One word to break the fascist fever.
August 7, 2024 10:31 AM Subscribe
‘Weird’ And The Breaking of The Fascist Fever “I hate when people laugh at me,” he said somberly at a rally in Grand Rapids, Michigan. “I hate it. Hate it. It’s so disrespectful.” This wasn’t a bit, or some practiced schtick he does for his adoring crowds. The Big Boy meant what he said: Don’t laugh at me. I don’t like it.
Laugh at these strange, weak men more. Yes. I'm glad he's on record as hating it. His impotent resentment sustains me.
posted by phunniemee at 10:38 AM on August 7 [67 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 10:38 AM on August 7 [67 favorites]
Could have done without the pointless snark about leftists and "normies", seeing as how so many of the people who have been whining about "weird" are the same centrist assholes who wanted an open convention nomination and consider adding Walz to the ticket to be rank antisemitism and political suicide.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:44 AM on August 7 [32 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:44 AM on August 7 [32 favorites]
It's insanely reductive to say "no one cares about policy," but one class in particular absolutely doesn't -- the children and bootlicking sociopaths who make up the majority of the political press/pundit corps (b/c, well, they're children and bootlicking sociopaths). But yeah, I've been a little befuddled by the pushback on the "weird" narrative from people at least nominally on the Dem's side who, frankly, should know better. It's almost as if they don't want the Dems to have an effective campaign tactic.
posted by Pedantzilla at 10:45 AM on August 7 [17 favorites]
posted by Pedantzilla at 10:45 AM on August 7 [17 favorites]
>“I hate it. Hate it. It’s so disrespectful.”
Surely not (gasp) DISRESPECT.
The idea that you should extend to people what you would like to receive from them--the idea, that is, of basic fairness and reciprocity--has of course never occurred to a guy who spent his entire life abusing power bought with money he didn't work for.
If the last major event of this guy's life is that he gets made fun of and sent packing by a black woman, to loud public laughter from all his enemies... it's still not justice, but I'd take it for starters.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:46 AM on August 7 [81 favorites]
Surely not (gasp) DISRESPECT.
The idea that you should extend to people what you would like to receive from them--the idea, that is, of basic fairness and reciprocity--has of course never occurred to a guy who spent his entire life abusing power bought with money he didn't work for.
If the last major event of this guy's life is that he gets made fun of and sent packing by a black woman, to loud public laughter from all his enemies... it's still not justice, but I'd take it for starters.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:46 AM on August 7 [81 favorites]
Somebody’s posting I read yesterday somewhere, pointed out that the Marmalade Monster never laughs. And I can’t really remember that weird person ever actually laughing. So, yes make that ludicrous loon upset by pointing and laughing. Nelson Muntz to the rescue!!
posted by njohnson23 at 10:47 AM on August 7 [13 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 10:47 AM on August 7 [13 favorites]
Could have done without the pointless snark about leftists and "normies"...
Really that's been de rigueur in any US political coverage for the last 40 yrs or so.
posted by Pedantzilla at 10:48 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]
Really that's been de rigueur in any US political coverage for the last 40 yrs or so.
posted by Pedantzilla at 10:48 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]
the unexpected hyper-effectiveness of calling them weird keeps making me think about how the producers / "springtime for hitler" is one of the few takedowns of nazis and affiliated fascists that they've never been able to reclaim for their own purposes.
that's it, that's the comment, it's not a lowercase bombastic pronouncement or anything
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 10:48 AM on August 7 [50 favorites]
that's it, that's the comment, it's not a lowercase bombastic pronouncement or anything
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 10:48 AM on August 7 [50 favorites]
I like that we basically got a Mr Creosote moment where Trump, so filled with hate, gets the wafer-thin criticism of being called 'weird' and explodes. Perfect. No notes.
posted by bookwo3107 at 10:49 AM on August 7 [32 favorites]
posted by bookwo3107 at 10:49 AM on August 7 [32 favorites]
Who knew it was so easy.
Why wasn't buzzfeed making titles about how we can defeat Trump with "This one 'weird' trick..."
posted by symbioid at 10:54 AM on August 7 [21 favorites]
Why wasn't buzzfeed making titles about how we can defeat Trump with "This one 'weird' trick..."
posted by symbioid at 10:54 AM on August 7 [21 favorites]
The police could not possibly turn violent against these smooching protesters. They would look brutal and, in some ways, silly. The public would surely sympathize with the kissing anti-authoritarians if force were deployed. [emphasis mine]
Uh, oh. There's that word again.
In Charlottesville, henchmen from white supremacist groups reveled in the violence, the police stood by and watched, and an anti-fascist protester, Heather Hyer, was murdered when one of the fascists drove his car into a crowd of counter protesters. It was, in short, an unmitigated disaster that was largely reported as a both-sides issue in mainstream media outlets because violence was met with violence. [emphasis also mine]
Was it really? Wasn't this one of the few times when the media (briefly) did their job and didn't present it as a both-sides issue, especially after Trump infamously remarked that there were good people on both sides and refused to condemn the killing of Hyer?
Calling Trump "weird" and laughing at him is proving to be an effective strategy, but this article is tripping over a pile of freshly ground axes trying to claim ownership of it as part of the One True Way To Resist Fascism.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:58 AM on August 7 [15 favorites]
Uh, oh. There's that word again.
In Charlottesville, henchmen from white supremacist groups reveled in the violence, the police stood by and watched, and an anti-fascist protester, Heather Hyer, was murdered when one of the fascists drove his car into a crowd of counter protesters. It was, in short, an unmitigated disaster that was largely reported as a both-sides issue in mainstream media outlets because violence was met with violence. [emphasis also mine]
Was it really? Wasn't this one of the few times when the media (briefly) did their job and didn't present it as a both-sides issue, especially after Trump infamously remarked that there were good people on both sides and refused to condemn the killing of Hyer?
Calling Trump "weird" and laughing at him is proving to be an effective strategy, but this article is tripping over a pile of freshly ground axes trying to claim ownership of it as part of the One True Way To Resist Fascism.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:58 AM on August 7 [15 favorites]
Look I'm all for Walz skewering trump and his ilk with a single ordinary word but let's please not make weird into a slur. Myself and most of my circle are 'weird' and we're all good, gentle people.
posted by sid at 10:59 AM on August 7 [26 favorites]
posted by sid at 10:59 AM on August 7 [26 favorites]
Since I know in the past it has been a hobby for some mefites to wring their hands and say we should be nicer even to our enemies, I'd like to share a personal anecdote.
Many years ago when I was a small child my dad had a coworker friend called John. John was fat. Great big fat guy, oh no, call the police. John was also super cool. He had a son several years older than me who was a big science nerd, and they had a really nice telescope, and they invited us out several times to stargaze. In my mind, John the telescope man was one of the best adults I knew.
Then one day my dad came home from work with a story. At lunch that day, in the break room, John was eating a sandwich (minding his own damn business) and another of their coworkers said "Jesus, John?? How much are you going to eat??" And without missing a beat, John replied, "I'm going to keep eating until my ass is as big as your mouth."
My dad shared the story because he thought the comeback was hilarious. My mom was scandalized. I recall it being a paradigm shift in how I viewed the world. For the first time in my life, it occurred to me that you don't have to be nice to people who are mean to you.
That realization has kept me safe from bullies ever since. It has been a joy to finally see John's strategy applied as an offensive tactic the last several weeks, and I can't wait to watch the impact.
posted by phunniemee at 10:59 AM on August 7 [200 favorites]
Many years ago when I was a small child my dad had a coworker friend called John. John was fat. Great big fat guy, oh no, call the police. John was also super cool. He had a son several years older than me who was a big science nerd, and they had a really nice telescope, and they invited us out several times to stargaze. In my mind, John the telescope man was one of the best adults I knew.
Then one day my dad came home from work with a story. At lunch that day, in the break room, John was eating a sandwich (minding his own damn business) and another of their coworkers said "Jesus, John?? How much are you going to eat??" And without missing a beat, John replied, "I'm going to keep eating until my ass is as big as your mouth."
My dad shared the story because he thought the comeback was hilarious. My mom was scandalized. I recall it being a paradigm shift in how I viewed the world. For the first time in my life, it occurred to me that you don't have to be nice to people who are mean to you.
That realization has kept me safe from bullies ever since. It has been a joy to finally see John's strategy applied as an offensive tactic the last several weeks, and I can't wait to watch the impact.
posted by phunniemee at 10:59 AM on August 7 [200 favorites]
People have been making fun of Trump all along; the difference is that now his opponents are doing it. Derision used to be reserved for everyone to the left of HRC. Amazing how effective it is when you turn it on your actual enemies!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:59 AM on August 7 [21 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:59 AM on August 7 [21 favorites]
You know what was fucking weird? Those crazy motherfuckers that Trumpo collected in DC on Jan 6, who proceeded to break into the capitol, assault people, and allegedly take a shit on the Speaker’s desk.
That was pretty fickibg weird!
posted by torokunai at 11:00 AM on August 7 [8 favorites]
That was pretty fickibg weird!
posted by torokunai at 11:00 AM on August 7 [8 favorites]
Sid - that’s weird [complimentary], we are talking about weird [derogatory] - there’s a whole world of difference.
posted by Artw at 11:01 AM on August 7 [19 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:01 AM on August 7 [19 favorites]
I do wish, though, that the liberal establishment would stop framing those of us on the left as “normal” as if this is about oppositionality in our epithets. Many of us are decidedly weird and cherish that fact.
The line works not because they’re weird and we’re normal. It works because abuse they HATE being called weird because it makes us laugh at them, and they hate nothing more than that (like any bully would).
So let’s keep using it because it takes away their power but let’s not define down our tent to exclude the strange and interesting.
posted by turbowombat at 11:01 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]
The line works not because they’re weird and we’re normal. It works because abuse they HATE being called weird because it makes us laugh at them, and they hate nothing more than that (like any bully would).
So let’s keep using it because it takes away their power but let’s not define down our tent to exclude the strange and interesting.
posted by turbowombat at 11:01 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]
On review, what Sid said (but less pithily than they did)
posted by turbowombat at 11:02 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]
posted by turbowombat at 11:02 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]
In his mind he is striking fear in the hearts of people. If we respond with laughter and pointing, then maybe that mind, smaller than his hands, will get a little less self-centered.
posted by njohnson23 at 11:04 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 11:04 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]
Caring about other people and not being a posturing joyless asshole at all times IS pretty normal, TBH.
I mean, look at this:
Watched a clip from the JD Vance appearance rn, & a reporter was like, "Let's try something different, what makes you smile, what makes you happy?" and instead of answering like 'idk my kids, being VP,' whatever, he's like "I laugh at bogus questions from the media" ?? That is a weird answer, man!
They are incapable of not being weird. They cannot relate to the joys and experiences of normal people in any way whatsoever because they only understand mean spirited freak shit and coded language. Use it to shiv them.
posted by Artw at 11:10 AM on August 7 [94 favorites]
I mean, look at this:
Watched a clip from the JD Vance appearance rn, & a reporter was like, "Let's try something different, what makes you smile, what makes you happy?" and instead of answering like 'idk my kids, being VP,' whatever, he's like "I laugh at bogus questions from the media" ?? That is a weird answer, man!
They are incapable of not being weird. They cannot relate to the joys and experiences of normal people in any way whatsoever because they only understand mean spirited freak shit and coded language. Use it to shiv them.
posted by Artw at 11:10 AM on August 7 [94 favorites]
“Do not think that one has to be sad in order to be a militant, even though the thing one is fighting is abominable.” - Foucault
posted by josephtate at 11:10 AM on August 7 [42 favorites]
posted by josephtate at 11:10 AM on August 7 [42 favorites]
Could have done without the pointless snark about leftists and "normies", seeing as how so many of the people who have been whining about "weird" are the same centrist assholes
Also calling guys like Vance weird accounted for probably 40 percent of Chaposphere/Twitter-left content over the years (for Vance, going back to when a lot of liberals probably still liked him).
It’s not wrong to say that this segment of the left is predisposed to believe that whatever the Democrats are doing, they are fucking up, but come on, “Marxists capable of not being extremely serious about things” was a whole thing for a while there.
posted by atoxyl at 11:12 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]
Also calling guys like Vance weird accounted for probably 40 percent of Chaposphere/Twitter-left content over the years (for Vance, going back to when a lot of liberals probably still liked him).
It’s not wrong to say that this segment of the left is predisposed to believe that whatever the Democrats are doing, they are fucking up, but come on, “Marxists capable of not being extremely serious about things” was a whole thing for a while there.
posted by atoxyl at 11:12 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]
The dig at the left is wildly misplaced. Everyone I know on the left has been pointing out how bizarre these freakish little fuck-ups truly are, and all the while the center/moderates have been scolding us for incivility.
Just like every generation of teenagers thinks they invented sex, it seems the centrists think they've just now invented the practice of insulting your enemies 🤷🏻♀️
posted by june_dodecahedron at 11:16 AM on August 7 [53 favorites]
Just like every generation of teenagers thinks they invented sex, it seems the centrists think they've just now invented the practice of insulting your enemies 🤷🏻♀️
posted by june_dodecahedron at 11:16 AM on August 7 [53 favorites]
Yeah, welcome to the antifa party, centrists. Glad you finally fucking showed up. You are now everything your stupid op-eds told you to fear and better for it.
posted by Artw at 11:18 AM on August 7 [58 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:18 AM on August 7 [58 favorites]
This is the only effective strategy they've come up with in my lifetime to deal with this distracting, manufactured culture war BS the american right has been stoking to distract from actual, more grounded issues.
All these years of treating the inane, hateful, meaningless gibberish they've been throwing at the wall as legitimate political discourse has been worse than ignoring it.
Even the most hardcore republicans know, on some level, that the world will keep spinning regardless and there's real work to be done, and the more they stonewall em and dismiss this stuff as distracting drivel, the harder that fact will be to ignore
posted by wafehling at 11:18 AM on August 7 [10 favorites]
All these years of treating the inane, hateful, meaningless gibberish they've been throwing at the wall as legitimate political discourse has been worse than ignoring it.
Even the most hardcore republicans know, on some level, that the world will keep spinning regardless and there's real work to be done, and the more they stonewall em and dismiss this stuff as distracting drivel, the harder that fact will be to ignore
posted by wafehling at 11:18 AM on August 7 [10 favorites]
It could be said public mockery helped create the orange fascist too, though.
posted by superelastic at 11:18 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]
posted by superelastic at 11:18 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]
Kirkaracha linked this Data for Progress poll in one of the Trump threads, and yes, yes, polls, but I think it's quite instructive about one of the reasons why weird is landing so well as an attack. A plurality of voters say that “creepy,” “weird,” “off-putting,” and “strange” better describe Republicans. Moreover, voters agree that Republicans are weirder today than they were 10 years ago: Dems by an +81 point margin, and Independents by a +38 margin. But among Republicans? Only 25% agree, and 66% disagree. That's the Republican problem in a nutshell. That's why they can't fight back against "weird". They don't think they're being weird creeps. Or at least, they won't admit to it, or they're in denial about it. Upon being called out as weird creeps, they can only immediately double down on being weird creeps, because there are basically no non-weird creep positions left.
Also, "weird" leaves the ball in listeners' court in terms of interpreting it: you can give one example [the thing you're saying "wow, weird" about], and many, many people will fill in the rest with literal years of seeing Republicans being weird creeps. It is also, on the face of it, bipartisan. It's not a political position or statement that provides much of an attack surface. (After all, you've already lost if you have to go "I'm not weird, I'm totally normal!!!" This is the distinction between weird [derogatory] and weird [complimentary or neutral]. Plenty of us identify with weird [complimentary or neutral] and won't reject the label, thereby making it non-derogatory to us.) Weird is just a simple descriptor, and it sticks.
I think it's going to continue to stick, because, quite frankly, there does not appear to be a single mainstream Republican who can be not-weird for long enough to refute it. Like, probably Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan could have withstood this attack with a media blitz about their totally normal lives and hobbies and families and shit, and appeals to "families like ours" etc. Trump and Vance and the current Republican freakshow cannot.
posted by yasaman at 11:19 AM on August 7 [20 favorites]
Also, "weird" leaves the ball in listeners' court in terms of interpreting it: you can give one example [the thing you're saying "wow, weird" about], and many, many people will fill in the rest with literal years of seeing Republicans being weird creeps. It is also, on the face of it, bipartisan. It's not a political position or statement that provides much of an attack surface. (After all, you've already lost if you have to go "I'm not weird, I'm totally normal!!!" This is the distinction between weird [derogatory] and weird [complimentary or neutral]. Plenty of us identify with weird [complimentary or neutral] and won't reject the label, thereby making it non-derogatory to us.) Weird is just a simple descriptor, and it sticks.
I think it's going to continue to stick, because, quite frankly, there does not appear to be a single mainstream Republican who can be not-weird for long enough to refute it. Like, probably Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan could have withstood this attack with a media blitz about their totally normal lives and hobbies and families and shit, and appeals to "families like ours" etc. Trump and Vance and the current Republican freakshow cannot.
posted by yasaman at 11:19 AM on August 7 [20 favorites]
We were laughing plenty 8 years ago when polls claimed that HRC was in the lead.
posted by brujita at 11:20 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]
posted by brujita at 11:20 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]
I never understood, the when they go low we go hifgh thing. I've always felt like it should be When they go low, we kick them in the teeth and shut them the fuck up.
Of course that might have something to do with being an old punk, or maybe it's being raised in Phila. Either way, I'm glad to see it's become a thing.
posted by evilDoug at 11:26 AM on August 7 [30 favorites]
Of course that might have something to do with being an old punk, or maybe it's being raised in Phila. Either way, I'm glad to see it's become a thing.
posted by evilDoug at 11:26 AM on August 7 [30 favorites]
I never understood, the when they go low we go high thing.
I suspect it's a safer way to be black in America. But I definitely agree when we find ourselves with enough power to kick, we should kick (the fucking door down, and anything else in the way).
posted by phunniemee at 11:29 AM on August 7 [14 favorites]
I suspect it's a safer way to be black in America. But I definitely agree when we find ourselves with enough power to kick, we should kick (the fucking door down, and anything else in the way).
posted by phunniemee at 11:29 AM on August 7 [14 favorites]
let's please not make weird into a slur.
As a fellow self-professed weirdo, I totally get this, but there was an interesting observation in the Walz longboat thread (forgive me for not digging it up) that "weird" means different things depending on your age. For people over 50 (like me), it means "outside the norm." For younger people, it means "creepy." I think Harris was the first one to use the word, but Walz definitely popularized it, possibly hitting on this double meaning by accident (though he was a schoolteacher, so maybe he was exposed to that other sense).
Much of the trumpy agenda is absolutely creepy. It is also outside the norm, in the sense that most people dislike it. "Weird" works, and it's working.
posted by adamrice at 11:35 AM on August 7 [10 favorites]
As a fellow self-professed weirdo, I totally get this, but there was an interesting observation in the Walz longboat thread (forgive me for not digging it up) that "weird" means different things depending on your age. For people over 50 (like me), it means "outside the norm." For younger people, it means "creepy." I think Harris was the first one to use the word, but Walz definitely popularized it, possibly hitting on this double meaning by accident (though he was a schoolteacher, so maybe he was exposed to that other sense).
Much of the trumpy agenda is absolutely creepy. It is also outside the norm, in the sense that most people dislike it. "Weird" works, and it's working.
posted by adamrice at 11:35 AM on August 7 [10 favorites]
I don’t really accept the assertion that Charlottesville was an unmitigated disaster. It was bad and a tragedy, but a bunch of fascists discovered that a) a lot of people did not agree with them and b) there were consequences for their actions. A lot of grassroots fascist groups collapsed in the realization that their putsch was not going to be easy, others found themselves forced into harder-to-minimize spaces. It didn’t have the same effect in national party politics, but it wasn’t worthless.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:35 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:35 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]
Who normalized Trump? Who called him presidential, who combed his word-salad into a more understandable talking points time and again? Who thought it was too rude, impolite, disrespectful and immature to call him names, to accurately call him fascist, racist, misogynistic and a liar?
And who still carries water for him pretending that his disavowals of p2025 mean anything. The corporate press and NPR, the DCCC and consultants who work both parties, the moderates and the centrists and the institutionalists.
so sure, mock him and call him wierd. but have more in your arsenal then just insults, because the fascistd are not interested in a war of ideas, they are salivating for a war to exterminate their "enemies" and they aren't going to let loosing a popularity contest stop them.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 11:37 AM on August 7 [21 favorites]
And who still carries water for him pretending that his disavowals of p2025 mean anything. The corporate press and NPR, the DCCC and consultants who work both parties, the moderates and the centrists and the institutionalists.
so sure, mock him and call him wierd. but have more in your arsenal then just insults, because the fascistd are not interested in a war of ideas, they are salivating for a war to exterminate their "enemies" and they aren't going to let loosing a popularity contest stop them.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 11:37 AM on August 7 [21 favorites]
We were laughing plenty 8 years ago when polls claimed that HRC was in the lead.
It's ok to enjoy this
posted by german_bight at 11:38 AM on August 7 [18 favorites]
It's ok to enjoy this
posted by german_bight at 11:38 AM on August 7 [18 favorites]
You know what was fucking weird? Those crazy motherfuckers that Trumpo collected in DC on Jan 6, who proceeded to break into the capitol, assault people, and allegedly take a shit on the Speaker’s desk.
I think one of the reasons "weird" works so well is that when you talk about the end of democracy, fascism, etc., it's hard for people to get their heads around that. I mean, everything seems...OK now, right? Right?
But "weird" is understandable. And in this case it's undeniable. These people have been violating norms for decades (social norms, political norms, act-like-a-human norms) with the aim of subverting democracy. "Weird" says that in a way that's much easier for people to absorb.
posted by PlusDistance at 11:39 AM on August 7 [12 favorites]
I think one of the reasons "weird" works so well is that when you talk about the end of democracy, fascism, etc., it's hard for people to get their heads around that. I mean, everything seems...OK now, right? Right?
But "weird" is understandable. And in this case it's undeniable. These people have been violating norms for decades (social norms, political norms, act-like-a-human norms) with the aim of subverting democracy. "Weird" says that in a way that's much easier for people to absorb.
posted by PlusDistance at 11:39 AM on August 7 [12 favorites]
I'm happy to give up being weird if it serves the greater good of all mankind. But I shall continue to be as strange as I need to be. Without unduly frightening the children, of course.
posted by philip-random at 11:39 AM on August 7 [12 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 11:39 AM on August 7 [12 favorites]
Calling Trump or MAGA folks weird isn't an insult, just an observation. Trump is weird! Deeply so! So is Al Yankovic. So am I and a bunch of my friends!
The *chefs kiss* part is that it bugs him (and his followers) so much. They're the ones that think 'weird' is a pejorative, when it's not. Turnabout is fair play.
posted by Admiral Viceroy at 11:41 AM on August 7 [33 favorites]
The *chefs kiss* part is that it bugs him (and his followers) so much. They're the ones that think 'weird' is a pejorative, when it's not. Turnabout is fair play.
posted by Admiral Viceroy at 11:41 AM on August 7 [33 favorites]
Bullies need legitimacy and fear to operate, and laughter denies them both these things.
(And it's how this particular weirdo managed to survive school until the calmer waters of uni where I found other members of my tribes.)
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:42 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]
(And it's how this particular weirdo managed to survive school until the calmer waters of uni where I found other members of my tribes.)
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:42 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]
It’s not just any insult. It’s the specific kind of insult. Like having to hit the Big Boss right in the eye with an arrow, it has to actually hit the right spot to take them down. And it’s #notallnarcissists so you have to find the unique code for each enemy.
As my example I had a friend who I later realized was a Narcissist but she was by all accounts benign - fun to go to the bar with, baked you banana bread on your birthday, listen to your problems and encouraged you etc. In retrospect the only tell was that I felt like I had to constantly position myself as #2. She was of course very pretty and well put together, but I could only shine as a part of or result of her. Of the two of us, never was I actually the top dog and I mean that in a very butt-sniffy, “energetic feeling” kind of a way. Also I sensed she needed a lot of “space” I guess that was my subconscious knowing she couldn’t handle any genuine pushback. (Some pushback - especially if it gave her the feeling of “look how open and aware I am and evolving as a person” kickback was of course very welcome).
That is all in retrospect - it wasn’t this conscious at the time.
Anyways what killed the friendship was benign. One day we were talking and she was getting in on me about something and I said “wait a minute, two days ago you encouraged me to express myself as needed and not self monitor so much; you wanted to be a safe space for me. Now you’re hammering in on my word choice without listening to me, that doesn’t fit.”
That was it, that was all. She got stunned, quiet, said she had to go.
Two weeks later she called me icy cold saying the comment made her very angry.
And I didn’t move my position. Her previous point was incongruent to me.
That was it, she dropped me like a bad habit and we never spoke again and I was sad and surprised at how sudden.
But I mean who would have known that small comment and pointing out the incongruency was “it” - that was the arrow in the eye.
You have to find the specific belief their sense of narcissistic supply is based off and puncture it with precise in the moment evidence.
Anyways good on them for finding the anti-spell or whatever you’d call it. You aren’t the cool kids, you aren’t the misunderstood “emperor has no clothes” people you think you are.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:42 AM on August 7 [31 favorites]
As my example I had a friend who I later realized was a Narcissist but she was by all accounts benign - fun to go to the bar with, baked you banana bread on your birthday, listen to your problems and encouraged you etc. In retrospect the only tell was that I felt like I had to constantly position myself as #2. She was of course very pretty and well put together, but I could only shine as a part of or result of her. Of the two of us, never was I actually the top dog and I mean that in a very butt-sniffy, “energetic feeling” kind of a way. Also I sensed she needed a lot of “space” I guess that was my subconscious knowing she couldn’t handle any genuine pushback. (Some pushback - especially if it gave her the feeling of “look how open and aware I am and evolving as a person” kickback was of course very welcome).
That is all in retrospect - it wasn’t this conscious at the time.
Anyways what killed the friendship was benign. One day we were talking and she was getting in on me about something and I said “wait a minute, two days ago you encouraged me to express myself as needed and not self monitor so much; you wanted to be a safe space for me. Now you’re hammering in on my word choice without listening to me, that doesn’t fit.”
That was it, that was all. She got stunned, quiet, said she had to go.
Two weeks later she called me icy cold saying the comment made her very angry.
And I didn’t move my position. Her previous point was incongruent to me.
That was it, she dropped me like a bad habit and we never spoke again and I was sad and surprised at how sudden.
But I mean who would have known that small comment and pointing out the incongruency was “it” - that was the arrow in the eye.
You have to find the specific belief their sense of narcissistic supply is based off and puncture it with precise in the moment evidence.
Anyways good on them for finding the anti-spell or whatever you’d call it. You aren’t the cool kids, you aren’t the misunderstood “emperor has no clothes” people you think you are.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:42 AM on August 7 [31 favorites]
There’s also the stickiness of “couchfucker” as an epithet for Vance. The assertion is almost certainly not true, but people look at Vance or listen to him, and think “that’s a guy who would fuck a couch,” and he’s struggling to shake it because it’s the highest profile thing about him. With luck it will spread, not to the 25-30% diehard loyalists, but the people who are maybe ok with supporting some light fascism if it’s not too inconvenient or unpleasant, but aren’t on board with weird people saying weird things in an undeniably weird manner.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:43 AM on August 7 [19 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:43 AM on August 7 [19 favorites]
We were laughing plenty 8 years ago when polls claimed that HRC was in the lead.
Maybe, but the term "deplorable" was treated as a badge of honor by right-wing extremists because it came from elites, while "weird" puts you outside of the radius of American normality and is applied by the same people who live and work next to you — by even your own family members, perhaps. It's the crucial difference between wealthy, reality-disconnected liberals punching down, and everyday people laughing up at ridiculous and dangerous bullies.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:44 AM on August 7 [30 favorites]
Maybe, but the term "deplorable" was treated as a badge of honor by right-wing extremists because it came from elites, while "weird" puts you outside of the radius of American normality and is applied by the same people who live and work next to you — by even your own family members, perhaps. It's the crucial difference between wealthy, reality-disconnected liberals punching down, and everyday people laughing up at ridiculous and dangerous bullies.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:44 AM on August 7 [30 favorites]
There’s also the stickiness of “couchfucker” as an epithet for Vance.
Ew.
posted by Melismata at 11:45 AM on August 7 [15 favorites]
Ew.
posted by Melismata at 11:45 AM on August 7 [15 favorites]
“I hate when people laugh at me,” he said somberly at a rally in Grand Rapids, Michigan. “I hate it. Hate it. It’s so disrespectful.”
Mebbe shoulda thought of that before settling on that absurd combover.
posted by flabdablet at 11:46 AM on August 7 [13 favorites]
Mebbe shoulda thought of that before settling on that absurd combover.
posted by flabdablet at 11:46 AM on August 7 [13 favorites]
the stickiness of “couchfucker”
a little scotchgard will sort that out
posted by flabdablet at 11:47 AM on August 7 [20 favorites]
a little scotchgard will sort that out
posted by flabdablet at 11:47 AM on August 7 [20 favorites]
Maybe, but the term "deplorable" was treated as a badge of honor by right-wing extremists because it came from elites, while "weird" puts you outside of the radius of American normality
Exactly. When your entire brand is xenophobia/hate them because they're not like us, you can't reclaim weird.
posted by phunniemee at 11:48 AM on August 7 [9 favorites]
Exactly. When your entire brand is xenophobia/hate them because they're not like us, you can't reclaim weird.
posted by phunniemee at 11:48 AM on August 7 [9 favorites]
you can't reclaim weird
Trump: "Hold my bleach."
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:50 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]
Trump: "Hold my bleach."
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:50 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]
One of the most effective forms of antifascist "laughtivism" I have ever seen was when just one guy managed to make a march with dozens of neo-Nazis sound totally ridiculous by marching along side them with a sousaphone & repeating a silly two-note riff "womp pomp" that made them sound like they were in a cartoon.
posted by jonp72 at 11:51 AM on August 7 [46 favorites]
posted by jonp72 at 11:51 AM on August 7 [46 favorites]
Do you think Vance now has someone on his campaign staff who personally vets all on-stage furniture Vance is going to sit on for any casually misplaced latex gloves?
Because howdisastrous hilarious would it be if Vance were to accidentally pick up a glove that had been carelessly left by the cleaning staff or a particularly mischievous member of the facilities crew?
Like, if he goes up on stage and spots a stray glove laying across the seat cushion, he has no other choice but to sit on it.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:55 AM on August 7 [3 favorites]
Because how
Like, if he goes up on stage and spots a stray glove laying across the seat cushion, he has no other choice but to sit on it.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:55 AM on August 7 [3 favorites]
Whatever happens in November, it has been so cathartic to finally be able and be allowed to laugh at these Fascists. Once you peel back the layers, they really have nothing going on in their shabby lives but delivering abject, murderous cruelty onto those around them. It feels right to finally be able to call them what they are and not let myself give into being scolded for it.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:59 AM on August 7 [8 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:59 AM on August 7 [8 favorites]
To think of all that could have been avoided and how another timeline might have played out if HRC had just used one word in debate in 2016.
No, I don’t believe it for one minute. There is no durability to the epithet and we will be back to the usual media cycle in no time. The October surprise will be that Harris wore tan shoes at a fundraiser in 2010 and the weirdness of the GOP will be completely forgotten.
posted by simra at 12:05 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
No, I don’t believe it for one minute. There is no durability to the epithet and we will be back to the usual media cycle in no time. The October surprise will be that Harris wore tan shoes at a fundraiser in 2010 and the weirdness of the GOP will be completely forgotten.
posted by simra at 12:05 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
For most my adult life, Democrats wanted to be taken seriously, the wonky, responsible grown up, running against increasingly clownish and extreme Republicans, but were unequipped or unwilling to roll with the punches and read the atmosphere. As a result, they always ended up, as I argued in another thread, playing the Margaret Dumont to a Republican Groucho. This was the biggest strength a younger Joe Biden had, and the diminishing of that strength his biggest flaw now. He, and the party, had some serious policy chops, but he knew plain reason and geniality is going to inspire voters. It makes me happy that the top talent in the party know this, and are willing and able to pivot as necessary to diminish the clownish and abhorrent.
posted by 2N2222 at 12:07 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
posted by 2N2222 at 12:07 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
I put this moment into limerick form the other day, inspired partly by the article linked in the main post, partly by Trump's "I hate it" soundbite:
The fascist enjoys being feared,
But amusement undoes him. Revered
By his serious fans,
He resents others' pans—
It's the laughter he hates the most. Weird.
posted by rory at 12:08 PM on August 7 [23 favorites]
The fascist enjoys being feared,
But amusement undoes him. Revered
By his serious fans,
He resents others' pans—
It's the laughter he hates the most. Weird.
posted by rory at 12:08 PM on August 7 [23 favorites]
Coincidentally, I was about to post this: NYT The ‘Weird’ History of Tim Walz’s Political Put-Down: Once, the word signified supernatural things. In the mouth of Kamala Harris’s running mate, weirdness is much more earthbound. (gift link)
It is not so much in the eye of the beholder as the believer, and there are good weirds and bad. Are you fonder of the glamorous weird of Björk or Lady Gaga (who performed at President Biden’s inauguration, for crying out loud), or the peculiar weird of Pee-wee Herman or Napoleon Dynamite? Are you, my dear weirdo, more like the bowling-alley oddballs of “The Big Lebowski” or the banana-nosed, chicken-besotted Muppet named Gonzo? Weirdness, as a cultural marker, is a designation of irregularity that is increasingly self-declared and celebrated. To turn it back to an accusation, as Mr. Walz has done, is wondrous strange.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:10 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
It is not so much in the eye of the beholder as the believer, and there are good weirds and bad. Are you fonder of the glamorous weird of Björk or Lady Gaga (who performed at President Biden’s inauguration, for crying out loud), or the peculiar weird of Pee-wee Herman or Napoleon Dynamite? Are you, my dear weirdo, more like the bowling-alley oddballs of “The Big Lebowski” or the banana-nosed, chicken-besotted Muppet named Gonzo? Weirdness, as a cultural marker, is a designation of irregularity that is increasingly self-declared and celebrated. To turn it back to an accusation, as Mr. Walz has done, is wondrous strange.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:10 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
It's not a singular word with magical powers. It's the political moment, it's the momentum, it's the way everyone is super exhausted of Trump and his tired, repetitive, endless campaign, it's the sparkle and wit of Harris and Walz. In a word... it's the vibes.
posted by overglow at 12:14 PM on August 7 [32 favorites]
posted by overglow at 12:14 PM on August 7 [32 favorites]
I misread that as "Weird Al, The Breaking of The Fascist Fever", and thought… "Did Weird Al just release an antifascist polka?". Now I need an antifascist polka.
posted by Omon Ra at 12:18 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]
posted by Omon Ra at 12:18 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]
Basket of Deplorable Weirdos does scan better tho
posted by torokunai at 12:18 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
posted by torokunai at 12:18 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
Beware the hubris. I see a bunch of these articles with libs patting themselves on the back for discovering this one "weird" trick, but not a lot of evidence it's making any difference except possibly annoying Trump.
The insight that underpins "weird" is absolutely true---that MAGA Republicans are unserious people and we should stop treating them as if they were serious. When Trump wants to nuke a hurricane, we don't need CNN interviewing a panel of meteorologists to discuss the merits of this batshit idea. So if the media could pivot to this stance, well, that would be tremendously helpful, but I don't see it happening yet.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:19 PM on August 7 [13 favorites]
The insight that underpins "weird" is absolutely true---that MAGA Republicans are unserious people and we should stop treating them as if they were serious. When Trump wants to nuke a hurricane, we don't need CNN interviewing a panel of meteorologists to discuss the merits of this batshit idea. So if the media could pivot to this stance, well, that would be tremendously helpful, but I don't see it happening yet.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:19 PM on August 7 [13 favorites]
As a self-described weird person, I don't understand the hand wringing about weird being an insult. Like the article states: "There are, of course, different kinds of weird. There’s good weird and bad weird, or creepy-weird and interesting-weird. Plenty of regular folks and artists are a very good kind of weird. They reject conformity in ways that make us question cultural norms and force us to face the inherent randomness of existence. ...Vance and Trump and their foot soldiers are most definitely creepy-weird."
posted by rosiroo at 12:20 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]
posted by rosiroo at 12:20 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]
As a lifelong self-professed weirdo, I am personally more than happy to sacrifice this label if it is required for a cultural exorcism.
My flavor of weirdo is "unusual passions or opinions" (that might not hold up to scrutiny, but seems right in the moment).
Hm. wingnut? oddball? maybe just go with the old standby: strange.
We'll see what sticks!
posted by pol at 12:20 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
My flavor of weirdo is "unusual passions or opinions" (that might not hold up to scrutiny, but seems right in the moment).
Hm. wingnut? oddball? maybe just go with the old standby: strange.
We'll see what sticks!
posted by pol at 12:20 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
Whether or not "weird" becomes tired before the election, I think keeping the attitude up is the right one. They're trying to paint Walz as a deserter after 24 years in the National Guard. They paint some bizarre picture of him in a gimp suit in response to him saying he believes in the dignity of LGBTQ+ students. Don't get mired in this "what I mean is..." trying to win over these angry teakettles. You say "I said (clear, simple comment), you said (CUCKOO CUCKOO)?," give them a "sure, Jan" look, and be done.
posted by queensissy at 12:21 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
posted by queensissy at 12:21 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
Seth Meyers has been calling out the MAGA crowd as weird for years. Constantly hearing Walz credited with it is a bit like Al Gore inventing the Internet.
posted by flabdablet at 12:21 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 12:21 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
So if the media could pivot to this stance, well, that would be tremendously helpful, but I don't see it happening yet.
Part of why the “basket of deplorables” thing didn’t work was that it was weaker than it should have been, sure, but also the media chose to treat it as goofy or alarmist. So yes, it’s not just the Dems that need to internalize this.
posted by Artw at 12:23 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
Part of why the “basket of deplorables” thing didn’t work was that it was weaker than it should have been, sure, but also the media chose to treat it as goofy or alarmist. So yes, it’s not just the Dems that need to internalize this.
posted by Artw at 12:23 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
Look I'm all for Walz skewering trump and his ilk with a single ordinary word but let's please not make weird into a slur. Myself and most of my circle are 'weird' and we're all good, gentle people.
My daughters (16 going on 36 and 14 going... somewhere) immediately understood that "weird" means "creepy", not "kooky". Their whole circle of friends agreed. From talking to them all at the back to school get-together, it's pretty clear that as someone else upthread pointed out, the meaning of the word has shifted away from kooky and toward creepy for their generation.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 12:25 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
My daughters (16 going on 36 and 14 going... somewhere) immediately understood that "weird" means "creepy", not "kooky". Their whole circle of friends agreed. From talking to them all at the back to school get-together, it's pretty clear that as someone else upthread pointed out, the meaning of the word has shifted away from kooky and toward creepy for their generation.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 12:25 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
i don't think there was ever a lack of open mocking of trump and his ilk - like alec baldwin probably has a standing invite to reprise his role on snl. people take great delight in finding the perrrfect names to call him, flying fat baby trump balloons, highlighting the absurdity of the cognitive tests he's aced. that has done fuck all to remedy the situation.
i'd guess the 'weird' thing works because it connects the actual fucked-up policies with the actual experience one would have living under those policies, which would be, well, weird. if someone erects a statue of naked trump with saggy man-tits, well, that's just those loooony leftists ain't it what will they do next huh? but if you talk about forced births and father's rights and how all that means your daughter's rapist is now a fixture at family reunions, that throws the weirdness into sharp fucking relief.
trump isn't weird because he has a combover, small fingers, and his family's surname was drumpf before they immigrated. he's weird because he really wants the government to get in your personal business and mess around.
posted by logicpunk at 12:29 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]
i'd guess the 'weird' thing works because it connects the actual fucked-up policies with the actual experience one would have living under those policies, which would be, well, weird. if someone erects a statue of naked trump with saggy man-tits, well, that's just those loooony leftists ain't it what will they do next huh? but if you talk about forced births and father's rights and how all that means your daughter's rapist is now a fixture at family reunions, that throws the weirdness into sharp fucking relief.
trump isn't weird because he has a combover, small fingers, and his family's surname was drumpf before they immigrated. he's weird because he really wants the government to get in your personal business and mess around.
posted by logicpunk at 12:29 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]
This all feels a bit too much like counting your money before the game is over for my liking. It's cool that Right is mad at being called "weird," but this is, like, battle number one in our favor out of a hundred, with a hundred more to go.
posted by UltraMorgnus at 12:29 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
posted by UltraMorgnus at 12:29 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
Nothing makes us weirder (complimentary but also a bit exasperating) than how much bean-plating we do over a very mild comment that the Republicans really hate.
"Weird" used to be what Republicans called liberals, along with "hippy" "granola" "tree-hugger" and "communist." And they presented themselves as normal, fiscally responsible, adults-who-deal-with-hard-truths.
The only reason this works now is because they stopped even pretending to be those things, though old talking points will occasionally surface. Bringing in the full-on fash/crazy/religous zealots killed off that approach and if you couldn't adapt, you left.
Plus in the meantime, crazy hippy ideas like caring about the planet and LGBTQ equality have become the norm.
posted by emjaybee at 12:34 PM on August 7 [21 favorites]
"Weird" used to be what Republicans called liberals, along with "hippy" "granola" "tree-hugger" and "communist." And they presented themselves as normal, fiscally responsible, adults-who-deal-with-hard-truths.
The only reason this works now is because they stopped even pretending to be those things, though old talking points will occasionally surface. Bringing in the full-on fash/crazy/religous zealots killed off that approach and if you couldn't adapt, you left.
Plus in the meantime, crazy hippy ideas like caring about the planet and LGBTQ equality have become the norm.
posted by emjaybee at 12:34 PM on August 7 [21 favorites]
I’m totally on board with the project as a whole, in no way an “enlightened centrist,” and if it’s a little “juvenile” I could not care less, but just flatly inserting the word “weird” in every possible sentence is quickly approaching the same sort of eye-rolling semantic satiation as “Let’s Go Brandon.” Remember how irritating it is when right-wingers are really convinced they’re making us cry but it turns out they’re just annoying and sad?
By all means, point out what bizarre, obsessive freaks our aspiring fascists are. They’re paranoid. They’re creepy. They invent ludicrous threats and collectively pretend they make sense. They think way too much about what’s going on in other people’s pants, bedrooms and lives. The performative “Trumpier-than-thou” thing has served the same function on the right as RFK Jr’s famous worm, and it’s about damned time we pointed that out. They have no standing to claim to be the “normal Americans” (whatever that even means). Yes, they are malevolent, but they are also beyond ridiculous.
I recall during the 2020 campaign, I was leaving Target, and waiting to turn out of the parking lot behind a moron with a bumper sticker that said “STOP COMMUNIST BIDEN!” I don’t know what it was in that moment, but I just cracked up. The gratuitous epithet, reflexively leveled at Joe Fucking Biden of all people, was just so rote and brainless that it was hilarious. Poor precious baby heard me and shot a middle finger out his window, which just made the whole thing funnier. Seeing as it was Colorado I’m probably lucky I didn’t get myself shot, but laughing at them works.
I’m not saying stop calling them weird. They are incredibly fucking weird. I’m just saying, grab a thesaurus for God’s sake. Use a little creativity. If we don’t keep it fresh it will lose potency through repetition. They’ve got to feel it every goddamned time. Every time they act out, hold up a mirror to them. Look at them like they just pissed their pants on purpose. Everyone around them, all the time, needs to be feeding them “what are you fucking doing, man?”
posted by gelfin at 12:35 PM on August 7 [25 favorites]
By all means, point out what bizarre, obsessive freaks our aspiring fascists are. They’re paranoid. They’re creepy. They invent ludicrous threats and collectively pretend they make sense. They think way too much about what’s going on in other people’s pants, bedrooms and lives. The performative “Trumpier-than-thou” thing has served the same function on the right as RFK Jr’s famous worm, and it’s about damned time we pointed that out. They have no standing to claim to be the “normal Americans” (whatever that even means). Yes, they are malevolent, but they are also beyond ridiculous.
I recall during the 2020 campaign, I was leaving Target, and waiting to turn out of the parking lot behind a moron with a bumper sticker that said “STOP COMMUNIST BIDEN!” I don’t know what it was in that moment, but I just cracked up. The gratuitous epithet, reflexively leveled at Joe Fucking Biden of all people, was just so rote and brainless that it was hilarious. Poor precious baby heard me and shot a middle finger out his window, which just made the whole thing funnier. Seeing as it was Colorado I’m probably lucky I didn’t get myself shot, but laughing at them works.
I’m not saying stop calling them weird. They are incredibly fucking weird. I’m just saying, grab a thesaurus for God’s sake. Use a little creativity. If we don’t keep it fresh it will lose potency through repetition. They’ve got to feel it every goddamned time. Every time they act out, hold up a mirror to them. Look at them like they just pissed their pants on purpose. Everyone around them, all the time, needs to be feeding them “what are you fucking doing, man?”
posted by gelfin at 12:35 PM on August 7 [25 favorites]
Look I'm all for Walz skewering trump and his ilk with a single ordinary word but let's please not make weird into a slur.
TFA addresses the fact that there are two kinds of weird, and only one of them is being discussed at this time.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:38 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
TFA addresses the fact that there are two kinds of weird, and only one of them is being discussed at this time.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:38 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
I’m not saying stop calling them weird. They are incredibly fucking weird. I’m just saying, grab a thesaurus for God’s sake. Use a little creativity. If we don’t keep it fresh it will lose potency through repetition. They’ve got to feel it every goddamned time. Every time they act out, hold up a mirror to them. Look at them like they just pissed their pants on purpose. Everyone around them, all the time, needs to be feeding them “what are you fucking doing, man?”
posted by gelfin at 3:35 PM on August 7 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [⚑]
This, 1000%. Otherwise "weird" will loose it's power. Remember, it's not the ONLY recent mockery that has tripped them up. Much like Dick van Dyke.
posted by UltraMorgnus at 12:39 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
posted by gelfin at 3:35 PM on August 7 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [⚑]
This, 1000%. Otherwise "weird" will loose it's power. Remember, it's not the ONLY recent mockery that has tripped them up. Much like Dick van Dyke.
posted by UltraMorgnus at 12:39 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
"womp pomp" for folks who can't/don't want to watch it on Twitter
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:40 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:40 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]
Water Weird.
'Armor Class 13
Hit Points 58 (9d10 + 9)
Speed 0 ft., swim 60 ft.
Damage Resistances fire; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks
Damage Immunities poison
Condition Immunities exhaustion, grappled, paralyzed, poisoned, restrained, prone, unconscious
Senses blindsight 30 ft., passive Perception 10
Languages understands Aquan but doesn't speak.'
posted by clavdivs at 12:54 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
'Armor Class 13
Hit Points 58 (9d10 + 9)
Speed 0 ft., swim 60 ft.
Damage Resistances fire; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks
Damage Immunities poison
Condition Immunities exhaustion, grappled, paralyzed, poisoned, restrained, prone, unconscious
Senses blindsight 30 ft., passive Perception 10
Languages understands Aquan but doesn't speak.'
posted by clavdivs at 12:54 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
I've been weird and uncool my whole life. It takes some time and self-awareness to wear it as a badge of honor. That is an internal weirdness, and it is to be valued. The external weirdness they're criticizing is the kind that makes other people feel bad. Being exclusionary instead of welcoming; being smug instead of proud; lording things over others instead of sharing.
posted by soelo at 12:55 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
posted by soelo at 12:55 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
let's please not make weird into a slur
We're not. What's going on is people are realizing what my date explained to me on the way to a screening of "The Seventh Seal", fifty years ago: "There's good weird and bad weird." A light went on in my head and I worried less about a lot of stuff I'd been struggling with, up to that point in my life.
that's weird [complimentary], we are talking about weird [derogatory] - there’s a whole world of difference.
Exactly.
posted by Rash at 1:01 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
We're not. What's going on is people are realizing what my date explained to me on the way to a screening of "The Seventh Seal", fifty years ago: "There's good weird and bad weird." A light went on in my head and I worried less about a lot of stuff I'd been struggling with, up to that point in my life.
that's weird [complimentary], we are talking about weird [derogatory] - there’s a whole world of difference.
Exactly.
posted by Rash at 1:01 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
It's so goddamn nice to feel like it's okay to point and laugh at these busybodies who want to impose their medieval religious restrictions upon the entire country and follow a jibbering lunatic whose qualification for president are decades of experience in making terrible investments and propping up his overinflated ego. Jonald Chump* started this shit with his constant stream of gradeschool insults and ever since Hillary's "basket of deplorables" backfired there has been absolutely no pushback from the top Dems, it's just been "I am rubber and you are glue" for the past eight years and that has gotten old.
I am a total weirdo, I come from New Orleans and draw furry porn for money, I am perfectly fine with calling these freaks "weird". They constantly insist that they are the Real Americans and calling them "weird" really gets to them and that's great; if they turn it around like "deplorables" then it's time for a new way to say "god look at these freaks who're obsessed with what everyone does in their bedrooms".
* A couple weeks ago I told my computer to replace "Trump" with "Jonald Chump" and it has been making me giggle every time. It is juvenile as fuck and it gets so many downvotes from right-wingers and I do not fucking care any more.
posted by egypturnash at 1:07 PM on August 7 [20 favorites]
I am a total weirdo, I come from New Orleans and draw furry porn for money, I am perfectly fine with calling these freaks "weird". They constantly insist that they are the Real Americans and calling them "weird" really gets to them and that's great; if they turn it around like "deplorables" then it's time for a new way to say "god look at these freaks who're obsessed with what everyone does in their bedrooms".
* A couple weeks ago I told my computer to replace "Trump" with "Jonald Chump" and it has been making me giggle every time. It is juvenile as fuck and it gets so many downvotes from right-wingers and I do not fucking care any more.
posted by egypturnash at 1:07 PM on August 7 [20 favorites]
Here I thought we'd pretty well defined the various flavors of privilege. But now fascists are being tripped up and maybe even stopped by the use of the word "weird" and there are folks whose first thought is "But that's how I like to describe myself for wearing mismatched socks!" or whatever and I'm like, yeah, wow, there's a fresh one.
Just fucking move on to being "eccentric" and let us stop Armageddon. Chrissakes.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:08 PM on August 7 [41 favorites]
Just fucking move on to being "eccentric" and let us stop Armageddon. Chrissakes.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:08 PM on August 7 [41 favorites]
If you're weird because you wear weird clothes or like weird music or have weird hobbies, that's normal weird.
If you rant about tampons as if they're some kind of sex thing instead of basic hygiene like toilet paper, you're creepy weird. If you spend all your time circling passages in books to get them banned from libraries, you're creepy weird. If you rant about feeding lunch to school kids being communism, that's creepy weird. If a court of law determined you raped someone, that's creepy disgusting weird. If you seriously suggest using nukes to disperse hurricanes, that's dangerously stupid weird.
posted by straight at 1:09 PM on August 7 [33 favorites]
If you rant about tampons as if they're some kind of sex thing instead of basic hygiene like toilet paper, you're creepy weird. If you spend all your time circling passages in books to get them banned from libraries, you're creepy weird. If you rant about feeding lunch to school kids being communism, that's creepy weird. If a court of law determined you raped someone, that's creepy disgusting weird. If you seriously suggest using nukes to disperse hurricanes, that's dangerously stupid weird.
posted by straight at 1:09 PM on August 7 [33 favorites]
You need the ick to stick.
For that to happen the ick-ee needs to also feel the ick/cringe. So it has to hit close to home (shame).
This gets them on their back foot and no one likes a defensive loser.
Boom spell broken.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:13 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
For that to happen the ick-ee needs to also feel the ick/cringe. So it has to hit close to home (shame).
This gets them on their back foot and no one likes a defensive loser.
Boom spell broken.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:13 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
> When Trump wants to nuke a hurricane, we don't need CNN interviewing a panel of meteorologists to discuss the merits of this batshit idea.
I kind of low-key believe one of the reasons Project 2025 wants to disband NOAA is the sheer embarrassment over the fact that this has been in their hurricane FAQ for several decades.
I mean that and they want to privatize the weather data feed and don't care how many people will die as a result. Weird.
posted by atbash at 1:29 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]
I kind of low-key believe one of the reasons Project 2025 wants to disband NOAA is the sheer embarrassment over the fact that this has been in their hurricane FAQ for several decades.
I mean that and they want to privatize the weather data feed and don't care how many people will die as a result. Weird.
posted by atbash at 1:29 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]
Because of Othering, all weird is bad weird. It just says more about the caller. Don't label people weird/strange, under a normal societal context; this is what decent people learn in school. Except, the very condition of fascism is the degradation of norm and fairness--which is the justification for why it is necessary to use the framing of Othering insults against those who have constantly used it to socially marginalize us. That's why this is happening and why it works, to psychologically tilt those accustomed to owning linguistic power and now being on the receiving end of the stick.
posted by polymodus at 1:31 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
posted by polymodus at 1:31 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
I’m not saying stop calling them weird. They are incredibly fucking weird. I’m just saying, grab a thesaurus for God’s sake. Use a little creativity. If we don’t keep it fresh it will lose potency through repetition. They’ve got to feel it every goddamned time. Every time they act out, hold up a mirror to them. Look at them like they just pissed their pants on purpose. Everyone around them, all the time, needs to be feeding them “what are you fucking doing, man?”
It's obviously not a synonym, but I've found words like "goober" pretty effective. It's calling them idiotic in a really infantilizing way, which really gets under their skins. It deflates their delusional "macho" shit.
posted by brundlefly at 1:37 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
It's obviously not a synonym, but I've found words like "goober" pretty effective. It's calling them idiotic in a really infantilizing way, which really gets under their skins. It deflates their delusional "macho" shit.
posted by brundlefly at 1:37 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
The assertion is almost certainly not true, but people look at Vance or listen
Hey now, “almost certainly” is a lot more confidence than I feel comfortable putting there. His camp hasn’t even denied that he’s fucked a couch! We have no reason to believe he hasn’t!
posted by corb at 1:45 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
Hey now, “almost certainly” is a lot more confidence than I feel comfortable putting there. His camp hasn’t even denied that he’s fucked a couch! We have no reason to believe he hasn’t!
posted by corb at 1:45 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
I always liked "offputting" because it is a precise description of their effect on most people. But it's not a word a lot of people use that often.
posted by emjaybee at 1:48 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 1:48 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
The keystone of reactionary belief is the religious certainty that they are normal, that their bigotries are both natural and universal, that their policies are common sense, and that everyone else knows it. Being labeled weird is a direct attack on the most important, load bearing part of their self conception.
And no matter how delusional they are, they can in fact hear themselves when they start pushing back by talking about haplotypes and skull shapes and crime stats and secret cabals and flat earth and being chosen by God. But rather than reflect, they respond by going deeper and deeper into fringe theories and fantasies until they're shooting up pizza places and shitting on Nancy Pelosi's desk.
They've never had to reckon with how weird they are because their weirdness served the interests of the grifters that lead them, but the grifters are being replaced by the rubes as people with a capacity for shame are pushed out of the movement and it's finally starting to shake itself apart.
posted by Reyturner at 1:50 PM on August 7 [14 favorites]
And no matter how delusional they are, they can in fact hear themselves when they start pushing back by talking about haplotypes and skull shapes and crime stats and secret cabals and flat earth and being chosen by God. But rather than reflect, they respond by going deeper and deeper into fringe theories and fantasies until they're shooting up pizza places and shitting on Nancy Pelosi's desk.
They've never had to reckon with how weird they are because their weirdness served the interests of the grifters that lead them, but the grifters are being replaced by the rubes as people with a capacity for shame are pushed out of the movement and it's finally starting to shake itself apart.
posted by Reyturner at 1:50 PM on August 7 [14 favorites]
Once upon a time...
Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic.
posted by chavenet at 1:51 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic.
posted by chavenet at 1:51 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
How does one face-savingly deny fucking a couch? Or loveseat? Or Chesterfield? No, sir, I did not have relations with the furniture.
posted by njohnson23 at 1:51 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 1:51 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
But now fascists are being tripped up and maybe even stopped by the use of the word "weird" and there are folks whose first thought is "But that's how I like to describe myself for wearing mismatched socks!"
As someone else said, I'm happy to sacrifice the word "weird" if it WORKS to get rid of these people. It's like we finally found something that DOES work since "deplorable" somehow did not. If weird hits their uncomfortable feefee spots, then we gotta roll with it and roll with it hard, especially since "going high" did nothing.
My whole life, weird has not been used as a complimentary term towards me. My old job used to call me "eccentric," which I dunno if that's any better if "millionaire" isn't after it. My therapist is all "you aren't weird, why do you say that," and presumably she has a different definition in the more negative connotation?
I'm happy to clarify with "weird in the bad/creepy/thinks Lecter is real" verbiage if need be, though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:10 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
As someone else said, I'm happy to sacrifice the word "weird" if it WORKS to get rid of these people. It's like we finally found something that DOES work since "deplorable" somehow did not. If weird hits their uncomfortable feefee spots, then we gotta roll with it and roll with it hard, especially since "going high" did nothing.
My whole life, weird has not been used as a complimentary term towards me. My old job used to call me "eccentric," which I dunno if that's any better if "millionaire" isn't after it. My therapist is all "you aren't weird, why do you say that," and presumably she has a different definition in the more negative connotation?
I'm happy to clarify with "weird in the bad/creepy/thinks Lecter is real" verbiage if need be, though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:10 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
Weird to Creepy to Betentacled Lovecraftian Horror is up not as steep a slope as it used to be...
posted by y2karl at 2:16 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
posted by y2karl at 2:16 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
People who don't mind being called weird: good weird
People who get mad when being called weird: bad weird
posted by farlukar at 2:27 PM on August 7 [26 favorites]
People who get mad when being called weird: bad weird
posted by farlukar at 2:27 PM on August 7 [26 favorites]
"Weird" used to be what Republicans called liberals, along with "hippy" "granola" "tree-hugger" and "communist." And they presented themselves as normal, fiscally responsible, adults-who-deal-with-hard-truths.
The only reason this works now is because they stopped even pretending to be those things, though old talking points will occasionally surface. Bringing in the full-on fash/crazy/religous zealots killed off that approach and if you couldn't adapt, you left.
Plus in the meantime, crazy hippy ideas like caring about the planet and LGBTQ equality have become the norm.
This is something that's been on my mind ever since 2016. I'm old enough to remember in the 70s when grownups on TV would shake their heads and say those Democrats have just gone TOO FAR. Meanwhile in the last 10 years Republicans just keep getting crazier and crazier and the media continues to try to see their point of view.
But I'm glad to hear someone say that ideas like caring about the planet and LGBTQ equality are the norm.
Also I swear I heard Walz use the term "Fascist" in his speech last night, or am I imagining it?
posted by maggiemaggie at 2:28 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
The only reason this works now is because they stopped even pretending to be those things, though old talking points will occasionally surface. Bringing in the full-on fash/crazy/religous zealots killed off that approach and if you couldn't adapt, you left.
Plus in the meantime, crazy hippy ideas like caring about the planet and LGBTQ equality have become the norm.
This is something that's been on my mind ever since 2016. I'm old enough to remember in the 70s when grownups on TV would shake their heads and say those Democrats have just gone TOO FAR. Meanwhile in the last 10 years Republicans just keep getting crazier and crazier and the media continues to try to see their point of view.
But I'm glad to hear someone say that ideas like caring about the planet and LGBTQ equality are the norm.
Also I swear I heard Walz use the term "Fascist" in his speech last night, or am I imagining it?
posted by maggiemaggie at 2:28 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
Some NYT columnist’s bow tie is gonna spin at 100RPM while steam comes out of their ears if he did.
posted by Artw at 2:29 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:29 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
If we don’t keep it fresh it will lose potency through repetition.
Sure, keeping in mind that almost by definition if you're here on this website in this thread you are Very Online and politically aware. "Weird" has gotten picked up by the general public amazingly quickly, but if we're getting sick of it probably means that your cousin Fred in Akron is still a month away from seeing a meme on Facebook about how weird Vance is.
posted by soundguy99 at 2:33 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
Sure, keeping in mind that almost by definition if you're here on this website in this thread you are Very Online and politically aware. "Weird" has gotten picked up by the general public amazingly quickly, but if we're getting sick of it probably means that your cousin Fred in Akron is still a month away from seeing a meme on Facebook about how weird Vance is.
posted by soundguy99 at 2:33 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
People who don't mind being called weird: good weird
People who get mad when being called weird: bad weird
Or even: I'm weird, just not that kinda weird.
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:33 PM on August 7
People who get mad when being called weird: bad weird
Or even: I'm weird, just not that kinda weird.
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:33 PM on August 7
Let me TELL YOU about they ways I’m weird.
/prepares slide decks.
posted by Artw at 2:38 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
/prepares slide decks.
posted by Artw at 2:38 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
The "deplorable" thing is mirrored by "woke" on the left, in a sense. To be proudly deplorable or proudly woke is a signal to the in-group, and isn't something likely to resonate with the median voter, who considers themself to be neither of those things. The extremes of both left and right can seem pretty 'weird' to people near the centre. People who might previously have held their nose and ticked the box for a Republican out of habit may well have done so despite the feeling that something's not quite right about those guys. Having that fundamental weirdness, creepiness and sketchiness put front and centre is talking to those people as well as partisans on the left. And it's incredibly risky for the right to try to engage with.
posted by pipeski at 2:38 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
posted by pipeski at 2:38 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
That man has a cockroach nest between his ears. I saw Trump's signature the other day, and holy crap, even that looks totally chaotic and evil. It's like an EKG of the Joker having a heart attack.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:38 PM on August 7 [12 favorites]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:38 PM on August 7 [12 favorites]
Somebody’s posting I read yesterday somewhere, pointed out that the Marmalade Monster never laughs. And I can’t really remember that weird person ever actually laughing.
I recall that comment! That person credited Tim Walz with that observation.
But it's a longheld commonplace observation about TFG never bursting spontaneous heartfelt true laughter as opposed to his standard sneering hoots ala Nelson Muntz at the targets of his derision.
Pretty fickibg weird, isn't it?
posted by y2karl at 2:42 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
I recall that comment! That person credited Tim Walz with that observation.
But it's a longheld commonplace observation about TFG never bursting spontaneous heartfelt true laughter as opposed to his standard sneering hoots ala Nelson Muntz at the targets of his derision.
Pretty fickibg weird, isn't it?
posted by y2karl at 2:42 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
Penn Jillette made the observation Trump never jokes or laughs (unless you count saying mean shit and guffawing at himself for doing so) in a recent interview that was discussed on the blue..
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:51 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:51 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
I never understood that when they go low, we go high thing.
I've always thought of this as the antithesis of the "fight fire with fire" bromide, which implies that adopting your enemy's tactics increases your chances of prevailing. In my experience, this was not usually a productive tactic. I think it's better to show [him] something he's never seen.
The "we go high" notion relates more to maintaining your integrity. Or, as my mother used to say, "Don't wrestle with pigs; they like it, and all you'll get out of it is muddy."
I like the idea of watching steam come out of Trump's ears. But, I'm unconvinced that derision is a good counter-tactic to Trump's delusive bloviations. It's more like two kids on a playground throwing a neener at each other than adults vying for control of the most powerful position in the United States.
When they're down, kick them in the teeth. Been there, done that. But I was cornered and had no place to run. I don't recommend it.
Metaphors and similes flow like wine. Let's laugh at the Cheeto Man's small hands, but how about we hold our politicians to a higher standard?
posted by mule98J at 3:03 PM on August 7
I've always thought of this as the antithesis of the "fight fire with fire" bromide, which implies that adopting your enemy's tactics increases your chances of prevailing. In my experience, this was not usually a productive tactic. I think it's better to show [him] something he's never seen.
The "we go high" notion relates more to maintaining your integrity. Or, as my mother used to say, "Don't wrestle with pigs; they like it, and all you'll get out of it is muddy."
I like the idea of watching steam come out of Trump's ears. But, I'm unconvinced that derision is a good counter-tactic to Trump's delusive bloviations. It's more like two kids on a playground throwing a neener at each other than adults vying for control of the most powerful position in the United States.
When they're down, kick them in the teeth. Been there, done that. But I was cornered and had no place to run. I don't recommend it.
Metaphors and similes flow like wine. Let's laugh at the Cheeto Man's small hands, but how about we hold our politicians to a higher standard?
posted by mule98J at 3:03 PM on August 7
There's weird as in "You gotta meet my friend, they're so weird!" and then there's "Yeah, that guy's weird, don't get in a car alone with him."
I was done with the "But I'M weird!!" people after the second day. Simmer the fuck down Gordie LaChance, we're not talking about you.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 3:06 PM on August 7 [13 favorites]
I was done with the "But I'M weird!!" people after the second day. Simmer the fuck down Gordie LaChance, we're not talking about you.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 3:06 PM on August 7 [13 favorites]
I saw Trump's signature the other day, and holy crap, even that looks totally chaotic and evil.Handwriting analysis as a psychological tool is, I am quite sure, voodoo bullshit in the same vein as phrenology, but if there is any one piece of evidence that might make me reconsider, it’s Trump’s signature. It’s one of those little things that, if it showed up in a movie, would pull you right out of it because it’s just too on-the-nose.
posted by gelfin at 3:07 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
I'm on board with 'creepy weird'. That removes all ambiguity.
posted by bluesky43 at 3:09 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
posted by bluesky43 at 3:09 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
> How does one face-savingly deny fucking a couch? Or loveseat? Or Chesterfield? No, sir, I did not have relations with the furniture.It feels like something out of Lynch's Dune, complete with the weirding modules. "Couchfucker" is a killing word. LBJ understood it:
“Christ, we can't get away with calling him a pig-fucker,” the campaign manager protested. “Nobody's going to believe a thing like that.”posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 3:19 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]
“I know,” Johnson replied. “But let's make the sonofabitchh deny it.”
> How does one face-savingly deny fucking a couch? Or loveseat? Or Chesterfield? No, sir, I did not have relations with the furniture.
i can honestly only see one way out of this for jd vance: he's gotta own up to it. doesn't matter whether or not he did the deed, he's gotta come out and say that he fucked a couch and has nothing to hide.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 3:25 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
i can honestly only see one way out of this for jd vance: he's gotta own up to it. doesn't matter whether or not he did the deed, he's gotta come out and say that he fucked a couch and has nothing to hide.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 3:25 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
Creepy weird is accurate, but Biden nailed when he (sort of) called Trump a sick fuck. Wouldn't it be great if politicians just started saying that out loud?
posted by bitslayer at 3:35 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
posted by bitslayer at 3:35 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
I make stuffed toys and the idea of making a Vance doll and a couch has occurred to me.
I don't want such a thing around my house, mind you, so I'm not gonna, but it has occurred to me.
(I'm reading a dreary 95 page manual right now. I need more entertainment than this.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:48 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
I don't want such a thing around my house, mind you, so I'm not gonna, but it has occurred to me.
(I'm reading a dreary 95 page manual right now. I need more entertainment than this.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:48 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
"Basket of deplorables" never made a speck of sense to me. Why would the deplorables hang out in a basket, of all places? "Basket" makes the deplorables sound small and weirdly appealing. If they're in a basket they're... collectible? Was the implication that Trump crept out in the mildewy dark one cursed night with a scabby basket over his arm and harvested deplorables like horrible mutated eggplants from the devil bush? "Basket" made it wrong on another level, too. Not does it render the deplorables collectIBLE and thus small and therefore safe, they were collectED, i.e., in the basket already so thus controlled and curtailed and again therefore safe. Not a threat. "Basket of deplorables" was off message, or, at least, off what should have been the message, in at least a couple of ways and it was also just a fucked up, incomprehensible thing to say. Weird is by contrast absolutely straightforward. Weird is simple and punchy and the opposite of safe. And using weird as a pejorative is a whole lot less weird than trying to turn "basket of deplorables" into anything. No shade to Clinton, but her wordlab people blew it with that one big time.
posted by Don Pepino at 3:56 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 3:56 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
Basket is what you out adorable kittens in, not members of the KKK. Complete misfire.
But I do think it was on the media to have said “holy shit, what ARE all these KKK members doing supporting this guy?” and maybe explored what that was about a little. I guess it was not in their interests.
posted by Artw at 3:59 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
But I do think it was on the media to have said “holy shit, what ARE all these KKK members doing supporting this guy?” and maybe explored what that was about a little. I guess it was not in their interests.
posted by Artw at 3:59 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
Weird Wonald it is, then.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 4:04 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 4:04 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
artw, that's the argument I hit conservative family and acquaintances with:
"You don't think Trump is racist? Okay. So you do not think the things Trump says and does are racist? Let's let that slide and move on. People of color overwhelmingly say he is racist? You disagree? So you feel like you know more about racism than people of color? Okay, let's definitely put a pin in that because you should come back to that. But even so, we will let that slide, too. Racists think Trump is racist. In fact, they congratulate him regularly for how good he is at racism. Do you not think self-described racists know what racism is?"
That's usually when people get mad at me.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:05 PM on August 7 [37 favorites]
"You don't think Trump is racist? Okay. So you do not think the things Trump says and does are racist? Let's let that slide and move on. People of color overwhelmingly say he is racist? You disagree? So you feel like you know more about racism than people of color? Okay, let's definitely put a pin in that because you should come back to that. But even so, we will let that slide, too. Racists think Trump is racist. In fact, they congratulate him regularly for how good he is at racism. Do you not think self-described racists know what racism is?"
That's usually when people get mad at me.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:05 PM on August 7 [37 favorites]
It was the literal KKK! That was surprising back then!
posted by Artw at 4:08 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:08 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
I keep thinking of that old expression…
Person - That guy is really funny!
Other person - Funny ha ha, or funny weird?
posted by njohnson23 at 4:14 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
Person - That guy is really funny!
Other person - Funny ha ha, or funny weird?
posted by njohnson23 at 4:14 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
Ah so it’s “Weird [complimentary]” Al
posted by whuppy at 5:13 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
posted by whuppy at 5:13 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
I've come around to weird after seeing how effective it's been so far. Creepy also sorta works, but scary doesn't.
The left has been using lots of descriptors in the past like evil, scary, mean, soulless, etc - but I think in hindsight those don't work as much- Trump has no moral compass and thinks those are "cool" and just make him look like a better strongman; his base is also willing to put up with it so long as he can own the libs and appoint their judges.
But words like weird or old probably do counter his strongman image more, getting under his skin and making people second-guess him more.
posted by p3t3 at 5:54 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
The left has been using lots of descriptors in the past like evil, scary, mean, soulless, etc - but I think in hindsight those don't work as much- Trump has no moral compass and thinks those are "cool" and just make him look like a better strongman; his base is also willing to put up with it so long as he can own the libs and appoint their judges.
But words like weird or old probably do counter his strongman image more, getting under his skin and making people second-guess him more.
posted by p3t3 at 5:54 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
Insight from Parker Malloy's 'Weird' Times in American Politics: The New Democratic Playbook --
So why is this "weird" label hitting such a nerve? It's not just about the word itself; it's about power, perception, and the battle for "normal."...
This is why the "weird" strategy is so effective. It's not just name-calling; it's a fundamental challenge to the power structure conservatives have relied on for years. It's saying, "Your version of normal is outdated, out of touch, and frankly, a little strange."
By pointing this out, Democrats aren't just scoring political points. They're shifting the entire conversation about what's normal in America. They're saying it's normal to be accepting, to be diverse, to live and let live. And that constant policing of other people's identities and expressions? That's what's really weird.
posted by Pedantzilla at 6:34 PM on August 7 [14 favorites]
So why is this "weird" label hitting such a nerve? It's not just about the word itself; it's about power, perception, and the battle for "normal."...
This is why the "weird" strategy is so effective. It's not just name-calling; it's a fundamental challenge to the power structure conservatives have relied on for years. It's saying, "Your version of normal is outdated, out of touch, and frankly, a little strange."
By pointing this out, Democrats aren't just scoring political points. They're shifting the entire conversation about what's normal in America. They're saying it's normal to be accepting, to be diverse, to live and let live. And that constant policing of other people's identities and expressions? That's what's really weird.
posted by Pedantzilla at 6:34 PM on August 7 [14 favorites]
Maybe it's because I present as a pretty normal white guy and also think I'm a weirdo but to me it's just like when people talk about "white men". Yeah, as a group we're terrible and when terrible things happen it's more often than not the result of something white men did. But I know I'm not one of those white men so they're not really talking about me.
I'm also weird but I'm a fun weird, a good weird and I know intrinsically that calling conservatives weird just means something different.
The thing that makes me a little careful is that "they" part of it feels like edging up to and thinking about dipping a toe in the lake of othering. We're a long way from "they're weird in a way that makes them less human and deserving of persecution", I just want to be careful not to take a step down that path.
posted by VTX at 6:59 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
I'm also weird but I'm a fun weird, a good weird and I know intrinsically that calling conservatives weird just means something different.
The thing that makes me a little careful is that "they" part of it feels like edging up to and thinking about dipping a toe in the lake of othering. We're a long way from "they're weird in a way that makes them less human and deserving of persecution", I just want to be careful not to take a step down that path.
posted by VTX at 6:59 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
Sid - that’s weird [complimentary], we are talking about weird [derogatory] - there’s a whole world of difference.
That's the difference between quirky weird and creepy weird. One is pleasantly eccentric or off-beat, in a way that is fun and amusing. The other is obsessive, in a way that makes you feel unsafe.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:53 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
That's the difference between quirky weird and creepy weird. One is pleasantly eccentric or off-beat, in a way that is fun and amusing. The other is obsessive, in a way that makes you feel unsafe.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:53 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
The *chefs kiss* part is that it bugs him (and his followers) so much.
The left has been using lots of descriptors in the past like evil, scary, mean, soulless, etc
Because it's clear it bugs not only Trump, but a whole raft of followers, it's important to not only keep using 'weird', but also to develop alternative descriptors that resonate in the same way. One word is not going to be sustained in its impact over several months, but there are plenty of words that produce the same emotive response in people who consider being called things like scary or mean to be a compliment - they're serious people doing a job (or wanting to) that means they have to be serious and tough. Words that convey weakness or not-normal are what's needed, because they believe themselves to be strong and normal and can't stand being told otherwise.
It's still early-ish days, so there's time to start trying out some other words to see what bugs them in the same way. They have to be words that everyone uses and that produce a clear mental image in the mind - the problem with 'deplorabe' was that nobody really uses it in conversation and most people are probably not really sure what it means. Simple, preferably one-syllable words, used in everyday language that universally convey the same thing as 'creepy weird'. Creepy might even be a good one - very close in meaning, universally negative and can be combined with weird to amplify the meaning.
posted by dg at 7:55 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
The left has been using lots of descriptors in the past like evil, scary, mean, soulless, etc
Because it's clear it bugs not only Trump, but a whole raft of followers, it's important to not only keep using 'weird', but also to develop alternative descriptors that resonate in the same way. One word is not going to be sustained in its impact over several months, but there are plenty of words that produce the same emotive response in people who consider being called things like scary or mean to be a compliment - they're serious people doing a job (or wanting to) that means they have to be serious and tough. Words that convey weakness or not-normal are what's needed, because they believe themselves to be strong and normal and can't stand being told otherwise.
It's still early-ish days, so there's time to start trying out some other words to see what bugs them in the same way. They have to be words that everyone uses and that produce a clear mental image in the mind - the problem with 'deplorabe' was that nobody really uses it in conversation and most people are probably not really sure what it means. Simple, preferably one-syllable words, used in everyday language that universally convey the same thing as 'creepy weird'. Creepy might even be a good one - very close in meaning, universally negative and can be combined with weird to amplify the meaning.
posted by dg at 7:55 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
The other talking point I would like to see is a “where’s Mike” meme.
like his former VP hasn’t endorsed him. THAT is truly weird. Two word question. Evokes so many issues with the guy (democracy, vindictiveness). Even the fact he needs a new VP is weird if you think about it. Wonder if JD Vance has an answer. lets go.
BUT WHERE’S MIKE???
posted by web5.0 at 8:02 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]
like his former VP hasn’t endorsed him. THAT is truly weird. Two word question. Evokes so many issues with the guy (democracy, vindictiveness). Even the fact he needs a new VP is weird if you think about it. Wonder if JD Vance has an answer. lets go.
BUT WHERE’S MIKE???
posted by web5.0 at 8:02 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]
the problem with 'deplorable' was that nobody really uses it in conversation and most people are probably not really sure what it means.
Well even worse IMO was that the word rhymes with adorable (recalling the photo from that time of a red-state grannie wearing a pink&purple bowling jacket embroidered on the back with "Adorable Deplorables"). What rhymes with weird?
posted by Rash at 8:05 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
Well even worse IMO was that the word rhymes with adorable (recalling the photo from that time of a red-state grannie wearing a pink&purple bowling jacket embroidered on the back with "Adorable Deplorables"). What rhymes with weird?
posted by Rash at 8:05 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
A lot about the "weird" thing is related to the way that over the past couple decades, especially since the Trump era, a whole lot of the far-right base has just had their brains cooked until fall-off-the-bone tender by online echo chambers that are completely divorced from real life. As a result, especially after Biden dropped out of the race, they are finding themselves forced to do actual politics and ingratiate themselves to normal people, and they have simply forgotten how to do it. Twenty years ago, the Republican base made some sort of effort to seem "man of the people," but in the year 2024 we're waist deep into "Bud Light is Woke now and we must performatively Despise it" and "fellas, is it gay to be attracted to a woman" territory, which is so detached from how people actually behave. So much of the right-wing base, especially the fascist types, depends on being able to believe that they're actually the normal ones, perhaps even the Only Sane Ones Left, with an unshakeable faith in the notion of the Silent Majority that surely sides with them.
Terms like "deplorable" also didn't work on would-be fascists, because everyone knows that in fiction, the bad guys are cool and impressive, and being called things like that lends them the same sort of Voldemort-style power and scariness as a refusal to ever say the name "Donald Trump." They want to be feared and hated!
The "weird" label has been cathartic in part because it's so accurate, especially nowadays, and because every single attempt at a denial or retort winds up sounding like "Weird? WEIRD? Call me WEIRD, will you? You know what's WEIRD, are these ONE HUNDRED CRYING STRANGERS I keep a collection of videos of on my phone, at all times. I am EXTREMELY NORMAL"
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:21 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
Terms like "deplorable" also didn't work on would-be fascists, because everyone knows that in fiction, the bad guys are cool and impressive, and being called things like that lends them the same sort of Voldemort-style power and scariness as a refusal to ever say the name "Donald Trump." They want to be feared and hated!
The "weird" label has been cathartic in part because it's so accurate, especially nowadays, and because every single attempt at a denial or retort winds up sounding like "Weird? WEIRD? Call me WEIRD, will you? You know what's WEIRD, are these ONE HUNDRED CRYING STRANGERS I keep a collection of videos of on my phone, at all times. I am EXTREMELY NORMAL"
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:21 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
What rhymes with weird?
Vance's beard?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:22 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
Vance's beard?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:22 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
I think the crux of the power of the word 'weird' is that it makes people think. In Nineteen-Eighty-Four, George Orwell wrote that the first step in getting people to change their minds is to make them uncertain. 'Weird' isn't good or bad - but it is hard to judge. Your only options are to ignore it or think about it - and it's human nature to turn chaos into order, so weird things are hard to ignore.
(I once saw a video about how this same effect makes it possible to get away with making your own art for a video game if you're not good at it by making it weird instead. It's also why Abba's unusually lyrics are so effective.)
posted by BiggerJ at 8:29 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]
(I once saw a video about how this same effect makes it possible to get away with making your own art for a video game if you're not good at it by making it weird instead. It's also why Abba's unusually lyrics are so effective.)
posted by BiggerJ at 8:29 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]
What rhymes with weird?
Vance's beard?
Here's my beard
Ain't it weird?
Don't be skeered,
It's just a beard.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:35 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
Vance's beard?
Here's my beard
Ain't it weird?
Don't be skeered,
It's just a beard.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:35 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
Other words that may bug them and get to a similar point: creepy, cringe, gross, ick, embarrassing, awkward, disturbing...
Any more?
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:36 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
Any more?
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:36 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
I don't mind being called weird at all. I've been weird as far back as I remember. And I don't think I'll be giving it up.
The difference is that Trump and his kind are hopelessly insecure and desperate to be respected and taken seriously. Which is why dismissing them with a humorous "weird" has been neutering them so effectively. They know it robs them of any chance of respect and gravitas, particularly with the normies, to whom their weirdness has been obvious all along. And since weird is all they got, they double down on the weird.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:42 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
The difference is that Trump and his kind are hopelessly insecure and desperate to be respected and taken seriously. Which is why dismissing them with a humorous "weird" has been neutering them so effectively. They know it robs them of any chance of respect and gravitas, particularly with the normies, to whom their weirdness has been obvious all along. And since weird is all they got, they double down on the weird.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:42 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]
This just in: The Politics of 'Weird' by Jay Caspian Kang in the New Yorker. "Kamala Harris's campaign has smartly positioned her as the normal candidate. But disagreements and distractions lie ahead."
(archive link)
posted by Rash at 8:49 PM on August 7
(archive link)
posted by Rash at 8:49 PM on August 7
Clearly Greg_Ace, you are a "commie fag junkie"...
(sorry for the F-word, but it is a quote)
posted by Windopaene at 8:55 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
(sorry for the F-word, but it is a quote)
posted by Windopaene at 8:55 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
And for other words that might work:
Bizarre
Odd
etc.
posted by Windopaene at 8:57 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
Bizarre
Odd
etc.
posted by Windopaene at 8:57 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
As to "deplorable", as fitting a description as it was, it's easy to brush off such a criticism from someone you don't like.
But getting called "weird", when you are seeking respect and adoration, sows doubt and uncertainty. These are people who absolutely don't see themselves as weird.
Maybe these weirdos will have enough self awareness to hire some behavior consultants to advise them on how to appear normal. But it's unlikely, since self awareness is one of the things they so sorely lack. And they wouldn't trust consultation anyhow. I've been following Vance and Fox just today, and they don't have a clue as to how to behave in a way that isn't weird and creepy. Vance has been stalking Kamala's plane, giving strange, flat answers to simple freebee questions from the press, and making strange, alienating attacks on people he's not running against, thinking he's being clever and effective. The Fox crew has been lobbing a series of attacks from lame to weird, just to see what will stick, and are having trouble there. There have been a couple normal commentators telling them the fucking obvious as to why they're flailing, but they are so damaged or perhaps accustomed to their usual bullshit angles, it doesn't seem to be getting through yet.
If they do take heed and start acting like normal people, maybe they can be more effective. But then they'd lose their weird edge that created MAGA in the first place.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:14 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
But getting called "weird", when you are seeking respect and adoration, sows doubt and uncertainty. These are people who absolutely don't see themselves as weird.
Maybe these weirdos will have enough self awareness to hire some behavior consultants to advise them on how to appear normal. But it's unlikely, since self awareness is one of the things they so sorely lack. And they wouldn't trust consultation anyhow. I've been following Vance and Fox just today, and they don't have a clue as to how to behave in a way that isn't weird and creepy. Vance has been stalking Kamala's plane, giving strange, flat answers to simple freebee questions from the press, and making strange, alienating attacks on people he's not running against, thinking he's being clever and effective. The Fox crew has been lobbing a series of attacks from lame to weird, just to see what will stick, and are having trouble there. There have been a couple normal commentators telling them the fucking obvious as to why they're flailing, but they are so damaged or perhaps accustomed to their usual bullshit angles, it doesn't seem to be getting through yet.
If they do take heed and start acting like normal people, maybe they can be more effective. But then they'd lose their weird edge that created MAGA in the first place.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:14 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
Ah so it’s “Weird [complimentary]” Al
Yes, and I'd say "Weird like Al" is a synonym for "Weird [complimentary]".
So I suppose one could also say "'Weird like Al' Al."
posted by biogeo at 9:22 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
I'd like a revival of 'crackpot' to ostracize them.
posted by ipe at 9:25 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
posted by ipe at 9:25 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]
When they're down, kick them in the teeth. Been there, done that. But I was cornered and had no place to run.
I'm poor, if we lose this election, I AM cornered with no place to run. I guess we're not all in the same boat.
posted by evilDoug at 10:08 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
I'm poor, if we lose this election, I AM cornered with no place to run. I guess we're not all in the same boat.
posted by evilDoug at 10:08 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
Cringe. I like cringe, and they might get it too.
Cringe. Weird. Ick.
A gf from college who ended up being a media person to some repub senator was strong on "ick" or "icky" being really offputting when we were 19.
posted by porpoise at 11:39 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
Cringe. Weird. Ick.
A gf from college who ended up being a media person to some repub senator was strong on "ick" or "icky" being really offputting when we were 19.
posted by porpoise at 11:39 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
Household young teens were loading the Trump/Vance website for Internet reasons, declared the style "cringe", critiqued the CSS behavior, used Dev Tools to see "they've got a client-side hardcoded list of names they're saying donated right now!", and then replaced all the images with cat pictures.
posted by away for regrooving at 11:54 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
posted by away for regrooving at 11:54 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]
I'm about as weird as it gets and I disagree with busting out the thesaurus or finding alternative words for weird to preserve it for "good" weird.
For one, it definitely seems to be hitting a nerve. But for two, using a thesaurus won't work as well because of differences in vocabulary depth and abilities, but they sure do understand "weird".
posted by loquacious at 1:18 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
For one, it definitely seems to be hitting a nerve. But for two, using a thesaurus won't work as well because of differences in vocabulary depth and abilities, but they sure do understand "weird".
posted by loquacious at 1:18 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
> BUT WHERE’S MIKE???
It's unfortunate that Ted Cruz turned out to be the Zodiac Killer, otherwise there might have been a good story about what Vance did to Pence.
Now that you mention it, Vance does look like the cockroach from Men in Black.
posted by constraint at 1:59 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
It's unfortunate that Ted Cruz turned out to be the Zodiac Killer, otherwise there might have been a good story about what Vance did to Pence.
Now that you mention it, Vance does look like the cockroach from Men in Black.
posted by constraint at 1:59 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
I swear I heard Walz use the term "Fascist" in his speech last night, or am I imagining it?
“Fascists depend on fear… we’re not afraid of weird people”
posted by HearHere at 3:56 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]
“Fascists depend on fear… we’re not afraid of weird people”
posted by HearHere at 3:56 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]
For those who are worried or need clarity about the difference between wholesome weird and creepy weird, I made a handy DnD Alignment style chart!
Here's the text version:
Picture a three by three grid.
In the top row we have:
Wholesome Normie: Mister Rogers
Wholesome Neutral: Kermit the Frog
Wholesome Weird: Miss Frizzle
The middle row is:
Neutral Normie: Marge Simpson
True Neutral: Batman
Neutral Weird: Pee-wee Herman
And the last row contains:
Creepy Normie: The Stepford Wives
Creepy Neutral: Hannibal Lecter
Creepy Weird: J.D. Vance
Feel free to make your own versions and/or modify this one and/or suggest your own takes on who best fits these categories!
posted by overglow at 4:48 AM on August 8 [15 favorites]
Here's the text version:
Picture a three by three grid.
In the top row we have:
Wholesome Normie: Mister Rogers
Wholesome Neutral: Kermit the Frog
Wholesome Weird: Miss Frizzle
The middle row is:
Neutral Normie: Marge Simpson
True Neutral: Batman
Neutral Weird: Pee-wee Herman
And the last row contains:
Creepy Normie: The Stepford Wives
Creepy Neutral: Hannibal Lecter
Creepy Weird: J.D. Vance
Feel free to make your own versions and/or modify this one and/or suggest your own takes on who best fits these categories!
posted by overglow at 4:48 AM on August 8 [15 favorites]
Yeah Ms Frizzle took children on a field trip inside another student's colon and JD Vance is certified creepy-weirder. Think about that.
posted by phunniemee at 4:54 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 4:54 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]
Batman regularly cosplays as a bat while wearing his underwear on the outside of his pants, and has a tool he invented that he calls a batarang. Just sayin'.
posted by biogeo at 5:00 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 5:00 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]
But I know I'm not one of those white men so they're not really talking about me.
As a white man I think we have the responsibility to take everything on board even if only to remind us to always be examining our behavior and root out our own biases that try to hide in our blind spots. A different perspective is often one of the most valuable things that other can give us.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:23 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
As a white man I think we have the responsibility to take everything on board even if only to remind us to always be examining our behavior and root out our own biases that try to hide in our blind spots. A different perspective is often one of the most valuable things that other can give us.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:23 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
i can honestly only see one way out of this for jd vance: he's gotta own up to it. doesn't matter whether or not he did the deed, he's gotta come out and say that he fucked a couch and has nothing to hide.
Circumstantial evidence would seem to suggest he has a little something to conceal.
posted by y2karl at 5:26 AM on August 8
Circumstantial evidence would seem to suggest he has a little something to conceal.
posted by y2karl at 5:26 AM on August 8
Circumstantial evidence would seem to suggest he has a little something to conceal.
Yeah. After the couch story's presence in the book was debunked, my first thought given the specific pages mentioned was that someone at the publisher or maybe an editor was deliberately referencing an earlier draft while knowing that it wasn't in the book. Seeing how terminally deprived J.D. Vance is of any self reflection, I wouldn't be surprised if the first drafts of his self-written memoir contained all sorts of crazy, weird shit.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:46 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
Yeah. After the couch story's presence in the book was debunked, my first thought given the specific pages mentioned was that someone at the publisher or maybe an editor was deliberately referencing an earlier draft while knowing that it wasn't in the book. Seeing how terminally deprived J.D. Vance is of any self reflection, I wouldn't be surprised if the first drafts of his self-written memoir contained all sorts of crazy, weird shit.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:46 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
overglow > True Neutral: Batman
wait wait what, a filthy rich dude who dresses up in a rubber suit and goes out at night and beats up people who are "doing crime" isn't super weird and creepy?
posted by egypturnash at 7:03 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]
wait wait what, a filthy rich dude who dresses up in a rubber suit and goes out at night and beats up people who are "doing crime" isn't super weird and creepy?
posted by egypturnash at 7:03 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]
wait wait what, a filthy rich dude who dresses up in a rubber suit and goes out at night and beats up people who are "doing crime" isn't super weird and creepy?
Ha ha, fair point! This is the placement I've gotten the most pushback about. I was having a hard time figuring out True Neutral and was partially inspired by those alignment chart memes that have different versions of Batman for every alignment.
Who would you pick for True Neutral?
posted by overglow at 7:15 AM on August 8
Ha ha, fair point! This is the placement I've gotten the most pushback about. I was having a hard time figuring out True Neutral and was partially inspired by those alignment chart memes that have different versions of Batman for every alignment.
Who would you pick for True Neutral?
posted by overglow at 7:15 AM on August 8
i propose john wick as true neutral, though of course if he’s added there needs to be a third axis for hyperviolence
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 7:20 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 7:20 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
Maybe we’ve stumbled on something important- nobody actually fits in the center box. It’s a null set.
posted by susiswimmer at 7:21 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]
posted by susiswimmer at 7:21 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]
Circumstantial evidence would seem to suggest he has a little something to conceal.
Something in the gap between the cushions.
posted by Artw at 7:28 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
Something in the gap between the cushions.
posted by Artw at 7:28 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
I’d like to nominate Bob Ross for the “Wholesome Weird” category.
True Neutral is indeed tough. I too don’t think Batman quite fits, but I think other members of Gotham society might suggest Bruce Wayne does. Real life nominee: perhaps John Oliver?
posted by gelfin at 7:38 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
True Neutral is indeed tough. I too don’t think Batman quite fits, but I think other members of Gotham society might suggest Bruce Wayne does. Real life nominee: perhaps John Oliver?
posted by gelfin at 7:38 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
What about James Bond for True Neutral? He's too violent to be totally wholesome but not fully creepy. And he's definitely normie-coded but he's also a glamorous spy who's an international pkayboy traveler, which is unusual. Oh, or what about Dr. Who?? The David Tenant version, whichever number he is.
posted by overglow at 8:07 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]
posted by overglow at 8:07 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]
They are incapable of not being weird. They cannot relate to the joys and experiences of normal people in any way whatsoever because they only understand mean spirited freak shit and coded language. Use it to shiv them.
Flagged as fantastic (along with phunnimee's amazing comment earlier of course), and a million times this.
posted by Gelatin at 8:14 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
Flagged as fantastic (along with phunnimee's amazing comment earlier of course), and a million times this.
posted by Gelatin at 8:14 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
Some beans are being plated here -- and everywhere else on the internet. Here are mine:
I think it's more about who says it that the word itself. Harris and Walz are not in any way normal people, they are the VP and a governor. But they seem normal and likable, that old thing about who you'd have a beer with.
Most modern presidents have had that, it's just that things have been weird since 2015. Hillary Clinton didn't have it because she is probably insanely intelligent* and she confuses people and Trump didn't have it because, you know.. But he was running against Hillary. Biden kind of had it once, but I feel he lost it during the lockdown, and I don't feel he ever really had it like Obama or Bush did. I mean, think about all the stories about him touching people inappropriately, and the whole Anita Hill controversy.
You can't call people weird if you are the weird person -- and I know because I'm weird and I've tried and it didn't go well.
*I have a friend who is like that, and I love her and thinks she is wonderful, but I've noticed a lot of people get nervous around her
posted by mumimor at 8:16 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]
I think it's more about who says it that the word itself. Harris and Walz are not in any way normal people, they are the VP and a governor. But they seem normal and likable, that old thing about who you'd have a beer with.
Most modern presidents have had that, it's just that things have been weird since 2015. Hillary Clinton didn't have it because she is probably insanely intelligent* and she confuses people and Trump didn't have it because, you know.. But he was running against Hillary. Biden kind of had it once, but I feel he lost it during the lockdown, and I don't feel he ever really had it like Obama or Bush did. I mean, think about all the stories about him touching people inappropriately, and the whole Anita Hill controversy.
You can't call people weird if you are the weird person -- and I know because I'm weird and I've tried and it didn't go well.
*I have a friend who is like that, and I love her and thinks she is wonderful, but I've noticed a lot of people get nervous around her
posted by mumimor at 8:16 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]
The keystone of reactionary belief is the religious certainty that they are normal, that their bigotries are both natural and universal, that their policies are common sense, and that everyone else knows it. Being labeled weird is a direct attack on the most important, load bearing part of their self conception.
Because the thing about being reactionary as opposed to conservative is that conservatives try to stop or slow down societal change, but being reactionaries means that society has already changed and they are now outside the norm.
"Weird" hints at the truth that the so-called "liberal media" dare not mention: That Republican policies and values are unpopular.
posted by Gelatin at 8:57 AM on August 8 [13 favorites]
Because the thing about being reactionary as opposed to conservative is that conservatives try to stop or slow down societal change, but being reactionaries means that society has already changed and they are now outside the norm.
"Weird" hints at the truth that the so-called "liberal media" dare not mention: That Republican policies and values are unpopular.
posted by Gelatin at 8:57 AM on August 8 [13 favorites]
One way I know that the "weird" attack is effective is that Megan McArdle is concern trolling about it.
posted by Gelatin at 9:54 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 9:54 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]
Judging from a cursory glance at places like reddit, seems like the right is trying to counter the weird label by leaning hard into the "tampon Tim" label.
I don't see why the Democrats need to give any ground on the culture war front whatsoever.
Who's more of a danger to your kids, Ru-Paul or a school shooter?
The right-wing inspire school shooters and nazis. Cruelty is their brand.
They keep railing on invented fantasies of a trans predator because they always think like predators.
Of course JD Vance wrote the forward to the Project 2025 guy's book. Of course JD Vance agrees with Jack Posobiec that progressives are "unhuman". They want Handmaid's Tale to happen. Fuck these guys.
posted by ishmael at 10:01 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]
I don't see why the Democrats need to give any ground on the culture war front whatsoever.
Who's more of a danger to your kids, Ru-Paul or a school shooter?
The right-wing inspire school shooters and nazis. Cruelty is their brand.
They keep railing on invented fantasies of a trans predator because they always think like predators.
Of course JD Vance wrote the forward to the Project 2025 guy's book. Of course JD Vance agrees with Jack Posobiec that progressives are "unhuman". They want Handmaid's Tale to happen. Fuck these guys.
posted by ishmael at 10:01 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]
We even have a very recent example of someone inspired by this cruelty culture trying to assassinate their own presidential candidate. Yes we don't know his motives, but I can imagine them entailing some version of going out in a blaze of glory. Notice the right-wing media have stopped talking about that story. Fucking weirdos is right.
posted by ishmael at 10:06 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
posted by ishmael at 10:06 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
WaPo: Walz’s ‘couch’ quip, and Democrats’ growing comfort in going low.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:23 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
One of the biggest dilemmas in politics is how much to avail yourself of the dark arts. You might think a tactic is morally wrong or underhanded. But what happens when you see your opponent getting some traction with such things? Do you emulate them (even halfway), in the name of leveling the playing field and defeating someone you believe is dangerous? If they tell blatant lies, for example, do you feel justified in stretching the truth? Do you conclude that failing to do so amounts to unilaterally disarming?Frankly, taking pot shots back, even if it's inaccurate/a silly joke, is...working.
Michelle Obama, in her 2020 Democratic National Convention speech, reflected on disagreements in the party over her “we go high” mantra and how that had panned out for her party.
“My answer: Going high is the only thing that works, because when we go low, when we use those same tactics of degrading and dehumanizing others, we just become part of the ugly noise that’s drowning out everything else,” she said. “We degrade ourselves. We degrade the very causes for which we fight.”
Four years later, Democrats may be making a different calculation about what’s required to win.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:23 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
WaPo: Walz’s ‘couch’ quip, and Democrats’ growing comfort in going low.
Republicans going low is the norm and therefore not considered newsworthy, let alone worthy of condemnation.
But Democrats pointing out accurately that their opponents are outside the norm sends the so-called "liberal media" to the fainting couch.
It isn't like the media is about to start discussing comparative differences in policy.
posted by Gelatin at 10:33 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]
Republicans going low is the norm and therefore not considered newsworthy, let alone worthy of condemnation.
But Democrats pointing out accurately that their opponents are outside the norm sends the so-called "liberal media" to the fainting couch.
It isn't like the media is about to start discussing comparative differences in policy.
posted by Gelatin at 10:33 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]
I'm taking one for the team and watching the Mar A Lago press conference now, and as I suspected it's more of the same-old same-old.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:10 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:10 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]
So far it is same-old same-old. So far he's been asked about the attendance at his rallies, which sparked a string of comments about....electric cars and the border.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:30 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:30 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
"deep into transgender" is less weird than "deep into couch"
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:32 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:32 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
Dear God, the man is now saying that he had a bigger crowd on January 6 than MARTIN LUTHER KING JR had.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:36 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:36 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
Which brings us back to topic, because he's trying to get the Democrats mad at him and complaining about him again rather than making fun of him.
"He thinks he had a bigger crowd than MLK? He's weird."
posted by Gelatin at 11:39 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]
"He thinks he had a bigger crowd than MLK? He's weird."
posted by Gelatin at 11:39 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]
LOL - he doesn't think abortion will be a big issue.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:41 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:41 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]
also seems fitting that a short-fingered vulgarian continually talks about size, as if that's not a clear signal about 🤏
also i live for the day when their slurs and implications against the city of chicago cause as much pearl clutching among libs as talking about furniture
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:46 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]
also i live for the day when their slurs and implications against the city of chicago cause as much pearl clutching among libs as talking about furniture
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:46 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]
also seems fitting that a short-fingered vulgarian continually talks about size, as if that's not a clear signal about 🤏
bet his 🤏 can't even clear the antimacassar
posted by phunniemee at 11:50 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]
bet his 🤏 can't even clear the antimacassar
posted by phunniemee at 11:50 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]
Remember that during the 2016 Republican primary debates, Trump assured the nation on live TV that there was nothing wrong with his member, in what I believe was an electoral first. That's a sign of self assurance if I ever saw one.
And talk about weird!
posted by Gelatin at 11:53 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
And talk about weird!
posted by Gelatin at 11:53 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]
....Hang on.
Trump said that he didn't think Harris was as smart as Biden. I didn't hear the question he got to follow up, but - I shit you not, he started by saying "Well, she's a woman...."
I bet someone could very easily spin that into "Trump thinks Harris isn't as smart because she's a woman".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:58 AM on August 8 [10 favorites]
Trump said that he didn't think Harris was as smart as Biden. I didn't hear the question he got to follow up, but - I shit you not, he started by saying "Well, she's a woman...."
I bet someone could very easily spin that into "Trump thinks Harris isn't as smart because she's a woman".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:58 AM on August 8 [10 favorites]
I don’t think that requires spin to make it say that.
Though… it will be interesting to see how this entire mess gets translated into English by WaPo, NYT etc.
posted by Artw at 11:59 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]
Though… it will be interesting to see how this entire mess gets translated into English by WaPo, NYT etc.
posted by Artw at 11:59 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]
One thing I despise about Trump is that, until he became prominent, I never realized I have small hands.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:00 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:00 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]
The transgender world is just like the regular world, except we don't torture kids to score political points or protect our fragile masculinity there.
posted by pattern juggler at 12:01 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]
posted by pattern juggler at 12:01 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]
....Can someone from the press ask a question about Project 2025 so Trump finally ends this thing?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:03 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:03 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]
I wish Walz was deep into my transgender world. :(
posted by brook horse at 12:03 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]
posted by brook horse at 12:03 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]
I would be happy to see the crowd size comparison pics again. I would also like to see those 88 thousand he recently had in North Carolina and some of his other "biggest crowds in the history of the world" crowds he mentioned. He did seem somewhat more lucid than expected - but he still can't not be himself. hahahaha, such a creepy weirdo.
posted by Glinn at 12:04 PM on August 8
posted by Glinn at 12:04 PM on August 8
Question: How often does #Tim_Walz think about the Roman Empire?posted by kirkaracha at 12:12 PM on August 8 [39 favorites]
Not as often as JD thinks about the Ottoman Empire.
Ooh, "Gavin Newscum." Burn!
posted by kirkaracha at 12:15 PM on August 8
posted by kirkaracha at 12:15 PM on August 8
Vance is deep into Couch World, also accessible from exit 23B off Route 1, just next to Donut Planet and Hammocks R Us.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:38 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:38 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]
Though… it will be interesting to see how this entire mess gets translated into English by WaPo, NYT etc.
Oh here we go.
It really cannot be understated how much they help legitimize this man by doing this shit.
posted by Artw at 12:55 PM on August 8 [7 favorites]
Oh here we go.
It really cannot be understated how much they help legitimize this man by doing this shit.
posted by Artw at 12:55 PM on August 8 [7 favorites]
Good piece on the continual freak outs:
Men On The Verge Of A Nervous Breakdown
posted by Artw at 1:05 PM on August 8 [6 favorites]
Men On The Verge Of A Nervous Breakdown
posted by Artw at 1:05 PM on August 8 [6 favorites]
In thinking about keeping "weird" new and relevant for the next 2.5 months, I keep thinking about specificity.
Like, the couch thing has legs because it is vivid and 100 percent in keeping with the Vance vibes.
So, we just need a new image to run with every week or so.
Like "Trump is the guy who tries to get you to swap him for the midde seat on a long flight, then watches weird not-quite-porn and tries to get you to buy a time share"
posted by DebetEsse at 1:08 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]
Like, the couch thing has legs because it is vivid and 100 percent in keeping with the Vance vibes.
So, we just need a new image to run with every week or so.
Like "Trump is the guy who tries to get you to swap him for the midde seat on a long flight, then watches weird not-quite-porn and tries to get you to buy a time share"
posted by DebetEsse at 1:08 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]
Like "Trump is the guy who tries to get you to swap him for the midde seat on a long flight, then watches weird not-quite-porn and tries to get you to buy a time share"
Reminds me of the "Drake is the kind of guy..." style jokes that have been aimed at Vance.
Freaky-ass white boy, he a Chesterfield god.
posted by charred husk at 1:12 PM on August 8
Reminds me of the "Drake is the kind of guy..." style jokes that have been aimed at Vance.
Freaky-ass white boy, he a Chesterfield god.
posted by charred husk at 1:12 PM on August 8
” something Robert Evans said on twitter that stuck with me is that Trump knows both that he almost got his brains blown out on live TV and that someone would have set it to Yakety Sax within an hour
his mind has built a lot of defense mechanisms over the years but that would fuck anyone up, even him ”
posted by Artw at 1:12 PM on August 8 [13 favorites]
his mind has built a lot of defense mechanisms over the years but that would fuck anyone up, even him ”
posted by Artw at 1:12 PM on August 8 [13 favorites]
Came to post the same link Artw did, but they beat me to it.
This bit from Men On The Verge Of A Nervous Breakdown helps (to me) explain why the whole Weird thing caught on so easily.
There are a lot of people out there who really want to punish other people, and who will indulge that fantasy until it is big enough to crowd out every other thing in and around them, but there are also people who aspire to something more than that. The former population will tend to think the latter secretly wants the same things they do, and hate them for not admitting it; the latter will hold the former in contempt, not just because of their backwards and shabby aspirations but because of how unappealing—how much smaller and more anxious and more spiteful—those desires have made them. That assessment is easy, less automatic than autonomic. It's the sort of decision that gets made in the same part of your brain that tells you not to eat a hot dog you see lying on the sidewalk.
posted by beerbudget at 1:59 PM on August 8 [9 favorites]
This bit from Men On The Verge Of A Nervous Breakdown helps (to me) explain why the whole Weird thing caught on so easily.
There are a lot of people out there who really want to punish other people, and who will indulge that fantasy until it is big enough to crowd out every other thing in and around them, but there are also people who aspire to something more than that. The former population will tend to think the latter secretly wants the same things they do, and hate them for not admitting it; the latter will hold the former in contempt, not just because of their backwards and shabby aspirations but because of how unappealing—how much smaller and more anxious and more spiteful—those desires have made them. That assessment is easy, less automatic than autonomic. It's the sort of decision that gets made in the same part of your brain that tells you not to eat a hot dog you see lying on the sidewalk.
posted by beerbudget at 1:59 PM on August 8 [9 favorites]
As has been mentioned by armeowda already in an earlier thread, the problem with
'“...Creepy” and “gross” is they have a subtext of “your behavior is upsetting me.” That’s what these gross creeps live for. That’s why neither of those words will work against them.'
"Weird" works. "Ick" and "strange" might work too.
I didn't see anyone mention this line from Harris' introduction of Gov. Walz at the Philadelphia rally:
"When we compare his resume to Trump's running mate... some will say that it's like a matchup between the varsity team and the JV squad."
JV squad might have some legs.
posted by MtDewd at 2:20 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]
'“...Creepy” and “gross” is they have a subtext of “your behavior is upsetting me.” That’s what these gross creeps live for. That’s why neither of those words will work against them.'
"Weird" works. "Ick" and "strange" might work too.
I didn't see anyone mention this line from Harris' introduction of Gov. Walz at the Philadelphia rally:
"When we compare his resume to Trump's running mate... some will say that it's like a matchup between the varsity team and the JV squad."
JV squad might have some legs.
posted by MtDewd at 2:20 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]
New York Times sums up the "press conference." lol
The comments are pretty good.
posted by yyz at 3:06 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]
The comments are pretty good.
posted by yyz at 3:06 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]
Captain Awkward chimes in on the weird dialogue.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:28 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:28 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]
The comments are pretty good.
Oh my goodness yes they are, yyz.
posted by ishmael at 4:18 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]
Oh my goodness yes they are, yyz.
posted by ishmael at 4:18 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]
The comments are pretty good.
What is the media equivalent of a Nancy Pelosi to talk NYTimes into handing over the reins to real journalists?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:24 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]
What is the media equivalent of a Nancy Pelosi to talk NYTimes into handing over the reins to real journalists?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:24 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]
Here's the actual (pretty scathing) NYTimes article reporting on the news conference: Trump Tries to Wrestle Back Attention at Mar-a-Lago News Conference. (Anything earlier has been live-blog excerpts, I believe.)
posted by nobody at 4:50 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]
posted by nobody at 4:50 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]
Oh, I should have included an excerpt. For example:
When asked if he would direct the Food and Drug Administration to revoke access to abortion pills, he seemed not to understand the question and provided an incoherent answer that did not address it.posted by nobody at 4:53 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]
“So, you can do things that will be, would supplement, absolutely. And those things are pretty open and humane,” Mr. Trump said. “But you have to be able to have a vote. And all I want to do is give everybody a vote. And the votes are taking place right now as we speak.”
he seemed not to understand the question and provided an incoherent answer that did not address it.
Reminds me of Chevy Chase giving a press conference in Spies Like Us. Of course, that was funny. This is just pathetic with a large side of infuriating.
Emmett Fitz-Hume: “Well, of course, their requests for subsidies was not Paraguayan in and of it is as it were the United States government would never have if the president, our president, had not and as far as I know that's the way it will always be. Is that clear?”
posted by Servo5678 at 6:34 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]
Reminds me of Chevy Chase giving a press conference in Spies Like Us. Of course, that was funny. This is just pathetic with a large side of infuriating.
Emmett Fitz-Hume: “Well, of course, their requests for subsidies was not Paraguayan in and of it is as it were the United States government would never have if the president, our president, had not and as far as I know that's the way it will always be. Is that clear?”
posted by Servo5678 at 6:34 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]
When I go counterprotesting I deberately dress in my most boring business casual clothes. The idea being to use the desire for conformity in the folks I'm counter-protesting and signal that "normal" people disagree with them. I suspect this is not very effective, but eh, worth a try. Likewise calling Trump and Vance weird doesn't have to be super effective to be worth doing.
posted by mscibing at 6:36 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]
posted by mscibing at 6:36 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]
That Time Trump Nearly Died in a Helicopter Crash? Didn’t Happen.
There was only one problem with the story. Or maybe two. Or maybe three.posted by kirkaracha at 6:52 PM on August 8 [9 favorites]
It wasn’t the famous former San Francisco mayor on the helicopter flight at all. It was Gov. Jerry Brown, the former governor of California, who bears little resemblance to Willie Brown.
There was also no emergency landing, and the helicopter’s passengers were never in any danger at all, according to Gov. Gavin Newsom, who was also on the flight.
Jerry Brown, who left office in January 2019, said through a spokesman, “There was no emergency landing and no discussion of Kamala Harris.”
“I call complete B.S.,” Mr. Newsom said, laughing out loud.
I'm off enough to remember when mocking Trump for his weird hair was de riguer. We should have picked the monkey.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:18 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:18 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]
I need to push back on a nuance. There aren't two types of weird; there are two types of reaction to being called weird.
Take the couch fucking. If Vance had reacted like a proper weirdo and laughed and said "no not that but you know, teenage boys sometimes try weird things out, it's all usually harmless," the whole thing would have fizzled immediately.
I think of Sam the Eagle, popping out of his window to yell at the other Muppets, "You are all *weirdos*," to uproarious laughter. Because the Muppets all know they are weirdos and they embrace it. And they also know something else, something the Sams of the world cannot ever know, a fact that is as true as it is corrosive to the foundation of Sam's entire world:
Sam is a weirdo, too.
posted by Scattercat at 3:07 AM on August 9 [16 favorites]
Take the couch fucking. If Vance had reacted like a proper weirdo and laughed and said "no not that but you know, teenage boys sometimes try weird things out, it's all usually harmless," the whole thing would have fizzled immediately.
I think of Sam the Eagle, popping out of his window to yell at the other Muppets, "You are all *weirdos*," to uproarious laughter. Because the Muppets all know they are weirdos and they embrace it. And they also know something else, something the Sams of the world cannot ever know, a fact that is as true as it is corrosive to the foundation of Sam's entire world:
Sam is a weirdo, too.
posted by Scattercat at 3:07 AM on August 9 [16 favorites]
My first association is the countercultural “weird,” as in “when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.” Unfortunately, it occurs to me that that the inventor of that phase turned into an abusive, violent, paranoid gun nut later in life, which is uncomfortably on-brand for the current US right wing.
posted by mubba at 8:58 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
posted by mubba at 8:58 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
NYT apparently noped out on covering the weird event in print altogether?
posted by Artw at 11:10 AM on August 9
posted by Artw at 11:10 AM on August 9
"Embarrassing" is good, I think. "You're embarrassing yourself. I'm embarrassed for you," feels pretty savage to me.
posted by longtime_lurker at 2:18 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]
posted by longtime_lurker at 2:18 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]
If I was the NYT, which is to say so committed to normalizing Trump that it's almost pathological, I'd want to nope out of his events too.
Hell, Trump's campaign managers don't want ANYONE to cover his events. Trump is one of those candidates who does better the less he's exposed to the public.
They, both Trump's direct campaign staff and his indirect staff with all the news agencies, are in a nasty situation and I can't say I feel the slightest sympathy for them. The candidate is visibly falling apart, and the narrative they constructed about Biden falling apart has primed the public to see Trump's disintegration. The candidate was never wildly popular outside his own 25%ish of the population. And even being shot wasn't enough to give him any real boost.
Now, this does bring up the question of how much value there is in actual in person candidate speaking events. In the old days it was the only real way to get the message out, but today not so much. A smarter Trump campaign team would be doubling down on the stuff that isn't Trump out there talking, knocking on doors, registering voters, ads, etc. But they seem to have been dismantling the canvassing part of their campaign and maybe I'm just not being targeted but I haven't seen any Trump ads on my news feeds.
posted by sotonohito at 2:22 PM on August 9 [5 favorites]
Hell, Trump's campaign managers don't want ANYONE to cover his events. Trump is one of those candidates who does better the less he's exposed to the public.
They, both Trump's direct campaign staff and his indirect staff with all the news agencies, are in a nasty situation and I can't say I feel the slightest sympathy for them. The candidate is visibly falling apart, and the narrative they constructed about Biden falling apart has primed the public to see Trump's disintegration. The candidate was never wildly popular outside his own 25%ish of the population. And even being shot wasn't enough to give him any real boost.
Now, this does bring up the question of how much value there is in actual in person candidate speaking events. In the old days it was the only real way to get the message out, but today not so much. A smarter Trump campaign team would be doubling down on the stuff that isn't Trump out there talking, knocking on doors, registering voters, ads, etc. But they seem to have been dismantling the canvassing part of their campaign and maybe I'm just not being targeted but I haven't seen any Trump ads on my news feeds.
posted by sotonohito at 2:22 PM on August 9 [5 favorites]
longtime_lurker Or, as the kids say these days, cringe.
"Ugh, Trump's talking again, that so cringe."
posted by sotonohito at 2:23 PM on August 9
"Ugh, Trump's talking again, that so cringe."
posted by sotonohito at 2:23 PM on August 9
Even a smarter campaign team wouldn't be able to do much for the ground game at this point, because Trump's people at the RNC fired the staffers who would have run it, way back in March, and outsourced the GOTV effort to his grifter buddies at Turning Point USA. Daily Kos, via darkstar in the other thread.
posted by longtime_lurker at 2:51 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
posted by longtime_lurker at 2:51 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
Or maybe just go full Zalgo and call them w̶̖̹̽͐e̶̯͔̋i̴͇̐r̸̞̆d̴͔̃.
Call them w̶̖̹̽͐e̶̯͔̋i̴͇̐r̸̞̆d. Never go full Zalgo.
posted by otherchaz at 3:30 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]
Call them w̶̖̹̽͐e̶̯͔̋i̴͇̐r̸̞̆d. Never go full Zalgo.
posted by otherchaz at 3:30 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]
seems like the right is trying to counter the weird label by leaning hard into the "tampon Tim" label
Tampon Tim: perfect for stopping a red wave.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:01 PM on August 9 [16 favorites]
Tampon Tim: perfect for stopping a red wave.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:01 PM on August 9 [16 favorites]
Trump is one of those candidates who does better the less he's exposed to the public.
This seems like... The opposite of how his political career has worked, to me.
posted by biogeo at 8:07 PM on August 9 [4 favorites]
Hell, not just his political career, for that matter. Literally the only skill the man has is constantly making himself the center of attention and sucking up all the oxygen so nothing else can live, and that was enough to let him convert a political party into a personality cult and carry him to the presidency. That plus the Republican base's joy at someone finally telling them they're allowed to be as hateful and vicious in public as they've always wanted to be, of course.
posted by biogeo at 8:14 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 8:14 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
Yeah, but that was 8 years ago when he was up and coming and actually had energy and some vim and vigor.
Today? Trump schlumping and rambling so incoherently that even the Republicans notice? Trump so boring to his fans that they leave early? That's not a candidate you want out in front.
8 years ago, sure, his campaign was built entirely on rallies and selling himself. But his new has worn off, he's old, tired, and showing cognitive decline so visibly it's hard for even his followers to deny. People still support him because white supremacy, but the sort of manic worship he had back in his first run seems to be lacking.
I live in Texas and the number of trucks bedecked in Trump is about the same as it was this time last year. His cultists are losing interest. He's become boring, and that's the one thing an entertainer never wants.
posted by sotonohito at 9:15 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
Today? Trump schlumping and rambling so incoherently that even the Republicans notice? Trump so boring to his fans that they leave early? That's not a candidate you want out in front.
8 years ago, sure, his campaign was built entirely on rallies and selling himself. But his new has worn off, he's old, tired, and showing cognitive decline so visibly it's hard for even his followers to deny. People still support him because white supremacy, but the sort of manic worship he had back in his first run seems to be lacking.
I live in Texas and the number of trucks bedecked in Trump is about the same as it was this time last year. His cultists are losing interest. He's become boring, and that's the one thing an entertainer never wants.
posted by sotonohito at 9:15 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
Trump calls Walz ‘freakish,’ stepping up attacks on Dem ticket
“He’s very freakish,” Trump said during a meandering speech in Montana. “If Comrade Walz and Comrade [Kamala] Harris win this November, the people cheering will be the pink-haired Marxists, the looters, the perverts, the flag burners, Hamas supporters, drug dealers, gun grabbers and human traffickers.” [And Methodists.]posted by kirkaracha at 12:04 PM on August 10 [5 favorites]
...
“We’re not weird,” Trump said. “We’re the opposite of weird. They’re weird.”
Trump has supports with signs that say:
posted by kirkaracha at 12:10 PM on August 10 [3 favorites]
"LYIN' KAMALA" is a light font weight and size so all you see is "YOU'RE FIRED."LYIN' KAMALA
YOU'RE FIRED
posted by kirkaracha at 12:10 PM on August 10 [3 favorites]
"LYIN' KAMALA" is a light font weight and size so all you see is "YOU'RE FIRED."
I see that the Veep-ification of this election season continues apace.
posted by mhum at 5:09 PM on August 10 [3 favorites]
I see that the Veep-ification of this election season continues apace.
posted by mhum at 5:09 PM on August 10 [3 favorites]
"the people cheering will be the pink-haired Marxists"
What a weirdo.
posted by Reverend John at 5:40 PM on August 10 [3 favorites]
What a weirdo.
posted by Reverend John at 5:40 PM on August 10 [3 favorites]
Amazing that that was 13 years ago...
Damned Socialists
Let's fucking go
posted by Windopaene at 9:08 PM on August 10 [1 favorite]
Damned Socialists
Let's fucking go
posted by Windopaene at 9:08 PM on August 10 [1 favorite]
What a weirdo.
I don't know if this is reflective of something or just a random internet moment. On Facebook the other day, I dropped an unpopular (for the thread in question) political position which earned a surprising number of likes, but also one sorta ugly and foolish ATTACK (including a gif). To which I responded, "Now you're just being weird."
Later on, I discovered, he'd deleted his comment. My takeaway. "Weird" just might be working.
posted by philip-random at 10:58 PM on August 10 [11 favorites]
I don't know if this is reflective of something or just a random internet moment. On Facebook the other day, I dropped an unpopular (for the thread in question) political position which earned a surprising number of likes, but also one sorta ugly and foolish ATTACK (including a gif). To which I responded, "Now you're just being weird."
Later on, I discovered, he'd deleted his comment. My takeaway. "Weird" just might be working.
posted by philip-random at 10:58 PM on August 10 [11 favorites]
JD Vance hits out at ‘schoolyard bully’ attacks claiming he is ‘weird’
Cam dish it, absolutely can’t take it.
posted by Artw at 12:28 PM on August 11 [1 favorite]
Cam dish it, absolutely can’t take it.
posted by Artw at 12:28 PM on August 11 [1 favorite]
If he's only now starting to see a need to push back against "weird", imagine the look on his face once he eventually figures out who all the couchfucking chatter is about.
posted by flabdablet at 1:12 PM on August 11
posted by flabdablet at 1:12 PM on August 11
You know, the more he says he's not weird I believe him.
As if.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:22 PM on August 11 [1 favorite]
As if.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:22 PM on August 11 [1 favorite]
JD Vance, the craven wackado lickspittle. He makes Dan Quayle look Mt. Rushmore worthy in comparison.
posted by y2karl at 4:32 PM on August 11
posted by y2karl at 4:32 PM on August 11
X post that shows Mike Johnson managing to point at Trump when talking about criminals
posted by velvet_n_purrs at 5:59 PM on August 11 [3 favorites]
posted by velvet_n_purrs at 5:59 PM on August 11 [3 favorites]
new: i have obtained a photo of jd vance in drag while at yale law school
A spokesperson for the Republican vice presidential pick did not deny the photo's authenticity when approached by the Daily Beast, and did not offer any further comment
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:48 PM on August 11 [2 favorites]
A spokesperson for the Republican vice presidential pick did not deny the photo's authenticity when approached by the Daily Beast, and did not offer any further comment
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:48 PM on August 11 [2 favorites]
it was bound to happen eventually
posted by philip-random at 11:00 PM on August 11 [3 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 11:00 PM on August 11 [3 favorites]
Dressing up in drag isn't weird, of course. It is hating on drag queens, drag kings, queer folks of all types, banning books, etc. shit that is fucking weird.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:09 AM on August 12 [9 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 3:09 AM on August 12 [9 favorites]
Why didn't all this come out when he was running for Ohio senate?
posted by maggiemaggie at 3:58 AM on August 12
posted by maggiemaggie at 3:58 AM on August 12
Because who the fuck cares about Ohio senate isn’t exactly right, but let us just say it’s not as contested a race.
posted by corb at 4:47 AM on August 12 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 4:47 AM on August 12 [2 favorites]
The primary was basically a “who can be weirder?” contest between him and Josh Mandel, who had the innate advantage of being an immensely stupid man but Vance won by getting the Trump endorsement. Then he ran against Tim Ryan who’s pretty normie and I guess won on a mix of Thiel money and Biden discontent.
posted by Artw at 6:34 AM on August 12 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:34 AM on August 12 [1 favorite]
Dressing up in drag isn't weird, of course
Yes, just to be clear, this was posted by a prominent gay Twitter user who regularly defends trans rights and attacks transphobes. The issues highlighted here are hypocrisy and cruelty by Republicans (and, perhaps, the inability of the media to report on said matters, in that it had to be bypassed here).
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:40 AM on August 12 [2 favorites]
Yes, just to be clear, this was posted by a prominent gay Twitter user who regularly defends trans rights and attacks transphobes. The issues highlighted here are hypocrisy and cruelty by Republicans (and, perhaps, the inability of the media to report on said matters, in that it had to be bypassed here).
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:40 AM on August 12 [2 favorites]
Why didn't all this come out when he was running for Ohio senate?
Maybe his college acquaintances fear Trump in a way that they didn't fear Vance's run for the Senate?
posted by ryanrs at 1:09 PM on August 13
Maybe his college acquaintances fear Trump in a way that they didn't fear Vance's run for the Senate?
posted by ryanrs at 1:09 PM on August 13
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Well, this fails to consider the nuances of political history and dialectic struggle. In this 82,000 word essay, I will show that...
posted by AlSweigart at 10:34 AM on August 7 [76 favorites]