A modest effort
August 5, 2007 10:31 PM Subscribe
The band Modest Mouse recently held a video contest for their song "Missed the Boat." The winner featured a walking robot. Passed over was an astounding piece of work using 4133 photocopies as animation cells.
what dull music! the animation was somewhat less dull.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:38 PM on August 5, 2007
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:38 PM on August 5, 2007
Wow, missed the boat indeed! I would've gone with the "photocopies" video, hands down. I thought it was a very good video, very nice sense of visual style. The robot one is cute and all, but ultimately tells too much of its own story, I think, which I never cared for in music vids: I prefer the ones that are more ambiguous, somehow, thereby drawing attention to the song and not to a separate visual narrative that just happens to be going on at the same time as the song. The robot one does get points, though, for having a cameo appearance by a can of Bustelo coffee. Took me right back to ol' New York.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:55 PM on August 5, 2007
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:55 PM on August 5, 2007
The photocopy thing has been done a lot in recent years; it's great but once you've seen it there's not much to it anymore, without a story or something. I was blown away by the technique first in an experimental film I saw about a guy photocopying himself - can't remember the name or much else about it now, but the technique and the story worked perfectly together. This version didn't really go anywhere; it just shows the band footage against different scenes over and over again with not much else going on.
Cutesy robot stuff wins every time, though. The photocopies didn't stand a chance.
posted by mediareport at 11:10 PM on August 5, 2007
Cutesy robot stuff wins every time, though. The photocopies didn't stand a chance.
posted by mediareport at 11:10 PM on August 5, 2007
Yay for bands doing video contests in general, though. Yay.
posted by mediareport at 11:13 PM on August 5, 2007
posted by mediareport at 11:13 PM on August 5, 2007
No, mediareport, you are WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
Except, OK, I kinda see what you're saying about it not really going anywhere... and I guess if I had an antenna hooked up to my TV, or sought out the latest music vids on YouTube then I'd know that the photocopies thing is, like, old stuff and all.
*goes back to listening to some old dead blues guy*
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:18 PM on August 5, 2007
Except, OK, I kinda see what you're saying about it not really going anywhere... and I guess if I had an antenna hooked up to my TV, or sought out the latest music vids on YouTube then I'd know that the photocopies thing is, like, old stuff and all.
*goes back to listening to some old dead blues guy*
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:18 PM on August 5, 2007
I would guess this is the video mediareport talks about, it is pretty cool - part 1, 2.
posted by scodger at 11:22 PM on August 5, 2007 [10 favorites]
posted by scodger at 11:22 PM on August 5, 2007 [10 favorites]
I didn't want to make my first comment a "this sucks" post but since other people are complaining about the photocopy thing, so will I.
The first major problem is just that "stop motion in the real world" stuff just isn't that new. It's done a lot, especially on youtube.
The second major problem is that they just didn't even really commit to it. Only half the video is done that way, and the rest was done with a projector, which is just not very impressive or interesting.
A lot of the scenes are very well framed, and like the first 30 seconds to a minute are pretty good, but it just goes nowhere. I thought the effect went well with the music, and if they'd stuck with it or maybe done something more interesting with it it could have been better.
posted by delmoi at 11:28 PM on August 5, 2007
The first major problem is just that "stop motion in the real world" stuff just isn't that new. It's done a lot, especially on youtube.
The second major problem is that they just didn't even really commit to it. Only half the video is done that way, and the rest was done with a projector, which is just not very impressive or interesting.
A lot of the scenes are very well framed, and like the first 30 seconds to a minute are pretty good, but it just goes nowhere. I thought the effect went well with the music, and if they'd stuck with it or maybe done something more interesting with it it could have been better.
posted by delmoi at 11:28 PM on August 5, 2007
I can make my girlfriend cry just by saying "WALL•E" like the robot does in the movie preview. I have a much harder time maker her cry by showing her photocopies of a band singing a boring song.
Moral: Robots will always win the war between robots and photocopies.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:33 PM on August 5, 2007 [2 favorites]
Moral: Robots will always win the war between robots and photocopies.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:33 PM on August 5, 2007 [2 favorites]
Oh, I love you forever, scodger. That's it, one of the most brilliantly obsessive and fascinating shorts I've ever seen. Just amazing on many levels - story, technique, style, music, everything. Thanks!
posted by mediareport at 11:34 PM on August 5, 2007
posted by mediareport at 11:34 PM on August 5, 2007
Yeah, scodger, that was superb. Thanks for the link!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:40 PM on August 5, 2007
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:40 PM on August 5, 2007
The robot video immediately reminded me of the Rocket Brothers video by the band Kashmir. Not that I'm griping. Taken in the context of being contest entries, I thought they were both excellent. I just really like the Rocket Brothers video.
posted by billyfleetwood at 11:41 PM on August 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by billyfleetwood at 11:41 PM on August 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
"...but since other people are complaining about the photocopy thing, so will I."
If you think something deserves complaining about, man, go ahead and do it! Waiting for others to validate your opinion is a bit weak, don'tcha think? I guess you didn't want to miss the boat, though...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:43 PM on August 5, 2007
If you think something deserves complaining about, man, go ahead and do it! Waiting for others to validate your opinion is a bit weak, don'tcha think? I guess you didn't want to miss the boat, though...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:43 PM on August 5, 2007
The robot thing was quite cute and well made, if I hadn't known beforehand I would have guessed either Jones or Gondry had done it.
posted by bobo123 at 11:44 PM on August 5, 2007
posted by bobo123 at 11:44 PM on August 5, 2007
Welcome. The DVD version I have of this has a prety good commentary by the director (as well as a heap of other great shorts).
posted by scodger at 11:56 PM on August 5, 2007
posted by scodger at 11:56 PM on August 5, 2007
For the record, I wasn't complaining, just noting that there's other great photocopied film stuff out there, and that I prefer it when the story and technique work together. And while we're at it, I like Modest Mouse, and this song.
Anyway, Virgil Widrich's Copy Shop was previously on Mefi, along with his Fast Film. Chel White's 1991 short Choreography for Copy Machine (Photocopy Cha Cha) is also fun, and maybe influential, I don't know. Anyone who likes the photocopied Modest Mouse video might like those, too.
posted by mediareport at 11:58 PM on August 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
Anyway, Virgil Widrich's Copy Shop was previously on Mefi, along with his Fast Film. Chel White's 1991 short Choreography for Copy Machine (Photocopy Cha Cha) is also fun, and maybe influential, I don't know. Anyone who likes the photocopied Modest Mouse video might like those, too.
posted by mediareport at 11:58 PM on August 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
The robot one is superior. The photocopying one is good, too, but but just because the technique is exacting and time-consuming, it doesn't make the end result better. The robot one is livelier, more imaginative, and has more personality.
Copy Shop is a hoot of a short, though.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:05 AM on August 6, 2007
Copy Shop is a hoot of a short, though.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:05 AM on August 6, 2007
Moral: Robots will always win the war between robots and photocopies.
When somebody comes up with robots made out of old photocopy machines, though: RUN!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:20 AM on August 6, 2007
When somebody comes up with robots made out of old photocopy machines, though: RUN!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:20 AM on August 6, 2007
What a great way to get an entire music video done for just under $3500: make naive fans and students work for free. Ooh, the winner gets a mid-range video camera and a computer worse than the one they're cutting the video on. Amazing. And what do the losers get? Hm, nothing. That sounds fair.
I wonder if Modest Mouse would do a gig - for free! - with 999 other bands, if the "best band" got $2,000. Fuck them and fuck that.
http://www.no-spec.com/
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:20 AM on August 6, 2007 [2 favorites]
I wonder if Modest Mouse would do a gig - for free! - with 999 other bands, if the "best band" got $2,000. Fuck them and fuck that.
http://www.no-spec.com/
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:20 AM on August 6, 2007 [2 favorites]
Oh, and I'm sure that they have no problem with this now.
http://thepiratebay.org/search/modest%20mouse/0/3/0
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:21 AM on August 6, 2007
http://thepiratebay.org/search/modest%20mouse/0/3/0
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:21 AM on August 6, 2007
What a great way to get an entire music video done for just under $3500: make naive fans and students work for free.
Pretty much standard industry practice down under, as far as I understand it. Not so much the fan competition (although that approach seems to be increasing) but I heard that most music videos are done for free by aspiring students from the film, television & radio schools, as a way of getting their feet in the door of the industry. Get a few videos for reasonably famous Aussie bands under your belt & move overseas to where the industry actually pays for work. Either that, or move into advertising.
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:35 AM on August 6, 2007
Pretty much standard industry practice down under, as far as I understand it. Not so much the fan competition (although that approach seems to be increasing) but I heard that most music videos are done for free by aspiring students from the film, television & radio schools, as a way of getting their feet in the door of the industry. Get a few videos for reasonably famous Aussie bands under your belt & move overseas to where the industry actually pays for work. Either that, or move into advertising.
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:35 AM on August 6, 2007
Optimus_Chyme, I can see where your sentiment is coming from, but also, I gotta say, welcome to the real world. Young artists (and hell, nt-so-young as well) in all genres, whether it's video, music, visual arts, whatever, if they don't have some sort of inside connection (say, daddy owns a gallery) do work for free, or lose money doing their work. And often for people that are better off than them. That's just the way it is, for everybody. outside the very lucky few with a trust fund or whatever. They're not exactly naive, they're just doing what they can to get their work out there.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 12:41 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by flapjax at midnite at 12:41 AM on August 6, 2007
And I'd also wager that Modest Mouse have done plenty of gigs for free. Plenty. Do they have to do it anymore? I reckon not. So what?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 12:44 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by flapjax at midnite at 12:44 AM on August 6, 2007
If fans want to make a video for free, more power to them. It has a lot to do with the fact that they're, ya know, fans.
Nobody lied to them. And the folks who did the two videos posted in this FPP are getting a lot more exposure than they would have otherwise (like UbuRoivas is pointing out).
That said, meh. I used to love me some Modest Mouse, but we've gone our separate ways a bit. Talented group, no doubt. I didn't think either video was all that great, but still a cool idea.
posted by bardic at 12:46 AM on August 6, 2007
Nobody lied to them. And the folks who did the two videos posted in this FPP are getting a lot more exposure than they would have otherwise (like UbuRoivas is pointing out).
That said, meh. I used to love me some Modest Mouse, but we've gone our separate ways a bit. Talented group, no doubt. I didn't think either video was all that great, but still a cool idea.
posted by bardic at 12:46 AM on August 6, 2007
Hm, OC. You're free to enter the contest or not; I suspect back when I was in college and especially if I was enthralled with a particular band, I would think about entering. With several like-minded friends it would probably be quite fun.
I'm not sure a band's motivation would necessarily be strictly financial. The losers do get the experience of making their video, and probably learning some new skills.
I seriously doubt industry professionals are entering these contests.
These were nice efforts. I liked the visual stylings and framings of the photocopy video over the robot video. I did think the projector stuff hurt the video, it's like they couldn't fully commit one way or the other.
This result is perhaps the best from any contest I've seen. You'd have to have been under a rock for awhile to have never seen it.
posted by maxwelton at 12:50 AM on August 6, 2007
I'm not sure a band's motivation would necessarily be strictly financial. The losers do get the experience of making their video, and probably learning some new skills.
I seriously doubt industry professionals are entering these contests.
These were nice efforts. I liked the visual stylings and framings of the photocopy video over the robot video. I did think the projector stuff hurt the video, it's like they couldn't fully commit one way or the other.
This result is perhaps the best from any contest I've seen. You'd have to have been under a rock for awhile to have never seen it.
posted by maxwelton at 12:50 AM on August 6, 2007
Your favorite band used to be good, but now sucks.
Modest Mouse started sucking with "Good News for People Who Love Bad News," which contains the song "The Good Times Are Killing Me" about how maybe they shouldn't take so many drugs. This proves the point that maybe bands should keep taking drugs.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 12:59 AM on August 6, 2007 [2 favorites]
Modest Mouse started sucking with "Good News for People Who Love Bad News," which contains the song "The Good Times Are Killing Me" about how maybe they shouldn't take so many drugs. This proves the point that maybe bands should keep taking drugs.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 12:59 AM on August 6, 2007 [2 favorites]
I hate doing spec work (hate!), especially as I am doing some now due to a change of editor at the august organ I "work" for, (why can't I put that fucker on spec? I have been in this job for 5 years!), but it's pretty much how things go in certain positions.
Note also that student filmmakers will have access to cheap/free camera and editing facilities, which mitigates it a little.
posted by Wolof at 1:08 AM on August 6, 2007
Note also that student filmmakers will have access to cheap/free camera and editing facilities, which mitigates it a little.
posted by Wolof at 1:08 AM on August 6, 2007
"What a great way to get an entire music video done for just under $3500:"
Hey, don't forget all the money they had to pay someone to produce all that FANCY legalese.
posted by effbot at 1:55 AM on August 6, 2007
Hey, don't forget all the money they had to pay someone to produce all that FANCY legalese.
posted by effbot at 1:55 AM on August 6, 2007
The video where they sack the lead singer and replace him with morrissey is better.
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:14 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:14 AM on August 6, 2007
Lest we forget, the photocopier-as-animation thing was also done (albeit briefly) by our old friends, Messrs Pip and Le Sac.
posted by flashboy at 4:32 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by flashboy at 4:32 AM on August 6, 2007
I just want to say that this is the first time I'd heard this song, and I said to myself, "Hey, it sounds like they got James Mercer to sing on the chorus." And it turns out they did. That's all.
posted by ludwig_van at 4:35 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by ludwig_van at 4:35 AM on August 6, 2007
Have you never been to a show where the band is not getting paid a cent, and is struggling just to come up with enough cash for gas money, so they can get to the next stop of their tour?
Hey, I've been to shows like that. And by been to, I mean played. And by played, I mean played way too many.
posted by ludwig_van at 4:36 AM on August 6, 2007
Hey, I've been to shows like that. And by been to, I mean played. And by played, I mean played way too many.
posted by ludwig_van at 4:36 AM on August 6, 2007
The video where they sack the lead singer and replace him with morrissey is better.
Is that for real? I thought I heard that Johnny Marr had joined Modest Mouse, so that would be an interesting development...
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:38 AM on August 6, 2007
Is that for real? I thought I heard that Johnny Marr had joined Modest Mouse, so that would be an interesting development...
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:38 AM on August 6, 2007
Optimus, I hope you are posting using a windows box.
posted by srboisvert at 5:08 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by srboisvert at 5:08 AM on August 6, 2007
That photocopy vid was boring as hell. Any video that makes me think the band has gone to shit isn't doing it's job. The Robot video was much better in that it distracted me from the song long enough to watch the whole vid. This is one of the purposes of music videos, especially when they're for shitty songs.
Also, no one will ever match Chel White's use of photocopies in Photocopy Cha Cha. excerpt here
posted by dobbs at 6:47 AM on August 6, 2007
Also, no one will ever match Chel White's use of photocopies in Photocopy Cha Cha. excerpt here
posted by dobbs at 6:47 AM on August 6, 2007
Optimus, I hope you are posting using a windows box.
posted by srboisvert at 5:08 AM on August 6
People do things for free all the time. The phrase pro bono is a shortened version of pro bono publico, "for the public good."
Some programmers and software dudes think that free, open source software improves the world, and they do it for free, and I admire the hell out of it and agree with them and their mission. Some graphic designers and illustrators and artists think that certain organizations are a force for good and are happy to donate their time to certain non-profits and charities and such. I happen to be one of them.
But to ask people to work for free when everyone else is making money - the band, the label, the guy who caters the release party - is nothing more than exploitation, and it's frankly shameful. Students can become professionals without having to give away their time and talent to help other people make a living.
Designers and artists are professionals who have spent years learning their craft. You don't ask ten doctors or lawyers or architects or chefs to work for free on the promise that "maybe you'll throw the 'best' one a couple bucks" later, and it's unethical and shitty to do it to someone in the creative field.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:12 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by srboisvert at 5:08 AM on August 6
People do things for free all the time. The phrase pro bono is a shortened version of pro bono publico, "for the public good."
Some programmers and software dudes think that free, open source software improves the world, and they do it for free, and I admire the hell out of it and agree with them and their mission. Some graphic designers and illustrators and artists think that certain organizations are a force for good and are happy to donate their time to certain non-profits and charities and such. I happen to be one of them.
But to ask people to work for free when everyone else is making money - the band, the label, the guy who caters the release party - is nothing more than exploitation, and it's frankly shameful. Students can become professionals without having to give away their time and talent to help other people make a living.
Designers and artists are professionals who have spent years learning their craft. You don't ask ten doctors or lawyers or architects or chefs to work for free on the promise that "maybe you'll throw the 'best' one a couple bucks" later, and it's unethical and shitty to do it to someone in the creative field.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:12 AM on August 6, 2007
I find the new MM album to be highly enjoyable, and this song is a standout, featuring fantastic backing vocals by James Mercer (of The Shins).
*goes back to listening to some old dead blues guy*
Seriously, this made me laugh on many levels. I love old blues as much as the next music geek, but this is just ham fisted.
posted by Quartermass at 7:25 AM on August 6, 2007
*goes back to listening to some old dead blues guy*
Seriously, this made me laugh on many levels. I love old blues as much as the next music geek, but this is just ham fisted.
posted by Quartermass at 7:25 AM on August 6, 2007
I'm with optimus. Here's a video I did for the Decemberists contest several months ago.
The green screen contest was a cute idea once upon a time. Now it's becoming the standard. Everyone wants to be Gondry, but since videos play almost nowhere besides the internet anymore, no one wants to pay for them.
posted by fungible at 7:39 AM on August 6, 2007 [2 favorites]
The green screen contest was a cute idea once upon a time. Now it's becoming the standard. Everyone wants to be Gondry, but since videos play almost nowhere besides the internet anymore, no one wants to pay for them.
posted by fungible at 7:39 AM on August 6, 2007 [2 favorites]
(although to the Decemberists' credit, they did eventually make a real video for that song. But I'm sure all the amateurs who spent tons of time and money on their videos really appreciated it, though.)
posted by fungible at 7:43 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by fungible at 7:43 AM on August 6, 2007
I'm with optimus. Here's a video I did for the Decemberists contest several months ago.
Those two things seem to be opposed. Or are you now disillusioned about your favorite band?
posted by yerfatma at 7:47 AM on August 6, 2007
Those two things seem to be opposed. Or are you now disillusioned about your favorite band?
posted by yerfatma at 7:47 AM on August 6, 2007
I was disappointed when I heard that MM was releasing "Missed the Boat" as a single from their new album - IMO it's probably the weakest track on the whole record, and one that often gets the FF treatment from me when it comes on. I want them to start promoting "Parting of the Sensory" -- but I feel it's never gonna happen, for semi-obvious reasons.
posted by ripple at 7:48 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by ripple at 7:48 AM on August 6, 2007
just remove all this guys vocals - put in morrissey and we have meat is murder 2.0.
posted by sgt.serenity at 8:05 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by sgt.serenity at 8:05 AM on August 6, 2007
yerfatma: It helps if you actually watch the video. It took me about 30 mins. to make.
posted by fungible at 8:09 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by fungible at 8:09 AM on August 6, 2007
That's some nice work, fungible.
I would posit that these contests were intended to be a cute, sort of populist attempt at keeping things "indie." Probably no one thought through the consequences at the time. In a few months, we're going to see Bon Jovi try this.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 8:35 AM on August 6, 2007
I would posit that these contests were intended to be a cute, sort of populist attempt at keeping things "indie." Probably no one thought through the consequences at the time. In a few months, we're going to see Bon Jovi try this.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 8:35 AM on August 6, 2007
yerfatma: It helps if you actually watch the video. It took me about 30 mins. to make.
Youtube is blocked at work. My problem here is you've used Optimus' comment about what a bad idea free fan-created videos are as a springboard to post a link to your fan-created video. I didn't get the point and unless the video is an amazingly prescient ripoff of the Dylan/INXS flipcard thing wherein you explain why the video made months prior is germane to a discussion today of what a bad idea the video is, I'm still lost.
posted by yerfatma at 9:09 AM on August 6, 2007
Youtube is blocked at work. My problem here is you've used Optimus' comment about what a bad idea free fan-created videos are as a springboard to post a link to your fan-created video. I didn't get the point and unless the video is an amazingly prescient ripoff of the Dylan/INXS flipcard thing wherein you explain why the video made months prior is germane to a discussion today of what a bad idea the video is, I'm still lost.
posted by yerfatma at 9:09 AM on August 6, 2007
It's footage of the band, yerfatma, with things like "gay," "lame," "fuck you" and "too cheap to hire real graphics people" thrown up in block letters behind them. A scathing indictment of the practice, rest assured.
posted by mediareport at 9:14 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by mediareport at 9:14 AM on August 6, 2007
I liked it. (fungible's mocking video, that is.) Everything is made better with Admiral Ackbar.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:04 AM on August 6, 2007
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:04 AM on August 6, 2007
How will any of these things keep unknown artists from trying to make a name for themselves? What, are they gonna get blackballed by the all-powerful "NO!SPEC" faction if they enter a contest in an attempt to showcase their art?
The idea is that by raising awareness, the practice of asking people to do work for free will become less common.
Personally though, for industries where huge amounts of money are spent and large pools of potential talent are available, it's hard to see any real change happening. Further, if a fan wants to spend their time and money making a movie a band they like, I really don't see what the problem with it is. I'm sure we've all contributed to things that eventually make money for someone else, because we see some value in it. (Might this very site be an example? I honestly don't know the answer to this question.)
posted by !Jim at 12:11 PM on August 6, 2007
The idea is that by raising awareness, the practice of asking people to do work for free will become less common.
Personally though, for industries where huge amounts of money are spent and large pools of potential talent are available, it's hard to see any real change happening. Further, if a fan wants to spend their time and money making a movie a band they like, I really don't see what the problem with it is. I'm sure we've all contributed to things that eventually make money for someone else, because we see some value in it. (Might this very site be an example? I honestly don't know the answer to this question.)
posted by !Jim at 12:11 PM on August 6, 2007
Optimus, I'm having a really hard time figuring out how it's unethical or exploitative to ask people to make something for you, if they feel like it, with no negative consequences for those folks if they decide not to.
The ROI is ridiculously low, for one, and young impressionable artists always hear "oh, this will be great exposure, you'll get so many clients," and that simply never happens. But there's a large pool of kids just out of school who think, "oh, if I don't do a free flyer design for Pimps N Hoes Night at Club Shithead, my independent little studio will never get that lucrative magazine gig." And while this contest is marginally less exploitative than other unpaid gigs, in that the band is making an effort to help the artists with materials and such, it spreads the idea that the skills needed to produce art like this are cheap or common.
And they're not. Any idiot with After Effects can throw together a music video. But only the talented and hardworking can do it well.
How will any of these things keep unknown artists from trying to make a name for themselves?
No one's trying to keep unknown artists from making a name for themselves. They're trying to keep unknown artists from being taken advantage of. This isn't like donating your car to United Way. Creative professionals cannot claim their donated time on their tax returns, so when you convince some kid fresh out of school to use his time, materials, and talent to rebrand your dumbfuck lampshade store or whatever, you are nothing more than a cheap con man. Congratulations.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:46 PM on August 6, 2007
The ROI is ridiculously low, for one, and young impressionable artists always hear "oh, this will be great exposure, you'll get so many clients," and that simply never happens. But there's a large pool of kids just out of school who think, "oh, if I don't do a free flyer design for Pimps N Hoes Night at Club Shithead, my independent little studio will never get that lucrative magazine gig." And while this contest is marginally less exploitative than other unpaid gigs, in that the band is making an effort to help the artists with materials and such, it spreads the idea that the skills needed to produce art like this are cheap or common.
And they're not. Any idiot with After Effects can throw together a music video. But only the talented and hardworking can do it well.
How will any of these things keep unknown artists from trying to make a name for themselves?
No one's trying to keep unknown artists from making a name for themselves. They're trying to keep unknown artists from being taken advantage of. This isn't like donating your car to United Way. Creative professionals cannot claim their donated time on their tax returns, so when you convince some kid fresh out of school to use his time, materials, and talent to rebrand your dumbfuck lampshade store or whatever, you are nothing more than a cheap con man. Congratulations.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:46 PM on August 6, 2007
(although to the Decemberists' credit, they did eventually make a real video for that song.)
Which, since you brought it up, I have to opine was terrible and completely self-indulgent, even considering who we're talking about (although maybe there were 2 versions of that video, one being longer?). But of course all of the 15-year-old drama club Decemberists fans absolutely lapped it up. Chris Funk seems like a decent guy, but just because he can raise one eyebrow doesn't mean he's interesting to watch.
I would posit that these contests were intended to be a cute, sort of populist attempt at keeping things "indie."
Which is perhaps a bit ironic, as both Modest Mouse and The Decemberists are on major labels.
posted by ludwig_van at 1:51 PM on August 6, 2007
Which, since you brought it up, I have to opine was terrible and completely self-indulgent, even considering who we're talking about (although maybe there were 2 versions of that video, one being longer?). But of course all of the 15-year-old drama club Decemberists fans absolutely lapped it up. Chris Funk seems like a decent guy, but just because he can raise one eyebrow doesn't mean he's interesting to watch.
I would posit that these contests were intended to be a cute, sort of populist attempt at keeping things "indie."
Which is perhaps a bit ironic, as both Modest Mouse and The Decemberists are on major labels.
posted by ludwig_van at 1:51 PM on August 6, 2007
Students can become professionals without having to give away their time and talent to help other people make a living.
Anyone who's ever had an internship disagrees with you.
posted by bardic at 2:54 PM on August 6, 2007
Anyone who's ever had an internship disagrees with you.
posted by bardic at 2:54 PM on August 6, 2007
RIP my unadulterated love of Modest Mouse. I guess the American Idol 'Float On' disaster was the turning point. Oh, god. That was actually the turning point of my faith in mankind. Click the link if you're brave.
posted by tmcw at 3:04 PM on August 6, 2007
posted by tmcw at 3:04 PM on August 6, 2007
Anyone who's ever had an internship disagrees with you.
posted by bardic at 2:54 PM on August 6
Don't be ridiculous, bardic. At least with an unpaid internship you're ostensibly under the tutelage of an established whatever-it-is-you're-interning-to-do. Spec work and contests leave you to your own devices, alone, and teach you nothing.
Of course, most unpaid internships are also bullshit in terms of what you learn - it's just fetching bagels and networking. But let's leave that for another thread.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 3:31 PM on August 6, 2007
posted by bardic at 2:54 PM on August 6
Don't be ridiculous, bardic. At least with an unpaid internship you're ostensibly under the tutelage of an established whatever-it-is-you're-interning-to-do. Spec work and contests leave you to your own devices, alone, and teach you nothing.
Of course, most unpaid internships are also bullshit in terms of what you learn - it's just fetching bagels and networking. But let's leave that for another thread.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 3:31 PM on August 6, 2007
And you're still missing the point -- this was a somewhat interesting, but also somewhat tired gag. If the makers of these two videos give interviews to 60 Minutes to make hard-hitting exposes entitled "Modest Mouse Touched Me in My Bathing Suit Area" then you'd have a point.
Learn to pick your fights.
(And yes, internships are generally bullshit. And yet, everyone in college and a few years out seems to want them, desperately. Because much of life is bullshit.)
posted by bardic at 3:48 PM on August 6, 2007
Learn to pick your fights.
(And yes, internships are generally bullshit. And yet, everyone in college and a few years out seems to want them, desperately. Because much of life is bullshit.)
posted by bardic at 3:48 PM on August 6, 2007
fungible, I'm forever your girl, sincerely. Your video warmed cockels I didn't even know I had.
Fan art is good, even when it's not. I love when someone is so heated up over a song that they record themselves lipsynching it into a brush for a microphone or they make some little animation for it, clumsy or not. It's damn nice. Now that fairly successful bands have turned the whole thing into a contest and yet another promotion vehicle it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I've never been a purist type poised to scream sellout at a band I like because they sold some song to VW -- quite the opposite, actually -- but goddamn, why can't bands fortunate enough to have a body of passionate fans leave them the hell alone? It's the difference between getting a surprise bouquet from your sweetie and then expecting one daily as your due. Fan art's a romantic gesture. Start making fans compete with each other to produce the grandest one and it feels cheap and a bit desperate.
posted by melissa may at 3:51 PM on August 6, 2007
Fan art is good, even when it's not. I love when someone is so heated up over a song that they record themselves lipsynching it into a brush for a microphone or they make some little animation for it, clumsy or not. It's damn nice. Now that fairly successful bands have turned the whole thing into a contest and yet another promotion vehicle it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I've never been a purist type poised to scream sellout at a band I like because they sold some song to VW -- quite the opposite, actually -- but goddamn, why can't bands fortunate enough to have a body of passionate fans leave them the hell alone? It's the difference between getting a surprise bouquet from your sweetie and then expecting one daily as your due. Fan art's a romantic gesture. Start making fans compete with each other to produce the grandest one and it feels cheap and a bit desperate.
posted by melissa may at 3:51 PM on August 6, 2007
That's beautifully put, melissa may, and kinda convincing. I still generally think of these contests as a great way for artists to use their position to open up new opportunities for fans to get their art known (yay, democratization), but the way you put your objection makes sense in a way Optimus' didn't. Thanks.
posted by mediareport at 6:36 PM on August 6, 2007
posted by mediareport at 6:36 PM on August 6, 2007
I liked this band better when they were called "Treepeople".
Oh wait, that's Built To Spill.
Either way, Your Favorite Band Sucks.
posted by intermod at 7:21 PM on August 6, 2007
Oh wait, that's Built To Spill.
Either way, Your Favorite Band Sucks.
posted by intermod at 7:21 PM on August 6, 2007
Late to respond, but thanks to melissa and others for the compliments.
I'm not opposed to someone doing a spec video if they want to. Here's one I did just cuz I liked the song so much. (uncensored version, NSFW)
Now, I'm watching this Bjork contest winner. It makes me crazy. Someone must have had 5 or 6 people working on it for at least a month or two. FOR FREE! All so that MAYBE it could get featured on Myspace (shitty video, shitty sound, Rupert Murdoch)? What the fuck are these people thinking?
posted by fungible at 9:40 PM on August 7, 2007
I'm not opposed to someone doing a spec video if they want to. Here's one I did just cuz I liked the song so much. (uncensored version, NSFW)
Now, I'm watching this Bjork contest winner. It makes me crazy. Someone must have had 5 or 6 people working on it for at least a month or two. FOR FREE! All so that MAYBE it could get featured on Myspace (shitty video, shitty sound, Rupert Murdoch)? What the fuck are these people thinking?
posted by fungible at 9:40 PM on August 7, 2007
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posted by delmoi at 10:34 PM on August 5, 2007