Welcome to the United States!
May 30, 2001 3:33 AM Subscribe
Welcome to the United States! The same weekend his film opened (to glowing reviews) in the United States, Iranian film director Jafar Panahi was handcuffed and chained to a bench overnight in the bowels of JFK airport because he lacked the proper visa-- even though he was just changing planes. Despite limited English, he was not given a translator. American law "requires every Iranian to be photographed and fingerprinted upon entering the United States. Once in the country, Iranians are not allowed to travel outside a 25-mile radius of New York without permission." Link via Random Walks
Why did he not have a Visa? Because he asked the officials at the film festival and the clerks at the airline counter in the Hong Kong airport. This is tantmount to getting you speed limit and traffic law information from the counter girl at Budget Car Rental. While I do not agree with the tactics employed, it would be refreshing if the guy had the humility to shrug and say, "gee, I should have had my visa." or "maybe I should have checked with the proper authority before making my trip". This guy is not to be completely absolved from blame here.
This article comes off like it is preposterous to even suspect incoming Iranians of any misdeed or ill intention. There are people in this world who loathe the U.S. enough to come here as part of some wily subterfuge and commit evil deeds. That is reality. Miss Liberty does represent freedom, liberty, and the human spirit; it is also reality that it is necessary to protect these concepts with policy. Policy does not work on an case-by-case basis.
Let me remind you that if you were to travel to Iran without, perhaps even with, the required documentation the consequences could make what happend to Panahi look like a brisk walk in the park.
posted by internook at 4:21 AM on May 30, 2001
This article comes off like it is preposterous to even suspect incoming Iranians of any misdeed or ill intention. There are people in this world who loathe the U.S. enough to come here as part of some wily subterfuge and commit evil deeds. That is reality. Miss Liberty does represent freedom, liberty, and the human spirit; it is also reality that it is necessary to protect these concepts with policy. Policy does not work on an case-by-case basis.
Let me remind you that if you were to travel to Iran without, perhaps even with, the required documentation the consequences could make what happend to Panahi look like a brisk walk in the park.
posted by internook at 4:21 AM on May 30, 2001
He should have said he was an illegal from south of Texas and there would have been no problem. He would be given a job gardening for some wealthy family or taken on a construction crew and paid minimum wage.
posted by Postroad at 4:43 AM on May 30, 2001
posted by Postroad at 4:43 AM on May 30, 2001
Why did he not have a Visa?...protecting liberty etc etc
A far better question would be:
Why should anyone need a visa just to transit?
posted by lagado at 4:58 AM on May 30, 2001
A far better question would be:
Why should anyone need a visa just to transit?
posted by lagado at 4:58 AM on May 30, 2001
Lagado doesn't see the bigger picture here.
Everyone's a terrorist and he/she wants YOUR job! That's right, you're fired, history, we're moving forward and you're in 'park'! Lagado is a communist, spread it around.
Btw, any of you ever tried getting a visa from the outside?
posted by tiaka at 6:02 AM on May 30, 2001
Everyone's a terrorist and he/she wants YOUR job! That's right, you're fired, history, we're moving forward and you're in 'park'! Lagado is a communist, spread it around.
Btw, any of you ever tried getting a visa from the outside?
posted by tiaka at 6:02 AM on May 30, 2001
This article comes off like it is preposterous to even suspect incoming Iranians of any misdeed or ill intention.
The United States has terrorists too. Should all of us be treated like criminals when we travel overseas?
posted by rcade at 6:20 AM on May 30, 2001
The United States has terrorists too. Should all of us be treated like criminals when we travel overseas?
posted by rcade at 6:20 AM on May 30, 2001
Because of the Schengen-convention, europeans don't need any identification when travelling across borders inside the European Union. Thank you, EU!
(And to the Iranian film director: dude, that sucks.)
posted by Hjorth at 7:12 AM on May 30, 2001
(And to the Iranian film director: dude, that sucks.)
posted by Hjorth at 7:12 AM on May 30, 2001
Considering the direction the EU is going, that's about as meaningful as the fact that you don't need ID to travel between New York and New Jersey.
posted by aaron at 7:43 AM on May 30, 2001
posted by aaron at 7:43 AM on May 30, 2001
It seems to me that the policy is rooted more in harassment than actual terrorist protection measures. It basically seems to say, if you're from here, here, here or here, we don't want you. Surely there are more efficient and better ways to prevent terrorism than treating anyone from 4 specific countries as an automatic criminal.
posted by FPN at 8:37 AM on May 30, 2001
posted by FPN at 8:37 AM on May 30, 2001
This account by Jafar Panahi himself, which made the rounds in some mailing lists a few weeks back, is worth a look. Not a great deal of new information, but more moving.
posted by sj at 8:49 AM on May 30, 2001
posted by sj at 8:49 AM on May 30, 2001
Considering the direction the EU is going, that's about as meaningful as the fact that you don't need ID to travel between New York and New Jersey.
In that case, from my experience of travelling from NY to NJ, it's only a matter of time before toll booths appear on the Belgium/Netherlands border. (There are, of course, the small variances of language, given that even Romano Prodi isn't going to impose Esperanto on the EU.) But Shengen is an opt-in; any member state can unilaterally reimpose border controls if they consider it necessary.
As for the Iranian: well, his treatment at the airport was, quite frankly, only fractionally worse than most peoples' at the hands of the US Immigration Service.
posted by holgate at 9:17 AM on May 30, 2001
In that case, from my experience of travelling from NY to NJ, it's only a matter of time before toll booths appear on the Belgium/Netherlands border. (There are, of course, the small variances of language, given that even Romano Prodi isn't going to impose Esperanto on the EU.) But Shengen is an opt-in; any member state can unilaterally reimpose border controls if they consider it necessary.
As for the Iranian: well, his treatment at the airport was, quite frankly, only fractionally worse than most peoples' at the hands of the US Immigration Service.
posted by holgate at 9:17 AM on May 30, 2001
I am always in awe when Americans invoke "freedom and liberty" as the justification for government oppression, either of its own citizens or those from other lands. What does locking up an Iranian traveller have to do with my "freedom?" In fact, name me one single act that the US has ever done that can honestly be said to have been perpetrated in the name of freedom?
Show me the US championing "freedom", and I'll show you slave labor, counter-insurgency terror programs, and single moms kicked off welfare and having to work at less than a living wage....Yes, they are all related.
posted by mapalm at 9:30 AM on May 30, 2001
Show me the US championing "freedom", and I'll show you slave labor, counter-insurgency terror programs, and single moms kicked off welfare and having to work at less than a living wage....Yes, they are all related.
posted by mapalm at 9:30 AM on May 30, 2001
holgate: Netherlands/Belgium isn't exactly New York/New Jersey. Ahem.
posted by raysmj at 9:53 AM on May 30, 2001
posted by raysmj at 9:53 AM on May 30, 2001
You know, the United States isn't paradise. Things go wrong here. Bad things happen to blameless people here. But that happens everywhere, and it probably happens less here than anywhere else. So, I think all you people who are so quick to dis' the United States are either self-hating, or ill-informed or hateful or just jealous. Sorry you weren't born here. Sorry our pervasive media shows you the bad stuff a lot quicker than it does in other countries. Sorry. But really, GROW THE F' UP!
posted by ParisParamus at 10:30 AM on May 30, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 10:30 AM on May 30, 2001
A far better question would be:
Why should anyone need a visa just to transit?
The obvious answser is it's far too easy a way to get into a country under false pretenses. There's nothing to stop somebody from remaining in transit - i.e. f*cking off from the airport ten seconds later - so the individual has to be treated as if they are going to remain in the country for the duration of the visa - or not allowed in if the situation indicates that there's some kind of potentially illegal activity from a criminal or immigration point of view.
I had this exact in transit situation myself last week, and waited patiently in an enormous lineup to have my visa accepted so that I could board my next plane and move on. The process itself is annoying if you're just passing through, but it's certainly completely understandable. And as Internook points out, there are procedures in place that are supposed to be dealt with in advance to ensure this goes at least relatively smoothly. As to treating Iranians or any other group differently, that's a separate issue from requiring visas for people in transit...
posted by DiplomaticImmunity at 10:31 AM on May 30, 2001
Whose fault is it when someone is taken into custody when they do not have the proper travel documents? Jafar Panahi is an adult. He alone bore the responsibility to get reliable information and procure the necessary paperwork prior to his trip. It was not the film festival organisers' responsibility, it was not the United Airlines staffers' responsibliity, and there were certainly more reliable sources of the needed information than either of the above. (Especially since the festival staffers are in South America and the United employees were in Hong Kong. They are clearly not going to be experts on US Immigration policy.)
Panahi did not make a serious effort to verify that he was free to travel through the US without documents. Had he called a US embassy or INS office they could have told him how crucial it was for him -- especially travelling under an Iranian passport -- to have authorising paperwork. He could not be bothered, and he paid the consequence for that lack of care.
Now, yes, it's really nasty to be chained to a bench for ten hours. But is it inhuman as Panahi claims? It's custody in a limited space with limited personal to guard those who are being detained. It would be nice if there were nice plush chairs with gentle tethers instead of dirty cramped benches with shackles and chains. Panahi can go commiserate with Jennifer Lopez who dealt with a similar fate after the Club NY shooting. It isn't third world, and it isn't inhuman, it's the nature of detentional custody. He could have been put into a holding cell, behind bars, and forced to sit on a much filthier floor. I can't imagine the tone that his whinge would've taken on then.
And the crying Sri Lankan boy? Well, a lot of people cry when they've been caught doing something and have been detained by the authorities. "Everybody was moved." So what? Are heaven and earth supposed to move?
He refused to be fingerprinted and photographed. He prolonged his own ordeal by that refusal, which is in compliance with US law whether we like it or not. (And which is, as DiplomaticImmunity pointed out, a separate issue.) He was a foreign national from a rogue, enemy nation, lacking proper right of entrance and access (due to his own failure) who refused to cooperate with authorities. I'm not sure why we're supposed to feel badly for him at all.
posted by Dreama at 10:36 AM on May 30, 2001
Panahi did not make a serious effort to verify that he was free to travel through the US without documents. Had he called a US embassy or INS office they could have told him how crucial it was for him -- especially travelling under an Iranian passport -- to have authorising paperwork. He could not be bothered, and he paid the consequence for that lack of care.
Now, yes, it's really nasty to be chained to a bench for ten hours. But is it inhuman as Panahi claims? It's custody in a limited space with limited personal to guard those who are being detained. It would be nice if there were nice plush chairs with gentle tethers instead of dirty cramped benches with shackles and chains. Panahi can go commiserate with Jennifer Lopez who dealt with a similar fate after the Club NY shooting. It isn't third world, and it isn't inhuman, it's the nature of detentional custody. He could have been put into a holding cell, behind bars, and forced to sit on a much filthier floor. I can't imagine the tone that his whinge would've taken on then.
And the crying Sri Lankan boy? Well, a lot of people cry when they've been caught doing something and have been detained by the authorities. "Everybody was moved." So what? Are heaven and earth supposed to move?
He refused to be fingerprinted and photographed. He prolonged his own ordeal by that refusal, which is in compliance with US law whether we like it or not. (And which is, as DiplomaticImmunity pointed out, a separate issue.) He was a foreign national from a rogue, enemy nation, lacking proper right of entrance and access (due to his own failure) who refused to cooperate with authorities. I'm not sure why we're supposed to feel badly for him at all.
posted by Dreama at 10:36 AM on May 30, 2001
P.S.: Because of the Schengen-convention, europeans don't need any identification when travelling across borders inside the European Union. Thank you, EU!
Except that the EU doesn't have the US' constitutional protection on searches and seizures, so the local police can arrest and/or stop and or harass you--legally. I don't think any French or German police force will be sued any time soon for stopping "suspicious looking" motorists a la the New Jersey Turnpike debacle.
posted by ParisParamus at 10:40 AM on May 30, 2001
Except that the EU doesn't have the US' constitutional protection on searches and seizures, so the local police can arrest and/or stop and or harass you--legally. I don't think any French or German police force will be sued any time soon for stopping "suspicious looking" motorists a la the New Jersey Turnpike debacle.
posted by ParisParamus at 10:40 AM on May 30, 2001
Sorry our pervasive media shows you the bad stuff a lot quicker than it does in other countries
Nurse, the screens!
posted by Mocata at 10:43 AM on May 30, 2001
Nurse, the screens!
posted by Mocata at 10:43 AM on May 30, 2001
I think all you people who are so quick to dis' the United States are either self-hating, or ill-informed or hateful or just jealous. Sorry you weren't born here....But really, GROW THE F' UP!
Wow, paris - a bit paranoid are we? What makes one self-hating or hateful when they criticize their country? There is too much self-congratulating going on in this country, not enough serious criticism of what ails this place. Grow the f' up? Come on, you can do beter than that.
BTW - born and raised, and even had the chance to live abroad a few years. Try talking to the folks on the other end of "Great America's" stick, either in your local housing project, or the deserts of Iraq. See what they have to say.
posted by mapalm at 10:45 AM on May 30, 2001
Wow, paris - a bit paranoid are we? What makes one self-hating or hateful when they criticize their country? There is too much self-congratulating going on in this country, not enough serious criticism of what ails this place. Grow the f' up? Come on, you can do beter than that.
BTW - born and raised, and even had the chance to live abroad a few years. Try talking to the folks on the other end of "Great America's" stick, either in your local housing project, or the deserts of Iraq. See what they have to say.
posted by mapalm at 10:45 AM on May 30, 2001
Sorry our pervasive media shows you the bad stuff a lot quicker than it does in other countries.
Ahem. Panahi was on his way back from a festival celebrating one of his films; a film that shows more of the "bad stuff" of its own society than much of the "pervasive" mainstream media in the US. To the extent that it's banned in Iran.
The issue is a wider one, that applies equally to the UK's rush to incarcerate asylum-seekers and strip-search Asian tourists: why should those arrested on arrival in a foreign country be denied the basic rights within that country? (Particularly in situations where individuals don't have recourse to diplomatic assistance.) The powers of immigration officers would be frankly unacceptable if invoked by police officers, just as the powers of surveillance agencies used against foreigners could never be openly directed towards citizens.
(raysmj: I was responding to aaron's comment on the removal of border controls in the EU.)
posted by holgate at 10:49 AM on May 30, 2001
Ahem. Panahi was on his way back from a festival celebrating one of his films; a film that shows more of the "bad stuff" of its own society than much of the "pervasive" mainstream media in the US. To the extent that it's banned in Iran.
The issue is a wider one, that applies equally to the UK's rush to incarcerate asylum-seekers and strip-search Asian tourists: why should those arrested on arrival in a foreign country be denied the basic rights within that country? (Particularly in situations where individuals don't have recourse to diplomatic assistance.) The powers of immigration officers would be frankly unacceptable if invoked by police officers, just as the powers of surveillance agencies used against foreigners could never be openly directed towards citizens.
(raysmj: I was responding to aaron's comment on the removal of border controls in the EU.)
posted by holgate at 10:49 AM on May 30, 2001
The same shit happens to me every time I cross the New Hampshire state border.
posted by dong_resin at 11:00 AM on May 31, 2001
posted by dong_resin at 11:00 AM on May 31, 2001
United States: If we don't like your country, you don't get any basic human rights.
posted by adnan at 7:12 PM on May 31, 2001
posted by adnan at 7:12 PM on May 31, 2001
My $0.02:
His country's government finances terrorism against our country. It is reasonable for the US to be paranoid. Unfortunately, sometimes innocent people get screwed. But blame the Iranian government, not the US.
posted by ktheory at 10:11 PM on May 31, 2001
His country's government finances terrorism against our country. It is reasonable for the US to be paranoid. Unfortunately, sometimes innocent people get screwed. But blame the Iranian government, not the US.
posted by ktheory at 10:11 PM on May 31, 2001
Can you please pass me any url related to Iran funding terrorism against the United States?
oh, you can't find one?
maybe it's because you are mixing up Afganistan with Iran.
Just because Iran happens to near the Middle East, doesn't make it terrorist.
posted by adnan at 10:37 PM on May 31, 2001
oh, you can't find one?
maybe it's because you are mixing up Afganistan with Iran.
Just because Iran happens to near the Middle East, doesn't make it terrorist.
posted by adnan at 10:37 PM on May 31, 2001
Thanks DiplomaticImmunity, that's a reasonable argument. I know that it's the reality of the situation but really I think that surely in this day and age an international airport really should be treated as just that, international.
Just like the jet that you came in on doesn't require a visa, I think you shouldn't even have to think about what country your wasting your life in waiting for that friggin' connection. Once you pass through immigration and customs, well, that's a different matter.
Of course I'm dreaming. Unfortunately the United States is a major transit point for travellers going from Asia to Europe and back. This gives the US government significant clout when it comes to making travel difficult for people that they think they don't like. This is more about harrassment rather than stopping terrorism.
Next time Panahi should try flying Malaysia Airlines.
posted by lagado at 11:29 PM on May 31, 2001
Just like the jet that you came in on doesn't require a visa, I think you shouldn't even have to think about what country your wasting your life in waiting for that friggin' connection. Once you pass through immigration and customs, well, that's a different matter.
Of course I'm dreaming. Unfortunately the United States is a major transit point for travellers going from Asia to Europe and back. This gives the US government significant clout when it comes to making travel difficult for people that they think they don't like. This is more about harrassment rather than stopping terrorism.
Next time Panahi should try flying Malaysia Airlines.
posted by lagado at 11:29 PM on May 31, 2001
The Klingons will eventually sign a truce with the Federation. Then the Klingons will not only be able to tour the Federation's ships but will help pilot them as well! One Earth all. . .One fucking Earth!
Regardless of this man's homeland, he is still that; a man with a suitcase, a laptop, a wallet with pictures of his children in it and a boarding pass he bought in this wonderful global economy of ours.
US law is provincial, primitive and racist.
posted by crasspastor at 11:39 PM on May 31, 2001
Regardless of this man's homeland, he is still that; a man with a suitcase, a laptop, a wallet with pictures of his children in it and a boarding pass he bought in this wonderful global economy of ours.
US law is provincial, primitive and racist.
posted by crasspastor at 11:39 PM on May 31, 2001
Btw, any of you ever tried getting a visa from the outside?
I did. I had to fill out a form which said that I was not and have never been a member of the Nazi Party of Germany.
(of course they didn't know about me being a communist, tiaka ;-j)
posted by lagado at 11:45 PM on May 31, 2001
I did. I had to fill out a form which said that I was not and have never been a member of the Nazi Party of Germany.
(of course they didn't know about me being a communist, tiaka ;-j)
posted by lagado at 11:45 PM on May 31, 2001
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You aren't the only one, Jafar. Not by a long shot.
posted by Ezrael at 3:50 AM on May 30, 2001