The new Heathers is "written for aging Fox News viewers"
February 23, 2018 10:55 AM Subscribe
If you believe that kids these days are fragile “snowflakes,” that political correctness is running amok, and that LGBT people are now society’s true bullies, this new Heathers is the show for you. The premiere of the rebooted cult classic, now airing for free online, takes place in a universe—clearly a fictional one—where the football team is oppressed and yesteryear’s fat, queer, and black victims now rule the school with manicured fists.The new Heathers opens with a slur against intersex people and goes downhill from there.
I haven't seen this (and very likely won't), but reading about it makes me want to root for the bullies.
posted by filthy_prescriptivist at 11:02 AM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by filthy_prescriptivist at 11:02 AM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
Wasn't the original about students murdering each other? Seems like the worst possible time for a reboot, no?
posted by gwint at 11:03 AM on February 23, 2018 [20 favorites]
posted by gwint at 11:03 AM on February 23, 2018 [20 favorites]
If you want a cute, inclusive teenage drama show, Netflix just put out Everything Sucks. the leads are an actually teenaged(!!) black boy with so much charm i can't stand him, and a budding/questioning lesbian. And she actually gets to be gay, on screen. *spoilers* (i mean she's closeted so far of what I've seen, but the story explores normal teenage feelings of lust, sexuality, and puberty, from the point of a queer kid. It blew my mind that there was a scene where she was trying not to look at her crush in the locker room. Female gaze? treated as normal and not predatory?! revolutionary!)
Anyway I'm done changing the subject, we can bitch about this hot mess now.
posted by FirstMateKate at 11:03 AM on February 23, 2018 [45 favorites]
Anyway I'm done changing the subject, we can bitch about this hot mess now.
posted by FirstMateKate at 11:03 AM on February 23, 2018 [45 favorites]
wow, this makes PCU look like a subtle, incisive takedown of political correctness gone wild on our nation's college campuses.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:07 AM on February 23, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 11:07 AM on February 23, 2018 [10 favorites]
Recopied from the comments on the earlier FPP about this:
The show-runner has a fundamental misunderstanding of the source material. Quoted from EW:
“The main thing to really take away is I don’t view the Heathers as the villains,” showrunner Jason Micallef told EW. “The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be. In the original film, the Heathers were the ones I always loved, and it’s the same with the series. The Heathers are the aspirational characters. [That the Heathers are the villains is] the underlying thesis of the small segment of people that have an issue with it. The villain is J.D. — and that’s the same in the movie and same in our show.”
I've still got it set to record though I expect to be deeply disappointed and possibly infuriated.
posted by ApathyGirl at 11:14 AM on February 23, 2018 [20 favorites]
The show-runner has a fundamental misunderstanding of the source material. Quoted from EW:
“The main thing to really take away is I don’t view the Heathers as the villains,” showrunner Jason Micallef told EW. “The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be. In the original film, the Heathers were the ones I always loved, and it’s the same with the series. The Heathers are the aspirational characters. [That the Heathers are the villains is] the underlying thesis of the small segment of people that have an issue with it. The villain is J.D. — and that’s the same in the movie and same in our show.”
I've still got it set to record though I expect to be deeply disappointed and possibly infuriated.
posted by ApathyGirl at 11:14 AM on February 23, 2018 [20 favorites]
“The main thing to really take away is I don’t view the Heathers as the villains,” showrunner Jason Micallef told EW. “The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be. In the original film, the Heathers were the ones I always loved, and it’s the same with the series. The Heathers are the aspirational characters. [That the Heathers are the villains is] the underlying thesis of the small segment of people that have an issue with it. The villain is J.D. — and that’s the same in the movie and same in our show.”
Wait, what? Oh man I don't want to go into a lengthy diatribe about this, but that is nearly a Luke Skywalker "everything you just said is wrong" worthy statement.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:20 AM on February 23, 2018 [50 favorites]
Wait, what? Oh man I don't want to go into a lengthy diatribe about this, but that is nearly a Luke Skywalker "everything you just said is wrong" worthy statement.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:20 AM on February 23, 2018 [50 favorites]
Daniel Waters, screenwriter of the original:
"I’ve been looking forward to the Heathers TV Show like a naked Harvey Weinstein administered root canal—the trailers, the buzz, the cray premise of popularity, the lack of money I am making from it…And then I saw the first five episodes…Is it the joyful and transcendent musical? No. But in my best Piper Laurie Carrie voice, I must wail “I liked it!”
It is undeniably made with love and respect, under the premise that the film Heathers is the greatest document since the Bible, a work to be endlessly analyzed and grappled with. My Ego is weak—you call me God and I’ll invite you to my tea party.
Okay, Episode 1 is the Mad Libs parlor game version of the movie we feared…but it ends well. The further the show moves away from the film, the better. Episode 4 reaches the dazzling heights of, dare I say…how do I put this…what’s the word I am looking for…me. Lehmann, want to do a slumber party so you can see these things?"
Edit to add that Lehmann refers to Heathers (the movie) director Michael Lehmann.
posted by schoolgirl report at 11:21 AM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
"I’ve been looking forward to the Heathers TV Show like a naked Harvey Weinstein administered root canal—the trailers, the buzz, the cray premise of popularity, the lack of money I am making from it…And then I saw the first five episodes…Is it the joyful and transcendent musical? No. But in my best Piper Laurie Carrie voice, I must wail “I liked it!”
It is undeniably made with love and respect, under the premise that the film Heathers is the greatest document since the Bible, a work to be endlessly analyzed and grappled with. My Ego is weak—you call me God and I’ll invite you to my tea party.
Okay, Episode 1 is the Mad Libs parlor game version of the movie we feared…but it ends well. The further the show moves away from the film, the better. Episode 4 reaches the dazzling heights of, dare I say…how do I put this…what’s the word I am looking for…me. Lehmann, want to do a slumber party so you can see these things?"
Edit to add that Lehmann refers to Heathers (the movie) director Michael Lehmann.
posted by schoolgirl report at 11:21 AM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
The Heathers are aspirational characters in the sense that they are characters who will soon be aspirating blood.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:29 AM on February 23, 2018 [32 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:29 AM on February 23, 2018 [32 favorites]
The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be.
From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:30 AM on February 23, 2018 [36 favorites]
From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:30 AM on February 23, 2018 [36 favorites]
i have to think that the number of people who have watched Return of the Jedi who didn't think that Emperor Palpatine was the protagonist is a very small segment of the total audience
posted by murphy slaw at 11:32 AM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 11:32 AM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
I'm surprised there's not a lot more stuff like this being produced right now. 40%+ of the country voted for Trump not despite him being a monster, but because he's a monster. They are an entertainment demographic valuable to pander to.
posted by Nelson at 11:34 AM on February 23, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 11:34 AM on February 23, 2018 [12 favorites]
"'The main thing to really take away is I don’t view the Heathers as the villains'"
So, in other words, this guy would have been killed by Winona Ryder and Christian Slater?
"Wasn't the original about students murdering each other?"
Yeah, watching it again now, you feel pretty terrible about yourself for laughing. At least I did.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:36 AM on February 23, 2018
So, in other words, this guy would have been killed by Winona Ryder and Christian Slater?
"Wasn't the original about students murdering each other?"
Yeah, watching it again now, you feel pretty terrible about yourself for laughing. At least I did.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:36 AM on February 23, 2018
They are an entertainment demographic valuable to pander to.
NCIS and whatnot have it covered.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:36 AM on February 23, 2018 [11 favorites]
NCIS and whatnot have it covered.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:36 AM on February 23, 2018 [11 favorites]
The idea that nonbinary trans people are trendy and somehow harming traditional LGBT people is something of a TERF/Gender Critical talking point right now.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 11:40 AM on February 23, 2018 [33 favorites]
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 11:40 AM on February 23, 2018 [33 favorites]
The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be.
I saw the movie when it first came out (and have seen it a couple more times over the years), and that is just so directly the opposite of my understanding of the story. Talk about parallel realities.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:43 AM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
I saw the movie when it first came out (and have seen it a couple more times over the years), and that is just so directly the opposite of my understanding of the story. Talk about parallel realities.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:43 AM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
> If you want a cute, inclusive teenage drama show, Netflix just put out Everything Sucks
I just started watching this and it is delightful.
Everything I've read about the Heathers reboot makes me want to never watch it.
posted by rtha at 11:44 AM on February 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
I just started watching this and it is delightful.
Everything I've read about the Heathers reboot makes me want to never watch it.
posted by rtha at 11:44 AM on February 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
"'The main thing to really take away is I don’t view the Heathers as the villains'"
"Wasn't the original about students murdering each other?"
the original had the Heathers (the uber popular girls) as villains ... until they started getting knocked off. And the lowly normals (or whatever the Heathers called them), they were the heroes ... until the murders started.
Past that, it got complicated. Which is why it was good. You didn't know who to root for, but you couldn't stop watching. The word edgy comes to mind, in a good way. Heathers (the original) cut in a bunch of different ways and pretty much demanded that you think about it, talk about it. There had NEVER been a high school movie like it.
I did only see it once, when it was new, a long, long time ago ... so maybe I'm mis-remembering
posted by philip-random at 11:44 AM on February 23, 2018 [38 favorites]
"Wasn't the original about students murdering each other?"
the original had the Heathers (the uber popular girls) as villains ... until they started getting knocked off. And the lowly normals (or whatever the Heathers called them), they were the heroes ... until the murders started.
Past that, it got complicated. Which is why it was good. You didn't know who to root for, but you couldn't stop watching. The word edgy comes to mind, in a good way. Heathers (the original) cut in a bunch of different ways and pretty much demanded that you think about it, talk about it. There had NEVER been a high school movie like it.
I did only see it once, when it was new, a long, long time ago ... so maybe I'm mis-remembering
posted by philip-random at 11:44 AM on February 23, 2018 [38 favorites]
philip-random, you've got it right.
one of the big themes in Heathers was that the dream of underdog revenge, once actually enacted, is gruesome and leads to the re-enforcement of social strata and other unintended consequences.
j.d. is introduced as a bad boy and the audience (and veronica) are led to believe that they're going to see the heathers get a righteous comeuppance but it all goes horribly wrong and j.d is revealed to be a psychopath raised by a psychopath and nothing gets any better as long as everyone continues to treat petty high school social jousting as a life and death struggle.
veronica is the closest thing the movie has to a protagonist and she only "wins" when she realizes that all of her values are fucked up and pointless
posted by murphy slaw at 11:52 AM on February 23, 2018 [70 favorites]
one of the big themes in Heathers was that the dream of underdog revenge, once actually enacted, is gruesome and leads to the re-enforcement of social strata and other unintended consequences.
j.d. is introduced as a bad boy and the audience (and veronica) are led to believe that they're going to see the heathers get a righteous comeuppance but it all goes horribly wrong and j.d is revealed to be a psychopath raised by a psychopath and nothing gets any better as long as everyone continues to treat petty high school social jousting as a life and death struggle.
veronica is the closest thing the movie has to a protagonist and she only "wins" when she realizes that all of her values are fucked up and pointless
posted by murphy slaw at 11:52 AM on February 23, 2018 [70 favorites]
I haven't seen it in ages, but yeah, the takeaway for me was that while the Heathers and their jock friends are monstrous and abusive (I seem to recall that one of the jocks was an attempted rapist along with all the other kinds of abuse their clique handed out) but that in the end JD is even more terrifyingly destructive. Praemunire put it very well in a comment in the last thread.
posted by tavella at 11:58 AM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by tavella at 11:58 AM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
'The main thing to really take away is I don’t view the Heathers as the villains…The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be'
Hypothesis: how you view the Heathers depends on whether you were one in high school.
posted by adamrice at 11:59 AM on February 23, 2018 [13 favorites]
Hypothesis: how you view the Heathers depends on whether you were one in high school.
posted by adamrice at 11:59 AM on February 23, 2018 [13 favorites]
I drove the goddamn turnip truck in high school
posted by thelonius at 12:00 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 12:00 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
Alternate Hypothesis: Who you see as the villains in Heathers is the inverse of how you saw yourself in high school. Nevertheless, the key to Heathers is that there are only villains in Heathers. It's not really a movie about identifying the villains. It's a movie about which villains you root for, if any, and whether you can continue to root for them through the entire narrative.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:08 PM on February 23, 2018 [19 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:08 PM on February 23, 2018 [19 favorites]
wow, this makes PCU look like a subtle, incisive takedown of political correctness gone wild on our nation's college campuses.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:07 AM on February 23 [2 favorites +] [!]
Wait...we don't like PCU now?
posted by exparrot at 12:10 PM on February 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 11:07 AM on February 23 [2 favorites +] [!]
Wait...we don't like PCU now?
posted by exparrot at 12:10 PM on February 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
Only a Heather deals in absolutes.
posted by Enemy of Joy at 12:12 PM on February 23, 2018 [46 favorites]
posted by Enemy of Joy at 12:12 PM on February 23, 2018 [46 favorites]
Liking things is so last minute ago.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:12 PM on February 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:12 PM on February 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
So basically, the psychopaths have won.
Honestly my thought reading all this is that it’s not geared towards the Fox News crowd, it’s a recruitment video.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:17 PM on February 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
Honestly my thought reading all this is that it’s not geared towards the Fox News crowd, it’s a recruitment video.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:17 PM on February 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
I drove the goddamn turnip truck in high school
I carried a watermelon!
I carried a watermelon?
posted by kimberussell at 12:18 PM on February 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
I carried a watermelon!
I carried a watermelon?
posted by kimberussell at 12:18 PM on February 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
okay so full disclosure time: i never realized until reading the last thread on this subject that Martha's last name was not actually "Dumptruck"
posted by murphy slaw at 12:19 PM on February 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 12:19 PM on February 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
Great pate, but I gotta motor if I wanna be ready for that funeral.
posted by Bob Regular at 12:20 PM on February 23, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by Bob Regular at 12:20 PM on February 23, 2018 [11 favorites]
Yeah, it's really weird they went this direction when the original has such an obvious more plausible angle. Like, the Heathers were clearly bullies but then murdering them is taking things too far.
Isn't the right-wing talking point supposed to be that? Sure, sexism / racism / homophobia was bad until whatever year this problem was solved but now they've taken things too far into misandry / reverse-racism / heterophobia / etc.
So there's an obvious way for them to map their beliefs onto this, and it's weird to see them pull a double-reverse on it.
posted by RobotHero at 12:23 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Isn't the right-wing talking point supposed to be that? Sure, sexism / racism / homophobia was bad until whatever year this problem was solved but now they've taken things too far into misandry / reverse-racism / heterophobia / etc.
So there's an obvious way for them to map their beliefs onto this, and it's weird to see them pull a double-reverse on it.
posted by RobotHero at 12:23 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
I see Heathers as something of a Shakespearean tragedy, the various characters act out aggression according to status and long-standing sub-cultural grudges. Thinking about it, it reminds me strongly of that other great adolescent tragedy, Romeo and Juliet or West Side Story if you prefer. About half of the characters are dragged along through the movie by misplaced loyalties.
Another way of viewing Heathers is as a rebuttal to Ferris, instead of parental apathy as the starting point for adventures of self-discovery, the latch-key teens end up replicating and magnifying the abusive social structures they see in adulthood. And the adults in Heathers are villains or fools. As far as I can remember, no one asks, "why are YOU depressed?" They just cry crocodile tears and hold convocations to tell teens to stop being depressed. (Which is something that actually happened in my High School.)
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 12:24 PM on February 23, 2018 [21 favorites]
Another way of viewing Heathers is as a rebuttal to Ferris, instead of parental apathy as the starting point for adventures of self-discovery, the latch-key teens end up replicating and magnifying the abusive social structures they see in adulthood. And the adults in Heathers are villains or fools. As far as I can remember, no one asks, "why are YOU depressed?" They just cry crocodile tears and hold convocations to tell teens to stop being depressed. (Which is something that actually happened in my High School.)
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 12:24 PM on February 23, 2018 [21 favorites]
wow, this makes PCU look like a subtle, incisive takedown of political correctness gone wild on our nation's college campuses.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:07 AM on February 23 [2 favorites +] [!]
Wait...we don't like PCU now?
posted by exparrot at 3:10 PM
I haven't seen it in forever, but IIRC, while PCU jabs at the titular PC culture on the campus, it does so kind of light-heartedly, whlie its real "villains" are the hypocritical Dean and blue-blood Young Republican played by Jessica Walter and David Spade, respectively.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:35 PM on February 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 11:07 AM on February 23 [2 favorites +] [!]
Wait...we don't like PCU now?
posted by exparrot at 3:10 PM
I haven't seen it in forever, but IIRC, while PCU jabs at the titular PC culture on the campus, it does so kind of light-heartedly, whlie its real "villains" are the hypocritical Dean and blue-blood Young Republican played by Jessica Walter and David Spade, respectively.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:35 PM on February 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
> Wait...we don't like PCU now?
Watched it lately? It...uh...doesn't really hold up very well.
posted by desuetude at 12:37 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Watched it lately? It...uh...doesn't really hold up very well.
posted by desuetude at 12:37 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
What's a PCU ?
posted by Pendragon at 12:42 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Pendragon at 12:42 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
PCU
The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be.
I know that song!
posted by rhizome at 12:45 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
The three Heathers are incredibly powerful and ruling the school; they’re the people you would want to be.
I know that song!
posted by rhizome at 12:45 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
A high school senior visits college for the weekend, and stays at the wildest house on campus in this classic tale of anti-political-correctness.
All I remember is the chant "We're not gonna protest! We're not gonna protest!" and the fact that it was roughly based on a school some of my friends attended.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 12:46 PM on February 23, 2018
All I remember is the chant "We're not gonna protest! We're not gonna protest!" and the fact that it was roughly based on a school some of my friends attended.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 12:46 PM on February 23, 2018
What's a PCU ?
It's not a story the Heathers would tell you.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:47 PM on February 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
It's not a story the Heathers would tell you.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:47 PM on February 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
What's a PCU ?
Professional Culture Unit. It's a cultural heat measurement.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:48 PM on February 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
Professional Culture Unit. It's a cultural heat measurement.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:48 PM on February 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
"What is your damage?" is still one of my choicest phrases to stand in for "What The Fuuuuuuuck?"
posted by Faintdreams at 12:49 PM on February 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by Faintdreams at 12:49 PM on February 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
Since no one said it yet...
What's a PCU ?
$20... same as in town.
posted by some loser at 12:51 PM on February 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
What's a PCU ?
$20... same as in town.
posted by some loser at 12:51 PM on February 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
I mean, unless you long for the halcyon days of now, when young white dudebros will spend all of their energy and effort defending their god-given right to party in their fraternity house, while casually explaining to everyone else why all activism is dumb and annoying.
posted by desuetude at 1:00 PM on February 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by desuetude at 1:00 PM on February 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
I found the Autostraddle review/discussion about it to be very helpful in cementing my desire to never, ever watch this.
Good points there. While online "SJW" purity culture is a thing on some sites, it's just as much a bubble as, say, conservative twitter and facebook, and doesn't really reflect the status of LGBTQ people in public education.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 1:08 PM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Good points there. While online "SJW" purity culture is a thing on some sites, it's just as much a bubble as, say, conservative twitter and facebook, and doesn't really reflect the status of LGBTQ people in public education.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 1:08 PM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Another sticking point for me is that "Heather" was a common mid-'80s upper-middle-class white name, and that was why it was appropriate for a show about awful girls in high school then. If they were serious about offering something new with this show, they should have called it Sophias or Emmas.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:11 PM on February 23, 2018 [18 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 1:11 PM on February 23, 2018 [18 favorites]
A part of me wonder if the production for this is driven by the same fallacy in which the mass news media treats social media as the vox populi in spite of a notorious bias favoring cranks.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 1:17 PM on February 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 1:17 PM on February 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
While online "SJW" purity culture is a thing on some sites, it's just as much a bubble as, say, conservative twitter and facebook, and doesn't really reflect the status of LGBTQ people in public education.
excellent point - when you have racial/gender/sexual minority teens forming circular firing squads and enforcing conformity in spaces like Tumblr, that exercise of power is almost exactly in proportion to the lack of power that they experience away from the internet
posted by murphy slaw at 1:17 PM on February 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
excellent point - when you have racial/gender/sexual minority teens forming circular firing squads and enforcing conformity in spaces like Tumblr, that exercise of power is almost exactly in proportion to the lack of power that they experience away from the internet
posted by murphy slaw at 1:17 PM on February 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
"What is your damage?" is still one of my choicest phrases to stand in for "What The Fuuuuuuuck?"
For a little while I worked editing video game localizations; one project was Tekken 6 which meant I got to think of many variations on lines like, "Let's talk this over...... with our fists!!" (Because widely different characters all needed to say the same lines of, "Let's fight," and, "Oh no this looks bad for me," etc.)
Tekken had a lot of goofy ass characters, and one of them was a popular (martial arts) schoolgirl. I changed one of her throwaway, "What's your problem??" lines to "What's your *damage*?". That got noticed and flagged by the head editor, and resulted in a back and forth with me asking why I had changed the line. He thought I was implying the robot character in the scene was literally damaged and wanted to know what made me think that. Didn't I think it was confusing and inconsistent with other renderings of that line?
When I explained how I was trying to sneak in a Heathers reference — into the shitty story mode in Tekken 6 nineteen years later — he responded with an, "Ah," that I'm never going to recover from.
posted by fleacircus at 1:19 PM on February 23, 2018 [39 favorites]
For a little while I worked editing video game localizations; one project was Tekken 6 which meant I got to think of many variations on lines like, "Let's talk this over...... with our fists!!" (Because widely different characters all needed to say the same lines of, "Let's fight," and, "Oh no this looks bad for me," etc.)
Tekken had a lot of goofy ass characters, and one of them was a popular (martial arts) schoolgirl. I changed one of her throwaway, "What's your problem??" lines to "What's your *damage*?". That got noticed and flagged by the head editor, and resulted in a back and forth with me asking why I had changed the line. He thought I was implying the robot character in the scene was literally damaged and wanted to know what made me think that. Didn't I think it was confusing and inconsistent with other renderings of that line?
When I explained how I was trying to sneak in a Heathers reference — into the shitty story mode in Tekken 6 nineteen years later — he responded with an, "Ah," that I'm never going to recover from.
posted by fleacircus at 1:19 PM on February 23, 2018 [39 favorites]
Teenage suicide: Don't do it.
Having had no interest until this post on the blue I only now checked out the trailer, and now I see it's some kind of clever inversion idea in order to put a spin or fresh take on the original conceit as a pre-emptive defence against being accused of having exhumed something that benefits not at all from being re-mounted.
The inversion idea is clever because it interrogates basic assumptions middle aged people have about teenage coolness hierarchies, which is obviously a subject of great concern, especially to people who are teenage now. I think if you ask any teenaged person they'll freely admit that it's hard to know where to fit into this crazy world without the benefit of seeing your experiences lensed by the storytelling of a middle aged person savvy enough to get their spins on things greenlit.
One of the cleverest ways to interrogate a set of assumptions is to turn them upsidown or reflect them inside-out. These kinds of conceptual transformations signal intelligence to decisionmakers, while not unsettling them with tedious feelings of insecurity that may be associated with a conceptual transformation too complex for the decisionmaker to fathom.
In this particular case it likely helps that someone who did grok the original property would be unlikely to find themselves as cinema property decisionmakers, meaning the decisionmakers can keep a defensible arm's length relationship about understanding the property itself. You don't have to enjoy seafood to sell fish.
In short, this remake looks like good business. Popular intellectual property from the past reimagined offensively and anti-intellectually, ensuring solid clickthrough and chat about from enraged nostalgiacs. Doubleplusgood!
I hope their hard drive burns down in a fire.
posted by Construction Concern at 1:30 PM on February 23, 2018 [13 favorites]
Having had no interest until this post on the blue I only now checked out the trailer, and now I see it's some kind of clever inversion idea in order to put a spin or fresh take on the original conceit as a pre-emptive defence against being accused of having exhumed something that benefits not at all from being re-mounted.
The inversion idea is clever because it interrogates basic assumptions middle aged people have about teenage coolness hierarchies, which is obviously a subject of great concern, especially to people who are teenage now. I think if you ask any teenaged person they'll freely admit that it's hard to know where to fit into this crazy world without the benefit of seeing your experiences lensed by the storytelling of a middle aged person savvy enough to get their spins on things greenlit.
One of the cleverest ways to interrogate a set of assumptions is to turn them upsidown or reflect them inside-out. These kinds of conceptual transformations signal intelligence to decisionmakers, while not unsettling them with tedious feelings of insecurity that may be associated with a conceptual transformation too complex for the decisionmaker to fathom.
In this particular case it likely helps that someone who did grok the original property would be unlikely to find themselves as cinema property decisionmakers, meaning the decisionmakers can keep a defensible arm's length relationship about understanding the property itself. You don't have to enjoy seafood to sell fish.
In short, this remake looks like good business. Popular intellectual property from the past reimagined offensively and anti-intellectually, ensuring solid clickthrough and chat about from enraged nostalgiacs. Doubleplusgood!
I hope their hard drive burns down in a fire.
posted by Construction Concern at 1:30 PM on February 23, 2018 [13 favorites]
"Watched it lately? It...uh...doesn't really hold up very well."
I don't know if this is the right way to talk about PCU in 2018. If you're judging it by metrics on which it doesn't do well by 2018 standards, it didn't do well by the 1994 standards of those metrics, either. That was kind of the point of the movie.
posted by kevinbelt at 1:33 PM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
I don't know if this is the right way to talk about PCU in 2018. If you're judging it by metrics on which it doesn't do well by 2018 standards, it didn't do well by the 1994 standards of those metrics, either. That was kind of the point of the movie.
posted by kevinbelt at 1:33 PM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
I promise I'll read the article, but I am an incipient geezer and If you believe that kids these days are fragile “snowflakes,” is true of every generation of geezers ever.
posted by theora55 at 1:37 PM on February 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 1:37 PM on February 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
The villain is J.D. — and that’s the same in the movie and same in our show.”
So, my kid is a theatre kid, and they all are in love with the musical Heathers which came out recently, but also reworks the original script a lot, and so I've been thinking a lot about kind of what Heathers meant when it came out and what Heathers means to kids now, and...suffice it to say I don't think it's the right time for a remake, though I'm probably going to be dragged to it because of the popularity of the musical Heathers and the teenage position is that I only dislike the remake because nostalgia.
And one of the big things is that the kids all see JD as the villain a lot more clearly than JD seemed in the movie Heathers when we all watched it the first time. There's a lot of sympathy for the Heathers, and the musical remake makes Veronica very different, and it's just...like weird and kind of bizarre to me.
I think that really Heathers the movie may only make sense if you came of age in the same cultural context, but now they're trying to remake the movie while also being 'oh no this stuff is clearly monstrous.' Like - it just wasn't that clear back then? Which made the movie good.
This is weird and terrible and bleah.
posted by corb at 1:48 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
So, my kid is a theatre kid, and they all are in love with the musical Heathers which came out recently, but also reworks the original script a lot, and so I've been thinking a lot about kind of what Heathers meant when it came out and what Heathers means to kids now, and...suffice it to say I don't think it's the right time for a remake, though I'm probably going to be dragged to it because of the popularity of the musical Heathers and the teenage position is that I only dislike the remake because nostalgia.
And one of the big things is that the kids all see JD as the villain a lot more clearly than JD seemed in the movie Heathers when we all watched it the first time. There's a lot of sympathy for the Heathers, and the musical remake makes Veronica very different, and it's just...like weird and kind of bizarre to me.
I think that really Heathers the movie may only make sense if you came of age in the same cultural context, but now they're trying to remake the movie while also being 'oh no this stuff is clearly monstrous.' Like - it just wasn't that clear back then? Which made the movie good.
This is weird and terrible and bleah.
posted by corb at 1:48 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
I think Columbine changed how we see J.D.. Before Columbine, J.D. was one of a type of underdog high school misfits who expressed uncomfortable truths about 80s suburban teenage culture (or sometimes suburban adult culture). J.D. was just John Bender, Lane Meyer, Ferris Bueller, or Mark Hunter (also played by Slater) with no inhibitions about expressing his teenage angst through homicide. After Columbine, young angry white guys with guns were a lot less funny and a lot more threatening.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 2:16 PM on February 23, 2018 [30 favorites]
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 2:16 PM on February 23, 2018 [30 favorites]
Yeah, that’s how I feel about TEOTFW. “I’m David, and I’m pretty sure I’m a psychopath”? K bye. It’s not cute anymore.
I remember being totally blown away by reading Rage as a teen. Nowadays it’s out of print by Stephen King’s express wish. He knew when the time was wrong.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:25 PM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
I remember being totally blown away by reading Rage as a teen. Nowadays it’s out of print by Stephen King’s express wish. He knew when the time was wrong.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:25 PM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
The only self-aware sociopathic teenager dude I like these days in fiction is the protagonist in I Am Not A Serial Killer (based on an (imao) excellent book of the same name).
posted by rmd1023 at 2:32 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by rmd1023 at 2:32 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
J.D. was the villain, yes. The Heathers were more complicated than the superficial movie mean girl signaling they were given, sure. But if the Heathers are "the people you would want to be" or "aspirational characters" to you then, uh. You did not understand the movie.
Or, I guess, to be fair, maybe you spent high school dreaming of spitting at your face in a mirror after being pressured into giving frat guys blowjobs, having an eating disorder, getting so depressed you try to OD in the bathroom ...
posted by kyrademon at 3:12 PM on February 23, 2018 [11 favorites]
Or, I guess, to be fair, maybe you spent high school dreaming of spitting at your face in a mirror after being pressured into giving frat guys blowjobs, having an eating disorder, getting so depressed you try to OD in the bathroom ...
posted by kyrademon at 3:12 PM on February 23, 2018 [11 favorites]
But if the Heathers are "the people you would want to be" or "aspirational characters" to you then, uh. You did not understand the movie.
If the Heathers were the people you wanted to be, the tv show Scream Queens was already made for you.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:34 PM on February 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
If the Heathers were the people you wanted to be, the tv show Scream Queens was already made for you.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:34 PM on February 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
I saw the original when it first came out and I was pretty clear that neither the Heathers or JD by the end were supposed to be aspirational. The entire point of the very end was for Heather to try and find a third way that incorporated compassion.
JD may have hated Heather, but he didn't really love the underdogs, either.
posted by lumpenprole at 4:23 PM on February 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
JD may have hated Heather, but he didn't really love the underdogs, either.
posted by lumpenprole at 4:23 PM on February 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
Part of the brilliance of Heathers is that Veronica and J.D. were introduced as stock characters from a dozen other teen comedies of the 1980s, destined to get comedic vindication and/or enlightenment by the end of the film. (The adult version usually had Bill Murray.) An example Better of Dead where the protagonist repeatedly attempts suicide only to be saved by last-minute comedic accidents. We're primed throughout the kitchen scene of Heathers for some form of deus ex scriptwriter to save Veronica from herself until she realizes she doesn't really want Heather Chandler dead ...
... then Heather Chandler falls backwards through her coffee table and dies.
Which is why I think Heathers was perfect for 1988, but likely not so perfect for 2018 where ghoulish and edgy teen comedies are the new normal.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 5:12 PM on February 23, 2018 [15 favorites]
... then Heather Chandler falls backwards through her coffee table and dies.
Which is why I think Heathers was perfect for 1988, but likely not so perfect for 2018 where ghoulish and edgy teen comedies are the new normal.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 5:12 PM on February 23, 2018 [15 favorites]
Sounds like someone had a brain tumor for breakfast.
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:00 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:00 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
OK so in a fit of optimism I watched this thinking that surely there was some nuance to all these takes, people must be overreacting and reading too much into the head mean girl squad being fat and queer, and... no. No nuance, no reading too much into it, no overreaction. This is blatant and it is utter trash. I have to go listen to the Heathers: The Musical soundtrack on repeat all night to recover.
posted by rhiannonstone at 7:53 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by rhiannonstone at 7:53 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
confession time: I bought the Heathers: the Musical soundtrack because I saw that Kevin Murphy co-wrote it, and I thought it was, y’know, Tom Servo. In this, I was incorrect. I enjoy it anyway.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:41 PM on February 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 8:41 PM on February 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
To add to your confusion, Countess Elena, while it's not the Kevin Murphy from that sci-fi show, it is the Kevin Murphy from this sci-fi show. Which is the reason that show's soundtrack features a cover of a song from the Heathers: The Musical Soundtrack in a constructed alien language.
posted by rhiannonstone at 9:16 PM on February 23, 2018
posted by rhiannonstone at 9:16 PM on February 23, 2018
If that's his take on Heathers, I'd hate to hear his thoughts on Massacre At Central High...
posted by gtrwolf at 11:21 PM on February 23, 2018
posted by gtrwolf at 11:21 PM on February 23, 2018
Agreeing that the popularity of the musical (which I recently saw a stellar production of) may be a major part of this resurgence, and one of the reasons they thought it would be a good thing to produce at this point in time. But as corb pointed out above, the musical changed things a lot. I hated the movie, and I loved the musical. It's over-the-top, campy dark humor, clever songs, and lots of 80's kitsch. It appeals to those who don't even know an origin film even exists. It was almost like viewing the film through a "Hairspray"-type lens, which transformed it into something of a historical artifact whose tropes and attitudes could be sent up, mocked, stretched and heightened into the larger-than-life spectacle required by theatre.
And in that transformation, the film (for me) has lost its faux-edginess and all that shoegazing angst that (I believe) at the time, sought to set it apart as some sort of deep, significant representation of alienated and misunderstood teens. I really liked that deflation, and appreciated the skill with which the musical's creators were able to let all the bombast out and add in the camp and the self-awareness.
I guess what I am saying is, the existence of the musical (which really changes it all for the better and alters the DNA of the source material in very material ways) makes it impossible to connect this new show absolutely to ONLY the film. Their expectation of a positive reception for the show could be significantly skewed, since they likely have gotten good feedback from those who associate their response to an attachment or appreciation of the musical (which cannot be equated to the film- they really are completely different experiences).
That being said, it is absolutely the wrong time to promote ANYTHING that has at its core a character who seeks to enact revenge on society via acts of violence at a school. (Not that there is a ever right time to so that, of course. But you know what I mean.) The utter cluelessness of the show's creators to not IMMEDIATELY shelve this project only shows their ignorance and insensitivity. Stupid people have put out a stupid product, for stupid reasons. So even if the current climate did not exist, I'd boycott it for that reason alone.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 3:58 AM on February 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
And in that transformation, the film (for me) has lost its faux-edginess and all that shoegazing angst that (I believe) at the time, sought to set it apart as some sort of deep, significant representation of alienated and misunderstood teens. I really liked that deflation, and appreciated the skill with which the musical's creators were able to let all the bombast out and add in the camp and the self-awareness.
I guess what I am saying is, the existence of the musical (which really changes it all for the better and alters the DNA of the source material in very material ways) makes it impossible to connect this new show absolutely to ONLY the film. Their expectation of a positive reception for the show could be significantly skewed, since they likely have gotten good feedback from those who associate their response to an attachment or appreciation of the musical (which cannot be equated to the film- they really are completely different experiences).
That being said, it is absolutely the wrong time to promote ANYTHING that has at its core a character who seeks to enact revenge on society via acts of violence at a school. (Not that there is a ever right time to so that, of course. But you know what I mean.) The utter cluelessness of the show's creators to not IMMEDIATELY shelve this project only shows their ignorance and insensitivity. Stupid people have put out a stupid product, for stupid reasons. So even if the current climate did not exist, I'd boycott it for that reason alone.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 3:58 AM on February 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
If anyone wants to see a good portrayal of an adorable genderqueer character, then may I please recommend One Day at a Time?
posted by daybeforetheday at 3:15 PM on February 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by daybeforetheday at 3:15 PM on February 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
Twitter thread on the pilot episode starting with a discussion of Heather C. as the "unruly woman" and use of the carnivalesque.
This show is fertile ground for criticism! That's probably the nicest thing I can say about it.posted by RobotHero at 5:46 PM on February 25, 2018
I just watched the Heathers pilot and the Daily Beast article is pretty much my reaction. I had hope, since Stephan was excited and said the crew was pretty damn queer (and I do love Drew Droege, so he also gave me hope). The thing is, though, I think that they DO get that JD was the villain — so I don't think this is entirely "OH THE SJWS ARE RUINING EVERYTHING" but rather a call for centrism. The Heathers (et al) are clear Far Left Villains, while JD and (more so) his Fracking King Dad are clear Far Right Villains.
And, well, IMHO, centrism's a weird thing to call for. Especially in a show like this where it ends up just coming off as wanting to eat their cake and have it too.
I won't be watching anymore episodes — it seemed misbegotten from the beginning, but I had hopes since 'Heathers' was always one of my favorite movies. (Admittedly, one I've wondered how well it holds up seeing as when it was written/made, school shootings weren't really... a thing.)
Oh well.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 6:25 PM on February 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
And, well, IMHO, centrism's a weird thing to call for. Especially in a show like this where it ends up just coming off as wanting to eat their cake and have it too.
I won't be watching anymore episodes — it seemed misbegotten from the beginning, but I had hopes since 'Heathers' was always one of my favorite movies. (Admittedly, one I've wondered how well it holds up seeing as when it was written/made, school shootings weren't really... a thing.)
Oh well.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 6:25 PM on February 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
“Did you ever hear the tragedy of Heather Plagueis The Wise?”
posted by blueberry at 8:44 PM on February 25, 2018
posted by blueberry at 8:44 PM on February 25, 2018
BREAKING NEWS!
Paramount has delayed the premiere of its Heathers reboot, citing the Parkland shooting as the reason for the push.
The series, originally set to debut on March 7, will instead premiere later this year, according to The Hollywood Reporter. A statement from the network reads:
"Paramount Network’s original series Heathers is a satirical comedy that takes creative risks in dealing with many of society’s most challenging subjects ranging from personal identity to race and socio-economic status to gun violence. While we stand firmly behind the show, in light of the recent tragic events in Florida and out of respect for the victims, their families and loved ones, we feel the right thing to do is delay the premiere until later this year."
Well. Isn't that conveeeeeeenient. /ChurchLady
posted by ApathyGirl at 2:21 PM on March 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
Paramount has delayed the premiere of its Heathers reboot, citing the Parkland shooting as the reason for the push.
The series, originally set to debut on March 7, will instead premiere later this year, according to The Hollywood Reporter. A statement from the network reads:
"Paramount Network’s original series Heathers is a satirical comedy that takes creative risks in dealing with many of society’s most challenging subjects ranging from personal identity to race and socio-economic status to gun violence. While we stand firmly behind the show, in light of the recent tragic events in Florida and out of respect for the victims, their families and loved ones, we feel the right thing to do is delay the premiere until later this year."
Well. Isn't that conveeeeeeenient. /ChurchLady
posted by ApathyGirl at 2:21 PM on March 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
Especially since the first episode, available online prior to the premiere, has been getting terrrrrrrible reviews and has since been pulled.
posted by ApathyGirl at 3:14 PM on March 1, 2018
posted by ApathyGirl at 3:14 PM on March 1, 2018
What even is the Paramount Network, though?
I thought it was strange that the Daily Beast article didn't reference the show runner at all, so I looked him up and this is a guy who has almost zero credits, with a writers room of all men, most of whom also have almost zero credits. It's like someone let a frat house make a TV show, for a network no one has heard of.
2018 is truly a strange year for TV.
posted by Squeak Attack at 5:27 PM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
I thought it was strange that the Daily Beast article didn't reference the show runner at all, so I looked him up and this is a guy who has almost zero credits, with a writers room of all men, most of whom also have almost zero credits. It's like someone let a frat house make a TV show, for a network no one has heard of.
2018 is truly a strange year for TV.
posted by Squeak Attack at 5:27 PM on March 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Oh shit, is it Spike? Well, that explains a lot.
posted by Squeak Attack at 5:28 PM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Squeak Attack at 5:28 PM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Wow. How disappointing to hear this. It’s not entirely surprising given my experience at a screening of the original Heathers last night promoted by Paramount and the new show. Originally when I got tickets, I was told that there would be an “extended preview” of the new show... but they never showed a single second of it. Instead, the host was just like, “haha yeah, there’s a new show check it out soon I guess!” It struck me as bizarrely disorganized for an Alamo Drafthouse screening, and now hearing that the reboot is going over like a lead balloon I wonder whose decision it was to try to downplay the show.
I love the original but hadn’t seen it in a while. It still holds up but I felt incredibly uncomfortable at times in light of the most recent school shooting.
posted by marshmallow peep at 6:31 PM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
I love the original but hadn’t seen it in a while. It still holds up but I felt incredibly uncomfortable at times in light of the most recent school shooting.
posted by marshmallow peep at 6:31 PM on March 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
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posted by FirstMateKate at 10:58 AM on February 23, 2018 [8 favorites]