NaNoWriMo NoMo
April 2, 2025 10:11 AM Subscribe
On Monday night, NaNoWriMo—the organization behind the annual National Novel Writing Month, which takes place each November—sent an email to its community that began, “We come to you today with sad news. After six years of struggling to sustain itself financially, NaNoWriMo (the nonprofit) will begin the process of shutting down.” (h/t jenfullmoon)
Gizmodo:
Gizmodo:
The drama continued to boil up within NaNoWriMo in 2023 when a content moderator involved with the organization’s Young Writer’s Program forum was accused of running a smut site and grooming underage users. In addition to those claims, users complained about a general lack of attention from moderators that left user reports and complaints unresolved. While the board of the organization could not verify all of the allegations against the moderator accused of grooming, it opted to shut down the forum.
Perhaps the highest profile stumble for NaNoWriMo came last year, though, when the organization issued a statement on the use of artificial intelligence. While the organization said it neither supports nor opposes the use of AI in writing, it did state, “We also want to be clear in our belief that the categorical condemnation of Artificial Intelligence has classist and ableist undertones, and that questions around the use of AI tie to questions around privilege.”
Oh, no! Now I have NaNoWriMo NoMo FOMO!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:23 AM on April 2 [39 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:23 AM on April 2 [39 favorites]
Finally, the shackles are loosened, and we can write in ANY MONTH WE WANT! Even OCTOBER!
posted by mittens at 10:28 AM on April 2 [37 favorites]
posted by mittens at 10:28 AM on April 2 [37 favorites]
But if you write in October, you're limited to octavos.
posted by Atreides at 10:29 AM on April 2 [11 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 10:29 AM on April 2 [11 favorites]
They embraced AI and then tried to play off like being anti-AI is "classist and ableist"?
Good riddance. Maybe a new set of folks who want to support writers will fill that niche. NaNoWriMo has been shaky for a few years, and everything around their AI-slop endorsement and hamfisted and frankly weird defense of it was just the final straw.
posted by tclark at 10:31 AM on April 2 [17 favorites]
Good riddance. Maybe a new set of folks who want to support writers will fill that niche. NaNoWriMo has been shaky for a few years, and everything around their AI-slop endorsement and hamfisted and frankly weird defense of it was just the final straw.
posted by tclark at 10:31 AM on April 2 [17 favorites]
Bad author! October is a NoNoWriMo!
posted by phooky at 10:34 AM on April 2 [7 favorites]
posted by phooky at 10:34 AM on April 2 [7 favorites]
Thank you, Lemkin, this needed to be written about :)
This is disappointing. I hate that such a good idea just devolved into this mess and had all this mismanagement. I burned out on NaNo before all of this happened, but I did it for...17 years? Something like that? It was a long time. God knows I am not a novelist/fiction writer and I never liked any of my work enough to do something with it, but at least it gave me the motivation and impetus to try, I made some friends, and it was a good time.
I wonder what Chris Baty (founder) thinks of it all.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:37 AM on April 2 [10 favorites]
This is disappointing. I hate that such a good idea just devolved into this mess and had all this mismanagement. I burned out on NaNo before all of this happened, but I did it for...17 years? Something like that? It was a long time. God knows I am not a novelist/fiction writer and I never liked any of my work enough to do something with it, but at least it gave me the motivation and impetus to try, I made some friends, and it was a good time.
I wonder what Chris Baty (founder) thinks of it all.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:37 AM on April 2 [10 favorites]
As someone on the newly minted board of a relaunching national hobbyist organization, I simultaneously feel for the org because non-profit fund raising and budgeting is a giant pile of suck right now.
But also, how in the heck do they have staff/payroll of $800-900K per year? That seems absolutely wild for their org's mission.
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:39 AM on April 2 [16 favorites]
But also, how in the heck do they have staff/payroll of $800-900K per year? That seems absolutely wild for their org's mission.
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:39 AM on April 2 [16 favorites]
yeah on the one hand this is really sad all around but on the other hand I have been having MaNoWritMo (and now ApNoWriMo) and it's been going pretty great! write every month!!
posted by supermedusa at 10:43 AM on April 2 [6 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 10:43 AM on April 2 [6 favorites]
I'd say the NaNoWriMo announcement referring to the "vitriol" over AI is correct. I teach college writing, and one of the suggestions I offer to my students is that they try to consider the motivations of people with whom they disagree. So I think about "the AI problem" for NaNoWriMo the same way I think about AI-related plagiarism at the university: how do you prevent it, and/or how do you evaluate it after the fact?
The only valid tool for prevention is the writing process: get students invested in what they're writing early, so they want to do the work. There is no reliable after-the-fact detection for AI. So the NaNoWriMo organization did what any nonprofit would do: they decided that they would not take responsibility for enforcement of a no-AI policy, which would have destroyed them in terms of resources or the inevitable scandal when somebody got away with transgressing the policy.
posted by vitia at 10:46 AM on April 2 [4 favorites]
The only valid tool for prevention is the writing process: get students invested in what they're writing early, so they want to do the work. There is no reliable after-the-fact detection for AI. So the NaNoWriMo organization did what any nonprofit would do: they decided that they would not take responsibility for enforcement of a no-AI policy, which would have destroyed them in terms of resources or the inevitable scandal when somebody got away with transgressing the policy.
posted by vitia at 10:46 AM on April 2 [4 favorites]
So the NaNoWriMo organization did what any nonprofit would do: they decided that they would not take responsibility for enforcement of a no-AI policy
No, this is silly. All they had to do was nothing. All they had to do was not mention AI at all. Or say, hey, we'd prefer if people actually wrote their own work but we don't have the resources to even attempt to enforce a no-AI policy. Or say, whether or not you use AI is up to you. They really didn't have to go down this road.
posted by joannemerriam at 10:53 AM on April 2 [30 favorites]
No, this is silly. All they had to do was nothing. All they had to do was not mention AI at all. Or say, hey, we'd prefer if people actually wrote their own work but we don't have the resources to even attempt to enforce a no-AI policy. Or say, whether or not you use AI is up to you. They really didn't have to go down this road.
posted by joannemerriam at 10:53 AM on April 2 [30 favorites]
It's been a long time since I was involved, but the organization used to do good stuff setting up meetups and writing groups in a lot of different places — and I got the impression they were really supporting those groups, not just letting people search by location and saying "great, go figure it out for yourself."
Idk if that was worth $800k a year. Probably not. But it's sad they won't be there providing that.
posted by Birds, snakes, and aeroplanes at 10:53 AM on April 2 [4 favorites]
Idk if that was worth $800k a year. Probably not. But it's sad they won't be there providing that.
posted by Birds, snakes, and aeroplanes at 10:53 AM on April 2 [4 favorites]
But also, how in the heck do they have staff/payroll of $800-900K per year? That seems absolutely wild for their org's mission
A non-profit with a puzzlingly large payroll and users complaining about moderation?
I’ve never heard of such a thing.
posted by Lemkin at 10:57 AM on April 2 [22 favorites]
A non-profit with a puzzlingly large payroll and users complaining about moderation?
I’ve never heard of such a thing.
posted by Lemkin at 10:57 AM on April 2 [22 favorites]
But also, how in the heck do they have staff/payroll of $800-900K per year?
They had 17 employees, and the ED was only making $120K, so it's not like someone was hauling away bags of cash. The org did a lot more than the single November event - they ran local events throughout the year, provided facilitation and support materials to volunteers and literacy organizations.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 10:57 AM on April 2 [17 favorites]
They had 17 employees, and the ED was only making $120K, so it's not like someone was hauling away bags of cash. The org did a lot more than the single November event - they ran local events throughout the year, provided facilitation and support materials to volunteers and literacy organizations.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 10:57 AM on April 2 [17 favorites]
Moderation is hard and it anti-scales, it’s why the “network effect” isn’t a free lunch.
posted by clew at 11:20 AM on April 2 [7 favorites]
posted by clew at 11:20 AM on April 2 [7 favorites]
I do think there's a tendency to underestimate how much payroll takes in a non-profit environment, and the idea that non-profit employees should be cheap as hell and do absolutely everything is endemic to the field.
I've never done NaNoWriMo (weird acronym, this might be my first time typing it out) but the expectation that it was a functioning organization that actually supported the mission means that they also had a bunch of people to pay. I personally think that people deserve to be paid for their work, even if their work is invisible to many.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 11:21 AM on April 2 [15 favorites]
I've never done NaNoWriMo (weird acronym, this might be my first time typing it out) but the expectation that it was a functioning organization that actually supported the mission means that they also had a bunch of people to pay. I personally think that people deserve to be paid for their work, even if their work is invisible to many.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 11:21 AM on April 2 [15 favorites]
As I said, I've become increasingly aware over the last couple of years at just how much funding it takes to make a professional non-profit work and what impacts salaries have. We just elected to sign with an AMC to help manage some of those costs while we invest a fair amount of our effort and capital into reinvigorating the org and the hobby.
Leaves our staffing at 1 FTE, 0.5 contractor and a ton of volunteer labor Even at the height of staffing while we put on multi-million dollar conferences, published a magazine, videos, etc, there were only ~5.5 FTEs with additional "part time" labor and overhead charges to the parent org.
Anyone have the staff breakdown? I know moderation is expensive and soul sucking, but how much of that staff was doing content enforcement?
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:23 PM on April 2 [3 favorites]
Leaves our staffing at 1 FTE, 0.5 contractor and a ton of volunteer labor Even at the height of staffing while we put on multi-million dollar conferences, published a magazine, videos, etc, there were only ~5.5 FTEs with additional "part time" labor and overhead charges to the parent org.
Anyone have the staff breakdown? I know moderation is expensive and soul sucking, but how much of that staff was doing content enforcement?
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:23 PM on April 2 [3 favorites]
how much of that staff was doing content enforcement?
The bigger problem was the one doing content creation.
posted by Lemkin at 12:37 PM on April 2
The bigger problem was the one doing content creation.
posted by Lemkin at 12:37 PM on April 2
the organization used to do good stuff setting up meetups and writing groups in a lot of different places — and I got the impression they were really supporting those groups, not just letting people search by location and saying "great, go figure it out for yourself."
They changed the rules for Municipal Liaisons (volunteers running those local groups) in early 2024 in a way that made them quit en masse - I know one point of contention was limiting all communication between volunteers and participants to English-only, which was illegal in many EU countries - and then took away all the online tools they were providing even if someone had agreed to the new volunteer contract. This on top of closing and wiping the forums basically cut the legs out from under the social aspect of NaNoWriMo. No wonder donations decreased rather than increased. Many Municipal Liaisons took their established groups and discords to other pastures, because it turns out the social aspect was why people kept coming back year after year.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:55 PM on April 2 [8 favorites]
They changed the rules for Municipal Liaisons (volunteers running those local groups) in early 2024 in a way that made them quit en masse - I know one point of contention was limiting all communication between volunteers and participants to English-only, which was illegal in many EU countries - and then took away all the online tools they were providing even if someone had agreed to the new volunteer contract. This on top of closing and wiping the forums basically cut the legs out from under the social aspect of NaNoWriMo. No wonder donations decreased rather than increased. Many Municipal Liaisons took their established groups and discords to other pastures, because it turns out the social aspect was why people kept coming back year after year.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:55 PM on April 2 [8 favorites]
Zero tears shed for these AI shills.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 1:02 PM on April 2 [5 favorites]
posted by GallonOfAlan at 1:02 PM on April 2 [5 favorites]
Honestly, discovering that NaNoWriMo had a whole organizational infrastructure around it kinda surprised me, as though I'd just learned that Taco Tuesday or Noirvember had some official governing body.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:23 PM on April 2 [13 favorites]
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:23 PM on April 2 [13 favorites]
I permanently gave up on NaNo after the one-two punch of the forum issues and AI endorsement. I have a good dozen shirts and pins from participating and donating to 'em over the years and whenever I see them in my closet I can't help but feel anger. It's astounding how the organization betrayed the core beliefs of the endeavor. While I'm saddened it's come to this, it's probably for the best.
posted by gturner at 1:24 PM on April 2 [5 favorites]
posted by gturner at 1:24 PM on April 2 [5 favorites]
tried to play off like being anti-AI is "classist and ableist"?
Which, ironically, was kind of classist and ableist in itself, implying that working class and/or racialized people need AI to allow them to write in the first place.
posted by asnider at 2:46 PM on April 2 [8 favorites]
Which, ironically, was kind of classist and ableist in itself, implying that working class and/or racialized people need AI to allow them to write in the first place.
posted by asnider at 2:46 PM on April 2 [8 favorites]
I gave up on NaNo because it's in November. Which is a terrible time to jam writing into your day if you're the person tasked with Thanksgiving.
posted by fiercekitten at 3:09 PM on April 2 [11 favorites]
posted by fiercekitten at 3:09 PM on April 2 [11 favorites]
Yeah, but think about how much time you save that month by not masturbating.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 4:09 PM on April 2 [6 favorites]
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 4:09 PM on April 2 [6 favorites]
fiercekitten: "I gave up on NaNo because it's in November. Which is a terrible time to jam writing into your day if you're the person tasked with Thanksgiving."
yeah but in the US the time change meant ya got a whole extra hour to write!
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:17 PM on April 2 [1 favorite]
yeah but in the US the time change meant ya got a whole extra hour to write!
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:17 PM on April 2 [1 favorite]
I also wonder what Chris thinks about all the shenanigans. I haven’t talked to him in quite some time, but he seemed like a fundamentally decent guy when I was their de facto shipping department in 2007.
posted by hototogisu at 5:07 PM on April 2 [4 favorites]
posted by hototogisu at 5:07 PM on April 2 [4 favorites]
it's not like someone was hauling away bags of cash
If there had really been a burglar in a black-and-white striped jersey and a Lone Ranger mask tiptoeing out with a bulging burlap sack with a dollar sign on it, that would have been pretty funny.
Or it could be an Ocean's 11 style caper where the gang breaks into the supposedly uncrackable NaNoWriMo safe, using their collective powers.
posted by Lemkin at 5:42 PM on April 2
If there had really been a burglar in a black-and-white striped jersey and a Lone Ranger mask tiptoeing out with a bulging burlap sack with a dollar sign on it, that would have been pretty funny.
Or it could be an Ocean's 11 style caper where the gang breaks into the supposedly uncrackable NaNoWriMo safe, using their collective powers.
posted by Lemkin at 5:42 PM on April 2
I know someone has the right to move on, want to do something different, and move on from their own brainchild, but I can't help but think that once Chris left the business to others, it all went to hell. I'd feel terrible if I was him.
But people can certainly write novels on their own now, hopefully find their own communities, etc. at least.
I wish I'd written something decent when I tried it. I think I'm terrible at book writing and by the time I was done, I never wanted to look at my own work again. I wish I had that stick-to-it-ness over my own writing, to keep editing it and working on it instead of wanting to barf and run away. I'm fine with short writing, but coming out with long projects seems to be an issue with me. But at least I know I can turn out 50k if I want to, technically speaking.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:01 PM on April 2 [4 favorites]
But people can certainly write novels on their own now, hopefully find their own communities, etc. at least.
I wish I'd written something decent when I tried it. I think I'm terrible at book writing and by the time I was done, I never wanted to look at my own work again. I wish I had that stick-to-it-ness over my own writing, to keep editing it and working on it instead of wanting to barf and run away. I'm fine with short writing, but coming out with long projects seems to be an issue with me. But at least I know I can turn out 50k if I want to, technically speaking.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:01 PM on April 2 [4 favorites]
I'm still not entirely convinced the AI thing wasn't intended as a distraction from the whole "grooming minors on the unmoderated forums" thing.
posted by SansPoint at 8:05 PM on April 2 [2 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 8:05 PM on April 2 [2 favorites]
I am genuinely sad about this. The AI thing was shit and made me angry and sad and disappointed, the 'grooming minors' thing was horrific, but (as with Omegle, RIP), I can recognize that among the shit that happened, I had some really positive experiences on NaNo (and Camp NaNo which aligned with my Southern Hemisphere year better) as a teenager, and met people who are still friends over a decade later.
To be fair, I last logged in in like, 2015, because that writing and those friends all moved to a circle of Wordpress blogs about then, but this is still like seeing the house you lived in as a child torn down.
posted by ngaiotonga at 1:39 AM on April 3 [2 favorites]
To be fair, I last logged in in like, 2015, because that writing and those friends all moved to a circle of Wordpress blogs about then, but this is still like seeing the house you lived in as a child torn down.
posted by ngaiotonga at 1:39 AM on April 3 [2 favorites]
I used to tutor people in writing, and one lady who was fairly old stuck with me. She was highly motivated and willing to work, but writing just didn't seem to click with her. I'm still at a loss for what else I could have done to help her. She was right there in the use case that "AI" could have meaningfully helped. That's putting aside all of the ethical problems with training "AI," both in power consumption and in the theft of the work of others, of course.
What worries me is that sustaining something like NaNoWriMo over a long period is really hard. Trying to keep their organization afloat and continuing to help people means seeking out revenue. That probably was what pushed them to the sponsorship, and that they didn't see it as a conflict of interest so much as a synergistic thing. But because it happened, they stumbled into a pile of community ill will that pretty much destroyed the whole thing, and that along with the problem with the content moderator* means now there's no NaNoWriMo: a genuinely good thing that helped a lot of people that no longer exists. And it feels like in the long run, this happens to everything.
* What does "accused of running a smut site" even mean? What happened there? There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that, is there? Is it that it leaked into their interaction with kids? I've seen accusations of grooming used as a cudgel against people before, especially against queer people.
posted by JHarris at 3:56 AM on April 3 [1 favorite]
What worries me is that sustaining something like NaNoWriMo over a long period is really hard. Trying to keep their organization afloat and continuing to help people means seeking out revenue. That probably was what pushed them to the sponsorship, and that they didn't see it as a conflict of interest so much as a synergistic thing. But because it happened, they stumbled into a pile of community ill will that pretty much destroyed the whole thing, and that along with the problem with the content moderator* means now there's no NaNoWriMo: a genuinely good thing that helped a lot of people that no longer exists. And it feels like in the long run, this happens to everything.
* What does "accused of running a smut site" even mean? What happened there? There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that, is there? Is it that it leaked into their interaction with kids? I've seen accusations of grooming used as a cudgel against people before, especially against queer people.
posted by JHarris at 3:56 AM on April 3 [1 favorite]
I attempted to Nano a WriMo three times while I was in grad school. Failed completely but came out if it with some amazing writer friends. Some of whom met and ended up married because of the community. One of my water friends even published her nanowrimo - I have a copy on my bookshelf.
I have no idea about the AI and possible grooming, I just want to pause a moment and remember the wonderful nights spent drinking wine and playing scrabble with amazing people. Maybe I should pick up R’s book and read it one more time.
posted by sciencegeek at 4:09 AM on April 3 [5 favorites]
I have no idea about the AI and possible grooming, I just want to pause a moment and remember the wonderful nights spent drinking wine and playing scrabble with amazing people. Maybe I should pick up R’s book and read it one more time.
posted by sciencegeek at 4:09 AM on April 3 [5 favorites]
For people wanting more details about the various problems, a doc at nanoscandal.com (It's a GoogleDoc, just easier URL) has many details, including links to sources when available.
To answer the grooming question: it did include leaking into their interactions with minors in ways that the org absolutely should have investigated and acted on, and related to their moderation actions on the site. The most direct bit in the doc is the January-October 2023 section, but there's other relevant discussion.
I'm someone who did NaNoWriMo for many years (the previous decade, reliably), and yeah, some definite good times. A lot of writing communities are looking at different ways to respond this year (as they did last year, with various options - some are doing similar projects but not in November, or other kinds of cohort-writing goals. A lot of them are getting linked/discussed in /r/nanowrimo for anyone looking for options.)
posted by jenettsilver at 9:55 AM on April 3 [2 favorites]
To answer the grooming question: it did include leaking into their interactions with minors in ways that the org absolutely should have investigated and acted on, and related to their moderation actions on the site. The most direct bit in the doc is the January-October 2023 section, but there's other relevant discussion.
I'm someone who did NaNoWriMo for many years (the previous decade, reliably), and yeah, some definite good times. A lot of writing communities are looking at different ways to respond this year (as they did last year, with various options - some are doing similar projects but not in November, or other kinds of cohort-writing goals. A lot of them are getting linked/discussed in /r/nanowrimo for anyone looking for options.)
posted by jenettsilver at 9:55 AM on April 3 [2 favorites]
Oh, no! Now I have NaNoWriMo NoMo FOMO!
Have a Bromo and take a dip in Lake Como.
posted by MrBadExample at 10:04 AM on April 3 [2 favorites]
Have a Bromo and take a dip in Lake Como.
posted by MrBadExample at 10:04 AM on April 3 [2 favorites]
I learned of NaNoWriMo long before I knew about their site. Community gave it the life I knew of it. It looks like that site just helps track your progress in a way to let others -- outside of your community -- know and compare with theirs.
Oh, and rewards? Which, idk, never appealed to me. My reward came in the form of a novel.
I got more out of tracking progress locally.
That AI stuff just provides a lot of ick.
posted by filtergik at 4:16 PM on April 3
Oh, and rewards? Which, idk, never appealed to me. My reward came in the form of a novel.
I got more out of tracking progress locally.
That AI stuff just provides a lot of ick.
posted by filtergik at 4:16 PM on April 3
I did participate in NANOWRIMO 1 time and it was successful.This was over 12 or more years ago. I read stuff about it occasionally - no mo tho -after the bad press I lost respect, but I believe many people worked really hard behind the scenes with nothing but good intentions. AI is a tool that has the power to help many people in so many ways. There just needs to be checklists created for AI usage by organizations. Oh we're back to moderation again
posted by Upon Further Review at 8:22 PM on April 3 [1 favorite]
posted by Upon Further Review at 8:22 PM on April 3 [1 favorite]
This morning I found a NaNo novelist sticker in my house. It made me sad.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:58 AM on April 4 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:58 AM on April 4 [2 favorites]
« Older The art of the protest sign | Work Like the Nineties Newer »
posted by Lemkin at 10:16 AM on April 2 [14 favorites]