Making the NYPD Accountable? Good luck with that ...
April 29, 2008 1:54 AM Subscribe
American Fascism in action, courtesy the NYPD.
Because bicycle riders are clearly a danger to a peaceful society.
The symptoms of fascist thinking are colored by environment and adapted to immediate circumstances. But always and everywhere they can be identified by their appeal to prejudice and by the desire to play upon the fears and vanities of different groups in order to gain power.
Henry A. Wallace
The New York Times
The symptoms of fascist thinking are colored by environment and adapted to immediate circumstances. But always and everywhere they can be identified by their appeal to prejudice and by the desire to play upon the fears and vanities of different groups in order to gain power.
Henry A. Wallace
The New York Times
This post was deleted for the following reason: please GYOB. Thank you. -- jessamyn
This is absolutely shitty behaviour from the cops, and indicitive of poor discipline from above failing to restrain the violent urges and unprofessionalism of some piggish individuals.
(But it isn't fascism).
posted by Drexen at 2:19 AM on April 29, 2008
(But it isn't fascism).
posted by Drexen at 2:19 AM on April 29, 2008
Fascism is not knocking pricks off bikes. It's a system of government. So...
posted by Jofus at 2:27 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by Jofus at 2:27 AM on April 29, 2008
Actually, I take that back. They're not pricks. (Well, you know, they kind of are, but they're my pricks.) But that isn't fascism.
posted by Jofus at 2:29 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by Jofus at 2:29 AM on April 29, 2008
Although shocked by the footage I have a strange desire to know what such a large collection of videocameras and cyclists were doing in Times Square with such a strong police presence... admittedly I've only been there once, in the middle of the day, but is it safe to assume that this Glass Bead Collective was engaging in some sort of stunt or protest?
posted by Molesome at 2:30 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by Molesome at 2:30 AM on April 29, 2008
Sgt. Horohoe is physically interacting with bicyclists on roadway, causing unsafe conditions for traffic.
Because, y'know, Critical Mass doesn't cause unsafe conditions for traffic by design and a sizable minority of the cyclists involved are morally above physically interacting with motorists.
This isn't fascism, it's persecution porn.
posted by bunnytricks at 2:32 AM on April 29, 2008 [3 favorites]
Because, y'know, Critical Mass doesn't cause unsafe conditions for traffic by design and a sizable minority of the cyclists involved are morally above physically interacting with motorists.
This isn't fascism, it's persecution porn.
posted by bunnytricks at 2:32 AM on April 29, 2008 [3 favorites]
You know, some people may be seeing this as fascism. I don't think it is, but it's pretty obviously abuse of power. However, I see something much more important going on. I see the abusers fighting a losing battle.
They abuse their power, and arrest someone, and other people start filming and taking pictures, so they try to shut them down by intimidating and eventually arresting them too. And then more people come by, including some group with what looks like a stabilized video camera, and lots of more professional video and photo gear, and they try to keep them away, and so on.
They're screwed. We're only a few years away from society (at least big cities) being so saturated with cameras that sousveillance outweights surveillance. They'll never be able to get away with this shit again.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:40 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
They abuse their power, and arrest someone, and other people start filming and taking pictures, so they try to shut them down by intimidating and eventually arresting them too. And then more people come by, including some group with what looks like a stabilized video camera, and lots of more professional video and photo gear, and they try to keep them away, and so on.
They're screwed. We're only a few years away from society (at least big cities) being so saturated with cameras that sousveillance outweights surveillance. They'll never be able to get away with this shit again.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:40 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
1) I do not live in New York- I live in Seattle- so what exactly was I supposed to do about this? Even if I feel an injustice has occurred, what was the point of putting this on the blue, just so I can get ineffectually outraged?
2) The only tragedy here is if the officers in question have no undue consequences to their actions- if the Thin Blue Line/union/mayoral apathy prevents any actual consequences. Those posting the videos, by the fact that almost every case apparently got dismissed, apparently have followed "the system" fairly well. Those in NYC should continue to do so and make sure these officers stop being officers, period. They cannot be trusted with those positions and powers.
3) If it is the case that in #2 the officers on video had nothing happen to them except having the cases dismissed, and had a good laugh at the station about those damn hippies/bikers/other/whatever, then posting blog comments is pointless. Attack the officers in their homes, attack their families, attack them where they believe they are safe, until they have the fucking fear of God in them. That will produce a properly domesticated police officer. You do not domesticate a wild animal with blog posts, you discipline them by making sure they understand to the fiber of their being that they are not the alpha male. Cops that think they are above it all = rogue cops. Cops that believe they are there to protect and serve = good cops.
Some will post that "hey, hincandenza, take a chill pill!", or some such nonsense. No, they are wrong. We are always in the jungle, and if a rhino is charging you- or a cop harassing you- you don't argue logic and philosophy, you either run or blow it away with the largest gun available.
4) Before the usual cop- fellatio commences, all cops are evil, period. Some anecdotal evidence about that one time you once saw a marginally human creature wearing a uniform is the exception that proves the rule. Cops are just other organisms attempting to hurt you, and the laws of the jungle apply: we never truly leave the jungle. Deference to myths of state and civilizations are just that- myths. Kill a cop and sleep well tonight- they are evil the first time they put on the uniform.
As the Buddha might have said, if you meet a cop in the middle of the road... kill them.
posted by hincandenza at 2:47 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
2) The only tragedy here is if the officers in question have no undue consequences to their actions- if the Thin Blue Line/union/mayoral apathy prevents any actual consequences. Those posting the videos, by the fact that almost every case apparently got dismissed, apparently have followed "the system" fairly well. Those in NYC should continue to do so and make sure these officers stop being officers, period. They cannot be trusted with those positions and powers.
3) If it is the case that in #2 the officers on video had nothing happen to them except having the cases dismissed, and had a good laugh at the station about those damn hippies/bikers/other/whatever, then posting blog comments is pointless. Attack the officers in their homes, attack their families, attack them where they believe they are safe, until they have the fucking fear of God in them. That will produce a properly domesticated police officer. You do not domesticate a wild animal with blog posts, you discipline them by making sure they understand to the fiber of their being that they are not the alpha male. Cops that think they are above it all = rogue cops. Cops that believe they are there to protect and serve = good cops.
Some will post that "hey, hincandenza, take a chill pill!", or some such nonsense. No, they are wrong. We are always in the jungle, and if a rhino is charging you- or a cop harassing you- you don't argue logic and philosophy, you either run or blow it away with the largest gun available.
4) Before the usual cop- fellatio commences, all cops are evil, period. Some anecdotal evidence about that one time you once saw a marginally human creature wearing a uniform is the exception that proves the rule. Cops are just other organisms attempting to hurt you, and the laws of the jungle apply: we never truly leave the jungle. Deference to myths of state and civilizations are just that- myths. Kill a cop and sleep well tonight- they are evil the first time they put on the uniform.
As the Buddha might have said, if you meet a cop in the middle of the road... kill them.
posted by hincandenza at 2:47 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
... what was the point of putting this on the blue ...
So maybe you can prevent shit like this from happening in your town.
Unless you don't give a rat's ass about your right not to be arrested, charged and detained for taking a photograph.
Maybe I was overly harsh calling it fascism, but I see more and more police abusing their authority with approval from those who run the departments.
If playing on the fear of terrorism isn't a pretext for gaining more power then what is?
posted by bwg at 2:55 AM on April 29, 2008
So maybe you can prevent shit like this from happening in your town.
Unless you don't give a rat's ass about your right not to be arrested, charged and detained for taking a photograph.
Maybe I was overly harsh calling it fascism, but I see more and more police abusing their authority with approval from those who run the departments.
If playing on the fear of terrorism isn't a pretext for gaining more power then what is?
posted by bwg at 2:55 AM on April 29, 2008
Forgive me for supporting fascism and all that, but I'm with bunnytricks: from what I can see from this video this is persecution porn.
The cameramen aren't testing the limits of the law. They're testing the limits of someone's patience and it turns out the cop is just the kind of short tempered asshole they expect him to be. Bleating that they got arrested is a bit like a child goading a dog after they were warned not to and crying when they get bitten.
From what I could see, the first cyclist runs a red light and fails to stop. Knocking him off his bike is a bit extreme but then don't put yourself, other road users and pedestrians in danger and then expect to cycle off.
posted by MuffinMan at 2:56 AM on April 29, 2008
The cameramen aren't testing the limits of the law. They're testing the limits of someone's patience and it turns out the cop is just the kind of short tempered asshole they expect him to be. Bleating that they got arrested is a bit like a child goading a dog after they were warned not to and crying when they get bitten.
From what I could see, the first cyclist runs a red light and fails to stop. Knocking him off his bike is a bit extreme but then don't put yourself, other road users and pedestrians in danger and then expect to cycle off.
posted by MuffinMan at 2:56 AM on April 29, 2008
By the way, is the Sergeant a Whore or a Ho? What is the preferred usage these days in New York and can you always tell by the stripes on the arms?
posted by MuffinMan at 2:57 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by MuffinMan at 2:57 AM on April 29, 2008
Hincandenza:
Occupation: Gainfully unemployed
Gender: Male
Status: Single
Well, there's a surprise.
posted by matthewr at 2:58 AM on April 29, 2008
Occupation: Gainfully unemployed
Gender: Male
Status: Single
Well, there's a surprise.
posted by matthewr at 2:58 AM on April 29, 2008
hincandenza - leaving aside for the moment the excess testosterone and crass generalizations in your statement, I would say only that you're incredibly dumb to post comments like that in a public forum. If the government under which you live is as oppressive as you seem to think, you'd better go into hiding right now before the knock comes on your door.
posted by crazylegs at 2:59 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by crazylegs at 2:59 AM on April 29, 2008
"Attack the officers in their homes, attack their families, attack them where they believe they are safe, until they have the fucking fear of God in them. That will produce a properly domesticated police officer."
I've noticed as well that when you attack the families of police officers, they become quite docile and do what you tell them. Good tactic.
posted by crazylegs at 3:02 AM on April 29, 2008
I've noticed as well that when you attack the families of police officers, they become quite docile and do what you tell them. Good tactic.
posted by crazylegs at 3:02 AM on April 29, 2008
Ooo. Auto-godwin. Nice.
What? No it isn't. I don't see any comparisons to Nazis or Hitler, just a mention of fascism, and not all fascists are Nazis.
posted by cmonkey at 3:02 AM on April 29, 2008
What? No it isn't. I don't see any comparisons to Nazis or Hitler, just a mention of fascism, and not all fascists are Nazis.
posted by cmonkey at 3:02 AM on April 29, 2008
this is not the way your frame a post for a good discussion. sure, there's elements of fascism in the american government, but the term has been thrown around so much it has no meaning anymore. bunnytricks is right, this kinda stuff is "persecution porn" that's not so much about making people accountable and getting involved in local politics but instead about people sitting around and feeling righteous. it's one anecdote of police overstepping in a country that has some serious problems with it's police force. i mean, what is it you expect? you're either going to get a cynical reaction or patriotic vitriol. either way it's a dead end discussion.
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 3:03 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 3:03 AM on April 29, 2008
Fourth Amendment: guards against searches, arrests, and seizures of property without a specific warrant or a "probable cause" to believe a crime has been committed.
posted by bwg at 3:22 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by bwg at 3:22 AM on April 29, 2008
Attack the officers in their homes, attack their families, attack them where they believe they are safe, until they have the fucking fear of God in them. That will produce a properly domesticated police officer.
To respond without the sarcasm in other comments, this is seriously bad advice, and will never produce the predicted result. Don't be stupid.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:25 AM on April 29, 2008
To respond without the sarcasm in other comments, this is seriously bad advice, and will never produce the predicted result. Don't be stupid.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:25 AM on April 29, 2008
1. Spot someone you don't like;
2. Issue order that can't be obeyed;
3. Arrest person for not following order:
3a. This causes great discomfort and massive financial inconvenience;
4. Lie in court documents about the nature of the orders given;
5. Chuckle back at the station about those damn hippies.
That's not fascism, but it's clearly obscene.
posted by Malor at 3:43 AM on April 29, 2008
2. Issue order that can't be obeyed;
3. Arrest person for not following order:
3a. This causes great discomfort and massive financial inconvenience;
4. Lie in court documents about the nature of the orders given;
5. Chuckle back at the station about those damn hippies.
That's not fascism, but it's clearly obscene.
posted by Malor at 3:43 AM on April 29, 2008
To respond without the sarcasm in other comments, this is seriously bad advice
It's supposed to be advice? I just thought it was teenage rebel masturbation fodder?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:43 AM on April 29, 2008
It's supposed to be advice? I just thought it was teenage rebel masturbation fodder?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:43 AM on April 29, 2008
I'd like to think this thread isn't doomed....but meh. These never go well, people just can't NOT go over the top when discussing this topic.
A lot of the problem is that these aren't always simple. In a lot of videos where it appears clear what is going on, it often isn't; there is a strong lack of context frequently. We don't know what was going on beforehand. Does that excuse what you see in any given officer brutality/abuse of power video? Not at all. I'm just pointing out what some people don't really realize or think much about.
Personally? Yeah, I get outraged. My first reactions very much do not lean to the side o the officers involved. Most police interaction throughout my life hasn't been overly positive. That said, I am dating a non-sworn officer. Unlike discussing these topics with some of my friends, she frequently has a different perspective than I do on a lot of these events. I've found myself trying to suppress frustration or anger with her because of our different stances. This has really forced me to expand the way I see things, and while it doesn't usually change my opinion it has led to me being somewhat more...skeptical? No, that isn't the right word. I do now what I've learned to do with news, or when learning history, or much else. I think about it for myself and analyze it more, not just instantly accepting a viewpoint that is being framed and shown to me, and not reacting to biases I already have.
What does this really matter? Well, it doesn't, a lot of the time. I can't usefully take part in these discussions because trying to point out hyperbole or overreaction on either side won't go well, expressing my disgust or outrage here doesn't really change anything and just adds on to what has pretty much been said, and on the rare occasion that I think that the officers might be within the scope of their rights and duty I would be shouted down and called an apologist or fascist by some. We really, really don't do these well. I DO enjoy reading the bits of good discussion that come out of them sometimes though.
On the specific topic of the events of that video though? Definitely better coverage and details than most I've seen and that goes a long way towards backing any claim of police impropriety. What led up to this in the first place though? As was already asked, I'm curious too. As both a photographer and a citizen concerned about the state of some rights in this country though, gah; the combined actions of the police there really upset me and frustrated me.
Hmm. Yeah, in the sake of brevity I guess I should have left it at "christ, what an asshole".
posted by Stunt at 3:44 AM on April 29, 2008
A lot of the problem is that these aren't always simple. In a lot of videos where it appears clear what is going on, it often isn't; there is a strong lack of context frequently. We don't know what was going on beforehand. Does that excuse what you see in any given officer brutality/abuse of power video? Not at all. I'm just pointing out what some people don't really realize or think much about.
Personally? Yeah, I get outraged. My first reactions very much do not lean to the side o the officers involved. Most police interaction throughout my life hasn't been overly positive. That said, I am dating a non-sworn officer. Unlike discussing these topics with some of my friends, she frequently has a different perspective than I do on a lot of these events. I've found myself trying to suppress frustration or anger with her because of our different stances. This has really forced me to expand the way I see things, and while it doesn't usually change my opinion it has led to me being somewhat more...skeptical? No, that isn't the right word. I do now what I've learned to do with news, or when learning history, or much else. I think about it for myself and analyze it more, not just instantly accepting a viewpoint that is being framed and shown to me, and not reacting to biases I already have.
What does this really matter? Well, it doesn't, a lot of the time. I can't usefully take part in these discussions because trying to point out hyperbole or overreaction on either side won't go well, expressing my disgust or outrage here doesn't really change anything and just adds on to what has pretty much been said, and on the rare occasion that I think that the officers might be within the scope of their rights and duty I would be shouted down and called an apologist or fascist by some. We really, really don't do these well. I DO enjoy reading the bits of good discussion that come out of them sometimes though.
On the specific topic of the events of that video though? Definitely better coverage and details than most I've seen and that goes a long way towards backing any claim of police impropriety. What led up to this in the first place though? As was already asked, I'm curious too. As both a photographer and a citizen concerned about the state of some rights in this country though, gah; the combined actions of the police there really upset me and frustrated me.
Hmm. Yeah, in the sake of brevity I guess I should have left it at "christ, what an asshole".
posted by Stunt at 3:44 AM on April 29, 2008
posting blog comments is pointless. Attack the officers in their homes, attack their families, attack them where they believe they are safe, until they have the fucking fear of God in them. That will produce a properly domesticated police officer.
No. This will produce an extremely angry, bitter, paranoid and insecure man with a gun and with no clear target to vent their frustrations on - until the next punk on a bike rides a red light past him. What do you think will happen then?
posted by Drexen at 3:46 AM on April 29, 2008
No. This will produce an extremely angry, bitter, paranoid and insecure man with a gun and with no clear target to vent their frustrations on - until the next punk on a bike rides a red light past him. What do you think will happen then?
posted by Drexen at 3:46 AM on April 29, 2008
They're screwed. We're only a few years away from society (at least big cities) being so saturated with cameras that sousveillance outweights surveillance. They'll never be able to get away with this shit again.
Still feel that way? This thread is barely going and you can already see the number of people who want there to be an excuse for the police to beat on people. This in what has always been a predominately liberal echo chamber.
Those cops don't exist in a vacuum. They do what they do because they have support for it. Sousveillence won't change that just like the abu ghraib photos didn't change anything.
posted by srboisvert at 4:03 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Still feel that way? This thread is barely going and you can already see the number of people who want there to be an excuse for the police to beat on people. This in what has always been a predominately liberal echo chamber.
Those cops don't exist in a vacuum. They do what they do because they have support for it. Sousveillence won't change that just like the abu ghraib photos didn't change anything.
posted by srboisvert at 4:03 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Background here on this shorter video.
One year ago, at the March 2007 Critical Mass ride, cyclists,
videographers, community leaders and politicians came together to
challenge the NYPD's unconstitutional new parade permit rule that
limits the number of people that can legally assemble without a
permit.
We got a group together to break the new law and see what happens!
Bad law, bad way to try to get it changed, bad reaction from the police.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:10 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
One year ago, at the March 2007 Critical Mass ride, cyclists,
videographers, community leaders and politicians came together to
challenge the NYPD's unconstitutional new parade permit rule that
limits the number of people that can legally assemble without a
permit.
We got a group together to break the new law and see what happens!
Bad law, bad way to try to get it changed, bad reaction from the police.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:10 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Critical mass = We are above your stupid laws.
posted by mygoditsbob at 4:17 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by mygoditsbob at 4:17 AM on April 29, 2008
"you can already see the number of people who want there to be an excuse for the police to beat on people."
Where? Where? Have I gone blind?
I see a bunch of comments (including mine) taking issue with a guy who advocates attacking and killing cops. Is that what you're referring to?
If somebody wanted to kick a bear, or put a stick into a hornet's nest, I would pretty strongly advise against it, especially if I was standing next to them. Does that mean that I want someone to get attacked by a bear, or stung to death by hornets? No, it means that I think doing something that would lead to that result is very very stupid.
Also, I think generalizing that "all cops are evil, period" is not only stupid and untrue but dangerous. I'm not particularly fond of cops, in their role as cops, but to approve of the idea of them being beaten and murdered is appalling.
And regarding "the law of the jungle": anyone who advocates attacking and provoking a creature that is patently stronger and more vicious than they are (for example a Seattle blog poster advocating attacking the police) has clearly never actually lived in "the jungle". Animals will almost never attack something or someone that they perceive as stronger than them, because they understand that they'll get their ass kicked. People who advocate this sort of behavior are the result of the very state protection that they claim not to have.
Rogue cops love this macho attitude in protesters, cyclists, etc., because it perfectly justifies them when they beat the living crap out of somebody.
posted by crazylegs at 4:19 AM on April 29, 2008
Where? Where? Have I gone blind?
I see a bunch of comments (including mine) taking issue with a guy who advocates attacking and killing cops. Is that what you're referring to?
If somebody wanted to kick a bear, or put a stick into a hornet's nest, I would pretty strongly advise against it, especially if I was standing next to them. Does that mean that I want someone to get attacked by a bear, or stung to death by hornets? No, it means that I think doing something that would lead to that result is very very stupid.
Also, I think generalizing that "all cops are evil, period" is not only stupid and untrue but dangerous. I'm not particularly fond of cops, in their role as cops, but to approve of the idea of them being beaten and murdered is appalling.
And regarding "the law of the jungle": anyone who advocates attacking and provoking a creature that is patently stronger and more vicious than they are (for example a Seattle blog poster advocating attacking the police) has clearly never actually lived in "the jungle". Animals will almost never attack something or someone that they perceive as stronger than them, because they understand that they'll get their ass kicked. People who advocate this sort of behavior are the result of the very state protection that they claim not to have.
Rogue cops love this macho attitude in protesters, cyclists, etc., because it perfectly justifies them when they beat the living crap out of somebody.
posted by crazylegs at 4:19 AM on April 29, 2008
Establishment in trouble? MeFi to the rescue!
posted by DU at 4:24 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by DU at 4:24 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
it's persecution porn.
What a disgusting comment. It's never ok for cops to shove cyclists off their bikes and arrest people on sidewalks for taking pictures. The sneering in comments like the one above is a huge part of the problem.
posted by mediareport at 4:47 AM on April 29, 2008
What a disgusting comment. It's never ok for cops to shove cyclists off their bikes and arrest people on sidewalks for taking pictures. The sneering in comments like the one above is a huge part of the problem.
posted by mediareport at 4:47 AM on April 29, 2008
Fascism? No, this isn't fascism. This is just a symptom of fascism. Just because it makes the blue shirt brown, doesn't mean it's fascism. Fascism is like when the government keeps favoring businesses over the interests of the people, with a bunch of ugly crap thrown in to fool those very people into going along (like, TERROR!).
posted by Goofyy at 4:53 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by Goofyy at 4:53 AM on April 29, 2008
comparing cops shoving people off bikes to fascism?
wow, what an idiot.
posted by krautland at 4:54 AM on April 29, 2008
wow, what an idiot.
posted by krautland at 4:54 AM on April 29, 2008
wow, what an idiot.
You're missing the bigger picture. Or maybe you enjoy being arrested for nothing.
In which case you're the idiot, not me.
posted by bwg at 5:00 AM on April 29, 2008
You're missing the bigger picture. Or maybe you enjoy being arrested for nothing.
In which case you're the idiot, not me.
posted by bwg at 5:00 AM on April 29, 2008
because it perfectly justifies them when they beat the living crap out of somebody.
Other than that original shot where the biker gets pushed off his bike, I didn't actually see any footage of anyone getting the crap beaten out of them. That Chinese girl did squeal loud enough so that you'd *think* she was getting tazed, but I'm pretty sure there wasn't any tazing involved.
I agree with your point though.
Fascism is like when the government keeps favoring businesses over the interests of the people
So what name do you give it when the government is charged with balancing the interests of motorists who are trying to get to wherever they need to get to, with those of cyclists, who are determined to disrupt that process by mounting a protest that may observe the letter of the law, but violates its spirit and its intent?
Because I'm not at all clear what business interests those cops could have been favouring by avoiding a traffic snarl up in midtown?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:06 AM on April 29, 2008
Other than that original shot where the biker gets pushed off his bike, I didn't actually see any footage of anyone getting the crap beaten out of them. That Chinese girl did squeal loud enough so that you'd *think* she was getting tazed, but I'm pretty sure there wasn't any tazing involved.
I agree with your point though.
Fascism is like when the government keeps favoring businesses over the interests of the people
So what name do you give it when the government is charged with balancing the interests of motorists who are trying to get to wherever they need to get to, with those of cyclists, who are determined to disrupt that process by mounting a protest that may observe the letter of the law, but violates its spirit and its intent?
Because I'm not at all clear what business interests those cops could have been favouring by avoiding a traffic snarl up in midtown?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:06 AM on April 29, 2008
Thanks for adding the context Pater Aletheias; knowing that this was the NYPD trying to enforce a new parade rule during a Critical Mass demonstration shifts it very much away from the shock of seeing a random cyclist run a red light and get a faceful of smackdown. I can see why challenging the rule is necessary, and I can also see why lying in the police reports is necessary, although I wouldn't condone either. Strange Days this was not.
posted by Molesome at 5:06 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by Molesome at 5:06 AM on April 29, 2008
bwg, you really did overstate the case and hurt your post with the fascism quote.
On the other hand, the folks who see no link between police abuse of power and fascism are being willfully blind.
posted by mediareport at 5:08 AM on April 29, 2008
On the other hand, the folks who see no link between police abuse of power and fascism are being willfully blind.
posted by mediareport at 5:08 AM on April 29, 2008
Bleating that they got arrested is a bit like a child goading a dog after they were warned not to and crying when they get bitten.
Nice analogy there. I assume the protester equates to the child because they both complain loudly, and the cop equates to the dog because neither has any sense of personal responsibility? Oh, wait...
persecution porn
Awesome phrase. Perfect description of the outragefilter video posts that crop up once a week, provoke a Two Minute Hate, and sink back into the depths.
There's an interesting discussion to be had about bottom-up surveillance and how those in power will attempt to control it (we've seen a lot of anti-DSLR stuff recently - this weird "you need a permit to do that" belief that seems to be everywhere. Is this an early salvo in the camera wars, or just observer bias?) But comparing strong-arm crowd control to fascism ain't the way to frame an intelligent debate.
posted by Leon at 5:10 AM on April 29, 2008
Nice analogy there. I assume the protester equates to the child because they both complain loudly, and the cop equates to the dog because neither has any sense of personal responsibility? Oh, wait...
persecution porn
Awesome phrase. Perfect description of the outragefilter video posts that crop up once a week, provoke a Two Minute Hate, and sink back into the depths.
There's an interesting discussion to be had about bottom-up surveillance and how those in power will attempt to control it (we've seen a lot of anti-DSLR stuff recently - this weird "you need a permit to do that" belief that seems to be everywhere. Is this an early salvo in the camera wars, or just observer bias?) But comparing strong-arm crowd control to fascism ain't the way to frame an intelligent debate.
posted by Leon at 5:10 AM on April 29, 2008
I would like to see this turn into some kind of OJ thing, with you know... i guess the bicyclists would be OJ and the victim being abuse of power.
That being said, the last reaction and arrest was incredibly dramatic. Rights did seem to be abused throughout this video, but Ms. Lin's reaction to the police (and really, i thought it was understood that you need to comply with an ID request from a police officer) was rabble-rousing and caused a combination of disgust and pity for many, many things.
What happens now? What do we really want out of our police in highly congested areas?
Finally, i'd like to know more about the context in which this video was compiled.
posted by phylum sinter at 5:16 AM on April 29, 2008
That being said, the last reaction and arrest was incredibly dramatic. Rights did seem to be abused throughout this video, but Ms. Lin's reaction to the police (and really, i thought it was understood that you need to comply with an ID request from a police officer) was rabble-rousing and caused a combination of disgust and pity for many, many things.
What happens now? What do we really want out of our police in highly congested areas?
Finally, i'd like to know more about the context in which this video was compiled.
posted by phylum sinter at 5:16 AM on April 29, 2008
What a disgusting comment. It's never ok for cops to shove cyclists off their bikes and arrest people on sidewalks for taking pictures. The sneering in comments like the one above is a huge part of the problem.
What problem? The sneering comments on metafilter problem?
posted by mattoxic at 5:19 AM on April 29, 2008
What problem? The sneering comments on metafilter problem?
posted by mattoxic at 5:19 AM on April 29, 2008
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