How much longer before they start talking about final solutions to the "Muslim Problem"?

August 11, 2010 12:25 PM

Not only should there not be any Mosques built near Ground Zero, there shouldn't be any more Mosques built in America period. At least, that's the view recently espoused by Bryan Fisher, right-wing activist and "Director of Issues Analysis" for the American Family Association. And America may be set to agree. A recent widely reported CNN poll finds that 68% of Americans (of the 628 they polled) oppose the ecumenical, cross-cultural outreach oriented Cordoba House project.

Meanwhile, a recent Pew poll seems to confirm the wisdom of the Washington punditry, predicting significant Republican congressional gains in the midterm elections. And with statements of intolerance for Muslim religious freedom coming from an organization ostensibly dedicated to combating intolerance, it seems to be getting a lot harder to be Muslim in America now than it was in the old days.

Also previously.

[Via TPM]

posted by saulgoodman (50 comments total)

I had to look out my window just now, I was wondering if America was relocated.

It was.
posted by Malice at 12:27 PM on August 11, 2010 [2 favorites]

Terrorists attacks carried out by foreign or American muslims on American soil (give or take): 3

Terrorist attacks carried out by American Christians on American soil (bombing abortion clinics, killing abortion doctors): 10?

When do we advocate not building any more churches either?
posted by spicynuts at 12:28 PM on August 11, 2010 [4 favorites]

Jesus wept, what a douchebag!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:29 PM on August 11, 2010

Fortunately, the whole point of the Constitution is that basic human rights aren't up for a vote.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:29 PM on August 11, 2010 [24 favorites]

New Yorkers are fine with Cordoba, and 68% of 628 people can go fuck themselves.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:29 PM on August 11, 2010 [18 favorites]

68% of America thinks the First Amendment is just for show.
posted by turaho at 12:30 PM on August 11, 2010 [2 favorites]

Fortunately, the whole point of the Constitution is that basic human rights aren't up for a vote.

What are you some kinda activist judge or something*?

*With the exception of Amendment #2
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:30 PM on August 11, 2010

Meanwhile, a recent Pew poll seems to confirm the wisdom of the Washington punditry, predicting significant Republican congressional gains in the midterm elections.

The same gains made by every opposition party after a new president, in every single case but two since the early 20th century. And I can't for the life of me figure out what that has to do with 68% of people opposing one particular mosque in a poll that was probably designed to be inflammatory and show people at their worst.
posted by drjimmy11 at 12:30 PM on August 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

I was trying to figure out what I wanted to say, but Pope Guilty did it for me.
posted by reductiondesign at 12:31 PM on August 11, 2010

How much longer before they start talking about final solutions to the "Muslim Problem"?

Who's "they?" I'm sure a few insane neo-nazis have discussed it at some point, but if you mean mainstream American politicians and citizens the answer is, "never, obviously."
posted by drjimmy11 at 12:32 PM on August 11, 2010

68% of America thinks the First Amendment is just for show.

Yup. 68% of those polled by CNN hate the First Amendment. They hate America! Why do they hate America, and why are we allowing those people to still live here? We should deport them to somewhere where only one religion is allowed, since that's apparently what would make them happy.
posted by rtha at 12:33 PM on August 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

I've gone from being upset about the ADL's original statement on the subject to being greatly disappointed that it still has traction.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 12:34 PM on August 11, 2010

Guys, guys, it's pretty obvious that Muslim vermin are the biggest exestential threat to our nation ever. So, I've got this great idea!

We should make Muslims wear little yellow crescents on their clothes (so we know who to search at checkpoints and stuff) and boycott their business. Then maybe we can pick a night and go around and smash all of the windows in their businesses. We can call it The Night of Totally Not Getting This Whole Historical Irony Thing.

I think it's really gonna work out.
posted by Azazel Fel at 12:34 PM on August 11, 2010 [8 favorites]

But one more marker between those on the left and those on the right. My main complaint about Cordoba is that like all the places throughout the land somehow connected to relgion they will get tax breaks galore and snag all the fine parking places.
posted by Postroad at 12:35 PM on August 11, 2010

That's exactly what I was trying to say, rtha, thanks for summing it up so succinctly.
posted by turaho at 12:35 PM on August 11, 2010

Who's "they?" I'm sure a few insane neo-nazis have discussed it at some point, but if you mean mainstream American politicians and citizens the answer is, "never, obviously."

I don't know if they're mainstream (yet) but I've seen many conservative bloggers openly call for the nuclear extermination of all Muslims. Andrew Sullivan once called for the nuclear bombing of Iraq if the Iraqi people resisted our invasion.
posted by Azazel Fel at 12:36 PM on August 11, 2010

If only the ADL had stood up to do the right thing. They used to stand up to bigotry.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:36 PM on August 11, 2010

And I can't for the life of me figure out what that has to do with 68% of people opposing one particular mosque in a poll that was probably designed to be inflammatory and show people at their worst.

Well, it's less to do with the poll than it is to do with Fischer himself. Fischer is speaking at the unofficially Republican-sponsored Value Voters Summit coming up next month, so it's not exactly opaque which party considers guys like Fisher's views to be acceptable mainstream political thought. It's kind of related that those same guys are likely going to have more political power soon.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:36 PM on August 11, 2010

I am totally down with this as long as it applies to all places of "worship."

Let's bring it all down.
posted by three blind mice at 12:37 PM on August 11, 2010

A national poll re district and state races? What's the point of that? Pew's never heard of the science that redistricting became so, so long ago?
posted by raysmj at 12:37 PM on August 11, 2010

Hm. Ultranationalism. Authoritarianism. Desire for a single-party state. Social darwinism. Propaganda. Anti-intellectualism. Militarism. Anti-communism. The use of despised minorities to make the case that somehow the organic body of the state is infected by the disease of outsiders, which must be expunged.

There was a political system that was defined by these, but it wasn't a Democratic Republic. What was it again? It's so hard to remember, it was so long ago.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:40 PM on August 11, 2010 [12 favorites]

I look forward to tomorrow's re-hashing of this subject that we all already agree on. Hopefully it'll contain even less statistical, more inflammatory polling.
posted by yerfatma at 12:40 PM on August 11, 2010 [2 favorites]

A recent widely reported CNN poll finds that 68% of Americans (of the 628 they polled) oppose the ecumenical, cross-cultural outreach oriented Cordoba House project.

Are people in Michigan still considered Americans?
posted by KokuRyu at 12:41 PM on August 11, 2010

65% of participants in Milgram's first experiment on authoritarianism pushed the electrical "shock" to a lethal 450 volts, despite the screaming.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 12:41 PM on August 11, 2010 [4 favorites]

They are currently using First Amendment freedoms to make plans to destroy the First Amendment altogether.

Ah ha! That explains all that cherry bomb target practice in those terrorist training camp videos.
posted by griphus at 12:41 PM on August 11, 2010

Stuff like this makes me sad and angry, but it's hardly surprising.

I used to have a wonderful, close relationship with my grandmother, but she's hardly talked to me in over a year since I started dating my boyfriend. Who is (non-religious, born-in-America) Iranian. And therefore must be a terrorist.

So as much as I'd like to get riled up about all the hate raining down about the mosque in NYC, it's not exactly shocking.
posted by phunniemee at 12:43 PM on August 11, 2010

Huh, Ray? The NES has been asking questions about congressional races for eons, even if their sample sizes within districts were usually terrible, and the CCES has expanded that into a core national survey with reasonable sample sizes within districts.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:44 PM on August 11, 2010

I wonder how this poll was worded. Does that 68% include people who felt "No I'd prefer not to see it, but that's too bad for me, because they're within their rights ?"
posted by tyllwin at 12:45 PM on August 11, 2010

God's turban and tutu! I'm about the nastiest, meanest, snarkiest, most unapologetic and shamelessly abusive atheistical bastard who ever lived, but this is just a monumental bag of raw stupid.
posted by Decani at 12:46 PM on August 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

Geez, this again? Is there really anything new to be said that wasn't said in the previous thread?
posted by resiny at 12:46 PM on August 11, 2010

Is there really anything new to be said that wasn't said in the previous thread?

Yes. That new thing is that a prominent right-wing activist is publicly calling for banning the construction of any more Mosques in America. Sorry if that wasn't clear somehow.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:49 PM on August 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

mosques = churches = synagogues = temples

Yay, no more religious institutions in the US!
posted by Eideteker at 12:50 PM on August 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

Also, this:

Fortunately, the whole point of the Constitution is that basic human rights aren't up for a vote.

Is silly. There have been some people advocating for taking legal action to prevent the mosque from being built. But a lot of people don't like it and that's all. I wouldn't like for a southern baptist megachurch to be built next door to me. I also wouldn't like for a really nice patch of woods a few miles down the road to be bulldozed for a gas station. In a poll I would say that I "oppose" such things. That doesn't make me a bigot and that doesn't mean I'm advocating anything unconstitutional.
posted by resiny at 12:50 PM on August 11, 2010 [2 favorites]

basic human rights aren't up for a vote.

It is easier to just ignore them.
posted by three blind mice at 12:51 PM on August 11, 2010

Disturbingly, it does not appear the 1009 people CNN polled are complete loons, as majorities also favor making gay marriage a constitutional right, and federal aid to support Medicaid, teacher salaries, and other public worker salaries.

But as Pope Guilty says, no one gets to vote on the First Amendment. Yay for the Founding Fathers!

Also, I read this today in the Economist and I liked it, so sharing it.
posted by bearwife at 12:51 PM on August 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

The same gains made by every opposition party after a new president, in every single case but two since the early 20th century.

In all fairness, a 9.2% unemployment rate isn't helping.

I don't know if they're mainstream (yet) but I've seen many conservative bloggers openly call for the nuclear extermination of all Muslims. Andrew Sullivan once called for the nuclear bombing of Iraq if the Iraqi people resisted our invasion.

LOL. That guy's really changed.
posted by delmoi at 12:56 PM on August 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

The previous thread is just over a week old. It's not a dead topic, by any means.

The Daily Show from yesterday (Tuesday) had a pretty good knock on this American Outrage from a number of angles, many covered in the previous thread and elsewhere, but I'll rehash them in this rehashing thread. 1) there is already a mosque four blocks away, that predates the World Trade Center. 2) This proposed building is a community center, open to all, and 3) there are many other "Muslim-like" presences in the area (in other words, kebab stands, vaguely Arabic-seeming text, and people who look generally middle-eastern). In short, people who live there don't really care, because it is already an area of mixed cultures, and it's going to be a friggin' community center on a friggin' side-street, not a giant minaret across from Ground Zero. (Also: mosques and Islamic centers are not welcomed with open arms in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, Sheboygan County, Wisconsin, and Temecula, California, amongst other places in the US.)

We all know where we stand, thanks to that other thread.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:58 PM on August 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

I really hate polls sometimes, because they never explain their methodology, or bury it. That's clearly 68% of respondents, but who are those respondents?

Was it a telephone poll? If so, youth and urban dwellers are under-counted, because they tend to have mobile phones.

Does that list of respondents include folks who said, "Fuck off" either because they think CNN sucks, or because they found the very line of questioning offensive?

Basically, it's not "68% of adults," it's "68% of adults who we could get to take this poll," which is gonna skew toward busy-bodies who want their opinions heard and have spare time, and tend to be a bit more conservative in lifestyle if it's a telephone poll.
posted by explosion at 12:59 PM on August 11, 2010

I agree.

No more mosques.

Also, no more churches, synagogues, meeting houses, or temples.

Did Simcity 2K teach you people nothing? If you want to get your arcologies to fly off into space, you can't waste any part of your residential zones!
posted by jenkinsEar at 12:59 PM on August 11, 2010 [3 favorites]

The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for giving to Mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens.

George Washington's Letter to a Newport Jewish congregation
posted by KirkJobSluder at 12:59 PM on August 11, 2010

All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.
posted by Salvor Hardin at 12:59 PM on August 11, 2010 [3 favorites]

But the issue here is a statement coming from a mainstream conservative leader to ban the construction of Mosques completely, filthy light thief. Though it's obviously related, it's a much more radical idea than opposing the construction of a single mosque.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:02 PM on August 11, 2010

They want to make distinctions about houses of worship based upon the faith? Well, if we are going to play that game, my indifference to the minutia of religions in general is going to lead to some interesting hostility when I start supporting this,

Because, man, they are going to get supremely pissed when I start referring to to their churches as Christian Mosques.
posted by quin at 1:02 PM on August 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

This is why our rights shouldn't be determined by a poll or a vote. (See also Prop 8)
posted by inturnaround at 1:02 PM on August 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

For some reason this whole episode reminds of the sad version of "America, Fuck Yeah."
posted by swift at 1:03 PM on August 11, 2010

Christopher Hitchens's take on the issue.
posted by Fizz at 1:05 PM on August 11, 2010

The poll details are located here. From this, we discover that the wording of the question is "As you may know, a group of Muslims in the U.S. plan to build a mosque two blocks from the site in New York City where the World Trade Center used to stand. Do you favor or oppose this plan?"

One wonders what the results would have been if the question had been worded truthfully, calling the cultural center a cultural center. Note this same poll has questions about attitudes on gay marriage (including analyzing the results of differing word choices in the questioning), citizenship for children of non-U.S. citizens born in the U.S., and Federal money for state needs.
posted by aught at 1:05 PM on August 11, 2010

(quietly hoping the AFA turns out to be a hoax by thechive.com)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:05 PM on August 11, 2010

RU: this is a purely national survey, with just a larger sample size than the norm. Tells us nothing except what groups may or may not bw more energize, what the national mood might be, etc., but doesn't say jack about the dynamics in individual races, And whatever the NES people do, I'm still closer to the "all politics is local" camp in my view of district races. I know some people who do polling research who find presidential polls uselessm btw, given the Electoral College vote. I'm not down with them there, but Cong. races? Yes.
posted by raysmj at 1:06 PM on August 11, 2010

Even 100% of 628 people is too ridiculously low a number to pay any attention to.
posted by hermitosis at 1:08 PM on August 11, 2010