Mommy's Alright, Daddy's Alright, They Just seem A Little Weird

December 4, 2006 8:10 PM

One Of The Greatest Moments In The History Of Recorded Sound (YouTube)
posted by jonmc (171 comments total)

Awesome®
posted by four panels at 8:16 PM on December 4, 2006

four panels, I first heard that song when I was about ten years old and it's stuck with me ever since. I read a review of the album it's off in a Record Guide once and the reviewer says it's about a kid who's parents 'wig out behind their own advice to him and freak out to Kiss records, and if that isn't your idea of surrender, you've wandered into the wrong book by mistake.'

Sums it up nicely, I think.
posted by jonmc at 8:21 PM on December 4, 2006

<teenagegirlvoice>
shriek!!!
</teenagegirlvoice>
posted by octothorpe at 8:28 PM on December 4, 2006

recorded sound, indeed ... how does he manage to play those power chords without hitting the strings? ... (to say nothing of the synthesizer)
posted by pyramid termite at 8:30 PM on December 4, 2006

pyramid: I know, but c'mon, it really dosen't get much better than this. the 'we're all alright!' refrain is one of the rules I try to live by, that we're all just doing the best we can. It's right up there with 'Everyday People' in terms of populist anthems.
posted by jonmc at 8:32 PM on December 4, 2006

Like infinite flocks of starlings the little girls squeal...

Plus, that guitar player's crazy-nerd schtick gets old quick.
posted by gottabefunky at 8:40 PM on December 4, 2006

jonmc, I've only ever seen you in meetup pics, but I honestly believe you could totally rock that Robin Zander look Halloween 2007.
posted by carsonb at 8:41 PM on December 4, 2006

carsonb, I will take that as a compliment even though I always thought of myslef as Rick Neilsen. and gottabefunky, this song, for me at least, has always been a dividing line between those who get it and thos who don't. Don't take it personally, but really, what's not to lobe (and comments about what gets old real quick get old real quick).
posted by jonmc at 8:47 PM on December 4, 2006

They did some significant overdubbing of the live tapes for the Budokan album-- here's a version of the same video with the original sound.

Cut Rick some slack, gottabefunky. He was in a band with two pretty boys and the drummer from Bill Haley & The Comets-- he needed to do something to stand out.
posted by InfidelZombie at 8:49 PM on December 4, 2006

I surrender.
posted by fenriq at 8:52 PM on December 4, 2006

InfidelZombie: thanks for that link (even though the studio version is where the magic is, ultimately) and everybody commenting about 'shrieking girls,' the desire to have teenage girls shriek at you is part and parcel of the rock and roll dream.
posted by jonmc at 8:53 PM on December 4, 2006

My younger sister had a few Japanese penpals in the 70s and 80s and ended up sending lots of stuff back and forth with them. I remember that she compiled a huge stack of Japanese teen mags with endless pictures of Robin Zander and Tom Petersson. I swear, these two decent-looking guys were somehow rendered the most ethereal and beautiful people on earth through lighting, vaseline on the lens, and whatever classic photographers' tricks pre-dated Photoshop.

Not that I'm discouraging jonmc from attempting the mortal Robin Zander look. I think he can pull it off. I just don't think anyone these days can do the twink elven thing they achieved in those magazines.
posted by rosemere at 8:53 PM on December 4, 2006

I always wondered how old duder's mom must've been. WACS were WWII-era, dig.
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:54 PM on December 4, 2006

That song is a gem. I saw them warm up for Kiss back in the late '70s. I believe the other warm up band was something along the lines of Nantucket.

The other Greatest Moment in the History of Recorded is the first 2:45 of this clip [google video].

That's my nomination for the best pop song ever.
posted by marxchivist at 8:55 PM on December 4, 2006 [1 favorite]

I lobed seeing Rick hack coaine loogies on his amps speaker cabinet (completely encrusted) at a Cheap Trick gig at a local cowboy bar in the early 90s jonmc. He had all of stage left covered in his guitars and played at least 30 of them during the 2 hour set. They still totally rocked and unless you got too close they looked exactly like the linked vid. Too bad there were only about 300 people that showed cause it was mother-rockin awesome.
posted by HyperBlue at 8:55 PM on December 4, 2006

coaine = cocaine and I bet you coulda scraped em off and smoked them if so inclined..
posted by HyperBlue at 8:56 PM on December 4, 2006

A national treasure.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:57 PM on December 4, 2006

Not that I'm discouraging jonmc from attempting the mortal Robin Zander look. I think he can pull it off

I'm way cuter than Robin Zander, even though I can't sing as well.

I always wondered how old duder's mom must've been.

The guys in CT were late boomers, born in the mid 50's. they were in garage bands throughout the '60's (I have mp3's of Nielsen's pre-Trick stuff, it's good) so the WAC thing isn't too farfetched.
posted by jonmc at 8:58 PM on December 4, 2006

Through the wonderjoy that is Guitar Hero I have come to love many songs I never really listened to closely. This is one of them.

However, what is with the stage presence of the lead singer? It appears that he has a load in the dryer backstage and just wondered out to sing a song or two, but hey ya know, gotta get back and check that laundry soon or everything will shrink.


P.S. The one redeeming grace of Cheap Trick for me has always been the nerd schtick of the lead guitarist. That shit never gets old. In a world of spandex and big hair and wolf sneers that man is working at TGI Fridays while rocking the house. I feel you man...and 2 orders of buffalo wings.
posted by django_z at 9:02 PM on December 4, 2006

Not to over-snark or reach too far, jonmc, but you're known to dismiss some pop yourself at times, no? If gottabefunky had said, "This sucks," maybe you could have come back with, "Saying 'this sucks' sucks, dude," but I didn't read it that way.

Takes all kinds to rock, roll, rhythm, or blue, I think.
posted by cgc373 at 9:06 PM on December 4, 2006

Big ups for the Cheap Trick love. Read an interview w/ Rick Nielsen a few back, and when asked how he felt playing "Surrender" for almost 30 years. He responded something like

"playing those songs at every coliseum, carnival, boat show, and nightclub has kept me from having to get a real job for 30 years".

Now that is Rock and Roll, kids.
posted by erskelyne at 9:07 PM on December 4, 2006

P.S. The one redeeming grace of Cheap Trick for me has always been the nerd schtick of the lead guitarist. That shit never gets old

Well, it's more the tension between Nielsen and Carlos's nerd shtick and Zander and Petersson's pretty-boy routine (and of course the pop genius of the songs*) that makes it all work, IMHO.

*I was at my corner bar, aplace inhabited by old vietnam vet guys and professional drinkers and I put this song on the juke and this 40+ Puerto Rican guy started howling 'Mommy's alright, daddy's alright..' when the chorus kicked in, and I've seen that other places as well. very few songs have that effect.
posted by jonmc at 9:08 PM on December 4, 2006 [1 favorite]

I first heard that song when I was about ten years old

This song screams "sophomore year in college" to me, while that comment screams "...look, another wrinkle..."
posted by hwestiii at 9:08 PM on December 4, 2006

jonmc, but you're known to dismiss some pop yourself at times,

as Mark Kingwell said, it's at the junkfood level that standards become most important, and this is junkfood of the highest order.
posted by jonmc at 9:10 PM on December 4, 2006

Hmm. jonmc, I'm not sure now on rereading the comment I linked above whether you were really dismissing Lionel Richie's stuff. Seems you were just poking fun. Sorry if I'm overzealous in the "tolerate more" schtick.

Rock on.
posted by cgc373 at 9:11 PM on December 4, 2006

. jonmc, I'm not sure now on rereading the comment I linked above whether you were really dismissing Lionel Richie's stuff.

I like what he did with the Commodoes, his solo stuff I can do without. But it's all good, man.
posted by jonmc at 9:12 PM on December 4, 2006

You want junk food?

The Knack "Good girls don´t"
posted by LarryC at 9:16 PM on December 4, 2006

Well, here's a story that'll surely never be more apropos here at MeFi . . .

I came to know and love "Surrender" when I was a DJ at my campus' engineering pub in the mid-1990s. How it worked was that whenever an older engineering grad student showed up - or we were inundated with '80s-era alumni at Homecoming - they'd invariably request "Surrender." At a Homecoming party, it'd literally get requested dozens of times until it got played, after which those '80s-era engineering dudes would start immediately requesting it again until you played it again. You'd play it like a half-dozen times in a night.

One of the older DJs explained to me why: back in the '80s, the pub didn't have DJs, just a stereo in a cabinet by the bar. One year, on the night of the incoming engineering class' first big class party, the upper-year engineering students conspired to sneak a 90-min. tape of nothing but "Surrender" into the deck. They put it on continuous play, cranked it, locked the cabinet and left. "Surrender" played the entire night.

It was thereafter one of the pub's unofficial anthems. I can only hope it still is today.
posted by gompa at 9:18 PM on December 4, 2006 [2 favorites]

Personally, I'm voting for Too Drunk To Fuck by the Dead Kennedys if we're getting into the greatest moments in recorded sound.

But fun all the same. I raise my glass, jonmc. Both figuratively and literally.
posted by Football Bat at 9:19 PM on December 4, 2006 [1 favorite]

I can say this with complete objectivity: this is the worst post of the last thirty days. The only reason this steaming pile is still on the front page is that jonmc's user ID is below one hundred.

A single link to a Cheap Trick performance? And nobody catches on fire, or falls off the stage? It's just a fuckin' music video? Super fuckin' lame. Post it to metachat, jon; not here.
posted by interrobang at 9:41 PM on December 4, 2006

Rockpile . . .

OK, not Surrender, not well known, not an anthem, but damn good pop.
posted by kingfisher, his musclebound cat at 9:41 PM on December 4, 2006

Cheap Trick is one of those bands that I always wish were just a little bit better than they actually were. I like the two-ugly-guys/two-pretty-boys shtick better than I usually wind up liking the music, although there's no doubt "Surrender" is a good song. At various times I knew I was expected to make a deal about how no, really, KISS really were great when in fact they weren't (a little problem with the, you know, songwriting and shit like that), and so on.

Cheap Trick feels a little like that -- like there's some obscure principle I'm violating when I find them mostly okay. I tend to avoid such taste traps. But, man, I'm glad you enjoy the music.
posted by argybarg at 9:43 PM on December 4, 2006

kingfisher: Rockpile did indeed do some great stuff. Crawling from the Wreckage, etc. nd they launched Nick Lowe and Dave Edmunds.

interrobang: perhaps you're right, but, Surrender is a culturl milestone for people wjo are exactly my age, and it's rarely been properly discussed and matt's rarely been shy about telling me to take it elsewhere, so let it roll.
posted by jonmc at 9:45 PM on December 4, 2006

*reminisces about Robin Zander crush circa 1978*
posted by dog food sugar at 9:46 PM on December 4, 2006

KISS really were great when in fact they weren't

Well, that's kind of the whole point of rock and roll (and punk rock especially) that transcendence of limits, which is why both Kiss and Cheap Trick have been cited as influences by plenty of post-punk outfits.
posted by jonmc at 9:47 PM on December 4, 2006

And if it's Rockpile you want, this one's my pick.
posted by argybarg at 9:49 PM on December 4, 2006 [1 favorite]

Thirty days?

You're being generous, interrobang.
posted by dobbs at 9:50 PM on December 4, 2006

argybarg:as good as Rockpile were, Nick Lowe's 'Heart Of The city" buries them.
posted by jonmc at 9:50 PM on December 4, 2006

Well, that's kind of the whole point of rock and roll (and punk rock especially) that transcendence of limits

I wouldn't say it's the whole point of rock and roll. Chuck Berry wasn't transcending mediocre songwriting -- he wrote like the genius he was. Ditto the Kinks, the Beatles, Bo Diddley, Stevie Wonder, all the great stuff. And Elvis had the "limits" of being a hillbilly freak in '50s America, but he sure wasn't limited by his voice -- he had a tremendous voice, just not of the sort people were used to liking.

With KISS and (less so) Cheap Trick, the songwriting, the sound and the singing are limits a lot of the time -- there just isn't the greatness there that would make them worth it for more than a song or two. Instead they seem to constitute a point someone's trying to make. (Even accepting that "Surrender" is a good song, really.)
posted by argybarg at 10:01 PM on December 4, 2006

in middle school, 1978, a classmate was so inspired by the Budokan LP that he taught himself how to silkscreen in order to make his own white-on-black typewriter script four-line Cheap Trick logo shirt.

One of my fondest basement memories is the night then-playing-partners Greg and Lance and I figured out how to play 'Surrender,' having been previously (and utterly needlessly) intimidated by the B-minor. We played it over and over and over again, joyfully.
posted by mwhybark at 10:10 PM on December 4, 2006 [1 favorite]

I guess our definitions of "great" are very different.
posted by blue_beetle at 10:10 PM on December 4, 2006

The one redeeming grace of Cheap Trick (with bonus Julia Stiles!)

(though the Lindsay Lohan version is slightly better)
posted by cillit bang at 10:28 PM on December 4, 2006

I recently met Zander and his family for a photo shoot and I'm happy to report he's a really cool guy. Imagine me photographing the author of linked sonic awesomeness and then later talking about the pros and cons of private vs. public schools for our kids.

Life can be so cool sometimes.
posted by photoslob at 10:46 PM on December 4, 2006

For every one of those, cillit bang, I think you get one of these.
posted by cgc373 at 10:47 PM on December 4, 2006

Surrender is a culturl milestone for people wjo are exactly my age

That's utter gash! Wham singing Young Guns is a culturl milestone for people wjo are exactly my age, but I wouldn't post a fucking youtube link and call it an FPP unless I had my head right up my ass.
posted by forallmankind at 10:48 PM on December 4, 2006 [1 favorite]

Rockpile did indeed do some great stuff. Crawling from the Wreckage, etc. nd they launched Nick Lowe and Dave Edmunds.

I think this is backwards. Edmonds and Lowe already had established reputations and careers in the UK before forming Rockpile in the late 70's and then recording and touring with it in the early 80's.

By the time the first (only?) Rockpile album, "Seconds of Pleasure" hit the States, Lowe was already a big name in his own right through solo albums and his production of the early Elvis Costello albums. Edmunds had a hit in the States in the early 70's with a great single, "I Hear You Knocking"
posted by hwestiii at 10:55 PM on December 4, 2006

Speaking of Nick Lowe (*swoon*), here's a godawful video that happens to include my all time favorite pop couplet.
posted by maryh at 10:56 PM on December 4, 2006

... Surrender is a culturl milestone for people wjo are ...

You're fuckin' drunk and you heard this on the Youtube and decided to post it to mefi.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, I enjoyed it very much. I love this song.
posted by jefbla at 10:58 PM on December 4, 2006

I like that song a lot. except for the truck driver's gear change! This band kinda sound like NZ band Th Dudes. I wonder if jonmc has ever heard Th Dudes?
posted by dydecker at 11:18 PM on December 4, 2006

Hm.
posted by maxwelton at 11:31 PM on December 4, 2006

Surrender is one of the many songs that helps make Guitar Hero 2 so damn awesome.

I wish I could find someone doing a 100% run on Expert, but this is all I could find. It's some Gamespot dude running through it on Hard, and messing up a bunch. I can do 100% on Hard, but can't record it. Stupid technology.
posted by sparkletone at 11:31 PM on December 4, 2006

This is often the song that i'm blaring as I roll out of the Garage to go to work. Trying to pick up some of that "I've never had a real job in 30 years" magic.
posted by sic at 11:50 PM on December 4, 2006

I'm all for everybody rocking out to whatever floats their boat, and I try not to be too judgemental when it comes to people's taste in music (I mean, what's the point?) but when you call this "One Of The Greatest Moments In The History Of Recorded Sound" and you're apparently not being at all ironic or tongue-in-cheek with that statement, I have to say... um... well... damn, I'm not sure what to say. Except that apparently the bar for "greatness" has been lowered. Considerably.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 12:00 AM on December 5, 2006

This song is great and it always puts a smile on my face.

It was used fantastically in the movie Over the Edge. A quick summary, a young Matt Dillon gets in trouble with the cops (I think he was throwing stuff off an overpass or something) and he and this other kid get taken in to the police station. The other kid doesn't rat him out and, needless to say, his parents chew him out pretty bad. When he gets home, he just runs to his room, jumps on his bed, puts on his headphones, and throws this song on his record player.

Posts like this make me wish the "mefi post police" would just move along.
posted by crashlanding at 12:05 AM on December 5, 2006

One of the things I've always loved about Cheap Trick (besides their inherent fucking AWESOMENESS) is that they were always the one band in junior high and high school that everyone could agree on -- the punks/new wavers, the jocks/cheerleaders, the stoners/freaks... didn't matter. We all loved the Trick.
posted by scody at 12:07 AM on December 5, 2006

dreadful post
posted by johnny novak at 12:18 AM on December 5, 2006

One Of The Greatest Moments In The History Of Retarded Sound (YouTube)
posted by interrobang at 12:41 AM on December 5, 2006

jonmc is the anti-y2karl!
posted by PeterMcDermott at 1:30 AM on December 5, 2006

Thanks jonmc. These guys were my first real concert experience. Drunk on lemon gin, I broke my wooden soled stiletto shoes and decided to throw them into the crowd. Ahh, good times...
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 1:40 AM on December 5, 2006

Sweet mother of jesus... the screaming girls at the beginning of the clip scared the CRAP out of me!
posted by antifuse at 1:53 AM on December 5, 2006

Very timely. My wife and I were debating the influence of Cheap Trick on the music of the past 20 years over the weekend. I do think they were instrumental in spawning at least two distinct subgenres: (1) Beatles based power pop and (2) hair metal. So many bands from the early 1990's owe a great deal to these guys, notably, the Posies, School of Fish, Flop, Matthew Sweet.

As much as I dig In Color, Heaven Tonight, Budokan and Dream Police (their catalogue thereafter took a huge dive in quality) I do believe that their first record is an absolute, all-time classic. Also, Robin Zander still has one of the all time great rock voices.

In the end, not a great post, but an enjoyable walk down memory lane.
posted by psmealey at 2:02 AM on December 5, 2006

You cannot be serious. That Letters to Cleo cover just flat out fucking sucks (Julia Stiles notwithstanding).
posted by psmealey at 2:04 AM on December 5, 2006

and their cry was no surrender
posted by the cuban at 2:49 AM on December 5, 2006

Are we posting cultural and rockin' milestones for a generation/demographic/whatever? Then, here's Europe's "The Final Countdown".
posted by soundofsuburbia at 2:58 AM on December 5, 2006

OK song, God awful post. Anyone can look up a video they used like on YouTube.
posted by rhymer at 3:08 AM on December 5, 2006

Rockpile ... launched Nick Lowe and Dave Edmunds.

Love Sculpture - Sabre Dance

Brinsley Schwarz - Surrender To The Rhythm
(Because I can't find a video for What's So Funny 'Bout Peace Love and Understanding?)

Nick Lowe - I Love The Sound Of Breaking Glass
(Yes, after he joined Rockpile, but it's cool, darn it.)

Not that I want to appear condescending or anything. Just old.

(I've got on to a ropey audience video of Cardiacs doing Dirty Boy now. A propos of not much.)
posted by Grangousier at 3:19 AM on December 5, 2006

As much as I dig In Color, Heaven Tonight, Budokan and Dream Police... I do believe that their first record is an absolute, all-time classic.

And theraputic. Whenever this ancient back gets a kink in it, I just lay flat on my woofer bin and crank up "Mandocello."
posted by hal9k at 4:04 AM on December 5, 2006

Just talking about Cheap Trick last night. Is that Rick Nielsen playing the Bo Diddley box guitar on the ESPN Monday Night Football "Are Your Ready for Some Football" intro? You hafta look through Joe Perry's ego to catch a glimpse.

Extra credit: Who's the black guy on the Hammond?
posted by hal9k at 4:15 AM on December 5, 2006

For me, Cheap Trick exists in a space with other bands like Heart, and a lot of others I can't think of right now, who have coasted through decades long careers on the strength of their first couple or three albums. Have they really done anything memorable since "Dream Police"? What was that? '79? I know they've had radio hits since then, but nothing that seems to come close to the quality of their early output. Its like they hit a rut early on and decided it was easier just to follow it than to break out of it.

Aerosmith exists in this space for me as well. They seemed pretty marginal from "Draw The Line" up until "Pump" in the early 90's when they seemed to have gained noteriety primarily for having remained alive that long and sired really hot daughters, but I don't think they've ever come close to anything of the earlier albums like "Toys in the Attic" or "Rocks.

At least these guys try though, and don't make their living touring on a catalog that hasn't seen a new addition in 20 years, they do keep coming up with new material. Give me someone like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, or Bruce Springsteen or David Byrne though. Guys (and gals) who always seem to be reinventing themselves just when they seem to have mined out whatever current vein their working.
posted by hwestiii at 4:26 AM on December 5, 2006

One Of The Greatest Moments In The History Of Recorded Sound (YouTube)

Imagine if it was. If it actually was. Fortunately, it isn't.
posted by juiceCake at 4:31 AM on December 5, 2006

Cheap Trick? Rockpile? (bouncing with excitement) It may be a YouTube post but, dammit, it's got my name all over it.

"So many bands from the early 1990's owe a great deal to these guys, notably, the Posies, School of Fish, Flop, Matthew Sweet."

The Posies covered "Surrender", too. It was a frequent set closer for them back around 1989. Unfortunately none of those amazing live versions were released, only a sloppy one from Alive Before the Iceberg (scroll down on this page to hear a sound clip), and a pretty good studio version on their anthology box set (rough sound clip here under Disc 4). Or better, hear it as part of this edition of the Coverville podcast.

"Surrender" really is one of the classic songs. Live, you can't help but to jump up and down and sing along at the top of your lungs. "We're all all RIGHT! We're all all RIGHT!" If Cheap Trick had never done anything else they'd still have a certain immortality for that track.

"Have they really done anything memorable since "Dream Police"? What was that? '79? I know they've had radio hits since then, but nothing that seems to come close to the quality of their early output. Its like they hit a rut early on and decided it was easier just to follow it than to break out of it."

Well, with the exception of their circa-1988 quality nadir, Cheap Trick has continued to produce quite a bit of good stuff. It's just that what they do isn't what gets played on the radio these days. (Unless you listen to, say, Little Steven's Underground Garage.) Is it a rut if you have a style? I don't necessarily think so. Should they be expected to go hip-hop to stay relevant? Their worst period was when they actually seemed to try to be hitmakers, and thankfully, they gave that up pretty quickly.
posted by litlnemo at 4:40 AM on December 5, 2006

I once said: JONMC ROCKS. This is why. This is the best of the web from the best of my 1983. Personally Gino Vanelli's "People gotta move" would have been up there too. I think that is on my playlist here. I for one have always repeated the old mantra " music soothes the savage beast." I'm soooooo soooooothed right now. Thanks jonmc and haters......suck it.
posted by winks007 at 5:04 AM on December 5, 2006

The only decent key change in the history of recorded sound.
posted by fire&wings at 5:20 AM on December 5, 2006

Ah, memories. I saw Cheap Trick at the Chicago Amphiteatre (or was it the Stadium) in '78-'79, and it was the loudest thing I ever heard -- until I heard the Replacements a few years later. Yeah, they have been coasting on the fumes of their first three and a half records all these decades, but they were a thing of beauty back then, and I still can't get over the fact that Zander can pull that huge-ass voice out of such a wimpy, spindly body.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:21 AM on December 5, 2006

The other Greatest Moment in the History of Recorded is the first 2:45 of this clip

Now yer talkin'.
posted by languagehat at 5:24 AM on December 5, 2006

jonmc is the anti-y2karl!

Not even remotely. I'm merely his embarassing nephew with the behavior problems.
posted by jonmc at 6:04 AM on December 5, 2006

here's Europe's "The Final Countdown"

Ah, yes. Intermix this with bits from the theme to Jurassic Park and you have every figure-skater's music for every Olympics since Lillehammer. And what's more rockin' than figure skating?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:13 AM on December 5, 2006

Last time I heard this I was in Spinning class.
posted by konolia at 6:30 AM on December 5, 2006

Not exactly Coven, but it'll do, I guess.
posted by DenOfSizer at 6:52 AM on December 5, 2006

That's 4:26 of my life I wish I had back. I only watched it through thinking something redeeming was bound to happen, but nothing does.
posted by paulsc at 6:57 AM on December 5, 2006

paulsc: some people get it, and some people don't. what can I tell you?
posted by jonmc at 7:01 AM on December 5, 2006

And what's more rockin' than figure skating?

Dude, they've got a turn called Rocker turn. And let's not forget the dreaded triple Axl, named after a certain lead singer. The spread eagle move was concieved after Brian Boitano had looked at one too many Saxon covers. Oh yeah, figure skating rocks!
posted by soundofsuburbia at 7:21 AM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]

Best. Karaoke song. Ever.
posted by bashos_frog at 7:33 AM on December 5, 2006

Seriously, jonmc - we should go to Japas on St. Marks and belt it out together someday.
posted by bashos_frog at 7:34 AM on December 5, 2006

There's two kinds of people in this world....

And I'm one of the kind that still loves the shit out of Cheap Trick all these years later. I've covered at least 4 of their songs in various bands, and gotta say that playing He's a Whore & California Man led to some of the happiest moments of my otherwise bleak & meaningless existence. They had... something..., I know not what, but it moves me.

Saw them about 6 years ago, and was prepared for a "phone it in" perfomance, but despite the croud being less than 1000 people, they still played like they were 22 and it was Madison Square Garden. They were genuinely loving what it was they were doing.

And Tom Peterson played the entire gig with a lit cigarette dangling from his lips. *swoon* One of my Bass Heros.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:43 AM on December 5, 2006

That was good. Stevie Ray Vaughan at El Mocomobo was better.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 7:55 AM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]

That Letters to Cleo cover just flat out fucking sucks

Well the sound on that clip is awful. It sounds way better on the DVD.
posted by cillit bang at 8:18 AM on December 5, 2006

I would vote for this or this over Cheap trick, but its all good.
posted by TedW at 8:26 AM on December 5, 2006

Rick Nielsen was in The Grim Reapers on December 10th, 1967 when they were slated to open for Otis Redding and The Bar-Kays.
The Grim Reapers played that night, Otis Redding didn't.
Ever again.
posted by Floydd at 8:51 AM on December 5, 2006

WORST FPP EVER
posted by stemlot at 9:13 AM on December 5, 2006

There's always classic songs about bashing the bishop if you want to hear some true cheese.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 9:16 AM on December 5, 2006

These are the guys with the big guitar with like, 5 necks, right?

[/born in 1981]
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 9:43 AM on December 5, 2006

These are the guys with the big guitar with like, 5 necks, right?

You know those guitars that're, like, double guitars?

Also: the conversation's slowing down here, and I'm worried no one else is going to chime in with why they think it's wrong for it to be occurring at all. Please, folks, keep 'em coming. It's a single-link YouTubeFilter FPP, and there might be impressionable kids in the audience who've never seen one before, never seen the MeFi posting cops in full riot gear, don't realize how wrong wrong wrong this is.

Won't someone think of the children?
posted by gompa at 9:59 AM on December 5, 2006

This is still here?
posted by interrobang at 10:00 AM on December 5, 2006

We've come this far and no one has mentioned that Cheap Trick is responsible for the invention of the 8 and 12 string basses?
posted by drezdn at 10:10 AM on December 5, 2006

For some reason Zander reminds me of the evil prince in Dragonheart. You know, that *other* bad movie with Sean Connery.
posted by kid ichorous at 10:18 AM on December 5, 2006

jonmc is the anti-y2karl

yeah, i don't get why 1 YT music video is fine, but a collection is not. the censorship rules here continue to boggle. whimsical at best.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:34 AM on December 5, 2006

Well the sound on that clip is awful. It sounds way better on the DVD.

I own the DVD. I just can't take LtC's saccharine treatment of it. The Cheap Trick version is plenty sweet enough, but their version gives me a toothache.

I also don't like their similar treatment of "Cruel to be Kind" done earlier in that film... to close the loop on the whole Cheap Trick/Nick Lowe thing.
posted by psmealey at 10:54 AM on December 5, 2006

Not even close
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:57 AM on December 5, 2006 [2 favorites]

Your favorite type of post sucks.
posted by bashos_frog at 11:12 AM on December 5, 2006

These fucking youtube FPPs are getting ridiculous. If this hadn't been posted by jonmc it would have gotten the full ridicule it deserves.
posted by spicynuts at 11:31 AM on December 5, 2006

If this hadn't been posted by jonmc it would have gotten the full ridicule it deserves.

Dude, since when have I been on the 'No Ridicule' list? Some people liked it, some people hated it. It's all good.
posted by jonmc at 11:39 AM on December 5, 2006

I (vaguely) remember an interview where Kurt Cobain described Nirvana as "Cheap Trick for the 90s." While I was a Nirvana fan before I read this, I respected them just a little bit more afterward.

"Surrender" and "Dream Police" have a permanent place on my iPod. I was only 10 when Surrender came out, but I've loved it ever since. Thanks for this, jonmc.
posted by likorish at 11:40 AM on December 5, 2006

"Surrender" and "Dream Police" have a permanent place on my iPod. I was only 10 when Surrender came out, but I've loved it ever since. Thanks for this, jonmc.

fucking hell - if you're all such big Cheap Trick fans like you attest, why have you never typed "Cheap Trick Surrender" into youtube yourselves? You need someone to do that for you? Really?
posted by forallmankind at 12:08 PM on December 5, 2006

"That's utter gash! Wham singing Young Guns is a culturl milestone for people wjo are exactly my age, but I wouldn't post a fucking youtube link and call it an FPP unless I had my head right up my ass."

What Jon might have mentioned was that this performance comes from the Live at Budokan album, which was one of the first, huge live records (along with KISS ALIVE and Frampton Comes...).

An argument can be made that Cheap Trick's success is why bands put out live albums, and Live at Budokan (if I recall correctly) way, way outsold any other CT album.

So yeah, culturally significant, now on the web, and awesome. Maybe not the greatest post, but fuck it, worth seeing. I'll take this over, say, the Kim family travails any day.

(But I love power pop, despite probably being about half a generation behind Jon)
posted by klangklangston at 12:13 PM on December 5, 2006

Awesome!

Full disclosure: I once swallowed my pride and faked home-sickness at summer camp so I could get myself home and park myself in front of a TV to watch Live at Budokan. Heh.

Also, Bun E rules! He looks more youthful now than he did 20 years ago, too. Weird...
posted by mazola at 12:44 PM on December 5, 2006

I just can't take LtC's saccharine treatment of it. The Cheap Trick version is plenty sweet enough, but their version gives me a toothache.

So I guess I shouldn't link to the Lindsay Lohan version.
posted by cillit bang at 12:51 PM on December 5, 2006

Pee Wee Herman's older brother.
posted by pracowity at 1:13 PM on December 5, 2006

cillit bang, it's one thing to actually talk about linking to that Lindsay Lohan atrocity, but it's quite another to do it. A near bannable offense, I should think.

Here's hoping no one gets inspired by that to do a y2Karl-styled post of annoying girl pop bands doing covers of perfectly good rock songs.

Ok, so maybe the Donnas are ok, but you get the point.
posted by psmealey at 1:39 PM on December 5, 2006

hwestiii wrote "Aerosmith exists in this space for me as well. They seemed pretty marginal from 'Draw The Line' up until 'Pump' in the early 90"s when they seemed to have gained noteriety primarily for having remained alive that long and sired really hot daughters, but I don't think they've ever come close to anything of the earlier albums like 'Toys in the Attic' or 'Rocks."

I wholeheartedly agree. You can say what you want about a lot of bands like the Stones, just coasting along for years, but they never played on fucking Nickelodeon just to make their kids happy. Try and do that and then convince me you still rock? Right. I will however never give up the old stuff: I might think they sold out but that doesn't take away from the fact that "Dream On" is a great song that deserves more airtime.

As for Cheap Trick - eh. Lots of bands from that era produced songs that I like but also wrote stuff that I would really never want to hear again. Classic rock radio is a minefield for me - I hear Band X is coming up and I have to quickly grab the dial, not knowing whether to tune in for awesomeness or turn the channel really quickly before they play that one godawful steaming crap pile of a song. There are specific songs that will make me turn the radio OFF. (Most of those songs are performed by Bob Seger. Can't stand his goddamn whining about how much life sucks now that he is old and fat. Every damn Seger song is about how great things used to be. I am sick of his reminiscing. "Rambling man" is the sole exception and about the only Seger song I could actually like.)
posted by caution live frogs at 2:05 PM on December 5, 2006

My, my it's tense in here. It appears there are some hard feelings in here. jonmc, have you been overly hard on youtube posters or single link FPP's? Whiners...It sounds like some folks are waiting on permission to go mean-muggin on jonmc. Don't look to a couple of 40 y/o stoner/web-junkies to buck you up and give you the go-ahead. Be a man (or woman) jonmc has thick skin, he can hang, can you? Let the flame wars begin. Haterz. I hate 99% of the classic rock on the radio. Hairnation on Sirius, decent old-school stuff. BTW, I don't have a Camaro or long hair and I can't carry a tune in a bucket.
posted by winks007 at 2:15 PM on December 5, 2006

CLF— Seger's stuff with the Silver Bullet Band is actually pretty solid, and I'd tell you what to listen to if I could just find my goddamned ol' tape of his stuff. He got old and sucky, but his early albums are worth hearing. And I'm only fond of Katmandu because of the book Bagtime.
posted by klangklangston at 2:25 PM on December 5, 2006

cillit bang, it's one thing to actually talk about linking to that Lindsay Lohan atrocity, but it's quite another to do it. A near bannable offense, I should think.

It's considerably better than the original. Not the best thing she's done, mind.

annoying girl pop bands doing covers of perfectly good rock songs

Yeah. Women eh?

More songs you might enjoy:
* Sugababes - "I Bet You Look Good On The Dancefloor"
* Hilary and Haylie Duff - "Our Lips Are Sealed"
* Girls Aloud "Teenage Dirtbag"

(Just FYI I have front row tickets for Girls Aloud next year)
posted by cillit bang at 2:48 PM on December 5, 2006

This single-link post lives, while the latest y2karl YouTube bonanza was killed quickly.

MetaFilter is strange sometimes.
posted by sparkletone at 3:15 PM on December 5, 2006

caution live frogs,
The Stones would play your kid's bar mitzvah if the price was right.
Mick Jagger invented selling out.

Now, Jim Morrison and the Doors had some integrity, and one of the remaining band members still does, but that's a post for another day.
posted by bashos_frog at 3:28 PM on December 5, 2006

"An argument can be made that Cheap Trick's success is why bands put out live albums, and Live at Budokan (if I recall correctly) way, way outsold any other CT album."

You must be effing joking. Have you ever heard of Get yer YaYas out, The Who live at Leeds, Made in Japan, Band of Gypsies, Live At The Apollo 1962.

I love it when every generation thinks they were the first.
posted by Merlin at 3:31 PM on December 5, 2006

That is some really rockin' hardcore adult contemporary.
posted by luckypozzo at 4:19 PM on December 5, 2006 [3 favorites]

What the fuck? If I posted this as an FPP:

One Of The Greatest Moments In The History Of Recorded Sound (YouTube)

or this:

One Of The Greatest Moments In The History Of Recorded Sound (YouTube)

or this:

One Of The Greatest Moments In The History Of Recorded Sound (YouTube)

I'd be thrown out of here faster than shit off a shovel. But this is acceptable somehow? Why?
posted by chrominance at 5:03 PM on December 5, 2006

If I posted this as an FPP... I'd be thrown out of here faster than shit off a shovel. But this is acceptable somehow? Why?

Because those aren't Cheap Trick Live at Budokan.

Duh.
posted by mazola at 5:13 PM on December 5, 2006

One Of The Greatest Moments In The History Of Recorded Sound (YouTube)(YouTube) (they never should have fired lemmy)

One Of The Greatest Moments In The History Of Recorded Sound (YouTube) (but only if you do the drugs they were doing)

One Of The Greatest Moments In The History Of Recorded Sound (YouTube) (what is mushroom hair?)
posted by pyramid termite at 5:30 PM on December 5, 2006

another one from those fun guys in germany, 1970 (note that the audience doesn't know what to make of them ... especially damo suzuki)
posted by pyramid termite at 5:38 PM on December 5, 2006

"I love it when every generation thinks they were the first."

I love it when people misatribute my opinions to my age, especially when it's directly contradicted by someting I just said.

"You must be effing joking. Have you ever heard of Get yer YaYas out, The Who live at Leeds, Made in Japan, Band of Gypsies, Live At The Apollo 1962."

Right... The difference is that, aside from James Brown, none of those were seen as better than the studio albums, and none made the careers of those bands when they came out (like all three albums I mentioned did). And if you look at the other albums I mentioned, they're simply a different league. KISS Alive went what, quadruple platinum? As did Frampton Comes Alive (which went platinum much quicker, and held for a long time the record of best selling live album).
Further, if you take a band like, say, The Smashing Pumpkins, or most alt-heroes of the last 10 or so years, they'll cite Cheap Trick faster than any of those other albums. (And you're really not doing your case any favors to cite Deep Purple as defining the genre).

Live at Leeds may be better (it's probably my favorite Who album), but The Who was already pretty well limned.
posted by klangklangston at 5:40 PM on December 5, 2006

Seger's stuff with the Silver Bullet Band is actually pretty solid

His stuff from before then is even better. When the MC5 recorded Back In The USA they said that "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" was their model. And "Feel Like A Number,' is actually a fine piece of protest rock, and I usually hate protest rock.

jonmc, have you been overly hard on youtube posters or single link FPP's? Whiners...It sounds like some folks are waiting on permission to go mean-muggin on jonmc. Don't look to a couple of 40 y/o stoner/web-junkies to buck you up and give you the go-ahead. Be a man (or woman) jonmc has thick skin, he can hang, can you?

Nah, but I've had some opinions that some have seen as controversial in the past, but truth be told this could've been a bigger cluster fuck than it was. All things considered, it's been fun (although y2karl's post was better and shouldn't have been deleted IMHO). And I'm not 40, I just turned 36 on sunday. Don't age me any faster.
posted by jonmc at 5:44 PM on December 5, 2006

"I'd be thrown out of here faster than shit off a shovel. But this is acceptable somehow? Why?"

You can't tell the difference between Snap and Cheap Trick? Seriously?
posted by klangklangston at 5:47 PM on December 5, 2006

oh, snap!
posted by pyramid termite at 5:55 PM on December 5, 2006

I turned 40 last month. You fuckers have me to the point where - it'll have to a really great thing for me to even attemp to post.
posted by winks007 at 6:10 PM on December 5, 2006

Holy crap - jonmc is younger than me.
(But I think he's done more living than I have)
posted by bashos_frog at 6:11 PM on December 5, 2006

You can't tell the difference between Snap and Cheap Trick? Seriously?
posted by klangklangston at 8:47 PM EST on December 5

A battle of mediocrity! Yay!

I'll add some more of the greatest moments in the history of sound (there are so many and they are of course, very subjective.)


Vintage 80s in so many ways.

Didn't know what time it was, but at 1:16 you get to see a wicked pair of johnnies and you're swept back into a combo of sci-fi and fantasy the likes of which we've seen too many times before and more to come no doubt.

Adjust your attire indeed.

Whenever these guys are spoken of, someone hilariously says their Nazis.

So unpretentious people find them pretentious.

The Alan Partidge reference adds a touch of fine to this one.

Better than Jurassic Park.

People really, really hate this band when they hate them.

The best K-Tel voice ever.
posted by juiceCake at 6:44 PM on December 5, 2006

"A battle of mediocrity! Yay!"

Again, if you can't tell that Surrender is one of the greatest power pop tunes ever written, and Snap's a one-hit wonder with a middling rave anthem, you need to have your music listening license revoked.

Starting out with Dali's Car, or trying to seem OMG obscure with Joy Division (it's "they're" by the way, and even folks who only saw them in 24 Hour Party People know they're not Nazis— it takes a special kind of trying too hard to alledge otherwise), and arguing for Pavement over Cheap Trick, is what I would have done in high school too.

But please, tell me more about this owning every Smiths album. I'm sure it makes you interesting, and I'm sure you look smashing in your anorak.
posted by klangklangston at 6:56 PM on December 5, 2006

A battle of mediocrity! Yay!

If it weren't for battles of mediocrity I'd have no competition in my life.

Again, if you can't tell that Surrender is one of the greatest power pop tunes ever written

It's one of the greatest tunes ever written period. Hell, I'd rank it above the entire Replacements catalog, and you all know how I feel about the 'Mats. Ranking the Smiths and Joy Division above it is major case of mistaking affectation for art.
posted by jonmc at 7:03 PM on December 5, 2006

you guys need to do more drugs (they did)
posted by pyramid termite at 7:16 PM on December 5, 2006

Amon Duul kick ass. And I do plenty of drugs.

*freebases ovaltine*
posted by jonmc at 7:19 PM on December 5, 2006

Again, if you can't tell that Surrender is one of the greatest power pop tunes ever written, and Snap's a one-hit wonder with a middling rave anthem, you need to have your music listening license revoked.

Utter nonsense. Guy has different musical taste than another. Guy can't conceive of it. Hilarity ensues.

I'm glad you like it. I don't. It's that simple. And who said I didn't recognize it as one of the better power pop tunes?
posted by juiceCake at 7:21 PM on December 5, 2006

Ok, YouTube is blocked at my work. Damnit. So I just got home a couple of hours ago, watched the video... Daaaaaah, I don't get it! What did I miss?!? *scratches head*
posted by mrhappysad at 7:22 PM on December 5, 2006

It's one of the greatest tunes ever written period.

No it isn't.

Hell, I'd rank it above the entire Replacements catalog, and you all know how I feel about the 'Mats.

That's great. You're very welcome to your opinion. I respect it, but completely disagree with it.

Ranking the Smiths and Joy Division above it is major case of mistaking affectation for art.

And being an asshole about your taste is even worse. But I have to say, you do it very, very well. Congratulations.
posted by juiceCake at 7:25 PM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]

Utter nonsense. Guy has different musical taste than another.

This is true. Taste is a matter of taste, ultimately. But you're the one who came in here telling me and klang that something we love is 'mediocrity.' But it's the internets and the first rule of the internets is that if you admit to loving something, somebody's gonna say it sucks. Fair enough. But if you bring some, you're gonna get some. So don't whine. Oh wait you're a Smiths fan...
posted by jonmc at 7:27 PM on December 5, 2006

Why would you identify with it so strongly?

Um, that's one of the big reasons people make art, especially popular music, to express what they're feeling in the hopes that they can commuicate with others feeling the same thing.
posted by jonmc at 7:31 PM on December 5, 2006

i'm feeling a need for some peace, man
posted by pyramid termite at 7:33 PM on December 5, 2006

This is true. Taste is a matter of taste, ultimately. But you're the one who came in here telling me and klang that something we love is 'mediocrity.'

And you're the one who came in saying it was opposite. That's fine. I'm not sure why one person can say yay and another nay in this subjective arena.

But if you bring some, you're gonna get some.

I just expressed my opinion about the bands, not about the musical judgement of those who like or dislike them. There's a difference mate. Please attempt to comprehend it.

I get you're opinion differs than my own. I do. I personally don't mind that. It seems you do. I apologize for not possessing the same taste as you. Maybe I should pretend that you're taste, because it differs from others or more specifically mine, is somehow actually deficient. Maybe you need your head examined, etc. and so forth. But no, that would just be pure assholery.

I'm sure you get a great deal of joy out of what you like. That's fabulous. That others don't doesn't make their taste musically deficient.
posted by juiceCake at 7:37 PM on December 5, 2006

Maybe I should pretend that you're taste, because it differs from others or more specifically mine, is somehow actually deficient.

You're the one who called it 'mediocre,' which means you probably consider me and klang mediocre people (I dunno about klang, but I actually am mediocre and quite comfortable with it, but that's beside the point).
posted by jonmc at 7:40 PM on December 5, 2006

meaning, if you really didn't consider us deficient you would've simply said 'hey, this is the shit I dig.' And FWIW, I know plenty of cool people who dig the Smiths and most of them dig Cheap Trick, too.
posted by jonmc at 7:42 PM on December 5, 2006

"Utter nonsense. Guy has different musical taste than another. Guy can't conceive of it. Hilarity ensues."

I can concieve of it; you also happen to be wrong.

There are two arguments going on here: one is that Surrender deserves to be noted because it's good, which is ultimately subjective (but I can give some of my reasoning for it); the other is that Surrender deserves to be noted because it's significant, which it is (and I think I've given some of my reasoning for that in the form of arguing for the significance of the album it's off of).

Further, you seem to be both making the mistake of believing that just because something is subjective that it might as well be random, and defending your right to come in and declaim loudly on how mediocre the song is.

For the first argument, you're wrong. There are some sounds that are much more pleasing to many more people, and while this isn't an airtight standard, it is the standard from which deviation must be justified.

"I get you're opinion differs than my own. I do. I personally don't mind that. It seems you do. I apologize for not possessing the same taste as you. Maybe I should pretend that you're taste, because it differs from others or more specifically mine, is somehow actually deficient. Maybe you need your head examined, etc. and so forth. But no, that would just be pure assholery."

Not if you could make a convincing case for it. Because you can't see that there can be persuasion regarding aesthetics, and equate discussion and criticism (even the fairly mild form you've "suffered" here) with assholery shows that you're rhetorically retarded.

"I'm sure you get a great deal of joy out of what you like. That's fabulous. That others don't doesn't make their taste musically deficient."

And yeah, frankly, it does. Despite what I said about Snap, and I stand by it, I still enjoy pretty much everything that's been linked in here (including and especially most of PT's contributions). You have a defecit of music appreciation, and by putting forth your links for what you consider more worthy, you're inviting a discussion about whether they are more worthy. That you then retreat to the subjectivism defense shows that you're not just aesthetically deficient, but (again) rhetorically deficient as well.

I don't get wrapped up in whether you think I'm a mediocre guy, or have mediocre taste or not. I go by what I like, and then I try to think about why I like it (and I'll admit that I can't always articulate it). But right now you're wearin' the swagger of a college rock snob and not even able to own up to it, so I got no problem riding your dumb ass out of that ghetto.
posted by klangklangston at 8:29 PM on December 5, 2006

jonmc's alright

chrominance's alright

klangklangston's alright

juiceCake's alright

We're all alright!

We're ALL ALRIGHT!

WE'RE ALL ALRIGHT!

WE'RE ALL ALRIGHT!
posted by mazola at 10:39 PM on December 5, 2006

Metafilter: We're all alright!
posted by mazola at 10:41 PM on December 5, 2006

You can't tell the difference between Snap and Cheap Trick? Seriously?

Thanks for missing the point. Let's try again.

OMG THE BESTEST MOMENT IN MUSIC EVAR!!!!!!
OMG THE BESTEST MOMENT IN MUSIC EVAR!!!!!!
OMG THE BESTEST MOMENT IN MUSIC EVAR!!!!!!

You'd STILL throw me out faster than shit on a shovel. The point is not how good or significant the song is; the point is you're basically putting into an FPP, "hey, I really like this song and so do lots of other people! Wow!" I mean, isn't this exactly what gets called out as chatfilter?

I'd love to talk about music too, but I thought that discussion was supposed to be triggered by a substantial post. Instead we just get a bunch of people sitting around, reminiscing about how great Cheap Trick is. Fine, except everyone would piss all over me if I did the same with the three links I just posted, or any of a thousand other music videos. "What is this? It's just a link to a Sonic Youth video. Do you have anything to say?" And they'd be right.

I now consider this an implicit license to post stuff I really like whenever I want. Tomorrow I'll post an FPP that links to the IMDB page of The Long Kiss Goodnight and say "OMG GEENA DAVIS IS SO AWESOME LOLZ."

In summary, fuck you! Fuck you too!
posted by chrominance at 11:07 PM on December 5, 2006

They cancelled their Australian tour :(
posted by cholly at 11:10 PM on December 5, 2006

"I mean, isn't this exactly what gets called out as chatfilter?"

Not really. What gets called out as chatfilter tends to be AskMe.

"Fine, except everyone would piss all over me if I did the same with the three links I just posted, or any of a thousand other music videos."

Maybe they'd piss all over you because you're a bit of a jerk, and thus need more compelling content to evade the urine streams?

(Cheap Trick's best-known recording is of them playing live, yet most people have never seen the footage of that performance. Not true with any of the three bands you just linked).
posted by klangklangston at 11:44 PM on December 5, 2006

Isn't this post the kind of thing metachat was set up to cater for?
posted by thatwhichfalls at 11:58 PM on December 5, 2006

Okay, then I'll stop being a bit of a jerk and simply comment that had someone (like, say, the original poster) bothered to mention the importance of the concert, and that hey, this is rarely-seen footage of said concert, it wouldn't seem so much like the original poster got a free pass where the rest of us probably wouldn't. That's all.
posted by chrominance at 12:00 AM on December 6, 2006

anyone else think that the singer looks like David St Hubbins? Shame the music's not as good as "the Tap".
posted by johnny novak at 12:29 AM on December 6, 2006 [1 favorite]

Shame the music's not as good as "the Tap".

Or virtually any music link y2karl has ever directed us to...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:01 AM on December 6, 2006

It's considerably better than the original. Not the best thing she's done, mind.

Hurl. I direct your attention to this post.
posted by psmealey at 4:24 AM on December 6, 2006

OMG THE BESTEST MOMENT IN MUSIC EVAR!!!!!! [footage of Miles band]

Thanks for that. You may have been using it to be obnoxious, but it made my day.
posted by languagehat at 7:19 AM on December 6, 2006

Sorry to harp on the girl pop thing, but this Lindsey Lohan thing really bothers me. You can go out to a club any given night in any major metropolitian city and hear five singers with more musical talent and stage charisma than Ms. Lohan. What, she sells records, because she's famous? How disgusting.

At least Letters to Cleo was an actual band. Or at least they were until their label told them to can the original lead guitarist because his look wasn't sufficiently "video friendly". (True story: I knew these guys way back when).

Back on topic, that "So What" video was incredible, and the Beatles appearance on Ed Sullivan never ceases to give me the chills.
posted by psmealey at 7:50 AM on December 6, 2006

bashos_frog wrote "caution live frogs,
"The Stones would play your kid's bar mitzvah if the price was right.
"Mick Jagger invented selling out."

Sure they invented selling out - but that wasn't my point. The Stones have never been shy about saying they were only continuing to tour because of the money. The difference to me is that they didn't suddenly get all kid friendly and pretend it wasn't selling out. It reminds me of the radio DJs I heard talking about the new Van Halen album with Gary Cherone on vocals about 5 years back, trying desperately to pretend it didn't suck because they were being paid to promote it. That's selling out. Saying "Yes, folks, this album really sucks - but goddamn they are paying me enough that we need to hear that track again!" is being honest about yourself. Cheech Marin trying to pretend that there were really no actual drugs involved - selling out. It's a difference between my ability to maintain respect for them despite the actions, vs. losing all respect for them because they are selling out but won't admit it to anyone.

Burhanistan wrote "It's not like any of you produced, wrote, financed, got coffee for the mixing engineer, or otherwise did anything whatsoever to get this music to market. [...] Why would you identify with it so strongly?"

It isn't the music itself. It's what people did when that music was playing. I'm pretty sure that if you had a specific track on in the background the first time you had sex, then that song would develop some important meaning to you, even if it is nothing more than a wisp of nostalgia. You hear the right song at the right time, and you'll always have a warm and fuzzy spot for that music. I mean, hell, do I like Dylan because Dylan is such a great singer and songwriter, or do I like Dylan because my parents played a lot of his stuff when I was young, and I associate his oft-whiny, oft-raspy singing with the pleasant memories of being a kid, when I still had both my parents around? It's a little of both, to be sure. But I identify with that. Don't knock folks for their feelings.
posted by caution live frogs at 8:23 AM on December 6, 2006

You can go out to a club any given night in any major metropolitian city and hear five singers with more musical talent and stage charisma than Ms. Lohan

Well exactly. Talent is worthless. Lohan has money to spend on some half-decent professional songwriters, musicians and producers and a rack full of autotuners. I'd rather listen to their output than a bunch of fucking idiot amateurs who think they can make pop records despite conspicuously lacking any of the above.

And what the fuck is an "actual band" and why should I romanticise arcane crap like how the monkeys pushing the keys and strumming the strings know each other, or whether the person singing the song wrote the song, or whether the ugly guitarist was kicked out. As long as the album doesn't suck, who cares?

It's not like I don't buy records by or like "actual bands". But very few of them have produced albums that are half as good or interesting as Lohan's "Speak" (or Ashlee Simpson's "Autobiography" or Hilary Duff's "Most Wanted").
posted by cillit bang at 8:43 AM on December 6, 2006

Talent is worthless.

Awesome. This is a terrific credo for the mainstream recording industry.

It's not like I don't buy records by or like "actual bands". But very few of them have produced albums that are half as good or interesting as Lohan's "Speak" (or Ashlee Simpson's "Autobiography" or Hilary Duff's "Most Wanted").

I have absolutely no response to that other than to say, "congratulations, you are a target demographic!"
posted by psmealey at 8:55 AM on December 6, 2006

It's not like I don't buy records by or like "actual bands". But very few of them have produced albums that are half as good or interesting as Lohan's "Speak" (or Ashlee Simpson's "Autobiography" or Hilary Duff's "Most Wanted").

cillit bang's not alright.
posted by mazola at 9:04 AM on December 6, 2006

He does, however, seem a little weird.
posted by jonmc at 9:13 AM on December 6, 2006

the monkeys pushing the keys and strumming the strings

Sorry, you want the Monkeyfilter compilation. That's out next year.
posted by InfidelZombie at 9:45 AM on December 6, 2006

You're the one who called it 'mediocre,' which means you probably consider me and klang mediocre people (I dunno about klang, but I actually am mediocre and quite comfortable with it, but that's beside the point).
posted by jonmc at 10:40 PM EST on December 5

It doesn't. It merely means I regard it personally, as mediocre. The standards by which I judge it by obviously differ and, even if they are the same, are given different weight. Simple really.
posted by juiceCake at 11:46 AM on December 6, 2006

I can concieve of it; you also happen to be wrong.

No I'm not.

There are two arguments going on here: one is that Surrender deserves to be noted because it's good, which is ultimately subjective (but I can give some of my reasoning for it); the other is that Surrender deserves to be noted because it's significant, which it is (and I think I've given some of my reasoning for that in the form of arguing for the significance of the album it's off of).

I never said it wasn't significant. So too, is the other tune you don't care for. Really, it is.

Further, you seem to be both making the mistake of believing that just because something is subjective that it might as well be random, and defending your right to come in and declaim loudly on how mediocre the song is.

Hardly. Loudly? How so? I do take issue with people pretending that somehow, their opinion, which is a mix of subjective and objective standards, is better than others when such a mix exists. I recognize that's it's technically very good in it's sphere. I just happen to feel and think that that sphere is mediocre. You don't. I'm fine with that and I wouldn't dream of trying spin your support for it into a "there must be something wrong with your musical judgement" argument, which I believe is complete and utter nonsense and leads, not suprisingly, to where it has lead now. Thanks for the leadership. Admirable.

For the first argument, you're wrong. There are some sounds that are much more pleasing to many more people, and while this isn't an airtight standard, it is the standard from which deviation must be justified.

I know there are some sounds that are pleasing to many more people. I don't believe this collection of sounds qualifies for that, nor do I believe that what is being argued is "hey, this collection of sounds by this band is, by all measurable standards, pleasing to more people than others, let's listen." You do. Great. You're right, and I'm wrong. Wonderful.

Not if you could make a convincing case for it. Because you can't see that there can be persuasion regarding aesthetics, and equate discussion and criticism (even the fairly mild form you've "suffered" here) with assholery shows that you're rhetorically retarded.

I don't have to make a convincing case for it when you dont' either. I'm fully aware that there can be persuaion regarding aesthetics. I'm also fully aware that given that, persuasion varies wildly as does the final judgement. I respect your opinion and love for the sound. I happen to have different reaction to it. Both are equally valid in my opinion and I have no problem with people believing what I love to be entirely mediocre. You expressed your support and agreement. I expressed my disagreement. Your reaction, there must be something wrong with you. Retarded indeed.

"I'm sure you get a great deal of joy out of what you like. That's fabulous. That others don't doesn't make their taste musically deficient."

And yeah, frankly, it does. Despite what I said about Snap, and I stand by it, I still enjoy pretty much everything that's been linked in here (including and especially most of PT's contributions). You have a defecit of music appreciation, and by putting forth your links for what you consider more worthy, you're inviting a discussion about whether they are more worthy. That you then retreat to the subjectivism defense shows that you're not just aesthetically deficient, but (again) rhetorically deficient as well.

No, frankly, it doesn't. Despite what I said about Cheap Trick and Snap, and I stand by it, I still enjoy a wide variety of music that has and hasn't been linked to here. You do not have a defecit of music appreciation, but some of your aesthetics differ from mine.

I did not put forth my links as being more worthy whatsoever, just as an illustration of a different aesthetic.

I never retreated, it remains my overall argument and perspective. I appreciate that you've added some more complexity to it and thank you for that. The aesthetics you value personally and believe to be somewhat objectively provable are fine. So are mine. I respect that you have a different set than my own. There's nothing wrong with your musical judgement. There's nothiing wrong with mine either.

I don't get wrapped up in whether you think I'm a mediocre guy, or have mediocre taste or not. I go by what I like, and then I try to think about why I like it (and I'll admit that I can't always articulate it). But right now you're wearin' the swagger of a college rock snob and not even able to own up to it, so I got no problem riding your dumb ass out of that ghetto.

I don't know what kind of guy you are and frankly, don't care. That said, I respect your musical opinions and taste, I just happen to disagree with some of them. I too think of why I might like something but I also appreciate that those reasons will not hold sway with others and if they don't, it doesn't mean that they're somehow deficient.

College rock snob? At least I'm not a snob period. Right now you're wearing the swagger of a complete cock and you're not even able to own up to it. Regardless, I still have no problem respecting the fact that your musical judgement and conclusions differ from mine and I still refuse to be a cunt about it and think, and actually believe, that therefore, you're in the ghetto of taste.

Thanks for trying to get me out of my ghetto. It's much appreciated it. I've made the effort to think more of CT and Snap. It hasn't happened. Sorry mate.
posted by juiceCake at 12:10 PM on December 6, 2006

I'm going to make a t-shirt like Paris Hilton's that says, "I'm Jonmc And I Can Post Whatever I Want"

just be thankful I didn't post a picture of my ass.
posted by jonmc at 7:06 PM on December 6, 2006

I have absolutely no response to that other than to say, "congratulations, you are a target demographic!"

And you are unique little snowflake.
posted by cillit bang at 8:06 PM on December 6, 2006

The layered / reverby / delayed vocal effects were fantastic.

Best I can tell, CT had virtually no 'cute' characteristics save for Nielsen's ballcap so I'm wondering how they got so hot in Japan way back when.
posted by deern the headlice at 8:32 PM on December 6, 2006

And you are unique little snowflake.

That's debatable, though my mom and my kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Stanson, told me it was. What is certain is that people like you, who will mindlessly line up to consume the latest offering by the Britneybot du jour, vastly outnumber people like me - who try to support the local music scene as well as what's left of independent music - by many, many orders of magnitude.

I've been puzzling, though, why someone who seems to detest musicians so much ("monkeys") would bother to weigh in on a music thread on MeFi, of all places. You get all the mass produced garbage you can possibly want pumped into the marketplace by Sony, Universal, EMI, while people with more discerning tastes have to look a little harder (sometimes MeFi is an excellent source of info to this end).

What's really to discuss? That you think that Lindsey Lohan and her autotuners did a better version of the cult classic "I Want you to Want Me" than the band who is the subject of this post? Very strange. 20 years from now, people will still remember Cheap Trick, and few will have any clue as to who Ms Lohan was.

I realize that I'm turning you into more of a totem than is probably warranted, but I'm fascinated by your mentality, as it's so foreign to me.

What is even more striking, though, is your unwavering and vocal commitment to your unredeemably crappy taste in music (Hillary Duff, for fuck's sake?). It's almost refreshing.
Keep the faith.
posted by psmealey at 4:28 AM on December 7, 2006

20 years from now, people will still remember Cheap Trick, and few will have any clue as to who Ms Lohan was

I beg to differ. 20 years from now, ask anybody who is currently between the ages of, say, 15 and 30, if they remember Lindsay Lohan, and they most assuredly will. They may not remember any of her SONGS, but they will certainly remember her :)
posted by antifuse at 4:41 AM on December 7, 2006

And you are unique little snowflake.

one of these days, i'm going to read a fight club reference that's actually understanding of the irony and satire of the book ... until then, i guess there's mindless snowflake comments

(yes, i'm sick of it ... this meme needs to die ... it needs to die hard ... it needs to be hung in the burning town on a gibbet so the crows can peck out its eyes while the women and children run around and cry out in lamentation ... it needs to be buried in an unmarked grave in the world's biggest kennel, right in the corner where all the dogs like to go)

your favorite meme sucks
posted by pyramid termite at 4:57 AM on December 7, 2006

I find it interesting that, because I enjoy a different genre of music to you, you automatically ascribe motives to me ("mindlessly"?). And because you choose whether to enjoy music based on gimmicks like whether it will be remembered in 20 years' time (that's supposed to be insult?) or whether you happen to live in the same town as the musicians, you get to call yourself more discerning?

You get all the mass produced garbage you can possibly want pumped into the marketplace

And you get to hear stuff you like every night at every indie club in every town and your opinion agreed with in every music magazine.

(And none of the albums I mentioned upthread has been promoted in this country, and the Lohan album at least wasn't released here for several months after it was in the US, and my local indie record shop sure as hell didn't stock it, so actually hearing about and getting hold of this stuff takes work)
posted by cillit bang at 6:49 AM on December 7, 2006

In summary, the song is draggy, and does not rock. It's a soft-rock song at best. And this post stayed up because jonmc has Dipsomatic Immunity due to his low user number. The end.
posted by interrobang at 10:31 AM on December 7, 2006

In summary, the song is draggy, and does not rock. It's a soft-rock song at best. And this post stayed up because jonmc has Dipsomatic Immunity due to his low user number. The end.
posted by interrobang at 1:31 PM EST on December 7

And because it was hilarious. Some didn't see the humour, but I think that because people's sense of humour differs, much like their musical taste and judgement.
posted by juiceCake at 12:26 PM on December 7, 2006