Cedar the Goat

March 31, 2023 11:42 AM

9-year-old California girl wanted to save her goat from slaughter. Then came the search warrant [The Sacramento Bee]
posted by riruro (69 comments total)

Never change small town America and those who want to enforce "teaching the youth responsibility"
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:16 PM on March 31, 2023 [11 favorites]

What a travesty. The poor kid definitely learned a lesson about the petty vindictiveness of small town authority.
posted by getao at 12:33 PM on March 31, 2023 [35 favorites]

there's a Harlan Ellison short story that I read when I was maybe fourteen. It concerned a little kid who got caught shoplifting some candy or whatever. The cops got called and in their wisdom decided to teach the kid a lesson. So they took him to the station, wrote him up, fingerprinted him, even locked him in a cell for a while.

The final lines of the story were something like, "Timmy did indeed learn a lesson that day that would stick him for the rest of his life. He learned to hate cops."
posted by philip-random at 12:39 PM on March 31, 2023 [49 favorites]

But before bidding began the Long family changed their minds and tried to back out before Cedar was auctioned off, something fair officials said was not allowed.

My favorite thing about shit-heads like this is they always say some dumb shit about how, "Rules are rules." And then they proceed to do the most unhinged crazy ass shit b/c of some rule that some asshole made.

This is a county fair, this isn't the a grand jury or legal hearing. You can absolutely do the right thing. Also, these same assholes will absolutely change the laws when their own shit comes into conflict, but a young adult who just wanted to save their damn goat, nope, can't do it, rules are rules. GTFOH!!!
posted by Fizz at 12:48 PM on March 31, 2023 [48 favorites]

This reads like Modest Proposal-style satire, but it really happened. The lengths these people went to prove a nuanced point about husbandry is pretty bizarre. Hours and hours of employee time, hundreds of miles of travel and searching multiple places for a goat? What is wrong with these people? Don't they have anything better to do? Seems like they were fixing to hang these people for livestock rustling!
posted by dantheclamman at 12:50 PM on March 31, 2023 [14 favorites]

I suppose it would be rude to ask how this ends up? Because I probably don't want to click that.

And in fact, if it doesn't end up happy for the goat then nevermind, don't tell me.
posted by Glinn at 1:03 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

The fair officials should be added to next year's auction list.
posted by mittens at 1:06 PM on March 31, 2023 [12 favorites]

That was the saddest fucking story I've read in a long time.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:22 PM on March 31, 2023 [10 favorites]

Needs a content warning.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:22 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

Also, these same assholes will absolutely change the laws when their own shit comes into conflict...

From there, the goat was delivered to unnamed individuals at the fair “for slaughter/destruction” even though the warrant required them to hold the goat for a court hearing to determine its lawful owner, the lawsuit says.

The warrant said that the goat had to be held and they went ahead and killed it. Not a whole lot of respect for the law when it's in their way.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:23 PM on March 31, 2023 [55 favorites]

The poor kid definitely learned a lesson about the petty vindictiveness of small town authority.

I personally think the fair made the wrong decision is that I am ok with ranchers and farmers all deciding that they want to opt out of raising animals to kill them for their meat. Also I think they should change the rule so that anyone can change their mind and opt out of selling the goat.

“As a mother I am not unsympathetic regarding your daughter and her love for her animal,” Shasta District Fair Chief Executive Officer Melanie Silva emailed Long the next day. “Having said that please understand the fair industry is set up to teach our youth responsibility and for the future generations of ranchers and farmers to learn the process and effort it takes to raise quality meat.

“Making an exception for you will only teach out youth that they do not have to abide by the rules that are set up for all participants.”

I think they really thought they were doing the right thing. They weren't, but I believe they believe they were. Many people eat meat. Death is a part of life. At its most charitable, this is the lesson they're trying to teach.
posted by aniola at 1:28 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

I think they really thought they were doing the right thing. They weren't, but I believe they believe they were.

I think a lot of people really hate when someone younger or just anyone period challenges their authority.
posted by Fizz at 1:34 PM on March 31, 2023 [54 favorites]

My comment is based on the assumption that the person who wrote the above blockquote was not also responsible for what happened in any portmanteau in a storm's comment.

What precisely happened to Cedar –

and whether he ended up on plates at the community barbecue – remains unclear, Long’s attorneys say.

“At this time we don’t have that specific information and we can only speculate,” Shakib said. “While it hasn’t been confirmed as a factual matter, we believe the goat Cedar has been killed.”

posted by aniola at 1:34 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

Many people eat meat. Death is a part of life. At its most charitable, this is the lesson they're trying to teach

That is part of the “lesson” of animal contests at fairs, but (as some one who eats meat myself), the major lesson is that the system of slaughter must continue and can never be questioned. Since other children suffer, this child must suffer. Since other goats are slaughtered, this goat must be slaughtered. Since other children are hardened into a system of caring for an individual animal and then selling that animal for slaughter, so too must this child accept the system. It wouldn’t be fair to the other children.

It is in fact entirely possible to have livestock shows and contests where the livestock are not slaughtered. In fact it is done.

But to have a person not participate or to refuse cannot be tolerated because this calls the entire meat system into question, so an example must be made.

(Also of course cops suck.)
posted by Hypatia at 1:48 PM on March 31, 2023 [41 favorites]

So... growing up in a small midwestern town, my friend raised goats. He gave us one kid that needed to be bottlefed due to maternal neglect. We raised the goat, we named him Cinnamon, and we brought him to the county fair, where my little sister won a ribbon for showing our goat.

A person offered cash for Cinnamon, as a meat goat. My parents politely declined, and Cinnamon went home with us, later to be transferred to the school farm, where he lived out his days as a fat, happy goat, keeping our horse company and getting petted by the schoolkids who came there for field trips.

This is how it should be. The people who bring their livestock to a fair to show and sell can do that. The people who bring a pet to the fair to show for the experience, and want to keep the animal, should ALSO be able to do that. Not everyone is in 4H, not everyone is a Future Farmer of America, some people just somehow end up with a pet goat, and it should not fucking end in a crying, traumatized 9 year old.
posted by caution live frogs at 1:50 PM on March 31, 2023 [64 favorites]

So there's an auction. The seller and buyer both agree refund the money and return the property to the original owner, but the auction broker insists on completion of the deal, even if the broker fee is paid regardless.

Is that about right? Even before you get to the part where they involve the cops, it doesn't make any sense.

And in the end, it doesn't sound like the goat (or it's remains) ended up going to the buyer. What is even the story they tell themselves about what they accomplished here? There's no logic to it other than authority.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 2:03 PM on March 31, 2023 [38 favorites]

The fair itself also got mad about bad publicity caused by them refusing to allow a 9 year old girl to keep her goat.

Like most people I kept thinking at every point of escalation... it's a fucking goat! There are millions of goats! Just get a different fucking goat!

There was no reason to insist on slaughtering this particular goat except cruelty, pettiness and a desire to show power .

I hope they get goat poop thrown at them.
posted by emjaybee at 2:16 PM on March 31, 2023 [52 favorites]

A lot of people put a lot of effort into breaking a little girl’s heart. Seems like an apt metaphor for this country lately.
posted by TedW at 2:33 PM on March 31, 2023 [65 favorites]

Having grown up around sheep and goats, I can safely say that being pelted with goat poop, while not ideal, is not that big of a deal. It’s hard and pebbly, compared to the wet, cakey nature of horse poop or the ploppiness of cow poop.

I am dismayed that apparently no one noted the outcome of the fair before entering. While the pettiness and officiousness is real, the parents failed, as well, by not making sure that their child understood the nature of what they were getting into and preparing accordingly.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 2:34 PM on March 31, 2023 [6 favorites]

Having grown up around sheep and goats, I can safely say that being pelted with goat poop, while not ideal, is not that big of a deal.

Ok, then how about that their afterlife be suspension over a chasm with an endless parade of happy little goats trippy-trap trippy-trapping over their bodies with sharp little goat hooves? Forever.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:45 PM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

It probably wouldn't be legal or morally defensible for someone to dognap Shasta District Fair Chief Executive Officer Melanie Silva's favorite dog and return it a week later, after sending her a Tupperware container of vegan chili labeled with her dog's name the day after the dognapping.
posted by Reverend John at 2:55 PM on March 31, 2023 [13 favorites]

Darned tempting though.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:16 PM on March 31, 2023 [10 favorites]

Here's the thing. I know that right now, popular understanding is that conservative people don't want to change. Change happens when we fix the systems that allowed this to happen. And one of those systems is the hearts and minds of the people who did this wrong-all-wrong. It's easy to respond to pettiness and cruelty with more of the same. But what work will it take to make actual change?
posted by aniola at 3:24 PM on March 31, 2023 [7 favorites]

This is just awful. “Rules is rules” except when the law says you have to hold on to the goat until the legal status is decided, and then suddenly “rules is arbitrary.” So many heartbreaking lessons to teach a kid. Sorry for the pun.

I also couldn’t help thinking that reading this story about all this tragedy and brouhaha stemming from one little goat that a mom bought her child seems really fitting as we head into Passover in a few days…
posted by Mchelly at 3:41 PM on March 31, 2023 [9 favorites]

This may or may not be the darkest timeline, but this is definitely the shittiest version of Charlotte's Web.
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:48 PM on March 31, 2023 [33 favorites]

Not at all surprised this happened in Shasta County. Of all the rural places that have gone absolutely wild since COVID, this is certainly one of them.

Just this week the Shasta County board of supervisors voted to start hand-counting ballots rather than use voting machines because voting machines are the tool of a Chinese conspiracy to elect Joe Biden and probably cause COVID (which simultaneously doesn't exist).

Here's a good summary of the controversy surrounding the man who was offered the job of County Executive. It doesn't even mention he had to leave a prior job due to an embezzlement scandal.
posted by muddgirl at 3:51 PM on March 31, 2023 [12 favorites]

(apologies, it does mention the treasurer job and it wasn't embezzlement.)
posted by muddgirl at 3:55 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

But what work will it take to make actual change?

A potential solution by one who was once Metafilter's Own.
posted by Reverend John at 3:56 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

My buddy Nathan told this story to King David, and the king was irate.
posted by straight at 4:38 PM on March 31, 2023 [5 favorites]

My buddy Nathan told this story to King David, and the king was irate.

So? Who cares what some Florida porn star thinks?
posted by Superilla at 4:54 PM on March 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

I'm a meat eater who has gladly eaten Bambi in the past but I wouldn't want to chow down on somebody's pet as Cabrito. Pets or Meat all over again in the worst way.

My immediate thought was that the problem was the buyer: The goat was sold on June 25 to a representative of state Sen. Brian Dahle. Not necessarily that he himself cared one way or the other, but that all the other adults involved didn't want to disappoint a state-level politician.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 6:15 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

A lot of people put a lot of effort into breaking a little girl’s heart. Seems like an apt metaphor for this country lately.

I think a lot about the hardening process certain societal groups expose their children to: the idea that life sucks, you cannot change it (we will make sure it continues to suck, you cannot attain any power until you have been hardened yourself), and you must acquiesce to it. Very useful if your family needs to slaughter its own meat; if you cannot afford to pay a vet to neuter or euthanize your dog; if you are expected to become soldiers or administer the British Empire. And then you have people who have attained some power and gone beyond the subsistence level and they still say things like “of course we must let the older boarding school pupils beat and terrorize the younger, it’s part of the culture.” “Of course we must make the kids participate in the meat industry otherwise we’d be hippies.”
posted by Hypatia at 7:27 PM on March 31, 2023 [20 favorites]

I'm going to play devil's advocate and call BS on the family's sad story. It's shitty, shitty way that the whole issue was handled by both the Fair officials and law enforcement, but everyone involved in the situation acted like asses, except for the little kid and her goat.

My kids raised sheep and goats in 4-H, and they knew the rules about raising the animals for fitting for sale. The whole program was several months of teaching the kids about raising animals for meat production. Their little mercenary hearts were gladdened when they could sell through the 4-H auction, because the community supports the program and the kids' efforts by paying a half to nearly double what they would normally get at auction.

Soft hearts among kids and parents occasionally prevailed, but the rules were such that you couldn't refuse to sell your animal, everyone knew that. However, the producer could still bid right along with everyone else, and if you wanted your critter bad enough to pay the big bucks, you could get it back.

I'm pretty sure Longs would have had that option also, and they just decided not to do that. Alternately, they could have had someone bid on their behalf, and gotten the goat back that way. It's up to buyer to transport and pay the slaughter and wrapping fees.

So it's a sad deal that their daughter lost her goat, but I'm calling an entitlement issue on the part of the parents. Yes, mom offered to pay expenses after the issue came to a head, but the whole thing could have been avoided if they had just not assumed the rules didn't apply to their daughter and just bit the bullet and paid for the goat when it was sold. More Karen behavior with a sad kiddy in the middle of it.

...for the future generations of ranchers and farmers to learn the process and effort it takes to raise quality meat.

The whole process and effort to raise quality meat is accomplished by the fitting and showing of the animal. The only further process learning would come from carcass analysis, where things like live weight vs carcass weight for measuring yield, muscularity and marbling for determining grade yadda yadda, which traditionally applied to beef and pork. You actually do get technical with goat carcass if they're a meat breed, such as a Boer, Kalahari Red, or Kiko. Cedar was a male Boer, a meat breed and raised specifically for slaughter. Live carcass analysis is pretty accurate, and animals are grouped and sold at auction according to their grade. Female Boers raised for show are judged according to breeding quality and not destined for the slaughter floor. There are dozens of other breeds that are not raised for meat, and had the Longs chosen one of them, the issue would have been moot.
posted by BlueHorse at 8:16 PM on March 31, 2023 [14 favorites]

"The family entered Cedar into the Shasta District Fair’s junior livestock auction on June 24, 2022, the suit says, an event in which animals entered for auction are part of a “terminal sale” in which they are sold off to be used as meat – “no exceptions,” a fair brochure says."

Case closed. Signed contract. "had been purchased in April 2022" - "entered into an auction"... AN AUCTION. Hello? Which bit of the 'you signed a contract' am I and others missing? One has to ask why they were putting the goat up for auction....

Fire up the barbecue and pass the garlic and rosemary please. This is a story which has been escalated out of all reasonable consideration.
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 8:26 PM on March 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

There was some serious police over-reach involved. Shasta is a bad place.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 8:38 PM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

It seems to me that what should have happened is the parents pay for the goat plus some perhaps oversized fine. If they want to teach children how the world really works then they should have a “buy your way out” option. I’m not sure why everyone is so gung-ho on the goat dying. Is it really so important Cedar die?

Instead, the parents escalated when they jail broke the goat leading to police officers driving several hundred miles (!) to seize said goat. The other kid meanwhile will get to learn a valuable lesson about reading the fine or bold print in contracts.

(Also according to the article it seems the politician won the goat, heard that the kid wanted the goat to live, and was agreeable to some additional deal to sell the goat back. It was the fair that was adamant that Cedar die.)
posted by getao at 8:54 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

The collective trauma of mass slaughter in action.
posted by tigrrrlily at 9:35 PM on March 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

"O judgment! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason. Bear with me; My heart is in the coffin there with cedar,"
posted by clavdivs at 9:53 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

More Karen behavior

Can we not do this?
posted by 41swans at 10:08 PM on March 31, 2023 [9 favorites]

Why must some people be so ba a a a a ad?
posted by hypnogogue at 10:37 PM on March 31, 2023

It is entirely possible that the parents weren't aware of all the terms and conditions, because the thing they signed had sections in 6 point font :(

I'd love to see "anything in less than 12 point font isn't legally binding"
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 11:08 PM on March 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

Mod note: Re the "Karen" comment, just weighing in to agree that this isn't good on the site. It's something that began as a momentary jokey shorthand for a specific kind of racist behavior and has morphed into just yet another misogynistic term, and as such is against our guidelines. Content policy.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:12 AM on April 1, 2023 [17 favorites]

Raising an animal, feeding and taking care of it naturally makes a kid love the animal

Taking the beloved animal away, selling it, and having it slaughtered then becomes a deeply traumatic Rite of Passage into adulthood without which traditional animal husbandry could not exist as a way of life.

The people who were so determined that the goat be slaughtered no matter what were simultaneously defending a way of life, an article of faith as well as an essentially sacred rite, and also propagating their own PTSD into the next generation, as those with deep-seated PTSD are wont to do.

Those who believe a signed contract fully justifies these acts, both legally and morally without recourse or the need for further consideration, are defending an article of a Faith of much more recent origin.
posted by jamjam at 12:47 AM on April 1, 2023 [10 favorites]

if you wanted your critter bad enough to pay the big bucks, you could get it back

The auction rules for 2022 are on the county fair website. It says that buyers could send purchased "products" to slaughter, sell them to someone else at market rate to slaughter, or donate to the 4H barbeque. I don't see an option to buy and give back to the family that raised the goat. This also fits with what both tbe family has said and what the fair organizers have said. This also fits with every other county 4h description of a "terminal auction." There may be other auction types that work this way, but not this auction.

I don't think that animals are products so I don't think this was theft 🤷
posted by muddgirl at 1:20 AM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]

I am bear. Best solution is for all participants to gather in the woods, liberally apply BBQ sauce to delicious selves, and wait for adjudication from very fair Judge Bear.
posted by fallingbadgers at 1:59 AM on April 1, 2023 [9 favorites]

It really says something when cops and fair officials manage to be bigger assholes than a goat!
posted by srboisvert at 5:16 AM on April 1, 2023 [8 favorites]

I think what bothers me is that, even if you, as a fair official, have some kind of quasi-religious belief that this is a necessary trauma ritual, instead of a business transaction, you overstep when you decide it must be inflicted on someone else's child.

If my kid decided just before being baptized that she didn't want to go through with it and then the minister grabbed her and dunked her anyway, that would also be wrong.
posted by emjaybee at 6:30 AM on April 1, 2023 [13 favorites]

When you get down to it, fucked up systems are usually perpetuated by traumatised people who demand that everyone they have power over experience the same trauma.

Shasta District Fair Chief Executive Officer Melanie Silva will not allow a child to escape what she had to go through.
posted by zymil at 7:32 AM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]

The cruelty of officials in rural America did not surprise me. What surprised me was that the goat sold for almost a thousand dollars! I had no idea a goat was so valuable just for its meat.
posted by rikschell at 7:33 AM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

Goat meat isn't worth that much, people bid high as a donation to 4H and because they believe they are supporting young farmers and the farm way of life. It's basically a charity action. I don't see a USDA report for CA but I think in the summer they're around $4 a lb.
posted by muddgirl at 8:43 AM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]

I’m not sure why everyone is so gung-ho on the goat dying. Is it really so important Cedar die?

There must be adults whom the law protects but does not bind, and goats and children whom the law binds but does not protect.

It's the principle of the thing. If that goat wanted not to die it just shouldn't have been so fucking powerless.
posted by flabdablet at 8:58 AM on April 1, 2023 [9 favorites]

fucked up systems are usually perpetuated by traumatised people who demand that everyone they have power over experience the same trauma.

Totally. "Well, why not lick the kids? Tell you what, my pops beat me with a bramble bush every day of my life 'til I turned 16 and I turned out fine!"
No, bud. No, you did not.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:23 AM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]

It's always tempting to just post "the cruelty is the point" when these kinds of abuses happen, but this time it seems like that's literally the point.

“It was never about money,” said Vanessa Shakib, an attorney for Advancing Law for Animals who represents Long. “County officials were clear that they wanted to teach this little girl a lesson.”

“Making an exception for you will only teach [our] youth that they do not have to abide by the rules,”

Cedar was taken and slaughtered.

Can't let children grow up thinking property rights and contract law are subordinate to life and love.
posted by Reyturner at 9:27 AM on April 1, 2023 [8 favorites]

Like, the state senator who was supposed to get the goat and the law itself were both on the side of the literal child but because they didn't show deference to authority, they sent a kill team after this animal.

ACAB especially means county sheriff's offices. If there's one vector for mass killings in America, it's them. Death Squads in waiting.
posted by Reyturner at 9:41 AM on April 1, 2023 [8 favorites]

traumatised people who demand that everyone they have power over experience the same trauma.

Is that why they call it a fair?
posted by flabdablet at 9:44 AM on April 1, 2023

I grew up doing 4-H, but not meat animals. Our country did have them, it was a suburban area so they all were together at one farm.and cooperatively cared for. You were only supposed to sign up to do a meat animal if you were going to in fact send it for meat, and I'm sure the rules said you couldn't keep it. But I can't imagine anyone being at all horrible and weird like this about it if someone changed their mind! It's kind of sick.

You weren't supposed to name the meat animals. One year there was a lamb that needed bottle feeding and he was given a name and exemption from auction, but that family also had somewhere to keep him. One of the kids is now a sheep farmer actually, which is pretty funny for coming from the suburbs of Philly.

I don't think anyone was traumatized by the experience although I didn't do it myself. Decades later a lot of us are still in touch and everyone seems to have turned out OK. There was a strong culture of care and responsibility to the animals and they went to a small butcher. Years later I bought a lamb and pig with friends I'd been in 4-H with and picked the meat up from the butcher - it was clean and quiet with a herd of relaxed sheep right outside. Frankly I get annoyed at people who eat meat themselves but think being involved in humanely raising meat is some kind of twisted thing. (I'm also fully supportive of vegetarians and vegans, this isn't a pro-meat comment.)
posted by sepviva at 11:15 AM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]

This article would be better if the reporter had contacted the buyer, state sen Brian Dahle, to confirm that he and Long had come to an agreement that she would pay back the full purchase price and auction fee. If this is true, the fair authority has no leg to stand on, since the sale would be executed and the seller and buyer came to their own agreement. Why didn’t the reporter confirm this?
posted by toodleydoodley at 12:14 PM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

…the major lesson is that the system of slaughter must continue and can never be questioned.

Sounds sort of like some people’s attitude toward the death penalty (both formal and informal) here in the United States.
posted by TedW at 12:21 PM on April 1, 2023

>This article would be better if the reporter had contacted the buyer, state sen Brian Dahle, to confirm that he and Long had come to an agreement...

A spokesperson for Dahle's office confirmed this account, according to the LA Times.
posted by theory at 12:59 PM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]

Thanks for that, theory. I looked twice and missed it
posted by toodleydoodley at 6:18 PM on April 1, 2023

You know it’s a fucked-up situation when a Republican politician is the only person who comes off as a decent person.
posted by martin q blank at 5:54 AM on April 2, 2023 [3 favorites]

Shasta county reminds me of the apartment search sequence from Futurama: "...although we are technically in New Jersey"

The Shasta officials might find out that they are, technically, in California. "Enforcing" a contract against a minor for cruelty's sake.
posted by tigrrrlily at 10:02 AM on April 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

Origin story for a Silence of the Lambs reboot.

Hannibal Lecter: What became of your kid, Clarice?
Clarice Starling: They killed him.
Hannibal Lecter: That really gets my goat.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:14 AM on April 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

I am bear. Best solution is for all participants to gather in the woods, liberally apply BBQ sauce to delicious selves, and wait for adjudication from very fair Judge Bear.
posted by fallingbadgers at 4:59 AM on April 1

Do we have a 3-badgers-in-a-bear-suit situation here?
posted by LizBoBiz at 2:36 AM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

Some dug into the case and it looks like the fair and sheriff's department may have shot themselves in the foot legally.
posted by Candleman at 10:26 PM on April 3, 2023 [7 favorites]

Just checked into the thread, and THIS is absolute crap:

...fucked up systems are usually perpetuated by traumatised [sic] people...

The 4-H programs are designed to teach rural kids how to raise and fit meat animals for butcher. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO WILL PRODUCE THE FOOD YOU EAT! Why are you disrespecting them and their profession?

Future meat producers need to be intimately familiar with what animals need to grow and thrive and be cared for compassionately. If the kids aren't involved in an animal's welfare and don't feel compassion, they won't be good farmers. Corporations are not good farmers. Corporations produce chickens stacked six deep in one-by-one foot cages, fed them ground wood and feathers, and stuffed full of antibiotics.

I personally think that every person who eats meat, wears leather, or utilizes ANY product from animal husbandry should raise an animal and see what it takes to fit that animal for production. It's when kids think that the food they eat magically appears wrapped as steaks and bacon that they won't understand the moral and ethical decisions that need to be made in getting meat on their table. If you're too squeamish to see how your food is produced, how dare you eat meat, milk, eggs, or fish?

If you choose to be a vegan or vegetarian, good on you. But many people, and I am one of them, are not. I eat meat two to three times a week, for health and cost reasons. I have raised my own lamb, goat, beef, rabbits and chickens, hunted deer and elk, and although due to age I don't do that anymore, I purchase beef from the rancher up the road, and gratefully accept game from friends who hunt. I still fish and raise chickens for eggs. They aren't pet chickens, they are producers. First eggs, then broth.

Your judgmental comment that the system is fucked up and those of us who have participated in meat production are traumatized and have traumatized our children is crap. If you're not a vegan or vegetarian, you haven't got a moral leg to stand on. If you eat meat or wear leather, I hope you have trouble swallowing your next bite of hamburger.

Yes, this was handled badly by all the adults. The police actions were beyond ridiculous. But the fault lies with the parents who first of all entered their kid into a MEAT PRODUCTION course and then decided that rules didn't apply to them.

This is just one more case of people who want to participate and pretend to play 'farmer' but that don't believe rules should apply to them. If they wanted a pet goat, fine, don't eat the pet goat. Nobody forced them to sign up for 4-H.
posted by BlueHorse at 9:00 PM on April 9, 2023

If you choose to be a vegan or vegetarian, good on you.

You probably could have started and ended here. 😂
posted by muddgirl at 9:25 PM on April 9, 2023 [4 favorites]

You probably could have started and ended here. 😂

with the least-important part of their argument? it'd certainly be an odd choice.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:14 PM on April 10, 2023

I think that the children who will inherit the responsibility of raising animals for meat should be respected enough to have the opportunity to opt out of that tradition.
posted by aniola at 8:41 PM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]