fighting for reelection

July 31, 2003 2:19 PM

U.S. Soldiers are killing themselves amid the weariness of Iraq. It would be pleasant to get an entire month away.
posted by four panels (33 comments total)

Bush to Stay at Texas Ranch a Month

relevance?
posted by cohappy at 2:32 PM on July 31, 2003

I believe the relevance is:

Bush (or the people working his strings, rather) scraped together every piece of propaganda he could find to put those soldiers there on the ground, in hostile territory, telling them that they would be welcomed with cheers, flowers, and open arms, and would be home before they knew it.

Now they are shot at constantly and women and children aid their attackers. It's over 100 degrees most days, their letters home are censored to remove any disparaging remarks about the government, and a whole lot of people back home think that they're not accomplishing anything, and were sent there for political ideologies, backed by lies.

Bush is playing golf, and saying "bring it on" to the terrorists when he's gloating on TV.

Did that help?
posted by zekinskia at 2:41 PM on July 31, 2003

relevance?

I think four panels was juxtaposing the intensely difficult job faced by the underpaid soldiers in Iraq, against the very generous, pampered vacation time being enjoyed by your wealthy, military-duty-shirking President.

relevant enough?
posted by stonerose at 2:42 PM on July 31, 2003

mmmmmyeah. zekinskia explained the relevance better.
posted by stonerose at 2:43 PM on July 31, 2003

How would you like it spelled out? Diagrams? Powerpoint presentation? Sock puppets?
posted by keswick at 2:43 PM on July 31, 2003

A month away for W, taking breaks to raise money -- not
to attend even one of the funerals for the ones killed abroad during a conflict he called.
posted by NewBornHippy at 2:44 PM on July 31, 2003

Bush (or the people working his strings, rather) scraped together every piece of propaganda he could find to put those soldiers there on the ground, in hostile territory

Agree to this point.

telling them that they would be welcomed with cheers, flowers, and open arms, and would be home before they knew it.

Never once heard that.

I don't think the war is justifiable and I hate how Bush went about it. That said, I don't find Bush's current actions relevant to the idea that Amerian soldiers are comitting suicide.
posted by cohappy at 2:53 PM on July 31, 2003

Unless you're spouting some mystical mumbo-jumbo about the fact that we shouldn't be in the war in the first place justifies the apparent ennui of our soldiers.
posted by cohappy at 2:54 PM on July 31, 2003

American soldiers are committing suicide.
Whom? that is an open statement. How many try this in boot camp every year. Anyone work with a co-worker that tried committing suicide at work? These people have more problems than their physical surroundings.
posted by thomcatspike at 3:04 PM on July 31, 2003

"The senior officer, who asked not to be named, said that among 53 US military non-combat deaths since May 1, when the war was declared effectively over, were "probable" suicides as well as a large number of road accidents."


Huh? Is this grammatically correct?
posted by EmoChild at 3:06 PM on July 31, 2003

My favorite part of the Newsday article is the demonstration of new press secretary Scott McClellan's easy transition into the old Fleischer spin cycle:

"The president looks forward to traveling throughout the heartland to highlight his initiatives to preserve our natural resources and protect American jobs"
-- yes, those two goals are always mutually inclusive...

"The president believes that a strong and robust economy provides the resources needed to invest in new technologies that protect our environment and promote conservation."
-- aha. Thank the one true Christian God we don't have a strong or robust economy, else we might have to protect the environment and promote conservation, y'all.

'Course, Scott McClellan is the son of Carole Keeton McClellan Rylander Strayhorn, the Texas comptroller, who managed Bush's governmental finances during his six-year presidential campaign down here (oh, I mean, his gubernatorial stint). So, I'm sure McClellan had lots of time to practice.
posted by pineapple at 3:07 PM on July 31, 2003

"While foreign affairs are screwing us rotten
Line morale has hit rock bottom."
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:11 PM on July 31, 2003

Sounds like this is going to be another "we hate Bush" discussion......
posted by Durwood at 3:13 PM on July 31, 2003

How could you not think that Bush needs a vacation? In the last number of months he's given us a huge tax break to plunge us further into debt, used faulty intelligence in his State of the Union speech, rushed to war using dubious information, dared rogues to "Bring it on" to our troops and had a rambling press conference where he was barely coherent (NYT). He needs a vacation desperately. Get your golf on, Mr. Pres. And good luck mastering that segway.
posted by blefr at 3:16 PM on July 31, 2003

It's over 100 degrees most days, their letters home are censored to remove any disparaging remarks about the government, and a whole lot of people back home think that they're not accomplishing anything, and were sent there for political ideologies, backed by lies...Bush is playing golf, and saying "bring it on" to the terrorists when he's gloating on TV.

1. It's over 100 degrees in many parts of the world -- including the U.S. -- during the summer. That, alone, is not newsworthy. Yes, it's hot and dusty over in Iraq, but most of the troops are dealing with it OK.

2. Their letters home are NOT censored. I have received letters from deployed troops, spoken and met with their spouses, etc, and no such thing has occurred that I or they are aware of.

3. No shit we are there for "political ideologies" -- do the terms freedom, liberty, democracy, etc, ring a bell?

4. The President is an elected official who serves as the CEO of the nation. His job is not to grab a gun and go fight. That is the job of the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines who raised their hands and took an oath. The fact that the President is playing golf does not detract from the awesome responsibilities that he has, nor does it prevent it from fulfilling his role as Commander-in-Chief.

And the main point of the linked (first) article is not backed up, and as pointed out above, it just sounds gramatically stupid. I have not yet heard of a single military member committing suicide in Iraq.
posted by davidmsc at 3:16 PM on July 31, 2003

cohappy: middle and lower middle class working men and women with families are killing themselves in the desert due to repeated shelling, scarce supplies, and repeatedly cancelled rotation. the born rich, never had to work for anything, scion of an ongoing criminal enterprise who put them there under false pretense is fucking off on his ranch for a month. what part didn't you get, @$%&^#?
posted by quonsar at 3:18 PM on July 31, 2003

I have not yet heard of a single military member committing suicide in Iraq.

and as well all know, davidmsc has his finger firmly on the pulse of the suicidal military. if he hasn't heard it, it hasn't happened.
posted by quonsar at 3:21 PM on July 31, 2003

middle and lower middle class working men and women with families are killing themselves in the desert due to repeated shelling, scarce supplies, and repeatedly cancelled rotation.

Except they're not quonsar. They're soldiers.
posted by cohappy at 3:25 PM on July 31, 2003

do the terms freedom, liberty, democracy, etc, ring a bell?

No, but if you hum a few bars, I'm sure this adminstration can fake it.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 3:26 PM on July 31, 2003

durwood: Actually, it sounds like another "Bush doesn't have anything to do with anything" whinefest.

davidmc:
In response to your list:

1...Yes, it's hot and dusty over in Iraq, but most of the troops are dealing with it OK.
You have absolutely no more proof that most of them are "dealing with ok" than you do that US soldiers are not killing themselve from low morale. In other words you are spouting unfounded statements.

2. Their letters home are NOT censored. I have received letters from deployed troops, spoken and met with their spouses, etc, and no such thing has occurred that I or they are aware of.
Just because you may or may not have read letters from Iraq does not mean that they are not censored. If they were censored you would not have read them. This is the goal of censorship. Besides I don't think you are a qualified, reliable or remotely objective source to find out the current morale of the troops in Iraq.

3. No shit we are there for "political ideologies" -- do the terms freedom, liberty, democracy, etc, ring a bell?
Ridiculous jingoism doesn't generally impress someone who thinks.

4. The President is an elected official who serves as the CEO of the nation. His job is not to grab a gun and go fight. That is the job of the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines who raised their hands and took an oath. The fact that the President is playing golf does not detract from the awesome responsibilities that he has, nor does it prevent it from fulfilling his role as Commander-in-Chief.
As commander and chief of the armed forces and President of the United States (not CEO) he is directly responsible for the welfare of these men. After all it was his warmongering and probable lying that got them there in the first place. I am shocked that somebody so obviously "pro-america" as you would not be the least bit concerned with your, ahem, CEO's unconcern with possible suicides in Iraq.
posted by sic at 3:31 PM on July 31, 2003

Combat: 39 deaths
Noncombat: 53 deaths

Apparently just kicking around is more likely to get you killed than friendly fire. Seems like an awful lot of folks -- anybody else seen the noncombat death toll before?
posted by Ogre Lawless at 3:35 PM on July 31, 2003

their letters home are censored to remove any disparaging remarks about the government

I received a letter from my brother during his time in Iraq. If the government was censoring ill will towards the US government, there would have been nothing left to read in his letter. Ditto those he sent my mother. He is one unhappy Marine.
posted by thirteen at 3:37 PM on July 31, 2003

Ogre you have to remember that people are operating heavy machinery, dealing with guns, explosives, military vehicles, etc. Accidents are a fact of life, even on base.
posted by cell divide at 3:54 PM on July 31, 2003

Lets hope this war doesn't create any serial snipers or McVeighs. Or vets who need to be executed.
posted by hyperizer at 4:01 PM on July 31, 2003

Why is every letter that's been posted here mostly come from the US Army? They are not the only forces over there?
posted by thomcatspike at 4:02 PM on July 31, 2003

guy # 1 : i refuse to read any post that bashes bush

guy # 2 : i refuse to read any post that supports bush

rinse. repeat.
posted by Satapher at 4:05 PM on July 31, 2003

Do you think it's possible, davidmc, that given recent events in the business world coughEnroncough, that "CEO" is not the best analogy for the function of the president?

Oh, wait, actually, scratch that. You're right on the money.
posted by majcher at 4:08 PM on July 31, 2003

guy # 1 : i refuse to read any post that bashes bush

Less pro-Bush than pro-FPP's where supporting links actually, um, support the main link.
posted by cohappy at 4:10 PM on July 31, 2003

Oops. That should have read "or other vets...."
posted by hyperizer at 4:11 PM on July 31, 2003

There's always a suicide rate in the military no matter what the circumstances. In each six-month deployment our ship (5000 people, air wing + ship's company) went on, we would lose about 3 to 5 people due to suicide, and this was not during wartime. I'd be shocked if there were no suicides in Iraq at this time.

There is ALWAYS censorship of letters home, but not for grumbling or ill will. Each letter is read to ensure there isn't any information given about about unit location, size, future plans, etc. It's a simple security issue. (Although, when I was in, we didn't have email like these kids do today; I wonder how much more of a burden that puts on the censors).

Although I think Shrub is an evil lying hypocrite asshole, I agree that his actions are not really related to soldiers committing suicide.
posted by greasepig at 4:11 PM on July 31, 2003

There have been a number of "non-hostile gunshot incidents" among US troops in that time, with suspected suicides and accidental discharges of weapons, for example during cleaning, included under the category.

okay, I'm not a gun owner, so maybe I'm being an idiot here, but why in hell would you clean a gun while it's still loaded!?
posted by Vetinari at 4:15 PM on July 31, 2003

davidmsc has his finger firmly on the pulse of the suicidal military. if he hasn't heard it, it hasn't happened.
and
You have absolutely no more proof
and
I don't think you are a qualified, reliable or remotely objective source to find out the current morale of the troops in Iraq

You all need to quit bashing me and feeling so freakin' superior just because you've read a few headlines and are pre-disposed to hating the President and/or Operation Iraqi Freedom.

As a matter fact, this is one of the very few subjects discussed at MeFi that I actually AM somewhat qualified to address, seeing as how I am an officer in the US Air Force, assigned to a medical unit, and have many co-workers and friends who have served and/or are currently serving in Iraq. Call it a hunch, but I suspect that I've spoken with and e-mailed more deployed troops than any of you...and of course they would rather be sitting in their air-conditioned homes, playing with their kids, eating dinner at Bennigan's, watching a ballgame, etc, but by and large they are very proud of what they are doing, understand the importance of their mission, and can beyond the immediate hardship that they are enduring. They are professionals, and they are doing it because they choose to.

And before any of you jump on me and accuse me of "generalizing" about ALL deployed military members, when in fact I've only communicated with several dozen or so, well, then...what exactly is the point of this whole thread?
posted by davidmsc at 4:16 PM on July 31, 2003

to davidmc, I respect the freedom to speak. And so I submit to you a young man *fresh* (as of today- my son in law) from Iraq:"The hope there is gone".

Let me interpret. BTW he was there. He thinks we* (United States) might never understand the MUSLIM way of life! Period.
posted by Cedric at 4:21 PM on July 31, 2003