Jiverly Wong, Shooting The People
April 6, 2009 7:03 PM Subscribe
Because undercover cop gave me a lot of ass. Link goes to the hand-written letter of the guy who shot up the Immigration services office in Binghamton, NY.
This post was deleted for the following reason: there is a shooting thread open. This is a link to a PDF about a current event, whcih could have been part of a post for metafilter but is not a good post for metafilter. LOLCRAZIES and "fuck the cops" are not really great starting points. -- jessamyn
Why thank you, I think I shall flip over to the second page.
posted by aerotive at 7:09 PM on April 6, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by aerotive at 7:09 PM on April 6, 2009 [6 favorites]
we did just have a long thread about the spate of shootings, fwiw this may be better over there.
posted by edgeways at 7:09 PM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by edgeways at 7:09 PM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
I would have liked a news link on the shooting, since I had to look it up separately just to know what this is about. Let's not assume constant news watching on the part of all MeFites.
Anyways, rather paranoid this fellow was, and rather strange to read was his final message.
posted by KingoftheWhales at 7:10 PM on April 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
Anyways, rather paranoid this fellow was, and rather strange to read was his final message.
posted by KingoftheWhales at 7:10 PM on April 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
We one received a letter like this at my place of employment in the late 90s, the upshot being that the letter writer was convinced that my firm had him in a panopticon of surveillance along with the FBI and we were framing them for their repeated (and according to the writer, unintential) advances upon the young people in the local area.
I never knew what came of that letter or the others that went with it. I watched for news of the writers fate, but it never came.
How did he know about our Panopticon technology?
As for this letter; I have no idea how this person obtained a firearm; and if someone who is so obviously under the blanket of crazy could get one... well, damn.
posted by NiteMayr at 7:13 PM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
I never knew what came of that letter or the others that went with it. I watched for news of the writers fate, but it never came.
How did he know about our Panopticon technology?
As for this letter; I have no idea how this person obtained a firearm; and if someone who is so obviously under the blanket of crazy could get one... well, damn.
posted by NiteMayr at 7:13 PM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that reads like classic paranoid schizophrenia, alright. Undercover cops everywhere, always plagueing him. I also sounds like sections were translated by babelfish.
posted by longsleeves at 7:15 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by longsleeves at 7:15 PM on April 6, 2009
Man. What a fucked up society we live in when we give (or make available, whatever makes it more palatable) guns to people this troubled.
It just keeps repeating itself, huh?
posted by deliquescent at 7:16 PM on April 6, 2009
It just keeps repeating itself, huh?
posted by deliquescent at 7:16 PM on April 6, 2009
Sometimes word salad + accent and bad english sound a little alike. I assume someone behind the counter thought they just had no idea what he was saying. He might also have been more lucid at other times.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 7:17 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by a robot made out of meat at 7:17 PM on April 6, 2009
The letter, neatly written in capital letters, ends with: ''And you have a nice day.''
posted by ornate insect at 7:20 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by ornate insect at 7:20 PM on April 6, 2009
Fucking loser, the shooter, not the cop. Anyone who sympathizes even a little with scum like that is just as big a loser. He should have just killed himself like the poor kid in orthogonality's link. A pox on his family.
posted by caddis at 7:21 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by caddis at 7:21 PM on April 6, 2009
He should have just killed himself
Or he should have been properly diagnosed as suffering from severe mental health issues, and given free medical care and attention--possibly including medicine. Oh and never allowed to purchase or obtain a firearm.
posted by ornate insect at 7:24 PM on April 6, 2009 [30 favorites]
Or he should have been properly diagnosed as suffering from severe mental health issues, and given free medical care and attention--possibly including medicine. Oh and never allowed to purchase or obtain a firearm.
posted by ornate insect at 7:24 PM on April 6, 2009 [30 favorites]
it does make the whole thing a whole lot more understandable. the man was clearly ill.
posted by Addiction at 7:24 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by Addiction at 7:24 PM on April 6, 2009
Shit if he hadn't said something I was gonna go try and continue his letter somewhere else.
posted by autodidact at 7:26 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by autodidact at 7:26 PM on April 6, 2009
Or he should have been properly diagnosed as suffering from severe mental health issues, and given free medical care and attention--possibly including medicine. Oh and never allowed to purchase or obtain a firearm.
communiss
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:31 PM on April 6, 2009
communiss
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:31 PM on April 6, 2009
Fucking loser, the shooter, not the cop. Anyone who sympathizes even a little with scum like that is just as big a loser. He should have just killed himself like the poor kid in orthogonality's link. A pox on his family
Yeah, it is clearly his family's fault.
Or maybe a culture that fetishizies violence and marginalizies those who don't fit in has something to do with it.
posted by vrakatar at 7:36 PM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yeah, it is clearly his family's fault.
Or maybe a culture that fetishizies violence and marginalizies those who don't fit in has something to do with it.
posted by vrakatar at 7:36 PM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
A pox on his family.
While he's clearly BATSHIT INSANE, what does his family have to do with it? Blaming an arbitrary if tangentially related group of people is not going to help anyone or anything.
posted by WalterMitty at 7:36 PM on April 6, 2009
While he's clearly BATSHIT INSANE, what does his family have to do with it? Blaming an arbitrary if tangentially related group of people is not going to help anyone or anything.
posted by WalterMitty at 7:36 PM on April 6, 2009
It's sad to me that this could have all been prevented with better literacy for everybody of every age. It's sadder still that this man was forced to carry the mark of abuse that he suffered under the hands of a male relative or family friend.
posted by parmanparman at 7:37 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by parmanparman at 7:37 PM on April 6, 2009
Make that cursing, not blaming.
posted by WalterMitty at 7:38 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by WalterMitty at 7:38 PM on April 6, 2009
It's sad to me that this could have all been prevented with better literacy for everybody of every age. It's sadder still that this man was forced to carry the mark of abuse that he suffered under the hands of a male relative or family friend.
What?
posted by rdr at 7:40 PM on April 6, 2009
What?
posted by rdr at 7:40 PM on April 6, 2009
A quick comment before I go offline. The guy was probably mentally ill. I don't see what literacy has to do with his actions and I don't get where abuse comes into it.
posted by rdr at 7:42 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by rdr at 7:42 PM on April 6, 2009
Wouldn't surprise me if about 60% of the stuff in his letter was true, though.
posted by R_Nebblesworth at 7:55 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by R_Nebblesworth at 7:55 PM on April 6, 2009
A quick comment before I go offline. The guy was probably mentally ill. I don't see what literacy has to do with his actions and I don't get where abuse comes into it.
Are you kidding me? Do you really not see it? You must not be able to read! You must not be able to form emotion of for words on a page. I am saddened by that because that should not be a privilege.
But tell me what else would a man like this be suffering from if it had not be the result of being systematically abused as a child by a man who either dresses like or pretends he's a cop. This bastard did that to him 13 times. He was completely sheltered and always was forced to live as an adult at home. He was very protective and owned guns because he felt people were going to hurt him. He had been crying out for years at and to cops because he feared they were going to abuse him in ways that no one should have to go through.
This does not change the fact that he killed 14 people. There are so many lives left uninhabited. I am so sad it happened to a great place like Binghampton. If only the university became a center for undergrad civic non-profit and business engagement.
If you cannot see the fear and anger and sadness on that suicide note - it's not a "letter" - I do not know what to say to you. I do not know if you will even rise up from lurking again to make a reply to me. You are a coward and you don't know how to read.
posted by parmanparman at 7:58 PM on April 6, 2009
Are you kidding me? Do you really not see it? You must not be able to read! You must not be able to form emotion of for words on a page. I am saddened by that because that should not be a privilege.
But tell me what else would a man like this be suffering from if it had not be the result of being systematically abused as a child by a man who either dresses like or pretends he's a cop. This bastard did that to him 13 times. He was completely sheltered and always was forced to live as an adult at home. He was very protective and owned guns because he felt people were going to hurt him. He had been crying out for years at and to cops because he feared they were going to abuse him in ways that no one should have to go through.
This does not change the fact that he killed 14 people. There are so many lives left uninhabited. I am so sad it happened to a great place like Binghampton. If only the university became a center for undergrad civic non-profit and business engagement.
If you cannot see the fear and anger and sadness on that suicide note - it's not a "letter" - I do not know what to say to you. I do not know if you will even rise up from lurking again to make a reply to me. You are a coward and you don't know how to read.
posted by parmanparman at 7:58 PM on April 6, 2009
Wow
posted by delmoi at 7:58 PM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by delmoi at 7:58 PM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Or he should have been properly diagnosed as suffering from severe mental health issues, and given free medical care and attention--possibly including medicine. Oh and never allowed to purchase or obtain a firearm.
The latter would likely, though not guaranteed, have happened had the former happened. (The federal background check includes mental health databases, however these are not always accurate and up to date). For example, in the VA Tech shooting, Cho would have not been able to purchase guns had his previous mental health stay (in 2005) been properly entered into the database. So on the firearms side of things, the law already does this -- assuming you're diagnosed, and assuming proper policy is followed by the authorities. Lots of cleanup / enforcement / review needed to make the system better. The mental health side of the equation is much more murky.
posted by wildcrdj at 8:03 PM on April 6, 2009
The latter would likely, though not guaranteed, have happened had the former happened. (The federal background check includes mental health databases, however these are not always accurate and up to date). For example, in the VA Tech shooting, Cho would have not been able to purchase guns had his previous mental health stay (in 2005) been properly entered into the database. So on the firearms side of things, the law already does this -- assuming you're diagnosed, and assuming proper policy is followed by the authorities. Lots of cleanup / enforcement / review needed to make the system better. The mental health side of the equation is much more murky.
posted by wildcrdj at 8:03 PM on April 6, 2009
If that fruitcake had been locked up in a loony bin he wouldn't have been able to shoot anyone.
posted by caddis at 8:05 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by caddis at 8:05 PM on April 6, 2009
Regarding the question of abuse: it certainly seems possible he was physically or sexually abused as a child or young man, but it also seems possible he was paranoid and disturbed enough to have simply imagined he was abused. Until we have more evidence either way, however, it remains speculation.
I don't see a lot of biographical information, other than very thin and sketchy bits of info, available in the news yet about Wong--but then again I have not been following the story at all. I don't even know if Wong lived alone or has any immediate family, etc.
I do think there's a good chance that anyone who commits an act of random violence like a shooting spree (i.e. Columbine or Va. Tech, etc.) is clinically mentally ill, and certainly this guy's letter, if it's authentic, seems proof positive in this case of severe mental illness.
posted by ornate insect at 8:11 PM on April 6, 2009
I don't see a lot of biographical information, other than very thin and sketchy bits of info, available in the news yet about Wong--but then again I have not been following the story at all. I don't even know if Wong lived alone or has any immediate family, etc.
I do think there's a good chance that anyone who commits an act of random violence like a shooting spree (i.e. Columbine or Va. Tech, etc.) is clinically mentally ill, and certainly this guy's letter, if it's authentic, seems proof positive in this case of severe mental illness.
posted by ornate insect at 8:11 PM on April 6, 2009
If that's really from him, then it's a goddamn tragedy that this man disintegrated to that state and was able to commit such horrors. Do any of us know yet whether he was treated, or whether his family tried to get him help, or whether this was a recent psychotic break? I'm furious that this guy was able to get a gun, but it's entirely possible that he had never been formally diagnosed. Or there really was some criminal or near-criminal neglect, and this was a preventable tragedy.
I knew somebody years ago, a genial, charming eccentric who was also an incredibly talented painter and sculptor. The eccentricity turned dark when he had his first psychotic break a few months after he turned 19. He was treated and released, got along for a while, but was in and out of hospitals for the next few years. He was finally charged with attempted murder, found not criminally responsible, and committed to a secure mental health hospital. He committed suicide several years later.
That goddamn disease hit him full blast and despite all his family did, despite all his doctors' efforts, there was nothing they could do to save him. We don't know yet if anyone tried to save Jiverly Wong, or if he could even have been saved. But saving him could have meant also saving 13 innocent people.
posted by rosebuddy at 8:13 PM on April 6, 2009
I knew somebody years ago, a genial, charming eccentric who was also an incredibly talented painter and sculptor. The eccentricity turned dark when he had his first psychotic break a few months after he turned 19. He was treated and released, got along for a while, but was in and out of hospitals for the next few years. He was finally charged with attempted murder, found not criminally responsible, and committed to a secure mental health hospital. He committed suicide several years later.
That goddamn disease hit him full blast and despite all his family did, despite all his doctors' efforts, there was nothing they could do to save him. We don't know yet if anyone tried to save Jiverly Wong, or if he could even have been saved. But saving him could have meant also saving 13 innocent people.
posted by rosebuddy at 8:13 PM on April 6, 2009
The mental health side of the equation is much more murky.
I agree. I don't think we can still even reach the people who would do this crime now. We have to take action in childhood now to prevents things like this happening.
posted by parmanparman at 8:14 PM on April 6, 2009
I agree. I don't think we can still even reach the people who would do this crime now. We have to take action in childhood now to prevents things like this happening.
posted by parmanparman at 8:14 PM on April 6, 2009
Date March_18_ 2009
dog carcass in alley
this morning, tire tread
on burst stomach. this
city is afraid of me.
i have seen its
true face
posted by Sphinx at 8:14 PM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
dog carcass in alley
this morning, tire tread
on burst stomach. this
city is afraid of me.
i have seen its
true face
posted by Sphinx at 8:14 PM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Cop give me ass, I shooting the people. WHY NO?
posted by turgid dahlia at 8:14 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by turgid dahlia at 8:14 PM on April 6, 2009
This reads like a pretty classic presentation of someone with paranoid schizophrenia. It's nothing to do with abuse, immigration, childhood experiences, or bad English. It's everything to do with mental illness that was untreated. Don't look for zebras; this one's horses. Once you read enough of these things, their similarity stands out boldly.
posted by Miko at 8:15 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by Miko at 8:15 PM on April 6, 2009
We have to take action in childhood now to prevents things like this happening.
If it's schizophrenia, there's not a lot you can do in childhood to prevent it. It usually manifests in late adolescence through early adulthood, and it can happen to people of all kinds of childhoods. It's biological.
posted by Miko at 8:16 PM on April 6, 2009
If it's schizophrenia, there's not a lot you can do in childhood to prevent it. It usually manifests in late adolescence through early adulthood, and it can happen to people of all kinds of childhoods. It's biological.
posted by Miko at 8:16 PM on April 6, 2009
Its schizophrenia or something close to it mixed with an inability to accept any blame for any of his actions, the cop seems to be the cause of all of his problems but never his own fault, i can definetly see this mentality of his making it seem perfectly clear to shoot up an immigration services office. Everyone needs to see someone sometime just to talk, and then the nutters should be collared and closely followed and monitored.
posted by Del Far at 8:26 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by Del Far at 8:26 PM on April 6, 2009
If you think regular health care in America is a disaster, mental health care (despite the law) is even worse. We're effectively jailing a lot of the mentally ill, rather than treating them.
posted by ornate insect at 8:27 PM on April 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by ornate insect at 8:27 PM on April 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
It's obviously sad how this turned out, but in my experience these kinds of communiques aren't that uncommon. In the federal courthouse where I worked, we got one complaint against NBC about Dan Rather telling the plaintiff's neighbor's kids to spread rumors about them while waiting for the school bus in the mornings. There was another lawsuit in which the plaintiff submitted random photographs of her house along with a block of wood that served no apparent purpose. Then there was the one who sued their landlord for $900,000,000,000,000.00 for breaking into their apartment and rearranging the furniture whenever they left the building.
I'm really not sure how we can call ourselves a decent society when people with these forms of debilitating mental illness are left to suffer with basically no support or other resources available to them. Before Reagan's deinstitutionalization we had the abuses documented in the Titicut Follies, and now we posture like we've moved beyond those problems because we just let these people die on the streets or, if they survive, languish in a morass of distorted perceptions and warped beliefs that lead to these kinds of bizarre manifestos and, tragically, homicides like the one in Binghamton.
Meaningful support for people with serious mental illness would, in my opinion, do far more to prevent these horrific rampages than funneling more money into arming police departments to the teeth and setting them loose.
posted by Law Talkin' Guy at 8:31 PM on April 6, 2009 [4 favorites]
I'm really not sure how we can call ourselves a decent society when people with these forms of debilitating mental illness are left to suffer with basically no support or other resources available to them. Before Reagan's deinstitutionalization we had the abuses documented in the Titicut Follies, and now we posture like we've moved beyond those problems because we just let these people die on the streets or, if they survive, languish in a morass of distorted perceptions and warped beliefs that lead to these kinds of bizarre manifestos and, tragically, homicides like the one in Binghamton.
Meaningful support for people with serious mental illness would, in my opinion, do far more to prevent these horrific rampages than funneling more money into arming police departments to the teeth and setting them loose.
posted by Law Talkin' Guy at 8:31 PM on April 6, 2009 [4 favorites]
Caddis--
Have you ever had a loved one suffer from schizophrenia, or manic depression? Obviously not. (Failure of empathy, BTW, is symptomatic of a variety of pathological personality disorders.) But OK, let's follow your logic through. Why wasn't that fruitcake locked up, anyway? Apparently, his mental illness was undiagnosed and untreated. It went unnoticed, until he obtained a firearm and murdered people. So what sort of public policy would you recommend, to avoid incidents like this from happening in the future?
posted by flotson at 8:32 PM on April 6, 2009
Have you ever had a loved one suffer from schizophrenia, or manic depression? Obviously not. (Failure of empathy, BTW, is symptomatic of a variety of pathological personality disorders.) But OK, let's follow your logic through. Why wasn't that fruitcake locked up, anyway? Apparently, his mental illness was undiagnosed and untreated. It went unnoticed, until he obtained a firearm and murdered people. So what sort of public policy would you recommend, to avoid incidents like this from happening in the future?
posted by flotson at 8:32 PM on April 6, 2009
Having worked in city government myself, I would agree with Law Talkin' Guy that these types of missives are, sadly, not as out of the ordinary as it might seem.
posted by blucevalo at 8:39 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by blucevalo at 8:39 PM on April 6, 2009
Fucking loser, the shooter, not the cop. Anyone who sympathizes even a little with scum like that is just as big a loser.
That's an empirical claim that's falsifiable, and I'll falsify it for you.
I sympathize a little with scum like that.
I have never killed anyone, whereas he has killed several people who never harmed him.
Therefore, I must be less of a loser than he was. QED.
Sorry not to join you at Camp Killthefucker, where we dream up ever more inventive and horrible things we'd do to this guy if we were in a room with him. If he weren't, you know, dead, and nearly as pitiable as his victims in his apparent sickness.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:39 PM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
That's an empirical claim that's falsifiable, and I'll falsify it for you.
I sympathize a little with scum like that.
I have never killed anyone, whereas he has killed several people who never harmed him.
Therefore, I must be less of a loser than he was. QED.
Sorry not to join you at Camp Killthefucker, where we dream up ever more inventive and horrible things we'd do to this guy if we were in a room with him. If he weren't, you know, dead, and nearly as pitiable as his victims in his apparent sickness.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:39 PM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
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