Isolated crime or is Australia an inherently racist country?
January 4, 2010 4:47 AM Subscribe
An Indian student is stabbed to death in Melbourne, after a string of such attacks on Indians. His wallet and phone are not stolen. The Indian government has vigorously condemned the crime. The Australian Deputy Prime Minister has unreservedly condemned it too, but doesn't want people to assume the attack was racially motivated. The Melbourne police says there is no evidence to suggest the attack was racially motivated. Is India overreacting, or is Australia inherently racist and not interested in protecting its foreign visitors?
This post was deleted for the following reason: "is X an inherently racist country" is a hell of a tabloid headline to build a post around and probably not a great idea for metafilter. -- cortex
If you going to be walking at dark through parks in West Footscray, allys in Dandenong or carparks in Broadmeadows - sooner or later you're going to get mugged. if you job requires that you work late hours - then you're more at risk, if you are alone, slight build and almost certainly carry cash and a banging mobile phone- then being Indian is probably the last reason.
oh, and Australia is a nation of racists.
posted by mattoxic at 5:04 AM on January 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
oh, and Australia is a nation of racists.
posted by mattoxic at 5:04 AM on January 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
If there's one thing the Aborigines have taught us, it's that Australia is NOT racist.
posted by DU at 5:06 AM on January 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by DU at 5:06 AM on January 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Once the race of the attackers is determined I'll comment.
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 5:08 AM on January 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 5:08 AM on January 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Is India overreacting, or is Australia inherently racist and not interested in protecting its foreign visitors?
Those are not contradictory questions.
posted by Forktine at 5:12 AM on January 4, 2010
Those are not contradictory questions.
posted by Forktine at 5:12 AM on January 4, 2010
Inherently racist, obviously. I hold people in Cooktown personally and ideologically responsible for the murder of this man three thousand kilometres away in Melbourne.
posted by MuffinMan at 5:13 AM on January 4, 2010
posted by MuffinMan at 5:13 AM on January 4, 2010
It seems a bit early to assign motives when nothing is known about the attacker(s). Even though he still had his possessions, the motive might still have been theft.
posted by WPW at 5:14 AM on January 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by WPW at 5:14 AM on January 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Wait, I thought Australians were racist against the Chinese. What's this business about Indians and Greeks?
posted by billysumday at 5:15 AM on January 4, 2010
posted by billysumday at 5:15 AM on January 4, 2010
Were his attackers doing a blackface minstrel show version of the Jackson 5?
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:17 AM on January 4, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:17 AM on January 4, 2010 [10 favorites]
It seems a bit early to assign motives when nothing is known about the attacker(s). Even though he still had his possessions, the motive might still have been theft.
Also - and tell me if I missed something - but how do we know the attackers weren't also Indian?
posted by vacapinta at 5:19 AM on January 4, 2010
Also - and tell me if I missed something - but how do we know the attackers weren't also Indian?
posted by vacapinta at 5:19 AM on January 4, 2010
Were his attackers doing a blackface minstrel show version of the Jackson 5?
I wish I had a Harry Connick, Jr. sock puppet account so I could tell you how much I disapprove of that comment.
posted by billysumday at 5:20 AM on January 4, 2010
I wish I had a Harry Connick, Jr. sock puppet account so I could tell you how much I disapprove of that comment.
posted by billysumday at 5:20 AM on January 4, 2010
Also - and tell me if I missed something - but how do we know the attackers weren't also Indian?
Well, exactly.
posted by WPW at 5:22 AM on January 4, 2010
Well, exactly.
posted by WPW at 5:22 AM on January 4, 2010
Is the belief that a country is racist inherently ironic?
posted by hayeled at 5:26 AM on January 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by hayeled at 5:26 AM on January 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
Good god media outlets suck. They all parrot each other, and none of them include any background or context. So there have been a series of such attacks? Maybe link back to those stories, or provide some actual figures from police reports. Who is this guy in India decrying the attack? Is this really a big deal to New Delhi, or are they just engaged in proforma tut-tutting? That veiled threat to bilateral trade - any teeth to that?
Or at least do your homework on the victim. How long had he been in Australia? Did he have family here? Why did he come?
And the rest is just furrowed-brow musings on whether Australia is racist or not. I know the answer to that: Yes. No. Probably. Wouldn't the more pertinent question be how racist are we?
C'mon old media, I have Shit To Do, don't make me do your googling for you! Do some fucking analysis. Help me be smarter on this issue.
posted by Ritchie at 5:32 AM on January 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Or at least do your homework on the victim. How long had he been in Australia? Did he have family here? Why did he come?
And the rest is just furrowed-brow musings on whether Australia is racist or not. I know the answer to that: Yes. No. Probably. Wouldn't the more pertinent question be how racist are we?
C'mon old media, I have Shit To Do, don't make me do your googling for you! Do some fucking analysis. Help me be smarter on this issue.
posted by Ritchie at 5:32 AM on January 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Is the belief that a country is racist inherently ironic?
No. Unless you think there is something ironic about claiming that America prior to the Civil War was a racist country, in that the economy of an entire region was based on either actively or tacitly approved of system of subjugating an entire class of people based on race, is somehow ironic.
If a country has widespread systems in place that support or benefit from racism, I'd say it's fair to call that country racist.
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:32 AM on January 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
No. Unless you think there is something ironic about claiming that America prior to the Civil War was a racist country, in that the economy of an entire region was based on either actively or tacitly approved of system of subjugating an entire class of people based on race, is somehow ironic.
If a country has widespread systems in place that support or benefit from racism, I'd say it's fair to call that country racist.
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:32 AM on January 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
Even your black and white example, Astro Zombie, is full of exceptions and holes.
posted by Pollomacho at 5:44 AM on January 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Pollomacho at 5:44 AM on January 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I am not sure abolitionists would be necessary in a country that didn't have a significant percentage of their population enslaved in a racist system of slavery. Because a country is racist doesn't mean every single citizen in. America is capitalist -- that fact isn't disproved by the fact that I am a socialist.
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:51 AM on January 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:51 AM on January 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
"every single citizen is," rather.
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:52 AM on January 4, 2010
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:52 AM on January 4, 2010
SOUTH AFRICA WAS NOT A RACIST COUNTRY BECAUSE THIS ONE GUY THERE WAS REALLY NICE ONE TIME.
A country can definitely be a racist country. That doesn't mean that Australia is, though.
posted by billysumday at 5:56 AM on January 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
A country can definitely be a racist country. That doesn't mean that Australia is, though.
posted by billysumday at 5:56 AM on January 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
SOUTH AFRICA WAS NOT A RACIST COUNTRY BECAUSE THIS ONE GUY THERE WAS REALLY NICE ONE TIME
posted by MuffinMan at 5:59 AM on January 4, 2010
posted by MuffinMan at 5:59 AM on January 4, 2010
Is the belief that a country is racist inherently ironic?
I don't get this line of thinking and I've seen it here and elsewhere before. Judging someone based on an immutable characteristic such as race, within a context of a racially stratified and unequal society, is in no way comparable to judging a group of people based on their values and beliefs. The problem with racism isn't the idea that someone somewhere might be wrongfully mischaracterized - racism is a series of power dynamics that structure societal relationships in an unequal manner.
So when people say Australia is a deeply racist society, they're not saying that absolutely everyone who lives there (or at least those in dominant racial groups) are all the same or all believe the same things about racial minorities. The claim refers to the system of power relations at play which results in outcomes like this.
posted by allen.spaulding at 6:08 AM on January 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
I don't get this line of thinking and I've seen it here and elsewhere before. Judging someone based on an immutable characteristic such as race, within a context of a racially stratified and unequal society, is in no way comparable to judging a group of people based on their values and beliefs. The problem with racism isn't the idea that someone somewhere might be wrongfully mischaracterized - racism is a series of power dynamics that structure societal relationships in an unequal manner.
So when people say Australia is a deeply racist society, they're not saying that absolutely everyone who lives there (or at least those in dominant racial groups) are all the same or all believe the same things about racial minorities. The claim refers to the system of power relations at play which results in outcomes like this.
posted by allen.spaulding at 6:08 AM on January 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Do some fucking analysis.
No kidding. What a lot of terrible journalism we have here. Wikipedia has better background, e.g. apparently there was a protest over attacks on Indian students in Melbourne back in May 2009.
I was recently in Melbourne and was surprised to find it's very diverse, which is apparenlty due to a relatively recent influx of immigrants.
posted by scottreynen at 6:13 AM on January 4, 2010
No kidding. What a lot of terrible journalism we have here. Wikipedia has better background, e.g. apparently there was a protest over attacks on Indian students in Melbourne back in May 2009.
I was recently in Melbourne and was surprised to find it's very diverse, which is apparenlty due to a relatively recent influx of immigrants.
posted by scottreynen at 6:13 AM on January 4, 2010
Australia is inherently racist and not interested in protecting its foreign visitors.
Our politicians and figureheads will swear black and blue that we aren't. But the reality is, out in the suburbs, away from all the hustle and bustle of the city, we are a bunch of racist pricks. It may not be explicit and obvious at all times, but the undercurrent is there.
The number of times I've heard Indians (ESPECIALLY taxi drivers) referred to as "Fucking Terrorists" astounds me.
We are a monocultured island, filled with ignorant, fat, sport-obsessed white people, isolated in the middle of the ocean, far far away from other white people. We've only almost just accepted the notion that the 'wogs' can do more than clean our floors, pick our fruit and run our fish and chip shops.
Our only neighbours are Asians. And they're all coming over here. Taking 'our' jobs.
That scares the shit out of us.
There are many Australians who aren't racist. I like to consider myself one of them.
But there's many, many more who are.
That's the sad truth.
posted by cheaily at 6:16 AM on January 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Our politicians and figureheads will swear black and blue that we aren't. But the reality is, out in the suburbs, away from all the hustle and bustle of the city, we are a bunch of racist pricks. It may not be explicit and obvious at all times, but the undercurrent is there.
The number of times I've heard Indians (ESPECIALLY taxi drivers) referred to as "Fucking Terrorists" astounds me.
We are a monocultured island, filled with ignorant, fat, sport-obsessed white people, isolated in the middle of the ocean, far far away from other white people. We've only almost just accepted the notion that the 'wogs' can do more than clean our floors, pick our fruit and run our fish and chip shops.
Our only neighbours are Asians. And they're all coming over here. Taking 'our' jobs.
That scares the shit out of us.
There are many Australians who aren't racist. I like to consider myself one of them.
But there's many, many more who are.
That's the sad truth.
posted by cheaily at 6:16 AM on January 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Is India overreacting...
Maybe. It's not just Indians who get murdered. Why just a few months ago, a Chinese girl was killed here in Hobart.,,
...or is Australia inherently racist...
I think we've covered this before. Aah yes, in fact we seem to be rehashing it right now in this thread. I'll just repeat what I said last time, then; yep, we're racist as fuck, now prove you're not too.
and not interested in protecting its foreign visitors?
Huh? This is the bit that that's got me confused - how, exactly, are we not protecting our foreign visitors? Is America failing to protect its child beauty pageant queens because one of them got killed? What evidence is there that this man enjoyed any less protection and safety under the law in Australia than any other person in this country? Are the AFP expected to provide armed escorts to all international visitors now?
Look, if it turns out that a pack of Melbourne skinheads have been responsible for attacks like this, then they should be strung up by their shrunken lilly-white balls and be pelted with cricket balls until they're ragged coils of mince meat, but let's just try to establish who the guilty party might actually be before we start blaming this on inherent racism. I fear for the safety of a couple of Indian guys who work in the United petrol station near my place. I fear for them because they work lonely night-jobs in a relatively high-crime area, not because they're Indian.
posted by Jimbob at 6:23 AM on January 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
Maybe. It's not just Indians who get murdered. Why just a few months ago, a Chinese girl was killed here in Hobart.,,
...or is Australia inherently racist...
I think we've covered this before. Aah yes, in fact we seem to be rehashing it right now in this thread. I'll just repeat what I said last time, then; yep, we're racist as fuck, now prove you're not too.
and not interested in protecting its foreign visitors?
Huh? This is the bit that that's got me confused - how, exactly, are we not protecting our foreign visitors? Is America failing to protect its child beauty pageant queens because one of them got killed? What evidence is there that this man enjoyed any less protection and safety under the law in Australia than any other person in this country? Are the AFP expected to provide armed escorts to all international visitors now?
Look, if it turns out that a pack of Melbourne skinheads have been responsible for attacks like this, then they should be strung up by their shrunken lilly-white balls and be pelted with cricket balls until they're ragged coils of mince meat, but let's just try to establish who the guilty party might actually be before we start blaming this on inherent racism. I fear for the safety of a couple of Indian guys who work in the United petrol station near my place. I fear for them because they work lonely night-jobs in a relatively high-crime area, not because they're Indian.
posted by Jimbob at 6:23 AM on January 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
Judging someone based on an immutable characteristic such as race ... is in no way comparable to judging a group of people based on their values and beliefs.... The claim refers to the system of power relations at play which results in outcomes like this.
You know, I really think that racial dynamics are an important thing, and I think people who subscribe to the above worldview can go to hell for their counterprogressive bullshit. Throwing loaded words like "racism" at people who disagree with you is not the way to get things fixed, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Besides that is the fact that you're just wrong. That's not what racism is. That simply is not what the word means. "You're racist" is universally understood to be a statement about an individual, in a way that "You're a mixed economy" and "You're a Republic" are not. So while you'd like to misappropriate real English words that already mean something, in order to describe a power dynamic that the majority of us earnestly want to deal with, wishing won't make it so. And pretending that you've done so promotes sloppy language and alienation, and ultimately retards the progress of improving socioracial dynamics.
posted by jock@law at 6:27 AM on January 4, 2010
You know, I really think that racial dynamics are an important thing, and I think people who subscribe to the above worldview can go to hell for their counterprogressive bullshit. Throwing loaded words like "racism" at people who disagree with you is not the way to get things fixed, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Besides that is the fact that you're just wrong. That's not what racism is. That simply is not what the word means. "You're racist" is universally understood to be a statement about an individual, in a way that "You're a mixed economy" and "You're a Republic" are not. So while you'd like to misappropriate real English words that already mean something, in order to describe a power dynamic that the majority of us earnestly want to deal with, wishing won't make it so. And pretending that you've done so promotes sloppy language and alienation, and ultimately retards the progress of improving socioracial dynamics.
posted by jock@law at 6:27 AM on January 4, 2010
SOUTH AFRICA WAS NOT A RACIST COUNTRY BECAUSE THIS ONE GUY THERE WAS REALLY NICE ONE TIME.
Yeah, you mean this guy?
I don't doubt that there are plenty of racists in Australia, just as there are everywhere, but not all Australians are racist. Nations are created by people and not in possesion of inheretance or genetics like humans. If the the legacy of vile nationalism of the 20th century has taught us anything it should be that nations are not inherently anything but can be controlled by malicious individuals or groups.
That is except for Estonia. Fucking Estonian pricks.
posted by Pollomacho at 6:28 AM on January 4, 2010
Yeah, you mean this guy?
I don't doubt that there are plenty of racists in Australia, just as there are everywhere, but not all Australians are racist. Nations are created by people and not in possesion of inheretance or genetics like humans. If the the legacy of vile nationalism of the 20th century has taught us anything it should be that nations are not inherently anything but can be controlled by malicious individuals or groups.
That is except for Estonia. Fucking Estonian pricks.
posted by Pollomacho at 6:28 AM on January 4, 2010
come on Pollomacho, Mandela was black, and blacks don't count
or something
posted by criticalbill at 6:33 AM on January 4, 2010
or something
posted by criticalbill at 6:33 AM on January 4, 2010
The number of times I've heard Indians (ESPECIALLY taxi drivers) referred to as "Fucking Terrorists" astounds me.
I've had the same experience. Then the next night, those people go out and order a curry. I'm not trying to excuse their comments, but in my experience, the verbal racism of Australian bogans is rarely backed up by action, unless there has been a very sudden cultural shift that I'm not aware of. I don't believe the arseholes who joke about taxi drivers being "terrorists" are then going to actually go out and kill them for sport.
posted by Jimbob at 6:34 AM on January 4, 2010
I've had the same experience. Then the next night, those people go out and order a curry. I'm not trying to excuse their comments, but in my experience, the verbal racism of Australian bogans is rarely backed up by action, unless there has been a very sudden cultural shift that I'm not aware of. I don't believe the arseholes who joke about taxi drivers being "terrorists" are then going to actually go out and kill them for sport.
posted by Jimbob at 6:34 AM on January 4, 2010
SOUTH AFRICA WAS NOT A RACIST COUNTRY BECAUSE THIS ONE GUY THERE WAS REALLY NICE ONE TIME.
Yeah, you mean this guy?
Are you really that dense or are you putting us on? I couldn't have been more obvious if I had held a big wriggling night crawler underwater and said "here, fishy, fishy." It was like, "gee I hope someone posts a link to Nelson Mandela, but nobody's that stupid." The fact that a country like South Africa produced a Nelson Mandela is sort of exactly my point. A country that institutes apartheid is a RACIST COUNTRY, even if half (or the majority) of the country is being oppressed. Including that guy.
posted by billysumday at 6:35 AM on January 4, 2010
Yeah, you mean this guy?
Are you really that dense or are you putting us on? I couldn't have been more obvious if I had held a big wriggling night crawler underwater and said "here, fishy, fishy." It was like, "gee I hope someone posts a link to Nelson Mandela, but nobody's that stupid." The fact that a country like South Africa produced a Nelson Mandela is sort of exactly my point. A country that institutes apartheid is a RACIST COUNTRY, even if half (or the majority) of the country is being oppressed. Including that guy.
posted by billysumday at 6:35 AM on January 4, 2010
Besides that is the fact that you're just wrong. That's not what racism is. That simply is not what the word means. "You're racist" is universally understood to be a statement about an individual, in a way that "You're a mixed economy" and "You're a Republic" are not.
I don't agree with this. The idea of institutionalized racism is a very old one. It is entirely possible to discuss the racism embedded in a system of human interaction without it being a statement about an individual.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:40 AM on January 4, 2010
I don't agree with this. The idea of institutionalized racism is a very old one. It is entirely possible to discuss the racism embedded in a system of human interaction without it being a statement about an individual.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:40 AM on January 4, 2010
Is Australia inherently racist and not interested in protecting its foreign visitors?
This.
For a country so close to Asia, and with so many Asian immigrants, Australia seems to be full to the brim of people scared the fuck of Asians.
posted by chunking express at 6:42 AM on January 4, 2010
This.
For a country so close to Asia, and with so many Asian immigrants, Australia seems to be full to the brim of people scared the fuck of Asians.
posted by chunking express at 6:42 AM on January 4, 2010
By the way, if your response to a discussion of racism is to instantly get offended and start huffing because you really, really need to establish that you yourself are not racist, and how dare anybody say anything that implies you might be, even though you yourself are not the subject of the discussion and you have never been directly named as being racist -- well, you may not be racist, but you're going to do an excellent job of derailing a discussion of racism. It seems inevitable, but it's really, really depressing.
Before leaping into a discussion with that sort of response like that, please consider the following statement: Maybe whether or not you are personally a racist is not the most important question in a discussion about racism. Maybe, sometimes, it's not about you.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:44 AM on January 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
Before leaping into a discussion with that sort of response like that, please consider the following statement: Maybe whether or not you are personally a racist is not the most important question in a discussion about racism. Maybe, sometimes, it's not about you.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:44 AM on January 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
Are the attackers white Australians? If the attackers turn out to be "of middle eastern appearance" or some other ethnic group, then what?
posted by limbic at 6:44 AM on January 4, 2010
posted by limbic at 6:44 AM on January 4, 2010
I don't agree with this. The idea of institutionalized racism is a very old one. It is entirely possible to discuss the racism embedded in a system of human interaction without it being a statement about an individual.
He's just trolling. You can tell by his use of the word "counterprogressive" which is a poorly-veiled misdirect from the right. If he had a point to make I suspect he would have made one, rather than just trying to play the linguistic snob while doing a bad job of it. After all, given that racism attaches only to discrete individuals in his world, it's not possible to have a racist comic strip, a racist movie, or a racist joke. Which is why I have the best fucking joke about black people that I've been dying to tell.
posted by allen.spaulding at 6:46 AM on January 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
He's just trolling. You can tell by his use of the word "counterprogressive" which is a poorly-veiled misdirect from the right. If he had a point to make I suspect he would have made one, rather than just trying to play the linguistic snob while doing a bad job of it. After all, given that racism attaches only to discrete individuals in his world, it's not possible to have a racist comic strip, a racist movie, or a racist joke. Which is why I have the best fucking joke about black people that I've been dying to tell.
posted by allen.spaulding at 6:46 AM on January 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
It is entirely possible to discuss the racism embedded in a system of human interaction without it being a statement about an individual.
I agree but would be more careful about the language: 'country' is too broad and wide-open to misreadings, plus to my mind essentialist in a way that mirrors racist discourse. If you mean some regime, institution or particular historical legacy, say that; pays to locate the problem accurately if you intend to address it.
posted by Abiezer at 6:49 AM on January 4, 2010
I agree but would be more careful about the language: 'country' is too broad and wide-open to misreadings, plus to my mind essentialist in a way that mirrors racist discourse. If you mean some regime, institution or particular historical legacy, say that; pays to locate the problem accurately if you intend to address it.
posted by Abiezer at 6:49 AM on January 4, 2010
Is it actually possible to isolate institutional, nation-wide racism as the fundamental cause of a couple of crimes, linked only by the race of the victims, amoungst a sea of other crimes commited against victims of other races? I just don't think it is, until we get our hands on the perpetrators.
I'm not trying to be offensive or to derail, but I would find it much, much easier to link intitutional racism in the US to the high murder rate of African-Americans, than to link institutional racism in Australia to these few attacks on Indians, from a socialogical and statistical point of view. Nothing to see here until we get more information.
posted by Jimbob at 6:49 AM on January 4, 2010
I'm not trying to be offensive or to derail, but I would find it much, much easier to link intitutional racism in the US to the high murder rate of African-Americans, than to link institutional racism in Australia to these few attacks on Indians, from a socialogical and statistical point of view. Nothing to see here until we get more information.
posted by Jimbob at 6:49 AM on January 4, 2010
Are people saying that if the attackers turn out not to be white Australians, it demonstrates that there isn't racism in Australia? I mean, this specific attack may not have been racist, but whether it is or not doesn't seem to affect the larger question of racism is Australia.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:49 AM on January 4, 2010
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:49 AM on January 4, 2010
If you mean some regime, institution or particular historical legacy, say that; pays to locate the problem accurately if you intend to address it.
How would you phrase the question, that is more specific than it being one of widespread racism in Australia?
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:51 AM on January 4, 2010
How would you phrase the question, that is more specific than it being one of widespread racism in Australia?
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:51 AM on January 4, 2010
Possibly racist. I woudl like to know why there are such strong restrictions on immigration in the first place? Is it strictly because of the size of the island to limit it's population?
posted by stormpooper at 6:51 AM on January 4, 2010
posted by stormpooper at 6:51 AM on January 4, 2010
--Nothing to see here until we get more information.--
This.
posted by peacay at 6:51 AM on January 4, 2010
This.
posted by peacay at 6:51 AM on January 4, 2010
The institutionalized racism in Australia is called the White Australia Policy. It officially ended in 1975.
posted by bhnyc at 6:55 AM on January 4, 2010
posted by bhnyc at 6:55 AM on January 4, 2010
We should nuke Australia from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
posted by the bricabrac man at 6:58 AM on January 4, 2010
posted by the bricabrac man at 6:58 AM on January 4, 2010
How would you phrase the question, that is more specific than it being one of widespread racism in Australia?
Not sure I understand you here, but was speaking from my experience of anti-fascist activism in the UK (won't try to speak about the situation in Australia in a detail I don't know). There's generalities about the history of colonialism and so on that are tied to the formation of the modern nation-state and certainly are a big factor in racism, but when it came to actively responding to racist attacks and so on in a particular community, or larger questions like structural racism in a given institution, there wasn't much utility in broad-brush statements about the country as a whole (though LKJ's 'Inglan is a Bitch' is a top tune).
posted by Abiezer at 7:00 AM on January 4, 2010
Not sure I understand you here, but was speaking from my experience of anti-fascist activism in the UK (won't try to speak about the situation in Australia in a detail I don't know). There's generalities about the history of colonialism and so on that are tied to the formation of the modern nation-state and certainly are a big factor in racism, but when it came to actively responding to racist attacks and so on in a particular community, or larger questions like structural racism in a given institution, there wasn't much utility in broad-brush statements about the country as a whole (though LKJ's 'Inglan is a Bitch' is a top tune).
posted by Abiezer at 7:00 AM on January 4, 2010
Australia is the "slow" younger brother of England, and the embarassing cousin of America. England is the overachieving burnout who winds up living with mom and dad after having a mental breakdown. America is the cool jock who winds up dying of a massive coronary while beating his children.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:02 AM on January 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:02 AM on January 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Also, if we were voting, I would cast my lot with the over-editorialising, whipping-up-the-foam, too-soon-come-back-later-without-the-overt-framing, delete-this-post set.
posted by peacay at 7:03 AM on January 4, 2010
posted by peacay at 7:03 AM on January 4, 2010
I woudl like to know why there are such strong restrictions on immigration in the first place? Is it strictly because of the size of the island to limit it's population?
That's certainly a large part of it. On the one hand, Australia is really tight on resources, most notably fresh water. On the other hand, foreign students are one of the top sectors (2nd or 3rd) of the Australian economy. So there are economic tensions around immigration on top of racial tensions. It's hard to pin immigration policy on any single factor.
posted by scottreynen at 7:04 AM on January 4, 2010
That's certainly a large part of it. On the one hand, Australia is really tight on resources, most notably fresh water. On the other hand, foreign students are one of the top sectors (2nd or 3rd) of the Australian economy. So there are economic tensions around immigration on top of racial tensions. It's hard to pin immigration policy on any single factor.
posted by scottreynen at 7:04 AM on January 4, 2010
Are people saying that if the attackers turn out not to be white Australians, it demonstrates that there isn't racism in Australia?
I think people are saying that the evidence of racism in Australia is plentiful, but that doesn't mean these crimes have anything to do with it. That's what I'm saying, anyway. These crimes just simply don't fit into my profile of how racism works in Australia, but then given shit like this happening in the US, maybe I'm just behind the times and not up to speed with what the kids are into these days. Anything's possible. I just don't think we have enough information yet.
Is this evidence of India being an inherently racist country? I wouldn't say so.
posted by Jimbob at 7:10 AM on January 4, 2010
I think people are saying that the evidence of racism in Australia is plentiful, but that doesn't mean these crimes have anything to do with it. That's what I'm saying, anyway. These crimes just simply don't fit into my profile of how racism works in Australia, but then given shit like this happening in the US, maybe I'm just behind the times and not up to speed with what the kids are into these days. Anything's possible. I just don't think we have enough information yet.
Is this evidence of India being an inherently racist country? I wouldn't say so.
posted by Jimbob at 7:10 AM on January 4, 2010
Hmmm, I guess it's the wrong time from my FPP "Fredric Douglas: Racist or True Scotsman".
So anyhow, despite the fact that it's easier to do, I'm just gonna say that labeling the problem almost never makes the problem go away. Once the problem goes away, you don't so much need a label for it.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:16 AM on January 4, 2010
So anyhow, despite the fact that it's easier to do, I'm just gonna say that labeling the problem almost never makes the problem go away. Once the problem goes away, you don't so much need a label for it.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:16 AM on January 4, 2010
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posted by Pollomacho at 4:54 AM on January 4, 2010 [1 favorite]