September 19, 2001
1:22 PM Subscribe
Operation Infinite Justice? I am already close to ill in the midst of the "Current Situation" -- I don't think I can stomach months or years of daily nightmarish updates of "Operation Infinite Justice." It seems that this beat out "Operation Noble Eagle." Does the military employ advertising and PR firms or do America's hired killers come up with these names themselves?
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- jessamyn
I was hoping that they would name it "Operation Burning Bush."
posted by Rebis at 1:30 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by Rebis at 1:30 PM on September 19, 2001
The grandstanding ('America's hired killers') is getting out of hand around here. Does anyone actually want to listen to anyone else or are we all just blowing our trumpets?
posted by argybarg at 1:31 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by argybarg at 1:31 PM on September 19, 2001
cell divide - of course you are right, and I have almost certainly poisoned the thread with an off-handed comment. For the sake of any conversation here, regarding the naming of operations and their effects on public perception, I'll let posters know that I did not intend to be inflammatory and do not intend to 'defend' my now-obviously inflammatory remarks. If you insist, direct your wrath my way, but I hope that discussion on the Public Relations War can continue unpolluted. Carry on.
posted by ztt at 1:33 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by ztt at 1:33 PM on September 19, 2001
The Art of Naming Operations - via memepool
Methinks this is one where they choose the name deliberately... Though "infinite" is a bit too extravagent for my tastes. Sounds rather absolute and Judgement-Day-ish.
posted by whatnotever at 1:34 PM on September 19, 2001
Methinks this is one where they choose the name deliberately... Though "infinite" is a bit too extravagent for my tastes. Sounds rather absolute and Judgement-Day-ish.
posted by whatnotever at 1:34 PM on September 19, 2001
whatnotever - 'Infinite' is also disturbing to me, in light of the governments insistance that this will be an unusually long crusade. My worries are that, like other Wars against invisible targets, there are no conditions where victory can be achieved and thus no situation where the War would likely be ended.
posted by ztt at 1:37 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by ztt at 1:37 PM on September 19, 2001
Kind of related . . . . Israel hired a PR firm a while back to improve it's image.
posted by alana at 1:39 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by alana at 1:39 PM on September 19, 2001
I was hoping that they would name it "Operation Burning Bush."
Whoo Hoo! Yes! Rebis pokes his head from out the shadows to absolutely make my day. That's absolutely perfect, combining biblical and political imagery, with a bit of alliteration to frost the cake. Thank you, Rebis!
posted by jpoulos at 1:40 PM on September 19, 2001
Whoo Hoo! Yes! Rebis pokes his head from out the shadows to absolutely make my day. That's absolutely perfect, combining biblical and political imagery, with a bit of alliteration to frost the cake. Thank you, Rebis!
posted by jpoulos at 1:40 PM on September 19, 2001
Actually, I was thinking it ("infinite") related more the length of time it would take to complete...
posted by fooljay at 1:40 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by fooljay at 1:40 PM on September 19, 2001
As names go, it's almost as cringe-inducing as Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones
posted by ratbastard at 1:46 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by ratbastard at 1:46 PM on September 19, 2001
"poisoned thread" ... "off-handed comment"
It may have been off-handed ztt, but it sure revealed a lot about where you stand on these things.
Lumping all military personnel together under the heading "hired killers" is rhetorically identical to calling everyone in the US who looks Middle-Eastern "those fucking rag-heads."
Both are wrong, and wrong-headed. Think before you type.
posted by Irontom at 1:51 PM on September 19, 2001
It may have been off-handed ztt, but it sure revealed a lot about where you stand on these things.
Lumping all military personnel together under the heading "hired killers" is rhetorically identical to calling everyone in the US who looks Middle-Eastern "those fucking rag-heads."
Both are wrong, and wrong-headed. Think before you type.
posted by Irontom at 1:51 PM on September 19, 2001
As a former hired killer, we would often come up with names for exercises. Those that got past the various filters would be added to the pool for future exercise names.
Most of them ended up sounding like bad action films you would see late at night on the USA network. Cold Fury, Yukon Warrior, Arctic Thunder. Why, yes, this was in Alaska, why do you ask?
Another activity we had was game we played while on guard duty or waiting for an exercise to start. Come up with titles for X-rated movies based upon titles for normal movies. Just for fun, we would submit some of those as exercise names. I kept waiting for Exercise: On Golden Blonde but it never happened.
Ah, yes, your tax dollars at work...
posted by nickonomicon at 1:52 PM on September 19, 2001
Most of them ended up sounding like bad action films you would see late at night on the USA network. Cold Fury, Yukon Warrior, Arctic Thunder. Why, yes, this was in Alaska, why do you ask?
Another activity we had was game we played while on guard duty or waiting for an exercise to start. Come up with titles for X-rated movies based upon titles for normal movies. Just for fun, we would submit some of those as exercise names. I kept waiting for Exercise: On Golden Blonde but it never happened.
Ah, yes, your tax dollars at work...
posted by nickonomicon at 1:52 PM on September 19, 2001
one can also think while previewing and before clicking the Post button. hehe
Come on guys lets pay attention the name. Operation Infinite Justice. ??? They could have come up with some thing better than that.
In light of the economic, political, financial, geological and military functions of this operation, I thought a name like Operation Re-Conciliation would have been nice.
or something like Operation For Sustained Peace ?
posted by adnanbwp at 1:56 PM on September 19, 2001
Come on guys lets pay attention the name. Operation Infinite Justice. ??? They could have come up with some thing better than that.
In light of the economic, political, financial, geological and military functions of this operation, I thought a name like Operation Re-Conciliation would have been nice.
or something like Operation For Sustained Peace ?
posted by adnanbwp at 1:56 PM on September 19, 2001
Israel hired some PR folks. Bush, Gore, Clinton et al hired speech writers, PR people, polling orgainzations to hold focus groups, set up web sites etc etc...we are now in 2001 and not back with our founding fathers, who were able to do their own writing and speaking, though that said, a numberof those fine folks had others do touch ups to make sure the writing would get on the Net for free downloads.
posted by Postroad at 2:00 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by Postroad at 2:00 PM on September 19, 2001
What a coincidence! Osama Bin Laden named his operation "Infinite Justice" as well! Jeez, who are the fanatics now? "Aum Shinri Kyo", the name of the Japanese Buddhist cult, means "ultimate truth".
posted by zanpo at 2:01 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by zanpo at 2:01 PM on September 19, 2001
How about Operation "Up Your Butt With A Coconut"?
posted by UncleFes at 2:10 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by UncleFes at 2:10 PM on September 19, 2001
"Infinite Justice" strikes me as odd. Justice implies a balance, no? Infinite justice sounds like a spiraling of "hey, you got more justice than I did!" back and forth until we hit infinite justice.
But then it also reminds me of a washing machine that had settings for Infinite Water Level. I wouldn't want that in my basement.
posted by billder at 2:10 PM on September 19, 2001
But then it also reminds me of a washing machine that had settings for Infinite Water Level. I wouldn't want that in my basement.
posted by billder at 2:10 PM on September 19, 2001
It may have been off-handed ztt, but it sure revealed a lot about where you stand on these things.
And heaven forbid any of us reveal our, y'know, opinions around here.
Okay, okay, the phrase "hired killers" wasn't exactly necessary to the subject, but he already got called on it, and already apologized thoroughly and cogently. No need to pound the nail in any further...
As far as names go, I would like to submit "Operation Indignant Superpower" for consideration.
posted by ook at 2:13 PM on September 19, 2001
And heaven forbid any of us reveal our, y'know, opinions around here.
Okay, okay, the phrase "hired killers" wasn't exactly necessary to the subject, but he already got called on it, and already apologized thoroughly and cogently. No need to pound the nail in any further...
As far as names go, I would like to submit "Operation Indignant Superpower" for consideration.
posted by ook at 2:13 PM on September 19, 2001
Infinite Justice sounds rather biblical to me, which I guess fits in with the whole Crusade theme that's been thrown about here. Kinda creepy, really.
posted by Su at 2:21 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by Su at 2:21 PM on September 19, 2001
I know very few people in the armed forces, but the photos of them saying goodbye to their families under the headline "Infinite Justice" chilled me to the bone. And do we actually know where we're going with this yet? Or are we just getting ready to kick some indiscriminate Arab ass?
posted by swerve at 2:25 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by swerve at 2:25 PM on September 19, 2001
Does the military employ advertising and PR firms . . . I know for recruitment ads, some of the highest profile agencies in the world have done them. I wouldn't be surprised if some market research went into naming, too - though I can't imagine what sort of nutjob came up with "Operation Infinite Justice." I can just imagine Samuel Jackson's character from Pulp Fiction ranting on about "Operation Infinite Justice."
posted by sixdifferentways at 2:28 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by sixdifferentways at 2:28 PM on September 19, 2001
You know, although I didn't really think about it at the time (young and impetuous, y'know) my high school's mascot was the "Crusader".
I wonder if they are considering changing it (or have in the past)?
Yes, it was a Catholic high school...
posted by fooljay at 2:28 PM on September 19, 2001
I wonder if they are considering changing it (or have in the past)?
Yes, it was a Catholic high school...
posted by fooljay at 2:28 PM on September 19, 2001
Do you realize that "Operation Infinite Justice" is an anagram for "Initiate Jeep Incursion, Oft"?!? Coincidence? Anagrams never lie...
posted by gazingus at 2:30 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by gazingus at 2:30 PM on September 19, 2001
What's wrong with "hired killers"? It's remarkably accurate in describing America's (and most other nation's) military service, and the phrase is in fact cogent to the thread.
The reason we don't refer to our armed forces as "hired killers" or "poor-people-we-pay-to-fight-our-battles-because-we-rich-folks-are-frankly-cowards-and-we-also-don't-want-to-upset-our-portfolios" and instead use these billowy phrases like "Infinite Justice" is precisely what Georgie Orwell wrote about. One of those "genocide" transformed into "final solution/special treatment" kinds of moments.
PR, you know. Lies, you know.
I put the phrase "hired killer" on my resume to mark my military service. I was paid by my fellow Americans to basically do their bidding, and my root training was to kill on request, and train and order others to kill on request. Weasel words don't change that.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 2:31 PM on September 19, 2001
The reason we don't refer to our armed forces as "hired killers" or "poor-people-we-pay-to-fight-our-battles-because-we-rich-folks-are-frankly-cowards-and-we-also-don't-want-to-upset-our-portfolios" and instead use these billowy phrases like "Infinite Justice" is precisely what Georgie Orwell wrote about. One of those "genocide" transformed into "final solution/special treatment" kinds of moments.
PR, you know. Lies, you know.
I put the phrase "hired killer" on my resume to mark my military service. I was paid by my fellow Americans to basically do their bidding, and my root training was to kill on request, and train and order others to kill on request. Weasel words don't change that.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 2:31 PM on September 19, 2001
Excellent link, whatnotever. A shame it is buried here in the comments.
My choice would be "Operaton pressure the Arabic governments to police their own wildcard operatives"
posted by username at 2:33 PM on September 19, 2001
My choice would be "Operaton pressure the Arabic governments to police their own wildcard operatives"
posted by username at 2:33 PM on September 19, 2001
Infinite Justice sounds rather biblical to me
Jeesh, you'd think the people who think up these operation names would at least do a Yahoo search and realize that (prior to today) the phrase "infinite justice" has been used almost exclusively for an Attribute of God. Or, sarcasm aside, do some of you think this is really intentional?!
Even if you're gung ho about the military mission, and you want to see the world in religious terms, I'd think the thought "God in his Infinite Justice has allowed the WTC to be brought low but empowered the U.S. Armed Forces to kick ass" is not exactly the banner you'd want to fight under...?
posted by Zurishaddai at 2:43 PM on September 19, 2001
Jeesh, you'd think the people who think up these operation names would at least do a Yahoo search and realize that (prior to today) the phrase "infinite justice" has been used almost exclusively for an Attribute of God. Or, sarcasm aside, do some of you think this is really intentional?!
Even if you're gung ho about the military mission, and you want to see the world in religious terms, I'd think the thought "God in his Infinite Justice has allowed the WTC to be brought low but empowered the U.S. Armed Forces to kick ass" is not exactly the banner you'd want to fight under...?
posted by Zurishaddai at 2:43 PM on September 19, 2001
well...now it's time for all the domains...
infinitejustice.com/.net/.org are all taken...
but you can still get infinitejusticenews.com!!!
Just waiting for the spam e-mail to hit my inbox any time now:
"Don't wait. Get your Infinite Justice domain now!!!! All for a wonderful, super-duper low low low price. Create a website to support our troops! Special offer on Infinite Justice .info and .biz domains as well!"
Can't wait to see how many sites/domains come out of this one.
posted by nix at 2:47 PM on September 19, 2001
infinitejustice.com/.net/.org are all taken...
but you can still get infinitejusticenews.com!!!
Just waiting for the spam e-mail to hit my inbox any time now:
"Don't wait. Get your Infinite Justice domain now!!!! All for a wonderful, super-duper low low low price. Create a website to support our troops! Special offer on Infinite Justice .info and .biz domains as well!"
Can't wait to see how many sites/domains come out of this one.
posted by nix at 2:47 PM on September 19, 2001
"Infinite Justice" strikes me as odd. Justice implies a balance, no? Infinite justice sounds like a spiraling of "hey, you got more justice than I did!" back and forth until we hit infinite justice.
Get a grip, people. Its a meaningless name for an op, just as many before it. Operation "SeaLion", anybody? It acronyms well to operation IJ. So what? Many of you could and have come up with better names. Again, so what? This doesn't mean anything ... until someone refers to US military personel as "hired killers". That was totally out of line, inflamatory, atrocious, and a complete troll. zzt, do you have friends stationed in the Middle East? Considering your pathetic disclosure at login, do you even have a clue what it means to be an American serviceperson? Many would have us believe that those in the military right now are to be refered to as "dead men walking". Do you care, or are you trying to be important while sitting in your momma's basement wanking to your own opinions? Please let us know. I'm sure you'll dazzle our sensibilities with why you think "Infinite Justice" is such a goofy name.
fold_and_mutilate - my friends in service call themselves servicemen or peacekeepers. Just because you're bitter, doesn't mean the rest of them are, 'Kay?
posted by Wulfgar! at 2:47 PM on September 19, 2001
Get a grip, people. Its a meaningless name for an op, just as many before it. Operation "SeaLion", anybody? It acronyms well to operation IJ. So what? Many of you could and have come up with better names. Again, so what? This doesn't mean anything ... until someone refers to US military personel as "hired killers". That was totally out of line, inflamatory, atrocious, and a complete troll. zzt, do you have friends stationed in the Middle East? Considering your pathetic disclosure at login, do you even have a clue what it means to be an American serviceperson? Many would have us believe that those in the military right now are to be refered to as "dead men walking". Do you care, or are you trying to be important while sitting in your momma's basement wanking to your own opinions? Please let us know. I'm sure you'll dazzle our sensibilities with why you think "Infinite Justice" is such a goofy name.
fold_and_mutilate - my friends in service call themselves servicemen or peacekeepers. Just because you're bitter, doesn't mean the rest of them are, 'Kay?
posted by Wulfgar! at 2:47 PM on September 19, 2001
Wulfgar, I might suggest that mindsets such as yours are the reason why our shared conciousness is polluted with doublespeak, unquestioned and generally accepted by a public eager to believe. Indeed, my best and oldest friend joined the Air Force last year. He understands he is a 'hired killer', and joined, like most of his colleagues, because he was at the end of his rope, and needed a leg up. Not out of some imagined sense of Duty. He is missing, most likely in the Persian Gulf, I am unable to contact him. I worry for him. I worry that he very well may be a Dead Man Walking. These men are in a dangerous situation and many will likely lose their lives. Does that require us to buy into shared hallucinations of "Infinite Justice" and the unchallenged honor of the armed services? I don't believe that it does.
posted by ztt at 2:59 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by ztt at 2:59 PM on September 19, 2001
Most of them ended up sounding like bad action films you would see late at night on the USA network. Cold Fury, Yukon Warrior, Arctic Thunder.
Arctic Thunder, a video game by Midway, the creators of Hydro Thunder and other games of the kind, will be in stores tomorrow. Nah, it hasn't anything to do with military exercises, but, rather, madcap "xtreme" snowmobile racing.
And could ever forget Yukon Warrior on the Apple IIe?
posted by double+good at 3:00 PM on September 19, 2001
Arctic Thunder, a video game by Midway, the creators of Hydro Thunder and other games of the kind, will be in stores tomorrow. Nah, it hasn't anything to do with military exercises, but, rather, madcap "xtreme" snowmobile racing.
And could ever forget Yukon Warrior on the Apple IIe?
posted by double+good at 3:00 PM on September 19, 2001
Thanks, Rebis! I think Burning Bush would be just perfect, too! Infinite Justice does make me cringe, but not nearly as much as Attack of the Clones.
posted by misangela at 3:01 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by misangela at 3:01 PM on September 19, 2001
I think it sounds like the name of a wrestling pay-per-view event. For context, here are names of recent WWF pay per views:
No Mercy
Armageddon
Fully Loaded
Invasion
Insurrextion
Royal Rumble
Rebellion
Unforgiven
posted by owillis at 3:02 PM on September 19, 2001
No Mercy
Armageddon
Fully Loaded
Invasion
Insurrextion
Royal Rumble
Rebellion
Unforgiven
posted by owillis at 3:02 PM on September 19, 2001
That was totally out of line, inflamatory, atrocious, and a complete troll. zzt,
Maybe. And he apologized
sitting in your momma's basement wanking to your own opinions?
...and that wasn't a troll. Right?
posted by Su at 3:04 PM on September 19, 2001
Maybe. And he apologized
sitting in your momma's basement wanking to your own opinions?
...and that wasn't a troll. Right?
posted by Su at 3:04 PM on September 19, 2001
Oops, copied wrong shortcut. But anyways, he did. Page up.
posted by Su at 3:06 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by Su at 3:06 PM on September 19, 2001
The grandstanding ('America's hired killers') is getting out of hand around here. Does anyone actually want to listen to anyone else or are we all just blowing our trumpets?
Well, in todays all volunteer, paid military. That is precisely what we employ. In fact, I'd rather imagine some would think the term is rather flattering. However, particularly not worth getting in a huff about.
I was told and always thought that since Just Cause, that some computer in the Pentagon spit out two letter acronyms for all operations, even the smallest. The military powers that be then decided upon a fitting corresponding name. Finally, of course it's all P.R... what else should it be. We are talking about enhancing the galvanization of a nation(s).
posted by Dean_Paxton at 3:09 PM on September 19, 2001
Well, in todays all volunteer, paid military. That is precisely what we employ. In fact, I'd rather imagine some would think the term is rather flattering. However, particularly not worth getting in a huff about.
I was told and always thought that since Just Cause, that some computer in the Pentagon spit out two letter acronyms for all operations, even the smallest. The military powers that be then decided upon a fitting corresponding name. Finally, of course it's all P.R... what else should it be. We are talking about enhancing the galvanization of a nation(s).
posted by Dean_Paxton at 3:09 PM on September 19, 2001
Couldn't we just change the name to Operation Infinite Jest and carpet-bomb Afghanistan with copies of DFW's humongous tome?
Or is that against the Geneva Convention?
posted by RakDaddy at 3:12 PM on September 19, 2001
Or is that against the Geneva Convention?
posted by RakDaddy at 3:12 PM on September 19, 2001
I doubt I'm the first to say it... but this event sure has brought out the worst in the MeFi readership. Myself included, I freely admit.
Rhetoric, rhetoric, rhetoric.
posted by ook at 3:13 PM on September 19, 2001
Rhetoric, rhetoric, rhetoric.
posted by ook at 3:13 PM on September 19, 2001
David Foster Wallace. DFW. It's amazing-- First the Delillo cover of Underworld, now Infinite Jestice. I guess it's a real credit to DFW that he was so ahead of the curve.
posted by rikt at 3:23 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by rikt at 3:23 PM on September 19, 2001
So my question is: is this "Infinite Justice" countable or uncountable?
posted by bshort at 3:31 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by bshort at 3:31 PM on September 19, 2001
Or how about the 'Friends' title: 'The One with a Hundred Planes and an Egg Plant'
posted by feelinglistless at 3:40 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by feelinglistless at 3:40 PM on September 19, 2001
I was told and always thought that since Just Cause, that some computer in the Pentagon spit out two letter acronyms for all operations, even the smallest. The military powers that be then decided upon a fitting corresponding name.
Intriguing. One wonders if they learned early on to not generate Qs and Zs and Xs.
"Operation X T? What the hell am I supposed to do with that?"
"Well, sir, perhaps you could go with 'Xylophone Terror.'"
"Quiet, Metzger."
posted by cortex at 3:41 PM on September 19, 2001
Intriguing. One wonders if they learned early on to not generate Qs and Zs and Xs.
"Operation X T? What the hell am I supposed to do with that?"
"Well, sir, perhaps you could go with 'Xylophone Terror.'"
"Quiet, Metzger."
posted by cortex at 3:41 PM on September 19, 2001
Hey, Bush finally did something all by himself! Whatta name!
It is horrible. Simply horrible. Aside from the hideously inappropriate religious connotations, and the Infinite Jest memory trigger, it's a arrogant, swaggering lie (no justice is "infinite").
And "hired killers," while not PC, is an accurate enough description. If you don't have the stomach to deal with the negative connotation of "killer," then you are supremely unprepared for dealing with what is coming. Toughen up.
posted by rushmc at 4:28 PM on September 19, 2001
It is horrible. Simply horrible. Aside from the hideously inappropriate religious connotations, and the Infinite Jest memory trigger, it's a arrogant, swaggering lie (no justice is "infinite").
And "hired killers," while not PC, is an accurate enough description. If you don't have the stomach to deal with the negative connotation of "killer," then you are supremely unprepared for dealing with what is coming. Toughen up.
posted by rushmc at 4:28 PM on September 19, 2001
rushmc: What religious connotations? Is justice suddenly a purely religious concept? What on Earth are you talking about, or do you have any idea yourself?
posted by raysmj at 5:15 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by raysmj at 5:15 PM on September 19, 2001
That's just horrific. I guess they're banking on most Americans thinking that "infinite" just means "really, really big". You gotta love it when our political leaders try and cash in on their constituencies' purported ignorance.
I can see it now -- foreign-language media will translate it (if it ends up being the real name, of course) as:
America's Operation Never-Ending, Unremitting Irrational Merciless Vengeance Upon People We Always Wanted To Bomb the ___ Out of Anway.
posted by mattpfeff at 5:20 PM on September 19, 2001
I can see it now -- foreign-language media will translate it (if it ends up being the real name, of course) as:
America's Operation Never-Ending, Unremitting Irrational Merciless Vengeance Upon People We Always Wanted To Bomb the ___ Out of Anway.
posted by mattpfeff at 5:20 PM on September 19, 2001
raysmj: as was pointed out earlier, a simple yahoo search shows you how closely the phrase is associated with Chrstianity. read the thread before you attack people.
posted by jpoulos at 5:36 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by jpoulos at 5:36 PM on September 19, 2001
Operation Infinite Justice. Sounds like something out of The Tick ...
"We are a justice sandwich, no toppings necessary!"
posted by Scotch at 6:14 PM on September 19, 2001
"We are a justice sandwich, no toppings necessary!"
posted by Scotch at 6:14 PM on September 19, 2001
simple yahoo search shows you how closely the phrase is associated with Chrstianity.
Pardon the ignorance. One not wise enough to put every two-word phrase they hear into Yahoo! might mistakenly think most major religions would get around to the concepts of justice and infinity at some time.
While the name is pretty terrible, I don't think it's because it's so closely linked with Christianity. I think it's because it's so closely linked with stuff like this (which was Google's #1 result for the phrase).
posted by yerfatma at 6:23 PM on September 19, 2001
Pardon the ignorance. One not wise enough to put every two-word phrase they hear into Yahoo! might mistakenly think most major religions would get around to the concepts of justice and infinity at some time.
While the name is pretty terrible, I don't think it's because it's so closely linked with Christianity. I think it's because it's so closely linked with stuff like this (which was Google's #1 result for the phrase).
posted by yerfatma at 6:23 PM on September 19, 2001
jpoulos: Not an attack. An honest question, which I think yerfatma just answered. Spent a couple of semesters studying political theory, and "justice" comes up a lot. I remember the word infinite coming up a time or two as well. Also, remember the words come through translation of the Hebrew, so it was likely already a phrase in English. I know a little something about Christianity too, thanks, and didn't immediately pick up on the phrase as having "religious connotations." All that was drilled into me while growing up, and four years of grad school hasn't drained it out. Personally, I just think the name sounds a little cheesy. But I didn't like Operation Desert Storm, either. I don't like the whole "operation" thing at all, frankly.
posted by raysmj at 6:33 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by raysmj at 6:33 PM on September 19, 2001
As far as the religion thing goes, it's pretty well understood that whenever you're talking about something being infinite, it is related to God, who is the only limitless power in a limited universe. All things created by man are finite, and if this is 'infinite justice,' the implication is that this is God's war, not ours. We're just doing God's will on Earth.
To me, that's rather presumptuous, not to mention blasphemous. It's also incorrect. This 'war' is obviously not about justice as much as it is about revenge dressed up in different clothes. It started with enraged people taking revenge on innocent civilians and rationalizing it as just and necessary, and it's probably going to continue that way now that the ball's in our court.
posted by Hildago at 6:38 PM on September 19, 2001
To me, that's rather presumptuous, not to mention blasphemous. It's also incorrect. This 'war' is obviously not about justice as much as it is about revenge dressed up in different clothes. It started with enraged people taking revenge on innocent civilians and rationalizing it as just and necessary, and it's probably going to continue that way now that the ball's in our court.
posted by Hildago at 6:38 PM on September 19, 2001
TAKE OFF EVERY "ZIG"!
MOVE "ZIG" FOR INFINITE JUSTICE!
posted by daveadams at 6:50 PM on September 19, 2001
MOVE "ZIG" FOR INFINITE JUSTICE!
posted by daveadams at 6:50 PM on September 19, 2001
Whoo boy. Let's look at this:
" . . . it's pretty well understood that whenever you're talking about something being infinite, it is related to God"
Tell that to all my math teachers, blasphemous bastards. Or how about:
function beGod(me) {
document.write("I am all-powerful and ever-living!")
beGod(guessWho)
}
As for this:
"the implication is that this is God's war . . . We're just doing God's will on Earth.
To me, that's rather presumptuous, not to mention blasphemous. "
Yes, that would be presumtuous. As you imply, no one can know God's will. Given that, how do you know that it is not God's will? Unless you know that, haven't you just "blasphemed" by assuming you know God so well?
posted by yerfatma at 6:52 PM on September 19, 2001
" . . . it's pretty well understood that whenever you're talking about something being infinite, it is related to God"
Tell that to all my math teachers, blasphemous bastards. Or how about:
function beGod(me) {
document.write("I am all-powerful and ever-living!")
beGod(guessWho)
}
As for this:
"the implication is that this is God's war . . . We're just doing God's will on Earth.
To me, that's rather presumptuous, not to mention blasphemous. "
Yes, that would be presumtuous. As you imply, no one can know God's will. Given that, how do you know that it is not God's will? Unless you know that, haven't you just "blasphemed" by assuming you know God so well?
posted by yerfatma at 6:52 PM on September 19, 2001
rushmc: What religious connotations?
Infinite justice, infinite mercy, yadda yadda yadda. "Infinite" and "justice" each stand alone quite nicely, but it's hard to imagine them combined without thinking of some supreme (and infinite) being dispensing.
Another interpretation is that it's simply an oxymoron.
posted by rushmc at 7:03 PM on September 19, 2001
Infinite justice, infinite mercy, yadda yadda yadda. "Infinite" and "justice" each stand alone quite nicely, but it's hard to imagine them combined without thinking of some supreme (and infinite) being dispensing.
Another interpretation is that it's simply an oxymoron.
posted by rushmc at 7:03 PM on September 19, 2001
Hildago: Saying that God is on your side in war is indeed blasphemy. But no, it wasn't understood here that "infinite" implies a relation to God. Derrida, as shown here, discussed the idea of an "infinite justice." In any case, this is a tentative name, and hopefully they'll come up with some other op name or, best, do away with the op thing altogether. And note that a quote here says this will be more of an "operation" involving information and will than anything else. Still as skeptical as I think anyone should be in regard to possible military action, but I've seen so much cynicism here that it makes me skeptical in two directions -- of the government's critics, as well as of the government.
posted by raysmj at 7:10 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by raysmj at 7:10 PM on September 19, 2001
And "hired killers," while not PC, is an accurate enough description.
One of my very best friends (currently stationed in the Middle East) is a communications tech. Real dangerous killer, huh? Its not an accurate description except for mercs.
That was totally out of line, inflamatory, atrocious, and a complete troll. zzt,
Maybe. And he apologized
I apologize as well. I did miss zzt's earlier comment.
sitting in your momma's basement wanking to your own opinions?
...and that wasn't a troll. Right?
No, actually. That was a pissed off challenge to one who IMO undercut one (and actually several) of my friends. Again, I apologize.
If you don't have the stomach to deal with the negative connotation of "killer," then you are supremely unprepared for dealing with what is coming. Toughen up.
Umm .. excuse me? You don't know me, or what I'm prepared for. But I will tell you this, you are arrogantly assuming based on your delusions of what I and others think, and that makes you ill prepared for what's coming. Hired Killers is really good nomenclature for mercenaries. If American servicemen want to think of themselves as murderers for pay, then IMO (again) I don't think they should be in the service at all. Mercs go to whoever pays. Do you want the defenders of your nation thought of as mercs? Didn't think so.
posted by Wulfgar! at 7:23 PM on September 19, 2001
One of my very best friends (currently stationed in the Middle East) is a communications tech. Real dangerous killer, huh? Its not an accurate description except for mercs.
That was totally out of line, inflamatory, atrocious, and a complete troll. zzt,
Maybe. And he apologized
I apologize as well. I did miss zzt's earlier comment.
sitting in your momma's basement wanking to your own opinions?
...and that wasn't a troll. Right?
No, actually. That was a pissed off challenge to one who IMO undercut one (and actually several) of my friends. Again, I apologize.
If you don't have the stomach to deal with the negative connotation of "killer," then you are supremely unprepared for dealing with what is coming. Toughen up.
Umm .. excuse me? You don't know me, or what I'm prepared for. But I will tell you this, you are arrogantly assuming based on your delusions of what I and others think, and that makes you ill prepared for what's coming. Hired Killers is really good nomenclature for mercenaries. If American servicemen want to think of themselves as murderers for pay, then IMO (again) I don't think they should be in the service at all. Mercs go to whoever pays. Do you want the defenders of your nation thought of as mercs? Didn't think so.
posted by Wulfgar! at 7:23 PM on September 19, 2001
Still as skeptical as I think anyone should be in regard to possible military action, but I've seen so much cynicism here that it makes me skeptical in two directions -- of the government's critics, as well as of the government.
Then, pray, enlighten us! What is the path we should follow? (And yeah, in the face of the previous comment, that is kind of a troll).
posted by Wulfgar! at 7:26 PM on September 19, 2001
Then, pray, enlighten us! What is the path we should follow? (And yeah, in the face of the previous comment, that is kind of a troll).
posted by Wulfgar! at 7:26 PM on September 19, 2001
wulfgar!: (Did you have to have an exclamation mark there, leaving me feeling awkward about having a colon afterward?) Don't be unreasonable, that's all I'm thinking. Just coming here as someone who wants to be informed, not to hear cyncical remarks. Example: I read someone objecting - within the first ten or so remarks - to the tentative operation name for no other reason than, oh, they wanted "peace" in there. Nothing about religious connotations or such. Just objecting because . . . well, just because, I guess. I don't know. I do know, though, that I have a hard time taking people who engage in that sort of talk very seriously, and that such comments have a negative impact on those who should be taken more seriously. Sorry.
posted by raysmj at 7:40 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by raysmj at 7:40 PM on September 19, 2001
One of my very best friends (currently stationed in the Middle East) is a communications tech. Real dangerous killer, huh? Its not an accurate description except for mercs.
Funny, according to the law, the guy who drives the getaway car is as responsible/guilty as the guy who pulls the trigger...are you asking for special exemption from this principle?
posted by rushmc at 7:46 PM on September 19, 2001
Funny, according to the law, the guy who drives the getaway car is as responsible/guilty as the guy who pulls the trigger...are you asking for special exemption from this principle?
posted by rushmc at 7:46 PM on September 19, 2001
Umm .. excuse me? You don't know me, or what I'm prepared for. But I will tell you this, you are arrogantly assuming based on your delusions of what I and others think, and that makes you ill prepared for what's coming.
No idea what you're trying to say here, sorry.
Hired Killers is really good nomenclature for mercenaries.
I agree.
If American servicemen want to think of themselves as murderers for pay, then IMO (again) I don't think they should be in the service at all.
That's probably true. But you've changed the word from "killer" to "murderer," which changes everything.
Do you want the defenders of your nation thought of as mercs? Didn't think so.
Mercenaries work for anyone who will pay them. Somehow I have a hard time seeing U.S. military being given time off to go freelance a campaign for another government and/or individual.
posted by rushmc at 7:50 PM on September 19, 2001
No idea what you're trying to say here, sorry.
Hired Killers is really good nomenclature for mercenaries.
I agree.
If American servicemen want to think of themselves as murderers for pay, then IMO (again) I don't think they should be in the service at all.
That's probably true. But you've changed the word from "killer" to "murderer," which changes everything.
Do you want the defenders of your nation thought of as mercs? Didn't think so.
Mercenaries work for anyone who will pay them. Somehow I have a hard time seeing U.S. military being given time off to go freelance a campaign for another government and/or individual.
posted by rushmc at 7:50 PM on September 19, 2001
I've always felt that the military should have stuck with simple mnemonics for campaigns. MOGUL or CRUSADER is probably out, but maybe something like TOPHAT or RINGMASTER. Or why not just call it "Operational Plan DF-9" or something like that?
posted by mrmanley at 7:57 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by mrmanley at 7:57 PM on September 19, 2001
Wait, ATTACK OF THE FUCKING CLONES?! Lord have mercy!
posted by glenwood at 8:10 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by glenwood at 8:10 PM on September 19, 2001
wulfgar!: (Did you have to have an exclamation mark there, leaving me feeling awkward about having a colon afterward?) Don't be unreasonable, that's all I'm thinking.
Sorry, dude, its just my login. I didn't do it to make anybody feel differently at all about themselves. As for being unreasonable, that's open to debate, isn't it?
Funny, according to the law, the guy who drives the getaway car is as responsible/guilty as the guy who pulls the trigger...are you asking for special exemption from this principle?
Way too simplistic in implication. And it ignores the difference between a soldier and a thug. Am I asking that we see our armed forces differently than bank robbers? Well Duh!
Umm .. excuse me? You don't know me, or what I'm prepared for. But I will tell you this, you are arrogantly assuming based on your delusions of what I and others think, and that makes you ill prepared for what's coming.
No idea what you're trying to say here, sorry.
Then politely, let me spell it out. You think of soldiers as killers, yes? In the eventuality that they must, so be it. But to think of them as killers is precisely the thing that we thought of Osama, and exactlywhat lead to his role today. I don't think of our soldiers as killers because that taints their every move when they leave service, yes? Isn't that what you say they are, as opposed to what they do? If you say that those who don't like to refer to American soldiers as killers don't have the guts for the possible conflicts ahead, then you are arrogantly assuming that I must have a particular view of what role they will play in order to enable them to do the tasks they have sworn to do. I will not define their being by their commitments, but by their actions. I have close relatives who served in Vietnam. Yes, they killed people. They're haunted by it to this day. I have one of my closest friends serving in the Middle East right now. He's not a killer, no matter what you may think his potential is. Most of the servicemen that I've known who call themselves killers are pot-bellied bullies who read too much "Soldier of Fortune", and spend their time threatening poodles. The term "hired killers" is lame beyond imagination, and if you think that all servicemen are such, then you have no will to support that which must be done to DEFEND what it is America stands for. There will be a war on terrorists, and people will die. If any want to picket and scream "baby-killer", then please feel free. That's what America's about, and also what those who are in harms way are about. Hired killers, yeah, right.
posted by Wulfgar! at 8:26 PM on September 19, 2001
Sorry, dude, its just my login. I didn't do it to make anybody feel differently at all about themselves. As for being unreasonable, that's open to debate, isn't it?
Funny, according to the law, the guy who drives the getaway car is as responsible/guilty as the guy who pulls the trigger...are you asking for special exemption from this principle?
Way too simplistic in implication. And it ignores the difference between a soldier and a thug. Am I asking that we see our armed forces differently than bank robbers? Well Duh!
Umm .. excuse me? You don't know me, or what I'm prepared for. But I will tell you this, you are arrogantly assuming based on your delusions of what I and others think, and that makes you ill prepared for what's coming.
No idea what you're trying to say here, sorry.
Then politely, let me spell it out. You think of soldiers as killers, yes? In the eventuality that they must, so be it. But to think of them as killers is precisely the thing that we thought of Osama, and exactlywhat lead to his role today. I don't think of our soldiers as killers because that taints their every move when they leave service, yes? Isn't that what you say they are, as opposed to what they do? If you say that those who don't like to refer to American soldiers as killers don't have the guts for the possible conflicts ahead, then you are arrogantly assuming that I must have a particular view of what role they will play in order to enable them to do the tasks they have sworn to do. I will not define their being by their commitments, but by their actions. I have close relatives who served in Vietnam. Yes, they killed people. They're haunted by it to this day. I have one of my closest friends serving in the Middle East right now. He's not a killer, no matter what you may think his potential is. Most of the servicemen that I've known who call themselves killers are pot-bellied bullies who read too much "Soldier of Fortune", and spend their time threatening poodles. The term "hired killers" is lame beyond imagination, and if you think that all servicemen are such, then you have no will to support that which must be done to DEFEND what it is America stands for. There will be a war on terrorists, and people will die. If any want to picket and scream "baby-killer", then please feel free. That's what America's about, and also what those who are in harms way are about. Hired killers, yeah, right.
posted by Wulfgar! at 8:26 PM on September 19, 2001
I don't think of our soldiers as killers
Let me guess...you also believe in God, right?
First I'm told (in another thread, for those who missed it) that LOVE IS HATE...now I'm asked to accept that THOSE WHO KILL are not KILLERS. And here I thought it was so simple...that a word had a dictionary meaning that could be relied upon by even the most unreasonable....
posted by rushmc at 8:31 PM on September 19, 2001
Let me guess...you also believe in God, right?
First I'm told (in another thread, for those who missed it) that LOVE IS HATE...now I'm asked to accept that THOSE WHO KILL are not KILLERS. And here I thought it was so simple...that a word had a dictionary meaning that could be relied upon by even the most unreasonable....
posted by rushmc at 8:31 PM on September 19, 2001
Wulfgar! on ztt: ...trying to be important while sitting in your momma's basement wanking to your own opinions...
Wulfgar! takes exception to rushmc "arrogantly assuming based on your delusions of what I and others think"
Pot:Kettle:Hysterical
posted by Catch at 9:57 PM on September 19, 2001
Wulfgar! takes exception to rushmc "arrogantly assuming based on your delusions of what I and others think"
Pot:Kettle:Hysterical
posted by Catch at 9:57 PM on September 19, 2001
Operation We Will Get You would be my choice. The designated name is bad. But it doesn't matter. This is a stupid thread.
posted by ParisParamus at 11:25 PM on September 19, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 11:25 PM on September 19, 2001
“It would not be impossible to prove that with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas in disguise.”
— Joseph Goebbels
posted by raaka at 1:01 AM on September 20, 2001
— Joseph Goebbels
posted by raaka at 1:01 AM on September 20, 2001
Wasn't 'Infinite Justice' something to do with He Man. 'Behold Skeletor, the sword of Infinite Justice'.
posted by Summer at 3:38 AM on September 20, 2001
posted by Summer at 3:38 AM on September 20, 2001
Having just watched Apocalypse Now, I propose:
Operation Extreme Prejudice.
That's a joke, not a troll.
posted by jpoulos at 10:29 AM on September 20, 2001
Operation Extreme Prejudice.
That's a joke, not a troll.
posted by jpoulos at 10:29 AM on September 20, 2001
According to Salon, "Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld told a press conference that the Pentagon was considering finding a new name for Operation Infinite Justice after hearing from Muslim clerics that the term was offensive." Ah well. Better late than never.
posted by holgate at 1:06 PM on September 20, 2001
posted by holgate at 1:06 PM on September 20, 2001
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posted by cell divide at 1:25 PM on September 19, 2001