Is this is how Israel treates its anti-war activists?
August 20, 2006 6:17 PM Subscribe
Israel Troops Shooting Anti-War Demonstrators -- Video The Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) has uploaded a video of Israeli border troops firing on unarmed anti-war demonstrators. The video clearly shows the commander of the unit saying, “This is Lebanon!” as he orders his force to fire on retreating demonstrators, and “I will not allow a demonstration during wartime!”
This post was deleted for the following reason: crappy - please pay attention to the siren
Above and beyond what? Sounds like a typical Israeli military action to me.
posted by mischief at 6:21 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by mischief at 6:21 PM on August 20, 2006
Yeah I don't think they believe in free speech either in Israel or Lebanon, unless of course you happen to be saying what 'they' want you to say. It's why messing with the middle east is such a quagmire. Whichever side you choose to support? They won't support us back.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:24 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by ZachsMind at 6:24 PM on August 20, 2006
Above and beyond the warning of another I/P tenebrous thread.
posted by Unregistered User at 6:24 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by Unregistered User at 6:24 PM on August 20, 2006
Above and beyond what? Sounds like a typical Israeli military action to me.
They tried shooting at people who could fight back a couple weeks ago, and given how that turned out it's not surprising they've given up.
posted by delmoi at 6:27 PM on August 20, 2006
They tried shooting at people who could fight back a couple weeks ago, and given how that turned out it's not surprising they've given up.
posted by delmoi at 6:27 PM on August 20, 2006
but yeah this doesn't sound like big news to me. The Israelis also did a 'commando raid' a couple of days ago in Lebanon. It doesn’t seem like they're taking the ceasefire too seriously. But as long as they're not doing the mass casualty inducing activity they were before I don't really care.
posted by delmoi at 6:29 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by delmoi at 6:29 PM on August 20, 2006
Must have been live rounds, as evidenced by all the blood and the people fleeing for their lives. Just like the FPP insinuates.
I don't want to take sides in a fight between idiots. But I'm kind of rooting for the Israelis because I too would like to shoot idiots with beanbags.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:29 PM on August 20, 2006
I don't want to take sides in a fight between idiots. But I'm kind of rooting for the Israelis because I too would like to shoot idiots with beanbags.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:29 PM on August 20, 2006
America: At Least We Try To Hide This Kind Of Shit
Where is America mentioned in this article?
posted by Cyrano at 6:29 PM on August 20, 2006
Where is America mentioned in this article?
posted by Cyrano at 6:29 PM on August 20, 2006
UU: Some factual errors, which you should really try to keep out of your FPP:
This was not in Lebanon, this was in Bil'in, north of Jerusalem. It was part of regular protests against the security fence/wall/barrier, whatever you want to call it.
What was fired was rubber bullets, not live ammo.
The only person hurt was an Israeli lawyer and peace activist, who sustained serious head wounds.
The army said rocks were thrown, though who knows if that was correct or not.
Ha'aretz had an article on this.
posted by blahblahblah at 6:33 PM on August 20, 2006
This was not in Lebanon, this was in Bil'in, north of Jerusalem. It was part of regular protests against the security fence/wall/barrier, whatever you want to call it.
What was fired was rubber bullets, not live ammo.
The only person hurt was an Israeli lawyer and peace activist, who sustained serious head wounds.
The army said rocks were thrown, though who knows if that was correct or not.
Ha'aretz had an article on this.
posted by blahblahblah at 6:33 PM on August 20, 2006
"Where is America mentioned in this article?"
I think that's the point ZeroLives was trying to make, Cyrano. When America does this kind of shit? We try to hide it. We're not directly responsible for this incident, but America has done its fair share of idiotic bloodshed. Hell, anyone who picks up a gun could arguably be accused of idiotic bloodshed.
"You can shoot all the bluejays you want, if'n you can hit'em, but it's a sin to kill a mockingbird." - Harper Lee
Tell that to a bluejay.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:36 PM on August 20, 2006
I think that's the point ZeroLives was trying to make, Cyrano. When America does this kind of shit? We try to hide it. We're not directly responsible for this incident, but America has done its fair share of idiotic bloodshed. Hell, anyone who picks up a gun could arguably be accused of idiotic bloodshed.
"You can shoot all the bluejays you want, if'n you can hit'em, but it's a sin to kill a mockingbird." - Harper Lee
Tell that to a bluejay.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:36 PM on August 20, 2006
When are governments going to realize pulling this kind of thing makes them look, you know . . . bad? It's a quick way to break up a protest, maybe, but it's also a quick way to make people dislike you.
posted by RubicleSpoon at 6:38 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by RubicleSpoon at 6:38 PM on August 20, 2006
Who cares about facts...
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 6:38 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 6:38 PM on August 20, 2006
Well, blahblah
When the commander of the Israeli troops says, "“This is Lebanon!” one would tend to think he knows where he is at, no?
posted by Unregistered User at 6:39 PM on August 20, 2006
When the commander of the Israeli troops says, "“This is Lebanon!” one would tend to think he knows where he is at, no?
posted by Unregistered User at 6:39 PM on August 20, 2006
"“This is Lebanon!” one would tend to think he knows where he is at, no?
Except, Bil'in is in the West Bank, and not in Lebanon...
Don't let that get in your way of making another shitty post full of factual errors...
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 6:46 PM on August 20, 2006
Except, Bil'in is in the West Bank, and not in Lebanon...
Don't let that get in your way of making another shitty post full of factual errors...
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 6:46 PM on August 20, 2006
the text from your link talks about an "Apartheid Wall"... which isn't on the border with Lebanon.
Someone is confused or trying to confuse others.
posted by trinarian at 6:48 PM on August 20, 2006
Someone is confused or trying to confuse others.
posted by trinarian at 6:48 PM on August 20, 2006
Bullets were rubber. As for the remark about the commando raid, does the commenter know about the 6 planes out of Syria, spotted by US sattelitye, piled with missles on the way to Syria for delivery to s. Lebanon in total violation of the peace accord? That Syria and Iran are rearming Hezbollah despite the agreement...or does that not matter since the Israelis are always the bad guys.
One takes sides, of cousez, but I note that in the war with Hezb ollah, the support (a poll) was some 90 perecne of the Israelil citizens, and that included many on the Left.
posted by Postroad at 6:48 PM on August 20, 2006
One takes sides, of cousez, but I note that in the war with Hezb ollah, the support (a poll) was some 90 perecne of the Israelil citizens, and that included many on the Left.
posted by Postroad at 6:48 PM on August 20, 2006
Maybe I'm missing something, but why didn't the soldiers turn the guy's camera off?
posted by Buck Eschaton at 6:49 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by Buck Eschaton at 6:49 PM on August 20, 2006
If you're an anti war demonstrator, you're supposed to go where demonstrating would actually make a difference. It's why I've found anti-war demonstrations to be pretty weak in recent years. Having to demonstrate in fixed locations that the gov't determines is acceptable? Locations that are a comfortable distance away from anyone for whom such demonstrations might be uncomfortable? Kinda diminishes the point of free speech, if you keep the demonstrators out of ear shot.
Oh right. No shouting fire in a movie theater. Yelling obscenities in the president's vicinity would just be inciting to riot, eh? We can't have that.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:50 PM on August 20, 2006
Oh right. No shouting fire in a movie theater. Yelling obscenities in the president's vicinity would just be inciting to riot, eh? We can't have that.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:50 PM on August 20, 2006
Bleh. I'm scared to watch this video; maybe if I lived in the exact area where it took place I could understand what was going on, but can we really know the situation from our computers in america?
posted by Citizen Premier at 6:59 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by Citizen Premier at 6:59 PM on August 20, 2006
Unregistered User: When the commander of the Israeli troops says, "“This is Lebanon!” one would tend to think he knows where he is at, no?
You have a working knowledge of both Hebrew and the geography of the West Bank than? Or are you just making stuff up based on the headline in the site you linked to? Even that article mentions that this happened in Bil'in, and a short Google would tell you where Bil'in is. And that there are weekly protests there by both Israelis and Palestinians, mostly peaceful, though stone throwing is also common. From Peace Power:
To summarize: Bil'in is not in Lebanon. Those were rubber bullets which injured one Israeli. This is not the only protest at Bil'in where peace activists were hurt, but the protests are not always peaceful. And there are a lot better posts to be made about the efforts of the Israeli left and others in cooperation with the Palestinians to build a viable non-violent protest movement, of which the Bil'in protests are one of the key cases.
posted by blahblahblah at 7:05 PM on August 20, 2006
You have a working knowledge of both Hebrew and the geography of the West Bank than? Or are you just making stuff up based on the headline in the site you linked to? Even that article mentions that this happened in Bil'in, and a short Google would tell you where Bil'in is. And that there are weekly protests there by both Israelis and Palestinians, mostly peaceful, though stone throwing is also common. From Peace Power:
Recently, a similar coalition has converged on the village of Bil'in to oppose the land confiscation that will result from the separation wall's intended path. The demonstrations in Bil'in, which have taken place every Friday since Spring of 2005, usually include stone throwing. Youngsters throw stones while standing behind the peaceful demonstrators, usually of the older generation, who tend to disapprove of the stoning.In fact, there is a rather important Israeli Supreme Court ruling (following this one) pending on the legality of the fence through Bil'in, and the town has been at the center of much effort by both Israelis and Palestinians to develop an effective non-violent protest movement, though there has still been incidents of rock throwing, etc.
To summarize: Bil'in is not in Lebanon. Those were rubber bullets which injured one Israeli. This is not the only protest at Bil'in where peace activists were hurt, but the protests are not always peaceful. And there are a lot better posts to be made about the efforts of the Israeli left and others in cooperation with the Palestinians to build a viable non-violent protest movement, of which the Bil'in protests are one of the key cases.
posted by blahblahblah at 7:05 PM on August 20, 2006
Cyrano : "Where is America mentioned in this article?"
All news is about America, at heart. I got a cavity filled last week, which was largely covered by national insurance. National insurance which America doesn't have. And then I went to Shibuya to have some curry. Shibuya, which isn't in America. And I got there on the Toyoko line, which stops in Tokyo, Yokohama, and several stops in between, which is important, because none of those stops are in America.
posted by Bugbread at 7:08 PM on August 20, 2006
All news is about America, at heart. I got a cavity filled last week, which was largely covered by national insurance. National insurance which America doesn't have. And then I went to Shibuya to have some curry. Shibuya, which isn't in America. And I got there on the Toyoko line, which stops in Tokyo, Yokohama, and several stops in between, which is important, because none of those stops are in America.
posted by Bugbread at 7:08 PM on August 20, 2006
And, for anyone who wants more information on the legal efforts in Israel to address the issues in Bil'in, and a history of the town, there is a good, if long, article from Ha'aretz reprinted at the Peace Now website.
posted by blahblahblah at 7:11 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by blahblahblah at 7:11 PM on August 20, 2006
Ha'aretz had an article on this.
Their reputation for impartiality in this conflict is questionable. Anyway, someone called in an Official UN Terrorist Ambulance, so the victims will get through this okay.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:19 PM on August 20, 2006
Their reputation for impartiality in this conflict is questionable. Anyway, someone called in an Official UN Terrorist Ambulance, so the victims will get through this okay.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:19 PM on August 20, 2006
Don't let that get in your way of making another shitty post full of factual errors...
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 6:46 PM PST
Perhaps you'll get lucky and Unregistered User will make a post about the Cranston Amendment and the money loaned to Israel so they can buy American weapons. You know. Cashflows.
So you can show us all about the cashflows being wrong.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:20 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 6:46 PM PST
Perhaps you'll get lucky and Unregistered User will make a post about the Cranston Amendment and the money loaned to Israel so they can buy American weapons. You know. Cashflows.
So you can show us all about the cashflows being wrong.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:20 PM on August 20, 2006
Perhaps you'll get lucky and Unregistered User will make a post about the Cranston Amendment and the money loaned to Israel so they can buy American weapons.
Maybe I'll get really lucky, and he'll do some actual research...
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 7:29 PM on August 20, 2006
Maybe I'll get really lucky, and he'll do some actual research...
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 7:29 PM on August 20, 2006
rough ashlar: I am not sure why the Cranston Ammendment, in particular, would be an issue. According to the Congressional Research Service, all the Cranston Amendment did was say that aid to Israel will not be less than the debt payments owed by Israel to the US. And the Ammendment has been dropped since 1999. Also, it was (according to CRS) never binding in the first place.
blazecock: Ha'aretz tends to be pretty good on these sorts of issues, better than the site given by UU, which also accuses Israel of using "energy beams" in Lebanon. In any case, I also linked to something from Peace Now. And I don't think anyone would argue that the FPP had some serious factual errors, such as location.
posted by blahblahblah at 7:32 PM on August 20, 2006
blazecock: Ha'aretz tends to be pretty good on these sorts of issues, better than the site given by UU, which also accuses Israel of using "energy beams" in Lebanon. In any case, I also linked to something from Peace Now. And I don't think anyone would argue that the FPP had some serious factual errors, such as location.
posted by blahblahblah at 7:32 PM on August 20, 2006
I think i see a "rockes" being thrown at about 00:49 by a guy in a grey shirt. You can hear it too a little.
posted by twjordan at 7:36 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by twjordan at 7:36 PM on August 20, 2006
Their reputation for impartiality in this conflict is questionable.
Speaking of reputation and impartiality, what do we know about Center for Global Research? I can't find any other source with this story, and the only other time I've heard of them was last week when someone pointed me to their article about "direct energy" weapons in Israel, which I also saw repeated no where else. So do they just have some really good and exclusive sources within the Israeli military or are they making this stuff up?
posted by scottreynen at 7:37 PM on August 20, 2006
Speaking of reputation and impartiality, what do we know about Center for Global Research? I can't find any other source with this story, and the only other time I've heard of them was last week when someone pointed me to their article about "direct energy" weapons in Israel, which I also saw repeated no where else. So do they just have some really good and exclusive sources within the Israeli military or are they making this stuff up?
posted by scottreynen at 7:37 PM on August 20, 2006
Geez, UU, this post is pretty egregious after you were called on the carpet for just this kind of thing a couple of days ago.
posted by LarryC at 7:41 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by LarryC at 7:41 PM on August 20, 2006
Thanks for reminding me that I had mondometa turned off. God this sucks.
posted by bob sarabia at 7:44 PM on August 20, 2006
posted by bob sarabia at 7:44 PM on August 20, 2006
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This seems above and beyond.
posted by Unregistered User at 6:18 PM on August 20, 2006