of the United States. Nobody looked too hard at his claims about his wealth, nobody spent that much time declaring his businesses failures, and nobody paid that much attention to his personal conduct. And now he's furious he can't just pretend to be "John Barron" and get that fawning press coverage anymore.
posted by zachlipton at 10:45 AM on March 30, 2017 [16 favorites]

Also, I guess we can't say if the president is literally his own source here after requesting the goons trawl for this pretend smoking gun, or if it was the goons acting on their own initiative, but him taking it so personally suggests the former.
posted by Artw at 10:45 AM on March 30, 2017

Haven't watched a Spicer press conference in weeks but I'm excited about this one! What's the over/under on how many times he doesn't answer a question about Nunes before he starts responding to the Nunes questions with "Look, I don't know how many times I can answer this lets just move on.," 3?
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:46 AM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

And another damning thing in here is that the story says Cohen-Watnick started looking at these reports after Trump's wiretapping tweet, which is a pretty clear indication he was searching highly classified intelligence reports to try to prove the President right.

Phil_Hartman_as_Bill_McNeil_Delicious.gif
posted by aspersioncast at 10:47 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Spicer's presser today is going to be an after-Nunes delight!
posted by diogenes at 10:47 AM on March 30, 2017 [69 favorites]

We're gonna need a bigger thread...
posted by Windopaene at 10:48 AM on March 30, 2017 [12 favorites]

At least we've cleared Nunes in that I think he may just be too fucking dumb to be a russian spy. Like there are smarter rocks level dumb...
posted by Artw at 10:50 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Phil_Hartman_as_Bill_McNeil_Delicious.gif

good times...
posted by entropicamericana at 10:51 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

If Ryan did a kegstand at my party, I'd stop holding up his legs. Atlas shrugged and you got beer in your nose.

How did the keg even get paid for? Because you know Ryan and his friends won't chip in their share. Were the kegs provided by the Koch brothers? Maybe some think tank?
posted by srboisvert at 10:52 AM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

Spicer's presser today is going to be an after-Nunes delight!

Spy rackets in sight!
posted by nubs at 10:52 AM on March 30, 2017 [54 favorites]

New thread! New thread!
posted by filthy light thief at 10:53 AM on March 30, 2017 [33 favorites]

Filthy light thief, thank you.
posted by samthemander at 10:55 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

There are people who work for the President who are tasked in part with monitoring what the President does on social media.

There are people whose job is tracking what the President, their boss, does on social media.

In the White House there are staffers who monitor social media produced by their boss, our President.

And none of these people are good at their job.
posted by srboisvert at 11:24 AM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

There are people who work for the President who are tasked in part with monitoring what the President does on social media.

There are people whose job is tracking what the President, their boss, does on social media.

In the White House there are staffers who monitor social media produced by their boss, our President.

A controversial opinion: if the Obama white house didn’t have staff in place for this, it should have, and our current President should be a wake-up call about the modern era.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:55 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Were the kegs provided by the Koch brothers? Maybe some think tank?

Yuengling? Aged in Trump vodka bottles, because it both defies logic and skunks the beer.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:58 AM on March 30, 2017

A controversial opinion: if the Obama white house didn’t have staff in place for this, it should have, and our current President should be a wake-up call about the modern era.

Why? That is a thing you do for a child, not an actual adult.
posted by Artw at 12:00 PM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

if the Obama white house didn’t have staff in place for this, it should have

They did, and were quite open about the fact that most of the @POTUS tweets during the Obama administration were written by staffers and not by the President personally. Those which Obama personally wrote were signed with a "- bho".

The difference being that I'm pretty sure even the ones Obama personally wrote got reviewed by a staffer or two before being posted, as opposed to the current administration where the social media watchdogs apparently see the tweets at the same time as everyone else and are there to try to mitigate the damage after the fact.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:05 PM on March 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

A controversial opinion: if the Obama white house didn’t have staff in place for this, it should have, and our current President should be a wake-up call about the modern era.

I think there's a pretty big difference between having someone who monitors replies to @POTUS and having someone who is monitoring what is tweeted by POTUS.
posted by Etrigan at 12:08 PM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

A controversial opinion: if the Obama white house didn’t have staff in place for this, it should have, and our current President should be a wake-up call about the modern era.

Why? That is a thing you do for a child, not an actual adult.

Communications professionals should absolutely be monitoring every single thing coming out of their organization and organization's leadership. There's nothing unreasonable or silly about that at all, and any org's comms department that ignored an avenue out of some sort of sense of oh that vector is stupid is being unprofessional.

As cjelli says, the issue isn't that monitoring of the message. It's that the Trump staff has to do this in order to have any idea what their boss is prioritizing that day or what he cares about at that moment. A functional organization with a competent leader is doing the equivalent of walking the deck, watching out on the horizon for new shit, and doing some basic maintenance and cleaning. This org has to do this to bail out whatever (often self-inflicted) leak has cropped up in the last hour and try to keep track of where their deranged captain has wandered off to at the moment.
posted by phearlez at 12:10 PM on March 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

That's "having a press office". That is a distinct thing from having a minder for a deranged baby.
posted by Artw at 12:12 PM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

Who exactly is disagreeing with you on that? You responded to what GtM quoted and said which was about monitoring the president's social media. Nobody is arguing that this current orange manbaby requires additional coddling and that said requirement is a Bad Thing, just that monitoring the chief exec's social media is something that should be done under any administration.
posted by phearlez at 12:42 PM on March 30, 2017

Depends how quickly they're eating their faces

Read that as "feces", didn't double-take...
posted by notsnot at 12:54 PM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

All of the points that you all are threshing out are different vectors of bananas in the veritable maelstrom of bananas that is that factoid.

I personally think that the President shouldn't have enough free time to tweet and any social media presence they had prior to taking office should be managed by staff until they are no longer in office.
posted by winna at 1:11 PM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

Today's lovely fanfic daydream: Freedom Caucus, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie, and Corey Booker having friendly drinks together and one of them raising a toast that goes, "We on my side fucking despise what you-all believe, but surely we can all agree that this Trump guy is SUCH A DICK, amirite? And he thinks he's gonna win us over, ha ha ha. Here's mud in your eye!"
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:27 PM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Death in al Ghayil: Women and Children in Yemeni Village Recall Horror of Trump’s “Highly Successful” SEAL Raid

Yemen: Trump Expands U.S. Military Role in Saudi War as Yemenis Brace for Famine

Iona Craig on What Really Happened When U.S. Navy SEALs Stormed a Yemeni Village, Killing Dozens
posted by homunculus at 3:16 PM on March 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

New thread
posted by dinty_moore at 3:23 PM on March 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

Thanks, dinty.
posted by homunculus at 3:45 PM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

I train grassroots organizations in how to do committee testimony. I've actually thrown out a half-dozen slides and just show the video of this kid testifying these days.

Any chance you could share that video, or would we need to pay your consulting fee?
posted by straight at 4:40 PM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]

After seeing Beauty & the Beast last week, I left the theater and started listening to a political podcast and it hit me that President Sex-Criminal's administration is comprised of nothing but Gastons and LeFous.
posted by blueberry at 3:24 PM on April 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

No one...
Bleats like Trump-ston, no one tweets like Trump-ston,
No one has those odd stains on his sheets like Trump-ston
posted by contraption at 11:34 PM on April 2, 2017 [2 favorites]

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