FCC Wants To Revoke Kevin Mitnick's Ham Radio License.

December 26, 2001 4:40 PM

FCC Wants To Revoke Kevin Mitnick's Ham Radio License. Don't they have better things to be worrying about right now? (from Politech)
posted by tpoh.org (35 comments total)

I forgot to mention in the description that it's a PDF. My bad, sorry about that.
posted by tpoh.org at 4:43 PM on December 26, 2001

The Register has an article on this as well.

I'm wondering how much Christopher Painter, the man who prosecuted Mitnick and is now a deputy chief of the Justice Dept, had to do with this. Mitnick has been (publically) good since getting out of prison and a Ham radio is not exactly a powerful hacking tool. Why the FCC would start investigating Mitnick now of all times seems odd at best and conspiratorial at worst.

Wired did an article (also linked above via The Register) earlier this month about a coincidental rendevous between Mitnick and Painter. Strange that this FCC stuff comes about mere weeks after the two were reunited.
posted by tsumo at 5:01 PM on December 26, 2001

Wasn't Mitnick also forbidden from having radios in prison because they thought he might rewire them and point goldeneye at the whitehouse?

Sounds reasonable.
posted by holloway at 5:13 PM on December 26, 2001

As someone who has recently been hacked, I'm supposed to have sympathy for this guy? I'm a pretty radical civil libertarian & can find all kinds of things--from John Ashcroft's hijacking of the Constitution to current copyright law--to throw a fit about, but I'm having a hard time working up much sympathy for Mr. Mitnick.
posted by barkingterrier at 5:32 PM on December 26, 2001

Having listened on numerous occasions to couple of licensed operator friends, I can say with some degree of certainty that the FCC takes amateur radio very seriously. I am also surprised that no-one has mentioned the possibility of packet radio. I’m not suggesting that KM has violated any of the restrictions placed on him since his release, but the opportunity would certainly exist. I think the larger risk would be the exposure required by the FCC to operate (announcing call signs every x minutes, etc.)
posted by chrish at 5:35 PM on December 26, 2001

But still, what connection can be possibly be made between the two? Sympathy or not, did his crime have anything to do with amateur radio, or a violation of FCC broadcast regulations?

If Kevin can be denied access to the airwaves for being a convicted felon, why is G. Gordon Liddy on the air?
posted by tpoh.org at 5:50 PM on December 26, 2001

I'm not familiar with ham radio. What kind of damage could Mitnick (or anyone) do? I was under the impression that the reason it's so hard to be a registered operator was so people wouldn't ignorantly interfere with the licensed radio spectrum.
posted by geoff. at 6:02 PM on December 26, 2001

Mefi is the equivalent of the 75 meter AM window. WB2MMR. Cryptic, eh?
posted by ParisParamus at 6:02 PM on December 26, 2001

I love these threads because all of us hams come out from lurking.

Seeing as how he was tampering with frequencies he wasn't allowed to operate on (cellular), I have no problem with the feds not renewing his license.
posted by jennak at 6:03 PM on December 26, 2001

The FCC occaisonally revokes the licenses of individuals convicted of certain types of criminal offenses. It has happened in the past for related and unrelated offences:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2001/06/28/4/
http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter/99/0813/#kv4fz

The latter being the most appropriate to this situation (the licensee was convicted of unrelated fraud charges).
posted by cvoid at 6:05 PM on December 26, 2001

My cable tv rates are too high... Is that related to Kevin?
posted by TacoConsumer at 6:05 PM on December 26, 2001

I'm not familiar with ham radio. What kind of damage could Mitnick (or anyone) do?

Not much. Or none. He could preace hacking to a global audience? Amateur radio was yesterday's Internet...
posted by ParisParamus at 6:08 PM on December 26, 2001

preach
posted by ParisParamus at 6:08 PM on December 26, 2001

I love these threads because all of us hams come out from lurking.

My development in this area was arrested, circa 1979.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:10 PM on December 26, 2001

Not much. Or none. He could preace hacking to a global audience? Amateur radio was yesterday's Internet...

That is so far from the truth it isn't even funny. Activities as a legitemate amatuer operator notwithstanding, the equipment can (and often is) used for all kinds of cutting edge nefarious purposes. Wireless systems in place all over the world operate under the guise of 'security through obscurity' considering the equipment and expertise out of reach of the average hacker. The reality of it is, 99% of the wireless devices you use every day are totally insecure and a potential security risk.
posted by cvoid at 6:22 PM on December 26, 2001

...I'm having a hard time working up much sympathy for Mr. Mitnick.

as someone who's sat on both sides of the fence [as an pain in the ass to system administrators and as an admin for an independent isp] i understand where you're coming from. yes, mitnick has pulled quite a bit of stuff in his time [jumping state and running from the law as well as the other charges he faced] but the state saw it fit to release him because he served his time. of course he's still on parole, but that still doesn't mean his rights need to be taken away one by one. i've had the pleasure of meeting kevin and one of my friends has lunch with him on a semi-regular basis. he's a fairly normal person that's been thrown into an extraordinary circumstance because of a gift that's been given to him that he didn't use the way it should be.

the big question to ask here is if kevin will get an opportunity to renew his ham license after he has served his parole. we give people who get convicted of drunk driving their driver's license back after they've done their time. by applying the logic you're using what's to say the reformed drunk driver won't go run up on the sidewalk after taking a trip to the liquor store? we don't know.

honestly it sounds like you're superimposing your view of "hackers" over your view of kevin. i'm not here to play hacker advocate, but i'm willing to bet that your experience with being hacked involved either your webpage being changed or an exploit on a security hole that was well known but not patched. unfortunately there are plenty of fourteen year old kids who have plenty of free time to run a basic script or program and turn your world inside out for anywhere from an afternoon to a couple months. yeah, it's not cool that there's programs out there that are publicly available that allow john q. public to break your system... but it's even less cool that software companies can't get their act together and scramble on getting a patch out and admins can't apply the patches when they're finally issued. i do the webdev, the accounts receivable, technical support and help administer the network and when an exploit/patch comes out i take time to disable the service until i can apply the patch [which i normally do right after i disable the service] so any angry admins out there with a "lack of time" or happen to be "far too busy" please save your gripes.

what you need to understand is the smarter kids who actually write the exploits or start to learn what the exploits do eventually go into security and are good at it. of course this is opposed to the mcse's and [potential mcse's] who thought computers would be a good field to get into yet don't have clue one what security really means. so that "hacker", if he did something interesting instead of just running a script and replacing your web content will probably be the person who keeps the internet secure when you grow old and computers aren't as much of a concern to you as they are now. go ahead and shudder at that fact. it should scare you.

but it seems i've wandered off on a tangent with a bullwhip in search of a horse... let me cover my main points:

:: kevin mitnick is still a human being - bottom line.
:: if the fcc revokes his license renewal he should have full rights to get it back once his parole is up.
:: just because you've had a bad experience with a hacker doesn't mean all of them are the dregs of society that deserve to have their rights suspended.
posted by boogah at 6:27 PM on December 26, 2001

I wasn't suggesting what Mitnick really is; just what the arguments are...
posted by ParisParamus at 6:31 PM on December 26, 2001

The reality of it is, 99% of the wireless devices you use every day are totally insecure and a potential security risk.

preach on. there's a fair ammount of people who are like linus and his blanket... once the blanket is pulled away there's a huge fuss.

you are not as secure as you think.
posted by boogah at 6:39 PM on December 26, 2001

Is there such a thing as ham-radio hacking? Who the hell knows? This is a symptom of the law and the mainstream media's technical ignorance. I guess they think for safety's sake they better keep him away from anything electronic, maybe they'll tell the guys at Home Depot not to sell Mitnick a power drill.
posted by jonmc at 7:37 PM on December 26, 2001

Ham radio hacking? Since the airwaves are open to all for listening, not really. Actually, Amateur Radio is sufficiently moribund that it could use some excitement.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:45 PM on December 26, 2001

The issue here isn't what damage Mitnick can do as a ham radio operator. The issue is that, under federal law, no one has a "right" to an operator's license unless the FCC determines that the grant or renewal of the license serves the public interest. In order to make that determination, the FCC logically takes a harder look at someone with prior felony convictions, especially if they involve violation of federal communications law like Mitnick's do.

In paragraph 8 of the hearing order, the FCC logically states that "a conviction for fraudulent conduct plainly calls into question a licensee's ability to act in a manner consonant with FCC regulations." This is doubly so when the felonies implicate federal communications law violations.

Conspiracy theories aside, this action has nothing to do with persecution of Mitnick. It's just business as usual for the FCC. Under the current regime, citizens get licenses only at the sufferance of the government. If you disagree with that policy, I heartily encourage you to lobby your Congresscritter about the matter.
posted by mikewas at 8:11 PM on December 26, 2001

--I can say with some degree of certainty that the FCC takes amateur radio very seriously--

HAHAHAHAH... yeah right.. FCC could give 2 shits about ham radio..


Ham radio is just about DEAD.

It is a WASTE of bandwidth that can be -USED- for something.

Best quote I've seen on mefi:
"Amateur radio was yesterday's Internet..."

That is the truth!

--... ...--
posted by BlitzK at 9:22 PM on December 26, 2001

Actually, amateur radio may have a renaissance once (1) space is colonized; or (2) extraterrestrials are discovered. But essentially, the thrill of communicating worldwide largely evaporated some time around 1980: it's too mundane now, even if bouncing radio waves off the sky is, still, kind of cool. As for the public service/disaster aspect, cell phones have largely supplanted it. What a tangent...wheeee!
posted by ParisParamus at 9:46 PM on December 26, 2001

But essentially, the thrill of communicating worldwide largely evaporated some time around 1980

"Largley", yes, but, Paris, I have to disagree overall. Yes, the immediate gratification of talking to a person on the other side of the blue marble has lessened with the advent of the new technologies. However, I would argue that getting to know someone on the "other side" via email (or whatever medium) is still one of the coolest things about a world-wide link.

Hell, after 20 years, it still catches my fancy. I am still hooked.
posted by dataport72 at 11:01 PM on December 26, 2001

Who let the trolls out of the Slashdot cage and brought them over here??
posted by manero at 1:12 AM on December 27, 2001

Kevin Mitnick is the AntiElvis. But in a sexxxy way.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:29 AM on December 27, 2001

Boogah, thanks for your thoughtful, extended reply. Still, it misses the point, I think. Sure KM is still a "human being" but even you admit he misused his "gifts." The FCC as guardian of what amounts to a public space has the responsibility to keep sabatours out of that space. Maybe KM should be given another chance--I just said I didn't have much sympathy for him. I don't have much sympathy for the drunk driver when he gets his license back, either. Nobody is talking about "taking away rights . . . one by one"--as somebody pointed out in this thread a ham license is not a right (& neither is a driver's license).

Also, you make a number of weird asumptions about my security & my experience being hacked, none of which is correct. And by the way, I'm already pretty old & still interested in computers--your "youthism" is showing. Computers & networks only become socially important when people use them for work unconnected with computers & networks, i.e., writing, editing, teaching, etc. Computers are important insofar as they are intellectual tools--not toys for amoral children of whatever age.
posted by barkingterrier at 6:47 AM on December 27, 2001

Lest we digress...the simple questions to ask are:
1) Has Mitnick satisfied the terms of his sentence?
2) Has he improperly used his amatuer radio license?
If 1=yes and 2=no, then this is simply a vindictive government agency misusing its regulatory power.
posted by O Boingo at 8:54 AM on December 27, 2001

As for the public service/disaster aspect, cell phones have largely supplanted it. What a tangent...wheeee!

I guess you are one of those people who have never been in a disaster situation with a cell phone. Two things happen: cell-cites go offline due to damage and cell infrastructure gets saturated to the point of unusability almost immediately. Amateur communications take over, providing incredibly valuable services to the community.

Status of storms in the Carribean? Those news reports? You'd never know it, but those reports are largely handled by hams and relayed to the ConUS.

The WTC situation? Yes, cell phones were useless. Again, hams volunteering from all over the country to assist with communications.

Amatuer radio is far from dead. It just has some PR problems, causing it to be largely "unheard" by the mainstream media. That coupled with a lot of new technologies being born in the amateur community (aprs, etc) doesn't really indicate to me that it is dying... it's just not mainstream. Some people like it that way.
posted by cvoid at 9:04 AM on December 27, 2001

yes ham radio is dead. no need to worry about it. now if you'll excuse me I have to go work Heard Island...

73s
posted by birdsong at 9:05 AM on December 27, 2001

JennaK where did you read that he was accessing cellular frequencies with his setup?
posted by daver at 9:53 AM on December 27, 2001

Also, you make a number of weird asumptions about my security & my experience being hacked, none of which is correct. And by the way, I'm already pretty old & still interested in computers--your "youthism" is showing.

apologies for puffing up my chest and beating at it like a gorilla. i'll admit that i did overreact and made a bigger deal out of things than i should have. lots of times, tone cannot be conveyed in a post and i tend to have an inner voice of "unsympathetic bastard". the tone i got was "i hope he loses whatever because he's a convicted hacker." so of course i went "knee jerk liberal powers... activate!".

i've really got to learn to respect others opinions if mine are to be respected...

last night i bothered to do some research after catching mikewas's comments about business as usual at the fcc and yeah the fcc has yoinked licenses for much lighter offenses. but i do hope kevin has the right to earn his license back after he's served his due to society. we do need all the hams we can get. it's not a dead technology, nor is it about to cry it's death knell...
posted by boogah at 11:19 AM on December 27, 2001

Daver:

Mr. Mitnick also has admitted using a number of means to commit his crimes, including "social engineering," cloned cellular telephones, "sniffer" programs placed on
victims’ computer systems and hacker software programs.

See paragraph 4 of the FCC order.

Oboingo, as I've already said, the FCC is REQUIRED BY LAW to closely examine - all the hearing order is saying - whether or not they think Mitnick will comply with FCC regulations, which are a requirement for his license. His past activities in violating telecommunications law raise a serious question as to whether or not he will. Vindictive? Hardly. They would treat any other telcom felon the same.
posted by mikewas at 11:23 AM on December 27, 2001

Yep, saw that bit. This refers to his previous actions, not anything new. I thought JennaK meant that he was using his ham setup to access ceullular frequencies. I have no idea if that can even be done.
posted by daver at 12:12 PM on December 27, 2001

I thought JennaK meant that he was using his ham setup to access ceullular frequencies. I have no idea if that can even be done.

yes and no. listening on signals can be done with a ham rig, but transmiting is a bit harder. there's a rudimentary understanding of how cellular technology works that's required before i can bore you with any further details.

[analog listening can be done fairly on the cheap but hardly anyone uses analog to provide service anymore. there still is an analog network present in a large area of the u.s. as a "fallback". listening in on a digital signal is a bit harder because it transmits over spread spectrum - meaning bits of the signal is sent over multiple channels - but that's not to say that it can't or hasn't been done.]
posted by boogah at 1:21 PM on December 27, 2001