Have a spectrum-quantized merry Christmas
December 15, 2010 5:06 PM Subscribe
Augmented reality for the color blind.
Dan Kaminsky (Metafilter's Own) has created a heads-up display for people with color blindness. It's an app available for your iPhone (now) and Android (soon). Guaranteed not to break the Internet.
Dan Kaminsky (Metafilter's Own) has created a heads-up display for people with color blindness. It's an app available for your iPhone (now) and Android (soon). Guaranteed not to break the Internet.
Holy shit. It works.
It WORKS. Not perfectly for my eyes, but still, it works pretty damned well.
I need a version of this filter I can install on my monitors and laptop, asap. And my tv. Wow.
That is so cool. Thanks for sharing this. Wish I could favorite it 1000 more times.
posted by zarq at 5:22 PM on December 15, 2010 [6 favorites]
It WORKS. Not perfectly for my eyes, but still, it works pretty damned well.
I need a version of this filter I can install on my monitors and laptop, asap. And my tv. Wow.
That is so cool. Thanks for sharing this. Wish I could favorite it 1000 more times.
posted by zarq at 5:22 PM on December 15, 2010 [6 favorites]
zarq--
Wow! Thanks! (This is Dan Kaminsky; this has been my side project for a while.)
DanKam's pretty tunable -- see the Advanced gear in the upper left corner. Feel free to explore, and let me know if any alternate settings work better than default!
Also, I could use photos of things you can't see without, and can see with. Send anything over to dan@doxpara.com.
posted by effugas at 5:29 PM on December 15, 2010 [13 favorites]
Wow! Thanks! (This is Dan Kaminsky; this has been my side project for a while.)
DanKam's pretty tunable -- see the Advanced gear in the upper left corner. Feel free to explore, and let me know if any alternate settings work better than default!
Also, I could use photos of things you can't see without, and can see with. Send anything over to dan@doxpara.com.
posted by effugas at 5:29 PM on December 15, 2010 [13 favorites]
Not color blind, but I did take my fair share of image processing classes in college. This is pretty cool! Pretty inspired idea to quantize the hue values.
posted by sbutler at 5:41 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by sbutler at 5:41 PM on December 15, 2010
This is really rad. I'm not colorblind, but I've just bought the app in the hopes that it'll be a redeeming point of conversation the next time I have a foot-in-mouth incident with my colorblind friends. Which as usual, will probably be right around Christmas.
posted by sawdustbear at 5:58 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by sawdustbear at 5:58 PM on December 15, 2010
i am not impressed. yes, i am colorblind, but have never found a disadvantage in it. i see what i see, the next person sees something a little different. no 2 people have ever seen the same thing, anyway.
posted by kitchenrat at 6:08 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by kitchenrat at 6:08 PM on December 15, 2010
I just sent this to my sister, and I'm waiting to hear back from her about it. She's colorblind, and weirdly so, but is a graphics designer and web dev. I'm curious to see what she says.
posted by strixus at 6:12 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by strixus at 6:12 PM on December 15, 2010
This is an extremely clever (and fascinating) approach. I'm not colorblind either and I'm very, very curious about the different ways it ends up getting used in practice.
posted by Songdog at 6:17 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by Songdog at 6:17 PM on December 15, 2010
kitchenrat--
Oh yeah, it's not a horribly debilitating condition. There are occasional confusions though, and I'm happy to fix them.
Does the app work for you?
posted by effugas at 6:17 PM on December 15, 2010
Oh yeah, it's not a horribly debilitating condition. There are occasional confusions though, and I'm happy to fix them.
Does the app work for you?
posted by effugas at 6:17 PM on December 15, 2010
This is very interesting. I've been toying with ideas of software for life improvement for a while now, partly as a seed of an idea to resurrect my Cocoa programming skills into iOS development, and this is a beautiful example of what I would love to accomplish. Bravo
posted by Space Coyote at 6:37 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by Space Coyote at 6:37 PM on December 15, 2010
Kitchenrat, I fail to understand how this creation would be offensive to people with colorblindness.
That said, I'm not colorblind, and I couldn't see the numbers in the "left" image at all.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:56 PM on December 15, 2010
That said, I'm not colorblind, and I couldn't see the numbers in the "left" image at all.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:56 PM on December 15, 2010
the app works well enough, but i think if a veil of colorblindness were held before the eyes of a non-affected person the reaction would be meh. i was not offended, by the way, just unimpressed
posted by kitchenrat at 7:03 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by kitchenrat at 7:03 PM on December 15, 2010
That said, I'm not colorblind, and I couldn't see the numbers in the "left" image at all.
Are you sure you're not colorblind? How do you know? The left-hand image is the standard test used by opticians to detect colorblindness. If you can't see the numbers, you're colorblind pretty much by definition. And just because you can tell the difference between red and green most of the time in practice doesn't mean that your color perception isn't somewhat abnormal.
Grain of salt, though: It could certainly be your monitor settings or something; there's a lot of variance from various sources in the way colors are displayed on computer screens. Still, I think there's cause for suspicion here.
posted by magnificent frigatebird at 7:07 PM on December 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Are you sure you're not colorblind? How do you know? The left-hand image is the standard test used by opticians to detect colorblindness. If you can't see the numbers, you're colorblind pretty much by definition. And just because you can tell the difference between red and green most of the time in practice doesn't mean that your color perception isn't somewhat abnormal.
Grain of salt, though: It could certainly be your monitor settings or something; there's a lot of variance from various sources in the way colors are displayed on computer screens. Still, I think there's cause for suspicion here.
posted by magnificent frigatebird at 7:07 PM on December 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
kitchenrat,
To be fair, color blindness is a spectrum disorder. There are some *very* light cases out there. You may very well be one of them.
posted by effugas at 7:17 PM on December 15, 2010
To be fair, color blindness is a spectrum disorder. There are some *very* light cases out there. You may very well be one of them.
posted by effugas at 7:17 PM on December 15, 2010
i think if a veil of colorblindness were held before the eyes of a non-affected person the reaction would be meh
I'd be interested in an app that simulated colour blindness. In my case it would just be out of curiosity, but I can see how someone working in design/usability, for instance, would find it useful.
posted by robcorr at 7:37 PM on December 15, 2010
I'd be interested in an app that simulated colour blindness. In my case it would just be out of curiosity, but I can see how someone working in design/usability, for instance, would find it useful.
posted by robcorr at 7:37 PM on December 15, 2010
That is amazing! I really wish I had an iPhone right now. I sent it to my friend who is also colorblind. He was really disappointed that he has to wait until after Christmas because he hacked his and can't get the update.
posted by Deflagro at 7:37 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by Deflagro at 7:37 PM on December 15, 2010
robcorr--
All the simulations I've found are desperately wrong -- they imply much more is changing than actually is. Just a warning.
posted by effugas at 7:45 PM on December 15, 2010
All the simulations I've found are desperately wrong -- they imply much more is changing than actually is. Just a warning.
posted by effugas at 7:45 PM on December 15, 2010
you know what else is a spectrum disorder? not liking cilantro
posted by kitchenrat at 7:53 PM on December 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by kitchenrat at 7:53 PM on December 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Weird. For people who aren't colorblind, how do the left and right images compare? I can see the numbers in the left, but it takes some time to discern. At first glance, it is just a confusing jumble, and then I look at the individual dots and see the differences, and then the numbers appear. Where the image on the right is completely clear. (The red appears to be shifted toward magenta?) Especially the top. Does this mean I
posted by gjc at 7:57 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by gjc at 7:57 PM on December 15, 2010
I'm sure there are zillions of practical applications for this but here's another one:
I didn't really understand that I was color blind (I mean I had some inkling, subtle problems with greens and reds, but I never perceived it as *that* different than the general population) until medical school, 1st year histology when we had to look at tons of hematoxylin and eosin stained microscope slides. I literally cannot tell the difference between the two colors. I blame my lack of an honors grade and my failure as a budding pathologist on this severe medical disability, but I suppose future generations will be spared the pain and suffering I have had to cope with.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 7:58 PM on December 15, 2010
I didn't really understand that I was color blind (I mean I had some inkling, subtle problems with greens and reds, but I never perceived it as *that* different than the general population) until medical school, 1st year histology when we had to look at tons of hematoxylin and eosin stained microscope slides. I literally cannot tell the difference between the two colors. I blame my lack of an honors grade and my failure as a budding pathologist on this severe medical disability, but I suppose future generations will be spared the pain and suffering I have had to cope with.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 7:58 PM on December 15, 2010
My story is not as nearly as bad as yours Slarty Bartfast, but in 8th grade when they made us color the flags of US History (I still don't know why we were coloring in 8th grade...) I colored the American Flag's stripes purple because it looked blue. I got called out on it when someone nearby noticed...
posted by Deflagro at 8:01 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by Deflagro at 8:01 PM on December 15, 2010
you know what else is a spectrum disorder? not liking cilantro
Kind of the opposite, though. Those with full-spectrum color sight don't get overwhelmed by "nasty-looking" colors. Those with the gene to taste cilantro do get overwhelmed by nasty-tasting cilantro.
posted by explosion at 8:10 PM on December 15, 2010
Kind of the opposite, though. Those with full-spectrum color sight don't get overwhelmed by "nasty-looking" colors. Those with the gene to taste cilantro do get overwhelmed by nasty-tasting cilantro.
posted by explosion at 8:10 PM on December 15, 2010
well into the 1800's hawaiians threw their colorblind offspring from cliffs thousands of feet above the thundering surf. in victorian england colorblind waifs were thought to enter sleeping rooms and change the chamber pot effluvium into a rainbow of colours. in the new american colonies the colorblind were used to identify witches in the population. colorblind african children are still being killed to harvest their organs to ward off the evil eye. and in china the eyes of colorblind virgins are ground into plasters to prevent impotence. god, how we have suffered!
posted by kitchenrat at 8:16 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by kitchenrat at 8:16 PM on December 15, 2010
The American flag's stripes are red and white.
After this, I think I might be just a little colorblind. I know I'm always one to question whether something is black or blue, it took me awhile to make out the numbers in the images above, and I suck at fashion. (Actually, that last one has nothing to do with colorblindness.)
posted by Night_owl at 8:21 PM on December 15, 2010
After this, I think I might be just a little colorblind. I know I'm always one to question whether something is black or blue, it took me awhile to make out the numbers in the images above, and I suck at fashion. (Actually, that last one has nothing to do with colorblindness.)
posted by Night_owl at 8:21 PM on December 15, 2010
This is cool! Just sent it to my colorblind dad to see if it works for him. When I was very small, I was confident that my parents could never divorce, because my mother had to pick out my father's clothes every day to make sure they matched. If they didn't live together, how would he get dressed in the morning? Totally reasonable to a 5-year-old.
posted by Fui Non Sum at 8:31 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by Fui Non Sum at 8:31 PM on December 15, 2010
Those with full-spectrum color sight don't get overwhelmed by "nasty-looking" colors. Those with the gene to taste cilantro do get overwhelmed by nasty-tasting cilantro.
Yellow is pretty annoying though.
posted by gjc at 8:32 PM on December 15, 2010
Yellow is pretty annoying though.
posted by gjc at 8:32 PM on December 15, 2010
Wow. Thank you. I'm not colorblind, but my 15 year old son is. I bought the app for him to experiment with. One day, he spilled some red kool-aid on my kitchen counter. The counter is made of that silestone epoxy pseudo granite stuff, which is flecked with many different colors. I must have asked him 5 times to clean up his mess before getting really frustrated and angry with him. I made him come into the kitchen and pointed right at the spill but he couldn't see a thing. Suddenly, the image of those color blindness test circles came to mind and I felt terrible. That's how I found out. Maybe I'll recreate, take a pic and play around with the app. You've made something good. Thank you.
posted by Shike at 9:12 PM on December 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Shike at 9:12 PM on December 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Are you sure you're not colorblind? How do you know?
I guess the answer is "how could I know," but I've done a lot of work in my lie which was dependent on color, and am highly sensitive to differences in color. Like gjc, I can pick out the numbers on the left panel if I'm looking for them, but I've done a lot of lighting design and other things of that nature, and the numbers there aren't obvious to me at all.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:19 PM on December 15, 2010
I guess the answer is "how could I know," but I've done a lot of work in my lie which was dependent on color, and am highly sensitive to differences in color. Like gjc, I can pick out the numbers on the left panel if I'm looking for them, but I've done a lot of lighting design and other things of that nature, and the numbers there aren't obvious to me at all.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:19 PM on December 15, 2010
The numbers are not obvious to me either :(
I have to try really hard and I can sort of make them out. Are there degrees to color blindness? Can someone be "kind of" color blind?
Another question I've always wondered about is the names of colors; I can sometimes tell a difference in tone or warmth between two colors but I can't name them: I can't tell whether one is green and the other yellow. Most of the time I just think that if they look similar they are just different shades of the same color. So I guess even though I can see them as slightly different the problem is naming the colors, so maybe it's just a lack of knowledge about the names?
Needless to say, colors are a bit of an annoying and stressful subject for me. I lack the confidence to pick and combine them (I'm an artist, so this gets frustrating).
I don't know, maybe I should ask more about this at the Ask section. :(
posted by fantodstic at 9:38 PM on December 15, 2010
I have to try really hard and I can sort of make them out. Are there degrees to color blindness? Can someone be "kind of" color blind?
Another question I've always wondered about is the names of colors; I can sometimes tell a difference in tone or warmth between two colors but I can't name them: I can't tell whether one is green and the other yellow. Most of the time I just think that if they look similar they are just different shades of the same color. So I guess even though I can see them as slightly different the problem is naming the colors, so maybe it's just a lack of knowledge about the names?
Needless to say, colors are a bit of an annoying and stressful subject for me. I lack the confidence to pick and combine them (I'm an artist, so this gets frustrating).
I don't know, maybe I should ask more about this at the Ask section. :(
posted by fantodstic at 9:38 PM on December 15, 2010
Are there degrees to color blindness? Can someone be "kind of" color blind?
Yes, some people are more colorblind than others. In addition, the numbers are not super obvious -- the pink dots and green dots are set around the same saturation so as to emphasize any deficiencies.
posted by me3dia at 9:48 PM on December 15, 2010
Yes, some people are more colorblind than others. In addition, the numbers are not super obvious -- the pink dots and green dots are set around the same saturation so as to emphasize any deficiencies.
posted by me3dia at 9:48 PM on December 15, 2010
god, how we have suffered!
What? I'm failing to see anyone argue that people who are color blind suffer terrible social or legal consequences. Just that it's a thing that can interfere with life stuff sometimes, severely or not, depending on your degree of colorblindness and choice of profession. I really don't get why you're so GRAR about what seems to be a very cool app that lets people see things differently from how they usually see them.
(I am anticipating receiving iTunes gift cards for xmas, and may well buy this app, although I am not color blind, because it's neat.)
posted by rtha at 10:08 PM on December 15, 2010
What? I'm failing to see anyone argue that people who are color blind suffer terrible social or legal consequences. Just that it's a thing that can interfere with life stuff sometimes, severely or not, depending on your degree of colorblindness and choice of profession. I really don't get why you're so GRAR about what seems to be a very cool app that lets people see things differently from how they usually see them.
(I am anticipating receiving iTunes gift cards for xmas, and may well buy this app, although I am not color blind, because it's neat.)
posted by rtha at 10:08 PM on December 15, 2010
In addition, the numbers are not super obvious -- the pink dots and green dots are set around the same saturation so as to emphasize any deficiencies.
Yeah, it could just be my new screen, but I feel like these numbers are harder to see than other images I've seen. The screenshots look pretty compressed, which I could see causing some issues.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:38 PM on December 15, 2010
Yeah, it could just be my new screen, but I feel like these numbers are harder to see than other images I've seen. The screenshots look pretty compressed, which I could see causing some issues.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:38 PM on December 15, 2010
Weird. For people who aren't colorblind, how do the left and right images compare? I can see the numbers in the left, but it takes some time to discern. At first glance, it is just a confusing jumble, and then I look at the individual dots and see the differences, and then the numbers appear. Where the image on the right is completely clear. (The red appears to be shifted toward magenta?) Especially the top.
Non-colorblind peep, here: the top numbers are immediate apparent to me. They don't jump out like they do in the right picture, but they're not a confusing jumble at all. They're there. Same with the lower number, but it takes me maybe an extra second to realize it.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:39 PM on December 15, 2010
Non-colorblind peep, here: the top numbers are immediate apparent to me. They don't jump out like they do in the right picture, but they're not a confusing jumble at all. They're there. Same with the lower number, but it takes me maybe an extra second to realize it.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:39 PM on December 15, 2010
Interesting. I've known I'm color blind since early childhood, so this app looks like it might be useful -- but in he sample image, I can only see the "45" in the upper right hand image, and nothing in the lower right hand or either of the left hand images. Still, might be worth a try, especially since I'm a network engineer by trade, and often have to do cabling and work up custom ethernet cables. I can never tell the difference between the green and brown wires.
posted by Blackanvil at 10:42 PM on December 15, 2010
posted by Blackanvil at 10:42 PM on December 15, 2010
I worked with a colorblind network guy who only got about 1 in 4 cables right. I wanted to get him some kind of glasses with different color filters for the right vs. left eye (they do make these), but I moved to a different office before I got around to it.
I always wanted to try to design an app that generated images that only colorblind people could read.
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:39 PM on December 15, 2010
I always wanted to try to design an app that generated images that only colorblind people could read.
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:39 PM on December 15, 2010
I'd like to try this sometime. Like zarq and some others on this thread, I am colorblind, but not in one of the more common ways (if I remember correctly, I'm protanopic, deuteranomalous and tritanomalous; effectively, I can only reliably see the color blue.) I'd be interested to see if/how well it works for me.
posted by kyrademon at 12:23 AM on December 16, 2010
posted by kyrademon at 12:23 AM on December 16, 2010
This is a cool idea for an app — I've been fascinated with color vision since I had a colorblind boyfriend a few years ago and pestered him with questions until I understood what colors he could distinguish and couldn't.
For people who are curious about their color vision, the Farnsworth Munsell 100 Hue test is fun (well, in a slightly frustrating kind of way). It probably helps to have a well-calibrated monitor. And Vischeck is my go-to site for simulations of what images (and websites) approximately look like for different kinds of colorblindness.
posted by dreamyshade at 1:31 AM on December 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
For people who are curious about their color vision, the Farnsworth Munsell 100 Hue test is fun (well, in a slightly frustrating kind of way). It probably helps to have a well-calibrated monitor. And Vischeck is my go-to site for simulations of what images (and websites) approximately look like for different kinds of colorblindness.
posted by dreamyshade at 1:31 AM on December 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
dreamyshade... I wouldn't say the Farnsworth is exactly fun. But then again, it is thus far one of the few tools that lets one know exactly how greatly one is colour-hindered.
I've often wonder what the benefits are to being colour blind. Besides the obvious night-vision sniper story all colourblind people seem to latch on to.
"You cannot dress yourself"
"Maybe not, but I can snipe The Enemy over a great distance"
Regardless, colourblindness is a tricky one -- especially in a world where design is becoming more and more relevant for basic tasks. When I first arrived in London, someone told me their tube stop was off the brown line. Sadly, the Central line and Bakerloo looked exactly the same.
That being said, it is possible to train one's self to better recognise colour. I took two shades that seemed nearly identical (slightly lightened green and slightly darkened green), validated them with a flatmate and spent about a month focusing on the nuances. What has resulted is a cognitive ability to separate them. It takes about a billion times longer than for a non colourblind person but it is possible.
The funny thing is that I never had a problem with the dot tests as a youth. The problem reared it's coloured head in college, exemplified by a fundamental inability to match subtle shades of green or to see the striking contrast between green and red ("you look like Christmas itself, man...").
Yeah, but I can snipe The Enemy over a great distance.
posted by nickrussell at 2:31 AM on December 16, 2010
I've often wonder what the benefits are to being colour blind. Besides the obvious night-vision sniper story all colourblind people seem to latch on to.
"You cannot dress yourself"
"Maybe not, but I can snipe The Enemy over a great distance"
Regardless, colourblindness is a tricky one -- especially in a world where design is becoming more and more relevant for basic tasks. When I first arrived in London, someone told me their tube stop was off the brown line. Sadly, the Central line and Bakerloo looked exactly the same.
That being said, it is possible to train one's self to better recognise colour. I took two shades that seemed nearly identical (slightly lightened green and slightly darkened green), validated them with a flatmate and spent about a month focusing on the nuances. What has resulted is a cognitive ability to separate them. It takes about a billion times longer than for a non colourblind person but it is possible.
The funny thing is that I never had a problem with the dot tests as a youth. The problem reared it's coloured head in college, exemplified by a fundamental inability to match subtle shades of green or to see the striking contrast between green and red ("you look like Christmas itself, man...").
Yeah, but I can snipe The Enemy over a great distance.
posted by nickrussell at 2:31 AM on December 16, 2010
If you're not sure if you're colorblind or not, take this test, it's very thorough. I got 0% on everything - although some shapes are harder to parse than others to me.
posted by Baldons at 2:50 AM on December 16, 2010
posted by Baldons at 2:50 AM on December 16, 2010
My PhD adviser, with whom I worked on numerous graph coloring problems, is extremely colorblind. There are only so many different line patterns (dashed, squiggled, doubled) that you can use on the board before it becomes a mess, and since many PowerPoint/Beamer presentations involve color distinction it's easy to miss things. This would actually be useful, honestly _useful_ for him. I'll pass it on, but I don't think he's an iPhone user. Also, I ran into an issue just last week with presenting a rotating solid on the overhead that a calc student couldn't parse.
posted by monkeymadness at 3:17 AM on December 16, 2010
posted by monkeymadness at 3:17 AM on December 16, 2010
Orion slave girl in a bikini!...
Sorry, what was the article about again?
posted by Mike D at 4:53 AM on December 16, 2010
Sorry, what was the article about again?
posted by Mike D at 4:53 AM on December 16, 2010
Couple interesting notes:
1) It's very clear that the New York MTA has tested with the color blind. My app generates about 8 unique colors for their lines; the actual number of uniques is 9 and they are all visible to my color blind subjects. Good work there.
2) My sample set has been limited -- n=50. All the wild and wooly variants of color blindness, including those that cause the top image to be visible but the bottom one not, these are things I'd love to know more about. DanKam has a number of filters, with a number of variant modes, with the full internal settings exposed, to try to adjust to your particular vision. It'd be great to work with more people to create perhaps crowdsourced presets.
3) The biggest thing I need are real world photos that contain things you'd like to see, but can't. Resistor codes are a good one, though they're a bit tricky (they're small, and in dark places, and use of the light tends to blow things out due to shinyness). I actually had help from this awesome hasidic electrician who went by the name of Laser, who needed the app for differentiating wire colors. The app worked for him!
posted by effugas at 5:18 AM on December 16, 2010
1) It's very clear that the New York MTA has tested with the color blind. My app generates about 8 unique colors for their lines; the actual number of uniques is 9 and they are all visible to my color blind subjects. Good work there.
2) My sample set has been limited -- n=50. All the wild and wooly variants of color blindness, including those that cause the top image to be visible but the bottom one not, these are things I'd love to know more about. DanKam has a number of filters, with a number of variant modes, with the full internal settings exposed, to try to adjust to your particular vision. It'd be great to work with more people to create perhaps crowdsourced presets.
3) The biggest thing I need are real world photos that contain things you'd like to see, but can't. Resistor codes are a good one, though they're a bit tricky (they're small, and in dark places, and use of the light tends to blow things out due to shinyness). I actually had help from this awesome hasidic electrician who went by the name of Laser, who needed the app for differentiating wire colors. The app worked for him!
posted by effugas at 5:18 AM on December 16, 2010
I'm so buying this as soon as the android version is available. /Awesome./
And yeah, I have the usual colorblindness stories of class (intro EE - damn resistors - and intro computational biology especially), of my parents thinking I'd learned my colors wrong until I got tested when I was eighteen. And driving - seeing a red stop sign in front of green bushes is tricky, and I have a lot of trouble at night distinguishing red stoplights from green ones from white streetlights.
These days, about the only things I haven't got a satisfactory workaround for are status lights; I just have to put my face right up against them before they make any sense.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 5:18 AM on December 16, 2010
And yeah, I have the usual colorblindness stories of class (intro EE - damn resistors - and intro computational biology especially), of my parents thinking I'd learned my colors wrong until I got tested when I was eighteen. And driving - seeing a red stop sign in front of green bushes is tricky, and I have a lot of trouble at night distinguishing red stoplights from green ones from white streetlights.
These days, about the only things I haven't got a satisfactory workaround for are status lights; I just have to put my face right up against them before they make any sense.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 5:18 AM on December 16, 2010
Slarty--
About 14% of medical diagnostics cite skin tone -- pale, flush, green, yellow, etc -- and in fact, it looks like we have red vs. green color recognition specifically because it's a form of pulse oximetry. (The spectral peaks on our receptors, and the spectral peaks of oxygenated vs. deoxygenated blood, have pretty much perfect agreement.)
The use you specify is cool!
posted by effugas at 5:20 AM on December 16, 2010
About 14% of medical diagnostics cite skin tone -- pale, flush, green, yellow, etc -- and in fact, it looks like we have red vs. green color recognition specifically because it's a form of pulse oximetry. (The spectral peaks on our receptors, and the spectral peaks of oxygenated vs. deoxygenated blood, have pretty much perfect agreement.)
The use you specify is cool!
posted by effugas at 5:20 AM on December 16, 2010
The app works. But. The world has always looked like this to me. I adapted a long time ago. I don't feel like I'm missing anything by not seeing color like other people. Though it is nice that something like this exists because I know that not everyone thinks the way I do.
posted by tommasz at 6:18 AM on December 16, 2010
posted by tommasz at 6:18 AM on December 16, 2010
effugas: " Also, I could use photos of things you can't see without, and can see with. Send anything over to dan@doxpara.com."
NP. Will see if I can come up with anything. :)
posted by zarq at 6:46 AM on December 16, 2010
NP. Will see if I can come up with anything. :)
posted by zarq at 6:46 AM on December 16, 2010
nickrussell: " I've often wonder what the benefits are to being colour blind. Besides the obvious night-vision sniper story all colourblind people seem to latch on to."
It served my grandfather reasonably well in WWII.
Other than that, it can be mildly annoying.
posted by zarq at 6:48 AM on December 16, 2010
It served my grandfather reasonably well in WWII.
Other than that, it can be mildly annoying.
posted by zarq at 6:48 AM on December 16, 2010
and I have a lot of trouble at night distinguishing red stoplights from green ones from white streetlights.
This is one of the things I've always wondered about colorblindness. I can wrap my head around normal, everyday reflective color being not there (or less there), but what would a light source look like? Is it white? Gray? Just not there? My brain refuses to conceptualize a gray light source. I'm thinking of a bright point source like an LED.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 6:58 AM on December 16, 2010
This is one of the things I've always wondered about colorblindness. I can wrap my head around normal, everyday reflective color being not there (or less there), but what would a light source look like? Is it white? Gray? Just not there? My brain refuses to conceptualize a gray light source. I'm thinking of a bright point source like an LED.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 6:58 AM on December 16, 2010
You can't conceptualize a gray light source, ArgentCorvid? Think of a tinted light bulb. Instead of tinting it red or blue, tint it gray.
Bear in mind, most people are not *completely* colorblind. "Color deficient" would probably be more accurate, in general. Colors that look like several different colors might look like just one color, or in some cases one color looks like a different one.
Or so I've heard, anyway. I have a particularly extreme case of it that basically makes me see the world in black and white and blue. I've been informed that I basically live in a Wim Wenders film.
posted by kyrademon at 7:08 AM on December 16, 2010
Bear in mind, most people are not *completely* colorblind. "Color deficient" would probably be more accurate, in general. Colors that look like several different colors might look like just one color, or in some cases one color looks like a different one.
Or so I've heard, anyway. I have a particularly extreme case of it that basically makes me see the world in black and white and blue. I've been informed that I basically live in a Wim Wenders film.
posted by kyrademon at 7:08 AM on December 16, 2010
Argent--
A gray light source? Think about gray on a monitor.
What's happening is that the signal sent back from your optic nerve is Red minus Green. So, if the two sensors are too close to eachother, R-G==0 for quite a few values R and G. If there's also no difference between Blue and Orange, you get a fairly clean gray.
posted by effugas at 7:10 AM on December 16, 2010
A gray light source? Think about gray on a monitor.
What's happening is that the signal sent back from your optic nerve is Red minus Green. So, if the two sensors are too close to eachother, R-G==0 for quite a few values R and G. If there's also no difference between Blue and Orange, you get a fairly clean gray.
posted by effugas at 7:10 AM on December 16, 2010
kyra--
What do the images in the main URL look like to you?
posted by effugas at 7:11 AM on December 16, 2010
What do the images in the main URL look like to you?
posted by effugas at 7:11 AM on December 16, 2010
Nifty!
About 20 years ago, I worked at Adobe in the PostScript printer department. Trivia: the original color extensions added to PostScript were done by a guy who was colorblind. He totally changed how I build UI - if he had to burn ROMs for a printer he was working on, this was his process:
He couldn't tell red from green and so was SOL for determining if a ROM had failed to burn, so 100% of the time he had to get someone to check if a failure with a 3% probability happened.
A better solution would be to use a single color LED that was set to blink for 1/8 second every 2 seconds for working, blink 1/2 second on 1/2 second off for fail and be lit solidly for success, no light for no device. The irony is that this solution, while more expensive in engineering (and honestly, not that much), would be cheaper to produce as you're using single color LEDs which are marginally cheaper but keeps the trace count down on the controller.
Because of that experience, I carry that over into whatever UI I work on (or consult with peers) to ensure that color is never the sole indicator, but also shape and if space permits, words.
posted by plinth at 7:22 AM on December 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
About 20 years ago, I worked at Adobe in the PostScript printer department. Trivia: the original color extensions added to PostScript were done by a guy who was colorblind. He totally changed how I build UI - if he had to burn ROMs for a printer he was working on, this was his process:
- Load ROMs into burner
- Download code to burner
- Flip the lock lever that started the burn
- Go get someone to tell him if the ROMs burned correctly
He couldn't tell red from green and so was SOL for determining if a ROM had failed to burn, so 100% of the time he had to get someone to check if a failure with a 3% probability happened.
A better solution would be to use a single color LED that was set to blink for 1/8 second every 2 seconds for working, blink 1/2 second on 1/2 second off for fail and be lit solidly for success, no light for no device. The irony is that this solution, while more expensive in engineering (and honestly, not that much), would be cheaper to produce as you're using single color LEDs which are marginally cheaper but keeps the trace count down on the controller.
Because of that experience, I carry that over into whatever UI I work on (or consult with peers) to ensure that color is never the sole indicator, but also shape and if space permits, words.
posted by plinth at 7:22 AM on December 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
Agentcorvid- the eyes have two different systems for seeing. There are the dark versus light, and then there are the color tones that get overlayed. For someone who has zero color recognizing ability, it would look sort of like a black and white photo, where a gray light is possible. As ability to recognize color increases, the colors start to appear. They are brightness sensors, so brightness can still be seen. Same with reflective colors- they will see that light is reflecting off of a thing, but just not what color it is.
The point of this app is for people with this intermediate sort of color blindness. They can tell the difference between some form of "pure" red and "pure" green. So this app takes anything that is greenish and makes it GREEN, and anything that is reddish and makes it RED.
posted by gjc at 7:26 AM on December 16, 2010
The point of this app is for people with this intermediate sort of color blindness. They can tell the difference between some form of "pure" red and "pure" green. So this app takes anything that is greenish and makes it GREEN, and anything that is reddish and makes it RED.
posted by gjc at 7:26 AM on December 16, 2010
This is one of the things I've always wondered about colorblindness. I can wrap my head around normal, everyday reflective color being not there (or less there), but what would a light source look like? Is it white? Gray? Just not there? My brain refuses to conceptualize a gray light source. I'm thinking of a bright point source like an LED.
Green traffic lights look white to me. I can't see the green tint.
I am usually good at identifying bright colors although I can't see purple at all As bright colors shade into darker shades and duller pastels, I begin to lose the ability to distinguish them. So this is clearly green. This still looks green, but I might mistake it for brown or a dark tan. (Context helps.) This looks brown. This looks yellow. This and this look tan.
Google claims they're all green. Go figure.
posted by zarq at 7:29 AM on December 16, 2010
Green traffic lights look white to me. I can't see the green tint.
I am usually good at identifying bright colors although I can't see purple at all As bright colors shade into darker shades and duller pastels, I begin to lose the ability to distinguish them. So this is clearly green. This still looks green, but I might mistake it for brown or a dark tan. (Context helps.) This looks brown. This looks yellow. This and this look tan.
Google claims they're all green. Go figure.
posted by zarq at 7:29 AM on December 16, 2010
I have an idea for people who have trouble with red/green status lights: Carry around a small piece of transparent red or green plastic, and hold it in front of the status light you want to read. If the color of the light matches the color of the plastic, the light should shine right through the plastic. If the colors don't match, the brightness will be greatly diminished.
I have thought about applying to same principle to distinguish things like mixed red and blue light from true violet light, but I've never bothered to try it out since I have no use for it.
posted by shponglespore at 9:16 AM on December 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have thought about applying to same principle to distinguish things like mixed red and blue light from true violet light, but I've never bothered to try it out since I have no use for it.
posted by shponglespore at 9:16 AM on December 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
the eyes have two different systems for seeing
This helped, thanks. I knew about that and have even noticed it in low light conditions, but never really considered that they both worked all the time instead of switching over. Which actually seems kind of obvious and dumb of me in hindsight.
A gray light source? Think about gray on a monitor.
Think of a tinted light bulb. Instead of tinting it red or blue, tint it gray
It was confusing to me because I was trying to think of "Bright Gray", which doesn't really exist, other than being white. The gray on a monitor doesn't really work though, because it is just a combination of colors that looks like gray (right?).
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:35 AM on December 16, 2010
This helped, thanks. I knew about that and have even noticed it in low light conditions, but never really considered that they both worked all the time instead of switching over. Which actually seems kind of obvious and dumb of me in hindsight.
A gray light source? Think about gray on a monitor.
Think of a tinted light bulb. Instead of tinting it red or blue, tint it gray
It was confusing to me because I was trying to think of "Bright Gray", which doesn't really exist, other than being white. The gray on a monitor doesn't really work though, because it is just a combination of colors that looks like gray (right?).
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:35 AM on December 16, 2010
Argent--
Things are grey when there's a brighter region that establishes a "white point", but then a not-as-bright region that doesn't have any particular peaks in color (is fully desaturated).
posted by effugas at 9:52 AM on December 16, 2010
Things are grey when there's a brighter region that establishes a "white point", but then a not-as-bright region that doesn't have any particular peaks in color (is fully desaturated).
posted by effugas at 9:52 AM on December 16, 2010
gjc--
For reasons I can't understand, DanKam is working for everyone.
Protanopes, deuteranopes...
I mean, the scientists are telling me this.
It's super weird.
posted by effugas at 9:38 PM on December 16, 2010
For reasons I can't understand, DanKam is working for everyone.
Protanopes, deuteranopes...
I mean, the scientists are telling me this.
It's super weird.
posted by effugas at 9:38 PM on December 16, 2010
effugas --
Regarding the images in the main URL:
1) The two Orion girl pictures look identical to me. No "the jacket isn't red in this one" for me -- they are completely the same.
2) However, on the top pictures, I can't see the numbers on the left, and I can see the numbers on the right.
May I ask -- in layman's terms, what is the difference between the left pictures and the right pictures? I know that the colors have been "quantized", but is there any difference in tint, saturation, or anything other than color? I think I understand why this might work even for me, but I'd like to know the details to be sure ...
posted by kyrademon at 5:45 AM on December 17, 2010
Regarding the images in the main URL:
1) The two Orion girl pictures look identical to me. No "the jacket isn't red in this one" for me -- they are completely the same.
2) However, on the top pictures, I can't see the numbers on the left, and I can see the numbers on the right.
May I ask -- in layman's terms, what is the difference between the left pictures and the right pictures? I know that the colors have been "quantized", but is there any difference in tint, saturation, or anything other than color? I think I understand why this might work even for me, but I'd like to know the details to be sure ...
posted by kyrademon at 5:45 AM on December 17, 2010
kyra--
1) All reds have been made the same red, greens the same green, etc
2) Reds have been shifted towards pink, greens towards cyan
3) All colors have been made more saturated, i.e. less pastel
Regarding the Orion girl, what about:
http://i.imgur.com/oIQrd.png
posted by effugas at 7:22 AM on December 17, 2010
1) All reds have been made the same red, greens the same green, etc
2) Reds have been shifted towards pink, greens towards cyan
3) All colors have been made more saturated, i.e. less pastel
Regarding the Orion girl, what about:
http://i.imgur.com/oIQrd.png
posted by effugas at 7:22 AM on December 17, 2010
Girl's skin: Pretty much the same in all three images
Girl's hair: In the third image you have just posted, looks different from the first two, in a way that I would consider it to be a "different color" of some kind. In the first two images, her hair appears to me to be roughly the "same color" as her skin, although darker. In the third image, it is clearly different.
Background: Looks different in the third image; again, I would consider it to be a "different color". I would judge the background in the third image to be the same color as her hair, but a different color from her skin.
posted by kyrademon at 9:26 AM on December 17, 2010
Girl's hair: In the third image you have just posted, looks different from the first two, in a way that I would consider it to be a "different color" of some kind. In the first two images, her hair appears to me to be roughly the "same color" as her skin, although darker. In the third image, it is clearly different.
Background: Looks different in the third image; again, I would consider it to be a "different color". I would judge the background in the third image to be the same color as her hair, but a different color from her skin.
posted by kyrademon at 9:26 AM on December 17, 2010
So interesting. I don't see the images the way you do, kyrademon. Like cats, brains and eyes are weird!
posted by rtha at 9:40 AM on December 17, 2010
posted by rtha at 9:40 AM on December 17, 2010
Kyra,
Thanks so much for letting me borrow your eyes!
Here's the DanKam filter at maximum: http://imgur.com/CAuuS
And here's the "last ditch" HueWindow effect, that basically has you seeing one color at a time:
Reds: http://imgur.com/hWyon
Oranges: http://imgur.com/NBLc3
Greens: http://imgur.com/wv7Xz
Interesting? Surprising? Remember, you can't be wrong :)
posted by effugas at 9:46 AM on December 17, 2010
Thanks so much for letting me borrow your eyes!
Here's the DanKam filter at maximum: http://imgur.com/CAuuS
And here's the "last ditch" HueWindow effect, that basically has you seeing one color at a time:
Reds: http://imgur.com/hWyon
Oranges: http://imgur.com/NBLc3
Greens: http://imgur.com/wv7Xz
Interesting? Surprising? Remember, you can't be wrong :)
posted by effugas at 9:46 AM on December 17, 2010
what is the difference between the left pictures and the right pictures?
All the colors in the right-hand images are more saturated. The 45 and the background of the 6 are pale orange or tan on the left and magenta (or pink) on the right. The background of 45 and figure of 6 are both green, slightly more cyan on the right. (I wouldn't have noticed this if effugas hadn't pointed this out.) The yellow spots in the background of 6 are redder (more yellow-orange) on the left.
Optically orange is light red (pink) with just a hint of green, and the green in the original is kind of yellowish, that is, green with a hint of red. (If you're mixing colored light, yellow is red and green in about equal amounts, orange is red with a bit of green, and pink is light red with maybe a hint of blue.) So basically, in the right-hand images, orange and yellowish green are pulled apart, and have almost no overlap, and both have a bit of blue added. Yellow, which is in between, has no blue added and is a bit redder. This makes the colors in the red-pink orange-yellow-green range easier to tell apart. A real red in this adjustment (which doesn't occur in the original images) would probably be almost purple.
Think if you took a color wheel and stretched it in between green and red, at about the separation point between green and yellow, mostly by yanking on the red.
Does this make sense? I'll go look at the other images.
posted by nangar at 11:50 AM on December 17, 2010
All the colors in the right-hand images are more saturated. The 45 and the background of the 6 are pale orange or tan on the left and magenta (or pink) on the right. The background of 45 and figure of 6 are both green, slightly more cyan on the right. (I wouldn't have noticed this if effugas hadn't pointed this out.) The yellow spots in the background of 6 are redder (more yellow-orange) on the left.
Optically orange is light red (pink) with just a hint of green, and the green in the original is kind of yellowish, that is, green with a hint of red. (If you're mixing colored light, yellow is red and green in about equal amounts, orange is red with a bit of green, and pink is light red with maybe a hint of blue.) So basically, in the right-hand images, orange and yellowish green are pulled apart, and have almost no overlap, and both have a bit of blue added. Yellow, which is in between, has no blue added and is a bit redder. This makes the colors in the red-pink orange-yellow-green range easier to tell apart. A real red in this adjustment (which doesn't occur in the original images) would probably be almost purple.
Think if you took a color wheel and stretched it in between green and red, at about the separation point between green and yellow, mostly by yanking on the red.
Does this make sense? I'll go look at the other images.
posted by nangar at 11:50 AM on December 17, 2010
For reasons I can't understand, DanKam is working for everyone.
That's awesome! Good idea, and great job making it work!
posted by gjc at 8:20 PM on December 17, 2010
That's awesome! Good idea, and great job making it work!
posted by gjc at 8:20 PM on December 17, 2010
I wish Android Market let you give gift certificates. I'd love to get this app for a friend as a Christmas present.
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:14 PM on December 17, 2010
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:14 PM on December 17, 2010
« Older Fold point A to meet point B, crease. | Trick My Brick Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by effugas at 5:17 PM on December 15, 2010