teacher
May 26, 2007 12:11 AM Subscribe
Teacher appears to let students grope her backside. Some boys took camera phone video of them groping the female teacher. Appears she doesn't know, or shes ignoring it. Video shows a boy with his hand down the back of her pants. Cruel prank, or was she allowing them? Or maybe fake news article.
This post was deleted for the following reason: link definitely MIA. -- jessamyn -- jessamyn
Is any FPP that contains something to the effect of "this could be fake" a good FPP?
posted by Justinian at 12:17 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by Justinian at 12:17 AM on May 26, 2007
from IronWolve:
Cruel prank, or was she allowing them?
From the article:
The young teacher doesn't bat an eyelid despite the obvious sexual abuse.
Do I really have to say what should be obvious? She's the one abusing them.
posted by roll truck roll at 12:21 AM on May 26, 2007
Cruel prank, or was she allowing them?
From the article:
The young teacher doesn't bat an eyelid despite the obvious sexual abuse.
Do I really have to say what should be obvious? She's the one abusing them.
posted by roll truck roll at 12:21 AM on May 26, 2007
Having been to Italy, I can't say it surprises me. My very first time there I had a man very literally SIT ON ME while I was minding my own business, sitting on a bench & writing a letter in a park. I was completely freaked out & didn't know what to do so I too pretended to ignore him.
Yeah, didn't work for me either.
posted by miss lynnster at 12:26 AM on May 26, 2007
Yeah, didn't work for me either.
posted by miss lynnster at 12:26 AM on May 26, 2007
Wait... wait... what appear to be teenage boys are groping a female teacher and she's abusing them?
posted by Justinian at 12:26 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by Justinian at 12:26 AM on May 26, 2007
...Cruel prank, or was she allowing them? That and Storm Field with weather on My 9 News at 10.
posted by daninnj at 12:27 AM on May 26, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by daninnj at 12:27 AM on May 26, 2007 [2 favorites]
Didnt apear she reacted at all when I saw it, and I couldnt google another newssite talking about it, but its not english news.. Dunno, seems wierd if its true, but then humans are wierd.
posted by IronWolve at 12:31 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by IronWolve at 12:31 AM on May 26, 2007
Christ. A post that consisted of a picture of your cat would have been better.
posted by cytherea at 12:32 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by cytherea at 12:32 AM on May 26, 2007
THIS LADY TEACHER IS A GREAT HUMANITARIAN AND A SAINT! LET THERE BE THONGS AND GROPING AND FONDLING OF HER HUMP, HER HUMP, HER HUMP, HER LOVELY LITTLES LUMPS.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 12:33 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by Foci for Analysis at 12:33 AM on May 26, 2007
The MetaFilter Police are on the case, no worries.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:40 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:40 AM on May 26, 2007
Wait... wait... what appear to be teenage boys are groping a female teacher and she's abusing them?
When it's a female teacher, it's always her fault.
Male teachers are lured, you see: it's never their fault. But female teachers are always the culprits when things like this happen.
Also, despite the fact that the ratio of male teachers who abuse as compared to female ones is (according to a local police officer) about 500 to 1, it's much more important to highlight the female teachers who do so. What's more, male teachers who harm boys should be pointed out far more often than male teachers who harm girls. You see, when a boy is harmed it's much more serious than when a girl is harmed. Girls are meant to be harmed, right? They're worthless anyway.
That's why the 15 charges in the past year in my hometown alone against male teachers harming girls haven't made it to page C42 of the local paper, yet a female teacher who harms a boy makes international headlines. Boys are worth more.
posted by watsondog at 12:51 AM on May 26, 2007 [9 favorites]
I am so tired of the idea (and laws!) that female teachers 'abuse' adolescent males by having sexual contact with them. 'Abuse' at the very least should entail some sort of negative emotions - at some point! - on the part of the 'victim'. More appropriately those negative emotions should be persistent, intrusive, stressful, or otherwise damaging to normal psychological or physical health. The evidence simply doesn't show any sort of psychological harm from these encounters, which is obvious to any male anyway (oh noes, an older woman let me have my way with her - it's every adolescent boy's nightmare!!).
Females really can/do get hurt by the same thing. I'm entirely comfortable with laws based around sex differences.
posted by dgaicun at 12:56 AM on May 26, 2007 [2 favorites]
Females really can/do get hurt by the same thing. I'm entirely comfortable with laws based around sex differences.
posted by dgaicun at 12:56 AM on May 26, 2007 [2 favorites]
How does this post relate to lolcats again?
posted by ORthey at 12:59 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by ORthey at 12:59 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
i can haz teacherbunz!
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:07 AM on May 26, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:07 AM on May 26, 2007 [3 favorites]
I bet she grades on a curve.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 1:12 AM on May 26, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 1:12 AM on May 26, 2007 [3 favorites]
watsondog - the failure of the media to report male abuse of female students is not because boys are special. It's because unfortunately it is so common compared to female abuse of male pupils. The media often ignore the 'public good' part of the remit, and focus on the unusual and lurid because it sells papers.
Dog bites man is not news. Man bites dog is.
What would more evidence of a bias in the system would be a comparison of the sentences handed down after conviction, weighted for severity of the crime.
Oh, and these videos are evidence of boys abusing their teacher, not the other way around. Except, this is italy, and there simply is a culture of casual male fondling of female strangers, especially the buttocks. I find it very shocking every time I see it, but I'm assured it can happen multiple times daily if you're a pretty girl - you just get used to it. I find that even worse.
posted by ArkhanJG at 1:12 AM on May 26, 2007
Dog bites man is not news. Man bites dog is.
What would more evidence of a bias in the system would be a comparison of the sentences handed down after conviction, weighted for severity of the crime.
Oh, and these videos are evidence of boys abusing their teacher, not the other way around. Except, this is italy, and there simply is a culture of casual male fondling of female strangers, especially the buttocks. I find it very shocking every time I see it, but I'm assured it can happen multiple times daily if you're a pretty girl - you just get used to it. I find that even worse.
posted by ArkhanJG at 1:12 AM on May 26, 2007
That's why the 15 charges in the past year in my hometown alone against male teachers harming girls haven't made it to page C42 of the local paper, yet a female teacher who harms a boy makes international headlines. Boys are worth more.
Seem like pretty implausible concerns, yo. I don't know if your anecdote is true, but if so the media more plausibly focuses in on female-male simply because the stories are more titillating. (in that Reefer Madness finger-pointing-as-cryptic-porno kinduv way) Ironicallyness: the rareness may be precisely why they make bigger headlines.
Both men and women, it seems, care more about female sexual abuse; this is why female rape is generally viewed with more horror than murder, while male rape (which is approximately as prevalent as female rape b/c of extreme male overrepresentation in our inhumanely run prisons) is mostly viewed as a silly punchline.
posted by dgaicun at 1:16 AM on May 26, 2007
Seem like pretty implausible concerns, yo. I don't know if your anecdote is true, but if so the media more plausibly focuses in on female-male simply because the stories are more titillating. (in that Reefer Madness finger-pointing-as-cryptic-porno kinduv way) Ironicallyness: the rareness may be precisely why they make bigger headlines.
Both men and women, it seems, care more about female sexual abuse; this is why female rape is generally viewed with more horror than murder, while male rape (which is approximately as prevalent as female rape b/c of extreme male overrepresentation in our inhumanely run prisons) is mostly viewed as a silly punchline.
posted by dgaicun at 1:16 AM on May 26, 2007
What would more evidence of a bias in the system would be a comparison of the sentences handed down after conviction, weighted for severity of the crime.
William Saletan covered this.
posted by dgaicun at 1:17 AM on May 26, 2007
William Saletan covered this.
posted by dgaicun at 1:17 AM on May 26, 2007
watsondog typed "Also, despite the fact that the ratio of male teachers who abuse as compared to female ones is (according to a local police officer) about 500 to 1, it's much more important to highlight the female teachers who do so. What's more, male teachers who harm boys should be pointed out far more often than male teachers who harm girls. You see, when a boy is harmed it's much more serious than when a girl is harmed. Girls are meant to be harmed, right? They're worthless.
Okay, that's just rude.
Creating and maintaining a safe environment is the role of the teacher. Period. The fact that, in this case, the teacher was one of the people being exposed to a sexually hostile environment does not somehow relieve her of her basic responsibilities as teacher.
To suggest that a grown woman is powerless in the face of two horny boys, that's sexist.
posted by roll truck roll at 1:25 AM on May 26, 2007
Okay, that's just rude.
Creating and maintaining a safe environment is the role of the teacher. Period. The fact that, in this case, the teacher was one of the people being exposed to a sexually hostile environment does not somehow relieve her of her basic responsibilities as teacher.
To suggest that a grown woman is powerless in the face of two horny boys, that's sexist.
posted by roll truck roll at 1:25 AM on May 26, 2007
You guys are sure putting your carts before your wheels. What the fuck is going on in these videos?
posted by phaedon at 1:28 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by phaedon at 1:28 AM on May 26, 2007
I think you owe me for spewing "coffee" all over my keyboard.
Ok, now that I look like a complete perv*, I'd like to say that I was implying that this looks like it might just be some amateur pornography. I tried to find evidence for it but now all I have is some interesting search history in yahoo video (german amateur teacher porn).
*Am, actually
posted by Citizen Premier at 1:34 AM on May 26, 2007
Ok, now that I look like a complete perv*, I'd like to say that I was implying that this looks like it might just be some amateur pornography. I tried to find evidence for it but now all I have is some interesting search history in yahoo video (german amateur teacher porn).
*Am, actually
posted by Citizen Premier at 1:34 AM on May 26, 2007
More embarrassing than that is I now realize the video was Italian.
posted by Citizen Premier at 1:35 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by Citizen Premier at 1:35 AM on May 26, 2007
Crossing a child's sexual boundaries in a teacher-child relationship includes the inability to set appropriate boundaries with a child, who may be simply acting out on hormones and/or ignorance. Children who have themselves been sexually abused often act out in sexually inappropriate ways.
Obviously, these kids don't see what they are doing is wrong, gang-groping their teacher and the teacher is in some kind of pedophilic daze. Her not setting appropriate boundaries with them is a type of sexual abuse, it is a criminal offense and rightly so.
It is up to adults, particularly teachers and parents, to guide children and teach them how to be sane human beings in an age-appropriate way. If a toddler wants to stick their finger in the electric outlet, it's up to the parent/teacher to say no and set limits. Just because a kid wants to gorge on sweets every day and do nothing but watch TV or play games doesn't mean that's in the best interest of the kid. Some things may look fun on the surface but they are, in fact, damaging.
Groping a teacher, whatever gender, is not in the best interest of a child's development or well-being.
posted by nickyskye at 1:40 AM on May 26, 2007 [2 favorites]
Obviously, these kids don't see what they are doing is wrong, gang-groping their teacher and the teacher is in some kind of pedophilic daze. Her not setting appropriate boundaries with them is a type of sexual abuse, it is a criminal offense and rightly so.
It is up to adults, particularly teachers and parents, to guide children and teach them how to be sane human beings in an age-appropriate way. If a toddler wants to stick their finger in the electric outlet, it's up to the parent/teacher to say no and set limits. Just because a kid wants to gorge on sweets every day and do nothing but watch TV or play games doesn't mean that's in the best interest of the kid. Some things may look fun on the surface but they are, in fact, damaging.
Groping a teacher, whatever gender, is not in the best interest of a child's development or well-being.
posted by nickyskye at 1:40 AM on May 26, 2007 [2 favorites]
watsondog writes "Male teachers are lured, you see: it's never their fault."
This FPP writes: "In 2006, a teacher was banned from teaching after he allowed a girl from his class to sexually grope him."
posted by Bugbread at 1:48 AM on May 26, 2007
This FPP writes: "In 2006, a teacher was banned from teaching after he allowed a girl from his class to sexually grope him."
posted by Bugbread at 1:48 AM on May 26, 2007
Obviously, these kids don't see what they are doing is wrong, gang-groping their teacher and the teacher is in some kind of pedophilic daze. Her not setting appropriate boundaries with them is a type of sexual abuse, it is a criminal offense and rightly so.
OK, I went to a school like this. This is back in the late 60's. Mixed gender school, mixed gender teachers.
One of the things that used to be considered great sport would be to feign touching the cute teacher's ass or breasts while she was trying to teach, in front of the rest of the class. It wasn't regarded as a sexual thing, so much as it was a showing off thing. Every now and again, teacher would catch someone in a particularly egregious piece of molestation, and would slap their face or send them out of the room, but I don't recall anyone ever being sent to see the headmaster for it.
Why not? Well, my guess is that these were young teachers in their first teaching jobs, and it was important to them to show that they could control their classroom. If they were sending boys to the headmaster's office every five minutes, or allowing the class to be so disrupted by these occasional pieces of nonsense that they never got any teaching done, that would hugely undermine their mission.
One thing I'm completely clear about though, is that the only person being sexually abused in my classroom 30 some years ago, and in those videos is the teacher. If the teacher was consenting to the boys behaviour, they wouldn't be hiding behind her, or doing it while she was distracted on the phone, etc. precisely the same sort of strategies boys in my own class would adopt.
Those boys are victimizers, not victims, and to cast them in the role of victims is to completely fly in the face of reason. and to victimize the real victimizer for a third time -- the original assault and the postings on the net being the first and second assaults.
And people wonder why our schools can't hire decent teachers?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 1:56 AM on May 26, 2007 [10 favorites]
OK, I went to a school like this. This is back in the late 60's. Mixed gender school, mixed gender teachers.
One of the things that used to be considered great sport would be to feign touching the cute teacher's ass or breasts while she was trying to teach, in front of the rest of the class. It wasn't regarded as a sexual thing, so much as it was a showing off thing. Every now and again, teacher would catch someone in a particularly egregious piece of molestation, and would slap their face or send them out of the room, but I don't recall anyone ever being sent to see the headmaster for it.
Why not? Well, my guess is that these were young teachers in their first teaching jobs, and it was important to them to show that they could control their classroom. If they were sending boys to the headmaster's office every five minutes, or allowing the class to be so disrupted by these occasional pieces of nonsense that they never got any teaching done, that would hugely undermine their mission.
One thing I'm completely clear about though, is that the only person being sexually abused in my classroom 30 some years ago, and in those videos is the teacher. If the teacher was consenting to the boys behaviour, they wouldn't be hiding behind her, or doing it while she was distracted on the phone, etc. precisely the same sort of strategies boys in my own class would adopt.
Those boys are victimizers, not victims, and to cast them in the role of victims is to completely fly in the face of reason. and to victimize the real victimizer for a third time -- the original assault and the postings on the net being the first and second assaults.
And people wonder why our schools can't hire decent teachers?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 1:56 AM on May 26, 2007 [10 favorites]
Those boys are victimizers, not victims, and to cast them in the role of victims is to completely fly in the face of reason.
It's not entirely clear to my non-Italian-speaking ass what is going on here, and who if anyone is the victim. My first instinct was to agree with dgaicun, that nobody here is a victim. Then I think nickyskye makes a good point, that she's setting these boys up for confused notions of proper sexual behavior that could be bad for themselves and society. And you have a point, maybe they've somehow coerced her into putting up with their molestation. Frankly, it might clear up the situation if I knew exactly what people in the video were saying, but even then I suspect that this one might remain a hard call.
posted by Edgewise at 2:07 AM on May 26, 2007
It's not entirely clear to my non-Italian-speaking ass what is going on here, and who if anyone is the victim. My first instinct was to agree with dgaicun, that nobody here is a victim. Then I think nickyskye makes a good point, that she's setting these boys up for confused notions of proper sexual behavior that could be bad for themselves and society. And you have a point, maybe they've somehow coerced her into putting up with their molestation. Frankly, it might clear up the situation if I knew exactly what people in the video were saying, but even then I suspect that this one might remain a hard call.
posted by Edgewise at 2:07 AM on May 26, 2007
PeterMcDermott, The boys are acting out inappropriately. I'm not saying what they are doing is right, it isn't. They are sexually harassing their teacher. I don't know at what age that is a crime and at what age it is considered 'merely' deliquent.
However, it is criminal that the teacher is actively not setting appropriate sexual boundaries with the kids and not allowing them to touch her, when she is in a position of authority and a trusted employee of the school and of the parents of the kids. She is not the victim here because she has a choice to say no, act on her authority and wisdom as an adult and she isn't. To the best of my limited understanding about the law in this kind of situation, she is committing a breach of fiduciary duty.
posted by nickyskye at 2:17 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
However, it is criminal that the teacher is actively not setting appropriate sexual boundaries with the kids and not allowing them to touch her, when she is in a position of authority and a trusted employee of the school and of the parents of the kids. She is not the victim here because she has a choice to say no, act on her authority and wisdom as an adult and she isn't. To the best of my limited understanding about the law in this kind of situation, she is committing a breach of fiduciary duty.
posted by nickyskye at 2:17 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
I don't see it at all, Edgewise. Firstly, they aren't boys, they're young men. They *know* what constitutes proper sexual behavior or they wouldn't be surreptitiously acting out behind her back while their friends film it.
Two things. Firstly, the teachers (is it one or two) have lost control of their classroom. However, in a situation where you don't have effective sanctions, it's hard to see what else they can do. Europe isn't like the USA, where you can get the cop in from the corridor to tazer their ass. These kids don't give a fuck about what this teacher thinks of them -- nevertheless, her job is to get back in that classroom with them, day after day, and try and maintain some semblance of order in which the other kids can learn.
Secondly, that first teacher should do herself a favour and lose the goddam thong in the classroom. Although I'm sure that when she dressed in trousers that morning, she had no idea just how visible it would be to that pack of hormone-poisoned adolescent boys.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:25 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
Two things. Firstly, the teachers (is it one or two) have lost control of their classroom. However, in a situation where you don't have effective sanctions, it's hard to see what else they can do. Europe isn't like the USA, where you can get the cop in from the corridor to tazer their ass. These kids don't give a fuck about what this teacher thinks of them -- nevertheless, her job is to get back in that classroom with them, day after day, and try and maintain some semblance of order in which the other kids can learn.
Secondly, that first teacher should do herself a favour and lose the goddam thong in the classroom. Although I'm sure that when she dressed in trousers that morning, she had no idea just how visible it would be to that pack of hormone-poisoned adolescent boys.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:25 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
nickyskye writes "Obviously, these kids don't see what they are doing is wrong"
Then why the video camera, and why the laughter? I agree that the teacher should be doing more to stop the kids (though I don't know if her negligence/fear/whathaveyou qualifies her as a victimizer and the kids as victims), but it's pretty clear to me that the kids know what they are doing is wrong.
posted by Bugbread at 2:28 AM on May 26, 2007
Then why the video camera, and why the laughter? I agree that the teacher should be doing more to stop the kids (though I don't know if her negligence/fear/whathaveyou qualifies her as a victimizer and the kids as victims), but it's pretty clear to me that the kids know what they are doing is wrong.
posted by Bugbread at 2:28 AM on May 26, 2007
A little more reading on the breach of fiduciary duty: "Sexual contact with a client is a violation of the professional's "fiduciary" duty to that client." In this case the students and their parents are clients of the school and the teachers in that school.
posted by nickyskye at 2:28 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by nickyskye at 2:28 AM on May 26, 2007
bugbread, You're right. I should have said they don't have the perspective to see the extent of the wrong they are doing, simply because they are kids and haven't that adult understanding.
posted by nickyskye at 2:30 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by nickyskye at 2:30 AM on May 26, 2007
I don't accept your characterisation of the situation, Nicky Skye. What you see here is literally, a couple of seconds of video footage from what was almost certainly an hour in the classroom. In none of the footage that I saw did the teachers appear to be tolerating or inviting the inappropriate touching that we saw.
Again, back to my youth. I can remember a boy in my class being called out to the teachers desk to have his work marked. As he stood in the front of the class, he snuck his hand beneath her breast and cupped it as she leaned over the desk and discussed his work. He held that position for a good two minutes as she went into detail about the problems with his maths, as the rest of us fell about laughing and hooting at this sight.
When she finally realized what was going on, she hauled off and slapped him in the face. Today, she'd have been fired for that as well, but my point was that somebody could stand and watch the first two minutes of what was going on in my classroom and assume that that teacher was also somehow 'consenting' to her sexual harrassment. She wasn't, and again, to blame the teacher rather than blame the boys here, with so little context other than a couple of seconds of film clip seems to me to be blaming the victim.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:34 AM on May 26, 2007
Again, back to my youth. I can remember a boy in my class being called out to the teachers desk to have his work marked. As he stood in the front of the class, he snuck his hand beneath her breast and cupped it as she leaned over the desk and discussed his work. He held that position for a good two minutes as she went into detail about the problems with his maths, as the rest of us fell about laughing and hooting at this sight.
When she finally realized what was going on, she hauled off and slapped him in the face. Today, she'd have been fired for that as well, but my point was that somebody could stand and watch the first two minutes of what was going on in my classroom and assume that that teacher was also somehow 'consenting' to her sexual harrassment. She wasn't, and again, to blame the teacher rather than blame the boys here, with so little context other than a couple of seconds of film clip seems to me to be blaming the victim.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:34 AM on May 26, 2007
PeterMcDermott, From the link posted it says: "In the first video students can be seen "touching" and "fondling" their teacher. The young teacher doesn't bat an eyelid despite the obvious sexual abuse.
The teacher seems to be on her desk explaining while the student embraces and fondles her. Another student is then seen flexing his fingers as he caresses the teacher's bottom.
Another hand is then seen entering the teacher's jeans, undisturbed. In fact, the teacher never disapproves the behaviour of the students, and keeps talking to the rest of the students nonchalantly.
When the first video hit YouTube and other websites, Lecce authorities immediately suspended the lecturer and investigated the matter.
However a second video has been posted on the internet, where the same teacher can be seen talking on her mobile phone. From the back a student mimes sexual acts and touches repeatedly his teacher."
Sounds like a repeat performace and the teacher is repeatedly doing nothing to stop the inappropriate acting out.
posted by nickyskye at 2:44 AM on May 26, 2007
The teacher seems to be on her desk explaining while the student embraces and fondles her. Another student is then seen flexing his fingers as he caresses the teacher's bottom.
Another hand is then seen entering the teacher's jeans, undisturbed. In fact, the teacher never disapproves the behaviour of the students, and keeps talking to the rest of the students nonchalantly.
When the first video hit YouTube and other websites, Lecce authorities immediately suspended the lecturer and investigated the matter.
However a second video has been posted on the internet, where the same teacher can be seen talking on her mobile phone. From the back a student mimes sexual acts and touches repeatedly his teacher."
Sounds like a repeat performace and the teacher is repeatedly doing nothing to stop the inappropriate acting out.
posted by nickyskye at 2:44 AM on May 26, 2007
There are quite a few possible scenarios:
posted by Bugbread at 2:46 AM on May 26, 2007 [4 favorites]
- She hasn't noticed - She's not at fault. Kids are at fault.
- She asked them to do it - She's at fault. Kids are not at fault.
- She's had problems with the students before, but the principal said "Look, I don't care what they do, just getting them to come to school and stay at school is a nightmare. As long as they're not hurting you, and they're in the classroom, just shut up and bear it." - She's not at fault. Kids are at fault. Principal is at fault.
- She's sent kids out of the classroom for this, and their parents kicked up a fuss, saying she had no right to deprive them of their right to an education. Other disciplining attempts have all failed, and her hands are tied. - She's not at fault. Kids are at fault. Parents are at fault.
posted by Bugbread at 2:46 AM on May 26, 2007 [4 favorites]
nickyskye writes "However a second video has been posted on the internet, where the same teacher can be seen talking on her mobile phone. From the back a student mimes sexual acts and touches repeatedly his teacher.'
"Sounds like a repeat performace and the teacher is repeatedly doing nothing to stop the inappropriate acting out."
Er, I parse that totally differently: if she's been suspended, and this second video popped up, it doesn't seem like a repeat performance, but another video of the same performance on the same day for which she got suspended. She's dressed identically, so that seems likely.
posted by Bugbread at 2:49 AM on May 26, 2007
"Sounds like a repeat performace and the teacher is repeatedly doing nothing to stop the inappropriate acting out."
Er, I parse that totally differently: if she's been suspended, and this second video popped up, it doesn't seem like a repeat performance, but another video of the same performance on the same day for which she got suspended. She's dressed identically, so that seems likely.
posted by Bugbread at 2:49 AM on May 26, 2007
nickyskye -- I can see how the article characterizes it. What I'm saying is that I've been in similar situations and am intimately familiar with the students behaviour and perspective in this situation, and that characterization doesn't look fair to me. Those young men are touching her very lightly, from behind. Because of how she's sitting, she may very well not be aware of the fact that she's being touched. The young men seem to be walking a tightrope of trying to maximize the appearance of touching -- because that gets them maximum bravado points with their friends -- while minimizing the chances of alerting the teacher to their inappropriate behaviour. Though I'll admit that the second boy who actually does slip his hand into her pants was sailing extremely close to the wind.
Re. the second clip, yes, the boy was definitely being inappropriate -- but she was in the middle of a phone call. Who knows who she was talking to? Perhaps it was her husband? Perhaps it was her boss? She pretty quickly ended the call, and the molestation ended at that point. If she was genuinely encouraging or tolerating it, as you suggest, then surely the molestation would continue unremarked.
I'm not suggesting that this teacher has good control over her students -- as I said in my first post, I think the exact opposite is true. However, to be characterising her victimization as perpetuating sexual abuse just seems utterly, utterly wrong to me.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:58 AM on May 26, 2007
Re. the second clip, yes, the boy was definitely being inappropriate -- but she was in the middle of a phone call. Who knows who she was talking to? Perhaps it was her husband? Perhaps it was her boss? She pretty quickly ended the call, and the molestation ended at that point. If she was genuinely encouraging or tolerating it, as you suggest, then surely the molestation would continue unremarked.
I'm not suggesting that this teacher has good control over her students -- as I said in my first post, I think the exact opposite is true. However, to be characterising her victimization as perpetuating sexual abuse just seems utterly, utterly wrong to me.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:58 AM on May 26, 2007
The more I think of it, the more I think the teacher had to be unaware of what was going on behind her back. If she were aware and approved, your average high-school kid, if he were the kind to do this kind of thing, would be less furtive and involve less hiding behind her.
posted by Bugbread at 3:04 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by Bugbread at 3:04 AM on May 26, 2007
Nickyskye, as far as I can tell all the reading material (and the site in general) that you linked refers to sexual exploitation of the client, not by the client. I acknowledge your position that her apparent inaction is itself a form of exploitation, and that these are kids too young to be making rational decisions, but...
...when it comes down to it, these boys are the ones initiating sexual contact. When it comes down to it, there are more of them than there are of her. When it comes down to it, if their locality is anything like what I see in the US, she may be limited in her response by the fear that her job and reputation may be jeopardized by too "harsh" a reaction.
And really, they don't look that young... maybe they're not legal adults, but they're not exactly kindergarteners eating the paste either.
posted by Riki tiki at 3:04 AM on May 26, 2007
...when it comes down to it, these boys are the ones initiating sexual contact. When it comes down to it, there are more of them than there are of her. When it comes down to it, if their locality is anything like what I see in the US, she may be limited in her response by the fear that her job and reputation may be jeopardized by too "harsh" a reaction.
And really, they don't look that young... maybe they're not legal adults, but they're not exactly kindergarteners eating the paste either.
posted by Riki tiki at 3:04 AM on May 26, 2007
This story is pretty weird and confusing... I just can't see why, even if there was serious sexual intent, they would do it in front of the entire class.
posted by chuckdarwin at 3:23 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by chuckdarwin at 3:23 AM on May 26, 2007
Riki tiki, sexual exploitation of the client, not by the client
Yes, of the client. The children are the clients of the school and the teacher, they are being exploited by not being appropriately treated as students/children (legally children) and the teacher repeatedly not stopping the sexual harassment but acting totally non-chalant, looking in her mirror etc while being fondled by the group of boys.
Gee, it's pretty disheartening that nobody in this thread sees how the teacher's repeated inaction to stop being touched inappropriately by her students is a form of child abuse and apparently why she was dismissed.
I tried, and obviously failed, to make that point. Perhaps there will be more articulate commenters who can convey what I have been unable to express. Time to get some shut eye.
posted by nickyskye at 3:27 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yes, of the client. The children are the clients of the school and the teacher, they are being exploited by not being appropriately treated as students/children (legally children) and the teacher repeatedly not stopping the sexual harassment but acting totally non-chalant, looking in her mirror etc while being fondled by the group of boys.
Gee, it's pretty disheartening that nobody in this thread sees how the teacher's repeated inaction to stop being touched inappropriately by her students is a form of child abuse and apparently why she was dismissed.
I tried, and obviously failed, to make that point. Perhaps there will be more articulate commenters who can convey what I have been unable to express. Time to get some shut eye.
posted by nickyskye at 3:27 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
Riki tiki, sexual exploitation of the client, not by the client
Yes, of the client. The children are the clients of the school and the teacher, they are being exploited by not being appropriately treated as students/children (legally children) and the teacher repeatedly not stopping the sexual harassment but acting totally non-chalant, looking in her mirror etc while being fondled by the group of boys.
Gee, it's pretty disheartening that nobody in this thread sees how the teacher's repeated inaction to stop being touched inappropriately by her students is a form of child abuse and apparently why she was dismissed.
I tried, and obviously failed, to make that point. Perhaps there will be more articulate commenters who can convey what I have been unable to express. Time to get some shut eye.
posted by nickyskye at 3:28 AM on May 26, 2007
Yes, of the client. The children are the clients of the school and the teacher, they are being exploited by not being appropriately treated as students/children (legally children) and the teacher repeatedly not stopping the sexual harassment but acting totally non-chalant, looking in her mirror etc while being fondled by the group of boys.
Gee, it's pretty disheartening that nobody in this thread sees how the teacher's repeated inaction to stop being touched inappropriately by her students is a form of child abuse and apparently why she was dismissed.
I tried, and obviously failed, to make that point. Perhaps there will be more articulate commenters who can convey what I have been unable to express. Time to get some shut eye.
posted by nickyskye at 3:28 AM on May 26, 2007
nickyskye writes "Gee, it's pretty disheartening that nobody in this thread sees how the teacher's repeated inaction to stop being touched inappropriately by her students is a form of child abuse and apparently why she was dismissed. "
Nickyskye: You're a good person. Go back and reread what folks are saying. Some people are saying that there is the possibility that 1) She isn't noticing it, 2) It may be "repeated" only in the sense of "during the same class period", 3) She wants to stop it, but can't, for various possible reasons.
I'm not saying that you need to agree with those possibilities, but if a person does believe that those are true, I'd find it more disheartening if they did see it as child abuse ("Kids pretended to hump you behind your back, and you didn't notice, but that still makes you guilty of child abuse!")
posted by Bugbread at 3:40 AM on May 26, 2007
Nickyskye: You're a good person. Go back and reread what folks are saying. Some people are saying that there is the possibility that 1) She isn't noticing it, 2) It may be "repeated" only in the sense of "during the same class period", 3) She wants to stop it, but can't, for various possible reasons.
I'm not saying that you need to agree with those possibilities, but if a person does believe that those are true, I'd find it more disheartening if they did see it as child abuse ("Kids pretended to hump you behind your back, and you didn't notice, but that still makes you guilty of child abuse!")
posted by Bugbread at 3:40 AM on May 26, 2007
Victim or victimized? abused or abuser? the urge to apportion responsibility to this or that party seems compulsive in these comments (and in general). Responsibility is collective, folk. Here and elsewhere. Labelling one or other the victim here is simplistic, and smacks of fundamentalism. Cheers.
posted by fcummins at 3:40 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by fcummins at 3:40 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
After watching the video, it appears, that when the touching gets more aggressively, the teacher does attempt to remove the hands.
And yeah, the boys knew what they were doing was wrong.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:45 AM on May 26, 2007
And yeah, the boys knew what they were doing was wrong.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:45 AM on May 26, 2007
fcummins writes "Responsibility is collective, folk. Here and elsewhere."
Fcummins is right. It's his fault.
posted by Bugbread at 3:46 AM on May 26, 2007
Fcummins is right. It's his fault.
posted by Bugbread at 3:46 AM on May 26, 2007
Gee, it's pretty disheartening that nobody in this thread sees how the teacher's repeated inaction to stop being touched inappropriately by her students is a form of child abuse and apparently why she was dismissed.
Well, perhaps it might be related to the fact that she wasn't dismissed at all? That was a male teacher who was continuously allowing a single female student to touch him inappropriately. A very different situation altogether. According to the link, the teacher in this video was suspended pending an investigation.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:49 AM on May 26, 2007
Well, perhaps it might be related to the fact that she wasn't dismissed at all? That was a male teacher who was continuously allowing a single female student to touch him inappropriately. A very different situation altogether. According to the link, the teacher in this video was suspended pending an investigation.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:49 AM on May 26, 2007
This has been around since February, I discover after a brief google search.
matteo?
The mysteries are more mysterious than Lost!
posted by asok at 3:49 AM on May 26, 2007
matteo?
The mysteries are more mysterious than Lost!
posted by asok at 3:49 AM on May 26, 2007
bugbread writes 'fcummins writes 'Fcummins is right. It's his fault.'
Fcummins believes in taking responsibility. That's why he favourites his own posts. If he doesn't do it, who else will?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:54 AM on May 26, 2007 [2 favorites]
Fcummins believes in taking responsibility. That's why he favourites his own posts. If he doesn't do it, who else will?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:54 AM on May 26, 2007 [2 favorites]
Nickyskye: I'm not missing that point (I explicitly acknowledged it in my post), I'm just disagreeing with it.
I don't envy you. I think you're fighting an uphill battle, saying that the passive recipient of sexual attention is culpable. Your position probably comes uncomfortably close to the "she was inviting it with her outfit/behavior/sexual history" apologia of rape for a lot of people here.
Sure, it's more complicated than that when kids are involved; the teachers are supposed to be the responsible adults, and more and more they're also expected to guide their students' social development when the parents are unable or unwilling.
We'd probably be more sympathetic to that argument if these were ten-year-olds -- clearly too young to know better and less physically intimidating to an adult. But the kids in these videos don't qualify.
posted by Riki tiki at 3:54 AM on May 26, 2007
I don't envy you. I think you're fighting an uphill battle, saying that the passive recipient of sexual attention is culpable. Your position probably comes uncomfortably close to the "she was inviting it with her outfit/behavior/sexual history" apologia of rape for a lot of people here.
Sure, it's more complicated than that when kids are involved; the teachers are supposed to be the responsible adults, and more and more they're also expected to guide their students' social development when the parents are unable or unwilling.
We'd probably be more sympathetic to that argument if these were ten-year-olds -- clearly too young to know better and less physically intimidating to an adult. But the kids in these videos don't qualify.
posted by Riki tiki at 3:54 AM on May 26, 2007
That's not fake. Now that's Italian!
posted by DenOfSizer at 4:05 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by DenOfSizer at 4:05 AM on May 26, 2007
La Dolce Obsessione
posted by squidfartz at 4:08 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by squidfartz at 4:08 AM on May 26, 2007
miss lynnster writes "Having been to Italy, I can't say it surprises me. My very first time there I had a man very literally SIT ON ME "
Metafilter : she said she wanted to visit the art and Rome and ta-ta, but all he just went for some hot sitting action (with Rocco Siffredi )!
posted by elpapacito at 4:28 AM on May 26, 2007
Metafilter : she said she wanted to visit the art and Rome and ta-ta, but all he just went for some hot sitting action (with Rocco Siffredi )!
posted by elpapacito at 4:28 AM on May 26, 2007
well, there'a an old saying: if you're Italian you can pinh girls and be 'simpatico,' if you're Lithuanian and pinch girls, you're a sex maniac.
posted by jonmc at 4:36 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by jonmc at 4:36 AM on May 26, 2007
elpapacito, that sounds like some reverse reverse anal cowboy going on there.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:40 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:40 AM on May 26, 2007
Yes, it's been around since February. Y'all are a bit behind.
Naturally it was all over the news channels at the time. The professoressa claimed that as soon as she realised what they were up to, she sent them to the principal, called their parents and consequently there is a written report. She did not realise, however that they were filming with cell phones.
An investigation was started and she was officialy charged with sexual acts with and corruption of minors, in addition to erm, shirking responsibilities in general. [brainfart in English on the actual proper term, sorry]
And I've haven't really heard anything since then, or can't recall any major updates. The wheels of justice here run a bit slow at times, but I can't imagine that anything really juicy, so to speak, wouldn't be trumpeted all over the nightly news.
And seeing as the Saturdaymorningafternoon coffee hasn't kicked in yet, I'll just address all the typical *snicker*Dem Eyetalians*snicker* comments that always pop up with a nice hearty vai a farti fottere, figlio d'una boccinara.
posted by romakimmy at 4:59 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
Naturally it was all over the news channels at the time. The professoressa claimed that as soon as she realised what they were up to, she sent them to the principal, called their parents and consequently there is a written report. She did not realise, however that they were filming with cell phones.
An investigation was started and she was officialy charged with sexual acts with and corruption of minors, in addition to erm, shirking responsibilities in general. [brainfart in English on the actual proper term, sorry]
And I've haven't really heard anything since then, or can't recall any major updates. The wheels of justice here run a bit slow at times, but I can't imagine that anything really juicy, so to speak, wouldn't be trumpeted all over the nightly news.
And seeing as the Saturday
posted by romakimmy at 4:59 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
bocchinara kimmy, bocchinara ! Would you please use proper language ?! It's a shame I say, a shame !
posted by elpapacito at 5:06 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by elpapacito at 5:06 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
ma daje, I said the coffee hadn't kicked in yet, hence the lousy spelling.
Aww, who am I kidding. My spelling sucks in any language.
posted by romakimmy at 5:15 AM on May 26, 2007
Aww, who am I kidding. My spelling sucks in any language.
posted by romakimmy at 5:15 AM on May 26, 2007
Well that's very on the theme, sucking is appreciated in any language indeed !
posted by elpapacito at 5:16 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by elpapacito at 5:16 AM on May 26, 2007
After being together a few months, my ex told me she had slept with a 17 year-old when she was 31. The relationship didn't last much longer... I got the feeling like she was just testing the waters in telling me that, like it was just the tip of some horrifying iceberg of sexual deviance. Now I get creeped out every time a story like this comes up in the news, thinking maybe for a while I was a Mr. LeFave.
posted by autodidact at 5:24 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by autodidact at 5:24 AM on May 26, 2007
I frankly can't believe this thread.
What I see in the videos: A young, attractive female teacher, possibly a sub, tries to actually do her job and teach a class (*gasp*) while 3-4 male teenage pupils surreptitiously simulate fondling, always behind her back. When she actually does feel something, she firmly removes the offending hand. When the videos filmed by the pupils are leaked, she is the one dismissed and charged for inappropriate sexual behaviour.
Two things really annoy hugely me about some of the comments here:
a) "She is in a position of authority, so she's guilty." Really!? Does it seem from the videos like the boys really have any respect for her? What authority? From the moment some see the pupils as "clients", as some also argue here, teachers cease to have any authority. The customer is always right, isn't it? I really don't envy the lot of teachers like her these days, trying to civilise what amounts to a horde of savages without any support whatsoever from parents or authorities. You may as well try to assert your "authority" on a pack of hungry hyenas.
b) "This amounts to child abuse!"
What children? At the risk of making myself look like a card-carrying member of NAMBLA at the eyes of some, it is time to assert once and for all that teenagers != children, especially when it comes to sexual matters. And they, male as well as female, can very well be sexual predators, perhaps even more so since, first, they are in the middle of a hormone OD, and second, they are less aware of the consequences for themselves as well as for their victims. What are these boys' ages? 16? 17, even? Do you realise that most soldiers in all wars throughout Mankind's wretched history weren't any older than that? And the Devil knows that didn't stop many of them from raping civilians of any age that had the misfortune to find themselves in their path.
Finally, romakimmy, as somebody who shared in his youth a class with a flock of hormone-crazed dem Eyetalian boys: "Non mi far' ridere!"
posted by Skeptic at 5:29 AM on May 26, 2007
What I see in the videos: A young, attractive female teacher, possibly a sub, tries to actually do her job and teach a class (*gasp*) while 3-4 male teenage pupils surreptitiously simulate fondling, always behind her back. When she actually does feel something, she firmly removes the offending hand. When the videos filmed by the pupils are leaked, she is the one dismissed and charged for inappropriate sexual behaviour.
Two things really annoy hugely me about some of the comments here:
a) "She is in a position of authority, so she's guilty." Really!? Does it seem from the videos like the boys really have any respect for her? What authority? From the moment some see the pupils as "clients", as some also argue here, teachers cease to have any authority. The customer is always right, isn't it? I really don't envy the lot of teachers like her these days, trying to civilise what amounts to a horde of savages without any support whatsoever from parents or authorities. You may as well try to assert your "authority" on a pack of hungry hyenas.
b) "This amounts to child abuse!"
What children? At the risk of making myself look like a card-carrying member of NAMBLA at the eyes of some, it is time to assert once and for all that teenagers != children, especially when it comes to sexual matters. And they, male as well as female, can very well be sexual predators, perhaps even more so since, first, they are in the middle of a hormone OD, and second, they are less aware of the consequences for themselves as well as for their victims. What are these boys' ages? 16? 17, even? Do you realise that most soldiers in all wars throughout Mankind's wretched history weren't any older than that? And the Devil knows that didn't stop many of them from raping civilians of any age that had the misfortune to find themselves in their path.
Finally, romakimmy, as somebody who shared in his youth a class with a flock of hormone-crazed dem Eyetalian boys: "Non mi far' ridere!"
posted by Skeptic at 5:29 AM on May 26, 2007
Well Skeptic, maybe I am misreading your comment, but here's why it wasn't intended to make you laugh.
Because the stereotypes are old, and I'm just a cranky expat who lives here.
As you point out in your comment above (with which I rather agree, by the way), boys of that age are on a hormone OD. I would imagine we all had one or two or even a group of fellow students who were constantly needling the teacher or acting out.
My opinion would be that such behaviour is due to a combination of personality, peer pressure and possible parenting issues, and their ethnic or cultural background is rather irrelevant (seeing as the subject at hand is not a case of stranger in a strange land).
posted by romakimmy at 6:04 AM on May 26, 2007
shared in his youth a class with a flock of hormone-crazeddem Eyetalianboys
Because the stereotypes are old, and I'm just a cranky expat who lives here.
As you point out in your comment above (with which I rather agree, by the way), boys of that age are on a hormone OD. I would imagine we all had one or two or even a group of fellow students who were constantly needling the teacher or acting out.
My opinion would be that such behaviour is due to a combination of personality, peer pressure and possible parenting issues, and their ethnic or cultural background is rather irrelevant (seeing as the subject at hand is not a case of stranger in a strange land).
posted by romakimmy at 6:04 AM on May 26, 2007
Bad form all round. My granny gave me some advice once that I have never forgotten and always found helpful. “BostonJake,” she said “Never put anything down on paper that you wouldn’t want to see printed on the front page of the Globe.” Recording yourself groping the teacher would certainly apply.
As for old professor butt floss, of course she knew someone had their hand down her pants. Don’t be silly. I don’t care how carefree your society is, when finger hits butt crack, it registers. She didn’t seem to mind, I don’t see abuse here, just lack of maturity all round.
posted by BostonJake at 6:08 AM on May 26, 2007 [2 favorites]
As for old professor butt floss, of course she knew someone had their hand down her pants. Don’t be silly. I don’t care how carefree your society is, when finger hits butt crack, it registers. She didn’t seem to mind, I don’t see abuse here, just lack of maturity all round.
posted by BostonJake at 6:08 AM on May 26, 2007 [2 favorites]
Must be public school.
posted by four panels at 6:09 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by four panels at 6:09 AM on May 26, 2007
Ah, romakimmy, maybe I am old, but I went to a secondary school with many different nationalities and, while there was friskiness all around, the Italian boys were definitely among the friskiest, or at least the ones who took the most competitive approach to it.
I prefer to avoid prejudice, but sometimes there is a grain of truth in stereotypes, especially cultural ones...
posted by Skeptic at 6:15 AM on May 26, 2007
I prefer to avoid prejudice, but sometimes there is a grain of truth in stereotypes, especially cultural ones...
posted by Skeptic at 6:15 AM on May 26, 2007
BostonJake : when finger hits butt crack, it registers
Well, that's the point. I can't see a clear contact until the end of the video, when the teacher suddenly sits back and appears to catch the hand of the pupil who was exploring her jeans. Then the image moves, presumably because the boys realise they've just been caught in their little game of "Operation".
Maybe I should watch it again a few times to make sure...
posted by Skeptic at 6:29 AM on May 26, 2007
Well, that's the point. I can't see a clear contact until the end of the video, when the teacher suddenly sits back and appears to catch the hand of the pupil who was exploring her jeans. Then the image moves, presumably because the boys realise they've just been caught in their little game of "Operation".
Maybe I should watch it again a few times to make sure...
posted by Skeptic at 6:29 AM on May 26, 2007
To add to what romakimmy said, strangely enough there all the blame wasn't on the teacher or on the students. It was on videophones and on youtube!
We are the very lucky owners of a minister for education who think we shall filter the internet like china does, who think it's his authority to decide if a violent game should be distributed or not.
His only action after this teacher scandal was banning videophones in schools. That's stupid. It will not stop violence or sexual abuses. Instead, it will made them invisibles like they was in the good old times: Occhio non vede cuore non duole (you can't be harmed by what you can't see).
I really can't believe I have voted for this bunch of idiots. I can has serious country plz?
posted by darkripper at 6:29 AM on May 26, 2007
We are the very lucky owners of a minister for education who think we shall filter the internet like china does, who think it's his authority to decide if a violent game should be distributed or not.
His only action after this teacher scandal was banning videophones in schools. That's stupid. It will not stop violence or sexual abuses. Instead, it will made them invisibles like they was in the good old times: Occhio non vede cuore non duole (you can't be harmed by what you can't see).
I really can't believe I have voted for this bunch of idiots. I can has serious country plz?
posted by darkripper at 6:29 AM on May 26, 2007
nickyskye:
I really don't see where the hell your line of reasoning is coming from. You might as well be accusing Hotmail of complicity in a vast ISP conspiracy while threatening to cut off your right hand. It seems that ridiculous.
Blaming the victim? Come on!
These are not children, these are full grown asshat jocks trying to fuck with their teacher and be the heroes of their little bunch of chavs for the month.
You are so wrong here. I don't get it, you usually comment with jessamyn-level reason.
posted by blasdelf at 6:55 AM on May 26, 2007
I really don't see where the hell your line of reasoning is coming from. You might as well be accusing Hotmail of complicity in a vast ISP conspiracy while threatening to cut off your right hand. It seems that ridiculous.
Blaming the victim? Come on!
These are not children, these are full grown asshat jocks trying to fuck with their teacher and be the heroes of their little bunch of chavs for the month.
You are so wrong here. I don't get it, you usually comment with jessamyn-level reason.
posted by blasdelf at 6:55 AM on May 26, 2007
I have to say, it really does look to me as though hands are on her ass well before a hand attempts to go, like, IN her ass. I will grant, however, that depth perception may be skewed by the poor video quality and the fact that the image is not in 3-D. If there was no actual touching until that last kid stuck his hand down her pants, then I can easily believe that she didn't know what was going on previously. If there was previous touching, then she drew a line at, y'know, getting fingered. I'm unsure as to which actually happened -- either one seems believable enough to me.
At the risk of sounding sexist, though, even if the teacher was a victim here, exposing one's thong to a roomful of teenage boys is the kind of thing that makes me question her judgment. I'm not saying a thong is an invitation to fondle or anything of the sort (because, frankly, if this was unwanted touching, the little fuckers should have their fingers slammed in a car door RIGHT NOW, and as many times as it takes for them to get the message that this is not how we roll here in civilization), but I would suggest that flashing your panties at your students is not a good way to get them to take you seriously and treat you with respect. You are not clubbing, madam. < / patrician sniffle>
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:12 AM on May 26, 2007
At the risk of sounding sexist, though, even if the teacher was a victim here, exposing one's thong to a roomful of teenage boys is the kind of thing that makes me question her judgment. I'm not saying a thong is an invitation to fondle or anything of the sort (because, frankly, if this was unwanted touching, the little fuckers should have their fingers slammed in a car door RIGHT NOW, and as many times as it takes for them to get the message that this is not how we roll here in civilization), but I would suggest that flashing your panties at your students is not a good way to get them to take you seriously and treat you with respect. You are not clubbing, madam. < / patrician sniffle>
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:12 AM on May 26, 2007
Pedophilia? Victims? Child abuse?
Americans really need to get over their obsessions about children and sex. At this point the lack of perspective is just plain embarrassing. The backwards comments in this thread borders on parody. There are no victims in that video, no innocents or guilty, no exploitation and certainly no pedophilia. Seriously, get over it.
As for the teacher's dismissal of the teacher it's unfortunate but it's clear with the video making international headlines the school would need to act out of decorum. I just hope the kids were ejected. It's one thing to tease or play with teachers but filming it and putting it on the net is extremely poor taste and shouldn't be tolerated.
posted by nixerman at 7:12 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
Americans really need to get over their obsessions about children and sex. At this point the lack of perspective is just plain embarrassing. The backwards comments in this thread borders on parody. There are no victims in that video, no innocents or guilty, no exploitation and certainly no pedophilia. Seriously, get over it.
As for the teacher's dismissal of the teacher it's unfortunate but it's clear with the video making international headlines the school would need to act out of decorum. I just hope the kids were ejected. It's one thing to tease or play with teachers but filming it and putting it on the net is extremely poor taste and shouldn't be tolerated.
posted by nixerman at 7:12 AM on May 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
Seriously, these guys are 18 year olds, not 8 year olds.
posted by blasdelf at 7:18 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by blasdelf at 7:18 AM on May 26, 2007
I've heard, but can't confirm, that under Italian law a man can legally touch the bottom of a woman on the street, and she, in turn, may slap his face, but only with an open hand.
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:23 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:23 AM on May 26, 2007
Oh, that poor woman. My guess is that she probably just ignoring it because that sort of thing happens in Italy all the time (and wouldn't be that remarkable to her anyway) And because trying to deal with it would just be a never-ending battle.
Also, despite the fact that the ratio of male teachers who abuse as compared to female ones is (according to a local police officer) about 500 to 1, it's much more important to highlight the female teachers who do so...
That's why the 15 charges in the past year in my hometown alone against male teachers harming girls haven't made it to page C42 of the local paper, yet a female teacher who harms a boy makes international headlines. Boys are worth more.
Or it could just be that things that are rare are news, and things which are not rare are... not news.
The idea that she's victimizing them though, is absolutely insane.
posted by delmoi at 7:33 AM on May 26, 2007
Also, despite the fact that the ratio of male teachers who abuse as compared to female ones is (according to a local police officer) about 500 to 1, it's much more important to highlight the female teachers who do so...
That's why the 15 charges in the past year in my hometown alone against male teachers harming girls haven't made it to page C42 of the local paper, yet a female teacher who harms a boy makes international headlines. Boys are worth more.
Or it could just be that things that are rare are news, and things which are not rare are... not news.
The idea that she's victimizing them though, is absolutely insane.
posted by delmoi at 7:33 AM on May 26, 2007
Ah, the American urge to criminalize anything sexual, and then find a victim over which they might coo - the right-wingers take the first half, the left-wingers take the last. My guess is that it's some ghastly hybrid of Puritan uptightness in an extremely uncomfortable marriage to the "every act of heterosexual sex is rape" child bride: the only thing they can agree on is that somewhere, someone is doing something naughty that offends them.
The urge is so strong, it even overwhelms the usual half-assed cultural inferiority complex the country has going, where Americans stand back, look a bit puzzled, and say, "Well, that's just their way, and perhaps we shouldn't judge." Where's the " ... and a good time was had by all" option? Evidently there is none, because there simply must be an abuser and someone must be scarred for life by this dreadful experience.
posted by adipocere at 7:46 AM on May 26, 2007 [5 favorites]
The urge is so strong, it even overwhelms the usual half-assed cultural inferiority complex the country has going, where Americans stand back, look a bit puzzled, and say, "Well, that's just their way, and perhaps we shouldn't judge." Where's the " ... and a good time was had by all" option? Evidently there is none, because there simply must be an abuser and someone must be scarred for life by this dreadful experience.
posted by adipocere at 7:46 AM on May 26, 2007 [5 favorites]
I suspect that the teacher suffers from "Numb Butt" and is ignorant of the tomfoolery going on behind her.
posted by _aa_ at 8:03 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by _aa_ at 8:03 AM on May 26, 2007
I've heard, but can't confirm, that under Italian law a man can legally touch the bottom of a woman on the street, and she, in turn, may slap his face, but only with an open hand.
Well, damn. Now I feel like I missed out on a whole lot of bottom touching last time I was there. But seriously, sometimes I get too embarrassed by my over-sexed puerile countrymen. I blame the Catholic church.
As for the second video, I'm confused as to why the teacher would make a phone call in front of her class, but I second (or third) the notion that she may have had some idea of what was going on, but tried to ignore it, because, as was shown by the action taken against her, she is obviously powerless to begin with and to acknowledge the asshats teens she would be feeding into their fantasies.
Anyhow keep those pungent Italian sayings coming...
posted by Skygazer at 8:08 AM on May 26, 2007
Well, damn. Now I feel like I missed out on a whole lot of bottom touching last time I was there. But seriously, sometimes I get too embarrassed by my over-sexed puerile countrymen. I blame the Catholic church.
As for the second video, I'm confused as to why the teacher would make a phone call in front of her class, but I second (or third) the notion that she may have had some idea of what was going on, but tried to ignore it, because, as was shown by the action taken against her, she is obviously powerless to begin with and to acknowledge the asshats teens she would be feeding into their fantasies.
Anyhow keep those pungent Italian sayings coming...
posted by Skygazer at 8:08 AM on May 26, 2007
I can't believe that these two short, crappy video clips, from Europe, with absolutely no back story or explanation, had garnered 80+ posts here. (Yes, I realize my post makes me part of the problem)
posted by glycolized at 8:21 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by glycolized at 8:21 AM on May 26, 2007
Gee, it's pretty disheartening that nobody in this thread sees how the teacher's repeated inaction to stop being touched inappropriately by her students is a form of child abuse and apparently why she was dismissed.
This is dangerously close to saying "she shouldn't have been wearing that dress."
Also, I am quite amused by MetaFilter's ability to turn any thread into a "LOL USA" thread even when it has nothing to do with the U.S.
posted by oaf at 8:21 AM on May 26, 2007
This is dangerously close to saying "she shouldn't have been wearing that dress."
Also, I am quite amused by MetaFilter's ability to turn any thread into a "LOL USA" thread even when it has nothing to do with the U.S.
posted by oaf at 8:21 AM on May 26, 2007
This is dangerously close to saying "she shouldn't have been wearing that dress."
I disagree. I think the child abuse argument is kinda bullshitty myself -- whatever is happening here, it's definitely not child abuse -- but on the other hand, it's a teacher's responsibility to control his/her classroom. If, as some are saying, she didn't feel comfortable exerting her authority for fear she'd be fired, sued, etc., that's a problem with the system, and it needs to be corrected. If it was just a matter of her either being intimidated or not seeing a problem with the behavior, that would be on her, and that needs to be corrected, too -- by putting her in a different environment. Or maybe she just needs a taser. I dunno.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:36 AM on May 26, 2007
I disagree. I think the child abuse argument is kinda bullshitty myself -- whatever is happening here, it's definitely not child abuse -- but on the other hand, it's a teacher's responsibility to control his/her classroom. If, as some are saying, she didn't feel comfortable exerting her authority for fear she'd be fired, sued, etc., that's a problem with the system, and it needs to be corrected. If it was just a matter of her either being intimidated or not seeing a problem with the behavior, that would be on her, and that needs to be corrected, too -- by putting her in a different environment. Or maybe she just needs a taser. I dunno.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:36 AM on May 26, 2007
I dunno.
Exactly. You can't know from a dozen seconds of video, and that nickyskye presumes to reeks of arrogance.
posted by oaf at 8:49 AM on May 26, 2007
Exactly. You can't know from a dozen seconds of video, and that nickyskye presumes to reeks of arrogance.
posted by oaf at 8:49 AM on May 26, 2007
Obviously a culture that emboldens young men to fondle their female teacher like a prostitute is a culture where female teachers are second class and don't have the benefit of doubt.
posted by Brian B. at 8:52 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by Brian B. at 8:52 AM on May 26, 2007
my guess is that these were young teachers in their first teaching jobs, and it was important to them to show that they could control their classroom. If they were sending boys to the headmaster's office every five minutes, or allowing the class to be so disrupted by these occasional pieces of nonsense that they never got any teaching done, that would hugely undermine their mission.
i have actually experienced something very similar to this, way back when i was in my first year teaching. i was 22 years old, blonde, and exceedingly naive in a high school for "delinquents". (the proper term then was Behavior Disorder/BD.)
there were two boys in my class (age 15-16) who were constantly putting their arms around my shoulder, which led to attempting to put them around my waist, which led to trying to touch my ass. All the Time. did i stop them? oh sure. but it didn't deter them very much. and in a school where kids had been kicked out of their regular schools for things like throwing desks at teachers and bringing guns to school... let's just say i didn't feel like my complaints would be heard. i thought i just had to learn to deal with it the best i could. which i admit wasn't nearly as assertively and firmly as i should have.
in other words, while i became adept at catching their hands before they got to where they shouldn't and pushing them away, i was too confused by the whole thing to be obviously, clearly angry about it--i treated them more like they were stupid puppies. in retrospect, i should have marched them down to the office and there should have been firm consequences and a lecture about sexual inappropriateness.
an interesting point that most teachers probably never find out about their students: one of them was later incarcerated at the Statesville Penitentiary in Illinois for car theft. it also turned out his mother had been sexually abusing him for years.
posted by RedEmma at 8:59 AM on May 26, 2007 [2 favorites]
i have actually experienced something very similar to this, way back when i was in my first year teaching. i was 22 years old, blonde, and exceedingly naive in a high school for "delinquents". (the proper term then was Behavior Disorder/BD.)
there were two boys in my class (age 15-16) who were constantly putting their arms around my shoulder, which led to attempting to put them around my waist, which led to trying to touch my ass. All the Time. did i stop them? oh sure. but it didn't deter them very much. and in a school where kids had been kicked out of their regular schools for things like throwing desks at teachers and bringing guns to school... let's just say i didn't feel like my complaints would be heard. i thought i just had to learn to deal with it the best i could. which i admit wasn't nearly as assertively and firmly as i should have.
in other words, while i became adept at catching their hands before they got to where they shouldn't and pushing them away, i was too confused by the whole thing to be obviously, clearly angry about it--i treated them more like they were stupid puppies. in retrospect, i should have marched them down to the office and there should have been firm consequences and a lecture about sexual inappropriateness.
an interesting point that most teachers probably never find out about their students: one of them was later incarcerated at the Statesville Penitentiary in Illinois for car theft. it also turned out his mother had been sexually abusing him for years.
posted by RedEmma at 8:59 AM on May 26, 2007 [2 favorites]
What Brian B. just said and oaf. I can't believe anybody's blaming the teacher here.
When a woman walks down the street in broad daylight fully clothed is she begging for it? What if she's got nice brown hair? What if she's your wife or your sister?
And I thought I was sexist. What planet are you people from?
posted by davy at 9:05 AM on May 26, 2007
When a woman walks down the street in broad daylight fully clothed is she begging for it? What if she's got nice brown hair? What if she's your wife or your sister?
And I thought I was sexist. What planet are you people from?
posted by davy at 9:05 AM on May 26, 2007
Maybe they're just Hot for Teacher. I didn't see a mini-Van Halen in the classroom, though.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:07 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by kirkaracha at 9:07 AM on May 26, 2007
The only reason this hasn't been deleted is that it is a weekend holiday in the States.
posted by Muddler at 9:07 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by Muddler at 9:07 AM on May 26, 2007
A video forensics question (esp for those of you who were present for the news story in Italy):
What videophones have optical zooms or digital zooms with a smooth transition? At 1:13 in the first video we see what looks like a smooth zoom in.
With a digital zoom you'd expect some degradation of picture quality (depending on the native resolution, etc) or, typically, a fixed set of multipliers (1x, 2x, 4x, not smooth gradations).
At other points in the video the operator appears to move physically closer to the subject but the zoom happens again later at :55 and out again at :05.
I fully admit they could be using a surprisingly kickass cameraphone, but that looks a lot like the action of a video camera with an optical zoom or smooth digital zoom.
At the minimum, that should raise a question as to the wisdom of the videophone ban. At a maximum, it might raise a question as to the authenticity of the video (sorry to those of you claiming to have been there/seen it - I'm casting no aspersions, just putting the question into perspective).
posted by abulafa at 9:18 AM on May 26, 2007
What videophones have optical zooms or digital zooms with a smooth transition? At 1:13 in the first video we see what looks like a smooth zoom in.
With a digital zoom you'd expect some degradation of picture quality (depending on the native resolution, etc) or, typically, a fixed set of multipliers (1x, 2x, 4x, not smooth gradations).
At other points in the video the operator appears to move physically closer to the subject but the zoom happens again later at :55 and out again at :05.
I fully admit they could be using a surprisingly kickass cameraphone, but that looks a lot like the action of a video camera with an optical zoom or smooth digital zoom.
At the minimum, that should raise a question as to the wisdom of the videophone ban. At a maximum, it might raise a question as to the authenticity of the video (sorry to those of you claiming to have been there/seen it - I'm casting no aspersions, just putting the question into perspective).
posted by abulafa at 9:18 AM on May 26, 2007
Hm, then again, looks like there may be a few such cameraphones.
Well shut my mouth.
posted by abulafa at 9:23 AM on May 26, 2007
Well shut my mouth.
posted by abulafa at 9:23 AM on May 26, 2007
in my high school, you'd have gotten suspended for a week for doing this
in my dad's high school, you'd have been punched out ... by the nun you did it to
posted by pyramid termite at 9:29 AM on May 26, 2007
in my dad's high school, you'd have been punched out ... by the nun you did it to
posted by pyramid termite at 9:29 AM on May 26, 2007
My guess is that she probably just ignoring it because that sort of thing happens in Italy all the time
No. It. Doesn't.
For every tourist/traveller/whathave you that has had a random act of frottage or something along those lines, there are a thousand more who go along their merry way unmolested. And considering the daily number of tourists in my city alone, saying that thousand is 'lowballing' is a gross understatement.
And my personal experiences of frottage and ass-grabbery have by and by large happened at the hands of my fellow excommunitari and not the locals, who tend to be all talk and no bite.
I'm not saying there haven't been issues of machismo gone wild. But per usual, media sensationalism and stereotypes win out over the realities of day to day life.
Go figure.
posted by romakimmy at 9:36 AM on May 26, 2007
No. It. Doesn't.
For every tourist/traveller/whathave you that has had a random act of frottage or something along those lines, there are a thousand more who go along their merry way unmolested. And considering the daily number of tourists in my city alone, saying that thousand is 'lowballing' is a gross understatement.
And my personal experiences of frottage and ass-grabbery have by and by large happened at the hands of my fellow excommunitari and not the locals, who tend to be all talk and no bite.
I'm not saying there haven't been issues of machismo gone wild. But per usual, media sensationalism and stereotypes win out over the realities of day to day life.
Go figure.
posted by romakimmy at 9:36 AM on May 26, 2007
roamin' hands ... you have to go to moscow for rushin' fingers
posted by pyramid termite at 10:01 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by pyramid termite at 10:01 AM on May 26, 2007
sprezzatura. or marinara sauce. take your pick.
(as a half-Italian. I seem to have half of that special something, but the Irish half of see is too bombed to know what to do with it)
posted by jonmc at 10:01 AM on May 26, 2007
(as a half-Italian. I seem to have half of that special something, but the Irish half of see is too bombed to know what to do with it)
posted by jonmc at 10:01 AM on May 26, 2007
Ugh, some people here do seem to have some strange ideas about Italy and Italians. Sorry, romakimmy...
posted by Skeptic at 10:06 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by Skeptic at 10:06 AM on May 26, 2007
As much as my Northern European sentiments and general hatred for the Italian national football team (last year was not a good year for me) compel me to jump on the Italians-are-a-bunch-of-sexist-assholes bandwagon I think these dickweed students were not guilty of being Italian so much as guilty of being microheaded shitpods.
I've taught. I've lost control of a classroom and it's completely overwhelming. And that was 8 year-olds, not 15-17 year-olds. That the teacher got all the blame makes me furious. I wish I could cast some sort of Icelandic curse on these students to make their penises permanently shrivel.
[Note: I don't think that Italians are automatically shitpods, microheaded or otherwise, but that like with every other defined group of people, there are going to be a fair number of the douchedicked among them]
posted by Kattullus at 10:10 AM on May 26, 2007
I've taught. I've lost control of a classroom and it's completely overwhelming. And that was 8 year-olds, not 15-17 year-olds. That the teacher got all the blame makes me furious. I wish I could cast some sort of Icelandic curse on these students to make their penises permanently shrivel.
[Note: I don't think that Italians are automatically shitpods, microheaded or otherwise, but that like with every other defined group of people, there are going to be a fair number of the douchedicked among them]
posted by Kattullus at 10:10 AM on May 26, 2007
skeptic: A young, attractive female teacher, possibly a sub
According to this Italian article (assuming my Italian translation is correct), she is 40 years old.
It also appears from another Italian article that the videos are from a year ago. Those with better Italian skillz might be able to get more information from the articles.
posted by medium format at 10:13 AM on May 26, 2007
According to this Italian article (assuming my Italian translation is correct), she is 40 years old.
It also appears from another Italian article that the videos are from a year ago. Those with better Italian skillz might be able to get more information from the articles.
posted by medium format at 10:13 AM on May 26, 2007
Kattullus -- you just posted to test market some new profanity, didn't you... :)
posted by abulafa at 10:35 AM on May 26, 2007
posted by abulafa at 10:35 AM on May 26, 2007
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posted by Citizen Premier at 12:17 AM on May 26, 2007