Whole Foods? Yes! Suburban Sprawl? Oh Yeah!
January 24, 2006 8:43 AM Subscribe
Indianapolis is getting a Whole Foods Market. Great, right? Whole Foods Market is a recognized leader in the ecologically friendly organic foods business and includes in its "Core Values" Wise Environmental Practices & Community Citizenship. The location where this new market will be built will require the leveling of 17 acres of wooded land adjacent to a 50 year old residential neighborhood of 350 homes. This wooded area is one of the last homes for wild animals in the area. Oh yeah, nobody that lives in the area wants it built either. So much for core values.
And the irony of the whole enterprise is laid bare. Whole Foods makes me want to burn down rainforests and drink Bosco from the bottle.
posted by jonmc at 8:56 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by jonmc at 8:56 AM on January 24, 2006
So if Whole Foods were to not be a tenant, would the 17 acres not be developed?
posted by R. Mutt at 9:02 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by R. Mutt at 9:02 AM on January 24, 2006
Bet those 350 homes are on more than 17 acres of woods.
posted by smackfu at 9:03 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by smackfu at 9:03 AM on January 24, 2006
I grew up in a house bordered by cornfields and wooded areas, and there was always a concern that a developer would purchase the land and turn it into a subdivision or, worse, a trailer park. Better for it to be a Whole Foods than something less desirable. I don't understand the legality of the citizens' "Comprehensive Plan", but it sounds like "hey, we moved here because it was pretty and wooded, we didn't think anyone would actually build stuff around here." If it's not your land, and it's zoned commercial, do you really have a right to complain? It sound like they're not nearly as mad at the developer or the previous owner of the land or the city zoning as much as they are at Whole Foods, which I find odd. The store just wants to build in the most desirable place possible.
posted by billysumday at 9:03 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by billysumday at 9:03 AM on January 24, 2006
Credos and statements of 'core values' seem to have no legal meaning. They are just so much public relations baloney. whole Foods is just another publicly-traded corporation.
Perhaps we should change the name to Ho' Foods.
posted by Goofyy at 9:05 AM on January 24, 2006
Perhaps we should change the name to Ho' Foods.
posted by Goofyy at 9:05 AM on January 24, 2006
My sister-in-law worked for Whole Foods for many years. For the first several, she had nothing but good things to say about it. But she quit last year. Why? She said that the company met with astounding success, much to their own suprised, and overexpanded much too quickly. This required bringing on a huge number of people at both the service and managerial levels. The new arrivals had not grown up in the company culture, and had trouble accepting the Whole Foods ethos. They have brought in much more traditional business models and become obsessed with the profit-above-all motive.
It really did start out as a terrific, honorable, and bold company that was a joy to be with. I remember what it was like in those days, and have been able to visit the Pigeon Cove fish plant and see their principles in action. My SIL visited coffee plantations in Guatemala and met growers and workers, verifying the good working conditions and quality coffee, when she was with WF subsidiary Allegra Coffee. But things are changing. The small suppliers can't meet the giant new WF demand any more. They're forced to compromise. WF isn't what it used to be. Too much success.
posted by Miko at 9:07 AM on January 24, 2006
It really did start out as a terrific, honorable, and bold company that was a joy to be with. I remember what it was like in those days, and have been able to visit the Pigeon Cove fish plant and see their principles in action. My SIL visited coffee plantations in Guatemala and met growers and workers, verifying the good working conditions and quality coffee, when she was with WF subsidiary Allegra Coffee. But things are changing. The small suppliers can't meet the giant new WF demand any more. They're forced to compromise. WF isn't what it used to be. Too much success.
posted by Miko at 9:07 AM on January 24, 2006
Why do they need 17 acres?
Oh, yeah, because local zoning laws probably require a ridiculous amount of parking space for a retail business that large. Oh, but that's only a problem now that they are going to cut those trees near your home, you weren't complaining about too many parking spaces when you had to park the Navigator a whole 1/8th of a mile from the mall last Xmas were you Indy?
posted by Pollomacho at 9:08 AM on January 24, 2006
Oh, yeah, because local zoning laws probably require a ridiculous amount of parking space for a retail business that large. Oh, but that's only a problem now that they are going to cut those trees near your home, you weren't complaining about too many parking spaces when you had to park the Navigator a whole 1/8th of a mile from the mall last Xmas were you Indy?
posted by Pollomacho at 9:08 AM on January 24, 2006
They also don't carry velveeta at their cheese counter. I simply don't trust that. Lousy eco-yuppies.
posted by jonmc at 9:08 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by jonmc at 9:08 AM on January 24, 2006
Yeah, Whole Foods is dung.
Now, had this been a Central Market, then this would be a good story and the local citizens would be lucky.
posted by dios at 9:09 AM on January 24, 2006
Now, had this been a Central Market, then this would be a good story and the local citizens would be lucky.
posted by dios at 9:09 AM on January 24, 2006
Oh, to be sure, the 17 acres would definitely be developed. 86th Street is a total commercial mess, all the way from I-465 on the west side to I-465 on the east side.
posted by wabashbdw at 9:11 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by wabashbdw at 9:11 AM on January 24, 2006
Whole Foods is one big, self-satisfied contradiction. Ho' Foods indeed.
posted by youarenothere at 9:14 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by youarenothere at 9:14 AM on January 24, 2006
Whole Foods is such a brilliant scam. Babble about "core values" until people just assume you're a company to be trusted over other companies. Sell organic produce that's no better than the unexciting non-organic stuff at the regular grocery store, but costs twice as much. Profit.
posted by rxrfrx at 9:15 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by rxrfrx at 9:15 AM on January 24, 2006
Come on folks, it's just another place to CONSUME, it's just this one sells it in some sort of guilt free package, that and the thing about the parking spaces.
posted by Pollomacho at 9:17 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by Pollomacho at 9:17 AM on January 24, 2006
Whole Foods is one big, self-satisfied contradiction.
It's custom designed for the type of people who get choked up about the Rainforest but will step over a sleeping homeless guy without even noticing.
posted by jonmc at 9:18 AM on January 24, 2006 [1 favorite]
It's custom designed for the type of people who get choked up about the Rainforest but will step over a sleeping homeless guy without even noticing.
posted by jonmc at 9:18 AM on January 24, 2006 [1 favorite]
Well, as if I didn't need another reason to avoid Whole Foods and their ridiculously high prices...
posted by antifuse at 9:20 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by antifuse at 9:20 AM on January 24, 2006
They should be happy that someone will put a grocery that close to their homes. Traffic is such a mess in that area, it probably takes 20 minutes just to get the Escalade out of the garage. Now they can save the time and just pay the neighbor boy to run over and fetch their bread and milk.
Not to snark on them for having a lot of money, but they are pretty much the reason that the area is a high-end commercial extravaganza. They just wanted Castleton and Fishers to absorb all the parking lots so they can keep property values high.
posted by wabashbdw at 9:23 AM on January 24, 2006
Not to snark on them for having a lot of money, but they are pretty much the reason that the area is a high-end commercial extravaganza. They just wanted Castleton and Fishers to absorb all the parking lots so they can keep property values high.
posted by wabashbdw at 9:23 AM on January 24, 2006
I bought an apple at W.F. sometime last fall... I wish I could remember the variety's name. I bought it because I'd never heard of it and enjoy trying new varieties (as eating apples) when I see them. It was quite large as apples go... kind of pinkish and unbelievably tasty. It was expensive, but I think it had more to do with the rarity of that particular variety than anything else. It was grown in the upper-midwest somewhere, I think.
posted by Witty at 9:24 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by Witty at 9:24 AM on January 24, 2006
Forgive me if I seem ignorant, but exactly what types of shitty little animals can live on 17 acres of land? Would the community really miss a bunch of raccoons, skunks, and deer?
Also, a 50-year-old neighborhood isn't old.
Christ, I sound like a Republican.
posted by wakko at 9:25 AM on January 24, 2006
Also, a 50-year-old neighborhood isn't old.
Christ, I sound like a Republican.
posted by wakko at 9:25 AM on January 24, 2006
This is silly. Would you rather they tear down an entire neighborhood instead? Because those are your options: undeveloped land or somewhere somebody's living.
I can see residents objecting to a huge supermarket being plopped down in their neighborhood... traffic... property values dropping... but bringing it up as an environmental issue is just absurd. Especially when you consider that it's a chunk of land right next to a suburban neighborhood, and is likely home to more lip-locking teens than woodland creatures.
The neighbors said the project fits in much better on the east side of Keystone where there is already commercial development.
I'm assuming there's a less environmentally vital 17 acres over there.
posted by brundlefly at 9:26 AM on January 24, 2006
I can see residents objecting to a huge supermarket being plopped down in their neighborhood... traffic... property values dropping... but bringing it up as an environmental issue is just absurd. Especially when you consider that it's a chunk of land right next to a suburban neighborhood, and is likely home to more lip-locking teens than woodland creatures.
The neighbors said the project fits in much better on the east side of Keystone where there is already commercial development.
I'm assuming there's a less environmentally vital 17 acres over there.
posted by brundlefly at 9:26 AM on January 24, 2006
Forgive me if I seem ignorant, but exactly what types of shitty little animals can live on 17 acres of land? Would the community really miss a bunch of raccoons, skunks, and deer?
well, the local kids need a place to drink beer, smoke pot and screw in the bushes. WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!
posted by jonmc at 9:27 AM on January 24, 2006
well, the local kids need a place to drink beer, smoke pot and screw in the bushes. WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!
posted by jonmc at 9:27 AM on January 24, 2006
It is all very well and nice to want a woods to buffer your neighborhood from the highway, but who is to pay for it? I guess they just wanted the existing property owner to sit on it and keep paying taxes on the land for their benefit. whey not buy it as a community? In any event the real culprit here seems to be the zoning board and others who are prepared to rezone the property to allow Whole Foods to come in.
posted by caddis at 9:31 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by caddis at 9:31 AM on January 24, 2006
I don't much buy into the whole warm-and-fuzziness of the Whole Foods credo, but I do like the quality of their goods. I can't think of a better place to get organic produce, thick dry-aged steaks, quality seafood, fresh bread and cheese. Yeah, I pay a premium for it, but it's worth it.
(Sorry about your raccoons, though.)
posted by crunchland at 9:32 AM on January 24, 2006
(Sorry about your raccoons, though.)
posted by crunchland at 9:32 AM on January 24, 2006
well, the local kids need a place to drink beer, smoke pot
Isn't that what garages are for?
and screw in the bushes.
oh
posted by wakko at 9:32 AM on January 24, 2006
Isn't that what garages are for?
and screw in the bushes.
oh
posted by wakko at 9:32 AM on January 24, 2006
Ok, so maybe it wasn't pinkish exactly... but I'm pretty sure the apple was a Honey Crisp. Damn good.
posted by Witty at 9:33 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by Witty at 9:33 AM on January 24, 2006
17.
acres.
how much overpriced food do the yuppies need?!
posted by shmegegge at 9:33 AM on January 24, 2006
acres.
how much overpriced food do the yuppies need?!
posted by shmegegge at 9:33 AM on January 24, 2006
Look like this is the area in question, with the woods west of keystone. I can understand these woods are nice and there's already a lot of cement.
posted by elpapacito at 9:36 AM on January 24, 2006
I'm assuming there's a less environmentally vital 17 acres over there.
Yes, it's called the ghetto. Those "animals" can find a new place to live so I don't have to have my property values (theoretically) drop and I can find organic Viennese chickpea and chipotle humus without ordering it from Harry and David's. Win/win!
Seriously, people that think that property values drop when development comes need to rent.
posted by Pollomacho at 9:37 AM on January 24, 2006
Yes, it's called the ghetto. Those "animals" can find a new place to live so I don't have to have my property values (theoretically) drop and I can find organic Viennese chickpea and chipotle humus without ordering it from Harry and David's. Win/win!
Seriously, people that think that property values drop when development comes need to rent.
posted by Pollomacho at 9:37 AM on January 24, 2006
I used to shop at the WholeFoods on 7th Ave and 24th street in Manhattan. This was just after we have moved to NYC from Seattle and couldn't find a PCC (which rules, btw) equivalent, and the feel of it kind of fit the bill.
Since moving Connecticut last year, we've actually discovered the StuporStopandShop, which is a pretty lame gigantic super market otherwise, has far better quality and a much broader selection of organic produce. I had often thought that was the major selling point of WF. WholeFoods? Never again.
posted by psmealey at 9:38 AM on January 24, 2006
Since moving Connecticut last year, we've actually discovered the StuporStopandShop, which is a pretty lame gigantic super market otherwise, has far better quality and a much broader selection of organic produce. I had often thought that was the major selling point of WF. WholeFoods? Never again.
posted by psmealey at 9:38 AM on January 24, 2006
Witty:
Methinks you found either a Pink Lady or a Honey Crisp variety of apple. The Lady has much pink coloring, hence the moniker, both types are extremely crisp and slightly tart, with a subtle hint of pineapple.
posted by dbiedny at 9:39 AM on January 24, 2006
Methinks you found either a Pink Lady or a Honey Crisp variety of apple. The Lady has much pink coloring, hence the moniker, both types are extremely crisp and slightly tart, with a subtle hint of pineapple.
posted by dbiedny at 9:39 AM on January 24, 2006
The small suppliers can't meet the giant new WF demand any more. They're forced to compromise. WF isn't what it used to be.
What a damn shame it is, this growing demand for organic produce! Just think of the poor factory farms and slaughterhouses! Next thing you know, ordinary, ugly, middle-class people (in places like Indiana) will want fuel-efficient hybrid cars! And they'll buy sweatshop-free manufactured products just because its cool!
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 9:39 AM on January 24, 2006
What a damn shame it is, this growing demand for organic produce! Just think of the poor factory farms and slaughterhouses! Next thing you know, ordinary, ugly, middle-class people (in places like Indiana) will want fuel-efficient hybrid cars! And they'll buy sweatshop-free manufactured products just because its cool!
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 9:39 AM on January 24, 2006
I can't think of a better place to get organic produce, thick dry-aged steaks, quality seafood, fresh bread and cheese.
And that's a shame, because around here the best place to get organic produce is at the local farmers' market. And the best place to get fresh bread is at the bakery. And so forth.
posted by rxrfrx at 9:39 AM on January 24, 2006
And that's a shame, because around here the best place to get organic produce is at the local farmers' market. And the best place to get fresh bread is at the bakery. And so forth.
posted by rxrfrx at 9:39 AM on January 24, 2006
If the people who live in the neighborhood were all that concerned, maybe they should have bought the 17 acres when it was for sale.
Southern Indiana is logging country anyway, and it's got a ton of forest. It's not like the squirrels aren't going to have anywhere to live. Normally I'm a big conservationist, but having spent considerable time in that part of the country, I'm really not all that shocked about 17 acres in suburban Indy being cut down. That it's for a Whole Foods is just a sign that big-city yuppie consumerism is comin' to the heartland, ready to displace the mom & pop natural food stores that were already there. Besides, Trader Joe's is so much better anyway ;-)
posted by JekPorkins at 9:40 AM on January 24, 2006
Southern Indiana is logging country anyway, and it's got a ton of forest. It's not like the squirrels aren't going to have anywhere to live. Normally I'm a big conservationist, but having spent considerable time in that part of the country, I'm really not all that shocked about 17 acres in suburban Indy being cut down. That it's for a Whole Foods is just a sign that big-city yuppie consumerism is comin' to the heartland, ready to displace the mom & pop natural food stores that were already there. Besides, Trader Joe's is so much better anyway ;-)
posted by JekPorkins at 9:40 AM on January 24, 2006
but I'm pretty sure the apple was a Honey Crisp. Damn good.
AFAIK, Honey Crisps grow pretty small. I put them in my kids' lunches every day for school. They're exactly as the name describes: crispy and sweet.
posted by thanotopsis at 9:43 AM on January 24, 2006
AFAIK, Honey Crisps grow pretty small. I put them in my kids' lunches every day for school. They're exactly as the name describes: crispy and sweet.
posted by thanotopsis at 9:43 AM on January 24, 2006
Interesting piece on Whole Foods on NOW the other day. Focus was on how executive salaries, particularly the top executives, average 341 times the average workers salary while Whole Foods limits its top salary to 14 times the average. Boeing wants to cut jobs during record profits and after having given a salary of over 29 million to their CEO.
Obviously, Whole Foods are doing some things different and such things shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. Their consistency in delivering their message should be analyzed and questioned. It's just sad to see that other companies get a free pass. If you're at all corporate and not mom and pop it seems it's cool to denounce regardless.
posted by juiceCake at 9:44 AM on January 24, 2006
Obviously, Whole Foods are doing some things different and such things shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. Their consistency in delivering their message should be analyzed and questioned. It's just sad to see that other companies get a free pass. If you're at all corporate and not mom and pop it seems it's cool to denounce regardless.
posted by juiceCake at 9:44 AM on January 24, 2006
Heh. Right next to the Catholic cemetery, too. Nice.
Honestly, though, that area is such a traffic fuck-up as it is. But then, Indy gave up being a nice place to live ages ago.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:44 AM on January 24, 2006
Honestly, though, that area is such a traffic fuck-up as it is. But then, Indy gave up being a nice place to live ages ago.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:44 AM on January 24, 2006
That it's for a Whole Foods is just a sign that big-city yuppie consumerism is comin' to the heartland, ready to displace the mom & pop natural food stores that were already there
Really? Where were the mom and pop natural food stores when I lived in Indy?
posted by billysumday at 9:45 AM on January 24, 2006
Really? Where were the mom and pop natural food stores when I lived in Indy?
posted by billysumday at 9:45 AM on January 24, 2006
Around DC, WF is often still referred to as Fresh Fields, the chain they bought out.
- The more you know.
posted by Pollomacho at 9:46 AM on January 24, 2006
- The more you know.
posted by Pollomacho at 9:46 AM on January 24, 2006
Woohoo! This means I can fix decent holiday meals when I go home for Thanksgiving and Christmas--thank you, City-County Council and Servaas Empire!
posted by gsh at 9:46 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by gsh at 9:46 AM on January 24, 2006
It's called "Whole Paycheck" for a reason, and they're anti-union, and it's a huge chain at this point.
But then there's this (switching all of their power to wind power) and this (adopting standards for humane treatment of animals used in their products), and then the CEO's a vegan and his salary is tied to that of the lowest wage earner (no link, I apologize).
Sorry, but they are doing a good job at making it hard for me to hate them (I'll keep trying though).
posted by unknowncommand at 9:50 AM on January 24, 2006
But then there's this (switching all of their power to wind power) and this (adopting standards for humane treatment of animals used in their products), and then the CEO's a vegan and his salary is tied to that of the lowest wage earner (no link, I apologize).
Sorry, but they are doing a good job at making it hard for me to hate them (I'll keep trying though).
posted by unknowncommand at 9:50 AM on January 24, 2006
First off, I find it funny that suburbanites are worried about development: You are development, assholes. You want woods preserved and want to have a smaller ecological footprint? Move to an apartment in a city, where you can walk more and use public transportation, use less fuel for heat, share a park instead of having your own little private water-sucking lawn, &c.
Also, here in the city, Whole Foods is my salvation. Living in the barrio, the grocery stores are appalling: the produce is vile and every convenience food has meat in it. While farmer's markets are great in the summer, I am a spoiled enough consumer to desire fresh produce all year round. Whole Foods built a subway-convenient store that gives me more choice in everything and doesn't require visiting eight different shops. Also, their express signs use "fewer" correctly. So yay for them. Even if they aren't perfect, they are a lot better than pretty much any store I've had recourse to before.
posted by dame at 9:51 AM on January 24, 2006
Also, here in the city, Whole Foods is my salvation. Living in the barrio, the grocery stores are appalling: the produce is vile and every convenience food has meat in it. While farmer's markets are great in the summer, I am a spoiled enough consumer to desire fresh produce all year round. Whole Foods built a subway-convenient store that gives me more choice in everything and doesn't require visiting eight different shops. Also, their express signs use "fewer" correctly. So yay for them. Even if they aren't perfect, they are a lot better than pretty much any store I've had recourse to before.
posted by dame at 9:51 AM on January 24, 2006
JuiceCake: That's an interesting fact. They are, however, very anti-union and will find excuses to fire employees who deal with union organizers.
posted by stopgap at 9:51 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by stopgap at 9:51 AM on January 24, 2006
They also don't carry velveeta at their cheese counter. I simply don't trust that. Lousy eco-yuppies.
What, is powdered mac and cheese not good enough, ya snob?
posted by Rothko at 9:52 AM on January 24, 2006
What, is powdered mac and cheese not good enough, ya snob?
posted by Rothko at 9:52 AM on January 24, 2006
What, are we doing a referendum on Whole Foods every week now?
I have plenty of problems with WF, but a lot of this sounds like knee-jerk trendy hate. Meh.
posted by soyjoy at 9:55 AM on January 24, 2006
I have plenty of problems with WF, but a lot of this sounds like knee-jerk trendy hate. Meh.
posted by soyjoy at 9:55 AM on January 24, 2006
Well, earlier this week it was revealed that the Emerald Ash Borer has finally arrived in Indianapolis so part of those woods will likely not exist anyway in a few years.
And ordinary Hoosiers would be smart to support eco-friendly energy solutions, particularly soy diesel and corn-burning furnaces. It would be interesting if the suburbs started losing land to 'farm developers' instead of the other way around (it'll never happen, but just sayin').
posted by wabashbdw at 10:04 AM on January 24, 2006
And ordinary Hoosiers would be smart to support eco-friendly energy solutions, particularly soy diesel and corn-burning furnaces. It would be interesting if the suburbs started losing land to 'farm developers' instead of the other way around (it'll never happen, but just sayin').
posted by wabashbdw at 10:04 AM on January 24, 2006
If this was Wal-Mart instead of Whole Foods, Metafilter would be going berserk right now. Bottom line: if you don't want to live near development then move way the hell away from cities.
posted by b_thinky at 10:06 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by b_thinky at 10:06 AM on January 24, 2006
I grew up a few miles from there. It actually hadn't occured to me that that little corner *wasn't* already developed; everything else around there is. I have sympathy for people who've lived in that neighborhood for 30 or 40 years, but the person who moved in 18 months ago? They have no reason to bitch.
posted by sohcahtoa at 10:06 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by sohcahtoa at 10:06 AM on January 24, 2006
If it's not your land, and it's zoned commercial, do you really have a right to complain?
Well, in this case the land was zoned residential when the people who are complaining bought their houses, right up until yesterday's City-County Council meeting, which re-zoned the land commercial so Whole Foods could move in. In that case, yes, I think they do have a right to complain.
Woohoo! This means I can fix decent holiday meals when I go home for Thanksgiving and Christmas
You couldn't find what you needed at the Wild Oats just a mile west of this site?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:07 AM on January 24, 2006
Well, in this case the land was zoned residential when the people who are complaining bought their houses, right up until yesterday's City-County Council meeting, which re-zoned the land commercial so Whole Foods could move in. In that case, yes, I think they do have a right to complain.
Woohoo! This means I can fix decent holiday meals when I go home for Thanksgiving and Christmas
You couldn't find what you needed at the Wild Oats just a mile west of this site?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:07 AM on January 24, 2006
From jekprokin link I find that there's a Wild Oats Natural Marketplace really not far from the planned WF. It's not like lazy asses in the area aren't well served already.
on preview: ack devils was slightly faster
posted by elpapacito at 10:09 AM on January 24, 2006
on preview: ack devils was slightly faster
posted by elpapacito at 10:09 AM on January 24, 2006
I can't think of a better place to get organic produce, thick dry-aged steaks, quality seafood, fresh bread and cheese.
But where are we supposed to get pop tarts, marshmallow fluff, wonder bread and fruity pebbles, huh?
What, is powdered mac and cheese not good enough, ya snob?
All real mac-and-cheeseheads know that stouffers is the best, cooked in a convential oven to get that great crust. mmm, crust.
Also, here in the city, Whole Foods is my salvation.
in the city, there's a produce stand about every ten feet. Go down to chinatown and there's enogh exotic produce to satisfy anyone, cheaper than whole foods and without the insufferable indie-yuppie smugness the place reeks of.
posted by jonmc at 10:10 AM on January 24, 2006
But where are we supposed to get pop tarts, marshmallow fluff, wonder bread and fruity pebbles, huh?
What, is powdered mac and cheese not good enough, ya snob?
All real mac-and-cheeseheads know that stouffers is the best, cooked in a convential oven to get that great crust. mmm, crust.
Also, here in the city, Whole Foods is my salvation.
in the city, there's a produce stand about every ten feet. Go down to chinatown and there's enogh exotic produce to satisfy anyone, cheaper than whole foods and without the insufferable indie-yuppie smugness the place reeks of.
posted by jonmc at 10:10 AM on January 24, 2006
"while Whole Foods limits its top salary to 14 times the average."
We'll see how long that lasts. Ben & Jerry's was proud of the fact that they had a similar plan in place, but they quietly dropped it because they needed to offer more money to "attract top CEO talent."
Fuck overpaid CEO types.
posted by drstein at 10:11 AM on January 24, 2006
We'll see how long that lasts. Ben & Jerry's was proud of the fact that they had a similar plan in place, but they quietly dropped it because they needed to offer more money to "attract top CEO talent."
Fuck overpaid CEO types.
posted by drstein at 10:11 AM on January 24, 2006
Incidentally, that particular location is approximately 2 miles away from both of the Trader Joe's locations and 1 mile away from a Wild Oats market. There's a little stand called "Joey's Produce" about half a mile off the west edge of the above map-- not organic but still some of the best produce in town. On the other hand, the south, east, and west sides of the city have exactly zero alternative grocers, and fewer wooded parcels to tear down. How fortunate for the northsiders.
The large concrete mess to the right is the Fashion Mall; just off to the west past the edge of the map there is a large stretch of commercial development. I've known for years that the whole stretch of 86th street from Michigan to I-69 is to be avoided between the hours of 6-9am and 4-7pm.
posted by leapfrog at 10:14 AM on January 24, 2006
The large concrete mess to the right is the Fashion Mall; just off to the west past the edge of the map there is a large stretch of commercial development. I've known for years that the whole stretch of 86th street from Michigan to I-69 is to be avoided between the hours of 6-9am and 4-7pm.
posted by leapfrog at 10:14 AM on January 24, 2006
in the city, there's a produce stand about every ten feet. Go down to chinatown and there's enogh exotic produce to satisfy anyone, cheaper than whole foods and without the insufferable indie-yuppie smugness the place reeks of.
Dude, jon, I know you can read. So I can only guess that you willfully ignored the part about "subway-convenient" and "not going to eight stores." But of course you're the same asshole who wants to make this all about how you enjoy eating crap, so I guess paying attention to what people actually write shouldn't be expected, huh? Finally, no place on earth smells as bad as Chinatown.
posted by dame at 10:22 AM on January 24, 2006
Dude, jon, I know you can read. So I can only guess that you willfully ignored the part about "subway-convenient" and "not going to eight stores." But of course you're the same asshole who wants to make this all about how you enjoy eating crap, so I guess paying attention to what people actually write shouldn't be expected, huh? Finally, no place on earth smells as bad as Chinatown.
posted by dame at 10:22 AM on January 24, 2006
> Finally, no place on earth smells as bad as Chinatown.
I submit you've not been around.
posted by hackly_fracture at 10:24 AM on January 24, 2006
I submit you've not been around.
posted by hackly_fracture at 10:24 AM on January 24, 2006
Furthermore, Whole Foods is cheaper than the indie-yuppie grocery stores in Williamsburg, which is where I used to shop (you know, for convenience, because I'm not hauling myself all over just to eat). So you know, you can not like it and be all man of people, but please don't tell me how to best feed myself so as to appea to your fucked-up reverse snobberies. K?
posted by dame at 10:27 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by dame at 10:27 AM on January 24, 2006
Maybe you noisy assholes that think the 17 acres is oh, so unimportant, have never witnessed the demise of sub/urban green land before. I have, and I actually wept.
The green belt wasn't old. Houses had been demolished to make way for a new expressway. That project was then put on hold. The land where the houses had been laid there. The old gardens grew wild. The old trees stood.
Wildlife, quite amazingly, moved in. This was urban, about 4 blocks from the city center. And it was full of rabbits, pheasants, squirrel, and I don't know what else. I walked through on my way to college. It was really great, all the more so as I'd returned to my home town after some time living in NYC.
Then they reactivated the project. Crews came and felled the trees, removed the shrubs gone wild. And burned into my brain is the image of a tree trunk, bigger around than the considerable reach of my arms. Ants marching across its bare, white flesh.
But you New Yorkers can go on yapping away about the meaninglessness of 17 acres of trees. I'm sure you have considerable experience to enlighten you. Perhaps we should clear Central Park and put up some more office towers. I'm sure the city could use the revenue, no?
posted by Goofyy at 10:27 AM on January 24, 2006
The green belt wasn't old. Houses had been demolished to make way for a new expressway. That project was then put on hold. The land where the houses had been laid there. The old gardens grew wild. The old trees stood.
Wildlife, quite amazingly, moved in. This was urban, about 4 blocks from the city center. And it was full of rabbits, pheasants, squirrel, and I don't know what else. I walked through on my way to college. It was really great, all the more so as I'd returned to my home town after some time living in NYC.
Then they reactivated the project. Crews came and felled the trees, removed the shrubs gone wild. And burned into my brain is the image of a tree trunk, bigger around than the considerable reach of my arms. Ants marching across its bare, white flesh.
But you New Yorkers can go on yapping away about the meaninglessness of 17 acres of trees. I'm sure you have considerable experience to enlighten you. Perhaps we should clear Central Park and put up some more office towers. I'm sure the city could use the revenue, no?
posted by Goofyy at 10:27 AM on January 24, 2006
No, really, hackly, I found the source. On the landing for the stairs between the J & Q at Canal Street. It is the source of all the stench on earth.
posted by dame at 10:28 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by dame at 10:28 AM on January 24, 2006
But of course you're the same asshole who wants to make this all about how you enjoy eating crap, so I guess paying attention to what people actually write shouldn't be expected, huh?
I'm just breaking your stones a bit, although I do find Whole Foods annoying, and I find it a little strange that many of the same people who decry the "mallification" of New York are embracing them.
Finally, no place on earth smells as bad as Chinatown.
I love Chinatown. Especially the fish stands with the fish still trying to breathe. It's like a great big aquatic snuff film.
posted by jonmc at 10:29 AM on January 24, 2006
I'm just breaking your stones a bit, although I do find Whole Foods annoying, and I find it a little strange that many of the same people who decry the "mallification" of New York are embracing them.
Finally, no place on earth smells as bad as Chinatown.
I love Chinatown. Especially the fish stands with the fish still trying to breathe. It's like a great big aquatic snuff film.
posted by jonmc at 10:29 AM on January 24, 2006
heh.
posted by hackly_fracture at 10:29 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by hackly_fracture at 10:29 AM on January 24, 2006
without the insufferable indie-yuppie smugness the place reeks of
Gee, just like the insufferable so-cool-it-hurts smugness your comments reek of . . . congrats on keeping it so real. By the way, the produce and especially meat in Chinatown is about as far from organic as you can get. I know, organic-schmorganic. But it matters to some of us.
I hope Whole Foods keeps plowing on and becomes the Starbucks of organic produce. It will only attract people who would normally shop at Safeway and in the end, grow the market for local & sustainable farming.
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 10:31 AM on January 24, 2006
Gee, just like the insufferable so-cool-it-hurts smugness your comments reek of . . . congrats on keeping it so real. By the way, the produce and especially meat in Chinatown is about as far from organic as you can get. I know, organic-schmorganic. But it matters to some of us.
I hope Whole Foods keeps plowing on and becomes the Starbucks of organic produce. It will only attract people who would normally shop at Safeway and in the end, grow the market for local & sustainable farming.
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 10:31 AM on January 24, 2006
"heh" to both of you, in fact! Laughter all around!
posted by hackly_fracture at 10:31 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by hackly_fracture at 10:31 AM on January 24, 2006
I don't know anyone who shops at Whole Foods because they think it's some kind of humanitarian act, or because they want to look cool. People who shop there generally do so because the food is better than at standard grocery stores, and they carry specialty foods that are hard to find elsewhere.
It's these suburban NIMBYs who have been unbelievably successful at selling their ideas as environmentalism while creating unbelievable amounts of sprawl by keeping development further and further from the center of cities. I live in Ann Arbor. I'm used to this kind of thing.
posted by transona5 at 10:32 AM on January 24, 2006
It's these suburban NIMBYs who have been unbelievably successful at selling their ideas as environmentalism while creating unbelievable amounts of sprawl by keeping development further and further from the center of cities. I live in Ann Arbor. I'm used to this kind of thing.
posted by transona5 at 10:32 AM on January 24, 2006
I love Whole Foods, but I am not the kind of person who would step over a homeless guy to get to one. I prefer stepping on them, in order to keep my Birkenstock's dry.
posted by found missing at 10:34 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by found missing at 10:34 AM on January 24, 2006
I'm sure you have considerable experience to enlighten you. Perhaps we should clear Central Park and put up some more office towers. I'm sure the city could use the revenue, no?
See, that's just inane. That park is for, oh, 8 million people or so. Who live in apartments. I think all these suburbanites who care about squirrels so much should move to a fifth-floor walkup and turn their whole subdevelopment over. A lot less hypocrisy there.
(Jon, it is amazing to me that I still love you despite your annoy schtick. Please don't make me stop being amazed.)
posted by dame at 10:34 AM on January 24, 2006
See, that's just inane. That park is for, oh, 8 million people or so. Who live in apartments. I think all these suburbanites who care about squirrels so much should move to a fifth-floor walkup and turn their whole subdevelopment over. A lot less hypocrisy there.
(Jon, it is amazing to me that I still love you despite your annoy schtick. Please don't make me stop being amazed.)
posted by dame at 10:34 AM on January 24, 2006
I don't know anyone who shops at Whole Foods because they think it's some kind of humanitarian act, or because they want to look cool.
Then why is it so heavily emphasized in their marketing?
Far be it from me to stop anybody from shopping where they want to shop, but is it some kind of dreadful faux pas to register any criticism of these places?
posted by jonmc at 10:35 AM on January 24, 2006
Then why is it so heavily emphasized in their marketing?
Far be it from me to stop anybody from shopping where they want to shop, but is it some kind of dreadful faux pas to register any criticism of these places?
posted by jonmc at 10:35 AM on January 24, 2006
Finally, no place on earth smells as bad as Chinatown.
You have never been to western Kansas then.
posted by ozomatli at 10:36 AM on January 24, 2006
You have never been to western Kansas then.
posted by ozomatli at 10:36 AM on January 24, 2006
But where are we supposed to get pop tarts, marshmallow fluff, wonder bread and fruity pebbles, huh?
I don't do all my shopping at Whole Foods. I just buy specific stuff that I mentioned there. For the rest, I go to a more mundane grocery store -- Harris Teeter. And I could probably get by with just going there, and when I'm economizing, that's what I do. But life is too short to exist on ramen and pop tarts.
posted by crunchland at 10:36 AM on January 24, 2006
I don't do all my shopping at Whole Foods. I just buy specific stuff that I mentioned there. For the rest, I go to a more mundane grocery store -- Harris Teeter. And I could probably get by with just going there, and when I'm economizing, that's what I do. But life is too short to exist on ramen and pop tarts.
posted by crunchland at 10:36 AM on January 24, 2006
Jon, it is amazing to me that I still love you despite your annoy schtick.
you love me because of it. you wouldn't have me any other way. and you know it ;>
posted by jonmc at 10:36 AM on January 24, 2006
you love me because of it. you wouldn't have me any other way. and you know it ;>
posted by jonmc at 10:36 AM on January 24, 2006
Ok, so maybe it wasn't pinkish exactly... but I'm pretty sure the apple was a Honey Crisp. Damn good.
posted by Witty at 9:33 AM PST on January 24
If it made you weep, it was probably a Honey Crisp. They are pretty much the greatest food ever.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:38 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by Witty at 9:33 AM PST on January 24
If it made you weep, it was probably a Honey Crisp. They are pretty much the greatest food ever.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:38 AM on January 24, 2006
I was driving in NYC on Canal Street near Chinatown last week. It just so happened that I witnessed workers unloading a truck filled with fish accidentally spill several large containers of chilled fish and ice onto the street and sidewalk. (Yes, onto a very, very, very dirty Canal street.) YUM!
posted by R. Mutt at 10:38 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by R. Mutt at 10:38 AM on January 24, 2006
I don't know anyone who shops at Whole Foods because they think it's some kind of humanitarian act, or because they want to look cool.
Then why is it so heavily emphasized in their marketing?
So a man who does not like or even shop at a store knows the intracacies of its marketing philosophies. What axe are you grinding?
posted by billysumday at 10:38 AM on January 24, 2006
Then why is it so heavily emphasized in their marketing?
So a man who does not like or even shop at a store knows the intracacies of its marketing philosophies. What axe are you grinding?
posted by billysumday at 10:38 AM on January 24, 2006
But life is too short to exist on ramen and pop tarts.
Agreed, and lest you think I subsist entirely on junk food, I do have some upscale tastes. And in my relatively modest neighborhood in Queens there are numerous ethnic delis, fruit stands and groceries within walking distance of my apartment*. I'd much rather patronize them than another mall, no matter how warm-and-fuzzy they are.
*I couldn't tell you whether they're organic or not. Don't know much about that.
posted by jonmc at 10:39 AM on January 24, 2006
Agreed, and lest you think I subsist entirely on junk food, I do have some upscale tastes. And in my relatively modest neighborhood in Queens there are numerous ethnic delis, fruit stands and groceries within walking distance of my apartment*. I'd much rather patronize them than another mall, no matter how warm-and-fuzzy they are.
*I couldn't tell you whether they're organic or not. Don't know much about that.
posted by jonmc at 10:39 AM on January 24, 2006
For many people shopping at Whole Foods is a status symbol, like carrying a thousand dollar purse. It shows you have money to waste and you don't mind doing it.
posted by ozomatli at 10:40 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by ozomatli at 10:40 AM on January 24, 2006
So a man who does not like or even shop at a store knows the intracacies of its marketing philosophies.
I have been in a Whole Foods. I do believe in 'don't knock it till you try it.' And I see the same advertising as anyone else. And the names of the places 'Whole Foods,' 'Wild Oats,' do seem to indicate a crunchier image than say Key Food or Shop-Rite.
posted by jonmc at 10:41 AM on January 24, 2006
I have been in a Whole Foods. I do believe in 'don't knock it till you try it.' And I see the same advertising as anyone else. And the names of the places 'Whole Foods,' 'Wild Oats,' do seem to indicate a crunchier image than say Key Food or Shop-Rite.
posted by jonmc at 10:41 AM on January 24, 2006
Until you smell feedlots after the rain or rendering plants you don't know what bad smells like.
posted by ozomatli at 10:44 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by ozomatli at 10:44 AM on January 24, 2006
but is it some kind of dreadful faux pas to register any criticism of these places?
It's not the criticism of Whole Foods. It's the idea that their opposition to suburban NIMBYs who want to keep their neighborhood development-free (except for their own houses, of course) represents some kind of hypocrisy.
posted by transona5 at 10:45 AM on January 24, 2006
It's not the criticism of Whole Foods. It's the idea that their opposition to suburban NIMBYs who want to keep their neighborhood development-free (except for their own houses, of course) represents some kind of hypocrisy.
posted by transona5 at 10:45 AM on January 24, 2006
Until you smell feedlots after the rain or rendering plants you don't know what bad smells like.
try the dumpster of an industrial bakery on a hot humid day. the memory still haunts me.
It's the idea that their opposition to suburban NIMBYs who want to keep their neighborhood development-free (except for their own houses, of course) represents some kind of hypocrisy.
That isn't really my main beef with them. I just find it kind of funny is all, and I'll admit that I'm mainly smarting off. Sometimes, you all take my tomfoolery a little too seriously.
posted by jonmc at 10:47 AM on January 24, 2006
try the dumpster of an industrial bakery on a hot humid day. the memory still haunts me.
It's the idea that their opposition to suburban NIMBYs who want to keep their neighborhood development-free (except for their own houses, of course) represents some kind of hypocrisy.
That isn't really my main beef with them. I just find it kind of funny is all, and I'll admit that I'm mainly smarting off. Sometimes, you all take my tomfoolery a little too seriously.
posted by jonmc at 10:47 AM on January 24, 2006
I dunno, ozomatli. Is that really worse that fish, spit, and decaying rats?
Also, to refer to the thousand-dollar purse comment, you know some people prefer to buy fewer nice things than more crappy ones. I've been working on changing my life to the former and I've wound up much happier. And less cluttered.
posted by dame at 10:50 AM on January 24, 2006
Also, to refer to the thousand-dollar purse comment, you know some people prefer to buy fewer nice things than more crappy ones. I've been working on changing my life to the former and I've wound up much happier. And less cluttered.
posted by dame at 10:50 AM on January 24, 2006
It's like a great big aquatic snuff film.
Yoink!
I have nothing of my own to contribute, having never actually set food in a Whole Foods myself, but I do think this thread has been an interesting read. Kudos, y'all.
posted by Gator at 10:50 AM on January 24, 2006
Yoink!
I have nothing of my own to contribute, having never actually set food in a Whole Foods myself, but I do think this thread has been an interesting read. Kudos, y'all.
posted by Gator at 10:50 AM on January 24, 2006
Finally, no place on earth smells as bad as Chinatown.
China maybe? Think Chinatown times 1 million.
But you New Yorkers can go on yapping away about the meaninglessness of 17 acres of trees. I'm sure you have considerable experience to enlighten you. Perhaps we should clear Central Park and put up some more office towers. I'm sure the city could use the revenue, no?
Not a New Yorker, I do, however own land in rural Indiana, no, not suburban Indiana as this story come to us, rural, where there are still bears and wolves and trees far larger than you two arms can encircle. There's not much land like that, partly because of Indy and other cities have been built on a plan of endless sprawl and larger and larger freeways, but partly because very little of that kind of land existed to start with in Indiana.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:51 AM on January 24, 2006
China maybe? Think Chinatown times 1 million.
But you New Yorkers can go on yapping away about the meaninglessness of 17 acres of trees. I'm sure you have considerable experience to enlighten you. Perhaps we should clear Central Park and put up some more office towers. I'm sure the city could use the revenue, no?
Not a New Yorker, I do, however own land in rural Indiana, no, not suburban Indiana as this story come to us, rural, where there are still bears and wolves and trees far larger than you two arms can encircle. There's not much land like that, partly because of Indy and other cities have been built on a plan of endless sprawl and larger and larger freeways, but partly because very little of that kind of land existed to start with in Indiana.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:51 AM on January 24, 2006
i miss trader joes and my bottles of 2 buck chuck
when i was in san diego i stayed away from whole foods because it was overpriced and snobbish.
henrys markets had better meat, and better produce. the hillcrest farmers markets was fantastic as well.
now that i am back in nyc, i find myself in wholefoods quite a bit. mostly because the price of the meats is about even with the prices i find in my local supermarket but the quality is mucho better.
posted by hpsell at 10:54 AM on January 24, 2006
when i was in san diego i stayed away from whole foods because it was overpriced and snobbish.
henrys markets had better meat, and better produce. the hillcrest farmers markets was fantastic as well.
now that i am back in nyc, i find myself in wholefoods quite a bit. mostly because the price of the meats is about even with the prices i find in my local supermarket but the quality is mucho better.
posted by hpsell at 10:54 AM on January 24, 2006
Chinatown is my one-stop for everything cheap-- basics and exotics. And I take the subway straight there from Queens. That aside, what I love about living in the city is that on the days I'm feeling lazy, Myrtle ave is just a few blocks away and also has everything cheap/basic/exotic. In fact, everywhere I look, there's yet another street with an awesome bakery next to a produce stand next to a butcher, all in a row. Short trip. More fun. At WF I gotta push and shove and wait in lines that make me feel like I ought to have did my hair alittle.
posted by anda L. at 10:55 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by anda L. at 10:55 AM on January 24, 2006
Witty: Jonagold is another apple that fits your description. It can grow to impressive size and has a wonderful taste. It's not very expensive though, at least here in Sweden (lucky for me).
posted by rycee at 10:55 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by rycee at 10:55 AM on January 24, 2006
dame: What does western Kansas smell like?
Imagine taking the combined waste products of 5,000 pigs or 25,000 head of cattle and concentrating it into multi-million gallon storage pits sitting under the hot summer sun. Toss in the carcasses of animals into this soup, as well as anything that gets too close to the pits without a respirator.
Now imagine entire "countrysides" dotted with these operations.
posted by nathan_teske at 10:58 AM on January 24, 2006
Imagine taking the combined waste products of 5,000 pigs or 25,000 head of cattle and concentrating it into multi-million gallon storage pits sitting under the hot summer sun. Toss in the carcasses of animals into this soup, as well as anything that gets too close to the pits without a respirator.
Now imagine entire "countrysides" dotted with these operations.
posted by nathan_teske at 10:58 AM on January 24, 2006
Yes, but do they carry Portabella mushrooms?
here in Boston they call it Whole Wallet
posted by mowglisambo at 10:59 AM on January 24, 2006
here in Boston they call it Whole Wallet
posted by mowglisambo at 10:59 AM on January 24, 2006
They sell organic "pop tarts" at Whole Foods. I bought two boxes last time I was there.
And after my family and I were done smugly stepping over the homeless to purchase some organic milk and baby food, we took off our "save the rainforest" T-shirts and did the rest of our grocery shopping at Aldi.
posted by Otis at 10:59 AM on January 24, 2006
And after my family and I were done smugly stepping over the homeless to purchase some organic milk and baby food, we took off our "save the rainforest" T-shirts and did the rest of our grocery shopping at Aldi.
posted by Otis at 10:59 AM on January 24, 2006
you call those toaster pastries? No sprinkles, no chocolate chip cookie dough flavor. Feh.
posted by jonmc at 11:02 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by jonmc at 11:02 AM on January 24, 2006
I dunno, ozomatli. Is that really worse that fish, spit, and decaying rats?
Oh yes, much worse. It's really the large area of contamination. I'm talking you can't get away from it and it never goes away.
Also, to refer to the thousand-dollar purse comment, you know some people prefer to buy fewer nice things than more crappy ones. I've been working on changing my life to the former and I've wound up much happier. And less cluttered.
While some people no doubt shop for what they think (or maybe could be) higher quality, Whole Foods is a classic exmaple of pricing up to show quality. It is percieved to be better becuase it costs more. They sell luxury foods. The emergence of places like Whole Foods is that it gives people the feeling that what they are buying is of that much higher quality.
posted by ozomatli at 11:03 AM on January 24, 2006
Oh yes, much worse. It's really the large area of contamination. I'm talking you can't get away from it and it never goes away.
Also, to refer to the thousand-dollar purse comment, you know some people prefer to buy fewer nice things than more crappy ones. I've been working on changing my life to the former and I've wound up much happier. And less cluttered.
While some people no doubt shop for what they think (or maybe could be) higher quality, Whole Foods is a classic exmaple of pricing up to show quality. It is percieved to be better becuase it costs more. They sell luxury foods. The emergence of places like Whole Foods is that it gives people the feeling that what they are buying is of that much higher quality.
posted by ozomatli at 11:03 AM on January 24, 2006
The argument of one-stop-store convenience for consumer is a rather weak one : if this really was a priority multi level commercial centers would make a lot more sense.
All the heavyweight goes underground or level 0 , fashion and light stuff goes level 1-2 . All in one parking space, just take an elevatore to everywhere ; construction techonology is here, so what's the problem with just building one Giga Multilevel Mall, maybe connected to train or metro ?
That would further reduce pollution, traffic and eventually also transportation costs and save a lot of surface that could be left in a wild state or returned to.
posted by elpapacito at 11:05 AM on January 24, 2006
All the heavyweight goes underground or level 0 , fashion and light stuff goes level 1-2 . All in one parking space, just take an elevatore to everywhere ; construction techonology is here, so what's the problem with just building one Giga Multilevel Mall, maybe connected to train or metro ?
That would further reduce pollution, traffic and eventually also transportation costs and save a lot of surface that could be left in a wild state or returned to.
posted by elpapacito at 11:05 AM on January 24, 2006
Maybe you're right about Kansas. But you've never been to a C Town or an Associated if you think they are just pricing up for quality. It's sad: I'd be thrilled to get even a Key Food.
And it's true, you can take the subway straight from Queens to Chinatown. But then when you get home, you still live in Queens.
posted by dame at 11:08 AM on January 24, 2006
And it's true, you can take the subway straight from Queens to Chinatown. But then when you get home, you still live in Queens.
posted by dame at 11:08 AM on January 24, 2006
you've never been to a C Town or an Associated
I'm with you on this. C-Town and Trade Fair are just dingy and depressing.
But then when you get home, you still live in Queens.
*scowls*
/new york thing
posted by jonmc at 11:10 AM on January 24, 2006
I'm with you on this. C-Town and Trade Fair are just dingy and depressing.
But then when you get home, you still live in Queens.
*scowls*
/new york thing
posted by jonmc at 11:10 AM on January 24, 2006
Heh, elpapacito, you just described the duilding my Whole Foods is in. And I think that's what the suburbanites need. But you know, we have a name for a conglomeration of multilevel, multipurpose buildings with subway access: city.
posted by dame at 11:11 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by dame at 11:11 AM on January 24, 2006
Oh, jon, but there is one fabulous ghetto food store that I'd go to if it were near my train: the Food Dimension. It's like the Fairway of Bed-Stuy.
posted by dame at 11:12 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by dame at 11:12 AM on January 24, 2006
The emergence of places like Whole Foods is that it gives people the feeling that what they are buying is of that much higher quality.
I think I can tell the difference between the Fromage d'Affinois at Whole Foods and the Brie available at Kroger. Not to mention the difference between La Fin du Monde (not sold at any other grocery store in town) and Miller Lite.
posted by transona5 at 11:12 AM on January 24, 2006
I think I can tell the difference between the Fromage d'Affinois at Whole Foods and the Brie available at Kroger. Not to mention the difference between La Fin du Monde (not sold at any other grocery store in town) and Miller Lite.
posted by transona5 at 11:12 AM on January 24, 2006
dame: you people is curious, we call it Harrods and man it's really a multilevel. And very very yuppy, but think it a little more rural and less yuppy.
posted by elpapacito at 11:14 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by elpapacito at 11:14 AM on January 24, 2006
Food Dimension? That's Beautiful, man.
Back in Bridgeport, there was this decrepit old supermarket called Food World that featured food with tie-ins to movies that had gone to video two years earlier and these, one of the best tasting bags of chips ever.
posted by jonmc at 11:14 AM on January 24, 2006
Back in Bridgeport, there was this decrepit old supermarket called Food World that featured food with tie-ins to movies that had gone to video two years earlier and these, one of the best tasting bags of chips ever.
posted by jonmc at 11:14 AM on January 24, 2006
Goofyy writes "Maybe you noisy assholes that think the 17 acres is oh, so unimportant, have never witnessed the demise of sub/urban green land before."
Actually, yes I have. It sucks, I know, but 17 acres of land hemmed in by development on all sides is ecologically dead... it just does't know it yet. It's no use getting your underoos in a wad after the fact. If you don't want to encourage that sort of thing, don't live in the burbs. That's part of why I don't live in those areas anymore. But when people who live in suburbia start bitching about the environmental impact of suburban sprawl... color me suspicous.
If this had been some store other than Whole Food, nobody would have even thought of casting the issue in environmental terms. These people are worried about traffic, aesthetic issues and property values, not trees. If that land were clearcut to make way for more houses, nobody would blink an eye, and that is what would happen eventually if it weren't for the store.
By the way, you might want to think twice about calling people you disagree with "assholes." It's... uh... you know... kind of rude.
posted by brundlefly at 11:14 AM on January 24, 2006
Actually, yes I have. It sucks, I know, but 17 acres of land hemmed in by development on all sides is ecologically dead... it just does't know it yet. It's no use getting your underoos in a wad after the fact. If you don't want to encourage that sort of thing, don't live in the burbs. That's part of why I don't live in those areas anymore. But when people who live in suburbia start bitching about the environmental impact of suburban sprawl... color me suspicous.
If this had been some store other than Whole Food, nobody would have even thought of casting the issue in environmental terms. These people are worried about traffic, aesthetic issues and property values, not trees. If that land were clearcut to make way for more houses, nobody would blink an eye, and that is what would happen eventually if it weren't for the store.
By the way, you might want to think twice about calling people you disagree with "assholes." It's... uh... you know... kind of rude.
posted by brundlefly at 11:14 AM on January 24, 2006
I think I can tell the difference between the Fromage d'Affinois at Whole Foods and the Brie available at Kroger. Not to mention the difference between La Fin du Monde (not sold at any other grocery store in town) and Miller Lite.
Well sure if you translate "hey its french and imported so it must be better" into higher quality. I would love to see you do a double blind taste test though. It would be an interesting study.
posted by ozomatli at 11:15 AM on January 24, 2006
Well sure if you translate "hey its french and imported so it must be better" into higher quality. I would love to see you do a double blind taste test though. It would be an interesting study.
posted by ozomatli at 11:15 AM on January 24, 2006
Not to mention the difference between La Fin du Monde (not sold at any other grocery store in town) and Miller Lite.
You need to move to new york. half the corner bodegas have La Fin in the cooler right next to the Budweiser and malt liquor*. I enjoy both often. But not Miller Lite. I have some standards.
*I am not kidding. I love this city.
posted by jonmc at 11:16 AM on January 24, 2006
You need to move to new york. half the corner bodegas have La Fin in the cooler right next to the Budweiser and malt liquor*. I enjoy both often. But not Miller Lite. I have some standards.
*I am not kidding. I love this city.
posted by jonmc at 11:16 AM on January 24, 2006
Well sure if you translate "hey its french and imported so it must be better" into higher quality. I would love to see you do a double blind taste test though. It would be an interesting study.
La Fin Du Monde is almost 10% alcohol. He'd be able to tell 'em apart trust me.
posted by jonmc at 11:17 AM on January 24, 2006
La Fin Du Monde is almost 10% alcohol. He'd be able to tell 'em apart trust me.
posted by jonmc at 11:17 AM on January 24, 2006
You need to move to new york.
But Ann Arbor is "the Manhattan of the Midwest"! (Yes, I'm kidding. I'm out of here the minute I'm done with grad school.)
posted by transona5 at 11:19 AM on January 24, 2006
But Ann Arbor is "the Manhattan of the Midwest"! (Yes, I'm kidding. I'm out of here the minute I'm done with grad school.)
posted by transona5 at 11:19 AM on January 24, 2006
Ha, elpapcito. And, jon, I wish they had T-shirts, I swear. You should see the sign. I'll take you someday. If anyone has Soul Chips, it's the Food Dimension. Only they don't have jackets for their walk-in cooler.
posted by dame at 11:20 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by dame at 11:20 AM on January 24, 2006
La Fin Du Monde is almost 10% alcohol. He'd be able to tell 'em apart trust me.
Well then sure if you compare an apple to an orange you can tell. I was more referring to the cheese, but compare the same kinds of beer at least. Hell anyone could tell the difference between grey goose vodka and meyer's rum.
posted by ozomatli at 11:21 AM on January 24, 2006
Well then sure if you compare an apple to an orange you can tell. I was more referring to the cheese, but compare the same kinds of beer at least. Hell anyone could tell the difference between grey goose vodka and meyer's rum.
posted by ozomatli at 11:21 AM on January 24, 2006
You can tell with the cheese too. And some Whole Foods cheese I actually like less. It's quite varied.
posted by transona5 at 11:22 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by transona5 at 11:22 AM on January 24, 2006
ozomatli, I see your larger point, but cheese and beer are probably bad choices of comparison since quality differences are fairly apparent with them.
posted by jonmc at 11:23 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by jonmc at 11:23 AM on January 24, 2006
And some Whole Foods cheese I actually like less
That's one thing that turned me off to Trader Joes. Aesthetics and politics aside. The crab cakes were delicious, but the cold cuts, yeech. Weird aftertaste. Gimme a good mom & pop italian deli anytime.
posted by jonmc at 11:24 AM on January 24, 2006
That's one thing that turned me off to Trader Joes. Aesthetics and politics aside. The crab cakes were delicious, but the cold cuts, yeech. Weird aftertaste. Gimme a good mom & pop italian deli anytime.
posted by jonmc at 11:24 AM on January 24, 2006
It's my money. Why do you care how I spend it and where?
posted by crunchland at 11:25 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by crunchland at 11:25 AM on January 24, 2006
Ultimately, I don't. but it's fun to trade storie and theories.
posted by jonmc at 11:26 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by jonmc at 11:26 AM on January 24, 2006
AFAIK, Honey Crisps grow pretty small.
Most apples will come in small to megamassive sizes, depending on how they're grown. American consumers like big things so you generally see really big apples. The smaller ones tend to be firmer, crisper, less mealy, and tastier, IMHO.
The only good thing about my abysmal local Co-op is its deal with a Michigan apple grower, who brings end endless varieties of apples, always with notes like "George Washington's favorite apple!" [That would be the Newtown Pippin (which originiated in Queens, btw).]
posted by nflorin at 11:28 AM on January 24, 2006
Most apples will come in small to megamassive sizes, depending on how they're grown. American consumers like big things so you generally see really big apples. The smaller ones tend to be firmer, crisper, less mealy, and tastier, IMHO.
The only good thing about my abysmal local Co-op is its deal with a Michigan apple grower, who brings end endless varieties of apples, always with notes like "George Washington's favorite apple!" [That would be the Newtown Pippin (which originiated in Queens, btw).]
posted by nflorin at 11:28 AM on January 24, 2006
You can tell with the cheese too. And some Whole Foods cheese I actually like less. It's quite varied.
posted by transona5 at 1:22 PM CST on January 24 [!]
I guess that was kind of maybe my point (made in a very muddled way on my part) that higher prices do not always translate to higher quality. Whole Foods relies a lot on lazy consumers who will buy the more expenisive brand assmuing its better. For many equlivalent things WF is higher priced, (for many reasons), but one being the perception of premium.
ozomatli, I see your larger point, but cheese and beer are probably bad choices of comparison since quality differences are fairly apparent with them.
posted by jonmc at 1:23 PM CST on January 24 [!]
Yeah I know, I just don't want beer to become over priced by yuppies like wine-snobs did to liquor.
posted by ozomatli at 11:29 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by transona5 at 1:22 PM CST on January 24 [!]
I guess that was kind of maybe my point (made in a very muddled way on my part) that higher prices do not always translate to higher quality. Whole Foods relies a lot on lazy consumers who will buy the more expenisive brand assmuing its better. For many equlivalent things WF is higher priced, (for many reasons), but one being the perception of premium.
ozomatli, I see your larger point, but cheese and beer are probably bad choices of comparison since quality differences are fairly apparent with them.
posted by jonmc at 1:23 PM CST on January 24 [!]
Yeah I know, I just don't want beer to become over priced by yuppies like wine-snobs did to liquor.
posted by ozomatli at 11:29 AM on January 24, 2006
Well sure if you translate "hey its french and imported so it must be better" into higher quality.
Fin du Monde is Quebecois!
posted by nflorin at 11:30 AM on January 24, 2006
Fin du Monde is Quebecois!
posted by nflorin at 11:30 AM on January 24, 2006
OK, that settles it , instead of a WF its a 17 acre Burger King, parking, drive thru and playscape with landscaping that will be built on the site.
posted by R. Mutt at 11:31 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by R. Mutt at 11:31 AM on January 24, 2006
Wal-Mart
posted by Pollomacho at 11:33 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by Pollomacho at 11:33 AM on January 24, 2006
Yeah I know, I just don't want beer to become over priced by yuppies like wine-snobs did to liquor.
I get you, and I'll agree that sometimes the microbrew thing got to be a bit much. and I love drinking Bud too. But it's nice to have some variety and that some of the Euro beers are easier to find now.
posted by jonmc at 11:33 AM on January 24, 2006
I get you, and I'll agree that sometimes the microbrew thing got to be a bit much. and I love drinking Bud too. But it's nice to have some variety and that some of the Euro beers are easier to find now.
posted by jonmc at 11:33 AM on January 24, 2006
get you, and I'll agree that sometimes the microbrew thing got to be a bit much. and I love drinking Bud too. But it's nice to have some variety and that some of the Euro beers are easier to find now.
posted by jonmc at 1:33 PM CST on January 24 [!]
I do love trying new beers...
I should get a job drinking new beers. Maybe conquer the world of brews!!
posted by ozomatli at 11:36 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by jonmc at 1:33 PM CST on January 24 [!]
I do love trying new beers...
I should get a job drinking new beers. Maybe conquer the world of brews!!
posted by ozomatli at 11:36 AM on January 24, 2006
hey, dame, ever check out the food bazaar at the myrtle/wyckoff stop on the L (bout a block from the train on myrtle ave)? its a nice, huge supermarket and has a bunch of veggie products. easy to get to if you dont feel like going to the city. i didnt peruse the produce much but it was way better than ctown and associated.
posted by c at 11:37 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by c at 11:37 AM on January 24, 2006
(That really wasn't directed at you, Jon.)
Back to the point at hand, 17 acres really isn't that much space. It's only 170 square chains ... or 2720 square rods. Heck, it's less than 7 hectares, for pete's sake!!
posted by crunchland at 11:38 AM on January 24, 2006
Back to the point at hand, 17 acres really isn't that much space. It's only 170 square chains ... or 2720 square rods. Heck, it's less than 7 hectares, for pete's sake!!
posted by crunchland at 11:38 AM on January 24, 2006
Here is a link to the Windows Live Local Birdseye view of the location.
posted by internal at 11:39 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by internal at 11:39 AM on January 24, 2006
I should get a job drinking new beers.
If you do, ask if they're still hiring.
posted by jonmc at 11:39 AM on January 24, 2006
If you do, ask if they're still hiring.
posted by jonmc at 11:39 AM on January 24, 2006
Food Bazaar, eh? I never go that way, but now that I'm moving to the DeKalb stop, so I'll be even closer. I'll totally check it out.
Jon, just become a night watchman somewhere.
posted by dame at 11:47 AM on January 24, 2006
Jon, just become a night watchman somewhere.
posted by dame at 11:47 AM on January 24, 2006
crunchland: but it's more then 16 acres !
posted by elpapacito at 11:48 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by elpapacito at 11:48 AM on January 24, 2006
ozomatli writes "Until you smell feedlots after the rain or rendering plants you don't know what bad smells like."
I'll see your feed lot and raise you a rendering plant. The smell is not only totally overpowering it also quickly seeps into everything. After a weekend visit to my sister who was working for Lakeside at the time our car smelled bad for weeks.
posted by Mitheral at 11:52 AM on January 24, 2006
I'll see your feed lot and raise you a rendering plant. The smell is not only totally overpowering it also quickly seeps into everything. After a weekend visit to my sister who was working for Lakeside at the time our car smelled bad for weeks.
posted by Mitheral at 11:52 AM on January 24, 2006
yeah im at dekalb so its just a hop and a skip. youll also find a bona fide duane reade out there!!! small joys in my life.
posted by c at 11:55 AM on January 24, 2006
posted by c at 11:55 AM on January 24, 2006
Sometimes we host a Beerlympics in which six mystery beers must be matched with six names. The "American Swill" round, traditionally held as the semi-final, is just a brutal blue-collar punch to the tastebuds after so many Stones, Unibroues, and Dogfishheads.
The American Swills do sneak into other rounds, though, and it's interesting to see the pause as someone sips an unfamiliar lager or pilsner and wonders if its something available from the packy around the corner. It's even more amazing to hear some of the descriptions Olde English 800 received when it was poured as a mystery beer into fine stemware.
Packaging and presentation matter. If you know you're facing a round of generic American suds, you frown and brace yourself for what you're about to endure. If you're given a fine fluted glass and told you are trying "a beer that you've probably never had before" you start to ponder obscure Belgians or West Coast Steam Beers.
Whole Foods is, to me, that fine fluted glass. There could be something great in there, or it could be Malt Liquor all gussied up. People drink from it because it looks good and the presentation makes whatever inside better, regardless of what it really is.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:58 AM on January 24, 2006
The American Swills do sneak into other rounds, though, and it's interesting to see the pause as someone sips an unfamiliar lager or pilsner and wonders if its something available from the packy around the corner. It's even more amazing to hear some of the descriptions Olde English 800 received when it was poured as a mystery beer into fine stemware.
Packaging and presentation matter. If you know you're facing a round of generic American suds, you frown and brace yourself for what you're about to endure. If you're given a fine fluted glass and told you are trying "a beer that you've probably never had before" you start to ponder obscure Belgians or West Coast Steam Beers.
Whole Foods is, to me, that fine fluted glass. There could be something great in there, or it could be Malt Liquor all gussied up. People drink from it because it looks good and the presentation makes whatever inside better, regardless of what it really is.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:58 AM on January 24, 2006
ozomatli writes "Until you smell feedlots after the rain or rendering plants you don't know what bad smells like."
I'll see your feed lot and raise you a rendering plant. The smell is not only totally overpowering it also quickly seeps into everything. After a weekend visit to my sister who was working for Lakeside at the time our car smelled bad for weeks.
posted by Mitheral at 1:52 PM CST on January 24 [!]
Oh I agree, in fact that is what I said.
posted by ozomatli at 12:06 PM on January 24, 2006
I'll see your feed lot and raise you a rendering plant. The smell is not only totally overpowering it also quickly seeps into everything. After a weekend visit to my sister who was working for Lakeside at the time our car smelled bad for weeks.
posted by Mitheral at 1:52 PM CST on January 24 [!]
Oh I agree, in fact that is what I said.
posted by ozomatli at 12:06 PM on January 24, 2006
You do already. Especially in flannel.
I'd look silly no matter what I was wearing, but in flannel, denim & cotton, I can spill stuff on myself at will and not worry about damage, aesthetic or otherwise.
posted by jonmc at 12:11 PM on January 24, 2006
I'd look silly no matter what I was wearing, but in flannel, denim & cotton, I can spill stuff on myself at will and not worry about damage, aesthetic or otherwise.
posted by jonmc at 12:11 PM on January 24, 2006
The makings of a great movie:
A company founded by a Reagan-loving, union-busting Libertarian that sells its image and products to BMW-driving yuppies, and wants to open a store in right-wing, whitebread Indianapolis.
posted by mountainmambo at 12:29 PM on January 24, 2006
A company founded by a Reagan-loving, union-busting Libertarian that sells its image and products to BMW-driving yuppies, and wants to open a store in right-wing, whitebread Indianapolis.
posted by mountainmambo at 12:29 PM on January 24, 2006
What I don't get is that many times, (I'm not sure in this case), there are plenty of unused/vacant buildings in the immediate area that could just as soon be used/demolished for the same purpose as developing the unused land.
Where I live, there are numerious office/industrial buildings that are "see through" When we drive by, you can look through one sides windows straight through to the other side. They are vacant. they've been vacant for years with a peeling realty sign out front. No one wants it. But still, they keep building new speculative office buildings with no owners in sight.
I think that building new is more desireable because then you own the land with a brand new building on it, and it increases (theoretically) the property value, assuming you can eventually get tenants.
There is a whole debate over 'urban renewal/eminant domain' going on at the same time. There is an area that has family owned buisinesses that have been in the same location for 25-40 years, and doing well. The city council wants to eminant domain several blocks of privately owned property to urbanize it and put in a Sam's Club (to go with the other 7 we already have), Grease Monkey, Taco Bell, and other national retailers.
It makes me sick.
posted by Balisong at 12:40 PM on January 24, 2006
Where I live, there are numerious office/industrial buildings that are "see through" When we drive by, you can look through one sides windows straight through to the other side. They are vacant. they've been vacant for years with a peeling realty sign out front. No one wants it. But still, they keep building new speculative office buildings with no owners in sight.
I think that building new is more desireable because then you own the land with a brand new building on it, and it increases (theoretically) the property value, assuming you can eventually get tenants.
There is a whole debate over 'urban renewal/eminant domain' going on at the same time. There is an area that has family owned buisinesses that have been in the same location for 25-40 years, and doing well. The city council wants to eminant domain several blocks of privately owned property to urbanize it and put in a Sam's Club (to go with the other 7 we already have), Grease Monkey, Taco Bell, and other national retailers.
It makes me sick.
posted by Balisong at 12:40 PM on January 24, 2006
ozomatli writes "Oh I agree, in fact that is what I said."
I can't beleive I missed that; well count my comment as a big second to your original then.
posted by Mitheral at 12:41 PM on January 24, 2006
I can't beleive I missed that; well count my comment as a big second to your original then.
posted by Mitheral at 12:41 PM on January 24, 2006
to paraphrase and/or mangle a famous quote, this thread looks like this to me:
"i prefer the conglomeration of corporate interests that sells grocery goods on the right."
"the conglomeration of corporate interests that sells grocery goods on the left is more to my liking."
"hey, there's one group of guys making money no matter where you shop!"
"shut up!"
posted by lord_wolf at 12:47 PM on January 24, 2006
"i prefer the conglomeration of corporate interests that sells grocery goods on the right."
"the conglomeration of corporate interests that sells grocery goods on the left is more to my liking."
"hey, there's one group of guys making money no matter where you shop!"
"shut up!"
posted by lord_wolf at 12:47 PM on January 24, 2006
Interesting story about Whole Foods here in Portland: Originally, there was one independent health food store in town, called the Whole Grocer. A few years back, the Wild Oats chain opened a store across the parking lot from the local independent. After a brief slump, business at the indy store bounced back and flourished.
Finally, last week it was announced that Whole Foods would be buying out the independent store, eventually closing it and will eventuall replace it with a much larger store than Wild Oats a few blocks away.
In the end, it's all free enterprise.
posted by SteveInMaine at 12:57 PM on January 24, 2006
Finally, last week it was announced that Whole Foods would be buying out the independent store, eventually closing it and will eventuall replace it with a much larger store than Wild Oats a few blocks away.
In the end, it's all free enterprise.
posted by SteveInMaine at 12:57 PM on January 24, 2006
A topic near and dear to many hearts here, obviously.
I'm in with the opinion that it's much better than most grocery stores.
I live just south of the Loop in downtown Chicago. There's a mini-Jewel near my office that is terrible. Really bad. I'll go there from time to time for staple goods, but I always feel hosed spending money there. They run out of stuff and the staff are not helpful. The lines at the registers are always long. Several registers are always closed, even at busy times of day.
There's another Jewel about 6-8 blocks from my house that is also pretty bad: cramped aisles, crowded, wilted produce.
A few blocks from my office is a Whole Foods. Clean, well stocked, great produce, meat, seafood and prepared foods. Decent baked goods. Yes, expensive. I go there anyway for stuff I actually want to cook, not ketchup, toilet paper, soda, etc.
Sad fact is, small specialty places are waning. I don't have a car to drive all over the city to get food from different little markets. Only other choices are White Hen and 7-11s. Farmer's markets are great, between May and October. Can't get meat or seafood there, though. GRRRRRRRRRRR......
Stop freakin' politicizing every goddamned thing on planet earth. I am a liberal. I live in a dense, urban area. But I'm not an elitist indy-er-than-thou loudmouth who needs to spout off about every fucking business that opens in my neighborhood. I like to cook. I shop at Whole Foods. It's the best option I have. (yes, I realize I just spouted off...)
posted by jeff-o-matic at 12:58 PM on January 24, 2006
I'm in with the opinion that it's much better than most grocery stores.
I live just south of the Loop in downtown Chicago. There's a mini-Jewel near my office that is terrible. Really bad. I'll go there from time to time for staple goods, but I always feel hosed spending money there. They run out of stuff and the staff are not helpful. The lines at the registers are always long. Several registers are always closed, even at busy times of day.
There's another Jewel about 6-8 blocks from my house that is also pretty bad: cramped aisles, crowded, wilted produce.
A few blocks from my office is a Whole Foods. Clean, well stocked, great produce, meat, seafood and prepared foods. Decent baked goods. Yes, expensive. I go there anyway for stuff I actually want to cook, not ketchup, toilet paper, soda, etc.
Sad fact is, small specialty places are waning. I don't have a car to drive all over the city to get food from different little markets. Only other choices are White Hen and 7-11s. Farmer's markets are great, between May and October. Can't get meat or seafood there, though. GRRRRRRRRRRR......
Stop freakin' politicizing every goddamned thing on planet earth. I am a liberal. I live in a dense, urban area. But I'm not an elitist indy-er-than-thou loudmouth who needs to spout off about every fucking business that opens in my neighborhood. I like to cook. I shop at Whole Foods. It's the best option I have. (yes, I realize I just spouted off...)
posted by jeff-o-matic at 12:58 PM on January 24, 2006
It's like a great big aquatic snuff film.
NO!
posted by PenguinBukkake at 1:11 PM on January 24, 2006
NO!
posted by PenguinBukkake at 1:11 PM on January 24, 2006
Late to this, but...
Pollomacho: Around DC, WF is often still referred to as Fresh Fields, the chain they bought out.
Whole Foods bought out Fresh Fields?
I guess this is another one of those things that I've missed hearing about since moving away from Philly...
posted by May Kasahara at 1:13 PM on January 24, 2006
Pollomacho: Around DC, WF is often still referred to as Fresh Fields, the chain they bought out.
Whole Foods bought out Fresh Fields?
I guess this is another one of those things that I've missed hearing about since moving away from Philly...
posted by May Kasahara at 1:13 PM on January 24, 2006
wants to open a store in right-wing, whitebread Indianapolis.
So overpriced organic produce is only for left-wing cities?
posted by gyc at 1:17 PM on January 24, 2006
So overpriced organic produce is only for left-wing cities?
posted by gyc at 1:17 PM on January 24, 2006
Wow. Whole Foods, delis, farmer's markets, Harris Teeters?????
'Round here if Bilo or Kroger ain't got it, you don't get it. Although in the summer months we get the nice little old men in pickup trucks on the side of the road selling watermelons, tomatos, corn and such. But that's no help at all when I want grapes in January.
posted by teleri025 at 1:50 PM on January 24, 2006
'Round here if Bilo or Kroger ain't got it, you don't get it. Although in the summer months we get the nice little old men in pickup trucks on the side of the road selling watermelons, tomatos, corn and such. But that's no help at all when I want grapes in January.
posted by teleri025 at 1:50 PM on January 24, 2006
To be honest, I don't know anyone that shops for their groceries exclusively at Whole Foods. Almost everyone I know (myself included) buys particular things at WF - meats, cold cuts, cheese, some frozen goods that I can't find anywhere else - and other things at their local supermarket/corner store. For people who live in Manhattan, Whole Foods is a great alternative to many of the local supermarkets (Food Emporium, Gristedes, D'ags, etc.) which are often dirty without the freshest of foods. Some of us are lucky to have great little stores down the street (I do in Murray Hill) but not everyone does.
What I appreciate about Whole Foods is that I can walk in there and not worry about checking the labels for things that I am trying to avoid (i.e. high fructose corn syrup or partially hydrogenated oils) or trying to find the nitrate-free ham because they've already done that screening for me. Some people may call that yuppie or whatever but others care about what is in their food. There really is a difference in taste between doing a roast with nitrate-free pork and the standard pork you get at the supermarket- really!
Ok, now, who's ready to start arguing about if shopping on Fresh Direct and having things delivered makes someone a bad person? :)
posted by moxyberry at 1:53 PM on January 24, 2006
What I appreciate about Whole Foods is that I can walk in there and not worry about checking the labels for things that I am trying to avoid (i.e. high fructose corn syrup or partially hydrogenated oils) or trying to find the nitrate-free ham because they've already done that screening for me. Some people may call that yuppie or whatever but others care about what is in their food. There really is a difference in taste between doing a roast with nitrate-free pork and the standard pork you get at the supermarket- really!
Ok, now, who's ready to start arguing about if shopping on Fresh Direct and having things delivered makes someone a bad person? :)
posted by moxyberry at 1:53 PM on January 24, 2006
forests are irreplacable, buildings come and go. what a sad state of affairs...
posted by moonbird at 1:55 PM on January 24, 2006
posted by moonbird at 1:55 PM on January 24, 2006
Moonbird, forests, actually are more than replaceable. There are more forests now in Indiana than ever before.
It used to be prairie, then it was farm land, then, according to the above poster this particular land was developed for houses which were cleared for a free way and it overgrew over the last 50 years or so.
posted by Pollomacho at 2:10 PM on January 24, 2006
It used to be prairie, then it was farm land, then, according to the above poster this particular land was developed for houses which were cleared for a free way and it overgrew over the last 50 years or so.
posted by Pollomacho at 2:10 PM on January 24, 2006
moonbird writes "forests are irreplaceable"
Bullshit. Reforestation is not only a natural process, but a major industry, important to the lumber economy in the Western US.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:43 PM on January 24, 2006
Bullshit. Reforestation is not only a natural process, but a major industry, important to the lumber economy in the Western US.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:43 PM on January 24, 2006
I think that I shall never see
A poem as lovely as a tree.
A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
Against the sweet earth's flowing breast;
A tree that looks at God all day,
And lifts her leafy arms to pray;
A tree that may in summer wear
A nest of robins in her hair;
Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
Who intimately lives with rain.
Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a tree.
posted by crunchland at 4:06 PM on January 24, 2006
A poem as lovely as a tree.
A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
Against the sweet earth's flowing breast;
A tree that looks at God all day,
And lifts her leafy arms to pray;
A tree that may in summer wear
A nest of robins in her hair;
Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
Who intimately lives with rain.
Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a tree.
posted by crunchland at 4:06 PM on January 24, 2006
and wonders if its something available from the packy around the corner
WTF? Since when did "packy" become any more acceptable than "nigger"?
Speaking of apples... has anyone else noticed that this year's crop is often coated with a thick, sticky wax? Damn near impossible to wash it off. I've had to resort to a scrubbie brush and dish soap. Yuck.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:24 PM on January 24, 2006
WTF? Since when did "packy" become any more acceptable than "nigger"?
Speaking of apples... has anyone else noticed that this year's crop is often coated with a thick, sticky wax? Damn near impossible to wash it off. I've had to resort to a scrubbie brush and dish soap. Yuck.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:24 PM on January 24, 2006
WTF?
It's a US regionalism: New Englandish for "package store"; i.e. liquor store. The origins are not ethnic in nature.
posted by mr_roboto at 4:36 PM on January 24, 2006
It's a US regionalism: New Englandish for "package store"; i.e. liquor store. The origins are not ethnic in nature.
posted by mr_roboto at 4:36 PM on January 24, 2006
It's custom designed for the type of people who get choked up about the Rainforest but will step over a sleeping homeless guy without even noticing.
Who are, of course, far preferable to those who never ponder the Amazon basin and beat homeless people to death.
I have plenty of problems with WF, but a lot of this sounds like knee-jerk trendy hate. Meh.
Seconded (minus the plenty. I just don't shop there.)
I hope Whole Foods keeps plowing on and becomes the Starbucks of organic produce. It will only attract people who would normally shop at Safeway and in the end, grow the market for local & sustainable farming.
Thirded. And I hope wages grow across the board so that everyone can afford food grown sustainably and without pesticides. Hey, I can dream ...
I've been thinking of joining Fresh Direct, or actually, a similar service on the West Coast, but cost seems prohibitive. Any recs (that are cheaper than Rainbow Grocery)?
posted by mrgrimm at 4:39 PM on January 24, 2006
Who are, of course, far preferable to those who never ponder the Amazon basin and beat homeless people to death.
I have plenty of problems with WF, but a lot of this sounds like knee-jerk trendy hate. Meh.
Seconded (minus the plenty. I just don't shop there.)
I hope Whole Foods keeps plowing on and becomes the Starbucks of organic produce. It will only attract people who would normally shop at Safeway and in the end, grow the market for local & sustainable farming.
Thirded. And I hope wages grow across the board so that everyone can afford food grown sustainably and without pesticides. Hey, I can dream ...
I've been thinking of joining Fresh Direct, or actually, a similar service on the West Coast, but cost seems prohibitive. Any recs (that are cheaper than Rainbow Grocery)?
posted by mrgrimm at 4:39 PM on January 24, 2006
The Whole Foods here in Toronto is in the middle of Yorkville, a now extremely expensive and very, very tony neighbourhood that used to be the bohemian 'hood in the 60's and 70's.
I've always found that an interesting phenomenon...
posted by generichuman at 5:14 PM on January 24, 2006
I've always found that an interesting phenomenon...
posted by generichuman at 5:14 PM on January 24, 2006
Who are, of course, far preferable to those who never ponder the Amazon basin and beat homeless people to death.
False dichotomy. C'mon grimm, you're smarter than that. Just cause I'm not on the Whole Foods Cheerleading Squad dosen't make me some kinda fan of nihilistic violence. Weak, dude.
posted by jonmc at 5:14 PM on January 24, 2006
False dichotomy. C'mon grimm, you're smarter than that. Just cause I'm not on the Whole Foods Cheerleading Squad dosen't make me some kinda fan of nihilistic violence. Weak, dude.
posted by jonmc at 5:14 PM on January 24, 2006
Witty, I have no guess what your apple may have been, but I do know that Weston's Antique Apples supplies Whole Foods, they told me when I visited in the fall. (They're in a SW burb of Milwaukee.) They grow lots of varieties, so it could have been one of many, if it came from them.
posted by jonzino at 5:17 PM on January 24, 2006
posted by jonzino at 5:17 PM on January 24, 2006
moonbird writes "forests are irreplacable,"
Forests grow on trees man :)
posted by Mitheral at 5:33 PM on January 24, 2006
Forests grow on trees man :)
posted by Mitheral at 5:33 PM on January 24, 2006
Nothing wrong with the term "packy" except that it might be a bit silly. It is not insulting in any form.
posted by caddis at 6:50 PM on January 24, 2006
posted by caddis at 6:50 PM on January 24, 2006
Yea, "packy" is indeed Boston slang for "package store" = liquor store.
posted by R. Mutt at 7:01 PM on January 24, 2006
posted by R. Mutt at 7:01 PM on January 24, 2006
Nothing wrong with the term "packy" except that it might be a bit silly. It is not insulting in any form.
It is when it's spelled Paki, as in Pakistani. Not that being Pakistani is derogatory, but it's a term used as a slur against South Asians and Middle Easterners in the West, particularly those found running convenience stores.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:05 PM on January 24, 2006
It is when it's spelled Paki, as in Pakistani. Not that being Pakistani is derogatory, but it's a term used as a slur against South Asians and Middle Easterners in the West, particularly those found running convenience stores.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:05 PM on January 24, 2006
No, it wasn't, it was a mistake. But the confusion is justified. It is a very local term and the sentence said:
wonders if its something available from the packy around the corner
Surely you can see where people would get a little freaked out by this, especially seeing as how many folks here had never heard the colloquialism before, only the slur.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:45 PM on January 24, 2006
wonders if its something available from the packy around the corner
Surely you can see where people would get a little freaked out by this, especially seeing as how many folks here had never heard the colloquialism before, only the slur.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:45 PM on January 24, 2006
It's a US regionalism: New Englandish for "package store"; i.e. liquor store. The origins are not ethnic in nature.
Thank goodness. Around here, it's an offensive ethnic slur. Too commonly used.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:34 PM on January 24, 2006
Thank goodness. Around here, it's an offensive ethnic slur. Too commonly used.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:34 PM on January 24, 2006
Witty, I bet it *was* a honey crisp, practically the only fruit I'll eat.
(but I do eat vegetables.)
Also, out here in the chicago burbs, there's a Whole Paycheck right across the parking lot from a Walmart. It makes me laugh and laugh.
posted by sugarfish at 8:38 PM on January 24, 2006
(but I do eat vegetables.)
Also, out here in the chicago burbs, there's a Whole Paycheck right across the parking lot from a Walmart. It makes me laugh and laugh.
posted by sugarfish at 8:38 PM on January 24, 2006
If you want to understand how I felt, replace "packy" with "niggardly." (No offense meant to Scotsmen shopkeepers, I assure you!)
posted by five fresh fish at 8:40 PM on January 24, 2006
posted by five fresh fish at 8:40 PM on January 24, 2006
Call me overly naive, but this sounds a lot more like another case of NIMBY than a glaring example of environmental hypocrisy.
Here's a Google Maps view of that spot. Take a look at the satellite view, then re-read the article, especially with respect to their arguments against placing a store there.
posted by FormlessOne at 3:05 AM on January 25, 2006
Here's a Google Maps view of that spot. Take a look at the satellite view, then re-read the article, especially with respect to their arguments against placing a store there.
posted by FormlessOne at 3:05 AM on January 25, 2006
I worked at Whole Foods for several years. It was my understanding that the executive wage cap (no more than 14% of the average WFM worker's wage) thing didn't include bonuses/ stock options/etc, so was therefore bogus public relations bullshit. Check this out.
posted by theperfectcrime at 6:33 PM on January 25, 2006
posted by theperfectcrime at 6:33 PM on January 25, 2006
Interesting thread rxrfrx. Once again I learn not to discount fff.
posted by caddis at 8:26 PM on January 25, 2006
posted by caddis at 8:26 PM on January 25, 2006
You put me on a clearance sale? Shame!
posted by five fresh fish at 10:09 AM on January 26, 2006
posted by five fresh fish at 10:09 AM on January 26, 2006
Er, crap. Didn't mean to offend with the term 'packy'. I'd hope that my posting history and New Englandy location will see me through to the benefit of the doubt. Sorry!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:43 PM on February 21, 2006
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:43 PM on February 21, 2006
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posted by R. Mutt at 8:54 AM on January 24, 2006