Cheney Hospitalized.
March 5, 2001 1:03 PM Subscribe
Cheney Hospitalized. Heart attack #2? Good grief - VP heart attacks, huge blizzard in the east, a school shooting.....NEXT?
Order of succession: Speaker of the House, President pro tempore, Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury and Attorney General.
posted by allaboutgeorge at 1:11 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by allaboutgeorge at 1:11 PM on March 5, 2001
The Speaker of the House is Denny Hastert (R-IL). In fact, Hastert is probably Vice President while Cheney is in the hospital, although I'm not sure that the 25th amendment actually deals with that.
posted by snarkout at 1:12 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by snarkout at 1:12 PM on March 5, 2001
Who's in line for VP should DC bite the D?
More importantly, who's going to run the country while GWB plays video golf all day?!?!?
posted by darren at 1:14 PM on March 5, 2001
More importantly, who's going to run the country while GWB plays video golf all day?!?!?
posted by darren at 1:14 PM on March 5, 2001
The Speaker of the House is Denny Hastert (R-IL). In fact, Hastert is probably Vice President while Cheney is in the hospital, although I'm not sure that the 25th amendment actually deals with that.
It doesn't. No one steps up to take the VP's place. The amendment only deals with replacing the President. Should he become incapacitated (could we make the case for that already?) then Hastert, et all, would step in -- in order
posted by darren at 1:16 PM on March 5, 2001
It doesn't. No one steps up to take the VP's place. The amendment only deals with replacing the President. Should he become incapacitated (could we make the case for that already?) then Hastert, et all, would step in -- in order
posted by darren at 1:16 PM on March 5, 2001
Wouldn't that be heart attack #5? He's already had 4...
posted by smackfu at 1:17 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by smackfu at 1:17 PM on March 5, 2001
Don't to worry, President Bush has rushed to a White House podium to state "I'm in charge, here!" Constitutional scholars are closely examining his claim.
snarkout, there's still a loophole permitting a vacancy in the Vice Presidency; note that the President has to nominate and gain Congressional approval for a replacement.
posted by dhartung at 2:05 PM on March 5, 2001
snarkout, there's still a loophole permitting a vacancy in the Vice Presidency; note that the President has to nominate and gain Congressional approval for a replacement.
posted by dhartung at 2:05 PM on March 5, 2001
If the office of VP becomes vacant, the President nominates a new one, which must be approved by a simple majority in both houses of Congress.
This procedure was added to the Constitution in the 1967 (second section of the 25th Amendment), and was used to place Gerald Ford (then House Minority Leader) into the VP slot by Richard Nixon after the resignation of Spiro Agnew. Later, when Nixon himself resigned, Ford became the only unelected President in the history of the US.
posted by Steven Den Beste at 2:07 PM on March 5, 2001
This procedure was added to the Constitution in the 1967 (second section of the 25th Amendment), and was used to place Gerald Ford (then House Minority Leader) into the VP slot by Richard Nixon after the resignation of Spiro Agnew. Later, when Nixon himself resigned, Ford became the only unelected President in the history of the US.
posted by Steven Den Beste at 2:07 PM on March 5, 2001
Later, when Nixon himself resigned, Ford became the only unelected President in the history of the US
I could make a snarky comment, but I'll save it for someone else.
posted by smeat at 2:28 PM on March 5, 2001
I could make a snarky comment, but I'll save it for someone else.
posted by smeat at 2:28 PM on March 5, 2001
What about BUSH!!!!!11 HAhAHahHAHAHAH!!
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:29 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:29 PM on March 5, 2001
Fair enough -- teach me to post a link to the 25th Amendment without actually reading it.
Should Cheney die, who's the best-guess appointee to the role of Vice President? Obviously Powell would be a popular choice, but I'm not sure he'd be willing to give up his role as Secretary of State.
Isn't this how Jack Ryan became President?
posted by snarkout at 2:49 PM on March 5, 2001
Should Cheney die, who's the best-guess appointee to the role of Vice President? Obviously Powell would be a popular choice, but I'm not sure he'd be willing to give up his role as Secretary of State.
Isn't this how Jack Ryan became President?
posted by snarkout at 2:49 PM on March 5, 2001
If Cheney were to die, wouldn't Bush be next in line? ;-)
posted by muppetboy at 2:51 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by muppetboy at 2:51 PM on March 5, 2001
Funny you should mention Ryan, I was just about to ask whether Darayei's hand could be detected in all these travails...
posted by baylink at 3:24 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by baylink at 3:24 PM on March 5, 2001
Isn't it about time Dr****, Aa*** or Capt. S**** showed up to chastise us for our callousness? "The man could be dying!" Another example of left-wing hate speech aimed at the pubs.
...or am I just trolling?
posted by jpoulos at 3:33 PM on March 5, 2001
...or am I just trolling?
posted by jpoulos at 3:33 PM on March 5, 2001
You are just trolling.
posted by sonofsamiam at 3:40 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by sonofsamiam at 3:40 PM on March 5, 2001
But aren't we all just trolls under that great big bridge called life?
(Woooooo! 3 posts in this thread too! I'm rockin' the proverbial casbah!)
posted by sonofsamiam at 3:54 PM on March 5, 2001
(Woooooo! 3 posts in this thread too! I'm rockin' the proverbial casbah!)
posted by sonofsamiam at 3:54 PM on March 5, 2001
There are totally unsubstantiated rumors from anonymous sources on indymedia.org (unreliable itself) that Cheney is dead.
posted by muppetboy at 4:09 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by muppetboy at 4:09 PM on March 5, 2001
Yeah, I wondered if I should feel bad about not feeling bad for Cheney. I don't guess I really want him dead, but I sure wouldn't mind if he surrendered public office. Although maybe then he would be able to control his little toy President without even the scant oversight he suffers under now.
posted by donkeymon at 4:10 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by donkeymon at 4:10 PM on March 5, 2001
http://www.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=26561
heh. it appears someone has already shown the article is wrong. so much for indymedia...
posted by muppetboy at 4:15 PM on March 5, 2001
heh. it appears someone has already shown the article is wrong. so much for indymedia...
posted by muppetboy at 4:15 PM on March 5, 2001
Now, now, jpoulos, lumping aaron and Dreama in with Stuby does them a disservice.
posted by darukaru at 4:19 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by darukaru at 4:19 PM on March 5, 2001
If Cheney had to step down (and I doubt he would unless absolutely incapacitated), Bush would be in a sticky wicket. He can't grab someone from the Senate or the House due to the narrow margins. He's already attracted to his administration several fellow governors. Powell, of course, didn't want the job (for whatever reason), and isn't trusted by conservatives farther than they can throw him (heck, the guy thinks affirmative action is A-OK), so would never be permitted into that position. The only other cabinet job with the stature, typically, for this level of job would be Attorney General -- and we all know how well that would go over with Democrats. O'Neill at Treasury is a cipher politically; Rumsfeld perhaps, but he's not close to Bush. Well, actually, he was close to Cheney, one reason he was picked -- so he might be Dick's favorite to replace him.
The real problem (and Allan Lichtman was just saying this same thing on MSNBC) is that Cheney is the most active VP in history. The VP has few Constitutional duties other than those Senate tie-breakers and session opening, but recent Presidents, influenced by the succession crisis of Nixon-Ford, have given their Veeps an active role in policy and often designate them as proxies in critical commissions and thereby vet them as someone ready to step into gear at a moment's notice. Bush and Gore were both loyal right-hand-men for their Presidents; Cheney is much more than that, closer in role perhaps to a COO, taking on many duties that would normally be handled in the Chief of Staff's office. Someone with as many fingers in the pie as he will be hard to replace.
Personally, I hope that they're doing some succession planning in this White House. Well, Republicans certainly better hope so.
posted by dhartung at 4:48 PM on March 5, 2001
The real problem (and Allan Lichtman was just saying this same thing on MSNBC) is that Cheney is the most active VP in history. The VP has few Constitutional duties other than those Senate tie-breakers and session opening, but recent Presidents, influenced by the succession crisis of Nixon-Ford, have given their Veeps an active role in policy and often designate them as proxies in critical commissions and thereby vet them as someone ready to step into gear at a moment's notice. Bush and Gore were both loyal right-hand-men for their Presidents; Cheney is much more than that, closer in role perhaps to a COO, taking on many duties that would normally be handled in the Chief of Staff's office. Someone with as many fingers in the pie as he will be hard to replace.
Personally, I hope that they're doing some succession planning in this White House. Well, Republicans certainly better hope so.
posted by dhartung at 4:48 PM on March 5, 2001
You're absolutely right, darukaru. Besides, my comment was unnecessary to begin with. My apologies to all.
Question (a legitimate one): if Cheney should die, is Bush helped by the sympathy factor, or is this administration seen as even more of a fiasco?
posted by jpoulos at 4:57 PM on March 5, 2001
Question (a legitimate one): if Cheney should die, is Bush helped by the sympathy factor, or is this administration seen as even more of a fiasco?
posted by jpoulos at 4:57 PM on March 5, 2001
Well, I'd suggest former House Budget Committee chair (and Republican presidential candidate) John Kasich; he was my first choice for the top spot, and I'd hoped he would be Bush's VP in the first place. He'd be nearly as good as Cheney in the insider/point man on the Hill/policy wonk-ish role. And as he's younger than Bush, a center-right mainline Republican, and from Ohio, he'd be a nice guy to have as the presumed front-runner for the presidential nomination in 2008.
posted by drothgery at 5:55 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by drothgery at 5:55 PM on March 5, 2001
I vote fiasco, but that would be because I'm a part of the vast left-wing conspiracy.
Even so, I've really got to imagine that if we end up having to come up with a new veep so soon after expending so much energy figuring out who the current one would be, a lot of people, regardless of political leanings, will be inclined to throw up their hands and go, "This again? You've got to be kidding me!"
Now, if Cheney were to die because he was hit by a runaway bus, there'd be sympathy factor left and right. Sudden, tragic, and completely unforeseen would be the way to go (pun not really intended but it works). But if Cheney dies, this month or three years into his vice-presidency, it's not like anyone will be surprised, exactly, and not a few will no doubt crow "See? I told you so!"
posted by Sapphireblue at 5:58 PM on March 5, 2001
Even so, I've really got to imagine that if we end up having to come up with a new veep so soon after expending so much energy figuring out who the current one would be, a lot of people, regardless of political leanings, will be inclined to throw up their hands and go, "This again? You've got to be kidding me!"
Now, if Cheney were to die because he was hit by a runaway bus, there'd be sympathy factor left and right. Sudden, tragic, and completely unforeseen would be the way to go (pun not really intended but it works). But if Cheney dies, this month or three years into his vice-presidency, it's not like anyone will be surprised, exactly, and not a few will no doubt crow "See? I told you so!"
posted by Sapphireblue at 5:58 PM on March 5, 2001
Does anybody else think that Dick Cheney is really Simon Bar Sinister?!!! hehe >:]
posted by blackholebrain at 9:17 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by blackholebrain at 9:17 PM on March 5, 2001
Isn't it about time Dr****, Aa*** or Capt. S**** showed up to chastise us for our callousness? "The man could be dying!"
I'm not upset by any of this. Cheney's heart condition is a running joke. If he really were seriously ill and/or dead, then I'd have to make you feel bad about it.
but I sure wouldn't mind if he surrendered public office.
Why? There's zero chance he'd get replaced by a Democrat. And he really is one of the most qualified people in the country to hold that position; any replacement would probably be a lesser one. Unless, of course, that's your whole nefarious plan, to put someone bad in that'll mess the Administration up! ;)
if Cheney should die, is Bush helped by the sympathy factor, or is this administration seen as even more of a fiasco?
Sympathy. Cheney has always been very highly respected in Washington, and there's been little doubt that he's been kicking ass as VP thus far, so in death, everyone would be falling all over themselves trying to be the first ones to praise him in the press. The media would make him into a demigod; maybe not a Diana-level one, but probably at least Dale Earnhardt-level.
I'd like to see Kasich, too, as a contingency veep. But here's a nightmare scenario for you: Cheney dies. Bush nominates Hastert to be veep. Before Hastert is confirmed, some horrible sequence of events leads to Bush and Hastert dying simultaneously. Then guess who'd be shufflin' on in to the Oval Office?
posted by aaron at 11:12 PM on March 5, 2001
And Simon Bar Sinister doesn't look like Cheney. He looks like the bastard child of Richard Nixon and Charles Nelson Reilly when he was on Lidsville.
posted by aaron at 11:18 PM on March 5, 2001
posted by aaron at 11:18 PM on March 5, 2001
I find it curious that people find a MORON acceptable for the chief leader of the USA.
I'm quite speechless..I saw Matalin accusing Dems of being "partisan" when the issue of W's dyslexia was brought up...what gives?
Is the nature of partisan rhetoric so stilted that mentally deficient gents are preferable to men who fu** outside of marriage?
Somehow, in a weird twist of fate called LOGIC, I prefer f**ckers over mentally deficient morons. Like our latest queen.
And our sickly prime minister.
The next four years will be a great rollercoater of hate...hang on kids...
posted by red cell at 12:18 AM on March 6, 2001
I'm quite speechless..I saw Matalin accusing Dems of being "partisan" when the issue of W's dyslexia was brought up...what gives?
Is the nature of partisan rhetoric so stilted that mentally deficient gents are preferable to men who fu** outside of marriage?
Somehow, in a weird twist of fate called LOGIC, I prefer f**ckers over mentally deficient morons. Like our latest queen.
And our sickly prime minister.
The next four years will be a great rollercoater of hate...hang on kids...
posted by red cell at 12:18 AM on March 6, 2001
I'd rather GWBush had a heart attack so Cheney could step in. At least he isn't as closely affiliated with the Ralph Reed and co.
posted by Loudmax at 1:37 AM on March 6, 2001
posted by Loudmax at 1:37 AM on March 6, 2001
> I prefer f**ckers over mentally deficient morons.
That's fuckers. And, yes, give me fuckers over morons any day. If anyone wants to argue about morality, consider this: what could be less moral than entrusting the US and all that it contains to an imbecile?
posted by pracowity at 1:49 AM on March 6, 2001
That's fuckers. And, yes, give me fuckers over morons any day. If anyone wants to argue about morality, consider this: what could be less moral than entrusting the US and all that it contains to an imbecile?
posted by pracowity at 1:49 AM on March 6, 2001
I'm sorry, who's this imbecile you refer too? The one who has two degrees from ivy-league schools (remember the person he ran against failed out of law school twice)?
I really am sick of people thinking he's deficient mentally. If you disagree with his policies, then say so. For the love of Pete, offer something constructive instead of whining all the time.
posted by Mick at 5:33 AM on March 6, 2001
I really am sick of people thinking he's deficient mentally. If you disagree with his policies, then say so. For the love of Pete, offer something constructive instead of whining all the time.
posted by Mick at 5:33 AM on March 6, 2001
Maybe somebody noted this before, but he didn't have a heart attack. He had a little unstable angina over a couple of days, they took him to the cath lab, and they opened him up at the point of restenosis. Restenosis occurs in about 20% of stent patients; he caught an unlucky roll of the dice. If he has more problems, they may consider brachytherapy or atherectomy during his next procedure.
They'll probably pump him full of IIb/IIIa antagonists and let him go home this morning (which is pretty standard practice) on aspirin and plavix.
posted by Alwin at 5:56 AM on March 6, 2001
They'll probably pump him full of IIb/IIIa antagonists and let him go home this morning (which is pretty standard practice) on aspirin and plavix.
posted by Alwin at 5:56 AM on March 6, 2001
but that would be because I'm a part of the vast left-wing conspiracy.
Can I join, too? Can I?
posted by baylink at 8:27 AM on March 6, 2001
Can I join, too? Can I?
posted by baylink at 8:27 AM on March 6, 2001
> For the love of Pete,
Mind your language.
> offer something constructive instead of whining
> all the time.
Well, Mr. Constructive, you contributed two comments to this thread. In one, you whined that this thread was making you sick; in the other, you whined that the noting of Bush's dumbness makes you sick. Maybe you should go lie down.
But about Bush's dumbness:
My dictionary says a moron is "a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment."
You imply that it would be impossible for such a person to pick up a couple of college degrees. As anyone who has ever been to college knows, every college has a few dimwits wandering about. They get there on suspect scholarships, on the strength of good records from easy high schools, because their parents are big contributors, and so on. And they get by. If they have money, they can get extra tutoring, buy grades, pay other kids to take exams for them, do whatever they have to do to get a diploma and still be dopey.
Despite all of his advantages, Bush managed to squeeze out just a C average as a history major. His formal education stopped there; when he applied to the University of Texas law school, they rejected him.
posted by pracowity at 12:04 AM on March 7, 2001
Mind your language.
> offer something constructive instead of whining
> all the time.
Well, Mr. Constructive, you contributed two comments to this thread. In one, you whined that this thread was making you sick; in the other, you whined that the noting of Bush's dumbness makes you sick. Maybe you should go lie down.
But about Bush's dumbness:
My dictionary says a moron is "a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment."
You imply that it would be impossible for such a person to pick up a couple of college degrees. As anyone who has ever been to college knows, every college has a few dimwits wandering about. They get there on suspect scholarships, on the strength of good records from easy high schools, because their parents are big contributors, and so on. And they get by. If they have money, they can get extra tutoring, buy grades, pay other kids to take exams for them, do whatever they have to do to get a diploma and still be dopey.
Despite all of his advantages, Bush managed to squeeze out just a C average as a history major. His formal education stopped there; when he applied to the University of Texas law school, they rejected him.
posted by pracowity at 12:04 AM on March 7, 2001
Arguing that Junior is not one of the dimmer bulbs we've had as "President" is like arguing that Clinton isn't a womanizer. Through all the BS of the last 8 years, no one was arguing that Clinton was a good husband--just that it didn't matter when it came to running the country. That's a tougher argument to make in Dubya's case.
posted by jpoulos at 7:58 AM on March 7, 2001
posted by jpoulos at 7:58 AM on March 7, 2001
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posted by sonofsamiam at 1:04 PM on March 5, 2001