Lou Reed on Lou Reed's 'Metal Machine Music' performed by Zeitkratzer and himself live in 2002
November 17, 2007 10:53 AM Subscribe
Even if Lou Reed had dropped out of music after the break-up of the Velvet Underground, his name would still be forever etched in the history of rock music. Yet his solo career, filled with eccentric detours and radio-ready rockers in equal measure, remains one of the most fascinating canons in all of rock music. Metal Machine Music, however, is a unique entity in itself, proudly pushing at the very boundaries of what pop music is capable of. Zeitkratzer’s performance not only makes the original album ripe for critical re-evaluation, but it’s a performance that stands on its own ground...Why Does the Music Have to End?: An Interview with Lou Reed regarding how he came to play Metal Machine Music live in 2002.
Metal Machine Music is my favorite Lou Reed album. No sarcasm, no jokes, no fooling. I really have to be in the mood to put it on, but it's such an insanely powerful work, words cannot define it.
Took me a while to appreciate it, and I really gotta hear this live version. Thanks!
posted by SansPoint at 11:03 AM on November 17, 2007
Took me a while to appreciate it, and I really gotta hear this live version. Thanks!
posted by SansPoint at 11:03 AM on November 17, 2007
I'm not very much into pop music anymore, and never really was. But I did instantly recognize the name of Lou Reed, because he was the singing voice of Mok in the animated movie "Rock and Rule".
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 11:13 AM on November 17, 2007
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 11:13 AM on November 17, 2007
I really gotta hear this live version
It's pretty great, so check it out. Although, I don't really get the ooohs and the aaahs over the original "Metal Machine Music". The one thing that makes it stand out is the fact that a really rather famous musician made it, but better "mechanical screeches and drones" ((C) 8-Track Hall Of Fame) predated it.
posted by soundofsuburbia at 11:16 AM on November 17, 2007
It's pretty great, so check it out. Although, I don't really get the ooohs and the aaahs over the original "Metal Machine Music". The one thing that makes it stand out is the fact that a really rather famous musician made it, but better "mechanical screeches and drones" ((C) 8-Track Hall Of Fame) predated it.
posted by soundofsuburbia at 11:16 AM on November 17, 2007
I haven't listened to Metal Machine Music in a long, long time, but the way I remember it was extremely uneven, IIRC I thought that parts 1 and 4 were great but 2 and 3 were kinda meh.
That said, I formed these opinions as a callow youth so they're probably objectively wrong.
posted by Kattullus at 11:20 AM on November 17, 2007
That said, I formed these opinions as a callow youth so they're probably objectively wrong.
posted by Kattullus at 11:20 AM on November 17, 2007
Thanks y2karl.
posted by From Bklyn at 11:47 AM on November 17, 2007
posted by From Bklyn at 11:47 AM on November 17, 2007
It has been suggested that in my annual regress report to the stockholders, published here last month, I neglected in all five thousand words to ever once mention why Metal Machine Music is a good album. So here, especially in light of Coney Island Baby, are the reasons:The Greatest Album Ever Made
If you ever thought feedback was the best thing that ever happened to the guitar, well, Lou just got rid of the guitars.
I realize that any idiot with the equipment could have made this album, including me, you or Lou. That's one of the main reasons I like it so much. As with the Godz and Tangerine Dream, not only does it bring you closer to the artist, but someday, god willing, I may get to do my own Metal Machine Music. It's all folk music, anyway.
When you wake up in the morning with the worst hangover of your life, Metal Machine Music is the best medicine. Because when you first arise you're probably so fucked (i.e., still drunk) that is doesn't even really hurt yet (not like it's going to), so you should put this album on immediately, not only to clear all the crap out of your head, but to prepare you for what's in store the rest of the day.
Speaking of clearing out crap, I once had this friend who would say, "I take acid at least every two months & JUST BLOW ALL THE BAD SHIT OUTA MY BRAIN!" So I say the same thing about MMM. Except I take it about once a day, like vitamins.
In his excellent liner notes, Lou asserts that he and the other speedfreaks did not start World Wars I, II, "or the Bay of Pigs, for that matter." And he's right. If everybody took amphetamines, all the time, everybody would understand each other. Either that or never listen or bother with the other son of a bitch, because they'd all be too busy spending three days drawing psychedelic lines around a piece of steno paper until it's totally black, writing eighty-page letters about meaningless occurrences to their mothers, or creating MMM. There would be no more wars, and peace and harmony would reign. Just imagine Gerald Ford on speed- he might manifest some glimmer of personality. Or Ronald Reagan- a blood vessel in his snapping-turtle lips would immediately burst, perhaps ridding us of that cocksucker. As is well known by now, JFK enjoyed regular injections of Meth and vitamins from happy croakers. 'Nuff said. Hey may not have actually accomplished anything (except the Bay of Pigs- wait a minute, Lou hasn't been doing his homework), but he had style and a winning smile...
by Lester Bangs
posted by y2karl at 11:56 AM on November 17, 2007 [2 favorites]
Lou Reed finds a novel way to lip-sync "No Money Down." The first time I saw this on MTV, I was horrified yet laughing like hell.
posted by pax digita at 12:12 PM on November 17, 2007
posted by pax digita at 12:12 PM on November 17, 2007
In his excellent liner notes, Lou asserts that he and the other speedfreaks did not start World Wars I, II, "or the Bay of Pigs, for that matter."
Au contraire
posted by empath at 12:34 PM on November 17, 2007
Au contraire
posted by empath at 12:34 PM on November 17, 2007
...wait a minute, Lester hadn't been doing his homework.
posted by y2karl at 12:41 PM on November 17, 2007
posted by y2karl at 12:41 PM on November 17, 2007
y2karl -- I always thought of "Metal Machine Music" as Lou Reed's "Self Portrait" (the Dylan album), a gesture of disgust at his own popularity, and an effort to blow an audience he felt like he didn't deserve, or at the very least, liked him for all the wrong reasons. I remember thinking at the time, "Well, that's it for old Lou Reed. He's out of the game." And I was right.
posted by Faze at 3:21 PM on November 17, 2007
posted by Faze at 3:21 PM on November 17, 2007
(Oh yeah, and speaking of war criminals on drugs, here's a first hand account of Nixon and the elder Bush's halcion use.)
posted by Faze at 3:26 PM on November 17, 2007
posted by Faze at 3:26 PM on November 17, 2007
Can any find a link to the Zeitkratzer album that has a sample I can listen to?
posted by about_time at 4:15 PM on November 17, 2007
posted by about_time at 4:15 PM on November 17, 2007
Bah, had it not been for John Cale we would not now be discussing the terribly bad photographer that is Lou Reed.
posted by DenOfSizer at 4:41 PM on November 17, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by DenOfSizer at 4:41 PM on November 17, 2007 [2 favorites]
Wow, PeterMcDermott, the Persuasions were actually "booed off by the audience"? Really? Damn, that's shocking.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:45 PM on November 17, 2007
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:45 PM on November 17, 2007
Also, what DenOfSizer said.
Except for the bass line to Wild Side, which is brilliant. Exquisite use of three notes. Wonder if it was even Lou, though, who wrote that.
Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo
Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo
Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo
Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo)
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:00 PM on November 17, 2007
Except for the bass line to Wild Side, which is brilliant. Exquisite use of three notes. Wonder if it was even Lou, though, who wrote that.
Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo
Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo
Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo
Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo)
(doo)
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:00 PM on November 17, 2007
And he is married to Laurie Anderson careful that link is sound
posted by hortense at 5:25 PM on November 17, 2007
posted by hortense at 5:25 PM on November 17, 2007
Bah, had it not been for John Cale we would not now be discussing the terribly bad photographer that is Lou Reed.
John Cale wrote Some Kind of Love, Sweet Jane, Street Hassle and Pale Blue Eyes, to name but a few ?
posted by y2karl at 5:32 PM on November 17, 2007
John Cale wrote Some Kind of Love, Sweet Jane, Street Hassle and Pale Blue Eyes, to name but a few ?
posted by y2karl at 5:32 PM on November 17, 2007
Wow, PeterMcDermott, the Persuasions were actually "booed off by the audience"? Really? Damn, that's shocking.
Second or third song in, the booing was so bad that after several threats to leave the stage, they actually walked off.
To make it even more shocking, they'd actually done a voluntary gig in the city, at a community centre, teaching local kids to sing acapella. But the moronic Lou Reed fan hippies either knew or cared nothing about that.
It shames me to this day that people in my city could behave in such a way, but it was a kind of tribal clash. The Lou fans were largely peace and love hippies, who looked down on the audience for black music -- at that time, primarily mods/skinheads. So in some sense it was as much about tribal identity as it was about the Persuasions performance. But this was an audience so dumb that they couldn't suspend their hate long enough to actually listen to what the Persuasions were doing. I remember they opened with Tempts Jam -- a medley of Can't Get Next To You/Runaway Child, Running Wild/Aint Too Proud To Beg and it was quite the best thing I'd ever heard in my life. I was so angry, tears of frustration were flowing uncontrollably, and if I hadn't been with a girl, I would have been punching hippies at random.
To Lou's credit, he sent one of his people out to tell the audience that if they didn't mind their shit, he wasn't going to perform, and that shut them up, but they suffered in grudging silence for the rest of the set.
Weirdly, the previous time I saw Lou, the New York Dolls were booked to support him, and Lou refused to perform if they allowed the Dolls on stage. They ended up playing a cassette tape of a Dolls set through a £10 portable cassette player sitting on a stool, with the PA mike pointed at it. That night though, Lou was great. One of the most memorable sets I've seen in my life. It was just after Transformer, so he ran through his back catalogue and it was just as you'd expect it to be.
That Metal Machine Music/Rock and Roll Heart gig though, was so bad I couldn't even finish the set and had to leave half way through. If that audience had had any clue at all, it would have been Lou getting booed off, not The Persuasions.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 6:29 PM on November 17, 2007
Second or third song in, the booing was so bad that after several threats to leave the stage, they actually walked off.
To make it even more shocking, they'd actually done a voluntary gig in the city, at a community centre, teaching local kids to sing acapella. But the moronic Lou Reed fan hippies either knew or cared nothing about that.
It shames me to this day that people in my city could behave in such a way, but it was a kind of tribal clash. The Lou fans were largely peace and love hippies, who looked down on the audience for black music -- at that time, primarily mods/skinheads. So in some sense it was as much about tribal identity as it was about the Persuasions performance. But this was an audience so dumb that they couldn't suspend their hate long enough to actually listen to what the Persuasions were doing. I remember they opened with Tempts Jam -- a medley of Can't Get Next To You/Runaway Child, Running Wild/Aint Too Proud To Beg and it was quite the best thing I'd ever heard in my life. I was so angry, tears of frustration were flowing uncontrollably, and if I hadn't been with a girl, I would have been punching hippies at random.
To Lou's credit, he sent one of his people out to tell the audience that if they didn't mind their shit, he wasn't going to perform, and that shut them up, but they suffered in grudging silence for the rest of the set.
Weirdly, the previous time I saw Lou, the New York Dolls were booked to support him, and Lou refused to perform if they allowed the Dolls on stage. They ended up playing a cassette tape of a Dolls set through a £10 portable cassette player sitting on a stool, with the PA mike pointed at it. That night though, Lou was great. One of the most memorable sets I've seen in my life. It was just after Transformer, so he ran through his back catalogue and it was just as you'd expect it to be.
That Metal Machine Music/Rock and Roll Heart gig though, was so bad I couldn't even finish the set and had to leave half way through. If that audience had had any clue at all, it would have been Lou getting booed off, not The Persuasions.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 6:29 PM on November 17, 2007
When I used to make mixed tapes for friends, I'd fill any blank space at the end with Metal Machine Music. For me, it's always meant the end is near.
posted by stinkycheese at 7:08 PM on November 17, 2007
posted by stinkycheese at 7:08 PM on November 17, 2007
When I used to make mixed tapes for friends...
For mixed singles parties? ;-)
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:29 PM on November 17, 2007
For mixed singles parties? ;-)
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:29 PM on November 17, 2007
Well, I always thought it was tailor made for clearing the room when you were giving a party and wanted everyone to leave 'cause things were looking promising regarding a certain young woman or, later on, when you two were now living together, bone tired and just wanted people to leave already.*
I never did get to use it for that, though--my first encounter with it was when I was doing blues and reggae shows for the long gone KRAB in the 70s. And, honestly, I never made it past Side One, let alone get to Side Four. I took it back to the station the next show I did. I bought it as a cut out later on speculation and sold it years later still sealed.
I was just amazed that Zeitkratzer went to the trouble of scoring it and performing it, something of which I had never heard before I ran across this interview.
* My experience that the best record for clearing a room when you wanted people to leave was Steve Martin's Let’s Get Small . That got people putting their coats on fast, I'll tell ya.
posted by y2karl at 7:36 PM on November 17, 2007
I never did get to use it for that, though--my first encounter with it was when I was doing blues and reggae shows for the long gone KRAB in the 70s. And, honestly, I never made it past Side One, let alone get to Side Four. I took it back to the station the next show I did. I bought it as a cut out later on speculation and sold it years later still sealed.
I was just amazed that Zeitkratzer went to the trouble of scoring it and performing it, something of which I had never heard before I ran across this interview.
* My experience that the best record for clearing a room when you wanted people to leave was Steve Martin's Let’s Get Small . That got people putting their coats on fast, I'll tell ya.
posted by y2karl at 7:36 PM on November 17, 2007
My first thought was: okay, fun gimmick for an avant garde classical group to get a little attention.
Then I saw some of the names (Franz Hautzinger, esp) in the group and was even more disappointed.
These are people who don't need a decades-old piece of noise to be relevant. In fact, I'd say that doing this makes them less relevant.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:00 PM on November 17, 2007
Then I saw some of the names (Franz Hautzinger, esp) in the group and was even more disappointed.
These are people who don't need a decades-old piece of noise to be relevant. In fact, I'd say that doing this makes them less relevant.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:00 PM on November 17, 2007
These are people who don't need a decades-old piece of noise to be relevant.
But hey, Joseph, musicians don't necessarily always do what they do in order to be relevant. You see, there's this little thing called money...
My landlord never accepted relevance for November's rent, anyway.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:10 PM on November 17, 2007
But hey, Joseph, musicians don't necessarily always do what they do in order to be relevant. You see, there's this little thing called money...
My landlord never accepted relevance for November's rent, anyway.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:10 PM on November 17, 2007
These are people who don't need a decades-old piece of noise to be relevant.
Or they could simply like the piece and think highly of it. They sure display a high opinion of the original on their page for the album. And I hardly think they cut the record for the money. They were serious. They scored the damn thing: that was what impressed me enough to make this post. Somebody scored Metal Machine Music. Who'd a-thunk ?
I am led to understand that the whirring noise seventeen minutes into the third movement was recorded after midnight or October 30th in 2002 above the grave of Lester Bangs.
The whole genre 'noise' leaves me cold and, as some of my peers in the 70s used to say of reggae, it all sounds alike to me. And yet people I know now can discuss various noise bands at length with each other and sound quite knowledgeable in doing so. And they seem to like the stuff. Does that make them total frauds ? I don't think so.
People have different tastes. For me, the concept I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours has merit. I like what I like and if people like something else, that's fine with me. Of course, if they put on Metal Machine Music in the 8-track at their party when I'm there, I may be putting on my coat. Life is too short.
posted by y2karl at 8:29 PM on November 17, 2007
Or they could simply like the piece and think highly of it. They sure display a high opinion of the original on their page for the album. And I hardly think they cut the record for the money. They were serious. They scored the damn thing: that was what impressed me enough to make this post. Somebody scored Metal Machine Music. Who'd a-thunk ?
I am led to understand that the whirring noise seventeen minutes into the third movement was recorded after midnight or October 30th in 2002 above the grave of Lester Bangs.
The whole genre 'noise' leaves me cold and, as some of my peers in the 70s used to say of reggae, it all sounds alike to me. And yet people I know now can discuss various noise bands at length with each other and sound quite knowledgeable in doing so. And they seem to like the stuff. Does that make them total frauds ? I don't think so.
People have different tastes. For me, the concept I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours has merit. I like what I like and if people like something else, that's fine with me. Of course, if they put on Metal Machine Music in the 8-track at their party when I'm there, I may be putting on my coat. Life is too short.
posted by y2karl at 8:29 PM on November 17, 2007
And I hardly think they cut the record for the money.
Good point. I mean, there's already so much money in doing your own noise music, how could they possibly need any extra income from recording and performing the noise music of a very famous rock star?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:39 PM on November 17, 2007
Good point. I mean, there's already so much money in doing your own noise music, how could they possibly need any extra income from recording and performing the noise music of a very famous rock star?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:39 PM on November 17, 2007
IMO, one of the things that makes MMM so compelling and powerful that the cascade of noise is actually more-or-less pitched and built on the overtone series.
posted by treepour at 8:42 PM on November 17, 2007
posted by treepour at 8:42 PM on November 17, 2007
Japanese noise-god Merzbow attacks Korea. Nearby unfortunates cover their ears.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:47 PM on November 17, 2007
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:47 PM on November 17, 2007
Good point. I mean, there's already so much money in doing your own noise music, how could they possibly need any extra income from recording and performing the noise music of a very famous rock star?Take out the word noise and insert jazz or folk or blues. Did everyone who ever cut a tribute album or did an album of another artist's songs likewise do it only for the money grubbing ? Or could it possibly be that they revered a pioneer and inspiration ?
How easy it is trash other musicians' tastes and ascribe to them the worst possible motives when you can't understand how anyone could love what they love. And how do you cash in on the music of the most returned RCA album in history ? Where is this huge noise band market, anyway ? Zeitkratzer scored all of Metal Machine Music. They loved the piece. They had to love it to do all that work. That bespeaks something other than crass commercialism.
posted by y2karl at 9:19 PM on November 17, 2007
there's already so much money in doing your own noise music
Oh, ain't that the truth! When I was still living in Reykjavík barely a day went by that I didn't have to dodge out of the way of Hafler Trio's fleet of limos, whizzing through the alleys. In my neighborhood here in Providence we don't need any streetlights as the night is illuminated by the reflection of the moon off Lightning Bolt's gold and platinum geodesic dome headquarters. And of course, we can all see Derek Bailey's mile high mausoleum at the Lunar North Pole.
To get all serious, now that I've mentioned Hafler Trio... Andrew McKensie's in dire medico-financial straits and needs all the help he can get.
posted by Kattullus at 9:35 PM on November 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
Oh, ain't that the truth! When I was still living in Reykjavík barely a day went by that I didn't have to dodge out of the way of Hafler Trio's fleet of limos, whizzing through the alleys. In my neighborhood here in Providence we don't need any streetlights as the night is illuminated by the reflection of the moon off Lightning Bolt's gold and platinum geodesic dome headquarters. And of course, we can all see Derek Bailey's mile high mausoleum at the Lunar North Pole.
To get all serious, now that I've mentioned Hafler Trio... Andrew McKensie's in dire medico-financial straits and needs all the help he can get.
posted by Kattullus at 9:35 PM on November 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
You know, y2karl, the word "grubbing" doesn't necessarily follow the word "money". My indicating that the members of Zeitkratzer could use some cash doesn't automatically mean I'm accusing them of "crass commercialism". Money is, simply and naturally enough, a motivation, one of many, for musicians. There's no shame in that, and I didn't indicate in my original comment that there was shame in it. Everybody's gotta eat.
And where, exactly, did I trash other musician's tastes? And I "can't understand how anyone could love what they love?" Excuse me? What are you talking about?
BTW, the most returned RCA album in history has most likely still outsold, by far, all other extreme noise recordings by all other noise artists combined. You're essentially showing your ignorance here, in regard to the economics of fringe and experimental musics.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:40 PM on November 17, 2007
And where, exactly, did I trash other musician's tastes? And I "can't understand how anyone could love what they love?" Excuse me? What are you talking about?
BTW, the most returned RCA album in history has most likely still outsold, by far, all other extreme noise recordings by all other noise artists combined. You're essentially showing your ignorance here, in regard to the economics of fringe and experimental musics.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:40 PM on November 17, 2007
And I don't really want to believe that you're thick headed enough to imagine that it's gotta be either love or money as motivation for Zeitkratzer to do this. I didn't in any way indicate that Zeitkratzer do not love MMM. They may listen to it in rapture every day, for all I know. That doesn't mean, however, that they wouldn't be aware that the transcribing, recording and performing of the piece would lead to financial renumeration. And yes, renumeration that's quite likely above and beyond that which they usually see for their own projects.
In fact, the more I think of it, the more irritated I am at attitudes like yours that put musicians in some sort of fairy-tale land where artistic integrity and money are so clearly separated. It's an odd pedestal you put them on, and it's compounded by your own seeming ignorance, especially here in this situation where we're talking about fringe music that you (admittedly) don't even care for and have little to no familiarity with. I think your posts on vintage blues and folk are wonderful, and I've told you so in many comments in your threads. But quite frankly, you're talking out of your ass here, and it's quite unbecoming.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:56 PM on November 17, 2007
In fact, the more I think of it, the more irritated I am at attitudes like yours that put musicians in some sort of fairy-tale land where artistic integrity and money are so clearly separated. It's an odd pedestal you put them on, and it's compounded by your own seeming ignorance, especially here in this situation where we're talking about fringe music that you (admittedly) don't even care for and have little to no familiarity with. I think your posts on vintage blues and folk are wonderful, and I've told you so in many comments in your threads. But quite frankly, you're talking out of your ass here, and it's quite unbecoming.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:56 PM on November 17, 2007
I didn't in any way indicate that Zeitkratzer do not love MMM.
First, But hey, Joseph, musicians don't necessarily always do what they do in order to be relevant. You see, there's this little thing called money.
Then, Good point. I mean, there's already so much money in doing your own noise music, how could they possibly need any extra income from recording and performing the noise music of a very famous rock star
Now, you're all My indicating that the members of Zeitkratzer could use some cash doesn't automatically mean I'm accusing them of "crass commercialism".
Well, um, it sure seemed like it in those first two short comments. And I think the average passerby might think that, too.
BTW, the most returned RCA album in history has most likely still outsold, by far, all other extreme noise recordings by all other noise artists combined.
For that I would like to see some proof. I recall reading somewhere that the original vinyl Metal Machine Music sold something like 2000 copies. If that outsold all the other extreme noise artists combined, it is a small market indeed.
But those were different times and that doesn't count the CD re-issue, so hairs can be split ad infinitum.
As for cashing in on Metal Machine Music, I can't see how the time and effort they put into the project could have be that financially rewarding. It seems to me that it was far more a labor of love. You seemed to be implying in your first two asides that it was more about the money.
And where, exactly, did I trash other musician's tastes? And I "can't understand how anyone could love what they love?" Excuse me? What are you talking about?
Um...
Also, what DenOfSizer said. (Which was Bah, had it not been for John Cale we would not now be discussing the terribly bad photographer that is Lou Reed.)
You had managed to have dissed both Zeitzkratzer and Reed in the thread here, or so it seemed to me. It seemed like you were implying that for Zeitkratzer, it was about the money.
And I don't really want to believe that you're thick headed enough to imagine that it's gotta be either love or money as motivation for Zeitkratzer to do this.
Oh, I see everything in black and white, obviously.
In fact, the more I think of it, the more irritated I am at attitudes like yours that put musicians in some sort of fairy-tale land where artistic integrity and money are so clearly separated.
Well, I could understand if I actually thought you thought I had that attitude. It just seemed like you were into running them down in your first two comments and implying it was all about the Benjamins. Which made me laugh, considering all the $$$ to be made from the huge noise audience.
Actually, what would be interesting to see is a) how much money on this project will they make on this project, and b) how would that compare with other projects of theirs. I am far from persuaded their motivations, however complex, concerned the bottom line all that much. Especially considering the time they must have spent in the scoring and arranging of the piece.
I thought you were saying it was about the money for them. I was saying it might be more about the love and respect. That could be a mixture of both is a Well, duh... I just don't think money was that much of a consideration in this project. It's not the first thing I would have thought.
And for a guy who gets in a thin skinned huff thinking I'm putting words in your mouth, you sure hopped on this I'm putting artists on a pedestal crap. Oh, yeah, as if. Sauce, goose: soup, gander. 'Nuff said.
posted by y2karl at 10:55 PM on November 17, 2007
First, But hey, Joseph, musicians don't necessarily always do what they do in order to be relevant. You see, there's this little thing called money.
Then, Good point. I mean, there's already so much money in doing your own noise music, how could they possibly need any extra income from recording and performing the noise music of a very famous rock star
Now, you're all My indicating that the members of Zeitkratzer could use some cash doesn't automatically mean I'm accusing them of "crass commercialism".
Well, um, it sure seemed like it in those first two short comments. And I think the average passerby might think that, too.
BTW, the most returned RCA album in history has most likely still outsold, by far, all other extreme noise recordings by all other noise artists combined.
For that I would like to see some proof. I recall reading somewhere that the original vinyl Metal Machine Music sold something like 2000 copies. If that outsold all the other extreme noise artists combined, it is a small market indeed.
But those were different times and that doesn't count the CD re-issue, so hairs can be split ad infinitum.
As for cashing in on Metal Machine Music, I can't see how the time and effort they put into the project could have be that financially rewarding. It seems to me that it was far more a labor of love. You seemed to be implying in your first two asides that it was more about the money.
And where, exactly, did I trash other musician's tastes? And I "can't understand how anyone could love what they love?" Excuse me? What are you talking about?
Um...
Also, what DenOfSizer said. (Which was Bah, had it not been for John Cale we would not now be discussing the terribly bad photographer that is Lou Reed.)
You had managed to have dissed both Zeitzkratzer and Reed in the thread here, or so it seemed to me. It seemed like you were implying that for Zeitkratzer, it was about the money.
And I don't really want to believe that you're thick headed enough to imagine that it's gotta be either love or money as motivation for Zeitkratzer to do this.
Oh, I see everything in black and white, obviously.
In fact, the more I think of it, the more irritated I am at attitudes like yours that put musicians in some sort of fairy-tale land where artistic integrity and money are so clearly separated.
Well, I could understand if I actually thought you thought I had that attitude. It just seemed like you were into running them down in your first two comments and implying it was all about the Benjamins. Which made me laugh, considering all the $$$ to be made from the huge noise audience.
Actually, what would be interesting to see is a) how much money on this project will they make on this project, and b) how would that compare with other projects of theirs. I am far from persuaded their motivations, however complex, concerned the bottom line all that much. Especially considering the time they must have spent in the scoring and arranging of the piece.
I thought you were saying it was about the money for them. I was saying it might be more about the love and respect. That could be a mixture of both is a Well, duh... I just don't think money was that much of a consideration in this project. It's not the first thing I would have thought.
And for a guy who gets in a thin skinned huff thinking I'm putting words in your mouth, you sure hopped on this I'm putting artists on a pedestal crap. Oh, yeah, as if. Sauce, goose: soup, gander. 'Nuff said.
posted by y2karl at 10:55 PM on November 17, 2007
I always thought this album was a bit self-indulgent. I'd rather see something done with some of Glenn Branca's stuff.
posted by cytherea at 11:38 PM on November 17, 2007
posted by cytherea at 11:38 PM on November 17, 2007
y2karl, I essentially agree with the 'nuff said part, I don't want to flog this horse any longer, but I would just like to add, regarding this:
Well, um, it sure seemed like it in those first two short comments. And I think the average passerby might think that, too.
I guess often, when I make comments in a MeFi thread, I'm not really writing for the average passerby: correctly or not, I'm working on a general assumption that I'm not talking to strangers, but rather to people who have seen some of my posts, read some of my comments, maybe even listened to some of my songs. I would've assumed by this point that you know that I am a musician, and that if I make a comment like "this little thing called money", in this context especially, it would be interpreted not as an accusation of money-grubbing commercialism on the part of musicians (buncha soulless greedy fucks!), but rather as the voice of a musician (hell, basically an "avant-garde" musician at that!), speaking from experience. And so far, anyway, as far as I know, you're the only one who interpreted my comment as ascribing crass commercialism to these particular musicians. Perhaps the quip at the end of that particular comment about relevance not paying the rent passed you by, but many of my musician and non-musician friends alike (both here at MeFi and in the world at large) would grin in understanding : it ain't relevance and artistic merit that pay the rent. That's all.
Anyway, as I see that you did interpret my comment as an indictment against these musicians, which is unfortunate. Oh lord, please don't let me be misunderstood.
I'd also add that Ulrich Krieger (the Zeitkratzer member who transcribed MMM for the ensemble) is a friend of mine. A wonderful person, and a wonderful player who I was fortunate enough to spend some onstage playing time with last year in Brisbane, Australia. And Zeitkratzre's performances of MMM in Berlin were packed out, a fact due in no small part to the fame and visibility of one Mr. Lou Reed. Anyway, if you happen to see this thread, howdy Ulrich!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:48 PM on November 17, 2007
Well, um, it sure seemed like it in those first two short comments. And I think the average passerby might think that, too.
I guess often, when I make comments in a MeFi thread, I'm not really writing for the average passerby: correctly or not, I'm working on a general assumption that I'm not talking to strangers, but rather to people who have seen some of my posts, read some of my comments, maybe even listened to some of my songs. I would've assumed by this point that you know that I am a musician, and that if I make a comment like "this little thing called money", in this context especially, it would be interpreted not as an accusation of money-grubbing commercialism on the part of musicians (buncha soulless greedy fucks!), but rather as the voice of a musician (hell, basically an "avant-garde" musician at that!), speaking from experience. And so far, anyway, as far as I know, you're the only one who interpreted my comment as ascribing crass commercialism to these particular musicians. Perhaps the quip at the end of that particular comment about relevance not paying the rent passed you by, but many of my musician and non-musician friends alike (both here at MeFi and in the world at large) would grin in understanding : it ain't relevance and artistic merit that pay the rent. That's all.
Anyway, as I see that you did interpret my comment as an indictment against these musicians, which is unfortunate. Oh lord, please don't let me be misunderstood.
I'd also add that Ulrich Krieger (the Zeitkratzer member who transcribed MMM for the ensemble) is a friend of mine. A wonderful person, and a wonderful player who I was fortunate enough to spend some onstage playing time with last year in Brisbane, Australia. And Zeitkratzre's performances of MMM in Berlin were packed out, a fact due in no small part to the fame and visibility of one Mr. Lou Reed. Anyway, if you happen to see this thread, howdy Ulrich!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:48 PM on November 17, 2007
I don't know you from Adam. I just took issue with what I thought were a bunch of off the cuff belittling comments from someone who has called me names and insulted me the last couple of days.
posted by y2karl at 3:28 AM on November 18, 2007
posted by y2karl at 3:28 AM on November 18, 2007
The belittling comments being the asides about Lou Reed's musicianship and Zeitkratzer's motivations in scoring MMM. Short as they were, it was difficult to read the nuanced position from which they were made.
posted by y2karl at 3:35 AM on November 18, 2007
posted by y2karl at 3:35 AM on November 18, 2007
I don't know you from Adam.
Wow. Then all I have to say is, nice to meet you y2karl. My MetaFilter username is flapjax at midnite. I've made a great number of posts here at MeFi, most of them directly related to music, and many of those directly related to music which you are interested in: pre-war/country blues, blues, folk, Appalachian, etc. To the best of my recollection, one of those threads includes one of your comments. I must say, given the amount of FPPs I've posted focussing on musical genres that you are obviously interested in, I am genuinely surprised that you "don't know me from Adam". But actually, truth be told, given that I've commented in so many of your music-related threads, and that I can in fact only recall you commenting in one of mine, you have now fully confirmed a certain suspicion that I've had about you. While you may in fact be a fine fellow to hang out and have a beer with, your online persona is one of extreme non-generosity, in terms of recognizing other MeFite's (or, I dunno, maybe just my) contributions to this site. I note from your profile that you yourself have no favorites, and no contacts. Of course it's in no way your obligation to do so, but it speaks to a certain egocentrism to which I am referring. If you, as a fan of trad blues, folk and Appalachian music really don't know any of my posts, then, well, damn, you oughtta go look some of them up, friend, cause you could probably learn a thing or two from them. I know I've learned a thing or two from your posts. And I've commented favorably in a good number of them. But I must say, y2karl, that you come off as something of a know-it-all. As you've proved with your comments in this post, though, you're really not a know-it-all. No one is a know-it-all.
And I'm unaware of calling you any names. Perhaps you could direct me, then, to my own comments in which I've "called you names"? I can't recall them. And wherever you feel you've been insulted, it wasn't my direct intention to do so. As I see it, there are certain comments I've made lately, particularly in your recent Dylan thread and now in this one, on which you were very quick to disagree. I've been answering you. You've been putting words in my mouth and assigning meaning and intent to my comments that are incorrect. I've sought to correct them.
Anyway, so, you don't know me from Adam. Well, maybe you'll go back to some of my posts, some of my songs, and get to, uh, know me from Adam. And maybe you won't. But I've been a fan of your posts since joining MetaFilter. I've paid attention to your excellent contributions to this site. I have a great amount of respect for your obvious love of and knowledge of traditional American musical forms. I've enjoyed your links and your posts, many of which I've favorited. But I now think you are a rather petty person, lacking in generosity of spirit. No matter how many links to the great Roscoe Holcomb you make.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:30 AM on November 18, 2007
Wow. Then all I have to say is, nice to meet you y2karl. My MetaFilter username is flapjax at midnite. I've made a great number of posts here at MeFi, most of them directly related to music, and many of those directly related to music which you are interested in: pre-war/country blues, blues, folk, Appalachian, etc. To the best of my recollection, one of those threads includes one of your comments. I must say, given the amount of FPPs I've posted focussing on musical genres that you are obviously interested in, I am genuinely surprised that you "don't know me from Adam". But actually, truth be told, given that I've commented in so many of your music-related threads, and that I can in fact only recall you commenting in one of mine, you have now fully confirmed a certain suspicion that I've had about you. While you may in fact be a fine fellow to hang out and have a beer with, your online persona is one of extreme non-generosity, in terms of recognizing other MeFite's (or, I dunno, maybe just my) contributions to this site. I note from your profile that you yourself have no favorites, and no contacts. Of course it's in no way your obligation to do so, but it speaks to a certain egocentrism to which I am referring. If you, as a fan of trad blues, folk and Appalachian music really don't know any of my posts, then, well, damn, you oughtta go look some of them up, friend, cause you could probably learn a thing or two from them. I know I've learned a thing or two from your posts. And I've commented favorably in a good number of them. But I must say, y2karl, that you come off as something of a know-it-all. As you've proved with your comments in this post, though, you're really not a know-it-all. No one is a know-it-all.
And I'm unaware of calling you any names. Perhaps you could direct me, then, to my own comments in which I've "called you names"? I can't recall them. And wherever you feel you've been insulted, it wasn't my direct intention to do so. As I see it, there are certain comments I've made lately, particularly in your recent Dylan thread and now in this one, on which you were very quick to disagree. I've been answering you. You've been putting words in my mouth and assigning meaning and intent to my comments that are incorrect. I've sought to correct them.
Anyway, so, you don't know me from Adam. Well, maybe you'll go back to some of my posts, some of my songs, and get to, uh, know me from Adam. And maybe you won't. But I've been a fan of your posts since joining MetaFilter. I've paid attention to your excellent contributions to this site. I have a great amount of respect for your obvious love of and knowledge of traditional American musical forms. I've enjoyed your links and your posts, many of which I've favorited. But I now think you are a rather petty person, lacking in generosity of spirit. No matter how many links to the great Roscoe Holcomb you make.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:30 AM on November 18, 2007
Getting back to the thread of global interest, I didn't know how MMM was made until now, which is the same story for the "Silver Session for Jason Knuth" album by Sonic Youth
According to Moore, while the band tried to record the vocals for their A Thousand Leaves album one evening, a band in the neighboring studio proceeded to play "some funky metal overdrive." Frustrated over the incident, Sonic Youth turned every amplifier in their studio to ten-plus and leaned as many guitars as they could against them, creating a cacophony of ear-piercing feedback. The group recorded the session and mixed it into digestible sections
Of course, every sonic youth song captures that sound somewhere into it. e.g.,
two minutes into this.
posted by about_time at 5:24 AM on November 18, 2007
According to Moore, while the band tried to record the vocals for their A Thousand Leaves album one evening, a band in the neighboring studio proceeded to play "some funky metal overdrive." Frustrated over the incident, Sonic Youth turned every amplifier in their studio to ten-plus and leaned as many guitars as they could against them, creating a cacophony of ear-piercing feedback. The group recorded the session and mixed it into digestible sections
Of course, every sonic youth song captures that sound somewhere into it. e.g.,
two minutes into this.
posted by about_time at 5:24 AM on November 18, 2007
Getting back to the thread of global interest...
Point taken, about_time, and I shall commit any other personal communication with y2karl to mefi mail, which I should've probably done with my last comment as well. Apologies.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:33 AM on November 18, 2007
Point taken, about_time, and I shall commit any other personal communication with y2karl to mefi mail, which I should've probably done with my last comment as well. Apologies.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:33 AM on November 18, 2007
y2karl, this is one of my favorite music threads that you've posted. Not because of the subject matter, but because of your engagment in the comments throughout. Thanks.
FWIW, a few years later, when I wanted people to leave, I'd put on Lullaby from the Womb because it would either lull everyone to sleepiness or just freak them out. And I love Let's Get Small!
posted by sleepy pete at 8:51 AM on November 18, 2007
FWIW, a few years later, when I wanted people to leave, I'd put on Lullaby from the Womb because it would either lull everyone to sleepiness or just freak them out. And I love Let's Get Small!
posted by sleepy pete at 8:51 AM on November 18, 2007
I must be the only one here who remembers those 1980s AmEx ads -- Lou Reed waiting pimping for the Man
posted by matteo at 9:56 AM on November 18, 2007
posted by matteo at 9:56 AM on November 18, 2007
Well, thanks for bringing the new version to my attention.
Not only do I own a copy of the original, but, back when the world was young, I use to play Metal Machine Music on the air. In its entirety.
It got some great phone calls from the listeners, pretty evenly divided between "This is the greatest thing I've ever heard" and "Your radio station seems to be badly broken."
College radio was fun.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 6:23 PM on November 18, 2007
Not only do I own a copy of the original, but, back when the world was young, I use to play Metal Machine Music on the air. In its entirety.
It got some great phone calls from the listeners, pretty evenly divided between "This is the greatest thing I've ever heard" and "Your radio station seems to be badly broken."
College radio was fun.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 6:23 PM on November 18, 2007
flapjax, I know your name, but I didn't know you were a musician or anything. I don't think you should ever assume anyone's paying that much attention here. Except to quonsar.
posted by blacklite at 1:13 AM on November 19, 2007
posted by blacklite at 1:13 AM on November 19, 2007
"If you made it to side four, you're even dumber than I am."
posted by Eideteker at 5:09 AM on November 19, 2007
posted by Eideteker at 5:09 AM on November 19, 2007
Kattullus - that's a damn shame about Andrew McKenzie. H3O is one of my favorites in the genre.
posted by malocchio at 7:42 AM on November 19, 2007
posted by malocchio at 7:42 AM on November 19, 2007
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
What was peculiar was that he was supported by The Persuasions, who were a fucking revelation -- but were booed off by the audience. I went on to buy every single Persuasions record that was ever released, and never bought another Lou Reed record again in my life.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:03 AM on November 17, 2007 [2 favorites]