US Voters Grossly Misinformed
December 19, 2010 1:54 PM Subscribe
Misinformation and the 2010 Election - A Study of the US Electorate. The key findings of the study are:
1. Perceptions of Misleading and False Information An overwhelming majority of voters said that they encountered misleading or false information in the last election, with a majority saying that this occurred frequently and occurred more frequently than usual.
2. Evidence of Misinformation Among Voters The poll found strong evidence that voters were substantially misinformed on many of the issues prominent in the election campaign, including the stimulus legislation, the healthcare reform law, TARP, the state of the economy, climate change, campaign contributions by the US Chamber of Commerce and President Obama’s birthplace. In particular, voters had perceptions about the expert opinion of economists and other scientists that were quite different from actual expert opinion.
3. Variations in Misinformation By Voting Behavior
There were significant differences between those who voted Democratic and Republican in the level
of misinformation on various issues that were prominent in the campaign and that respondents said
were important in shaping their votes.
4. Variations in Misinformation by Exposure to News Sources
Consumers of all sources of media evidenced substantial misinformation, suggesting that false or
misleading information is widespread in the general information environment, just as voters say they perceive it to be. In most cases increasing exposure to news sources decreased misinformation; however, for some news sources on some issues, higher levels of exposure increased misinformation
One interesting finding that has been widely crowed all over the liberal blogs:
In the great majority of cases, those with higher levels of exposure to news sources had lower levels of misinformation. There were however a number of cases where greater exposure to a news source increased misinformation on a specific issue. Those who watched Fox News almost daily were significantly more likely than those who never watched it to believe that:
- most economists estimate the stimulus caused job losses (12 points more likely) ƒ
- most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points)
- the economy is getting worse (26 points)
- most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points)
- the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (14 points)
- their own income taxes have gone up (14 points)
- the auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points)
ƒ- when TARP came up for a vote most Republicans opposed it (12 points)
- and that it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points)
1. Perceptions of Misleading and False Information An overwhelming majority of voters said that they encountered misleading or false information in the last election, with a majority saying that this occurred frequently and occurred more frequently than usual.
2. Evidence of Misinformation Among Voters The poll found strong evidence that voters were substantially misinformed on many of the issues prominent in the election campaign, including the stimulus legislation, the healthcare reform law, TARP, the state of the economy, climate change, campaign contributions by the US Chamber of Commerce and President Obama’s birthplace. In particular, voters had perceptions about the expert opinion of economists and other scientists that were quite different from actual expert opinion.
3. Variations in Misinformation By Voting Behavior
There were significant differences between those who voted Democratic and Republican in the level
of misinformation on various issues that were prominent in the campaign and that respondents said
were important in shaping their votes.
4. Variations in Misinformation by Exposure to News Sources
Consumers of all sources of media evidenced substantial misinformation, suggesting that false or
misleading information is widespread in the general information environment, just as voters say they perceive it to be. In most cases increasing exposure to news sources decreased misinformation; however, for some news sources on some issues, higher levels of exposure increased misinformation
One interesting finding that has been widely crowed all over the liberal blogs:
In the great majority of cases, those with higher levels of exposure to news sources had lower levels of misinformation. There were however a number of cases where greater exposure to a news source increased misinformation on a specific issue. Those who watched Fox News almost daily were significantly more likely than those who never watched it to believe that:
- most economists estimate the stimulus caused job losses (12 points more likely) ƒ
- most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points)
- the economy is getting worse (26 points)
- most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points)
- the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (14 points)
- their own income taxes have gone up (14 points)
- the auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points)
ƒ- when TARP came up for a vote most Republicans opposed it (12 points)
- and that it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points)
I just got back from two weeks in Kenya; my joke-explanation is that I was searching the national archives for Obama's birth certificate.
(I did actually visit the high school where B. Obama Senior attended, just because it was right next door to the university I was visiting.)
posted by kaibutsu at 2:06 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
(I did actually visit the high school where B. Obama Senior attended, just because it was right next door to the university I was visiting.)
posted by kaibutsu at 2:06 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Could you have a mod add that your link up there immediately downloads a PDF onto your computer? For those of us who like to be given a heads up about that sort of thing.
posted by jeanmari at 2:14 PM on December 19, 2010
posted by jeanmari at 2:14 PM on December 19, 2010
purchasing a cable TV network is a highly successful way to influence political events.
it's a helluva lot more efficient than the way they used to do it, riding your horse for days, tacking up handbills outside the saloons and churches, or passin' 'em out at the town pump. some things change, some don't.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:16 PM on December 19, 2010
it's a helluva lot more efficient than the way they used to do it, riding your horse for days, tacking up handbills outside the saloons and churches, or passin' 'em out at the town pump. some things change, some don't.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:16 PM on December 19, 2010
Could you have a mod add that your link up there immediately downloads a PDF onto your computer? For those of us who like to be given a heads up about that sort of thing.
everything you see on the web has just been immediately downloaded onto your computer. if it hadn't been downloaded onto your computer, how could you be looking at it?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:19 PM on December 19, 2010 [9 favorites]
everything you see on the web has just been immediately downloaded onto your computer. if it hadn't been downloaded onto your computer, how could you be looking at it?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:19 PM on December 19, 2010 [9 favorites]
everything you see on the web has just been immediately downloaded onto your computer.
The problem isn't with the downloading, the problem is with the .pdf.
posted by Slap*Happy at 2:24 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
The problem isn't with the downloading, the problem is with the .pdf.
posted by Slap*Happy at 2:24 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Some of the key correct answers with proportion picking them:
Is it your impression that most economists who have studied it estimate that the stimulus legislation... saved or created several million jobs: 8%
Is it your impression that among economists who have estimated the effect of the health reform law on the federal budget deficit over the next ten years... more think it will not increase the deficit: 13%
Since January 2009 have your federal income taxes... gone down: 10%
Remind me again how democracy is supposed to work when seven out of eight voters don't even understand the basic issues in the election?
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 2:26 PM on December 19, 2010 [14 favorites]
Is it your impression that most economists who have studied it estimate that the stimulus legislation... saved or created several million jobs: 8%
Is it your impression that among economists who have estimated the effect of the health reform law on the federal budget deficit over the next ten years... more think it will not increase the deficit: 13%
Since January 2009 have your federal income taxes... gone down: 10%
Remind me again how democracy is supposed to work when seven out of eight voters don't even understand the basic issues in the election?
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 2:26 PM on December 19, 2010 [14 favorites]
I just finished reading the Yahoo News comments about the DADT repeal (*bleaches brain*), and one of the interesting things for me was seeing how many posters were wailing about "Congress running roughshod over the will of the people!" or similar thoughts.
Something like between 60 and 80% of the American people support allowing gays and lesbians to openly serve in the military. Obviously, repealing DADT is the overwhelming will of the American people.
Unless, of course, you live in some kind of reality-distortion field where you, your drinking buddies, Fox News and Jesus compromise "The American People" in it's entierety.
And the thing is, there are a lot of people living in that exact reality-distortion field. You can call repealing DADT whatever you want, but it's certainly not anti-democratic or fascistic. I guess I'm just amazed at Fox News' ability to call black white and turn up into down. They could run an unsourced story about gay Muslim Mexicans sneaking plutonium into the US in their jockstraps and many millions of people will believe it without question. Not only will they believe it, but it will become a GOP talking point, with Repub congressmen asking Obama why he isn't pulling out all the stops to prevent a gay Muslim Hiroshima in our fair land.
That kind of power is monumental. It's cosmic. It's the ability to say something patently stupid and false and then make it be true just by saying it.
This is the power of Gods, my friends. Evil, twisted Gods from deepest R'yleh.
posted by Avenger at 2:27 PM on December 19, 2010 [48 favorites]
Something like between 60 and 80% of the American people support allowing gays and lesbians to openly serve in the military. Obviously, repealing DADT is the overwhelming will of the American people.
Unless, of course, you live in some kind of reality-distortion field where you, your drinking buddies, Fox News and Jesus compromise "The American People" in it's entierety.
And the thing is, there are a lot of people living in that exact reality-distortion field. You can call repealing DADT whatever you want, but it's certainly not anti-democratic or fascistic. I guess I'm just amazed at Fox News' ability to call black white and turn up into down. They could run an unsourced story about gay Muslim Mexicans sneaking plutonium into the US in their jockstraps and many millions of people will believe it without question. Not only will they believe it, but it will become a GOP talking point, with Repub congressmen asking Obama why he isn't pulling out all the stops to prevent a gay Muslim Hiroshima in our fair land.
That kind of power is monumental. It's cosmic. It's the ability to say something patently stupid and false and then make it be true just by saying it.
This is the power of Gods, my friends. Evil, twisted Gods from deepest R'yleh.
posted by Avenger at 2:27 PM on December 19, 2010 [48 favorites]
I wonder how much the 58% of people who didn't vote were misinformed. Actually, I don't want to know.
posted by orme at 2:33 PM on December 19, 2010
posted by orme at 2:33 PM on December 19, 2010
This is incredible. The extent of misinformation is patently ridiculous. I recognise a particular obsession with 'freedom of speech' in the US, but surely the media have some sort of responsibility to ensure that that which they pass off as fact is not provably false?
posted by Dysk at 2:34 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Dysk at 2:34 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
It just goes to show that truthiness is far more powerful than actual facts, especially if you're a fox-watching republican.
When 7/8ths of the population is completely misinformed, and making decisions based upon complete bullshit fed to them as truth, and the regulators quite happily let lies get broadcast to millions as 'news';
Well, basically, you're screwed as a nation.
Remind me again how democracy is supposed to work when seven out of eight voters don't even understand the basic issues in the election?
Oh, your republic will carry on working just fine. The will of the people will be reflected in their choice of congressmen, or at least the most vocal part of the public will. That their choice will be based on propaganda, lies, truthiness and manipulation; that's a problem if you actually care what happens to the rest of the citizenry.
I'd offer y'all sanctuary in Europe, but between Berlusconi and the way the UK and French governments basically flat out lied over what they were going to do when in power, I'm not sure we're very far behind you.
posted by ArkhanJG at 2:44 PM on December 19, 2010 [3 favorites]
When 7/8ths of the population is completely misinformed, and making decisions based upon complete bullshit fed to them as truth, and the regulators quite happily let lies get broadcast to millions as 'news';
Well, basically, you're screwed as a nation.
Remind me again how democracy is supposed to work when seven out of eight voters don't even understand the basic issues in the election?
Oh, your republic will carry on working just fine. The will of the people will be reflected in their choice of congressmen, or at least the most vocal part of the public will. That their choice will be based on propaganda, lies, truthiness and manipulation; that's a problem if you actually care what happens to the rest of the citizenry.
I'd offer y'all sanctuary in Europe, but between Berlusconi and the way the UK and French governments basically flat out lied over what they were going to do when in power, I'm not sure we're very far behind you.
posted by ArkhanJG at 2:44 PM on December 19, 2010 [3 favorites]
Remind me again how democracy is supposed to work when seven out of eight voters don't even understand the basic issues in the election?
Ainformed uninformed population is key to a functional democracy corporate risk distributing service.
Anything else would be socialist!
posted by yeloson at 2:50 PM on December 19, 2010 [15 favorites]
A
Anything else would be socialist!
posted by yeloson at 2:50 PM on December 19, 2010 [15 favorites]
surely the media have some sort of responsibility to ensure that that which they pass off as fact is not provably false?
Here's a PDF link to the 2003 Florida Court of Appeal decision in WTVT-TV v. Akre, in which an investigative reporter (Jane Akre) was fired from the Tampa Fox station for refusing to falsify a news story involving the deleterious effects of a growth hormone made by Monsanto, after Monsanto wrote Roger Ailes (head of Fox News).
The court decided that the FCC's regulation against falsifying the news did not rise to the level of a "law, rule or regulation", and that therefore, the reporter was not covered under whistle-blower legislation.
So news media don't have a legal responsibility to tell the truth, or even half-truths. They can lie all they want. Of course, they aren't without some controls -- they do have a legal responsibility to create profit for shareholders.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 2:53 PM on December 19, 2010 [27 favorites]
Here's a PDF link to the 2003 Florida Court of Appeal decision in WTVT-TV v. Akre, in which an investigative reporter (Jane Akre) was fired from the Tampa Fox station for refusing to falsify a news story involving the deleterious effects of a growth hormone made by Monsanto, after Monsanto wrote Roger Ailes (head of Fox News).
The court decided that the FCC's regulation against falsifying the news did not rise to the level of a "law, rule or regulation", and that therefore, the reporter was not covered under whistle-blower legislation.
So news media don't have a legal responsibility to tell the truth, or even half-truths. They can lie all they want. Of course, they aren't without some controls -- they do have a legal responsibility to create profit for shareholders.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 2:53 PM on December 19, 2010 [27 favorites]
posters were wailing about "Congress running roughshod over the will of the people!" or similar thoughts.
That is part of The Plan. Sow mistrust in every institution, not just in parties or individuals. Depending on the story of the day, we see how the executive, the judicial and the legislative has "turned their backs on us" or are "legislating from the bench", etc.
The way they do this is by taking an incident that is nearly or actually an example of the thing they are talking about. Then they raise that to mythical proportions, slowly taking the actual example out and turning it into the institution. One activist judge turns into "these activist judges", whereby anything a judge does (that they don't like) is an example of The Judicial gone wrong.
After that, all they need to do is resurrect the theme, imply that it is happening, and the message is there. Without ever having to actually SAY anything.
One fun thing to do is compare their headlines of pool stories to headlines of other media sources. They are sometimes the exact opposite of what the story says.
The extent of misinformation is patently ridiculous. I recognise a particular obsession with 'freedom of speech' in the US, but surely the media have some sort of responsibility to ensure that that which they pass off as fact is not provably false?
They are taking advantage of the fact that with freedom comes responsibility. They are free to say what they wish, we have the responsibility to figure out whether we believe them. But humans are lazy, and when you combine a strong voice of authority with simple answers to complicated solutions and then constantly beat the drum, you get a good proportion of the public who trust you implicitly.
posted by gjc at 2:53 PM on December 19, 2010 [5 favorites]
That is part of The Plan. Sow mistrust in every institution, not just in parties or individuals. Depending on the story of the day, we see how the executive, the judicial and the legislative has "turned their backs on us" or are "legislating from the bench", etc.
The way they do this is by taking an incident that is nearly or actually an example of the thing they are talking about. Then they raise that to mythical proportions, slowly taking the actual example out and turning it into the institution. One activist judge turns into "these activist judges", whereby anything a judge does (that they don't like) is an example of The Judicial gone wrong.
After that, all they need to do is resurrect the theme, imply that it is happening, and the message is there. Without ever having to actually SAY anything.
One fun thing to do is compare their headlines of pool stories to headlines of other media sources. They are sometimes the exact opposite of what the story says.
The extent of misinformation is patently ridiculous. I recognise a particular obsession with 'freedom of speech' in the US, but surely the media have some sort of responsibility to ensure that that which they pass off as fact is not provably false?
They are taking advantage of the fact that with freedom comes responsibility. They are free to say what they wish, we have the responsibility to figure out whether we believe them. But humans are lazy, and when you combine a strong voice of authority with simple answers to complicated solutions and then constantly beat the drum, you get a good proportion of the public who trust you implicitly.
posted by gjc at 2:53 PM on December 19, 2010 [5 favorites]
but surely the media have some sort of responsibility to ensure that that which they pass off as fact is not provably false?
Well ... / me cringes slightly ... unfortunately, that's not how it works.
If it's not libelous, false trade advertising or something similarly damaging, you can say it. Which explains "alien invasion" tabloid headlines, for one thing.
Of course, broadcast media in the States licenses its portion of the spectrum from the government, which ostensibly upholds standards for media. But true accuracy is not a day-to-day concern (and really shouldn't be, because you don't want government deciding the "accuracy" of a news report. That way lies danger, too).
It sucks. But there will always be a market for crazy.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:55 PM on December 19, 2010
Well ... / me cringes slightly ... unfortunately, that's not how it works.
If it's not libelous, false trade advertising or something similarly damaging, you can say it. Which explains "alien invasion" tabloid headlines, for one thing.
Of course, broadcast media in the States licenses its portion of the spectrum from the government, which ostensibly upholds standards for media. But true accuracy is not a day-to-day concern (and really shouldn't be, because you don't want government deciding the "accuracy" of a news report. That way lies danger, too).
It sucks. But there will always be a market for crazy.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:55 PM on December 19, 2010
Sadly enough this doesn't surprise me. Nor does it move me to anger and furious frustration anymore. It just makes me very sad. Really fucking sad.
posted by Splunge at 2:57 PM on December 19, 2010
posted by Splunge at 2:57 PM on December 19, 2010
gjc: They are taking advantage of the fact that with freedom comes responsibility. They are free to say what they wish, we have the responsibility to figure out whether we believe them.
I was always under the impression that the phrase "with freedom comes responsibility" referred to the same agent or actor. After all, it's not "with freedom comes the responsibility of others". If you have a freedom, you have a responsibility in how you enact or use that freedom. That's what that statement is supposed to capture.
Cool Papa Bell, I wasn't necessarily speaking of a strictly legal responsibility...
posted by Dysk at 3:01 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
I was always under the impression that the phrase "with freedom comes responsibility" referred to the same agent or actor. After all, it's not "with freedom comes the responsibility of others". If you have a freedom, you have a responsibility in how you enact or use that freedom. That's what that statement is supposed to capture.
Cool Papa Bell, I wasn't necessarily speaking of a strictly legal responsibility...
posted by Dysk at 3:01 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Something like between 60 and 80% of the American people support allowing gays and lesbians to openly serve in the military. Reminds me of the boxing Movie from years back. Our Hero starts boxing in round one, and gets floored right way, in is corner before the next round, he looks at his trainer and says loudly, how can that fighter hit so hard, after you said don't worry, he is gay!
posted by tustinrick at 3:04 PM on December 19, 2010
posted by tustinrick at 3:04 PM on December 19, 2010
In other news, BBC Director General Mark Thompson says that the UK should have 'polemical channels.'
Fucking arsehole.
posted by Jakey at 3:05 PM on December 19, 2010 [3 favorites]
Fucking arsehole.
posted by Jakey at 3:05 PM on December 19, 2010 [3 favorites]
Aside from all the lies, here's a truth: we are losing the greatness that we once had, where the very tenets of our innovative Constitution are being used against us by powers that profit either way - that is, until the whole thing caves in, which by then will have powers-that-be safely ensconced within the security of whatever protections their ill-gotten gains permit them to purchase. Way out there, beyond the borders and nationalities that are used by Power to manipulate human beings, lies capital, on the wire, beyond any border. That's what this has always been about, and until we find a way to thwart that Power, history will repeat continue to repeat itself in the most horrific ways.
posted by Vibrissae at 3:07 PM on December 19, 2010 [18 favorites]
posted by Vibrissae at 3:07 PM on December 19, 2010 [18 favorites]
I was always under the impression that the phrase "with freedom comes responsibility" referred to the same agent or actor. After all, it's not "with freedom comes the responsibility of others". If you have a freedom, you have a responsibility in how you enact or use that freedom. That's what that statement is supposed to capture.
It means both.
posted by gjc at 3:15 PM on December 19, 2010
It means both.
posted by gjc at 3:15 PM on December 19, 2010
Angels and Minsters of Grace protect us from the maliciously misinformed, or at least hold off the inevitable until after I die.
posted by ob1quixote at 3:16 PM on December 19, 2010
posted by ob1quixote at 3:16 PM on December 19, 2010
voters were substantially misinformed
Lies & The Lying Liars, etc
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 3:19 PM on December 19, 2010
Lies & The Lying Liars, etc
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 3:19 PM on December 19, 2010
Couple this with the human tendency to cling even more fiercely to beliefs after finding out they are false and....
Well, we're pretty much fucked, aren't we?
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:24 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, we're pretty much fucked, aren't we?
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:24 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Meh. Everyone knows that voting is for socialists. It's the corporations that ensure our freedom!
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 3:44 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 3:44 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
It means both.
No, it doesn't.
They are free to say what they wish, we have the responsibility to figure out whether we believe them.
They aren't free to say what they wish, actually. There are laws against slander and libel, for example. What they are, however--ethically speaking, if not realistically--is responsible for their words.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:48 PM on December 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
No, it doesn't.
They are free to say what they wish, we have the responsibility to figure out whether we believe them.
They aren't free to say what they wish, actually. There are laws against slander and libel, for example. What they are, however--ethically speaking, if not realistically--is responsible for their words.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:48 PM on December 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yes, kill yourself now. The alternative involves implementing education reform and we can't have that.
posted by anigbrowl at 3:51 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by anigbrowl at 3:51 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
it's a helluva lot more efficient than the way they used to do it, riding your horse for days, tacking up handbills outside the saloons and churches, or passin' 'em out at the town pump.
Or like buying a bunch of newspapers?
Perhaps what jeanmari means is that most people don't have a browser that natively handles and displays the PDF mime type.
Most people hate clicking on linked PDFs even if they don't download, because Adobe Reader will freeze most peoples' browsers for a long while while it starts up and loads all its libraries.
That kind of power is monumental. It's cosmic. It's the ability to say something patently stupid and false and then make it be true just by saying it. This is the power of Gods, my friends. Evil, twisted Gods from deepest R'yleh.
Hey now don't drag Cthulhu into this, his brand of darkness is far worse than anything petty News Corp. could field. And anyway, his cult officially supported Ron Paul.
posted by JHarris at 4:00 PM on December 19, 2010
Or like buying a bunch of newspapers?
Perhaps what jeanmari means is that most people don't have a browser that natively handles and displays the PDF mime type.
Most people hate clicking on linked PDFs even if they don't download, because Adobe Reader will freeze most peoples' browsers for a long while while it starts up and loads all its libraries.
That kind of power is monumental. It's cosmic. It's the ability to say something patently stupid and false and then make it be true just by saying it. This is the power of Gods, my friends. Evil, twisted Gods from deepest R'yleh.
Hey now don't drag Cthulhu into this, his brand of darkness is far worse than anything petty News Corp. could field. And anyway, his cult officially supported Ron Paul.
posted by JHarris at 4:00 PM on December 19, 2010
I currently watch Fox News on a fairly regular basis by virtue of having to be somewhere where it's on all the time. Even though the exposure is relatively short, I often experience a level of cognitive dissonance which almost makes me immediately want to go bang my head against a wall to try to get all the crap I just heard out of it.
- most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points)
- the economy is getting worse (26 points)
- most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points)
- their own income taxes have gone up (14 points)
- the auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points)
- and that it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points)
I touch base with right-leaning talk radio from time to time just to stay informed on how the wingnuts are thinking. These points are pretty much canon among the hosts and the target audience members. I was almost dumbfounded recently to hear many callers complaining that Obama wanted to increase taxes on the middle class. These people had no idea how much their own gang was willing to stab them in the back, and had used them to get in a position to be able to do it. Groupthink is a powerful and scary thing.
posted by fuse theorem at 4:13 PM on December 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
- most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points)
- the economy is getting worse (26 points)
- most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points)
- their own income taxes have gone up (14 points)
- the auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points)
- and that it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points)
I touch base with right-leaning talk radio from time to time just to stay informed on how the wingnuts are thinking. These points are pretty much canon among the hosts and the target audience members. I was almost dumbfounded recently to hear many callers complaining that Obama wanted to increase taxes on the middle class. These people had no idea how much their own gang was willing to stab them in the back, and had used them to get in a position to be able to do it. Groupthink is a powerful and scary thing.
posted by fuse theorem at 4:13 PM on December 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
"there will always be a market for crazy" Per Cool Papa Bell. Yep. And whenever I see the talking heads on Fox I hear the (overquoted, but accurate) lines from Yeats. "The best lack all conviction, while the worst, Are full of passionate intensity."
posted by skepticbill at 4:32 PM on December 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by skepticbill at 4:32 PM on December 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
There's a lot of "the sky is falling" line of thought floating around this thread. No matter how bad things look, however, remember that it's a lot easier to determine if someone is lying to you these days.
posted by quillbreaker at 4:33 PM on December 19, 2010
posted by quillbreaker at 4:33 PM on December 19, 2010
The 3 Great Premises of Charles Pierce, from his excellent book Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free:
(1) Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings or otherwise moves units.
(2) Any thing can be true if someone says it loudly enough.
(3) Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it.
Truthiness wins. Beats the hell out having to think and learn a bunch of pesky facts.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 4:41 PM on December 19, 2010
(1) Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings or otherwise moves units.
(2) Any thing can be true if someone says it loudly enough.
(3) Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it.
Truthiness wins. Beats the hell out having to think and learn a bunch of pesky facts.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 4:41 PM on December 19, 2010
It means both.
No, it doesn't.
They are free to say what they wish, we have the responsibility to figure out whether we believe them.
They aren't free to say what they wish, actually. There are laws against slander and libel, for example. What they are, however--ethically speaking, if not realistically--is responsible for their words.
It really does mean both. That phrase has no subjects or objects, it can refer to anyone.
Since we are playing the pedantry game.
posted by gjc at 4:49 PM on December 19, 2010
No, it doesn't.
They are free to say what they wish, we have the responsibility to figure out whether we believe them.
They aren't free to say what they wish, actually. There are laws against slander and libel, for example. What they are, however--ethically speaking, if not realistically--is responsible for their words.
It really does mean both. That phrase has no subjects or objects, it can refer to anyone.
Since we are playing the pedantry game.
posted by gjc at 4:49 PM on December 19, 2010
gjc, you may be correct grammatically, but going by the spirit rather than the letter of the phrase...
posted by Dysk at 4:56 PM on December 19, 2010
posted by Dysk at 4:56 PM on December 19, 2010
In fact, the very reason 'they' are not technically free to say exactly what they wish is that with freedom comes responsibility...
posted by Dysk at 4:57 PM on December 19, 2010
posted by Dysk at 4:57 PM on December 19, 2010
re: auto bailouts
Seems that the talk-radio crowd really missed an opportunity with the whole auto industry thing. Auto jobs (were, at least) the textbook definition of "hard-working middle-class job" / American Dream / Heartland / etc. Hard to think of a better way to gin up some populism than by supporting auto workers.
posted by hamida2242 at 5:06 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Seems that the talk-radio crowd really missed an opportunity with the whole auto industry thing. Auto jobs (were, at least) the textbook definition of "hard-working middle-class job" / American Dream / Heartland / etc. Hard to think of a better way to gin up some populism than by supporting auto workers.
posted by hamida2242 at 5:06 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
The 3 Great Premises of Charles Pierce, from his excellent book Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free:
(1) Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings or otherwise moves units.
(2) Any thing can be true if someone says it loudly enough.
(3) Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it.
I dunno, man. How many copies did that book sell?
“A lie told often enough becomes the truth.” - Vladimir Lenin
posted by Sys Rq at 5:12 PM on December 19, 2010
(1) Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings or otherwise moves units.
(2) Any thing can be true if someone says it loudly enough.
(3) Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it.
I dunno, man. How many copies did that book sell?
“A lie told often enough becomes the truth.” - Vladimir Lenin
posted by Sys Rq at 5:12 PM on December 19, 2010
Hamida2242, there are two things to consider:
1) Auto jobs (were, at least) the textbook definition of "hard-working middle-class job" / American Dream / Heartland / etc.
I would be very surprised if that wasn't how it was framed during the previous administration.
2) never underestimate the degree to which unions are hated by big business (i.e. the advertisers who fund the radio shows), and likewise the degree to which the radio jockeys complain about them. Now, the way that all works is probably for a different thread, specifically how the "cost" figures are (mis-)represented and red herrings thrown in the mix about unrelated unions (almost invariably teacher unions- and almost invariably NOT police or prison guard unions); but there is a great dislike for unions. For example, it is much harder to sell "you are paid too little, and you have to few protections" than it is to sell "those other folks are paid too much, and they have too many protections." Other posters can probably articulate it better than this old uneducated ex-con, but driving public opinion and discourse against unions has been a cornerstone of both GOP and conservative philosophy for a long time.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 5:25 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
1) Auto jobs (were, at least) the textbook definition of "hard-working middle-class job" / American Dream / Heartland / etc.
I would be very surprised if that wasn't how it was framed during the previous administration.
2) never underestimate the degree to which unions are hated by big business (i.e. the advertisers who fund the radio shows), and likewise the degree to which the radio jockeys complain about them. Now, the way that all works is probably for a different thread, specifically how the "cost" figures are (mis-)represented and red herrings thrown in the mix about unrelated unions (almost invariably teacher unions- and almost invariably NOT police or prison guard unions); but there is a great dislike for unions. For example, it is much harder to sell "you are paid too little, and you have to few protections" than it is to sell "those other folks are paid too much, and they have too many protections." Other posters can probably articulate it better than this old uneducated ex-con, but driving public opinion and discourse against unions has been a cornerstone of both GOP and conservative philosophy for a long time.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 5:25 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is there any reason to think voters are more misinformed now than in previous elections? The linked paper certainly didn't make this claim. For all I know, the situation is improving.
posted by escabeche at 6:08 PM on December 19, 2010
posted by escabeche at 6:08 PM on December 19, 2010
Bah! We don't have propaganda in America! (Long but worth it.)
posted by Marla Singer at 6:10 PM on December 19, 2010
posted by Marla Singer at 6:10 PM on December 19, 2010
Politicians lie. Peasants vote for politicians who lie. Story at 11.
posted by ovvl at 6:18 PM on December 19, 2010
posted by ovvl at 6:18 PM on December 19, 2010
Hard to think of a better way to gin up some populism than by supporting auto workers.posted by hamida2242
Most of the 'auto workers' part have gone. Here is some 'gin' from one such place.
'One man was in court for illegal possession of a squirrel...
Next on the docket was the illegal possession of a duck...
Finally, the weirdest case of all: a loose calf.'
This highest murder rate is still being debated.
posted by clavdivs at 6:32 PM on December 19, 2010
Most of the 'auto workers' part have gone. Here is some 'gin' from one such place.
'One man was in court for illegal possession of a squirrel...
Next on the docket was the illegal possession of a duck...
Finally, the weirdest case of all: a loose calf.'
This highest murder rate is still being debated.
posted by clavdivs at 6:32 PM on December 19, 2010
This is quaint -- MeFi users quibbling over a horse 23 years after it has left the stable...
Get with it, peeps! When St. Reagan eliminated the Fairness Doctrine, (starting around 1985, btw) he created the conditions that have allowed Fox News and the 24/7 cable-opinion programmers to thrive.
The patron Saint of late 20th c. American politics sold your access to honestly fair and balanced reportage. You all have been on your own for an entire generation -- Roger Ailes has been selling you a shitload of partisan goods and has been allowed to call it "news". It has been within our power to call them on their bullshit by not tuning in; it's just that no one can be bothered.
posted by vhsiv at 7:59 PM on December 19, 2010
Get with it, peeps! When St. Reagan eliminated the Fairness Doctrine, (starting around 1985, btw) he created the conditions that have allowed Fox News and the 24/7 cable-opinion programmers to thrive.
The patron Saint of late 20th c. American politics sold your access to honestly fair and balanced reportage. You all have been on your own for an entire generation -- Roger Ailes has been selling you a shitload of partisan goods and has been allowed to call it "news". It has been within our power to call them on their bullshit by not tuning in; it's just that no one can be bothered.
posted by vhsiv at 7:59 PM on December 19, 2010
2) never underestimate the degree to which unions are hated by big business (i.e. the advertisers who fund the radio shows), and likewise the degree to which the radio jockeys complain about them. Now, the way that all works is probably for a different thread, specifically how the "cost" figures are (mis-)represented and red herrings thrown in the mix about unrelated unions (almost invariably teacher unions- and almost invariably NOT police or prison guard unions); but there is a great dislike for unions. For example, it is much harder to sell "you are paid too little, and you have to few protections" than it is to sell "those other folks are paid too much, and they have too many protections." Other posters can probably articulate it better than this old uneducated ex-con, but driving public opinion and discourse against unions has been a cornerstone of both GOP and conservative philosophy for a long time.
It always mystifies me how viciously the UAW gets treated by some people. To hear the GM fans tell it, they were singlehandedly responsible for bringing down the entire American auto industry - the strategy of marketing and selling nothing but luxury SUVs in an increasingly harsh recession would have worked, if not for those greedy unions.
posted by kafziel at 8:52 PM on December 19, 2010 [7 favorites]
It always mystifies me how viciously the UAW gets treated by some people. To hear the GM fans tell it, they were singlehandedly responsible for bringing down the entire American auto industry - the strategy of marketing and selling nothing but luxury SUVs in an increasingly harsh recession would have worked, if not for those greedy unions.
posted by kafziel at 8:52 PM on December 19, 2010 [7 favorites]
Fox News + Lazy Voters = People scraping by on 25k per year defending tax cuts for people making over 250k per year.
Not only is the Republican party shooting the middle class in the foot, they've figured out a way to get them to pay for the gun. Goebbels would turn green with envy!
The patron Saint of late 20th c. American politics sold your access to honestly fair and balanced reportage. You all have been on your own for an entire generation -- Roger Ailes has been selling you a shitload of partisan goods and has been allowed to call it "news". It has been within our power to call them on their bullshit by not tuning in; it's just that no one can be bothered.
People who want to be infotained respond best to a consistent talking points. Don't ask them to dig any deeper.
The left needs to work out their own core message and stick to it. The democratic party has forgotten about it's greatest asset, being the party of every day people. They've engaged the Republican talking points because they don't have a consistent message of their own. They had one and it worked -- "We represent the everyday working people of this county and the Republican's are the party of big business and the wealthy. That corporations don't care about the people of this country and neither to the Republicans."
Until they offer a message of substance and deliver on it. The gap they leave will be filled by the right wing propagandists.
posted by empty vessel at 10:28 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Not only is the Republican party shooting the middle class in the foot, they've figured out a way to get them to pay for the gun. Goebbels would turn green with envy!
The patron Saint of late 20th c. American politics sold your access to honestly fair and balanced reportage. You all have been on your own for an entire generation -- Roger Ailes has been selling you a shitload of partisan goods and has been allowed to call it "news". It has been within our power to call them on their bullshit by not tuning in; it's just that no one can be bothered.
People who want to be infotained respond best to a consistent talking points. Don't ask them to dig any deeper.
The left needs to work out their own core message and stick to it. The democratic party has forgotten about it's greatest asset, being the party of every day people. They've engaged the Republican talking points because they don't have a consistent message of their own. They had one and it worked -- "We represent the everyday working people of this county and the Republican's are the party of big business and the wealthy. That corporations don't care about the people of this country and neither to the Republicans."
Until they offer a message of substance and deliver on it. The gap they leave will be filled by the right wing propagandists.
posted by empty vessel at 10:28 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
There is little doubt in my mind that this misinformation AND disinformation is being spread deliberately in order to confuse the electorate, then offer them simplistic solutions that only solidify the hold that the rich and corporations have over the levers of power in America.
posted by novenator at 12:30 AM on December 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by novenator at 12:30 AM on December 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
The Democratic party is a trojan horse and the most brilliant move the ruling elite made. You worked hard to open the city gates to let that big Obama wooden horse in, and what came out of it?
Black Bush!
posted by CautionToTheWind at 4:58 AM on December 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Black Bush!
posted by CautionToTheWind at 4:58 AM on December 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
We represent the everyday working people of this county and the Republican's are the party of big business and the wealthy.
But without the bribes from big business and the wealthy, the Democrats can no longer get elected.
posted by Enron Hubbard at 5:54 AM on December 20, 2010
But without the bribes from big business and the wealthy, the Democrats can no longer get elected.
posted by Enron Hubbard at 5:54 AM on December 20, 2010
Black Bush would have certainly fought for some sort of compromise before extending the tax cuts, and would not have made them permanent either. Black Bush would have passed HCR. He would have pushed to end DADT.
posted by garlic at 6:10 AM on December 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by garlic at 6:10 AM on December 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Black Bush extended the tax cuts for the richest americans. At a time of crisis. After a vast wealth transfer to the wealthy that was the bailouts. The only compromise was by the american public, who managed to get unthinkably fucked twice rather than once.
HCR? A tame version that will keep moderates quiet for a few more decades and still allows the health insurance companies to collect rent on human misery. I guess i meant fucked three times.
DADT? Yielding to unimaginable pressure from public, military and science is hardly “Pushing“. Remember that the whole anti-gay thing is not about money so they never cared about it. It was always a smoke screen, to get you people busy and distracted with a certainly very legitimate cause, but that only made to be a cause at all to distract you from robbery and power abuse that you can't even imagine. Hell, half of the gay bashers turned out to be gay!
posted by CautionToTheWind at 3:13 AM on December 22, 2010
HCR? A tame version that will keep moderates quiet for a few more decades and still allows the health insurance companies to collect rent on human misery. I guess i meant fucked three times.
DADT? Yielding to unimaginable pressure from public, military and science is hardly “Pushing“. Remember that the whole anti-gay thing is not about money so they never cared about it. It was always a smoke screen, to get you people busy and distracted with a certainly very legitimate cause, but that only made to be a cause at all to distract you from robbery and power abuse that you can't even imagine. Hell, half of the gay bashers turned out to be gay!
posted by CautionToTheWind at 3:13 AM on December 22, 2010
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posted by Slarty Bartfast at 1:59 PM on December 19, 2010 [20 favorites]