Priceless quotes
December 7, 2000 10:38 PM Subscribe
Priceless quotes from web design clients. "I think this should always be spinning." "I don't think people will be able to focus on the words..." "Make it spin DAMMIT!!" Some of these are downright hilarious.
>I think some are great examples of web designers being
>inflexible, unrealistic bastards
Hear, hear. Educating clients about design and the realities of the medium is all part of the job. The adversarial attitude many industry "professionals" have with their clients is absurd and ultimately self-defeating.
posted by jkottke at 11:39 PM on December 7, 2000
>inflexible, unrealistic bastards
Hear, hear. Educating clients about design and the realities of the medium is all part of the job. The adversarial attitude many industry "professionals" have with their clients is absurd and ultimately self-defeating.
posted by jkottke at 11:39 PM on December 7, 2000
True, you need to flex. After all, you're the one being paid. It's the client's site, you need to come to a clear understanding with each other in order to work together effectively. But I can still feel my heart sink when someone insists on putting in those cool bright yellow 3d stars, the ones that spin and glow. On top of neon green.But that discussion still has to be one of the funniest things I've read in a while.
posted by tomorama at 12:42 AM on December 8, 2000
posted by tomorama at 12:42 AM on December 8, 2000
I guess it's all a matter of people dropping their "I'm the designer damnit. I know everything and you are illiterate." attitude.
posted by tomorama at 12:44 AM on December 8, 2000
posted by tomorama at 12:44 AM on December 8, 2000
Makes me wonder if that hifalutin' attitude is endemic to the job. (By "the job" I mean not just web designers, but pretty much any gig that has a technical nature and involves interaction with less knowledgeable clients). I work in tech support, and I often find a tone of superiority and/or condescension creeping into my voice, almost despite myself.
I think those of us who have these positions should make a concerted effort not to be snide when dealing with the less knowledgeable. We all started somewhere.
posted by Optamystic at 12:59 AM on December 8, 2000
I think those of us who have these positions should make a concerted effort not to be snide when dealing with the less knowledgeable. We all started somewhere.
posted by Optamystic at 12:59 AM on December 8, 2000
My experience in the web/multimedia world makes me want to empathize with everyone: graphos, customers, techos...even sales! (but not accounts).
It's a stinking sweatshop industry.
graphos - overworked, creative, naive, prima donnas
techos - overworked, smart, grumpy, narrow, elitist trolls
sales - overworked, naive, stressed, flighty bullshit artists
customers - overcharged, ignorant, unreasonable victims
...
accounts - totally useless blood sucking parasites
;-j
posted by lagado at 2:56 AM on December 8, 2000
It's a stinking sweatshop industry.
graphos - overworked, creative, naive, prima donnas
techos - overworked, smart, grumpy, narrow, elitist trolls
sales - overworked, naive, stressed, flighty bullshit artists
customers - overcharged, ignorant, unreasonable victims
...
accounts - totally useless blood sucking parasites
;-j
posted by lagado at 2:56 AM on December 8, 2000
My experience of working with a particularly narky bunch of developers (outsourced; I'm their client) leads me to believe that, often, the only way I can get anything done is to confess complete and total ignorance, and ritually humiliate myself by begging them to help me. I have done this time and time again. I have sent off countless e-mails pleading with them to keep me informed of progress, and to let me know if something cannot be done and why it cannot be done, so that I can try and come up with a reasonable alternative. I never hear anything from them, and they will not return my phone calls.
I am just trying to do a job, but the more obstructive they are the more difficult the situation gets for both parties. If they kept me informed, I wouldn't have to bombard them with the e-mails. They must loathe me. But it could be so much easier if their attitude was a little less confrontational...
fair enough, sack 'em and get some that can communicate with you.
posted by lagado at 4:03 AM on December 8, 2000
posted by lagado at 4:03 AM on December 8, 2000
I wish I could, but the big cheese says no...
Let's all direct anger at big bosses instead.
posted by Caffa at 5:16 AM on December 8, 2000
This one's funny:
"our web site doesn't load if I turn javascript off ... please fix this"
*sigh*
Seems like a valid complaint to me, I'm beginning to think webdesigners, not the clients are responsible for the enormous amount of crappy flash-websites out there...
posted by fvw at 6:48 AM on December 8, 2000
"our web site doesn't load if I turn javascript off ... please fix this"
*sigh*
Seems like a valid complaint to me, I'm beginning to think webdesigners, not the clients are responsible for the enormous amount of crappy flash-websites out there...
posted by fvw at 6:48 AM on December 8, 2000
It's a professional services industry, kids. If the clients knew how to get this work done on their own, they wouldn't be coming to us. And having worked both on internal corporate web teams, and in an agency, I can say without hesitation that the former is a nightmare.
But since they are coming to us (the agency) - they need to sit back and allow us to do our work, as professionals, and apply our knowledge and experience.
Instead, designers/developers are often forced by the clueless (on both the client and agency side) to cave into demands and specs that produce crappy work - to which that thread on Dreamless testifies so accurately.
posted by gsh at 9:14 AM on December 8, 2000
But since they are coming to us (the agency) - they need to sit back and allow us to do our work, as professionals, and apply our knowledge and experience.
Instead, designers/developers are often forced by the clueless (on both the client and agency side) to cave into demands and specs that produce crappy work - to which that thread on Dreamless testifies so accurately.
posted by gsh at 9:14 AM on December 8, 2000
Amen Gabby. It's similar to what I get -- people come to me for legal advice, then tell me that my counsel is wrong based on what they saw on Court TV or (worse) Law & Order last night. Yes, the web design client should, of course, have the final word on what information is there and on the general context in which it is presented, but there are instances where deferring to the judgment and experience of the trained professionals you've hired is crucial. I don't understand the mindset of people who are paying someone (or multiple someones) for their expertise, then discount it when it conflicts with their untested, neophyte ideas.
posted by Dreama at 11:12 AM on December 8, 2000
posted by Dreama at 11:12 AM on December 8, 2000
I'm beginning to think webdesigners, not the clients are responsible for the enormous amount of crappy flash-websites out there...
No reason to trash a whole profession now, is there?
posted by leo at 11:13 AM on December 8, 2000
No reason to trash a whole profession now, is there?
posted by leo at 11:13 AM on December 8, 2000
I read that dreamless.org thread a few weeks ago (took me the greater part of a day -- procrastination) and I know what you're saying about flexibility. I think you have to take that thread with a grain of salt. People are just venting over there.
And as for the guy up above who can't get them to call you back -- that's ridiculous. On the other hand, make sure you're not micromanaging. The clients that needed to speak with me everyday on the phone drove me absolutely batshit.
The gem in that thread for me was something along the lines of: "I asked a friend and they said that there *is* a rainbow filter in Photoshop -- why did you say there wasn't one?"
Classic.
posted by amanda at 12:05 PM on December 8, 2000
And as for the guy up above who can't get them to call you back -- that's ridiculous. On the other hand, make sure you're not micromanaging. The clients that needed to speak with me everyday on the phone drove me absolutely batshit.
The gem in that thread for me was something along the lines of: "I asked a friend and they said that there *is* a rainbow filter in Photoshop -- why did you say there wasn't one?"
Classic.
posted by amanda at 12:05 PM on December 8, 2000
I wouldn't imagine a client coming into a design office and requesting flash just because they've heard the buzzwords. Most likely designers want to floor the client with little work necessary instead of educating the client about what's involved with design on the Web.
posted by thirdball at 12:18 PM on December 8, 2000
posted by thirdball at 12:18 PM on December 8, 2000
Amanda: I would have found that funnier if the same damn thing hadn't happened to me.
posted by tj at 12:21 PM on December 8, 2000
posted by tj at 12:21 PM on December 8, 2000
Thirdball: I wouldn't imagine a client coming into a design office and requesting flash just because they've heard the buzzwords.
You're kidding right? Tongue in cheek? Pullin' my leg? Alright you kidder, you, that's pretty funny.
Tj: Yes. Me, too.
posted by amanda at 1:45 PM on December 8, 2000
You're kidding right? Tongue in cheek? Pullin' my leg? Alright you kidder, you, that's pretty funny.
Tj: Yes. Me, too.
posted by amanda at 1:45 PM on December 8, 2000
You know why web developers and designers act and vent this way? I've asked several clients how often they surf the web... "uhh.. i check my email all the time". You've just admitted your opinion on web design is moot cuz you dont surf.
I've designed dozens of sites in my years as a developer.. and all the crappy ones came from clients who just didnt get it.. All they know about the web is their friggin email and buzzwords like 'portal' and 'ebusiness' Do these people tell surgeons how to operate on them???
Dont even talk to me until you've read:
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9706b.html
Jakob Neilsons top ten web management mistakes... you've broken em all.
posted by u_quality at 4:09 PM on December 8, 2000
I've designed dozens of sites in my years as a developer.. and all the crappy ones came from clients who just didnt get it.. All they know about the web is their friggin email and buzzwords like 'portal' and 'ebusiness' Do these people tell surgeons how to operate on them???
Dont even talk to me until you've read:
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9706b.html
Jakob Neilsons top ten web management mistakes... you've broken em all.
posted by u_quality at 4:09 PM on December 8, 2000
here is my fav:
Us: So what words come to mind when you think about how your logo should look.
Client: Well it should be 'fast' and 'very friendly' ...oh, and maybe look like an octapus with tentacles stretching out'
ok, that is just plain stupidity.
posted by will at 7:06 PM on December 8, 2000
Us: So what words come to mind when you think about how your logo should look.
Client: Well it should be 'fast' and 'very friendly' ...oh, and maybe look like an octapus with tentacles stretching out'
ok, that is just plain stupidity.
posted by will at 7:06 PM on December 8, 2000
Client: "We want a website that can play DVD quality video, but we don't want to use streaming video and the load time must be zero."
Designer: "That's impossible. Everything has a load time. DVD quality runs about 100 megs a minute."
Client: "We'll take our business elsewhere..."
posted by grank at 9:40 PM on December 8, 2000
u_quality: "I've designed dozens of sites in my years as a developer.. and all the crappy ones came from clients who just didnt get it.."
i'm with you here. if i look back at the sites i've designed, the ones i'm most happy with are ones where the client knew what the internet is about, and had a vision for what they wanted the site to achieve.
the crap ones, the ones i make sure aren't associated with me, are all for people who just 'wanted a website'. people who decide they need to be in on this internet thing, but don't use it themselves. the ones you have to struggle through a meeting with, where you're carrying the whole thing, because they're still figuring out how to attach something to their damn email.
posted by titboy at 12:47 AM on December 11, 2000
i'm with you here. if i look back at the sites i've designed, the ones i'm most happy with are ones where the client knew what the internet is about, and had a vision for what they wanted the site to achieve.
the crap ones, the ones i make sure aren't associated with me, are all for people who just 'wanted a website'. people who decide they need to be in on this internet thing, but don't use it themselves. the ones you have to struggle through a meeting with, where you're carrying the whole thing, because they're still figuring out how to attach something to their damn email.
posted by titboy at 12:47 AM on December 11, 2000
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Things like making the site load faster, changing design elements should be a part of the deal. Some designers need to get off of their high horse...
posted by owillis at 11:18 PM on December 7, 2000