BBC to repeat 'racist' remarks.
March 11, 2001 7:10 AM Subscribe
posted by quarsan at 8:04 AM on March 11, 2001
posted by muppetboy at 8:09 AM on March 11, 2001
quarsan: you're right about Lynham and the French, unfortunately. But how many French people watch Room 101? Or know who Lynham is?
posted by ceiriog at 8:46 AM on March 11, 2001
Ooh! I can't wait. Judging by this Private Eye article, this show could be an unending source of unintentional humor.
posted by MrBaliHai at 8:56 AM on March 11, 2001
As a result of that lawsuit, which generated more national publicity about Wales and the Welsh than anyone could remember, the media generally ignoring matters Welsh, settlements were reached in which the Los Angeles Times, Times-Mirror Company, National Broadcasting Company (NBC), KNBC, Universal Press Syndicate, and other defendants, agreed to change their "style books" to treat "to welsh" and "welsher" equally with comparable slurs; that is, to cease using them. NBC broadcast an apology on 300 stations across the nation to "Americans of Welsh descent and the people of Wales." That, indeed, was unprecedented.
Guess which US network has the rights to The Weakest Link?
MrBaliHai: you are my new hero.
posted by ceiriog at 9:21 AM on March 11, 2001
This is far more disgusting and terrifying than anything she could possibly have said. Thought Cops!
posted by aaron at 11:09 AM on March 11, 2001
There's a close correspondence here to stereotypes about drunken Irish-Americans. Turning St. Patrick's Day into an alcoholic Mardi Gras for everyone is OK; calling a police van a "paddy wagon" is not. Timing and tone are important.
m.polo, for a list of the phrases she used, look around the middle of the very first article linked. Frankly, I found her attitude much closer to that Deliverance rural/urban divide than anything else, but then I have a perspective from half a world away. Would someone get the same flak for referring similarly to Cornwall or the Midlands?
posted by dhartung at 11:22 AM on March 11, 2001
For what it's worth, I agree with you. I don't think she should be prosecuted, and I doubt very much that she will be.
dhartung: Would someone get the same flak for referring similarly to Cornwall or the Midlands?
Probably not (the Cornish language and national identity was killed a couple of centuries ago), but the real comparison, as you say, is with Ireland and the Irish. Wales is not a region of England, it's a nation within the UK - for the moment.
To play devil's advocate for a minute, imagine a Chinese TV personality making these remarks about Tibet, or an American making them about the Hopi people.
Britain is a Welsh word; Wales is a German one. It's a long story.
posted by ceiriog at 11:43 AM on March 11, 2001
Keep in mind that in the US, anyone can sue anybody for any reason, and the plaintiff does not have to pay everyone's court costs if they lose. As a result, the American legal system is used as a convenient tool by all sorts of money-hungry individuals and special-interest groups for utterly meritless reasons. And it works. Even if the lawsuit is completely baseless, many companies will settle and pay off the extortionists because fighting on principle could take years and cost much much more than any settlement. And this lawsuit was indeed baseless. Nobody in America has a right to tell somebody else they can't use certain words. The lawsuit was claiming that "welsher" and "to welsh" are "fighting words," and the Supreme Court has said that it's unconstitutional to try to ban fighting words.
But all these companies settled just to get the damn thing over with ... and because there's nothing worse you can accuse someone of in America than racism. Murderer, rapist, child molester? Those are compliments compared to "racist." Even better, those accused of racism are usually treated by society as guilty until proven innocent, if they ever can be proven innocent; after all, if an organization dedicated to And I'm not sure how much else in this PR puff piece is real, since the little bit you quoted is quite off-base: ...which generated more national publicity about Wales and the Welsh than anyone could remember, the media generally ignoring matters WelshTwo times zero is still zero. This has never gotten a notable level attention in the past, and it didn't in this case either. settlements were reached in which the Los Angeles Times, Times-Mirror Company, National Broadcasting Company (NBC), KNBC, Universal Press Syndicate, and other defendants, agreed to change their "style books" to treat "to welsh" and "welsher" equally with comparable slurs... There is no proof that the etymology of the verb "to welsh" has anything to do with Welsh people. The only people that "know" it's a slur are those with a vested political and/or monetary interest in making the claim. And the average American doesn't have any idea that the verb could even possibly be linked to a certain nationality. "The Welsh? Who are they?" This isn't a word like "redneck" or "nigger;" anyone who uses those terms knows exactly what they refer to and how disparaging they are. But "welsh" is nothing to them but a word, and not one that's even used very often; in this country the term is a bit archaic. Ditto on "paddy wagon." I'd guess 95 out of 100 Americans you asked about that term wouldn't make the connection between "paddy" and the Irish in a million years. It's just a word to them, and calling a police van a "paddy wagon" would carry no more negative connotation than calling that thing under your fingers a "keyboard." NBC broadcast an apology on 300 stations across the nation to "Americans of Welsh descent and the people of Wales." Bullshit. NBC only has ~220 affiliates in the first place. And only 13 of those are actually owned by NBC and thus have to do what it says. Where was this "apology" broadcast? In a 5-second ad at 2 am Saturday morning?
posted by aaron at 12:26 PM on March 11, 2001
aaron, take a deep breath. Calm, calm, calm.
I have personal experience of how little the average American knows about Wales. So what?
My point was that NBC might have reason to put pressure on Robinson to retract her statements. To apologise for offending people. She would be free to refuse to bow to such thought control, of course. It would be interesting to see if her devotion to her persona as the 'rudest woman on television' is stronger than her greed.
That may be against everything you believe in. Sorry. The last time I spent a week in England I was called 'Taff', 'boyo' and 'sheepshagger'. When I told a taxi driver where I'd travelled from he asked me where my wellies were. In a bar, someone asked me had I 'heard of MTV'.
The Welsh are all, by nature,Wilder than the beasts of the field.Chrétian de Troyes - 1181
See that date? We've put up with this shit for long enough.
Sorry to be all righteous and indignant, again, but I've just heard that there's a suspected case of foot and mouth within 30 miles of here, so I've got better things to do than tiptoe round your particular version of compassionate conservatism.
posted by ceiriog at 1:48 PM on March 11, 2001
posted by Postroad at 2:39 PM on March 11, 2001
Robinson was asked by Paul Merton whether her remarks were actually fuelled by envy, to which she said 'yes'.
There's been a remarkable week-long hoo-haa over this in the UK, providing great publicity for Ms. Robinson - and not so great publicity for the Welsh... as we come off as a nation of over-sensitive whingers, instead of the stoic warrior-poet-sages we know we are ;-)
posted by blackbeltjones at 12:02 AM on March 12, 2001
Good for you. Where were you watching it?
I watched it in Llangrannog, Ceredigion. Our local (Welsh medium) nursery school doesn't have a single child from a Welsh speaking household. About half of the houses in the village are empty during the winter.
I'll try harder to see the funny side.
posted by ceiriog at 12:57 AM on March 12, 2001
It's all cheap publicity at the expense of the Welsh, unfortunately due to the (understandable) reaction to her remarks, she got exactly what she wanted and probably more. That's all there is to her, image and publicity. nothing more, there is no character or personality there, As a consequence she has to try harder on the self-publicity side.
The sooner she's off the BBC the better, I only feel sorry for the US, our gain is your loss.
posted by Markb at 3:50 AM on March 12, 2001
Twm Siôn Cati are on the case.
posted by ceiriog at 4:10 AM on March 12, 2001
Seeing the words 'Welsh', 'flooding' and 'Liverpool' in the same sentence reminds of another reason why a Liverpudlian should be a little bit more sensitive.
posted by ceiriog at 4:16 AM on March 12, 2001
My understanding is that "Welsh" was originally an Anglo-Saxon word meaning "foreigner", i.e. not of English descent. The Welsh call themselves Cymry and their country Cymru but this word Welsh was applied them even though they had inhabited Britain long before the English even got there (from Germany).
So, it seems that the word was never a very friendly one. Perhaps the word "welsher" is just an extension of that xenophobia?
I also understand that the Walloons of Belgium and the Wallachs of Rumania got their names much the same way.
posted by lagado at 5:31 AM on March 12, 2001
I've been writing about etymology for years. There's rarely proof of a word's origins -- people don't normally document the first time they used pejorative slang. The books I have here indicate that the concept of welshing on a bet became popular in England around the same time as anti-Welsh nursery rhymes like this:
Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a thief,
Taffy came to my house and stole a piece of beef;
I went to Taffy's house, Taffy wasn't in,
I jumped upon his Sunday hat, and poked it with a pin.
Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a sham,
Taffy came to my house and stole a leg of lamb;
I went to Taffy's house, Taffy was away,
I stuffed his socks with sawdust and filled his shoes with clay.
Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a cheat,
Taffy came to my house and stole a piece of meat;
I went to Taffy's house, Taffy was not there,
I hung his coat and trousers to roast before a fire.
Sounds to me like the British were more than capable of associating the Welsh with walking out on an obligation.
posted by rcade at 8:52 AM on March 12, 2001
Yes, except 'British' and 'English' are not synonyms. It's fairly important in this context. :)
'English' and 'Welsh' are both sub-sets of 'British'. I mentioned before that 'Britain' is a Celtic word (modern Welsh Prydain), and Brythonic (the 'language of the Britons') is now known, by English speakers, as Welsh (the 'language of the foreigners')
The Welsh word for 'irony' is 'eironi'. These things never happened until the English turned up, so we stole their word for it.
posted by ceiriog at 9:41 AM on March 12, 2001
posted by rcade at 10:12 AM on March 12, 2001
Admittedly, her remarks were not as bad as the PR machine made out (just the usual racism lite which certain middle class people seem to have a knack for) but it is symptomatic of the steady drip drip affect which paints a picture of my home as unimportant both culturally and economically. They were mostly ignorant (it's true one of her complaints was that we speak Welsh) which is the most suprising thing, considering this is the year 2001
We are a small nation bordered by a large and powerful neighbour so our national psyche is one that leans towards insecure, which may have explained the somewhat over the top reaction.
I think Simon hoggart's "you can't be racist about the Welsh" comments are more damaging and more offensive myself.
posted by fullerine at 11:32 AM on March 12, 2001
Once the ad money rolls in from "The Weakest Link", NBC won't worry. Now, if she'd said the same of the Irish, there's a demographic that can really affect US revenues.
posted by holgate at 5:55 AM on March 13, 2001
I don't see any Americans celebrating St. George's Day though ;-)
posted by wackybrit at 4:02 PM on March 13, 2001
posted by sonofsamiam at 4:05 PM on March 13, 2001
It was a bit nasty of me to compare St. George's Day to St. Patrick's Day anyway. Even the English don't celebrate St. George's Day.. y'know part of being unpatriotic English folk and all that.
posted by wackybrit at 4:33 PM on March 13, 2001
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posted by m.polo at 7:28 AM on March 11, 2001