All this talk of US retaliation is stirring even more waters
September 27, 2001 2:46 AM Subscribe
All this talk of US retaliation is stirring even more waters in Pakistan's religious instutions: "Now listen, American, and listen well," says Hussain Zaeef, 21. He reads from Page 12 of the manual: " 'Bomb their embassies and vital economic centers.' That's what I will do to you and your country. I will get your children. I will get their playgrounds. I will get their schools, too. I will get all of you."
That's some religion you got there Hussain! How's that "Islam is peace" thing working out for ya?
posted by revbrian at 3:28 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by revbrian at 3:28 AM on September 27, 2001
hrm. I clicked the link, but I didn't see that quote or anything like it on the page.
posted by delmoi at 4:32 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by delmoi at 4:32 AM on September 27, 2001
<first_post>I found nothing of the sort on the page either. USA Today seems to change that page up quite a bit however, I noted after a brief investigation with Google.
It makes it hard to cite news stories when the news sources don't offer us permanent links. Maybe that's the point. In any case, I don't know what sort of accessible archive the major news sites maintain. I imagine that there ain't much.
I'm a bit more worried about the difference between this:
MSNBC article, about how cameras were ordered out of the House Judiciary Committee meeting when Civil Liberties proponents were about to testify.
and this:
The same page now, which hasn't suffered another change in the past couple days.</first_post>
Sorry about the faux HTML tags. I won't do it again. I swear.
posted by rocketpup at 5:18 AM on September 27, 2001
It makes it hard to cite news stories when the news sources don't offer us permanent links. Maybe that's the point. In any case, I don't know what sort of accessible archive the major news sites maintain. I imagine that there ain't much.
I'm a bit more worried about the difference between this:
MSNBC article, about how cameras were ordered out of the House Judiciary Committee meeting when Civil Liberties proponents were about to testify.
and this:
The same page now, which hasn't suffered another change in the past couple days.</first_post>
Sorry about the faux HTML tags. I won't do it again. I swear.
posted by rocketpup at 5:18 AM on September 27, 2001
Sad. Why do people in my generation act so stupidly? It's an endless circle. They attack us, and we are going to respond. Then they threaten to attack again. Whatsup with that? What did we do to provoke such hatred? If Afaganistan wants to join the world, why not ask for help? The US and other countries would be more than willing to help out. As long as it's people seem to be treated fairly, which does not seem to be the case now.
Its sad to think of the "modern" push for education and tolerance, and then to have someone throw it all out the window.
Hello middle east. We, the US, don't WANT to take you over. What is the point of that? We don't want to crush your religion. We just want to have everyone treated fairly and live in peace.
I'm totally sick of these middle east idiots threatening people. The US is more Islamic than these "Islamic" religious nuts.....
I'm going to go throw up now. These kind of comments make me sick......
posted by ericdano at 5:53 AM on September 27, 2001
Its sad to think of the "modern" push for education and tolerance, and then to have someone throw it all out the window.
Hello middle east. We, the US, don't WANT to take you over. What is the point of that? We don't want to crush your religion. We just want to have everyone treated fairly and live in peace.
I'm totally sick of these middle east idiots threatening people. The US is more Islamic than these "Islamic" religious nuts.....
I'm going to go throw up now. These kind of comments make me sick......
posted by ericdano at 5:53 AM on September 27, 2001
It's really quite bizarre. I've never encountered an individual who would try to do everything in his power to make me hate his religion.
*sigh* I guess it's time to get my Zoloft prescription refilled.
posted by tpoh.org at 6:12 AM on September 27, 2001
*sigh* I guess it's time to get my Zoloft prescription refilled.
posted by tpoh.org at 6:12 AM on September 27, 2001
I'm totally sick of these middle east idiots threatening people.
I'm sure you meant fundamentalist idiots, right? Let's be sure to differentiate between the Middle East and fundamentalists.
posted by jennak at 6:50 AM on September 27, 2001
I'm sure you meant fundamentalist idiots, right? Let's be sure to differentiate between the Middle East and fundamentalists.
posted by jennak at 6:50 AM on September 27, 2001
I hope the reporter's next question was: "Can I get your address? Some folks from Delta Force would like to interview you."
posted by mikewas at 6:59 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by mikewas at 6:59 AM on September 27, 2001
"Already, more than 2,000 students, some carrying the Koran, Islam's holy book, and AK-47 assault rifles, have crossed into Afghanistan within the last week, Pakistani officials say"
First, please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a rule that you're not supposed to touch the Koran without washing your hands first? Random question I know. I digress (this is a long one kids...)
Fundamentlism, in any form, is the problem. Ignorance a close second. We're just as guilty as they are, but we have the power to expand our world view through technology that many people in other parts of the world do not.
I was in Tunisia in 1994, which is by far the most "westernized" Arab state. Very Liberal. And there wasn't a hatred or distaste for Americans - at least that we sensed openly. But sterotypes pervaded everything:
1. All americans are filthy rich.
You tell them you're an American in the souk or the medina? Price doubles. No question. Tell them you're Irish? the look let down
2. There is (was) a civil war going on in Texas.
The whole David Koresh standoff was still in the news, and to many people there, a religious group fighting the government was considered a civil war.
3. American tourists were generally rude and disrespectful of the culture and religion
While it is quite a liberal state, especially in the capital, women wearing revealing clothing was frowned upon. And revealing in the sense of shorts and a tanktop. Most of us wore khakis and button down shirts the whole time we were there (Summer on the tip of the sahara is NOT fun in long pants).
Media perpetuates these attitudes, so educate yourself (most mefi readers do this already) and act to create change in the way people look at other cultures.
Now I gots to run down to the corner store and gets me some beer! yeee ehaaw!
posted by eljuanbobo at 7:09 AM on September 27, 2001
First, please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a rule that you're not supposed to touch the Koran without washing your hands first? Random question I know. I digress (this is a long one kids...)
Fundamentlism, in any form, is the problem. Ignorance a close second. We're just as guilty as they are, but we have the power to expand our world view through technology that many people in other parts of the world do not.
I was in Tunisia in 1994, which is by far the most "westernized" Arab state. Very Liberal. And there wasn't a hatred or distaste for Americans - at least that we sensed openly. But sterotypes pervaded everything:
1. All americans are filthy rich.
You tell them you're an American in the souk or the medina? Price doubles. No question. Tell them you're Irish? the look let down
2. There is (was) a civil war going on in Texas.
The whole David Koresh standoff was still in the news, and to many people there, a religious group fighting the government was considered a civil war.
3. American tourists were generally rude and disrespectful of the culture and religion
While it is quite a liberal state, especially in the capital, women wearing revealing clothing was frowned upon. And revealing in the sense of shorts and a tanktop. Most of us wore khakis and button down shirts the whole time we were there (Summer on the tip of the sahara is NOT fun in long pants).
Media perpetuates these attitudes, so educate yourself (most mefi readers do this already) and act to create change in the way people look at other cultures.
posted by eljuanbobo at 7:09 AM on September 27, 2001
There is (was) a civil war going on in Texas.
Might be because we have that seperation-of-church-and-state thing. If you don't, then it could look like one religious group against the ruling other.
I hate to say it, but I do think the Bush election fiasco, especially considering his attitudes on foreign policy at the time, only exacerbated these issues. Now after all of his frontier justice talk, they're stuck because big strikes aren't the answer. Politics needs to become an issue of leadership again, and not just pandering to the popular view. Bush is in that position to start the trend, I pray he has the humility to do so.
Oh yeah, and less gossip/more world reports in the news media would help, too.
posted by teradome at 8:48 AM on September 27, 2001
Might be because we have that seperation-of-church-and-state thing. If you don't, then it could look like one religious group against the ruling other.
I hate to say it, but I do think the Bush election fiasco, especially considering his attitudes on foreign policy at the time, only exacerbated these issues. Now after all of his frontier justice talk, they're stuck because big strikes aren't the answer. Politics needs to become an issue of leadership again, and not just pandering to the popular view. Bush is in that position to start the trend, I pray he has the humility to do so.
Oh yeah, and less gossip/more world reports in the news media would help, too.
posted by teradome at 8:48 AM on September 27, 2001
One yells out the name of Mohammed Atta, an alleged bin Laden associate believed to have hijacked one of the two jets that crashed into the World Trade Center. Another says he will "kill more than Atta."
A third student then unfolds a picture of the Sears Tower in Chicago. "This one is mine," he says.
I've never heard anyone sound so bloodthirsty in all my life. So much anger because we only give them 50 million worth of aid a year instead of 200 million.
/me unfolds a picture of bin laden, all his followers and everyone else who has ever committed an act of murder in the name of God, "These ones are mine".
posted by dcgartn at 8:54 AM on September 27, 2001
A third student then unfolds a picture of the Sears Tower in Chicago. "This one is mine," he says.
I've never heard anyone sound so bloodthirsty in all my life. So much anger because we only give them 50 million worth of aid a year instead of 200 million.
/me unfolds a picture of bin laden, all his followers and everyone else who has ever committed an act of murder in the name of God, "These ones are mine".
posted by dcgartn at 8:54 AM on September 27, 2001
Hello middle east. We, the US, don't WANT to take you over. What is the point of that? We don't want to crush your religion. We just want to have everyone treated fairly and live in peace.
when has any of this ever been a priority?
without wanting to sound too negative, this kind of naive clap-trap is just as unhelpful as 'i will get their playgrounds'.
why not read up on the subject, and i don't mean your favourite collumnist in a mainstream newspaper.
here are a few examples of funding state terrorism, which would probably be 'justified' under the banner of 'anti-communist' action.
as eljuanbobo says:
'Media perpetuates these attitudes, so educate yourself (most mefi readers do this already) and act to create change in the way people look at other cultures'
posted by asok at 9:36 AM on September 27, 2001
when has any of this ever been a priority?
without wanting to sound too negative, this kind of naive clap-trap is just as unhelpful as 'i will get their playgrounds'.
why not read up on the subject, and i don't mean your favourite collumnist in a mainstream newspaper.
here are a few examples of funding state terrorism, which would probably be 'justified' under the banner of 'anti-communist' action.
as eljuanbobo says:
'Media perpetuates these attitudes, so educate yourself (most mefi readers do this already) and act to create change in the way people look at other cultures'
posted by asok at 9:36 AM on September 27, 2001
More foreign policy articles... Good stuff. I'd post it as a front page link, but there's already way too much WTC stuff on there.
posted by elvissinatra at 10:20 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by elvissinatra at 10:20 AM on September 27, 2001
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posted by incubus at 3:23 AM on September 27, 2001