Work Like the Nineties
April 2, 2025 10:38 AM Subscribe
Why You Should Work Like It's the Nineties (archive.org link) looks at how work/life boundaries have shifted in the SmartPhone era, and recommends a shift back.
The ninties? Why not the sixties?
My dad always told me about the first time he ever saw a pager. It was in the 60s and one of my grandfather's fishing buddies was a repair tech for some industrial pump manufacturer or whatever. The guy got paid 1/2 time just to carry the pager and be able to report to a job site within like an hour or two of being paged. He did so much fishing.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:47 AM on April 2 [10 favorites]
My dad always told me about the first time he ever saw a pager. It was in the 60s and one of my grandfather's fishing buddies was a repair tech for some industrial pump manufacturer or whatever. The guy got paid 1/2 time just to carry the pager and be able to report to a job site within like an hour or two of being paged. He did so much fishing.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:47 AM on April 2 [10 favorites]
I grew up in the eighties and have been trying to work for my entire life like the "slacker" all the boomers described my generation as being.
posted by egypturnash at 10:48 AM on April 2 [26 favorites]
posted by egypturnash at 10:48 AM on April 2 [26 favorites]
I'd rather not have to go to an office, thanks.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:11 AM on April 2 [7 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:11 AM on April 2 [7 favorites]
After being abused at the previous job, when I started at the company I currently work at 9 years ago I made a point about leaving at the end of the workday and being unavailable. You need me at 6pm? No you don't. Oh you literally dying? Call 911. It's not me.
Since then I've been promoted into roles with more and more responsibility, and I'm still not available. I still don't have work email on my phone, my Teams notifications are shut off outside of work hours, and I don't exist anymore. Everyone on my team knows this and respects it. Sometimes there's off hours calls because we've got global employees, but it's the rarity and not the norm. If my boss texts me outside of work hours, maybe 7 times in my career there, it's always for an emergency and he apologizes as well. Anyone who doesn't respect the work hours? I don't even know, because I don't see any notifications until the next time I sign on.
It's great. It means that even after 9 years I still feel fine about my work, I'm not at risk of burnout, and I get to tell other people of the life changing magic of turning your notifications off.
No one is going to respect boundaries for you, you have to live them first.
posted by phunniemee at 11:14 AM on April 2 [48 favorites]
Since then I've been promoted into roles with more and more responsibility, and I'm still not available. I still don't have work email on my phone, my Teams notifications are shut off outside of work hours, and I don't exist anymore. Everyone on my team knows this and respects it. Sometimes there's off hours calls because we've got global employees, but it's the rarity and not the norm. If my boss texts me outside of work hours, maybe 7 times in my career there, it's always for an emergency and he apologizes as well. Anyone who doesn't respect the work hours? I don't even know, because I don't see any notifications until the next time I sign on.
It's great. It means that even after 9 years I still feel fine about my work, I'm not at risk of burnout, and I get to tell other people of the life changing magic of turning your notifications off.
No one is going to respect boundaries for you, you have to live them first.
posted by phunniemee at 11:14 AM on April 2 [48 favorites]
Sorry boss, I won't be able to get to that report tonight, Duckman is on.
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:14 AM on April 2 [9 favorites]
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:14 AM on April 2 [9 favorites]
but it was this generation that invented the absolute best ever Bartleby-would-be-proud approach: "quiet quitting"
posted by chavenet at 11:16 AM on April 2 [4 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 11:16 AM on April 2 [4 favorites]
The 90's? I work like Keynes 1930's prediction of a 15 hour work week before the end of the 20th century. That is what they fucking took from us, it is our collective duty to take it back
posted by windbox at 11:17 AM on April 2 [24 favorites]
posted by windbox at 11:17 AM on April 2 [24 favorites]
"Nobody will give you freedom. You have to take it." - Meret Oppenheim
posted by Joan Rivers of Babylon at 11:26 AM on April 2 [10 favorites]
posted by Joan Rivers of Babylon at 11:26 AM on April 2 [10 favorites]
One paragraph resonated a lot for me, and I've modified it below, because it just seems so applicable to, you know...everything in American culture.
As much as many Americans complain about their relationship to [fill_in_the_blank] we don’t do much about it when it comes to the types of leaders we elect or the labor protections we demand.posted by jeremias at 11:34 AM on April 2 [19 favorites]
“If Americans were really as upset about [fill_in_the_blank] as we claim, I think our politics would look a lot different,” he said. “People complain about [fill_in_the_blank] all the time,” but many, for instance, “show very little interest in electing pro-union politicians.”
After being abused at the previous job, when I started at the company I currently work at 9 years ago I made a point about leaving at the end of the workday and being unavailable. You need me at 6pm? No you don't. Oh you literally dying? Call 911. It's not me.
Tried this at my last job. My boss didn’t push back—he just bypassed me and dumped the responsibility on someone I managed. Not only did this make me feel like I was just shifting the burden instead of setting boundaries, but it also made the logistics of work a nightmare. Information got scattered, decisions took longer, and the extra steps in communication added even more work to the workflow. My team burned out faster, became harder to manage, and the whole thing was more exhausting than if I had just handled it myself. So, in the end, it was just simpler to be available 24/7 Monday through Sunday, wreck my health, develop an immune condition, burn out completely, and quit after three years.
posted by Omon Ra at 11:50 AM on April 2 [8 favorites]
Tried this at my last job. My boss didn’t push back—he just bypassed me and dumped the responsibility on someone I managed. Not only did this make me feel like I was just shifting the burden instead of setting boundaries, but it also made the logistics of work a nightmare. Information got scattered, decisions took longer, and the extra steps in communication added even more work to the workflow. My team burned out faster, became harder to manage, and the whole thing was more exhausting than if I had just handled it myself. So, in the end, it was just simpler to be available 24/7 Monday through Sunday, wreck my health, develop an immune condition, burn out completely, and quit after three years.
posted by Omon Ra at 11:50 AM on April 2 [8 favorites]
In the 90s I did not have kids and was working in a non-profit and often left work at 7 or 8 at night. Then I transitioned to a dot com where they had a nap room for the times we were in what would now be called crunch periods. I mean, I appreciate the intent of the piece but boundaries have always been needed for my entire career.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:50 AM on April 2 [5 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 11:50 AM on April 2 [5 favorites]
@phunnieme basically describes my attitude. I think there are some people who work for my employer in more outside-facing roles who don't have that kind of inviolable private life. And I have occasionally needed to show up for a crunch-time do-what-it-takes effort to undo somebody's fuckup (sometimes even my fuckups).
I do not have Outlook on my phone. I do not have Teams on my phone. In fact, our IT people decided to basically get rid of supporting phone apps for people who don't have corporate-issue iPhones, which is not most of us.
There are some workplaces that are not smartphone-driven always-on hellholes, I'm saying. Even ones that sell and support software in the modern world.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 11:52 AM on April 2 [5 favorites]
I do not have Outlook on my phone. I do not have Teams on my phone. In fact, our IT people decided to basically get rid of supporting phone apps for people who don't have corporate-issue iPhones, which is not most of us.
There are some workplaces that are not smartphone-driven always-on hellholes, I'm saying. Even ones that sell and support software in the modern world.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 11:52 AM on April 2 [5 favorites]
So, I think the important thing here is that push notifications were an aughts invention. Before then in the '90s, even among those with modems, you would generally need to call and ring someone's phone in a deliberate fashion.
We can all make fun of Blackberry at this point, but they were the first to successfully send push email messages to a phone you might use for other things. In 2003, very few of us used SMS for general messaging, although that was technically possible. It was one thing for doctors or even IT engineers to have a pager, but those would be provided by the workplace at the workplace's expense, and it would generally be accepted that they would be compensated in some way for their on-call pager duties. This has fallen apart in the past 20 years.
Now, quite a lot of us feel obligated to respond to SMS, iMessage or Slack with a suitable amount of urgency even far outside business hours. It is not right.
I left my last job when they asked me to leave notifications audible until 11pm at night each night one out of three weeks. No additional compensation. I had explicitally stated when I was hired that I would not be taking a late-night on-call position, but would be willing to do after-hours work where appropriate or in the event of emergency. They were basically, "nope, we're just going to try to impose this on you." As you might expect, I quit. (This was not an attempt to force me out, the new job description posted on various job sites listed the new requirements.)
I can't imagine it will be more than around 20 more years until we all understand the attrition of our mental health having notifications that are below the level of "there is literally a fire and we need this information" or "you are one of two people with a key that can help" come through during the night. The generations after GenX *will* understand the mistake of having anything less than the most severe notifications after work hours, but it may take several generations of people experiencing this nonsense until everyone understands it is not sustainable or healthy.
I've always been a "I'll check my email when it's convenient and if there's a genuine fire call or text me" team player, but we are so horrifically far off of that course at this point as "knowledge workers" with total nonsense notifications that interrupt everyone's evenings and where life becomes constant work that it's become bizarre and terrible.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 12:03 PM on April 2 [4 favorites]
We can all make fun of Blackberry at this point, but they were the first to successfully send push email messages to a phone you might use for other things. In 2003, very few of us used SMS for general messaging, although that was technically possible. It was one thing for doctors or even IT engineers to have a pager, but those would be provided by the workplace at the workplace's expense, and it would generally be accepted that they would be compensated in some way for their on-call pager duties. This has fallen apart in the past 20 years.
Now, quite a lot of us feel obligated to respond to SMS, iMessage or Slack with a suitable amount of urgency even far outside business hours. It is not right.
I left my last job when they asked me to leave notifications audible until 11pm at night each night one out of three weeks. No additional compensation. I had explicitally stated when I was hired that I would not be taking a late-night on-call position, but would be willing to do after-hours work where appropriate or in the event of emergency. They were basically, "nope, we're just going to try to impose this on you." As you might expect, I quit. (This was not an attempt to force me out, the new job description posted on various job sites listed the new requirements.)
I can't imagine it will be more than around 20 more years until we all understand the attrition of our mental health having notifications that are below the level of "there is literally a fire and we need this information" or "you are one of two people with a key that can help" come through during the night. The generations after GenX *will* understand the mistake of having anything less than the most severe notifications after work hours, but it may take several generations of people experiencing this nonsense until everyone understands it is not sustainable or healthy.
I've always been a "I'll check my email when it's convenient and if there's a genuine fire call or text me" team player, but we are so horrifically far off of that course at this point as "knowledge workers" with total nonsense notifications that interrupt everyone's evenings and where life becomes constant work that it's become bizarre and terrible.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 12:03 PM on April 2 [4 favorites]
I say people should work like the thirties!
My father worked for the British Treasury for a year in the late 1930s before he went to university. The hours were ten till four, with an hour for lunch — the only downside was that it was 5 1/2 days as he had to go in on Saturday mornings. 28 hours a week seems about right to me.
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 12:27 PM on April 2 [15 favorites]
My father worked for the British Treasury for a year in the late 1930s before he went to university. The hours were ten till four, with an hour for lunch — the only downside was that it was 5 1/2 days as he had to go in on Saturday mornings. 28 hours a week seems about right to me.
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 12:27 PM on April 2 [15 favorites]
The reason why I am unemployed now is because I quit my most recent job. And the reason I quit my most recent job is because my boss expected me to be on-call at all times, even on the weekends, and the stress made me lose 20 pounds in only two months. (Granted, I needed to lose 20 pounds, but my doctor said "this wasn't quite what I had in mind.")
The day before I quit, I still wavered about whether I should leap now or I should stick it out and line up another job first - but when I mentioned that to my roommate, he stared at me a moment and then asked, "how many more pounds do you think you can afford to lose?"
This kind of constant eye-on-the-job is not healthy.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:30 PM on April 2 [6 favorites]
The day before I quit, I still wavered about whether I should leap now or I should stick it out and line up another job first - but when I mentioned that to my roommate, he stared at me a moment and then asked, "how many more pounds do you think you can afford to lose?"
This kind of constant eye-on-the-job is not healthy.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:30 PM on April 2 [6 favorites]
In the 90s, my wage was exactly the same and local homes were 1/7th the price.
posted by brachiopod at 12:34 PM on April 2 [23 favorites]
posted by brachiopod at 12:34 PM on April 2 [23 favorites]
Yep, I've been doing what phunnieme describes since forever. That said, I've been lucky to have jobs where that's more or less accepted/expected. Every once in a while someone from work will ask me "Hey, do you have (corporate software X) installed on your phone?" My answer is always the same: "No and I never will. IT/corporate security is not getting their grubby little hands on MY phone and data. I don't do personal stuff on my work-provided computer; if the company wants me to install X they can damn well give me a work phone." (Of course, even then I'd only use it during work hours and it'd otherwise be off entirely.)
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:41 PM on April 2 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:41 PM on April 2 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I'm always shocked at my friends who let their work use their personal phones as venues for work-related crap. I'm not against odd-hours availability, but only if compensated outside "regular" pay (or your "regular pay" is inflated to compensate)...and not on my personal device. Work does not get to even have my cell number, sorry. If they somehow get hold of it, they're getting blocked. If you need me to be cell-available, provide me with a device and a separate number.
I paid a (what I consider to be a) stupid amount of money for the phone and pay a stupid amount to keep it online, and my own time is mine. I don't care if my boss has no boundaries on their own life, they don't get to export that to my life.
posted by maxwelton at 1:04 PM on April 2 [1 favorite]
I paid a (what I consider to be a) stupid amount of money for the phone and pay a stupid amount to keep it online, and my own time is mine. I don't care if my boss has no boundaries on their own life, they don't get to export that to my life.
posted by maxwelton at 1:04 PM on April 2 [1 favorite]
Also back in my 20's when I was working a lot off hours and sending emails from my phone at 8:45pm it was because I always felt like I was deep in some hole at work, coming off of some kind of mistake, and had to "prove" my allegiance to the job and to my manager that I did, in fact take it seriously. "Look how willing I am to keep things moving forward during off hours! Look how much I *care*!"
What I've since learned over the years watching really hard-working people get put on performance reviews for petty reasons, fired, laid off because the spreadsheet did not justify their role that year, is that none of it fucking matters. I've seen people win silly Hustler Of The Year superlative awards, and still get fired. They don't care so why should I?
posted by windbox at 1:13 PM on April 2 [10 favorites]
What I've since learned over the years watching really hard-working people get put on performance reviews for petty reasons, fired, laid off because the spreadsheet did not justify their role that year, is that none of it fucking matters. I've seen people win silly Hustler Of The Year superlative awards, and still get fired. They don't care so why should I?
posted by windbox at 1:13 PM on April 2 [10 favorites]
Recent updates at work are forcing people who want to retain access to internal tools to get a company-owned phone instead of having access on their personal devices, so I did that even though I mostly resent having to keep track of two devices. If I'm forced by work to keep work and home life separate, I decided what I should do at the end of the day is turn off my work phone. I'm an hourly contractor, and billing overtime hours is something I'm not meant to do unless it can't be helped.
I still haven't bothered to voluntarily remove my access on my personal, which will be done for me in May if I don't do it sooner, and so I saw I got a few requests from people after hours last night. But no, I didn't see them because my work phone was off, sorry guys.
posted by emelenjr at 1:16 PM on April 2
I still haven't bothered to voluntarily remove my access on my personal, which will be done for me in May if I don't do it sooner, and so I saw I got a few requests from people after hours last night. But no, I didn't see them because my work phone was off, sorry guys.
posted by emelenjr at 1:16 PM on April 2
I get access codes texted to my personal phone, which I resent but there isn't a reasonable way around it.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:43 PM on April 2 [2 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:43 PM on April 2 [2 favorites]
It s not "quiet quitting", ugh, gross. What a gross phrase for "I only work during work hours"
I enjoy working two days from home, and enjoy being able to turn workbrain off on the other three days. Flex is best.
Also all of our staff have offices with doors that close. So, it s a good office to have.
posted by eustatic at 2:01 PM on April 2
I enjoy working two days from home, and enjoy being able to turn workbrain off on the other three days. Flex is best.
Also all of our staff have offices with doors that close. So, it s a good office to have.
posted by eustatic at 2:01 PM on April 2
In the 90s I was basically working a thirteen hour day because I was a classroom teacher, and the same in the 80s, the oughts and the teen, until I retired. It was the only way I could keep on top of the job. My spouse kept saying, “Surely this is going to get easier some time?” Emails always went unanswered by everyone because we were all buried (I was department chair for a while and in charge of new-faculty mentoring for the school so I know whereof I speak. Email didn’t change the dynamic at all.having homework submitted on Google Docs didn’t change it at all. Well, there was a period where they tried to force us to do our curriculum mapping online but they gave up because we just did not have time and no one actually had time to read the maps either.
I did work on an office job before I taught, and I can see how the slow-motion takeover would happen there.
posted by Peach at 2:12 PM on April 2 [3 favorites]
I did work on an office job before I taught, and I can see how the slow-motion takeover would happen there.
posted by Peach at 2:12 PM on April 2 [3 favorites]
It s not "quiet quitting", ugh, gross.
Yeah, that name was coined by suits who object to the (perfectly legal and reasonable) behavior. A more accurate name is "refusing to be unfairly exploited".
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:40 PM on April 2 [6 favorites]
Yeah, that name was coined by suits who object to the (perfectly legal and reasonable) behavior. A more accurate name is "refusing to be unfairly exploited".
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:40 PM on April 2 [6 favorites]
"work to rule" is always good
posted by egypturnash at 2:47 PM on April 2 [6 favorites]
posted by egypturnash at 2:47 PM on April 2 [6 favorites]
I started working professionally in the mid-90s so this resonated. I do look back longingly on the early days of my career when I would leave work at the end of the day and there was no expectation I would be reachable until I came back in the following morning.
That’s not to say there aren’t some benefits to how we work today. For one, in those early years I was dealing with a commute, while I have now been working from home for over a decade and a half. Still, the concept that we are always available and never truly “off” work, even after hours or when on vacation or whatever is a persistent annoyance. I work in sales, so it isn’t as easy to just opt-out, at least not in a way that doesn’t have consequences. My current annoyance are the folks who seem to take “Out of Office” messages as a suggestion rather than a cue to contact someone else.
posted by The Gooch at 2:50 PM on April 2 [1 favorite]
That’s not to say there aren’t some benefits to how we work today. For one, in those early years I was dealing with a commute, while I have now been working from home for over a decade and a half. Still, the concept that we are always available and never truly “off” work, even after hours or when on vacation or whatever is a persistent annoyance. I work in sales, so it isn’t as easy to just opt-out, at least not in a way that doesn’t have consequences. My current annoyance are the folks who seem to take “Out of Office” messages as a suggestion rather than a cue to contact someone else.
posted by The Gooch at 2:50 PM on April 2 [1 favorite]
In the 90’s I worked a 40 hour week, leaving ample time to attend warehouse parties, often conveniently located across the street from the warehouse where I lived. 🤔
I’d be ok with that again.
posted by funkaspuck at 3:29 PM on April 2 [3 favorites]
I’d be ok with that again.
posted by funkaspuck at 3:29 PM on April 2 [3 favorites]
Being in IT, I didn't do a good job of this.
In the early 90s there were backups that needed to be run, which often didn't work without supervision.
Mid 90s, doing development, I was tasked with writing programs that would convert existing COBOL based records, into the new fancy SQL/Delphi format they had chosen. Law firm accounting software. And when you are trying to convert several million existing records... Spent a week in Baltimore trying to do this. And fixing the memory leak that showed up, (windows, not my fault), and it had to be run at night when new data wasn't coming in...
And then my last job, where I was the only developer, and I had to fix the software, NOW, because the hospital couldn't actually do anything until I fixed it. Generally wasn't our software, but another company that was doing the data interfacing. Recall one time, my boss was on the east coast, (three hour time difference) and shit was not working. When I ran it, it worked fine. But I was running it inside Delphi, and the problem only showed up when running the compiled EXE. Once we figured that out, a bit of googling showed me what the problem was. Think I left the office at about 4 AM. Felt bad for the boss, who was up until 7 AM.
But once our software was solid, stopped doing that stuff. Good memories though. Except for spending a week in downtown Baltimore. Scary area to be going back to the hotel at 3 AM.
posted by Windopaene at 3:30 PM on April 2
In the early 90s there were backups that needed to be run, which often didn't work without supervision.
Mid 90s, doing development, I was tasked with writing programs that would convert existing COBOL based records, into the new fancy SQL/Delphi format they had chosen. Law firm accounting software. And when you are trying to convert several million existing records... Spent a week in Baltimore trying to do this. And fixing the memory leak that showed up, (windows, not my fault), and it had to be run at night when new data wasn't coming in...
And then my last job, where I was the only developer, and I had to fix the software, NOW, because the hospital couldn't actually do anything until I fixed it. Generally wasn't our software, but another company that was doing the data interfacing. Recall one time, my boss was on the east coast, (three hour time difference) and shit was not working. When I ran it, it worked fine. But I was running it inside Delphi, and the problem only showed up when running the compiled EXE. Once we figured that out, a bit of googling showed me what the problem was. Think I left the office at about 4 AM. Felt bad for the boss, who was up until 7 AM.
But once our software was solid, stopped doing that stuff. Good memories though. Except for spending a week in downtown Baltimore. Scary area to be going back to the hotel at 3 AM.
posted by Windopaene at 3:30 PM on April 2
And if anyone knows of a smaller town IL hospital system, that had maybe 5 locations at one time, that has now been probably been bought out by a larger system, let me know. Near Champaign I think? Auto Parts warehouse place...
posted by Windopaene at 5:28 PM on April 2
posted by Windopaene at 5:28 PM on April 2
Things are SO much better in the 90s for people with serious jobs.
No work from home, which meant five days a week in the office on slow days and 6-7 days a week in the office when things were busy. '
Suits and ties. Now, I like suits and ties, but not 8 am to 8 pm (the hour when you could undue the knot of your tie) Monday to Friday.
Having to research and provide every hotel and relative's house's address for couriers, phone number and fax number for every place you would be on vacation.
Waiting hours for couriers and faxes to arrive. Staying at home or in the hotel room when a particularly urgent call or document was likely to come.
Endless, obsessive checking of voice mail and messages with the operators or your secretary.
posted by MattD at 7:02 PM on April 2 [1 favorite]
No work from home, which meant five days a week in the office on slow days and 6-7 days a week in the office when things were busy. '
Suits and ties. Now, I like suits and ties, but not 8 am to 8 pm (the hour when you could undue the knot of your tie) Monday to Friday.
Having to research and provide every hotel and relative's house's address for couriers, phone number and fax number for every place you would be on vacation.
Waiting hours for couriers and faxes to arrive. Staying at home or in the hotel room when a particularly urgent call or document was likely to come.
Endless, obsessive checking of voice mail and messages with the operators or your secretary.
posted by MattD at 7:02 PM on April 2 [1 favorite]
Shit, y'all. The 90s? I want to work like the 1950s. A land-line telephone, the only thing electronic, on your desk. Three-martini lunches, and that time paid for. 9 to 5, right? Not 8 to 5. I remember hearing in the 1980s that they still worked 9 to 5, office jobs in Manhattan (like Billy Wilder illustrated in 'The Apartment') - that can't be true anymore.
posted by Rash at 7:49 PM on April 2 [4 favorites]
posted by Rash at 7:49 PM on April 2 [4 favorites]
The way things are going, I'll be working in my 90s!
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 9:06 PM on April 2 [4 favorites]
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 9:06 PM on April 2 [4 favorites]
What explains the work-centric US culture of long hours? Is it because the US is a relatively new country and the culture of having to make your fortune still lingers? Or something to do with the fact that many emigrated to the US on the basis of wanting a better life, and so tended to be strivers? It doesn't seem like the culture will change by itself, legislation is surely needed and also not very likely. I am thankful I've never had a job where I had to be on call outside work hours. For me having to work at all is something I've never really come to terms with. As Philip Larkin said
"Why should I let the toad work
Squat on my life?"
I know many people find meaning through work and also some people would be bored if they didn't work. I don't know if I'm lucky or deeply unlucky but these attitudes are baffling to me.
posted by mokey at 12:20 AM on April 3
"Why should I let the toad work
Squat on my life?"
I know many people find meaning through work and also some people would be bored if they didn't work. I don't know if I'm lucky or deeply unlucky but these attitudes are baffling to me.
posted by mokey at 12:20 AM on April 3
What explains the work-centric US culture of long hours?
the prosperity gospel
posted by phunniemee at 5:55 AM on April 3 [5 favorites]
the prosperity gospel
posted by phunniemee at 5:55 AM on April 3 [5 favorites]
mokey: "What explains the work-centric US culture of long hours?"
Any combination of: Puritan/Protestant work ethic, the "American Dream," "keeping up with the Joneses," and the fact that our health insurance is largely tied to our jobs.
posted by cooker girl at 7:03 AM on April 3 [6 favorites]
Any combination of: Puritan/Protestant work ethic, the "American Dream," "keeping up with the Joneses," and the fact that our health insurance is largely tied to our jobs.
posted by cooker girl at 7:03 AM on April 3 [6 favorites]
What explains the work-centric US culture of long hours?
Total lack of a social safety net. You do what your boss tells you or they will ruin, literally, forever, your entire life.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:53 AM on April 3 [8 favorites]
Total lack of a social safety net. You do what your boss tells you or they will ruin, literally, forever, your entire life.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:53 AM on April 3 [8 favorites]
I vividly remember the first time I saw a Blackberry in the wild. I took an investment banking client to Lords and I was horrified when she started poking this thing instead of watching the cricket. I asked her what she was doing - "checking my emails", she said. "Oh" I said. I literally didn't understand why she would want to do this. I think she left before tea. We didn't win any more business. Things in general have pretty much gone downhill since
posted by el_presidente at 8:01 AM on April 3 [1 favorite]
posted by el_presidente at 8:01 AM on April 3 [1 favorite]
A much more effective solution to this problem, is to form a union, and bargain these policies into a legally binding union contract. Anything else and you are just at the whims of some boss.
posted by stilgar at 9:43 AM on April 3 [4 favorites]
posted by stilgar at 9:43 AM on April 3 [4 favorites]
health insurance: "anyone who says their pets are their kids would never keep a shitty job for fifteen years so their dog could get health care." - some comic I forget who
posted by j_curiouser at 1:21 PM on April 3
posted by j_curiouser at 1:21 PM on April 3
I would (but for my cats). If that was literally the only way I could get them care.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:27 PM on April 3 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:27 PM on April 3 [1 favorite]
health insurance: "anyone who says their pets are their kids would never keep a shitty job for fifteen years so their dog could get health care." - some comic I forget who
what? I absolutely would have if my job had covered it. My current job actually does, but too late for my poor late kitty.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:05 PM on April 4
what? I absolutely would have if my job had covered it. My current job actually does, but too late for my poor late kitty.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:05 PM on April 4
What explains the work-centric US culture of long hours?
Rooting the wealth of your nation in the slave trade, and then the expansion of slavery / internal slave trade of 1830 has a lot of weird outcomes for setting labor expectations that management has.
I suppose the Gold rush of California was the other immense shot of wealth for the United States, but I know that many of the "great works" in New York, DC, and other Southern cities, and even great earth works on the Mississippi River post 1927 were accomplished with coerced labor.
That, and the fact that we've spent a lot of time avoiding talking about this fact, means that there is a hole in our heads when planners are planning large infrastructure projects, and are setting goals based on what their institutions accomplished in the past.
In my mind, it's intimately related to "why is the US so bad at spending money on long term infrastructure"?
Most of the infrastructure around me in New Orleans was constructed with labor that could not limit working hours; we are just soaking in that reality every day.
posted by eustatic at 9:43 AM on April 5 [1 favorite]
Rooting the wealth of your nation in the slave trade, and then the expansion of slavery / internal slave trade of 1830 has a lot of weird outcomes for setting labor expectations that management has.
I suppose the Gold rush of California was the other immense shot of wealth for the United States, but I know that many of the "great works" in New York, DC, and other Southern cities, and even great earth works on the Mississippi River post 1927 were accomplished with coerced labor.
That, and the fact that we've spent a lot of time avoiding talking about this fact, means that there is a hole in our heads when planners are planning large infrastructure projects, and are setting goals based on what their institutions accomplished in the past.
In my mind, it's intimately related to "why is the US so bad at spending money on long term infrastructure"?
Most of the infrastructure around me in New Orleans was constructed with labor that could not limit working hours; we are just soaking in that reality every day.
posted by eustatic at 9:43 AM on April 5 [1 favorite]
The way things are going, I'll be working in my 90s!
I've long said, "Retirement is just another one of the lies Boomers told us Gen-Xers"
posted by mikelieman at 3:10 AM on April 6
I've long said, "Retirement is just another one of the lies Boomers told us Gen-Xers"
posted by mikelieman at 3:10 AM on April 6
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posted by supermedusa at 10:41 AM on April 2 [22 favorites]