Skiing at a breaking point

January 5, 2025 3:54 PM

The Park City Professional Ski Patrol Association (PCPSPA) is currently on an unfair labor practices strike at Park City Mountain Resort (PCMR), the largest ski resort in the US. It has resulted in significant disruption. People are upset, the lines are long, terrain is limited, and Park City’s owner, Vail Resorts, is getting a beating in the markets.

It’s a mess. But the impact of the strike is just one of several factors (without even getting into climate change) driving a crisis in skiing. Peak Rankings has published an excellent primer video of what is going on in Utah - much of which is also repeating across ski areas in North America.

posted by inflatablekiwi (42 comments total)

I'm picturing something like the Ludlow coal strikes, where eventually Trump calls in the muscle to force this group back into service to make sure the ski lifts keep turning for recreation starved techbros of the new order.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 4:01 PM on January 5 [5 favorites]

I am a Park City local. I am a Epic Pass holder (chose your poison Ikon or Epic), but have not crossed the picket line to ski PCMR over the holidays, and have donated to the PCPSPA’s fighting fund. Living in a ski town is amazing - and Vail Resorts are a fucking blight on this community. Seeing them getting their asses handed to them by a ragtag small bunch of ski patrollers has been inspiring.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:01 PM on January 5 [40 favorites]

Brian Higgins for the Salt Lake Tribune: When I broke my leg and needed ski patrol, I was thinking about the shareholders
By forcing ski patrol to make a rescue using expensive man hours, would I eliminate the chance at a profitable day for the resort?

posted by lalochezia at 4:09 PM on January 5 [15 favorites]

Late stage capitalism destroys things late stage capitalists enjoy, news at 11.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:16 PM on January 5 [12 favorites]

Also - in case you are wondering the ski patrol dogs are also on strike. Photos of Dolly, one of the PCMR ski patrol dogs.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:46 PM on January 5 [9 favorites]

I was working a Holiday Party in Broomfield and chatting with a guest that worked in the office building. We were remarking on the wonderful view of the Rocky Mountains. "Except you can't see the biggest mountain, the Vail office building is in the way". And sure enough, emblazen on the building's exterior, facing HWY36 was the corporate logo.

Anyways, no one likes Vail.
posted by alex_skazat at 4:48 PM on January 5 [6 favorites]

At $275 a day for a lift ticket, I'm guessing that many of the people out on the slopes are disconnected from the concept of a labor union.
posted by milnak at 4:49 PM on January 5 [12 favorites]

Dolly looks like a good girl.

#resist Dolly

Back in like 1985-6. I tried to get a job at Breckenridge. They said, "No". Would have ended up in a different life for me I think.

Mind is boggled by Park City being the largest Ski Area in America...
posted by Windopaene at 4:53 PM on January 5 [3 favorites]

At $275 a day for a lift ticket, I'm guessing that many of the people out on the slopes are disconnected from the concept of a labor union.

There's a long story about how Ikon and Epic (Vail) made buying their respective passes before the season starts as a hedge against snowfall - providing people who ski for more than 10 days/season an incredibly cheap experience, and the knockon crowding, labor and environmental issues, as well as driving small ski hills out of business - but this thread is not the place for it.
posted by lalochezia at 5:06 PM on January 5 [9 favorites]

Solidarity forever.
posted by mhoye at 5:22 PM on January 5 [6 favorites]

At $275 a day for a lift ticket, I'm guessing that many of the people out on the slopes are disconnected from the concept of a labor union.

PCMR’s peak day rate this year is $328 +tax. But lalochezia is right - the mega-passes drop that day rate down significantly ( both a blessing and very much the curse of skiing)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:24 PM on January 5 [2 favorites]

but this thread is not the place for it.

Idk, seems like good context to me.Eg in theory if there were an actual competitive market for ski patrol labor, one company wouldn't be able to be so abusive. But there seemingly isn't, and this kind of story is one of the main things I come to the blue for! So please do tell, if you have the time.
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:35 PM on January 5 [4 favorites]

The questions that really should be discussed about Vail Resorts are where the profits are going? What does the CEO rake in each year? How about the rest of the c-suite execs? Does the company engage in stock buybacks? Etc, etc.

Vulture capitalism will just keep going unless we expose these aspects to the daylight.
posted by zardoz at 5:54 PM on January 5 [2 favorites]

Mind is boggled by Park City being the largest Ski Area in America...

PCMR is around 7300 acres - which is only slightly less than the largest 15 ski resorts in Vermont combined if my math is right. And then Deer Valley with the new Deer Valley East/Mayflower extension (when fully opened) adds 6000+ acres. There is something like 30k skiable acres of resorts in the wider PC, Cottonwoods, Powmow/Snowbasin area within 45-60 mins of SLC airport. Which is why PC is at the epicenter of this. The scale brings all the problems out.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:05 PM on January 5 [2 favorites]

I think if you combined Aspen, that would be a lot. And Breckenridge has become huge...

Never skied at Park City though
posted by Windopaene at 6:12 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]

With respect to the stock price, only a lunatic would invest in skiing anywhere south of the uppermost states, which is not Utah.

…having said that, fuck VR and their CEO.
posted by aramaic at 7:02 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]

Not the best terrain/snow but the city itself is neat, makes more sense for visitors than locals. All the more reason not to cross the picket line.
posted by sinfony at 7:06 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]

And Breckenridge has become huge...

Also owned by Vail. Along with Keystone and Crested Butte in Colorado, and Heavenly, Kirkwood and Northstar in California.
posted by LionIndex at 7:14 PM on January 5 [2 favorites]

And Alterra Owns everything big in Colorado and California not owned by Vail. But even the family owned places can be $200 for a lift tickets these days
posted by CostcoCultist at 7:27 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]

Idk, seems like good context to me

In recent years, the business model switched to pushing to sell as many season passes as possible, particularly by raising day ticket prices ($700 for a season pass, or $250 for a day ticket). Season passes have gotten cheaper if you correct for inflation.

This results in large crowds which wouldn't be a bad thing except Vail has also been nickel and diming their employees who can't afford to rent a room near the resorts. Lifts don't open as quickly after a storm, lifts are understaffed, and trails don't get groomed.
posted by just.good.enough at 8:05 PM on January 5 [3 favorites]

"While specific numbers weren’t given for 2023-24, the 4% increase likely brings Vail Resorts’ total number of pre-purchased passes to about 2.4 million. Last year Vail Resorts announced it had sold 2.3 million passes. Those 2022 numbers represented a 6% increase over 2021, and an 86% increase over 2019 numbers."

https://www.vaildaily.com/news/epic-pass-sales-continue-to-climb-for-vail-resorts/
posted by just.good.enough at 8:12 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]

Never have skied at Vail. Looks like a nice mountain though. Only gone through there in the summer.

But capitalism will out.

Think they have bought a bunch of places here in the PNW.

$200+ lift tickets just seem insane to me.
What family can afford that every day for a three night vacation?

We used to go to Keystone when I was a kid, and Breckenridge, and Crested Butte...
And now, no...

Four kids, two adults, pretty much $1200 a day? No...
posted by Windopaene at 9:00 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]

Think they have bought a bunch of places here in the PNW.

Yeah, they own Whistler/Blackcomb at least. It wasn’t super cheap when I moved here 20 odd years ago but now it’s shockingly unaffordable. Makes sense, of course, it’s accessible enough from Vancouver/Seattle that they could probably keep the place at capacity w/ tech multimillionaires alone.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 10:46 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]

They've been buying places in the Northeast too (RIP Sunapee & Okemo) and the resulting enshittification has been miserable. Not that we had any snow to ride on anyway the last few years but the increased prices, reduced discount days, getting rid of halfday tickets have all made the whole experience much less appealing. I remember getting multi-mountain college season passes for under $300, that would get you two days at some of these resorts now.
posted by Peccable at 10:57 PM on January 5 [2 favorites]

Think they have bought a bunch of places here in the PNW.

WA skiers demanding action as 'rampant' thefts plague Stevens Pass resort

Skiers and riders at Stevens Pass Ski Resort are voicing concerns over a rise in equipment theft at the property, with many accusing the owner, Vail Resorts, of failing to take sufficient action
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:12 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]

From 2021-22 season:

A bumpy run at Stevens Pass

If Stevens Pass Ski Area reopens as planned this week after the extended, avalanche-related closure of Highway 2, owner Vail Resorts will be digging out from more than just heavy snowfall.

Nearly one month into the ski season, customer complaints have reached a fever pitch as over half of the mountain remains closed due to inadequate staffing, which has led to unplowed parking lots, long lift lines and bare-bones amenities.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:27 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]

Skiers and riders at Stevens Pass Ski Resort are voicing concerns over a rise in equipment theft at the property,

I’ve always wondered why this doesn’t happen more often. You can just park and walk into a ski village, covering your face doesn’t make you stand out, and there’s a ton of equipment with a nontrivial resale value just leaning against racks. The risk/reward seems to favor it. Is this a “crime don’t climb” thing?

Regardless, I’m happy to chip in here as someone who is proudly priced out of snow sports. I was an Epic Pass holder for a number of years, but the experience has gotten worse, the crowds have gotten worse, the prices have gotten insanely higher, and frankly I’ve gotten old enough that when I take a fall it fucking hurts. At some point it occurred to me that not only was the price I was paying not equal to the fun I was having, but that the whole business just seems grotesquely unsustainable. I get the same “WTF is anybody doing here” feeling I got while watching people frantically buy houses they couldn’t afford on a zero-down five-year ARM with no inspection contingency in 2006.
posted by gelfin at 2:17 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]

A golden beacon: The life and death of the Berthoud Pass ski area, Sky-Hi News, Sawyer D’Argonne, Dec 21 2017:

In the 1930s and 40s, the Berthoud Pass ski area was the place to be. Thousands of patrons would strap into their wooden skis and venture to the pass every day to shred between the trees and down the mountain. For a brief speck in time Berthoud Pass was king, a golden beacon calling to skiers and snowboarders alike who were just discovering the joys of downhill skiing. A time when motorists could spot the lifts coming up Highway 40, and would know they were almost home.

Of all the lost ski areas in Colorado, Berthoud Pass is perhaps the most significant.
posted by cenoxo at 6:02 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]

YouTube > Berthoud Pass - The Lost Resorts, Episode 10 (ft. SRG Skiing).
posted by cenoxo at 6:51 AM on January 6

WP > Berthoud Pass - Mountain pass in the state of Colorado.
(Apologies for not combining these links in one comment.)
posted by cenoxo at 7:04 AM on January 6

I solved the high lift ticket prices the easy way: I got old. Senior season passes at Loveland, the closest ski area to Denver, are $199. 70+

Looking forward to visiting Park City this weekend. Not for the skiing, though. For the opposite: scuba diving. Nearby Utah Crater is the only warm water scuba diving destination in the continental U.S.
posted by kozad at 8:36 AM on January 6 [2 favorites]

I’ve always wondered why this doesn’t happen more often. You can just park and walk into a ski village, covering your face doesn’t make you stand out, and there’s a ton of equipment with a nontrivial resale value just leaning against racks. The risk/reward seems to favor it.

I've often wondered about that too, maybe a mix of you got to have a bit of money to get there, look the part and you still run the risk of bumping into the angry owner as you do the deed. Also you've got to fence those at some point, seems like you won't get much value for them if you try to do it in bulk.

But... skilocks are cheap, small & easy to carry in your pocket, no reason not to have one.

And concerning the whole situation, I hope this trend of Vail/Alterra buying all resorts and forcing you on a season pass with ridiculous ticket prices doesn't make it too far here in eastern Canada. It's already expensive enough, but compared to what I see in the US, I'm like "yep we're good".

I still can't figure out how they expect to renew their pool of customers, you don't jump into an activity when it starts a 250$ per day + equipment.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:46 AM on January 6

My experience is that the economics of local skiing and the economics of vacation skiing are completely different.

Like, yes, Whistler passes are like $300 a day, but seasons passes only cost you like 4 days worth of day passes, so every day over 4 days that you ski brings your per day price down. Or you can pre-buy block passes good for X days of skiing during a season and have them be cheaper than buying lift tickets after the season starts. And kids passes and snow school tend to run much, much cheaper when bought in advance -- up to 5th grade, local kids can ski free five days a year at Whistler. It is when they know you packed your kids onto an airplane and are putting them up in a hotel that things get expensive because they know if you'll pay that, you'll also pay $200 a day to get them on the hill with you.

I am not in any way arguing that those things are cheap, but relative to, say, putting your kid in hockey, they aren't crazy-ass expensive, either. They are accessible to approximately the same milieu of professional families.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:28 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]

I’m going to weigh in with a different perspective. I work for Vail as an instructor. It’s been a really interesting ride. I started during the pandemic. During the 20/21 season staffing became a super contentious issue as Vail oversold season passes and could not hire enough staff. Complaints were epic (see what I did there). The following year Vail said they were re-focusing on employees and changed all positions to a starting $20 an hour. They also offer a lot of benefits to seasonal part-time employees including mental health and scholarships. They invest a lot into training and give pay bumps for certifications.
All that being said I really don’t understand why the patrol situation hasn’t been resolved. I’m curious what their (Vail) stance is and I totally support the patrollers. From what I understand it’s not about the $2 increase but about OT and health stuff.

The ski industry is a mess in the US and Vail isn’t the only bad player with pricing. If you want to ski and not support the big companies you can ski independent resorts, or better yet get an Indy Pass which is under $300 and gives you two days at around 300 independent resorts.

I like to say skiing has never been more expensive or cheaper. While PC and others have hit the $300 window price, very few people pay that. It’s all about season passes now which go for between $600-$1000, $200 if you’re military. 20 years ago day prices were cheaper but season passes cost about the same. If you ski a lot the season pass is a no brainer. Each company wants to lock you into their ecosystem which means buying small feeder resorts, stores, hotels etc etc.

Skiing is expensive, it always has been. If you want to ski for free the backcountry is calling and is amazing but will always take a lot of effort. Cross country is much cheaper but also getting more expensive.

If you want to do a deep dive into the really crazy stuff look at the rise of private ski resorts like Yellowstone Club and parts of Deer Valley. That’s where the wealthy, not the rich, go skiing.
posted by misterpatrick at 11:10 AM on January 6 [7 favorites]

We have skied at Mt. Snow in VT for the past ~11 years. Vail’s takeover has made season passes super cheap and allowed access to more resorts in the region, out West, and Europe.

Vail invested in two new lifts, which were needed, but they have continued to nickel-and-dime on operations. Lifts are open fewer hours, subject to more wind/ice holds, snowmaking is reduced, and freeski park buildup is minimal. Restaurants and lodges are understaffed and operate fewer hours. This is most noticeable when conditions should be ideal; Vail does not prep lifts early in the morning before scheduled opening times, so snowfall delays openings due to icing. Previously, crews started lifts early to ensure on-time openings, and main lift chairs were stored in an attached barn overnight to protect them from storms. This process took about 30 minutes at closing and again in the morning. Now, chairs remain exposed overnight, leading to opening delays of three hours or more.

Housing for seasonal workers is a major problem. Even most rundown properties were bought during COVID, reducing inventory. Vail asks property owners to join their “preferred” provider list, but this status is meaningless since Vail doesn’t sign rental agreements. What Vail does is cut the temp workers’ hours earlier and more aggressively in the season and thus make them riskier tenants. Local social media used to have postings from the South American workforce seeking odd jobs in March, but now these appear in January as workers struggle to cover rent and groceries.

Vail Resorts operates Mt. Snow on Vermont State Forest land, as it does its other Vermont resorts. While I don’t know the exact terms of the lease or license, it’s presumably intended to promote outdoor recreation, tourism, and related tax revenues and economic benefits. However, Vail’s business model focuses on selling as many season passes as possible while discouraging actual visits. Cheap season passes paired with sky-high day ticket prices have significantly reduced mountain visits. Over the past two weeks, skier numbers at Mt. Snow appear to be down 40% from last year. Season pass holders are frustrated with the declining service and experience, while day tickets are prohibitively expensive for families. For a family of four, a weekend visit costs a minimum of ~$1,500, even with their own equipment and free lodging and food at our place.

Vail is turning much of Vermont into a wasteland. Property prices will drop, but there will be no jobs for permanent or seasonal workers. Skiing as a family or generational activity is at risk of disappearing, as fewer new people are introduced to the sport.
posted by zeikka at 12:35 PM on January 6 [4 favorites]

Cross country is much cheaper but also getting more expensive.

All it needs is snow, a path through the trees and a guy willing to run a snowmobile with the groomer behind it. You can add things like a lodge and other services, but at it's core it's very simple, and can be offered at a very low cost anywhere you have enough nature and snow.

Compared to operating a mountain with snow guns, multiple lifts, big ass groomers, patrol, etc.. it's so much simpler.

The equipment for cross country skiing is also pretty cheap.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:02 PM on January 6

All it needs is snow, a path through the trees and a guy willing to run a snowmobile with the groomer behind it.

I’m in the Twin Cities and our problem now is the second year with no snow. So many of the places you can ski make snow. This, and grooming, cost money. Season pass at park systems for man made snow is around $90. Natural snow around $30. That’s per park or county system. State pass for state parks and trails is $30. Birkie trail is $50. If you’re an avid XC skier it adds up quickly. Still cheaper than downhill!
posted by misterpatrick at 1:58 PM on January 6

Yeah the snow thing is becoming a big issue. I've never been at an XC ski place with snow guns but that's probably because it's never been necessary before, and before I looked it up after your comment I saw there's a few places in the province who started doing this.

I'm in Montreal, and the number of days where the tracks are in good conditions is diminishing each year. We're in January and there's barely any snow.....
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:14 PM on January 6

I ski at a small, family-owned resort that's 85 minutes from my home. It has 555 skiable acres and a vertical of 1563 feet which includes a trail that's purportedly the steepest resort run in the world. The most expensive lift ticket on the current calendar is this Saturday at $55. Weekdays in late February are just $15. It's good skiing and the snowpack is well above average.
posted by neuron at 2:32 PM on January 6 [2 favorites]

I would think climate change, and the lack of snow is going to fuck over Vail more than this strike.

But good for them.
None of the lift loaders, and staff can afford to live in any of these ski towns anymore.

I was in Big Sky a few years ago, in the summer. Heading there on my way to Yellowstone, saw a car behind me. Saw the woman driving the car. It's a long way from I-90 to Big Sky. She rode my tail the whole way.

I had gotten a hotel room, which turned out to be a new place that was just having their grand opening. Free drinks and food!

And who was working at the food/bar? The woman who had driven 50 miles or so behind me for a likely minimum wage gig...
posted by Windopaene at 8:35 PM on January 6

It will be interesting to see what pressure the management will be under, when the Sundance Film Festival kicks off in two weeks. Which actor or indie director wants to be photographed crossing a picket line?

Ah well, the festival's probably moving to Boulder in a few years.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 4:40 PM on January 7

The strike was settled yesterday.
posted by misterpatrick at 11:14 AM on January 9 [1 favorite]