Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

May 4, 2021 4:23 PM

"He made Belgium bigger and France smaller, it's not a good idea"
posted by any portmanteau in a storm (56 comments total)

the stone marking the boundary between the two countries had moved 2.29m (7.5ft).

oh dear oh my goodness won't someone please think of the children... 🙄
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:30 PM on May 4, 2021 [2 favorites]

Somewhere in the distance, a fresh levée of volunteers starts singing La Marseillaise...
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 4:41 PM on May 4, 2021 [5 favorites]

I am deeply in love with the idea that the border is determined by the placement of the stone, and not the other way around. The heist movie possibilities are amazing.

"Geneva banks will never authorize that transfer, only way we'll ever be able to get access to funds in those Swiss accounts is if we move the whole bank to France."

"But Jacques, how?"

"I have a plan."

CUT TO: a BMW tearing through a tunnel in the Alps with a border stone in the trunk. Elsewhere, another stone has been smuggled onto the Orient Express. There is panic at the UN as Belgium is split in two and this bizarre French geoproboscis peninsula pierces the Ukraine and continues its inexorable approach to Khazakstan.
posted by mhoye at 4:44 PM on May 4, 2021 [165 favorites]

Local Belgian authorities plan to contact the farmer to ask him to return the stone to its original location. If that does not happen the case could end up at the Belgian foreign ministry, which would have to summon a Franco-Belgian border commission, dormant since 1930.

I note with a narrowed eye at the French civil service* that the story does not explicitly say the commission has been disbanded, just that they have not had an active case in generations.

*My own experiences with them, and a plethora of anecdata from friends, suggests a marked lack of either civility or service to be found.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:45 PM on May 4, 2021 [9 favorites]

When I read about this I thought that the stone would just be a marker of the boundary that is otherwise defined so it's a bit of a laugh, but then I took a look at the border and I could believe that it was defined as wherever those markers were placed. I have enough trouble deciphering metes and bounds descriptions of generally rectangular pieces of land, having to describe that border would be no fun at all. Although I guess that most European borders are fairly similar in their complexity so they're used to it over there.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:48 PM on May 4, 2021 [2 favorites]

I really enjoy the Belgian mayor like "I thought it was great but my French guy across the border is PISSED"
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 4:55 PM on May 4, 2021 [18 favorites]

I note with a narrowed eye at the French civil service* that the story does not explicitly say the commission has been disbanded, just that they have not had an active case in generations.

You've got to know that there are public servants in dusty offices on both sides of that border right now getting very excited, like "THIS IS IT. AT LAST OUR MOMENT HAS ARRIVED."

In keeping with that border-heist idea, I would now like to know how somebody could disguise themselves as a 1930s Franco-Belgian border commissioner. Could I see the papers for this so-called stone of yours sir?
posted by mhoye at 4:59 PM on May 4, 2021 [26 favorites]

More like people who've been skipping work for the last 15 years who are about to be found out.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:02 PM on May 4, 2021 [1 favorite]

which would have to summon a Franco-Belgian border commission, dormant since 1930

*adds "Franco-Belgian border dispute requires raising of the dead via unspeakable rituals" to 2021 bingo card*
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:15 PM on May 4, 2021 [45 favorites]

I'd like the history of the farm. Wild ass guess but it probably predates the border.
posted by chasles at 5:21 PM on May 4, 2021 [3 favorites]

Franco-Belgian border dispute requires raising of the dead via unspeakable rituals

I wouldnt call them unspeakable exactly, it just takes some practice.
posted by aubilenon at 5:21 PM on May 4, 2021 [29 favorites]

Also I for reals want the border commission to get together. Like make trips to inspect the stones. Measure things with lasers and gps. Have meetings and call things to order and make motions and stuff.... To move the rock 7'


Also another thought. Who was the wanker "historian" who reporter the farmer. Bet he's fun at parties.
posted by chasles at 5:23 PM on May 4, 2021 [6 favorites]

which would have to summon a Franco-Belgian border commission, dormant since 1930

This does have a very King Ralph feel.

*knock on door*
*open door*
Good afternoon, sir. I am to inform you that you have been tasked with determining the Franco-Belgian border, as you are the last surviving heir of the last comissioners.
But I'm not French! Or Belgian!
*heavy sigh* It is very awkward for us as well, monsieur.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 5:23 PM on May 4, 2021 [55 favorites]

I sort of like the idea of these border stones. I’m thinking of a small engraved stone you can carry around in your pocket, so you can bring your border with you as you move around.
posted by njohnson23 at 5:26 PM on May 4, 2021 [14 favorites]

I don’t care what anyone says — Belgium is a lovely country, and we could all use more of it.
posted by Capt. Renault at 5:28 PM on May 4, 2021 [14 favorites]

I was talking to a person of Iranian descent in a bookstore in Seattle -- he wouldn't have looked out of place on a 4th century bce Athenian Red Figure vase, by the way -- who reported that some of the boundary stones of his family's ancestral lands were incised with cuneiform.
posted by jamjam at 5:58 PM on May 4, 2021 [30 favorites]

More like people who've been skipping work for the last 15 years

Well being in the civil service (not France or Belgium) I was thinking people who have had that written in their official HR-filed position description forever along with all the other stuff that's purely CYA and fluff, suddenly realizing, gulp! That's a real thing? I have no idea how to do that.

Usually in a 6 or 7 page position description, there are only a few paragraphs that describe what you really DO regularly. Plus the dreaded "other duties as assigned."
posted by ctmf at 6:00 PM on May 4, 2021 [6 favorites]

I wouldnt call them unspeakable exactly, it just takes some practice.

It’s called Parisian French and it’s classy, ok?
posted by mhoye at 6:17 PM on May 4, 2021 [16 favorites]

I don’t care what anyone says — Belgium is a lovely country, and we could all use more of it.

Shut up, Flanders!
posted by Sys Rq at 6:32 PM on May 4, 2021 [79 favorites]

There are similar border markers all over Massachusetts, delineating the boundaries between neighboring towns. A longstanding tradition is that every five or ten years, members of neighboring towns' select boards meet early on a Saturday to "perambulate the bounds" and make sure none of the markers have been moved. A bottle is usually also involved.
posted by adamg at 6:44 PM on May 4, 2021 [19 favorites]

"But Jacques, how?"

OMG, mhoye, I'm dyin' over here!! Flagged as fantastic. Best laugh I've had in a week!



Shut up, Flanders!

OMG this whole thread! :D
posted by darkstar at 6:45 PM on May 4, 2021 [5 favorites]

I’m thinking of a small engraved stone you can carry around in your pocket, so you can bring your border with you as you move around.

My personal border has been extended 6 feet around me (this past year) and I have loved that.
posted by Monochrome at 6:51 PM on May 4, 2021 [9 favorites]

adamg, that's so cool! It's traditionally called beating the bounds (there's a nice description of it in Thomas Hardy's Tess of the D'Urbervilles, IIRC). I can't remember where I read it, but I think there's also a old (thankfully abandoned) tradition of bringing a kid or two along for these sorts of public memory ceremonies and giving them a good whack at each marker, so that they'll have a physical memory of it and can serve as witnesses in the future.
posted by pleasant_confusion at 7:07 PM on May 4, 2021 [14 favorites]

My personal border has been extended 6 feet around me (this past year)

Wow, you must have some prodigious pockets (and ultra-strong garment seams) to carry those stones around!
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:10 PM on May 4, 2021 [4 favorites]

Found it! "It was the responsibility of the older members of the community to remember the boundaries, and the responsibility of the younger ones to learn them, so that they could be preserved for another generation. Pain was used as an aid to memory, and the form of attack was determined by the landscape. If they came to a stream, the children’s heads might be dunked in it; if the boundary ran against a wall, they might be encouraged to race along it, so that they would fall into the brambles on either side. If they came across a ditch, they might be encouraged to jump across it, so that they would slip in the mud. And when they came to a boundary-stone, the children would be flipped upside down, to have their heads knocked against it. In some spots, though, more pleasant memories would be created, by pausing for a glass of beer or a snack of bread and cheese. Finally, they would finish with a party on the village green." https://daily.jstor.org/beating-the-bounds/
posted by pleasant_confusion at 7:12 PM on May 4, 2021 [15 favorites]

but I think there's also a old (thankfully abandoned) tradition of bringing a kid or two along for these sorts of public memory ceremonies and giving them a good whack at each marker, so that they'll have a physical memory of it and can serve as witnesses in the future.

This is giving me very strong "something I've seen in a Ruth Goodman documentary" vibes.
posted by clawsoon at 7:46 PM on May 4, 2021 [2 favorites]

This border whacking is straying into Shirley Jackson territory...
posted by Tandem Affinity at 8:14 PM on May 4, 2021 [3 favorites]

Not until people start using the moved stone to kill someone.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:16 PM on May 4, 2021 [2 favorites]

honestly the concept of smacking a child so he'll remember is something I saw in a Terry Pratchett book, so I am certain it has a firm basis in English folk practice
posted by Countess Elena at 8:21 PM on May 4, 2021 [7 favorites]

The kid-smacking thing is pretty old. There's a passage in The Autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini where Cellini's father points out a salamander in the fireplace and then bonks Cellini's head hard. When Cellini asks why his father did that, the response is that now he will never forget the salamander.
posted by tumbling at 8:36 PM on May 4, 2021 [4 favorites]

"The farmer will now be asked to move the stone back to its original position "

-Caption on Getty images image.
posted by clavdivs at 8:39 PM on May 4, 2021 [1 favorite]

Metafilter: I have a plan.
posted by eye of newt at 9:53 PM on May 4, 2021 [3 favorites]

"Temporary Frite-onomous Zones", ahoy!
posted by lalochezia at 11:20 PM on May 4, 2021 [2 favorites]

I used to beat the bounds every year in my little village in the Westcountry. We hit the floor a lot with sticks, but no-one hit me. I think I can remember the way now, but maybe I would have a better recollection if there had been more beatings...
posted by fizban at 11:20 PM on May 4, 2021 [11 favorites]

The beating of the bounds still takes place in the London! Except that instead of thwacking the kids, we give the kids sticks and let them beat the border. Here it is in the 1920s and here it is 100 years later.
posted by yankeefog at 2:04 AM on May 5, 2021 [7 favorites]

Belgium should mint another €2.50 Euro coin to commemorate this (temporary) victory over France.

(in 2015 Belgium made a two euro coin celebrating their victory at Waterloo in 1815 and France, who were not the victors at Waterloo, objected to the design, so Belgium modified the die to add a ½ to the value since "eurozone countries can unilaterally issue coins if they are in an irregular denomination").
posted by autopilot at 2:12 AM on May 5, 2021 [30 favorites]

I am certain it has a firm basis in English folk practice

Tall laddie for a palfrey
posted by flabdablet at 2:33 AM on May 5, 2021

Homer Sykes - Beating the Bounds, St Michael's Church, Oxford 1973. From the Lucy Bell Gallery exhibition of works by Homer Sykes.
posted by glasseyes at 2:54 AM on May 5, 2021

Ooh, forgot - one of those photos is not safe for work
posted by glasseyes at 2:55 AM on May 5, 2021

Interesting blurb on that second clip, yankeefog
posted by glasseyes at 3:00 AM on May 5, 2021 [1 favorite]

Whoa, glasseyes, you're right. I missed that. I'm.. not really sure what to make of it.
posted by yankeefog at 5:01 AM on May 5, 2021 [1 favorite]

Some towns in Scotland, I think maybe the Borders area particularly, have the Riding of the Marches - everyone who can gets on a horse and rides around the town boundaries together. It’s like a parade really, I remember it being very exciting as a kid. Seemed to involve plenty of stirrup cups.
posted by ElasticParrot at 5:02 AM on May 5, 2021 [4 favorites]

To be honest it doesn't sound like what the farmer did was an accident at all.
posted by medusa at 5:16 AM on May 5, 2021 [3 favorites]

the story does not explicitly say the commission has been disbanded

It's like the story of the guy who got bumped off into a non-job and kept collecting paycheques, but since the 1930s. Once people start paying attention, the gig is up and that sweet sinecure will be gone.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:31 AM on May 5, 2021 [1 favorite]

In 1896, Boston sent out aldermen to check on the state of its markers with surrounding towns. No children were beaten (in 2012, my daughter and I set out to consider one of the markers, which is now well within the city limits of Boston, due to the annexation of Hyde Park a hundred years earlier).
posted by adamg at 6:10 AM on May 5, 2021

To add confusion, the market has an "N" on the north side, referring to the Netherlands - because it was created in 1819, before Belgium became independent in 1830.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 6:31 AM on May 5, 2021 [1 favorite]

Beating about markers seems way more exciting than modern zoning, with all the "whereas and thences" (really) and latitude and longitude readings.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:17 AM on May 5, 2021

I would really like to see a group of Belgian trolls put up “settlements” in the tiny sliver of misappropriated land, possibly populated by action figures in the narrower bits, then start handing out literature extolling the history and culture of Ruban de Paradis, as they will have named it, stretching back to its founding nearly a fortnight ago. What, after all, are dusty old historical claims, mere lines on a map, compared with the unique and vibrant culture that has taken root these past few days?
posted by gelfin at 9:09 AM on May 5, 2021 [8 favorites]

This is giving me very strong "something I've seen in a Ruth Goodman documentary" vibes.

Yep, Tudor Monastery Farm, with the inimitable Ronald Hutton and a borrowed archaeologist's kid. If I remember rightly, they did pick him up by the ankles and bonk his head on the boundary markers, just Very Very Carefully. Presumably with the AD hyperventilating in the background and muttering darkly about insurance.
posted by BlueNorther at 9:42 AM on May 5, 2021 [7 favorites]

Plus the dreaded "other duties as assigned."

Sure, it's vague, but the phrase is admirably more concise than, "Driving to Kazakhstan to find, collect, and repatriate border stones," n'est-ce pas?
posted by evidenceofabsence at 11:49 AM on May 5, 2021 [1 favorite]

The curious matter of Turtle Island.
posted by clavdivs at 2:13 PM on May 5, 2021 [2 favorites]

Sure, it's vague, but the phrase is admirably more concise than, "Driving to Kazakhstan to find, collect, and repatriate border stones," n'est-ce pas?

"As my grandfather used to say, 'A border stone in a stan is worth two in the field.' But it rhymes in Flemish."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:44 PM on May 5, 2021 [2 favorites]

I was curious about the "local history enthusiast [who] was walking in the forest when he noticed the stone marking the boundary between the two countries had moved 2.29m (7.5ft)."

Local coverage has the Belgian mayor providing a bit more context:

All along the border, there are markers that were placed in 1819. […] and on the 200th anniversary of the placement of these markers, history circles and local history buffs notably geolocated these sites very precisely.

I had rather hoped it was just some hawk-eyed nerd making their rounds when they spotted something amiss.
posted by wreckingball at 5:21 PM on May 5, 2021 [2 favorites]

This is in an area where the Franco-Belgian border looks a bit like an especially gerrymandered congressional district, so the potential exists to accidentally seal off a pocket of either country within the other, simply by moving a few stones.

On the other hand, considering that you can practically take a subway from Lille to Tournai, it is not quite as relevant as it might once have been.

I'm not surprised at all that someone noticed, though. There are stretches of road in the region that are still used for the Paris-Roubaix cycling race, where each of the individual paving stones are numbered.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:28 AM on May 6, 2021

I am deeply in love with the idea that the border is determined by the placement of the stone, and not the other way around.

Same. The rule with surveying is "monument over measurement", so where there's a big stone it is considered higher on the hierarchy of evidence than the scrawled distances and bearings of some half-cut surveyor.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:51 PM on May 6, 2021

"The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!"
posted by kirkaracha at 1:24 PM on May 7, 2021