Pinochet finally dead
December 11, 2006 12:32 PM Subscribe
I was suprised to learn today that few of my friends have heard of Augusto Pinochet.
He died yesterday(NYT, requires login) at 91 after being responsible for the deaths of thousands - , some famous, some unknown.
The US has finally declassified documents that show our active involvement in the coup that caused the death of Chile's democratically elected president, and put Pinochet into office.
Please let's not forget the other September 11th.
This post was deleted for the following reason: um, double
That sucks. I looked and didn't see the post. Next time I use the 'find' function.
posted by serazin at 12:39 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by serazin at 12:39 PM on December 11, 2006
Regrettably I admit that I only know of Pinochet because of MST3K.
Mike, Crow and Tom: What the!posted by owenkun at 12:41 PM on December 11, 2006
Servo: They took out the Hitler Building! Where's everyone gonna go to see Hitler memorabilia!?
Crow: What next, the Mussolini Mall?
Servo: Followed by the Pinochet Petting Zoo.
I looked and didn't see the post. Next time I use the 'find' function.
These things happen, but here's the thread you missed..
posted by Nugget at 12:43 PM on December 11, 2006
These things happen, but here's the thread you missed..
posted by Nugget at 12:43 PM on December 11, 2006
some famous, some unknown.
And some of them were American citizens.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:44 PM on December 11, 2006
And some of them were American citizens.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:44 PM on December 11, 2006
some famous, some unknown.
And some of them were American citizens.
Yeah. That's what makes it all so important.
posted by dash_slot- at 12:46 PM on December 11, 2006
And some of them were American citizens.
Yeah. That's what makes it all so important.
posted by dash_slot- at 12:46 PM on December 11, 2006
I was surprised to learn that some of my friends didn't know the correct name of this type of mushroom.
You having stupid friends does not equal metafilter post.
posted by docgonzo at 12:55 PM on December 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
You having stupid friends does not equal metafilter post.
posted by docgonzo at 12:55 PM on December 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
If our country went this nuts over one democratically elected South American Socialist, our overlords must be shitting pickles right now.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 12:58 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by Benny Andajetz at 12:58 PM on December 11, 2006
StupidFriends: the MetaFilter it's OK to like
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 12:59 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 12:59 PM on December 11, 2006
You having stupid friends does not equal metafilter post.
That was harsh, especially since the post itself was much much better than the one it doubled.
posted by found missing at 1:01 PM on December 11, 2006
That was harsh, especially since the post itself was much much better than the one it doubled.
posted by found missing at 1:01 PM on December 11, 2006
sorry, one too many muches
posted by found missing at 1:02 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by found missing at 1:02 PM on December 11, 2006
You can pretty much assume that if someone even halfway famous dies, it will appear on the front page before the body gets cold.
posted by found missing at 1:08 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by found missing at 1:08 PM on December 11, 2006
I remember seeing the film The Official Story when I was little girl. I was born in 1974, and seeing that film is the first time I remember being aware of South American dictatorships and the legacy of the desaparecidos. I guess I'm lucky that I was raised in the kind of family that thought it was important I know about this kind of thing.
posted by Sara Anne at 1:10 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by Sara Anne at 1:10 PM on December 11, 2006
Still a cut above hope-he-gets-what-he-deserves-filter.
posted by dreamsign at 1:11 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by dreamsign at 1:11 PM on December 11, 2006
I spent some time in Chile in the 80's training members of their military as part of a UNITAS exercise.
Walking down the street in Santiago, one of the guys on my team stopped and took a picture of the snipers on top of the (pretty sure it was) Treasury Building.
He was detained in less than a minute. Took a call from our CO to the Embassy to get him cut loose
Boo Scary place government-wise.
Other than that...cheap beer and pretty girls, and a room in the Holiday Inn courtesy of the US gov.
posted by timsteil at 1:14 PM on December 11, 2006
Walking down the street in Santiago, one of the guys on my team stopped and took a picture of the snipers on top of the (pretty sure it was) Treasury Building.
He was detained in less than a minute. Took a call from our CO to the Embassy to get him cut loose
Boo Scary place government-wise.
Other than that...cheap beer and pretty girls, and a room in the Holiday Inn courtesy of the US gov.
posted by timsteil at 1:14 PM on December 11, 2006
our overlords must be shitting pickles right now
...and I welcome them.
As
they
shit
pickles.
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:15 PM on December 11, 2006
...and I welcome them.
As
they
shit
pickles.
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:15 PM on December 11, 2006
Benny: If our country went this nuts over one democratically elected South American Socialist, our overlords must be shitting pickles right now.
I suspect the reason that Cháves is still alive is because although the hand-wringing over Pinochet, Noriega, and the Contras didn't do much politically to the individuals responsible for funding and excusing terrorism and torture in the Americas, there was enough of a scandal to force them to be more descrete than previously.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 1:15 PM on December 11, 2006
I suspect the reason that Cháves is still alive is because although the hand-wringing over Pinochet, Noriega, and the Contras didn't do much politically to the individuals responsible for funding and excusing terrorism and torture in the Americas, there was enough of a scandal to force them to be more descrete than previously.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 1:15 PM on December 11, 2006
As James Brown would say...
Please please please please
(please please, oh oh)
please, please, please
(please, please, oh oh)
darlin please do oh...
posted by R. Mutt at 1:16 PM on December 11, 2006
Please please please please
(please please, oh oh)
please, please, please
(please, please, oh oh)
darlin please do oh...
posted by R. Mutt at 1:16 PM on December 11, 2006
foundmissing- I appreciate you being gentle about my double post. Here’s to a little human kindness! I was surprised that I didn't see a post about Pinochet yesterday (cuz I wasn't looking hard enough I guess). Anyway, I hope at least some of the links here are interesting - the last one in particular links to a number of articles and films that explore the topic in more depth.
If not, I sincerely apologize for ruining everyone's day with a double post. I know just how deeply troubling having to skim past two posts on the same topic can be. Almost on par with the human rights abuses perpetrated by Pinochet I’d say. Please go back to watching youtube videos of people snorting spaghetti through their noses and so forth.
And to docgonzo: you sound really cute, can I have your number?
posted by serazin at 1:17 PM on December 11, 2006
If not, I sincerely apologize for ruining everyone's day with a double post. I know just how deeply troubling having to skim past two posts on the same topic can be. Almost on par with the human rights abuses perpetrated by Pinochet I’d say. Please go back to watching youtube videos of people snorting spaghetti through their noses and so forth.
And to docgonzo: you sound really cute, can I have your number?
posted by serazin at 1:17 PM on December 11, 2006
He'd dead. But for how long!?
I heard a reporter, I think it was on NPR, over the weekend kept saying “Pin-o-chet” instead of “Penoshay” and he spoke in such an authoritative tone detailing his life and history it made me laugh so hard I practically crapped my slacks.
So your friends aren’t alone. But some people must do nothing but jerk off all day. I mean I first learned about Pinochet as a kid playing strategy games. How does one go through life and not simply absorb some of this stuff?
posted by Smedleyman at 1:23 PM on December 11, 2006
I heard a reporter, I think it was on NPR, over the weekend kept saying “Pin-o-chet” instead of “Penoshay” and he spoke in such an authoritative tone detailing his life and history it made me laugh so hard I practically crapped my slacks.
So your friends aren’t alone. But some people must do nothing but jerk off all day. I mean I first learned about Pinochet as a kid playing strategy games. How does one go through life and not simply absorb some of this stuff?
posted by Smedleyman at 1:23 PM on December 11, 2006
Don't laugh too hard. "chet" is the correct pronunciation of the last syllable.
posted by found missing at 1:26 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by found missing at 1:26 PM on December 11, 2006
See, now people are laughing at you. How's it feel? Not so great, I'm guessing.
posted by found missing at 1:28 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by found missing at 1:28 PM on December 11, 2006
haha Smedleyman pwnt
posted by thirteenkiller at 1:40 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by thirteenkiller at 1:40 PM on December 11, 2006
In high school Spanish we learned pee-noh-CHET. BUT--his father was descended from Bretons, i.e. from Brittany, i.e. France. So it all depends on whose language you want to pronounce it in.
posted by heydanno at 1:42 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by heydanno at 1:42 PM on December 11, 2006
But Breton pronounces final consonants. Deuet mat oc'h.
posted by languagehat at 1:55 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by languagehat at 1:55 PM on December 11, 2006
We read The House of the Spirits in high school (written by Isabel Allende, grandaughter of the murdered Allende) and I was blown away by how many kids thought it was a work of complete fiction.
posted by fshgrl at 1:56 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by fshgrl at 1:56 PM on December 11, 2006
How to say Pinochet
Like too many BBC Pronunciation Unit recommendations, that one is terrible. "Yeah, just go on saying it the wrong way you've been saying it, 'cause you're British so you can't be expected to do any better!"
posted by languagehat at 1:56 PM on December 11, 2006
Like too many BBC Pronunciation Unit recommendations, that one is terrible. "Yeah, just go on saying it the wrong way you've been saying it, 'cause you're British so you can't be expected to do any better!"
posted by languagehat at 1:56 PM on December 11, 2006
I'm trying hard to think of a US foreign policy that has not caused the death and suffering of millions.
posted by mattoxic at 1:57 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by mattoxic at 1:57 PM on December 11, 2006
VOA and LOC say "CHET".
On preview, damn those descriptivists at the BBC.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:59 PM on December 11, 2006
On preview, damn those descriptivists at the BBC.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:59 PM on December 11, 2006
mattoxic writes "I'm trying hard to think of a US foreign policy that has not caused the death and suffering of millions."
Don't try too hard to wear your idiocy on your sleeve.
posted by mr_roboto at 2:00 PM on December 11, 2006
Don't try too hard to wear your idiocy on your sleeve.
posted by mr_roboto at 2:00 PM on December 11, 2006
* smoothvirus:
don't forget Charles Horman and Frank Terrugi.
* dash_slot:
yes, the deaths of US citizens are extraordinarily important, not because Americans are more important than Chileans, but because the coup, the deaths, disappearances, the torture, and the fascism were not simply an internal Chilean matter, but a direct US government intervention.
just as Pinochet and the Chilean military put its interests over those of his country, US politicians put their interests over those of American citizens, and that side of the story can be well understood by learning about people like Charlie, who may have been killed on behalf of the US, precisely because he was privy to information about the extent of US involvement.
posted by mano at 2:00 PM on December 11, 2006
don't forget Charles Horman and Frank Terrugi.
* dash_slot:
yes, the deaths of US citizens are extraordinarily important, not because Americans are more important than Chileans, but because the coup, the deaths, disappearances, the torture, and the fascism were not simply an internal Chilean matter, but a direct US government intervention.
just as Pinochet and the Chilean military put its interests over those of his country, US politicians put their interests over those of American citizens, and that side of the story can be well understood by learning about people like Charlie, who may have been killed on behalf of the US, precisely because he was privy to information about the extent of US involvement.
posted by mano at 2:00 PM on December 11, 2006
you're British so you can't be expected to do any better!
I'm with you so far...
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:02 PM on December 11, 2006
I'm with you so far...
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:02 PM on December 11, 2006
Salvador Allende was Isabel Allende's uncle.
posted by found missing at 2:03 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by found missing at 2:03 PM on December 11, 2006
Ah, why do only the good die young?
posted by clevershark at 2:05 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by clevershark at 2:05 PM on December 11, 2006
Smedleyman, this morning on NPR Steve Inskeep addressed the pronunciation question. According to Peter Kornbluh, editor of The Pinochet File. both pronunciations of Pinochet are correct, depending on if you are speaking English or Spanish. That's news to me, I always thought you should pronounce it the way it is in spanish "pino-shay".
posted by Dr. Twist at 2:13 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by Dr. Twist at 2:13 PM on December 11, 2006
Ah, why do only the good die young?
Exactly--good riddance to him and all like him.
posted by amberglow at 2:16 PM on December 11, 2006
Exactly--good riddance to him and all like him.
posted by amberglow at 2:16 PM on December 11, 2006
yes, the deaths of US citizens are extraordinarily important, not because Americans are more important than Chileans, but because the coup, the deaths, disappearances, the torture, and the fascism were not simply an internal Chilean matter, but a direct US government intervention.
just as Pinochet and the Chilean military put its interests over those of his country, US politicians put their interests over those of American citizens, and that side of the story can be well understood by learning about people like Charlie, who may have been killed on behalf of the US, precisely because he was privy to information about the extent of US involvement.
Wow. All that was implied by "some famous, some unknown.
And some of them were American citizens.
posted by smoothvirus at 8:44 PM "? Whodathunkit?
As it happens, I was reading the news at the time. Save your belated history lessons for those that need it. Several have been spotted in this thread.
posted by dash_slot- at 2:17 PM on December 11, 2006
just as Pinochet and the Chilean military put its interests over those of his country, US politicians put their interests over those of American citizens, and that side of the story can be well understood by learning about people like Charlie, who may have been killed on behalf of the US, precisely because he was privy to information about the extent of US involvement.
Wow. All that was implied by "some famous, some unknown.
And some of them were American citizens.
posted by smoothvirus at 8:44 PM "? Whodathunkit?
As it happens, I was reading the news at the time. Save your belated history lessons for those that need it. Several have been spotted in this thread.
posted by dash_slot- at 2:17 PM on December 11, 2006
let's hope Kissinger is next before he does even more damage.
posted by amberglow at 2:18 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by amberglow at 2:18 PM on December 11, 2006
In other news, Pinochet is still valiantly fighting to remain dead....
posted by fixedgear at 2:22 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by fixedgear at 2:22 PM on December 11, 2006
Finally a worthwhile topic of discussion... pronunciation. Thanks for the BBC link, caddis. I use to do announcing at a station that used BBC pronunication guides for composers, and for the most part they were excellent. They do have their quirks, such as pronouncing Richard Wagner's first name in English and last name as a German would.
posted by QuietDesperation at 2:23 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by QuietDesperation at 2:23 PM on December 11, 2006
Don't try too hard to wear your idiocy on your sleeve.
Ahh sorry mr_roboto, I only thinking of Iraq, Iran, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. Niguagua, El Salvador, Palestine, Guatemala, Lebanon, Honduras, Nicaragua - oh, and Chile.
Me and my silly sleeve
posted by mattoxic at 2:35 PM on December 11, 2006
Ahh sorry mr_roboto, I only thinking of Iraq, Iran, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. Niguagua, El Salvador, Palestine, Guatemala, Lebanon, Honduras, Nicaragua - oh, and Chile.
Me and my silly sleeve
posted by mattoxic at 2:35 PM on December 11, 2006
That's not ALL the countries! So there!
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:38 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:38 PM on December 11, 2006
You forgot Poland!
posted by dash_slot- at 2:38 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by dash_slot- at 2:38 PM on December 11, 2006
serazin: I really liked this post. Double or no, the links were very informative.
posted by brina at 2:48 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by brina at 2:48 PM on December 11, 2006
That's news to me, I always thought you should pronounce it the way it is in spanish "pino-shay".
That's not a Spanish pronunciation, it's more French. Spanish doesn't pronounce "-et" endings as "-ay". Even in Chile people pronounce the name both ways.
For some bizarre it doesn't seem like anyone knows what the "official" pronunciation is, although I remember reading that he himself pronounced it "Pih-noh-CHET", which would be the technically correct Spanish pronunciation (although the name itself is probably of French origin).
posted by chundo at 2:53 PM on December 11, 2006
That's not a Spanish pronunciation, it's more French. Spanish doesn't pronounce "-et" endings as "-ay". Even in Chile people pronounce the name both ways.
For some bizarre it doesn't seem like anyone knows what the "official" pronunciation is, although I remember reading that he himself pronounced it "Pih-noh-CHET", which would be the technically correct Spanish pronunciation (although the name itself is probably of French origin).
posted by chundo at 2:53 PM on December 11, 2006
mattoxic writes "Ahh sorry mr_roboto...[list of nations]"
So you can name these several countries, but you can't think of a single US foreign policy initiative that hasn't resulted in the deaths of millions? That's some pretty monumental historical ignorance on your part. Just off the top of my head... the Strategic Arms Limitation Talks, the Camp David Accords, opening diplomatic relations with the PRC, the United Nations, NATO intervention in the former Yugoslavia, leadership in the development of the Montreal Protocol, and efforts to contain nuclear materials in former Soviet countries. The US does plenty of stuff, and there's good along with the bad. Grandiose hyperbole does, in fact, make you look like an idiot.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:00 PM on December 11, 2006
So you can name these several countries, but you can't think of a single US foreign policy initiative that hasn't resulted in the deaths of millions? That's some pretty monumental historical ignorance on your part. Just off the top of my head... the Strategic Arms Limitation Talks, the Camp David Accords, opening diplomatic relations with the PRC, the United Nations, NATO intervention in the former Yugoslavia, leadership in the development of the Montreal Protocol, and efforts to contain nuclear materials in former Soviet countries. The US does plenty of stuff, and there's good along with the bad. Grandiose hyperbole does, in fact, make you look like an idiot.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:00 PM on December 11, 2006
I think it's time for some new friends.
posted by Hildegarde at 3:12 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by Hildegarde at 3:12 PM on December 11, 2006
I think that one of the reasons of all this confusion regarding pronunciation is that, although the correct pronunciation in Spanish would be Pin-oh-CHET, most Spanish-speakers, and in particular Latin American Spanish-speakers, actually have a lot of trouble pronouncing closing consonants. So, the "T" is quite easily going to go missing.
"CH" is also variously pronounced throughout the Spanish-speaking world. Pronounciation can range from a very soft "SH" around the Caribbean to a very hard "TCH" in Spain. I'd say Chilean must be somewhere in between.
posted by Skeptic at 3:32 PM on December 11, 2006
"CH" is also variously pronounced throughout the Spanish-speaking world. Pronounciation can range from a very soft "SH" around the Caribbean to a very hard "TCH" in Spain. I'd say Chilean must be somewhere in between.
posted by Skeptic at 3:32 PM on December 11, 2006
Which pronunciation made him grate his teeth and will make him roll over in his grave? That's the one I want to use.
posted by dhartung at 3:32 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by dhartung at 3:32 PM on December 11, 2006
I always thought you should pronounce it the way it is in spanish "pino-shay".
I'm hoping this is a joke. Otherwise I'm going to grate my teeth and roll over in my grave.
posted by languagehat at 3:49 PM on December 11, 2006
I'm hoping this is a joke. Otherwise I'm going to grate my teeth and roll over in my grave.
posted by languagehat at 3:49 PM on December 11, 2006
Who the hell are your friends?!
People who don't follow international politics all that closely. Not everyone has the time, ability, or inclination.
posted by jonmc at 3:53 PM on December 11, 2006
People who don't follow international politics all that closely. Not everyone has the time, ability, or inclination.
posted by jonmc at 3:53 PM on December 11, 2006
In other news, Pinochet is still valiantly fighting to remain dead....
Yeah!! Franco, Pinochet, who can tell the difference?
posted by hwestiii at 4:16 PM on December 11, 2006
Yeah!! Franco, Pinochet, who can tell the difference?
posted by hwestiii at 4:16 PM on December 11, 2006
“haha Smedleyman pwnt”
*craps slacks*
So it’s Chet Gueverra then? (we were in a frat together)
Somebody tell Stephen Colbert he’s pronouncing his name wrong. It should be ‘Stefan Cole-burt’ (or is that his spanish t.v. counterpart?).
...in that vein - I wonder how Pinochet pronounced his own name?
“I’m ‘ow GOOS tow Pee-noh-SHayyy’ bitch!”
By the way, I heard he’s dead - so far.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:53 PM on December 11, 2006
*craps slacks*
So it’s Chet Gueverra then? (we were in a frat together)
Somebody tell Stephen Colbert he’s pronouncing his name wrong. It should be ‘Stefan Cole-burt’ (or is that his spanish t.v. counterpart?).
...in that vein - I wonder how Pinochet pronounced his own name?
“I’m ‘ow GOOS tow Pee-noh-SHayyy’ bitch!”
By the way, I heard he’s dead - so far.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:53 PM on December 11, 2006
... the contemporary right's continuing praise of Pinochet. I think this is the context in which you have to understand American conservatism's generally blasé attitude toward the Bush administration's more modest ventures into the fields of arbitrary detention, corruption, and torture. Years of apologizing for the deployment of such tactics by America's proxies abroad naturally desensitizes the political culture to the re-importation of these methods to the center. ...
posted by amberglow at 4:57 PM on December 11, 2006
posted by amberglow at 4:57 PM on December 11, 2006
Pino-ChET hurts my rustic midwestern ears. It’s just too keen. It doesn’t flow - Fonzie-like - into the next word. I just don’t like it. Tell you what, let me be Mr. Purple. That sounds good to me, I'm Mr. Purple.
Did you guys hear about Pinochet? He's dead, apparently.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:59 PM on December 11, 2006
Did you guys hear about Pinochet? He's dead, apparently.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:59 PM on December 11, 2006
(Man, this left-right dichotomy? Totally good for the country, and completely doesn’t distract from how wealth and power are concentrated in certain quarters. If you’re able to show someone on the right or left how wrong they were for paying lip service to Pinochet or Castro - you’re totally going to...uh...
Whatever the case - it’s a real issue, not some technique to divide and distract intelligent thought and prevent bringing subtative issues to the fore, that’d be as silly and near-impossible as forcing divisions among people because of skin color or some silly such thing and making them focus on trivialities and surface appearance rather than deeper issues. Phht. Crazy.)
((The venom is reserved for those who initiate and perpetuate it, not for you amberglow. It is a discussion board after all.))
posted by Smedleyman at 5:13 PM on December 11, 2006
Whatever the case - it’s a real issue, not some technique to divide and distract intelligent thought and prevent bringing subtative issues to the fore, that’d be as silly and near-impossible as forcing divisions among people because of skin color or some silly such thing and making them focus on trivialities and surface appearance rather than deeper issues. Phht. Crazy.)
((The venom is reserved for those who initiate and perpetuate it, not for you amberglow. It is a discussion board after all.))
posted by Smedleyman at 5:13 PM on December 11, 2006
« Older La Planète sauvage | Why don't you come to your senses? Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by found missing at 12:36 PM on December 11, 2006