Hey Hey Ho Ho This Library Can't Go
March 2, 2003 11:26 AM Subscribe
Put Your "arms around the Gray Building" to save the Florida State Library. Jeb Bush has a "poorly conceived plan" to move the library's circulating collection to Nova Southeastern University. So, if you're tired of protesting against his brother, and you're in Florida, come on over, about 10 a.m., on Tuesday. Send an email to SaveFLStateLib@bellsouth.net with "Save the Florida State Library" in the subject line.
"Bring signs, pins, stickers, whatever you have to show your displeasure, but please no profanity."
More info Here on the closing. Meanwhile, Washington is trying hard to be The First state without a state library.
MeFi is not a recruiting board for your protests. STOP.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:47 AM on March 2, 2003
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:47 AM on March 2, 2003
What's the big deal, except that some people will get fired?
It's not like the residents of Tallahassee are going to lose their only good library -- the FSU libraries have a collection that utterly dwarfs the Florida State Library.
It's not like legislators are suddenly going be library-less -- the FSU libraries (which are government-depository libraries anyway) aren't going anywhere, and the legislature maintains it own library for its specialized needs.
If there's going to be a Florida State Library that's acting as an uber-public library, why not have it where the people are instead of way the hell off in Tallahassee?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:07 PM on March 2, 2003
It's not like the residents of Tallahassee are going to lose their only good library -- the FSU libraries have a collection that utterly dwarfs the Florida State Library.
It's not like legislators are suddenly going be library-less -- the FSU libraries (which are government-depository libraries anyway) aren't going anywhere, and the legislature maintains it own library for its specialized needs.
If there's going to be a Florida State Library that's acting as an uber-public library, why not have it where the people are instead of way the hell off in Tallahassee?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:07 PM on March 2, 2003
While I agree that this could have been a better FPP without the obvious bias, can we retire the sarcastic post police? How about just saying [Not appropriate for FPP] or else adding something to improve the thread?
And, here is the big deal: The state library isn't the library for legislators. This isn't a bunch of dusty books that can be shipped anywhere. We're not talking about college libraries bragging about the size of their, uh, collections.
This is what Florida will lose by closing the state library.
I could go on, but won't. If anyone really wants to learn about this subject try the petitioners or the Florida American Library Association. Or call Jeb Bush (850-488-2272) and ask him.
posted by ?! at 3:03 PM on March 2, 2003
And, here is the big deal: The state library isn't the library for legislators. This isn't a bunch of dusty books that can be shipped anywhere. We're not talking about college libraries bragging about the size of their, uh, collections.
This is what Florida will lose by closing the state library.
I could go on, but won't. If anyone really wants to learn about this subject try the petitioners or the Florida American Library Association. Or call Jeb Bush (850-488-2272) and ask him.
posted by ?! at 3:03 PM on March 2, 2003
And, here is the big deal: The state library isn't the library for legislators. This isn't a bunch of dusty books that can be shipped anywhere.
Isn't a library by definition a collection of books that can be shipped anywhere, along with a set of electronic resources that could likewise be transferred anywhere, and the people who work there, who will be largely fired?
It's a library, in a town with gigantic university libraries and what seems to be a well-developed set of county libraries. If it closes, people in Tallahassee can just use the other libraries.
This is what Florida will lose by closing the state library.
Wow! The association of librarians is opposed to some of its members being fired? Say it ain't so!
What I can gather from that is that some people are going to be fired, books will be moved around, and some coordinating activities will need to be relocated.
So?
People who aren't in easy distance of Tallahassee, which is to say everyone that's not in Tallahassee or Pensacola, basically can't use the library anyway. If it closes, people who drive to TAllahassee to use it can go to the FSU library. Presumably the coordinating functions it performs don't rely on geomancy or the mystical powers of the words STATE LIBRARY and so could be shifted somewhere else.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:34 PM on March 2, 2003
Isn't a library by definition a collection of books that can be shipped anywhere, along with a set of electronic resources that could likewise be transferred anywhere, and the people who work there, who will be largely fired?
It's a library, in a town with gigantic university libraries and what seems to be a well-developed set of county libraries. If it closes, people in Tallahassee can just use the other libraries.
This is what Florida will lose by closing the state library.
Wow! The association of librarians is opposed to some of its members being fired? Say it ain't so!
What I can gather from that is that some people are going to be fired, books will be moved around, and some coordinating activities will need to be relocated.
So?
People who aren't in easy distance of Tallahassee, which is to say everyone that's not in Tallahassee or Pensacola, basically can't use the library anyway. If it closes, people who drive to TAllahassee to use it can go to the FSU library. Presumably the coordinating functions it performs don't rely on geomancy or the mystical powers of the words STATE LIBRARY and so could be shifted somewhere else.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:34 PM on March 2, 2003
Isn't a library by definition a collection of books that can be shipped anywhere, along with a set of electronic resources that could likewise be transferred anywhere, and the people who work there, who will be largely fired?
no, a library by definition is not those things. Also, the big difference between a State Library and a library with similar material at FSU is a couple things:
1. funding structure and service mandate. what's to keep FSU keeping the collection as it is, and available to all Florida residents and researchers? State libraries exist at some level because their services are thought to be important and necessary at a state level and shouldn't be subject to the whims of individual institutions' funding crises and student-centered activities.
2. staffing. the present staff has decades of experience with weird and arcane collections. firing them results in loss of access points to collections that may seem trivial but really isn't. they not only provide access to this information, they catalog and organize it using diferent criteria than anything FSU likely has. government documents use different classification systems, state librarians know those, their expertise may not be easily replaceable.
While Florida, like Washington state, is not actually closing their library, the de facto closing is much more harmful since it puts the message out there that the library is just a collection of books and databases, which is not the case.
posted by jessamyn at 6:48 PM on March 2, 2003
no, a library by definition is not those things. Also, the big difference between a State Library and a library with similar material at FSU is a couple things:
1. funding structure and service mandate. what's to keep FSU keeping the collection as it is, and available to all Florida residents and researchers? State libraries exist at some level because their services are thought to be important and necessary at a state level and shouldn't be subject to the whims of individual institutions' funding crises and student-centered activities.
2. staffing. the present staff has decades of experience with weird and arcane collections. firing them results in loss of access points to collections that may seem trivial but really isn't. they not only provide access to this information, they catalog and organize it using diferent criteria than anything FSU likely has. government documents use different classification systems, state librarians know those, their expertise may not be easily replaceable.
While Florida, like Washington state, is not actually closing their library, the de facto closing is much more harmful since it puts the message out there that the library is just a collection of books and databases, which is not the case.
posted by jessamyn at 6:48 PM on March 2, 2003
ROU: I can see you didn't read through the links. (A small example, the collection isn't going to FSU, but to Nova Southeastern University, Inc.)
You don't seem to have an understanding of Florida libraries or of the inner-working of libraries in general. You have the simplistic mindset that its no big deal when people lose their jobs -- especially when its politically motivated . In short, thanks for your input, but I'm not feeding trolls tonight.
on preview: Thanks jessamyn. I guess you have a stronger belief that some people will listen.
posted by ?! at 7:17 PM on March 2, 2003
You don't seem to have an understanding of Florida libraries or of the inner-working of libraries in general. You have the simplistic mindset that its no big deal when people lose their jobs -- especially when its politically motivated . In short, thanks for your input, but I'm not feeding trolls tonight.
on preview: Thanks jessamyn. I guess you have a stronger belief that some people will listen.
posted by ?! at 7:17 PM on March 2, 2003
Isn't a library by definition a collection of books that can be shipped anywhere, along with a set of electronic resources that could likewise be transferred anywhere, and the people who work there, who will be largely fired?
No. The Lib-Sci 101 definition is "a collection of information organized for use," or some variant thereof. A state library, however, will contain a high percentage of unique materials which are not kept elsewhere (at last, not anywhere else publicly accessible) at all, as well as unique collections of which individual items might be available elsewhere but which, as a coherent organized collection on a certain topic or individual or institution, are singular.
I had the opportunity to do some research at the New York State Library this winter. The material I found (mostly original pamphlet material from the 19th century--if I'd had more time I could have gotten into the manuscript material) is certainly not available elsewhere in one place, and maybe not at all.
And if you say "they should just scan it all so geography won't matter," well, I'll be waiting for the check.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 8:03 PM on March 2, 2003
No. The Lib-Sci 101 definition is "a collection of information organized for use," or some variant thereof. A state library, however, will contain a high percentage of unique materials which are not kept elsewhere (at last, not anywhere else publicly accessible) at all, as well as unique collections of which individual items might be available elsewhere but which, as a coherent organized collection on a certain topic or individual or institution, are singular.
I had the opportunity to do some research at the New York State Library this winter. The material I found (mostly original pamphlet material from the 19th century--if I'd had more time I could have gotten into the manuscript material) is certainly not available elsewhere in one place, and maybe not at all.
And if you say "they should just scan it all so geography won't matter," well, I'll be waiting for the check.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 8:03 PM on March 2, 2003
no, a library by definition is not those things. Also, the big difference between a State Library and a library with similar material at FSU is a couple things:
1. funding structure and service mandate. what's to keep FSU keeping the collection as it is, and available to all Florida residents and researchers?
If I thought there was any chance that FSU would close its doors to non-(students and faculty), I'd take that seriously, but the probability that a large, flagship state university would do that (and thereby probably risk any ALA accreditation they might need) is, well, something very very small indeed.
I'd had the impression from its own webspace, though, that the FSL was basically a normal library and document-depository with a couple of special collections. If it isn't, they should minimally make sure that the nonduplicated stuff and its associated people stay together.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:55 PM on March 2, 2003
1. funding structure and service mandate. what's to keep FSU keeping the collection as it is, and available to all Florida residents and researchers?
If I thought there was any chance that FSU would close its doors to non-(students and faculty), I'd take that seriously, but the probability that a large, flagship state university would do that (and thereby probably risk any ALA accreditation they might need) is, well, something very very small indeed.
I'd had the impression from its own webspace, though, that the FSL was basically a normal library and document-depository with a couple of special collections. If it isn't, they should minimally make sure that the nonduplicated stuff and its associated people stay together.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:55 PM on March 2, 2003
ROU: I can see you didn't read through the links. (A small example, the collection isn't going to FSU, but to Nova Southeastern University, Inc.)
I read the links. I knew that it wasn't going to FSU, because FSU didn't want to spend money to take care of it.
I kept bringing up FSU out of an apparent misunderstanding of what the library was doing. From looking at their own page and browsing in their catalog, it looked like they were basically a small university library, or a large county library, with a reasonable document depository tacked on and a couple of special collections. Or, if you will, it looked like it was basically an extra county library in Leon County, and Leon County is already well-served. I'm happy to be wrong, and wish them as best as they can get in the current fiscal world.
You don't seem to have an understanding of Florida libraries or of the inner-working of libraries in general.
Wouldn't claim to. Just a user, and mostly only of jstor.
You have the simplistic mindset that its no big deal when people lose their jobs -- especially when its politically motivated .
I'm sure it's a big deal to the people being fired and anyone who knows and cares about them. I'm also pretty sure that the state of Florida is going to be firing a lot of people over the next few months. If they're going to be firing people, I'd rather they fire people whose efforts largely duplicate others. If I was wrong about that, though, then I'm wrong about the whole schmeer, aren't I?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:01 PM on March 2, 2003
I read the links. I knew that it wasn't going to FSU, because FSU didn't want to spend money to take care of it.
I kept bringing up FSU out of an apparent misunderstanding of what the library was doing. From looking at their own page and browsing in their catalog, it looked like they were basically a small university library, or a large county library, with a reasonable document depository tacked on and a couple of special collections. Or, if you will, it looked like it was basically an extra county library in Leon County, and Leon County is already well-served. I'm happy to be wrong, and wish them as best as they can get in the current fiscal world.
You don't seem to have an understanding of Florida libraries or of the inner-working of libraries in general.
Wouldn't claim to. Just a user, and mostly only of jstor.
You have the simplistic mindset that its no big deal when people lose their jobs -- especially when its politically motivated .
I'm sure it's a big deal to the people being fired and anyone who knows and cares about them. I'm also pretty sure that the state of Florida is going to be firing a lot of people over the next few months. If they're going to be firing people, I'd rather they fire people whose efforts largely duplicate others. If I was wrong about that, though, then I'm wrong about the whole schmeer, aren't I?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:01 PM on March 2, 2003
What's the big deal, except that some people will get fired?
Number one reason Jeb! wants to close the state library: a certain historical set of ballots are stored there and will be destroyed due to this propitious budget cut. Any guesses why that would be a "good thing" for Jeb! ?
The cover up continues.
posted by nofundy at 5:59 AM on March 3, 2003
Number one reason Jeb! wants to close the state library: a certain historical set of ballots are stored there and will be destroyed due to this propitious budget cut. Any guesses why that would be a "good thing" for Jeb! ?
The cover up continues.
posted by nofundy at 5:59 AM on March 3, 2003
Politicians hate libraries because the less people think, the more likely it is that those politicians will remain in office.
posted by LeLiLo at 8:06 AM on March 3, 2003
posted by LeLiLo at 8:06 AM on March 3, 2003
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On Tuesday, at 10:30, Bush will be presenting his
State of the State address at the Capitol and then
the Legislative Session begins. At about 1:00 PM,
we will go to the R. A. Gray Building and surround
it with our arms and hands linked. Anybody want to
give a blessing.
SCHEDULE
9:00-10:00 AM Meet on the steps of the Old Capitol
Building - Flyers and pins will be handed out. About
10 am, start walking into the Capitol Building and
make sure your signs are visible.
12:00 PM - Lunch on your own
1:00 PM - "Arms around the Gray Building" We will
surround the R.A. Gray building with as many people
as we can. I get goose bumps just thinking about it.
Do not block people from going in and out.
Theme Song: Blame it on the Bossa Nova (Blame it on Jeb Bush and Nova)
posted by Blake at 11:34 AM on March 2, 2003