20,000 feared dead in Iran quake
December 26, 2003 5:48 AM Subscribe
Damn, and Shrub Inc. was counting on them to be future military casualites.
Now he will have to invade Libya.
posted by mischief at 6:09 AM on December 26, 2003
Now he will have to invade Libya.
posted by mischief at 6:09 AM on December 26, 2003
Oh darn. Does this mean God actually IS on the side of the Shrub administration? I was hoping that was just wishful thinking on their part.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:13 AM on December 26, 2003
posted by ZachsMind at 6:13 AM on December 26, 2003
You guys are really just Freepers in reverse. People are dead, leave it at the curb.
posted by machaus at 6:16 AM on December 26, 2003
posted by machaus at 6:16 AM on December 26, 2003
Oh man.... it's IRAN not IRAQ.
There many countries in the world, you know.
posted by arnab at 6:16 AM on December 26, 2003
There many countries in the world, you know.
posted by arnab at 6:16 AM on December 26, 2003
Jesus. Is that the only response you can muster up to something like this: "hyuk, bad/good for Bush"? Or are Iranians not people somehow?
Bam is actually two cities, an ancient site (abandoned in the 19th century; more pictures) and a modern city (I can't find any links, because all people are interested in is the abandoned site), both now destroyed. If this happened in a Western country, we'd all be riveted to our TV sets. But it's just Iran, so carry on.
posted by languagehat at 6:31 AM on December 26, 2003
Bam is actually two cities, an ancient site (abandoned in the 19th century; more pictures) and a modern city (I can't find any links, because all people are interested in is the abandoned site), both now destroyed. If this happened in a Western country, we'd all be riveted to our TV sets. But it's just Iran, so carry on.
posted by languagehat at 6:31 AM on December 26, 2003
Wow. Proof the frindge will politicize anything.
posted by Dennis Murphy at 6:35 AM on December 26, 2003
posted by Dennis Murphy at 6:35 AM on December 26, 2003
thanks for those links, languagehat. this is a breathtaking loss of life, and of our cultural heritage. I'm sorry I never got to see Bam.
posted by stonerose at 6:54 AM on December 26, 2003
posted by stonerose at 6:54 AM on December 26, 2003
Terrible event, I hope as a country we will respond with some relief.
Iranian Truth is a weblog that is carrying news about the quake.
IranMania is a news site in English with updates on the quake.
posted by madamjujujive at 7:00 AM on December 26, 2003
Iranian Truth is a weblog that is carrying news about the quake.
IranMania is a news site in English with updates on the quake.
posted by madamjujujive at 7:00 AM on December 26, 2003
I lived in Iran and have been to Bam. This is terrible news. I have nothing but wonderful memories of the Iranian people.
mischief, ZachsMind, you clowns need to wear the "Dunce" cap and sit in the front of the class for a while.
posted by MrBaliHai at 7:02 AM on December 26, 2003
mischief, ZachsMind, you clowns need to wear the "Dunce" cap and sit in the front of the class for a while.
posted by MrBaliHai at 7:02 AM on December 26, 2003
Thanks to those who are injecting a sense of concern and empathy in this thread... we have plenty of other venues to by snarky. This is a serious tragedy.
posted by moonbird at 8:31 AM on December 26, 2003
posted by moonbird at 8:31 AM on December 26, 2003
so sad. hopefully this tragic event will remind us that we are all in this together, how many remember the candlelight vigils in tehran after 9-11?
posted by specialk420 at 9:37 AM on December 26, 2003
posted by specialk420 at 9:37 AM on December 26, 2003
I for one don't need a tragedy like this to be reminded we're all in this together, but unlike many I find sick twisted humor in the audacity and absurdity of it all. Ya gotta laugh at it, to keep from cryin'. I'm tired of cryin' about death. I make fun of Californians when there's thousands dead of an earthquake there too. Anyone who lives on a fault line deserves to wear the dunce cap. Not me.
As for feigning concern for a "serious tragedy" I am simply far too chagrined and over-exposed to distant death to muster any false concern. I applaud those of you who can fake it. Over 200 American soldiers have died this past year in Iran's neighboring country. I feel more concern for them than I do Iranians who died because they lived where nature told them not to stay. It's not like this is the first earthquake in that region. When I die from a tornado or a gang war or some other common danger that's common in my community, I certainly don't expect any Iranian (or anyone else for that matter) to give a rat's ass about my passing.
As for politicizing, Mischief's statement (I surmised) was based on loose indications that Shrub might aim at Iran next if he ever gets done with Iraq. I didn't see him mistaking one for the other. Iran's just as anti-west as Iraq. Again, if 20 thousand Californians died in an earthquake there'd be dances in Iranian streets, so comparatively I think we're sufficiently restrained by posting snarky comments on the Web.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:42 AM on December 26, 2003
As for feigning concern for a "serious tragedy" I am simply far too chagrined and over-exposed to distant death to muster any false concern. I applaud those of you who can fake it. Over 200 American soldiers have died this past year in Iran's neighboring country. I feel more concern for them than I do Iranians who died because they lived where nature told them not to stay. It's not like this is the first earthquake in that region. When I die from a tornado or a gang war or some other common danger that's common in my community, I certainly don't expect any Iranian (or anyone else for that matter) to give a rat's ass about my passing.
As for politicizing, Mischief's statement (I surmised) was based on loose indications that Shrub might aim at Iran next if he ever gets done with Iraq. I didn't see him mistaking one for the other. Iran's just as anti-west as Iraq. Again, if 20 thousand Californians died in an earthquake there'd be dances in Iranian streets, so comparatively I think we're sufficiently restrained by posting snarky comments on the Web.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:42 AM on December 26, 2003
I feel more concern for them than I do Iranians who died because they lived where nature told them not to stay.
including the children who were buried alive? and didn't have a lot of say as to where they were born? ... nor any malice whatsoever for your white american ass? sickening.
posted by specialk420 at 10:28 AM on December 26, 2003
including the children who were buried alive? and didn't have a lot of say as to where they were born? ... nor any malice whatsoever for your white american ass? sickening.
posted by specialk420 at 10:28 AM on December 26, 2003
So some idiots in the west are justified in rejoicing loss of life because some idiots in the east might do the same if the shoe was on the other foot? It's not quite as simple as you might think for people to move out of disaster zones. Or is the entire population of Bangladesh deserving of the dunce cap too?
posted by nthdegx at 10:29 AM on December 26, 2003
posted by nthdegx at 10:29 AM on December 26, 2003
I make fun of Californians when there's thousands dead of an earthquake there too.
Never happened.
Anyone who lives on a fault line deserves to wear the dunce cap. Not me.
Don't know if you've noticed, but nature's trying to kill you everywhere you live dunceboy. Fires, floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, extreme cold, extreme heat, drought, if you live somewhere, chances are you live with some kind of natural occurrence that's trying to take you out.
As for feigning concern for a "serious tragedy" I am simply far too chagrined and over-exposed to distant death to muster any false concern.
Nice. So instead of having "false concern," you consider four to six thousand people dying to be funny? Nice attempt at a save, but you just sound more like an ass.
posted by eyeballkid at 10:34 AM on December 26, 2003
Never happened.
Anyone who lives on a fault line deserves to wear the dunce cap. Not me.
Don't know if you've noticed, but nature's trying to kill you everywhere you live dunceboy. Fires, floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, extreme cold, extreme heat, drought, if you live somewhere, chances are you live with some kind of natural occurrence that's trying to take you out.
As for feigning concern for a "serious tragedy" I am simply far too chagrined and over-exposed to distant death to muster any false concern.
Nice. So instead of having "false concern," you consider four to six thousand people dying to be funny? Nice attempt at a save, but you just sound more like an ass.
posted by eyeballkid at 10:34 AM on December 26, 2003
Other nominees for Zachsmind's "dunce cap": New Yorkers -- let's face it, that air is deadly; Washingtonians -- surely our capitol will be the first to go in a suitcase-nuke attack; Japanese -- can you say "Ring of Fire" earthquake zone?; Los Angelenos -- yup, it's nobody's fault but their own; Scandanavians -- you could freeze to death up there, and those long nights are Suicide City; Africans -- the whole place is an AIDS-y mess; Indians -- of course they're starving, with that many people; Chinese -- doesn't roast dog carry mad cow too?; San Franciscans -- I can't wait for Rush's "Saddam and Gomorreah"-themed broadcast when the Big One hits (except me and my boyfriend will be buried under piles of redwood rubble.)
The Earth is a dangerous place.
posted by digaman at 10:41 AM on December 26, 2003
The Earth is a dangerous place.
posted by digaman at 10:41 AM on December 26, 2003
Why do natural cataclysms like this never seem to strike the world's wealthy? Does God hate the poor? The Gnostics probably thought so - at least of the Demiurge, anyway.
Will the next Jared Diamond develop some complex scientific explanation involving volcanic geology, wealth distribution, and building codes?
posted by troutfishing at 10:45 AM on December 26, 2003
Will the next Jared Diamond develop some complex scientific explanation involving volcanic geology, wealth distribution, and building codes?
posted by troutfishing at 10:45 AM on December 26, 2003
Mischief's statement (I surmised) was based on loose indications that Shrub might aim at Iran next...
Stop fucking saying "Shrub". It makes you sound idiotic.
posted by dhoyt at 10:49 AM on December 26, 2003
Stop fucking saying "Shrub". It makes you sound idiotic.
posted by dhoyt at 10:49 AM on December 26, 2003
What's interesting watching the news right now...
"Over 10 to 20 thousand people may be dead in Iran after an earthquak--
OH GOOD LORD 2 PEOPLE HAVE DIED IN A MUDSLIDE IN CALIFORNIA! We're going to go to full 24 hour coverage of that."
posted by Stan Chin at 10:50 AM on December 26, 2003
"Over 10 to 20 thousand people may be dead in Iran after an earthquak--
OH GOOD LORD 2 PEOPLE HAVE DIED IN A MUDSLIDE IN CALIFORNIA! We're going to go to full 24 hour coverage of that."
posted by Stan Chin at 10:50 AM on December 26, 2003
shrub shrub shrub shrub shrub shrub shrub shrub
EARTHQUAKE! EARTHQUAKE!
posted by quonsar at 10:58 AM on December 26, 2003
EARTHQUAKE! EARTHQUAKE!
posted by quonsar at 10:58 AM on December 26, 2003
what Stan said...CNN is wall to wall with mudslides..
and trout, I would call the big fires recently in California as a natural disaster hitting the wealthy or semi-wealthy (especially comparatively).
posted by amberglow at 11:10 AM on December 26, 2003
and trout, I would call the big fires recently in California as a natural disaster hitting the wealthy or semi-wealthy (especially comparatively).
posted by amberglow at 11:10 AM on December 26, 2003
I am an ass. Or did you not get the memo? I make no apologies and I do not pretend to be anything other than what I am.
You claim to care that people on the other side of the world have died? What about the people on these shores starving and homeless? Our own flesh & blood going over there to die. That matters less than "the children." Because it's not an earthquake or a war you don't feign concern for them? Maybe you just feign ignorance.
Once again people with no sense of humor misunderstand that of those of us who actually exercise ours. It's not the terrible deaths that are funny. It's the absurdity that led up to it, and the audacity and hypocrisy surrounding people's reactions to this. You're fully within your rights to build a mud hut on a fault line, but when you wake up buried alive, don't come crying to me.
Why didn't ya care about these people before the earthquake? Why do they suddenly matter to you now that they're dead or dying? That's what I find funny.
And I say "Shrub" to differentiate between the present Bush and the one from over a decade ago. If people didn't use "Shrub" it'd be difficult to tell the difference, since they're both making many of the same mistakes. Referring to GWBush as a competent president is what truly sounds idiotic.
"Blessed are the poor, for they shall inherit the earth
Better to be poor than a fat man in the eye of a needle
And as these words were spoken I swore
I hear the old man laughing
'What good is a used up world and how could it be worth having'?"
posted by ZachsMind at 11:11 AM on December 26, 2003
You claim to care that people on the other side of the world have died? What about the people on these shores starving and homeless? Our own flesh & blood going over there to die. That matters less than "the children." Because it's not an earthquake or a war you don't feign concern for them? Maybe you just feign ignorance.
Once again people with no sense of humor misunderstand that of those of us who actually exercise ours. It's not the terrible deaths that are funny. It's the absurdity that led up to it, and the audacity and hypocrisy surrounding people's reactions to this. You're fully within your rights to build a mud hut on a fault line, but when you wake up buried alive, don't come crying to me.
Why didn't ya care about these people before the earthquake? Why do they suddenly matter to you now that they're dead or dying? That's what I find funny.
And I say "Shrub" to differentiate between the present Bush and the one from over a decade ago. If people didn't use "Shrub" it'd be difficult to tell the difference, since they're both making many of the same mistakes. Referring to GWBush as a competent president is what truly sounds idiotic.
"Blessed are the poor, for they shall inherit the earth
Better to be poor than a fat man in the eye of a needle
And as these words were spoken I swore
I hear the old man laughing
'What good is a used up world and how could it be worth having'?"
posted by ZachsMind at 11:11 AM on December 26, 2003
Why do natural cataclysms like this never seem to strike the world's wealthy?
Actually, just earlier this week, an earthquake of very similar scale (Richter 6.5 versus this one's 6.7) hit an even more heavily populated swath of California, yet only two people died there, rather than the literally thousands of times as many likely dead in this disaster.
As digaman points out, nature is out to get us all, no matter how full our wallets. Those of us lucky enough to live in wealthy countries have simply been able to buy better protection against those forces.
That said, considering that we provide preventive assistance to poor countries in an effort to combat disease (i.e. vaccinations) or starvation (i.e. food), do we provide any sort of engineering or similar assistance to help reduce the catastrophic effects of natural disaster?
posted by thomascrown at 11:15 AM on December 26, 2003
Actually, just earlier this week, an earthquake of very similar scale (Richter 6.5 versus this one's 6.7) hit an even more heavily populated swath of California, yet only two people died there, rather than the literally thousands of times as many likely dead in this disaster.
As digaman points out, nature is out to get us all, no matter how full our wallets. Those of us lucky enough to live in wealthy countries have simply been able to buy better protection against those forces.
That said, considering that we provide preventive assistance to poor countries in an effort to combat disease (i.e. vaccinations) or starvation (i.e. food), do we provide any sort of engineering or similar assistance to help reduce the catastrophic effects of natural disaster?
posted by thomascrown at 11:15 AM on December 26, 2003
stop badgering us, q.
thomasc, I was just going to make the same observation, compating the San Simeon quake and the Bam quake. When I first heard about it, I started making mental comparisons and judgements until I got a headache and took a Motrin.
<post-holiday snark>
Still, wasn't a city named "BAM" just asking for it?
</post-holiday snark>
Of course, one reason for the over-coverage of the mudslides may be because it's the same area as the previous fires... it's much easier to cover a story in a place you just left last month...
Note to self: begin referring to MeFite #588 as "ZachsAss".
posted by wendell at 11:20 AM on December 26, 2003
thomasc, I was just going to make the same observation, compating the San Simeon quake and the Bam quake. When I first heard about it, I started making mental comparisons and judgements until I got a headache and took a Motrin.
<post-holiday snark>
Still, wasn't a city named "BAM" just asking for it?
</post-holiday snark>
Of course, one reason for the over-coverage of the mudslides may be because it's the same area as the previous fires... it's much easier to cover a story in a place you just left last month...
Note to self: begin referring to MeFite #588 as "ZachsAss".
posted by wendell at 11:20 AM on December 26, 2003
Why didn't ya care about these people before the earthquake? Why do they suddenly matter to you now that they're dead or dying? That's what I find funny.
Now that's absurd.
posted by eyeballkid at 11:23 AM on December 26, 2003
Now that's absurd.
posted by eyeballkid at 11:23 AM on December 26, 2003
You're fully within your rights to build a mud hut on a fault line, but when you wake up buried alive, don't come crying to me.
Has that been a problem for you, lots of dead Iranians showing up, looking for symapthy?
posted by thirteen at 11:28 AM on December 26, 2003
Has that been a problem for you, lots of dead Iranians showing up, looking for symapthy?
posted by thirteen at 11:28 AM on December 26, 2003
Wendell, that's "ZachsAss SIR" to you. *smirk*
Actually 13, my problem is hypocrites in this forum calling me out for not faking sympathy for dead Iranians. They're probably also the same kinda bozos who demanded a respectful time period before people could start telling Columbia or Challenger jokes. What's NASA stand for? Need Another Seven Astronauts. Steve Allen once said "tragedy plus time equals comedy." I just need less time than some people.
Eyeballkid, it's absurd to ask for compassion while it still matters, instead of after it's too late? This just gets better and better.
posted by ZachsMind at 11:36 AM on December 26, 2003
Actually 13, my problem is hypocrites in this forum calling me out for not faking sympathy for dead Iranians. They're probably also the same kinda bozos who demanded a respectful time period before people could start telling Columbia or Challenger jokes. What's NASA stand for? Need Another Seven Astronauts. Steve Allen once said "tragedy plus time equals comedy." I just need less time than some people.
Eyeballkid, it's absurd to ask for compassion while it still matters, instead of after it's too late? This just gets better and better.
posted by ZachsMind at 11:36 AM on December 26, 2003
They're probably also the same kinda bozos who demanded a respectful time period before people could start telling Columbia or Challenger jokes.
Zachsmind, that kind of attitude is lamer than FDR's legs. Maybe you don't need much time, but you apparently can see that others do. Would it really be that much trouble to let them have their time?
posted by j.edwards at 11:42 AM on December 26, 2003
Zachsmind, that kind of attitude is lamer than FDR's legs. Maybe you don't need much time, but you apparently can see that others do. Would it really be that much trouble to let them have their time?
posted by j.edwards at 11:42 AM on December 26, 2003
Zach, it seems a little arrogant to me that , just because people don't find one thing funny that you find funny, they therefore have no sense of humour, and are obviously subject to a whole rake of character flaws (not caring until after the event, feigning concern...) Those are rather large and fundamental assumptions to make about people's character based on a sense of humour and tact slightly out of phase with your own. While you see fake concern on the one hand, no doubt others see a bizarre desire to be the first in with the controversial comment on the other, which no doubt is a sign of wishing to be the centre of attention, and to appear smarter than everyone else. The BS assumptions can work both ways.
posted by nthdegx at 12:09 PM on December 26, 2003
posted by nthdegx at 12:09 PM on December 26, 2003
Eyeballkid, it's absurd to ask for compassion while it still matters, instead of after it's too late?
Are you even reading what you type? Do you see the logical fallacies? That large a number deaths has a pretty big effect on the living community around the event. Maybe you remember 9-11? There were planes, a building, lots of carnage? That's a deadly event that's going to linger.
You know that this is an international community, being on the Internet and all, right? I would never purport to feeling severly affected by this quake. To tell you the truth, I can't feel any real first hand sympathy for those involved, not having known them. What I do have an awareness of, an awareness you seem to lack, is the fact that, again stating the obvious, this site is read by thousands of people, some of which, I'm pretty sure, are affected first hand by the quake in Iran. While I can't say that my own brother died, I can be empathetic for those who did lose someone.
Steve Allen once said "tragedy plus time equals comedy." I just need less time than some people.
You also need to understand comedy for that to work. You could wait a thousand years and this kind of material won't become comedy gold.
I understand that you think you look cool being so unaffected, like the kid smoking in the corner by the high school bleachers wearing the bauhaus t-shirt and mocking the normals for having "feelings." I'm just letting you know that's really not the case. You look like an ass.
posted by eyeballkid at 12:42 PM on December 26, 2003
Are you even reading what you type? Do you see the logical fallacies? That large a number deaths has a pretty big effect on the living community around the event. Maybe you remember 9-11? There were planes, a building, lots of carnage? That's a deadly event that's going to linger.
You know that this is an international community, being on the Internet and all, right? I would never purport to feeling severly affected by this quake. To tell you the truth, I can't feel any real first hand sympathy for those involved, not having known them. What I do have an awareness of, an awareness you seem to lack, is the fact that, again stating the obvious, this site is read by thousands of people, some of which, I'm pretty sure, are affected first hand by the quake in Iran. While I can't say that my own brother died, I can be empathetic for those who did lose someone.
Steve Allen once said "tragedy plus time equals comedy." I just need less time than some people.
You also need to understand comedy for that to work. You could wait a thousand years and this kind of material won't become comedy gold.
I understand that you think you look cool being so unaffected, like the kid smoking in the corner by the high school bleachers wearing the bauhaus t-shirt and mocking the normals for having "feelings." I'm just letting you know that's really not the case. You look like an ass.
posted by eyeballkid at 12:42 PM on December 26, 2003
don't come crying to me.
i don't think anyone asked you come out of your cave and offer any sympathy ... on the other hand, a pattering of applause is offered for reminding us how ugly some (who then chase their tails in circles trying to explain why) can be.
posted by specialk420 at 12:42 PM on December 26, 2003
i don't think anyone asked you come out of your cave and offer any sympathy ... on the other hand, a pattering of applause is offered for reminding us how ugly some (who then chase their tails in circles trying to explain why) can be.
posted by specialk420 at 12:42 PM on December 26, 2003
"Have you ever noticed? Anybody going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac!" - G.Carlin
posted by ZachsMind at 12:45 PM on December 26, 2003
posted by ZachsMind at 12:45 PM on December 26, 2003
"....As digaman points out, nature is out to get us all, no matter how full our wallets." - thomascrown, nature isn't after me at all. It's after my wallet, by way of environmentalist alarmist stooges!
But really now - More of the world's volcanism and earthquake activity seems to happen in poor areas. California and Japan are "ring of fire" disaster zones, sure. And I know that the rich have better defenses against natural disasters - like building codes that prevent thousands of structures from collapsing in a 6.5 or 6.7 quake.
It's probably just my subjective sense that God (or whatever - simply "reality" if you wish) beats on the poor. Still, when you look at a region such as Central America - with it's long history of military repression of the poor, earthquake disasters, hurricane disasters....it seems unfair.
I want someone to demonstrate, empirically, that the situation is demonstrably loaded so as to beat on the world's poor. Then, I can use that as evidence to back up my crypto-gnostic beliefs and come out with my case that the Judeo-Christian god of the Old Testament (G_D or "Jehovah", or "Yahweh") is a malevolent and vengeful deity.
posted by troutfishing at 12:49 PM on December 26, 2003
But really now - More of the world's volcanism and earthquake activity seems to happen in poor areas. California and Japan are "ring of fire" disaster zones, sure. And I know that the rich have better defenses against natural disasters - like building codes that prevent thousands of structures from collapsing in a 6.5 or 6.7 quake.
It's probably just my subjective sense that God (or whatever - simply "reality" if you wish) beats on the poor. Still, when you look at a region such as Central America - with it's long history of military repression of the poor, earthquake disasters, hurricane disasters....it seems unfair.
I want someone to demonstrate, empirically, that the situation is demonstrably loaded so as to beat on the world's poor. Then, I can use that as evidence to back up my crypto-gnostic beliefs and come out with my case that the Judeo-Christian god of the Old Testament (G_D or "Jehovah", or "Yahweh") is a malevolent and vengeful deity.
posted by troutfishing at 12:49 PM on December 26, 2003
hey trout.
could it have anything to do with the fact that 90% of the worlds population is by most defintions "poor"?
posted by specialk420 at 12:57 PM on December 26, 2003
could it have anything to do with the fact that 90% of the worlds population is by most defintions "poor"?
posted by specialk420 at 12:57 PM on December 26, 2003
You could wait a thousand years and this kind of material won't become comedy gold.
Yeah, but if you wait a million years, it could turn to comedy oil...
Is somebody auditioning for 'substitute quonsar'? ('Cause if the job pays, I'll submit my resume and a urine sample - in your cornflakes...)
And, trout, I would contend that there is an obvious correlation between poverty and geographical areas with hostile climates (can't grow food) or poor access (can't trade goods). Earthquake faultlines are much more random, since the problem does not interfere with day-to-day life, and human beings - whether rich or poor - don't seem to be good at the long-term planning required to keep away from shaky places. I know I'm not.
posted by wendell at 1:00 PM on December 26, 2003
Yeah, but if you wait a million years, it could turn to comedy oil...
Is somebody auditioning for 'substitute quonsar'? ('Cause if the job pays, I'll submit my resume and a urine sample - in your cornflakes...)
And, trout, I would contend that there is an obvious correlation between poverty and geographical areas with hostile climates (can't grow food) or poor access (can't trade goods). Earthquake faultlines are much more random, since the problem does not interfere with day-to-day life, and human beings - whether rich or poor - don't seem to be good at the long-term planning required to keep away from shaky places. I know I'm not.
posted by wendell at 1:00 PM on December 26, 2003
Additional links to Red Cross/Red Crescent organizations via ICRC, including a link directly to Red Crescent of Iran.
Of course, in the current political climate, donating to Islamic charitable groups of any kind could get you on a list in the Justice Department somewhere, but do the right thing anyway.
posted by briank at 1:05 PM on December 26, 2003
Of course, in the current political climate, donating to Islamic charitable groups of any kind could get you on a list in the Justice Department somewhere, but do the right thing anyway.
posted by briank at 1:05 PM on December 26, 2003
Actually, just earlier this week, an earthquake of very similar scale (Richter 6.5 versus this one's 6.7) hit an even more heavily populated swath of California, yet only two people died there, rather than the literally thousands of times as many likely dead in this disaster.
Saying it hit a "more populated swath" is not really telling the whole story. Yes the county of San Luis Opisbo has a population of 250,000, but spread out. But one major indicator of how high the death toll from an earthquake will be is how close a major population center is to the epicenter. Cities and towns that look to have been at a comparable distance from the CA quake: The town of San Simeon, CA has a population of about 500. The town of Paso Robles has about 25,000 people.
The city of Bam, Iran has a population estimated at 80,000 (maybe up to 200,000 from some reports). Who knows how many Iranians were in an area around the epicenter comperable to the area of S.L.O. county.
And this is not even accounting for a lot of other factors that determine ground shaking due to a given quake, like soil types and other geological features, depth of the quake, etc.
Also very important is the kind of construction used in peoples' homes. The US is really one of the few places in the world where people are living predominantly in wood-framed houses. In a quake, wood has the advantages of being lightweight and flexible. Compare that to unreinforced masonry, mud, or concrete dwellings that are heavy, rigid, and brittle, which is what alot of the world's population is living in. Note that the structure that collapsed and killed people in CA was an old, unreinforced masonry tower (unreinforced means no steel reinforcing bars were present in the masonry.)
posted by pitchblende at 1:12 PM on December 26, 2003
Saying it hit a "more populated swath" is not really telling the whole story. Yes the county of San Luis Opisbo has a population of 250,000, but spread out. But one major indicator of how high the death toll from an earthquake will be is how close a major population center is to the epicenter. Cities and towns that look to have been at a comparable distance from the CA quake: The town of San Simeon, CA has a population of about 500. The town of Paso Robles has about 25,000 people.
The city of Bam, Iran has a population estimated at 80,000 (maybe up to 200,000 from some reports). Who knows how many Iranians were in an area around the epicenter comperable to the area of S.L.O. county.
And this is not even accounting for a lot of other factors that determine ground shaking due to a given quake, like soil types and other geological features, depth of the quake, etc.
Also very important is the kind of construction used in peoples' homes. The US is really one of the few places in the world where people are living predominantly in wood-framed houses. In a quake, wood has the advantages of being lightweight and flexible. Compare that to unreinforced masonry, mud, or concrete dwellings that are heavy, rigid, and brittle, which is what alot of the world's population is living in. Note that the structure that collapsed and killed people in CA was an old, unreinforced masonry tower (unreinforced means no steel reinforcing bars were present in the masonry.)
posted by pitchblende at 1:12 PM on December 26, 2003
Zach, you're obviously just trolling at this point, so I'll refrain from tossing any more chum underneath the bridge for you to munch on. All I can say is that I hope that you get the chance to travel to the Middle East sometime and actually spend some time with these people that you can't seem to muster any sympathy for. Most Iranians I've met are pleasant, hospitable to a fault, and despite the fact that a few crackpot mullahs control the country, are far more sympathetic to the West than you might imagine. And even if they were none of those things, I'd still want to help them because I believe that's how human beings should behave towards each other.
posted by MrBaliHai at 1:14 PM on December 26, 2003
posted by MrBaliHai at 1:14 PM on December 26, 2003
You know Zachsmind, I was going to call Troll on you but by further reading your responses
I came to the conclusion that you're just a little be derailed and missing some
notions that could help you communicate better.
Oh darn. Does this mean God actually IS on the side of the Shrub administration?
I was hoping that was just wishful thinking on their part
Eheh yeah I see the humor, expecially when somebody very important suggested that
he's on a mission from God, but he isn't half as cool as the Blues Brothers neither
as good.
I make fun of Californians when there's thousands dead of an earthquake there too.
Anyone who lives on a fault line deserves to wear the dunce cap. Not me
Well that's pretty much illogical, isn't it ? You start from the assumption that
anyone=everybody living on the fault line is a moron becase he/she knows that the region
is very unsafe. Therefore, if he/she still lives there even after so many warnings
then he/she deservers whatever happens and has no grounds for complaining.
Indeed he has little ground for complaining if he had a _chance_ of going to live elsewhere
and if he was _aware_ of the danger, but what if he didn't have any ?
Imagine this: you don't have the money to relocate, or to build yourself or just move your
house in some safe place. Are you still a dunce cap if you had no choice, no matter how
hard you tried ? Obviously no, because your will and skills become useless when you
have practically no choice. That is not to say that you shouldn't try to have choices and
follow opportunities, but sometimes even if you do that you'll fail because you didn't
have a chance to win, but you wasn't aware of that.
Therefore the assumption that everybody living near a fault line is a moron is faulty because
it doesn't consider that some people living near a fault line maybe couldn't manage to do better
or have the money to go away, even if they're technically no morons. Sometimes even having a job
position is a compelling enough reason to remain near dangerous places ; that doesn't imply that
the person is a dunce cap/moron otherwise he wouldn't have the job position to begin with.
Over 200 American soldiers have died this past year in Iran's neighboring country. I feel more
concern for them than I do Iranians who died because they lived where nature told them not to stay
Again, pay attention. This is irrational.
If "nature" or instinct told American/UK/whatever soldiers that being shot is dangerous (and they know) but
they still go in Iraq, are they morons for that ? I don't think so. Did they have any choice NOT
to go there ? No, they didn't because they gave up choice when they enlisted. Were they sent
there for a good reason ? That's another topic entirely, I'll not digress.
If "nature" or instinct told Iranians that building with mud is dangerous, but they still do, are they
morons because they still build with mud ? Maybe yes, but how many of them knows how to build an antisismic
house ? How many of them can find a job/money/resource to relocate ? How many of them know that
God isn't (imho) but an human invention and that no God is angry and sending earthquakes ?
Again, if 20 thousand Californians died in an earthquake there'd be dances in Iranian streets
Maybe, but that doesn't mean that all Iranians hate Californians. Neither does it mean that all Americans
agree with Gulf War II because somebody is trumpeting the war as "this short from holy" on national TV.
Neither does it mean that all europeans disagree with American or vice versa, or that France is evil.
Pay attention to wide generalizations, they're very often wrong and dangerous.
You claim to care that people on the other side of the world have died? What about the people on these
shores starving and homeless? Our own flesh & blood going over there to die. That matters less than
"the children." Because it's not an earthquake or a war you don't feign concern for them? Maybe
you just feign ignorance
There I agree with you that many people (not every) just pay attention to what TV says them is a disaster
while if they only stopped for a minute they'd see disasters and suffering all around them. But it doesn't
really matter if it is "your blood" or "other blood" suffering, suffering is suffering regardless of colors.
I understand you want to point out the hypocrisy of some people that say they are very concerned about
something then do absolutely nothing about the cause of their concern, expecially when the problem doesn't
really affect them. But, instead of attacking the expressions of sympathy, you could just point out that
the expression of sympathy is fine, but that it is not going to do MUCH if it is not followed by positive
actions which are another often more appreciated expression of concern.
posted by elpapacito at 1:17 PM on December 26, 2003
I came to the conclusion that you're just a little be derailed and missing some
notions that could help you communicate better.
Oh darn. Does this mean God actually IS on the side of the Shrub administration?
I was hoping that was just wishful thinking on their part
Eheh yeah I see the humor, expecially when somebody very important suggested that
he's on a mission from God, but he isn't half as cool as the Blues Brothers neither
as good.
I make fun of Californians when there's thousands dead of an earthquake there too.
Anyone who lives on a fault line deserves to wear the dunce cap. Not me
Well that's pretty much illogical, isn't it ? You start from the assumption that
anyone=everybody living on the fault line is a moron becase he/she knows that the region
is very unsafe. Therefore, if he/she still lives there even after so many warnings
then he/she deservers whatever happens and has no grounds for complaining.
Indeed he has little ground for complaining if he had a _chance_ of going to live elsewhere
and if he was _aware_ of the danger, but what if he didn't have any ?
Imagine this: you don't have the money to relocate, or to build yourself or just move your
house in some safe place. Are you still a dunce cap if you had no choice, no matter how
hard you tried ? Obviously no, because your will and skills become useless when you
have practically no choice. That is not to say that you shouldn't try to have choices and
follow opportunities, but sometimes even if you do that you'll fail because you didn't
have a chance to win, but you wasn't aware of that.
Therefore the assumption that everybody living near a fault line is a moron is faulty because
it doesn't consider that some people living near a fault line maybe couldn't manage to do better
or have the money to go away, even if they're technically no morons. Sometimes even having a job
position is a compelling enough reason to remain near dangerous places ; that doesn't imply that
the person is a dunce cap/moron otherwise he wouldn't have the job position to begin with.
Over 200 American soldiers have died this past year in Iran's neighboring country. I feel more
concern for them than I do Iranians who died because they lived where nature told them not to stay
Again, pay attention. This is irrational.
If "nature" or instinct told American/UK/whatever soldiers that being shot is dangerous (and they know) but
they still go in Iraq, are they morons for that ? I don't think so. Did they have any choice NOT
to go there ? No, they didn't because they gave up choice when they enlisted. Were they sent
there for a good reason ? That's another topic entirely, I'll not digress.
If "nature" or instinct told Iranians that building with mud is dangerous, but they still do, are they
morons because they still build with mud ? Maybe yes, but how many of them knows how to build an antisismic
house ? How many of them can find a job/money/resource to relocate ? How many of them know that
God isn't (imho) but an human invention and that no God is angry and sending earthquakes ?
Again, if 20 thousand Californians died in an earthquake there'd be dances in Iranian streets
Maybe, but that doesn't mean that all Iranians hate Californians. Neither does it mean that all Americans
agree with Gulf War II because somebody is trumpeting the war as "this short from holy" on national TV.
Neither does it mean that all europeans disagree with American or vice versa, or that France is evil.
Pay attention to wide generalizations, they're very often wrong and dangerous.
You claim to care that people on the other side of the world have died? What about the people on these
shores starving and homeless? Our own flesh & blood going over there to die. That matters less than
"the children." Because it's not an earthquake or a war you don't feign concern for them? Maybe
you just feign ignorance
There I agree with you that many people (not every) just pay attention to what TV says them is a disaster
while if they only stopped for a minute they'd see disasters and suffering all around them. But it doesn't
really matter if it is "your blood" or "other blood" suffering, suffering is suffering regardless of colors.
I understand you want to point out the hypocrisy of some people that say they are very concerned about
something then do absolutely nothing about the cause of their concern, expecially when the problem doesn't
really affect them. But, instead of attacking the expressions of sympathy, you could just point out that
the expression of sympathy is fine, but that it is not going to do MUCH if it is not followed by positive
actions which are another often more appreciated expression of concern.
posted by elpapacito at 1:17 PM on December 26, 2003
Deadly History of Earthquakes - how this one will compare. Iran had a 40,000 dead earthquake in 1990.
posted by stbalbach at 1:36 PM on December 26, 2003
posted by stbalbach at 1:36 PM on December 26, 2003
Most Destructive Known Earthquakes on Record in the World Earthquakes with 50,000 or More Deaths
posted by stbalbach at 1:42 PM on December 26, 2003
posted by stbalbach at 1:42 PM on December 26, 2003
I didn't troll. I got pounced for being snarky. I defended myself by pointing out the hyprocrisy of my attackers. Hemlock was forced down my neck. Case closed.
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music."
posted by ZachsMind at 1:58 PM on December 26, 2003
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music."
posted by ZachsMind at 1:58 PM on December 26, 2003
Over 200 American soldiers have died this past year in Iran's neighboring country.
As opposed to the injured....people who are missing body parts over the need to remove stockpiles of Weapons of Mass Destruction. People who will now be part of the 'vet hospital system', how do you feel about those people ZachsMind?
Do you feel enough to go to your congressmen and ask for higher taxes to make sure the women and men who've been injured are taken care of?
posted by rough ashlar at 2:03 PM on December 26, 2003
As opposed to the injured....people who are missing body parts over the need to remove stockpiles of Weapons of Mass Destruction. People who will now be part of the 'vet hospital system', how do you feel about those people ZachsMind?
Do you feel enough to go to your congressmen and ask for higher taxes to make sure the women and men who've been injured are taken care of?
posted by rough ashlar at 2:03 PM on December 26, 2003
ZachsMind, thank you for broadening my horizons. The world really needs more iconoclasts like you.
posted by Devils Slide at 2:08 PM on December 26, 2003
posted by Devils Slide at 2:08 PM on December 26, 2003
stbalbach - Well that clinches it. God's got a grudge against greater Asia. Not surprising. In all the pictures I 've seen, that old bearded guy's features look mighty european to me!
Plate Tectonics, the cause of earthquakes
(from my link, above) ".....The map below locates earthquakes around the globe. They are not evenly distributed; the boundaries between the plates grind against each other, producing most earthquakes. So the lines of earthquakes help define the plates: "
Based on exhaustive studies, I've concluded that - to lower my Earthquake Risk Profile™ - I need to move to Russia, Canada, Africa, South America (except around the Andes) or Antartica.
wendell - maybe all the active Metafilter members can take up a collection and hire you as as mini-quonsar. We could also call you "quonsar's bulldog", but - this is important - you wouldn't be allowed to refer to yourself as "wendell" anymore. OK?
specialk420 - sure, it could have something to do with the fact that 90% of the world's people are poor. That just supports my hypothesis that the God who holds sway over the earth is the malevolent gnostic Demiurge who is - crucially - to be distinguished from the benevolent, loving God of the New Testament, ultimately the far greater deity. (where's Konolia?)
Meanwhile - surely the US could divert a few billion from that 87 billion dollar Iraq occupation/rebuilding/Halliburton aid package to help with the countless thousands of wounded, homeless, and displaced quake victims in Iran?
posted by troutfishing at 2:22 PM on December 26, 2003
Plate Tectonics, the cause of earthquakes
(from my link, above) ".....The map below locates earthquakes around the globe. They are not evenly distributed; the boundaries between the plates grind against each other, producing most earthquakes. So the lines of earthquakes help define the plates: "
Based on exhaustive studies, I've concluded that - to lower my Earthquake Risk Profile™ - I need to move to Russia, Canada, Africa, South America (except around the Andes) or Antartica.
wendell - maybe all the active Metafilter members can take up a collection and hire you as as mini-quonsar. We could also call you "quonsar's bulldog", but - this is important - you wouldn't be allowed to refer to yourself as "wendell" anymore. OK?
specialk420 - sure, it could have something to do with the fact that 90% of the world's people are poor. That just supports my hypothesis that the God who holds sway over the earth is the malevolent gnostic Demiurge who is - crucially - to be distinguished from the benevolent, loving God of the New Testament, ultimately the far greater deity. (where's Konolia?)
Meanwhile - surely the US could divert a few billion from that 87 billion dollar Iraq occupation/rebuilding/Halliburton aid package to help with the countless thousands of wounded, homeless, and displaced quake victims in Iran?
posted by troutfishing at 2:22 PM on December 26, 2003
* note to self : post question on AskMetafilter - "Is God Evil?" *
posted by troutfishing at 2:24 PM on December 26, 2003
posted by troutfishing at 2:24 PM on December 26, 2003
God is drunk. But not half as drunk as the trolls on Metafilter.
posted by zaelic at 2:39 PM on December 26, 2003
posted by zaelic at 2:39 PM on December 26, 2003
zaelic - If I wanted to troll, I could do far better than that comment, which was actually a pointed joke based on this ongoing Metatalk dispute. I beg your pardon. God is drunk, and blind as well - but I'm actually stone sober. You see - I was born this way! But I think the Iranian earthquake disaster does support the gnostic cosmology! I'd be in good company as a gnostic - Philip K. Dick became a type of gnostic as a result of a shattering spiritual experience which happened to him in march of 1974, and which R. Crumb illustrated in Weirdo #17, titled "The Religious Experience of Phillip K. Dick"
But my last comment there - on the money spent in the Iraq conflict vs. the amount this Iranian earthquake disaster will likely get - was quite serious.
posted by troutfishing at 4:50 PM on December 26, 2003
But my last comment there - on the money spent in the Iraq conflict vs. the amount this Iranian earthquake disaster will likely get - was quite serious.
posted by troutfishing at 4:50 PM on December 26, 2003
"Last night before she went to sleep she made me a drawing and kissed me four times," he said of his daughter, Nazenine, whose body he held in his arms. "When I asked, 'Why four kisses?' she said, 'Maybe I won't see you again, Papa,'" Karimi told an AP photographer, as tears streamed down his face. [AP]
posted by stbalbach at 5:39 PM on December 26, 2003
posted by stbalbach at 5:39 PM on December 26, 2003
Let that be the goodnight kiss of this thread.
posted by troutfishing at 6:02 PM on December 26, 2003
posted by troutfishing at 6:02 PM on December 26, 2003
The city of Bam was originally founded during the Sassanian period (224-637 AD) - it has seen much better and much worse than the current US's administration come and go. It is an unbelievable loss of our world's history of civilization. The thousands who died deserve our empathy, whether it is a detached feeling of loss and respect from westerners or a poignant reminder of the dusting of everything by entropy.
posted by jdaura at 6:29 PM on December 26, 2003
posted by jdaura at 6:29 PM on December 26, 2003
This is a tragedy of rare scale. A good friend of mine is a student from Iran, and I pray his family back home are okay, although he's from northern Iran so hopefully they are still in good health.
.
posted by Jimbob at 5:00 AM on December 27, 2003
.
posted by Jimbob at 5:00 AM on December 27, 2003
I defended myself by pointing out the hyprocrisy of my attackers.
Right. "I don't care about anybody but myself, therefore anyone who pretends to care about others is a hypocrite! I'm an asshole, therefore everyone is an asshole!" Whatever floats your boat. You are the world.
Iran Fears Quake Toll Could Hit 40,000
posted by languagehat at 8:43 AM on December 27, 2003
Right. "I don't care about anybody but myself, therefore anyone who pretends to care about others is a hypocrite! I'm an asshole, therefore everyone is an asshole!" Whatever floats your boat. You are the world.
Iran Fears Quake Toll Could Hit 40,000
posted by languagehat at 8:43 AM on December 27, 2003
Calling me an iconoclast is like telling the milkman that he's a cow.
This just in: twelve thousand more people die due to Gaia being pissed off at humanity, and who could blame her? Lots of death and destruction and mayhem and why you should actually care about it still. Film at eleven.
MetaFilter: Give your opinion. Get stuffed.
posted by ZachsMind at 7:39 PM on December 27, 2003
This just in: twelve thousand more people die due to Gaia being pissed off at humanity, and who could blame her? Lots of death and destruction and mayhem and why you should actually care about it still. Film at eleven.
MetaFilter: Give your opinion. Get stuffed.
posted by ZachsMind at 7:39 PM on December 27, 2003
keep going , youre nearly through to china.
posted by sgt.serenity at 10:09 PM on December 27, 2003
posted by sgt.serenity at 10:09 PM on December 27, 2003
Debka.com is reporting that the total of dead and injured is as high as 70,000. It also reports that the government of Iran has refused only Israel's offer of emergency assistance.
posted by ParisParamus at 5:35 AM on December 28, 2003
posted by ParisParamus at 5:35 AM on December 28, 2003
Apparently they didn't refuse U.S. Help. Double hate standards ? Yup I guess it's just the two administrations of Iran and Israel really don't like each other, expecially Iran administration doesn't like israel one. The problem as usual is not with the people but with their "representatives".
posted by elpapacito at 7:17 AM on December 28, 2003
posted by elpapacito at 7:17 AM on December 28, 2003
It just goes to show how f'd up f'd up really is.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:59 AM on December 28, 2003
posted by ParisParamus at 8:59 AM on December 28, 2003
« Older Martin Beck | Accident waiting to happen. Newer »
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posted by arnab at 5:55 AM on December 26, 2003