June 6, 2002
2:56 AM Subscribe
Leaving through the window. "Is music no longer about self-expression (with an emphasis on "self")?" and "A lot of the newer fans aren’t interested in the history or the people who were involved, it's a shame because there are so many great people to learn about and so many great bands that sadly, will never be emulated."
This post was deleted for the following reason:
Yes.
posted by PrinceValium at 5:36 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by PrinceValium at 5:36 AM on June 6, 2002
That's a stupid post.
posted by noisemartyr at 5:40 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by noisemartyr at 5:40 AM on June 6, 2002
Did you mean to link to this?
Even so, it reminds me of the many rants of someone who feels that earlier music doesn't get its due respect. While I am temped to shift into "old guy" mode and bemoan the fact that "these kids today just have no respect....." , I am also cognizant of the fact that every generation has the need to identify with a band or music style thats comparable to their peer group. I think anybody who has a passion for music eventually gets exposed to some of the oldsters/pioneers. Its just a matter of people like me, not trying to force the issue.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:41 AM on June 6, 2002
Even so, it reminds me of the many rants of someone who feels that earlier music doesn't get its due respect. While I am temped to shift into "old guy" mode and bemoan the fact that "these kids today just have no respect....." , I am also cognizant of the fact that every generation has the need to identify with a band or music style thats comparable to their peer group. I think anybody who has a passion for music eventually gets exposed to some of the oldsters/pioneers. Its just a matter of people like me, not trying to force the issue.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:41 AM on June 6, 2002
Looks like my link is hosed too. Scroll up to previous post once your there if interested.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:49 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:49 AM on June 6, 2002
It looks like a failed self-link, if lostbyanecho's Billy Maulana is the Billy Maulana who edits soundthesirens, which is the only link from lostbyanecho.
posted by pracowity at 7:20 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by pracowity at 7:20 AM on June 6, 2002
good thread read...I really empathize with what chucknhisfriend wrote.
posted by Qambient at 7:50 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by Qambient at 7:50 AM on June 6, 2002
To derail this bum post, I'd like to pipe in and say that I'm a little bummed that there aren't more bands playing in the vein of my favorite music -- that of the early 90's era 4AD and Creation labels. Great acts like Lush, Ride, the Cocteau Twins, My Bloody Valentine, The Jazz Butcher, etc. So many of those bands petered out by trying to follow the fad of sounding like they were playing in '68 (Ride), or turning pop (Lush) or just not releasing anymore records (MBV & Cocteau Twins) or just turning away from their style (Stereolab.) Anyway.
A lot of what has happened seems to be a result of the great buyout of Underground music that started with Nirvana. Also there are some really nice bands out today like Sigur Ros and Mum that are doing the good work, to be sure.
posted by n9 at 7:55 AM on June 6, 2002
A lot of what has happened seems to be a result of the great buyout of Underground music that started with Nirvana. Also there are some really nice bands out today like Sigur Ros and Mum that are doing the good work, to be sure.
posted by n9 at 7:55 AM on June 6, 2002
I agree wholeheartedly with you about Mum. I haven't heard the new LP yet; have you?
posted by Pinwheel at 8:00 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by Pinwheel at 8:00 AM on June 6, 2002
Kids today have a lot of knowledge of music of the 1960's, which is remarkable considering that was 30-40 years ago. How many baby boomers do you think are up on their music from the 1930's?
Oh and I think Lush's turning pop was commercialy successful, but they broke up because of a bandmembers suicide.
posted by bobo123 at 8:01 AM on June 6, 2002
Oh and I think Lush's turning pop was commercialy successful, but they broke up because of a bandmembers suicide.
posted by bobo123 at 8:01 AM on June 6, 2002
So many of those bands petered out by trying to follow the fad of sounding like they were playing in '68 (Ride), or turning pop (Lush) or just not releasing anymore records (MBV & Cocteau Twins) or just turning away from their style (Stereolab.) Anyway.
the cocteau twins are an old band, n9. it's hard for me to blame them for not releasing more albums. stereolab seems very willing to change their sound, which is fine and i certainly wouldn't say bands owe me the same sound on every album.
posted by moz at 8:17 AM on June 6, 2002
the cocteau twins are an old band, n9. it's hard for me to blame them for not releasing more albums. stereolab seems very willing to change their sound, which is fine and i certainly wouldn't say bands owe me the same sound on every album.
posted by moz at 8:17 AM on June 6, 2002
bobo: I think that's because music from the 60's was so different than what came before and what has come since. Not that all other music sucks, far from it, but 60's music is unique and also (imo) very good.
posted by caveday at 8:22 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by caveday at 8:22 AM on June 6, 2002
MBV bankrupted Creation with Loveless. It's too bad. I'm not sure why they all didn't all just go to other labels though.
I think MBV was in legal trouble for a while & there were rumors that Kevin Shields was gonna get sued if he didn't release any of the hours and hours of material he created throughout the mid-late 90s. I guess that's what happens when you shoot up all day & try to place 6 Vox AC-30s in the perfect setup for years at a time.
posted by password at 8:40 AM on June 6, 2002
I think MBV was in legal trouble for a while & there were rumors that Kevin Shields was gonna get sued if he didn't release any of the hours and hours of material he created throughout the mid-late 90s. I guess that's what happens when you shoot up all day & try to place 6 Vox AC-30s in the perfect setup for years at a time.
posted by password at 8:40 AM on June 6, 2002
didn't really understand the link but if it's people moaning the lack of good music these days... i don't sympathize. i think there is more good music being made today than i can keep track of. it just takes effort to stay on top of it. the best way to begin finding it, in my opinion, is to turn off your radio. i turned off my radio (and television) in 1987 and haven't turned them back on since.
one of the things i found really bizarre about the recent glut of cd swaps was that the majority of cds i received all contained music i'd already heard, which in my opinion defeated the purpose. a few of the MeFi ones i received were superb, but the CDs i received from the 3 other swaps i was on were pure dreck that i could have heard by turning on the radio.
there are many many bands worth investigating, regardless of your preferred genre(s). some of my favorites include Godspeed You Black Emperor, Sweep the Leg Johnny, The Dining Rooms, The Troublemakers, The Constantines, The Guthries, Starvin' Hungry, Bonnie Prince Billy, New Wet Kojak, The Star Room Boys, Tight Brothers from Way Back When, The Black Eyed Snakes, Lambchop, Freakwater, Thalia Zedak, Herschel Savage and The American Flag, Lift to Experience, The Notwist, Les Savy Fav, Jackie-O-Motherfucker, Low, Songs: Ohia, Do Make Say Think, Otha Turner, Mount Florida, Smog, Bright Eyes, Kleenex Girl Wonder, Banco De Gaia, Waterjuice, Bardo Pond, Black Heart Procession, Hochenkeit, Lonesome Bob, Paul Burch and the WPA Ballclub, Clinic, Joel RL Phelps and the Downer Trio, The Kingsbury Manx, Masada, Stars of the Lid, Murder City Devils, Dirty Three, Live Human, Damien Jurado, A Silver Mt. Zion, And You Will Know Us By The Trail of Our Dead, Anthony Brown's Asian American Orchestra, Jim O'Rourke, Archer Prewitt, Ralph's World, The Handsome Family, Doves...
the list is endless. sure, every record by every one of these artists is not perfect (with maybe the exception of Songs: Ohia) but they're miles better than anything played on the radio in the last 20 years and well worth investigating. they represent the best in country, pop, rock, ROCK, folk, experimental, techno, ambient, jazz, hardcore, lo-fi...
posted by dobbs at 8:54 AM on June 6, 2002
one of the things i found really bizarre about the recent glut of cd swaps was that the majority of cds i received all contained music i'd already heard, which in my opinion defeated the purpose. a few of the MeFi ones i received were superb, but the CDs i received from the 3 other swaps i was on were pure dreck that i could have heard by turning on the radio.
there are many many bands worth investigating, regardless of your preferred genre(s). some of my favorites include Godspeed You Black Emperor, Sweep the Leg Johnny, The Dining Rooms, The Troublemakers, The Constantines, The Guthries, Starvin' Hungry, Bonnie Prince Billy, New Wet Kojak, The Star Room Boys, Tight Brothers from Way Back When, The Black Eyed Snakes, Lambchop, Freakwater, Thalia Zedak, Herschel Savage and The American Flag, Lift to Experience, The Notwist, Les Savy Fav, Jackie-O-Motherfucker, Low, Songs: Ohia, Do Make Say Think, Otha Turner, Mount Florida, Smog, Bright Eyes, Kleenex Girl Wonder, Banco De Gaia, Waterjuice, Bardo Pond, Black Heart Procession, Hochenkeit, Lonesome Bob, Paul Burch and the WPA Ballclub, Clinic, Joel RL Phelps and the Downer Trio, The Kingsbury Manx, Masada, Stars of the Lid, Murder City Devils, Dirty Three, Live Human, Damien Jurado, A Silver Mt. Zion, And You Will Know Us By The Trail of Our Dead, Anthony Brown's Asian American Orchestra, Jim O'Rourke, Archer Prewitt, Ralph's World, The Handsome Family, Doves...
the list is endless. sure, every record by every one of these artists is not perfect (with maybe the exception of Songs: Ohia) but they're miles better than anything played on the radio in the last 20 years and well worth investigating. they represent the best in country, pop, rock, ROCK, folk, experimental, techno, ambient, jazz, hardcore, lo-fi...
posted by dobbs at 8:54 AM on June 6, 2002
Your 52 favorite bands suck.
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:13 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:13 AM on June 6, 2002
How many baby boomers do you think are up on their music from the 1930's?
Quite a few, actually.
One thing about kids who're into music from the 60s and dress to look the part is that they've had all that extra time to get the look* down: no mini-leather vests with the 48" fringes, no crochet square maxi sweater vests, for instance, better tie dye technology--not that anyone knew about tie dye until the early 70s, anyway--and so on.
They don't make hippies like they used to--they make better (looking) ones. Even more annoyingly preachy and sanctimonious than the priginalswhen they open their mouths, unfortunately--which is the down side of having all that extra time, I suppose..
*Better looking mods and punks, too, for the same reason.
posted by y2karl at 9:17 AM on June 6, 2002
Quite a few, actually.
One thing about kids who're into music from the 60s and dress to look the part is that they've had all that extra time to get the look* down: no mini-leather vests with the 48" fringes, no crochet square maxi sweater vests, for instance, better tie dye technology--not that anyone knew about tie dye until the early 70s, anyway--and so on.
They don't make hippies like they used to--they make better (looking) ones. Even more annoyingly preachy and sanctimonious than the priginalswhen they open their mouths, unfortunately--which is the down side of having all that extra time, I suppose..
*Better looking mods and punks, too, for the same reason.
posted by y2karl at 9:17 AM on June 6, 2002
Music has gone through circular trends in the past half-century or more, with Rock n Roll more or less at the center. 50's rock was decent, and the Beatles were just, well, they were the Beatles. The 60's were great for music. Then came disco, which, in my not so humble opinion, sucked. 80's metal was ok, which lead to early 90's rock and alternative rock. Right now the we're back at the bottom of the barrel with the stuff that's on TV and the radio, namely pop singers, rap and boy bands (which also, in my not so humble opinion, all suck). But getting back to the whole circular thing, I see some good stuff coming our way once we get all this pop junk out of our system. Rock will take over again. Also, I've said it before, but singer-songwriters are coming back in a big way.
posted by tomorama at 9:22 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by tomorama at 9:22 AM on June 6, 2002
How many baby boomers do you think are up on their music from the 1930's?
A few of us are...now. But there sure as hell aren't many of us that were into it in the 60's-70's. In my mind, at least, "real" music began with the early rock 'n roll of the 50's. Anything before that was old people's music.
It took me a while to get to the swing music that my parents liked. I guess I started with the fusion stuff of the 70's, and worked my way backward through jazz history. On the other hand, the leap from Eric Clapton to Robert Johnson was more direct - one song is all you need.
posted by groundhog at 9:28 AM on June 6, 2002
A few of us are...now. But there sure as hell aren't many of us that were into it in the 60's-70's. In my mind, at least, "real" music began with the early rock 'n roll of the 50's. Anything before that was old people's music.
It took me a while to get to the swing music that my parents liked. I guess I started with the fusion stuff of the 70's, and worked my way backward through jazz history. On the other hand, the leap from Eric Clapton to Robert Johnson was more direct - one song is all you need.
posted by groundhog at 9:28 AM on June 6, 2002
Kafka: you misunderstood the point of my post. those are not my favorite bands. they're just bands that i've heard (you know, thru the grapevine) are making good music. i don't have time to actually listen to them myself. like you, i'm too busy listening to my real favorite bands. if i ever tire of pink floyd, the rolling stones, u2, the beatles, led zeppelin, and genesis i'll check them out.
posted by dobbs at 9:46 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by dobbs at 9:46 AM on June 6, 2002
I'm sorry. I was joking (a la Your Favorite Band Sucks Onion T-Shirt).
That was actually a quite good list.
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:59 AM on June 6, 2002
That was actually a quite good list.
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:59 AM on June 6, 2002
Songs:Ohia. Mmmmm. Axxess & Ace is one of the Great Gods of my fave albums list. The title track on the new album is nummy too. (Frankly, all Jason Molina's stuff is terrific. But A&A is sublime.)
posted by Marquis at 10:37 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by Marquis at 10:37 AM on June 6, 2002
The new Mum LP is fantastic and if you can try to find the Icelandic import -- the lyrics in icelandic are great. They are fast becoming my fave.
As for Stereolab, I wouldn't say they owe me anything, but Stereolab sounded like 'Stereolab' from '91 until they started to work with Jim O'rourke and John McEntyre, I would say (so about '96.) Then they made a definite point to turn from the wide spectrum between Lo-Fi and Music for the Amorphous Body Study Centre (where they sounded very different on every release) and subscribe to the 'Chicago' sound or Jim and John (where they sound like these guys on every release.) Dots and Loops was great, but the tired Beach Boys and Tortoise style production gets tireder every release. Just MHO, but I have bought every album when it came out since '91 so I've been there the whole time as it were.
posted by n9 at 11:41 AM on June 6, 2002
As for Stereolab, I wouldn't say they owe me anything, but Stereolab sounded like 'Stereolab' from '91 until they started to work with Jim O'rourke and John McEntyre, I would say (so about '96.) Then they made a definite point to turn from the wide spectrum between Lo-Fi and Music for the Amorphous Body Study Centre (where they sounded very different on every release) and subscribe to the 'Chicago' sound or Jim and John (where they sound like these guys on every release.) Dots and Loops was great, but the tired Beach Boys and Tortoise style production gets tireder every release. Just MHO, but I have bought every album when it came out since '91 so I've been there the whole time as it were.
posted by n9 at 11:41 AM on June 6, 2002
The great thing about music is that there will always be something to talk about.
Dobbs, I'm proud that I knew/heard of 2/3 of that list.
The problem today, if you consider it a problem, is that there is too much music of too many varieties. The easiest to listen to is the top 40 crap. I believe that one of the reasons why consider it to be crap is that we hear the same songs over and over again. I don't like Back Street Boys because I hear them everywhere and all the time. I don't like U2 for the same reason. I don't listen to classic rock radio because the songs I love are overplayed and I will start to hate them.
No, the best way to find and love new music is by the various magazines, Exclaim! being my current fave, and online, audiogalaxy with their extensive links system. GloriousNoise is a new-found fave as well.
So, to recap, I think that the top 40 system is crap, and much of the music on it is crap due to it's being overplayed. Ya gotta look for love, baby, it don't usually fall in your lap. Oh wait, here comes something now...
Check out I Am Kloot. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
posted by ashbury at 12:06 PM on June 6, 2002
Dobbs, I'm proud that I knew/heard of 2/3 of that list.
The problem today, if you consider it a problem, is that there is too much music of too many varieties. The easiest to listen to is the top 40 crap. I believe that one of the reasons why consider it to be crap is that we hear the same songs over and over again. I don't like Back Street Boys because I hear them everywhere and all the time. I don't like U2 for the same reason. I don't listen to classic rock radio because the songs I love are overplayed and I will start to hate them.
No, the best way to find and love new music is by the various magazines, Exclaim! being my current fave, and online, audiogalaxy with their extensive links system. GloriousNoise is a new-found fave as well.
So, to recap, I think that the top 40 system is crap, and much of the music on it is crap due to it's being overplayed. Ya gotta look for love, baby, it don't usually fall in your lap. Oh wait, here comes something now...
Check out I Am Kloot. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
posted by ashbury at 12:06 PM on June 6, 2002
n9:
to be honest with you, i do prefer the groop's older work. i really like melodic guitars (e.g. orgiastic or peng ! 33 from peng!), and switched on was just outstanding. (i've got it here with me.) i am not sure what the "chicago" sound is (which is ironic, being from the city). i know one chicago band i like a lot, called the aluminum group, has done some incredible work. though their last album was much more abstract (and to a fault).
jim and john, i can't say much about. the only indie name that sticks out to me is sean o'hagan, because he seems like The Indie Superfriend. first stereolab, then hawaii, then the aluminum group for a cameo. to whose aid shall o'hagan come to next?
i am also not mr. indie. i don't wear shirts that say "GO METRIC!" and it had to be explained to me recently what "emo" is. i would say that i am also not fashionably bisexual, but i would do so at the risk of consequent and merciless beatings.
posted by moz at 12:46 PM on June 6, 2002
to be honest with you, i do prefer the groop's older work. i really like melodic guitars (e.g. orgiastic or peng ! 33 from peng!), and switched on was just outstanding. (i've got it here with me.) i am not sure what the "chicago" sound is (which is ironic, being from the city). i know one chicago band i like a lot, called the aluminum group, has done some incredible work. though their last album was much more abstract (and to a fault).
jim and john, i can't say much about. the only indie name that sticks out to me is sean o'hagan, because he seems like The Indie Superfriend. first stereolab, then hawaii, then the aluminum group for a cameo. to whose aid shall o'hagan come to next?
i am also not mr. indie. i don't wear shirts that say "GO METRIC!" and it had to be explained to me recently what "emo" is. i would say that i am also not fashionably bisexual, but i would do so at the risk of consequent and merciless beatings.
posted by moz at 12:46 PM on June 6, 2002
ashbury: Check out I Am Kloot. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Natural History is okay, but I was. :(
My newest discovery is the indie-folk-twang-punk of Okkervil River. Oh, and Norah Jones is absolutely lovely for a change of pace. (She's an alt-folk lover's Diana Krall.)
(I haven't been able to track down the new Múm. Is it better than the Fridge and Dntel albums? I had been attracked by the 'IDM-meets-folk' superlatives, but emerged underwhelmed. For what it's worth, I dig Lali Puna and Sigur Ròs. Should I seek out Finally We Are No One? Advice?)
posted by Marquis at 12:54 PM on June 6, 2002
Natural History is okay, but I was. :(
My newest discovery is the indie-folk-twang-punk of Okkervil River. Oh, and Norah Jones is absolutely lovely for a change of pace. (She's an alt-folk lover's Diana Krall.)
(I haven't been able to track down the new Múm. Is it better than the Fridge and Dntel albums? I had been attracked by the 'IDM-meets-folk' superlatives, but emerged underwhelmed. For what it's worth, I dig Lali Puna and Sigur Ròs. Should I seek out Finally We Are No One? Advice?)
posted by Marquis at 12:54 PM on June 6, 2002
Another good place to get less well known music is Epitonic.com. I found out about half the bands on dobbs list from there.
I'm just a fan. I have no connection to that site. Don't bring down the self-link police on me!
posted by betaray at 1:04 PM on June 6, 2002
I'm just a fan. I have no connection to that site. Don't bring down the self-link police on me!
posted by betaray at 1:04 PM on June 6, 2002
One thing about kids who're into music from the 60s and dress to look the part is that they've had all that extra time to get the look*
Too, true, y2karl. In the '60s, we were working on the fly. What I don't understand is that with all the time they have now, how come nobody has nailed the most critical element of '60s music, the thing that made it so unforgettable, i.e., great songs? I do love many of the groups on dobbs' list, but where is the Burt Bacharach of our time? The Smokey Robinson? The pre-"Tapestry" Carole King?
posted by Faze at 1:25 PM on June 6, 2002
Too, true, y2karl. In the '60s, we were working on the fly. What I don't understand is that with all the time they have now, how come nobody has nailed the most critical element of '60s music, the thing that made it so unforgettable, i.e., great songs? I do love many of the groups on dobbs' list, but where is the Burt Bacharach of our time? The Smokey Robinson? The pre-"Tapestry" Carole King?
posted by Faze at 1:25 PM on June 6, 2002
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posted by PrinceValium at 4:55 AM on June 6, 2002