Man Rapes Infant Daughter
October 29, 2003 5:32 PM Subscribe
Man Pleads Guilty to Raping his own 2 month old Daughter
But wait, that's just the beginning. This guy's daddy heads the state Corrections Department and part of his plea is to reduce the amount of time he's going to spend in jail for this most heinous act.
This guy is facing, if the judge agrees to the plea, only 6 months in jail! The standard sentence for first-degree child rape is seven to 10 years in prison.
He's admitted to molesting a 9 year old in Maine before and has also been convicted of orchestrating an armed robbery.
How in the heck he's going to get ANY leniency is beyond me.
But wait, that's just the beginning. This guy's daddy heads the state Corrections Department and part of his plea is to reduce the amount of time he's going to spend in jail for this most heinous act.
This guy is facing, if the judge agrees to the plea, only 6 months in jail! The standard sentence for first-degree child rape is seven to 10 years in prison.
He's admitted to molesting a 9 year old in Maine before and has also been convicted of orchestrating an armed robbery.
How in the heck he's going to get ANY leniency is beyond me.
Six months in jail for raping his baby daughter seems fair to me. Providing a lethal injection awaits him at the end of that six months.
His father was convicted of robbery and went on to head the state Corrections Department? WTF?
posted by dg at 5:46 PM on October 29, 2003
His father was convicted of robbery and went on to head the state Corrections Department? WTF?
posted by dg at 5:46 PM on October 29, 2003
You think he'll actually survive more than a month in jail?
posted by angry modem at 5:52 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by angry modem at 5:52 PM on October 29, 2003
It's a sick, sad world (sometimes). They should really lock this guy up forever.
posted by amberglow at 5:52 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by amberglow at 5:52 PM on October 29, 2003
Ugh. There so much wrong with this scenario I don't even know where to start.
posted by Samsonov14 at 5:52 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by Samsonov14 at 5:52 PM on October 29, 2003
I don't think it was his father that was convicted of robbery- it was him.
posted by dness2 at 5:53 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by dness2 at 5:53 PM on October 29, 2003
WhatTheHellFilter.
posted by sacre_bleu at 5:55 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by sacre_bleu at 5:55 PM on October 29, 2003
Welcome to the police state. Those that desire to control and lead the most are often the least qualified to do so. This is - in my opinion - an example of systemic abuse in a culture of abuse and violence. Control is an illusion...
posted by loquacious at 5:59 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by loquacious at 5:59 PM on October 29, 2003
i can't think of a worse thing to be in prison than the child molesting son of the cheif screw.
posted by quonsar at 6:06 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by quonsar at 6:06 PM on October 29, 2003
As much as six months is a pretty silly sentence, compared to other crimes, there's no way that the prison system is going to do this man any good. A six month stay in a psych institution would be far more likely to have lasting effects.
posted by Jairus at 6:14 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by Jairus at 6:14 PM on October 29, 2003
I don't think it was his father that was convicted of robbery- it was him.
Sorry, my mistake.
posted by dg at 6:18 PM on October 29, 2003
Sorry, my mistake.
posted by dg at 6:18 PM on October 29, 2003
Enrique Cerna talks with Joseph Lehman, Secretary of Washington state's Department of Corrections about the findings of a statewide poll on parole. The poll was commissioned by KCTS Connects, The Tacoma News Tribune and KPLU Public Radio with funding from the Pew Center for Civic Journalism. It is a part of a project titled A Duty to Protect in which the three media outlets have joined together to examine issues related to parole in Washington state.
'Reverend Joe' Lehman runs corrections with strong beliefs... he says there is one prayer in particular from it that he recites every morning: Psalm 51 "Give me the joy again of your help Lord."
posted by stonerose at 6:24 PM on October 29, 2003
'Reverend Joe' Lehman runs corrections with strong beliefs... he says there is one prayer in particular from it that he recites every morning: Psalm 51 "Give me the joy again of your help Lord."
posted by stonerose at 6:24 PM on October 29, 2003
I'm with quonsar: this guy molests a 9 year old, rapes a 2 month old, and he's the son of the head of state for the Corrections Department? He'll be lucky to survive a week.
posted by mkn at 6:36 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by mkn at 6:36 PM on October 29, 2003
And some say the system ain't broke. HA!
As for him not lasting a month in jail, I think the fact daddy's in charge will earn him super-secret secured custody. This is fuct beyond belief. Something needs to be done. I suggest we all start by maybe emailing any Washington state legislator in absolute protest of any lieniency for this pondscum. I don't know exactly what they can do, but I'm open to any other suggestions. This shouldn't be allowed to happen. Period.
posted by LouReedsSon at 6:56 PM on October 29, 2003
As for him not lasting a month in jail, I think the fact daddy's in charge will earn him super-secret secured custody. This is fuct beyond belief. Something needs to be done. I suggest we all start by maybe emailing any Washington state legislator in absolute protest of any lieniency for this pondscum. I don't know exactly what they can do, but I'm open to any other suggestions. This shouldn't be allowed to happen. Period.
posted by LouReedsSon at 6:56 PM on October 29, 2003
Sorry to sound like a squishy liberal here, but...whassup with all this vigilante justice shit? Like, "heh heh...they'll kill the bastard in prison!"
Justice, mercy, rehabilitation...or...let's rejoice at the motherfucker's humiliating death!
posted by kozad at 6:56 PM on October 29, 2003
Justice, mercy, rehabilitation...or...let's rejoice at the motherfucker's humiliating death!
posted by kozad at 6:56 PM on October 29, 2003
LouReedsSon, I was thinking of something along those lines. Part of the reason I posted the story (aside from the downright wrongness of it) was to shine some light on it and hope that the blogging world can effect this freaking bastard's permanent incarceration and, hopefully, death by bleeding out on the shower room floor.
But not until after he's been on the receiving end of a few prison rapes first.
Mercy?
Mercy should be saved for people that deserve it. Dragging this scumbag behind a car until he's erased into a long red streak in the road is too good for him.
posted by fenriq at 7:08 PM on October 29, 2003
But not until after he's been on the receiving end of a few prison rapes first.
Mercy?
Mercy should be saved for people that deserve it. Dragging this scumbag behind a car until he's erased into a long red streak in the road is too good for him.
posted by fenriq at 7:08 PM on October 29, 2003
Here is the list of email addresses I found.
I hope enough of you are as outraged as I am to take a minute and write these people with your thoughts.
posted by LouReedsSon at 7:10 PM on October 29, 2003
I hope enough of you are as outraged as I am to take a minute and write these people with your thoughts.
posted by LouReedsSon at 7:10 PM on October 29, 2003
I dunno. If I hear that someone pled down to 6 months for this, my first reaction is that the prosecution must have had a very weak case. If they'd had a strong case, they'd've pushed it. At a guess, maybe there's no physical evidence that the event took place.
His fiancee says she saw him do it, which is just he said / she said. And he admitted to it under interrogation, but lots of people admit to all kinds of things they didn't do when grilled long and hard enough.
Which doesn't mean he didn't do it, but then again, there's precious little reason to believe that he did it just because some prosecutor said so, or even to believe he did it because the cops were able to confuse him into a confession.
(Xeny trusts prosecutors about as far as he can spit them)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:12 PM on October 29, 2003
His fiancee says she saw him do it, which is just he said / she said. And he admitted to it under interrogation, but lots of people admit to all kinds of things they didn't do when grilled long and hard enough.
Which doesn't mean he didn't do it, but then again, there's precious little reason to believe that he did it just because some prosecutor said so, or even to believe he did it because the cops were able to confuse him into a confession.
(Xeny trusts prosecutors about as far as he can spit them)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:12 PM on October 29, 2003
A six month stay in a psych institution would be far more likely to have lasting effects.
Thank goodness for a breath of sanity in here.
And what ROU_Xenophobe said.
posted by biscotti at 7:18 PM on October 29, 2003
Thank goodness for a breath of sanity in here.
And what ROU_Xenophobe said.
posted by biscotti at 7:18 PM on October 29, 2003
Hold on there, vigilantes. Not to say that this isn't VERY bad, but here's another write-up which clarifies that it wasn't his own daughter (not that that's particularly important), and that it was his girlfriend who found him in the compromising position. He did, according to this story, have to admit to what he did as part of the plea bargain, so he admitted to "manual and oral sexual contact with the infant", whatever that was.
Count me in the "keep the sick S.O.B. under close supervision and long-term treatment, but not in jail for freaking ever" camp.
posted by yhbc at 7:22 PM on October 29, 2003
Count me in the "keep the sick S.O.B. under close supervision and long-term treatment, but not in jail for freaking ever" camp.
posted by yhbc at 7:22 PM on October 29, 2003
(Xeny trusts prosecutors about as far as he can spit them)
Likewise X, and very good point I hadn't considered, but if there's any doubt, he shouldn't get anything at all, right? There is obviously enough of a case to sentence him in the first place. So before I go off here, how would you suggest I further research this?
posted by LouReedsSon at 7:22 PM on October 29, 2003
Likewise X, and very good point I hadn't considered, but if there's any doubt, he shouldn't get anything at all, right? There is obviously enough of a case to sentence him in the first place. So before I go off here, how would you suggest I further research this?
posted by LouReedsSon at 7:22 PM on October 29, 2003
This is such trashy tabloid news - noone here was at the trial (afaik), the article presents no facts and actually distortates some of the facts. It's journalism of the lowest, scummiest, common denominator.
in short it's a troll.
posted by carfilhiot at 7:42 PM on October 29, 2003
in short it's a troll.
posted by carfilhiot at 7:42 PM on October 29, 2003
``I am very sorry for my wrongdoing and want to get treatment,'' Lehman said in the statement.
He did it.
I'm sorry. From what I understand , research shows that pedophiles are almost impossible to rehabilitate. He may be sorry, he may repent, but he needs to do both in a place where he can never ever come in contact with a child for the rest of his life.
Put him in prison. Why should the psych patients have to be around this guy?
Oh, and remind me that reading Mefi before bed has its hazards. This makes me sick.
posted by konolia at 7:42 PM on October 29, 2003
He did it.
I'm sorry. From what I understand , research shows that pedophiles are almost impossible to rehabilitate. He may be sorry, he may repent, but he needs to do both in a place where he can never ever come in contact with a child for the rest of his life.
Put him in prison. Why should the psych patients have to be around this guy?
Oh, and remind me that reading Mefi before bed has its hazards. This makes me sick.
posted by konolia at 7:42 PM on October 29, 2003
Just because he said he did it as part of the plea bargain doesn't mean he actually did it. He was facing many years versus 6 months. If he couldn't afford a decent lawyer, he may have had no other choice.
posted by mischief at 8:06 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by mischief at 8:06 PM on October 29, 2003
From the King County Journal link:
posted by dg at 8:16 PM on October 29, 2003
Any prison time for Lehman would be suspendedSo he will most likely spend no time in jail for raping a 2 year-old? People see this and wonder why some get upset and suggest an alternative punishment?
posted by dg at 8:16 PM on October 29, 2003
Uh... Did you folks read the articles?
The alternative sentence will be recommended because Lehman meets the guidelines for it, not because of his father's occupation or status, Olson said.
``I do not believe who Mr. Lehman's father is had anything to do with it,'' Olson said Tuesday. ``In fact, I think that made them take a harder look at him and what to do with the case.
``I frankly haven't seen any special treatment whatsoever,'' he added. ``I believe he's been treated like any other person charged with this offense.''
Deputy Prosecutor Rich Anderson agreed.
``I agree who his father is had absolutely no effect on what we decided and how we decided it,'' Anderson said after the hearing. ``Who his father is had no bearing on how we resolved the case.''
Do you think the son should pay a steeper price than other in his shoes because his father's the head of corrections?
posted by daver at 8:20 PM on October 29, 2003
- First offense
- His sentence wasn't reduced from the typical 7-10 in the hoosgow, this is an alternate sentence which includes
- Prison time (6 mo)
- rehab (3+ years)
- Lifetime supervision
- Alternative sentencing was reached because he agreed to plead guilty, rather than fight this out as a "he said she said"
- Prosecutor and defense agree that his father had no improper role in the court proceedings
- his supervision is being transferred outside the Dept. of corrections, since his father heads the thing up
The alternative sentence will be recommended because Lehman meets the guidelines for it, not because of his father's occupation or status, Olson said.
``I do not believe who Mr. Lehman's father is had anything to do with it,'' Olson said Tuesday. ``In fact, I think that made them take a harder look at him and what to do with the case.
``I frankly haven't seen any special treatment whatsoever,'' he added. ``I believe he's been treated like any other person charged with this offense.''
Deputy Prosecutor Rich Anderson agreed.
``I agree who his father is had absolutely no effect on what we decided and how we decided it,'' Anderson said after the hearing. ``Who his father is had no bearing on how we resolved the case.''
Do you think the son should pay a steeper price than other in his shoes because his father's the head of corrections?
posted by daver at 8:20 PM on October 29, 2003
carfilhiot, what planet do they use the word "distortate" on? Because it sure isn't earth.
And DG, not a 2 year old, a 2 MONTH old child.
And I don't think he should be given any more punishment than someone else or any less because of who his father is. But it appears he was caught red handed, has admitted to it, admitted to another molestation, is an already convicted felon for armed robbery and is only looking at 6 months in jail. It is completely and totally wrong to let him off with such a minor slap on the wrist.
posted by fenriq at 8:35 PM on October 29, 2003
And DG, not a 2 year old, a 2 MONTH old child.
And I don't think he should be given any more punishment than someone else or any less because of who his father is. But it appears he was caught red handed, has admitted to it, admitted to another molestation, is an already convicted felon for armed robbery and is only looking at 6 months in jail. It is completely and totally wrong to let him off with such a minor slap on the wrist.
posted by fenriq at 8:35 PM on October 29, 2003
"He said, she said"??????? What the hell is that? The victim was 2 months old. I assume there is some forensic evidence and there is no way that he would only get 6 months in the State of MAYORBOB. Not that I would want him brutalized, raped, or killed in prison. No, I would like for him to spend the next ten to twenty years thinking about what he did.
And at the end of twenty years, if they couldn't manage to find the key, that would be such a major shame.
posted by MAYORBOB at 8:39 PM on October 29, 2003
And at the end of twenty years, if they couldn't manage to find the key, that would be such a major shame.
posted by MAYORBOB at 8:39 PM on October 29, 2003
"He said, she said"??????? What the hell is that?
That's when she says, "You raped my daughter," and he says, "No I didn't." Rocket science, this ain't.
I assume there is some forensic evidence
Doesn't sound like it to me. At least, nothing mentions it. Assuming that prosecutors are acting in good faith is just naive and/or dumb.
And the predominant reactions in this thread are good indicators of why an innocent person would not just admit to something he didn't do, but also make up corroborating stories of other crimes he didn't do. If the alternative is getting sent up for years, knowing full well that the jury will be too inflamed to bother with all that beyond-a-reasonable-doubt crap and just make someone PAAAAY!, knowing that the prosecutor really just has to hold up a cute picture of a baby and point at you and not present any evidence that the event actually took place, knowing that you can expect to be brutalized in prison with the advice and consent of the guards... well, in that case almost anything else sounds better.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:26 PM on October 29, 2003
That's when she says, "You raped my daughter," and he says, "No I didn't." Rocket science, this ain't.
I assume there is some forensic evidence
Doesn't sound like it to me. At least, nothing mentions it. Assuming that prosecutors are acting in good faith is just naive and/or dumb.
And the predominant reactions in this thread are good indicators of why an innocent person would not just admit to something he didn't do, but also make up corroborating stories of other crimes he didn't do. If the alternative is getting sent up for years, knowing full well that the jury will be too inflamed to bother with all that beyond-a-reasonable-doubt crap and just make someone PAAAAY!, knowing that the prosecutor really just has to hold up a cute picture of a baby and point at you and not present any evidence that the event actually took place, knowing that you can expect to be brutalized in prison with the advice and consent of the guards... well, in that case almost anything else sounds better.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:26 PM on October 29, 2003
That's right, the psych ward is such a spectacular idea — we can't have this guy corrupting the murderers and thieves, let's lock him up with a bunch of minors (>16 and you go to an adult psych hospital usually) whose worst crime is that they sliced up their wrists. Because by god those fucking kids have it coming.
Fuck the lot of you.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 10:12 PM on October 29, 2003
Fuck the lot of you.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 10:12 PM on October 29, 2003
I assume there is some forensic evidence
As ROU_Xenophobe said, if there had been anything solid, odds are the case would have gone differently. The reports we've seen linked here talk about "manual and oral sexual contact", not "penetration", the differences in forensic evidence between those two are in all likelihood quite substantial.
IshmaelGraves: maybe it's different where you live, but as far as I know in most places there are separate wards (or even entirely different hospitals) for suicidal teens and the criminally insane, you know? It's not like they put Bob the Crazy Butcher in the next bed to Sad Billy Smith.
posted by biscotti at 10:16 PM on October 29, 2003
As ROU_Xenophobe said, if there had been anything solid, odds are the case would have gone differently. The reports we've seen linked here talk about "manual and oral sexual contact", not "penetration", the differences in forensic evidence between those two are in all likelihood quite substantial.
IshmaelGraves: maybe it's different where you live, but as far as I know in most places there are separate wards (or even entirely different hospitals) for suicidal teens and the criminally insane, you know? It's not like they put Bob the Crazy Butcher in the next bed to Sad Billy Smith.
posted by biscotti at 10:16 PM on October 29, 2003
This reminds me of Fritz Lang's movie M. Although, I would side with Schranker and just execute the bastard.
posted by insomnyuk at 10:19 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by insomnyuk at 10:19 PM on October 29, 2003
I can understand the emotional motivation for a lot of crimes (I too, have wanted to kill someone in a very 'orrible way) but luckily, my morals put the kibosh on such thoughts very quickly. But that someone of his age would look at someone of the child's age and have sexual thoughts is akin to me trying to communicate with an alien species that relies on scent as a form of communication. I simply cannot understand what makes someone do that.
I am anti-death penalty and this is one of those times when my belief is tested.
posted by Dagobert at 11:05 PM on October 29, 2003
I am anti-death penalty and this is one of those times when my belief is tested.
posted by Dagobert at 11:05 PM on October 29, 2003
What he needs is mental health, not a prison gang bang.
posted by stbalbach at 11:17 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by stbalbach at 11:17 PM on October 29, 2003
So he can get an alternate sentence and some here think that's ok? I guess I wonder how many others convicted of the same type of crime are offered alternate sentences. And yes, I'm going on the assumption he's guilty because I can't find anything that suggests otherwise. Of the four sites I found that reported this, none painted a pretty picture of this guy. His one day in jail for a felony level robbery doesn't make sense and neither does an alternate sentence for child molestation. Of course if that is offered to every first offender, well who am I to argue. But something smells wrong here. Geeze, a drug posession charge can carry more weight than this. Maybe the parental me wants this guy castrated, but the rest of me would like to know for sure that if this guy is guilty of these charges he is given the same punishment anyone else would get.
posted by LouReedsSon at 11:18 PM on October 29, 2003
posted by LouReedsSon at 11:18 PM on October 29, 2003
Control is an illusion...
Thanx, loquacious. Hell, I've been saying that for years.
posted by alumshubby at 11:44 PM on October 29, 2003
Thanx, loquacious. Hell, I've been saying that for years.
posted by alumshubby at 11:44 PM on October 29, 2003
Well, Daddy might just have a little pull after all folks. According to this article his Dad wrote a letter to get him out of the robbery charge, and seems to have helped, but it was never mentioned. Might this be a reason punishment seems light?
But then you might also say that since he was charged with first-degree child rape(have to register) , the physical evidence was just not there to support it. Perhaps if the prosecutor went for a lesser charge this guy might see more time.
I found a site, but have lost the darn link, which posted a reply about this case from a local government official, and stated they would not speak on the topic. Interesting that they didn't even want to say it was a disgusting act.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 12:00 AM on October 30, 2003
But then you might also say that since he was charged with first-degree child rape(have to register) , the physical evidence was just not there to support it. Perhaps if the prosecutor went for a lesser charge this guy might see more time.
I found a site, but have lost the darn link, which posted a reply about this case from a local government official, and stated they would not speak on the topic. Interesting that they didn't even want to say it was a disgusting act.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 12:00 AM on October 30, 2003
Problem is that these guys normally get put into solitary. Stick him in the main building with a 300lb black guy called Bubba and 6 months sounds just fine to me.
posted by twine42 at 12:55 AM on October 30, 2003
posted by twine42 at 12:55 AM on October 30, 2003
Enough bollocks. End him. Move on.
posted by terrymiles at 1:30 AM on October 30, 2003
posted by terrymiles at 1:30 AM on October 30, 2003
300lb black guy called Bubba
cuz hail, everbody know serial rapin' mofos be giant black doods name o' bubba. now gimme them ritz, boy.
posted by quonsar at 1:54 AM on October 30, 2003
cuz hail, everbody know serial rapin' mofos be giant black doods name o' bubba. now gimme them ritz, boy.
posted by quonsar at 1:54 AM on October 30, 2003
"While interviewing Lehman Jr. in the current case, King County detectives said that Lehman Jr. also admitted molesting an unnamed 9-year-old girl in Maine in 1997, although he described the girl as the aggressor." (emphasis added)
Oh, I guess it's all right, then. </sarcasm>
posted by litlnemo at 3:46 AM on October 30, 2003
Oh, I guess it's all right, then. </sarcasm>
posted by litlnemo at 3:46 AM on October 30, 2003
fenriq - as a general observation, it seems to me that the concept of mercy doesn't have anything at all to do with "deserving" it.
posted by Irontom at 3:57 AM on October 30, 2003
posted by Irontom at 3:57 AM on October 30, 2003
Just because he said he did it as part of the plea bargain doesn't mean he actually did it.
Presumption of innocence ends when someone admits to a crime. At that point, I think it's defensible to presume that the person committed the crime absent evidence of prosecutorial excess. In this case, since his sentence is criminally lenient, I'll pick out the tree if someone else will find some rope.
posted by rcade at 5:40 AM on October 30, 2003
Presumption of innocence ends when someone admits to a crime. At that point, I think it's defensible to presume that the person committed the crime absent evidence of prosecutorial excess. In this case, since his sentence is criminally lenient, I'll pick out the tree if someone else will find some rope.
posted by rcade at 5:40 AM on October 30, 2003
It's obvious, he didn't have marijuana or other drugs. Then they would have "thrown the book" at him.
posted by joemeek at 6:17 AM on October 30, 2003
posted by joemeek at 6:17 AM on October 30, 2003
Found in another story:
She contacted King County sheriff's deputies Dec. 30. On Jan. 10, the fiancée wore a recording device provided by deputies, and spoke to Lehman about the incident.
He admitted the sexual contact with the child, and said he had tried additional contact, but stopped, because the child "wasn't very happy about it," according to charging papers.
posted by da5id at 6:33 AM on October 30, 2003
She contacted King County sheriff's deputies Dec. 30. On Jan. 10, the fiancée wore a recording device provided by deputies, and spoke to Lehman about the incident.
He admitted the sexual contact with the child, and said he had tried additional contact, but stopped, because the child "wasn't very happy about it," according to charging papers.
posted by da5id at 6:33 AM on October 30, 2003
there's no way that the prison system is going to do this man any good....What he needs is mental health, not a prison gang bang.
I don't really care what he needs or what's gonna do him good. Quite frankly what'll do society good is if he's kept separate from it. Leniency just enables this sick bastard to feel like he got away with something.
If the alternative is getting sent up for years, knowing full well that the jury will be too inflamed to bother with all that beyond-a-reasonable-doubt crap and just make someone PAAAAY!, knowing that the prosecutor really just has to hold up a cute picture of a baby and point at you and not present any evidence that the event actually took place, knowing that you can expect to be brutalized in prison with the advice and consent of the guards...
Right. Anyone disgusted by this man's behavior is just a bloodthirsty vigilante, and if pedophilia disgusts us, we must be puritanically repressed.
The guy has admitted to it. Most people would admit to serial murder before child molestation, so that leads me to believe he did commit the act. So let the bastard suffer.
posted by jonmc at 6:34 AM on October 30, 2003
I don't really care what he needs or what's gonna do him good. Quite frankly what'll do society good is if he's kept separate from it. Leniency just enables this sick bastard to feel like he got away with something.
If the alternative is getting sent up for years, knowing full well that the jury will be too inflamed to bother with all that beyond-a-reasonable-doubt crap and just make someone PAAAAY!, knowing that the prosecutor really just has to hold up a cute picture of a baby and point at you and not present any evidence that the event actually took place, knowing that you can expect to be brutalized in prison with the advice and consent of the guards...
Right. Anyone disgusted by this man's behavior is just a bloodthirsty vigilante, and if pedophilia disgusts us, we must be puritanically repressed.
The guy has admitted to it. Most people would admit to serial murder before child molestation, so that leads me to believe he did commit the act. So let the bastard suffer.
posted by jonmc at 6:34 AM on October 30, 2003
She contacted King County sheriff's deputies Dec. 30. On Jan. 10, the fiancée wore a recording device provided by deputies, and spoke to Lehman about the incident.
He admitted the sexual contact with the child, and said he had tried additional contact, but stopped, because the child "wasn't very happy about it," according to charging papers.
posted by da5id at 6:38 AM on October 30, 2003
He admitted the sexual contact with the child, and said he had tried additional contact, but stopped, because the child "wasn't very happy about it," according to charging papers.
posted by da5id at 6:38 AM on October 30, 2003
What is it with Washington State? We have sex predators who can't find homes, that run away, that move away and don't tell police, yada yada yada.
Is it all the rain? The gray clouds? Or is there some repressed puritanical cult living in the woods?
Almost daily there is a news story of some offender. Are other states like ours?
posted by grefo at 6:50 AM on October 30, 2003
Is it all the rain? The gray clouds? Or is there some repressed puritanical cult living in the woods?
Almost daily there is a news story of some offender. Are other states like ours?
posted by grefo at 6:50 AM on October 30, 2003
You know, normally I consider myself a pretty rational human...but I'm afraid I'll have to sign up for the vigilante team on this one.
Some people are so broken that the only solution is to remove them from society forever. Anyone who can sexualize and then act out by molesting an infant cannot ever be allowed near children again. He's broken...and study after study has shown that the recidivism rate amongst pedophiles is huge. This man is a predator of the worst kind, and he must not be allowed to continue the hunt.
Six months from now, it could be your kid he's trying to diddle. He broke the social contract in a particularly heinous way...and 6 months will hardly teach him that the contract is to be respected.
Get caught with some weed...go to prison for years. Rape an infant, get a cushy sentence...yeah, our justice system makes perfect sense.
posted by dejah420 at 7:07 AM on October 30, 2003
Some people are so broken that the only solution is to remove them from society forever. Anyone who can sexualize and then act out by molesting an infant cannot ever be allowed near children again. He's broken...and study after study has shown that the recidivism rate amongst pedophiles is huge. This man is a predator of the worst kind, and he must not be allowed to continue the hunt.
Six months from now, it could be your kid he's trying to diddle. He broke the social contract in a particularly heinous way...and 6 months will hardly teach him that the contract is to be respected.
Get caught with some weed...go to prison for years. Rape an infant, get a cushy sentence...yeah, our justice system makes perfect sense.
posted by dejah420 at 7:07 AM on October 30, 2003
The shame of this crime, and others like it, is that we as a society will continue to let this man victimize innocents because we are too cowardly to fulfill our important but often ugly responsibility to those children of making certain he never does it again.
And, in my opinion, it is a tribute to the law-abidingness and self-control of the American people that every convicted child rapist doesn't simply just disappear in the night.
posted by UncleFes at 7:20 AM on October 30, 2003
And, in my opinion, it is a tribute to the law-abidingness and self-control of the American people that every convicted child rapist doesn't simply just disappear in the night.
posted by UncleFes at 7:20 AM on October 30, 2003
Presumption of innocence ends when someone admits to a crime.Q: What do you call the guy who gets the lowest passing grade on the bar exam?
A: Lawyer (and a cheap one at that)
Do you really think this guy had the best defense team on his side?
Or, some country lawyer who took his '95 F-150 as trade?
One of my friends was falsely accused by a woman for molesting a minor, and seeing what he went through (like $50,000 to the lawyer for pre-trial proceedings) opened my eyes to so-called American justice.
posted by mischief at 7:28 AM on October 30, 2003
recidivism rate amongst pedophiles is huge.
A take on the subject...
posted by Cyrano at 7:30 AM on October 30, 2003
A take on the subject...
posted by Cyrano at 7:30 AM on October 30, 2003
This guy needs to be removed from society for a long time. Prison or mental health institution, he needs to be far away from children. It may be his 1st sex offense conviction, but the prior conviction for robbery should be considered. The only treatment for male pedophilia and predation seems to be castration, chemical or surgical, and even that doesn't always work.
I feel bad for the girlfriend. Pedophiles / predators often enter relationships with women who have young children. I can only imagine how devastating this must be for her.
posted by theora55 at 7:34 AM on October 30, 2003
I feel bad for the girlfriend. Pedophiles / predators often enter relationships with women who have young children. I can only imagine how devastating this must be for her.
posted by theora55 at 7:34 AM on October 30, 2003
I'll point out one more thing about sticking people like this (assuming he's guilty) in mental institutions, then I'm done. So many seem to think that it's a cushy sentence to put them in a hospital, but keep in mind that when someone goes to prison, they have a release date (unless they're sentenced to life without parole), being found criminally insane and sentenced to a mental institution usually lasts until the person is deemed safe to re-enter society, which in many cases, is never.
posted by biscotti at 7:52 AM on October 30, 2003
posted by biscotti at 7:52 AM on October 30, 2003
"until the person is deemed safe to re-enter society, which in many cases, is never..."
... or until the state cuts the budget.
posted by mischief at 8:22 AM on October 30, 2003
... or until the state cuts the budget.
posted by mischief at 8:22 AM on October 30, 2003
Anyone disgusted by this man's behavior is just a bloodthirsty vigilante, and if pedophilia disgusts us, we must be puritanically repressed.
There's a huge difference between being disgusted by this man's behavior and waving pom-poms at the thought of his gang-rape in prison.
I can be and am horrified and disgusted by his conduct. I agree that he deserves to be removed from society, isolated, and punished.
But violence begets violence. Rape is never funny, its never ok to use as "punishment" and it certainly isn't justice. What sets us apart should be our ability to use our rational minds, to understand that the intentional infliction of pain in all cases is evil and wrong. When we live in a culture that says that rape and violence are ok -- even praiseworthy - "in some circumstances" is it any wonder that some people have trouble understanding just what those circumstances are and step over the line.
I'm not saying "Society made him do it." What I am saying is that if the taboos in our culture against violence of any kind were stronger, it might have been more difficult for this man to step over the line into taboo territory.
posted by anastasiav at 10:05 AM on October 30, 2003
There's a huge difference between being disgusted by this man's behavior and waving pom-poms at the thought of his gang-rape in prison.
I can be and am horrified and disgusted by his conduct. I agree that he deserves to be removed from society, isolated, and punished.
But violence begets violence. Rape is never funny, its never ok to use as "punishment" and it certainly isn't justice. What sets us apart should be our ability to use our rational minds, to understand that the intentional infliction of pain in all cases is evil and wrong. When we live in a culture that says that rape and violence are ok -- even praiseworthy - "in some circumstances" is it any wonder that some people have trouble understanding just what those circumstances are and step over the line.
I'm not saying "Society made him do it." What I am saying is that if the taboos in our culture against violence of any kind were stronger, it might have been more difficult for this man to step over the line into taboo territory.
posted by anastasiav at 10:05 AM on October 30, 2003
...Stick him in the main building with a 300lb black guy called Bubba and 6 months sounds just fine to me.
...But not until after he's been on the receiving end of a few prison rapes first.
I'm disgusted by the callousness of people who turn a blind eye to prison rape, and even moreso by people who think that it should be meted out to certain people. That punishment is dispensed dispassionately is one of our justice system's greatest virtues, and gives it a tremendous amount of moral credibility. I understand that in this case it's losing a good deal of credibility by giving the guy such a light sentence, but please... And to the authors of those two quotes above: Whenever someone gets accused of rape, we should make sure that the victim wasn't themself a rapist, right? Because if it turns out that they are, then the accused is actually acting as an agent of the law and justice rather than in violation of it, right? And if questions like these ever become to morally complicated for us to deal with, we'll just tell the guards to take a coffee break so the skinheads can shiv whoever's causing the problem in the exercise yard.
posted by alphanerd at 10:07 AM on October 30, 2003
...But not until after he's been on the receiving end of a few prison rapes first.
I'm disgusted by the callousness of people who turn a blind eye to prison rape, and even moreso by people who think that it should be meted out to certain people. That punishment is dispensed dispassionately is one of our justice system's greatest virtues, and gives it a tremendous amount of moral credibility. I understand that in this case it's losing a good deal of credibility by giving the guy such a light sentence, but please... And to the authors of those two quotes above: Whenever someone gets accused of rape, we should make sure that the victim wasn't themself a rapist, right? Because if it turns out that they are, then the accused is actually acting as an agent of the law and justice rather than in violation of it, right? And if questions like these ever become to morally complicated for us to deal with, we'll just tell the guards to take a coffee break so the skinheads can shiv whoever's causing the problem in the exercise yard.
posted by alphanerd at 10:07 AM on October 30, 2003
anastasiav: Uhm... It looks like you won by a nose on that one.
posted by alphanerd at 10:10 AM on October 30, 2003
posted by alphanerd at 10:10 AM on October 30, 2003
anastasiav: I wasn't advocating that he be raped, just that they throw his ass in prison, preferably until he reaches his drooling dotage. The anger in my comment was from the sneering tone in the passage I quoted. I don't wish rape on anyone, although this guy getting the shit kicked out of him wouldn't break my heart.
posted by jonmc at 10:17 AM on October 30, 2003
posted by jonmc at 10:17 AM on October 30, 2003
The "sneering" is at the assumption that "this man's behavior" actually took place just on some DA's say-so. Even before it was revealed in this thread that there was corroborating evidence that wasn't likely bullshit, people were calling for the guy's death, rape, and other mean, nasty, ugly things.
Don't trust a DA any more than you'd trust whichever of Ashcroft or Michael Moore you trust less. That's all.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:51 AM on October 30, 2003
Don't trust a DA any more than you'd trust whichever of Ashcroft or Michael Moore you trust less. That's all.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:51 AM on October 30, 2003
innocent until proven guilty... or until you cut a deal.
posted by dabitch at 4:20 AM on October 31, 2003
posted by dabitch at 4:20 AM on October 31, 2003
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