EU versus USA

March 4, 2005 4:53 PM

If the European Union were a state in the USA it would belong to the poorest group of states. France, Italy, Great Britain and Germany have lower GDP per capita than all but four of the states in the United States. In fact, GDP per capita is lower in the vast majority of the EU-countries (EU 15) than in most of the individual American states. This puts Europeans at a level of prosperity on par with states such as Arkansas, Mississippi and West Virginia. Only the miniscule country of Luxembourg has higher per capita GDP than the average state in the USA.
posted by b_thinky (31 comments total)

I'm sure not everything in this report is necessarily true, but it makes for an interesting read.
posted by b_thinky at 4:55 PM on March 4, 2005

Rather, this demonstrates how poor "per capita GDP" is as a measure of "prosperity". I'll bet you citizens of all the mentioned countries enjoy a far higher quality of life, all things considered, than most Americans do -- especially in light of the recent discussion about economic risks to the individual, safety nets, cost of healthcare, yadda yadda yadda.
posted by randomstriker at 4:58 PM on March 4, 2005

Welcome to Timbro – the free-market think-tank of Swedish enterprise

There's a hiding to nothing - trying to take quality of life away from people in the name of GDP.
posted by liam at 4:59 PM on March 4, 2005

What I'd really like is a chart of European nation GDPs, American State GDPs and present exchange rates; as well as a list of factors why this data would be insufficient to make a comparision. Note to self: come back and research; now isn't the time.
posted by nthdegx at 5:03 PM on March 4, 2005

DOUBLE POST
posted by matteo at 5:07 PM on March 4, 2005

b_thinky posted "This puts Europeans at a level of prosperity on par with states such as Arkansas, Mississippi and West Virginia."

But my (prejudiced?) guess is that most European (certainly the Western and Northern ones) nations enjoy higher literacy levels and lower infant mortality than these US states. Is this in fact the case?

And what of wealth distribution? How much of that GDP is claimed by those in the upper quintile of wealth, and how much by those in the lowest quintile, in Europe as compared to the US? What of average or median earnings?
posted by orthogonality at 5:08 PM on March 4, 2005

Energy consumption moves GDP up.

Don't worry, with the US of A being a big net importer of energy - when the US Dollar stops being the way you buy oil combied with the 'hand of the market' moving the oil to Europe, India and China the US of A will move into recession then depression.

Be sure to remember the efforts of Jimmy Carter 20+ years ago, and remember the actions of the later office holders as you find existance VERY expensive in the US of A.

If it helps, read this:
http://216.187.75.220/newsletter51.pdf
Notice that the article says crash program mitigation would need to begin 20 years before peak oil production to avoid massive shortages!

Way to go George and Ron! Oh and Bill, you ignored it too.
posted by rough ashlar at 5:08 PM on March 4, 2005

also,

"the basic premises of this report have been debunked, and debunked with extreme prejudice. Nearly two years ago"

make it three years, now
posted by matteo at 5:09 PM on March 4, 2005

GDP per capita is exactly what it sounds like, and is hardly a measure of economic prosperity. If you put Bill Gates and five broke people in a room the income per capita would be huge; but that won't make the broke people any richer.

A more accurate measure is median income (not average), and median disposable income. Average hourly wage is another useful indicator. Number of medical expense related bankruptcies would also be a good thing to compare. Or simply gross number of bankruptcies.
posted by sotonohito at 5:10 PM on March 4, 2005

Also, European(union member)s live longer than Americans.
posted by ZippityBuddha at 5:15 PM on March 4, 2005

How many more weeks year do Americans have to work than Europeans? Another reason why GDP figures are higher in the US, here [pdf]..
posted by MrMerlot at 5:16 PM on March 4, 2005

If you're in to this sort of thing, though, check out the UN's Human Development Index. We (Canada) keep not making #1 lately, but other than that, I have been quite pleased with how much it seems to take so many different things into consideration.
#1 for five years running: Norway.
posted by blacklite at 5:17 PM on March 4, 2005

Also, European(union member)s live longer than Americans.

Careful. Bush can take care of that, Mr. Smartmouth.
posted by tkchrist at 5:23 PM on March 4, 2005

Nice catch, matteo.
posted by Floydd at 5:28 PM on March 4, 2005

But if life in the old countries is so sweet, why are there so many more people leaving Europe to make a career in the US than 'mericans immigrating to Europe?
posted by sour cream at 5:39 PM on March 4, 2005

Because we are the capital of the Matrix.

Mmmm.... steak.
posted by digaman at 5:43 PM on March 4, 2005

But if life in the old countries is so sweet, why are there so many more people leaving Europe to make a career in the US than 'mericans immigrating to Europe?

One factor would be that most American's don't speak a language other than English, while most Europeans speak at least their native tongue as well as English. Makes it tough to get a job in France if you don't speak French. Plus all the other countries are out to get us (or so I'm told).
posted by fatbobsmith at 5:48 PM on March 4, 2005

fatbobsmith: I get what you're saying, but I don't think language is the reason America's Great Unwashed aren't migrating to Europe. They would have to know where it is first.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 5:51 PM on March 4, 2005

Or simply gross number of bankruptcies.
I don't think that would be helpful in a comparison. I imagine the number in the US would be vastly more than the EU, because of our different economic structures. A vast number of new businesses start up every year in the US, and a vast number of those fail. I think this sort of entrepreneurialism is not as common in European economies, and thus you would see fewer bankruptcies.
posted by Sangermaine at 5:51 PM on March 4, 2005

America is going broke.
posted by Hildegarde at 5:52 PM on March 4, 2005

Here's an alternative view: from The Economist.
posted by Floydd at 5:52 PM on March 4, 2005

Turtles all the way down
Europe is quite a bit more difficult to immigrate to than the US, in terms of their policies and laws.
posted by Sangermaine at 5:53 PM on March 4, 2005

Sangermaine: I don't think we're disagreeing.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 6:02 PM on March 4, 2005

Having lived and worked in both countries, I think it's a tossup. Europe has great public transport and free health care. In the US, it's much easier to get a job, and since you're not taxed to death, you have more disposable income to play around with. Extra money isn't the be all and end all, but it can improve quality of life a lot.

Both systems work. Americans have more money, Europeans have more time and better cafes.

One additional caveat to all of this is that, historically, the US has born a disproportionate burden of defense costs.
posted by nyterrant at 6:06 PM on March 4, 2005

Sorry, make that continents, not countries.
posted by nyterrant at 6:07 PM on March 4, 2005

And let me put my oar in the water after being so pissy about America. I spent three years there, and returned to Canada just because it was my culture and I felt more comfortable there. But I never had so much money (or more precisely got to keep so much of what I earned). As far as quality of life goes, there's a lot to be said for having bucks.

(But I still got freaked out about the medical system and scurried home to the Great White North.)
posted by Turtles all the way down at 6:11 PM on March 4, 2005

...why are there so many more people leaving Europe to make a career in the US than 'Americans immigrating to Europe?

Europe is BETTER as far as life style goes. The EU social state may not be sustainable but I'd sure as shit rather take my chances on a economic collapse there than here.

Once we can sell our business my wife and I are planning move to Italy.

Not that I have hate boner for America. Quite the opposite. But America is growing literally uglier by the day. In almost every way. Fatter. Crasser. Stupider. The stripmall-ification of America. The older I get the more that stuff matters to me.

(Why should I stay here? Because my parents fucked here and makes me owe the place? I've put in my service. See you suckers later!)

Italy is frigg'n better than here. Those people know how to live. Just like HERE is better than a most other places.

That's right. I said it.
posted by tkchrist at 6:19 PM on March 4, 2005

I haven't read the comments, since I'm about to burst in to flames, but ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??
Timbro is Sweden's, hm, I don't know, Heritage Foundation? Cato Institute? The most right wing (and I mean this in both the Swedish AND the American sense) think tank in Sweden.

I weep when I see this crap on Metafilter. Seriously.

Funny facts: One of the Timbro chief "thinkers" has made a manifesto stating that "now is the time" for a "democratic imperialism" and that the neoconservatives have it all figured out.
He has also encouraged the youth of Sweden to pick up arms against the Socialist (in fact Social Democratic) government. Seriously. Timbro is like a parrot, repeating whatever their idols on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean says.

You have better conservative thinkers in the US, if you want to debate these things. Please leave our prominent idiots out of it.

On preview: What matteo said.
posted by mr.marx at 6:19 PM on March 4, 2005

Turtles: I used to live with two British doctors, and we had a lot of conversations about the different medical systems in the US and the UK. I had a hard time convincing them that 'free' medical just isn't free. You pay out the nose in taxes for it.

At the time, I was working hard and quite healthy, but very poor. Meanwhile, my flatmates were dealing with two dozen unemployed smack addicts in the emergency ward each day. Sometimes, on my way to the corner shop to buy another batch of beans and rice, I would get to thinking, "why am I paying my taxes to keep these crackheads alive? I am barely scratching out a life for myself here, and yet I'm being forced to subsidize health care for those assholes."

I don't know if that's right or wrong, but it's what was going through my head at the time.
posted by nyterrant at 6:21 PM on March 4, 2005

Thank you, matteo. Thank you, mr.marx.
posted by soundofsuburbia at 6:28 PM on March 4, 2005

"...why am I paying my taxes to keep these crackheads alive? I am barely scratching out a life for myself here, and yet I'm being forced to subsidize health care for those assholes."

Realize that even in the American medical system, you wind up subsidizing the heath care of those assholes, either through state emergency heath care systems, prison healt care systems, or increased insurance costs due to the fact that hospitals have to jack up their fees to afford providing emergency care to the indigent. We don't have many people dying on the streets in the U.S., and the money to pay for heath care for the poor and shiftless doesn't come from a magical fairyland.
posted by mr_roboto at 6:48 PM on March 4, 2005