And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
December 21, 2009 1:42 AM Subscribe
"In August Sweden’s largest daily newspaper published an article containing grisly evidence suggesting that Israel had been taking Palestinian internal organs." The article was widely condemned as a vile and baseless antisemitic slur, "hate porn", "nothing but a modern version of medieval Jewish blood-libel myths.". Israel's "Government Press Office director Danny Siman told Army Radio that the anti-Israel article was not surprising and that the author was known for his anti-Semitic views." In Commentary Jonathan Tobin asked,
What does it say about a country when one of its leading newspapers deems a wild blood libel against Israel and Jews worthy of publication? [....] What must be understood is that this episode would not be possible outside the context of anti-Israel propaganda that permeates Europe.
Today, the Associated Press reports that "Israel has admitted that in the 1990s, its forensic pathologists harvested organs from dead bodies, including Palestinians, without permission of their families."
More on Mondoweiss: "I challenged Haaretz writers on the organ-harvesting story last summer".
I have no dog in this race. Orthogonality is, beyond troutfishing who left us, my favorite political poster and his post was yanked. He excites my brain on a regular basis. This is my little holiday return gift. I am reposting it for him. It's late. When I wake up I will read the links. I may not even be happy with them, but publication is prefered to repression.
I have no dog in this race. Orthogonality is, beyond troutfishing who left us, my favorite political poster and his post was yanked. He excites my brain on a regular basis. This is my little holiday return gift. I am reposting it for him. It's late. When I wake up I will read the links. I may not even be happy with them, but publication is prefered to repression.
This post was deleted for the following reason: This is a bad idea to "gift" to metafilter unread. -- mathowie
Your gift to ortho was a second deleted thread? Doesn't sound like a very good gift to me.
posted by secret about box at 1:50 AM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by secret about box at 1:50 AM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
Could have done without the editorial.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:52 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:52 AM on December 21, 2009
You know who else represses orthogonality?
Non-euclidean geometry.
posted by qvantamon at 1:55 AM on December 21, 2009 [23 favorites]
Non-euclidean geometry.
posted by qvantamon at 1:55 AM on December 21, 2009 [23 favorites]
Wow. Bet this thread gets deleted before I wake up tomorrow.
posted by Ted Walther at 1:58 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by Ted Walther at 1:58 AM on December 21, 2009
Yo MetaFilter, I'm happy for you and I'mma let you finish, but Orthogonality had the best inflammatory Israel post of all time. OF ALL TIME.
posted by stavrogin at 1:58 AM on December 21, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by stavrogin at 1:58 AM on December 21, 2009 [4 favorites]
This is now the second time this has post has been in need of a little more [more inside].
posted by [expletive deleted] at 2:09 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by [expletive deleted] at 2:09 AM on December 21, 2009
Anyone want to buy a spleen?
posted by loquacious at 2:14 AM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by loquacious at 2:14 AM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
The editorializing "more inside" makes this one super stinky poo poo.
posted by Meatbomb at 2:14 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by Meatbomb at 2:14 AM on December 21, 2009
I don't see the problem with this, or the original, post per se - it is instructive, not just of Israeli propaganda techniques, but the willingness in general of governments and their blowhard partisans to try to destroy a legitimate story with a torrent of misinformed bile, while claiming the high ground.
The tagging sucks, though. As does reposting a deleted thread just to be difficult. If you're trying to make a political point to the MeFi mods, I'd caution: don't. you know where metatalk is.
posted by MuffinMan at 2:16 AM on December 21, 2009
The tagging sucks, though. As does reposting a deleted thread just to be difficult. If you're trying to make a political point to the MeFi mods, I'd caution: don't. you know where metatalk is.
posted by MuffinMan at 2:16 AM on December 21, 2009
Anyone want to buy a spleen?
If you didn't cut it with the cheese scalpel, yeah.
posted by stavrogin at 2:18 AM on December 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
If you didn't cut it with the cheese scalpel, yeah.
posted by stavrogin at 2:18 AM on December 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
This is still kind of stunt posty. There could be an interesting discussion but all the dram is going to make all that unlikely. Plus posting in the middle of the night is kind of lame.
posted by delmoi at 2:24 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by delmoi at 2:24 AM on December 21, 2009
This is really a non story. The political left en Sweden loves to to troll Israel. Israel loves getting trolled by Sweden. This last round was the best so far. The Swedish ambassador in Israel made a fool out of herself and the lulz where just everywhere.
The previous great flamewar between Israel and Sweden was in 2004. It was about art.
posted by uandt at 2:24 AM on December 21, 2009
The previous great flamewar between Israel and Sweden was in 2004. It was about art.
posted by uandt at 2:24 AM on December 21, 2009
*facepalm*
posted by JoeXIII007 at 2:27 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by JoeXIII007 at 2:27 AM on December 21, 2009
Kudos to you caddis. Maybe there can be a discussion here without the shrill jew hater remarks but I doubt it, as some here seem to have zionbot activators built in, as I have found out. So much so that I have been formally requested not to post on I/P issues to avoid shitfests. It is to my mind a great pity that here, one of the more intelligent spaces on the web, that a coherent discussion cannot be had on some admittedly hot button issues.
The Israel state has one of the greatest propaganda machines since this man which is very sad. What is also sad is that there is such a huge cheerleading and financial propaganda section based in a foreign country (USA) which holds that everything that the Israeli state does is sacrosanct and without question, however repulsive. One of the basis of democracy as enshrined in your countries constitution is the concept of Free Speech i.e I despise your opinions but I will fight to uphold your right to express them. More of the shouting brigade here should consider that.
I find it apt that you mention troutfishing; he was one of the reasons I started following this site before the floodgates were opened.
posted by adamvasco at 2:32 AM on December 21, 2009
The Israel state has one of the greatest propaganda machines since this man which is very sad. What is also sad is that there is such a huge cheerleading and financial propaganda section based in a foreign country (USA) which holds that everything that the Israeli state does is sacrosanct and without question, however repulsive. One of the basis of democracy as enshrined in your countries constitution is the concept of Free Speech i.e I despise your opinions but I will fight to uphold your right to express them. More of the shouting brigade here should consider that.
I find it apt that you mention troutfishing; he was one of the reasons I started following this site before the floodgates were opened.
posted by adamvasco at 2:32 AM on December 21, 2009
the bottomline still is will there be a place where we can talk about this or not? (paraphrasing baby balrog from teh talk thread)
posted by infini at 2:32 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by infini at 2:32 AM on December 21, 2009
You people are ripping the heart out of a totally innocent being.
posted by twoleftfeet at 2:38 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by twoleftfeet at 2:38 AM on December 21, 2009
If the first one wasn't a stunt post, this one most certainly is. It's the "More Inside" that does it.
posted by dunkadunc at 2:46 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by dunkadunc at 2:46 AM on December 21, 2009
Jesus Christ in a runaway shopping cart! Some people really need to get lives.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 2:48 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 2:48 AM on December 21, 2009
I think there are two stories here : First, a group of doctors at Abu Kabir were illegally stealing parts of dead bodies, both Israeli and Palestinian. Second, these events were reported as Israel taking organs from live Palestinians (see Electrius comment in the other thread).
I never bought all the usual claims that every European criticism of Israel was either anti-Semitic or Islamization, well obviously Israel kills many many Palestinians routinely.
But clearly this story's genesis involves more than merely opposition to Israeli policies or even sloppy reporting. The Swedes bought into some really gross exaggerations intentionally designed to serve either anti-Semetic or Islamic interests.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:00 AM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
I never bought all the usual claims that every European criticism of Israel was either anti-Semitic or Islamization, well obviously Israel kills many many Palestinians routinely.
But clearly this story's genesis involves more than merely opposition to Israeli policies or even sloppy reporting. The Swedes bought into some really gross exaggerations intentionally designed to serve either anti-Semetic or Islamic interests.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:00 AM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
Calling "Aftonbladet" a newspaper is a stretch. Delete this post and post it again if "Svenska Dagbladet" or "Dagens nyheter" follows suit.
posted by JeNeSaisQuoi at 3:04 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by JeNeSaisQuoi at 3:04 AM on December 21, 2009
No, jeffburdges, don't you see? The Israelis were taking the skin of their enemies! The Swedes' were proven correct! You're just trying to shut down the discussion instead of letting us consider the symbolic weight.
posted by FuManchu at 3:06 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by FuManchu at 3:06 AM on December 21, 2009
Yeah, this one might even reach vacapinta's threshold for FP deletions.
Geaux New Orleans Saints.
posted by vapidave at 3:38 AM on December 21, 2009
Geaux New Orleans Saints.
posted by vapidave at 3:38 AM on December 21, 2009
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posted by killdevil at 3:51 AM on December 21, 2009 [5 favorites]
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posted by killdevil at 3:51 AM on December 21, 2009 [5 favorites]
The first link actually seems to give a pretty thorough overview of the entire organ "industry", if you can get through it as it's fairly awful stuff to read. The point, although not explicitly stated, mirrors the original article in fact but not in sentiment. In other words, the Swedish article may have its basis in fact, but the way the information was presented was not contextual. The conclusion the first article, which seems to be quite well-researched, is that the organ-harvesting or organ-trafficking issue goes beyond the conflict in the Middle East and is in fact a smaller part of a larger story.
posted by cell divide at 3:55 AM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by cell divide at 3:55 AM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm relatively new to MeFi, and would appreciate it if someone could explain to me what this means:
This post was deleted for the following reason: don't. you know where metatalk is. -- jessamyn
On a different note, adamvasco, I've also noticed that there are some topics which seem "settled" for lack of a better word, and if you post or comment against the common grain, then you will get a bit more flamey replies. I guess this is common for any community of like minded people like this.
posted by dearsina at 3:57 AM on December 21, 2009
This post was deleted for the following reason: don't. you know where metatalk is. -- jessamyn
On a different note, adamvasco, I've also noticed that there are some topics which seem "settled" for lack of a better word, and if you post or comment against the common grain, then you will get a bit more flamey replies. I guess this is common for any community of like minded people like this.
posted by dearsina at 3:57 AM on December 21, 2009
caddis, I'm touched, really I am, but this was a poor way to go about it. (I read the FPP and kept thinking, "wow, it varies from mine only in formatting"; then I read the more inside and felt very touched and also, "ohhhhhh no".)
This isn't about me. It's about some very amoral doctors and the unfortunate tendency of some to a knee-jerk "defense" of Israel that slurs any criticism as antisemitism. That tendency is doubly unfortunate as it both obscures the truth and makes a peaceful solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict harder to come by, causing more suffering and grief for the majority of good people in both those tribes.
posted by orthogonality at 4:00 AM on December 21, 2009
This isn't about me. It's about some very amoral doctors and the unfortunate tendency of some to a knee-jerk "defense" of Israel that slurs any criticism as antisemitism. That tendency is doubly unfortunate as it both obscures the truth and makes a peaceful solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict harder to come by, causing more suffering and grief for the majority of good people in both those tribes.
posted by orthogonality at 4:00 AM on December 21, 2009
Adamvasco - here's a tip to avoiding the shrill Jew hater remarks and furthering coherent discussion. Don't liken Israeli propaganda - however flawed and manipulative - to a man orchestrated the propaganda behind the deaths of several million people, many of whom were Jews.
Just sayin', like.
posted by MuffinMan at 4:02 AM on December 21, 2009
Just sayin', like.
posted by MuffinMan at 4:02 AM on December 21, 2009
It's about some very amoral doctors and the unfortunate tendency of some to a knee-jerk "defense" of Israel that slurs any criticism as antisemitism.
Nah, both posts are great examples of blood libel. It's okay to hate an ethnic group, just be honest about it.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:14 AM on December 21, 2009
Nah, both posts are great examples of blood libel. It's okay to hate an ethnic group, just be honest about it.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:14 AM on December 21, 2009
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posted by criticalbill at 1:47 AM on December 21, 2009