Iowa Feticide or Crass Hospital
March 1, 2010 7:35 AM Subscribe
Pregnant woman arrested for falling down stairs A Pregnant Iowa Woman Was Arrested for Falling Down some stairs. the police were called by the hosipital.
This post was deleted for the following reason: That's pretty fucked up indeed at first glance, but this is a single link to a few paragraphs of a newswire story. If we're gonna have a post about this, it needs to be constructed better, and this thread is not going anywhere good either. -- cortex
That's pretty awful. The patient (I will not use her name here) has a moral imperative to sue the hospital and staff for breach of confidentiality.
posted by Mister_A at 7:41 AM on March 1, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by Mister_A at 7:41 AM on March 1, 2010 [4 favorites]
Apparently Utah is on the brink of criminalizing miscarriages.
Yes, it's insane.
posted by adamrice at 7:45 AM on March 1, 2010
Yes, it's insane.
posted by adamrice at 7:45 AM on March 1, 2010
Well it's Iowa. Once you get out of the liberalizing aura of Iowa City and the slightly-steelier Des Moines it's all podunks and Gipper Grovelers.
Everyone's always shocked when they find out the flyover states are culturally inclined to irrational misogyny.
posted by clarknova at 7:45 AM on March 1, 2010
Everyone's always shocked when they find out the flyover states are culturally inclined to irrational misogyny.
posted by clarknova at 7:45 AM on March 1, 2010
You have done a good job of exposing ignorance and bias with your comment, clarknova.
posted by Mister_A at 7:48 AM on March 1, 2010 [20 favorites]
posted by Mister_A at 7:48 AM on March 1, 2010 [20 favorites]
The patient (I will not use her name here) has a moral imperative to sue the hospital and staff for breach of confidentiality.
No. Health care professionals have a responsibility to report activity they think may be criminal in nature. This article is heavily biased, and we don't know the real story. I'd be willing to bet, however, that there was something else going on.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:49 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
No. Health care professionals have a responsibility to report activity they think may be criminal in nature. This article is heavily biased, and we don't know the real story. I'd be willing to bet, however, that there was something else going on.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:49 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
Well it's Iowa.
Iowa legalized gay marriage. Does even your own state of Coloradio, let alone a typically-liberal one like California?
Iowa is a lot more liberal than you think. The governor is D as are 4 of the 7 people they send to Congress.
posted by DU at 7:49 AM on March 1, 2010 [3 favorites]
Iowa legalized gay marriage. Does even your own state of Coloradio, let alone a typically-liberal one like California?
Iowa is a lot more liberal than you think. The governor is D as are 4 of the 7 people they send to Congress.
posted by DU at 7:49 AM on March 1, 2010 [3 favorites]
The overall tone of this thread is generally retarded.
That said, I think a more accurate headline might of been, "Woman arrested on suspicion of attempt of unlawful miscarriage." The original headline is equivalent to writing "Man arrested for driving car" after reading a police report that said the man failed a sobriety test. The woman might be in the right or might not, or the overall nature of the law may be fundamentally unjust -- I'm not sure, because I haven't read and analyzed the facts and legal principles behind them. But then again, neither has the author of this article.
posted by gagglezoomer at 7:56 AM on March 1, 2010
That said, I think a more accurate headline might of been, "Woman arrested on suspicion of attempt of unlawful miscarriage." The original headline is equivalent to writing "Man arrested for driving car" after reading a police report that said the man failed a sobriety test. The woman might be in the right or might not, or the overall nature of the law may be fundamentally unjust -- I'm not sure, because I haven't read and analyzed the facts and legal principles behind them. But then again, neither has the author of this article.
posted by gagglezoomer at 7:56 AM on March 1, 2010
From the linked article: Of all the horrible, shocking elements to this case, perhaps one of the worst is the breach of confidentiality on the part of the hospital staff.
That may be. So, uh, why mention her name 10 times in the article?
posted by brain_drain at 7:58 AM on March 1, 2010
That may be. So, uh, why mention her name 10 times in the article?
posted by brain_drain at 7:58 AM on March 1, 2010
jimmythefish - She absolutely should bring a suit. Expose this law, expose the way it forces medical professionals to make unethical decisions like this one (I'm giving the staff the benefit of the doubt).
posted by Mister_A at 8:01 AM on March 1, 2010
posted by Mister_A at 8:01 AM on March 1, 2010
There's pro-life people everywhere, and the lunatic fringe of that will assume that anything that has the chance to hurt a fetus was deliberate. This is just an example of that.
That she had doubts early on is probably fairly normal, especially if she was looking at single motherhood ('estranged husband' and all). But she's had a shock, she's in an emergency room (which is not exactly a calming location), and she spills to someone being kind (if professionally so) to her. It doesn't look good, and it probably could have been handled far better by the attendings and the police.
But if the Utah statue passes, we'll see a lot more cases like this there. I'm not thinking positively about this.
posted by mephron at 8:02 AM on March 1, 2010
That she had doubts early on is probably fairly normal, especially if she was looking at single motherhood ('estranged husband' and all). But she's had a shock, she's in an emergency room (which is not exactly a calming location), and she spills to someone being kind (if professionally so) to her. It doesn't look good, and it probably could have been handled far better by the attendings and the police.
But if the Utah statue passes, we'll see a lot more cases like this there. I'm not thinking positively about this.
posted by mephron at 8:02 AM on March 1, 2010
The overall tone of this thread is generally retarded.
And you've been on MetaFilter long enough to know that the "r" word is going to make it better?
This is really saddening, but I can't help but think that this is perhaps not the whole picture. Certainly sensationalizing the case so that it looks like she's being punished for "thought crime" makes for a good read/good talking point for the pro-choice movement - and obviously, if this is true, I'm pretty sickened... but at the same time, not every pregnant woman in Iowa who falls down the stairs has been imprisoned, so something must be different here. What is the factor that makes this different? Dr./patient confidentiality prevents us from knowing what exactly she said to her doctor, but clearly it was something fairly alarming.
No way should she be punished for that, whatever it was, but no way is it fair to say that "falling down the stairs" is the crux if the issue here. Unless, of course, every other pregnant woman in Iowa who accidentally endangers a fetus is also imprisoned.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 8:02 AM on March 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
And you've been on MetaFilter long enough to know that the "r" word is going to make it better?
This is really saddening, but I can't help but think that this is perhaps not the whole picture. Certainly sensationalizing the case so that it looks like she's being punished for "thought crime" makes for a good read/good talking point for the pro-choice movement - and obviously, if this is true, I'm pretty sickened... but at the same time, not every pregnant woman in Iowa who falls down the stairs has been imprisoned, so something must be different here. What is the factor that makes this different? Dr./patient confidentiality prevents us from knowing what exactly she said to her doctor, but clearly it was something fairly alarming.
No way should she be punished for that, whatever it was, but no way is it fair to say that "falling down the stairs" is the crux if the issue here. Unless, of course, every other pregnant woman in Iowa who accidentally endangers a fetus is also imprisoned.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 8:02 AM on March 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
I wonder if clarknova's state has legalized gay marriage yet.
posted by shii at 8:04 AM on March 1, 2010
posted by shii at 8:04 AM on March 1, 2010
So we have a touchy political issue, accusations of misogyny, snotty regional insults, and 'retarded.' Anybody want to bring up circumcision or SUV's just to add to the fun?
posted by jonmc at 8:10 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 8:10 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
Iowa legalized gay marriage. Does even your own state of Coloradio, let alone a typically-liberal one like California?
Iowa is a lot more liberal than you think. The governor is D as are 4 of the 7 people they send to Congress.
Gay Marriange and Abortion are two different issues. Unlike what black-and-white fundamentalist teabagger types may lead you to believe one can actually have starkly different views on one or the other than the strictly "conservative" or "liberal" platform demands you to have.
posted by Pollomacho at 8:10 AM on March 1, 2010
Iowa is a lot more liberal than you think. The governor is D as are 4 of the 7 people they send to Congress.
Gay Marriange and Abortion are two different issues. Unlike what black-and-white fundamentalist teabagger types may lead you to believe one can actually have starkly different views on one or the other than the strictly "conservative" or "liberal" platform demands you to have.
posted by Pollomacho at 8:10 AM on March 1, 2010
Don't we have any standards anymore? I mean, this is an interesting story - an outrageous story, an awful story - and good on you for getting the word out.
But man-oh-live - I almost didn't even bother between the fact that it's a single link to "change.org" and you couldn't even bother to use basic punctuation. Were you really in that much of a hurry to get it posted on the Blue? Ugh.
posted by kbanas at 8:11 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
But man-oh-live - I almost didn't even bother between the fact that it's a single link to "change.org" and you couldn't even bother to use basic punctuation. Were you really in that much of a hurry to get it posted on the Blue? Ugh.
posted by kbanas at 8:11 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
The overall tone of this thread is generally retarded.
Unless you mean that the tone has been slowed down, you should shut the fuck up.
On preview, what grapefruitmoon said.
posted by tzikeh at 8:13 AM on March 1, 2010
Unless you mean that the tone has been slowed down, you should shut the fuck up.
On preview, what grapefruitmoon said.
posted by tzikeh at 8:13 AM on March 1, 2010
I'm with grapefruitmoon that hysterical headlines like "Pregnant Woman Arrested For Falling Down Stairs" is shitty journalism for "Woman Arrested on Suspicion of Violating Bullshit Iowa Statute that is Probably Unconstitutional."
posted by applemeat at 8:13 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by applemeat at 8:13 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
Welcome aboard the Thread of the Damned.
posted by bicyclefish at 8:14 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by bicyclefish at 8:14 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
I wonder if clarknova's state has legalized gay marriage yet.
As I'm not a statist I don't have a state I can claim responsibility for.
Also, I lived out (or outlived) the Bush administration in the great state of Iowa. Those who did the same are welcome to chime in with their ridiculous comments at this time.
posted by clarknova at 8:16 AM on March 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
As I'm not a statist I don't have a state I can claim responsibility for.
Also, I lived out (or outlived) the Bush administration in the great state of Iowa. Those who did the same are welcome to chime in with their ridiculous comments at this time.
posted by clarknova at 8:16 AM on March 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
First, do no harm. Second, no snitching.
posted by geoff. at 8:16 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by geoff. at 8:16 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
The overall tone of this thread is stupid and dumb. You know what I meant. But thanks for the faux outrage anyway.
posted by gagglezoomer at 8:19 AM on March 1, 2010
posted by gagglezoomer at 8:19 AM on March 1, 2010
Feticide...great band name. Maybe even better, something like Misdemeanor Feticide. Premeditated Feticide?
posted by spicynuts at 8:21 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by spicynuts at 8:21 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
ok, well seeing as there is so much hate on this thread i will delete it. sorry to miss a full stop, jeez, picky much.
posted by marienbad at 8:22 AM on March 1, 2010
posted by marienbad at 8:22 AM on March 1, 2010
I declawed and circumcised my SUV, but I'm not paying for its health care, because I don't know if it was born in the United States.
posted by vibrotronica at 8:23 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by vibrotronica at 8:23 AM on March 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on one's viewpoint), posts like this rarely go well. A single-link post that's pretty much just OUTRAGEFILTER does not make a very good post for metafilter. If it's a link to the Iowa story, and then maybe some contextual links to other articles about laws about feticide, it might make a better post. But it still won't guarantee discussion that's much more nuanced than what we've already seen.
posted by rtha at 8:26 AM on March 1, 2010
posted by rtha at 8:26 AM on March 1, 2010
ok so where is the delete button or does "remove from recent activity" do this?
posted by marienbad at 8:29 AM on March 1, 2010
posted by marienbad at 8:29 AM on March 1, 2010
the worst part of this is that she wasn't charged due to a technicality, not because the prosecutor had a sudden attack of compassion and common sense
who the hell tries to abort by throwing themselves down a flight of steps?
there's only one real solution - eliminate all multi story buildings in iowa
posted by pyramid termite at 8:29 AM on March 1, 2010
who the hell tries to abort by throwing themselves down a flight of steps?
there's only one real solution - eliminate all multi story buildings in iowa
posted by pyramid termite at 8:29 AM on March 1, 2010
ok so where is the delete button or does "remove from recent activity" do this?
You can't do this.
If you really want it yanked, you can mail a mod.
posted by kbanas at 8:29 AM on March 1, 2010
You can't do this.
If you really want it yanked, you can mail a mod.
posted by kbanas at 8:29 AM on March 1, 2010
You can't delete it.
You can ask the mods to delete it.
posted by graventy at 8:30 AM on March 1, 2010
You can ask the mods to delete it.
posted by graventy at 8:30 AM on March 1, 2010
Thank you for the links Brina, I found the third one to be the most informative as it has actual quotes from the woman involved.
I can sort of see why the nurse was worried, a distraught pregnant women who just took a tumble down the stairs says she wasn't sure she wanted the baby, and this phrase sends her into 'save the babies' mode and kind of makes common sense go out the window. If you didn't take the time to stop, assess, look for context and then proceed, I can see how this would get out of hand very quickly. Nurse thinks mother tried to get rid of baby, nurse tells doctor, doctor is obligated to report, things spiral down from there. I don't think the way this was handled was correct, but I can see how it ended up in the awful mess it did.
I think things would have turned out a lot better if the nurse had a.) slowed down a moment to think about what this woman had just said, filtered it a bit and i.) given her the number for some free counseling (if she thought the woman was in distress and therefore didn't want her baby) ii.) given her the number for community resources related to parenthood (WIC etc.) and b.) The police had taken time to do an investigation before making an arrest.
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 8:32 AM on March 1, 2010
I can sort of see why the nurse was worried, a distraught pregnant women who just took a tumble down the stairs says she wasn't sure she wanted the baby, and this phrase sends her into 'save the babies' mode and kind of makes common sense go out the window. If you didn't take the time to stop, assess, look for context and then proceed, I can see how this would get out of hand very quickly. Nurse thinks mother tried to get rid of baby, nurse tells doctor, doctor is obligated to report, things spiral down from there. I don't think the way this was handled was correct, but I can see how it ended up in the awful mess it did.
I think things would have turned out a lot better if the nurse had a.) slowed down a moment to think about what this woman had just said, filtered it a bit and i.) given her the number for some free counseling (if she thought the woman was in distress and therefore didn't want her baby) ii.) given her the number for community resources related to parenthood (WIC etc.) and b.) The police had taken time to do an investigation before making an arrest.
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 8:32 AM on March 1, 2010
who the hell tries to abort by throwing themselves down a flight of steps?
More people, if they're not given the choice otherwise... If it's impossible to get an abortion because of draconian laws then, historically, people will use other methods, like dodgy backstreet abortionists, or a flight of stairs.
I'm baffled enough by men writing the rules on what women can do with their body/entire life, but to start threatening legal recourse for miscarriages, however they happen is just... the most depressing thing I've read about America since the news that carrying more than 3 condoms in DC (as a woman, obviously it's fine for men to carry as many as they want) will be a prosecutable offense. Fuckers.
posted by opsin at 8:37 AM on March 1, 2010
More people, if they're not given the choice otherwise... If it's impossible to get an abortion because of draconian laws then, historically, people will use other methods, like dodgy backstreet abortionists, or a flight of stairs.
I'm baffled enough by men writing the rules on what women can do with their body/entire life, but to start threatening legal recourse for miscarriages, however they happen is just... the most depressing thing I've read about America since the news that carrying more than 3 condoms in DC (as a woman, obviously it's fine for men to carry as many as they want) will be a prosecutable offense. Fuckers.
posted by opsin at 8:37 AM on March 1, 2010
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posted by marienbad at 7:39 AM on March 1, 2010