Enjoy your spot in antiquity! Say hi to westerns for me!
April 24, 2019 11:24 AM Subscribe
Romantic comedy is the only genre committed to letting relatively ordinary people — no capes, no spaceships, no infinite sequels — figure out how to deal meaningfully with another human being.
Rom-Coms Were Corny and Retrograde. Why Do I Miss Them so Much? [SLNYT]
And eventually, moviegoers got wise to it, and demanded better.
Did they get the better they demanded? Are there great movies being made now about relationships that turn out well?
posted by clawsoon at 11:59 AM on April 24, 2019 [16 favorites]
Did they get the better they demanded? Are there great movies being made now about relationships that turn out well?
posted by clawsoon at 11:59 AM on April 24, 2019 [16 favorites]
I think they are still out there, they just aren't as popular to the public as people in colored underwear jumping around to CGI effects.
Recent Rom-Coms I've enjoyed:
Two Night Stand
Man Up
Safety Not Guaranteed
A Good Old Fashioned Orgy
Mike and Dave Need Wedding Dates
Mr. Right
posted by ITravelMontana at 12:00 PM on April 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
Recent Rom-Coms I've enjoyed:
Two Night Stand
Man Up
Safety Not Guaranteed
A Good Old Fashioned Orgy
Mike and Dave Need Wedding Dates
Mr. Right
posted by ITravelMontana at 12:00 PM on April 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
(Regarding Russian Doll, the new Netflix show) In another version of this story, that connection would push them to fall in love.
Sure, ok, but I was so damn glad that this is not how it ended. As it stands, I think "solving their own dark problems by finding a more basic recognition and care for one another as human beings" is a lot more important.
posted by hopeless romantique at 12:00 PM on April 24, 2019 [19 favorites]
Sure, ok, but I was so damn glad that this is not how it ended. As it stands, I think "solving their own dark problems by finding a more basic recognition and care for one another as human beings" is a lot more important.
posted by hopeless romantique at 12:00 PM on April 24, 2019 [19 favorites]
I wonder if it's because the target audience (which is women, let's be honest) finally got creeped out that a lot of the rom coms were trying to celebrate behavior which was really scary in real life.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:00 PM on April 24, 2019 [37 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:00 PM on April 24, 2019 [37 favorites]
Romantic comedy is the only genre committed to letting relatively ordinary people — no capes, no spaceships, no infinite sequels — figure out how to deal meaningfully with another human being.
I would pretty strenuously disagree with this premise. Westerns are essentially nothing but character studies, and largely about how ordinary people (of different kinds) learn to 'deal meaningfully' with others. Of course, there's a huge range in the genre, just as there is for RomComs. But on the whole, Westerns are character studies about 'How do I deal with this stranger in our midst?', or 'How do I reconcile their values with mine?'. How to 'deal meaningfully' with that Other Person is what drives any good Western, the plot usually being only a delivery vehicle for those character studies of conflict and reconciliation.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:03 PM on April 24, 2019 [7 favorites]
I would pretty strenuously disagree with this premise. Westerns are essentially nothing but character studies, and largely about how ordinary people (of different kinds) learn to 'deal meaningfully' with others. Of course, there's a huge range in the genre, just as there is for RomComs. But on the whole, Westerns are character studies about 'How do I deal with this stranger in our midst?', or 'How do I reconcile their values with mine?'. How to 'deal meaningfully' with that Other Person is what drives any good Western, the plot usually being only a delivery vehicle for those character studies of conflict and reconciliation.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:03 PM on April 24, 2019 [7 favorites]
I think we all have our pet theories, but the article is actually very good and well worth a read.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:03 PM on April 24, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:03 PM on April 24, 2019 [7 favorites]
His longing is very sweet and well argued, but he seems to be talking about different, better movies. I was depressed by When Harry Met Sally, and as for Kate & Leopold, which he discusses, I never saw it because I learned that she ended up leaving the 20th century for him, and I am not here for a movie that posits that one specific man is worth giving up antibiotics and the right to vote. But then, I was decades younger than the target demographics for these movies at the time.
I think there is definitely a market for sweet, frothy romance that doesn't insult the intelligence, and that Kindle is filling it. Netflix has got romcoms if you want them. But I have always preferred romances that take place within a web of other concerns and events, just like the best ones do in real life. Part of what is so offputting about romantic comedies is the fakeness of everything else in the couple's world.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:03 PM on April 24, 2019 [15 favorites]
I think there is definitely a market for sweet, frothy romance that doesn't insult the intelligence, and that Kindle is filling it. Netflix has got romcoms if you want them. But I have always preferred romances that take place within a web of other concerns and events, just like the best ones do in real life. Part of what is so offputting about romantic comedies is the fakeness of everything else in the couple's world.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:03 PM on April 24, 2019 [15 favorites]
And another thing:
they just aren't as popular to the public as people in colored underwear jumping around to CGI effects.
I've had a bit of a crash course in MCU films as of late (my roommate has been an occasional panelist on a podcast analyzing each of the preceding Marvel films leading up to Endgame). And while I wouldn't put them in the same bucket as something like Casablanca, necessarily, what I've been surprised by is that there's actually more of a "there" there with many of the MCU films than you'd think. Those "people in colored underwear" are actually taking part in stories with things to say about things like finding happiness with a chosen family, struggling with the transition from adolescence to adulthood, deciding whether you're going to share your privilege or whether doing so will be a dis-service to you, and other thought-provoking ideas.
People also used to belittle rom-coms as being too silly, don't forget.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:09 PM on April 24, 2019 [25 favorites]
they just aren't as popular to the public as people in colored underwear jumping around to CGI effects.
I've had a bit of a crash course in MCU films as of late (my roommate has been an occasional panelist on a podcast analyzing each of the preceding Marvel films leading up to Endgame). And while I wouldn't put them in the same bucket as something like Casablanca, necessarily, what I've been surprised by is that there's actually more of a "there" there with many of the MCU films than you'd think. Those "people in colored underwear" are actually taking part in stories with things to say about things like finding happiness with a chosen family, struggling with the transition from adolescence to adulthood, deciding whether you're going to share your privilege or whether doing so will be a dis-service to you, and other thought-provoking ideas.
People also used to belittle rom-coms as being too silly, don't forget.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:09 PM on April 24, 2019 [25 favorites]
Pick a ship. Any ship. Seriously. Pick an AU and write something that isn't actually an AU. Make them soulmates, give them matching tattoos or countdown clocks or the magic ability to communicate with their future beloved. Or just put them to work at a coffee shop. Have them fake dating. Force them to share a bed. Let the main character fuck a monster without it ending in tragedy.
People didn't stop liking corny in their romance. People didn't even stop liking problematic romances. The standards are changing, but god. Okay, I get that ABO isn't for everybody, god knows it isn't for me, but AO3 is seriously right there giving you actual metrics for the kind of love stories people actually like and engage with.
tldr: just give us the actual romcom version of Venom you cowards
posted by Sequence at 12:17 PM on April 24, 2019 [29 favorites]
People didn't stop liking corny in their romance. People didn't even stop liking problematic romances. The standards are changing, but god. Okay, I get that ABO isn't for everybody, god knows it isn't for me, but AO3 is seriously right there giving you actual metrics for the kind of love stories people actually like and engage with.
tldr: just give us the actual romcom version of Venom you cowards
posted by Sequence at 12:17 PM on April 24, 2019 [29 favorites]
"I would pretty strenuously disagree with [the premise that 'romantic comedy is the only genre committed to letting relatively ordinary people ... figure out how to deal meaningfully with another human being']."
I would also object. I agree with your inclusion of westerns, and I'd add sports movies, non-romantic comedies, and coming-of-age movies like Stand by Me or Dazed and Confused (and, for that matter, most war movies, albeit with more special effects). Of course, those are declining too, so...
This is actually why I think rom-coms age so well. If you look back at the Golden Age of Hollywood, a lot of the scripts were pretty meager. Much of the moviemaking process was just "let's let Cary Grant be Cary Grant, and Katharine Hepburn be Katharine Hepburn, and have them onscreen together talking to each other". The characters in Bringing Up Baby and the Philadelphia Story were ostensibly different, but both movies boil down to Grant and Hepburn having fun with each other. It's a formula that works, and it worked just as well with Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks. No need to over-complicate matters.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:24 PM on April 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
I would also object. I agree with your inclusion of westerns, and I'd add sports movies, non-romantic comedies, and coming-of-age movies like Stand by Me or Dazed and Confused (and, for that matter, most war movies, albeit with more special effects). Of course, those are declining too, so...
This is actually why I think rom-coms age so well. If you look back at the Golden Age of Hollywood, a lot of the scripts were pretty meager. Much of the moviemaking process was just "let's let Cary Grant be Cary Grant, and Katharine Hepburn be Katharine Hepburn, and have them onscreen together talking to each other". The characters in Bringing Up Baby and the Philadelphia Story were ostensibly different, but both movies boil down to Grant and Hepburn having fun with each other. It's a formula that works, and it worked just as well with Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks. No need to over-complicate matters.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:24 PM on April 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
I agree with the writer overall and have searched Netflix for romantic comedies more times that I care to admit, but I think maybe comedies in general are having a difficult time. Movies have tended to get more and more serious and "epic" in the last decade or so. How many movies are about ordinary people with ordinary problems now? How many are genuinely lighthearted and gentle, with a happy ending practically guaranteed?
There have been some really blockbuster romantic movies and books in the last ten years. They just haven't been romantic comedies. Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey were (are?) enormous. Like the writer cites, A Star is Born was really successful. I'm not big on those movies because (ironically, I guess), they feel really retrograde to me, and because I prefer smaller stories about ordinary people, and because, honestly, sometimes I just want to see people be nice to each other and wind up happily ever after in the end.
There aren't all that many movies about people being nice to each other and winding up happily ever after right now, and I think the writer is correct: when there are movies like that, they're about platonic relationships, usually with just one gender in the mix. Which is a very interesting observation, I think.
posted by rue72 at 12:24 PM on April 24, 2019 [9 favorites]
There have been some really blockbuster romantic movies and books in the last ten years. They just haven't been romantic comedies. Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey were (are?) enormous. Like the writer cites, A Star is Born was really successful. I'm not big on those movies because (ironically, I guess), they feel really retrograde to me, and because I prefer smaller stories about ordinary people, and because, honestly, sometimes I just want to see people be nice to each other and wind up happily ever after in the end.
There aren't all that many movies about people being nice to each other and winding up happily ever after right now, and I think the writer is correct: when there are movies like that, they're about platonic relationships, usually with just one gender in the mix. Which is a very interesting observation, I think.
posted by rue72 at 12:24 PM on April 24, 2019 [9 favorites]
We might be readier to return to it than we know. In the past three years, we’ve made hits of downbeat love stories like “Moonlight” and “La La Land” and “A Star Is Born.” Maybe that’s where we are right now: pragmatic, skeptical, in the mood for romantic tragedy, just like that previous ebb in the ’70s.
The history of movie genres are cyclical, so this take is a solid bet, only now, as the article also mentions, the existence of mid-tier movies themselves are more troubled with so many other options for audiences, so that makes the future of them harder to predict.
I don't, however, think it was ever so much a question of honesty per se that drove the popularity of romantic comedies, they've always been more wish fulfillment fantasies than honest and no one was really fooled by that. The manner in which those fantasies can work though is colored by the era and it is decidedly true that many viewers have rejected some of the old formulas for the light that's been shed on the problematic aspects of the plotting and characters.
So many articles have been written complaining about how they celebrate stalking and elements like the so-called manic pixie dream girls that younger audiences come into the genre jaded. That's fine in some ways, many romantic comedies did have elements that don't translate well to today's era. The earlier one's that still play are often those that have reason for keeping the couple apart due as much to the moral standards of the film industry that no longer apply. That makes creating tension between the couple that can last a whole movie more difficult. If Hollywood keeps financing mid-tier films, romantic comedies will be back in some form, quite possibly less hetero and troubling then before. The genre has been strong in other countries with commercial film industries that run interesting variations on the genre, so it isn't dead yet even if Hollywood isn't financing many right now.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:25 PM on April 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
The history of movie genres are cyclical, so this take is a solid bet, only now, as the article also mentions, the existence of mid-tier movies themselves are more troubled with so many other options for audiences, so that makes the future of them harder to predict.
I don't, however, think it was ever so much a question of honesty per se that drove the popularity of romantic comedies, they've always been more wish fulfillment fantasies than honest and no one was really fooled by that. The manner in which those fantasies can work though is colored by the era and it is decidedly true that many viewers have rejected some of the old formulas for the light that's been shed on the problematic aspects of the plotting and characters.
So many articles have been written complaining about how they celebrate stalking and elements like the so-called manic pixie dream girls that younger audiences come into the genre jaded. That's fine in some ways, many romantic comedies did have elements that don't translate well to today's era. The earlier one's that still play are often those that have reason for keeping the couple apart due as much to the moral standards of the film industry that no longer apply. That makes creating tension between the couple that can last a whole movie more difficult. If Hollywood keeps financing mid-tier films, romantic comedies will be back in some form, quite possibly less hetero and troubling then before. The genre has been strong in other countries with commercial film industries that run interesting variations on the genre, so it isn't dead yet even if Hollywood isn't financing many right now.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:25 PM on April 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
I guess I also thought all the TV/streaming shows sort of covered some of the basics of the genre, but now as part of long form character arcs. I don't get much chance to watch a lot of those shows myself, but the descriptions sure sound like there are romantic comedy elements involved in the relationships in many of them.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:35 PM on April 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by gusottertrout at 12:35 PM on April 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
and as for Kate & Leopold, which he discusses...
...he discusses it, but also doesn't bring up the awkward plot hole where a) Kate's ex imports not just any aristocrat, but his great-great-grandfather, and b) since Kate ultimately wound up with Leopold, that means he was romantically involved with his own great-great-grandmother.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:36 PM on April 24, 2019 [5 favorites]
...he discusses it, but also doesn't bring up the awkward plot hole where a) Kate's ex imports not just any aristocrat, but his great-great-grandfather, and b) since Kate ultimately wound up with Leopold, that means he was romantically involved with his own great-great-grandmother.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:36 PM on April 24, 2019 [5 favorites]
Don't hate me, but... haven't they all just moved to "The Hallmark Channel", a production organization that has figured out how to template and produce them for the lowest possible cost and quality?
posted by jkaczor at 12:39 PM on April 24, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by jkaczor at 12:39 PM on April 24, 2019 [7 favorites]
Are they better than the Lifetime movies, which always seemed to be centered around "Women get abused, then rise above it" topics?
posted by Autumnheart at 12:43 PM on April 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 12:43 PM on April 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
I remember watching When Harry Met Sally somewhat recently, and being less interested in the main characters sniping at each other, and more interested in the B plot romance between their friends.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:47 PM on April 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:47 PM on April 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
Looking at Lifetime's movie lineup for today:
6am: Killer Coach
8am: Overexposed
10am: Killer Under the Bed
12pm: Murdered at 17
2pm: Web of Lies
4pm: Stalked by a Reality Star
6pm: The Wrong Teacher
8pm: The Assault
10pm: A Killer Among Us
Jesus fucking Christ. Literally a non-stop schedule of women being harassed, sexually shamed, stalked, targeted for social destruction, or murdered.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:48 PM on April 24, 2019 [24 favorites]
6am: Killer Coach
8am: Overexposed
10am: Killer Under the Bed
12pm: Murdered at 17
2pm: Web of Lies
4pm: Stalked by a Reality Star
6pm: The Wrong Teacher
8pm: The Assault
10pm: A Killer Among Us
Jesus fucking Christ. Literally a non-stop schedule of women being harassed, sexually shamed, stalked, targeted for social destruction, or murdered.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:48 PM on April 24, 2019 [24 favorites]
Jesus fucking Christ. Literally a non-stop schedule of women being harassed, sexually shamed, stalked, targeted for social destruction, or murdered.
And remember - Lifetime has used as their tag line "Television for Women".
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:53 PM on April 24, 2019 [9 favorites]
And remember - Lifetime has used as their tag line "Television for Women".
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:53 PM on April 24, 2019 [9 favorites]
Well, that's a different market filling a different need for women. I personally get mine filled by true-crime reading and podcasts. Women do this from pure human curiosity, from the desire to vicariously experience justice and to arm themselves with knowledge -- to stay sexy and not get murdered. I think it's not unhealthy in moderation.
Hallmark is offering a lot of cheap sweetness: A Feeling of Home, A Harvest Wedding, A Novel Romance, row after row of this kind of thing. So if you want a bland boxy-faced white guy who will not murder you, you have options.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:58 PM on April 24, 2019 [14 favorites]
Hallmark is offering a lot of cheap sweetness: A Feeling of Home, A Harvest Wedding, A Novel Romance, row after row of this kind of thing. So if you want a bland boxy-faced white guy who will not murder you, you have options.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:58 PM on April 24, 2019 [14 favorites]
Would we tolerate a cable channel showing non-stop child abuse and say it's not unhealthy in moderation?
posted by Autumnheart at 1:02 PM on April 24, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 1:02 PM on April 24, 2019 [7 favorites]
I had involuntary exposure to Hallmark Channel's content for several days via a neighbor with a loud TV, and noted in their usual 2PM to Midnight bloc of 'original movies' that their formula was to have little or no com with the rom, to be set in places with a maximum of scenery, to have both members of the couple be in the Top 1% or close to it, no content would earn it other than a TV-G rating, including the first serious kiss, which always came at the very end, after one or both of them had a major personal accomplishment (athletic achievement, business success, cooking contest win). The formula!
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:03 PM on April 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:03 PM on April 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
I love rom-coms, but I wouldn't go out to a movie theater to see one (except to show support, like with Crazy Rich Asians). My ideal rom-com mood is curled up in a couch or bed, at home, with my own snacks and blankets. You don't really need a big screen and Dolby Surround Sound to enjoy most rom-coms, and they don't tend to have the huge twists that would make me go see them quickly to avoid spoilers.
Maybe streaming services actually are the perfect place for them, and you're seeing that with the billion new Netflix rom-coms. Also see the rise of the TV romantic comedy: How I Met Your Mother, You're the Worst, & many popular Asian dramas let their relationships unspool at a semi-realistic pace.
posted by storytam at 1:03 PM on April 24, 2019 [4 favorites]
Maybe streaming services actually are the perfect place for them, and you're seeing that with the billion new Netflix rom-coms. Also see the rise of the TV romantic comedy: How I Met Your Mother, You're the Worst, & many popular Asian dramas let their relationships unspool at a semi-realistic pace.
posted by storytam at 1:03 PM on April 24, 2019 [4 favorites]
Don't hate me, but... haven't they all just moved to "The Hallmark Channel", a production organization that has figured out how to template and produce them for the lowest possible cost and quality?
I'd say instead that Hallmark became the home of the three-hanky pictures. Unless it's Christmas and then it's more the "heartwarming" kind of thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:06 PM on April 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
I'd say instead that Hallmark became the home of the three-hanky pictures. Unless it's Christmas and then it's more the "heartwarming" kind of thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:06 PM on April 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
plz back the kickstarter for my streaming on-demand video channel Marklife Timehall, which mashes up the best of both worlds to provide you with the ultimate in escapist romantic murder comedy thrills. here's a preview of our fall movie lineup:
Athletic Murder Achievement
Killer Business Success
Maximum Scenery Stalker
Fatal Cooking Contest Win
The Wrong 1%er
once we burn through our initial round of funding we will just be filming raunchy fanfic with the serial numbers filed off and you will def want to be there for that!
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:09 PM on April 24, 2019 [15 favorites]
Athletic Murder Achievement
Killer Business Success
Maximum Scenery Stalker
Fatal Cooking Contest Win
The Wrong 1%er
once we burn through our initial round of funding we will just be filming raunchy fanfic with the serial numbers filed off and you will def want to be there for that!
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:09 PM on April 24, 2019 [15 favorites]
Spoiler alert: Ordinary People is not a rom-com.
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:19 PM on April 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:19 PM on April 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
tldr: just give us the actual romcom version of Venom you cowards
/off to look for that YouTube video that pretty convincingly compared Kylo Ren's "Join me. Please." speech to Mr. Darcy's first proposal in Pride and Prejudice
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:21 PM on April 24, 2019 [5 favorites]
/off to look for that YouTube video that pretty convincingly compared Kylo Ren's "Join me. Please." speech to Mr. Darcy's first proposal in Pride and Prejudice
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:21 PM on April 24, 2019 [5 favorites]
Nobody's mentioned The Big Sick yet, which I saw in theaters a couple years ago and really enjoyed.
posted by foxfirefey at 1:32 PM on April 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by foxfirefey at 1:32 PM on April 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
Nobody's mentioned The Big Sick yet, which I saw in theaters a couple years ago and really enjoyed.
The original article does mention it, and dismisses it as non-standard - the learning and changing is much more one-sided since the woman is in a coma for a significant part of the movie. The plot is more about the guy getting along with the woman's parents than the two main characters getting along with each other.
The author may not feel like it matches his concept of rom-com, but I thought it was one of the more sweet and endearing movies I had watched in a while.
posted by hopeless romantique at 1:36 PM on April 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
The original article does mention it, and dismisses it as non-standard - the learning and changing is much more one-sided since the woman is in a coma for a significant part of the movie. The plot is more about the guy getting along with the woman's parents than the two main characters getting along with each other.
The author may not feel like it matches his concept of rom-com, but I thought it was one of the more sweet and endearing movies I had watched in a while.
posted by hopeless romantique at 1:36 PM on April 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
Would we tolerate a cable channel showing non-stop child abuse and say it's not unhealthy in moderation?
I take your point, but women are not children, and they have a legitimate interest in how other women deal with life-threatening situations, even if the particular media that does so is crap. Are men watching these Lifetime movies? Not in my experience. They have plenty of media that victimizes women; this isn't for them.
(Incidentally, we kind of did tolerate the child-abuse channel, although on Youtube.)
posted by Countess Elena at 1:55 PM on April 24, 2019 [4 favorites]
I take your point, but women are not children, and they have a legitimate interest in how other women deal with life-threatening situations, even if the particular media that does so is crap. Are men watching these Lifetime movies? Not in my experience. They have plenty of media that victimizes women; this isn't for them.
(Incidentally, we kind of did tolerate the child-abuse channel, although on Youtube.)
posted by Countess Elena at 1:55 PM on April 24, 2019 [4 favorites]
Romantic comedy is the only genre committed to letting relatively ordinary people figure out how to deal meaningfully with another human being.
The article doesn't mention it as such — possibly because it doesn't have a name — but there's a whole subgenre of comedies involving couples (ie people past the "romantic" phase) who have to figure out long-time partnership through comedic hijinks. They all follow the same pattern ("couple-in-trouble goes through extraordinary lengths to rekindle romance"). Recent examples include Date Night, Sex Tape, Neighbors 1 & 2, Instant Family, Couples Retreat, This Is 40, Game Night, and, of course, True Lies and Mr. & Mrs. Smith (which is mentioned in the article). The genre isn't new (Adam's Rib with Tracy/Hepburn, or Send Me No Flowers with Day/Hudson; see also Comedy of remarriage, but that genre died in the 1950s).
posted by elgilito at 1:58 PM on April 24, 2019 [9 favorites]
The article doesn't mention it as such — possibly because it doesn't have a name — but there's a whole subgenre of comedies involving couples (ie people past the "romantic" phase) who have to figure out long-time partnership through comedic hijinks. They all follow the same pattern ("couple-in-trouble goes through extraordinary lengths to rekindle romance"). Recent examples include Date Night, Sex Tape, Neighbors 1 & 2, Instant Family, Couples Retreat, This Is 40, Game Night, and, of course, True Lies and Mr. & Mrs. Smith (which is mentioned in the article). The genre isn't new (Adam's Rib with Tracy/Hepburn, or Send Me No Flowers with Day/Hudson; see also Comedy of remarriage, but that genre died in the 1950s).
posted by elgilito at 1:58 PM on April 24, 2019 [9 favorites]
Most women watch the Lifetime Channel for Women like the robots watch MST3000. It's hilarious!
posted by Wylie Kyoto at 2:02 PM on April 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Wylie Kyoto at 2:02 PM on April 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
As if rom-coms wouldn't be better if you added capes or spaceships. As if any genre isn't better when it's on a spaceship.
posted by waffleriot at 4:38 PM on April 24, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by waffleriot at 4:38 PM on April 24, 2019 [11 favorites]
As if rom-coms wouldn't be better if you added capes or spaceships murders. As if any genre isn't better when it's on a spaceship in Victorian London or a 1920s country house.
I didn't fix that for you, I fixed that for me.
posted by betweenthebars at 4:45 PM on April 24, 2019 [8 favorites]
I didn't fix that for you, I fixed that for me.
posted by betweenthebars at 4:45 PM on April 24, 2019 [8 favorites]
I really love a good romcom. I only rarely try new romcoms, though, because they're so rarely good and I'm so tired of the the frequent failures:
1) the thing that keeps them apart through the middle of the movie could have been settled with a single grown-up conversation that they're apparently incapable of
2) the thing that keeps them apart through the middle of the movie is that one of them did something really awful and they never actually earn the forgiveness they eventually get
3) stalking and other abusive behavior is the key to romance
I've ended up basically convinced that most screenwriters just don't have any idea of what a healthy courtship and relationship might look like. (Yes, I understand that they have to have problems. I just want to watch non-abusive grown-ups capable of grown-up conversations deal with those problems.)
posted by Zed at 4:48 PM on April 24, 2019 [11 favorites]
1) the thing that keeps them apart through the middle of the movie could have been settled with a single grown-up conversation that they're apparently incapable of
2) the thing that keeps them apart through the middle of the movie is that one of them did something really awful and they never actually earn the forgiveness they eventually get
3) stalking and other abusive behavior is the key to romance
I've ended up basically convinced that most screenwriters just don't have any idea of what a healthy courtship and relationship might look like. (Yes, I understand that they have to have problems. I just want to watch non-abusive grown-ups capable of grown-up conversations deal with those problems.)
posted by Zed at 4:48 PM on April 24, 2019 [11 favorites]
Rom-Coms are like anything: when they're good, they're good; & when they're bad, they're bad.
posted by ovvl at 6:53 PM on April 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by ovvl at 6:53 PM on April 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
As if rom-coms wouldn't be better if you added ... z o m b i e s
There, now it's fixed...
posted by jkaczor at 6:54 PM on April 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
There, now it's fixed...
posted by jkaczor at 6:54 PM on April 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
As if rom-coms wouldn't be better if you added ... z o m b i e s
Came for the zom-rom-com shout out - was not disappointed. A++ would snark again.
posted by ninazer0 at 7:20 PM on April 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
Came for the zom-rom-com shout out - was not disappointed. A++ would snark again.
posted by ninazer0 at 7:20 PM on April 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
As if any genre isn't better when it's on a spaceship.
You must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love this quantum hyperdrive!
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:53 PM on April 24, 2019 [8 favorites]
You must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love this quantum hyperdrive!
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:53 PM on April 24, 2019 [8 favorites]
It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single space emperor in possession of a good starship, must be in want of a green-skinned wife.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:02 PM on April 24, 2019 [18 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:02 PM on April 24, 2019 [18 favorites]
Romantic comedy is the only genre committed to letting relatively ordinary people...figure out how to deal meaningfully with another human being
And The Hallmark channel is cinéma vérité.
It's a pathetic genre precisely because it virtually always features caricatures of human beings behaving badly.
An exception to this rule: Obvious Child. (I can't automatically link - here's the review from Ebert's website - https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/obvious-child-2014)
posted by she's not there at 1:52 AM on April 25, 2019
And The Hallmark channel is cinéma vérité.
It's a pathetic genre precisely because it virtually always features caricatures of human beings behaving badly.
An exception to this rule: Obvious Child. (I can't automatically link - here's the review from Ebert's website - https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/obvious-child-2014)
posted by she's not there at 1:52 AM on April 25, 2019
I enjoyed this article and thought it got into very interesting territory at the end. It could have gone on much longer.
Kate & Leopold is a very self-aware film that is, in my opinion, as much about cynicism as romance, especially the director's cut. Leopold, the time-traveler, is permanently puzzled at the disappearance of integrity from the world. This was the fourth film from the writer/director of Heavy, Cop Land, and Girl Interrupted, and it's as good and different as those films. And it's so, so funny. I get why some people saw the preview and wanted none, but it's my favorite modern romantic comedy.
posted by heatvision at 3:05 AM on April 25, 2019
Kate & Leopold is a very self-aware film that is, in my opinion, as much about cynicism as romance, especially the director's cut. Leopold, the time-traveler, is permanently puzzled at the disappearance of integrity from the world. This was the fourth film from the writer/director of Heavy, Cop Land, and Girl Interrupted, and it's as good and different as those films. And it's so, so funny. I get why some people saw the preview and wanted none, but it's my favorite modern romantic comedy.
posted by heatvision at 3:05 AM on April 25, 2019
If you want to consume a medium that portrays human coming together, communicating, and creating a loving relationship, TV is a better bet than movies, and specifically Michael Shur's stuff (Brooklyn 99, parks and recreation, the good place) is really, really good at this.
And his couples don't do what always made me give up on most romcoms, which is: have a personality for the first ten minutes of the movie, then throw it out the window to be completely stereotypical one dimensional caricatures. So many (modern) romcoms have their plot line be "the complete excision of this person's personality" rather than "the interesting puzzle of how to make these personalities work together".
posted by Cozybee at 4:07 AM on April 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
And his couples don't do what always made me give up on most romcoms, which is: have a personality for the first ten minutes of the movie, then throw it out the window to be completely stereotypical one dimensional caricatures. So many (modern) romcoms have their plot line be "the complete excision of this person's personality" rather than "the interesting puzzle of how to make these personalities work together".
posted by Cozybee at 4:07 AM on April 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
I've ended up basically convinced that most screenwriters just don't have any idea of what a healthy courtship and relationship might look like.
Well, the screenwriters writing these romcoms, at least. It's wholly possible there are stacks of great romcom screenplays out there getting rejected by producers who don't find grown-ups realistic or sympathetic...
posted by Zed at 7:54 AM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Well, the screenwriters writing these romcoms, at least. It's wholly possible there are stacks of great romcom screenplays out there getting rejected by producers who don't find grown-ups realistic or sympathetic...
posted by Zed at 7:54 AM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
If anyone is looking for portrayals of relationships where humans actually talk & act like humans, may I point you to the under-appreciated anthology series called Easy on Netflix?
posted by mosst at 8:33 AM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by mosst at 8:33 AM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
> Rom-Coms Were Corny and Retrograde.
You mean, "hackneyed and sexist?"
Why Do I Miss Them so Much?
I have no idea. But there sure is lot of goal-past moving and No True Scotsman-ing to explain why anything that might look like a romantic comedy isn't really a romantic comedy.
Also, blaming feminism, #metoo, and the Bechtel Test for the decline is really strange, since mainstream films continue to be overwhelmingly male-dominated and sexist.
posted by desuetude at 11:13 AM on April 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
You mean, "hackneyed and sexist?"
Why Do I Miss Them so Much?
I have no idea. But there sure is lot of goal-past moving and No True Scotsman-ing to explain why anything that might look like a romantic comedy isn't really a romantic comedy.
Also, blaming feminism, #metoo, and the Bechtel Test for the decline is really strange, since mainstream films continue to be overwhelmingly male-dominated and sexist.
posted by desuetude at 11:13 AM on April 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
For anyone interested in romantic comedies, AV Club has been running a series called When Romance Met Comedy, in which "Caroline Siede examines the history of the rom-com through the years."
Personally, I think one reason we've gotten fewer romantic comedies from Hollywood is that both romance and comedy can be very culturally contextual. What works for an American audience may not translate for the overseas markets as easily as action-based movies.
posted by cheshyre at 3:55 PM on April 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
Personally, I think one reason we've gotten fewer romantic comedies from Hollywood is that both romance and comedy can be very culturally contextual. What works for an American audience may not translate for the overseas markets as easily as action-based movies.
posted by cheshyre at 3:55 PM on April 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
Yes, I understand that they have to have problems. I just want to watch non-abusive grown-ups capable of grown-up conversations deal with those problems.
Spencer and Tracy's real-life relationship takes some of the shine from it, but: Desk Set.
As if any genre isn't better when it's on a spaceship.
I never got that far into the Miles books, but isn't this Bujold's _A Civil Campaign_?
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:45 PM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Spencer and Tracy's real-life relationship takes some of the shine from it, but: Desk Set.
As if any genre isn't better when it's on a spaceship.
I never got that far into the Miles books, but isn't this Bujold's _A Civil Campaign_?
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:45 PM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Would we tolerate a cable channel showing non-stop child abuse and say it's not unhealthy in moderation?
The Harry Potter franchise should totally have its own cable channel by now.
posted by armeowda at 4:03 PM on April 26, 2019
The Harry Potter franchise should totally have its own cable channel by now.
posted by armeowda at 4:03 PM on April 26, 2019
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posted by NoxAeternum at 11:43 AM on April 24, 2019 [21 favorites]