Holy Heavy METAfilter poisoning Batman!
June 4, 2003 11:13 PM Subscribe
Not as easy to understand as those self-install satellite dishes The video the army remembered to forget? Just like he Treasury Department's amnesia regarding Hemp for Victory.
Fascinating link, KidnapCounty. Thanks.
the vast majority of servicemen and women in the U.S. military, and likely in the armed forces of other countries which are developing or have obtained depleted uranium munitions, are unaware of the use and dangers of depleted uranium munitions
That may not be true, according to this article.
"After we shoot something with DU, we're not supposed to go around it, due to the fact that it could cause cancer," says a sergeant in Baghdad from New York, assigned to a Bradley, who asked not to be further identified.
"We don't know the effects of what it could do," says the sergeant. "If one of our vehicles burnt with a DU round inside, or an ammo truck, we wouldn't go near it, even if it had important documents inside. We play it safe."
posted by homunculus at 11:55 PM on June 4, 2003
the vast majority of servicemen and women in the U.S. military, and likely in the armed forces of other countries which are developing or have obtained depleted uranium munitions, are unaware of the use and dangers of depleted uranium munitions
That may not be true, according to this article.
"After we shoot something with DU, we're not supposed to go around it, due to the fact that it could cause cancer," says a sergeant in Baghdad from New York, assigned to a Bradley, who asked not to be further identified.
"We don't know the effects of what it could do," says the sergeant. "If one of our vehicles burnt with a DU round inside, or an ammo truck, we wouldn't go near it, even if it had important documents inside. We play it safe."
posted by homunculus at 11:55 PM on June 4, 2003
Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. It's not a very good movie, and having your sergeant yell at you to stay the fuck away from busted and blowed-up stuff because it's dangerous seems like a perfectly good alternative training tactic.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:36 AM on June 5, 2003
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:36 AM on June 5, 2003
Uncle Sam had to haul all his DU over to Korea after the big stink raised in Japan over carelessly-disposed ammo a few years ago. There is a notice still linked on the front page of the U.S. Embassy in Japan. U.N. doctors say it will take at least 10-15 to see leukemic effects if DU ammo is hazardous, as protesters claim.
posted by planetkyoto at 1:36 AM on June 5, 2003
posted by planetkyoto at 1:36 AM on June 5, 2003
"If one of our vehicles burnt with a DU round inside, or an ammo truck, we wouldn't go near it, even if it had important documents inside."
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't go near a burning ammo truck, DU or no DU.
posted by spazzm at 2:21 AM on June 5, 2003
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't go near a burning ammo truck, DU or no DU.
posted by spazzm at 2:21 AM on June 5, 2003
Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
I think it is
At the moment, the amount of DU used in Iraq is an unknown quantity. Estimates range from the minimum of 75 tons - which the Pentagon told the Monitor earlier this month - to as high as 2,000 tons. The 75 tons that the Pentagon described to the Monitor were DU rounds that were only used in A-10 Warthog aircraft. And while the A-10s were responsible for 80 percent of the DU fired in the 1991 Gulf War, in the latest war several other platforms - including M1A1 Abrams tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles - used DU rounds.
This is hardly like Hemp for Victory. It is more like the getting-tiring-by-the-minute "do as I say, not as I do"
posted by magullo at 3:47 AM on June 5, 2003
I think it is
At the moment, the amount of DU used in Iraq is an unknown quantity. Estimates range from the minimum of 75 tons - which the Pentagon told the Monitor earlier this month - to as high as 2,000 tons. The 75 tons that the Pentagon described to the Monitor were DU rounds that were only used in A-10 Warthog aircraft. And while the A-10s were responsible for 80 percent of the DU fired in the 1991 Gulf War, in the latest war several other platforms - including M1A1 Abrams tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles - used DU rounds.
This is hardly like Hemp for Victory. It is more like the getting-tiring-by-the-minute "do as I say, not as I do"
posted by magullo at 3:47 AM on June 5, 2003
Don't use DU again Dr. Doug Rokke, listed as the author of the video, writes more passionately about the problems caused by the use of DU. No wonder the video has had limited viewership.
posted by newlydead at 5:58 AM on June 5, 2003
posted by newlydead at 5:58 AM on June 5, 2003
More crap left behind.
It is important to remember that all this is done for the benefit of the local folks.
posted by magullo at 7:03 AM on June 5, 2003
It is important to remember that all this is done for the benefit of the local folks.
posted by magullo at 7:03 AM on June 5, 2003
Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
I think it is
But the point of the FPP wasn't that DU is dangerous, it was that there was this training film that's sitting on shelves not getting watched. *That* is no big deal.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:56 AM on June 5, 2003
I think it is
But the point of the FPP wasn't that DU is dangerous, it was that there was this training film that's sitting on shelves not getting watched. *That* is no big deal.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:56 AM on June 5, 2003
Actually it IS a big deal. What if that Sergeant isn't around for some reason. I'm an 11-year veteran. "Sarge" isn't always around, and don't get me started on the officer corps.
posted by KidnapCounty at 2:53 PM on June 5, 2003
posted by KidnapCounty at 2:53 PM on June 5, 2003
oh . . . not to mention: what happens to the innocents who have to live in this filth when it's all over . . . if it ever ends?
posted by KidnapCounty at 2:55 PM on June 5, 2003
posted by KidnapCounty at 2:55 PM on June 5, 2003
It is important to remember that all this is done for the benefit of the local folks.
Though they may not realize it yet, they are very much so, much more liberated. On that we all must agree. Cancer is apparently a very liberating disease. Maybe the soldiers don't even realize it yet either. But god, at least using DU feels quite liberating at the time it's squeezed off.
posted by crasspastor at 3:18 PM on June 5, 2003
Though they may not realize it yet, they are very much so, much more liberated. On that we all must agree. Cancer is apparently a very liberating disease. Maybe the soldiers don't even realize it yet either. But god, at least using DU feels quite liberating at the time it's squeezed off.
posted by crasspastor at 3:18 PM on June 5, 2003
Actually it IS a big deal. What if that Sergeant isn't around for some reason. I'm an 11-year veteran. "Sarge" isn't always around, and don't get me started on the officer corps.
I'd guessed that "Don't fuck around with burned-out tanks" or "Don't fuck around with ammo, spent or otherwise" were not terribly difficult messages to disseminate through the ranks. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
Certainly I don't think you need to be told that uranium is mined in New Mexico or what fraction of uranium U-234 is in order to comprehend the complex messages "Don't fuck with burned-out tanks" or "Ammo is dangerous."
oh . . . not to mention: what happens to the innocents who have to live in this filth when it's all over . . . if it ever ends?
Things happen that don't have any damn thing to do with whether that video is shown to troops or not.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:20 PM on June 5, 2003
I'd guessed that "Don't fuck around with burned-out tanks" or "Don't fuck around with ammo, spent or otherwise" were not terribly difficult messages to disseminate through the ranks. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
Certainly I don't think you need to be told that uranium is mined in New Mexico or what fraction of uranium U-234 is in order to comprehend the complex messages "Don't fuck with burned-out tanks" or "Ammo is dangerous."
oh . . . not to mention: what happens to the innocents who have to live in this filth when it's all over . . . if it ever ends?
Things happen that don't have any damn thing to do with whether that video is shown to troops or not.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:20 PM on June 5, 2003
But god, at least using DU feels quite liberating at the time it's squeezed off.
IANAphysicist, but they probably would have been able to use other penetrators (if they had 'em) against the sorts of mostly old, mostly Soviet equipment they were shooting at; it's not like they were trying to take out modern Brit/US tanks with composite armor.
Would you really be happy if they'd said "Fine!" and switched to tungsten-alloy penetrators? Or is your real complaint something other than the use of DU slugs? If your real complaint is something else, why not actually, you know, make it?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:25 PM on June 5, 2003
IANAphysicist, but they probably would have been able to use other penetrators (if they had 'em) against the sorts of mostly old, mostly Soviet equipment they were shooting at; it's not like they were trying to take out modern Brit/US tanks with composite armor.
Would you really be happy if they'd said "Fine!" and switched to tungsten-alloy penetrators? Or is your real complaint something other than the use of DU slugs? If your real complaint is something else, why not actually, you know, make it?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:25 PM on June 5, 2003
But you have to admit ROU_Xenophobe, cancer is liberating right? You do agree on that point don't you?
posted by crasspastor at 2:34 AM on June 6, 2003
posted by crasspastor at 2:34 AM on June 6, 2003
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posted by KidnapCounty at 11:18 PM on June 4, 2003