"Fit" to report?

August 2, 2008 5:36 AM

In a recent Wall Street Journal story asking if Obama is "too fit" to be president, the reporter uses a Yahoo! message board to find sources (Google cache of the post). (via DF)
posted by starman (143 comments total)

How Obma make babby?

Awesome job with your new paper, Murdoch! This kind of journalism is sure to win some Pulitzers.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:41 AM on August 2, 2008 [12 favorites]

O RLY??

is that why I got this message today, a exemplar of convoluted thinking?

Help for Problems Accessing Yahoo!

Please use this form to report the error you are experiencing.
A problem occurred trying to file your report. We apologize for the inconvenience (2).
posted by infini at 5:43 AM on August 2, 2008

Wonderful....that's the best the WSJ can do now?

"Obama: 2Hot 2B Prez"


Hey, they'll get plenty of web hits for that article though, and page views are ad dollars! (Just like the NYT Style section, laughing about your bloggy class outrage over recent articles...all the way to the bank....)
posted by availablelight at 5:48 AM on August 2, 2008

I think the first reply got it right:

Easy to see that for some people in the world, totally meaningless drivel is what keeps them occupied and up at night.

Still, expecting top-notch journalism in an article asking if Obama needs a sammich is probably asking a bit too much of Ms. Chozick's talents.
posted by Punkey at 5:56 AM on August 2, 2008

This piece is worthless without a shot of Barack, naked to the waist, being oiled by a multicultural posse of nubile young things, grinning smugly at the camera while flexing his bicepts.
posted by Jilder at 5:57 AM on August 2, 2008 [12 favorites]

I weep for my country.
posted by fixedgear at 5:58 AM on August 2, 2008 [2 favorites]

I guess this is who Murdoch's reporters are talking about when they say, "some people say."

Also, are they measuring Lincoln with his stove pipe hat still on? This is dubious journalism all the way around.
posted by The Loch Ness Monster at 5:59 AM on August 2, 2008

HI I'M ON YAHOO MESSAGE BOARDS AND I COULD OVERTHINK A BEANPOLE GUY.
posted by Poolio at 6:07 AM on August 2, 2008

No need to use the Google cache to read the post; it's still there on Yahoo if you set your bozo filter to show-all.
posted by grimmelm at 6:16 AM on August 2, 2008

Liberal media.
posted by billysumday at 6:20 AM on August 2, 2008

what we really need is a guy who is muddled in his thinking due to senility and/or age and just plain dumb...(no: I can say bad things about old farts. I am older than Johnnie come lately...
posted by Postroad at 6:27 AM on August 2, 2008

I don't think we need to comment on or get outraged over every piece of fluff that shows up in election season.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:29 AM on August 2, 2008 [2 favorites]

I think Amy Chozick is a troll posing as a journalist and that the WSJ is aspiring to be the highbrow version of Encyclopedia Dramatica.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 6:31 AM on August 2, 2008

Amy "Chuckybutt" Chozick is the best reporter ever.
posted by NoMich at 6:35 AM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

Like, I was on TeenSpot, ok, and some people said that the old guy who wants to be president is too creepy like my uncle Gunther who sits and mumbles and goes like "INCOMING!!!!!" and makes Mommy cry.
posted by beelzbubba at 6:38 AM on August 2, 2008

It says much that I reflexively checked I wasn't reading an Onion article three sentences in.
posted by Happy Dave at 6:47 AM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

JOURNALISM!
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 6:50 AM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

There's no such thing as the perfect truth. We're subjective beings no matter how hard we pretend not to be. Still, there is a difference between FOX news pretending to be non-partisan and the blatant fabrication or omission of stories in order to fool the American public. Tabloids fib to sell papers. After all, "inquiring minds want to know." Mainstream newspapers and broadcasters have a more serious agenda. And until we start calling them on it, the line between fiction and news will continue to blur.

Amy Chozick is a freelance writer living in New York City. Amy is the editor of DISPATCH and AMEDIA Uncensored columnist.



© Copyright 2003 Amy Chozick

Source
posted by fixedgear at 6:52 AM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

This is why when people talk about the newspapers dieing off I just think, "And may they rot in hell."
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 6:55 AM on August 2, 2008 [9 favorites]

Her next article: Is Obama Too Smart To Be President?
posted by ericb at 7:06 AM on August 2, 2008 [5 favorites]

POTBELLY / CHUCKYBUTT 2008
~ ARE YOU GOING TO EAT THAT ~
posted by cortex at 7:10 AM on August 2, 2008 [9 favorites]

HURF DURF MOTOR VOTER
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:16 AM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

It's the buffet, stupid!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:19 AM on August 2, 2008

This article is painful to read. In this article say woman says "I won't vote for any beanpole guy". A commenter on a NYT article (there was an attractive picture of Obama holding a novel) read something like, "Look at Obama. He looks like a rock star. Notice how his jacket falls off his shoulders. Welcome back to glamor, America!"

I could puke at both of these comments. Unfortunately, appearance is how a lot of America votes. It's what drives us. I had a friend that said she wouldn't vote for Sen. Clinton because she had cankles. I politely chastised her and seriously rethought the friendship.

What an effing embarrassment.
posted by LoriFLA at 7:30 AM on August 2, 2008

Our next President.
posted by caddis at 7:39 AM on August 2, 2008

bicepts

Bicepts: Elitist muscles used to elevate oneself above the hoi polloi.
posted by srboisvert at 7:41 AM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

Of course the US needs to compete.
posted by caddis at 7:48 AM on August 2, 2008

All the news that's fit to print.
posted by Ron Thanagar at 7:49 AM on August 2, 2008

The Low-Road Warrior -- "Mudslinging will damage McCain’s brand—but it may be the only way he can win."

"[There's McCain's] portrayal of [Obama] as precious, self-infatuated, and effete: 'Only celebrities like Barack Obama go to the gym three times a day, demand MET-RX chocolate roasted-peanut protein bars and bottles of a hard-to-find organic brew—Black Forest Berry Honest Tea and worry about the price of arugula,' wrote campaign manager Rick Davis in an e-mail announcing 'Celeb.' And thus the emphasis on Obama’s rock-star persona, designed to engender envy and contempt among the swath of Middle America for which hipness is no virtue but a sign of pretension."

posted by ericb at 7:53 AM on August 2, 2008

Side note: it looks like the McCain folks have re-cut the 'Celeb' commercial, eliminating the Hilton and Spears images.
posted by fixedgear at 8:01 AM on August 2, 2008

Lincoln: From Illinois, born in the far west of the United States, relatively young, too skinny.

Obama: From Illinois, born in the far west, relatively young, too skinny.

They're almost the same person.
posted by gauchodaspampas at 8:02 AM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

All the news that's fit to print.

I'm 60lb over weight, and I'll be damned if I'm reading *any* news from a paper that prints the word 'fit' anywhere in it's strapline.

Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly both look like men who've got a fatal coronary in their very near future, so I'll continue getting my news and analysis from other morons like myself.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 8:02 AM on August 2, 2008

Gay-baiting Obama

"McCain isn't stupid. As he's surrounded himself with senior gay male advisors since at least the 1990s, McCain is usually careful about overt gay-bashing (though he did promise the religious right a few weeks ago that he'd be more publicly anti-gay, and just last week said he didn't think gay people should be able to adopt children (he then backtracked, kind of). Instead, McCain and his people are attempting to define Obama as 'gay' by describing him as the stereotypical gay man. Yesterday, a McCain spokesman described Obama as fussy and prone to hysterics. A few days earlier, we were told that Obama was 'flitting' around Europe. And before that, a GOP operative called Obama 'a fancy lad.' Also, who is Obama compared to in the latest McCain ad? (An ad that independent fact-checkers say is totally false.) Two women, and kind of ditzy women at that - Britney Spears and Paris Hilton. Let's review. A fussy, fancy lad who flits around Europe, is prone to hysteria, and reminds you of ditzy blonde chicks. Sorry, but that's a stereotypical gay guy. And as I said, McCain knows his gay guys. He's surrounded by them."

Republican talking head Sherry Jacobus on Obama and the "Celeb" advertisement: "We don't need a homecoming queen."

"The underlying premise of the modern conservative movement is that the entire Democratic party consists of a bunch of fags and dykes who are both too effeminate and too masculine to properly lead the nation. Coulter says it out loud. Dowd hints at it broadly. And the entire press corps giggles and swoons at this shallow, sophomoric concept like a bunch of junior high pom pom girls."^*

posted by ericb at 8:04 AM on August 2, 2008 [6 favorites]

They're almost the same person.

"Obama? How can you support an Illinois lawyer with only two years of experience in national office?

Oh, it worked out pretty well last time."

Ron English's Obama/Lincoln Mural in Boston.
posted by ericb at 8:08 AM on August 2, 2008

Let see, so far Obama is too smart, to popular, too fit, too black, too white to be black, too Christian, too Muslim and too effeminate to be president. Oh and his middle name is Husein and he used to use the nick-name Barry. And his birth certificate has the wrong font on it and he called himself a professor when he was just an adjunct professor. Have I missed any?

Can we possibly get any stupider as a nation? (don't answer that)
posted by octothorpe at 8:14 AM on August 2, 2008 [7 favorites]

When I saw the headline ("Too Fit to Be President?") I naturally assumed that they were talking about his fitness for office - that is, his intelligence.

The WSJ is no longer a serious news source.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 8:15 AM on August 2, 2008 [3 favorites]

This morning, reading this story and a few other things online, I was filled with a deep sense of dread.

This shit is going to work, isn't it?
posted by Bookhouse at 8:21 AM on August 2, 2008 [6 favorites]

I think he could stand to lose a few pounds
posted by poppo at 8:23 AM on August 2, 2008

Bob Herbert: Running While Black

The racial fantasy factor in this presidential campaign is out of control. It was at work in that New Yorker cover that caused such a stir. (Mr. Obama in Muslim garb with the American flag burning in the fireplace.) It’s driving the idea that Barack Obama is somehow presumptuous, too arrogant, too big for his britches — a man who obviously does not know his place.

posted by octothorpe at 8:26 AM on August 2, 2008

This shit is going to work, isn't it?

Yup.
posted by dobbs at 8:28 AM on August 2, 2008

I can't say if Obama is "too fit", but this mind-numbing trifle makes me fucking fit to be tied.
posted by psmealey at 8:31 AM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

yes. one missed. Obama also accused of being without a sense of humor...ho ho ho
McCain does have a sense of humor. That may well be the only sense he has.
posted by Postroad at 8:37 AM on August 2, 2008

This is so insanely stupid. The cache of the yahoo page shows that only one person agreed with her and two called her out. It's unusual, I think, and possibly noteworth that her sole positive response is from onlinebeerbellygirl, who seems to have popped into existence mid-July, and whose presence is only on this one page.

Also, as of right now, onlinebeerbellygirl and Amy's response are still on the uncached page. I don't know if one can delete-and-restore comments in yahoo's system, or if they were never really deleted at all. Awful, ham-handed fuckuppery all around.
posted by boo_radley at 8:37 AM on August 2, 2008

I don't know if one can delete-and-restore comments in yahoo's system, or if they were never really deleted at all.

The comment was never deleted, but seems to have gone below the default comment rating threshold and then back above it.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 8:40 AM on August 2, 2008

Gotcha. Thanks, TOCT.
posted by boo_radley at 8:43 AM on August 2, 2008

This shit is going to work, isn't it?

I certainly kinda hope so. There's a JAL business-class ticket to Narita in my future if this nation proves itself to be that sufficiently fucked.

When I first bailed on the US in mid-1992 there was no internet, Amazon, online banking, etc. These days -- provided I can get the proper long-term visa -- the location of my desk and chair can be almost anywhere.
posted by yort at 8:49 AM on August 2, 2008

Postroad: "yes. one missed. Obama also accused of being without a sense of humor...ho ho ho
McCain does have a sense of humor. That may well be the only sense he has."

Yea, you're right, I missed that one. That's always the retort of a loudmouthed bully isn't it? "Oh I was just kidding around, you should have more a sense of humor"
posted by octothorpe at 8:53 AM on August 2, 2008

This is the best we can do? This? "Oh, well, the attempts at painting him as a Muslim terrorist aren't working to curb his popularity. I know! We'll write about how he's TOO PRETTY to be President! That'll show him!"

(the "too pretty" being a reference to a quote in the article where someone whines that they can't tell if Obama is running for President or Mr. Universe.)
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:06 AM on August 2, 2008

I'm in the process of losing all hope right now, so that I don't have to go through it in November when the media finishes annointing President McCain. *sigh*
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:08 AM on August 2, 2008

This will not work at all. Middle America very much liked the fact that GW is the kind of man who works out and keeps himself healthy. Americans view not working out and being overweight as a personal failing, especially in men. Pushing at the gym every day is something most just don't have the willpower for, and we respect people that do.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 9:09 AM on August 2, 2008

This is the best we can do?

It's the last gasp of the idiocracy. *crosses fingers*
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:09 AM on August 2, 2008

it's just the start - first, they establish him as some kind of healthy freak - then they'll claim that he's going to control the fast food industry just the way the liberals in los angeles want to - "obama's war on burgers"
posted by pyramid termite at 9:11 AM on August 2, 2008

Also, given the Obama camp's ability at issue akido, I would expect this to be an excellent launching point for a health/nutrition initiative, especially among the underprivileged and minorities who suffer worse long-term health.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 9:17 AM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

I don't think you're that far off, pyramid termite. The other day Rick Davis, McCain's campaign manager, said that it was relevant that he eats Powerbars and nuts as snacks because most of America can't relate to that. Here's the video.
posted by dobbs at 9:22 AM on August 2, 2008

that should read "...relevant that Obama eats Powerbars..."
posted by dobbs at 9:23 AM on August 2, 2008

I am the NRA (Nitrated Rasher Association), and Mr. Obama can have my bacon when he pries if from my cold, dead, lard-smeared hand.

(Shouldn't be much longer, if my cardiologist is correct.)
posted by cog_nate at 9:32 AM on August 2, 2008

Warning: The following metaphor may be offensive.

"I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night...plunging a bayonet into the throat of Rupert Murdock."

I always think of Murdock when Boss Spearman and Charlie Waite blow away Baxter and his bought and payed for law men in Open Range.
posted by aiq at 9:33 AM on August 2, 2008

I sent her an email:

Dear Amy,
I'd like to let you know that your article in the WSJ has marked the exact moment in time where I officially gave up all hope for a reasonable presidential campaign this fall. At first I pretended to be shocked at the leaps of logic that journalistic commentators such as yourself were going to in order to belittle the Obama campaign, but when I think back over the last 8 years and the treatment that Gore & Kerry got, vs. the complete pass that Bush was handed, I realized that the shock was merely a long-term memory problem. On the surface of it, it's obvious you're not an Obama supporter. So I must ask -- is there nothing of substance that you could devote your pages to, such as why someone might by qualified to be president, and if you think that McCain is more qualified, could you perhaps state the reasons you think so, concerning the way his presidency will affect the lives of Americans and people throughout the world? Or should I suppose that it's way too much to ask? Judging from your column, it is.

I will plod to my polling place on Nov. 5th, and I will dejectedly cast my vote for Obama, knowing in my hear of hearts that he is going to lose.

Thanks a lot,
Chris Vreeland
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:35 AM on August 2, 2008 [11 favorites]

i think that the democrats should be careful that the only spin they put on food is the spin they put on their rotisserie chickens
posted by pyramid termite at 9:36 AM on August 2, 2008

WSJ is not fit to be even the conservative paper of record.
posted by DU at 9:48 AM on August 2, 2008

If by "fit" they mean "black". I mean, everyone knows that those blacks make better athletes, amirite?
posted by longbaugh at 9:55 AM on August 2, 2008

Does Obama have the sauce to mix it up in November? What is McCain's beef with Obama, and will he boil over at the debates? What do their sous chefs think about pot and pan cleaning techniques? Stay with the Wall Street Journal for complete coverage of Iron Chef: 2008.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:56 AM on August 2, 2008

I think this is fascinating for a lot of reasons. These kinds of messages have always been pumped out by the Cheerleaders For The Base: Coulter, Limbaugh, and the B and C list talk radio types whose jobs are to keep the narrow slice of Lifestyle Tribal Conservatives on fire for the team. The difference is that national campaigns, and the A-list message-broadcasters like WSJ editorialists, rarely went to this kind of stuff. There were other, more substantive ways to take potshots.

Even as recently as two or three months ago, that's what you saw: national outlets talking about "the wright scandal" and military understanding and gas tax holidays and so on. Shallow, yes, but tangentially related to the issues of the presidency.

As each of those sets of talking points failed to dent Obama, and his campaign demonstrated its ability to deflect attacks and "own" the talking points, the national water-carriers for the McCain campaign has been dipping deeper and deeper into the well of Limbaugh and Coulter-esque tribal potshots. Say what you will about the average intelligence of the US voter, but the "Obama is too fit!" and "Obama eats powerbars!" stuff doesn't have a lot of resonance outside of the really hardcore base of people who are actively perusing through lists of reasons to hate The Other.

McCain doesn't really have anything to attack Obama with. At least when they ran with the "Al Gore says he invented the Internet" crap, it implied Gore was an egotist, and perhaps a liar. Saying that Obama is... in shape? That he eats Powerbars? This is all they have to run with in August? No wonder Republicans are depressed and angry this year.
posted by verb at 9:56 AM on August 2, 2008 [11 favorites]

'Only celebrities like Barack Obama... worry about the price of arugula,' wrote campaign manager Rick Davis

Well, I'm sure American arugula producers care too, even if there's only eight of them. Why don't Rick Davis and the Republican Party care about hardworking American farmers?!? Why does John McCain implicitly condone the denigration of red-blooded workers of the earth who harvest their livelihood from the fertile American soil in states such as New Jersey, Florida, and yes, his own home turf of Arizona?!?

Do arugula producers receive the same support and subsidies as Big Ear - subsidies that have done nothing to protect the American consumers under the Republican administration, I might add?
I doubt it.
Arugula producers are doing it on their own, and do not live their lives by Big Buisiness' leave! They hack it out of the wilderness with their own two hands, bearing their children along the way, just like the people who built this country!

Do the right thing tonight and enjoy a healthy dish prepared with delicious and nutritious arugula. And then in November, do the right thing again by voting for Barack Obama, a healthy dish in his own right.

Say it out loud: "Arugula". It even sounds like "America".

Too bad you can't say the same for Jon McCain and the Republican Party.

The preceeding comment was a message from The American Association of Seven Arugula Farmers For Barack Obama (Gary's Still Angry That Hilary Clinton Didn't Get The Nom).
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:02 AM on August 2, 2008 [10 favorites]

Saying that Obama is... in shape? That he eats Powerbars? This is all they have to run with in August?

Don't forget, he's also popular, inspiring and well-liked around the world. Which, in McCainland, are more reasons not to vote for him.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:02 AM on August 2, 2008

he seems to have that he won't actually have to debate Obama

All McCain will have to do is in the debates is "repeat after me." He's probably already used to wearing a hearing aid, so the debates will be like having a "smart" hearing aid.
posted by digaman at 10:19 AM on August 2, 2008

If by "fit" they mean "black". I mean, everyone knows that those blacks make better athletes, amirite?

I think you're close to the mark there. I flinched when I saw that they used an image of Obama holding a basketball. I can't believe that was accidental, or that "fit" was the only metaphor going on.

Also, notice that Clinton is shown in his ridiculous shorts, but the obvious (equally ridiculous and easily available) shot of Bush in his bicycling outfit is ignored in favor of a respectable looking suit.

Very editorially savvy photo choices all around.
posted by rokusan at 10:22 AM on August 2, 2008

In the debates... He's probably already used to wearing a hearing aid...

Easy spin. The Democrats just make certain that this is covered in the fine print. The news story that will "leak" will be that an agreement on debates is being held up because the McCain camp refuses to the condition that candidates be inspected for hidden electronics.

Which will reopen the Bush history, and so on.... all benefits to the Obama team to have people suspicious going in.
posted by rokusan at 10:25 AM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

Dateline: Washington DC, April 13, 2009: McCain Demands Obama Get Off His Lawn.

"I pay taxes, taxes paid for that lawn, so technically, it is mine," possibly bitter failed candidate grumbles before being escorted from annual White House Egg Roll.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:25 AM on August 2, 2008

We have yet to actually see any extensive period of time in which Obama and McCain are actually standing next to each other, discussing their opinions and views devoid of media editing. And no, I don't think McCain is going to be able to handle that. And I wonder if his campaign knows that or not.

The thought I had today that filled me with dread was about the novel The Secret History (only mildly spoiling): there's a part where one of the conspirators complains about letting their brainy leader being the one who spoke to the police:

"I'll tell you the sort of thing he was worried about. Like if he was carrying the right book, if Homer would make a better impression than Thomas Aquinas."

I wonder if Democrats are like that too. That no matter how we feel about policy and even broad platforms, if all we're doing is worrying about carrying the right book.
posted by Bookhouse at 10:29 AM on August 2, 2008

So the McCain campaign and the press have now conceded that Obama is (1) hugely popular, (2) a great public speaker, and (3) in excellent health. Is this some sort of post-modern George Costanza "do the opposite" campaign strategy?
posted by schoolgirl report at 10:33 AM on August 2, 2008 [6 favorites]

So the McCain campaign and the press have now conceded that Obama is (1) hugely popular, (2) a great public speaker, and (3) in excellent health.

These are somehow very, very bad things.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:57 AM on August 2, 2008

On a 1976 visit to Texas, Gerald Ford bit into a tamale with the corn husk still on. He lost the election to Jimmy Carter.

The Nixon pardon was clearly irrelevant.


In 2003, Mass. Sen. John Kerry was labeled effete when he ordered a Philly cheesesteak with Swiss instead of the usual Cheez Whiz topping.

The Swift Boat campaign and the huge, endless echo it received in the "liberal media"? Irrelevant, too. It was the Cheez Whiz.
posted by matteo at 11:04 AM on August 2, 2008

Ha! Your first President was a 98 lb weakling!

Sir John A. would *totally* kick sand in his face.
posted by mazola at 11:21 AM on August 2, 2008

Devils Rancher: "I will plod to my polling place on Nov. 5th, and I will dejectedly cast my vote for Obama, knowing in my hear of hearts that he is going to lose."

I suspect your dejection will be aggravated by the abjectly low turnout that day.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 11:34 AM on August 2, 2008

It's the Rove strategy to attack your opponents strengths as if they were weaknesses. It's too bad the democrats are going to be pussies and not attack McCain for being a senile old war criminal that probably collaborated with the communists.
posted by empath at 11:34 AM on August 2, 2008

Or maybe it's intended as Wipers Times-style ironic counter-propaganda, like "The Germans Have Plentiful and Tasty Meats" or "This farce promises to be a great success and a long run is expected".
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 11:39 AM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

I believe that you people thinking that the fact that Obama will crush McCain in the debates is a game-ender are engaged in a bit of wishful thinking.

In the 2004 debates, no reasonable person could have concluded anything except that Kerry dominated. He was calm, well-spoken, and on-point.

Bush, on the other hand? If I remember correctly, in one debate he was bizarrely confused, in another he was bizarrely hostile, and in a third he was bizarrely tranquil. It was as if he were on three different drugs for the three different debates.

He won.
posted by Flunkie at 11:39 AM on August 2, 2008 [3 favorites]

Well, he may be too fit to be president....but you know what? He's also 2 legit 2 quit.
posted by jimmythefish at 11:53 AM on August 2, 2008

There's way too much hand-wringing on this thread. The WSJ article is actually a good sign: it shows how desperate the opposition is. Everybody for Obama please relax. Deep breaths. I'm confident Obama is going to win, is going to win big, and there's nothing the WSJ or McSame can do about it.
posted by ornate insect at 11:53 AM on August 2, 2008

This Obama fellow is entirely too presidential to be President.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:07 PM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

There's way too much hand-wringing on this thread. The WSJ article is actually a good sign: it shows how desperate the opposition is.

While I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say that it's desperation yet, that was what I was trying to get at. This kind of material is Coulter-column material. To see it percolating up into the "respectable" talking point repeaters indicates a profound and pervasive lack of meaty attacks.

It's obviously not a sure thing, but wow. It's... just. Kind of sad.
posted by verb at 12:12 PM on August 2, 2008

In other news...
posted by verb at 12:31 PM on August 2, 2008

gnfti, I just bought a 1930s edition of the complete Wipers Times
posted by jouke at 12:34 PM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

This week has been nothing but classic, low-down, kinda pathetic campaign mudslinging from McCain. I think it stems from the fact that Obama just got back from a huge middle east and europe tour where he was basically greeted as the next president.

McCain's team is probably realizing that it has to drag him down with any muck they can get their hands on, or this election will be over well before November. The fact that this is all the muck they have to throw is actually somewhat encouraging.

Then again, I was saying the same thing four years ago when Kerry was ten points ahead and Bush's team was desperately attacking his vietnam record.
posted by mullingitover at 12:38 PM on August 2, 2008

So far, this post and thread has collectively captured about 5 hours of people's attention.

Hmm...

I guess there are worse problems to be had when it comes to deciding who should be the next President.
posted by captainsohler at 12:45 PM on August 2, 2008

sorry, 7 hours
posted by captainsohler at 12:47 PM on August 2, 2008

Well, what do you know, she answered my email within the hour -- somewhat nice, though somewhat terse and defensive is how I'd characterize it. Apparently, she's the WSJ's "travels with Obama" road reporter, and according to her, the Obama campaign thinks she's okay. In response, I said it wasn't her one article, but the general tone that it was helping to reinforce that I found dismaying, and if she was such a substantive reporter of the issues in the past, why was she stooping to this level now? Hey, at least she reads her email.
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:54 PM on August 2, 2008

Thanks for that link, octothorpe.
posted by homunculus at 12:55 PM on August 2, 2008

She wrote back to me. "Did you read the full story? I also quote two governors, a former chief of staff from the Clinton Administration, etc"

I did read the whole article. In addition to quoting two guvs and a former COS, she quotes the "Obama eats PowerBars and drinks fancy expensive juice" pretty much word-for-word from the Repubs.
posted by fixedgear at 1:02 PM on August 2, 2008

He's looking pretty fit in this recently released video of him engaging in deadly combat with McCain. He's pretty handy with the nunchucks too.
posted by slimepuppy at 1:16 PM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

I had to laugh out loud at some of the put-downs of the WSJ article. Some were really funny.

That said, I was reminded in all this about the pure, unadulterated sexism and misogyny that many posters here, and many writing in the press, engaged in when Obama and Hillary were competing.

It was a no-holds-barred, non-stop campaign of trash-talking Hillary based on her looks, her gender, her relationship with her husband, etc. etc. etc.

Heck, for the first time, before or since the Democratic primary - Hillary and Bill Clinton were calmly called racists. Two long-time supporters of civil rights were smeared, and not a peep about the insidiousness of that. Of course, now these "racists" have been recruited to help Obama. There's something deliciously ironic about that.

I never saw even one complaint here about sexism or misogyny pointed at Hillary (although after Hillary's concession, Howard Dean and others offered token, condescending apologies, as did the press) that sort of thing here.

Well, now that Obama - thin, not-thin, in-shape, who cares, really? - has backed of so many of his original positions that he's set a record for number of top-spins by a politician-running-for-President, even his youth base is beginning to falter.

Like it or not, whether it's because of his torso size, or whatever, Obama doesn't resonate with the people he need to get elected. He's not going to win the Presidency. Just look at the polls, showing him in a worse position in August than any Democratic candidate in recent history. He has razor-thin margins in key swing states, *before* the GOP ramps up its attack machine. (I warned about this, noting that there's a difference between puffy-gloves in a primary, and bare knuckles in a campaign - Obama is proving to have a glass jaw when attacked frontally)

The ironic thing about the WSJ article is that it can be used as a metaphor for how _thin_ Obama is on experience, on his ability to bring people together (so far, he's proved a worse divider than Bush, among Democrats), and so on.

So what we're left with is a skinny little wisp of a guy who has served in the Senate for 143 days; who regularly found ways to use procedural rules to limit his electoral competition; who blatantly lifted the hard work of others to gain notoriety in the Illinois Senate, and who continues to change positions so many times that he looks like the Road Runner perform a flip-flop pirouette, turning his skinny little body round-and-round (liek his positions) whilst keeping his eye on some focal point (the Presidency), while everyone begins to take another look at the others in this dance drama, and reconsider how they just might have been hoodwinked.

One more thing. Has anyone considered that Obama is thin because he smokes? It's a beneficial side-effect for many. I want to see a few articles about _that_. Why not? Anything goes. Right? Obama set the _anything goes_ tone, and he will bear its fruit.
posted by MetaMan at 1:36 PM on August 2, 2008

"Obama: 2Hot 2B Prez"

That was the most slammin' track on Prince's new album.
posted by jonp72 at 1:52 PM on August 2, 2008

I never saw even one complaint here about sexism or misogyny pointed at Hillary (although after Hillary's concession, Howard Dean and others offered token, condescending apologies, as did the press) that sort of thing here.


Are...are you serious? Were you looking?
Come on, man, we know you're still pissed about Hillary, but I remember it as being ROUNDLY agreed upon here that the media said some really shitty, obviously sexist shit about her. The idea that everyone on Metafilter spent the entire Hillary campaign giggling about her looks is untrue and insulting.
posted by 235w103 at 2:06 PM on August 2, 2008 [2 favorites]

Just wanted to point out to mazola that the 98 lb prez was James Madison, our tiniest president. Washington was pretty tall and buff. And an ass-kicker.
posted by jabberjaw at 2:11 PM on August 2, 2008

Where Have You Gone, John?

"In the middle of John McCain's dopey Britney & Paris attack ad, the announcer gravely asks of Barack Obama: 'Is He Ready to Lead?' An equally good question is whether McCain is ready to lead. For a man who will turn 72 this month, he's a surprisingly immature politician—erratic, impulsive and subject to peer pressure from the last knucklehead who offers him advice. The youthful insouciance that for many years has helped McCain charm reporters like me is now channeled into an ad that one GOP strategist labeled 'juvenile,' another termed 'childish' and McCain's own mother called 'stupid.' The Obama campaign's new mantra is that McCain is 'an honorable man running a dishonorable campaign.' Lame is more like it. And out of sync with the real guy.

...the negativity may well boomerang. 'It's hard to imagine America responding to "small ball" when we have all these problems,' says John Weaver, McCain's chief strategist in 2000 who was pushed out of the campaign last year.

...I misread McCain. On the night of the 2000 South Carolina primary, I was in his hotel suite and watched Cindy weeping over what Rove and his goons did. Her husband was plenty mad, too. Now he's got Rove's protégé, Steve Schmidt, running his campaign. Eight years ago, McCain profusely apologized for playing racial politics in South Carolina by backing efforts to fly the Confederate flag at the state capital. Now he's content to see race crowd out the economy in the battle for precious media oxygen. McCain argues that Obama opened himself up to attack by saying, "They're gonna say he doesn't look like those other presidents on the dollar bills." But if his campaign hadn't leaped on that Obama comment, it would have been another. Accusing the other guy of playing the race card is a not terribly subtle form of, well, playing the race card—and the victim."

posted by ericb at 2:23 PM on August 2, 2008

McCain does have a sense of humor.

Yeah. His "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran" schtick was side-splitting funny!
posted by ericb at 2:25 PM on August 2, 2008

"Just look at the polls, showing him in a worse position in August than any Democratic candidate in recent history."

You really have no...clue what you're talking about, do you?


I was wrong, but it's a minor point relative to the other stuff above, which was the thrust of what I wrote.

The fact is that people here, and elsewhere, and in the press were egregious in their gender-based attacks on Hillary, but you didn't utter a _peep_ about that, did you? Again, _did you_!??? so why get huffy about a puff piece that points out a feature of Obama's physique?

btw, using Obama's thin physique as a metaphor for his thin experience is apt.

I freely admit to making a factual error, that happens to the best, but it doesn't change the fact that Obama's egregous flip flopping is costing him support. Obama's is loss of support among youth or the sense that his support in key swing states is slipping


from the above link:
McCain Closes On Obama In Three Key Swing States
A set of new polls out yesterday from Quinnipiac University shows Sen. John McCain narrowing Sen. Barack Obama's leads in the key swing states of Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. In Florida, Obama now leads McCain 46%-44%, down from a 47%-43% lead in a similar poll taken mid-June. In Ohio, Obama also leads 46%-44%, down from a 48%-42% in the June poll. In Pennsylvania, Obama tops McCain 49%-42%, down from a 52%-40% lead in the previous survey. The AP runs a brief report on these polls.
posted by MetaMan at 2:29 PM on August 2, 2008

I want to commend Devil's Rancher for being motivated to write.

Feedback does matter. Complaints do affect coverage. Right-wing activists have been doing this for years.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:31 PM on August 2, 2008

"Obama eats PowerBars and drinks fancy expensive juice"

And "regular guy" John McCain favors $520 Ferragamo Calfskin loafers, shares 7 houses and a private jet with his wife. Any charge of elitism against McCain is unfair, indeed.
posted by ericb at 2:32 PM on August 2, 2008

...too big for his britches — a man who obviously does not know his place.

There are some who view Obama as being an "uppity nigger."

"Barack Hussein Obama is a really uppity nigger for thinking that with the little experience he has, that he has a right to the Presidency of the United States of AMERICA."

posted by ericb at 2:36 PM on August 2, 2008

This shit is going to work, isn't it?

I hope not, but am scared that it just might.
posted by ericb at 2:40 PM on August 2, 2008

Come on, man, we know you're still pissed about Hillary, but I remember it as being ROUNDLY agreed upon here that the media said some really shitty, obviously sexist shit about her.

I don't see this as "ROUNDLY agreed upon here that the media said some really shitty, obviously sexist shit about her"

I see some mention of it by a _few_ people, relatively speaking.

The degree of outrage here toward sexism directed at Hillary was FAR less than seen in the outrage directed at the WSJ, in ONE piece about Obama's thin physique, and how it plays in the perception of some voters.
posted by MetaMan at 2:45 PM on August 2, 2008

She wrote back to me. "Did you read the full story? I also quote two governors, a former chief of staff from the Clinton Administration, etc"

Christ, what an asshole. None of those people supported her "in shape = problem" thesis. The only two who do are onlinebeerbellygirl, an account created solely to respond to the question and therefore quite likely either Chozick or someone being sarcastic, and random housewife Diana Koenig of Corpus Christi, TX (cursory looking found no online evidence she exists, though also no evidence she doesn't). Even if onlinebeerbellygirl is real and sincere, Chozick completely ignores the fact that the overwhelming consensus was that her thesis was too stupid for Yahoo, and similarly who knows how many housewives laughed in Chozick's face before she possibly found one who said he needs some meat on his bones?
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 2:48 PM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

"Just look at the polls, showing him in a worse position in August than any Democratic candidate in recent history."
You really have no...clue what you're talking about, do you?
I was wrong, but it's a minor point relative to the other stuff above, which was the thrust of what I wrote.

Judging by your first comment, Obama's standing in the polls is hardly a minor point. Clearly, he's resonating with his audience a lot better than you gave him credit for, which makes the rest of your arguments a bunch of skinny straw men barely masquerading your contempt for the media's treatment of Clinton.

Which, by the way, is totally irrelevant at this point. She's out of the race. She's done. It's over. Perhaps the lessons about misogyny should be brought up the next time we have a woman in the race (which will hopefully be soon), but for now it's Obama v. McCain until November. Mentioning the media's portrayal of any other candidate is about as relevant as mentioning Britney Spears' latest stint at rehab. Ok, maybe slightly more relevant, but not much.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 2:52 PM on August 2, 2008

So the McCain campaign and the press have now conceded that Obama is (1) hugely popular, (2) a great public speaker, and (3) in excellent health. Is this some sort of post-modern George Costanza "do the opposite" campaign strategy?

Seinfeld ("The Outing -- Not That There's Anything Wrong With That"):

Jerry: "People think I'm gay....Yeah, 'cuz I'm single, I'm thin and I'm neat.

Elaine: And you get along well with women.

....I am not gay. I am, however, thin, single and neat. Sometimes when someone is thin, single and neat people assume they are gay because that is a stereotype. They normally don't think of gay people as fat, sloppy and married. Although I'm sure there are, I don't want to perpetuate the stereotype. I'm sure they are the minority though within the gay community. They're probably discriminated against because of that, people say to them ‘Y'know Joe, I enjoy being gay with you but I think think it's about time, y'know that you got in shape, tucked the shirt in and lost the wife’. But if people are even going to assume that people that are neat are gay, maybe instead of doin' this: ‘Y'know I think Joe might be a little... [waves hand back and forth]’, they should vacuum: ‘Y'know I think Joe might be >vroom<>vrooom<>

posted by ericb at 2:53 PM on August 2, 2008

That's an assertion that I don't think you can prove; however, your assertion that you didn't see ONE complaint is provably false. Mad props to the_bone for actually doing the dirty searching work that I was too lazy to do.
So you lied about that, and have made "factual errors" since. It's clear you're not interested in facts, or reasoned discussion, and there's no reason to respond to you. Have a good one.
posted by 235w103 at 2:55 PM on August 2, 2008

I never saw even one complaint here about sexism or misogyny pointed at Hillary

Confirmation bias. Search the archive and I'm sure you'll find many more instances beyond the one the_bone was able to quickly find.
posted by ericb at 3:14 PM on August 2, 2008

Here's the post I admittedly read into, in error, and have readily admitted reading into it, in error, but a few dogs here want to keep chewing on their schadenfreude bone, and trying to look "real analytical, and all" by calling me names, or a "concern troll".

The outrage here is how the reporter created a Yahoo message thread to create her own source for a story.

She used the message thread to ask a question; only a biased hack would say she used it to create a source. Does Keith Olberman "create a source" when he invites someone to his "I-wannabe-Walter-Cronkite-fests?

Last, did any of you who missed the _entire point_ of my first post, which has to do with the suspect overreaction to even the slightest criticism of Obama, whilst conveniently ignoring Obama's problems (talk about skimming over sources!) even _read_ the entire WSJ article? Much of it was complimentary to Obama; it was a pretty good piece, all told.

You really need to stop your reflexive responses to anyone who criticizes Obama. I see that as a problem, and too fawning, especially for people who pride themselves on well-researched, independent thinking. How's that for "concern"? It's a real concern.

Sure, I have a bias, but so do you. It looks like you're a bit more prickly than most, when it comes to having your biases challenged.
posted by MetaMan at 3:37 PM on August 2, 2008

FART.
posted by stenseng at 3:42 PM on August 2, 2008

however, your assertion that you didn't see ONE complaint is provably false.

Provably false? Prove it. Before you try, read your quote, again, carefully. You're so blind with bias and venom that you can't see straight. (and please, refrain from coming back with another puny rejoinder that makes a pun on what I just wrote; it's too easy). Relax, and have a nice say.
posted by MetaMan at 3:44 PM on August 2, 2008

Much of it was complimentary to Obama

Have you ever heard of a back-handed compliment? Well, I'm about to give you one.

You are very passionate about what is important to you.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 3:55 PM on August 2, 2008

Fuck the WSJ with a chainsaw.
posted by bardic at 4:05 PM on August 2, 2008

James here had a good point: the person quoted in the article has posted nothing else on Yahoo Message Boards, ever. It could very well be an entirely manufactured quote from the reporter herself. I'd sure love to see Yahoo check the posting IPs on those originals.
posted by mathowie at 4:34 PM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

I e-mailed Amy and asked how she could sleep at night. "Pretty well. Traveling around the country with Obama is exhausting.", she replied. Not having journalistic ethics or a conscience must do that for you I guess.
posted by vac2003 at 4:35 PM on August 2, 2008

Metaman, they're paging you at hillaryis44.org. Better hurry back.
posted by mullingitover at 4:37 PM on August 2, 2008

Provably false? Prove it. Before you try, read your quote, again, carefully. You're so blind with bias and venom that you can't see straight.

Oh my god, it burns. It BURNSES.
Call me John Q. Anti-Deconstructionist, but in a textual discussion, WORDS need to have MEANINGS.

I never saw even one complaint here about sexism or misogyny pointed at Hillary (although after Hillary's concession, Howard Dean and others offered token, condescending apologies, as did the press) that sort of thing here.

The key WORDS here are "I never saw even one complaint....". Maybe I'm wrong here, maybe what I'm supposed to parse out is that you are saying that you literally did not SEE the many complaints that posters have linked to, not that those did not exist. In this case, I don't know what to tell you...I've never seen Spoon play live, but I'm not going to make claims that they don't exist.
Sorry, everyone reading this. I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but I'm an English major. I have to believe, to some degree, that words have some sort of importance or else we're just cabbage train fish engineer.

P.S. Bias? I didn't even mention Obama, or Hillary. The only thing I've taken issue with is your assertions. However, I AM blind with venom. F'in spitting asps, I tell you...
posted by 235w103 at 4:55 PM on August 2, 2008

MetaMan has been banned after being given several timeouts in the past for him vs. the site hillary/obama fighting, so no need to continue to feed the troll
posted by mathowie at 4:55 PM on August 2, 2008 [12 favorites]

cabbage train fish engineer

Dude! They totally opened for Spoon at Emo's the other night!

thanks, Matt.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:05 PM on August 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

Idiot MOTP: "Yes I think He is to skinny to be President.Hillary has a potbelly and chuckybutt I'd of Voted for Her.I won't vote for any beanpole guy."
Idiot Reporter: "Love your response and your username (onlinebeerbellygirl)."

That's the quality and integrity of Wall Street Journalism today. Thanks, Rupert.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 7:08 PM on August 2, 2008

I have to believe, to some degree, that words have some sort of importance or else we're just cabbage train fish engineer.

Oooh. "Cabbage train fish engineer" is totally going to be the name of my yet-to-be-created sock puppet.

Oh? I shouldn't have said that outloud? Now they'll all know it's just me? Damn. Back to square one.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:01 PM on August 2, 2008

at this point in the campaign, how can anyone possibly believe Obama is "a guy who has served in the Senate for 143 days".

really? he's only been in senate since march?

Anyone making that claim has to be a troll.
posted by mulligan at 9:44 PM on August 2, 2008

Happy Dave: It says much that I reflexively checked I wasn't reading an Onion article three sentences in.

For what it's worth, the Onion already did this months ago.
posted by PsychoKick at 11:23 PM on August 2, 2008

Amy Chozick is a journalistic failure.

Her stunt on that message board proves only that a single person in the US thinks that Obama is too thin to be President. A few more dingbats worry not so much about his physique but how they can somehow spin it to their advantage.
The remaining 250 million or whatever don't give a hoot (and shouldn't).

I hope that future potential employers of Amy Chozick will do a quick googling of her name and discover what a journalistic failure she is. Unfortunately I am afraid that she still might have a future in mindless propaganda (if that sort of "reporting" is to stay in the US.)
posted by sour cream at 12:14 AM on August 3, 2008

I'm sick of this god damned stupid anti-elitist bullshit. If the president of the United States isn't elite, than who the hell is? When we elect someone to that august office, they sure as hell better not be a regular guy. Out of touch with the American people, hell yes I should hope so. I want a rich gym rat foreign policy wonk, not some guy who is struggling with their weight, energy levels and personal finance issues for their entire presidency. The last thing I want when some casus belli comes along is for the POTUS to be thinking about their personal life. That shit should be squared away.
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:44 AM on August 3, 2008 [3 favorites]

CHANGE OF HEART
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:24 AM on August 3, 2008

My email to Ms. Chozick:

Dear Ms. Chozick:

One day while traveling for business, I was relaxing in my hotel room and flipping channels. I turned to CNN to catch a "before we go" story about a Bible study group held in a Hooters restaurant of the American south. The story was presented with little sense of irony, and the reporters clearly didn't grasp the humor of their topic. I decided at that moment that parody and satire are dead. If this is what passed for real news, how can The Onion compete?

On a related note, when I read your article, I wondered if you had first submitted it to The Onion, and then tried WSJ. Especially considering the nice "infographic" with the candidates' heights.

By your article's logic, our next president should be overweight, uninformed, undereducated, monolingual, and definitely not have a passport. Truly, let's elect someone fat and average in every way, so Americans will feel represented by "one of them". How we feel about our elected officials' diet and fitness regimen is clearly more important than how effectively they will govern. Your article truly reinforces the notion that we are a nation of morons.

You know, I was going to go on here for a few paragraphs, but instead I'm going to help you out. Read the title essay in George Saunders' The Braindead Megaphone. Really. Just read it.

Sincerely,


...
posted by 4midori at 10:30 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

Arhg. Maureen Dowd's NYT op-ed today quotes this stupid story AND manages to insult Clinton's supporters and Jane Austen in the same piece. Christ on a bike.
posted by jokeefe at 2:19 PM on August 3, 2008

This shit is going to work, isn't it?

I hope not, but am scared that it just might.

"The trend of the tracking polls hasn't been good of late. Rasmussen, which is a quite reputable poll, has Obama and McCain tied today -- and with leaners (basically people who haven't made up their minds, but are forced to choose for the poll), McCain is up by one point.

...Rasmussen's poll today sends one message to John McCain. His disgusting, sleazy, personal attacks on Obama are working. We can now expect a lot more, and there's little reason to think that they won't be just as effective next time. Just very, very disturbing."^*

posted by ericb at 9:20 AM on August 4, 2008

I wouldn't put too much faith in overall poll numbers. This is not decided on the popular vote, but rather on the electoral college.
posted by caddis at 11:21 AM on August 4, 2008

Gergen: McCain Using Code Words To Attack Obama As "Uppity"
posted by homunculus at 1:19 PM on August 4, 2008

Paris Hilton responds to McCain ad, presents energy policy
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 3:40 PM on August 5, 2008

Paris Hilton responds to McCain ad, presents energy policy

While I can't stand her, I have to say: "Well done. Well done."
posted by ericb at 5:16 PM on August 5, 2008

Yeah. Huh. I don't want to go crazy and say that that, like, justifies the pop culture swampland that is Greater Hiltonia, but it's a high point at least.
posted by cortex at 5:24 PM on August 5, 2008 [1 favorite]

Update.
posted by starman at 3:16 PM on August 6, 2008

Book on Obama Hopes to Repeat Anti-Kerry Feat
posted by homunculus at 9:50 AM on August 13, 2008

Unfit to Lead
posted by caddis at 12:30 PM on August 14, 2008

Unfit for Publication (big pdf)
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:57 PM on August 14, 2008

Troops Deployed Abroad Give 6:1 to Obama
posted by homunculus at 1:00 PM on August 15, 2008

Why do the troops hate the troops so much?
posted by psmealey at 10:44 AM on August 16, 2008

‘Audacious’ Is The New ‘Presumptuous’ Uppity
posted by homunculus at 11:43 AM on August 20, 2008

Limbaugh: Obama won primaries because no one ‘had the guts to stand up and say no to a black guy.’
posted by ericb at 4:08 PM on August 20, 2008

I thought, what the hey, let's open up a thread at PoliticalFilter and get this thing going. Head over there if you want to discuss / liveblog tonight's events.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 5:22 PM on August 28, 2008