The Ictíneo
May 5, 2009 5:23 AM Subscribe
"Few Victorian inventions have the grace and charm of the Ictíneo, the series of two wooden submarines built by Narcís Monturiol i Estarrol in the second half of the nineteenth century ... The thinking at the time was that it was almost impossible to run a steam engine underwater because it would use up all the oxygen and convert the inside of the ship into an oven. To overcome this, Monturiol invented a chemical furnace based on a reaction between potassium chlorate, zinc and manganese dioxide - a process that produced enough heat to boil water to run the steam engine. To complement this ingenuity, the reaction gave off oxygen as a by-product ... While his competitors devised submarines for military purposes, Monturiol had alternative ambitions. The man was a communist, a revolutionary and a utopian who regarded his invention as a way of improving the life of the working class ... "
Wow, it looks awesome.
it would use up all the oxygen
Which led me to wonder how much oxygen is in seawater. The percentage of oxygen in seawater is actually higher than that in air, but that's among all gases present, which is obviously (?) lower in absolute numbers in the water.
Whereas in air about one in five molecules is oxygen, in sea water this is only about 4 in every thousand million water molecules.
And yet fish survive. I guess there's a lot more plant than animal mass in the ocean relative to the proportion on land? Also, fish don't have to spend as much oxygen on maintaining body temp.
Do any human inventions extract oxygen from seawater, for combustion or otherwise? Could Monturiol, using Victorian technology, have built such a device?
posted by DU at 5:47 AM on May 5, 2009
it would use up all the oxygen
Which led me to wonder how much oxygen is in seawater. The percentage of oxygen in seawater is actually higher than that in air, but that's among all gases present, which is obviously (?) lower in absolute numbers in the water.
Whereas in air about one in five molecules is oxygen, in sea water this is only about 4 in every thousand million water molecules.
And yet fish survive. I guess there's a lot more plant than animal mass in the ocean relative to the proportion on land? Also, fish don't have to spend as much oxygen on maintaining body temp.
Do any human inventions extract oxygen from seawater, for combustion or otherwise? Could Monturiol, using Victorian technology, have built such a device?
posted by DU at 5:47 AM on May 5, 2009
Wasn't this process also used for the spaceship in Jules Verne in From the Earth to the Moon? I remember reading it back in junior high and thinking that he was just making that part up.
posted by cimbrog at 5:49 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by cimbrog at 5:49 AM on May 5, 2009
Wow...a steampunk story on the blue that didn't first come from BB. Oh, wait...the sub is actual century-old tech, and not a contemporary fashion affectation.
Cool sub. Must've been ripe inside that thing after awhile, though.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:51 AM on May 5, 2009
Cool sub. Must've been ripe inside that thing after awhile, though.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:51 AM on May 5, 2009
Must've been ripe inside that thing after awhile, though.
Probably smelled like seamen.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:14 AM on May 5, 2009
Probably smelled like seamen.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:14 AM on May 5, 2009
Cool story! I was trying to come up with details about other wooden submarines I remember reading about. I think the British mathemetician, William Bourne, is credited with coming up with the idea in 1578. However it was Dutchman, Cornelis Drebbel , who built the first wooden submarine from about 1620. It was propelled by oars.
A TV program in the series "Building the Impossible" (torrent) looked at re-creating this submarine.
posted by rongorongo at 6:27 AM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
A TV program in the series "Building the Impossible" (torrent) looked at re-creating this submarine.
posted by rongorongo at 6:27 AM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Specifically here is a page describing the stages of the re-construction of the Drebbel's submarine.
posted by rongorongo at 6:30 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by rongorongo at 6:30 AM on May 5, 2009
Great story. If the guy hadn't been from Spain, still basically stuck in the Middle Ages, he might have become rich and famous. And what a gorgeous object! Thanks for the post.
posted by languagehat at 6:31 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by languagehat at 6:31 AM on May 5, 2009
Amazing - just amazing!
posted by mightshould at 6:35 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by mightshould at 6:35 AM on May 5, 2009
Whoa, thanks for the tip on Building the Impossible. These are my favoritest kind of show evar!
posted by DU at 6:36 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by DU at 6:36 AM on May 5, 2009
Makes me wonder if a steam powered submarine could do a silent dive, sleep for a while, and then engage the engines with steam power generated by uncovering asbestos enclosed hot rocks.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:51 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:51 AM on May 5, 2009
Truly wonderful piece of Catalonian steampunk - as a child, I always dreamed of sailing off in a submarine of my very own...
posted by aeshnid at 6:52 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by aeshnid at 6:52 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
DU: Do any human inventions extract oxygen from seawater, for combustion or otherwise? Could Monturiol, using Victorian technology, have built such a device?
I could have sworn that Verne hit on this in 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea and that it was electrolysis, but I just checked an e-text and didn't see any mention of it. Only the usual methods: chemical production of O2 and periodic surfacing to replenish the air supply.
Although the cell was large, we had evidently consumed a great part of the oxygen that it contained. Indeed, each man consumes, in one hour, the oxygen contained in more than 176 pints of air, and this air, charged (as then) with a nearly equal quantity of carbonic acid, becomes unbreathable.
It became necessary to renew the atmosphere of our prison, and no doubt the whole in the submarine boat. That gave rise to a question in my mind. How would the commander of this floating dwelling-place proceed? Would he obtain air by chemical means, in getting by heat the oxygen contained in chlorate of potash, and in absorbing carbonic acid by caustic potash? Or--a more convenient, economical, and consequently more probable alternative--would he be satisfied to rise and take breath at the surface of the water, like a whale, and so renew for twenty-four hours the atmospheric provision?
In fact, I was already obliged to increase my respirations to eke out of this cell the little oxygen it contained, when suddenly I was refreshed by a current of pure air, and perfumed with saline emanations. It was an invigorating sea breeze, charged with iodine. I opened my mouth wide, and my lungs saturated themselves with fresh particles.
You have to love Verne. Especially when describing the underwater air-powered-electro-bullets used by Capt. Nemo and company:
"Because the balls sent by this gun are not ordinary balls, but little cases of glass. These glass cases are covered with a case of steel, and weighted with a pellet of lead; they are real Leyden bottles, into which the electricity is forced to a very high tension. With the slightest shock they are discharged, and the animal, however strong it may be, falls dead. I must tell you that these cases are size number four, and that the charge for an ordinary gun would be ten."
posted by jquinby at 6:53 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I could have sworn that Verne hit on this in 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea and that it was electrolysis, but I just checked an e-text and didn't see any mention of it. Only the usual methods: chemical production of O2 and periodic surfacing to replenish the air supply.
Although the cell was large, we had evidently consumed a great part of the oxygen that it contained. Indeed, each man consumes, in one hour, the oxygen contained in more than 176 pints of air, and this air, charged (as then) with a nearly equal quantity of carbonic acid, becomes unbreathable.
It became necessary to renew the atmosphere of our prison, and no doubt the whole in the submarine boat. That gave rise to a question in my mind. How would the commander of this floating dwelling-place proceed? Would he obtain air by chemical means, in getting by heat the oxygen contained in chlorate of potash, and in absorbing carbonic acid by caustic potash? Or--a more convenient, economical, and consequently more probable alternative--would he be satisfied to rise and take breath at the surface of the water, like a whale, and so renew for twenty-four hours the atmospheric provision?
In fact, I was already obliged to increase my respirations to eke out of this cell the little oxygen it contained, when suddenly I was refreshed by a current of pure air, and perfumed with saline emanations. It was an invigorating sea breeze, charged with iodine. I opened my mouth wide, and my lungs saturated themselves with fresh particles.
You have to love Verne. Especially when describing the underwater air-powered-electro-bullets used by Capt. Nemo and company:
"Because the balls sent by this gun are not ordinary balls, but little cases of glass. These glass cases are covered with a case of steel, and weighted with a pellet of lead; they are real Leyden bottles, into which the electricity is forced to a very high tension. With the slightest shock they are discharged, and the animal, however strong it may be, falls dead. I must tell you that these cases are size number four, and that the charge for an ordinary gun would be ten."
posted by jquinby at 6:53 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Truly wonderful piece of Catalonian steampunk - as a child, I always dreamed of sailing off in a submarine of my very own...OMG! As I child of the Fifties I lusted for that very item. And there was a spaceship variation as well. The closest I ever came was a cardboard helmet with a one-way view port ...
posted by jim in austin at 8:20 AM on May 5, 2009
Quoting the first link re: O2 from seawater...no need:
"Monturiol invented a chemical furnace based on a reaction between potassium chlorate, zinc and manganese dioxide - a process that produced enough heat to boil water to run the steam engine. To complement this ingenuity, the reaction gave off oxygen as a by-product."
If only it could have used man-stink as a catalyst, and produced righteous bud as a waste product.
posted by sfts2 at 8:48 AM on May 5, 2009
"Monturiol invented a chemical furnace based on a reaction between potassium chlorate, zinc and manganese dioxide - a process that produced enough heat to boil water to run the steam engine. To complement this ingenuity, the reaction gave off oxygen as a by-product."
If only it could have used man-stink as a catalyst, and produced righteous bud as a waste product.
posted by sfts2 at 8:48 AM on May 5, 2009
Right, but every oxygen atom you carry with you is a fuel atom you can't carry with you.
posted by DU at 9:15 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by DU at 9:15 AM on May 5, 2009
Wow, fascinating. Also being half Catalan, this makes me very happy.
posted by ob at 9:39 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by ob at 9:39 AM on May 5, 2009
In 1868, shortly after its launch, the groundbreaking Ictíneo II was seized by the shipyard and scrapped, together with her predecessor. The reason? Monturiol could not pay the bills.
Man I want to cry now and I didn't even build the things. With 20/20 hindsight it's totally amazing he couldn't get funding.
posted by Mitheral at 9:44 AM on May 5, 2009
Man I want to cry now and I didn't even build the things. With 20/20 hindsight it's totally amazing he couldn't get funding.
posted by Mitheral at 9:44 AM on May 5, 2009
I'm wondering if his philosophy got in the way of dealing with governments, which I would be surprised if they wouldn't want to weaponize the thing.
posted by sfts2 at 9:46 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by sfts2 at 9:46 AM on May 5, 2009
If the guy hadn't been from Spain, still basically stuck in the Middle Ages, he might have become rich and famous.
Well, that's rather unfair both with Spain and the Middle Ages. By the XVIII century Spain was a major world power with no shortage of skilled technicians. However, it then went on to have a godawful XIX century, with two invasions, three civil wars, countless foreign and colonial conflicts (mostly defeats), even more numerous insurrections and palace coups, an almost comically evil king, his meddling, nymphomaniac daughter, prone to religious mania and married to a gay consort, and two well-meaning, but thoroughly unwelcome foreign monarchs.
Nevertheless, Monturiol wasn't the only Spanish XIX century pioneer submariner: two decades later he was followed by the rather less idealistic Isaac Peral, whose own electrically-powered, torpedo-launching submarine arguably had a much bigger impact on later submarine development. However, while Peral succeeded in getting an order from the Spanish Navy, it was then scuppered by a squabble about which shipyard should build it. One of my favourite alt.history scenarios is what would have happened if in 1898 the Spanish Caribbean Squadron had had a few Peral submarines at hand.
posted by Skeptic at 12:08 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well, that's rather unfair both with Spain and the Middle Ages. By the XVIII century Spain was a major world power with no shortage of skilled technicians. However, it then went on to have a godawful XIX century, with two invasions, three civil wars, countless foreign and colonial conflicts (mostly defeats), even more numerous insurrections and palace coups, an almost comically evil king, his meddling, nymphomaniac daughter, prone to religious mania and married to a gay consort, and two well-meaning, but thoroughly unwelcome foreign monarchs.
Nevertheless, Monturiol wasn't the only Spanish XIX century pioneer submariner: two decades later he was followed by the rather less idealistic Isaac Peral, whose own electrically-powered, torpedo-launching submarine arguably had a much bigger impact on later submarine development. However, while Peral succeeded in getting an order from the Spanish Navy, it was then scuppered by a squabble about which shipyard should build it. One of my favourite alt.history scenarios is what would have happened if in 1898 the Spanish Caribbean Squadron had had a few Peral submarines at hand.
posted by Skeptic at 12:08 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Great post, and the whole Low-Tech Magazine site is interesting.
posted by Harald74 at 12:37 AM on May 6, 2009
posted by Harald74 at 12:37 AM on May 6, 2009
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