And don't even get me started on alligators...
February 16, 2018 10:12 AM Subscribe
What Color Is a Tennis Ball? — An investigation into a surprisingly divisive question [Marina Koren, The Atlantic]
"The seemingly trivial question tore apart our usually congenial group. Lines were quickly and fiercely drawn, team green against team yellow, as my colleagues debated the very definition of color itself. Swords were brandished in the form of links to HTML color codes or the paint selection at Sherwin-Williams. Attempts to broker a cease-fire, to consider that maybe tennis balls are actually yellow-green—or green-yellow, or chartreuse—were brushed aside. At one point, I lashed out at a colleague who then reminded me we were on the same side."
"The seemingly trivial question tore apart our usually congenial group. Lines were quickly and fiercely drawn, team green against team yellow, as my colleagues debated the very definition of color itself. Swords were brandished in the form of links to HTML color codes or the paint selection at Sherwin-Williams. Attempts to broker a cease-fire, to consider that maybe tennis balls are actually yellow-green—or green-yellow, or chartreuse—were brushed aside. At one point, I lashed out at a colleague who then reminded me we were on the same side."
I mean, they’re yellow and the article says they are yellow. Victory is mine!
posted by Grandysaur at 10:18 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Grandysaur at 10:18 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
Huh. We humans get worked up over some odd shit. Those were a lot of words spent to describe a fight over an object who's color simply falls somewhere on the spectrum between solid yellow and green.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 10:20 AM on February 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 10:20 AM on February 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
What color is a link on MetaFilter (dark or classic theme)?
posted by mbrubeck at 10:20 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 10:20 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
Yes, but which yellow?
posted by MtDewd at 10:20 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by MtDewd at 10:20 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
It's yellow-green. Like, the problem is people are trying to force a clearly in-between color into the category of yellow or green and it doesn't fit because it's in-between. There's only a debate because people insist it has to be one or the other and yet they give no adequate reason why it can't be yellow-green.
There's probably a gender metaphor here but I don't want to go down that road.
posted by brook horse at 10:23 AM on February 16, 2018 [31 favorites]
There's probably a gender metaphor here but I don't want to go down that road.
posted by brook horse at 10:23 AM on February 16, 2018 [31 favorites]
Trick question. Tennis balls are "optic yellow" which is R80 G100 B0 or C20 M0 Y100 B0. They're both green and yellow. 100%. Just depends on what colorspace you're using in your eyeballs.
(For real though, these types of questions are nonsensical. When i see these tennis balls, I literally imagine how I would create the color with pigments and "optic yellow" is greenish yellow. That's just what color it is.)
posted by xyzzy at 10:23 AM on February 16, 2018 [34 favorites]
(For real though, these types of questions are nonsensical. When i see these tennis balls, I literally imagine how I would create the color with pigments and "optic yellow" is greenish yellow. That's just what color it is.)
posted by xyzzy at 10:23 AM on February 16, 2018 [34 favorites]
I love that the photo at the top of this article has a bunch of tennis balls on a blue surface; the blue light reflected off of it is giving their undersides an unambiguously* greenish cast.
* insofar as anything involving color perception is ever unambiguous; if you sample the color from that spot you will get something I am pretty sure most people would call “green” - it’s about #5A4, which is to say that the green is about twice as powerful as the red and blue.
posted by egypturnash at 10:24 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
* insofar as anything involving color perception is ever unambiguous; if you sample the color from that spot you will get something I am pretty sure most people would call “green” - it’s about #5A4, which is to say that the green is about twice as powerful as the red and blue.
posted by egypturnash at 10:24 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
This reminds me of when I was a kid, arguing with my friends about what color school buses were: yellow or orange.
posted by zsazsa at 10:28 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by zsazsa at 10:28 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
it may look white and gold in the poorly exposed photograph, but it's easy to verify that the tennis ball is royal blue
posted by idiopath at 10:29 AM on February 16, 2018 [22 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 10:29 AM on February 16, 2018 [22 favorites]
Obligatory get-off-my-lawn comment about white tennis balls. I'm not actually that old, but someone has to say it.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:29 AM on February 16, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 10:29 AM on February 16, 2018 [7 favorites]
How do I know what I call "red" is what you call "red"? What even is qualia? Dude, have you ever really looked at your hands?
posted by Nelson at 10:31 AM on February 16, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 10:31 AM on February 16, 2018 [13 favorites]
"My colleague Julie Beck summed up the ordeal with a sentiment we could all agree with. 'It is truly horrifying every time it gets pointed out that we’re all walking around thinking we share the same reality,' she said. 'And we just are not.' "
posted by TrishaU at 10:31 AM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by TrishaU at 10:31 AM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
kevinbelt
I agree....except that they weren't exactly white. They were actually more of a light beige.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 10:32 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
I agree....except that they weren't exactly white. They were actually more of a light beige.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 10:32 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
+1 false dichotomy
That said, all old dog-slobbered ones are green.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:34 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
That said, all old dog-slobbered ones are green.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:34 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
Trick question. Tennis balls are "optic yellow" which is R80 G100 B0 or C20 M0 Y100 B0. They're both green and yellow. 100%. Just depends on what colorspace you're using in your eyeballs.
In R (because someone has actually loaded the xkcd color data into an R package):
> library(xkcdcolors)
> nearest_named(rgb(0.8, 1, 0))
color_name hex red green blue L a b
380 neon yellow #cfff04 207 255 4 93.76857 -40.65291 90.11685
The internet has spoken.
posted by madcaptenor at 10:35 AM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
In R (because someone has actually loaded the xkcd color data into an R package):
> library(xkcdcolors)
> nearest_named(rgb(0.8, 1, 0))
color_name hex red green blue L a b
380 neon yellow #cfff04 207 255 4 93.76857 -40.65291 90.11685
The internet has spoken.
posted by madcaptenor at 10:35 AM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
Partly white.
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:41 AM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:41 AM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
Neon yellow is clearly a shade of green in all but the brightest of lights.
posted by Zalzidrax at 10:42 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Zalzidrax at 10:42 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
One of the first things you learn in art school is that the color value of an item is objective but dependent on local light. But how we perceive that item is subjective and dependent on other colors contiguous with it.
We rely on our perceptions. And we're processing what we perceive with varying amounts of context awareness. We don't walk around with exactly calibrated colorimeters to settle arguments, and it wouldn't be useful anyway because the colorimeter would not be able to tell you that the thing you're looking at might be white but looks yellowish because of the purple things around it.
Color perception is hella complex and thinking otherwise makes it easier for images to trick or annoy you.
posted by ardgedee at 10:42 AM on February 16, 2018 [8 favorites]
We rely on our perceptions. And we're processing what we perceive with varying amounts of context awareness. We don't walk around with exactly calibrated colorimeters to settle arguments, and it wouldn't be useful anyway because the colorimeter would not be able to tell you that the thing you're looking at might be white but looks yellowish because of the purple things around it.
Color perception is hella complex and thinking otherwise makes it easier for images to trick or annoy you.
posted by ardgedee at 10:42 AM on February 16, 2018 [8 favorites]
They're fucking greenish-yellow Jesus Christ the internet is exhausting.
posted by saladin at 10:47 AM on February 16, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by saladin at 10:47 AM on February 16, 2018 [15 favorites]
Yellar.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:48 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:48 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
why not just call it chartreuse, chartreuse is way more fun to say
posted by reprise the theme song and roll the credits at 10:51 AM on February 16, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by reprise the theme song and roll the credits at 10:51 AM on February 16, 2018 [16 favorites]
Also if you put a tennis ball on a treadmill, it will not take off and fly.
posted by Naberius at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Naberius at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
why not just call it chartreuse, chartreuse is way more fun to say
See? Yes. And when I read the opening text to the post, my brain answered "chartreuse" because that is the answer. But evidently that answer angers people, which has led me to discover that weirdo color absolutism is a thing, so I'm registering Indigowars.com and I am going to rip my shirt off while screaming so much now.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:01 AM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
See? Yes. And when I read the opening text to the post, my brain answered "chartreuse" because that is the answer. But evidently that answer angers people, which has led me to discover that weirdo color absolutism is a thing, so I'm registering Indigowars.com and I am going to rip my shirt off while screaming so much now.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:01 AM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
I have a general rule about color: whatever you think you know about color, it's more complicated than that.
That's true for any amount of knowledge about color. Every time I think I have a handle on all of the optics, physiology, physics, chemistry, etc. of color, I find that there are other aspects that I haven't learned that go into it.
posted by Xoc at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2018 [8 favorites]
That's true for any amount of knowledge about color. Every time I think I have a handle on all of the optics, physiology, physics, chemistry, etc. of color, I find that there are other aspects that I haven't learned that go into it.
posted by Xoc at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2018 [8 favorites]
I immediately thought “lime green”.
posted by gucci mane at 11:06 AM on February 16, 2018
posted by gucci mane at 11:06 AM on February 16, 2018
"Chartreuse" is a Sherwin-Williams paint color name, like Walnut Sadness or Vanilla Lichen or Twilight Pumpernickel. Chartreuse could mean anything; you might as well just call everything Mauve at that point.
Yellow-green. Yellow-green. Everybody knows what yellow is, everybody knows what green is. Except nobody knows what anything is, really--but everybody thinks they know what yellow and green are, so it avoids all the arguing.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:06 AM on February 16, 2018
Yellow-green. Yellow-green. Everybody knows what yellow is, everybody knows what green is. Except nobody knows what anything is, really--but everybody thinks they know what yellow and green are, so it avoids all the arguing.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:06 AM on February 16, 2018
What's interesting is that there are two types of Chartreuse, the liqueur which gives the colour its name: Yellow Chartreuse and Green Chartreuse.
posted by pipeski at 11:07 AM on February 16, 2018 [17 favorites]
posted by pipeski at 11:07 AM on February 16, 2018 [17 favorites]
So now the real question is, what color is half of a deviled egg?
posted by dlugoczaj at 11:08 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by dlugoczaj at 11:08 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yes, but which yellow?
Day-Glo yellow. Day-Glo green is... greener.
posted by Rash at 11:09 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
Day-Glo yellow. Day-Glo green is... greener.
posted by Rash at 11:09 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
the real dividing line, as others have stated, is between those who have worked in some professional sense with color (working with materials, inks, paints, or doing work like photography or lighting) and those who haven't.
There is color as defined by some objective matching system under defined conditions, and the rest is opinion...
source: used to work in screenprinting and embroidery.
posted by randomkeystrike at 11:09 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
There is color as defined by some objective matching system under defined conditions, and the rest is opinion...
source: used to work in screenprinting and embroidery.
posted by randomkeystrike at 11:09 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
OK, but if you wrap the tennis ball in the dress, place that on a treadmill with a sleeping Ralph Wiggum wearing a viking hat, will you cause the singularity?
posted by nubs at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by nubs at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
And don't even get me started on alligators...
Hey, do you know how you can tell the difference between an alligator and a crocodile?
One you'll see later, the other in a while.
Not even a little sorry.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:19 AM on February 16, 2018 [25 favorites]
Hey, do you know how you can tell the difference between an alligator and a crocodile?
One you'll see later, the other in a while.
Not even a little sorry.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:19 AM on February 16, 2018 [25 favorites]
Yeah, definitely on the yellow spectrum. I think if you saw a simple cartoon drawing of people playing tennis, their clothes would be white, the rackets black or brown, and the ball yellow. If the ball were green, it would look funny.
posted by stillmoving at 11:19 AM on February 16, 2018
posted by stillmoving at 11:19 AM on February 16, 2018
Light gray, you color-vision-having bastiches.
posted by kyrademon at 11:22 AM on February 16, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 11:22 AM on February 16, 2018 [7 favorites]
If the ball were green, it would look funny.
That's because the grass is already green. The ball can't be green because the grass is green. (The ball probably also looks yellower than it is because it's often seen against a green background.)
posted by madcaptenor at 11:25 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
That's because the grass is already green. The ball can't be green because the grass is green. (The ball probably also looks yellower than it is because it's often seen against a green background.)
posted by madcaptenor at 11:25 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
I just had my daily team meeting of ~20 engineers. They laughed, thought it was silly and then began debating and debating and debating. They would have taken up the whole hour if I hadn't cut them off to get back to my agenda.
Shocking and silly!
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:25 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Shocking and silly!
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:25 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm more worried about the fact that this post is formatted all wrong (on my computer, at least). Why is Atom Eyes' name over there? </derail>
posted by soundofsuburbia at 11:27 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by soundofsuburbia at 11:27 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
They're fucking greenish-yellow Jesus Christ the internet is exhausting.
They're yellowish-green, you waffle-kneed mango-fondler!
posted by slkinsey at 11:29 AM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
They're yellowish-green, you waffle-kneed mango-fondler!
posted by slkinsey at 11:29 AM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
Grellow. We would also have accepted Yeen.
posted by Splunge at 11:30 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 11:30 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
Everyone knows that dogs don't see green very well, but they can see yellow and boy do they see tennis balls. Case closed.
Now, onto whether or not the two halves of a tennis ball when assembled around compressed air constitute a sandwich or not.
posted by notorious medium at 11:34 AM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
Now, onto whether or not the two halves of a tennis ball when assembled around compressed air constitute a sandwich or not.
posted by notorious medium at 11:34 AM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
I'm more worried about the fact that this post is formatted all wrong (on my computer, at least). Why is Atom Eyes' name over there?
Weird. Also, WRT your screencap: it's kinda neat that in MeFi classic, link text is actually tennis ball-colored!
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:35 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
Weird. Also, WRT your screencap: it's kinda neat that in MeFi classic, link text is actually tennis ball-colored!
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:35 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
I’m getting flashbacks to birders arguing over whether some gulls’ legs are pink or orange.
posted by gingerbeer at 11:49 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 11:49 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
Conveniently, Big Bird's legs are both pink and orange.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:09 PM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 12:09 PM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
OK, I applied some Science, which means I did an image search for "tennis balls". My report:
- There's a surprising range of colors and lighting conditions. Sometimes they look more yellow, sometimes more green.
- When people draw pictures of tennis ball, they usually make them more yellow. So they're kind of notionally yellow, just as roads are notionally black (but actually light gray unless they've been recently resurfaced).
- Cartoonists seem to agree that when you put a face on a tennis ball, the seams are just decorative (rather than being, say, the mouth)
look the answer is xλωρός, clearly
posted by halation at 12:14 PM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by halation at 12:14 PM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
The really interesting part of the article — at least to me — is not merely a survey of what colors people consider tennis balls to be, but the suggestion of a deeper correlation:
[NIH researcher Bevil] Conway’s theory is that some people discount cool colors in their perception, while others discount warm colors, in order to view objects consistently as the light changes around them. When people discount the blue—a cool color—of The Dress, they end up seeing white and gold. When they discount the gold—a warm color—they see blue and black.posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:29 PM on February 16, 2018 [8 favorites]
If the same effect is true for our perception of tennis balls, then the people who see the dress as white and gold, because they are predisposed to discounting cool colors, should see the ball as yellow. Meanwhile, those who see the dress [as] blue and black, because they discount warm colors, should see the ball as green.
And that’s exactly the effect we found, according to a quick, very informal survey of my Slack team. Aside from one or two outliers, those who believe a tennis ball is yellow saw the dress as gold and white, while those who believe a tennis ball is green saw the dress as black and blue. Minds blown.
According to Kermit the Frog, who should know, yellow is much more colorful than green. How does that factor in?
posted by layceepee at 12:39 PM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by layceepee at 12:39 PM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
Tennis balls green, dress white and gold. Sorry. Also I'm very much a morning person.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:41 PM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 12:41 PM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
So it seems some people think there is a yellow-green mutually exclusive distinction and others say that they are in between and apparently there are also issues of perception and lighting and that's not even going into the existence of tennis balls that are orange or pink and meanwhile everyone is trying to cite HTML color codes or Sherman Williams paint swatches as an authoritative source and others are asking what do we mean by "color" and HEY EVERYONE LET'S HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT GENDER.
(If it isn't too much of a derail, that is.)
posted by AlSweigart at 12:54 PM on February 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
(If it isn't too much of a derail, that is.)
posted by AlSweigart at 12:54 PM on February 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
chartreuse has been around a lot longer than Sherwin Williams.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartreuse_(liqueur)
posted by jonathanhughes at 12:56 PM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartreuse_(liqueur)
posted by jonathanhughes at 12:56 PM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
Anyone working with the NIST Atomic Spectra Database team?
(The Internet is still so wonderful)
posted by clew at 1:19 PM on February 16, 2018
(The Internet is still so wonderful)
posted by clew at 1:19 PM on February 16, 2018
How do I know what I call "red" is what you call "red"?
Well 700nm is 700nm. While even among non-colorblind people there’s some physiological variation in the shape and wiring of the eye, after that I think we pretty much all parse red into the same salty, prickly sensation halfway between A♯ minor and vertigo.
posted by aubilenon at 1:19 PM on February 16, 2018 [10 favorites]
Well 700nm is 700nm. While even among non-colorblind people there’s some physiological variation in the shape and wiring of the eye, after that I think we pretty much all parse red into the same salty, prickly sensation halfway between A♯ minor and vertigo.
posted by aubilenon at 1:19 PM on February 16, 2018 [10 favorites]
This reminds me of when I was a kid, arguing with my friends about what color school buses were: yellow or orange.
One time I was discussing ideas for a promotional poster in yellow because they didn't like the colour. I pointed out one I did before, which they called "orange". To me, "yellow" is what people usually call "burnt yellow", and call most other less vibrant yellows "pissy yellow".
Tennis balls to me aren't "pissy yellow" or "burnt yellow". To me, they're "fluo yellow", which lies on that border between the yellows and the greens, and where it crosses from one colour to another depends on very small variations of hue and each person has a different point where it stops being one colour and becomes another.
yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow
posted by lmfsilva at 1:26 PM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
One time I was discussing ideas for a promotional poster in yellow because they didn't like the colour. I pointed out one I did before, which they called "orange". To me, "yellow" is what people usually call "burnt yellow", and call most other less vibrant yellows "pissy yellow".
Tennis balls to me aren't "pissy yellow" or "burnt yellow". To me, they're "fluo yellow", which lies on that border between the yellows and the greens, and where it crosses from one colour to another depends on very small variations of hue and each person has a different point where it stops being one colour and becomes another.
yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow yellow
posted by lmfsilva at 1:26 PM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Somewhere (here?) I read of someone who saw a different color balance in each eye, not because his vitreous fluids were tinted but because he had different relative densities of cone cells.
posted by clew at 1:27 PM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by clew at 1:27 PM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
HEY EVERYONE LET'S HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT GENDER.
well, women do use more color names than men...
posted by madcaptenor at 1:28 PM on February 16, 2018
well, women do use more color names than men...
posted by madcaptenor at 1:28 PM on February 16, 2018
That's fascinating, DevilsAdvocate, because to me tennis balls are very distinctly green, I saw the dress as white and gold, and I've always seemed to see a lot more blue in the world than the people I've talked to about such things.
And another thing: I seem to see objects in motion a lot better than some other people do. My girlfriend all through college grew up in a rural area, and was known as an excellent shot. When she found out I'd never fired a rifle, she wanted to teach me, and decided it might help to practice with an air rifle she had before we went to the shooting range. She set up a spent CO2 cartridge about 30 ft away and shot at it herself until a new cartridge was exhausted, hitting it about 2/3 of the time, then put in a new cartridge and handed me the rifle. I missed the first shot but then hit the target almost every time. She was all 'how did you do that?', and I said 'it was easy, just like aiming a garden hose'. 'What?', she said, 'yeah' I said, ' the trajectory of the bullet is like a black wire in the air, and all I have to do is keep the other end of the wire on the target!' But she'd never experienced that.
posted by jamjam at 1:29 PM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
And another thing: I seem to see objects in motion a lot better than some other people do. My girlfriend all through college grew up in a rural area, and was known as an excellent shot. When she found out I'd never fired a rifle, she wanted to teach me, and decided it might help to practice with an air rifle she had before we went to the shooting range. She set up a spent CO2 cartridge about 30 ft away and shot at it herself until a new cartridge was exhausted, hitting it about 2/3 of the time, then put in a new cartridge and handed me the rifle. I missed the first shot but then hit the target almost every time. She was all 'how did you do that?', and I said 'it was easy, just like aiming a garden hose'. 'What?', she said, 'yeah' I said, ' the trajectory of the bullet is like a black wire in the air, and all I have to do is keep the other end of the wire on the target!' But she'd never experienced that.
posted by jamjam at 1:29 PM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Dammit. Tennis balls have always been yellow to me up until now, but now thanks to this thread I can't unsee green tennis balls. STOP MESSING WITH MY MIND METAFILTER
posted by fimbulvetr at 1:30 PM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 1:30 PM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
look the answer is xλωρός, clearly
Absolutely not, everyone can plainly see this is ξανθός.
posted by Copronymus at 1:50 PM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
Absolutely not, everyone can plainly see this is ξανθός.
posted by Copronymus at 1:50 PM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
I'm colorblind and I'm never sure what color anything is.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:53 PM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:53 PM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
But what color is the wine-dark sea?
posted by asterix at 2:30 PM on February 16, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by asterix at 2:30 PM on February 16, 2018 [8 favorites]
Tennis balls green, dress white and gold. Sorry. Also I'm very much a morning person.
Tennis balls black, dress black. Sorry. Also I'm very much a mourning person.
posted by Splunge at 2:39 PM on February 16, 2018 [12 favorites]
Tennis balls black, dress black. Sorry. Also I'm very much a mourning person.
posted by Splunge at 2:39 PM on February 16, 2018 [12 favorites]
Somewhere (here?) I read of someone who saw a different color balance in each eye
Well I do, and always have. I can clearly see the sky as two different shades of blue, depending on which eye I use. And glancing at a dark brown curtain in this room, I can see right now that my right eye is getting a warmer tone (more red) than the left. I think the two eyes sort of average. I seem to have rather good colour vision in terms of distinguishing subtle shades.
It's interesting to look at clip art tennis balls. Some people have drawn them as distinctly lime green, while others have gone for bright yellow. Not many sit on the fence.
I also think that people with a bit of history in art, design or photography tend to be able to compensate mentally for the lighting in a scene. A painter will use colours that are not at all obvious, because they understand that the environment colours the objects in it. So they paint the colours they actually see, not the colours they think the object should be under bright white lighting. I think the dress thing was the inverse of this. People who could see the correct colours (blue and black) tended to be able to subtract the environment from the image to get back to the actual colour.
posted by pipeski at 2:48 PM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
Well I do, and always have. I can clearly see the sky as two different shades of blue, depending on which eye I use. And glancing at a dark brown curtain in this room, I can see right now that my right eye is getting a warmer tone (more red) than the left. I think the two eyes sort of average. I seem to have rather good colour vision in terms of distinguishing subtle shades.
It's interesting to look at clip art tennis balls. Some people have drawn them as distinctly lime green, while others have gone for bright yellow. Not many sit on the fence.
I also think that people with a bit of history in art, design or photography tend to be able to compensate mentally for the lighting in a scene. A painter will use colours that are not at all obvious, because they understand that the environment colours the objects in it. So they paint the colours they actually see, not the colours they think the object should be under bright white lighting. I think the dress thing was the inverse of this. People who could see the correct colours (blue and black) tended to be able to subtract the environment from the image to get back to the actual colour.
posted by pipeski at 2:48 PM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
In the 70' there was a spate of "safety colors" for cars, particularly BMW, Volkswagen, and Mercedes. One was this tennis-ball color, the other was an alarming orange.
I bought a used BMW 2002 in that color, and everyone called it yellow. When I got a scratch that needed touch up, I ordered the original factory paint for that model from BMW. It was called "Golf Green".
posted by StickyCarpet at 2:55 PM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
I bought a used BMW 2002 in that color, and everyone called it yellow. When I got a scratch that needed touch up, I ordered the original factory paint for that model from BMW. It was called "Golf Green".
posted by StickyCarpet at 2:55 PM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
The strong effect of context (lighting, proximity to other colors, emotional associations) is why I don't believe people really have favorite colors like they say they do. If you spend a lot of time coloring things, you'll probably find that context is the thing that matters the most, and any color can look good or bad, depending on how it's used.
Tennis balls are greenish-yellow, or yellowish-green, or green, or yellow, depending on how you look at them. Because they are fuzzy and have white stripes (note: not really white) any given tennis ball is likely to contain multiple different colors even in very neutral settings.
posted by surlyben at 3:00 PM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Tennis balls are greenish-yellow, or yellowish-green, or green, or yellow, depending on how you look at them. Because they are fuzzy and have white stripes (note: not really white) any given tennis ball is likely to contain multiple different colors even in very neutral settings.
posted by surlyben at 3:00 PM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Tennis balls are the exact color of a large bug smashed on the windshield.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:29 PM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:29 PM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
This whole conversation reminds me of that time I had to convince my dad nothing was wrong with his new prosumer camera just because the photo he took of a hummingbird feeder in shadow didn't look bright red. It was very difficult to explain that knowing a hummingbird feeder is red is separate from how a hummingbird feeder looks in a non-neutral environment. I finally led him outside to look at the hummingbird feeder in question, which I think broke his soul for a week or two as he tried to reconcile his mental maps with the physical world.
posted by xyzzy at 3:45 PM on February 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 3:45 PM on February 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
In the 70' there was a spate of "safety colors" for cars, particularly BMW, Volkswagen, and Mercedes. One was this tennis-ball color, the other was an alarming orange
Don’t forget the greatest pride/embarrassment of Saint John, New Brunswick: The Bricklin SV-1 (that stands for Safety Vehicle!)
posted by Sys Rq at 3:50 PM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
Don’t forget the greatest pride/embarrassment of Saint John, New Brunswick: The Bricklin SV-1 (that stands for Safety Vehicle!)
posted by Sys Rq at 3:50 PM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
Chartreuse has been around a lot longer than Sherwin Williams.
Indeed. Now would you say tennis balls are more like Green Chartreuse or Yellow Chartreuse?
That's the liqueur, even the goddamn color name is ambiguous, it can be #7FFF00 or #DFFF00. (Although TBH I've never seen the yellower #DFFF00 named chartreuse anywhere; it's not in the canonical rgb.txt.)
posted by Nelson at 4:00 PM on February 16, 2018
Indeed. Now would you say tennis balls are more like Green Chartreuse or Yellow Chartreuse?
That's the liqueur, even the goddamn color name is ambiguous, it can be #7FFF00 or #DFFF00. (Although TBH I've never seen the yellower #DFFF00 named chartreuse anywhere; it's not in the canonical rgb.txt.)
posted by Nelson at 4:00 PM on February 16, 2018
But what color is the wine-dark sea?
scrotumtightening
posted by thelonius at 4:00 PM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
scrotumtightening
posted by thelonius at 4:00 PM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
Alexa says a tennis ball is yellow. Case closed.
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 4:22 PM on February 16, 2018
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 4:22 PM on February 16, 2018
For your consideration, a true connoisseur of tennis balls... and they all look Ol' Yeller to me....
posted by TrishaU at 4:37 PM on February 16, 2018
posted by TrishaU at 4:37 PM on February 16, 2018
Have these people never used any kind of paint or photo editing program on a computer?
How the heck do you spend any time looking at the standard gradient or wheel of color and still think, "Yes. There are clearly 7 discrete colors there that I can name"?
posted by straight at 4:42 PM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
How the heck do you spend any time looking at the standard gradient or wheel of color and still think, "Yes. There are clearly 7 discrete colors there that I can name"?
posted by straight at 4:42 PM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
Chartreuse color is definitely the color of green Chartreuse color and not yellow Chartreuse, which is less common and less tasty. This is the first thing in this thread I am willing to fight about.
posted by aubilenon at 5:50 PM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by aubilenon at 5:50 PM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
It is definitely grue.
posted by vorpal bunny at 8:46 PM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by vorpal bunny at 8:46 PM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
No, they're fluorescent, what was initially called Day-Glo but the kids call 'em neon colors now. Like the inks in high-lighters. Means they contain special chemicals which fluoresce, or glow, under UV light; which I thought took these colors off any standard Pantone charts or pigment color wheels.
posted by Rash at 9:17 PM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Rash at 9:17 PM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
Green is not a creative color.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 9:21 PM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 9:21 PM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
Means they contain special chemicals which fluoresce, or glow, under UV light; which I thought took these colors off any standard Pantone charts or pigment color wheels.
Not exactly. When pigments fluoresce they emit colors in the usual visible range. But often the base color is different than the fluorescing color, like when your white shirt glows blue at the nightclub. Fancy pigments were developed such that the fluorescing color is tuned to match the base color, and then they seem to be a more vivid and brighter version of the same color when hit with direct daylight, or or a dimmer version when just UV illuminated.
I think that might be what is going on with tennis balls, but it's still just a visible spectrum color.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:37 PM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
Not exactly. When pigments fluoresce they emit colors in the usual visible range. But often the base color is different than the fluorescing color, like when your white shirt glows blue at the nightclub. Fancy pigments were developed such that the fluorescing color is tuned to match the base color, and then they seem to be a more vivid and brighter version of the same color when hit with direct daylight, or or a dimmer version when just UV illuminated.
I think that might be what is going on with tennis balls, but it's still just a visible spectrum color.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:37 PM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
If I do a Google image search for "tennis ball", barely 1 in 5 images look remotely yellow to me. They're green. One thing that biases me is that there are certain types of tennis balls that are definitely yellow, and they are definitely abnormal. So the regular ones must be green. They can't be "yellow" and "even yellower", that's crazy talk.
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 1:25 AM on February 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 1:25 AM on February 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
The dress is verifiably blue and black. A tennis ball is verifiably yellow. Be on whatever side of the argument about a picture you want to be... either way: if you pick a position against or for reality you are a wanker, because this thing isn't worth arguing over unless you have to recreate the color as part of your job.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:01 AM on February 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:01 AM on February 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
A tennis ball is verifiably yellow
I always am amused by people who are simply wrong table-thumping about "reality"
posted by thelonius at 6:05 AM on February 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
I always am amused by people who are simply wrong table-thumping about "reality"
posted by thelonius at 6:05 AM on February 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
I was born in 1969 and this thread just reminded me that as a kid my dad still had a couple cans of white tennis balls! And wooden rackets with heads the size of a 45 record.
posted by freecellwizard at 6:26 AM on February 17, 2018
posted by freecellwizard at 6:26 AM on February 17, 2018
Tennis balls are "optic yellow" which is R80 G100 B0 or C20 M0 Y100 B0
This is what I meant when I asked 'which yellow?'
I understand that this is about perception, not 'reality', but I would have thought there was some actual objective measurement like spectrum analyzed under white light. I found it frustrating that there was none in the article.
So with RGB (#CCFF00), you can't make yellow without using green, and in YMCK (100%Y, 20% cyan), you can't make green without using yellow. Does that mean they're made (felt painted) yellow, but they're really green when you see them? (realizing anthropocentric bias)
Happy that there isn't a color controversy in table tennis, where the balls are white. (Or orange, but it seems no one is making legal orange balls any more.)
posted by MtDewd at 6:36 AM on February 17, 2018
This is what I meant when I asked 'which yellow?'
I understand that this is about perception, not 'reality', but I would have thought there was some actual objective measurement like spectrum analyzed under white light. I found it frustrating that there was none in the article.
So with RGB (#CCFF00), you can't make yellow without using green, and in YMCK (100%Y, 20% cyan), you can't make green without using yellow. Does that mean they're made (felt painted) yellow, but they're really green when you see them? (realizing anthropocentric bias)
Happy that there isn't a color controversy in table tennis, where the balls are white. (Or orange, but it seems no one is making legal orange balls any more.)
posted by MtDewd at 6:36 AM on February 17, 2018
Happy that there isn't a color controversy in table tennis, where the balls are white
Eggshell, cream, or ivory?
posted by nubs at 8:17 AM on February 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
Eggshell, cream, or ivory?
posted by nubs at 8:17 AM on February 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is like arguing whether eggplants are red or blue.
posted by straight at 11:13 AM on February 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by straight at 11:13 AM on February 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
Tennis balls are clearly bylfgoam glosd. Yes.
posted by The otter lady at 12:28 PM on February 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by The otter lady at 12:28 PM on February 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
OK, what color should they be?
I can't help thinking that the very ambivalence people are expressing about what the current color is, together with the fact that the color has changed over time and could be said to have developed by a process akin to natural selection, suggests that the color is sitting right at some minimax optimum we don't grasp yet.
posted by jamjam at 1:21 PM on February 17, 2018
I can't help thinking that the very ambivalence people are expressing about what the current color is, together with the fact that the color has changed over time and could be said to have developed by a process akin to natural selection, suggests that the color is sitting right at some minimax optimum we don't grasp yet.
posted by jamjam at 1:21 PM on February 17, 2018
the color has changed over time and could be said to have developed by a process akin to natural selection
In the sense that a mass extinction event took place that killed off all the White balls and left only the Optic Yellow ones, sure. But they’ve been Optic Yellow ever since.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:43 PM on February 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
In the sense that a mass extinction event took place that killed off all the White balls and left only the Optic Yellow ones, sure. But they’ve been Optic Yellow ever since.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:43 PM on February 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
Green is not a creative color.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 11:21 PM on February 16 [2 favorites +] [!]
epony...
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 11:53 PM on February 17, 2018
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 11:21 PM on February 16 [2 favorites +] [!]
epony...
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 11:53 PM on February 17, 2018
I have a general rule about color: whatever you think you know about color, it's more complicated than that.
This is a profound truth. As an example, I recently learned about the controversial idea that laboratory experiments have allowed people to see the color "yellow-blue" (not green, but something that is both yellowish and bluish at once).
posted by vogon_poet at 11:46 AM on February 19, 2018
This is a profound truth. As an example, I recently learned about the controversial idea that laboratory experiments have allowed people to see the color "yellow-blue" (not green, but something that is both yellowish and bluish at once).
posted by vogon_poet at 11:46 AM on February 19, 2018
I should be extra clear, lots of people dispute those experimental results. I guess a second rule about color might be, people will always fight about it.
posted by vogon_poet at 11:47 AM on February 19, 2018
posted by vogon_poet at 11:47 AM on February 19, 2018
why not just call it chartreuse, chartreuse is way more fun to say
Because "chartruse" is incorrectly assigned. the colors named "chartruse" and "mauve" need to switch places.
they just do.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 12:25 PM on February 19, 2018
Because "chartruse" is incorrectly assigned. the colors named "chartruse" and "mauve" need to switch places.
they just do.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 12:25 PM on February 19, 2018
Could you give a reason for that? Mauve, a pale purple colour (b.1859), is so called after the French name for mallow, a pale purple flower. Chartreuse, a pale green colour (b. 1884), is named after a pale green liqueur.
Now, as for puce....
posted by Sys Rq at 3:56 PM on February 19, 2018
Now, as for puce....
posted by Sys Rq at 3:56 PM on February 19, 2018
If you've been drinking mauve chartreuse you should either patent it or see your physician.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:35 PM on February 19, 2018
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:35 PM on February 19, 2018
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I'll now start raising money for the Team Yellow Right Thinking Person's Militia and Debating Committee.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:18 AM on February 16, 2018 [8 favorites]